IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-02-17

Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: Pocket Loox instructions up btw00:06
qwerty12_N800woot!00:06
b-manpeople asking me lots of questions; http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975&page=6     - i'm going crazy - too many things happening today - way too busy! 0_000:06
Stskeepsb-man: distro work isn't easy :P00:07
* b-man gets a mental overload00:07
b-manStskeeps: verry true :)00:08
Stskeepsb-man: people who trip the incompatible bootmenu warning and then tries to disable it.. that is really bad00:08
Stskeepsif it trips, there's a bloody good reason00:08
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* lcuk passes b-man AND Stskeeps a bacon butty. i do not envy the task either of you has undertaken00:09
b-manhehe00:09
b-manStskeeps: it's triping even with deblet bootmenu - but i have it installed and i'm having no problems with it00:10
* lcuk does some code00:10
fireunuse data protection00:11
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Stskeepsb-man: it is probably people who forgot to add ITEM_LINUXRC00:11
Stskeepsb-man: if they have tripped it once, the install is ruined :P00:11
b-manhmm :(((00:12
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* b-man screams00:14
* Proteous covers his ears00:15
Stskeepsand we witness b-man losing his sanity00:15
lcukin irc, noone can hear you scream00:15
* lcuk heard wilhelm tho00:15
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b-manhohoho hehehe hahaha :o ;p 0.o 0_o O-000:15
lcuknope, false alarm, hes back to normal00:16
timelE61iwitch dr?00:16
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Proteouslol00:17
Proteoussomeone needs to run s/witch/which/ on b-mans post00:17
StskeepsProteous: i've added an automatic sed script to my irc client and i've never been happier :)00:18
Proteouslol00:18
* b-man douces himself with a glass of water00:18
Stskeepsb-man: we can only hope we can develop mer in a direction where it is trivial to convert it into a ubuntu if one such wanted >P00:19
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Stskeepsb-man: but anyway, there was a reason why i didn't start a ublet back then - it wasn't sustainable in the long run in terms of power usage and maintainability.. same lesson learnt with deblet00:21
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Stskeeps(we had ubuntu running already back in summer)00:22
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lardmanevening all00:24
lardmanany other councilors about?00:24
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b-manStskeeps: true :p00:24
* b-man eats some mack'n cheez to calm his nervs00:24
lardmanGeneralAntilles: ping00:25
lardmanJaffa: ping00:25
* timelE61i misses kraft00:25
Stskeepsb-man: figure out a way to make a /etc/apt/preferences that drags in the packages you want from mer and downprioritize the mer ones otherwise00:25
fireunubuntu only on the n8xx?00:25
lardmanbbiab00:25
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Stskeepsfireun: it is fairly simple to get it going on 770 too, mer is on 770 as well00:25
* fireun hates being stuck at one final release on the 77000:25
Stskeepsfireun: and i'll be getting a 770 donated so we can (finally) add proper support to the 770s00:26
fireunStskeeps: ok, good to know, I'll give it a try one of these weekends00:26
fireuneggscellent00:26
Stskeepsb-man: and then we can build the ubuntu images along with mer images i guess00:26
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tonyyarussoeh?  You can run Ubuntu on an n8xx?  How?00:28
b-manhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2597500:29
GeneralAntilleslardman|away?00:29
Stskeepstonyyarusso: Mer is based on ubuntu (taken from a minbase though), too00:30
Stskeepsbut b-man's ubuntu is indirectly based on mer work :)00:30
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b-manand a little bit of deblet too ;)00:31
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Jaffalardman|afk: ping00:33
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lardman|awayGeneralAntilles: the wiki pages about the referenda make no sense to me00:37
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lardmanwhat's all the "item #3" stuff mean?00:37
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lardmanand why the change in numbering scheme on this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_voting_rights00:37
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lardmanI've not been involved as I don't have any strong views, but this is confusing00:38
Jaffalardman: Can you change them so they *do* make sense?00:38
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Jaffalardman: Item #3 is referrring to the document linked above00:38
lardmanno, I have no idea what it's supposed to mean!00:38
Jaffahttp://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Election_process00:38
Jaffalardman: once I explain it ;-)00:38
wazdok, self-demotivation didn't worked, current Mer UI mockup is nice :)00:38
Jaffalardman: and the change in numbering scheme is cos dneary was copying & pasting and fubared?00:39
Stskeepswazd: as in the one you published?00:39
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wazdStskeeps: yep. It just needs a few tweaks for supernarrow screens00:40
Stskeepsalright00:40
wazdStskeeps: I really tried to come up with something better but I can't for now)00:40
GeneralAntillesWhen do we get to vote?00:41
JaffaGeneralAntilles: AIUI, the vote links are sent separately; so I assumed they'd come at some point after the emails... but dneary's blog post says "open now"00:42
JaffaSomething to poke him about tomorrow.00:42
JaffaAh no.00:42
JaffaBollocks.00:42
JaffaThere's a link in his post to http://maemo.org/vote/ which contains them00:42
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Stskeepswazd: maybe the challenge is then to see what would make sense on a phone device00:42
JaffaBut that wasn't in the emails. Oh well, one follow up email tomorrow should do it.00:43
* Jaffa beds00:43
GeneralAntillesWe're bouncing between numeric and alpha lists. . . .00:44
* b-man leaves - see ya later00:45
GeneralAntillesThe wiki pages doesn't correspond to the referenda titles.00:45
GeneralAntilles<_<00:45
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tonyyarussoIs it possible to make apps install to the removable memory?  I'm running into space constraints with the system memory.00:46
rm_youtonyyarusso: look into Boot From SD00:46
rm_youyou'll need to actually run the OS from a partition on an SD card00:46
tonyyarussorm_you: So I have to make the whole thing on it eh? Okay.00:46
rm_youYep. better idea anyway00:47
tonyyarussorm_you: Am I going to have to totally re-install everything to do that?00:47
rm_youno00:47
tonyyarussoBetter idea why?00:47
rm_youClone From SD00:47
rm_yousearch on the forums00:47
rm_youit takes your current image00:47
rm_youerr, because if you break something (like your kernel, lol) you can boot into the flash install, chroot in, and fix it00:47
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GeneralAntilles~bootsd00:48
rm_youall on the device00:48
GeneralAntilles~boot-sd00:48
tonyyarussoThat's an excellent point.00:48
infobotrumour has it, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card00:48
rm_youhas happened to me several times00:48
tonyyarussoIs there any performance difference between the external SD and internal memory?00:48
rm_younot really IMO00:48
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lardmanre00:51
lardmansorry had to pop out00:51
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lardmanJaffa: Ok, I now see the link to the number in the countil page00:51
lardmanJaffa: and yes, I know the numbering thing was a fubar, I was just surprised the email went out with it like that00:52
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guysoft42is there a way to get gpe on the maemo to sync to a syncML server?00:56
wazdStskeeps: btw, how apps behave with such narrow screen?00:56
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Stskeepswazd: mm, depends00:57
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Stskeepsmy focus isnt always the apps but libhildon apps00:57
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* lardman got out of the wrong side of bed this morning, and apologises to everyone for his tone01:00
lcukdont apologise lardman, i was *just* writing a what the fucking hell is this referendum about message here..01:00
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lardmanyeah, well I do feel bad as I've not done anything council related for this - I have an opinion, but am not too bothered to argue it so have stayed out of the emails and organisation01:02
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lardmanhow are you anyway lcuk?01:02
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lcukim feeling a bit better now, had flu all last week, snuffled way through a romantic meal on saturday night01:02
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lardmanoh, we had hangovers from the night before - too many caperinhas (spelling?)01:03
* GeneralAntilles facepalms at "Maemo Council"01:03
lcuklol it was nice though, good to have time to ourselves :)01:03
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lardmankids away?01:04
lardmanGeneralAntilles: who's the miscreant?01:04
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lcukmy mum had em for a few hours :)01:04
lardmancool :)01:04
lcuknow lukes gone to scotland skiing01:04
GeneralAntilleslardman, we can lay the blame squarely on dneary's shoulders for all of this. :P01:04
lardman:D01:04
lardmanI'm sure he'll be pleased....01:04
lardmanwell I do partly blame myself for not being involved enough and not checking things out01:05
lardmanbut that's life01:05
lcukand caperinhas01:05
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lardman:)01:06
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lcuklardman, you saw the video, this puts it in a bit more perspective: http://liqbase.net/liq.20090214_130409.lib.scr.png01:06
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Stskeepslo ian01:07
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lcukthis voting thing, since ive used my mail address as a key, can't i have the token mailed back to me (with applicable 1/3 subject ;))01:08
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lardmanlcuk: your liqbase stuff is in this ui design, looks good if it could be integrated: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2687701:10
GeneralAntillesStskeeps/lcuk/anybody who doesn't know, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Counting_methods what do the items #'s refer to?01:11
lcukyeah lardman I saw that, but thats just icons01:11
lardmanlcuk: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=264867&postcount=1301:11
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i looked at it and decided the alcohol level in my system did not permit me to focus on that :P01:11
lardmanlcuk: first link in there01:11
lcuki just saw that and stepped back01:12
lcukjust a mo, lemme finish voting01:12
lcukive got something to show you01:12
GeneralAntillesIs: "The changes mentioned below will be made to the items in the Council election process." better?01:13
lcukreading these voting options feels like reading stuart code01:13
lcukthe last vote, the one where i choose about which voting method01:13
lcukit just says "changes to #4 and #5 or whatever"01:13
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lcukwithout ever listing the other options :'( whats the options for gcc to compile this up into a completed form01:14
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lcukdifference between "one vote" and "a single ballot"01:15
lardmanhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Voting_rights_Q1_2009#Proposed_options #2 should be explained better01:15
Macersigh.. i love my g1.. tmob's 3G network works great01:16
lardmanit means that a change will be added for the first 2 elections, or at least that's my read of it01:16
Maceratt with my 95 doesn't have shit on it01:16
lcukim ok with that, it was an easy choice01:16
lcukthe selection clearly stated my intention01:16
lcukright01:18
lcuklardman, http://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_004545.lib.scr.png01:18
lcukthis blew my mind last night01:18
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lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_004336.lib.scr.png01:20
lardmanlcuk: cool :)01:20
StsN800liqporn?01:20
b0unc3_lcuk: looks nice...01:20
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lcukthis pic http://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_004336.lib.scr.png has a liqtop widget.  it views the current mirror universe and is zoomable01:20
lcuk(same as i just posted)01:20
lcuki have created a fractal desktop :)01:21
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lcuk(and found/adjusted a pic to match)01:21
Maceresxi box is working pretty good now01:21
Macerstill thin01:21
Macerk my zimbra vm is a little on the slow side.. might need to tweak some more resources to it01:21
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_011659.lib.scr.png01:22
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GeneralAntillesDrunk StsN800, wanna look again and see if it makes a little more sense? :P01:29
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_voting_rights01:29
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Macerhm. is rdp encrypted?01:42
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lardmannight all01:48
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wazdlcuk: why the time on the thumbnail is 1 second forward?)01:51
lcuklink?01:52
wazdhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_004545.lib.scr.png01:52
lcukit will have ticked over before it drew the inner frame01:52
lcukit shows live stuff01:52
lcukand that desktop in a desktop brings the machine to its knees!01:52
lcukit gets about 5fps01:52
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lcuki disabled it soon after01:53
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_011659.lib.scr.png01:53
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lcuki kinda got text editing working as well :)01:55
lcuki can select text and type over it (sometimes, its got bugs)01:55
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tonyyarussoFYI, OS2008 does not handle a full root partition gracefully.03:29
andyrocksanyone know if amule works in maemo?03:30
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Andrewfblackhow do I install something and make it install the version I want if there are several in repos04:06
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tonyyarussoAndrewfblack: Generally with apt this is accomplished through something called "pinning" (easily googleable).  Whether the concept is seamlessly applicable to maemo or not I'm not sure, but I'd imagine it would be.04:44
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skiburanybody have debian install05:37
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tonyyarussoGrrr.  I have to re-flash my device after all.  I can't get it to boot.  :(05:52
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* b-man watches some gory htf episodes on youtube05:57
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tonyyarussoUm, the flashing instructions mention "turned on while holding down the Home button".  What's the Home button?06:02
johnxon the n810 it's the swap button with the two boxes06:03
johnxleft of the screen06:03
tonyyarussogotcha, ty06:04
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slonopotamushi06:52
* slonopotamus did something cool06:52
slonopotamusi build wifi driver and it seems to be working06:53
slonopotamuss/build/built/06:53
infobotslonopotamus meant: i built wifi driver and it seems to be working06:53
slonopotamuscx3110x: chip variant STLC455006:53
