IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-07-24

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lbtwazd: ping00:31
wazdlbt: pong :)00:31
lbthey...00:31
lbtdid you find the icons for Sts' presentation?00:32
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* RST38h yawns widely00:33
wazdlbt: for what presentation?00:33
RST38hwazd: got the monitor? =)00:33
lbtCPH ...00:33
lbta few weeks ago00:34
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wazdRST38h: not yet, i have to finish website to get money/monitor :)00:34
wazdRST38h: http://www.gazeta.ru/business/2009/07/23/3226152.shtml00:34
lbthis site is down so I can't link00:34
RST38hwazd: "Whatever these guys try to build, they end up with a concentration camp" =)00:34
wazdlbt: they are from one of free icon sets I guess00:35
wazdlbt: oxygen or something00:35
lbtyes, I wondered if you knew which one and had a url00:35
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lcuklbt, i have been cherry picking things from here: http://nuovext.pwsp.net/00:36
wazdlbt: http://www.oxygen-icons.org/00:37
lcukwazd, when i tried looking for oxygen i couldnt find a proper download for them00:37
RST38hlcuk: Tried Wiki already?00:38
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lcukwazd, on that page, where are the icons00:38
lcukand rst, which wiki...00:38
wazdlcuk: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Oxygen+Icons?content=7418400:38
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wazdlcuk: 1st google result on "oxygen icons download@ :D00:39
lbtthis is great -ta00:39
RST38hwazd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Icons00:39
RST38hSorry00:39
RST38hlcuk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Icons00:39
RST38hlcuk: THE Wiki :)00:39
wazdRST38h: btw, I had a funny situation with "brand loyality" yesterday :)00:40
RST38hwazd: Mistook LG for an HP? ;)00:40
wazdRST38h: me and my friend were talking bout netbooks, and he was trying to prove me that MSI Wind is the best netbook out there, solid, well-made and so on00:41
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wazdRST38h: also dirty cheap00:41
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wazdRST38h: And when he brought it out of it's bag - suddenly something fell off the screen hinge :)00:42
wazdRST38h: without any reason :)00:43
lcukballast00:44
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lcukall good designs include extra ballast00:44
lcukits like shipping devices with "spare screws"00:44
RST38hwazd: Weird, it does look sturdy enough to me00:45
wazdRST38h: well, I was surprised too :)00:45
RST38hwazd: Although I would not buy ASUS or MSI or any other .TW noname00:45
RST38hwazd: Too painful experience with ASUS00:45
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lbtwhy in 2009 is it easier to open a terminal and type wget than to drag'n'drop a bloody graphic from firefox to Open office00:50
lbtstupid linux00:50
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derfHah, I do that all the time.00:51
derfOpen a terminal and type wget, I mean.00:51
derfI figured I was just old.00:51
lbtno, linux just sucks00:52
derfReally, it's the thought have having to use that horrendous file dialog.00:52
derfs/have/of00:52
RST38hHmmm...My battery now completely discharges in three days00:52
lbtI just want to drag an icon from one app to another... no dialogue needed .... <sigh>00:52
RST38hNothing special is running, OMWeather set to 2hr update period, Modest set to 1hr update period00:52
lbtRST38h: Mine lasts 2 if I'm lucky00:53
RST38hlbt: Weird...00:53
derflbt: I never get the inclination to drag anything, really.00:53
lbtI upset the battery gods00:53
derfThe less I touch the mouse, the better.00:53
RST38hI did notice 5-6 copies of browserd hanging around for no good reason00:53
RST38h+ 2 more legitimate copies00:53
lbtderf: I'm browsing icons for a presentation...00:53
ShadowJKopenoffice only very recently managed to get copy/paste working... between itself. Between one openoffice spreadsheet to the exact same spreadsheet in the same program. I imagine it'll take awhile before it works across two openoffice programs, let alone firefox :-)00:53
RST38hNot worth complaining to Maemo people of course, but still00:53
ShadowJK(atleast this is my experience with it)00:54
RST38hShadowJK: FireFox has got some copy/paste problems on its own on Unix00:54
derfJust getting something out of the URL bar used to be a major challenge.00:55
ShadowJKSometimes it puts things in the one clipboard and other times it puts things in the other clipboard.. and then you don't know which clipboard the app you're trying to paste into takes stuff from :)00:55
lbtsounds like emacs00:55
wazdhttp://mytechnews.info/b/2009/07/screenshots-from-the-garmin-asus-nuvifone-g60-part-1.html00:55
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wazdwhy didn't they make pixel-art icons :(00:56
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Khertan_2wazd: it s a palm os ?00:57
Khertan_2:)00:57
RST38hwazd: Those are Garmin icons. Blame Garmin00:57
Khertan_2why didn't they make pixel-art icons :( < if you are good enough to do icon ... maybe you can help me ?00:57
Khertan_2to reskin mOrganize :)00:58
wazdKhertan_2: well, I can try at least :)00:58
Khertan_2oh http://tabletui.wordpress.com/ <-- this is your blog ?00:59
Khertan_2so you ll be successfully do it :)00:59
wazdKhertan_2: yep, that's mine01:00
Khertan_2you do nice ui ...01:00
Khertan_2i ll send you a alpha version of mOrganize, so you ll be able to look at what i try to achieve01:01
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Khertan_2at the moment it s working ...01:01
Khertan_2it s horrible01:01
Khertan_2but it s working :)01:01
Khertan_2but it s require some things to be finished :)01:02
Khertan_2like the backgroud sync launch and the prefs01:02
Khertan_2http://picasaweb.google.fr/khertan/MOrganize01:02
Khertan_2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb8Eh9OWfig <<< and the first try :)01:03
RST38h<sleep>01:03
Khertan_2so it ll be time to go to sleep for me too01:04
Khertan_2:)01:04
Khertan_2bye ... see you later01:05
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Khertan_2wazd: if you want to contact me : khertan@khertan.net01:06
Khertan_2wazd: and if you are interested01:06
wazdKhertan_2: I'll see what i can do :)01:06
Khertan_2wazd: thanks01:06
Khertan_2the icons are horrible :)01:06
wazdKhertan_2: oh, htey are not that bad :)01:07
Khertan_2individually there are nice01:07
Khertan_2but ... this isn't the same style01:07
Khertan_2and doesn't really well choosen for the feature ...01:07
Khertan_2the 2, 3, 4 and 5th icons are for creating new entries01:08
Khertan_22: an event01:08
Khertan_23: a todo01:08
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Khertan_24: a text note01:08
Khertan_25 : a draw note01:08
Khertan_2:)01:08
