IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-04-24

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Guest0937_962how much time i need to wait after applying for maemo extra upload?00:04
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GeneralAntillesGuest0937_962, usually a day.00:05
GeneralAntillesIt's whenever X-Fade gets around to it.00:05
Guest0937_962usualy?00:05
GeneralAntillesand he's done for today.00:05
Guest0937_962ok so tomorow ok ok00:05
Guest0937_962TX GA00:05
Guest0937_962;)00:05
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eggs1235meh00:14
GeneralAntilleshem00:17
eggs1235do u mirror everfything00:18
eggs1235this beer is strong00:18
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eggs1235does static damage n8x000:21
johnxwhy do you ask?00:21
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GeneralAntillesOnly if you hit the board.00:21
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eggs1235i keep getting shocks on everythin i touch in the room i am in00:21
eggs1235its not normal00:22
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eggs1235how r u johnx00:22
johnxpretty good00:22
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zakarihi everybody00:33
Guysoft422hey, is there a way to get the f1-f4 keys on he nokia n810?00:34
eggs1235i thought some of the f keys were used for dpad etc00:35
GeneralAntilleseggs1235, no, -/+ and fullscreen00:35
GeneralAntillesMenu, Home.00:36
qwerty12_N800? dpad is mapped to your normal up, down etc00:36
eggs1235you know what i meant tho00:37
GeneralAntillesDrunken tableteering is dangerous.00:39
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eggs1235o_O im  not drunk yet00:39
Guysoft422i have another keyboard question: i seem to have lost my virtual keyboard, it wont start, what could have caused that?00:39
johnxGuySoft, using a usb or bluetooth keyboard?00:40
GeneralAntillesAlternatively, N810?00:40
eggs1235control panel option00:41
eggs1235n810 still allows vkb00:41
GeneralAntilleseggs1235, sure, but a broken slide detector (known issue) or a software stick (known issue) can cause trouble.00:42
eggs1235good point00:43
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's why I brought it up. :D00:43
eggs1235but the simplest scenario is its been unticked00:43
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eggs1235thumb keyboards of anytype are fiddly, i much prefer a desktop00:44
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eggs1235hmmm xchat is actibe app but hildon shows browser00:48
qwerty12_N800it's the drink00:48
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eggs1235the left hand side highlight and nobble are on browser00:49
eggs1235its not qwerty00:49
eggs1235ive got 2 browser windows open and xchat00:49
eggs1235even more curious00:50
eggs1235when i pressed fullscreen to save a pic lol it has now eaten hildon totally00:50
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qwerty12_N800it happens, nothing harmful :) (of course, it doesn't help that the browser is a focus whore)00:51
eggs1235theres no icons and yes im back in windows00:51
eggs1235:o ive lost all my sidebar00:51
eggs1235heh i can minimize chat but cant change app00:52
eggs1235i cant even move applets00:53
eggs1235or anything, time to sleep00:53
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guysoft42johnx, USB00:54
guysoft42hmm, i just found someone reporting the same problem i have: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2718800:55
guysoft42i carn't seem to post about it too because its in the 'old' area00:55
tank-manguysoft42, you dont need those control apps to change to host mode if youre using those otg usb adaptors01:00
guysoft42tank-man, i know. it used to work. .then it stoped01:00
guysoft42now each time i plug it in, it reboots01:00
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guysoft42tank-man, i also have on older system on at the internal 250MB memory, it works there too01:02
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tank-manhave you looked at maybe the output of "dmesg" ?01:05
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guysoft42tank-man, i am not sure how, it reboot about a second (even less) when i plug it in01:06
guysoft42tank-man, i need some way to log it to file before it reboots01:07
tank-manyou can ssh in from your desktop to see it01:07
guysoft42tank-man, that might be hard, i will need to reconfigure the wifi here..01:07
guysoft42tank-man, because the usb would be in use01:08
guysoft42tank-man, some bash scripts that echos the dmesg would do better01:08
qwerty12_N800GuySoft: grab the klogd & syslogd debs from the diablo sdk repo (would give you a link but am on tablet)01:08
qwerty12_N800kernel log gets dumped into /var/logs or smthing01:09
qwerty12_N800(with klogd)01:09
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guysoft42qwerty12_N800, tank-man its rebooting now. i tried writing : while true ; do; dmesg > dm ; done01:12
guysoft42then i pluged it in01:12
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guysoft42empty file. so i did the same with two septate dm files.. that should mean while its writing on one, the other would be saved :)01:15
guysoft42rebooting..01:15
guysoft42ok got it. let me paste it01:16
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tank-manyou can use ">>" to append the output to a file instead of overwriting it01:16
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guysoft42tank-man, that would flood the flash, my way is space-effective let me just pull the file and pastbin it01:17
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guysoft42there, here is the pastebin, and you can see the keyboard. i can also see something strange with the driver: http://pastebin.com/m1c326bdb01:20
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man_in_pdaok01:21
guysoft42/home/faheem/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source/drivers/usb/core/inode.c: creating file '002' is that the normal file for the driver?01:21
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, care to take a look? it might shed light on this01:22
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man_in_pdaso, is there a way of rearranging installed applications?01:23
guysoft42man_in_pda, you mean the menu? yes, in the settings under panels01:24
guysoft42tank-man, any idea?01:24
qwerty12_N800GuySoft: Sorry, but I wouldn't probably be able to tell you: logs aren't my speciality & I don't use USB host :/01:24
man_in_pdaah ty01:24
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lardmanguysoft42: are you booting with a hub attached or is that the built in one?01:25
guysoft42it must be built in.01:25
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: But I take it that's one of my kernel builds as it's saying /home/faheem - I dunno if that's one of my more stable ones...01:25
lardmanguysoft42: ok01:26
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guysoft42qwerty12_N800, ah i see you are faheem :)01:26
qwerty12_N800heh, yeah :)01:26
guysoft42lardman, i also have another keyboard that does the same thing..01:26
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guysoft42qwerty12_N800, maybe its your kernel? how can i check what kernel the old system (where it works) is running on?01:27
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* guysoft42 boots to the old system..01:27
guysoft42i guess ill just dmesg ther01:28
guysoft42there*01:28
lardmanso this is with a kb plugged in is it?01:28
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: oh, the kernel is the same for all booted systems01:28
lardmansorry I only came in half way through the explanation01:28
man_in_pdanow if only i could find a nice, easy way to get wpa-eap/pap support, i would be extremely happy with my new toy :)01:28
guysoft42ah sorry lardman do go on01:28
lardmanoh you're talking about a kb with a built in hub01:29
tank-manguysoft42, i dont see anything in the log you pasted that tells it to shutdown01:30
tank-mani dont know what is going on01:30
lardmanhave you disabled watchdog reboots?01:31
lardmanjust to see if it's the desktop which is taking it down01:31
guysoft42tank-man, well its not supposed to .. i just made another dmesg from  the old system, (where the keyboard works) .. lets see if there more lines01:31
man_in_pdahmm ... all the google bookmarks are google.com and i want them to be google.com.au :)01:31
guysoft42lardman, my guess is it might be the connection manager that now supports USB network..01:31
lardmanI think I might just be confusing matters as I don't know what's going on, I'll sit back and listen for a while01:31
lardman:)01:31
tank-manmy suggestion is use the normal kernel or bug the maintainer of the kernel you are using :)01:32
guysoft42lardman, you mean bug qwerty12_N800 ?01:32
guysoft42(dont i do that anyway? :P )01:32
lardmanI agree with tank-man of course, ask him about his odd taste in music while you're at it ;)01:33
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: hehe, I don't think it's the kernel if it works when booting from a different system on the same machine as the same kernel is always used :)01:34
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qwerty12_N800lardman: bah, you Bath people, stick to yer classical music :p01:35
lardmanqwerty12_N800: lol, I was just listening to some too01:36
lardmanqwerty12_N800: T.Rex now01:36
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lardmanbefore your (and my for that matter) time01:37
GeneralAntillesSo, question, should the intro paragraph be dropped? http://maemo.org/community/01:37
GeneralAntillesNone of the other sections have intro paragraphs like that.01:37
qwerty12_N800lardman: Come on, my time, maybe but yours? ;P01:38
lardmanqwerty12_N800: hey, I'm only 30 young man!01:38
qwerty12_N800oh, I thought you were double that :p01:39
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I think it's ok01:39
man_in_pdadude, you're ancient!01:39
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* lardman adds another reason to his list of "why to strangle qwerty"01:39
lardmanqwerty12_N800: look what you've started!01:39
lardmanprobably past most of your bed times! :D01:40
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lardmanand mine now that I'm getting old01:40
qwerty12_N800A 60 year old's killing habit? :p01:40
guysoft42ok! i think i got it01:40
guysoft42well, the problem not the answer01:40
guysoft42er - i got disconnection, can people see me here still01:41
guysoft42?01:41
lardmanqwerty12_N800: I'll get you with my walking stick01:41
lardmanguysoft42: yep01:41
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man_in_pdaqwerty12_N800, careful, or you won't live to see 3001:41
qwerty12_N800ok, now I'm scared :/01:41
b-man16lol01:41
guysoft42this is the old working dmesg: http://pastebin.com/m72f3e95501:41
