IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-03-07

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Jaffa	yerga: presumably modest, given the diablo version is already multi-window?	00:10
Jaffa	and from what you said on ITT ;-)	00:10
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yerga	Jaffa, modest in diablo is multi window but in fremantle not	00:11
yerga	multi-screen but in the same window ;)	00:11
beneditoNeto1	hello all	00:14
beneditoNeto1	I have a doubt about the maemo application manager	00:14
Jaffa	yerga: did it look promising?	00:14
beneditoNeto1	How can I install one .deb package by command line with hildon-application-manager	00:14
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beneditoNeto1	please anyone help me	00:14
yerga	Jaffa, imho yes	00:14
Jaffa	beneditoNeto1: you don't, you just use dpkg -i from the cli	00:14
beneditoNeto1	no	00:15
Jaffa	beneditoNeto1: h-a-m is just a GUI front end to apt and dpkg	00:15
semente	qwerty12_N800: I see that passwords are in plain text. :-/	00:16
qwerty12_N800	semente: yep :/	00:16
lcuk	bbl	00:16
beneditoNeto1	I know but I had to be a root user	00:17
qwerty12_N800	semente: don't think diablo is very security conscious - lock code is plan text (changing for next device as I understand it) :/	00:17
beneditoNeto1	jaffa: In the case my application had to execute this command	00:18
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semente	qwerty12_N800: I think is need I gnome-keyring for Maemo thats are integrated with lock code.	00:19
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yerga	it seems there will be a calendar in Maemo 5	00:23
yerga	though it could seems obvious ;)	00:23
yerga	and nokia maps too	00:24
Jaffa	beneditoNeto1: if your app wants to install something, make it have a setuid binary	00:24
Jaffa	yerga: where'd you find that?	00:25
yerga	in hildon-desktop code	00:25
qwerty12_N800	beneditoNeto1: because you like long commands... dbus-send --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.hildon_application_manager /com/nokia/hildon_application_manager com.nokia.hildon_application_manager.mime_open string:"file:///location/to/.deb"	00:25
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yerga	it has hardcoded the applications will be in the first screen of the menu	00:25
qwerty12_N800	but user has to click ok like normal...	00:26
yerga	where now it's control-panel and app manager, etc.	00:26
Jaffa	yerga:: hildon-desktop's got refs to Nokia Maps?! Location-awareness stuff, I 'spose?	00:26
yerga	g_datalist_set_data (&main_apps, "nokia-maps", (gpointer)7);	00:26
yerga	exactly it	00:27
yerga	http://yerga.net/files/hd-launcher-item.c	00:30
yerga	in line ~350	00:30
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yerga	Also it's interesting this file in the SDK: /usr/share/applicattions/uri-action-defaults.list	00:32
qwerty12_N800	its existence or its contents?	00:32
yerga	its contents	00:33
yerga	sms and call actions	00:33
qwerty12_N800	call, eh?	00:34
* qwerty12_N800 says hi to the next phone		00:34
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Jaffa	The conf call stuff in http://bleb.org/software/maemo/telephony-maemo.c:source was another giveaway	00:36
Jaffa	The iPhone/last.fm advert with integrated calling is simple, but impressive	00:36
Jaffa	yerga: that's lovely abstraction btw, allowing easy reuse in, say, Mer or Ubuntu MID (not)	00:37
GeneralAntilles	Alright, totally unsubscribing from -users.	00:38
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beneditoNeto1	Jaffa: tks so much	00:39
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GeneralAntilles	I don't really feel like dealing with off-list flames.	00:40
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: oh, fun.	00:40
* GeneralAntilles can already feel his blood pressure dropping.		00:42
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Anidel	hi	00:44
GeneralAntilles	Hello, Anidel.	00:45
Anidel	hey GA	00:46
lcuk	yerga, thats a great list of apps. reminds me of http://liqbase.net/liq.20090306_224503.lib.scr.png :)	00:46
Anidel	so strange that solution for flashing is not as safe as a full charged battery	00:46
Anidel	yerga, you wrote erminig, don't you?	00:47
yerga	Anidel, not.	00:47
Anidel	shoot :)	00:47
yerga	I helped to the dev to upload it to extras	00:47
Anidel	ok	00:47
yerga	well, to the second delevoper	00:47
yerga	the first was tahitibob	00:48
Anidel	does the latest in extras work?	00:48
Anidel	I mean	00:48
Anidel	is it updated with gmail's API?	00:48
Anidel	'cause it doesn't work for me	00:48
yerga	I think so	00:49
yerga	at least with the last update of the api I uploaded to the repo	00:49
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yerga	what version of python-gdata have you?	00:49
Anidel	I'll have to spend some more time on it	00:50
Anidel	let me check	00:50
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Anidel	1.2.3-0maemo1	00:53
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Anidel	(terminal won't start either...think Debain ruined something)	00:53
yerga	can you to do apt-get?	00:54
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Anidel	yupe... sorry it's maemo2	00:56
yerga	yeah, it's the last one.	00:56
yerga	please, do apt-get install python-gdata=1.1.1-0maemo1	00:57
Anidel	will try	00:57
yerga	if it works with that version, then isnt updated	00:57
Anidel	k	00:57
Anidel	says can't find that version	00:58
Anidel	uhm	00:58
Anidel	I think I have some extras-devel library installed	00:58
yerga	ah, that version it's in -devel only	00:59
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zakkmn	HEADS UP: hildon-desktop will be broken in repository, as we are preparing to switch to new base UI.	00:59
zakkmn	does that mean your changing to the new ui i saw in maemo 5 sdk screenshots?	00:59
Anidel	which one?	01:00
Anidel	0maemo2?	01:00
yerga	1.1.1-0maemo1	01:00
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Anidel	so?	01:01
yerga	I'll take a look tomorrow to Erminig	01:02
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Anidel	ok... if 1.1.1 is in devel, why a newer version is in extras?	01:03
Anidel	last line of the error says: AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'value'	01:04
yerga	the 1.1.1 version didn't do extras, it seems, or was deleted from there	01:05
yerga	ok	01:05
yerga	the error is the one you write in iTT?	01:05
Anidel	yep	01:05
Anidel	it's always the same	01:05
yerga	ok	01:06
Anidel	thanks	01:06
Anidel	can't wait to receive my dell mini 9	01:06
Anidel	:)	01:06
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Anidel	yerga, which version of erminig is the latest stable, if you remember	01:13
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Anidel	going to sleep...good night	01:38
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jaem_N810	hello	02:07
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Pavlov	GeneralAntilles: you there?	03:27
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jaem_N810	does anybody know if maemo-wordpy's connection is encrypted	03:39
jaem_N810	*connection to WP	03:39
jaem_N810	I thought I'd ask, since I don't have the time to fire up Wireshark at the moment	03:40
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Macer	ugh newegg sucks	04:06
Macer	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187007	04:06
Macer	i ordered that for the sole purpose of it having NO FAN	04:06
Macer	and i get a card with a flimsy ass heatsink and a crappy fan on it	04:06
fireun	sucker!	04:07
Macer	i know right	04:07
* fireun hates that		04:07
Macer	wtf :) it says PASSIVE Right in its name	04:07
fireun	I wont ever buy iomega products because of that	04:07
Macer	i just need it for a server. i am trying to eliminate having a video card with a fan on it in my server	04:07
fireun	geforce card, for a server?	04:07
Macer	one that i had didn't work in the box. and the one that's in there sounds like a damn jet engine	04:07
Macer	fireun: yah.. but it was an older 8400 and was $40	04:08
* fireun would go scrounge a local pc shop		04:08
Macer	i really got it just because it didn't have a fan	04:08
Macer	fireun: local pc shop? if circuit city went under what makes you think there is a local pc shop anymore anywhere?	04:08
Macer	;)	04:08
fireun	because there are like two in town here?	04:09
Macer	wow seriously?	04:09
fireun	milage may vary	04:09
Macer	it's just a front. they are peddaling drugs out the back door :)	04:09
fireun	there was never a circuit city here, is why	04:09
Macer	small town?	04:09
fireun	warehouse businesses DO kill small businesses	04:09
fireun	local cities dont like big box shops, although there is a walmart and a costco nearby	04:10
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Macer	yeah they sure do.. but stuff is so cheap :) although i suppose nobody can buy it if they don't have jobs	04:10
