IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-07-04

derfmavhc: I don't even think you're listening.00:00
JaffaYouTube's going to use <video>, but only with H264 as - apparently - Theora's not good enough quality at a given bitrate.00:00
GeneralAntillesderf, a common practice in this channel.00:00
* RST38h cringes every time he sees Theora mentioned00:01
*** lbt has quit IRC00:01
RST38hIs this BBC article related to the topic in any way: "Shoppers Burnt By Giant Chrome Balls" ? =)00:02
mavhcoh, you're on about java00:02
*** lbt has joined #maemo00:02
*** tank-man has joined #maemo00:02
mavhcis that just audio or video too?00:02
derfRST38h: Considering someone is usually saying something inaccurate or misleading, I often do, too.00:02
derfFor example, Jaffa about YouTube.00:03
*** Luke-Jr has quit IRC00:04
*** Luke-Jr has joined #Maemo00:05
*** alehorst1 has joined #maemo00:07
Jaffaderf: In what way was what I said inaccurate or misleading?00:08
RST38hFolks, it looks weird when you argue about some stupid Youtube media player00:08
Jaffaderf: http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-June/020620.html00:08
RST38hBelieve me it DOES NOT MATTER how Youtube plays videos.00:09
derfJaffa: a) Chris DiBona talking out of his ass is not an official position of Google (they have not made an official position, publicly, about what they will or won't do) and b) http://people.xiph.org/~greg/video/ytcompare/comparison.html00:09
mavhchttp://www.youtube.com/html500:09
Jaffa"Google [...] have indicated a belief that Ogg Theora's quality-per-bit is not yet suitable for the volume handled by YouTube"00:10
derfYes. I belive that statement is inaccurate also, and it is unfortunate that it is in the current draft.00:10
*** halves has quit IRC00:11
mavhcdoes this xiph ogg4quicktime thing make safari support ogg?00:11
ShadowJKThat's a pretty damning condemnation from google, considering google is currently using one of the worst h264 encoders in existence :-)00:11
RST38hQuicktime. Puke.00:11
RST38hShadowJK: Well, the have got lowest bitrates :)00:12
derfmavhc: Yes.00:12
Jaffaderf: I don't care one jot whether Theora is a good codec or not. So whether the technical accuracy is there or not, there have been indications from Google - and the current /html5 posted by mavhc also does this - that they aren't going to use Ogg on YouTube's <video> tags due to bandwidth concerns.00:12
Luke-Jrlol00:12
RST38hShadowJK: At which Theora probably sucks royally00:12
JaffaGoogle have bandwidth concerns about Theora. This is accurate. Whether or not they are right to do so has no bearing on me being "inaccurate or misleading".00:12
mavhcalso they don't want to reencode 18 billion hours of video again, with a slow encoder00:13
ShadowJKRST38h, yes well, you can make any codec look good by tweaking an encoder for higher bitrates and using extreme bitrates :-)00:13
RST38hOk, found info on Firefox 3.5 codecs. FireFox only supports OGG00:13
mavhcyoutube/html5 doesn't work in chrome 200:13
ShadowJKThe crappy h264 encoder they use is probably blazing fast, yeah00:13
*** johnsq has quit IRC00:13
derfJaffa: You may wish to keep reading further in that thread, specifically to http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-July/020701.html00:14
RST38hShadowJK: I personally do not see the point in YouTube videos00:14
RST38hShadowJK: So whatever their quality is, I am unlikely to watch them00:15
derfAnd I'm not accusing _you_ of intentionally deceiving people. You're simply repeating what has been said elsewhere. That doesn't make it more accurate or less misleading.00:15
ShadowJKI personally don't see the point in putting all this in the browser anyway :-)00:15
mavhcbrowser should be text only, images handled by image viewer00:15
mavhclike in the good old days00:15
ShadowJKwhere by browser I mean html or through plugins..00:15
derfJust like I don't think cdibona talking out of his ass was malicious. It's just what he does.00:15
ShadowJKCertainly on N8x0 you're better off using image viewer :-)00:16
RST38hShadowJK: Sure about it? =)00:16
ShadowJKThe browser consumes huge amounts of ram to display an image00:16
RST38hShadowJKL N8x0 image viewer can be easily crashed by a normally sized image from a modern digicam00:16
*** KurtKraut has joined #maemo00:16
derfmavhc: There's a page somewhere that demos Ogg support in lynx.00:16
mavhckeep them as jpeg in ram, decompress on the fly00:16
ShadowJKI've never seen it crash00:17
ShadowJKeven with large images00:17
RST38hShadowJK: Have swap enabled?00:17
ShadowJKyep00:17
RST38hThat's why.00:17
ShadowJKwell it doesn't crash, it runs out of memory :-)00:17
ShadowJKbut the browser consumes even more for the same task00:17
ShadowJKdunno how quiver is on memory consumption, but atleast it doesn't stall on IO/CPU constantly :-)00:18
*** uzzed has quit IRC00:18
* RST38h recently found 5 copies of browserd happily hanging in memory00:18
ShadowJKIt's nice, it thumbnails the directory in the background when you're looking at a picture, when you tap next picture it scales up a thumbnail, then it seems to load the full picture and do a low-quality scaling of it, then it does high quality scale00:19
RST38hMaybe I should just stop trying to use MicroB... I quit on Modest and it felt good. Getting rid of MicroB should feel even better00:19
