IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-08-06

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mmatthi checked the info for libc6 in sb2, and it's showing version 2.5.1-1eglibc12+harmattan+0m600:05
mmatthin light of the error i mentioned previously, should i be expecting this to show up as version 2.8.x in order to run the x86 emulator?00:07
fiferboylcuk: I've got thumbnails stored in my database now00:07
lcuk\o/00:08
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ProteousI keep my thumbnais firmly attached to my thumbs00:08
Proteousexcept for the bits I clip off now and then00:08
fiferboyIt is much quicker to load once the thumbnails are stored, and it will update the thumbnail if the datestamp is different00:08
woglindefiferboy hehe00:08
lcuk:) fiferboy nice00:10
fiferboylcuk: Thanks for the idea, I like it much better now00:11
woglindefiferboy and sqlite is fast enough?00:12
fiferboywoglinde: It isn't blazing, but it suffices00:12
lcukwoglinde, i have a 100mb database00:12
lcukand im doing basically the same as i was before00:13
woglindelcuk hm okay00:13
lcukdepends how you are using it i suppose00:13
lcukif you treat it like a desktop db it might get hairy00:13
lcukwoglinde, lots of apps use sqlite engine now underneath00:15
fiferboyI don't really like it for on-demand data loading, but that is how lcuk uses it00:15
lcukwith even bigger datasets (map apps)00:15
fiferboyI might have to look into going on-demand again, in a smarter way00:15
lcuklimit 1 doesnt make much difference btw00:15
fiferboyDang00:15
lcukthanks for suggestion00:15
lcukits not bad, im probably thinking with rose tints ;)00:16
woglindelcuk yes00:16
woglindebut there are some problems00:16
fiferboyIs it strange that my Qt application seems slower on the desktop (in virtualbox) than on my tablet?00:17
lcukno, emulation is hard00:17
woglinderight00:17
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lcukthats probably a good thing tho fiferboy, optimize it on the emulator which is slower - make it work well there, and it will be shithot where you need it00:18
fiferboyOkay, just wondering if it was possible that I made my program run slower on higer-end somehow ;)00:18
lcukhows it run natively on the same machine00:18
fiferboyI haven't compiled it natively lately, but I recall it being much smoother, so there is probably no issue00:19
lcukyeah00:19
lcukhave you noticed that kinetic doesnt "feel" right on desktop with mouse00:19
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mmatthand when i try to update libc6 in sb2 i'm being told i'm already on the latest version.  any ideas on getting off glibc 2.5 in sb2 to >= 2.8 ?00:19
lcuki hate using grab-drag in acrobat (but love the little flexing hand mouse cursor)00:20
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fiferboyYes, kinetic seems out of place with a mouse00:20
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lcukmmatth, in sb2 you have harmattan libs?00:20
RST38hlcuk: that is because you have to use a live mouse00:20
RST38hlcuk: so that it is kinetically authentic00:21
lcuki tried that, but everytime i try to display a file in the console it ran away00:21
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lcukexample:00:21
lcuk> cat myfile00:22
fiferboylcuk: Have you tried kinetic on mouse wheel scroll?00:22
woglindehm00:22
coldbootIs there a way to give sb1 access to your home directory?00:22
woglindeI should try tbb at least00:22
lcukcoldboot, symlink00:22
coldbootApparently I can't do hard links for directories, and sb1 doesn't like soft links.00:22
javispedrocoldboot, bind mount00:22
lcukmake the symlink OUTSIDE sb00:22
coldbootjavispedro: That'll be it.00:22
lcukbut pointing to the right folder00:22
mmatthlcuk, yes prerelease & current rootstraps00:23
lcukcool00:23
lcukcoldboot, i did the same for a while using sshfs00:23
coldbootlcuk: So give an example? I have ~/scratchbox/users/nhooey/home/nhooey and I want it to point to ~/00:23
coldbootBoth of those paths are displayed relative to root, not inside sb1 or anything.00:23
coldbootI installed scratchbox in ~/scratchbox00:24
fiferboycoldboot: I've had that problem too00:24
johnsqcoldboot: hardlinks00:24
fiferboyUsually when I want to access something in sb from outside its fs I push it there from outside00:25
javispedrohardlinks don't work for directories neither cross-filesystem00:25
coldbootfiferboy: Then you'll get synching problems.00:25
coldbootIt would be nice if sb2 didn't suck so much. It's design is better.00:25
johnsqjavispedro: iirc linux support hardlinks on dirs, but not across filesystems00:25
woglindecoldboot hm00:26
lcukisnt it ln -s /home/coldboot /home/coldboot/scratchbox/users/nhooey/home/nhooe00:26
woglindeI had more problems with sb100:26
coldbootlcuk: Scratchbox complains that there's too many levels of symlinks.00:26
fiferboycoldboot: What are you trying to access?00:26
coldbootwoglinde: Me too, but I hit ceilings in sb2 where something simply isn't possible. Like using gdb or valgrind.00:26
lcukscratchbox shouldnt know its a symlink tho? unless its recursively scanning00:26
coldbootfiferboy: I just want my home dir in scratchbox to be my actual home dir.00:26
lcukwhen you make the link its not done as part of sb00:27
coldbootlcuk: Yeah I don't know what it's complaining about.00:27
coldbootlcuk: It is reading it from outside at some level, though.00:27
lcukdoes it work when its not universe imploding?00:27
Mekyou can use mount --bind to mount some dir somewhere else in you fs00:27
javispedrobinding works pretty well and it's fastest, and since sb1 makes _a lot_ of bind mounts either way00:27
lcukln -s /usr/share /home/coldboot/scratchbox/users/nhooey/home/nhooe00:27
coldbootlcuk: Ah, that worked.00:28
lcukand since scratchbox is normally installed in /00:29
coldbootlcuk: Ah, it's because my scratchbox is in my home.00:29
coldbootHmmmm...00:29
coldbootlcuk: I'll put it in /home/scratchbox00:30
lcukim lucky in that respect, my scratchbox machine is used only for sb00:30
lcukin dev sense anyway00:30
lcukso i just move all files into the correct sb portion00:31
coldbootI didn't have space on /00:31
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javispedronow that I can use my main machine for sb1, I just lvm-create'd a /scratchbox 10G partition, some binds, and are working very happy right now :)00:31
lcuki just add the repos to my n810, and get the build-deps required and work happy too :)00:32
javispedroI still consider on-device development cruel :)00:33
lcukits fast00:34
lcuki just cant get my work off it ;)00:34
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pupnik_"Apple earned just over $5 billion in the first half of the year, making it the fifth biggest player in terms of revenue, behind Nokia, Samsung, RIM, and LG. Apple lead the world in actually making money however, with just over $2 billion in operating profits."00:38
copumpkinI forgot the password I set on an n800... is there some way I can start it up in single-user mode to fix it?00:39
pupnik_i thought they were goners in the 90s00:39
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lcukpupnik_, \o many people did00:39
copumpkinI just need to recover some files in my home folder, so I don't want to reflash the whole thing00:40
pupnik_there's a password?00:40
javispedrocopumpkin, you mean the "device code"?00:40
copumpkinnah, I mean my user password00:41
copumpkinI had ssh etc. set up on it00:41
pupnik_did you change root pw?00:41
copumpkinusing that red/blue pill thing that was hidden in the package manager, iirc00:41
copumpkinyeah00:41
copumpkinwell, I think I did00:41
copumpkindo you know what the default is?00:41
javispedroif you can boot the device just install rootsh and do as you wish00:41
pupnik_i did but not right now00:41
copumpkinit's rootme, but that didn't work00:42
copumpkinjavispedro: yeah, it boots fine, I'm just stuck in the wrong user00:42
javispedrowrong user?00:42
copumpkinwell I created a user on the device whose password I forgot :P00:42
