| crashanddie_ | and that we'll have to use those clues to find whatever the pharma company is after | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zerojay | They are the modern knights templar. | 00:00 |
| crashanddie_ | there's some chinese references on the walls, as well as american (as in, native american) and stuff | 00:01 |
| crashanddie_ | so I'm guessing we'll be using the animus to go back to probably several different eras in time | 00:01 |
| zerojay | Animus 2.0's... Heh... Interesting. | 00:02 |
| crashanddie_ | medieval china would be cool, cool buildings and loads of details to climb on, also, sword would make sense | 00:02 |
| zerojay | If you liked ac1, ac2 will make you happier. | 00:02 |
| crashanddie_ | maya didn't really use swords that much | 00:02 |
| crashanddie_ | but will have to see | 00:02 |
| crashanddie_ | I just hope they don't go the ancient egypt way | 00:03 |
| zerojay | There was an analyst claiming he knew ac2 was french revolution. | 00:03 |
| zerojay | I had a big laugh at that bs. | 00:03 |
| RST38h | you hopeless virtual tourists | 00:03 |
| crashanddie_ | that would be pretty boring | 00:03 |
| RST38h | when have you played an actually FUN game last time? | 00:04 |
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| Stskeeps | pacman | 00:04 |
| Stskeeps | and bubble bobble! | 00:04 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:04 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, I told her to yell out of the window everytime I spanked her, that was fun | 00:04 |
| RST38h | yep | 00:04 |
| zerojay | Fun's different to everyone. | 00:04 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie_: blow-up dolls don't speak | 00:04 |
| RST38h | virtual tourism stopped being fun somewhere around quake3 | 00:05 |
| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N810, how many chicks gave you their numbers at 1.0? | 00:05 |
| crashanddie_ | 0 | 00:05 |
| zerojay | Virtual tourism? | 00:05 |
| crashanddie_ | onedotzero in London | 00:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I didn't hang around | 00:06 |
| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N810, you should've | 00:06 |
| RST38h | zerojay: that is when they give you a gun and let you wonder around some 3d world or another beating baddies | 00:08 |
| Stskeeps | why did i read that as ladies? | 00:08 |
| RST38h | Sts: Shrink to the rescue! | 00:09 |
| crashanddie_ | i read that "being given a gun and let you wander around some 3rd world country" | 00:09 |
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| Dantonic | hi | 00:15 |
| Dantonic | hey small question, I'm logged into my ubuntu box through ssh. what is the command to copy file and folders from the box to my NIT? thought it was "get boxpath NITpath" isnt that correct? | 00:16 |
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| crashanddie_ | Dantonic, no | 00:19 |
| crashanddie_ | Dantonic, no need to be connected through SSH first | 00:19 |
| Dantonic | oh? | 00:19 |
| crashanddie_ | Dantonic, what you can do is: scp username@host:/path/to/file/name.ext /path/to/where/to/put/it/on/your/NIT | 00:19 |
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| Dantonic | I see, how would I use that command if I wanted to copy a whole directory? | 00:20 |
| Dantonic | a folder | 00:20 |
| crashanddie_ | Dantonic, what you can do is: scp -r username@host:/path/to/directory /path/to/where/to/put/it/on/your/NIT | 00:21 |
| Dantonic | I see -r for recursive? | 00:21 |
| crashanddie_ | or if on your desktop to your nit: scp -r /path/to/directory username@host:/path/to/destination | 00:21 |
| crashanddie_ | Dantonic, also, man scp | 00:21 |
| Dantonic | cool well but what if I'm in through ssh because I'm browsing the folders, let's say I dont know what I need until I see it and I'm in that directory, how do I copy while logged in? same way? | 00:22 |
| crashanddie_ | Dantonic, read | 00:23 |
| crashanddie_ | Dantonic, I gave you the solution already | 00:23 |
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| Dantonic | damn says "permission" denied on my local path | 00:29 |
| Dantonic | crashanddie_, I'm using /MyDocs as my local path | 00:29 |
| Dantonic | I need sudo maybe? | 00:31 |
| Dantonic | trying | 00:31 |
| lardman | what are you doing? | 00:31 |
| Dantonic | just trying to copy from my ubuntu box to my NIT | 00:32 |
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| Dantonic | trying to login from my nit | 00:32 |
| Dantonic | crashanddie_, suggested an scp command | 00:32 |
| lardman | file transfer then? | 00:32 |
| Dantonic | ah it worked with sudo | 00:32 |
| Dantonic | yes | 00:32 |
| Dantonic | I used scp -r username@host:/path/to/directory /path/to/where/to/put/it/on/your/NIT | 00:32 |
| lardman | I'd use sftp, but scp should also work | 00:32 |
| Dantonic | it did... | 00:33 |
| Dantonic | lardman, maybe you know, if I'm logged in through ssh from my N800 to the desktop, and browsing files, and I want to copy some files to my N800 would I use the same scp command? | 00:33 |
| lardman | hmm, no idea, haven't used scp for years | 00:34 |
| lardman | sorry | 00:34 |
| Dantonic | np | 00:34 |
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| johnx | Dantonic, so you want to run scp on the desktop or the n800? | 00:36 |
| Dantonic | hey johnx I'm only using the N800 | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | just wondering if I'm logged in through ssh | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | browsing my desktops file system | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | and I want to copy some files or a directory to my N800 | 00:37 |
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| Dantonic | do I still use scp command? | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | or just cp? | 00:37 |
| johnx | yeah, but in that case you'd be executing the scp command on your desktop | 00:38 |
| ShellEvil | scp is for remote use | 00:38 |
| ShellEvil | generally | 00:38 |
| Dantonic | ah ok | 00:38 |
| johnx | ie: you're telling your desktop "run scp" | 00:38 |
| Dantonic | so to copy I would just do what? cp -r direcotry/path user@N800:/path ? | 00:38 |
| johnx | so you'd say: scp file.jpg user@192.168.1.x:/home/user/MyDocs/ | 00:38 |
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| johnx | being logged into your desktop with ssh is *exactly* the same as actually sitting at it | 00:39 |
| Dantonic | yah with scp, but if I'm logged into ssh and browsing the desktops file directory, is there a way to just copy while logged into the desktop? | 00:39 |
| Dantonic | ah I see | 00:39 |
| Dantonic | aaaaah ok | 00:39 |
| Dantonic | :P | 00:39 |
| johnx | however, in that case: sftp or gftp are good commands to use | 00:39 |
| Dantonic | so it would just be the inverse command | 00:39 |
| Dantonic | oh how do those work? | 00:39 |
| johnx | you have gftp, right? | 00:40 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: depends one whether or not audio works :) | 00:40 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, hmm? | 00:40 |
| Dantonic | I have gftp client installed on my NIT, and I was trying to figure out how to setup a server on my desktop... but I'm guessing I don't need that do I to just transfer files :P | 00:40 |
| johnx | Dantonic, you already *have* a server setup if you can ssh to your desktop :P | 00:40 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: ssh isn't a perfect equivalent :) | 00:40 |
| Dantonic | I'm not very familiar with ftp | 00:40 |
| timeless_mbp | Dantonic: basically if you can establish an ssh connection, you can establish an scp or sftp connection | 00:41 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, I appreciate the nit picking, but I'm talking in generalities for the time being | 00:41 |
| timeless_mbp | they use the same handshake | 00:41 |
| timeless_mbp | and nearly identical argument | 00:41 |
| timeless_mbp | s | 00:41 |
| Dantonic | timeless, johnx could you give me a sample usage of the ftp command? | 00:41 |
| Dantonic | why use one over the other? | 00:42 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 00:42 |
| johnx | Dantonic, have you ever used ftp on the command line? | 00:42 |
| timeless_mbp | scp is for single instance transactions | 00:42 |
| Dantonic | johnx, never | 00:42 |
| timeless_mbp | sftp is for multiple transactions + directory browsing | 00:42 |
| johnx | Dantonic, how about I walk you through how to use gftp | 00:42 |
| timeless_mbp | ssh is for generic remote command execution | 00:42 |
| johnx | I think you'll like it | 00:42 |
| Dantonic | sure if you don't mind! | 00:42 |
| johnx | no prob, let me reboot into maemo :) | 00:43 |
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| esaym153 | Are any of the third party web browsers better than the default one? | 00:45 |
| esaym153 | The default one seems slow and eats ram... | 00:45 |
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| johnx | Tear | 00:45 |
| esaym153 | hmm, I will try it out | 00:45 |
| johnx | it's pretty awesome really | 00:45 |
| johnx | and try using it with the "iphone" versions of websites if you want even more speed and slickness | 00:46 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 00:46 | |
| timeless_mbp | that's unfair | 00:46 |
| Dantonic | idk I still prefer MicroB... Tear works nicely, but it's still not 100% compatible with some sites... there are hangups here and there... | 00:46 |
| timeless_mbp | the default browser appreciates iPhone pages as much as any other mobile browser | 00:46 |
| johnx | Dantonic, alright, got gftp in front of me | 00:46 |
| Dantonic | but it is fast! | 00:46 |
| esaym153 | what is the browserd process that is always running i the background? If I install tear should I try to kill that process? | 00:46 |
| Dantonic | ok johnx | 00:46 |
| Dantonic | I have it open as well | 00:46 |
| timeless_mbp | esaym153: browserd is the actual browser engine | 00:47 |
| johnx | esaym153, just enable swap and let it get swapped out when it's not needed. easy :) | 00:47 |
| timeless_mbp | the browser process is just the user interface | 00:47 |
| johnx | Dantonic, alright, click the "two computers" icon in the center | 00:47 |
| esaym153 | how to get to iphone pages? | 00:47 |
| Dantonic | ok | 00:47 |
| RST38h | ? | 00:47 |
| timeless_mbp | esaym153: sadly, that depends on the server :) | 00:47 |
| esaym153 | that .mobi stuff? | 00:47 |
| RST38h | ? | 00:47 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 00:47 |
| johnx | Dantonic, put in your ubuntu box's IP address | 00:47 |
| johnx | for the port: 22 | 00:47 |
| esaym153 | so tear is just an interface on top of broswerd? | 00:48 |
| johnx | for the user: the user on your ubuntu box | 00:48 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 00:48 |
| timeless_mbp | tear is its own browser | 00:48 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc tear uses webkit | 00:48 |
| esaym153 | oh | 00:49 |
| johnx | Dantonic, and where it says "FTP" pull down the box and find SSH2 | 00:49 |
| johnx | then hit connect | 00:49 |
| esaym153 | so I could do away with browserd then... | 00:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | esaym153: if you want to break your device | 00:49 |
| johnx | and timeless_mbp. not fair? hmm? | 00:49 |
| timeless_mbp | there are lots of things you could do | 00:49 |
| timeless_mbp | that would be one of them | 00:49 |
| esaym153 | oh ... | 00:49 |
| Dantonic | oh already clicked with "ftp" option johnx | 00:49 |
| Dantonic | it's trying to connect | 00:49 |
| * qwerty12_N810 doesn't bother with having browserd started up on this N810 | 00:49 | |
| Dantonic | johnx, will the ftp option not work? | 00:49 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: what do you do for the feed reader app? :) | 00:49 |
| johnx | Dantonic, it won't. you have an ssh server on your desktop, not an ftp server | 00:50 |
| timeless_mbp | Dantonic: ftp is both a concept and a specific protocol | 00:50 |
| johnx | Dantonic, first get ssh working, then if the speed is really a problem, you can try ftp | 00:50 |
| timeless_mbp | as a specific protocol, it's absolutely insecure and in general should never be running anywhere except for read only access to resources | 00:50 |
| Dantonic | all right connecting | 00:51 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: I used to use its "copy link" function but someone made a Python script that forwards the load_url/open_new_window DBus messages to Tear | 00:51 |
| Dantonic | timeless_mbp, you mean ftp in insecure? | 00:51 |
| timeless_mbp | Dantonic: the classic ftp protocol sends login credentials in the clear | 00:51 |
| Dantonic | ah | 00:51 |
| johnx | Dantonic, what you're doing is something like "ftp over ssh" which is quite secure if you don't share your passwords :) | 00:51 |
| Dantonic | ok... still "connecting" btw | 00:52 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: why isn't it labeled sftp? | 00:52 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc sftp is not technically related to ftp as protocols go | 00:52 |
| johnx | probably true | 00:52 |
| johnx | ask the author? | 00:52 |
| johnx | Dantonic, so you specified ssh2 from the dropdown and 22 for the port? | 00:53 |
| johnx | and it's still taking forever to connect? | 00:53 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Honestly, the best MicroB experience I ever had was in Chinook with its browserd-less MicroB and the microb-engine packages from SVN | 00:53 |
| Dantonic | johnx, that's correct I'm trying again | 00:53 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: the best experience i've had is on the n900 :) | 00:53 |
| Dantonic | johnx, the first one timed out | 00:54 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: I keep making it zoom by accident :( | 00:54 |
| lardman | anyone tried the example Fremantle camera code on the SDK? | 00:54 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: better than accidentally deleting 100 messages from your mailbox | 00:54 |
| * timeless_mbp did that a few hours ago | 00:54 | |
| Dantonic | johnx, still nothing :( do I have to install ssh2? | 00:55 |
| Dantonic | or is it the same as just ssh? | 00:55 |
| Dantonic | opnessh | 00:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: ouch :\ | 00:55 |
| timeless_mbp | and there's no undo | 00:55 |
| timeless_mbp | since it was my spam folder :( | 00:55 |
| timeless_mbp | i was trying to select a message which wasn't spam | 00:55 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: and this is why I keep my maildir in Git | 00:55 |
| johnx | Dantonic, ok, so let's review. you can run this on your n800: ssh dantonic@192.168.1.x | 00:55 |
| johnx | where x is your IP | 00:56 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: and how big is your maildir? | 00:56 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: the Git repo or the maildir itself? | 00:56 |
| timeless_mbp | You are currently using 5597 MB (75%) of your 7369 MB. | 00:56 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: i don't think it really matters :) | 00:56 |
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| johnx | so I'd type: ssh john@192.168.1.199 | 00:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | as formats go, i think git would be an incredibly stupid format | 00:57 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: 616,735 messages in ~300 folders, 6.9 GB disk space | 00:57 |
| johnx | so in gftp I put 192.168.1.199 for IP | 00:57 |
| johnx | john for user | 00:57 |
| johnx | 22 for port | 00:57 |
| johnx | and pull down to ssh2 | 00:57 |
| Dantonic | johnx, ya trying again in terminal just to make sure | 00:57 |
| Dantonic | give me a minute | 00:57 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: Git repo is 3.9 GB | 00:57 |
| johnx | hmm, for mail backups, rsnapshot of a maildir should work nicely | 00:57 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: Pushed git repo is 2.9 GB | 00:58 |
| Dantonic | yup just logged in through terminal johnx | 00:58 |
| luke-jr | johnx: git ftw | 00:58 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: so... | 00:58 |
| timeless_mbp | you're basically wasting 3gb of space | 00:58 |
| timeless_mbp | making your mailbox bigger than mine | 00:58 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: backups are not waste | 00:58 |
| timeless_mbp | but only for overhead you can't possibly use in any remotely reasonable manner | 00:58 |
| Dantonic | johnx, under host I put ONLY the ip? or also the user@192.168.1.xxx? | 00:58 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: zfs snapshot could be useful | 00:58 |
| johnx | Dantonic, only IP | 00:58 |
| timeless_mbp | git is not useful | 00:58 |
| Dantonic | ok that's what I had done johnx | 00:59 |
| johnx | alright | 00:59 |
| johnx | and the 22 is necessary for Port | 00:59 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: of course it is | 00:59 |
| luke-jr | the overhead is minimal | 00:59 |
| timeless_mbp | git assumes you have some benefit from sequential access to changes to your mailbox | 00:59 |
| luke-jr | and it is smaller than a simple copy backup | 00:59 |
| timeless_mbp | which you aren't going to have | 00:59 |
| timeless_mbp | zfs snapshot otoh lets you randomly drop versions you no longer need -- *safely* | 00:59 |
| Dantonic | johnx, its loggin on I see different messages now | 00:59 |
| Dantonic | I think it'll work :P | 01:00 |
| Dantonic | not sure what was wrong before johnx but it worked this time | 01:00 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: as I never delete emails, it is irrelevant to me | 01:00 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 01:00 |
| Dantonic | I see the file system :) | 01:00 |
| luke-jr | the overhead is minimal, and I get live backups | 01:00 |
| timeless_mbp | so you're basically wasting 3gb of data for nothing | 01:00 |
| timeless_mbp | even better | 01:00 |
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| luke-jr | if my mail server gets bombed, I can still restore the mailbox within 2 minutes | 01:00 |
| * timeless_mbp contemplates the math there | 01:01 | |
| johnx | Dantonic, then you can hit the menu and make yourself a nice bookmark :) | 01:01 |
| Dantonic | yay!!!! johnx thans so much! | 01:01 |
| johnx | Dantonic, sure :) | 01:01 |
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| Dantonic | here's another question, would it be horribly difficult to loginto my file system remotely? through the internet? | 01:02 |
| johnx | see, you thought this would be more difficult than it was :D | 01:02 |
| Dantonic | I know that's very easy :P | 01:02 |
| johnx | Dantonic, did you get port forwarding working last night? | 01:02 |
| lardman | rubbish British rail/devolved companies | 01:02 |
| Dantonic | I thought I had to use FTP with gFTP :P | 01:02 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: my script does a git push to my local site about 2 minutes after a change | 01:02 |
| johnx | Dantonic, nah, lots of the newer "FTP" clients know about ssh/sftp. Old style unencrypted FTP is going away slowly but surel | 01:03 |
| johnx | y | 01:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Dantonic: The first line of its description in the App. manager is: "GTK+ FTP[S]/HTTP[S]/SSH2/FSP client" | 01:04 |
| Dantonic | johnx, I was never trying to port forward, but I created a static IP address for my box... well basically my router doesnt allow for setting static IPs assigned to mac addresses, so I read somewhere to just assing the static IP on the desktop, and the router will follow suit... so I think I do have a static ip atm because that's how I connected to the dekstop from the N800, and it is between .2-.99 so I know the router isnt assigning a | 01:04 |
| Dantonic | dhcp ip to the desktop | 01:04 |
| johnx | Dantonic, ah, good deal | 01:04 |
| johnx | you might want to read up on how to do port forwarding on your router. it's not that simple, but it's doable | 01:04 |
| Dantonic | qwerty12_N810, ya I know, please excuse my noobness in regards to all this... I'm a very recent Winblows convert still learning what everything means | 01:05 |
| ShellEvil | depending on your router. | 01:05 |
| ShellEvil | Some are broken enough not to add it. | 01:05 |
| johnx | he's got a WRT54GS :) | 01:05 |
| ShellEvil | Then again - this is a company that doesn't do the GPL. | 01:05 |
| johnx | Dantonic, good choice on router, BTW :) | 01:05 |
| ShellEvil | (the broken one) | 01:05 |
| ShellEvil | yeah | 01:05 |
| Dantonic | johnx, I think I've done it before, because I had to do it to play my favorite game of all time... Starcraft | 01:05 |
| Dantonic | but that was a couple years ago | 01:05 |
| Dantonic | gotta remember how | 01:05 |
| Dantonic | :P | 01:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Dantonic: Heh, I still use Windows... :p | 01:06 |
| Dantonic | well I do to, but in Virtual Box :) | 01:06 |
| Dantonic | for some progs I need | 01:06 |
| Dantonic | that don't work with wine | 01:06 |
| * ShellEvil has a HD he needs to drop into virtualbox. | 01:07 | |
| ShellEvil | I accidentally bought a legit copy of windows :/ | 01:07 |
| Dantonic | ok johnx so what do I need to forward exactly? | 01:07 |
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| johnx | if you search for: port forwarding WRT54GS | 01:08 |
| Dantonic | johnx, the desktop IP to the actual IP address? | 01:08 |
| johnx | there are some very good guides | 01:08 |
| johnx | follow a guide for port forwarding for bittorrent, but replace the port numbers with: 22 | 01:09 |
| johnx | and just do the rest the same | 01:09 |
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| Dantonic | well I have a very nice "port forwarding" tab that has port ranges and ip addresses | 01:10 |
| Dantonic | so should I just put the desktop ip for address and what for port range? | 01:10 |
| Dantonic | 22-22? | 01:10 |
| johnx | sounds good | 01:10 |
| Dantonic | udp or tcp? | 01:11 |
| johnx | tcp | 01:11 |
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| Dantonic | all right saved the settings... | 01:11 |
| Dantonic | now how do I test it? | 01:11 |
| johnx | now: drive to your local coffee shop | 01:11 |
| Dantonic | well I can logonto my 3g with the N800 | 01:12 |
| Dantonic | :P | 01:12 |
| johnx | cheater :P | 01:12 |
| Dantonic | ok now do I use my dns address? | 01:13 |
| Dantonic | to login? | 01:13 |
| johnx | you don't :) | 01:13 |
| johnx | use your router's "internet" IP address | 01:14 |
| johnx | don't know where it's listed on the Linksys firmware for the WRT54GS | 01:14 |
| Dantonic | got it on the "status" page | 01:14 |
| Dantonic | port 22 still right? | 01:14 |
| johnx | yup | 01:14 |
| Dantonic | omg johnx I love you you're my new BEST FRIEND! | 01:16 |
| johnx | hahaha | 01:16 |
| johnx | cool | 01:16 |
| Dantonic | lol | 01:16 |
| johnx | glad it works for you | 01:16 |
| Dantonic | tytytyty | 01:16 |
| johnx | welcome to the future | 01:16 |
| Dantonic | from now on any post of yours I see on maemo.org I will thank no matter what! | 01:16 |
| johnx | uhm, nah | 01:16 |
| johnx | that's going to far | 01:16 |
| Dantonic | lol | 01:16 |
| johnx | I'm cranky a lot of the time on talk.maemo.org | 01:16 |
| RST38h | send him flower basket | 01:16 |
| johnx | just buy me a beer if I'm in the area | 01:17 |
| Dantonic | very cool stuff... I knew this was doable, but just thought it was more complicated... | 01:17 |
| johnx | just take it step by step | 01:17 |
| johnx | and make the simple stuff work first | 01:17 |
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| Dantonic | damn I need a better password now... | 01:17 |
| johnx | yes | 01:17 |
| Dantonic | how do I change my root password? | 01:17 |
| johnx | on ubuntu? | 01:18 |
| Dantonic | yes | 01:18 |
| johnx | by default it's not set | 01:18 |
| Corsac | sudo passwd | 01:18 |
| johnx | so *no one* can log in to root | 01:18 |
| Dantonic | well I set it but its weak | 01:18 |
| Dantonic | ok thanks corsac | 01:18 |
| Dantonic | I've set a root password on it | 01:18 |
| johnx | and yeah: now that you've opened up ssh to the internet you *will* get random people trying to guess passwords | 01:18 |
| Dantonic | and that's the password it prompts me when logging on through ssh I think... | 01:18 |
| johnx | so make sure *all* the account passwords on your box are good | 01:19 |
| Corsac | .aw palB/aw pala | 01:19 |
| Dantonic | *all*? | 01:19 |
| johnx | all the users | 01:19 |
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| Dantonic | I only have on password :/ | 01:19 |
| Dantonic | ah ok | 01:19 |
| Dantonic | that's just one | 01:19 |
| Dantonic | :) | 01:19 |
| johnx | but you set the root password as well? | 01:19 |
| Dantonic | idk I just set one password, and I know everytime I access some progs or use sudo it asks me for it | 01:20 |
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| Dantonic | I set it when I installed | 01:20 |
| Dantonic | is that the root passwd? | 01:20 |
| johnx | that's your user password | 01:20 |
| Dantonic | ah | 01:20 |
| johnx | so you type: sudo whoami | 01:20 |
| johnx | and put in that password and it says root, right? | 01:20 |
| Dantonic | yes it does | 01:21 |
| johnx | but there's also a real "root" password that let's you type: su - | 01:21 |
| johnx | so try su - | 01:21 |
| johnx | and see if you can type the same password and have it accept it | 01:21 |
| Dantonic | authentication failure | 01:21 |
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| johnx | no root password set | 01:22 |
| Dantonic | hmm so I can't even access it? | 01:22 |
| johnx | that's probably the "right thing" (tm) | 01:22 |
| Dantonic | root? | 01:22 |
