IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-07-18

JaffaThere've been lots of Chinese names on maemo-* recently.00:00
JaffaIt could be legally licensed; Nokia aren't going to tell us (although there's no press release)00:00
qwerty12_N810They have a repo for the clones: http://www.woojoy.com/repository/pool/free/00:01
milhousecould make long-term OS support interesting - not so easy to EOL a version due to a Nokia hardware change if other manufacturers are supporting the platform00:01
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JaffaWould be good to get them involved in Mer, then they can have what they've got legally.00:01
Jaffamilhouse: Indeed. Last word on it at OSiM from Ari Jaaksi was that they weren't interested in licencing Maemo00:01
milhouseI'm beginning to wonder if there is space for so many mobile operating systems00:01
milhouseiPhone, Symbian, Android, WebOS, Maemo, Mer... can they all survive?00:02
milhouseWin Mob... I've probably forgotten one or two more as well00:02
javispedrodunno coldboot, mines clearly say  --host=i386-linux --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi00:02
Jaffamilhouse: OpenMoko, all the proprietary SE & Motorola & ... OSes00:03
coldbootjavispedro: So mine is the wrong version, it's not a cross-compiler...00:03
RST38hJaffa: I seem to remember that you could use "native" tools or "host" tools00:03
milhouseJaffa: Ah yes, although SE seem to be heading down the Android route, and are Motorola still in the game?00:04
RST38hJaffa: But I also remember SB2 guys turning off "host" tools option00:04
JaffaRST38h: Really? Blimey. (I did caveat my original stmt with sb1 ;-))00:04
Jaffamilhouse: Goodness knows. Last few phones have been low-level Linux based, FWIW.00:05
javispedroit _should_ use host tools, at least maemo sdk 2 promoted that you could install newer versions of "Host tools" with less effort than in sb100:05
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Jaffajavispedro: Given the pain with using the "official" Maemo SDK, I've never thought it worth the effort to suffer /more/ pain for an unofficial SDK based on sb2...00:06
javispedroI'm yet to experience that "pain" :)00:06
coldbootjavispedro: So I can install tools and toolchains.00:06
milhouseThis Chinese Optima device is using a Marvell PXA320 processor... if they can get Fremantle running on this thing it might go a long way to solving the problems getting Fremantle to run on N8x000:06
milhouse(maybe)00:06
coldbootjavispedro: For tools I get etch, etch-2008, lenny-2009-100:07
Jaffamilhouse: What problems getting Fremantle running on the N8x0? Mer already has most of it running on a 770.00:07
coldbootjavispedro: For toolchain I get: arm-2005q3, arm-2007q3, i386-2007q300:07
milhouseJaffa: Based on what Nokia have said - I don't know if the problems are real or marketing bs00:08
javispedroI'm using etch-2008 and the 2007-q3... but on sb1, so I don't really know what to suggest ...00:08
milhousemarketing bs as in "prematurely end of life a bunch of devices so that the suckers will go out and buy the new kit"00:08
Jaffamilhouse: Nokia aren't backporting Fremantle because of wanting to use Clutter & effects to define the look of Fremantle: no accelerated 3D on N8x0 and slower CPU make that "real"00:09
milhouseJaffa: Fair enough - I guess the Chinese guys will have designed a reasonable 3D engine into their PXA320 device00:10
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milhouseJaffa: which might make Fremantle feasible00:10
javispedroand I'm sure whatever drivers they get will be of superior quality than whatever driver we may get ;)00:10
Jaffajavispedro: No sb1 pain? Wow.00:11
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javispedroJaffa, I'm intrigued. What did you hate about sb1?00:11
qwerty12_N810milhouse: They're using chinook - I don't think they're concerned about updates...00:11
milhouseqwerty: haha00:12
Jaffajavispedro: It's probably more Nokia's use of it than the tool. The multiple install steps; the lack of quality in the SDK (all the warnings on starting af-sb-init.sh, for example; no clean upgrade path; no consideration for easily installing rootstraps into existing installs (e.g. having diablo & fremantle: works; but instructions not good); having to upgrade sb when upgrading SDK - blurred lines)00:13
javispedrook :P00:14
JaffaWhat else, massive disk space use; poor x86-64 support; no Mac support so limits developers to x86 Linux users; ...00:14
JaffaI could go on ;-)00:14
javispedroI myself just get latest Apophis00:14
javispedrothen install it on vmware since I'm not going to disable vdso ;)00:14
JaffaYeah, the instructions don't make it clear what turning off vdso will do00:15
javispedroapart from destroy any hope for performance you had on your workstation, dunno :D00:15
coldbootjavispedro: I don't get it, I set my toolchain to the arm one, when the arm rootstrap was set.00:16
Jaffajavispedro: Yeah, but NOkia don't tell you that00:16
coldbootjavispedro: It says that the target is arm, and the compiler is i486, but gcc -v says the same thing, and compiling is extremely slow.00:17
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javispedrocoldboot, may it be that's just sb2 usual slowness?00:17
javispedroit is a known "to do" afaik00:18
coldbootjavispedro: It's only for arm, it's orders of magnitude slower than i386.00:18
RST38h32fps00:19
javispedroguess what? try to compile anything, and then ps ax  to see if there's some qemu-user loaded00:19
* RST38h once again wins, ARM and its weak memory performance lose00:19
coldbootjavispedro: 32235 pts/4    S+     0:00 /usr/bin/sb2-qemu-arm -U LD_PRELOAD -L / -0 g++ /usr/bin/g++00:20
javispedrothere you have :D now try to guess why it's doing that00:20
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coldbootjavispedro: I don't know if that's the host arm compiler compiling to arm, or the host i386 compiler.00:21
javispedrothat's the arm emulated compiler00:22
coldbootWhat would the host i386 to arm compiler look like?00:22
javispedrofor a start, it will not begin with "sb2-qemu-arm"00:23
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coldbootDo all invocations get intercepted and run by sb2-qemu-arm unless they're gcc, when everything's working right?00:24
* slonopotamus just builds on tablet without any pain00:25
* RST38h asks the Tentacled One to give his ARM two more registers00:26
javispedrocoldboot, sb2-qemu-arm intercepts all armel binaries trying to be exec'd using binfmt00:26
javispedronot only gcc00:26
Jaffajavispedro: We should get a really lightweight image together which runs enough to export NFS/SSHFS with a recent Scratchbox. Then installation becomes: get Scratchbox image, install preferred rootstraps and cross-mount filesystems.00:27
JaffaAlthough once Rover's released, I think I'll do more on-device building (lots of disk, faster processor)00:27
javispedroI am currently doing just that :D00:28
coldbootjavispedro: And what's supposed to happen when gcc gets run?00:28
coldbootjavispedro: Since it's supposed to run an i386 executable.00:28
javispedromutual nfs : host mounts vmware, vmware mounts host: I can modify scratchbox's rootstraps from host, scratchbox's home is host's00:28
Jaffajavispedro: I'm imagining an image with no X or anything. If you've got a really lightweight starting point, I'd love to see it00:28
Jaffajavispedro: Sounds good00:28
javispedroI cannot get more "out of the box" than hat00:28
javispedro*that00:29
javispedro*It00:29
javispedrodarn typos ;)00:29
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JaffaThe "Maemo Development Appliance" approach appeared sensible but: a) it provides a second desktop; I want to use my own; b) distributing Nokia's SDK is shaky and more work.00:29
javispedroJaffa, unfortunately minimal build-capable Debian is around ~1GiB00:30
JaffaHmm.00:30
javispedrobut will easily fill up to ~3 Gib (not really sure if minimal is enough)00:31
* Jaffa wonders about Ubuntu JeOS would be better00:31
javispedrothen each rootstrap is around ~0.5GiB00:31
* Jaffa imagines: provide Scratchbox image and tools available for download; and instructions for installing the various rootstraps.00:32
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Jaffa+ workstation setup for Windows, OSX and Linux00:32
JaffaAnd then, bingo, I've also got a summit talk ;-)00:32
javispedrolol00:32
javispedrolbt was doing something interesting too, using obs00:32
JaffaYeah, must speak to him about that too00:33
lbtm00:33
* lbt shakes his head to try and clear it00:33
lbtQt + gi00:33
lbtt00:33
lbtugh00:33
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javispedrothis is the problem with Java: the BIG-optimized OpenJDK has nearly 30MiB footprint.00:38
javispedrothe jalimo team has done a pretty good job, with less than 15MiB00:39
ds3do you really want full java vs J2ME stuff?00:39
Jaffajavispedro: Seen the work Sun's doing with Project Jigsaw and the Java SE Embedded work00:39
* Jaffa wants full Java.00:40
* javispedro wants full Java too.00:40
* lbt wants perl00:40
javispedrothe Embedded JRE, as installed on my tablet, is 46 MiB00:41
