IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-10-01

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lardmanI wonder how long usb dvb-t tuners would last running all the time00:00
lardmanas compared with pci(-e) ones00:00
woglindedont know00:00
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MaceN8x0wouldnt that depend on how well they are made?00:02
MaceN8x0i'd guess the usb would be made out of cheap plastic components and would melt00:02
ShapeshifterSo, maemo5 will officially do m$ exchange syncing for the calendar, which means one can use it with google calendar, but apparently, this goes only one way, doesn't it? My dad tried it on the iphone, and events you enter on the device do not get synced back to google. Will this also be the case with the n900? CalDav on the other hand does two-way syncing, will the n900 calendar support that?00:05
woglindehm who gives his calendar voluntary to the fbi and cia?00:06
Shapeshifterwoglinde: suggest something better.00:06
woglindebetter in which case?00:07
woglindepaper and pen00:07
woglindeworks since long00:07
woglindefaster00:07
lardmanMaceN8x0: yeah00:07
woglindealways available00:07
woglindeno power is needing00:07
woglindeno internetconnection00:07
ShapeshifterI want my calendar, the same one, synced "real time", on my mobile phone, on the net (so that it's accessible from any machine), and on my lap top.00:07
Shapeshifterand I don't want to carry around a book, if I have a smart phone00:08
woglindesetup your own funambol server00:08
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Shapeshiftersounds interesting00:08
Shapeshifter"free 90 day" ??00:09
woglinde????00:09
woglindethere is gpl variant00:09
ShapeshifterI'm guessing that for using their servers00:09
woglinderight00:09
woglindebut thats the same problem as google00:09
Shapeshiftersure00:09
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woglindewonder why the will prison the first "terrotist" which planed is attacks with google calendar00:10
woglindeargs s/why/when00:10
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ShapeshifterI doubt the fbi and cia are interested in my schedule.00:11
Shapeshifterbut thanks, setting up my own funambol server looks like a valid option00:11
woglindeshapeshifter -> https://www.forge.funambol.org/download/00:11
woglindere florian00:12
woglindeShapeshifter there are lot of people which would be intressted in your calendar00:12
woglindebelieve me00:12
Shapeshifterwoglinde: sure, I'm reading already00:12
Shapeshifterwoglinde: apart from that, I doubt google gives them away00:12
woglindelol00:12
fralsanyone tried that funambol? looks pretty decent at first glance00:13
Shapeshifterwoglinde: and in my country, the internet is not (yet) cached and logged by the gov.00:13
ULS0mabybe happens like in : "when sysadmin rule the world", do you know it???00:13
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Shapeshifterwoglinde: well, so using funambol is fine. great. Do you know if the maemo5 calendar by nokia supports it? I kinda like the look of that calendar.00:15
lardmanhmm Hauppauge WinTV Nova-TD 500 Dual digital DVB-T PCI TV Tuner card £55, not bad00:15
florianre00:15
woglindeShapeshifter dont know but maybee some one will start a connector00:15
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woglindelardman bye two usb sticks for the same price00:16
woglindeargs buy00:16
woglindedamnit00:16
lardmanyeah, just not sure how reliable running usb sticks all the time will be00:16
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Shapeshifterwoglinde: do you have experience with funambol? If yes, is it updated often and does the config change frequently so that messing with it is required often? because I would rather dislike that.00:17
woglindeShapeshifter hm sorry00:17
woglindedidnt use it yet00:17
Shapeshifterok00:18
woglindebut as you see it has some community00:18
Shapeshifterwell it looks decent. I'll get into it when I get my n900.00:18
simulahas anyone gotten a ship notice for their pre-order n900?00:19
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woglindebarrelfish hm00:23
floriancan we add it to oe? ;)00:25
woglindelol00:25
woglindeit is a os00:25
woglindean00:25
woglindefrom ms and eth zurich00:25
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Shapeshiftermh. funambol is all java00:33
Shapeshifterit spawns like 50 java processes just when starting the server00:33
woglindehehe00:33
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Shapeshifterand it's a mess. doesn't attend to linux standarts at all.00:35
Shapeshifter:|00:35
Shapeshifterall because of java. it's so damn portable00:35
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Shapeshifterit's so damn broken >.>00:36
woglindesorry00:36
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Shapeshifterwoglinde: so you're against using gmail as well?00:37
Shapeshifteror any google service for that matter?00:38
Shapeshifterwoglinde: ah btw I just remembered Zimbra is a pretty nice server for mailing/calendar, that sort of stuff00:39
Shapeshifterhaven't used it myself but heard good things about it. now owned by yahoo...00:39
zerojaysimula: They aren't shipping yet. Not until at least Maemo Summit, I'm sure.00:40
woglindeShapeshifter yeah zimbra00:40
woglindeopenexchange could work too00:40
woglindebut some extenders cost00:40
woglindeyes I have my own mailserver00:41
simulathanks zerojay00:41
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Shapeshifteryay the "apple calendar server" runs fine on linux, written in python, open source, and for that specific purpose.00:46
Shapeshifterlooks pretty.00:46
Shapeshifterbut if I leave google calendar, I would just as well leave gmail. But then again, I find all the google services very neat. Also like the fact that I can use my gmail address for jabber just like that.00:46
Jaffazerojay: First version of Hermes about to hit extras-devel autobuilder00:47
woglindehahahaa ankh-morpork00:48
zerojayJaffa: Excellent.00:48
zerojayI'm glad I work with open source friendly people at my game company.00:49
woglindehm have to go00:49
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Jaffazerojay: First time I've built a C/Python hybrid package from scratch (rather than using mud); and you'll be the first non-Jaffa person to test it.00:50
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JaffaSo, please be gentle :)00:50
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zerojayGot a pixel artist to do the new icon for the cell bandwidth applet... got a sound designer working on doing alarm sounds for it... hehe. :)00:50
zerojayJaffa: No prob. :)00:50
JaffaHeh, cool00:50
JaffaMake sure they're in AUTHORS :)00:50
zerojayI guess I'll ask fiferboy about that then.00:51
zerojayLike I said on Twitter earlier... from Brainstorm to full package in 3 days... not too shabby. :)00:51
GeneralAntillesWe are some badass mofos. :D00:51
zerojayWhat other simplistic widgets are we missing?00:52
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zerojayCoordinating this thing was fun... time to get more projects off the ground. :)00:53
GeneralAntillesNow that I'm out, I'd say the "Community Council Tracking" widget. :P00:53
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zerojaylol00:54
Jaffazerojay: A _24_ style countdown timer. Complete with sfx.00:54
zerojaycountdown-home?00:54
zerojayOh.00:54
zerojayLED style?00:54
GeneralAntillesHehe, I had a 24 ringtone on my old 6682 for a while.00:55
Jaffazerojay: Yeah. countdown-home isn't useful when being geeky.00:55
* GeneralAntilles 's granola bars turned out the consistency of cookies.00:55
* Jaffa has a Cisco VoIP phone ringtone on his current device00:55
Jaffai.e. as used in 24 :)00:55
JaffaWorks well.00:55
JaffaIncoming SMS is a TNG communicator chirp </sad>00:55
lardmansilly low profile graphics cards that have full height pci back plates00:55
lardmanGeneralAntilles: been baking?00:56
lardmanwe do have food over in Europe00:56
GeneralAntilleslardman, failing @.00:56
GeneralAntillesBaking in my nemesis.00:56
JaffaBah. FAILED00:56
lardmanlike the blackbirds?00:57
lardmanor was that s/in/is ? ;)00:57
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GeneralAntilleslardman, ewgross.00:59
GeneralAntillesYeah, s/in/is/00:59
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lardmanhmm ~£200 + CPU, RAM, HDD00:59
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GeneralAntilleslardman, what CPU/RAM/HD?01:01
lardmanno idea yet, just totting up the case + mb + DVB-T + video card cosrs01:01
GeneralAntillesAh01:02
GeneralAntillesI see.01:02
lardmanmight make life easier to get a full size case really01:02
GeneralAntillesWhere you ordering from?01:02
lardmanlooking on ebuyer atm01:02
lardmanbut no idea01:02
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lardmanthough need to get the parts tomorrow or next day to avoid death01:02
GeneralAntillesWell, I was gonna look and you're definitely not getting it from Newegg. ;)01:02
lardmanno, not over here01:03
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GeneralAntilles£422.42 for i5 + Gigabyte MicroATX P55 + 1TB Maxtor01:06
plastunhello!01:06
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lardmanouch01:07
plastunis it true, that Maemo 3x, 4x doesn't support Qt3?01:07
GeneralAntilleslardman, I dunno how you guys pay those prices for electronics.01:07
lardmanit doesn't need that much uumph, will only be used to play movies and record TV01:07
lardmanpainfully ;)01:07
GeneralAntilleslol: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/16054501:07
Jaffazerojay: Build OK. Hermes is on its way to extras-devel. To get info on what it's doing, run /opt/hermes/bin/hermes from the X Terminal since feedback is limited to progress bar & # of contacts updated atm01:07
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lardmanhow big is your suitcase? ;)01:08
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Pound's weak at the moment, which isn't helping either. How much is that in USD?01:08
SpeedEvila quid is 1.81 or so IIRC01:09
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I could build an i5 machine for $80001:09
GeneralAntilles$1.6:£101:09
zerojayJaffa: Guess I'll make a backup just in case. :)01:09
Jaffazerojay: Probably wise :)01:09
SpeedEvilOh - it's gone down.01:09
SpeedEvil:/01:09
GeneralAntilles2.0GHz Mac mini is $59901:09
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I meant how much would you *pay* for such a mini?01:09
JaffaRight01:09
JaffaOuhc01:09
GeneralAntillesNo sales tax.01:09
SpeedEvilhttp://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/GBP/graph120.html01:10
SpeedEvilIt was heading up last I saw it.01:10
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GeneralAntillesYou guys should probably just start throwing yourself into the ocean until they lower prices. :P01:13
* lardman decides it probably isn't worth the effort to build something this time01:13
lardmanpah01:13
lardmanprices will go up as they'll raise taxes as fewer people are paying tax, and round we go again01:13
lardmanblood Labour scumbags01:13
lardmanbloody01:13
lardmanpardon my French01:14
zerojayLike The Matrix says...01:14
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zerojaySwearing in French is like wiping your ass with silk.01:14
lardmanlol01:14
zerojaybbs01:15
lardmanwell if nothing else, it's good to see that Linux compatible DVB-T tuners are reasonably cheap now: e.g. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_WinTV_Nova-T_500_PCI (£55)01:15
derflardman: You have to convince them to stop spending before there's a hope of getting them to stop taxing.01:15
ShadowJKVAT is already at the lowest EU allows :)01:16
lardmanyeah, no way to do that though, until they lose power and then we'll still have to pay of their debts01:16
GeneralAntilleslol01:16
GeneralAntillesYou guys fucked yourselves so hard.01:16
GeneralAntillesThat the EU ALLOWS.01:16
GeneralAntillesHa!01:16
lardmanthat was a mistake, lost VAT revenues and realistically it didn't increase spending01:16
derfGeneralAntilles: It's not like we're any better.01:16
GeneralAntillesderf, well, at least there's no EU dictating our sales tax.01:16
ShadowJKlardman, yeah I get the impression there isn't much opposition to raising it back to where it was01:16
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Why? It's just another elected body.01:16
GeneralAntillesderf, and if I can't take solace in my feelings of superiority over Europeans what have I got? ;)01:17
lardmanShadowJK: bit late now though01:17
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Cheaper electronic goods?01:17
lardmanlol01:17
GeneralAntillesOh, right, those.01:17
* GeneralAntilles chuckles to himself.01:17
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ShadowJKmy relatives in the US apparently pay about as much in tax as I do :-)01:17
GeneralAntillesderf, really, when it comes down to it, we've at least still got our weapons.01:18
derfGeneralAntilles: Fat lot of good they'll do us.01:18
lardmanand you're not bothered who you piss off using them ;)01:18
derfYou're gonna go after the Feds with a few semi-automatic rifles?01:18
lardmanyou also have the dubious honour of almost everyone on Earth hating you for either going in with guns blazing, or not listening to anything01:19
lardmanthough that is probably Bush's fault01:19
derfYou might have a chance if they hadn't effectively repealed Posse Comitatus.01:19
mavhcblame bush/canada01:19
GeneralAntillesderf, what, they gonna use the military against us?01:19
derfGeneralAntilles: Bush certainly planned to.01:19
lardmanmavhc: lol @ Canada jibe01:19
derfWhere by "Bush" I mean "Cheney".01:19
GeneralAntillesI wish them the best of luck.01:19
mavhcthe pupetmaster has become the puppet01:20
GeneralAntilleslardman, it's so popular to hate Americans nowadays that even Americans do it.01:20
lardman:)01:20
lardmanI saw a wonderful editorial in the Times today, let me see if I can find it for you01:20
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GeneralAntillesCommie Rag01:21
mavhcwhich the times?01:21
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lardmanno, that's the Sun, and even they are voting Tory now01:21
GeneralAntillesDoes it matter? ;)01:21
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lardmanmavhc: there is online one01:21
lardmanThe Times, all in the name01:22
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lardmannone of this New York or other out of the way places in the name01:22
JaffaPfft. It's a centre-right broadsheet owned and run by a US/Australian. Not much commie about them01:22
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, it's all about what you define as "center"01:22
derfJaffa: Your "centre-right" is our "communists".01:22
Jaffalardman: http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2009/09/how-far-do-you-have-to-drive-for-a-mcdonalds.html ?01:22
lardmanderf: that is true :)01:23
Jaffaderf: That's cos your country is seriously FUBAR01:23
Jaffa:-p01:23
lardmanJaffa: no, was about Obama being over educated and over-estimating the abilities of his populace01:23
derfJaffa: You're preacing to the choir.01:23
derf*preaching01:23
lardmanhttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6854498.ece01:23
GeneralAntillesderf++01:23
GeneralAntillesJaffa, only I suspect we're disagreed about exactly what's FUBAR about it.01:24
derfOne thing I've found talking American politics abroad: it's very boring, because everyone agrees.01:24
lardmanHis problem is being overeducated. He doesn’t realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is.01:24
lardmanthat was the quote01:24
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Jaffalardman: From Gore Vidal? He seems to have a column/interview in the online bit today. But he's never been a fan of Obama (AFAICT from the More4 stings)01:24
lardmanyeah, but still quite funny anyway01:25
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Jaffahttp://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6854221.ece01:25
* lardman is worried about Jaffa's reading01:25
lardmanhas anyone else had the misfortune of being on the GSoC mentors ml?01:26
JaffaNo, but I got a t-shirt from Google01:27
lardmannever has a list had so much crud go through it01:27
lardmanme too01:27
derflardman: I intentionally don't subscribe, every year.01:27
Jaffalardman: Just found it off the timesonline.co.uk front page. Honest.01:27
lardmansomeone made a comment about pulling at the get-together and something like 200 emails have gone back and forward berating this chap01:27
* GeneralAntilles gave the t-shirt to his sister.01:27
lardmanJaffa: we'll believe you this time01:27
GeneralAntillesPublic education has done its job in the US.01:28
* lardman keeps quite about the fact he saves the fashion section and brings it home (for his wife), but invariable forgets and ends up with a week's worth in his bag01:28
mavhcyou can only be over educated for low end jobs01:28
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derfI don't know. I don't think the American populace is as dumb as everyone thinks.01:30
lardmanI don't know, you only tend to meet those who've escaped over here ;)01:30
derfCertainly there are extreme examples, and they make the best stories, so that's what people remember.01:30
mavhcevery country has retards, some countries put their retards on tv, only usa then exports those tv shows01:31
GeneralAntillesThe smart people all seem to suffer from extreme cognitive disconnect.01:31
derfmavhc: And you guys watch 'em :).01:31
mavhcretards are funny01:31
derfGeneralAntilles: That's true of everyone everywhere.01:31
Jaffamavhc: America must be one of the only G20 countries to put a retard *in charge* though.01:31
derfAt least in any nation with public schooling.01:32
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* Jaffa thinks of others. Berlusconi's a fool, but not a retard.01:32
derfJaffa: Well, what's better, having a retard in charge, or someone competent and malicious?01:32
lardmanno, the Italian populace take that one tho01:32
mavhcmost of them probably believe they have an invisible friend in the sky01:32
Jaffaderf: Depends who they're malicious against ;-)01:33
derfPeople in power are usually malicious against anyone who can threaten their power.01:33
JaffaErgo, Bush could have been a retard *and* malicious01:34
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derfBush would have been far more destructive if he hadn't been so incompetent.01:34
GeneralAntillesThey're all scum.01:34
derfAnd I don't mean just the man, but his entire administration.01:34
GeneralAntillesWhy bother trying to decide who is scummier?01:34
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pupnikGeneralAntilles: that is the big distraction that democracy provides01:41
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mavhcdemocracy is like wikipedia, it sucks, but everything else sucks worse01:42
GeneralAntillespupnik, sadly they've succeeded completely in playing us off against each other to their own gain.01:42
mavhcwe are easily manipulated01:43
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SpeedEvilnation-states are a comparatively recent innovation.01:45
SpeedEvilBut the alternatives are worse01:45
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JaffaYay, it's launched: http://www.alfav5.com/01:50
lardman?01:51
lardmanI thought it was a link to a car, seems now01:51
lardmannot01:51
JaffaOver 2 years of my life at work as senior architect01:51
* Jaffa 's baby.01:51
lardmanwell congrats :)01:52
Pavlovconsulting websitE?01:52
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JaffaAnd tomorrow I get to go back into work and carry on on phase 2 :)01:53
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SpeedEvilJaffa: Collect underpants?01:54
JaffaSpeedEvil: Reciprocating splines?01:55
Pavlovah, the NA site isn't showing it01:55
JaffaPavlov: Ah, no - NA launch next year.01:55
JaffaThe vagaries of US leasing, with per diem rental structures.01:56
pupnik"In all areas, from new-business validation and credit evaluation to collections management, Business Rules Engine helps you achieve peak process performance by applying automatic rules in logic-intensive areas of asset finance - ensuring greater efficiency and repeatable, consistent decisions, and allowing more effective use of key resources.01:56
