IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-09-19

MrGooselcuk: any chance you were on the underground? because then I can imagine how you found so much time00:00
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lcukno i was on a virgin train from manchester to london using adhoc from laptop to tablet00:00
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Firebirdjavispedro, awesome, *begins work on the next game*00:02
* lcuk sets up git-core 00:02
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woglindegit git git00:02
Firebirdboo, /me hugs svn00:02
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woglindegit-svn00:04
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woglindeFirebird where do you commit if your svn-server is down?00:04
Firebirdto my hard-drive?00:05
javispedrowoglinde: I tatoo my commits on my svn server's admin's head.00:05
johnsqwoglinde: get a better server provider00:05
woglindelol00:05
lbtsvn is for people who can't spell git00:06
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ArSahm... google uses Perforce00:12
zerojayExpensive.00:12
ArSanot terribly00:12
zerojayCompared to free?00:13
ArSacompared to TFS :P00:13
zerojayWe're going to be switching from SVN to Perforce at work soon too.00:13
ArSadoesn't seem to be doing much other than SCM, but i guess it does it very well00:14
ArSa(ms used it)00:15
lcukjavispedro, those commits, let me guess, u use a hammer to actually get the build process working00:16
javispedrothat's when my NFS mounted home is so slow make takes a few minutes to just decide what to do.00:17
zerojayPerforce does a lot more than versioning.00:17
RST38hit brings money!00:18
`0660_what else do you need from a vcs? :)00:18
javispedrozerojay: it kills developers?00:18
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javispedrothe killer VCS!00:18
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* javispedro would hope for a VCS electroshocking the authors of two conflicting commits...00:21
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RST38hAnyone knows how hildon-input-method works?00:21
zerojaylol00:22
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javispedroRST38h: fm. f*** magic.00:24
RST38h:(00:25
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bobbydhi00:26
* rkirti points to the usual suspect -- if (problem.domain = hildon*) { solution.provider = qwerty12_N810}00:26
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javispedroah, object oriented irc.00:26
qwerty12_N810Heh, I really do not (as usual) know anything...00:27
bobbyddoes anyone know if the specs for the 3d hardware in the n900 have been released anywhere?00:27
ShadowJKnope00:28
ShadowJKit's powervr sgx iirc00:28
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lcukjavispedro00:32
lcukany ideas how to deal with these packages properly00:33
lcukso its not a pita for anyone00:33
javispedrowhat packages?00:33
RST38hqwerty: Any idea?00:33
lcukall the liq* ones00:33
RST38hqwerty: Because it is behaving weirdly00:33
lcukim thinking a single bulk package build00:33
lcukRST38h, "weirdly"00:34
lcukdefine please00:34
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lcukand i might be able to help00:34
qwerty12_N810RST38h: No, sorry. But, out of curiosity, weirdly how?00:34
* lcuk bets it has to do with contacts00:34
lardmannight all00:35
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* javispedro ponders wether to download the engadget video or not...00:46
javispedroat least, it'll be worth a good laugh.00:46
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javispedro(I hope :P)00:47
qwerty12_N810Watch it on the iPhone for the best experience...00:47
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b-man16http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/18/olpc-gets-microwaved-molded-into-stunning-piece-of-art/ - this is downright awful >:(01:11
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qpoihas anyone here tried or seen flash video on the n900? if so, is YouTube choppy or stable?01:26
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qpoiI couldn't find any hands on videos with flash being demonstrated01:27
zerojayGood idea.01:27
andre__qpoi, stable. haven't tried HD though01:27
qwerty12_N810YouTube works fine, but, like Andre, I haven't tried HD01:28
andre__i'll try now01:28
zerojayme too.01:28
ShadowJKHD will be a stretch01:28
qpoiAndre__, what about flash intensive sites?01:28
ShadowJKit's 480p, I think, and the flash players is a very heavy path for video to go through01:29
Stskeepsthe real question is if porn sites work. can't sell well otherwise.01:29
zerojayI'm not running the latest firmware though. Gotta wait for Monday for that. :/01:29
javispedroI will try now too. On my 1998 laptop.01:29
* javispedro cries01:29
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Woollyevening01:29
javispedroor morning :)01:30
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WoollyI suppose you might be correct there01:30
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Woollyanyone a gstreamer-junkie?01:31
andre__Stskeeps, any recommended porn pages I should test for you? :-P01:31
zerojaylol01:31
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qwerty12_N810andre__: be careful: he's into animal porn01:31
* qwerty12_N810 hides01:31
zerojayYoutube's not 100% smooth, but definitely way better than on N810.01:31
Woollyneed to get to the bottom of why gstreamer wont let me capture at 5fps :(01:31
* javispedro goes back under the bridge and continues crying there :P01:31
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qpoizerojay - HD or norm?01:32
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zerojayNorm.01:32
andre__qwerty12_N810, i have that official nokia "hide animal-porn" browser plugin installed, i will see an overlay with donald duck and mickey mouse instead01:32
zerojayBut again, my firmware is WAY out of date.01:32
SpeedEvilandre: Doing what though is the question01:32
SpeedEvilandre: and is minnie involved?01:32
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qwerty12_N810andre__: Oh, what a novel idea! :)01:32
qpoiabout how many fps is yt running at?01:33
andre__SpeedEvil, not allowed to tell anybody - NDA in place01:33
RST38handre: And what will Donald and Micket do?01:33
SpeedEvilAh.01:33
zerojayIt's Youtube. I don't know why you would expect any decent FPS anyways.01:33
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javispedrook. would you all stop conspirating right in front of the public eye01:33
qwerty12_N810zerojay: Yeah, I only go there for the comments...01:33
zerojaylol01:34
GeneralAntillesToo bad Flash isn't accelerated.01:34
ShadowJKqwerty12_N810, you're one sick puppy01:34
qwerty12_N810Can't disagree there01:34
qpoiI'll return in a few mins01:34
javispedroqwerty12_N810: don't lie to us. half of all those comments were made by you.01:34
javispedrothe server logs don't lie.01:35
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javispedroI specially like the comment you made in that donald and mickey video...01:35
ShadowJKAtleast the x86 version of flash can use HW accelerated scaling... dunno what adobe has done for N8x0 and N900 :/01:35
* javispedro notices engadget twogibibyteish video finally downloaded.01:36
javispedroShadowJK: I'd bet my fried palmt|x they've made nothing.01:37
Mouseyare n810s out of production now?01:37
javispedroeven though they have a freaking accelerator just designed for accelerating flash there, totally unused.01:38
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* ShadowJK ponders trying to get mplayer compiled with VFP again01:38
javispedroShadowJK: the current one isn't ? O.o01:39
ShadowJKthe current one is so old that the vfp code in it didn't exist01:39
javispedrohow cool.01:39
ShadowJKUnfortunately maemo4 scratchbox is also so ancient that it barfs on vfp01:39
javispedroyou mean qemu/cputranps?01:40
javispedroi use fremantle one.01:40
ShadowJKI mean binutils01:40
javispedroas ?01:40
ShadowJKyep01:40
ShadowJKit's from 2005 and doesn't seem to understand all VFP instructions01:40
javispedroremembers reading something in sbox changelog..01:41
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andre__hmm. i should postpone the "split chat product in bugzilla into frontend, backend + split im/chat into p2p and irc" to tomorrow. sigh. complicated. however came up with the initial design, it's not cool...01:41
zerojayandre__: Do you have the extra telepathy packages working, such as butterfly?01:42
andre__on fremantle? never tried01:43
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SpeedEvilDon't forget support for bouncers.01:51
andre__for butterflies?01:51
SpeedEvilSo you can have it running at home without relying on flaky cell connections for logging and stuff01:51
SpeedEvilIgnore me.01:52
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* javispedro bangs a capacitive touch screen in the presenter's head01:54
GeneralAntilleslol01:54
GeneralAntillesEngadget is so fail these days.01:54
javispedrodebate. yes, what debate.01:55
javispedroi did not see any........01:55
javispedro"I like Memo 5"01:57
javispedrois that new official pronunciation?01:57
RST38hIt is Fermantle01:57
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ShadowJKI suspect only the finns and japanese pronunce it the way whoever came up with it02:00
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* qwerty12_N810 felt guilty saying "Maymeo" to Jussi :\02:01
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javispedroactually, I remember that someone posted it is pronunced like a spaniard would do02:02
javispedrothus.02:02
javispedro:D02:02
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javispedrocuriously enough, /me pronounces it like "mah - eh- mow", which is nowhere near the spanish pronnunciation. :P02:05
javispedro(which would be ma-eh-mo)02:05
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qwerty12_N810Now that the N900 is black, and the SDK theme too, they should just drop the first two letters and just call it "Emo"02:06
qwerty12_N810+is02:06
zerojayThese are all things I was worried about with doing a podcast. ;)02:08
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* VDVsx facelpam at qwerty12_N810 02:08
* javispedro remembers the m130, where you could smash your fingers through the screen and it would still not detect anything02:08
javispedroah, well. *sigh*02:09
qwerty12_N810"N900: Running on the Linux-powered Emo platform. Comes with a free razor."02:09
RST38hdull razor, too02:10
bobbydhmmm02:10
ShadowJKqwerty12_N810, memeo?02:10
* javispedro likes "Memo 5 Operating System", which literally means "The operating system for idiots"02:11
javispedro(in spanish :P)02:11
bobbydt mobile seem to be offering the n900 in the uk, but thir "fair use" policy forbids IM traffic :/02:11
WoollyI have a gtk.dialog window popup in my full screen app. is there a way I can ignore any mouse events to the screen in the background when the dialog is open?02:11
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ShadowJKbobbyd, lol what02:11
mavhcbobbyd: does it forbid ssh tunneling?02:11
dottedmagbobbyd: does it formid VPN traffic?02:12
dottedmagmavhc: :)02:12
bobbydit seems pretty restrictive02:12
bobbydmavhc: probably02:12
mavhcit's just their standard terms, can probably ignore it02:12
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dottedmagbobbyd: ssh on 443 port and tunnelling.02:12
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javispedroShadowJK: "memeo" sounds like "I'm pissing myself rigth now".02:12
bobbydwell not if they're blocking standard ports...02:13
javispedroplaying with m you can do such a lot of funny words...02:13
qpoiandre__, zerojay: either of you fellas still here?02:13
mavhcI've not found the catch, but the carrier "3" in uk were offering PAYG with free skype even if you don't top up02:13
andre__qpoi, hmm?02:13
javispedrohttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nX1HkRxQX4M/ShrdimsDGlI/AAAAAAAABYE/afDrjj_KWtg/s400/me_meo.jpg see? memeo.02:14
zerojayqpoi: Sup?02:14
qpoii was on my phone earlier when i connected here, couldn't type fast enough on the touchpad so i decided to wait until arriving home02:14
qpoianywho, were you two just joshing me? or do you actually have access to some of the test units02:14
bobbyddo you think there's any disadvantage to buying a US model for use in the UK? it's a lot cheaper...02:15
bobbyd(n900 that is)02:15
ShadowJKyou might have to pay UK VAT and import duties02:16
andre__qpoi, i have a test unit.02:16
bobbydandre__: of the n900?02:17
qpoiandre__: could you give me a rough approximation of the frame rate yielded when watching low def youtube?02:17
qpoivia browser02:17
SpeedEvilbobbyd: it's the same price02:17
qwerty12_N810I have the Nokla N900. I couldn't help it, their promo material!...02:17
SpeedEvilbobbyd: if you have to pay import duties and tax.02:17
zerojayqpoi: As I said earlier, asking that question is a bit funny since Youtube's pretty much low fps anyways.02:17
bobbydhmm yes02:17
