IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-05-13

VDVsxkeesj, something like this: http://www.valeriovalerio.org/images/maemo_comments.png00:01
VDVsxI'm on FF 300:01
X-FadeVDVsx: Is it still broken?00:01
X-FadeVDVsx: I was working on it ;)00:01
GAN800lol00:01
GAN800X-Fade put in some venetian blinds. Like 'em?00:02
X-FadeYeah, only the unfolding mechanism didn't work right ;)00:02
X-FadeNo but seriously, there was a missing clear: both ;)00:03
VDVsxX-Fade, well, is the first time I saw this issue, yesterday everything looked fine to me00:03
X-FadeVDVsx: Shift reload and it should look better now ..00:03
GAN800X-Fade, what do you think about blocking out an hour or two for one more web design meeting just to mop up the last few niggling issues and sync up with Talk?00:03
VDVsxX-Fade, fixed :)00:04
X-FadeGAN800: Somewhere next week then. I first need to have some serious bugs fixed.00:04
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GAN800X-Fade, whenever's good for you since you'll be doing most of the work. ;)00:05
X-FadeWell, I'll gladly hand over the CSS work to somebody else..00:06
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X-FadeAnyway, time to call it a day.00:06
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crashanddie_X-Fade, slaap ze00:08
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CutMeOwnThroatwindows invented the home server, eh?01:40
CutMeOwnThroatamazing01:40
andrewfblackCutMeOwnThroat: nope windows didn't invent the home server, but its a nice packaged up was of installing stuff, I looked at Amahi but wasn't sure if there was something better guess I'll just go about installing everything my self01:41
CutMeOwnThroatI wouldn't use something that is based on debian unstable for something serverish that runs on older hardware, though01:42
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andrewfblackwhat would you recommend CutMeOwnThroat?  Using an almost brand new computer for my server01:43
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CutMeOwnThroatI just skipped over http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_server which also notes that it's usually older HW01:43
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CutMeOwnThroatdunno, I use debian anyway - but for a server which probably doesn't need the newest packages of everything I'd think other people also prefer stable01:44
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CutMeOwnThroatfor a desktop I see the point01:45
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CutMeOwnThroat... although I'm usually using backports for the perhaps 5 packages I care to have in an up-to-date version01:46
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lardmanhttp://www.coranac.com/tonc/text/asm.htm seems like a good overview02:03
lardmanof ARM ASM that is02:03
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lcuklardman, you are evil and a temptress02:06
lardmanwell it does look pretty good02:07
lardman:)02:07
lcukindeed it does02:08
* lcuk has always had a soft spot for sane looking asm02:08
lcuksane == !x86 ;)02:08
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lardmanhmm, not sure the words sane and asm should ever appear in the same sentence :)02:13
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lcukyeah lardman, they are lego blocks :)02:14
* lcuk loves to build02:14
derfI don't need an overview, I need nitty-gritty.02:14
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lcuk:( derf, whats up that you need asm so badly?02:14
lardmanwell it gives enough info about what you're going to see so that you can look elsewhere02:15
derflcuk: Theora.02:15
lardmanotherwise it's a bit overwhelming02:15
lcuknoble cause derf :) hope you win02:15
lardmanhmm, well in that case you need the ARM manual for the chip with the timings for the operations, etc02:15
GuySoftis it only here or is google giving 500 errors?02:16
lardmanworks for me (.co.uk tho)02:16
lcukhttp://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/google.com02:16
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lcukGuySoft, google mail was a bit sluggish earlier02:17
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GuySofti get 502 Bad Gateway02:18
GuySoftnginx/0.6.3502:18
GuySoftstrange. gmail.com works. google.com does not02:18
GuySoftlooks like an error in our ISP or something02:19
GuySoftwhats nginx?02:19
lardmanderf: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0375a/Babcaiah.html02:19
lardmanderf: integer only code, or vfp, or the simd extensions (or the whole lot)?02:19
* GuySoft clusties it and not googles..02:19
xnt14Guysoft: nginx is a web server like apache02:19
derfSIMD, primarily.02:19
derfNo floating point.02:20
GuySoftcarnt be google runes on that..02:20
lardmanhmm, aren't the simd instructions for fp only...?02:21
lcuksimd are only for non-thumb compilation i believe02:21
lardmanyeah, well that's expected02:22
derflardman: That was not my understanding, but I know very little about it.02:22
lcukdoes gcc compile to thumb or non thumb on diablo by default?02:22
lcuksimd is integer isnt it02:22
lcukupto 128bit02:22
lardmanderf: what the thumb bit or the simd bit?02:22
derfThe SIMD bit.02:23
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lardmanno idea, I can't seem to find it in the manual now02:23
lardmanlots of nice saturated add/etc instructions in the normal set though02:23
GeneralAntilles#beagle has some NEON people.02:23
lardmanderf: cycle timings and interlock behaviour will be of interest eventually02:25
derflardman: Yes.02:25
derfFor Intel I've got big tables with timings for every processor, which are exceedingly useful.02:26
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lardmanah ok, SIMD have an S on the front, e.g. SADD02:27
lardman16 or 8 bit data looks like02:27
lardmanhttp://www.dspdesignline.com/howto/197005500;jsessionid=TZ3EK3Q5X0HYYQSNDLRCKH0CJUNN2JVN?pgno=202:27
derfHmm, I'm going to need 32 in a few places.02:28
lardmanNEON has the large size SIMD instructions02:28
derfWhat hardware actually supports NEON?02:29
lardmanthe Cortex02:29
lardmanOMAP302:29
lardman(e.g.)02:29
derfWell, video was never going to work properly with N8x0's LCD controller anyway.02:29
lardman:)02:29
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derfI mean, I'm sure 2-way parallelism is nice and all, but...02:31
lardmanwell better than nothing02:31
derfAnyway, gotta go.02:32
lardmanlikewise, getting late02:32
lardmancu tomorrow chaps02:32
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sarujihello all i am here to find out how to get mer on my n81002:56
sarujiany help or direction would be greatly appreciated02:56
saruji#join ubuntu02:57
torkianosaruji, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#N8x0_Install02:59
torkianosaruji, and #mer channel ;)03:00
sarujithank you03:00
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GAN800Nice, Jussi supporting pb's insanity blog post. . . .04:04
luke-jr_?04:05
luke-jr_?04:05
GAN800tablethacker.com Post 1 Comment 404:05
luke-jr_bleh04:06
luke-jr_link??04:06
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GAN800http://tablethacker.com/wp/?p=366&lang=en-us#comments last comment, not that exciting though.04:09
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CutMeOwnThroatinsanity?04:58
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CutMeOwnThroatseems pretty normal to me04:58
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AndrewfblackHello05:11
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luke-jr_errr06:45
luke-jr_wtf? :/06:45
luke-jr_my N810 just shutdown (normally) all of a sudden06:45
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luke-jr_and won't turn on06:45
luke-jr_oh, the plug came out...06:46
luke-jr_but sparked when I plugged in back in :/06:46
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ShadowJKluke: sparked between n810 and charger tip or transformer and mains outlet?07:45
ShadowJKthe latter isn't extremely uncommon07:46
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amoultDoes anyone know how to create <app>.desktop  file for own application, so it would show up application menus?08:28
amoultI've created a little hello world application and deb packakge as per instructions here: http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node14.html. Everetyhing else is clear, but whats the contents of app.desktop file and is there some tool to generate it?08:30
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kfxamoult: afaik that standard is here: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/ar01s04.html08:33
RST38hamoult: there is a tutorial08:33
kfxsorry amoult I gave you the wrong link08:34
kfxhttp://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/08:34
kfx^^ that's the .desktop specification08:34
RST38hhttp://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node7.html08:35
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amoultOk thanks :)08:35
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thuxmorning08:47
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Meiz_n810morning08:57
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Stskeepsmorning timeless_mbp10:11
timeless_mbpum, 12:12 am, so i guess10:12
timeless_mbpbut i think it's night time :)10:12
Stskeepshehe10:12
StskeepsUGT ;)10:12
Stskeepshowever it disturbs people when you use ugt in real life..10:13
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timeless_mbpindeed10:14
timeless_mbpi think that /ctcp timeless_mbp time probably works10:15
* timeless_mbp grumbles10:15
Stskeepshehe10:15
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles // Stskeeps : did someone tell penguinbait that he miss-wrote <maemo.org> ?10:15
* timeless_mbp grumbles10:16
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i personally ignore penguinbait, but that's just me :P10:16
timeless_mbpand someone needs to teach him how to use punctuation10:16
timeless_mbphe uses <'>s randomly (where they don't belong...) and doesn't use <,>'s (in places where they're necessary)10:16
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slonopotamus-Stskeeps- VERSION irssi v0.8.10 - running on SunOS i86pc o_O10:44
Stskeepsyeah.. Nexenta10:45
Stskeepsi run my irssi on my file server so10:46