guysoft42it has a line: [   92.187500] menelaus 1-0072: Setting voltage 'VMMC' to 3000 mV (reg 0x0a, val 0xb8)01:41
GeneralAntilleslardman, save it for the Summit. You can use your size and strength advantage to knock the snot out of him.01:42
guysoft42ah no. it exists in the old one too, but in different places..01:42
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: he'll fight back with psychological warefare like they did to Noriega01:43
* guysoft42 hopes before all #maemo developers kill themselves by beating each other up, they might have an answer to his problem01:43
lardmanqwerty12_N800: are you coming to the summit this year?01:45
lardmanspeaking of which, what about you Ryan....?01:45
GeneralAntillesPlanning on it.01:46
qwerty12_N800lardman: negative :)01:46
b-man16qwety12 can't because he's 1601:46
* b-man16 is too XP01:47
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12 better come too.01:47
b-man16*to01:47
GeneralAntillesOtherwise we're sending Jaffa, lardman, lcuk, and lbt to knock on your door.01:47
lardmanqwerty12_N800: I can act in loco parentis01:47
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lardmananyway you can get married and drive a tractor at 16 so why not come to the summit?01:50
GeneralAntilleslol01:50
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lardmanactually I think you can probably fly a plane at 16 too; driving cars at 17 and voting at 18 are passé01:51
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GeneralAntillesProbably younger than that01:51
GeneralAntillesState-side anyway.01:51
lardmanover here I think it's 1601:52
lardmanstill pretty young01:52
lardmancan't you guys drive at 16 in some states?01:52
johnx15 in some, IIRC01:52
lardmanbloody hell01:52
johnxbut yeah, 16 is basically the age for all states01:53
lardmangood thing there are no bends over there ;)01:53
lardmanjohnx: well in the US, Japan is just very narrow I imagine01:53
GeneralAntilles14 in some.01:53
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guysoft42here its 17..01:54
man_in_pdayay colours in xchat :P01:54
guysoft42man_in_pda, it only works for you01:54
* lardman now realises why no-one walks in the US; playstation generation are allowed to drive cars before puberty01:54
GeneralAntillesThe bad drivers really aren't the kids.01:54
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GeneralAntillesBad drivers are the old people with no reflexes or senses left01:55
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lardmando people drink-drive these days?01:55
johnxlardman, they're allowed to have puberty younger too01:55
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guysoft42speaking of drivers - can you please help me?!?!01:55
johnxlardman, only politicians and policemen01:55
GeneralAntillesand the middle-aged people who think they know what they're doing so couldn't possibly get in an accident.01:55
lardmanguysoft42: lol01:55
man_in_pdaof course. nothing works for anyone but me ;)01:55
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I hope you're not looking at me01:55
GeneralAntilleslardman, dunno, never seen you drive. :P01:56
lardmansideways and quickly01:56
GeneralAntillesWhat, got some sort of tuned up Supra? :P01:57
johnxguysoft42, what are you using to set host mode?01:57
lardmannah front-wheel drive, lift off oversteer all the way01:57
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GeneralAntillesHa01:57
johnxFWD. ugh.01:57
johnxI can barely stand AWD01:57
GeneralAntillesWorst. Thing. Ever.01:58
lardmanrwd is expensive over here01:58
GeneralAntillesMy mother got a Miata last month.01:58
johnxso don't buy new. :P01:58
GeneralAntillesFun car01:58
guysoft42johnx, i have the usb host app installed, but i am not using it to set anything01:58
lardmanah mx-501:58
guysoft42johnx, have you seen the dmesg output?01:58
GeneralAntillesAutomatic, though. :(01:59
johnxguysoft42, so you're trying to use a usb keyboard, but you're not setting host mode with anything?01:59
guysoft42johnx, yes.. works on the old system fine.02:00
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guysoft42i can also tell you that before the thing reboots the let lights up white, and there is a 'ding' of a reboot02:00
johnxwell, what kind of adapter are you using? have you tried setting host mode first? have you tried it without any card plugged in?02:00
lardmanI've got one of these, excuse Clarkson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvyVnutjJYA02:00
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GAN800I'm so tired of this piece of shit computer. :(02:01
guysoft42johnx, it does it in two i have, one i ordered from china, and the other one i soldered two female connectors together02:01
guysoft42both dont need any setting in the old system, both crash in the new one02:01
guysoft42its purely something software-related02:02
johnxok, well answer my other questions then02:02
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guysoft42johnx, ah, ill try the card idea02:02
johnxtry setting host mode too!02:02
guysoft42ok02:03
guysoft42did both, still reboots02:04
johnxno ideas. have you been playing with usb networking?02:04
guysoft42johnx, not in depth.. i really think that is the cause02:05
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guysoft42johnx, because i dont have that in my old system02:05
johnxyup. running into something similar here02:05
johnxbut it only happens when I've been trying to switch from one mode to another02:06
johnxI never get it on a fresh boot02:06
guysoft42you can recreate the bug??02:06
johnxnot reliably02:06
johnxyou have an n810 or n800?02:07
guysoft42well better than nothing.. here it happens all the time02:07
guysoft42N81002:07
johnxI worked around it here by removing *both* cards :>02:07
johnx<- n80002:07
guysoft42yay! i am now not the jabbering loony that claims bugs no one ever sees02:07
johnxhave you flashed a non-Nokia kernel?02:08
guysoft42ah! well welll guess what is solderd on my board..02:08
guysoft42yes.. i am using qwerty12_N800's02:08
johnxtry a nokia kernel02:08
johnxI haven't taken that step yet, but it would be interesting to know02:08
guysoft42um, if i flash it wont it stop the bootloader?02:09
johnxflash just the kernel02:09
johnxyou can use the flasher on the device itself02:09
guysoft42johnx, link how to do that?02:09
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, is this safe?02:09
johnxit's how Nokia does it for their SSU updates ;)02:10
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: sure02:10
guysoft42whats the command?02:10
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, what am i loosing that your kernel does/02:10
guysoft42?02:10
johnxI forgot where you store the kernel, but it's: flash-and-reboot02:11
johnxyou have to leave the kernel somewhere specific though02:11
johnxyou could read the flash-and-reboot script to tell you02:11
qwerty12_N800johnx: fiasco-flasher -f -k <image> works too :)02:11
johnxqwerty12_N800, right, as long as your usb works reliably ... :>02:12
qwerty12_N800johnx: flash & reboot script calls that program :)02:12
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johnxaaah, I thought you meant something from the desktop02:12
johnx<- not paying 100% attention, needs more coffee02:13
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: dunno, I've done a lot of zImages... If you wanna flash another kernel, http://trac.tspre.org/qwerty12/mer_kernel/mer_kernel_2.6.21-zImage_boot_from_initfs.tar is stable02:13
qwerty12_N800But try a nokia one first :)02:13
GeneralAntillesHe puts a different virus in each one.02:14
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, where do you place the flasher? and where do i get an image from?02:14
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: the flasher is shipped with diablo (fiasco-flasher as root) and apt-get install -reinstall kernel-diablo-flasher should place the original image on the filesystem02:16
qwerty12_N800s/-reinstall/--reinstall/02:16
infobotqwerty12_N800 meant: guysoft42: the flasher is shipped with diablo (fiasco-flasher as root) and apt-get install --reinstall kernel-diablo-flasher should place the original image on the filesystem02:16
man_in_pdaso, what's the easiest way to hit Tab using the real keyboard on a n810? :k02:17
man_in_pda* :)02:17
johnxctrl-i ?02:17
man_in_pdathat split the channel off in xchat02:18
guysoft42E: Command line option 'r' [from -reinstall] is not known.?02:19
guysoft42nm needed two --02:19
guysoft42catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com seems to not wor02:20
guysoft42work*02:20
johnxman_in_pda, I thought you meant in a terminal. oops02:20
man_in_pdait's ok02:20
lardmanguysoft42: that means reboot on the desktop version afaik02:20
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: eurgh, apt is meant to be patched to auth. to that server :(02:21
man_in_pdaneed to restart xchat anyway02:21
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, patched? you meen the red pill?02:23
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man_in_pdadamn, "shinshen sho" promised to be like mah-jong, and it's tile-matching02:23
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: no :(02:25
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guysoft42qwerty12_N800, so what?02:25
qwerty12_N800not sure as I can't think of another way to get it (barring extracting it from a fiasco image off the computer)02:26
lardmanhow old is the current kernel?02:28
lardmanhttps://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=665&release_id=1934 is one you could wget from July 2008, but that sounds a bit old02:29
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, should i wget 1.1.0?02:30
qwerty12_N800that seems a little too old02:30
lardmanI don't remember what kernel version that was02:30
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, where can i wget a diffrent one?02:31
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qwerty12_N800No idea, not for an original one02:31
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lardmanhang on, I'm sure I can find one02:32
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lardmanwhat version of the bin file are we on atm?02:33
guysoft42whey is everything here broken?! : http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.602:33
lardmanI have the kernel from DIABLO_5.2008.43-7 handy02:33
qwerty12_N80043-7 is latest iirc02:33
GeneralAntillesGuySoft, the latest release is 0.11. . . .02:34
lardmanok, let me upload it then02:34
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I think he was talking about my sbc decoder with included kernel02:34
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: because Mer is now on 0.11 perhaps with 0.12 being released very soon? :P02:34
GeneralAntilleslardman, re the wiki page02:34
