IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-04-10

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GeneralAntilles	Who else thinks it's rice pudding time?	00:17
Jaffa	I think it's post-Heroes sleep time	00:17
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lcuk	me, providing you put a blob of jam in the middle	00:17
lcuk	jaffa, you drunk all your milk and done some burps?	00:17
Jaffa	aye	00:18
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GeneralAntilles	Bleh, milk's bad.	00:18
GeneralAntilles	Gotta go to the grocery store tomorrow	00:19
GeneralAntilles	About half the stuff on my list is buy-one-get-one-free.	00:19
lcuk	BOGOF offers are evil things	00:19
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GeneralAntilles	Why?	00:21
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lcuk	i always come back with stuff i never intended	00:21
GeneralAntilles	lol	00:21
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GeneralAntilles	Willpower	00:21
lcuk	but i have twice as much crap!	00:21
lcuk	lack of a decent shopper application	00:21
GeneralAntilles	Oooh	00:22
lcuk	needs to be tied with the fridget n8x0	00:22
lcuk	fridge	00:22
* qwerty12_N800 gets the popcorn		00:22
lcuk	and scan things	00:22
lcuk	hopefully after summer everything will be together :)	00:23
* lcuk is learning how to be a jedi		00:23
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wazd	goodbye world!	00:27
* lbt slaps lcuk again		00:27
lbt	just 'cos he needs	00:27
lbt	karma	00:27
lbt	'cos he's on #mer	00:27
lbt	and it's not	00:27
lbt	counted	00:27
lcuk	:D	00:27
* lbt makes a note to put in a jedi-gesture easter egg		00:28
Jaffa	IRC doesn't yet count towards karma (unless I missed a memo)	00:28
lcuk	:D heh, you know damned well i think highly of your project by the way :P it is begging for barcode goodness	00:29
Jaffa	Given my recent massive drop in karma (damn you X-Fade) I wouldn't be surprised	00:29
lbt	WHAT ... I'm outa here	00:29
lcuk	:O u lost karma?	00:29
GeneralAntilles	It's the Jaffa deduction.	00:30
lcuk	if(fruity($user)) karma-=100;	00:30
Jaffa	It's shifted again. mgedmin was above me earlier in the week at http://maemo.org/profile/list/ - but now the ordering looks familiar, just with lower scores	00:30
Jaffa	Oi. Less of the fruity ;-)	00:30
GeneralAntilles	Man, fanoush dropped a lot.	00:31
lbt	when you mouseover each of the section headings it should say what they're for	00:31
lcuk	using which voice?	00:31
lcuk	PLEASE use KITT or something :D	00:31
lcuk	"micheal, you are in the tins section"	00:32
lbt	<sigh> in http://maemo.org/profile/list	00:32
lcuk	how do you mouseover?	00:32
lcuk	oooh	00:32
lcuk	im thinking about your shopper lol	00:32
lbt	<grin>	00:32
lbt	have you seen wazd's graphics?	00:33
lbt	http://s47.radikal.ru/i115/0904/ad/c36726226e91.png	00:34
lcuk	yeah	00:34
lbt	he's suggested lots of UI changes too... lots on the list	00:34
lcuk	cool	00:35
lbt	been dead busy on OBS though - and then Qt kinetics for gnuton	00:36
lcuk	yeah ive seen	00:36
lcuk	ive had a busy week as well	00:36
lcuk	i got liqbase onto a git server and have been fixing up and solidyfing a lot of code	00:37
lbt	good stuff	00:37
lcuk	its also being documented :)	00:37
lcuk	z4chh has set the ball rolling on this one :)	00:38
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lcuk	if you get curious #liqbase will get you a login :P	00:39
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, conspiracies.	01:17
Stskeeps	bacon is actually rx-51?	01:17
lcuk	rx-51 contains bacon	01:18
lcuk	its more like a cpu	01:18
ds3	Mmmm bacon	01:18
GeneralAntilles	Talk transition silliness.	01:18
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tds5016	can anyone tell me how to get access to the gps with python?	01:56
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ShadowJK	python2.5-gpsbt	02:00
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ShadowJK	http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_gps_examples/index.html	02:01
tds5016	ShadowJK: thanks man!	02:02
tds5016	where can I download that library?	02:02
tds5016	or does it come iwth python?	02:02
tds5016	and will that let me get access to the on board gps?	02:03
ShadowJK	I don't think it was installed with the python-device-env thing	02:03
ShadowJK	But if you have rootsh or openssh installed, get root and apt-get install python2.5-gpsbt	02:03
tds5016	ShadowJK: it's not in the repos :-/.	02:03
ShadowJK	It's not visible in application manager	02:04
ShadowJK	it's in the repos though	02:04
tds5016	sudo apt-cache search python2.5-gpsbt doesn't pull it up :-/.	02:05
ShadowJK	what about just gpsbt?	02:05
tds5016	that driver is there.	02:06
ShadowJK	'libgpsbt'?	02:06
tds5016	yeah, that's there.	02:06
tds5016	will that include the python bindings?	02:06
ShadowJK	no	02:06
tds5016	it says it has the newest version :-/.	02:07
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tds5016	I hope it's already installed.	02:07
tds5016	I guess I COULD just run the sample code and see if it outputs it. haha.	02:08
ShadowJK	yeah or import gpsbt in a python shell...	02:08
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tds5016	wait... that is for a gps connected over bluetooth.	02:08
tds5016	haha.	02:08
ShadowJK	works fine for internal gps	02:08
tds5016	that will pull the internal one?	02:08
ShadowJK	Description: Library for finding paired GPS BT device and internal GPS device	02:08
tds5016	haha, too bad I never get a damned connection with it. haha.	02:08
ShadowJK	The lib uses libgpsmgr API to start and stop gpsd.	02:08
ShadowJK	It doesn't work indoors :)	02:09
ShadowJK	it helps to have a-gps installed	02:09
tds5016	what's a-gps?	02:09
ShadowJK	assisted gps, fetches some data from internet instead of having to wait until there's been clear satellite signal long enough to download it from the satellite	02:10
ShadowJK	but still, it doesn't work indoors, except sometimes if you put it in a window and the window faces in the right direction :)	02:11