copumpkinand now I'm locked out00:42
javispedrothat makes no sense. the device boots root, then should su to "user", no way for you to get locked out unless you borked the init scripts00:43
javispedroand if you created an extra user, just gain root and do passwd as you please00:44
coldbootlcuk: It interprets the links literally and doesn't work.00:45
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coldbootlcuk: Bind mount00:45
javispedroand it's "rootsh", at least in Diablo00:45
pupnik_javispedro: can rootsh gain a root shell if root pw was changed?00:45
qwerty12_N810yes, rootsh is setuid00:45
javispedro^^ :)00:45
pupnik_handy00:46
javispedroafaik, root uses sudo00:46
javispedrorootsh is setuid00:46
qwerty12_N810Which is why I left it in there :)00:46
copumpkinlol00:46
copumpkinjohn the ripper got it in 26 seconds00:46
copumpkinI'd set it to something really easy so I could let a coworker on00:47
javispedronot impressed. the tablet does not use shadow.00:47
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qwerty12_N810With a device lock code that can be easily obtained; the tablet isn't about security :P00:48
copumpkinwell I'm glad :P00:48
javispedroqwerty12_N810, I'm worried about that. If I put in a code, then shut the thing down, will I be able to recover?00:48
javispedro(of course having forgotten the code)00:49
qwerty12_N810Yep. I once made a custom initfs image that spit out the code as the tablet started :)00:49
javispedroah, nice :)00:50
copumpkinthanks everyone :)00:51
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lardman~curse segfaults01:00
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, segfaults !01:00
coldboothaha01:00
coldboot~curse lardman01:00
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, lardman !01:00
lardmanoi!01:00
lcuk~lart coldboot01:00
* infobot does a little 'renice 20 -u coldboot'01:00
lardmanthat's beyond the pale01:00
coldboot~nice coldboot01:02
* infobot lowers coldboot's priority01:02
coldboot~nice -20 coldboot01:02
* infobot lowers -20 coldboot's priority01:02
coldboot~nice or rather... raises coldboot01:03
* infobot lowers or rather... raises coldboot's priority01:03
coldbootha01:03
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pupnik_i seem to recall someone had the bright idea for a bot that would respond to chat without any special metacharacter to invoke it01:28
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pupniktook care of that, didn't we01:29
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wazdhttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/08/img_1677_540x405.png <- Zune HD is really sexy device01:33
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nomiseek. teh colors!01:34
lcukwazd, aww, we cant call it a turd anymore01:34
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javispedrotahoma...01:35
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lcukno need to swear01:36
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wazdI wonder if n900 will have proper color depth screen01:43
wazdIt will be a great mistake to spoil such a baby with old screen :(01:44
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pupnikyou mean 24 bit or what wazd01:45
wazdpupnik: yep01:45
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wazdI bought n800 mostly for it's screen :)01:46
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Mekdon't the fremantle sdk instructions tell you to start xephy in 16bpp mode?01:46
tbfwazd: what do you call proper color depth?01:46
wazdI can  imagine future buyers that will come to the Nokia store, look at the n900 and say "omfg, what a screen, gimme two!11" :)01:46
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pupniki hope to see the n900 *in* stores01:47
pupnikhaven't seen a tablet on display in germany anywhere yet01:47
wazdtbf: Like all modern displays (Pre/iPhone/Hero) - 24 bpp01:47
tbfwazd: well, 24 or even 32 bits means more data to transfer... causing higher power consumption01:48
wazdtbf: 32 is an overkill :)01:48
tbfwazd: and 16 bit with dithering can also look quite neat on 16 bpp i guess01:48
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tbfwazd: with that high screen res01:49
wazdtbf: yes, but trust me, they totally worth that power01:49
wazdtbf: that's not only gradients that look bad01:49
lcukthe screen can handle 24bit color, its just desktop resolution has option of being 16bit01:49
wazdlcuk: current or future?01:51
lcukcurrent01:51
wazdlcuk: oh01:51
lcukrunning in yuv mode is 24bit colordepth01:51
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lcukeven tho desktop is 1601:51
wazdlcuk: that sucks :)01:51
lcuknahhh ;) just show people movies lol01:52
lcukhows the kb now01:52
pupnikthe physical screen on n810 can do > 16bpp?01:53
lcukwell liqbase runs and a pixel is 8bit luma + 16 bits of chroma01:53
lcuk65k colors for each level of luma01:54
pupnikmy brain must adapt to this information01:55
javispedroaha, so the one setting the inotify watchpoints is "gnome-vfs-filechooser-backend". ok, bring it to the party!01:55
pupniki don't know enough how lcd controllers work01:55
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wazdhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090208_205336.lib.scr.png <- well, this shot kinda proves it :)01:55
lcukheh01:56
lcukproves what? that its higher or lower?01:56
lcukits normally me that digs out images like that lol, where did you have that saved ?01:56
wazdlcuk: that kiqbase runs in 24bpp :)01:56
wazdlcuk: google :)01:57
lcuk:O01:57
lcuki have google images of my pics :D01:57
lcuki didnt know that, i never clicked01:57
lcukliqbase used to have nothing :$01:57
lardmanhmm, anyone noticed that GstAppSink isn't present in our version of GStreamer?01:58
pupnikso... apps can't be on receivingn end of an audio stream?01:59
lcukthey must be mustnt they>?01:59
javispedrowith all that dsp trickyness01:59
lardmanappsink allows you to manually grab at the data01:59
lardmanrather than writing your own GStreamer sink element01:59
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lardmanStskeeps: what version of GStreamer are you using with Mer out of interest?02:13
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Macerhm n810 showed up02:37
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lardmannight all02:40
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javispedrotimeless, just found this in hildonfm:03:09
javispedroThis function checks if the given URI already exists in the model. if not, then a copy of it is returned unmodified. If the URI already exists then a number is added in a form file://file(2).html.03:09
timeless_mbpok..03:10
javispedrohildon_file_system_model_autoname_uri03:10
timeless_mbpwas that in reference to my question about copying?03:10
javispedroyep03:11
timeless_mbpyou'll have to wait for fremantle's file manager to understand my question03:11
timeless_mbpunless the string is public03:11
timeless_mbpin which case.. hrm03:11
javispedrodunno what you mean with "the string", but I found that in diablo hildon-fm docs03:12
timeless_mbpit's public!03:12
timeless_mbpmsgid "sfil_ib_file_already_saved"03:13
timeless_mbpmsgstr "File already saved in this location"03:13
timeless_mbpthat's from the maemo 5 public strings03:13
timeless_mbpimagine using file manager and trying to copy a file and selecting the same destination folder as the source folder03:13
timeless_mbpwell, if it's public, i wonder if i can file a bug about it :)03:13
javispedrowell, "the string" already appears to be on bugs.maemo.org according to google, so maybe you're late ;)03:15
javispedroin a bug.. filed by you btw03:15
timeless_mbpoh03:15
javispedro#405203:15
timeless_mbpyeah, gmail shows me having filed it03:16
timeless_mbphrm, ok, so hrm03:17
timeless_mbphow do i prove that file manager is dumb enough to trigger this code path?03:17
timeless_mbpi don't suppose you have sources for hildon-fm from fremantle <http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/libh/libhildonfm/>03:18