Macer	there's always a walmart ... it's in infestation	04:10
Macer	haven't you seen the walmart southpark?	04:10
fireun	you'd be suprised how many people still dont know how to shop online	04:10
fireun	my grandmother bought her pc at >SEARS<	04:10
Macer	oh i'm sure a ton of them don't.. or are rather scared	04:10
fireun	stupid old people	04:10
Macer	old people keep sears in business	04:10
Macer	plus. sears sells a lot of craftsman tools.. which i think is their real bread and butter	04:11
* Macer thinks about all the US car makers going under....		04:11
Macer	well.. maybe not for long :)	04:11
Macer	you know what really sucks.. if you find an actual american made product.. then they are usually very high quality products	04:12
Macer	even canadian stuff is pretty good too	04:12
fireun	it seems like we're stop just short of outright collapse... but if you read/watch too much finance talk, we're really headed for the ringer.	04:12
fireun	like, buying FOOD next year is going to be a concern	04:12
fireun	but you cant believe everything you read	04:12
Macer	yeah.. from 14000 to 6800 for the dow	04:12
Macer	holy crap :)	04:12
* fireun is not employed, since last summer		04:12
* fireun is worried about school loans disappearing		04:13
* fireun has little left to lose, so isnt too worried		04:13
Macer	heh.. my company was able to adjust before the shit really hit the fan	04:14
fireun	I wonder what career hobos have to think about the current economic mess?	04:14
Macer	but their stock took a major hit when people were selling them off in order to make up for bankrupt hedge funds	04:14
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Macer	even the good stocks got hit because people had to make the money up elsewhere	04:14
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fireun	yup, cant watch stock markets, they're insane and cant be used to predict the future, unfortunatly, many many many people >are< in fact gauging the future by the activity of the stock market	04:15
Macer	fireun: private business is the only thing that is going to save the economy	04:15
fireun	kinda like using a roulette table to predict what food to buy	04:15
Macer	the stock market has always been nothing more than fake money :)	04:15
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Macer	unfortunately the credit lines are given by a banking system that survives in the market	04:16
fireun	Macer: at a certain level, a basic lifestyle demands basic services - so for instance, "the pampered chef" market is pulling in big profits right now, everyone is cooking at home.	04:16
Macer	yeah... i suppose so	04:17
fireun	Macer: there are still localized sources of capital that will want an outlet, and those that dont trust the credit markets to see their money put to good use will invest in local business	04:17
Macer	on the brighter side.. we have free trade for not turning us into the new mexico :)	04:17
fireun	hopefully we wont slump back to barter markets	04:17
fireun	(:	04:17
fireun	hopefully	04:17
benson[away]	fireun: And everyone still has enough money to buy fancy cookware.	04:17
Macer	barter! haha	04:17
Macer	maybe that was the way to go in the first place	04:17
Macer	at least people would all learn a skill	04:17
benson[away]	Pampered Chef dies when times get worse, and people make do with one skiller.	04:18
fireun	benson[away]: americans buy stuff, to comfort themselves... cooking supplies, books, ect, seem like a safe bet	04:18
benson[away]	s/er/et/	04:18
infobot	benson[away] meant: Pampeted Chef dies when times get worse, and people make do with one skiller.	04:18
benson[away]	Lol	04:18
fireun	benson[away]: yes, all markets are transitionary	04:18
benson[away]	skillet, anyway.	04:18
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fireun	finance is the ability to make profit from a given market environment	04:19
fireun	"financial weather"	04:19
* fireun is reading books on economics fundamentals to better understand what the hell market people are talking about		04:19
fireun	its all a bunch of mathmatical models nowdays	04:20
fireun	which is not always relatable to common sense reality	04:20
fireun	unfortunatly, the more I know about the situation, the easier it is to scare people with it (:	04:21
fireun	especially people who start a discussion with "goverment has never done any good"	04:21
fireun	frightening how many people think obama is a commie	04:22
benson	Oversimplifications FTW!	04:22
* fireun mutters		04:22
fireun	benson: the financial industry / economics theory is freaking madness	04:22
fireun	the more you look at it, the more there is to wonder about	04:23
fireun	http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/04/iceland200904?printable=true&currentPage=all	04:24
fireun	if you really want to blow your mind, look at what Iceland is like	04:24
fireun	890% debt over GDP as they currently stand	04:25
fireun	they are FUBAR	04:25
fireun	the US is still only at like 30-40% even with current TARP spending	04:25
* fireun stops himself		04:26
doc\|work	still... but for now	04:26
benson	That's pretty impressive.	04:26
fireun	doc\|work: the US >does< have a pretty imense GDP, despite current losses	04:26
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fireun	italy is supposed to be at like 90% GDP	04:27
doc\|work	fireun: sure, and 70% of it built on people buying stuff.	04:27
doc\|work	which they're no longer doing	04:27
fireun	again, finance is crazy, they've been trying to figure out what causes GDP growth in different countries forever	04:27
* benson tends not to research economics too much. No point making myself raging mad or suicidally depressed. ;)		04:27
doc\|work	fireun: inflation does, but not for good reasons :)	04:28
fireun	benson: I cant sit buy and believe anything the talking heads on tv say, so... I spend that time reading	04:28
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fireun	doc\|work: again, the more I learn, the more confusing it gets...	04:28
fireun	it can NOT be sumed up in a 2 minute "discussion" with a news anchor and his guest	04:29
doc\|work	fireun: it's good for those who pull the strings that it's confusing. Means you can't question it.	04:29
benson	TV?! No way.	04:29
fireun	there is so much more the most people dont understand	04:29
doc\|work	the entire thing is a pyramid scheme, and the bottom cards are falling now	04:29
benson	Reading definitely is the way to go about it.	04:29
fireun	benson: most americans get their "opinions" on whats going on from the TV	04:29
fireun	madness	04:29
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fireun	doc\|work: I cant side with any broad statement like that	04:30
benson	But I already know enough to have one of the aforementioned effects.	04:30
fireun	doc\|work: but I will agree there are similarities	04:30
doc\|work	fireun: start reading about money. History of it, and the past results of using fiat currencies.	04:30
fireun	benson: education is the only way to form an opinion, a trust network fails every time	04:30
fireun	like a game of telephone	04:30
fireun	doc\|work: I saw something today.. hold on..	04:31
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fireun	doc\|work: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/03/local-money-food-dollars.php	04:32
fireun	the fiat dollar system allows the fed to alter economic balance, which is key to how the US's markets work	04:32
fireun	it enabled strange models to be used	04:32
fireun	not that I'm saying its a good thing, it was just a new technology	04:33
doc\|work	fireun: sure, and it's a bad thing	04:33
doc\|work	they can print money whenever they want, spend the money however they want	04:33
fireun	doc\|work: looking at today's numbers, yeah, doesnt seem to currently be doing any good, but for awhile it allowed some extraordinary things to exist	04:33
fireun	doc\|work: running out of money does freakist things to a country	04:34
doc\|work	fireun: the money's not running out	04:34
doc\|work	the credit is	04:34
fireun	so its a useable recovery tool, but again, not necessarily good in the long run	04:34
doc\|work	http://www.mises.org/money.asp	04:34
doc\|work	you should read that	04:34
fireun	doc\|work: right, the trap of using a fiat currency	04:34
doc\|work	yup	04:34
fireun	everything has a cost	04:34
doc\|work	having bad times? create more credit! having good times? hey, things are going well! more credit for everyone!	04:35
doc\|work	oh look, a crack...	04:35
fireun	heard a quote the other day, that the US loves new technology, has always adopted new things and new ways of doing things without understanding the impact/costs..	04:35
fireun	like cars, for instance	04:35
doc\|work	pffft	04:35
