IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-06-16

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parigaudihi00:21
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parigaudii just got a bluetooth usb dongle and would like to use it to connect my n810 to internet (my pc being the gateway)00:22
parigaudisearching around for the configuration for this, i've found quite mixed info that doesn't really help me00:22
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parigaudifor one: on the pc side (linux) i have bluez and pand00:23
parigaudibut if i understand correctly, there's no pand any more for maemo and one has to use some weird dbus stuff there ?00:24
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johnsqHi00:44
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coldbootI found an extremely obscure bug that only happens in Scratchbox 2 or on the nokia device.00:48
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coldbootWhen you click on the "Hello" button once or twice, in Scratchbox 2 or on the device, then click on the white square, which is a QTableView, you will see a brief flash. This is because the code is calling QMainWindow::setCentralWidget() and starting a QEventLoop. Here's the source: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/17699/qt-bug-test-table.tar.bz200:52
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etrunkodoes anyone know more about hildon-desktop[30560]: GLIB WARNING ** ClutterGLX - Pixmap with depth bellow 24 are not supported01:25
lcuketrunko, clutter works on full color images possibly?01:27
* lcuk would read it that way01:28
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etrunkolcuk: yeah, looking at the clutter code it's exactly what happens01:32
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etrunkohttps://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/clutter0.8/clutter/glx/clutter-glx-texture-pixmap.c01:32
lcukyour engine is 16bit isnt it01:33
lcukhttp://www.google.co.uk/search?q=CLUTTER_TEXTURE_FLAG_16_BIT01:33
etrunkolcuk: yup01:33
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lcukwhat happens if you disable clutter?01:33
lcukthis theoretical gamemode which would shutdown the compositing01:33
lcukor you could rendering into an rgb xvideo plane if it exists on device01:34
lcukor are you wanting clutterygoodness :D01:34
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etrunkolcuk: hmmm.. will try to disable it01:35
lcuknot sure of consequencies yet01:35
lcukits just being formulated for people who want gl01:35
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smackpotatwill noki repair a bricked device02:02
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xnt14~seen b-man1602:56
infobotb-man16 <n=b-man@pool-71-124-32-204.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 8h 47m 35s ago, saying: 'awesome :)'.02:56
xnt14xD02:56
* xnt14 sits down and tries emacs02:56
locutuson a n810? :P02:57
xnt14um no :P02:57
xnt14desktop02:57
xnt14apt-get install emacs02:57
xnt14reading database...02:57
xnt14:P02:57
locutusi know what emacs is02:57
locutusi use XEmacs02:58
xnt14I know02:58
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* xnt14 will try to get emacs running on an n810 later 02:59
xnt14xmonad + emacs = ?02:59
xnt14nah02:59
xnt14how about porting (real) x to maemo?03:00
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xnt14so them we can run xmonad on our nits :P03:00
xnt14or dwm if you prefer03:00
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xnt14well ill try dwm later, I also prefer c instead of Haskell03:00
xnt14Haskell = confusing03:01
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Firebirdxorg is written in haskell?03:13
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philvHrmn, anyone ever had their n810 refuse to acquire a GPS fix? I seem to get two satellites but that's it, indoors or out04:22
LinuxCodephilv, wait 20 mins04:23
LinuxCodemine is rubbish like that04:23
nomisphilv: and make sure that your clock is set correctly.04:23
nomisoh wait, I actually might have confused that with a problem on a tomtom.04:24
NoikeN810 is not mature product! Have many hw prob04:25
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philvLinuxCode: I've left it for about 3 hours now04:25
philvSitting on a window sill04:25
LinuxCodephilv, widow sill might not do04:25
philvIt refused to acquire a fix for the last few weeks, even when driving to/from work, for example.04:25
* LinuxCode manged to only get a lock once04:25
LinuxCodephilv, yeh ;-|04:25
LinuxCodethe gps feature is rather disappointing04:25
philvIt just annoys me, as it was working flawlessly up until then04:26
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nomisup until *when*?04:26
philvFour weeks ago maybe?04:27
nomissome random timepoint where you actually did nothing?  ;-)04:27
philvhehe04:27
philvI took it on a reasonably long road trip two months ago, and it worked then04:27
philvand I seem to have a work route saved from mid-may04:27
nomisphilv: I haven't tried recently, but it used to work okay'ish for me as well. Have you ever experimented with the agps software?04:28
philvNot other than opening it up04:28
philvI normally use Maemo Mapper04:28
NoikeOther flaw of n810 is in flash part. Warn you all!04:29
nomisphilv: try setting your rough location with the a-gps application and make sure that your clock is set correctly (timezone *and* time). Cannot hurt.04:30
nomisNoike: you mean the wrong partitioning of the flash?04:30
nomisis that still not fixed?04:30
* nomis fixed it manually=04:30
philvI think that issue has long since been fixed04:31
philvIf not, it's an easy fix to do by hand ;)04:31
* nomis nods04:31
LinuxCodewrong partitoning ?04:34
philvOne of the partitions extended into lala land, ISTR.04:34
NoikeSomehow you could easily bricked your n8xx04:35
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philvHrmn, clearing the almanac (I guess it is...) in /var/lib/gps seems to have helped04:35
nomisLinuxCode: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=294004:36
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* lcuk bashed head against wall and goes to bed04:37
lcukhttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/chinook/libliqbase_0.3.4/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt04:37
* nomis avoids the bashing head part but goes to bed as well. Night all.04:38
* b-man16 waits for openembedded on his tablet to update 6,894 files before building nano :P04:41
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b-man16so far, 4580/689404:51
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nikosapihey, what's the /dev device for the n810's internal flash?05:53
n6pfk/dev/mmc/blk005:57
n6pfkoops, /dev/mmcblko05:57
n6pfk005:57
n6pfk0 not o05:58
n6pfkdf will report it.05:58
nikosapiisn't that one of the sd cards?05:58
n6pfkYou're right05:59
n6pfkdf should show it.05:59
n6pfkor mount.06:00
nikosapiI'm booting off a flash card because I borked the distro that's on the internal flash06:00
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nikosapithe distro that's installed on the internal flash stops booting right before the picture of the two hands is displayed06:01
n6pfkOh, can't you just reflash  it over the usb.06:01
nikosapiit's rather annoying06:01
nikosapiI don't want to reflash :P06:01
nikosapiat least not before I back up my data06:01
n6pfkAre u gonna try a root change?06:02
n6pfkchroot.06:02
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nikosapiyep, that's the plan06:02
n6pfkSounds like fun.  Good luck.06:02
nikosapidoes anyone here have a NIT that they can run "mount" on?06:03
n6pfkI use mount and uount from a root terminal.06:03
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n6pfkumount.06:04
nikosapiyeah, but I'd just like to know what device is mounted on / for a regular NIT06:04
n6pfkI think it's sda1.06:05
n6pfkBut not sure.06:05
nikosapiit's not that06:05
n6pfktry mounting /dev/sda1.06:05
n6pfkShould be a jffs2 file system.06:06
nikosapithere's no such device on a NIT06:06
n6pfkOk I will power mine up and look around.06:07
nikosapithanks06:08
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Luke-Jrnikosapi: ls /dev/mtdblk*06:09
Luke-JrAny idea where to find a handy ARM reference?06:09
n6pfk/dev/mtdblock406:10
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* Luke-Jr ponders using UBD to improve the wear06:10
nikosapin6pfk: worked, thanks :D06:10
Luke-Jrnikosapi: you probably don't want to use that much06:10
nikosapiuse what?06:11
Luke-Jrnikosapi: /dev/mtdblock*06:11
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nikosapiwhy's that?06:11
Luke-Jrnikosapi: it's raw flash memory06:11
Luke-Jrit will go bad if you abuse it :þ06:12
nikosapiok, I *promise* I'll be gentle06:12
* b-man` is going to scream - my tablet crashed in the middle of bitbake updating it's cache - approximatly 6,894 files - and now has to wait 3 hours for it to restore :P06:12
* b-man` decides to trash openembedded and go back to gentoo06:12
Luke-Jrlol06:13
Luke-Jrb-man`: are you seriously trying to use bitbake on your TABLET?06:13
b-man`....yes06:13
Luke-JrPortage is bad, but bitbake.. wtf are you THINKING06:13
Luke-Jrbitbake demands GBs of memory just for itsefl06:13
b-man`i wasn't XD06:14
b-man`that's partly why i'm trashing it XD06:14
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b-man`it's horrible06:14
Luke-Jrlulz06:14
nikosapiIs there a way to enable some sort of logging on maemo? I'd really like to know where my NIT is getting stuck.06:17
nikosapiThis isn't the first time this has happened and I really don't want to reflash :(06:17
b-man`at least with portage i can actually build software without waiting 5 days for it to updating itself every friggen time it builds a package06:17
Luke-JrLOL06:17
* b-man` nukes openembedded and trys to erase the horrible experience from his head06:18
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b-man`rm -rf /mnt/mer/oe/openembedded DIE!! DIE!! DIE!!06:20
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* Luke-Jr watches b-man` have his root system bind-mounted, and destroey06:21
b-man`nah, it mostly corrupted my mer install XP06:22
b-man`because bitbake crashed it06:23
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b-man`~burn bitbake06:24
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b-man`infobot: burn bitbake06:27
* b-man` pours gasoline all over bitbake, ignites the fire, and then enjoys the awesome blaze06:29
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FireFox3Luke-Jr kicked my from #anime because he thinks firefox sucks XD07:21
nikosapiwhat's better in his opinion?07:22
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Proteousssh on my n97 ftw07:39
Proteousno hardware alt or cntrl keys though07:39
Proteousdespite all the people complaining about the cpu speed, the web browsing is snapier then my n81007:40
Proteousand so far I think I like the keyboard better07:41
MacerProteous: uhm07:45
Macerdownload symbian putty07:45
Maceroh you said no hw putty07:46
Macerer keys07:46
Macerdoesnt the n97 have a crappier cam than the n95?07:46
Proteousyeah, I'm using putty07:47
Macerlike. no flash and less mp or something?07:47
Proteousit,s 5mp and quite nice07:47
Macerand no 3d accel?07:47
Macerah ok07:47
Proteouswith duale led flash07:47
Macerok. must have been the n9607:47
Proteousno 3d accel,yeah07:47
Macer'the step backwards'07:48
Proteousheh07:48
Macerso it is an updated n95 then?07:48
Proteousnot a big deal for me07:48
Macerw/ dvd quality vid?07:48
Macermy n95 takes amazing video for a phone07:48
Proteousand the big feature for me, a keyboard07:48
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Proteousfor ssh07:49
Maceroh. it has a qwerty?07:49
Proteousyeah...07:49
Macerwow. thats pretty awesome07:49
Proteousand a high res screen07:49
rdvonz_is there a way for me to use the n810 like a wireless card? so it can07:49
rdvonz_connect to the router, I can connect it via usb or something then use it to07:49
rdvonz_connect my pc to the internet?07:49
Macerwhat freqs?07:49
Macerdoes it support tmob 3G?07:49
Proteousno07:49
Macerdamn07:49
Proteoussadly07:49
Proteousjust att07:50
Macerwtf nokia? :)07:50
Maceryah07:50
Macermy n95 too07:50
Proteoustmobile edge works07:50
Maceryeah07:50
Macerscrew that tho07:50
Proteousssh doesnt need 3g heh07:50
Maceri take it with me when i need to take pics or video07:50
Macertethering does ;)07:50
Maceras does voip07:50
Proteousright now I am at home on wifi07:50
Proteousyeah07:51
Maceri couldnt keep att07:51
Proteousatts data plan rates suck07:51
Macertheir data sucks period07:51
