| derf | mavhc: I don't even think you're listening. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Jaffa | YouTube's going to use <video>, but only with H264 as - apparently - Theora's not good enough quality at a given bitrate. | 00:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | derf, a common practice in this channel. | 00:00 |
| * RST38h cringes every time he sees Theora mentioned | 00:01 | |
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| RST38h | Is this BBC article related to the topic in any way: "Shoppers Burnt By Giant Chrome Balls" ? =) | 00:02 |
| mavhc | oh, you're on about java | 00:02 |
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| mavhc | is that just audio or video too? | 00:02 |
| derf | RST38h: Considering someone is usually saying something inaccurate or misleading, I often do, too. | 00:02 |
| derf | For example, Jaffa about YouTube. | 00:03 |
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| Jaffa | derf: In what way was what I said inaccurate or misleading? | 00:08 |
| RST38h | Folks, it looks weird when you argue about some stupid Youtube media player | 00:08 |
| Jaffa | derf: http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-June/020620.html | 00:08 |
| RST38h | Believe me it DOES NOT MATTER how Youtube plays videos. | 00:09 |
| derf | Jaffa: a) Chris DiBona talking out of his ass is not an official position of Google (they have not made an official position, publicly, about what they will or won't do) and b) http://people.xiph.org/~greg/video/ytcompare/comparison.html | 00:09 |
| mavhc | http://www.youtube.com/html5 | 00:09 |
| Jaffa | "Google [...] have indicated a belief that Ogg Theora's quality-per-bit is not yet suitable for the volume handled by YouTube" | 00:10 |
| derf | Yes. I belive that statement is inaccurate also, and it is unfortunate that it is in the current draft. | 00:10 |
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| mavhc | does this xiph ogg4quicktime thing make safari support ogg? | 00:11 |
| ShadowJK | That's a pretty damning condemnation from google, considering google is currently using one of the worst h264 encoders in existence :-) | 00:11 |
| RST38h | Quicktime. Puke. | 00:11 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Well, the have got lowest bitrates :) | 00:12 |
| derf | mavhc: Yes. | 00:12 |
| Jaffa | derf: I don't care one jot whether Theora is a good codec or not. So whether the technical accuracy is there or not, there have been indications from Google - and the current /html5 posted by mavhc also does this - that they aren't going to use Ogg on YouTube's <video> tags due to bandwidth concerns. | 00:12 |
| Luke-Jr | lol | 00:12 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: At which Theora probably sucks royally | 00:12 |
| Jaffa | Google have bandwidth concerns about Theora. This is accurate. Whether or not they are right to do so has no bearing on me being "inaccurate or misleading". | 00:12 |
| mavhc | also they don't want to reencode 18 billion hours of video again, with a slow encoder | 00:13 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, yes well, you can make any codec look good by tweaking an encoder for higher bitrates and using extreme bitrates :-) | 00:13 |
| RST38h | Ok, found info on Firefox 3.5 codecs. FireFox only supports OGG | 00:13 |
| mavhc | youtube/html5 doesn't work in chrome 2 | 00:13 |
| ShadowJK | The crappy h264 encoder they use is probably blazing fast, yeah | 00:13 |
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| derf | Jaffa: You may wish to keep reading further in that thread, specifically to http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-July/020701.html | 00:14 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: I personally do not see the point in YouTube videos | 00:14 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: So whatever their quality is, I am unlikely to watch them | 00:15 |
| derf | And I'm not accusing _you_ of intentionally deceiving people. You're simply repeating what has been said elsewhere. That doesn't make it more accurate or less misleading. | 00:15 |
| ShadowJK | I personally don't see the point in putting all this in the browser anyway :-) | 00:15 |
| mavhc | browser should be text only, images handled by image viewer | 00:15 |
| mavhc | like in the good old days | 00:15 |
| ShadowJK | where by browser I mean html or through plugins.. | 00:15 |
| derf | Just like I don't think cdibona talking out of his ass was malicious. It's just what he does. | 00:15 |
| ShadowJK | Certainly on N8x0 you're better off using image viewer :-) | 00:16 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Sure about it? =) | 00:16 |
| ShadowJK | The browser consumes huge amounts of ram to display an image | 00:16 |
| RST38h | ShadowJKL N8x0 image viewer can be easily crashed by a normally sized image from a modern digicam | 00:16 |
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| derf | mavhc: There's a page somewhere that demos Ogg support in lynx. | 00:16 |