Khertan_2so ... i really need to go to sleep01:08
Khertan_2see you later ...01:09
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wazdKhertan_2: see ya01:12
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Stskeepsmoo04:10
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* lcuk waves @ Stskeeps 04:11
lcukyou at debconf?04:11
Stskeepshotel in caceres04:12
Stskeepsnot at the venue residence04:13
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Stskeepsmet up with zenvoid and we travelled here04:14
lcukStskeeps cool tho, you there all week then04:14
Stskeepsleaving 31st in the morningg04:14
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lcukcool, drink lots of beers and come away with a wicked simple deb based plan :D04:15
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Stskeepsi'll prolly be on cold drinks but alcohol+heat won't be good04:16
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lcukStskeeps yeah, sunshine turns us to dust04:18
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johnxm00?06:49
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RST38hheya johnx08:04
johnxyo08:05
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vasily_pupkinGood time of day08:47
vasily_pupkinanybody have NAT working on n810?08:47
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slonopotamus_what do you mean by 'nat on n810'?08:48
slonopotamus_you're making router of it?08:49
vasily_pupkinconnection tracking support in kernel08:49
vasily_pupkinfor ettercap fun by real :)08:49
slonopotamus_'Ettercap is a suite for man in the middle attacks on LAN.'08:50
slonopotamus_you attached ethernet card to your n810?08:51
vasily_pupkini have wifi card on my n810 (!!11)08:51
vasily_pupkin:(08:51
vasily_pupkin:]08:51
slonopotamus_so basically what you want is sniffing?08:52
vasily_pupkini want perform own modifications of struct sk_buff in future08:52
slonopotamus_:/ that doesn't tell me anything08:53
vasily_pupkinproblems with NAT simply that i meet just now08:53
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chxoh09:14
chxthat's actually a good question09:14
chxcan you share a Net connection with the N810?09:14
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slonopotamus...09:15
slonopotamuschx, you want to turn it into router too?09:15
chxyes. never thought of it before but it's a great idea!09:16
chxwhy not? it runs a standard Linux kernel, I bet it runs iptables too09:16
vasily_pupkinbheh09:16
vasily_pupkinstandard..09:16
vasily_pupkina piece of shit!09:17
chx?09:17
vasily_pupkinfucked umac blobs make it realy unusable09:17
RST38hit is pretty usable for me09:19
RST38hmaybe not as a router, but I have got dlink for that09:19
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danielwilmsping Jaffa09:43
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JaffaMorning, all11:03
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LantiziaHey last I heard the newest handset was the N810WiMax... anything new on the horizon?11:14
LantiziaGoogle came up trumps for me11:14
* LinuxCode are all waiting patiently for Nokia to get a move on11:14
Lantiziaa move on to what?11:15
LinuxCodea device like the N810 with rumoured faster chip, more memory and most importantly 3g/umts11:15
Lantiziaew, nastly - I didn't think Nokia were going to bother making the Nxxx range phones.11:16
LinuxCodewhy is that nasty ?11:16
LinuxCodeit would be the natural progression11:16
woglindeits modem only11:16
LinuxCodewoglinde, ?11:16
LantiziaBecause I want a PDA, not a PDA phone... I have a nokia phone already11:16
LinuxCodeyou serious ?11:16
woglinde3g/utms11:16
LantiziaI just want WiMax so I'm ready11:16
myrttiit's not a phone11:17
woglindeno natural voice function11:17
LinuxCodewoglinde, if thats true, I aint buying one11:17
myrttiit's got 3G for modem/data connection11:17
woglindelinuxcode it is11:17
Lantiziamyrtti,  yeah like they all did?11:17
LinuxCodegot a press release ?11:17
Stskeepsmorning11:17
LinuxCodemorning mate11:17
woglindehi stskeep11:17
woglindeI think stskeep has seen a prototype11:17
LinuxCodewhats the point, to have a 3g modem, when I have to carry my phone around anyway11:17
Stskeepswoglinde: devel unit11:18
LantiziaI quite like the idea of not encumbering the device with older 2G/3G technologies11:18
LinuxCodeand the wireless signal for 3g will eat up more battery11:18
myrttiLantizia: none of the previous ones have had modems in them11:18
LantiziaWiFi/Bluetooth/4G is fine11:18
woglindestskeep okay11:18
Lantiziamyrtti, thought they could connect to nokia phones over bluetooth tho to get 3g?11:18
LinuxCodeLantizia, whats 4g about wimax please ?11:19
LinuxCodelol11:19
LantiziaLinuxCode, I don't make the phrasing11:19
LinuxCodenobody has wimax widely available11:19
woglindeLantizia yes you can do it11:19
myrttiLantizia: connect *TO* a phone (be it Nokia or not) with bluetooth, but they didn't have the modem inbuilt11:19
Lantiziamyrtti, whats the difference?11:19
Jaffawoglinde: Why do you say it's modem only?11:20
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Lantiziaare we talking about a N810 + faster chipset + SIM card reader?11:20
JaffaLinuxCode: all signs point to it having some voice capability11:20
LinuxCodeJaffa, I bloody hope so mate11:20
* Stskeeps waves from DebCnf11:20
LinuxCodeI will be pretty upset if not11:20
Stskeeps+11:20
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Stskeepso11:20
LinuxCodeand spend my money on another product11:20
myrttibleepbleep11:20
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woglindeLantizia and powervr graphics11:21
myrttiI need more moisturiser11:21
pupnikhmm.  i got the reboot loop.  after running kismet for 18 hours11:21
JaffaLantizia: With accelerometers, 32GB of onboard storage, 3D acceleration h/w, Clutter-based UI, ...11:21
LantiziaOK can someone clarify here...11:21
Jaffa~rx-5111:21
Lantizia<myrtti> it's got 3G for modem/data connection11:21
infoboti heard rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html11:21
pupniki also moved /usr/share to /media/mmc1 and symlinked it, which used to work fine iirc11:21
Lantiziawhat on earth does that mean11:21
Lantiziathat it IS a phone or not?11:21
woglindeits not a phone11:21
JaffaLantizia: The only thing Nokia have *announced* is that it'll have HSPA data11:21
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myrttiLantizia: the modem for data is a known fact, phone (speech) abilities are matter of speculation11:22
LinuxCodehsdpa ?11:22
JaffaHowever, there are lots of references to GSM calls, text messages, etc. are in the SDK - so it's guesswork11:22
JaffaLinuxCode: High Speed Packet Access.11:22
LantiziaLinuxCode, brit?11:22
JaffaLinuxCode: The stuff which gives you 7.2Mbps on the go11:22
LinuxCodeLantizia, yes why ?11:22
LantiziaLinuxCode, you know of HSDPA :D11:23
Lantiziasee I don't mind the idea of a N810 WiMax with my E51 that has HSDPA... but you can't get the WiMax model in the UK11:24