| johnx | yes, you can, but you use your "user" password | 01:22 |
| johnx | only one password, means only one password you have to remember | 01:22 |
| johnx | so make it twice as hard to guess :> | 01:22 |
| Dantonic | I see | 01:23 |
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| Dantonic | ya I definitely ahve to change it... what can you do with a root password what would you need that for? | 01:23 |
| johnx | you don't on ubuntu | 01:23 |
| johnx | it just allows you to "directly" login to root | 01:23 |
| Dantonic | ah ok but sudo replaces that | 01:23 |
| johnx | exactly | 01:23 |
| Dantonic | I mean sudo allows you to do everything... | 01:23 |
| Dantonic | ok | 01:23 |
| Dantonic | johnx, what OS do you run? | 01:24 |
| johnx | it's just a two step process: 1) login as dantonic 2) sudo | 01:24 |
| johnx | ubuntu on the desktop | 01:24 |
| Dantonic | 9.04? | 01:24 |
| johnx | yup | 01:24 |
| johnx | and maemo4 and/or mer on the n800 | 01:24 |
| Dantonic | let me ask you... I have a problem... cant resolve it... http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1264418 | 01:25 |
| johnx | no idea | 01:25 |
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| johnx | suspend has always been flakey on some hardware | 01:25 |
| johnx | I just don't suspend my desktop | 01:25 |
| johnx | that's probably some real kernel level debugging | 01:25 |
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| Dantonic | I see | 01:25 |
| Dantonic | just wondering if you had the same problem | 01:25 |
| johnx | I might if I tried to suspend :) | 01:25 |
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| Dantonic | I was very used to suspend | 01:26 |
| Dantonic | now I shutdown every time :( | 01:26 |
| johnx | desktop is on 24/7 here since it serves files for the whole network | 01:26 |
| johnx | but I also figure out in advance: 1) what do I need to work in ubuntu 2) given that what hardware do I need to buy | 01:26 |
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| Dantonic | I see so you go off of a compatible hardware list or something? | 01:27 |
| Dantonic | is there such a list? | 01:27 |
| johnx | Dantonic, I just do some research with google | 01:27 |
| Dantonic | I'm actually getting close to building a new box... | 01:27 |
| Dantonic | I'll look into that | 01:27 |
| RST38h | unity3d.com <==== write these guys and ask them to port!!! | 01:27 |
| johnx | hey Firebird :) saw your game. looks very nice, hopefully I'll get a chance to try it out later | 01:27 |
| johnx | oh, while we're talking 3D, anyone see WebGL in webkit :) | 01:28 |
| johnx | looks kinda interesting | 01:28 |
| Firebird | heh, thanks johnx | 01:28 |
| RST38h | not yet | 01:28 |
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| johnx | with a GL->GLES wrapper, it might be workable on the pandora/n900/touchbook | 01:29 |
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| johnx | that'd be pretty amazing | 01:29 |
| johnx | anyways, gotta change the spark plugs on my car while it's still light out | 01:30 |
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| johnx | 'later | 01:30 |
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| Dantonic | gtg to work thanks again johnx | 01:37 |
| Dantonic | ttyl | 01:37 |
| lardman | night all | 01:39 |
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| rm_you | johnx: ping | 02:03 |
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| rm_you | GAN800: you going to the summit this time> | 02:08 |
| rm_you | ? | 02:08 |
| rm_you | also someone remind me, we have hotels booked for the night of the 8th, 9th, and 10th? | 02:09 |
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| luke-jr | rm_you: no, THEY have hotels booked for the night of the 8th, 9th, and 10th. YOU get to sit out in the cold. The cat needs his own room. | 02:25 |
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| * th3_4zarado slaps th3_4zarado around a bit with a large trout | 02:29 | |
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| luke-jr | th3_4zarado: hey, no animal abuse in here please! | 02:31 |
| th3_4zarado | mistake | 02:32 |
| Firebird9 | uh oh, my hard-drive is making squealing noises | 02:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | backup | 02:35 |
| ShadowJK | Or panic | 02:37 |
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| Firebird9 | hmm, the noise continues when I turn my computer off... wonder where its coming from -_- | 02:43 |
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| MrGoose | theres a new ebook plugin for canola | 02:49 |
| MrGoose | has anyone used it? | 02:49 |
| MrGoose | I cant figure out how to install it | 02:49 |
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| ShadowJK | Firebird9: I'ved often hunted rattling fans after leaving the cork on soda bottles slightly open | 02:56 |
| ShadowJK | So that the gas buildup insided has made a bubbling/popping sound at the cork | 02:57 |
| * b-man16 waits for his OMAP3 pandora kernel to finish building.......... | 02:57 | |
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| RST38h | will it finish before or after pandora ships? =) | 03:01 |
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| RST38h | "Ingredients list, including such materials as live leeches, skullcap seeds, chicken fetuses, snake skin, ginger root, mandrake root, lily-of-the-valley-water, spider eggs, and nearly two dozen more items, in varying amounts. The most prominent ingredient appears to be a living human being, preferably a child." | 03:07 |
| wazd | http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/09/14/fremantle-swipe-launch/ | 03:07 |
| RST38h | wazd: according to at least one screenshot, Fremantle has got the iPhone-like unlock slider. | 03:08 |
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| wazd | RST38h: yeah, saw that :) | 03:08 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I wonder why you'll need software lock if you have hardware lock :) | 03:09 |
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| RST38h | coolness factor? | 03:10 |
| wazd | meh :) | 03:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: THAT unlocker that I've seen is definitely not cool :D | 03:11 |
| RST38h | besides, hardware lock lets you turn the locked screen off, software lock like the one used in iPhone does not | 03:11 |
| RST38h | wazd: To each his own. Notice how Eldar absolutely hated the Twist | 03:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: yeah, he likes boring touch bricks :) | 03:12 |
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| RST38h | "SCP-735 is capable of speaking to a subject in any known language and dialect, but has a tendency to use one that will be the most upsetting to the person interacting with it." | 03:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: I got to use an iPod Touch today. The most annoying thing is how I always try to use a nail to touch the screen and it.just.doesnt.work. | 03:15 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, it's a matter of time :) | 03:16 |
| RST38h | ah also the screen kinda sucks | 03:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: yeah, especialy wieh it's with n800/810 side by side | 03:18 |
| wazd | when* | 03:18 |
| wazd | what's wieh I wonder :D | 03:19 |
| RST38h | a town in .de? | 03:21 |
| ShadowJK | i wish there was a tmo theme like minimalist dark or light, but with font size of the 'talk.maemo.org' theme | 03:23 |
| ShadowJK | The minimalist theme has hueg fonts | 03:23 |
| RST38h | yep | 03:23 |
| RST38h | and the pages are still 100+kB each | 03:24 |
| RST38h | somebody has to tell reggie that he loses nothing by using old urchin.cs | 03:24 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah tmo theme is twice that, and loads much slower. Must be referencing something on slow servers | 03:24 |
| ShadowJK | Or lots of pointless js | 03:25 |
| RST38h | he uses google analytics new .js file for tracking | 03:25 |
| RST38h | This file alone is 100kB. If he changes back to the old urchin.cs, the Google Analytics will still work but the load volume will be much less | 03:26 |
| ShadowJK | Sigh | 03:27 |
| ShadowJK | It's a cancer | 03:27 |
| * ShadowJK switched off js | 03:27 | |
| ShadowJK | 218kbyte | 03:29 |
| ShadowJK | i'm using 5x7 pixel font normally in putty, etc, and then tmo shows up in some ludicrous 32x32 | 03:29 |
| ShadowJK | With minimalist | 03:30 |
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| Macer | wow | 03:31 |
| Macer | vampire diaries is idiotic | 03:31 |
| Macer | :) thought it would be more like true blood | 03:31 |
| Macer | and it totally sucks | 03:31 |
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| * ShadowJK fails at fibguring out how to go to last unread post in thread in tmo thene | 03:37 | |
| ShadowJK | Oh right, that column was clickable too | 03:39 |
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| Macer | tmo thene? | 03:45 |
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| carboncopy | hello everybody | 03:59 |
| carboncopy | have a quick question to ask :) | 03:59 |
| carboncopy | on N810 the /media/mmc2 | 03:59 |
| carboncopy | is it not writable? am trying to delete stuffs on it. those default videos etc. | 04:00 |
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| zerojay | It's writable. | 04:00 |
| carboncopy | oh.. hmmm.. | 04:00 |
| carboncopy | when tried deleting stuff using File Manager or XTerm | 04:01 |
| carboncopy | both told me i can't do it | 04:02 |
| carboncopy | ok, now that i plugged into USB | 04:02 |
| carboncopy | trying to delete it using FC11 | 04:02 |
| carboncopy | Error stating file 'foo/bar/map/navicore/ids': Input/output error | 04:03 |
| carboncopy | I say skip | 04:03 |
| carboncopy | Now it says Read-only file system | 04:03 |
| carboncopy | :( | 04:03 |
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| blendmaster1024 | will the linux the maemo is going to run be android or a custom distro? | 04:08 |
| zerojay | The distro is called maemo. It is not based on android. | 04:09 |
| blendmaster1024 | aw. i was hoping that if i wrote an andriod app, i would not have to do any porting... | 04:10 |
| blendmaster1024 | oh well, i'll write a maemo app | 04:10 |
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| rm_you | Someone confirm that I want to be flying out of Amsterdam on Sunday the 11th? | 04:15 |
| luke-jr | blendmaster1024: write a Qt app. then it will run on (almost?) anything | 04:18 |
| blendmaster1024 | really? | 04:19 |
| rm_you | oh, no... we ahve stuff until 4pm on the 11th <_< | 04:20 |
| luke-jr | blendmaster1024: well, at least Mac, Windows, and X11 | 04:21 |
| luke-jr | blendmaster1024: Maemo too | 04:21 |
| luke-jr | Symbian apparently too | 04:22 |
| angasule | luke-jr: linux framebuffer, too | 04:25 |
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| pupnik_ | n900 ame port candidate: Total Annihilation 3D http://www.ta3d.org/linuxdl-en.php | 04:40 |
| ds3 | is Mer fully sync'ed up with the N900 release? In particular, does Mer now have the A2DP support? | 04:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | ds3, no. | 04:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N900's software has not been released yet. | 04:44 |
| ds3 | oh :( | 04:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wait for a release. ;) | 04:44 |
| ds3 | I suppose.... | 04:47 |
| ds3 | btw, are there any Peer to Peer Bluetooth messaging system software for the N800? | 04:48 |
| C4colo | I have an old nokia 770 ... was hoping to make a car computer out of it. Done some research, but what's the best option for software? | 04:54 |
| C4colo | I only have the 64mb card | 04:54 |
| C4colo | I was reading that the 2008 runs better with a bigger card and some extra swap on there | 04:54 |
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| C4colo | is there a way to strip down the 2008 version to just the basics and only put on the few items I need on there? | 04:57 |
| ds3 | C4colo: what do you want to do with it? | 04:57 |
| C4colo | mostly music | 04:58 |
| C4colo | turn the USB port around and hook up storage of some sort | 04:58 |
| C4colo | if I get real creative bluetooth or usb gps and some sort of mapping software | 04:59 |
| ds3 | you can probally strip it down but unless all you do is play stuff through the DSP, the 1710 may choke a bit | 04:59 |
| ds3 | Maemo mapper + OGG on a N800 does not work well | 04:59 |
| C4colo | hmm, was hoping something like mplayer | 04:59 |
| C4colo | the other option is to use it as a remote display for a mini-itx board somehow | 05:01 |
| C4colo | maybe hack it to do remote x-server proxy stuff | 05:01 |
| dragorn | C4colo: rdp/vnc works on it | 05:02 |
| C4colo | hmm | 05:03 |
| dragorn | that was the best plan I ever came up with for doing a car ui with one | 05:03 |
| dragorn | but then i never botherede | 05:03 |
| dragorn | it's in a box somewhere | 05:03 |
| C4colo | heh | 05:03 |
| C4colo | if I get it working ... i'll probably not have documented it | 05:03 |
| ds3 | is there a workable Vorbis player for the DSPyet? | 05:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Goddamnit | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | I hate when idiots spread SDXC FUD around. | 05:05 |
| Pavlov | ds3: still waiting.. | 05:06 |
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| carboncopy | hi am back | 05:08 |
| carboncopy | i found out why the mmc2 was locked | 05:09 |
| carboncopy | supposedly it was corrupted | 05:09 |
| carboncopy | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=125349&postcount=44 | 05:09 |
| carboncopy | that link help me solved it | 05:09 |
| carboncopy | :D | 05:09 |
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| blendmaster1024 | is there going to be any closed-source software used on the maemo? for instance, as the desktop environment? or is it going to be opensource stuff? (i'm aware that it will be mostly or all custom software) | 05:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia's differentiation stuff is closed. | 05:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | But most of the platform stuff and the DE stuff is open. | 05:22 |
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| johnx | rm_you, pomg | 05:35 |
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| ShadowJK | Nokia online shop finland now estimates preorders will ship w44 or w45 | 06:32 |
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| zerojayPC | Which is when for those of us that aren't europeans and don't generally think in week numbers? :) | 06:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 06:33 |
| tank-man | I would have not guessed those were week numbers | 06:33 |
| zerojayPC | Exactly my point. :) | 06:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I only would thanks to Maemo. | 06:33 |
| zerojayPC | Same here. | 06:34 |
| tank-man | oct26 - wk44 | 06:34 |
| johnx | hmm, I'd hoped it would be out sooner so that the price would already be dropping by the end of the year | 06:35 |
| johnx | should see a drop after christmas I would think though | 06:35 |
| johnx | though $650 is a rather steep christmas present IMHO | 06:35 |
| zerojayPC | That's the kind of christmas present you give when you absolutely wanna get laid. | 06:36 |
| zerojayPC | Like... I guess if you were a girl. | 06:36 |
| johnx | yeah, I think giving that to my wife would not have the desired result | 06:37 |
| zerojayPC | I'm borderline about if it would work with mine. | 06:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Clearly you should both try and see. | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | At worst Nokia is about $1300 richer. :P | 06:38 |
| zerojayPC | Nah, that's the sort of thing you only do when courting anyways. lol | 06:39 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, well, in the worst case scenario, I'd be out $650, and not getting laid because my wife was playing bounce on it constantly | 06:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 06:39 |
| johnx | heh...in fact, the likeliness of that outcome seems very high | 06:40 |
| johnx | mmm...mer looks so much nicer with the fremantle oxygen-icons theme that kontorri put together | 06:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Screenshots or it didn't happen. | 06:42 |
| johnx | sec | 06:42 |
| johnx | in the mean time, you saw the open source thumb keyboard example, right? | 06:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 06:44 |
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| johnx | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1356 | 06:45 |
| disco_stu | since maemo5 wont run in n8x0 are we n8x0 users moving to #mer on this irc ? | 06:46 |
| johnx | disco_stu, only if you want | 06:47 |
| johnx | still quite valid to talk about maemo4/n8x0 or maemo2/770 here | 06:47 |
| johnx | but yeah, for mer technical stuff, #mer will get you a better response | 06:47 |
| disco_stu | i feel bad in here, because maemo5 is so awesome | 06:48 |
| disco_stu | :/ | 06:48 |
| johnx | well, the hardware is a huge difference, and it makes the 3D accelerated stuff possible | 06:48 |
| johnx | but most of the software should come over to mer without much pain and look pretty nice | 06:49 |
| johnx | mer is kind of in the middle of (hopefully the last) interface transition | 06:49 |
| ShadowJK | It's funny, I was reading a popular .fi forum where Nokia Shop posts too | 06:49 |
| ShadowJK | and nobody was complaining about the price... | 06:50 |
| johnx | the probably destination of the latest mer-ui transition: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/couldntthiswork.png | 06:50 |
| ShadowJK | except one guy who said it's too low :P | 06:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nice | 06:50 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, seriously? not 'exclusive' enough for him? | 06:50 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, yup, the goal is to 'minimize delta' :) | 06:50 |
| johnx | as lbt would put it | 06:51 |
| ShadowJK | He argued that it should have been priced above N97 when the hw platform is a generation newer and all | 06:51 |
| ShadowJK | and then he complained that the resale value of his N97 will drop so fast now | 06:51 |
| ShadowJK | heh | 06:51 |
| johnx | ahaha | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't want shit resale value, don't buy shit phones. :P | 06:51 |
| ShadowJK | N97 is priced up there with iphone and samsung's "flagship" phones :) | 06:52 |
| ShadowJK | and then N900 shows up and undercuts them all | 06:52 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 06:52 |
| johnx | yeah, buying an arm11 for $700 in 2009 isn't exactly a genius move | 06:52 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 06:53 |
| johnx | well, at least if you're planning to sell it off later | 06:53 |
| johnx | if it works for you then, whatever | 06:53 |
| johnx | anyways, tried to compile the fsk example, but it looks like we're waiting on slightly newer him support libs due out with the next maemo5 sdk release | 06:55 |
| ShadowJK | the est shipping date slipping is either expectation management due to high amount of preorders, or new deadlines for fixing the bugs discovered by all those N900s nokia has given out :) | 06:55 |
| johnx | I won't touch it until January or so at earliest, so the sooner it gets out and gets cheaper, the better :> | 06:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, what about discount codes? ;) | 06:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll be really silly if they're not ready for the Summit, however. | 06:57 |
| ShadowJK | i think you have better chance waiting for discount in the us than here | 06:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Erm? | 06:57 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, dunno if I'll make the cut | 06:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pffft | 06:57 |
| johnx | well, dunno if I'm going to summit | 06:58 |
| johnx | but actually getting me a device is probably cheaper than getting me over the atlantic. heh | 06:58 |
| ShadowJK | when is summit? | 07:00 |
| johnx | oct 8,9,10 I think? | 07:01 |
| johnx | or thereabouts | 07:01 |
| ShadowJK | hah, lol | 07:05 |
| ShadowJK | enjoy summit without N900 then ;) | 07:05 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, http://sheeplauncher.net/~john/oxygen-icons.png | 07:18 |
| tigert | morn | 07:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Purty | 07:19 |
| johnx | mornin' | 07:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | I still want to stab nm to death everytime I see its icon in the statusbar, however. | 07:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hi, tigert. | 07:19 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, nm is the best choice among a whole field of not that great alternatives, but the good news is it's getting better and will continue to do so | 07:20 |
| * ShadowJK hugs nokia's "differentation" clone | 07:21 | |
| GeneralAntilles | That doesn't make me hate it less. :P | 07:21 |
| ShadowJK | it never gives me grief, it just works :) | 07:21 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, yup. turns out to be a non-starter for mer though | 07:22 |
| ShadowJK | and it even keeps its paws away from me giving myself seamless roaming between wlan and cell :D | 07:22 |
| johnx | and I think 'wheel reinvention' is actually my number 1 pet peeve | 07:22 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah except they did it right ;-) | 07:23 |
| ShadowJK | well.. except for not opensourcing it as a nm rival | 07:23 |
| johnx | and now we have to do it again | 07:23 |
| johnx | instead of fixing nm | 07:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not sure it's possible to fix nm. ;) | 07:23 |
| johnx | (I mean that because they didn't just fix nm) | 07:23 |
| ShadowJK | The biggest problem with nm is the people who wrote it, imo ;) | 07:23 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, they seem reasonable enough to me | 07:24 |
| johnx | have you talked with them much? | 07:24 |
| johnx | the biggest problem is that there are lots of situations where drivers weren't getting pushed on all that much, so when something actually pushes on them, all the bugs suddenly pop up | 07:25 |
| Sho_ | GeneralAntilles: Makes sense, considering the nm icon isn't Oxygen ;) | 07:25 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, yeah, we should just present new users with vi and tell them to go edit /etc/network/interfaces and forget about roaming | 07:25 |
| ShadowJK | Their answer to "NetworkManager doesn't support static IP and loses my DNS settings" in bugzilla was "Configure your DHCP server to serve out the correct settings on a per-MAC basis" or something such | 07:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, yes, clearly that would be my chosen alternative. | 07:26 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, yeah, well it was probably presented as a workaround, given that they've of course fixed that by now | 07:26 |
| ShadowJK | Still broken in NetworkManager 0.7.1 :) | 07:26 |
| * ShadowJK hasn't tried newer yet | 07:27 | |
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| disco_stu | nickar: are you from AR ? | 07:27 |
| nickar | yep :D | 07:27 |
| nickar | hi disco_stu | 07:27 |
| ShadowJK | I actually dread it. I have scripts and workarounds in place now to go fix all the config files after NetworkManager rewrites them with garbage | 07:27 |
| disco_stu | nickar: me parecia | 07:27 |
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| disco_stu | nickar: por la ip | 07:28 |
| nickar | jajaja, me conocés disco_stu | 07:28 |
| nickar | ah | 07:28 |
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| nickar | disco_stu: vos? | 07:28 |
| disco_stu | nickar: de mendoza | 07:28 |
| nickar | disco_stu: i am from BahÃa Blanca | 07:28 |
| disco_stu | nickar: cool :) | 07:28 |
| nickar | disco_stu: why don't we let other people to join us in our talk! (by speaking in english)?! | 07:29 |
| disco_stu | nickar: it's quiet at this time | 07:29 |
| nickar | yes, i see :D | 07:30 |
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| johnxx | ShadowJK, looks like the biggest fault with nm is that xchat doesn't understand disconnect/reconnect events | 07:31 |
| johnxx | and, yes, static IPs work | 07:31 |
| disco_stu | Stskeeps: did you finish the upload ? | 07:31 |
| nickar | disco_stu: what do you do for living? are you developer? | 07:32 |
| ShadowJK | johnx: wha | 07:32 |
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| disco_stu | nickar: software engineer | 07:32 |
| ShadowJK | I actually prefer it if NM keeps its paws away from xchat | 07:32 |
| johnxx | it's just an announcement on dbus | 07:32 |
| johnxx | things can ignore it if they want | 07:32 |
| ShadowJK | Just because a connection is down a few minutes doesn't mean you have to tear down tcp connections | 07:33 |
| johnxx | ShadowJK, also, which config files does it "destroy"? | 07:33 |
| johnxx | and things can react to it in any way they see fit | 07:33 |
| johnxx | the only thing is that they have more information to work with and less guessin to do | 07:33 |
| ShadowJK | it nukes my resolv.conf everytime I plug in my ethernet cable, for example :) | 07:33 |
| johnxx | just like dhclient? | 07:33 |
| ShadowJK | I dont use dhclient | 07:34 |
| johnxx | did you ever think about excluding your eth0 from being picked up by nm? | 07:34 |
| ShadowJK | and when I did, I could tell it not to modify dns | 07:34 |
| nickar | disco_stu: we'll have to leave the conversation for another time, cause tomorrow is a very long day :S | 07:34 |
| nickar | but i'll return :D | 07:34 |
