IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-07-06

MacerLuke-Jr: the stock email client seemed to work well00:00
Maceri usually used claws tho00:00
amrmy uni imap email works fine00:00
Luke-JrMacer: I couldn't get it to work00:00
amras does my gmail00:00
milhouseBP-4L in the N810 is 1500mAh - so smaller :( Typical decision by Nokia, gain on the one hand, lose on the other!00:01
milhouse(if true about the 5800)00:01
GAN800yeah, rumors, so who knows.00:01
johnxwell, if that's the design flaw in the rover then it's not too bad :)00:01
GAN800I can't imagine them being so space starved as to justify it.00:02
johnxGAN800, :)00:02
* GAN800 suspects the design flaw will be a phone that only really operates in landscape.00:02
milhouseLOL00:02
qwerty12_N810N-Gage2k900:02
johnxGAN800, probably for fremantle, yes00:02
Macerguess i'll watch lois and clark00:03
Macernever seenit00:03
* GAN800 fears Fremantle is going to be Maemo's Newton 10000:03
MacerGAN800: haha00:03
Macerof course it is :)00:03
GAN800Establish a platform stigma they'll never get past.00:03
johnxI think as long as all the fremantle devices run harmattan just fine, and as long as this "community supported gtk+" really shows up on harmattan00:04
milhouseI think Nokia are unsure about Symbian or Linux... Symbian seems to be going nowhere (even if there is the Symbian Foundation - Nokia seem to have unrealistic ideas about the open source community and what they can achieve) so Linux might be the new hope for Linux... which means Maemo... and on the basis of the previous releases I think thats a very big risk00:04
johnxif either of those fail to appear, than yeah, it could be painful for them00:04
johnxI'm just starting to get tired of them moving the goal posts *sigh*00:05
milhouseI went and took a look at the Symbian Foundation web site the other day - you have to register because it's in "Beta" mode... has been in "Beta" mode since at least March if not before... sounds terribly familiar.00:06
wazdmilhouse: gmail is in beta since 1864 :)00:06
milhouseTrue, but that's worth registering for! :)00:06
milhouseSerious question: What is the opinion of Internet Tablet Talk now that it has moved to Maemo? I have to admit I can't stand it00:07
Luke-Jrsame00:07
johnxI can't stand the people on it constantly kvetching about it00:07
wazdany vBulletin wizards in here btw?)00:07
qwerty12_N810milhouse: still the same as ever, imho, internettablettalk.com still works and there's the classic skins00:08
milhouseIt's not the content but the look & feel - what was wrong with keeping a vBulletin layout? This mad doctrine to make everything look the same is ridiculous, didn't work so well for the Wiki, certainly doesn't work for the forum00:08
johnxthough the signal/noise ratio has dropped below the level I feel like dealing with :/00:08
milhouseqwerty: Ah, does it? I just get the horrible Maemo "theme"00:08
wazdI've made a small concept for t.m.o.lite, but I can't code00:08
wazdhttp://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0907/66/8bc722b64d7a.png00:08
johnxthat looks pretty close to the one they have actually00:09
qwerty12_N810milhouse: Sure, look at the bottom-left corner, there's a drop-down with "Classic Light" and "Classic Dark" - but I don't know if you're required to be logged in to change00:10
milhouseqwerty: That URL redirects to talk.maemo.org when clicking on the Forum link :(00:10
wazdwell, it shows unread topics and you can go to the last post right from the main page00:10
milhouseqwerty: Aha! You Sir are a lifesaver! :)00:10
wazdjohnx: current minimalistic theme does nothing00:10
milhouseJeez, they should make one of those the default and ditch the talk.maemo.org theme00:11
milhouseGAN: Maybe a nice simple one for the Brainstorm? :)00:11
milhouse"Make Classic Dark the default Talk theme"00:11
GAN800:(00:15
GAN800I like the t.m.o theme. and the wiki theme.00:16
GAN800milhouse, if you bring up the theme nonsense again I'll eviscerate you. :)00:16
milhousesob :(00:16
GAN800Just, fyi.00:16
milhouseOK ;)00:16
GAN800There's been more than enough idiocy surround THAT topic.00:16
milhouseAt least there is a way around it, so I'm happy - hadn't noticed it down the bottom of the page though00:17
GAN800The SNR on the whole community is pretty bad these days.00:17
milhouseHey, where would Maemo be if we didn't spend all our time moaning about the web site?00:17
milhouseI mean, that is THE most important thing at the end of the day00:17
milhouse:)00:17
GAN800milhouse, the theme options have been there since 2005. ;)00:18
milhouseYes, but I hadn't noticed them on the new Maemo version - I didn't even think to look, assuming it was one theme and that was it!00:18
wazdmilhouse: I don't spend time moaning bout themes cause it's useless :)00:18
GAN800It's a pretty theme if you give it a chance.00:19
milhouseCareful or you'll be eviscerated!00:19
milhouseGAN: I'll have to disagree with you, mainly because the black text in the white "bubbles" is too big and it just doesn't "feel" like a forum00:20
milhousebut as there's an option to change it, that's fine with me00:20
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wazdall this orange stuff annoys me so much, but I got used to it after some time00:21
milhouseThank god I'm not a Catholic or I might be offended :)00:21
milhouseToo much Orange!00:21
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Luke-Jrmilhouse: …00:22
milhouseAll I see is a little square...00:22
GAN800milhouse, by the way, the Summit's in October. Plan for it. :P00:23
milhouseOK - what date? I'm in Greece for a wedding 9th to 15th00:23
milhouseNever mind, the wedding is in September!00:24
GAN800Weekend of the 11th00:25
wazdVDVsx: ping?00:26
VDVsxpong00:26
wazdoh :)00:26
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Macerlois and clark isn't that good00:37
Macerlet me try out deadwood00:38
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MacerLuke-Jr: you still around?00:47
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Luke-Jrno00:51
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MacerLuke-Jr: that gdium hasn't been released yet?00:58
Maceri'm looking for a place to buy one00:59
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ShadowJKit's released01:07
ShadowJKbut i havent seen anywhere online to get it01:07
ShadowJKgdium is kinda odd anyway01:08
ShadowJKand the other one is kinda meh01:08
Luke-JrMacer: afaik, you can only get it via OLPH01:08
Macerwell01:09
MacerThis item has not yet been released.01:09
Maceramazon says it hasn't been released yet.. BUT.. i don't think i want it because of that gkey shit01:09
Macerit boots off usb and uses it as its os01:09
Macerif they used esata instead it would be worth it01:09
Macerbut not a usb2 drive for booting/os01:09
ShadowJKthey have a gallery page with pcitures of it being sold in belgium or something...01:09
Luke-Jrhrm01:09
Luke-JrMacer: build one with eSATA plz01:09
ShadowJKesata vs usb2 isn't going to be much of a difference for OS use on a slow ssd :)01:10
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Luke-JrShadowJK: USB eats CPU time01:12
Luke-JreSATA, dunno, hope not01:12
Luke-Jrbut SATA is kinda suspicious to me because of that01:13
Luke-JrPATA had DMA.. what does SATA have equivalent?01:13
Luke-Jror does it just presume CPU time to waste?01:13
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ShadowJKthe only reason "dma" was mentioned in context of pata is because there was a time long ago when computers had real isa busses and ata had no dma01:14
ShadowJKsata has pio and dma and the driver uses a mix dependig on what it's doing01:15
ShadowJKand controller capabilities vary01:15
ShadowJKanyway, for application responsiveness the ssd/gkey is going to be the bottleneck, not its transfer bus even if it sat on usb1.1 :)01:17
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Luke-JrShadowJK: applications run in memory, not disk01:18
ShadowJKyes but the OS does ondemand pagein p01:20
ShadowJKif you've got huge amounts of ram you could just read in your apps sequentially01:21
ShadowJKand all would be good01:21
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ShadowJKbut in practice load times are a bunch of random I/O01:21
ShadowJKinterleaved with a few small random writes01:22
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tomaterrhas any1 dealt with nokia rma stuff before?01:23
ShadowJKthere are about 2 SSD models in existence that isn't slower at that than harddrives, and the situation is worse for memory cards and usb flash drives :)01:23
MacerLuke-Jr: heh01:24
Maceri wish i could01:24
Maceri was interested in that thing until i saw that crap :)01:24
Macermaybe i can find an arm netbook01:24
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ShadowJKtouchbook is probably only one with >128m ram01:25
Macertouchbook?01:25
Macerheh01:25
ShadowJKa search on tmo will find it01:26
MacerCortex-A9 is the multicore sister to Cortex-A8, and is likely to go into use around 2010.01:26
ShadowJKand google, too :)01:26
Maceryeah. i'm looking for an arm based netbook now01:26
ShadowJKI'm not as optimistic as 2010 :)01:27
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Macerheh01:28
Macerthat is an awkward looking netbook01:28
Macerthe touchbook that is01:28
ShadowJKeh? it looks like a laptop with detacheable screen?01:28
Maceryeah01:28
Macerthat's what i meant ;)01:29
Macerdoes the screen detatch?01:29
ShadowJKso if you dont remove the screen... it looks like a netbook?01:29
Maceri guess01:29
Macerheh01:29
ShadowJKand if you detach the screen you have a largeish tablet ;)01:30
Maceractually01:30
Macerit looks from their site that it flips behind the screen01:30
Macerand you use it like a tablet when not using the keyboard01:30
ShadowJKatleast at some point they said it was detacheable01:31
wazdnini maemo :)01:31
Macerlooks pretty awesome01:31
ShadowJK..and you can still order it without keyboard part I think01:31
Maceryeah it looks like it is.. i'm reading the info now01:31