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Macerin chicago it is horrible07:51
Macerconstant drops from voice and data while stationary07:52
Proteousits preetty nice here in the san fran area07:52
Macerthey blamed my (at the time) $550 n9507:52
Macerlol07:52
Proteous...07:52
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Macerso i used their pos 3g razr and had the same problem07:53
Proteousheh07:53
ProteousI'm probably just going to use edge so I can keep a ssh session going constantly and still have battery at the end of the day07:54
Proteouswell see how it goes07:54
Proteouser, we'll07:55
Maceri thought edge blocks the voice channel07:55
Proteousit might, we'll see07:56
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thuxmorning09:36
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X-FadeMorning09:51
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Stskeepsmorning X-Fade09:58
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RST38hehlo Sts10:24
jaemhello folks10:24
Stskeepsehlo RST38h10:25
zakkmhey guys :)10:25
jaemhey zakkm10:26
zakkmhey jaem :)10:26
jaemmy uni's engineering department is running a photography contest :D10:30
zakkmintersting10:30
jaemwhich has gotten me started using Flickr10:30
jaemwhich reminds me... is there yet any way to browse cameras on Maemo?10:31
jaemor at least Mer?10:31
jaemI saw an app that worked with a few models...10:31
zakkmbrowse cameras?10:31
jaempictures on cameras*10:31
jaemmy card reader is too current-hungry to run from the OTG port10:32
jaemand I don't feel like buying a new one at the moment10:32
zakkmpicture viewing app?10:33
zakkmcant you stick memory card into nokia?10:33
jaemfull-size SD10:33
jaemI have an N81010:33
zakkmoh10:34
zakkmcut it :D10:34
jaemand besides, I boot from the external10:34
jaemum...10:34
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jaem:/10:34
zakkmcant that work if you cut it right?10:34
jaemeven the good brand (OCZ) is flimsy enough - and even if it wouldn't irreversibly damage the internals, that would still be a terrible idea10:34
jaemlol10:34
Stskeepscan't you just connect your camera directly through f-f? :P10:34
zakkmjaem: ill mail you my f-f adapter if your use it :P10:35
jaemyes, but it uses PTP, not mass storage, or anything nice like that10:35
jaemzakkm: thank - I have one10:35
zakkmhave you tried?10:35
jaema nasty yellow colour, but it's the standard budget model, available through NCIX and DX10:35
jaemyeah10:35
zakkmyou could always get those eye-fi wifi cards for camera :D10:36
jaemI believe those are Windows-only on the PC side10:36
zakkmgot my f-f adapter at the source, dang people didnt know they existed lol10:36
jaembut otherwise that might work10:36
jaemwell, it /is/ the Source10:36
zakkmi went to like 5 computer stores "that doesnt exist" "that wouldnt do anything they couldnt read eachother"10:36
jaemyou're lucky if they know the difference between SPST and SPDT switches10:36
jaemhahaha10:37
jaemfigures10:37
zakkmbut to say it doesnt exist?10:37
zakkmthey can say oh i never seen one, i didnt know they existed10:37
zakkmor i never heard of it10:37
zakkmthey were like so certain it didnt exist / it wouldnt work at all10:37
jaemwell, if they hadn't heard of OTG, they might well presume it would be useless10:37
jaembut even then, it would probably exist for odd corner-cases10:37
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jaemby the way... http://www.flickr.com/photos/ffejery/3630191549/sizes/l/10:38
zakkmone guy at uhh staples? hes like trying to help me find it but he keeps finding male to male / female to male10:38
zakkmwhichwouldnt do me any good10:38
zakkmwhat is that?10:38
jaemit's a retro calculator screen10:38
jaemlikely early 80s, but I'm not sure10:39
jaemmaybe older10:39
zakkmStskeeps: would you know if its possible to port normal gtk themes onto maemo?10:39
jaemit's one of my entries for the aforementioned contest10:39
* jaem would like to know too10:39
zakkmaforementioned?10:39
jaemmentioned before10:39
zakkmthe photography one?10:39
jaemyes10:39
jaemthe photo is entitled "7-SEG"10:39
zakkmat least have it have some sick numbers :P10:39
zakkmoh10:40
zakkmokay :D10:40
jaemdo you get it?10:40
Stskeepszakkm: you will need to put a lot of gtk grease on top10:40
zakkmsegment?10:40
zakkmgtk grease how?10:40
zakkmelaborate please10:40
jaemmost people just ask "what does seven-point-five-three-nine mean?"10:40
Stskeepsas in go look at the deb file / gtkrc of a hildon theme10:40
zakkmim sure gtkrc would need editing cause of positioning and all10:40
jaemzakkm: oil the bits - they'll work better10:40
jaemXD10:40
zakkmbut is it just the gtkrc thats required changing?10:41
Macerugh. i am still setting up this harmony remote10:41
zakkmwooh10:41
zakkmthose are expensive10:41
Macernot really10:41
Maceri got a 520... it wasn't that bad10:41
zakkmMacer: i cant find any full episodes of it, i searched like everywhere10:41
Macerwow seriously? :)10:41
zakkmyeah10:41
jaem"Are your bits not flipping?  Try our new WD-%101000!"10:41
Macerbits not flipping haha10:42
zakkmwhy is it bits?10:42
jaemit doesn't have to be10:42
jaemyou could take just a nybble10:42
jaemor byte right into it10:42
jaembut I might have to have a word with you10:42
Macerzakkm: i dunno man. i think watching a few episodes on youtube is the best you're probably going to get10:43
Macer:)10:43
zakkmMacer: yeah that would be okay, but i saw them all lol10:43
Macerit wasn't an actual series. it was just a couple of episodes on dateline10:43
* jaem wishes "dynner" hadn't been thrown into the "too stupid" category of terminology10:43
zakkmand its all clips, not eps10:43
Maceryeah10:43
Macerbecause it was a part of a show.. not the entire show10:43
* jaem also laments the fall of the unit "Mohs"10:43
Maceri'm still encoding these damn dvds for my little son10:44
Macergood lord this is taking forever10:44
zakkmStskeeps: heh i found the perfect way for me to use mer, easy-mer :) adds in the maemo apps, and they have fullscreen keyboard :P haha10:44
zakkmMacer: why you encoding?10:45
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Macerso id on't have to swap out these damn dvds10:46
Macerheh10:46
Macerit's a pain and i just didn't feel like doing it before10:46
Macerso i'm encoding 60 damn disney movies10:46
zakkmheh10:46
zakkmwhat does he like?10:46
jaemgah10:46
zakkmdisney classics?10:46
jaemstupid flies crawling on my screen10:46
Macerwhat makes it so bad is that i'm doing it on my macbook so my laptop is sucked up has been running full speed for 3 days10:46
Macerzakkm: all the movies really10:47
zakkmMacer: i have a full dcom collection.10:47
jaemand unfortunately, they're not the type of flies that you can smash with a click, like that old app from Win9510:47
Macerhe doesn't like the real old ones like peter pan and other real old ones that are rather classic10:47
zakkmdoes he like dcoms?10:47
Macerdcoms?10:47
zakkmdisney original10:47
Macerlike the shorts?10:47
zakkmhighskool musical = the most popular10:47
Macerlol. no10:47
Macerhe is 3. he wouldn't understand high school musical10:48
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zakkmhalloweentown, you wish, tru confessions, scream team, zenons, cow belles, northern lights.10:48
zakkmah10:48
Maceri'm suprised he watched alice in wonderland10:48
Maceri never saw it before but wow is that one hard to understand :)10:48
zakkmheh10:49
zakkmi belong to a nice group that collects old tape recordings n such10:49
Maceryou have the movie american yakuza?10:49
Macer:)10:49
zakkm?10:50
Maceri can't seem to find it anywhere10:50
Macerit's classic. like showdown in little tokyo10:50
zakkmwhat si that?10:50
Macerhaha10:50
Macerkind of like american ninja but not as horrible. white guy gains the trust of the japanese yakuza boss... etc10:50
Macerit's pretty good10:50
zakkmmacer - pm10:53
jaemhaha: http://www.geekobuilder.es/10:59
jaemI like the Red-on-white "Vote For Linux" shirt10:59
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Macervote for linux :-P11:02
* Macer pulls the "Opensolaris" lever11:02
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jaemMacer: come on... Plan9 is the Next Big Thing for the desktop11:07
zakkmyour all wrong, its Gnome 3.0 :D11:08
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jaemzakkm: right... easy mistake to make11:08
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Macerhaha11:11
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JaffaMorning, all11:14
jaemmorning, Jaffa11:14
jaemg'night, all11:22
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Stskeepsmorning jaffa11:23
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* lcuk yawns11:35
lcukmornin jaffa, Stskeeps11:36
zakkmmorning lcuk :)11:37
lcukmornin zakkm \o11:37
lcukhows it goin zakkm11:38
zakkmwhat time is it there?11:38
zakkmtrying out easy-mer, trying to update to 0.14 from 0.1311:38
lcukdaytime lol11:38
zakkmits 4;38am here, still havent gone to sleep11:38
lcuktsk tsk, you sound like me :S11:38
zakkm:) thank you11:39
lcukwhen you arent so tired would you like to pull your hair out and try to get some working debs? :D11:39
* lcuk has none left11:39
zakkmof liqbase?11:40
lcukyeah :D11:40
zakkmill give it an attempt in the morning?11:41
lcukyeah if you would :$ its up on github, i last tinkered and tried last night11:41
lcukhold on, lemme get a link11:41
zakkmi got it11:41
zakkmi save chatlogs :D11:41
lcukhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Stars/liqbase11:41
zakkmalso googling helps ;p11:41
lcuklol ahh11:41
zakkmdid i mention i went to TLUG ?11:42
lcukgoogling wont help actually in this case - not for the live stuffs.  had other issues with garage git support11:42
zakkmthat was interesting ;p11:42
lcuki heard something about it yeah11:42
zakkmno11:43
zakkmi meant to find your git link11:43
zakkmnot to solve why it wont compile/run11:43
lcukahh lol, even i couldnt find my latest git stuff11:43
zakkmheh got to see a OLPC for the first time11:44
zakkmthatt thing is smallll the keyboard11:44
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lcukthey are nice11:45
lcuktoy looking tho11:45
lcukwhich is the idea :)11:46
zakkmi went to ask im like wow can i see it , im like its small hes like ":your not a kid" :P11:46
lcukheh11:47
lcukits fisher price computing11:47
lcukanyway, you get yourself some sleep soon, im gonna vanish and get coffee \o cya later and give us a shout if you discover anything11:48
zakkmlcuk: looking to make a "runnable" deb?11:49
lcukyeah11:49
zakkmjust curious, couldnt the same method be done11:49
* timeless_mbp grumbles11:50
lcukthe debian folder in both technically does what its meant to11:50
zakkmthe deb would just add to specific folder all the files, and add a .desktop for maemo launcher?11:50
timeless_mbpwho works on gPodder?11:50
lcuki can do make make install from both on my system11:50
lcukyes11:50
zakkmwhat part of that fails?11:50
lcuknone11:50
zakkm?11:50
lcukthe dpkg-buildpackage goes through11:50
zakkmso what doesnt work11:50
lcuklemme dig out last nights autobuilder11:51
lcukhttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/libliqbase_0.3.4/11:51
zakkmpermission denied?11:52
zakkmchown permission denied?11:52
zakkmwould i be able to have access to that builder?11:53
Macerheh11:53
Maceralways fun to debate subs vs dubs with anime people11:53
Macer:)11:53
lcukno, but could you try building debs on your system11:53
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zakkmhow do you get permission denied?11:53
lcuki dunno, but im sure its me11:54
lcukcould you just try to build debs in your scratchbox and see how they install :$11:54
lcukive not had debs yet11:54
* lcuk is entirely on device11:54
lcuk^runnable11:54
zakkmi have a lazy approach idea that ill try "tomorrow"11:55
lcukok zakkm its v late over there11:55
lcuki think the perms issue is red herring, but it might not be11:56
lcukthe previous autobuild just gave up without trying11:56
lcukno error reason, no logs of what it did11:56
lcukit just stopped11:56
lcuk:S11:56
zakkmit shows chown permission denied.11:56
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zakkmdpkg-source: failure: cannot stat libliqbase-0.3.4/debian/rules: Permission denied11:56
lcukso thats an issue with the builder, or with the package/11:58
zakkmbuilder11:58
zakkmunless your tryign to do something the package wont have permission for11:58
zakkmlike the builder wouldnt allow you do11:58
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lcukits trying to access files though, running its own commands on them11:59
zakkmyeah im looking at rules file now11:59
lcukdo permissions of files in the .deb get applied when its extracted?11:59
