IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-04-22

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Myrttigod I hate panucci00:11
GeneralAntillesPanucci's Pizza?00:12
Myrttino, the audio player00:13
b-manlol00:13
Myrttihow the fuck can I add several files to the queue?00:14
MyrttiI downloaded ecamerone from librivox...00:14
MyrttiDecamerone, even00:15
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Myrttiand smarter ones of you may know/look up how many days (chapterss/mp3 files) it consists of...00:16
GeneralAntillesWhat's special about Panucci?00:17
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MyrttiI'm starting to wonder it myself...00:19
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GeneralAntillesWell, if it's just an audio player, why not use Media player or something?00:19
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Myrttibut it has resuming and you can do bookmarks on a particular spot on the file00:20
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GeneralAntillesAh, that'd be what's special.00:20
Myrttiso in theory it's nice with podcasts and audiobooks00:20
GeneralAntillesI don't know any other bookmarking audio players.00:21
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Myrttithe nokia audiobook player for s60 is nicee but i'd much rather use my n80000:22
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khertan_ho my god ! i can t install mplayer on Mer!00:28
khertan_:)00:28
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pupnik_i want an alt-tab equicalent02:17
pupnik_valent02:17
pupnik_maybe xmodmap02:17
pupnik_ctrl-left/right02:18
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fuzzybunnyhelp! i deletted my archives folder03:40
fuzzybunnyi need roott access in gftp03:40
fuzzybunnybye03:41
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fuzzybnnyhi03:44
fuzzybnnyi need help03:46
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jaem_N810hey folks03:46
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jaem_N810so... I have an Elektex fabric keyboard, and it shows up as a storage medium in HFM, but transfers fail03:47
fuzzybunnyhow do you get root access in Gftp03:47
jaem_N810it seems odd that a keyboard might have storage03:47
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jaem_N810any ideas?03:48
fuzzybunnyno clue03:48
fuzzybunnydo u know how to get root access in Gftp03:48
jaem_N810root access for the program, or on the remote machine's fs?03:49
fuzzybunnyth program03:49
fuzzybunnythe03:49
jaem_N810run it from the console?03:49
fuzzybunnywhat console?03:50
fuzzybunnyu mean terminal03:50
jaem_N810yep03:51
fuzzybunnyI accidentally deleted my /var/apt/cache/archives/ directory03:51
fuzzybunnyand I need to make a new one03:52
jaem_N810Maemo doesn't have a graphical sudo app, like gksudo or kdesudo03:52
jaem_N810oh03:52
jaem_N810wait03:52
jaem_N810why do you need to us Gftp, then?03:52
jaem_N810is the deleted folder on your NIT?03:52
fuzzybunny????????03:52
fuzzybunnyI dont know03:52
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fuzzybunnyI used  terminal to rm -r it03:53
fuzzybunnyso I don't think its still there03:53
jaem_N810but this is on your tablet?03:54
jaem_N810not another computer?03:54
fuzzybunnyyes, my tablet03:54
jaem_N810okay03:54
fuzzybunnyN80003:54
jaem_N810do you have the rootsh package (or similar) installed03:54
fuzzybunnyos200803:55
fuzzybunnyno03:55
jaem_N810okay03:55
fuzzybunnyapt is broken so I can't install anything03:55
jaem_N810right03:55
fuzzybunnyso how do u get root in gftp03:55
jaem_N810what happens when you type sudo gainroot into the console?03:56
fuzzybunnyhere, let me try03:56
jaem_N810I'll brb - I have to go out of range03:56
jaem_N810hold on a minute or so03:56
fuzzybunnyok03:56
jaem_N810I13 1e2    kcccccctcccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyg                                   v6vqqw[w44444403:57
jaem_N81044444444444444444444444444444444upo6690irr#iirpjjjjjjjjl1mb;ct03:57
fuzzybunnyu ok?03:58
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jaem_N810note to self03:59
fuzzybunnyhey03:59
jaem_N810turn OFF fabric keyboard BEFORE rolling it up and putting it in pocket03:59
jaem_N810>_<03:59
fuzzybunnyok, root shell is enabled04:00
jaem_N810okay04:00
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jaem_N810try this04:00
fuzzybunnyok04:01
jaem_N810mkdir -p /var/cache/apt/archives04:01
jaem_N810did you just delete the archives folder?04:01
fuzzybunnypretty much04:02
jaem_N810or further up the tree?04:02
jaem_N810okay04:02
jaem_N810hopefully that helps04:02
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jaem_N810if not, I'll be back in a little bit04:02
fuzzybunnythanx04:02
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t3chb0t.04:43
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pupnik_nice, fn+left/right dpad switches between xterms05:06
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jaempupnik_: Oh?05:09
jaemthat is nice05:09
jaemI didn't know that...05:10
jaemalthough, given the d-pad placement, that's not all that useful :S05:10
pupnik_i was trying to find smth to switch between all apps though05:11
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pupnik_i might remap fn to the right shift05:12
jaempupnik_: I think there is a key for that, but I can't remember if there is, or what it might be05:12
* jaem is liking his new BT keyboard05:12
pupnik_which one?05:13
jaemthe Elektex fabric keyboard05:13
jaemit will take a bit of getting used to, but I can type well enough that within the first half an hour, I mostly got the hang of it05:13
jaemand I received in trade for something I got free in the first place, so...05:14
jaemI don't know if you were around, but earlier I forgot to turn it off before rolling it up, and typed a whole bunch of gibberish into #maemo from my pocket05:14
jaemoops05:14
pupnik_yeah saw that05:16
luke-jrI might seriously try GNOME 3 if it's Qt-based.05:16
jaemluke-jr: um...05:16
pupnik_forgot jaem was jaem_n81005:16
