IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-08-21

VDVsxX-Fade, sorry for the spam, bad habit introduced by others :(00:00
mikkov_mikkov: I have a package, but I can't upload it00:00
mikkov_X-Fade00:00
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mikkov_X-Fade: previous upload seems to be in queue, so no need to upload again, it seems00:03
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X-Fademikkov_: Yes, Ed copied them back in the queue.00:10
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AStormI wonder if nokia will include better earphones and iPhone-compatible 4-pole jack00:12
AStormeven those iRivier-class Cresyns are many leagues better than what nokia gave00:12
javispedroah, people....00:13
AStormI suspect they could arrange something00:13
javispedro"MAriokart psp 28-30 fps all the time at frameskip 1" and he's impressed, like if he was not forcing the emu to make it or die trying.00:13
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AStormframeskip 1 is 15 fps, duh00:13
javispedroit's 30 on the emu they're using.00:13
AStormlol00:14
AStormthat's no skip00:14
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javispedroit is, the ntsc snes is 60fps.00:14
AStormah, right00:14
AStormso it's nice00:14
AStormon LCD, there will be no diff anyway00:14
javispedroso it's doing exactly as it told the emu to do, and is using that as some kind of benchmark.00:14
johnsqmodern consoles have problems doing such frame rates.00:14
javispedroit's no really comparable.00:15
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javispedroon the emu side, the blanking interrupt occurs 1/60, end of story.00:15
javispedrothat does not mean the game updates the screen each frame00:15
AStormbut many other things are tied to vsync00:16
johnsqjavispedro: I know the problems, I have written an emulator long ago.00:16
AStorm:)00:16
AStormso framedrop cuts load on the video emu00:16
AStormpity even modern cpus can't run that dosbox with hq3x00:17
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AStormthose interpolators that look... epic00:18
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javispedrobut i meant that I don't know if all snes games update the screen at 60fps00:18
javispedromuch like modern games.00:18
AStormeven if they don't, the emu has to check the framebuffer00:18
johnsqjavispedro: normal scrolling is done by hardware with full rate00:18
AStormscale and push it to the screen00:18
AStormyeah, that can be simply halved too00:19
javispedrojohnsq, true.00:19
javispedroi'm trying to understand why I get exactly the same performance than on the gp2x, even though the n8x0 has a bit better proc.00:20
AStorma bit better than what?00:20
AStormthan n800? it does not.00:20
AStorm*it has not00:21
javispedrothe n8x0 has a better proc than the gp2x.00:21
javispedrothe gp2x being arm9 (don't remember the freqs right now)00:21
AStormthat's just insn set00:21
AStormnot necessarily performance00:21
johnsqjavispedro: you are using x11?00:21
AStormyou have to use Xv00:22
javispedrojohnsq, yep, but Xomap is taking only <10% toll.00:22
AStormI wonder though, why so few apps use Xv as output00:22
AStormnot even SDL has such an option00:22
lcukbecause its YUV00:23
AStorm(for sw rendering)00:23
lcukand a brainfuck00:23
johnsqjavispedro: you can try to use the framebuffer direct.00:23
AStormah, right00:23
AStormforgot about the BF aspects00:23
lcukwell, i think theres an rgb mode coming/in last update00:23
lcukframebuffer direct causes its own issues00:23
AStormlcuk, since you're so nice, could you write an SDL driver?00:23
AStormthen everyone would profit00:23
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javispedroSDL can already use XV00:24
javispedroif I output YUV00:24
javispedrojust like lcuk said ;)00:24
AStormit *can*?00:24
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javispedrothat's what I am reading, never tested tho.00:24
AStormhmmh00:24
AStormlcuk, I get the feeling you've wasted a lot of time coding liqbase :P00:25
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lcuk:)00:25
* lcuk started at SDL00:25
javispedrogoogle SDL_CreateYUVOverlay xv00:25
lcukcreating an overlay and having all the rendering functions from sdl work on it are two very different and large differences00:25
javispedroSDL has rendering functions ? ;)00:26
lcukblit..00:26
javispedroonly that I believe (unless you pull sdl_gfx)00:26
lcukbut, thats an intruiging proposition, because if i can use an sdl surface from SDL, it opens up the possiblity of a windows port :)00:26
lcukyou also have to load the media and convert to yuv00:27
AStormyeah00:27
javispedrodon't get too excited, maybe the maemo sdl is borked/too old/slow :P00:27
lcuki have what i need in xv00:27
lcukim not excited00:27
AStormlcuk, there are functions to do so there00:27
AStormand you can even plug in hardware conversion routines00:27
lcukcool00:27
VDVsxwow, another brand with a in-house Linux, o_000:28
AStormactually, sdl-image will autoconvert to surface format00:28
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AStormjavispedro, not unfixable, at least00:29
AStormffs, someone should write cairo sdl backend00:29
lcukwhy?00:29
AStormso that we can run gtk on framebuffer00:29
AStorm:P00:29
javispedroah, you mean a _cairo_ backend, not a sdl backend :P00:30
lcukyou can anyway00:30
lcukdirectfb00:30
javispedroi understood the other way firstly ;)00:30
lcukruns gtk00:30
AStormgtk directfb port is... ugh00:30
lcukthe best you are gonna get :)00:30
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* javispedro will just make a build without the SDL_UpdateRect call to confirm X11 is not the biggest bottleneck now.00:30
AStormand also, sdl port would allow (ab)use of opengl accel00:31
AStormbetter than the old glitz00:31
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lcukis there a linux filesystem snooper that i can turn on, store list of all opened files whilst running, then when i disable it, dump that list somewhere00:31
AStormyes00:32
AStorminotify-watch or tripwire00:32
javispedroor plain strace -e open?00:32
lcukok, ill reask :P (thanks)00:32
AStormactually, inotify will be better00:32
johnsqlcuk: I use strace00:32
lcukis there a maemo filesystem snooper that i can turn on, store list of all opened files whilst running, then when i disable it, dump that list somewhere00:32
javispedroinotify is on maemo, btw.00:32
lcukyeah :) i use it for somethings00:32
javispedroa few days ago I played with it, the file manager makes extensive use of it.00:32
lcuki'd forgotten that00:32
lcukbut i have to tell it a folder dont i00:32
AStormyes, it is.00:32
AStormand it works00:32
AStormyeah, /00:33
javispedrobut you want open files, even if they're just opened for readonly, never written00:33
javispedrodon't you ? :P00:33
lcukyeah00:33
lcukand i want it from everywhere00:33
AStormhurray for VFS00:33
lcuknot just a specific folder00:33
lcukmind you, i could ..00:33
AStormso you watch /00:34
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lcukohhh, it does subfolders too00:34
* lcuk learns something new00:34
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javispedrobut inotify fires events for opened files?00:35
javispedroor just modified?00:35
* javispedro shuts the mouth. (IN_OPEN and IN_CLOSE )00:35
lcukhttp://mediatomb.cc/doxygen/inotify-nosys_8h.html00:36
lcuknow, to write something that uses those and tracks them00:37
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* javispedro remembers he can't see the framerate if he disables video output :P00:39
AStormjavispedro, both00:40
AStormit depends what you request00:40
javispedroyep, yep, already rtfm'd :P00:40
AStormah.00:40
AStormlcuk, there's a command line app with a text output00:41
AStormwhat was it called...00:41
AStormjust dumps the events in text format00:41
AStormif you're lazy and know python, python-inotify is available (in almost recent version) on the tablet00:42
AStormit's like 8 lines to use it00:42
AStormand just dump the events to text00:42
AStorm(this older version doesn't have loop method, so you use the *_events ones)00:44
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lbt.log now have SmartQ Firmware extractor (in a few lines of perl)00:45
javispedrothe SDL_UpdateRect call costs 1fps in average.00:45
lbtoops00:45
AStormcompared to what?00:47
AStormpure Xv?00:47
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javispedrono SDL_UpdateRect.00:47
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AStormheh, no updaterect = no drawing00:47
javispedrothus no XPutImage, thus no copying of the framebuffer.00:48
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javispedro*to the framebuffer.00:48
johnsqjavispedro: you shouldn't need to do updateRect, you should use shared memory00:48
AStormX11 is slow, yes00:48
johnsqAStorm: X11 isn't slow, its the developers00:48
AStormyeah, actually, omapfb devs00:49
javispedrobut Xomap isn't the root cause of all slowness in the world.00:49
AStormfriggin implement exa00:49
AStormwith softupdates00:49
javispedro1fps is hardly noticeable.00:49
AStormit is if it's 25 fps vs 24 fps00:50
lcukno, thats not the breakpoint surely00:50
johnsqjavispedro: have you disabled sound?00:50
AStorm15 vs 14 is even more visible00:50
lcukits when you are really struggling for frames00:50
lcukive noticed users can happily live with 20fps00:51
lcukyeah00:51
javispedrojohnsq, yep, I did both "benchmarks" (they aren't) without00:51
lbtdoes inotify work for files in /sys ?00:51
lcukInotify monitoring of directories is not recursive: to monitor subdirectories under a directory, additional watches must be created.00:52
lcukbah00:52
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AStormlbt, yes00:52
AStormlcuk, *but* there's a way to do it00:53