ShadowJKthe picture emerges fast, and then the quality is refined00:19
RST38hShould try quiver...00:19
*** romullo has quit IRC00:19
*** secureendpoints has quit IRC00:19
ShadowJKWell Tear is fast, except it doesn't work on some pages, and it eats more memory than browserd00:20
ShadowJKit's just more.. gradual about memory use00:20
derfRST38h: Wait, you _started_ using modest?00:20
mavhcI just want an easy way to install apps to mmc00:20
*** alehorst has quit IRC00:20
RST38hShadow: As long as I can kill it, it is fine00:20
mavhcwhat do you use instead of modest?00:20
ShadowJKwhereas browserd might suddenly decide it needs 20 meg more, and then releases it after rummaging through it awhile00:20
RST38hderf: Well I have been trying for a long while, even filed bugs00:20
*** EdLin has quit IRC00:20
RST38hderf: That was probably stupid of me :(00:20
RST38hmavhc: Claws00:20
derfI tried claws. It uses too much memory.00:21
RST38hderf: it is ok.00:21
derfIt was okay until it tried to check for new mail. Then it just started swapping forever.00:21
mavhcI only use modest to alert me to new mail and sometimes read new mail00:21
RST38hderf: you probably got lots of email :)00:21
mavhcwith gmail imap00:21
derfRST38h: A little bit, yeah.00:21
RST38hmavhc: it does not do even THAT for me00:21
ShadowJKI don't use any email on cellphone or tablet... or on any computer but my home computer :/00:22
ShadowJKMy email setup isn't very well suited for it :\00:22
*** romullo has joined #maemo00:22
RST38hmavhc: unstable wifi connection often puts it into some weird hung state00:22
derfAnyway, I just use webmail.00:22
*** Luke-Jr has quit IRC00:22
* RST38h uses SSH00:22
derfSlow, cumbersome, but it works, which is more than I can say for the alternatives.00:22
RST38h+ PINE00:22
*** Luke-Jr has joined #Maemo00:23
ShadowJKoh, ssh+mutt would work for me :-)00:23
RST38hOk, sleep time.00:23
*** baraujo has quit IRC00:24
*** ignacius has quit IRC00:27
*** kulve_ has joined #maemo00:30
*** kulve is now known as kulve_00:30
*** ablack__ has joined #Maemo00:30
*** radic_ has quit IRC00:32
mavhcso safari just sends <video> to quicktime, but other browsers don't use OS video codecs, directshow etc?00:33
mavhcwhat about safari on windows without quicktime?00:33
derfSafari does not "just" send <video> to Quicktime. It actively disables large portions of Quicktime for security reasons.00:33
ShadowJKIE would probably use OS codecs00:34
mavhcpity it doesn't do that for everyone00:34
ShadowJKfirefox and chrome probably don't have that luxury00:34
derfRight. Because IE wants to make sure your box is rooted.00:35
mavhcwhat's the linux version of directshow?00:35
derfgstreamer00:36
ShadowJKThere is none00:36
ShadowJKon windows about the only thing that doesn't use OS codecs is vlc..00:36
*** AndrewFBlack has joined #Maemo00:36
*** kulve has joined #maemo00:39
*** uzzed has joined #maemo00:40
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo00:42
*** uzzed has left #maemo00:43
RichiHis it normal for a n810 with maemo 2008.5 to become _really_ slow, unstable and hang frequently when you filled almost all of the internal storage?00:45
ShadowJKyes00:46
ShadowJKjffs2 doesn't like getting full00:46
ShadowJKneeds breathing room00:46
GeneralAntillesRichiH, consider:00:47
GeneralAntilles~boot-sd00:47
infobotmethinks boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card00:47
RichiHhow much space should i leave free?00:48
*** ablack_ has quit IRC00:48
*** romullo1 has joined #maemo00:49
RichiHon the internal storage, that is00:49
RichiHunfortunately, i do not have any mini SD cards, just micro & normal00:49
*** romullo has quit IRC00:50
ShadowJKi'm using micro in mine... with micro to mini adapter00:50
ShadowJKI noticed slowness to boot at 15 meg free once :)00:51
*** sphenxes has quit IRC00:51
mavhcnoone sells mini now00:51
*** ssvb has joined #maemo00:51
*** ablack__ has quit IRC00:53
*** greentux has quit IRC00:55
*** alehorst1 has quit IRC01:00
*** Luke-Jr has quit IRC01:03
*** Luke-Jr has joined #Maemo01:04
*** jakemaheu has quit IRC01:04
*** jophish has quit IRC01:04
*** matt_c has quit IRC01:20
*** brankinhu_ has quit IRC01:23
*** KurtKraut has quit IRC01:30
*** florian has quit IRC01:30
*** zimmerle has quit IRC01:30
*** smackpotat has joined #maemo01:33
*** smackpotat has left #maemo01:33
*** hugopl has quit IRC01:35
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC01:37
*** benh has joined #maemo01:38
*** setanta has quit IRC01:39
*** qwerty12_N810 has quit IRC01:42
*** lbt has quit IRC01:47
*** macmaN67891 has quit IRC01:54
*** t_s_o has quit IRC01:55
*** cktakahasi has quit IRC01:55
xnt14http://xceleo.org/network/  :)01:55
xnt14~seen b-man1601:55
infobotb-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 10h 18m 8s ago, saying: 'hello'.01:55
xnt14argh where the hell is he :P01:55
xnt14btw luke-jr, since you hate flash, http://processingjs.org/ :)01:56
xnt14ill tell b-man to rewrite his gallery with it01:57
xnt14or ill rewrite it01:57
*** danilocesar has quit IRC01:59
*** blade_runner has quit IRC02:04
*** zap has quit IRC02:06
*** tonikitoo has quit IRC02:07
mavhcwith processingjs you not longer have to kill flash to stop high cpu usage, you have to kill the whole page!02:07
Luke-Jror click the Stop button02:08
xnt14lol02:11
xnt14http://xceleo.org/proto/processing/02:12