pupnikwow01:56
JaffaAbso-sodding-lutely˙.01:56
lbtdoesn't display in firefox on linux Jaffa01:57
lbtthat's a big sector you're missing there...01:57
lbt;)01:57
JaffaMarketing stuff's great. Even more fun when you have to say that to a c lient01:57
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Jaffalbt: WorksForMe01:57
Jaffalbt: Define "doesn't work"?01:57
lbtmouse over select a region01:57
lbtthe graphic is truncated01:58
Jaffalbt: current URL?01:58
lbtand I get "ente"01:58
lbthttp://www.chpconsulting.com/01:58
Jaffalbt: Better if you press Ctrl-0?01:58
lbtno01:59
JaffaBah. Can you send me a screenshot? I'll pass it on to our marketing dept01:59
lbtwilldo01:59
* Jaffa worries more about making the damned thing work01:59
Jaffalbt: ta muchly01:59
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lardmangetting late, off to bed02:02
lardmannight all02:02
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JaffaGood plan02:02
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bobbyd_I suppose you guys have seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0wbLaMXeu402:03
bobbyd_linux ftw :)02:03
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PavlovJaffa: anyways, very cool.  always exciting to ship software02:06
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bobbydso yeah02:09
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bobbydthis kind of thing is why I'm buying an n900 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0wbLaMXeu402:09
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lbtnight all02:15
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zerojay Jaffa: Bad news. "Something went wrong: globalname "FacebookError" is not defined".02:19
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etrunkogarage is downnn02:20
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zerojaybobbyd: While that's cool, it would be even neater having location-based netplay. ;)02:24
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bobbydzerojay: possible I suppose via wifi02:38
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xnt14hello world :P02:39
xnt14~seen b-man1602:39
infobotb-man16 <n=b-man16@pool-98-115-79-211.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 41m 22s ago, saying: 'xD'.02:39
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Guest3953_887who knows about android on the 810?02:40
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purevolanyone here have an n810?02:40
purevoli would like to load android on my n810, and was hoping someone here could point me to the right resources02:42
purevolive seen a couple readmes, but nothing thorough or recent02:42
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luke-jrpurevol: good luck03:52
lcukluke-jr, you messaged me earlier (before my irc died) i believe i should thank you03:54
Tadthebuilderlcuk, just wanted to say that Im sorry to hear what happened to you today.03:56
lcukmmm me too03:56
lcuki didnt expect that final kick03:56
Tadthebuilderyeah real bummer.03:57
TadthebuilderLove your stuff, I donated a little money to you, cannot afford much though (dont get paid much) but thought Id try to help03:58
lcukdid you get your fullscreen working03:58
Tadthebuilderyes I did03:58
TadthebuilderI love it!!!03:58
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lcukgood, thats the most important part03:58
TadthebuilderIts awesome03:58
rm_youlcuk:03:58
Tadthebuilder(though some of the stuff really really confuses me)03:58
lcukyeah, and it can only get better03:58
* lcuk is confused too03:58
lcukhi rm_you03:58
lcukTadthebuilder, i have had so much to do, a lot is still test over final form03:59
Tadthebuilderah that might explain03:59
rm_youlcuk: as root: dsmetest -l <number between 1 and 127 or possibly 255>03:59
Tadthebuilderjumptoconlcusions03:59
rm_youor03:59
lcukits in the process of being boiled down (or was) now that i know the library does what i need03:59
lcukTadthebuilder :D let me find the actual reference..04:00
rm_youchroot to the initfs and then run that04:00
rm_youlcuk: /usr/sbin/chroot /mnt/initfs/ dsmetest -l 104:00
rm_yousee if it changes the brightness on your tablet to like... low04:00
lcukrm_you, got a more serious issue: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3225304:02
rm_youdayum <_<04:03
TadthebuilderOh I have a question for you lcuk about future potential of liqbase...04:04
Tadthebuilderwill you be adding the ebook reading thing you had on the first one?04:05
Tadthebuilderbecause that would be really nice to hit the button and take notes over top of an ebook that I was reading04:05
SpeedEvil'to infinity and beyond!'04:05
lcukTadthebuilder, the idea is to add everything back in04:06
Tadthebuilderah okay04:06
lcukbut as standalone apps04:06
Tadthebuildermakes sense04:06
lcukso users can run what they want04:07
lcukand not have the whole liqbase04:07
lcukif they just use one part04:07
lcuknow, notice in the top right corner04:07
Tadthebuilderah also this is open source so expendable by others correct?04:07
lcuktheres a pencil..04:07
Tadthebuilderyes04:07
TadthebuilderI love that pencil04:07
lcukwhat does it do04:07
Tadthebuilderif I click it04:07
Tadthebuilderit allows me take notes concerning whatever im looking at04:07
Tadthebuilderat first04:07
TadthebuilderI thought It would copy the screen04:07
Tadthebuilderthen let me draw on it04:07
Tadthebuilderbut it doesnt04:07
Tadthebuilderbut it is still handy04:07
lcuk(its been specially designed by the good folks at digia btw)04:08
lcukit has capability to trace over any screen04:08
Tadthebuilder(not sure what digia is)04:08
Tadthebuilderyes04:08
lcukyes, i should save the screenshot along with it too04:08
Tadthebuilderthat is what i meant in less words04:08
Tadthebuilderah so future iterations may save the screen shot as well?04:08
lcuki want to draw silly faces on photographs :£04:08
lcukyes04:08
Tadthebuilderhaha04:08
lcukthe bottom right corner has a button called "pic"04:08
lcukit saves a direct screenshot04:09
lcukits like the inverted postcard app04:09
lcuksometimes you need to draw a circle around something and say "wtf"04:09
TadthebuilderI do not see anything in the bottom right corner...04:09
lcukother times, you want to say hello mum04:09
Tadthebuilderor04:09
Tadthebuilderis that future04:09
Tadthebuilderhaha04:09
lcukthat hsould eb there when you are tracing04:09
lcuk-major typos04:09
lcukyou might not have it cos the build is a little old04:10
Tadthebuilderah okay04:10
Tadthebuildernope04:10
Tadthebuilderits there found it04:10
rm_youlcuk: well, i hope you can come T_T04:10
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lcukrm_you, do i need to chroot things? seriously?04:10
rm_youi believe so04:10
lcukyikes04:10
Tadthebuilderwell Lcuk thankyou so much for the app it is awesome.04:10
rm_youit's part of initfs04:10
lcukwill it break stuff04:10
rm_youno04:11
lcukTadthebuilder, :) its hopefully only just getting started04:11
rm_youyou're just loading into a different environment04:11
lcuki hope this hiccup with funding doesnt stop me for too long04:11
TadthebuilderIf it wont offend you is it cool if I pray that you find a job?04:11
rm_youlcuk: i know like three companies in Texas that would hire you :P if you want to hang out here :P04:11
lcukTadthebuilder, i would be honoured :) every little helps right now04:11
lcukand i was thinking last night04:11
rm_youlcuk: cost of living in San Antonio is like... ridiculously low :P04:11
lcuki would perhaps like to have a talk with you at some point in the very near future04:12
Tadthebuilderme?04:12
lcukyes :) send me a quick "hi" email and ill reply04:12
lcukliquid@gmail.com04:12
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Tadthebuilderwill do man04:13
lcuk:) cool04:13
TadthebuilderI gotta head out though now. But ill be praying for you04:13
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Tadthebuilderhave a wonderful night. Hope you can still get to amsterdam.04:13
TadthebuilderTalk to you later04:13
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lcukme too! thanks tad04:13
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lcukrm_you, just like this04:14
lcuk/usr/sbin/chroot /mnt/initfs/ dsmetest -l 104:14
lcukand it wont break stuff04:14
Pavlovlcuk: where is the latest liqbase source?04:14
Macernobody wants to live in texas04:14
lcukhttp://github.com/lcuk04:14
Macerother than texans04:14
Macerhaha04:14
rm_youlol04:16
rm_youI'm from WA ::P04:16
rm_youlcuk: it doesn04:16
rm_youdoesn't break things, no04:16
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=290762&highlight=game#post290762 found it!04:18
luke-jrlcuk: github ftl04:19
lcukwhy, it works from maemo04:20
lcukdirectly04:20
luke-jrproprietary04:20
lcukbut i cant use maemo garage from maemo device yet :$04:21
lcukso it will suffice04:21
lcukuntil a lesser evil comes about and i can work in the garage in piece :)04:21
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luke-jrlcuk: Gitorious04:25
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lcukluke-jr, dont call me names ;(04:34
lcuki know what you mean tho04:34
lcukbut im not moving now it04:34
lcukits a heartache04:34
luke-jrwhat?04:35
luke-jrhow is it a heartache04:35
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luke-jryou just push somewhere else04:35
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bobbydsoooo04:44
bobbydwhat's the latest word on USB OTG?04:44
luke-jrso anyone have Commander Keen working  yet?04:44
bobbydI read that it was definitely out, then thre was confusion, then someone said it was in, same with the digital compass04:45
bobbydfor the n900 of course :)04:45
luke-jrbobbyd: N810 has OTG so I can't imagine N900 lacks it04:46
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bobbydluke-jr: I read that they disabled it at the last moment because it wouldn't work with usb charging04:48
lcukluke-jr, theres a long discussion on tmo04:49
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bobbydluke-jr: if it does have it then I'll be able to use my korg nanokey with it :)04:49
bobbydwhich would possibly make my life04:50
bobbydand then there's the digital compass, I've seen many conflicting reports about that04:50
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Jason404what is USB OTG?04:52
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lcukJason404, its a mobile version of USB04:52
lcukdesigned to allow small devices to be hosts04:53
lcukbut using less power than usual04:53
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Jason404lcuk:  thanks.  no diffrerence from a user perspective compared to a computer then?04:53
lcuknot really04:53
lcukapart from they would always try to plug in hair dryers and stuff04:53
lcukand complain when there wasnt enough current04:53
Jason404ah ic.  no self powered 2.5" HDD then?04:54
bobbydJason404: devices are limited to a vary small amount of power like lcuk says, 100milliamps i think04:54
Jason404of course04:54
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bobbydI'm really excited about the n900 as a portable music device04:57
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bobbydlots of potential there I think04:57
bobbydmusic creation I mean :)04:57
lcukbobbyd, you should be really excited about it for all sorts of things04:57
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz004:57
lcukjamming without instruments04:58
lcuktable top drumming brought to life :)04:58
bobbydusing the accelerometers?04:59
lcukyeah04:59
bobbydman I don't know the half of what's going on!04:59
bobbydwhat's the app they're running?04:59
lcukits one of the interactions in liqbase05:00
lcukcalled liqflow05:00
bobbydwill that be available for people to download?05:00
lcuknice big presentation about it http://mynokiablog.com/2009/09/15/video-nokia-n900-presentation-with-gary-birkett-and-liqbase/05:00
lcukyeah - its in maemo-extras now05:00
bobbydta05:00
lcukruns on n8x005:00
bobbydheh05:00
lcukbut better on n90005:00
lcukextras-devel sorry05:00
bobbydI don't think I'm going to be able to get anything done once I get this05:00
lcukits not quite ready05:00
Jason404how come the screens were showing a contiguous image?05:01
lcukJason404, magic05:01
Jason404ic05:01
lcukthe real networked version will be available if i get to the summit05:01
Jason404N900 has some good specs then05:01
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3225305:01
lcukbut im not going to the summit05:01
lcukand im stopping work on stuff05:01
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lcuki hada bombshell this evening05:02
bobbydJason404: same processor and 3d hardware as the iPhone 3G05:02
Jason404yes, i read that earlier.  I am in a similar boat, as an architect05:02
bobbydlcuk: job problems?05:02
lcuka lot of very good folks in the community have stepped up to help and we shall see how it goes05:02
Jason404bobbyd: yeah, I know05:02
lcukbobbyd, very much so05:02
lcuki knew the job loss was coming, but the final kick i got today really pissed on everything05:03
bobbydlots of places are shite05:03
bobbydwhat are your main skills?05:03
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bobbydand you can take your boss to an industrial tribunal and get your money back05:04
lcukhttp://www.linkedin.com/pub/gary-birkett/16/550/41b05:04
SpeedEvillcuk: :(05:04
bobbydI did that with a previous employer05:04
lcukit wont help, in 4 days time my bills go out05:04
SpeedEvillcuk: The only opening I have at the moment is someone to shovel a bit of gravel.05:04
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elekt<305:05
zerojay?05:05
elektsaw the preview for 505:06
bobbydlcuk: you can talk to your bank, they are usually willing to help you out if you give them notice up front05:06
elektshould work on n800, yes?05:06
luke-jrelekt: not a chance.05:06
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elekt:( why05:06
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lcukbobbyd, i think i will manage it05:06
luke-jrelekt: N8x0 haven't been supported by Nokia for over a year05:06
lcukbut the bank will not help05:06
bobbydok :/05:06
lcukbecause i have no job right now05:06
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elektyeah but i had debian installed on n800, i don't think maemo5 is such a big stretch05:07
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elekteven if not supported05:07
luke-jrelekt: Maemo 5 requires OpenGL ES at least05:07
bobbydlcuk: well, I asked the bank for an overdraft to cover the time inbetween jobs and they gave me it05:07
elektouch05:07
* lcuk has been cradled in the boxem of the best in the community and thinks it can work05:07
zerojayelekt: Mer is your best bet.05:07
bobbydlcuk: not saying you should do that, just relating my experience05:07
elektmer?05:07
luke-jrelekt: I run Gentoo.05:07
lcukboxom05:07
lcukhowever its spelt05:07
elekton n800?05:07
zerojayelekt: Yes.05:08
zerojaylcuk: Bosom? lol05:08
elektthat is freakin awesome05:08
lcukyes zerojay thank you05:08
elektis it usable?05:08
bobbydlcuk: you're welcome to apply to my place of work : www.realtimeworlds.com05:08
* lcuk rests in zerojay's bosom05:08
luke-jrelekt: depends on what you want to do05:08
bobbydwe have roles for non-games developers05:08
zerojayMer is not Maemo 5. It is basically a new Ubuntu based distro that is attempting to bring Fremantle features and so on.05:08
luke-jrelekt: and I have a N81005:08
elekt:(05:08
elektthis is so sad i feel like going to a casino and try to win money for an n90005:09
luke-jrelekt: KDE is barely startable05:09
luke-jrelekt: personally, I'm holding out for an open device.05:09
zerojayelekt: You feel like that now... imagine after having it in your hands. lol05:09
luke-jrmight settle for N900 or some HTC if I can live without the closed features05:09
elektwhat's closed in n900?05:10
elektanything nw on the sound front?05:10
elektnew05:10
elektas in better rate and latency for sound in?05:10
zerojayIt's using PulseAudio now.05:10
zerojayInstead of ESD.05:10
luke-jrM4 used ESD? :/05:10
zerojayThink so.05:11
elektdamn05:11
elektthere's a kontori video on engadget, i thought i'd come catch up05:11
elektthey're making fun of the baby crying somewere offscreen while he's running snes05:12
GeneralAntilleselekt, by "closed" luke-jr of course means, a userspace library for OpenGL ES, cellular functionality and possibly GPS.05:12
elekthi GA05:12
luke-jrof course, I don't expect to see open hardware anytime soob05:12
GeneralAntillesPlus battery charging.05:12
luke-jrsoon*05:12
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luke-jrGeneralAntilles: you have a list?05:12
zerojayMedia Player UI.05:12
GeneralAntillesYes, Nokia sent me this nice poster of it. :roll:05:13
GeneralAntilleszerojay, I wasn't going to get into userspace stuff for hardware. ;)05:13
zerojay:)05:13
elekti've only been using my n80 to read pdfs for the last few months. and run wikipedia offline. but i was hoping i'd get to play with m505:14
timelessdoes unsupported first party hardwae count as interesting?05:14
SpeedEvilPDFs are stupid05:14
bobbydI don't care if there are parts I can't play with, what I can play with! proper support for all hardware under linux wil be great thanks :D05:14
zerojaytimeless: Yes.05:14
SpeedEvil(for reading with small devices)05:14
bobbydit'll probably be one of the most user-friendly linux devices ever made05:14
SpeedEviltivo05:15
zerojayIt is.05:15
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, PDFs are generally stupid period for the vast majority of the applications to which they are put.05:15
elektspeedevil - better than lugging around a laptop just for that05:15
bobbydSpeedEvil: ok, tivo :)05:15
SpeedEvilelekt: pdf on a 3.5" screen though - shoot me now.05:15
bobbyd"one of"05:15
elektworks well05:15
elektbetween the maemo reader and evince, it's pretty comfy05:15
elekt+ good battery life if you're offline05:16
SpeedEvilpdf is not a sane format for when you need to actually boost the font to something readable and have it rewrap05:16
elektright, but if you read books, you don't wanna screw with the formatting05:16
elektat least i don't05:17
luke-jrtimeless: ?05:17
timelessyes?05:17
SpeedEvilAnd you can sanely read a normal book on a 3.5" display without rewrapping it?05:17
luke-jrSpeedEvil: PDF is a sane format. It just isn't for what you said.05:17
elektyup05:17
luke-jrtimeless: I don't understand your question05:17
SpeedEvilI tend to wind up the font size a lot for that sort of use.05:18
bobbydlcuk: did you write the graphics display for the 1.0 thing?05:18
MaceN8x0damn pookie05:18
* timeless cries05:18
timelessbad browser05:18
MaceN8x0i'm watching the closer05:18
elektif it's a small font yyou can zoom in as long as it doesn't cut anything off horizontally05:19
elektthen you scll down05:19
elektscroll05:19
MaceN8x0are gangs so stupid that they plaster the whole murder over the walls05:19
elekti've been doing it for a few months05:19
zerojaytimeless: No cookie?05:19
elekti forget wat my nick used to be here.05:19
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timelesswell, the crash reporter gave me a modal cookie05:19
luke-jrzerojay: you can get plenty of cookies on Nokia's website I'm sure05:19
SpeedEvilelekt: Sure - but when the publication gets to the width of the screen and you can't see it - pdf is broken05:19
SpeedEvilelekt; sometimes it's just not possible to hold the device up to your face.05:20
luke-jrSpeedEvil: not broken, just not for that purpose05:20
luke-jrPDF is strictly for printing05:20
n800nyeah, i mean i wouldn't read anything other than text05:20
n800ngiant illustrations05:20
SpeedEvilBroken for the distribution of text for reading on devices with greatly varying screen sizes.05:20
SpeedEvilFor printing at one format - just fine.05:21
luke-jrthat's what PDF is for05:21
SpeedEvilscreen sizes, or users with varying vision05:21
timelessbrowser crashed again05:21
luke-jrtry to use an apple as a baseball, and it obviously won't work too well05:21
n800nthat's what it WAS for05:21
n800nnow it's for me to read05:21
zerojaytimeless: I haven't had more than 2 crashes so far in about two weeks.05:21
luke-jrzerojay: you have a N900?05:22
timelessi think i have a reproducible one :o05:22
luke-jrsomeone w/ a N900: can I have a shell account to script up a list of non-free pkgs? :p05:22