lcuklbt, could be dangerous00:53
lcukbut also nice way to watch for cpu changes :O00:53
AStormyou make a walk to set the watches00:53
AStormthen grab the new dirs too00:53
lcukbut that becomes a new watch and doesnt that need its own select()/thread prcessing00:54
AStormno.00:54
AStormthere's one select, since there's only one inotify file00:55
AStormas opposed to dnotify, which required more selects/threads00:55
lcukcool00:55
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lcukive solved it an alternative way :)00:59
lcukjust remove the files i want to see are used and grep the error log :)00:59
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AStormharhar00:59
AStormevil way00:59
javispedrooh, just confirming SDL _should_ use XShm if avail.01:01
javispedrohttp://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/libsdl1.2-1.2.8/src/video/x11/SDL_x11image.c#5301:01
javispedroalways wanted to check01:02
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lbtAStorm: ta01:16
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divide_by_zeroI am trying to make a gstreamer filter... does anybody know how can I control the latency? Is there a way to set the buffer sizes?...05:02
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Macerok!05:15
Macerit's done05:15
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Maceranybody around?05:19
Macer.considering i spend a lot of time in the terminal this was unsat.05:21
Macerwow. "unsat" haha05:21
Macerthat was the first time i ever saw that outside the military :)05:21
divide_by_zerozup05:26
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Macerhm05:27
Maceri can't seem to get xmodmap to work correctly with the Fn key :(05:27
Macerthe only thing working is =05:30
Macer:)05:30
Macerfn +05:30
Macerargh05:30
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* Macer starts to rip his hair out05:40
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b-man16~seen xnt1405:44
Macercan someone here please help me with xmodmap on an n810?05:45
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Maceri am trying to use the deblet xmodmap file to get it working05:45
Macerand so far all i get is / for Fn ?05:45
Macerheh05:45
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Macerblah :(05:53
Macerguess nobody is around05:53
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Macerdamn there are only 2 things holding me up05:58
Macercant get the proper .Xmodmap05:59
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Macerand no sound05:59
Macerblah05:59
* b-man16 misses his tablet :(06:00
Macerheh06:01
Macerget a new one06:01
Macer;)06:01
b-man16i'm planning on getting a Pandora :)06:01
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Macerhahaha06:02
Macerlol!!@#!06:02
Macerdid you preorder it a year ago?06:02
b-man16no :P - but there are still some avalable for order06:03
Macerlies06:04
Macerwell. touch books actually started to find their way into people's hands06:04
Macerso anything is possible06:05
* b-man16 wonders why PAndoras arn't mass-production devices....06:05
Macerthey aren't?06:06
Macer:)06:06
Maceri thought they were supposed to be an actual device06:06
Macerbut they never came out a year ago06:06
Macerwhen they were supposed to06:06
b-man16theay release only 4000 of them per year06:07
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Macerwow really?06:07
b-man16it's kinda crazy :P06:07
b-man16yup06:07
Maceri didn't know there were any out there06:08
Macerheh06:08
Macermaybe they just don't like china :)06:08
b-man16xD06:08
Macerand solder them together themselves in the garage?06:08
Macer!!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "media-video/mplayer" have been masked.06:08
Macerwtf06:08
Maceri don't know what is blocking this06:08
b-man16theay hire private companys to manufacture their devices06:08
b-man16(in the UK) xD06:09
Maceryeah. most do06:09
Macerlike touch book is made by some company in CA06:09
Macerwhere they mass produce it06:10
Macerwell. most small businesses do i suppose :)06:10
b-man16indeed :)06:10
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b-man16Macer: playing with Gentoo on your tablet? :)06:14
Maceryeah06:16
Macertrying to get the damn kb to work in X06:16
b-man16ah06:16
* b-man16 tryed using Gentoo on his tablet, but could never net it to work properly :(06:17
b-man16*get06:17
b-man16the furthest i got with it was console xD06:18
b-man16wich was useless because i had no hw kb06:19
Macerheh06:20
Macerwell. you can chroot in maemo and get X set up06:20
Maceron an n80006:20
Maceri suppose? :)06:20
b-man16i've tryed, and it's a verry slow process06:21
* b-man16 had to use 356mb of swap to get portage to be usable from maemo xD06:21
Macerheh06:22
Macerthey kb is fucking with my emotions06:22
Macerit works but no Fn key to get the symbols/numbers06:23
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Macerahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!06:23
Macer:)06:23
b-man16xD06:24
Maceri don't know how the mer guys did it06:24
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b-man16the alll around system setup in gentoo is slightly diffrent from a debain-based system i believe06:26
* b-man16 needs to go - school night XP06:27
b-man16c ya later ;)06:27
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Macerok. seroiusly. where is everybody when you need them? :)06:33
Maceri guess i will work more on it tomorow06:33
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Luke-JrMacer: Maemo did it with a hack to X.org's core07:18
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Luke-JrMacer: basically, the problem is simple:07:19
Luke-Jrthe Fn key is key code 634 or something07:19
Luke-JrX11 uses a byte to xmit keypresses07:19
Luke-Jra byte can only store 0-25507:20
Luke-JrFn is out of this range07:20
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mecaveatsHello!08:50
mecaveatsDoes maemo emulator support bluetooth?08:50
johnxpretty sure that would be a no08:51
mecaveatsHmm...Is it  a good project to do as a university project?08:51
johnxgetting bluetooth working inside the emulator?08:52
mecaveatsYup08:52
mecaveatsAlso allowing bluetooth networking between two instances of emulator?08:52
johnxuhm...you should probably try and talk to Nokia about that one08:52
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mecaveatsI want to contribute to community :-)08:53
johnxfirst you need to look a bit more closely at exactly how the "emulator" works. it's not exactly a full "system" emulator in the strictest sense08:55
johnxyou're talking about the fremantle beta SDK I assume?08:56
mecaveatsya08:58
mecaveatsok, I will look at it.08:58
Luke-Jrqemu?08:58
mecaveatsmaemo emulator uses Qemu na?09:00
Luke-Jrwell, johnx said not a real emu, so I thought maybe a chroot+Xnest09:00
Luke-Jranyhow, it'd be a N8x0 emulator, not a Maemo emulator :þ09:01
mecaveatsSo does it support bluetooth?09:01
Luke-Jrdunno, sorry09:01
tigertscratchbox?09:03
Luke-Jrmecaveats: honestly, I think even better would be an open source firmware for the Bluetooth ;)09:03
tigertit is not really a "device emulator"09:04
Luke-Jrbut that might go along with an emulator09:04
Luke-Jrtigert: qemu is09:04
tigertit lets you run arm binaries with qemu09:04
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tigertqemu is, yeah, at least sbox stuff doesnt let you use bluetooth and such because those are in your host system09:04
tigertI guess it might be possible to make it work somehow, but the benefits of debugging are kinda interesting if you are not sure if the problem is in your application code or in the emulator layer :)09:05
mecaveatsActually, I want to emulate a "non-existing" Bluetooth.09:05
johnxmecaveats, there's two ways to use qemu, as a full "system" emulator where it runs a linux kernel on up and a "user mode" emulator where it translates binaries so you can chroot into a distro for a foreign arch09:05
tigertwhen you try to debug something09:05
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lbtmecaveats: to emulate bluetooth wouldn't you need to provide something like a kernel driver as used in VMs for virtual ethernet drivers?09:11
Luke-Jr09:12
meboredExactly. But I also need to emulate the lower two layers.09:12
meboredThe baseband and the radio layer.09:12
meboredAnd the stack will sit on top of them.09:12
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lbtI think you'd get more meaningful detail at #bluez (or whatever or mailing list)09:14
lbtit sounds like a very significant project...09:14
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Luke-Jrum09:17
Luke-Jrlooking at qemu src, I think Bluetooth is already being emulated to some degree09:17
johnxbut it depends on whether you're using qemu "the system emulator" or qemu "the user mode emulator"09:18
Luke-Jrobviously09:18
meboredJohnx, I agree.09:18
meboredBut it looks more like only pass through is supported.09:18
johnxand scratchbox/maemoSDK is the latter09:18
meboredSo unless you have the hardware.09:18
meboredYou cant really use bluetooth.09:18
meboredIt is basically a bridge to the hardware on host machine.09:19
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slonopotamus_weird. trying to write() to mtd, but get hangs and (wd?) reboot in several seconds. any ideas how to figure out what's going on?09:21
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tigerthmm09:49
tigertthis "iriverter" converter is kinda nice09:49
tigertlets see how the video it spits out looks like09:49
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pupnik_heh heh heh.  You Nokia guys are so excited about rx-51 you been talkin ...10:31
pupnik_http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-rx51-n900-en.shtml   review, market analysis10:31