jaemluke-jr: isn't that called KDE4? :P05:16
luke-jrjaem: no, KDE 4 is not GNOME05:17
jaempupnik_: different accounts05:17
luke-jrand KDE 4 is getting worse and worse05:17
jaemluke-jr: obviously05:17
jaemI was kidding05:17
luke-jr4.2 has a hard requirement on MySQL05:17
jaembut the idea of a Qt-based GNOME seems amusing05:17
jaemalthough it would be interesting05:17
luke-jrjaem: no excuse for GTK+ anymore05:17
luke-jrQt is LGPL now05:17
luke-jrand open to contributions w/o copyright assignment05:17
luke-jrbut now suffers from KDE going to crap05:18
jaemluke-jr: without getting into it, I think KDE 4 has made good and bad decisions, but I first tried it because it was something new and exciting, as opposed to GNOME, which never seems different between releases05:18
luke-jrjaem: yes, I like KDE 4 a lot in various ways05:18
jaemwhat do you define as "going to crap"?05:18
luke-jrbut the PIM module is horrible now05:19
luke-jrjaem: the MySQL dep is a big one05:19
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jaemluke-jr: PIM could use some serious work, for sure05:19
luke-jralso, the calendar/todo list doesn't work at all05:19
luke-jror at least didn't last time I dared try it (4.1 IIRC)05:19
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jaemKDE moves fast05:19
luke-jrmeinproc4 eats a ton of memory too05:19
luke-jrno clue why, it's jsut an XML processor05:19
jaemthe KDEPIM is a heck of a lot better now05:19
luke-jrgood, but the MySQL dependency still is a killer negative05:20
jaemhrm05:20
luke-jrand it's scheduled to get worse in 4.305:20
jaemoh?05:20
jaemhow so?05:20
luke-jrat least IN THEORY you can disable the MySQL dep05:20
luke-jrwith 4.205:20
luke-jrbut with 4.3, no way no how05:20
jaemwhat's wrong with MySQL?05:20
luke-jrum, it's huge, poor in standards-compliance, and eats memory?05:21
jaemI'm not arguing with you, but I'm interested in your position05:21
jaemah05:21
luke-jreven an empty MySQL db requires over 100 MB of disk space05:21
jaemwell, I can't speak to that, but my Arch/KDEmod install is pretty slim05:21
luke-jroh, and the MySQL dep's purpose is jsut retarded05:21
luke-jrit's a CACHE05:21
jaemwhat's MySQL a dep for, again?05:21
luke-jrfor PIM data05:22
jaemoh, as an Akonadi backend?05:22
jaemright05:22
luke-jryes05:22
* jaem remembers05:22
luke-jrthe only one05:22
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jaemon an aside, is there a list of popular forum tutorials/guides from itT anywhere? I keep hearing of interesting apps and tweaks that I've somehow overlooked for months05:24
luke-jreh, I'm just installing Gentoo ☺05:24
jaemhehe05:24
xnthey guys im back :)05:24
jaemon your NIT? :P05:24
luke-jrthe sky is the limit from there05:24
jaemhey xnt05:24
luke-jrN81005:24
jaemoh my05:24
xnthey05:24
luke-jrs/the sky/RAM/05:24
luke-jrjaem: kdelibs finished a few hours ago05:25
luke-jrworking on boost now05:25
jaemluke-jr: finished building, you mean?05:25
luke-jryes05:25
jaemah05:25
jaemI don't mind building apps from source, but I like my precompiled binaries05:25
jaemthat's why I use Arch05:26
jaemthe best of both worlds05:26
jaemor at least, a good compromise05:26
luke-jrArch runs on N810?05:26
jaemno05:26
jaembut I wish it did05:26
luke-jrI'm building my stuff with -Os ☺05:26
luke-jrand some other memory/size optimizations05:26
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jaemit would be a good fit I think, considering its slimness, but that's not in line with Arch's goals, so it likely won't happen05:27
jaemwhich is kind of too bad, IMO05:27
luke-jrjaem: b-man ported Ubuntu05:27
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b-man:)05:28
jaemluke-jr: I know, and that's decent, but it's not really the same05:28
luke-jrlast I heard he was working on OS X05:28
* jaem high fives b-man05:28
jaemlast I heard, he was working on Vista05:28
jaemlol05:28
luke-jr>_<05:28
luke-jrthat was a joke05:28
luke-jrI think05:28
luke-jrö05:28
b-manno X05:28
jaemluke-jr: I'm aware05:28
b-manD05:28
jaemb-man: try Plan 9 next!05:28
b-manlol05:28
luke-jrb-man: you're cross-compiling, btw?05:29
b-manit was a joke ;)05:29
luke-jror native?05:29
b-mannative05:29
luke-jrb-man: how did you link qt-webkit?05:29
luke-jrI had to copy my rootfs to my amd64 box and use qemu to link :x05:30
jaemis Midori available for Maemo, or do you have to run it from a chroot?05:30
b-mani didn't, i used the upstream ubuntu 9.04 as a base for ubuntu-n8x005:30
luke-jrb-man: upstream had ARM already?05:30
b-manyes05:31
luke-jrarmv6j?05:31
b-manyup :)05:31
luke-jror are you using armv4 stuff?05:31
b-manarmv605:31
luke-jrö05:31
b-man:)05:31
luke-jrwish someone would pass a law saying if we buy hardware we have a right to the specs for them >.>05:32
jaemyeah, but it's not going to happen05:32
b-manXD05:32
luke-jr:/05:32
jaemthe FSF should just buy out a country and do things like that05:32
jaemRMS, president of GNUtopia05:32
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jaemtoo bad you can't do things like that :(05:33
* jaem wants his own country05:33
xntjaem: :P05:33
pupnik_i think tear has .. mem leak05:34
luke-jrjaem: RMS is not trustworthy05:34
luke-jrjaem: also, RMS supports closed hardware05:34
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ShadowJKpupnik_, I think it uses more ram than microb :)06:41
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z4chhhas anyone bought an n810 from there (or, if you were to buy an n810, would you buy this?) http://www.justmywireless.com/product_info.php?products_id=389?osCsid=9757f121144babdb32b21b02284cc6b306:46
luke-jrz4chh: they're always sold out ;p06:49
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z4chhi think all their stuff is used though :\06:50
z4chhi don't like how there is not a description of the quality of the used product06:50
luke-jrz4chh: I got mine used off ebay for about the same price06:52
z4chhim not to fond of "used"06:52
z4chhi prefer a fresh device with fresh battery and such06:53
ShadowJKLi-Ion batteries degrade from the date of manufacture :)06:55
