IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-08-13

javispedrohi00:00
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jeremiah -c00:10
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woglindels00:11
javispedroexit00:11
jeremiahcd / rm -rf00:11
javispedroonce that focus stealing thing happened to me, and I typed "exit" into a pidgin window00:11
javispedromy friend replied "exit: Cannot exit"00:11
zerojay/nick test00:12
zerojayHeh00:12
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johnsqjeremiah: da fehlt ein ;00:15
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woglindejohnsq nö00:16
zerojayFinally going home.00:21
woglindehm seems golem.de tested the t91 with the wrong driver for the poulsbo00:21
johnsqwoglinde: too expensive, too unusable.00:24
woglindeyeah to expensive00:25
jeremiahjohnsq: Eh?00:25
woglindebut the poulsbo can play flash with outproblems00:25
jeremiahVad snackar du om?00:25
woglindehttp://edc.intel.com/Software/Downloads/IEGD/#download00:25
johnsqjeremiah: pc t91, ~ 450 euro, not usable outside, not usable keyboard, ...00:26
javispedro"Embedded" 120 MiB-ish graphics drivers.00:27
jeremiahjohnsq: Ah. I see.00:27
jeremiahMakes perfect sense.00:27
woglindejavispedro hehe its because of eclipse00:27
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woglindejohnsq and you cant replace the slow internal 16gb ssd00:28
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johnsqhow long last the battery?00:29
woglinde johnsq similiar to the others00:29
woglindeor longer becaus of the z atom with 1,3 ghz00:29
woglindeup to 7 hours00:30
woglindeI bet00:30
johnsqthat would be a plus point00:30
johnsqno only 3 1/2 hours, last side00:31
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woglindeuh00:31
woglindemy 901 can live up to 6 hours00:31
Mace_N8x0my aspire1 lasts 5hrs00:31
Mace_N8x0max00:31
Mace_N8x0of use00:32
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johnsqmy samsung q1 with big battery pack lasts ~8hours00:32
Mace_N8x0my vaporware touch book lasts 16 hrs00:32
zerojayN810 & mugen battery?00:32
Mace_N8x0hahaha00:32
woglindemacer when will you get it?00:33
woglindeare you on the first batch?00:33
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woglindejo florian00:36
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woglindewow iegd is now at xerver 1.500:39
RST38hMorrrre vuuuups00:39
johnsqis there a xserver which joins two computer displays?00:42
javispedrohttp://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ ?00:42
johnsqjavispedro: this more like x2x. I think about two n810 which have a joint display = window spans both displays00:43
pupnikjavispedro: i am not aware of what you do normally... besides this awesome thing.00:44
pupnikare you going to amsterdam?00:44
woglindepupnik?00:44
pupniki just wonder who this guy is00:44
woglindewhat awesome thing?00:44
javispedrothe snes emu I guess :P00:44
pupnikthe gp2x super nintendo emulator.  he did it sensibly.  not like what i tried.00:44
woglindeah okay00:45
pupnikor 'is doing'00:45
javispedroyou asked me yesterday if I remember well... it's early for me to tell00:45
woglindedoesnt run the emu on the n810?00:45
johnsqa good emulator would be another good use of the n810.00:46
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javispedroi'm starting my last academic year in a month, so it's gonna be fun00:48
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Proteousa good snes emulator on the n810 would be much improved if they keyboard and d-pad didn't suck for playing games.00:50
johnsqProteous: use a wii mote00:51
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javispedroi personally want a good super mario kart playing machine :D00:53
johnsqjavispedro: with multiplayer support00:54
woglindehm n810 with bluetooth controller00:54
javispedrojohnsq, plausible, code is there but disabled.00:54
RST38hjavis: Buy a Mini00:54
javispedroMini as in the car? You want me to get arrested ? ;)00:55
zerojayGet a used psp.00:55
woglindeget a pandora00:56
woglinde*duck and hide*00:56
RST38hjavis: Only if you drive Koopa off the road00:56
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* javispedro would buy a DS if he knew he'd use it for more than an hour.00:57
RST38hjavis: One word: Castlevania00:57
johnsqjavispedro: you can install linux on the nds00:57
javispedrolol it has SDL.00:57
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javispedrois osso-games-startup worth the effort?01:03
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pupnikgovernments are fucking satan01:32
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derfI hope he's enjoying it.01:32
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chxWORKS01:34
chxOn tablet01:34
chxRtcomm01:34
chxOh joy01:35
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woglindechx why not?01:36
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chxIt failed quite a few times01:37
javispedroas usual, the tablet battery fails middle flower cup01:38
woglindegood nite01:39
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pupnikok.  i am not renting anything for the maemo summit.  i will sleep in my car and donate the savings (200 EURO) to antiwar.com01:41
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pupnikand quim, i WAS the 100th to join the summit01:42
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pupnikyou know what rules?02:10
pupnikno maemo summits in USA02:10
javispedrolol :D02:10
pupnikno arrests, no stealing of laptops02:10
javispedroi'm looking at the whole snesadvance.dat thing02:11
javispedroseems they make "idle loops" shorter or things like that02:12
z4chhhow does maemo autostart daemons at boot? e.g. sshd?02:12
* javispedro thinks about the possiblity of replacing those idle loops with some invalid opcode trapped by the cpuemu and sleep()02:12
javispedro(like the mac emulator does)02:13
javispedroz4chh, sysvinit. like your desktop debian mostly.02:13
javispedro(in fremantle it is is replaced about upstartd which I know nothing about)02:13
javispedros/about/with/02:13
infobotjavispedro meant: (in fremantle it is is replaced with upstartd which I know nothing about)02:13
z4chhrofl @ the bot02:14
zerojayPCjavispedro: Yeah, it's mostly stuff like that.02:14
pupnikcool javispedro02:14
pupnikbut don't let cpu governor drop to low mhz :)02:14
javispedrodocumented here: http://www.snesadvance.org/files/txt/technotes.txt02:14
javispedrovery well written02:15
pupnikyep read it.  absorbed maybe 10%02:15
zerojayPCThe PSP version of SNES9x allowed you to use the snesadvance speedhacks as well and for the most part, they work great.02:15
pupniki am under the impression that the gp2x guys put in a lot of work to make snes9x run fast under ARM02:16
javispedroseems so, and according to their notes they've gotten it faster than what I currently get02:16
zerojayPCYeah, PSP has most games at 45-60fps.02:17
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javispedrowhich emu zerojay?02:17
javispedrooh, PSP is MIPS02:18
zerojayPCOne of the SNES9x ports.. can't remember the name offhand.02:19
zerojayPCI scrobble all the music I listen to.... and I go to the last.fm site for the first time in months and I have 20 or so friends requests.02:19
zerojayPCEvery single last one of them is from someone living in Germany.02:19
zerojayPCThat wouldn't be all that odd if I lived there but I'm Canadian.02:20
pupnikmy music friends tell me what to buy, and give me ftp and streams02:21
pupnikbut last.fm is kind of the new napster, isn't it02:22
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zerojayPCNah.02:22
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zerojayPCMainly about creating a profile and seeing what you listen to and getting recommendations. Also does streaming radio.02:23
ProteousI was attempting to hack a bluetooth keyboard into a NES controller but I couldn't come up with enough space for the keyboard circuit board and a battery pack that would fit in the controller body02:23
Proteoushave to make an external batterypack or something.02:24
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Proteoushmm, or make a bus powered version that connects via USB02:31
Proteousalthough a bluetooth one would be more usefull with other devices02:32
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Mace_N8x0hi02:45
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zerojayPCHey.02:46
Mace_N8x0zerojayPC, you might want to tell them the names list is broken too02:46
Mace_N8x0heh02:46
zerojayPCWhat's wrong with the names list?02:47
Mace_N8x0you cant msg ppl using the rtcom names list02:47
zerojayPCI almost always turn that off.02:47
zerojayPCYeah, I did notice that.02:47
Mace_N8x0nor can you scroll down02:47
zerojayPCI will.02:47
Mace_N8x0and click on someone02:47
zerojayPCI was able to scroll, but when you click on someone, it pops you back up to the top.02:47
Mace_N8x0because it just goes back to the top of the list02:47
Mace_N8x0yeah heh02:47
zerojayPCI'll enter them after I'm done with this one.02:47
Mace_N8x0other than those little things02:48
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Mace_N8x0this is pretty awesome02:48
zerojayPCGuess I should add myself to Bugsquad, huh?02:48
Mace_N8x0haha02:48
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zerojayPCYeah, RTCOMM is pretty great in general... just a lot of rough edges.02:48
Mace_N8x0you might ask02:48
Mace_N8x0that they add irc #s to the contact list02:49
Mace_N8x0so you dont have to go through ten things02:49
Mace_N8x0and using the irc net as the name instead of the nick would help too02:50
zerojayPCWell, telepathy-idle won't be a part of Fremantle anyways as far as I know, so... unless there's another RTCOMM release, it won't matter anyways. :/02:50
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Mace_N8x0:(02:50
zerojayPCBut yeah, I'll suggest them anyways.02:50
Mace_N8x0well, we can only hope they stick with maemo402:50
zerojayPCYou never know what may or may not be happening behind the curtain, so it's just better to report them anyways.02:50
Mace_N8x0otherwise im going to have to learn how to code haha02:51
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Robot101zerojayPC: we (Collabora) are planning to update the 3rd party telepathy backends for fremantle02:51
Mace_N8x0Robot101, are you ditching diablo? :)02:52
Mace_N8x0can you fix those things first haha02:52
zerojayPCRobot101: Are you going to be at Maemo Summit?02:52
Robot101zerojayPC: we'll probably send some people, yeah02:53
Robot101we should probably, er, plan that a bit more02:53
Robot101:)02:53
zerojayPCBecause if you are... and if I get sponsorship... I'm going to kiss you, sir.02:53
Mace_N8x0"Summit"02:53
Robot101we're kinda busy working on fremantle atm though :)02:53
* GeneralAntilles can never remember if it's one l or two. . . .02:53
Mace_N8x0sounds like a bunch of maemo ppl discussing nuclear proliferation02:53
GeneralAntillesMace_N8x0, who says we aren't?02:54
zerojayPCYes, Maemo with Quim Jong Il. :)02:54
Mace_N8x0hahaha02:54
Mace_N8x0if diablo isnt supported, we are launching!02:54
GeneralAntillesMace_N8x0, I could care less about Diablo.02:54
GeneralAntillesMer is important now.02:54
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Mace_N8x0hehe02:55
Mace_N8x0lies!02:55
zerojayPCGeneralAntilles: Any sort of official knighting needs to be done for me to join Bugsquad?02:55
* Mace_N8x0 shoves his n810 into a drawer next to his Atari Lynx02:55
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GeneralAntilleszerojayPC, stick your name on the Bugsquad wiki page, make sure you have editbugs and go for it.02:56
Robot101zerojayPC: I'd be more interested in pushing Empathy and Telepathy into Mer than working on diablo, yeah02:56
zerojayPCPretty sure I've had editbugs for a year or two already.. cool.02:56
zerojayPCRobot101: Makes sense to me.02:56
Robot101unfortunately we're pretty busy so our interns have been stolen onto other projects right now02:56
GeneralAntilleszerojayPC, triaging-streamlining comment templates are available on the Bugsquad pages.02:57
zerojayPCGeneralAntilles: Yep, I've already looked through them earlier.02:57
Mace_N8x0haha02:57
GeneralAntillesAlthough I never use them myself.02:57
Mace_N8x0not the slave......er......interns!02:57
Robot101Mace_N8x0: well we tend to put interns on community projects, and keep the paying work for full-time staff02:58
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lcukthat sounds like a good strategy Robot101 :)02:59
Robot101it has a slightly awkward side-effect of making our community stuff kinda unmaintained just after it gets good02:59
Mace_N8x0Robot101, well tell one of the interns to fix the bugs before you leave diablo :)02:59
lcukheh02:59
zerojayPCRobot101: Just hearing that you guys are working on telepathy for Fremantle has made my day. I hope that maybe the bugs I'm entering on some of the telepathy packages, IRC (idle) in particular, will be looked at.02:59
Robot101so we're pondering some other stuff like google-style 10% time, or accumulating days to work on R&D/community stuff03:00
zerojayPCBecause right now... idle is one bad little boy. :/03:00
Robot101(like you accumulate vacation)03:00
Mace_N8x0maybe nokia will do a 360 and have a fremantle for n8x003:00
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Robot101but this stuff is pretty tricky because it makes it harder to negotiate contracts03:01
Robot101oh yeah 2 days out of 10 this guy is going to be on vacation for one and hacking on some other shit for another, ok? :P03:01
GeneralAntillesMace_N8x0, there are a variety of reasons why that isn't feasible.03:01
GeneralAntillesThey've been rehashed and rehashed again.03:01
GeneralAntillesThat's why we have Mer instead.03:01
zerojayPCIs there anyone with a Fremantle device that can check something out for me real quick with the updated Media Player? Just checking to see if a bug still exists or not, very simple and quick.03:02
Mace_N8x0damnit03:02
Mace_N8x0i got a new debit card03:02
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Mace_N8x0and keep finding stuff that is auto paid getting declined because i forgot to change it03:03
Mace_N8x0like skype heh03:03
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GeneralAntillesMace_N8x0, yeah, same here. :\03:08
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Mace_N8x0ugh03:15
zerojayPCwtf... how long after I register on the site does it take to be added to participants on the Maemo Summit wiki page?03:15
Mace_N8x0and changing skype's is a pain03:15
GeneralAntilleszerojayPC, should be instant.03:16
GeneralAntillesCache issue?03:16
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zerojayPCI guess I'll resubmit then... hmm.03:17
Mace_N8x0there03:17
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Mace_N8x0now i just have to wait for the next screw up03:17
Mace_N8x0heh03:18
lcukarghhh03:18
lcuk ! [rejected]        master -> master (non-fast forward)03:18
lcukwtf did i do03:18
Mace_N8x0like when i walk into the gym and a giant red light flashes and a buzzer goes off03:18
lcuk(git push btw03:18
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Mace_N8x0with a DEADBEAT sign scrolling across03:18
Mace_N8x0:)03:19
lcukheh Mace_N8x003:19
lcukdid you get dpkg workin?03:19
zerojayPCActually... I might have found a bug in the submission process. Heh.03:19
Mace_N8x0still working on it03:19
Mace_N8x0i havent had much time the past cpl days03:19
Mace_N8x0and03:19
Mace_N8x0i had to start logging it because i was getting lost03:20
lcukyeah, its heavy going03:20
lcukthings just cascade03:20
Mace_N8x0so i started over 3 days ago and started logging the steps on tech.rancorous.net03:20
Mace_N8x0yeah03:20
Mace_N8x0fast too heh03:20
lcukyou start off with "i just need core-utils"03:20
Mace_N8x0hahaha03:20
Mace_N8x0yeah03:20
lcuk;)03:21
lcukits a slippery fucking slope03:21
lcukhttp://xkcd.com/456/03:21
Mace_N8x0more like "i need to make my own coreutils because the pkg sucks and breaks everything"03:21
Mace_N8x0haha03:21
Mace_N8x0using individual src pkgs03:21