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pupnik_hmm 'attitude' looks interesting10:33
Stskeepsold? :P10:33
Stskeepsand attitude is jaffa's app10:34
pupnik_ahh.  :)  see!  there you go!10:34
pupnik_nice 'share' feature on image viewer10:35
pupnik_i wonder if gpu accelerates blurring of background or does it dynamically.  gotta wait a bit for video i guess.10:36
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pupnik_whoever does these freemantle icons deserves a pat on the back.10:38
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JaffaMorning, all10:45
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Jaffapupnik_: Yeah, Attitude is a false horizon/spirit level using the accelerometers.10:45
johnxmmm, spirits10:46
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tigertJaffa: url?10:46
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pupnik_just absorbing the look and feel ...10:47
Jaffatigert: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30493 and http://maemo.org/packages/view/attitude/10:50
pupnik_it's a great idea to reduce color saturation in backgrounds and borders, leave10:50
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pupnik_it for the active elements10:50
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pupnik_i'm betting rx-51 brings-on a lot more developers10:55
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tigerthmm10:58
tigertwhy is there no easy way to add repositories btw?10:59
tigertI found this page that listed all packages in fremantle extras10:59
tigertbut there was no .install link..?!10:59
tigerthmm10:59
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pupnik_might be related to ovi efforts11:07
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Jaffatigert: AIUI, Fremantle is supposed to have extras "just enabable" in HAM; and http://maemo.org/packages/ is still under development by X-Fade, and having a .install for extras and extras-testing is probably on the todo list.11:08
tigertJaffa: ah right11:09
tigertso its still in progress, good11:09
RST38hmoo all11:10
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pupnik_RST38h: drnoksnes sound fixed - just switch output from esd to alsa :)11:11
RST38hso, how are rx-71 and rx-56 doing?=)11:11
RST38hpupnik: hmmm, maybe i should do it  in my emulators too...11:12
johnxwell, they're all beaten to market by the touchbook :>11:12
tigertJaffa: http://www.blueangelaviation.com/Garmin G600 front view.jpg11:12
RST38hjohnx: not until macer gets his :)11:13
tigertJaffa: if you run into excess of free time ;)11:13
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Jaffatigert: Wow11:15
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MacerLuke-Jr: can you put the patch on your repo?11:25
Maceror is this something that i can easily do?11:25
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Macerblah11:28
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Macerok11:37
Macerhow did  you guys get the fn key working in mer? :)11:37
Macerfor X11:37
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* Macer is stuck11:37
Macerdearlordsomeonehelp11:37
Macer:)11:37
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JaffaMacer: Ask on #mer?11:38
JaffaMacer: I think it's either a kernel or an X patch.11:38
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Maceri am pretty sure it's an X patch11:40
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Stskeepswb timeless_mbp11:51
timeless_mbphi11:51
timeless_mbpi need help :)11:51
timeless_mbpi'm trying to write up my maemo summit presentation11:52
Stskeepsmm?11:52
* Stskeeps curses the fact he has two presentations at summit somewhat11:53
t_s_osheesh, why oh why do app manager only report the download size of things available for install?! it makes it near impossible to tell if one actually have the space needed to install it...11:53
Stskeepsneed to write two presentations and excel in both11:53
timeless_mbphow do i link to a user profile from the wiki?11:55
Stskeepsfull link i guess, i usually use [url descriptive text]11:55
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* Stskeeps checks airport bus times12:02
* timeless_mbp grumbles12:08
timeless_mbpcan someone please help me use wiki.maemo.org?12:09
Stskeepswhat do you need?12:09
timeless_mbphelp with basic wiki markup, but i think i got it12:10
timeless_mbpok... right, i need a summary12:11
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Stskeepssummary?12:13
lbthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet12:13
lbttimeless_mbp: when you're editing, just under the edit box by 'Show Changes' is 'Editing Help'   it's got that link in... I refer to it a fair bit12:14
timeless_mbpStskeeps: for my presentation12:15
timeless_mbplbt: thanks12:15
timeless_mbpok, i've posted my thingy :)12:26
ryoohkimaemo talk says "database error" for thism url http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=313135&postcount=108112:26
ryoohkinever mond12:26
VDVsxtimeless_mbp, about your submission: friday is the Nokia day of the summit, you should talk with Peter if you want your talk on that day, we (content committee) are only responsible for the community days of the summit(saturday and sunday)  :)12:26
ryoohkinever mind12:26
timeless_mbpVDVsx: yeah, i need to find peter12:27
timeless_mbpwhich is hard12:27
timeless_mbppeter/qgil have schedules that are entirely incompatible w/ my own12:27
timeless_mbpi've been trying to catch quim for about 2 weeks now12:27
VDVsxtimeless_mbp, chase him :P12:28
timeless_mbphe's in meetings12:28
timeless_mbpor not physically on site12:28
timeless_mbpand i'm exhausted12:28
timeless_mbpchasing people is hard work12:28
VDVsxhe usually reply fast to mail :)12:28
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: talk sounds interesting :)12:29
timeless_mbpgood, now i just have to write it monday and present it tuesday or so12:29
VDVsxtimeless_mbp, np anyway, there's some slots on Sunday12:29
timeless_mbp(i'm going to need to get approval for pretty much the entire talk)12:29
timeless_mbpVDVsx: there are about 2 slots12:29
VDVsxsome slots in the plataform dev track will be probably filled with App dev talks, due to the lack of Plataform dev submissions, let's ee12:32
Stskeepsthat's really the problem of long tail of contributions projects.. limited amount of people has enough knowledge to do a talk about their whole area they contribute to12:33
timeless_mbpthe structure is really a mess12:34
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timeless_mbpsticking me into app dev feels wrong12:34
timeless_mbpbut sticking me into plat is also wrong12:34
Stskeepsbrb lunch12:34
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VDVsxtimeless_mbp, fixed the MicroB link in your submission :)12:38
timeless_mbpthanks12:38
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Andy80VDVsx, how is the submissions queue proceding :) ?12:50
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VDVsxAndy80, stopped :(, some still on holidays12:51
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javispedromorning13:00
javispedropupnik_, the sound issue is a esd weirdness with non 44100Hz rates13:01
javispedroI just tried setting it to 11025 and it sounded awful, while alsa still sounded nearly perfect.13:01
javispedroeither way since 44100 is too costly, alsa is it :) thanks!13:02
pupnik_ah ty13:02
pupnik_didn't know that13:02
javispedroalso, yesterday I did two idiotic things: say that no SNES games use sampled music (there are a few), AND, compile your build with -Os instead of -O213:05
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Andy80VDVsx, it's a pity we don't have a full schedule yet :( maybe this can influence tha fact we have so few registered people and only 1 month and half left?13:09
VDVsxdon't think so13:09
glassjavispedro: don't the games that use sampled music most have special chips in carts for them?13:10
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glassat least i think that was some reasoning behind why some sf2 versions cost 100e+(converted to euros)13:11
Andy80VDVsx, well... lot of people will come anyway, but I think that other people want a full and interesting schedule before deciding to come or not... don't you think?13:12
javispedroglass, I don't even know which games those are :) but AFAIK there's no reason for them to use any special extra chip for audio (other than extra ROM).13:12
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VDVsxAndy80, Andy80, well, even if we decided everything right now with a 'yes', some spots will remain empty, and we prefer to wait a bit more and have more quality in the schedule13:15
VDVsxand we can't do it now, anyway :(13:15
VDVsxdon't worry the schedule will be very good, a lot of good talk will come ;)13:16
Andy80VDVsx, that's another problem that is worring me a bit :(13:16
VDVsxwhy ?13:17
Andy80I mean... we have interesting submissions for now13:17
VDVsxdon't want quality talk13:17
Andy80but we miss more13:17
Andy80(Ii'm agreeing with you, let me finish :D )13:17
Andy80I want both quality and numbers :)13:18
VDVsxpeople are very busy right now polishing Fremantle, don't have time to submit talks :P13:18
Andy80the thing that worries me is: why we still have lots of empty spot? why people doesn't send their submissions?13:18
VDVsxby the end of the next week we will only have a few few spots empty :)13:19
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Andy80VDVsx, the end of next week :) ?13:20
VDVsxthere's 19 talks right now in the queue :)13:21
Andy80VDVsx, I don't think people working on Fremantle will go on holidays so early ;)13:21
Andy80ah okok :)13:21
Andy80anyway... as far as I know... there are a lot of talks from people working on Fremantle...not going to say which one, but they're a lot :)13:22