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ShadowJK	hm, I hope you've flashed to the diablo firmware and enabled extras repository in application manager? :)	02:13
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tds5016	hmm, gpsbt isn't found by python :-(	02:19
tds5016	I am on diabloe.	02:19
tds5016	diablo.	02:19
tds5016	and I do have extras enabled.	02:19
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GeneralAntilles	lol Beagle MID	02:52
GeneralAntilles	It's huuuge	02:52
GeneralAntilles	http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS7324374331.html	02:52
ds3	:P	02:54
ds3	it was not a finished thing	02:54
ds3	some of that is not accurate	02:55
GeneralAntilles	The Beagle's giant ass ports aren't conducive to building compact devices.	02:56
lcuk	as a proof of concept though it wins hands down	02:57
GeneralAntilles	"was said to have consumed about 80 people hours."	02:57
GeneralAntilles	I want some people hours.	02:57
lcuk	they have an omap3 based tablet before nokia or pandora :P	02:57
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, Archos beat both by almost a year.	02:57
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lcuk	deflated, but its not openopen is it	02:58
GeneralAntilles	You didn't specific open.	02:59
GeneralAntilles	s/specific/specify/	02:59
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: You didn't specify open.	02:59
lcuk	didnt realise archos was on it though	03:00
GeneralAntilles	Archos 5	03:00
GeneralAntilles	From last Summer	03:00
lcuk	cool then	03:01
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ds3	GA: yes, that was one of the things that irked me; had the design the middle layer around them	03:06
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ds3	had to design	03:07
GeneralAntilles	Huh?	03:07
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ds3	GA: that is mine... and I had to juggle the plastic around the connectors	03:07
ds3	the S-Video was the the most irksome	03:07
GeneralAntilles	Oh	03:08
GeneralAntilles	Ha	03:08
GeneralAntilles	Stupid nick coloring	03:08
GeneralAntilles	Thought you were lcuk and it was a bit of a non-sequitor. :P	03:08
ds3	Oh haha	03:08
ds3	the problem with finishing it in about 80hrs is having to expediate shipping of some stuff	03:09
ds3	that adds up :(	03:09
GeneralAntilles	lol	03:09
ds3	and I am working on making it thinner... knocking off 0.25" is a no brainer	03:10
zakkm	any chance theres a screenshot for hildon-theme-sumea-mer ?	03:10
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GeneralAntilles	We need nanotech or something to make hobbyist mobile devices more feasible. :D	03:10
ds3	other then the ports, what else would you like to make smaller?	03:11
GeneralAntilles	Less bezel or more buttons.	03:11
GeneralAntilles	800x480 is a minimum	03:12
ds3	got a source for a cheap 800x480 LCD?	03:12
ds3	that was my problem	03:12
zakkm	you guys are going to make a MID?	03:12
GeneralAntilles	Found some N810 panels, but they were all from the UK. :\	03:12
ds3	zakkm: made one ;)	03:13
ds3	it just sucks	03:13
zakkm	ds3: screenshot?	03:13
ds3	zakkm: http://www.hy-research.com/beagle_mid.html	03:13
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zakkm	that was you?	03:14
zakkm	i saw it on engadget	03:14
ds3	nod	03:14
ds3	I am the nut	03:14
zakkm	wow, i got so intersted in that	03:15
GeneralAntilles	Be nice to get some expansion boards for the Beagle	03:15
zakkm	does it work well?	03:15
ds3	there is a tidal wave of them on the way	03:15
GeneralAntilles	Really? Good.	03:15
zakkm	how good is the beagle mid?	03:15
ds3	it works... it is a prototype... an idea. I wanted to do something that not too long ago was out of the hands of us mortals	03:16
ds3	it isn't good... needs better software for starters	03:16
zakkm	going to market it? :P	03:16
ds3	maybe as a kit if anyone wants to buy it	03:16
ds3	like GA said, it is big, bulky and...	03:16
GeneralAntilles	Hobby kit would work.	03:17
ds3	GA: any particular expansion ability you are looking for?	03:17
ds3	expansion boards are nearly trivial to slap together	03:17
GeneralAntilles	Target the modelling crowd. ;)	03:17
GeneralAntilles	ds3, Gumstix has a nice set.	03:18
ds3	you can hand wire them; that's what I did before	03:18
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ds3	GA: gumstix connectors blow chunks	03:18
GeneralAntilles	Do they?	03:18
ds3	tiny so you have to spin a PCB	03:18
ds3	beagle has a 0.1" header so you can hand wire it	03:19
ds3	can't dead bug those plastic thingies	03:19
GeneralAntilles	A wireless connectivity board would be good	03:19
GeneralAntilles	Especially since the USB stuff has suspect powersaving.	03:20
zakkm	ds3: you should keep working on the beagle mid, could become sickk :P	03:20
zakkm	like real market	03:20
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ds3	GA: Bluetooth sufficient?	03:22
GeneralAntilles	WiFi would be nice.	03:22
ds3	zakkm: got to do stuff to pay the bills first :/	03:22
zakkm	right, always important	03:22
zakkm	wish i could pay my bills, my money just seems to go less and less	03:23
ds3	why is everyone wanting WiFi? I find I rarely use my WiFi on my N800 outside of home	03:23
GeneralAntilles	Because we like to connect our devices to the internet?	03:23
ds3	I use bluetooth for that outside of home	03:23
ds3	the so call free wifi rarely works well	03:23
zakkm	wifi is important ;p	03:24
GeneralAntilles	Well, I have WiFi in most of the places I spend most of my time.	03:24
zakkm	speaking from a teenagers point of view	03:24
ds3	I must manage to avoid those places	03:24
zakkm	the ipod touch did so well because it had wifi, and it had a easy fast browser ;p	03:24
GeneralAntilles	Home, school, work.	03:24
ds3	the free places either 1 - lack signal strength or 2 - their DHCP servers are so overloaded I can't get an address	03:25
ds3	dataplan + bt tether is slow but much more reliable	03:25
GeneralAntilles	I have that, too.	03:25