lardmanah, ok02:35
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guysoft42how about?: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.11/mer-armel-n8x0-kernelstd-v0.11.zImage02:35
lardmanguysoft42: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/temp/zImage.DIABLO.5.43-702:36
man_in_pdais there a way to override the background colour of the input box and topic bar in xchat?02:36
qwerty12_N800man_in_pda: set by theme02:37
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man_in_pdadon't really want to change the system theme ...02:38
kcowolfb-man around by any chance?02:38
guysoft42ok, ready to flash to mer-armel-n8x0-kernelstd-v0.11.zImage02:39
johnxnote: I think that's the kernel I'm using02:40
guysoft42Nothing to flash.?02:40
johnxtry the diablo kernel that lardman linked just up above02:41
lardmanmy one was pristine from the NOLO02:41
guysoft42ok joelmaher02:41
guysoft42johnx, *02:42
lardmans/NOLO/FIASCO02:42
lardmanbbiam, have to vpn to work02:42
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kcowolfanyone managed to apt-get install ubuntu-desktop from b-man's instructions on the forum (Ubuntu on n810 2.2)?  Mine seems to reboot (maybe a crash) during the install02:43
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guysoft42fasco-flasher: not found?02:43
johnxmissed an i02:44
johnxkcowolf, might want to turn off watchdog reboot02:44
guysoft42flashed.. now i reboot?02:44
Pavlov-R02:44
johnxcorrect02:46
kcowolfso I'd need to get to R&D mode and disable it?  which one should I disable?02:49
lardman_ --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset02:51
kcowolfMy newbie question for today: Out of curiosity, since I'm installing this (Ubuntu for the 810) on an SD card, do I have to be using the tablet while I'm installing it, or could I be using any Linux box?02:52
guysoft42parasight, wrote reboot.. did the same i guess02:54
guysoft42booting now02:54
guysoft42rebooted :(02:54
guysoft42at least ill flash to the new Mer02:54
guysoft42is there a way to turn off the connection manager,, i really suspect it02:54
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guysoft42mer kernel reboots too02:56
guysoft42is there a way to disable the network manager?02:56
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Macerhm02:58
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guysoft42i am downloading Mer in the meantime. i have a spare mini-sd and the kernel now03:00
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guysoft42ill try remove the connection manager03:04
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johnxthat probably won't do what you want03:06
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man_in_pdawhat exactly is mer?03:10
johnxmer is taking the best open source parts of maemo (mostly the UI) and getting it working on a slim ubuntu base03:11
man_in_pdaeww03:11
guysoft42worth a shot03:11
johnxeww?03:11
man_in_pdaubuntu :P03:11
guysoft42mer is ubuntu based?!03:12
johnxyes03:12
man_in_pdahehe03:12
guysoft42why the heck not debian?03:12
johnxguysoft42, why debian vs ubuntu?03:12
johnxjust curious about your preconceptions03:12
man_in_pdabecause people think debian sucks for everyone but kernel hackers whereas ubuntu is for 2 yr old idiots?03:13
johnxanyways, the reasons for ubuntu go something like: they're 90% similar anyways, except that ubuntu has/had better support for upstart and it also has a solid 6 month release schedule03:14
johnxwhen you cut either ubuntu or debian down to the size we're working with they're almost exactly the same except for those two points (and of course version differences)03:14
man_in_pdapfft @ release schedule03:14
johnxman_in_pda, how many distros do you run?03:15
man_in_pdamore like scheduled breakages03:15
johnxs/run/manage/03:15
infobotjohnx meant: man_in_pda, how many distros do you manage?03:15
man_in_pdadebian unstable on about 5 boxen at home03:15
johnxand you're a debian maintainer?03:16
man_in_pdano03:16
guysoft42whats maemo-usb-control?03:16
johnxguysoft42, tool to enable host mode03:16
johnxman_in_pda, well, release schedules start to look a little nicer when you're trying to organize your releases based on an upstream distro03:16
guysoft42johnx, lets try removing it!03:17
johnxguysoft42, ok.03:17
guysoft42(yay?)03:17
man_in_pdashouldn't do that though03:17
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man_in_pdathe harder you try to stick to a release schedule the more likely you are to break stuff03:18
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man_in_pdaubuntu broke floppy support completely once03:19
johnxman_in_pda, it goes something like this: say maemo UI needs gtk version x.2 . Debian has x.1 and no one knows when the release that has x.2 will come out03:19
johnxmeanwhile ubuntu either has x.2 or we know when they'll have x.203:19
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johnxand don't tell me to follow debian unstable :)03:20
man_in_pdaso the solution is to nnot use debian stble releases03:20
johnxheh03:20
johnxI beat you to it03:20
man_in_pdafollow testing03:20
man_in_pda*testing*03:20
guysoft42btw, is there a Mer flashable to an mmc card?03:21
man_in_pdaless likely to break stuff than unstable and still keeps relatively  up-to-date03:21
johnxbasically it sounds like you want to volunteer to work on mer-on-debian and we'd love to have you :)03:21
man_in_pdahehe03:21
guysoft42well i have easy debian chroot03:22
johnxthere's some support for debian lenny and we'd love someone to help us finish it up. it sounds like you're passionate about this, so give us a hand :>03:22
johnxguysoft42, you can install mer to mmc card or internal flash03:22
man_in_pdayou fix my wpa-eap/pap problem and you've got a deal!03:22
guysoft42johnx, how? carnt i just dd it?03:22
johnxman_in_pda, does it work via /etc/network/interfaces and wpasupplicant? does it work with network-manager? if yes then it's already done03:23
johnxguysoft42, you don't want to dd it. you either need to flash it to your internal flash with mtd utils or untar it on your mmc/sd card03:23
guysoft42still reboots :(((03:24
man_in_pdajohnx, is there network-manager and wpa-supplicant packaged for maemo?03:24
guysoft42i removed connection manager, pc connectivity..03:24
johnxman_in_pda, nope. it's for mer. :>03:24
guysoft42johnx, are you using another language apart form english on your device?03:24
johnxguysoft42, nope03:24
man_in_pdaso how does that help me? :)03:24
johnxman_in_pda, you work on the debian support and you get working wireless and your favorite distro :D03:25
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johnxNokia's driver doesn't support Linux wext out of the box, so no wpasupplicant on maemo03:25
man_in_pdai got this thing to Just Work(TM)03:25
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johnxheh. you know you want to hack :)03:26
man_in_pdai don't really want to change the os03:26
johnxthen dual boot?03:26
johnxI got mine to just work as well so I could hack on my zaurus03:27
johnxI even resisted hacking on it for about a year or so03:27
man_in_pdawould likely be annoying. is there a neat howto?03:27
johnxjust run the mer installer it and it will install to sd card03:27
johnxgive you a nice bootmenu at the start03:27
johnxYou might want to wait for the .12 release coming in the next couple days03:27
man_in_pdai don't mind hacking but i want this pap thing fixed first03:28
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johnxman_in_pda, ask nokia why they didn't decide 1) open source their connection manager or 2) at least provide linux wireless extensions support in their wifi driver03:28
johnxwithout those it's pretty hard to do anything about the situation in maemo03:29
man_in_pdaand i'm getting sick of the background in xchat's input box03:29
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johnxdoes one of the bugs filed for it have a workaround?03:30
man_in_pdajohnx, yeah, would be a lot easier with wext and wpa-supplicant backend, which they really SHOULD have done ages ago03:31
man_in_pdathe pap problem or the xchat problem? :P03:31
johnxthe pap problem03:31
johnxas for xchat, are you using a dark theme or something?03:31
man_in_pdadark on light hurts my eyes in xchat03:32
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man_in_pdadue to all the other colours03:32
man_in_pdaso i've set the text box to light on dark03:33
man_in_pdabut input and topic boxen are still light background03:33
man_in_pdawith light text03:33
man_in_pdait's like touch-typing without the touch03:34
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man_in_pdaalso, i don't think anyone has assembled a complete pap auth workaround that uses maemo's connection manager03:36
guysoft42any other guesses why the keyborad is not working?03:36
guysoft42keyboard*03:36
man_in_pdawhich would be ideal  for me, although anything equally easy (once installed and configured) is fine by me03:37
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guysoft42johnx, any idea what our systems have in common that makes them show the bug?03:39
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johnxguysoft42, nokia's usb handling is a little buggy it seems03:43
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guysoft42johnx, it does work here in one place, but not on the other.. must be a reason03:46
joelmaherguysoft42: you mentioned my name03:47
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guysoft42joelmaher, ah sorry, ment johnx03:47
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joelmahernp03:47
guysoft42maybe its something with the storage03:48
guysoft42johnx, do you have your system on the internal flash?03:48
tank-manstill working on the keyboard problem ? :)03:49
tank-manhave you tried checking if other people using the same kernel are able to get usb keyboard working?03:50
guysoft42tableteer, yes.. and i have switch 3 kernels since. and johnx finds the same bug when putting mmc cards in his N800.. i have an N810 and carn't remove the internal flash, as you can imagine03:51
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johnxguysoft42, actually I get reboots when trying to use usb network device mode03:54
johnxhost mode works great, but I get the biggest problems when switching back and forth03:54
guysoft42strange, that works fine here03:54
lardman_night chaps03:57
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guysoft42johnx, how come netowrk does not work?03:59
johnxI don't know03:59
man_in_pdadoes "Use textbox colours and fonts" set the background of the input box for anyone using xchat?04:00
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guysoft42johnx, do you have easy choot?04:03
johnxnope04:03
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* guysoft42 really wants to solve this bug04:11
guysoft42can anyone else recreate this bug?04:12