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, they have a couple of N900s with time available. http://forum.nokia.com/rda05:23
n800nwell thanks for the horrible news05:23
n800nand good luck05:23
zerojayRDA is awesome.05:23
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lcuki first experienced fremantle on my n810.  using vnc from qwertys scratchbox !05:24
* bobbyd signs up for RDA05:27
* luke-jr races bobbyd05:27
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lcukbut luke-jr - its closed source! :p05:29
luke-jrlcuk: that's exactly what I aim to investigate05:30
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bobbydI want to see if my opengl es stuff works on the real hardware :)05:31
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luke-jrGeneralAntilles: RDA fails06:29
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luke-jr"Configuration check result: Fail"06:29
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pupnikAmazing how in 2009, game developers/artists still haven't figured out how trees look near the ground...   http://www.nordichardware.com/skrivelser_img/560/shad.jpg06:50
zerojayThey know. It's a detail that gets omitted because... well... who cares?06:51
zerojayWhy render a whole ton more polys for a detail almost no one notices?06:52
lcuklol zerojay obviously pupnik cares06:54
pupnikhttp://www.ohgizmo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/trespasser_1.jpg   Trespassed 3D game - 1997 or smth06:55
lcukholy crap pupnik that tree looks so bad i could swear it looks like a dinosaur06:56
pupnik:)06:56
GeneralAntilleszerojay, I don't buy that.06:57
zerojayGeneralAntilles: You don't have to. It's just the truth. :)06:57
GeneralAntilleszerojay, I'm pretty sure they've never been outdoors and they just don't know. :P06:57
zerojaylol06:57
zerojayThere's other details that are ignored for the sake of performance.06:57
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zerojaydoorframes for one.06:58
zerojayThough there's far less of an argument for that one.06:58
GeneralAntillesActually, I'm sad to report that graphics don't really feel all that much better with my 2004-to-2009 upgrade. :\06:58
zerojayHell, a lot of the progress bars in videogames are completely fake even.06:58
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GeneralAntillesAw http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40199&start=9007:02
GeneralAntillesThis guy totally kicks Eldar's ass.07:02
zerojayEldar just likes stirring up shit.07:03
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chxSo the OpenPandora is shipping at last!@07:12
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GeneralAntillesNoooo!07:12
chxhaha why?07:13
GeneralAntillesN900 appears to have lost.07:13
GeneralAntillesThough we wont call it until somebody signs for a package. ;)07:13
chxLOL07:13
chxYou had a race between two almost-vaporware devices?07:14
chxOne backed by the biggest mobile company07:14
GeneralAntillesN900 isn't vaporware.07:14
microlithuntil the openpandaora can make a phone call the N900 wins :)07:14
chxThe other by three or so hackers?07:14
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GeneralAntillesNokia's looking at about a month between announcement and release.07:14
GeneralAntillesOpenPandora is looking at 2 years.07:14
chxmicrolith: does it have two SDHC slots?07:14
chxanyways07:14
chxi am delighted07:15
microlithChanServ: can you get a cdma connector in an SDIO formfactor? :)07:15
chxit's great to see the OP comign to market finally07:15
microlithopenpandora is pretty cool07:15
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microlithwith luck there'll be crosstalk due to the similarity between the devices07:16
chxmicrolith: i would not be surprised if a CDMA phone would exist in SDIO07:16
zerojayWe've heard all the "Pandora is shipping!" stuff so many times before. As far as I know, they haven't even gone through FCC yet.07:16
chxmicrolith: i do know there were GPRS modems07:16
GeneralAntillesNot even through FCC.07:16
GeneralAntillesI'd say it's a ways from "shipping"07:16
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.openpandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=2&lang=en07:16
zerojayYeah... probably won't go out this year.07:17
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chxthats not what the newsletter said07:18
chxIn October the factory will start to populate 4000 Pandora PCBs, this will be a slow process at first07:18
chxwhich will become substantially faster after the initial 800.07:18
chxAs the PCBs are completed, they are tested then put in to cases, boxed up and shipped out to you.07:18
GeneralAntillesYeah, not shipped yet.07:18
GeneralAntillesFCC cert has to happen first.07:18
chxI am fairly sure it will ship Oct/Nov. I am an optimist :)07:19
zerojayFCC = at least a month on it's own.07:20
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zerojayI was an optimist about Pandora... a year ago.07:21
k-szeenix: hey, just added glib main loop integration to ecore, so it is possible to use gupnp from efl apps easily07:21
zerojayAnd each time they said "next month!" nothing.07:21
k-szeenix: rygel as well, of course :-)07:21
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johnxxmornin'07:36
GeneralAntillesImposter!07:36
Vulcanisthats what she said07:36
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* johnx imposterates more betterer07:39
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johnxoh yeah! I keep forgetting I have a pandora on pre-order :)07:42
pupniki won't let evildragon forget :)07:45
pupnikhttp://i36.tinypic.com/2q2e4hi.jpg  << HAAHAAHAH  a pic of the new ATI 5870, endorsed by Batman and Robin07:45
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GeneralAntillesEhehe07:45
johnxthe trick to dealing with delays is treating the money as gone, then you can be surprised if they actually ship07:46
Vulcanisthe good batman, or the bad batman?07:46
johnxthe old batman07:47
Vulcanisthats the good one07:47
johnxwell, then there was the middle batman (batman forever) and the new batman (batman begins)07:48
GeneralAntillesDark Knight rocks my world.07:50
luke-jrin the 2 years the pandora has been pending, have they decreased the price appropriately? :p07:50
johnxluke-jr, nah, just bumped the specs :)07:50
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GeneralAntillesThey need the 45nm OMAP3530.07:55
johnxlittle late in the game for that :P07:56
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johnxthe strange thing is that the part they're using was up-specced by TI from 600MHz to 720MHz07:57
johnxthough I wonder if their case design will cope with the increased heat07:57
luke-jrthey should up the RAM07:57
johnxthey did07:57
luke-jrto 51207:57
johnxthey already have final boards coming off the assembly line...so, no07:58
luke-jr:(07:58
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johnxyeah, really is a bummer having final production in progress :P07:58
GeneralAntillesIt's 45nm, so everything else should mostly bet he same.07:58
luke-jrwhy is embedded not like desktops in this regard?07:58
luke-jrjust swap a chip to upgrade RAM07:59
johnxluke-jr, are you serious?07:59
GeneralAntilleslol07:59
luke-jryeah, is there a reason for that?07:59
GeneralAntillesThe mobile modularity proponents always crack me up.07:59
luke-jrI mean, obviously it's probably soldered on07:59
luke-jrbut I mean just change the design07:59
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, the SoC and RAM/NAND are one package.07:59
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: how did they upgrade the RAM to 256 if it's inside the SoC?07:59
johnxluke-jr, it's a PoP. they just solder the whole RAM/NAND/CPU onto the board08:00
GeneralAntillesIt's on top of the SoC.08:00
luke-jrand they can't just get a PoP with more RAM?08:00
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GeneralAntilles512MB RAM PoP aren't really available.08:00
GeneralAntillesAt least the last time I asked about it.08:00
luke-jri c08:00
luke-jrso it's an OMAP limitation for now08:01
GeneralAntillesBesides, more RAM == more cost and more power consumption.08:01
luke-jrsignificantly?08:01
GeneralAntillesSince 512MB PoPs are barely available, yeah.08:01
johnxthey switched PoPs at a really late stage, but it was pin compatible08:01
johnxdunno if there is a similar cost, pin-compat 512MB PoP08:01
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GeneralAntillesPins shouldn't be an issue.08:03
GeneralAntillesBut cost definitely will.08:03
johnxwell, the big thing was they didn't have to do any  work at all on the board08:03
GeneralAntillesWhich is one of the big advantages of the PoP arrangement.08:04
GeneralAntillesI love the Woot descriptions.08:06
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* RST38h moos08:06
tigerthttp://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/3970357641/in/pool-1184299@N2408:06
tigertschweeeet camera <308:06
RST38hfor macros, anyway08:06
johnxtigert, that rocks08:07
GeneralAntillesYeah, anything can look good at that resolution. :P08:07
RST38hNot anything08:07
johnxyup, RST38h will still look like RST38h :D08:07
GeneralAntillesTrue enough, anything but the N8x0 cameras.08:07
RST38hBut N900's camera seems to handle macro pretty well08:07
johnxGeneralAntilles, they have cameras? I thought it was some kind of noise generator...08:07
tigertit focuses about 10cm away08:08
RST38hSamsung or low end Panasonic will suck too =)08:08
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yeah, I'm pretty sure Nokia sourced the parts for RNG then figured "webcam" would make for good box specs.08:08
* RST38h wonders what RST38h looks like08:08
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johnxhttp://images.google.com/images?&q=RST38h&btnG=Search+Images08:09
johnxit's a type of calculator it appears08:10
GeneralAntilleswazd brand?08:10
RST38hjohnx: Well, it got at least one image right08:10
johnxyeah, the wazd RST38h. I think it's a russian ti83 knock off08:10
RST38hjohnx: Although it is a hard query for Google, given that RST38h is an assembler instruction08:10
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johnxbut doing an image search helps :)08:11
luke-jrRST38h: for what architecture? O.o08:11
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RST38hZ8008:11
* luke-jr certainly has never seen anything like that in ARM or MIPS08:11
johnxthough I'd really like to see nice sensical icons for asm instructions08:11
RST38hor 8080, although there it was called RST708:11
luke-jri c08:11
RST38hThere are other cpus than ARM and MIPS, luke-jr. Use the Power!08:12
tigerthmm08:12
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johnxmmmm, touch screen based ASM programming :D08:12
* RST38h scratches his Yoda ears08:12
RST38hjohnx: Some of my apps have debugger enabled on N8x0, so you can at least look at assembly =)08:13
RolaBladeHi guys, can someone tell me about the python support for maemo and running PyQt apps on maemo08:13
johnxRolaBlade, have you already seen the maemo pyqt4 page?08:13
luke-jrRST38h: I don't know POWER assembly08:14
RST38h* Cost of 3G traffic will be the same as EDGE traffic cost.08:15
* RST38h rejoices08:15
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RolaBladejohnx: Yeah I have but the page seems to be lacking lots of info about developing for maemo with PyQt. I started wondering if that was just some toy project. That is actually why I want to know about the support for it08:16
johnxRolaBlade, PySide seems to be the Nokia supported thing08:16
MyrttiGood morning kids08:16
johnxsame idea, but LGPL08:16
RST38hEHLO Myrtti08:16
tigerthuomenta08:17
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* tigert ponders a small photo moment in ruoholahti08:18
tigertawesome chilly morning here08:18
tigertnah, i need my porage08:20
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Myrttii hate mornings08:27
qwerty12_N810I hate any day that is not Saturday or Sunday08:27
* qwerty12_N810 types this from his bed, reluctant to get out of it08:28
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, the tablets are such laziness enablers.08:28
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Myrttii just have really stiff back...08:28
Myrttimeh08:28
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: Indeed :)08:28
qwerty12_N810Myrtti: Me too :\08:29
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* GeneralAntilles fell asleep reading on his N800 around 7, woke up around 10. :\08:29
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Myrttiit's a bad sign if the commute makes me really tired and takes 15minutes08:32
Myrttiif it's 3 meters08:33
ds3metric sickness? ;)08:33
pupnikI find qwerty12's idea of a 'usable' emulator amusing ;)08:37
pupnikbut i know what you meant08:37
qwerty12_N810Compare VisualBoyAdvance to VGBA and you'll catch on pretty quickly08:38
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fralsgod i do not looking forward to going outside, 3 C :(08:46
RST38hqwerty: So which one is unusable? =)08:46
qwerty12_N810VisualBoyAdvance, obviously (Of course, I am talking about the tablets) :p08:47
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phazeihi08:48
pupnikqwerty12_N810: prior to VGBA, we had ATARI ST, Dosbox, NES and C64 emulation.  And i'm forgetting some08:48
pupniksomeone reading your post would think that vbga was the first usable emulator on the tablets08:48
qwerty12_N810pupnik: I'm talking about GBA emulation, as the topic was on GBA emulation08:48
pupnikahh08:48
RST38hWhat the hell are you talking about? =)08:49
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pupnikwell the statement works pretty well if you define usable as "not invoked from a shell" too :)08:49
Summeligpsp would be nice too :)08:49
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phazeiI'm contemplating getting Clear WIMAX and killing my Cox internet and Cricket cell service.  I'm already using GV and Gizmo as my primary number.  Seems my only options are the Samsung Mondi or the N810 W.E.  and I'd much rather stay away from PPC.  I had a couple questions I was hoping someone here might be able to answer.08:50
pupnikthat other gba emu thread on t.m.o. RST38h08:50
RST38ha moment08:50
pupnikit's so unimportant RST38h  - pls forget it :)08:51
luke-jrphazei: I'm not sure you could find a N810 W.E. anymore08:51
luke-jrthey were discontinued long before the N810 itself was08:51
phazeiebay solves that problem08:51
luke-jras most of the world doesn't have WiMax :p08:51
RST38hpupnik: No, no, I am gonna go flame! =)08:51
luke-jrphazei: it might08:51
luke-jrmight not too08:51
pupnikhahah08:51
luke-jr:p08:51
johnxphazei, what's the question?08:52
phazeiDoes the N810 only have the external speaker, or does it have a phone type speaker that I can hold up to my head?08:52
phazeiOr do I have to use bluetooth?08:52
luke-jrthere's a 3.5mm jack08:52
qwerty12_N810There's no phone-type speaker08:52
johnxphazei, it has a mic and two side speakers08:53
johnxworks as well as a speaker phone08:53
RST38hqwerty,pupnik: Before you go too deep, just for reference, let me mention that the Rotkaeqpchen apparently never had a tablet08:53
luke-jrI'm not sure what you would hold up to your head besides an external speaker08:53
phazeiThe 3.5mm jack, is it for headphones only, or does it also work with a mic?08:53
RST38hSo, his "interest" is mostly academic at the moment08:53
luke-jrphazei: both08:53
luke-jrphazei: note the N810's builtin mic sucks08:53
phazeiWhat I meant by external speaker was the speaker phone type speaker rather than the low volume one by the ear.08:53
johnxyeah, just has the two stereo "music speakers"08:54
luke-jrphazei: that's a matter of volume, isn't it? ;)08:54
pupniki think the microphone is normal = i.e. not useful for hifi recording08:54
phazeiSo a bluetooth headset would fix the problem.08:54
johnxyeah08:54
luke-jrpupnik: not useful for speakerphone-conversing or meeting-recording either08:54
johnxbut the real question is whether it works with the wimax near you08:54
RST38hN810 builtin mic is an order of magnitude better than most laptop mics I have seen08:54
johnxclear uses  "mobile wimax" and "pre-wimax" in different areas08:55
RST38hSkype is actually USABLE with N810, can't use it with a laptop08:55
pupnikluke-jr: people could understand me fine in skype - do you have some professional type experience using it in that environment?08:55
phazeiI'm in Vegas.08:55
phazeiSkype isn't free and doesn't use SIP...08:55
RST38hIs there a free alternative?08:55
johnxluke-jr, that's not my experience either...08:55
phazeiGoogle Voice iwth Gizmo.08:55
johnxthough, IMHO, the N800 works better as a speakerphone08:56
johnxwhere is the N810 mic placed?08:56
phazeiFree incoming with Gizmo, and GV calls out to you so outbound is inbound.08:56
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phazeiSecond, it's going to be my primary WiMAX device, so I would want to use it to provide broadband to my laptop.08:57
pupnik < RST38h> Skype is actually USABLE with N810, can't use it with a laptop   <<< my experience also08:57
luke-jrpupnik: just personal attempts to use it08:57
pupnikand the n810 was in my shirt-pocket while i was gizmo/skyping08:57
luke-jrsitting it on a table in a meeting room, the recording is utterly useless08:57
luke-jrtrying to do the same with a call, also useless08:57
phazeiSo could I use the bluetooth or wifi to have the internet go from the N810 to the laptop?08:57
pupnikcompared to what luke-jr08:57
luke-jrjohnx: N810 mic is under the bottom08:58
luke-jrin the stand08:58
luke-jror rather, under the stand08:58
johnxphazei, with a little hacking around in linux08:58
pupnikit's not covered by the stand08:58
RST38hphazei: And Google Voice / Gizmo are free?08:59
luke-jrpupnik: compared with anything I can hear what is said08:59
phazeiyup08:59
johnxphazei, but I don't think Las Vegas' Clear coverage is actually real "mobile WiMax"08:59
phazeiBeen using it for a couple months now.08:59
johnxdo a little digging to make sure08:59
pupnikso compared with a standard laptop, it is worse in your experience?08:59
pupnikwhen sitting on table08:59
pupnikinteresting08:59
johnxwith what? a clear provided wimax adapter?08:59
luke-jrpupnik: I don't use "standard laptop" ever.08:59
pupnika standard laptop would be included in the term "everything"09:00
luke-jrbut I literally cannot make anything out via the N810 mic09:00
pupnikk09:00
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luke-jrthe best I've been able to do is record baby heartbeats by folding the stand out and holding the bottom up to the machine speaker09:00
phazeiI've been using GV and Gizmo with PC, and a wifi phone.  And just GV by itself with my cell.09:00
pupnikit's rather curious to hear such different evaluations of the micropone09:01
phazeiMy other option is to get this WiMAX to WiFi portable hotspot, which is basically a portable router that you plug a USB WiMAX adapter into that runs off a battery and would work with any wifi cell.09:02
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RST38hBTW, is Google Voice a SIP provider? =)09:02
phazeiNot quite.09:02
johnxRST38h, nah, it's "something else"09:02
RST38hOk. And how about "free"? Don't you have to pay to call landlines?09:03
phazeiWhen google voice first came out there was actaully a IP address that would provide you with open SIP service.09:03
luke-jrRST38h: Google Voice can route via Gizmo to a Gizmo-local number09:04
phazeiBut they found some inherent security issues with the SIP, so closed it.  But then they made a deal with Gizmo that uses the SIP on the back end so in the GV settings you just type in your Gizmo SIP number and it does it's magic on the backend.09:04
luke-jrphazei: also, don't expect the GPS function to work09:04
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phazei?09:04
* luke-jr notes the Gizmo support is older than Google Voice, from when it was GrandCentral09:04
RST38hluke: So, is Gizmo free? It is asking me to pay for calling actual phones09:04
phazeiThe GPS doesn't work with the N810 or Mer?09:04
johnxthe GPS is pretty slow to lock, and might not get a fix in a car or in some cases in a city09:04
luke-jrphazei: it has issues even on Maemo09:05
RST38hIf anyones sees wazd, tell him I was looking for him09:05
johnxdoesn't work out of the box in Mer *yet* but hopefully that can be worked out09:05