* lbt wants perl running on parrot00:41
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coldbootjavispedro: I've found `maemo-sdk enter devel`, but it says it can't find some instruction while compiling.00:43
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* javispedro does not remember the maemo sdk 2 manual00:44
javispedroeither way if you feel your setup is fscked... you know :D00:44
javispedroreinstall ;)00:44
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coldbootjavispedro: I'm not sure if it ever worked. I've also been tracking it in git the whole time.00:45
ds3why full java?00:45
* ShadowJK wants java me :-)00:46
ds3I have had mix experience with java stuff - the doc converter thing for palm worked okay but the latest experience with a GPX viewer was painful... it kept running out of memory and the app would just silently fail00:47
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ShadowJKopera mini seems to scale with available memory quite well :/00:48
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glassvm doesn't matter if the coder of the java app is stupid00:49
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javispedrolanguage doesn't matter. as the old saying goes, you can code fortran in any language ;)00:50
glassye :p00:50
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Luke-Jr)#()@00:55
Luke-Jrmy life is the most suck possible00:55
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|thunderHi all, I Just got my google voice account all setup. So I decided that it was time I got my gizmo SIP account setup in my maemo account so I can send and recieve sip calls via "Internet Call" and the red/green status bar icon.01:10
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|thunderSo, I got that all set up... Now all of my incoming calls to my google voice number are forwarded to my internet tablet SIP account01:10
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|thunderBut in order to make a call I have to use the Grand Central dialer or the google voice website01:11
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|thunderDoes anyone know if it is possible to use gizmo SIP for incoming calls and use Google Voice for outgoing calls without using grand central program or the google site ?01:12
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|thunderis there a way to send all outgoing calls through google voice rather than through gizmo which costs money ?01:12
mavhcand can I fake being in usa to sign up to gVoice?01:12
|thunderprobably01:12
|thunderI was on a waiting list for almost a year01:13
|thunderand im in US01:13
|thunderlol01:13
mavhcI got an invite01:13
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amr-anyone know where the status(?) icon for xchat is located?01:14
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|thunderamr-; its in my status tray01:25
amr-i mean01:26
amr-the actual file01:26
amr-heh01:26
|thunderlol...01:26
amr-i want to make it black and white01:26
|thunder/etc/share/pixmaps or something01:26
|thunder/usr/share i meant01:27
amr-yeah i figured01:27
amr-:p01:27
amr-ty01:27
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|thunderfind it ?01:29
amr-yep, ty01:29
|thundercool01:29
amr-anyone know of an ftpd for maemo?01:29
amr-:D01:29
amr-oh there is proftpd apparently01:29
rkirti~seen vimzard01:31
infobotvimzard <n=arunc@203.199.213.3> was last seen on IRC in channel #gsoc, 88d 3h 40m 52s ago, saying: 'sid0: :-P'.01:31
rkirtiD'oh01:31
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daniel32708Guys, when I try to format my external 8gb SD,  in my N810, using the "File manager", it gives me an error "memory card corrupted or unformatted" so i try to format it but then it tells me "unable to format - memory card in use"  but it is not in use....   can u guys please help me?   i wish there was a g-parted  type of thing, is there?01:37
javispedroso what? remove it and format using whatever computer you like01:39
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daniel32708i got no sdhc in my other memory card readers01:39
javispedrothen use usb cable01:40
javispedrobut remember to reboot/power off instead of just unplugging if you modify the partition table01:40
daniel32708i did, but my pc doesnt let me mount it01:40
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javispedrobut you don't have g-parted or some other partition manager on your pc?01:41
daniel32708is there a gparted for maemo?  or an equivalent?01:41
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daniel32708ok, gparted in my pc found it... ill try formatting there01:42
daniel32708but still it would be cool to have gparted in the maemo hehe01:42
ShadowJKThere's parted in the repos, though that's not gparted.01:43
daniel32708what formats can the n810 read?  only  fats?   or can it use ext2,3 or 4?01:43
daniel32708foe the external sd that is01:43
daniel32708shadow: thx!01:43
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ShadowJKI'd probably do N8x0-as-card-reader and use desktop machine myself :)01:44
daniel32708yeah thats what am doing now01:44
ShadowJKMake sure you're not wiping your harddrive.01:45
daniel32708but can it read the memory card if i format it as an ext2,3 or 4?01:45
daniel32708or only fatts?01:45
ShadowJKI think it can do ext2 atleast01:45
ShadowJKIt takes about 2 minutes to find out..01:46
daniel32708yeah lol01:46
daniel32708ill try01:46
daniel32708lets see what happens01:47
daniel32708i am doint an ext301:47
jhfordis it possible to get anything more useful out of the nokia during startup other than the nokia logo?01:49
jhforda standard linux start thing would be heaven01:50
ShadowJK"standard linux start" these days is $distro logo...01:50
jhfordok.  old school one :P01:51
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daniel32708i would love to have a login screen01:51
daniel32708has any body done something like that?01:51
qwerty12_N810jhford: http://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Boot_messages01:51
jhfordawesome!01:51
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daniel32708ok, ext3 didnt work01:53
daniel32708lets try ext201:53
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daniel32708how sad....no ext2 on external sd01:59
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daniel32708fat32 did work02:07
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qwerty12_N810Hint: There's mbcache and ext2 modules in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/. Feel free to insmod them.02:09
daniel32708thx02:09
* lcuk hiccups02:09
qwerty12_N810BOO!02:09
lcuk:O02:10
lcuku scared me02:10
* lcuk hiccups again02:10
daniel32708i love thenokia n810!!!02:10
lcuk:) yes daniel3270802:10
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lcukwhats people moved to now piratebay is defunct02:22
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javispedrolcuk: well, they sold out after all. not that it does matter, considering legal pressure I would've done same.02:24
lcukso are all the users gonna stay there, or is theres a new playground to try?02:25
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javispedroi assume it's just a matter of time and waiting for "the guy with the balls" ;)02:26
lcukwazd?02:26
crashanddielcuk, mininova, isohunt, torrentreactor, btjunkie (BT IS MADE OUT OF JUNKIES)02:26
* qwerty12_N810 has a demonoid account that he should use more02:27
lcukaccounts?02:27
crashanddielcuk, dmnd is invite only02:27
lcukyou willingly sign up for accounts?02:27
qwerty12_N810No, the one but I may have invites, let me check02:27
crashanddielcuk, yes, you know the thing that lets you sign in?02:27
lcukive heard of mininova02:27
javispedroprivate torrents? you don't leech? :P02:27
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crashanddiejavispedro, I have my upload limit set to -20% and 1 minute after torrent completes02:27
qwerty12_N810javispedro: my dl ratio > ul :\02:28
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crashanddieI am secretly hoping illegal downloads will stop while still using the system02:28
javispedromy dl:ul ratio is something like 300:102:28
lcukjavispedro, before bit torrent there was directconnect and dc++ etc, :) there are hubs around which require 100s of gb of stuff to enter02:28
javispedrobut that's because I'm subscribed to the national provider of VADSL02:28
crashanddiewaste!02:28
lcukbut no registration, self governed and whilst large, its under radar :)02:28
lcukwaste is even smaller scale02:29
javispedroVERY asimmetric digital subscriptors line ;)02:29
crashanddiehttp://waste.sourceforge.net/02:29
lcukjavispedro, your ratio shouldnt matter if you have decent stuff to share :)02:29
lcukyour 1mb of upload oculd save someone waiting a month02:29
javispedrodoubt anyone in this world is interested in my porn^Wdata02:30
lcukcrashanddie, waste would technically work well with the liqbase group ;)02:30
qwerty12_N810"Uploaded: 3.53 GB" "Downloaded: 19.09 GB"02:30
lcukjavispedro, do not underestimate the depravity of the person down the st02:30
lcukjust remember: you are not the only one who likes midget porn02:31
