| dick-richardson | https://www.nokiausa.com/A4686323 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| genewitch | windows vista. i can boot into ubuntu | 00:00 |
| genewitch | i also have xp | 00:00 |
| dick-richardson | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 00:01 |
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| genewitch | hah! there's a stupid popup on the nokia site that's asking me how my visit was, and it's not going away | 00:02 |
| dick-richardson | I've used the ubuntu instructions on that 2nd link without any issues | 00:03 |
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| timeless | aww, they cut into the fight sequence as vader was slashing something | 00:04 |
| genewitch | dick-richardson: do i want the diablo release or non diablo release | 00:05 |
| timeless | diablo | 00:05 |
| genewitch | roger that | 00:05 |
| timeless | and if it isn't clear, what page are you looking at? | 00:05 |
| timeless | because it should be clear.. | 00:05 |
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| Phantom | ÐÒÏÛÕ ÓÏ×ÅÔÁ. ÉÍÅÅÔÓÑ Ó×ÅÖÉÊ nokia n810 Ó chinook ÎÁ ÂÏÒÔÕ. ÐÒÉ ÐÏÐÙÔËÅ ÕÓÔÁÎÏ×ÉÔØ ÐÁËÅÔÙ ÌÏÍÉÔÓÑ × ÒÅÐÙ ËÁË ÔÏ ÎÅ ÔÁË. ÐÙÔÁÅÔÓÑ ÚÁÐÏÌÕÞÉÔØ ÎÅÓÕÝÅÓÔ×ÕÀÝÉÅ ...binary-armel/Packages.diff/Index ×ÍÅÓÔÏ ...binary-armel/Packages . ËÕÄÁ ËÏÐÁÔØ? | 00:07 |
| timeless | English, please? | 00:07 |
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| Phantom | ok, just a moment | 00:07 |
| genewitch | timeless: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php | 00:07 |
| * timeless considers trying to load that page | 00:08 | |
| genewitch | that page. there's a windows utility, that might work. | 00:08 |
| genewitch | timeless: it's just a list of all the RX-34 .bin files | 00:08 |
| timeless | iirc that page has a /short/ message at the top | 00:08 |
| * timeless would have hoped the message would have been remotely helpful | 00:08 | |
| genewitch | tablets-dev.nokia.com restricted downloads | 00:08 |
| * timeless recalls some not particularly useful comments next to each release | 00:08 | |
| genewitch | The latest IT OS DIABLO release for Nokia N800 | 00:09 |
| genewitch | i got that one | 00:09 |
| timeless | wow, that page sucks | 00:10 |
| genewitch | i've seen worse on freshmeat | 00:11 |
| timeless | i try to stay out of the gutter | 00:11 |
| timeless | this is as close as i get | 00:11 |
| Phantom | I'm asking for an advice. There's a brand-new Nokia N810 PDA with preinstalled Chinook onboard. When I try to install additional packages, the PDA asks for files in repositories that does not exists. For example, it tries to access ...binary-armel/Packages.diff/Index instead of ...binary-armel/Packages . Where should I look for solution? | 00:11 |
| timeless | phantom: reflash w/ diablo | 00:11 |
| timeless | (backup if you have anything useful) | 00:11 |
| genewitch | "the software version in your device is already the latest" | 00:12 |
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| genewitch | that only took 1 minute... | 00:13 |
| Phantom | I know there are newer versions of the OS and I certainly install them as soon as I download them. But just at the present moment I would like to know is it possible to fix the package management system before I update the system. | 00:13 |
| timeless | it is | 00:14 |
| timeless | but it isn't worth it | 00:14 |
| genewitch | timeless: it's flashed, i should be able to apt-get what you said now? | 00:19 |
| timeless | you could | 00:19 |
| timeless | my thing is just a way to make it easier to ssh to root@localhost | 00:19 |
| timeless | if you don't plan to use the xterm much, there's little need | 00:20 |
| genewitch | i intend to use it a lot | 00:20 |
| genewitch | i got this for SSH | 00:20 |
| Phantom | There's another strange thing about the preinstalled OS. /etc/apt/sources.list is empty and package repositoy adresses are stored elsewhere. | 00:20 |
| timeless | in that case, yeah, but you need to use ssh-keygen and setup authorized_keys before you install it | 00:20 |
| timeless | phantom: apt supports /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ | 00:21 |
| Phantom | Yeah, I know, I just didn't have a moment to look every place :) | 00:21 |
| genewitch | how long should a full battery last while in use? | 00:23 |
| timeless | an empty battery will barely get your device booted :) | 00:23 |
| * timeless sighs | 00:23 | |
| genewitch | yeah, but i am deciding if i want to go buy a new battery | 00:24 |
| genewitch | i need to get another SD card in town anyhow | 00:24 |
| * timeless rotfl | 00:25 | |
