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| johnsq | how can i connect with cx3110x and iwconfig to hidden ssid? | 00:04 |
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| andre__ | GAN8001, around? | 00:06 |
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| jeremiah_food | thopiekar | 00:38 |
| jeremiah_food | thopiekar: ping | 00:38 |
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| xnt14 | b-man died.....again xD | 01:02 |
| xnt14 | this is what happens when he tries to upload a 800Mb repo to a remote server :P | 01:03 |
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| lcuk_coding | does anyone know why inotify would be failing. does it depend on a specific update | 01:18 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk_coding: I just used the example program from http://ik.homelinux.org/index.rhtml/projects/c/inotify on my N810 and it works fine. | 01:26 |
| jeremiah | lcuk_coding: inotify just rocks - it must be you | 01:26 |
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| jeremiah | qwerty12_N810: What are you using it for? | 01:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I'm not using it :) - I just wanted to see if it really didn't work under Diablo | 01:27 |
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| arpia49 | hello everybody, I'm having some issue with gnome_vfs_seek. With an example that I took from maemo api. As I'm new programing maemo I really don't think it's a bug, but I find some (little) information about this funcktion not working at fedora. Can someone help me to try this example? (sorry about my english) | 01:37 |
| jeremiah | arpia49: Your English is good. :) | 01:41 |
| jeremiah | What error messages are you getting? | 01:41 |
| arpia49 | jeremiah: well... thanks :) I'm not getting an error, it's just the example is not working. To sum it up: it sould append a chunk of bytes to a file, but actually it's not apending, just replacing. | 01:44 |
| arpia49 | *should | 01:44 |
| johnsq | open append, or seek to end. | 01:45 |
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| arpia49 | johnsq: the example in the api page seems to be seeking to the end, but... does not work. | 01:46 |
| johnsq | debug, there should be a tell functions. you can test if seek works. | 01:48 |
| arpia49 | i've found if something similar has ever been reported to mailing list or bugzilla... but i only get some similar bug under fedora | 01:48 |
| arpia49 | johnsq: i'm going to debug again to be really sure, but i think after call gnome_vfs_seek the handler does not change | 01:49 |
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| arpia49 | i'm using eclipse. As I see, the write_handle's value does not change after calling gnome_vfs_seek. I'm not sure if I can check something more. | 01:54 |
| johnsq | any error return code, seek after end of file? | 01:57 |
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| arpia49 | johnsq: the result is GNOME_VFS_OK, as anything went well. I expected write_handler value should, change after gnome_vfs_seek. shouldn't it? | 02:01 |
| johnsq | yes atleast it should store the position | 02:01 |
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| arpia49 | johnsq: i don't see any change after seeking but i see a change after open (in read_handle) and after create (in write_handle) | 02:04 |
| johnsq | sorry i don't know anything about gnome_vfs, but you can try looking what happen with strace. | 02:06 |
| arpia49 | johnsq: thank you very much for your time and guidance. At least I'm more sure that i'm looking in the right place. | 02:07 |
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| johnsq | this failures are hard to find. sometimes it is gcc code generator failing. | 02:09 |
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| arpia49 | johnsq: mmmm... i'll be lloking a little bit more and if don't see the light i will open a bug, maybe someone it's more prepared than me to find it. | 02:14 |
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| guysoft422 | hey, is nitdroid usable in any way? is it in progress at all? | 02:35 |
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| coeus82 | Hey, does Maemo use webkit framework? I now Tear is a webkit browser, but is the webkit framework compatible with Maemo? I'm not sure if Tear using webkit answers my question | 03:42 |
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| tonikitoo | coeus82, webkit is buildable in maemo, yeah | 04:02 |
| xnt14 | yup | 04:02 |
| tonikitoo | google for "webkit maemo" and it will get you a couples of entries | 04:02 |
| * xnt14 guesses that penguinba is penguinbait? :P | 04:03 | |
| lcuk_coding | yeah, tux was hungry | 04:03 |
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| xnt14 | xD | 04:03 |
| penguinbait | ;) | 04:03 |
| xnt14 | :) | 04:04 |
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| xnt14 | :) | 04:04 |
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| xnt14 | hello b-man16 | 04:04 |
| b-man16 | :) | 04:04 |
| b-man16 | hi | 04:04 |
| xnt14 | hi :) | 04:04 |
| penguinbait | hey bman!! | 04:05 |
| xnt14 | usm is done btw | 04:05 |
| xnt14 | http://xceleo.org/usm_complete.png | 04:05 |
| b-man16 | hello penguinbait xD | 04:05 |
| xnt14 | and it works :) | 04:05 |
| b-man16 | awesome :) | 04:05 |
| xnt14 | :) | 04:05 |
| xnt14 | ill put it in the full unity release | 04:06 |
| xnt14 | usm = unity server manager btw :P | 04:06 |
| xnt14 | and thats unity-menu on the bottom, modified dmenu | 04:06 |
| xnt14 | brb | 04:06 |
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| * b-man16 resumes the re-location of his ubuntu-n8x0 repo | 04:09 | |
| b-man16 | brb | 04:11 |
| xnt14 | im back | 04:13 |
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| xnt14 | lol | 04:14 |
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| * xnt14 bites penguinbait | 04:16 | |
| xnt14 | look at his hostname | 04:16 |
| xnt14 | bite-me :P | 04:16 |
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| b-man16 | (ô_õ) | 04:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre__, ping timeout I guess? | 05:40 |
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| * xnt14 is back | 06:09 | |
| xnt14 | damn | 06:09 |
| xnt14 | lol | 06:09 |
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| EdLin | xnt14: hi, I got my n810 and after the firmware upgrade am loving it. | 06:34 |
| xnt14 | EdLin, :) | 06:46 |
| EdLin | it makes my iPod Touch look like a toy. ;-) | 06:47 |
| xnt14 | awesome | 06:47 |
| xnt14 | lol | 06:47 |
| xnt14 | well, now I'm getting an iPhone 3G S and n900 (once its out) so then I don't have to carry blackberry + n810 + ipod touch, just n900 + iPhone | 06:47 |
| EdLin | you're going to have both t-mobile and at&t accounts? | 06:48 |
| xnt14 | now once iphone-dev unlocks the 3G S... | 06:48 |
| xnt14 | :P | 06:48 |
| xnt14 | no I hate att | 06:48 |
| xnt14 | att = ripoff | 06:48 |
| EdLin | I'm on Sprint. I tether my n810 to my centro | 06:48 |
| xnt14 | then I'll try to enable tethering | 06:48 |
| xnt14 | the iphone tether device shows up on a mac as a network interface | 06:49 |
| xnt14 | so usb host mode? | 06:49 |
| xnt14 | or standard bt tether | 06:49 |
| EdLin | yeah, if you tether a mac to something via USB it appears as a dial-up modem. | 06:49 |
| xnt14 | :) | 06:49 |
| xnt14 | but | 06:49 |
| * xnt14 doesn't like to physically tether his iphone to his n900 :P | 06:50 | |
| xnt14 | looks weird | 06:50 |
| EdLin | the n900 is a 3g device | 06:50 |
| xnt14 | since everyone thinks my n900 is a phone | 06:50 |
| EdLin | it almost is | 06:50 |
| xnt14 | well, im not paying for an extra contract :P | 06:50 |
| EdLin | I thought the main advantage of the n900 was the 3g? It has a smaller screen, after all. | 06:51 |
| xnt14 | imo main advantage of the n900 is omap3 and the accel graphics | 06:51 |
| xnt14 | :P | 06:51 |
| xnt14 | oh and the hi def camera | 06:51 |
| EdLin | I'm not interested in the n900 because of that, I already have a 3g device | 06:52 |
| EdLin | and a contract that isn't on t-mobile | 06:52 |
| xnt14 | :P | 06:52 |
| xnt14 | brb | 06:52 |
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| xnt14 | im back | 07:24 |
| EdLin | hi | 07:26 |
| EdLin | I've got to go to bed, good night, and happy tableteering. ;-) | 07:27 |
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| xnt14 | :) | 07:28 |
| xnt14 | bye | 07:28 |
| xnt14 | oops too late | 07:28 |
| xnt14 | ok then | 07:28 |
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| * xnt14 plays around with /etc/init.d/hildon-desktop stop ; ssh -l xnt 10.5.1.4 then running some x apps :P how about compiz on the nit :P | 07:29 | |
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| xnt14 | ROFL "ssh -A -X -T -n "10.5.1.4" /usr/bin/x-session-manager" starts compiz for me on my nit, (compiz is rendering on my xps) xD | 07:33 |
| xnt14 | and now unlock keyring is bothering me and I can't enter my password because of no hildon-input-method present | 07:35 |
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| bobpaul | is there a way to control volume from shell script? or better yet, stop playback of 'internet radio' applet? | 07:39 |
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| bobpaul | ok, i found volume here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Personal_Menu_tips_and_tricks . stopping playback would be much better though, if anyone has ideas. | 07:44 |
| xnt14 | bobpaul, ask qwerty12 | 07:47 |
| bobpaul | hmm media-server restarts itself when needed, so i guess i can just kill it. easier than i thought | 07:47 |
| xnt14 | he knows all of that stuff | 07:47 |
| xnt14 | xD | 07:47 |
| xnt14 | ok then | 07:47 |
| b-man16 | lol | 07:48 |
| bobpaul | but i'll keep him in mind next time, thanks | 07:48 |
| bobpaul | i was thinking i'd have to send dbus messages or something. i seem to remember a shell utility to do that | 07:48 |