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tigertI was planning on doing a hackfest on ui work13:28
tigertbut lets see how the company thinks of it13:28
tigertwould be fun13:28
tigert(taking ideas and maybe existing apps and working on them to make them fit fremantle style and usability)13:29
tigertplus I could draw an icon for each completed one  in the end ;)13:29
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Jaffatigert: Sounds cool13:54
nomistigert: where can I apply?  :)13:55
* florian likes the idea too13:57
tigert:)14:01
tigertgood14:01
tigertlets hope others like it too14:01
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Stskeeps'lo wazd14:07
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wazdStskeeps: heya14:19
wazd'lo all :)14:19
RST38hheya all14:20
Stskeepstigert: if you want someone to bounce off ideas about ui work hackfest, wazd's the local artist :)14:20
RST38hmoo wazd14:20
tigert:)14:21
tigertart is not exactly same as user interface design, though those overlap a lot14:21
RST38htigert: BTW, why S60 icons in Maemo5 UI?14:22
Stskeepstigert: he does so much more than art though :) (andrew zhilin, you might have seen his work on planet)14:22
zerojayPCkulve: With the right files and gstreamer elements, do you think Media Player can do other kinds of files?14:23
JaffaRST38h: Presumably the internal concept is that they're "Nokia" icons, not "S60" icons :-/14:23
zerojayPCkulve: I'm thinking about adding .SID support to Media Player this weekend. :)14:23
wazdStskeeps: tigert: what's the buzz?14:24
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RST38hJaffa: The external perception is that they are trying to simulate S60 with Maemo, clumsily =)14:25
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pupnik_javispedro: the version i have doesn't generate the .frz.gz savegame info, but it generates .srm   Can i load game state with -o using the .srm file?  it complains about missing .frz.gz file and starts at beginning14:37
javispedro.srm is SRAM, not whole dump of ram14:37
roopethe ui hackfest would be a nice idea.14:37
javispedroit should load it always14:37
javispedrono matter what.14:37
pupnik_oh so i can save in-game14:37
javispedroyep14:38
pupnik_gotcha14:38
pupnik_you got writing working yet?14:38
RST38h.srm is a battery backed ram dump14:38
javispedroit should generate the .frz.gz btw, unless it's crashing instead of exiting, you see some "Freeze: file.frz.gz" in stdout?14:38
pupnik_no14:39
pupnik_wait14:39
pupnik_wtf now yes... Unfreeze: roms/Chrono_Trigger.frz.gz ok14:39
javispedrothat's loading, so it means the file exists.14:39
pupnik_it's on a vfat symlinked dir - is that ok?14:39
javispedroHope so; I use standard zlib gzopen and gzwrite.14:40
pupnik_ok on exit now i see Freeze: roms/Chrono_Trigger.frz.gz ok14:40
javispedrothere you have, the 100KiB-ish write wearing your flash ;)14:40
pupnik_truly this is the first time a .frz.gz was created14:41
pupnik_after i complained14:41
pupnik_do you has root on my n810?14:41
pupnik_127549 Aug 21 13:39 Chlono_Tligger.frz.g14:41
javispedroof course, I am already sending all your medical records to press ;)14:41
JaffaRST38h: I agree :)14:41
javispedrowell, that's funny. were you using -o previously?14:42
pupnik_i was not14:43
pupnik_so the writing only happens with -o?14:43
javispedroah, it only saves when -o is passed.14:43
pupnik_ok14:43
pupnik_makes sense14:43
javispedrolol14:43
javispedroi was going to say it makes no sense ;)14:43
javispedrobut it was a quick job to test future gui functionality14:43
pupnik_well it combines two things with one flag14:43
pupnik_which is just fine imo14:44
pupnik_but maybe bad style14:44
javispedrothere are some very bad things in the cmd line parsing right now14:44
javispedroe.g. non .smc roms fail.14:45
javispedroeven tho snes9x is fully capable of opening them.14:45
javispedro(so just rename them for the moment)14:45
pupnik_btw the mode7 in some of these games runs fast enough to be fluid-ish14:45
RST38hJust optimize it in assembly14:45
javispedroi've been reading gp2x forums and seems mario kart is indeed a heavyweight game14:45
RST38hNot that there is any hope for the result...14:46
javispedroRST38h, for now i'm just rewriting the C so that it uses less variables14:46
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RST38hjavis: But this has most likely been done before you...14:46
javispedroyep, by the PSP version.14:47
RST38hah14:47
javispedrohowever, they use PSP functions for rendering tiles14:47
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javispedrobut I am getting some ideas either way14:47
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pupnik_software evolution ftw14:48
* RST38h tried rewriting GBA display drivers in ARm assembly recently14:49
javispedroup so far I've gotten it up to 24 from 16 fps (5 of it being just switching to -O2 from -Os)14:49
javispedro(-O3, btw, performs same as -Os but with an unsanely large binary)14:49
RST38hDid not get any speedup =( But found that the only thing the speed depends on is the number of memory accesses per pixel14:49
RST38hjavis: How do you do color conversion?14:49
RST38hfrom 15bpp SNES to 16bpp Nokia I mean?14:50
javispedroRST38h, :#define BUILD_PIXEL2_RGB565(R,G,B) (((int) (R) << 11) | ((int) (G) << 5) | (int) (B))14:51
javispedroprobably says nothing, I did not touch that DrPocketSNES part.14:51
RST38hno no no14:52
tigertJaffa: you should make a level rule app from Attitude :)14:53
RST38hthis builds Nokia pixel from components14:53
RST38hbut where do you get the components for it?14:53
javispedroI need to read more code for that :)14:54
Jaffatigert: You mean show a bubble rather than earth/sky? (Kinda planned)14:54
tigertJaffa: http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/2009/04/stanley-iphone-level.jpg < this is the iphone app :)14:54
javispedroPPU.CGDATA [i] & 0x1f14:55
javispedrohum14:55
tigertJaffa: that iphone app is really useful when fixing a shelf to the wall14:55
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tigertsince the phone would be in your pocket, while the level rule would be in the garage :)14:55
javispedroRST38h: red = PPU.CGDATA [i] & 0x1f  green = (PPU.CGDATA [i] >> 5) & 0x1f blue = (PPU.CGDATA [i] >> 10) & 0x1f14:55
tigertand its accurate enough anyway for such use14:55
javispedrothe emu seems to then multiply them by some constant in order to "fix brightness".14:55
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Jaffatigert: Attitude or the iPhone? I've heard there's a) noise I need to average and b) some kind of callibration needed on RX-5114:56
tigertJaffa: the concept14:56
javispedro(it multiplies them using a fixed table lookup)14:56
tigerttalking about the idea in general14:56
RST38hjavis: Oh14:56
RST38hjavis: You have got your improvement right there14:57
Jaffatigert: Yeah, agreed.14:57
RST38hjavis: write an assembly inline function that converts i => PPU.CGData[i] -> Nokia 565 pixel directly14:57
javispedroit does not do this for every pixel.14:58
RST38hjavis: Screw the fixed table lookup14:58
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RST38hjavis: Is it using a palette then?14:58
javispedroyep14:58
RST38hah ok14:58
javispedroor so It seems14:58
javispedrohum14:58
javispedrosetting paletted SDL output results in funny colors. I don't remember If it worked originally...14:59
tigerthttp://www.switcheasy.com/products/ThumbTacks/ThumbTacks.php < totally offtopic, but this is so cute :D15:00
javispedroah, sorry. No, it didn't work. Tile rendering uses a palette, but then there's all those blends and transparencies the SNES can do which need 15 bit color.15:00
pupnik_i am running palletted mode for a NES emu btw... kind of a pita15:00
RST38hgentlemen, you do all understand that the NIT has no paletted mode natively?15:02
RST38hSo whatever you enable in SDL will still be simulated, at unknown additional performance cost15:02
javispedroyes yes :) it was a bit faster because the famous GFX "bottleneck" function needs to do half the writes15:03
javispedrobut only around +4fps, that's about it.15:03
tigertJaffa: accelerometers are fun15:04
tigertJaffa: I like the sports tracker on my s60 phone, it uses accelerometers to record steps15:05
tigertthere is also a dedicated step counter app15:05
javispedrobasically, the Mode7 bottleneck is a nearly complete rasterizer, z-buffer included. it had so many variables that the first time I tried to rewrite in asm I run out of registers (even tho I merged 2 char and 3 bool variables in one register)15:05
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RST38hHehe, iPhone nutcases attack Murtazin en masse15:06
RST38h"This geek shit is no iphone"15:06
javispedroit has 3 nested loops, line -> polygon(tile) -> pixel15:06
RST38hjavis: you only need limited z buffer there, for playfields15:07
RST38hjavis: And no, tile != polygon15:07
JaffaRST38h: Any particularly funny URLs to threads?15:08
javispedroRST38h, not even if I just made that mental association so I could understand it a bit better? ;P15:09
pupnik_i.e. a tile can't be 'slanted' wrt viewer15:09
pupnik_that mode7 trick asidde..15:10
RST38hJaffa: It is in Russian, and I am sure you have read it all before15:10
lcuktigert, that stanley spirit level, how sensitive is it15:10
RST38hJaffa: "No wow factor, S60 sucks because of no wow and maemo is also no wow, etc"15:10
lcukand how repid is the response?15:11
RST38hjavis: It would be a wrong mental association15:11
RST38hjavis: You really do not want to make it15:11
RST38hjavis: First of all, tiles cannot intersect :)15:12
tigertlcuk: I have not used it - its a iphone app15:12
tigertdont have one15:12
tigertjust knew it existed15:12
tigertapparently it is very popular15:12
