| johnsq | apt-cache search glibc | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| RST38h | Considering that c++ is nothing more than an extension to c that adds member functions to structures (see cfront and friends) | 00:00 |
| Luke-Jr | kkrusty: to prove GNU's C++ compiler is the real problem, not te language | 00:00 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: i.e. the engineering could've been simpler if trying to maintain C source compatibility weasn't necessary. | 00:00 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Not really :) | 00:00 |
| Luke-Jr | RST38h: there's also function mangling | 00:00 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: C compatibility is the best thing about C++. Pretty much any C++ specific feature added on top of that is a mess | 00:00 |
| Luke-Jr | RST38h: and the stdlib | 00:00 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: You can pretty much choose any feature | 00:00 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: exceptions, templates, RTTI - all fucked up | 00:01 |
| RST38h | STL hehe | 00:01 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Why do you need C compatibility? Use a C compiler if you want to compile C | 00:01 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: A lot of people use C++ as a tidier version of C that allows for better code management | 00:01 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: So, in other words, you think C++ is overengineered and overcomplicated. Which has resulted in it being shit. | 00:01 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: C++ is perfect for that | 00:01 |
| * kkrusty wonders if Luke-Jr could try realview's toolkit or some other | 00:01 | |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Only if you start using C++ specific features extensively, you mess things up (usually) | 00:02 |
| derf | Luke-Jr: The C++ language is undecidable. There's no reason to expect a C++ compiler to _ever_ be as fast as C. | 00:02 |
| johnsq | in the language shootout is the c++ version the fastest | 00:02 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: BTW, Java ended up the same way, started "light", ended up as a tumor. | 00:03 |
| jaska | it was malignant from the start :) | 00:03 |
| derf | Java didn't get nearly as bad as C++. | 00:03 |
| trofi | c++ in slightly stricter than C on type conversion. -Wc++-compat helps a lot in some cases | 00:03 |
| RST38h | derf: Oh it did really, just look at the runtime size | 00:03 |
| Luke-Jr | derf: C++ is mostly just C with additional syntax | 00:04 |
| Luke-Jr | derf: there is nothing inherently slower about it | 00:04 |
| derf | RST38h: Runtime library is a completely separate issue. | 00:04 |
| RST38h | derf: Luke is right | 00:04 |
| jaska | and java is.. ickier, memory consumption and lack of stuff like operator overloading, unsigneds | 00:04 |
| kkrusty | Luke-Jr templates | 00:04 |
| derf | Luke-Jr: That "additional syntax" is part of what makes it undecidable. | 00:04 |
| jaska | and the generics implementation is a kludge | 00:04 |
| Luke-Jr | kkrusty: templates are just syntax | 00:04 |
| RST38h | derf: What people perceive as C++ "slowness" really comes from using specific C++ features | 00:04 |
| derf | There's no reason for the compiled _code_ to be slower. | 00:04 |
| derf | I'm talking about the compiler. | 00:04 |
| RST38h | derf: As long as you avoid these features you are ok | 00:04 |
| derf | Luke-Jr made comments about both. | 00:04 |
| Luke-Jr | derf: ok, templates excuse the compiler slowness a bit maybe | 00:05 |
| RST38h | derf: Compiler will be slower, especially if using templates | 00:05 |
| derf | RST38h: In practice, nobody avoids those features. | 00:05 |
| RST38h | derf: Not really, lots of people do | 00:05 |
| kkrusty | Luke-Jr theres a lot going on with templates in the backend | 00:05 |
| RST38h | derf: People in our group mostly do | 00:05 |
| derf | RST38h: You are by far the exception, not the rule. | 00:05 |
| kkrusty | mangeling, demangeling, removing duplicates etc | 00:05 |
| RST38h | derf: Not really | 00:05 |
| RST38h | derf: Just realistic, and there are more realists than you think | 00:06 |
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| RST38h | derf: Of course, if you get folks fresh out of the same UMD, and let them code without additional tutoring, you end up with a mess | 00:06 |
| derf | Luke-Jr: There's also the fact that all the "object oriented" crap means you need 50,000 inline functions for good performance, and the fact that these are all in the header files means anytime you change the API even slightly, you have to recompile everything. | 00:06 |
| parigaudi | c++ with qt is quite clean | 00:06 |
| RST38h | derf: Or a bunch of Indians imported | 00:06 |
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| Luke-Jr | derf: it doesn't mean that at all | 00:07 |
| derf | RST38h: What do you think most of industry is? | 00:07 |
| Luke-Jr | derf: and if you do the same things with C, you need to recompile everything too | 00:07 |
| RST38h | derf: I do not really care. The shittier most of industry is, the more contract work for me :) | 00:07 |
| Luke-Jr | though I will admit, the "new" operator could be replaced with a method | 00:07 |
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| derf | There are a _lot_ more incompetent programmers than competent ones. | 00:07 |
| trofi | in any language | 00:07 |
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| derf | And I agree with you, except for the part where I have to maintain these people's code. | 00:08 |