| nickar | regards disco_stu | 07:35 |
| ShadowJK | yeah, if I do that, the nm tells firefox "oh noes the intarwebs are dead!", and firefox flat refuses to even try | 07:35 |
| disco_stu | nickar: see ya | 07:35 |
| disco_stu | nickar: i'm here 24/7 | 07:35 |
| johnxx | which you can change in firefox... | 07:35 |
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| johnxx | anyways, my point is that it wasn't always great, but the devs seem to be committed to making it better | 07:36 |
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| ShadowJK | I actually have openvpn running in the background on tablet all the time. xchat and microb connect through it. icd just happily does its thing and connects (with static IP) to wlan APs in my house, completely seamless between APs thanks to static IP | 07:37 |
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| ShadowJK | if I go for a drive, there's about a minute of lag, but thanks to the vpn setup, it looks like just that, lag, to xchat and microb | 07:38 |
| * johnx shrugs. nm supports static IPs | 07:38 | |
| ShadowJK | tcp sessions arent broken and continue working | 07:38 |
| johnx | and icd and nm have pretty similar behavior in terms of notifying apps | 07:39 |
| johnx | it's always the app's choice how to use that information | 07:39 |
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| ShadowJK | that reminds me... | 07:42 |
| ShadowJK | I still have to figure out how to stop NM&friends from blowing away my nfs mounts | 07:43 |
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| johnx | "&friends"? | 07:43 |
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| ShadowJK | well I'd hope it's not a core nm "feature" :) | 07:44 |
| johnx | you think portmap is getting restarted? | 07:45 |
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| ShadowJK | no whenever nm thinks there might not be a connection, it throws a dice and either throws a fit and runs ifconfig down on the device, and then unmounts all nfs and cifs shares (which is left hung because nm just down the interface), OR | 07:47 |
| ShadowJK | it decides to screw static and launch dhcp anyway | 07:47 |
| johnx | what distro are you on? | 07:48 |
| ShadowJK | it soon decides there IS a connection, and brings up the device, and if the nfs/cifs mounts are in fstab, it tries to mount them. It doesn't wait for the running umount attempt to complete, and it doesnt try cancel it, so any mouunt attempts will fail because they're still mounted at that point | 07:49 |
| ShadowJK | eventually retries on the umount kick in, and you're left with half your vfs :) | 07:50 |
| ShadowJK | fedora, lovely isn't it? | 07:50 |
| johnx | if you said suse I would have just stopped talking to you :) | 07:50 |
| johnx | when I get a chance I'll test but I feel like ubuntu doesn't behave the same, which I think means that's a fedora config of nm issue | 07:51 |
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| ShadowJK | when basic elementary things just cause grief, I cant imagine what a nightmare it would be to try make nm do harder stuff | 07:53 |
| ShadowJK | like managing mixed VPNs, ethernets, wlans and packet data | 07:53 |
| johnx | I just used it to tether bt to my phone then shared out over ad-hoc wifi | 07:53 |
| johnx | admittedly haven't touched VPNs | 07:54 |
| johnx | but I find the whole VPN thing kind of perverse anyways | 07:54 |
| ShadowJK | unfortunately sctp is used even less than ipv6 :( | 07:55 |
| ShadowJK | sctp has support for "hey, I'm now over here on this address and port" type messages, I think | 07:55 |
| johnx | hmm, I wonder if my hosted xen instance has an IPv6 IP... | 07:56 |
| johnx | holy crap yes :) | 07:56 |
| ShadowJK | and with the ipv6 utopia we're all of course supposed to have huge amount of addresses that we can take with us | 07:56 |
| johnx | yup, IP mapping to MAC address | 07:56 |
| johnx | it'll be a nice future once the countries hoarding all the IPv4 addresses finally run out :) | 07:57 |
| ShadowJK | but until then the next best thing is a server with static IP to vpn through, then it doesn't matter if your ISP sometimes gives you new IP every 2 minutes | 07:58 |
| johnx | why isn't that dyndns thing good enough? | 07:58 |
| ShadowJK | because if I'm trying to stream a youtube clip and the IP changes, the connection to youtube is left dead | 07:59 |
| johnx | ah, bummer | 07:59 |
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| johnx | your ISP might actually suck worse than mine | 07:59 |
| ShadowJK | and then I have to manually seek to end, seek to start and other trickery to force it to reconnect | 07:59 |
| johnx | and that's kind of impressive | 07:59 |
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| ShadowJK | and hope nothing happens | 08:00 |
| ShadowJK | it varies, sometimes it stays up a week | 08:01 |
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| ShadowJK | sometimes it's down hours, sometimes it goes up and down every minute | 08:01 |
| johnx | I basically keep the same IP until I have to reset the cable modem | 08:01 |
| ShadowJK | but atleast it's faster than edge when it works | 08:01 |
| johnx | but someplace on the other side has an 80% of failing to route packets during peak hours | 08:02 |
| johnx | for minutes at a time | 08:02 |
| ShadowJK | the vpn router on my lan automatically falls over to edge when the wimax goes down, keeping tcp sessions intact :-) | 08:02 |
| johnx | out in the middle of nowhere? | 08:03 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 08:04 |
| ShadowJK | next year the fibre co-op is supposed to lay down fibre here though | 08:04 |
| johnx | very cool | 08:05 |
| johnx | you'll probably have it before me | 08:05 |
| johnx | back in a sec. I want to see if nm interferes with nfs mounts here | 08:05 |
| johnx | I've become curious | 08:05 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm pessimistic, but then I also was a naysayer and doomed the project to total failure and told them they're lunatics | 08:05 |
| ShadowJK | and was proved wrong when they started construction last year :/ | 08:06 |
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| johnx | ShadowJK, now, I'm not trying to badmouth Fedora, but I think your nm problems might stem from their configuration | 08:09 |
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| ShadowJK | wouldn't surprise me | 08:10 |
| ShadowJK | there was big nm flamewar on fedora bugzilla | 08:11 |
| ShadowJK | ...started by Linus Torvalds coincidentally | 08:11 |
| ShadowJK | for many of the same reasons I rant :) | 08:11 |
| johnx | yeah, nm is purposefully designed to be flexible in how it fits into a distro | 08:12 |
| johnx | so that can make a big difference | 08:12 |
| johnx | (also it's full of bugs) | 08:12 |
| johnx | :) | 08:12 |
| ShadowJK | it doesnt help that the redhat people seem to live on an alien planet :/ | 08:14 |
| johnx | yeah, canonical kind of has it's @$$ on the line with every release in terms of trying to sell it to dell, hp, et al | 08:15 |
| johnx | and there have been ubuntu releases with entirely b0ken nm setups of course | 08:15 |
| johnx | but it *seems* better for *me* recently, so I'll go with cautious optimism | 08:16 |
| johnx | especially given that their aren't good alternatives | 08:16 |
| ShadowJK | I bet if nm had a bug where it spawned 5000 copies of itself, the reply to the bugreport whining about sluggishness would probably be "I don't notice a thing on my 8000cpu power machine. WORKSFORME" | 08:16 |
| johnx | maybe so, but I think canonical will now end up having to make it play nice on ARM machines, sooo, again: hopeful, yet cautious :) | 08:17 |
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| johnx | rm_you, poke | 08:38 |
| rm_you | johnx: pong | 08:39 |
| rm_you | oh, anyone here who spricht Deutsch as a native language want to read like 100 words of a horrible essay for my german201 class and tell me how bad it is? :P | 08:40 |
| johnx | nyet | 08:40 |
| rm_you | lol | 08:40 |
| AStorm | nopes, not native here. | 08:40 |
| AStorm | :) | 08:40 |
| rm_you | lol | 08:41 |
| rm_you | do you speak german well tho? :P | 08:43 |
| rm_you | johnx: any hope of making it to amsterdam? >_> | 08:44 |
| johnx | dunno | 08:44 |
| rm_you | methinks you waited a really long time to apply... i am semi worried | 08:44 |
| johnx | have all the people with sponsorship already been accepted? | 08:44 |
| rm_you | not sure | 08:44 |
| rm_you | *some* have | 08:44 |
| rm_you | I was | 08:44 |
| Macer | hm | 08:45 |
| rm_you | but i read something on the homepage about them having like 16 people who submitted topics for talks really near the deadline and only having a few spaces | 08:45 |
| rm_you | were you one of those? i remember you mentioned something along those lines | 08:45 |
| johnx | well, I submitted on the 8th | 08:45 |
| rm_you | hrm | 08:46 |
| johnx | dunno, dunno | 08:46 |
| rm_you | O_o | 08:46 |
| rm_you | well, i'm keeping my fingers crossed for you | 08:46 |
| rm_you | would be nice to see you there :P | 08:46 |
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| johnx | yeah, it really would | 08:48 |
| johnx | I'd be thrilled, and this time I think I have some cool stuff to show off | 08:48 |
| johnx | but if it's not to be, then I won't get too worked up about it | 08:48 |
| rm_you | Yeah.. | 08:49 |
| rm_you | i'm poking pretty hard at ABL for fremantle now <_< | 08:49 |
| rm_you | it's being a bit%# | 08:49 |
| johnx | and I'm working on my builder for mer/ppc | 08:49 |
| rm_you | but hopefully i'll have it functional if not stable by the summit | 08:50 |
| johnx | and will work on some mer/n800 once that's building | 08:50 |
| rm_you | yeah i wonder if Mer/n900 will be feasible | 08:50 |
| johnx | yes | 08:50 |
| johnx | more feasible than on the n8x0 for sure | 08:50 |
| johnx | harder to lure people on to it though ;) | 08:51 |
| rm_you | would be neat if you could get it to actually make calls :P | 08:51 |
| rm_you | yeah, kinda need your cellphone to be functional | 08:51 |
| johnx | well, if the modem is handled at a low enough level that you can just ATDT18005551212 | 08:51 |
| rm_you | where do i know that number from? | 08:51 |
| johnx | 555 is the "TV" prefix for fake numbers | 08:52 |
| rm_you | tv/movie? or is it just a common enough "fake number" | 08:52 |
| rm_you | yeah but also 1212 | 08:52 |
| johnx | but I think 555-1212 is some kind of information | 08:52 |
| johnx | might have been the first acceptable "fake" number | 08:52 |
| rm_you | ah yeah | 08:52 |
| johnx | anyways, then it's just a question of hooking sound up sound to someplace | 08:52 |
| rm_you | directory assistance | 08:52 |
| rm_you | In the North American Numbering Plan (covering Canada and the United States), directory assistance may be contacted by dialing 4-1-1 (one of the N11 codes) or to get a listing in a remote or non-local area code, directory assistance is available at 1-area code-555-1212. | 08:53 |
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| AStorm | rm_you: only moderately good with German | 09:00 |
| rm_you | heh | 09:00 |
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| rm_you | johnx: yeah i tried that with my phone in linux when using it as a modem and had no luck, but i suppose that's prolly not designed to work over the serial or whatever connection i had running | 09:05 |
| johnx | yeah | 09:05 |
| rm_you | i could call people but they wouldn't even have the option to answer, it was loltastic | 09:05 |
| johnx | this would only work if that's expressly the way it was designed | 09:06 |
| johnx | anyways, I do have a fallback phone for now, and any month now I'll take delivery of a *different* omap3 device ;) | 09:06 |
| johnx | so that might be where my mer work gets concentrated on for a while | 09:06 |
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| rm_you | heh | 09:15 |
| rm_you | woo omap3 | 09:15 |
| rm_you | i just hope they do a developer program | 09:15 |
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| rm_you | so i can afford the new one :P | 09:15 |
| rm_you | bbl, sleep | 09:16 |
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| jaem | evening folks | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | evening jaem | 09:44 |
| * jaem is in a conundrum | 09:44 | |
| jaem | I'm still trying to figure out some way for lefties to right-click in my Einstein port, without being horribly unusable | 09:45 |
| jaem | and Nokia really didn't take lefties into account when making the tablets | 09:45 |
| jaem | any keyboard-based modifier will work on two of the tablet models at most | 09:46 |
| lcuk | why cant lefties right click | 09:46 |
| lcuk | mornin Stskeeps \o | 09:46 |
| jaem | lcuk: SDL app | 09:47 |
| lcuk | whats that gotta do with anythin? | 09:47 |
| jaem | well | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | morning lcuk | 09:47 |
| jaem | adding libgtkstylus-like functionality would be bad, because there's a rather small target area for some of the clicks | 09:47 |
| jaem | also, it would be a bit annoying | 09:47 |
| jaem | left-click==flip card, right-click==discard card | 09:48 |
| lcuk | but surely thats the same for righties as wel | 09:48 |
| jaem | well | 09:48 |
| jaem | right now, I'm using Fullscreen as a modifier | 09:48 |
| jaem | but that only works for right-handed people, if I assume that not everyone has X Rotation support installed | 09:48 |
| lcuk | that only works for people who have keyboard closed too | 09:49 |
| jaem | and there is no key common to all the tablets that would work for either | 09:49 |
| lcuk | and people with a fullscreen key | 09:49 |
| jaem | yes | 09:49 |
| jaem | exactly | 09:49 |
| jaem | shift would work... but only on the N810 | 09:49 |
| jaem | on the N770, there's nothing that works at all | 09:49 |
| lcuk | but like i say, why is that "leftie" bad | 09:49 |
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| lcuk | and not just the fact you found a solution for a specific device | 09:49 |
| jaem | because they can't activate a modifier key with the hand that isn't holding the stylus | 09:49 |
| jaem | I'm not saying it's my fault - I'm just not happy with it as-is | 09:50 |
| jaem | and at least one person had specifically complained about that | 09:50 |
| jaem | so... keyboard-based modifiers are out | 09:50 |
| lcuk | there are many ways to get round left/right clicks | 09:50 |
| jaem | tap-and-hold is awkward | 09:50 |
| lcuk | so avoid that completely | 09:51 |
| jaem | what are you suggesting? | 09:51 |
| lcuk | i dunno because i dont know the app | 09:51 |
| lcuk | but most of the time finding a "tap once does one thing, tap again inverts it" seems to work | 09:52 |
| jaem | lcuk: http://games.flowix.com/en/einstein.jpg | 09:52 |
| jaem | that's the original version | 09:52 |
| jaem | I'm still fiddling with the UI on the Maemo port | 09:52 |
| lcuk | dont these sorts of games do flipping on clicking and automatically then make the combinations "glow" | 09:53 |
| jaem | but essentially, as you work out the clues (right hand side and bottom), you can flip up a card (top-left area), or hide it (it's a process-of-elimination style game, sort of like sudoko on steroids) | 09:53 |
| jaem | sudoku* | 09:54 |
| lcuk | and when you click on a glowing bit it is removed | 09:54 |
| jaem | I'm not following you... | 09:54 |
| jaem | you flip up a card if you know it's the right one for the cell | 09:54 |
| jaem | you hide it if you know it isn't | 09:54 |
| jaem | just to keep things straight | 09:55 |
| lcuk | the screenshot doesnt help either, if its complex the interaction wont be comfortable no matter what | 09:55 |
| jaem | it's a bit hard to explain without you having tried it | 09:55 |
| * lcuk nods | 09:55 | |
| jaem | hmm | 09:55 |
| * jaem just had a thought | 09:55 | |
| johnx | what about something in that title area that if you tap inside it once, your next tap is turned into a right click | 09:56 |
| jaem | johnx: that was suggested | 09:56 |
| jaem | but I don't like modes | 09:56 |
| jaem | it wouldn't be that bad in this game | 09:56 |
| jaem | but still... | 09:56 |
| johnx | yeah, it's a pain...but you don't have many options | 09:57 |
| jaem | the thought I just had would be to flip that around - rather than a button toggling actions, how about the user taps a card to select it, and then chooses an action with one of two buttons? | 09:57 |
| johnx | or do that and fullscreen button and shift button | 09:57 |
| johnx | and hope your lefty has an n810 :) | 09:57 |
| jaem | it's essentially the same, but it avoids modes | 09:57 |
| johnx | avoids modes, but makes every tap into two taps | 09:57 |
| jaem | yes... | 09:58 |
| jaem | instead of only some of them | 09:58 |
| johnx | though I guess it's kind of a slow paced game? | 09:58 |
| * jaem nods | 09:58 | |
| jaem | as I said... "sudoku on steroids" | 09:58 |
| johnx | then yeah, that might be your solution :) | 09:58 |
| jaem | most of the time is spent thinking | 09:58 |
| jaem | yeah, I think so | 09:58 |
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| johnx | I've never managed to make myself play sudoku. all I ever see when looking at it is: I could write a general solver in like 10 lines | 09:59 |
| lcuk | hopefully that is a normal state of mind | 09:59 |
| jaem | lcuk: for some :P | 09:59 |
| jaem | johnx: well, you could for this, too, but for a human, it's a bit trickier to work through | 09:59 |
| johnx | this at least looks kind of interesting | 10:00 |
| jaem | still algorithmic, but hard enough that you can enjoy working it out | 10:00 |
| lcuk | could einstein humself use this game> | 10:00 |
| johnx | but sudoku just looks like math homework | 10:00 |
| jaem | johnx: heh... yeah, I'm not really a fan of sudoku | 10:00 |
| jaem | lcuk: supposedly he thought it up, and make some claims as to IQ points and some such | 10:00 |
| jaem | I'm not buying it | 10:00 |
| johnx | I want to see competitive regular expressions | 10:00 |
| jaem | but it's still interesting | 10:00 |
| johnx | now that'd be a great network game | 10:01 |
| lcuk | but hes left handed | 10:01 |
| lcuk | hahaha johnx | 10:01 |
| jaem | lcuk: the computers of his day took both hands to operate anyway :P | 10:01 |
| lcuk | johnx, did you see the jamming session with liqflow at onedotzero with jaffa jussi crashanddie_ and i? | 10:01 |
| johnx | nope, got a video? | 10:02 |
| lcuk | actually.. | 10:02 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 | 10:02 |
| lcuk | jaem, yeah ofc | 10:02 |
| lcuk | mind you, an abacus is available in handheld models | 10:02 |
| johnx | wow O_o | 10:03 |
| lcuk | oh yeahhhhh :D we had lots of fun | 10:03 |
| jaem | neat | 10:04 |
| lcuk | that came out of me noticing on the train the flow pulsated as the train went over the sleepers | 10:04 |
| lcuk | jamming in the greenroom was fun | 10:04 |
| lcuk | and i got to see calendar and that flow on the projected display | 10:04 |
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| * lcuk had lots of fun and met loads of great people | 10:05 | |
| johnx | so it responds to the music and the mic input simultaneously? | 10:05 |
| lcuk | when i have 5 minutes ill put together a full rundown of my time :) | 10:05 |
| lcuk | thats responding to the drumming on the desk | 10:05 |
| lcuk | its technically not touching the music | 10:05 |
| johnx | ah | 10:05 |
| johnx | also, lining them up like that really adds to the effect | 10:06 |
| lcuk | yeah theres some really cool ideas coming out of it | 10:07 |
| johnx | it's too bad they don't have 2x 3axis accelerometers | 10:07 |
| johnx | they'd be able to get absolute spacial position out of that ... | 10:07 |
| jaem | johnx: too bad it doesn't have a gyro :) | 10:07 |
| jaem | even more fun | 10:07 |
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| jaem | gah... is there any sane way to install openssh-server into the Diablo SDK VMware image? | 10:08 |
| jaem | oh wait a minute | 10:08 |
| jaem | maybe I won't, anyway... the image is from *before* they got that little SSH bug worked out ;) | 10:09 |
| lcuk | jaem, mmm | 10:09 |
| jaem | johnx: on a related aside, these are neat: http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17270 | 10:10 |
| jaem | if I had the means to figure out how their calibrated, I would be all over that :P | 10:11 |
| jaem | they're* | 10:11 |
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| * jaem wishes his windows would close | 10:28 | |
| jaem | ...oh the joys of living in uni residence | 10:28 |
| johnx | must suck in the winter | 10:28 |
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| johnx | rm_you, go back to bed | 10:28 |
| jaem | johnx: no, this was just broken when I moved in :P | 10:29 |
| jaem | like our oven | 10:29 |
| jaem | and the holes in the walls | 10:29 |
| johnx | I didn't even have an oven in my last apartment :P | 10:29 |
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| jaem | heh | 10:29 |
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| jaem | well, at least the carpets were well cleaned | 10:29 |
| jaem | that was the only part that was.... | 10:30 |
| jaem | heh | 10:30 |
| johnx | well, it's the only part you have to walk on, so that's a start | 10:30 |
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| jaem | my roommate and I were trying to set up a triple-WAN router for our dorm yesterday, but PFSense (the router software) was being stupid | 10:30 |
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| jaem | which is a shame, because everyone needs three broadband connections, right? | 10:31 |
| johnx | heh. uni: crappy living conditions, great internet | 10:32 |
| johnx | later you'll be nostalgic for the inet connection, and totally forget about the living conditions :P | 10:32 |
| jaem | johnx: well... | 10:32 |
| jaem | actually | 10:32 |
| jaem | the Internet kind of fails | 10:32 |
| jaem | they were on a 7-year contract with one ISP | 10:33 |
| jaem | and it was stupid slow (think dial-up at peak times), and usually went down for a week around exam time | 10:33 |
| johnx | ha | 10:33 |
| johnx | sounds like a pretty mean joke | 10:34 |
| jaem | they also told us we were crazy when we spotted an arp-spoofing attack on the network | 10:34 |
| lardman | Anyone know where Mr Klapper is these days? | 10:34 |
| jaem | and then, three weeks later when it took out their switches, they made a big deal about them discovering it :/ | 10:34 |
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| jaem | so some other company bought out the contract in my second year | 10:35 |
| jaem | and they're decent, although it's still not reliable | 10:35 |
| jaem | but now the problem is that they charge 1/3 the price, for a good speed, but low data cap | 10:35 |
| jaem | residence charges us the original price, and takes 2/3 off the top | 10:36 |
| jaem | meaning that to get a decent amount of data, we have to pay $60/month | 10:36 |
| jaem | which is equivalent to getting a second, faster line from the local cable company | 10:36 |
| lardman | is this in uni accommodation? | 10:36 |
| jaem | on top of the mandatory uni line | 10:36 |
| jaem | yeah | 10:36 |
| jaem | and we have to pay for it whether we use it or not | 10:36 |
| lardman | hmm, free at Bath, though no voip/p2p allowed | 10:37 |
| jaem | well, these guys are decent in that regard | 10:37 |
| jaem | although I think it's more due to a lack of ability/resources to monitor our usage | 10:37 |
| johnx | that describes the relationship between me and my cell phone carrier pretty well :> | 10:38 |
| jaem | well, the problem is that the ISP is fulfilling their side of things as agreed (although higher reliability would be good) | 10:38 |
| jaem | the university is ripping us off | 10:39 |
| johnx | that's what unis do | 10:39 |
| jaem | luckily, the ISP has decided to be nice, and change the hard cap to a "fair use" policy | 10:39 |
| lardman | they used to do it with phones in the old days, now it;s moved onto internet connections | 10:39 |
| jaem | but that's completely out of the goodness of their heart - the school is paying them for 10GB/month | 10:39 |
| johnx | the original thing to gouge students on was books I think :) | 10:39 |
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| lardman | ah, but you don't have to buy them from the uni | 10:40 |
| lardman | probably papyrus scrolls & clay tablets in truth ;) | 10:40 |
| jaem | johnx: check out these guys: http://www.flatworldknowledge.com | 10:40 |
| johnx | lardman, kinda, some schools release book lists so close to class starts that you don't have time to get anything shipped | 10:40 |
| lcuk | lardman, \o | 10:40 |
| lardman | oh yeah, I remember those days | 10:40 |
| johnx | anyways, I'm out of school these days :) | 10:41 |
| lardman | well I still work at one | 10:41 |
| jaem | brb - I have to swap out my keyboard | 10:41 |
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| johnx | so the n900 has an IR transmitter, does it have a receiver as well? | 10:45 |
| lardman | does it? | 10:45 |
| johnx | yup | 10:45 |
| johnx | there's already an app out for use as a tv remote | 10:46 |
| lardman | oh, cool | 10:46 |
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| Petarlu | Hm, I found some evidence that the built-in media player is not open-source at all. Too bad. | 11:20 |
| johnx | that's correct | 11:20 |
| johnx | for open source maemo players, try youamp or if you're into shiny UIs check canola | 11:21 |
| lardman | the ui may not be, but the backend should be | 11:21 |
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| Petarlu | I want to understand how the internals of that media player work when it comes to the gstreamer components that are used. | 11:22 |