* javispedro facepalms after watching the jon interview02:18
qpoizerojay: there's a big difference between 5 and 20 fps02:18
SpeedEvilbobbyd: also - there are people offering it on contract - sortof - small internet phone delaers02:18
zerojayqpoi: So it's not always easy to tell if you're seeing low fps because of the video's encoding/capturing or because of the tablet.02:18
javispedrothe interviewer wouldn't have stand a chance with the older palm ceo, ed colligan. ed would have beat the presenter to death02:18
bobbydSpeedEvil: yep, looking there now02:18
SpeedEvilhttp://www.mobilephonesdirect.co.uk/Brands/Nokia/Nseries-Multimedia-Phones/sb489/n443/p26078.aspx?lpsrc=google&lpcat=NokiaN900l&lpgrp=N900Nokia&lptxt=N900v1&lpkey=n900 nokia&gclid=CI7E8PeK-pwCFV8B4wodgyBMbg#tabsAnchor - boob02:18
SpeedEvilbobbo02:18
SpeedEvilmeh02:18
qpoizerojay: the question i'm asking is relative to that of desktop speeds -- not absolute02:19
bobbydyep0 seen that02:19
bobbydI like the t mobile deal, if it's not as restrictive as it seems02:19
bobbydge02:19
bobbydoops :). Get the n900 and unlimited (up to 1GB per month) for 39 quid a month for 12 months and 40 quid up front02:20
bobbydpretty good02:20
qpoizerojay: is it comparable to desktop speeds on yours?02:20
SpeedEvilbobbyd: t-mobile deal?02:20
bobbydSpeedEvil: yep, through that site02:21
SpeedEvilI diddn't see t-mobile02:21
SpeedEvilmaybe they've updated since I last looked02:21
SpeedEvilwas just voda02:22
bobbydyou have to click the tabs at the bottom02:22
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bobbydthen select pay monthly02:22
SpeedEvilIIRC the cheapest through voda 'SIM free' - well - it comes with a voda 'simplicity' SIM - was 39602:22
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SpeedEvilWhich works out to - comparing with the contract - 6/mo for the contract - the network connection part02:23
SpeedEvilwhich isn't too bad02:23
bobbydright, but then you don't have mobile web...02:23
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bobbydthe t-mobile deal is £90 more for unlimited web for a year, so £7.5 a month, which is pretty good02:27
SpeedEvilyeah02:28
ShadowJKqpoi, got an N8x0?02:29
bobbydactually, missed an extra £40 there, so it's about a tenner02:29
bobbydandre__: tell me one thing, is it as good as it seems from the videos?02:29
SpeedEvilCheck the extras - IIRC t-mobile were throwing in free wifi access or something02:30
bobbydhmmmm02:30
andre__bobbyd, that's a very vague question02:31
bobbydandre__: ok, do you feel any of the features have been misrepresented, and don't live up to the hype?02:32
andre__i in general have issues with such open questions. e.g. define "the videos". i think i haven't seen all of them02:32
andre__and the latest hardware that's going to be sold is definitely better than what's around here02:33
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javispedrowhy, why, why on earth doesn't HildonCheckButton inherit from GtkToggleButton, or even better, GtkCheckButton.02:34
andre__javispedro, wasn't there a bug report about that?02:35
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javispedroandre__, right, as usual :)02:35
javispedrohttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473902:35
andre__in short: because it's too late to break api02:35
javispedroWONTFIX. *sigh* well.02:35
andre__in long: yeah, very stupid to not think about it in the beginning02:36
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bobbydSpeedEvil: http://www.theunwired.net/?item=restriction-t-mobile-uk-prohibits-use-of-voip-and-im-over-its-web-n-walk-service02:41
bobbydbattery's dead, see you later...02:42
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mavhctmobile offer a web'n'walk plus normally that lets you voip02:45
SpeedEvilthat is 06 though02:48
SpeedEvilI would check that's still true02:48
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mavhctmobile didn't punish you like you were a terrorist if you went over your quota either, vodaphone don't on one play now also02:49
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ishkabibbleTest first time #maemo03:11
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ShadowJKheh03:15
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* b-man16 yawns03:28
b-man16~seen xnt1403:29
infobotxnt14 <n=xnt14@pool-98-113-71-238.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9d 23h 32m 13s ago, saying: 'finally, its up.... ;)'.03:29
b-man160.o...... -_-03:29
* b-man16 bugs him on twitter03:29
Macerhm03:30
Macerhttp://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/index.php?pluginoption=productspec&item_id=1203:30
Macerneed to get one of those03:30
Maceri have an a-110 and an a-10003:30
Macera-100 doesn't have dts passthrough though :-\03:30
Macerdamnit03:30
Macerwhich has become a bit of a nuisance03:30
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Macermaybe i can install mer on it!03:34
Macer:)03:34
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johnxallo all04:53
GeneralAntillesHowdy-ho.04:54
zerojayYo.04:55
johnxgah, some days work feels like a real descent into madness04:55
johnxGeneralAntilles, and we'll (rm_you, you and I) all finally be at the same place at the same time it seems :D04:56
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, world's gonna end. ;)05:10
johnxwell, that's the goal at least05:10
johnxmuahahaha05:10
GeneralAntillesEither that, or I'm going to have to fight rm_you_. ;)05:10
johnxI'll ref05:10
johnxbut if he calls for help I'll have to take his side05:11
GeneralAntillesHa05:11
GeneralAntillesTag team?!05:11
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johnxexcept without the tagging :)05:13
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GeneralAntillesWell, hopefully he's man enough to only yell for help when he's down. :D05:14
johnxhe's always been a very pragmatic sort...05:14
johnxexcept when he isn't05:14
johnxbut...why do you need to fight him?05:14
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GeneralAntillesI dunno, I just feel like that's what has to happen.05:20
johnxah, ok then05:21
johnxas long as he agress too05:21
johnxare you helping him with graphics for adv brightness ^2?05:21
GeneralAntillesHaven't looked at it.05:23
GeneralAntillesProbably need a new icon.05:23
* GeneralAntilles needs a statusbar screenshot.05:24
johnxneed some new graphics too, possibly05:24
johnxhmm, maybe I should try some graphics today05:24
johnxfeeling pretty burned out from hacking05:24
GeneralAntillesClearly you should be playing video games like me. ;)05:26
luke-jr...05:26
johnxmmm05:26
johnxdunno05:26
johnxnot sure if I have even that much energy05:26
GeneralAntillesC'mon, save the world one dead dead zombie at a time.05:26
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GeneralAntilles2,99905:32
GeneralAntillesJust one more.05:32
GeneralAntillesI dunno why people always insist on making announcements about leaving and never coming back.05:35
GeneralAntillesInevitably they always do.05:36
johnxthey also think that someone cares05:36
johnxthen people go and prove them right by caring05:36
johnxor is this someone we care about?05:36
GeneralAntillesNo, we really don't care. ;)05:37
GeneralAntilles3,00005:37
GeneralAntillesI can die now.05:37
johnxI cared when TexRat disappeared for a while...but other than that05:37
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Macerscrolling text people05:43
Macer:)05:44
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Maceromg i got the green nyquil and it tastes like stale jagermeister05:44
Macerit is disgusting05:44
johnxdayquil FTW05:45
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Macerno way. nyquil is way better when you're going to bed ;)05:45
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zerojayGeneralAntilles: Who's never coming back now?05:46
Macerhaha05:47
MacerJesus?05:47
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zelrikriandohello05:52
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zelrikriandohmm06:31
zelrikriandoso quiet here06:31
johnxa little06:32
johnxit is a friday after all06:32
johnxand it's a little early for the EU people still06:32
zelrikriandoyeah06:32
johnxhad a question?06:32
zelrikriandoI guess I am a nolife06:32
zelrikriandothat might be the answer06:32
zelrikriandohmm actually yes I do06:32
johnxwell, I'm here on a friday night too06:32
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zelrikriandois maemo set to be on other devices than tablets/phones?06:33
johnxthat's one of those questions that seems pretty clear cut06:33
zelrikriandoI think I am also asking if maemo is nokia only06:33
johnxI don't think nokia is strongly pushing it that direction right now, but it is open source06:33
zelrikriandook06:34
zelrikriandobut nobody has 'stolen' the code yet to make a port06:34
johnxand there's a project called the mer project which takes the open parts of maemo (the ui mostly) and rebases it on debian/ubuntu06:34
zelrikriandook06:34
GeneralAntilleszelrikriando, Nokia appears to have no interest in licensing it at the moment.06:35
GeneralAntilleszelrikriando, the closest thing is, as johnx says, Mer.06:35
zelrikriandoit'd be nice if it can expand to more hardware :)06:35
GeneralAntilles~mer06:35
johnxand mer does aim to be source-package compatible in most of the ways that matter06:35
infobotmer is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer06:35
zelrikriandook06:36
johnxzelrikriando, what device are you thinking?06:36
GeneralAntillesMer is basically Maemo without Nokia's closed differentiation stuff on top.06:36
zelrikriandojohnx: netbooks/smartbooks or laptops even06:36
johnxhmmm06:36
johnxwell...maemo/mer is really optimized for touch based interfaces on smallish screens06:36
GeneralAntillesHonestly it's not really appropriate for that.06:36
zelrikriandook06:37
johnxI can't picture it being all that fun on a netbook06:37
GeneralAntillesTouch doesn't translate well to trackpad/keyboard.06:37
johnxyeah06:37
GeneralAntillesBut Moblin may be more what you're looking for.06:37
johnxor ubuntu unr06:37
johnxbig fan of that myself :)06:37
GeneralAntillesBoth, so far, mostly seem like Clutter demos. ;)06:37
johnxGeneralAntilles, except that one has a real distro behind it ;)06:38
zelrikriandoI d need to consider unr06:38
zelrikriandoon my laptop06:38
johnxon a real laptop, ubuntu is pretty nice06:38
GeneralAntillesMoblin's being slightly more impressive than Ubuntu's, but the whole Fedora thing. . . .06:38
zelrikriandoI am running Linux Mint right now06:38
johnxah06:38
johnxdunno what to tell you06:38
johnxgrass always looks greener on the other side I guess06:39
zelrikriandoI dont like fedora/rpm stuff06:39
zelrikriandoyeah06:39
zelrikriandoI am just interested in trying new stuff I guess06:39
zelrikriandobeing bored on my gnome :D06:39
* johnx decided boring was good for his main machine06:40
luke-jrzelrikriando: I'm running KDE 4.3 on my N81006:40
johnxyou should try that BeOS-alike: Haiku OS06:40
zelrikriandohmm06:40
zelrikriandolet me look it up06:40
zelrikriandohmm06:42
zelrikriandolooks very minimalist06:42
zelrikriandoluke-jr: I have had bad experience with KDE 3.506:42
zelrikriando^^06:42
luke-jrI have terrible experience with GNOME06:43
johnxhad a bad experience with avocado dip once :/06:43
zelrikriandoby bad, I mean very bad06:43
luke-jrzelrikriando: KDE is basically a semi-rewrite with every major version06:44
johnxsick to your stomach for half a day?06:44
zelrikriandolike downloading a gnome-based distro in the middle of the night to fix my computer06:44
luke-jrzelrikriando: fail06:44
zelrikriando:p06:44
johnxalright06:44
johnxdesktop wars means, I should have dinner instead :P06:44
luke-jrjohnx: what do you think of the new Zaurus?06:44
luke-jr...06:45
johnxluke-jr, that's a good question06:45
johnxdunno06:45
luke-jrXD06:45
johnxon the one hand I kinda hate sharp06:45
johnxand I'm sad to see them drop the good keyboard, as well as the convertible tablet form factor06:45
johnxbut it looks so nice. and so freaking fast for an ARM06:46
luke-jrjohnx: I'm pondering hacking up a custom handheld with the SoC06:47
luke-jrapplied for the developer program :)06:48
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johnxwhich SoC?06:48
luke-jrFreescale i.MX51506:49
johnxdunno. do you have connections to someone who can make the case?06:50
epilidojust install the fremantle sdk  How do I get it to save the repositories so I can try some of the extrasprograms06:50
luke-jrjohnx: maybe I will hack it into my C760 :p06:51
GeneralAntillesPandora - Redux: The Reckoning06:51
johnxluke-jr, hack it into a broken Psion 506:51
luke-jrwhy06:51
johnxbetter keyboard, more screen space06:52
luke-jrI love my C760's kb06:52
luke-jrgood point on screen size tho06:52
johnxwhat I really want is for one of those hybrid black+white/color LCDs to show up in something running linux06:52
johnxwell, bigger screen, half the res though :/06:52
johnxanyways, need to eat now06:53
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jaemevening, folks07:12