javispedronope, my development model uses printfs and as such I need my n81003:18
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javispedroup so far all I believe I've found is that ossofilemanager is a light wrapper over hildon-fm widgets, and in fact it seems my problem is on HildonFileSystemModel03:20
timeless_mbpnot surprising03:21
timeless_mbpok, the string doesn't seem to be present in that source ball03:22
timeless_mbpwhich means i can't prove we're using it03:22
timeless_mbpwhat a shame03:22
* timeless_mbp ponders03:24
timeless_mbpso, the current string makes no sense03:24
timeless_mbpthe Mer string just says "Saved"03:24
timeless_mbpi.e. it lies03:25
timeless_mbpbut, if you try to copy A from B to B03:25
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Texrat:p03:25
timeless_mbpone could say that you've managed to save A in B, because, A is in B when you're done :)03:25
Texrathey timeless03:25
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timeless_mbphi03:25
javispedroah, the philosophical question of personal identity, file edition :P03:26
* Texrat slaps milhouse around a bit with a large trout03:26
timeless_mbpjavispedro: the strings we have internally are amazing03:27
timeless_mbpi can't wait to rewrite them03:27
* javispedro calls it a day 03:30
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javispedrognite all03:35
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timeless_mbpooh, 3 bug jars?03:47
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* b-man16 slaps xnt14_ around a bit with a large trout06:11
xnt14_wtf06:11
xnt14_:P06:11
* b-man16 hates his irc client XP06:11
xnt14_b-man, your site is up btw ;)06:11
xnt14_http://b-man.xceleo.org06:11
b-man16sweet :)06:11
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xnt14_look at the gallery06:12
xnt14_;)06:12
b-man16really nice :D06:12
GeneralAntillesHowdy, Texrat.06:13
GeneralAntillesWelcome to the Cool Cat's Club. ;)06:13
* b-man16 is still waiting for his tablet to arrive xP06:13
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xnt14_:P06:15
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* xnt14_ needs to go to sleep X(06:29
xnt14_tell b-man I had to go to sleep X(06:30
xnt14_:P06:30
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FireFox16hmm06:32
FireFox16~seen xnt1406:32
infobotxnt14 <n=xnt@pool-96-232-136-95.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 23h 19m 50s ago, saying: 'im back'.06:32
FireFox16:P06:32
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chxso ... if i have a regular 3.5" headphone can i just plug it in my N810 and it should work?06:52
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Macerwow07:07
Macerthis n810 kind of sucks07:07
Macerthe keypad is horrible07:07
Macerlol07:08
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divide_by_zero...What PC programs work well with video calls othen than the official Gizmo one?07:15
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Macerdivide.. nothing07:22
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esaym153Macer: I think the keyboard is alright07:52
RST38hhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/06/mips_android_port_open_sourced/07:54
RST38hOh god, MIPS Tech is still alive....07:55
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RST38hhttp://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10237_Presenting_the_Cityman_450_ant.php08:15
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RST38hPlease tell me it is a joke08:16
StskeepsN900? :P08:17
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RST38hworse08:17
doc|homeRST38h: it must be, because I'd personally be tempted to take your fake-ancient phone off you and beat you to death with it...08:17
Macerinstalling carman now08:18
Macerheh08:18
RST38heither it is a joke (unlikely given the pictures) or someone at Nokia is feasting on toadstools.08:19
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divide_by_zeroI would bet it[ s some king of gift celebrating nokias evolution, to be given at company parties, etc...08:36
Luke-JrROFL08:42
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Macerwell08:55
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JaffaMorning, all10:41
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RST38hMoorning Jaffa10:47
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* timeless_mbp looks around11:31
* timeless_mbp looks for niels11:31
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andre__he's here...11:35
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X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Just hiding..11:45
timeless_mbpandre__: for kicks, try copying a file to its current location in file manager11:45
timeless_mbpX-Fade: it'd help if you changed your real name to include (X-Fade) in bugzilla :)11:46
X-FadeNah, that is the other me ;)11:46
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timeless_mbpit makes it harder for me to hunt you11:47
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Good.11:47
timeless_mbpX-Fade: so....11:47
timeless_mbpget a gecko browser11:47
timeless_mbpload about:config11:47
timeless_mbpset the intl.accept_languages preference to "en-US,en;q=0.9,ja;q=0.8,fr;q=0.7,de;q=0.6,es;q=0.5,it;q=0.4,pt;q=0.3,pt-PT;q=0.2,nl;q=0.1"11:48
timeless_mbpthen flush all your caches and try to load garage.maemo.org11:48
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X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Don't see any problem?11:51
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: FF 3.5.211:51
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.9,ja;q=0.8,fr;q=0.7,de;q=0.6,es;q=0.5,it;q=0.4,pt;q=0.3,pt-PT;q=0.2,nl;q=0.111:53
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Macerwell12:37
Macerguess i need a $3000 upgrade to get my n810 to work with my car12:37
Macerwhy does this n810 nees less responsive with the screen than my n810 used to be12:38
Stskeepsn800 you mean12:39
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RST38hTouchscreens lose sensitivity with time12:42
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MacerStskeeps: yes12:44
Macern80012:44
StskeepsMacer: it doesn't scratch as much though12:44
MacerRST38h: the n810 is brand new out the factory sealed box12:45
X-FadeMacer: Did you remove the protective film?12:45
Macerderf: around?12:45
MacerX-Fade: yes12:45
Macerhad to, it had some sticker on it12:46
X-FadeMacer: Ok, just checking. A lot of people thing it is a screen protector ;)12:46
Macerthat peeled off like a car registration sticker12:46
Macerwhere it leftg half behind12:46
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MacerX-Fade: i would have left it on otherwise12:47
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RST38hMacer: then it is weird12:53
RST38hYes, Nokia has those ugly reflective stickers on its n810 films12:54
* RST38h has absolutely no idea why Nokia just wouldn't ship devices with protective film that does not require immediate removal. Still using original Nokia film on E7012:54
JaffaHmm, COGL (Clutter's OpenGL abstraction library) could be handy for dealing with OpenGL/OpenGL-ES differences in SDK vs. device; and deal with the fact that Clutter-based window manager in Fremantle has the graphics context.12:54
MacerRST38h: ii know12:55
Macermy g1 has had its cover on itg for montths12:55
floriangood morning12:55
Macersince i bought it12:55
RST38hI guess it is another instance of not really listening to customers12:56
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Maceryou can buy 3rd party films12:56
Macermaybe it is a racket12:56
RST38hYes, but why? Nokia already ships devices with the film attached12:56
slonopotamusmeh, fremantle isn't out yet, but already obsolete as next maemo version will be qt-based. letz just skip it? :)12:57
RST38hAnd it is a semi-decent film too.12:57
Macerit is a great film12:57
Macerhtc uses the same stuff12:57