| Petarlu | For example, does it use "playbin" or does it create the decoding graph on it's own? | 11:22 |
| johnx | ah, well the gstreamer stuff is open source except for, IIRC, some of the gstreamer libs that interact with the DSP | 11:22 |
| lardman | Petarlu: that I don't know | 11:24 |
| Petarlu | Yes. From the web I could collect some facts that the ways to access the DSP has changed again and again over time. Now it seems to be gst-dsp that will drive the decoding, previously it seemed to be gst-openmax. | 11:24 |
| Petarlu | Now means in upcoming Maemo 5. | 11:24 |
| lardman | what device areg we talking about btw? | 11:24 |
| lardman | now is gst -> openmax for dsp video decoding | 11:25 |
| lardman | or gst only for audio | 11:25 |
| lardman | before was gst + gst dsp sinks for audio | 11:25 |
| lardman | in the very old days, 770, gst dsp sinks were also used for video decoding | 11:26 |
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| Petarlu | lardman: Thanks for the informations. I have a N800 and wanted to understand how hw accelartion is used. Then I read about the N900 and tried to find out if support has changed. So for N900/Maemo 5 gst-openmax will still be used? Or gst-dsp? Sorry for the newbie questions... | 11:27 |
| * slonopotamus never heard of gst-openmax | 11:28 | |
| johnx | well, given that gst-openmax isn't used yet, it'd be kind of surprising if they already had another new thing before even releasing gst-openmax | 11:28 |
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| johnx | slonopotamus, heard of openmax? | 11:28 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, neither | 11:29 |
| lardman | on the n800 only gst is used, no openmax, and gst sinks directly interface with dsp tasks | 11:29 |
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| lardman | on the n900, etc., gst will interface with gst-openmax, and the openmax structure will be used on the dsp | 11:29 |
| johnx | http://www.khronos.org/openmax/ | 11:29 |
| L0cutus | re | 11:30 |
| florian | good morning | 11:30 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, one more wrapper? | 11:31 |
| Petarlu | johnx: Yes, this is thought as well, because then the proprietary TI DSP stuff can be hidden behind gst-openmax interface nicely. But then I found gst-dsp, which says to "Texas Instruments provides DSP algorithms for the OMAP 3 platform used in a number of devices like beagleboard and rx51 (Maemo 5).This project aims to provide GStreamer elements to take advantage of those algorithms. The list includes video/image decoders and encoders. Unlike other similar | 11:31 |
| Petarlu | johnx: Now I'm confused... | 11:31 |
| bilboed-pi | with gst-dsp... you bypass the openmax API | 11:32 |
| bilboed-pi | ==> less overhead | 11:32 |
| lardman | hmm, interesting | 11:32 |
| lardman | I don't know about those | 11:32 |
| lardman | as you say removes the middleman, presumably there was some reason Nokia were planning on using openmax | 11:32 |
| lardman | I've not looked at the Fremantle DSP stuff yet I'm afraid. What I said before was the planned implementation | 11:33 |
| lardman | or at least what we were told was planned :) | 11:33 |
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| Petarlu | lardman: Hehe. When using gst-openmax, things are split nicely I guess. OpenMAX components can be implemented by TI or whoever and gst-openmax only used generic OpenMAX stuff. With gst-dsp, you are close to the DSP, but depend on the firmware I guess. That means if TI updates the DSP code, you have to update gst-dsp perhaps. This will not happen with gst-openmax. | 11:35 |
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| lardman | yeah | 11:35 |
| lardman | though the DSP-side of openmax would still need updating | 11:35 |
| bilboed-pi | openmax tries to be an abstraction layer like GStreamer. The difference is that... well... the API is just a bunch of badly documented header files | 11:35 |
| lardman | also, from what I've read, the DSP task interface is probably fairly fixed | 11:35 |
| lardman | yeah | 11:36 |
| bilboed-pi | so it's not just about overhead | 11:36 |
| slonopotamus | Petarlu, that works if TI really provides dsp<->openmax stuff | 11:36 |
| lardman | no the overhead is probably pretty small once everything is setup in truth | 11:36 |
| bilboed-pi | *cough* | 11:36 |
| slonopotamus | just. one. more. wrapper. | 11:36 |
| lardman | bilboed-pi: big is it? | 11:37 |
| bilboed-pi | lardman, openmax starts extra threads... which you can't really control | 11:37 |
| lardman | sounds just like gst :D | 11:37 |
| bilboed-pi | no, in gst you can control them | 11:37 |
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| johnx | wow...openmax sounded really cool when it was announced. that's a shame :/ | 11:37 |
| johnx | any comments about the openness of the gst-dsp stuff? | 11:38 |
| bilboed-pi | oh, and also... that's only one part of openmax... there's 3 (4?) layers to it... the only used one seems to be OpenMAX/IL ... which is the equivalent of the gstreamer plugin-side API | 11:38 |
| lardman | should be open, assuming it interfaces with the Ti designed task interface stuff | 11:38 |
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| johnx | lardman, I was wondering more about the tasks themselves | 11:39 |
| lardman | ah those are closed | 11:39 |
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| lardman | though the interfaces are documented, etc | 11:39 |
| Petarlu | bilboed-pi: Yes, IL (interface layer) is the one mainly used. The others are not so widespread. | 11:39 |
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| lardman | otherwise it's just recreating gst isn't it | 11:40 |
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| Petarlu | lardman: OpenMAX and gstreamer have the same audience. It would easier to rewrite the application using OpenMAX instead of gstreamer, if you really want to go for OpenMAX. | 11:41 |
| Petarlu | Instead of putting OpenMAX components into gstreamer components. My 2 cents... | 11:41 |
| lardman | well openmax reaches deeper doesn't it? closer to the hw? at least that was what I assumed as for the reason to use it | 11:42 |
| bilboed-pi | lardman, no, none of them do low-level. It's the *implementations* of the various plugins that do the low-level stuff | 11:44 |
| lardman | ah fair enough | 11:44 |
| Petarlu | lardman: Not necessarily. As you said, it's mainly described by the header files. The actual implementation can be ti-openmax or the "bellagio" implemention. It has components similar to gstreamer elements. The clock control is more expliciti with dedicated clock components. With gst-dsp, gstreamer and OpenMAX are fairly similar. But OpenMAX has the "advantage", that you can provide binary-only implementations more easily. | 11:44 |
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| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, excuse me ? | 11:44 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, there's binary-only gstreamer plugins out there | 11:45 |
| lardman | bbiab | 11:45 |
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| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, same thing for clock control | 11:45 |
| johnx | somehow when I read about openmax earlier, I was under the impression there were a whole bunch of binary plugins for it that were free for the taking and just waiting to be used | 11:45 |
| bilboed-pi | how different is it from the hundreds of available (open-source or not) gstreamer plugins ?? | 11:46 |
| johnx | I guess I got the impression that the openmax plugins were rather heavily optimized for the Cortex-A8 | 11:47 |
| bilboed-pi | the dsp code is | 11:47 |
| Petarlu | bilboed-p: Yes, I know. This is why I said "more easily". The interface is, let's say, more plain-C-like and probably easier to understand and use. | 11:48 |
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| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, ... easier to understand... maybe. Easier to use ... err... | 11:48 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, also... good luck writing a simple multi-format player with openmax only :) | 11:49 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, or a voip client | 11:49 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, or <multimedia-application-of-your-choice> | 11:49 |
| bilboed-pi | you'd have to rewrite a truckload of code every single time depending on what formats you want to support, what outputs, etc... | 11:49 |
| bilboed-pi | like... *joy* | 11:49 |
| Petarlu | bilboed-pi: I don't advocate for the one or the other. My main problem at the moment is to understand how gstreamer supports these DSP decoding approach. I mean, in theory, the DSP supports demultiplexing, decoding, post-processing and rendering. So in theory the data never leaves the DSP again. But using any component-based mulitmedia framework, the framework pretends that it moves the data around, but in reality it's always in the DSP (proprietary communica | 11:51 |
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| bilboed-pi | (end of your sentence went to /dev/null) | 11:51 |
| wazd | hello everyone | 11:51 |
| Petarlu | bilboed-pi: I agree with you that OpenMAX lacks all the format recognition stuff. | 11:51 |
| Petarlu | bilboed-pi: I mean, in theory, the DSP supports demultiplexing, decoding, post-processing and rendering. So in theory the data never leaves the DSP again. | 11:52 |
| bilboed-pi | yah, and ? | 11:52 |
| Petarlu | bilboed-pi: But using any component-based mulitmedia framework, the framework pretends that it moves the data around, but in reality it's always in the DSP (proprietary communication in OpenMAX). | 11:52 |
| bilboed-pi | sure | 11:52 |
| bilboed-pi | you still need to pass around some metadata (like ... timestamps). Kind of useful when you want to have accurate synchronous rendering | 11:53 |
| bilboed-pi | all data stays in dsp until the last element... and that element's sole task is to say at the right time "OK, FLIP, DISPLAY" | 11:53 |
| Petarlu | billboed-pi: Does gstreamer support this? I mean, having elements that will not output the actual data, but just metadata? | 11:54 |
| bilboed-pi | but basically... *you* don't have to care whether it's raw data in main memory or in GPU memory, open-gl textures, or memory on the dsp | 11:54 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, *YES* | 11:54 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, how do you think gst-dsp or gst-opengl works ? | 11:54 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, do you *seriously* think we shuffle data around between main memory and various components ??? You'd never be able to watch HD video on your computer | 11:54 |
| bilboed-pi | a case you use everyday when watching videos on a linux system : data is allocated downstream (by the video card) and returned to the decoder... which decodes straight into GPU memory | 11:55 |
| Petarlu | bilboed-pi: No, I was not thinking that, but I could not find out how it works. For gst-dsp I understand that the renderer (gst-omapfb) provides buffers to the decoder, which actually is the framebuffer directly. | 11:55 |
| bilboed-pi | and then the buffer just has a pointer to that video memory. When it reaches the sink, the only thing it has to do is at the right moment go "ok, display" | 11:55 |
| Petarlu | Perhaps I'm too focussed on embedded systems and SoCs. | 11:56 |
| bilboed-pi | yah :) remember : GStreamer is just a framework. We just provide a unified API (like for requesting buffers downstream) | 11:56 |
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| Petarlu | My problem is: assume that decoding and rendering is done by the GPU, internally. For an SoC, perhaps the CPU cannot access the memory used at all. | 12:01 |
| Petarlu | Then you insert a video postprocessing element and you have the problem that the CPU needs to manipulate the video data. | 12:02 |
| Petarlu | Or you want to support a codec that the GPU/SoC does not support. | 12:02 |
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| Petarlu | Ideally the SoC/DSP/whatever want to handle all the decoding internally. | 12:03 |
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| Petarlu | Hm, probably i'll go to #gst_ti and ask the guys what they think about it... | 12:07 |
| Petarlu | bilboed-pi, lardman, johnx: thanks for the discussion! | 12:07 |
| johnx | Petarlu, nice talking to you :) | 12:08 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, right, that's where caps negotiation comes into place. | 12:09 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, between the various elements | 12:09 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, if all elements between you dsp decoder and your dsp sink can handle the same caps (let's say "video/x-dsp")... then they won't be converted | 12:09 |
| bilboed-pi | Petarlu, if you put a postprocessing element that can't handle that format, you'll have to put converter elements in between (i.e. an element that can take "video/x-dsp" and output "video/x-raw-yuv" or the like) | 12:10 |
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| bilboed-pi | (that last element would just be downloading the memory from DSP ready-only memory to main memory) | 12:10 |
| bilboed-pi | and there's also some tricks to make sure your buffer won't be written to and, if an element wishes to write to it, can request a writable copy (the copy is up to your buffer implementation) | 12:11 |
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| Petarlu | bilboed-pi: That's interesting. Now I understand. But using stuff like "video/x-dsp" does not work well with existing application that use "playbin", or? | 12:13 |
| bilboed-pi | playbin2, yes | 12:13 |
| bilboed-pi | playbin doesn't have that good support for hw-only decoders and sinks) | 12:13 |
| bilboed-pi | playbin2 made it better (and uses less memory, and is smarter) | 12:13 |
| bilboed-pi | I'm pretty sure it's playbin2 which is now being used in Maemo5 | 12:14 |
| Petarlu | Playbin2, yes. Then I have to check playbin2 again. | 12:16 |
| AStorm | hey guys | 12:18 |
| AStorm | what's the ID of Nokia N900 GPS chipset? | 12:18 |
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| AStorm | heh, any idea? | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | check the kernel :P | 12:22 |
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| AStorm | Stskeeps: buy me N900 first | 12:25 |
| AStorm | why don't you just tell me? | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | because i don't know :P | 12:26 |
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| SpeedEvil1 | It's a TI binary blob thing | 12:28 |
| SpeedEvil1 | err | 12:28 |
| SpeedEvil1 | no - ignore that | 12:28 |
| SpeedEvil1 | that's correct for the 810 | 12:28 |
| SpeedEvil1 | I've just workn up | 12:28 |
| lardman | it probably is now too | 12:29 |
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| Stskeeps | afaik the chip speaks nmea now | 12:29 |
| AStorm | yes it does | 12:29 |
| AStorm | but still no info WHICH one it is. | 12:29 |
| AStorm | I'm trying to get that. | 12:29 |
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| lardman | We only worked out what the other one was from a disassembly of gspdriver | 12:31 |
| AStorm | huh | 12:32 |
| AStorm | I wonder why they're so secretive about it | 12:32 |
| AStorm | it's not like anyone will steal it from them | 12:32 |
| AStorm | or that we can't open the device and check | 12:32 |
| frals | btw, has anyone posted dmesg output yet or is that nda-material until release? :p | 12:32 |
| SpeedEvil | _all_ the device hardware is basically under NDA | 12:32 |
| AStorm | (there are better gps chips to steal) | 12:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | Yeah. | 12:33 |
| johnx | which is funny, because I sware quim told me I should run dmesg on the "dev" unit at danish weekend :) | 12:33 |
| SpeedEvil | GPS chips are quite easy | 12:33 |
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| johnx | and yet, easy to get wrong it seems | 12:33 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: not. | 12:33 |
| AStorm | unless that's a softgps | 12:33 |
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| AStorm | that's indeed easy | 12:34 |
| frals | someone should head over the flagship stores and get the dmesg output ;) | 12:34 |
| SpeedEvil | There is a wide variety from the really cheap ones that _everything_ is done on the CPU - to the fully cooked ones | 12:34 |
| AStorm | yes | 12:34 |
| AStorm | I guess this one will be more hardware | 12:34 |
| SpeedEvil | (everything = including correlation) | 12:34 |
| AStorm | since they dropped battery | 12:34 |
| * johnx wants his GPS chip cooked to a golden brown | 12:34 | |
| SpeedEvil | It's all a balance between price, volume, and ... | 12:34 |
| AStorm | and power use. | 12:34 |
| AStorm | :) | 12:34 |
| johnx | and what's available from your favorite vendor ;) | 12:34 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: included in '...' | 12:34 |
| AStorm | price is of no consideration here I think | 12:34 |
| AStorm | TI can handle the volume | 12:35 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: in N900 | 12:35 |
| AStorm | and likely N500 as well | 12:35 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: Assuming it's TI | 12:35 |
| AStorm | yes, otherwise they'd tell us what it is | 12:35 |
| AStorm | other companies aren't so draconian in their NDAs | 12:35 |
| AStorm | TI lawyers are really hard-ass | 12:35 |
| johnx | some are better, lots are worse | 12:35 |
| SpeedEvil | There is nothing in the NDA saying what it is. | 12:35 |
| SpeedEvil | about saying | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | just giving details - generally - that aren't public | 12:36 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: there is something I guess, or that info would be divulged. | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: _nothing_ about the hardware is being | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | almost | 12:36 |
| AStorm | and TI is known for extreme NDAs. | 12:36 |
| lardman | chances are it's the standard Ti fare for this age of chip | 12:36 |
| lardman | same was true of the N810's gps chipset | 12:36 |
| AStorm | yes | 12:36 |
| lardman | I don't know what that is mind you | 12:36 |
| kirma | OMAP3 is certainly offered with companion GPS chips from TI, and those companion chips even integrate other useful features in them, and also handle interference avoidance between subsystems | 12:38 |
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| lcuk | lardman, is it in pieces now? | 12:39 |
| kirma | all TI chips, based on what information is available, look like soft-gps | 12:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | There are several classes of GPS chip | 12:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | the simplest just digitise the GPS radio spectrum, and do nothing more | 12:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | The more complex ones do all the hard-real-time in hardware - and have a slowish serial link - but the CPU does all the work of determining the position | 12:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Then you've got fully cooked ones that you just apply power and recieve position | 12:42 |
| kirma | speedevil: this looks pretty interesting, and even that has "unnecessary" USB glue: http://www.gpscreations.com/Products_GPS1A.html | 12:43 |
| johnx | I can imagine the pinout on that last type: power goes here->[]->signal comes out here | 12:44 |
| aSIMULAtor | afternoon | 12:47 |
| aSIMULAtor | päivää whatever | 12:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | kirma: that's been available for sparkfun for 3? years | 12:50 |
| johnx | muahahaha....my autobuilder liiiives | 12:50 |
| Corsac | skynet? | 12:51 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: with several annoying passives typically, but more or less | 12:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | kirma: this is the first type - just a A/D - like a soundcard but higher freqs :) | 12:51 |
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| kirma | speedevil: ah, found it | 12:52 |
| kirma | the paradoxical thing is the price :/ | 12:52 |
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| lardman | has anyone tried the camera api on the Fremantle SDK? | 12:59 |
| lardman | The C code? | 12:59 |
| lardman | looks pretty much identical to the Diablo code | 12:59 |
| lardman | (not too unexpected that) | 12:59 |
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| Khertan | ARGGG lost 4 hours ... founding where our server at work where compromising | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: these are very low volume things - which boosts the price unforutnately | 13:04 |
| Khertan | a stupid phpmyadmin hole ! | 13:04 |
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| Khertan | again ! | 13:04 |
| lardman | cu all on Thursday | 13:04 |
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| Khertan | system($_GET(['c'])) ! | 13:05 |
| kirma | khertan: that's understandable, but sort of unfortunate... | 13:05 |
| Khertan | BURN THIS STUPID DEV ! | 13:05 |
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| MaceN8x0 | heh | 13:08 |
| MaceN8x0 | hello | 13:08 |
| MaceN8x0 | stupid ogg | 13:08 |
| * MaceN8x0 is starting to hate ogg | 13:09 | |
| slonopotamus | MaceN8x0, got printing working in mer yet? :) | 13:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | slonopotamus, lol. no | 13:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | i have been in maemo4 for a while | 13:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | got it working in gentoo? | 13:09 |
| slonopotamus | MaceN8x0, emerge cups happily works :P | 13:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | yeah but | 13:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | have you tried it in an app that is worthwhile? | 13:11 |
| slonopotamus | MaceN8x0, is evince worthwhile? | 13:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | no | 13:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | ;) | 13:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | im watching inuyasha | 13:13 |
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| MaceN8x0 | i should try out high def movies on this artigo | 13:13 |
| MaceN8x0 | i doubt the cpu has enough power | 13:14 |
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| wazd | http://nokia.taleo.net/careersection/10120/jobdetail.ftl Damn, I'm too young again | 13:19 |
| SpeedEvil | you can always apply | 13:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - unless you're young enough that you can't work the hours | 13:20 |
| wazd | SpeedEvil: well, 8-10 years of working in industry - When I was 11 I had no computer at all :D | 13:20 |
| wazd | And I have no degree in this sphere | 13:21 |
| wazd | cause we have no universities that can graduate in this sphere :D | 13:22 |
| johnx | "The job is no longer available." | 13:22 |
| johnx | that was fast | 13:22 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, sshh! that was a joke | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Applying if you realistically think you have the skills - supplying a CV as to why you can - is generally never bad. | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: immediately after wazd posted | 13:23 |
| wazd | johnx: I don't think they've found someone in like 5 days :D | 13:23 |
| t_s_o | kinda "fun" seeing apple faithfull using the tablet arguments as reasons why apple should not get involved with netbooks :P | 13:23 |
| lcuk | who *knows* the location of the summit, ie who has been there and walked around and has an idea of the layout | 13:23 |
| slonopotamus | wazd, could you post my cv link then so i get better-paid job immediately? :D | 13:23 |
| wazd | lcuk: google street view? :) | 13:24 |
| SpeedEvil | How are the smaller macbooks not netbooks? | 13:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Except for the price | 13:24 |
| lcuk | wazd, good idea but street view does not go inside locations | 13:24 |
| wazd | SpeedEvil: well, they are large and heavy :) | 13:24 |
| Khertan | Hum ... is there some place to report 0day security hole ? | 13:24 |
| Khertan | :) | 13:24 |
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| lcuk | Khertan, get in a queue. unfortunately the queue takes 3 days | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | there's a page on it yetah | 13:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's insane - I really want a duplicate of my Toshiba 3110CT. | 13:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Which - with a re-celled battery - got 8h battery life in around a kilo with a nice metal case. | 13:27 |
| SpeedEvil | But it was only PII/300 | 13:27 |
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| johnx | errr...does someone know if there's a maximum depth for recursive functions in bash? | 13:40 |
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| lcuk | johnx, oooer how deep do you need | 13:42 |
| lcuk | cos i see examples of recursive functions around | 13:42 |
| johnx | might be a couple hundred deep | 13:42 |
| lcuk | and is it a case of the stack limit | 13:42 |
| johnx | adding some tests to find out | 13:42 |
| lcuk | cripes | 13:42 |
| * zerojayPC yawns big/scratches random body parts. | 13:42 | |
| lcuk | what are you calculating? | 13:42 |
| johnx | it's a package auto builder | 13:43 |
| lcuk | nice | 13:43 |
| johnx | I'm used to scheme...so recursive seemed simplest :/ | 13:43 |
| lcuk | yeah, recursion is simple. | 13:43 |
| lcuk | see previous comment | 13:43 |