Mace_N8x0one at a time03:22
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lcukwget http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/m4/m4-1.4.9.tar.gz03:22
lcukgzip -dc m4-1.4.9.tar.gz | tar xf -03:22
lcukcd m4-1.4.903:22
lcuk./configure03:22
lcukmake03:22
lcuklike that ...03:22
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Mace_N8x0i think when i start doing that i will call the article "the tangent"03:22
lcuki didnt realise the selection cursor in console was so good03:22
lcuki thought it was silly that it retained selection03:23
Mace_N8x0maybe that is what i will name the project03:23
Mace_N8x0Tangent03:23
lcukbut i see the greatness in it, especially combined with right mouse click03:23
Mace_N8x0hahaha03:23
Mace_N8x0because that is what it will feel like03:23
lcukheh yeah03:24
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javispedrothat's a good way to instantly slashdot any page03:33
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smackpotat.04:32
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gogolquick q: usb gender changer and usb keyboard...require external power or no?04:33
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smackpotatdepends on how much current your using whats hooked up and waht tablet04:34
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pupniktablet supplies a couple hundred milliamp, yes?04:34
pupnik800, 81004:34
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gogoli thought i read an n810 could do such a setup without external usb power04:35
smackpotati hooked up a 770 to 16mbflash and usesd a usb hub04:35
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smackpotatwhat are you connecting04:36
gogoli dont know yet, shopping :)04:36
smackpotatahhh04:37
gogolwant to find a small-ish keyboard to use with n81004:37
gogolnot bluetooth though, seems like a battery killer and probably more than i can afford04:37
smackpotatcan a wifi doggle be conected04:37
gogoli think people have done that? not sure04:38
gogolhttp://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&client=google-coop&cof=FORID%3A13%3BAH%3Aleft%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmaemo.org%2F%3BCX%3Amaemo%252Eorg%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Ftalk.maemo.org%2Fmaemo%2Fstyle%2Fimg%2Flogo.jpg%3BLH%3A58%3BLP%3A1%3BVLC%3A%23551a8b%3BGFNT%3A%23666666%3BDIV%3A%23cccccc%3B&adkw=AELymgUqFKWI8AGw3jPWZlO8VHt6JQ7LFmifKo4hfXncUpZvKP-hGVlJZbfNDdOu0yt3QgS2E5P2izMwEs6Gd7s5UNLYOpFBsD3ykF2wPFHnJEAKxjZnD04:38
gogolesamYYPTReMEXyNeK52hgQUVo1xIFQdzNLYgaq0Yt-_gKXO6dBKW2QhJ7EomCCz6DM6p7PCjRSPGwmcFHzgJjEq&boostcse=0&q=&btnG=Search&cx=002415088715645836938%3A6esxclqviui is what im using04:38
gogolholy shit04:38
gogol!04:38
* gogol needs a tinyurl04:39
gogolhttp://tinyurl.com/q7btxk04:39
smackpotatI'd think a keyboard wouldn't draw much power and you'd be ok. but thats a guess04:43
gogolim sure there's a thread on it, just have to find it ;_04:46
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smackpotati can't post to maemo talk is that my problem04:48
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gogol?04:48
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divide_by_zerodoes anyone change their user-agent string in the NIT browsers so that websites think you use iPhone or other more popular mobile devices, and present you a mobile version of the page?05:47
Luke-Jrdivide_by_zero: such websites are broken05:49
divide_by_zeroThe other day I made a script to filter the BBS RSS so its links take me to the "clean" version of their pages... I was wondering if I would be automatically sent tehre if they detected me as a mobile device05:50
divide_by_zeroBBC I mean05:50
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zerojayPCYeah, I can see why you'd need a clean version of the BBC pages: http://bit.ly/1an2Ni05:55
gogolso would something like this work with a USB gender changer on an n810? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=usb+mini+keyboard&hl=en&cid=5735096772581395978&sa=title#p05:57
divide_by_zerozerojayPC: yeah, must clean all that extra fat! :)06:01
gogolwithout external power? anyone?06:02
divide_by_zeroI've heard keyboards are OK... don't remember which thread06:04
divide_by_zeroI'm looking forward to try one myself, but i don't have the gender changer yet06:04
divide_by_zerogender changing has always creeped me out06:05
gogoli figure the computer industry could use more gender bending06:06
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gogoljesus bluetooth ones start at like 60 bucks.  re-dick-ulous06:08
gogoldivide_by_zero: you buy any accessories for your nokia gadgets06:09
divide_by_zeronope, I just bought it... It's a N800. I'm saving for a new memory card now.06:10
divide_by_zeromy nokia phone is a 1100 :)06:11
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gogoli got a data plan via t-mobile so i could use google voice and not pay for minutes, but my phone dies in two hours using bluetooth constantly... sigh.  i wonder what battery life will be like on the n900 (not like i'll EVER be able to afford it)06:13
Mace_N8x0do they call it an n900?06:14
Mace_N8x0hi06:14
* gogol doesnt know shit06:14
gogolthe rx-5106:14
gogol(?)06:14
Mace_N8x0i dont know, i was asking ;)06:15
divide_by_zero_we_ call it N900 ;)06:15
divide_by_zeroNokia doesn't call it anything, it doens't exist :D06:16
Mace_N8x0heh06:16
Mace_N8x0not at all huh?06:16
Mace_N8x0have they started making it?06:17
* Mace_N8x0 stares at the pandora06:17
gogolthey made one n900, just for me06:17
gogollooks a lot like a worn out n810, but its not06:17
gogolits *special*06:17
Mace_N8x0lol06:17
Mace_N8x0like the n95 running maemo?06:18
divide_by_zeroI remember some time ago reading about some company in chine receiving orders for two nokia products. They specilated it might be their netbook and somethingelse. Maybe one of them was the Rover/rx-51/N90006:18
Mace_N8x0er06:19
gogolnokia has a netbook?06:19
divide_by_zerorumors...06:19
divide_by_zerohttp://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/atom-based-nokia-netbook-reportedly-on-track-for-q3/06:19
Mace_N8x0they did send "c-series" into the patent office06:19
Mace_N8x0atom based?06:20
Mace_N8x0fail06:20
Mace_N8x0fucking.... FAIL, I dont trust engadget tho06:20
gogolandroid-based?06:20
Mace_N8x0they are like the national enquirer of the tech world06:21
pupnikgiven the vast oceanic reserves of hatred i have for intel, they could come out with a 100mA SoC that outperforms an Athlon and sucks me off at the same time, and i'd still wish slow death upon them.06:21
pupnikno not oceanic06:21
Mace_N8x0hahahaha06:21
Mace_N8x0thats rough06:21
gogolhttp://www.netbookera.com/n97-the-nokia-netbook-unveiled/06:22
pupniklike... the sum of estimated dark matter in the universe06:22
pupnikthat is my hate06:22
pupnikit is bending spacetime to be closed and not open06:22
Mace_N8x0n97?06:22
gogolwell the vid doesnt play for me06:22
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Mace_N8x0isnt that a phone?06:22
Mace_N8x0heh06:22
Mace_N8x0i had an n9506:22
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Mace_N8x0well06:23
Mace_N8x0if  you are going for vastness06:23
Mace_N8x0open space would have been a better choice06:23
divide_by_zerohttp://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090226/a-nokia-netbook-seriously/06:25
gogolhttp://www.geekstuff4u.com/mini-bluetooth-keyboard.html?___store=en <--what a deal!06:25
gogolwhat is that, pesos?06:26
divide_by_zerothat what?06:26
gogoland that keyboard is no better than the n810s anyway06:26
Mace_N8x0i use my su8w06:27
Mace_N8x0it isnt bad06:27
Mace_N8x0wish i could get the special keys working06:27
Mace_N8x0probably could if i tried06:27
divide_by_zero5990 Japanese yen = 62.27204 U.S. dollars06:28
Mace_N8x0mmmmkay?06:29
gogolah.06:29
* gogol <---stupid american06:29
divide_by_zero:)06:30
gogolcan i super size that?06:30
divide_by_zerotought you guys used to buy lots of japanese cars ;)06:30
gogolive never bought a car in my life06:30
gogoloh wait, a volkswagen for $5006:30
divide_by_zerowhat was that, a VW iPhone app? :)06:31
gogolnot too hip to world economics06:31
Mace_N8x0why are we called americans?06:31
gogolafter some guy06:31
gogolsanta claus america-smith06:31
Mace_N8x0like, north and south america have quite a few countries06:31
gogoloh right06:32
Mace_N8x0canada is in north america too06:32
Mace_N8x0shouldnt we be unitedians06:32
gogolbecause we're the dumbest, and loudest. and we kill people when we want to.06:32
Mace_N8x0or statian?06:32
Mace_N8x0hahaha06:32
gogolwe could decide to call ourselves THE EARTHIANS and nobody would question it im sure06:33
Mace_N8x0i just never understood that06:33
Mace_N8x0naw06:33
divide_by_zeroThere is the work "Estadunidense" here in Brazil, but we only use it when we are fighting :)06:33
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Mace_N8x0if they did we would use our military arsenal to silence them06:33
gogolwho is 'we'>06:34
gogol?06:34
Mace_N8x0hahaha06:34
gogoli wouldnt fight for anything USA. no way.06:34
Mace_N8x0lost my capital letter again06:34
Mace_N8x0damnit06:34
gogolmaybe this is all waay OT.06:34
Mace_N8x0bbl06:34
divide_by_zeroWhat if the finnish secret service used devices disguised as cell phones to spy on America? Would you fight??06:36
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genewitchis there an easy or fancy way to do something like the following pseudo bash set of commands to use my internal card as main storage:06:39
divide_by_zeroso, using the internet via wi-fi drains the battery?... are there cell phone modems you can use in the usb port?...06:40
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divide_by_zeros/wi-fi/bluetooth06:40
genewitchmv /usr /media/mmc1/usrbak & rm -f /usr & ln -s /media/mmc1/usr /usr & mv /media/mmc1/usr/* /usr/06:41
genewitchdivide_by_zero: you can use any tetherable bluetooth phone to surf the internet06:41
genewitchoh06:41
gogolwell it kills my cell phone's battery in a matter of hours. n810 does ok though, probably better than it does over wifi, not sure though.06:41
genewitchgogol: have you tried the wimax?06:42
gogolno, couldnt afford a whole 'nother tablet06:42
genewitchoh06:42
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genewitchi just want to know if i can force the nokia to use the card as main storage, since i run out of space on the internal memory really fast06:43
gogoluse your internal card for main storage for what?06:43
genewitchgogol: everything06:43
genewitchi want to map /usr to the /media/mmc2/usr06:43
genewitchfor instance06:43
gogolthat would be nice!06:43
genewitchi have 10 gigs of storage, the 800 only has like <90mb of user storage available06:43
genewitchi know that's how Mer does it, the whole of the file system is on the memory card06:44
gogoli know there's partitioning tricks that work that way06:45
gogolyou can has /usr on a separate partition06:45
genewitchi know06:45
gogolwonder if symlinks would really work...i d k06:45
genewitchyeah i know06:46
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genewitchhowever the memory cards are not linux partitions06:46
genewitchand you can't access the onboard memory via USB (at least not easily)06:46
genewitchif you could access the internal memory you could copy /usr to a type 24 partition on the memory card, then use fstab to make the mountpoint /usr relative to root06:47
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genewitchI'm going to back up and reset my device in the next 24 hours06:48
genewitchi was just hoping there were guidelines for this06:48
GAN800~boot-sd06:48
infobotboot-sd is probably https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card06:48
GAN800Symlinks are a bad plan for a variety of reasons.06:49
genewitchGAN800: roger that.06:49
GAN800Just boot straight.06:49
genewitchGAN800: any idea which reader is faster and or HC06:49
genewitchIE can the internal MMC read 8 gig cards, and is it faster than the "external" one?06:50
GAN800I'd just use the internal. They're both about the same speed with faster kernels.06:51
genewitchi usually boot mer off the external and it's god awful slow at loading but really perky after it boots06:51
genewitchwell, ok06:51
GAN800Wait, N800 or N810?06:51
genewitchthanks for the link, i'm totally doing that.06:51
genewitch80006:51
genewitchi have two card readers06:51
GAN800Ah, it's totally card dependent.06:51
genewitchi have ridata 100x cards in both slots06:52
GAN800Might want to look at a 48MHz kernel, though.06:52
genewitchuh oh06:52
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GAN800100x sounds like a class 206:52
genewitchdoes that run diablo/maemo/whatever or is it custom like mer06:52
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GAN800Slow cards, I think.06:52
GAN800It's a Diablo kernel with patches.06:53
genewitchit's something i can replace later with a faster card, no worries.06:53
genewitchmy pc writes to them at like 6mb/sec06:53
GAN800Might want to order up a 4 or 8GB class 6.06:53
genewitchany brand or is ridata cool06:53
genewitchI'm sort of a brand loyalist :-p06:54
GAN800AData I've had some trouble with.06:54
GAN800The rest are mostly equal.06:54
GAN800SanDisk is usually significantly better.06:54
genewitchalright06:54
GAN800But you pay for it.06:54
genewitchI don't mind06:55
genewitchi have a ton of sandisk "thumbdrives" that i use as swap partitions on various linux boxes around the house06:55
genewitch"uh oh this perl script needs 5 gigs of ram... plug in the 4 gigger!"06:56
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jaem_N810hello folks07:05
jaem_N810Is there a sane way to set up my N810 to share its connection with my (non-wifi-enabled) desktop?  Google/t.m.o isn't turning up much for me07:06
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genewitchusb networking07:07
genewitch?07:07
jaem_N810yep07:07
jaem_N810but I mean the sharing part07:07
jaem_N810networking isn't my forte, and I have no idea how to do that in Maemo07:07
genewitchyou mean so the PC can use the 810's internet?07:07
jaem_N810yep07:07
jaem_N810this is just a temporary situation, so I can't justify buying a wifi dongle for the PC07:08
genewitchgive me a moment my 800 is really busy07:08
jaem_N810kk07:08
genewitchevidently there's iptables07:09
genewitchhttp://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/nat.html07:09
genewitchwarning, that may break your device or not work.07:10
jaem_N810heh07:10
genewitchbackup and have your maemo installer handy.07:10
genewitchas long as you have both device names you can forward from one to the other like that07:10
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genewitchyou don't have a bluetooth dongle on your pc? they're like $607:11
jaem_N810I have BT07:11
jaem_N810well, an excuse for a BT dongle :P07:11
genewitchif it does the bt networking you can probably share it that way07:11
genewitchyou still need to forward with iptables though07:12
jaem_N810its HW address is 11:11:11:11:11:11... about what I expected, given the vendor XD07:12
genewitchheh07:12
jaem_N810okay, that's a thought07:12
genewitchthe control panel doodad that i have is called "PC-Connectivity Manager"07:13
genewitchit lets you set up ad-hoc 802.11 and bt and USB networking07:13
jaem_N810oh, nice - thanks07:13
genewitchthat's on the nokia, btw, not the PC :-p07:13
jaem_N810my laptop's in for service, and doing /everything/ on my N810 gets cumbersome07:13
jaem_N810yeah - I got that :P07:14
genewitchhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_networking07:14
jaem_N810thanks07:15
jaem_N810I'll look into that07:15
genewitchwhere do you live that you're lucky enough to have wimax?07:15
jaem_N810I don't07:15
jaem_N810?07:15
genewitchhow do you ...07:15
jaem_N810oh07:15
genewitchborrowing the internet from a roommate with a wireless router?07:16
jaem_N810my downstairs neighbour let me hook my switch+AP tup to her connection07:16
genewitchah07:16
jaem_N810and normally I'd run it through my laptop, but it's not here07:16
genewitchgotcha07:16