Macercan still touch screen easily12:57
qwerty12_N810slonopotamus++12:57
Macerand takes a  diamond to scratch12:57
Stskeepsslonopotamus: i still want the hardware though12:58
RST38hslonopotamus: Why not skip on the whole platform then?12:58
slonopotamusRST38h, don't get your logic12:59
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RST38hslonopotamus: Well, when Harmattan arrives it will already by outdated13:02
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RST38hslonopotamus: So, what is the purpose of using devices that become outdated before they ship?13:02
RST38hehlo wazd13:03
Jaffaslonopotamus: And Gtk+'ll be available for third party apps, exactly as Python is now.13:03
timeless_mbpX-Fade: hrm... someone else had the same behavior i got...13:05
slonopotamusRST38h, knowing that it is already obsolete destroys deside too write apps for it13:05
wazdRST38h: heya13:07
wazdhello all13:07
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RST38hHe is basically right13:08
Stskeepswhy on earth on the day that i want to do something else, i get hit with a shitstorm of weird FUD? :P13:09
Stskeeps(someone is claiming to vendors and forums and other places Mer destroys devices)13:10
timeless_mbpheh13:10
timeless_mbpis this talk.m.o?13:11
Stskeepsno, other places13:11
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: You're not serious?13:11
* timeless_mbp wants to read13:11
RST38hSts: Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.13:11
timeless_mbpFUD is good for digesting FOOD, right?13:11
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RST38hSts: But, I mean, once I return from lunch, we can haunt the poor guy to eventual suicide or something13:12
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: i'm really wondering how you can destroy a device that is so low level hackable that you can make it boot your own boot sector and it can run from DC exclusively..13:12
Stskeepsas in, from SW pov13:12
timeless_mbpStskeeps: is this a nokia device or something else?13:13
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: something else, afaik mer hasn't ever destroyed any nokia devices13:13
Stskeepsnolo's too failsafe for that13:13
timeless_mbpcool13:13
qwerty12_N810Add that to the fact that Mer has no reason to touch NOLO13:13
Stskeepsyeah13:13
Stskeepsbut when someone is writing warning posts to people, IM'ing sellers of the devices, etc..13:14
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Stskeepsinstead of trying to fix the problem, that's just absurd :)13:14
Stskeepsor even reporting it13:14
X-Fadejeremiah: Ping?13:16
lcukStskeeps, i think the difference with smartq and nokia devices is people are dualbooting with maemo still (or using the emulator) and from what ive heard of smartq, they are installing mer13:16
lcukwholesale13:16
timeless_mbphrm13:17
timeless_mbpapt-get dist-upgrade isn't working for me13:17
Stskeepsin :Devel or in maemo?13:17
Stskeeps:Devel is broken to bits at the moment as we're inserting FB2 bits :)13:17
* timeless_mbp doesn't understand13:18
Stskeepsremoving libhildonhelp and such causes a interesting amount of problems13:18
timeless_mbpheh13:19
* timeless_mbp upgrades from vbox3.0.2 to vbox3.0.413:19
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qwerty12_N810That shouldn't really be removed IMO. If it's not in Fremantle, I can't see any apps there conflicting with it and keeping it in allows more Diablo apps to run (well, the few that actually used libhildonhelp)13:20
qwerty12_N810OTOH, maintaining it to build against Fremantle components may be a pain in the ass13:21
JaffaX-Fade: is there going to be a cname for packages.maemo.org -> maemo.org/packages/13:21
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: yes, we did remove it :)13:22
X-FadeJaffa: Might be, but haven't requested it yet.13:22
timeless_mbpX-Fade: so um... http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/13:22
timeless_mbpcould you use letters instead of numbers?13:22
timeless_mbp1 2 3 4 5 6 next »13:22
timeless_mbpisn't helpful13:22
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: but yeah, i see your argument13:22
Stskeepswe might re-add it eventually. but right now, we need it removed to see where our dependancies to it lay13:23
timeless_mbpgiving me "A-Ap" "Aq-F" "G-R" "R-S" "T-W" "Y-Z" is better13:23
Jaffatimeless_mbp X-Fade: and increase the page size (e.g. double ;-))13:23
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: It really isn't meant for browsing. And yes, alphabetical index is on my list.13:23
timeless_mbpX-Fade: also, don't use multiple lines for multiple versions of the same package13:24
timeless_mbpstick the older versions into parens w/ commas after the latest version13:24
timeless_mbpalso, make the columns wider13:24
timeless_mbpGstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-dbg13:24
timeless_mbpwraps13:24
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timeless_mbpGstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse-dbg is worse :)13:25
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: I'm happy to take patches :)13:25
timeless_mbpi'm happy to give feedback on irc :)13:25
timeless_mbpyou're using a bunch of divs instead of a table?13:25
X-FadeIt would be nice if the database could sort by debian version numbers btw ;)13:26
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: it'd also be nice if the numbers weren't random13:31
timeless_mbpshowing me 1..6 implies that 6 is the last number13:31
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timeless_mbpbut when i clicked 5, it turns out there was a 10 too13:32
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: -> upstream qbpager13:32
timeless_mbpalso, Latest packages should really give dates13:32
timeless_mbpnot just random 4 digits w/ :'s13:32
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timeless_mbpalternatively give me relative time "5 mins ago" "1 hour ago"13:32
timeless_mbphttp://maemo.org/packages/view/gpxview/13:33
timeless_mbpthe releases thing is missing the left border of its box, is that intentional?13:33
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: yes13:33
timeless_mbphttp://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_extras-devel_free_intel/?org_openpsa_qbpager_packages_in_repo_page=513:33
timeless_mbpthat page is unfriendly13:34
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Well, it is default styling for maemo.org13:34
timeless_mbpperhaps you wanted an "N" in NOT_FOUND instead of NOT_FOUD ?13:34
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: heh ;)13:34
timeless_mbpNotice: Use of undefined constant MIDCOM_NOTFOUD - assumed 'MIDCOM_NOTFOUD' in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/packages/handler/repository/list.php on line 6913:34
timeless_mbpfor people too lazy to click the link13:35
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: http://trac.midgard-project.org/changeset/2309313:36
timeless_mbp:)13:37
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timeless_mbpwhen does that roll out?13:37
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timeless_mbpNotice: Use of undefined constant MIDCOM_NOTFOUND - assumed 'MIDCOM_NOTFOUND' in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/packages/handler/repository/list.php on line 6913:38
timeless_mbpit's [a]live!13:38
timeless_mbpi don't suppose you could make it *not* be an undefined constant? :)13:38
X-Fadelol, fix the fix.13:38
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timeless_mbpdoes http://svn.midgard-project.org/ have an anonymous user?13:41
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X-Fadetimeless_mbp: svn co https://svn.midgard-project.org/midgard/branches/ragnaroek/midcom/13:43
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* timeless_mbp grumbles13:44
taligGood day everyone :) Anyone up to answer some pesky gtk questions?13:44
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: i think you want MIDCOM_ERRNOTFOUND13:48
