IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-02-23

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GAN8001ATHF and maemo.org splash screens are now available in Extras-devel for anyone who is interested.00:03
GAN8001(thanks, qwerty12_N800!)00:03
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* qwerty12_N800 does an "apt-get update" :)00:08
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geoaxismy gps sucks :(00:16
GAN8001Downloads is so slow. :(00:18
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GAN8001qwerty12_N800!00:33
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qwerty12_N800yessir?00:33
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GAN8001Nevermind. :P00:34
qwerty12_N800Fine. :P00:34
GAN8001Jeeesus christ, though, could Downloads possibly be slower. . . .00:34
qwerty12_N800the real fun is when you upload images...00:35
GAN8001Didn't we get a server upgrade. . . .00:36
GAN8001Or did X-Fade's porn habit just nullify all of the improvements? ;)00:36
timelE61isOo...00:38
timelE61iHam's oo-disk handling sucks00:38
timelE61iIt's killed apt a couple of times now00:38
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GAN8001Maemo's oo-disk handling sucks period.00:39
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timelE61iHrm, autoremove just made my tablet reboot00:47
* timelE61i hopes it didn't remove something critical00:47
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GAN8001Nice, server error after 10 minutes of uploading screenshots.00:48
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ChriKOk, I have run into a bit of a snag with Mer01:10
ChriKAfter some bruteforcing I managed to get it to boot01:11
ChriKThe screen with the loading bar finsihed, I was able to enter username, password and devicename01:11
ChriKBut now the screen is black, responds to taps though by lighting the backlight01:11
ChriKRestarting it does the same thing. Any good ideas?01:12
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GAN8001OK, it's been submitting this new application entry for 40 minutes.01:27
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ProteousMAEMO.ORG ISN'T SLOW, STOP SAYING THAT, YOU'LL HURT IT'S FEELINGS01:45
Proteousdamn01:45
ProteousI used it's wrongly01:46
* Proteous beats himself01:46
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m-cGeneralAntilles: hello - how are you?01:57
m-caround tonight?01:57
m-cI am curious whether this project can be used for improving ogg theora playback on the NITs02:03
m-chttp://wiki.neurostechnology.com/index.php/Summer_of_Code_2008/Ogg_Theora_Codec02:03
m-chttp://github.com/marceloguedes/theora-davinci/tree/master02:03
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GAN8001m-c, kulve is the one to talk to about ogg.02:23
m-cDo you know how compatible the NITs' DSP processor is to TI's DaVinci series?02:24
GAN8001m-c, my familiarity with TI's lineup is limited to OMAP stuff. :(02:25
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GAN8001I'm assuming it's pretty close hardware-wise, but I dunno about software-side.02:26
m-cThe OMAP includes the DSP, I think02:26
m-cI guess you mean the ARM side of the OMAP processor02:27
GAN8001Nokia implemented a fairly proprietary setup on OMAP2 (lacking a good open source alternative).02:27
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GAN8001qwerty12_N800_, the next step is to pick up enough Python or C to put together an improved theme switcher. :P02:43
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qwerty12_N800_Timeless & me (well, timeless made the main switching program in perl) did one for mer :p02:45
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GAN8001Actually, I'd really like to see all those basic system amenities fleshed out.02:51
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b-manPalm OS4 running in pose running in ubuntu running on my tablet :D http://www.bman.maemobox.org/Screenshot-7.png - it's pritty responsive :)02:56
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doc|homebut very very wrong :)03:01
b-manhehe :)03:01
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b-manuploaded screenshots to http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/screenshots/gallery.html :)03:15
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GAN8001Hum, why is maemo-launcher doing 1-3% CPU all the time. . . .03:37
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smackpotatowhat should i replace general.useragent.vender with if i dont want to be sent to mobile sites06:49
Macerwelp. time to retire the dual p3/50007:03
smackpotatodid it blow up07:08
smackpotatoor just layed down and died07:09
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* Stskeeps yawnq07:41
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Macersmackpotato: little bit of both07:44
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RST38hAh, the horror! They broke Google Phone to run Gnome!08:21
Stskeepsadp1 polly08:22
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StskeepsRST38h: co-linux on android is even more aca08:24
Stskeepsscary08:24
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RST38hSts: Eeek! Rewritten in Java, no doubt?08:29
RST38h;)08:29
hahlois java slow in mobile devices?08:42
Corsacs/slow.*//08:43
Corsachem08:43
Corsacs/\ in.*//08:44
Corsacbetter :/08:44
hahloheh wonder why they use it so often08:45
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hahloexample this java gmail app, which doesn't run in tablet08:47
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StskeepsRST38h: probably 'telnetd' hack.09:00
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ds3l09:33
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Stskeepsm09:36
pupnik "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. What I mean by that is that it is an oportunity  to do the things that you think that you could not do before." --Rahm Emmanuel, Obama's Chief of Staff09:42
Stskeepsi think there was a west wing quote not entirely unlike this, heh09:44
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sanshi09:44
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Stskeepsmorning09:45
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sansmorning09:45
timelE61iYes09:45
* Stskeeps fails to understand why his fiancee has the magic ability to get him up at 6:30am.09:46
pupnikStskeeps: i just bought a book on the subject ... http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Leviathan-Critical-Government-Institute/dp/019505900X09:46
sans cud anybody tell me how to make my net ip setup for maemo in my emulator09:46
Stskeepspupnik: it's true though. governining is a lot easier in a crisis cos people wake up09:46
Stskeepssans: make sure your /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf matches your /etc/resolv.conf09:47
sansthanks:)09:48
Stskeepssans: it's a binary emulator, not a machine emulator09:48
timelE61isTs: at least you're finding out first09:49
sansyeah resolv.conf files are same09:50
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timelE61iSans: nsswitch.conf09:51
* Dracie wishes he has a n810 instead of an itouch =09:51
