IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-08-11

MaceN810haha00:00
MaceN810there isnt a reset loop00:00
MaceN810yet?00:00
Woollywoglinde: you're a genius haha00:00
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woglindeWoolly nope I know the ceavats of sb00:02
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MaceN810grep works00:07
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MaceN810heh00:07
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MaceN810im on diffutils now00:09
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Luke-JrMaceN810: you forgot Gentoo00:15
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MaceN810luke huh?00:24
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MaceN810i dont want gentoo00:24
MaceN810i want stock maemo with the ability to builc src and make deb pkgs00:25
MaceN810diffutils works ;)00:25
RST38hfries with that? =)00:25
MaceN810next...00:25
MaceN810rst, almost there00:25
MaceN810hehe00:25
RST38hheh00:25
MaceN810just testing with abiword for now00:26
MaceN810anything it fails to configure .. i build on the tablet00:26
MaceN810and install00:26
MaceN810or replace its bin00:26
MaceN810with a new one00:26
MaceN810so far so good00:26
MaceN810;)00:26
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MaceN810i dont see a need for gentoo00:27
MaceN810when you already have a debian base system00:28
MaceN810with the hardware working :)00:28
johnsqMaceN810: I have had debian before gentoo, i will never back.00:29
Luke-JrMaceN810: stock maemo is not maintained by anyone00:31
johnsqMaceN810: but I'm developer, i can use the sources.00:31
MaceN810luke, doesnt need to be00:32
MaceN810the apps do00:33
MaceN810linux is only a kernel00:33
MaceN810if everything works00:33
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MaceN810there is no need for a new one00:33
Luke-JrMaceN810: fail. Maemo is the OS-- not just the kernel, but the apps00:33
RST38hthat is what linuxoids always claim once somebody starts complaining about userland00:33
MaceN810haha00:33
MaceN810luke, if you can build from src00:34
MaceN810then you can just update apps from src00:34
johnsqRST38h: yeah, but less people are working on apps, all are only packing and adapting.00:34
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RST38hadapting what? =)00:34
MaceN810john, because the apps work00:34
MaceN810heh00:34
johnsqRST38h: hildonizing00:35
MaceN810either way. i would rather work with maemo400:35
RST38hah, you mean maemo00:35
MaceN810i like sound00:35
MaceN810and the gpa00:35
MaceN810gps00:35
MaceN810and adhoc networking00:35
MaceN810to tether to my phone00:36
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MaceN810if the hardware works i think it is best to build on that00:36
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StskeepsMaceN810: you really have no idea about the complexity of some of this stuff..00:36
MaceN810heh.. no i guess not00:37
MaceN810;)00:37
MaceN810im oversimplifying arent i?00:37
Stskeepsyes, you are00:37
woglindelalalalaa00:37
RST38hbtw, gps or no gps on n900?00:40
StskeepsRST38h: liblocation-dev..00:40
Stskeepswould be insane not to have it00:40
RST38hhehe00:40
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RST38hyou never know, Mako has no Wifi for example00:40
StskeepsGPS as an example - on a N8x0, there's gpsdriver, a binary blob, which translates between the chipset and typical NMEA. this is in turn connected to gps. now, most maemo apps use a helper library called libgpsmgr, and libgpsbt. those are fairly simple libraries but they do stuff like turn on gpsd, handy helper functions, or setting up connections to bluetooth GPSes.00:40
Stskeeps-> MaceN81000:41
Stskeepss/gps/gpsd00:41
Stskeepsthose two helper libraries are also closed source which doesn't make it hell lot easier to get some sane usage of GPS out:)00:41
MaceN810heh00:42
Stskeepsalong with this there's a wide range of pipelines between these things that has to be implemented00:42
alteregoliblocation looks good.00:42
Stskeepsalterego: rather simplistic really.. i think they're lacking location modelling00:42
MaceN810sts, which are part of the 20%?00:42
alteregoOnly a first go :)00:42
lcuk2Stskeeps, you could just as well be talking about the move to qt lol00:42
alteregoSubmit a bu report/feature enhancement request :P00:42
MaceN810lcuk haha00:43
StskeepsMaceN810: anyway, what it does take is someone in community to pick up the torch cos noone else is going to do it for you otherwise :P00:43
lcuk2MaceN810, i wish i was joking :)00:43
StskeepsMaceN810: i can't personally touch liblocation, libgps and such for a while due to my previous work.00:43
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lcuk2but think of the ladies who will swoon around such a rockstar dev who reigns in gps00:44
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Stskeeps(i can actually easily reimplement liblocation, it's fairly easy.)00:44
MaceN810HAHAHA00:44
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alteregoPrevious work for a gps manufacturer? :)00:45
lcuk2lo lbt00:45
lcuk2professional stalker00:45
Stskeepsalterego: nah, research work, part uni part commercial company00:45
Stskeepsif i went ahead for a little while and did something like liblocation my uni could claim rights :)00:45
lcuk2technically they couldnt00:46
lcuk2if however you took the code you wrote whilst there they could00:46
Stskeepslcuk2: danish law is a bit awkward in this manner00:46
Stskeepslcuk2: and code in liblocation would be very similar as there's really only one way to do it :P00:46
lcuk2viva poland ftw :D00:46
qwerty12_N810Now we really know the reason for your move to Poland!00:46
Stskeepsexactly ;)00:46
lcuk2nahhh00:47
lcuk2theres many ways to get a list of cities00:47
lcuk2and show them on a map00:47
lcuk2and have a little database to read from00:47
Stskeepsthat's libcityinfo :P00:47
lcuk2would make a great student project00:47
lcuk2damn00:47
lcuk2which is location then00:47
StskeepsGPS, gsm cell id, etc..00:48
lcuk2fuck that then, thats hard00:48
lcuk2really would take a rockstar dev lol00:48
Stskeepsnot really00:48
javispedroa only-GPS stub would do the job for now00:48
lcuk2gfi00:48
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Stskeepslcuk2: most of the stuff is hooking into gpsd and just spitting out whatever it sends :P00:50
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Stskeepsand turn on GPS + driver00:51
lcuk2just a simple protocol then00:51
lcuk2streams of numbers00:51
lcuk2and a bit of post processing00:51
lcuk2or muchly?00:51
Stskeepsreally no postprocessing00:51
lcuk2ive just been mucking about with the accelerometer on my x4100:51
lcuk2and that has similar00:52
lcuk2just a stream of data :)00:52
lcuk2its lovely00:52
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Stskeepsanyway i'm off to bed :P00:52
* lcuk2 goes back to the batcave00:54
Woollyhas anyone done swig stuff afore?00:56
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alteregoI looked at it, it looks rubbish :P00:58
Woollyhaha00:58
alteregoAt least for what I Wanted to do.00:58
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lcuk2qwerty12_N810, did you once say that the osso registration and service aspect can be defined within the .sh file i use to run01:00
lcuk2im not changing it now01:00
lcuk2but if it can i will make a note for later01:00
alteregoI think there's some environment variables.01:01
qwerty12_N810No, I said that hildon-desktop won't kill a program ran from a script if you use X-Osso-Service and don't osso_initalize01:01
alteregoOh, I was thinking of something else ..01:01
lcuk2ahh, thats cool then.  ill note that part.  ta dude01:01
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inzqwerty, does it kil the script?01:05
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inzqwerty, (i thought it was dbus-daemon that did the killing)01:06
qwerty12_N810I'd assume not otherwise the application you were running would also be killed :)01:06
qwerty12_N810inz: probably right :)01:06
MaceN810configure: error: `png.h' not found, install libpng or specify CPPFLAGS to include custom locations01:10
MaceN810hm01:10
MaceN810is there a libpng pkg somewhere?01:10
lcuk2libpng12-dev01:10
* lcuk2 just installed it earlier01:10
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Woollyme too01:10
MaceN810awesome01:10
MaceN810tnx01:10
Woolly:)01:11
MaceN810lcuk and woolly.. trying to native build and pkg in maemo too or something?01:12
lcuk2MaceN810,01:12
MaceN810heh01:12
lcuk2apt-cache search [key]01:12
lcuk2MaceN810, i have been native for ages01:12
lcuk2well before the last summit01:12
WoollyMaceN810: Nah, I'm reading from the framebuffer01:12
lcuk2i just reinstalled it cos i reflashed01:12
MaceN810really?01:13
MaceN810you are building and pkging on the tablet01:13
lcuk2no01:13
MaceN810er... were?01:13
MaceN810oh01:13
lcuk2i build on tablet01:13
lcuk2and test and run01:13
lcuk2and work on it01:13
lcuk2and save it to git01:13
MaceN810i see01:13
lcuk2and load scratchbox to make packages01:13
lcuk2which is why ive only ever made 2 packages lol01:14
MaceN810haha01:14
MaceN810well. im trying to make the pkgs01:14
lcuk2yeah01:14
MaceN810on the n81001:14
lcuk2i tried that too01:14
lcuk2good luck01:14
lcuk2its possible01:14
MaceN810hahaha01:14
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lcuk2but reproducability is what matters01:14
MaceN810gee thanks01:14
Woollycan I compile something including Python.h in SB? I've tried adding -I/usr/lib/python2.5 to my gcc line, but it doesn't seem to be working01:14
lcuk2i can now have my sdk up and running and me coding within 30 mins of choosing to reflash01:15
MaceN810you and sts are such downers01:15
lcuk2the only thing i cannot do is package01:15
MaceN810heh01:15
lcuk2i am happy with that compromise01:15
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MaceN810well. find out how to do it01:15
lcuk2it wont fit in a simple method01:15
lcuk2i can just apt-get install build-essential01:15
MaceN810pkging sounds like something that shouldnt be hard01:15
lcuk2vs what you are struggling with01:15
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lcuk2technically no01:16
lcuk2but mentally, yeah01:16
MaceN810i mean, compressing built bins?01:16
lcuk2choosing where to put them01:16
MaceN810and using dpkg on it01:16
lcuk2managing versions01:16
MaceN810ah01:16
lcuk2making sure you get the deps01:16
MaceN810didnt think about that01:16
MaceN810need to make my own repo01:16
MaceN810;)01:17
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lcuk2i managed to kill 3 installs tryign what you are doing01:17
lcuk2and even when it was done the packages still failed01:17
MaceN810lcuk heh01:17
MaceN810well. i backup to flash01:17
MaceN810at every step01:17
lcuk2when you make these new packaging tools01:17
lcuk2to make it reproducable01:18
lcuk2package them up01:18
MaceN810easiest way to snapshot01:18
lcuk2and push it to extras devel01:18
lcuk2macer-dpkgontablet01:18
lcuk2so others can use it01:18
MaceN810naw... i was going tgo call it merlin01:18
MaceN810just to piss off sts01:18
MaceN810;)01:18
lcuk2call it something sensible so hackers will find it01:18
MaceN810haha01:19
MaceN810i will, was joking01:19
MaceN810have to get it working first01:19
lcuk2cool01:19
MaceN810still working on deps01:19
MaceN810deps are a bitch01:19
MaceN810bbl01:19
Woollylardman|gone: ping01:20
MaceN810all this01:20
MaceN810just because i want an abiword with cups support01:21
MaceN810haha01:21
WoollyI swear every time i compile this thing, i get a different error appearing01:21
MaceN810lol01:21
MaceN810me too01:21
MaceN810checking jpeglib.h usability... no01:22
lbthey lcuk201:22
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lcuk2hi n bye david, im being drawn into code01:23
lbtnp01:23
lbthave fn01:23
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MaceN810configure: error: The pkg-config script could not be found or is too old.  Make sure it01:27
MaceN810weeeeeeeee!!!!01:27
MaceN810dear lord01:28
woglindegood nite01:28
MaceN810i am going to have to like01:28
MaceN810write stuff down01:28
MaceN810before i lose track of what im doing haha01:28
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javispedrowhy not a chroot? currently I run a lenny chroot on the tablet for when I feel that murderous need to build things on the tablet01:35
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javispedroworks pretty well, only problem is that binaries built there may or may not work on Maemo due to binary compatibilities, but that could be fixed by using the SDK rootstrap instead of lenny01:37
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MaceN810javispedro, becaus the goal is to avoid a chroot01:37
MaceN810avoid a chroot, not use scratchbox, have a complete development enviroment on the tablet itself with the ability to build and package from src off the repos01:38
MaceN810if there is a binary incompatibility then i suppose i will just build a replacement bin and figure out how to pkg it where it will replace the stock bin01:39
javispedrowell... I always dislike merging dev environment with deploying environment.01:39
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MaceN810javispedro, yeah i can see how that might not be cool. but it is somthing i would like to do01:40
alteregoWhy do you need to build anything on the device.01:40
javispedrogo ahead then :) you know "because I can" is a good reason for me01:40
MaceN810plus. you can always just partition the external sd and clone to test01:40
alteregoremote log ins are where it's at :)01:40
MaceN810javispedro, haha01:40
MaceN810well. not just because i can01:40
MaceN810but i want to use the tablet as a full fledged computer01:40
MaceN810if i can do it in debian i should be able to do it in maemo01:41
alteregoWhy?01:41
alteregoDon't you have a proper machine?01:41
MaceN810alterego, sure but you cant fit a proper machine in your pocket01:41
MaceN810plus it would just be nice to not have to rely on another machine01:41
alteregoHence, remote connections :P01:41
MaceN810alterego, heh. and for the person who doesnt´have a proper machine?01:42
MaceN810;)01:42
alteregoWell, obviously they don't need a computer :P01:42
MaceN810well.. doing it this way01:42
MaceN810then they wont ;)01:42
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alteregoreally ...01:43
javispedroa chroot will serve you... it's not any slower fwiw01:43
javispedroit just uses double the space01:43
MaceN810javispedro, yeah. you have to copy libs and create a whole seperate enviroment01:43
MaceN810when i use linux on x8601:44
MaceN810that isnt necessary01:44
MaceN810i just build and pkg01:44
MaceN810why cant the tablet be the same way?01:44
MaceN810the only answer i can think of is... because someone just hasnt´done it yet heh01:44
MaceN810or like most people here .. dont´see the need01:44
alteregoIt's not so much need, it's "don't see the use".01:45
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MaceN810alterego, to treat the table like an all out computer while still being able to use maemo and have all the hardware working01:45
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johnsqalterego: have you worked with crosscompiler and configure?01:46
MaceN810the use is simply use the tablet..like i would a debian install on an x8601:46
MaceN810where id ont´have to jump through hoops and install cross compilers.. i simply use it01:46
MaceN810if i want something built.. i just hop on it and just build it ..if i want to pkg it.. i shouldnt have to move everything somewhere else just to tar something up and run dpkg on it01:47
alteregojohnsq: I have.01:47
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johnsqalterego: then you should see, why to compile on the target machine.01:48
* javispedro has fallen in love with sb1, but seems nobody else has. better for him.01:48
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MaceN810but i need to stop trying for the moment01:48
MaceN810and blog what ive done so far so i dont´fall too far from the tree01:48
alteregoNot withstanding very simple programs, I can't see the need to develop anything serious on an embedded device.01:49
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alteregoLet alone build and package it.01:49
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MaceN810alterego, because you would rahter use a cross compiler and i woudl not .. just a difference of opinion01:49
alteregoJust seems a bit silly.01:49