Lantiziaso I'm waiting for the next WiMax offering11:24
LantiziaFreedom4 are launching new WiMax areas by the end of the year in britain in about 20 different cities11:24
JaffaLantizia: I doubt it'll have WiMAX11:24
Lantiziahow come?11:25
LinuxCodeid still rather have a technology i can use everywhere11:25
JaffaLantizia: Cos Nokia got burned with the N810WE11:25
Lantiziahow?11:25
LantiziaI'm not an american so I don't know whats going on over there11:26
derfEveryone is sleeping here because it's night-time.11:27
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RST38hderf: 12:33am here11:31
lbtmorning all11:31
RST38hwhat sleep time?11:31
derfWell, it's 4:33 AM here, and as you can see, I'm not asleep either.11:33
RST38hderf: I think we have figured out already that you are unamerican :)11:33
derfOh yeah, good point.11:33
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Stskeepsneat, 'Differentiation' mentioned in a HP talk11:39
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RST38hSts: Does it mean 'Android'?11:40
pupnikI hope next nokia tablet gets some retail presence ... finally11:40
StsN810rst, not sure.. watching a talk on HP and Debian11:40
StsN810'add value that customers will pay for'11:41
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RST38hSts: Linux? Steve Ballmer will kill HP CEO with a chair.11:48
RST38hpupnik: Won't be a tablet, will be a phone11:48
RST38hWhether Nokia decides to hype it the same way it did with N95 and 5800 is a good question though...11:49
woglindestsn810 hp and debian is nothing new11:49
StsN810rst, servers11:50
woglinderst?????11:50
RST38hwoglinde: ?11:50
woglindehp always had some organizational unit which cares about linux11:50
woglindebruce perence was/is hp emplyoee11:51
RST38hThat is a good indication of them being not serious11:51
woglinde*g*11:51
woglindeor is you problem general with HP?11:52
RST38hNot really11:54
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RST38hI just think that as soon as they indicate even a slight desire to move away from Windows, even with one leg only, they are up to an unpleasant talk with MS11:54
suihkulokkiHP makes lots of cash with linux servers, so they do care a lot that linux works well on them11:54
suihkulokkithey also bet for linux on itanic11:55
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* rkirti recalls HP putting quite some fight to optimize unix and get HP-ux , wonders if they have similar plans for linux11:55
suihkulokkiand, their provide linux drivers for _all_ of their printers via hplip project11:56
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suihkulokkiwhich makes buying a linux-compatible printer a easy task :)11:56
* RST38h remembers HPUX all right, used to be spelled as HPukes11:57
woglinderst hp even has openvms11:57
RST38hAnyways, it worked on their own workstation hardware, so it is kinda beyond the point11:57
woglindesuihkulokki in the last year hp made scanning and faxing working11:58
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RST38hwoglinde: HP has Compaq and Compaq has DEC and DEC has OpenVMS :)11:58
woglinderst right11:58
suihkulokkiwoglinde: what is amusing, is that the installing/using hplip experience is sooo much smoother than their windows driver experience12:00
StsN810windows printer drivers are nightmares often12:00
woglindesuihkulokki depends12:00
StsN810especially color/ink printers12:00
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woglindesuihkulokki problem was hp has to many different installers12:00
RST38hSts: Not if they are done properly12:01
woglindehad12:01
woglindelaser printers worked mostly niced12:01
RST38hSts: But of course, every manufacturer is trying to give you a "solution" now, not just a driver12:01
woglindeand the other problem was the usless stuff which the normal cds goes to install12:01
RST38hSts: 50+MB of some buggy Windows apps written by godknows whom12:01
woglindeif you choosed only driver it only last 5 minutes then half hour12:02
pupnikreally the RX-51 needs to deliver to consumers who don't give a damn about linux12:03
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pupnikimo.  it has to deliver the internet-connectivity usefulness.  media playback, browsing, voice/video chat, email needs to be good.12:04
LinuxCodepupnik, and the apps they can get on top, must be free and good too12:06
LinuxCodelets face it, the apps in maemo leave a lot to be desired12:06
pupnikmhm12:06
LinuxCodein terms of choice12:06
pupniklike for e.g. replacing the sketch app with a really kickass sketch app12:06
pupnikthink mypaint could do it?12:07
LinuxCodeor having a shopping cart app that doesnt crash12:07
LinuxCode;-p12:07
LinuxCodesimple things, make people like their device more12:07
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LantiziaJaffa said that Nokia got burned with the N810 Wimax... what did he mean by that?  anyone know?12:08
LinuxCodethe app  have seen as the most maintained thing on maemo os OMwaeather12:08
LinuxCodeLantizia, means, probably not mnay people bought it as there isnt wimax everywhere12:08
Lantizia-yet-12:08
LinuxCodeLantizia, if you really believe that wimax will be in the UK in 5 years time, available everywhere, you are wrong sir12:09
LinuxCodewe will see 4g before we see wimax12:09
Lantiziano I think it'll be here sooner12:09
pupnikperhaps wimax needs  more coverage to sell more devices - chicken/egg problem12:09
LantiziaWiMax is 4G12:09
woglindebye till later12:09
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LinuxCodepupnik, exactly12:09
JaffaLantizia: Their main partner for it (in the US), Sprint didn't push it. It wasn't ready for consumers. Sprint dithered.12:09
LinuxCodeLantizia, there are many other technologies which allow backwards compatibility with 3g/2g12:09
LinuxCodeand the EUropean mobile operators will favour those12:10
Lantiziadon't care about 2g/3g... stupid technologies that arn't IP based and need a silly SIM card12:10
LantiziaWiMax is all I care about12:10
LinuxCodeLantizia, fine, I send the 10 billion bill your way then12:10
LinuxCodelol12:10
Lantiziaok what other debian-based PDA's do people know about?  (that arn't just hacks of other windows ones :P)12:12
JaffaLantizia: The TouchBook and the Pandora12:14
Lantiziak I think I found the touchbook (alwaysinnovating.com right?) any link for pandora... many things are called that12:15
pupnikopenpandora.org12:15
Lantiziao_O12:15
Lantiziasee I won't touch andriod because its so locked down12:15
pupnik<- #242112:15
suihkulokkiWiMax is not 4g, it is wireless broadband (to compete with ADSL etc)12:15
pupniki missed my chance for a dev unit too.12:16
JaffaLantizia: TouchBook isn't shipping yet (AFAIK). Pandora's been a long tail of enthusiasts promising the undeliverable.12:16
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Jaffas/tail/tale/12:16