phazeiGizmo is free for SIP service.  Gizmo has free inbound, but you need to pay like $4 a month for a POTS number and $0.02 a min for outbound.09:05
luke-jrphazei: but on non-Maemo, it's mostly hopeless at this point; you can hope on Nokia convincing TI to release code, but they have no interest in doign so09:05
RST38hNeed a new menu for the AlmostTI, the one with TI73 support included09:05
phazeiBut with GV you can bypass the need for the POTS number and by pass the outbound issue.09:06
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RST38hphazei: So you can't call for free with Gizmo09:06
RST38hThen I do not see how it is better than Skype09:06
phazeiMaking Gizmo a 100% free solution when combined with GV.09:06
RST38hbut you have to place calls through GV site?09:06
johnxphazei, also keep in mind that luke-jr basically hangs around here and bashes the Nokia stuff09:06
luke-jrRST38h: Skype is not standards-compliant, and has some spyware-style "features" at least in some variants09:06
luke-jrjohnx: pfft09:06
johnxluke-jr, tell me I'm wrong.09:07
phazeiGV gives you the POTS # for free and when you want to make an outbound call with GV, you type the number in to GV and it will call you and start ringing when you pick up. So it's inbound.09:07
RST38hluke: Well, I compared the call quality, Skype is usable, Gizmo/GV does not seem to be, too much distortion09:07
luke-jrRST38h: that's probably the software. I only use the service.09:07
RST38hSoftware...eh...09:07
luke-jrjohnx: it's not my fault that Nokia refuses to fix the problems and everyone else seems to assist them in false advertising Maemo/Nxx0 as open source09:08
* Stskeeps gets out the ducttape09:08
phazeiI read a review that said it was a bit slow to lock on the GPS compared to a garmin.09:08
phazeiSkype has a new SIP service but it's business only.09:09
phazeiBut Gizmo has a new service that is $20 a year called OpenSky, which is supposed to provide free calls to Skype.09:09
phazeiSo if I could use OpenSky to forward all my Gizmo calls to Skype, that would be good.  Though then I'd be doing this GV -> Gizmo -> Skype thing, which seems like quite the bit of finagling.09:11
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* luke-jr glances around.09:12
luke-jrDid Stskeeps put the duct tape away yet?09:12
Stskeepsno.09:12
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* qwerty12_N810 wouldn't like Stskeeps walking near his streets09:12
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phazeiDoes Nokia have any N9xx WiMAX devices in line?09:13
luke-jrphazei: pretty sure they discontinued the N810 WiMAX because nobody has WiMAX service available...09:14
luke-jrso I'd be surprised if they did09:14
phazeiOh, and clear said that all they need is the MAC to get any WiMAX device working.09:14
luke-jrbut I think you're only going to get speculation on that question09:14
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phazeiWith Clear charging along as they are, and all these new 4G services, seems like lots of people will have WiMAX soon.09:15
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timeless"soon" was what sprint said last time09:17
timelessonce bit, twice shy09:17
phazeiThough I'm not clear on WiMAX and 4G.  WiMAX is 4G, but it doesn't seem the other way around.  Would the N810 WiMAX work with any carriers 4G service?09:17
timelessno09:17
timelessread wikipedia09:17
timelessthere are 3g GSM and 3g CDMA networks09:17
timelessthey aren't compatible either09:18
timelessput differently09:18
timelessif you speak english09:18
timelessand i speak spanish09:18
timeless1g is like ujs speaking elementary schoo (spanish/english)09:19
timeless2g is secondary school09:19
timeless3g could bem high school09:19
timelesssure we use longer words and can express more concepts09:19
timelessHablas ud. espanol muy bien?09:19
timelessBueno. Podria hablar por muchas horas!09:20
* timeless pokes phazei09:21
* Corsac wakes up09:21
* phazei wakes up09:21
phazeiIf only we had Google Wave Rosie :p09:21
phazeiI just read the wiki's for WiMAX and 4G09:22
timelesswell, I'd settle for the spell checker09:22
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timelesssince i'm typing on an n900 from a bed in Brno09:22
fralsgod its fucking freezing today09:23
timelessusing what Wave would call the "alternate" client09:23
phazeiGoogle Wave also does real time spell checking of words based on context :D09:23
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timeless/ctcp frals geolocation09:23
timelessphazei: sure, is it going to get Brno right or wrong?09:23
phazeiStill eagerly waiting for my invite, don't know.09:24
timelessheh09:24
fralsstockholm, .se09:24
timelessdo you know what Brno is?09:25
Stskeepspoland is kinda cold too09:25
timelessit's not bad here09:25
timelessi was wearing shorts yesterday09:25
phazeiAre you in the Czech Republic?09:25
timelessyep09:25
Stskeepsyeah, we had some scandinavian weather09:25
RST38h(that was done by googling)09:25
Stskeepsit's better than helsinki though where you could feel winter coming09:25
timelessi was in slovakia yesterday morning09:25
phazeiYes, yes it was ;)09:25
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timelesswait, is phazei the stupid irc gateway?09:26
* timeless kicks the dumb bot09:26
Stskeepswhat irc gateway? :P09:27
timelessyou're no Rosie :)09:27
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phazeiI'm using the webchat client.09:27
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johnxhey phazei. what did you find out about the wimax available in las vegas?09:30
phazeijohn, what do you mean by real "mobile WiMAX"09:30
johnxa service that complies with the standard for "mobile wimax" which added cell-to-cell roaming and some other stuff09:30
phazeiIt seems to be 802.1609:31
johnxlast time I checked, only Baltimore (and DC?) had it09:31
johnxthe rest were pre-WiMax09:31
RST38hMoscow has got mobile WiMax =)09:31
johnxidaho?09:31
RST38hFixed WiMax too, as a matter of fact09:31
RST38hjohnx: oh...reminded me something09:32
timelesstrials were done in VA09:32
RST38hjohnx: On subway once, overheard two girls talking09:32
timelessiirc there was supposed to be a rollout somewhere in the southwest09:32
johnxRST38h, happened to me once too09:33
phazeihmm, as of April 1st it's only Baltimore and Portland.09:33
RST38hjohnx: Both american, one explaining to the other how happy she is to leave Idaho for Moscow to work for some Christian missionary organization09:33
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RST38hjohnx: Made mental note : "Never EVER go to Idaho" =)09:34
phazeilol09:34
tigertmormons maybe09:34
johnxRST38h, heh. little did they know, they were heading towards the wrong Moscow...09:34
tigertthey do those "missionary work in other country" -things09:34
tigertor was this some american moscow? :)09:35
RST38hNo, it was the proper one09:35
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tigertok09:35
tigertits always confusing with these middle-of-nowhere city names in the US09:35
johnxtigert, yup, saw them standing outside in the cold around christmas in Japan.09:35
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phazeiI'll call clear tomorrow and ask them about the pre-WiMax thing in Vegas.  Vegas is pretty nice to live in since a lot of companies roll out first here.09:37
* RST38h sometimes gets bugged by missionaries. They usually start by asking if he knows the name of the God09:37
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Do you respond with "Ctulthu"?09:37
RST38h"Yea, it is Jesus, isn't it? -- How do you know? -- Simple, we crucified him."09:37
tigertthere's Finland in Minnesota09:38
tigertfor example09:38
RST38hThat *normally* stops them, although some wanted to continue beyond this point.09:38
phazeiRST38h: haha, I have to use that one. Jews FTW.09:38
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fralsthe good thing with this godforsaken cold is the fact my coke is cold even if i didnt put it in the fridge last night \o/09:39
frals10minutes in the window and its good to drink!09:39
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phazeiAnyone know if there are nationwide wireless usb broadband cards in germany that I could just sign up for for a couple weeks?09:41
pupnikas a german yes09:41
pupnikand i think i read about prepaid hsdpa data also09:42
phazeiI'm just going to take some clothes and a netbook.  I was going to use the Google Wave Rosie so as long as I have wifi/broadband I'm good.09:42
pupnikhttp://prepaid-vergleich-tarife.de/prepaid-datentarife-umts/?gclid=CKGD5aqfm50CFVZe4wodYBhZcQ   a prepaid umts chart09:43
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phazeisweet09:44
phazeiI'm not familiar with the providers there, do they all have similar coverage?  I'm going to be around Frankfurt, and anywhere I can get around to inside of 1-2 weeks.09:45
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phazeiI guess I'd be with simply or karlmobil as they have prepaid monthly plans.09:46
RST38hYou probably do not have to care about coverage around Frankfurt...09:47
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johnxdoes western Europe even have the same coverage issues as the US? I kinda got the impression that coverage was pretty universal09:48
phazeiWell, the US is usually behind now-a-days.09:48
johnxand the lack of roaming options (GSM vs CDMA) hurts a lot09:49
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fralsdunno how it is in germany, but in sweden coverage is pretty much a nonissue until you go way up north09:50
adeussame here in Finland, and even there you have to really struggle to not get a signal09:50
RST38hjohnx: Europe is more densely populated09:51
phazeiWill all GPS devices still work the same here as there? (I figured they would, just double checking)09:51
RST38hjohnx: easier to have coverage there09:51
johnxRST38h, I can't help but think that sharing phone standards must help a lot too09:52
phazeiTons of empty shit all over the US :D09:52
phazeiI don't have any cell coverage when I visit my dad up in the mountains in AZ.09:52
johnxthere are still really weird dead spots even in densely populated areas here :/09:52
phazeiSharing?  That's just uncapitalistic, how else can US phone companies gouge prices?09:53
RST38hjohnx: That is probably not longer an issue09:53
johnxRST38h, I actually just visited a town over the summer that had CDMA coverage only09:53
RST38hjohnx: After all, you are not roaming between providers09:53
johnxRST38h, depends on the agreements in place09:54
RST38hjohnx: Many spots here have no CDMA coverage09:54
RST38h=)09:54
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adeusI wouldn't call Finland a densely populated country :)09:54
RST38hjohnx: Well, leaving/working in a faraday cage does not help reception, that's true :)09:54
johnxRST38h, heh :P but really, it was the weirdest thing to have absolutely no coverage anywhere in this town09:55
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RST38hs/leaving/living mhm09:55
johnxmy phone didn't even tell me "emergency calls only" just "no signal"09:55
RST38hjohnx: At least nobody can bother you09:55
johnxRST38h, yeah, and I couldn't bother anyone for directions09:56
RST38hYou needed directions? Wasn't any road leading out ok? =)09:56
johnxfamily reunion (was actually a lot of fun)09:57
RST38hAh09:57
timelessrst38h++09:57
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phazeiClear's support chat is so useless, they only tell me their fixed copy and paste responses.10:09
RST38hyou are talking to a robot!10:09
phazeiThey refered me to tech support, heh.10:10
johnxphazei, kinda figured that would be the case. didn't want to crush your dreams though10:10
phazeiWell, I can always get their portable hotspot device at least, but then I'd have that and the phone.10:11
johnxor wait and get an n900 :)10:11
phazeiI suppose that really opens my options up for phones though, any phone that supports wifi regardless of carrier.  Tons on ebay.10:11
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crashanddiephazei, your dream phone doesn't exist10:31
crashanddiephazei, change your expectations or build one10:31
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MyrttiVOI VANUKAS argghghghghghghghghgh10:50
Myrttithis outburst provided to you by: egrep10:50
johnxcould be worse. could be sed10:51
Myrttithat too.10:51
Myrttiand awk.10:51
johnxawk isn't too bad10:51
MyrttiI hatez it10:51
johnxthough I admit that I stick to grep and cut when I can get away with it10:51
johnxhaving a problem with extended regexp?10:51
MyrttiI'm having problems with my life mainly10:52
Myrttinot limited to software10:52
johnx"egrep ruined my life" story at at 11!10:53
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tekojo1Myrtti cheer up, everything will be fine10:56
Myrttitekojo1: my forehead is just a bit bruised10:57
johnxneed one of those forehead protectors, so that when you bang your head into the wall, the wall loses10:57
RST38hthicker tin foil hat?10:59
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CorsacI really love expansys11:18
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Stskeepsmm/11:21
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RST38hAhhahahaha! Found it!11:23
Corsac?11:24
RST38hTraced test case down to a bug.11:24
Corsac\o/11:25
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phazeicrashanddie, there's always the HTC MAX 4G Quartz WiMAX, but $1K is a bit over my budget for a phone.11:34
phazeiAnd I'd still be stuck with WM611:34
timelesssomeone announced a new satphone net recently11:35
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fralshttp://abstrusegoose.com/strips/why_when_i_was_your_age.PNG :D11:39
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johnxI'm highly considering writing a sed script rather than actually trying to setup opensync11:40
timelessheh11:43
timelessfrals: awesome, and it fitsa my n900 screen11:45
johnxgetting address book entries down from LDAP into some reasonable PIM seems harder than setting up the LDAP server was in the first place11:45
Corsachmhm, it seems to work fine in my evo11:45
fralstimeless: :)11:46
johnxCorsac, kinda thinking PIM for the N8x011:46
Corsacworks fine in thunderbird too, though I'm not sure tb is really a pim app11:46
Corsacoh.11:46
Corsacyeah11:46
Corsacwell11:46
Corsacis there any, anyway?11:46
johnxgpe-contacts and pimlico contacts both seem to have the basic functionality11:47
Corsac(is the n900 PIM application available on mer?)11:47
johnxCorsac, not unless source appears after the Maemo5 release11:47
Corsacjohnx: oki11:47
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Corsacbut it /should/ be available, at one point?11:47
johnxunknown11:48
Corsacok11:48
johnxI won't place bets either way11:48
johnx...and theoretically opensync should glue LDAP and gpe-contacts or pimlico contacts together nicely11:48
CorsacI should retry mer, when I have time11:48
Corsacopensync basically sucks11:48
Corsacfrom my own experience, I mean11:48
johnxI believe you11:48
johnxI don't see any other options though11:49
Corsacthere is none :/11:49
Corsacsync on linux is just...11:49
Corsacpainful11:49
Corsacor inexistent11:49
johnxit looks like if I can figure out the config once I should be able to make it work11:49
Corsacwell; there's the funambol thing11:49
CorsacsyncML servers etc.11:49
Corsacbut I don't really like that11:49
johnxwhat I'd really like is native LDAP support inside a nice lightweight contacts app11:49
CorsacI'm not a huge fan of cloud computing11:49
johnxI run my own LDAP server11:49
johnxout on a little hosted xen instance11:50
Corsacme too, but I'd prefer a local addressbook, synchronized with a desktop, a laptop, etc.11:50
Corsacand sync to an ldap too11:50
Corsacbut still have a way to do device2device sync11:50
johnxI don't care how it happens but I'm absolutely tired of not having this stuff all in sync11:51
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* Stskeeps glares at 0.16testing6 bugs11:51
Stskeeps"Yet no locale for Brazil"11:51
johnxCorsac, so was your experience that it was insanely hard to setup or that after setup it didn't sync reliably?11:52
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Corsacjohnx: both11:53
johnx:/11:53
Corsacyeah :/11:53
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timelesssts: tonight i'll try to update strings11:54
CorsacI had some hope with syncevolution, but it doesn't do device2device11:54
Corsac(and it only does evolution, afair)11:54
timelessdo you have any packages that need English?11:54
johnxCorsac, that should work perfectly. thanks! (the pimlico contacts app uses an evolution data store)11:54
Corsacjohnx: there's that "conduit" stuff but I don't think it does syncML over bluetooth11:54
johnxI'll use scp from cron if I have to11:55
Stskeepstimeless: :nod: things will probably align a lot closer to Fremantle once we switch to the new desktop11:55
Stskeepsso we don't need to have different sets11:55
timelesseta?11:55
Stskeepssec, have to find my big piece of roadmap paper..11:56
timelesswhat's the networking soltion?11:56
StskeepsNM with a statusbar plugin i think11:56
Stskeepswe release 0.16 next week and start integrating the new desktop over the next couple of days11:57
Stskeeps0.17 testing week 44, release week 4511:57
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johnxCorsac, headed to bed for now. I'll see if I can figure out something sane tomorrow12:01
johnx'night all12:01
timelessand for those of us w/o finnish calendars?12:02
sp3000you're so carrying one ;)12:03
timelessfirst / second week of nov?12:03
timelesssp3000: i use my localization to hide most of that12:03
Stskeeps44 is 26 oct - 1 nov12:03
timelesssadly the idiots managed to screw localizers there12:04
timelesssts: really? my tablet disagrees12:04
timelesswait...12:05
MyrttiCHEESECAKE!12:05
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timelessdoes week numbering vary based on start of week?12:05
timelesssp3000: what does your cal say is wk 44?12:05
sp3000iso week numbering follows thursdays, not sure if you get the same variant12:06
Stskeepstimeless: depending on locale.. danish starts at mondays12:06
sp3000what Stskeeps said12:06
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Stskeepslo wazd12:06
timelesssp3000: what does your cal say is wk 44?12:06
sp3000(about 44, dunno about danes)12:06
bigbrovari want it now!12:06
timelesssts: awesome12:06
JaffaMorning, all12:06
wazdHeya world :)12:06
woglindehi wazd12:06
timelessand this is why wk nujbers are stupid12:06
timelessmy cal claims nov1 through 712:07
bigbrovarhi wazd12:07
wazdI'm sick of Edge connection(12:07
Stskeepswazd: you decided to escape from the army into uncivilized area? :P12:07
timelessbut if ik change first day of wk to monday12:07
timelessit agrees with sts12:07
timelesswow, that's insane12:08
Corsacsp3000: iso weeks start on monday afaik12:08
timelessok, i'm so translating "week N" as " "12:08
timelesscorsac: who cares12:09
Corsacsp3000 :)12:09
timelessit's not even portable across n900 with the same locale12:09
sp3000Corsac: sure, but the numbering is "w1 is the week with the first thursday of the year"12:09
timelessi can't think of a less useful shorthand12:09
sp3000(i.e. the most days of that week, given Monday as the first day of the week)12:09
Corsacsp3000: ha, sorry, I misunderstood what you meant :)12:11
sp3000but yeah the us version differs, Thu 2009-01-01 is w52 rather than w01 iso12:12
sp3000well that was unparseable12:13
sp3000w52 us, w01 iso12:13
Corsacmrpf12:13
* sp3000 goes read an exciting book on prolog or something12:15
timelesshow about a book on programming localization coordinators?12:15
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* timeless sighs12:17
timelessthe people who "designed" this stuff should be shot12:17
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plastunhello! where I can find API for window keyboard?12:21
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wazdGoddamn12:34
wazdThis place is freaking shielded from any signaling12:35
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timelessplastun: api docs are on maemo.org in developer or so12:39
RST38hWazd!12:40
RST38hwazd: EHLO, something has come up =)12:40
RST38hwazd: Looks like ATI85 menu is missing TI73, should be between 86 and 82 =)12:42