| timeless | one of my favorite lines | 00:25 |
| timeless | <c3po> r2d2, you know better than to trust a strange computer | 00:25 |
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| Phantom | Is there a way to gain root access without installing anything? I read a wiki that suggests to install packages to gain root access, but I can't install them. | 00:29 |
| genewitch | i just had to reflash my n800 to get root | 00:29 |
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| timeless | phantom: application manager can isntall individual debs for you | 00:30 |
| timeless | err install | 00:30 |
| Phantom | Well, since I have nothing to reflash with, this will become a solution :) | 00:31 |
| timeless | you have no usb cable? | 00:31 |
| Phantom | I managed to install a couple of apps using dpkg | 00:31 |
| timeless | um | 00:31 |
| timeless | you shouldn't be able to run dpkg w/o being root | 00:31 |
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| Phantom | Oh, err, I'm sorry. I put it wrong way. | 00:32 |
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| Phantom | Dkpg did not work without root privileges as it should. .deb were succesfully installed by graphical package manager. | 00:33 |
| timeless | you should be able to grab debs for openssh-server and related items from the repository | 00:33 |
| timeless | or whichever thing you like | 00:34 |
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| Phantom | There's a problem. Some debs were installed seamlessly, but some other were reported to be incompatible despite the arch is armel etc... | 00:35 |
| Phantom | I downloaded all debs from maemo.org | 00:36 |
| timeless | you have 2007 or 2008? | 00:36 |
| Phantom | 2008 | 00:36 |
| timeless | "Message moved to Outbox waiting to be sent" | 00:37 |
| * timeless wonders what that means | 00:37 | |
| Phantom | I have the usb cable, I don't have the diablo :( | 00:39 |
| * lcuk misread that as "moved to outlook" and thought we had a new hidden feature | 00:39 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | feature? | 00:39 |
| timeless | "Select 1 message only" | 00:41 |
| * timeless sighs | 00:41 | |
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| Phantom | I checked /etc/apt/sourced.list.d/* and it looks correct. So... does anybody know why it tries to access "...Packages.diff/Index" instead of "...Packages" ? | 00:53 |
| timeless | http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:cE6QIfmalz4J:ftp.mgts.by/debian/dists/testing-proposed-updates/contrib/binary-i386/Packages.diff/+Packages.diff+Index&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2 | 00:54 |
| timeless | such files are real in some repos | 00:54 |
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| Stskeeps | evening | 00:57 |
| Phantom | Well... I see, but this is some other distro, it's usual debian, not maemo... Am I wrong ? | 00:57 |
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| timeless | maemo is a debian derivative | 00:59 |
| timeless | so errors you get or patterns you see are often the same | 00:59 |
| Stskeeps | diff is fine, it is a way to receive patches/diffs instead of whole packages | 01:00 |
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| Phantom | I mean that since there are no such files in repo it tries to install from, so there must be some workaround to make it install things from where they are. | 01:00 |
| timeless | just download the individual files :) | 01:01 |
| Phantom | But as I said before, it refuses to install some debs telling that they are incompatible while they were downloaded manually from the same repo. | 01:02 |
| timeless | you can read application manager's log from the menu | 01:03 |
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| Phantom | I checked the log and there are error lines I understand, but don't know how to deal with. (will try to post here in a few moments) | 01:07 |
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| Phantom | Here are the errors in package manager log: | 01:13 |
| Phantom | E: Encountered a section with no Package: header | 01:13 |
| Phantom | E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com_certified_dists_chinook_user_binary-armel_Packages | 01:13 |
| Phantom | E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. | 01:13 |
| * timeless wonders if tableteer stopped hosting chinook content | 01:15 | |
| * timeless cries | 01:18 | |
| timeless | anyone here use modest? | 01:18 |
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| Phantom | and later there are even more strange lines: | 01:18 |