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| xnt14 | yup I think its dbus_send or something, qwerty probably memorized the maemo fs :P | 07:50 |
| * xnt14 just pinged qwerty12 | 07:51 | |
| xnt14 | :) | 07:51 |
| * xnt14 spins the compiz cube on his nit :P | 07:52 | |
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| xnt14 | I have to go to sleep, if you see b-man16 tell him that ill try to sneak on irc xD | 08:07 |
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| mib_ki4ip4 | hello? | 08:36 |
| mib_ki4ip4 | ok. where does micrib store it's temporary internet files? | 08:36 |
| * mib_ki4ip4 really needs to know | 08:37 | |
| mib_ki4ip4 | microb the ddefault browser | 08:38 |
| timeless_mbp | um | 08:41 |
| timeless_mbp | /tmp ? | 08:41 |
| timeless_mbp | we don't have disk cache | 08:41 |
| timeless_mbp | and it's micrOb not micrIb | 08:41 |
| timeless_mbp | alternatively i suppose you could say /dev/ram or something :) | 08:42 |
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| thux | morning | 09:10 |
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| thux | in data recovery sense is flashing tablet same than mkfs in hdd or is it like dd in hdd? can you easily recover old data after flashing? | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | good morning | 09:24 |
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| pupnik | is there any way to do crossplatform video calls ? | 10:02 |
| pupnik | i want to show person thing with camera | 10:02 |
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| pupnik | quick and dirty python app to share cam snaps online? | 10:06 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: gizmo? :) | 10:07 |
| timeless_mbp | there once was a windows video call client from nokia for use w/ the n8x0 | 10:07 |
| pupnik | hm | 10:07 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly, i think they stopped offering it | 10:07 |
| timeless_mbp | but gizmo should work | 10:08 |
| pupnik | gizmo on winxp can do vid? | 10:08 |
| pupnik | their linux client didnt | 10:08 |
| pupnik | ty will try this | 10:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://gizmo5.com/pc/products/features/video-calling/ | 10:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | so, the mac gizmo5 also has video support :) | 10:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/gizmo%204%20or%205.png | 10:35 |
| timeless_mbp | what version is that? | 10:35 |
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| Proteous | version 5.... | 10:42 |
| Proteous | er, 4.0 | 10:42 |
| Proteous | duh | 10:43 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | morning jaffa | 10:45 |
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| Macer | hello | 10:58 |
| pupnik | hi | 10:58 |
| Macer | long night | 10:59 |
| pupnik | doing what? | 10:59 |
| Macer | want to go home and wake my son up to go to the beach today | 10:59 |
| Macer | working | 10:59 |
| Macer | about to leave in a little while | 10:59 |
| Macer | have to do something to my fileserver first | 11:00 |
| Luke-Jr_ | hide the cp? | 11:00 |
| Macer | so probably wont go to the beach til saturday | 11:00 |
| Macer | lol | 11:00 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr_: maybe if i could figure out how to encipher a zfs | 11:00 |
| Luke-Jr_ | Macer: you had better be joking -.-;; | 11:01 |
| Macer | hahaha | 11:01 |
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| Luke-Jr_ | why are storms over so quick? | 11:01 |
| Macer | it needs to rain here | 11:02 |
| Macer | it is so humid outside | 11:02 |
| Luke-Jr_ | I opened the window cuz of the storm | 11:03 |
| Luke-Jr_ | but it stopped :< | 11:03 |
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| Macer | lol | 11:04 |
| Macer | i have the ac set to -937548.0E | 11:05 |
| Macer | fuck the planet | 11:05 |
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| Macer | i hope the ice caps do melt | 11:05 |
| Macer | i think the green scientists are full of shit | 11:05 |
| pupnik | yup | 11:06 |
| Macer | in order to keep their multi billion dollar conglomerate sponsership | 11:06 |
| pupnik | watermelons | 11:06 |
| Macer | that sells something green | 11:06 |
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| Macer | like solar panels | 11:06 |
| Macer | which probably cause more polution making the raw materials than running a city on coal | 11:07 |
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| Macer | or hybrid cars | 11:08 |
| Macer | with their toxic batteries | 11:08 |
| Macer | what a racket | 11:08 |
| pupnik | a 1988 toyota starlet is greener than a prius | 11:08 |
| pupnik | but we are OT | 11:08 |
| Luke-Jr_ | screw coal | 11:09 |
| Luke-Jr_ | we need more nuclear plants | 11:09 |
| Macer | tell owners of a prius what the chinese slave laborer was thinking when he was stuck in some chemical plant processing nickel | 11:09 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr_: there was 1 major meltdown and a few minor ones and people think nuclear is hiroshima | 11:10 |
| Macer | there is a brand new nuclear power plant in colorado | 11:10 |
| Macer | it has never been turned on | 11:11 |
| pupnik | as long as waste costs are paid up front... | 11:11 |
| pupnik | not passed down 500,000 years | 11:11 |
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| Macer | yah. too bad uranium is radioactive | 11:11 |
| Macer | lol | 11:12 |
| Macer | there is always the option to ship it off to the sun | 11:12 |
| pupnik | at what cost | 11:12 |
| Macer | who cares. make the power industry pay for it | 11:12 |
| pupnik | you mean the consumer | 11:13 |
| wnd | there is always the option that the transport fails to leave earth gravity | 11:13 |
| Macer | they will save billions using nuclear power | 11:13 |
| pupnik | as long as waste costs are paid up front... | 11:13 |
| Macer | wnd: tagged indestructable containers. | 11:13 |
| wnd | processing uranium into nuclear fuel isn't exactly environment friendly either | 11:14 |
| Macer | true | 11:14 |
| Macer | so there is no such thing as "green power" | 11:14 |
| Macer | "green" is nothing but marketing | 11:14 |
| Luke-Jr_ | doesn't the radioactivity go away over time? | 11:15 |
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| Macer | lol | 11:15 |
| Macer | yeah. like a few thousand years it decays depending on the half life | 11:15 |
| Luke-Jr_ | so what's wrong with that? :þ | 11:15 |
| Macer | finding a place to store it for a few thousand years | 11:15 |
| Macer | where nobody can get a hold of it and where nobody will go near it. | 11:16 |
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| Macer | so it requires massive amounts of security | 11:16 |
| wnd | and where it will not spill back to environment (namely ground water) even in case of major (natural) disaster | 11:17 |
| Macer | cant they reprocess the waste? | 11:17 |
| Macer | i know newer gen plants can recycle most of their waste to keep the fusion going | 11:18 |
| Macer | well. fission while using the recycled materials | 11:18 |
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| Macer | uranium and plutonium are awesome elements | 11:19 |
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| Macer | they give so much for so little | 11:19 |
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| wnd | E=mc^2 doesn't care what 'm' is made of :-) | 11:22 |
| wnd | it could be kittens, puppies or even bunnies | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | radioactive kittens! | 11:22 |
| wnd | or sharks with lasers | 11:23 |
| pupnik | updates for those who pre-ordered ... http://www.openpandora.org/blog.php | 11:25 |
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| Jaffa | pupnik: still sounds like they're a long way from production quality mass production | 11:27 |
| pupnik | case tweaks + ce testing | 11:29 |
| Jaffa | + video out cable + wifi driver | 11:29 |
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| hendry | is there a package search? i'm looking for webkit packages for maemo diablo 2008 http://packages.qa.debian.org/w/webkit.html | 11:50 |
| hendry | ah, i found it http://repository.maemo.org diablo/free libwebkit-1.0-1 1.0-svn41128-1maemo3 | 11:50 |
| keesj | lcuk_coding: I need a stopwatch and an egg timer , that is what I really need in liqbase | 11:51 |
| keesj | egg/tea | 11:51 |
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| plastun | hi2all | 11:53 |
| plastun | what does it mean: GtkWarning: gdk_device_get_axis: assertion device!=NULL failed | 11:53 |
| plastun | this happens, when I try to emit signal to GtkTextView: gtktextview_widget.emit("button-press-event", event) | 11:54 |
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| Talus_Laptop | greetings | 12:17 |
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| pupnik | The following NEW packages will be installed: | 12:42 |
| pupnik | e2fslibs e2fsprogs libblkid1 libcomerr2 libss2 libuuid1 ncurses-bin | 12:42 |
| pupnik | safe to d-u? | 12:42 |
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| lcuk_coding | keesj, yeah should be simple | 12:57 |
| lcuk_coding | ciroclock can be repurposed | 12:58 |
| lcuk_coding | and buttons are easy | 12:58 |
| lcuk_coding | still gotta sort out desktop manager and some other stuff yet tho | 12:58 |
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| jeremiah2 | hmm, ignore the topic, it's from yesterday. | 13:15 |
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| *** VDVsx changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Warning: #maemo is perilous for your job." | 13:19 | |
| jeremiah | Thanks VDVsx! | 13:19 |
| VDVsx | jeremiah, np :) | 13:19 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie would be happy to see his warning is still there :) | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: ping | 13:20 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: hi | 13:21 |