lcuk.tar.gz^12:00
zakkmit doesnt change permissions.12:00
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Stskeepsis debian/rules +x?12:00
zakkmlcuk: why you have mac file use -O3 ?12:01
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zakkmmakefile*12:02
lcukcos o3 is the optimization level i found to work better than o2 in my code12:02
zakkmheh alot of ppl say it doesnt make a difference12:03
lcuki did testing last year on my codebase12:03
lcukand the engine parts are the same12:03
zakkmlike it adds all compile flags, but in the end result alot say it doesnt make it any faster/smoother or anything12:03
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lcukit might be right now lol12:06
lcuki have to vanish, ill call back asap, thanks for this peek12:07
* RST38h points magic wand at lcuk12:07
zakkm-.- whats with python taknig 100% cpu12:07
zakkmon nokia12:07
RST38hkill it.12:08
zakkmi did12:08
zakkmbut it was rebooted12:08
zakkmlike it was started on a reboot12:08
RST38husing mingpsd?12:08
Myrttifirst rule of software: any given piece of software takes all the resources available to it ;-)12:08
zakkmno12:08
RST38hminigpsd, sorry12:08
zakkmn80012:09
zakkmMyrtti: not if you use nice :D12:09
RST38hWhat software are you using?12:09
RST38hHave you got any desktop applets or status bar applets?12:09
RST38hMyrtti: first rule of system administration: start by removing any software that takes all available resources12:09
zakkmno :( well yeah but nothing new12:09
RST38h(and yes, I do mean Windows =))12:10
RST38hzakkm: Please list all of them12:10
zakkmjust the usual load-applet / advanced brightness ive always had12:10
zakkmthats it12:10
RST38hwhat about desktop?12:10
zakkmnone12:10
RST38hok12:10
zakkmi dont like desktop for some reason12:10
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RST38hCanola, MediaBox?12:10
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zakkmboth :(12:10
zakkmbut its just this reboot12:11
zakkmlike as if i did something12:11
dymaxionhi there, is there anyway to get a full debug log from the N810 Internet Call application?12:11
timeless_mbpStskeeps: so... i just filed...hrm12:11
zakkmis there any nice way to install gcc and such on tablet?12:11
RST38hWell, if I understand correctly at least the Canola uses a background media scanner12:11
zakkmdymaxion: run it in terminal, might help12:11
RST38hTHAT may be it12:11
timeless_mbp4 bugs against gPodder using bugzilla12:11
dymaxionwhen usingi that SIP phone it connects to 500@ekiga.net and magically works out of the box from behind my Symmetric NAT, yet ekiga  desktop app failsl miserably...12:11
zakkmtimeless_mbp: why?12:11
timeless_mbpzakkm: because i can?12:12
zakkmnah i just updated12:12
zakkmand now my nokia is acting weird after reboot12:12
timeless_mbpStskeeps: the point is, it's trivial for me to file bugs w/ bugzilla :)12:12
zakkmthought it was connected12:12
RST38hzakkm: Updated what?12:12
zakkmgpodder and uhh something else12:12
zakkmthat doesnt even use python though does it?12:12
dymaxionzakkm,  wondered what switches to add... and also what the executable was called...12:14
RST38hgPodder does use Python afaik12:14
RST38hSo, remove gPodder and see what happens12:14
zakkmwell i killed python and its fine , i dont normally reboot it was just cause i had easy-mer running and then it froze so i hard booted12:15
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: yeah, it good, small things we can put peopel to do12:15
zakkmis there scratchbox/dpkg-dev for nokia itself?12:15
zakkmor build-essential?12:15
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: within the next days i'm building a mer with same strings as fremantle sdk, should be good for seeing missing strings etc12:15
timeless_mbpStskeeps: if the licenses don't suck, i might look into fixing things for you on Sunday12:16
timeless_mbpgive me a set of files12:16
Stskeepswill do, just updating the image atm12:16
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zakkmwhere would i find gcc for maemo?12:18
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: licenses seem not to suck, except it looks like it's old bsd license12:18
Stskeeps(doable)12:18
timeless_mbpif it's old instead of new, please file a bug12:19
timeless_mbpi can't imagine they wouldn't fix that12:19
Stskeepshm, sec12:19
Stskeepsah no12:19
Stskeepsit's new license12:19
Stskeepsit's not the "advertising materials" clause, i re-read it wrong :)12:20
Stskeepswant a tarball with all the tar.gz's and packages unpacked?12:20
Stskeepshttp://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/strings.tar12:21
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zakkmcan i install gcc for maemo/mer?12:22
RST38hyou can12:23
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RST38hask lcuk he will tell you how12:23
lcukzakkm, on your scratchbox, there is an sdk and an sdk/tools repository.  those have armel counterparts and include gcc and build-essential type stuff12:24
zakkmsend it over to maemo and dpkg -i ?12:24
lcukdont even think of trying to get configure and dpkg working, it took me much hacking to even attempt it12:25
timeless_mbp./hildon-application-manager-l10n-public_6.0+r6710+0m5.tar.gz12:25
timeless_mbpisn't expanded?12:25
lcukzakkm, even simpler, just add the deb line to your repos list12:25
zakkmmind sharing the line?12:25
zakkmdiablo one12:26
timeless_mbphrm12:26
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: it's expanded, just wanted to take the tar.gz's along too12:26
lcukdeb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo/sdk free non-free12:26
lcukdeb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free non-free12:26
lcukdeb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ diablo free non-free12:26
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Stskeepshildon-application-manager-l10n-public-6.0+r6710+0m5/12:26
timeless_mbpStskeeps: indeed12:27
timeless_mbpthe datestamps or something must be funny12:27
lcukdeb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo/tools free non-free12:27
lcukforget the extras, misclicked12:27
zakkm?12:27
lcukbut all this takes its toll on your device, you will have space problems unless you cut out much stuff12:27
zakkmi boot off sd.12:27
lcuki pasted lines from extras and -devel12:27
lcukahhh fine enough then12:28
zakkmheh12:28
zakkmcant use jffs2 on n800 ;p12:28
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lcukyou can get most stuff up and running12:28
lcukjust dont try to get git to update to the garage https servers yet12:29
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lcukhey wazd \o, i like your app launcher mockup, its cherrypicked the best elements from everything seen around recently (as all good designs do).  well done :)12:31
zakkmlcuk: dont know how to use garage12:31
zakkmwhats link to mockup? :D12:31
RST38hlcuk: screenshot? =)12:31
lcukill let wazd show it, its really sweet12:32
lcukits for mer tho lol12:32
wazdRST38h: wait a bit :)12:32
zakkmwazd: i wanna see too12:32
* RST38h salivates12:32
wazdhttp://i079.radikal.ru/0906/e8/d12815a5d9ba.jpg12:32
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zakkmwow12:32
Stskeepsi think it actually looks immensely more useful than the fremantle sdk one12:32
zakkmi also like the menu icon too12:33
zakkmthe one next to mer12:33
wazdzakkm: well, I'm still wondering what took me so long to figure out how it should look :)12:33
lcukwazd, all it needs is liq* tiling for the items within each category (just to do the layout) so that it looks balance12:34
RST38hwazd: the top row of icons is for shortcuts to often used apps?12:34
wazdRST38h: yep12:34
RST38hcoool12:34
zakkmso wahts the ETA on this? :D12:34
RST38hwazd: Are you familiar with NeXTstep file manager concept?12:34
lcukzakkm, wazds work is done12:34
lcukhis eta is complete12:34
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RST38hwazd: [it is also present in the current MacOS, although you have to enable it explicitly]12:35
wazdRST38h: I guess not12:35
lcuknow, go and write the menu iteself12:35
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lcukwazd, that list of favorite apps - its the items from the original first menu isnt it12:36
* lcuk cant remember the name12:36
wazdlcuk: well, call it as you like :)12:36
RST38hwazd: thingie in the middle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NeXTSTEP_desktop.jpg12:36
wazdlcuk: it's always visible anyway :)12:36
lcuk"my selection"12:36
lcuki mean in the current n8x0 menus12:36
lcukit exists12:36
lcukthose are the items you can put on the top12:36
RST38hwazd: the main part is three columns showing the last three directories in the navigation path12:37
wazdlcuk: "My Favourites" I think12:37
RST38hwazd: the middle section lets you quickly scroll through directories in your navigation path12:37
lcukahh im reading the finish12:37
RST38hwazd: the top section contains shortcuts12:37
lcuk"tana_fi_my_selection"12:37
zakkm:( networkmanager not running12:38
wazdRST38h: well, vista explorer acts pretty same thing but looks different :)12:39
RST38hwazd: never seen it in this layout =)12:39
RST38hon the other hand, I do not get to use Vista that often12:39
lcukyou are lucky12:39
zakkmwindows sucks :D12:39
RST38hThere is a semi-recent implementation of NeXT file manager for WindowMaker: http://www.bayernline.de/~gscholz/linux/fsviewer/12:40
wazdRST38h: and you don't see all folders in parent folder, just the name of the parent folder itself12:40
RST38hwazd: yeeek./12:40
timeless_mbphttp://i079.radikal.ru/0906/e8/d12815a5d9ba.jpg -- yum12:40
zakkmwhats the network manager name in mer ?12:40
zakkmby command12:40
RST38hAnyways, I though that the ideas from the NeXT file manager can be put to some use in Mer12:40
wazdRST38h: Shortcuts are reallu good idea, but I don't think that we have screen estate for three coloumns though12:41
lcuk2 columns with easy readable text works nicely12:42
timeless_mbpwazd: of text?12:42
* timeless_mbp ponders12:42
RST38hwazd: We have got an extra wide screen, why not?12:42
timeless_mbpRST38h: in pixels yes12:43
timeless_mbpin inches, not really12:43
lcukRST38h, nokia dont supply maginifying glasses with devices12:43
RST38hpixels or inches, it is still wider than 4x312:43
wazdRST38h: we have pretty small widescreen :)12:43
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timeless_mbplcuk: they're an after market upgrade12:43
lcukahhh whats the sku?12:43
timeless_mbpdunno12:43
RST38hwazd: Two columns should suffice though12:43
RST38hlcuk: A shippable product configuraton12:44
RST38hlcuk: i.e. a box with a gadget and certain selection of accessories is a SKU12:44
RST38hChange accessories, or a color of the gadget body and it is a different SKU12:45
timeless_mbpRST38h: no no12:45
timeless_mbphe wasn't asking for a definition12:45
timeless_mbphe was asking what my sku number was for the value add :)12:45
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RST38hOh12:45
wazdhttp://www.webdesignerdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/nextstep-1.jpg <- some larger screenshot12:48
* RST38h sheds a tear for the NeXTstep12:49
timeless_mbpwazd: you're trying to emulate OSX? :)12:49
zakkmnextstep is no where near osx :D12:50
lcukwazd is steve jobs really.  i mean - have you ever seen wazd and steve jobs in the channel at the same time..12:50
wazdtimeless_mbp: I'm trying to emulate "best os for portable users" :)12:50
RST38hOSX is too heavy on eyecandy and too light on function12:50
RST38hNeXTstep UI was just right12:50
timeless_mbpwazd: you don't want to be the best? merely emulate it? how disappointing12:51
timeless_mbpyou've been too close to Nokia designers12:51
RST38hAlso, NeXTstep UI was clean (most likely because of the limited performance that kept sugar levels down)12:51
wazdtimeless_mbp: If I'll do best right away - what would I do next?)12:52
lcukRST38h, everywhere you look, simplification to optimize the experience is key :)12:52
timeless_mbpoh, you're one of those people who design for job security12:52
* timeless_mbp sighs12:52
timeless_mbpyou really have spent too much time near Nokians12:52
RST38hlcuk: Not always. Microsoft simplified and got Vista12:52
wazdtimeless_mbp: This is not my "job" :)12:52
lcukRST38h, but between xp and vista they brought in 000's of new devs12:52
lcukeach of their simplifications added up to more12:53
* RST38h greatly suspects that replacing some Nokians with wazd would actually help Fremantle.12:53
timeless_mbpRST38h: oh, easily12:53
wazdtimeless_mbp: I'm doing totally different things to get money for design. Thats sad but that's how it works now :)12:53
timeless_mbpas long as he was given authority12:53