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jaemso... I just found out that my uni is getting an N900 for me to play with :)07:13
jaemyay07:14
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GeneralAntillesFun07:23
jaemyeah, it's for a project some others are working on with different phones07:24
jaemit should be interesting07:24
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johnxhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/18/video-dfi-hybrid-motherboard-runs-two-whole-systems-simultan/08:07
johnxtwo separate systems running off one motherboard08:07
johnxit sounds kind of neat, but didn't I hear about it somewhere else?08:07
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ShadowJKyeah back when people were putting PC cards in their non-PC workstations?08:09
johnxah, right08:10
johnxyeah, and the i486 for older Macs08:10
luke-jrthey still do08:10
johnxthis would be really darn cool in a linux system, with X11 over a totally "local" network08:10
johnxI want two core2duo systems though08:10
johnxnot a core2 and an atom :/08:10
luke-jrhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1683334200208:11
johnxis that the one running linux?08:12
luke-jryeah08:12
johnxkinda neat I s'pose08:12
luke-jrPowerPC08:12
ShadowJKimagine if you had like virtualization, and could migrate system image from one CPU to the other08:12
johnxI want it the other way around though, with the lower power machine being the master08:13
ShadowJKor if you ran http://www.mosix.org/txt_about.html on it08:13
johnxI really like the physical separation, especially separating the I/O08:15
johnxCPU scheduling is pretty easy to balance, but I/O scheduling seems more difficult08:15
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johnxguys from the UK: stop complaining about the price of the N900 :P08:21
ShadowJKlol08:23
johnxfree with 18months of t-mo contract is not too bad08:23
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johnxqwerty12 just headed out the door to buy one :P08:24
ShadowJKsomehow the use of the word "free" in that context makes me cringe :)08:25
johnxs/free/subsidized/08:26
johnxstill, lots of people were asking for it08:26
johnxprobably mostly USians though08:26
johnxthough in the US we don't get a break for going month to month08:26
ShadowJKoperators here haven't yet managed to make it complicated enough without users crying foul and jumping ship08:27
ShadowJKcomplicated enough for users not to figure out how much the operator is really subsidizing, I mean08:27
johnxand the 30GBP/month isn't really *more* than we'd be paying in USD for the same services08:27
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johnxso that leaves a 16month commitment, which would be fine for me since the phone will only get 3G in the US with t-mo anyways08:28
* ShadowJK checks if his operator has "productized" n900 yet08:29
ShadowJKthe CEO promised in the forums that it's coming :-(08:29
johnxeh, it'll get it in more hands08:30
johnxand really, for some people it is actually a better deal08:30
ShadowJKhm?08:31
johnxphones subsidized by contract08:31
ShadowJKI wonder if I should preorder from nokia or wait for general availability :x08:34
johnxwell, it's already down ~60USD from amazon.com08:34
johnxi bet it's 550GBP a couple weeks after launch08:35
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ShadowJKwell there'll certainly be competition on the margin amongst retailers08:40
ShadowJKbut I don't see nokia dropping the price for many months08:41
johnxreally?08:41
johnxah, hmm08:41
johnxactually that makes sense08:41
johnxmaybe a price drop in january08:41
ShadowJKWith N97 they were dropping the price because there wasn't really much hype and/or demand..08:42
ShadowJKSeems like N900 is going to be supply limited for a few months08:42
ShadowJKIt would just be stupid with a price cut when people are queueing to get their devices :)08:42
johnxi doubt it'll be constantly sold out or anything like that08:43
johnxanyways, I think I might actually sleep for once this week08:43
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ShadowJKI wonder if the slip from october to novemberish is to give the good software people more time, or to build up bigger inventory first08:44
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ShadowJKnini08:44
johnxit's to let the pandora have a shot at showing up first ;) or at least to keep the race interesting :D08:45
* johnx really sleeps08:45
ShadowJKhah08:46
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Stskeepsmorm09:02
Stskeepsn09:02
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qwerty12johnx: I've already got one in my hands...10:06
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Stskeepsmorn qwerty1210:06
qwerty12Hey Stskeeps10:06
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* Meizirkki just got confirmation that TB has same USB problems Beagle has http://innovatingtouch.com/index.php?topic=25.4510:23
Stskeepslovely10:23
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Stskeepsscary, my sb2 setup actually worked10:25
carboncopyah.. welcome carboncopy_n810 :D10:26
carboncopy_n810oh thank you :p10:26
qwerty12SB2? Working?10:26
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Stskeepsqwerty12: i'm as surprised as you are :10:27
StskeepsP10:27
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lcukmornin Stskeeps, lbt, rkirti, qwerty12 etc \o11:46
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qwerty12Hi lcuk11:46
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lbto/11:47
qwerty12lcuk: Missing London already?11:47
lcukhi q, what you upto today?11:47
lcukyes11:47
lcukmuchly11:47
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lcukthere were so many great people that i cannot wait to continue the conversations with11:47
qwerty12lcuk: nothing much, in all honesty11:47
qwerty12...then you had to go back to horrible, dreary Manchester11:48
lcukmanchester isnt that bad11:49
lcukits just having to do codemonkey stuff thats bad11:50
lcukit drains my creative energies11:50
lcuki have spent the week doing a braindump of everything required to develop work code11:50
lcuki might be leaving my job, but it is not my intent to leave them up the swanny11:50
qwerty12This for the benefit of your co-workers, and not your boss?11:52
Stskeepsit's considered professional to help a smooth changeover i guess :P11:53
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lcukStskeeps, yeah tis, i just have 10 years of knowledge where i was principle maintainer of multiple systems11:59
BluesLeecrashanddie_: peng11:59
Stskeepslcuk: i was doing documentation and testing up till the end of my previous work12:00
Stskeepsto make sure everything worked12:00
Stskeepsi guess it's a plus everything still does12:00
* lcuk nods12:00
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lcuki need a proper stand for this n90012:06
lcukgonna make a new crate - but im gonna make it standalone12:06
lcukwould be cool to have speakers too12:07
lcukcould use a simple oldschool radio for it12:07
lcukheh :D puttin it into the tape space of a ghetto blaster :D12:08
qwerty12http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10237_Presenting_the_Cityman_450_ant.php12:09
lcukbravo!12:10
lcukthats splendid12:10
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aSIMULAtormorning maemonians12:33
qwerty12g'morning12:34
Stskeepsmorning aSIMULAtor12:36
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Corsachey there12:51
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lcukmornin aSIMULAter \o12:54
* lcuk finally found time to post in journal12:54
lcukhttp://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/23740912:54
Dantonicdamn it why doesnt it have a bigger screen!!!!!!  :(12:55
lardmanmorning chaps12:55
Dantonichi12:55
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GAN800Dantonic, meh, interestingly everybody who's actually used one says you don't notice.12:59
lcukDantonic, mmm its not the size of it12:59
lcuk+1 gan12:59
GAN800It's only the armchair speculators that seem to be up in arms.12:59
crashanddie_blueslee gone?12:59
Dantonicidk lcuk size does matter!12:59
DantonicI wish it was 4"12:59
crashanddie_so quoted13:00
lcukDantonic, find out where you can play with one13:00
Dantonicya13:00
qwerty12No thanks. I don't like holding bricks to my ears to use as phones.13:00
lcukand i am almost certain you will see its not a problem at all13:00
crashanddie_"[10:59] <Dantonic> idk lcuk size does matter! [10:59] <Dantonic> I wish it was 4""13:00
lcukDantonic, i originally thought it would be too small too13:00
Dantonichaha don't save that post crashanddie_13:00
lcukand infact i thought liqbase sketching wouldnt work13:01
* lcuk is happy to be proven wrong13:01
Dantonicdon't quote me out of context!!13:01
lcukDantonic, its in google forever13:01
DantonicLOL13:01
lcukwhen people search for "its not the size" they will know you have a small weiner13:01
Dantonicdarn!13:01
lcuk:D13:02
qwerty12It's OK, lcuk loves them13:02
lcuki was asking about the smartq7 and comparing it with the 12" lenovo we have13:02
* GeneralAntilles gives up trying to sleep.13:02
lcuklol qwerty1213:03
* lcuk strokes his 3.5inches of shinyness13:03
DantonicLOL13:03
Dantonicdo you have one lcuk?13:03
lcukyeah13:03
Dantonicoh13:04
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz013:04
Dantonic:P tell me about it13:04
lcukhttp://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/23740913:04
lcukand that is why13:04
crashanddie_http://www.bash.org/?90301513:04
crashanddie_It has been done13:04
lcukhaha13:04
qwerty12lol13:04
* lcuk is in bash too13:04
lcuksomewhere13:04
crashanddie_Thou shall not be frgttn13:05
lcukhttp://www.bash.org/?88478213:05
qwerty12lcuk: London Rejects?13:05
lcukheh13:05
lcukthats you13:05
lcukcrashanddie_, would you like to shake qwertys hand13:05
crashanddie_lcuk, nice one13:05
crashanddie_fuck me,no13:06
qwerty12You're the one who had to get his ass out of London to go back to Manchester :p13:06
Dantonichow do I find out where I can play with one?13:06
crashanddie_well that's even worse13:06
Dantonicprobably nowhere!13:06
lcukDantonic, at the summit13:06
lcuki assume there will be one or two there lol13:06
qwerty12crashanddie_: can you extend quotes?13:06
qwerty12"[11:06] <Dantonic> how do I find out where I can play with one?" would be a nice addition13:06
crashanddie_qwerty12, nope, too late13:06
qwerty12damn13:07
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crashanddie_qwerty12, London might be the shithole of the universe, but Manchester is still in Northern England, and therefore, a gazillion time worse13:07
Dantoniclol qwerty12 ... touche`13:07
crashanddie_and lcuk's highlight detector on "northern" just went BEEP13:08
Dantonicwish I could be there...13:08
Dantonicbut I'm in sunny California13:08
lcukahhh Dantonic13:08
crashanddie_oh fuck, I need to put down my days off for the summit, book the plane and hotel13:08
Dantonic:(13:08
crashanddie_Dantonic, I'll be there next month ;)13:08
Dantonicoh yah? I'm not telling you where I live!13:08
qwerty12He'll bring his "N900"13:08
Dantonic:P13:08
lcukhe doesnt need to know, you are advertised and are an attraction13:09
Dantonichaha13:09
lcuk"the guy with the 3.5incher"13:09
Dantoniccrashanddie_, where are you gonna be?13:09
Dantonicwhere in ca?13:09
crashanddie_Dantonic, I'll be around Fremont during the week, but in SF or maybe going down to LA for the weekend13:09
crashanddie_staying for a couple of weeks13:09
Dantonichmm well I live about 1.5 hours from SF13:09
DantonicO_o13:10
crashanddie_in which direction?13:10
Dantoniceast13:10
DantonicSacramento area13:10
crashanddie_k13:10
crashanddie_I'm actually to rent a car13:10
crashanddie_s/y/y tempted/13:10
infobotcrashanddie_ meant: I'm actually tempted to rent a car13:10
crashanddie_I saw they had a viper for rent for $250 a day, lol13:11
Dantonichaha13:11
Dantonicthat's an 8.0L engine13:11
crashanddie_so?13:11
Dantonicyou'll need a lot of gasoline13:11
Dantonic:P13:11
crashanddie_petrol :P13:12
crashanddie_lcuk, btw, I was told there were some rumours about me being an alcoholic?13:13
GeneralAntillesMMS, portrait, 3.5"13:13
GeneralAntillesSilly, silly, silly13:13
crashanddie_lcuk, because I was so adamant about buying wine/beer during our dinner at odz13:13
lcukmmm crashanddie_ they went back to rumours?13:13
crashanddie_so it is you :P13:14
lcuknot at all, i drank like a horse at odz13:14
lcukis that the right saying?13:15
lcukfish!!!!13:15
* lcuk facepalms13:15
qwerty12whore13:15
* lcuk is goin mental13:15
lcukwhy did i have horse in mind lol13:15
Dantonicyou pissed like a horse?13:16
qwerty12lol13:17
Dantonicmaybe you were thinking of that13:17
qwerty12It's what he was doing last night, best thing available in Manchester13:17
lcukhttp://esl.about.com/library/glossary/bldef_402.htm13:17
lcukno, eat like a horse is an actual saying13:17
lcukdrink like a fish is the other one13:17
DantonicI could eat a horse!13:17
Dantonicidk different countries13:17
Dantonicdifferent sayings13:17
lcukMyrtti has a pony13:18