Macerhttp://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/01:31
ShadowJKbut theyre not shipping yet anyway..01:31
Macerdamnit :)01:32
Maceriat uses fennec?01:32
Macerfail01:32
Macerheh01:32
Maceromap301:32
Macerit's a damn larger n81001:32
ShadowJKi think theyd be first netbook with cortex A8...so from that I extrapolate A9 netbooks appearing >1 year from A9 beagleboards which we havent seen yet :)01:33
Macerwith a detatchable keyboard and larger screen haha01:33
ShadowJKtwice the ram and 2x the cpu speed or something too01:33
Macerheh01:33
ShadowJK2-3x01:34
Macerwhat os is this supposed to run?01:34
MacerMER??01:34
Macerhehehe01:34
ShadowJKmer probablh already runs on it01:34
MacerQ. Which OS is installed on the Touch Book?01:34
MacerA. The Touch Book will ship with the Touch Book OS by default. Since the Touch Book has been designed with the help of a vibrant open source community that believes in diversity, you can install many other OSes, including Google Android, Ubuntu, Angstrom, and Windows CE. You are free to do whatever you want.01:34
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Maceri'm a little iffy about anything that says it will be using fennec :)01:35
Macermy experience with fennec on the n800 was a horrible one01:35
amrwhat apps do the cool kids recommend?01:35
amrim loving ines atm01:35
ShadowJKMacer you know touchbook is probably like N900 without the cellphone pieces and the tiny screen...01:36
MacerShadowJK: the internal usb sounds interesting01:36
MacerShadowJK: that's fine as long as the wifi can do adhoc01:36
Macerit would be nice to have openoffice for it also01:36
Macer:)01:36
ShadowJKhm, I wonder of n8x0 can adhoc01:37
Macerbut fennec scares me.. maybe i can install opensolaris on it when an arm port is a little more mature01:37
MacerShadowJK: it can01:37
Maceri've done it ;)01:37
Maceri used to adhoc tether my n800 to my g101:37
Macerworked like a champ01:37
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Macerhm. touchbooks are supposed to be shipping arleady01:38
Maceralready.. they say "this summer"01:38
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Macerthen again i suppose it is the middle of the summber.. it looks like an awesome machine though01:38
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ShadowJKthey have a page with current status somewhere01:38
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ShadowJKoriginally it said early summer..01:38
Macer$39901:38
Macerthat isn't bad at all01:39
ShadowJKyeah01:39
Macerif you get it with the keyboard it is 399.. 299 without01:39
Macerok. i'm sold :)01:39
Maceralthough i would like to run debian on it01:39
ShadowJKi'd be seriouslyh tempted if it wasnt in pandora-stage of the cycle :)01:39
Macerpandora-stage?01:39
ShadowJKvapourware, i wont believe it exists yet ;P01:40
Macer# Two internal batteries 6000 and 12000 mAh — it can be replaced with a screw driver01:40
Macerhaha01:41
Macerthat's different. i like the internal usb too01:41
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ShadowJK"We intend to start shipping the Touch Book next month, in July 2009. Our first batch of Touch Books is already in production."01:42
MacerShadowJK: yeah i agree with you01:42
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Macerbut once i see some being sold i will buy one :)01:43
Macerit looks like an amazing device after reading all the stuff over01:43
Maceri though my popcornhour was a scam01:43
Macerbut then i got it and was very happy with it01:43
Macer# OpenOffice 3.101:43
Macer# A full Adobe Flash solution01:43
Macerheh. it is like they read my mind :)01:44
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ShadowJK"solution"01:44
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ShadowJKthat probably means gnash :)01:45
* ShadowJK sleeps01:45
Macerhaha01:46
Macergood night01:46
Macerbut thanks for the info01:46
Maceronce it comes out and actually gets sold i am going to scoop one up01:47
Macerit looks pretty awesome.. at the very least better than an n80001:47
Macerif it can print then i'm sold for sure01:47
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MacerShadowJK: those pics in the gallery look fake02:06
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mavhcnokia android phone? weird02:34
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johnxhmm?02:35
mavhchttp://bit.ly/tola602:36
johnx"is understood to be"02:37
johnxciting no sources? I bet they just got confused and thought linux = linux and maemo = android02:38
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mavhcthis is a newspaper, not wikipedia, doesn't have to be reliable02:38
johnxfine, then I donn't trust it :)02:39
mavhcthey only have journalists, not experts02:39
johnxusually newspapers at least cite "someone close to nokia" or "a source familiar with nokia"02:39
mavhcapparently anyone can't edit it and fix mistakes02:39
mavhcmaybe it's a NOKLA phone02:40
johnxheh with the andro1d OS!02:40
mavhchalf gnews reports say it's a netbook, half a phone02:41
mavhcso apparently android is only free as in speech, not free as in culture02:43
johnxand it will run mac os 7 and have a forehead mounted haptic feedback device02:43
mavhcoddly no02:44
johnxit's hilarious how "analysts" and "journalists" don't get called out more often for making random shit up, doing no fact checking and saying things like "it's understood that ..."02:46
mavhcI only trust wikipedia02:48
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stelleghey guys, I'm working on getting 2.6.29 working on n77003:09
stellegI finally got video working03:09
stellegbut bme is dying03:10
man_in_shackawesome03:10
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stellegI'm getting the following on serial output:03:10
stellegStarting DSME... done.03:10
stellegWait for DSME socket to appear03:10
stellegdsme: reading bootreason from /proc/bootreason03:10
stellegdsme: bootreason was other than mbus, let's wait for the battery type03:10
stellegreceived state:903:10
stellegcal_read_block(bme): size zero, block not found?03:10
stellegDSME: process '/usr/bin/bme' with pid 444 exited with return value: 103:10
stellegDSME: '/usr/bin/bme' exited03:10
stelleg with RESET policy -> reset03:10
stellegThe received message wasn't state change indication03:10
stellegThe received message wasn't state change indication03:10
stellegreceived state:603:10
stellegThe system is going down NOW !!03:10
stellegSending SIGTERM to all processes.03:10
stellegTerminated03:10
stellegSending SIGKILL to all processes.03:10
stellegKilled03:10
man_in_shackstelleg, you really didn't need to paste all that03:11
stellegsorry03:11
stellegany ideas though?03:11
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stellegi read that the cal_read_block failing can be caused by corrupted cal, which can be fixed by reflashing initfs03:11
man_in_shackwouldn't you need a new initfs to go with your new kernel?03:14
stellegah I'll look into that03:17
stellegthanks03:17
man_in_shacknp03:17
stellegstill a bit new to this kernel hacking business03:17
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xnt14~seen b-man1604:26
infobotb-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 11h 16m 33s ago, saying: ':P'.04:26
xnt14argh! :P04:26
xnt14ah well04:26
* xnt14 is bored04:27
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Macerdamn i really want a touchbook04:50
Macerthat thing looks awesome04:50
Macerwish it was a little quicker though but i suppose 600MHz isn't too bad04:51
Macerfast enough to run openoffice04:51
Macerdifferent arch too so maybe the arch would go a little faster04:51
ShadowJKabout twice as fast04:53
ShadowJKper MHz04:53
ShadowJKbest case04:53
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rizetDoes anyone know of any SSH Tunnel Manager for Maemo?06:38
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freenoseis there aircrack for maemo?08:25
johnxyes and no08:25
johnxthe wifi driver doesn't support packet injection08:26
freenosesad08:28
johnxeh08:28
johnxthere's source for a newer version of the driver if someone cared enough to make it work08:29
freenosesource from nokia?08:29
johnxyes actually08:29
johnxthe newer driver isn't fully working, and I don't think it has an injection support08:30
freenosethe actual one is propietary?08:30
johnxbut if the hardware is capable, then the source is there08:30
johnxbut that's a lot of "if" :)08:30
johnxthe one used on the tablet is partially proprietary08:30
freenosewonders why nokia puts propietary stuff on linux tablet08:33
johnxcost08:33
johnxthey've been going a long way to making up for it08:34
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Guest4237_245 Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96  Fatal server error: Could not create server lock file: /tmp/.X2-lock08:34
Guest4237_245any clue? how to resolve?08:34
freenosearen't there opensource wifi chipses?08:35
johnxfreenose, yes08:35
johnxGuest4237_245, does /tmp/.X2-lock exist? who is it owned by?08:35
freenosewhy they don't use it? license?08:35
johnxcost08:36
Guest4237_245i dont know if he exist 1 minute08:36
AStormcost and energy efficiency08:36
johnxright, that too08:37
AStormthe prism54 on SPI with conexant firmware is a very nice design08:37
Guest4237_245no johnx, no .X2-lock in /temp08:37
RST38hTemperature: 8oC, RealFeel: 5oC08:37
Guest4237_245:(08:37
AStorm(or maybe it's not prism54, just something similar)08:37
RST38hWell, at least it is positive...08:37
johnxGuest4237_245, really? keep in mind it's a hidden file so it won't show up with a normal ls or in a GUI file manger. test if /tmp is writable by typing "touch /tmp/foo"08:39
RST38hMoo, johnx, AStorm08:39
johnxm00f RST38h08:39
johnxRST38h, soooo, is that "realfeel" temperature from windchill or icestorms or what?08:40
RST38hjohnx: It is from AccuWeather, probably windchill08:40
johnxheh. that's a pretty good breeze then08:40
RST38hIt also looks like the start of a nuclear winter08:41
johnxah, fun stuff08:41
johnxdoes that mean a decrease in the pollen count?08:41