| Phantom | apt-worker[1996]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib - g_strsplit_set: assertion `string != NULL' failed | 01:18 |
| Phantom | apt-worker[1996]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib - g_strsplit_set: assertion `string != NULL' failed | 01:18 |
| Phantom | W: GPG error: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com chinook Release: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 1 NODATA 2 | 01:18 |
| Phantom | W: GPG error: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com chinook Release: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 1 NODATA 2 | 01:18 |
| Phantom | E: Failed to fetch http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/dists/chinook/diablo/binary-armel/Packages.gz 404 Not Found | 01:18 |
| Phantom | E: Failed to fetch http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/non-certified/dists/chinook/diablo/binary-armel/Packages.gz 404 Not Found | 01:18 |
| Phantom | W: Couldn't stat source package list http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com chinook/diablo Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com_certified_dists_chinook_diablo_binary-armel_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory) | 01:18 |
| timeless | chinook/diablo? | 01:19 |
| Phantom | chinook | 01:19 |
| timeless | um, it says chinook/diablo | 01:19 |
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| Phantom | I fixed that. But .../chinook/... doesn't work anyway :( | 01:25 |
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| * Stskeeps starts 0.7 imagdr | 01:40 | |
| Stskeeps | imager | 01:40 |
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| * timeless reads http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/modest-1.0-2008.23/src/modest-tny-account-store.c?mark=643-652#623 | 02:04 | |
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| Phantom | Hmm I think I somehow broke the package management system... but cannot restore it without root access. | 02:12 |
| Phantom | I probably could fix things if that was a usual debian system, but maemo with restricted access is pain | 02:13 |
| Phantom | timeless: can you suggest something ? | 02:14 |
| timeless | well | 02:15 |
| timeless | i'd really suggest reflashing :) | 02:15 |
| timeless | but really | 02:15 |
| timeless | do you have a second computer of any kind | 02:15 |
| timeless | capture-root will let you setup a /root/.ssh/authorized_keys file based on /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys | 02:16 |
| timeless | you can drop in one from a normal computer (for which you have the key!) | 02:16 |
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| timeless | you could also just package a standalone shell which is suid | 02:16 |
| timeless | and then install it and use it to do whatever | 02:16 |
| timeless | -- assuming you haven't completely broken application manager | 02:17 |
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| Phantom | Yes, I have a notebook I currently working on. | 02:25 |
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| Phantom | I think it wrote something wrong in /var and now can't underst what it did. | 02:27 |
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| timeless | hey, in theory, modest is open source, right? | 02:48 |
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| GAN800 | timeless, yes. | 02:55 |
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| timeless | gan: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4061 | 03:06 |
| timeless | so | 03:06 |
| timeless | "Untranslated error occurred, get a better mail client" | 03:07 |
| timeless | ? :) | 03:07 |
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| * timeless ponders | 03:30 | |
| timeless | # GNU copyright 1997 to 1999 by Joey Hess. | 03:30 |
| timeless | # Copyright 2004-2006 Nokia | 03:30 |
| timeless | does that really make sense? | 03:30 |
| johnx | no | 03:31 |
| johnx | I was trying to figure out a way for that to make sense, but I really can't | 03:31 |
| johnx | what is a "GNU copyright"? | 03:35 |
| johnx | and how did it get transferred to Nokia? | 03:35 |
| johnx | Also: What was this software doing from 2000 to 2004? | 03:36 |
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| ana` | timeless: is that from a debian/rules file? sounds like the usual stuff that debhelper templates have | 03:41 |
| timeless | including the 'Nokia' bit? :) | 03:42 |
| timeless | johnx: all very good questions | 03:43 |
| timeless | ana`: sure, but see johnx's response | 03:43 |