| timeless_mbp | did you frame my script? :) | 13:21 |
| timeless_mbp | and how do i get the update to the other one? :) | 13:21 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | it's in some devel repo somewhere... get an novell account and search build.opensuse.org for hildon-theme-selector and find the 1.3 version | 13:22 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | as for your locale script, I'll make a start now | 13:22 |
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| RichiH | speaking of dist-upgrade.. does maemo have a bts which apt-listbugs can query? | 13:49 |
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| jeremiah | RichiH: No, just a bugzilla instance | 13:51 |
| RichiH | pity | 13:51 |
| jeremiah | Indeed. | 13:51 |
| RichiH | :p | 13:52 |
| jeremiah | But that is a big infrastructure to implement. | 13:52 |
| RST38h | moo, qwerty, jeremiah | 13:53 |
| qwerty12_N810 | hi RST38h | 13:53 |
| pupnik | i'm trying to persuade a friend to wait for next iphone or N900 - any legit word on release date? | 13:56 |
| RST38h | ehlo pupnik | 13:57 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes qwerty12_N810 | 13:57 | |
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| RST38h | pupnik: iPhone has just been released, N900 - probably november | 13:57 |
| RST38h | october/november | 13:57 |
| pupnik | ahh ty | 13:59 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless: fyi - that estimate on the task is for a few days. while I plan on getting it done before then, it does not say I have to finish it in lightspeed ;) | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: how much effort is required? | 14:00 |
| * timeless_mbp never really looked at how the other script was wrapped | 14:00 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | not tons as I've already got good foundations but I am a little preoccupied :) | 14:00 |
| * qwerty12_N810 wonders WTF "Give Maemo to WORLD!!!" is about | 14:02 | |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: o_o? | 14:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | latest thread on t.m.o... | 14:03 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: it's a haiku | 14:03 |
| Stskeeps | a broken one, obviously | 14:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | hehe | 14:03 |
| Stskeeps | you know, i should thank frank.wagner for attracting my interest in smartq devices :P | 14:04 |
| Stskeeps | what i do find interesting is that people are dropping android right now | 14:04 |
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| VDVsx | Stskeeps, dropping ? and they plan to use which os instead ? :P | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: .. windows ce, of all things | 14:10 |
| VDVsx | OMG | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/06/18/1848234/Nvidia-Lauds-Windows-CE-Over-Android-For-Smartbooks | 14:10 |
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| pupnik | if wince takes over, i think my lifespan will shorten by 5 years | 14:12 |
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| VDVsx | but why windows 'crap' CE, M$ pay them to use it :) | 14:14 |
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| jeremiah | moo RST38h | 14:17 |
| jeremiah | I would think _before_ November because there is a maemo conference around then | 14:17 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, worst case I can imagine would be at or before the summit (especially with a lot of the Nokia focus at the summit on Harmattan). That'd be *crazy* if fremantle weren't final | 14:20 |
| suihkulokki | Stskeeps: funny, someone called ericcw submits a slashdot article that gives three links to anti-android articles on.. computerworld! | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | suihkulokki: i should really stop reading slashdot | 14:20 |
| suihkulokki | Stskeeps: I recommend :) | 14:23 |
| andre__ | slashdot is a waste of time | 14:23 |
| lbt | andre__: wherease #maemo .... | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: at least you learn a lot of things in here | 14:24 |
| lbt | yeah, interesting slashdot articles.... :) | 14:24 |
| lbt | speaking of learning : http://www.sluggy.com/about/nvg.php | 14:25 |
| andre__ | lbt, hehe | 14:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: where are you? | 14:29 |
| * timeless_mbp is hungry | 14:29 | |
| lbt | suihkulokki isn't a snack! | 14:30 |
| lbt | we need him! | 14:30 |
| timeless_mbp | maybe suihkulokki knows where snacks can be found? | 14:30 |
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| lizardo | X-Fade: do you remember about that "Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive)." error that sometimes happen when using dput ? I just found out that when I get this error many times, if I go to https://garage.maemo.org/account/index2.php and reupload my SSH public key (even if it is the same!) it works again :) Looks like the public key gets corrupted somehow | 14:32 |
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| lizardo | X-Fade: or it might just be a coincidence... I'll be monitoring anyway | 14:36 |
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| RST38h | Anyone seen murrayc's post? | 14:51 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | on planet, right? | 14:53 |
| RST38h | yea | 14:53 |
| RST38h | So, things ARE in fact as messed up as I suspected =( | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | i agree with his points, at least | 14:53 |
| murrayc | My opinions don't become facts by me expressing them. | 14:54 |
| RST38h | murrayc: "API X behaves differently now" is not an opinion, it is a fact. | 14:54 |
| RST38h | Are original GTK+ widgets still available for application writers, BTW? | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | i would assume so since mer doesn't keel over completely | 14:55 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: They are; and they behave incorrectly for the Maemo HIG | 14:55 |
| murrayc | Yes, though most will just look wrong. There's a bug open saying that some documentation should say which ones even have proper theming supported. | 14:56 |
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| * RST38h wonders if the new brave API can be simply ignored whenever necessary (i.e. when porting XChat, Pidgin, etc) | 14:56 | |
| * Jaffa has always been of the opinion - since OS2005 days - that an OO system should have the impl switched out and a new one put in its place if the behaviour is to change, but the public API of said widget is unchanged. | 14:56 | |
| Jaffa | RST38h: It can, and things'll look "wrong" | 14:57 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: It is more complcated than the ideal OO approach you are describing | 14:57 |
| _berto_ | in principle old apps should just work with few or no changes | 14:57 |
| _berto_ | the old api is still there | 14:57 |
| Jaffa | murrayc: Do you touch on the fact that the buttons need correct *additional* properties to set to get the correct button height, sizing & themeing? | 14:57 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: But having a superset would probably achieve what you want | 14:57 |
| RST38h | murrayc: Now "...and this is wrong" is an opinion, which I wholly support. | 14:58 |
| ShadowJK | android's hype is fading and people are realizing it isn't really all that hot :/ | 14:58 |
| murrayc | Jaffa: Not in my post really. I think new API/concepts should go upstream to GTK+ where possible. It should at least be attempted. | 14:58 |
| Stskeeps | maemo gtk is probably the worst problem the maemo platform has | 14:58 |
| RST38h | murrayc: from what I have seen, the fremantle UI appears to be merging with the S60 UI in the way it looks | 14:59 |
| Stskeeps | in terms of getting apps for maemo going on other platforms | 14:59 |
| Jaffa | It's amazing that after so much effort goes into justifying it; Qt's getting it right by auto-adapting to the UI conventions of the platform | 14:59 |
| RST38h | murrayc: Won't be suprised if the task was stated as "make UI compliant with S60 guidelines" | 14:59 |
| RST38h | murrayc: In this case, I am not sure GTK+ guys will appreciate these changes pushed upstream | 14:59 |
| murrayc | Stskeeps: Do many people really want to port maemo apps to regular desktops? | 14:59 |
| murrayc | RST38h: The process of going upstream makes changes sane and acceptable to upstream. | 15:00 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: is it? is there a screenshot or two? | 15:00 |
| RST38h | murrayc: no way they can keep changes sane and match S60 UI in the same time | 15:00 |
| _berto_ | Jaffa: the problem is that if we change existing widgets too much we could break old apps | 15:00 |
| RST38h | S60 UI is really *different* | 15:00 |
| Jaffa | _berto_: But old apps are "broken" according to the UI standards anyway; even if they're using Hildon* widgets | 15:01 |
| murrayc | It's a hard line to walk. | 15:01 |
| _berto_ | Jaffa: they should look more or less like before | 15:01 |
| _berto_ | and that was the goal | 15:01 |
| _berto_ | we can't make old apps look like fremantle apps just by changing gtk widgets | 15:01 |
| _berto_ | there's now way to e.g. convert the menus | 15:01 |
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| murrayc | On the other hand, platforms such as Android, MacOS, or Moblin mostly ignore porting of UI code. They have completely new UI APIs so all API code is written from scratch anyway. It's hard to think that's better. | 15:02 |
| ShadowJK | How does this affect ease of porting normal gtk apps to maemo? | 15:02 |
| Jaffa | _berto_: From the tmo thread on the Fremantlification of gPodder, there've been numerous times when kanishou's said "set the height from auto to HILDON_THUMB_SIZE [or something]" to correctly size & theme a HildonButton. Why not do that by default to correct the dozen or so pixels it changes. | 15:02 |