infobotJaffa meant: Lantizia: TouchBook isn't shipping yet (AFAIK). Pandora's been a long tale of enthusiasts promising the undeliverable.12:16
pupnik'promising the undeliverable'?12:18
suihkulokkiLantizia: wimax is also not "generic" - every wimax operator works on different frequencies, and thus wimax devices are locked for the specific operator12:18
pupnikthe boards and cases are finalized.12:18
pupnikit has been a long wait though12:19
LantiziaTexas instrument processors bother me :S12:19
pupnikwhy Lantizia ?12:20
Lantiziawhy what?12:20
Lantiziaoh!12:20
Lantiziasorry at work, getting very distracted hehe12:20
pupniknp12:20
Lantiziamy first pda was the jornada 928... and the OMAP processor on that sucked balls12:21
pupniki've heard some qualified criticism of the omap2420 dsp (something about memory not protected)12:21
pupnikwell xscale at that time was much higher clocked12:21
florianpupnik: clocks don't count... compare a 600MHz Xscale to a 600MHz OMAP today...12:23
Jaffapupnik: And they've made various promises which were unrealistic and so undeliverable. The current state was to be expected if they stuck at it; but their timescales were ridiculously (and stupidly) optimistic.12:23
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Lantiziafuck it I'm just gonna buy a N810 and use the HSDPA from the E5112:26
JaffaLantizia: At some point this year, the HSPA-touting device is going to launch12:28
Jaffa(or Nokia are going to lose half the community)12:28
Lantiziawell I rather like my E51 as a phone that looks like a phone being a phone12:28
LantiziaI was someone who wanted everything combined but now I like the idea of seperate12:28
pupnikcarrying a tablet you love, carries the burden of not losing/dropping it.  A cheap phone is less painful to lose/break.12:29
Lantiziaexactly and when I'm on a night out I don't need a full PDA12:29
pupniksame here12:29
florianLantizia: Same here :-) A useful internet device is too big to fit in a pcoket12:29
Lantiziaalthough the E51 isn't exactly cheap either12:29
RST38hThere are cell phone wristwatches and they are relatively cheap12:30
RST38hMade of metal too12:30
LantiziaRST38h, with HSDPA so you can use it as a bluetooth modem? :D12:30
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RST38hDunno about 3G but it has got EGPRS12:31
RST38hLet us check12:32
LantiziaYou Fail :P12:32
RST38hMe? No. We still do not have 3G here so who cares.12:32
Lantizialol12:32
Lantiziafor me a PDA is good for 3 things... music (got my mp3/ogg samsung stick so thats fine)... organisation (my e51 can do that)... and full blown internet use... which only a PDA can fulfil12:33
RST38hhttp://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/4937062/Wrist_Watch_Phone_W600_GSM_Mobile_Phone.html12:33
Lantiziano net access quicker than 3mbps, stuff it :D12:33
RST38hNo 3g12:33
pupniksadasd12:35
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pupnikhttp://highlightcam.com/   interesting service for home surveillance12:39
RST38hDon't most cameras do this automatically?12:39
pupniksome do12:40
pupnikmaybe you're right re: most12:40
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lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgZkm1xWPE :)15:46
* GeneralAntilles pokes lcuk with a stick.15:47
lcukintercontinental stick!15:47
lcuklongstick is loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong15:47
lcukwhy arent you working gan15:47
lcuk"fecal spillage in teen angst.   again."15:48
GeneralAntillesLeaving in 3 minutes.15:48
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lcukwhat are you reading at the mo then15:48
lcukor have you stopped reading since you went back there15:49
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woglindehe lcuk15:49
woglindehm holidays make irc silent15:49
lcukirc is always silent15:49
woglindehm15:49
woglindein the older times .....15:50
GeneralAntillesFinishing up a number of series that were incomplete last time I was reading regularly.15:50
GeneralAntillesJohn Scalzi's Last Colony right now.15:50
woglindehm I am reading rcp book15:50
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lcukGeneralAntilles, scifi?15:50
GeneralAntillesYeah, planning a return to real literature once the summer ends.15:51
GeneralAntillesBut enjoying the space opera action shit for the time being.15:51
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lcukniven tells good stories :)15:51
GeneralAntillesTime's up.15:51
GeneralAntillesSee yah.15:51
lcukcya later gan15:51
GeneralAntillesNiven irritates me for some reason.15:51
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woglindebye gan15:54
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woglindehi fiferboy15:54
fiferboywoglinde, hi15:55
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fiferboyAh, bagel and muffin day15:55
woglindewe had pizza15:55
woglindebecause of the rain15:55
fiferboyNice!15:55
woglindenobody wants to go outside15:55
woglindebut lastet 1 1/2 hour to wen here15:56
woglindewent15:56
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Stskeepshehe, maemo.org on debconf tshirts16:05
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JaffaStskeeps: cool16:08
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lcukwhat the fcsk http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/4443/1213946563923hd5.jpg16:50
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JamieBennettlcuk :)16:51
lcukhiya jb, you know what it is then..16:52
JamieBennettNo idea what so ever16:52
qwerty12_N810That looks like some pedo teletubby16:52
JamieBennettThose crazy Japanese :)16:53
woglindehm is lcuk eating bacon again?16:53
lcukno bacon today16:53
lcukperhaps thats it16:53
lcuki actually know what it is, but as a work of art that picture defies belief16:54
lcukinfact, the movie its from isnt much better16:54
woglindeits unsharp16:54
woglindeso its amateruisch16:54
woglindehm I need some water16:55
lcukits a still from a movie - that explains the sharpnes16:55
lcuks16:55
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* aquatix actually saw parts of that movie a while ago16:55
aquatixweird stuff :)16:55
lcukaquatix, thats the problem im having16:55
lcuksince i cannot unsee parts of that movie, it helps to inflict bits on others :D16:56
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPsd5BhDNu416:56
lcukreal maemo thing now: ive got a query in an sqlite database16:57
lcukits on an indexed field16:57
woglindehehe the craziest film from japanes I know of16:58
woglindeis this http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0430651/16:58
lcukbut if i call it with " .... dateamend like '20090724%' it takes much longer than expected16:58
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lcukthe field is indexed16:58
fiferboylcuk: Don't 'likes' and wildcard searches take longer in general?16:58
woglindesqlite is not the fastest16:59
woglinderegexp slows down16:59