slonopotamusthis blows my mind. what is 'cx3110x' if chip is named 'stlc4550'?06:54
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tonyyarussoI'm trying to format the internal card device as outlined on https://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card, but I keep getting "umount: cannot umount /media/mmc2: Device or resource busy"07:24
tank-manturn off any programs accessing files on the card07:28
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dmsupermanpenguinbait still come around here?07:28
tonyyarussofound it - had a swap partition there that was active.07:34
tonyyarussoarrrg, need to know vi07:37
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tonyyarussoum, after flashing, how do I get the maps files back?08:19
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tonyyarussoHow do I make the little "abc" line go away (the one that shows the current shift/Fn status)?08:46
Meiz_n810controlpanel > inputmethods > languages > settings and uncheck all boxes08:48
tonyyarussoah, ty08:50
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tonyyarussoIs it possible to customize the applications menu, ie to add folders other than "Internet, Communications, etc."?08:54
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ibuffyyacks, maemo competes w/ android o.O08:58
ibuffyguess android can't have all the users08:58
StsN800hm?09:02
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Meiz_n810tonyyarusso: controlpanel > panels > customuze pp menu09:08
tonyyarussoah09:08
* Stskeeps yawns09:08
Corsacyawning time o/09:09
Stskeepsindeed09:09
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Stskeepsnothing like waking with a bad pain in the back too09:09
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Stskeepsibuffy: so, what makes you say it competes?09:11
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ibuffyStskeeps: they are both mobile OSs09:18
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ibuffyhow long will it be before maemo is completely using qt09:20
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ibuffyhopefully soon09:20
Stskeepsno clue, not next OS release09:20
Stskeepsand why make it completely qt when they can live together? the good thing about maemo is that you are not locked in to a specific toolkit09:21
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Stskeepsso why convert something to qt that is not broke? :P09:21
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ibuffyhmm, point taken09:21
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Stskeepsso if you're a freak and want motif on your tablet, you can :)09:23
jaskammm... motif09:24
Stskeepscompared to let's say android, which is yet-another-ui-framework09:24
jaskaand ties you to java and their vm?09:24
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Stskeepsthat too09:25
Stskeepsadmittedly they might do something right with api but doesn't help the fact i can't take my android phone in 2 years and use it for some other purpose09:26
Stskeepswhich i can with a tablet09:26
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Corsacmpf, sometimes mer doesn't see my wifi network09:27
Corsacnot sure why09:27
Corsac(and I can't reset the connection, I guess)09:27
Corsacas I can't right clic on the nm icon09:28
StskeepsCorsac: yeah, it is because cx3110x doesn't like constant scanning :/09:28
Stskeepsi have to patch NetworkManager for it09:28
Stskeepsit would be better if there was tap and hold on that icon, heh09:29
Corsacwe really need a newer kernel (but someone on #emdebian said that powermanagement wasn't really available on more recent kernels :/ )09:29
CorsacStskeeps: tap & hold requires something special?09:29
Corsac(patched gtk or stuff like that?)09:29
Corsacor just some tuning in evdev?09:29
Stskeepsmm, gtk level, we have patched gtk09:29
Stskeepsnm-applet is just "a normal gtk app" so09:30
Corsachttp://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=49548709:30
Corsacsome people are interested too ;p09:30
ibuffyStskeeps: what do you mean "yet-another-ui-framework"?09:30
Stskeepsibuffy: it is what it is, it is just another ui framework deep down, incompatible with the rest09:31
Stskeepsswt, swing, awt, windows forms, whatever symbian uses, gtk, qt, etc..09:32
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Stskeepsand android doesn't allow space for other players on the platform09:32
CorsacStskeeps: can I disable the virtual keyboard on mer? and can I activate the “Fn” key for the hw keyboard o n810? KOr is that not yet supported and I should code it if I want it? :)09:32
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slonopotamusStskeeps, hi. i still don't understand what is 'cx3110x'. insmod cx3110x.ko, dmesg: cx3110x: chip variant STLC4550.09:32
Corsacslonopotamus: the wlan chip09:33
slonopotamusCorsac, then what's 'stlc4550'?09:33
Corsacthe chip variant?09:33
Stskeepsslonopotamus: cx3110x is a connex or something09:33
StskeepsCorsac: setxkbmap -model nokiarx44 -layout something, something is described in Known issues09:34
slonopotamusCorsac, how that differs?09:34
slonopotamusStskeeps, connex - ?09:34
Stskeepsslonopotamus: higher level product, lower level variant?09:34
Stskeepsso high level product is the CX3110X chip, and the variant of it is the STLC4550 :P09:34
slonopotamuscrap.09:35
Corsacslonopotamus: will check09:35
slonopotamusthen we don't have 'cx3110x' chip.09:35
Stskeepsit makes more sense in the modern driver.09:35
Corsacdamn09:35
CorsacStskeeps: will check09:35
slonopotamuswe have 'stlc4550' chip.09:35
tonyyarussoIs it possible to install additional languages / locales?09:35
tonyyarusso(specifically, English/Canada)09:35
Stskeepsto what?09:35
StskeepsCorsac: and yes, you can disable it too09:35
tonyyarussoFor the system overall, that is.09:35
StskeepsMaemo? there should be support09:36
slonopotamusthis drives me crazy09:36
slonopotamusat least i built a driver and it even happily insmoded.09:36
Stskeepsslonopotamus: cx3110x driver supports two different chip types09:36
Stskeepsand the driver works for stlc4550 and one other09:36
Stskeepsit also worked for the 770 on their kernel09:36
* slonopotamus thinks if he should publish stage with xorg or not09:37
slonopotamusoh. you'd say "whether i should publish", right?09:38
Stskeepsboth works i guess09:38
Corsacok lets reboot09:39
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ibuffythanks Stskeeps09:41
CorsacStskeeps: do you think using the tslib patch for tap&hold would make sense?09:41
Corsacor will this definitely require a patch for gtk?09:42
slonopotamusi want to use tslib patch.09:42
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CorsacI should setup a scratchbox somewhere and rebuild that to test it09:42
slonopotamusCorsac, you're talking about http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=495487 right?09:42
StskeepsCorsac: i don't entirely agree with the level09:43
Stskeepsand i am afraid it might break some things horribly in libhildon :P09:43
Corsacslonopotamus: yes09:43
CorsacStskeeps: oh?09:43
Stskeepsas it moves tap and hold detection to a different level09:43
Corsachhm09:43
Corsacin maemo the tap&hold is at gtk level?09:44
Stskeepsyeah09:44
Corsacand the used patch is not usable in Mer?09:44
Corsactoo recent gtk?09:45
Stskeepsit is probably usable but we run our own branch of tslib xorg driver09:45
Stskeepsalso, let us say you are drawing in xournal.. you are going to cause tap and hold way too much09:45
Corsacif you dont move the stylus, yes09:46
Corsacbut aiui the “right clic” event is only emitted if you hold the stylus for .5s at least, in the same area09:46
Stskeepsalso, having an animation appear for tap and hold in progress is useful :P09:48
Corsacyeah09:48
Corsacbut having tap&hold without animation is better than no tap&hold at all, I guess09:49
slonopotamusStskeeps, animation is only required if timeout is too long :)09:49
Corsacbut yeah it's two different roads09:49
Corsacslonopotamus: you have to have a quite long timeout09:49
Corsacif you don't want the right clic to be activated09:49
Corsac+too much09:49
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slonopotamusCorsac, yes, but that doesn't make my statement false :)09:51
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Corsacthat just means animation is required :)09:54
slonopotamusi wonder who'll patch qt, wxwidgets, etc.09:56
Corsacthat's why it shouldn't be implemented in qt, gtk or whatever09:56
Corsacbut at a single point09:56
Corsachmhm is the notification area a real system tray?09:57
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Stskeepsyeah10:03
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violetdreamOk, I may be asking some stupid questions here, so please forgive me.10:05
violetdreamThere is an application I was trying to compile which is GNOME based and needs some GTK libraries.10:05
violetdreamIs this possible in Maemo?10:05
Stskeepswell, we have GTK, which libraries in question?10:05
violetdreamLet me double check again.10:06
Stskeepsbe aware that some of the libraries might be horribly outdated in diablo, but it shouldn't be that bad..10:06
violetdreamShoot, it needs libgnomeui it looks like - no good?10:07
Stskeepssec10:07
violetdreamgtk+-2.0 >= 2.8.0 libgnomeui-2.0 gtksourceview-2.0 gtkspell-2.010:07
violetdreamand libgtkhtml10:08
Stskeepsyeah, that might be difficult :/ what do you need it for, if i may ask?10:09
violetdreamI was interested in porting the Inform 7 platform10:09
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violetdreamThere's a command line based one, but for some reason tehre's no source, which is weird.10:09
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violetdreamhttp://www.inform-fiction.org/I7/Download.html10:10
Stskeepsah10:10
violetdreamI tried the armv one because the name sounded the same, hehe, but it didn't work.10:10
Stskeepsi -think- it is difficult to get libgnomeui.. one of the reasons we work on Mer, is to make stuff like this a little easier :P10:10
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violetdreamI'm not that familiar with that, but I've heard of it. I'd rather not replace the OS, is that what it does?10:12
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StsN801more like dual-boot10:17
hahloStsN801: is there x86 installer of mer?10:18
StsN801since nokia isn't developing Maemo5 for n8x0 we are taking a different approach which may make porting easier10:19
StsN801hahlo, for hw? there's a guide10:19
hahloStsN801: ok, does it run on eeepc?10:20
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violetdreamHmm, ok, that sounds like a cool project. This is very odd that the site doesn't have the source of the command line Inform 7 thing :/10:20
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StsN801hahlo, it runs on a crap via c3 laptop so i am sure it probably could10:21
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hahlook should try that10:22
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StsN801lo _BuBU10:28
_BuBUhello10:28
StsN801_BuBU, loox port now released btw10:28
JaffaMorning, all10:31
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JaffaGeneralAntilles/lardman; do we know if dneary's going to send out another mail?10:35
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rjelarihi all10:37
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Jaffadneary: was there a fourth email sent out containing the link to maemo.org/vote/? Lots of people dunno how to vote - it's clear in the blog posts, but that's not necessarily the best route10:57
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X-FadeJaffa: I've asked Dave to add the link to the wiki articles too.11:03
X-FadeSo there is at least a pointer there..11:03
JaffaIndeed. There are.11:04
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X-FadeJaffa: I see Dave sent me a 4th message to send out ;)11:15
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RST38hAnyone else experience problems with the latest FF3 update?11:19
RST38hAs in "hangups, using 100% CPU"11:19
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X-FadeHmm unified chargers for all phones regardless of brands.12:01
X-FadeNice..12:01
GeneralAntillesUSB?12:02
X-FadeYep.12:02
Stskeepsyeah, that was what i was thinking12:02
Stskeepsbut knowing EU they will probably come up with some silly system.12:02
Stskeeps:P12:02
RST38hMiniUSB, MicroUSB?12:02
Stskeepscharge-by-RS232!12:02
RST38hSts: charge-by-SCART!12:02
Stskeepsor that, yes12:02
Stskeepsadmittedly, i do like scart. compared to the wire hell12:03
X-FadeUSB, EU was starting to look into regulating it..12:03
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GeneralAntillesYou guys are your ridiculous over regulation. . . .12:05
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GeneralAntillesand you wonder why everything costs more for you. :P12:05
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: on the other hand, there are good things :P12:07
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GeneralAntillesLike really ridiculously expensive electronics discouraging impulse buys? :P12:07
RST38hNot ridiculously expensive really12:07
RST38hUnless you are talking about öê12:08
RST38hUK12:08
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it isn't that bad really. close to zero electronics import tax from the US and 25% VAT here12:09
RST38hSts: US has no federal VAT and state taxes are in 5-6% range12:09
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StskeepsRST38h: yeah, but vat is a standard price of living in .dk so12:10
Stskeepsand the prices are still cheaper than buying tablet retail for instance12:10
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RST38hSts: general does not live in .dk, he just wonders about your electronics prices :)12:12
Stskeepshehe12:12
RST38hSts: Any time he does that, ask him how much it costs to mend a broken knee12:12
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StskeepsRST38h: think that discussion already happened :>12:13
RST38hSts: Yea, I remember12:13
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GeneralAntillesNokia went an interesting direction with the N86's buttons.12:14
Stskeepsthe [QW] buttons?12:14
Stskeepsah, no, that was the E something12:14
GeneralAntillesThe keypad is totally different from anything I've seen them put out in the last 5 years.12:14
GeneralAntillesE5512:14
RST38hit is vaguely familiar though12:14
RST38hAh, found why it is familiar: http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/images/object_images/535x535/10319047.jpg12:15
Stskeepssince when is 800mhz underpowered for MIDs? :P12:15
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GeneralAntillesWoo, StarTAC12:16
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, since 2-hour battery life became the "norm"?12:16
Stskeepsoh boy.12:16
wizaI'm just waiting for a proper android phone12:17
GeneralAntillesOh snap12:17
GeneralAntillesOMAP412:17
Stskeepsi'm waiting for the merphone.12:17
wizabefore that comes out, I'll be using e9012:17
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GeneralAntillesHaha12:17
GeneralAntillesThe new ISP supports up to 20MP12:17
GeneralAntillesPerhaps they should hook it up to a Hasselblad12:18
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: No, they're up to 50M by now ;)12:18
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, on one of the "low-end" models. :P12:18
GeneralAntilleshttp://linuxdevices.com/files/misc/ti_omap44x_blk_diag.png12:19
X-FadeNice ;)12:19
X-FadeHDMI on your tablet ;)12:20
RST38hSts: Will a mermaid do?12:20
X-FadeOr a WUXGA touch screen?12:20
StskeepsRST38h: mermaid?12:21
RST38hit is strange that BlueLink and WiLink do not share I2C interface with NaviLink12:21
RST38hSts: instead of a merphone that is12:21
GeneralAntilleshttp://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9955815446.html12:21
RST38hand the touch controller uses SPI12:22
RST38hNo, not getting it. Why not have a unified bus?12:22
StskeepsRST38h: if i can flash it with whatever.. :P12:22