timeless_mbpRST38h: otoh, if he wasn't given authority, he'd just die12:53
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* RST38h isn't sure just who is given authority at Nokia after seeing some screenshots12:54
lcukthat only works if the designer in chief understands the limitations and practicalities of the systemthats under him12:54
RST38hNo reasonable explanation even if we assume that the task was to emulate S60 widget set12:54
lcukno point in designing a marble palace if there is no marble on your continent12:54
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wazdlcuk: that's exactly what I'm doing in Mer Project :)12:55
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lcukuh huh and tis looking good so far :D12:55
timeless_mbpRST38h: it's the peter principle12:57
RST38hARM promises dual-core Cortex A9-based smartphones next year13:02
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wazdRST38h: snoop control unit xD13:08
lcukand pocket warmers13:13
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X-FadeStskeeps: http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Linux-Distributions/Mer-48480.shtml13:27
X-FadeStskeeps: Did you see that one already?13:27
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Stskeepshehe, not bad i guess13:32
Stskeepsthey got maemo.org right ;)13:32
X-FadeStskeeps: tekojo got a mail that it was added.13:32
Stskeeps*nod*13:33
X-FadeI'm not sure if this helps or that this is search engine bait, but at least it is pretty accurate.13:33
Stskeepssoftpedia is fairly known13:34
Stskeepshttp://news.softpedia.com/13:34
StskeepsX-Fade: are you taking any holidays this year btw / time when i should expect you're not around this summer?13:36
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X-FadeStskeeps: Currently looking at November, certainly not during the regular summer season.13:38
Stskeepsalright13:38
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lcukany particular gotchas with ubuntu 9.04 and scratchbox?13:39
X-FadeStskeeps: With Nokia^WFinland being gone in July, I think I have to be there at least ;)13:39
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StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, true, things go rather awry otherwise13:42
StskeepsX-Fade: so i presume softpedia listing isn't a bad thing, given that quim just fwded me the mail himself? :P13:42
X-FadeHeh ;)13:42
X-FadeStskeeps: He is also reading info, I guess ;)13:42
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* Stskeeps glances at his thesis13:44
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RST38hlcuk: Pocket warmers are our intellectual property, do not mistake! =)13:55
lcuk!!! but ti are catching up!13:55
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RST38hlcuk: they would have to include a gas burner to reach PIV performance in this area =)13:57
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lcukRST38h, RTG14:01
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RST38hlcuk: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/Soviet_RTG.jpg14:04
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kyndecould some gconf expert tell me why is it that if I copy the directories from /var/lib/gconf/system/osso/connectivity/IAP from one device to another (or even from same device before flashing it) those connections aren't listed at all?14:07
kyndethe directory name itself appears to be a hash of some sort, but I cannot locate the salt. I have the diablo rootfs and I'm trying to add there my default connections, but can't get them there. and I can't find any relevant changes in /var, /etc, where ever...14:08
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pokrKnaany way to get rid of the "USB device not supported" & "Unable to connect, no file system available" messages when connecting a USB device?14:18
pokrKnaconnecting to N81014:18
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kyndeI think not. As I recall, it was ke-recv that spawns it no matter what. I have the same problem when connect a USB nic in host mode. The popup remained something I could not get rid of...14:20
pokrKnaok, thanks :S14:21
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Stskeeps'lo lizardo14:38
lizardoStskeeps: hi14:39
lcukRST38h, looks nice and kid friendly14:39
Stskeepslizardo: you're in pymaemo right?14:39
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lizardoStskeeps: yes ;)14:40
Stskeepslizardo: well, we're slowly starting to adapt python hildon/etc bindings for both Mer and eventually Ubuntu MID, and i'd like to ask if you're interested in cooperating on this manner14:40
Stskeepsso we can have a fairly standard set of software/bindings across the platforms14:41
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Stskeepsso people can target the python bindings and have it run easily on these different targets14:42
lizardoStskeeps: sure, myself and the PyMaemo team can help on this :) do you have any ideas on how we can cooperate on that?14:43
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Stskeepslizardo: do you have any existing collaboration spaces for your bindings? currently we're different a bit in the terms that we don't use pymaemo interpreter for instance (it would be very difficult on ubuntu), so your current packages removes pyc and keeps pyo for instance (which makes sense i agree)14:44
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Stskeepsbut basically we wonder if you have repositories where you have the actual packaging (debian/) and your bindings source seperate for instance..14:46
lizardoStskeeps: actually, that was the behavior in versions prior to fremantle :) in fremantle , we are closely following the Debian Python Policy (for now)... The only change is a tiny patch to python that allows to work with packages that only install .pyo 's and no .pyc/.py (some packages outside of pymaemo do this, but not pymaemo packages themselves)14:47
Stskeepssounds good14:47
Stskeepswe're following fremantle too so14:47
Stskeepshow much is stripped from pymaemo these days?14:48
Stskeepsas in, the main python package (for fremantle)14:48
lizardoStskeeps: for most packages we have keep only the packaging changes (see https://garage.maemo.org/svn/pymaemo/packages) , only a few packages that are maintained by ourselves is kept with full source there14:48
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Stskeepsok, checking14:49
lizardoStskeeps: currently, for the pythob2.5 package, all documentation and the IDLE package14:49
Stskeepssounds fairly reasonable :P14:50
lizardoStskeeps: but in all packages we use the default Debian packaging wherever possible, with changes made on top of it (and as generic as possible so upgrading packaging is made easier if the diff applies cleanly)14:50
Stskeeps*nod*14:51
Stskeepsreason i'm asking is really if the fremantle pymaemo comes with as many initial packages (excepting documentation and idle), so if i depend on python2.5 on ubuntu and on maemo, i would be able to import the same "base" packages?14:52
Stskeepsit wasn't like this in the past so14:52
lizardoStskeeps: one important thing: we closely follow the Debian package versions (and usually the stable branch, with a few exceptions), this more because to stay in sync with Maemo14:52
Stskeeps*nod*14:52
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RST38hHeh, gPodder Maemo5 video once again shows how bad screen layout is going to get14:53
lizardoStskeeps: yes, for fremantle this compatibility is guaranteed... For now. We plan to break this rule only if it proves to save a lot of space, and in these cases it will be documented so developers would know when they will need to tweak the packaging for Maemo14:54
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Stskeeps*nod*14:55
lizardoStskeeps: but the idea is to be compatible with Debian/Ubuntu as much as possible, this was the whole idea of redoing all packages in fremantle :)14:55
Stskeepslizardo: sounds great14:55
Stskeepslizardo: we're also more than interested in using your software so if you need us to test things, we're more than happy14:56
Stskeepswe hang out in #mer (including ubuntu mid peeps) if you're interested14:57
lizardoStskeeps: will be there :)14:57
lizardoStskeeps: I haven't tried Mer yet (mostly due to lack of time :() but I'll follow development where possible14:58
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Stskeepsit's essentially a minimal ubuntu, put hildon application framework packages on top, and non-clutter hildon desktop15:00
Stskeepsworks quite nicely :)15:00
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RichiHdo both the n800 and the n810 have transflexive displays?15:42
RichiHand what about the n900?15:42
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X-FadeRichiH: N810 and N900 only.15:43
RichiHk15:43
X-FadeRichiH: At least the developer unit we tested had tranflective screen.15:43
RichiHdev unit of n900 i assume?15:43
X-FadeYep15:43
RST38hTwo researchers have found a way to run unauthorized code on an iPhone remotely.15:44
RichiHpersonal opinion on it?15:44
lcukAWESOME!15:44
X-FadeI have to agree with lcuk.15:45
* RST38h cackles evilly as hordes of hackers go on to eviscerate poor iPhone users15:45
RichiHgood :)15:45
StskeepsRST38h: jailbreaking remotely? ;p15:45
RST38hyep15:45
lcukthe screen sensitivity is really good, perfect for stylus and extremely good for finger tough too15:45
lcuktouch15:46
lcukX-Fade, although that could be me being used to a beat up old model lol15:46
X-Fadelcuk: Well at least it is a lot better than previous models. (As far as I was able to test.)15:46
X-FadeRumour has it that sound quality should be a lot better too.15:47
Stskeepsspeakers can actually get better?15:47
Stskeepsi absolutely adore n800/n810 speakers15:47
X-FadeStskeeps: Listen to headphones.15:48
Stskeepsah15:48
X-FadeStskeeps: You can hear a hiss.15:48
Stskeepsyeah, i have noticed that15:48
X-FadeDue to certain components being too close ;)15:48
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* RST38h once again mentions how he likes n810 audio quality15:50
RST38hBetter than any other gadget I have15:50
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lcukX-Fade, the only sound we heard in copenhgen was the tap click i think15:51
lcukbut it sounded crisp and clear lol15:51
ShadowJKI don't need headphoens to hear the N800/N810 hiss..15:52
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Stskeepsi still think the camera reminded me a little too much of the dilbert strip15:52
ShadowJKbut I do need to switch off my desktop computers :-)15:52
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, high-end TI amp.15:52
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RST38hno such thing as a high end amp in a mobile device :)15:53
GeneralAntillesRST38h, meh.15:53
GeneralAntillesI'm not playing this silly game with you this morning.15:53
RST38hweeeeelll, if you deliver digital audio straight to the headphones and amp it there... :)15:53
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ShadowJKI've never encountered a portable device with clean-sounding audio output, and I'm not even an audiophile..15:53
RST38hShadow: 'cause no matter how you amplify it, it still has to pass near all those other components on its way to the jack15:54
StskeepsRST38h: after listening to too many idiots playing loud thug music on their wimpy cellphones, i can say that n8x0 is fantastic sound :P15:54
ShadowJKyeah, on my N800 there's a buzzing sound whenever touchscreen registers touch :)15:55
ShadowJKI guess the touchscreen datalines pass too close to audio lines15:55
RST38hSts: Hell, none of my laptops ever had this clean sound15:55
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RST38hShadow: Probably the CPU, delivering GDK message to apps :)15:55
ShadowJKUSB Audio dongle on same hub as usb: high pitched noise whenever bluetooth dongle transmitted :)15:55
RST38hShadow: touch screen stuff is static, it should not cause interference, but the CPU waking up and hitting on SDRAM will do the job15:56
ShadowJKI haven't heard any noise that I could've correlated with CPU load15:56
RST38hShadow: Just has to be active. Goddamn ASUS Digimatrix becomes very noisy any time it has to do any computing or data transfer in WinXP15:57
ShadowJKon my old P133 and PIII-733 I could hear almost all the system components.. CPU, AGP, Network, disk :)15:58
ShadowJKthey made different noises15:58
X-FadeI can head the capacitors make a high pitched noice when my laptop is suspended. Highly annoying.15:59
X-Fade*har15:59
X-Fade*hear.15:59
lcukon an old P133, can you hear gears clanking, cam belts whirring, horses neighing etc16:00