| RST38h | derf: You usually get to rewrite it piece by little piece | 00:08 |
| RST38h | derf: If you feel sadistic, may insist on them fixing it, although it is kinda pointless | 00:08 |
| derf | trofi: Yes, but C++ _encourages_ poor programming practices. The obvious way to do things is usually horrible. | 00:08 |
| trofi | derf: i disagree :] | 00:08 |
| RST38h | derf: Fortunately, very few cases of that where I work | 00:09 |
| RST38h | derf <--- essentialy correct | 00:09 |
| RST38h | How many students had to drop classes after getting lost in overloaded operators...ah... | 00:09 |
| * RST38h sheds a crocodile tear | 00:09 | |
| RST38h | anyways, sleep time | 00:10 |
| derf | My TA once threatened to fail a project of mine because he didn't think I had done it. | 00:10 |
| trofi | every popular language has proglems with herds of incompetent people. no matter how strict it is | 00:10 |
| RST38h | derf: I never threatened, just failed. | 00:10 |
| jophish | johnsq, I fixed the problem by manually making symlinks | 00:10 |
| derf | We were supposed to impelement a disk cache in some data structure... I overloaded the member reference operators, etc., so none of the actual data structure code changed. | 00:10 |
| trofi | they Will do write if bool_var.toString().length() < 5 | 00:10 |
| jophish | probably a bad idea though | 00:10 |
| crashanddie | trofi, C doesn't have any problems | 00:10 |
| trofi | crashanddie: oh really? | 00:11 |
| RST38h | derf: as long as it worked, wouldn't be a problem, at least with me as a ta | 00:11 |
| crashanddie | trofi, yeah :P | 00:11 |
| trofi | so vhy do people use valgrind? | 00:11 |
| derf | I told him what an idiot he was, and he came back later insisting I had a memory leak. | 00:11 |
| RST38h | derf: never a good idea to call tas idiots | 00:11 |
| derf | So I showed it running on several billion records in a few hundred K of RAM, and said, "Nuh uh." | 00:11 |
| crashanddie | trofi, because they can't keep track of their memory usage? :P | 00:11 |
| derf | RST38h: Well, I didn't use those exact words, of course. | 00:11 |
| RST38h | derf: Firstly, they usually aren't. Secondly, they have got a few dozen of you, and it may really get to them at the end of office hours | 00:11 |
| derf | I was polite. I'm not stupid. | 00:12 |
| * RST38h once told a student that the problem was in his DNA. Student left enlightened. | 00:12 | |
| trofi | :] | 00:12 |
| derf | But this only goes to prove my point... code like that is unreadable and unmaintainable. Just by looking at the code you have no idea what is actually going on. | 00:12 |
| derf | In order to figure it out you have to read some other code somewhere else that you may have no idea is there. | 00:13 |
| RST38h | derf: That is why overloading stuff is rarely a good idea | 00:13 |
| RST38h | derf: And we haven't even started on STL! =) | 00:13 |
| derf | I don't think anyone could successfully argue STL is a good idea. | 00:13 |
| RST38h | derf: Hell, we haven't even started on that "cute" iostreams library that looks soooo nice in examples | 00:13 |
| RST38h | All those << and >>> | 00:14 |
| RST38h | Until you have to print formatted output, to a string :) | 00:14 |
| trofi | and .imbue(locale) | 00:14 |
| trofi | RST38h: doesn't boost have printf alike writer? | 00:15 |
| RST38h | derf: The traditional argument for STL is "Somebody already implemented those data structrues so I do not have to" | 00:15 |
| derf | Anyway, personally I've found the minor limitations of using C are greatly worth the assurance that no one will use C++ features in my projects. | 00:15 |
| RST38h | trofi: One more mention of Boost and I throw up. | 00:15 |
| RST38h | trofi: There is standard stdio though, and it works every time for every use case, unlike the artifical C++ stuff | 00:16 |
| trofi | yep | 00:16 |
| derf | The only sad thing about stdio is that there's no way to write new FILE * backends. | 00:16 |
| johnsq | about compilers some thinking about tcc for armv6? | 00:16 |
| trofi | but it's unchecked | 00:16 |
| derf | But that's a library issue. | 00:16 |
| trofi | i have to use GCC' format attrs to ensure formats are san | 00:16 |
| RST38h | derf: implement your own STDIO functions and wrap. | 00:17 |
| RST38h | No big deal, done in ZLib. | 00:17 |
| RST38h | Definitely SLEEP now. | 00:17 |
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| mavhc | we should all write in objective C | 00:27 |
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| nomis | mavhc: thats very subjective. | 00:29 |
| mavhc | subjective C: int like, whatever; | 00:31 |
| nomis | heh :) | 00:32 |
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| johnsq | we should speak about languages, the problem is that there are too less developers. | 00:34 |
| kkrusty | I would be happy to be a developer for maemo if someone promised to hound me if I didnt get work done | 00:35 |
| kkrusty | *maemo based projects | 00:35 |
| mavhc | get work done | 00:37 |
| kkrusty | can you write angry emails and tell me what to work on? | 00:39 |
| kkrusty | well if you say "get work done" I'll just start working harder at my real job :D. | 00:40 |
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| mavhc | still need a good podcast downloader/player/deleter | 00:42 |
| Stskeeps | gpodder? | 00:43 |
| kkrusty | canola? | 00:43 |
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| kkrusty | I always have to convert videos with tablet-encode so canola and gpodder are useless to me | 00:44 |
| mavhc | for video videocenter's ok | 00:45 |
| mavhc | I did use canola, but it won't run now, something corrupt, and it's bloated | 00:45 |