javispedroalterego, I know one person who developed _very big_ programs in his Palm handheld. Using OnBoardC, which is AFAIK a C compiler written from scratch01:49
alteregoYes, because it's a lot quicker.01:50
MaceN810if my proper machine broke? then what?01:50
MaceN810;)01:50
alteregoGet a new machine :P01:50
MaceN810or if i lost the net connection?01:50
alteregoHave a cup of  tea and wait for it to come back :P01:50
MaceN810or if lioghtning hit my house and set it ablaze .. server and all?01:50
MaceN810heh01:50
alteregoThen you've not got a decent off site backup strategy :P01:50
MaceN810the tablet should be independent of requiring anything01:50
alteregoHah,01:51
alteregoWhy?01:51
javispedroor if a meteorite hit the moon and made it fall to earth, making a bad movie plot in the process?01:51
MaceN810javispedro, exactly01:51
alteregoThe point of the tablet is to be an always connected device.01:51
alteregoYou should be coming up with better ways of making that a reality, rather than coming up with ways of segmenting it from it's nature :P01:52
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MaceN810haha01:52
MaceN810well.. to each their own ;)01:52
MaceN810i want my tablet to be independent01:53
MaceN810and act like a computer.. not just a gadget01:53
* javispedro is trying to isolate which optimization is making super mario kart computer players suicidal.01:53
alteregoIt does act like a computer.01:53
MaceN810and a requirement is that all the hardware works01:53
alteregoThe hardware does work.01:53
MaceN810alterego, it acts like a psuedo computer01:53
alteregoIt's the software that's the problem :P01:53
MaceN810and the hardware works in maemo01:53
MaceN810heh01:53
MaceN810like i said01:54
MaceN810on my debian x86 box01:54
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MaceN810if i want to build and package something for x86 i just do it01:54
alteregoSo, your basic requirement is to have build-essential on the tablet?01:54
alteregoIs that what you want?01:54
MaceN810build-essential on a tablet and dpkg working in maemo without a chroot01:54
MaceN810i want my tablet to work like i am on an x86 using hildon as a wm01:55
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MaceN810where i dont´have to do anything special just to build and pkg stuff01:55
alteregoWell, you could make your own rootfs.01:55
MaceN810or require another computer to get this done01:55
alteregobut the device is really under powered for compilation tasks.01:56
MaceN810alterego, 400Mhz isnt that bad for the types of apps you would put on it01:56
lcuk2MaceN810, switch cpu to performance mode01:56
MaceN810what is the largest app for maemo ?01:56
johnsqalterego: lol, just some years ago pc arn't faster01:56
MaceN810lcuk2, hit the turbo button? ;)01:56
lcuk2with the compiler, the processes technically start and finish before things have time to be boosted etc01:57
javispedroMaceN810, a wild guess: the browser engine01:57
lcuk2it takes quite a bit longer in ondemand01:57
lcuk2theres a defined noticable difference in build speed01:57
alteregoOoo, try compiling glibc on the device.01:57
javispedroalterego, true01:57
MaceN810alterego, i compiled glibc on my pentium 20001:57
johnsqalterego: only some hours, gcc and mozilla are bigger problems.01:57
lcuk2echo performance >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor01:58
MaceN810iĺl just go to sleep01:58
MaceN810hhe01:58
lcuk2or01:58
lcuk2echo ondemand >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor01:58
lcuk2to reset01:58
javispedrohmm..... building glibc took way, way, way more time than building the browser-engine on my pc01:58
javispedro(though probably because sb built it 3 o 4 times in a row)01:58
MaceN810javispedro, kde4?01:58
MaceN810heh01:58
javispedroyou said "Maemo app" ;)01:58
alteregoIt's called bootstrapping,01:58
MaceN810wish there was a kde4mobile01:59
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alteregoglibc took longer than gcc I believe for me.01:59
alteregoThough they're usually done in combination to boostrap each other.01:59
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* lcuk2 shakes head at the sheer magnitude of some projects01:59
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alteregolcuk2: the price of progress ;)01:59
MaceN810oops01:59
lcuk2progress is slower02:00
javispedroprogress. suprises me when even the simples of binaries uses nearly 10 pages of runtime memory. I've come to understand it though...02:00
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alteregoNot really, hardware is faster, a lot faster ;)02:00
lcuk2so why doesnt it feel it02:00
lcuk2i used to build and run apps for fun on amiga02:00
alteregoNot enough wheel reinvention I'd imagine ^_^02:00
lcuk2indeed02:01
Woollynice face alterego02:02
alteregoOn the other hand, I find myself getting bored watching autoconf garbage than gcc/make messages :P02:02
alteregoI think MaceN810 should use gcc which is already available and write a smaller set of tools for building and packaging :)02:03
lcuk2you are like the guy out of the matrix02:03
johnsqalterego: that autoconfigure sucks is an other problem02:03
* lcuk2 almost went blind watching streaming output02:03
MaceN810altereg, i am02:03
MaceN810using gcc now02:03
alteregoCool02:03
MaceN810damn n810 with no tab!02:03
MaceN810wtf02:03
alteregoYou can use dl instead of *-dev packages :)02:03
alteregoPress 'chr'02:03
alteregoThe tab is there, you just need to know where to look ;)02:04
lcuk2you can just install the -dev packages02:04
lcuk2best to be booting from sd so you have space02:04
lcuk2but the entire sdk is there02:04
MaceN810no tab on the qwerty02:04
alteregoMaceN810: that's what 'chr' is for.02:04
MaceN810lcuk2, i am already02:04
lcuk2that was back at alterego02:05
javispedroMaceN810, better get used to the Chr key if you plan to buy the N900 ;)02:05
lcuk2but yeah cool02:05
lcuk2first time i did it i was using onboard mem02:05
MaceN810heh02:05
MaceN810ouch02:05
MaceN810well... i need to stop02:05
lcuk2its not that bad02:05
MaceN810i have installed like 10 pkgs02:05
MaceN810and need to write down which ones02:06
MaceN810before i do any more02:06
Woollyis swig the only way of getting c-code into python?02:06
alteregoWolly, no, not at all.02:06
johnsqWoolly: you can write the api by hand.02:06
alteregoYou can write the bindings from scratch.02:07
Woollyjohnsq: oh jings, I dont fancy that02:07
alteregoIt's not that hard, just a bit of boiler plate.02:07
alteregoIt's more flexible than swig, because you can make it more "python"-esque02:07
Woollyi suppose02:08
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* Luke-Jr thinks *nix needs a standard for symbol information and type representations02:11
johnsqLuke-Jr: you want more this_is_a_pointer?02:11
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Woollyhas anyone heard of an undefined symbol: __aeabi_fadd error?02:13
alteregoNice02:14
Woollyis it nice?02:14
johnsqWoolly: sounds like missing -lm02:14
Woollyjohnsq: forgive me, but I'm not sure what that means!02:15
johnsqWoolly: fadd is a math symbol -lm is the math library.02:15
Woollyjohnsq: ahhh, right02:15
Woollyjohnsq: so does that go in my pkg-config bit?02:16
johnsqWoolly: I don't know, can also be a compiler option problem. soft-float ...02:16
WoollyI see02:17
Luke-Jrjohnsq: wtf?02:17
johnsqLuke-Jr: I didn't understand your request for more standard.02:19
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Woollyman I'm getting myself in a pickle here02:28
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javispedroWoolly, are you mixing toolchains?02:29
javispedroor gcc versions?02:30
Woollyjavispedro: I dont think so02:30
Woollyjavispedro: I've used swig to create some bindings for python, used gcc to compile them into the object files, used ld to link them with the -lm argument.02:31
javispedrothe python version in diablo?02:31
Woollypython2.5 yea02:32
javispedroit's thumb02:32
Woollythumb?02:32
javispedroI mean, it's compiled to thumb02:32
javispedroyou may need to pass -mthumb to gcc02:32
Woollywhat does that do?02:33
javispedrogenerates thumb machine code02:33
javispedroinstead of 32 bit arm02:33
Woollyahh02:33
javispedro~thumb02:33
infobotConfigurable image directory thumbnail viewer. URL: http://www.datrix.co.za/thumb/02:33
WoollyI'll try that02:33
javispedro(that didn't work)02:33
Woollyhaha02:34
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Woollyokay, so I no longer have an fadd error, which is good! Now I have an __aeabi_dcmple error02:34
javispedrohow are you calling the linker?02:35
Woollyld -shared batoo.o batoo_wrap.o -lm -o _batoo.so02:35
javispedrotry using gcc instead of ld (same arguments)02:36
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pupnikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSkAFGGv5nY  Some video from the westergasfabriek location in amsterdam for the maemo 2009 summit02:38
Woollyjavispedro: I could kiss you! haha02:39
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javispedroWoolly, wait until Python loads it...02:40
javispedrooh, hi pupnik02:40
Woolly>>> batoo02:41
Woolly<module 'batoo' from 'batoo.pyo'>02:41
Woolly:D02:41
javispedroWoolly, I don't know if that proves anything...  try to invoke any function02:42
Woollydir(batoo) gives me analyse_row, which is what I'm looking for02:42
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javispedropupnik, how complete did you leave your drpocketsnes port? did it render frames?02:48
pupnikno02:49
javispedroah02:49
pupnikit loaded a game without complaining though02:49
javispedroa straight make did not work so I started borking it02:49
pupniki dropped the final drawing - afaict it was emulating02:49
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javispedroand though I breaked it02:50
pupnikyeah dude, borking.... is what i was doing02:50
pupnikyou got something happening? :?!?!02:50
javispedroyep, with sdl though02:50
javispedrohttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=310521&postcount=4502:51
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Macerhttp://tech.rancorous.net/2009/08/10/maemo-project-dev-and-pkg-sytem-in-maemo-1-introduction/02:51
Macerthere :) simple enough02:51
Macerhaha02:51
* Macer is going to be the lone wolf in this project 02:51
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javispedroI've isolated the mario kart AI problem in the DSP1 emulation code02:56
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Macerheh02:57
Macerdamn. johnx isn't around02:58
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alteregoI think it's bed time, g'night folks.03:01
Macergood  night03:02
javispedrognite03:02
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pupnikAWESOME javispedro03:06
* pupnik dances around wildly03:06
javispedrogood to know :)03:06
zerojayWhat's the problem anyways?03:06
javispedrodo you think using SDL may lower its max performance?03:06
javispedroI mean, vs XPutImage / XShm like you and the original snes9x did03:07
pupniki have no expectation of getting more than 25-30fps on n8x003:07
pupnikso performance will be just fiiiine03:08
zerojayWouldn't be surprised if optimization is what iis causing the ai issue.03:09
javispedroah, zerojay, you were asking about that03:09
javispedroyes it is03:09
zerojayYeah, dsp code comes from zsnes originally, i think.03:10
javispedroproblem is that the asm cpu passes unsigned chars with the upper 24 bits clobbered03:10
javispedrogcc with -O >= 1 does not clear the upper 24 bits in prologues03:10
zerojayAnd 25fps for snes is completely unplayable for anything but rpgs. ;)03:10
javispedroso chaos ensues in random points03:10
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javispedrozerojay, while I've not played it yet (no controls ;) ), it seems definitely playable03:11
pupnikdpad is unusable for anything but RPGs so it all fits nicely.03:11
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zerojayAgreed.03:11
pupnikthis is great news javispedro !  so excited.03:11
pupnikcoming to amsterdam javispedro ?03:12
javispedronope :P03:12
javispedroI'd like to, but it's too early for me to tell03:13
pupnikok03:13
javispedrohaha, did you try it with mario kart rom?03:14
javispedroseeing all the computer characters randomly trying to hit themselves is funny03:14
pupnik256x224 should give very high reported fps03:14
javispedromost of them going reverse03:14
pupnikcool03:15
javispedropupnik, while ingame, it's between 20-30 in mario kart03:15
javispedrosound on03:15
javispedrosound off is >3003:16
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javispedroi can build it without frameskip if you want03:16
pupnikeh i think fs=1 should be appropriate03:22
pupnikthere be dragonz in getting synched 50 or 60hz screen updates03:22
javispedro:P03:22
javispedrocurrently it has no timing code at all. just render frame, skip, loop, render frame, skip, loop...03:22
javispedro(that's why it has a fixed 30/60 in fps counter)03:23
pupnikyeah they had some cycle counter on the arm92003:23
Macerhttp://tech.rancorous.net/2009/08/10/maemo-project-dev-and-pkg-sytem-in-maemo-2-the-control-flash/03:25
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javispedroi'm surprised the audio works at all, cause it's rendered by a separate thread03:25
Macercan someone test the init flasher link and the pb console tools link?03:25
javispedroMacer, 392K initfs_flasher.tgz  & 7,7M console-tools.deb03:27
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zerojaySame03:27
Macerok03:28
Maceras long as the files work ;) i tend to screw that up03:28
* Macer is going to use Merlin just to see if Stskeeps has hair fall out.. which he should have anyways considering the plunge is coming soon03:28
Macerthey don't call it the plunge for nothing :)03:29
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javispedrodang it, seems the AI problem is going to be harder than I thought.03:34
javispedrowell, leaving for tomorrow.03:34
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wiretappedARE WE THERE YET ??03:48
wiretapped(any new info on the new device's eta?)03:48
* wiretapped is ready03:49
zerojayYes.03:49
zerojay"Soon"03:49
zerojay...Ish03:49
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pupnikthe new device is coming very soon i think03:54
pupniki mean, the SNES03:54
pupnik:)03:54
* pupnik revels in 'Chrono Trigger'03:54
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Proteouswould cronotrigger be easy to play one a no dpad device?03:58
zerojayI love CT, but i'd stab myself in the face before playing it on my n810.03:59
* javispedro goes to bed04:00
javispedrognite04:00
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zerojay30fps and no dpad?04:01
GeneralAntillesHey, zerojay.04:01
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zerojayGonna be hard to enter that L R and B code to enter that dome too.04:01
zerojayHey.04:02
zerojayI know, I know... Long time, no see.04:10
GeneralAntilles;)04:10
zerojayMy tablet battery resurrected itself somehow.04:10
GeneralAntillesI already gave you your greeting for this glorious return on Talk. :D04:10
timeless_mbpheh04:10
zerojayIt took a year to get my developer discount n810.. And a month later, it was dead.04:11
zerojayThe battery was fucked, wouldn't charge.04:11
zerojayDidn't have the cash for a new one.04:12
pupnikno problem mapping alphanumeric keys to dpad buttons04:12
pupniksad04:12
zerojaySix months later, the tablet was sitting on my desk and just booted up on its own. Lol04:12
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lcuk2thats some lag04:13
zerojayPupnik, can you press three keys at once?04:13
zerojayAnd have the keyboard read all three at once?04:13
pupnikif there are shoulder buttons in the right place, or adacent keys04:13
GeneralAntilleszerojay, somebody at Nokia has it out for you. ;)04:13
zerojayLol04:13
pupnikyes kbd can read04:13
zerojayI felt guilty for harassing poor quim for months on end.04:14
pupnikabout what04:14
zerojayMeaning one email a month.04:14
GeneralAntilles"This guy and his goddamn bugs. This'll shut him up. . . ."04:14
zerojayHahaha04:14
pupnik:)04:14
pupnikit did04:14
GeneralAntilles"Who has more than 4 contacts?!"04:14
zerojaySo much changed... And for the better in most ways.04:15
GeneralAntillesI just want a goddamn device.04:15
GeneralAntillesI've wanted an OMAP3 every since the N810 was announced.04:16
zerojayI'm... drooling for it.04:16
pupnikwill next tablet have a regular phone?04:18
pupnikor hsdpa data04:18
zerojayI think i won't buy another computer after the rx44.04:18
zerojayEver.04:18