zakkm	could you stick a beagle board into an actual n800/n810?	03:25
GeneralAntilles	But don't want to have to rely on it when I have faster and more reliable WiFi as an option.	03:26
ds3	no, case is a bit too small	03:26
GeneralAntilles	Bet you could shoehorn an Overo in there though	03:26
ds3	when I first got the N800, I was trying to switch to the local wifi and that was frustrating	03:26
zakkm	n800 should of came with a faster cpu	03:27
GeneralAntilles	HSPA in the next one(s) should be nice	03:27
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, there wasn't anything faster in 2007.	03:27
zakkm	is there any rumour that there will be more than one tablet coming out?	03:28
GeneralAntilles	There are two codenames listed in the kernel: RX-51 and RX-71.	03:28
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zakkm	like 2.. a 16gb weaker model.. and a 32gb faster.. or something	03:28
ds3	GA: well, isn't the 2430 slightly faster?	03:28
GeneralAntilles	ds3, very marginally, but it wasn't out in 2007.	03:29
GeneralAntilles	Well, when the N800 was out, anyway.	03:29
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, I suspect the differences will be larger than that.	03:30
GeneralAntilles	Probably the same SoC, but maybe different formfactors.	03:30
zakkm	idea of what i meant by two.	03:30
zakkm	cause i dont have money and would like a faster tablet ;p	03:30
zakkm	although i believe n810 price will drop :)	03:30
GeneralAntilles	The N810 is not faster.	03:31
zakkm	i know	03:31
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zakkm	but at least its a upgrade from n800	03:31
ds3	build your own!	03:31
zakkm	i wont have enough for a n900	03:31
zakkm	or whatever it will be called	03:31
GeneralAntilles	It's not really an upgrade over the N800	03:31
zakkm	build? im not that techy to be able to	03:31
GeneralAntilles	It's more of a sidegrade.	03:31
zakkm	i like phyiscal keyboards	03:31
zakkm	very much hate onscreen	03:31
zakkm	i didnt buy the ipod, cause the onscreen one was really small	03:32
zakkm	it drives me crazy	03:32
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GeneralAntilles	Just wait for the price drop.	03:32
zakkm	cant wait ! :)	03:33
zakkm	you think i should sell the n800 and wait	03:33
zakkm	i dont mind not having one, and for mer testing i can use virtualbox	03:34
GeneralAntilles	I'd keep the N800 and wait.	03:34
* fireun keeps the 770s and waits		03:34
zakkm	my 770 wsod :(	03:34
zakkm	and then i didnt have warranty	03:34
fireun	the audio plug on one of mine is toast due to too many drops while plugged into the stereo	03:35
zakkm	770 was cool, i would of kept it if i didnt wsod'd	03:35
fireun	and it also needs to have 2008 wiped and 2007he put back on	03:35
zakkm	but i got a nice deal for n800 ( $110 USD )	03:35
fireun	nice	03:36
zakkm	and they came to where i work, so convinent too	03:36
* fireun doesnt want to say what his first 770 cost		03:36
zakkm	my 770 was $85 :D	03:36
zakkm	canadian.	03:36
zakkm	$62 USD	03:36
zakkm	i like 2007OS better than diablo heh	03:37
zakkm	if it wasnt for that DSP thing, i would be using 2007	03:37
* fireun waits for mer to be usable		03:37
* zakkm is currently downloading mer 0.11 vmdk		03:37
fireun	android would be fine too, if it was reviewed as being no slower than 2008	03:37
fireun	but I know it aint there yet	03:38
zakkm	it is fast, just unstable heh	03:38
zakkm	nitdroid is so unstable	03:38
zakkm	but its faster than maemo	03:38
fireun	unstable is what I've got with 2008, so I'm in no hurry	03:38
zakkm	heh	03:38
fireun	unstable AND slow	03:38
fireun	(:	03:38
zakkm	system reboots? freezes?	03:38
fireun	and a memory/cpu hog	03:38
zakkm	lack of onscreen keyboard working	03:38
GeneralAntilles	I've paid full price for two tablets.	03:39
fireun	I have the cpu/mem applet going, so its clear that the slowdowns/freezing is because its out of swap/ram	03:39
zakkm	2008 is slow on 770, i remember it heh	03:39
fireun	2007HE at least keeps its hat on	03:39
zakkm	but on n800 its the opposite	03:39
zakkm	i love 2007 UI	03:39
fireun	2008 starts out faster, but slows from there	03:40
zakkm	might reflash with it just for fun :D	03:40
fireun	I know its never going to be fast hardware, I just want reliable, solid and "stable" net browser/note editor	03:41
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fireun	IM would be nice, but its kind of a one or maybe two app device, running IM just takes resources that would make browsing more useful (:	03:41
zakkm	heh	03:41
zakkm	thats why they should of shipped with faster processors :)	03:41
fireun	I also use it as the net-music-stream->stereo widget	03:41
fireun	although it would be nice to control it remotely so I dont have to go into the other room to restart a stream or switch streams	03:42
zakkm	ssh?	03:42
zakkm	why not mpd?	03:42
zakkm	mpd should do	03:42
fireun	zakkm: I'm over the "needs faster, more ram, bigger screen, bigger drive" craving mode.	03:42
zakkm	have mpd server in other room, and run like sonata on your tablet	03:42
zakkm	lol i get jealous by ppl with ipod touch's, it goes so fast	03:43
fireun	bigger better blah blah more money/never satisfied =gets old	03:43
zakkm	i kno	03:43
zakkm	i want a 770 ;p	03:43
zakkm	scared it would of wsod again though	03:43
GeneralAntilles	770 is the suck	03:44
fireun	what causes wsod? overflashwritting?	03:44
fireun	GeneralAntilles: you kids just want the shiny	03:44
zakkm	lcd screen controller i believe	03:44
GeneralAntilles	Overvoltage on the controller	03:44
GeneralAntilles	fireun, nah, I want a decent browsing experience a reasonably fast video decoding.	03:45
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zakkm	hey guys , this is intersting, an actual distro that takes a maemo sort of window manager approach	03:55
zakkm	desktop distro*	03:55
zakkm	http://xpud.org/	03:55
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zakkm	http://xpud.org/screenshot/xpud-0.8.9-4.png <-- other screenshot	03:56
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tds5016	hello. where can I get pygpsbt?	04:00