ShadowJKeven if unused06:55
luke-jr‼!06:55
z4chhShadowJK, they probably degrade faster though as use increases06:56
z4chhxD06:56
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ShadowJKYeah, keeping them fully charged, or fully discharged will accelerate it, as well as keeping them warm06:56
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z4chhShadowJK, so should i not have my batter charged fully when i don't use my n800 for a period of time?06:58
ShadowJKIf you want to prolong its life I'd say switch your n800 off when you have 3 bars left07:00
ShadowJKand remove it07:00
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luke-jrslonopotamus_: hi07:03
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ShadowJKIf you're using it, charge often. You don't need to run down the battery before charging, it does more harm than good.07:05
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slonopotamus_luke-jr, hello07:10
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z4chhthanks ShadowJK07:11
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z4chhi think ill get this07:27
z4chhhttp://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/B000Y4AH3C07:27
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KhertanMorning08:11
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thuxmorning08:46
luke-jryay UGT08:47
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JaffaMorning, all10:10
luke-jr#distroflamewar is fun10:13
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thuxluke-jr: do they know what they talk in #distroflamewar?10:34
luke-jrright now they're bashing me for being married I think10:34
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thuxah i thought that they speak linux distributions10:35
luke-jronce upon a time10:35
luke-jrI think someone mentioned FreeBSD recently10:35
thuxalways wondered why distribution wars, same kernel, same programs10:36
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luke-jrthux: yeah, we should try arguing KDE vs GNOME instead10:37
johnxGNOME is better because it has more letters10:37
thuxprobably much better cause for war10:38
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CorsacXfce is best anyway10:39
luke-jrXfce is GTK10:39
luke-jrautomatic fail10:39
Corsacyou fail10:39
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Myrttixfce4 ♥10:41
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RST38hReal geeks need no desktop environment10:46
RST38hAll they need is rm, ls, cp, mkdir, more, and mail10:46
thuxdo they need X?10:46
RST38hno.10:46
RST38hexcept as a way to run 4 xterms maybe10:47
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johnxi dunno. I would really miss stuff like screen10:47
RST38hjohnx: ok, replace X with screen =)10:48
johnxI'm headed that way on my zaurus these days10:48
thuxcan graphical browsers run without X?10:48
RST38h(no, you are not getting lynx, use wget | more =))10:48
johnxRST38h, fine, then s/mail/telnet/10:48
RST38hthux: real geeks need no graphical browsers10:48
johnxmail is a sad, crippled subset of telnet10:48
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RST38hjohnx: true10:48
RST38hjohnx: actually, no, not true10:49
thuxok thought they managed to run them in framebuffer somehow10:49
RST38hjohnx: s/mail/more because "mail" actually works on a local folder10:49
RST38hjohnx: of course you need no pop3 or imap10:49
johnxanyone who isn't on the local machine isn't worth talking to?10:49
RST38hjohnx: these are evil and unsecure anyway10:49
RST38hjohnx: sendmail will handle them for you10:50
johnxthux, they can in some cases10:50
johnxugh. sendmail.10:50
johnxok, I think you can keep your crusty old sendmail10:50
thuxsendmail.cf10:50
RST38hyou DO know how to configure sendmail.cf, don't you? ;)10:50
RST38h<Corsac> you fail10:50
RST38h*** ceyusa (n=ceyusa@83.165.216.16) has joined channel #maemo10:50
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RST38h<Myrtti> xfce4 ο½?ο½10:50
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Corsachm?10:50
RST38hShit, that was an accidental right mouse button press10:50
RST38h(see what I mean by saying that real geeks need no desktop environment? :))10:51
ceyusahehehe,10:51
johnxmaybe you'd be better off with something that had a one-button mouse :>10:51
* Myrtti uses xfce4 to get the terminal and the surroundings pink10:51
Corsacyou just don't need a RMB10:51
Corsacjohnx: aha :)10:51
RST38hjohnx <-- evil!10:51
thuxhere in fi isps prevent :25 usage10:51
thuxcan't send mail or receive mail without relay to mail hub10:53
RST38h"20 tons of frozen fish stolen from a truck in the center of Moscow"10:55
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RST38hjohnx: What would YOU do with 20 tons of stolen fish, btw? =)10:55
johnxRST38h, trucker's response: "not again!"10:55
johnxI have some sharp and nokia people to smack :>10:56
RST38hjohnx: oh, that is not the worst no-again event that happened here10:56
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RST38hjohnx: some Polish guy once broke an ammonia pipeline with lorry, that was hilarious10:57
johnxwow. bet it sucked to be him10:58
RST38hjohnx: Especially considering that he fled afterwards10:58
johnxman, I'd run too10:58
johnxamonia is not the most awesome thing to breathe10:58
johnxit's not even on my top ten list10:58
RST38hjohnx: "Fled" as in "ran away not wishing to be found"10:58
johnxi bet they found him anyways10:59
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RST38hjohnx: most likely, I did not keep track of the story11:00
RST38hjohnx: but the absolute crown is taken by the builders who hammered several piles into a running subway train11:00
RST38hjohnx: ok, it wasn't running after the first one went in, but anyways11:01
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testinglerestinghi11:33
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testinglerestingWhere i can found nokia 770 programs? Thanks.11:38
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johnxthere are some listed on maemo.org/downloads (under os2006), some listed on gronmayer.com/it11:38