GeneralAntillespupnik, phone.04:19
GeneralAntilleszerojay, I still need something to push big, heavy bits around.04:19
GeneralAntilles(3D, photos, movies, Photoshop, etc.)04:19
zerojayAll i ever use my home pc for anymore is media sharing.04:19
GeneralAntillesBut, yeah, I'm seeing a lot of my usage shift that way.04:20
GeneralAntilless/seeing/picturing/04:20
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: But, yeah, I'm picturing a lot of my usage shift that way.04:20
zerojayHeh, forgot about the bot. ;)04:20
GeneralAntilles_Monkey is dead, though. :(04:21
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zerojayHah... That was milhouse's, wasn't it?04:22
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GeneralAntillesYeah04:23
pupnikit just kept interjecting without being activated by metacharacter04:23
GeneralAntillesLong dead because he couldn't be bothered to set up a trigger.04:23
zerojayWhat a pain that bot was.04:23
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pupnikhad a pretty nice dataset of responses for a while04:24
GeneralAntillesand he was #maemo through and through04:24
GeneralAntillesAs opposed to that whore, infobot.04:24
GeneralAntilles~$2004:24
GeneralAntillesWhat, too good for me now, infobot?04:25
pupnik~infobot04:27
pupnik~list04:28
infobotone warez list being sent04:28
pupnikhahahaha04:28
zerojayHah04:28
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FireFox16~seen xnt1405:56
infobotxnt14 <n=xnt14@pool-96-232-136-95.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 6h 28m 32s ago, saying: 'oh :P :)'.05:56
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b-man16damn :P05:56
* b-man16 is getting a Pandora as a replacement for his N800 :)05:58
b-man16http://openpandora.org/05:58
zerojayHah05:59
zerojayWhenever it actually is released.05:59
zerojayIt's been way too long already.06:00
b-man16it is avalable - but it requires you to do a special order06:01
zerojayYeah, it's not available.06:01
zerojayIt's too bad, really. Was looking forward to it.06:02
b-man16well, theay did say that theay are making a new batch for December, and there are still some left from last fall06:03
* b-man16 will email them06:04
zerojayMust be developer boards only then.06:04
b-man16yup - but it's still a pretty nice device :)06:05
zerojayYeah.06:05
b-man16perfect for what i do XD06:05
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zerojayIf the rx51 didn't have similar abilities, i'd get one.06:06
b-man16:)06:06
b-man16it's a nice allternitive if you dont want to spend $400.00+ on rx-51 ;)06:07
zerojayIf you don't care about the phone or maemo parts, maybe.06:08
zerojayIt's what, $300?06:08
b-man16yup06:09
b-man16$330.0006:09
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gogolhi maemo06:12
gogolanyone not just idling?06:12
zerojayMeeeee06:12
gogolhey zerojay06:12
zerojayHey06:12
gogol:)06:12
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gogolwhatchoo up to this evenin06:12
gogolor morning depending on where the heck in the worl dyou are06:13
zerojayWiki editing... Some ps3 soon.06:13
gogolnice06:13
gogolgot my old 770 out and reinstalled latest OS...2006?! crazy06:13
zerojayLol06:13
gogol...and i think THANK GOD i have an n81006:14
gogolno qwerty hurts BAD06:14
gogol:D06:14
gogolwhat pages on wiki you at?06:14
zerojayMaemo 5 dev guide.06:15
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gogolinstalling vagalume and plugging the 770 into the stereo made it useful enough06:19
gogolman im fuckn bored.06:19
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gogolwell, Google Voice changed and broke Dialcentral / GV Notifier.06:30
gogolimagine that.06:30
zerojayI can't use it anyways.06:32
gogoly not?06:34
gogolshort 1 GV invite perhaps. Or youre canadian.06:35
zerojayCanadian.06:36
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gogolIm wrong anyways, epage updated this afternoon.  Maybe I can figure out how to stuff his new scraping into GV-Notifier06:36
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gogolwell im certain google will eventually take over the entire universe. canada's probably next.06:37
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zakkmdid anyone see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fglg-MptslA&feature=related ?06:54
zakkmTilt sensor on n810?06:54
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gogoltiltstick?07:08
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zakkmgogol:07:13
zakkmyeah07:13
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zerojayDont see a use for it.07:20
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MaceN810hello07:55
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MaceN810well. guess iĺl go ahead and kee working on this maemo stuff07:55
MaceN810heh07:55
gogolgood idea07:56
* MaceN810 has built and installed blackdown and is building openoffice now07:56
* MaceN810 hooks up his charger07:56
* gogol goes and fucks up python repeatedly until gv-notifier doesnt work at all07:57
gogol><07:57
MaceN810managed to pkg up new stuff too but have to work on how they actually install07:58
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zakkmMaceN810: how goes abiword with cups?08:03
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MaceN810zakkm, i have decided to turn my attention elsewhere08:11
MaceN810just because of that08:11
MaceN810http://tech.rancorous.net08:11
MaceN810should be the 2 latest ones08:11
zakkm? compile on nokia itself?08:12
MaceN810yeah08:12
MaceN810so far i have been building replacement bins for the stuff that won't run configure08:12
MaceN810but i have to log all the stuff i'm doing08:13
zakkmheh08:13
zakkmbuilt anything successfully?08:13
MaceN810because i've done so much so far that i can't remember it all haha08:13
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MaceN810right now i think i'm on installing pkg-config08:14
zakkmcompiled succesfuly so much stuff?08:14
MaceN810i'm using abiword as a base to how the pkgs are downloaded and built though because that is a pretty long configure it goes through for it with a lot of dependencies08:14
MaceN810so i want to start logging exactly what it needs. maybe even store the debs on my own repo08:14
MaceN810and turn maemo into a real computer heh08:15
MaceN810well.. turn the n810 into a real computer with maemo instead of a replacement OS08:15
MaceN810or a chroot08:15
zakkmdont like Mer?08:16
MaceN810i was in the middle of the 2nd article when i had to leave heh08:16
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MaceN810work emergency.. bastards... waah. we can't access our server.. .boohoo08:16
MaceN810lol08:16
MaceN810i couldn't get to it from work because some idiot turned off the wrong breaker08:17
MaceN810work/home08:17
MaceN810zakkm, oh i think mer is great for what it is trying to be08:17
MaceN810so far i've gotten smaller things to build08:17
MaceN810using abiword as a base because it has a lot of deps08:17
zakkmi was more referring to you supporting the project rather than focusing on maemo itself.08:17
MaceN810and seeing if i can build and pkg its deps08:17
MaceN810and use the tablet for making the actual pkgs too08:18
MaceN810zakkm, oh. i never really used mer much08:18
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zakkm fvwm is coming :P08:18
MaceN810it has a long way to go. and maemo works with all the hardware08:18
MaceN810i guess. but it doesn't look much better than hildon08:19
MaceN810i know it's immature but i like hildon more .. and i  would really just rather try to figure out how to replace the wm in maemo408:19
MaceN810than to try to use the mer base since .. the hardware works in maemo ;)08:19
zakkmcan run xfce, fvwm, gnome and such in mer08:20
zakkm?08:20
zakkmsimple xinitrc changing i think08:20
MaceN810bbl08:20
MaceN810waiting on something08:20
MaceN810blah08:20
MaceN810waiting sucks. i want to go home08:20
StskeepsMaceN810: wtf do you mean by "the hardware works" anyway? :P08:27
Stskeepswifi works, bluetooth works, GPS works (with hacks), sound works, battery monitoring works08:27
MaceN810oh im´sure.08:28
MaceN810heh08:28
MaceN810but why not just figure out a way to run that stuff in maemo?08:28
MaceN810where the hardware works08:28
MaceN810i remember being able to run kde 3.5 that pb built08:29
MaceN810worked great08:29
gogoli didn't know sound worked under mer.08:29
zakkmthat was a chroot...08:29
MaceN810kind of sucked for screen real estate..08:29
MaceN810but worked nonetheless08:29
zakkmpb's kde3.5 was a chroot08:29
zakkmit wasnt maemo08:29
StskeepsMaceN810: mer's goal isn't the UI, and we'd be beating a dead horse basing anything on top of Diablo.08:29
MaceN810he even built a shitload of kde apps and included it08:29
MaceN810so if that is possible then anything is heh08:30
zakkmmacen810: he didnt build anything.08:30
MaceN810either way. i dont like the idea of having to use another system just to build and pkg08:30
zakkmit was "debian" running inside maemo in a chroot image08:30
zakkmit wasnt actually maemo at all , just maemo starting the chroot08:30
MaceN810and i simply cant grasp why i cant just do it on the tablet in maemo08:30
MaceN810when all the tools to do so are just sitting there waiting :)08:31
Stskeepsbecause you don't know enough about this area, really08:31
MaceN810bbl08:31
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MaceN810zakkm, yah but i bet it is possible to run it without the chroot by just putting the proper tools into maemo itself08:35
MaceN810Stskeeps, dont´get so defensive :)08:36
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MaceN810adhoc doesnt work08:36
* MaceN810 hides08:36
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zakkmdiablo sucks.08:36
StskeepsMaceN810: adhoc works fine probably when not using networkmanager.08:36
zakkmit works yes cause its official08:36
zakkmbut to base things off it , nah08:36
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MaceN810zakkm, a little work might do it justice ;)08:37
zakkmdiablo is dead too.08:37
MaceN810ill see. you can say i told you so later08:37
Stskeepsand MaceN810 just volunteered for taking over the Diablo community SSU08:37
Stskeepswe'll see how he handles that :)08:37
johnxcan I say it too? :D08:37
zakkmcommunity SSU?08:38
zakkmis that what happening?08:38
Stskeepsjust takes someone to take up the torch and get it implemented08:38
zakkmahhh i want dragonplayer to work08:38
zakkmanyone know terminal command for it?08:38
zakkmoh nevermind its dragon08:38
zakkmmmap failed for "/var/tmp/kdecache-user/kpc/kde-icon-cache.index"08:39
Stskeepsls -l /var | grep tmp08:40
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zakkmdrwxrwxrwt 3 root root 0 2009-08-11 22:35 tmp08:41
Stskeepsk08:41
zakkmsame error trying from root :(08:41
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zakkmohh its kde related08:42
MaceN810Stskeeps, why?08:43
MaceN810fuck the community08:43
MaceN810haha08:43
MaceN810if i can get it working then i can show people how to do it with a wordpress blog08:43
zakkmmaemo is allcommunity.08:43
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MaceN810zakkm, i know. i was joking08:44
MaceN810but i guess i just dont understand it to tell you the truth. if you think of maemo as a hardware layer debian08:44
zakkmhow is it i cant install anything kde? isnt ubuntu repository in mer?08:44
MaceN810you should be able to add the proper tools to it and update stuff from the debian repos08:44
Stskeepsmaemo isn't a hardware layer and what's underneath is hardly debian08:44
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MaceN810to keep it up to date08:45
Stskeepszakkm: qt for maemo probably08:45
zakkmits like amarok-engine-xine .. doesnt exist08:45
zakkmor libgpod308:45
zakkmlike normal ubuntu repo stuff.08:45
MaceN810Stskeeps, i just look at android as an example when ithink of maemo08:45
zakkmqt4 was fine08:45
johnxMaceN810, not really. a distro only works if you're constantly making sure that all the applications work with the newest libraries08:45
MaceN810maybe even osx heh08:45
zakkmosx pwns :)08:45
StskeepsMaceN810: android is not a hardware layer either. what's underneath the UI is, sure, but rest is just apps and desktop like everything else08:46
MaceN810johnx, and why wouldnt this be possible oonce you have a good working base?08:46
MaceN810Stskeeps, the linux stuff is08:46
Stskeepsandroid's hardly a typical gnu userland :P08:46
MaceN810linux seems to only control running the java intepreter and hardware08:46
MaceN810other than that.. no typical user would even realize they were running a linux kernel or system on their phone08:46
MaceN810just like a lot of osx users have no idea what a mach kernel is08:47
zakkmi do! :)08:47
johnxMaceN810, because parts of maemo are closed source...08:47
zakkm(is running OSX right now)08:47
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MaceN810johnx, i know08:47
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MaceN810Stskeeps explained that08:47
Stskeepsanyway, i'm wasting too much time discussing this crap instead of actually doing something. good luck with molesting your maemo installation and don't come crying when it blows up in your face :)08:47
* Stskeeps goes to work08:48
MaceN810Stskeeps, wow that was mean :-P08:48
MaceN810haha08:48
* MaceN810 says the same about Stskeeps upcoming marriage haha08:48
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MaceN810:P)08:49
zakkmStskeeps is getting married?08:49
johnxMaceN810, at one point a lot of people were saying exactly what you were saying: "why not just port projectfoo to maemo?"08:49
MaceN810johnx, but yeah. i understand about the closed src08:49
MaceN810Stskeeps said it was around 20%08:49
zakkmjohnx: nice name :P projectfoo08:49
MaceN810so why not just use maemo with the closed src stuff to control the hardware ?08:49
MaceN810i mean there are plenty of people who used closed ati drivers08:50
MaceN810in debian .. and ubuntu08:50
johnxMaceN810, because the ati drivers are specifically designed to fit into an open debian distro08:50
zakkmati wasnt totally closed too08:51
zakkmand its just a driver, and it worked08:51
MaceN810reinventing the wheel just doesnt´seem practical when all the tools are in maemo.. but yeah. let me work on it more so i can agree with Stskeeps  later about how bad of an idea it was haha08:51
zakkmits not a whole OS or anything08:51
zakkmalso maemo is slow :P08:51
zakkmits too much work :P08:51
zakkmwhat if you want to change Xorg? or update it?08:51
zakkmyou couldnt08:51
johnxbasically what it comes down to is library version mismatches and fighting against scratchbox08:51
zakkmor kernel08:51
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johnxMaceN810, at a concept level what you're saying makes some amount of sense08:53
johnxbut when you actually dig into it you start to see how much work there is to do08:53
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johnxMaceN810, also a note: if you ever see me working on a project and it seems like I'm ignoring a simpler/easier alternative, realize that's probably not the case :P08:53
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MaceN810<johnx> basically what it comes down to is library version mismatches and fighting against scratchbox09:29
MaceN810<zakkm> or kernel09:29
johnxwhy yes, I do recall writing that :)09:30
MaceN810the lib mismatches i see09:30
MaceN810but the kernel...09:30
MaceN810the kernel and modules for the n810 shouldnt need much more09:30
zakkmlol im just saying, if you base it off maemo, it will give you a screwup point09:30
MaceN810sorry09:31
MaceN810was busy heh09:31
zakkmits 2;31am here, im tired.09:31
johnxgotta keep the maemo kernel unless you're a serious kernel hacker though09:31
MaceN810johnx i know, but why change it?09:31
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zakkmim just saying if you base off maemo it may work now just fine... but overtime your run into more and more problems09:31
zakkmthat in the end its just easier to do like mer09:31
MaceN810if you just need it for a hardware layer?09:32
MaceN810and a few other layers too09:32
zakkmspeed, support?09:32
zakkmdrivers?09:32
zakkmxomap and such relies on kernel modules doesnt it?09:32
zakkmomg johnx: this is uber slow but works perfectly09:32
MaceN810zakkm, fight with the 20% that is closed?09:32
johnxahaha09:33
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johnxI wonder what slows it down so much09:33
MaceN810mario kart?09:33
zakkmall the services probaly go into virtual memory.09:33