| mavhc | keep them as jpeg in ram, decompress on the fly | 00:16 |
| ShadowJK | I've never seen it crash | 00:17 |
| ShadowJK | even with large images | 00:17 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Have swap enabled? | 00:17 |
| ShadowJK | yep | 00:17 |
| RST38h | That's why. | 00:17 |
| ShadowJK | well it doesn't crash, it runs out of memory :-) | 00:17 |
| ShadowJK | but the browser consumes even more for the same task | 00:17 |
| ShadowJK | dunno how quiver is on memory consumption, but atleast it doesn't stall on IO/CPU constantly :-) | 00:18 |
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| * RST38h recently found 5 copies of browserd happily hanging in memory | 00:18 | |
| ShadowJK | It's nice, it thumbnails the directory in the background when you're looking at a picture, when you tap next picture it scales up a thumbnail, then it seems to load the full picture and do a low-quality scaling of it, then it does high quality scale | 00:19 |
| RST38h | Maybe I should just stop trying to use MicroB... I quit on Modest and it felt good. Getting rid of MicroB should feel even better | 00:19 |
| ShadowJK | the picture emerges fast, and then the quality is refined | 00:19 |
| RST38h | Should try quiver... | 00:19 |
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| ShadowJK | Well Tear is fast, except it doesn't work on some pages, and it eats more memory than browserd | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | it's just more.. gradual about memory use | 00:20 |
| derf | RST38h: Wait, you _started_ using modest? | 00:20 |
| mavhc | I just want an easy way to install apps to mmc | 00:20 |
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| RST38h | Shadow: As long as I can kill it, it is fine | 00:20 |
| mavhc | what do you use instead of modest? | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | whereas browserd might suddenly decide it needs 20 meg more, and then releases it after rummaging through it awhile | 00:20 |
| RST38h | derf: Well I have been trying for a long while, even filed bugs | 00:20 |
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| RST38h | derf: That was probably stupid of me :( | 00:20 |
| RST38h | mavhc: Claws | 00:20 |
| derf | I tried claws. It uses too much memory. | 00:21 |
| RST38h | derf: it is ok. | 00:21 |
| derf | It was okay until it tried to check for new mail. Then it just started swapping forever. | 00:21 |
| mavhc | I only use modest to alert me to new mail and sometimes read new mail | 00:21 |
| RST38h | derf: you probably got lots of email :) | 00:21 |
| mavhc | with gmail imap | 00:21 |
| derf | RST38h: A little bit, yeah. | 00:21 |
| RST38h | mavhc: it does not do even THAT for me | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | I don't use any email on cellphone or tablet... or on any computer but my home computer :/ | 00:22 |
| ShadowJK | My email setup isn't very well suited for it :\ | 00:22 |
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| RST38h | mavhc: unstable wifi connection often puts it into some weird hung state | 00:22 |
| derf | Anyway, I just use webmail. | 00:22 |
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| * RST38h uses SSH | 00:22 | |
| derf | Slow, cumbersome, but it works, which is more than I can say for the alternatives. | 00:22 |
| RST38h | + PINE | 00:22 |
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| ShadowJK | oh, ssh+mutt would work for me :-) | 00:23 |
| RST38h | Ok, sleep time. | 00:23 |
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| mavhc | so safari just sends <video> to quicktime, but other browsers don't use OS video codecs, directshow etc? | 00:33 |
| mavhc | what about safari on windows without quicktime? | 00:33 |
| derf | Safari does not "just" send <video> to Quicktime. It actively disables large portions of Quicktime for security reasons. | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | IE would probably use OS codecs | 00:34 |
| mavhc | pity it doesn't do that for everyone | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | firefox and chrome probably don't have that luxury | 00:34 |
| derf | Right. Because IE wants to make sure your box is rooted. | 00:35 |
| mavhc | what's the linux version of directshow? | 00:35 |
| derf | gstreamer | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | There is none | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | on windows about the only thing that doesn't use OS codecs is vlc.. | 00:36 |
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| RichiH | is it normal for a n810 with maemo 2008.5 to become _really_ slow, unstable and hang frequently when you filled almost all of the internal storage? | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | jffs2 doesn't like getting full | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | needs breathing room | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | RichiH, consider: | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~boot-sd | 00:47 |