jaem_N810her connection is overkill for her use, so she lets me use it for free, and doesn't miss the bandwidth ;)07:17
jaem_N810anyhow, thanks for the help07:17
jaem_N810g'night07:17
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Mace_N8x0blah07:20
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Mace_N8x0heh07:24
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genewitchdrat, i already had the modified initfs flashed. i just wasted 10 minutes of my life ;-)07:49
genewitchalthough i did learn that this can boot off a USB HD?07:49
genewitchkinda awesome.07:49
Mace_N8x0usb hd?07:49
genewitchyeah07:49
Mace_N8x0the n810?07:50
genewitchn80007:50
genewitchdunno about n810, i don't have one07:50
Mace_N8x0doesnt the n810 use a proprietary cable?07:50
Mace_N8x0heh07:50
genewitchi'm currently installing the OS onto my SD card07:50
genewitchso i have more space for programs07:50
Mace_N8x0it looks like it is but so does a g1 usb port07:50
Mace_N8x0oh07:51
Mace_N8x0yah. good idea07:51
Mace_N8x0sure wish they kept the internal sd with the n81007:51
Mace_N8x0bastards07:51
Mace_N8x0heh07:51
RST38hmoo all07:53
Mace_N8x0hey07:54
pupnik_RST38h:07:54
pupnik_http://pupnik.de/brainmlt.jpg  Beer = Brain Melt07:54
pupnik_it's the 90s photoshop lens flare!07:54
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genewitchindeed it is07:55
genewitchMace_N8x0: isn't there a bunch of extra nifty stuff that is installed on that soldered internal card though?07:56
genewitchlike the mapping software, et al07:56
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Mace_N8x0dunno07:57
Mace_N8x0wiped it before noticing07:57
Mace_N8x0heh07:57
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Mace_N8x0can i unsolder it and put a normal sd?07:57
genewitchi was wondering07:58
genewitchthat.07:58
genewitchthen again, sdhc cards are cheap so popping a different card in whenever isn't that big of a deal07:58
genewitchi don't use my internal card for much, really07:58
genewitchi think it has every gameboy game on it and a couple of books and a video, and that's it07:59
genewitchat least they went with SD and not memory stick07:59
genewitchThose fellas cost a ton comparatively.08:00
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pupnik_genewitch: that image taught me how to do rendering and postprocessing08:05
pupnik_back when it was newish08:06
genewitchheh08:06
genewitchSuccess! my nokia "device memory" now says 409 MB free!08:07
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Mace_N8x0er08:15
Mace_N8x0409?08:15
genewitchyup08:16
Mace_N8x0heh08:16
genewitchi was getting sick of having to uninstall some software to install new software08:16
Mace_N8x0what is the easiest way to log the output of initfs flasher?08:17
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Mace_N8x0init_flasher > foo.log?08:17
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RST38hpupnik: Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly?08:21
Stskeeps&> ?08:21
pupnik_RST38h: the cheap beer in minnesota was called "Grain Belt"  - "Brain Melt" was just... my little idea08:22
pupnik_anyway alcohol is a sledgehammer drug.  perverse that it is the heaviest legal one.08:23
RST38hHeh08:23
Mace_N8x0&> allows input?08:24
RST38hInternet not included, I am sure?08:24
pupnik_i also just had a chance to test thinkpad resilience to a freaking beer poured all over it08:24
pupnik_t42p - now sticky as a snail and the screen looks "interesting" - but it still works, due to the drainage slot in the keyboard08:25
RST38hYes, thinkpads are full of drainage slots08:25
pupnik_you shoud;ld see the screen though... crazy improvement in contrast where the beer crept under the rim08:25
RST38hheh08:26
pupnik_i am guessing there might be a space between backlight and lcd element that go tfilled - but the strange strange thing is that the borders are 1:1 diagonal in most of it08:26
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pupnik_on the one hand, i ruined my thinkpad, on the other hand, it is not unsteal/unsellable08:27
pupnik_now08:27
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divide_by_zerowoohoo, my script to fix the ogg fiels at the media library worked!!08:40
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kulvedivide_by_zero: I have a small control panel applet that removes the navigator oggs from the playlist. Should we add there a button for your script? :)08:42
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divide_by_zeromight be good! :]08:46
divide_by_zerohere it is, version 0.1 gopher://sdf.lonestar.org/0/users/nwerneck/ogg-hat-hacker.py08:47
divide_by_zerogoing to sleep, see you all08:47
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Mace_N8x0hm08:55
Mace_N8x0joining more than one irc server seems a little screwed up in rtcom08:56
Mace_N8x0telepathy?08:56
Mace_N8x0heh08:56
Mace_N8x0ah well08:56
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RST38hHmmm...AppManager will no longer support installing from files10:23
qwerty12_N810Yep...10:24
Meknot even in red pill mode?10:24
RST38hApparently10:24
RST38hNext step: removing apt-get!10:24
qwerty12_N810Not saying it was the right thing to do, at all, but it didn't work great10:24
RST38hWorked fine for me10:25
RST38hYes, you could screw things up by installing a wrong package, but that was up to you10:26
qwerty12_N810I usually resorted to dpkg because Application Manager wouldn't install dependencies. From a X terminal, I could just apt-get -f install afterwards10:26
qwerty12_N810apt-get won't be removed though: Quim said about people knowing how to install packages are free to use the command line (incidentially, one of the things I do love about Maemo)10:28
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JaffaMorning, all10:28
qwerty12_N810Morning Jaffa10:28
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Indeed, which is why RST38h saying "removing apt-get" is effectively a troll ;-)10:28
Jaffas/a troll/trolling/10:28
infobotJaffa meant: qwerty12_N810: Indeed, which is why RST38h saying "removing apt-get" is effectively trolling ;-)10:28
JaffaSimplifying the UI whilst keeping the power under the hood is fine by me.10:29
RST38hJaffa: You are reminding me to post this suggestion to talk =)10:30
JaffaOh noes!10:31
RST38hhehe10:31
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RST38hJaffa: BTW, should I file separate trackers for every requested XTerm improvement?10:32
timeless_mbpfwiw, my harmattan manager is just as annoyed as externals about not being able to install from .deb's using ham :)10:35
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Tomaterrhi10:37
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JaffaRST38h: Yes, I think so.10:38
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RST38hOk, adding10:41
RST38hqwerty: Do you know the source of that patch that added vertical button placement for xterm?10:42
qwerty12_N810It wasn't a patch, it was like that by default in one of the osso-xterm versions (0.12-<something>) IIRC10:43
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RST38hOk, referred tracker to OS2007 version at maemo hackers10:44
RST38hThe maintainer will probably use this as an excuse to no work on this bug, but it is better than nothing10:44
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Andy80hi10:49
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RST38hqwerty: here?10:59
qwerty12_N810yessir10:59
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RST38hqwerty: I created trakcers for all the XTerm improvements11:01
RST38hqwerty: So if you still haven't abandoned hope of seeing them integrated, go vote/comment and bring the other folks =)11:02
qwerty12_N810Hehe, thanks :)11:02
Macerhi11:03
Macerhm. n810 died11:03
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RST38hMacer: That is because you cheated on it with Touchbook\11:05
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qwerty12_N810"Coreutils: serious business."11:07
StskeepsMacer: killed your device you say? :P11:10
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qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: re x86 Mer: please add an option to the first-boot-wizard to blacklist pcspkr11:10
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: oh, hell yes :P11:10
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: i hate pcspkr module11:12
qwerty12_N810Same here :)11:12
Stskeepstell me what to add to the x86 image for it to blacklist it and i'll gladly add it to imager :P11:13
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qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: A "/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-pcspkr.conf" containing "blacklist pcspkr" should be enough11:14
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: consider it done11:15
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qwerty12_N810Thanks11:15
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RST38hJaffa: Same, if you want this stuff integrated into XTerm, vote/comment11:18
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Macerhm11:19
Macerwtf11:19
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JaffaRST38h: Will do.11:21
MacerRST38h: only for Mer?11:21
Macerhehe11:21
Maceri want composited windows11:21
Macer!11:21
slonopotamusweird. my tablet started rebooting sometimes when on charger.11:21
Macerinstalled coreutils?11:22
Macer;)11:22
qwerty12_N810Macer: xcompmgr and transset-df is in -devel. Beware of the speed, however...11:22
Macerqwerty12_N810: wow.. i was joking haha11:22
Macerno powervr support im guessing?11:22
slonopotamusand bme says 'ignoring PONG from processwd' several times after reboot11:22
RST38hMacer: No, I have filed for 5.0beta2 and any later version11:22
RST38hMacer: Only because filing for Diablo does not bring any response nowadays11:23
Macerlol11:23
qwerty12_N810RST38h: is this on bugs.maemo.org? I can only see reports from 07 on maemo-hackers.org11:23
RST38hqwerty: Yes, it is on bugs.maemo.org, I will give tracker numbers in a moment11:23
Macermaybe they will release fremantle for n810s11:23
Macer;)11:23
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Ah, OK, would explain a lot...11:23
Macerlike an actual nokia build11:23
RST38hqwerty: 4912,4913,4914,4915,491611:24
RST38hqwerty: I *think* I have covered 'em all, but not sure11:25
qwerty12_N810Macer: There'd be no point in that considering that people are told that said problem in bug report is fixed in Mer11:25
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: thanks11:25
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StskeepsRST38h: don't you have commit access to push those modifications? :)11:26
StskeepsMarat Fayzullin is't it?11:27
Stskeepsyou're listed as a project admin on osso-xterm so there's really no excuse not to patch :P11:27
qwerty12_N810RST38h: will vote & comment11:27
Macercan you run hildon in mer?11:27
Macer:)11:27
Stskeepsmer is primarily hildon..11:27
Stskeeps:P11:27
Macerbut i mean the maemo hildon11:27
Stskeepswe did in the past11:28
Stskeepshang on11:28
Macerthat would be kind of cool11:28
Macerbbl. have to do something11:28
Stskeepsyou're waiting one minute11:29
Stskeeps:P11:29
Stskeepshttp://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-homediskfree.png11:30
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RST38hSts: Actually, I do11:34
RST38hSts: But 1) no time and 2) if I do try pushing them, there may be backlash from the maintainers11:34
StskeepsRST38h: i think they'd be happy, tbh11:35
timeless_mbpandre__: ping11:35
RST38hSts: Need at least a week of joblesness :)11:35
Stskeepsbut anyway, you can use 15 minutes to checkout the svn, patch, compile, test, instead of complaining 30 minutes on a bug :)11:36
timeless_mbpandre__: please import the latest bug such that the body of comment 1 is before comment 011:36
RST38hSts: That is, no full time work, no contract work, family sent away, telephones cut11:36
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t_s_oseems there will be a whole lot of people running app manager in permanent red pill mode in fremantle...11:36
RST38hSts: No, it isn't this easy. The current XTerm patches apply to OS2007 and OS200811:36
timeless_mbpt_s_o: well11:36
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timeless_mbpmost likely a lot of people will install a replacement ham11:37
RST38hSts: So, integrating them into OS2009 codebase is gonna take more than 15 minutes, ESPECIALLY if doing it well11:37
timeless_mbpwhich doesn't require permanent red pill mode11:37
qwerty12_N810t_s_o: why? it's not gonna bring back the "install from local .deb" feature ;)11:37
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t_s_o:P11:37
RST38hSts: Besides, will have to ask wazd for a better keyboard overlay, the current one is garish11:37
StskeepsRST38h: there's literally not much change between os2009 osso-xterm and os2008 one :P11:37
Stskeepsstill, it shows that it just takes one person to ask for commit access to get the stuff done11:39
Stskeepsyou got added without much protest11:39
RST38hSts: I was asked if I want this job11:39
RST38hSts: And agreed. Haven't done shit though.11:39
t_s_oqwerty12_N810: maybe i should put it like this then, right now there seems to be a very short distance between "sheep" and "wizard" in the package management department...11:40
Andy80t_s_o, what you mean?11:42
Stskeepst_s_o: they didn't say no .install files11:42
t_s_oso we are back at third party repos?11:42
Stskeepsi do understand why they want to do it like that though11:43
Mekbtw, last I checked app manager in fremantle still had install from file in red pill mode...11:43
t_s_oMek: red pill opens a whole different can of worms...11:43
Stskeepst_s_o: or local repos for that sake11:43
t_s_oheh, now i am tempted to see if i can run a repo of a SD card ;)11:44
Stskeepssure you can11:44
Mekthat works just fine11:44
Stskeepsapt-ftparchive is your friend11:44
* qwerty12_N810 installed the early diablo betas like that...11:44
MekI've installed lots of stuff whith no wifi around that way...11:44
t_s_ofigures11:44
timeless_mbpt_s_o: you can run a repo off anything11:45
timeless_mbpi have a test package which install a repo into /root11:45
t_s_omeh, damned if you do, damned if you dont...11:45
timeless_mbpit's referenced from a Fremantle bug report11:45
timeless_mbp(a bug they fixed i might add)11:46
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linuxeventuallyHello all11:50
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andre__timeless_mbp, that's not a blocker, but okay12:04
timeless_mbpandre__: such bugs need to be fixed early12:04
timeless_mbpi should have spotted it months ago when i was working on the Mer strings12:04
timeless_mbpandre__: from an l10n perspective, it blocks the ability to have decent strings12:05
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timeless_mbpit's more important than a bug where a string is misspelled12:05
andre__then every l10n bug would be a blocker12:05
timeless_mbpno12:05
timeless_mbponly bugs where the underlying code is inflexible12:05
timeless_mbpwhich in fact is about 50% of bugs but should be <2%12:06
andre__right, misspelled strings are l10n bugs. this issue is an i18n bug12:06
timeless_mbpright12:06
timeless_mbpi18n bugs essentially are blockers by default, yes12:06
timeless_mbpput another way12:06
timeless_mbpif an i18n bug isn't fixed, a given language shouldn't ship12:06
timeless_mbpbecause it can't do its job12:07
timeless_mbpit literally blocks the entire deliverable12:07
Stskeepswhat's the difference between l10n and i18n? :P12:08
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pupnik_are there any particular things to avoid when persuading an old woman to go down on you?12:08
timeless_mbpinternationalization is the ability to make something available12:08
ShadowJKpupnik_, dentures12:09
timeless_mbplocalization is the act of actually translating12:09
timeless_mbpthere's also l12y12:09
timeless_mbplocalizability12:09
timeless_mbpwhich is really what we're talking about more than l18n12:09
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timeless_mbpl18n is more of a superset12:09