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: lol, refresh the page already ;)13:48
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X-Fadetimeless_mbp: 7 mins ago: http://trac.midgard-project.org/changeset/2309413:49
timeless_mbpmuch better13:49
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: there are 4 instances of MIDCOM_ERR_NOTFOUND instead of MIDCOM_ERRNOTFOUND13:50
timeless_mbpyou should probably fix those 4 instances13:50
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Not in my component, let me check the others.13:51
timeless_mbpmidcom/net.nemein.organizations/handler/.svn/text-base/view.php13:51
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timeless_mbpor rather: midcom/net.nemein.personnel/handler/view.php13:51
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: I see 2 instances yes.13:51
timeless_mbpmy grep doesn't discern between files and .svn files13:51
timeless_mbpso yeah 2, might as well fix them13:52
X-Fadeyeah.13:52
X-FadeFixed.13:53
timeless_mbphttp://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_extras_non-free_i386/13:53
timeless_mbpis strange13:53
X-FadeThere aren't any packages.13:54
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timeless_mbpyeah, but there's a thing on the right13:54
timeless_mbpplease don't make me guess that a blank page means there aren't any packages13:54
timeless_mbpand please don't show "latest packages" if they aren't related...13:54
X-FadeAs I said earlier. I've only implemented the basic needed functionality, everything else still needs to be refined.13:55
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Jaffatimeless_mbp: see also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=308799 where I start trolling for UI suggestions, so X-Fade can concentrate on features14:02
X-FadeOnce the complete promotion chain works and is alive, I will improve looks and nice to have features.14:05
X-FadeBut current interface is in release early, release often spirit. So yeah, rough edges.14:06
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: some of these edges that i'm highlighting won't be seen often once the system fleshes out14:08
timeless_mbpso, the only time to complain and fix is now :)14:08
taligAnyone with some gtk/pygtk experience?14:12
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X-Fadetimeless_mbp: The relevance of bugs that won't be seen often is debatable ;)14:15
X-FadeAnyway, lunch!14:15
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lcuktalig, fire away, if someone sees a question they like, they will answer14:29
timeless_mbpX-Fade: um, http://maemo.org/profile/view/timeless/14:30
timeless_mbpwhy does "2" "comments" give me an incredibly long bar? :)14:30
timeless_mbpaww sjgadsby has topped me in karma14:31
RST38hah the horror14:32
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lardmanhi chaps15:20
RST38hhello lardmann15:23
lardmanhi RST38h15:26
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lardmananyone know if the n810 has a microphone other than that in the headset?15:35
X-Fadelardman: Yes, in the body.15:35
RST38hlardman: it does15:35
RST38hat least Skype works both ways in it =)15:35
lardmanhmm, mine seems to be broken then15:35
lardmanoh well15:36
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lardmanspent hours last night debugging GStreamer pipeline, then plugged in the headphones on the off chance and it works fine15:36
X-Fadelardman: Note that when you use a headphone, it is disabled.15:36
X-Fadelardman: no matter if you have a mic on the headphone cable or not.15:36
lardmanyeah, works through the headphone mic, not in the body15:36
MekX-Fade: not true, I have used skype with headphones but no external mic15:36
lardmanwith that said the speaker is also playing up - works with headphones but not without unless I reboot15:37
X-FadeMek: That doesn't work for me.15:37
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X-FadeMek: And I believe me, I tried ;)15:37
Mekhmm.. strange...15:38
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, challenge him to single combat!15:39
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timeless_mbpandre__: ping15:42
andre__timeless_mbp, , pong15:42
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VDVsxlardman, btw, did you finished the maemo zbar package ?15:59
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lardmanyes, sorry forgot about that16:01
lardmanlet me upload the files somewhere for you16:01
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lardmanhttp://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/temp/16:04
taliglcuk: Thanks, I was out for lunch when you answered. I got by in the meantime  - thanks.16:04
lardmanJaffa: the MUD xml is in there too if you'd like it16:05
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lardmanVDVsx: just added the binary too16:05
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lardmanhmm, best check that the MUD recipe works, now that I think about it I had to tweak it a but16:06
lardmanbit16:06
lardmanVDVsx: I just updated the source packages, so check you've got the latest ones from that dir16:07
VDVsxlardman, ok, thanks :)16:08
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lardmannp16:08
lardmanam slowly plodding through porting the C interface to Python16:09
lardmangot a bit sidetracked recently with some other things16:09
lardmans/interface/GUI code16:09
lardmanjust to clarify :)16:10
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GAN8001How is it that the only case manufacturer that seems to be able to make something that doesn't look like hell can only do so because they clone Apple designs?16:11
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Jaffalardman: cool16:17
lardmanJaffa: perhaps not so cool, I'm not sure if it works without a tweak...16:17
lardmanbut my tweak may just have been to change the cpu flags, was a while back now so can't rememeber16:18
lardmanI'll have to try building it again and see what happens16:19
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lardmanoh look at the time, back to work16:21
lardmanbye!16:21
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ShadowJKgan801: antec p18x doesn't llok like hell16:29
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ShadowJKthen there's that manufacturer with fortress-series of cases that look like something that came out of hell16:29
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GAN800ShadowJK, mmm. . . . Subjective.16:31
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ShadowJKyeah16:32
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ShadowJKnow 5 days and counting with n810 as only computer16:34
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Andy80anyone of you uses ESBox?16:42
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* Jaffa tried it briefly. Then tried v2 as a beta. It didn't work in the version of Eclipse I had, at the time. Started looking at the code. Gave up.16:45
talig1In pygtk: Is the best tabbed container a Notebook or is there something else?16:45
JaffaAndy80: I mean to try it again16:45
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Andy80Jaffa, I'm trying the "bundled" version... the one with all Eclipse... but it doesn't work... I get an error (I've told about it on #esbox but no reply...)16:46
* Jaffa has his own Eclipse for PyDev, PHP and Java work; so didn't look at the bundled version.16:47
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xnt14~seen b-man1616:48
infobotb-man16 <n=mckenzba@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10h 35m 53s ago, saying: 'really nice :D'.16:48
xnt14hmm :P16:48
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zpolhola16:55
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* RST38h promptly throws up at the mention of Eclipse17:03
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mmatthAndy80, i used esbox for a little bit on fremantle.  it worked great and then i switched rootstraps or reinstalled sbox (forgot the exact scenario) and it stoped showing local variables when i was debugging.  i could still step, but couldn't view any data17:25