johnxbut there was never a really centralized place to find programs for os200611:39
johnxthe situation gradually got better over time, but people kind of moved on from the 770 it seems11:39
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testinglerestingthanks johnx i want to test a bluetooh gps with maemo mapper or another program with maps.11:40
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plastunhi12:04
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plastuna couldn't find g_ether.ko in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/kernel-version/12:04
plastunwhere i can download it from?12:04
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floriangood morning12:06
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rkirtimorning :)12:09
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* lcuk peeks in13:08
* GeneralAntilles shuts the door on lcuk's nose.13:10
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* lcuk laughs cos i was stood at the window13:13
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* GeneralAntilles detonates the trace explosives on the glass.13:15
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, having fun yet?13:16
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yeah, all kinds of little tweaks ;)13:16
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I can't logout, server issue?13:17
X-FadeNeithan is playing with login atm.13:17
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lcukx-fade, are you playing at being manager today or have you rolled up your sleeves to do this one13:21
X-Fadelcuk: Check maemo2midgard commits ;)13:21
GeneralAntillesJust a long string of profanity? ;)13:22
* lcuk looks oooh you have been busy \/13:22
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matmomorning (just) all13:43
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GeneralAntillesInteresting. Reduced competition may be good for Nokia. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20090422PD214.html14:11
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RST38hGeneral: It is a crowded segment with no customers, so no wonder14:15
RST38hProbably does not affect Nokia much though14:15
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, crowded how?14:17
GeneralAntillesThere's barely a product on the market.14:17
GeneralAntillesI'd say the generic MID has plenty of customers.14:17
GeneralAntillesIntel's MID, however, is just too damn expensive and too laptop-like.14:18
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RST38hGeneral: Well, let us see: samsung,lg,asus, and a bunch of chinese nonames all have mids14:20
RST38hGeneral: local computer market here offers at least 5 different models14:21
GeneralAntillesSamsung has UMPCs14:21
RST38hGeneral: But have you seen anyone actually BUYING them?14:21
RST38hGeneral: MID, UMPC, what the hell is the difference? CPU price?14:21
GeneralAntillesSize14:21
RST38hAbout the same if you ask me14:21
RST38hThere are smaller and larger ones14:21
GeneralAntillesWell, you'd be wrong.14:21
RST38hWell, even Samsung UMPC, which is pretty large, still isn't large enough14:22
RST38hSony UMPC is tiny14:22
GeneralAntilles"tiny"14:22
RST38hAnyways, as a consumer, I see no difference between these, other than slight difference in size and in price14:22
GeneralAntillesRead up on the differences between the formfactors14:22
GeneralAntillesOf course your UMPCs (which are not MIDs) aren't selling.14:22
RST38hGeneral: Oh, I know the official definition14:23
RST38hGeneral: The thing is that neither is selling14:23
GeneralAntillesNokia seems to be selling plenty of them.14:23
RST38hGeneral: Netbooks sell as cheap laptops running Windoze. MIDs and UMPCs just do not sell14:23
RST38hGeneral: NIT is not MID.14:23
glassumpc's tend to be called umpc's instead of mids because they cost a shitload14:23
GeneralAntillesYeah, this is a semantics argument.14:23
RST38hGeneral: Intel defines MID as an Intel based device14:24
GeneralAntillesWhile I'm not interested in having (again).14:24
RST38hGeneral: it is, partially, but look at it from a different point of view:14:24
glassexpensive shit doesn't sell very well, doh..14:24
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RST38hGeneral: NIT is basically a smartphone + kbd14:24
RST38hGeneral: MID is basically a laptop14:25
GeneralAntillesYeah, not interested in the semantics argument.14:25
RST38hGeneral: It *may* sound like semantics but a customer who sees N8x0 sees a phone14:25
RST38hBut when you see a MID or UMPC, you basically see a laptop without keyboard14:25
glassthey see it as a phone only because it reads NOKIA on it14:26
RST38htwo totally different devices for a layman14:26
RST38hglass: that too, but also because it sells at the same places as phones14:26
RST38hglass: and behaves like a nokia phone in many aspects14:26
glasswhereas mids and umpc's you don't see for sale anywhere14:26
RST38hglass: I do14:26
RST38hglass: They sell with laptops, same outlets14:27
glassi don't, in general14:27
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GeneralAntillesNor do I.14:27
glassi havent ever seen an oqo in flesh for example14:27
RST38hglass: In here, I see them14:27
GeneralAntillesI've seen the Sony UX in a Sony Store14:27
GeneralAntillesBut nothing else.14:27
RST38hglass: I am pretty sure you can see them everywhere in APAC14:27
RST38hglass: Not Europe or US because there is just no use case14:28
glassthere would be if they sold for 300e or so like the cheapo netbooks14:28
glassthey sell like crazy here14:28
GAN800I really want a 'New packages' feed in h-a-m. Extras has gotten full enough that scanning the full list doesn't work anymore.14:31
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lcukam i meant to ummm "tweet" if i go to the toilet?14:33
GeneralAntillesNot only that, but you should tweet the walk to, the sit down, the debriefing, the actual activity and the after action report.14:34