| lcuk | people seem to use it for recursive folder diving and stuff | 13:44 |
| lcuk | perhaps if you are having trouble, refactor slightly and remove the recursion from some parts of it | 13:44 |
| johnx | nah, I don't think it's the recursion | 13:45 |
| lcuk | lol | 13:45 |
| johnx | I just have to fully understand what I wrote :) | 13:45 |
| johnx | I just wrote a little test and let it get 2608 deep | 13:45 |
| lcuk | i know when i build parsers and compilers sometimes recursion has to give way to do whiles | 13:45 |
| lcuk | haha | 13:45 |
| lcuk | if you unrolled that code and printed it, wouldnt the entire thing travel round the world | 13:46 |
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| zeev | can one use skype to call SIP? | 13:51 |
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| Stskeeps | no, but you can use n8x0 sip support | 13:55 |
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| MaceN8x0 | blah | 13:56 |
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| MaceN8x0 | i should try out the ogg stuff on this thing | 13:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | even if ogg sucks | 13:56 |
| wazd | anyone has an example of good CV? :) | 13:56 |
| ccooke | wazd: define "good"? | 13:58 |
| ccooke | I've had some very positive results from mine, but... | 13:58 |
| zeev | does N900 supports internet connection sharing over bluetooth as stnadard feature? | 13:58 |
| glass | wazd: it should be one page, add some portfolio crap as extra if you wish | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | One page is good. | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | The content is more important than the style hopefully though. | 13:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | One page of highlights, then expand and add references in the latter pages. | 13:59 |
| wazd | ccooke: well, good = existing :D | 14:00 |
| johnx | zeenix, the people who know can't say | 14:00 |
| johnx | sorry :) I meant zeev | 14:00 |
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| ccooke | Mine's basically one page of keywords with small descriptions plus another page and a bit of history and background. I'll have to rewrite it when I update it for the last two years, though - it'll get too long. | 14:01 |
| millenomi | question! | 14:02 |
| millenomi | anyone with any experience with ObjC runtimes on Maemo? | 14:02 |
| * millenomi ducks and screams "aaa don't look at me like that" | 14:03 | |
| ccooke | millenomi: Well, I visited 280slides.com and checked that it'd work on the n810... | 14:05 |
| ccooke | (No, sorry) | 14:05 |
| millenomi | well, that's not a ObjC runtime :) | 14:05 |
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| ccooke | technically it is, almost. ObjJ is a complete port of ObjC to javascript. Quite an interesting idea, actually | 14:05 |
| millenomi | I know, but it's not source-compatible, so it's a little out of the way for my purposes for now. | 14:06 |
| millenomi | <--- has a large ObjC codebase for an app on That Other Phone. Looking to port it over. | 14:06 |
| millenomi | I'd prefer not to have to rewrite the 'portable' part of the thing. | 14:06 |
| Stskeeps | not sure if gcc 4.2 has it | 14:07 |
| ccooke | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/shownotes.php?release_id=239 | 14:07 |
| ccooke | Objective C has definitely been ported | 14:07 |
| millenomi | I was more worried about the runtime portion of the thing (GNUstep or Cocotron) | 14:08 |
| millenomi | to see if anyone ventured that way. | 14:08 |
| ccooke | The real difficulty will be hildonising, surely | 14:08 |
| millenomi | or if I have to be a pioneer and such. | 14:08 |
| millenomi | oh I don't plan on having the UI written in ObjC. | 14:08 |
| millenomi | just the model/engine/network stack thingie that powers the app. (http://infinite-labs.net/mover) | 14:09 |
| ccooke | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/gnustep/ - looks to be at least somewhat active. | 14:09 |
| ccooke | Cute. | 14:10 |
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| millenomi | another q: if I were to build a cross-compiler for Maemo on another platform, what platform should I target? any guide? | 14:15 |
| johnx | lcuk, tripped over a global variable | 14:15 |
| lcuk | ohno | 14:15 |
| millenomi | methinks I'll have to gut Scratchbox and learn how it works exactly before venturing in that territory >_< | 14:15 |
| johnx | make sure that gobjc isn't already included before you get too far :) | 14:16 |
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| johnx | but hmm, adding to the maemo sdk toolchain... | 14:16 |
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| Stskeeps | sb2 is probably closer to your sanity | 14:17 |
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| millenomi | will look, thanks :) | 14:22 |
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| millenomi | mmm, looks like GNUstep is a no-go -- they're stuck with the previous version of the language. | 14:29 |
| millenomi | I'll have to go with Cocotron, which means building my own cross-compiler >_< | 14:29 |
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| lbt | millenomi: I just setup an SDK for Mer which builds the Ubuntu toolchain - it wouldn't be hard to tack on objc | 14:31 |
| millenomi | the problem is that the GNU objc stuff is stuck to 2004, language-wise, as far as I can see. | 14:31 |
| millenomi | cocotron.org has patches that correspond to the newer version of the language, but I still have to see how they apply them to GCC | 14:31 |
| lbt | ok, nm then | 14:32 |
| lbt | my objective is to use the vanilla upstream compiler code as a cross- | 14:32 |
| lbt | and of course this is all for Mer/OBS not fremantle | 14:33 |
| lcuk | millenomi, having objc gives you the language, but what about the support libraries and OS specific deps - how are they ahndled (it might be included but i dunno) | 14:33 |
| lcuk | hey david \o | 14:33 |
| millenomi | Cocotron also has the full implementation of Foundation that I need, it seems. | 14:34 |
| zeev | does N810 supports internet connection sharing over bluetooth as stnadard feature? | 14:34 |
| millenomi | but it's Windows-geared. | 14:34 |
| lbt | hi garry | 14:34 |
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| lbt | good weekenddotzero | 14:34 |
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| lcuk | amazing onedotzero :) | 14:35 |
| * lbt renames lcuk lcuk.0 | 14:35 | |
| lcuk | seeing so many people from so many fields come together and play their part in a collaborative experience was amazing | 14:35 |
| lcuk | much higher paced than random dev | 14:35 |
| lcuk | was great to actually have principle deadline and goals/objectives | 14:35 |
| lbt | would love to have known about it beforehand | 14:36 |
| ccooke | (so is there a twodotzero next year?) | 14:36 |
| mgedmin | zeev: if by that you mean getting your laptop online through a n810's bluetooth 3g/edge/gprs connection, then no | 14:36 |
| mgedmin | I'm sure it's possible, though | 14:36 |
| lcuk | and working with karsten especially on his massive exhibit was soooooooooooo cool | 14:36 |
| mgedmin | with some 3rd party packages | 14:36 |
| mgedmin | I've never done that | 14:36 |
| lcuk | ccooke, the onedotzero festival is a collaborative get together of digital media artists and it travels around the world | 14:37 |
| lcuk | starting in london it visits numerous cities following a theme | 14:37 |
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| lcuk | this year, its adventures in motion, and the identity installation (which is controlled by a bespoke app written in liqbase on the n900) is going to evolve over the year | 14:38 |
| lcuk | lbt, i was asked to keep it quiet im afraid | 14:38 |
| lcuk | i wanted it on maemo.org right at the start | 14:39 |
| lcuk | to allow greater collaboration and input | 14:39 |
| lbt | lcuk: yeah, I heard :) | 14:39 |
| ccooke | lcuk: Interesting. | 14:39 |
| lcuk | there is some media coverage of the event and installation | 14:40 |
| ccooke | I've (naturally) heard about the identity installation) | 14:40 |
| lcuk | i hadnt! | 14:41 |
| lcuk | the hardware on the n900 is dreamy :$ | 14:41 |
| * ccooke grins | 14:42 | |
| lcuk | it made for a really responsive fast controller - people were making it roll and tumble and zoom and were pretending to be topguns and all sorts | 14:42 |
| ccooke | fun | 14:42 |
| lcuk | karsten is hopefully going to release his identity app for desktop machines soon | 14:42 |
| lcuk | which allows users at home to play and take part | 14:42 |
| lcuk | and obviously the onedotzero app on maemo.org should control it too | 14:42 |
| lcuk | was great to meet a load of folks, especially qwerty | 14:43 |
| lcuk | he hasnt been able to get to any other maemo events :) | 14:43 |
| lcuk | good that something happened so close | 14:43 |
| lcuk | this was a different type of collaboration (again using hte n900) | 14:44 |
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| lcuk | we were sat in a bar drumming on a table whilst my liqflow was running | 14:44 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 | 14:44 |
| lcuk | (thats myself jaffa crashanddie jussim) | 14:45 |
| lcuk | lbt, the proto looks familiar doesnt it :$ | 14:45 |
| ccooke | lcuk: huh. That's nice! | 14:46 |
| lcuk | ccooke, it came about after i noticed on the train | 14:46 |
| lbt | lcuk: where've I seen one of those before? | 14:46 |
| Corsac | the top one is a proto n900? | 14:46 |
| lcuk | well, first - liqflow uses accelerometer data to let the particles fall like rain, and it also uses it in a rumble/shake capacity | 14:47 |
| lcuk | lol lbt | 14:47 |
| lcuk | when i was on the train going to london i noticed as i went over the track connections it pulsed | 14:47 |
| lcuk | and i showed em, and we started drumming on the desk :D and had a great time playing | 14:48 |
| lcuk | Corsac, :$ yeah | 14:48 |
| Corsac | it looks nice | 14:48 |
| X-Fade | Corsac: development device. | 14:48 |
| Corsac | a bit rugged, thinkpad like | 14:48 |
| Corsac | :p | 14:48 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, indeed :) | 14:48 |
| X-Fade | Basically hardware in a box ;) | 14:48 |
| lcuk | lots of development has occured on it | 14:48 |
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| wazd | yeah, remote controlling is such an innovative feature, it relases the whole firepower on n900 hardware for sure :D | 14:54 |
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| crashanddie | I'm coming to the Summit, it would seem | 15:28 |
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| crashanddie | so what exactly happens if I show up while I'm technically on the waiting list? | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | good for you | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | what waiting list? :) | 15:30 |
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| andre810 | crashanddie, there is no waiting list. either you registered for the summit, or you didn't | 15:32 |
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| crashanddie | andre810: pretty sure the web page I'm looking at says "Waiting list" | 15:33 |
| timeless_mbp | url? | 15:33 |
| andre810 | url. | 15:33 |
| timeless_mbp | you sure it isn't for sponsorship? | 15:33 |
| crashanddie | http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit_2009_waiting_list/ | 15:34 |
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| crashanddie | oh, it says it on the page "We are opening a waiting list to allow people keeping registering. Once we agree on the hard limit of participants of the Summit, those in the waiting list will be accepted by strict order of registration." | 15:34 |
| andre810 | aha... didnt know that | 15:35 |
| crashanddie | sod it, anyway, I'm big, nobody will try to stop me from getting in | 15:35 |
| * ccooke notes that some of the people on the waiting list have rather more right to be there than I do :-/ | 15:35 | |
| * timeless_mbp puzzles | 15:35 | |
| crashanddie | ccooke: you being who on that list? | 15:35 |
| timeless_mbp | the waiting list has 7 items and says it's for people after 300 | 15:36 |
| ccooke | crashanddie: not on that list. | 15:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | the maemo summit page says there are 312 registrants | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp | 312 = 300 + 7, right? | 15:36 |
| crashanddie | sure | 15:36 |
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| ccooke | It seems likely that Nokia will find space for more people - how many is the question. | 15:38 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm pretty sure the space itself will have physical limitations | 15:38 |
| keesj | hi | 15:38 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'd imagine a couple of people can be squeezed in | 15:38 |
| crashanddie | email fail | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | If you requested sponsorhip, the request is pending for approval | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | sponsorhip, the coolest way to be sponsored! | 15:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: a coworker noted the use of the word "ment" in a document this morning | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | personally, my favorite of the day is: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/pc%20suite%20sync.png | 15:39 |
| Corsac | aha | 15:40 |
| Corsac | they didn't manage to decide? | 15:40 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: he ment to do well :P | 15:40 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'm not sure sponsorhip beats micorophone and mirophone | 15:40 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: my coworker confirmed my guess that it's a "4 letter word" (i.e. a curse) | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: it's a localized localisation of well brother. something? | 15:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh, "a mess", that's it! :) | 15:42 |
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| Corsac | :p | 15:42 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: still, I haven't seen anything worse than the dutch Katholiek Universiteit Tilburg | 15:42 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: which logo spelt out "KUT" on the business cards | 15:42 |
| crashanddie | I'll let you find out what kut means in dutch :) | 15:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | ooh, i guessed right! | 15:43 |
| Corsac | well, my CS diploma is called "Diplome d'Ingenieur en Informatique et Communications". I let you imagine how it's pronunced in english. | 15:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | Corsac: we used to have a TV production group by that sound | 15:43 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnhHnZfUzOo | 15:44 |
| timeless_mbp | around :28 is the audible set i remember as a child | 15:44 |
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| crashanddie | Corsac: Informatique et Reseau pour l'Industrie et les Services techniques. IRIS, pretty cool to be honest. You have no idea how many people we fooled in saying we did eye-related computer science | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | and yes, they produced children's television programming :) | 15:45 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRxZ-uvyog0 | 15:45 |
| * timeless_mbp grinds teeth | 15:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | at least dic used animated violence | 15:47 |
| timeless_mbp | (is there anyone here who hasn't seen inspector gadget?) | 15:47 |
| crashanddie | GO GO GADGET | 15:47 |
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| keesj | my kid doens't like it | 15:48 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: by the looks of it (and the conf calls I'm in atm), I won't be in the Ukraine this week, sorry bro | 15:48 |
| timeless_mbp | :( | 15:48 |
| timeless_mbp | keesj: do you remember the alternative parsing of the phrase? | 15:48 |
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| crashanddie | doens't? | 15:49 |
| crashanddie | AndrewFBlack: you really ought to brush up your candidacy email | 15:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://images.google.com/images?q=inspect+her+gadget&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4 | 15:52 |
| Corsac | sfw? | 15:53 |
| Corsac | not sure | 15:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | safesearch:strict | 15:53 |
| timeless_mbp | i.e. "it should be safe" | 15:53 |
| Myrtti | Corsac: on my scale it goes to "why do I bother with this channel" end | 15:54 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway... DIC as a production house is fairly old | 15:55 |
| * RST38h wonders if cartoon porn is regulated in the US | 15:56 | |
| Corsac | I'd assume so | 15:56 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxHr3G2wGow around 3:40 | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Some parts regulate it insanely. | 15:57 |
| RST38h | Japan apparently does not... | 15:57 |
| Corsac | depends if there's tentacles involved | 15:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24767202-2,00.html | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | forex | 15:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | insane | 15:57 |
| RST38h | They are? | 15:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: not really | 15:59 |
| timeless_mbp | if you take two people and then draw the act into the picture | 16:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | but they didn't really do it, should you be able to say "it wasn't real, so it's ok"? | 16:00 |
| RST38h | Corsac: One can argue that anything with tentacles should be considered an expression of religious freedom | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. That is a realistic representation. | 16:00 |
| RST38h | Corsac: By the Cthulhu adepts | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | one is free to argue anything, but one is likely to lose | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | This is a representation of two completely fictional chars. | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: well, personally, i'd go after them for copyright / trademark abuse | 16:01 |
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| timeless_mbp | because the owners of the copyright would not want their characters depicted in that manner | 16:01 |
| SpeedEvil | That wouldn't actually generally work either - due to the parody defence. | 16:01 |
| RST38h | Depends if this can be called a parody | 16:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Parody is a legitimate use of copyrighted works - in many countries at least. True. | 16:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: so, ... | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | one of the two should work | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway | 16:02 |
| RST38h | They will bring in some egghead expert and he will call it not a parody, case closed | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | put it this way, i don't approve of certain middle eastern groups taking Mickey Mouse and using him to endorse Murder | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S995NCeaUg | 16:03 |
| RST38h | Ehehe, Haiku Project site got slashdotted | 16:04 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55582 | 16:04 |
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| * RST38h is personally ok with Mickey promoting jihad, serves him well. | 16:05 | |
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| RST38h | Too bad no tentacles are involved, of course. | 16:06 |
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| wazd | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/zune-hd-on-sale-early-small.jpg <- OLED definitely rocks :) | 16:10 |
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| RST38h | What about life expectancy though? | 16:11 |
| crashanddie | wazd: still a bloody zune so it's going to suck for one reason or another | 16:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, Zune HD has pretty low display resolution, so it doesn't eat so much power | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | wazd: everytime the zune has come out, the creators did something that can only be explained by one thought: "Ok, so basically, we've made the device awesome, now we need to get it up to our regular standard and make it suck HARD, what can we f up?" | 16:12 |
| RST38h | wazd: I actually meant different thing | 16:12 |
| mihu | Is there a know problem with login to maemo.org? I registered on Garage and can login there, but cannot login on maemo.org. | 16:12 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: um | 16:12 |
| wazd | crashanddie: hmm, the hype tells me that it's gonna sell well :) | 16:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: People say OLEDs go bad way sooner than LCDs | 16:13 |
| timeless_mbp | how do i call the belarussian embassy in urkraine? | 16:13 |
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| wazd | RST38h: oh, OLED dies | 16:13 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't speak Belarussian or ... | 16:13 |
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| wazd | RST38h: but you know, if it will die in like 5 years, who cares :) | 16:13 |
| ccooke | RST38h: they do, but the worst case - blue - should still last 3-4 years of very heavy use | 16:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: Yea, unfortunately :( | 16:13 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: people also say that they received an email from The Ministry of Defence telling them that a specific phone number is dangerous and will hijack your phone, don't answer it | 16:13 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Got the number? | 16:14 |
| crashanddie | :) | 16:14 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: why do you need the belarussian embassy? | 16:14 |
| timeless_mbp | if i want to visit minsk | 16:14 |
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| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: also, there is none, there's a consulate, at best | 16:14 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll need a visa | 16:14 |
| RST38h | ccooke: so the first sign of dying OLED is picture going brownish? | 16:14 |
| timeless_mbp | embassy, consulate, what's the difference? :) | 16:15 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: Minsk is in Belarussia, why Ukraine? | 16:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i.e. i don't care about the difference as long as they issue vidas | 16:15 |
| mgedmin | mihu: I'm just guessing wildly, but maybe the user database needs to gets synchronized between the two sites; i.e. maybe wait a few minutes and try again? | 16:15 |
| X-Fade | mihu: What is your account name on garage? | 16:15 |
| crashanddie | consulate is a volunteer, unpaid, and usually only open once a week, embassy is a government official | 16:15 |
| lcuk | hey VDVsx welcome back!!! | 16:15 |
| ccooke | RST38h: probably. Hard to say. | 16:15 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: because i'll be in Ukraine on Thursday | 16:15 |
| lcuk | hope you enjoyed london and onedotzero and playing on the n900 :D | 16:15 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: oh :) | 16:15 |
| ccooke | RST38h: ... Although that does make me feel amused that the Zune is one of the first PMPs using it ;-) | 16:15 |
| RST38h | moo lcuk | 16:15 |
| lcuk | hey RST38h \o | 16:16 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: no Moscow in your tour? :D | 16:16 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: I can't believe we didn't even talk to each other while you were here, standing litterally next to me | 16:16 |
| mihu | mgedmin: I says to wait a few minutes, so I tried after ~20 minutes. | 16:16 |
| RST38h | ccooke: Have to be different at least in something... | 16:16 |
| mihu | X-Fade: tsbmhu | 16:16 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: not this one, no | 16:16 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, thanks, was cool :) | 16:16 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: o/ | 16:16 |
| ccooke | RST38h: bah. The Zune was stealing Ubuntu's looks. | 16:16 |
| RST38h | ccooke: Given that the first Zunes were actually Toshibas... | 16:16 |
| ccooke | RST38h: indeed | 16:16 |
| lcuk | hey mr bodyguard! thanks for your help around london seb | 16:16 |
| RST38h | cooke: And had that beautiful semitransparent turd color... | 16:17 |
| lcuk | wouldv been lost without you :) | 16:17 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: I didn't really do a lot | 16:17 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, crashanddie, where ? probably wasn't me :P | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp | http://travel.state.gov/travel/travel_1744.html | 16:17 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: yeah, was you, in the EAT restaurant? At BFI? :P | 16:17 |
| * timeless_mbp puzzles | 16:17 | |
| timeless_mbp | someone check that map for me | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp | Russia is part of Europe? | 16:17 |
| thresh | of course | 16:17 |
| RST38h | wazd: BTW, miracle happened | 16:17 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: mostly, yes. Bits of it are parts of Asia. | 16:18 |
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| thresh | wait, what? | 16:18 |
| timeless_mbp | ccooke: i know that some of Russia is in Europe | 16:18 |
| thresh | mostly, no | 16:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: NO MORE LUGGAGE CHECKS for US flights | 16:18 |