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Dantonichere it's "I gotta piss like a racehorse!"  "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse!"  "I'm as drunk as a skunk!"13:18
Myrttino, no, I have a sugar rush13:18
lcukheh good mornin :D13:19
Myrtti*DINGDONG*13:19
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lcukok, how does this slashdot firehose work13:19
lcukive got a posting here: http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/237409   and i tihnk its inthe firehose somwhere13:20
SpeedEvilYou just wrote it in hte journal?13:21
SpeedEvilI'm unsure those go into the firehose13:21
qwerty12lcuk: get a real blog13:21
lcukslashdot is a real blog13:21
qwerty12Debatable13:22
lcukSpeedEvil, on the zoo when posting a journal entry i can decide13:22
SpeedEvilhttp://slashdot.org/submission13:22
SpeedEvilah13:22
lcukand besides, ive been a longterm member of slashdot since wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before even liqbase and nokia n81013:22
Dantonichey anyone use flite with the festival package?13:23
lcukflite is the speach synthesis thing isnt it?13:23
Dantonicyeah13:24
Dantonicwas reading about the "festival-multi" package... with all the new voices13:24
Dantonictried installing it cant get it to speak13:24
Dantonic:P13:24
* lardman gives a small focused curse13:26
lcukdamn13:26
crashanddie_lol13:26
lcukthe guys at tinker.it got a speak n spell working with authentic voice13:26
lbtnew voices?13:26
crashanddie_just did a joker challenge in batman AA13:26
lbtis rab still there?13:26
lcuklol13:26
crashanddie_i killed a few guards in 1:49.3713:26
crashanddie_and I'm 21,962nd13:27
lcuklardman, whats your boggle dude?13:27
lardmanis that a reference in the bible?13:27
lardmanfocusing13:27
Corsacerf, seems sfr will subsidize the n900 at 460€ with a 12m contract13:27
Corsacthat just sucks13:27
StskeepsCorsac: if it's a really good data contract that's not bad :P13:27
lcukyou mean what has to be done manually normally13:28
lcukthe half press13:28
lcukwhich should be software controllable13:28
lcukany chance of actually just switching the cam into macro mode13:28
lcukinstead of automatic13:28
lardmanurgh?13:29
lardmanno I mean how to focus in sw13:29
CorsacStskeeps: http://www.phonehouse.fr/nokia/n900-pre-commande/NON90013:29
Corsacthere's a 250€ but the operator just sucks13:29
Corsacand I don't really want to change anyway13:29
CorsacDisponible13:30
Corsacsous 10 jours13:30
Corsac== available in 10 days (can't really believe it :) )13:30
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crashanddie_then don;t13:31
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lardmanhmm, anyone got a link to some GStreamer examples?13:35
lardmanin c13:35
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kirmacorsac: that ten days would actually correlate with the wholesaler shipping estimates given to some US resellers13:38
kirmabut yes, I'm exceedingly skeptical if that's going to hold, especially in this case.13:38
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felipeclardman: what kind of examples?13:44
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SpeedEvillcuk: work it out and I've got mod points :)13:47
wazdheya all13:47
lardmanfelipec: basic ones; but I've just found a hello world in the tutorial, so am all set, thanks13:48
lardmanfelipec: am seeing if I can get the fm radio to work13:48
GAN800Word of advice, don't machine-gun forum replies on limited sleep.13:49
SpeedEvilhttp://slashdot.org/submission/1075821/N900-hacking-contest-launched?art_pos=113:49
SpeedEvilalso13:49
SpeedEvilyeah.13:49
felipeclardman: ok, I guess you meant for a client app13:49
SpeedEvilToo easy to look like a complete retard.13:49
lardmanyes indeed, sorry for not being more specific13:49
StskeepsGAN800: what did you do on talk.* now? :P13:50
GAN800Stskeeps, lots of dumbass muscle memory typos.13:50
GAN800That other thing was intentional. :P13:51
Stskeepslike Maemo.org? :P13:51
GAN800wd reset.13:53
GAN800Fun.13:54
lcuklol SpeedEvil mod points mean nothing for firehose13:54
lcukeveryone has a chance13:54
GAN800Stskeeps, s/it/on/ s/aren't/are/13:54
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Corsackirma: the thing is, if I understand correctly the 5-steps plan Nokia has, for the 4th step there should be some marketing done, before the release13:55
CorsacI mean, mass marketing or something13:55
lcukwhen you are logged in and view the journal entry here http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/237409  dont you have the firehose +- things?13:55
Corsacwhich has not yet happened, at least here13:55
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SpeedEvillcuk: I mean - I can't find the link in there anyway13:55
* lcuk cant either13:55
SpeedEvillcuk: no, I don't13:55
lcukthey screwed with the firehose since i last used it13:55
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SpeedEvilah13:56
SpeedEvilhttp://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/firehose/13:56
SpeedEvilAlso - bad topic13:56
SpeedEvilmost people won't have heard of most of the keywords13:56
lbtI notice the Ts&Cs for PUSH include "and Nokia may publish the material free of charge and/or incorporate it or any concepts described in it in our products without accountability or liability"  "and you agree to indemnify us if any third party takes action against us in relation to the material you submit."13:57
* SpeedEvil finds out that lcuk is ugly.13:57
SpeedEvillbt: that generally means if you ripped something off - or infringed a patent.13:57
Stskeepslbt: fairly normal i think13:57
SpeedEvillbt: So do a full patent search before submitting.13:58
lcuklbt, hows that work with the announced hardware hacks using TM and C material13:58
lbtit would be if PUSH were a GPL type thing...13:58
lcukspeak n spell, viewmaster rolodex etc13:58
lbtbut I got the feeling PUSH was more on the commercial side...13:58
lbtor at least had that aspect...13:58
lcukits for use in a storefront installation13:58
lcukso yeah its gonna be commercial13:59
lbtso "give us your cool ideas and we'll take 'em and make money - thanks"13:59
lbtjust wondering out loud13:59
lcukbut it gives the opportunity for the teams to be brought together, given resources and help to produce a top class design and showcase it for the world :)13:59
lbtSpeedEvil: the thing about contracts is not what they are for, but what they say.14:00
lcukin open source we rarely get the opportunity to bring our ideas through because of funding issues.  this removes that barrier and gives people valuable pathway to commercial bespoke artistic installations :)14:01
SpeedEvillbt: yes - I know - the above comment wasn't totally serious.14:01
lbt:)14:01
lcuklbt, the art of open source :)14:01
SpeedEvilAs a full patent search for non-trivial software is going to cost you _lots_.14:01
lbtso I just noticed and thought I'd mention it...14:01
lbtlcuk: so it would be nice for them to say they'd consider open-hardware-ing suitable projects...14:02
lcukwell the projects ARE being pushed to use open hardware14:02
lbtheh - you know I'm not a fanatic...14:03
lcukthe arduino project is an open spec microcomputer controller for exactly this14:03
lcukits the sort of stuff that would cost thousands of pounds in my school days, but you can use it to hook up cool stuff14:03
* lcuk is gonna be making all sorts of things soon14:03
lcukthe last hardawre hack i made was ripping a mouse apart and using the motion sensors in a double pendulum14:04
kirmacorsac: I thought the fourth step really refers to N900 with Maemo 5, and fifth step is Qt platform (on Maemo 6 and others)14:04
lbthttp://openremote.org/display/orb/OpenRemote+Box14:04
lardmanhow do I create a callback using glib? I want to stop my command line program after e.g. 10s14:05
lcukkirma, the 5th step involves a chorus of whatever technologies it needs to connect us :)14:05
* lbt wants his N900 to have a thermostat14:05
* lcuk believes its the only harmonious way possible14:05
lbtso it knows whether I'm cold and to turn the heating on14:05
lbt(of course, it would help to know I'm at home too)14:05
lardmanit probably has one on the die....14:05
SpeedEvillbt: I think it does have a CPU thermostat prolly14:06
kirmait pretty certainly has a temperature sensor... on the battery14:06
lbthmm run at idle and work out ambient...14:06
SpeedEvilAnyway - simply write code to detect shivering.14:06
lcuksamppa, do these heartrate monitors include thermometers?14:06
lcuklol14:06
lcukspeedevil, the heating will come on when you are idy reading the articles of playboy14:06
lbtdelta heat change over time14:06
Corsackirma: yeah but as I understood it, 4th step should see a broader audience14:06
lbtgives a measure of ambient I guess14:06
kirmayes... but that's not this device yet, I think.14:07
Corsacuh?14:07
lcukhahah it appears on the firehose and is blue!14:08
* lcuk doesnt know what blue means14:08
lcukhttp://slashdot.org/firehose.pl14:08
lcukbut its there now :D14:08
kirmacorsac: just the idea that I got was that fifth step occurs with maemo 6... well, maybe it's also N900, but most certainly other devices too14:09
lardmanno thoughts on a timer callback?14:09
* lcuk nods at kirma14:11
kirmacorsac: but I've heard *some* rumors of potential marketing ramp-up around next week or something. but it's far from a fact, and especially far from undisputed one :)14:12
lcukdigital harmony would be desired.  old, new, big, small - bringing us closer.14:12
lardmanah g_timer14:12
Corsackirma: what I mean is mass marketing starts at *fourth* step14:15
Corsac== n90014:15
SpeedEvilA scary thing for nokia is to get a large userbase using maemo5, understanding it, nice app-store, and then every maker in china can directly compete with a 100% identical OS running the same apps that the users understand.14:15
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kirmacorsac: ah14:16
kirmathe non-nokia manufacturers are bound to be on trailing edge on software, and write the "critical" 20% of software themself anyway, and they have serious issues maintaining any sort of customer confidence regarding product quality (basically, their customers don't expect to have any consumer rights after the purchase)14:18
kirma(but that doesn't matter if the device is cheap enough)14:18
kirmathere are pretty good reasons why nokia doesn't opensource everything14:19
Stskeepsmer :P14:22
Stskeepsbut yes, to be ahead14:23
SpeedEvilWhat portions of the UI are closed-soruceR?14:25
Stskeepsnot having seen final fremantle, - but usually stuff like file manager, browser ui and other things14:27
Stskeepsicons are closed but easily replacable14:27
Stskeepsthemes, but oss theme templates14:27
Stskeepsdefault font is closed source14:27
Stskeepscurrent status area is closed but hmm14:27
kirmaprobably outlined in some maemo talk post, but I believe considerable portion of the fundamental applications would be closed source?14:27
Stskeepswe are still able to do stuff like http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/couldntthiswork.png in mer14:28
Stskeeps:P14:28
Stskeepsso it's not bad14:28
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lardmananyone know where EINVAL is #defined?14:41
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Stskeepshm, is it known if the zoom buttons on top on n900 can be used in apps?14:44
lcuksame as it was known for n81014:46
lcukthey can also be used for digital zoom in the camera app14:46
* lcuk didnt know that until i was crossing a bridge with rogers14:46
kirmalardman: errno.h probably?14:48
lardmanhmm, /me wonders why he's getting EPERM as an error message when trying to alter the radio frequency, etc14:48
lardmankirma: ah yes14:48
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braindump03Hey folks.15:02
Stskeepslo15:04
lcukhey braindump0315:04
lcukwhat happened to 01 and 0215:04
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braindump03Died. Long long time ago.15:07
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braindump03I'm thinking about replacing my iPhone 3G with the N810 and a 3G phone. Got a device for testing purposes but - what software should I install first? ;)15:08
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lcukbraindump03 :) theres lots to try15:09
lcuka whole world of software specially crafter for all kinds of things15:09
lcukhttp://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/15:10
lcuksee what others are downloading15:10
Myrttibraindump03: you've heard of N900, of course?15:10
lcuksays Myrtti who used a 770 for ages ;)15:10
Myrtti(just checking in case you haven't)15:10
braindump03Myrtti: I did, but it's 500€ vs. 200€ ;)15:11
Myrttilcuk: and I still love it ;-)15:11
lcukof course :) thats the beauty of these devices.  each year people work their hardest to create the finest software they can using the hardware thats available15:11
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braindump03Okay, let's start with the basics ;) Is there an UI replacement / theme which is optimized for finger input instead of the stylus?15:13
Stskeepsmer'll probably have that eventually15:14