| ana` | well, the nokia bit is surely a late addition, the Joey Hess' line sounds like somebody who used debhelper and left all the default stuff in the rules file | 03:44 |
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| mikem` | hi, i'm having trouble getting maemo mapper to download google maps. was wondering whether the google map repository url found here is still valid? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5209 | 04:07 |
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| mikem` | hm, nevermind, all I had to do was "Download Sample Repositories" and i'm set. (yep, i'm a maemo noob) | 04:11 |
| johnx | :) | 04:11 |
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| zakkm | Hey, Is Mer worth trying yet? | 04:49 |
| timeless | it works | 04:50 |
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| * timeless is glad to see there's a 'file format' menu in the mail app | 04:51 | |
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| Macer | wtf is the ahl? | 05:36 |
| Macer | like.. poor man's hockey? | 05:36 |
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| timeless | ~mer ? | 07:51 |
| timeless | ~mer | 07:51 |
| timeless | infobot mer? | 07:51 |
| infobot | somebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 07:52 |
| infobot | mer is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 07:52 |
| infobot | [mer] http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 07:52 |
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| Livingroom | hey anyone up? i need some help. specifically: | 08:42 |
| Livingroom | i did an apt-get upgrade on my n800. it broke; fortunately, i was booting from MMC; how can i go in and disable the lifeguard reset, using the internal flash installation? | 08:42 |
| timelE61i | lifeguard is controlled by fashertool | 08:45 |
| Livingroom | oh | 08:45 |
| Livingroom | well i get an endless boot loop. is it worth it to go get a livecd and try to disable lifeguard? or should i just reinstall? | 08:45 |
| timelE61i | Play dead is controlled by presence of power - remove battery for a while | 08:46 |
| Livingroom | remove the battery? ok | 08:46 |
| timelE61i | don't leave it alone if you disable lifeguard | 08:47 |
| Livingroom | what do you mean? | 08:47 |
| Livingroom | dont leave it alone | 08:47 |
| timelE61i | Light a fire in a forest | 08:48 |
| timelE61i | Do you walk away? | 08:48 |
| Livingroom | ... | 08:48 |
| Livingroom | but this is a pda, not a forest | 08:48 |
| Livingroom | it never even leaves my house mostly | 08:48 |
| timelE61i | if you'll excuse the metaphore, disabling life guard isn't supported | 08:50 |
| timelE61i | Perhaps it voids your warranty | 08:50 |
| Livingroom | if it lets the device boot, ill be happy | 08:50 |
| timelE61i | If it does and the device burns up | 08:50 |
| timelE61i | Because you were out... | 08:50 |
| Livingroom | well, what do you reccommend that i do to recover? | 08:51 |
| timelE61i | bAby sit it :) | 08:51 |
| Livingroom | what i mean is, how do i stop the bootloop? | 08:51 |
| timelE61i | pull the battery :) | 08:51 |
| timelE61i | What data is on there that you need | 08:52 |
| timelE61i | Can you mount it in a normal computer? | 08:52 |
| Livingroom | all i have is windows | 08:52 |
| Livingroom | i could try in a livecd, but linux isnt my first OS, so i wouldnt know how | 08:52 |
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| Livingroom | what if i just ran through the instructions for booting from MMC again, and just recopied over the good install? but if i apt-get upgrade again, it'll just break. argh | 08:53 |
| Livingroom | ordinarily i can boot safe from a lilo prompt and read the /var/log- but this device does not afford me this opportunity | 08:54 |
| timelE61i | did you install syslog? | 08:54 |
| timelE61i | Because normally it ain't there | 08:54 |
| Livingroom | i'm fairly certain i did | 08:55 |
| timelE61i | there are ext2/3 viewers for windows | 08:56 |
| timelE61i | Find a readonly one and read the log | 08:56 |
| Livingroom | i have a working partition on the device though, cant i just mount from there? | 08:56 |
| timelE61i | how uncomfortable is your win box | 08:57 |
| Livingroom | not uncomfortable at all? | 08:58 |
| timelE61i | Typicallyy i prefer real keyboards and big screens for log file reading | 08:58 |
| Livingroom | well, you see the thing is | 08:58 |
| Livingroom | i SSH into it and voila | 08:59 |
| Livingroom | big screen and keyboard. plus with my dual monitors i'm set | 08:59 |
| Livingroom | not to mention the BT keyboard | 08:59 |