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RST38hglass: i do not think they would really14:34
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GeneralAntillesIf you don't, you fail at twitter.14:34
lcukpictures on flickr?14:34
lcuk!!! i could draw a diagram!14:34
GeneralAntillesDuh14:34
RST38hglass: if my theory about netbooks selling to be used as normal notebooks is correct, MID/UMPC has no chance14:34
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: yeah, a feed like this would be easy to provide: http://newstyle.maemo.org/downloads/updated/OS2008/25/14:34
GeneralAntillesRST38h, they aren't selling for that reason.14:35
GeneralAntillesThey're selling as second or third machines.14:35
GeneralAntillesWhich is the same reason tablets sell.14:35
RST38hGeneral: key question: because of the price or because of the portability?14:35
GeneralAntillesBoth14:35
GeneralAntillesDo nettops sell like hotcakes?14:35
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GeneralAntillesThey've certainly got the price.14:35
RST38hnot many of those out et14:35
RST38hyet14:35
GeneralAntillesThere are some.14:36
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glassRST38h: most people i know who've bought netbooks also have proper comps, and have bought them solely for cheap price and portability14:36
lcuksize, laptops started to move to being bigger and bigger and heavier and people want smaller - but they find they have less power (obviously) and are caught in a "not all the time" bracket14:36
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, size doesn't explain it.14:37
GeneralAntillesThere were plenty of small laptops before netbooks came around.14:37
GeneralAntilles(size alone, that is)14:37
glasssize and price14:38
GeneralAntilles^14:38
glassthe price being a very big factor, it's no use if it's portable if you're afraid to take it to the pub because of price14:38
RST38hglass: see, if people really wanted portability over price, they would buy real notebooks14:39
RST38hglass: apparently, they do want to price14:39
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GeneralAntillesYou sound like you're refuting a point he made, but that's exactly the point he made 10 minutes ago.14:39
RST38hglass: and buy netbooks as cheap notebooks14:39
RST38hGeneral: I do not understand what you mean :)14:40
RST38hThe point is that MID is no notebook though, and people do not know what to do with it14:40
glassRST38h: 300e vs 1000, the guys/gals i know couldn't really have afforded more expensive either14:40
RST38hOr, returning to my original argument, "If it can't run MS Office, nobody will buy it" :)14:40
glassthey'd have used the money before they would have gotten 1000 together14:40
GeneralAntillesThat argument is clearly bull.14:41
z4chhi getting an n810. im so excited :D14:41
GeneralAntillesFewer people will buy it.14:41
RST38hPlease explain why it is "clearly" bull14:41
RST38hHow much fewer? :)14:41
locutusRST38h: well, the price difference between netbooks and 'small laptops' i just to big14:41
GeneralAntillesBut "nobody" and the sales numbers of devices in the category doesn't quite mesh up.14:41
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locutusRST38h: for the price of a 12" Thinkpad, you can buy 4 Netbooks14:42
RST38hGeneral: mm...ok, example:14:42
GeneralAntillesAnyway, I'm not sure why I let myself be dragged back into this.14:42
wazdHello Maemo14:42
RST38hAll right14:42
RST38hhello wazd14:42
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wazdgood'ol netbooks theme :P14:42
RST38hlocutus: Wrong person, I wouldn't buy a Thinkpad even if it cost 1/2 the price of a netbook14:42
locutusgrin14:42
locutuswell, you get the idea (:14:43
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, yeah, not a complicated thing but I wish the new h-a-m guys would come out from behind the wall and get involved.14:43
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I would too.14:44
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plastunhelp me please with USB-networking14:47
plastuni set up connection both side: Nokia and my PC14:47
Macerugh14:48
plastunthere are PINGS from nokia to pc and from pc to nokia14:48
plastunbut i couldn't go to Internet from Nokia14:48
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sansHi14:50
sanswhile running qmake -project i am getting "/home/maemo/trial//trial.pro Unable to generate project file." in maemo fremantle14:52
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sansanybody can help me14:57
sanswhile running qmake -project i am getting "/home/maemo/trial//trial.pro Unable to generate project file." in maemo 514:58
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danielwilmsplastun: which system are u using?? and which instructions to set up the connection?? have u followed up this: http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking ??15:01
danielwilmsplastun: if u are using linux there are perhaps some firewall issues??15:02
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plastundanielwilms: a have read this wiki15:05
plastuni use Ubuntu 8.1015:05
danielwilmsplastun: hmmm have u checked the hint with the firewall issues there??15:06
plastuni have no firewall15:06
plastunstrange thing: i ping my machine, ok15:07
plastuni ping google.com - "bad address"15:07
sanswhile running qmake -project i am getting "/home/maemo/trial//trial.pro Unable to generate project file." in maemo 515:08
sansany help :)15:08
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GeneralAntillesDoes <title>maemo.org - Home of the Maemo community</title> sound agreeable to everybody? ;)15:13
GeneralAntillesJaffa?15:13
X-FadeOk, now I'm going to move the community and development in place.15:13
GeneralAntillesThis is where the server explodes.15:14
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tekojoX-Fade: newstyle!15:17
X-Fadetekojo: Yeah, not done yet.. But getting there ;)15:17
tekojoFrontpage is good enough for me .-)15:18
X-Fadelol15:18