| mavhc | does gpodder have a player too? | 00:45 |
| kkrusty | I saw the first season of prison break on the tablet a while ago without tablet-encode. The fences really slowed down the video | 00:46 |
| mavhc | canola, but audio only, much less ram usage, and better keyboard control for skip fordward/back 5/30 seconds | 00:46 |
| kkrusty | mavhc: same here. | 00:47 |
| mavhc | and don't include the pause/resume bug | 00:47 |
| mavhc | atm I use videocenter or browser to dl, media player to play, with the recent added playlist, and media player to delete, video center's set to play with mplayer, so audio has no UI | 00:50 |
| kkrusty | I download on my PC with miro, convert with tablet-encode and play with media player or mplayer | 00:53 |
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| gentooer | I no longer need my n800 (getting an android phone soon!) and want to sell it on ebay, but I have installed a modified bootloader and a SD install. what's the easiest way to reset everything to factory settings? | 01:20 |
| johnsq | gentooer: yes, install the flash file from nokia | 01:23 |
| gentooer | johnsq, ok and that will get rid of the bootloader as well? | 01:23 |
| johnsq | yes, when set flashing initfs. | 01:24 |
| gentooer | ok thanks | 01:24 |
| johnsq | I wouldn't sell it, there still many uses for it and you will not get much for it. | 01:26 |
| gentooer | i really like it, but I only use it for wifi internet when I travel, music, and sshing into my desktop. all of which can be done with android | 01:27 |
| gentooer | i've got 4gb and 8gb SD, two cases, charger, stylus.. i'd be happy with $100 for it | 01:28 |
| johnsq | good luck and high price. | 01:29 |
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| gentooer | really, that's high? first one that came up on ebay was already at $105 | 01:30 |
| johnsq | no i mean, i wish you getting enough money. | 01:32 |
| gentooer | oh heh, thanks :) | 01:32 |
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| Luke-Jr | what does ログイン名(大文字を使用してはいけません)* mean? | 02:58 |
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| Luke-Jr | gentooer: I'd flash Mer and advertise it as a bonus ;) | 02:59 |
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| Noma | Luke-Jr: google translated: Login name (do not use capital letters) * :p | 03:00 |
| Luke-Jr | ah, good | 03:01 |
| Luke-Jr | Google has an English copy | 03:01 |
| Luke-Jr | http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:LFH21dmJmfkJ:https://garage.maemo.org/account/register.php+https://garage.maemo.org/account/register.php&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk | 03:01 |
| pnk | hi guys, i have question to you, my file chooser's opening time is very long, how can i speed it up? (running on maemo sdk/gtk/hildon) | 03:02 |
| Luke-Jr | OH YAY | 03:03 |
| Luke-Jr | registering lets me change language to English | 03:03 |
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| pnk | guys somebody met this problem? | 03:04 |
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| bef0rd | Hola | 04:16 |
| s0m0ne0utsdeTher | Hossa too | 04:23 |
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| Macer | well | 05:02 |
| Macer | after using nexenta and opensolaris.. nexenta kind of sucks :) | 05:02 |
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| Macer | opensolaris makes a much cleaner server | 05:03 |
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| b-man16 | *cough* | 05:27 |
| *** b-man16 is now known as FireFox` | 05:29 | |
| * FireFox` overloads his tablet while using gcc | 05:35 | |
| * kkrusty is done with a python script that does bt queries and then speaks its findings with flite | 05:36 | |
| kkrusty | s/bt/bluetooth/ | 05:36 |
| * FireFox` is building a LFS system on his tablet :) | 05:36 | |
| kkrusty | this should be fun; going to work and hearing all the names of bluetooth devices | 05:38 |
| kkrusty | that I encounter on the way | 05:38 |
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| kkrusty | its also going to tell me when I last encountered a device, kind of a way to tell when I last met someone | 05:39 |
| Luke-Jr | kkrusty: how about the device's security level, type, etc? | 05:42 |
| Luke-Jr | "this guy you met exactly a week ago, and just met again, has an insecure phone" | 05:42 |
| kkrusty | Luke-Jr well that isnt done yet | 05:42 |
| kkrusty | Luke-Jr will depend on there being the desired functionality through python | 05:43 |
| Luke-Jr | :þ | 05:43 |
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| kkrusty | Luke-Jr consider it on my todo list though | 05:48 |
| * kkrusty heads off to bed | 05:49 | |
| Luke-Jr | kkrusty: waiiit | 05:49 |
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| Luke-Jr | aww | 05:49 |
| b-man16 | hm | 05:49 |
| Luke-Jr | b-man16: he has an earlier curfew than you! | 05:50 |
| b-man16 | XD | 05:50 |
| Luke-Jr | b-man16: how goes the Gentoo? | 05:51 |
| b-man16 | something came up this morning and i wasn't able to re install it :( | 05:51 |
| Luke-Jr | why re-install?! | 05:51 |
| b-man16 | a couple of days ago i removed it for webos hacking | 05:52 |
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| Luke-Jr | x.x | 05:53 |
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| Luke-Jr | b-man16: need more SD cards? | 05:53 |
| b-man16 | yeah xD | 05:53 |
| Luke-Jr | I have more than I know what to do with XD | 05:53 |
| * b-man16 only has a 4gb and 2gb card XD | 05:54 | |
| Luke-Jr | would be nice if I had a second slot on my N810 for removable | 05:54 |
| * Luke-Jr has 8 GB, 4 GB, and 2 GB, he thinks | 05:54 | |