| timelE61i | and busybox.... | 08:59 |
| timelE61i | YEck | 08:59 |
| * timelE61i goes af-phone | 08:59 | |
| timelE61i | either will work | 09:00 |
| timelE61i | Good luck | 09:00 |
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| Livingroom | anyone around? | 09:15 |
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| Livingroom | AHA | 09:22 |
| Livingroom | i got it mounted | 09:22 |
| Livingroom | now i have syslog information. | 09:23 |
| Livingroom | anyone wanna see? | 09:23 |
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| Livingroom | it seems to be choking on volume level | 09:35 |
| Livingroom | it says Jan 18 01:15:49 Nokia-N800-51-3 ke_recv[1005]: unmount_volumes:833: couldn't unmount /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_uuid_b8ccb54c_8792_4f62_8fd8_23a8acff23e6 | 09:36 |
| Livingroom | Jan 18 01:15:49 Nokia-N800-51-3 exiting on signal 15 | 09:36 |
| Livingroom | time's off too | 09:36 |
| Livingroom | any idea how to fix that? | 09:36 |
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| timelE61i | there's a date/Time applet in control panel | 09:45 |
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| Livingroom | where can i get the most up to date sources.list for my n800? | 10:15 |
| timelE61i | err | 10:19 |
| timelE61i | Diablo is the latest release | 10:19 |
| timelE61i | there aren't more than 2 main repos | 10:20 |
| timelE61i | Everything else is stuff you choose | 10:20 |
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| Livingroom | is there a list of repos for n800 or maemo compatable stuff? | 10:37 |
| Meiz_n810 | gronmayer.com/it | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | only ones you really want is the nokia repos, and | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | ~extras | 10:38 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | (and extras-devel) | 10:38 |
| Meiz_n810 | most of the repos in gronmayer.com/it are useless | 10:38 |
| Livingroom | hm | 10:38 |
| Livingroom | ok | 10:38 |
| Livingroom | mainly i'm trying to install this turbocharge debian package | 10:38 |
| Livingroom | and it wont go, because it says it cant be found. | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | it's in extras-devel i believe | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | or in extras | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | did you upgrade to diablo? | 10:39 |
| Livingroom | diablo? | 10:39 |
| Livingroom | how do i tell? | 10:39 |
| *** Gnut[OFF] is now known as gnuton | 10:40 | |
| Meiz_n810 | do you have the latest tablet firmware by nokia? | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | well, did you upgrade to latest firmware from tablets-dev.nokia.com | 10:40 |
| Livingroom | nope | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | you ought to :P | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | ~flashing | 10:41 |
| infobot | i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | makes things a lot easier | 10:41 |
| Livingroom | ok | 10:41 |
| Livingroom | will do | 10:41 |
| Livingroom | what will i lose? | 10:41 |
| Livingroom | i've already lost one partition. | 10:41 |
| Livingroom | had to reclone | 10:41 |
| Livingroom | can i clone diablo to mmc the same way as the other one? | 10:42 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 10:42 |
| * Stskeeps gets ready for a mer 0.6 release | 10:42 | |
| Livingroom | kksweet | 10:42 |
| Stskeeps | er, 0.7. | 10:43 |
| Livingroom | whats mer? | 10:43 |
| Stskeeps | ~mer | 10:44 |
| infobot | from memory, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 10:44 |
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| Livingroom | hmm | 10:45 |
| Livingroom | i'm guessing it's not yet stable | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | correct, but usable, but has quirks | 10:46 |
| Livingroom | hm | 10:46 |
| Livingroom | ill wait for stable | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 10:46 |
| Livingroom | i need mine for certain dedicated tasks; cant afford it to have quirks :) | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | or try out the VMDK release :) | 10:46 |
| glass | stable is just a name | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | for x86 / virtualbox / vmware | 10:46 |
| Livingroom | what started as an apt-get update ended up in a total reflash and reclone tonight | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, apt-get dist-upgrade is harmful on maemo | 10:47 |
| Livingroom | s/update/upgrade | 10:47 |
| Livingroom | but | 10:47 |
| Livingroom | my main thing is | 10:47 |