lcuklooks the part, ive not tried it, anyone who has knows how sensitive it is?15:13
pupnik_oh, is there a phone-less omap3 tablet pre-announced?15:16
lcuki dunno, is there?15:17
RST38hno15:17
RST38hBut there are two device names to wait on15:17
RST38hRX-71 and RX-56 mentioned by Murtazin15:17
lcuko_O another15:17
javispedroI don't know if they're going to be no-phones.15:18
RST38hDo notice that the current Maemo cannot operate in resolutions different from 800x48015:18
RST38hOk, it can *almost* operate at different resolutions but not quite, so whatever Nokia releases right away will still have 800x480, no more and ABSOLUTELY no less15:18
javispedro^^^ agreed, making it anything different would kill some extras applications.15:19
javispedro(and even most nokia ones)15:19
RST38hit will even kill some Nokia apps15:19
javispedrospecially now that in fremantle dialogs are now fullscreen too.15:20
lcukRST38h, doesnt that bode not so well for using qt to share between high def maemo and lowdef s6015:20
javispedro(fullscreen width)15:20
* RST38h curses at the mention of fremantle dialogs15:20
lcukor is qt the answer to that problem15:20
RST38hlcuk: We have not see Qt based Maemo yet15:20
RST38hlcuk: Have not seen Qt based Symbian too, so who knows15:20
lcukno, but app  wise15:20
RST38hQt is not the answer to flexible resolution problem15:20
RST38hYou simply have to design your apps with flexible layout in mind, that's all15:21
RST38hIt is what all web designers know they have to do but none of them do =)15:21
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* qwerty12_N810 hopes 800x480 remains the standard resolution and Nokia doesn't go off on a range of resolutions, like they did with S6015:21
RST38hqwerty: Do you know how much effort it takes Nokia to support multiple resolutions in S60? ;)15:22
RST38hqwerty: E70 has 416x352 display for a reason ;))15:22
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javispedroon the other side, a 800x480 Maemo netbook...  (but I doubt we're going to see a Maemo netbook eitherway, much like they're not going a non-WindowsCE PNA)15:22
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Nope, but I presume that not having a reason to make the effort in the first place would be easier...15:23
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wazdmaemo is a touchscreen OS15:24
RST38hqwerty: yes, but they are past that point15:24
RST38hqwerty: they can't make the current S60 flexible, afaik15:24
wazdI'd rather see tablet-pc like formfactor for it15:24
RST38hhave to adapt it to each new resolution15:24
qwerty12_N810Ah well, they've already shrunk the screen size to make the Rover a phone so they may not mess with the resolution anyway...15:25
RST38hqwerty: but they will have to mess with resolutions for two reasons:15:26
RST38hqwerty: 1) if they do decide on producing Maeom based netbooks/MIDs15:26
RST38hqwerty: 2) if they decide to produce lower-specced cheaper Maemophones15:26
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qwerty12_N810True... I strongly dislike the idea of incompatibilities between Maemo devices, considering that a decent job was done with N8x0 (Although, in fairness, they did use same hardware)15:28
qwerty12_N810(for the most part)15:28
pupnik_i like 800x48015:31
pupnik_for handhelds15:31
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RST38hwazd: I think we should translate this: http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2009/birulki-28.shtml15:35
RST38hwazd: And post to talk just to collect [and summarily execute by suicide] all the iphone folk15:35
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pupnik_i really like this frameskip actually15:38
pupnik_music timing is also working great15:39
pupnik_millenial fair is always a tough timing test for music15:40
RST38hChronotrigger?15:41
pupnik_ya15:41
RST38hIt should have bird cries, if I remember correctly15:41
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pupnik_very playable, except for some situations where timing is critical15:47
pupnik_then the low fps makes it difficult15:47
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pupnik_will rx51 tv out be usable as another desktop?15:49
pupnik_wonder how one could send SDL output to it15:49
RST38h"American women are preparing for protests this weekend against laws which allow men to remove their shirts in public, but treat women who do the same as guilty of misdemeanour."15:52
RST38hAnyone willing to predict the outcome of this one? =)15:52
Stskeepsboobs?15:52
RST38hpupnik: Judging from other Nokia phones, TV out will be a copy of the screen15:52
RST38hSts: No, you do not know Americans well enough ;)15:53
Stskeepsbreastfeeding women15:53
Stskeeps?15:53
Stskeeps:P15:53
pupnik_hmm would prefer using it for media control on video playback15:53
RST38hSts: The correct answer - "Men will be prohibited from removing their shirts in public"15:53
Stskeepsah yes15:53
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RST38hpupnik: Dunno about OMAP3, but OMAP2 does not work this way15:54
Stskeepsthere's some degree of likelyhood dualscreen would be possible through hack though15:54
RST38hAnyways, back to the suffering15:54
RST38hSts: I can't think how, given that there is only one DMA running15:55
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RepMaceblah15:57
RepMacei need to get some type of kb going on this n810 in X15:58
RepMaceeither that or run fluxbox in mer15:58
RepMace:)15:58
RepMacesu8w shouldnt be hard to get going15:59
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RepMacedamnit16:05
RepMacedidnt run the build in a screen so im stuck watching top16:05
RepMacealthough i think it is going on a 10 hour thing now16:06
AStormhey, how do I flash the kernel from the device itself?16:07
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pupnik_howto smwh16:12
pupnik_oprofile AStorm ?16:12
AStormno, mer16:15
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AStormbut it's the same way16:16
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johnsqHi16:17
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tigertAStorm: you don't?16:20
AStormthere must be a way16:20
AStorminitfs is flashable from the device16:20
AStormso must be the kernel16:20
AStormnow, how do I do this?16:20
Stskeepsthere is. ssu uses one.16:20
johnsqnice idea for a virus16:21
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qwerty12_N810fiasco-flasher -h16:21
AStormoh :)16:21
AStormqwerty12++16:22
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RepMacecan you use multiple kernels on the device?16:26
RepMacelike you would with grub or lilo?16:27
RepMacewould thatbe a bootmenu option?16:27
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AStormno.16:29
javispedrowhen bootmenu appears, the kernel is already chosen.16:29
RepMaceoh16:29
AStormthat would be a fiasco option, but there seems to be no way to get at its config16:29
RepMacethat kind of sucks16:29
AStormnot that much16:30
javispedrokexec would be some nice workaround, but I don't know how's that going16:30
RepMaceso the kernel boots before bootmenu huh?16:30
AStormthere's kexec... if it works16:30
AStormyes16:30
RepMacedamn16:30
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javispedrothe Nitdroid author was working in kexec support afaik, but I don't know the progress16:31
qwerty12_N810javispedro: solca got it working somehow... I think he did something to the kexec'ed kernel to delay its loading16:31
RepMacei was going to start trying to make kernels in gentoo16:31
javispedrohe got it working? that's good news.16:31
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RepMaceso you can use multiple kernels now?16:32
RepMaceslonopotamus: !16:32
RepMacefind me the mer patch for using Fn in X16:33
RepMace:)16:33
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RepMacei'm stumped16:33
RepMaceand put it in your gentoo repo16:33
RepMacelol16:33
RepMacei was about to just overwrite the X dir with the mer one but i dont think that would work out too well16:34
johnsqRepMace: I used a patched evdev.16:34
RepMacejohnsq: from where?16:35
johnsqRepMace: I'm searching16:35
slonopotamus-.-16:35
RepMaceStskeeps said to look there but i couldnt find one16:35
RepMacei was going to install mer just to get it haha16:35
RepMaceslonopotamus: need to get that on your site ;)16:36
RepMacehaha16:36
RepMaceit is making my hair fall out not being able to use numbers and symbols in x with the qwerty16:36
johnsqRepMace: you can write a evdev patch, just map the key to another16:37
RepMacethat is what Luke-Jr did for the console16:37
RepMacebut if i can find a patched evdev with a working Fn key16:38
RepMacethat would be even better16:38
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johnsqRepMace: the correct place, where to write a kernel driver, i have already found some code, but never the time to add it to the kernel.16:39
AStormdo it!16:41
AStorm:)16:41
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Macerjohnsq: yeah, i saw that16:42
Macerthere are a couple places you can edit to patch the kernel to get it working16:43
Macerbut i dont have the sdk installed anywhere16:43
Macerand from what Stskeeps told me16:43
Macerbuilding a kernel in gentoo on the device probably wont work16:43
Macer"it uses a specific toolchain"16:44
Maceror something like that16:44
Maceri think i am just going to have to suck it up and set up the sdk to build kernels and stuff16:44
Macerblah16:44
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Macerjohnsq: if you ever build a working kernel for it instead of a workaround can you share?16:46
Macer(if you beat me to it)16:46
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johnsqMacer: I have now booted my n810, but the current card hasn't the patched evdev. still searching16:49