RST38hOh yess08:41
johnxwoo! bring on the bombs!08:41
Guest4237_245what output its suppose give it08:42
RST38hAt least judging from the fact that I feel almost ok08:42
Guest4237_245i have nothing08:42
Guest4237_245its look yes08:42
johnxit's supposed to create a file called foo in /tmp08:42
johnxso, now try touch /tmp/.X2-lock08:42
johnxalso, if you tried running Xephyr as a different user and it didn't properly exit (ie, it crashed) it might have left a stale lock file08:43
johnxls -l /tmp/.X2-lock08:43
johnxto check :)08:43
Guest4237_245permission denied08:44
johnxfor which command?08:44
Guest4237_245 touch /tmp/.X2-lock08:44
johnxalright, it does exist then. ls -l /tmp/.X2-lock08:44
RST38hOk, off to work.08:45
Guest4237_245-r--r--r-- 1 root root 11 2009-07-06 01:27 /tmp/.X2-lock08:45
johnxhave fun RST38h :)08:45
johnxGuest4237_245, so delete it as root08:45
Guest4237_245i need reload term for launch again Xephir after that?08:45
Guest4237_245...08:46
johnxnah, just type sudo rm /tmp/.X2-lock08:46
johnxthen run Xephy08:46
johnxr08:46
Guest4237_245lol ok08:47
Guest4237_245fatal error 1 fix08:47
Guest4237_245TX a lot08:47
Guest4237_245but here 208:47
Guest4237_245lol08:47
Guest4237_245Fatal server error: Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running08:47
johnxare you running Xephyr as root right now?08:48
slonopotamuswoo08:48
johnxdid you run it twice?08:48
slonopotamusjohnx, hello08:48
johnxmorning slonopotamus08:48
Guest4237_245no i try in new terminal08:48
Guest4237_245not root08:48
Guest4237_245here08:49
slonopotamusjohnx, how on earth you compiled qemu statically? it dies during linking08:49
johnxps auxc | grep Xephyr08:49
Guest4237_245labaudio@ubuntu:~$ Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: server already running  Fatal server error: Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running08:49
johnxGuest4237_245, for more than 4 lines of pasting, try and use pastebin08:49
johnx~pastebin08:49
infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste08:49
slonopotamusthat was 1 line :P08:49
johnxinfobot, you should have used pastebin for that one08:50
slonopotamushaha)08:50
johnxslonopotamus, I had nothing but pain trying to do that. try getting it from someone else :)08:50
Guest4237_245~pastebin Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: server already running  Fatal server error: Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running08:50
Guest4237_245oups08:50
Guest4237_245ok08:50
slonopotamusjohnx, but your page says you did it somehow :)08:51
johnxGuest4237_245, anyways, I would run ps auxc | grep Xephyr and see if it has any running Xephyr08:51
johnxor try :3 instead of :2 on the command line08:51
johnxslonopotamus, uhm...which page? O_o;08:51
Guest4237_245http://pastebin.ca/148536708:51
Guest4237_245ok08:51
Guest4237_245ps auxc | grep Xephyr give me nothing08:52
johnxwell, then try switching :2 for :3 I guess08:52
slonopotamusjohnx, http://goron.de/~johns/n810/ copy ebuild, edit, update manifest and build qemu.08:53
johnxjohns != johnx08:53
johnx:)08:53
slonopotamus...08:53
johnxjohnb = johnx08:53
johnxalso, johnx = johnxx (sometimes)08:54
* slonopotamus haven't awoken completely08:54
johnxlet me check how obs does it08:54
Guest4237_245: 3 give me http://pastebin.com/m13a79d7408:54
johnxwow. well that's different08:55
johnxwhich linux distribution is this?08:55
slonopotamusi need johnsq, not johnx08:55
Guest4237_245ubu last one08:55
slonopotamuscouldn't you choose a bit more diferent nicknames? :)08:55
johnxheh, says you. know how many slonopotamuses I see on a daily basis? there's like 3 guys named that in my office! :P08:56
Guest4237_245nick labaudio08:56
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labaudiomaybe just uninstall and re install xephir08:57
johnxI bet that won't make a difference08:57
johnxsee if it runs without the -composite08:57
labaudiono08:58
johnxso remove "-extension Composite"08:58
labaudioi try before08:58
labaudiothat so sick08:58
labaudioevery morning that run08:58
labaudiobut since i install last sdk08:58
labaudionothing08:58
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johnxI assume you mean the beta sdk08:58
johnxso...keep in mind, it's a beta sdk08:59
labaudiono08:59
labaudiodiablo08:59
johnxanyways, Xephyr isn't part of the sdk08:59
johnxand it runs here with exactly the same command line08:59
johnxI would say make sure you install all the latest updates and reboot if they ask you too08:59
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labaudioi try something from other and comeback   in few09:00
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Maceram watching frost nixon09:03
Macerpretty good09:04
johnxam playing with my wii :)09:04
doc|homeit is good09:04
Macerdoc|home: never saw it09:04
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labaudio_852no09:04
Maceralmost makes you feel bad for nixon09:05
johnxlabaudio_852, no what?09:05
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Macerjohnx: mushroom men is ok09:05
Maceryou should try that out09:06
johnxright now I'm playing linux :D09:06
Macerlol09:06
Maceryou got a usb nic09:06
Macer?09:06
johnxyup yup09:06
johnxa cheapie too. cost me 300JPY used a while ago09:07
johnxjust needed a kernel module compiled for it09:07
Macerah09:07
Macerhow is it?09:07
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johnxseems to work pretty well, I'm trying to get X up in the latest ubuntu with the wiimote working09:08
johnxbut first there's a new kernel with support for 11MB more RAM! woo!09:08
Macerwoah!09:08
Macerheh09:08
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labaudioso is look when i remove a x16 from 800x480x16   all work but09:15
labaudioCould not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic, removing from list! unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed09:16
johnxthat's normal09:16
labaudioi try some more like 1024x780 and all work too09:17
labaudiobut now iam still here09:20
johnxyes, you are09:21
labaudiohere my last log09:24
labaudiohttp://pastebin.ca/148539009:24
johnxget rid of the \ and the return09:27
johnxdidn't you say it was working before?09:27
labaudioes09:27
labaudio*Y09:27
labaudioall work good before09:28
johnxjust 15 minutes ago you said that it ran09:28
labaudiothe xserver windows appears09:29
labaudiobut still error09:29
johnxthat "error" is normal09:29
johnxI get it here too09:29
johnxjust ignore it09:29
labaudiook so in fact all works09:29
johnxyes09:30
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labaudiobut what is exactly -extension finaly09:30
labaudiocause whith -extension its dont work09:30
labaudiobut its suppose to be09:30
johnxwhich guide did you read that says to use "-extension Composite"?09:31
labaudiohttp://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node4.html#SECTION0044400000000000000009:33
johnxwell, that answers your question about what "-extension Composite" does :)09:34
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labaudioits disable composite09:35
labaudiowow that mean a lot lol09:35
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labaudiobut in fact whit -extension   xwindows dont open09:36
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labaudiowhitout not too09:36
johnxout of curiosity, what is your native language?09:36
labaudiowhitout -ac and -extension its work09:36
Luke-Jrmy native language is C09:36
Luke-Jrkthx09:36
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labaudiofor me its french09:37
DracieMarshian09:37
johnxthe Composite extension provides support for partial transparency and stuff like that09:38
labaudiook09:41
labaudioevery go09:43
labaudioi shaft all this by bypassing just -ac09:43
labaudiocuriosly all work properly09:43
labaudiofinaly09:43
johnxjust a note: "shaft" might not mean what you think it means :)09:44
labaudioTx for tweaking tip johnx09:44
labaudioi know09:44
johnxsure, good luck :)09:44
labaudiobut iam french so i use play words09:44
labaudioahahah09:44
johnxright then09:44
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ptmanhave you seen this yet: http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2009/jul/06/nokia-mobile-internet-phones10:03
johnxI have this funny feeling that someone got their signals crossed10:04
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RST38hprobably bullshit10:06
RST38hbut who knows...10:07
johnxyeah, unless android will be running qt by that point10:07
RST38hno, no, there is a different scenario10:07
johnxnokia are bloody idiots?10:07
RST38hthey may want to replace s40 with android10:08
johnxseems kind of heavyweight for that application doesn't it?10:08
johnxbut what I'm thinking is a game of "telephone" where someone says "new linux phone by xx" "oh, you mean linux, like android?" "yeah"10:09
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adeusthey don't want to replace s40:s with anything10:09
adeusthey're cheap to make and sell like crazy10:10
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qwerty12_N810People would be pissed if they found out that their android phone can only install J2ME games :p10:11
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johnxI thought that was all android could run anyways? :>10:12
qwerty12_N810hehe10:13
johnxI guess you can code part of your j2me game in C now, so it's like the palm "solution" to optimizing code for ARM vs m68k10:14
ptmanthere was just a native sdk release for android10:15
RST38hjohnx: Android isn't very heavyweight, it may be a good replacement for S4010:16
ptmanso no need to code for dalvik (which is closer to j2se than j2me)10:16
johnxRST38h, it's heavy enough to need 400MHz and 128MB of RAM unless I'm missing something10:16
RST38hptman: Their native loophole is pretty limited10:16
johnxptman, AFAIK, you can't call out to system APIs from C10:16
RST38hAnd they only implemented it under pressure from developers10:16
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RST38hjohnx: Oh10:17