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man_in_pdawell i like the handwriting mode :)04:29
GeneralAntillesNever used a Newton, have you?04:30
johnxGeneralAntilles, he probably hasn't even used a palm with grafiti 1 :)04:33
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man_in_pdahandwriting takes too long. back to tgyping04:44
man_in_pda*typing04:44
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lopzgn04:47
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guysoft42tank-man, no05:02
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fireunanyone use the powerpoint like openoffice app?05:09
man_in_pdaimpress?05:10
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fireunman_in_pda: yes?05:11
fireunis it compatible with powerpoint?05:13
KurtKrautfireun: I intend to develop an OpenOffice Impress remote controler for maemo.05:13
KurtKrautfireun: yes, it is. You can also try OpenOffice in your desktop to test and see by yourself compability. Just download it at www.openoffice.org05:13
fireunyes, I have openoffice, I have to make a slideshow to use in class, all they have is powerpoint05:14
fireunguess I'll just have to test it05:14
man_in_pdayeah05:16
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man_in_pdaonly problem i ever had with ppt exporter in OOo was fonts05:17
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luke-jrwow05:53
luke-jrI'm proud of my N81005:53
luke-jrit installed all 10 apps while I was gone05:53
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shubhambahetihi08:01
shubhambahetianybody ported camerabin ?08:01
shubhambahetianybody here08:01
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man_in_pdanope08:03
man_in_pdanot even you08:03
man_in_pdain fact, especially not you08:04
shubhambahetiyeah08:04
Macerhello08:06
MacerStskeeps: you around?08:06
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StskeepsMacer: yeah, but leaving in 508:10
Macerjust wanted to make sure you got it08:10
Stskeepswell, it's at the post office and picking it up today or tomorrow :)08:11
Maceroh. thought you were back already08:11
Stskeepsyeah, last evening08:11
Macerok. just let me know when you get it08:11
Stskeepsyep08:11
Macerjust want to make sure it made it there08:11
Stskeepswill do08:11
Macerok.. ttyl08:12
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RST38hmoo all08:16
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fuzzyDoes pidgin work with the maemo sdk for arm?08:48
johnx_you mean, will it run in the sdk?08:50
johnx_that's a firm maybe08:50
johnx_it runs on the device, but since it relies on the connection manager (I think) it might not behave in the SDK emulator thing08:51
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thuxmorning08:52
johnx_morning thux08:52
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JaffaMorning, all09:31
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Stskeepsmorning, Jaffa09:31
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johnx_the htc touch pro 2 looks impressively similar to an n810 ...09:44
Stskeepsjust shows nokia has been ahead for quite a while09:45
Stskeepswhich is why i think rx-51 will make an interesting splash09:45
johnx_ahead but running on the other side of the street :)09:45
johnx_or ahead but in a different race maybe...09:45
Stskeepsone of these days i'd like to sit down and talk history with the maemo people09:46
Stskeepsjust what decisions was made originally09:46
johnx_in some ways it seems like Nokia really does care about the long game and the big picture09:47
johnx_cause it certainly hasn't been about playign the short game...09:48
Stskeepsi have a pretty good idea where they're going09:49
Stskeepsespecially after considering some talks i had with a nokia research guy at a conference09:49
Stskeepsdid i tell you launchpad (the facists) refused our .po files cos of it being actual msgids, and not english strings?09:50
Stskeepslike, tana_fi_internet09:50
johnx_ah. I heard mumblings about that but didn't realize it was actually a human being who refused them09:50
johnx_I thought it was some technical limitation09:51
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Stskeepsafter a whole month09:51
Stskeeps'lo alextreme09:51
* johnx_ sighs09:51
Stskeepsjohnx_: anyway, claudius will head up the transifex stuff with maemo.org09:52
johnx_well, that's good at least09:52
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Stskeepshello v6sa09:52
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v6sayes?10:02
v6saStskeeps: yes?10:03
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Stskeepsjust saying hi :P10:03
v6sahaha10:03
v6sayou are?10:03
Stskeeps.. actually because i mistook this channel for #mer, but yeah :)10:04
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v6saAnybody knows why I can't listen to mp3 or ogg streams from Icecast server?10:11
v6sawith the Maemo player10:11
v6saI installed OGG support plugin10:11
v6saFor example any of these streams: http://v6sa.itcollege.ee:8500/10:11
v6saSCP streams seem to be working (Microsoft Multimedia Server?)10:12
Stskeepsdear god.. just got an e-mail on "Increase female libido" and cos i have read too many fremantle posts recently, i read it as "increase fremantle libido"10:15
johnx_O_o;10:15
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johnx_bad n800! stay away from my leg! stop that!10:15
* luke-jr tiptoes ouot.10:15
luke-jrout*10:15
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luke-jrjohnx_: I don't think you will have much luck in babies unless you change your plan drastically.10:23
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luke-jrnight10:23
johnx_O_o;10:24
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aquatixStskeeps: O_o10:24
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Stskeepsmorn rkirti10:33
rkirtimorning Stskeeps10:34
* rkirti is wondering about the set-up I need to be doing for the GSoC,all others are hosting their projects at garage (or so I assume), but they are doing real development ...10:35
Stskeepsgood question really.. is OE git-based or how was it?10:35
rkirtiyup, they shifted from monotone to git sometime back10:36
Stskeepsi have trouble with stuff like Mer too, as we aren't a traditional Maemo project - garage focuses on specific projects and packages10:36
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Stskeepswhereas we have 100+ bzr branches, heh10:37
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Stskeepsgave any thought to the copenhagen developer meeting btw? since you GSoCies get priority too10:37
rkirtiStskeeps: I spoke to VDVsx..he said I should be speaking to my mentor , as mentor -student pairs have more likelihood10:38
Stskeepsyeah10:38
Stskeepsflorian is .de based so it should be possible i guess10:38
Stskeeps(as far as i recall)10:38
* Stskeeps just drove through germany and poland yesterday10:39
Stskeeps14 hour drive, phew :P10:39
rkirtiI am not particularly sure if I should be applying, since I dont know much apart from OE. As I had said earlier, I would like to10:40
Stskeepswell, it's also for development of the maemo community - so10:40
rkirtibe involved, even if its over IRC. But I really doubt if my asking for sponsorship is justified10:40
Stskeepsand it's a good way to kickstart things with mentor and other people in the community, and networking10:40
Stskeepsyour job oppurtunities may certainly increase :)10:40
Stskeepsand i'll be there and hopefully some more Mer people as well10:41
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* rkirti shall speak to Florian about it.10:43
* Stskeeps ponders how many nokians will be there10:43
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Macerheh10:55
Maceri will hav eto drive 5 hours to cleveland today10:55
Macereurope must be interesting in that you can drive through many countries instead of like here where you just travel through states10:56
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Maceri guess you can drive through mexico but that would take days before you get to south america and go through one country every 2 hours10:57
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till-especially if you can get cheap fuel and other stuff right behind  the border11:07
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Macertill-: heh. well.. in the US it is state by state11:12
Maceryou can find cheaper fuel just outside the state border11:12
till-here it's mostly the same11:14
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till-a great thing is schengen i think, traveling without passport control11:15
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till-unless you are from a non-schengen country11:16
glassMacer: theres some downsides to it too11:17
glassMacer: start from germany and head straight east and you'll notice them11:17
glasssooner or later11:17
till-:)11:18
Macerhahha11:18
Macerlike euro trip ? :)11:18
Macer"A nickel?? *SLAP* I quit.. I open my own hotel now!"11:18
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glassMacer: eurotrip didn't go toooooooo much east :D11:20
glassthey'd have had visa probs and such if they had11:21
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X-FadeHmm too bad about last.fm.11:40
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johnx_yeah, and a shame about pandora radio too11:40
aquatixX-Fade: hm?11:41
* aquatix did miss something?11:41
johnx_mumble, mumble, RIAA will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes ...11:41
X-FadeFree is always a bad business model to start of with.11:41
X-FadeBut yeah..11:41
X-Fadeaquatix: No longer free.11:41
X-Fadeaquatix: Every free account gets 30 songs and then you have to pay..11:42
dnearyHi11:43
dnearyX-Fade: In your mind, what's the difference between "Get involved" and "Contribute"?11:43
dneary(same question to everyone)11:43
dnearyX-Fade: A shame, and yet €3 per month isn't a lot11:43
dnearyI will probably sign up11:44
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X-FadeInvolved in a project is more than contributing?11:44
dnearyX-Fade: http://maemo.org/community11:44
X-Fadedneary: Yeah, it is not too much.11:44
glassinvolved might mean just throwing your hands in the air generally doing nothing11:44
dneary"Get involved" is a 404 right now11:44
X-Fadedneary: But I think it will put off a lot of people and thus killing the service?11:44
aquatixX-Fade: ah11:44
dnearyBut I'm trying to think what information you'd put there that isn't already in http://maemo.org/community/contribute11:45
dnearyX-Fade: Perhaps11:45
dnearyX-Fade: I think that people are ready to pay not much money for a valuable service11:45
X-Fadedneary: Yeah, but all data is supplied by their users?11:46
dnearySee Flickr, Basecamp, etc.11:46
glassi pay for flickr11:46
X-Fadedneary: Less users => less acurate?11:46
glassit's convinient11:46