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slonopotamusshould newborn open-wlan-cal read data from /dev/mtd1 or separate reading+storing in a file from reading from file/sending to device?10:47
Stskeepsi'd say read from mtd110:48
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Stskeepsandre__: http://xkcd.com/583/ :>11:46
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andre__Stskeeps, uahh....!!!11:50
aquatix:)11:51
Stskeepstaking bug tracking too far :>11:51
andre__have to talk to my boss first before i'd do that. people around told me it's expensive and a long-term investment around 20years11:51
Stskeepshehe11:51
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RST38hWhile cleaning the fridge, the combination of chemical solvents with neatly labeled cups of rotting yoghurt and pork-roast parfaits created a cloud of toxic fumes that prompted a 911 call and the dispatch of a hazmat team.12:07
RST38h-28 people12:07
lcuki gather thats a real one and not one of your tales from the crypt things12:07
RST38hlcuk: It ends with a 911 call, so it could not come from the SCP site =)12:09
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lcukis that scp site an open wiki12:11
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lcukahhh yes its on wikidot12:13
RST38hlcuk: It is a wiki but they seem to grant merit-based modification rights12:18
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floriangood morning12:19
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lcukmornin danielwilms \o12:56
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danielwilmshey lcuk :)12:56
lcukdanielwilms, you should checkout the council uniforms design competition thread no talk :D its lookin cool so far!12:58
lcukon talk ^12:59
slonopotamusanyone wants to join dsme rewrite project? :P i almost got wlan-cal13:01
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* florian likes the idea but lacks time13:01
Stskeepsslonopotamus: DSME is already open source13:02
Stskeepsbut feel free to improve on the open one13:02
slonopotamusshow me the source :)13:03
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Stskeepssure, se13:03
Stskeepsc13:03
Stskeepshttps://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=dsm13:04
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slonopotamusokay. if this is dsme, where's wlan-cal server side?13:18
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* andre__ bangs head against wall13:19
slonopotamuswhere is code accessing /dev/mtd1?13:19
slonopotamusi dunnow what's this, but it is definitely not [all] sources of thing that listens on /tmp/dsmesock :)13:30
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Only client side, I think.13:30
slonopotamusX-Fade, then it's useless and my project still has reason to exist :)13:31
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: there's a plugin for CAL access which is not OSS :P13:33
slonopotamusCAL - ?13:33
StskeepsCAL is the area in flash where partition table, some config settings, wifi calibration data, etci s13:33
slonopotamus/dev/mtd1 you wanted to say? :)13:34
Stskeepsthat's the area in flash :P13:34
slonopotamusthat's the most interesting part of whole dsme.13:35
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slonopotamusis there anything useful in opened parts? wd kicker?13:36
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slonopotamusthermal management... have you ever heard of tablet that turned off because it was too hot?13:37
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Try it out? Put it in the oven and _slowly_ turn up the heat?13:37
slonopotamusX-Fade, something more realistic, please13:38
X-FadeI would imagine that it should kick in pretty soon.13:38
X-FadeAt like 65C orso.13:38
X-FadeWhich is far too low to do any damage.13:38
slonopotamusand what's the point then?13:39
X-Fadeslonopotamus: See if it works?13:39
slonopotamuswhy turn off if no damage?13:39
slonopotamuswhen it's too hot, turning off won't help :)13:39
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Ah, I meant to melt plastic orso.13:39
lbthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8047546.stm  Intel has been fined a record 1.06bn euros13:39
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slonopotamusokay, useless. smth else?13:40
slonopotamushttps://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/dsme/trunk/modules/dsme_wd.c?revision=155&root=dsm&view=markup13:41
slonopotamushttps://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/dsme/trunk/modules/hwwd.c?revision=155&root=dsm&view=markup13:41
slonopotamuso_O13:41
slonopotamusah. kicker and 'kicker thread'.13:42
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slonopotamusokaaay13:43
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slonopotamusi ran 'make'13:43
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* RST38h moos gleefully13:44
slonopotamusdsme-cal.c:29:17: error: cal.h:No such file or directory13:44
slonopotamusaaand? abusing gpl? :)13:44
Stskeepsyou haven't officially received any binaries with it compiled in :P13:45
RST38hhardcore gpl abuse detected13:45
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RST38hbtw, anyone knows what OpenMoko's screen size is?13:46
slonopotamusStskeeps, hmm... right13:47
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lardmanmorning13:48
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slonopotamuswrite(wd_fd, "*\n", 2) hehe :) watchdog likes asterisks13:50
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lcuk\o mornin lardman13:51
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lardmanhi lcuk13:51
slonopotamusStskeeps, do i understand correct that whole point of watchdog is to reboot device if battery charge controller feels bad?13:52
lardmanah, the wonders of dwarf13:52
slonopotamusStskeeps, i don't see why crashing X, for example, is so bad that reboot is required.13:53
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slonopotamusso if battery charger is written as kernel module, process wd isn't needed. no process but charger is so important that if it dies, immediate reset is required13:54
X-Fadeslonopotamus: If the device freezes because X crashed, the user doesn't know what to do.13:55
X-Fadeslonopotamus: So it just reboots to get it in working order again.13:55
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lardmanif a certain kernel module contains functions such as kfree, amongst others, does that mean it's using GPL code (aka the kernel) and therefore the source ought to be available?13:56
lardmans/contains/calls13:57
slonopotamusX-Fade, ahha, welcome to reboot loops.13:57
slonopotamusX-Fade, they are much more user-friendly13:57
RST38hslonopotamus: Watchdog reboots device when it stops responding, in general13:57
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Well sure, but most of the time X freezes it is just because it crashed..13:57
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Not corrupted the fs.13:57
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RST38hslonopotamus: even without battery charger, your device may hang for some reason and this is when watcdog reboots it13:58
RST38hslonopotamus: absolutely the same mechanism is used in Nokia's Symbian phones13:58
slonopotamusRST38h, same applies to any computer device. most of them happily live without process wd.13:59
X-FadeI'd rather have it reboot once than spinning the cpu at 100% when it is out of control and depleting the battery that way.13:59
slonopotamusreboot loop = 100% cpu usage14:00
X-Fadereboot loops are very rare.14:00
X-FadeAnd when that happens, there is no rescue for regular users anyway.14:00
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lardmanhopefully reboot loops will become a thing of the past for normal users with Fremantle14:01
lardmanwhat with separating out the desktop applet stuff from essential launcher functionality, etc14:02
slonopotamuslardman, if fremantle has wd, it has a chance to go into reboot loop :)14:02
X-Fadeslonopotamus: What good has a device that doesn't respond?14:02
lardmanbut it depends what causes the ui to hang though14:03
slonopotamusX-Fade, how often does X hang for you (on desktop, for ex)?14:03
thuxbtw when have to pull out battery, does it make fs dirty in this jffs case?14:04
lardmanthux: I think not as it's journalled and atomic14:04
thuxok14:04
lardmanthough sometimes you get hanging nodes, but it doesn't break the fs14:04
lardmanI think anyway14:04
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Depends, let's say a few times per month. And you don't want that with device when you are on the move.14:05
X-Fadeslonopotamus: And you can't expect a user to drop to the console and fix things.14:05
lardmanI never have X hang, it's always the desktop (usually the taskbar)14:05
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slonopotamusX-Fade, hang, not crash? because crashed x automatically restarts everywhere14:08
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lcukslonopotamus, my laptop stops responding completely every now and then14:13
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slonopotamuslcuk, fsck /dev/hands ? :)14:13
lcuki dunno i cant click a menu cos the mouse froze14:14
lcukand shouldnt that be /dev/finger14:14
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thuxin my lap strange option helped freezing14:15
lcukit used to be when the network broke, i think there was sometihng dodgy in the old driver i was using or the sshfs connection but thats a guess14:15
thuxclocksource=hpet helped me14:16
lcukthe problem is "my laptop freezes" isnt a very clear bug report, do i send it to lenovo or to ubuntu or to any one of the 100 or so packages i was using at the time14:17
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lcukso  i just reboot \@/14:17
lcuknow,  if my windows box crashes i can get reasonable info on whats happening ;)14:18
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lcukVDVsx, you bastard14:21
VDVsxlcuk, hahahahah14:21
lcuk:D14:22
lcukits a great thread14:22
VDVsxlcuk, I know you want one14:22
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lcukit does look cool with all of them there :)  i am biased, but think GeneralAntilles suits the star trek uniform better :D14:23
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VDVsxlcuk, one thing I learned from this thread, don't mess with penguinbait, he have great photoshop skills :P14:24