ShadowJKall my nokia chargers are making high pitched noises now.. even the car charger :P16:00
Razumihin:D16:00
RazumihinHorses were the baddest16:00
ShadowJKbut I was talking about stuff coming through the headphone ports :)16:00
lcukyou dont need headphones to hear the machinary inside an old machine lol16:01
ShadowJKwell it was brand new at some point16:01
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lcukShadowJK, yeah, horses are born16:04
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parazitusi doubt about horses... maybe squirrels?16:09
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lcukmummy horses give birth to squirrels?16:09
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parazitusno, i try to divine source of noise on old PCs.. :)16:12
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lcukRichiH, you work for freenode don't you?  is there a prefered donation amount you guys like?16:17
qwerty12_N810£1,000,00016:18
RichiHlcuk: not really. if you give nothing that's fine. if you do decide, it's totally up to you16:18
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RichiHand to be pedantic, we all volunteer16:18
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RichiHno one gets a single dime, if anything, it costs us :p16:18
RichiHphone, sms, letters, sometimes travel, etc16:19
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andrewfblackI saw a couple people from freenode at SELF this past weekend16:19
RichiHandrewfblack: jonathand was there16:20
RichiHwe will have shirts soon16:20
RichiHmatter of fact, they were shipped to him yesterday16:20
andrewfblackyeah I saw they had an order form for them there16:20
andrewfblackThere was a girl with him also16:20
RichiHhe is organising a geeknic soon16:21
RichiHthat would have been gary ;)16:21
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RichiHcan anyone tell me details about how to apply for the nokia beta testing program? i know there are some nokians around and i do have quite some experience in QA, both in open and closed source16:22
RichiHobviously, my main interest lies in the linux-based products16:22
RichiHandrewfblack: just checked back. she is not staff, but she hangs out on freenode16:23
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lcukRichiH, most of us here haven't even smelt the new devices yet!16:23
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RichiHlcuk: it's a long shot, but the worst that can happen is that nothing comes of it16:25
RichiHso i can't lose (only nokia can ;)16:25
andrewfblackRichiH: cool didn't know I think I saw her behind the table more then jonathand16:25
RichiHbut seriously, i know i am good at finding bugs and that i would benefit in the long term as the released software would be ever better but if nothing along these lines happens, i will not die, either16:26
lcukRichiH, theres a lot of software already out that will be on fremantle that needs bug testing - for all different areas16:27
lcuknokia have a group of apps  and people which are currently released the fremantle stars, those apps need help more than anything nokia has behind closed doors16:28
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lcukbecause those come from the community :)16:28
RichiHlcuk: i will have a n810 in two weeks and a n900 the second it's released so i will certainly test those, anyway16:29
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RichiH(and an openpandora as soon as _that_ is realeased which i plan to run Mer on)16:29
RichiHreleased, too16:29
RichiHwhat is the status wrt fremantle & n810, anyway?16:31
RichiHis the omap 2 powerful enough and do 128 MiB suffice?16:31
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lcuki certainly think so :)16:34
lcukbut i cant wait to expand into the omap3 home16:34
lcukheres what im making: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY   (well worth a full watch, and the followup) :)16:35
X-FadeThat lcuk fellow isn't so modest ;)16:36
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lcukX-Fade, of course not16:36
* lcuk is a blatant whore (and very very overworked!)16:36
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RichiHlcuk: looks nice16:51
RichiHi like the notepad16:52
RichiHlcuk: is that fremantle on the n810?16:52
RichiHplus your own stuff16:52
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RichiHdamn, that is shiny16:53
ShadowJKfrom the video title I woudl guess it's liqbase on n81016:53
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GAN800lbt, ping?16:57
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lcukRichiH, its sliq and shiny and starting to feel like i always imagined :)17:01
* lcuk has to go properly tho now17:01
lcukcya later17:01
RichiHlcuk: i will ask you for the repo in two weeks17:01
RichiHcya17:01
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RazumihinI hope they will keep the n900 price abt. the same as n97 at maximum.17:02
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RichiHRazumihin: i hope the same but fear something else17:05
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Razumihinlcuk: Btw liqbase looks really good.17:05
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GAN800Razumihin, I dunno how they can justify higher for this platform.17:06
RazumihinGAN800: I cannot think any way to justify 700 euros for the hardware anyway.,17:07
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RazumihinIt's still going to be a replacement for the communicator and e90 was something like 900 euros as new.17:08
GAN800I can see the hardware justifying it.17:09
GAN800But nothing else17:09
RazumihinBut yes... i think that even if it costed 1000 euros i would sadly pay that :)17:09
GAN800I don't see them pricing themselves out of the market that way anyway.17:09
RazumihinHope so.17:10
GAN800If they don't have a discount program. . . .17:10
GAN800I mean, you're competing with "$99" iPhones.17:10
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RazumihinYeah.17:11
fiferboyI really hope there is a discount program!17:11
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X-FadeGAN800: I'm sure that they can be sold with a subscription too, now that there is that sim slot ;)17:11
RazumihinDon't think so at least in finland.17:11
GAN800X-Fade, that scares the shit out of me, personally.17:11
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X-FadeGAN800: Why? Every Nokia phone that came with a subscription was also available separately?17:12
GAN800Especially if US carriers are involved.17:12
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fiferboyCanadian carriers are no bette17:12
GAN800Because it still has an effect on the software platform.17:12
RazumihinYeah... i hate those monopolies.17:12
fiferboy/s/bette/better17:12
X-FadeI don't get why people are so afraid of that :)17:12
GAN800Hardware setup, etc.17:12
RazumihinX-Fade: It's opensource device.17:13
GAN800You don't know US carriers, then.17:13
RazumihinIf you lock something up it's not.17:13
X-FadeRazumihin: Yeah, so? Modem is a blob?17:13
* RST38h yawns and suggests to drop the "we are competing against iPhones" line17:13
RazumihinYeah, i think that it is wrong ideologically.17:13
RST38hNot possible to compete against iphones. Need to find a different niche.17:13
mavhcthey're not afraid of linux phones now, android, pre, neo17:13
X-FadeThe 'tablet' just has data.17:14
RST38hYes, it will probably be a smaller niche, but a more viable one17:14
RazumihiniPhone is hype device, not really a good smartphone like other linux devices...17:14
RST38hA maemoPhone will make a very decent business phone, given right apps17:14
RST38hWill tear blackberry to threads17:14
RazumihinYou would need some serious marketing and something really different to stand out to compete iPhone in popularity17:14
mavhcquestion: the iphone accessory drm chip that apple force accessory people to buy, does that also stop the acessory working on an imaginary phone with a compatible connector?17:15
RST38hRazumihin: You can't compete with iPhone. Period.17:15
RST38hBut you CAN compete with HTC or Samsung feature phones or Blackberry17:15
RazumihinYeah. That is what i'm hoping for as i need a good business phone and as a developer like to have the possibility to develop to it myself.17:15
RazumihinRST38h: Yep.17:15
RazumihinRST38h: I see maemo as windows mobile killer.17:15
Razumihin(and hope so)17:16
RST38hMake every CA geek want a maemoPhone, and THAT will be good enough17:16
RST38hRazumihin: That is Android though:)17:16
RST38hSame hardware, better experience than winmo17:16
RazumihinRST38h: Android has the programmability issue.17:16
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RST38hRazumihin: Users do not give a damn17:16
RST38hYou can't sell a phone on programmability17:16
RazumihinTrue, but nerdy winmo users do.17:16
RST38hhaven't seen any17:17
Razumihin(as the program catalog develops to certain point)17:17
RazumihinI used htc's in the beginning of the century :)17:17
RichiHGAN800: look at the pandora, which has the same chipset, and costs 330 euro17:17
RST38hYou probably can sell on "Nice HTC hardware and no dreaded WinMo" line17:17
RichiHgranted, the pandora does not have GPS nor GSM and UMTS17:17
RichiHand no accelerometer17:17
RichiHand less nand17:18
StskeepsRichiH: comparing with vaporware isn't fair :P17:18
RST38hPandora does not exist yet.17:18
RichiHbut it does have four times the battery power17:18
RST38hWhen it is sold in a store, come back :)17:18
Razumihin:)17:18
StskeepsRST38h: and handed over, you mean17:18
RichiHword from the devs is that they will order the last moulds in two weeks17:18
RST38hRichiH: it can have 4 vibrators and a rocket engine, does not mean a thing17:18
ShadowJKconsidering nokia usually pisses off US carriers to the point where they don't carry most nokia devices anyway, I doubt nokia would pay attention to them with a maemophone either17:19
RichiHfinal boards are already in test production17:19
X-FadeRichiH: Don't forget that Maemo has some amazing power management.17:19
RazumihinShadowJK: Hope so.17:19
RST38hShadow: How do you piss a US carrier, anyway? =)17:19
StskeepsRST38h: bringing them swedish fish, probably17:19
RazumihinWhat was i just installing...17:19
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ShadowJKcarriers/operators17:19
ShadowJKin the past, music store, and internet capability has pissed them off17:20
RichiHX-Fade: well, angstroem on pandora does not (yet) have any power management at all and can run a full day under load ;)17:21
ShadowJKI don't know what their current list of bad things(TM) are :-)17:21
X-FadeRichiH: I don't believe that.17:21
X-FadeRichiH: Under full load that CPU uses more than 2W.17:21
StskeepsRichiH: does this count backlight on? :P17:22
ShadowJKiirc CPU full load backlight off is less than you'd think17:22
RichiHhttp://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=48259&st=0&p=733993&#entry73399317:22
ShadowJKWLAN full load and significant transfers to SD or NAND though... that eats power :)17:22
GAN800RichiH, it doesn't have half the hardware features.17:22
ShadowJK(on N8x0)17:23
RichiHGAN800: i would say more than half (depending on how you look at it) but i doubt the remaining stuff would justify a price gap of 570 euro. especially when you consider economy of scale. that being said, i will get a n900 anyway17:24
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RST38hShadow: Ah, treating them as stupid data pipes they are...17:24
RST38hShadow: Yes, this should piss 'em off all right17:24
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RazumihinThey are not only data carriers! They are lifestyle promoters or something else really idiotic sounding.17:25
ShadowJKand... service providers! Which really means they want everyone to use their expensive fenced-in gardens of "mobile web" and "mobile email"17:26
RazumihinLike AOL tried to be with internet.17:26
RazumihinYep.17:26
ShadowJKthere are a few operators who actually state their primary goal is to provide fat pipes because that really drives innovation and usability forward for users17:26
ShadowJK(but probably not in the US)17:26
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RazumihinEven in finland data prices have gone up.17:27
ShadowJKLuckily my contract was renewed :-)17:28
ShadowJK2 or 5 mbit (it's a bit unclear which) for 10E per month :D17:28
RazumihinMy contract has unlimited bandwidth 10e/month i tried to take another one for second phone and it would have costed 60e/month17:28
RST38hShadow: Russian ones have no choice17:28