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lcukfiferboy, likes with wildcards in the left hand side, im used to16:59
lcukbut static left with + after should walk the index branch and leave me with N records matching the pattern16:59
lcukquickly16:59
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lcukwith * after16:59
fiferboylcuk, that's true...17:00
lcukwoglinde, its not regex tho, and sqlite seems quick with what ive got17:00
lcukthe db contains only about 20k records17:00
lcukits just this one query17:01
woglindehm17:01
woglindesorry cant help17:01
fiferboylcuk: You can try the regexp operator and see if it is faster...17:02
lcukhm, how would i do that then, im currently using:17:03
lcuk[[select datafilebody from liqpebble where dataclassname='sketch' and dateamend like '20140406%' order by id desc limit 1;]]17:03
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fiferboylcuk: try replacing "like '20090724%'" with REGEXP '20090724*'"17:04
fiferboyLeave the rest the same17:04
JaffaIf it's a regexp, .* is the equivalent of % in SQL17:04
lcukcool, will try17:04
fiferboylcuk: Let me know how it goes, I have never actually used it myself17:05
woglindeoh17:05
woglindecool17:05
woglindedidnt know of REGEXP statement17:05
fiferboywoglinde: I didn't either, I just found out about it :)17:05
woglindeneed to remind that if I have to face sql again17:05
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woglindein javascript * not really works as expected .+ works better17:06
lcukahhh17:07
lcuk"The REGEXP operator is a special syntax for the regexp() user function. No regexp() user function is defined by default and so use of the REGEXP operator will normally result in an error message. If a user-defined function named "regexp" is defined at run-time, that function will be called in order to implement the REGEXP operator."17:07
woglindeaeh???17:07
fiferboywoglinde: Thanks, I'm no expert in regex17:07
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woglindefiferboy hm not a king17:07
woglindebut I work hard to get my needed stuff working17:08
fiferboylcuk: That doesn't sound promising...17:08
woglindesubgroups are compilcated but good think too17:08
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woglinde If a user-defined function named "regexp" is defined at run-time, hm whats this means?17:09
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woglindeyou have to implement it yourself?17:09
fiferboySounds like you have to provide a function to sqlite for it to use for regex searches17:09
lcukyeah and my guess is that would avoid using the index completely17:10
woglindehm okay so you can wrap around the function your app-lang is using17:10
lcukso would have to do a full regexp comparison on every field in the data17:10
lcukwhich considering the query should run at least 35 times per screen..17:11
woglindehm17:11
woglindefor that I think we must look ab the sqlite source17:11
woglindeup17:11
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lcukyeah or remove the like lol17:11
lcukit was just something i wanted to try17:12
lcukive got an alternative solution but itsn ot as generic17:12
lcuk[[select datafilebody from liqpebble where datafilename ='day20131124.sketch' order by id desc limit 1;]]17:13
lcukbah! it works perfectly lol.   i wanted the calendar showing what the sketches i have worked on during that day in the calendar17:13
fiferboyThus ends the great sqlite regex experiment17:14
lcukflat on its face lol17:14
lcukat least i know the limits now17:14
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lcukfiferboy, when you list data in your bird database, do you have to create and initialize every item in the grid prior to showing it on screen17:16
lcukor does it build it up asynchronously17:16
lcukbut still builds up entire list17:17
woglindehm 201317:18
woglindesome years to go17:18
fiferboylcuk: I load the list in two passes (first filling in species information, then sighting information)17:18
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lcukwoglinde, the calendar for liqbase doesnt run all those queries instantly, it just builds up the query string ready17:18
lcukand im grabbing the sql from the very bottom item17:19
fiferboylcuk: If I fill the list asynchronously, it takes about 5 times longer to finish loading (although the interface is active during loading)17:19
lcukyeah it kinetically scrolls all the way into the future17:19
fiferboySo right now I freeze the interface with a "List Loading" message, load, and then free the interface17:19
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lcukfiferboy, for the lists im building, i do a single query which returns me the ID of the specific list item17:19
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lcukbut i do nothing with that ID until the list item cell itself is shown on screen17:20
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lcukso my grid can contain thousands of items really really quickly17:20
lcukand only at first render time does it do work17:20
fiferboylcuk: Do you look ahead while scrolling?17:20
lcukno need so far17:21
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fiferboyI have tried doing an on-demand load, but I run into problems when I want to, for example, add a sighting since I use the same data from the main interface to populate the options in the add dialog17:21
GAN800andre__, for serious, Nokia: Making It Complicated. ;)17:21
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fiferboyIf I haven't shown everything in the main list, not all the options will show up in the add dialog17:21
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lcukfiferboy, the grid item and views related to them all work on the key field (id in this case) and are simply refreshed after returning from an edit screen17:25
fiferboylcuk: To refresh the field you do a subsequent query with the ID that was returned in the first query?17:25
lcukyeah17:25
fiferboyI have my program setup so I only have to do the main query one time (until I switch lists) no matter how much adding, subtracting, searching I do17:26
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lcukthats impractical for me lol, the database contains so many records17:27
fiferboyI'm not sure if that is the best way, but it runs well enough on the tablet for now17:27
lcukand im expecting sync, so new records can be added at any time17:27
fiferboylcuk: My database has a lot of records, but each list is static inasmuchas no further species get added or removed, only sightings17:28
lcukmy database is over 100mb already!17:28
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coldboot|consolequit17:29
coldboot|consoleexit17:29
fiferboylcuk: Ah.  I thought my 4.5 MB database was big :)17:29
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lcukyeah, you have a stable working set, im used to databases with millions of records17:29