javispedrolcuk, god to know. i guess that makes us two now :D02:31
crashanddielcuk, it would indeed02:31
lcuk2? hell theres more - crashanddie has the biggest collection ever02:31
qwerty12_N810Meh. Lanky porn is where it's at.02:31
crashanddieI only do eunuch gay porn02:32
lcukthats not lanky porn, thats you watching with wrong aspect ratio again02:32
crashanddiewell, eunuch gay midget porn02:32
qwerty12_N810Oh, I can make invite codes. Anyone want?02:33
lcukinvite codes to eunuch get midget porn sites?02:33
* lcuk cant type02:34
lcukgay02:34
crashanddielcuk, and will that huge collection, I like to think of myself as someone midgets can look up to02:34
qwerty12_N810No, demonoid. But I'd be happy to get codes for that.02:34
lcuklol02:34
lcuki dont need to signup to anything02:34
lcukwas just idle ponderment02:34
lcukholy crap - that was a mammoth trump02:35
* lcuk needs gas mask02:35
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crashanddieBut quite frankly, eunuch gay midget porn has too many shortcomings02:35
`0660:)02:35
* javispedro made it through his whole music library and now understands why apple markets something with 30 GiB hdd02:37
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lcukjavispedro, before your 30gb, my principle music selection fitting on a couple of 90min cassettes02:40
crashanddieprincipal02:40
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* lcuk wonders why crashanddie is correcting him :P02:42
lcukmy english was fine, its you lot that are screwed ;)02:43
* lcuk says canvass and gets heckles up :D02:43
qwerty12_N810it's02:43
crashanddieheckled02:43
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, we're actually making sentences :P02:44
lcukno, i get your heckles up by heckling you.  you have been heckled.02:44
* lcuk ponders coding02:45
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javispedroforgot to recharge the nit02:56
javispedrowill have to leave it the whole night sucking energy02:56
javispedrohope it's not in flames when I wake up02:56
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chxrejoice! to replace my lost N810 (cue teardrop) I just won one on eBay for 217.5bucks04:35
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Luke-Jrchx: fail04:46
chxwhy04:46
chxi am in Canada04:46
Luke-Jrchx: N810 is fail04:48
chxoh sure04:51
Macerwtf04:51
chxplease tell me what other device is there that can be had under 300 bucks delivered with a 4" 800x480 res  screen that runs Linux04:51
chxI am not picky about the flavor of Linux.04:51
Luke-Jrchx: SmartQ 704:52
chxoh i forgot to mention, yes04:52
chxI need a keyboard04:52
Luke-Jrchx: bluetooth04:52
chxvery, very badly need.04:52
chxNot good04:52
chxtwo device, fail.04:52
Luke-Jrchx: Zaurus SL-C86004:52
Luke-Jroh, only 640x48004:52
Luke-Jrgood enough04:52
Luke-Jrmake the SmartQ + keyboard into 1 device04:53
Luke-Jrshoudln't be too hard04:53
chxcall me back when that happens04:53
chxalso? isnt the SmartQ some noname chinese product?04:53
chxI am wary04:53
Luke-Jrbetter than a bad-name american product04:53
chxHaving the N810 on me is sometimes mission critical.04:53
chxAnd for the few weeks I had it , it was pure joy04:53
Luke-Jrchx: you must not use the GPS04:54
chxit runs Skype and ssh and there are many, many characters visible in the SSH window04:54
chxI dont04:54
chxI have a Holux M1200 reciever04:54
Luke-JrI see.04:54
chxYou can't beat that receiver if you are walking04:54
Luke-JrI suppose if you don't need the GPS it might be tolerable.04:54
chxno, I dont.04:54
chxno matter what they build in , they cant beat the M1200 anyways, so why bother?04:54
Luke-Jrhaha04:54
Luke-Jrbut does the M1200 run Linux? ;)04:55
chx????04:55
chxit does not run anything04:55
chxit's the size of an usb key04:55
chxit sits in the backpack and feeds GPS over BT04:55
chxfeeds my phone , feeds my N81004:55
chxnot at the same time, but as necessary04:55
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Luke-JrI see.04:56
Luke-Jrbut it must run something04:56
Luke-Jrdumb hardware can't do bluetooth, can it?04:56
chxbtw the MTK MT3318 chipset is so much better than the sifr iii for pedestrians04:56
Luke-Jrcertainly not GPS O.o04:56
Luke-Jrwho said anything about sirf iii?04:56
chxwell, that's the only usable chip besides the MTK04:56
chxI only Nokia uses some crap in E90 and N81004:56
chxthat's why i said, why bother?04:57
chxI dont care about the GPS04:57
chxI agree it's a fail.04:57
Luke-JrN810 has a GPS5300 chip04:57
chxSo what?04:57
chxIt's not perfect.04:57
Luke-Jrwhich has potential, if we could get docs04:57
chxAside from the GPS chip, the device rocks.04:57
chxIt's only now that I had it and suffered a week without it I see how hard it rocked.04:57
chxSo I bought another.04:57
Luke-Jrheh04:57
chxsitting on a bike in the gym04:58
chxand being able to Skype chat04:58
chxthat's bliss.04:58
Luke-Jrwell, it's about as useful as a pad of paper for me right now04:58
Luke-Jrespecially as there's only internet when I'm at home04:58
chxAs my life revolves around Skype chat and SSH04:58
chxwell04:58
Luke-Jrand the keyboard sucks too much to make it better than going to my desktop04:58
chxI would love a better keyboard of course04:58
chxIf i would be the DIY type, i would grab an N800 and http://shop.crackberry.com/freedom-slim-keypad/14A42A5051.htm?utm_source=GoogleProducts&utm_medium=shopping_engine&utm_campaign=GoogleProducts this04:59
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Luke-Jrwhy not SQ and that?05:00
chxLuke-Jr: UM05:00
chxLuke-Jr: I have severe trust issues :)05:00
Luke-Jr05:00
chxalso.05:00
chxhttp://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26366 this here is 151.5105:01
chxthe keyboard is above 5005:01
chxnot much savings over N81005:01
chxwhat do i gain05:02
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Luke-Jrchx: an open platform05:03
Luke-Jrhttp://gpsd.berlios.de/hardware.html05:03
Luke-JrHolux doesn't seem to work very well?05:03
chxthe M1200 is not even listed.05:04
chxand I can testify that it works with both my E51 phone and the N810 happily.05:04
chxI never ever tried it in "gps mouse" mode just BT05:04
chxerm05:05
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chxi mean , i never tried the usb cable.05:05
Luke-Jrchx: what does gpsd think it is?05:06
chxI have absolutely no idea05:06
chxAs said, I have lost my N810 and just won one on eBay05:06
Luke-Jri c05:06
Luke-Jrhow long does the battery last?05:07
chxuh05:07
chxa day?05:07
chxdunno, really long05:07
chxalso, i have a pocket battery05:07
Luke-JrO.o05:08
Luke-Jrchx: N810 claims to last a month :þ05:08
chxerm05:08
chxwith the GPS receiver and the BT radio on?05:09
Luke-Jrwhich translates to ~3 hours in reality05:09
Luke-Jrlol05:09
Luke-Jrdunno, BT is too complicated for me05:09
chxwell i guess it can standby for a month.05:09
chxwith the wifi and the bt radios off, the cpu and the ram consumes miniscule amounts of power.05:09
Luke-Jryay, it can be useless for a month!05:09
Luke-JrXD05:09
chxno05:10
chxfor me the N810 is the reassurance that i can leave my post any time i wish05:10
chxand if i get a call , i can immediately SSH in05:10
chxit's freedom05:10
Luke-Jrif you happen to be near an AP05:10
chxI am always near an AP, my friend05:10
Luke-Jrso not really freedom05:10
Luke-Jrfreedom within a very small area05:11
chxI have a Nokia E51, I told you, and that a) works as a BT modem for the N810 b) runs JoikuSpot.05:11
Luke-Jroh, right05:11
chxso there is always broadband wherever i go05:11
Luke-Jrwith a low cap?05:12
chx6gb?05:12
chxa month?05:12
Luke-Jryeah, low XD05:12
chxum05:12
chxthat's a crapload of ssh and skype im traffic :p05:12
chxok, so i browse a little too, yeah05:12
chxand...?05:12
chxi leave the broadband guzzling tasks for my desktop05:13
chxi cant watch 1080p movies on the N810 anyways :p05:13
Luke-Jr6 GB/mo is 2.42 KB/sec05:13
chxif you use it 30*86400 sec then yes05:13
chxbut if you use it for a few ten hours the whole month?05:14
Luke-Jrhmm05:14
chxi do NOT need high speed, i need low latency05:14
chxwhat i do, i could do on dialup, and i actually did05:15
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chxback then it was Unix talk05:15
chxbut not much else changed :p05:15
Luke-Jrdialup is faster than 6 GB/mo ;)05:15
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chxLuke-Jr: you have a strange view :p05:17
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Luke-Jrchx: perhaps I am too idealistic05:18
chxperhaps05:18
chxi spent *years* yearning after the perfect device05:19
chxIt never happened05:19
chxso I am happy with the N81005:19
Luke-Jrheh05:19
chxas i said above, if you say ' i need at least 480 vertical lines, a keyboard and skype '05:20
chxthere are aint many devices in this world.05:20
Luke-JrI am personally anti-Skype05:21
chxthe Sony X1 got so close to be ideal05:21
Luke-Jras far as I am concerned, it is a proprietary non-standards compliant and trojan-like VoIP app05:21
chxbut I felt violated when i touched the Windows OS05:21
chxI ... can't.05:21
chxnow, if they release one with Android...05:22
Luke-Jrinstall Gentoo on it :þ05:22
chx????05:22