| infobot | methinks boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card | 00:47 |
| RichiH | how much space should i leave free? | 00:48 |
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| RichiH | on the internal storage, that is | 00:49 |
| RichiH | unfortunately, i do not have any mini SD cards, just micro & normal | 00:49 |
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| ShadowJK | i'm using micro in mine... with micro to mini adapter | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | I noticed slowness to boot at 15 meg free once :) | 00:51 |
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| mavhc | noone sells mini now | 00:51 |
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| xnt14 | http://xceleo.org/network/ :) | 01:55 |
| xnt14 | ~seen b-man16 | 01:55 |
| infobot | b-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 10h 18m 8s ago, saying: 'hello'. | 01:55 |
| xnt14 | argh where the hell is he :P | 01:55 |
| xnt14 | btw luke-jr, since you hate flash, http://processingjs.org/ :) | 01:56 |
| xnt14 | ill tell b-man to rewrite his gallery with it | 01:57 |
| xnt14 | or ill rewrite it | 01:57 |
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| mavhc | with processingjs you not longer have to kill flash to stop high cpu usage, you have to kill the whole page! | 02:07 |
| Luke-Jr | or click the Stop button | 02:08 |
| xnt14 | lol | 02:11 |
| xnt14 | http://xceleo.org/proto/processing/ | 02:12 |
| xnt14 | dont open that page on the nit | 02:12 |
| xnt14 | too slow :P | 02:12 |
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| * xnt14 eats dinner | brb | 02:52 | |
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| ken | Now i want to add a GtkWiget like drawing_area to plugin area,who encountered a similar sitruation? | 03:56 |
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| ken | any idea? | 04:05 |
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| * xnt14 is back | 05:10 | |
| xnt14 | well actually I was back a looong time ago, just forgot to update :P | 05:10 |
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| Luke-Jr | . | 05:13 |
| xnt14 | on #maemo? | 05:13 |
| xnt14 | -.- | 05:13 |
| xnt14 | ... | 05:13 |
| xnt14 | ~seen ljrbot | 05:14 |
| infobot | ljrbot <n=supybot-@2002:46bb:1a76:0:2b0:d0ff:fe49:6b31> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 106d 23h 18m 56s ago, saying: 'luke-jr: The operation succeeded.'. | 05:14 |
| Luke-Jr | xnt14: #anime | 05:14 |
| * xnt14 doesn't feel like | 05:14 | |
| xnt14 | playinh | 05:14 |
| xnt14 | *ing | 05:14 |
| xnt14 | im deep in code right now | 05:14 |
| * xnt14 goes back to his CoreJS framework | 05:15 | |
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| kell | how to add a GtkWidget in plugin area | 05:22 |
| Luke-Jr | no. | 05:25 |
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| xnt14 | lol | 05:46 |
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| stelleg | anyone here do kernel debugging over serial console? | 08:34 |
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| usicow | I log into my n810 via ssh using root@my_ip.. to use 'root' (the shell which is spawned with rootsh installed) do I need to add the root user to the sudoers? | 08:37 |
| usicow | the reason I ask is because even if I use the rootsh command directly, I get permission denied on this script i've got: | 08:39 |
| usicow | ./wake.py: Permission denied | 08:39 |
| usicow | this is quite confusing.. even though I'm logged in as root, I need to run sudo /usr/bin/gainroot to get.. root.. | 08:42 |
| stelleg | you sure you have execute flag enabled on wake.py? | 08:44 |
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| usicow | yep,. its set. | 08:45 |
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| usicow | it'll run only if I run this: python2.5 ./wake.py | 08:45 |
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| usicow | I have another test script though..it too wont run, but it is not set as an executable. I'm trying to run chmod +x hello.py, but nothing happens. Do I need to do something special to chmod a file? | 08:47 |
| usicow | its strange.. any command I try to sudo, just gets ignored. | 09:05 |
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| johnx | morning all :) | 09:14 |
| usicow | morning | 09:16 |
| usicow | can I make it so that the 'Audio clips' directory that I see when I open up the media player points to a different directory? Like with a symbolic link? | 09:20 |
| johnx | I think some people have done that, but for some reason I thought I remembered someone having issues after doing that | 09:21 |
| RST38h | I did | 09:22 |
| RST38h | it works, mostly | 09:22 |
| johnx | m00f RST38h | 09:22 |
| RST38h | ehlo johnx | 09:22 |
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| usicow | is anyone using usbcontrol? | 09:25 |
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| johnx | I used it in the past | 09:26 |