tds5016	I don't see it in the repos.	04:00
ds3	heh.... "it's small too" ... under 48MB....	04:01
tds5016	what?	04:03
ds3	the xpud.org distro	04:04
ds3	it is almost like calling a Chevy tahoe a small car	04:05
tds5016	oh. haha.	04:05
tds5016	this is kinda frustrating that pygpsbt didn't install with python :-/	04:05
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tds5016	nvm... I had to run sudo apt-get update to get the apt-cache to update.	04:10
tds5016	haha.	04:10
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zakkm	ds3: just thought it reminded me of maemo/mer	04:19
zakkm	home, menu and stuff at left side.. apps on right side	04:19
tds5016	wow, maemo and python are like a freakin' dream to develop with!	04:20
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zakkm	?	04:20
ds3	zakkm: it does look like it... I just fine the claim of size funny	04:20
zakkm	claim of size?	04:20
zakkm	its downloadable?	04:21
zakkm	saw it on distrowatch	04:21
tds5016	anyone know where I can start the gps/	04:25
tds5016	?*	04:26
tds5016	a quick app that'll try to start the gps, that is.	04:26
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ds3	it says under 48M on the page	04:29
tds5016	how do I open up the gps to try to get a signal?	04:36
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zakkm	ds3: i know, its not lying and its 48mb iso, compressed of course	04:40
zakkm	suppose to boot in under 10 seconds too	04:40
ds3	even if it is uncompressed, 48M isn't exactly small	04:41
tds5016	wow, the gps on this is absolutely worthless...	04:42
tds5016	haha.	04:42
Pavlov	on the n810?	04:42
tds5016	yeah.	04:43
tds5016	haha, I can't get a damned connection no matter WHAT I do.	04:43
tds5016	ahha.	04:43
Pavlov	yeah it is a joke	04:43
Pavlov	go outside	04:43
Pavlov	wait 20 minutes	04:43
tds5016	... I was.	04:43
tds5016	haha!	04:43
tds5016	oh, 20 minutes....	04:43
tds5016	really?	04:43
zakkm	its unusable	04:43
tds5016	yeah, pretty much.	04:44
zakkm	it is a gps, but it is very very unusable	04:44
tds5016	and the fact it had a gps and a camera in it was part of why we bought it.	04:45
tds5016	haha.	04:45
zakkm	that was a mistake :D	04:45
zakkm	wanna sell it? :)	04:46
tds5016	oh well, we'll probably end up buying a cheap bluetooth gps.	04:46
tds5016	haha.	04:46
tds5016	nope. not at all.	04:46
tds5016	I was one for personal use after developing for it.	04:46
zakkm	offer up my n800 and $50 ?	04:46
tds5016	haha.	04:46
tds5016	want*	04:46
tds5016	the thing is beautifully easy to develop for!	04:46
tds5016	haha, it'd be nice if I could rip the GPS out of this thing complete.	04:47
tds5016	completely*	04:47
tds5016	haha.	04:47
tds5016	I won't need this for a while... but do you know how I can install a python program on the maemo?	04:48
tds5016	without using the command line to launch it*	04:48
qwerty12_N800	a desktop file in /usr/share/applications/hildon (the folder is full of tons of them)	04:49
tds5016	of python apps?	04:50
tds5016	how do I give it an icon, and a place in the menu?	04:50
qwerty12_N800	no, a desktop file	04:50
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tds5016	oh, I don't want it to be a desktop file. haha. I need to be able to launch the program from a menu.	04:50
tds5016	well, that would be the most desireable solution, that is.	04:50
qwerty12_N800	yes, a desktop file is required for that.	04:51
lcuk	the .desktop file related to an installed program is what is run when you click on a menu item	04:51
qwerty12_N800	just look in the folder, you'll get what i'm saying.	04:51
tds5016	oh okay, thanks! I'll probably be back to bother you guys about that again :-)	04:51
lcuk	it also tells the menu itself what icon to use	04:51
tds5016	oh okay :-)	04:51
tds5016	I'll be back to bother you guys for that.	04:51
lcuk	and the actual command line to execute	04:51
lcuk	tds5016, khertan does lots of python stuff	04:52
tds5016	I really have to get home now. haha, it's been a long day of playing with this device. I gotta say, I'm kinda stoked for how it'll turn out :-)	04:52
lcuk	he also has a python app packager	04:52
tds5016	lcuk: I'm learning python as I go. haha.	04:52
lcuk	specifically geared to setting up a .deb from a python app	04:52
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* lcuk wonders why he is still awake		04:53
tds5016	oh, an installer would be a crazy sexy solution, and I like debs ;-)	04:53
tds5016	haha, that's one thing debian did right, for the most part.	04:54
tds5016	haha, the package management is pretty sexy haha.	04:54
* qwerty12_N800 blames lcuk for his being awake		04:54
tds5016	haha, I blame PSU ;-)	04:54
tds5016	I shoulda known better than to say I'd do research.	04:55
tds5016	haha...	04:55
tds5016	if you ever go to a university that is known for research, take no part in it, unless u wanna have WAYY to much to do.	04:55
tds5016	haha.	04:55
lcuk	if you ever go to a university where you are actually being pushed to learn and you dont want to be there ;) give up your seat for someone who does	04:56
tds5016	haha, lcuk this is for funding for the college mostly.	04:57
tds5016	haha, not being pushed to learn.	04:57
tds5016	haha.	04:57
tds5016	I enjoy learning, as is.	04:57
tds5016	haha, plus I like to bitch, obviously :-D	04:57
tds5016	hahaha!	04:57
tds5016	actually, I'm just talking shit, I love this place, in total honesty.	04:57
tds5016	I'm going to be sorry to leave, but I'm gonna get warm weather when I go :-D.	04:58
tds5016	sorry, I'm off topic, I know.	04:58
lcuk	damn you	04:58
tds5016	damn me?	04:58
lcuk	where are you heading to	04:58
lcuk	yes	04:58
tds5016	San Jose, California :-)	04:58
lcuk	i live in manchester england, it rains	04:58
zakkm	lcuk: my mom grew up there :)	04:59
zakkm	beautiful placeee :P	04:59
tds5016	oh, I'd love to go to england. haha. Just to visit though.	04:59
zakkm	been to manchester, 3 trips	04:59
tds5016	the rain/dreary weather = stab myself in the face.	04:59