chxyou can run Linux on the Xperia X1?????????05:22
Luke-JrI imagine.05:22
Luke-Jrhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MrWIxDMCsE05:23
Luke-Jrthat video sucks05:24
Luke-JrXD05:24
chxoh and Samsung Omnia Pro . Also WinMo.05:26
chxThe time will come when all these devices run Android05:26
chxand then people just root them to run a full Linux :D05:27
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GAN8001Or just use Maemo.05:33
GAN8001No rooting required.05:33
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Luke-JrI imagine Android is at least better than Maemo05:34
GeneralAntillesYeah, funny.05:34
* GeneralAntilles needs to revisit the ignore plan.05:34
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disco_stuhi everybody05:40
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles, when advaced-battery is installed is there a way to remove the original battery icon ?05:43
disco_stui mean hide it from the tray05:43
GeneralAntillesKill the .desktop file for it.05:43
disco_stui see05:44
disco_stuGeneralAntilles, thx05:44
GeneralAntilles /usr/share/something05:44
disco_stuGeneralAntilles, when you said kill you mean a proccess ?05:46
GeneralAntillesNo, delete or move the .desktop05:46
disco_stuok05:47
disco_stuGeneralAntilles, done.. thanks05:48
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles, instead of deleting it I hacked it, so now i can disable it in control panel05:58
GeneralAntillesThat works too05:58
chxwhat is advanced-battery?06:03
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jason__chx, it's a panel applet to show % battery remaining, along with other system stats.10:03
chxjason__: great, where can i find it?10:04
jason__Well, it's in one of the repositories I have installed on my tablet - let me check which10:04
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chxjason__: thanks10:08
jason__http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php, search for 'advanced-power'10:11
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chxahhhh advanced-power!10:50
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Dieterbelbt: my quest for the ultimate device is here : http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=586304#p586304 maybe you have some tips for me? :)11:45
lbtoops - need a login11:45
Dieterbehmm crap11:46
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lbtwaiting for mail :)11:47
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Dieterbelbt: oh well, basically I'm looking for a portable (fits in pocket) device which I can do all my personal organizing with (so a hardware keyboard is a good idea), it must have a very open OS (i'm not too fond of android which' userland is only java) so I can run all tools i would run on my normal desktop (perl/c things using libc/python/...) like mplayer, mpd, mutt, vim , urxvt, bash and such11:48
* lbt proposes N810+Mer11:49
Dieterbelbt: oh, and it should also be usable as a phone. that's the problem with nokias n8* stuff11:49
Dieterbeand i would prefer to use a headset (earbugs with microphone), so the size may be a bit bigger then a regular phone as i don't intend to hold it next to my ear much11:50
lbtN900 may well be the one11:50
Dieterbeyeah i think that too11:50
lbtit'll be less open though11:50
lbtand pricey11:50
* lbt wants one11:50
Dieterbeless open?11:51
Dieterbehow's that?11:51
lbtNokia can't/won't open everything11:51
* lbt should say "less open than Mer"11:51
lbtMer is the community effort (with Nokia assistance) to make an open distro for N8x011:52
lbthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer11:52
Dieterbewell i don't mind if the device drivers and such are closed11:52
Stskeepsit will be as hackable as n8x0 but some blobs may be needed on top of a open system for hw interfacing11:53
Dieterbei can live with that :)11:53
lbtStskeeps: I met Dieterbe in the uzbl area11:53
lbthttp://www.uzbl.org/11:54
Dieterbeif i'm free as a bird in userspace, that's what matters most to me11:54
lbthistorically the maemo OS hasn't had a huge repo backing it up11:56
lbtbut it's been 'portable to'11:56
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Dieterbewhat do you mean exactly?11:57
lbtThe standard release points to a complete repo11:57
lbtbut it is very sparse.11:57
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lbtSo you end up porting loads of libraries etc11:58
Dieterbeis that a problem?11:58
lbtand then you find that it wasn't based on a snapshot of a known distro11:58
lbtso version mismatches occur11:58
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lbtit becomes harder than it should11:59
lbtbut, if you can code it, you can run it11:59
lbtin Mer we've based on Ubuntu11:59
lbtso we provide all the maemo deltas to ubuntu base libs12:00
lbtso we have all the 'touchability' of maemo12:00
lbtbut can apt-get install any ubuntu app12:00
lbtit may be crap to use (screen/keyboard/mouse)12:00
lbtbut it should run12:00
lbtso 'apt-get install mysql-server'12:01
lbtworks12:01
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lbtfor standard maemo that'd take weeks of backporting a chain of libraries12:01
Dieterbelbt> it may be crap to use (screen/keyboard/mouse) <-- can't you just use the same UI stuff as maemo then?12:01
lbtah12:02
lbtI meant installing a non adapted application12:02
lbteg trying to run Qt-designer on a tiny screen is insane12:02
lbtbut it runs12:02
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lbta lot of what Mer/maemo does is adapt UIs to make them work on small, touch devices12:04
lbthence the interest in uzbl12:04
lbtthe idea of a seperate touch UI 'controlling' it12:04
lbtand the idea of uzbl linking to the same DB as the contact mgr12:04
Dieterbewhat issues do you have with the tear browser? my guess would be it's easier to hack on tear to integrate with your stuff then to use uzbl12:05
slonopotamuslbt, do you know why geany from extras doesn't have vkb?12:05
lbtquite possibly12:05
lbtMer Extras?12:06
slonopotamuslbt, we're on #maemo :)12:06
* lbt is lost12:06
lbtIs there any chance it's using fremantle code?12:07
slonopotamusno idea12:07
lbtsome apps are being ported towards fremantle and I think there are assumptions about a hw kb12:08
lbtotherwise, no, sorry12:08
slonopotamuslbt, doesn't h-i-m automagically work with everything gtk-based?12:08
lbtDieterbe: I liked the idea of a controllable browser12:08
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lbtslonopotamus: yes, it should12:08
slonopotamuslbbt, well, it doesn't for geany :)12:09
GnutOnMobilehello12:09
GnutOnMobileHi lbt12:09
lbthey GnutOnMobile12:10
lbtI just started Mer-Qt last night12:10
Dieterbelbt: uzbl is at this point very aimed towards keyboard control, there are no gui widgets and no mouse gestures and such12:10
lbtDieterbe: ah, I was hoping it was 'socket' controlled12:10
lbtso no assumptions on input12:11
lbtyou heard slonopotamus... we can't assume a keyboard and there are horrid hacks to fake X-events and the like12:11
Dieterbelbt: yeah it is socket controlled12:11
lbtGnutOnMobile: I'd like to discuss the git branch Qt thing sometime when you're at a real KB12:12
slonopotamuslbt, ... if you need hacks, you're doing smth wrong :)12:12
lbtDieterbe: so echo "scroll up" | uzbl12:12
Dieterbelbt: scroll_vert <variable> | uzbl :)12:13
lbtyes12:14
lbtthough there are challenges to make that 'sync' with precise finger movements12:14
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Dieterbelbt: look at "command syntax" and "variables and constants" @ http://github.com/Dieterbe/uzbl/blob/928fc65c34e8360e7019f4181530377cc6374432/README12:14
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Qt_developerHello, I want to develop a QT application for n810 running maemo 4. I want the application to display a dynamically changing SVG, allow the user to annotate it using stylus and save it as SVG. Will this be feasible?13:14
Qt_developerno answers?13:18
Stskeepspatience :)13:18
Stskeepslbt, ping13:19
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VDVsxQt_developer, seems doable for me, but I'm far from a Qt expert :)13:22
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lbtStskeeps: hi13:30
lbtah, he's gone13:30
lbtQT_developer_: hi13:31
QT_developer_hi13:31
lbtyou've not gone then :)13:31
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QT_developer_ya i m here. net connection is not good here.13:31
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lbtOK, so Qt on the tablet is as capable as Qt anywhere else13:31
lbttypically any Qt app will run on the tablet - the main concerns are UI13:32
lbtI don't see any issues at all doing what you want - other than writing the code ;)13:33
QT_developer_lbt: ok, but I read on QT website that it supports only static SVG13:35
QT_developer_*static tiny SVG13:35
lbtOk, so you may need to discuss this on #qt --- I can tell you about Qt on maemo but not all of Qt :)13:36
QT_developer_ok, thanks. and are there any existing packages to display svg on n810? does microb support it?13:37
lcukJayesh uses svg in his inkface thing: http://jyro.blogspot.com/2008/09/inkface-svg-based-gui-design.html13:39