| b-man16 | heh | 05:54 |
| * b-man16 is thinking about buying an 8gb | 05:55 | |
| b-man16 | i need it XD | 05:55 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | is there some howto that lists the steps to crosscompile with scratchbox from 686-debian-lenny to maemo4.1? | 05:56 |
| b-man16 | luke-jr: btw, did you see my new site? http://b-man.xceleo.org/ | 05:57 |
| Luke-Jr | b-man.xceleo.org | Welcome | 05:57 |
| Luke-Jr | This slideshow requires Adobe Flash Player 9.0 (or higher). JavaScript must be enabled. | 05:57 |
| Luke-Jr | Enter | 05:57 |
| b-man16 | hm | 05:57 |
| b-man16 | you don't have flash? xD | 05:57 |
| Luke-Jr | of course not | 05:58 |
| Luke-Jr | I hate that crap | 05:58 |
| Luke-Jr | plus, it's propreitary | 05:58 |
| Luke-Jr | I'm perfectly happy with STANDARDS-COMPLIANT web | 05:58 |
| Luke-Jr | which apparently doesn't include your site | 05:58 |
| b-man16 | heh | 05:58 |
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| b-man16 | i'm working on making it use jquery instead of flash ;) | 05:59 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | nice... dancing desktops... exactly the cpu-hog you want to forget somewhere in the background | 05:59 |
| b-man16 | lol | 05:59 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | the pages behind that have pretty good performance though | 06:00 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | they print "null" in a couple of ms | 06:00 |
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| b-man16 | it's a work in progress ;) | 06:02 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | so you decided to make all the useless fancy stuff first and see if some content turns up lateron? | 06:03 |
| Luke-Jr | lol | 06:03 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | sorry if that sounded a bit unfriendly, but I got Views on this | 06:04 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | of course, with all the blogs and youtube videos around the word "content" gets a new meaning also | 06:05 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | mind to put "Last updated Feb 9 1856" on the bottom of the pages | 06:07 |
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| * Fox jumps on #anime | 06:21 | |
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| * CutMeOwnThroat sends 10 dogs after Fox | 06:23 | |
| Fox | lol | 06:23 |
| * Fox runs into a hole | 06:23 | |
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| * CutMeOwnThroat watches as the dogs dig Fox out and tear him to pieces | 06:25 | |
| CutMeOwnThroat | they call it a sport, btw. | 06:26 |
| * Fox figures out another route away from danger | 06:26 | |
| CutMeOwnThroat | you're already in pieces! | 06:26 |
| * Fox is agenst sports that include harming animals | 06:28 | |
| * CutMeOwnThroat 's against animals that include harming sports | 06:29 | |
| CutMeOwnThroat | actually I couldn't care less about sports | 06:29 |
| Fox | i just dont like the idea of killing animals as a sport | 06:30 |
| Macer | are there any folding@home irc #s? | 06:30 |
| Luke-Jr | every time I see a bunny | 06:30 |
| Luke-Jr | I think about cooking it up for supper | 06:30 |
| Fox | :P | 06:30 |
| Luke-Jr | just ask my wife | 06:30 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | she's a bunny? | 06:31 |
| Fox | rofl | 06:31 |
| Luke-Jr | no -.- | 06:31 |
| Luke-Jr | I comment on the idea sometimes | 06:32 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | isn't that cruel if she's a bunny? | 06:33 |
| Fox | lol | 06:33 |
| * Luke-Jr glares at Fox, aka b-man | 06:35 | |
| Fox | dont call me an idiot then :p | 06:35 |
| Luke-Jr | Fox: don't use flash then | 06:35 |
| Luke-Jr | Fox: what are you? | 06:38 |
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| RST38h | wazd: time to go is NOW. | 07:10 |
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| * GAN800 sighs at pig-headed silliness. | 08:13 | |
| GAN800 | I can see this FBReader insanity is going to be a difficult and time wasting fight. | 08:14 |
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| * GAN800 doesn't get why slightly easing the support for users who may number in the tens at the clear expense of the rest of your thousands of users is so important. | 08:15 | |
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| wazd_n800 | morning maemo) | 08:48 |
| rkirti | wazd_n800: morning | 08:50 |
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| labaudio | !ny clue about rgb njoy format table??? | 09:12 |
| Macer | there is no plot to alice in wonderland | 09:17 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN800: worst part is that the scenario might be needed - people do not always have internet connections avail at all for tablets, but they do have usb storage access | 09:25 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:27 |
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| lcuk | mornin jaffa, chan \o | 11:28 |
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| pnk | hi guys, i have problem with gtk and textview, i'm trying to display utf-8, but gets error :/ (my code&errors pastebin.com/d9b47d1f) Could anybody help me, please? | 12:55 |
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| lopz | hi | 15:42 |
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| bobpaul | when the new browser first came out you could switch backends. mozilla is pretty heavy and really bogs down on some sites. Can one still change backends? is there a webkit backend? | 16:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | google webkit-eal | 16:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | or if you hate default browser entirely: google tear | 16:11 |