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mgedminhttp://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-rx51-n900-en.shtml mentions a kickstand, but I can't see one in the photos16:51
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doc|homemgedmin: see around the camera piece?16:55
doc|homethere's a recess to insert a finger nail to pull out the stand16:56
mgedmininteresting16:56
mgedminI'd have never guessed16:56
doc|homeit'd be really nice if there was an equivalent to itunes for the n900, like, songbird contributions or something16:57
doc|homeonly less crap than itunes :)16:57
* mgedmin <-- has never seen itunes16:57
doc|homeI have an ipod touch that came free with a macbook pro. Very very nice integration16:57
jeremiahRythmbox is pretty nice.16:57
mgedminwell, actually, I saw a screenshot in a blog somewhere where they talked about the invisible 7-pixel grab margin about the separator line16:57
doc|homejeremiah: do they integrate?16:58
* mgedmin <-- has never used itunes16:58
jeremiahKinda looks like iTunes16:58
mgedminrythmbox and banshee are kind okay, but kinda crap too16:58
qwerty12_N810Someone built Quasar which certainly looks like iTunes... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=31400616:58
jeremiahdoc|home: Integrate how?16:58
doc|homejeremiah: sure, but it's more about the integration than the look16:58
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jeremiahOn debian Rythmbox sees my iPod if that is what you mean16:58
doc|homejeremiah: app store, podcast database, syncing with mail accounts. That sort of thing16:58
jeremiahdoc|home: Ah. There is Magnatune, and another service provided by default.16:59
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* mgedmin wonders if anybody worked on an fbreader port to freemantle16:59
doc|homeI mean, it'd be nice if the client would sync evolution accounts to the n900 and the like16:59
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jeremiahI haven't expolored the other things you mention, as I doubt debian is going to support Apple's proprietary protocols16:59
doc|homeyeah, I'm just talking about the n90017:00
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jeremiahI am not sure if modest supports the Evolution full suite, but obviously it does the usual email tricks, imap and pop17:01
jeremiah(Modest is the Maemo mail client)17:01
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doc|homeyeah, but it's the integration of the desktop and the touch I like a lot17:04
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doc|homeI don't need to recreate the setup, I connect via usb, sync, and everything's copied over, podcasts, songs, email accounts, contacts, all in one click17:04
lcukcould your mum do the same (easily and reproducably without you there?)17:13
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kulvezerojayPC: yes, it should support other files as well, but only to some extent. I.e. most likely you can't open them from the player itself (the files must be in the playlist). And SIDs might want some extra options (change tune) that the Media Player doesn't provide17:16
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Myrttilcuk: could your grandad do it?17:17
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Myrttilcuk: http://www.geekosophical.net/?p=26517:21
lcukMyrtti, i got a call from my dad the other day asking me how to printout a contact sheet of 20 photos each at passport size17:21
lcukbecause he wanted a single passport photo17:21
lcukand didnt want to waste paper17:21
lcukhe saw throwing the rest of the paper away as wastage17:22
lcukand it probably runs in the family, so no - my grandad couldnt17:22
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zpolhola17:23
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lcukand my mum is also it technical bod at her firm :)17:23
Myrttiit's just one of my pet peeves. One of my acquaintances just recently got a baby and she (IIRC) hacks KDE quite extensively - so the "could your mother do it" line of thinking feels a bit weird - as having giving birth to a child would somehow null and void all her technical skills to default none17:23
lcukis "could ($person.age>50) do it" better?17:24
Myrttimm17:25
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lcuklol, i know theres rarities17:26
lcukbut its the principle of non technies being able to setup and use  computer systems17:26
Myrttichrist I miss my glasses17:26
lcukwhere have they gone?17:26
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Myrttisomewhere in a forest in middle of Finland17:27
lcukeek17:28
lcukyou got none, or contacts now?17:28
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Myrttigot none until Specsavers delivers17:29
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lcukare you sure you went to specsavers? :D17:30
lcuk"hi, i need new glasses"    "you're telling me, this is the butchers"17:30
MyrttiI'm not blind, I just get a headache ;-)17:30
lcuk:(17:30
lcuki get headaches when i get new specs17:30
lcuki hate the change in focus17:30
lcukand its always always worse17:30
Myrttimine have been same for ten years17:31
mgedminI used to get headaches pretty often and started visiting all the doctors I could think of17:31
lcuksince my eyes adapt and refocus, i might get them to understrength the next pair so when i refocus to them they get a bit better17:31
mgedminthe eye doctor tried to convince me you can't possibly get headaches from bad eyesight...17:31
Myrttimgedmin: lol17:31
lcukdoh!17:31
mgedminyears later I finally figured out that eating is, apparently, a necessary activity to sustain life17:32
mgedminno food = headache for me17:32
Myrttisnerk17:32
lcukmissing a meal  causes  headache  for me17:32
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lcuknormally assoc. with not drinking either17:32
fiferboyI get acid reflux whe I haven't eaten17:32
lcukthats qt repeating on you17:33
MyrttiI just get cold hands17:33
fiferboyNo, it started before I began working on Qt.  Could be bird watching, though...17:33
lcukheh17:34
lcukMyrtti, ? cold hands17:34
Myrtticold hands.17:34
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lcukperfect excuse to start hitting duncan!17:34
Myrttiyup17:34
lcuk"*whack*" i need to warm my hands up"17:34
lcukwho else sits for hours and gets one cold mousing arm17:35
lbtmy mousing arm gets bed sores17:35
lcukheh17:35
lbtbut if you don't wipe up the coffee it moves easier17:36
lcukoh i dont leave coffee to be spilt near arm, i put my cup precariously on the side of the computer17:36
lcukthat way if it spills, the motherboard catches it all17:36
lbtI suppose it could warm your ARM up that way?17:37
fiferboyMotherboards aren't all that absorbant - it is really the RAM that sucks it up17:37
lcukyeah, the tiny spaces around and under the surface mounted chips does wonders.  capilliary action17:38
lbttalking of pets.... what's brown and sticky and comes in yards?17:38
lcuk? i dunno lol17:38
lbta measuring stick17:38
mgedminmine is yellow and comes in meters17:38
mgedminwhat's small and yellow and very, very dangerous?17:39
lcuk*groan*17:39
* lbt hasn't got kids so this is new to him17:39
lbt?17:39
* toggles_w gives lbt a little goat17:39
mgedmina canary with the root password17:39
lcuk:D haha.  wait, what?17:40
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slonopotamus-.-17:41
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fiferboyHmm, how do I get a package that uses debhelper 7 to work with debhelper 5?17:44
fiferboyIt is choking on dh_clean, saying that 5 is the highest compatibility level...17:45
qwerty12_N810debian/compat contains the compatibility number it uses at least. have fun sorting the rest :)17:46
fiferboyThanks qwerty, I _just_ found that!17:46
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fiferboyHas there been any word about when we might start hearing about sponsorship?17:49
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divide_by_zerohi. how do I properly uninstall the SDK installation?...18:17
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: you like fremantle? :O18:18
qwerty12_N810Actually seeing pictures can boost ones' happiness towards something...18:20
qwerty12_N810I still think Harmattan will kick ass, but in the meantime...18:20
Stskeepshehe, i just remembered negativity towards it :)18:21
Stskeepsthings do make more sense now18:21
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pupnik_javis is hero aswesom18:40
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javispedroheh pupnik, thanks :)18:40
javispedroI am looking at the whole mess of snes9x emulators heritage18:41
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javispedrothere are nearly 4 families of renderers: the PocketSNES family (PocketSNES, DrPocketSNES -- accurate but not the fastest), the OpenSnes9x one (SquidgeSNES, snes9xTYL for PSP -- faster), the SNESAdvance one (fastest but pretty much unusable for anything non-GBA), and the upstream snes9x one.18:43
javispedroalso, LJP (usable on tablets with GVM) is from the OpenSnes9x family.18:46
johnsqjavispedro: take snes9x and port it18:47
fiferboysnes9x was very usable on the Zaurus18:47
javispedrojohnsq, already done by pupnik_. slower than drpocketsnes.18:47
javispedro(take care OpenSnes9x != snes9x, the former's maintaned by yoyofr for the PSP only AFAIK).18:49
* qwerty12_N810 actually considers javispedro's DrNokSNES to be fully usable18:49
javispedroalso, snes4iphone is from the drpocketsnes family.18:49
* javispedro dislikes roaming around the gp2x and the like boards, they're hard to navigate, they like to show videos instead of source code, and every license is more complicated than the previous one.18:50