dnearyX-Fade: Perhaps11:46
dnearyglass: I don't11:46
dnearyBut I have just recently hit all their limits (albums, photo uploads in a day, and total uploads)11:47
dnearySo I'm considering upgrading11:47
glassyep not having limits greatly improves it's usage11:47
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X-Fadedneary: Hmm another thing about that contribute page: Why are the links in the text not orange :)11:48
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dnearyX-Fade: Because you've clicked on them already11:50
X-Fadedneary: No, was specified in css.11:50
dnearyX-Fade: I pointed this out to Neithan11:50
dnearyShouldn't have been11:50
X-Fadedneary: Should be better now ;)11:50
X-Fadedneary: because of div class="sections"11:51
X-Fadedneary: I think that whole div can just go.11:51
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dnearyIt was supposed to be a <ul>11:52
X-Fadedneary: No higher up..11:53
dnearyX-Fade: Error trying to edit a page: Fatal error: Call to a member function get_array() on a non-object in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/helper/_styleloader.php(637) : eval()'d code on line 411:53
X-Fadedneary: Does it save it anyway?11:53
dnearyI don't get the form11:53
dnearyThis isn't when I save11:54
dnearyIt's before I get a chance to edit11:54
X-Fadewhich page?11:55
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lardmanmorning all12:22
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RST38hX-Fade: There appears to be a problem with karma again12:27
X-FadeRST38h: What's up?12:27
RST38hX-Fade: my profile does not show itt thanks12:27
RST38hProbably does not show some other stuff because the numbers do not add up12:28
dnearyX-Fade: Sorry - community/contribute12:31
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X-FadeRST38h: The karma value is correct indeed. The thanks just isn't displayed.12:34
X-FadeRST38h: Which is weird.12:34
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Gwlhi, we are having a problem creating a new maemo garage project.. after submitting it says "Please describe your Registration Purpose in a more comprehensive manner"12:41
X-FadeGwl: Is your text very short?12:42
Gwlthe description should certainly be specific enough.. is there some hard word count or is this just some weird bug?12:42
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X-Fadethopiekar: Hi12:43
thopiekarhi X-Fade :)12:43
thopiekarhi all :P12:43
X-Fadethopiekar: Yesterday we removed the libasound you uploaded, because that is a system lib.12:44
X-Fadethopiekar: And installing breaks people's osso-softare-version.12:44
thopiekaraah ok... I just uploaded it and upgraded it on my device.. and mine was breaked.. I just wanted to inform you about that but nobody replied..12:45
thopiekar:|12:45
mikkov_system packages should be automatically rejected12:46
X-Fademikkov_: Yeah, we would need to check against a list.12:46
thopiekaror special limitations to upload it..12:47
thopiekarhow is the path called where the desktop files for the menu are stored?12:47
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thopiekarI need it to know how the command is called to open "navicore".. a user on n800.de has trouble using it on os2006 @ N770..12:55
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thopiekarso I want to look into the *.desktop file..12:55
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RST38hAnyone can enlighten me on how to change total memory size in Linux kernel?13:03
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lardmanhmm, username string doesn't fit in the box at the top of maemo.org13:14
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lardmanwhoa, my profile page is broken too13:14
lardmanand my discussion is still very low13:14
lardmanjust checked as RST38h said something about it13:15
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RST38hthe profile prblems have been present before, in the old design13:15
lardmanis this knackered for everyone else too? Is this a known issue?: http://maemo.org/profile/view/lardman/13:15
RST38hwith some fields not showing up13:15
lardmanI've just got lots of code shown13:15
X-Fadelardman: I'm debugging it ;)13:17
X-Fadelardman: That is why you see data ;)13:17
lardmanah I see13:17
lardmansee if you can debug why I still don;t get much karma for mailing list posts while you're at it ;)13:17
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X-FadeRST38h: your problem has been fixed.13:26
RST38hX-Fade: thanks =)13:27
lardmango X-Fade, you're on a roll :)13:27
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* lardman considers more coffee to offset the late night13:30
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StskeepsJaffa: RSS on mer page is messing up13:46
Stskeepsit double shows the messages13:46
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thopiekarX-Fade: PING13:57
X-Fadethopiekar: yep13:57
thopiekardo you have some connections to the admins of forum.nokia.com?13:58
X-Fadethopiekar: Not directly no.13:59
X-Fadethopiekar: What's up?13:59
thopiekarI registered myself on the site and typed in the wrong email.. so my login name is now not available..13:59
X-Fadethopiekar: Ouch ;)14:00
thopiekarand I just cant find any email-address on the site to get in contact with them14:00
thopiekar:|14:00
StskeepsX-Fade: btw, claudius henrichs will be working on proposals on how we can start playing with Transifex & Mer (with the shared strings with Maemo initially, hopefully using fremantle beta strings as a offset) and maemo.org14:01
Stskeeps(he's heading up our localization area)14:01
thopiekar-.-' I found a formular to contact them but I need to login..14:03
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StskeepsX-Fade: and i assume those proposals would be best to push through maemo.org sprint process and such?14:06
thopiekarlol.. the "request-a-new-password" side says that the user "thopiekar" isn't available in the db.. and on the other side its not possible to re-register.. stupid forum :|14:06
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thuxis it nokia's forum?14:07
thopiekaryes14:07
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jaggulihi is there a way to install *.install files from the terminal14:08
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thopiekarI just typed in the wrong email at the first time.. and I can't re-register, login and get in contact with the admins of the site..14:08
roopefor the idle speculation theme, i've got only one thing to add: http://tinyurl.com/c2dr7m14:08
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thopiekarthux: are you a member of nokia's forum?14:09
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Stskeepsroope: they're attachable to n8x0s, maybe :>14:09
iListenUWhere can be problem? here's screen: http://parduoduv.puslapiai.lt/ (in top)? What i need to do to solve it??14:09
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Stskeepsyes, leave without getting a answer14:10
Stskeepsor spamming, lovely14:10
thuxthopiekar: not sure :) but i pinged one nokia's admins if he knows whaat can be done14:10
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thopiekarthux: great! thanks!14:11
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thopiekarbtw. is it possible to control these "usb missile launchers" with a tablet?14:12
thopiekar(driver)14:12
Stskeepsanything's possible14:12
Stskeeps:P14:12
thopiekar;P14:12
* thopiekar is thinking about making a "usb missile launchers"-war at school :D14:13
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thopiekarStskeeps: what about these rocket launchers with webcams?14:16
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thopiekarhttp://tinyurl.com/d97sm414:16
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thuxthopiekar: you can't login to forum now?14:19
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Whits1hello14:21
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thopiekarthux: no14:22
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thopiekarwhats the name of the admin @ freenode?14:23
thopiekar^ thux14:24
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Whits1i do have a little issue here, i try to install cairo 1.8.6 in my scratchbox with maemo installed. Well first the configuration complains about a old version of pixman <0.12.0, so i downloaded 0.15.0, and installed it (its now in /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/). But even now the cairo config complains about the version...14:24
Whits1any idea?14:24
Whits1is there a "ready to use" scratchbox package of cairo 1,8,6 or 1,8,414:25
lardmanthopiekar: does it do automatic tracking?14:25
lardmanI'm sure it could be made to anyway, sounds fun14:26
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thopiekarno manual.. I don't have one but i think it should be programable.. somethink like motion detection should be useful..14:27
thopiekar:)14:27
lardmanpymissle14:27
lardmanpymissile even14:27
thopiekarthe one without webcams could be enough...14:28
lardmanhttp://code.google.com/p/pymissile/14:28
thopiekarwe could use the tablets webcams then..14:28
lardmanyeah, could always attach a separate webcam14:28
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lardmanI wonder if I could program it to hunt and destroy the wasps in my office...14:29
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thuxi like maemo sudser is it possible to set pc ubuntu sudo same way?14:30
lardmansomeone's just done that using a laser to zap mozzies14:30
thopiekarbut these usb launchers work on linux, right? in the descriptions there is just win-os's in the list..14:30
radicis the softwarekeyboard not listed in /dev?14:30
thopiekarthux: yes..14:30
lardmanthopiekar: see pymissile14:31
thopiekarjust add yourself to the group 'root'..14:31
thopiekarlardman: k14:31
thopiekarthux: .. and  .. mom plz14:31
thuxthopiekar: thanks i tried sudoers lines without luck14:32
Stskeepsradic: no, it's not a input device like that14:32
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thopiekaradd to the end of the sudoers file in /etc/ : <%root ALL=NOPASSWD:ALL>14:32
thopiekarwithout < and >14:32
thuxthanks14:33
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thopiekarthux: np14:33
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radicStskeeps: how can I log all typed stuff withe the softwarekeyboard to a file?14:34
Stskeepsradic: no clue. hack hildon input method? :P14:34
Stskeepsit's OSS, most of it14:35
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radichm14:35
radicStskeeps: can the unrealircd compiled statisticly?14:36
Stskeepsradic: what's unrealircd? :P14:37
radic-s14:37
thopiekarit seems that radic is working on a input-logger trojaner for nokia tablets :P14:38