xnt14dont open that page on the nit02:12
xnt14too slow :P02:12
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC02:20
*** hannesw has quit IRC02:22
*** leandroal has joined #maemo02:22
*** VDVsx has quit IRC02:23
*** elninja has joined #maemo02:23
*** disco_stu has quit IRC02:23
*** LinuxCode has joined #maemo02:32
*** Hitos has joined #maemo02:35
*** dlm has joined #maemo02:36
*** eichi has joined #maemo02:37
*** renato has quit IRC02:37
*** L0cutus has quit IRC02:39
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo02:45
*** dlmarti has left #maemo02:46
*** dlmarti has joined #maemo02:47
*** jnettlet_ has quit IRC02:50
* xnt14 eats dinner | brb02:52
*** filip42 has quit IRC02:55
*** philipl has joined #maemo03:08
*** mariorz has quit IRC03:08
*** romullo1 is now known as romullo03:09
*** etrunko has quit IRC03:09
*** OmegaEvil has joined #maemo03:14
*** leandroal has quit IRC03:14
*** LinuxCode has quit IRC03:17
*** OmegaEvil is now known as LinuxCode03:17
*** hellwolf has quit IRC03:20
*** pupnik_ has quit IRC03:26
*** SHADOW_V has joined #maemo03:27
*** SHADOW_V1 has joined #maemo03:27
*** rsalveti has quit IRC03:29
*** riddlebox has quit IRC03:29
*** brolin has joined #maemo03:33
*** hellwolf-n810 has joined #maemo03:35
*** victorpoluceno has joined #maemo03:38
*** ken has joined #maemo03:39
*** alecrim has quit IRC03:47
*** victorpoluceno has quit IRC03:48
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo03:49
*** Hitos has quit IRC03:54
*** christefano has joined #maemo03:54
*** christefano has left #maemo03:56
kenNow i want to add a GtkWiget like drawing_area to plugin area,who encountered a similar sitruation?03:56
*** MerkurAlex has left #maemo03:58
*** Firebird has joined #maemo03:58
*** croppa has quit IRC04:01
*** LinuxCode has quit IRC04:04
*** croppa has joined #maemo04:05
*** jegp has joined #maemo04:05
kenany idea?04:05
*** zimmerle has joined #maemo04:10
*** zimmerle_ has joined #maemo04:12
*** benh has quit IRC04:12
*** Pyrhos has quit IRC04:21
*** pdz- has joined #maemo04:26
*** zimmerle_ has quit IRC04:27
*** zimmerle has quit IRC04:29
*** SHADOW_V has quit IRC04:35
*** brolin has quit IRC04:40
*** pdz has quit IRC04:41
*** ken has quit IRC04:49
*** kell has joined #maemo04:55
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo04:58
*** andre__ has joined #maemo04:59
* xnt14 is back05:10
xnt14well actually I was back a looong time ago, just forgot to update :P05:10
*** b0unc3_ has quit IRC05:13
Luke-Jr.05:13
xnt14on #maemo?05:13
xnt14-.-05:13
xnt14...05:13
xnt14~seen ljrbot05:14
infobotljrbot <n=supybot-@2002:46bb:1a76:0:2b0:d0ff:fe49:6b31> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 106d 23h 18m 56s ago, saying: 'luke-jr: The operation succeeded.'.05:14
Luke-Jrxnt14: #anime05:14
* xnt14 doesn't feel like05:14
xnt14playinh05:14
xnt14*ing05:14
xnt14im deep in code right now05:14
* xnt14 goes back to his CoreJS framework05:15
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]05:16
*** anibal has joined #maemo05:17
*** crashanddie has quit IRC05:17
*** anibal has left #maemo05:20
kellhow to add a GtkWidget in plugin area05:22
Luke-Jrno.05:25
*** pcfe` has joined #maemo05:31
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:38
*** pcfe` is now known as pcfe05:38
*** eichi has quit IRC05:43
xnt14lol05:46
*** secureendpoints has joined #maemo05:54
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo05:55
*** tulkastaldo has joined #maemo06:09
*** mau has joined #maemo06:10
*** roue has joined #maemo06:28
*** zeroprog_ has joined #maemo06:29
*** t0h has quit IRC06:34
*** zeroprog has quit IRC06:43
*** jgoss_ has quit IRC06:45
*** jgoss_ has joined #maemo06:47
*** Firebird has quit IRC06:47
*** radic has joined #maemo06:48
*** elninja_ has joined #maemo06:51
*** jegp has left #maemo07:04
*** elninja has quit IRC07:07
*** tonikitoo has joined #maemo07:34
*** tank-man has quit IRC07:43
*** Sho_ has quit IRC07:50
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo07:52
*** macmaN6789 has joined #maemo07:56
*** macmaN67891 has joined #maemo07:56
*** macmaN6789 has quit IRC07:57
*** tulkastaldo has quit IRC07:58
*** stelleg has joined #maemo08:04
*** jnettlet_ has joined #maemo08:23
*** usicow has joined #maemo08:32
stelleganyone here do kernel debugging over serial console?08:34
*** kell has quit IRC08:35
usicowI log into my n810 via ssh using root@my_ip.. to use 'root' (the shell which is spawned with rootsh installed) do I need to add the root user to the sudoers?08:37
usicowthe reason I ask is because even if I use the rootsh command directly, I get permission denied on this script i've got:08:39
usicow./wake.py: Permission denied08:39
usicowthis is quite confusing.. even though I'm logged in as root, I need to run sudo /usr/bin/gainroot to get.. root..08:42
stellegyou sure you have execute flag enabled on wake.py?08:44
*** tank-man has joined #maemo08:45
*** peter_ has joined #maemo08:45
*** peter__ has joined #maemo08:45
usicowyep,. its set.08:45
*** tank-man has quit IRC08:45
*** peter_ has quit IRC08:45
*** peter__ has quit IRC08:45
usicowit'll run only if I run this: python2.5 ./wake.py08:45
*** tank-man has joined #maemo08:45
usicowI have another test script though..it too wont run, but it is not set as an executable. I'm trying to run chmod +x hello.py, but nothing happens. Do I need to do something special to chmod a file?08:47