braindump03Last time, I trie'd to install Mer, there was no bootloader :/15:15
lcukbraindump03, like many projects, mer is a work in progress - i hope you posted your experiences in a bug report :P15:16
Stskeepsbraindump03: did you follow  wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation  :P15:16
lcuk(or if not, now is your chance to try again and report directly to stskeeps the principle maintainer ;))15:16
braindump03I think, the best alternative would be Android, but NITdroid does not support Bluetooth which I need most :/15:16
braindump03Stskeeps: Yep, I did. But I'll try again.15:16
lcukbraindump03, do you want to write your own apps15:17
lcukif so just write them in finger friendly manner15:17
lcukthe main menus on maemo are already finger driven15:17
braindump03lcuk: On no, these times are over ;)15:17
lcuklol15:17
braindump03lcuk: Main menus, yep, but the DropDowns for example are horrible15:18
* lcuk nods15:18
lcukevolution is coming15:18
lcukmer looks better and better every day :)15:18
braindump03Okay, I'll give it a try.15:18
Stskeepsbraindump03: saw the N900 theme? http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/couldntthiswork.png15:18
lcuksurprisingly looks like fremantle for some bizarre reason tho :P15:18
Stskeepsthat'll be Mer soon :P15:19
* lcuk huggles his n900+fremantle15:19
Myrttilcuk: meh15:19
lcuk:D15:19
* lcuk huggles his n899.5 too15:19
Stskeepsas long as maemo mapper exists for n900 and is usable, i'm happy15:19
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lcukStskeeps,15:20
lcukthe n900 has mapping already15:20
lcukand apparantly it has routing15:20
lcuki wonder if a new maemo mapper could use the capabilities of that15:20
lcukbut i dont know the inner workings of it all15:20
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braindump03Installing Mer Installer. Let's have a try15:22
braindump03Say hello to Bootloader :)15:25
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lcukmmm that was odd15:35
lcuki just pasted a link to http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/237409 and it kicked me15:36
Stskeepsheh15:36
* lcuk waits15:36
braindump03lcuk: For what?15:39
lcuki pasted that link to the people in #liqbase and the app closed15:39
lcuki thought i would get kicked again when i just tried15:39
* lcuk tries again15:39
lcukhttp://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/23740915:39
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lcukmmm15:40
braindump03heh15:40
lcuki wonder if its only on its own15:40
lcukcos i tried it15:40
lcukand it didnt kick m15:40
braindump03Unpacking Mer.15:40
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braindump03Come on, dude. Hurry up. Phone shop is closing in a few hours and I want to decide, if I sell the iPhone and keep the Nokia15:41
Stskeepsyeah, it may take a while15:42
braindump03Yep, I see ;)15:42
braindump03Btw, is there any way to sync contacts and calendar in Mer with Google?15:43
braindump03"Booting from immc2 failed, booting from flash" - Maemo is starting :/15:45
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braindump03Any hint, Stskeeps?15:46
Stskeepshmm, immc2 sounds a bit awkward15:47
Stskeepsdid you follow installation guide?15:47
braindump03Yep15:47
angasulehmm, does anyone use routing with openstreetmap? how good is it? or at least finding of intersections15:47
braindump03Installed onto the internal flash15:47
Stskeepsinternal mmc but yeah15:48
braindump03That's what I meant ;>15:48
Stskeepsbraindump03: anyway, go see Mer screenshots and videos - that gives a good impression. many people love their tablets even without Mer15:48
Stskeepsi sadly have to spend time doing some administrativia and mark down for work :P15:48
braindump03I want to try it, not just watching ;)15:49
Stskeepsdid you Install Bootmenu menu item first, and then Install Mer?15:49
braindump03I'll try to flash with flasher15:49
Stskeepsk15:49
braindump03Yep15:49
Stskeepsodd it says that message then15:49
braindump03Where do I get the kernel and rootfs imag?15:50
braindump03*image15:50
Stskeeps0.15?15:50
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braindump03Yep15:51
Stskeepshttp://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.15/mer-armel-n8x0-flashrootfs-v0.15.zImage , http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.15/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.15.jffs215:51
braindump03Thanks15:51
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braindump03flashroot is the kernel?15:57
braindump03Obviously ;)15:58
Corsacwowm n900 is now 560 on expansys, it lost 15€ since yesterday :)16:14
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jaskadoh, thats less than here :|16:14
Corsac540 in spain ;p16:16
unixSnobhow do i use apt-get to downgrade a package?16:16
unixSnobi just upgraded a package, and it's a broken piece of crap16:16
Corsacpackage=version16:17
Corsac(+sudo apt-get install)16:17
luke-jrunixSnob: generally you don't16:17
luke-jrapt repositories don't tend to store old versions16:17
Corsacstill 650€ on nokia store :)16:20
Corsacbut expansys expect to have it on oct 1916:20
Corsac:(16:20
braindump03I guess, there's no GUI way to sync the N810 with Google, is it? :/16:22
luke-jrwhat exactly is there to sync?16:23
luke-jrN810 doesn't have calendar, tasks, or much of anything16:23
luke-jrNotes?16:23
braindump03Uhm, contacts and calendar.16:23
luke-jr*what* calendar?16:23
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luke-jras far as contacts, just add your Google account as XMPP16:24
Stskeepsbraindump03: there's 3rd party stuff :)16:24
braindump03luke-jr: I'll have a try, thanks.16:24
luke-jris there an actual calender buried somewhere??|16:25
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braindump03Stskeeps: Where to find?16:26
braindump03Ah, mCalendar :)16:26
Corsacluke-jr: and in n900, do we have info about pim stuff?16:26
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lcukCorsac, i dunno about pim just yet16:31
lcukbut messaging rocks16:31
lcukits all seamlessly linked together and works so well16:31
lherbachluke-jr: Using GTalk doesn't give me the contacts :/16:32
lcukits brought me closer to friends cos text messages are now like im conversations16:32
* Stskeeps looks forward to MSN on it too16:33
* luke-jr mutters about how IM apps should stick to XMPP only16:34
Robot101we packaged the extra telepathy CMs too16:34
Stskeepsare they in extras-devel yet?16:36
wjtno, jonnylamb had a few bugs to fix first iirc16:37
* wjt will nag him this week :P16:37
Stskeepsbecause then it will be the ultimate communicator for me16:37
Robot101they need some wakeup squashing work16:38
Robot101maybe hooking into the device heartbeat library16:38
Robot101apparently they keep the CPU/wireless active quite a lot16:38
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zerojayWell, the extra telepathy packages are SOMEWHERE because I was able to install them.16:54
zerojayFrom app manager.16:54
zerojayBut they aren't seen/used at the moment. :/16:55
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Stskeepsah16:56
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wjti think only some of them are there16:58
wjtsome of the UI bits may be missing atm16:58
zerojayI was able to install butterfly, haze, idle, salut...17:02
zerojayNone of them show up as accounts I can add however.17:02
wjtright, the account configuration UI isn't there17:03
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zerojayNeedless to say, I'm excited for when that happens. :)17:04
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zerojaylol... can't install pidgin either. :/17:04
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Sho_Does anyone know what resolutions the TV out of the N900 supports?17:18
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wazd"I'm waving my finger in front of n900 and it doesn't respond. Wtf" :D17:20
lcukSho_, it best support 800*48017:20
lcukit does pal and ntsx17:20
lcukntsc tho17:20
Sho_hmkay17:20
Sho_thanks17:20
lcukthe output on this projector is using 800*48017:21
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyMRTNPCVQM17:21
lcukout from the side of my n90017:21
wazdlcuk: do you have these links always opened up in the notepad or something? :D17:21
lcuklol wazd thats not an unexpected thing17:21
lcukwazd, notepad - nahhh desktop liqbase ;)17:22
* lcuk cant wait to make that one17:22
lcukwould make my workflow much better17:22
lcuki might look at other x11 tiling wms :)17:22
Sho_lcuk: Can't help but notice that 480 is lower than the vertical resolution of PAL, though ... how does it adapt screen content to PAL?17:22
lcuki dunno17:23
lardman|afkzerojay: get coding, I need my MSN! ;)17:23
lcukbut it works17:23
lcuksomehow17:23
lcukhi lardman|afk \o17:23
lardman|afkhi lcuk17:23
lcukyou are very afk17:23
lcukdid you solve your crisis with timers?17:23
lardman|afkam now, outside into the sun :)17:23
Sho_lcuk: k, thanks for the info :)17:23
lcukwicked!17:23
lardman|afkyeah thanks, will chat later17:23
lcukk sounds good17:24
lcukyou got beer or wine?17:24
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* RST38h moos in sorrow17:27
zerojaylardman|afk: lol... me too.17:28
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Captain_Picardhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0&feature=related17:39
Captain_Picardwat17:39
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lcukCaptain_Picard :)17:41
lcukCaptain_Picard, every time you bang on the desk it pulsates17:42
lcukso you start drumming along to the music and its just a cool time17:42
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lcukCaptain_Picard, it also works large http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyMRTNPCVQM17:48
lcukand im sure theres a way to do some sort of intermediate too :D17:48
Captain_Picardis that like a winamp visualization?17:49
Captain_Picard:D17:49
lcukits just a little drawing17:49
Captain_Picard:)17:50
lcukquite nice how they work well together17:50
lcukcollaborative fun :)17:50
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Captain_Picardlcuk: got any other videos17:55
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lcukCaptain_Picard, of what17:55
Captain_Picardn900 + custom software17:56
Captain_Picardircing using a n900 with irssi17:56
lcukhttp://mynokiablog.com/2009/09/15/video-nokia-n900-presentation-with-gary-birkett-and-liqbase/17:56
Captain_Picardn900 -> openssh -> irssi :\17:56
lcukthe whole presentation :)17:56
lcuki think17:56
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lcukmornin X-Fade17:59
lcukit did it again :'(17:59
* lcuk dislikes walls of text17:59
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lardmanphew, hot out there17:59
unixSnob When I run maemo-sdk start gui18:00
unixSnobam I supposed to get a maemo desktop?18:00
unixSnobi get "Starting up runtime for diablo4.1.2_armel... Configuring maemo-runtime for rootstrap 'diablo4.1.2_armel'... Done"18:01
unixSnobnow what?18:01
lardmanguis are an unnecessary waste of resources that could be put to use calculating something18:01
lardman;)18:01
lcuklardman, fluid dynamics!18:02
lardmanoutput as a text file18:02
unixSnoblardman: how do you test gui apps without a gui?18:02
lcukdoesnt look as good18:02
lardmanI try not to :)18:02
lardmanbut on-device18:02
lardmanthough it should be possible to start the gui using the x86 target18:02
lardmanI just don't know how as I don't do that18:02
lardmansorry!18:03
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unixSnobi really don't want to develop on a third screen.. screw that.  I have a large LCD18:03
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lardmanwhat is this? Diablo, Fremantle?18:04
Macerhm18:04
unixSnobdiablo18:04
lcukunixSnob, 3rd screen?18:04
lcukwhy does it take 3 screens to develop18:04
lardmanas in he already has two big ones, doesn't want to have to use the little one for dev18:05
unixSnoblcuk: "3rd screen" is the name given to small portable screens, eg. pdas, phones, etc18:05
lcuki have main desktop+tablet and when i run an app i know im getting 100% experience and know buttons and effects work18:05
lcukso whats second18:05
Macerheh18:05
lcukif they are touch screens and the emulator runs at normal speed i would agree18:05
unixSnoblcuk: i suppose it's a laptop.. idk18:05
lcukbut the chances of getting that perfect storm mean its disconnected from the stuff18:06
lardmanunixSnob: af-sb-init.sh start18:06
lardmanlcuk: you're preaching to the converted here :p18:06
unixSnoblardman: what's that do?18:07
lardmanhttp://repository.maemo.org/stable/4.1.2/INSTALL.txt scroll to the bottom18:07
lcukplus unixSnob most of the stuff you want is on the device and not in emu - how do you - for instance use the accelerometer the camera the radio out or the sms stuff18:07
lcuklol not to unixsnob im not18:07
lcukhes a heathen18:07
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lcuk:P18:07
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crashanddie_lcuk, you don't need to test18:08