| bobpaul | thanks. eal sounds familiar. it's been a while ;) | 16:12 |
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| n6pfk | I have several full screen videos which were playing nicely on the N810 using mplayer. Now the show as less than full screen with distorted colors. Is there a way to restore the play back? | 16:25 |
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| n6pfk | Ok I changed the -vo to x11 and it now plays nice. | 16:38 |
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| Raho | Hello! I'm looking for a description on how to install the os2007 "hacker edition" on the 770, using a WindowsXP computer. Does someone have a link to a tutorial or a flashing software? | 16:47 |
| Mikho | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 16:48 |
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| jophish | booting from a flash card, can I use ext2/3 instead of fat32? | 17:20 |
| jophish | for the internal memory card | 17:20 |
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| labaudio | !ny clue about rgb njoy format table??? | 17:40 |
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| GAN800 | Stskeeps, weird thing, though, is that FBReader seems to be the only one that does. | 17:41 |
| GAN800 | Supporting the offline use-case is particularly silly in Fremantle. | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: admittedly - but i agree that the user/ requirement for locally installed debs is insane | 17:42 |
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| Stskeeps | i'd like to see the reasoning for that one | 17:43 |
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| GAN800 | Protecting the user | 17:52 |
| GAN800 | They can't uninstall them later. | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | ah. | 17:57 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: ping | 18:15 |
| Jaffa | GAN800: ping | 18:15 |
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| GAN800 | pong? | 18:19 |
| Jaffa | see pm :) | 18:20 |
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| jophish | is there any way to flash the rootfs from a fiasco image to the internal sd card | 18:25 |
| jophish | I've tried playing around with the options | 18:25 |
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| ShadowJK | jophish, I imagine it wouldn't be easy | 18:32 |
| jophish | ah ok | 18:32 |
| ShadowJK | well, flashing it could be trivial, but reading it isn't :) | 18:32 |
| jophish | ah, no simple way | 18:33 |
| jophish | I may as well flash the flash | 18:33 |
| jophish | and copy that over | 18:33 |
| jophish | with the script here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card#Clone_to_the_card | 18:33 |
| ShadowJK | the internal flash is jffs2, which isn't designed for mmc/sd type storage | 18:33 |
| jophish | sure | 18:33 |
| ShadowJK | The image on the internal flash is jffs2, I mean | 18:34 |
| jophish | yes, that makes sense | 18:34 |
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| jophish | Just wanting a clean install on the internal sd | 18:34 |
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| jophish | but then what do I do with the internal flash | 18:34 |
| jophish | going to be wasted space I guess | 18:34 |
| johnsq | Hi | 18:34 |
| jophish | hi | 18:35 |
| ShadowJK | well it's just 256M of wasted space.. ;) | 18:35 |
| jophish | I wonder if I could install mer there | 18:36 |
| jophish | or another os | 18:36 |
| jophish | they have a flashable image | 18:36 |
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| johnsq | buy a 16gb card than you didn't need the 256mb | 18:37 |
| jophish | sure, I don't need it anyway | 18:38 |
| jophish | just being a pedant | 18:38 |
| jophish | so, clean install of diablo | 18:39 |
| jophish | shift that to the internal mmc | 18:39 |
| jophish | (which is one big ext2 partition) | 18:39 |
| jophish | then install mer on the flash | 18:39 |
| jophish | *big ext2 partition, except for a 128mb swap | 18:40 |
| jophish | nothing's wrong with that? | 18:40 |
| johnsq | why not ext3? | 18:40 |
| jophish | yes, I meant that | 18:41 |
| jophish | thanks | 18:41 |
| jophish | would it be difficult to share the home partitions between them | 18:41 |
| jophish | on the internal ssd | 18:42 |
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| johnsq | I would only share the data directory. | 18:42 |
| jophish | what do you mean by that | 18:43 |
| jophish | symbolic links in each OS's home to the same places? | 18:44 |
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| johnsq | in the home are also the . files, which I wouldn't share just documents. | 18:44 |
| jophish | alright | 18:44 |
| jophish | so for the mer home, all the documents and whatnot, symlink to the the maemo's home's folders | 18:45 |
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| johnsq | yeah | 18:45 |
| jophish | that does seem like a sensible thing to do | 18:45 |
| jophish | thanks for youe help | 18:45 |
| jophish | your* | 18:45 |
| jophish | I wonder if there is anything else I can share between the two | 18:46 |
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| jophish | e2fsprogs is not in extras, should I correct the wiki page here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card#Install_the_necessary_tools | 19:16 |
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| jophish | in what package is sfdisk included? | 19:27 |
| jophish | not in e2fsprogs | 19:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | it comes with the table | 19:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | t | 19:27 |