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Stskeepsjavispedro: maemo is bliss at times18:59
javispedroalso from the DrPocketSNES family I've found AntSNES, made by Summeli (present here but currently away -- if you read this, thanks! btw, your source tarball seems to be missing symb_main.cpp)18:59
javispedroStskeeps, true. I like it :)19:00
pupnik_heh19:00
pupnik_cmdline settable audio rate! :)19:01
javispedrook, but you'll be deceived -- everything else is slow :)19:03
javispedrooh, slashdot just got the rover story19:04
Stskeepsthere goes openmoko..19:04
javispedroand android.19:04
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javispedro"Users can download flashing software from Nokia, and patches can be submitted at the Maemo site." what a weird way to end the story.19:05
javispedro(they actually link to both tablets-dev and bugzilla.19:06
javispedro)19:06
Stskeepshehe19:07
qwerty12_N810Did they call it "Freemantle"? ;)19:07
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javispedroI haven't read that yet, but I've already seen comments criticising the gui19:08
javispedro(and someone already asking "is it a phone?")19:08
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javispedroastroturf tag. :P19:09
JaffaAny time /. covers something I'm involved in, it's very very annoying.19:11
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javispedroJaffa: totally true. on the bright side, knowing half the opinions are idiotic relieves me when they discuss things I don't have a clue about.19:12
javispedro(e.g "the world/the economy is gonna end tomorrow" and the like)19:12
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Jaffajavispedro: True19:13
* Jaffa fiddles with the moderation levels: 39 full, 173 hidden. Perfect.19:13
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* javispedro would like to tell the anonymous coward author of the comment: "x11, gtk, all the bloat. only thing missing is pulseaudio and we have the complete bloated platform" the truth about pulseaudio in maemo 5.19:16
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JaffaIt's amazing that with the comments set like I've got them, it's *still* more insightful than -users ;-)19:18
lcukjaffa, to replicate some areas of tmo, you need to set moderation modifiers:  troll +5, interesting -5, insightful+1019:19
* lcuk thinks the slashdot comment engine and moderation methodology is one of the smartest things ever19:19
JaffaJust a shame about its comment*ers*? ;-)19:20
javispedrowhat I like about the slashdot moderation is that it seems to prevent meritocracies, instead being a proper middle point between the "funnycracy" digg is and your average -devel mailing list.19:21
javispedroso it's still easy to read, but not digg.19:22
lcuklol jaffa19:22
lcukdigg have changed default now to order comments by popularity19:22
lcukyou cannot have a conversation19:22
javispedrodigg has done real bad things these days ... (one of them being the diggbar)19:23
lcuknext best commenting engine is the chans19:23
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Macerblah19:30
benno2hi, I tried to install the maemo diablo sdk to a ubuntu 8.04 box. it works I compiled a sample c app with DIABLO_ARMEL target but I cannot to fakeroot apt-get update , it says temorary name resolution failure although networking is up and running (I can wget the stuff where apt-get fails). any ideas ?19:31
mgedmindigg doesn't have threads?19:33
Jaffabenno2: check your /etc/resolv.conf in scratchbox19:33
mgedminbenno2: IIRC there used to be two different resolv.conf files in scratchbox: one in /etc, the other in /scratchbox/etc19:34
mgedminfixing them both (making them look the same as /etc/resolv.conf outside scratchbox) tends to help19:34
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benno2mgedmin, yes I checked and both files are identical. it seems that scatchbox copies the file /etc/resolv.conf to /scratchbox/etc but it still does not work19:35
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mgedminyou could check /etc/nsswitch.conf too19:35
mgedminif it mentions mdns, that's not going to work inside scratchbox19:36
mgedminI mean the nsswitch.conf inside scratchbox, not the one in the host system19:36
mgedminit's confusing19:36
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mgedminscratchbox chroots into /scratchbox/users/yourusername/targets/nameoftarget or someplace like that19:36
wazdguys, anyoneform greece? :)19:36
mgedminyou want to edit the config files in  /scratchbox/users/yourusername/targets/nameoftarget/etc, not the ones in your host system19:36
wazdoh, crap, I mean anyone from greece? :)19:37
benno2mgedmin, this is the error I get:  is this normal that qemu complains ?  http://pastebin.ca/153786019:37
mgedmininteresting qemu message; haven't seen it before19:37
wazdOr maybe someone can advise me good Vodaphone PaYG contract with cheap sms? :)19:38
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benno2mgedmin, thanks it works. I just logged into scratchbox and did vi /etc/resolv.conf and indeed I had only a line with nameserver 127.0.0.119:38
benno2mgedmin, now I copied my 2 DNS over and apt-get update executed successfully19:39
mgedminbenno2: actually that may be good19:39
mgedminyou don't want to be editing that file every time you connect to a different network19:39
mgedminin the host system sudo apt-get install dnsmasq19:39
benno2BTW can the maemo5 sdk be installed along the maemo 4 sdk ?19:39
mgedminand then your host os will proxy dns requests for your scratchbox19:39
benno2mgedmin, thanks for the tip about dnsmasq.19:40
benno2about Qt4,  if I want to compile a Qt4 app. should I compile Qt4 from source in the maemo sdk or are there precompiled packages ? an apt-cache search qt did not return any result19:41
mgedminthere should be precompiled packages for qt somewhere (extras? extras-devel?), I think19:41
mgedminneither is not in your apt sources.list by default19:42
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mgedminfun: now I can't get apt-get inside scratchbox to do DNS resolution19:42
mgedminall resolv.conf's look legit19:42
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javispedromgedmin, aah, that's why I never had to edit resolv.conf, I have pdnsd.19:43
javispedroMakes sense to ship default resolv.conf that way, since the device uses dnsmasq19:43
mgedmininside scratchbox: getent hosts repository.maemo.org -> works; fakeroot apt-get update -> temporary failure in name resolution19:44
javispedroAFAIK: sbox uses /scractchbox/etc/resolv.conf for devkit binaries, and /scratchbox/users/$USER/targets/$TARGET/etc/resolv.conf for native/emulated binaries.19:44
javispedroapt-get is from devkit.19:45
mgedminduh19:45
mgedminmy /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is a dud that looks almost exactly like the real one19:45
mgedmin192.168.44.1 instead of 192.168.42.119:45
mgedminlemme set that to 127.0.0.119:45
* mgedmin should listen to his own advice19:46
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divide_by_zerozup. Has anyone ehre worked with the SDK+ inside a 32bit chroot environment?19:51
benno2mgedmin, what qemu should I select in sb-menu ? perhaps I selected the wrong one ? first I was using qemu-cvs-alpha but it was not executing my simple C app in the SDK so I used another and it worked19:51
mgedminbenno2: http://inz.fi/blog/2007/10/22/multi-target-development-for-maemo/ is what I used when I last set up my scratchboxs19:52
mgedminthank you, inz, for writing that post!19:52
mgedminI don't have the fremantle SDK installed yet19:53
* mgedmin should do that19:53
benno2mgedmin, what I did is:  sb-menu, setup target , DIABLO-ARMEL , compiler: cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm. then I select cputransp. then DONE. at that point it asks which qemu version I should chose.there are several. no idea which one is the recommended.19:55
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mgedminthe post I linked used qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb219:56
mgedminit seems to work19:56
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javispedrofwiw, sb-conf show DIABLO_ARMEL -> Compiler: cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm Devkits: debian-etch cputransp maemo3-tools perl CPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb219:57
benno2mgedmin, now I tried qemu-arm-cvs and I still get those qemu errors. not sure if they can be ignored though: http://pastebin.ca/153787519:58
* mgedmin <-- clueless19:59
benno2mgedmin, don't worry :) thanks for your tips.19:59
mgedminfwiw I use qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb2 *and* I don't get those qemu messages20:00
mgedminubuntu 9.04 on i68620:01
benno2mgedmin, ubuntu 8.04 here. perhaps it's something about the mmap minium address. I set it to 4096 as described in the maemo sdk install.txt20:02
mgedminI used 8.04 before20:02
mgedminI don't think mmap_min_addr is related at all20:02
proppyHi, I'm trying to run maemo 5 sdk for the first time, and I get this error20:10
proppy[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start20:10
proppybash: af-sb-init.sh: command not found20:10
proppywhat am I missing ?20:11
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proppyfound http://wiki.maemo.org/Q&A_-_SDK_and_Scratchbox#Why_do_I_get_.22command_not_found.22_even_though_I_follow_the_instructions_in_the_documentation.3F20:13
proppyis there anything I can try without install nokia-binaries ?20:13
qwerty12_N810No nokia-binaries, no GUI20:14
mgedminno GUI at all in fremantle's SDK?20:14
mgedminI find that hard to believe20:15
qwerty12_N810It won't start properly (if at all) unless nokia-binaries is installed20:15
mgedminaah20:15
mgedminthe comma meant "therefore", not "and"20:15