ptmanhmm... might be, I haven't looked closely10:17
johnxI skimmed the article10:17
RST38hInitially, Google even deleted messages asking for native model from its forums10:17
johnxptman, they want to keep people in davlik, but let them write in C for performance critical areas10:18
johnxRST38h, I can almost understand that though. they didn't need 100 duplicate threads asking that when they were no where near the point where they could do it10:18
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RST38hjohnx: They could do it from the very beginning10:20
RST38hjohnx: Only took a few weeks for somebody to break through and compile hello world app10:20
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RST38hjohnx: So it looks more like they THOUGHT they could avoid it10:20
johnxheh10:20
RST38hA typical fallacy for the Java guys10:21
johnxnah, I assume it was more of a, "we can't get around do doing this the way we want right now"10:21
johnx"so we'll say you don't need it"10:21
johnxsame as the iPhone 1.010:21
RST38hjohnx: Believe me, it is really trivial10:21
RST38hjohnx: Does not require much time to make10:21
johnxbut they implemented it in a different way.10:21
RST38hJust like every other JVM10:22
johnxthe way they do it now sandboxes C code10:22
RST38hjohnx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Native_Interface10:22
RST38hAny Unix sandboxes C code, try writing outside of your address space or accessing files you are not supposed to access10:22
johnxbut what if you try sitting and spinning with 100% CPU time? or if you try to soak up as much RAM as possible?10:23
johnxpresumably they're trying to avoid apps going crazy like that10:23
RST38hjohnx: You will not be able to allocate more ram than ulimit allows10:23
RST38hjohnx: As to CPU time use, it depends on the scheduling policy. A decent Unix (like FreeBSD) will just move your app to lowerpriority10:24
johnxbut what if priority #1 is the amorphous policy of "preserving battery life"10:24
johnxanyways I'm curious what they *did* do differently that took them so much time :)10:25
RST38hjohnx: I am pretty sure you can still cheat Android and use 100% CPU resources. Good ways to try would be making a lot of system calls (see Maemo Flash) or making calls that incur heavy CPU use (X11 font rendering)10:25
RST38hjohnx: What took them so much time is their dogma.10:25
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johnxwonder if that ubuntu guy had any more luck with davlik under x1110:27
aquatixmorning all10:28
johnxmornin' aquatix10:28
johnxmmmm...cleanly applying patches :)10:30
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liriany chance for thunderbird/sunbird on the n810 platform?10:59
johnxthose are pretty heavy apps11:00
liriI've read it has sync plugins to do all the google apps sync (cal, contacts, etc)11:00
qwerty12_N810liri: google "null-pointer thunderbird"11:00
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liriqwerty12_N810: I guess it's a dead-end road eh11:04
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qwerty12_N810Oh, I thought he had uploaded a binary. But speed-wise, I'd probably say yeah :)11:05
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: Removed the Fastforward feature in favour of being able to actually send F4 to MGS. And the radio screen comes up now so I'm happy. Thanks :)11:29
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RST38hqwerty: That isn't a good way to fix this though12:00
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: Indeed, but I didn't even know that the FastForward feature existed before seeing the code, so for me, it works well :)12:01
RST38hqwerty: I would rather bind F-keys to [F]+[CHR]+upper row12:02
qwerty12_N810That would be useful, I binded the FastForward to the Fn key but I can't go left or right :)12:03
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wazdNokia claimed to be working on Android phone for unveiling later this year12:20
wazdцрфе еру рудд шы ерфеб тщлшф,(12:20
wazdoh12:20
wazdwhat the hell is that, Nokia I mena?!12:20
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wazdmean*12:20
adeusfalse news?12:22
wazdI think so too12:22
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sarowerHello all, Is there any C++ (maemomm) support or wrapper for home screen applet development?12:24
sarowerany body?12:24
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RST38hThere is none.12:30
RST38hwazd: Probably fake12:31
wazdRST38h: yep, cause it's making absolutely no goddamn sense12:31
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murraycsarower: I'm working on it, but not yet.12:33
murraycsarower: And they are called "Desktop Widgets".12:33
murraycsarower: libhildondesktopmm is in the maemomm garage, but it's crashy right now.12:33
* Jaffa wonders if they heard "touchscreen" and "Linux" and thought "Android"12:34
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sarowermurrayc: oh... Thank you very much for your information12:34
sarowermurrayc: do you know when it (libhildondesktopmm) would be available for use?12:35
sarowermurrayc: do you have any reference of libhildondesktopmm?12:36
RST38hwazd: makes more sense than Nokia branded netbooks though12:38
murraycsarower: Possibly within 3 or 4 weeks. It's blocking on something (uninteresting) that I can't mention.12:38
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murraycsarower: In the meantime it should not be too hard to use the C API: http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2009/05/11/maemo-5-desktop-widget-example/12:38
murraycsarower: You can easily use C and C++ together with Glib::wrap() and gobj().12:39
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sarowermurrayc: That means i can use C++ with the C based framework?12:40
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nomissarower: you should be able to use the C-API within C++. You might need to extern "C" {}  the functions that the framework uses to access your code.12:42
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murraycnomis: That's not necessary. GTK+/Hildon code already use that in their headers.12:42
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murraycsarower: Yes: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/tutorial/html/ch04.html#sec-basics-gobj-and-wrap12:43
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sarowermurrayc: Ok let me check these things12:44
nomismurrayc: uhm, IIRC you have to use specific names in your code for the applets, so that the desktop can dlsym the resp. symbol for the applet. That better is not C++-name-mangled...12:44
nomisor am I missing something?12:45
nomisoh, wait. This probably is in HD_DEFINE_PLUGIN.12:49
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sarowermurrayc: Suppose i want to define classes of my own and want to use in the "Desktop Widgets" development framework which is C based!13:12
saroweris it possible?13:13
sarowerSuppose i want to create object inside "example_init()" method and call it's methods!13:14
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murraycsarower: Yes.13:18
murraycsarower: It's easy to use C and C++ together. It's entirely normal.13:18
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sarowermurrayc: How i can implement MVC model in this case? Do you have any sample?13:19
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sarowermurrayc: But for the  "Desktop Widgets" application i must use its own C based framework. eight?13:20
sarowerright*13:20
murraycsarower: Yes, for now. But you can use C++ while doing that.13:22
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sarowermurrayc: did not understand " But you can use C++ while doing that." point!13:24
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wazdVDVsx: ping?)13:39
VDVsxwazd, pong13:39
wazdVDVsx: mornin' :)13:39
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VDVsxg'morning wazd ;)13:40
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adeushttp://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL61383852009070614:32
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RST38hadeus: Hehehe14:39
RST38hPoor Nokia guys have to deny rubbish daily now =)14:39
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ShadowJKRST38h, you know a rumour is false if gartner confirms it14:40
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tank-manI hate news stories about rumors and speculations, they always say someone is making those accusations but not specifically who14:41
tank-manspeculated by "industry insiders"14:42
RST38hShadow: that too14:43
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lcukso what have i missed then15:58
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aquatix*crickets*16:05
lcukaquatix, thinking the same16:06
Jaffalcuk: libliq missed out on being the favoured UI framework in Harmattan to Qt...16:07
RST38hlcuk: You missed on an Android-running Nokia phone16:08
lcukdamn! thats ok though, ill just carry on building it till its everywhere i want it16:08
RST38hlcuk: Which is forever.16:08
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lcuki did get the sketching webservice running though just before i went16:08
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lcukits one less thing for me to worry about16:08
lcukRST38h, :) rome wasnt built in a day16:09
VDVsxdon't worry, liqbase will replace Qt in Imantalle :P16:09
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X-FadeVDVsx: Inverna ;)16:09
GAN8001The Android phone is probably true.16:10
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VDVsxX-Fade, I don't knew the name, just invented that one now :P16:10
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RST38hGAN: Nokia already denied it, publicly16:10
X-Fadeinverna ( in′vərnä ) ( meteorology ) A southeast wind of Lake Maggiore, Italy.16:10
GAN800Nokia has decided that dealing with their own distro is just too much damn work.16:10
VDVsxGAN800, http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL61383852009070616:10