GeneralAntillesI wonder if we'll see this on the next tablet.12:22
RST38hSts: umgh.12:22
GeneralAntillesDual-core. . . .12:22
* GeneralAntilles goosebumps.12:22
RST38h4 cores!12:23
RST38hLooks like initial OMAP4 is a dual core chip but the next ones will go to 4 cores. If anyone needs them of course12:23
X-FadeRealistically, you will see this in devices in 2011.12:24
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, there may be a slightly shorter time to market since it's slightly less of an upgrade compared to OMAP2/OMAP312:25
GeneralAntillesOMAP3 only took about a year for the first device to ship.12:25
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Nah, if you look at OMAP3. It was announced a long time ago..12:25
GeneralAntillesArchos 5 last Summer.12:25
GeneralAntilles200712:25
X-FadeThey say volumes in 2nd half 2010.12:26
GeneralAntilles2006, actually.12:26
GeneralAntillesHum12:26
GeneralAntillesAnybody recall what the Post-Harmattan codename is?12:27
hahloi red newspaper that internet tablets are in use for small group12:27
GeneralAntillesIt was picked on Jaiku. . . .12:27
StskeepsIl something wasn't it_12:27
aquatixheh, ``[...]along with C64x DSPs'' why do i read that as Commodore6412:28
aquatix(that linuxdevices.com link)12:28
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Inverna ?12:28
Stskeepshttp://qgil.jaiku.com/presence/5207812912:28
GeneralAntilleshttp://qgil.jaiku.com/presence/52078129#c-205304012:28
GeneralAntillesBitch. . . . :P12:28
X-FadeMe fastah!12:28
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wizae90 has nice qwerty keyboard, why did nokia dropped numeral keys from the newest models12:29
wizan810 keyboard is a big step back from e9012:29
wizaI guess my next phone will be HTC, if they make proper android phone :)12:30
wizaor nokia makes a linux phone, with proper keyboard, must have in Helsinki traffic :)12:31
RST38hlack of space12:31
X-FadeMer on N97? :)12:31
StskeepsX-Fade: give me bootloader info and i would be up for it..12:32
Stskeeps:P12:32
GeneralAntillesWhat is the status of Linux on N-series phones?12:32
Stskeepssigned firmware (afaik)12:32
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Non-existent?12:32
RST38hGeneral: 012:32
RST38hor NIL whatever you prefer12:32
* RST38h frankly believes E90 keyboard is a step back from E7012:33
X-FadeStskeeps: yeah, they are protected somehow..12:33
wizahttp://www.htc.com/www/product/touchpro2/overview.html <- that with linux would be close to perfect12:33
Stskeepswiza: admittedly they have gotten the keyboard right12:34
wizaStskeeps: yes, that is also right in e90, problem is that slideout is a lot better than clamshell on e9012:35
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wizaand it seems that nokia has some problems with it's website... :)12:37
GeneralAntillesCan the referenda names be fixed without breaking everything?12:41
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yes, Dave will send me updated names.12:41
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GeneralAntillesand can somebody bounce in and fix this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=412512:45
* GeneralAntilles notices the notice for people to stop updating the itT wiki was noticed.12:46
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: refresh ;)12:48
X-Fadehmm ever more gnome..12:49
X-FadeOk, dneary's email instead.12:52
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GeneralAntillesEvery day I delay blogging seems like I have to add yet another thing to the list. . . .12:57
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roopehopefully the Touch Pro 2 is faster than the first one.12:59
roopeThe first one was really painful to use. It took a second for it to react to a gesture.12:59
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* GeneralAntilles drops GSoC 09 to the March edition.13:00
wazdhello everybody)13:01
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tonyyarussoAfter I've set up boot from SD, how do I change what the default is?  It's still trying to boot from the system memory unless I choose otherwise at the menu.13:07
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qwerty12Read the bootmenu readme, it tells you how.13:08
GeneralAntillestonyyarusso, the steps are listed at the bottom of the wiki page, aren't teyh?13:08
GeneralAntilless/teyh/they/13:08
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: tonyyarusso, the steps are listed at the bottom of the wiki page, aren't they?13:08
tonyyarussoGeneralAntilles: well, I got shunted around a bunch of wiki pages, so I'm not sure anymore.13:08
tonyyarussoI'll look...13:08
GeneralAntilles~boot-sd13:09
infobotmethinks boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card13:09
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GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card#Set_the_default_boot_device13:09
lopzhola13:10
tonyyarussothat looks like it'll work - trying13:10
* Jucato coincidentally just blogged about dual booting the other day...13:10
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tonyyarussookay, that worked.13:17
tonyyarussoIs there a config file to edit for these things, or do you have to use things like cal-tool?13:17
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Stskeepsmorning qgil1 :)13:21
wazdhola qgil1 :)13:22
Jaffahi qgil113:22
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qgil1hi there13:27
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qgil1HELLO FROM BARCELONA!!!13:28
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qgil1no, just joking  :)13:29
X-FadeHeh ;)13:29
wazdqgil1: Do you know, is there any live stream from curren Keynote bout open mobile platform?13:29
Stskeepshad a minor heart attack of expectations there ;)13:29
GeneralAntillesHaha13:30
wazdqgil1: http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm <- they took away the banner13:30
jeremiahOkay, are you in Spain or not qgil1?13:30
qgil1I'm in Helsinki, as usual13:30
qgil1wazd: no idea, sorry13:31
jeremiahThats kinda like Spain. Only a little colder. :)13:31
GeneralAntillesUp, here come the icons.13:31
qgil1actually it's quite sunny today13:31
qgil1if I'd forget about the -10C this morning...13:31
wizaqgil1: yes, so it blinds you while your freezing13:31
wizaand yes, I'm in Helsinki too :D13:32
qgil1wiza: I was about to say 'you know what I'm talking about'13:32
wiza:)13:32
wizacar warms up just about when I get to work...13:33
lardmanmorning all13:33
wizaafternoon13:33
GeneralAntilleslardman, OMAP4 announced.13:34
lardmanah, interesting, linky?13:34
jeremiahhttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9955815446.html?kc=rss13:34
lardmanthanks13:34
wazdhttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgetmobile.com/media/2009/02/n86-official-01.jpg <- such a fake screenshot13:34
lardmanjeremiah: how are you settling in?13:35
Stskeepswazd: now if it was actually true that would be kinda neat :P13:35
wazdStskeeps: phone can't give you that DOF :)13:35
StskeepsDOF?13:36
GeneralAntilleswazd, wouldn't it be great if they used real screenshots for all PR photos?13:36
wazdStskeeps: depth of field13:36
jeremiahlardman: Well thank you,13:36
wazdGeneralAntilles: yep :)13:36
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Stskeepswazd: ah-13:36
tekojowazd: basically could, hard to say without a wider picture13:36
GeneralAntilles"Man, that display looks like shit."13:36
jeremiahlardman: There is lots to read and grok.13:36
lardmanGeneralAntilles: something omap3 would be fine for the time being, hint hint qgil1 ;)13:36
lardmanjeremiah: cool, glad all is well :)13:36
jeremiahNew tools, new processes, but it is all very interesting.13:36
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GeneralAntillesNow he just needs an actual device. ;)13:37
Stskeepsjeremiah doesn't own a tablet? :o13:38
wazdSubalashii asaga akelu13:38
wazdaw, johnx is asleep now)13:38
jeremiahStskeeps: I have an old one, but I loaned it out last summer. :}13:38
jeremiahheh13:38
Stskeepsjeremiah: mer 0.8 published last night btw, if you wanted to try out the vmdk13:38
jeremiahStskeeps: Yeah, I would like to try that out.13:39
jeremiahI have been fooling around in the sdk recently, looking at the details of packages.13:39
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jeremiahI also have a bit of a backlog already, have to help with packaging some things, I think timeless is eager for me to get back to him for example.13:40
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, wanna give me a quick rundown of major improvements and things you want me to link to?13:40
jeremiahI'm going to post a blog post on the best way to get my eyeballs to look at things, sometimes it is hard to be in this channel all the time.13:41
jeremiahalthough irssi and screen rock!13:41
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Stskeepsjeremiah: just learn the "Y: X, ping" (.. later, "X: Y, pong" method and it is easier to catch up with people13:41
Jaffajeremiah: is your blog syndicated to planet.m.o?13:42
jeremiahJaffa: Yep! :)13:42
jeremiahStskeeps: Whaddya mean exactly? (What are the values of X and Y?)13:42
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lardmanI wonder if people could sumbit requests to you, and have them lined up and visible somewhere?13:42
jeremiahlardman: That is what I was thinking too . . .13:43
qwerty12Dedicate a bugzilla to jeremiah ;P13:43
jeremiahThen I could post links to build results and finished packages . . .13:43
Stskeepsjeremiah: as in we don't really expect people to be constantly available here, so we just lay a "nickname, ping?" and then when the person is back, they answer pong :P13:43
GeneralAntillesI'm in favor of having them in the form of large rocks, with a webcam feed so we can watch them build up around jeremiah. ;)13:43
jeremiahStskeeps: Aha, clever. I will try to adopt that. Must double check that I am logging irssi13:43
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: beagleboard port, better support for nokia rx-44 keyboard, you can actually install applications now, .. just generally more sanity (it's a boring release), http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=265081#post265081 really says most of it13:43
jeremiahGeneralAntilles: Ooooh, sounds comfy!13:44
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Stskeepsjeremiah: using /away and then /away again when back will show highlights of your nickname too, so13:44
jeremiahHow do people feel about a trac instance? That is quite useful13:44
jeremiahStskeeps: Yeah, I am lazy and have not been doing that but I will try to be more conscientious13:44
X-Fadejeremiah: For what?13:45
tonyyarussoHow can I edit the boot timeout?  (I tried editing /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.conf, but it's read-only)13:45
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: the interesting part is that we add diablo extras directly to the mer installation13:45
Stskeepsand the call for developers to check their apps13:45
qwerty12tonyyarusso, mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs13:45
jeremiahX-Fade: Well, people could submit packages to be reviewed/built/etc to a trac list, or should that go into bugzilla?13:45
X-Fadejeremiah: Bug reporting is supposed to be done in bugzilla. The problem is, where to file a bug against a random package?13:46
tonyyarussoqwerty12: excellent13:46
jeremiahX-Fade: Yeah. I am not sure what a good way to do this is. What do you think?13:47
jeremiahX-Fade: What do you do now if someone wants packaging help? Do you reply via email?13:48
JaffaWatched wiki page?13:48
jeremiahWatched wiki could be good . . .13:48
JaffaYou could take requests via email, but update your queue on the wiki13:48
GeneralAntillesIf gforge weren't so nasty, maybe a Garage project13:48
jeremiahI will start there anyway13:48
jeremiahGeneralAntilles: I agree, Gforge makes me cry.13:48
X-FadeI have been toying with the idea of making a build log page where one can file bugs too. So you can see the status of each package and easily file bugs.13:48
jeremiahX-Fade: Hmm, that sounds interesting.13:49
X-FadeA bit of a cross between the debian packages page, gnome build bot pages etc..13:49
jeremiahI should look at the GNOME build bots, I have never looked at them.13:49
X-Fadejeremiah: http://build.gnome.org/13:49
jeremiahThanks X-Fade, helpful as always. :)13:50
jeremiahWoah, 50% of the charges against the Pirate Bay are dropped.13:50
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jeremiahhttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9955815446.html?kc=rss13:50
* qwerty12 cheers13:50
jeremiahhttp://torrentfreak.com/50-of-charges-against-pirate-bay-dropped-090217/13:50
jeremiahDistributed Hash Tables FTW!13:51
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qwerty12Hah, hell yeah.13:52
* Stskeeps thinks thepiratebay.org technologically wise is deepily flawed, but that's just me.13:52
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RST38hNokia to preinstall Skype on N9714:03
RST38hWhat? Skype developers finally learned how to program for Symbian?14:03
lardmanX-Fade: where have you been anyway?14:03
lardmanX-Fade: holiday?14:04
StskeepsRST38h: think it has been on symbian before?14:05
RST38hSts: It has not14:05
Stskeepsk14:05
RST38hSts: That was pissing a lot of people14:05
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RST38hWashPost is having another fit of good journalism: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/16/AR2009021601391.html?nav=igoogle14:08
hahloload-applet seems to work better in mer than diablo, is it same program?14:08
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Stskeepshahlo: yeah14:09
Stskeepsmorning b-man14:09
RST38hit is. there was a recent update to it though, so your versions may be a little bit different14:09
b-manmorning Stskeeps :)14:09
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* b-man leaves for school, see ya in 7 hours ;p14:14
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Stskeepshf14:14
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wazdhttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/02/android-magic-top-new.jpg <- eww14:14
* Stskeeps still doesn't see the impressive about android14:15
jeremiahStskeeps: I agree, Android is looking a little weak right now.14:15
Stskeepsthen again i am probably heavily biased :P14:16
* aquatix is somehow impressed by http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/16/samsung-omniahd-hands-on-now-with-more-touchwiz/14:16
aquatixthat's one nice S60 device14:17
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aquatixi'm not quite impressed by android btw14:17
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aquatixit's ok, but that's about it14:17
jeremiahWell, they have to show more phones running it, that's for sure.14:18
wazdwhats so cool bout AM-OLED screens?14:18
wazdI haven't seen them live so it's difficult to understand14:18
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lcuklow power consumption i believe14:18
lcukand dont they retain image without power14:18
jeremiahWell OLED is organic LED, so that comes with some advantages in the use of materials I believe.14:20
mgedminwhat's the AM part then?14:20
wazdactive-matrix organic light-emitting diode,14:20
wazd    * Very thin and lighter weight14:20
wazd    * Greatly minimized propensity for breakage14:20
wazd    * Lower-power, highly rugged with superior image quality, and low cost compared to the current LCD displays14:20
wazd    * Due to their inherent ruggedness, allow a unique form factor of conformability and rollability during use, transportation and storage.14:20
* mgedmin remembers passive matrices from the early LCD days and shudders14:20
aquatixwazd: they're really clear too i think14:21
aquatixbesides, that OmniaHD has a really highres screen and some interesting GUI14:21
wazdok, amoled is cool :)14:22
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qgil1mmm I can't find that bug about applications should open new browser window instead of using the currently open...14:22