| RST38h | murrayc: They can afford ignoring | 15:02 |
| RST38h | murrayc: Maemo can't: too much dependence on third-party open source apps | 15:03 |
| Jaffa | murrayc: At least you've got a definitive reference in one place; and only one API to learn. As you say, anyone with existing Gtk+ skills gets confused; and anyone without them can't just follow at Gtk+ tutorial to get up to speed | 15:03 |
| RST38h | murrayc: and developers too | 15:03 |
| _berto_ | Jaffa: if we do that indiscriminatly we would possible break old apps, I'd rather have an old app maintain its look (even if it's only usable with a stylus) than break apps that were already working | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Except you've got to heavily rewrite the UI code, and you can get something working - but not "correctly" - without knowing where the broken bits are | 15:04 |
| ShadowJK | murrayc, i think apple and android have enough hype that they can force developers to learn new things. I would say nokia does not have that clout, and their biggest concern right now is attracting developrs. Symbian is, well, "very" developer-hostile. A year or so nokia ppl seemed to have the attitude that "developers don't matter". I hope apple store and such have changed their mind, though I guess it takes longer for such a big corporation to change | 15:04 |
| ShadowJK | their attitude :-( | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | _berto_: Except the changes to the dialogue boxes reduce the horizontal space available; labels no longer fit - the goal is flawed anyway | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | (albeit laudable) | 15:05 |
| _berto_ | Jaffa: yes, in some cases we had no choice | 15:05 |
| _berto_ | but believe me, that was (and is) the goal | 15:05 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Not much chance that anyone will rewrite their UI specifically for Maemo :( | 15:05 |
| murrayc | ShadowJK: There are many symbian developers, though I wouldn't want to be one. | 15:05 |
| Jaffa | I think the most important point murrayc makes (and has been made in Bugzilla) is that if this was done openly; a better discussion - and result - would've occurred. | 15:06 |
| RST38h | berto: Judging from screenshots, there is a plenty of places with choice | 15:06 |
| ShadowJK | murrayc, I recently remember someone at nokia basically saying that they symbian developers that exist outside of nokia are paid by nokia to be there :-) | 15:06 |
| RST38h | berto: Choice made incorrectly that is =) | 15:06 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Where can I get my money? =) | 15:06 |
| murrayc | ShadowJK: I think there's far more than would be possible if it was only that. | 15:07 |
| murrayc | ShadowJK: But I'm only guessing. | 15:07 |
| _berto_ | RST38h: don't know, I could try to discuss each particular case with you | 15:07 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Discussing things openly is not sufficient. Nokia must be prepared to listen and make changes and it is not, so discussing it openly is kinda pointless | 15:07 |
| RST38h | berto: Actually, I would love that | 15:07 |
| ShadowJK | murrayc, well it's pretty marginal compared to what you could tap into with the GTK and QT crowds :-) | 15:07 |
| murrayc | RST38h: It depends on the individuals. Diablo's upstreaming of GTK+ changes was very healthy. | 15:08 |
| RST38h | berto: Let me bring up the screenshots and ask a few questions, ok? | 15:08 |
| _berto_ | RST38h: not now, I'm about to go for lunch :) | 15:08 |
| RST38h | murrayc: Yea, but Diablo's GTK+ is still GTK+ | 15:08 |
| RST38h | berto: Acknowledged. | 15:08 |
| _berto_ | and fremantle's gtk is gtk too | 15:08 |
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| murrayc | I like GTK+. | 15:08 |
| murrayc | I'd like to see it ported properly to a Maemo-like device. | 15:09 |
| lbt | murrayc: Mer? | 15:09 |
| murrayc | I know nothing of mer yet. | 15:09 |
| plastun | hm, a created pop-up GtkDialog with GtkEntry. When it shows, I can't put cursor in GtkEntry. What's wrong? | 15:09 |
| lbt | we'd love to help manage the port | 15:09 |
| lbt | Mer is "open-maemo" | 15:09 |
| lbt | community version of it | 15:10 |
| lbt | backport of fremantle to N8x0/N770 will happen (is happening) there | 15:10 |
| murrayc | lbt: You are working on Qt, right, or have I confused you with someone? | 15:11 |
| lbt | I do work on Qt :) | 15:11 |
| lbt | but I'm happy to help get gtk+ working on Mer | 15:11 |
| lbt | there I'm a packager/manger | 15:11 |
| lbt | I was trying to package up gtk+ on gitorious | 15:12 |
| murrayc | lbt: I think I've come across your name in djcb/ac circles too. | 15:12 |
| lbt | I did glib2.0 | 15:12 |
| lbt | djcb ? | 15:12 |
| murrayc | Then I am confused. | 15:13 |
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| _berto_ | Jaffa: the thing with open development from the very beginning is that it would reveal UI specs of the new device very soon, I understand that nokia doesn't want to do that | 15:13 |
| lbt | I've been around linux a while... some lkml, did some git docs, linux-raid ... | 15:13 |
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| lbt | anyhow, we want to support gtk+ in Mer but we have skill resource issues which hamper us a touch | 15:15 |
| lbt | murrayc: FWIW Mer will be the upstream for UbuntuMID too | 15:16 |
| murrayc | lbt: Excellent. | 15:16 |
| lbt | so if you want to help us get gtk+/hildon supported there.... | 15:16 |
| lbt | Mer is trying to be a foundation for touchscreen devices | 15:17 |
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| lbt | so focus on libraries and apps with touch extensions/adaptations | 15:17 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt, that statemnt is confusing - we have maemo gtk, but integrating this into gtk in a manner that maemo gtk can run alongside | 15:17 |
| murrayc | lbt: That's not likely, I'm afraid. I spend only half the week working, and half taking care of my son. Life is already rather full. | 15:18 |
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| Stskeeps | 'support' is a wide word | 15:18 |
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| lbt | it is... | 15:18 |
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| Stskeeps | sorry, on crap gprs | 15:19 |
| lbt | np murrayc ... are you working on maemo-gtk though? | 15:19 |
| murrayc | No. | 15:19 |
| lbt | OK :) | 15:19 |
| lbt | hmm.... just reading the backlog and cf'ing the way Qt/Maemo is trying to push back upstream (but not quite doing it yet AFAICT) | 15:21 |
| _berto_ | lbt: maemo-gtk is being maintained by imendio/lanedo | 15:22 |
| lbt | _berto_: ta | 15:23 |
| _berto_ | lunch, bye! | 15:24 |
| lbt | l8r | 15:24 |
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| plastun | guys! Help me | 15:25 |
| * lbt shoots the monster chasing plastun | 15:26 | |
| * lbt blows the gun barrel | 15:26 | |
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| plastun | when i run GtkDialog with GtkEntry, GtkEntry is not editable | 15:27 |
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| plastun | when I set type of GtkDialog as ToplevelWindow it's work, but it place all screen. When I set type of GtkDialog as popup - gtkEntry is not editable | 15:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | lbt: what's cf'ing? | 15:35 |
| lbt | cf | 15:35 |
| lbt | Gtk+ is for the C language; cf Qt | 15:36 |
| * timeless_mbp still doesn't get it | 15:36 | |
| lbt | "compared with" | 15:36 |
| lbt | cf'ing : a new "irc brain-to-finger" word | 15:37 |
| RST38h | back | 15:38 |
| lbt | murrayc: I wonder if the main issue that gtk+/hildon and Qt/hildon suffer from is that they were implemented more than designed? | 15:38 |
| RST38h | lbt: whole gtk+ has been implemented rather than designed :) | 15:38 |
| murrayc | lbt: Yes, there seems to be more emphasis on getting it done than doing it right. | 15:39 |
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| lbt | I *hope* the core Qt guys can take the Hildon stuff and re-implement the right way. | 15:40 |
| timeless_mbp | murrayc: you mean someone wanted to ship a product instead of draw pretty architecture diagrams? | 15:40 |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: disposable software ? | 15:41 |
| lbt | sadly although hardware designs can be reimplemented every time, in an Open world, the foundation design sticks around *forever* | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: you've clearly never suffered from Symbian | 15:42 |
| timeless_mbp | they're closed and they get to suffer from bad foundation design too :) | 15:42 |
| lbt | heh ... actually I'd say Symbian is open in the sense I mean | 15:43 |
| lbt | they made a public API | 15:43 |
| timeless_mbp | oh we made a public api | 15:43 |
| timeless_mbp | and like symbian, no one in their right mind would want to use it :) | 15:43 |
| lbt | yeah - and the pain is in living with it... | 15:43 |
| lbt | sadly the cost of living with it seems too hard to quantify and hence justify improved early design | 15:44 |
| lbt | well known issue I know | 15:44 |
| RST38h | Symbian's foundation is very very good | 15:44 |
| RST38h | So good and solid and big | 15:45 |
| * RST38h cackles evilly | 15:45 | |
| * lbt has no clue about Symbian | 15:45 | |
| lbt | I wonder if the Nokian devs can get some support from the TrollTech managers? Or maybe the focus on architecture in Harmattan is a result of this? (timeless) | 15:47 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders too | 15:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | I think the focus on architecture if there is one is that we're growing up, so we want to have more signs that say "architecture" | 15:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | i know there has been talk about people "architecting" "things" | 15:48 |