fireun	we fall in love with a technology, and then get angry when it burns us down the road	04:35
fireun	"its my RIGHT to be able to drive my 8L hemi down the road as fast as I wanna"	04:36
doc\|work	if they could have the industrial revolution without fiat currency they could have had growth in the last 100 years without it	04:36
fireun	couldnt?	04:36
doc\|work	I'd even suggest it would be better growth as there'd be more malinvestment	04:36
doc\|work	with credit	04:36
doc\|work	e.g. housing bubbles	04:36
fireun	doc\|work: all moot at this day (:	04:36
doc\|work	no, could	04:36
fireun	hindsight is a bitch	04:36
doc\|work	fireun: not at all, to fix the problem you first need to understand what caused it	04:36
fireun	knowledge is power	04:37
doc\|work	not understanding it and trying to fix it makes you a .... politician...	04:37
fireun	heh	04:37
fireun	no doubt	04:37
doc\|work	anyway, read that link	04:37
doc\|work	lots of other stuff there too	04:37
fireun	the technology of politicians is "people"	04:37
fireun	yeah, I appologize for derailing #maemo onto current economics topics	04:37
fireun	its easy to get passionate about it these days	04:38
doc\|work	yeah	04:38
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Macer	wtf	05:12
Macer	i tell you if it's not one thing it's another :)	05:12
Macer	filezilla won't xfer unless i am moving the mouse haha	05:13
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benson	Macer, do like http://xkcd.com/196/	05:23
benson	Fortunately there's no girl involved. ;)	05:24
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GeneralAntilles	Pavlov, pong?	07:58
Pavlov	hi	07:59
Pavlov	so, for uploading to extras it looks like we're supposed to upload a src deb.. know who i should ask a few questions about?	07:59
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GeneralAntilles	About creating a source deb or about uploading one?	08:00
Pavlov	more the former i guess	08:00
GeneralAntilles	Well, jeremiah is the official debmaster.	08:00
GeneralAntilles	But a lot of the people in here can help.	08:01
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800 might be around.	08:01
Pavlov	ok	08:03
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RST38h	Anyone knows how to parse .8Xu format?	08:49
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* ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:]		08:54
ENTERANICK	is there where you get help with web2irc	08:54
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johnx_	jbodman, what kind of help do you need?	09:24
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Jaffa	morning, all	10:06
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RST38h	moo johnx	10:06
johnx_	m00f RST38h	10:07
johnx_	morning Jaffa	10:07
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* johnx_ craves new hardware to hack on :/		10:16
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RST38h	http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/06/AR2009030603646.html?nav=igoogle	10:28
RST38h	WashPost at its best =)	10:28
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sans	How to set proxy from my application in maemo?	10:34
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RST38h	what proxy?	10:41
udovdh	hello	10:43
udovdh	anybody know where to find documentation	10:43
udovdh	on the n810 gps? (configuration, features, etc)	10:43
RST38h	maemo.org	10:43
RST38h	you have no direct access to n810 gps	10:43
sans	network proxy	10:43
udovdh	/dev/pgps	10:43
udovdh	http://search.maemo.org/search?q=gps+c+onfiguration&btnG=Search&site=maemo-org&client=maemo-org&proxystylesheet=maemo-org&output=xml_no_dtd	10:44
RST38h	But it is TI NaviLink GPS5300 part	10:44
udovdh	ok and how do I set what sentences I want?	10:44
udovdh	I know for navit that there are a few deamons in between	10:44
RST38h	a moment.	10:44
udovdh	but I want to check the raw gps device	10:44
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RST38h	http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.1/libgpsmgr-0.2/	10:45
udovdh	RST38h, thanks, will have a look	10:45
RST38h	http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.1/libgpsbt-0.2/	10:45
sans	i want to do proxy settings within my application for checking it on X86	10:45
RST38h	sans: 1. Install proxy, 2. make your application route accesses to localhost:<proxyport>	10:46
udovdh	RST38h, I just got navit to build for n810 using OpenEmbedded: http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Navit_on_OpenEmbedded_for_n810	10:46
udovdh	so I am now looking into these things	10:46
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sans	Install proxy ?	10:47
sans	RST38h:how do i install proxy?	10:49
sans	is there any api to set hostname and port number of proxy in my application	10:51
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sans	is there any api to set hostname and port number of proxy in my application	10:57
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RST38h	sans: No, should there be?	11:02
jaem_away	hey, all	11:04
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* RST38h is getting really weird haiku-like spam		11:04
jaem	haha	11:05
jaem	I just found an uber-cheap source for erbium-doped laser rods	11:05
RST38h	Am I missing something or is it simply a case of another nigerian using automatic translation?	11:05
jaem	and even cheaper xenon flash strobes	11:05
RST38h	jaem: You know what to do!	11:05
jaem	hehe... I do indeed	11:05
jaem	I'm not sure if we'll be able to get them across the border easily, though :(	11:05
sans	yeah it would be helpfull for me as i am deploping an app in GTK for which i have to connect to net but for that have to do proxy settings for my application	11:06
RST38h	Launch them straight into space.	11:06
jaem	um...?	11:06
jaem	I was thinking more like "build a laser"	11:06
* RST38h was thinking more like "build a freaking huge arrays of lasers and DESTROY DESTROY"		11:06
jaem	the rods are $20 each, presumably in decent condition, but sold "as-is"	11:06
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jaem	and the strobe to pump it is another $20	11:07
RST38h	afaik, end surfaces have to be treated in a special way	11:07
sans	yeah it would be helpfull for me as i am deploping an app in GTK for which i have to connect to net but for that have to do proxy settings for my application	11:07
jaem	yes, most likely	11:07
jaem	we're looking into it	11:07
jaem	but hey - it would be fun	11:07
RST38h	snas: You do all network access on your own	11:07
RST38h	sans: this includes proxying	11:07
RST38h	jaem: Depends on which government you are going to blackmail I guess...	11:08
jaem	lol... they're not that dangerous	11:08
RST38h	jaem: Or are you going for a planet-destroying-scale device?	11:08
jaem	they're the "burn your eyes clear through the back of your head" type, not the Death Star type	11:08
jaem	we're seriously considering it, and I have some contacts at my uni, and elsewhere	11:09
jaem	so it might work out :D	11:09
RST38h	fun!	11:09
jaem	indeed	11:10
RST38h	Now if someone told methe format of the .8xu file...	11:10
jaem	and dirt cheap, too	11:10
jaem	although the optics might be pricey	11:10
jaem	RST38h: did you try the usual places?	11:10
jaem	you could always try grovelling at TI - they won't give you the format spec, but they'd probably appreciate it ;)	11:11
* RST38h tried all possible places, no doughnut.		11:12
* RST38h is currently reverse engineering the damn format and it looks easy except that some data seems to go to the same location in rom		11:12
jaem	O_o	11:12
jaem	is Jeremiah's e-mail address listed somewhere?	11:12
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sans	RST38h: Didn't get u	11:13
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RST38h	sans: How do you access a web site?	11:23
sans	by typing its name :)	11:28
udovdh	after an apt-get update/upgrade I get:	11:29
udovdh	The following packages have been kept back:	11:29
udovdh	libdb4.2 libxml2	11:29
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udovdh	any idea why?	11:29
sans	what r u tryin to install	11:31
Stskeeps	morning	11:31
sans	udovdh:what r u tryin to install	11:31
udovdh	sans, just an update/upgrade thing	11:31
udovdh	nothing special	11:32
udovdh	I did	11:32
udovdh	apt-get update	11:32
udovdh	apt-get upgrade	11:32
Jaffa	jaem: not sure, google "jeremiah foster" and find his blog?	11:32
udovdh	and in upgrade I get these lines as part of the output	11:32
RST38h	sans: ok. what do you call "my program" then?	11:32
udovdh	The following packages have been kept back:	11:32
udovdh	libdb4.2 libxml2	11:32
* Stskeeps pokes his coffee		11:33
udovdh	hmmm	11:34
udovdh	apt-get dist-upgrade helps here!	11:34
jaem	Jaffa: I did, and it had his IM addresses, but no e-mail contact that I could see	11:34