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danielwilmsplastun thats in deed strange...sorry....haven't found something else related to this...perhaps u could try the iptables entries...wouldn't hurt :)15:26
plastundanielwilms: i'll digg it... thanks15:27
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RST38hback16:02
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* RST38h looks at the mess that is the "new" maemo.org. Should have just kept it as it was...16:05
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GeneralAntillesAlways helpful RST38h.16:07
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RST38hGeneral: I have tried being helpful before on this subject16:10
RST38hNone of my help has been taken into account though, so website is mostly a mashup of seemingly random items16:10
RST38hActually, I can start filing bugs on particular problems with website organization but of course they will all be considered "rants"16:11
GeneralAntillesBecause your bugs usually are rants.16:12
RST38hok.16:12
GeneralAntillesTry to consider that your own opinion may not be the only valid one.16:12
wazdmine is >:D16:12
wazdoh16:12
wazdbad smile16:12
wazd:D16:12
RST38hTry to make a difference between facts and opinion.16:12
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RST38hFor example, the main page (/) for some reason contains two huge panes named "HOT" and "FRESH" + some other random items16:13
RST38hOne would expect to see news there, but you have to scroll down for the news16:14
RST38hSo, where is "opinion"?16:14
wazdRST38h: well, if you think that maemo.org is bad, check out http://www.ubuntu.com/16:14
wazdEspecially "Do it with Ubuntu" t-shirts :D16:15
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RST38hwazd: I can check msdn.microsoft.com or www.msnbc.com for a case of bad design16:16
suihkulokkiI enter a random url to my browser and see bad design16:16
wazdRST38h: well, msnbc is not that bad :)16:17
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wazdGeneralAntilles: btw I have an idea bout "random members of maemo community"16:18
wazdGeneralAntilles: No one cares bout -random- members, but it would be great section for member highlighting16:19
wazdspecified member16:19
X-Fadewazd: That is still in the plans somewhere.16:20
wazdX-Fade: great16:20
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wazdI see 1 visual bug here: http://maemo.org/profile/list/16:21
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wazdleft borders of the row are all same color but rows aren't16:21
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wazdand again what I meant under "sensless stuff".16:24
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RST38hWhat is that huge orange diamond at the right of http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ ?16:24
wazdcheck out: http://maemo.org/profile/view/trin20t/16:24
wazd0.25 is 1px smaller than 316:24
wazdso all this graph stuff actually shows nothing16:25
wazdWhy spend precious time to make that stuff, I don't know16:25
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wazdRST38h: it's a scrollbar :)16:25
RST38hwazd: ohmygod...16:26
RST38hAnd I haven't even tried to look at this site from MicroB yet...16:26
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wazdRST38h: well, I can't see anything that microb can't handle16:27
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RST38hwazd: slashdot doesn't look like much either but brings microb to its knees16:29
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wazdI just got one paradox thing :)16:30
wazdFirst manufacturers claim "desktop like" experience on the handhelds16:31
wazdAnd then make guides how to make "handheld-optimized" site :)16:31
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RST38hwazd: Well, even if you have got a real browser in your tablet, you still have limited memory and cpu16:38
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RST38hwazd: so, yes, it will suck with what is considered a "modern website" :)16:39
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RST38hIronically, Intel claims that Atom bring "desktop browsing experience" as compared with S60/iPhone/NIT/etc16:39
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Stskeepscurious - matchbox1 svn update16:41
Stskeepsmaybe diablo isn't all dead16:41
RST38hSts: Only if Nokia engineers figure out a way to semiofficially update it...16:42
GeneralAntillesRST38h, you missed -developers, I guess.16:42
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Khertan1RST38h: Ironically, Intel claims that Atom bring "desktop browsing experience" << they propably mean with a windows desktop and virus made for windows !16:46
RST38hKhertan: Absolutely :)16:47
RST38hGeneral: No, I kept track of that particular thread =)16:47
wazdhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/04/22/polymer-vision-has-readius-ready-to-go-needs-cash-to-push-it-ou/ <- like that concept16:47
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Khertan1wazd: which concept ? the ui or hw ?16:49
wazdKhertan1: hardware)16:49
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radicis abiword already ported?17:06
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RST38hradic: yes but not fully functional17:09
radichmpf17:10
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luke-jrgah! GPS is proprietary? :/17:14
Stskeepsreverse engineer it?17:15
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radicis there a way to incrase the volume ?17:16
luke-jrStskeeps: that simple, eh?17:18
radicon OS2007 was my n800 louder...17:18
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StsN800luke-jr, you'd be surprised17:21
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ready for a nap yet?17:41
X-FadeNo, still some issues. So no time to sleep.17:42
GeneralAntillesHehe, sounds like it'll never be nap time. ;)17:42
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lopzhola18:35
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gomiamhola18:38