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MyrttiI think it just might be that my blues can be blown away only by a roast beef Subway.12:58
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* timeless discovers that this 4wk long summer vacation is in fact only 3 weeks long13:34
timelesscalendaring is hard13:34
AStormthey stoeled a week!!!113:34
AStorm;)13:34
* timeless will have to spend a week some time or another13:35
inzIf you take time away from "timeless," does that make "timelesser"?13:35
AStormhey, you're timeless, you shouldn't care about one week one way or the other13:36
rangetimeless: Fixed in Harmattan >:)13:36
AStormrange: nah, likely in Fremantle too soon.13:36
timelessrange: let's see13:36
AStormwhen the devs find out someone is stealing their vacations13:36
timelessthe problem was i counted weekends13:37
AStormor maybe that was a "motivational" feature?13:37
AStorm:P13:37
timeless4 weekends = 4 weeks, right?13:37
AStormWRONG.13:37
timelessnow you tell me13:37
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timelessi wonder if i made this mistake in previous years too13:37
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timelessi don't care about time, but i like to travel13:38
timelessand rushing through because i'm well .. me, kinda spoils things13:38
timelessotoh, it means i get back relatively sooner13:39
timelessperhaps i can make harmattan less bad13:39
timelessalways look on the bright side of a 25% less full glass that isn't quite half empty?13:40
AStorm;p13:40
timelessanyone here have ms outlook?13:40
zerojaytimeless: Dude, at least you didn't forget your vacation like I did once a few years ago.13:41
zerojaytimeless: I do when I'm at work... so.. about 2 hours from now.13:41
* SpeedEvil reads backscroll.13:42
SpeedEvil'luke-jr: the best I've been able to do is record baby heartbeats by folding the stand out and holding the bottom up to the machine speaker' Make sure to wipe first I guess.13:42
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timelesszerojay: if you change the first day of week from sunday to monday or vice versa, does it change "week numbering"?14:04
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lardmanafternoon14:06
zerojaytimeless: Good question. Hang on.14:06
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timelessi got an answer that implies it does14:07
timelessi think the people were smoking something14:07
zerojaytimeless: Yes, it does. Says W39 for today with first day as Sunday, but W40 with first day as Monday.14:08
lardmanhow are the week numbers calculated? First full week in the near year?14:08
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lardmans/near/new14:09
zerojayW40 seems to be what we're on going by Nokia's internal numbering (going by firmware version).14:09
RST38hlardman: Who cares? They are calculated by HR and passed out to us on little laminated calendars14:09
lardmanlol yeah14:09
zerojayOnly if you're in Europe. :)14:10
timelessrst38h: i care14:10
timelessbecause i believe that my first day is sunday14:10
timelessso i want my calendar to show that14:10
adeushrr14:11
timelessbut i'd like to know that changing day of week makes my week numbering incompatible w/ hr14:11
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aSIMULAternorth american calendar shows the first day of the week as sunday14:11
aSIMULAtermonday is the first day of hte week for other countries14:11
lardmannot for the UK14:11
lardmanor do you mean in the default settings?14:12
wazdJesus, I'm in a freaking asylum!))14:12
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aSIMULAterfinland has monday as the first day of the week and some other eu countries14:12
zerojaylol14:12
aSIMULAterdon't know off the top of my head which ones though14:12
wazdFreaks all around me, I feel weird)14:12
fatal^sweden  starts weeks with mondays as well.14:12
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adeusthe week starts when you have to go to work again14:13
adeusmonday14:13
adeus:)14:13
lardmansurely when you start thinking about going to work again, Sunday ;)14:14
RST38hwazd: The canonical quote was "Has your ambulance been going to a hospital or to an asylum?"14:14
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adeusstarting the week on Sunday os almost as evil as using a 12H clock14:14
aSIMULAterit's related to the christian calendar I THINK14:14
aSIMULAtersunday being the first day of hte week due to it being the day of worship14:14
lardmanno, should be the last, the sabbath14:14
wazdBtw, iphone version of gmail can't attach files? Haven't found the button but it's to lame to be true14:14
glass__wouldn't that be a good reason to keep it last14:14
glass__yeh14:14
RST38hwazd: And I am forced to asked for an updated to the AlmostTI menu image - need to add TI73 between TI86 and TI8214:15
glass__.. and on the 7th day he just arsed around doing nothing14:15
lardmanor do we assume the Jews are right there and Sat is the last day14:15
timelessjudo14:15
aSIMULAterit's a judeo christian thing14:15
timelesserr judeo14:15
RST38hs/asked/ask14:15
timelesstyping on gprs on a pendolino is frustrating14:15
* lardman wondered what it had to do with the Japanese :)14:15
wazdRST38h: oh, sure :) Moo btw)14:15
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RST38hglass: On the 7th day He looked at the creation of His, was impressed, and said "Oh, fuck..." and everybody started fucking.14:16
RST38hMoo indeed14:16
woglinderst *g* sounds logic14:16
RST38hof course it does =)14:16
zerojayaSIMULAter: Hey.. little UI issue.14:17
aSIMULAterhihi what issue?14:17
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zerojayPM.14:18
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bigbrovarHi guys i just flashed my n810 and am about to update it to the latest release, how ever when i try to install updates am getting this14:19
bigbrovarunable to update 0S 2008 feature upgrade application pacakges mission: preinstalled documentation-rx44 (=5.4)14:19
bigbrovarthis is a fresh install and i ahve not done installation of any 3rd party software. or enabled any unofficial repo14:20
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vanksiwill OS2008 apps work on maemo 5?14:21
timelesstypically one will recompile14:21
wazdRST38h: I've remade theme buttons btw, as you suggested14:21
wazdRST38h: Don't know if I'll be able to show em right now)14:22
RST38hwazd: Wherever you feel like it, send them in: looks like I have the theme maker figured out, more or less14:23
RST38hvanksi: command line stuff should work, the rest depends.14:24
wazdRST38h: Konttori sent me new version but I hadn't got time to test it14:24
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woglindehi x-fade14:27
RST38hmoo X-Fade14:28
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wazdX-Fade: heya14:29
* tigert tried out the snes emu14:33
tigertI wonder if all snes games have 4:3  aspect ratio?14:34
tigertone could make nice touchscreen buttons for the gamer controls there14:34
tigertin the edges14:34
RST38hnot really, not enough space14:35
wazdSure all are 4:314:35
wazdThey're not exactly 4:3 btw, a bit wider14:35
* RST38h tried that approach too14:35
lardmanbigbrovar: did you remove that package?14:36
woglindere lardman14:36
ShadowJKhm...14:36
lardmanhey woglinde14:36
fralsproblem with having controls on screend would be lack of multitouch, or wouldnt it be noticable?14:36
* ShadowJK finds it suspicious that Nokia announces N900 with 10M HSDPA and a 10M HSDPA USB modem so close together time-wise...14:36
bigbrovarlardman:14:36
lardmandid you make a typo? should it have said "missing"?14:37
RST38hShadowJK: It is for those who can't afford the display/keyboard attachments to the modem =)14:37
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bigbrovarlardman: no i didnt , i figured it was because am using an older flash image14:37
tigertRST38h: really?14:37
tigertfrals: that too14:37
lardmanoh right, so it said blah *mission* blah to you?14:37
tigertfrals: though the keyboard is not total multitouch either, as it likely is a matrix14:37
fralsah okey14:38
lardman"unable to update 0S 2008 feature upgrade application pacakges MISSION: preinstalled documentation-rx44 (=5.4)"14:38
bigbrovar lardman: so i guess downloading the latest flash should work, i tot i chould use the older image i have and upgrafe OTA but guess there are some deps14:38
timelessvanski: do ksi: do you have a specific app in mind?14:38
lardmansee caps above14:38
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tigertfrals: one could do voodoo hacks with resistive touchscreen though14:38
RST38htigert: well, if you look at any of my apps, they include on-screen controls and run 4:3 games14:38
tigertfrals: as if you multitouch, the touch coords will be in the middle of those points14:38
tigertwith large area recognized14:38
lardmanbigbrovar: well if you flash a new image it ought to just work, but who knows, best to flash the latest avilable one really14:39
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tigertas you can see with sketch for example14:39
RST38htigert: but you can easily notice that there is not enough space for the virtual "dpad" so it ovelaps the image a bit14:39
* lardman heads to the lab to do some work, bbiab14:39
fralsyeah true :)14:39
tigertRST38h: yea the dpad is the problem I guess14:39
timelessre missing package, easiest thing to do is to probably get someone to help you forge the package14:39
timelesslardman: i can't remember where those files lived14:40
timelesswere they evil residents of the user's home dir?14:40
ShadowJKyes14:40
ShadowJKbut even if you delete them I think dpkg would still think they're installed14:40
timelessflashing doesn't typically touch that area, right?14:41
timelesseasiest problem is if you flashed w/ rx48 instead of rx4414:41
bigbrovar lardman: yeah that is what am doing right now (need to give the device out to the brother of my ex -long story- as a goodwill measure to the gods so i can be lucky in my quest for the n900 :)14:41
timelessor something14:41
timelessthey're relatively similar but ith different preinstalled packages14:42
timelessdpkg -l *docum*14:42
timelessif it lists 48 ...14:42
* timeless shoots asteeple from a pendolino14:43
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woglinderx48?14:46
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timelessdo as i command while i have coverage14:47
timelessask questions later14:47
timelesspendolinos in centtal europe have spotty cellular coverage14:47
timelessgreat views,,,14:48
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mvzto followup on my own question a few days ago, I found a good listing of non-free components: http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages14:48
timelessof a military depot... :o14:48
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timelessoops, low battery14:48
wazdn900 has closed components?!14:49
timeless2g coverage is expensive :(14:49
wazdI wouldn't buy it then!14:49
mvzwazd: apparently so, but excitingly few imho14:49
wazdmvz: everything should free or destroyed!14:50
* mvz shrugs14:50
mvzI just want a phone I can hack on, after too many years forced to be a user only (on symbian) :)14:51
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RST38hsymbian is hackable14:53
SummeliRST38h: it really isn't :(14:53
adeuspreferrably with a hammer14:53
SummeliI would like hack some memory drivers in the kernel space, but that's not gonna happen :(14:53
Summelithe memory mapping sucks hard in symbian14:54
Summeliall dynarec emus are taking a huge performance hit for that :(14:54
SpeedEvilOpenMoko is mostly working phone hardware. The hardware is a bit old and clunky though.14:54
SpeedEvilno closed packages at all14:54
RST38hSummeli: oh, the kernel space...14:57
SummeliI would also be nice to be able to write directly to the frame buffer etc..14:57
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timeless.. on my phone's battery, and it's either use it or bust. 8m trying for use it15:04
timelesssummeli: you enjoy tiggring tearing and device hang?15:05
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Summelitimeless: yeah, i like that15:05
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timelessthere's a cool window for killing these devices.. something about the bus...15:05
SummeliI find it worth for better FPS15:05
timelessok, just so long as you don't share your software15:06
timelessfwiw, q3 looks fine15:06
timelessor runs fine15:06
Decepticonis nokia going to abandon symbian in favor of maemo down the line or stick with 3 different OS's and confuse consumers (symbian, maemo, win7 on the tablet 3g)15:06
timelessfps is probably btter w GLes15:07
timelessdeception: you missed s4015:07
timelessand we're not good at reading tea leaves here15:07
Decepticons40 s60 and so on15:07
Summelitimeless: maybe I'll have a chance to hack it, when Symbain foundation releases open source package from the kernel :)15:07
keesjit all runs Qt and browsers I don't see the problem15:07
timelesss40 isn't symbian15:07
Decepticontimeless: oh?15:08
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timelessask wikipedia15:08
Decepticoni see15:09
Decepticonis there a symbian emulator for maemo forseeable?15:09
ShadowJKSummeli, I imagine there'd still be a problem in getting your hacked version onto the device?15:09
timelessask vmware?15:09
SummeliDecepticon: Qt will be cross platform, so there is no need15:09
ShadowJKheh.15:09
SummeliShadowJK: I know that it's not gonna happen, but I could run it with TI's ZOOM board, or with some other HW :)15:10
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ShadowJKSummeli, run it on booklet ;-)15:11
JaffaWhat's my "Primary community project"? tablet-encode, mud-builder, Attitude, Hermes, ...? Damned summit stuff asking me to categorise myself15:13
timelessmaemo.org?15:13
JaffaThat's what I had before; don't want to pass myself off as an employee - but hopefully my name might still carry some weight ;-)15:14
keesjJaffa: /me just removed "council" and replaced it with MUD15:14
timelessanyway, there is enough hardware crossover, that one could use vmware + open symbian15:14
keesjsecondary "hardware hacking :P"15:14
timelessonce you add support for vmware as a base hw :)15:15
* Jaffa sticks with just "maemo.org" - since the home of the community is my primary project, even if it's entirely off-the-radar now15:15
timelessdid i miss the election?15:15
timelessum15:16
timelessmy battrr went from nearly empty to half charged15:16
Stskeepsyeah, we voted in the furry council, or the council with first names as surnames ;)15:16
X-Fadetimeless: warmed up?15:16
timelessSp3000: ping eero15:16
timelessthis is red, not green15:16
timelessx-fade: i've been on the same train for over an hour...15:17
timelessin .cz15:17
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timelessbrno .. praha15:17
jaskabrno needs to buy a vowel15:18
timelessYou're not the first to suggest that15:18
jaskai know15:19
* timeless misses a photo15:19
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sp3000phto you mean15:23
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sp3000timeless: temp, stopping charging, ...15:24
adeusthe road racer Jakub Smrz always makes me smile15:25
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sp3000heh, brno at least is still pronounceable ;)15:25
timelesssmrz doesn't seem too bad15:27
Anunakinwhat is the release date for N900?15:27
adeus19.1015:27
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timelessthere's a release date?15:28
adeusI heard that somewhere15:28
Stskeepsi thought you skipped it to introduce the Nokia N1000 "Gruntmaster"15:28
timelesssp3000: there's a sms cnter field w. an error like  that15:29
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fralsrelease date is october afaik15:31
rangeCool, that's today.15:31
adeuswiki also says 19., although no citation15:31
adeus"must be true" :)15:31
fralsid go with the "when its done" either way ^^15:32
timelesshas anyone played w/ the n900 @ the nokia store in hel.fi?15:33
RST38hN1000 will be a CDMA flip phone15:34
adeushttp://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php15:35
adeusa nice review if someone didn't notice15:35
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fragmenttimeless: yeah, I went there the day it was available there15:35
wazdLooks like I'm not a psycho after all)15:36
Stskeepswazd: mm?15:36
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jeremiahtimeless: Whoa - you guys have an actual device in an actual store!? Cool15:37
timelessdid they let you play?15:37
fragmentyes15:38
timelessafaik there should be one at each of about 5 stores worldwide :)15:38
timelessi think one's in nyc15:38
timelessdid anything break? :)15:38
fragmentyeah, there was some process stuck or something. the whole UI was almost completely frozen. after a while it started working nicely though15:39
timelesshrm, interesting, did it reboot or just clear up naturally?15:40
fragmentit just cleared up15:40
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timelessjeremiah: fwiw, it happened shortly after the official launch15:40
fragmentit wasn't a surprise really that the firmware was in that state then ;)15:40
fragmentI've been playing with another device at work lately.. no problems at all15:41
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jeremiahah, okay15:41
timelessas far as i'm concerned 90% of the product isn't a secret because of those 5 or so devices :)15:41
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timelesswhich week was it btw?15:42
timelessanyway, i'll have access to laptops  and stuff in an hour or so15:43
timelessi'll upload my photos, back up my data, and grab a newer emmc+ssw flash15:43
fragmenttimeless: it was on 3rd of september15:44
timelesstwo weeks w/ just two n900s and charging cables15:44
timelessyou didn't check about?15:44
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fragmenthm?15:45
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* timeless ponders15:47
timelesssp3000: speaking of which, is the copyright link fixed? :)15:47
timelessfragent: for the specific image version15:48
fragmenttimeless: nope.15:48
timelessnext time ;)15:49
timelessalways do that when you visit things15:49
timelesswhat win ver, what ie/ff ver, what maemo ver...15:49
fragmentI was more interested in the build quality at the time ;)15:49
zeenixhi15:51
zeenixwhile trying to edit my profile on maemo.org i encountered some serious issue, who should i talk to?15:52
X-Fadezeenix: me?15:52
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timelessfile a bug ;)15:57
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timelessx-fade: someone still owes me a privacy fix15:59
timelessi don't like people seeing my last name (-) ;)16:00
timelessok, 8m in prague, now owhow do i get where i'm going? :)16:03
jeremiahAll roads lead to the Castle.16:05
lopzgm ;)16:07
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eichihello, my internal memory seems to be full16:08
eichiare there some folders, growing with the time?16:09
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eichior is the only thing, i can do: uninstall apps16:09
jeremiaheichi: Memory? Or disk space?16:10
eichidisk space16:10
eichiwhat about /var/cache16:10
eichi18mb16:10
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Meizirkki_webircAnyone here has Google Wave account?16:20
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RST38hhttp://maemo.org/packages/view/mc/16:22
RST38hOh wait, wrong url. Right one: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/01/qt_future/16:22
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javispedrogreat.16:26
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eichijeremiah, hello again16:27
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eichiwhat folders i can search for cleaning up some space on the device16:27
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eichisaw only /var/cache/apt at the moment16:27
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AStormyay, according to that, symbian shall die :)16:30
AStormfrom lack of developers.16:30
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jeremiaheichi: Hi there16:37
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jeremiaheichi: Well, aptitude has a command called "autoclean" which removes a lot of old cruft.16:38