udovdh	see http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/69	11:34
jaem	Sts: what does poking do, aside from scald your finger :P	11:34
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qwerty12	jaem, you can try jeremiah AT devmodul.com	11:38
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Stskeeps	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jeremiah	11:39
sans	RST38h: I am trying to get data from web and display in an application	11:41
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jaem	thanks	11:50
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jaem	g'night	11:50
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RST38h	sans: Sorry, either I do not understand what you are doing or you do not understand what you want to do yourself	11:55
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TCMAN-dmg	hi	12:09
TCMAN-dmg	i am kind of a n810 noob and i have bunch of questions	12:11
TCMAN-dmg	is anyone maintaining pidgin? it seems a bit outdated?	12:11
* qwerty12 blinks as his function to launch the file manager with the correct folder in transmission actually works		12:12
TCMAN-dmg	and is there any simple x11+openbox/fbpanel or lxde type gui for n810 instead of maemo?	12:13
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AStorm	hello	12:18
AStorm	I'm having a problem with battery monitor	12:18
AStorm	it seems locked up - either always says battery low	12:19
AStorm	or that it's always charging	12:19
AStorm	happened recently, after an invalid shutdown I guess	12:20
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qwerty12	The icon or when you tap it?	12:20
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AStorm	always, both	12:21
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AStorm	it responds to charger being connected	12:21
AStorm	but not to it being disconnected	12:22
qwerty12	Odd. If the icon doesn't animate when charging, "gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor" works for me but you may have a different problem	12:22
AStorm	yeah, it's some bme failure	12:22
AStorm	I'd like some help with this...	12:27
AStorm	don't know what to look for	12:27
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papagaj	hello!	12:35
papagaj	which repository do I have to enable in order to install sqlite3 cli	12:35
papagaj	into the scratchbox X86 environment?	12:36
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thopiekar	morning	12:51
thopiekar	why is it not possible to remove a project from garage.maemo.org?	12:51
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RST38h	because nobody needed it so far?	12:52
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thopiekar	:\|	12:52
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Corsac	mhm, with my last dist-upgrade on mer, the left buttons are not visible anymore	13:12
Corsac	it seems that all the “desktop” is shifted, in fact	13:13
qwerty12	http://jaiku.com/channel/mer/presence/55050860	13:13
Corsac	that's why :)	13:15
Corsac	thanks	13:15
AStorm	qwerty12, seems like refreshing the cache fixed it... wicked	13:15
qwerty12	X-Fade, you broke the chinook builder at least: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/chinook/transmission_1.40-2maemo3-1.34dgfix3/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt :)	13:16
Stskeeps	Corsac: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-closer.png	13:18
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Corsac	wow :)	13:24
Corsac	is there an ETA?	13:24
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AStorm	Stskeeps, build me Deluge	13:26
AStorm	;)	13:26
AStorm	transmission is worse	13:27
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Stskeeps	Corsac: all depends on when wazd shows up ;)	13:32
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Corsac	ok :)	13:32
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qwerty12	X-Fade, I lied. Sorry.	13:37
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* Myrtti hums a cheery tune		14:16
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* Jaffa sticks sofa beds, desks and office chairs up on ebay		14:17
Stskeeps	selling all your possessions for the preorder of RX-51? :P	14:21
Jaffa	Not quite :)	14:21
RST38h	TI82 added.	14:23
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lopz	hola	15:31
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Macer	hi	15:44
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Stskeeps	morning Meizirkki	15:46
Stskeeps	new ISP?	15:46
Meizirkki	morning	15:46
Meizirkki	no, i'm just not at home	15:46
Stskeeps	ah	15:46
Stskeeps	whoever came up with gobject will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes	15:47
Myrtti	I set my editor at my shellproviders to emacs and still my crontab -e throws me into vi ;____;	15:49
* Myrtti whimpers		15:49
Stskeeps	export VISUAL=emacs? export EDITOR=emacs?	15:49
* Stskeeps is a vim user but believes in choice :P		15:50
Myrtti	Stskeeps: I put it in .zshrc and started a new instance.	15:50
Myrtti	bah.	15:50
Stskeeps	(we were forced to use emacs at uni .. :P)	15:50
ShadowJK	we could use whatever we wanted at uni	15:50
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ShadowJK	they didn't particulary care about programming langue either :-)	15:50
Myrtti	I was taught how to do SQL92 with emacs and have loved it since	15:51
Myrtti	the professor is quite well known in emacsen, I believe... so I guess he was a bit partial	15:51
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: yeah, it was like that after a bit	15:51
* Stskeeps tries to find the needle in the haystack with hn-app-switcher		15:52
Myrtti	bah. I did manage to get the crontab there anyway	15:53
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Stskeeps	Myrtti: any good shopping list utilities for 770?	15:58
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* Stskeeps is trying to tablet-addict his fiancee :P		15:59
qwerty12_N800	build qt for 770 :p	15:59
Stskeeps	yeah, i was actually pondering that	16:00
qwerty12_N800	iirc, lbt has a older gtk version of shopper actually	16:00
Myrtti	Stskeeps: not that I know of, haven't looked. I'm usually happy if my tablet has pdf reader for viewing knitting patterns, mauku for microblog and osso-xterm and ssh for irssi	16:00
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lbt	I have	16:01
Stskeeps	hmm, that could be interesting	16:01
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lbt	There's a deb if you want it - it works well	16:02
Myrtti	it does sadden me that the amount of apps for 2007 (or OS2007HE2) is so small and installing the apps is such a pain in the rear	16:02
lbt	I think Mer is about making sure that's not a problem for the N8x0	16:02
qwerty12_N800	lbt: i may go for it - I don't have enough space for qt libs :)	16:03
Stskeeps	lbt: sure, url	16:03
lbt	one minute	16:03
Stskeeps	Myrtti: i'm worried that Mer is slow on 770s :/ i am really amazed how 2007he runs on it though	16:03
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Stskeeps	http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-oknotperfect.png	16:05
johnx	hot!	16:05
Jaffa	Stskeeps: wow, getting there :-)	16:05
Jaffa	Where've the status bar applets gone?	16:05
lbt	Stskeeps: I hope : http://shopper.garage.maemo.org/shopper_0.3.5_armel.deb	16:05
johnx	did it take much hacking to make the task switcher work horizontal?	16:06
Stskeeps	johnx: i have considered once or twice getting whoever did hn-app-switcher drunk and getting him/her to do it for me.	16:06
johnx	the 'drunk' part is a bribe or a comment about the code?	16:07
Stskeeps	both, i guess	16:07
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lbt	qwerty12_N800: how much does it say it must download for the Qt version of shopper?	16:08
qwerty12_N800	lbt: ~16MB, will take ~40MB when installed	16:09
lbt	I'll look at the dependencies - it's supposed to only need a subset of Qt	16:09
Stskeeps	lbt: ok, doesn't work in 2007he, but that's what i get for running an old OS :P	16:11
lbt	shame - I did have a chinook version IIRC	16:11
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Stskeeps	i'll just have to get Mer working on it properly :P	16:14
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Stskeeps	johnx: i'm just not sure if i like a constant dropdown instead like..	16:19
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incinerator_	hello, can anyone help me with bluetooth DUN setup?	16:20
johnx	Stskeeps, have you used anything with normal matchbox where you click on the titlebar to switch apps?	16:20
Stskeeps	no idea, i disabled the mb titlebar	16:20
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Stskeeps	johnx: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-dropdownapps.png	16:21
johnx	IMNSHO one click to switch apps is nicer	16:21