lcukagreed lol14:25
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* RST38h still thinks the council has to be suited in the new maemo.org design colors14:45
Stskeepsthen again14:45
Stskeepsthose suits are awesome.14:45
Stskeeps:P14:45
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RST38h+ I want the sidebar hanging from their butts like a tail14:45
Stskeepswhip out the photoshop, seems to be a good and humorous way to deal with the anger ;)14:46
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crashanddie_I think you made it quite clear now you really want to put the sidebar "up their arse", literally14:46
RST38hcrash: Not yet but as you see I am slowly getting there =)14:46
RST38hkrisse actually rises up a good topic: does Maemo need a mascot? =)14:47
Stskeepsi vote for penguinbait on a stick14:47
lcuki dont, if the changeover had gone without mutiny i wouldv thought something was wrong, people are people and disagreements happen, but on the whole things are calming down now and  the mood in the forum seems to be calming down14:49
lcuktho we will have the "make a new poll" meme for pretty much everything for the next few months ;)14:49
Stskeepsyeah, i understand the mutiny really14:49
lcukthe biggest shock and improvement to the forums hasnt been the theme change or the sidebar or the polls about polls, it was finding out about the amazing ispy page that exists14:50
lcukit gives the same overview that i used to look on the frontpage for but i can leave it up and its live :)14:51
lcuk( http://talk.maemo.org/vaispy.php )14:51
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lcukcompletely offtopic, is there a coders wiki anywhere, something with an indenting wysiwyg code editor (perhaps with code syntax coloring)14:55
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RST38humgh15:03
RST38hit is called Microsoft Studio .NET :)15:03
amoultHas anyone done any QT development for Maemo?15:04
RST38hiSpy "bold" posts look dead ugly i IE =)15:04
cosmoamoult: yes15:04
amoultAny pointers how I could set up autoconf/automake environment so it would play nicely with qmake15:05
lbtamoult: Qt installs and runs nicely on Diablo and Mer15:05
amoultyeah I know :)15:06
lbtah, gotcha, the full conftools setup15:06
lbttry #qt ?15:06
lbtI was wondering myself15:07
lcukRST38h, its just an alternative and it works nicely for me15:07
lbthow to 'properly' package a Qt app and/or library15:07
lcukRST38h, and .net isnt exactly what im thinking15:07
cosmoamoult: don't use autoconf/automake15:07
cosmojust use qmake and debian/rules that build using it15:08
lcukif a decent enough web code editor could be made and code stored into a wiki it would be fun - just as an experiment of course :)15:08
RST38hlcuk: guess what, such a thing exists15:09
RST38hlcuk: http://robrohan.com/projects/9ne/15:09
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lcuk:D thanks RST38h15:10
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amoultCosmo:  now I have two qmake project files, one for Maemo and one for Linux.15:11
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amoultI just want to take a look at the automake system to learn how to set it up, but would still like to retain ability to use qmake / QT Creator along with it15:19
cosmoqmake and autotools do mostly the same thing15:21
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amoultyes mostly. It just would be nice to be able to run .configure with some options and have all set up to create package for different kind of targets15:31
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GAN800timeless, he doesn't care. It's intentional and out of spite.15:43
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thuxirritating that wlan phone wlan doesn't work without sim card15:49
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RST38hwhat would be kept on a sim card in a wlan phone??15:49
lcukRST38h, your phone number for one thing15:50
RST38hlcuk: AFAIK, sim cards do not store their corresponding phone numbers15:51
RST38hlcuk: At least MTS cards do not: this data is only known to the central database15:51
lcuki never have to enter the number into my phones when i switch sims around15:51
RST38hlcuk: Correct :) That is because your IMSI is stored on a sim card15:52
lcukyeah but the info is stored on the sim to lookup the number - to a user the phone number is stored there15:52
RST38hlcuk: To a user yes, but not to a wlan phone unless this phone can access GSM network15:52
RST38hlcuk: As a user, you need to call a special 4-digit number (for MTS) to find out the phone number corresponding to your card15:53
lcukjust guessing here, but at some point wouldnt said phone have to talk with the phone companies themselves and hence register itself so it can get incoming calls?15:53
RST38hNot wlan stuff15:53
lcukwlan cannot accept incoming calls?15:53
RST38hWlan phone only needs to register itself with the VoIP gateway to receove calls15:53
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lcukbut the voip  gateway needs to know your number ..15:54
RST38hnope15:54
qgilHi, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=287038 Maemo Summit dates and venue!15:54
RST38hVoIP gateway needs to know the IP :)15:54
andrewfblackWell just checked the price for flying to Amsterdam15:54
qgilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_200915:54
Stskeepsqgil: fantastic :)15:55
RST38hAh, Amsterdam...15:55
lcuk:D qgil15:55
RST38hAndrew: Minimalist2? When? Please? =)15:55
qgilI'm learning about multithreading these days, deciding a Summit venue in Amsterdam while pushing a hackfest in Copenhagen...  :)15:56
andrewfblackRST38h: I've got to finish about a half a dozen little bugs, I'll try and finish it up today15:56
RST38hah15:56
RST38hAndrew: thanks in advance though =)15:56
lcukqgil, are you wearing your pimped out costume to the hackfest? :D15:56
qgilam I missing anything in that thread? I didn't even opened it...  :/15:57
VDVsxqgil, omg15:57
Stskeepsyes, you're missing out :)15:57
lcukwith costumes like that we need a maemo backing track band!15:57
lcuklol qgil, its amazing!15:57
qgilit says it's for council members, isn't it?15:57
lcukyes but somehow you got roped into it15:57
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lcuki believe you even joined dr peppers lonely hearts band at some point too15:58
Stskeepsat least it seems like community has mellowed out a little more now :)15:58
qgillemme see...15:58
lcukyeah :) light hearted ribbing15:59
lcukanyway,bbl compilings done here15:59
roopelight ribbing - for her pleasure.15:59
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qgilhey, I ws not aware of my avatar having CC license...16:01
RST38hqgil: I am not sure you want to open THAT thread16:01
qgiltoo late16:01
RST38hAt least put the food away if eating16:01
qgiltoo late16:01
qgil;)16:01
qgilso what are these 90 posts about16:02
X-FadeToo much time on their hands?16:02
lcukcommunity relaxing and having a laugh :)16:02
RST38hqgil: Is there some definite schedule for the Amsterdam event already? With the talk topics, etc.?16:03
X-FadeRST38h: lol, this is the first mention of the summit ;)16:04
X-FadeAlmost half a year away..16:04
RST38hX-Fade: Maybe I am just approaching it from a different direction...16:05
X-FadeRST38h: All the cool topic now, can be boring then?16:05
X-FadeAnd vice versa ;_16:05
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VDVsxRST38h, one of the topics should be Harmattan, by the announcement16:06
qgilRST38h: there is no schedule for Copenhagen in 2 weeks, leave alone Amsterdam in 5 months...16:06
RST38hVDVsx: =) With OFono, as promised by Quim =)16:06
VDVsxRST38h, lol16:06
inzofono only includes at-code this far :(16:07
qgilRST38h: watch out before someone quotes you quoting me wrongly  :)16:07
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Stskeepsand takes blurry pictures of the conversation16:07
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RST38hqgil: Ah, I am purposely spreading rumors!16:08
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RST38hinz: Nothing wrong with at-code, that is how most baseband chips talk to their masters16:08
VDVsxStskeeps, talking about blurry pictures, I count on you for the blurry pictures of the fremantle device at DK :P16:09
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andrewfblackI'll be more then happy to talk about anything anyone wants me to for a free ride there just checked pricing to fly there16:09
RST38hinz: So, ideally, you would be able to replace the bottom of oFono stack with any generic baseband hardware16:09
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StskeepsVDVsx: hey, i thought the xray of lcuk's finger was the new device..16:09
Stskeepsbut was rather confused it had a broken finger on it ;)16:10
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VDVsxStskeeps, yeah, I suspect lcuk already have one of those devices, and the finger story as just a distraction move :P16:11
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roopeYeah, they currently only work on artificial finger styluses.16:14
RST38hStskeeps: A blurry picture of Q7 named n915.gif and placed at one of those Chinese forums16:14
qgilVDVsx: I took a blurry picture, but it was in Amsterdam: http://www.flickr.com/photos/quimgil/3527500913/16:14
RST38hStskeeps: it will do wonders on iTT, believe me...16:15
* andrewfblack needs to get motivated to finish minimalist 2.016:16
VDVsxqgil, need some painting :P16:16
X-FadeFor laughs, try to pronounce all these room names ;)16:16
qgil"De Capel"16:17
RST38hThe picture looks like a monastery16:17
qgil;)16:17
RST38hShould we expects monks or nuns?16:17
StskeepsRST38h: should really have renamed this video: http://blip.tv/file/2107449/ and posted it through translate.google.com ..16:17
Stskeepsand write "omg no dpad" or something16:17
Stskeeps:P16:17
RST38hStskeeps: Do it!16:18
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RST38hStskeeps: Although you may want to change Mer theme to something darker - lots of people have seen Mer already + they expect Fremantle to have a dark theme16:19
StskeepsRST38h: that's qtablet, heh :P16:19
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VDVsxX-Fade, if I'm in front the centeral station, for each side is the venue ?16:21
lcukheh @ finger conspiracies,  Stskeeps the touchscreen seems about as responsive as my old one, graphics are nice and quick tho :D16:21