jeremiahI'll see if apt-get has it too16:38
* jeremiah reads man page for apt-get16:38
jeremiahYup - try `apt-get clean` and `apt-get autoclean`16:39
eichiapt-get clear16:39
jeremiahThey should remove stale packaging artefacts16:39
jeremiah"clean"16:39
jeremiahnot clear16:39
jeremiah:)16:39
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eichiyeah i see16:40
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eichistrange, doenst made much space16:42
eichiless then 1mb and var cache apt is 18mb again16:42
javispedroclean removes contents of /var/cache/apt, which you already did I guess.16:42
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javispedrohm.16:43
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Myrtti♥ jeremiah16:43
Myrtticloser the maemo summit is, more depressed I am that I need to attend a wedding16:43
zerojayMore depressed I am that I can't go despite sponsorship.16:43
penguinbaitis it your wedding?16:43
penguinbaitheh16:44
RST38has long as it is not your wedding...16:44
X-FadeMyrtti: 3 day wedding?16:44
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MyrttiX-Fade: it's on Saturday16:44
MyrttiFriday for travel, Sunday for hangover16:44
X-FadeMyrtti: Ah, worst case possible :(16:45
Myrttipenguinbait: no16:45
penguinbaitI always think I am being ignored, I must have a horrible lag16:45
MyrttiI had a horrible lag16:46
SpeedEvil /ping nickserv16:46
penguinbaitbetter than a horrible hag ;)16:46
penguinbait /ping nickserv16:46
MyrttiI am a horrible hag, how did you know?16:46
Myrtti:-D16:46
SpeedEvil(to see if you have horrible lag I mean.16:46
penguinbaitI know I copied and pasted your space the first time16:47
penguinbait<------ lazy16:47
penguinbaitshhhh16:47
javispedro*nickserv overloads due to elevated number of pings16:47
* sp3000 likes it when debian ships useful config file updates16:48
sp3000--- /etc/mysql/my.cnf   2009-09-25 21:02:36.000000000 +030016:48
sp3000+++ /etc/mysql/my.cnf.dpkg-new  2009-09-02 23:52:18.000000000 +030016:48
sp3000@@ -51,26 +51,28 @@16:48
sp3000 key_buffer             = 16M16:48
sp3000 max_allowed_packet     = 16M16:48
sp3000 thread_stack           = 128K16:48
javispedrodebian shipping updates????16:48
sp3000-thread_cache_size      = 816:48
sp3000+thread_cache_size       = 816:49
wjtzerojay: :(16:49
thopiekarsp3000: pastebin please!16:49
sp3000the testing distro, not sta(b)le :)16:49
eichijavispedro, clean doenst do anything, cache folder is big as before16:49
eichii did not removed it by hand16:49
sp3000thopiekar: that's not too long. because I say so :)16:49
eichiseems to be a complicated structure16:49
Myrttisp3000: kittens cry16:49
Myrttisp3000: it's too long, because kittens cry16:49
Myrttialso: CHEESECAKE16:50
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javispedroeichi: "apt-get clean" should clean everything under /var/cache/apt/archives16:50
* sp3000 is really pleased to have that new space that makes the config entries not align, very exciting update16:50
Myrttiof course apt-get clean needs to be run as root...16:51
javispedrosp3000: your fault for editing config files. you should use ubuntu and let it magically work for you!!16:51
* Myrtti is stating the obvious16:51
eichijavispedro, i know, bit the command need quater a second and doesnt say anything16:51
eichimaybe the maemo apt has removed this?16:51
javispedrono.16:51
eichiyeah, but i'm not supid ;D it did not clean anything16:52
javispedrowhat it's /var/cache/apt/archives?16:52
javispedrohow many *.deb files?16:52
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zerojaywjt: ?16:53
sp3000you wanted the pastebin, you got the pastebin, in fact the best pastebin in the world, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/67384216:53
eichino16:53
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eichithere is a pkgcache.bin file with 16mb16:53
eichithats the problem16:53
javispedrodo you have an apt instance running?16:54
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javispedroapplication manager, etc.?16:54
eichino16:54
zerojaywjt: Oh, about Summit... yeah. Combination of work, lack of money, passport crap, a large move to Halifax in a few weeks, etc...16:54
lardmanhow are you measuring the free space?16:54
lardmanthis is on a jffs2 fs I presume?16:54
wjtzerojay: that's a shame16:55
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javispedroa 16MiB pkgcache is not normal. my tablet's one is 3MiB and my host lenny's one is 11MiB16:56
javispedroeichi: try "apt-get check"16:56
Mekbe glad you don't have the internal maemo5 repository enabled, witht that you have 50MB in total for pkgcache...16:57
Meks/internal/nokia internal/16:57
infobotMek meant: be glad you don't have the nokia internal maemo5 repository enabled, witht that you have 50MB in total for pkgcache...16:57
javispedroMek: more packages than Debian? O.o16:58
Mekaparently they don't remove old versions of packages in that repo...16:58
javispedrolol16:58
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lizardohi, just a random question:  which simple examples would you like to see written in Python ?17:06
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zerojaywjt: Yeah... tell me about it. I've never been over to Europe... never have the cash for something like that, so it would have been just amazing. Always next year, I guess.17:07
X-Fadelizardo: Desktop applet with contacts on an OSM map please ;)17:08
RST38hWhat if none of them are around? =)17:09
wjtzerojay: hope so17:09
lizardoX-Fade: hey, looks an interesting idea :) reminds me of those cool Qt examples from Qt labs17:11
lizardoanyone else? it is not a formal poll , just a random question to get the Python + Maemo community feelings on the topic :)17:12
X-Fadelizardo: Simple desktop plugin? Sharing plugin example?17:15
X-Fadedeskop widget, I mean.17:15
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lizardoX-Fade: something like http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/HildonDesktop  or a little more comple?17:16
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lizardos/comple/complex/17:16
infobotlizardo meant: X-Fade: something like http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/HildonDesktop  or a little more complex?17:16
X-Fadelizardo: That looks reasonable already IMHO.17:17
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lizardoRST38h: I might just ask at another timezone :)17:23
lizardoRST38h: no big deal, though17:23
lizardo(at least for now)17:23
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lizardoBTW, I feel that there are a couple of silent Python + Maemo developers out there17:24
lardmananyone here in the USofA?17:25
lizardothey just learn how to do it by themselves :) but I would like to help those that see Python as a good first language to play with, and just happen to have NXXX around :)17:25
adeusmaybe you should ask about the python examples on the mailing list17:26
lardmanif there are any American's about, could you send me a barcode that should be pretty popular, something like a can of coke perhaps?17:27
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lardmanthanks17:27
lardmans/'s/s17:27
lizardoadeus: sure, I'll do at some point, this was just a small social experiment , I would say :)17:28
X-Fadelardman: http://media.nowpublic.net/images/59/b/59bf80554ef34c402ca872932235c91b.jpg17:28
X-Fadelardman: http://blog.lightninglabels.com/.a/6a00d834517f9d69e201157063df7a970b-800wi17:28
adeusirc is only good for "I want my answer right now only for myself" kind of thigs :)17:28
lardmanX-Fade: thanks17:29
lizardoin a side story, I was very impressed that the guys that worked on the first Push N900 demos used Python... I just hope they used PyMaemo packages :)17:29
X-Fadelardman: Google image search,  you slacker ;)17:29
lardmansorry, tired17:29
lardmanhmm, didn't match anyway17:29
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lardmannot sure what http://www.checkupc.com/ indexes in that casre17:30
lardmanfinally managed to match something http://www.checkupc.com/product-25431517:31
X-Fadelardman: This one rocks!! http://www.stylink.nl/images/stories/gespot-interieur/qr_cocacola.jpg17:32
lardmancool, qr code17:33
X-FadeThe barcode app on my N95 doesn't like it ;)17:33
lardmanI'll see if mine does17:34
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lardmanhmm, no wget on device; going to make it hard to download latest version17:35
SpeedEvil  curl?17:35
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lardmanhmm core dump17:38
lardmannot ideal ;)17:38
lardmanwill save it and try with N800 when I get home17:39
X-Fadelol17:39
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lardmanI've only been testing on N800 and it's fine there, promise!17:39
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romaxaX-Fade: ping17:49
X-Faderomaxa: here.17:50
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romaxaX-Fade: I have 2 accounts on maemo.org, romaxa and romaxa_xz... password from romaxa I don't remember, and using romaxa_xz...17:50
romaxaX-Fade: is it possible to merge romaxa_xz into -> romaxa and move password from romaxa_xz to romaxa?17:51
X-Faderomaxa: No, merging is not possible.17:51
* lardman thanks God that his presentation is only 20min long17:51
X-FadeYou can reset your password yourself?17:51
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X-Faderomaxa: https://garage.maemo.org/account/lostpw.php17:52
X-Faderomaxa: And I can delete an account of course..17:53
lcukpenguinbait,17:53
lizardoX-Fade: BTW, I still have that strange problem:  even if I change my main e-mail to my openbossa.org address, it keeps being reset to gmail.com one a few hours later :(17:53
romaxaX-Fade: would it be possible to delete romaxa, and rename romaxa->romaxa_xz?17:53
X-Fadelizardo: Change it at garage.17:53
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X-Fadelizardo: It syncs from there.17:53
lizardoX-Fade: I did a bug report on that , but no progress so far... no big deal , but my karma will always be around 35 that way :)17:54
lizardoX-Fade: hmm, didn't know about it17:54
X-Faderomaxa: No, I can't rename because it is used in multiple services.17:54
lizardoX-Fade: it would be nice if that information is put on the "edit profile" page in maemo.ogr17:54
lizardos/ogr/org/17:54
infobotlizardo meant: X-Fade: it would be nice if that information is put on the "edit profile" page in maemo.org17:55
X-Fadelizardo: We will have SSO soon, so this whole mess is gone then.17:55
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lardmanlcuk: sorry mate, bit short of cash atm (what with a week in Europe next week & needing to get paid for conf in Blackpool), but will buy you some beer & food if/when(!) you make it over to Amsterdam18:02
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lcuklardman, totally understand.  hope to see you there too :)18:04
* Myrtti huggles lcuk 18:07
lcukMyrtti :D18:07
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lcuki got your mail, ive just been out most of the day18:08
Myrttiyeah - email is noninstant media18:08
Myrttiand I hate email myself18:08
Myrttigetting email usually means something is wrong18:08
lcuktheres nothing wrong with any ive had in the last 24hours18:09
lcukwith some of the very kind words and actions its been a bit hard to see the screen at times18:09
Myrtti:-)18:09
RST38hmoo lcuk18:11
RST38hlcuk: you are still going, right?18:11
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lcukif i get over this hiccup yeah :)18:11
MyrttiI have personal issues with paypal, and I refuse to get an account. I might ask Dunk if he'd deduct some money I gave to him to cover some of the expenses of my forthcoming visit and pop it your way, if he has (as I think) an account18:11
SpeedEvilPaypal is awesome.18:12
SpeedEvilAnd sucky.18:12
SpeedEvilSo is ebay.18:12
MyrttiI don't use either18:12
* SpeedEvil is sitting on a sofa from ebay (well, lying), listening to a radio from ebay, typing on a laptop from ebay, through a DSL modem from ebay.18:13
MyrttiI've bought a set of stickers for making an UK keyboard to a Finnish one by proxy from ebay.18:13
SpeedEvilAnd watching fish that also came from...18:13
Stskeepsbought your soul on ebay? :P18:14
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SpeedEvilNo, koi. :)18:14
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SpeedEvilAlso bought _lots_ of real hardcore.18:15
SpeedEvil(50-100mm granite, delivered)18:15
GeneralAntilles"Applications menu"18:18
GeneralAntillesAh, Nokia, your strings are beautiful. Don't even let anybody tell you otherwise.18:18
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Stskeepsi still like the Mer... string18:19
Stskeeps:P18:19
RST38hHow about integers?18:21
RST38h(and, by the way, if you do not like Nokia strings you should check out what Chinese cell phone watch has)18:22
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coldbootDoes anyone often get "no route to host" when you try to ssh to your device?18:24
RST38hyes.18:24
RST38hit is power save.18:24
Corsacwifi pm, I guess18:24
Stskeepscoldboot: this is fairly normal with PSM18:24
Stskeepscoldboot: opposite should work fine though18:24
RST38hwake up your device and go visit some web page18:25
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ULS0anyone knows if it will be realease a new firmware for the N95?18:25
StskeepsULS0: not really our topic here :)18:25
Corsacnot sure it's the best place to ask :)18:25
ULS0sorry, jajajaj i know18:25
RST38hULS0: Three virgins and 5 heads of cattle of your choice18:26
RST38hULS0: Usual procedure (pentagram in blood, cacrificial fire at the center, no messing with those virgins!)18:26
RST38hs/c/s18:26
ULS0jajajajajaj ok18:26
ULS0lulz18:27
Corsacvirgins are overrated anyway18:27
* SpeedEvil is disturbed that two of the cattle are not virgins.18:28
coldbootStskeeps: What if the device is actually on?18:28
coldbootStskeeps: Oh just wifi powersave, ok.18:28
timelessgan: where's that string?18:28
Stskeepscoldboot: basically the client polls the wifi ap for data18:29
* timeless arrived at a place with access to stuff and is about to reflash18:29
GeneralAntillestimeless, manual.18:29
GeneralAntillesen_US18:29
timelessime they refuse to fix anything18:30
timelessbut please encourage them to consider being ....18:30
GeneralAntillesPage 1518:30
javispedrothose evil miswriters ;)18:30
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* javispedro sees the closed source packages tmo thread is still alive18:34
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javispedroah, the infrared port is not IrDA.18:35
Stskeepsrm_you: we could use a fremantle status area thing for ABL :)18:36
rm_youStskeeps: you mean a fremantle port?18:36
rm_youStskeeps: theres a beta for it18:36
Stskeepsactually we're moving to fremantle desktop now, so yeah18:36
luke-jrjavispedro: link?18:36
Stskeepsinteresting18:36
rm_youI haven't commited18:36
rm_you*committed the code18:36
rm_youcause i've been lazy <_<18:36
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rm_youbut you can grab the deb18:37
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javispedroluke-jr: IrDA? n900 manual: http://nds1.nokia.com/files/support/nam/phones/guides/Nokia_N900_Rover_en-US_es-LAM.pdf18:37
rm_youit ... doesn't change the backlight <_< for some reason18:37
rm_youtrying to figure out why18:37
Stskeepscommitting code could help18:37
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rm_youlol yeah18:37
Stskeepswe will start having fremantle UI in next version so18:37
rm_youi mean, the only things that changed were the UI code18:37
rm_youyeah18:37
rm_youkk18:37
rm_youwill get on that18:38
Stskeepssounds cool18:38
luke-jrjavispedro: no, link to closed pkg list18:38
rm_youi was waiting till i figured out exactly how i was gonna do it18:38
rm_youcause they aren't really... compatible18:38
rm_youi may commit a branch for ABL-fremantle18:38
rm_youand maintain them seperately <_<18:38
javispedroluke-jr: I don't have a closed pkg list, but if you mean the tmo thread, that does not contain a closed pkg list: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31967&goto=newpost18:38
rm_youStskeeps: thoughts?18:38
lcukmove abl and implant it directly in users eyes18:39
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rm_youlol lcuk18:39
Stskeepsrm_you: eating pizza, ask in a bit18:39
rm_youlolk18:39
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rm_youStskeeps: one of these works: http://flux.myvnc.com/advanced-backlight_0.16-1_armel.deb http://flux.myvnc.com/advanced-backlight_0.16-2_armel.deb18:43
javispedro"Only packet data connections can be used for A-GPS service". Haha. Ha. Ha. .... *sigh*18:44
Corsacthat means no wifi?18:45
javispedro"A wireless LAN (WLAN) access point cannot be used for this service"18:45
woglindehm last evening I had cool idea for localization18:46
RST38hjavis: bullshit?18:46
javispedroRST38h: straight from N900 Manual.18:46
RST38hjavis: why does my n810 happily use WiFi for AGPS?18:46
woglindescanning for aps and mark points where you get 5 essid's18:46
javispedroRST38h: wild guess: they didn't want to put a world map widget to select your current location.18:47
rangeRST38h: Because it has no packet data connections? >:)18:47
RST38hwoglinde: You do understand that you are not the first? :)18:47
woglinderst yes18:47
RST38hrange: Yea, that would be a big problem =)18:47
woglinderst but where are the osm-maps for that?18:48
GeneralAntillesandre__, where the hell do you want user documentation bugs?18:48
GeneralAntillesAh, nevermind.18:48
RST38hwoglinde: google for "skyhook"18:48
GeneralAntillesFound it.18:48
javispedro"Almost all digital cartography is inaccurate". Thanks for selling it to us a hefty price then!18:48
javispedros/a/at a18:48
RST38hwoglinde: there are also OSS services for that but they are not very numerous18:48
andre__GeneralAntilles, it's called "User Guide" ;-)18:48
RST38hjavis: Do they mention checking if the mapped roads actually exist?18:48
GeneralAntillesandre__, have hardly filed any bugs in the past 6 months. :\18:49
javispedroRST38h: they don't; there's just the usual disclaimer "never rely on this device solely".18:49
andre__GeneralAntilles, slacker! ;-)18:49
luke-jrRST38h: this is why you should join me in protesting a closed device18:50
GeneralAntillesandre__, I blame Nokia. :/18:50
andre__well. there wasn't much sense in the last 6 months either18:50
andre__yeah18:50
RST38hluke: Ok, I will not egg you, will just stare at you sadly18:50
luke-jrRST38h: if it were open, you could put the N810's wifi A-GPS into the N900's18:50
RST38hReally? In spite of them using different GPS chips?18:51
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X-Fadeluke-jr: That would make no sense at all.18:51
* javispedro wonders if i "relying solely" in one inaccurate cartography is really worse than relying solely in two inaccurate maps.18:51
luke-jrRST38h: yes18:51
luke-jrRST38h: the A-GPS is mostly fetching satellite data online18:51
woglindeRST38h I only knowed this from gsm cells18:52
* javispedro also wonders if the ir port is fast enough to do at least some kind of slow soft irda18:52
RST38hwoglinde: The location by wifi has also been tried usually on the local scale, because wifi aps change so much18:52
X-Fadejavispedro: No incoming signal?18:52
javispedroX-Fade: ah, that would be quite a showstopper :P18:52
woglindeRST38h hm18:53
X-Fadejavispedro: It states in the manual that it can not be used for irda ;)18:53
javispedroX-Fade: yeah, but I did not know it was a receiver only. Makes sense tho.18:53
X-Fadejavispedro: transmitter only.18:53
GeneralAntillesandre__, any news on Bugzilla updates?18:53
javispedroer.. that. Sorry ;)18:54
X-Fadejavispedro: That is why irreco works natively this time.18:54
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javispedroX-Fade: no receiver means no learning though.18:55
Maceryawn18:55
Macerwaiting for this damn touchbook to ship out18:55
Macerand it still hasn't shipped out yet :-\18:55
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X-Fadejavispedro: Indeed. But it used default lirc, so not really a big deal.18:55
andre__GeneralAntilles, flooded with Fremantle work currently. Ferenc did some stuff, while I need to do some more CSS stuff...18:55