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Andy80mmatth, ah... don't know... I'm getting this error: when I do "Validate Installed Packages" I get this error: Failed to query apt database17:27
Andy80Cause: Failed to launch: Aug 6, 2009 2:37:44 PM:17:27
Andy80.$ apt-cache dumpavail17:27
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mmatthi don't recall ever seeing that17:28
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taligI need some help with gtk Notebook - that won't show me tabs :(17:43
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yergatalig, add yournotebook.set_show_tabs(True)17:47
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mmatththere isn't any channel for sb2 is there?17:49
taligyerga: Already done.17:49
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mmatthif i'm in sb2 devel mode, how can i switch to emulate mode without exiting sb2 and logging back in17:53
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Andy80very OT: does Twitter website work for you at the moment?18:04
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VDVsxAndy80, nop18:26
VDVsxtwitter clash :P18:26
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lcukAndy80, http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/08/06/1524213     its actually just rubbernecking effect18:34
lcuk"is twitter down for you"18:35
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lcukclick click multi tab click click click refresh refresh refresh   yup, its down18:35
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VDVsxbastards!!!18:36
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Stskeepsmm?18:37
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javispedrohah. Slashdot's javascript as usual:  "No matches were found. You may want to try modifying your search  or lowering your color threshold to blue". on frontpage.18:38
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krfkeithhi20:05
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Luddekhi20:05
krfkeithI'm considering buying a n810, but can any tell me from their experience how good the audio quality is through heasphones20:05
krfkeithobviously, better headphones would be better20:06
krfkeithbut, say, in comparison to an iPod20:06
RST38hehlo all20:06
RST38hkrfk: iPod is better.20:06
RST38hkrfk: n810 is pretty good though, with two main complaints being low volume and slight background noise20:07
krfkeithah20:08
* mgedmin fixed the low volume problem by buying better earbuds20:08
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RST38hipod can do much less though20:08
mgedminthe user interface is somewhat cumbersome20:08
* Firebird fixed the low volume by using a2dp20:08
krfkeithwell, speicifically, the iPod touch, I've never used one before20:08
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krfkeithI would imagine that a dedicated audio player had better quality20:08
krfkeithjust, FYI, I would never buy a POS like the iPod, just looking for a benchmark I can relate to20:09
krfkeithor alternatively, maybe I should wait for that RX51 thing to come out?20:09
* mgedmin probably would buy an iPod if Apple'd allow him to upload some music from his Linux laptop 20:09
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krfkeithif I were to buy an iPod like device, I would just get something like an iRiver20:10
RST38hrx51 is apparently a phone20:11
Stskeepsnew info? :P20:11
RST38hwell, sum of all the pieces20:12
krfkeithits a maemo phone though right?20:12
StskeepsRST38h: the main issue is really that we see the platform and glimpses of HW through kernel20:12
Stskeepsfremantle as an possible phone platform makes sense20:12
Macerwell20:13
RST38hSts: I have got a few more pieces to look at through my crystal balls20:13
Stskeepsso we have no idea if rx-51 is just the developer unit we saw20:13
Macern810 isnt that bad20:13
Macerkeypad still sucks compared to the g120:13
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Stskeeps(which i'm hitting myself in the head over not checking what SD types it had..)20:14
krfkeithon another note, is it true there is a PSX emulator for maemo?20:14
Macerbut yeah, just took some getting used to20:14
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VDVsxOMG, when they will stop: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/08/05/apples-new-low-censoring-a-dictionary/20:35
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javispedroVDVsx, never, cause it seems not to affect apple sales at all20:36
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RST38hVDVsx: Apple users *love* being screwed20:37
RST38hit tickles them in the right places20:37
javispedro(and, if one day sales go down, I'm sure the Steveness himself will do a keynote presenting himself as the saviour of the mobile application ecosystem)20:37
VDVsxjavispedro, true, only make some people really piss off (developers), not good thought20:38
RST38hDevelopers are insignificant, and Apple developers love being screwed too20:38
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VDVsxRST38h, heheh20:40
javispedroI'm sure there's still someone at Apple marketing that _believes_ they're doing this for the benefit of the consumer20:40
javispedrobtw if maemo wants to compete with Apple they should rename fremantle to "fremantel" (the newest typo). that word has the apple touch all over it.20:41
javispedroi'm sure it'll be a hit :D20:42
VDVsx:)20:43
RST38hAh there is always someone at marketing20:43
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RST38hAnd in the legal too20:43
RST38hEspecially in the legal20:44
lcukwhy bother trying to emulate them.  make your own path and if its worthy enough people will follow20:44
RST38hdoes not always happen like this :)20:45
RST38hwhatever path you follow, you are not apple20:45
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lcukbut empires change and battlelines are redrawn, what is hot now may not be hot in 5 years time20:46
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krfkeithI'm sorry, but Apple as a company is retarded in so many ways20:48
krfkeithlet's look at their marketing slogans20:48
krfkeith"Think Diffifernt" "The funnest iPod ever"20:48
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krfkeithI guess the poor grammar is reprsentative of their user base20:48
krfkeithheh heh heh20:49
StskeepsRST38h: http://linux.omap.com/pipermail/davinci-linux-open-source/2009-August/015134.html20:49
Stskeepsi'll never be able to say maemo sdk is evil anymore :P20:49
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lcuk krfkeith they don't deserve mocking, they have done ridiculously well with their product.  far better than i bet even steve jobs couldv imagined20:50
javispedroStskeeps, lol :)20:50
javispedroStskeeps, you must try developing for PalmOS :)20:51
krfkeithlcuk: have a five minute conversation with some random person on the street, then you'll know why20:51
krfkeithas Winston Churchill said, "The biggest argument against democracy is a five minutre conversation with the average voter"20:51
krfkeithbesides, people in the Apple store literally lie to get their stuff sold20:52
krfkeithnot that other salesmen don't20:52
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lcukcures famine, makes world peace tec etc20:52
krfkeithfor instance, some guy was telling this woman that Photoshop doesn't exist for Windows20:52
lcukevery salesperson from the dawn of time has done that20:52
krfkeithso I butted in and told the truth20:52
pupnik_:)20:52
krfkeithI know, but its so blatant, its funny20:53
lcukmy gf came back from the apple store one day after stumping them20:53
krfkeithin fact, Photoshop I believe is worse on OS X becaues it is tied to Carbon20:53
lcukshe went to get a bt keyboard20:53
lcukfor my nokia20:53
krfkeithheh20:53