mgedminbit of a shame about that dependency on non-free sw :/20:16
proppyqwerty12_N810: thanks20:16
divide_by_zeroI want to create just a gst plugin for my N800, what is the best way?... can someone compile it for me? :]20:23
lcukwhat do i do with a library thats in debian, but as orig.tar.gz and a diff.tar.gz . i dont want to go muching about and repackaging it up and making change notes - a later one builds on my system and hsouldnt have any probs getting through autobuilder  but i want it available from extras.20:28
lcukdid i recall correctly seeing somewhere there was a debian promotion/request tool20:30
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mgedminlcuk: mud-builder20:46
mgedminI've been sort of detached from maemo developments lately, not sure if there's anything that supplanted it20:47
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lcukta mgedmin20:53
lcukill look into it20:53
lcukof course, the alternative is just to throw everything into the package i need20:53
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RST38hreEHLO21:15
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lcukRST38h, connection failed21:25
RST38hlcuk: Nokia. Connecting people.21:27
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lcuk:P protocol error then21:27
qwerty12_N810qwerty12. Terminating people. Goodbye RST38h.21:27
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RST38hReverting to UUCP.21:27
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keesjany pyside / python people around to explain me how to install a 2.6 python on sbox?21:41
keesjneve mind... http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/21:41
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RST38h21:59
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GAN800Fun times.22:16
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AStormhey22:21
AStormcould someone drop here a link to n900 specs?22:21
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AStormah btw, if I had to input chinese on n810,22:22
AStormhow would I do that?22:22
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dmzhowdy y'all, anyone have any suggestions on how i can debug an os2008 (n810) device DUN connection? I am using the same bluetooth with dialup on my linux laptop, but w/the maemo device it keeps failing.  do you know where it stores the details on the DUN modem/connection (bluetooth) settings? i'm more than happy to manually setup ppp and do it w/out the fancy network config option but i need it to work. btw i have verizon and it use to22:27
dmzwork perfectly w/my old at&t acct22:27
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Robot101look, the N900! http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-21-2009/0005081178&EDATE=22:29
Robot101ho ho ho ho22:29
Robot101*facepalm*22:29
javispedrothose chinese iphones are cool indeed :D22:30
qwerty12_N810Nokia's got some biig competition /s22:32
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GAN800I can'r wait until frank.wagner finds that one.22:35
AStormdmz, in gconf22:37
qwerty12_N810"Chinese firm to already release N900. Where is Nokia??!!"22:37
javispedrolol 371 comments in salsadot already22:37
AStormbut it's probably because you haven't paired properly22:37
AStormhey, I want N900 specs, not ones of some chinese lookalike22:37
javispedrothis N900 is going to sell like pancakes (yes pancakes)22:38
AStormmeh, no keyboard22:39
* AStorm likes his N810 keyboard22:39
* ShadowJK eats pancakes every thursday22:41
ShadowJKwith peasoup :/22:41
AStormfunny choice22:41
dmzAStorm, i can do file transfers via bluetooth, so it is paired ok; just when it tries dialup it doesn't work22:42
AStormdid you pick the operator correctly?22:43
dmzAStorm, yes there is only one verizon to choose22:44
dmzin fact I used the settings seen when "editing" the verizon config to get the phone # & userid i used on my debian laptop22:45
dmzis there any session log or details I can see "what" is failing?22:45
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cityLightsI read a pulse audio developer comment about the need to have the audio processing out of the kernel space22:48
cityLightswhat are the guidlines in the linux kernel , for what should be in the kernel and what is in user space?22:48
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GAN800Man, the idiots have invaded /. too.22:58
divide_by_zero?22:59
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MrGooseso the n900 looks nice23:09
MrGooseis it going to be a phone/23:09
MrGoose?23:09
mavhcyes23:10
mavhchopefully they make one that's not a phone23:10
MrGoosewhy are you hoping for that?23:10
mavhcfor some reason smartphones cost twice the price of tablets23:10
Macerplah23:11
MrGooseyeah but you dont have to carry around two objects23:11
Macerim going to install mer with fluxbox23:11
mavhcyeah, but I don't have to not use my tablet for fear of my phone battery dying23:11
divide_by_zeroI like to carry lots of objects, it fills the hole in my soul!...23:11
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Macerdoes openoffice run in mer?23:12
mavhca soul hole? why not fill it with a mole?23:13
MrGooseWell I hope the battery life wont be bad23:13
mavhcmole, foal, vole, GOAL!23:14
MrGoosehyperbole23:14
AStormMacer, no23:17
AStormit wouldn't fit in RAM anyway23:17
AStormabiword and gnumeric do23:17
AStormand probably koffice23:17
Macerheh23:18
Macerswap23:19
AStormno, it won't fit even with swap23:19
AStormunless you want your sd cards to fail23:20
divide_by_zeroeven if the Rover is a phone I'll keep carryng my phone, so I can talk to myself!...23:21
Macerhm23:22
Macerdoes abiword in mer priint?23:22
Maceror apps in mer in general?23:23
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Macerdo they have cups support?23:23
AStormlikely not23:27
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AStormbut it is possible23:27
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Macerseriously23:28
Macerfuck this tablet hackery bullshit23:28
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Maceri will just shove this piece of shiit into the car like i meant to23:29
Macerand look for a real device23:29
Macerthat can do basic shit like... print23:29
`0660_:)23:30
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Macerok well, it has been a blast23:34
ShadowJKeh, my E75 was same price as N810 and it's same kind of hw23:35
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Macerwell i have given up on this piece of shit tablet23:36
Maceri will look for something similar that isnt a piece of shit23:36
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florianShadowJK: hum well... i have both too and somehow the n810 has a little bit better screen, eh?!23:36
ShadowJKand e75 has a little bit more radios23:37
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MacerShadowJK: can it print23:37
Macer?23:37
ShadowJKI don't care23:37
AStormMacer, under mer printing works23:37
MacerAStorm: lol23:37
AStorm(because of ubuntu packages)23:37
ShadowJKmy printer doesn't speak anything sane anyway23:37
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MacerShadowJK: my n95 had bt printing23:38
ShadowJKhad? did it die with ota fw upgrade? :-)23:38
florianMacer: yes, its able to print... a little bit23:38
Macerno, i sold it23:38
Macerdont have att anymore23:39
AStormthe whole printing stuff is not done to save space23:39
AStormit's a rarely used feature23:39
florianand a lot of work to maintain23:39
Maceron a "portable computer" ?23:39
Macerlol23:39
AStormno. Internet Tablet.23:39
Macerhahahahaha23:40
florianMacer: get a vaio p23:40
AStormit's somewhere between a midlet and a cellphone23:40
ShadowJKN810 took me down this road that was the main road through the village I was going through... only issue was that it was the main road 50 years ago, and now it's barely fit for walking23:40
Macerand there is the typical maemo argument23:40
florianMacer: that's exactly what you need23:40
ShadowJKwas fun drive :-)23:40
Macervaio p?23:40
Macersame size?23:40
AStormMacer, if you really need printing, you can take Ubuntu or Mer23:41
AStormand put it on n81023:41
AStorm(or Debian)23:41
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AStormall of these support printing23:41
Maceri need a patched kernel23:41
Maceror X23:41
AStormMer is the future, though23:41
AStormwhy?23:41
Macerfor Fn key23:41
AStormMer supports X and Fn23:41
divide_by_zeroI bet CUPS works with  Android out-of-the-box23:41
AStormno patching is necessary23:41
AStormdivide_by_zero, nopes.23:42
AStorm:P23:42
pupnik_NeXT had a nice solution23:42
Macerok. let me install this23:42
AStormMacer, note - it's still alpha quality23:42
Maceri know23:43
AStormworks... mostly23:43
Macerlol, ive used it23:43
AStormI've a problem establishing bt dun connection with blueman23:43
AStormI'll try the old way with hardcoded rfcomm entries23:43
AStormbbl23:44
ShadowJKI'm taking my N810 with me alot more now that I've got a nicer network setup. When I leave home, my N810 automatically switches from wlan to edge/3g (via bt), and thanks to some openvpn setup, my public IP essentially doesn't change, and all IRC connections etc don't break :-)23:44
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pupnik_nic ejob ShadowJK23:54
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ShadowJKI wish there was a openvpn client for symbian :(23:57
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divide_by_zeroI bet Android phones wake up when you are sleeping, clean your dished, sweep the house, open the door to let the cat in, then comes back to wake you up to work in the morning. all this out-of-the-box and using only off-the-shelf components!23:59

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