zakkmcause it has to start kde4 too mostly09:33
MaceN810heh09:33
zakkmalong with the already hildon-desktop and all09:33
zakkmpushing in virtual memory, my idea anyways09:33
MaceN810well. have to work on this stuff some more.09:34
MaceN810macer vs the world09:34
MaceN810haha09:34
zakkmjohnx: did you find out why it failed?09:35
zakkmlol now kmail wont open:P09:36
johnxthe reason to update the kernel is to have a newer kernel with better performance, newer drivers09:37
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zakkmjohnx: its way too slow to be usable lol,09:38
johnxbummer :/09:38
johnxthanks for testing09:38
zakkmwell i dont know09:38
zakkmim running in easy-mer too09:39
johnxaaah09:39
zakkmif that would affect it alot09:39
johnxwell that's a little different :)09:39
zakkmis it?09:39
zakkmram wise perhaps, but not so much harddrive speed + cpu ?09:39
johnxI'd bet RAM is the limiting factor here09:40
zakkmi need thumb keyboard :)09:40
zakkmyeah09:40
zakkmi gotta say it is nice though09:40
zakkmfits screen and all fine09:40
zakkmsetting up kmail :D09:40
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zakkmjohnx: looking at processes and kmail  and contact are 23mb / 22mb ram each :P09:41
Stskeepsonce we have maemo-launcher for qt it should help :P09:42
johnxand mer vs easy mer :)09:42
zakkmis that for preloading09:42
zakkmi need thumb keyboard :P you know that :)09:42
zakkmthumb keyboard comes to mer .. no more easymer09:42
MaceN810well09:43
MaceN810that was odd09:43
zakkm?09:43
MaceN810i hope tear is still going well09:44
MaceN810that is an awesome browser09:44
zakkmstill alive isnt i?09:45
zakkmat 0.3.509:45
MaceN810im sure09:45
zakkmeven in mer as default i believe09:45
zakkmjohnx: anything else you think would be cool to try?09:46
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MaceN810damn09:51
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MaceN810forgot to put the qole repo on the flash09:52
zakkmlol09:52
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zakkmMaceN810: qole has newest tear :P09:53
MaceN810iyah09:53
MaceN810i reflashed the n810 a while back to start from scratch09:54
MaceN810didnt realize there was a tear bookmarks pkg09:55
MaceN810is there a pw one?09:55
zakkmpw one?09:56
zakkmjust tear and tear bookmarks09:56
zakkmtear bookmarks has the thing for top left of maemo .. to replace microb's one09:56
zakkmso you can use top left.. and it will launch tear.. as opposed to having to goto apps - internet - tear09:56
zakkmheh i love xcompmgr in mer :D09:57
Stskeepswell, it seems like i'll be presenting on the Friday on Maemo Summit :) (see http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule#Friday_9 )10:02
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zakkmnice10:03
zakkmgoing to bed guys, night night10:03
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MaceN810zakkm, tear doesnt store passwords tho does it?10:04
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MaceN810damn i love arm battery life10:05
MaceN810wonder if i can get an augmented battery10:05
MaceN810:)10:05
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MaceN810zakkm, where is the option to replace the microb icon?10:08
johnxsettings -> control panel -> panels10:10
MaceN810oh10:13
MaceN810it is just a panel10:14
MaceN810neet10:14
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MaceN810yeah10:16
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MaceN810but it doesnt seem to integrate with tear10:16
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johnxhmm?10:16
MaceN810adding a bookmark in tear10:16
MaceN810doesnt seem to add it to the bookmark icin10:17
MaceN810icon10:17
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johnxworks here10:17
MaceN810oh10:17
MaceN810odd, it just worked10:17
MaceN810let me try again10:18
johnxit might not sync-up instantly10:18
johnxI think they're both pulling from the same database10:18
MaceN810yah10:18
MaceN810it just started working... odd... but awesome heh10:18
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MaceN810how do i add a bookmark folder?10:28
eichi_PDAhello, i have a big problem with my n 800. in the left area  of the screen, i have to press on the s letter to get an a and an the r to get an e10:28
timeless_mbpouch10:29
ukkieichi_PDA: tried to recalibrate the screen?10:30
MaceN810oh. guess no folder support yet10:30
MaceN810and it uses python heh10:30
Stskeepseichi_PDA: probably a dustcorn or something stuck on the edge of the screen10:31
eichi_PDAoh lol yea cleaning the displaay and recalibrate worked10:32
eichi_PDAtheree was a hair unter the transparency10:33
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MaceN810hm10:35
MaceN810says you can use folders10:35
MaceN810wtf10:35
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qwerty12_N810The panel has bookmark support; Tear, itself, does not10:36
qwerty12_N810s/bookmark/folder/10:36
infobotqwerty12_N810 meant: The panel has folder support; Tear, itself, does not10:36
woglindehi10:37
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: cute10:37
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JaffaMorning, all10:48
Stskeepsmorning jaffa10:49
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Stskeepsjaffa, will be doing a talk on mer (suggested by quim & peter) in the expert streams friday10:49
MaceN810blah10:49
Stskeepson maemo summit10:50
MaceN810heh. whatever. going to  work on cups abiword some more10:50
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Andy80hi all10:51
MaceN810hm10:52
MaceN810# fribidi --version10:53
MaceN810fribidi 0.10.910:53
MaceN810No package 'fribidi' found10:54
woglindemacer jupps10:55
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MaceN810weird10:55
JaffaStskeeps: cool10:55
WoollyMaceN810: you still hackin away?! do you not sleep? :P10:55
qwerty12_N810Sleepless nights is common when setting up on-device compiling...10:56
Woollyhaha10:56
Stskeepsand trauma the rest of your life10:56
LinuxCodeand premature death10:57
MaceN810haha10:57
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MaceN810sleep is a crutch10:57
MaceN810im on a job site10:57
MaceN810someone broke something10:58
MaceN810have to wait around10:58
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MaceN810i usually work at night anyways10:58
MaceN810less traffic and get to spend the day with my son10:58
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MaceN810http://lasziv.reprehensible.net/~ acer/Me_and_Littleman/11:00
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MaceN810that is like a  yr old pic now tho. he is a lot bigger heh11:01
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Woollylinks broke :(11:01
MaceN810~macer11:02
MaceN810not acer... frigging cut paste11:03
MaceN810is there like a kb shortcut for this?11:03
qwerty12_N810Ctrl+V? =)11:03
MaceN810Â¥11:04
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MaceN810http://lasziv.reprehensible.net/~ acer/Me_and_Littleman/11:04
MaceN810wtf11:04
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MaceN810http://lasziv.reprehensible.net/~macer/Me_and_Littleman/11:05
MaceN810there it is.. manual ftw11:06
pupnik_ahh macer not acert11:06
MaceN810xchat pasting seems broken11:06
Woollyhah cool11:06
MaceN810yah11:06
pupnik_hehe @ shhh! sw11:06
MaceN810bbl11:06
pupnik_good success with your job11:07
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tomaterrhas any1 gotten httrack working on their n810?11:38
tomaterrI can't seem to make it work11:38
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wazdhello everybody12:11
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RST38hhello wazd12:13
wazdt.m.o is under DDoS again? :)12:13
wazdRST38h: heya12:14
RST38hwazd: They angered the Symbian Gods! =)12:18
RST38hNordic Symbian Gods12:19
MaceN810haha12:22
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MaceN810Setting up libglib2.0-dev (2.12.12-1osso13) ...12:26
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MaceN810No package 'fribidi' found12:29
MaceN810i dont understand why it isnt finding the dep12:29
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xnt14morning everyone ;)12:50
slonopotamuscan anyone explain me how 'PulseAudio will help "clearing up" sound area from obstacles to open development'?12:50
xnt14last night, a powersurge killed my switch12:50
slonopotamusquote from Quim Gil, bug 158412:51
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: you never had to deal with osso-multimediad and other evil things13:00
Stskeepsand trust me, pulseaudio is a magnificent open replacement compared to that13:00
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wazd"You last visited: 03-29-2006 at 07:27 AM" - ah, youth13:07
Stskeepsyouporn.com?13:07
Stskeeps:P13:07
wazdStskeeps: nah, seriouszone.com :)13:08
wazdJoin Date: May 200313:08
slonopotamusStskeeps, why not just use gstreamer/phonon/alsa directly?13:08
wazdI was pretty big fan of this game :)13:08
alteregoI think I might ln fakeroot sudo13:08
alteregoBecause I'm just too used to that ^_^13:08
Stskeepsslonopotamus: gstreamer and alsa is not in same league13:09
Stskeepsslonopotamus: that bug report is interesting13:09
slonopotamusStskeeps, i know. ok, alsa13:09
wazddamn, I was talking with foreign communities since 2003 :)13:10
* Stskeeps was talking since '9713:10
Stskeeps:P13:10
slonopotamusall those pulseaudio/esd... i don't understand what value they add13:10
wazdStskeeps: I was talking since 88 :D13:10
Stskeepsslonopotamus: i enjoyed being able to switch my audio output stream to my media center13:11
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RST38hYoungsters, hehe13:15
* RST38h has been trolling since 9313:16
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RST38hSts: BTW, is there anything new known about RX-71, based on the latest SDK sources?13:17
StskeepsRST38h: not really13:18
mikkov_X-Fade: I'm trying to promote solarwolf, but it doesn't seem to do anything13:18
wazdhttp://forums.seriouszone.com/showpost.php?p=550810&postcount=1681 <- my post! :D13:18
X-Fademikkov_: You'd better wait until I can finally promote packages.13:19
X-Fademikkov_: It is calculating reverse dependencies for python etc, that tree is huge ;)13:19
RST38hoh, vegetation in quake!13:19
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RST38hBGR fanboys seem to like the Rover13:34
RST38h(aside from the usual "want capacitive!" bunch)13:34
Stskeepsi think the two touch may be useful13:35
aolheh lets hope RX-71 is touch only with capacitive :)13:35
* RST38h does not mind single touch resistive13:35
* RST38h does mind the lack of a proper painting app though13:36
StskeepsRST38h: fremante ui uses two-touch based on resistive13:36
Stskeepslike lcuk's demo13:36
RST38hIn how many places? And in what context?13:36
aoltwo-touch?? really ... nice13:36
RST38hI mean, the only thing that comes to mind is zooming, and I can really do zooming without two touch13:36
aolmultitouch is great for games and soft keyboards13:37
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aolzooming etc extra gestures are useless imho13:37
aolgimmick13:37
StskeepsRST38h: it says so in HIG somewhere13:38
timeless_mbpRST38h: why not write a proper painting app?13:38
timeless_mbpyou know that we wouldn't get it right if we tried13:38
timeless_mbpwe've talked about it13:38
timeless_mbpi suggested that someone should port gimp shop13:38
timeless_mbpalthough porting Tux Paint might be easier13:38
StskeepsRST38h: fremantle xournal might be useful at least13:38
RST38hSts: I am thinking more in terms of MyPaint, but written in C/C++, with proper UI13:39
Stskeeps*nod*13:39
RST38hSts: Yea, Xournal looks better and better13:39
Stskeepshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Image:H22-Modest-Accounts-view.png13:40
Stskeepsinteresting13:40
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RST38hSts: Useless until it is made to properly check mail in BOTH IMAP and POP3 accounts, on ANY connection13:41
StskeepsRST38h: nono, i don't care about Modest13:41
Stskeepslook at the bar13:41
RST38hah thaat ;)13:41
Stskeepsthe unit must definately have a battery!13:42
Stskeeps:P13:42
RST38hSts: Well, I see that they combined batter, volume, and presense in a single icon13:42
StskeepsRST38h: no, it's the status area, it's smaller icons13:42
RST38hsorry, not volume, wifi13:42
Stskeepsand not directly clickable afaik13:42
Stskeepseither way that interface looks nice13:43
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RST38hyou mean each of these tiny icons is created separately?13:43
Stskeepsyeah13:43
RST38hIt is not a single app?13:43
StskeepsAFAIK13:43
RST38hHmm...Probably makes sense under certain conditions but still sounds kludgey13:43
Stskeepsyou click it and status area appears which then can be used13:44
Stskeepsi think13:44
qwerty12_N810RST38h: seen how easily hildon-desktop crashes? :)13:44
wazdStskeeps: icons are not 18x18? :)13:44
Stskeepswazd: that one i'm wondering a bit about too13:44
Stskeepswazd: some of them are 18x18 though? :P13:44
RST38hqwerty: More than once13:44
wazdStskeeps: well, that's not new in maemo world :D13:45
RST38hSts: They may have fixed height to fill the whole bar but variable width13:45
javispedrotonight my tablet was dead in the morning again. had been a few months since it last happened.... :(13:45
wazdalso, gradients are fine13:45
RST38hBTW, the tiny icons thing is present in Symbian/S60 AFAIK13:45
RST38hSts: Another weird thing: why is the status area on the left?13:46
wazdconnectivity icon is awful, I guess it's temporary :)13:46
StskeepsRST38h: no clue13:46
javispedroit sucks. i am home due to that. I'll end up buying a second battery just for that..13:46
Stskeepshmm13:46
Stskeepsanyone had that 'Harmattan' screenshot?13:46
RST38hSts: I mean, in terms of UI it does not make much difference, left or right. But if it is on the left, the app title loses fixed placement and starts shifting to the right13:46
qwerty12_N810They're being sympathetic to the lefties with this release ;)13:46
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RST38hSts: the huge fake one?13:46
Stskeepsyeah13:46
wazdRST38h: well, it goes like this "let's make something different! Statusbar on the left, awesome!"13:47
* RST38h is a lefty, and for the record, he does not care where status area is =)13:47
StskeepsRST38h: right, yeah, it does look fake13:47
RST38hSts: But eyecandyish =)13:47
Stskeepssome parts are correct though13:47
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lcukStskeeps, i keep playing with fakeymultitouch to allow grid resizing and selection of views within the list13:55
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lcukbut i still cant get it "right" i know what i want it to do lol13:56
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VDVsxAnyone with a maemo5 sbox that can help me test/confirm a issue ? :)13:58
Stskeepswazd: i'll need some help with graphics up to summit, to make a convincing Mer presentation for the first day :P13:58
javispedroVDVsx, if it's short, shoot13:59
wazdStskeeps: oh, sure :)14:00
VDVsxjavispedro, yes, is related to one of the gsoc projects, thanks :)14:00
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Stskeepswazd: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule#Friday_9 kinda explains why i need it :)14:00
VDVsxjavispedro, check you this project: https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=97214:01
VDVsxyou will need python2.5 in the sbox14:01
VDVsxpython2.5-sdk will install everthing14:01
javispedroarmel or x86?14:01
VDVsxx8614:01
VDVsxyou need to start hildon-desktop14:01
StskeepsVDVsx: i might have to do minor changes to the description of my talk saturday as i'll pull in material from it, for the one the day before14:02
VDVsxStskeeps, feel free to edit the info in the wiki :)14:03
Stskeepsk14:03
javispedroE: Couldn't find package python2.5-sdk -- it's on extras-devel?14:03
VDVsxjavispedro, sorry -> python-sdk14:04
VDVsxpython2.5-sdk in diablo :P14:04
javispedrocan't find it either14:05
VDVsxjavispedro, probably you don't have extras-devel enabled ?14:05
VDVsxmine shows: python-sdk - Developer-oriented versions of python runtime environment packages.14:06
javispedroah, sorry, was looking at the repo pool but it lists source package names instead14:06
alteregoI think this time I'm going to create an archive of my scratchbox targets so I don't have to keep regenerating them everytime I want to test my packaging. Downloading maemo-sdk-dev takes fucking ages for me.14:06