usicowits strange.. any command I try to sudo, just gets ignored.09:05
*** johnx has joined #maemo09:11
johnxmorning all :)09:14
usicowmorning09:16
usicowcan I make it so that the 'Audio clips' directory that I see when I open up the media player points to a different directory? Like with a symbolic link?09:20
johnxI think some people have done that, but for some reason I thought I remembered someone having issues after doing that09:21
RST38hI did09:22
RST38hit works, mostly09:22
johnxm00f RST38h09:22
RST38hehlo johnx09:22
*** disco_stu has quit IRC09:23
usicowis anyone using usbcontrol?09:25
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC09:25
johnxI used it in the past09:26
usicowwhen run it, nothing happens..09:26
RST38hHehe, Palin quits09:27
johnxso, if you plug in a usb device after running it, that doesn't work?09:28
usicowno.. still doesnt work.09:30
usicowI've opened up the file /usr/share/applications/hildon/usbcontrol.desktop09:30
johnxcould be lots of reasons. what kind of device did you try plugging in?09:30
usicowand in there it says the command that it runs is: sudo run-standalone.sh /usr/bin/usbcontrol09:30
usicowthe strange thing is that for me, if I've got a terminal window open, all sudo commands are just ignored.09:31
usicowits a USB stick that I've plugged in to it.. I know it does work, because it has worked in the past. But I resently flashed the n810 and since then it hasnt worked.09:31
johnxah, no real idea then09:31
RST38hDoesn't it need power?09:33
RST38hIn this case, there is an applet in Extras that lets you power up things plugged into usb port09:33
johnxusbcontrol is the other way to do it09:33
johnxthey're all just running echo host > /sys/.../musb/mode or something09:34
johnxabout 3 out of 4 usb sticks I've tried on the N800 here work fine09:34
johnxthe oldest crappiest one i have demands more power for no discernible reason09:34
usicowever got an external hdd working?09:34
johnxnot gonna happen09:35
usicowhehe ok09:35
johnxneeds too much power at spin-up09:35
RST38h"Nokia Should Lock Up Ovi Store Developers In A Warehouse"09:36
usicowok, another question.. I asked ealier but got to reply. I've got a file called wake.py. I'd like to make it executable. chmod +x wake.py doesnt do anything though. Any ideas?09:36
johnxwhere is it?09:36
usicowon mmc109:37
johnxon a fat16/32 formatted sd card?09:37
johnxfat16/32 doesn't have file permissions09:37
johnxand it's mounted "noexec" IIRC09:37
usicowoh, true09:37
johnxjust move it to ~/09:38
johnxit's probably tiny anyways09:38
usicowok09:38
Luke-Jrjohnx: yes they do09:39
Luke-JrLinux just doesn't support them by default09:40
johnxfat file permissions? really?09:40
johnxthe only two I know about are "read only" and "archive"09:40
*** sphenxes has joined #maemo09:41
Luke-Jrthere is also "system"09:41
*** benh has joined #maemo09:41
Luke-Jrwhich the Linux fat driver will optionally translate to the POSIX "immutable"09:41
johnxok, let me s/ that to "unix-style" file permissions09:42
Luke-Jr09:42
*** filip42 has joined #maemo09:55
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo09:56
*** Jalen has joined #maemo10:05
*** zap has joined #maemo10:10
*** stelleg has quit IRC10:12
*** qwerty12_N810 has joined #maemo10:13
usicowhow do I add an entry in the Extra's section of installed applications to run a script to prevent me from having to open a terminal window?10:15
johnxI would look at the files installed by say, usbcontrol package10:17
johnxdpkg -L usbcontrol10:17
johnxand just copy the .desktop file and make it point to your own script10:18
usicowyeah I copied the .desktop file, but its not appearing.. maybe theres another config file that needs to be edited..10:19
johnxi think there's a cache you need to regenerate, or just reboot10:19
*** Jalen64 has quit IRC10:20
usicowok10:21
*** lbt has joined #maemo10:41
*** madhav has joined #maemo10:44
*** usicow has quit IRC10:47
*** drjnut has quit IRC10:48
*** drjnut has joined #maemo10:48
*** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo10:49
*** eichi has joined #maemo11:02
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC11:06
*** hannesw has joined #maemo11:14
*** stv0 has joined #maemo11:18
*** stv0 has left #maemo11:18
*** oespirit is now known as oespirit|away11:24
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo11:25
*** t0h has joined #maemo11:25
*** beavis has joined #maemo11:36
*** jnettlet_ has quit IRC11:43
*** krutt has quit IRC11:47
*** simon_ has quit IRC11:57
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC12:00
*** KurtKraut has joined #maemo12:01
*** oespirit|away is now known as oespirit12:01
oespirit~seen vimzard12:01
infobotvimzard <n=arunc@203.199.213.3> was last seen on IRC in channel #gsoc, 74d 14h 11m 49s ago, saying: 'sid0: :-P'.12:02
oespiritdrat12:02
*** bergie has joined #maemo12:11
*** hannesw has quit IRC12:12
*** Interocitor has joined #maemo12:15
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo12:15
*** bergie_ has joined #maemo12:16
*** L0cutus has quit IRC12:18
*** elninja_ has quit IRC12:22
*** eton has joined #maemo12:26
aquatixgood morning all12:31