crashanddie_lcuk, just like some people don't need source code files :P18:08
crashanddie_cat | gcc18:08
lcukbuilds first time, ship it?18:08
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crashanddie_perfect programming, directly18:08
unixSnoblcuk: i have no immediate plans to develop multimedia apps, or any i/o intenstive stuff18:08
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crashanddie_unixSnob, how is accelerometer multimedia or i/o intensive?18:09
lardmanunixSnob: don;t worry, he's only needling you18:09
unixSnobcrashanddie_: an accelerometer is an input device18:09
* lcuk just prefers on device stuff18:09
crashanddie_unixSnob, how is it intensive?18:09
unixSnobconstant input, realtime18:09
crashanddie_right18:09
unixSnobit's a continuous stream of input18:10
crashanddie_not if you wrap it :P18:10
crashanddie_separate thread, listening, callback methods to indicate specific actions18:10
unixSnobcrashanddie_: indeed that's what I would do, if i needed it for something18:11
unixSnobcrashanddie_: but i don't need an accelerometer for my apps18:11
crashanddie_unixSnob, what apps are you considering?18:11
unixSnobcrashanddie_: very simple stuff to start.  My first one will be 'hello world'.  Followed by a timecard app or something.  And something to sync with a mutt contact db18:12
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lcukunixSnob, cool18:12
lcukthe hardware hackers at tinker.it made a rolodex which linked with contacts viewer on the deivce - as they rotated the rolo the contacts scrolled18:13
lcuksimple and effective18:13
unixSnobmaybe a card counting trainer, or video poker simulator later on18:13
lcukneat18:13
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lardmanhmm, how does one know whether g_object_set() has failed?18:13
lardmanas it returns void...18:14
lbtit crashes later18:14
lardmanah, ok18:14
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unixSnoblooks like my problem was not have xephyr installed18:15
lardmanthat will cause some minor problems :)18:16
lcuklol18:16
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lardmanoutput from an ioctl should be a negative errno?18:17
zelrikriandoI think I am gonna stick with Hero roms from now on18:17
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zelrikriandogah18:18
zelrikriandowrong window18:18
lardman:)18:18
zelrikriando:D18:19
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RST38hlardman: should be >=018:19
lardmanbut on failure?18:20
RST38hlardman: Negative means "I screwwed"18:20
lardmanyep, but I want to know why... :)18:20
RST38hanalyze the result18:20
unixSnobis xephyr the same thing as vnc viewer?18:20
ShadowJKunivac, no18:20
BluesLeeare the displays of the n900 and the n97 the same? -> searching for a display foil18:21
RST38hlardman: you want http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/functions/strerror.html18:21
RST38hlardman: Or, for simpler version http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/functions/perror.html18:22
lardmanbut the numbers should simply be a negative errno.h value I'm assuming?18:23
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RST38hyes18:28
lardmanhmm, well perror gives me all sorts out output strings, where before I only had -1 as my value18:28
* RST38h moos at X-Fade 18:28
RST38hHmm...He is dead, Jim. You take his tricorder and I'll take his purse...18:29
RST38hlardman: it operates by errno18:29
RST38hlardman: it returns -1 and sets errno to the actual error code18:30
* frals does not miss C-coding one bit18:30
frals:D18:30
Macerhm18:31
Macerso i guess defying gravity got canned?18:31
Macertoo bad18:31
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Macerwas an ok show18:31
unixSnobfrals: what kind of coding did you evolve to?18:32
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lcukgahhh @ wall of text18:36
lcukhttp://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/18:36
fralsas i'm still in uni im forced to do java atm, but on my spare time i do php and lately been looking in to python and ruby18:36
fralspeople need to learn how to linebreak :(18:36
lcukX-Fade, i did everything i could this time18:36
lcukfrals, i post in slashdot journal18:37
lcukand everytiem its like this18:37
lcukso this time i actually went to the trouble of writing in proper html18:37
lcukand submitting as html18:37
lcukand it STILL did it!18:37
frals:D18:37
lcuki opened a bug last time about it18:37
lcukand made several mailings this morning18:38
* lcuk curses slashdot engine today18:38
jaskaslashwrist18:39
lcukbah to top it off, its vanished from the firehose18:40
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lardmanRST38h: ok, cool18:40
ccookeHmm. Has anyone actually got a production n900 yet?18:41
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mavhcMacer: it was a bad bad show18:41
lcuk"production"18:41
lcukwhat does that mean18:41
mavhcyou choose to do php?18:41
lcukarent they all produced18:41
fralsfinal production quality/sw i guess?18:42
lardmanas in a release version18:42
mavhcoff a production line, not handmade/sampled/beta18:42
ccookelcuk: final hardware, don't care about software. I'm wondering how feasible it would be to add a magnetometer to it.18:42
ccookeWhich basically means "is there enough space"18:42
lcukwhen does one hardware variation become final tho18:42
lcukand would those users know its final18:43
fralswhen mass production has begun, imho18:43
lcuki would love for there to be a magnetometer in here18:43
ccookelcuk: well, if they don't know it's final then they can't say "I have a final one". Which means I'd have to wait all of a few weeks. ]18:43
lcukyeah but when would a tester know if its final or not18:43
lardmanRST38h: and if the value is == 0, is that good or bad?18:43
lardmanshould be good18:43
lcukccooke, the ones shown in all the media and videos - is there a difference between them?18:44
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz018:44
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ccookeBasically, I'm wondering if it's reasonable to know now that it *might* be doable (in which case I'll order a magenetomer or five next month, because they're not that expensive) or if it's unknown (in which case, I'll wait until I can play with my n900 when it arrives)18:44
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lcukccooke, put something on -developers making note of the real benefits of it18:45
lardmanso I get this http://maemo.pastebin.com/m794c41318:45
lcukand why/what it might take and how it could be used etc18:45
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ccookelcuk: the benefits wouldn't really be much unless quite a few people had one, to be honest18:46
lcukexplain - i love hardware and would really benefit from knowing direction18:46
lardmanccooke: do you have an url for these compasses?18:46
lcukit would help with lots of gps free in the dark missions18:46
lardmanRST38h: "No such file or directory" is an odd error message, as the device file is already open18:47
ccookewThe way I see it, it all depends on how easy adding one is. If it's easy enough, it'd be simple to post instructions and, possibly, provide an upgrade service for people.18:48
ccookeif it's difficult, that's not really going to be plausible, even if it *can* be done.18:48
ccookeif one or two people have it, then it's highly unlikely there'll be any software that uses it - and even then, it's unlikely anyone would care18:49
* lardman decides to output raw errno18:49
ccookelardman: the components aren't exactly difficult to find. Here's one set: http://media.fukung.net/images/12813/a427bb78de298457c4de7a4fd1621ed4.jpg18:49
ccookelardman: note that some are less than 10mm square18:50
lardmanah, I thought this was a Bluetooth module or something like that18:50
ccookehmm, that would certainly be easier18:52
ccookebut it wouldn't help18:52
ccookebecause it won't turn with the device :-)18:52
lardmanI know18:54
lardmanbut might be good to test with before modification18:54
* luke-jr ponders a homemade i.MX515 wearable with his Zaurus SL-C760 as a thin client XD18:54
ccookeheh18:55
ccookeI wonder if any of my Zaurii still work18:55
ccookethe last SL-C3200 probably does18:55
lardmanhmm, perror doesn't give the right string18:56
lardmanso I have return values of -22 most of the time, which is -EINVAL18:56
luke-jrccooke: going to get the new one?18:56
lardmanwhich at least agrees with the kernel code :)18:56
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ccookeluke-jr: the new Sharp device running Ubuntu?19:01
luke-jrccooke: yes19:01
ccookeluke-jr: tempted, but I'm not planning on it.19:02
luke-jrI was, until the reviews came back19:02
luke-jrand it turned out to be huge19:02
luke-jris the SQ5 that big too BTW?19:02
ccookedepends.19:02
ccookeprobably, for me19:02
luke-jr...19:03
luke-jrit doesn't depend19:03
luke-jrit either is or isn't :/19:03
ccookesee, the Zaurus was always sturdy enough that I had no problems sticking it in my pocket. the n810 I'd want a hard case for, and those never seemed quite sturdy enough.19:03
ccookebut the n810 was light enough to go in a shirt pocket19:04
* lardman heads out for tapas, cu later19:04
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lardman|afkdrinking, then tapas that is, lest you Spanish types think I'm eating too early ;)19:04
ccookeluke-jr: for some people, the sq5 will be too big. for others, too small. For some, just right. For me, it's too small for a shirt pocket and too flimsy-looking for a trouser pocket, so I'd skip it.19:04
ccooke(and my bag usually contains a 17" laptop, so there's no real point in me having anything else I can't carry on my person)19:06
luke-jrccooke: Is SQ5 as big as the PC-Z1?19:06
luke-jrapparently not19:07
luke-jryet they both claim 5"19:07
luke-jrO.o19:07
luke-jrccooke: I don't carry a bag, so I want the biggest that will reasonably fit in my pocket19:08
ccookeluke-jr: 5" is the size of the screen19:08
ccookelook at pictures of the sq5 and the pc-z1 - note the sharp's screen is embedded in a large bezel19:08
luke-jri c19:08
* ShadowJK stuck N800,N810 in one jeans pocket, E75 and two external batteries in other pocket19:09
ccooke(larger than the sq5's)19:09
StskeepsShadowJK: and was instantly popular amongst the ladies?19:09
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ShadowJKoh e70 was there too somewhere19:09
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ccookeShadowJK: I travel on the Londn Underground at least twice a day. The n810 would have a broken screen after a couple of days of that19:09
ShadowJKstskeeps: well I suspect I wont be having babies now19:10
Stskeepsccooke: N810 is really really difficult to kill.19:10
Stskeepsi have done really bad things to do19:10
Stskeepsit19:10
Stskeepssitting on it != good though19:10
* ShadowJK did the ghetto version of wardriving/walking... driving around to find 3G+hsdpa signal are with minimal congestion :P19:10
jaskahah19:10
ccookeI've dropped mine a few times, sure19:11
ccookealthough it's not a patch on the Zaurus for solidity - those things are *bricks*. Lovely build.19:11
luke-jrN810 likes to fall out of my shirt pocket19:11
luke-jrno damage done that I can see19:11
ccookeluke-jr: that would be irritating.19:11
luke-jrit is, but not because it breaks19:11
ccookeyeah19:11
ccookeI'm very pleased with the n810's build quality. It's survived being dropped 6' onto concrete a few times.19:12
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* ShadowJK has fallen asleep on his n800 a few times19:13
ccookeShadowJK: ditto :-)19:13
ShadowJK(and shoved it onto the floor in my sleep)19:13
ccookealghough my n810 has a very small blemish on the screen (only visible if you cause the screen to flex or catch it in the light) from sleeping on it, once19:14
jeffrey_kenanybody can send me a copy of knots_win(knot 2 server)19:14
ccookeThis is one reason I don't trust it in my pockets :-)19:14
jeffrey_keni can't download it19:14
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jeffrey_kenemail  quando@live.com19:17
jeffrey_ken3q~~~19:17
FirebirdHm, has anyone perfect fake multitouch scaling? or am I reinventing the wheel here19:22
Firebird*perfected19:22
aolhow would that work?19:22
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ccookeFirebird: I'd be loath to call it impossible... but it *is* unlikely19:23
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Firebirdwell, when you touch the screen a second time it quickly moves the cursor to a new location between the two touches, if the hypotenuse of that relative movement is greater than threshold value X, calculate scale by the hypotenuse of current mouse position to mouse click position divided by the hypotenuse value of the position where the relative movement .....this is hard to explain19:25
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FirebirdI just wrote a quick demo for it19:27
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mavhcmy n810 fell onto concrete, in its case, out of my pocket, hit on the open side, now it doesn't slide open if pushed from that side, and there's a dent, otherwise fine19:28