GAN800and those pesky community people just wont STFU16:11
GAN800RST38h, of course they did.16:11
lcukRST38h, nokia can deny it publically all they like, all it takes is some hacker with a will to push it onto the next open device (just like they did with 810)16:11
GAN800Not denying it would ruin the surprise.16:11
lcukwhy a surprise, they have a plan for qt dont they16:11
VDVsxodd: "Very sad to see how the cool, upcoming, GTK/Hildon/Clutter-based Maemo Fremantle is being ignored in the talks given by Nokians so far" -> https://twitter.com/juanjosanchez/status/248584898116:13
VDVsxat GCDS of course16:13
RST38hGAN: I do not know of any cases when something Nokia openly denied ended up as true16:15
finnhi16:16
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wazdRST38h: don't ruin the Great Conspiracy Theory :)16:17
RST38hAnyways, Maemo release strategy looks like complete cluster fuck16:17
lcukJaffa, one thing on what you said - nothing stops me from using libliqbase inside a qt app16:17
lcukbest of both worlds :)16:17
wazd"Aha, they deny that oficcialy, i knew they are hiding something!"16:17
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RST38hFirst, they drop support for Diablo prematurely, leaving current users dry16:17
RST38hwazd: Nokia never confirmed or denied that nuclear test near Karelian boarder, did it? ;)16:18
RST38hs/boarder/border16:18
qwerty12_N810RST38h: At least we know why now that there's Fremantle bugs that are WONTFIX16:18
lcukRST38h, whats your role inside intel?16:18
wazdlcuk: He's the Master of the Universe :)16:19
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RST38hThen, they appear to rewrite the whole GTK+ API, killing compatibility with Diablo and main line GTK apps16:19
RST38hlcuk: software engineer16:19
RST38hlcuk: If you want Moblin guys, they are on the next floor =)16:19
RST38hAnd finally, they promise to rewrite the whole platform AGAIN for the Harmattan16:20
lcukheh up or down from you16:20
wazdRST38h: yep, all those platform frustrations annys me to :(16:20
RST38hlcuk: Up, although the difference is mostly topological =)16:20
wazdRST38h: annoys16:20
_BuBUhi there16:20
_BuBUsorry to ask if that had already been asked... but is there any alpha or something for the Maemo QT port ?16:21
RST38hwazd: If they actually released something by now, it would be ok16:21
RST38hwazd: but right now it all sounds like AmigaOS =)16:21
wazdRST38h: I really don't see any sense to develop 3 versions of one OS same time16:22
RST38hBuBU: Maemo Qt is in extras-devel, it is beta quality.16:22
lbt_BuBU: http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/16:23
RST38hwazd: with a proper process, they would be overlapped a little bit16:23
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wazdRST38h: first they had Elephanta, Fremantle and Harmattan16:23
RST38hwazd: With developers adding evolutionary features to Diablo while fixing bugs and making updates every month or two16:23
VDVsx~maemo-qt16:23
infobotrumour has it, maemo-qt is http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt16:23
RST38hwazd: And a couple of developers working exclusively on QT16:24
GAN800Maemo's having an identity crisis.16:24
wazdRST38h: then they dropped Elephanta and joined Fremantle16:24
wazdRST38h: and now they tell that Harmattan will be different from fremantle16:24
RST38hwazd: which isn't surprising16:25
wazdRST38h: Why not just make Fremantle with whole team?)16:25
wazdRST38h: I mean Harmattan16:25
lcukthey bought a whole team16:25
RST38hwazd: I guess this is what they will do once N900 is released.16:25
RST38hwazd: So, do not expect updates or bug fixes to Fremantle :)16:25
VDVsxjust as side note, the current GTK+/hildon was done mostly by contractors, so they probably have already a good part of the team working on QT16:27
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tbfRST38h: nokia did bug fix releases for diablo when fremantle was in the queue already16:30
tbfRST38h: so why shouldn't they do bugfixes for Fremantle?16:31
tbfRST38h: they also have an image to loose16:31
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RST38htbf: do they still? =)16:31
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timeless_mbphey16:33
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tbfRST38h: don't think they are maintaining diablo anymore, but they deliverd at least two major updates16:33
timeless_mbpif i install openssh on diablo, does it not automatically start sshd?16:33
aquatixtimeless_mbp: it should16:33
tbfRST38h: and the last one was done when fremantle was at full steam already16:33
timeless_mbpaquatix: it doesn't seem like it did16:33
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: sshd is started after install and upon every boot16:33
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aquatixtimeless_mbp: you installed the sshd i presume?16:34
tbfRST38h: there for i'd also expect few update releases for fremantle16:34
RST38htbf: Yes, but how long ago has it been?16:34
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timeless_mbpi installed "openssh"16:34
aquatixthat should install -client and -server i think16:34
timeless_mbpand have "openssh-client", "openssh-common", "openssh-server" as well as the thing i installed ("openssh")16:34
aquatixso sshd16:34
aquatixthen it should have started16:34
RST38htbf: Now, if Fremantle were out, it would be ok to claim that they are supporting Fremantle rather than older Diablo16:35
aquatixtry ssh'ing localhost? :)16:35
timeless_mbpdoesn't work16:35
timeless_mbpand ps doesn't list it16:35
RST38htbf: But, as things are, they are not supporting users at all.16:35
aquatixhm16:35
RST38htbf: Really, REALLY bad idea.16:35
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: tried "/etc/init.d/ssh start"?16:36
timeless_mbpas what?16:36
timeless_mbpi'm kinda not root16:36
RST38htbf: Which could be rectified by periodic updates to Diablo backend packages (like the same camel for example)16:36
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tbfRST38h: afaik last update for diablo was in december 200816:36
timeless_mbphence trying to install ssh16:36
qwerty12_N810There's other ways to get root, *shrug*16:36
RST38htbf: This is 6-7 months ago.16:36
timeless_mbpgive me one that'll work :)16:36
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RST38htbf: Also, look how many bugs to backend packages are marked as "fixed in fremantle" - all these should really be fixed in diablo if you care about your customers.16:37
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RST38htbf: Frontend stuff like GTK+ is ok to ignore, but not the backend (kernel, daemons, drivers, etc)16:38
tbfRST38h: combine that last diablo release date with Fremantle SDK release dates and the rumor google gives you, and make your conclusions about the original schedule ;-)16:39
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: well? :(16:39
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I've used rootsh and sudser fine.16:39
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timeless_mbpok, rootsh worked, thanks16:41
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finncan the "unable to connect. no file system available" be solved without formating the SD card (and losing all the pictures on it)16:45
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till-finn maybe you can use an memory card recovery tool17:15
Stskeepsfinally home \o/17:16
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wazdStskeeps: wb :)17:25
Stskeepsta!17:25
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finntill-: the n810 is my only device which has a card reader (USB), since my USB port is broken on the laptop17:32
RST38htbf: I know with 99% confidence that the Fremantle schedule slipped at least once and most likely twice17:32
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Macerhm18:36
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Macerstill very interested in this touchbook18:36
Macerwonder what type of OS it will be running18:36
Macerxfce w/compiz it seems18:36
Stskeepsany linux18:37
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MacerStskeeps: but they say rhey have18:43
Maceran "innovative 3d operating system"18:44
Macer:)18:44
Maceropensolaris is working on something that runs on arm18:44
Macerbbl18:44
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supermazaquatix: my little tool for flashing the LED when new calls are on the answering machine is working ;)19:02
supermazI now need to add the "make yourself a daemon" code, the next thing would be to implement a desktop applet to show the number on the desktop!19:02
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jophish.19:23
Stskeeps..19:24
baraujo...?19:25
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GAN800??? ???? ??? ? ????19:31
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pupniki want to see who is at the door on my n81019:32
inzdo you use your tablet as a welcome-rug?19:33
VDVsxbuy a wlan camera :)19:33
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inzor buy another n810 and set up some kind of autoanswer-mechanism19:34
Mekapparently there aren't really any n810 available for sale anymore...19:35
inzn800 would be easier, if the camera is popped out, video is started automagically19:35
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VDVsxMek, amazon still have in stock: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/B000Y4AH3C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1246898156&sr=8-119:36
VDVsxS/have/has19:36
Mekhmm, okay; I just heard some nokian complaining that he couldn't even get a new one internally anymore after his old one broke19:36
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VDVsxMek, well, the nokians should be able to get a shiny n9xx ,instead of a old school device, like the n810 :P19:42
Mek:)19:42
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CorsacI did bought mine from expansys19:44