*** oespirit is now known as rkirti|zZz12:32
*** bergie has quit IRC12:34
*** radic has quit IRC12:35
*** andre__ has quit IRC12:39
*** bergie_ has quit IRC12:39
*** andre__ has joined #maemo12:39
*** stiev3 has joined #maemo12:44
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo12:47
*** abner has joined #maemo12:48
*** eichi has quit IRC12:49
*** greentux has joined #maemo12:51
*** ttmrichter has joined #maemo12:52
*** eichi has joined #maemo12:52
*** abner has quit IRC12:54
*** birunko has joined #maemo12:57
*** andre__ has quit IRC12:58
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo13:00
*** birunko has quit IRC13:01
*** eocanha has joined #maemo13:06
*** KurtKraut has quit IRC13:07
*** qwerty12_N810 has quit IRC13:08
*** qwerty12_N810 has joined #maemo13:08
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo13:09
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC13:19
*** benh has quit IRC13:19
*** kkrusty has joined #maemo13:21
*** murrayc has joined #maemo13:22
*** KurtKraut has joined #maemo13:26
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo13:27
*** madha1 has joined #maemo13:40
*** pH5 has joined #maemo13:42
*** madha2 has joined #maemo13:42
*** madhav has quit IRC13:43
*** madha1 has quit IRC13:50
*** rkirti|zZz is now known as rkirti13:53
*** kkrusty has quit IRC13:55
*** man_in_pda has joined #maemo14:00
*** hellwolf-n810 has quit IRC14:00
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC14:01
*** oespirit has joined #maemo14:03
man_in_pdawell i FINALLY got this thing connected to a friend's WEP wifi14:04
man_in_pdawould have been a bit easier with working wardriving scripts :P14:05
*** stv0 has joined #maemo14:05
*** murrayc has quit IRC14:16
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo14:16
*** eggonlea has quit IRC14:18
*** wazd has joined #maemo14:19
wazdheya Maemo14:19
aquatixhey wazd14:21
*** rkirti has quit IRC14:21
*** madha2 has quit IRC14:22
*** stv0 has left #maemo14:27
*** t_s_o has quit IRC14:28
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo14:32
*** andre__ has joined #maemo14:37
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo14:42
*** Interocitor has quit IRC14:43
*** slonopotamus_ has joined #maemo14:44
RST38hheya wazd14:44
*** eichi has quit IRC15:00
*** andre__ has quit IRC15:03
*** man_in_pda has quit IRC15:03
*** radic has joined #maemo15:06
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC15:07
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC15:07
*** mandara has joined #maemo15:10
*** ignacius has joined #maemo15:15
*** eichi has joined #maemo15:26
*** kkrusty has joined #maemo15:26
*** Pyrhos has joined #maemo15:27
*** oespirit has quit IRC15:32
*** radic has quit IRC15:34
*** radic has joined #maemo15:39
*** murrayc has joined #maemo15:41
*** L0cutus has quit IRC15:42
*** slonopotamus_ is now known as slonopotamus15:46
*** VDVsx has quit IRC15:46
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo15:57
*** usicow has joined #maemo16:01
usicowis it possible for me to make a .desktop file to run a script? I've been trying to work it out but without success. I've got a .desktop file written, but no idea is added to the list of installed applications.16:01
*** murrayc has quit IRC16:02
*** murrayc has joined #maemo16:03
*** cheng_99 has joined #maemo16:03
cheng_99hi, does anyone know is there any network sniffer tools for n810?16:04
ShadowJKwhat do you want to do?16:05
cheng_99do something like tcpdump or wireshark stuffs16:05
slonopotamusShadowJK, to hack pentagon, of course16:05
ShadowJKi think tcpdump is in the tools repo16:06
cheng_99humm. i tried apt-cache, but not there16:06
cheng_99is there any other tools instead of tcpdump?16:07
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo16:07
*** kkrusty has left #maemo16:07
ShadowJKhttp://repository.maemo.org/ add the SDK repository... but whatver you do, don't do apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade with it, it'll brick your tablet16:08
ShadowJKor I guess you could click the browse link and get tcpdump and libpcap0.8 manually :)16:09
*** qwerty12_N810 has quit IRC16:11
*** qwerty12_N810 has joined #maemo16:12
cheng_99great. thanks!16:12
*** murrayc has quit IRC16:20
*** chenca1 has joined #maemo16:22
*** chenca1 has quit IRC16:22
*** jophish has joined #maemo16:22
*** chenca1 has joined #maemo16:23
*** Interocitor has joined #maemo16:23
*** pupnik has quit IRC16:25
*** hannesw has joined #maemo16:26
*** usicow has quit IRC16:27
*** alex-weej has quit IRC16:27
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo16:32
*** mandara has quit IRC16:50
*** rkirti has joined #maemo16:54
*** elninja has joined #maemo16:54
*** slonopotamus_ has joined #maemo16:55
*** b-man16 has joined #maemo17:03
*** stuart has joined #maemo17:03
b-man16hello17:03
* b-man16 HATES!!! windows vista17:04
locutusI COULDNT CARE LESS17:04
locutus(:17:04
b-man16lol17:04
b-man16i'm forced to use it untill my tablet gets fixed xP17:05
*** cheng_99 has quit IRC17:09
b-man16~seen xnt1417:09
infobotxnt14 is currently on #maemo (2d 14h 28m 41s). Has said a total of 35 messages. Is idling for 11h 22m 55s, last said: 'lol'.17:09
b-man16:P17:09
*** toggles_w has quit IRC17:11
*** hellwolf-n810 has joined #maemo17:11
*** rsalveti_ has joined #maemo17:15
*** kimitake_ has quit IRC17:15
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo17:15
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo17:16