Stskeeps	yeah	16:21
johnx	but it depends on how many you're running I guess	16:21
johnx	aaah, and have that in addition?	16:21
incinerator_	i'm trying to let my brand-new n810 connect to the PC via bluetooth DUN and pppd	16:21
johnx	I do like that	16:21
incinerator_	but pppd always does a modem hangup	16:21
Stskeeps	incinerator_: Bluetooth PAN might be easier	16:22
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thopiekar	Stskeeps: -> #mer :P	16:24
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Stskeeps	johnx: i think wazd's idea is basically Applications Menu, Menu (formerly titlebar), Running apps (+ switcher), Statusbar	16:31
lbt	hmm qwerty12_N800 I removed all the qt libraries and it still needs 7/19Mb - I think that's as modular as it gets right now :)	16:31
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qwerty12_N800	lbt: hehe, I really need to clone :D (although this card is slow :(, on a diablo extracted from the rootfs, I get stalling when booted from card :/)	16:33
Stskeeps	johnx: and adjustment of how many apps can be contained in running apps (number of items)	16:33
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: agreed, that's how I understand his mockup	16:37
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lbt	so about xrandr...	16:48
lbt	someone said the new kernel has i	16:48
lbt	t	16:48
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lbt	jott: ping	17:01
qwerty12_N800	~seen jott	17:01
infobot	jott is currently on #maemo, last said: ':)'.	17:01
lbt	http://www.sse2.net/rotate/ refers to osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked_1%3a5.2008.43-7_all.deb which isn't there...	17:02
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qwerty12_N800	He hasn't said anything on #maemo for a few months :/	17:03
lbt	just a ghost presence then...	17:03
lbt	I think the %3a in that url may be wrong	17:04
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lcuk	lbt, he is not a ghost presence, however the fontsize of his responses is measured using complex numbers	17:14
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lbt	<grin>	17:15
lbt	well, if he's not here you'll do ....	17:15
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lcuk	qwerty knows more about rotation lol	17:15
qwerty12_N800	not really :)	17:16
lbt	oh well...	17:16
lcuk	jott managed to almost kill liqbase at the summit	17:16
qwerty12_N800	<-- never dealed with libxrandr	17:16
lbt	this page http://outpo.st/rotate/ of jott's	17:16
lcuk	my mmc could not handle the speed boost	17:16
lbt	has 2 debs	17:16
lbt	http://www.sse2.net/rotate/ refers to 3	17:16
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qwerty12_N800	lcuk: burn your weakling mmc!	17:16
lcuk	ok	17:17
lbt	osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked_1%3a5.2008.43-7_all.deb is missing	17:17
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lcuk	wasnt there meant to be a kernel quilt built up of all these patches	17:17
lcuk	and wasnt qwerty involved :P	17:17
qwerty12_N800	i'm a member of community kernels but I dunno if that's ever gonna be active :/ : here's what I came up with : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/kernel/uber_kernel.diff	17:19
lcuk	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26758	17:19
lcuk	lbt ^	17:19
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lbt	%3a is a ":"	17:20
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lcuk	http://wiki.maemo.org/Rotation	17:20
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lbt	I thought Diablo updates didn't need flash anymore and happened through the net...	17:25
lbt	so why am I on OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION='4.2008.30-2'	17:25
lcuk	you still need a flashable version to get started	17:26
lbt	hmm I think my memory is going... do I need to do 'one last flash'	17:27
lcuk	i dont think so	17:30
lbt	apt-get install osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked	17:30
lcuk	i recall something about people having a backass version number but still being updated	17:30
lcuk	34 is the 800 isnt it	17:30
lbt	yes	17:30
* lcuk thought you had an 810		17:30
lbt	no	17:31
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lbt	external GPS	17:31
lbt	so when I mentioned shopper+GPS you probably linked it to 810	17:31
lcuk	you have gps for shopper?	17:32
lbt	soon	17:32
lcuk	is that so you can find your way back to the cheese?	17:32
lbt	it was supposed to be	17:32
lcuk	lol need indoor gps	17:32
lbt	but GPS and Sainsburys don't work	17:32
lbt	I tried	17:32
lcuk	you could have your helpers standing with mirrors to deflect signals around and out the windows	17:33
* lcuk enlists his children		17:33
lbt	hmm, my ssh based install just said:	17:34
lbt	Stopping Internet Connectivity daemon 2: icd2	17:34
lbt	and then nothing...	17:34
lcuk	lol	17:34
lcuk	why does it cull icd?	17:35
lbt	I just did	17:35
lbt	apt-get install osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked	17:35
qwerty12	Leave it, it'll reconnect	17:35
lbt	which appears to be doing a catchup	17:35
lbt	qwerty12: yep - I ran top on the machine	17:35
lbt	and dpkg is busy	17:35
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lbt	my tablet is telling me football scores	17:38
lbt	I bloody hate football	17:38
lbt	I'd rather have Skype	17:39
lbt	Aaaargh	17:39
lbt	still, I guess the upgrade didn't brick anything...	17:39
lbt	hey lcuk - have you tried shopper 0.5.5 ?	17:40
lcuk	ive not got any space on my /, certainly not enough for qt	17:41
* lcuk will do soon		17:41
lbt	excuses	17:41
lcuk	shopper is the principle hello world app for qt :) you are a gateway drug	17:41
lcuk	tisnt excuses david, very impressed you have got something simple and usable in qt, it will be important to adoption	17:41
lbt	trolltech bribed me	17:41
lcuk	lol	17:42
lbt	I just want your opinion on the finger scrolling and gestures	17:42
lcuk	is it in extras?	17:42
* lcuk will put it on the other one		17:42
lbt	it is	17:43
lcuk	cool, ill get tracy to do it whilst im rebuilding her pooter	17:43
lbt	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/shopper/	17:43
lcuk	no good now, she can search lol	17:43
lcuk	have you left both versions of shopper available?	17:43
lbt	it's still on the downloads page	17:43
lcuk	or is there only 1 listed	17:44
lbt	only 1	17:44
lcuk	good	17:44
lbt	I just uploaded the gtk version though	17:44
lbt	if anyone needs it	17:44
lcuk	what so if i install from extras now its the gtk one?	17:44
lbt	But let me say I hate Antony Dovgal	17:44
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lbt	no, sorry, extras is qt	17:45
lbt	but someone asked for the gtk	17:45
lbt	so I uploaded the deb to the website	17:45
lcuk	Myrtti and her 770	17:45
lbt	no links to it or anything	17:45
lbt	yes that was it	17:45
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lcuk	ill bbl :) ill let you know	17:45
lbt	is Chinook == 770 ?	17:46
Myrtti	I've got bora since I'm using OS2007HE2	17:46
lbt	OK - hmmm	17:46
qwerty12	Chinook is the first edition of OS2008, 4.0. Diablo is the second edition, 4.1.	17:46
lbt	not sure if I can build shopper for Bora	17:46
lbt	qwerty12: you'll know... can I setup a scratchbox for Bora	17:47
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qwerty12	You should be able to, I've got my scratchbox set up for the Fremantle alpha & Diablo.	17:48
lbt	Myrtti: do you want shopper/gtk?	17:48
Myrtti	lbt: pls ♥	17:48
lbt	OK - no promises...	17:48
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qwerty12	lbt, you can run the http://repository.maemo.org/stable/3.1/maemo-sdk-install_3.1.sh script	17:49
qwerty12	But check you have the scratchbox packages mentioned in http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.1/INSTALL.txt installed	17:50
lbt	I'm mostly worried about the gtkmm bits	17:51
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lcuk	lbt - shopper is there but qt isnt	18:11
thopiekar	qt is in extras-devel....	18:11
thopiekar	even not ready for extras i think..	18:11
thopiekar	or what do you mean?	18:12
lcuk	thats the point - shopper cqannot be installed without needing devel	18:12
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b-man	thopiekar: i herd you said i could not get AWN running on my tablet, so i did XD - http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/screenshots/Screenshot-10.png	18:14
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b-man	XD	18:14
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lbt	lcuk: oh, I didn't realise that - grr - this is another reason we need extras, extras-test and extras-experimental	18:20
lcuk	lbt no, its the problem of using thne unreleased lib unfortunately, and its outside yyourf ontrol	18:22