zakkm	like 3 plane trips	04:59
tds5016	you a big manchester united fan?	04:59
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lcuk	last time i flew back from france, it was sunshine all the way, until we descended into the clouds	04:59
lcuk	i have forgotten what the sun actually looks like	05:00
lcuk	barring photographs	05:00
zakkm	lcuk: you close to bury?	05:00
lcuk	work near there, live on the other side of town tho	05:00
tds5016	haha, yeah, I've forgotten what ground looks like, it snows so damned much in State College, PA	05:00
tds5016	haha.	05:00
tds5016	it's always like three feet of snow.	05:00
zakkm	ever go into "town" in bury	05:00
zakkm	theres like the market, and Asda and stuff	05:01
tds5016	mmkay, I gotta leave my office and get back to my apartment. haha.	05:01
lcuk	been a few times, its nothing special	05:01
lcuk	lol	05:01
zakkm	lol	05:01
zakkm	my favourite	05:01
zakkm	theres like a weird shopping center	05:01
zakkm	and a subway and library	05:01
lcuk	you knwo far too much	05:01
zakkm	?	05:02
zakkm	I live in Toronto , Canada.	05:02
lcuk	exactly	05:02
zakkm	lol	05:02
lcuk	remove bury from your mind :)	05:02
zakkm	how do i know far too much?	05:02
lcuk	theres more good stuff lol	05:02
zakkm	its the only place i do know	05:02
zakkm	well you said manchester.	05:02
tds5016	lcuk: I think he's stalking you....	05:02
tds5016	haha.	05:02
lcuk	i suppose its better than being asked if im a MUFC fan ;)	05:02
zakkm	didnt go into manchester all that much, cant remember it anyways .. i got a black eye in blackpool	05:02
lcuk	heh, from a 17stone girl with a mustache?	05:03
zakkm	?	05:03
lcuk	your black eye	05:03
tds5016	haha, were you drunk and getting frisky with her?	05:03
tds5016	haha.	05:03
zakkm	cant remember how it happened	05:03
zakkm	it was like 5 years ago	05:03
lcuk	thats what she said	05:03
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tds5016	and btw, wtf is a stone?	05:04
tds5016	haha.	05:04
zakkm	11 lbs	05:04
zakkm	1 stone = 11 lbs	05:04
tds5016	sorry, I'm such a sad american :-/.	05:04
zakkm	17 stones = 187 lbs.. weight	05:04
tds5016	wow, that was some ridiculous quick conversions going on, you have to do that one often?	05:04
zakkm	in the uk they use pebbles and stones.. rather than lbs	05:04
zakkm	do what?	05:04
lcuk	heh @ peblles	05:05
tds5016	haha, I'm gonna start measuring in stones just to throw people off from now on.	05:05
tds5016	haha.	05:05
zakkm	its 11 .. 11x17 = 187 doesnt it?	05:05
zakkm	im a grocery store cashier.. mess with numbers enough	05:05
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zakkm	lcuk: you like manchester?	05:06
Lanza	google says 14lbs per stone	05:06
lcuk	yeah, but would prefer it to be warmer	05:06
tds5016	I'm going to be a software engineer for a fortune 500, I have a feeling I'm going to be dealing with numbers a bit more than I'd like to. haha.	05:06
zakkm	14? really?	05:06
zakkm	i was told it was 11 when i was younger	05:06
lcuk	inflation	05:07
zakkm	damn im wrong, im sorry	05:07
lcuk	mcdonalds	05:07
tds5016	lcuk: haha, the american women prove it...	05:07
tds5016	;-)	05:08
lcuk	heh	05:08
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tds5016	okay, time to finally get home.	05:08
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tds5016	thanks for all your help tonight guys.	05:11
tds5016	I'll talk to you all tomorrow.	05:11
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lcuk	\o gnite	05:31
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:17
Stskeeps	morning jaffa	10:18
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x29a	moin	10:20
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b0unc3	good morning	10:24
thux	morning	10:27
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X-Fade	Morning	10:45
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RST38h	Mo[u]rning all	10:48
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Stskeeps	does anyone understand why the home city / out city thing is needed in Maemo? :P	11:06
X-Fade	Stskeeps: For the calendar backend?	11:06
Stskeeps	mm, maybe	11:06
X-Fade	Not really being used atm, but Fremantle has a lot more services which might depend on it.	11:07
X-Fade	As it is a lot more location aware.	11:07
Stskeeps	yeah, true	11:07
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RST38h	Sts: It is for when you travel	11:11
Stskeeps	mm	11:12
* Stskeeps ponders idly how they change timezones		11:12
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RST38h	that said, it is pretty useless right now because you cannot tell it that you travel	11:15
Stskeeps	true	11:15
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X-Fade	Yeah, last month I was travelling from NL to FI, FI to SE and SE, FI, NL. Well enough timezone changes there ;)	11:21
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X-Fade	It would be nice if it probably tracked location/timezone.	11:21
X-Fade	Especially when you have to wake up at a certain time ;)	11:21
Stskeeps	yeah, from GPS :P	11:21
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Pavlov	timezones are hard	11:25
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RST38h	The only problem is that right now it is YOU who is telling it the location via AGPS tool :)	11:31
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wazd	Hello world	11:50
lbt	HELLO	11:53
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RST38h	Hell wazd	11:54
RST38h	Umgh	11:55
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RST38h	Vandals take down Internet, emergency, and voice services in California!	12:03
RST38h	10 cables. 4 locations. All it takes.	12:03
lbt	URL?	12:04
Stskeeps	RST38h: the worst threat against infrastructure is not terrorists. it's stupid people in bulldozers	12:07
RST38h	Sts: These weren't stupid people	12:09
mgedmin	smart people in bulldozers are scarier	12:09
RST38h	Sts: They knew what to cut and where. And, miraculously, AT&T has been having a dispute with its trade union just now =)	12:09