| usicow | when run it, nothing happens.. | 09:26 |
| RST38h | Hehe, Palin quits | 09:27 |
| johnx | so, if you plug in a usb device after running it, that doesn't work? | 09:28 |
| usicow | no.. still doesnt work. | 09:30 |
| usicow | I've opened up the file /usr/share/applications/hildon/usbcontrol.desktop | 09:30 |
| johnx | could be lots of reasons. what kind of device did you try plugging in? | 09:30 |
| usicow | and in there it says the command that it runs is: sudo run-standalone.sh /usr/bin/usbcontrol | 09:30 |
| usicow | the strange thing is that for me, if I've got a terminal window open, all sudo commands are just ignored. | 09:31 |
| usicow | its a USB stick that I've plugged in to it.. I know it does work, because it has worked in the past. But I resently flashed the n810 and since then it hasnt worked. | 09:31 |
| johnx | ah, no real idea then | 09:31 |
| RST38h | Doesn't it need power? | 09:33 |
| RST38h | In this case, there is an applet in Extras that lets you power up things plugged into usb port | 09:33 |
| johnx | usbcontrol is the other way to do it | 09:33 |
| johnx | they're all just running echo host > /sys/.../musb/mode or something | 09:34 |
| johnx | about 3 out of 4 usb sticks I've tried on the N800 here work fine | 09:34 |
| johnx | the oldest crappiest one i have demands more power for no discernible reason | 09:34 |
| usicow | ever got an external hdd working? | 09:34 |
| johnx | not gonna happen | 09:35 |
| usicow | hehe ok | 09:35 |
| johnx | needs too much power at spin-up | 09:35 |
| RST38h | "Nokia Should Lock Up Ovi Store Developers In A Warehouse" | 09:36 |
| usicow | ok, another question.. I asked ealier but got to reply. I've got a file called wake.py. I'd like to make it executable. chmod +x wake.py doesnt do anything though. Any ideas? | 09:36 |
| johnx | where is it? | 09:36 |
| usicow | on mmc1 | 09:37 |
| johnx | on a fat16/32 formatted sd card? | 09:37 |
| johnx | fat16/32 doesn't have file permissions | 09:37 |
| johnx | and it's mounted "noexec" IIRC | 09:37 |
| usicow | oh, true | 09:37 |
| johnx | just move it to ~/ | 09:38 |
| johnx | it's probably tiny anyways | 09:38 |
| usicow | ok | 09:38 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: yes they do | 09:39 |
| Luke-Jr | Linux just doesn't support them by default | 09:40 |
| johnx | fat file permissions? really? | 09:40 |
| johnx | the only two I know about are "read only" and "archive" | 09:40 |
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| Luke-Jr | there is also "system" | 09:41 |
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| Luke-Jr | which the Linux fat driver will optionally translate to the POSIX "immutable" | 09:41 |
| johnx | ok, let me s/ that to "unix-style" file permissions | 09:42 |
| Luke-Jr | ☺ | 09:42 |
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| usicow | how do I add an entry in the Extra's section of installed applications to run a script to prevent me from having to open a terminal window? | 10:15 |
| johnx | I would look at the files installed by say, usbcontrol package | 10:17 |
| johnx | dpkg -L usbcontrol | 10:17 |
| johnx | and just copy the .desktop file and make it point to your own script | 10:18 |
| usicow | yeah I copied the .desktop file, but its not appearing.. maybe theres another config file that needs to be edited.. | 10:19 |
| johnx | i think there's a cache you need to regenerate, or just reboot | 10:19 |
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| usicow | ok | 10:21 |
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| oespirit | ~seen vimzard | 12:01 |
| infobot | vimzard <n=arunc@203.199.213.3> was last seen on IRC in channel #gsoc, 74d 14h 11m 49s ago, saying: 'sid0: :-P'. | 12:02 |
| oespirit | drat | 12:02 |
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| aquatix | good morning all | 12:31 |
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| man_in_pda | well i FINALLY got this thing connected to a friend's WEP wifi | 14:04 |
| man_in_pda | would have been a bit easier with working wardriving scripts :P | 14:05 |
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| wazd | heya Maemo | 14:19 |
| aquatix | hey wazd | 14:21 |
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| RST38h | heya wazd | 14:44 |
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| usicow | is it possible for me to make a .desktop file to run a script? I've been trying to work it out but without success. I've got a .desktop file written, but no idea is added to the list of installed applications. | 16:01 |
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| cheng_99 | hi, does anyone know is there any network sniffer tools for n810? | 16:04 |
| ShadowJK | what do you want to do? | 16:05 |
| cheng_99 | do something like tcpdump or wireshark stuffs | 16:05 |
| slonopotamus | ShadowJK, to hack pentagon, of course | 16:05 |
| ShadowJK | i think tcpdump is in the tools repo | 16:06 |