| timeless_mbp | but that doesn't mean that i'd approve of any of them :( | 15:48 |
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| murrayc | Symbian was presumably heavily optimized for hardware (and "OS") that had massively different capabilities.. | 15:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | nor does it mean the things that interest you will get an architecture you'll like :/ | 15:49 |
| murrayc | If Symbian can do true multiprocessing/multithreading now, I doubt that it could at the start. | 15:49 |
| timeless_mbp | EPOC | 15:49 |
| RST38h | murrayc: Symbian APIs actually look ok | 15:50 |
| RST38h | murrayc: They do not seem to suffer from heavy optimization | 15:50 |
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| RST38h | murrayc: What they DO seem to suffer from is their authors' megalomania | 15:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | yeah, i think symbian suffered more from adding the wrong functions at the wrong times | 15:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | not so much from premature optimization | 15:51 |
| RST38h | murrayc: For example, all three UI frameworks are a mess | 15:51 |
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| murrayc | RST38h: Current symbian devices suggest that Symbian is still not a real OS. | 15:51 |
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| RST38h | murrayc: Dead wrong. | 15:52 |
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| RST38h | murrayc: It is a real OS. | 15:52 |
| RST38h | murrayc: It has got problems, but it is pretty nice as an OS | 15:52 |
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| RST38h | murrayc: Asynchronous, multithreaded, real time OS | 15:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | real time? | 15:53 |
| RST38h | Lots of problems come from the "asynchronous" part, because the designers (in a fit of clinical megalomania) made lots of crucial processes asynchronous | 15:53 |
| RST38h | As result, Symbian spends lots of time deadlocked, and when it is not, there are funny race conditions | 15:54 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 15:54 |
| RST38h | There are three UI frameworks. | 15:54 |
| timeless_mbp | only 3? | 15:54 |
| timeless_mbp | S60, UIQ, Brew,? | 15:55 |
| RST38h | Symbian's own Eikon is the most stable one, but it has been cannibalized by Nokia (Avkon) and Sony (Eikon) | 15:55 |
| RST38h | Brew has no relation to Symbian | 15:55 |
| RST38h | Sony - Uikon, sorry | 15:55 |
| RST38h | Between Avkon and Uikon, Uikon is the most developed one, you can actually use it | 15:55 |
| RST38h | Nokia's Avkon (aka S60) is just a bunch of APIs thrown on top of Eikon, none of them work very well | 15:56 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, BREW was Qualcomm's | 15:56 |
| RST38h | In other words, what Nokia is doing to GTK+ in Maemo5 is turning it into Avkon | 15:56 |
| * timeless_mbp never really paid attn to mobile phones :) | 15:56 | |
| RST38h | Symbian uses resource compilation where some messy C-struct-like language is used to compile actual structs used by the UI | 15:58 |
| RST38h | The UI (all three frameworks) actually crash (and sometimes take the OS with them) if you make as much as a one-character mistake in the resource definition | 15:58 |
| RST38h | Resource editing is mostly done by following examples found online | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, so epoc16 was single user preemptive multitasking :) | 15:59 |
| RST38h | So, this is about it | 15:59 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/19/huaweis-e583x-wireless-modem-turns-3g-to-wifi-beautiful-lights/ <- ooh. | 15:59 |
| wazd | hello maemo | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | hello wazd | 16:00 |
| RST38h | heya wazd | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: hideous contracts attached | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | sounds yum | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | and only one client | 16:00 |
| RST38h | wazd: _berto_ over here agreed to listen to our complaints about Maemo5 UI | 16:00 |
| RST38h | wazd: Care to explain to him? (at least, when he gets back from lunch) | 16:01 |
| timeless_mbp | lunch at 4pm? | 16:01 |
| timeless_mbp | sounds like a good idea | 16:01 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders where he is | 16:01 | |
| wazd | http://i035.radikal.ru/0906/aa/65ee40c983d6.jpg <- what do you think bout that icon style? (probable style for Mer) | 16:02 |
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| RST38h | wazd: What is the white thing? | 16:03 |
| wazd | RST38h: Well, I'll tell him what he's doing wrong and he'll get the money for it?) Sounds like a bad deal for me :D | 16:03 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: so, technically s80 was its own ui built on symbian, right? :) | 16:03 |
| RST38h | wazd: Frankly, I wouldn't care who gets money for this as long as this abomination does not reach release. | 16:04 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's just different backgrounds examle | 16:04 |
| RST38h | S80 probably was just another UI framework | 16:04 |
| RST38h | Some other Screwkon or something | 16:04 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: so you're offering a shadow | 16:04 |
| RST38h | wazd: Ah ok | 16:04 |
| timeless_mbp | which on average won't be seen | 16:05 |
| timeless_mbp | that seems.... odd | 16:05 |
| RST38h | wazd: I would put a smaller version of the Image Viewer icon on the image folder | 16:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | wazd: are those categories, folders, programs, or something else? | 16:05 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Given how small these icons are going to be, would rather go for stylization than photographic quality | 16:05 |
| * timeless_mbp would use bigger main icons w/ much smaller folder icons | 16:05 | |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: well, Mer runs on huge variety of hardware, including desktops, not only low color n8*0 screens, so a shadow can add a bit eye-candy for tem :) | 16:06 |
| Stskeeps | desktops aren't primary focus though :P | 16:06 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: i'm not saying shadows are bad | 16:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm just noting.... | 16:06 |
| timeless_mbp | what is the plus folder? | 16:06 |
| timeless_mbp | is it misc? | 16:06 |
| timeless_mbp | if so, i'd rather three shapes instead of a plus | 16:07 |
| timeless_mbp | a pyramid, a cube, and a sphere | 16:07 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: it's general_add_folder.png :) | 16:07 |
| lcuk | you were better having the list of things that are currently kept in "my selection" - the original current top level menu of things you use most | 16:07 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, they are not that small to start simplifying things :) | 16:08 |
| * timeless_mbp considers poking the vpn to see what this stuff is | 16:08 | |
| wazd | lcuk: folders are there just to show them in the real environment, nothing serious :) | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | we can't use the fremantle sdk icons hence we're making our own / grabbing our own :P | 16:09 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: for misc folders I wanted to make different folder colors built in | 16:09 |
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| wazd | anyway, I can remove shadow if you like to :) | 16:10 |
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| wazd | but to my mind shadow ads some dimension to the picture | 16:11 |
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| sarower | I am going to install maemomm inside scratchbox...(Maemo sdk 5, Fremntle). For this i have added the following two repositories.."deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free | 16:14 |
| sarower | deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free". But when i am running "apt-get update" | 16:14 |
| sarower | it is giveing this error "gzip: stdin: invalid compressed data--format violated | 16:14 |
| sarower | Err http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages | 16:14 |
| sarower | Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)" | 16:14 |
| sarower | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-i386/Packages.gz Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1) | 16:14 |
| sarower | Reading package lists... Done | 16:14 |
| sarower | E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead. | 16:14 |
| sarower | any body any help? | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | sarower: i think there's problems with repo atm | 16:15 |
| sarower | can you please explain this... | 16:15 |
| sarower | Stskeeps! | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | sarower: as in it's not a problem you have, it's a problem everyone has | 16:16 |
| sarower | but i have used this 2/3 days ago | 16:17 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but it's a problem right now :) | 16:17 |
| Stskeeps | temporary one | 16:17 |
| sarower | oh problem of the repository? | 16:17 |
| sarower | I have nothing to do? | 16:17 |
| X-Fade | sarower: I'll check. It seem that the packages file is corrupted. | 16:17 |
| Robot101 | does bergie IRC? | 16:18 |
| sarower | Stskeeps: let see what happen next week!! | 16:18 |
| sarower | whether the repo become ok or not | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | Robot101: yeah, he is on occasionally | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | ~seen bergie | 16:19 |
| infobot | bergie <n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 8h 36m 52s ago, saying: 'prahal: that "forum" is mailing list archives imported into forum software'. | 16:19 |
| X-Fade | Robot101: Yes, but not on Juhannus ;) | 16:20 |
| sarower | Stskeeps: what do you say amout this? | 16:20 |