| thresh | bits of Russia are in Europe | 16:18 |
| timeless_mbp | but i usually would have said that *most* of Russia is NOT in Europe | 16:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: oh :) | 16:18 |
| X-Fade | mihu: Hasn't been synched yet indeed. | 16:18 |
| thresh | have you ever seen a globe? | 16:18 |
| ccooke | Well. Mostly on standard maps. I'm not sure about the balance on equal-areaa maps | 16:18 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: then again, they put afghanistan in "NEAR EAST" | 16:18 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, you were there and listened to me :) | 16:18 |
| X-Fade | mihu: Should happen soon. | 16:18 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: it's unsafe, near east seems fitting :) | 16:18 |
| thresh | ccooke: your planet differs from mine, it seems | 16:18 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: Politically or geologically? :-) | 16:18 |
| mihu | X-Fade: Thanks for checking. | 16:18 |
| * RST38h prays for Obama's well being | 16:19 | |
| crashanddie | oh, and for all you yanks out there: yes, europe stops after germany | 16:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | wow: | 16:21 |
| timeless_mbp | > foreigners may enter Belarus with up to $10,000 and exit the country with up to $3,000 without submitting a written declaration. | 16:21 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, I saw you at the restaurant, but I wasn't in the same table as you were ;) | 16:21 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: so you're basically bound to lose 7k | 16:22 |
| jaska | for all the bribes | 16:22 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 16:22 |
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| thopiekar | I created a chroot yesterday and I want to use it on my tablet.. is there a how to do that? | 16:23 |
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| millenomi | mmm, has anyone found themselves tangling with GCC refusing to see mpfr.h during configure? | 16:24 |
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| zap | millenomi: have you looked in config.log? | 16:25 |
| millenomi | just a sec, this build script used a separate build dir and I couldn't find it | 16:26 |
| fiferboy | lbt: How is the webview finger scrolling going? | 16:26 |
| millenomi | a-ha. | 16:27 |
| millenomi | stupid Mac fat binaries are stupid. | 16:27 |
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| Khertan | Hi ! | 16:27 |
| thopiekar | hi Khertan | 16:27 |
| millenomi | export CC="gcc -arch i386" ftw. | 16:28 |
| crashanddie | yo Khertan | 16:28 |
| timeless_mbp | millenomi: what about smart mac fat binaries? | 16:28 |
| thopiekar | how are you? | 16:28 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps: still here ? | 16:28 |
| millenomi | timeless_mbp: oh those work very well. | 16:28 |
| Khertan | i m fine and you ? | 16:28 |
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| thopiekar | me too thanks, Khertan | 16:29 |
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| *** tbf is now known as tbf|afk | 16:32 | |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 16:34 | |
| * timeless_mbp can't figure out how to get useful information | 16:34 | |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 16:34 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Goddamn Wikipedia | 16:35 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 16:36 | |
| timeless_mbp | Myrtti: you're a finn, right? | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | https://faq.ebookers.com/cgi-bin/ebookers_uk.cfg/php/enduser/home.php?p_sid=g_iy7WHj | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | > | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | For immediate assistance, call our Customer Service Centre at 0871 223 5000 , or +44 871 223 5000 (Primary) and +44 203 320 3320 (Secondary) from outside of the UK. Our Customer Service Centre is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. | 16:36 |
| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: yup | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | is my reading of that wrong? i think i tried dilaing the 871 number | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | s/dila/dial/ | 16:37 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: is my reading of that wrong? i think i tried dialing the 871 number | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | but i got ... well, could you call it? :) | 16:37 |
| * timeless_mbp tries to find a useful phone number for ebookers | 16:37 | |
| RST38h | Heh...Nokia's web site hung FireFox | 16:37 |
| RST38h | What the hell are they doing with JavaScript there??? | 16:38 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: something evil, what else is new? | 16:38 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 16:38 | |
| * timeless_mbp can't figure out how to deal w/ this | 16:38 | |
| glass | RST38h: they're refactoring the site to break even more links, using your cpu power with js | 16:39 |
| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: the 871 number is the same as the second number | 16:39 |
| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: it just lacks the international UK prefix | 16:39 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, so you're saying that the number is local for England? | 16:39 |
| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: here, you need some coffee | 16:39 |
| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: yes | 16:39 |
| timeless_mbp | can you find me a number local to finland? :) | 16:40 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 16:40 | |
| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: it even says it there on the thing you pasted | 16:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm sick :) | 16:40 |
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| RST38h | glass: connecting to the fridge and linking it with the door bell, no doubt... | 16:40 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, my phone knows a number | 16:41 |
| RST38h | all right, time to go | 16:41 |
| Myrtti | CSS at 0871--- , OR +44871... and +44203 from outside uk | 16:41 |
| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: for all I can see, there is no number local to finland | 16:41 |
| timeless_mbp | Myrtti: heh | 16:41 |
| thopiekar | wanna mount a file with a ext3 fs on my tablet but get this: mount: mounting /dev/loop0 on /chroot faild .. | 16:42 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a number, since my phone knows the number | 16:42 |
| thopiekar | do you know why? | 16:42 |
| thopiekar | * as root | 16:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | great | 16:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | the first busy signal i get is calling what should be the belarus embassy in the DC.US | 16:46 |
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| mihu | X-Fade: Another 30 minutes have passed and I still cannot login. Is there something you can do for me? | 16:47 |
| * timeless_mbp finds a secondary number | 16:48 | |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: you tried the one in Kiev? | 16:50 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | no answer? | 16:50 |
| timeless_mbp | no English? | 16:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i must have taken a wrong turn in the menu | 16:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i just spoke with someone at the Belarus Embassy in DC and he said that someone on the phone should have been able to answer in English | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.belarusembassy.org/consular/eng/visa_requirements.htm | 16:53 |
| crashanddie | just keep pressing 0 until you hear a human voice | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | has a whole set of things i'll need | 16:53 |
| crashanddie | LMAO | 16:53 |
| crashanddie | "secondary passport" from some island | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: 0 doesn't seem to work well in certain countries | 16:53 |
| crashanddie | "Dominica Passport Single Applicant Fees are only US$75,000 + Legal Fees & Background Checks" | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | where's that? | 16:53 |
| zerojay | Speak louder and slower. They will understand. | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | "St. Kitts Passport Single Applicant Fee is US$35,000 + Investment of US$350,000 + Legal Fees & Background Checks" | 16:54 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 16:54 | |
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| timeless_mbp | so I guess I want a Type C visa | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | sure, I'll just get a secondary passport for half a million bucks | 16:54 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: where are you reading? | 16:54 |
| Myrtti | One Can Always Read Wrong | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | just some website, nevermind | 16:55 |
| Myrtti | "St. Kittens Passport Single Applicant Fee..." | 16:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 16:55 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 16:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok... | 16:55 |
| timeless_mbp | so, is a single Entry visa really a good idea? | 16:55 |
| timeless_mbp | or am i going to get in trouble? | 16:56 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, it's only 160 EUR assuming they're not doing evil stuff on the exchange | 16:56 |
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| crashanddie | single entry? | 16:57 |
| crashanddie | well, yeah, you're alone, right? | 16:57 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 16:57 |
| crashanddie | then unless you want to buddy up for the costs, yeah | 16:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | i assume that entry = my ability to enter the country | 16:57 |
| timeless_mbp | so if i enter and leave, i can't return | 16:57 |
| crashanddie | no | 16:58 |
| timeless_mbp | no? | 16:58 |
| crashanddie | IIRC, it's for the number of people who require the visa | 16:58 |
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| crashanddie | or maybe not | 16:59 |
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| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: after reading that page more intently, it would appear you are correct | 17:00 |
| crashanddie | "isas can be issued upon submitting a certified cable from a doctor" | 17:01 |
| crashanddie | wait, what? | 17:01 |
| crashanddie | Doctors issue cables? | 17:01 |
| timeless_mbp | they're like telegraphs, only different | 17:01 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 17:03 | |
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| * timeless_mbp sighs | 17:04 | |
| * timeless_mbp needs to figure out this calendar too | 17:05 | |
| timeless_mbp | if i'm in Ukraine for ~10 days, then when would i actually be in Belarus? | 17:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | this is so not working | 17:07 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: you do realise that we're not actually *all* your PA? | 17:07 |
| timeless_mbp | PA? | 17:07 |
| crashanddie | so asking questions about *your* calendar isn't very helpful | 17:07 |
| timeless_mbp | planning agency? | 17:07 |
| crashanddie | private assistant | 17:07 |
| crashanddie | personnal/ | 17:07 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: kiev got a lot of interesting stuff to visit | 17:08 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah sure | 17:09 |
| crashanddie | seriously, just hire a bike (ok, maybe a bit hard, considering I didn't see a single bike over there) and just take off | 17:09 |
| timeless_mbp | but hrm | 17:09 |
| timeless_mbp | well, i don't have a driver's license | 17:09 |
| crashanddie | bike | 17:09 |
| crashanddie | bicycle | 17:09 |
| crashanddie | push-bike | 17:09 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 17:09 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 17:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | so... my goal is to spend ~15 days in ~3 countries | 17:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and it seems pretty clear i've screwed up my planning entirely | 17:10 |
| *** uzzed is now known as Sobrinho | 17:10 | |
| timeless_mbp | because at this point belarus seems impractical | 17:10 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 17:10 | |
| *** Sobrinho is now known as Sobbrinho | 17:10 | |
| crashanddie | just do poland then | 17:10 |
| crashanddie | or hire a car and go down to the sea (about 8h drive though) | 17:11 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, so, maybe kiev (5 days) => warsaw (?) => krakow () => prague (must be there by oct 3) | 17:11 |
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| crashanddie | when are you leaving? | 17:12 |
| mihu | I wanted to register for the Maemo summit. I created an account for Garage, and now can login and visit the registration site for the waiting list. But I cannot enter anything into fields like "Job title" or "Country". It seems this is automatically filled in, but I cannot find the settings either in Garage nor on the Maemo site for my account. Where can I change these settings? | 17:13 |
| crashanddie | mihu: you can modify job title during the request | 17:14 |
| crashanddie | mihu: I just did | 17:14 |
| mihu | crashanddie: So just with "Next" skip to the next page and then change the stuff there? | 17:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | i fly to ukraine thursday | 17:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | mihu: wiki.maemo.org should let you edit your profile | 17:15 |
| crashanddie | mihu: There's a page where you can change everything (the same one where they ask the information about the sponsorship request) | 17:15 |
| timeless_mbp | https://maemo.org/profile/edit/ | 17:16 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: I'd recommend you travel either early saturday morning or monday evening | 17:16 |
| mihu | timeless_mbp: Ah, thanks. Somehow I managed to skip this during registration. Thanks for your help. | 17:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: travel where? | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | and note that i don't travel on saturdays :) | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: to warsaw or krakow | 17:18 |
| mihu | crashanddie: After updating my profile, now I can change all settings on the registration page. Thanks for your help. | 17:19 |
| timeless_mbp | so.... | 17:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i probably should travel tuesday (or monday night) from kiev to warsaw or krakow | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: i'm probably up for a meet if you come past warsaw but currently don't have a couch to provide :P | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | if i am not abroad, that is | 17:21 |
| timeless_mbp | assume monday night | 17:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'd need to travel thursday night from one of krakow/warsaw to the other | 17:21 |
| timeless_mbp | that leaves me in one of them for that weekend | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | mm, i'm gone sunday-the next monday | 17:22 |
| timeless_mbp | then i have a bit of free time (i.e. i messed up again) before i magic to prague on thursday/friday | 17:22 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, redo :) | 17:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damn typos. | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Trying to multitask isn't working out today. | 17:23 |
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| * timeless_mbp coughs | 17:33 | |
| * timeless_mbp really needs to visit the doctor | 17:33 | |
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| * Stskeeps is curled up under his duvet with tea, tablet and the simpsons on media centre | 17:37 | |
| * millenomi fights with the Apple linker. | 17:38 | |
| Stskeeps | ubuntu vm may be saner | 17:39 |
| millenomi | the idea is that CT integrates with Xcode, so I'm trying not to deviate from its expected environment too much. | 17:39 |
| millenomi | I just modified the target to arm-none-linux-gnueabi | 17:39 |
| timeless_mbp | CT? | 17:39 |
| millenomi | cocotron.org | 17:39 |
| thopiekar | got my chroot now mounted on my tablet but when I want start it via "~# chroot /chroot " the term says >> cannot execute /bin/sh: Exec format error | 17:40 |
| timeless_mbp | wouldn't you want to use a cross linker? | 17:40 |
| thopiekar | whats the problem? | 17:40 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: what is in the chroot? | 17:41 |
| timeless_mbp | thopiekar: file /chroot/bin/sh | 17:41 |
| millenomi | no, it's GCC compilation (linking GCC itself on the host) that is slightly broken. nothing that cannot be changed by careful editing of the makefiles. | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | and what timeless_mbp said | 17:41 |
| millenomi | all the fun re: cross-compiling has yet to start :) | 17:41 |
| thopiekar | ubuntu-minimal + avr-compiler + java for the arduinoIDE.. | 17:41 |
| thopiekar | http://arduino.cc | 17:41 |
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| thopiekar | mom | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: that sounds x86ish | 17:42 |
| thopiekar | yes | 17:42 |
| millenomi | the tablet isn't x86 :) | 17:42 |
| timeless_mbp | millenomi: there you go taking the fun out of it | 17:42 |
| millenomi | or I would have had a much easier time doing the mad thing I'm doing :) | 17:43 |
| thopiekar | > file: file not found.. | 17:43 |
| millenomi | I'm all about strangling the fun in its infancy. | 17:43 |
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| thopiekar | so I need to install bash on the tablet or sh in the chroot isn'T it? | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: apt-get install file | 17:43 |
| thopiekar | on the tab. , Stskeeps | 17:44 |
| thopiekar | ? | 17:44 |
| timeless_mbp | file /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh | 17:44 |
| timeless_mbp | thopiekar: whereever you wanted to run 'file' ... | 17:44 |
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| thopiekar | sh: file: not found , on my device | 17:45 |
| thopiekar | so k I install it now on my chroot | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: you are trying to use x86 binaries on arm, which is futile.. | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | might work with qemu, but it's insane | 17:46 |
| thopiekar | aah I know what you want to hear from me.. "use Mer instead" :D | 17:47 |
| timeless_mbp | um | 17:47 |
| timeless_mbp | more like "oh, i get it, boy what i was trying to do was stupid" | 17:47 |
| thopiekar | :P, timeless_mbp | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: no, x86 under arm is insane under mer too | 17:47 |
| timeless_mbp | apt-get install file on the tablet | 17:47 |
| timeless_mbp | chroot doesn't magically change architecture | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | but to understand that, you need to have file working somewhere (i,e, tablet) | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | ok | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | so, back to that schedule | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i could use my blank spot for bratislava | 17:49 |
| thopiekar | k installed file and linked busybox and dash | 17:49 |
| timeless_mbp | file /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh | 17:49 |
| thopiekar | yes | 17:49 |
| timeless_mbp | well read the output? | 17:49 |
| thopiekar | /bin/sh: symlink to busybox | 17:50 |
| thopiekar | /chroot/bin/sh: symlink to dash | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | file /bin/dash | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | er. | 17:51 |
| thopiekar | lol # which dash > "" | 17:52 |
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| thopiekar | file /bin/dash: can not open /bin/dash | 17:52 |
| timeless_mbp | file /bin/busybox | 17:52 |
| timeless_mbp | file /chroot/bin/dash | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | file /bin/busybox | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | er. yeah. | 17:52 |
| * timeless_mbp kicks file for being annoying | 17:53 | |
| timeless_mbp | file -L /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh | 17:53 |
| * timeless_mbp kicks file for not being posix | 17:54 | |
| timeless_mbp | POSIXLY_CORRECT=1 file /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh | 17:54 |
| timeless_mbp | (for people who like posix) | 17:54 |
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| thopiekar | ok I install openssh now | 17:55 |
| thopiekar | :P | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | openssh rules | 17:56 |
| mgedmin | and so does avahi | 17:56 |
| millenomi | avahi++ | 17:56 |
| mgedmin | except avahi's init scripts are started waaaay too early by default | 17:56 |
| timeless_mbp | avahi? | 17:57 |
| millenomi | Bonjour/mDNS/Zeroconf implementation for Linux. | 17:57 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: before taking to much time with that.. | 17:59 |
| thopiekar | Does Mer have ttyUSB0 support? | 17:59 |
| thopiekar | I mean Serial USB support? | 17:59 |
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| thopiekar | POSIXLY_CORRECT=1 file /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh | 18:00 |
| thopiekar | POSIXLY_CORRECT=1 file /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | thopiekar: we heard the first time, thank you | 18:00 |
| thopiekar | sorry mgedmin :/ | 18:01 |
| thopiekar | - /bin/sh: symbolic link to `busybox' | 18:01 |
| thopiekar | - /chroot/bin/sh: symbolic link to `dash' | 18:01 |
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| timeless_mbp | wtf? | 18:02 |
| timeless_mbp | bah, use -L ? | 18:02 |
| timeless_mbp | BUGS | 18:02 |
| timeless_mbp | This manual page, and particularly this section, is too long. | 18:02 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, what gives? | 18:03 |
| timeless_mbp | POSIXLY_CORRECT is in the file man page on a linux box i have | 18:03 |
| thopiekar | file -L /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh | 18:04 |
| thopiekar | - /bin/sh: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped | 18:04 |
| thopiekar | - /chroot/bin/sh: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | sounds like your shell was stupid wrt POSIXLY_CORRECT | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | on a non lame shell, that'd have worked | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, hopefully this output from file will explain the problem | 18:05 |
| thopiekar | yep | 18:05 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, so... kiev, warsaw, krakow, bratislava | 18:06 |
| timeless_mbp | that doesn't seem too bad | 18:06 |
| thopiekar | btw. if catched that false.. I will be not able to chroot into it until it'S x86? | 18:06 |
| thopiekar | ^ timeless_mbp | 18:06 |
| timeless_mbp | if your system is arm, then you can generally only run arm binaries | 18:07 |
| thopiekar | ah ok :) | 18:07 |
| timeless_mbp | chroot doesn't change the processor of your hardware | 18:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | it just changes the paths that your software sees | 18:07 |
| thopiekar | k | 18:07 |
| timeless_mbp | qemu and friends can change the hardware that software sees | 18:07 |
| thopiekar | thanks, timeless_mbp | 18:07 |
| timeless_mbp | but the cost is incredibly high | 18:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: ping :) | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | pong | 18:14 |
| Corsac | and qemu doesn't really support omap3 | 18:14 |
| Corsac | even the qemu-omap3 project | 18:14 |
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| millenomi | duh, is there anything GCC can't do? (cross-compilin', cross-compilin') | 18:15 |
| luke-jr | ... | 18:15 |
| luke-jr | yes | 18:15 |
| timeless_mbp | millenomi: generate decent code? | 18:15 |
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| millenomi | ah, that, yes. | 18:15 |
| timeless_mbp | generate debuggable code? | 18:16 |
| luke-jr | GCC can't compile x86/arm/etc into another architecture | 18:16 |
| timeless_mbp | fully support c99? | 18:16 |
| * timeless_mbp isn't sure about that last one | 18:16 | |
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| timeless_mbp | maybe c++201x | 18:16 |
| millenomi | all that stops me from cross-compiling this runtime to ARM is a tiny speck of assembly code that I shall now research and rewrite. | 18:16 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: meh, who cares about c99 | 18:17 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: the new C is c2009! | 18:17 |
| * luke-jr writes his C in C99 | 18:17 | |
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| crashanddie | I write my apps directly through cat | gcc | 18:18 |
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| *** pb-away is now known as penguinbait | 18:19 | |
| mavhc | gcc does cross compile, the risc os people do it that way | 18:20 |
| * mgedmin used gcc < /dev/stdin on a couple of occasions | 18:22 | |
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| RST38h | reMoo | 18:40 |
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| RST38h | Ah, shitload of newly open Maemo job vacancies! | 18:42 |
| lbt | mmm | 18:42 |
| lbt | where? | 18:42 |
| RST38h | http://nokia.taleo.net/careersection/10120/jobsearch.ftl?lang=en | 18:42 |
| RST38h | Be careful, it hangs browsers | 18:42 |
| lbt | so it does | 18:43 |
| GiantTalkingCow | Well that's a bit counterproductive, to say the least. | 18:45 |