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lcukand needing simple result sets17:29
lcukfiferboy ;)17:29
fiferboyWell, my species table is set, but the sightings table can expand as much as I want it17:29
fiferboyI just haven't seen that many birds yet :)17:29
lcukheh17:30
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lcukyou could start inserting sightings from the many bird watching places on the net17:30
lcuk"saw a nice pair, wearing red bikinis" :D17:30
fiferboylcuk: I also have an issue that I have to load certain tables either on install or first run to populate the species table, locations table, etc17:31
lcukmy database contains a version table, and this is checked on opening17:31
lcuki have an automatic upgrade/convert function17:31
fiferboyRight now I am copying csv files with that data to /usr/share/birdlist and then importing it on first run, but that takes a long time :(17:31
lcukso it is managable in the future too17:31
lcukwhy not include a pre-populated sqlite database that you can copy into user area if required?17:32
lcukinstead of using csv17:32
fiferboylcuk: I think that might be a better solution, but with my current code if I accidentally blow away a 'set' table it will restore it on next run17:33
fiferboyNot something that most users should need, unless they are editing tables by hand17:33
lcukthe trick is to not accidentally "blow away" tables ;)17:33
fiferboyYes, I'll admit it doesn't happen much17:33
lcukheh17:34
fiferboylcuk: Do you provide an initial database when installing, or does it get generated on run17:34
fiferboy?17:34
lcuk"oh shit, im being attacked by a swan, its got my n810, OMG its deleted a table in my database"17:34
woglindelol17:35
lcukliqbase originally contained no database17:35
fiferboylcuk: I would never go near a swan for that very reason!17:35
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lcukall sketches and photos were native filesystem entries17:35
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lcuki wrote an import from those17:35
fiferboyWhat about with the new database system?  How does it work on a fresh install?17:35
lcukwhich is why its got all my sketch history - when i did file system stuff i made sure i used almost GUID like filenames17:36
lcukit creates a new blank database17:36
lcukand then calls into the DB upgrade/convert function17:36
lcukthat says "ahhh, you have no version table... so makes one"17:36
lcukthen goes through the version cnoversions17:36
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fiferboylcuk: That's what I currently do, create all necessary tables and populate certain ones with data17:37
lcukso v1 stuff creates the base tables, v2 adds the indexes, v3 adds the indexes i forgot at v2..17:37
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lcukyeah but as you said: a lot of your data is static17:37
fiferboyIf I ship a starter database already populated, I would have to store it in /usr/share/birdlist on install, and then copy it to the home directory on run17:38
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lcukso you can save much time, by just starting from a database already containing this data17:38
fiferboyThen I would be using twice the space.17:38
lcukyeah thats right17:38
lcukbut each USER has their own database17:38
lcukso /home/fiferboy/.birds has its own db17:38
lcukand /home/gary/.birds has its own too17:39
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fiferboyRight, which is how it currently is too.  Although I still use that extra space for the csv and sql files17:39
lcuknow, unless you split the db itself and use foreign keys you will always have the duplicity of space17:39
lcukso forget about it :P17:39
fiferboyThis way I can have the tables properly indexed, which I haven't bothered to do yet17:39
fiferboyLuckily the tablet is more-or-less a single user environment17:40
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lcukmer doesnt tho :)17:40
lcukand doesnt qt shout at you for using hard paths17:40
fiferboyI'll just include some code in my program so it won't run in mer, and propblem solved!17:41
lcukby hard writing /home/user you already have that ;)17:41
fiferboylcuk: Who uses hard paths?17:41
fiferboyI always use environment variables to get the home directory17:41
* lcuk puts his hand up17:41
fiferboytsk tsk17:41
lcukkotczarny shouts at me for it too17:42
Jaffalcuk: Tsk, not like it's hard to not use an env variable17:42
GAN800lcuk, don't be evil.17:42
fiferboylcuk: I'm going to boycott liqbase17:42
lcukapp.startpath = strdup(cwd);17:42
lcukapp.homepath = strdup(envhome);17:42
lcukapp.codepath = strdup("/usr/share/liqbase");17:42
lcuksnprintf(buf,FILENAME_MAX,"%s/.liqbase",app.homepath);17:42
lcukapp.userdatapath=strdup(buf);17:42
woglindegetenv("home") works even on windows partly17:42
lcuki dont anymore17:42
* fiferboy lifts boycott17:43
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lcuk:D17:43
woglindethis not honors if customer wants a customer path for /share stuff17:43
lcukthat customer can change the code themselves or pay me to do it!17:43
fiferboyWell, I have to reorginize my entire program anyway, so I may as well change the way I distribute the data too17:43
woglindesame stupidity libsasl does for modules17:44
* fiferboy sighs17:44
lcuk:D17:44
qwerty12_N810Or use a symlink. *shrug*17:44
lcukwoglinde, how would i find the correct path for it then17:44
woglindeconfigure option17:44
JaffaXDG spec17:45
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fiferboylcuk: Do you use autotool yet? :)17:45
lcukhah, no17:45
lcuki broke 3 sdk installs trying to get that fscker working on maemo17:45
lcukand went bald in the process17:46
Jaffalcuk: http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-0.6.html17:46
fiferboyBut it's SOOOO much easier than creating Makefiles yourself ;)17:46
lcukand so much longer when i want to add a source file17:46
woglindefiferboy I have talked a lot with lcuk about it17:46
* lcuk just opens makefile, adds blah.o and carries on17:46
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lcukJaffa, are those variables defined by default in maemo?17:48
fiferboylcuk: You just open the configure.ac file, add them there, check your Makefile.in and see if you need any extra defines, re-run automake, re-run configure and make17:48
fiferboySimple.17:48
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lcukyou just added 5 minutes to dev time17:48
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* fiferboy doesn't remember if that is actually how you do it or not - qt creator does it for him17:48
Jaffalcuk: If the variable is unset, the spec also defines what you should consider defaults ;-)17:48
fiferboylcuk: That way you can charge more for your product17:49
lcukfiferboy, but im paying for it myself!17:49
fiferboyCharge yourself more and pass the savings on to your customers17:49