RST38hwazd: OLED has got a single big drawback14:22
wazdThe display is very difficult to view in sunlight.14:22
wazdok, amoled sucks)14:22
RST38hwazd: It dies fairly quickly, usually starting from the edges14:23
wazdRST38h: that's kinda whole oled thing problem14:23
* mgedmin finds the wikipedia article about OLEDs and gives up understanding the various kinds in 5 minutes14:23
RST38hwazd: That is why large-scale OLEDs have been so elusive14:23
wazdRST38h: the best ting is transflective screen I think)14:24
RST38hmgedmin: You only want this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_light-emitting_diode#Disadvantages14:24
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RST38hThe acronym galore is mainly due to OLEDs still being in active development, give 'em time :)14:25
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wazdSeems like HTC ceo is a local star on MWC :) He has appeared on 3 keynotes already)14:27
qgil1hum, andre__ leaves when I'm asking for a bug number...  :)14:28
X-Fadeqgil1: He tends to do that often ;)14:29
qgil1there is still gmail, X-Fade14:29
X-Fadeheh..14:30
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roopeLots of new touch phones. Have to look at videos.14:31
roopeThe Omnia UI looked quite messy, but perhaps they're still fixing it.14:32
GeneralAntillesqgil1, the noe I remember was filed for the RSS reader.14:32
aquatixroope: it's alpha14:32
aquatixroope: and there's a lot of widgets there14:33
RST38hEverybody made an iPhone =)14:33
aquatix*sigh*14:33
roopeaquatix: yeah, the app UI's didn't fit the screen yet etc.14:33
roopeBut nice to see somebody else than Nokia using the S60 v5.0.14:33
jeremiahI know, they are all iPhones, what is up with that?14:33
aquatixthat's not entirely surprising, given the resolution14:33
GeneralAntillesqgil1, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2977 ?14:33
aquatixroope: indeed14:34
aquatixroope: same with SE14:34
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GeneralAntillesjeremiah, no camelCase! :P14:36
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qgil1GeneralAntilles: yes, that's the one - thanks!14:37
jeremiahAh, this is a media wiki.14:38
RST38hroope: Is it true that Omnia uses S60v5?14:38
rooperst38h: Looking at the video, yes. They had the exact same virtual keyboard, for instance.14:38
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roopeAnd some of the apps were identical.14:38
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RST38hroope: Google says it is winmo 6.114:38
roopeAs the 5800 xpressmusic, for instance.14:38
RST38hwait, plain omnia is 6.114:39
roopeThe engadget article says that "first tiime they've done this on S60".14:39
RST38hah14:39
aquatixRST38h: the OmniaHD is S60v514:39
GeneralAntillesqgil1, that'll be $5. ;)14:39
RST38hwith omniahd they apparently ditched winmo for s6014:39
aquatixindeed14:39
* GeneralAntilles could go for a Samsung S60 handset.14:40
roopeyeah, it's clear from the video.14:40
RST38hGeneral: same here14:40
GeneralAntillesI've got an SGH-A717 and it's a great phone.14:40
GeneralAntillesI actually hadn't even realized Samsung had been shipping S60 phones.14:41
aquatixsome14:41
GeneralAntillesNone to the US, though.14:42
aquatixi think they've shipped a phone with every (major) OS14:42
aquatixcould be14:42
RST38hGeneral: You can order one by mail14:42
RST38hThe idea that your cell provider should also sell you a phone is ridiculous anyway14:43
Stskeepsjeremiah: happen to know of a good guide on making source packages with multiple binary packages?14:43
GeneralAntillesRST38h, do they actually work on US bands?14:43
GeneralAntillesI'm fairly certain they don't.14:43
RST38hGeneral: GSM ones usually do nowadays14:43
aquatixRST38h: i have been buying sim-only subscriptions and loose gsm's for a while now14:43
RST38h3G you will have ot check14:43
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, 3G is the important part.14:44
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RST38hOmnia HD has 360 x 640 pixels <== it is S60v5 all right14:45
GeneralAntilles3.2" vs 3.7" I'd take the 5800. . . .14:45
GeneralAntillesWonder what CPU14:45
* mgedmin is very disappointed in HSDPA modems, especially ones that fail to connect for 40 minutes straight14:46
jeremiahStskeeps: I think so, or at least I have seen it donw.14:46
jeremiahLet me check.14:46
RST38hOmnia HD 3G bands: HSDPA 900 / 1900 / 210014:46
RST38hGeneral: Is yours there?14:47
GeneralAntillesARM11 600MHz14:47
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qgil1GeneralAntilles: sure = one beer in the next Maemo Summit14:48
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aquatixRST38h: oh, only 360x640?14:50
aquatixGeneralAntilles: omniahd has 600MHz omap3 iirc14:50
qgil1btw I just found out that independent developers will have free entrance in OSiM World: http://event.osimworld.com/developer14:50
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Stskeeps'lo johnx|zaurus14:53
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RST38haquatix: that is what S60v5 uses right now14:53
johnx|zaurushi14:53
GeneralAntillesaquatix, is it?14:53
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: marking powerlaunch task as done - i've mapped all the functions to Mer specific stuff14:53
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qwerty12_N800hi johnx|zaurus14:54
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: alright, sounds good14:54
GeneralAntillesTHAT would be a big advantage over the 5800. ;)14:54
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johnx|zaurusqwerty12_N800, awesome work on powerlaunch (!!)14:54
johnx|zaurusthat was fast14:54
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: so you can actually shut down sanely now? :P14:54
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: yep :p14:54
aquatixGeneralAntilles: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i8910_omnia_hd-review-317.php14:54
roopeyou need a lot more power to push 800x480 pixels on screen than 480x320.14:55
qwerty12_N800johnx|zaurus: hehe, taking out the battery got too annoying for me :)14:55
johnx|zaurusah. i just did the sudo reboot thing14:55
aquatixit doesn't really state the cpu14:56
* qwerty12_N800 is too lazy to fire up an xterm :)14:56
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* qwerty12_N800 wonders if samsung service manuals are as easily leaked as nokia & sony ericsson ones14:57
johnx|zaurusi really need to work on more mer/zaurus stuff. even in its current state its already really nice to use14:58
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* johnx|zaurus heads home from work. back in 2 hours14:59
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aquatixheh, i read `heads home for work'14:59
* aquatix really needs to wake up14:59
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timelE61igan: i think a general product in extras could work15:02
timelE61iAs an intro to bugzilla for random extras packages15:02
GeneralAntillesHum15:02
GeneralAntillesWell, what about contacting maintainers?15:02
aquatixGeneralAntilles: ``Samsung i8910 Omnia HD runs on a new 600 MHz CPU and has a dedicated graphic processor chip.'' and if i'm not mistaken, i heard it was an omap315:03
aquatixbut i thought the screen was more highres15:03
timelE61iqgil: if you can't find the new window browser bug, i can get it for you15:03
aquatixnow i'm still torn15:03
aquatixN97 stays nice ;)15:04
X-FadetimelE61i: I think it can work, but it can swamp bugzilla with bug reports which are not followed up on?15:04
timelE61iit's not a big hazard15:05
X-FadetimelE61i: Who would they be assigned to by default? Our debmaster?15:05
X-Fade;)15:05
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timelE61iIt means people can easily determine a given package isn't maintained15:05
timelE61ii think debmaster or a community relations person15:05
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timelE61iWe should try to have a consistent bug summary for easy searching15:06
GeneralAntillesaquatix, I saw mention of ARM11 on Google15:06
GeneralAntillesSo, dunno.15:06
timelE61i(or we could use the alias field as the package name)15:06
aquatixGeneralAntilles: ah15:08
aquatixhm, what is Samsung's track record with software updates?15:08
timelE61iDo phone manufacturers offer software updates? :)15:09
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aquatixtimelE61i: now and then15:10
aquatixeven SE15:10
timelE61ise?15:10
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aquatixthey even made my Sony Ericsson m600i functional15:10
aquatixtimelE61i: Sony Ericsson15:10
roopeomnia HD has a resistive screen, that's interesting.15:10
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aquatixit's quite a nice unit15:11
aquatixand being able to play highres video like that... jum15:11
RST38hSamsung apparently does update firmware15:11
wazdit's a shang-tsung15:11
wazdI bet there's something shitty in it :)15:11
aquatixwazd: yeah, i'm not a fan, but this looks nice15:12
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* qwerty12_N800 finds samsung's software shit but the phone themselves decent. I guess with S60, the software part is solved15:13
GeneralAntillesI'd bet Qualcomm15:13
GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/quips.cgi?action=show "Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder." political or just stupid? ;)15:14
GeneralAntilles"wipro" <- spam15:14
Stskeepswoo, my laptop is back from repairs \o/15:16
Stskeepsnow i can code on the couch again15:17
qgil1spam deleted15:18
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aquatixqwerty12_N800: yeah15:22
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dexterkhey everyone, I have a develop problem,I wrote a code ,play n800`s camera with GDK , but it always be in dark , a lot of space of the window I put it to view camera15:22
dexterkany one has the similar exprements?15:22
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jeremiahHey timelE61i - Can you provide an URL for your packaging issue?15:25
jeremiahI want to try to reproduce it now that I have a recent sdk up and running.15:25
jeremiahAlso, if people want to spam me, feel free to do so here; http://wiki.maemo.org/TrackingPackaging15:26
jeremiahStupid name for the page but we can change it. :)15:26
JaffaGeneralAntilles: A lyric from a song I like, "absinthe makes the heart grow fonder"15:27
AndrewfblackMorning15:28
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Stskeepsmorning15:29
* Stskeeps tests flashable Mer images15:29
timelE61ijEremiah: um15:30
timelE61iGan or sdomeone has15:30
GeneralAntillesOne sec. . . .15:30
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jeremiahGot it.15:32
timelE61isorry, i'm wandering around15:32
jeremiahnp15:32
* timelE61i goes to kick a box15:32
timelE61ii'm told it takes about 6 kicks to start15:33
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Phoodushi, is Deblet orphaned due to Mer?  I really, really would rather have a full desktop-ish layout instead of Hildon, and hate to see it left incomplete15:44
AndrewfblackPhoodus, just install lxde on top of mer15:45
StskeepsPhoodus: yes, it is, but it is perfectly possible to grab lxde15:45
* GeneralAntilles doesn't get full-desktop on the tablets. . . .15:45
Stskeepsjust don't have any grandeur visions of battery life Æ=15:45
Stskeeps:)15:45
Phoodusdoesn't that mean that both Maemo/Hildon and Mer/LXDE are both taking RAM?15:45
GeneralAntilleslol. . . .15:46
StskeepsPhoodus: nop15:46
Stskeepsseperate sessions15:46
Stskeepsthey may take space, yes, but not ram15:46
AndrewfblackPhoodus, only one runs at a time and if you look at my post on itt it tells you how to change back and forth15:46
Phoodusoh, ok.  I tried out Deblet and liked it a lot, but it doesn't see the wlan and if you try to resize the keyboard it freaks out :-P15:47
slonopotamusStskeeps, how's battery life in mer now?15:47
Phoodusand the "debian in a file from maemo" didn't tickle my fancy, thought Mer was like that15:47
Stskeepsslonopotamus: tbh i haven't tested recently15:47
slonopotamusStskeeps, tbh - to be hacked?15:47
Stskeepsslonopotamus: when we actually get a battery meter ..15:47
slonopotamus:)15:47
Stskeepsslonopotamus: no, to be honest, but yes, to be hacked15:47
slonopotamushehe15:47
Andrewfblackit lasted all night for me15:48
slonopotamusAndrewfblack, n800 with maemo can live for ~5-7 days if left untouched15:48
Stskeepsslonopotamus: the fact wifi power saving was broken probably didn't help a lot either :P15:49
Andrewfblackslonopotamus, I know but Mer had only been last like 2 hours so its atleast improved without battery meter I don't know how much battery it left it might last that long15:49
Andrewfblackjust remembered I have to fix how to for installing lxde Mer 0.8 broke old howto15:50
slonopotamusStskeeps, tell me more :) will it hit me too?15:50
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, 30 days at the longest.15:50
Stskeepsslonopotamus: yes, it will15:50
Stskeepsslonopotamus: look at the wifi-powersave.py thingie15:50
slonopotamusAndrewfblack, 2 hours? how? it survives to 2 hours under 100% cpu load @400mhz15:51
slonopotamusStskeeps, what package?15:51
Stskeepsslonopotamus: dsme-tools15:51
slonopotamusStskeeps, k15:51
wazdhttp://i.gizmodo.com/5154841/how-not-to-make-a-touchscreen-phone15:51
wazdI told ya :)15:51
Andrewfblackslonopotamus, mer 0.7 had a bug with wifi that is fixed now so it killed battery rather fast it might have been longer then 2 hours but not much more.15:52
slonopotamuswazd, doesn't work with gnash :(15:52
slonopotamuswazd, flash movie15:52
slonopotamusAndrewfblack, okay15:52
GeneralAntilleswazd, iPhone whores don't know how to use resistive touch screen.s15:54
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GeneralAntilleswazd, ever tried handing a tablet to an iPhone owner?15:55
wazdOmnia is capacitive15:56
wazdThe Samsung Omnia HD still has the same lousy response when it comes to the touch part, even while its screen is capacitive instead of resistive.15:56
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AndrewfblackStskeeps, where is the instructions for getting FN key working at?15:56
wazdIt's just Shang-Tsung)15:56
GeneralAntillesI'm pretty sure it's resistive.15:57
RST38hwazd: the guy is probably wrong15:57
RST38hwazd: also, he is most likely trying to fondle it with his finger not with a pen15:57
StskeepsAndrewfblack: Known issues15:57
RST38hwazd: 5800 is also not very responsive to fingers15:57
Andrewfblackok thanks15:57
wazdRST38h: hm15:57
GeneralAntillesFat-thumbing resistive touchscreen doesn't work well.15:57
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GeneralAntillesAny tablet owner knows that.15:58
wazdGeneralAntilles: well, I type pretty well on the fullscreen keyboard15:58
wazdGeneralAntilles: just press a bit harder15:58
GeneralAntilleswazd, yes, so do I.15:58
GeneralAntilleswazd, you and I would have no trouble using that touchscreen.15:59
GeneralAntillesBut Apple fanboys always deliberately try to make resistive touchscreens look bad.15:59
GeneralAntillesThus, the video.15:59
wazdOh, I can read detailed review of Omnia HD at mobile-review.com :)16:00
GeneralAntillesThis is also why Apple doesn't talk about their products until they're ready to be released.16:00
GeneralAntillesAlpha-quality pre-release software rarely gets good press.16:00
RST38hwazd: having huge on screen buttons definitely help, but still, it is easier to use some tool like that little plastic trinagle coming with 580016:00
GeneralAntillesRST38h, i.e. guitar pick? :P16:01
RST38hyep16:01
RST38hbtw, capacitive touchscreens have a different problem16:01
RST38hthey are not very precise16:01
GeneralAntillesRight16:02
suihkulokkiRST38h: liar, why do you hate apple :(16:02
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GeneralAntillesEach technology has its own pros and cons.16:02
RST38hsuih: I don't hate apple16:02