timeless_mbpand l12y/l10n are mostly complements12:09
timeless_mbpthat's a really rough explanation12:10
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timeless_mbphttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi#l12y12:10
timeless_mbphttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi#intl12:10
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timeless_mbpthat's about the best i can offer12:11
timeless_mbpactually replace my original definition of internationalization with a more process oriented definition covering l12y+l10n :)12:11
linuxeventually@Pupnik, I realize this off-topic, but I was wondering if the driver qwerty12 compiled for r8187 (realtek rtl8187) works with the latest Diablo kernel?12:12
timeless_mbpin general, nokia doesn't get l12y right ever12:12
timeless_mbpnot for gender (see references from yesterday)12:12
timeless_mbpand not for regional stuff (see bug)12:12
timeless_mbpi can't wait for all the fun plural bugs12:12
RST38hf10n12:13
timeless_mbpand note that even for simple plurals nokia doesn't get them right12:13
RST38hAs in "stick to pidgin English to avoid f10n"12:13
pupnik_11:12 -!- pupnik_ was kicked from #politics by RAS| [I would ask you to leave, but why, when I can force you?]12:14
timeless_mbpheh12:14
pupnik_yaay my ban for the day12:15
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pupnik_just gotta be creative12:15
timeless_mbpgood to get that out of the way early :)12:15
RST38hpupnik: So, what was it?12:15
pupnik_the comment that got me banned?   my silly sex question12:15
RST38hAh12:16
linuxeventuallyAh12:16
pupnik_<chirp>12:17
pupnik_when you're on a roll you just gotta soar12:17
RST38hpupnik: Next time ask for a slightly used stuffed owl, in a good condition12:17
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RST38hThat USUALLY makes most people think12:18
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: another Mer gotcha: WebKit, itself, is hardcoded to use /home/user for its cookie storage12:18
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: probably another g_free issue..12:18
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: got a file i can look at?12:18
qwerty12_N810I just searched in his diff after noticing that /home/user was created after running Tear12:19
linuxeventuallyI would like to add to the topic brought forth by timeless_mbp the suggestion that the universal symbol for currency ¤ be used in the future as the label on the hardware key that then redirects to the appropriate $, ¥, €, £ etc based on user localization so as to not waste function keys and be more globally accepting12:19
Stskeepsi'm really wondering if it's good or bad that we have $USER != user12:19
timeless_mbplinuxeventually: so12:20
timeless_mbpthat's problematic12:20
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: I can give him a patch that'll use g_get_home_dir() - it'll work for Maemo too..12:20
RST38hlinueventually: Finally, all the keyboards will be marked like we had them back in .SU12:20
timeless_mbpbecause i use $ to mean "go to end of line" in vi12:20
timeless_mbpand i use $ to mean "this is a shell variable" in my shell12:20
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RST38hPlease, also adopt the IBM backspace symbol (arrow with a cross)12:20
timeless_mbpor $ to mean "this is a scalar variable" in perl12:20
timeless_mbpRST38h: EWAYTOORATIONAL12:20
timeless_mbpand IBM owns RATIONAL :)12:20
timeless_mbpRST38h: do you mean the icon used here: http://www.nokiaphoneblog.com/images/e61i.jpg12:21
linuxeventuallyThat's true, but are the yen or euro characters used as variables/shortcuts in any programs or programming languages? I'm just curious.12:22
Stskeepsi vote for one world currency12:22
Stskeeps:P12:22
timeless_mbpUSD :)12:23
qwerty12_N810GBP12:23
timeless_mbplinuxeventually: to my knowledge none are12:23
RST38hGolden sovereigns12:23
linuxeventuallyIt was just something I was thinking about the other day, so as to free more space for other characters12:23
suihkulokkibottlecaps12:23
RST38hqwerty: Can you still make your own sovereigns in the UK?12:24
timeless_mbplinuxeventually: i'm not saying there isn't something to be said for the approach12:24
qwerty12_N810RST38h: no idea12:24
timeless_mbpi certainly don't approve of the 5 character rotate left in the n81012:24
timeless_mbpthat was insane12:24
Stskeepssheep as world currency12:24
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linuxeventuallyOkay I guess no one wants to abandon their own currency, so I suppose I'm going to put name in for more keys in the future then (;12:26
linuxeventually*My name12:26
RST38hjust remove all markings off the keys12:27
linuxeventuallySo no one wants to talk about the alfa usb driver I mentioned earlier?12:27
linuxeventuallyLol12:27
RST38hPeople who need to use them will know12:27
RST38hThe rest can have one-buttoned mouse12:27
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linuxeventuallyNo thanks one-button mouse12:28
Stskeepsjust put tiny lcd displays in the keys..12:28
Stskeeps:P12:28
qwerty12_N810With keys that size? :P12:29
* ShadowJK saw keys with oled 64x64 pixel displays sold on a chinese website12:29
linuxeventuallyI'd like to see a faux middle click in addition  to our faux right-click (i of course refer to the menu key) rather than relying soley on a single input12:29
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linuxeventuallyThe optimus keyboard?12:30
ShadowJKno12:30
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timeless_mbpyeah, lcd keyboards are definitely available12:32
timeless_mbpor you know... someone could invest enough time and money to make a working touch screen based keyboard12:32
timeless_mbpoh,... apple already did that12:32
timeless_mbpi guess no one else should then12:33
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ShadowJKwhoever designed E75 keyboard never tried entering ip:port addresses with it :/12:33
timeless_mbpheh12:33
timeless_mbpmy e61i has shift+. = :12:33
timeless_mbpand they're stacked vertically12:33
timeless_mbp ?12:34
ShadowJKe75 has FN+. = :12:34
timeless_mbphttp://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2009/2/nokia-e75.jpg ?12:34
ShadowJKI guess the layout for specials is different between languages again..12:35
timeless_mbpnokia is great at tha12:35
timeless_mbpmay i ask why you bought the e75?12:35
timeless_mbpnokia thinks that it adds value to have incompatible variants12:35
linuxeventuallyI think my biggest personal annoyance of the n810 hardware keys is that the numerical keys are part of the homerow.12:36
ShadowJKBecause my E70 died and nokia has no replacement yet.. I would've bought E71, but it's stuck on the older OS, so I got E75 instead12:36
linuxeventuallyI can only assume they have a fragmented keyboard design team12:37
timeless_mbpthey don't12:37
linuxeventuallyReally?12:37
timeless_mbpthey have a fragmented requirements team12:37
timeless_mbpand insist on catering to each group12:37
linuxeventuallyAh12:37
timeless_mbpat least, that's what we have12:37
timeless_mbpi have to assume the same applies for Symbian divisions12:37
timeless_mbpnokia is really proud of its variants system12:38
timeless_mbpit really does think a lot of value is had from it12:38
ShadowJKNokia has too many variants of everything, when nokia itself even fails to make apps portable across variants12:39
* timeless_mbp would be happy if nokia managed to make one app that worked properly for one variant12:40
timeless_mbpoverjoyed even12:40
linuxeventuallyYes I thought Ovi was their way of doing that12:41
linuxeventuallyBut then12:41
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linuxeventuallyNot so much12:41
ShadowJKSome of them do work if you limit yourself to a featureset smaller than what the program appears or claims to support ;-)12:41
ShadowJKThe S60 Browser works for downloading files, as long as you split them up to 350 meg or so12:42
linuxeventuallyI find it humourous that symbian application designed for the N95 are not functional on the N97 due the lack of softkeys12:42
timeless_mbpyou've managed to download a 350mb file?12:42
ShadowJKyes12:42
timeless_mbpwow12:42
timeless_mbpmy phone would probably just reboot :)12:42
timeless_mbp(n81 8gb)12:42
ShadowJKJust started it in the morning, left phone on charger, and the next day in the evening it beeped and said file saved to E:\Downloads12:43
timeless_mbpit likes to reboot if i try to connect to freenode12:43
linuxeventuallyI think that's to remind people using US telecos that they have a 5gb limit (;12:43
timeless_mbpheh12:43
ShadowJKI don't know exactly where the limit is, but when there was 1.8 gig free on the memory card it failed to download a 1 gig file with "insufficient space" or something similar..12:44
slonopotamuslardman|afk, ping12:44
linuxeventuallyHmm12:44
linuxeventuallyI wonder12:44
linuxeventuallyIf it's something similar12:44
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ShadowJKIt probably downloads to a temp folder and then copies? :-)12:44
linuxeventuallyTo the practice of reserving 5% of a partition for root12:45
linuxeventuallyOr that12:45
ShadowJKOut of the box, the Camera app crashed on everything except taking a picture. If you tired change settings -> crash, if you tried switch flash on/off -> crash12:46
ShadowJKone day phone asked approval for updating firmware and I said yes, camera started working after that :-)12:46
RST38hShadow: N97?12:49
ShadowJKE7512:49
RST38hAh12:50
slonopotamuslardman|afk, gcc supports c54x and c4x targets. now i wonder if c54x binaries will work on c55x12:50
RST38hThe insuffficient state thing is a known problem12:50
RST38hShadow: it copies crap to a temp directory on C:12:50
ShadowJKthat can't be, C: isn't even big enough for a 350 meg download12:52
RST38hWell, it applies to .sis files12:53
RST38hNot sure about firmware updates12:53
ShadowJKOh I was downloading random shit12:53
RST38hPoor old E70 can only be flashed wholesale, not that there is any reason to do that for the last few years12:53
ShadowJKactually an mp3 XORd so that the damn browser wouldn't try to invoke the media player12:54
ShadowJKI think it can be flashed with data cable and PC Suite?12:54
RST38hEhehe, this is fixable I think :)12:54
RST38hYes, it can be12:54
RST38hIf you are bold enough to install PC Suite12:54
* ShadowJK isn't12:54
ShadowJKI've stumbled across various siemens, nokia, ericsson software on people's computers12:55
RST38hWell, you will jsut have to manually clean registry afterwards12:55
ShadowJKand it scares me12:55
RST38hActually, hijackThis does good job at eliminating PC Suite12:55
linuxeventuallyPerhaps it would work in a virtual machine that could just be junked later?12:58
RST38htoo complicated12:58
RST38hthenyou would have to clean up after vmware instead12:58
_berto_i tried pc suite in qemu12:59
glasse70 can be home-flashed with pcsuite..12:59
glasspcsuite makes it more useful anyways12:59
_berto_but it didn't work12:59
RST38hglass: Not for me12:59
RST38hglass: Ironically, what made e70 more useful for me was Personal Web Server13:00
RST38hglass: If I were Nokia, I would ditch PC Suite and replace it with PWS on the phone13:00
glassRST38h: yes, but arranging files, getting images automatically out, managing stuff13:00
glassRST38h: would pws make dialing up to internet a one click thing?13:01
RST38hglass: BT/USB mass storage does this very well13:01
RST38hglass: No, but you do not need PC Suite for that either13:01
RST38hglass: For managing files, standard USB mass storage + FAR Manager serve all my needs13:01
lcuk2does the tablet connect wiht pcsuite stuff?  the only desktop software ive tried is the windows flasher13:01
lcuk2and i rated that 5stars lol13:01
RST38hlcuk: Actually, it does13:02
RST38hlcuk: In a limited way13:02
glassRST38h: standard usb mass storage gets you mmc only, no?13:02
lcuk2interesting, so its recognised then?13:02
RST38hglass: Yes, but so what?13:02
glassRST38h: a lot so what13:02
RST38hglass: I have got 1GB MMC there and a really tiny 64MB C:13:02
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: did I fuck something up here: http://slexy.org/view/s21cm9qprc13:03
RST38hglass: Why would I care?13:03
glassRST38h: i guess you don't want to look at logs from c13:03
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RST38hglass: Not often, but when I do, there is BT13:03
RST38hglass: And I can look at them locally using XFiles13:03
glassRST38h: pcsuite allows faster installing of sis files too13:04
glassRST38h: all and all, using either that, or remotes60 or such, comes pretty useful when developing13:04
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: looks correct to me13:04
RST38hglass: The only problem is, not all sis files installed by pcsuite work afterwards :)13:04
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Good, it shouldn't mess up usage under Maemo13:04
glassRST38h: .. such as?13:05
glassRST38h: the installer is ran on the phone anyways13:05
RST38hglass: google :)13:05
lcuk2qwerty12_N810, webkit uses curl?13:05
RST38hglass: I know, but there appear to be some discrepancies13:05
glassRST38h: such sis files would be called 'broken'13:05
RST38hglass: Never took time to figure which ones13:05
RST38hglass: Dunno, it installs everytihing just fine locally13:05
qwerty12_N810lcuk2: no, libsoup but Bundyo has to use the CURL backend so that it compiles for Diablo (diablo has too old libsoup)13:06
glassRST38h: pre 2nd edition, the installer ran completely on the pcsuite. was very useful13:06
RST38hglass: I never found this thing useful, really13:06
glassRST38h: if one put the exe to run after install, then testing on phone was supereasy13:06
lcuk2qwerty12_N810, understood13:06
glassRST38h: but a lot of things got broken in the installer in 3rd edition13:06
RST38hglass: It is awful :( Slow, crashy, leaves crap all over the registry13:06
glassRST38h: a _lot_13:06
RST38hglass: not only in the installer...13:07
timeless_mbpRST38h: i'm quite happy with virtualbox13:07
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* ShadowJK has a little arm box under his desk with bluetooth dongle attached, automatically connects through phone to intarwebs whenever phone is in range13:09
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genewitchcan i develop software for the nokia n800 on an old sparc workstation?13:16
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: I've also given Bundyo a patch that checks to see if /media/mmc1/ exists before making databaseDirectory "/media/mmc1" so that should hopefully be resolved too if Bundyo includes it...13:16
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: alright, - sounds good13:16
lcuk2genewitch, you can sit on whatever is comfortable13:16
Stskeepswe'll probably adopt /media/mmc* eventually when we have the event daemon :P13:16
lcuk2but im not sure if the sdk will work13:16
genewitchi'm thinking of making a LAMP server out of the sparc workstation, or SAMP if i can't find a useful linux to run on it13:17
lcuk2you could try using the vmware image or something13:17
genewitchi really only write console stuff13:17
Stskeepsgenewitch: sparc and scratchbox would probably be fun.. in scratchbox2 it's more likely13:17
genewitchi have no desire to learn qt4 or whatever API for maemo; the GUI space in my brain is reserved for windows :-(13:18
genewitchno out loud pun intended.13:19
ShadowJKsmall console stuff can probably be compiled on the tablet fine13:20
genewitchhow? mer?13:20
ShadowJKIf you're careful, you can add the SDK repo and install gcc and libc6-dev13:21
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genewitchyou have a link?13:25
genewitchi'd love that13:25
genewitchi tried to get it on there a while back but to no avail13:25
StskeepsShadowJK: are you trying to drive people to mass psychosis? :P13:28
linuxeventuallyI'd be interested as well. However I would think it would "brick"/unusable the particular install. Also it takes a couple gigs, right?13:28
lcuk2deb http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk free non-free13:28