mgedmin	have you read about that guy who welded armor to a bulldozer and went on a rampage?	12:09
RST38h	mgdemin <-- speaketh the truth	12:09
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mgedmin	the police could do nothing to him	12:09
RST38h	lbt: http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/10/vandals-take-down-internet-emergency-and-voice-services-in-cal/	12:10
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RST38h	mgedmin: Well, police does not plan, and that guy did	12:10
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Stskeeps	'The manhole covers are heavy," he said, "and would take quite an effort to lift, perhaps even requiring a tool." '	12:11
Stskeeps	...	12:11
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RST38h	Sts: Yea, this is what the world looks like to a layman	12:14
RST38h	Sts: Manholes are heavy, doors marked "do not enter" are locked, and everything is a black box	12:14
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RST38h	God bless those people, while they are the majority, I will have steady income :)	12:15
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lbt	RST38h: ta .... I wonder if 4 locations are "up there, over there, here and here" or 4 facilites many miles apart?	12:26
RST38h	lbt: It says San Francisco. The city isn't that big.	12:27
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lbt	even so, different buildings suggest a different kind of intent than vandalising a single room or two	12:29
RST38h	lbt: IMHO, anything that involves going down a manhole and cutting the right cable isn't "vandalising"	12:30
lbt	how many wrong cables were cut?	12:30
RST38h	It says 10	12:30
lbt	just wondering how targetted it was	12:30
RST38h	Ah, you mean the right/wrong ratio	12:31
lbt	yes, but if they cut 100 and got the 10 critical ones...	12:31
lbt	yes	12:31
lbt	or if there were only 10	12:31
RST38h	The article does not say, although I do not think a manhole may contain more than 5-10 total	12:31
lbt	luck vs judgement...	12:31
RST38h	Most likely judgement though.	12:32
lbt	ah... http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/09/2044205 130am then 3:30am in another town(?)	12:32
lbt	sounds much more precise	12:33
RST38h	Perfect	12:33
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* RST38h is eagerly awaiting some new religion or ideology that well give smart people smart reasons to commit acts like this		12:34
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RST38h	This will provide for years of fun	12:34
lbt	true	12:34
Stskeeps	RST38h: i think it already exists though.. or atleast imagined up in sci fi	12:35
RST38h	Sts: "imagined" won't do, I can imagine much scarier things	12:36
Stskeeps	true	12:36
Stskeeps	1984 was actually slightly weak compared to what actually went on in soviet, heh	12:36
RST38h	Sts: And the 40-virgins clause also does not work on anyone worth his shit	12:36
RST38h	Sts: Not really. .SU wasn't THAT scary	12:37
RST38h	Sts: More of a pain in the ass really	12:37
Stskeeps	nod	12:37
thux	is there known rootkits in maemo? so strange my diablo behaves, slowly screen is sluggish like heavy load but load applet doesn't show	12:48
X-Fade	thux: Can be IO.	12:48
thux	howto find out?	12:49
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RST38h	Install htop	12:51
RST38h	Run it (preferably from remote console, it likes huge consoles) and see what it shows	12:51
thux	ok i try that, thanks	12:52
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thux	htop shows that even when tablet idles cpu is used 13% and half of memory is used, are these normal figures?	13:10
X-Fade	thux: cpu usage is probably htop + your console ;)	13:10
thux	hehe	13:11
thux	yes 13% when idle is like vista in lap	13:12
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lcuk	thux, if 13% idle is considered "normal" we would have to charge batteries every couple of hours	13:37
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lcuk	o_O 498 thanks on iTT	13:38
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RST38h	2 more...	13:49
lcuk	RST38h, its like pokemon!	13:51
RST38h	do thanks from different people give you different types of attacks?	13:51
lcuk	yeah rst :D	13:52
lcuk	you keep up with slashdot dont you	13:53
lbt	499	13:54
* RST38h has slashdot in the rss		13:56
lcuk	o_O	13:56
lcuk	RST38h, they just implemtned a proper achievements section	13:58
lcuk	its something we could have on maemo :D	13:58
lcuk	"typed a word using osk"	13:58
* RST38h does not like this stuff		13:59
RST38h	It breeds karma whores	13:59
RST38h	Simple "thanks" is ok, but making it elaborate breeds karma whores	13:59
lcuk	it makes the game fun!	14:00
* lcuk is a whore		14:00
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lcuk	qwerty12, on the text input poll you put yourself in OSK land, have you tried an 810?	14:02
qwerty12	It was a mistake, I wasn't reading properly and wanted to go for stylus keyboard >.<	14:02
lcuk	there wasnt a stylus keyboard option :P	14:04
qwerty12	the numpad stuff then, dunno :P	14:04
lcuk	the main problem with the hard keyboard though isnt text entry, its numerics	14:04
* lcuk gets hacking		14:07
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RST38h	lcuk: imho the main problem is the damn dpad	14:12
RST38h	And the way whole device seems to tumble over all the time	14:13
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lcuk	heh RST38h ive never had that problem	14:15
lcuk	its so rare i take it out of its case	14:16
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lcuk	and it just leans up against my monitor when im not holding it	14:16
RST38h	lcuk: Mine tumbles WITH the case :)	14:16
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RST38h	Miraculously, you can still type through that layer of plastic	14:16
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lcuk	RST38h, http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg	14:17
lcuk	my wodden case thingy	14:17