SpeedEvilTo express it another way Firebird.19:32
FirebirdSpeedEvil, ?19:33
SpeedEvilThe reported touch area is an approximate centroid of the bounding box of19:33
SpeedEvilafk19:33
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FirebirdWell, it works pretty darn well... until you try to let go19:34
SpeedEvilYou have to then assume that it's a release, not a touch in a different spot?19:35
* Firebird is confused by SpeedEvil and goes back to coding19:36
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SpeedEvilSorry - I've been chopping down trees today. Not thinking clearly.19:40
SpeedEvilIt's probably patented.19:40
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airtonarantesdoes anyone here is using pyqt on N810?19:53
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airtonarantesI wondering about pyqt's installing. I'm searching on apt using ssh to my device and I don't find the package.19:54
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lcukwhats a better blog hosting place then20:27
lcukthan slashdot20:27
SpeedEvilmyspace.20:27
Myrttibest is to host your own20:27
Myrttinext best wordpress.com / livejournal.com / blogger.com20:28
lcukofc but i know sweet fa about websites20:28
lcuki can barely spell html20:28
lcuklet alone code in it20:28
Myrttilcuk: who the hell codes them anymore, not me20:28
SpeedEvilWhat's wrong with slashdots offering for a basic site?20:28
Myrttiwordpress for me baby20:28
lcukSpeedEvil, i posted on my journal this morning20:30
lcukin html mode20:30
lcukperfect - just like i do20:30
* lcuk has been loooooooooong term slash users20:30
lcukwhen it got syndicated by garage20:30
lcukhttp://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/20:30
lcuka wall of text appeared20:30
lcukthis is the journal20:31
lcukhttp://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/23740920:31
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lcukthe fuck20:31
lcukit did it again20:31
* lcuk shrugs20:32
lcukand finally if i dont get kicked20:33
lcukhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2796875&group_id=4421&atid=10442120:33
lcukthe bug report20:33
SpeedEvillcuk left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by parrot)).20:34
lcukit crashes xchat when i paste that link20:35
lcukon its own on a line20:35
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=329804&postcount=228 and parrots :D20:35
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* SpeedEvil notes lcuk has two less binary digits in his slashid20:38
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lcukoh im not that old!20:39
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Myrttilcuk: ugh, I can see why you want to change20:49
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Myrttijust noticed your entry in my greader through planet maemo20:49
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Myrttican't be arsed to read that from greader20:49
lcuki dont want to change20:50
lcuki just want it fixing20:50
Myrtti:-(20:50
braindump03Any other cool OS, I should try on the N810 except Mer? ;)20:53
luke-jrGentoo20:53
braindump03Yeah, did it on a 450MHz P2 in the 90s. Took about 48h with X.20:54
dnearyHi20:54
dnearyVDVsx: Ping?20:54
luke-jrbraindump03: N810 isn't that slow20:55
SpeedEvilhttp://www.sharp.co.jp/netwalker/20:55
luke-jrSpeedEvil: you have one?20:55
SpeedEvilno20:55
VDVsxdneary, pong20:55
dnearyI'm in the process of trying to synthesis the consensus around the proposals20:55
braindump03luke-jr: 400MHz OMAP? It is!20:55
dnearyWill be saving a new version of the submissions page with substantial changes in a minute20:56
luke-jrbraindump03: OMAP is ARM, not x8620:56
braindump03I know.20:56
luke-jrx86 is significantly slower than most architectures20:56
braindump03Yeah. But ARM is crap, too. Imho.20:57
braindump03Missing Sparc :<20:57
MeizirkkiLOL20:57
luke-jrpfft20:57
luke-jrbraindump03: are you Macer?20:57
dnearyVDVsx: There's some proposals you made in your revised schedule that I don't think we need to make20:57
braindump03luke-jr: Yep, but don't like PPC either ;)20:57
dnearyI think we can lengthen the day, add breaks and fit in all of the must-see proposals20:57
dnearyWithout starting earlier on Sunday20:57
braindump03But at first, I need a new OS for the N810. ;)20:58
braindump03Android would be so nice :/20:58
bef0rdhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=329804&postcount=22820:58
braindump03Or Blackberry OS. iPhone OS. Windows 7 ;>20:58
bef0rdsorry was checking if xchat crashed heh...20:58
luke-jrbraindump03: Gentoo20:58
braindump03luke-jr: Well, okay. Which WM?20:59
VDVsxdneary, probably, I tried to avoid moving already accepted proposals, but there's a couple of slots left in the BoF room20:59
luke-jrbraindump03: I mostly just use console mode20:59
luke-jrKDE 4.3 maxes out RAM20:59
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lcuktheres hope for n810wimax users yet!21:00
lcukhttp://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/09/19/0023216/WiMax-In-2010-mdash-Too-Little-Too-Late?art_pos=821:00
braindump03luke-jr: Well. I think, I've other use cases for the N810 ;) I need it for mailing, pim and browsing on the go.21:01
mavhcthey can't make Sparc mobiles since they banned the use of asbestos21:01
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luke-jrbraindump03: that is a hopeless goal21:01
braindump03Why?21:02
dnearyVDVsx: We also have the co-creation garage slots21:03
luke-jrbraindump03: because the N810 lacks the RAM for KDE reasonably well21:04
SpeedEvilOf the netwalker 'Microsoft ® Excel, Word, Powerpoint ® compatible with high ※ "OpenOffice.org" chip. 表やグラフ入りの書類などを身軽に持ち歩けます。持Chi歩Kemasu the lightness and tables and graphs into documents'21:04
SpeedEvilWow - an openoffice chip! :)21:04
VDVsxdneary, they want to move everything (the 3 slots) to that requested space ?21:05
dnearyNo, the Sunday double session21:05
VDVsxah ok :)21:05
braindump03luke-jr: Yep. But what other OS? :/ Maemo is missing some features, i need21:05
dnearyOK - my summary of the state of play in the proposals page:21:05
dneary5 presentations: awaiting feedback (either two people disagree, or we're waiting for Jamie or yourself)21:06
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dneary8 presentations: Probably accepted (2 strong yesses, or 3 yesses already)21:06
dneary2 proposed lightning talks21:06
dneary5 accepted lightning talks21:07
dneary1 accepted BOF21:07
dneary6 wait and see21:07
dneary4 probably rejected21:07
luke-jrbraindump03: Gentoo+KDE is the closest21:07
dnearyIn the probably accepted, 2 presentations will be merges21:07
braindump03I think, Gentoo + IceWM is closer. But It's not very finger friendly, is it?21:07
VDVsxdneary, humm, waiting for me, I thought I voted in everything in the other day, gonna check21:08
VDVsxdneary, ah ok, there's one, can I vote now or you are editing ?21:09
dnearyWith the state of the schedule, we have 8 presentation slots open, enough lightning talk slots if everyone accepts,21:10
dnearyLet me save first21:10
dnearySaved - refresh21:10
dneary2 presentations missing your comments: high res imaging and test framework tool21:11
keesjdneary: Are we fine on content? do we need more content?21:11
dnearykeesj: We need less ;)21:11
dnearyI think we were too generous with early proposals21:11
dnearyBut there was some pressure from people: "why is the schedule empty? The nokia day is full already")21:12
dnearySo we ended up not keeping enough slots for the last minute rush of high quality proposals from BNokia people when they got their travel funding approved21:12
dnearyIt would have been better if they propose first, and let us know after if they couldn't come21:12
dnearyAnyhoo...21:13
VDVsxdneary, I also have doubts about the high res proposal :(21:13
VDVsxlet me see21:13
dnearyI tend to agree with Quim's analysis of a few of the talks we can move21:14
dnearyTo BOF slots21:14
dnearyand I agree that we can reduce Daniel's slot to 25 mins21:14
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lcukdneary, wheres the proposals list21:16
dnearylcuk: Maemo Summit 2009/Submissions21:16
dnearylcuk: Talk: plus that for deliberations21:16
VDVsxdneary, I disagree with the first two (Quim analysis), because they target a users audience and we don't have others to replace them21:16
lcukcool ta21:16
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lcukmmm dneary liqbase or stars arent there any more21:19
VDVsxlcuk, already accepted ;)21:20
VDVsx^this is the submission queue21:20
lcukahhh sneaky21:20
VDVsxdneary, ok then, we can start adding some of the accepted into the grid :)21:23
keesjdneary: ok21:24
dnearylcuk: Because they're no longer under consideration21:24
dnearyVDVsx: Looking at Quim's suggestions: widget design - what's your take?21:25
VDVsxdneary, I would say yes, despite my previous considerations about this talk, at least seems much more suitable than the other one proposed by the same guy21:27
lcukcan i reasonably ask - why on day 1 do the ui design stuff and the ui panel collide.  isnt it sensible to expect a person wanting to go to one would want to see both21:28
VDVsxlcuk, ask Nokia, not us :P21:28
* lcuk will lol21:28
lcukits like xfactor and strictly21:29
lcukthe missus switches over every few minutes21:29
lcukbut cant really run between rooms21:29
lcuko_O setup proxy with cams21:29
VDVsxlcuk, rants about the other days direct them to us ;)21:29
lcukand live streams21:29
lcuklol i will have to scroll down first - it just stood out like a sore thumb21:29
lcukthat looks stupidly wrong.  the panel could occur after the other ui bits and build on each other and give users a chance to discuss it.   -developers or -community for this?21:32
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braindump03luke-jr: Found your how-to. But, is there any way to build a gentoo image and flash it into the n810 so i can use the internal mmc as /home?21:33
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luke-jrbraindump03: you could easily do that just by mounting it as /home21:34
luke-jrbraindump03: you mean slonopotamus's how-to?21:35
braindump03Yeah, but how to install Gentoo onto the flash instead of the internal mmc?21:35
luke-jrhttp://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x021:35
luke-jrbraindump03: uh, I've done neither21:35
braindump03Yup, this one21:35
luke-jryou didn't say flash root :p21:35
slonopotamusbraindump03, flash? 128mb?21:35
luke-jrI doubt it's big enough21:35
braindump03Because I do not have MiniSD at the moment ;)21:35
luke-jrbraindump03: my / is 4.8 GB right now21:36
braindump03Yeah, internal mmc has 2Gig?!21:36
slonopotamushmm... 2.6gb here only.21:36
luke-jrbraindump03: there's a reason we only support external SD :p21:36
slonopotamushmm21:37
braindump03Thats crap.21:37
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luke-jryou *might* squeeze it on the internal MMC if you trim /usr/share/doc or such21:37
luke-jrtake out kernel sources after installing wifi modules21:37
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slonopotamusluke-jr, if you really want, you can strip lots of not-so-necessary stuff21:37
braindump03Hum, i could try to mount /usr/portage from nfs21:37
luke-jrperhaps21:38
slonopotamusbraindump03, yep, that too.21:38
luke-jrslonopotamus: I have buildpkg ;)21:38
dnearyVDVsx: What do you make of that?21:38
slonopotamusbraindump03, stage3 + portage tree will fit in 2gb, but leaving not much place to maneuver21:39
braindump03I'll have a fag over that ;)21:39
slonopotamusbraindump03, nobody had a goal to reduce its size, so...21:39
VDVsxdneary, sorry I'm lost :)21:39
dnearyIn that page?21:40
dnearyOr in general?21:40
VDVsxdneary, nah, lol, I only didn't catch the context of your last question:)21:42
dnearydneary: The Submissions Talk page - agree with most of it? Think we can make sense of it?21:42
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dnearyI'm more worried about fitting in breaks and 10 minutes between sessions, when we haven't taken that into consideration all along.21:43
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lcukdneary, take 1 or 2 or even 5 mins off every presentation21:44
lcuk:D people talk for a bit shorter time21:44
VDVsxdneary, I agree in general :)21:44
braindump03Mhm21:45
* lcuk will donate 14 out of his 15minutes if it means a lie in21:45
dnearylcuk: 5 minutes off a presentation brings them back to 20 minutes21:45
dnearyNot much...21:45
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lcukunderstood21:45
dnearyAnd scheduling a presentation for 24 minutes is a recipe for ridicule ;)21:45
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lcuk:D21:46
VDVsxdneary, we already have 5 min between sessions, I think is enough21:46
lcukwe could have jack bauer posters and use the timer clock21:46
dnearyVDVsx: Anna-Marja suggested it's not enough21:46
dnearyDid you get that mail?21:46
VDVsxdneary, yeah21:46
VDVsxbut the venue is that big ? :P21:46
m3kydwhat's the exact date the N900 will be released?21:47
dnearyI think that the big hall is in a different building21:47