lcuk2deb http://repository.maemo.org diablo/tools free non-free13:28
ShadowJKStskeeps, luck isn't psychotic13:29
lcuk2then you can apt-get sdk stuff available directly on tablet.  you cannot run things like ./configure, nor can you build packages with dpkg13:29
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genewitchwhy would having a compiler and a library brick an install? you can usually tell it to install into it's own folder, however much hell that would play on gmake13:29
lcuk2but you can use gcc and make happily13:29
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pupnik_i am a libertarian13:29
pupnik_a person of clear mind, generous heart, and joyous spirit13:30
ShadowJKThat's what I said "carefully", the SDK repo isn't entirely compatible, and sometimes it will ask you to remove a dozen packages in order to install something. Say no.13:30
lcuk2ShadowJK, heh i think its coreutils that does that13:30
lcuk2it removes busybox and tries to put the other stuff on, and you get almost 2 pages of removals13:31
lcuk2and you have to type "stskeeps told me to do it"13:31
lcuk2before it will actually do it13:31
lcuk2genewitch, ^^^ thats why it can brick an install13:32
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linuxeventually"stskeeps made me do it" LOL13:32
slonopotamusscary13:33
* slonopotamus build crosstoolchain for dsp13:33
pupnik_where is somumaha13:34
pupnik_damn finns13:34
qwerty12_N810ukki? he's in #knots13:34
linuxeventuallyYeah installing core packages from a different repo tends to do that to linux installs, heh. i probably have a record for most bricked installs. "What do you mean libc cannot be installed" etc13:34
pupnik_ty!13:34
pupnik_qwerty12_N810: if you're ever like dying or something.... drop me a privmsg and i'll help13:34
qwerty12_N810Hehe, thanks :D13:35
StskeepsShadowJK: you obviously haven't met him ;p13:35
lcuk2linuxeventually, libc6 to be installed is v3, but you currently have v4.  do you want to downgrade?13:35
lcuk2yeah13:35
pupnik_the offer includes helicopters and armed people13:35
lcuk2KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!13:35
lcuk2:O oi!13:35
linuxeventuallyMore of a apt-get upgrade on a knoppix hd install that was 2 years old, hah13:36
pupnik_so my vmps electrostatics seem farked.  so i'm cranking just the carbn woofer bass drivers with 2.5kg magnets13:36
pupnik_it's not club-level-loud but et get's the bowels moving13:36
genewitchouch13:36
pupnik_if anybody likes hi-fi, and comes through frankfurt, contact me13:37
genewitchi sound like such a cad13:37
genewitchis there a java VM or whatever for maemo?13:37
pupnik_sort of13:37
genewitchie java javaprog.java13:37
slonopotamusgenewitch, jalimo13:38
Jaffagenewitch: Yes. See Jalimo.13:38
* Jaffa has run Eclipse's OSGi-container (Equinox) using it13:38
genewitchOSGi13:38
genewitchi can write java in notepad++13:38
JaffaOSGi is nothing to do with Eclipse's IDE13:39
genewitchnow i can 1-up my iPhone wearing friends. "we both have java, but i still have flash and you don't"13:39
Jaffagenewitch: The iPhone has Java?13:39
JaffaI didn't think it did.13:39
genewitchi could be wrong13:40
genewitcherg13:40
genewitch~jalimo13:40
linuxeventuallyI thought most phones had java mobile (or whatever it is called)? But no idea about apple products13:41
Jaffalinuxeventually: Many/most phones to have a Java ME implementation. The iPhone is not one of them. Android doesn't either (IIRC), but its apps are written in the Java language and run on a Java-like platform.13:41
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linuxeventuallyYeah java-like.13:42
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JaffaFor most developers, the slightly different class library and the Dalvik VM aren't relevant and it's as close to Java to make the difference somewhat immaterial13:43
genewitchmicrosoft virtual machine definition of "java-like"?13:43
lcuk2"java-like" as in pepsi is "coke-like"13:43
linuxeventuallyI know "turbo easyDEB" has some version of java installed, probably not sun java, I haven't looked into it13:43
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genewitchApplications / There is no result matching the search criteria. Please try again.13:44
genewitchfor jalimo13:44
Jaffagenewitch: No. It's a version of the class library with some additions (and some removals) and a non-Java-bytecode VM13:45
Jaffahttps://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Main_Page13:45
linuxeventually(That debian lxde env. contains openjdk, eww)13:48
lcuk2xnt keeps mucking about with a java framework i think13:48
Stskeepshmm, qole's birthday today13:51
genewitchhappy birthday qole13:51
genewitchbrb13:51
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RST38hHahaha, QuickOffice guys suddenly felt the ground being removed form udner their feet13:59
Stskeepswtf is the deal with #4915 and worksforme->reopened->fixed? :P14:00
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javispedrooh, my garage application was rejected14:04
javispedrowho is the garage admin?14:04
Jaffajavispedro: For?14:04
Stskeepssnes9x license? ;)14:05
qwerty12_N810Having Maemo in the name? :P14:05
javispedro"I didn't specify a license", though I remember choosing "Other/propietary" and I'm sure I filled the license textfield.14:05
JaffaStskeeps: My diablo X Term (without patches) allows me to change the font14:05
X-Fadejavispedro: There is an unspoken rule not to allow hosting closed source apps on garage, I thnk.14:06
suihkulokkiRST38h: one still needs to wonder if m$ will manage to make a useful office port - they have a habit of making half-assed ports to their competitors platforms14:06
javispedroIt's not closed source, but uses a rather uncommon BSD-like with advertising license and no-commercial.14:07
suihkulokkieven office for windoes ce is quite sucky too..14:07
linuxeventually1Well I guess you can just host elsewhere until it is cleared up. And yes it is a license formality. If it had a binary blob we wouldn't have support =@14:08
RST38hsuihkulokki: One does not need to wonder, MS will not.14:08
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X-Fadejavispedro: I'll check who denied it and what was the reasoning behind it.14:09
RST38hsuihkulokki: For reference, you only need to look at their IE port to Solaris14:09
javispedroX-Fade, thanks.14:09
RST38hsuihkulokki: Or at Skype port to Symbian14:09
RST38hsuihkulokki: (to view the problem from the other end)14:09
javispedrofor the record, Wikipedia says the license is "Free software": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snes9x#Licenseç14:10
javispedrodamn ç key near return.14:10
lcuk2X-Fade, what happened with canola then?14:10
lcuk2for the longest time wasnt that closed14:10
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zerojayPCyep14:11
lcuk2and didnt someone get round the problem of autobuilder and blobs14:11
X-Fadelcuk2: Probably got grandfathered in somewhere in 2006.14:12
* lcuk2 nods14:12
X-Fadelcuk2: And why would you use the autobuilder for closed apps a all? There is direct upload for non-free?14:12
lcuk2you were a PFY yourself then lol14:12
lcuk2i dunno, but if theres a method to upload non-free doesnt that mean you allow closed source?14:13
javispedroor things the autobuilder doesn't like.14:13
suihkulokkiRST38h: IE for UNIX was funny.. came with half of windows :)14:13
lcuk2or is it just garage hosted14:13
Jaffalcuk2: Extras, auto-builder and garage have *nothing* to do with each other.14:13
X-FadeJaffa: Well, that is not exactly true.14:14
lcuk2ok, each has its own little rules.  cool ill stop digging14:14
JaffaX-Fade: In terms of proejcts etc.14:14
JaffaX-Fade: i.e. you don't need a garage project to upload to the auto-builder; you don't need to use the auto-builder to get into extras (for non-free)14:15
X-FadeJaffa: But you need a garage account and both run on the same machine ;)14:16
linuxeventually1Speaking of that snes emulator, is it usable at this stage?14:16
JaffaX-Fade: Yeah, yeah - I know ;-p14:16
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javispedrolinuxeventually1, if you can live without saves :D14:17
linuxeventually1Excuse me the term is "playable"14:17
linuxeventually1Ah cool14:17
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RST38hsuihkulokki: Right. Now imagine Office for Symbian coming to Symbian with half Windows =)14:17
linuxeventually1Haha14:18
suihkulokkiI'd have nightmares of that mental image :)14:18
javispedroI just wanted a repo, so don't push very hard X-Fade (I mean I really could just use gitourius or ask dreamhost for yet another svn repo)14:19
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X-Fadejavispedro: No problem, just want to know myself too.14:20
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lcuk2are binaries compiled in diablo sdk usable on fremantle?14:38
thopiekarhii14:38
javispedrolcuk2, this is always a matter of luck14:38
javispedroa bare C console application: for sure14:39
lcuk2but the cpuopcode and binary format itself is compatible14:39
lcuk2cool14:39
javispedrothe opposite is not true though14:39
javispedrothe fremantle toolchain uses arm7 opcodes by default14:39
RST38hqwerty: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=491214:40
javispedrogoing out a but14:40
RST38hqwerty: If you have got a moment, give 'em that code snippet14:40
javispedro* abit :P14:40
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lcuk2ahhh, so a diablo binary would run on  fremantle, but wouldnt necessarily be optimally compiled14:40
RST38h'cause right now it is developing exaclty as I predicted14:40
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Stskeepswb zerojay14:41
zerojayThanks, whomever that was. ;)14:42
qwerty12_N810RST38h: you'll have to wait some hours (it's GTFO the computer time) and I can't remember the exact versions where the move was done. Apart from that: I'll be glad to comply14:42
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RST38hqwerty: My guess is that they will not WONTFIX the bug right away :)14:45
RST38hqwerty: I will look at it myself in the meantime, although as far as hacking xterm is concerned you will be a much more capable choice14:46
qwerty12_N810Not really... you actually know what you're doing :P14:46
RST38hMe? Know?14:47
RST38hqwerty: About that font config thing14:47
RST38hqwerty: Was that for the full font configuration or just a quick Tiny/Small/Normal/Big thing?14:47
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qwerty12_N810it'd be for a "Tiny/Small/Normal/Big thing", it added options to the menu to do what would be done with the zoom buttons14:48
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RST38hAll right, I will make a correct to the tracker14:48
qwerty12_N810(as Benson said: it was useful when rotated (as going to the zoom buttons was a bit annoying if screen was rotated to the right) and I understand Fremantle will have rotation)14:49
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Stskeepszerojay: mer guy who often shows up without a color :P14:51
zerojayHeh14:51
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RST38hqwerty: Not in the applications14:54
RST38hqwerty: If we are lucky, at least the GTK widgets will support rotation14:54
qwerty12_N810Ah, right14:55
lcuk2qwerty12_N810, jeremiah both of you need another big thank you, with the knowedge you two imparted, I have now constructed a standard packaging template for liq* applications and its now hopefully nice and simple to create packages for all the apps i want :)14:57
lcuk2(and keesj, but i havent heard him in chan recently :P014:58
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zerojayIt's not hard to see that having 1000 mp3s in the default media player library wasn't in Nokia's test plans.15:06
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javispedrozerojay, test plans for the fremantle media player? :(15:07
zerojayNo, diablo.15:08
zerojayBetter not be the case for fremantle.15:08
javispedroaww, yes.15:08
zerojayEspecially with 32gb internal.15:08
javispedrohope this MetaTracker thing works OK.15:09
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Mace_N8x0good morning15:09
javispedromorning15:09
lcuk2\o hey macer15:10
javispedroah, the h-a-m bug was fixed15:10
Mace_N8x0hey... going to work on this stuff some more heh15:10
Mace_N8x0have to make an 8G maemo partition tho15:10
lcuk2javispedro, which one15:10
javispedrothe ban on "=" depends15:11
Mace_N8x02G wasnt enough and i have been so damn busy15:11
lcuk2= is evil ho15:11
Mace_N8x0= ?15:11
lcuk2Mace_N8x0, it best have been, i did all my testing on stock internal15:11
javispedroworks well for e.g. data packages containing strings in some binary format15:11
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lcuk2yeah but not so for libraries15:12
Mace_N8x0lcuk, i was trying to build qt on it15:12
Mace_N8x0it ran out haha15:12
lcuk2ahhh15:12
lcuk2i defer to stskeeps original observation - you mad fool :p15:12
Mace_N8x0and i have to learn how to make a repo15:12
Mace_N8x0lol15:12
jeremiahMace_N8x0: Use reprepro15:13
Mace_N8x0if mer could do everything maemo could....15:13
javispedroMace_N8x0, I used reprepro (in my first days before I learned maemo.org was trying to push everything to extras)15:13
jeremiahreprepro is the best tool for serious repos15:13
Mace_N8x0heh.. well, i want to keep it local15:13
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jeremiahdebpool is going to be good too, eventually15:13
Mace_N8x0i will try them out soon15:13
javispedroi liked its "archiving old packages" ability15:14
Mace_N8x0have to be able to make pkgs on the tablet first15:14
Mace_N8x0build and make15:14
Mace_N8x0all from src :)15:14
Mace_N8x0bbl15:14
jeremiahdpkg-buildpackage is your friend15:14
Mace_N8x0jerimah, sure if it works on the tablet15:15
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Mace_N8x0i have to first make a working dev enviroment15:15
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Macerhm15:32
Macerdoes cfdisk have ncurses as a dep now?15:32
qwerty12_N810No, ncurses-base must still be installed manually15:33
Macerok qwerty12_N810 .. thanks. just checking.. going to start teh partitioning section now15:33
qwerty12_N810my excuses for not updating: 1) I'm lazy and 2) it's in extras-devel. Anything goes...15:33
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Anything goes? :)15:34
Macerhah15:34
Macerit's ok. it's just 1 extra step ;) a quick one too15:34
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: well, you know what I mean? :P15:34
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qwerty12_N810Obviously, I wouldn't expect to see something running rm -rf...15:35
qwerty12_N810/15:35
Macerqwerty12_N810: one will slip by... have to grab thsi n810 tha ti left like all the way across the house15:35
Macerdamnit15:35
* javispedro horrors at the idea that running that on his tablet will not only erase his tablet but also his nfs-enabled workstation15:35
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Macerjavispedro: i almost did that once15:39
Macer:)15:39
Macerluckily i sneezed or something and had an epiphany15:39
* qwerty12_N810 actually did that on his tablet. I have a bad habit of running "rm -rf *". When I ran it, I had no idea I was root and I was in /...15:40
lcuk2o_O yikes15:41
* javispedro reads about root_squash cause is already scared15:41
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Enable interactive mode as an alias?15:41
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javispedrohttps://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1307&action=view oh cool, I didn't know I wrote a h-a-m patch ;)15:42
javispedrothis RTCOMM bug can cause serious confusion :D15:42
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: A good idea, but having to answer "yes" is an annoyance to me. Would explain my laziness in using "*" instead of giving file names directly...15:42
Corsaczsh asks me if I'm sure only when I use the wildcard15:43
lcuk2x-fade, false economy - as soon as you get used to it, and you start using rm -rf thinking you are protected...15:44