| jophish | hmm | 19:28 |
| jophish | I don't seem to have it | 19:28 |
| jophish | clean diable flash | 19:28 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | and you're root? | 19:28 |
| jophish | ah that was it | 19:28 |
| jophish | only shows up as root | 19:29 |
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| jophish | thanks | 19:29 |
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| jophish | where could I find mke3fs | 19:35 |
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| slonopotamus | mkfs -t ext3 | 19:43 |
| johnsq | mkext2 -j | 19:43 |
| keesj | Jaffa: Pang! | 19:43 |
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| jophish | I'm afraid I don't have either of those commands | 19:44 |
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| johnsq | jophish: sorry mke2fs is it | 19:44 |
| jophish | with journalling I presume | 19:45 |
| johnsq | yes with -j you get than the ext3, I have used -I 128 to make inodes smaller and use less space | 19:45 |
| jophish | uppercase I? | 19:46 |
| johnsq | yes | 19:46 |
| jophish | listed on die.net as a lowercase | 19:47 |
| johnsq | seems that the maemo version didn't have it | 19:47 |
| jophish | ah | 19:48 |
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| slonopotamus | -t ext3 is igeologically more correct :P | 19:49 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: my kernel with make n800_defconfig, didn't compile, the correct is make nokia_2420_defconfig | 19:50 |
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| jophish | thanks | 19:52 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, i recommend layman -S, there were problems again with cx3110x, hope they are all resolved now | 19:54 |
| johnsq | I currently compile the X part, so I can't test. but it is in the queue | 19:55 |
| slonopotamus | k. X should be easy | 19:55 |
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| * slonopotamus still has weird things with keypad actually | 19:55 | |
| johnsq | I will see, I have expierience with the linux input layer. | 19:57 |
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| slonopotamus | good | 19:57 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, what xorg version btw? | 19:58 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6 | 19:59 |
| Jaffa | keesj: it was about the summit stuff, but I've made my idea public(ish) now :) | 20:01 |
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| jophish | -t ext3 didn't work | 20:01 |
| jophish | so I used 'j | 20:01 |
| johnsq | check if you have enough files, before you fill the flash. | 20:02 |
| jophish | what do you mean? | 20:04 |
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| johnsq | jophish: the the number of inodes is big enough. | 20:05 |
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| jophish | too late, already formatted it | 20:06 |
| jophish | using -I 128 | 20:07 |
| johnsq | Is didn't change the number of inodes, only the size. | 20:07 |
| jophish | that's what I though | 20:07 |
| jophish | thought | 20:07 |
| jophish | I susnt change -i | 20:07 |
| jophish | what could the problem's be with using the default? | 20:08 |
| jophish | didn't* | 20:08 |
| johnsq | you get out of space on the flash | 20:08 |
| johnsq | happend me compiling gcc after many hours | 20:09 |
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| johnsq | tune2fs -l /dev/mmcblk... <- to check | 20:10 |
| jophish | 245269 inodes | 20:11 |
| jophish | that's lots of files | 20:11 |
| johnsq | yea, I had only 90k | 20:12 |
| jophish | what did you do | 20:12 |
| jophish | copy and reformat I guess | 20:12 |
| johnsq | yes. backup on pc, reformat now with 1million and back | 20:13 |
| jophish | is there any way to change the default mount options, specifically to add noatime | 20:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | in latest diablo, noatime is default | 20:14 |
| johnsq | i don't know but you can change them with tune2fs, but if mount from maemo supports it? | 20:14 |
| jophish | ah great | 20:14 |
| johnsq | why is sys-fs/sshfs-fuse masked on arm gentoo? | 20:17 |
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| jophish | this script: http://www.nmacleod.com/nokia/bin/nupgrade.sh | 20:23 |
| jophish | changing the partition to p1 should make it consider the first partition instead of the second | 20:23 |
| jophish | it says in the blurb that only the second partition is considered, this is not a technical reason? | 20:24 |
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| radic | will it work to dump /dev/mtdblock4 to a file on a SD-Card? | 21:02 |
| johnsq | why shouldn't it work? | 21:02 |
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| radic | hmm | 21:03 |
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| slonopotamus | please open http://gitorious.org/mer in microb and any other browser. do you see same thing? | 21:11 |
| jophish | what am I supposed to be seeing? | 21:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | no. does the page have an rss feed? | 21:12 |
| johnsq | yes, i see the rss logo with firefox | 21:13 |
| jophish | me too | 21:14 |
| jophish | I see the feed in mocrob | 21:14 |
| jophish | microb* | 21:14 |
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| slonopotamus | i wonder whos bug it is | 21:14 |
| slonopotamus | s/whos/whose/ | 21:14 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: i wonder whose bug it is | 21:15 |
| lbt | what's the prob slonopotamus? (no microb to hand) | 21:16 |