sansthe issue with me is i am tryin to access net from my developed application on maemo emulator but it remains in the localloop i.e 127.0.0.1 rather than taking the ip so how cud i correct the issue09:52
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sansStskeeps:any way to resolve this problem09:55
Stskeepssans: mm, good question - i always had problems too but i attributed it to resolv.conf09:57
Draciesans, memorize 208.67.222.222 n 208.67.220.220, free open dns  servers09:57
Draciealso you can ping them to check to see if you are networked09:57
timelE61isans: doesn't make sense09:58
timelE61iIs your nsswitch.conf reasonable?09:58
StskeepstimelE61i: i have encountered weird issues with not having net accces (even without DNS), in binary emulated apps though09:58
Stskeepsi cannot document it right now as i'm doing something else at work :P09:59
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pupniktime10:27
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sansstskeeps :issue cudn't be resolved10:30
Stskeepssans: yeah, it's odd like that :/ best way to do it is trying it out on the actual device10:31
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sanssts: k but can i connect to net frm my browser in the maemo sdk10:34
Stskeepswhen you say maemo emulator what do you mean exactly? af-sb-init?10:34
sansyeah10:34
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StskeepsDIABLO-I386 or DIABLO-ARMEL?10:36
sans DIABLO-I38610:36
Stskeepshmm10:36
Stskeepsand you checked /etc/resolv.conf inside scratchbox, comparing to the one on the outside?10:36
sanscud i set ip in that10:37
Stskeepswell. first off, you don't have a "real" emulator10:37
Stskeepsit isn't an emulator that emulates the device itself10:37
sansk so what's it10:37
Stskeepsso it isn't running a linux kernel inside an emulator, it just runs the applications in a binary emulator, which attaches to your existing kernel10:37
Stskeeps(when you run the armel target)10:38
sansk10:38
Stskeepsand you checked /etc/resolv.conf inside scratchbox, comparing to the one on the outside? <- check this though10:38
sansk wil check and get back thanks :)10:38
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timelE61ihEy, i just got the update operating system dialog10:42
Stskeepson?10:43
timelE61iAnyone think it should be operating system update instead?10:43
timelE61in80010:43
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StskeepsOperating System Update sounds better, yeah10:43
timelE61iIt's running software so old, skype insults me in English10:43
timelE61iIf i cared enough, i'd file a bug10:44
StskeepsYou Loose?10:44
timelE61iSince i'm fairly certain it'd insult me in English even if my tablet spoke Russian10:44
timelE61iAnyway, it suggests i create a backup10:45
timelE61iDo i need a charged battery before i update?10:45
timelE61i(my battery died overnight)10:45
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Stskeepsyeah, it's a good idea10:45
Stskeepsreboot loops are nasty10:45
Stskeepsi normally don't touch SSU if i don't have bootmenu + USB recovery telnetd installed :P10:45
timelE61ihrm10:46
* timelE61i needs to file a bug10:46
timelE61iBaclup10:46
timelE61iBackup10:46
timelE61iLast backup: Backup01      05/13/200810:46
timelE61iBackups on memory card:10:47
Stskeepsovi should have Backup feature for your cellphone and tablet, heh10:47
Stskeepsthat'd be neat10:47
timelE61iBackup01            02/23/2009    0.6 MB10:47
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pupnikvoice recognition10:47
timelE61iBackup              04/06/2008     16 MB10:47
timelE61i-----10:47
timelE61iCan you spot the bug?10:48
Stskeepsyeah, wrong Last backup10:48
pupnikargh10:48
Stskeepshttp://www.oceanlight.com/lr/tran/10119.jpg <- I think we have the Mer mascot..10:48
timelE61iever seen this bug before?10:48
pupnikhappy shark :)10:49
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timelE61igot picture, yay!10:50
pupnikthat is a funny pic10:50
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timelE61iOh, i mean of backup10:51
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timelE61iSts: can you try making a backup?10:51
timelE61iDon't dismiss the Backup complete diailog10:52
Stskeepsyeah, in 15 mins, working on a package for work10:55
timelE61isure10:55
timelE61iOne possibility is that the top line is from the previous backup i made to another memory card10:55
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timelE61iI'm tempted to change "Last" to "Previous" as i think it'd solve this 'feature'10:57
aquatixlol @ happy shark10:58
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floriangood morning11:14
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JaffaMorning, all11:16
Stskeepsmorning Jaffa11:16
timelE61iooh11:17
* timelE61i has left handed scrollbars again11:17
Stskeepsthere really ought to be a CP setting for that11:18
timelE61iyeah yeah11:18
Stskeeps(not that i am left-handed, but when a users immediate experience is that tablets is horrid to use, cos he is left-handed)..)11:18
timelE61iDon't worry, scrollbars have no future11:18
timelE61iHey, i'm a lefty11:18
timelE61iI think it's silly11:19
timelE61iWhat amuses me is that i know it's possible11:19
timelE61iAs i've had my tablets do it twice11:19
pupnikhow about a touch bar sensor on side of case11:19
pupnikfor scrolling11:19
timelE61i(gecko native can also do it)11:19
pupnikthat way, finger doesnt smudge up screen11:19
* ShadowJK is right handed but very often uses it with just left hand nayway11:19
ShadowJKmaybe because the home button is on the left11:20
timelE61iPupnik: how about no hardware requests in a software channel11:20
timelE61iShadow: yep, this device is for lefties11:20
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RST38hpupnik: touch sensors on the side are an absolute NO11:22
pupnik(ironic comment up there=11:23
pupnikoh ok11:23
RST38hpupnik: Good examples are BBK (Oppo) V7/V911:23
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RST38hpupnik: pretty much uncontrollable11:23
pupniklike a touchpad11:24
RST38hnaah, touchpad is a bit better11:24
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RST38hit is located on the top and has bigger area11:24
pupnikhow do you feel about scroll wheels_11:24
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RST38hBBK has got a bunch of playback control sensors at the edge of a <1cm thick metal case11:25
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RST38hyou pick up the player - and *something* clicks =)11:25
pupniki could see a good 'case' to be made for having no sensors or buttons... durability... simplicity11:26
pupnikyes.  thats the reason11:26
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pupniks/the/one11:27
RST38hhaving a few decent real buttons at the edge is ok11:27
sanssts: :( no probs they r same any other way11:27
Stskeepssans: sucks, not sure what causes it then11:27
* Stskeeps doesn't advocate scratchbox as a devel platform anyway, but that's his own personal view11:28
Stskeepsi almost went into a raging fit when trying maemo sdk first time, heh11:28
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sansyeah same with me it really sucks11:29