lcuknot best performance wise, but shows it exists13:39
QT_developer_ok. thanks for the link.13:40
lcukmornin lbt \o13:42
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crashanddienew blackberry has micro usb slot13:57
crashanddiemeh13:57
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radicfor what ist dbus-daemon?15:26
Stskeepsdaemon for dbus?15:26
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: hah, cool re eioffice16:06
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qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: I think it's only a viewer...16:08
Stskeepsstill bloody useful16:08
Stskeepssee http://www.evermoresw.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=6216:09
Stskeepsmer should get in bed with those s101 guys really :P think there'd be a quite nice synergy16:10
qwerty12_N810Interesting that they don't list the N8x0 (OK, S101) as supported16:10
* Stskeeps ponders idly what flashplayer deb is16:11
qwerty12_N810Flash Player 716:11
qwerty12_N810(according to a string, anyway...)16:11
Stskeepsah16:12
qwerty12_N810I was hoping that it would say 10 =)16:12
Stskeepsyeah, that'd be leet :P16:13
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Macermy touchbook shipped! and it has a beta of google OS on it! i guess that's what always innovating is using!16:45
Stskeepsgoogle OS? :P16:46
Stskeepsthat's interesting16:46
JaffaMacer: What did they call it exactly?16:46
MacerStskeeps: lol. i'm just joking. just wanted to get vaporumor out there16:46
JaffaAh16:46
StskeepsMacer: foo16:46
Stskeeps:P16:46
Macerhaha16:46
Macersorry16:46
* Jaffa thought you might have misread gOS ;-)16:46
Maceri could have rolled with it16:46
Macer:)16:46
Macermaybe rendered a bunch of fake pics16:46
StskeepsMacer: did it ship though?16:46
Stskeeps:P16:46
Macernaw.. i'm still waiting lol16:47
Macersupposed to either this week or next16:47
Macerso (crossed fingers)16:47
Maceri am anxiosu to get a hold of it16:47
Macerthis aspireone is driving me nuts on battery life16:47
MacerStskeeps: did you preorder oen?16:47
Stskeepsnop16:47
Macergoing to order one when you realize it's not fake? :)16:48
Stskeepsi'm waiting with gadget purchases until i get a job after moving to poland16:48
Stskeepsso we'll see where i end up16:48
Maceroh yeah. you're moving to the badwater poland :)16:48
Macerso you are moving blind huh?16:48
Macerno job lined up?16:48
Macerthat's balsy. she must be very pretty haha16:48
Macerballsy16:49
Macerthere are some gorgeous polish women here in chicago. amazign how some of them keep their figure after having children but they manage to do it :)16:49
StskeepsMacer: well, i have opportunities but nothing manifested yet, but i do have about 10-20 days of holiday and savings so16:50
Maceryeah but 20 days is not much to gamble on finding a new good paying job in the middle of recessed poland ;)16:50
Luke-Jrwhy moving to poland?16:51
StskeepsMacer: also, we have no rent16:51
Stskeepsso that helps a lot16:51
Maceri mean you don't really think economic oppurtunity when you think Poland16:51
Stskeepstax's good16:51
Stskeeps:P16:51
Maceryeah i'm sure it does16:51
Macerwell. you don't really need to be a computer person16:52
Maceri'm sure poland has plenty of blue collar jobs16:52
StskeepsLuke-Jr: personal reasons mostly - i have an education where i can work whereever and my fiancee and soon to be wife (15 aug!) spent more time in .dk to be with me, so it's my time to repay the favour16:52
Maceryou can always mix cement or work the fields ;)16:53
Luke-JrStskeeps: i c..16:53
Luke-JrI need to find a place with sane government16:53
Stskeepsgreenland? :P16:53
Macerafter i graduated high school i worked at a chemical plant for 3 years16:53
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Macerit paid very well believe it or not.. but it was hard work16:54
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* Stskeeps ponders if he has some less noisy 2.5" hds in the basement16:54
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gomiamhello everyone :P16:54
Macernoisy 2.5" drives? :)16:54
Macerthat's kind of odd isn't it?16:55
gomiamis anybody able to use Google Maps with Maemo Mapper?16:55
ShadowJKdidn't someone find a kilo of drugs in the greenland prime minister's home? :>16:55
Maceri guess my older ibm thinkpad had a pretty loud drive16:55
StskeepsMacer: yeah.. i have a old ibm hd in the laptop16:55
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MacerStskeeps: haha16:55
StskeepsShadowJK: do you blame him?16:55
Stskeeps:P16:55
gomiamMacer: not really. Current 2.5" drives will click while working. It's even in the manual.16:55
ShadowJK<cut poor joke about having to put up with you danes>16:55
ShadowJKcue*16:55
Macergomiam: the ibm drive did more of a clunk than a click16:55
gomiamMacer: oh, that might be something else :D16:56
Macerno.. it worked16:56
Maceri still have it believe it or not16:56
ShadowJKIn soviet russia, you clunk the drive16:56
gomiamgood.16:56
MacerShadowJK: haha16:56
Macergomiam: i horde stuff like that :) i never throw hardware out16:56
gomiamShadowJK: in Soviet Russia, the clunk drives!16:56
gomiam:P16:56
Macerexcept old crt monitors just so i can slowly wipe out hong kong16:56
ShadowJKyou win :-)16:56
ShadowJKslowly wipe out hong kong?16:57
Stskeepsglobal warming?16:57
MacerShadowJK: lol16:57
MacerStskeeps: no.. "recycling"16:57
gomiamanyway, back to my question. Does anybody use Google Maps data for Maemo Mapper?16:57
Macergomiam: i don't sorry16:57
ShadowJKI thought google maps data didn't work16:57
Macercan you even use google maps?16:57
gomiamShadowJK: it used to work, but it doesn't any more, it seems16:57
Maceri thought it was against the lic16:57
gomiam(at least as far as I have tested)16:58
ShadowJKI would suspect google blocked it pretty soon?16:58
gomiamI would need to tcpdump a bit more date to be sure :)16:58
Macerheh16:58
Macergoogle won't even let android download the damn maps16:58
gomiamShadowJK: not too soon... I think it still worked in spring.16:58
Maceri was driving to cleveland and when i hit the boonies i was just a dot in the middle of nothingness on my g116:58
gomiamnot that I'm too worried, I can always fallback on Open Street16:58
Macerthank god it had a compass16:58
Stskeepsgomiam: go see talk.maemo.org threads16:58
ShadowJKMacer, did you still have data connectivity..16:59
Maceri don't know how the iphone 3g guys did it without a compass16:59
* Macer grins16:59
Stskeepsthere's probably someone with same issue16:59
MacerShadowJK: no16:59
Maceri lost it.. because i was in the middle of nowhere16:59
gomiamStskeeps: will do... though the last time I checked there was no easy URL to drop on Maemo Mapper ;)16:59
Maceri had to drive like 40 miles before it picked up a gprs data signal from god only knows where16:59
Macera secret military base in the middle of indiana?16:59
ShadowJKMacer, so the maps were blocked by the failure of your operator's coverage? :)16:59
MacerShadowJK: yes17:00
Macerheh17:00
ShadowJKrather than google17:00
gomiamanyway, I must go see some Roman ruins in a bit. Thanks for taking the time to talk it over :)17:00
Macerbut then i asked "why doesn't google maps just download the route so you don't need a data connection all the time?"17:00
gomiamhave a nice afternoon (or morning or night, choose the one that applies)17:00
gomiam:P17:00
Macerand someone told me it was against the lic17:00
ShadowJKgoogle maps on symbian also doesn't download in advance, but if you open it and scroll along your route it might stay in ram :)17:01
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Maceryeah17:01
Macerthat crap sucks17:01
Macerand it doesn't adjust to speed either17:01
Maceri was goign like 90mph and it kept scrolling17:01
Macerbecause by default it gives you like 1 block at a time or something equally retarded but it isn't much17:01
Maceri had to zoom out in the middle of driving17:01
Maceri expected the zoom to adjust for speed unless you were nearing a turn or something17:02
crashanddiethose are starting to be some pretty funky algorithms17:03
ShadowJKNokia maps works better in this regard :)17:03
Macer segment 14: CRC mismatch E173D4E5 != B4DC1CED17:05
Maceri always wondered.. if it knows what it's supposed to be why can't it just change it?17:05
Macer:)17:05
ShadowJKit knows what the sum is supposed to be, but it doesn't know what the individual numbers that make up the sum are supposed to be17:06
ShadowJKtherefore, if the sum is wrong, it concludes that the individual components of it must have an error17:06
Macerbut there are only so many combonations of numbers that can result in the sum17:07
Macercombinations.. i'm eating combos :)17:07
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Macerwaiting for my son to wake up17:08
Macerlittle guy has been sleeping forever17:08
Maceri should wake him up and see how he likes it17:08
Macerhahah17:08
Macerwake up.. wake up.... hello? hello? wake up?? you wake up? let's play... LET'S PLAY!!!17:08
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derfMacer: If you've got a 32-bit checksum, then you can make any byte sequence have the same checksum by changing just 4 bytes. Any 4 bytes.17:08