| slonopotamus | lbt, microb shows activity log on white bg and nothing else | 21:16 |
| lbt | ah | 21:16 |
| slonopotamus | can make a shot, if you want | 21:17 |
| lbt | not for me right now.. :) food in a sec | 21:17 |
| slonopotamus | looks like gitorious gives rss feed instead of page contents to microb | 21:19 |
| jophish | wonder why? | 21:19 |
| jophish | must be a deliberate feature | 21:19 |
| slonopotamus | maybe they just don't like microb :) | 21:20 |
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| jophish | "heheh this will surely confuse them!" | 21:21 |
| slonopotamus | maybe something wrong with microb Accept-Encoding feature | 21:21 |
| slonopotamus | rss has same url as page itself? (no ff here) | 21:22 |
| slonopotamus | that's just a wild guess | 21:22 |
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| jophish | How is the virtual memory organised in maemo | 21:27 |
| jophish | because I think that I have a ghost virtual memory file | 21:28 |
| slonopotamus | wtf is 'ghost virtual memory file'? | 21:28 |
| jophish | does maemo create a hidden file for virtual memory? | 21:29 |
| jophish | because I think I have two on me memory card | 21:29 |
| jophish | because I'm missing about 128mb space | 21:29 |
| jophish | probably exactly | 21:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | /media/mmc2/.swap | 21:30 |
| johnsq | swapfile | 21:30 |
| jophish | so there can't be more than one? | 21:31 |
| wazd | heya maemo | 21:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | hullo wazd | 21:33 |
| jophish | howdy | 21:33 |
| wazd | just got back from nokia mobile camp | 21:33 |
| wazd | have some really interesting shocking info bout maemo but don't know if I'm allowed to tell it :D | 21:33 |
| Corsac | (does “tumbler” rings a bell around?) | 21:34 |
| slonopotamus | wazd, maemo is deprecated? :) | 21:34 |
| wazd | guess how many maemo devices will come up in 2010? (instead of rx-51 and rx-71 in 2009) | 21:34 |
| slonopotamus | 0 | 21:34 |
| wazd | instead = along | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: does mer devices count? ;p | 21:35 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: fremantle only :D | 21:35 |
| Corsac | wazd: 42? | 21:35 |
| jophish | 44? 12.6? | 21:35 |
| Corsac | wazd: Pi ? | 21:35 |
| wazd | you will be really surprised :) | 21:36 |
| jophish | oh, be rational Corsac! | 21:36 |
| Corsac | :)) | 21:36 |
| wazd | 14! | 21:36 |
| jophish | i? | 21:36 |
| Corsac | e? | 21:36 |
| johnsq | I need only one. | 21:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | 14? | 21:36 |
| jophish | 14? | 21:36 |
| wazd | well, that was my reaction :) | 21:36 |
| jophish | wow | 21:36 |
| jophish | all nokia or what? | 21:36 |
| Corsac | how many not from nokia? | 21:36 |
| wazd | I was like "eeer, fourteen?@) | 21:36 |
| wazd | Corsac: dunno bout this | 21:37 |
| johnsq | has the maemo on screen keyboard cursor keys? if not who has designed it? | 21:38 |
| wazd | rx-71 exists and it's cool :) | 21:38 |
| Corsac | do you have an ETA for leaks? | 21:38 |
| Corsac | :> | 21:38 |
| johnsq | engadget.com has e72 | 21:38 |
| wazd | I haven't signed any NDA so I don't think that I'll be punnished for this | 21:38 |
| Corsac | maemo based?? | 21:38 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: did they make you write on a big piece of paper? | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | if so, did you look under it? :> | 21:39 |
| wazd | no, it was just an ordinary discussion with nokia related person :) | 21:39 |
| wazd | but not nokia employee | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | russian "ordinary" = "plenty of vodka included"? ;) | 21:40 |
| johnsq | lol | 21:40 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: nah, there were no alcohol at all :( | 21:40 |
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| jophish | 14, that's quite a lot | 21:41 |
| Corsac | hmhm, e72 looks nice | 21:41 |
| Corsac | but I'm not sure it'll match against the n900 | 21:42 |
| Corsac | ¬¬ | 21:42 |
| wazd | as i was told rx-71 is a slider phone :) | 21:42 |
| Corsac | well, if they manage to correctly handle calendar, contacts sync etc. | 21:42 |
| wazd | haven't seen it for myself anyway | 21:42 |
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| wazd | Corsac: full pim | 21:42 |
| Corsac | for fremantle> | 21:42 |
| Corsac | ? | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but that one is known | 21:42 |
| wazd | Corsac: yep | 21:42 |
| Corsac | \o/ | 21:43 |
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| jophish | what's 12mb+2mb+156mb, maemo seems to think it's 343mb | 21:48 |
| wazd | what else can I tell you without being killed :) | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i can tell by your joy that i should buy one anyway :P | 21:49 |
| jophish | have you any pictures? | 21:49 |
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| wazd | jophish: are you crazy? :) | 21:49 |
| jophish | used space on a card | 21:49 |
| ShadowJK | the internal flash is compressed | 21:50 |
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| jophish | this is the internal sd card | 21:51 |
| jophish | says in use 343MB | 21:51 |
| jophish | however all it has on it, is a clone of the internal flash | 21:51 |
| jophish | after a clean flash | 21:52 |
| qwerty12_N810 | yes, and like ShadowJK said, the internal flash is compressed. your sd card is not | 21:52 |
| jophish | oh I see | 21:52 |
| jophish | sorry | 21:52 |
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| kkrusty | hmmm I got 173 new bluetooth lookup results in 3 hours. | 22:06 |