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* RST38h now moved on to sb211:29
pupniksucks compared to what11:29
RST38hsb1 is just plain inhumane11:30
Stskeepspupnik: compared to be able to build and work with it in a vmware instance really11:30
Stskeepsmer devel is so much easier in a chroot.11:30
Stskeepsor in a vmware11:30
pupniksounds actually good11:30
pupnikcan PCassist compilation11:30
sansits really painful like am tryin to connect to net frm emulator in pc and havent been able to connect11:31
Stskeepssans: what are you developing anyway?11:32
pupniki has to switch to mer soon11:32
Stskeepspupnik: still a long way to go to make it day-to-day usable, but yeah11:32
pupnikone OS to rule them all11:32
sansSts:i have made a browser and tryin to run on it11:33
Stskeepsnah. OS' serve different purposes11:33
pupnikhehe just a joke m811:33
X-FadeQuestion: I did some tweaking to maemo.org's servers. Does maemo.org feel faster, or is it just me? :)11:34
pupnikbut i personally want to run the same SW on my tablets and pand11:34
sansStskeeps:i have made a browser and tryin to run on it11:34
RST38hX-Fade: feels as sluggish as always11:34
pupnikfeels fast here11:35
StskeepsX-Fade: seems to work11:35
RST38hpupnik: that will be MacOSX =)11:35
* RST38h hides11:35
JaffaX-Fade: maybe a /little/ faster11:35
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X-FadeJaffa: At least it isn't slower ;)11:36
Stskeepsjeremiah_: question: does Depends: support multiple lines? like Depends: a, b, \n c, d11:36
pupnikto those who think it feels slow... how much coffee have you had today?11:37
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X-Fadepupnik: Mondays are always slow ;)11:37
Stskeepspupnik: two big cups so far11:37
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timelE61isTs:sure11:41
timelE61iJust make sure there's something on the first line11:41
timelE61iAutobuilder is stupid11:41
timelE61iAnd don't forget the leading space for other lines11:42
timelE61iSts: my deb's depend on lines :)11:42
timelE61i60+ :)11:42
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StskeepstimelE61i: ah, this is not autobuilder in this case, i (scaringily) write debian packages as part of my work too11:44
timelE61iI'm sorry :)11:44
timelE61iAnyway, you can see my deb's somewhere11:45
Stskeepsyeah, well, on the other hand it allows me to get some degree of monetary support for some of my Mer work, so11:45
Stskeeps(we use some parts of Mer as part of our prototypes so)11:45
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sansStskeeps:no way out11:49
timelE61isAns: does nslookup work?11:50
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sanstimelE61:where?11:52
Stskeepswithin scratchbox i presume11:53
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timelE61ipReferably real nslookup and not some evil host tool11:55
* timelE61i curses sbox11:55
timelE61iuse sb2 or mer-vmdk11:55
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sansnslookup doesn't works11:57
sans:(11:57
sansso what cud be done11:57
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Stskeepstry out Maemo SDK+11:58
Stskeepsand see if it helps11:58
timelE61iThat's a good thing11:59
timelE61iDid you actually look at nsswitch.conf?11:59
sansyes i checked12:00
timelE61iand?12:00
sansresolv.conf12:01
timelE61ierr12:01
timelE61iAnd nsswitch looked how?12:01
sanserr?12:01
timelE61iNote that sbox is fun so you might be better served using strace to find the *right* nsswitch.conf12:02
inzBetter fix both12:02
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timelE61ior that12:03
timelE61iAnyway, the line that matters is hosts:12:03
timelE61iWhat did it say?12:03
sansfiles dns12:04
timelE61i:( now find the other nsswitch.conf :)12:04
timelE61iStrace is your friend12:04
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timelE61ihi inz12:05
timelE61iWhere are you now?12:05
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sanstimelE61i:thanks :) its up12:21
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* Stskeeps ponders osso-gnome-vfs2 and why it is at all needed.12:25
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timelE61ibookmarks/filemanager historically use gnome vfs12:27
timelE61iSo does the filepicker12:28
Stskeepsyeah, i know, but why their own custom gnomevfs? i mean, sure, it may be stripped down12:28
Stskeepsbut why custom? :P12:28
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timelE61iAnd our support for bluetooth and media12:28
Stskeepsah.12:28
timelE61iBut beyond those feature details, i dunno the technical whys for forking12:28
timelE61iAnd the fact that gnome vfs is dead outside maemo :)12:29
Stskeepsmany people say that GTK is the huge problem regarding portability and such.. it actually isn't, it's osso-gnome-vfs2 causing most of the problems12:29
Stskeepsmaemo GTK works just fine with normal apps12:29
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timelE61iWhat problem? :)12:30
Stskeepswell it is mostly package wise stuff.. the whole rename of the package throws a serious wrench in many things12:31
Stskeepsanyhow, lunch12:31
timelE61ilunch sounds good12:32
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timelE61ihEh, my task switching menu is anchored to top left instead of bottom left12:48
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Stskeepsoh come on ubuntu.. why does compiling network-manager-gnome require console-setup13:12
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tank-manslackware rules, ubuntu drools13:18
Maceryawn13:19
Macergood morning13:19
pupnik"The primary fallacy of the tooth-fairy economics at the heart of the stimulus is the very idea that economic health is the product of government spending, which is financed either by borrowing (which leaves private businesses with a smaller share of the pool of savings for them to borrow from), printing money out of thin air, or direct seizure from the population."13:20
pupnikThomas Woods - "Meltdown" - http://www.mises.org/store/Meltdown-P557.aspx?AFID=1413:20
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woglindehi13:21
florianhi woglinde13:21
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RST38hpupnik: well, THAT everybody will find out about 6-12 months from now13:39
pupnikhi RST38h13:40
* pupnik eating oatmeal with local yoghurt, honey and canned fruit and reading the book :D13:40
RST38h"Political cartoonists struggle to draw Obama without big lips"13:40
RST38hpupnik: here, to get you deeper into morose mood: http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=2048413:43
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pupnikAWESOME sinfest link!  whoever posted that...13:55
pupnikoh rong chan. nm13:55
pupnikty RST38h13:55
pupnikhttp://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2959  (comic book / jpg / sfw)13:58
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aquatixsinfest rocks13:58
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aquatixpupnik: ah yes :)13:59
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Stskeeps~seen johnx14:19