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RST38hShadow: users do not give a shit about their "services", just want voice calls and data17:28
ShadowJKAt the time they said "unlimited", and at that time their network did 2mbit max, now they're up to 5 or 7 or something...17:28
RazumihinIntresting that speed prices have gone up from 200317:29
ShadowJKSaunalahti?17:29
GAN800RichiH, there's also the whole industrial design thing17:29
RazumihinShadowJK: Yes.17:29
GAN800of which the Pandora has none17:29
RST38hShadow: as soon as the price goes up, users jump to a different provider (there are no contracts)17:29
ShadowJKtheir megadata thing was a short-time special offer :)17:29
RazumihinThey cannot drop that contract :)17:29
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cosmohmm.. why is maemo mapper showing only black world?17:29
RazumihinYep17:29
GAN800Plus funding a ton of mobile Linux development.17:29
Stskeepscosmo: you didn't configure map repositories17:30
RazumihinAnd if you pay it they must renew it :)17:30
cosmoStskeeps: yes i did, d/l'd the repos and set the directory to mmc17:30
ShadowJKRST38h, yeah that would be an ideal situation.. 12 month contracts used to be illegal in .fi :-)17:30
ShadowJKbut no longer :-(17:30
cosmoneverending processing maps and black screen. internet works fine.17:31
RST38hshadow: Legal != compulsory though17:31
ShadowJKyeah17:31
RazumihinYeah. I hate those "package" contracts.17:31
RazumihinJust idiotic to pay for speaking and messaging that you don't use :)17:31
RazumihinHmh... maybe i just should go home and leave this computer to install.17:32
RichiHGAN800: as may be, still if the n900 had a price point of euro 900, it would be drastic17:33
RazumihinHard drive failed and it just takes abt. three weeks to install vista.17:33
GAN800Oh, I agree.17:33
GAN800But my point is that the hardware may somewhat justify it.17:33
RazumihinNot really :/17:33
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RazumihinWhat kind of hardware would have that kind of prices?17:34
RST38hShadow: You basically can sell any contract here, but if it is unfair and one side drops it, what do you do?17:34
ShadowJKeh?17:34
ShadowJKwhat do you mean by "drops it"?17:34
RST38hShadow: Let us say the user stops paying17:35
ShadowJKcollection agencies have means to extract payment :-)17:35
RST38hShadow: You try bringing him to the court, trying to get money17:35
RST38hShadow: The judge will ask whether you provided him with any services he has not paid for17:35
Stskeepsmm. you people don't happen to know and QR/Semacode libraries for video4linux/webcams?17:35
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RST38hShadow: If he hasn't used any of your services, there is no legal ground to claim money, period.17:36
MyrttiStskeeps: I don't know if zebra does QR/Semacode yet17:36
X-FadeStskeeps: The barcode project at garage?17:36
StskeepsX-Fade: maybe.. this would be non-n8x0 stuff though17:36
RST38hShadow: You can of course claim that he has broken a contract but this is not something qualifying as a federal offence, they will prbably send you both into arbitration17:37
X-FadeStskeeps: It uses v4l2 iirc?17:37
Stskeepshmm17:37
Stskeepswill look i guess17:37
RST38hShadow: Which will also exactly the same question: "Have you provided the guy with any services? - No. - get outta here."17:37
RST38hShadow: So, contracts are unpopular :)17:38
X-FadeStskeeps: #define VIDEO_SRC "v4l2src"17:38
GAN800Razumihin, basically the most advanced smartphone hardware on the market. ;)17:39
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RazumihinGAN800: Thats not because it's the most hitech its because they lag it intentionally.17:39
Razumihin(so the prices are not really so high as you would think)17:40
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Razumihin(for example there's no reason 5mpix sensors would cost dramatically more than 3mpix)17:40
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GAN800Razumihin, erm, TI only hit usable samples last winter.17:41
RazumihinGAN800: Yeah... the processor is really pretty high.17:41
Razumihin*hightech.17:41
X-FadeGAN800: We saw some blurry prototype shots at the summit ;) Made with the proto camera.17:41
GAN800Anyway, the WiFi/Bluetooth/FM stuff, the screen, the audio, etc are all pretty high-end.17:43
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lcukarent they just technically cherry picked from other nokia devices lol17:44
GAN800No17:44
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GAN800What other device uses OMAP3, 800x480 or 802.11n?17:45
X-Fadelcuk: Even N97 has no OMAP3.17:45
lcukthats a good point17:46
GAN800That was true two years ago, but it's looking like a proper flagship device now.17:46
lcuki know about the screen which is a maemoism, but i tohught the rest was just grabbed from a shopping list17:46
GAN800No17:46
* lcuk can and is wrong :)17:46
X-FadeWell, all BOMs are. But this is a high end one ;)17:46
GAN800;p17:46
RazumihinGAN800: 3.5" 800x480 lcd:s are common in embedded.17:46
RST38hNot so common17:47
RST38hJust starting to appear17:47
RazumihinNot in consumer products, but in company side.17:48
* Stskeeps begins compiling zbar for Mer17:51
florianyep.. zbar looks pretty interesting17:52
Stskeepsi will salivate if zbar works effectively on my n810 :P17:52
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GAN800Razumihin, either way, it's definitely not in any other Nokia products.17:53
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: IMHO, it'd be better on the N800 as you can actually turn the camera :P17:53
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: agreed17:54
Stskeepsis it the same camera in n800 as in n810 btw?17:54
RazumihinGAN800: True, yes it's true that the price is good when you compare to other nokia products.17:54
X-FadeStskeeps: Same reso, yes.17:54
Razumihin"camera"17:54
Razumihin;)17:54
X-FadeStskeeps: Meet Mr. Blurry cam ;)17:54
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man_in_pdais there a way to simulate a right-click on n810?17:57
VDVsxStskeeps, zbar works with a few changes in maemo, we are using it as base for the GSoC barcode project17:57
X-Fademan_in_pda: tap and hold.17:57
StskeepsVDVsx: does it work?17:57
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VDVsxStskeeps, only with images, the video don't work also in my desktop17:58
Stskeepsk17:58
VDVsxStskeeps, but I don't test it too much, the GSoC student, know more about this issue17:59
RazumihinOk, now i will go home. This will take forever...17:59
VDVsxStskeeps, but maemo-barcode works with video in my n81017:59
man_in_pdaX-Fade, only works if app is configured for it17:59
man_in_pdaand it looks like xchat isn't18:00
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ShadowJKxchat is18:04
ShadowJKatleast if you get it from extras18:04
man_in_pdahmm18:06
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man_in_pdawell, must be my unsteady hand18:11
man_in_pdaany idea how to make it show sync as numbers?18:11
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andre__bergie: Ignore my last two email to you. Seems like I should take a look myself before writing. Thanks :-P18:38
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lcukVDVsx, barcode works with video because its a tight C app, isnt the new barcode written in python? (or is there some underlying c lib)18:43
lcukfeck18:43
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GAN800bergie, werz mah screenshot?18:51
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Talus_Laptopgreetings19:02
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coldbootDoes anyone know a workaround to this Qt bug that only happens on Maemo? http://lists.trolltech.com/pipermail/qt-interest/2009-June/008576.html19:48
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fiferboycoldboot: I have never even noticed that before, and I work with QTableView on the device all the time19:51
fiferboyI guess it never bothered me, since it only happens the first time you click19:51
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coldbootfiferboy: It looks even worse when you have a lot of stuff on the screen. The more QAbstractItem children you have, the longer the flashing takes.19:52
coldbootfiferboy: It looks like a pretty serious cosmetic problem for a commercial application.19:53
coldbootPersonally I don't really care, but it's the sort of thing some people will care about.19:53
fiferboyYou should try asking on the Qt4-devel list at qt4.garage.maemo.org19:53
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coldbootThanks19:54
Stskeeps'lo jeremiah_19:55
fiferboyNP19:55
coldbootfiferboy: So there is a mailing list called qt4-devel at garage?19:55
fiferboycoldboot: https://garage.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/qt4-devel19:56
jeremiah_lo Stskeeps!19:56
fiferboyYou can subscribe there19:56
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coldbootfiferboy: Thanks20:00
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lbtGAN800: pong20:31
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Proteous-phonepong20:34
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GeneralAntilleslbt, think we could have per-grocery-store aisle layouts?20:34
GeneralAntillesPerhaps with categories for different foods so stuff automatically gets sorted into the correct aisle?20:35
lbtI think so20:35
lbtMy thinking is that we should have per-store ordering of aisles/categories20:35
timeless_mbplbt: hey, got any screen shots i can poke at?20:36
lcukbut even within the same storegroup they change20:36
timeless_mbpi filed a bunch of bugs for gPodder and am vaguely in the mood to give random feedback on other random apps :)20:36
lcuklbt, just get the damned camera working and have it layout stuff as it sees it ;)20:36
fiferboylbt: What do you use for data storage?  XML?20:36
RST38hand gps support20:36
lbttimeless_mbp:  http://shopper.garage.maemo.org/  http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/shopper20:36
lcukso it can use last weeks route to show you where you are coming from20:36
lcukno gps in shops20:36
RST38hwhy?20:36
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lcukindoors20:36
lbtMy thinking is that we should have per-store ordering of aisles/categories20:36
RST38hpity20:36
lcukshopper for markets :D20:37
lbthmm, echo20:37
lbtfiferboy: yes20:37
timeless_mbplbt: so... http://shopper.garage.maemo.org/Shopper-rot.png20:37
lbtxrandr rocks20:37
timeless_mbphave you considered making the buttons at the bottom twice as wide?20:37
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timeless_mbpotoh, iirc you have a real user who gives regular feedback20:37
lbtnope.... but happy to think about it20:37
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lbt(yes, my wife!)20:38
lbtuser #120:38
timeless_mbpyeah, those are great :)20:38
timeless_mbpsomeday... someday20:38
fiferboylbt: Does she file bugs?20:38
lbtfiferboy: oh yes20:38
lbtit doesn't bounce20:38
lcukheh lbt, just wait till denise starts fixing em as well20:38
lbtshe's not happy!20:38
lbtlcuk: soon...20:38
lcukthe end of lbt..20:38
timeless_mbplbt: offhand, that's the biggest one20:39
fiferboyIt bounces on my system...20:39
timeless_mbpthe other question i have is how does she use it20:39
timeless_mbpwith a stylus, pen, pick, finger, or other?20:39
thopiekar#mixxx20:39
lbtfinger (nail)20:39
timeless_mbpah yes, female20:39
lcukheh - i can see lbt walking with a clipboard monitoring progress20:39
lbtand we know there are some issues :)20:39
* thopiekar forgot -> /j20:39
lbtlcuk: .... I do... really20:39
lbtI watch how she uses it20:40
lbtwhich is why rotation works both ways20:40
lbtshe's a leftie20:40
GeneralAntilleslbt, a food database would also totally kick ass.20:40
timeless_mbpheh20:40
lcukgood good :) you are like microsoft clippy!20:40
timeless_mbplbt: does she ever try to give you the list and say "buy these"20:40
lbtGeneralAntilles: yes... it's kinda like that20:40
lbttimeless_mbp: yes... usually20:40
timeless_mbplbt: so....20:40
timeless_mbphttp://shopper.garage.maemo.org/screenshots.html20:40
timeless_mbpdoesn't have the dialogs for editing20:41
timeless_mbpwhich hurts me a bit20:41
lbttrue20:41
timeless_mbpwhat follows are a stream of ideas which may or may not be covered:20:41
timeless_mbp1. can you track purchases over time?20:41
lbtinstall, try, submit shots...20:41
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lbt1 not really. But when you add an item it's always available to pick thereafter...20:42
* timeless_mbp nods20:42
timeless_mbpthat's different20:42
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timeless_mbp2. can you have distinct list cases?20:42