| X-Fade | sarower: zcat: Packages.gz: invalid compressed data--format violated | 16:20 |
| X-Fade | sarower: I'll try to regenerate them. | 16:20 |
| sarower | X-Fade: telling about my problem? | 16:21 |
| X-Fade | sarower: yes | 16:21 |
| sarower | but my problem is: you please see above..."gzip: stdin: invalid compressed data--format violated | 16:22 |
| sarower | <sarower> Err http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages | 16:22 |
| sarower | <sarower> Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)" | 16:22 |
| sarower | do you want to generate this? | 16:22 |
| sarower | X-Fade? | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | sarower: Yes, I manage that repository. | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | So I can regenerate it ;) | 16:23 |
| sarower | right now? | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | Yes. | 16:23 |
| sarower | X-Fade? | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | Of course ;) | 16:23 |
| sarower | so what is the conclusion? | 16:23 |
| sarower | we can not install it now! | 16:24 |
| sarower | X-Fade? | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | sarower: That you have to wait for 10 mins until the regeneration finishes. | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | sarower: Take a cup of coffee and relax. | 16:24 |
| sarower | lol! | 16:24 |
| sarower | ok man | 16:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | so... our cross reference these days doesn't include images | 16:28 |
| timeless_mbp | ... hence i can't see any internal art :( | 16:28 |
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| sarower | X-Fade! anything update! | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: i'm not entirely sure caffeine is such a good suggestion | 16:38 |
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| sarower | X-Fade? | 16:42 |
| GAN800 | Getting a GPRS connection in the morning has now become a Windows-style reboot-fest troubleshooting session. | 16:42 |
| RST38h | Bad ground station. | 16:46 |
| * RST38h had to reboot his phone at a specific spot of the bus router for three months in a row, then the problem went away | 16:46 | |
| RST38h | s/router/route | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | I have gprs/3g with two different operators. With one of them, it drops frequently, and sometimes needs the reboot cycle to connect. With the other, it never drops and stays connected weeks. | 16:48 |
| ShadowJK | I thought it was the phone, but I swapped sim cards around and the phone that had been unstable requiring reboots became rock solid, and the one that had been rock solid became unstable :) | 16:49 |
| ShadowJK | unstable/stable wrt gprs | 16:49 |
| X-Fade | sarower: Try now? | 16:50 |
| sarower | X-Fade: ok | 16:50 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: i presume that you can't use up/down if you aren't using an english key layout :) | 16:52 |
| timeless_mbp | please don't oversell what fremantle offers :) | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | it's only scandinavia anyway | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | (.. only) | 16:52 |
| ShadowJK | scandinavia comes without arrow keys? :-) | 16:52 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, i think you can according to specs that i have seen | 16:52 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: take a look at xkb-data | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: my memory is that some arrow keys are not included | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't remember which :) | 16:53 |
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| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: I'm sure there are ctrl modifiers for that ;) | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: don't be so sure | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | we were planning on not including a certain modifier in another app | 16:53 |
| andre__ | well, that's all i can say here: i've seen specs | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: i read them when they gave me a proto | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | they were clear it wasn't included... but i didn't pay close attn. it was just amusing | 16:54 |
| * Stskeeps wanders off to try and get a psu working | 16:54 | |
| timeless_mbp | i went through that app earlier this week and encountered it while being guided through that app | 16:54 |
| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, surely you're not trying to fix a dead psu.. | 16:54 |
| timeless_mbp | i asked "wouldn't a modifier make sense for the other behavior" | 16:54 |
| timeless_mbp | the guy guiding me said "oh yeah" | 16:54 |
| timeless_mbp | the rest of the week people spent arguing over which is the default and which is modiifed | 16:54 |
| timeless_mbp | even money says they don't ship support for the modifier | 16:55 |
| timeless_mbp | as for browser... we have plans to support i think 3 modified things | 16:55 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't remember which they are, and i believe they won't be documented in the help | 16:55 |
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| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: There will be help? | 16:55 |
| timeless_mbp | dunno | 16:56 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, good question | 16:56 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: I thought help was deprecated? | 16:56 |
| timeless_mbp | s/help/documentation or user guide/ | 16:56 |
| ShadowJK | It would be great if some days keyboard layouts could be standardized across devices :) It's kinda annoying when N810 and E75 have completely different layouts :/ | 16:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: i'd settle for fn-* being consistent across languages on the n800 | 16:57 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 16:57 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 16:57 |
| timeless_mbp | the did a rotate left one key thing for a block of 5 keys including * () / ? iirc | 16:57 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm sure that on a substandard keyboard it was incredibly important not to be consistent across key layouts | 16:58 |
| ShadowJK | Atleast on N800 OSK there's a language swithc button so I can switch to Eng and get the ()/* things :) | 16:58 |
| timeless_mbp | oh i meant n810, sorry | 16:58 |
| timeless_mbp | perhaps to ensure that people would have to buy the right version of the n810 ? :) | 16:58 |
| X-Fade | And hiding - under fn bothered me too ;) | 16:58 |
| ShadowJK | hey, are the CHR+key combos documented anywhere? | 16:58 |
| timeless_mbp | unlikely :) | 16:59 |
| ShadowJK | hm, I think - isn't under Fn for me on Scandinavian N810 | 16:59 |
| _berto_ | timeless_mbp: it was 14:30 when I went out for lunch :) | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | maybe in andre__ 's doc? | 16:59 |
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| X-Fade | ShadowJK: no, but it was on the developer device. | 16:59 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 16:59 |
| ShadowJK | - is under Fn on my E75 too | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | _berto_: well it's 5:00 and i'm off to lunch | 17:00 |
| _berto_ | RST38h, wazd: if you have questions about the hildon I'm glad to help you, but I'd appreciate if you used e-mail as i'm going to be a bit busy during the afternoon :) | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | that's close to 4:30, right? :) | 17:01 |
| _berto_ | my timezone is CEST | 17:01 |
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| timeless_mbp_ | i'm in HEL and conveniently ignoring your 1 | 17:02 |
| _berto_ | but in HEL people have lunch very early | 17:02 |
| * ShadowJK just had lunch | 17:02 | |
| ShadowJK | or dinner rather, I guess | 17:02 |
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| _berto_ | timeless_mbp_: i'm in galicia, atlantic coast of spain | 17:03 |
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| wazd | _berto_: nope, no questions :) | 17:33 |
| _berto_ | wazd: ah, I thought you had :? | 17:34 |
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| Stskeeps | gah, dead motherboard | 17:35 |
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| GAN800 | Somebody mind filling in 'fail' for the status on my tasks last month? ;) | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | GAN800, FAIL | 17:40 |
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| Jaffa | GAN800: I have an action of asking if you need/can get help resolving your "VCS issues" | 17:40 |
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| wazd | GAN800: you're failing even in filling "fail" staus? :D | 17:45 |
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| * xnt14[server] wakes up | 17:55 | |
| xnt14[server] | well I'm (xnt14) waking up :P | 17:56 |
| xnt14[server] | I don't have an exam today | 17:56 |
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| b-man16 | i'm back :) | 17:58 |
| xnt14[server] | :) | 17:58 |
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| xnt14[server] | im booting up my xps | 17:58 |
| b-man16 | k | 17:59 |
| xnt14[server] | well, my server is running 24/7 and I can use it as a bot or as a regular irc client | 17:59 |
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| xnt14[server] | thats why you weren't able to use the bot part of it the other day, I had a FIFO open, then I just wrote a script to sned/receive | 18:00 |
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| b-man16 | ah, ok | 18:01 |
| xnt14[server] | :) | 18:01 |
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| bobpaul | what tthe heck. maemo port of xchat doeesn't allow hiding join/part? I swear it used to... | 18:36 |
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| xnt14 | bobpaul, /join and /close | 18:37 |