RST38hI am kinda afraid of apple fans though16:02
suihkulokkithat was just a lousy apple fanboy parody16:02
RST38hah16:02
RST38hBtw, this means that neither s60v5 nor maemo UI will work well with capacitive screen16:03
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: prod16:03
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: *slap* :p16:03
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: is flasher able to flash both kernel and rootfs in one command when it is not a fiasco image_16:04
Stskeeps?16:04
suihkulokki.oO( if apple would release a resistive touchscreen device, all the fans would be amazed how accuratly you can draw pretty pictures in the paint app with the bundled pen )16:04
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, you know it. ;)16:04
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: never tried, why not be the first? ;)16:04
Stskeepshehe16:05
GeneralAntillesIt's too bad we didn't get a paint program for Fremantle stars.16:05
Stskeepspaintbrush 300016:05
wazdRST38h: we haven't seen maemo UI yet)16:05
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, worse comes to worst you could do a one-liner, anyway.16:05
GeneralAntillesflasher-3.0 -r ...; flasher-3.0 -k -R16:06
GeneralAntilless/;/&&/16:06
qwerty12_N800; works too16:07
GeneralAntillesJust in case the first one goes up in flames. ;)16:07
qwerty12_N800hehe16:07
Stskeepsfcking jaiku. i think i might make the builder bot get a web interface or something16:07
GAN800I bet you can do it in one command, though.16:07
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: yes. i'm still waiting for cnetworkmanager & powerlaunch16:08
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wazdok, gone for food16:08
* Stskeeps notes to himself apt cache for ubuntu on tmpfs is not feasible.16:09
Stskeepsand of course the mmap.patch from maemo no longer applies to the newest apt16:10
qwerty12_N800with ubifs, no need for it anymore I guess16:11
GeneralAntillesThink we can backport UBIFS to OMAP2 devices?16:11
Stskeepshopefully we can get newer kernels as well :P16:13
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lcukGeneralAntilles, understood totally about fat thumbing, thats why you make a pokable ui instead of a strokable one16:25
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thopiekarhi16:28
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roopeapple would combine resistive and capacitive screens, try to do the best of both worlds.16:30
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GeneralAntillesToo bad about the power and cost impact.16:30
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Phoodushow many layers do you want on top of your display? :-P16:32
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, steps to reproduce on #4127 are a little weak. ;)16:34
GeneralAntillesIs there a URL?16:34
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jeremiahGeneralAntilles: I will try to cut and paste some text16:35
GeneralAntillesThat'll work.16:35
jeremiahI am not sure about a URL.16:35
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GeneralAntillesMXR, maybe?16:35
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jeremiahIts just a simple thing, five points are numbered 1,2,3,3,4 instead of 1,2,3,4,516:35
jeremiahI just thought some one might like to know.16:36
GeneralAntillesThe person who'll actually fix it will probably understand, but, you know. ;)16:36
jeremiahYep, I will try to make it clearer. :)16:37
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: think jaiku relays messages again16:44
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: ok, thanks16:44
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Macerhave to go pick up my gf from thet airport in a little while16:48
Macerugh.... the airport :-\ it's almost as bad as going downtown16:48
Phoodushmm, how do you bring up the onscreen keyboard as Mer is doing its initial user setup stuff?16:48
Stskeepsclick text stuff16:49
PhoodusSometimes, I clicked in the text field and it came right up, but if the cursor is already there when the dialog pops up, nothing happens16:49
Stskeepstext field16:49
Stskeepsyeah.. just click twice16:49
Stskeepsit is a  bit awkward at times16:49
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PhoodusI've clicked a whole lot more than twice already ;)16:49
Phoodusstill nothing16:49
Macerhaha16:50
Stskeepsclick window and then text field?16:50
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timelE61igAn: i've almost gotten my stage box working16:50
Phoodusyep, tried it, clicking the window does not remove focus from the text field16:50
* timelE61i curses unreliable hw16:50
Phoodusnor does dragging the window nor clicking on the background16:50
StskeepsPhoodus: blah, sucks - tap ok and try again :P16:51
Macerhm16:51
Phoodus"try again" as in running the entire install process again? :-P16:51
Phoodusanyway, hitting cancel on the "type password again" let me move on.  Who knows what my password really is now ;)16:51
Stskeepshehe :P16:51
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Stskeepsyeah, i guess HIM is a bit wonky in first boot wizard16:52
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Phoodus"Oooh, screen rotation, let me try that!  Hey, why is my screen blank now?"16:52
StskeepsPhoodus: it's a trick to kick out to console ;)16:53
Stskeepsfeel free to track it down and fix it16:53
Stskeeps:P16:53
johnx|zaurusi let my friend play with mer for about a minute and he had already found that 'trick'16:53
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* Phoodus does a battery yank16:54
johnx|zaurushe didn't find the fix though. i'll get on him to send a patch :)16:54
Andrewfblackhow do I make a package install the sugguested items also16:54
Phoodusso what sort of idle battery life can I expect from the latest Mer?16:55
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PhoodusI'd seen mention that there was a wifi power issue but that's been fixed16:56
Stskeepsdunno, you tell us :P16:56
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Stskeepsprobably once we can show people the battery meter we can start saying if we have impact :P16:57
Stskeepsand powerlaunch active16:57
Stskeepsso people can lock their tablets like they use to16:58
RST38hLG is also launching S60 based phone16:58
* RST38h can almost see Ballmer breaking another chair16:58
lcukroope, too right they would, they have stroking as an integral part of their devices (even before iphone), they would not want to give it up16:58
StskeepsRST38h: windows mobile has just lost, really. only thing they have going for them is PIM and synchronization really :P16:58
* lcuk is in and out randomly so will just reply later ;)16:58
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johnx|zaurusStskeeps, winmo 6.5 looks ok for what it is16:59
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RST38hSts: Not so fast17:00
RST38hSts: WinMo has got HTC and LG as well17:00
RST38hIt does look like Xperia was enough for Sony to figure out why WinMo is not a good idea though =)17:01
johnxRST38h, it is worth noting they're not exclusive to winmo though17:01
RST38hjohnx: Who? HTC?17:01
johnxboth17:02
RST38hjohnx: HTC is pretty much WinMo exclusive17:02
RST38hjohnx: LG is not, but they don't have that many smartphones either17:02
PhoodusIs there any way to adjust the system font size in Mer?17:03
johnxyeah, HTC is winmo exclusive except for those android phones17:03
johnxand didn't they do designs for Palm?17:03
RST38hjohnx: Not sure about Palm thing, haven't heard about it. Android is more of an exception.17:03
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* RST38h looks at the source code he has to refactor and sighs heavily17:04
johnxso how many phones does it take to move from exception to pattern?17:04
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GeneralAntillesFour17:05
GeneralAntillesFour phones.17:05
johnxthank you GeneralAntilles for the hard and fast numbers17:05
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RST38hjohnx: At least 25% of the total17:06
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wazdback with food. killed mamonth17:06
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johnxwow...so...that's kind of an interesting definition of 'exclusive'17:06
RST38hwazd: that was an elephant who ran from a traveling circus and went native17:07
RST38hjohnx: you perfectly understand what I mean17:07
Macerhaha17:07
RST38hjohnx: HTC makes WinMo phones. Then Google asks them (and pays) to make an Android phone. They do.17:07
johnxthen they make a second17:07
MacerRST38h: android is awesome :)17:08
RST38hjohnx: And a second one, which they also do17:08
Macergo google!17:08
Macerhaha17:08
RST38hjohnx: Now, if they start making more models on their own, reducing the number of WinMo handsets, that would be a trend17:08
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RST38hjohnx: But so far, it is more like an exception, especially considering that Google asked them17:08
Macerisn't htc owned by via?17:08
RST38hMacer: is it? hmm17:08
johnxRST38h, sure, but there's grey area between 'exclusive' and 'trend'17:08
wazdhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/02/17/nvidias-tegra-in-the-flesh-booting-to-android-and-pumping-out/17:09
johnxjust sayin'...17:09
wazdwow17:09
Macerwhich is owned by an extremely rich tw family17:09
RST38hjohnx: I guess we can somehow define it in terms of percentages or the profit17:09
Macerwazd: android is great :)17:09
RST38hjohnx: but we are not editing wikipedia here, so it is not very important17:09
johnxor we can say that HTC used to be exclusively WinMo, but now they're not and a certain Steve from Redmond is probably pissed17:10
RST38hjohnx: He would be even more pissed if they just switched their Touch line to Android17:11
johnxwell, only time will tell17:11
RST38hSo far, I am sure it is more like an annoyance to Stevie17:11
johnxyeah, but he's kind of an ... uhm ... excitable guy17:12
Maceri don't really like winmo anyways17:12
johnxin other news: neat to see some of the nVidia's Tegra concept devices17:12
wazdMacer: well, tegra is great :)17:12
RST38htouch screen is not very responsive on the left side :)17:12
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Macerwazd: so w/ android on it.. it will be even greater17:12
Macerhaha17:12
Macerandroffice needs to come out already17:13
Maceri also need to check and see if there has been a fw update since i last updated17:13
* RST38h does not see what is so exciting about android, it is just another java platform17:13
Maceronce you root the g1 it is a beast17:13
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Phoodusis there a howto for enabling wireless networking in Mer?  Google's not helping much17:13
MacerRST38h: you have an android phone?17:13
wazdmy laptop actually lags a bit showing tegra showing 1080p video :D17:14
johnxPhoodus, what happens if you click the 'plug' icon in the status bar?17:14
Phoodusjohnx: argh, thanks.  I thought that was for wired, since it's the same icon as deblet, or the config's DSL icon17:14
RST38hMacer: no. should I?17:15
Maceryes.. it's good :)17:15
RST38hMacer: how is it better than an S60 phone?17:16
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Macerless dated interface like symbian17:16
wazdRST38h: It's android! How dare you!17:16
Macersymbian needs a new look17:16
RST38hMacer: I am used to S60 UI, it is ok with me17:16
Macerand better interface17:16
Maceri am too. i have an n95.. but it still sucks as an interface compared to android17:17
* RST38h can operate S60 with one hand. Is it possible to do with Android?17:17
Macerdepends on the phone17:17
GeneralAntillesTegra is shit.17:17
RST38hThere is only 1 Android phone on the market right now17:17
wazdAll current interfaces are outdated now17:17
GeneralAntillesLinux support == Android17:17
RST38hSo, is it possible to operate G1 with one hand?17:17
GeneralAntillesTegra is way behind the curve now, anyway.17:17
GeneralAntillesARM1117:17
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Macernot yet. ;) although probably17:17
Maceri'm not sure if they've made an onscreen touch keyboard17:18
RST38hGeneral: Tegra is Nvidia's vidoe hw + a random ARM core they slapped in17:18
Maceryou can other than typing i suppose17:18
RST38hGeneral: So, don't be too harsh on them17:18
johnxGeneralAntilles, eh. kinda. I wonder what kind of 3D support they have in Android17:18
Macerand even then.. if you're good.. then yes :)17:18
RST38hMacer: I can operate E70 with one hand even if I am bad17:18
RST38hMacer: it may look dull and dated but it does the job17:18
roopeThe thing with WH is that eventually their gains will come to just about any SW platform.17:18
Maceri suppose.. but all android would need is an onscreen touch kb17:19
GeneralAntillesI don't see the advantage to Tegra over OMAP.17:19
Macerand there you go... gets the job done :)17:19
Macerand looks better in the process17:19
RST38hGeneral: Probably in 3D features, but we have no details on these yet17:19
Macersymbian looks like it is straight out of 199017:19
johnxGeneralAntilles, then don't look at as Tegra vs OMAP3.  I think they're trying to compete a little more downmarket17:19
RST38hGeneral: because both ImageTec and Nvidia are so damn secretive17:19
GeneralAntillesI'd love to see TI shipping that ARM GPU on the OMAP417:19
wazdMacer: who cares how it looks)17:19
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lardmanany gstreamer gurus about?17:20
roopeTegra has a good price offering, as far as I can tell.17:20
Macerwazd: windows 3.1 got the job done17:20
RST38hMacer: I do not think Android will do my job done17:20
Macer:)17:20
wazdMacer: all blig-blig stuff goes away after a week17:20
GeneralAntillesjohnx, well, they're talking about MIDs.17:20
GeneralAntillesand they aint shipping no OMAP2s in MIDs. ;)17:20
wazdbling-bling I mean)17:20
RST38hMacer: touchscreen is inherently more difficult to operate, no native apps, etc17:20
RST38hGeneral: There are MIPS-based cheap MIDs17:20
johnxGeneralAntilles, well a certain company has been competing in the MID market with an OMAP2...17:20
GeneralAntillesjohnx, most of my negative reactions are in respond to inane fanboism.17:21
RST38hGeneral: However slow that Tegra may be, it will run circles around poor MIPS17:21
MacerRST38h: all i can say is i had an n95.. i loved it... now i have a g1 (and the n95 still) and i like my g1 more17:21
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yeah, in 2007, now they're moving on.17:21
wazdAsk any sane iPhone user, all excitement bout supersmooth scrolling going away very soon17:21
johnxGeneralAntilles, that's fair. It's hilarious on the pandora forums "Will the next Pandora have something super awesome like a tegra?!"17:21
roopeWhen Tegra finally comes, then there will be the Tegra2, or the Tigra, or whatever, and people will be like "oh this Tegra is crap, I want the Tigra".17:22
Macerif you aren't driving your car trying to txt with one hand ... and you are sitting down and actually using your phone... the g1 is better to use than the n9517:22
johnxI guess the Tegra's speed will depend on how well NV can get things shifted onto the GPU17:22
qwerty12_N800they  should be asking if  the "current" pandora will be shipped before the 2012 olympics17:22
lardmanqwerty12_N800: :)17:23
wazdqwerty12_N800: befor apocatypse in 2025)17:23
johnxqwerty12_N800, probably just shipped before an N900 announcement :>17:23
qwerty12_N800hehe17:23
lardmanwazd: I think opening the box containing it will cause the apocalypse17:24
StsN802'we invested all your money in n900s so we can bathe in them17:24
GeneralAntillesStsN802, ha!17:24
johnxeh, I'll tell you how Maemo5 runs on it once I get mine :P17:25
lardmanjohnx: any more progress on shipping dates then?17:25
Phoodusme wishes that a clamshell with a more real keyboard like the Jornada 720 was still being made :-P17:25
johnxlardman, well, there's an update on the official blog17:25
GeneralAntillesStsN802, now we need to talk Nokia into a photo op. . . .17:25