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infobotjohnx <n=john@p2172-ipbf2302hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 17h 44m 14s ago, saying: 'wazd, nice find :)'.14:19
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Stskeepsjeremiah_: OSBS does support maemo, actually14:31
Stskeepsat least the people coming in here and talking about have claimed so :)14:31
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jeremiah_Stskeeps: Oh, does it?14:32
jeremiah_cool14:32
Stskeepsbut then again it is how you define what maemo is.. ;)14:32
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jeremiah_But it looks like it just builds debs fro the armel platform.14:32
jeremiah_Which I suppose is fine14:32
Stskeepsyeah, but so does scratchbox, it's the libraries and rootstrap that matters14:33
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jeremiah_Stskeeps: Right, it would be cool if we had versions of the libraries and rootstraps on SuSE's servers so we could emulate the maemo better.14:33
Stskeepsyeah14:34
jeremiah_That is kind of what I was thinking.14:34
jeremiah_Maybe a Summer of Code project?14:34
Stskeepsi could really beat those people who have packages which end up trying to install stuff like console-setup (in ubuntu) when getting build-dep14:34
Stskeepsmaybe14:34
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thopiekarhi14:35
thopiekarwhere are the kernel-sources usually stored?14:35
thopiekaron the sb1?14:35
Stskeeps /usr/src14:35
Stskeepswhen grabbing kernel-source-diablo14:35
thopiekarhmm I need the sources for a build.. there is a file called kernel-source-diablo.tar.bz2.. just untar it?14:36
Stskeepsyeah, but there's also a kernel-diablo package or something14:36
Stskeepsthat sets everything up and builds14:36
andrewfblackI finally got my wife to say she liked linux better then windows!14:37
Stskeepsi am slowly trying to get my fiancée to use the 770 :P14:37
Stskeepsso far it works ok as imdb reader and mahjong14:37
Stskeeps:P14:37
thopiekarhmm I've got every package kernel** installed but when I run ./configure it says that it needs the sources..14:38
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andrewfblackwell my wife said it after I installed a custom version of ubuntu to my eee pc that she uses for face book and stuff it uses custom Netbook UI that she likes14:39
Stskeepshehe14:39
GAN800Bleh https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=382214:39
StskeepsFiM?14:40
lardmanStskeeps: be careful of showing her an n8x0, it will be faster and she'll want one; or at least mine did14:40
Stskeepswe really need to rethink that applications menu14:40
Stskeepslardman: she will get my n8x0 when i get a rx-5414:40
Stskeepser14:40
Stskeeps5114:40
lardmanyeah, but then don't let her use the rx-51, or it all starts again :D14:40
thopiekarStskeeps: what about a app-menu in mer like in bora?14:40
aquatixlardman: i wouldn't mind, really14:40
aquatixthen i can finally make our network 802.11g-only14:41
Stskeepsthopiekar: plausible but not finger friendly14:41
andrewfblackwell my wife said it after I installed a custom version of ubuntu to my eee pc that she uses for face book and stuff it uses custom Netbook UI that she likes OS2007 Layout so I can release that doom package I got made admin over in garage14:41
* aquatix 's gf now has a palm that only does 802.11b14:41
thopiekarwhich detects whether you use your fingers or a stilus..14:41
thopiekarStskeeps: ^14:41
lardmanaquatix: ah, well not even Linux, yuck ;)14:41
Stskeepsthopiekar: admittedly i got upset at bora after not being able to find a xterm14:41
Stskeeps:P14:41
thopiekar:)14:41
lcuklardman, you are a bastard.  i was impressed by video calling, now i get a call whenever my bloody tea is ready14:41
aquatixlardman: heh, her laptop runs linux though14:42
aquatixlcuk: ha14:43
andrewfblackWell my wife told me a few months ago when I said I was going to get her a N810 of her own that i just need to wait and get the new device and give her my old n810 how do I argue with that?14:43
aquatixandrewfblack: i think you can't argue with that14:43
* aquatix is planning to do just that btw14:43
aquatixi will get the `n900' and my gf will inherit my n81014:43
lcukandrewfblack, you can't argue, your missus is both prudent and nice to you.  i might ask what the aliens did to your real wife14:44
aquatixghehehe14:44
lcukbbl anyway, dinner time over14:44
andrewfblackMy wife loves to feed my electronic habit if I feed her cloths habit14:46
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lardmanlcuk: lol14:48
lardmanandrewfblack: well that's very reasonable :)14:48
* aquatix makes a habit of wearing clothes too14:48
lardmanandrewfblack: yeah, shoes habit for mine :)14:48
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zshm, on my n810 keys Fn Chr and Ctrl don't work, any ideas?14:55
Stskeepssounds like keymap messing up?14:57
JaffaMrs Jaffa may get an R51 if she's nice. Jarr Jrs can have/share an N810 and the other goes up for sale.14:58
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* andrewfblack needs someone to join Theme hackers project just to move things into Maemo Extras for me15:13
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thopiekarStskeeps: have you some time to help me to build lirc? I need it to build pulseaudio.. http://pastebin.com/d40faa59615:28
Stskeepsi'm willing to bet it doesn't need it as a true dependancy15:28
Stskeepsit's a library for remote controls15:29
Stskeepssometimes it's OK to remove some build dependancies15:29
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thopiekarok but I would have to make changes in rules, too-...15:29
thopiekaror not?15:29
Stskeepsnah, often not15:31
thopiekarok15:31
thopiekarwhat about policykit?15:31
thopiekarwould I need it, too?15:31
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Stskeepsi think you would be better off taking Fremantle's pulseaudio and trying to make it build.15:31
thopiekaraaah nice idea^^15:32
thopiekarthanks!15:32
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inzI know esd sucks, but at least it never broke my (gnome-)terminals... ;)15:46
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thopiekarStskeeps: to build pulseaudio from fremantle I need libspeexdsp-dev, which isn't available on apt-get sources.. and when I download it from ubuntu it needs graphviz, which isn't available on diablo or fremantle..15:51
Stskeepsheh15:51
thopiekarI hate packages like graphviz, debhelper and so on..^^15:52
* Stskeeps would personally use more time on more productive things :P15:52
thopiekarand what are these more productive things?15:53
thopiekar^^15:53
thopiekarStskeeps: ?15:54
Stskeepslike, not beating a dead horse and start trying to grab packages and such from maemo diablo SDK / fremantle SDK and try to get them working under mer15:54
Stskeepsthere's a bunch of packages i haven't touched yet15:54
thopiekarhmm without the vmdk?15:55
* thopiekar hates it.. he needs a real xterm15:55
thopiekar^^15:55
Stskeepsno, in the vmdk, you can use that as a build :P15:55
Stskeepsand you can always use reverse ssh tunnels15:55
thopiekarssh doesn't work for me.. don't know why...15:56
Stskeepsssh from within machine and out15:56
Stskeepsnot reverse15:56
Stskeeps:P15:56