lcuk2you reinstall a machine or go elsewhere and it wipes everything out15:44
lcuk2much worse15:44
X-FadeHehe, yeah true.15:44
* lcuk2 just avoids the console15:45
javispedroat least on fedora they patched rm not to allow "rm -rf /"15:45
* RST38h sees nothing wrong with rm -rf - less retention = less pain =)15:45
RST38hjavis: And it is just one of many, MANY misfeatures of Fedora...15:45
lcuk2javispedro, but there are circumstances where you want it15:46
lcuk2so i hear15:46
javispedrothen you have to type it in some other way15:46
lcuk2some people in a chan were telling me i could become op if i typed that :(15:46
javispedrolike rm -rf /usr/..15:46
lcuk2how will i become op15:46
RST38hlcuk2: are you ready for some hard work?15:47
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lcuk2im doin some, ive just got a brainf*ck here cos of legacy vb code15:49
RST38hlcuk: Ok, get a lipstick and a map of Sweden15:49
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RST38hlcuk: Using lipstick, copy the map to your display surface15:49
RST38hlcuk: Once you do that, you should instantly become op!15:50
lcuk2o rly?15:50
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lcuk2on that matter, i have been doing tracings recently lol15:50
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glasslcuk2: hehe15:51
glasshey anyone want to collaborate on a chess game?15:52
Macerscrew this. i am too tired to type this out15:52
Maceralthough i have most of it done15:52
Macerbut i have to make screen shots from the n810 and move them over and blahblahblha15:52
Maceri'm going to take a nap. nite15:52
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lcuk2glass a real one, or writing a maemo chess game15:54
zerojayI've somehow broke media player completely.15:55
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glasslcuk2: maemo or other, preferably multiplat15:56
glasslcuk2: maybe just web15:56
glasslcuk2: i got my chess piece set ready, you see :D http://jussin.net/~glass/chs/pieces.png15:56
glasslcuk: chess pieces make for a good modelling practice15:57
glasslcuk: actually i'm pretty sure there would be free chess engines to rip off15:59
RST38hglass: Just port gnu chess15:59
RST38hglass: no need to rip off, port it16:00
RST38hUnless you are satisfied with the gnu chess port from osso-games16:00
glassRST38h: chess is boring against cpu..16:00
RST38hglass: Gnu Chess has multiplayer features16:00
glassso in my 'idea' it would have a server that had game states, and supereasy to start a new game16:00
RST38hDone already16:00
RST38hWaitamoment, will locate info16:01
glassRST38h: i'm busy doing more worthwhile stuff, thus was looking for someone to collaborate with16:01
RST38hglass: http://www.gnu.org/software/chess/chess_faq.html16:01
lcuk2glass, the chess implementation on maemo is actually quite a challenge according to most folks (myself included)16:02
lcuk2we should really use gps for chess16:03
lcuk2and have players running around real city blocks16:03
Stskeepspacman in the streets of london16:03
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glasslcuk2: i'm pretty sure i could find chess programs that would challange me :)..  wouldn't make it much more intresting16:03
lcuk2obviously, it would need a trip to a grid oriented city16:03
glassStskeeps: pill eating and club hopping? isn't that the norm in uk?16:04
lcuk2agreed, heh, with the n900 (assumed cos of your 3d render) you could use the acceleromater to adjust your view16:04
lcuk2to look around the board16:04
glassyeah16:05
lcuk2bbiab16:05
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roopeYes, the Maemo Chess is quite tricky. I even filed a bug against it back in the days. :) I tried to make it easier.16:06
Andy80is Maemo.org down for you?16:06
Stskeepsmaemo chess beats me constantly :/16:06
roopeOr then alternatively I suggested to name the difficulty levels to "Medium", "Hard", "Very Hard".16:06
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Woolyhey guys, I downloaded and installed sdlquake, but it segfaults when I try to run it. It gives a FindFile: can't find gfx/pop.lmp error. Any ideas?16:17
zerojayGot the original game files installed?16:19
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Woolyzerojay: I'm not sure, I downloaded a zip called quakesw... and extracted that into /usr/lib/sdlquake/id116:21
Woolydo I also need a copy of the sdlquake-files.zip extracted there too?16:22
RST38hglass: Generally, GNU Chess made most chess programs obsolete, so I would strongly suggest a close look at it first, before trying to do something on your own16:22
RST38hglass: If you have an itch for writing a game, I would suggest a clone of Eggerland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggerland_%28series%29) preferably in 3D :)16:23
glassRST38h: i got some original ideas too :p16:24
lcuk2make notes16:24
lcuk2flesh them out keep your ideas together16:24
X-FadeInteresting to see how oFono is being tested. Using a usb cable connected to a nokia phone.16:25
X-FadeSo your N810 could do that too :)16:25
Woolyzerojay: Is that what you mean?16:25
javispedrostill not a single screenshot of the call placing gui? :)16:25
zerojayI've never used it, so... Just was a suggestion.16:25
X-Fadejavispedro: ofono is only the framework. So only cli logs ;)16:26
Woolyzerojay: ahh okay, thanks anyway :)16:26
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RST38hglass: Lately, every "original" idea I get, I find it already implemented by some Linux guy :)16:29
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lbtshoulders of giants RST38h16:30
lbt(or lots of midgets anyhow)16:30
lcuk2originality isnt important - look at the ipod, there were 100s of mp3 players16:30
lbtheh.... "Linux... stand on the shoulders of midgets... lots of them"16:30
RST38hlbt: while trying to keep them pacified16:31
divide_by_zeroit's a distributed thing, the power to raise linux come from lots of small ants!16:32
divide_by_zeroemergence16:32
RST38hOh cool there is a screenshot-rich Eggerland site: http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/eggerland/eggerland2.htm16:32
RST38hAnd just one guy cloning it (last version released in 2005)16:32
javispedrothat is a chess game?16:32
* lbt goes to hack fakeroot and ld-linux..... what could possibly go wrong16:32
RST38hjavis: no, just a decent puzzle game16:33
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RST38hjavis: Chess is too easy nowadays (1. Port GNU Chess 2. Done)16:33
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divide_by_zeroEggerland is completely awesome!!!!!!!!! but I am used to the MSX version, the graphics look different16:35
fiferboy_lbt: Have you tried the finger scrolling changes?16:36
* RST38h played them all, MSX and NES16:36
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glassRST38h: my original ideas are not so much as original as rehashes of old stuff as more playable16:36
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glassRST38h: coin-op emulators are a very good source for inspiration16:36
lbtfiferboy: I am building it at the moment... it failed in dh_install :(16:36
RST38hglass: heh, same here :)16:36
RST38hglass: But most dynamic games won't run very well on tablets16:37
fiferboylbt: You went for the packages16:37
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fiferboyI usually call it quits when the library is created :)16:37
glassRST38h: i coded dynamic games as a kid for dos for 386..16:37
lbtfiferboy: Mer build16:37
RST38hglass: And for RPGs, I can't think of anything more fruitful than a decent nethack/Angband port with axonometric UI16:37
lbtYou should see scrolling on the Q716:37
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glassRST38h: plenty of power nowadays on almost every plat if one sticks to basics or trickery16:37
lbt667 Mhz CPU :)16:37
fiferboylbt: That would be nice!16:38
RST38hglass: those PCs had arrow buttons :)16:38
glassRST38h: yeah nethack ui would be sweet16:38
glassRST38h: i've played a lot of it16:38
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* RST38h prefers Angband/Zangband16:38
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divide_by_zerosee you16:39
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X-Fadejavispedro: There?16:40
javispedroyep16:40
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X-Fadejavispedro: Ok, rejection was based on confusion ;)16:40
X-Fadejavispedro: I'm going to try to revert the reject and accept. Let's see if that doesn't break anything ;)16:41
javispedrohope so :) Thanks!16:41
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RST38hX-Fade: "Yes is no and no is yes. Format drive C? [Yes/No]"16:46
javispedrothat's a BOFH ripoff ;)16:46
javispedroi'm sure the original was unixy16:47
X-FadeRST38h: Does recursion come in to play there?16:47
Woolyanyone got sdlquake working on their N810 while booting from MMC?16:48
lcuk2lbt, vid!16:49
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lbtlcuk2: OK, when the latest Qt builds...16:49
lbtremind me16:49
lcuk2lbt, upload a vid16:50
* lbt hears a buzzing sound16:50
RST38hX-Fade: Who knows...16:52
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lopzhola17:05
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X-Fadejavispedro: Looks like it worked. Don't know if you got a mail, but everything should be setup.17:09
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javispedronope, no email.17:10
javispedroI see the repo is up, I'll try to start using it as soon as I sort this caos a bit17:10
javispedrothanks again :)17:11
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lardmanhmm, not liking the look of flights from Berlin to Amsterdam17:13
Mektrain from berlin to amsterdam is perhaps better?17:14
Mekdirect train...17:14
lardmanyeah, will have to look at that17:16
lardmanany thought on which website to try?17:16
Mekbahn.de?17:16
X-Fadelardman: transavia.com 30 euro for the 08:45 on thursday.17:16
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lardmanyeah can't do Thursday have a meeting 'till 4pm17:17
RST38hmoo lardman17:17
X-FadeYeah, friday is at 15:5017:17
lardmanunfortuntely Thursday is in the morning17:17
lardmanhi RST38h17:17
X-Fadelardman: http://www.edreams.com/flights/berlin-amsterdam/17:18
lardmanthanks, will have a look17:19
lardmanouch, getting expensive there17:20
lardman~210euros17:20
X-FadeDoesn't look ok.17:20
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lardmanhmm train is 6h and arrives pretty late17:23
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lardman~80 euros though17:23
qwerty12_N810Perhaps you could find some renting a Segway?17:24
lardmangood call :)17:24
qwerty12_N810*someone17:24
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lcuk2lardman, ride across europe on a wild boar17:26
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lardmanam just looking for where to fly to in the middle, then onto Amsterdam17:27
lardmanperhaps a quick stopover in Ibiza17:27
lardmanright, Berlin -> Luton -> Amsterdam ~£5017:28
lardmanwhat are the thoughts on accommodation atm?17:30
Mekfind a nice bridge to sleep under?17:30
lcuk2sleep where you fall17:30
javispedrouse that Segway to cover yourself?17:30
lcuk2or you can pay for a special hotel.  for some reason they charge by the half hour though17:30
lardmanah17:30
lardmanfree drugs I assume17:31
Mekand you even have to share the room with someone?17:31
lcuk2thats extra17:31
qwerty12_N810I hear there's handcuffs involved17:31
lardmanI've got my wife with me17:32
lardmanso ideal17:32
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* lardman chokes at the cost of the hotel in Berlin17:32
lardman317e is the cheapest rate17:32
lardmanah, silly me, that's for a few days17:33
lardmanthank God17:33
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andre__oh nokia, hildon-libs, hildon-widgets, libhildon, .... we should have a proposal contest at the summit to come up with even more names17:36
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qwerty12_N810hildon-tablet-launch-countdown17:37
_berto_andre__: i don't even know which name to use most of the times :-D17:37
Stskeepswe should rename Mer to Freemantle.17:37
Stskeeps;P17:37
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andre__:-D17:38
andre__"hildon-stuff"?17:38
_berto_hildon is always hildon -> http://www.winecellarsales.co.uk/acatalog/hildon.jpg17:38
timeless_mbpheh17:39
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_berto_we should have ordered a few bottles for GCDS17:39
timeless_mbpandre__: i hope you don't seriously expect me to be able to find the right component in our bugzilla :)17:39
andre__timeless_mbp, found it already17:39
timeless_mbpour = public17:39
timeless_mbpthe internal one is easier17:39
timeless_mbpactually no17:40
andre__public is easy too :)17:40
timeless_mbpnot for this bug17:40
andre__hildon-widgets. that's all.17:40
_berto_file a bug against the organization of bugzilla17:40
timeless_mbpi already reorganized it once17:40
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andre__maemo.org bugzilla is okay. :-P17:41
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andre__it's the tradeoff between "developers' organization" and "users need normal package names to file bugs"17:41
timeless_mbpa table would help17:41
timeless_mbpnormally for localization bugs and spec bugs, the internal one is ok17:42
timeless_mbpfor anything else, the internal one is a disaster17:42
timeless_mbpsadly this isn't really a localization/spec bug17:42
timeless_mbpwell, it is17:42
timeless_mbpbut...17:42
* timeless_mbp goes to see where andre__ put the bug17:43
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andre__internal is quite... complicated.17:43
_berto_you're talking about #4917 ?17:43
andre__yours?17:43
andre__to hildon-widgets of course. that's where it belongs.17:43
andre___berto_, yes17:43
timeless_mbpandre__: thanks, you made the bug much more readable17:43
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andre__heh. welcome17:44
_berto_just saw it17:44
timeless_mbp_berto_: does the bug actually interest you?17:44
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thuxthey say (joey hess) that palm pre spy phone owner, wonder what info, if any these tablets send to nokia?17:45
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_berto_if I understand correctly, we would need those logical strings first, right?17:46
aquatixonly selected webcam images and videos based on sound recognition17:46
_berto_and then we would update hildon-widgets to use the new ones17:46
timeless_mbp_berto_: technically yes, but in practice you can immediately create them17:47
timeless_mbpby just copying the original string to the pair _am / _pm17:47
_berto_yes, but I mean, you're proposing the creation of two strings that don't exist yet?17:47
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zerojayHmm17:48
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Woolyhas anyone tried the VGBA emulator?17:49
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javispedroWooly, yes17:55
WoolyI was thinking of pairing it with a wii remote and the wii remote package, have you tried that also?17:55
javispedronope17:55
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javispedrodepending on how the wii remote package works (the emu is closed source) it may or may not work17:56
Woolyit maps input from the wii remote to x events17:57
Woolysimulating keypressed etc17:57
Woolykeypresses*17:57
javispedroI suppose it'll work then :P17:58
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Woolynow it's just a case of actually getting all my GBA games into the emulator, which I guess cant be talked about here?17:59
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divide_by_zerogreat, just found out my firewall blocks port 6667 but doesn't 8001!...18:09
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lbtlcuk2: how easy is taking a piccy using the camera? I don't suppose : cp /sys/camera/photo /file.jpg works18:35
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lcuk2lbt, no liqbase uses a simplified gstreamer stack/thingy18:38