RST38hStskeeps: even better as it would generate more conspiracy theories16:21
Stskeepsi really have way too much equipment on my table atm: smartq, n800, freerunner, 770, n800 with wobbly lcd, ti83plus, and a fonera router..16:21
X-FadeVDVsx: ?16:21
RST38hWhat is the screen size of the Freerunner?16:21
Stskeeps480x640 in standard pose16:22
RST38hAnd can I have a rom dump out of that 83+? Please?16:22
Stskeepsa16:22
Stskeepsh16:22
RST38hSts: Ok, so that guy who wanted to port ati there still has a chance16:22
Stskeepsit's a ti84+16:22
RST38hEven better16:22
VDVsxX-Fade, I thought you are Dutch and knew amsterdam :)16:22
X-FadeVDVsx: Well, I do but your question didn't make sense.16:23
VDVsxX-Fade, yah, a lot of typos :(16:23
X-FadeVDVsx: http://tinyurl.com/qk3h3b16:24
X-Fade2.5 km from central station. Not that bad.16:25
lcukStskeeps, get some proper benchmarks on those systems, obviously its a step down by lacking the keyboard and camera and stuff, but has potential for general machine16:25
lcuksmartq^16:25
VDVsxX-Fade, thanks, now I'm located :), never been in this part of the city, I guess16:26
RST38hStskeeps: There is a program that you can run to dump it: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/373/37341.html16:27
lcukStskeeps, is it deep? could you easily hang it on the wall, i know the 7" is larger and more rounded back and technically less capable16:27
lcuk(but more as wanted)16:27
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VDVsxlcuk, about the finger conspiracy - I still don't get how a door can do that much damage, I think we don't have those kind of evil doors in my country :)16:36
RST38hVDVsx: I think you need to visit scp-wiki.wikidot.com to get into the right mood for that =)16:37
X-Fadeqgil: Do I create the event in events, or do you? :)16:38
VDVsxRST38h, lol16:38
qgilX-Fade: be my gest since I'm about to turn off the computer16:38
X-Fadeqgil: Ok, no problem.16:39
qgilthanks!16:39
qgilah, before I leave16:39
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qgilX-Fade: I think you are thinking too complex stuff for integrating tmo as infra for comments16:39
X-Fadeqgil: We need to discuss it some more.16:40
man_in_pdaquestion16:40
X-Fadeqgil: As I think that just adding a link to comments and not displaying them on the site is a loss of functionality.16:40
RST38hno.16:40
X-Fadeqgil: Same for not being able to comment directly on the page where you are..16:41
qgileverybody loves arstechnica and the comments there are many and of good quality, worth reading (at least compared to other erm popular IT blogs)16:41
qgilyet look http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/05/wifi-goes-gigabit-but-wont-go-through-walls.ars16:41
X-Fadeqgil: THey have banners to display ;)16:41
qgilthey don't even tell you how many comments16:41
X-Fadeqgil: They need the click throughs.16:42
qgil"Click here to view the comments on this article -->"16:42
RST38hqgil: Same happens on dpreview and other sites16:42
X-FadeI think that displaying comments directly under the article _adds_ to the informational value of the page.16:42
qgilmeh16:42
X-Fadeqgil: Especially in brainstorm case btw ;)16:43
qgilin exchange we get a platform that really invites to make comments, as opposed to the current comments16:43
RST38hI think the reasoning is that just a small number of people would actually discuss an article so showing comments right away is not essential16:43
aquatixdailywtf does the same16:43
aquatixnot sure what showing comments does to loading time?16:43
RST38hIt is a nice-to-have feature, i.e. if it does not cost users anything, it is worth having16:44
aquatixit makes the page bigger16:44
VDVsxagree with X-fade, personally don't like pages that hide the comments, and never read them because I'm lazy enough to not click the button16:44
RST38hBut if it takes some important screen estate from other things, just have a link16:44
aquatixmore KB's on you mobile :)16:44
qgilX-Fade: a brainstorm page with 1 idea and 2/3 solutions is already quite useful per se16:45
RST38haquatix: That too :(16:45
aquatixbut i like having the comments directly though16:45
X-Fadeaquatix: Yeah, but if you want to read the comments it takes twice the time ;)16:45
qgilas I see it, getting rid of current Midgard comments and connecting to tmo fixes many problems and is worth doing16:45
aquatixX-Fade: well, dailywtf skips the article then, for example16:45
RST38hX-Fade: That assumes that everybody wants to read the comments16:45
aquatixbut i don't really like that16:45
qgilthen having comments on page is an enhancement16:45
X-Fadeaquatix: As the latency for a request is worse on mobile.16:45
qgilbetween Midgard comments in page or tmo comments at tmo only, I would persnally prefer the second option16:45
RST38hX-Fade: So, if at least 50-70% want that then "yes", otherwise if it does not cost anything then still "yes", otherwise4 "no"16:46
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qgilI think it's fair to assume that for Downloads and even Brainstorm the majority of users go there to read and make one click (download or up/down)16:47
X-Fadeqgil: I really think that comments add value to the product description in downloads.16:47
X-Fadeqgil: But maybe that is just me?16:47
qgilsure16:47
qgilthey are 1 click away for the users, or... how many hours for Reggie and you?16:48
X-FadeWell, it is going to be a lot of work to implement correctly ;)16:48
qgiland because tmo is all about comments, at the end they offer a better value for users than an infra for comments that is not really inviting16:49
X-FadeAnd we need to provide back links etc..16:49
X-FadeBouncing between two websites can get confusing.16:49
RST38hqgil: Can I complain about Downloads please?16:49
qgilthat is my point, it doesn't seem to confure Ars people16:49
X-Fadeqgil: Well, that is is the same site.16:50
qgilRST38h: the poor X-Fade, give him a break  :)16:50
RST38hqgil: Naah, I want to complain to you :)16:50
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RST38hqgil: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=436916:50
qgilX-Fade: for the user bmo and tmo or dmo are also the same site16:50
qgilRST38h: I have nothing to do with this  :)16:51
qgilI warned you16:51
RST38hqgil: I do not know who made that decision and why, do remember complaining about it during some Sprint but it changed nothing16:51
X-Fadeqgil: Ok, but we don't have any user sync. So people can't comment without talk account.16:51
X-FadeThere are all these little details that make the experience ugly, in my view.16:51
qgilX-Fade: I never said you were wrong by saying that SSOP is a dependency  :)16:52
qgilSSO16:52
RST38hqgil: At least comment something there - isn't it ridiculous that the Downloads page shows just two apps, not the normal lists of latest/hottest apps?16:52
X-FadeMy guess is that SSO and account merge is months away still.16:52
RST38hSame for the main page although it looks more and more like the lost cause16:53
qgilRST38h: I really have nothing to do with this  :)16:53
RST38hEh...16:54
X-FadeRST38h: user.css -> #application-blocks1{display:none}16:54
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qgilX-Fade: mmmm... now you got me there16:54
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qgilX-Fade: so the question would be whether we want to have brainstorm sooner and with own comments, or later with comments integrated?16:55
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qgilX-Fade: mmmm... perhaps the second option, if you ask me16:55
X-Fadeqgil: If you launch it, there is no way back easily.16:55
qgilX-Fade: yeah, I know, that's why16:55
X-Fadeqgil: Converting the existing comments is goin to be hell ;)16:56
qgilsure16:56
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qgilthen we need to look better to that SSO schedula and that brainstorm schedule16:56
qgilI really believe it makes a whole difference for a brainstorm to happen in tmo or not16:56
X-FadeAnd we need to do a lot of work to implement the new comment thread creation signaling in downloads, news and brainstorm too.16:56
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qgildownloads and news can wait or perhaops not do it ever, since they currently exist16:57
qgilbut brainstorm is different16:57
X-FadeYes, brainstorm can be a test case, but -> SSO16:57
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qgilanyway, I don't want to be the showstopper either, but at least this is honestly what I think16:58
X-FadeWell once we actually have SSO and account merge, we could bring over comments.16:58
lardmanhi Quim16:58
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X-FadeBut it needs some thought.16:58
qgilX-Fade: anyway we haven't discussed whether we want to move the current enhancement requests from bugzilla16:59
qgilif so, that would take time before posting a first comment16:59
X-Fadeqgil: We haven't even discussed if we want to have comments in talk ;)16:59
qgilbut I'm not sure that is a good idea.....16:59
X-FadeBut ;)16:59
qgilanyway, too m uch thinking today17:00
qgillet's talk (or comment) in Copenhagen17:00
X-FadeYeah, let's sketch out some plan.17:00
X-Fadetekojo: are you coming too?17:01
X-FadeHmm he is gone.. ;)17:01
qgilI'll try to pull an estimate for SSO from Daniel/Tero (and then we add 2 months more)17:01
qgilI don't think he is coming17:01
qgilbye!17:01
qgil(hi lardman ) :)17:02
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* lardman tries to do some day job work rather than translating as,17:04
lardmanasm even17:04
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lardmanah cool, summit dates :)17:06
lardmanamazing what you miss over lunch17:06
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fiferboylbt: Do the i386 Qt files in the mer repository work?17:09
man_in_pdawhy does removing a 3.5 meg package in app manager only free about 1 meg? :(17:09
X-Fademan_in_pda: Because some libs are also used by another package?17:09
man_in_pdatrying to work out how i can clean up my /17:10
man_in_pdai wouldn't mind putting apps on the internal sd card17:11
lardmanjffsw is also compressed17:11
lardmans/jffsw/jffs217:11
man_in_pdanot got much space left on / here :(17:12
lardmanI meant that the amount of spaced used by a package proboably won't be what it reports17:12