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lcuk	i would like to signup for specific testing of specific apps	18:23
lcuk	insstead of all apps from -devel	18:23
lbt	yeah	18:23
lbt	that's hard	18:23
lcuk	and i hate 810 kb lol	18:23
lcuk	bbl anyway	18:23
lbt	'k l8r	18:24
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lbt	GeneralAntilles: ping	18:24
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lcuk	lbt 7 mb download	18:27
lcuk	i see cheese bacon	18:27
lbt	thought you might...	18:27
lcuk	i click add new	18:27
lcuk	bottomleft	18:28
lcuk	keyboard is locked in Fn mode	18:28
lbt	ah, now that I can't test...	18:28
lcuk	it wont let me type letters	18:28
lbt	maybe that's why Qt isn't in extras <grin>	18:29
lbt	what happens if you close the keyboard?	18:30
lbt	do you get the virtual one?	18:30
lcuk	sunno	18:30
lcuk	d	18:30
lbt	https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=3482&group_id=424&atid=1605	18:31
lbt	??	18:31
lcuk	no	18:31
lcuk	david im vncing from tracys machine cant click	18:31
lbt	err	18:32
lbt	on what?	18:32
lbt	virt keyb?	18:33
Jaffa	Hmm, I can't run af-sb-init.sh start on my fremantle install; all that happens is a whole load of messages with two looking particularly nasty	18:34
lcuk	810 im touchtyping on the thumbboard lol	18:34
Jaffa	matchbox: No composite extension	18:34
Jaffa	matchbox-window-manager: Error OOM?	18:34
Jaffa	So, any thoughts on how I get Xephyr to have a composite extension?	18:36
qwerty12	Jaffa, in FREMANTLE_X86? Also, use "Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac &" to launch Xephyr. (Mainly, don't have -extension Composite in there - sounds counterproductive but it only works if I don't have it in there)	18:36
Jaffa	qwerty12: Ah, I didn't think I did have it, but I do. Ta. Will remove & retry	18:37
Jaffa	Aha, much better.	18:38
Jaffa	Ta muchly	18:38
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qwerty12	np	18:38
lbt	lcuk: is it working yet?	18:43
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b-man	Stskeeps: how did you get the camera to work in cheese? - i remember you doing it but i've forgotten how	18:57
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lbt	well rotation in Shopper 'just works' after installing the right kernel ;)	19:08
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sp3000	GeneralAntilles, the Rabid Defender :P	19:28
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sp3000	lolmark	19:29
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guysoft42	hey, i seem to have lost audio capability in the debian chroot. does anyone know what could be the cause?	19:56
* FireFox3 needs to find a more practical way to manage his repository - it's getting larger wich means it's taking longer to re-image		20:05
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FireFox3	(i'm on average uploading 300-450 files every time :P)	20:05
guysoft42	FireFox3, what repo?	20:06
FireFox3	ubuntu-n8x0	20:06
FireFox3	i'm adding e17 to it atm	20:07
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FireFox3	i need a way to just upload individual packages without having to re-upload the entire repository	20:10
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GeneralAntilles	lbt, pong?	20:22
GeneralAntilles	sp3000, rawr!	20:22
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GeneralAntilles	sp3000, I had to unsubscribe after I started getting off-list flames.	20:26
GeneralAntilles	Just not worth it.	20:26
sp3000	that's ...nice	20:27
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GeneralAntilles	I wonder if Nokia's going to fuck us with the new categories.	20:29
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FireFox3	wb qwerty12_N800	20:33
qwerty12_N800	hi FireFox3	20:33
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* RST38h moos gleefully		20:37
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GeneralAntilles	I will laugh so hard if Nokia ships before the Pandora.	20:46
FireFox3	hehe	20:46
qwerty12_N800	Pandora shipping? In another world... :)	20:46
GeneralAntilles	In the 7th dimension.	20:47
qwerty12_N800	hehe	20:48
FireFox3	lol	20:48
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GeneralAntilles	I'll laugh even harder if they ship it and the damn things fall to pieces.	20:48
fireun	buckaroo bonzai	20:48
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FireFox3	in a parallel universe	20:48
FireFox3	lol	20:49
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: I'd put a fiver on Nokia shipping first now	20:49
* qwerty12_N800 has an itch for an WinMo phone after playing with my sister's Xperia X1. Shame MS's bluetooth stack sucks balls		20:50
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, yeah, it seems likely.	20:50
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, get a life.	20:50
RST38h	qwerty: WinMo is pure horror. Avoid.	20:50
* GeneralAntilles chuckles at qwerty12_N800 picking the Bluetooth stack of all things.		20:50
FireFox3	qwerty12_n800: bad idea	20:50
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GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, it's just the unfed gadget addiction talking.	20:51
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, wait for Nokia to get you a real fix. :P	20:51
qwerty12_N800	RST38h: sorry, was an avid winmo user before I had a tablet :p	20:52
RST38h	qwerty: My condolences =)	20:52
qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles: yeah, I'll see if the next device is the shit :p	20:52
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* FireFox3 allmost bough a ipod touch before he bough his N800, thank god i didn't buy thr ipod touch XD		20:52
FireFox3	*the	20:53
FireFox3	*bought :P	20:53
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b-man	hello, Meizirkki :)	20:58
* b-man wonders why no one has botherd packaging the murrine configuration editor, ti should not be too hard to do :P		20:58
* b-man hates his keyboard today :P		20:58
Meizirkki	b-man, hi :P	20:59
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Meizirkki	Does Mers first-boot-wizard store username in some file???	21:04
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Meizirkki	or, is there any file that all usernames are stored?	21:08
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slonopotamus	Meizirkki, /etc/passwd?	21:10
Meizirkki	thanks :)	21:11
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* _Brian_ wonders whare Stskeeps is :P		21:11
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GeneralAntilles	lardman\|gone, the Halo Wars box has a barcode for mobile phones on it.	21:23
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lcukx41	~lart windowsxp	21:39
* infobot gets a hotmal account and SPAMs windowsxp		21:39
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lbt	GeneralAntilles: I forgot why I pinged you - possibly to ask about Qt and extras-devel....	21:41
lbt	Oh yes - do you have an 800 or an 810? lcuk is having keyboard problems and I wondered if you were too	21:43
lbt	oh, and do you have the xrandr kernel installed?	21:43
lcukx41	lol im having a different keyboard problem, jake just got hold of my desktop again	21:43
lbt	heh	21:43
lbt	I'll be back in a bit - got to beat the wife	21:44
lbt	at wii tennis	21:44
lcukx41	heh	21:44
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Jaffa	lby: esddup?	21:54
Jaffa	lbt: wassup?	21:54
Jaffa	(with extras-devel and qt)	21:55
timelE61i	hello world	21:55
Jaffa	lo timelE61i	21:55
lcukx41	jaffa, i installed shopper on my 810, but clicking new gave me ONLY numerics and "£$£$^$% type characters	21:56
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timelE61i	bTw, why did shopper spam community?	21:59
lcukx41	spam? it was an announcment from the community to the community i thought	22:00
timelE61i	should each app do that?	22:01
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lcukx41	timelE61i upto community members depending on if its listened to or not	22:04
lcukx41	ie their choice	22:04
lcukx41	surely more traffic to a community discussion mailing list which is NOT about bitching and moaning is a good thing	22:05
timelE61i	heh	22:05
timelE61i	i suppose it could be worse	22:06
timelE61i	Mozilla dev planning has people complaining that the firefox after 3.0 will be 3.5 instead of 3:1	22:06
sp3000	we could have a flamewar about announcements :P	22:06
* timelE61i imagines maemo people insisting maemo 5.0 should be 4.2		22:07
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timelE61i	sp3000: btw, we've been asked to do daily reporting	22:08
sp3000	oh joy	22:08
timelE61i	Predicting using our tea leave reading skills all the bugs we'll fix that day	22:08
timelE61i	So i suggest you buy some tea leaves and get some practice time in	22:09
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sp3000	me fix bugs? :P	22:09