| zerojay | They all expect far too much experience. | 18:45 |
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| RST38h | where? | 18:46 |
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| jaska | yeah, you need M.Sc. to mop floors there | 18:46 |
| zerojay | Look at your own link. | 18:46 |
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| RST38h | You mean the +18years thing? | 18:46 |
| RST38h | +16, sorry | 18:46 |
| jaska | +18 on what i saw | 18:47 |
| zerojay | Yep. | 18:47 |
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| lbt | what's wrong with that? | 18:47 |
| lbt | heh | 18:47 |
| RST38h | Not all of them. Besides, I have got about that much =) | 18:47 |
| zerojay | Nothing unless they want to fill the positions. | 18:48 |
| RST38h | wazd: Hey, they are looking for UI graphics designer ;) | 18:48 |
| jaska | well, around here people tend to be overeducated (which says nothing about their skills, those vary wildly) | 18:48 |
| * RST38h is kinda suspicious about the +/- sign before those 18 years though =) | 18:49 | |
| RST38h | Will negative experience do? | 18:49 |
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| jaska | what does negative experience mean, visual basic? | 18:49 |
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| RST38h | Or maybe they expect to keep you locked up and working for them until you reach 18 years of experience... | 18:50 |
| luke-jr | haha | 18:50 |
| RST38h | BUT, gentlemen, may it be that the +/-18 means that your degree has to be earned no farther than 18 years ago? | 18:50 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: ping | 18:51 |
| lbt | ageism! | 18:51 |
| wazd | RST38h: yeah, I kinda fit but I have no grade and I'm too young :( | 18:51 |
| jaska | 0 years of education and ~7 years of experience, so no point in even looking there | 18:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, pong? | 18:51 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: you going to be at this summit? >_> | 18:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, yeah. | 18:51 |
| rm_you | finally :P | 18:51 |
| RST38h | wazd: Well, the "Head of..." vacancy is beyond reach, but maybe they are also looking for UI designer in general? (not for the manager type) | 18:51 |
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| * GeneralAntilles still needs a roommate. | 18:52 | |
| RST38h | female roommate no doubt | 18:52 |
| rm_you | oh, wanna look at my travel arrangements and verify that they're accurate? | 18:52 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://nokia.taleo.net/careersection/10120/jobdetail.ftl | 18:52 |
| rm_you | need to email kaleva and confirm | 18:52 |
| RST38h | says no longer available | 18:52 |
| wazd | RST38h: strange :) | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i'm up for it but you'd prolly end up murdering me in your sleep ;) | 18:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, type "maemo" in keywords here: http://nokia.taleo.net/careersection/10120/jobsearch.ftl?lang=en | 18:53 |
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| RST38h | Ok, +/-18 thing is a dummy. | 18:53 |
| RST38h | wazd: I just did, got a list | 18:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: 7th position | 18:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, what, do you recite the periodic table in your sleep or something? ;) | 18:53 |
| RST38h | In job descriptions they clearly specify "5 years of experience" | 18:54 |
| wazd | RST38h: and yeah, 18 +/- is a little confusing :D | 18:54 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: naah.a | 18:54 |
| jaska | 18 years of education and 5 years of exp on top of that?:) | 18:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: The Principal thing will most likely kill your application. BUT, there are more graphics design jobs in the list | 18:54 |
| wazd | jaska: jeez :D | 18:54 |
| jaska | lol. | 18:54 |
| rm_you | I'll prolly end up rooming with johnx if he goes, but dunno yet if he's getting sponsored | 18:55 |
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| wazd | RST38h: well, I can at least make coffee for UX Team :D | 18:56 |
| halves | ls | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | . | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | .. | 18:56 |
| RST38h | wazd: Yes, poisoning the UX team may be a good strategic move | 18:57 |
| halves | :-) | 18:57 |
| wazd | RST38h: I don't have an example of a good CV though to apply :( | 18:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, who knows, they may be fans of your Mermagotchi. :P | 19:00 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: they definitely are :P | 19:00 |
| wazd | (Senior) Designer, Graphic Design-HEL000001WJ | 19:02 |
| wazd | that's the right thing I guess | 19:03 |
| RST38h | more or less | 19:03 |
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| wazd | 3 years of design experience, AP, AI, AF, info design, UI/UX, good eye, design documentation, fluent English. Additionaly web design, localization, portfolio :) | 19:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Do it. | 19:06 |
| RST38h | definitely will do | 19:06 |
| RST38h | and get the freaking travel passport ASAP | 19:06 |
| wazd | RST38h: working on it :) | 19:07 |
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| RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/14/te_hokioi/ and check the most-read column on the right (aka "why I like TheRegister) | 19:11 |
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| Corsac | the swedish one? | 19:16 |
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| RST38h | oh, just any of 'em | 19:17 |
| RST38h | From the giant man-eating eagle to the Germans satisfying their latex needs with dandelions... | 19:18 |
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| Captain_Picard | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/24/swedish_shortage/ | 19:20 |
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| * RST38h wonders why doing it the old-fashioned way is not longer acceptable | 19:21 | |
| Corsac | like, directly with the donor? | 19:22 |
| RST38h | Yep | 19:22 |
| RST38h | BTW, remember how we were all told that "because N900 is a phone, it needs smaller display to be comfortable"? | 19:22 |
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| RST38h | Here, HTC prototype with a 4.3" 800x480 display: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/htc-leo-spotted-in-the-wild-sports-gargantuan-800-x-480-display/ | 19:23 |
| aSIMULAter | RST38h: lol | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, how many normal people do you think would buy that, though? | 19:23 |
| RST38h | General: I would (if not for WinMo) but I am not normal by any measure | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | The idea is that in order to appeal to a more mainstream (and, thus, substantially larger) customer base, a 3.5" screen is a more reasonable proposition. | 19:24 |
| RST38h | It does not look too uncomfortable though, if it is thin | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which doesn't preclude a Maemo device with a larger display in the future. | 19:24 |
| RST38h | hopefully, yes | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's just not something that they're going to launch their new high-end platform with first. | 19:24 |
| penguinbait | I concur | 19:24 |
| penguinbait | "hopefully yes" | 19:24 |
| RST38h | and, btw, the biggest problem will be not the physical screen size | 19:24 |
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| RST38h | but the ability to adapt to any screen resolution | 19:24 |
| RST38h | This fixation at 800x480 is not good for the platform | 19:25 |
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| mavhc | stretchy screens needed | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, resolution independence was on the roadmap years ago. | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's probably still a consideration. | 19:26 |
| RST38h | General: And it was even shown to work a few times | 19:27 |
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| Stskeeps | resolution indepence is trivial | 19:28 |
| RST38h | Sts: Only if all your stock apps can resize themselves | 19:29 |
| RST38h | Otherwise, it is PITA x <number of apps> | 19:29 |
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| penguinbait | is there a way to get alternate screen resolutions on video out on the n900 or is it still 800x480? | 19:31 |
| RST38h | rotate it :) | 19:31 |
| RST38h | instant alternate resolution | 19:31 |
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| RST38h | penguin: the tv encoder works off the main screen buffer, so the only way to do that is to change the main resolution. Also, don't want to disappoint, but analog video has some inherent problems with anything >640x480 | 19:33 |
| RST38h | With NTSC starting to have color problems at widths >256 pixels | 19:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure if mono output at high res may work | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not implausible - but you'd need an adaptor | 19:38 |
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| RST38h | Ahha, Murtazin appears to be preparing another N900 article. But he is now really negative on N900. | 19:41 |
| RST38h | Calling it niche device, etc. | 19:41 |
| * RST38h off | 19:41 | |
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| SpeedEvil | It _is_ a niche device | 19:44 |
| SpeedEvil | At least - compared to phones. | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | a phone you can stay all day in a niche with | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | without getting bored | 19:44 |
| * GeneralAntilles already has a niche, just needs the phone now. | 19:45 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | But it's not going to be outselling the iphone this time next week. :) | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | s/week/month/ | 19:46 |
| infobot | SpeedEvil meant: But it's not going to be outselling the iphone this time next month. :) | 19:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sure, but who cares? | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I care. I'd like it to be volume. | 19:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Compared to the cellular market at large, the iPhone is a niche too. | 19:47 |
| SpeedEvil | indeed | 19:47 |
| SpeedEvil | It's still one of the larger selling individual phone models | 19:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You know how many enV3's I've seen in the past 6 months? | 19:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - if it wasn't niche - I might be able to afford it. | 19:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - if it was available through carriers. | 19:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | As currently through the UKs pricing scheme - I would pay as much for a suitable contract with internet with or without a phone. And the phones available are perhaps 1/3 the price of the device | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, this does suck - but... | 19:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | US, too. | 19:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whatever, I just want a usable phone. | 19:51 |
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| millenomi | just one thing: anyone knows a replacement for __sync_bool_compare_and_swap that runs on ARM in general and on Maemo tablets in particular? | 19:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | Me too - but for me usable includes being able to afford :) | 19:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Give it 6 months. | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah | 19:53 |
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| Corsac | in 6 months n910 will be announced | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I can see the price dropping - but I'd be surprised if the networks are carrying it. | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | (delighted - but surprised) | 19:53 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, as a phone its splendid | 19:53 |
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| lcuk | seamless text message conversations | 19:54 |
| lcuk | ive actually started txting people :$ | 19:54 |
| aSIMULAter | you like sms conversation view? :) | 19:54 |
| millenomi | if anyone can answer the above question, it means I just ported Cocotron's pretty modern Objective-C and Foundation runtime to Maemo. | 19:54 |
| lcuk | aSIMULAter, sms messaging on any previous device has been "oh shit what did they say" and hope i remember | 19:54 |
| lcuk | now its a conversation :) | 19:55 |
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| * aSIMULAter is happy you like it | 19:55 | |
| lcuk | aSIMULAter, did you create/have a part in it | 19:55 |
| millenomi | (in fact, I replaced that call with a thread-unsafe macro and I'm going to see if the toolchain produced an actually working executable.) | 19:55 |
| lcuk | cos there is a bug.. | 19:55 |
| aSIMULAter | what bug? | 19:55 |
| lcuk | hahaha you wanna pm | 19:55 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hi again | 19:55 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://live.gnome.org/gbrainy <-- it could be interesting for maemo if not coded in mono :( | 19:56 |
| millenomi | /join #gcc | 19:57 |
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| millenomi | whoops o_O | 19:57 |
| millenomi | how did it not become a command? | 19:57 |
| millenomi | strange. | 19:57 |
| SpeedEvil | millenomi: you're spraying random chars everywhere | 19:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | not a / | 19:57 |
| millenomi | ew, sorry, didn't mean to | 19:57 |
| SpeedEvil | for example - after 'foundation' - you have a 001c unicode box | 19:57 |
| SpeedEvil | millenomi: maybe that's it | 19:57 |
| millenomi | *sigh* | 19:58 |
| SpeedEvil | millenomi: doesn't bother - I was just meaning that's maybe the reason | 19:58 |
| millenomi | yep, it probably is | 19:58 |
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| crashanddie | http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/GnomeWorldWideHuge.jpg | 20:00 |
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| crashanddie | there's a couple of smartypanties who thought it'd be fun to pretend they were in antartica | 20:01 |
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| mgedmin | and someone is at +0+0 | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | I think | 20:02 |
| Sho_ | KDE used to have a similar map | 20:02 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I see nobody wants you as a roommate | 20:02 |
| mgedmin | no, it was a different version of that map that I remember on the wiki | 20:02 |
| Sho_ | Not been updated in an eterinity, though, I think | 20:02 |
| Sho_ | *eternity | 20:02 |
| crashanddie | the newspaper I was supposed to start writing for is closing shop before they even published my first column :( | 20:03 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: That's because he'll kill anyone using Maemo/maemo.org in the wrong context | 20:03 |
| * mgedmin remembers that +0+0 is in the ocean, since that's what Maemo Mapper used to do if you pressed "center on gps location" before it got a fix | 20:03 | |
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| SpeedEvil | off africa | 20:04 |
| penguinbait | Maemo.org rules, and don't forget the maemo council ;) | 20:04 |
| * GeneralAntilles is bringing some liquid nitrogen and a trout just for that purpose. | 20:04 | |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: maemo.org is website + community? Then there is Maemo Council, and Maemo software project? | 20:05 |
| penguinbait | #@$^$%^% there is no "maemo council" It is the "maemo community council" cmon people | 20:06 |
| crashanddie | what's that I hear? Someone killing a trout? | 20:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | maemo.org is the website and the brand identity for the community, the Maemo Community is the community, the Maemo Community Council is its elected representatives and Maemo Devices works on Maemo the software platform. | 20:06 |
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| mgedmin | and we all eat Maemo Pancakes for breakfast | 20:07 |
| penguinbait | mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaemo | 20:07 |
| millenomi | http://qkpic.com/cde78 <--- an ObjC binary running under FREMANTLE_ARMEL | 20:07 |
| qwerty12 | And smoke Maemo Weed, and go with Maemo Hookers | 20:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sadly not since the FDA recalled them. | 20:07 |
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| Khertan_n810 | millenomi .... still no cocoa framework ? :) | 20:08 |
| penguinbait | Gee Qwerty, already got a plan eh! | 20:08 |
| millenomi | it has Foundation | 20:08 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: oh, so sweet, you first times with both of those will be at a Maemo event, you truly are dedicated | 20:08 |
| millenomi | Foundation's the lower part of Cocoa -- ie everything except the UI | 20:08 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 20:08 |
| millenomi | which I would not do using AppKit anyway on a mobile thingie. | 20:08 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie, penguinbait: You assume that I'm going :p | 20:08 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: i didn't say this one | 20:09 |
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| millenomi | so, for all intents and purposes, ObjC/Cocoa works on Maemo now. You're all welcome. | 20:09 |
| millenomi | and I can port my app over, yay. | 20:09 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: you're still a virgin, you can wait a couple more years until the summit comes to London | 20:09 |
| penguinbait | I went camping and it was intents | 20:09 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: None of the next events are in Amsterdam. :) | 20:09 |
| Stskeeps | millenomi: woo :) | 20:09 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: I've told you before, your hand doesn't count | 20:09 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: like you can't find weed or hookers in London | 20:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | millinomi: no you can do a printf 'hello word' in cocoa :) | 20:10 |
| Stskeeps | millenomi: post on talk.* about it | 20:10 |
| millenomi | I have no idea what talk.* is. | 20:10 |
| Stskeeps | talk.maemo.org | 20:10 |
| crashanddie | millenomi: talk.marmo.org | 20:10 |
| millenomi | oh. | 20:10 |
| millenomi | :p | 20:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | lol | 20:10 |
| crashanddie | MARMO | 20:10 |
| crashanddie | yaaaaaaaar | 20:10 |
| millenomi | Marble. | 20:10 |
| crashanddie | maemo pirate edition | 20:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | talk.* the place where everybody whine :) | 20:11 |
| zerojay | Lol | 20:11 |
| penguinbait | I got a peg leg and the end of my stump | 20:11 |
| penguinbait | lul | 20:13 |
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| Stskeeps | millenomi: that, or maemo-developers | 20:15 |
| Khertan_n810 | lol 20 people is wearing a mask in the train car where am i | 20:15 |
| Khertan_n810 | paranoiac mode | 20:15 |
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| zerojay | Scientology raid. | 20:15 |
| Khertan_n810 | and one is washing is hand with antiseptic solution | 20:15 |
| Khertan_n810 | funny | 20:16 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_n810: c'est juste parceque tu pues | 20:16 |
| zerojay | Lol | 20:16 |
| zerojay | T'es ben gentil, crash. ;) | 20:16 |
| Khertan_n810 | crashanddie: ca peut pas etre pire que le parfum de la grnognasse derriere moi | 20:16 |
| Khertan_n810 | c est immonde | 20:17 |
| crashanddie | nan mais j'l'aime bien le p'ti rideau ;) | 20:17 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_n810: how are we supposed to pronounce your nick, btw? | 20:17 |
| crashanddie | because, most people I know just say "curtain" | 20:17 |
| zerojay | "you" | 20:17 |
| Khertan_n810 | good question :) | 20:17 |
| qwerty12 | J'deteste Français | 20:17 |
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| Khertan_n810 | qwerty12: why ? because every rules is an exception ? | 20:18 |
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| crashanddie | et voila, ca c'est fait, maintenant on va pouvoir se foutre de la gueule du p'ti qwerty12, et le pauvre va rien bitter de c'qu'on vautre dans un bon p'ti dialecte, et si on a d'la chance, il va se faire des films, le pauvre | 20:19 |
| qwerty12 | Khertan_n810: I couldn't "get" the language and failed, badly, at it :) | 20:19 |
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| qwerty12 | But my aptitude for languages is pretty shitty anyway and I'd be hard pressed to speak something that is not English | 20:19 |
| crashanddie | considering you're already hard pressed speaking just "normal" English :P | 20:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | for my nick : i will say Care Tane ... :) | 20:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | lol | 20:20 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: it could be worse - I could be speaking northerner | 20:21 |
| crashanddie | aye | 20:21 |
| Khertan_n810 | crashanddie: je vaios pas trop critiquer vu mon anglais a deux balles | 20:21 |
| crashanddie | it's funny cuz these days most people think I'm south african | 20:21 |
| zerojay | Your english isn't that bad, khertan. | 20:21 |
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| zerojay | At least not here. | 20:22 |
| * Khertan_n810 remember is phone conferences two weeks ago, with an texan | 20:22 | |
| qwerty12 | Indeed, I can understand what you say. | 20:22 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_n810: oh, those are the worst | 20:22 |
| millenomi | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=326845 | 20:22 |
| millenomi | ther | 20:22 |
| millenomi | e | 20:22 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_n810: try having a phone conf with an indian guy, a russian, an australian and a german | 20:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | specially when speaker is too small and the is cut in the voip | 20:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | add a portuges :) | 20:23 |
| crashanddie | you're too small to pass through VoIP? | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's too much crap to catch up on since I stopped paying attention to computers. | 20:23 |
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| Khertan_n810 | s/the/there | 20:23 |
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| crashanddie | OOOOOOOOOOOOOH BABY YES! | 20:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Creeper | 20:26 |
| AndrewFBlack | anyone know how a theme made using theme maker can be uploaded to extras as a non-free package? | 20:26 |
| crashanddie | Boss just announced I have to attend a team meeting in the US next month | 20:26 |
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| Khertan_3G | re | 20:27 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: Just did some "hand-action"? | 20:27 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: ah | 20:27 |
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| crashanddie | and for "budgetary reasons, all EMEA personel will have to stay over the weekend and flights will be arranged from Tuesday" | 20:27 |
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| crashanddie | 3 days of partying in SF, wooohoooo | 20:27 |
| crashanddie | (and paid for by company) | 20:27 |
| elninja | I wonder how difficult it would be to get Fallout or Fallout 2 running on the n810... | 20:28 |
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| Khertan_try_3 | andrewfblack: why did you wan to upload it as non-free ? are you making really a non-free theme ? | 20:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | elninja, good luck. | 20:30 |
| penguinbait | 1 smart fella, and he felt smart - two smart fella's and they felt smart - three smart fellas and they all felt smart.. | 20:30 |
| AndrewFBlack | Khertan_try_3, because as I under stand it theme make themes have to go as non-free since it doesnt make a full source deb | 20:31 |
| Khertan_try_3 | et la chaussette de l archiduchesse ? | 20:31 |
| Khertan_try_3 | hum ... if it s just the problem, send me your deb and i ll explain you how to do a full source deb with py2deb | 20:32 |
| Khertan_try_3 | so you ll be able to upload it to extras as a free package | 20:33 |
| Khertan_try_3 | :) | 20:33 |
| Khertan_try_3 | khertan_at_khertan.net | 20:33 |
| Khertan_try_3 | @ == _at_ | 20:34 |
| AndrewFBlack | ok I'll send t | 20:34 |
| AndrewFBlack | I"ve never uploaded any of my themes to extras because i was to lazy to figure out how but its about time I learn | 20:35 |
| AndrewFBlack | deb sent | 20:35 |
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| Khertan_try_4 | [19:32] <Khertan_try_3> hum ... if it s just the problem, send me your deb and i ll explain you how to do a full source deb with py2debn[19:32] <Khertan_try_3> so you ll be able to upload it to extras as a free packagen[19:32] <Khertan_try_3> :)n[19:33] <Khertan_try_3> khertan_at_khertan.netn[19:33] <Khertan_try_3> @ == _at_n[19:33] <Khertan_try_3> :) | 20:36 |
| Khertan_try_4 | sorry the 3g network coverage isn t good here | 20:36 |
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| luke-jr | Khertan_try_4: the only thing that didn't get thru was the :) | 20:37 |