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC17:17
*** stuart has quit IRC17:17
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo17:17
*** stiev3 has quit IRC17:18
*** FireFox16 has joined #maemo17:18
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC17:19
*** slonopotamus_ is now known as slonopotamus17:21
X-FadeQuim Gil is now doing his talk in GCDS.17:22
ShadowJKgcds?17:22
X-Fadebergie is posting the highlights on the go here: http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/maemo/view/1de68a4dc960c8468a411de941fbbade091992b992b/#1de68a5d9e828b868a511de9da0419e3866cfcdcfcd17:23
X-FadeShadowJK: Gran Canaria Desktop Summit17:23
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo17:24
X-FadeThe talk is about Harmattan already :)17:25
RST38h:(\17:26
*** bilboed-tipi has joined #maemo17:26
*** bilboed-tipi has quit IRC17:28
*** bilboed-tipi has joined #maemo17:28
*** b-man16 has quit IRC17:29
*** bilboed-tipi has quit IRC17:29
*** bilboed-tipi has joined #maemo17:29
RST38hXFade: nokia ditching gtk already???17:30
mgedminwouldn't surprise me17:30
mgedminwhy else buy trolltech?17:30
RST38hhm17:30
RST38hstill.17:30
mgedminI'll miss gtk17:30
mgedminmaybe17:31
mgedminas a user, I prefer gtk because the themes are prettier :)17:31
mgedminnokia will make the themes look the same17:31
mgedminas a programmer, I haven't written a single app for maemo during all those years anyway17:31
* mgedmin has a pygtk desktop app for uploading e-books into his nokia over sshfs with a single click, and /me should open-source it some day17:32
* guysoft42 just wrote a patch, that the developer didn't apply17:32
guysoft42.. i wonder where he is..17:32
RST38hanyways, as long as I can still use fb0 I am happ17:32
RST38hy17:32
guysoft42does anyone here know of a way to access Cannon cameras with maemo? i saw someone packaged stuff for it.. but its all commandline17:33
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC17:33
RST38hbtw17:34
RST38hthis means that everything they develop for fremantle is temporary17:34
ShadowJKif you set the camera to usb mass storage mode and connect it, it probably just works17:34
RST38hmaybe that is why it all looks so crappy17:34
RST38hShadow: unless his camera onlly supports that picture-gate-whatever mode17:35
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s17:35
ShadowJKthen it sucks :)17:35
X-FadeRST38h: I'm sure that GTK will still work in Harmattan. It would require a _big_ rewrite to move everything to qt?17:36
X-FadeWell, sure.. you never know. :)17:36
RST38hX-Fade: It will.17:39
*** hellwolf-n810 has joined #maemo17:39
RST38hX-Fade: Completely different toolkit, uses C++ object model, gtk+ uses GObjects17:39
RST38hX-Fade: So, not only the UI but everything else using GObjects will have to go17:39
RST38hX-Fade: Also good luck to them trying to make it work on both Symbian and Maemo without changes: the original S60 is designed for one-handed button operation, Maemo UI is horizontal, touch based, no buttons17:40
X-FadeRST38h: Well, maybe when that time comes, S60 is all touch too.17:41
RST38hX-Fade: Completely different form factors dictate differences in UI. I strongly doubt these guys will be able to reconcile the differences17:41
RST38hX-Fade: Yes, that would mean sacrificing S60 UI model for Maemo one17:41
X-FadeThere are a lot of options, hard to guess which ones they will take ;)17:42
*** FireFox16 has quit IRC17:42
RST38hX-Fade: But looking at the latest Fremantle stuff, I can't help but wonder if they are doing the opposite, i.e. changing Maemo UI for S60-like UI17:42
RST38hX-Fade: Not a lot, just 2. 3-4 if you are imaginative.17:42
RST38hWhich they do not seem to be, hence 2.17:42
X-FadeRST38h: Grudual moves towards a single point perhaps?17:42
ShadowJKaren't the form factors merging? ;-)17:44
RST38hX-Fade: my point is that there is no single point, because current form factors are different17:45
*** andre__ has joined #maemo17:45
RST38hX-Fade: You may try achieving semantic unity (kinda like HTML in FF and HTML in Lynx) but I doubt they will17:46
X-FadeRST38h: But new iterations aren't designed on current form factors :)17:46
ShadowJKIf you flip N810 upside down and draw green and red on the buttons, it looks almost like Tube17:46
RST38hX-Fade: Well, if they just go the tablet way (i.e. 5800/N97/etc) then it is more probable that they will ditch S6017:46
*** man_in_shack has quit IRC17:47
RST38hX-Fade: But then, you have to take into account the corporate politics, where S60 guys probably won't go without a fight17:47
*** man_in_shack has joined #maemo17:47
RST38hAnd may end up with Maemo resembling current S6017:48
*** bergie has joined #maemo17:53
*** rkirti has quit IRC17:55
wazdthe only UI that fits all devices is a console :)17:56
*** andre___ has joined #maemo17:56
*** ds3 has quit IRC17:56
X-Fadewazd: One window with one button should work too :)17:57
*** andre___ has quit IRC17:57
wazdX-Fade: well, rhen button should have a "make it awesome!" label)17:57
*** bergie has quit IRC17:57
*** andre___ has joined #maemo17:57
X-Fadewazd: "do what I want you to do" button.17:58
RST38hX-Fade: "KILL ALL" will do nicely17:59
RST38hIt is shorter, too18:00
JaffaNot having both Gtk & Qt officially supported during a transition seems odd.18:01
*** danilocesar has joined #maemo18:01
RST38hJaffa: We do not even have a real device during transition18:01