timeless_mbpmy family has a special list we use once a year20:42
lbt2 yes20:42
lbtsave/load xml list20:42
timeless_mbpok, a couple of them (e.g. thanksgiving)20:42
lbt(s)20:42
lbtoh, yes... holiday presents etc20:43
lbt(plus if you make a note then you see what you bought last year!)20:43
* timeless_mbp nods20:43
timeless_mbp3. people related lists20:43
lcuk(X) socks20:43
lcuk(X) socks20:43
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lcuk(X) socks20:43
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lbtrofl20:43
timeless_mbplcuk: hey, the last places i went, i bought socks20:43
timeless_mbpIstanbul, Washington, and Mountain View20:44
lbt3. well, a list is items/categories .... so ....20:44
timeless_mbpso, if some people in your family or likely regular guest list have allergies/special requests/favorites20:44
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timeless_mbpbut those would only be important for special things20:44
suihkulokkimental note: buy socks to timeless_mbp as present20:44
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: i'd prefer an offer of a summer cottage visit20:45
timeless_mbplike this week? :)20:45
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lbttimeless_mbp: not sure about that so much... the typical usage is prepare list, go shopping.20:45
timeless_mbpis the prepare part done on the device?20:46
RST38htoo complicated =)20:46
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lbtI think that would be a rational 'contacts' extension20:46
lbtyes, prepare on device... often in kitchen/store20:46
* timeless_mbp nods20:46
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lbtie storeroom (UK speak)20:46
timeless_mbpoh. pantry?20:46
lbtyes20:46
timeless_mbpisn't that also a British word?20:46
lbtalso in bathroom/bedroom20:47
timeless_mbpok... so...20:47
lbtyes, thought pantry would be confusing20:47
timeless_mbpstore was worse :)20:47
timeless_mbppantry is a recognizable British word20:47
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timeless_mbp[grocery] store20:47
lbt(yes) so walk around house and the device offers a list of things in various categories ... so also a prompt20:47
timeless_mbp4. camera support20:48
timeless_mbpbeing able to take pictures of items20:48
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suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: meh, other plans for this weekend..20:48
lbt4. no.  sounds good (like barcodes) but sometimes tech slows you down/gets in the way20:48
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lbtit may make more sense if wife has PC on and can *see* photo20:49
timeless_mbplbt: keep in mind this isn't just maemo 420:49
lbt(this one dear?)20:49
lbt(no the yellow one)20:49
lbt(this one <snap>)20:49
timeless_mbpheh, i tried that20:49
lbt(yes)20:49
timeless_mbpbetween an n81 8gb and an e61i20:49
timeless_mbpusing video call20:49
timeless_mbpthe cameras at the time were not good enough to do it20:49
timeless_mbpcertainly not w/ video call20:50
timeless_mbpi suspect that a maemo 5 device, and using still shots instead would work20:50
lbtyes... I often just walk around with a bluetooth headset and she talks me through it20:50
* lbt nods20:50
timeless_mbpheh20:50
timeless_mbpanyway, i'm just adding to a wishlist20:50
* lbt is thinking of going for fremantle star too20:50
timeless_mbp*oww*20:50
lbt?20:50
* timeless_mbp bangs knee against table20:50
timeless_mbpthere's this stupid thing which lets you raise/lower the table20:51
lbtknee height?20:51
timeless_mbpplaced precisely where my knee likes to go when i get ...20:51
* timeless_mbp crosses legs as a nervous stretching thing20:51
timeless_mbpanyway...20:51
timeless_mbpi guess you've already thought about bar code scannning20:51
lbtyes... I'm dubious20:51
timeless_mbpi have no idea as to whether a maemo 5 device will be able to make that work20:51
timeless_mbppersonally i'd prefer general pictures over scanning20:52
lbtyes ... I can see piccies making sense20:52
* timeless_mbp returns to the app20:52
lbtscanning + barcodes are complex and need big DBs.....20:52
timeless_mbpi take it that you aren't worried about budgets20:52
lbtnot really20:53
timeless_mbpwell, the version of barcodes i'd do is simpler20:53
lcuklbt, barcode db is max 40mb20:53
timeless_mbpshe scans each thing she likes20:53
lcukand quick to lookup20:53
lcukits not that bad20:53
timeless_mbpat home20:53
lcukto turn a upc into identifiable product20:53
timeless_mbpand then sends you to the store20:53
lbttypically I have run out of it....20:53
timeless_mbpyou scan things in the right aisle until you get a match20:53
lbtheh... this is tech getting in the way :)20:53
timeless_mbpnot a great algorithm, but if the scanning manages to work20:54
lbtsoup - chicken20:54
timeless_mbpsee, my family is a lot pickier20:54
lbtI really can see photo's making sense20:54
lcukdiet, full, 300ml 600ml, packet, chunky smooth plain20:54
lcukwith veggies20:54
lcukwithout20:54
lbtalso  a selection of photos against an item20:54
lbtalso this is an aide to a human...20:55
lcukphotos are a great idea tbh :)20:55
lbtdid you get the soup you wanted... it's a mnemonic to a person20:55
lbtnot instructions to a CPU :)20:55
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lbtphotos and notes allow exactly that "diet, full, 300ml 600ml, packet, chunky smooth plain"20:56
lbtrather than 93723423... hmm, can't find that... wonder what it was supposed to be?20:56
lcukbut with the upc database it will say20:56
lcukheinz400mlchicsoup20:57
lcukjust like your receipt20:57
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lcuksimplest would be an addon later that pushes upc info into your existing fields20:57
lbtI think a big help would be a PC/web interface20:58
lbtso you can make lists more easily20:58
lbta user sent me an addon so you type:20:58
lbthttp://pastebin.com/m610bb29920:58
lbtand then import that as a list20:58
lcukreadable xml lol20:59
lcukhttp://www.upcdatabase.com/downloads/ :)20:59
timeless_mbpok... so, the next thing  is budgeting21:00
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timeless_mbpwe used to buy Coke bottles21:00
timeless_mbpbut we'd only buy them if their price was at/below a certain point21:00
timeless_mbpbeing able to say "buy, but only if it's on sale for less than x" (but it shouldn't use that many words)21:00
timeless_mbpthe past tense here has a couple of components21:01
timeless_mbpa. I live in Finland, my family is still stateside21:01
lbtyes, now this is an area I've considered too21:01
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timeless_mbpb. my parents switched to ginger ale21:01
lbtfrankly money was never a big deal21:01
lbthowever I now have no job.....21:01
lbtitches change!21:01
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lcukthat would slow you down, but its probably straight forward to just put a "make sure price under" column?21:01
timeless_mbpc. I don't go shopping here for anything beyond tropicana orange juice21:02
vhogemannHelp! Can't make my tablet update resolv.conf when I connect to a wifi network...21:02
lbtdata entry on the device sucks in a supermarket...21:02
timeless_mbpthe column would probably just be 'price'21:02
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timeless_mbpfor Coke, it was basically $121:02
vhogemannjust flashed RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin21:02
timeless_mbpif it was less than that, buy, otherwise, don't bother21:02
lcukindeed lbt, hence me leaving decision to human and just display a price if one is input21:03
vhogemann:-(21:03
timeless_mbpentering prices shouldn't be done w/ the standard keyboard21:03
timeless_mbpyou would make a full screen thing21:03
lbtI think having a price column makes sense - and yes, I agree timeless_mbp21:03
timeless_mbpyou need about 11 keys and a display field for the item and the value21:04
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timeless_mbp(you'd probably use approximately a phone style keylayout for lack of a better description)21:04
lbtGAN800: wanted 2 columns.... but that was hard (sad but true) and we have rotation....21:04
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timeless_mbpok, i think i've beaten the wishlist to death21:04
timeless_mbpit's past 9pm21:05
timeless_mbpand sp3000 was supposed to give up and consider food21:05
timeless_mbp(half an hour ago!)21:05
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lbtOK timeless_mbp... I'll look at them... but you have to install the 0.5.7 version21:05
lbtand see how it feels :)21:05
timeless_mbp someday21:06
timeless_mbpnot today :)21:06
coldbootWhat's the easiest way to install 'find' in Maemo?21:06
lbttomorrow is fine21:06
lbtcoldboot apt-get install findutils21:06
timeless_mbpright now i need to try to migrate my data from mer 0.13 to mer 0.1421:06
lbtheh... I have a backup utility on my task list21:06
coldbootlbt: What repository is it?21:07
lbtis it not in extras?21:07
* lbt uses Mer for real stuff now ;)21:07
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lbtapt-get install <universe>21:07
timeless_mbpa backup utility that isn't broken?21:07
timeless_mbpsounds interesting21:07
lcukdirect neural transfer21:08
lcuksubliminally gets you to enter details after a reflash21:08
lbtheh... we need some scoping21:08
lbtbut, as I say, we have ubuntu/debian to fall back on now...21:08
* timeless_mbp sighs21:09
* timeless_mbp kicks NetworkManager21:09
coldbootlbt: It's not in extras.21:09
timeless_mbpcan i use xrandr to set my screen res to 800x480?21:09
lbtsorry coldboot, not sure then :(21:09
timeless_mbpi'm @ 800x481 right now21:09
coldbootWhat repository is findutils in?21:09
lbtyou can use it to ask your xserver nicely....21:10
lbtit may ignore you21:10
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: i did it in vmware21:10
timeless_mbpcommandline for those of us not willing to spend a month poking? :)21:10
coldbootIt would be nice if there was some apt-cache-like app that searched all repositories intended to be public.21:10
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: copy your /home/timeless to the new installation?21:10
Stskeepswe are sane.21:10
lcukcoldboot, its called google :P21:10
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: xrandr -s 800x48021:10
timeless_mbpSize 800x480 not found in available modes21:11
timeless_mbp:(21:11
coldbootlcuk: Yeah thanks for that gem.21:11
* timeless_mbp will have to look at the vbox xml later21:11
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I get it in VMWare in Windows, nothing VMWare related installed inside the VM :\21:11
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: i installed vbox tools into mer21:12
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: /media/old/home/timeless = 1.7G21:13
coldbootlbt: I found it here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo/ossw/f/findutils/21:13
timeless_mbpi don't think that'll fit in your 2GB image21:13
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: point taken21:13
coldbootlbt: How does that translate into a repository link?21:13
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: want me to make a bigger one ideally?21:13
coldbootlbt: I tried adding "ossw" after "non-free free" in the sources.list, got a 404.21:13
timeless_mbpStskeeps: yes21:13
timeless_mbpbut i need to give up trying to build glibc21:13
* timeless_mbp hates glibc21:13
* lcuk agrees21:14
timeless_mbp1.4G build-tree/21:14
lbthttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/f/21:15
lbt:(21:15
lbtit's in the pool 'cos it's in fremantle21:15
coldbootWhy the hell was findutils not one of the first things put into Maemo?21:15
timeless_mbpcoldboot: it's big21:15
timeless_mbpand most people don't need it21:15
timeless_mbpif you're one of those strange linux people who need it, you'll know how to install it21:16
lbtl8r people... thanks for the Shopper comments... much appreciated.21:16
timeless_mbpand maemo started out w/ just busybox for speed/size reasons21:16
timeless_mbplbt: thanks for listening21:16
timeless_mbpkeep up the good work21:16
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coldbootIt's a pain in the ass when you're developing for it.21:16
timeless_mbpbut remember: user testing is more important than wishlist21:16
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timeless_mbpcoldboot: for or in?21:16
Stskeepscoldboot: sardine can syndrome21:17
Stskeepspart of mer's purpose is to get out of the sardine can syndrome21:17
Stskeeps:P21:17
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coldboottimeless_mbp: for and in21:17
timeless_mbpStskeeps: fwiw21:18