thopiekarfrom the host to the guest os...15:57
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MacerStskeeps: how is mer looking?15:57
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thopiekarStskeeps: which type of network should i use?15:58
thopiekarnat?15:58
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* thopiekar is forcing sb1.diablo to make graphiz...16:00
Stskeepsthopiekar: yeah, NAT16:01
thopiekarhmm have I to start ssh-server on mer manually?16:01
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Stskeepsshouldn't have to, it should be running already16:02
thopiekar:| but I can't connect it..16:02
Stskeepsyou use virtualbox?16:03
thopiekaryes,,16:03
Stskeepsdoes it make an interface in /sbin/ifconfig -a when starting the virtual machine? as in, your host computer16:04
Stskeepshttp://mydebian.blogdns.org/?p=14816:04
thopiekardon't think so..16:04
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Stskeepsdescribes it16:04
* thopiekar tries it with Host Interface before preparing his vm...16:06
* Stskeeps tries to build Xomap16:07
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thopiekarStskeeps: I'm going to leave ... cu l8er.. :)16:10
Stskeepsadios16:10
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t_s_ohmm, have anyone moved the browser tweaks from itt wiki to maemo wiki?16:10
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JaffaInteresting news on the end of the N810: http://www.expansys.com/ft.aspx?k=11841616:19
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Stskeepsindeed16:21
Stskeepsi'm willing to bet they probably did a quick recompile of everything in extras, see if it built for fremantle, and releasing immediately ;)16:22
Stskeeps(planning to)16:22
* Stskeeps ponders the consequences if Xomap actually builds for mer.16:22
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fiferboymikkov_: ping17:15
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RST38hmoo fiferboy17:21
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fiferboymoo?17:21
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qwerty12fiferboy, still happen to have those microb-svn debs (I know they don't work under diablo having built it myself before but I think it's a packaging issue and would like to try and fix them up)?17:37
RST38hqwerty: do you remember if anyone has tried compiling and packaging linuxdc++ yet?17:37
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fiferboyqwerty12: I'll check.  Do you just need the source debs?17:38
qwerty12RST38h, I remember me compiling it and then watching as it segfaulted randomly :)17:38
qwerty12fiferboy, binary debs would be preferred please17:38
qwerty12(I'm not trying to get anything into extras so dpkg-deb will be sufficent for this purpose :))17:39
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fiferboyAs soon as my virtual machine boots up I will let you know.17:39
qwerty12fiferboy, cool, thank you17:39
qwerty12RST38h, if command lines are your thing, there's a command line dc client17:39
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RST38hqwerty: naaah, I hardly believe it is possible to search dc++ shares via command line17:40
qwerty12Agreed :). I'm more tempted by gtk-gnutella personally17:40
RST38hnot much use around here17:41
RST38hcommunity net uses dc++ internally17:41
fiferboyqwerty12: Looks like I blew them away, sorry.17:43
fiferboyDo you need them rebuilt?17:43
qwerty12fiferboy, heh, thanks for checking.17:43
qwerty12No, I'm ok thank you (I remember it taking me ages last time :))17:44
qwerty12I wonder if browserd has to be rebuilt against it though17:45
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* RST38h wonders if he may bug pipeline about porting dc++ thingie...17:46
fiferboyI thought browserd was built as a part of rebuilding the browser.17:47
qwerty12I'm pretty sure that the engine in svn is kept seperate to the tablet-browser-daemon.17:48
qwerty12But its been a long while since I've checked17:49
fiferboyYou may be right, I think the error message looked like it was looking for broswerd in the wrong place17:50
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fiferboyqwerty12: It looks like I still have the packages on my tablet.  I just have to figure out which ones are required for you (there are about 8 if I recall correctly)17:57
qwerty12I wont be needing the -dev & dbg packages at least :). microb-engine-common & microb-engine seem like enough to me17:59
fiferboyCurd, these ones are too old to be mine, they must be that old build from ITt from last May18:02
fiferboy/s/Curd/Crud18:02
qwerty12Heh, no problems, thank you for looking. I guess I'll have to attempt a build on the weekend :)18:03
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fiferboyI'm going to try a build now in my VM, it's not doing anything right now anyway18:04
RST38hfiferboy: linuxdc++, pleeeasee! =)18:04
qwerty12Oh, don't worry about it if you don't need it :)18:04
* qwerty12 remembers the time it took for me last time :)18:05
fiferboyRST38h: People are still using dc?18:08
t_s_ohmm, RMS live from norway...18:10
RST38hfiferboy: all over the place here18:10
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RST38h(not my personal preference though, just means I will be able to search and download movies directly to the tablet)18:11
fiferboyWhat about Transmission?18:13
RST38hCommunity net uses DC++18:13
RST38hTorrents mean going outside which is 1) slower (4Mbd instead of 100Mbd), 2) costs money  and 3) limited by u/d ratio18:14
fiferboyAh, you are using it on an internal network?18:14
RST38hmore or less18:14
StskeepsRST38h: heh, yeah, similar story here sometime18:15
lcuktechnically dc++ hubs have ratios, slots and tb shared18:15
lcukbut i wouldnt know anything about that18:15
* lcuk wonders how he learnt to read swedish18:15
qwerty12When I was trying out DC++, most hubs had a 40GB minimum share limit and I only had a 20GB hard drive :)18:15
RST38hlcuk: they are, but most client in our network have them turned off or relaxed18:16
RST38hlcuk: the traffic is very fast and free18:16
lcukonce you are in the hub you are ok lol18:16
lcukyeah rst, i know :)18:16
lcukqwerty12, ive seen some people desperately trying to up shares, enabling whole c drive and using symlinks and other stuff18:17
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qwerty12Yeah, I was gonna make a *gb file of nothing ness (I had a dummy file maker when I used to rip psp games manually) but it was pointless as my hard drive was 20gb :P18:17
fiferboyI remember a while back symlinking a huge directory a few times used to get you in to most servers18:18
fiferboyI mean, I remember a friend telling me that...18:18
fiferboyqwerty12: SVN build isn't playing nice right now.  There's a directory not found error eight off the bat18:20
lcukqwerty12, you get kicked and banned for tricks like that.  nothing worse than bad content18:21
lcukat least if you share your c:/ drive people might find use in your emails and passwords and stuff18:21
qwerty12Eurgh. Thank you for attempting it again, wonder why that SVN is messed up anyway (looking at the fact that the microb-engine didn't build for me last time without some odd tricks)18:21