* wazd wonders if 20 minutes would be enough to describe revolutionary liqtorch app :D21:47
dnearyI haven't visited it, though21:47
dnearym3kyd: Sept 29th, I heard21:47
dnearyBut I have no real idea21:47
lcukhell no!21:47
dnearyAnyway, I'm ff for the night, and won't be around tomorrow.21:48
VDVsx10 min walking from a room to another it's a big distance (at least for me)21:48
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lcukgnite dneary21:48
dnearyVDVsx: I think the assumption is that getting everyone out of a hall after a presentation takes more than 5 minutes already21:48
dnearyVDVsx: And that is true21:48
dnearylcuk: And so Tibet.21:49
wazdStskeeps: btw, I'm working on Mer theme now, it's gonna rock the world :P21:49
lcuk"n900s available for the first 10 people out the door"21:49
dnearyG'nite21:49
VDVsxdneary, cya21:49
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wazddneary: nini21:49
lcukwazd, how can a theme rock the world?21:50
wazdlcuk: well, if Hello Kitti could, then every crap in the world can rock I think :D21:51
lcuk"is gonna look amazing"  "people will pat me on my back for admirable layout skills" but rock the world :P21:51
wazdlcuk: I think I should listen more to the Steve Jobs' keynotes to describe actions properly :D21:52
wazdIt's gonna be simply amazingly gorgeous :D21:52
lcuk+121:52
lcukdon't forget BOOM!21:52
braindump03No fdisk in the repos :/21:53
* lcuk gets on with liqconfig and finishes it tonight21:53
lcukbraindump03, i wasnt aware the tablets came with a floppydrive?21:54
wazdFremantle template is weird in some places though21:54
braindump03lcuk: Hu? I want to partition mmc121:54
lcukno doubt21:54
lcukbraindump03, ahh21:54
lcuki tohught it was just the dos thing :$21:54
Myrttimmmmm fresh pillow21:55
braindump03Well. No. ;)21:55
braindump03Ah, there is sfdisk21:56
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lcukMyrtti, head pillow, huggle pillow with dsample picture (shudder), foot pillow?21:57
Myrttilcuk: three head pillows21:58
lcukwont that break your neck22:01
* lcuk has to have just right amount and height22:01
Myrttilcuk: I use them for different purposes22:01
lcuko_O are you a professional pillow fighter?22:02
Myrttilcuk: no, I just need some for keeping my sleeping pose so my sciatica wouldn't get worse when I sleep22:03
* lcuk tucks duvet under top leg when lay on side22:04
lcuki dont like my knees knocking :$22:04
lcukMyrtti, do you keep your 770 charged still22:06
lcukor has it become dormant22:06
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Myrttilcuk: I forgot it on the windowsill in April22:08
Myrttilcuk: ... in UK22:08
lcuklol22:09
lcukso i should go looking round all the windowsills in the country for it22:09
lcukshame we cant query google streetview22:09
lcukfind me this: [ ... ]22:09
wazdthat's how qwerty12 got his 770 I think :D22:09
lcuklol22:09
Myrttiit'll prolly end up being home automation remote for @dsample22:10
lcuk+122:10
lcuknever grow old as long as you can still poke at it22:10
lcuktho, theres no point in me porting liqtorch to it - its got one built in22:10
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Myrttimeh - I hate the aftertaste of my antibiotics22:11
lcuk:(22:11
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lcukanyone know how i use sed22:13
MyrttiI don't know how you use it22:14
MyrttiI know how I use it ;-)22:14
rkirtilcuk: change all return statements in functions to assert(FAILURE)'s ? :P22:14
lcuklol rkirti22:15
Myrttiin fact, I know how you people use sed I've used22:15
lcukno i want to make sure the packaging for all my liq* stuff uses latest lib and i cant find the method javispedro did22:15
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* lcuk has to make a script which will run through the packaging for ALL apps (ramping up muchly now i know how..)22:16
rkirtilcuk: please dont tell me you use sed in autofoo macros to detect version numbers like some nokia devs did ~_~22:16
lcukand submit them to builder with delays22:16
lcukrkirti, no22:16
lcuknever used sed ever22:16
* rkirti recalls the horrid time she had writing recipes for those packages22:16
lcukbut i wanted to make sure the control file has expected version of the lib22:17
lcukend users who make mods themselves can carry on using whatever methods they want22:17
lcukbut for all my stuff, when i build a library i have to make sure the dep projects pick it up22:17
lcukafter i build and send22:17
lcuki *thougth* it worked by just mentioning the lib name and apt would be good enough to grab the latest one22:18
lcukbut it didnt22:18
lcukand i got stung22:18
lcukand javis showed me how22:18
lcukbut i cant make it work22:18
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keesjany native english speaker who might want to review some maemo related text for me?22:27
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* wazd finished 1st theme block. 1924 more to go X(22:28
fralssounds like fun... im doing a relation-db in xml, wanna switch?22:30
keesjfrals sounds like fun, is it a java job?22:31
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fralsnah its a course in advanced datamodelling with xml22:32
fralsso basically im just doing xml and then presenting it with xslt22:32
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keesjit's xslt that give the real pain22:35
pupnikdoes it chew up lots of memory?22:35
pupnikjason hunter came up with a flat-memory consuming xslt parser around 200022:36
pupnikiirc22:36
fralsas the db is tiny i cant really tell :)22:38
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keesjxsltproc is pretty good22:40
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keesjpupnik: did you think about my proposal and do you speak good english?22:40
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braindump03Hm. I'm not lucky with all that stuff :/22:43
pupnikkeesj it seemed fine  and it is something ive always wanted to see :)22:48
braindump03Is it possible to use Debian / Ubuntu repositories with Maemo?22:51
braindump03I'm just missing some GTK tools.22:51
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lcukhey qwerty12_N810 \o22:55
qwerty12_N810Hi, lcuk :)22:55
lcukenjoying yourself down in london?22:55
derfHmm, what's the easiest way to tell what OS version I'm running on my actual device?22:55
lcukos version or hardware22:55
derfuname -a says 42-19, but that seems whay too old to be true.22:55
derf*way22:55
derflcuk: OS version.22:56
derf42-19 was OS 2007.22:56
qwerty12_N810derf: Control Panel -> About product22:56
qwerty12_N810lcuk: No, I've been doing homework :\22:56
lcukaww lol22:56
lcukderf, boo22:56
derfHmm, it really does say 1.2007.42-19.22:56
lcukhang on22:56
lcukthats only a week number22:57
lcukthat wont help you22:57
lcukyeah thats better22:57
derfBut, "maemo Linux based OS 208"22:57
derf*200822:57
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derfIn the same dialog.22:58
derfSo one of those is a lie, and I think it's the first one.22:58
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braindump03BTW, there's no Ubuntu Mobile Build for the N810, is it?23:00
qwerty12_N810derf: FWIW, 1.2007.42-19 is OS2008, but it just happens to be Chinook23:01
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smackpotato1so i saw this add for a n810 dummy cell phone on e-bay23:02
derfqwerty12_N810: Hmm, actually that may be right.23:03
derfThe one before Chinook was...?23:03
smackpotato1i said to my self "self this guy doesn't know what he has and it only costs 5 bucks to find out23:04
qwerty12_N810derf: OS2007, with a version number of 4.2007.38-223:04
qwerty12_N810The last version of OS2007, anyway23:04
derfOh, I remember. bora.23:04
derfI meant the codename.23:04
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smackpotato1when it arrived it was a lump of injection molded plastic for display purposes only. anyone got any sugestions for this23:05
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javispedrolmao.23:05
javispedrothat's it.23:05
javispedro_all_ of active topics in tmo are about the n900.23:06
javispedro(save for gpodder. thank god)23:06
javispedroer... hi.23:06
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braindump03And: Is there any Debian ready-to-use build for the N810 without all these OOo ans Firefox Crap?23:08
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derfNow, the real question, is it still possible to get maemo-sdk-vm 0.4?23:16
javispedrobraindump03: if you consider firefox crap, you shouldn't have any problem debootstrapping debian by yourself23:17
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derfThe torrent appears unseeded, and the direct download links are borken.23:17
* Firebird continues waiting for a stable maemo5 sdk23:18
braindump03javispedro: Yep. But I have no idea about the drivers and so on for Debian so I'll better use Gentoo ;)23:18
javispedroah, you don't mean a chroot.23:18
* Stskeeps twitches23:18
johnxmornin' everyone23:18
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Stskeepsmorning johnx23:19
Stskeepswelcome to the night shift ;)23:19
javispedrohi23:19
javispedrothe night shift has begun already?23:19
javispedrodamn23:19
* javispedro syncs clocks23:19
Stskeepsjohnx goes to sleep when i wake up and comes on when i'm about to sleep :P23:19
johnxbut the difference is that Stskeeps keeps me from going to sleep23:19
johnxand he goes to sleep whether I'm on or not :P23:20
qwerty12_N810yerga: Any plans on making gFTP Fremantle-friendly? ;P23:20
johnxbraindump03, uhm, what are you trying to accomplish with gentoo?23:20
johnxqwerty12_N810, so, fremantle doesn't have the gnome-vfs layer, does it?23:21
johnxhmm, it'd be nice to see a real fuse frontend23:21
keesjnight.... sleep... goood!23:21
Stskeepsbraindump03: me and johnx wasted most of a summer + more on debian port and came to the conclusion desktop environments on mobile devices don't mix due to power conservation issues and usability23:21
Stskeepsresulting in Mer23:21
johnxStskeeps, I started in january of that year23:22
Stskeepstrue23:22
Stskeepsbeer in amsterdam btw? :P to celebrate our insanity23:22
johnxStskeeps, for sure :)23:23
Stskeepsi'm travelling way too much for my own good atm23:23
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johnxStskeeps, starting to burn out from it?23:23
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Stskeepsi prefer my own bed really23:24
johnxI know the feeling23:24
johnxalso, being able to actually unpack your suitcase all the way once in a while is nice23:24
johnxbut at the same time, I'm somewhat jealous. I think I caught a case of the wanderlust at some point23:25
braindump03Stskeeps: Yep, I do not want a KDE or so - I want lxlauncher and some GTK apps, Maemo does not provide23:25
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Stskeepsbraindump03: there's a guide for LXDE on Mer somewhere..23:25
Stskeepsor fluxbox, can't remember which23:25
johnxbraindump03, IIRC, the gentoo guys started a little after I did, and I'm not sure they ever really got something bootable23:25
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johnxsuihkulokki, up for a quick hypothetical question?23:34
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suihkulokkijohnx: mmh?23:49
SpeedEvilhttp://improveverywhere.com/2008/01/16/no-pants-2k8/23:50
SpeedEvilsorry mispaste.23:50
johnxhypothetically, if someone dynamically linked a closed source library against libc, is this likely to cause problems eventually when libc is upgraded and their proprietary library isn't?23:50
johnx(given that both libraries are for ARM EABI linux, though one might be thumb and the other vfp)23:51
suihkulokkijohnx: nope, as long as the ABI is same23:52
johnxfantastic :)23:52
javispedrojohnx: vmware has been dynamically linking with the system libc for years23:52
javispedro(including all the closed source libraries they ship with)23:53
johnxjavispedro, but they usually make a new release every year or so23:53
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johnxI'm kind of assuming this closed source lib will be released once, and never updated (in a worst case scenario)23:53
javispedrojohnx: grab vmware 4, i'm sure it'll still work.23:53
javispedro(if you can build the kernel module, that is :D)23:54
johnxugh. don't remind me about vmware kernel modules. I get enough of that at work to make me want to switch us to xen without telling anyone23:54
javispedro:)23:55
suihkulokkiglibc uses versioned symbols, so even if the decide to change the meaning of some symbols, they still provide the old version of symbol for binaries linking against older libc's23:55
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johnxsuihkulokki, very cool. in my limited programming knowledge, I think that was the thing that was confusing me23:55
johnxcause I know I can't necessarily takes things linked against a newer libc to an older one23:56
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lcukthats usually cos of function creep23:58
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