JaffaRST38h: Well, we can assume there will exist a device with Fremantle before a device with Harmattan comes out, I think18:02
RST38hSo, it is already beyond odd into stupid, really18:02
wazdI wonder if they'll show some of the harmattan screenshots or something18:02
wazdor maybe release Fremantle SDK "real" Beta for god sake18:03
JaffaWhat's a "real" beta?18:04
wazdJaffa: with full featured ui and stuff :)18:04
RST38hJaffa: "Real" beta is a beta that fully works, but not on a real device18:05
*** ttmrichter has quit IRC18:05
Jaffawazd: I'm perfectly happy with them holding some stuff back if it has little to no impact on most app. development since it means we've actually *had* an SDK suitably long enough18:05
JaffaI'm more upset about arbitrarily crap APIs than not having task switching, for example.18:06
*** nai1sirk has joined #maemo18:08
*** ignacius has quit IRC18:09
*** hellwolf-n810 has quit IRC18:13
*** andre__ has quit IRC18:13
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo18:14
* Jaffa would quite like an accelerometer simulator though18:14
JaffaSince I've got lots of code written18:14
*** andre___ has quit IRC18:14
wazdJaffa: there's not only task switching that's absent18:15
wazdJaffa: portrait mode for example18:15
RST38hwazd: Portrait mode will be absent from the final Fremantle18:15
RST38hwazd: (which is weird considering that they are planning a phone :))18:16
wazdno comments on this statement X(18:17
_berto_RST38h: what do you mean by absent ?18:20
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo18:24
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC18:26
*** Sho_ has quit IRC18:27
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo18:27
*** nai1sirk has quit IRC18:28
RST38hberto: Quim once mentioned that Fremantle is not going to support portrait mode on user level18:31
RST38hThere is a loophole provided for hackers to enable it, but as of now, even new widgets do not operate well in the portrait mode (they get cut off afaik)18:31
*** rkirti has joined #maemo18:32
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo18:32
GAN800X-Fade, have you have any word from Freenode yet?18:33
wazdRST38h: obvious solution is to make 2 different desktop setups for both modes18:33
X-FadeGAN800: Nope.18:33
GAN800Bleh, they sure love taking their goddamn time.18:34
wazdRST38h: you can even set different widgets for diggerent modes if you want18:34
*** kozak has joined #maemo18:34
*** blade_runner has joined #maemo18:34
X-FadeGAN800: It is probably just lost.18:34
GAN800I was rebuked for even considering asking about it last time I did.18:35
GAN800Not a great way to run an operation.18:35
*** crashanddie has quit IRC18:43
*** rkirti has quit IRC18:45
*** rkirti has joined #maemo18:46
*** filip42 has quit IRC18:50
*** Sho_ has quit IRC18:51
*** stelleg has joined #maemo19:01
_berto_RST38h: they don't get cut off, in fact some like HildonBanner of the menu have explicit support for portrait mode19:03
*** nai1sirk has joined #maemo19:03
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo19:03
_berto_but it's true that much more effort has been put in landscape mode19:05
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC19:05
*** cornhole has joined #maemo19:06
*** cornhole has quit IRC19:09
Jaffawazd: Portrait, as well as it will be supported in Fremantle, can be done in the beta SDK by using xrandr.19:12
*** eton_ has joined #maemo19:14
*** skibur has joined #maemo19:14
*** skibur has quit IRC19:17
*** skibur has joined #maemo19:17
*** hannesw has quit IRC19:17
*** myosound has joined #maemo19:19
*** abner has joined #maemo19:24
*** eton_ has quit IRC19:28
*** Interocitor has quit IRC19:30
*** Interocitor has joined #maemo19:30
*** eton has quit IRC19:33
*** mcpi has joined #maemo19:37
*** bergie has joined #maemo19:39
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo19:40
*** crashanddie_ is now known as crashanddie19:40
*** bergie has quit IRC19:42
*** rkirti has quit IRC19:46
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]19:46
*** ignacius has joined #maemo19:46
*** abner has quit IRC19:54
*** abner has joined #maemo19:55
*** alex-weej has quit IRC20:00
*** gentooer has joined #maemo20:03
*** mgedmin has quit IRC20:03
*** rkirti has joined #maemo20:04
*** tank-man has quit IRC20:08
*** SHADOW_V has joined #maemo20:08
*** cheng_99 has joined #maemo20:09
cheng_99does anyone know why my app launches from command line, but not from task menu?20:10
cheng_99it shows loading, but then didn't launch20:10
*** madhav has joined #maemo20:18
z4chhdoes anyone know why the link quality of wlan0 never seems to approach around 100%? i'm using a c program to check link quality using iwlib...and i can put my tablet right on my wireless access point and still got only around the 80s in link quality heh20:23
*** SHADOW_V has quit IRC20:26
*** abner has quit IRC20:39
*** abner has joined #maemo20:40
*** javispedro has joined #maemo20:40
xnt14brb20:40
* xnt14 mows the lawn20:40
*** kimitake_ has joined #maemo20:40
*** abner has quit IRC20:41
*** _berto_ has quit IRC20:43
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo20:44
*** dieb_ has joined #maemo20:46
*** ignacius has quit IRC20:47
*** flux has quit IRC20:48
*** cosmo has quit IRC21:00
*** hellwolf_ has joined #maemo21:01
*** cosmo has joined #maemo21:04
*** Sargun has quit IRC21:07
wazdxnt14: hope your name is not Job :D21:08