gomiampero más te vale saber inglés porque la mayoría no entiende español ;)18:38
slonopotamusunderstandable, in general :)18:41
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JaffaIs there a relatively good full screen timer for Maemo? There was a Python one which ate batteries19:07
JaffaHmm. With a compositing window manager, having a persistent semi-transparent one floating in a corner could be quite useful19:07
qwerty12Matchbox has the nice effect of breaking on Maemo when you compile it with compositing support...19:08
GeneralAntilleslol19:08
StsN800eggtimer?19:08
qwerty12But xcompmgr and transset-df are in -devel...19:08
ShadowJKcompositing sounds like battery-eating too :-)19:08
JaffaNot in Fremantle :)19:09
JaffaAs long as it stops updating when the screen is off, or its obscured etc.19:10
JaffaGeneralAntilles: EggTimer's a bit fugly, and counts down - I want to count up (giving a 10 minute briefing on Friday about the Oracle/Sun acquisition)19:10
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GeneralAntillesitT is so silly19:11
qwerty12The only complaint I have is that I get a nice zoom effect when logging in - instead of being transferred to the https part19:12
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Woolly-workhowdy, anyone know how to get numpy working in maemo?19:18
GeneralAntillesInstall it?19:20
Woolly-workI cant find the package19:20
GeneralAntilleshttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/n/numptyphysics/19:22
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StsN800i think he means python-numpy19:23
Woolly-workStsN800: that's the one19:24
StsN800it may be part of std python on maemo19:25
qwerty12Nay19:25
Woolly-worknope, it's numeric :(19:25
qwerty12The only time you'll see Numpy in Maemo is in Fremantle19:26
Woolly-workdamn19:26
Woolly-worki've been trying to get numpy on the tablet, so I could then install pycv for face detection19:27
Woolly-workany ideas of another way to do it?19:27
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slonopotamushehe19:31
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GeneralAntillesCapitalization is important. . . .19:32
Woolly-workcapitalisation?19:32
locutusthe thing with Uncle Jack and all that19:33
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GeneralAntilles2000! Time for me to retire.20:07
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fzeroLittle survey.20:10
fzeroAnyone here using FBReader gets random reboots?20:10
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Guest8916_098any idea why make: *** [install] Error 127 dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules binary gave error exit status 220:13
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Guest8916_098any idea why make: *** [install] Error 127 dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules binary gave error exit status 220:21
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mgedminGuest8916_098: the reason for that was printed in the lines above20:27
mgedminfzero: no, not any more20:27
mgedminclarification: (*) when I used to get random reboots I finally blamed some home applet (omweather?)20:28
mgedmin(*) I don't have the latest version of fbreader20:28
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fzeromgedmin: Well, there's a bug posted on the FBreader site about random reboots20:29
* mgedmin waits for the url patiently20:29
fzeroI thought it could be a home applet too, more specifically hometools (which is awesome).20:29
fzeroBut it still happens after I removed all home applets.20:29
mgedminand statusbar applets too?20:30
fzeroHm, no.20:30
fzeroI'll try that next.20:30
fzeroAnyway it'll be a pity if I can't use my current applets. It's weird because it only happens with FBreader.20:31
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ShadowJKhow's fbreader with memory usage?20:31
fzeroIs there any alternative to it?20:31
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fzeroWhich works with non-pdf content.20:31
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, fine.20:31
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fzeroShadowJK: Seems fine. I'm using the system load applet on the statusbar to monitor that.20:32
fzeroIt doesn't seem to be leaking20:32
ShadowJKI found it virtually useless for monitoring anything at all..20:32
fzeroShadowJK: At least you can see if the memory is getting full.20:33
fzeroI'm using some swapspace on the internal card. I know this can also be a problem, but as I said before, it only happens with fbreader.20:33
ShadowJKWhich, perhaps surprisingly, isn't as useful a measure as you'd think..20:33
fzeroShadowJK: Yep, I know.20:34
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fzeroShadowJK: what do you recommend? top?20:34
ShadowJKAbout the only useful thing I've found is to run vmstat 1 and/or vmstat 5 on another computer/tablet through ssh20:35
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ShadowJKIf it's memory pressure that's killing it, the figures in the WA column will increase, output from vmstat might cease, and if it doesn't recover, the watchdog reboots the device20:35
ShadowJKUnfortunately I don't think vmstat is in extras :(20:35
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fzeroLet's see...20:36
fzeroI have my n800 here20:36
fzerolet me hook it.20:36
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fzerono vmstat. :(20:40
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qwerty12_N800I have vmstat in diablo, but that's a result of forcing procps to install & removing busybox's conflict with it20:48
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ShadowJKI installed gcc and compiled vmstat...20:50
fzeroIs it normal to have lots of /usr/sbin/browserd running?20:50
fzeroI downloaded htop btw20:50
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fzeroit's no vmstat but you get a nice view of the system20:50
ShadowJKtwo browserd, two browser20:50
ShadowJK(probably)20:51
fzerothat's about right20:51