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: prod20:01
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: meep20:02
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: happen to know if toggles has a uploaded src package of his statusbar-applet-settings thing?20:03
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Stskeepsbesides his git20:03
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qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: no idea, I've told him how to generate it so I guess he's just waiting for a nod20:04
Stskeepsk20:04
* Stskeeps gets out his git20:04
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supermazqwerty12_N810: My LED is now blinking when I got a call on the AM ;)20:05
supermazworks great20:05
supermazI love this device!20:05
qwerty12_N810:)20:06
supermaza flashing LED for 200 bucks!20:06
supermazNow comes the desktop applet to develop. I think this will be a bit harder ;)20:07
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lcuk_holidaysupermaz, nahh just do what qwerty does, use sed to print "qwerty12 was ere" inside existing executables :D :P20:12
supermazlcuk_holiday: good idea! I write a daemon that dynamically injects text into other applets and showing the number of new messages! great idea!20:12
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supermazat least it is more haxx0r20:13
Stskeepstimelyx: pong20:13
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lcuk_holidayheh20:13
lcuk_holidayhiya Stskeeps \o20:13
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Stskeepslo lcuk_holiday20:13
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lcuk_holidayenjoy the festival20:13
TomaszDno timeless here Stskeeps20:14
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StskeepsTomaszD: yeah, i think he might be out for today20:16
* GAN800 spilled half his lunch on the floor when some idiot pulled out in front on him. :(20:16
Stskeeps'lo gan20:17
X-FadeGAN800: Next time, take a table at MCD? :)20:17
GAN800They need to start taking people's licenses away when their reaction times breach the 2 second mark.20:18
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GAN800I don't think I've had a McDonald's lunch meal in at least 5 years.20:20
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* Stskeeps ponders idly if he still has spiders in his hair from sleeping a week in tent.20:21
rzrGAN800: so did I20:21
rzrbefore each time i went to mcdo i told myself : never never again20:22
GAN800Their breakfast stuff is OK, but if you're getting a fastfood hamburger I can't see any justification for getting one there.20:22
rzrGAN800: supersize menu man !20:22
derflardman: spadix has a working version of zbar with my QR code integrated.20:22
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GAN800rzr, I'm not having trouble so far. ;)20:23
GAN800Eating chili and a baked potato from Wendy's today.20:23
wazdoh, thanks for reminder , need to go to McD :)20:23
GAN800Couldn't stand the thought of another bowl of soup after 4 days of liquid diet.20:23
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lcuk_holidayStskeeps, would it be easier developing for mer if hildon wasnt there - but using stock gtk20:54
lcuk_holidayor is that a seriously harsh amount of code to allow it20:54
Stskeepslcuk_holiday: it's a bit of a difficult discussion.. in my world hildon should have been in gtk mainline from the start :P20:55
Stskeepsand not really20:55
Stskeepsthey're all widgets20:55
lcuk_holidayyeah i know20:56
lcuk_holidayand i can see why, but if you took the default behaviours of the default gtk and tried to map it to expected behaviour20:56
lcuk_holidaykinda like the way qt is being warped around tablet20:56
Stskeepsi'm welcoming Qt with open arms20:57
lcuk_holidayi dont doubt that20:57
Stskeepsif Vala had existed, and Hildon Desktop had been written in it, it might actually have been readable20:59
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lcuk_holidayagreed21:00
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RST38hhttp://gizmodo.com/5308440/nokia-n97-review-nokia-is-doomed21:07
RST38hho ho ho21:07
RST38hOvi Store. ho ho ho21:08
Meizirkkiho ho ho21:09
qwerty12_N810Where?21:09
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RST38hqwerty: see above link21:09
RST38hthe funny thing is, the guy actually like most preinstalled apps. until he tried the Ovi store =)21:10
RST38hSts: Speaking of Qt, arms is not where it will go =)21:10
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Stskeepsmm, anyone know if HAL support in Xomap is just generally broken?21:24
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finnformated the SD card on a windows XP box and I still get the "no filesystem available"21:27
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RST38hSega finally invents a robotic cat.21:31
qwerty12_N810The one from Chu Chu Rocket?21:32
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* RST38h is eagerly waiting for robotic octopi though... for petting, you know21:32
RST38hqwerty: no, freekishly "real" one21:32
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: any knowledge on HAL & Xomap?21:32
qwerty12_N810RST38h: I want my KapuKapus :)21:33
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: lol, me?21:33
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: yeah, you have some freakish knowledge at times :P21:34
qwerty12_N810Not this time. :) Out of curiosity, 'tis the Fn problem?21:35
Stskeepswell i know what it is now21:36
StskeepsXKB info isn't set cos HAL support in Xomap is broken, -- because it doesn't even use HAL for Maemo :P21:36
qwerty12_N810I found disabling hildon-input-method in Maemo would render my Fn key useless21:37
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Stskeepsheh21:37
finnmhhh  want the usb  sd card reader to work :/21:38
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wazdanother so-so review of n97 http://gizmodo.com/5308440/nokia-n97-review-nokia-is-doomed21:50
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RST38hwazd: Just posted it minutes ago :)21:52
wazdRST38h: oh :)21:52
RST38hwazd: nothing new though - the keyboard sucks and Ovi just blows.21:52
RST38hwazd: Have you read AAS suggestion about Ovi? =)21:52
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wazdRST38h: nope)21:54
RST38hwazd: http://www.mobileindustryreview.com/2009/07/nokias_ovi_lets_the_market_decide_the_market_says_no_and_how_to_fix_it.html21:54
RST38hwazd: Somehow he forgot to mention electric cattle prods and food deprivation =)21:55
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wazdbtw, i've recently installed iTunes to look thru iPhones app store and it sucked badly :)21:59
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RST38hWell, all those stores starting with Handango have got the same problem21:59
wazdnot on n800 but on a freaking multicore, thousands of ram rig :)21:59
RST38hHundreds of similar crappy apps.21:59
wazdI couldn't even look thru it cause it was damn slow22:00
suihkulokkiliars, steve wouldn't let any crappy apps to iphone app store!22:00
wazdnot to mention iTunes came to my PC like a gypsy, with billion of it's relatives :)22:02
RST38hsuihkulokki: Me and Steve, we have different definitions of "crappy"...22:02
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wazdSafari, Bojour, Quicktime and so and so :)22:03
RST38hwazd: that is why I can't install quicktime - the moment you say "yes" to install, it drops a whole shitload of unneeded stuff to your hd22:03
qwerty12_N810Quicktime Alternative FTW22:04
wazdWould you like to install Safari? -No -Quicktime 10? -No Bonjour support? -No. Would you like to buy a Mac? -No Macbook maybe? -No. Well, at least an iPod? -No Oh crap...22:05
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wazdMy friend don't understand how can I be a designer and don't like Apple same time :)22:07
wazdfriends*22:07
lbtsure?22:09
RST38hwazd: Not gay enough?22:10
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wazdRST38h: I don't know how these things are connected :)22:10
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RST38hwazd: Through heightened sense of style of course~!22:10
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wazdlbt: sure bout what?)22:11
lbtyou have >1  friend  ?   ;)22:11
wazdlbt: I thought exactly the same xD22:11
wazdRST38h: well, maybe :)22:12
wazdRST38h: haven't tested the dependancy between gayness and style sense levels :D22:12
RST38hwazd: need a sufficiently large sample, indeed...22:13
RST38hwazd: You do tend to draw Mac-styled icons though, so not everything is lost yet =)22:13
wazdRST38h: there's no sch thing as "mac style" :) Well, there is OS X icon guidelines but I've made my two icons without any guidelines at all :)22:15
lcuk_holidaywazd, when you hang many independent clocks upon a wall, without any real connectivity the pendulums will settle into sync with each other22:16
lbtdon't forget about the wall22:17
* Stskeeps sits down and listens to quim's talk22:18
lcuk_holidayof course, thats the real answer but people expect other mechanisms - wazd, do you have a wardrobe full of turtleneck sweaters? lol22:18
wazdStskeeps: from his keynote?22:18
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wazdlcuk_holiday: I have jeans, turtleneck sweater and even glasses :D22:19
Stskeepswazd: yeah22:19
lcuk_holidayand a new liver?22:19
auntieNeouh, how can I tell if I'm using diablo or chinook? the thing says it's version 5.2008.43-722:19
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StskeepsauntieNeo: diablo22:20
Stskeepswiki.maemo.org/Codenames , i think22:20
wazdlcuk_holiday: oh my god! I'm Steve Jobs!22:20
lcuk_holiday:O22:22
* auntieNeo throws a nokia phone at Jobs22:22
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wazdauntieNeo: I'm melting! Bwaaaaargh!1122:23
auntieNeoheh, got my N810 today... finally <_<22:23
Stskeepswoo22:24
auntieNeoI think I runned it out of memory, 'cuz it frozed :(22:25
auntieNeolol22:25