lbtok, nm then18:38
lcuk2there is meant to be a gstreamer command line interface that you could use18:38
lbtstupid driver should be exposed via /sys/18:38
lcuk2i think there is a photosink18:38
lcuk2however for a one shot deal, camera would take >10seconds to warm up18:39
lcuk2whichever way you do it18:39
lbtstill, I guess jpg libs in the kernel may not be so hot ;)18:39
lcuk2heh18:39
lcuk2dont see why not tho, use it to compress all that meaningless driver code18:40
lcuk2it should still look kinda right when you get it back ;)18:40
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mgedmindoesn't the camera use v4l?18:43
lcuk2yes "v4l2src"18:44
lcuk2on n810, dunno if its the same on new device18:45
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lardmanRight, all booked19:03
lardman:)19:03
* keesj is still alive19:04
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lardmancu all later19:06
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lcuk2keesj, good to hear it \o19:14
lcuk2keesj, what was the name of that camera eye software you had in copenhagen19:15
lcuk2lardman was talking about wanting to look into it19:16
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keesjlasertraq19:20
keesjand motion for the still motion movie I created19:21
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lcuk2excellent, cool thx19:22
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lcuk2the motion one is especially interesting :)19:22
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keesjhere is the movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pf9FFojvjE19:26
keesjI think the problem with motion was that is doesn't use gstreamer but the v4lv1 api19:28
ShadowJKhm?19:30
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ShadowJKiirc asking for yuv from v4l1 leads to kernel crapping out19:30
keesjthe cam is v4l2 AFAICR19:30
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ShadowJKor v4l2..19:31
ShadowJKI don't think either will give out yuv without kernel going bananas, despite driver claiming it can give out yuv :)19:32
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keesjhow's lcuk2 doing?19:45
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lcuk2keesj, im quite good actually19:51
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lcuk2ive finally stopped pulling my hair out19:52
keesjhappy with the Google SoC stuff?19:54
keesjanyway good new I guess19:55
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lcuk2keesj, yeah, z4chh has been doing well and things are looking and feeling a lot better20:02
lcuk2apologies for lag, im makin t20:03
z4chho.o20:04
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lcuk2z4chh, oh you do come in this chan20:04
z4chhlol im always idle here20:04
lcuk2idle is the word :P20:04
z4chhyar20:05
lcuk2in all chans20:05
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lcuk2z4chh are you goin to any of the us gsoc events20:06
lcuk2(are there any happening?)20:06
keesjI am not dead I am idle :p20:06
lcuk2:D irc ran out of ink20:08
lcuk2are you comin to the summit kees?20:08
keesjof course20:09
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lcuk2excellent, are you presenting anything20:10
WoolyI've just downloaded VGBA, but dont have any games for it yet; is there anywhere I can get them from?20:10
keesjI also need to help find hotels and such near the location (not that easy)20:10
lcuk2yeah you do20:10
keesjno , I didn't plan on doing that20:10
lcuk2most hotels nearby charge rooms at half hourly rates20:10
aol ;D20:11
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lcuk2Wooly, gameboy roms are something you would have to find on your own - they are afterall copyrighted20:11
zerojayYou can dump them yourself too.20:12
lcuk2do you need extra hardware?20:12
zerojayYep20:12
lcuk2ahhh i thought the new style card readers mightv included cb cart slots lol20:12
Woolyunfortunately, I dont have the GBA card reader unfortunately :(20:13
Luke-JrWooly: it's not too hard to find GB ROMs online20:13
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Luke-Jras long as you're only downloading, there's no risk to you20:13
zerojayIt's still illegal.20:14
Luke-Jrnot the downloading20:14
lcuk2yes, it is.20:14
WoolyI'll take a look when I get home :)20:14
Luke-Jrno20:14
zerojayYes, the downloading20:14
Luke-Jrin most countries, the illegality is on the uploader20:14
zerojayThat's not the case.20:14
Luke-Jrzerojay: then downloading nVidia's blob drivers for Linux is illegal. enjoy your conclusion.20:15
lcuk2no, they go after the uploader to stop at source, but downloading copyrighted material is illegal20:15
lcuk2its like drug users and drug dealers20:15
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Luke-Jrit's not.20:15
zerojayPossession of rom images are also illegal.20:15
Luke-Jrpossession of drugs is actually illegal20:15
Luke-Jrzerojay: no20:15
zerojayYes20:15
Luke-Jrpossession of ROM images is a right guaranteed by copyright law20:15
GAN800Legal Advice by Luke-Jr20:16
lcuk2if you own the rom20:16
zerojayI'm writing this from my desk in the ubisoft building.20:16
GAN800Do you have commercials?20:16
Luke-Jrlcuk2: if you bought the game at all, even if on a cartridge20:16
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zerojayIt's illegal, if you have a legal copy of the game or not.20:16
frenkyhi20:16
Woolybut Luke-Jr do you ever actually own the ROM?20:16
lcuk2frenky, you best get a helmet and flak jacket20:16
WoolyLuke-Jr: or do you just own the right to play it?20:16
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Luke-JrWooly: generally, you license use of it20:17
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zerojayYou only buy a license.20:17
Luke-Jrwhich under copyright law entitles you to a backup20:17
zerojayBuzzzz20:17
zerojayNot for console games.20:17
zerojayThere's an exception made.20:17
Luke-Jrzerojay: where in copyright law is there an exception for "console games"?20:18
Luke-Jrfurthermore, where is "console games" defined in law?20:18
Luke-Jrthere is no difference between "console games" and "non-console games"20:18
Luke-Jrthey're both mere data20:18
zerojayI've got work to do. The rom images are illegal, plain and simple.20:18
Luke-Jrnonsense, zerojay20:18
Luke-Jrit's just FUD20:18
zerojayIt's not.20:19
lcuk2most roms come with copyright protection circuits/software encryption - the DMCA makesz it explicitely forbidden to break these i believe20:19
zerojayBingo.20:19
Luke-Jrlcuk2: that's another matter20:19
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lcuk2thats the law20:19
ShadowJKI thought dmca only bans "effective" protections :-)20:19
lcuk2don't copy that floppy20:19
ShadowJKonly bans breaking of...20:19
Luke-Jrif someone else breaks it, though, it doesn't affect your right to have a backup copy20:19
Woolyhandbags at dawn20:19
Luke-Jralso20:19
javispedroat, the eternal debate.20:19
Luke-JrGB games mostly don't have any kind of protection20:20
woglindehi javis20:20
zerojayBackup does not apply and all eulas for games that you agree to for games make you give up that right anyways.20:20
javispedrohi all20:20
Luke-Jrzerojay: when I buy a game, I never agree to an EULA20:20
zerojayBeing on the cart counts as protection.20:20
Woolyi didn't think the EULA was enforceable by law?20:20
zerojayYes, you do.20:20
Luke-JrEULAs have no legal force in most cases20:20
Luke-Jrbecause you never agree to them20:21
Luke-Jrif I pay $100 for a license, and it is accepted, and I have not had to agree to any contract, that's the end of it20:21
zerojayYou agree to them when you remove the shrink wrap.20:21
Luke-Jrzerojay: nope20:21
aolwhich country's law are you talking about20:21
zerojayLol20:21
Luke-Jrnobody sees the EULA before you remove the shrink wrap20:22
aolor are you assuming every country has same laws20:22
zerojayI'm sitting here with a lawyer laughing at this.20:22
zerojayHave fun, lol20:22
Woolyhttp://www.sealandgov.org/20:22
aolI'm sitting here with queen of England20:23
Woolywell ladies, I'd love to stay and chat, but I feel if I dont get out of work soon, I might kill a kitten20:23
aolshe's not amused20:23
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Luke-Jr"The enforceability of an EULA depends on several factors, one of them being the court in which the case is heard. Some courts that have addressed the validity of the shrinkwrap license agreements have found some EULAs to be invalid, characterizing them as contracts of adhesion, unconscionable, and/or unacceptable pursuant to the U.C.C."20:23
divide_by_zeroWhat if you have a computer virus that goes on accepting all eulas without you ever reading them?20:23
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zerojayRegardless of eula, it's illegal, case closed.20:23
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Woolytattie bye folks20:23
Luke-JrROMs are a guaranteed right in copyright law. Breaking copy protection is illegal, but does not repeal that right AFAIK20:24
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zerojayIt's not guaranteed.20:24
Luke-Jrand cartridges are a medium of data storage, not copy protection20:24
javispedroit's definitely illegal, but what isn't?20:24
GAN800Public beatings of javispedro. :P20:25
divide_by_zeroi've heard in some places even suicide is illegal!20:25
zerojayIn the us, it's illegal since 83 to make backups of game roms.20:25
lcuk2common sense says: someone spent time and money to create that rom and its not your place to second guess their licensing choices20:25
lcuk2so unless it says "you can copy this game/rom/program.   dont do it20:26
RST38hWhat ROMs?20:26
zerojayThe law allowingbackups was made for magnetic media which fails fast.20:26
GAN800Common sense says copyright should be for a reasonable term.20:26
javispedroi don't know, have you been discussing this since I departed?20:26
RST38hGentlemen, first of all if you dump an unencrypted ROM, you are not breaking copyright protection20:26
zerojayCarts do not fall into that.20:26
lcuk2GAN800, all software created before 1908 is in the public domain20:26
RST38hzerojay: Encrypted cards like NDS do not20:26
Luke-Jrzerojay: the law specifically says "magnetic media"?20:26
* javispedro checks the logs20:27
javispedroah, some guy asked for gba roms here.20:27
RST38hSecondly, if you own the actual ROM, the only thing that prevents from using it out of the cartridge form is the EULA20:27
zerojayAtari vs Js&A - look it up.20:27
zerojayWrong, rst.20:27
RST38hAtari actually took some effort to protect their ROMs20:27
lcuk2yeah, they set up missile defenses near athe major cities!20:28
* lcuk2 loves that game20:28
zerojayIllegal, protection or not.20:28
javispedrozerojay, I'm not sure about that last affirmation.20:29
zerojayAt least in nthe us.20:29
javispedroafaik there are dead-simple copy protection schemes20:29
RST38hzerojay: That is one court case based on the false assumption by the court. Should I quote?20:29
javispedrojust designed so that you can say "yes, I put it one! see!!"20:29
zerojayPlease do.20:29
RST38h"The court found that a computer program embedded within a piece of hardware, such as the ROMs used within a typical videogame cartridge, cannot be reprogrammed or erased."20:30
Luke-JrAtari vs JS&A looks utterly retarded20:30
Luke-Jrit had nothing to do with breaking copy protection or such20:30
RST38hzerojay: The problem here is that ROMs *can* be erased, even if they are mask ROMs20:30
zerojayRegardless, it set up the way things are.20:30
RST38hzerojay: And you do not even need to physically destroy the chip20:30
Luke-JrJS&A needs to get better witnesses20:30
zerojayRoms are far less volitile than magnetic media.20:31
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ShadowJKroms are hardwired...20:31
RST38hShadow: What kind of ROMs?20:31
RST38hShadow: I know of at least 320:31
RST38hShadow: One is electrically erasable20:32
Luke-Jrzerojay: not true20:32
RST38hShadow: One can be erased by UV radiation20:32
zerojayHaha20:32
ShadowJKEEPROM and EPROM? :-)20:32
zerojayI guess the sky is red in your world.20:32
Luke-JrROMs can easily break by power surge or such20:32
RST38hShadow: And the last one is mask ROMs which are supposed to be unerasable but can be fucked up all the same20:32
zerojayThat's far more rare.20:32
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Luke-JrOptical media, like CDs, have a better argument than ROMs20:32
RST38hzerojay: Mask ROMs? Everywhere in game carts.20:33
ShadowJKmask ROMs are like any other circuitry... breaks the same way20:33
Luke-Jrzerojay: more rare than a super-strong magnet?20:33
RST38hShadowJK: Almost...20:33
zerojayYes.20:33
Luke-Jrpower surges are more common than super-strong magnets20:33
zerojayEverytime magnetic media is read, it's slightly corrupted.20:33
Luke-Jrzerojay: Atari vs JS&A was effectively overturned by Vault vs Quaid20:33
RST38hShadowJK: Except that correctly applied high (+24V or so) voltage is known to make...mm..."modifications" to them20:33
zerojayTherefore why you have  the right to backups.20:34
ShadowJKThey're far more likely to break when the user has his machine full of grit, shit and dust, and then rubs the cart against his wool sweatshirt to "clean" it..20:34
RST38hAlso, the case is based on the idea that the user backs up the ROM20:34
RST38hThe user may also choose to USE the ROM in a system different from the one it was designed for20:34
Luke-Jrthat's also legal20:34
RST38hIn this case, the only thing stopping him is the EULA20:34
zerojayLol20:34
Luke-JrEULAs have no legal force here20:35
RST38hWell, this depends on the country20:35
RST38hAnd the way these EULAs are presented to the user20:35
RST38hNintendo used to have them tucked away in the game booklets20:35
zerojayIt's hilarious that i'm here with an expert on this law and you guys are saying he's wrong, hahaha20:36
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aolEULAs dont mean shit over here20:36
zerojayAnyways, back to submission testing... Fun fun.20:36
Luke-Jrzerojay: a biased "expert" I bet20:36
Stskeepszerojay: ah, you're at work :)20:36
aol(Finland)20:36
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zerojayIndeed, i am at work.20:36
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zerojayOne of the best jobs in the world even on bad days.20:37
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Luke-Jrsure you want a company lawyer to know you're slacking off on IRC on company time? ;)20:38
zerojayDid you know the world click is banned from all games for nintendo platforms?20:38
zerojayI work in a game studio. It's not nose to the grindstone stuff. :)20:39
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zerojayAll my work for the week is already done anyways.20:39
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aolI did not know I care20:39
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X-FadeNot that is a concept: "All my work is done"20:40
X-FadeSweet!20:40
zerojayNow you know.20:40
timeless_mbphello world20:40
linuxeventuallyWhy is "click" banned? o.O20:40
X-Fades/Not/Now/20:40
zerojayWell, there are just times when work is blocked... So...20:40
timeless_mbpaol: are you near HEL?20:41
aolyeah20:41
X-Fadezerojay: And then there is nothing else you can do?20:41
zerojayClick is banned because they want you to use terms like press and push.20:41
X-Fadezerojay: That is a single track line of work then ;)20:41
linuxeventuallyAh20:41
zerojayNot for the moment.20:41
timeless_mbpaol: at some point we'll probably go off to dinner near kamppi in case you're really nearby :)20:41
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zerojayNo, not usually. This is one of those times though.20:42
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: Your job must be good, too; you're always on IRC ;P20:42
aoltimeless_mbp: sounds good20:42
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Ah, but I'm getting payed to scan it ;)20:42
qwerty12_N810lol, getting paid for IRC :P20:43
qwerty12_N810That is a real job :(20:43