lcukthey didnt think it would work20:53
lcukso she pulled it out of her bag and connected it20:53
lcuki was so proud :D20:53
krfkeithlol, I love going in there and playing dumb, before the iPhone OS 3 came out, and being like, how do you copy and paste?20:54
lcukthey know you are dumb tho20:54
krfkeithand then saying? Oh! you can't are you sure? because my WinMo thing from 3 years ago did20:54
lcukthing is, they get paid to be there, you dont20:54
RST38hStskeeps: I had a problem like that with IBM XLC compiler20:54
krfkeithyeah, but I like to think I have some integrity20:54
krfkeithwhich I was I would never be in sales20:54
krfkeithheh20:54
RST38hStskeep: Spent about an hour on the phone with IBM. Had to give my name, employer, and address 3 times.20:54
RST38hStskeeps: Has been eventually told that IBM will not support me because the product has been registered to our client20:55
lcuk:( rst20:55
krfkeithRST38h: IBM service is VERY annoying20:55
krfkeithI was on the phone with them for hours, must've gotten transfered 15 times20:55
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RST38hStskeeps: Told their "representative" to stick those DAT tapes up his well worn ass, hung up, switched to GCC20:56
wazd_Apple is unique company. It can be great and retarded same time :)20:56
RST38hkrfkeith: Ah, they also sent me about 3kg of junkmail a week20:56
lcukALL companies are the same20:56
javispedroI could not imagine a few years ago20:56
javispedrothat Gcc would be used nearly everywhere20:57
RST38hkrfkeith: Apparently, our corporate address got input into their database three times20:57
wazd_lcuk: most of them are tough mids20:57
RST38hjavis: funny, right?20:57
wazd_lcuk: Apple is super great and uber retarded :)20:57
javispedroit was a _really_ bad compiler in its first days20:57
krfkeithApple is so much worse than microsoft20:57
krfkeithit is no way a "great company"20:57
krfkeithever20:57
RST38hjavis: How long ago?20:57
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RST38hjavis: Version 2.x was already pretty decent20:58
krfkeithand frankly, remind me what is so revolutionary about the iPhone?20:58
RST38hjavis: Better than Boreland anyway20:58
krfkeithbesides the pretty icons20:58
RST38hkrfkeith: It is shiny. It works.20:58
wazd_krfkeith: first smaptphone that just work :)20:58
krfkeithwell, there you go20:58
javispedrogcc 2.x was the Be one I think. So that was usable indeed.20:58
RST38hkrfkeith: Which is more than can be said about many other phones20:58
krfkeithsee, I beg to differ, I had a WinMo PDA and a Treo and both worked without a htich20:59
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javispedrogcc 2.95.infinite I mean, I never knew where the rest of the 2.x series was20:59
wazd_krfkeith: majority of users will not agree with you :)20:59
RST38hkrfkeith: I have not seen a WinMo device that would work without a hitch20:59
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krfkeiththe problems with WinMo are grossly exaggerated20:59
krfkeithIMO20:59
RST38hkrfkeith: No major problems, just the sum of all annoyances21:00
krfkeithanything that doesn't let me install any application that I want is not smart21:00
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wazd_krfkeith: I've used WinMo PDA's for 5 or 6 years. No, the're not :)21:00
krfkeithwell what problems do you have?21:00
wazd_krfkeith: had21:00
krfkeithok, had21:00
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RST38hThat is a seriously inflammatory topic21:01
wazd_krfkeith: overall sloweness, rare hang ups, you should be uber wise to set up bt tethering :)21:02
RST38hDoes not kill apps, runs out of memory21:02
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RST38hWhen it turns off, all apps have to be reinstalled afterwards21:02
wazdRST38h: well, it kills apps with 3rd party software :)21:02
RST38hNo USB mass storage, have to use Sync21:02
krfkeiththat was a problem long ago21:02
RST38hWe are talking plain vanilla out of the box WinMo, ok?21:03
krfkeithok21:03
RST38hMay sometimes skip incoming calls, depending on the load21:03
wazdRST38h: oh, plain WinMo is not slow :)21:03
RST38hI did not say slow21:03
wazdRST38h: utill you'll start to install software :)21:03
RST38hI said annoying21:03
RST38hUI taken straight out of Win95 and castrated even more21:03
krfkeithhowever, consider this, lets say I need App XYZ and Apple doesn't alllow XYZ, regardless of problems, if WinMo can run XYZ, for me, that would make it a superior device21:04
RST38hSystem APIs taken from the same Win9521:04
krfkeithor rather, OS21:04
RST38hkrfkeith: nothing can make WinMo a superior device21:04
wazdkrfkeith: like I said, apple can ruin such a great hardware like an iPhone with it's retarded software policy21:04
RST38hkrfkeith: WinMo is a single but sufficient reason keeping me from buying HTC hardware21:05
krfkeithhardware wise, there isn't much special about the iPhone, software-wise, I don't think so either21:05
RST38hWell, 3GS is using Cortex CPU21:05
krfkeithRST38h: WinMo 6 isn't bad at all21:05
RST38hSo, hardware wise it is a bit of a step forward21:05
krfkeithnot a quatum leap by any means21:05
wazdkrfkeith: first device with wise using of new technology21:05
RST38hkrfkeith: However you sugar the toad, it is still a toad, not gonna eat it21:06
wazdkrfkeith: To my mind it's great21:06
krfkeithto my mind, its nothing but pretty icons21:06
krfkeithand gimmicks21:06
wazdkrfkeith: good for you :)21:06
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krfkeithmultitasking for the win21:07
wazdThe fact is that pretty icons and gimmicks make solid user experience21:07
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krfkeithok, but, pretty icons doesn't make a good OS21:07
wazdsolid user experience makes good OS21:08
wazdthats the only point of OS21:08
krfkeithno, that makes a good GUI21:08
krfkeithyou can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig21:08
* RST38h is tired of people claiming that iPhone has no multitasking21:08
krfkeithif the Mac OS X GUI were somehow ported to DOS 1.0, would that make it a good OS21:08
krfkeithRST38h: notifications don't count21:09
wazdkrfkeith: iPhone does mt21:09
RST38hThere is Unix like OS underneath21:09
krfkeithI understand that21:09
wazdkrfkeith: full featured with jailbreak, small without21:09
Corsacjust not user multitasking :)21:09
RST38hIt multitasks just fine21:09
krfkeithexactly21:09
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krfkeithhaving the capability and making use of it are two different things21:10
RST38hWhy don't you say "iPhone UI does not let you run more than one user app at once"21:10
krfkeithfine21:10
krfkeithcall it what you want21:10
Corsacbecause nobody cares that the underlying os multitasks if it's not user-available21:10
wazdkrfkeith: ok, what else except multitasking is on WinMo side? :)21:10
Macerhm21:10
krfkeithexactly21:10
Corsacso yes, in the end it can't multitasks21:10
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krfkeithhmm, WinMo, well let's see, its an Open platform21:11
krfkeiththats a big one21:11
wazdIt can multitask with jailbreak21:11
Corsacyou can always pretend you didn't understand what people mean by that, but…21:11
wazdkrfkeith: since when it's open?))21:11
krfkeithopen source is not the same as open21:11
krfkeithby open I mean there is no approval system21:11
wazdkrfkeith: you mean you can install everything you want?21:11
krfkeithyes21:12
krfkeithand don't tell me about jailbreak21:12
krfkeiththat doesn't make it open21:12
krfkeithI shouldn't have to jump through hoops to use my device how I want it21:12
wazdkrfkeith: iPhone has an App Store - you don't need to search for latest versions of the software21:12
Corsacbeing able to install anything might be problematic too :)21:12
wazdkrfkeith: iPhone has a Jailbreak - with it you can use your device absolutely like you want21:13
krfkeithBen Franklin: Those who would trade freedom for security [ease of use] deserve neither21:13
krfkeithwazd: did you not see what I said?21:13