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thopiekarlardman: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-593039372458791146214:41
thopiekar:P14:41
lardmannice :)14:44
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lardmanlooks a bit glitchy, I wonder if that;'s the programming team for the US ICBM shield project? ;)14:44
Stskeepssame technology, heh14:45
lardmanI'm tempted, just too damn busy atm and if I get one I'll probably forget about it14:46
lardmanI wonder if a usb pellet gun exists, that would be pretty cool14:46
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X-FadeStskeeps: Although community translations are on the Harmattan roadmap, we can probably test that earlier ;)15:03
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Macerlol15:16
Macerjust have to love the old star trek15:16
aquatixoriginal series?15:17
Maceryeah15:17
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Maceri'm watching the one where the civilization is time accelerated15:17
Macerwell ... the 5 people15:18
Macerheh15:18
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Macerthe actors are trying to hold still but you can see them shaking... then they have the cheesy cheap hollywood sets :)15:19
aquatix:)15:23
GeneralAntillesdneary, ping?15:23
aquatixback then it was about state-of-the-art15:23
aquatixMacer: i love those sets15:24
aquatixthey are so obviously cardboard and paint15:24
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: pong15:27
GeneralAntillesdneary, I'm thinking not only are the Hot/Fresh images slightly confusing, but they take up too much vertical space.15:27
Maceraquatix: kirk was fighting one off with a pillow15:28
dnearyGeneralAntilles: They certainly *appear* to15:28
Macerhaha15:28
Macerafter having sex with the accelerated alien.. they cut to a scene where he is putting his boots back on15:29
GeneralAntillesI also think we have way too much whitespace at the top.15:29
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GeneralAntillesActually, it seems like we could remove the <h1>'s at the top of most pages to help with that.15:30
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mgedminwow, look at the new maemo.org15:31
* thopiekar knows why root is needed to control a usb-rocket-launcher with pymissile..15:33
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mgedminsecurity reasons15:37
mgedminyou don't want an arbitrary user to launch ICBMs and start a world war by mistake15:37
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aquatixMacer: :)15:38
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mgedminhm, maemo.org logins do not appear to work15:45
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mgedminthe page doesn't redirect me to the https url when I press the [go] button15:46
mgedminif I go to https manually, I'm logged in15:47
woglindemged,om file a bug?15:47
GeneralAntillesSomebody already did.15:47
woglinde*g*15:47
GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=436615:47
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GeneralAntillesdneary, X-Fade, what do you think about killing the intro paragraph? http://maemo.org/community/15:48
Macerwell15:49
Macerhere goes.. tiem to drive for 5 hours to cleveland :)15:49
Macerblah15:49
Maceri will let rush hour die down a little more15:49
dnearyGeneralAntilles: I like it15:49
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: You think it's unnecessary?15:49
GeneralAntillesdneary, then I think we need similar intro paragraphs for support/, development/ and the wiki.15:49
GeneralAntillesYeah, I don't really see much purpose in it.15:50
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: The problem with these texts is that they are only valuable to the user the first time.15:51
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: After that they get old.15:52
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But for a new user it can give a better understanding.15:52
GeneralAntillesThere are an awful lot of pages that need to be killed15:52
* mgedmin looks around for a spare flamethrower for GeneralAntilles15:53
RST38hmenu at the right needs to be killed on some pages15:54
RST38hif you already have a menu at the page, the second menu just adds to the mess15:54
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aquatixooh, new maemo.org is shiny15:57
aquatixi guess you guys already got the report `font in login boxes too big'?15:57
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GeneralAntillesHehe, anybody want to place a bet on when they think everybody will finally have rolled around to the website. ;)15:58
RST38haquatix: wazd has done a thorough review of fonts, he has found 6 (?) different font sizes on a single page15:58
aquatixouch15:58
RST38h#define roll around15:58
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GeneralAntillesvisit and see the new style15:58
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* aquatix generally just reads the rss feed15:59
RST38hah, that should be easy to check by looking at login log =)15:59
aquatixbut i saw notions of the new design going live here15:59
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mgedminsame here16:00
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guysoft42lardman|away, johnx_  hey, i opened a bug about the keyboard, with all the data i can think of. So id be happy if you take a look: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=437416:26
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StskeepsMacer: works just fine and it arrived safely16:36
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radic_Stskeeps: my n800 is to quiet, is there a way to change that?16:39
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mgedminplug in a louder external speaker ;)16:40
mgedminin more practical terms, the nokias have two volume controls: one global for the system and a separate one for the media player16:41
mgedminset both to 100% to get maximum volume16:41
v6saanybody has noticed that there is not enough RAM on N810 to run even basic stuff16:41
v6sa?16:41
mgedminit won't be very loud anyway16:41
mgedminv6sa: no16:41
mgedmindepends on your definition of "basic stuff"16:42
v6sabrowser + music player16:42
v6saI see 96M active16:42
mgedminheh16:42
radic_mgedmin: i did that in mediabox, but it's to quiet16:42
mgedminthe N810 does not have enough RAM to run a browser, yes16:42
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v6sahaha16:42
mgedminor at least if you want more than one page open16:42
v6saany suggestions?16:42
mgedminor a page that actually uses images16:42
v6saalternative browser?16:42
X-Fadev6sa: Add swap?16:42
mgedminlaptop16:42
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v6sahaha16:42
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mgedminlinks in an xterm would work very well16:42
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mgedminvisit more modest websites16:43
v6safacebook crashes basically16:43
v6sagmail is okay only in html mode16:43
mgedmingoogle reader is usable (barely)16:43
mgedminand I have a swap partition16:43
v6same too16:43
v6sausing web is painful16:43
v6saI would say that this device should have *at least* 256MB of RAM16:43
v6sa512MB would be better16:43
Stskeepsradic_: i can recommend heavy rock16:44
mgedmina device with more RAM would be better, yes16:44
mgedminbut a device with a shorter battery life would be worse16:44
Stskeepsv6sa: 256 will be just fine, trust on that16:44
radic_what are the differences between n800 and n810?16:44
v6sa128MB is not enough anyways16:44
X-FadeBut adding swap really helps.16:44
Stskeepsyes, it is, if you use it wisely :P16:44
mgedmin5 hours is not enough either16:44
radic_Stskeeps: i listen to hardcore16:44
mgedminradic_: the difference is 10 :)16:45
mgedminbasically, hardware keyboard, no fm radio, one minisd slot instead of two full-size sd slots, builtin 2gb flash16:45
mgedminnon-rotating webcam16:46
v6saany chance of using some webkit based browser?16:46
mgedminthere were alternative browsers for maemo, but none of them usable16:47
v6sahaha16:47
v6sakonqueror from kde?16:47
mgedminhaven't tried that one16:47
GeneralAntillesv6sa, 256MB wasn't feasible in 2007.16:48
v6saI get 5megabytes reading speed on internal mmc/sd16:48
v6sais this normal?16:48
radic_mgedmin: ok, i like the n800 more :)16:48
mgedminfennec is kinda nice from the user interface perspective, but current betas aren't fast enough and use too much ram16:48
v6sa5megabytes/s16:48
mgedminradic_: that's what I thought before I bought a n81016:48
GeneralAntillesv6sa, 256MB only became an option last year.16:48
v6sayeah I see16:48
mgedminoh, I forgot -- the n810 also has a built-in GPS16:48
mgedminwhich is rarely useful16:48
v6sawhat about the speed of internal memory card?16:49
mgedminthe hardware kb is nice16:49
v6sa5megabytes/s is normal?16:49
* mgedmin shrugs16:49
mgedminI seek capacity, not speed, from my storage devices16:49
GeneralAntillesv6sa, depends on your card.16:49
mgedminwhich is perhaps a mistake16:49
GeneralAntillesand where are you copying from.16:49
v6saI am talking about INTERNAL card16:49
mgedmin"internal" -- he probably mean the n810's built-in one16:49
v6sayees16:49
radic_mgedmin: i've a external gps reciver16:49
mgedminv6sa: the n810 had two sd slots, one was called "internal", the other "external"16:49
mgedminyour question could be interpreted as "what's the speed of the card in the internal slot"16:50
v6sayes I am talking about the built-in one16:50
v6sayees16:50
mgedminsorry!16:50
v6sa:D16:50
mgedminv6sa: the *n800* had two sd slots, one was called "internal", the other "external"16:50
v6saI have n81016:50
mgedminthe user interface is the same for both n810 and 80016:50
mgedminso the meaning of "internal sd card" could be misunderstood16:50
mgedminanyway, never measured any speeds16:51
radic_i bought my n800 in jun 200716:51
mgedminradic_: for me the n810 is better purely from the aesthetical perspective, plus the hardware keyboard is actually nice and very useful16:51
mgedminI was a big virtual kb fan earlier16:51
radic_mgedmin: i need full sized sd-slots16:52
mgedminwhy am I saying that to you?16:52
mgedminit was v6sa who first asked about differences between n800 and n81016:52
mgedminirc conversations are hard to keep track of16:53
radic_lol16:53
v6sahaha16:53
mgedminno, it was you16:53
* mgedmin bangs head16:54
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radic_i can track it withe using xchat on my n80016:54
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mgedminthis is why I usually just lurk and ignore conversations :)16:54
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mgedminI have a wishlist for xchat: when I hold my mouse over a nickname, fade out all the messages except those that are either from this nick or mention it16:54