javispedroVDVsx, ok, trunk checked out and python-sdk installled14:09
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VDVsxjavispedro, go to src and the execute barcamera.py14:09
VDVsxrun-standalone python2.5 barcamera.py14:10
VDVsxinit hildon-desktop first :)14:10
javispedrono pygst14:10
VDVsxbahh14:10
javispedropython-gst0.10 , I guess14:11
VDVsxyes14:11
javispedrono gpsbt..................... damn14:11
Stskeepsfremantle has no gpsbt, it uses something else14:11
VDVsxlol, please comment this line: import locationfinder14:11
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alteregoliblocation14:11
VDVsxin barcamera.py14:11
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javispedrozbar...14:12
VDVsxjavispedro, humm, 1 min please14:13
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lardmanpupnik_: sorry for missing your question the other day14:13
lardmanpupnik_: and no but thanks as my wife will be coming and we were going to stay in a hotel14:14
lardmanpupnik_: thanks though :)14:14
pupnik_ohhh14:14
lardmanmorning everyone too :)14:14
ukkimorning14:15
* lcuk waves14:15
* javispedro idly plays around the fremantle interface14:15
VDVsxjavispedro, please comment line 15, 209, 214, sorry forget about zbar and it takes some time to install :)14:15
VDVsxmorning lardman :)14:16
lardmanhi VDVsx14:16
javispedroVDVsx, seen line 210?14:16
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lardmanhacking on barcodes?14:16
lcukwhatever you do, don't touch line 21014:16
javispedroi'm commenting that line too14:16
VDVsxlardman, some problems with Amit work14:17
javispedrounless python magically allows calling methods on null objects14:17
VDVsxjavispedro, eheh14:17
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lardmanVDVsx: is the project finished now?14:17
javispedrook, it boots, and I see what seems to be analog noise14:17
VDVsxlardman, have UI issues here, and he claims that it works fine for him14:18
VDVsxlardman, no14:18
lardmanah ok14:18
lcukVDVsx, what hardware is he testing on14:18
lardmanI might have some time this evening, can have a look see14:18
lcukand is it being run in emulated14:18
lardmanis trunk uptodate?14:18
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lcukor native14:18
VDVsxlcuk, sbox14:18
qwerty12_N810lardman: line 210!! How can it be finished :P14:18
lardmanah that post to maemo-devel...14:18
VDVsxlardman, yes14:18
lcukwhat ui issues are you having14:18
lardmanqwerty12_N810: the efficiency of python ;)14:18
VDVsxhildon issues14:19
VDVsxjavispedro, any luck ?14:19
lcukVDVsx, install things, or interactions in hildon itself14:19
javispedroyes, i'm on the main dialog14:19
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javispedrowhat you want?14:19
lcukie is it possible most dev/testing was done just natively14:19
VDVsxjavispedro, type "simpsons" and then accept, please14:19
lardmanmostly done in scratchbox targeting x8614:19
VDVsxlcuk, problems with hildon treviews :)14:20
javispedrodone14:20
lcukfurry muff14:20
lardmanI also hate treeviews14:20
VDVsxjavispedro, click in one of the item and them get reviews14:20
VDVsxjavispedro, send the the console output and you are done :)14:21
javispedrothere's a TypeError in there14:21
javispedrothank god the entire output was in gnome-terminal cache14:21
VDVsxjavispedro, beta 2 ?14:22
javispedroyep14:22
javispedromostly fresh as you can guess14:22
wazdVDVsx: I'm gonna finish main menu iconsnow :)14:22
VDVsxok, same here, and the same issue :)14:22
VDVsxwazd, cool :)14:22
javispedroVDVsx, http://pastebin.com/m7c04237914:23
VDVsxwazd, already made a Fremantle package with the mixed UI :P, waiting for feedback14:23
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VDVsxjavispedro, many thanks :)14:23
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javispedronever mind. looks like an interesting application.14:24
wazdVDVsx: yeah, saw that post14:24
javispedrohum... the album covers seem to be affected by the blue/red channels swapped bug14:24
javispedrothat does not happen on the device, fwiw14:25
Stskeepshow do you know? ;)14:25
lcukcos quim said as much in tmo i believe14:25
javispedrothis prototype kickstand is much squiggy, i tell you ;)14:26
lcukor someone did when the color swapping was mentioned14:26
lcukjavispedro, are you nokia employee then?14:26
lcukor are you the guy selling a prototype from the fareast? lol14:26
lcuk(or the buyer o_O14:26
VDVsxjavispedro, if that bug happen in the device, will be one of the major FAILS in history, lol14:27
Stskeepsor someone assuming the bug will be there14:27
qwerty12_N810I thought that was the 770 with its WSOD ;)14:27
javispedroi'm the buyer. want my icbm address? :)14:27
VDVsxStskeeps, true,lolol14:27
lcukVDVsx, what would be worse is if people start working round the issue in their sdk and nokia have to put a cludge fix in hardware to follow the software mods ;)14:28
javispedrohere it was confirmed https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=487014:28
VDVsxlcuk, oh my14:29
javispedrothe subject is now wrong since it does not happen only in sdl ...14:29
VDVsxhappens everyhere in my sbox, just passing the mouse under the icons14:30
javispedroVDVsx, kill the compositor14:31
javispedrothe bug must be in cairo or clutter14:31
javispedro(or xephyr)14:31
MekI;m only having the color swapping bug in sratchbox, not in the device14:31
VDVsxjavispedro, my bet too (compositor)14:32
Woollylardman: ping14:32
javispedrowell, gotta go. gbye14:32
lardmanWoolly: pong14:32
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lcukis it going to be easier to ask people to put hands up who HASNT got a device?14:32
Woollylardman: did you receive my FYI the other day?14:32
lardmanWoolly: no I don't think so14:32
* lcuk wants hardware14:32
Woollylardman: did you try that zbar sample code?14:33
lardmanno, been pretty busy14:33
Woollylardman: the API has changed slightly with the move from zebra to zbar14:33
lardmanyes, different import14:33
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Woollylardman: I tried it a few times, on a JPEG that I took with the camera, but I was repeatedly unsucessful14:34
Woollylardman: at decoding the right barcode, I mean14:35
lcukmek, hows your qt stuff comin along14:35
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lardmanWoolly: I'll try to have a look at it this evening14:35
lardmanWoolly: take a look at the code VDVsx is talking about, it decodes correctly using zbar afaik14:36
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Woollylardman: I've used swig to create some python bindings for batoo14:36
lardmanah ok14:36
WoollyVDVsx: can you hit me a link?14:36
lardmandoes that work better then?14:36
Woollylardman: it took me that long to compile the bindings that I didn't have time to test :D14:38
lcukwoolly, python bindings from a c library?14:38
Woollylcuk: yeah14:39
lcuk:) nice14:39
Woollylcuk: sorry not a library, just a file :D14:39
Woollystart simple :D14:39
WoollyI didn't have a scratchbox installation until last night, which was a pain14:40
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pupnik_the scratchbox vmware images are still broken14:42
pupnik_that is inexcusable14:42
pupnik_i call for flogging14:42
lcukwell since its open source, you are developer noticing bug, its your responsibility to fix it (and flog yourself lol)14:43
pupnik_exactly the right answer lcuk14:43
pupnik_:/14:43
lcukhahah14:44
pupnik_i'm just below the threshold of ... preparing my own food14:44
pupnik_ok what is mnost profitable use of time nao14:45
lcuki suggest 5 minutes of ball scratching followed by making dinner (after washing hands)14:45
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pupnik_good general advice14:46
lardmanhmm, lowering the tone a bit too much at this time of day14:46
lcukagreed14:46
pupnik_in my case i need to arrange therapy for back.  and i delayed that too long14:46
lcukpupnik, dont mention making your own food again14:46
pupnik_i've made great meals!14:46
lcukuh huh :D14:47
pupnik_turkish girlfriend who studied to be chef in thailand14:47
pupnik_lived there and in khabul14:47
pupnik_afghanistan14:47
pupnik_taught me some stuff14:47
lcukcool14:47
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RST38hwow14:48
lcuk\o vanishing, bbiab14:48
lardmanright, work to be done, see you all later14:49
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pupnik_cu lardman|afk14:49
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mandaraomg, n810 is 117£ at expansys. So tempting...15:01
VDVsxWoolly, https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=972 (the UI has some problems atm)15:02
Woollythanks VDVsx15:03
wazdI got a ing sound when someone mentions UI and problems in the same sentence :)15:04
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VDVsxWoolly, and for simple python bindings, you should take a look to cython15:04
VDVsxwazd, lol15:04
VDVsxthis is code from one of the GSoC projects, not mine :P15:05
WoollyVDVsx: will do15:05
VDVsxWoolly, is much more simple IMO :)15:05
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VDVsxhumm, don't think so: http://uk.techcrunch.com/2009/08/11/nokia-ditching-symbian-for-maemo-german-ft-reports/15:15
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X-FadeVDVsx: I'm sure that they have done some nice investigation into the issue. _not_ ;)15:17
VDVsxX-Fade, well, at least they refer the maemo summit :)15:18
StskeepsVDVsx: how many people did you budget with would attend the summit?15:18
X-FadeVDVsx: Hmm indeed.15:18
X-FadeStskeeps: 300-ish15:18
VDVsxyup15:19
VDVsxmax 350, afaik15:19
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StskeepsVDVsx: i personally wouldn't discount the rumours entirely15:19
X-FadeOtherwise we would have to switch to the location shows in wazd's banner ;)15:19
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: They're probably still mad over Bochum ;)15:19
VDVsxX-Fade, arena ?15:20
X-FadeThat location could host a few thousand ;)15:20
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VDVsxqwerty12_N810,  humm, Bochum, factory closed, isn't it ?15:21
qwerty12_N810yep15:21
X-FadeWell, whatever happens, I don't think 'ditching' will be it.15:22
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VDVsxremembered the history, politics told people to throw away their nokia devices :P15:23
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MaceN810i need to start from scratch15:34
MaceN810heh15:34
Stskeepsthat'll be a sweet beer.15:35
MaceN810heh15:36
MaceN810not because things are going bad15:36
MaceN810but because i underestimated how much space i need15:36
pupnik_doc|home: coming to amsterdam?15:36
pupnik_want to have a chat?15:36
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MaceN810my internal sd is going to run out of space15:37
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MaceN810the openoffice build itself will run out soon15:38
MaceN810blah... bbl. let me do this15:38
pupnik_i met one of the openoffice guys at linuxtag15:38
pupnik_are you having some success?15:38
MaceN810let alone when i try to build kde4 on the tablet in maemo15:38
pupnik_:/15:38
pupnik_128MB is so 199715:39
VDVsxhumm, more changes in Qt SW15:39
slonopotamusMaceN810, don't even try15:39
MaceN810doing it on the internal 2G15:39
slonopotamusMaceN810, not enough ram to compile cpp15:39
slonopotamusMaceN810, _ram_15:39
MaceN810slonopotamus, heh15:39
MaceN810even with the swap in maemo?15:40
MaceN810thats 25615:40
Mekas long as you don't compile qt-webkit it should be fin eI think...15:40
slonopotamusMaceN810, wd reboots when >~100mb swap used15:41
qwerty12_N810MaceN810: you do know that KDE4 packages already exist for Diablo, right?15:41
ShadowJKWhen swapping becomes so slow that the wd kicker doesn't run often enough :)15:41
MaceN810qwerty12_N810, was using it as the tester15:42
MaceN810for the building enviroment15:42
MaceN810heh15:42
slonopotamusbrb15:42
MaceN810the sdk repo is awesome15:42
qwerty12_N810It'll be enough to prove that you should install the SDK on a *computer* :P15:42
MaceN810they have put a LOT of dev libs etc15:43
MaceN810hahaha15:43
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MaceN810qwerty12_N810, i am15:43
MaceN810my n810 *is* a computer15:43
slonopotamus_MaceN810, either use crosscompiler or qemu for kde (luke built it in qemu)15:44
MaceN810i remember Stskeeps saying that at his mer thing on the video15:44
qwerty12_N810Just with lower RAM right? :)15:44
MaceN810and cpu speed ;)15:44
MaceN810the whole proof of concept is that someone can treat an n810 as a computer15:45
qwerty12_N810You seem to have a computer always-on (no, I'm not talking about the N810), so just install scratchbox on that and ssh in from the N810 and use something like sshfs to shift your files about15:46
MaceN810what if there was a nuclear war and you only have your nokia tablet and need to dev something to stop the war?15:46
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MaceN810hehe15:46
StskeepsMaceN810: you write a turing machine in busybox15:47
Stskeeps:P15:47
qwerty12_N810I wouldn't place faith in my tablet then :)15:47
MaceN810hahhaaha15:47
Stskeepsyeah, a gun would be immensely more useful15:47
Stskeeps:P15:47
MaceN810qwerty12_N810, i will get this going15:48
qwerty12_N810It could a plot for yet-another-cheesy-we're-all-gonna-die film15:48
qwerty12_N810+be15:48
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MaceN810hahahaaha15:48
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MaceN810wow15:48
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Stskeepsmurrayc: any luck with getting the example keyboard to show yet?15:51
Stskeeps(i follow the svn repo so)15:51
MaceN810qwerty12_N810, i have ocd when it comes to this15:51
MaceN810;)15:51
qwerty12_N810hehe15:51
MaceN810i cant stop til it works15:51
slonopotamus_btw. is there vkb working with qt?15:51
Stskeepsqt-maemo has HIM support afaik15:51
MaceN810bbl15:51
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pupnik_qwerty12_N810: how is nokia marketing connecting with the FOSS community to help us decide what are the things that are important?15:52
slonopotamus_Stskeeps, patching again? :(15:52
pupnik_or is nokia trying to create a 'surprise' effect from internal developments15:52
pupnik_sorry for the vague question15:52
qwerty12_N810pupnik_: that question would be better asked to someone more active with community stuff, sorry :)15:52
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pupnik_i just feel so far away from the typical consumer of a cell phone15:53
pupnik_never bought one myself15:53
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zerojayI only bought one for tethering.15:54
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zerojay$80 for an N95.15:54
pupnik_well the meta-description of a cell phone is "access to the information you want"15:54
zerojayWhy not?15:54
pupnik_$80?!?!15:54
Stskeepszerojay: good job on the proof reading btw15:54
timeless_mbpproofing what?15:54
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zerojayI work for a game company and we did cell phone games. When we switched to console stuff, we sold off the used phones so i grabbed the n95.15:55
pupnik_ah ok15:56
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zerojayTimeless: hig, maemo 5 dev manual.. Other stuff.15:56
zerojayThanks whomever said that.15:56
timeless_mbpwhich reminds me15:56
timeless_mbpi should look at the fremantle doc15:56
zerojayN810 doesn't show your name for some reason, lol15:56
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zerojayWorking on mafw now.15:57
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: zerojay's a probable partner in crime in your mission to have better language in maemo ;)15:57
zerojayYes, definitely.15:58
qwerty12_N810Timeless and zerojay Vs. Finglish15:58
pupnik_i am registrant #10015:58
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zerojayHah.15:58
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pupnik_i suggest nokia reverse payment to airsoft shop gmbh butzbach15:59
pupnik_now, publically, before the year is up15:59
pupnik_oh maybe it is up15:59
* RST38h wonders what Finglish looks like16:00
MacerRST38h: same as spanglish16:00
zerojayBetter than Frenglish.16:00
RST38hMacer: Really? The languages are so much different16:00
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pupnik_no comment doc|home ?16:01
Macerbutchered english is always the same16:01
Maceri saw an italian and a chinese guy with horrible accents16:01
RST38hNo, you can butcher it in different ways16:01