timeless_mbpfremantle r&d images failed today... they didn't fit21:18
Stskeepsfeatures features features21:18
* timeless_mbp thinks it's more like "debug symbols, debug symbols, debug symbols"21:18
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JamieBennettIs it bad etiquette to chase up C.V. applications if you haven't had a reply in a week? Not even a 'we have you C.V. and are considering it' or 'No go away' response. It's getting me paranoid thinking maybe my .pdf attachment didn't get through some spam filters/firewalls21:19
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lcukwhat happened to sending real cvs (unless requested specifically to do so)21:20
JamieBennettlcuk as in snail mail?21:20
lcukyeah21:20
RST38hJamie: Calling back in a week and asking about the status is ok21:20
JamieBennettlcuk snailmail is so 90's ;)21:21
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coldbootlcuk: You mean mailing a resume?21:21
lcuk:) you can still make a bigger impact if your cv is well presented and in physical form infront of them ;)21:21
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JamieBennettRST38h I was going to email (without attachments) following it up politely. Would a call be better? I'm useless at this, never been 'unemployed' always gone from job to job.21:22
RST38hJamie: Call is better.21:22
coldbootlcuk: If someone mailed me their resume I would be annoyed, because I know they're trying to get my attention by being inefficient. And I wouldn't have it for reference later, in my email account.21:22
RST38hJamie: They have no way to ignore your call.21:22
RST38hEmail can be safely ignored21:22
coldbootJamieBennett: I'd say a call after an email is best.21:22
RST38hAlso, a phone call shows that you are actually interested in getting a job21:23
coldbootJamieBennett: Laziness is a factor that comes into play with email and snail mail, but receiving a call is hard to ignore.21:23
RST38hAnd not just throwing your CVs around21:23
philip_is the source code for brainstorm available in svn?21:23
lcuki agree with that rst :)21:23
* timeless_mbp sighs21:23
JamieBennettRST38h: agreed but it could lead to some awquard calls. I think email then a couple of days to respond then call?21:23
timeless_mbpok, so, glibc-2.9 is 156MB, that's after deleting the build tree21:24
timeless_mbpthe rest of my home directory is 37MB21:24
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timeless_mbp(plus glibc targz 22MB and a glibc diff 2.6MB)21:24
RST38hJamie: If you are too shy to talk to people, you will not find a job.21:24
RST38hJamie: "Not interested? Your loss." is the basic attitude you should assume about these calls21:25
JamieBennettRST38h Far from shy just trying to play the etiquette card. Not sure on the proceedure.21:25
JamieBennettRST38h: agreed21:25
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JaffaJamieBennett: The problem with a followup email *then* a call is that you're drawing to attention them ignoring you. However, calling after a single email can be done under a legitimate pretence of concern21:32
johnsqHi21:32
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JamieBennettJaffa: Sounds right. A 'look I'm serious about working for you' attitude would probably be best.21:33
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JamieBennettrather than a 'I'm waiting for an email back' attitude.21:34
RST38hActually, the only way to interest an employer in hiring you is to show that you have got something they need21:34
RST38hShowing you are serious is necessary but not sufficient21:35
Proteous-phonemad skillz21:35
RST38hnot necessarily, usually some weird piece of knowledge or experience21:35
Proteous-phonehow to milk a cat21:35
Proteous-phoneand make cheese21:35
RST38has in "had experience sterilizing male chimpanzees"21:35
Proteous-phoneheh21:36
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fiferboyStrangely the thing most people at work remember about my resume is that I used to give historic music, musket, and artilery demonstrations...21:36
JamieBennettNot trying to 'beat my own drum' but my C.V. reads quite well I think. Hopefully it will stand out *hoping*21:36
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RST38hfiferboy: were there casualties?21:37
Proteous-phoneheh21:37
fiferboyNo, I successfully completed five years with no more than a couple of minor burns21:37
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JamieBennettwww.linuxuk.org/Work/cv.pdf is anyone wants to give pointers21:38
lcukwow, i didnt know historical music was so dangerous21:38
fiferboyI almost took a fife to the eye one time21:38
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fiferboyAnd if you think remounting a skin drum head to a side-slung, rope-tensioned tenor snare drum is a walk in the park, you have another thing coming21:39
RST38hJamie: is "orientated" a legal English word?21:39
thopiekarhey could someone make me please a portaudio19 package for my mixxx port [tabletDJ] ?21:39
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* xnt14[n810] wants to throw his nit out the window because of application manager21:42
JamieBennetthttp://www.thefreedictionary.com/orientated21:42
qwerty12_N810keep the nit; use apt-get21:42
RST38hah, shit, it is actually a subject of controversy21:42
RST38hJamie: yea, just googled21:42
JamieBennettRST38h: A couple of spellings it seems.21:43
RST38horientated appears to be more UK specific21:44
JamieBennettAh, I didn't know that.21:44
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thopiekar:|21:52
thopiekardoes anyone of you know why this fails http://pastebin.com/d4ef351cb ?21:53
RST38hAnyone knows anything about mDDR vs SDRAM memory?21:53
RST38hLow level stuff? As in settings that make the best use of mDDR?21:53
zakkmthopiekar: no qt4 installed? scorn wasnt compiled with qt4 ?21:57
thopiekarit is strange I excecuted scons in a fresh source-folder of mixxx and it works..21:58
thopiekargive me some mins21:58
zakkmthat might not of wanted qt4 though.21:58
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zakkmcompiled with qt4 support*21:59
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solarionhow does one swap caps lock and ctrl for an attached keyboardA22:16
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johnsqsolarion: x11 xmodmap22:18
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solarionjohnsq: what package is that in?22:19
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johnsqsolarion: I don't know.22:20
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tank-manxmodmap is part of X1122:21
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solariontank-man: I can't seem to find it22:22
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tank-manseems like you have to dl it22:23
solarionfrom what repo?22:23
tank-manI dont know.22:23
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solarion:/22:24
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thopiekarzakkm: doesn't it just means that scons is searching for the qt python module?22:28
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johnsqsolarion: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?s=98e730d4a9e4531b2b253f4b21b4d027&t=2184822:29
zakkmtheres no qt4-___ installed, or scorn wanst compiled with qt4_--- support22:29
thopiekarhmm ok .. libqt4-dev is installed22:30
qwerty12_N810scons is python right? the log said something about importing qt? do you have pyqt  installed?22:31
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thopiekarhave installed python2.5-qt4-dev-tools now..22:33
thopiekaraahh22:33
thopiekarsb1 overwrites python with its own!22:34
thopiekar:|22:34
zakkmthe horror!22:34
* thopiekar hates scratchbox!22:34
thopiekaris there a way to compile with scons in a chroot?22:35
qwerty12_N810just run it with 'python2.5'22:35
thopiekaraah k22:35
thopiekar"#!/usr/bin/env python2.5" ?22:35
zakkmIf i were to compile something in mer and create a deb, would that work in maemo ?22:35
qwerty12_N810thopiekar: should do it22:36
thopiekarzakkm: depending on the dependencies of the package..22:36
thopiekar.:P22:36
zakkmno dependencies22:36
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zakkmwell nothing maemo doesnt have22:36
RST38hUse sb2.22:36
RST38hIt sucks less.22:37
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thopiekar?! Error: QT path does not exist or QT4 is not installed.22:37
zakkmsonata in mer is so cool :D22:37
thopiekaris sb2 available for x64, too?22:37
RST38hHmmm... STMP37xx decided to look for network for some reason22:38
solarionjohnsq: I can't find the repo information on that page, tho22:38
zakkmwait whats scorn ?22:38
* thopiekar tries to compile his package in osbs22:38
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thopiekarzakkm: I you mean me.. its sb1's scons... maemo's repos don't have their own package..22:39
johnsqsolarion: I hoped they tell it, sorry22:39
qwerty12_N810RST38h: it doesn't like you 'kidnapping' it and wants to call home to the manufacturer22:39
solarionjohnsq: thanks for the link,  tho.  I'm only one step away from success.  :)22:39
solarionbt keyboard is pretty nice; just need to make emacs suck less through it22:40
solarionif I had local emacs, bzr, and g++/gcc, I'd be a pretty happy boy22:40
johnsqsolarion: that why i install gentoo, i need vim git and gcc :)22:41
zakkmmer could do that too couldnt it?22:41
solarionjohnsq: you installed gentoo on your n810?22:41
solarionzakkm: what is mer?22:41
RST38hqwerty: It's manufacturer hates Linux22:42
zakkmohhh that is sick!!! :D22:42
johnsqsolarion: yes22:42
solarionit looks like the maemo extras might have a (broken) x11 setup22:42
zakkmvlc on mer! :D22:42
RST38hqwerty: No reason it should call for him22:42
zakkmadds system tray icon and everything22:42
qwerty12_N810hehe22:44
solarionjohnsq: you're a braver person than I. ;)22:44
zakkmsolarion: theres a whole guide and everything.22:45
zakkmand repositories and such22:45
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zakkmsolarion: http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x022:45
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solarionzakkm: thanks22:47
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solarionwhelp, back at it22:48
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xnt14~ssh b-man.xceleo.org22:53
xnt14xD22:53
zakkmxnt14: omg22:54
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xnt14zakkm, just wanted to see if infobot would react :P22:56
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zakkmany chance you would know how to make mer menu items?22:58
zakkmwhere the .desktops are perhaps22:58
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zakkmemergency calls? http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3662/3617807997_70a219c34d.jpg?v=023:00
lopzhola23:00
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Corsaczakkm: where's that shot from?23:09
zakkmits frm fremantle, qole discovered it23:09
Corsacso that definitely means GSM support :)23:09
Stskeepsjust means fremantle can support phones23:09
Stskeepsbig woop23:09
zakkmlol23:10
zakkmStskeeps: telling me mer willhave gsm support too? :P23:10
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JamieBennettzakkn: thats been know for some time now.23:12
lbtStskeeps: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3745  : Multiboot support23:12
lbtdo we have that kernel?23:13
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Stskeepsno, we don't have kexec23:14
GAN800Stskeeps, big woop yourself. :P23:14
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lbtGAN800: nah, it's just Skype emergency calls...23:15
GAN800Bleh, Skype better not be integrated.23:15
Stskeeps"help! i'm stuck inside a 770!"23:16
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* GAN800 WSoDs Stskeeps.23:18
zakkmskype is amazing :D23:19
b-man16rofl23:19
lbtskype me23:20
timeless_mbpRST38h: "orientated" means the person writing the thing isn't a native speaker23:20
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RST38htimeless: apparently not, google for it.23:22
timeless_mbpRST38h: Orientated is currently preferred use in general British use. Oriented is prevalent in technical use, and in the US.23:22
timeless_mbphttp://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/oriented23:22
* RST38h is still impressed how stmp3738 manages to rotate one background, show the second one on top, show some sprites on top of that and STILL plays the music23:23
RST38hLittle chip that could, indeed...23:24
johnsqc64 could it also23:24
RST38hRespectable 46fps23:24
RST38hc64 could not, sorry.23:24
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