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derfSo if you've got 8 bytes, that's already 4 billion combinations that have the same checksum.17:09
crashanddie[1294338.852927] hald[17538]: segfault at b7a85008 ip b7d81078 sp bfa2434c error 4 in libc-2.9.so[b7d0a000+15c000]17:09
crashanddiewoops17:09
derfIf you've got a block of any appreciable size, there's more possibilities than protons in the universe.17:10
Macerlol!17:10
Macerso you're saying a repair off of a crc wouldn't be practical through trial and error? :)17:10
derfSure it would. You'd just need a much, much larger CRC.17:10
RST38hmoo all17:11
Macerderf: sounds like the perpetual machine17:14
Macertrying to get more output than input17:14
derfNo, by adding more bits to the CRC, you're adding more input.17:15
Macerat the cost of output17:15
Macerwhat is the point of having a 5G CRC for a 1MB file? :)17:15
derfYou'd be able to correct a lot of errors.17:15
Macerlol!17:16
derfIncluding errors in the CRC itself.17:16
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Maceri'm using the google gears stuff17:16
Macerjust to see what it looks like :)17:16
derfI mean, this is basically what NASA does for interplanetary communication.17:16
derfThey use codes with a _lot_ of redundancy built in, because the error rate is high.17:16
Macerok.. that is a very specialized reason to do so but i get your point ;)17:17
derfBut this is also what RAID arrays do in configurations with redundancy.17:18
ShadowJKEDGE just sends error codes until receiver says it has enough to reconstruct message :-)17:18
derfE.g., RAID5 uses an entire disk's worth of checksums.17:18
ShadowJKCRC is very inefficient for actually correcting errors though, but it's fast for detecting errors17:19
Macerhm17:25
Macerterminal theme for gmail is neat17:26
Macerreminds me of a bbs17:26
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Macerhm17:29
Macerjust noticed that google lets you rent more storage space17:30
Macerwith the most being 400G for $500/yr17:30
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Macerhm17:55
rkirti~burn cpu-hogging build tools :-(17:55
* infobot pours gasoline all over cpu-hogging build tools :-(, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze17:55
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Macerdon't do that18:00
Macersend them to your local recycling center18:00
Macerthey will see to it chinese slave labor outside of hong kong can do something with it18:00
rkirtican't do that. It kills my cpu with both cores on 100% usage , but I need to work with it nonetheless18:02
Luke-Jrfail18:02
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crashanddieGeneral question: if I mount my SD card in my blackberry under Linux, then pump some media on it, and upon disconnect of the USB cable to the phone, my handset says "Invalid Memory Card", followed by impossibility to mount under Linux (no partitions), impossibility to format from either Linux or handset18:07
crashanddieI'd say the card is toast, anyone agree with that standpoint?18:07
Stskeepsdo you remember to unmount it properly under linux? :P18:07
crashanddiesure18:07
Stskeepscompletely? ubuntu mounts it automatically for me, which is a pain :P18:08
crashanddiesudo umount /dev/sdc*18:08
crashanddieusually takes care of it18:08
Stskeeps*nod*18:08
ShadowJKcrashanddie, dd if=/dev/sdc | sha1sum18:09
ShadowJKdo it twice, does it complete without error, does it produce same result?18:09
ShadowJKnext step woudl be to write an image and then compare the checksums :-)18:09
ShadowJKbut that's a destructive test18:09
crashanddiedd: opening `/dev/sdc': No medium found18:09
crashanddieupon USB connection it says: [ 1290.684759] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdc] Attached SCSI removable disk18:10
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crashanddielooks like it sees the reader but no card18:12
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crashanddieShadowJK, any further ideas?18:13
GAN800Test it with 220.18:16
crashanddie220?18:16
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crashanddievolts?18:16
GAN800Why not?18:17
ShadowJKcrashanddie, well that looks properly broken18:17
ShadowJKgot any other readers?18:17
crashanddiewell18:17
crashanddieshort answer: no18:17
crashanddielong answer: corporate IP I can't talk about18:18
ShadowJKwell you know, trying different card in reader, trying different readers with card is basic troubleshooting process18:19
crashanddieI know18:19
crashanddiewill have to go to the office to get other cards18:20
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ShadowJKtry different reader too18:22
crashanddiewill have to nick a couple of other blackberries18:23
amr-anyone here using doneit?18:24
ShadowJKand something else than a blackberry..18:24
crashanddiecan't say I've doneit18:24
amr-laff18:24
amr-it says it needs pygtk & glade18:25
amr-which im struggling to find18:25
crashanddieShadowJK, that might be trickier18:25
crashanddieanyway, if I don't speak to you guys anymore, I'm off to the Ukraine for a few demos/deployments and then off for 2 weeks of holidays :D18:25
amr-well this is annoying18:25
crashanddieSo take care, and have fun!18:25
amr-i have to have the browser open and doing something18:25
amr-so that i can use ssh18:25
amr-is this a known problem/issue or something?18:26
ShadowJKi don't need that18:26
amr-my idle time for "wlan" is set to unlimited18:26
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amr-hmm18:26
ShadowJKand automatically connect?18:26
amr-this is rather RATHER annoying18:27
amr-uh, i dunno18:27
amr-it's connected18:27
amr-should i change the search interval?18:27
ShadowJKis this trying to ssh into tablet?18:27
amr-yes18:27
ShadowJKnot out from tablet?18:27
ShadowJKah18:27
amr-i'm ssh'd into the tablet right now18:27
amr-however, no data gets transferred unless im using the internet on the tablet somehow18:27
ShadowJKI would guess that lowering the beacon interval on your AP would help18:28
amr-it's always done this. it'll drop the connection after a while18:28
amr-oh? i'll give that a shot18:28
ShadowJKsince it's probably wifi powersaving causing tablet to appear absent for too long at a time or your computer giving up too soon18:28
ShadowJKor you could try disable powersaving on the tablet, I guess. It's in advanced when you edit a connection (but affects all connections)18:28
amr-i'll have a look at that now18:29
amr-thanks18:29
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amr-beacon interval is set to 100ms18:29
amr-aha, powersaving is on maximum18:30
amr-i wonder how much of an effect this will have on my battery18:30
ShadowJKI think I have 40ms18:30
ShadowJKthe effect is huge.18:30
amr-really? :x18:31
ShadowJKI think idletime goes from being measured in days to being measured in hours18:31
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amr_i forgot i was on wireless to18:31
amr_hah18:31
ShadowJK<ShadowJK> the effect is huge.18:32
ShadowJK<amr-> really? :x18:32
ShadowJK<ShadowJK> I think idletime goes from being measured in days to being measured in hours18:32
ShadowJKthough I haven't tested :)18:32
amr_ouch18:32
amr_well it's struggling to connect atm18:32
amr_:S18:32
amr_reconnecting...18:32
amr_still connecting.18:33
amr_aha18:33
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amr_battery is at 79% atm18:33
amr_i'll see how long this lastas me18:33
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amrknow of any decent getting started with python+gtk guides for maemo?18:35
amri've found the one on pymaemo.garage.org18:35
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* GAN800 wonders if it's the public library system that has confused people on the definition of non-fiction. . . .18:41
RST38hprobably not18:42
lbtreligion18:42
RST38hblame the authors18:42
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GAN800RST38h, has nothing at all to do with authors.18:47
GAN800lbt, nor that.18:47
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GAN800By 'confusion', I mean asking for the 'non-fiction section' in a store with more than 500k books.18:48
* lbt wonders how many people who use libraries are actually confused18:48
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napsyHello. Where can I get the openstreet database for maemo mapper on the net? Because mapper is downloading the levels too slowly.18:49
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RST38hGAN: Oh, I meant somewhat different thing.18:54
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GAN800RST38h, right.18:58
GAN800A lot of people seem to mean biographies when they say 'non-fiction', but car repair manuals also qualify under the proper definition.18:58
locutusthats argueable18:59
GAN800Unless you buy car manuals for imaginary cars, no.19:01
* lbt agrees with locutus... and wonders if GAN has ever read a car manual whilst looking at a real car. The one being written about often sounds imaginary.19:07
GAN800Less arguable, but just as difficult to point to directly to would be humor or history.19:09
GAN800lbt, yes, I have, but it's besides the point here.19:09