* lardman gives up typing for the day, fingers not working very well17:12
lbtfiferboy: should do17:13
X-Fadewhile a package might have 3MB of files on an uncompressed fs, it can only use 1MB of actual disk space.17:13
man_in_pdaok17:14
RST38hman_in_pda: You asked two questions: 1) why freeing 3.5MB does not immediately free 3.5MB in / and 2) how to free /17:14
aquatixoh, / is compressed?17:14
aquatixdidn't know that17:14
RST38hman_in_pda: Which answer do you want first?17:14
lbtfiferboy: please let me know if they don't (nb they're for Ubuntu)17:15
man_in_pda2nd17:15
man_in_pdai'm satisfied with answers so far to #117:16
RST38hman_in_pda: Remove user manuals shipped by Nokia, remove sample images, music, and video, remove unused locales17:16
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RST38hman_in_pda: Reboot the tablet, it will make jffs free space it has "put away"17:16
fiferboyI installed them in Fremantle i386, but my build failed against them (libQtGui.so error)17:17
RST38hman_in_pda: This way you will get the real number of how much space you have left in /17:17
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man_in_pdaooh ok17:17
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man_in_pdacya lata then17:17
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lardmanI've always wondered if there's another way to trigger jffs2 to do that, any ideas?17:18
X-Fadelardman: Doesn't the fs need to be in RO mode for that?17:20
lardmandunno17:20
RST38hprobably not17:20
RST38hGive me a moment to search17:21
lardmanI can't see why though, as the jffs2 stuff sits below everything else17:21
fiferboylbt: Do you know what version of libfontconfig you built the Qt libs against?17:21
fiferboyI'm guessing 2.4.217:21
lardmannah, actually I think if the fs runs out of space a reshuffle is forced17:21
lardmanso that would be mounted RW at that point17:21
RST38hlardman: correct17:21
lbtfiferboy: build log says : installing fontconfig-config-2.6.0-1ubuntu12.all17:22
lbtlibfontconfig1-2.6.0-1ubuntu12.armel17:22
fiferboyOkay, Fremantle only has version 2.4.117:23
lbtheh, Mer is Ubuntu9.0417:23
lbtI don't think we can setup a Fremantle builder on OBS17:24
fiferboyI'll just have to build against the old version and run with the new version in scratchbox17:25
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fiferboyMaybe incompatible library versions are the reason I get CPU spikes on the device in Diablo17:26
RST38hlardman: garbage collection daemon is jffs2_gcd_mtd217:27
RST38hlardman: has no manpage so there is no way to say what the options are17:27
Bobbe(asked this in #nitdroid, but I don't think anybody is there). Is there any way I can install nitdroid and keep being able to boot my maemo / cloned maemo? Or does it wipe my whole bootmenu to the point of no repair?17:27
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lardmanRST38h: yeah, is it a kernel thing?17:28
RST38hnope17:28
RST38hlardman: white paper and sources: http://sources.redhat.com/jffs2/17:28
lardmanah, push back the hacked pvr.ko by a day, going to the cinema tonight17:29
lardmanat least Quim saw fit to give me another month to get it finished by putting the summit in Oct :)17:29
RST38hlardman: WAIT17:29
RST38hlardman: Is it OMAP2 version? =)17:29
lardmanwhat's that?17:30
lardmanpvr?17:30
lardmanyes17:30
* RST38h hugs lardman17:30
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X-FadeRST38h: Has been there for a very long time.17:30
lardmannot yet, lots of asm-translating still to go17:30
RST38hHow did you get the hold of documentation?17:30
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X-FadeRST38h: But didn't work.17:30
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lardmanRST38h: I didn't, just DWARF data + ASM17:30
RST38hX-Fade: I remember the initial thing which was mostly a stub17:30
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RST38hlardman: So, what does it do then?17:31
lardmannothing, it's just notes atm17:31
man_in_pdayay17:31
lardmanI've converted something like 6 fns17:32
man_in_pdanow has 15MB on / :P17:32
lardmanhave to finish the other 273, then sort out arguments, plumb in any globals shown in the DRAWF data, see if it will compile, etc17:32
RST38hoh17:32
lardmanI really can't type today17:32
lardman10 weeks I reckon17:33
RST38hshould have almost the whole OGL API...17:33
lardmanno, this is just the kernel driver, then the ARM-side support lib and the OGL lib also need to be done17:33
RST38hexcept for the most ludicrous thigns, not included into OGL ES17:33
RST38hoh^217:34
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lardmanwhy the negativity, keep your chin up etc :)17:36
lardman~lart FDE code17:37
* infobot stamps FDE code on the forehead with the official Troll marker17:37
RST38hlardman: just imagining the sheer number of things you will have to do =)17:38
man_in_pdahmm17:39
man_in_pdashould i kill/murder maemo-supplied "map" program? :P17:39
fiferboylbt: Are your changes all in the libqtgui4 package?17:40
lardmanwhat would life be without a challenge to get stuck into...? :)17:40
lbtyes17:40
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irgsomethingare there any dsp developers?17:40
fiferboyI wonder if there is a way just to build that package to speed things up17:40
irgsomethingim searching for some kind of RTA17:41
lardmanirgsomething: yes17:41
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lardmanRTA?17:41
lbtyes17:41
lbtI build the packages fully; then I go into the chroot17:41
irgsomethingreal time analysis??17:41
lbtto src/gui17:41
lbtand do a make17:41
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irgsomethingsome kind of spectrum analyzer17:41
lbtthat produces ../../lib/libQtGui.so.4.5.017:42
lbtwhich I scp over to /usr/lib on the tablet17:42
lardmanirgsomething: ah I see, so you're wondering about an app rather than some feature17:42
lardman?17:42
irgsomethingso it is17:42
fiferboylbt: Excellent17:42
lardmanirgsomething: in which case the answer is no, but I can't see any problems with implementing a short-time FFT on the device17:42
lbtwhen I'm happy I diff the code (actually I setup a git tree in the chroot)17:42
lbtand apply patches to the main repo17:42
fiferboyI see you fixed the scrollbar issue17:43
lbtthen rebuild it all17:43
lardmanirgsomething: write a wrapper and I'll look at implementing the DSP code for you17:43
lbtyes :)17:43
Stskeepsheh17:43
lardmanwhere wrapper is the ARM-side app to pass data in and out17:43
lbtbut Antonio's other points are... interesting17:43
irgsomethingok, i will see what can be done17:43
Stskeepsprofessor at my uni made an announcement on the Maemo/Mozilla developer weekend :>17:43
lbtheh17:43
lbtyou said... ?17:43
fiferboyI think his maximum velocity must mean when flicked, not when following the finger17:43
Stskeepsi wonder if any of the people i know from my work will show up and be astonished what i actually do .. :>17:43
irgsomethingthanks17:44
lbtI hope so... that's what I intend17:44
lardmanirgsomething: if you know how you want to write the code I can just sort out the link code for you, if you provide the analysis fn too, up to you17:44
fiferboyThat should be pretty easy17:44
lbtyep... it is17:44
lbtjust need to make sure it's independent of refresh rate17:44
fiferboyThe overshoot would probably be the hardest, I think.17:44
lbtalso might up the refresh rate for GL17:44
lbtyeah - that's scary17:45
fiferboyI don't know about the scroll-by-item17:45
irgsomethingi will get deeper in that arm wrapper thing and will text you, if im ready17:45
lardmanirgsomething: n-point fft is a built-in macro so no need to do that bit, just the time shifting business (which I'll have to look up myself)17:45
lbtTBH I think that is a bad decision17:45
lbtthe API allows the developer to select scr-by-item17:45
lbtso we should not override them17:45
lbtand17:45
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lardmanirgsomething: I meant just a basic C fn to read a file and to display the output data, comms with the dsp is by writing and reading from a dev entry17:46
lbtit breaks the ability to set min/max on scrollbars (I think)17:46
lardmanor by a shared memory mapped "file"17:46
lbtso scroll->min(0) scroll->max(10)...17:46
irgsomething?17:46
lbtI'd have to grub around in the internals and completely break the (correct) loose coupling]17:46
fiferboyMaybe you could just really slow down scrolling when s-b-i is enabled.  Right now it just shoots by in a single frame17:46
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lbtactually I need to see an example17:47
lbtI may misunderstand the issue17:47
fiferboyAll the list demos use scroll by item17:47
lardmanirgsomething: what's the application anyway?17:47
lbtqtdemo ?17:47
fiferboyYes17:47
lbtthey all work nicely for me17:48
lbtthey 'step' of course17:48
fiferboyWhen I used flickcharm with scroll-by-item it would scroll to the bottom just about instantly17:48
lbthmm17:48
lbtyes17:48
lbtit's broken17:48
lbtmine doesn't do that (I hope!)17:48
fiferboyI'll re-enable it on birdlist and try it on the tablet.17:48
fiferboyIt is REALLY noticable then (due to the large rows)17:49
lbtsend me the binaries BTW17:49
lbtI've been to busy to build it17:49
fiferboyWill do.17:49
lbt:(17:49
irgsomethinglardman: please descripe me what this sentence means?17:49
irgsomethingi got no clue17:50
fiferboylbt: Do you just need armel, or do you want both?17:50
lardmanirgsomething: I meant how will you want to use the app?17:50
lbtarmel... 386 was OK17:50
irgsomethingah17:50
lardmananalysis of ambient sound, currently playing music, some arbitrary file containing data, etc17:50
irgsomethingjust gui17:50
irgsomethingfor ambient sound17:50
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fiferboylbt: Sent.17:51
lbtta17:51
irgsomethingwith 1/3 octave view, if possible17:51
lardmanon the current devices it's not possible to access the mic directly, so you'll have to loop the pcm data through the ARM and back to the DSP, not very efficient17:51
irgsomethingok17:51
lardmanbut doable17:51
irgsomethinggot it17:51
lardmancan you program>17:51
lardman?17:51
irgsomethingjust a little bits17:52
lardmanprepare to learn17:52
lardman:)17:52
irgsomethinggot c learn from univrsity17:52
irgsomethingi got time17:52
lardmanhow do you wish to visualise the fft stuff?17:52
irgsomethingjust some graph17:53
irgsomethingor bars17:53
lardmanright17:53