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Well not exactly, but yeah it is one of the ways information comes in yes.20:44
GAN800lol20:46
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zerojayBe a social marketer. You can just sit and post to twitter every few days. ;)20:47
javispedro:D20:47
javispedroand twitter posts are 140-ish chars20:47
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javispedroso you're not going to get RSI either20:47
zerojayProbably another job i'm going to be absorbing here.20:47
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aolmy hobby == my work20:51
aolit's odd it's still fun :)20:51
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zerojayWhat do you do?20:51
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aolprogramming20:51
divide_by_zeroprogramming what with what? :]20:53
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zerojayComputers with fingers. ;)20:54
aolC++ and mobile devices20:54
aolI don't care much which platform as the applications is what I like doing, not the platform itself20:54
zerojayDid mobile games with java and brew for a while until the company switched focus.20:55
aolnevertheless I'm quite excited about RX-5120:55
lcuk2the platform decides the options available20:55
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zerojayEver worked on the nokia 3650/7650?20:55
aolyes.20:56
zerojayWhat hell.20:56
glassas well20:56
glasserm. not on the platform itself20:56
aolI did lot of stuff for the first S6020:56
aolapps, not the platform20:56
zerojayGarbage collection was completely broken. Lol20:56
glassaol: though do mmf plugins count as part of plat?20:56
lcuk2apps need the platform to stand on20:56
aolI do C++, I dont care for garbage collection20:56
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glassactually one could do very nice stuff for j2me on 365020:57
glassthe vm was just full of bugs20:57
zerojayThe phone just never would remove anything marked dirty20:57
zerojayYep.20:57
glassfor example the nokia triangle drawing method20:57
glassif you used it as the first thing, it crashed the whole phone20:57
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glassbut if you placed, say 10 meaningless color settings, it didn't crash20:58
zerojayThere was a nice samsung whose drawline method was off by one pixel.20:58
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glassheh20:58
zerojayIf you drew 1 pixel lines... Well... Nothing would show.20:58
aolsounds like just normal day with Symbian20:58
zerojayPretty much.20:59
lcuk2sounds liek a normal day with computers20:59
aolnowadays it's better as you can go read the source code20:59
aolbut that's pretty new in symbian world20:59
zerojayYeah, we didn't have that chance back then20:59
glassaol: once one learnt the holes, gamedev on j2me on 3650 became a breeze20:59
aolyeah well application development on 3rd edition is the same21:00
glassaol: but i knew c++ would be faster.. which is why turned to it21:00
zerojayEven gameloft couldn't figure out the 3650.21:00
aolI know pretty much 20 ways to make different phones to freeze totally :)21:00
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glassi just got my first m3g cube to show up!21:00
glasson the subject21:00
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ipndrmathQuestion: Is there a way to lock and unlock the N810 via the command line?21:01
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aolnow I'm learning iPhone ... I thought it would be wise to come out of the closet early21:01
lcuk2glass, which platform21:01
aolbut I refused to swap my work phone to iPhone .... as I'm waiting for RX-51 :D21:01
zerojayWe've been using unity for iphone dev.21:02
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aolmy company does sw for iphone, maemo, symbian, blackberry, android and windows mobile so it's quite nice to learn different stuff21:03
aolI guess it would be quite risky to do only symbian projects, as you can loose your business overnight at some point21:04
aolor Windows Mobile ... or ....21:04
javispedroor Palm.21:04
aolyes21:04
javispedro(which has happened recently so it's a good example ;) )21:04
aolmost of the stuff is still Symbian21:05
aollot of iPhone and Android lately .. surprisingly WM too21:05
aolI guess there is some push because of 6.521:05
VDVsxconsultancy company or a real software house ? :)21:07
glasslcuk2: j2me on symbian21:08
glasslcuk2: i wanna find out how usable it could be21:09
zerojayOne of our worst programmers was let go last year and he started working for a consultancy company.21:09
glasszerojay: he wont work forever21:09
zerojayWhich works almost exclusively for the government.21:09
glassah, 4 years then21:09
zerojayWhich explains why the government sent me a check for $-0.00 last week.21:09
ipndrmathOr ... does anyone know the softkey (i.e. F1) for the lock slider?21:10
VDVsxipndrmath, did you tried to inspect the d-bus message, while you lock and unlock the device ?21:11
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aolVDVsx: software factory21:12
aolVDVsx: no own products21:12
qwerty12_N810ipndrmath: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=2059921:12
ipndrmathNo I hadn't. I'm currently away from the device and VNCed in, but it doesn't respond as the device is locked.21:12
ipndrmathk, thax one min21:13
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, just found the same21:13
VDVsx:)21:13
qwerty12_N810:)21:13
VDVsxgoogle skills , lol21:13
aolwe don't really do concultancy, but software projects .... just with other peoples ideas (and risk :)21:13
ipndrmathAh, thanks. My search skills failed me.21:13
ipndrmathI appreciate it. :)21:14
VDVsxaol, ah, now I get it :)21:14
VDVsxipndrmath, :)21:15
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z4chhX-Fade,21:22
z4chharound? :P21:22
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javispedrobah21:33
javispedrohum21:33
javispedroer.. nothing.21:34
lcuk2heh21:34
javispedrozerojay, do you have some benchmarks about that snesadvance.dat thing? some games I tested gain "a mere" 5fps, while others lose 1fps.21:35
lcuk2javispedro, how did your frame skip timing loop doofer go21:35
javispedrolcuk2, it's a monster now :P21:35
javispedrobut I like it21:36
* RST38h moos21:36
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zerojayNo. Sorry21:36
javispedroit plans when the next frame "should" be drawn21:36
RST38hjavis: what have you optimized?21:36
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javispedroi was trying to use the snesadvance dat thing, which is a db of "patches" to games21:37
javispedrothey basically list at which point the game is waiting for the video irq21:37
javispedroso that emu can just fire it at that point and skip the wait21:37
RST38hoh21:39
RST38hbad, bad kludge21:39
javispedrovideo irq, i mean the blanking interrupt or whatever is called21:39
* RST38h never falls this low21:39
javispedrothey say it helps a lot21:40
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RST38hit's cheating21:40
javispedrobut I guess the limit on the n8x0 is still rendering and not cpu emu21:40
Luke-Jrit's optimizing21:40
RST38hno, this one is cheating21:40
RST38hjavis: Not really :)21:40
Luke-Jris it?21:41
zerojayIt is cheating, but that's why they are called speed hacks. ;)21:41
Luke-Jrsounds to me like nooping a second-counter and providing that value in native code when needed21:41
RST38hYou have not seen speed hacks21:41
zerojayRighhht.21:41
zerojayDamn ndas.21:42
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Luke-Jrthat said, shouldn't a N8x0 be able to emulate something as old as a SNES easily?21:42
RST38hYes and no21:42
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RST38h65816 CPU should not be a problem if done in ARM assembler21:42
zerojayEmulators are getting more accurate, so as work continues, it'll get slower.21:43
RST38hVideo is a bitch though. SNES supports up to 4 (?) playfields overlaid on top of each other21:43
javispedroyep21:43
javispedroa lot21:43
zerojayBsnes is bus-accurate.21:43
RST38h+ sprites, + rotation21:43
RST38h+ color effecs21:43
zerojayYes, 421:43
RST38hNobody needs bus-accurate21:44
zerojayRotation only on background layers.21:44
RST38hAs long as it plays the games nobody cares how it is done21:44
zerojayAside from sprites.21:44
RST38hAlso, there is APU21:44
javispedrothe cpu is already in ARM (that's the main difference from previous snes ports).21:44
RST38hSNES APU is a separate CPU21:44
javispedrothe spc700 too.21:44
javispedro(in ARM I mean)21:44
zerojayTrue, in general.21:45
javispedroa bit verbosey for my linking though.21:45
RST38hAnd then there is sound problem21:45
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javispedro*liking.21:45
RST38hIf you do not fill up audio buffer in time, your sound will suck (see VGBA)21:45
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javispedroi prefer reasonable audio and playable games.21:46
Luke-JrFreeciv!21:46
lcuk2RST38h, cant you cheat re graphics, or do you need pixel perfect21:46
RST38hjavis: If you can't get into 50fps or higher, there will be audio problem21:46
RST38hlcuk: Goooood question21:47
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javispedroRST38h, the cpu is not the problem.21:47
javispedrorendering is.21:47
RST38hlcuk: You cant, usually, because the resolution is already 256x22421:47
RST38hjavis: exactly21:47
zerojayYou can cheat some stuff like mode 7.21:47
RST38hjavis: and only when you have got enough playfields21:47
lcuk2original liqbase has a 512*448 resolution specifically for this ;)21:47
RST38hjavis: One or two playfields are fine21:47
lcuk2when discussing it with pupnik lol21:47
javispedrowhich means than audio only gets bad if the thing can't keep up while frameskipping21:48
RST38hcorrect21:48
javispedroor if the sync code is awful (which may be the case :P ;) )21:48
RST38hbut you can't frameskip more than 70% frames21:48
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zerojayBut not much.21:48
RST38hjavis: at some point you will come to conclusion that you cannot sync with the physical audio21:49
lcuk2RST38h, last thing i heard, there was an RGB xv mode somewhere around21:49
zerojayFrameskip also kills control.21:49
RST38hno21:49
RST38hyou can still read controls at full rate21:49
javispedroin fact I currently do, which I shouldn't21:50
zerojayYes, i know, but the perception that you lost some control happens anyways.21:50
RST38hjavis: So, leave the physical audio run and just top up the phsysical buffer21:50
javispedrothis follows a nice approach. there's a separate thread "rendering" audio.21:50
RST38hzerojay: As I said, anything with >70% frameskip is doomed to suck21:50
RST38hjavis: there always is21:51
javispedrosince the apu is mostly separated from the rest of the snes it makes sense21:51
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RST38hjavis: in some cases you do not have a thread, you just have hardware dma21:51
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javispedrobtw, xsp is very nice21:52
RST38hxsp is?21:52
javispedroeither it interpolates a bit or I am losing sight, cause it looks god.21:52
javispedropixel doubling21:53
RST38hOh21:53
RST38hOk, you may want to look at my stuff21:53
RST38hAnd win yourself a few fps21:53
RST38hThe nice interpolated effect you see is probably caused by hardware zooming in N81021:54
RST38hBut you can access it directly, this way you avoid X1121:54
javispedrooh, you are fms!21:56
javispedrolol I didn't know !21:56
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javispedrowell, gotta go, will need to read a goot git tutorial :)22:01
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lcuk2X-Fade, (or anyone) how long before "queued for loading into repository" and availablility in the repository22:12
lcuk2is it pot luck? 3 weeks? 10 minutes?22:13
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johnsqHi22:16
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lcuk2hi johnsq22:19
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divide_by_zerocya22:43
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: sent you mail @gmail - the HAM strings are probably obsolete in 0.16 though22:51
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lcuk2if i install a .deb by double clicking, would it look on the repositories for dependencies23:14
qwerty12_N810Nope23:14
johnsqlcuk2: no, but fails, if something missing23:15
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lcuk2dang23:15
lcuk2can i have a .install file to start install of a library23:15
lcuk2which normally wouldnt be listed23:16
zakkmlcuk2: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/install/extras-devel.install ?23:16
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lcuk2zakkm, not what im after23:16
lcuk2ive got an app binary .deb - its not in extras-devel23:16
lcuk2but the library is23:16
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zakkmyou want a .install that will install library then apps?23:17
qwerty12_N810lcuk2: No, packages without a category that is not user/ cannot be installed directly (in blue pill mode), only as part of a dependency of another program that has a section of user/23:17
lcuk2how can that library be installed by someone thats not a command line ninja23:17
zakkm.deb open in application manage,r and checks repository for the dependencies , doesnt it?23:18
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lcuk2o_O you are right23:18
lcuk2it does23:18
lcuk2its only dpkg -i that doesnt23:18
lcuk2thats it zakkm, it will do it then?23:18
zakkmif library is in repository,, and they open deb in application manager23:19
zakkmit will download the dependencies from repository23:19
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zakkmif commandline.. it wont get23:19
lcuk2because from a command line, you go straight to dpkg23:19
zakkmdpkg -i cant read repositories23:19
lcuk2instead of the fluff around it23:19
zakkmapplication manager will apt-get the libs itself23:19
lcuk2perfect! :D23:19
fiferboyHow is opening a local deb in the app manager any different from double-clicking on it?23:19
zakkmits not23:19
zakkmif you double click it, it opens app manager and opens deb23:20
zakkmits the same thing with a different route23:20
lcuk2fiferboy, no, i didnt know what app it brought up23:20
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zakkmbut if you do dpkg -i ____ .. it doesnt read repositories, dpkg doesnt do that23:20
zakkmapp manager will read the dependency part of the deb file, get them through repository , and then dpkg -i the deb23:21
fiferboyHave you tried that?  I thought it failed if it didn't have the dependencies already installed...23:21
qwerty12_N810It does.23:21
* lcuk2 cannot test really23:21
zakkmlcuk2: ill test if you want?23:22
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lcuk2ive got the libs installed by non standard means23:22
zakkmi got a empty maemo install23:22
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Does fail, or does process deps?23:22
zakkmsend theee deb23:22
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: fails23:22
fiferboyI was pretty sure it would23:22
qwerty12_N810You get a nice "Application packages missing"23:22
zakkmthats only if its not in repository,  isnt it qwerty12_N810 ?23:22
zakkmthe dependencies23:22
qwerty12_N810It only resolves dependencies if the program you are installing is in a repository23:23
lcuk2:(23:23
lcuk2do i have to make my own repo?23:24
lcuk2shite!   liqbase is fast.   i'd forgotten how quick23:25
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lcuk2hmmm23:25
lcuk2bbl23:25
Tomaterris there an unzipper for maemo?23:27
qwerty12_N810I assume you mean something graphical? If so, there's xarchiver in Extras23:28
Tomaterrty23:28
Tomaterrawesome23:29
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woglindere javis23:34
Tomaterrisn't xarchiver just a front end?23:34
qwerty12_N810Yes, but there is also unzip in the same repository23:35
qwerty12_N810(Should be better than the Busybox one...)23:35
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