qwerty12lcuk, didn't really bother me. My plan was to get on, leech and fuck off18:21
lcuklol18:22
* lcuk is surprised by how many of the original server groups are still recognisable18:22
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qwerty12What I do miss however is the original Razorback on ed2k18:23
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RST38hhehe, "learn asm on arm" itt thread is hilarious18:28
qwerty12Thinking of teaching him? :P18:29
RST38hno way.18:29
qwerty12lol18:29
RST38hif he could be educated, he would already taken one of MANY hints people gave him18:29
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lardmanafternoon all19:05
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lardmanwas there a thread on itt about getting/trying to get headphones with controls working (wired ones that is)?19:06
* RST38h tried compiling linuxdc++. Unfortunately, goddamn thing needs SCons to compile19:07
RST38hAuthors just couldn't use standard make - not eleet enough for them =(19:08
lardmanwhat is it? Their website gives no description of what the code does....19:09
lardmanah, p2p19:09
RST38hlinuxdc++ is a P2P client19:09
RST38hone I need badly enough to try compiling it19:09
RST38hScons is another Make clone written in Python by people who were too stupid to learn Makefiles19:10
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lardmanhmm, what was that funny headset profile in the rx-51 kernel code.....19:13
* lardman trawls itt19:13
RST38hUS Airways Group on Monday said it would stop charging for nonalcoholic drinks in its coach cabin, a practice that drew the ire of customers and put the airline at a competitive disadvantage.  <--- hehehe, bastards =)19:13
lardmanire of customers? why?19:14
lardmanI'd think they'd be pleased19:14
RST38hlardman: 'cause when you fly for 6 hours in fetal position, crammed between seats *and* get charged for a freaking orange juice, you normally get mad.19:14
lardmanyeah, but why are passengers annoyed that they are going to stop charging?19:15
lardmanah, I misread19:15
RST38hlardman: no, you misparsed the sentence =)19:15
lardman"a practise which"19:15
lardmanthat/which/practise/practice, all that stuff :)19:15
RST38hlardman: did rx-51 headset profile suggested a GSM voice capability? l(19:16
RST38h;)19:16
lardmanRST38h: can't remember, but there was some funny code, which I was thinking might be one of these remote control things19:16
lardmancode as in codename19:16
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RST38hAVRC?19:16
lardmanavrcp?19:17
RST38hAVRCP, sorry. That and A2DP together constitute a media playing headset19:17
lardmanno, I'm thinking about wired headphones19:17
RST38hWired headphones normally use resistive ladder, afaik19:18
qwerty12lardman, btw, if I want to attempt building your dsp-sbc, which mk* is the preferred one to build?19:18
lardman.diablo19:19
lardmanbut it only changes the path to the dsp kernel19:19
lardmanso you'll probably need to tweak it anyway if your setup is different19:19
lardmanwhat are you wanting to do anyway?19:20
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qwerty12Hmm? I'm talking about which mk I'd want to export from here: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=dsp-sbc19:20
lardmanIf you're bored, do a back port of ssvb's sbc changes from bluez419:20
lardmanmk as in Makefile?19:20
lardmanah mk19:20
lardmanI see19:20
lardmanmk2 is the basic code19:21
qwerty12Cool, thanks19:21
lardmango for that, but I should backport the ssvb patches to the DSP-side19:21
qwerty12I thought your latest bluez deb consisted of ssvb's changes?19:21
lardmanhmm, actually perhaps the mk2-filter+bitstream-patch19:22
lardmanremoves a memcpy19:22
lardmanqwerty12: yeah, but not completely up to date19:22
qwerty12ah19:22
lardmanand he proivded a patch for the ARM-side in itt the other day19:22
qwerty12I'm enjoying ssvb's kernel patch atm19:22
lardmanwhere is that one from?19:23
qwerty12The one he posted in the a2dp thread, I remember you thanking it :)19:23
lardmanqwerty12: ping me next week and remind me to make a new Bluez-utils19:24
qwerty12what are your plans for dsp-sbc? Do you plan on integrating that into bluez-utils again?19:24
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qwerty12Well, the bluez part anyway (sorry, I'm clueless regarding all this)19:25
mikkov_fiferboy: pong :)19:25
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lardmanqwerty12: yes, I'll release an ARM-only and an ARM+DSP version19:27
lardmanwith ssvb's patches19:27
lardmanhang on, need to pack, bbiab19:27
qwerty12cool, thanks19:29
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lardmanre19:53
lardmanqwerty12: np19:53
lardmanI'd meant to do the patches by now, but have been busy, will do them next week when I get back19:53
qwerty12Oh, lol, no rush. Have a good time!19:54
lardmanhmm, it's work, so probably lots of sitting presenting/watching presentations; we'll see19:54
lardman~n90019:55
infobotn900 is probably OMAP3430, HD camera, HSPA, Maemo 5 (Fremantle), probably Summer 2009 (or later)19:55
lardman~rx-5119:55
infobotrumour has it, rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html19:55
lardmanhmm, come on infobot, where's the link to the kernel patch dissection?19:55
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Jaffalardman: Isn't that in Ryan's blog post?19:56
qwerty12lardman, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25478 maybe19:56
lardmanI was after the itt thread really, there was something in there19:56
lardmanthanks qwerty1219:56
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lardmanhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25478&page=2020:05
lardmanthat's the page I was after20:05
lardmanI knew I wasn't going mad :)20:05
qwerty12I'm only seeing 7 pages, I wouldn't be so sure of that :20:06
qwerty12P20:06
lardman:)20:07
lardmananyway, I've seen what I remembered, but no closer to working out if a headset remote will work on the n810 :D20:08
RST38hlardman: ECI is a resistive ladder afaik20:09
RST38hlardman: In other words, they have got an ADC somewhere connected to one of the wires20:09
lardmanyeah20:10
RST38hlardman: as you press buttons, you ground adc input through different resistors and the firmware measures voltage and converts it to button id20:10
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lardmanI wonder if the current devices can do something like that, I'll have to look at the diagrams eventually20:11
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wazd_n800hola world)20:13
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pupnik_hola20:16
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fiferboymikkov_: Do you know whether libboost-regex builds in your boost libraries?20:19
wazd_n800fiferboy, wow!!20:20
wazd_n800fiferboy, hey Andrew!)20:21
wazd_n800fiferboy, long time no see)20:21
* GeneralAntilles stretches and yawns.20:21
RST38hlardman: acronym you are looking for is LRAD or LRADC20:21
fiferboywazd_n800: It has been a while20:22
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RST38hmoo wazd20:23
lardmanRST38h: thanks, but I don't get much of any use from Google for that term20:24