| cheng_99 | humm. i tried apt-cache, but not there | 16:06 |
| cheng_99 | is there any other tools instead of tcpdump? | 16:07 |
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| ShadowJK | http://repository.maemo.org/ add the SDK repository... but whatver you do, don't do apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade with it, it'll brick your tablet | 16:08 |
| ShadowJK | or I guess you could click the browse link and get tcpdump and libpcap0.8 manually :) | 16:09 |
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| cheng_99 | great. thanks! | 16:12 |
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| b-man16 | hello | 17:03 |
| * b-man16 HATES!!! windows vista | 17:04 | |
| locutus | I COULDNT CARE LESS | 17:04 |
| locutus | (: | 17:04 |
| b-man16 | lol | 17:04 |
| b-man16 | i'm forced to use it untill my tablet gets fixed xP | 17:05 |
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| b-man16 | ~seen xnt14 | 17:09 |
| infobot | xnt14 is currently on #maemo (2d 14h 28m 41s). Has said a total of 35 messages. Is idling for 11h 22m 55s, last said: 'lol'. | 17:09 |
| b-man16 | :P | 17:09 |
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| X-Fade | Quim Gil is now doing his talk in GCDS. | 17:22 |
| ShadowJK | gcds? | 17:22 |
| X-Fade | bergie is posting the highlights on the go here: http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/maemo/view/1de68a4dc960c8468a411de941fbbade091992b992b/#1de68a5d9e828b868a511de9da0419e3866cfcdcfcd | 17:23 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: Gran Canaria Desktop Summit | 17:23 |
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| X-Fade | The talk is about Harmattan already :) | 17:25 |
| RST38h | :(\ | 17:26 |
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| RST38h | XFade: nokia ditching gtk already??? | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | wouldn't surprise me | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | why else buy trolltech? | 17:30 |
| RST38h | hm | 17:30 |
| RST38h | still. | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | I'll miss gtk | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | maybe | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | as a user, I prefer gtk because the themes are prettier :) | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | nokia will make the themes look the same | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | as a programmer, I haven't written a single app for maemo during all those years anyway | 17:31 |
| * mgedmin has a pygtk desktop app for uploading e-books into his nokia over sshfs with a single click, and /me should open-source it some day | 17:32 | |
| * guysoft42 just wrote a patch, that the developer didn't apply | 17:32 | |
| guysoft42 | .. i wonder where he is.. | 17:32 |
| RST38h | anyways, as long as I can still use fb0 I am happ | 17:32 |
| RST38h | y | 17:32 |
| guysoft42 | does anyone here know of a way to access Cannon cameras with maemo? i saw someone packaged stuff for it.. but its all commandline | 17:33 |
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| RST38h | btw | 17:34 |
| RST38h | this means that everything they develop for fremantle is temporary | 17:34 |
| ShadowJK | if you set the camera to usb mass storage mode and connect it, it probably just works | 17:34 |
| RST38h | maybe that is why it all looks so crappy | 17:34 |
| RST38h | Shadow: unless his camera onlly supports that picture-gate-whatever mode | 17:35 |
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| ShadowJK | then it sucks :) | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: I'm sure that GTK will still work in Harmattan. It would require a _big_ rewrite to move everything to qt? | 17:36 |
| X-Fade | Well, sure.. you never know. :) | 17:36 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: It will. | 17:39 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: Completely different toolkit, uses C++ object model, gtk+ uses GObjects | 17:39 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: So, not only the UI but everything else using GObjects will have to go | 17:39 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Also good luck to them trying to make it work on both Symbian and Maemo without changes: the original S60 is designed for one-handed button operation, Maemo UI is horizontal, touch based, no buttons | 17:40 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Well, maybe when that time comes, S60 is all touch too. | 17:41 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Completely different form factors dictate differences in UI. I strongly doubt these guys will be able to reconcile the differences | 17:41 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Yes, that would mean sacrificing S60 UI model for Maemo one | 17:41 |