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| kkrusty | and Im sick of hearing "xxxx first found now" | 22:07 |
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| jophish | how does maemo mount the external sd card? | 22:11 |
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| jophish | because I moved maemo to the internal sd card, and it has trouble finding the card | 22:12 |
| jophish | I can see it all in xterm, after manually mounting it | 22:12 |
| jophish | but it doesn't appear in the file manager | 22:12 |
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| slonopotamus | maemo needs first partition to be fat32 | 22:13 |
| slonopotamus | s/32// | 22:13 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: maemo needs first partition to be fat | 22:13 |
| jophish | hmm, that'd odd | 22:13 |
| jophish | because when I boot into maemo (exactly the same) on the internal flash, it detects the card | 22:13 |
| jophish | at the moment it's ext3 | 22:13 |
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| johnsq | jophish: mine shows both card, i made only 1 ext3 partion on each | 22:18 |
| jophish | that's the same setup as me | 22:18 |
| jophish | I see the internal card, with one ext3 partition | 22:18 |
| jophish | but no external card | 22:18 |
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| jophish | oh rats, now I can't even see the internal card, despite booting off it | 22:21 |
| jophish | but I can see the external one | 22:21 |
| jophish | what a conundrum! | 22:21 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 22:21 |
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| jophish | taking out the external card causes me to reboot | 22:26 |
| jophish | sigh | 22:26 |
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| jophish | and when the external card isn't in, I don't see the internal card | 22:29 |
| jophish | but plugging it in while maemo is running allows me to see it | 22:30 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | N810? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2747 | 22:31 |
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| jophish | that's exactly the one | 22:32 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: can you upgrade git on badger? | 22:38 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: hmm, tricksy. It's debian stable so... can you check if it's in the backports? | 22:39 |
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| lbt | oh, I thought it was 1.5.x in stable.... | 22:39 |
| lbt | is it oldstable? | 22:40 |
| lbt | http://packages.debian.org/lenny/git-core ? | 22:41 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, yeah - oldstable | 22:42 |
| Jaffa | 1.5 in etch-backports | 22:43 |
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| lbt | you may be interested in http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build/UsingGitorious#Moving_a_Package_to_Gitorious | 22:44 |
| Jaffa | lbt: upgrading git | 22:46 |
| lbt | great - ta :) | 22:46 |
| Jaffa | andrew@badger:~ $ git --version | 22:48 |
| Jaffa | git version 1.5.6.5 | 22:48 |
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| lbt | ta | 22:49 |
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| jophish | rats, seems like I cane ave rotation and a mmc card fix | 22:57 |
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| jophish | oh well, never used rotation much anyway | 22:57 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | compile your own kernel :) | 22:58 |
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| jophish | this is another one of those slippery slopes | 23:00 |
| jophish | when I start to compile my own, it will break other things | 23:00 |
| locutus | win 37 | 23:00 |
| jophish | compiling a kernel for the NDS was a nightmare | 23:01 |
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| jophish | how can I get a new kernel onto maemo which is on the internal sd card | 23:04 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 23:09 |
| jophish | hi | 23:10 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | jophish: unzip/untar file containing zImage and as root, run fiasco-flasher -f -k <path to zImage>. The kernel is on a separate partition in the flashed that is used by whatever system you're booting into be it flash, mmc etc | 23:12 |
| jophish | I see | 23:12 |
| jophish | thanks very much | 23:12 |
| johnsq | qwerty12_N800: but no separate kernel for different boots. | 23:13 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | johnsq: indeed | 23:13 |
| jophish | presumably, two maemo's would use the same kernel, but what about mer? | 23:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | mer uses whatever kernel happens to be flashed to the tablet | 23:15 |
| jophish | ok | 23:15 |
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| johnsq | somebody working on new bootloader (xloader iirc) | 23:22 |
| johnsq | +? | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | johnsq: if you bust NOLO, X-loader you have bricked your device quite hard | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | so no, we're just happy with x-loader | 23:23 |
| johnsq | sure this a problem, but it is nokia fault, that it can only boot one kernel image. | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | .. how is this a fault | 23:24 |
| jophish | is there any way to change where maemo puts the virtual memory file? | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | afaik i think it can boot from sd too but that's another topic | 23:25 |
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