krfkeithI can mod my PSP, and install what I want, but the fact of the matter is that the restrictions shouldn't be there in the first place21:14
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wazdkrfkeith: Windows doesn't have the restrictions. And we have what we have now21:14
krfkeiththe iPhone/Touch iis the quintecensial example of closed system21:14
wazdkrfkeith: it's closed but it works for 90% of users21:15
wazdkrfkeith: and it does it well21:15
krfkeithit would probably work for me, but, I cannot give money to such a ridiculous company21:15
krfkeiththat freaking censors a dictionary21:15
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krfkeithpragmatically, it doesn't matter, but its the principal21:16
wazdkrfkeith: you can give your money to the company that sells same os for 7 years? :)21:16
krfkeithlikewise, instead of using OO.o, I could just pirate Office, but I'm not going to21:16
wazdor even 1121:16
krfkeithwazd: if the OS works well for me, then yes, I will21:16
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krfkeithby that standard, I shouldn't use UNIX becauses its over 40 years old21:16
lcukactually, im pretty sure dictionaries censor their posting and find the least offensive variation when choosing stuff21:17
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wazdkrfkeith: I'm not familiar ith it but isn't UNIX is just a core?21:17
krfkeithUNIX is an operating system21:17
krfkeithby core do you mean kernel?21:17
lcukgo read urban dictionary for some common things - and then try to find same things in a regular one21:18
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krfkeithlcuk: your argument is flawed, regular dictionaries do have the colloquial definitions of "ass" "shit" and "fuck"21:19
krfkeithetc.21:19
wazdkrfkeith: anyway, some people will giv their money to the company that blocks dictionary, you'll give your money to the company that sells same os abomination for a decade, and I will just buy hardware and use free os :D21:19
krfkeithwazd: do you work for Apple?21:20
krfkeithWindows being bad is so blown out of proportion21:20
krfkeithWindows NT is actually a very well written OS21:20
wazdkrfkeith: I mean WinMo ofcourse21:20
krfkeithoh21:20
krfkeithonce again, its still based on the CE kernel, but it has been updated21:20
krfkeithhave you even used WinMo 6? Do you really think its fair to compare an OS from 2003 to one from today?21:21
krfkeithor whatever the last release of WinMo you used21:21
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wazdkrfkeith: I've used PPC 2000 and win mo 621:22
wazdkrfkeith: and all in between21:22
florianre21:22
lcukthis is apparantly a censored dictionary for symbian21:22
lcukhttp://asia.cnet.com/downloads/handheld/swinfo/0,39001949,50002495r-39609620s,00.htm21:22
wazdkrfkeith: Changes were unsignificant21:22
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krfkeithlcuk: just because someone else does it doesn't mean its right or accpetable21:23
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lcuki recall the dictionaries at school were censored too21:24
lcuki think they called it "abridged" back then21:24
lcukbut half the swear words i looked for i couldnt find21:24
wazdlcuk: you spent your youth in the Apple's school, haha :D21:24
lcuklol21:24
krfkeiththat isn't Apples to Apples21:25
lcukkrfkeith, at the end of the day, its their device - it doesnt actually matter21:25
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krfkeithcensoring a dictionary for children or teenagers21:25
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lcukcensoring a product that kids can buy21:25
lcukits not adult rated21:25
lcuki agree with it21:25
krfkeithlcuk: by Comparison, China is the Chinese government's country, they can do what they want21:25
lcukand they do21:26
krfkeithdoes that make it right?21:26
lcukdoesnt make it wrong either - if i could be arsed to protest about lacking the words fuck and shit and ass i would21:26
lcukbut its nothingness in the grand scheme of things21:26
krfkeithif this was the only thing, I wouldn't care21:27
krfkeithbut it isn't21:27
lcukso21:27
lcukits apples problem21:27
lcukgo and bitch at them about it21:27
lcukthis is a nokia chan21:28
lcukwe can swear21:28
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lcukunless you buy dictionary for symbian lol21:28
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* RST38h yawns widely21:35
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* lcuk throws things into RST38h's gob21:44
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RST38hmore bacon?21:49
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lcukRST38h, lemon cheese cake22:10
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RST38hlcuk: yummy22:18
RST38h(at least if it is the same thing I think it is)22:19
lcuktis actually22:19
lcuktracy also makes lemon n lime drizzle cake22:19
* lcuk likes it when tracy bakes stuff :)22:19
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LinuxCodelcuk, when do I come to visit ?22:21
lcukwhen you can make better cakes than tracy lol22:21
LinuxCodedont challenge me, you might be surprised22:22
LinuxCodehehe22:22
lcukhah22:22
LinuxCodeohh doh, I just realized something22:22
lcukbring cake (and bacon) to the summit22:22
LinuxCodeI was going to buy a good coffee liqueur in Germany ;-|22:22
LinuxCodeI forgot22:22
LinuxCodemeh22:22
* LinuxCode wants to make Tiramisu with the family recipe22:23
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LinuxCodefrom the age of 13, that ended up being my birthday cake lol22:23
lcukyou have made this before now?22:25
LinuxCodeI know how it is made22:27
LinuxCodeI always watched my dad22:27
LinuxCodeit was the highlight of my day/evening, when I knew he was going to make one22:28
LinuxCodehaha22:28
lcuk:D always the best way to learn22:28
LinuxCodeindeed22:28
LinuxCodesadly, some recipes are lost forever now22:28
LinuxCode;-|22:28
LinuxCodebut hey, that's life22:29
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lcukyeah22:29
lcukyou have them tucked away up there tho :)22:29
lcukare you still using your tablet22:30
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lcukok, completely offtopic and random, i just found this22:32
lcukhttp://www.hornoxe.com/farbige-rauchringe/22:32
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Luddekheh cool22:32
lcuksmoke ring fights!22:33
lcukwho wouldv thought the star trek explosion designers had it right!22:33
RST38h"The $100,000 tool bag plunged toward Earth and burned up as it re-entered the atmosphere"22:35
RST38hThat is 250 NITs22:35
LuddekRST38h didn't that happend long ago or is it another toolbox?22:35
lcukwasnt that the lady who lost her handbag22:35
lcukhttp://serve.me.nus.edu.sg/limtt/22:38
RST38hSame toolbox, entering atmosphere above atlantic right now22:38
lcuk(i believe this is the original source of the fluid dynamics vid i just posted22:38
RST38hIn vaguely related news, Apple has submitted a patent application for technologies which would detect device-abuse by consumers. The intent presumably being to aid in determining the validity of warranty claims.22:38
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Stskeepshah22:43
Stskeepsthis is already done in things like SMART though?22:43
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Stskeepsscary, people find a way to add a usb port to q5 by ripping out bluetooth chip22:47
Stskeepshw hack guys are really going at it :P22:47
Stskeepsalso the stylus on a q5 is also an antenna or something..22:48
Stskeeps:P22:48
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k-shttp://www.vimeo.com/598370623:43
k-snow running on n81023:43
Stskeepsnot bad23:45
k-s:-)23:47
k-sruns good23:47
woglindehgaha the girl is nice23:47
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woglindehm23:50
woglindethe kinetic stuff isnt perfect23:50
woglindeor the video suckz23:50
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