lardmanPhoodus: yeah, Jornada + updates innards (or dare I say Psion 5 + updated innards! ;))17:25
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wazdPhoodus: sony p17:26
johnxlardman, not exactly great news, but at least things are solidifying into a real product17:26
GeneralAntillesjohnx, "You silly fuckers! You thought you were gonna get something for your money, didn't you? Ha ha!"17:26
GeneralAntilles?17:26
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lardmanjohnx: update about fiddling with key mat, sounds like waffle, something I understood had been done long ago, only to find out they'd not done it17:26
Phooduswazd: yeah, kinda big for a handheld/pocketable though17:26
wazd"Hello I'm the Pandora Creator, I'm writing you from the Carribeans" :)17:27
johnxGeneralAntilles, more like "everything's pretty much waiting on the final case, then we're good to go"17:27
lardmanjohnx: sorry am pretty cynical now, after all the rubbish excuses and the final straw - no CC17:27
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I'm out now anyway17:27
johnxlardman, it's been a bumpy ride for sure.17:27
Phoodusat least they seemed to be transparent about things after they knew what was going on17:27
johnxout of curiosity, has anyone else been part of a co-op or 'group buy' before?17:28
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wazdjohnx: btw, what does this mean? : Subalashii asaga akelu17:28
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johnxwazd, have any context for me?17:30
lardmanamazing, I emailed the council about potholes 30min ago and they have already responded to say they'll send someone to look at them17:30
lardmanwhat is the world coming to?!17:30
johnxlardman, the maemo.org council?17:30
wazdSubalashii asaga akelu17:30
wazdYoakega yobikakelu17:30
wazdKokorono izumiga wakidelu17:30
wazdYumeno yo17:30
wazdxD17:30
qwerty12_N800lardman: hah, try that in london...17:30
lardmanjohnx: no local council :)17:30
johnxwazd, was hoping for some clue in English :P17:30
johnxis this from a song?17:30
RST38hlardman: Where is it?17:31
wazdjohnx: yep17:31
johnxdo you have it in Japanese (instead of latin characters)?17:31
* RST38h feeds it to google17:31
wazdjohnx: maybe I can ggogle for translation)17:31
wazdjohnx: nope(17:31
RST38hNo doughnut17:32
johnxwazd, the part you gave me is something like 'the excellent north is open' (40% confidence in correctness)17:32
johnxs/is open/opens/ ... maybe?17:32
RST38hwazd: I have found it17:32
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RST38hwazd: a moment17:33
Phoodusit translates into "Your hair is on fire.  Eat some pie."17:33
wazdHere comes splendid morning17:33
dphil314exact translation:  Take off!  To the Great White North17:33
RST38hwazd: http://pohodar.com/preklady/FreddieMercury_Japonaise.htm17:33
wazdDawn is calling17:33
wazdhttp://www.queencollector.com/Lyrics/japon.htm17:33
wazd:) Thanks anyway)17:33
johnxheh17:34
johnxthat's kind of a high level translation on that page17:35
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Phoodusis there any real issue with giving myself half a gig of swap instead of limiting it to around the mem size?17:35
wazdjohnx: low-level is 0001010101 :)17:35
RST38hwazd: 0x55 is not a letter17:36
RST38hwait, not it is a capital letter =)17:36
wazdRST38h: goddamn! Nerd alert! xD17:36
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RST38hhehehe17:36
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* Phoodus is not familiar with 10-bit character encodings ;-P17:37
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RST38hdisregard leading zeros17:38
GeneralAntillesPhoodus, there's little point.17:38
GeneralAntillesBy the time you're swapping that much, the system is going to be slowed to zero.17:38
jeremiahPhoodus: There are conflicting views out there regarding what is ideal swap size. :)17:39
wazdI always wondered how processor defins where's the space in the symbol)17:39
wazdI mean in 010101 row017:39
wazddefines*17:39
GeneralAntillesWith slow ass flash, 1:1 to RAM is pushing it sometimes.17:39
johnxPhoodus, it won't hurt17:39
johnxit all depends on the workload17:39
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johnxif you run a lot of things that load huge amounts of data and don't use it it should be fine17:40
johnxwazd, ok, I was wrong on north, but literally 'excellent dawn opens'17:42
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* Phoodus 's n800 is thrashing doing the LXDE apt install17:43
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johnxahaha...and translate.google.com suggests that I "Open a beautiful morning" :)17:45
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wazdjohnx: oh)17:47
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lardmanRST38h: sorry for the delay, Bath, UK17:47
wazdjohnx: japaneese language is pretty complex :)17:48
johnxwazd, eh...it's just different really17:48
johnxspanish <-> english usually works pretty well with literal translation17:48
johnxbut Japanese <-> English can be done at a literal level (like I did) or a high level (translating the intent)17:49
* Stskeeps ponders idly on iTT with the university professor with professor farnsworth as avatar..17:50
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GeneralAntillesHehe17:52
Stskeepshmm, can someone grab the VMDK and verify the Enter fix works? my rdesktop might be a bit biased since i am rdesktopping from a Mer device..17:53
* johnx downloads17:53
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lardmanhmm, not sure about Google's tanslation of the Spanish te into English te (?!)17:56
johnxit can be a little rough :)17:58
Stskeepsqwerty12: is powerlunch in user/ btw?17:58
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qwerty12Stskeeps, yes, user/system17:59
herziqgil_afk: ping17:59
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qwerty12The mer2 version is a lot better but jaiku wont let me build it, so you're stuck with mer1 ;)17:59
RST38hlardman: unbelievabale, maybe city council is planning to fire the road maintenance company? =)17:59
lardmanRST38h: well my car suspension will be happy to not have huge potholes to drive over, let's hope that actually do something about it or I'll be out at 3 in the morning with some tarmacadam and a spade :)18:00
PradeeptkHi guys, is it possible to add an icon to the system tray in Fremantle, if yes what api should I use18:01
StskeepsPradeeptk: same as usual (afaik)18:01
Stskeepsbut we will know more in alpha and beta sdk18:01
lardmanwe'll know with the release of the alpha sdk18:01
lardmanor at least we'll know the api18:02
PradeeptkI tried GtkStatusIcon and no effect18:03
Stskeepsfremantle pre-alpha sdk is a bit weird testing applications in :P18:03
PradeeptkI agree18:03
Pradeeptkanyway thanks for your help guys18:04
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timelesshello world18:15
timelesswhen i vote for something18:15
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timelessit gives me a token18:15
timelessdoes the page tell me in which ellection i just voted?18:15
Phoodushow do you launch onboard in lxde?18:16
timelessis lxde part of maemo?18:16
* timeless sounds like a broken record18:16
Phoodusit's another window manager, on top of Mer18:16
Phoodusand I seem to be at a catch 22 in the install steps, needing to type in stuff to run the network setup, so that I can copy app icons over to enable onboard :-P18:17
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qwerty12ssh :>18:18
qwerty12Ah, to run the network setup >.<18:18
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timelesswrite a deb which does what you want18:19
timelessand then stick it on a mmc card18:19
timelessthen all you have to do is use filemanager/browser/appication manager to open it18:19
timelessjeremiah: where were we/ :)18:19
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, s/Maemo Extras/Extras/g18:22
StsN800wanted to make sure it isn't Mer Extras18:23
GeneralAntillesmaemo.org Extras then18:23
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Stskeepsk, will fix when done watching House?18:24
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Stskeeps-?18:24
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, meh, just informing you for the future. ;)18:24
lfelipeis valerio here on irc ?18:25
* GeneralAntilles kicks the Community Highlights out the door.18:25
johnxGeneralAntilles, so what is the 'Extras' policy on armv5te compatiblity?18:25
lfelipe(don't know if he uses irc, or his nick if he does)18:25
qwerty12lfelipe, VDVsx?18:25
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VDVsxqwerty12, I'm here18:26
qwerty12VDVsx, I think lfelipe wants you (at least I think you are the only Valerio here :))18:27
VDVsxqwerty12, yup,thanks18:27
lfelipeqwerty12: talking to him already, thanks :)18:27
qwerty12:)18:27
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, is there one? ;)18:28
GeneralAntillesjohnx, anyway, it sounds like a good opportunity to figure it out.18:29
johnxGeneralAntilles, well, apps targetted at chinook/diablo OS2008 extras could expect an armv6 and a vfp. apps targeted at being run in Mer should run on an armv5te w/o vfp18:29
qwerty12johnx, it's up to the packager/developer, I use "ifneq (,$(findstring vfp,$(DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS)))\nCFLAGS += -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -mcpu=arm1136jf-s -mtune=arm1136jf-s \nendif" in my extras packages. I'm pretty sure that those packages won't run on a 77018:29
johnxor a zaurus or a pocketloox18:29
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qwerty12But if I'm being honest, when I upload to Extras, I'm thinking about a N8x0 running diablo/chinook - not a 770 using a hackers edition or Mer18:30
Jaffa"armel" isn't really specific enough18:31
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johnxyeah. ubuntu and debian already target different CPUs and call the packages 'armel'18:32
JaffaAnd, as a dev, I'd want to upload a single package and have the auto-builder deal with the processor flags (unless I know they cause problems)18:32
StsN800maybe expecting direct usage of extras binary packages18:33
StsN800is18:33
StsN800a bit too much18:34
JaffaStsN800: I think it should be a primary goal for N8x0 hardware; or some solution to the problem found18:35
JaffaMaybe an auto-rebuilder :)18:35
johnxhmm...as a fallback for packages that won't be/can't be rebuilt it makes sense18:35
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johnxJaffa, as for uploading a single source package I think that is definitely an achievable goal18:36
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StsN800or trying to grab all extras packages and build them18:37
johnxI've also been looking at that a little bit18:37
StsN800and make a % of compatibility18:38
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johnxanyways, I should make xfbdev work right on the zaurus so there's more of a purpose to having good armv5te support :)18:39
StsN800hehe18:42
johnxenter works just fine18:43
johnxI notice enter stopped working on my zaurus though if I killed h-i-m18:43
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Phoodusman, there are a lot of issues with onboard18:44
Phoodusany other onscreen keyboards to try?18:44
johnxmatchbox-keyboard, and xvkb (I think) come to mind18:45
Phoodusk, I'll give them a try18:45
johnxbut this is one of the bigger reasons I threw in the towel on my hacked up version of debian18:45
StsN800johnx,  if you could answer to ta-t3 then about enter18:45
Phoodusthe weird thing is that the Enter key doesn't work in onboard.  Kind of makes it useless :-P18:45
johnxStsN800, will do18:46
StsN800Phoodus, remove HIM plugin from gtk18:46
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PhoodusStsN800: how?18:47
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StsN800/etc/gtksomething/something.immodules18:50
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johnxmmm...bluetooth over wifi looks hot18:55
Stskeepsbluetooth over wifi? ..18:57
johnxtechnically 'bluetooth alternate mac/phy'18:57
johnxthe bluetooth stack keeps a list of alternate systems for bulk transfer and then the two devices use bt to handshake and agree on the transfer system, and wifi for bulk data18:58
johnxs/systems/transports18:58
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Stskeepsah18:59
* Stskeeps installs powerlaunch18:59
johnxhttp://i.gizmodo.com/5154863/bluetooth-over-wi+fi-zoomtastic-speed-shocks-our-pants-off19:00
qwerty12Stskeeps, install the mer2 version when jaiku fucking lets me write "build powerlaunch" >.<19:00
Stskeepsheh19:01
Stskeeps"Now press F0 15"19:01
qwerty12That's why I did a workaround in mer2 :)19:02
qwerty12johnx, may I give you a midori patch that gives midori proper keybindings (fullscreen, zoom and back) for N800 only if it is building for armel19:04
qwerty12*?19:04
johnxqwerty12, yeah. I'll do a new build and enable some other stuff too19:05
qwerty12johnx, cool, http://pastebin.com/m5a93b83d19:05
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GeneralAntillesI'm a bit surprised Engadget's not covering OMAP4.19:24
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Phoodushmm, in desktop Ubuntu, there's an option for "Password dialogs as normal windows"19:49
Phooduswhich is what people use to get onscreen keyboard to work for GUI sudo password prompts19:49
qwerty12it's a gconf option19:49
PhoodusI just looked through my gconf dump and didn't see it...19:50
qwerty12I remember toggling it in deblet somewhere...19:50
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Phoodusfound it: /apps/gksu/disable-grab19:54
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Phooduswhy am I getting the masochistic impulse to install Eclipse?19:58
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johnxwhy does Ballmer look like a sociopath in every photo he's in?20:00
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GeneralAntilles'cause he is?20:02
johnxbut...you think someone would coach him on how to look sane for press shots20:02
johnxhttp://i.gizmodo.com/5154335/lg-signed-up-to-make-50thats-fiftywindows-mobile-phones20:02
johnxlike "if they pull out cameras: hide your face with your hands"20:03
GeneralAntilles"You have soft hands"20:03
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johnxthat LG guy looks vaguely terrified20:04
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GeneralAntilles"We're shipping your shitty OS. Please don't kill me."20:04
johnxmore like "sweet jesus...where did I go wrong to end up in this situation?"20:05
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ShadowJKWhen they say 50, I hope they don't mean 50 models20:09
ShadowJKwhy do they need to have so many models..20:09
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johnxshotgun approach20:09
lcukso they can put a different version of windows 720:09
lcukon each model20:09
johnxkeep shooting and eventually you'll hit ... something? maybe a tree? maybe your hunting partner?20:10
* lcuk dies in the corner from shivers and coughing20:10
johnxoh noes!20:10
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johnxapply bacon liberally!20:10
johnxlcuk, is mrs. lcuk taking good care of you?20:11
johnxha! might have the tslib stuff tracked down20:11
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lcukmrs lcuk took care of me at first20:14
lcuknow she is starting to get it herself20:14
johnxeep20:14
lcuki thought i was done20:14
johnxalways happens :/20:14
lcukbut this morning all the green stuff had hardened into some sort of alien cement20:14
* lcuk was very late for work and spent the day being v poorly20:16
* lcuk is in bed now20:16
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lcukcyas later20:16
johnxlater lcuk20:16
johnxhang in there20:16
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neostriderhey folks20:23
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luke-jrN810 just arrived21:02