Macerspeaking chinglish... and italianglish16:02
Macerunderstood each other16:02
Macerit was weird16:02
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RST38hBesides, I do not mean the pronounciation, mine isn't very good either16:02
zerojayGotta love when indian guys who can barely speak the language telling me i don't know my own language.16:02
RST38hJust the grammar16:02
zerojayan are is needed in there somewhere.16:03
* RST38h remembers a German-written AmigaOS Bible book that had 700+ pages written in Germanglish16:03
RST38hYou could almost see them mentally capitalizing every noun =)16:03
Macershit16:03
Macergoing to have to take a ton of screen shots16:03
Macerblah16:03
* Macer gets teh charger16:04
zerojayMost of the problem with the stuff on twiki is just that it often sounds awkward.16:04
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RST38hMeanwhile: Nintendo Patents Inflatable Horse Controller16:05
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: I'm sorry for the other errors you saw, should now _really_ be fixed ;)16:09
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qwerty12_N810My fault, anyway, I didn't know Fremantle didn't have librsvg available :)16:11
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qwerty12_N810I guess I have a reason to install the SDK now...16:11
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: yeah, but those error running xxxx didn't help :)16:11
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Shall I try to see if the diablo version builds?16:13
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: librsvg_2.18.216:13
qwerty12_N810That'd save time. Thanks :)16:13
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Building now.16:14
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chxis Jason Carter here?16:21
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/librsvg_2.18.2-1terje2/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt16:21
zerojayThat's me.16:22
zerojayScary.16:22
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: *grumble*, thanks for uploading anyway16:22
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: I can try the lenny version..16:22
zerojayWhat's up and how much do I owe you? lol16:22
chxzerojay: hi.16:22
chxzerojay: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=463616:22
VDVsxzerojay, you got busted, you are the guy with the n900 proto :P16:23
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: if it wouldn't be any trouble, then, yes please16:23
chxzerojay: so how did you install this so that it works?16:23
zerojayLol, i fucking wish!16:23
qwerty12_N810hehe16:23
zerojayChx: install rtcomm.16:23
chxzerojay: hmmm16:25
zerojayI have a very basic set of apps installed. More vanilla  than most.16:25
chxyou mean http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ this?16:25
zerojayIt just works for me and i'm typing this from my n810.16:26
zerojayYeah.16:26
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chxand then?16:28
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zerojayAnd then reboot and use it.16:29
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Ok, more missing deps: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/librsvg_2.22.2-2lenny1/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt16:35
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qwerty12_N810Heh, fun. I'll get the SDK installed today and go through them :)16:37
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: I'll try the libgsf one and if that fails, I'll stop ;)16:37
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qwerty12_N810Fair enough ;)16:37
TheFatalcan any1 help me ??16:38
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TheFatali have a problem whit user passwd16:38
zerojay I don't know, can we?16:38
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TheFatal:S16:39
zerojayWhat's the issue?16:39
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Ok, stopping now: E: Couldn't find package libbonobo2-dev16:40
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: I'm guessing that is going to pull in the whole of gnome.16:40
qwerty12_N810:\16:40
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: So your best bet is using the 2.18 one from diabo. I think terje did some hacking there already.16:41
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TheFatalas root i type echo 'user  ALL=(ALL)  ALL'  >> /etc/sudoers16:43
TheFataland now all actions needs passwd16:44
Mekwont libosso-gsf-1-dev be enough perhaps?16:44
TheFatal:S16:44
Mek(instead of libgsf-1-dev)16:44
fiferboylbt: Ping?16:44
X-FadeMek: Sounds plausible.16:44
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Macerwell16:46
Macerjust added another couple pages to the "BLOG" heh16:47
chxzerojay: among the accounts , now I see an IRC setup, that's better! how do i connect...?16:47
Macerneed to start from scratch to log everythign i am doing because i really went off on a tagent trying to get it all working quickly haha16:47
Macerlost track of my progress16:47
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: The 2.18 version doesn't seem to use libgsf at all.16:48
GAN800chx, you'll need the Collabora repo from gronmayer too.16:48
zerojayChx create an account, type in a server.16:48
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: noted. Thanks for the help.16:48
chxzerojay: thats done16:48
chxzerojay: the screen i see says "add contact" "no contacts found"16:49
zerojayThen open contacts, choose open chatroom, select your irc account and the put #chatroom, hit enter.16:49
lcukmacer, link16:49
zerojayAdd account not contact16:49
talig1GTK question no. 10203052: Anyone here using Pidgin?16:49
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chxzerojay: the account is there. when i open the chat menu it's all greyed out.16:50
chxoh doh16:50
zerojayGot it?16:51
chxit says network error16:51
GAN800chx, also: XChat is better.16:52
zerojayXchat's terrible.16:52
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zerojayRather not use irc at all than use xchat, lol16:52
chxirc.freenode.net16:52
zerojayYep16:53
chxfrom phone and from wifi both 'network error'16:53
zerojayNo idea, works for me.16:53
zerojayBoth wifi and cell which i'm on now.16:54
chxrunning host irc.freenode.net from terminal returns a bazillion of IPs :/16:54
chxso the network connection is fine16:54
zerojayMaybe you have something installed or tweaked causing it.16:55
zerojayRtcomm installed after flash... It's all good.16:55
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GAN800zerojay, rtcomm is hell on a tablet compared to XChat.16:57
GAN800Doesn't even have nick coloring.16:57
zerojayI turn that shit off right away, lol16:57
GAN800I can't function without it.16:58
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zerojayI've been on irc for 11 years or so. Met my wife on it. Never ever used nick coloring. Just annoys me.16:59
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zerojayLike i cant be trusted to read and recognise a nick.16:59
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Macerlcuk: ?17:02
Myrtti I can do both - but colours just make the association a bit quicker17:02
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Macerhttp://tech.rancorous.net/2009/08/10/maemo-project-dev-and-pkg-sytem-in-maemo-2-the-control-flash/17:02
Macerworking on that section now17:02
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taligUnbelievably enough, I'm writing some sort of a chatroom for the N810... Does anyone know if to list the people in the room the widget I should use is  list/tree view?17:10
talig[in order for a person to be selectable, and therefore possible to send private messages]17:11
mgedminwhy not?17:11
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taligbrb17:12
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lcukMacer, link to your blog17:15
alteregoThat kind of depends on whether your contact list is heirarchical or not.17:15
Macer tech.rancorous.net17:16
Macerwell. http://tech.rancorous.net17:17
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lopzhola17:19
Macerhola tu17:19
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talig1Sorry if anyone answered while I was gone... ideas?17:24
chxso which daemon serves chat in case i want to try restrating it17:25
zerojayThere isn't, i don't think.17:25
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chxwell surely there is17:25
chxi mean, you need to reboot to see the online marker in the status bar17:25
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chxsee AIM connects17:27
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chxMSN fails17:28
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zerojayWorks for me.17:29
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chxis there a system level log?17:31
chxso i can see mor ethan "network error"?17:31
chx /var/log is empty17:31
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zerojayMaybe /var/log/messages17:34
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chxthe whol e/var/log dir is empty17:34
xnt14[work]musicbot: mizuki nana: Eternal Blaze17:34
chxgtalk works17:35
chxthis is weird...17:35
xnt14[work]musicbot: ayumi hamasaki: Thousand Arms17:35
xnt14[work]hmm17:35
xnt14[work]my win32 port of musicbot work :)17:35
GAN800zerojay, well, I can too, but coloring makes it a lot faster.17:36
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mgedminchx: dmesg17:36
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mgedminor you could install sysklogd17:36
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mgedmindon't keep it; constantly writing to flash memory is bad for its life expectancy17:36
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chxmgedmin: dmesg |tail only has EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled and EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled alternating. lots.17:39
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lbtfiferboy: pong17:43
fiferboylbt: Hey.  Are you still working on OBS?17:44
lbtnot 100% - still using it and what have you17:44
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lbtwhat were you wondering?17:45
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fiferboylbt: Have you looked at the finger scrolling changes at all?17:45
lbtnot recently... not compiled Qt since starting the OBS thing...17:47
lbthmm17:47
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lbtOK, I'll pull it into git locally and review17:48
fiferboyCool17:49
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lbtyep, for sure that needs pulling into Mer17:50
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coldbootfiferboy: I found a bug.18:19
fiferboycoldboot: A bug in what?18:19
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coldbootThe flashing fix.18:20
fiferboyHow big of a bug?18:21
coldbootSmall and rare.18:21
coldbootRemember when I tried your quick fix.18:21
fiferboyYes18:21
coldbootThe one where we didn't bother sending a Hildon Command if the widget wasn't HIM capable?18:21
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coldbootAnd in our application, when you did that, entering text in that place caused events to drop through the popup window, hitting the widget below.18:22
fiferboyYes, and you had a problem in your program that I couldn't find in any I had installed18:22
coldbootYeah.18:22
fiferboyOkay18:22
coldbootWell that seems to come up now, sometimes, if you get suggested words as you're typing in that same LineEdit.18:23
fiferboyYou have a line edit with a completer on it, and clicking on a suggestion in the completer drops through?18:24
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coldbootNot clicking on the suggestion, clicking on some other dropdown widget while a suggested word is present.18:26
coldbootIf you keep typing gibberish, and make the suggested word go away, then it's safe to click on something else.18:26
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fiferboycoldboot: Is your line edit in a QDialog?18:26
coldbootNot sure, let me check.18:27
coldbootAh, it's a bug with my code.18:27
coldbootOh wait, maybe not.18:27
fiferboyI have several lineEdits with completers, but none of them popup the list automatically so I can't test18:28
coldbootCan you turn off completers per Qt widget, or is a global HIM setting?18:31
coldbootOkay it's not necessarily something with suggested words.18:32
coldbootI'll test this for a while to find the exact cause.18:32
fiferboycompleters are controlled per widget18:33
coldbootHow do you turn it off?18:33
fiferboyYou could try: lineEdit->setCompleter(NULL)18:34
fiferboys/(NULL)/()/18:34
infobotfiferboy meant: You could try: lineEdit->setCompleter()18:34
fiferboyHmm, it looks like NULL was correct, at least for setCompleter(QCompleter *c), c has to be zero to clear it18:35
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coldbootfiferboy: I don't think it's a bug in the flicker fix anymore.18:58
coldbootfiferboy: It turns out our popup dialogues are widgets and make their own loops.18:59
coldbootThere's some problem with the loop exiting prematurely.18:59
coldbootHence the events going through it into the widgets below.19:00
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GAN800Stskeeps, karma whore 2,508, karma whore. :P19:08
alteregoYeah, my karma is like .. 419:08
StskeepsGAN800: 2508? :P19:09
GAN800Thanks19:09
alteregoI must have done something bad in a previous life, or this one.19:09
Stskeepsi have 2508 thanks? thought it was 100019:09
* alterego can think of a few bad things he's done in this life actually.19:09
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GAN800Stskeeps, no, I do. ;)19:11
* qwerty12_N810 is waiting for his Thanks! count to be recalculated again. maemo.org's forgotten that I have an Talk amount, and quite a bit of thanks to go with, and has lowered my karma count :(. Remember, kids: I'm the true karma whore.19:11
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coldbootfiferboy: Still there? I have more info.19:11
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: report it :) you deserve your karma for certain19:11
qwerty12_N810Just waiting another day; X-Fade said that talk karma is calculated every two days or so :)19:12
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: tmo's downtime at the weekend obviously coincided with a karma recount19:16
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zerojayI was shocked to see how much i had even though i haven't been around much. Was right around when thanks got implemented that i stopped, i think.19:17
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: s/talk karma/karma/19:17
qwerty12_N810:)19:17
lcukzerojay, it was your post offering instructions on picking up hot chix with your tablet that did the job19:17
zerojayYeah, i know :)19:18
JaffaX-Fade and I have also been working on 9.08-05 and linking tmo accounts where email addresses match; and highlighting ones which are invalid and identifying people who should create/link to get voting rights19:19
zerojaySomeone took a pic of me using the n810 on the bus and was flipping out thinking it was an n900 proto, lol19:19
javispedroheh :)19:19
Andy80LOL :D19:19
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lcukwait19:19
lcukyou actually had someone in the street recognise your nokia tablet?19:20
zerojayYes.19:20
zerojaySurprise, surprise.19:20
lcukmost  folks who see mine ask "is it a phone"19:20
lcukand dont get its a tablet19:20
zerojayUsually i got "is that an iphone?"19:20
Andy80aome of my friends ask "oh! is it the iPhone?" O_o19:20
zerojay"Fuck no!"19:21
Andy80:D19:21
Andy80me too!19:21
Andy80ahahah19:21
lcukiphone is for babies19:21
lcukthis is a grown up toy19:21
lcuklinux: serious business19:21
Andy80lot of people don't understand what a tablet is :)19:21
zerojayI'm just waiting to see a blog post pics of me with my n900 proto. Can't wait.19:22
javispedrothey'll do starting this year: "that apple thing".19:22
lcukthey do when i say moses wrote his commandments with one19:22
zerojayLol19:22
lcukthe true nokia prototype19:22
qwerty12_N810zerojay: you should change address or something - you'll get people breaking into your house thinking you've have the N900 proto :P19:22
zerojaynXX at the top of the stones19:22
qwerty12_N810-have19:23
lcukyou didnt see him using his finger19:23
lcukhe had a stylus errrr chisel19:23