| Khertan_try_4 | oh thx | 20:37 |
| Khertan_try_4 | :) | 20:37 |
| crashanddie | Slashdot about "Making science popular again": "We must all rally toward a single goal: without sacrificing the growth of knowledge or scientific innovation, we must invest in a sweeping project to make science relevant to the whole of America's citizenry." | 20:37 |
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| crashanddie | How about making burgers and fries an official and mandatory class in the US? | 20:38 |
| crashanddie | That'll get youth thriving | 20:38 |
| Khertan_try_4 | Restricted too America ... not a quite good start :) | 20:39 |
| crashanddie | in this day and age, anyone who thinks in ideas restricted by countries' borders is a plonker, an idiot, or a liberal democrat | 20:40 |
| Khertan_try_4 | class Burger: | 20:40 |
| crashanddie | (not that there is a big difference between the 3, but still, no generalisations please) | 20:40 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: I would think liberals tend to favour abolishing borders, assuming they're aware of the existence... | 20:41 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: nooooooooo | 20:42 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: lib-dems only want YOUR BRAAAAAAIIINNNS | 20:42 |
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| luke-jr | it's usually the neo-cons that are most America-centric | 20:42 |
| crashanddie | cons are the best in the world | 20:42 |
| penguinbait | more brains | 20:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 20:42 |
| luke-jr | conservatives are a very small minority. neo-cons are just liberals who like to think of themselves as conservative | 20:43 |
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| crashanddie | how can you be a small minority? | 20:43 |
| crashanddie | How hard is it to be a big minority? | 20:43 |
| luke-jr | ... | 20:43 |
| crashanddie | "Yes, the blacks in Africa are a very large minority" | 20:43 |
| luke-jr | English fail | 20:43 |
| crashanddie | anyway | 20:44 |
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| crashanddie | going home, see you in a bit | 20:44 |
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| luke-jr | 49% is a large minority. | 20:45 |
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| mojocafe | ciao ciao bella ciaoooo ! | 20:55 |
| mojocafe | ciao everyone how the french people say! lol... just kidding. | 20:55 |
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| chx | Mi diranno Che bel fior! | 20:56 |
| chx | that's one surprisingly beautiful song. | 20:56 |
| mojocafe | ciao chx.... commo stai !? ..... well that is all i know in italian | 20:56 |
| chx | i dont know italian | 20:56 |
| millenomi | mojocafe: I don't know if I should be flattered or mildly insulted. | 20:56 |
| millenomi | :) | 20:56 |
| chx | that does not stop me from enjoying the song. | 20:56 |
| mojocafe | chx: wich song? | 20:56 |
| chx | that you started to sing? | 20:56 |
| mojocafe | ah, you mean ciao bella ciao | 20:56 |
| mojocafe | right right, now i got you. | 20:56 |
| chx | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55yCQOioTyY | 20:57 |
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| millenomi | it's a very, very sad song. though the Modena City Ramblers do it a LOT of justice. | 20:58 |
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| mojocafe | ok guys - i am desperatly trying to find a way to learn to script for maemo. but the biggest problem i have is that i am working on a thing called "computer with windows XP" *sigh* | 20:59 |
| mojocafe | so how can i develop maemo stuff on it ? | 20:59 |
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| millenomi | grab Ubuntu and install it in a VM | 21:00 |
| millenomi | :) | 21:00 |
| mojocafe | that might work? | 21:01 |
| mojocafe | what VM would you suggest ? | 21:01 |
| millenomi | I'm using VirtualBox on a Mac | 21:02 |
| millenomi | it works rather well and it's free | 21:02 |
| mojocafe | does it also work with XP ? | 21:02 |
| millenomi | yep | 21:02 |
| mojocafe | why isn't there a VB for DOS ? | 21:03 |
| jaska | there is | 21:03 |
| jaska | ah, thought you meant visual basic | 21:03 |
| jaska | oops | 21:03 |
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| mojocafe | :D | 21:04 |
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| mojocafe | 10 print ":D" | 21:04 |
| mojocafe | 20 goto 10 | 21:04 |
| mojocafe | strange.... does not work in here ! | 21:04 |
| mojocafe | :D | 21:04 |
| mojocafe | if i would like to develop my own web browser, is there someting i can relay on ? | 21:05 |
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| lcuk | mojocafe, internet explorer works | 21:07 |
| lcuk | just incorporate the activex into your app | 21:07 |
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| penguinbait | shutdown -h now | 21:07 |
| lcuk | hiya penguinbait :D | 21:08 |
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| lcuk | you seen any of the onedotzero stuff :D | 21:08 |
| lcuk | fuck | 21:08 |
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| mojocafe | lcuk: ok, theorticaly i understand that. but i realy have to do it step by step. ... lcuk... wait, you think in VB ? nah, i want to develo it for maemo :D | 21:10 |
| lcuk | shhhh my liq* ideas start as vb screens ;) | 21:10 |
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| mojocafe | :D | 21:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | mojocafe, just grab the Maemo SDK VM. | 21:12 |
| lcuk | mojocafe, agreed there | 21:12 |
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| mojocafe | Hi General, nice to see ya after so long. | 21:12 |
| lcuk | but isnt a whole browser off the cuff quite an undertaking | 21:12 |
| * lcuk knows | 21:13 | |
| mojocafe | lcuk: well my attempt is to develop something that "grabs the adobe flash active-x or whatever" so that i could develop a mojocafe starting application. | 21:13 |
| lcuk | i told you about a hack that does that already | 21:13 |
| lcuk | problem is, flash binary is closed | 21:14 |
| lcuk | so you wouldnt know how to interface it | 21:14 |
| mojocafe | lcuk: yeah but that was like jewish scrambled up with chinese ... so i wanted to get closer to it | 21:14 |
| lcuk | the maemo getting started guide on the device is a flash thing | 21:14 |
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| wiretapped | mojocafe: import webkit | 21:14 |
| wiretapped | or gtkmozembed | 21:15 |
| wiretapped | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/647041/anyone-have-a-simple-example-for-webkit | 21:15 |
| wiretapped | looks pretty easy | 21:15 |
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| * unixSnob considers offering a bounty for a Maemo video game -- throwing shoes at Bush | 21:15 | |
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| millenomi | code available for Cocoa on Maemo: http://code.google.com/p/cocotron/issues/detail?id=384 | 21:15 |
| mojocafe | wire: THAT looks definitly easy. ..... i am installing virtual box now to get a step closer | 21:16 |
| lcuk | mojocafe, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=25010 | 21:16 |
| wiretapped | http://code.google.com/p/pywebkitgtk/source/browse/trunk/demos/tabbed_browser.py looks slightly less easy | 21:17 |
| wiretapped | gtk.IT_IS_NECESSARY_TO_USE_ALL_CAPS_AND_MANY_UNDERSCORES | 21:17 |
| millenomi | AUTOCOMPLETE_WAS_INVENTED_FOR_A_REASON :) | 21:17 |
| wiretapped | OW_MY_EYES | 21:18 |
| mojocafe | virtualbox axes (!) me for an OS and a version. Os= linux but what version would you recommend to install the maemo sdk ? | 21:18 |
| mojocafe | ubuntu ? | 21:18 |
| mojocafe | or might there be a smaller one? | 21:19 |
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| AndrewFBlack | Khertan, You around | 21:28 |
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| millenomi | mojocafe: I gave Ubuntu eight gigs and IIRC it took around three | 21:34 |
| millenomi | with plenty of space for me to program in. | 21:34 |
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| keesj | re | 21:43 |
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| lcuk | hey keesj \o | 21:44 |
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| mojocafe | haha... i just developed the most minimalistic digital clock in text form...lol.... www.mojocafe.net (mojo id 26) | 21:56 |
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| mojocafe | twenty-fivtyseven | 21:57 |
| mojocafe | fifty i meant | 21:57 |
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| fnordianslip | mojocafe: cool | 21:58 |
| mojocafe | thanks but.... well, uncool if you want to know the exact time. but i was too lazy now to write one to sixty :D | 21:58 |
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| fnordianslip | i'm a fan of ddate myself | 21:58 |
| mojocafe | fnordian: what is ddate ? | 21:59 |
| crashanddie_ | mojocafe, that's pretty lame | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | You know you're tired when you type ddate and spend 30s trying to parse it | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | I thought I was OK until that point. | 21:59 |
| fnordianslip | try it on any linux box (perhaps excepting a NIT) | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | bash-3.1$ ddate | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Today is Boomtime, the 38th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3175 | 21:59 |
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| keesj | PUSH sounds like a fun project | 21:59 |
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| mojocafe | lol... i just wikied ddate.... shall i make a mojo out of it !? | 22:00 |
| mojocafe | well the problem is that a lot of people won't understand it.... but it sounds awesome. | 22:00 |
| fnordianslip | mojocafe: reckon so | 22:00 |
| SpeedEvil | If only wikipedias 'on this day' was a bit more populated. | 22:01 |
| mojocafe | i never heard about ddate before.... it sounds more important to me then the swatch internet time. | 22:01 |
| fnordianslip | oh it is | 22:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | You could set stuff to give you news headlines for 280 years ago, and your date to show as that. | 22:01 |
| fnordianslip | probably | 22:02 |
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| mojocafe | oh my gosh... i am running ubunto through a VB for the first time...... this is soooo exsiting ! | 22:05 |
| mojocafe | ubunto = ubuntu | 22:05 |
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| keesj | VB? | 22:07 |
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| penguinbait | exsiting = exciting ;) | 22:07 |
| mojocafe | kee_ virtualbox. | 22:08 |
| mojocafe | peng: thnx | 22:08 |
| keesj | on maemo? | 22:08 |
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| mojocafe | no on XP. | 22:08 |
| mojocafe | lol | 22:08 |
| mojocafe | sorry. i am a noob. | 22:08 |
| keesj | I see you are experiencing a linux enligthenment moment, enjoy it! | 22:10 |
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| mojocafe | ekeesj: nah, i allready know and love ubuntu. but i had it as "ubunto on a stick" so it never was very safe. i am just trying out for the first time how virtualbox works like so that i might be able to install the maemo sdk on it. | 22:12 |
| mojocafe | ... why the hell am i typing ubunto !???? geesus who is responsible for all these errors in the matrix nowadays !? | 22:13 |
| penguinbait | all those developers getting an early start in Amsterdam | 22:13 |
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| Stskeeps | more important, did you sign up and optionally request sponsorship? | 22:15 |
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| penguinbait | not me | 22:20 |
| bulfaiter | I'm installing an ubuntu server vm image from within esbox, but the maemo/maemo login/password doesn't work for me | 22:20 |
| lcuk | keesj, i presented liqbase playground stuff in the push presentation yesterday | 22:20 |
| AndrewFBlack | how long does it take for a package to show up in extras-dlevel | 22:20 |
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| lcuk | the stuff there was wicked smart! | 22:21 |
| lcuk | they had a rolodex | 22:21 |
| crashanddie_ | bulfaiter, check the keyboard layout | 22:21 |
| lcuk | that when you turned the hardware an onscreen card turned | 22:21 |
| bulfaiter | crashanddie_: ok, will try copy & pasting | 22:21 |
| bulfaiter | doesn't work, either | 22:22 |
| lcuk | AndrewFBlack, did you get your "passed autobuilder" mail | 22:22 |
| crashanddie_ | bulfaiter, ok, could you go into a bit more detail? You gave virtually no information, and just go "doesn't work" | 22:23 |
| bulfaiter | sorry | 22:23 |
| AndrewFBlack | lcuk, yeah | 22:23 |
| crashanddie_ | AndrewFBlack, ? | 22:23 |
| bulfaiter | Ok: I downloaded esbox for mac OS X | 22:23 |
| lcuk | its normally about an hour or so i think max. its just when its picked up and reindexed | 22:23 |
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| crashanddie_ | bulfaiter, from? version? | 22:23 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Did they also have an accellerometer activated butler? | 22:24 |
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| bulfaiter | from here: http://esbox.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/installation_product.html, full product archive: both prefinal common components and mac intelX support | 22:25 |
| AndrewFBlack | lcuk, cool | 22:25 |
| bulfaiter | after that, followed "installing and running" in the same webpage | 22:25 |
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| bulfaiter | and, to get the virtual machine, when here: http://esbox.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/virtual_machines.html#images | 22:25 |
| bulfaiter | so I did the File > New > Other > Maemo Installers > Maemo SDK Virtual Image step, and chose the Ubuntu Server version, instead of the Desktop one | 22:26 |
| lcuk | no, there was a speak n spell, an app that accepted text message of 80s artist, which then searched lastfm and transmitted to radio | 22:26 |
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| crashanddie_ | bulfaiter, any specific reason you went with server rather than desktop? | 22:27 |
| lcuk | and a cool viewmaster image creator | 22:27 |
| VDVsx | SpeedEvil, lcuk , http://www.psfk.com/2009/09/hacking-80s-gadgets-with-the-nokia-n900-push-n900-london-launch.html | 22:27 |
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| bulfaiter | crashanddie_: there were the two options, with the server one being less to download. The wizard stated that it would download everything necessary, and the desktop one seemed more focused on developing "from the inside", running the vm directly, instead of running eclipse on the host machine | 22:28 |
| lcuk | heh VDVsx scary i think thats my shadow :O | 22:28 |
| VDVsx | I also have some videos and photos of the hacks, will post them later ;) | 22:28 |
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| bulfaiter | should I try the other option? | 22:29 |
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| crashanddie_ | bulfaiter, when you type maemo in the username | 22:31 |
| crashanddie_ | bulfaiter, does it actually show up as "maemo"? | 22:31 |
| crashanddie_ | not something like ,qe,o ? | 22:31 |
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| bulfaiter | crashanddie_: I think is my fault. As the docs said esbox supported virtualbox, I thought it would be "automagically" support. The VM fields were defaulting to vmware | 22:33 |
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| bulfaiter | I'm going to try and change that | 22:33 |
| mojocafe | sorry for asking so strange things, but i have ubuntu now running under virtualbox. wich maemo sdk shall i install ? | 22:33 |
| mojocafe | and .... can i install the n8x0 AND the n900 sdk at the same time ? | 22:34 |
| bulfaiter | sorry for bothering, crashanddie_ :) | 22:34 |
| zerojay | Crash, give me your email address. | 22:35 |
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| mojocafe | crash@wallstreet.com | 22:35 |
| SpeedEvil | neat | 22:36 |
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| mojocafe | how can i install the scratchbox installer script without ANY knowledge ? when i click the link, he wants to open the .sh file with a text editor | 22:40 |
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| AndrewFBlack | if I'm having to recalibrate my screen on my n810 every hour or so is my screen starting to fail? | 22:46 |
| zerojay | Um, maybe. | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | AndrewFBlack: did you clean under the screen edges? | 22:47 |
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| AndrewFBlack | Stskeeps, no do I need to? | 22:47 |
| AndrewFBlack | looks dusty under there | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | AndrewFBlack: it has a tendancy to gather dust on the sides of the screen | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | and that disturbs the TS | 22:47 |
| zerojay | How do you clean it out? | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | small hairs, etc | 22:48 |
| AndrewFBlack | I'll try and if something to get under and clean it with | 22:48 |
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| Stskeeps | the easy answer is schematics and a torx, but hmm | 22:48 |
| AndrewFBlack | is cover only held on by the two torx on top or do i have ot tear it apart osme more? | 22:50 |
| AndrewFBlack | btw i mean top back of screen | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | go see the service manuals, it should make that part more clear >P | 22:51 |
| AndrewFBlack | I tried some canned air for now maybe that will help | 22:52 |
| AndrewFBlack | if this screen goes bad I'm back ot my 770 lol | 22:52 |
| * AndrewFBlack sits waiting to see his new theme show up in extras-dlevel | 22:53 | |
| mojocafe | how the hack shall dumb idiots like me learn to develop for maemo if i never terminaled and this link simply reminds me of my good ol' DOS days.... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8241 | 22:58 |
| mojocafe | ain't there an easier way to install the tools ? | 22:58 |
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| Stskeeps | mojocafe: there's tools like esbox and other tools | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide | 23:00 |
| melmoth | mojocafe: there used to be an already prepare vmware image ready available somewhere. | 23:00 |
| melmoth | but it s not like it s complicated to prepare the env, it s just boring :) | 23:01 |
| mojocafe | sts: is esbox maemo 5 only ? | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | mm, it may be maemo 4 too | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/ | 23:01 |
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| mojocafe | i do not have and realy know the eclipse IDE ... is it like aptana ? | 23:02 |
| melmoth | dont know, i never used eclipse. | 23:02 |
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| Stskeeps | aptana is based on eclipse yeah | 23:02 |
| mojocafe | mmmmh. i am realy too dumb for this. let me read the link u send me.... | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | you basically want to make an app you can click and it loads a certain url with flash on it? | 23:04 |
| mojocafe | sts. yep that's it. but i also want it to run fullscreen. | 23:04 |
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| mojocafe | ubuntu is making some updates. i think i will try to make the step by step installation from the page i posted here a few lines ago. | 23:05 |
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| dmz | howdy y'all, anyone have any suggestions on waht would cause n810 to stop being able to connect to network (wifi)? it was working and wifi is working for other laptops but not nokia! :( | 23:10 |
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| dmz | i see it associating but not doing dhcp requests | 23:13 |
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| javispedro | btw, the n900 does not support eap-ttls+pap yet, doesn't it? | 23:16 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 23:16 |
| javispedro | (the bug says _no_, but just in case someone had common sense :P ) | 23:17 |
| * kirma notes that technical reference manual and other manuals for equivalent-to-n900 power management chip are available -> people are free to fry their devices eventually :o | 23:18 | |
| kirma | and TRM is only 925 pages ;) | 23:19 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd_n800: o/ | 23:23 |
| wazd_n800 | Stskeeps, \m/ :D | 23:23 |
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| wazd_n800 | can anybody explain what's Nokia Push? | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_n800: hackaday for n900? | 23:27 |
| wazd_n800 | Is it any crazy showcase idea or just useful one?) | 23:28 |
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| javispedro | I'd guess crazy. | 23:28 |
| javispedro | specially because of the "connect to anything" part. | 23:29 |
| wazd_n800 | javispedro, cool :) | 23:29 |
| * javispedro proposes n900 activating, via serial cable, the blender that will blend the n900 itself. | 23:29 | |
| lcuk | whilst videoing itself and sending a distress sms | 23:29 |
| javispedro | then create a series of "Will it blend... BY ITSELF??" youtube videos | 23:29 |
| lcuk | hey javispedro \o | 23:30 |
| javispedro | hi lcuk | 23:30 |
| lcuk | wazd_n800, the push presentation was cool, some really trippy hacks | 23:30 |
| wazd_n800 | I have some cool showcase ideas btw :) | 23:31 |
| lcuk | did you see liqflow in action | 23:31 |
| wazd_n800 | lcuk, awesome :) | 23:31 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 | 23:31 |
| * lbt wonders about a titanium N900 in "will it blend?" | 23:31 | |
| lcuk | will it survive | 23:31 |
| wazd_n800 | lcuk, yeah, if the flow is networked in real time then it's very nice) | 23:31 |
| lbt | running liqflow to the beat | 23:31 |
| lbt | and getting very queasy watching the big screen controlled by a blending N900 | 23:32 |
| lcuk | yeah well the lib for udp connections exists and ive got a wicked idea | 23:32 |
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| javispedro | wow multiscreen liqflow | 23:32 |
| lcuk | javispedro :D | 23:33 |
| lcuk | it was more than the flow - we were jamming and drumming on the desk | 23:33 |
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| lcuk | the throbbing response was the coolest part :D | 23:33 |
| wazd_n800 | I have a real multiuser interaction idea for Nokia Stores, we're gonna win this contest :) | 23:33 |
| wazd_n800 | lcuk: yeah, that's nice too :) | 23:34 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.willitblend.com/suggestions.aspx I submitted the n900 - we need more suggestions | 23:34 |
| javispedro | curiosity: what did you put in "Why?" field? | 23:35 |
| wazd_n800 | damn, I have a goddam cool idea for this Push stuff! | 23:35 |
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| crashanddie_ | lcuk, it was indeed one of the coolest things I've seen in quite a while | 23:36 |
| javispedro | wazd: does it consist in weird ugly cables around, weak and/or cold solders, and a hand-made electrocuting the first unsuspecting user who touches it? | 23:36 |
| javispedro | if it does not, it doesn't have any chance ;) | 23:37 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, the accelerometer doesn't have a digital compass in it, does it? | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: something along the lines of 'The nokia n900 is the most interesting phone to come along in a long while - but the vital question that has been missing from all reviews so far is 'will it blend' ? | 23:38 |
| javispedro | :P :) | 23:38 |
| lcuk | crashanddie_, dunno, would need to look | 23:38 |
| javispedro | I guess no digital compass, it would've been announced by now | 23:38 |
| wazd_n800 | javispedro, get out of my head! :D | 23:39 |
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| javispedro | *hand-made connectors :) | 23:39 |
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| * javispedro imagines next youtube hit: "Will a N900 blend itself while inside a blender inside a microwave owen in space?" | 23:46 | |
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| wazd | javispedro: in Saturn atmosphere :D | 23:47 |
| javispedro | crazy people | 23:48 |
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| * javispedro today freed 20MiB of rootfs memory just by doing "dpkg -l | grep ^rc | cut -f4 -d" " | xargs dpkg --purge" | 23:49 | |
| javispedro | don't try that at home, since it came off my head (aka untrusted source) | 23:50 |
| wazd | I think we can use liqbase for my hack aswell :) | 23:50 |
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| wazd | any coders want to participate in action? :) | 23:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | A USB controlled robot arm. | 23:55 |
| SpeedEvil | You log into the N900 from a remote webserver, and using the camera from the phone peering out of the blender navigate the arm to the 'blend' button | 23:55 |
| javispedro | now THAT makes it interesting ;) | 23:56 |
| crashanddie_ | guys | 23:56 |
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| crashanddie_ | that blender joke has outlived itself | 23:56 |
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| javispedro | what joke? it was my best idea for the push contest! :( | 23:56 |
| crashanddie_ | what contest? | 23:57 |
| javispedro | http://blogs.nokia.com/pushn900/ | 23:58 |
| javispedro | "Hacking 80's Gadgets with the Nokia N900" | 23:58 |
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