luke-jrmissing the Get started guide and Safety, warranty and other product information booklet21:03
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luke-jrworth insisting he ship me, or useless?21:03
wazdluke-jr: grats :)21:04
wazdWell, warranty is worth I think, if it's still active21:05
wazdall documentation is duplicated on the device in .pdf format21:05
luke-jrwow21:07
luke-jrthe kb lights up21:07
wazdluke-jr: sure)21:07
luke-jrthink I should do a fresh flash?21:07
luke-jrwtf, how do I get to a cmd line? :/21:08
qwerty12_merX terminal in the menu...21:09
luke-jrah, scroll21:09
luke-jrbest way to do a complete backup?21:09
luke-jrwtf, no tab key ☹21:10
ShadowJKyes21:10
ShadowJKalso no | key :)21:11
luke-jr:/21:11
luke-jrwhat's def pass?21:11
ShadowJKThere isn't one21:11
luke-jrsudo wants one :/21:11
Stskeepsgrab rootsh from extras21:11
qwerty12_merinstall sudser for sudo21:12
luke-jrI don't want to modify ANYTHING until I backup21:12
ShadowJKby default you can't gain root21:12
luke-jr-.-21:12
qwerty12_merGood luck getting root then :rolleyes:21:12
Stskeepsluke-jr: if you didn't install anything, the contents is == the firmware images you can dl21:12
luke-jrwhat of this Backup/Restore applet?21:13
luke-jrStskeeps: it's used ;)21:13
Stskeepsah21:13
Stskeepsthen just use backup/restore i guess21:13
Stskeepsstill though, the first thing you ought to do is flash it to latest release :P21:13
luke-jrhmm21:13
luke-jrno memory card..21:14
Stskeepsn810?21:14
Stskeepsit should have an internal one21:14
RST38hmoo all21:14
luke-jrI want to back that up too21:14
ShadowJKthe internal 2 gig "memory card" isn't touched by reflashing the tablet, afaik21:14
Stskeepsconnect device to usb, so21:14
Stskeepsthen you can copy the fs21:15
luke-jro rly?21:15
luke-jrwtf, non-standard USB? :/21:15
ShadowJKI hope the cable wasn't left out too21:16
johnxmicro USB is standard21:16
luke-jrjohnx: I have a standard USB cable with the device end almost the same size21:16
luke-jrwhy the heck are there two standards on the same size?21:17
johnxmicro is smaller than mini21:17
luke-jrthe one I'm referring to is les than a mm diff21:17
johnxok21:18
luke-jrso how do I install this sudo thing21:18
johnxreally, just get rootsh from extras21:18
johnx~extras21:18
infobotit has been said that extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras21:18
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johnxthen type: root21:19
TenkawaMaemo got a netbook useable port yet?21:19
Tenkawaspecificly the aspire one21:19
StskeepsTenkawa: you might want to look at Mer21:19
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Stskeepsi am running Mer, right now, on a VIA C3 laptop, so :P21:20
Stskeeps~mer21:20
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer21:20
TenkawaStskeeps: reading21:20
Tenkawathanks21:20
TenkawaI really like maemo on my nokia n80021:20
Tenkawawireless drivers are my concern21:21
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Tenkawathanks for the info21:21
Tenkawabbl21:21
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Davidehi does anyone know why mplayer processes do not terminate in the terminal?21:22
Davidewhen playing a wav file?21:22
luke-jrso on USB, sdc is the internal flash?21:22
luke-jrany access to the ROM-style flash?21:22
qwerty12_merssh21:22
luke-jrand how did I just mount that FAT partition if the tablet is using it? :/21:23
Stskeepsmagic21:23
GeneralAntilles!!!21:23
Davideanyone use Xchat successfully?21:24
johnxluke-jr, the tablet probably isn't using it now :)21:24
johnxDavide, yup. I'm a big fan of Xchat :)21:24
Davidehey omg maybe you can help me I'm desperate LOL21:24
Davideare you able to use sounds?21:25
Davidesound alerts?21:25
johnxsorry. I don't use sound alerts for my chat/irc stuff. first thing I turn off/disable even on the desktop :(21:26
Davideoh21:26
Davide:(21:26
DavideI cant get that feature to work.21:26
* qwerty12_mer had them working using an mp3 enabled 'play' from sox but was in a past reflash... 21:27
DavideI tried using "external player" and using mplayer21:27
Davidebut mplayer starts a process with each sound, and it never terminates21:27
Davideand it uses up all the cpu21:27
DavideI was wondering how to get xchat to look at the standard media player21:28
Davidewhat would be the path for the standard media player that I would put in there?21:28
luke-jr./Video/Anna Abreu - End of Love.avi <-- standard on N810?21:29
qwerty12_mernope21:30
johnxdumpster diving :)21:30
Davidedoesnt it need the path to the player?21:30
luke-jrguess I get special extras21:30
bensonluke-jr: It came on mine...21:31
Davidefor example for mplayer I put: /usr/bin/mplayer21:31
luke-jro21:31
bensonI axed it.21:31
johnxDavide, I don't think he was answering your question21:31
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Davideoh ok21:31
Davidesorry I'm so self centered :D21:31
bensonStupid videos are even less useful than user manuals in Russian to me.21:31
johnxno worries :)21:31
Davidebut anyhow anyone have any idea?21:32
johnxDavide, is sox available for os2008?21:32
Davideis it possible to control the Standard Media Player from another program?21:32
Davideidk21:32
Davidenot in the repositories21:32
Davidenot the regular maemo repositories at least21:32
Davidewhere would I look for it?21:32
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johnxhuh...I see it here21:33
johnxlet's see what repo it is21:33
Davideoh?21:33
Davidelet me check21:33
Davideits called sox21:33
Davidejust like that?21:33
johnxyup21:33
Davidenope21:34
Davidewait21:34
Davideare you in red pill mode?21:34
johnxI used apt-get21:34
wazdWoo, I got an idea!21:34
Davideremind me how that command works? sorry I'm not linux savvy!21:34
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johnxapt-cache policy sox21:35
Davidedo I have to be in root?21:35
johnxyup21:35
johnxso first type: root21:35
johnxthen just try apt-get install sox21:35
johnxyup. it's in extras21:35
Davidecould not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock etc...21:36
johnxyou have application manager running :)21:36
Davideoh haha yes21:36
johnxtwo package managers running at the same time would be 'not cool'21:37
luke-jrhow do I get ssh? :/21:37
johnxit's called openssh-server21:37
johnxit's in extras21:37
DavideWarning: the following packages cannot be authenticated!21:37
Davidesox21:37
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DavideInstall without verification?21:37
Davideyes?21:37
johnxDavide, that's ok. hit y21:37
Davideunpaking21:38
Davidesweet21:38
Davideso why does it not find it through the app manager?21:38
Stskeepsbecause packages that are not in user/ may hurt and cut users..21:38
Stskeeps:P21:38
johnxwell there's like a dozen low-level 'not really end-user friendly' packages for every friendly GUI package21:38
Davideoh21:39
* Stskeeps personally believes in darwinism when it comes to packages choice, but so it goes.21:39
Davideman I gotta hang out with you guys more!21:39
luke-jrhm21:39
luke-jrmy battery monitor icon disappeared :/21:39
timelessgan: could you get someone to fix bug 4129 ?21:39
johnxluke-jr, did you run out of space while installing something?21:39
luke-jrjohnx: I hope not?21:40
Davideok so how do Imake it look at sox?21:40
luke-jropenssh install is hanging tho21:40
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Davideor make xchat use sox?21:40
luke-jrDavide: sox is illegal21:40
Stskeepsluke-jr: it generates dsa and rsa keys21:40
Stskeepsit takes time21:40
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johnxluke-jr, what?21:40
Davidehuh?21:40
luke-jrdon't believe me, go read the licenses ;)21:40
johnxDavide, same way as using mplayer: sox /media/mmc2/my-file.wav21:40
luke-jrredistribution of sox is not permitted as a whole21:40
GeneralAntillestimeless, I already voted, so I can't confirm but doesn't the "Voting requirements for future Maemo Community Council elections" line tell you what you're voting in?21:41
RST38hluke: why?21:41
luke-jrin particular, gsm support (not optional) included is not legally copyable21:41
luke-jrthere is no license granted to copy it21:41
RST38hah shit21:41
Davideso it cannot be shared?21:42
Davide:{21:42
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GeneralAntillesluke-jr, since you've got such a thing for license pedantry, try not to throw around the term "illegal" too much.21:42
luke-jrnot legally unless you strip gsm out21:42
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, I'm not sure you totally understand the meaning.21:43
luke-jrerr21:43
* johnx sighs21:43
luke-jrcan I get the terminal autocomplete to NOT show my SSH password? :/21:43
johnxDavide, don't worry about it too much21:43
Stskeepsyou have terminal autocomplete? :P21:43
Stskeepsluke-jr: tap and hold, remove21:44
luke-jrit was on already ;p21:44
johnxluke-jr, they fixed it in the new version of the terminal that you don't want to upgrade to21:44
bensonluke-jr: newer version...21:44
luke-jrugh21:44
luke-jrZaurus kb was so much better ☹21:44
GeneralAntillesbenson++21:44
johnxyeah, but sharp hates us more than nokia hates us21:44
luke-jrhow do I press Home?21:44
Stskeepsthe swap button21:45
johnxO_o21:45
luke-jrwtf?21:45
Stskeepsor whatever the icon is on n81021:45
johnxluke-jr, do you have an n810 or n800?21:45
* Stskeeps owns a n800 but would also love a n810 donation. :P21:45
bensonluke-jr: upper button on the left edge21:45
johnxn810 = two boxes left of the screen, n800 = picture of a house21:45
luke-jrthat opens some menu21:45
luke-jrjohnx: 81021:45
RST38hHeh, looks like Nokia released TWO similar phones with qwerty: E75 *and* XpressMusic 573021:45
RST38hWhy would they do it?21:46
johnxRST38h, the mysteries of marketing21:46
Davidewell instead of playing it gives me a hge list like a help file21:46
johnxluke-jr, yes, it opens the app switching menu21:46
bensonRST38h: saves development costs over two different phones.21:46
Davidewhat would I type to make it just play the file21:47
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luke-jrjohnx: but I want to press Home…21:47
johnxDavide, where is your file and exactly what did you type? also: remember that it's case SenSitiVe :)21:47
luke-jrthe key21:47
luke-jrmtdblock0 contains the others, right?21:47
DavideI typed:  sox /media/mmc1/xchat/help01.wav21:47
bensonDavide: play is the version of sox that goes to output.21:48
Davideso I type play /media/mmc1/xchat/help01.wav21:48
Davide?21:48
bensonYes21:48
Davideoh21:48
johnxDavide, ah. sorry about that. been years since I used sox :(21:49
RST38hbenson: but it is essentially the same phone, even mechanically21:49
benson(If you don't have play, sox can do it, but you need some options to tell it about the output.)21:49
RST38hjohnx: Ah, don't tell me they are going to try "software differentiation" again :)21:49
bensonRST38h: sure, saves _lots_ of development costs.21:49
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johnxRST38h, meh. just marketing differentiation: a new coat of paint, different posters in bus stops and a different background image :)21:50
Davidehey, just wanna say I love you guys!21:50
Davidethank you so much21:50
Davideyou just made my day!21:50
johnxDavide, glad it's working for you :)21:50
Davideit works!21:51
Davide:D21:51
johnxso when we message you on IRC your tablet screams 'help!'? :P21:51
Davidehaha21:51
Davidealmost!21:51
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luke-jrany way to get a full internal-MTD-flash backup?21:52
Davidehey let me ask you this is there a way to make xchat respond to a trigger for example a certain string?21:52
johnxluke-jr, mtdutils21:52
Stskeepsluke-jr: kinda complicated topic really21:52
luke-jrjohnx: you might be familiar with Zaurus NAND backups?21:52
luke-jrthat's kinda what I want ;)21:52
johnxluke-jr, I never used them21:52
Davideand respond with a sound? whenever a string is detected?21:52
PhoodusI think flasher does that, look at the help21:52
qwerty12_N800luke-jr: if you have a long while... set up sd card booting first21:52
Stskeepsluke-jr: how come you want to backup it fully anyway?21:53
johnxluke-jr, why are you so interested in doing a NAND backup? Nokia distributes the whole thing on their website...21:53
luke-jrStskeeps: so if I ever want to, I can restore it to exactly how I got it21:53
Stskeepsluke-jr: you can reverse it to factory settings by the firmware flashing, really :P21:54
johnxyou want to keep the previous owner's files? :D21:54
luke-jrfactory firmware != used firmware21:54
luke-jryeah21:54
Stskeepsluke-jr: no, but it is the sanest to do in this instance21:54
Stskeepsand trust me, i have trashed my internal flash a lot :P21:54
luke-jrStskeeps: as you said, factory firmware is easy to restore21:54
luke-jrthough, what if I brick it?21:54
Stskeepsit is very difficult to brick it21:54
johnxthen it's bricked21:54
luke-jrno de-brick method? ;/21:55
Stskeepsand even if you did have the mtd parts, it would still be difficult to debrick21:55
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qwerty12_N800cold flashing21:55
GeneralAntillesJust don't overwrite NOLO.21:55
bensonAt the moment, nobody outside Nokia knows how to cold-flash it.21:55
GeneralAntillesIt's easy to not do.21:55
Stskeepsyeah, that's the rule21:55
luke-jr:O21:55
GeneralAntillesbenson, orly?21:55
johnxluke-jr, the definition of 'brick' is "not recoverable without hardware intervention"21:55
luke-jrthe Zaurus had a nice secret boot menu outside flash that could restore a NAND backup21:55
GeneralAntillesbenson, build yourself the appropriate serial cable and use the flasher tool. . . .21:55
qwerty12_N800benson: flasher can do. details of the cable are a little sketchy21:56
johnxluke-jr, if you can get to that menu your zaurus was not bricked21:56
luke-jrjohnx: upgraders never touch that menu21:56
Stskeepsluke-jr: basically if you brick initfs, kernel or rootfs, you can restore them21:56
bensonYeah, nobody knows the cable for cold-flashing, right? or does someone?21:56
Stskeepsluke-jr: very easy, and we do it constantly21:56
GeneralAntillesbenson, there are pinouts on a couple places on the net.21:56
johnxluke-jr, well, it's different on the n810, so don't interupt it when it flashes the lowest level bootloader21:56
GeneralAntillesFor instance: http://www.bu3sch.de/n810.php21:56
luke-jrhow do I know if I "got" extra maps?21:57
johnxwhat does that mean?21:57
bensonO.o Maybe I'll think about overclocking then. I thought nobody knew...21:57
Stskeepsluke-jr: they'd be on the internal MMC21:57
luke-jrthe  GPSstuff21:57
Stskeeps(afaik)21:57
RST38hluke: /media/mmc221:57
RST38hand go by filenames from there21:57
luke-jrthe FAT?21:57
luke-jrso installing the latest firmware shouldn't touch that?21:58
Stskeepsluke-jr: besides that, it is very bloody difficult to screw up a flash :P21:58
RST38hluke: What are you talking about?21:58
Stskeepsluke-jr: yes21:58
luke-jrmaps/license for the GPS app21:58
RST38hno, upgrading firmware will not screw your /media/mmc221:58
luke-jrok21:58
luke-jrhow long does the firmware flash take?21:58
Stskeeps~minute21:58
infobot[minute] 60 seconds.21:58
johnx:D21:58
johnxawesome macro21:58
RST38h~hour21:59
infobotwell, hour is 60 minutes or 3,600 seconds.21:59
luke-jr21:59
* johnx claps for infobot. bravo21:59
qwerty12_N800~66621:59
infoboti heard 666 is Steve Jobs.21:59
RST38hAhhahahaha21:59
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RST38h~77721:59
infobotsomebody said 777 was god (me, you and everything else) power over everything, or in unix it's presented in -rwxrwxrwx (full read/write/exec perms for everyone)21:59
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luke-jrso how long?21:59
RST38h~test21:59
infobotFailed!21:59
johnxluke-jr, a minute22:00
luke-jrok22:00
johnxroughly22:00
johnxhence ~minute22:00
bensonGeneralAntilles: That's just for srial console -- I'd got the impression cold-flashing needed a different cable?22:00
qwerty12_N800same port at least22:00
bensonMaybe I need to do some more research -- memory's fuzzy.22:00
GeneralAntillesbenson, no, they're one and the same.22:00