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mgedminsort of /lastlog, but in the window, and without moving text around16:54
mgedminand "holding mouse" is bad UI16:55
ameng1Any news about the next genaration n8XX?16:55
mgedminmaybe something like "ctrl-click" would be better16:55
v6saany experience with standard debian apps on n8xx?16:55
v6salike KDE and stuff?16:56
radic_why was the capslock removed from the softwarekeyboard?16:56
v6saah and how can you type @ with the hardware keyboard???16:57
mgedminfn+something, iirc16:59
mgedminradic_: tap-and-hold shift16:59
mgedminfn-d in the US variant16:59
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radic_TEST16:59
mgedminFAIL16:59
radic_wow16:59
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GeneralAntillesv6sa:17:04
GeneralAntilles~rx-5117:04
infobothmm... rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html17:04
v6saeh?17:04
GeneralAntillesJust read it.17:04
v6saany information about how much RAM it will have?17:06
GeneralAntilles256MB is a safe bet17:06
v6sathank god17:07
v6saaltough I would boldly suggest 512MB17:07
v6saRAM chips are really cheap these days17:07
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v6saany information about when this is going to be released?17:08
v6saavailible for buying?17:08
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GeneralAntillesNot they aren't.17:08
v6saeh?17:08
GeneralAntillesRAM is cheap for desktops and laptops with RAM chips the size of half the tablet.17:08
GeneralAntilless/Not/No/17:09
v6sayeah right17:09
v6sawhat about release date17:09
GeneralAntillesRAM is NOT cheap when you're putting it in with some amount of NAND on a PoP on a little 12mmx12mm package.17:09
v6sayesyes17:09
GeneralAntillesRAM is also not cheap on battery.17:10
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v6sarelease date??17:11
GeneralAntillesIt's not even been announced.17:11
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v6sa:P17:11
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GeneralAntilles3 months +/- 2 months is a safe bet, though.17:12
v6saokay17:12
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GAN800Hmm, I wonder if I could hook up Netflix streaming to the HAVA.17:14
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Stskeepshuh.17:35
Stskeepswhy does n800 service manual say "vibra motor"17:35
X-FadeHeh ;)17:36
X-FadeSolder one on yourself?17:36
mgedmindoes it say anything about sim cards? :)17:38
lopzhola17:39
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Stskeepsdamnit17:46
Stskeepsproblem isn't LCD connector17:46
qwerty12display itself?17:47
Stskeepsinteresting, the touch screen doesn't fit the entire touchscreen, heh17:47
jdapenahi17:48
Stskeepslike, display doesn't fit entire ts17:48
jdapenaany garage admin available?17:48
RST38hAnyone knows how I can create an ITT poll?17:48
RST38hIs there a howto?17:48
X-Fadejdapena: yep17:48
StskeepsRST38h: "add a poll to this post"17:48
RST38hSts: where is it?17:48
qwerty12Above the "Submit new thread" button in the full reply page17:49
qwerty12s/full reply/start new thread/17:49
infobotqwerty12 meant: Above the "Submit new thread" button in the start new thread page17:49
RST38hok17:49
RST38hhmm I do not see it17:49
RST38hNo I do not have it17:50
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GeneralAntillesbergie!17:50
GeneralAntillesGot my screenshot? :D17:50
bergieah, sorry17:51
bergieI'm on my way out right now, but I'll see what I can do over the weekend17:51
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igagisHi17:54
igagisdoes anybody know if it is possible to get device ID from application? Is there any API for that?17:55
igagisI suppose device ID is the same as wlan MAC address17:55
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hint btw, if you can find pointer calibrations, it usually has touchscreen IDs17:56
Stskeepsi have a ls041yd3 for instance17:57
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igagisAny way to get wlan ID?17:58
Stskeepsigagis: ifconfig wlan0? has it? :P17:58
igagisStskeeps: probably yes17:58
Stskeepshack that output up? :P or make a syscall to get the info17:59
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igagisok, thanks for idea, will try to look at that18:00
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* man_in_ltop waves18:23
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man_in_ltopis there a word processor for maemo? i read somewhere it had abiword but i can't find it in the apps list18:24
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GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras-devel18:27
GeneralAntilles~extras18:27
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras18:27
* Stskeeps grrs. not lcd connector18:27
Stskeepsbetter not be the screen.18:27
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man_in_ltopthanks18:28
w0othi, can someone help me with getting ubuntu jaunty 2.2 running on a nokia n810?18:29
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w0otanyone?18:31
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RST38hHmm Viliv S5 now like totally out already18:37
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RST38h"Considered 4 hours [battery life] to be decent"18:38
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man_in_ltopyay, abiword18:54
man_in_ltopgnite18:54
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* TheFatal con todo el lag19:05
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jaggulihi is there a way to install *.install files from the terminal .... anyone19:15
GeneralAntillesdbus, probably.19:15
GeneralAntillesAlternatively you could extract the package name and just apt-get install that.19:16
jagguliGeneralAntilles: but i need to add the repos19:16
GeneralAntillesOr that, too.19:16
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jagguliGeneralAntilles: anyidea whats the name of the application manager comand :)19:18
GeneralAntilleshildon-application-manager19:18
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jagguliGeneralAntilles: nope that dont take any params ...19:19
GeneralAntillesThus my dbus suggestion.19:19
wjtintrospect the app manager!19:20
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jagguliGeneralAntilles: introspect success ... but failed to install bzr19:20
qwerty12jagguli: dbus-send --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.hildon_application_manager /com/nokia/hildon_application_manager com.nokia.hildon_application_manager.mime_open string:"file:///location/to/.deb"19:20
jaggulithe app manager has an option to install from file but it failed for the bzr install file ... probably the file is corrupt .. :)19:21
jaggulithanks GeneralAntilles :)19:22
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luke-jrWhere to find gpsdriver_0.5.10_armel.deb ?19:35
Stskeepsclosed source19:35
Stskeepsapt-cache show should show you though19:35
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luke-jrStskeeps: I mean the .deb file even19:58
luke-jrStskeeps: the repository it seems to come from is password-locked19:58
luke-jr:/19:58
Stskeepsyeah, apt on tablet auths towards it19:58
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lauri_nick v6sa20:17
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v6sahaha20:17
v6saI am idiot20:18
slonopotamushehe20:18
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radic_Stskeeps: is there a port of wireshark available?20:26
Stskeepsno clue20:26
Stskeepsin Mer, probably, Maemo, no idea20:26
slonopotamuserr20:28
slonopotamusmaemo wifi doesn't have wireless extensions?20:28
Stskeepscorrect20:28
Stskeepsor at least, not new ones20:28
qwerty12It's why cx3110x is patch to my knowledge20:28
qwerty12+ed20:28
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luke-jrslonopotamus: mine does?20:30
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Stskeeps'lo aladds20:47
aladdshi :-)20:48
Stskeepshow goes?20:48
aladdsnot bad, not bad20:48
aladdsbeen trying to get my N810 to tether to my old K750i20:48
Stskeepsshould be easy20:48
Stskeepsi have a k610i20:48
Stskeepsit even does bluetooth PAN20:48
aladdsshould I use PAN rather than the usual method?20:49
Stskeepsboth should work20:49
aladdshmm20:49
* Stskeeps had it working without issue20:49
aladdsit probably doesn't because of having an odd provider20:49
aladds(Blyk)20:49
aladdswho I have settings for20:50
aladdsbut it fails20:50
Stskeepsyou have the MMS settings and crap on the k750i too?20:50
aladdsyeah20:50
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aladdsK750i works fine20:50
aladdsthat does internet, MMS etc.20:50
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Stskeepshmm20:51
Stskeepsweird20:51
aladdsbut the N810 won't have any of it...20:51
Stskeepstry PAN and see how it goes20:51
Stskeepsi really love my k610i .. i can tether at bluetooth and through USB simultaneously20:51
aladdsshall do20:51
aladdsnice20:51
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aladdscool20:52
Stskeepsi have to try if i can tether two tablets to one phone, too :P20:52
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aladdswell the reason i use that (and not my E61i, which has a nice qwerty keyboard and uses the same batteries as the N810) is because with Blyk I get ?15 free credit a month20:53
aladdsi also want to boot from internal (or external, I do have a 4GB Class 4 card) SD20:54
aladdsbecause i hate running out of space :P20:55
aladdswould the 4GB Class 4 be faster than internal?20:55
aladdscould i use RAID? :P20:56
aladdsit's wierd how it supports HID21:00
Stskeepsit has a Remote Control feature21:00
Stskeepsprobably21:00
aladdsi can control the tablet from my phone21:00
qwerty12_N800In Mer?21:00
aladdsnah, OS200821:00
aladdsbut Mer would technically work?21:00
qwerty12_N800My w810 does so in mer :)21:01
qwerty12_N800But not in os2008 :/21:01
aladdsi've not tried Mer yet, I shall though, looks fun21:01
aladdsno sound is a bit of a show-stopper though :(21:02
Stskeepsyour 770 contributions are in there, for sure :)21:02
Stskeepsaladds: oh, we got sound working but someone needs to get pulseaudio not segmentation faulting21:02
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aladdsah21:02
aladdscool :)21:02
Stskeepsfeel free to play :P21:02
Stskeeps0.12 comes out monday21:03
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aladdsi'll wait for that then ;-)21:05
aladdsPAN setup looks like a pain... :(21:05
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* Stskeeps should test Mer and PAN .. hmm21:07
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aladdsok, so if i know i need to connect to the internet via GPRS and I have a proxy server21:14
aladds(given)21:14
aladdsi put the proxy in the advanced bit under http, yes?21:14
Stskeepsi guess21:14
aladdshmm21:15
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aladdsgrr21:25