| X-Fade | There are a lot of options, hard to guess which ones they will take ;) | 17:42 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: But looking at the latest Fremantle stuff, I can't help but wonder if they are doing the opposite, i.e. changing Maemo UI for S60-like UI | 17:42 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Not a lot, just 2. 3-4 if you are imaginative. | 17:42 |
| RST38h | Which they do not seem to be, hence 2. | 17:42 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Grudual moves towards a single point perhaps? | 17:42 |
| ShadowJK | aren't the form factors merging? ;-) | 17:44 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: my point is that there is no single point, because current form factors are different | 17:45 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: You may try achieving semantic unity (kinda like HTML in FF and HTML in Lynx) but I doubt they will | 17:46 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: But new iterations aren't designed on current form factors :) | 17:46 |
| ShadowJK | If you flip N810 upside down and draw green and red on the buttons, it looks almost like Tube | 17:46 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Well, if they just go the tablet way (i.e. 5800/N97/etc) then it is more probable that they will ditch S60 | 17:46 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: But then, you have to take into account the corporate politics, where S60 guys probably won't go without a fight | 17:47 |
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| RST38h | And may end up with Maemo resembling current S60 | 17:48 |
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| wazd | the only UI that fits all devices is a console :) | 17:56 |
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| X-Fade | wazd: One window with one button should work too :) | 17:57 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: well, rhen button should have a "make it awesome!" label) | 17:57 |
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| X-Fade | wazd: "do what I want you to do" button. | 17:58 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: "KILL ALL" will do nicely | 17:59 |
| RST38h | It is shorter, too | 18:00 |
| Jaffa | Not having both Gtk & Qt officially supported during a transition seems odd. | 18:01 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: We do not even have a real device during transition | 18:01 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Well, we can assume there will exist a device with Fremantle before a device with Harmattan comes out, I think | 18:02 |
| RST38h | So, it is already beyond odd into stupid, really | 18:02 |
| wazd | I wonder if they'll show some of the harmattan screenshots or something | 18:02 |
| wazd | or maybe release Fremantle SDK "real" Beta for god sake | 18:03 |
| Jaffa | What's a "real" beta? | 18:04 |
| wazd | Jaffa: with full featured ui and stuff :) | 18:04 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: "Real" beta is a beta that fully works, but not on a real device | 18:05 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: I'm perfectly happy with them holding some stuff back if it has little to no impact on most app. development since it means we've actually *had* an SDK suitably long enough | 18:05 |
| Jaffa | I'm more upset about arbitrarily crap APIs than not having task switching, for example. | 18:06 |
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| * Jaffa would quite like an accelerometer simulator though | 18:14 | |
| Jaffa | Since I've got lots of code written | 18:14 |
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| wazd | Jaffa: there's not only task switching that's absent | 18:15 |
| wazd | Jaffa: portrait mode for example | 18:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: Portrait mode will be absent from the final Fremantle | 18:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: (which is weird considering that they are planning a phone :)) | 18:16 |
| wazd | no comments on this statement X( | 18:17 |
| _berto_ | RST38h: what do you mean by absent ? | 18:20 |
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| RST38h | berto: Quim once mentioned that Fremantle is not going to support portrait mode on user level | 18:31 |
| RST38h | There is a loophole provided for hackers to enable it, but as of now, even new widgets do not operate well in the portrait mode (they get cut off afaik) | 18:31 |
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| GAN800 | X-Fade, have you have any word from Freenode yet? | 18:33 |
| wazd | RST38h: obvious solution is to make 2 different desktop setups for both modes | 18:33 |
| X-Fade | GAN800: Nope. | 18:33 |
| GAN800 | Bleh, they sure love taking their goddamn time. | 18:34 |
| wazd | RST38h: you can even set different widgets for diggerent modes if you want | 18:34 |
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| X-Fade | GAN800: It is probably just lost. | 18:34 |
| GAN800 | I was rebuked for even considering asking about it last time I did. | 18:35 |
| GAN800 | Not a great way to run an operation. | 18:35 |