| Macer | it is raining hard | 18:37 |
| b-man16 | where are you? | 18:38 |
| xnt14 | Macer, it was raining like hell yesterday | 18:38 |
| xnt14 | :P | 18:38 |
| * b-man16 hot slamed by sever t-storms this morning | 18:38 | |
| b-man16 | *got | 18:38 |
| xnt14 | *severe | 18:39 |
| xnt14 | :P | 18:39 |
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| xnt14 | it sounds like server :P | 18:39 |
| b-man16 | and it's suppose to be 87 - with more storms and the possibility of hail | 18:39 |
| xnt14 | xD | 18:39 |
| b-man16 | xD | 18:39 |
| Macer | chicago | 18:40 |
| Macer | it's shitty | 18:40 |
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| b-man16 | ah | 18:40 |
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| Macer | cant take my son outside | 18:40 |
| b-man16 | i'm getting your storm in a fuew hours xD | 18:40 |
| Macer | weeeee | 18:41 |
| Macer | lots of thunder | 18:41 |
| xnt14 | lol | 18:41 |
| * b-man16 loves sever weather - especially tornados xD | 18:41 | |
| xnt14 | xD | 18:41 |
| Macer | no tornadoes here | 18:41 |
| Macer | or earthquakes | 18:42 |
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| b-man16 | i ran outside of my house once to take a picture of one | 18:42 |
| b-man16 | xD | 18:42 |
| Macer | or hurricanes | 18:42 |
| inz | or fog | 18:42 |
| inz | oh, nevermind... | 18:42 |
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| b-man16 | lol | 18:42 |
| * xnt14 reads slashdot because he is bored | 18:42 | |
| xnt14 | lol | 18:43 |
| Macer | heh. we get some cold winters | 18:43 |
| xnt14 | <FAIL>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/get-the-facts/browser-comparison.aspx</FAIL> | 18:43 |
| b-man16 | indeed | 18:43 |
| b-man16 | lol | 18:43 |
| inz | xnt14, do you read slashdot or slashdot comments? | 18:43 |
| xnt14 | inz, both I guess | 18:43 |
| inz | xnt14, ok, if you only read the news, that wouldn't bee too bad | 18:44 |
| Macer | i cant use that link | 18:44 |
| xnt14 | "Developer Tools: Of course Internet Explorer 8 wins this one. There's no need to install tools separately, and it offers better features like JavaScript profiling." ~IE8 BS Marketing | 18:44 |
| xnt14 | ok ill repost it | 18:44 |
| xnt14 | http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/get-the-facts/browser-comparison.aspx | 18:44 |
| Macer | too long for me to bother trying it on my phone :) | 18:44 |
| xnt14 | :P | 18:44 |
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| Macer | wish connectbot had link detection | 18:45 |
| xnt14 | http://tinyurl.com/ie8bs | 18:45 |
| xnt14 | :) | 18:45 |
| Macer | what is the point to ms making ie? | 18:45 |
| b-man16 | xD | 18:45 |
| b-man16 | good question | 18:45 |
| Macer | i mean. what do they gain? | 18:45 |
| xnt14 | exactly | 18:46 |
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| Macer | im being serious ;) | 18:46 |
| Macer | i love the ssl cert green bar racket | 18:46 |
| xnt14 | just leave out the browser or add a app to dl ff off of the internet | 18:46 |
| Macer | i guess that? | 18:46 |
| xnt14 | what? | 18:46 |
| Macer | the green bar ssl cert | 18:47 |
| Macer | you know. the extremely overpriced ssl certs that give a green bar in ie? | 18:48 |
| bobpaul | xnt14: even rebooted. I can press and hold (right click) in the channel window and user list but not the chan/server list | 18:48 |
| xnt14 | Macer, yup that is stupid | 18:49 |
| xnt14 | bobpaul, :/ | 18:49 |
| xnt14 | reinstall xchat? | 18:50 |
| bobpaul | i guess... or rm the .xchat folder | 18:50 |
| lbt | bobpaul: thanks for the bug reports ;) | 18:51 |
| bobpaul | but it should work? it's just me? | 18:51 |
| bobpaul | for shopper? np | 18:51 |
| xnt14 | bobpaul, my xchat works fine :/ | 18:51 |
| bobpaul | ok. then mine will, too... eventually ;) | 18:52 |
| xnt14 | ;) | 18:53 |
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| GAN800 | wazd, apparently. | 19:00 |
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| GAN800 | Jaffa, Mercurial hates me, but I think timeless fixed it I just need to resolve this insanity with Apple. . . . | 19:01 |
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| VDVsx | http://maemo.org/community/council/maemo_summit_2009-call_for_content_now_open/ | 19:14 |
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| dneary | hi | 19:30 |
| dneary | GeneralAntilles: Ping? | 19:30 |
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| b-man16 | http://www.rofl.name/asciiart/ | 19:39 |
| b-man16 | LOL!!!! | 19:39 |
| xnt14[server] | lol | 19:39 |
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| keesj | not all pure ascrii art .... | 19:44 |
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| Jaffa | GAN800: Send me a MacBook Air and I'll sort it for you ;-) | 19:52 |
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| jeward | Hi, I just turned on a Nokia n810 that hasn't been used in a couple of months and it has no software updates available... is that reasonable? | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 20:06 |
| jeward | Is OS2008 being replaced or... just really stable? | 20:06 |
| inz | neither | 20:07 |
| skibur | hum..... which is the latest Diablo? | 20:07 |
| skibur | 4.1? | 20:07 |
| RST38h | it is being abandoned | 20:07 |
| skibur | ? Diablo? | 20:07 |
| RST38h | yes | 20:08 |
| skibur | :S | 20:08 |
| inz | 4.1.2 | 20:08 |
| skibur | so which firmware is up to par? | 20:08 |
| skibur | none? | 20:08 |
| skibur | Mer maybe? | 20:08 |
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| jeward | My debian_release says: testing/unstable | 20:10 |
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| jeward | How do I tell if I have the latest/best OS? | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | check "about product" in control panel | 20:11 |
| jeward | 4.2008.36-5 | 20:11 |
| jeward | Is that the good stuff? | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | ah, not most recent then | 20:12 |
| andre__ | *meep*. 5.2008.43-7 is the latest | 20:12 |
| jeward | How do I get there? | 20:12 |
| andre__ | install the updates that are offered to you | 20:12 |
| andre__ | or reflash: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 20:12 |
| jeward | It says no updates available. | 20:13 |
| pupnik | it should | 20:13 |
| andre__ | sure the correct repositories (catalogues) are enabled? | 20:13 |
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| jeward | Not sure of much at this point. | 20:13 |
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| lcuk | keep them simple and standalone, then you can group them and combine them into bigger peieces naturally | 20:14 |
| lcuk | damn wrong chan | 20:14 |
| jeward | How do I check the repositories? | 20:14 |
| jeward | I forget. | 20:14 |
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| jeward | Okay, found it. | 20:15 |
| jeward | I have: Nokia catalog | 20:15 |
| jeward | 3rd party software | 20:15 |
| jeward | System Software updates | 20:15 |
| jeward | certified | 20:16 |
| jeward | non-certified | 20:16 |
| jeward | and Extras. | 20:16 |
| jeward | Seem complete? | 20:16 |
| GAN800 | dneary, pong? | 20:16 |
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| jeward | All seem to point at catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com | 20:17 |
| dneary | GAN800: Sorry too late to talk | 20:17 |
| dneary | I just wanted to know exactly what was expected from "Brainstorm documentation" | 20:18 |
| GAN800 | Dunno | 20:18 |
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| dneary | I suspect "copy Ubuntu's" would be enough :) | 20:18 |
| GAN800 | Haven't even had time to load it yet. | 20:18 |
| dneary | Anyway, buy | 20:18 |
| GAN800 | email. . . . | 20:18 |
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| jeward | Anybody have any idea how to get my system updated? I don't really want to reflash if I don't have to. | 20:19 |
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| pupnik | i dunno | 20:20 |
| pupnik | i reflashed | 20:20 |
| jeward | If I backup and restore, will I lose the e-books I've downloaded? | 20:21 |
| xnt14 | jeward, backup just backs up everything in your MyDocs Directory | 20:21 |
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| pupnik | i manually backed up things i wanted to keep | 20:22 |
| jeward | K. | 20:22 |
| jeward | I'll move them there if they aren't already. | 20:22 |
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| udovdh | btw | 20:25 |
| udovdh | what is the latest/best what I should flash in my n810? | 20:25 |
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| xnt14 | udovdh, diablo | 20:38 |
| xnt14 | diablo-latest | 20:38 |
| xnt14 | nokia n810 or n800? | 20:39 |
| udovdh | n810 | 20:39 |
| udovdh | is there a working respin yet? | 20:40 |
| xnt14 | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php | 20:40 |
| udovdh | thanks | 20:40 |
| xnt14 | :) np | 20:40 |
| udovdh | I have diablo in there already | 20:40 |
| xnt14 | just type in your wifi mac | 20:40 |
| lopz | hola | 20:40 |
| xnt14 | :) | 20:40 |
| xnt14 | lopz, hi | 20:40 |
| lopz | heya xnt14 ;) | 20:40 |
| xnt14 | :) | 20:41 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 21:33 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: welcome, xserver 1.6 running, problem is the n810 keyboard | 21:46 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, hello. you need to catch luke-jr, he has n810 too. but i could try. what kind of a problem? | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | 10 bucks on Fn | 21:48 |
| slonopotamus | yep | 21:48 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: FN key isn't working, if i have read it correct, x11 only supports 256 keys. | 21:48 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 21:48 |
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| * Stskeeps wins 10 bucks | 21:49 | |