irgsomethingthe simplest method17:53
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lardmanok, you on here usually?17:54
irgsomethingim interested in the level-difference between one freq. and another17:54
irgsomethingyes, im17:54
lardmangood good, well I'll have a look at it on Friday evening/Sat morning17:54
irgsomethingok, thank you first17:55
* lardman makes note to work out how to do a STFFT17:55
lardmannp17:55
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irgsomethingis there a possibility to record a wav? file and fft that??17:55
fiferboylbt: hildon-pannable-area draws an extra rectangle when required for overshoot in the expose event17:55
lardmanyeah that's probably the easiest way to start actually17:55
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lbtfiferboy: got distracted by numptyphysics port17:56
lbtback now...17:56
irgsomethingthat would be fine17:56
fiferboynumptyphysics distracted me a lot a while ago17:56
irgsomethingso, where should i start?17:57
lardmanbasic C program to read in a wav file17:57
lardmanand some code to display a gui and display data17:57
irgsomethingok17:58
lardmanthe DSP will accept chunks of data of whatever length you/we decide and perform an fft on them, then pass back the complex coefficients17:58
* irgsomething will start to learn guipro.17:58
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lardmanso you can stick in some pseudo code to open() then in a loop write() and then read() from a dev entry17:58
irgsomethingok, so long17:59
lardmanotoh, it might be better to process a buffer of data, as the ffts need to overlap iirc, that would be easier on the dstgateway I think17:59
lardmananyway we'll cross that bridge when we get to it :)17:59
* lardman wonders what guipro is17:59
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irgsomethinggui programming18:00
fiferboylbt: The rectangle would shrink over time as the overshoot event goes on18:00
lardmanah ok, I thought it was some tool18:00
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lardmanirgsomething: python might work, assuming you can open dev entries with it18:01
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fiferboylbt: QAbstractScrollArea has a protected function "setViewPortMargins"18:01
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fiferboyCan you access protected functions from your code?18:01
lbtyes18:02
* irgsomething will learn python, too18:02
lopzhola18:02
fiferboyYou sould be able to add a margin to the (top|bottom|right|left) that decreases over time.18:02
fiferboyI _think_ that would work, but it would need to be tried out18:03
lbtlet me look18:04
fiferboyok18:04
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irgsomethinglardman: first i will get recording to work, than call ?mathjinni? to plot some function18:05
fiferboylbt: You code absolutely does work for scroll-by-item!18:06
fiferboyVery nice!18:06
irgsomethingthen i will text you to fft the data18:06
lbtI think Antonio doesn't like that it 'skips'18:06
fiferboyReally?  That seems like a very small issue18:07
lbtI think he'd like each 'skip' to be animated18:07
lbtwhich would be cool on  dual-core openGL system....18:07
Stskeepsdual gore gl for n900! :P18:07
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lbtand insane on an N800 ;)18:07
lbtStskeeps: drop it from 10m and it'll have a dual core...18:08
Stskeepsi still want that vmware for n8x0..18:08
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fiferboyDoesn't the scrollbar skip in the same way with s-b-i?18:08
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lbtdunno... you tell me :)18:08
lbt(hope so!)18:08
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fiferboyIt looks the same to me.18:09
lbtgood18:09
lbthow do we say WONTFIX then ;O18:09
fiferboyMaybe Antonio's issue is that it is hard to see that it is coasting to a stop18:09
lbtyeah, that can look wierd18:09
lbtall ok and then suddenly a jump18:10
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lbtas it passes the threshold18:10
crashanddie_dneary: I do speak dutch and can try to place a few calls during business hours as long as my involvement is not too excessive (I do have a job, and would like to keep it that way)18:10
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fiferboyI thought the problem was much more severe, like FlickCharm.  This is WAY better, if not as smooth as scroll-by-pixel18:11
lbthmm18:11
dnearyThanks for the offer Crash18:11
lbtanimation and bounce18:11
lbthmm18:11
dnearyI'm going to list you as a Dutch speaker volunteer on the wiki18:12
Macerlol18:12
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dnearyIn fact, Dutch speakers aren't really that necessary - in my experience, everyone in Dutchland speaks Englandish18:12
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Macerenglandish?18:13
Macer=)18:13
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Macerdo they teach it in school?18:13
Stskeepsbetter than singlish18:14
lardmanirgsomething: sounds reasonable18:14
lardmanirgsomething: what frequency range do you want to display?18:14
Macerdutchland? =)18:14
irgsomething20Hz -20kHz if possible18:15
Macerheh18:15
irgsomethingi will testthe mikrophone18:15
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crashanddie_dneary: yeah I know, but sometimes it's just easier to handle as people get confused18:18
* irgsomething will test that damn microphone later, now he has to go to work18:19
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irgsomethinglardman: so long18:20
fiferboylbt: I see what you are saying about the scrollbars in s-b-i now.18:23
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lbtoof, twin bladed helicopter just flew over the house18:24
lbtit shook!!18:24
lbtfiferboy: in a good way ?18:25
lardmanirgsomething: cu later18:25
fiferboyWell, in the way you were describing.18:25
fiferboyI can't really think of a solution that would work well.18:25
Bobbedid anybody here get gears working on a n800?18:26
fiferboyIf you could get the size of the view area (which I am not even sure is available due to rows being offscreen)18:26
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fiferboyAnd the number of items in the list and come up with an average item size you might be able to do something18:27
fiferboyBut it would still look wierd if the rows aren't uniform height.18:27
lbtit would need a lot of re-writing18:28
lbtIMHO18:29
fiferboyI think you are right.  How does your code correctly handle s-b-i right now?  FlickCharm moved the scrollbar one item for ever pixel of scroll.18:31
lbtfloating point18:32
lbtcalculates and stores position wrt range18:33
fiferboyAh, I think that is how hildon-pannable-area does it as well.18:33
fiferboyNice thinking, better than the one pixel, one increment on the scrollbar18:34
lbtscrollFactor.ry() = (qreal) vsb->pageStep() / qabstractscrollarea->viewport()->height();18:34
fiferboyviewport()->height() returns the total height in pixels for the scroll area?18:34
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lbtyes, viewport isa widget18:34
lardmanI wonder if irgsomething will be disappointed to find out that the DSP bridge probably can't maintain ~44kHz data transfer18:35
fiferboyGotcha18:35
lardmanhmm, scratch my comment, it works for the SBC encoder18:36
lbtnow I have to fix nested scrollareas...18:36
lbtthat's ugh18:36
lbtI need to check each child object to determine if it's a scrollarea18:37
fiferboyIs it possible tojust scroll the innermost in every situation?18:37
lbtit's to do with how I filter events from all children18:38
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lbtso the outermost sa filters events for everything in it18:38
lbtit needs to ignore anything inside that is scrollable18:39
lbthowever there is no way to ask things18:39
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lbt"are you scrollable"18:39
lbthmm maybe I have to implement that?18:39
lbtyeah, actually18:39
lbtif I ask "are you an abstactscrollarea"18:40
lbtthen it'll say yes even if it's been reimplemented18:40
lbtas, eg, a scrollarea ?18:40
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lbtthen do some set intersection stuff18:40
fiferboyYour code installs a filter for every QAbstractScrollArea, right?18:42
lbtno18:42
lbtit installs a filter for every widget inside an QASA18:43
lbthttp://pastebin.com/d748d492618:43
lbtI'm hacking that... there is no obj->isAbstractScrollArea() method yet ;)18:43
lbtand I doubt list arithmetic is that coolly easy either ;)18:44
fiferboyI was going to ask if -= would subtract a list subset.18:44
fiferboyThat would be nice.18:44
lbtI wish...18:44
lbtit might.... Qt/STL is pretty neat18:44
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fiferboyThere is a +=, but it doesn't look like a -= (unless it inherits it from something)18:45
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lbtno :(18:45
lbtfeature request !18:45
fiferboyI wouldn't have been too surprised if it was there.18:46
thopiekarStskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#Installation_in_VirtualBox :)18:49
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fiferboyfor isAbstractScrollArea you could do something like:18:50
fiferboyQAbstractScrollArea *scrollArea = dynamic_cast<QAbstractScrollArea*>(widget);18:50
fiferboy    if (scrollArea) {18:50
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andrewfblackRST38h: just letting you know Minimalist 2.0 is almost ready18:54
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lbtfiferboy:  obj->inherits("QAbstractScrollArea")19:01
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fiferboyEven better!19:04
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lbthttp://pastebin.com/d7770d11219:04
fiferboyAlthough:  "Consider using qobject_cast<Type *>(object) instead. The method is both faster and safer."19:04
lbtooh.. must read more19:05
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fiferboyLooks good.19:05
fiferboyI'm no longer sure about setViewportMargins, as it says that is the margin AROUND the scrolling area19:06
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lbthmm, remove is probably better19:06
lbtas it will short-circuit19:07
lbtagree about the margins... thought I'd do this first...19:07
fiferboyyou mean removeOne is better?19:07
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lbtyes19:10