wazd_n800fiferboy, I dont see you in Jabber(20:24
wazd_n800RST38h, hola)20:24
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, ping?20:26
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, pong but I've gtg in 5 mins20:27
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, Ian recommended adding qurgh-complete and lcars-extras to conflicts, too.20:27
qwerty12Noted. I can't do anything right now (in windows currently) but it shouldn't take me long to change and regenerate new source packages to give you tomorrow20:28
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mikkov_fiferboy: I have to check, probably there is some reason why it isn't built now20:35
fiferboymikkov_: Is it just a matter of removing the "--without-regex" line in the rules file?20:36
mikkov_according to my changelog regex doesn't build for i38620:37
mikkov_but it should work for armel20:37
RST38hStolen Windows Mobile 6.5 Prototype Phone Wiped Remotely20:37
RST38hNice feature =)20:38
woglinderst hehe20:38
mikkov_fiferboy: you need to add regex to some other places too20:39
* RST38h wonders if the final version will have it20:39
fiferboyAh, I was wondering if that were the case20:39
mikkov_at least boost_libs:20:39
mikkov_boost_libs :=20:39
mikkov_do you need it for some to be extras app?20:40
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RST38heeek...boost libs20:44
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fiferboymikkov_: I want to see if the devel version of Wesnoth builds and runs (since it will be the new stable soon), but it need regex20:48
mikkov_should I update the boost in extras-devel?20:51
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fiferboyIf it builds with regex, that would be great21:02
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* Stskeeps yawns21:35
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lardmananyone got a pointer to using GStructure?21:36
lardmanGstStructure that should be, sorry21:36
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lardmanah, not to worry, found something21:38
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GeneralAntillesI just can't fathom some people.21:41
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lardmanlike whom?21:44
GeneralAntilleslardman, for the moment the "Nokia should kill Maemo and switch to Symbian" crowd.21:44
lardman:)21:45
lardmanah well21:45
lardmanthey've obviously never tried to write any Symbian apps ;)21:45
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GeneralAntillesI'm also confused as to why types like that insist on hanging around to troll rather than just buying want they want and moving on.21:46
GeneralAntillesThat's an awful lot of energy to waste sowing negativity.21:46
Stskeepshard to break the habit?21:46
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, so, you're coping to being a recovered troll, then? :P21:47
Stskeepshehe. nah, just fighting the fight by actually doing something21:48
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lfelipename21:48
lfelipeops21:48
lfelipesorry21:48
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: we should just make a rule on iTT "Each time you complain about something you have to either 1) bring it to attention to Maemo SW (bugs.maemo.org), 2) fix and provide a solution yourself or 3) support someone who can fix or provide a solution21:49
Stskeeps:P21:49
qwerty12_N8004) Don't bother and STFU.21:50
Stskeepsor 4) propose a solution for others to look into21:50
Stskeepshehe21:50
Stskeeps:P21:50
lfelipehehe21:50
lfelipehey, is pycage around here ?21:51
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i managed to get Xomap building btw21:51
Stskeepswas fairly simple.21:51
lfelipewe should establish a rule where people have to use the same nick on irc and itt21:51
Stskeepslfelipe: sadly those namespaces are differently occupied21:51
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: nice. Manual refreshes all the way? :)21:51
lfelipeStskeeps: if your itt nick has been taken on irc, then you prepend [ITT] to it21:52
lfelipelike, [ITT]lfelipe21:52
lfelipeyeah, ok, it's dreadful, forget I suggested it21:52
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: yeah, possibly. it seemed a bit faster.21:52
lfelipeat least a new field on the itt profile to specify which irc nick is used21:53
lfelipehehe21:53
lfelipebut I digress21:53
lfelipeanyone knows which nick pycage uses ?21:53
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i don't like that solution though.. i would much rather see -omapfb mature21:53
qwerty12_N800lfelipe: Is pycage even on irc?21:53
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lfelipeqwerty12_N800: good question, is he ?21:54
Stskeepsdon't think so21:54
lfelipewhy do ppl hang on forums and not on irc is unfathomable21:54
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: but Xomap has patchable rotation & manual refreshes. I don't know much about omapfb, nor Xomap but I can't see the advantage of -omapfb over Xomap ATM.21:55
Stskeeps*nod*21:55
Stskeepswell. it's xorg.21:55
Stskeepsand you can throw a lot of devices at it :)21:55
qwerty12_N800s/ATM/ATM on the N800 :)/21:56
infobotqwerty12_N800 meant: Stskeeps: but Xomap has patchable rotation & manual refreshes. I don't know much about omapfb, nor Xomap but I can't see the advantage of -omapfb over Xomap ATM on the N800 :).21:56
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Stskeepsyeah, that's true21:57
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lcuklardman,21:57
lardmanhey lcuk21:57
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* Stskeeps wonders if hwcap supports binaries.21:58
lcukhiya, ive been thinking about what you said and i might be able to give a solution21:58
lardmanI can't remember what I said now....21:58
lcukheh :D21:58
lardmangetting old :p21:58
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lcukyeah, it was about the multibinary thing and how to do it21:58
lardmanhmm...?21:59
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lcuki was talking to kot as well and some things might work.  at the moment, ill stick with how i am (basically 1 app + multiple .so's) and try to get it so that starting a new app will integrate into the screen22:00
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: downside though, it requires vfp and armv6 to be sane22:00
lardmanlcuk: ah yes, I remember now22:00
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: tbh, from a selfish view, that doesn't bother me.22:00
lcukwhat i dont think will be practical however is letting abc application open its own little viewport within a mainly (lets say) gtk window22:01
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: true22:01
lcukit falls down when you run multiple apps using the same principle22:01
lcukor want to have multiple widgets onscreen at same time each with their own viewport22:01
lcukill ponder it some more anyway22:02
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smackpotatoanyone know any grease monkey script that speed up browsing. Ive already stoped onscroll and onexit22:27
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Stskeepseevë22:48