*** flux has joined #maemo21:10
*** yerga has joined #maemo21:12
*** hellwolf has quit IRC21:12
*** L0cutus has quit IRC21:13
* xnt14 is back21:14
RST38hwazd: Sorry, did not answer to your last comment, went out21:14
xnt14wazd, no, its not :P21:14
RST38hwazd: No, two different modes for widgets is not the right thing21:14
xnt14well, now my mom wants us to go on a picnic :P, I want to finish  up v3 of my site :P21:15
RST38hwazd: The right thing that is supposed to be on Nokia's task list is "make Maemo widgets scalable"21:15
RST38hwazd: The modes may apply to the layout engine though, because horizontal and vertical layouts may be different21:16
xnt14oh and if you see b-man show his this http://xceleo.com/21:16
xnt14err21:16
xnt14this: http://xceleo.org/network/21:16
wazdRST38h: well, ofcourse separate layouts is not the best solution in the world, but definitely better than nothing and its pretty easy to make I think21:17
wazdRST38h: I'd propose some advanced "zoom to fit" technology that will place widgets in coloumn in portrait mode with zooming them out to fit the with21:19
wazdRST38h: something like that :)21:19
RST38hwazd: except that they do not seem to care about external suggestions =( :)21:19
*** gomiam has joined #maemo21:21
*** gomiam has quit IRC21:22
wazdRST38h: maybe someday :)21:22
*** zeroprog_ has quit IRC21:22
*** cheng_99 has quit IRC21:25
*** hannesw has joined #maemo21:26
*** lmoura has quit IRC21:27
*** ferulo has joined #maemo21:32
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo21:35
*** ignacius has joined #maemo21:38
*** skibur has quit IRC21:42
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo21:43
thopiekarhi there21:43
thopiekarI want you to test something :P open your python interpreter and type in:21:44
thopiekarimport time21:44
thopiekartime.timezone/-180021:44
thopiekarit should print out the right timezone in which you are atm..21:45
thopiekar*please21:45
thopiekar;)21:45
xnt14ok guys , g2g, im going to a picnic :P21:46
*** xnt14 is now known as xnt14[away]21:46
thopiekarg2g?21:46
xnt14[away]got to go21:47
thopiekaraah :D21:47
thopiekark21:47
thopiekarcu21:47
javispedrothopiekar: prints "2" on mine, which is right (CEST UTC+2)21:47
thopiekarok i'm in UTC+2, too21:47
jaska"4" ... but im UTC+3 (EEST)21:47
thopiekarbecause of the summertime in germany21:47
thopiekarjaska: summertime?21:48
jaskayeah, eastern european summer time (finland)21:48
thopiekarworks! :P21:48
thopiekart21:48
thopiekarthanks you21:48
thopiekar:D21:48
philvEr, shouldn't that be time.timezone/(-3600) to get the actual timezone you're in21:50
*** kozak has quit IRC21:50
javispedroindeed, cause according to python docs time.timezone should return non-DST timezone21:51
thopiekarphilv: hehe you are right: time.timezone/-1/60/60 .. but it works somehow :D21:51
thopiekarjavispedro: *nod*21:51
thopiekarit has to return it with the dst!21:51
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo21:58
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo22:03
auntieNeoman, recently people keep randomly messaging me22:04
auntieNeoever since I joined maemo22:04
auntieNeobut I don't know if they're comming from #maemo for sure :s22:04
auntieNeomy name is usually near the top of the list :/22:04
*** Interocitor has quit IRC22:05
VDVsxcheck if those users are here or not :P22:05
*** myosound has quit IRC22:07
*** lmoura has joined #maemo22:08
*** lmoura has quit IRC22:09
*** Interocitor has joined #maemo22:13
*** lmoura has joined #maemo22:17
*** kimitake_ has quit IRC22:22
*** murrayc has joined #maemo22:23
*** gentooer has quit IRC22:23
*** eichi has quit IRC22:23
*** zeroprog has joined #maemo22:32
*** javispedro has quit IRC22:33
*** lmoura has quit IRC22:36
*** dieb_ has quit IRC22:39
*** simon_ has joined #maemo22:42
*** Interocitor has quit IRC22:44
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo22:45
*** Interocitor has joined #maemo22:47
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo22:49
*** b0unc3_ has quit IRC22:50
*** t0h has quit IRC22:59
*** t0h has joined #maemo22:59
*** zap has quit IRC23:01
*** stelleg has quit IRC23:01
*** zap has joined #maemo23:03
*** rsalveti has quit IRC23:08
*** rsalveti_ has quit IRC23:08
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo23:09
*** pupnik has joined #maemo23:10
wazdany vBulletin theming gurus in here?)23:16
*** rsalveti has quit IRC23:17
*** pokrKna has quit IRC23:17
*** philipl has quit IRC23:19
*** Mikho has quit IRC23:19
*** Mikho has joined #maemo23:19
*** murrayc has quit IRC23:19
*** kkrusty has joined #maemo23:22
*** madhav has quit IRC23:24
*** madhav has joined #maemo23:24
*** florian has joined #maemo23:25
*** jophish has quit IRC23:31
*** stelleg has joined #maemo23:31
*** hannesw has quit IRC23:31
*** smackpotat has joined #maemo23:33
*** madhav has quit IRC23:36
*** kimitake_ has joined #maemo23:39
*** skibur has joined #maemo23:39
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo23:41
*** smackpotat has quit IRC23:44
*** benh has joined #maemo23:47
*** jegp has joined #maemo23:50
*** jegp has left #maemo23:52

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.13.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!