Stskeepslo yerga :)19:10
lbtmake19:10
yergaHey Stskeeps19:10
Stskeepshow is it going?19:11
fiferboyWould you mind sending me the binary file so I could test it on all my nested scroll areas?19:11
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yergaStskeeps, fine, thanks19:11
yergaa bit busy preparing the finals19:12
Stskeepsah, i know the feeling19:12
Stskeepsi have a thesis meeting tomorrow and a horrible linear algebra exam in a month19:12
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Stskeeps'lo Myrtti19:15
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Myrttilo19:18
Stskeepshow is it going?19:19
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fiferboylbt: bbiab19:21
lbtl8r19:21
lbt(it build BTW)19:22
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slonopotamusplease, raise a hand everyone who has something different than 0x30 in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/default_country19:44
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* lardman apologises that both hands are stuck to kb, and N810 is being used in the other room19:53
slonopotamusif yes, please run strace -s256 -o wlan-cal_strace chroot /mnt/initfs/ /usr/bin/wlan-cal and gimme contents of wlan-cal_strace19:55
slonopotamus'apt-get install strace' to install strace19:56
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AFBN810anyone know how to change sheets in gnumeric20:15
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lardmanctrl-tab as a guess20:21
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elninjaI want to run OS2008 from external SD, and I'm partitioning the card. Do I need a VFAT partition, and will it use a swap partition?20:31
AFBN810no tab key on my tablet20:31
elninjaTry CTRL+I20:32
elninjaWorks in some apps20:33
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AFBN810nope20:33
fiferboylbt: Could you send me the so file?20:35
lbtI was going to try via irc.. it's 10Mb20:35
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kfxAFBN810: have you tried edit->sheet->manage sheets20:36
kfxthen clicking on the one you want to switch to20:36
kfxthen closing the dialog box20:36
AFBN810that works thanks wise there was an eaiser way but that will work20:37
kfxit's weird they don't show up just above the status bar20:39
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andrewfblackkfx: you would think there would be tabs for switching but ohwell20:49
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GAN800mascots. . . .21:27
RST38hLet us just use GeneralAntilles as a mascot and be done with it21:27
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lbtback now21:35
lbtfiferboy: hi21:35
fiferboylbt: hi21:35
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fiferboyDid you test the nested scrolling?21:37
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lbtjust trying it21:40
lbtwhere did I have to copy data?21:40
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fiferboyIf you installed the deb it should be in the right place, if not copy "src/data/tables" to "~/.birdlist/"21:43
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lbtcould not open database birdlist21:47
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lbtI did make instead of buildpkg... building deb now...21:47
GAN800Ah, finally, Jaaksi blogs again21:47
RST38hanything meaningful?21:48
Stskeeps"i ate the rx-51 and you can't have it"21:48
fiferboylbt: Are you running it on the tablet?21:48
lbtyes21:48
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GAN800RST38h, tell you in a sec21:49
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lbtStskeeps: you wanted a gtk hacker.... grab murrayc... he'll help Mer ;)21:49
GAN800RST38h, lol, no. It's, like, four lines.21:49
Stskeepslbt: at a fashionable price, probably ;)21:50
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fiferboylbt: Nested scrolling isn't working for me.21:51
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RST38hGAN: Eh...21:51
lbtdamn21:51
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GAN800RST38h, he just mentioned Qt and oFono21:52
fiferboyI may have screwed up the copy, but it is acting the same as before.21:52
lbtstill it was a first cut...and I can imagine some issues21:52
RST38hMaemo + Moblin stuff is more intriguing though21:52
lbtBTW that .so prints debug info21:52
fiferboyActually, I think I got the copy right because it is dumping debug info21:52
RST38hGiven that Moblin2 is RedHat based and thus not quite compatible with Maemo21:52
Stskeepshmm? url?21:53
GAN800RST38h, Hildon, etc.21:53
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GAN800Stskeeps, planet.maemo.org21:53
Stskeepsah21:53
fiferboylbt: Scroll bar dragging is working now21:53
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RST38hGAN: Yes, except that these Moblin guys have been recently trying to get away from Hildon21:53
RST38hvoice enabled moblin and maemo...oh yess21:53
lbtgood21:54
lcuk"computer"21:54
lbtthe registerchildren code won't work21:54
RST38hRedHat  <=== oFono changelog21:55
RST38hshit, wait21:55
fiferboylbt: The part where you remove the scroll area derived children?21:55
RST38hhttp://git.kernel.org/?p=network/ofono/ofono.git;a=summary  <== oFono changelog21:56
lbtyes21:56
lbtit's ok first pass21:56
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fiferboyWhat if instead of removing the scroll area derived children you loop through all the children and just add the non-scroll-area-derived?21:56
lbtbut if you add a widget to a descedant SA then the childAdded event calls it again21:56
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lbtit tracks newly added children anywhere in the heirarchy21:57
RST38hLooks like they are busy implementing voice call finite state machine21:58
RST38hThe low level stuff is not there yet, just the skeletons for it21:58
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lbtHarald Welte on ofono ... http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/05/12#20090512-ophono_fso21:59
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RST38hpoor little OpenMoko...Not only they are out of money but big guys are ignoring them too22:01
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RST38hlbt: Actually I have an answer to that pissed off guy question22:02
lbt...22:02
RST38hlbt: oFono does not use FSO because FSO does not provide any code to make voice calls, according to their own Wiki22:02
toggles_wRST38h: it's over, as of yesterdaydidn't intel and nokia go opensource?22:02
RST38hlbt: exhibit #1: http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Implementations22:02
toggles_woh.. oops22:03
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StskeepsRST38h: i would encourage FSO to work with ofono really - nothing will be better than being able to take big consulting fees cos you helped push the platform and develop it :P22:03
RST38hSts: ïIf I were Intel or Maemo, I wouldn't care about FSO22:04
RST38hSts: They are the Pandora of smartphones22:04
StskeepsRST38h: ah but at least they have hw that's sold :P22:04
RST38hSts: Yes, true, but how well did it work?22:05
StskeepsRST38h: sw crap22:05
Stskeeps:P22:05
Stskeepsalso, whoever designed the microsd slot needs to die22:05
RST38hSts: If you believe their Wiki, they did not even have sw for voice calling22:05
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RST38hSts: Which is incidentally what oFono is22:06
StskeepsRST38h: i'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on any of those points :P22:06
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RST38hSts: So, Intel just paid a few of their engineers to read into AT cellular command set and implement the correct state machine for making voice calls22:06
Stskeepswith FSO i would really just encourage them to get in the project and use the synergy of community and big companies as early as possible22:06
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Stskeepsbut that's my own personal opinion22:07
RST38hSts: FSO is a bunch of guys still developing for a piece of outdated hardware which is no longer produced22:07
Stskeepsif i was to choose a voice stack for mer, i would probably go for ofono22:07
Stskeeps(without looking too closely at technical details)22:08
RST38hSts: Do look at technical details though22:08
Stskeepsit's amazing how much rucus there can be over dbus apis..22:08
RST38hSts: So, really the smart thing would be to produce a reasonably open source friendly piece of voice call capable hw and then try to pull FSO guys over22:09
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RST38hSts: But neither Nokia nor Inel are particularly eager to do his just now22:09
RST38hs/his/this22:09
Stskeepsi'm (thank god) not in that area just yet22:10
Stskeepseven though i just got a freerunner donated22:10
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toggles_wi just ditched my freerunenr for the n810, if pan would work it would be perfect and way more of a phone...22:11
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StskeepsRST38h: i wonder if the smartq people could be encouraged to drop in a gsm chip, hm :P22:13
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RST38hhehe22:13
RST38hask them if they would be willing to add a baseband chip and give you the docs :)22:13
Stskeepshonestly, wouldn't i just be happy with AT commands and ability to grab voice from it?22:13
RST38hthis can probably be done as a separate board too, the usual control interface is i2c22:13
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RST38hSts: that is how baseband chip operates22:14
RST38hSts: there is also some analog circuitry, but control goes over a simple serial line22:14
Stskeeps*nod*22:15
RST38hDo ask them about this stuff though, you have high chances of success with this question22:16
Stskeepsi will once the dust has settled :P22:16
RST38hshit22:17
* RST38h curses tracker22:17
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RST38hCan I uninstall this "helpful" program somehow? It is eating 100% of my other cpu22:18
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suihkulokkiapt-get remove tracker22:20
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RST38hthanks22:22
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RST38hIt's dead, Jim! You take its tricorder and I will take its purse.22:24
RST38hWhen this is bundled with NITs, it will eclipse Modest!22:27