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RST38h	Urgh	14:18
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RST38h	lcuk: It's a laptop!	14:18
lcuk	i dont use the apple keyboard most of the time, its just a big book	14:19
lcuk	i can pick it up and throw it around properly	14:19
RST38h	Heh	14:19
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tank-man	thats a funky enter key on that apple keyboard	14:48
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tank-man	left shift too	14:49
lcuk	tank-man, its one of the nicest keyboards ive ever typed on	14:49
lcuk	^compact	14:49
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lcuk	considering its so small and the keys have so little travel, its extremely tactile and each key is big and easy to hit	14:49
tank-man	i have the same aluminum apple keyboard but with normal shift/enter keys	14:49
lcuk	ahh	14:49
tank-man	whats the wooden case for?	14:51
tank-man	stand on the n810 broken?	14:51
lcuk	tank-man, no its more for reading and generally throwing around	14:57
RST38h	He throws his n810 at his cat!	14:57
lcuk	when im lay in bed i can rest it sideways and just use my hand to support it (with finger on dpad enter for next page)	14:57
* lcuk can read for hours that way without arm ache :)		14:58
lcuk	and when im writing on it - my wrist rests on the wooden side - its at the same level as the screen	14:59
lcuk	so its like writing on a proper pad	14:59
lcuk	without it you have to hold wrist in the air and its uncomfortable :)	14:59
RST38h	thecorrect way is, of course, to hold it vertically...	15:00
lcuk	i do RST38h	15:00
lcuk	i rest it on my tummy and its at the right level for my eyes	15:00
lcuk	http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8233/810crateanglexe7.jpg	15:01
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lcuk	http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1256/810crateemptyhm3.jpg	15:02
lcuk	i should put those pics on liqbase.net now	15:03
lcuk	along with the explanation lol	15:04
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tank-man	your wooden holder has inspired me to build a hands free holder out of pvc pipes	15:21
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lcuk	heh tank-man cool	15:22
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lcuk	lbt does stuff with piping	15:22
lcuk	(hes multitalented lol)	15:22
RST38h	Just sew a sleeve with a pocket for the n810	15:23
RST38h	And wear it	15:23
RST38h	But, of course, if you find a wide enough PVC pipe... :)	15:23
tank-man	http://justoutsideboston.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/vw_beetle_laptop_desk_1.jpg	15:23
tank-man	something like that but smaller	15:24
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lcuk	tank-man, what are you gonna plug the other end into	15:29
tank-man	bed frame	15:29
tank-man	its going to be more elaborate, going to have moving joints :)	15:29
lcuk	o_O	15:30
lcuk	dedication!	15:30
lcuk	you could use powered joints and have it waking you up in the morning	15:30
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RST38h	tank-man: I hope you are already considering adding adeadly laser?	15:34
lcuk	that would require modifications to the PVC locking mechanism	15:36
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lcuk	testing has shown it does not lock correctly to the dorsal fin	15:36
RST38h	You have got dorsal fins?	15:37
lcuk	no but the sharks do	15:37
RST38h	You are not giving your beloved n810 to sharks, are you?	15:38
lcuk	they can have the 800 :D	15:40
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tank-man	i think im switching to wire coat hanger + duct tape	15:46
tank-man	my n800 is pretty light	15:46
RST38h	ah, the fashionable pyramidal shape!	15:49
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lopz	hola	16:10
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RST38h	...Slashdot gets a mention on page 45 not as a terrorist organization itself, but as one of the places that member of Anonymous may hang out...	16:36
RST38h	"Anonymous consists largely of users from multiple internet sites such as 4chan, 711chan, 420chan, Something Awful, Fark, Encyclopedia Dramatica, Slashdot, IRC channels, and YouTube."	16:37
MakeGho	is this a copypaste from somewhere?	16:38
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RST38h	Make: Guess where	16:38
MakeGho	ohh.	16:38
RST38h	Stskeeps: Remember what I said this morning? ;)	16:38
MakeGho	well, tell me	16:38
Stskeeps	RST38h: no, my memory is shot :P	16:38
MakeGho	oh right.	16:39
MakeGho	Found it, wasn't too hard. :P	16:39
RST38h	Stskeeps: That there has to be some cult for the smart people that makes them terrorists	16:40
Stskeeps	ah	16:40
RST38h	Stskeeps: Behold the Cult of Anonymous! :)	16:40
Stskeeps	true, true	16:40
Stskeeps	RST38h: i'm actually more afraid of anonymous mindset than let's say, punkers and some of the more extremist protestors	16:40
RST38h	A few more years, some persecution for police, a couple of martyrs, and we are all set up for fun	16:40
RST38h	s/for/by	16:41
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RST38h	Stskeeps: Well, "DO IT FOR LULZ" is one ideology that can be used, but not the only one =)	16:41
lcuk	what are the other *chans about, ive heard of 4chan	16:48
lcuk	are they just dupes thereof or contain different stuff?	16:49
RST38h	same shit	16:49
RST38h	originate from some .jp based forums for anime lovers	16:50
RST38h	the european ones were also started by anime guys but have now become not limited to anime	16:50
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* b-man` was allmost successful in booting nitdroid in qemu while booted in Mer on his N800 :)		17:04
Stskeeps	hehe	17:04
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b-man`	Allthough the debugging kernel that i was using with the emulator was erroring out because of a fuew missing components in the android image	17:09
b-man`	but it runs ok, amazingly	17:10
b-man`	the startup is quite slow	17:10