Guest8916_098dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: hildon-theme-layout-4-synth (>= 0.14.9-1synth2) dpkg-buildpackage: warning: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.20:51
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Guest8916_098???20:52
Guest8916_098i need to put folder of depandancy in my application folder or what?20:52
fzerowhoa the GUI restarted20:53
ShadowJKthat sounds bad :)20:53
ShadowJKafter doing what?20:53
fzeroAH, ok, not its fault20:53
fzerothe wifi at the office had problems20:54
fzeroXchat on n800 blew up20:54
Guest8916_098dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: hildon-theme-layout-4-synth (>= 0.14.9-1synth2) dpkg-buildpackage: warning: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.20:54
Guest8916_098??20:54
fzeroaaaand the home screen is blank20:55
fzerotime for a reboot.20:55
ShadowJKGuest8916_098, I have no idea what you're trying to do, but generally if I encounter unmet dependencies, I'd try install them, for example apt-get install hildon-theme-layout-4-synth20:56
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Guest8916_098i installed20:59
Guest8916_098if my stuff before packaging is in x folder...i need to put a depandancie in this folder or beside?21:00
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fzeroOk, gotta work, gonna try some more diags at home.21:04
fzeroShadowJK: Thanks for the pointers.21:04
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Guest8916_098how to change shell for bash?21:07
ShadowJKdependencies need to be installed21:07
Guest8916_098i allready installe bash21:08
Guest8916_098but i dont know how to switch21:08
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igagisHi21:13
igagisis anybody aware when did libasound2 update in repository to 1.0.19?21:14
igagisI have strange dependency problem21:14
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igagisautobuilder created a package of my app and indicated a dependency on libasound2 >>1.0.18 I have 1.0.14 on my tablet and it does not want to update to 1.0.19 for some reason21:16
ShadowJKI'd just type bash in terminal..21:16
qwerty12_N800yes, maybe X-Fade can remove the newer version of libasound uploaded to extras-devel.21:16
GeneralAntillesJust keep shoveling it on X-Fade. ;)21:16
igagisqwerty12_N800: does autobuilder uses extras-devel when resolving dependancies when building?21:17
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qwerty12_N800igagis: yep21:17
igagisqwerty12_N800: is it normal?21:18
Guest8916_098tx21:18
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qwerty12_N800igagis: yep, or anything using libs that aren't shipped with diablo would never be built :)21:19
qwerty12_N800igagis: you may be force it to use the right version with a  (= <right version>) rule for libasound in your build deps for now21:20
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qwerty12_N800But the real solution is getting the package removed from -devel21:20
igagisI thought that extras-devel is only for testing... it is ok to use extras for dependencies, but should extras-devel be used?21:20
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igagisok21:20
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GeneralAntillesDamn Tim!21:21
qwerty12_N800igagis: yes, as the builder builds for -devel only, not extras - be a pain to promote each time :)21:21
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GeneralAntillesI still have that stupid song stuck in my head.21:22
igagisqwerty12_N800: ok, thanks for explanation ;-)21:22
* RST38h moos woefully21:22
RST38hApparently, there is still some bug in ARMonARM :( Salt Lake City Olympics 2002 fails.21:23
qwerty12_N800baa RST38h21:24
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RST38hTime to whip out my super duper trace comparison tool21:27
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RST38hAh I see what is going on21:33
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Jaffare21:44
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plastunare there python bindings for QT3?22:35
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lbtplastun: Qt3 on maemo?22:54
plastunyes, qt3 on maemo22:54
lbtAFAIK you can't get Qt3 on maemo....22:54
lbtso no22:54
lbtQt4.5 is there22:55
lbtand I the PyQt stuff is running with it22:55
plastunok, thanks22:55
pupniktear needs copy paste fix22:56
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luke-jrplastun: Qt3 is obsolete23:14
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Guest8916_098anyway to erase some files in root folder on ubuntu (but erase in files broser instead terminal command) ?23:24
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plastungksu nautilus23:26
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GeneralAntillesThe Development, Community and Support pages look really hot.23:44
keesjall very nice indeed23:45
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lbteh?23:48
GeneralAntilleslbt, http://maemo.org/community/23:50
woglindehm23:50
lbtooh23:50
lbtorangey23:51
woglindethe startpage was better in the old one23:51
woglindenow have to scroll down for news23:51
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GeneralAntilleswoglinde, yeah, the frontpage needs some tweaking.23:51
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GeneralAntilles1.1 ;)23:51
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lbton this page: http://maemo.org/news/ all the items in the RHS bar seem to have a trailing / in the href23:56
GeneralAntillesAs they should23:56
lbthttp://stezz.blogspot.com/2009/04/really-convert-your-svn-to-git-with-one.html/23:57
lbtreally?23:57
GeneralAntilleslbt, well, click them. :P23:57
GeneralAntillesAh, different  links.23:58
lbtSorry, the page you were looking for in the blog somethingMeaningful does not exist.23:58
lbt:D23:58
GeneralAntillesWas looknig at the navigation links.23:58
lbtcool - you see it too?23:58
lbtsome work (by luck)23:59
lbtanyhow, FYI23:59

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