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Macerlirc!18:56
Da_Vincijuego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html18:56
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rm_youX-Fade: help <_<18:57
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rm_youX-Fade: still getting emails every day from garage saying i have a message waiting in the mailing list queue for pyshop, and I can't figure out how to clear it18:57
rm_youX-Fade: have been for the last... year.18:57
rm_youit's annoying <_<18:57
johnxhi rm_you18:58
johnxbye rm_you18:58
rm_youlol18:58
rm_youhi/bye johnx18:58
* johnx heads to work18:58
X-Faderm_you: Can't you just use the forgot password option?18:58
rm_youi don't think it worked but i will try again18:59
X-Faderm_you: Hmm then I can reset the list password for you.18:59
rm_youStskeeps: i suppose i should change my "other projects" to stop saying "Mer 1.0" :P lol18:59
rm_youX-Fade: give me a sec I will try it...19:00
X-Faderm_you: bbl, have to step out now. Will be back in an hour or so..19:00
rm_youk19:00
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rm_youX-Fade: I just don't see the option19:00
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fiferboyWhat is the size of XB-Maemo-Icon-26 in fremantle?19:02
javispedro4819:02
javispedrox48.19:02
fiferboyjavispedro: Thanks!19:02
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purevolyo qwert1219:12
qwerty12Hi19:12
purevolhows it going?19:12
qwerty12All good here, thanks, how about you?19:13
javispedrohi qwerty13.19:13
zerojayJaffa: Ping?19:13
qwerty12qwerty13 is dead. :)19:13
purevolit was suggest that i shout you out to do some stuff with android on the n810...im good also thanks..at work but..alas19:13
purevol!seen qwerty1319:13
purevolno bot to announce that death...sorry19:13
qwerty12purevol: lol, you really don't want to ask me... Not sure what I was doing in the first place, and I don't really like Android if the truth be told :)19:13
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javispedronoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not more resistive capacite crap19:14
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purevolhah, well if you have any docs that would be rad, i would like to attempt to port the OAA version of android over to the n81019:14
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purevolplus i cant do any android hacking cause where i live there is no tmobz19:15
purevolalthough i did build eclips and the android sdk, but its just not the same19:15
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qwerty12purevol: Did you look at the NITdroid project? http://guug.org/nit/nitdroid/ - it's probably the most recent thing that there is (and that's not saying much, in all honesty...)19:16
lardmanbbl19:16
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purevolyeah i saw that, project looks dead19:16
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purevoli think i may have emailed the dude also19:20
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purevolis there a good document out there, that tells me about the hardware in the n810, and how it system calls are done in relation to the maemo build?19:22
purevolthat would probably be a good place to start/baseline19:22
zerojayWhy some users want MMS on N900: http://hollywoodphony.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/iphone-mms-penis-pictures-crash-servers/19:22
AStorm;p19:23
AStormWIN!19:23
zerojay:)19:23
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qwerty12Funny... I thought men with small dicks got the iPhone to try and make up for the lack of inches in some way...19:24
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RST38hqwerty: The secret is in the iPhone camera distortions19:26
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purevoloh splitoriffic!19:28
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luke-jrStskeeps: from what I see, DSME was only even requested for being opened because of things Nokia removed before opening it19:34
luke-jrwhat was opened of DSME is useless AFAIK19:35
rm_youanyone have any clue how to change the brightness now in fremantle?19:35
rm_youapparently DSME no longer does it?19:35
rm_youneed to figure out what handles it now <_<19:35
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rm_youand i guess i'm practically the only person in the channel without a device in front of me to test on? :P19:37
Myrttino you're not19:37
Myrttithough I have nothing to test19:37
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rm_youyeah, i know... feels like it sometimes tho <_<19:37
Myrttiit's just the loud kids making a lot of noise of their new toy19:38
rm_youI would like a new toy :)19:38
rm_youbut i don't know if i have time for it anyway19:38
luke-jrStskeeps: no matter how strong the community, it won't solve problems with proprietary blobs19:38
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qwerty12rm_you: All the stuff taken out of DSME was moved to MCE... A GConf key is watched19:44
rm_youqwerty12: that's it? it just watches a gconf key for the brightness change?19:45
rm_youqwerty12: do you know which key?19:45
qwerty12The values accepted by that key is the same as Diablo: 1-519:45
rm_youerrr19:45
rm_youok no, not that19:45
rm_youdirectly changing the brightness19:46
qwerty12You'll have to get a device to find out how it does the actual changing :)19:46
qwerty12Yep19:46
rm_youblegh19:46
rm_youyeah19:46
rm_youso i guess my first task at the summit will be *actually making ABL work*19:46
rm_youwas hoping to have that done beforehand <_<19:46
rm_youk well, bbl19:46
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Sargun_ScreenOk, so ship date is mid-october now.19:51
Sargun_ScreenIs this blasphemy?19:51
Sargun_ScreenYes, yes it is.19:52
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CorsacSargun_Screen: an actual ship date?19:59
Sargun_ScreenCorsac: most people are reporting late october19:59
Sargun_Screennothing official.19:59
Corsacyeah20:00
ccookeThe way this month is working out... I might thank them if I end up paying from November's pay :-)20:00
Corsacexpansys oscillates between oct 22 and oct 2920:00
Sargun_Screenhehe20:00
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lardmanevening all20:02
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pupnikevenin lardman20:02
lardmanhi pupnik20:03
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lardmanX-Fade: well mbarcode decodes it and asks if I want to open http://www.setjapan.com/20:07
lardmanX-Fade: though derf is the one to thank as it's his QR decoder20:07
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lardmananyone seen problems with destroying a gtk dialog?20:08
Stskeepsluke-jr: blah blah20:09
Stskeepsrm_you: any screenshots?20:10
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Stskeepsluke-jr: can we just agree to disagree cos it's a colossal waste of time for both of us to discuss these topics over and over again?20:14
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rm_youStskeeps: yeah sec20:17
StskeepsSDK screenshot is perfectly fine20:18
coldbootEven with power saving wifi off for the specific wifi connection I've got, I can't ssh until I "use the network" on the device.20:18
Stskeepscoldboot: might be an AP device then20:18
derflardman: I'm actually pretty impressed that worked.20:22
lardmanyou saw the jpg?20:22
lardmanme too, very good work :)20:22
rm_youStskeeps: http://flux.myvnc.com/screenshot05.png http://flux.myvnc.com/screenshot03.png20:23
rm_youlooks like crap on the sdk so those are from someone's tablet with the beta20:23
Stskeepsmm, my issue is really if it is showing up in the task area20:24
Stskeepserr20:24
Stskeepsstatus area20:24
rm_youoh20:24
rm_yousec20:24
Stskeepsand how it is20:25
Stskeepsfeel free to msg me it20:25
rm_youhttp://flux.myvnc.com/ABL2.png20:25
rm_youthat is totally not what the applet itself looks like now20:25
rm_youbut you can see it there in the taskbar20:25
Stskeepsokay, did you see the fremantle status area?20:25
rm_you?20:26
Stskeepssec20:26
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Stskeepsbasically when you click the status area above, it pops up something like:20:26
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rm_youhttp://flux.myvnc.com/ABL1.png20:26
rm_youthat?20:26
Stskeepsright20:26
Stskeepsbut.. :20:26
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rm_you?20:27
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Stskeepshave to find a screenshot for reference :)20:28
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rm_youdunno why the sdk has horrible graphics bugs on my computer <_<20:29
rm_youor is it all computers20:29
RST38hall20:29
qwerty12rm_you: having to press on the label to bring up its controls is a little anal (although, admittedly, you don't have vast amounts of space available):/ : Look at the volume control here: http://my-symbian.com/other/grafika/scr11.jpg20:30
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rm_youoh, can you AVOID that annoying middle step?20:30
rm_youahwhat?20:31
Stskeepsnot sure20:31
rm_youwhose app is that?20:31
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Stskeepsthat's a task area from fremantle, with maemo5-load-applet20:31
Stskeepsi think20:31
qwerty12All of the applets there are by Nokia, except for the load applet in the bottom-right corner20:32
lardmanmmmm, wine20:32
unixSnobsummit 2009 registration is closed.. does that mean it's fully booked?20:32
rm_youhrm, so if that is the official volume app? then ABL can go back to JUST being "advanced backlight" instead of "combine 100 things into one"20:33
qwerty12rm_you: I can't say anything but you'll probably crack up when you realise how the actual changing of the brightness is done20:33
rm_youqwerty12: wait, you know?20:33
qwerty12rm_you: That's what I'd prefer, personally20:33
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Stskeepsrm_you: i would write many different applets tbh20:33
qwerty12rm_you: did some looking, but I really can't say anything20:34
Stskeepslike, backlight, volume, rotation20:34
rm_youyeah20:34
rm_youwell20:34
rm_youno point in volume is there20:34
rm_youthe official one is fine20:35
Stskeepscould still be good to have a alsamixer type one for mer, or a generic hook thing20:35
rm_youwe'll see... i guess i was more out of the loop than i thought20:35
Stskeepsheck, i was blind regarding fremantle status area for a while20:36
rm_youi'll give up on having a working beta for the summit, i'll just have to get ahold of a device there and play around for a bit and fix it then20:36
* Stskeeps looks at his roadmap paper20:36
rm_youqwerty12: can't say anything because you don't KNOW anything, or you aren't ALLOWED to say anything?20:37
Stskeepsrm_you: rather rude to ask people that question :)20:37
rm_youlol20:37
rm_youwell, it makes a difference to how i have to approach things :P20:37
qwerty12rm_you: the latter.20:37
rm_yousrsly? roger20:37
qwerty12But it's as easy as fuck, believe me20:37
Stskeepsrm_you: we're having 0.17 out in week 45 (testing week 44), with new desktop, so if you're interested in making small useful statusbar applets, we need help :P20:38
rm_youqwerty12: you mean, it would be easy for me to code the changing? or like, it really is easy by default?20:38
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lcukqwerty12, then prepare a patch based on the current abl api, so it will be easy for adam to change over when you see him20:38
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lcuk/when we see him20:39
rm_youqwerty12: in your opinion with whatever it is that you know that i don't, is there really even a necessity for ABL to exist? >_>20:39
rm_youlcuk: so you going to make it?20:39
lcukill bring it personally... :)20:39
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rm_youqwerty12_N810: in your opinion with whatever it is that you know that i don't, is there really even a necessity for ABL to exist? >_>20:39
rm_youlcuk: get enough donations/etc to make it to the summit?20:40
qwerty12_N810rm_you: You can see from that status area screenshot that there isn't even an applet to switch it from 1-5 :)20:40
rm_youlol yeah so is it like a hardware knob? :P20:40
PeeperWhen maemo 6 will be released, will N900 be able to update tht?20:41
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qwerty12_N810Fuck, I'd be ecstatic if someone made a simple applet to just switch from 1-520:42
rm_youqwerty12_N810: wait, did it get WORSE again? :P20:42
rm_youroflcopter?20:42
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Stskeepsrm_you: simple status area applet could be interesting really. give it icon and an area to draw into, and simple callback stuff :P20:46
Stskeepsso it would be easy for people to pick up on20:46
rm_youhrmrm20:48
rm_youbrb20:48
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Stskeepslike, a bar, a slider, toggles :P20:50
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unixSnobmuahaha.. i found a backdoor way to register for summit 2009, and i'm not tellin anyone.. muahaha20:53
StskeepsunixSnob: sleeping with maemo.org admins doesn't count20:53
qwerty12_N810unixSnob: You'll also be chucked out of the backdoor when you go :p20:54
* unixSnob makes a note not to put unixsnob on his name tag20:54
lcukrm_you, yes thank you20:54
lcukand thank you to everyone else :)20:55
lcuki will be coming to the summit \o/20:55
Myrttiyou are? brilliant20:55
MyrttiI was just poking Dunk to put a bit of moneyz on your way20:55
qwerty12_N810lcuk: glad to hear it. Does reduced funds mean De Wallen is off the list?20:55
MyrttiI'll poke him still20:56
lcuk:$ Myrtti thank you20:56
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lcukit was never on the list in the first place qwerty20:56
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qwerty12_N810Right. :)20:57
Myrttilcuk: I'll still be awaiting for the chances for after work beer though, and hope that pulls off ;-)20:57
lcukme too Myrtti20:57
Myrttilcuk: so don't think for a moment you're through with me :-D20:57
lardmanwhat do you mean, Holly wants to go there20:57
lcukive got a lot of people to talk to at the summit20:57
qwerty12_N810lardman: wtf, you serious?20:57
lcukand hope there will be a way for me to remain as active in the community as i currently am20:57
zerojaylcuk: Live blog, please.!I can't go even with sponsorship this year. :/20:57
lardmanyeah20:57
lcuki feel at home and relaxed here and we get a lot of people started20:57
lardmanqwerty12_N810: she wants to see what it's like20:57
qwerty12_N810lardman: Maybe she's looking for new ideas... ;)20:57
lardmangreat! ;)20:58
lardmansupper, bbiam20:58
lardmans/m/b20:58
lcuks/m/b  is that something new to do in de wallen?20:58
qwerty12_N810it's missing a "/d"20:59
lcukzerojay, i have n900 - liqbase has live upload of everything i do20:59
* unixSnob wonders how to hack the shared room allocations to room w/ a hot chick20:59
lcuki hope to have image upload too20:59
lcuki need to remember names this year20:59
lcukand faces20:59
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lcukoh crap, room allocation table20:59
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lcukcould someone update it so me n sampo are marked as sharing20:59
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* unixSnob considers similar female names for registration21:00
lcukor gimme link21:00
lcukunixSnob, with international folks, going on female sounding names isnt right21:00
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unixSnobi'll go as Mandy Olga.. muhaha21:02
unixSnobthat'll get me a room w/ a chick21:02
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Myrttior a kick in the groin21:04
* unixSnob packs nut cup21:05
qwerty12_N810Say that you're transsexual and very sensitive about it21:06
Myrttilcuk: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Accommodation#Shared_Room_Allocations ?21:06
lcukdone it21:06
lcuktis ok!21:06
lcukcos i had to indicate different dates too i forgot about all that21:06
Myrttiplease say I got the right url :-D21:06
unixSnobqwerty12_N810: that's probably the way to get a room to myself21:06
Myrttiok, I did21:06
Myrttiyay21:06
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qwerty12_N810unixSnob: ROFL... true, you can't win :(21:07
lcukits ok, maemo community welcomes those differences21:07
lcukwe are inclusionary21:07
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unixSnoblcuk: but who would have to take a hit for the team and share w/ a tranny?21:08
qwerty12_N810lcuk is proof of that21:08
lcukright now, i will21:08
lcuki'd rather be in amsterdam with a tranny than at home moping about21:08
* Myrtti rolls eyes21:09
RST38hlcuk<-- apparently isn't sure what he is wishing for21:09
lcukand the entire community has made it possible21:09
lcuklol21:09
lcukjust because someone wears makeup and a dress does not mean they are a predator.21:09
RST38hlcuk: think of it as a tour to do some interviewing =)21:09
lcukits more likely those that are repressed..21:09
* lcuk is21:10
rm_youMyrtti: i thought you couldn't make it to the summit?21:10
rm_youcan you now?21:10
Myrttirm_you: I can't21:10
rm_youah :(21:10
qwerty12_N810lcuk: you've been quoted. Enjoy :)21:10
Myrttilcuk: apparently the sum I suggested was doubled21:10
lcuko_O :D then the hugs i will give will be qudrupled21:11
Myrtti(I'll be waiting for my bank statement with certain fear)21:11
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Myrttiit's not as much as I'd want to but it's an amount I don't need to worry21:11
rm_youlcuk: i will still prolly buy you dinner too if 20 other people don't beat me to it, lol21:12
rm_youand now i need to head to work, bbl21:13
lcukthat would be most appreciated rm_you, as you know i still have no idea whether any of this will work :) but i can at least try.21:14
lcukcya later rm_you \o and we will get abl sorted for you21:14
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rm_youlcuk: you sure you want to stay in the UK? You could easily get a job here, prolly starting around $60k US, and the cost of living is so much lower than the UK :P21:14
rm_youthough I suppose given a choice i'd rather be in the UK than here :P21:15
coldbootrm_you: What country is here?21:15
RST38hrm_you: SOme us cities are pretty decent21:15
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rm_youTexas :P almost a country21:15
coldbootYou can easily make 80 or 90k in New York, San Francisco / Silicon Valley, and Boston.21:15
RST38hyep21:15
rm_youthough I'm from Seattle, WA, originally, and i prefer it there21:15
qwerty12_N810Eww, Texas. I'd take London, even, over Texas any day21:15
lcukrm_you, i personally have no problems we just have logistics for the kids to sort out.  thats for another day tho21:16
* RST38h would skip Texas too21:16
rm_youheh yeah true21:16
rm_youlol21:16
rm_youTX is only bad if you're in the middle of nowhere21:16
unixSnobqwerty12_N810: it's spelled Texass21:16
rm_youbig cities are ok :P21:16
coldbootThe downside is you don't get the rich variety of culture in Europe.21:16
rm_youcoldboot: yeah and cost of living in those places is like 2-3x21:16
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qwerty12_N810unixSnob: Where can I enter?21:17
coldbootrm_you: Just means you have a smaller place and less stuff.21:17
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rm_youI'm renting a two story house here for $1850/mo21:18
coldbootrm_you: Where are you?21:18
rm_youSan Antonio21:18
Stskeepsscary shit: powerlaunch works with fremantle desktop21:18
coldbootI've got a studio apartment in Downtown Brooklyn for 1800.21:18
coldbootIt's worth it though, to be in New York.21:19
rm_youi don't know prices off the top of my head for BUYING a house, but a couple of my friends have recently, and it's damn cheap compared to anywhere else i've ever lived21:19
* unixSnob wonders how rent in a stinky republican infested region like texass can be over $1k21:19
rm_youlol21:19
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rm_youunixSnob: $1850 for a HOUSE. it has 5 bedrooms.21:19
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rm_youwe converted another room to a bedroom and we all pay $310/mo each21:20
rm_youbut for someone like lcuk with a family the whole number is the important part21:20
coldbootSan Antonio's population density: 1,084.4/km^2, Toronto: 3,972/km^221:21