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amrdeveloping with python over ssh is quite fun19:13
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RST38hGAN: Then I guess we have a case similar to the AM/FM thing19:16
RST38hGAN: Where the actual difference is the wavelength, not the modulation (both FM and AM can be used at any wavelength)19:17
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amrbladdyy hell19:36
amrwith power saving off this thing is getting rather warm19:36
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ShadowJKamr, that should tell you the battery wont last very long :-)19:56
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amrheh20:12
amri thought that20:12
amrso i plugged it in20:12
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esaym153is there an esc key on the n810 keyboard?20:15
Stskeepsyeah, back button on the top20:15
esaym153Stskeeps: top right?20:15
RST38hthe one with the back arrow20:15
amrthat's backspace isn't it?20:16
Stskeepsnah20:16
Stskeepsthat's esc20:16
amroic20:16
Stskeepsthe one on the lcd part20:16
amrohhhh20:16
amri meant on the keyboard heh20:16
esaym153Stskeeps: so it has an esc key but no backspace?20:16
amrnot below app switcher20:16
amresaym153, he means the hardware key20:16
esaym153hmm20:16
amron the front of the tablet, under the app switcher20:16
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esaym153http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/10/nokia-n810-hands-on-02.jpg20:17
esaym153the curled arrow?20:17
amryep20:17
esaym153ok cool, I guess I can use vim then...20:18
esaym153how does the cpu on the n810 compare with a 350mhz pentium 2?20:22
esaym153better/worse? same?20:22
Stskeepsuses less power obviously20:22
esaym153well I am talking about performance20:22
amri have absolutely no idea20:23
esaym153I am building an app and plan on getting a n81020:23
amrsorry20:23
esaym153trying to figure out how bloated I can make it ....20:23
amrheh20:23
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esaym153runs fine on the 350mhz pentium II ...20:23
slonopotamusesaym153, 400mhz of n800 cpu is ~10 times slower than my desktop athlon 64 3000+20:23
esaym153well...that is not really a fair compare...20:24
Stskeepsesaym153: which kind of app really?20:24
esaym153app for taking notes20:25
esaym153it is pretty simple20:25
esaym153but I want it to be quick20:25
slonopotamusesaym153, it allows me to know how long things'll take.20:25
Stskeepsesaym153: ah - seen xournal?20:25
esaym153no...20:25
esaym153Stskeeps: looks like it is for handwriting stuff?20:26
Stskeepsfor instance, or text20:26
Macerok20:27
Macerwell... let me see about this new cable modem comcast just gave me20:27
Macerlol20:27
Macerand it's screeching eXtreme speeds20:28
Macer(extreme with a capital X)20:28
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esaym153bbl20:29
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ProteousXTREEEEEEMMMMMM!!!!!111!!1eleven20:35
Macerlol20:35
Macerdamn upstream sustains like 630K/s20:35
Macerthat's not too bad.. it's more than twice as fast than it was goign :)20:36
Macerdownstream seems the same though20:36
Macerbut then again maybe i'm just trying to download from places that can't go 22mbit to 1 client?20:36
Proteousheh20:36
Macerlet me try the speakeasy test or something20:38
|thunderhey guys, this is a general linux question. not maemo, although I have a n800 :). Do you know of a way to force an oss app "/dev/dsp" to use alsa ?20:38
Proteoustrick question20:38
Macerheh20:39
Proteousof course any sound question on linux is a trick questino20:39
Proteouswe won't fall for it20:39
Proteousyou'll have to try somewhere else20:39
Macerdoesn't alsa have /dev/dsp support?20:39
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Macerlike i vaguely remember there being a setting for it in the kernel20:39
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doc|homeyeah, oss something or other?20:39
doc|homeer, ignore me20:39
* doc|home goes back into his corner20:39
Macer|thunder: but as far as getting "an oss app"20:40
Maceryou might have better luck building the app with alsa support or finding a bin with alsa support or just finding a new app altogether20:40
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* RST38h cackles evilly looking at http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/06/23/nokia_97_9.jpg20:43
RST38hCan you imagine they screwed it up THIS bad?20:43
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amrthat's just... terrible20:43
Macerwell20:44
Macerspeedtest.net has me at 30mbit down and 9.5mbit up20:44
Macerthose sound like burst speeds20:44
Macerheh20:44
slonopotamus|thunder, aoss?20:44
GAN800Works on my 580020:44
RST38h5800 does not have this...mm...problem20:45
Macerlol20:45
Macerthe comcast cable modem isntaller guy20:45
Macersat down at my opensolaris desktop20:45
Macerand asked "is this ubuntu?20:45
Macerand there was this giant opensolaris background with the symbol and "OPENSOLARIS" in giant letters20:45
Macer:)20:45
RST38hMacer: Wow!20:45
Macergod help me i had to bite my lip from laughing.. i just told him yes20:46
Macerhaha20:46
Proteouslol20:46
Macerbecause all gnome is ubuntu20:46
RST38hMacer: They learned "Ubuntu"! When I called a couple of years ago, it went like that: "Do you have Windows?" -- "no." -- "Do you have a Mac then?" -- no. -- "We do not support Linux" -- "I do not have Linux" -- SCRIPT ABORTED, FORWARDING TO THE NEXT LEVEL OF SUPPORT20:47
Maceri mean it wasn't like a little opensolaris in the corner.. it was this huge bannerlike bold GIANT letters stretching across the screen.. and i even told him "it's opensolaris" .. and i guess he didn't understand me and was like "ubuntu is nice"20:47
Macer:)20:47
Macerdeep inside my brain the mean side was screaming "AND THIS IS WHY YOU INSTALL FUCKING MODEMS!"20:47
Macerhaha20:47
RST38hWhy do they need a special guy to install modems, anyway?20:47
amrsomeone buy my nokia 6210 navigator20:47
amri really don't like it20:47
amrthe gps is rather good tho20:48
MacerRST38h: i don't know20:48
Maceri could have plugged it in myself20:48
Maceri guess it's a business line thing20:48
RST38hProbably20:48
Macerlike the fact that i get a customer rep in 2 seconds20:48
Macerthat's nice20:48
Macerworth the extra money just for that :)20:48
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RST38hHow much extra though?20:48
Macerand it's an actual ... like.. no kidding.. AMERICAN tech support agent20:48
Macerno accent or anything :)20:48
Maceri pay 89/month20:49
Macerfor 22/520:49
* RST38h cares not about an accent, but hates dealing with human voice menus for an hour20:49
Macerbut had to lease for 24 months20:49
MacerRST38h: tehre are 3 ;)20:49
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Macer"english/spanish"20:49
Macer"tech/billing"20:49
Macerenter phone number20:49
RST38hSo it is like +$40?20:49
Macerrep20:49
Macerit's $89/month for the internets20:50
Proteousthe sad thing is , he gets a nasty letter when he downloads more then 50MB in a month20:50
MacerProteous: no20:50
Macerthat's why i got it ;)20:50
Proteous:P20:50
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Maceri got taht india indian call20:50
Macerfrom some guy telling me that unlimited use of the internet did not mean unlimited use of the bandwidth20:50
Macerfor the life of me i just couldn't understand the difference20:50
Proteousheh20:50
glassthats why they make indians do the calls20:50
Macerso i just got a business line because there aren't any limits20:50
* RST38h remembers a Washpost article about Indians calling US credit card holders to make them pay back the debt20:51
Proteousthey give you a 20mb connection but you can't use more then 768k at any one time20:51
Macerglass: i wasn't sure if he was actually trying to get me to understand their policy.. or to release my chakra20:51
glassbecause the indian guy calling doesn't understand the difference either20:51
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glassso he's a good negotiator20:51
Macerby telling me deep philosophical differences between things of the same thing20:51
RST38hglass: The indian guy is following the script20:51
Macer:)20:51
Proteousthey are totaly spelled different20:51
glassRST38h: people they call to don't follow a script20:51
MacerProteous: haha.. that's a res line20:51
Macerlol20:51
RST38hglass: Your ultimate goal is to make him reach a bullet in that script titled "Forward to upper level support"20:52
Macerlike i said.. that's why i got rid of it :)20:52
Macerand got the business line and just pay the extra $20:52
Proteous"I have been calling to you today so to speak with about bandwidth usages."20:52
RST38hglass: Yes, that is the funniest thing20:52
Maceri can have servers on mine ;)20:52
Macerit's wide open with 2 static IPs20:52
Macerand a rdns20:52
Macerheh20:52
RST38hglass: Imagine one of these Indians, making $500/month, calling Americans and pestering them to pay off their credit card debts20:52
glassRST38h: look, i'm fixing code from 3 indians right now20:53
RST38hglass: Imagine what it does to the Indians, too, that is the most interesting part =)20:53