aladdsit's like it doesn't even try21:25
aladdsjust says failed21:25
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JaffaStskeeps: looking into it21:44
woglindehi jaffa21:44
StskeepsJaffa: ta21:44
JaffaStskeeps: sodding Jaiku RSS format keeps changing21:45
Stskeepsyeah.. i'm pondering a new way :P21:46
Stskeepsreally tired of jaiku by nw21:46
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thpwhere can I find the .install files for the maemo-extras repository, so I can link my apps on maemo.org to the correct .install?21:50
Stskeeps'lo thp, how goes?21:51
Stskeepsand21:51
Stskeeps~extras21:51
infobothmm... extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras21:51
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JaffaStskeeps: should be fixed, I think21:52
Stskeepsta21:53
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thpStskeeps: thanks, but i was looking for the .install for tennix in http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/install/ - are the files there not auto-generated?21:53
Stskeepsah, those21:53
Stskeepsthat's a good question, X-Fade ?21:53
Jaffathp: AIUI, the autobuilder/promotion interface does them automatically21:55
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slonopotamus_what the crap is that on maemo.org?21:56
slonopotamus_have you ever tried to open it from tablet?21:56
thpJaffa: ok, so i'll wait until tomorrow and then contact X-Fade if the files there still do not appear (i have promoted the package to extras from -devel earlier today)21:56
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lardmaneveing all22:15
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus_, could you be more specific?22:16
GeneralAntillesHey, lardman.22:16
lardmanhi GeneralAntilles22:17
RST38hmoo lardman22:17
lardmansorry chaps, need to vpn, back in a tick with a trailing _22:18
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, you want to take a look at improving the icons on the wiki frontpage?22:20
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lardman__re22:21
s7hi everyone22:21
woglindejo lardman22:21
s7just got my n810, will test it now :)22:22
woglindehehe22:22
GeneralAntillesAnybody want to write some intro paragraphs for http://maemo.org/development/ and http://maemo.org/support/ to match http://maemo.org/community/ ?22:22
woglindeupdate it first22:22
GeneralAntilles~flashing22:22
infobotit has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware22:22
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lardman__hey woglinde, RST38h22:24
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s7thx a lot, i need to read wiki, possibilities and so on first, anyway22:26
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lardmanhey qwerty12_N800, so how's about it, coming to the next summit?22:34
lardmantell your parents I'm a very good "in loco parentis" role model, I wouldn't do anything anyone else wouldn't when borrowing someone else's teenager22:36
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qwerty12_N800lardman: hi, I really would love to but, I really can't :(. If there's one in London though... :)22:37
qwerty12_N800lol22:37
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guysoft42qwerty12_N800, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=437422:38
lardmanaaah, I'm disappointed; anyway I've a few more months to work on you!22:38
lardmanand I'll be in London on Wednesday so I may come and give you a stern talking to!22:38
qwerty12_N800:P22:38
lardmanlol22:38
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woglinde*g*22:39
guysoft42lardman, i am right in that bug report right?22:39
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: i really wouldn't know :(. I don't even have a usb host adapter22:39
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* lardman looks22:40
Stskeepsguysoft42: you did enable usb host?22:40
lardmanguysoft42: no not quite, I don't have a usb keyboard22:40
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, don't be lame.22:40
Stskeepsbbl22:40
lardmansorry for the misunderstanding22:40
GeneralAntillesParents are a lame excuse.22:41
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GeneralAntillesTell them there'll be at least a half-dozen good "father figures" there. :P22:41
lardmanGeneralAntilles: well if you fly into Heathrow I'll meet you and we can frog march him to the summit ;)22:41
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qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles: can't help being so. But my passport isn't current anyway22:41
lardmanI've got a large suitcase....22:41
GeneralAntillesHehe22:42
woglindelol22:42
lardmanI also hear that for short flights the wheel wells don't get *really* cold22:42
lardmans/wheel/undercarriage22:42
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qwerty12_N800lardman: the suitcase for all the lethal bizzle albums you have? :p22:43
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lardmanif you can't live without them....22:44
lardman:)22:44
lardmanT.Rex again!22:44
rm_you:P22:45
lardmanhttp://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgrmf_t-rex-bang-a-gong-get-it-on_fun22:45
lardmanI must have been watching a Vietnam war film recently22:46
lardmanas it's even a bit before my time :p22:46
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thopiekar1could some please check whether it's possible to download this torrent?22:50
thopiekar1http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/486733922:50
woglindenope22:50
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woglindeoh seems to be legal22:51
qwerty12_N800legal torrents are the boring ones :( (ikea catalogue for this year anyone?)22:52
woglindethe best think with ikea are the hotdogs22:52
* lardman likes their bookshelves22:53
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* qwerty12_N800 likes their little, free, pencils22:54
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thopiekar1hmm22:58
thopiekar1is someone familar in torrent seeding/leeching?22:58
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* qwerty12_N800 is a good basta^H^Hleecher...22:59
thopiekar1I just want to seed it because it's a virtualmaschine with all you need for developting around nokia tablets for the german community..23:00
thopiekar1with androidSDK, sb1 + maemo3, 4 and 5 and eclipse 3.3 and 3.4 as editors..23:01
thopiekar1qwerty12_N800: have you checked out my torrent, whether is works?23:01
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qwerty12_N800on a tablet and transmission already has its allocation problems with 700MB files...23:02
thopiekar1the torrent needs 2.1GB23:02
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lardmanthopiekar1: it appears to work for me, 1 seed , 2 peers atm23:12
* Stskeeps ponders what to do with the n800 with the display with problems.23:14
qwerty12_N800roll it up & puff23:14
GeneralAntillesServer?23:14
lardmanturn it into a usb rocket launcher controller23:14
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah.. did consider that23:14
GeneralAntillesBuilder?23:14
Stskeepsit is battery backed up after all23:14
thopiekar_tabletlardman: hehe23:15
lardmanwas that server or sever...? ;)23:15
lardmanthopiekar_tablet: I do like the sound of those lauchers... :)23:15
GeneralAntillesWebcam missile launched23:15
GeneralAntillesSet it up on your desk so people can pelt you with foam missiles.23:16
lardmanI want to kill wasps in my office23:16
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thopiekar_tabletok thanks for the torrent testing.. if you want you can download it and translate gnome by the language-options in the menu..23:16
lardmanI'm ok thanks, bit busy atm23:17
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* thopiekar_tablet thought about a automatic aiming by detecting a red dot of a laiser pointer by a webcam 23:19
Guest9172_893i wanna concil opinion about new vista theme ;)23:19
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thopiekar_tabletfor these rocket launchers23:19
lardmanI've got a 21W laser in the lab, might just as well aim it directly23:20
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lardman:)23:20
* thopiekar_tablet don't want that maemo gets a windows-os23:20
* lardman imagines the laser head mounted to the usb rocket launcher + webcam to see where it's aiming.... -> dead wasps (and blind officemates)23:21
thopiekar_tablethehe23:21
* lardman picks up his green goggles23:21
qwerty12_N800Tried playing classical music to see if that gets rid of 'em?23:22
lardmanwas wondering if lethal bizzle in mono would do the job actually23:23
lardmanbut may suffer severe collateral damage23:23
lardmanlike everyone in the office :p23:23
lardman:D23:23
GeneralAntilleslol23:23
qwerty12_N800:D23:23
lardmanI'm actually tempted by one of those elastic band flicking gun things, might be quite fun23:24
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* lardman remembers his childhood23:25
CutMeOwnThroatthopiekar_tablet, don't run the bluescreen applet, then23:25
lardmancardboard armout to avoid being shot by the paper pellets and all23:25
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lardmans/armout/armour23:26
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qwerty12_N800lardman: wow, 1957 must've been the days :)23:28
thopiekar_tabletCutMeOwnThroat: the what? bluescreen applet?23:28
lardmanlol, only 1978 thanks23:29
qwerty12_N800hehe23:32
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lardman~curse the problems of 2D phase unwrapping23:33
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, the problems of 2D phase unwrapping !23:33
lardmanseems suitable23:34
thopiekar1I don't know to who i'm uploading now.. my upload-speed is  very slow.. 2-3kB/s! the optimal speed should be 50kB/s.. who of you is downloading from my torrent and where are you from?23:35
lardmannot me23:36
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thopiekar1hmm23:42
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pupnikwget --restrict-file-names=unix broken on maemo.  =windows works fine though23:52
pupnikthe irony23:52
* pupnik lobbs rotten fruit at people who create incompatible filenames/urls23:53
GeneralAntillesLou Lobbs?23:53
pupnikhi GeneralAntilles23:55
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pupnikhows the battle going?23:55
GeneralAntillesHi, pupnik.23:55
GeneralAntillesWhich one? ;)23:55
GeneralAntillesI have many.23:55
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GeneralAntillesUgh, it's 92°F out23:57
* lardman heads off for the night, have a good one chaps23:57
GeneralAntillesSure glad I'm not spending the summer here.23:57
GeneralAntillesLater, lardman.23:57
pupnikcheers lardman23:58
lardman92F! about 45F here23:58
lardmannight23:58
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