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zerojayThese tablets aren't conductive?!19:23
javispedroheh, Maemo Mistral did sound prehistoric but I couldn't imagine how much19:23
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lcukzerojay, capacitive is nice, but its very low resolution19:25
javispedroand Moses said "thou shalt not turn your tablet on with USB connected"19:26
lcukhah19:26
lcuk:D make a proper list of thoe19:26
zerojayI was talking about the stone tablets ;)19:26
lcukand post on tmo19:26
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qwerty12_N810He must've been using a 770 ;)19:26
lcuklol zerojay  - i suppose they will conduct lightening19:27
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javispedroaha... finally, the kamikaze ai bug fixed19:28
javispedroserves me right for believing an updated gcc version whould fix what I should've workarounded in the first place19:28
woglindekamikaze ai?19:29
javispedrorandom breakage in mario kart in the snes emu port19:29
woglindeah19:30
javispedroalso, a note to those adventurous who try a newer toolchain for diablo: if you're using pthreads and g++, use static libgcc19:30
woglindejavis the if's?19:30
javispedrowoglinde, yep. the code seemed right at first glance with the updated gcc, but a closer look revealed it was not doing the right thing either19:31
javispedroso I just swapped around the ifs19:31
javispedroand now it works in all gcc versions19:31
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woglindehehe19:32
woglindewonders of optimazations19:32
fiferboycoldboot: I'm back19:33
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woglindejo fiferboy19:35
fiferboyHey woglinde19:35
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* GAN800 wonders if people who write "Freemantle" feel embarrassed.19:42
zerojayNope. :)19:42
qwerty12_N810Freemantle.19:42
qwerty12_N810Nope.19:42
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coldbootWhat stuff do you guys remove to make more space on your device?19:47
woglindeinstall on the sd card19:48
qwerty12_N810I remove the tutorial and I install localepurge. Also, I get rid of the video that comes with it19:48
woglindethere is enough space19:48
coldbootWhat do you mean you install "localpurge"?19:48
GAN800qwerty12_N810, I'll feel embarrassed for you, then.19:49
woglindeapt-cache show localepurge19:50
qwerty12_N810GAN800: That's generous of you. :)19:50
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GAN800Hey, I'm always happy to help. :P19:50
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qwerty12_N810:D19:50
coldbootwoglinde: What repo is it in? I don't have in my apt-cache.19:51
qwerty12_N810coldboot: I put out a deb on Talk somewhere. It'll zap all locales that aren't English everytime you install something19:51
coldbootah cool19:51
woglindecoldboot ask qwerty19:51
coldbootAutomatically?19:51
qwerty12_N810Yep19:51
woglindecoldboot you can configure it19:51
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woglindeon my debian I delete all stuff which is not german19:51
qwerty12_N810It needs cleaning up though, I could remove its dependency on color-ls easily19:52
woglindewhy its depend on color-ls?=19:52
woglindeand why didnt you put in extras?19:52
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qwerty12_N810Because it was a package done by dpkg-deb and its defaults is to nuke everything that is not en, en-US, or en-GB (real English) and I doubt it'd go down well with people not using English...19:53
coldbootqwerty12_N810: Is it not in the apt repo?19:53
qwerty12_N810Nope19:53
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woglindeqwerty12_N810 hm istn maemo using debconf?19:54
qwerty12_N810Nope19:54
woglindehm thats a pity19:54
woglindeand design error19:54
woglindehahaha19:54
qwerty12_N810We have "fakedebconf". Yay!19:54
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coldbootqwerty12_N810: Thanks, lots of free space now.19:58
zerojayHow much more?19:58
coldbootzerojay: About 40mb.19:58
zerojayNice.19:59
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woglindehm vmware buys springsource19:59
woglindeintressting19:59
JaffaVery odd19:59
JaffaHaven't checked the PR yet. Any reason given?19:59
woglindehm platform as service20:00
woglindeand cloud stuff20:00
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mlpugcloud makes people panic and they just buy something20:02
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woglindemlpug vmware is the cloud20:02
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coldbootfiferboy: I think it's because I'm setting the him proxy to null if they keyboard is being hidden.20:06
fiferboycoldboot: What is the alternative?20:07
coldbootfiferboy: I'm not sure.20:07
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coldbootfiferboy: I'm going to just never set it to null and see what happens.20:07
fiferboycoldboot: Ok.  Make sure to try hiding the OSK and typing with the hardware keyboard and see where the input goes20:08
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Khertan_n810Hi all !20:20
zerojayHey20:20
caoticI think this is more like a cellphone than a tablet http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/08/nokia-rx-51-tablet-captured-in-the-wild20:20
zerojayYes.20:20
Khertan_n810qwerty12 : i ve tryed to use hippo on my n81020:20
Khertan_n810qwerty12: but it s really too slow to be useable :(20:21
qwerty12_N810:(20:21
Khertan_n810caotic : nokia said that isn t a smartphone :)20:21
Khertan_n810qwerty12 : 10s to draw a month view, 10s to manage where a clic happen20:22
caoticKhertan_n810: but the Sym key ( top left) makes me wonder if it stands for Symbian, wich will totaly suck20:22
lcuk:( Khertan_n81020:22
lcukcaotic, more likely it would be for symbol20:23
Khertan_n810i ll come back to a gtk.drawarea custom view20:23
javispedrohttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/08/090811-ent-02.jpg20:23
javispedrougly, but a proper keyboard :)20:23
Khertan_n810caotic it s more sym like the chr key20:23
lcukjavispedro, whats dat20:24
javispedrohttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/11/android-turns-up-on-mids-from-eston-sfr/20:24
lcuklooks like a MACK phone20:24
caoticI guess, but wha happa, what about the tasks controlling keys, am not that into soft buttons20:24
lcukeh?20:25
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Khertan_n810caotic ... it could be a soft button or a shortcut20:25
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lcukit looks hard in the picture20:25
RST38hmoo, javis20:26
lcukdo you think its a holo projection?20:26
Khertan_n810javispedro : proper if you ar 12 years old ... key is too small20:26
RST38hjavis: this is a seriously ugly device20:26
lcukwe have Fn Shift Chr and Ctrl on n810 dont we20:26
Khertan_n810keys are too small20:26
Khertan_n810:)20:26
javispedrolooks like you're gonna end up with dirty hands if you just touch it20:26
lcukoil from the rig20:27
RST38hjavis: it will end up with your dirty prints rather20:27
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lcukbooo my tablet is dead20:27
lcukit was alive when i left20:27
lcukit20:27
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caoticit suppose to run on ompa3, wonder if the cpu will be jucier.20:27
Khertan_n810import gtknimport caironimport pangonimport pangocaironimport hildonnimport datetimenimport dateutilnnclass AgView(gtk.DrawingArea):nn  def __init__(self):n    gtk.DrawingArea.__init__(self)n    self.eventsList = []n    self.current_date = datetime.date(2009,3,1)n    self.start_hour = 9n    self.end_hour = 19n    self.mode = 2n    self.callback= Nonen    #0 -> Dayn    #1 -> Weekn    #2 -> Monthn    self.c20:27
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Khertan_n810oups sorry ... dirty copy/paste20:27
lcuk====SEPTEMBER==20:28
lcukArrive at summit20:28
coldbootfiferboy: The hardware keyboard is sending events directly to the widget...20:28
lcukGet drunk20:28
qwerty12_N810Smoke weed20:28
fiferboycoldboot: Ah, right20:28
qwerty12_N810Smoke weed20:28
RST38hwhen is the summit, again?20:28
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Khertan_n810lol20:28
lcuklol20:28
coldbootfiferboy: Which also sometimes happens with the stylus keyboard...20:28
lcukyou forgot black jack20:28
Khertan_n810still no news about sponsoring ?20:28
coldbootfiferboy: Always happens with hardware keyboard, sometimes with stylus keyboard, to be clear.20:28
RST38hqwerty: 1. Find out that N900 is not coming until Christmas 2. Smoke weed. 3. Goto 2.20:28
fiferboycoldboot: So, the problem always happens with the hardware keyborad or never?20:29
Khertan_n810RST38h : syntax error label N900 unknow20:29
coldbootfiferboy: I don't know what you mean. My last sentence should be unambiguous.20:29
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fiferboycoldboot: "Always happens" is the problem always happens, the the key stroke gets sent to the widget?20:30
coldbootfiferboy: As soon as I press a single hardware key with the LineEdit having focus, QApplication::x11ProcessEvent() executes where keywidget = LineEdit. And the keystroke gets sent to the widget.20:30
coldbootfiferboy: I also see a flash, so it's getting converted to a native X-Window.20:30
wazdRST38h: maybe devs can order one earlier20:30
RST38hwazd: Yea, right20:31
RST38hwazd: Last time, it was rather kafkian experience20:31
Khertan_n810wazd : it s not 1st april ?20:31
lcukcoldboot, fiferboy i was peeking in qt keyboard code, its very well formatted, but its still a bit of a rats nest in there aint it20:31
wazdKhertan_n810: I suppose not :)20:31
coldbootlcuk: Why would XEvents be getting sent directly to the widget from the hardware keyboard?20:32
lcukisnt that the normal expected flow of things20:32
coldbootlcuk: fiferboy: I think I'll retrofit the proxy code to be used all the time.20:32
lcukkey event occurs20:32
lcukwidget handles20:32
RST38hwazd: I guess, if the Nokia's official USA reseller could subject me to an anal probe over the phone, they would20:32
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Khertan_n810so about the summit someone know if there is news about sponsord travel ?20:32
wazdRST38h: :D20:32
RST38hwazd: Fortunately, they had to satisfy themselves by asking about pretty much all my relatives having US bank accounts20:33
lcukKhertan_n810, i think we will hear soon20:33
Khertan_n810ah ok20:33
lcukwe have to lol20:33
lcukthose that plan on going have to finalize work holiday bookings20:33
lcukno point in arranging time off if cant go etc20:33
wazdI think Fremantle Star devs would be given with new devices, then the ones who submitted to the dev program20:34
wazdSo I think we'll terrorizing lcuk very soon :D20:34
lcuki'd give my right hand to get a device20:34
qwerty12_N810They may be happy with just a finger ;)20:35
lcuk:O20:35
Khertan_n810wazd > i hope that they will not be the only one20:35
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javispedrolcuk, and both kidneys. that or a life contract with t-mobila20:35
lcuk:(20:35
lcukbut i already gave both kidneys20:35
Khertan_n810a question about fremantle how they have been choosen ?20:35
RST38hthat AND the life contract20:35
Khertan_n810s/fremantle/fremantle stars20:36
wazdKhertan_n810: well, htey were chosen long ago, don't exactly remember how20:36
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Khertan_n810as i don t see any usefull things except liqbase :)20:36
Khertan_n810s/any/anything20:36
coldbootfiferboy: lcuk: It also seems that "nativeParentWidget()" doesn't always return the actual nativeParentWidget...20:36
Khertan_n810ah and mauku20:36
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wazdKhertan_n810: have you seen the list?20:36
lcukKhertan_n810, you havent looked at ecoach?20:37
Khertan_n810wazd ... yep i ve seen the list20:37
lcukor osm2go20:37
Khertan_n810the one on the wiki20:37
lcukecoach is spectacular in both implementation and what it can expand to :)20:37
Khertan_n810maybe not up to date20:37
wazdKhertan_n810: well, you're the first person that calls OMWeather useless :D20:37
lcukand osm2go gives gps fiddlers something to play with20:38
wazdOther apps are pretty handy too20:38
lbtcoldboot: !20:38
Khertan_n810wazd ... yep maybe because meteo prevision is always wrong20:38
lcuki actually think omweather is useless20:38
RST38hehehe20:38
lcukhow many times do you look at your weather, look out of the window and say "WRONG!"20:38
javispedroeveryday20:38
coldbootlbt: What?20:38
lcuknot the fault of a technically amazing app20:38
lcukjavispedro, now, what if you could correct it..20:39
RST38hlcuk: You should turn off the internal NIT sensor temperatrue display20:39
Khertan_n810yep ...20:39
wazdlcuk: well, my forecasts are pretty accurate20:39
lcukwazd, read that20:39
lcuksame app20:39
javispedroit's fun how they say "this weekend it's gonna rain A LOT" on monday20:39
lcukbut allow you to put it right20:39
qwerty12_N810lcuk: what's there to be wrong about in the north? Monday: Raining, Tuesday: Raining, etc.20:39
lcuklike you do with a barometer thing20:39
lbtIt also seems that "nativeParentWidget()" doesn't always return the actual nativeParentWidget...20:39
javispedro"it's gonna rain a bit" on wednesday20:39
lcukyou fiddle and twiddle the dial20:39
RST38hwazd: In here, I do not need omweather to forecast stuff =)20:39
Khertan_n810except <the design20:39
javispedrothen "100% sunny" on friday20:39
javispedroevery week20:39
RST38hwazd: "Same as yesterday, a bit colder if clouds, a bit warmer otherwise"20:39
wazdRST38h: Well, I check crrent weather everytime I go out :)20:40
lcukthen link it with an online service and show what your friends around you think the weather is doing20:40
wazdRST38h: just to be safe :)20:40
javispedrohm... weather in the cloud service...20:40
RST38hwazd: You mean, you never tried looking out of the window? =)20:40
lcukhttp://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273083&cid=2837211720:40
lcukwe are data producers20:41
wazdRST38h: I don't have built-in lazer to measure temperature just by looking :)20:41
lcuki hate being simply a consumer :)20:41
lcukimrprovize20:41
lcukimprovise even20:41
RST38hlcuk: fertilizer producers too20:41
lcuklike my spelling20:41
lcukyeah20:41
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lcukthat /. link is me incase anyone didnt realise20:42
wazdanyway, hope Vlad will get the device asap20:42
lcukyeah hopefully20:42
lcukhes comin to summit isnt he?20:42
lcukwe missed him in cph20:42
wazdyep20:43
lcukgood20:43
lcukyou found a way out yet?20:43
lcukare you goin in his suitcase?20:43
RST38hlcuk: Ah, sneaky20:43
wazdvery small chance20:43
lcukRST38h, ?20:43
RST38hlcuk: I would never guess it was you at /.20:43
coldbootlcuk: lbt: fiferboy: In this form: https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/17699/addBookViewForm.ui titleLineEdit.nativeParentWidget() returns widget_2 ...20:43
wazdalmost no20:43
lcukhopefully :)20:43
lcukRST38h, :O nahh20:44
coldbootlcuk: lbt: fiferboy: Wait, not in every situation, don't bother downloading the form.20:44
lcukwas it my northernisms that copped you, or the sig20:44
lbtok20:44
coldbootSomething happens that converts widget_2 into a native widget, I guess.20:44
lcukanyway, must dash20:45
lcuk\o ttyl20:45
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coldbootlcuk: one sec20:46
coldbootlcuk: Where is the keyboard code?20:46
lcukwazd, when you are looking at omweather, just have a ponder about how a user might interact to correct it20:46
lcukerrr in qt20:46
lcuki did a google for it20:46
lcuki wasnt technically interested in qt itself20:46
lcuki needed to know how to use Fn and shift keys in liqbase20:46
wazdlcuk: there's absolutely no way to correct weather forecast20:47
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wazdlcuk: unless you run your own station20:47
lcukwazd, pie in the sky20:47
coldbootlcuk: Is there any special qt-maemo code that gets executed when you press the hardware keys in a Qt app?20:47
lcukhow would a user drag/move stuff20:47
lcukforget implementations etc20:47
wazdlcuk: it's not in the sky, its far from our galaxy :)20:47
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lcukof course its POSSIBLE to do anything coding wise20:47
lcukim just trying to see if theres a way to make omweather interactive20:47
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lcukthought experiment20:48
wazdlcuk: no need in doing OMW interactive20:48
* javispedro sees qt-him discussion and remembers something20:48
javispedrohttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=476820:48
lcukok dont worry20:48
zerojayI wonder why shopper is 7mb.20:48
javispedrodo you know what Antonio meant when he closed/fixed that bug?20:48
wazdlcuk: it's only goal is to show the weather forecast the way you want20:48
lbtzerojay: ?20:48
lbtit's not20:48
lcukwazd, i know, and it does that well20:48
lbtit's a few hundred kb20:48
lbtQt on the other hand :)20:49
lcukim merely trying to move to next thing20:49
lcukwe have gps20:49
javispedroI guess it's fixed as in "fixed in fremantle"20:49
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lcukwe know where and when it is20:49
lcukit might be fun to have user reports20:49
lcukthats all20:49
fiferboyI think programs in the h-a-m show the total "installed" size with dependencies20:49
zerojayAh, ok20:49
lbtyeah, that's misleading... but understandable20:49
Stskeepszerojay: re community translations we do part of it in Mer already - tomaszd is working on it mostly, but no transifex instance yet20:50
wazdlcuk: whats the purpose of that expensive thing? :)20:50
lcukwhat expensive thing20:50
Stskeepszerojay: if you want to team up with him to get some experiments going, feel welcome (#mer)20:50
wazdlcuk: user reports20:50
lcukim talking about just having fun, you know "what if.."20:50
lcukif you dont want to ask the question thats cool20:50
Stskeepszerojay: you'll probably need to push some stuff through maemo.org process20:50
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lcukwazd, i am english, discussing the weather is as important as watching the reports20:51
zerojayYeah, that's why i'm asking.20:51
wazdlcuk: Maybe that's just me, I always trying to suggest something available20:51
lcukif i could move a slider between sunny and rainy with slick anims it would be fun20:51
lcukit would be something i would want to show my friends20:51
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wazdlcuk: I don't understand why people should care bout the weather in other cities :)20:53
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lcukwazd20:53
lcukbetween myselef and girlfriend we have different weather20:53
lcuki just drove 2 miles and went from totally dry to wet20:53
wazdlcuk: use Twitter then :D20:54
wazdlcuk: or IM or something :)20:54
RST38hlcuk: Run two copies of omweather20:54
lcuk:) i will use something20:54
RST38hwazd: I suspect the cities where he lives and works have different weather =)20:54
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lcukbut not the right weather20:54
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lcukrarely the right weather20:54
RST38hThe only place with the right weather is California20:54
lcukit can say "rainy patches"20:55
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RST38hIt is said to eventually drive people mad, too20:55
lcukbut the rain might be on off20:55
lcukor not hit at all20:55
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wazdlcuk: seriously, the complains about "OMW doesn't show right weather" are fun :) What the hell can we do with that? :)20:55
lcuk:) anyway, ill put it in the melting pot20:55
lcuklet them change it!20:55
lcukpeople dont like it when something is wrong20:55
lcukif they could click and make it sunny20:56
lcukthey would smile20:56
RST38hMeanwhile: US Cell Phone Plans Among World's Most Expensive20:56
lcuk"hah, beat the bastard forecast!20:56
wazdI already let God to change weather. See what happened :D20:56
* Jaffa is prepping the election announcement.20:56
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lcukRST38h, you say theres a thermometer in device?20:57
lcukcan it get actual ambient temp or just cpu?20:57
wazdlcuk: yes, and OMWeather can show it's temp20:57
javispedromine's always at 33ºC so I guess CPU20:57
wazdlcuk: I guess cpu20:57
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lcukheh20:58
lcukright, must code anyway20:58
* lcuk watches the rain falling20:58
javispedroI want to code some auto-framerate thingie20:58
javispedroSDL20:58
RST38hlcuk: yep20:58
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wazdok, gotta go get something to eat21:00
wazdI forgot that I eat sometimes )21:00
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javispedropupnik_, you mentioned something about an arm cycle counter? is there more info about that?21:08
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GAN800wazd, you're gonna go into a diabetic coma one day and really regret that. :P ;)21:14
X-Fadelcuk: It is the temperature of the touch screen.21:14
lcukX-Fade, o'rly21:14
X-Fadelcuk: Probably needed as the touch screen is reacting differently when hot/cold.21:14
lcukso i could technically detect if someone is giving it a high 5?21:14
X-Fadelcuk: Depends on the energy emitted from your hand and the ambient temp ;)21:15
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lcukheh21:16
lcuk"nb, only works in finland"21:16
X-Fadelcuk: well the term resistive screen gives you a hint.21:17
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X-Fadelcuk: Resistance probably differs with temperature.21:17
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lcukeverything differs with temp21:18
lcukGeneralAntilles smiles when its sunny and is a grump when it rains21:18
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lcukX-Fade that does explain why touchscreens alter their sensitivity in different temps21:19
lcukand why some poeple can work on a cold tablet21:19
X-Fadelcuk: But who knows, maybe you can measure difference between a stylus and a living finger by the touchscreen values.21:19
lcukoi! go look back into os2006 code21:20
X-FadeNot only the area, but also the real values.21:20
lcukits like moon missions, you need some space cowboys21:20
javispedrojust electrocute the finger with the "conductive" tablet previously described here, if the pressure disappears it was a living finger. if it does not it was a dead finger.21:20
lcukwould be simpler takin a pic and counting the fingers lol21:20
lcukcan we stop with the attacks on fingers21:21
VDVsxok, my tablet just gone wild, it boots, turn the camera light for a second and than reboots :(21:21
javispedrothe camera as in, the red light?21:21
aoltablets gone wild 421:21
javispedros/light/led/21:21
infobotjavispedro meant: the camera as in, the red led?21:21
lcuklol VDVsx put some clothes on21:21
lcuk"eeek, vdvsx has no clothes on"21:22
lcukSHUTDOWNSHUTDOWNSHUTDOWN21:22
X-FadeWhen I left my laptop in the my car while it was freezing, it took an hour orso for the touchpad to come back again ;)21:22
VDVsxjavispedro, blue21:22
X-FadeFrozen touchpad, not good.21:22
javispedroah, n80021:22
lcukNO, NOT REALLY21:22
VDVsxjavispedro, n81021:22
lcukahem21:23
javispedrothe camera light is blue?21:23
lcukX-Fade, what range does the 810 have? would that have survived21:23
lcukno, red21:23
VDVsxmine is blue,lol21:23
X-Fadelcuk: I have no idea, but probably yes.21:23
lcuki know survived isnt the right word21:23
X-Fadelcuk: My N95 survived skiing trips just fine.21:23
javispedroVDVsx, did you try if the red led is working?21:23
lcuki remember qole taking his with kids in snow on a bike21:24
lcuk(mightv been someone else)21:24
javispedromaybe it's trying to light "white" (happens to me when wd reboots)21:24
VDVsxjavispedro, can't do anything :(21:24
javispedroreflash time :P21:25
VDVsxbahh21:25
X-Fadejavispedro: There is this color led app which lets you set any color.21:25
javispedroaa21:25
lcukX-Fade, cheap laptop then :P21:25
X-Fadelcuk: Well touchpad uses IR.21:25
X-Fadelcuk: It was just too cold to register the warmth of my fingers.21:26
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VDVsxok, boot Mer, than os2008, and It's working again :)21:26
VDVsxI even removed the battery earlier, strange thing21:27
javispedroa dirty filesystem21:27
javispedro(wild guess)21:28
VDVsxprobably, it happened after install last mer release21:28
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johnsqHi21:30
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sh0gun5hello21:37
sh0gun5anyone tried android on n810?21:37
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johnsqsh0gun5: why should I run java on a machine, where I can native applications?21:43
JaffaAnyone spot any typos or msitakes before I publish on maemo.org/news/ and talk.maemo.org?  http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2009-August/002665.html21:45
Jaffajohnsq: If there's an app you want to run that requires Java, or you want to develop cross-platform applications21:46
johnsqJaffa: yeah, than i use the android emulator.21:47
konttori__hmm... is there a java vm that would actually be fast on arm?21:47
javispedrocacao works pretty well.21:48
zerojayLooks all good here21:49
javispedroJaffa, (of particular interest to21:49
javispedroabout 1,600 talk.maemo.org account users who are are eliglbe21:49
Jaffakonttori__: OpenJDK's just had a new ASM interpreter21:49
javispedro^^^ see last word21:49
Jaffajavispedro: typo. doh21:49
Jaffajavispedro: ta. zerojay: ta21:49
konttori__nice. is that fast?21:49
X-FadeJaffa: mornth?21:50
Jaffakonttori__: Supposed to be fast. Hang on, let me find the URL: http://lists.evolvis.org/pipermail/jalimo-info/2009-July/000361.html21:50
JaffaX-Fade: Ta.21:50
javispedroa, the BIG21:50
X-FadeJaffa: it might be a good idea for canditates to specify what they are going to work on in their term.21:51
X-FadeJaffa: And being able to evaluate that at the end of the term?21:51
JaffaX-Fade: Indeed; I'm imagining more detail in the call-for-nominations21:51
JaffaX-Fade: However, I'm still keen for it to be primarily a facilitation role so that *doing* isn't viewed as something only the council can do.21:52
X-FadeJaffa: That would make the work of the council more clear for people who are not hardcore tracking the community.21:52
X-FadeYes, true facilitating is hard to measure.21:52
sh0gun5hmm, and what do you think about upcoming maemo 5 on nokia n900?21:53
sh0gun5are u gonna buy this phone?21:53
X-FadeJaffa: I for example know that you guys are doing things behind the scenes, because I'm sometimes in CC. But that is hard to follow for the public.21:54
zerojayWill if i can.21:54
X-FadeIt might be good to know for candidates what they can expect.21:54
X-FadeIf we take Qole as an example, he was asking what he was supposed to do _after_ he was elected.21:54
X-FadeThat means that the role isn't very clear.21:55
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Stskeepsoh boy, election time again22:11
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qwerty12_N810In related news: penguinbait and Darius are reportedly forming a coalition22:11
alteregoNOOOO!22:12
zerojayOf the willing?22:12
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Stskeepsi vote qwerty12_N810!22:12
qwerty12_N810Haha, I'm not cut out for work like that anyway. I can't even get my homework done on time...22:13
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JaffaX-Fade: I think a lot of that "not knowing what the role entails" is because they've never done a facilitation role.22:20
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VDVsxqwerty12_N810, gerbick is joining too :P22:25
JaffaMaemo's dead ;-)22:27
Stskeepsi'd vote in some trolls just to be able to watch ;)22:27
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Stskeepsqole ended up being all behaved after getting into council, :P22:27
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: ohshit22:27
Stskeeps(apologies to qole if he's watching)22:27
JaffaStskeeps: Tr...ue.22:27
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: "I read the logs."22:27
qwerty12_N810Joking, he's an awesome guy22:28
StskeepsJaffa: no announcement of voting on talk.? or did i miss it22:28
JaffaStskeeps: Was going to proof-read that a bit more; then a council news article; then a wiki page (with screenshots) on linking your account; then an announcement on talk22:28
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JaffaFun-filled evening for me. Somewhere in there I've got to pack for Stockholm22:28
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Stskeepsah, sounds fun22:29
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JaffaOh yeah22:32
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coldbootHas anyone ever got this in sb1? Don't know how to run.  Try "help target".22:35
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coldbootWhile using gdb, that is.22:35
Stskeepswhat's going to be most interesting about council is how many tries to get elected again22:36
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coldbootWhat did the computer scientist say to his friend when he asked if he had solved The Two Generals Problem?22:40
coldbootYes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.22:41
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coldbootCan you simulate using the physical maemo keyboard in scratchbox?23:00
woglinde????23:00
woglindeyou can you use your pc-keyboard in xephyr23:00
coldbootYeah I know, but it won't reproduce the bug properly.23:00
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JaffaIs http://wiki.maemo.org/Link_talk.maemo.org_account_with_maemo.org_profile too stupid a wiki page name?23:02
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StskeepsGet_Karma?23:07
Stskeeps:P23:07
Jaffaheh23:07
JaffaIt can always be renamed.23:07
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JaffaCreated.23:17
lbtzerojay: I'll take a look at the Meta theme issue -- I never thought to test it with another theme :)23:18
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zerojayNo problem. :)23:22
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coldbootWhy did someone make a QETWidget that's just a bunch of added member functions, instead of extending QWidget?23:34
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woglindehm Qt Development Framework23:41
woglindenew name23:41
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michaelmhello23:50
michaelmi have a quick question23:50
michaelmmaybe someone can assit me?23:50
lcukyou can assit yourself23:50
michaelmI am trying to set my channel for my 810 to channel 1423:50
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lcukwat?23:51
zerojayYour router need to change channel, not the tablet i don't think.23:51
michaelmmy n810, the wifi I would like to change it to channel 14 using the following command: iwpriv wlan0 set CountryRegion = 523:52
zerojayI assume you're not in the us?23:52
michaelmand I am geting an error23:52
* lcuk thought for a moment you were trying to watch television on tablet23:52
michaelmlol23:53
michaelmnice one :-)23:53
michaelmi get invalid command : set23:53
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zerojayAren't the channels hardcoded by region?23:53
johnsqi think the driver didn't support iwpriv.23:54
michaelmcorrect, which is why i would like to change my region code to 5 which is channel 1423:54
michaelmit does, but with certain commands23:54
michaelmwhich is why I am trying to figure this out23:54
lcukiwpriv -help23:55
javispedroisn't that set by wlancal?23:56
qwerty12_N810wlan-cal (in initfs) sets the channel information based on information stored in the config area in /dev/mtd223:56
lcukUsage: iwpriv interface [private-command [private-arguments]]23:56
lcuk              interface [roam {on|off}]23:56
lcuk              interface [port {ad-hoc|managed|N}]23:56
lcukset not required?23:56
lcukim reading a foreign page of someone with same problem, different pooter23:56
michaelmso how would i do it23:56
lcukso im just guessing23:56
lcukiwpriv wlan0 CountryRegion = 523:56
lcuktry it23:56
michaelmi dont know what the private-comman [private-arguments] are23:57
michaelminvalid command : CountryRegion23:57
qwerty12_N810michaelm: at this moment in time, you'd be better served changing the frequency on your router to one used in the US23:57
lcuksounds reasonable23:57
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qwerty12_N810*channel23:57
lcukand then of course you can pickup bbc123:57
michaelmyes i know but thats really not an option. I am using the n810 as a pen test tool and it has to work on 1423:58
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lcukno, you want to use it as a pen test tool23:58
lcukor has it suddenly stopped working23:58
lcukwhen it did before23:59
michaelmi have a program that scans all channels and also u can scan an individual channel. I can do channels 1-13 but not 1423:59

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