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| johnsq | Stskeeps: yes, kernel fix, user space filter, or x11 fix? | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | x11 fix, dirty | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | evdev | 21:50 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, some fresh info, btw: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3021 | 21:51 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, in short, its broken | 21:51 |
| slonopotamus | x is broken because expects only 255. n810 is broken because it doesn't have a reason to use bigger codes | 21:52 |
| RST38h | Are you absolutely sure that X11 is broken??? | 21:54 |
| RST38h | Let me check something. | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: xinput only supports keycodes lower than 256 | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | "only" | 21:55 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 21:55 |
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| Stskeeps | for reasons unknown, n810 keyboard gives out keycode 464 | 21:55 |
| RST38h | slono XKeyEvent uses int for the key code | 21:56 |
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| RST38h | No problem with keycodes >255 | 21:56 |
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| RST38h | In fact, PC keyboard may also generate these (aka extended keycodes) | 21:56 |
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| johnsq | RST38h: they are below 256 over 256 are buttons... | 21:57 |
| RST38h | johnsq: ? | 21:57 |
| johnsq | linux input system | 21:57 |
| * RST38h has no idea what linux input system is | 21:58 | |
| RST38h | Ok, X11 XK_* codes are 16bit | 21:58 |
| johnsq | RST38h: input events and the define scancodes go only to 256. | 21:58 |
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| Stskeeps | what's the most popular media center thingie for linux these days? | 21:58 |
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| RST38h | johnsq: Then it is a problem with Linux not with X11 | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | ideally sane with bluemaemo | 21:59 |
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| Stskeeps | evening penguinbait | 22:01 |
| penguinbait | hola | 22:01 |
| johnsq | is there a ready kernel patch for FN? | 22:01 |
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| Stskeeps | we solve it in evdev | 22:03 |
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| johnsq | RST38h: sorry I was wrong, linux input has keys >0x100 defined. KEY_FN is defined as 0x1d0 = 464 in the kernel | 22:04 |
| RST38h | johnsq: So I am not exactly sure just where the problem may be | 22:04 |
| johnsq | Stskeeps: patched evdev? | 22:05 |
| slonopotamus | rst38h, http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11227 | 22:05 |
| RST38h | XKeyEvents use 32bit codes, XK_ codes are 16bit, and the kernel also has long key codes | 22:05 |
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| VDVsx | Stskeeps, elisa or boxee | 22:05 |
| RST38h | Ah, X.org is to blame.... | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: sounds like an idea | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | especially since it's scriptable | 22:08 |
| VDVsx | ahh, elisa have a new name now: http://www.moovida.com/ | 22:09 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: i will try http://www.thenautilus.net/cgit/xf86-input-evdev/?h=code-remap | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | why on earth not steal mer's patch? | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:13 |
| * xnt14[work]_ is back, cablevision sucks | 22:13 | |
| xnt14[work]_ | ~seen b-man16 | 22:13 |
| infobot | b-man16 <n=b-man@pool-71-124-32-204.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2h 34m 21s ago, saying: 'LOL!!!!'. | 22:14 |
| xnt14[work]_ | xD | 22:14 |
| johnsq | Stskeeps: I have asked! where is it? | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | johnsq: well the easy answer is on a server that's currently in pieces next to me | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | not so easy answer: grab it from Maemo:Mer:Devel:HW:N8x0:Devel from OBS | 22:15 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: I use MythTV | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | i need 1) scriptable 2) girlfriend friendly 3) can stand being suspended/resumed | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | and pretty on a bad tv screen | 22:17 |
| Stskeeps | also, the machine should be able to run ubuntu alongside | 22:17 |
| johnsq | xmbc | 22:17 |
| johnsq | or xbmc | 22:17 |
| Stskeeps | boxee looks interesting too | 22:19 |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 22:19 | |
| johnsq | based on xbmc, if i know it correct | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | also i would use bluemaemo from tablets to use it | 22:19 |
| slonopotamus | stskeeps, which package you patched? | 22:21 |
| RST38h | Sorry to ask a stupid question but is this Moovida any good? | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: xserver-xorg-input-evdev | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | and then used xkbdata from nokia | 22:21 |
| slonopotamus | stskeeps, k | 22:21 |
| RST38h | Is it worth downloading, or should I expect that it will skip and stall like Canola does on the tablet? | 22:21 |
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| * GAN800 sighs at non-native pronoun use. | 22:22 | |
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| Stskeeps | GAN800: Give Maemo to WORLD!!! | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 22:23 |
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| Stskeeps | i think we've found a new slogan for Mer. :P | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29684) | 22:23 |
| crashanddie | French slogan: "Mer.de" | 22:24 |
| crashanddie | I'll buy you guys the website if you go for that | 22:24 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 22:24 |
| lbt | crashanddie: rofl | 22:25 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: 1) scriptable? 2) yes 3) depends on drivers | 22:27 |
| lbt | the design seperates the recording/scheduling part from the playback part | 22:27 |
| lbt | backend/frontend | 22:28 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, people who say 'she' when they mean 'they' need punishment. | 22:28 |
| lbt | http://www.mythbuntu.org/ | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | i don't plan to be recording anything beyond internet streams perhaps | 22:28 |
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| lbt | ah... MythTV is a PVR - wouldn't know about internet streams | 22:29 |
| lbt | can't say yes/no but probably OTT for just doing that | 22:29 |
| lbt | I have small/cheap diskless systems as set-top boxes | 22:29 |
| * Stskeeps is planning his survival in poland so | 22:30 | |
| lbt | can you pick up satellite? | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | not easily | 22:30 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: I'm currently using xbmc as a frontend, and Freevo (via web) to schedule recording | 22:30 |
| lbt | satellite DVB cards are cheap | 22:30 |
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| crashanddie | GAN800, you need punishment too | 22:31 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: yeah.. but i would need more than just a disc i guess | 22:33 |
| crashanddie | so that's what that button does | 22:33 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: well, it depends what you're trying to do | 22:34 |
| lbt | We don't have a normal TV anymore | 22:34 |
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| lbt | haven't had for about 5 years | 22:34 |
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| RST38h | Hehe, http://gizmodo.com/5297024/hello-there-are-more-than-just-iphones-in-this-universe | 22:35 |
| RST38h | Guess what is missing in this picture =) | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i haven't had a tv personally ever | 22:35 |
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| lbt | it's better that way | 22:35 |
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| lbt | teach your gf the joys of irc | 22:36 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: she used to irc many years ago before i met her | 22:36 |
| RST38h | lbt: she will take his computer form him then | 22:36 |
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| dneary | qole? | 22:38 |
| VDVsx | ~seen qole | 22:39 |
| infobot | qole <n=qole@d207-6-250-238.bchsia.telus.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 74d 23h 26m 30s ago, saying: 'But it is sunny and warm for the first time this spring, so I'm going to go outside and enjoy it...'. | 22:39 |
| VDVsx | wow, not a irc guy :P | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | he's on #maemo-meeting at times | 22:40 |
| lbt | nah, the door slammed.... | 22:40 |
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| Proteous-phone | he's locked outside | 22:42 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, ah, there also entertainer: https://launchpad.net/entertainer | 22:42 |
| VDVsx | clutter based :) | 22:42 |
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| fie_ | What was that one cheap GPS that rocks? | 23:26 |
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| Proteous-phone | you know, that one | 23:29 |
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| fie_ | Proteous-phone, yeah! you know the one I'm talking about | 23:32 |
| fie_ | Proteous-phone, It was the iblue 737 that I was thinking of. it was recommended in here...... and everyone here has the same opinion of course. | 23:32 |
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| fie_ | thx anyway :P | 23:33 |
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| Proteous-phone | heh, glad I could help | 23:34 |
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