glassRST38h: i know what it does, i smoke cigs with the indians that work here in our corp..20:53
glassthey're so fucking lost in finland20:53
RST38hglass: Yes, but those guys live in India20:54
glassbut so are many finnish people so it's not that big of a deal20:54
glassRST38h: i was the first guy to talk to this bunch of indians20:54
glassRST38h: when they came over20:54
Macerhahahahah20:54
RST38hglass: Ah, possibilities boggle the mind =)20:54
glassgot me some hand rolled indian cheapo cheaapo cheap cigs a lot for free20:54
glass(they taste nice sometimes..)20:55
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glassbut are really shit20:55
glasscheaper than factory cigs in india though20:55
glassso that tells a lot about the place20:55
glasscheaper to put a guy to roll cigs for their whole life than to invent a cig rolling machine20:56
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RST38hglass: An Indian friend once said that at large factories a couple of people get stampeded to death every week when everyone boards the buses at the end of a workday20:57
Macerdamn wonder woman is hot in justice league20:57
Macerlol20:57
glassRST38h: well depends on factory20:57
RST38hglass: It is considered normal though20:57
glassRST38h: if it's producing anything from 20th century then they probably don't get killed.. as they can read20:57
glassRST38h: only 11% has papers of identification.. came up on news last week20:58
RST38hglass: Ah, that was the piece about a nation-wide ID20:58
RST38hThe one with cute colored squares all over?20:58
glassdunno, i don't remember what the article looked like20:58
glasshmm20:59
glassyeah20:59
glassthat20:59
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glassbut imagine elections in a country with only 11% of people registered20:59
RST38hglass: I do not think they will be any better than elections in some countries with 100% of people registered21:00
Luke-Jrlet's abolish elections ;)21:00
doc|homemob rule for the lose :(21:00
doc|homedemocracy means people have to understand stuff, people don't so we end up with whatever moron the general population like the best (e.g. Obama/Bush)21:01
RST38hdoc: Actually, results seem to show that US population is far from being morons21:02
ProteousMy favorite elections are the ones where they get 135% voter turnout21:02
doc|homeRST38h: I'm not talking about solely the US.21:02
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doc|homethose are just obvious examples of idiots getting elected21:02
RST38hdoc: Lots of other places too21:02
RST38hdoc: Starting with the same Iran, if you want an extreme example21:03
doc|homeRST38h: then I think we might differ on what defines "morons" :)21:03
doc|homeRST38h: sure21:03
ProteousMORANS!!21:03
doc|homeProteous: hehe, Moran is a last name in Ireland :)21:03
Proteousheh21:03
Proteousit's also an internet meme, for people misspelling it when try to call other people one21:04
doc|homeaye21:04
RST38hProteous: Yea, that is what morons call other people on the Net21:04
Proteousheh21:04
doc|homesadly, at the end of the day, 60% of people making the wrong decision still binds the rest of us to the decisions the half-wit they elect makes21:04
doc|homealthough that's just of the voting population, which is about 50% of the entire population on a good day in most countries. So... 30% of the population make the rules21:06
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Macerwow21:07
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GeneralAntillesIdiot Engadget21:23
GeneralAntillesN77021:23
Luke-Jr?21:23
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.engadget.com/2009/07/18/nokia-files-for-cseries-trademark-but-whats-it-for/21:24
GeneralAntillesEngadget is hilariously biased against Nokia.21:24
Luke-Jrhaha21:25
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Macerso maybe the "C" stands for "computer." Of course, it could also stand for "crap," so we've just got to wait and see what becomes of this little moniker.21:31
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Macerany "publication" that has a story like that by one of its actual writers? :)21:32
Maceris like reading FHM21:32
Macerhaha21:32
Macertheir word is just blahblahblah.21:32
Maceri think a nokia netbook would be pretty awesome21:33
Macerheh21:33
Stskeepsi really don't see why they would go into that market though21:35
Stskeepsand why it makes sense from business pov :P21:35
Stskeepsexcept if they were arm, else it's nokia branding21:36
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, I'm betting they think they can do the ARM/Linux combo better.21:37
GeneralAntilles'course, the whole Intel partnership murks up that water a bit.21:37
Stskeepsnow, if it was hybrid x86 and ARM.. :P21:37
GeneralAntilles$$$$21:37
GeneralAntillesMaybe Intel's gearing up to manufacture ARM stuff again. ;)21:38
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RST38hGeneral: No.21:42
RST38hActually, Intel is still manufacturing some ARM stuff, just not consumer electronics chips21:42
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MacerCouldn't connect socket 49 to 255.255.255.255, port 4510721:54
Macerlol21:54
Macerhow awesome is that?21:54
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wazddamn, I can't feel my legs :(23:22
Stskeepsyou didn't escape the army?23:22
lcuk:( does your artist hand still work tho?23:22
wazdI had a 50km bike ride today :)23:23
lcuko_O23:23
RST38hehehe23:23
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wazdGizmodo quote: Normal mirrors reflect light back at a 90-degree angle23:26
wazdafter that stuff I can't take their materials seriously :)23:27
|thunderlol23:27
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RST38hwazd: http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/18/1658211/We-Were-Smarter-About-Copyright-Law-100-Years-Ago?from=rss23:30
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RST38hwazd: Read and weep for the world we have lost23:30
RST38hAnd will only get back if we sacrifice several million lawyers to the Tentacled One23:30
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esaymfellows, yes or no; should I buy the n810?23:33
Stskeepsif you can hang on a couple of months i think it'd be worth it23:34
Stskeepsunless you're going for the price level23:34
lbtin a couple of months the used price will be down23:34
lbtbuy now from someone here ;)23:35
esaymStskeeps: don't want to spend more than $20023:35
esaymon anything23:35
Stskeepsfair enough, then go for the n810.. the next device will probably be >200$23:36
esaymStskeeps: yea like $700...23:36
RST38hSts: If he hangs any longer, he won't be able to buy N800. Or N810 for this matter23:36
wazdesaym: next device will be much more advanced than the iPhone 3G S23:36
wazdesaym: how much will it cost do you think?23:36
RST38hAh by the way23:36
esaymwazd: I don't need advanced, I need some pda to put my note taking app on23:37
RST38hSpeaking of "advanced", http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/06/23/nokia_97_9.jpg23:37
wazdesaym: then n810 is the right choice :)23:37
wazdRST38h: wtf is that?)23:37
esaymhow long will nokia keep making the n810?23:37
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lbthaven't they stopped already?23:38
esaymlbt: you could still buy from their store a few days ago23:38
lbtah selling != making23:38
esaymhmm23:39
lbtdon't ask me23:39
esaymhmm23:39
lbtI don't keep up with that kind of thing :)23:39
Luke-Jresaym: no23:40
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esaymLuke-Jr: yes!23:41
Luke-Jr23:41
esaymI can't find anything better, or cheaper23:41
Luke-Jrhttp://cgi.ebay.com/SHARP-ZAURUS-SL-C860-PDA-POCKET-NETBOOK-ACCESSORIES_W0QQitemZ130318659677QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_comp_laptop?hash=item1e5798f05d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:2150|293:1|294:5023:41
Luke-Jr$6223:41
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Luke-Jrdo note he's false advertising, though23:44
Luke-Jrit has 128 MB SSD internal23:44
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esaymLuke-Jr: I don't know. I have looked at those before.  It still has a few days left plus I want wifi23:48
esaymit will probably end up going for $150 plus.  Might as well just fork out the cash for the n810 and get a truly superior product23:48
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esaymoh says it comes with wifi hmm23:48
esaymbut still, I bet it goes for over $15023:48
Luke-JrI highly doubt it23:48
Luke-Jrand it doesn't come with wifi23:48
Luke-Jrnot internal anyhow23:49
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esaymthat thing is 5 years old...23:49
Luke-Jresaym: indeed23:49
Luke-Jrbut if it's for typing, far superior to N81023:52
RST38hwazd: That is N97 virtual keyboard afaik23:52
RST38hwazd: + address book search facility23:53
wazdRST38h: eeek :)23:53
RST38hwazd: the weirdest part is, similar 5800 stuff is just fine23:54
wazdRST38h: it worked too well and they fixed it, it's obvious :)23:57

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