timelE61i	The requirement was for everyone :)	22:10
* timelE61i fixed one bug for the week		22:10
* sp3000 grumbles		22:10
sp3000	I should get a new chair	22:10
lcukx41	gah timeless, you could just put yourself on 1 simple one per day but constantly do more than you say and gain a rep as a superman!	22:10
lcukx41	lol	22:10
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derf	Start with, "Today I will dork around on the internet."	22:11
timelE61i	sp3000, i didn't know you were a good chair thrower	22:11
RST38h	Anyone wants to test the new AT85?	22:11
sp3000	this one feels like an irc rofl will turn into a real rofl all of a sudden at some point	22:11
RST38h	(still missing faceplates for TI82 and TI83+, so it is not going to extras yet)	22:11
timelE61i	Lcuk: we predict we'll spend all day predicting instead of getting work done	22:11
lcukx41	yeah sounds like policy in some places ive worked	22:12
derf	Why is it missing faceplates?	22:12
sp3000	well, you just need to apply more buzwords	22:12
derf	Just haven't gotten to them yet, or...?	22:12
sp3000	timebox the predicting! :D	22:12
RST38h	derf: Wazd is doing the faceplates and I am afraid he is out of town for the long weekend	22:12
lcukx41	faceplate designer has gone awol lol	22:12
sp3000	buzz even	22:12
derf	Ah, okay.	22:12
timelE61i	sp3000: well, i finished my arch doc on friday	22:13
* sp3000 suggests a timebox of 20 seconds		22:13
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timelE61i	Qa complained it had too many buzzwords in the first paragraph	22:13
timelE61i	Something about html/xhtml useragent	22:13
Stskeeps	how can you avoid buzzwords in a browser arch doc? :P	22:14
lcukx41	easy, make up your new ones	22:14
* sp3000 idly wonders what a facepalmtree looks like		22:14
lcukx41	lol	22:14
timelE61i	sts: by saving everyone time by not writing/having one	22:15
sp3000	oddly, google image search fails me	22:15
timelE61i	It's not like anyone will read it	22:15
timelE61i	Sadly, one of our engineers said he could have used it when he first arrived	22:15
Stskeeps	i'd love to see the spec doc on hn-app-switcher.c, especially since i can't make heads or tails of it..	22:15
lcukx41	does it work on device now	22:16
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* Stskeeps goes dive back into it		22:16
lbt	Jaffa: Qt is (apparently) in extras-devel but shopper (in extras) depends on it...	22:16
lbt	timelE61i: what I can't market my product with an ANNOUNCE ;)	22:17
timelE61i	If it doesn't work out of the box?	22:17
timelE61i	No ;)	22:17
lbt	which box?	22:17
timelE61i	But i think you want -announce@	22:18
* suihkulokki wonders when the word "facepalm" slipped into common use		22:18
lbt	wasn't aware of an -announce	22:18
Stskeeps	lcukx41: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-dropdownapps.png	22:18
timelE61i	you could make one :)	22:18
derf	suihkulokki: About 3 years ago?	22:18
lbt	I just merged it into community	22:18
timelE61i	Derf: i think it was older	22:19
derf	It has existed for longer, sure.	22:19
derf	But he said "common".	22:19
lbt	Stskeeps: it's looking really really good :)	22:19
timelE61i	sTs: i'm assuming that file is a stub	22:19
lcukx41	lbt, im surprised the extras promotion let your app thorough since its deps are not available from extras	22:19
Stskeeps	lbt: i'm not at all happy with the code i had to manipulate to get that working though	22:19
lcukx41	Stskeeps: yeah agree with lbt :)	22:20
lbt	lcukx41: I agree - I'm not happy	22:20
Stskeeps	timelE61i: well, this particular interface is just functionality, artwork is when i grab wazd	22:20
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timelE61i	Yeah please file a bug against promoter	22:20
timelE61i	It's clearly broken	22:20
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Stskeeps	timelE61i: this is hildon-desktop non-fremantle, multitasking isn't in fremantle just yet	22:20
lbt	Stskeeps: OK where's Mer at? what's the best way to help? Porting things? testing things?	22:20
lcukx41	lbt, its something that we should get solved asap because if others start adding randomly to -devel it causes problems	22:21
Stskeeps	lbt: grab a vmdk and start playing, really	22:21
Stskeeps	timelE61i: namespace clash, sorry :)	22:21
lbt	vmdk.... not scratchbox?	22:21
timelE61i	sbox=evil	22:22
Meizirkki	lbt: make a "tablet-gdm", that shows a user list and doesn't ask for a password :P	22:22
Meizirkki	just a suggestion	22:22
Meizirkki	it would be good for n800 users ;)	22:22
Stskeeps	lbt: correct, mer on x86 is practically the same as on tablet.. scratchbox is just a cross-compilation accelerator	22:22
Stskeeps	you could also compile natively	22:22
Stskeeps	our builders go x86 (has to compile) -> scratchbox (do an accelerated build if possible) -> native armel (if sb failed)	22:23
Stskeeps	so if you implement some feature or whatever on the vmdk, it most likely is buildable on tablet too	22:23
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lbt	start here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints ?	22:23
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Stskeeps	i'd start out by grabbing a vmdk really and trying it out, and then if it fits your ideas of a sane system to start helping out with, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/People and then the sprints :)	22:24
Stskeeps	vmdk can run in virtualbox & vmware, and we provide raw images for the rest	22:24
Stskeeps	vmdk = the -actual- mer system	22:24
lbt	I was/am actually looking for a vmdk link...	22:25
lbt	get the release 0.9 one?	22:25
Stskeeps	yeah	22:26
Stskeeps	http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.9#Generic_x86_-_VMDK_.28VMware_disk_image.29	22:26
Stskeeps	it helps a lot on development you can practically test it right away on the actual system :P	22:27
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lbt	alright - I'll start dl'ing and setting up...	22:30
lbt	cheers	22:30
timelE61i	setup? Double click	22:31
lbt	double click - just higlights a word	22:31
timelE61i	you need xmlterm :)	22:32
lbt	right now I'm on a vanilla kernel and don't have vmware or virtualbox...	22:32
timelE61i	Sp3000, ever used it?	22:32
lbt	I run xen on another machine but that isn't ideal	22:32
sp3000	for several minutes, a few years ago	22:33
lcukx41	lbt, it installs on device almost painlessly, ive even managed it/1	22:33
lcukx41	!!!	22:33
timelE61i	heh	22:33
lbt	even though I've got a hacked bootmenu?	22:33
lcukx41	oooer then if you already hacked that you should know lol	22:33
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lbt	yeah - I forgot ... it's the alzhei oooh pretty..... hey - Mer looks cool	22:34
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timelE61i	people seem to like virtualbox...	22:34
* timelE61i practices stair climbing		22:35
* qwerty12_N800 a vmware person		22:35
* lbt a debian person		22:35
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* timelE61i grumbles		22:35
* qwerty12_N800 a ms-dos person		22:35
timelE61i	debian hurt my xen prospects	22:35
lbt	? I run xen on debian	22:36
lbt	I run xen because of debian	22:36
* timelE61i wants to run debian on xen		22:36
lbt	I do that - it's easy	22:36
lbt	you need 2.6.26-1-xen-686	22:37
timelE61i	pv?	22:37
lbt	yes	22:37
lbt	:D	22:37
timelE61i	Wanna walk me through it some time?	22:38
lbt	http://pastebin.com/d79b5af9a	22:38
lbt	sure	22:38
lbt	to make life easy prep some lvm2 space	22:39
timelE61i	Um host =snv107 iirc	22:40
lbt	oh - that pastebin is from when I ran 2.6.2	22:40
lbt	2.6.18	22:40
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timelE61i	So the store is zfs...	22:40
* timeless tries to stop using the phone		22:40
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Stskeeps	hehe	22:47
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lbt	qwerty12_N800: I don't think bora has libgtkmm - where's the bora pool?	22:51
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qwerty12_N800	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/bora/	22:54
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* lbt facepalms		22:57
lbt	nah - there's no gtkmm in there ...	22:58
lbt	Sorry Myrtti - looks like we'll need Qt on Mer on 770	22:59
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Myrtti	lbt: ok, I'll just wait until I get my hands on my n800 and enjoy	23:01
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lbt	don't forget you'll need extras-devel accessible in order to get Qt	23:02
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RST38h	ehlo, Myrtti	23:07
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Stskeeps	i think after spending a couple of hours together with GTK, i actually want to learn Qt.	23:10
Myrtti	RST38h: ack	23:10