fiferboyUnless you are also your customer...17:49
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lcukfiferboy, ..17:52
fiferboyBulk discount?17:52
lcukheh17:52
woglinde*g*17:52
fiferboyLiq-uidation?17:52
lcuk:D17:53
lcukjaffa, noted in code.  thanks17:53
lcukhttp://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/commit/063092ccb5bfa553f8183327df31eedc871fea4417:53
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fiferboylcuk: Do you use git on the tablet?17:54
lcukyeah17:55
fiferboyHow's the performance?  Switching branches and merging and things?17:55
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lcukhah, i have 1 branch17:56
lcukand merging is quick17:56
lcukon the few times i do it17:56
fiferboyBut it is version 1.5 something, isn't it?17:56
* lcuk shrugs17:56
lcukgit version 1.5.6.317:56
lcukonly problem ive ever had is with maemo garage itself17:57
lcukit does not support the git: protocol17:57
lcukand so all updates to maemo garage have to be https: protocol17:57
fiferboyAh.17:57
lcukand the git has been built without https CURL support because of maemoisms..17:57
GAN800I would still love to see an FBReader patch for network sync.17:57
fiferboyYou don't lose any functionality, do you?  Just slower?17:57
lcukno, just doesnt work17:58
lcukso i can work on my maemo device happily, but i cannot store my results on the maemo servers..17:58
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GAN800.org18:01
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lcukGAN800, arent you meant to be working18:03
RST38hmmm...remoo or something...18:03
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GAN800Slow day.18:04
lcukheh18:04
lcukme goes to do more databasey stuff18:04
lcukcyas later \o18:05
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coldbootSo I finally took out any `-make *` parameters to the debian/rules file for ./configure, which made qt-maemo actually build properly.18:41
coldbootIt built find for i386, but it's failing on ARM. The exact same code, which is odd.18:42
coldbootI get this: qt-x11-4.5.0-1maemo2-arm/lib/libQtDesignerComponents.so: undefined reference to `qdesigner_internal::DesignerPropertyManager::designerAlignmentTypeId()'18:42
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coldbootDoes anyone know what qdesigner_internal is?18:44
woglindesomething inside qdesigner?18:44
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fiferboycoldboot: After you built for i386, did you check everything out clean for the ARM build?18:52
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coldbootfiferboy: I downloaded from svn twice.18:59
coldbootfiferboy: So there's no possibility of it being corrupted.18:59
coldbootfiferboy: It's happening in the tools/designer/src tree, I could clean it out and compile again...18:59
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fiferboycoldboot: That might work19:01
fiferboycoldboot: You are compiling in sb2?19:01
coldbootYeah19:02
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coldbootfiferboy: I've never completed a whole build of qt-maemo arm in sb2 before. But given i386 built find, and made debian packages, I'm not sure what it could be.19:02
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coldbootThe build got interrupted a couple of times.19:02
fiferboycoldboot: Do you set the mmap_min_addr to 4096?19:03
coldbootfiferboy: That's for an unrelated problem.19:04
coldbootfiferboy: It's not going to cause compiler errors, I don't think.19:04
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fiferboycoldboot: It has affected my builds before19:04
coldbootChecking...19:04
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coldbootfiferboy: It wasn't set, I just set it now.19:08
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fiferboycoldboot: It might help19:08
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fnordianslipIs garage.maemo.org down?  I only seem to get a blank page on two different machines.21:06
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esaym153stupid n810, no one is selling any them any more and now I don't want one21:23
esaym153but I think I need one21:23
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BlafaselGoing on vecation tomorrow, thinking about using my N810 as gps tracking device to save the route. Any experience with that? Applications to recommend? Does it work at all (GPS sucks for me most of the time)?21:26
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lcukBlafasel, one thing21:28
lcukuse internal map program21:28
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lcukdownload map for country you are going to21:28
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Stskeepsand get AGPS.21:28
lcuknothing worse than getting there and finally getting a lock to discover there is nothing for the country you are in21:28
lcuk(you are left in the middle of the sea!)21:28
Blafasellcuk: actually I don't care about the map itself, more about a way to export the GPS data to create a Google Maps overlay or something later.21:29
BlafaselLike "This is where we've been"..21:29
lcukdifferent issue then, im not sure which app will store your breadcrumbs21:29
lcukneat idea tho - remember with gps on it usually drains battery quicker21:30
BlafaselI'm going by car, using internal navigation. So it's meant only to store the track21:30
Stskeepsmaemo mapper stores tracks i think21:30
Blafasellcuk: Yeah, I can recharge it in the car probably or every now and then21:30
BlafaselStskeeps: That would be cool. actually never used that one..21:31
Stskeepsit's neat and caches maps too21:31
BlafaselWill give it a try as soon as my unit is charged again21:31
Stskeepsi told it to download caceres in spain basically.. very useful here at debconf21:31
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BlafaselThough about a simple script as well, that just does a while (1); do writeGPSDataHere; sleep 5; done or something, but not sure if that is possible21:32
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Stskeepssure, python / easy has a lib21:33
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biggatingswhats happen all21:34
biggatingshave a question here regarding the wlan card21:34
biggatingshave an app that monitors wifi signals. After a certain amount of time, the screen goes to sleep and then the wlan card also goes to sleep21:35
biggatingsmy question is: is there a way to disable the wlan card from sleeping?21:36
Stskeepsdid you test disabling power saving?21:36
Blafasel"Then I ran into Maemo Mapper. It's an application for the N810 which you can use to make tracks with the build in gps."21:36
BlafaselNice, seems like what I want21:36
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xnt14hello world!21:37
xnt14:P21:37
* xnt14 just made a new tool http://xceleo.org/mkhtml/21:37