luke-jrwhere do I find it? :x22:01
* luke-jr stabs Google22:01
johnx~flasher22:01
infobotflasher is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher22:01
gnutonHi there22:01
johnxhi gnuton22:01
gnutonHei johnx:D22:01
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Stskeepsgnuton: odd question, did you have to do a lot of changes to Qt to make it build on Maemo, or was it just primarily the 'hildonization' part of Qt?22:02
Stskeepswe're considering to build it too so :P22:03
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: i see my comments did eventually go through >.< :/22:03
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: builder dying? :P22:04
qwerty12_N800probably will be :p22:04
gnutonStskeeps: There are some necessary configure flags and a little patch22:04
Stskeepsgnuton: alright22:04
* gnuton has a stomac-ache :(22:05
* Stskeeps has a math-related headache.22:05
gnutonStskeeps: :D22:06
* johnx freezes in his own apartment22:07
luke-jrany simple way to find out if I have WiMax edition?22:07
RST38hluke: bump at the back22:07
johnxyou don't22:07
Stskeepsis your tablet orange-y?22:07
RST38hjohnx: that is what laptops are for - they stay warm! =)22:08
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luke-jreh?22:08
RST38hluke: black faceplate, black keyboard, bump on the back22:08
luke-jr"Make sure the battery of your tablet is fully charged." -- really required?22:08
RST38hSorry to ask, but can't you simply google for n810 wimax edition and look at the image?22:08
RST38hmmm22:09
johnxluke-jr, you're the one worried about bricking it, but sure go ahead and chance it...22:09
Stskeepsluke-jr: yeah, its a good thing to do, but the flasher procedure doesn't start when it is in a bad state22:09
luke-jrwhat is Hacker Edition?22:09
RST38hyou do not need it.22:09
Stskeepsluke-jr: 770 related22:09
johnxhacked up os2007/8 for the 77022:09
luke-jro22:09
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bensonluke-jr: Once the USB connection for flashing is started, you can put it on the charger. Then the battery doesn't matter...22:11
johnxdoes it charge during flashing?22:11
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johnxI mean, sure it's plugged in, but ...22:11
luke-jrRX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin <-- what I want?22:11
johnxyes22:11
RST38hHow can we know what you want?22:12
johnxI know what he wants :)22:12
Stskeepsluke-jr: since your MAC matched to that firmware, then yes :P22:12
luke-jrerm22:13
bensonjohnx: I think so, but could be wrong. Never really thought about it...22:13
GeneralAntillesbenson, the argument there is that if the power goes out or the charger cable gets removed there might be trouble.22:14
luke-jrStskeeps: there were multiple options22:14
luke-jrwhere is the source for 'flasher'?22:14
johnxluke-jr, it's closed source22:14
Stskeepsluke-jr: closed source, but there is an open alternative, 0xFFFF22:14
GeneralAntillesbenson, I doubt it, personally, but better to not risk it considering the consequences if things do go bad. . . .22:14
johnxnokia proprietary22:14
luke-jrStskeeps: 0xFFFF?22:14
Stskeepsluke-jr: but you want to use the nokia one really22:14
johnxunless you care about freedom22:14
luke-jrI don't run proprietary software on my non-tablets22:14
Stskeepswell then you take the risk too :P22:15
Stskeepsfreedom to tinker = freedom to brick :)22:15
luke-jris there really a risk?22:15
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luke-jror just a disclaimer?22:15
johnxwell, there's no risk with the nokia flasher. it's been thoroughly tested22:16
Stskeepsyes, because 0xFFFF may not understand correctly the diablo FW's partition data22:16
Stskeeps(apologies to pancake if i am wrong)22:16
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* Stskeeps uses the nokia flasher because he cares about his tablet.22:17
GeneralAntillesThe flasher will likely be open source soon enough.22:18
* qwerty12_N800 uses it because it's official and couldn't give two shits if the source is there or not22:18
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luke-jrbackup is taking too long :x22:20
johnxwe told you22:20
johnxhere's the thread on 0xFFFF and diablo compatibility: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-December/053680.html22:20
luke-jrjohnx: i'm using tar22:21
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johnxyou're tar'ing up / ?22:22
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luke-jrjohnx: rather, I mount --bind each partition to /tmp/a and tar that22:28
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dougtin the 2007 sdk, is liblocation suppose to have a dependency (in pkg-config) to libhildon-1?22:30
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* Gnu[OFF] is away: Gone away for now22:35
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* gnuton is back.22:40
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luke-jrhow badly will I break things if I use all the RAM?22:49
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luke-jrI made a 13.5 TB tmpfs..22:49
GeneralAntilleslol, even Engadget is a Tegra fanboy now. . . .22:49
GeneralAntillesSo, what is it? Is it just NVIDIA or is it their advertising?22:50
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Stskeepsluke-jr: you will probably trigger OOM and watchdog..22:50
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luke-jrfun22:50
johnxGeneralAntilles, 1080p on an arm device is somewhat impressive...22:51
GeneralAntillesjohnx, if the only thing you're doing is video playback.22:51
GeneralAntillesI'm just wondering why Tegra is enjoying this weird position.22:51
GeneralAntillesWhen it hasn't even shipped.22:51
johnxGeneralAntilles, it gets not-very-technical users attention. doesn't make them fanbois...just easily impressed22:51
johnxit's a brand recognition thing22:51
johnxsame idea behind ferarri (sp?) laptops22:52
lcukjohnx, but 1080 on a modified graphics card isnt22:53
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johnxlcuk, you and I know that, yes :)22:54
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johnxanyways22:54
johnxreally time for sleep now22:54
johnx'night22:54
lcukgnite john, i just slept22:55
lcuk#/me has 5 minutes before it starts again22:55
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* gnuton is back.22:58
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wazdlcuk: It's your happy day today) Titles are back... sort of :)23:02
Stskeepsscrshots?23:02
wazdStskeeps: makin it right now23:03
lcukwazd, my happy day is when everyone gets the design that pleases them the most :)23:03
Stskeepswazd: design which could employ tricks like lcuks zooming could be interesting too23:03
lcuklike with your calculators, people have personal favorites - give them a quick selection of them and a way to change quickly and you just made many more people happy than just one specific fixed design23:04
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luke-jrwtf23:04
wazdThese are not *mine* calculators ))23:04
Stskeepsmm?23:04
luke-jrdoes Navicore really use the entire 2 GB card?23:04
lcukStskeeps, zooming not required for the top bars, but dynamic space allocation is :)23:05
wazdThese are TI calculators)23:05
Stskeepslcuk: entirely plausible23:05
lcukwazd, you know what i mean though23:05
Stskeepser, luke-jr23:05
luke-jr:/23:05
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Stskeeps(i dont own a n810. i would just copy off the files)23:05
luke-jrso I need to choose between GPS and storage? :/23:05
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Stskeepsor put it on an external card23:06
luke-jrI have no external cards :p23:06
Stskeepsand i dont either for the upcoming 770, so i buy :P23:06
lcukluke-jr, where are you23:06
luke-jrlcuk: USA23:06
tonyyarussoare there any text editors packaged for maemo that do syntax highlighting for python?  (I'd prefer Gedit if that's an option.)23:06
luke-jrNebraska23:06
lcukluke-jr, you might be able to choose a smaller subset of maps then23:07
lcukits prob got entire us on it23:07
lcukmy maps dont fill whole 2gb23:07
luke-jrCanada too23:07
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wazdFreedom is not good all the time23:09
wazdsometimes user don't know what to do23:09
lcukthen choose intenlligent defaults but allow some to go off piste if they desire23:10
lcukanyway goin back to bed23:10
* lcuk feels dreadful23:10
aquatixaww23:10
aquatixsleep well lcuk23:11
aquatixget some good rest23:11
Stskeepsanyone here with any htc devices?23:11
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: suggestion.. wiki page with 1-day things a nokia developer could do, suggestions23:14
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Stskeepslike, "forward port N800 sound driver to newest kernel API" or "document FIASCO format" or "lockable applets" or whatever23:15
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Stskeepsas part of a "maemo.org rent a nokia coder for a day once a month" thing23:16
Stskeeps / temporarily liberate23:17
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GeneralAntillesUI stuff isn't 1-day, unfortunately.23:17
Stskeepsyeah, was just an example23:17
GeneralAntillesIt's gotta be things that don't involve more than one department. ;)23:17
GeneralAntillesI doubt we'll get many takers, unfortunately.23:18
Stskeepsmm23:19
Stskeepsas in people able (and willing) internally to take on some of those23:19
GeneralAntillesRight, I don't think we're gonna get many of those. ;)23:20
Stskeepstrue true23:20
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Stskeepsmaybe it is more likely within kernel areas23:20
GeneralAntillesBe nice if Nokia implemented a %10 plan.23:20
Stskeepslike google's?23:20
GeneralAntillesYeah23:20
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Stskeepsnn23:21
Stskeepsmm23:21
StskeepsRTComm, - that is a framework, not UI, right_23:22
Stskeeps?23:22
wazdok, http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0902/a1/0a712e736a9f.png23:23
wazdNow I'll try to describe this crap)23:23
Stskeepsi presume this is the 480x640 one :)23:24
wazd"Tasks" row is made for narrow screens/portrait orientations23:24
wazdStskeeps: basicaly it can scale to any res23:24
wazdTaskswitcher now covers all space he has, but with "max-width of the element". In other words like desktop one23:25
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wazdSo it hides titles if it hasn't space for them23:26
RST38hwazd: I really like the b/w icons23:26
RST38hwazd: would be nice to have a theme like this for existing hildon =)23:26
wazd"task" word is a button itself - shows guess what23:26
RST38hbut the horizontal task bar really sucks =(23:27
Stskeepswazd: how would you be using widgets in this setting, btw?23:27
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RST38hwazd: Can I suggest something?23:27
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wazdStskeeps: It's Mer menu23:27
Stskeepswazd: ah, kinda like home screen23:27
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wazdRST38h: no you cant!11 xD23:27
RST38hgrrrhh23:27
wazdRST38h: sure23:28
RST38hwazd: Anyways, make task bar drop down and replace the Favorites/Apps/Settings/All strip23:28
wazdStskeeps: I even mde Mer slightly highlited :P23:28
Stskeepswazd: the X better not be like Windows Mobile  X, as in, it minimizing, not closing.. :P23:28
RST38hi.e. on the left, you can either have a column of these menu icons OR a column of running task icons23:28
wazdStskeeps: no, x acts as normal x :)23:29
RST38hthis may actually work because you do not need to switch between these two bars too often23:29
Stskeepswazd: so, how do i minimize? :>23:29
RST38honce you start the apps you need, you just switch between them23:29
Stskeepstask switcher?23:29
wazdStskeeps: just switch to the other task)23:29
Stskeepsk23:29
wazdAw I've forgot to add home icon(23:29
Stskeepswasn't that the mer logo?23:29
wazdMer logo launches mer menu :)23:30
Stskeepsah23:30
wazdSo23:30
Stskeepswazd: the task switcher item with the app, if tapped and it is already on the app, could show menu too maybe23:30
Stskeeps.. dunno23:30
Stskeepswazd: i like it, btw, just trying to make some kind of constructive statement :)23:31
wazdSpaces between icons are adjustable. Maybe it's good to make profiles such as "portrait" or "desktop"23:32
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wazdRST38h: hm\23:32
wazdRST38h: you mean that "two icons" taskbar or large in mermenu?23:33
wazdStskeeps: Could show what menu?)23:33
Stskeepswazd: application menu23:34
Stskeepsyou know, file, edit, etc23:34
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Stskeepswazd: so the screenshot with the application menu is what comes out when you press the mer logo, i guess_23:35
wazdStskeeps: Well, maybe, but we can't remove that dedicated button cause what will user do if the icon is hidden in overflow?)23:35
Stskeepsapplication menu = list of applications to launch23:35
wazdStskeeps: yep23:35
Stskeepsand you would have 'home' as a task too23:35
wazdStskeeps: I'm not sure where to place it23:36
Stskeepsis Tasks always visible?23:36
wazdStskeeps: kind of)23:36
Stskeepslike, even when applications are running23:36
Stskeepsalright23:36
wazdSo, tapping "tasks" will show you all aplications in a list (as maemo ones)23:38
RST38hwazd: no, I mean the horizontal task bar you have got is a bad idea23:38
RST38hwazd: it takes very valuable horizontal space and does not fit too many tasks anyway23:38
Stskeepswazd: maybe button bar with 'Tasks | Home' like on nokia phones? dunno23:38
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RST38hwazd: So, instead of that, remove the horizontal task bar, leave the "Tasks" button where it is, and make this button flip the left vertical bar between menu icons and task icons23:39
wazdAnd if you have multiple windows icon (like browser for example) and you click it - you will see list of windows23:40
wazdRST38h: too many clicks to switch I think23:40
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RST38hwazd: yes, but think of the usage23:41
wazdStskeeps: good idea23:41
RST38hwazd: You would normally start the apps you need, then switch between them23:41
RST38hwazd: Once you start needed apps, you no longer need the menu icons23:41
RST38hwazd: so, this "flip" does not happen too often in practice23:41
wazdRight now I'm wasting vertical space btw, not horizonal :)23:41
RST38hyou are, correct23:42
Stskeepswazd: for next layout try a homescreen, with phone related widgets and other useful ones. maybe the top bar and button bar sliding up when idle23:48
Stskeepsbutton=bottom23:48
Stskeepsand reactivated with activity23:48
wazdStskeeps: oh)23:49
Stskeepstry=maybe try;)23:49
wazdStskeeps: can I design blackjack and whores? xD23:49
Stskeepsyessir23:49
Stskeepsstripper widget23:49
wazdRST38h: I think in your case it's better to just get rid of that row and return to previous switcher variant (simple button in a left row, calling maemo-like list23:50
Stskeepsmultiple home screens sounds interesting too23:51
wazdRST38h: http://i063.radikal.ru/0902/71/6b05384cb13e.jpg23:51
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Stskeepsswitch from office widgets (rss feed) to bar widgets (stripper) to home widgets (slideshow of the wife and children23:52
RST38hwazd: Naah, the new one is really better23:52
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RST38hwazd: except for the awkward task switcher bar23:52
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RST38hwazd: the older one has the same overall task switcher problem (not enough space) but does not look as great23:53
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wazdRST38h: I meant just how taskswitcher icon will look in your case :)23:53
wazdRST38h: imagine new menu and old scheme)23:54
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bensontonyyarusso: you asked about editors... pygtkedit is a self-hosting text editor23:57

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