lbt	Stskeeps: I spent a long time learning gtk for shopper and binned it :) IMHO it's not a decision you'll regret	23:11
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lcuk	david, your experiences with gtk and qt do make a compelling case for switching.	23:15
lcuk	lbt, what was your biggest problem with gtk though	23:16
lbt	it wasn't as well designed, the docs were poor and there was no-one to help	23:17
lbt	that's for C++	23:17
lbt	I wrote a few lines of C based gtk and went to find alcohol	23:17
lbt	and I'm almost teetotal !	23:17
Stskeeps	ah, so that's what that feeling is	23:17
lcuk	+1 lol	23:18
lbt	gtk per se isn't bad	23:18
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lbt	the wrappings let it down for mw	23:18
lbt	me	23:18
lbt	when I converted my gtk app to Qt I almost did a text replace on the functions	23:19
lbt	they are eerily similar	23:19
lcuk	i can see how that would be	23:19
lbt	however - all the "this hack 'cos this doesn't work" bits	23:19
lcuk	isn't vala geared around giving the c++ style coding but also giving gtk at your fingertips	23:19
lbt	were commented out :)	23:19
lcuk	heh, thats not the widget set, thats your mind :P	23:20
lbt	nah - there were some genuine gtk bugs that I hit too easily	23:20
lcuk	Jaffa, am i right about vala being geared towards gtk and gobject in general?	23:20
lbt	heck - helloworld shouldn't find bugs in a toolkit!	23:20
lcuk	lol	23:21
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, tracy FINALLY has a rebuilt computer btw	23:21
qwerty12_N800	hehe :)	23:21
lcuk	i ended up physically installing xp on it first then wiping all files and replacing with hers (cos no matter what i couldnt get the mbr/boot sector working)	23:22
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lcuk	lbt, would you consider hacking at the default widgets to give touch fingerability to be easier than making new/subclassing alternatives?	23:23
qwerty12_N800	was this the computer that wouldn't run much?	23:24
lcuk	its the computer that runs sims perfectly	23:24
qwerty12_N800	ah	23:24
woglinde	jo	23:24
lcuk	its the answer to everyones prayers, cos there is not enough windows to be hacked	23:24
lbt	depends what you mean	23:24
lbt	size?	23:24
lcuk	gestures kinetics etc	23:25
lcuk	size is style based	23:25
lbt	http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qapplication.html#globalStrut-prop	23:25
woglinde	qt kinetcs will be part of qt release in 4.6 or so	23:25
woglinde	animationframework too	23:25
lbt	oh - Stskeeps you ought to skim the Qt docs - you'll cream yourself...	23:26
lcuk	size doesnt really bother me, ill have to look more closely but the thought of just using the default widgets but with a touch basis would be nice	23:26
lbt	woglinde: you do Qt don't you...	23:26
lcuk	however the default events fire incorrectly for lists etc (ie you get the click instead of it moving the list)	23:26
woglinde	lbt I read the blogs	23:26
lbt	oh, OK	23:26
lbt	I was looking for info about Qt 4.4 and extras	23:27
woglinde	lbt hm?	23:27
lcuk	i think its gnutons domain	23:27
woglinde	lcuk jupp	23:27
woglinde	in the diablo extras-devel is qt4.5 now	23:27
lbt	I've been a bit embarassed - I released shopper to extras only to find the dependencies are in extras-devel	23:27
lbt	<blush>	23:28
lcuk	lbt, and i had to enable it to get it on, btw 7mb for the install was reasonable	23:28
woglinde	and after mysql hitting the repo too you have the qt-sql driver for it too	23:28
lbt	I really must get back to porting ldap	23:28
lcuk	i always thought a widget toolkit should use libraries where possible, why does qt need complete internal versions thereof	23:28
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lbt	they're multi-platform	23:29
lcuk	ie webkit sqlite etc	23:29
woglinde	lcuk hm?	23:29
lcuk	lbt, the libraries are as well	23:29
lcuk	ie just makes the footprint larger for your apps	23:29
lbt	not always	23:29
woglinde	webkit team is part of formerly know trolltech	23:29
woglinde	lcuk abstraction	23:30
lcuk	woglinde, ahh	23:30
woglinde	you have a well definied way in qt how to access sql stuff	23:30
lbt	back to the widgets - if you want the behaviour to be different then yes, you need to subclass	23:30
woglinde	so you can change the backend as you want	23:30
lcuk	woglinde, surely they can have their own wrappers (like i do)	23:30
woglinde	I guess	23:30
lbt	but I think there's a fair effort to make it touchable	23:30
lcuk	i understand it from one perspective, but from another it doesnt help	23:31
lcuk	ie if sqlite needs bugfixes, and i update libsqlite on my machine it should fix all apps using sqlite, but in qt's case it doesnt	23:32
lbt	are you sure?	23:32
lbt	what OS?	23:32
lcuk	from that i gathered i might be wrong on the specific but its what ive heard	23:32
* lcuk factchecks		23:33
woglinde	hm	23:33
woglinde	depends	23:33
woglinde	you might have to relink other apps too	23:33
lbt	in general it would use the shared library	23:33
woglinde	jupp	23:33
lbt	it's pretty rare to be statically linked	23:33
lcuk	is it just webkit then that im mixing up?>	23:33
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lbt	maybe - that's a bit special	23:33
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lbt	I could excuse that it needs to be hacked to fit into a completely alien gui framework	23:34
woglinde	lcuk you have to have in mind that there are serval firms which bought a commercial license from qt and dont know much about linux stuff	23:34
lcuk	heh, sounds like a microsoft excuse for internet explorer ;)	23:34
woglinde	for them they have packed the picture libs and sql inside	23:34
lcuk	woglinde, im just pondering out loud, as i said i can see both sides	23:35
lcuk	i would just love to have qt baseline - which is the core widgets themselves	23:35
lbt	timelE61i: oh virtualbox is up and looking pretty ... waiting for the vdk now...	23:35
woglinde	and I think qt is a great toolkit	23:35
lcuk	i agree woglinde	23:36
* lcuk writes some drunken code		23:36
lbt	lcuk: don't forget you can write Qt apps and have them run native on 'the other thing'	23:36
woglinde	lcuk hm but it is capsulated a lot	23:36
woglinde	you dont need a whole .net framework	23:36
lcuk	heh woglinde, i have the same issues with that	23:37
woglinde	so time for another epsidode of one piece	23:37
lcuk	yeah lbt, thats a REAL benefit of qt, but when you tell businesses it does that, they write a big complex windows app and complain when it doesnt run on something smaller	23:38
* lcuk prefers to scale upwards		23:38
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dick-richardson	can someone ls -lha on the symlink in the home directory?	23:41
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timeless	lbt: so um... are those 10. addresses magical for xen?	23:47
timeless	wow, i had a 'repair wifi' dialog from wXP which got stuck, and it prevented my laptop from suspending	23:48
Stskeeps	i kinda think it's sad that Nokia seems to be the only ones who have gotten a internet connection daemon which actually seems fairly sane.. :P	23:49
lbt	timeless no, my LAN is 10.0.0.1/24	23:49
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lbt	Stskeeps: Mer1 is alive - that was actually too easy (once I'd compiled an installed a virtual machine kernel driver for my running kernel without rebooting - god I love linux... no, "please restart now" crap!!)	23:51
woglinde	kvm?	23:51
lbt	virtualbox	23:51
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Stskeeps	lbt: neato :)	23:53
lbt	yeah - now, where's the code!!	23:53
lbt	unless timeless wants to play with Xen?	23:53
Stskeeps	hehe, all around :P code.launchpad.net/m-r is a start	23:53
lbt	oh my deity	23:53
lbt	are you using a build system like, erm...	23:54
lbt	handhelds.org	23:54
lbt	erm	23:54
woglinde	you mean oe	23:54
Stskeeps	basically they're debian source packages all of them, and we have an imager of sorts that generate the various OS'es..	23:54
lbt	openembedded	23:55
lbt	oe	23:55
Stskeeps	so we build them like debian packages should be built, dpkg-buildpackage and upload to a repo ;)	23:55
lbt	yep - oe is a meta build system	23:55
Stskeeps	that approach does have problems but it works	23:55
lbt	it runs dpkg-build on all the sources...	23:56
lbt	IIRC	23:56
lbt	but you're not and that's OK	23:56
Stskeeps	yeah	23:56
Stskeeps	we pin on top of ubuntu so it makes it difficult	23:56
lbt	you have seen it though : http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Main_Page	23:57
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Stskeeps	i figured if we were going to use OE or anything we might as well be doing Mamona :P	23:57
woglinde	maona is based on oe	23:58
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lbt	I only know it from my openzaurus days	23:58
Stskeeps	nod	23:59

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