unixSnobcounting cattle?21:21
coldbootNew York City: 10,606/km^221:22
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coldbootunixSnob: I don't believe so.21:22
coldbootSo that's why your house is cheap to rent, the population density is pretty sparse.21:23
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rm_youyeah, but it21:23
rm_youit's still a big city21:23
coldbootSpread out over a large area.21:23
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rm_youtrue21:24
rm_you#9 most populous city in the US21:24
coldbootManhattan: 27,490.9/km^2 -- wow21:24
RST38hmameo.org21:24
RST38hcoldboot: people live there?21:24
Pavlovin america, we use miles21:24
Pavlov:-)21:24
coldbootIn Not America, we use Kilometres.21:25
coldbootAnd we spell it like that.21:25
rm_youlol21:25
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rm_youactually, #7 most populous city in the US, this list i'm looking at on wikipedia includes canada, lol21:25
RST38hcoldboot: You mean Canada is not America?21:25
Pavlovnot America, yet*21:26
rm_youlol21:26
RST38hSend the Marines!21:26
rm_youCanada: America's Hat21:26
rm_youCanada is America :P just not the united states of ^_^21:26
RST38htinfoil hat21:27
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qwerty12_N810Canada: Little USA21:27
unixSnobUS citizens like to hijack 'america' as a term for themselves21:27
coldbootWith this new health care reform, it seems the US is finally trying to catch up to Canada from the 1960s. Maybe in a decade or they'll adopt the metric system to catch up with the 70s.21:27
zerojaylol, no kidding.21:27
qwerty12_N810The US had Bush as their President. Good luck catching up.21:28
rm_youi know :( it's a bit depressing21:28
unixSnobbush's stem cell ban has already been overturned21:29
lardmanre21:29
coldbootI'm finding that it really doesn't matter who's president.21:29
coldbootObama's still waging war in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and he's still being aggressive against Iran.21:29
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zerojayIt's not that simple, really.21:30
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unixSnobnato is there too21:30
coldbootSpecifically the unmanned-drone bombing in Pakistan.21:31
coldbootIt's toeing the line.21:31
Emperoyou can't really just stop all operations in middle east and hope for the best21:31
unixSnobnato would be crushed if the US pulled out21:31
Emperoit's a massive mess for him21:31
Emperothanks to bush21:31
unixSnobbush left many messes21:31
rm_youwell now that we've started this, gotta run :P21:32
rm_younot that i don't enjoy talking about how fucked up my country has become21:32
rm_youcan i just move somewhere else for a while? T_T21:32
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coldbootI'm not sure the "fucked up" part is all that new.21:32
AnunakinI want N910 with this new ARM, http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARMCortex-A9_MPCore.html21:32
zerojayAnunakin: I want a pony.21:32
unixSnobhttp://bitsandpieces.us/2008/11/07/i-guess-some-things-never-change/  <= great cartoon on cleaning up bush's mess21:33
Anunakinzerojay:http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Apony&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:pt-BR:official&client=firefox-a21:33
lcukAnunakin, if you wait for the latest and greatest you will never have anything21:34
coldboothahaha21:34
lcukthere is always something better around the corner21:34
lcuki know people that even in the last weeks have got themselves n810s21:34
zerojayAnunakin: Ponyism, obviously!21:34
lcukmainly because they are still kickass tools21:34
coldbootGuys, seriously, wait for the n900.21:35
coldbootI'm playing with it right now, it's an order of magnitude better.21:35
unixSnobthe n900 only supports one sim chip.. screw that21:35
Anunakinlcuk: this new ARM, made a huge gap ...21:35
konttori__Anunakin: I want n910 with that as well!21:36
konttori__It has enough omph to do some wicked stuff!21:36
Anunakin2GHz and dual core ARMlet... is very nice21:36
lcukcoldboot, i am the biggest n900 fan, i know implicitely what they are capable of - but if you want a cheap standard stable platform for something *now* the n810 is more than capable21:36
AnunakinI have one N810...21:36
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lcukthats been the case since the dawn of computers21:37
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zerojayunixSnob: Lol.. almost no phones support more than one.21:37
AnunakinAnd need some way to buy a N90021:37
konttori__3630 (die shrink of the one in n900) would of course make a nice slimmer device21:37
coldbootAren't they being released very soon?21:37
zerojayFew weeks.21:37
lcukkonttori__, cool21:38
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konttori__then again, not having that HUGE camera module would have made n900 already much slimmer21:38
konttori__(yeah, camera module is really the reason for the thickness)21:38
lcukyou have n900 undressing photos?21:38
Vulcanisif it was any thinner, you would cut yourself21:38
SpeedEvilkonttori__: keyboard21:39
AnunakinAny knows the date of N900 on stores?21:39
SpeedEvilthe camera module is probably only 5-6mm deep21:39
zerojayThere isn't one because Nokia does not do that.21:39
SpeedEvilI worked it out, but forgot21:39
coldbootThe n900 uses "MicroB" browser, based on Firefox.21:39
coldbootI'm testing to see if it works with extensions right now.21:39
konttori__umm... nope. But I did get today one final model (so, factory test device) -  quite a lot have had those for a while, but for some reason applications framework forgot to order them. blah. Anyway, no more n00 in the movies ;)21:39
konttori__kb takes space as well. it's that and camera combined.21:40
zerojayIs it actually written on the bezel now?21:40
lcukn00 is cool tho21:40
AnunakinN00 ?21:40
Anunakinhehehe21:40
konttori__all models are marked that until they get a number.21:41
AnunakinN00 needs a ARMv4 tel gcc tools21:41
coldbootYou can install extensions, but the browser is missing so many things because it's been retooled to fit a small screen, that most extensions don't work.21:41
konttori__I learned the number only 2 or 3 weeks before launch21:41
coldbootBut if you had an extension that did something non-interface associated, it would probably work.21:41
Anunakinhuahauhauhuahua21:41
konttori__(again, most of the people knew it for longer)21:41
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lardmanwriting web scraping code is rather dull21:42
* SpeedEvil nods.21:42
SpeedEvilAnd _sTUPID_21:42
* SpeedEvil sighs.21:42
lardmanpourquoi?21:43
SpeedEvildigikey and tesco specifically here.21:43
SpeedEvilBoth to address brokenness in the lack of sort by price21:43
lardmanah, well I'm doing Amazon, upcdatabase, checkupc.com, musicbrainz, and isbn.nu21:44
lardmanbut sending a known EAN/ISBn then scraping the results pages21:44
lardmans/n/N21:44
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SpeedEvilyou've seen barcodepedia?21:46
lardmanyeah, already done that one actually21:47
lardmanbig problem is finding barcodes that *do* appear so I can work out how to scrape21:47
lardmannot there, everywhere21:47
lardmantho' Amazon is pretty good21:48
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coldbootHow does scratchbox manage to run arm programs without using the qemu processor emulator?21:48
Stskeepsqemu user level emulation21:49
coldbootI'm trying to figure this out, because under non-deterministic conditions, our build runs really fast or really slow on arm.21:49
unixSnobi would love to get into web scraping.. so much good data out there presented in a lousy barely usable way21:49
lardmancoldboot: it does run arm21:49
unixSnobwhat's a good language for web scraping/21:49
lardmanunixSnob: just sit down with the source and strstr() fn and work out what order you should see stuff21:49
lardmanC ;)21:49
lardmanpython, perhaps?21:50
lardmanPerl I imagine21:50
lcukperl isnt21:50
lcuklol21:50
lardmanI'm writing in C21:50
lcukisnt it21:50
coldbootStskeeps: What might it be doing when it's not using qemu user-level emulation?21:50
* SpeedEvil just uses awk.21:50
unixSnobi was thinking perl would be the choice21:50
lardmanlcuk: ah, capitalisation21:50
unixSnobbut I wonder if any languages are designed for it21:50
* lcuk uses vb21:50
coldbootunixSnob: For web scraping?21:50
Stskeepscoldboot: probably using native binaries21:50
unixSnobcoldboot: yeah21:50
coldbootunixSnob: Definitely Perl, Ruby or Python.21:51
lardmancoldboot: some stuff is also provided by the host system, e.g. gcc21:51
SpeedEvilawk -v RS='<' -v FS='["?21:51
coldbootStay away from C and C++.21:51
lcukunixSnob, anything that parses and gives a DOM back from the tagsoup21:51
SpeedEvil]or similar21:51
lcukthen you can process it using any recursive tree handling code21:51
lardmancoldboot: hey, not my fault I have to use C21:51
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lcukc is good21:51
coldbootlardman: What are you using it for?21:51
lardmanlcuk: not worth the effort I reckon21:51
coldbootlcuk: Not for string manipulation.21:51
lcukweb browsers are mostly written in c21:51
lardmancoldboot: barcode data parsing21:51
lcukand they are good at parsing html21:51
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lardmanlcuk: yeah, but if you only need a few tags, then strstr seems reasonable to me21:52
lcukimpractical21:52
lcukbecause a few tags get changed21:52
lcukand you abuse21:52
lcukand insult21:52
lardmanwell yeah21:52
lcukand change21:52
lcukand hack21:52
lcukand eventually you have a 300tag superwarrior21:52
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lcukbut i couldnt find a decent html to DOM parser when i looked21:53
lcuki just wanted something like the XML dom tree21:53
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lardmanlcuk: well ta the 300 tag point I pass on the maintenance and get someone else to update it ;)21:54
SpeedEvillcuk: firefox extension! :)21:54
lcuk:D21:54
lcukSpeedEvil, lol21:55
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lcuka 300lb gorilla for a quick task :D21:55
slonopotamuslcuk, tagsoup?21:55
lcuklardman, hes right, include microb or fennec as a dependency21:55
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lardmanlol21:55
lcukslonopotamus, tagsoup is the description used for regular website html21:55
lcukits malformed and buggy - due to humans writing it21:56
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slonopotamuslcuk, it's lib name...21:56
lcukahh21:56
* lcuk looks21:56
slonopotamusouch, it's java21:56
lcukbut its written in java21:56
lcuklol21:56
lcukthat might be why i didnt follow lead21:57
slonopotamusmaybe wikipedia page lists other analogues?21:57
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lardman~lart /www.checkupc.com for not actually finding any of lardman's EANs21:57
slonopotamuslooks like not21:57
* infobot shoots /www.checkupc.com in the head for not actually finding any of lardman's EANs21:57
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lardmanhave to start thinking like an American, what would you upload to a barcode db?21:58
lardmandoughnuts?21:58
lardman;)21:58
slonopotamuslcuk, perl HTML::Parse21:58
qwerty12_N810lardman: "How to sue and win"21:59
lcukslonopotamus, im with lardman on this21:59
lcuki use c21:59
lardmanqwerty12_N810: :D21:59
slonopotamuslcuk, http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/phtml.htm lisp :)21:59
lcuk*facepalm*21:59
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unixSnobdid anyone research hotels close to summit 2009?  Are any known to have good tripadvisor ratings?21:59
lcuklisp is one of the best multiproc languages tho isnt it22:00
lardmanah of course, computer stuff22:00
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qwerty12_N810unixSnob: I recommend looking at hotels in the De Wallen region; they charge hourly22:00
Myrttioh dear jebus and all the saints22:00
RST38hYes dear?22:01
slonopotamuslcuk, what about tidy?22:01
Myrtti1997 called, it wants its conference web page back http://www.computerforensicshow.com/22:01
lardmanqwerty12_N810: I was only going to walk by with my wife :p22:01
lardmanI presume that will be the first night outing anyway, who's organising?22:01
unixSnobqwerty12_N810: any around 5€ per hour?22:01
qwerty12_N810lardman: and ogling, by any chance? :)22:02
lardmanlol22:02
qwerty12_N810unixSnob: sure, but you get less service22:02
lardmanqwerty12_N810: Freshers' week this week, am actually feeling old now (and am married of course)22:02
unixSnobqwerty12_N810: well i can forgo the blowjobs.. just bed and breakfast is all i need22:02
lardmanis all you get for 5 Euros these days?!22:03
qwerty12_N810I wonder what breakfast is like in a brothel...22:03
lardmaniirc break fast is ~12 Euros at the main hotel22:03
unixSnoblardman: it's better than that hotel in the states that offers tents22:03
qwerty12_N810Maybe they have a recycling policy... ;)22:03
lardmanqwerty12_N810: don't!22:03
lardmanunixSnob: lol22:03
qwerty12_N810"Dear Sir, would you like our milkshake?"22:04
lardmanWe used to go to a bar under a brothel in Baden22:04
unixSnobthe tent idea was a recession driven.. and supposedly people really do ask to have their bed removed for a discount, and replaced with a tent22:04
lardmanvery interesting lighting, blue strip lights in the bar, red in the brothel22:04
lardmanand they recorked their chamapagne, so I was told22:05
unixSnobi suppose to get the most bang for your buck, you'd get a tent and hire a hooker22:05
qwerty12_N810pun intended? :)22:05
unixSnobyeah, someone to hook up the tent of course!22:05
qwerty12_N810lol22:06
unixSnobyeah.. that's what i meant22:06
GeneralAntillesInteresting thanks. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=337406&postcount=10522:06
GeneralAntillesThey're going to have bad things happen if they don't support the N900 in Harmattan.22:06
GeneralAntillesYou can only drop your users so many times before they simply stop coming back.22:06
RST38hNice way to reveal things without violating nda...22:06
slonopotamuslcuk, http://tidy.sourceforge.net/22:06
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slonopotamuslcuk, cat foo.html | tydy -asxml should do the magic :)22:07
slonopotamuss/ty/ti/22:07
infobotslonopotamus meant: lcuk, cat foo.html | tidy -asxml should do the magic :)22:07
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slonopotamuslcuk, it also has C api22:08
lardmanGeneralAntilles: well as Harmattan requires a 3D display, what is one to do?22:09
lcukslonopotamus, ahhh22:09
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hopefully Mer will be sane at that point to take in harmattan technologies to a point where we don't care :P22:09
RST38hSts: When will Mer be sane btw?22:09
lcukso pushing a page through tidy cleans off the tagsoup and makes it parsable with standard XML parser?22:09
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StskeepsRST38h: when i regain my sanity.. but frankly we're moving in right direction against after everything got turned upside down for a while22:10
RST38hheh22:10
* Stskeeps plays with the new desktop22:10
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slonopotamuslcuk, yep22:12
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AndrewFBlackStskeeps, playing with new computer or new Mer Desktop?22:17
Stskeepsdesktop22:17
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johnsqHi22:19
AndrewFBlackwhy is a guy who doesn't make Maemo themes register a site called N900themes.com and then ask theme makers to move our themes to his site?22:21
Stskeepsadsense?22:21
GeneralAntillesHaha. Kicked. Your. Ass. zerojay. :P22:21
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AndrewFBlackI tried to tell him I can count the number of theme makers on one hand there isn' enough themes to have a site dedicated to them22:22
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffft. :)22:22
zerojayAndrewFBlack: He wants to make cash off of your stuff.22:23
* unixSnob just came accross a dutch-only hotel site.. the only english word on the page is "mice"... don't think I'll stay there22:23
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AndrewFBlackwell I better not see any of my themes end up on his site22:23
* lcuk gets back to business22:24
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lardmanlcuk: wine?22:30
lardman;)22:30
lcukafter the day ive had - surgical spirit22:30
lcukive barely been still and spent most of the night unable to focus on screen22:31
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lardmansteer clear of the meths, the purple dye doens't taste good ;)22:31
lcukyeah22:32
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RST38hmoo wazd22:44
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Stskeepzmoo wazd22:46
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wazdHeya all, back at last)22:47
Stskeepz:)22:48
wazdTomorrow is the day?)22:49
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Stskeepzfor getting out of military? :P22:49
wazdHah, hope to finish it this year))22:49
lcukthe day the military goes live with wazd designed rifles22:50
wazdlcuk: hello kitty edition)22:50
lcuklol knowing your style sense.. :P22:51
* unixSnob wonders if there are any good IV bars in amsterdam22:51
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wazdI'd suggest "Vandersexxx")))22:52
qwerty12_N810wazd: Do you get a free T-Shirt?22:52
wazdqwerty12_N810: sure :P22:53
qwerty12_N810hehe22:53
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JamieBennett:P22:56
JamieBennettStart as you mean to go on :)22:56
Stskeepzmoo? :P22:58
Stskeepzbacon?22:58
Stskeepz:P22:58
lcukJamieBennett, if you are part northern, and part southern - does that make you *arghhh* a brummie?22:58
wazdStskeepz: I do my best to finish most parts of the theme today22:59
JamieBennettlcuk: Don't you dare say that! Remember I'm 6ft 4", 17 stone of ex-rugby player !22:59
JamieBennett;)22:59
Stskeepzwazd: k - no rush, i just need a basic theme by summit22:59
JamieBennettand coming to the summit :)23:00
wazdStskeepz: tough challenge without internets, device and theme maker)23:00
Stskeepzwazd: yeah23:00
lcukhaha23:00
JamieBennetthows things lcuk?23:00
lcukwazd, shout if you need help - talk to andrew too23:01
lcukJamieBennett, overwrought is one word :)23:01
AndrewFBlackwazd, I can put my current diablo theme on hold and help you if needed wazd23:01
lcukastounded by the generosity of others.23:01
JamieBennettlcuk: maybe contract work to tied you over? I did 2 months of *spit* iphone development to "pay the bills"23:02
lcukand remarkably privileged to be a member of such a decent community23:02
lcukwe shall see what comes23:02
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wazdAndrewFBlack: I'm not sure you can, since I'm almost offline23:02
JamieBennettooh, do tell :)23:02
lcukive had a great many leads over hte last 24hours and know a lot of people to speak to23:02
JamieBennettPM of course ;)23:02
AndrewFBlackwhy are you offline?23:02
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wazdAndrewFBlack: moved to new appartments - no connection here23:03
qwerty12_N810wazd: run a cable from your old place23:04
lcukwazd, red cross parcels!23:04
AndrewFBlackwazd, that sucks23:04
lcukwe will literally put a file into a cake for you23:04
wazdqwerty12_N810: hmm, nice idea  :)23:05
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wazdqwerty12_N810: but KGB will ask questions bout 10km cable :)23:05
qwerty12_N810Oh, that's simple: "Do not touch if you value your balls" :p23:06
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lcuk"donttouchtheinternetimdownloadingporn"23:07
lcukerrr themes23:07
lcuk:D23:07
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wazdany news on n900 developer program?) I'm not cool enough to get it for free but my cellphone is dying(23:16
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JamieBennettwadz: I'm looking to that too23:18
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Firebirdanyone have any idea where wireless network keys are stored on the tablet?23:21
qwerty12_N810GConf, look in /system/connectivity/<somewhere>23:21
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Firebirdthanks qwerty12_N81023:22
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