Stskeeps...22:48
* Stskeeps notes to himself he doesn't like his laptop keyboard.22:48
qwerty12_N800ываио22:48
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woglindeqwerty12_N800 nice22:56
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qwerty12_N800woglinde: lemme know if it means something :P (was typing random letters from the Russian keyboard - a friend needed it...)22:57
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ssvbqwerty12_N800: what you typed sounds like a mumbling noise of a really drunk guy :)23:06
qwerty12_N800lol :p23:08
luke-jrare there any open hardware specs for the N810?23:09
lardmannight chaps23:09
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luke-jrin particular, how the sliding keyboard thing keeps a mechanical connection23:10
inzssvb, it looks a lot like "vaio" to me ;)23:11
qwerty12_N800luke-jr: not what I'd call authorized by Nokia but... http://www.nmacleod.com/nokia/schematics/23:11
luke-jrqwerty12_N800: that's ok, I just want to design my own hardware for a new handheld23:12
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luke-jrqwerty12_N800: wait, before I open these-- they're not leaked/copyrighted docs, right?23:13
qwerty12_N800leaked23:13
qwerty12_N800and copyrighted.23:13
AStormluke-jr, really, it's a standard connector23:14
AStormwith a band23:14
luke-jrqwerty12_N800: so I'd better not look at it if I want to compete..23:14
luke-jrAStorm: but how does it stay connected while sliding?23:14
luke-jror is that part of why the top half the device can't be used for more kb space?23:14
AStormbecause the connector is longer23:15
AStormmaybe an even longer wouldn't fit23:15
AStormor the "carriage" wouldn't23:15
luke-jroh, I think I see. :/23:15
* luke-jr wants one that slides all the way, and can then fold up like a laptop :D23:16
AStormah, a clamshell23:16
AStormnokia did some back then too23:16
AStormthinkpad tablet has such a design too23:17
AStormthe problem is that hinge is fat and heavy23:17
luke-jrwell23:18
AStormand obviously, when closed, screen is unavailable :P23:18
luke-jrI mean the current design, plus clamshell23:18
luke-jrso you can close it by sliding or folding23:18
luke-jrI haven't figured out how I'd do the connector yet tho ☺23:18
AStormsliding to fold that is23:18
AStormstill normal tape23:18
luke-jreh?23:18
AStormbut even longer23:19
luke-jrsomeone has made this before?23:19
AStormsee, it works the same as now23:19
AStormbecause when folding, the tape is outstretched - the only problem is with sliding23:19
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AStormbtw, it's not the keyboard that's connected with a tape23:20
AStormscreen is23:20
AStormbut you can do it either way23:20
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wazd_n800luke-jr: you want to design your own hardware and you don't know how the sliider mechanism works?)23:24
wazd_n800luke-jr, good luck :)23:24
AStormyeah, weird23:24
AStormmaybe he should hire someone23:24
luke-jr<.<23:25
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wazd_n800luke-jr, most of the stuff is patented23:25
wazd_n800luke-jr, you should buy it or use your own tech23:26
luke-jrwazd_n800: what I want doesn't exist23:26
AStorm(which is similar but not enough)23:26
AStormoh, it does23:26
luke-jrI've never seen it23:26
AStormsliding hinges do exist23:26
AStormrare though23:26
wazd_n800luke-jr, slider does exist)23:26
luke-jrwazd_n800: slider + clamshell?23:27
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wazd_n800luke-jr, well, it doesnt matter how many separate techs you'll combine23:27
luke-jrand what did you mean my "own tech"? I thought this up on my own, and an independent implementation of it would certainly be my own tech23:27
wazd_n800luke-jr, if parts of it will void the patent - you'll be sued)23:28
AStormzep23:28
AStormthus, you'll have to licence it... but it might be free now23:29
luke-jrwazd_n800: unless I patent the whole, and trade that patent for the sub-patents23:29
AStormno23:29
AStormthey'll just sue you23:29
AStormand take your patent as a settlement23:30
AStormyou lose23:30
luke-jrnot sure they can sue me if I don't build it23:30
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AStormthey can if you get a patent23:30
luke-jrgah23:30
luke-jrpatents are so screwed up23:30
AStormor they can void your patent on unoriginal work basis23:30
luke-jrno, it's original work23:30
luke-jrI haven't read a single patent of theirs.23:31
AStormit's not if it combines other patents23:31
AStormthat doesn't matter23:31
AStormif it's similar enough, it's unoriginal23:31
wazd_n800luke-jr, if you  havent read - thats your problem)23:31
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luke-jrif it's similar enough, then both patents are void due to the concept being trivial ;)23:31
wazd_n800luke-jr, you can't prove it23:31
AStormluke-jr, no, the oldest one wins23:32
AStormit wasn't trivial back then23:32
luke-jrAStorm: patents need to be non-trivial23:32
AStormor someone else would've patented it23:32
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luke-jrsigh23:32
wazd_n800luke-jr, anyway, prototyping is very expensive and hard work)23:32
AStormand, there's that "design" protection23:33
luke-jrwazd_n800: perhaps23:33
AStormwhich is unrelated to patents23:33
wazd_n800luke-jr, Be sure)23:33
luke-jrAStorm: and non-existent?23:33
AStormbut works similarly23:33
AStormexistent in most countries23:33
luke-jrlast I checked, designs/interfaces can't be copyrighted23:33
AStormthey can.23:34
AStormat least in EU23:34
luke-jrthen why did Microsoft lose that lawsuit?23:34
wazd_n800luke-jr, say hello to Apple))23:34
AStormthat's *algorithm*23:34
AStormnot design23:34
AStormdesign is a real form, a piece of metal/plastic23:34
AStormAero is protected that way23:35
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AStorm(as a graphic design)23:36
luke-jrwtf is Aero?23:36
wazd_n800luke-jr, does that shell-slider idea worth all that work?)23:36
AStormthe UI of Vista23:36
luke-jrIIRC, M$ was suing over WIMP23:36
AStormWIMP is not a design23:36
luke-jrwazd_n800: maybe not, I'm just annoyed with the poor keyboard23:36
AStormand it's not a *new* one23:36
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AStormit could use more work, but find one as thin23:37
AStormthe dpad a'la gameboy could be used I guess23:37
AStorm(not exactly the same ofc)23:37
luke-jrI was quite happy with the Zaurus SL-Cx60 keyboard23:37
AStormalso, Nokia just had them from e-series23:37
AStormZaurus is larger23:38
luke-jronly because of the battery23:38
AStormno, it's thicker23:38
AStormeven w/o battery23:38
wazd_n800I'm happy with Mitsumi original xD23:38
luke-jrok, slightly23:38
luke-jrnot where it matters23:38
AStormthis n810 keyboard is chiclet23:38
AStormcheap23:38
luke-jrit still fits in my pocket23:39
AStormand also used for e-series I think23:39
wazd_n800AStorm, nope23:39
luke-jrusability is far more important than a tiny bit of depth23:39
AStormwazd_n800, no? similar enough23:39
wazd_n800AStorm, as I feel it - E90 kb is better23:40
AStormhmmh23:40
AStorme90 is newer23:40
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