| Livingroom | i have to have A) dosbox B) the lcars theme that is so awesome and C) this new debian thing that looks f*cking wicked | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | heh, whereas mer is based on ubuntu and easy debian is useless in that instance :) | 10:49 |
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| Stskeeps | except for the wrappings within xephyr or the likes | 10:50 |
| Livingroom | hmm | 10:50 |
| Livingroom | holding the swap key is not putting me into that usb mode. what should i do? | 10:50 |
| Livingroom | oh | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | N800, N810? | 10:50 |
| Livingroom | you're supposed to turn it on | 10:50 |
| Livingroom | while holding the key. it didnt say that :P: | 10:51 |
| Livingroom | wow | 10:51 |
| Livingroom | i had firmware 2008se_2.2007.51-3 | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | se? :P | 10:51 |
| Livingroom | is that old? | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | what tablet type do you have? | 10:52 |
| Livingroom | i'm guessing that's ancient. | 10:52 |
| Livingroom | probably what it shipped with eh? | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, probably | 10:52 |
| Livingroom | the n800 | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | which are you upgrading to now? | 10:52 |
| Livingroom | the latest diablo | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | k | 10:52 |
| Livingroom | diablo_5.2008.43-7 | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | sounds right | 10:53 |
| Livingroom | should i be expecting things to be like ridiculously different? like faster etc? | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | possibly | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | chinook -> diablo has its benefits | 10:53 |
| Livingroom | hm | 10:53 |
| Livingroom | i anticipate great things! | 10:54 |
| Livingroom | will i lose my wep and BT settings? | 10:54 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, you probably would have wanted to run a backup before flashing | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | but anyway, this step is a benefit to you. | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | to get rid of old settings and such :P | 10:55 |
| Livingroom | i wont be restoring any backups | 10:56 |
| Livingroom | dont want old datas | 10:56 |
| Livingroom | cramping my style | 10:57 |
| * Stskeeps notes v0.7 vmdk works and gets on to testing next things | 10:57 | |
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| Livingroom | god | 10:57 |
| Livingroom | it feels fast | 10:57 |
| Livingroom | like | 10:57 |
| Livingroom | making the jump from 486-25 to 486 DX2/66 | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | that's unfair to the 400mhz processor in it ;) | 10:58 |
| Livingroom | hehe | 10:58 |
| Livingroom | it's an OMAP isnt it? | 10:58 |
| Livingroom | thats like | 10:58 |
| Livingroom | packard...bell... or something | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | eh. | 10:59 |
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| qwerty12 | texas instruments | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, what the kid wiz said | 10:59 |
| Livingroom | yeah | 10:59 |
| Livingroom | TI | 10:59 |
| Livingroom | TI-OMAP | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | Livingroom: it also beats the hell out of x86 in terms of power usage :P | 10:59 |
| Livingroom | the celeron of the ARM architecture | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not so sure anymore really | 10:59 |
| Livingroom | xscale beats them all, imo | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | .. | 10:59 |
| * Stskeeps gets out a baseball bat and bad experiences with alignment traps | 11:00 | |
| Livingroom | my dell axim x50 used to run ~1100mhz | 11:00 |
| qwerty12 | :(. My pocket pc was only overclockable to about 600mhz :/ | 11:00 |
| Livingroom | mine was a late model with the new xscales | 11:00 |
| Livingroom | could run it fairly stable at 1000 | 11:00 |
| Livingroom | 1100 was pushing it | 11:01 |
| Livingroom | of course i had to buy a 3300mah battery for it | 11:01 |
| Livingroom | to run it for more than like 15 minutes | 11:01 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 11:01 |
| mavhc | xscale was so good intel bought it and killed it, just in case | 11:01 |
| Livingroom | i hate them for that. | 11:02 |
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| mavhc | intel did try to kill x86 with ia64, but they weren't able to destroy the monster they had created | 11:02 |