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esaym153Blafasel: some people use the n810 with the openstreemap project: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&q=openstreetmaps+n810&btnG=Search so there much be some way to get gps data from it..21:39
Blafaselesaym153: Found that as well, but OSM2Go doesn't seem to be able to export the data for me lateron21:41
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BlafaselAt least that's what I've read. Will give that a try as well though, the comment online is outdated/6 month old21:42
esaym153Maybe you can hack it or something?21:42
biggatingsdoes anyone have an idea of how to solve this issue?21:42
Blafasel"Maybe" (windows developer, I suck at python and have no OE environment for anything else). But not tonight. I leave in 12 hours ;)21:42
Blafaselbiggatings: Stskeeps asked you something21:43
Stskeepsbiggatings: did you try to simply disable power saving in the control panell? :P21:43
Stskeepsfor the wifi21:43
biggatingsyes i did that21:43
biggatingsbut it still puts the wifi card to sleep21:44
biggatingsis there anyway to force it programmitically?21:44
Stskeepswell, that's cos the entire device goes to sleep21:44
Stskeepsprobably21:44
biggatingsthats what i thought too... but I need to figure a way that the card stays active even if the screen goes blank21:45
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Stskeepskeep the machine alive then :P21:47
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biggatingsapart from that option!!! :-)21:47
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ds3321:53
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slonopotamusheeeeey!22:51
slonopotamusdo you hear me?22:51
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BlafaselFollowing those old GPS bugs several people say that GPS bleeds out the battery _fast_ (i.e. 4 hours). Any opinions on that? Can I hope to use it for more (say, 6-8?)23:07
Stskeepsget a car charger23:09
BlafaselYeah, I'll buy a 12v to 220v adapter tomorrow.23:11
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Stskeepsah, but there's cig plug ones23:12
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BlafaselStskeeps: Yeah, but I need to charge the cellphones and laptops as well ;)23:13
Stskeepsah23:13
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wndI often have the gps on for 7 hours after recharging23:25
wndnavicore's "Map" constantly updates the screen and thus suck the battery dry in no time23:25
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wndI get that seven hours with maemo mapper while geocaching, which means I probably have the screen turned on something like one fifth of that time23:27
Blafaselwnd: Thanks. I don't need to look at the screen at all, just want the log. Your comment suggests that this would work quite well.23:28
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biggatingsanyone know if there is a "rc.local" file for the 810?23:36
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woglindebiggatings look into /etc/init.d23:37
woglindemaybee you find a file like rc.local23:37
biggatingsok what i am trying to do is when the device starts up, i want to run a script that sets the wlan power to off (disabling thepower mangement option)23:38
biggatingsdoes that make sense?23:38
biggatingsor do you know of somewhere that I can do this23:38
woglindeyou can configure the wlan manager not to connect to any wlan23:39
woglindeso the powersafe is automagicly enabled23:40
biggatingsthats not what I want to do23:40
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biggatingsthe problem is when  i run this application, after a certain amount of time it goes to sleep also putting the wlan to sleep. I used this command and left it for 30 mins and it worked: command: iwconfig wlan0 power off23:41
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biggatingsbut to do this i need to be in root and then I need to do iwcofig wlan0 mode manged23:42
biggatingsthen run that command i put up first23:42
`0660so you just want to disable the automatic wlan power management?23:42
biggatingsyes23:43
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`0660there might be a better way to do it23:44
biggatingsall ears :-)23:44
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`0660i would try searching for: maemo disabling automatic wlan power management23:45
biggatingstried and havent gotten anything23:45
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`0660weird. you're not the first person to want to do this23:47
biggatingsi figured as much!!23:47
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`0660maybe you should wait for more knowledgeable persons to wake up in this channel23:48
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biggatingslol23:48
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Stskeepsi said exact same thing earlier.. connections, disable powerf saving..23:49
biggatingsi have it disabled and it still does the same thing23:49
Stskeepscheck dmesg23:50
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slops17hey all23:50
slops17quick question for you23:51
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slops17is there a way to set the power management on the wireless card on the n810 to off permanentaly23:52
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woglindelol23:52
qwerty12_N810same person..23:52
`0660:)23:52
Stskeepsindeed23:52
woglindeah the old game23:52
Stskeepsdoesn't increase chances of answers23:53
slops17huh23:53
Stskeepsjust decrease23:53
woglinderight23:53
* slops17 is lost23:53
woglindemental ignore23:53
konttori_Stskeeps: i said exact same thing earlier.. connections, disable powerf saving..23:53
konttori_[23:51] biggatings: i have it disabled and it still does the same thing23:53
Stskeepsslops17: learn that webircs reveals your ip23:53
konttori_slops17: ^ see above23:53
slops17i am not the smae person23:53
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`0660:D23:54
Stskeepsircname  : 12.228.32.2, slops17 [n=slops17@12.228.32.223:54
qwerty12_N810[biggatings] (i=0ce42002@gateway/web/freenode/x-a30f06fdaf5febe7): 12.228.32.223:54
slops17yeah but not the same person23:54
slops17didnt even know he asked23:54
slops17same compnay23:55
Stskeepsa bit personality split, eh? :P23:55
slops17we are brothers :)23:55
slops17looks like we both had the same idea to come and ask23:56
`0660your brother didn't take the advice that well23:57
slops17oh ok well like i said i didnt even know he was in here23:57
`0660or should i say your "brother" :)23:58
slops17u dont have to belive me that we are brothers23:58
slops17just looking for some help not to bash any one23:59
woglindehm gave him them same answer23:59
woglindegive23:59
`0660go and ask your "brother" to check his dmesg as adviced23:59
woglindehrms23:59
slops17ok will do23:59

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