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Stskeepsyou ought to try out Mer sometime :P22:25
auntieNeoI'm planning on it :P22:25
auntieNeosince it's rumored that nokia will drop N8*0 support :/22:26
Stskeepsit's fact, not rumour22:26
auntieNeoalthough, I'm also planning on installing debian and using dwm ;P22:26
Stskeepsdon't bother with debian really - if it's deblet22:26
auntieNeoI'm not really into the tablet stuff, more into the terminal stuff22:26
Stskeepsit's old and unmaintaine22:26
Stskeepsd22:26
auntieNeommm22:26
auntieNeodebian?22:27
auntieNeodebian arm?22:27
StskeepsMer is the successor of Deblet, the debian port to nokia internet tablet :P22:27
auntieNeodebian arm is one of the most maintained arm distros out there22:27
auntieNeoheh22:27
Stskeepsyeah, i know22:27
Stskeepsi fucked up an exam because of the damn thing22:27
Stskeeps:P22:27
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auntieNeommm... but uh... I thought maemo was debian based anyway22:27
wazdhttp://static.maemo.org/static/m/maemo_brainstorm_introduction.swf <- wow, who did this?)22:27
Jaffabergie, I think22:28
StskeepsauntieNeo: yeah, but insisting any sanity from installating debian packages should not be expected22:28
Stskeeps:P22:28
wazdEmilia Hjelm I suppose :)22:28
auntieNeodoes Mer have a real X server? i.e. can I run dwm? ;P22:29
StskeepsauntieNeo: Xomap is a real X server22:29
Stskeepsi'm not sure what dwm is :P22:29
auntieNeookay :P22:29
auntieNeodwm is a < 2000 line window manager22:30
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Stskeepsah22:30
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erik___so that's ok, the screen have leess than 200 lines also :)22:30
Stskeepsyou can really do what you want except for GNOME desktop22:30
Stskeeps:P22:30
auntieNeobleh, GNOME ;P22:30
erik___s/200/20000/22:30
infoboterik___ meant: so that's ok, the screen have leess than 20000 lines also :)22:30
auntieNeoI meant 2kloc22:31
erik___I know, i was kidding :)22:31
auntieNeoyou can't kid on the internet. this is serious business22:31
erik___(and utterly failed my sed)22:31
wazdhttp://s58.radikal.ru/i161/0907/47/44584345dafa.jpg <- possible BlueMaemo multimedia screen :)22:31
lcuk_holidayheh much cleaner than my crabby one for talking to my windows daemon http://liqbase.net/liq.20090624_222446.lib.scr.png22:35
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wazdlcuk_holiday: well, you have fonts AA, good step forward :)22:37
lcuk_holidaythats been standard for ages, nothing special22:37
lcuk_holidayeven original liqbase had them22:37
wazdlcuk_holiday: hmm22:41
wazdlcuk_holiday: maybe I was wrong :)22:41
lcuk_holidaytheres just so little of liqbase using fonts that you dont normally notice ;)22:41
Maceri want a damn touchbook!22:42
Macerheh22:42
Maceri hate waiting for crap to come out.22:42
Macern900.. touchbook.. a pc that doesnt suck...22:43
Maceretc22:43
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auntieNeoeverything sucks :P22:45
auntieNeoexcept for the gameboy pocket22:46
auntieNeothat was perfect22:46
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auntieNeoI was waiting for the pandora when I thought "screw that" and bought the N810 ;P22:47
Stskeepsgood choice22:47
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auntieNeoI'm still waiting for a device that will continue the HP Jornada form factor :/22:48
auntieNeobut that will never happen, sadly :(22:48
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FirebirdauntieNeo, doesn't Sony VAIO make one that's close? http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/21/article-1125682-0300EC1D000005DC-283_468x344.jpg22:51
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Macerheh22:56
Macerwell i am sold on this touchbook22:56
Macersure would like to see what kind of "custom os" it runs22:57
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Macerconsidering the n900 probably wont be out til 201222:57
Macerheh22:57
qwerty12_N810Macer: s/n900/Pandora/ :)22:58
Macerwell. whatever thwey want to call it22:58
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Maceri suppose renaming it is progress22:58
Macerso maybe 201122:58
Macer:)22:58
Macerthen when it comes out it will be old hardware22:58
Macerah well. i am going to order some food22:59
RST38hVAX loses 0:323:00
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Macerpandora huh?23:00
Macerthats kind of a crappy name23:00
Stskeepspandora's box of excuses23:01
Macerhaha23:01
Macerthe only thing left in the box is hope23:01
Macer:)23:01
qwerty12_N810If scamming is considered an evil, then I guess the name is befitting...23:02
Macerlike hope nokia doesnt abandon a niche market device?23:02
RST38hWhile you are joking, N900 is quickly closing on Pandora in terms of empty promises =(23:02
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MacerRST38h: yeah. you guys should give up on nokia23:02
* ShadowJK can't remember any promises23:02
Macerand find a new device23:02
Macerheh23:02
Macerand change th # name to Mer23:03
Macerbecause maemo seems dead23:03
ShadowJKif maemo is dead then isn't mer too dead?23:04
Macerno. they can take over from where nokia abandoned them23:05
Stskeepshah, :P23:05
Stskeepsnot yet23:06
Stskeepsgive me a budget for a developer team23:06
wazdMacer: n900 wont be out untill june 2035 ;)23:06
coldbootI still don't understand why anyone would want an n810.23:06
coldbootI don't know what Nokia's trying to do with this device.23:06
auntieNeolol :(23:07
auntieNeoit's for geeks that have no use for the device but to hack it ;P23:07
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wazdbtw, if only sony put an arm into Vaio P - that would be a real thing :)23:07
auntieNeothat's why I bought it23:07
qwerty12_N810coldboot: you and Luke-Jr should team up :)23:07
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Stskeepscoldboot: what would you want with it?23:08
ShadowJKI bought N810 because it had bigger screen and more RAM than my cellphone :) nicer for browsing internet on the couch than on the phone23:08
* wazd listening to "the Wall"23:08
ShadowJKas a bonus it's faster too23:08
ShadowJKand runs linux :)23:08
coldbootStskeeps: For it not to be so huge and have a cell radio, and a decent keyboard.23:09
Stskeepscoldboot: get a n900 then. really.23:09
ShadowJKThe only decent keyboard, the E70 keyboard, has been killed :)23:09
Stskeepsthe developer units we saw (not a n900, .. just a devel board) was drool-worthy.23:09
wazdI wonder if there's any device that is enough for absolutely everyone?)23:09
Stskeepswazd: i doubt it. i will have multiple devices in my apartment.23:10
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wazdEveryone will always want something23:10
ShadowJKwazd, just the screen size issue makes it impossible :)23:10
waynewhi, does anyone know what hildonized means?23:10
ShadowJKI want bigger screen, say 7 - 10", other people want smaller :)23:10
RST38hwazd: Yes. Drugs.23:10
auntieNeowaynew: it means that the app has been modified to use the hildon gui23:11
Stskeepswazd: it means converting an interface and app to fit the mobile form factor and interfacing23:11
coldbootShadowJK: Isn't Apple making a tablet PC soon?23:11
auntieNeoi.e. it's been maemoized23:11
ShadowJKcoldboot, I suspect there would be even greater pain making that run Linux and all the usual software I use on my computer than a future N900..23:12
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ShadowJKplus I'm not too keen on the appletax :)23:13
wazdLike everybody wants a thin and light, pocketable device with 7" screen, 80000 MAh battery, all possible radios, ARM cpu with ability to run Crysis, fullsized keyboard, huge trackpad, capacitive touchscreen with stylus support, rocketlauncher and coffee machine :)23:13
coldbootShadowJK: What do you want your handheld device to do? I love using Linux, but the fumbly awkwardness of the n810 or n900's interface isn't worth it.23:13
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ShadowJKwhat awkwardness?23:13
wazdcoldboot: use KDE23:14
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waynewauntieNeo: thanks23:14
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tbfcoldboot: interesting that you know the n900's UI already... :-p23:14
coldbootThe keyboard sucks, having to use a stylus instead of touching, the slow interface (not in terms of software performance)23:14
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coldboottbf: I'm assuming it won't be a giant leap over the previous.23:14
ShadowJKif nokia came out with N900 with the same hw specs as rumoured, but ran basically diablo/maemo4 on it, I'd still buy it. I'd probably be less hesitant to buy it that way really..23:15
wazdShadowJK: use Mer then23:15
coldbootNokia's n810 interface is basically the same design as a desktop computer.23:15
auntieNeolol, w/e coldboot23:16
tbfcoldboot: seems you didn't see maemo5 sdk screenshots yet23:16
coldbootThe better mobile devices has tried to make things faster to do.23:16
ShadowJKIf they added a tiny trackball in the corner or on tbe back it'd be perfect :-)23:16
wazdShadowJK: it's UI is optimized to run fast on a microwave :)23:16
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auntieNeoI bought my n810 knowing that the keyboard sucked... so I've been building a chorded keyboard to velcro to the back of it ;P23:17
coldboottbf: Where are the screenshots?23:17
auntieNeonow I just gotta wire the keys :/23:17
ShadowJKcoldboot, I don't want some new UI designed by some idiots who think they know what "intuitive", "easy to use" and $buzzword means if it makes it harder to run normal programs on it23:17
tbfcoldboot: google has them23:17
lcuk_holidayauntieNeo, are you using a standard command protocol to get data back - could your chording keyboard be used as a game pad expansion23:18
ShadowJKor the latest fingerpainting craze, or whatever comes next after the fingerpainting stuff. Maybe using your nose23:18
wazdShadowJK: thak you xD23:18