Stskeepswell, tracker on ubuntu is a older version afaik22:27
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Stskeepsalso, are you DC connected? :P22:29
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RST38hNo, running on batteries, fan spinning crazy, second core running tracker at 100%22:30
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RST38hand I have just deleted 470MB of tracker indices22:30
RST38hBTW, all tracker indexing has been disabled via the applet a few days ago and still shows as disable in the cfg file22:31
RST38hThe only thing that killed it was apt-get remove as suihkulokki suggested22:31
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lbtfiferboy: made a .deb and get the same error22:43
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fiferboyThe font config error?22:43
lbtcould not open database birdlist22:45
lbtin a popup22:45
lbtdo I still need ~/.birdlist?22:45
lbtUnable to connect to database, giving up: "Driver not loaded Driver not loaded"22:45
fiferboyIt should create it on first run.22:46
lbthave I missed dependecies?22:46
lbtusing dpkg -i22:46
fiferboyDo you have libqt4-sql-sqlite installed?22:46
lbtno22:48
lbtyes22:48
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lbtta22:48
fiferboynp22:49
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JaffaEv'ning, all22:55
thopiekarhi Jaffa22:55
thopiekar:)22:55
JaffaGood to be home :)22:55
fiferboylbt: Still loading the database?22:57
crashanddie_Jaffa: :(22:58
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lbtall done23:02
lbtno pics though23:02
lbtI selected ~MyDocs/birds as the photo dir...23:02
* lcuk likes the creative flow people are havin in the forum :)23:03
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lcuk\o hey jaffa23:03
fiferboyYou have to assign pics from photos in that directory23:03
lcukseb '\o23:03
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lbtI have no pics23:03
lbtAren't yours included?23:03
fiferboyNo, no pics by default.23:03
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fiferboyyou can get some from http://birdingandrew.blogspot.com23:04
Stskeepsdo i dare to ask which maemo app this one is? :P23:04
lbtwhen I ran it on x86 I had pics23:04
lbtbirdlist :)23:04
lbtit's rather nice23:05
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lbtfor twitchers only!23:05
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fiferboylbt: Are you or your wife twitchers?23:05
Stskeepslbt: we should adapt it with pictures of maemo.org community members, for the cph meet..23:05
Stskeeps:P23:05
lbtused to be23:06
* Myrtti raises an eyebrow23:06
lbtStskeeps: good idea23:06
lbtstill RSPB23:06
lbtit'd work too23:06
* Stskeeps ponders to bring his hat to look more recognizable.23:06
lbteastern european section23:06
lbtsouth american23:06
lbtfinnish23:06
lcukStskeeps, you will be recognisable anyway23:07
lcukarent you wearing a costume with random mer devices all over23:07
Stskeepstrue.23:07
Stskeepsand a beagleboard embedded in my skull23:07
* lcuk will have a dodgy finger 23:07
Stskeeps:P23:07
lbtfiferboy: so no piccies in the source?23:07
lcuklbt, the latest liqbase includes a great list of all the maemo members :D23:08
fiferboylbt: No.  Too many species (10331)23:08
lbtand you wondered why it was slow at scrolling?23:09
fiferboyIf you double click on a species it brings up the wikipedia article, though.  Pics are usually there23:09
fiferboyWell, I usually only have it display 200-110023:09
lbtyeah, I had thumbnails b423:09
lbtand it is fine scrolling without them23:09
lbtso I wanted to see if the thumbnails slowed it down23:10
* Jaffa wonders about reading tmo tonight. Nah - will hit "Mark forums read" tomorrow and ignore it :)23:10
lbtactually, it's really nice and responsive23:10
fiferboyput some pics in your directory and assign them to sightings23:10
lbtwhat's the webpage widget called?23:10
lbtmeh... time...23:10
fiferboyI just designed at around a QWebView widget, it's got a UI file in the source23:11
StskeepsJaffa: the council uniforms thread is a blast.23:11
Stskeeps:P23:11
lbtit doesn't fingerscroll23:11
lbtso I was going to look23:11
fiferboyYes, QWebView doesn't fingerscroll23:12
lbtyet23:12
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fiferboy:)23:12
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fiferboyI need to optimize the interface a little more for small screens, make it easier to find a specific location file, finish the help files, etc23:15
fiferboyFinger scrolling is a very nice touch23:15
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Stskeepsfantastic chinese forums23:15
Stskeeps"Have good thermal crack"23:15
Stskeeps(and translate.google.com)23:15
RST38hurgh23:16
crashanddie_I would recommend putting some termal paste on your crack23:16
crashanddie_before you burn out23:16
RST38hSts: I *think* they mean the space shuttle Atlantis =)23:16
Stskeepslol :P23:16
ProteousMmmm, thermal crack23:17
crashanddie_ok, well that's it for me guys, heading home23:17
fiferboylbt: Try opening the preferences and scrolling the left-hand list widget23:17
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lbtI'm running this under Mer23:18
lbtand it doesn't need to scroll23:18
lbt(not enough entries)23:18
lbthmm23:19
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lbtmassive event storm23:20
lbt2 5 323:20
fiferboyNo horizontal scroll?23:20
lbtno23:20
fiferboyTry increasing your font size at the main window (zoom button) and then open preferences23:20
lbtMer gives you fullscreen popups23:22
* RST38h is facing a problem23:22
fiferboyAh, right.  Like Fremantle, kind of.23:22
fiferboyIf you make the font size big enough you should get scrolling :)23:22
lbtprobably23:22
lbtyes23:22
lbtlooks like it23:23
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lbtouter scrolls23:23
lbtinner doesn't23:23
lbtsilly UI23:23
fiferboyDo you get the CPU through the roof trying to scroll the list widget?23:24
lbtyes23:24
lbtyou have some kind of event storm23:24
lbt2 5 323:24
lbtQEvent::MouseButtonPress QEvent::MouseMove QEvent::MouseButtonRelease23:25
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fiferboyI don't think anything is different about that particular list widget23:26
lbtnah, got to be my code23:26
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fiferboyActually, the list widget is inside a scroll area, that might be it.23:29
lbtyes23:29
fiferboyIt is unecessary to have a scrolling widget in a scroll area.  I can change that.23:29
lbtno23:29
lbtit should be fine23:29
lbtit's a good test too23:29
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cars__I can't seem to get the stylus keyboard back.  All that shows is the finger keyboard on my n810.23:30
fiferboyMy code is usually unusual to be a good test.23:30
lbtheh23:32
lbtnb23:32
andrewfblackhello23:32
lbtfindChildren23:32
lbtReturns the children of this object that can be cast to type T23:32
lbthmmm :)23:32
fiferboyToo bad you can't find the children that CAN'T be cast to type T23:33
fiferboyJust a little more work, I guess23:33
lbtyes23:33
Proteousjust let me near any child and I will make sure they need a cast23:33
fiferboyI've got to go now.23:33
crashanddie_People23:33
crashanddie_DANCE!23:33
lbt'k ta23:33
Proteousoh wait, are we talking programing?23:33
crashanddie_:D :D :D :D :D23:33
lbtcrashanddie I can do that23:33
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lbtTango ?23:33
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crashanddie_Whatever you want :)23:34
lbtSamba....23:34
cars__Is there a setting I have missed?  I've scoured the control panel but can't find anything.23:34
* RST38h casts Proteous to void * and assigns NULL to him23:35
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crashanddie_that wouldn't work, really23:36
crashanddie_rather, you should cast NULL to typeof(Proteous) and assign it to him23:36
lbtdelete Proteous23:37
lbtc++ is so much better23:37
lbtonce again memory management issues....23:37
lbt<sigh>23:37
crashanddie_lbt: don't fame C++ for having less memory management issues than C23:38
lbt~lart C23:38
* infobot throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at C23:38
crashanddie_let us not forget than C and C++ became popular because they *allowed* manual memory management... Where all the languages before abstracted that from the developer23:38
* lbt loves C really23:39
lbtemacs is written in C23:39
lbtsay no more23:39
lbtif C is capable of such perfection....23:39
Proteousdon't let me start a programing lanuguage fight23:40
crashanddie_slaming either C or C++ for memory management issues is like slamming a manual transmission for being too difficult compared to an automatic :)23:40
Proteousor cake for being better then pie (even though it is)23:40
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Proteouson a side note, when you are eating pie it is easier to drive an auto23:41
crashanddie_not if you're on the highway, you don't change gears there23:41
crashanddie_find the error: "Our client is an exciting London based start-up founded a talented and successful entrepreneur, they currently have a requirement for a CTO / Lead Architect to lead the development of their next project, which is highly regarded a revolutionary service."23:42
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crashanddie_so basically, you want to have me do the job of a CTO, Architect, Tech Lead, and Project Manager while paying me the minuscule salary of an undergrad? Right.23:43
derfOh. I thought you were complaining that the author couldn't write a grammatical sentence to save their lives.23:43
crashanddie_that too.23:44
crashanddie_headhunters think in keywords, grammar is unnecessary to them23:44
crashanddie_If headhunters ruled the world, a CV would be made of "Young. Experienced. Good looking." Pick one.23:46
derfYou can be young and good looking.23:46
crashanddie_Next! (Can't follow rules)23:46
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* RST38h makes crashanddie Vice President on Web Technologies Strategic Development and asks him to do his web site for free23:47
b-manheh23:48
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crashanddie_RST38h: don't do websites anymore.23:48
crashanddie_ok, gotta go, or I'll miss train, have a good one people23:49
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