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b-man`	but after it boots the kernel it runs fine :)	17:11
* b-man` will upload screenshots		17:12
* b-man` wonders what would happen if he booted mer in qemu in mer XD		17:13
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Macer	workworkwork	17:36
Macer	Stskeeps: how about that AWESOME usps tracking huh ? :)	17:37
Stskeeps	Macer: well, it's holidays in .dk right now	17:38
Stskeeps	so they probably don't sort maill	17:38
Macer	heh.. here too.. but the tracking is so vague	17:38
Macer	ups and fedex probably have your pkg integrated into google maps with gps positioning	17:38
Stskeeps	they should just put in a gps coordinate..	17:38
Macer	usps says "left US"	17:38
Stskeeps	hehe	17:38
Macer	:)	17:38
Macer	ah well.. gotta go. hope it makes it there in time for your thing	17:39
Stskeeps	thanks	17:39
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lcuk	z4chh, you got your wiring back in shape	20:56
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shpaq	anyone here with n770 and working advanced-power?	21:12
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lakin	note to self: close window != autojoin on startup	21:14
Stskeeps	yes, so it goes	21:15
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lakin	Is this the appropriate location to ask questions regarding getting a scratchbox and sdk up and running?	21:19
Stskeeps	yeah.. but it isn't a support channel, so don't expect answers, but some may answer :P	21:19
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Stskeeps	so give it a go :)	21:19
lakin	heh, cool. Using this as a guide - http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=453 - I installed the Diablo scratchbox and SDK. Everything worked fine the first time through, including running xephyr and the test program. Rebooted my computer and started it all up again, and now I'm these: http://pastie.org/443024	21:19
Stskeeps	ubuntu?	21:20
lakin	yeah	21:20
Stskeeps	echo 4096 \| sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr	21:21
Stskeeps	(from outside sb)	21:21
Stskeeps	echo 0 \| sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled	21:21
Stskeeps	as well	21:21
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lakin	oh.	21:24
lakin	Yeah, I thought I had that in sysctl.conf - so I figured those applied - thanks Stskeeps	21:24
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qwerty12_N800	one of the files in /etc/sysctl.d will override it	21:25
lakin	Sweet! Thanks a bunch	21:25
* b-man` starts blasting his music		21:25
lakin	qwerty12_N800: thanks. I'll probably just remember I need those from now on	21:26
lcuk	Stskeeps, sure its a support chan :P ive heard all sorts of things over the months	21:26
lcuk	"how do i cook bacon perfectly?"	21:26
b-man`	lol	21:27
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* lcuk watches bablyon 5		21:30
* lcuk also kicks z4chh and tangles more of his wires		21:30
RST38h	back	21:31
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b-man`	Stskeeps: same error XP	21:32
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CESARMELO	OI	21:38
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GeneralAntilles	Nice Cortex phones on the horizon, too bad they all have crippling faults.	22:01
ShadowJK	unflashable? :)	22:02
GeneralAntilles	Well, the Pre is Sprint and CDMA	22:02
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GeneralAntilles	The OmniaHD is TouchWiz and probably unaffordable	22:02
ShadowJK	omniahd? is that an upgrade to plain omnia?	22:03
* ShadowJK vaguely recalls omnia had a huge ad campaign		22:03
GeneralAntilles	S60 5th with a Cortex A8	22:03
GeneralAntilles	i8910	22:03
ShadowJK	well, huge in the sense that it was able to be visible to me, which is pretty damn ahrd	22:03
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Pavlov	yeah the omnia hd is a lot nicer than the omnia	22:15
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GeneralAntilles	Isn't the Omnia WinMob?	22:20
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VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, omnia is WinMob, the hd version is S60 ?	22:23
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GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, yeah, I believe so.	22:23
VDVsx	ohh	22:24
GeneralAntilles	http://www.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/samsung_acme_i8910_1-480x360.jpg	22:24
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GeneralAntilles	It looks like a really nice phone, but I know I wont be able to afford it unlocked and it really is starting to infringe on tablet territory.	22:24
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VDVsx	ah ok, didn't notice this change: "We've received official word from Samsung that the S60-based superphone will be "selectively" renamed to "i8910 HD" in some countries "	22:27
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, still searching for a new phone ?	22:29
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wiza	I'm currently sticking with e90, I'm mostly happy with it	22:30
wiza	slideout qwerty linux phone would be great, none exists :(	22:30
VDVsx	I have a 6110 nav, but I only use the basic phones features :)	22:32
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ShadowJK	I thought it was amusing that the openmoko ceo said freerunner misses calls but it's fine for making outgoing, that always works	22:32
ShadowJK	when on the same day I couldn't make outgoing call with my Nokia phone until I drove outside 3G coverage :P	22:33
VDVsx	lol	22:33
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, sort of.	22:34
* VDVsx also have a 5800 xm, but only use it for his master research :)		22:34
GeneralAntilles	I may wait for a tablet announcement at this point, though.	22:34
ShadowJK	oh stranger still, it did packet data just fine	22:35
ShadowJK	but I didn't have my voip details setup on it :(	22:36
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