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| _berto_ | RST38h: they don't get cut off, in fact some like HildonBanner of the menu have explicit support for portrait mode | 19:03 |
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| _berto_ | but it's true that much more effort has been put in landscape mode | 19:05 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: Portrait, as well as it will be supported in Fremantle, can be done in the beta SDK by using xrandr. | 19:12 |
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| cheng_99 | does anyone know why my app launches from command line, but not from task menu? | 20:10 |
| cheng_99 | it shows loading, but then didn't launch | 20:10 |
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| z4chh | does anyone know why the link quality of wlan0 never seems to approach around 100%? i'm using a c program to check link quality using iwlib...and i can put my tablet right on my wireless access point and still got only around the 80s in link quality heh | 20:23 |
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| xnt14 | brb | 20:40 |
| * xnt14 mows the lawn | 20:40 | |
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| wazd | xnt14: hope your name is not Job :D | 21:08 |
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| * xnt14 is back | 21:14 | |
| RST38h | wazd: Sorry, did not answer to your last comment, went out | 21:14 |
| xnt14 | wazd, no, its not :P | 21:14 |
| RST38h | wazd: No, two different modes for widgets is not the right thing | 21:14 |
| xnt14 | well, now my mom wants us to go on a picnic :P, I want to finish up v3 of my site :P | 21:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: The right thing that is supposed to be on Nokia's task list is "make Maemo widgets scalable" | 21:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: The modes may apply to the layout engine though, because horizontal and vertical layouts may be different | 21:16 |
| xnt14 | oh and if you see b-man show his this http://xceleo.com/ | 21:16 |
| xnt14 | err | 21:16 |
| xnt14 | this: http://xceleo.org/network/ | 21:16 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, ofcourse separate layouts is not the best solution in the world, but definitely better than nothing and its pretty easy to make I think | 21:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'd propose some advanced "zoom to fit" technology that will place widgets in coloumn in portrait mode with zooming them out to fit the with | 21:19 |
| wazd | RST38h: something like that :) | 21:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: except that they do not seem to care about external suggestions =( :) | 21:19 |
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| wazd | RST38h: maybe someday :) | 21:22 |
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| thopiekar | hi there | 21:43 |
| thopiekar | I want you to test something :P open your python interpreter and type in: | 21:44 |
| thopiekar | import time | 21:44 |
| thopiekar | time.timezone/-1800 | 21:44 |
| thopiekar | it should print out the right timezone in which you are atm.. | 21:45 |
| thopiekar | *please | 21:45 |
| thopiekar | ;) | 21:45 |
| xnt14 | ok guys , g2g, im going to a picnic :P | 21:46 |
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| thopiekar | g2g? | 21:46 |
| xnt14[away] | got to go | 21:47 |
| thopiekar | aah :D | 21:47 |
| thopiekar | k | 21:47 |
| thopiekar | cu | 21:47 |
| javispedro | thopiekar: prints "2" on mine, which is right (CEST UTC+2) | 21:47 |
| thopiekar | ok i'm in UTC+2, too | 21:47 |
| jaska | "4" ... but im UTC+3 (EEST) | 21:47 |
| thopiekar | because of the summertime in germany | 21:47 |
| thopiekar | jaska: summertime? | 21:48 |
| jaska | yeah, eastern european summer time (finland) | 21:48 |
| thopiekar | works! :P | 21:48 |
| thopiekar | t | 21:48 |
| thopiekar | thanks you | 21:48 |
| thopiekar | :D | 21:48 |
| philv | Er, shouldn't that be time.timezone/(-3600) to get the actual timezone you're in | 21:50 |
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| javispedro | indeed, cause according to python docs time.timezone should return non-DST timezone | 21:51 |
| thopiekar | philv: hehe you are right: time.timezone/-1/60/60 .. but it works somehow :D | 21:51 |
| thopiekar | javispedro: *nod* | 21:51 |
| thopiekar | it has to return it with the dst! | 21:51 |
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| auntieNeo | man, recently people keep randomly messaging me | 22:04 |
| auntieNeo | ever since I joined maemo | 22:04 |
| auntieNeo | but I don't know if they're comming from #maemo for sure :s | 22:04 |
| auntieNeo | my name is usually near the top of the list :/ | 22:04 |
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| VDVsx | check if those users are here or not :P | 22:05 |
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| wazd | any vBulletin theming gurus in here?) | 23:16 |
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