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auntieNeolcuk_holiday: uh, I'm using a microcontroller to convert it into a standard usb keyboard23:19
wazdShadowJK: iPhone users already use noses btw :D23:19
wazdShadowJK: to answer the call in winter :)23:19
auntieNeolol23:19
ShadowJKwazd, yes I'm aware they worship the apple ceo23:19
lcuk_holidayauntieNeo, did you know, there is an internal usb panel i believe - and theres an extension battery case and mods by someone else for extended memory card23:20
lcuk_holidayi bet the extended case could be modded and you could have a wire-free implementation23:20
coldbootShadowJK: There are definitely design considerations to make when making a mobile device easier to use, regardless of buzzwords. If you just want a small laptop, then I guess you have it.23:20
lcuk_holiday(visible wires anyway)23:20
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auntieNeothere's another USB header in the n810?23:20
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coldbootShadowJK: But without a mouse and keyboard, all of the things you'd usually do are much less convenient on a mobile device.23:21
lcuk_holidayyes, under/near the battery i believe (i hope im not just remembering the wrong thing23:21
ShadowJKthere's just one USB port on the N810.. it's accessible through the port on the side or the headers near/under the battery23:21
ShadowJKthere are also some diagnostic pads and a serial port near/under the battery..23:21
qwerty12_N810lcuk_holiday: that's serial23:21
ShadowJKthere's USB there too23:21
lcuk_holidayit may be physically connected to the external one, but for a device designed to be physically attached it would be be more comfortable23:21
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ShadowJKand yes it's connected to the external one so if you use it you can't use the external :)23:22
lcuk_holidaythe external is pretty much useless for most people23:22
lcuk_holidayyou cant carry round without uncomfortable stand not closing23:22
lcuk_holidayusing the internal one for a new input device would be cool23:23
ShadowJKcoldboot, there is a keyboard, and if they'd make the stylus behave like a laptop's touchpad or add keys on the side for mouse buttons it'd be nice :-)23:23
auntieNeothere's a bunch of contacts under the battery... which one? :P23:23
auntieNeoI googled it...23:23
lcuk_holidaydoes it matter right now as long as we find out for sure if thats a possible pathway23:23
auntieNeommm... I'd have to drill through the metal battery cover or something23:24
auntieNeoI wonder if you can get cover replacements...23:24
lcuk_holidaythats why i mentioned the alternative ones23:24
lcuk_holidaythere are people who can make them to spec23:24
coldbootShadowJK: The keyboard sucks, and isn't always deployed. And you don't use it like you do on a computer, with at least one hand almost always on it. I'm just saying that since the way you use the hardware is different so the software has to accommodate to make things just as convenient.23:25
lcuk_holidayif you can show a simple hackable workable example (which works for you) then others may get involved23:25
coldbootSo the design of the iPhone, although limited, makes it much easier to do the tasks you'd generally want to do on a mobile device.23:25
coldbootAlso a blackberry, which is less intuitive, but I'd say much faster to do things.23:25
coldbootWhereas a nokia device is mostly just a small laptop with a crappy keyboard and a stylus.23:25
auntieNeocoldboot: people buy the n810 because they don't want to be limited like that :P23:25
lbtJaffa: badger.... git-svn ? .... :)23:25
lcuk_holidayauntieNeo, http://www.remotefactory.com/32gbn810sdSSMetal.html23:26
coldbootauntieNeo: Yeah I understand that, there needs to be more of a compromise with usability or nobody's going to want to use the thing.23:26
ShadowJKThe tasks I do on a mobile device mostly falls down to: 1) internet browsing, or 2) forget it and pick up the N810, or 3) start putty so I can get to real computer23:26
coldbootIt can be way more usable without being limited.23:26
auntieNeousability is a very subjective word23:26
auntieNeoI define usable as the ability to recompile my kernel ;P23:27
ShadowJKthe problem is that there's a /ton/ of software that you'd have to rewrite23:27
lcuk_holidayondevice? using binary switches23:27
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ShadowJKhaving python available on the cellphone helps alot, but it's quite awkward to find and execute the glue scripts you end up writing to fill in the gaps23:28
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coldbootShadowJK: Or have both ways coexisting.23:28
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lcuk_holidayauntieNeo, good luck with your project \o23:28
coldbootauntieNeo: And this is why only a few people are ever going to use these things.23:29
* lcuk_holiday goes back lurking23:29
auntieNeolcuk_holiday: thanks! I'll email that guy :P23:33
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lcuk_holidayget your proto together first, have you made one before23:34
MacerStskeeps:  im just saying that it is good you made mer universal23:34
Macerat least you wont be stuck only using nokia stuff23:34
StskeepsMacer: i only did it for the free hardware donations23:35
Stskeeps:P23:35
Stskeepsnah, kidding. developing on x86 for mer is -delicious-23:35
Macernokia will leave you stranded once they see it isnt viable to continue support23:35
Macerx86?!23:35
Macerdont do it!23:35
StskeepsMacer: oh, we have x86 port since day 1 really23:36
Macerheh23:36
ShadowJKNokia did S60 on x86 :)23:36
Macerlol23:36
StskeepsMacer: it helps a lot to be able to try your app on your desktop pc first23:36
ShadowJKapparently it's "very fast"23:36
Maceri'd hope a 3GHz x86 would go faster than a 400MHz arm23:37
Macer;)23:37
Maceri mean even with taking arch into account23:37
ShadowJKoh I think it was Atom they used23:37
Macerbut i was just saying nokia is a corp23:37
ShadowJKfor some demo23:37
Macerwhose main objective is profit23:38
Macerthey will eventually leave you to fend for yourself23:38
Macersince personally i think "pandora" will be a dud23:39
Macern810s had a chance if they didnt get screwed by the wimax projects23:39
Macerbut wimax became the new enron23:39
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Macerwhen i think wimax i think enron and the india power plant23:40
ShadowJKhey I'm on wimax :)23:40
ShadowJKnon-mobile wimax though23:40
MacerShadowJK: heh23:40
Macernon mobile? whats the point?23:41
* ShadowJK has a dish in his antenna tower in the backyard23:41
ShadowJKThe point is broadband internet :)23:41
Macerunless youre in the boonies and cant get anything23:41
Macerelse23:41
Macerclocking 54mbit ShadowJK ?23:41
ShadowJKADSL doesn't reach too well over 10km of mixed copper/steel/aluminium wires :)23:41
Macerget cable23:42
Maceror fios23:42
Macerbbl. have to do stuff23:42
ShadowJKit would be stupid to dig down cable23:42
ShadowJKwe're digging down fibre :)23:42
ShadowJKbut it'll take a year or two still before it reaches coverage and gets any connectivity23:43
ShadowJKif the mobile operators had been a year or two faster with 3G rollout I imagine people wouldn't have signed up the fibre23:45
RST38hShadowJK: where is it? (the dish I mean)23:46
ShadowJKand just replaced their telephones and adsl with 3G instead when the telephone company withdraws and takes their copper with them23:46
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ShadowJKI live in .fi if that's what you mean23:47
RST38hoh23:47
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* RST38h was wondering where in the world you would have to use a dish23:47
ShadowJKThe company providing wimax standardized on "one size fits all" for the equipment23:47
ShadowJKThe range is somewhere between 20-30km with it23:48
RST38hso why not wimax then?23:48
ShadowJKit is wimax?23:49
RST38hwith a dish? hmm23:49
ShadowJKyes23:49
RST38hinteresting23:49
ShadowJKdirectional antenna23:49
ShadowJKlooks like a tiny flat satellite dish23:49
RST38hyea, at 10km range you would probably need it...23:49
RST38hnow when I think about it...23:49
Luke-JrauntieNeo: except the N810 is closed, so us geeks can't actually hack it properly23:50
Luke-Jrcoldboot: convert to Gentoo *hypnotise beam*23:51
ShadowJKthe base station is at the top of a 90 metre tall mast, the backbone connection is a big high-gain microwave ethernet bridge to another huge mast about 40km away connected to fibre :-)23:51
coldbootLuke-Jr: How is it closed?23:51
Stskeepshere we go again..23:51
* Stskeeps ducttapes Luke-Jr to the wall23:51
Luke-Jrcoldboot: lack of specification of any kind for the GPS and battery charger23:51
RST38hSts: dict tape his mouth too23:52
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coldbootLuke-Jr: That sucks.23:52
RST38hSts: do it with a Windows serial number sticker, for better effect23:52
* qwerty12_N810 has a vista one, should be befitting for the task23:52
eichihm mediabox is a good app, but needs very much buttons-press to get music playing ;) kanu is there much faster23:53
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* ShadowJK tries to remember how to relaunch bme after it dies23:56
Stskeepspanic, usually23:56
Stskeeps:P23:56
qwerty12_N810Panicking not working? :)23:56
* ShadowJK shall kll bme then attach charger23:57
ShadowJKvoltage recorded before and willdisconnect charger, restart bme and take new voltage reading in 15 min :)23:58
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Luke-Jr23:58
Luke-JrStskeeps: ShadowJK gets the bomb before me23:58
ShadowJKto test if it charges without the blob23:58
qwerty12_N810Luke-Jr: how's your reversing going btw?23:58
Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: haven't had time for a week or 223:59
qwerty12_N810Ah23:59
ShadowJKluke: thsnks for reminding me... current battery state would make it approach danger levels in <30 minutes if charger ends up dumping all power into battery :)23:59

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