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| Livingroom | i remember when there was an ipaq in every color, flavor, cpu, speed, screen type, dock size and usb speed. | 11:03 |
| Livingroom | and ipaq was the lamest name ever | 11:03 |
| Livingroom | next to maybe "ipod" | 11:04 |
| mavhc | I have an ipaq, won't turn on | 11:04 |
| Livingroom | but they sold by the kajillions | 11:04 |
| mavhc | flashes on for half a second, then turns off again | 11:04 |
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| Livingroom | hm | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | dead battery? | 11:04 |
| mavhc | don't think so, you have do so a weird hard reset thing for it to try to turn on at all | 11:05 |
| Livingroom | whats that cool control panel for maemo with the brightness and volume on the same screen | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | advanced backlight | 11:06 |
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| Livingroom | kk | 11:08 |
| Livingroom | i am LOLCATS of BORG. lower your shields and surrender your ships... | 11:08 |
| mavhc | I can has phaser? | 11:08 |
| Livingroom | lol | 11:11 |
| Livingroom | you'll never guess what i just did. | 11:11 |
| Livingroom | never in a million years | 11:11 |
| Livingroom | and if you did, i'd give you a billion dollars. | 11:11 |
| mavhc | sat on your cat? | 11:12 |
| Livingroom | nope | 11:12 |
| Livingroom | i just typed in the cheatkeys for commander keen 4 that my sister is emulating on her netbook with dosbox... so she can have GOD mode | 11:12 |
| mavhc | does the billion dollars rise with inflation over the million years? | 11:12 |
| Livingroom | lol@mavhc | 11:12 |
| Livingroom | crazy thing is | 11:13 |
| Livingroom | i remembered them | 11:13 |
| Livingroom | and it's been like... 20 years since i played that | 11:14 |
| Livingroom | ok so iv'e got diablo up | 11:14 |
| Livingroom | how do i add the extras repo? | 11:14 |
| qwerty12 | ~extras | 11:14 |
| infobot | [extras] http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 11:14 |
| mavhc | 7 things to get right, god mode is about 1 in 5, dosbox 1 in 5, netbook 1 in 5, sister 1 in 5, specific game 1 in 10000, and typing cheatkeys is what, 1 in a million? | 11:14 |
| mavhc | so 1 in 6250000000000 chance | 11:15 |
| Livingroom | we could narrow it down to "typed in the cheat keys for keen 4" | 11:15 |
| mavhc | so if I had 1 guess every 5 seconds I would have got it | 11:16 |
| Livingroom | in how long a time? | 11:16 |
| mavhc | 1 million years | 11:16 |
| Livingroom | hm | 11:17 |
| Livingroom | ok | 11:17 |
| mavhc | (1 million years) / 6 250 000 000 000 = 5.04910816 seconds | 11:17 |
| Livingroom | ah | 11:17 |
| Livingroom | well then | 11:17 |
| Livingroom | whats a billion dollars inflation adjusted for a million years from now at our current rate in the US? | 11:17 |
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| mavhc | let's say 2% inflation? 1 000 000 000 * (.98^1 000 000) = 0 | 11:18 |
| mavhc | got a more accurate calculator? | 11:19 |
| mavhc | after 1000 years it's $1.68 | 11:20 |
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| Livingroom | hm | 11:20 |
| Livingroom | is easy-deb-chroot worth it? | 11:20 |
| Livingroom | does it actually "boot" its own "OS" or is it just like an overlay? | 11:21 |
| qwerty12 | an "overlay" on top of maemo. If you want full, booting debian, you should install deblet | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | Livingroom: glorified chroot | 11:21 |
| wnd | mavhc, echo 'scale=1000000000000; 1000000000*(.98^1000000)' | bc | 11:22 |
| wnd | be warned it might take a while | 11:22 |
| wnd | s/a w/aw/ | 11:23 |
| infobot | wnd meant: be warned it might take awhile | 11:23 |
| Livingroom | holy crap | 11:23 |
| Livingroom | your channel does that? | 11:23 |
| mavhc | "a while" is better I think | 11:23 |
| Livingroom | s/your channel does that?/your channel is very cool. | 11:24 |
| Livingroom | hmm | 11:24 |
| qwerty12 | You forgot to end it with the / | 11:24 |
| Livingroom | s/your channel does that?/your channel is very cool./ | 11:24 |
| qwerty12 | and it only works on the last sentence you typed | 11:24 |
| Livingroom | lolz | 11:24 |
| mavhc | bit daft really, the human can parse much better | 11:24 |
| * Stskeeps curses his imager | 11:25 | |
| mavhc | if it was a client side script that actually editted the history, would be cool | 11:25 |
| Livingroom | brbbio | 11:25 |
| mavhc | I don't have a fast linux computer ATM, someone formatted it and put win2k3 on it | 11:26 |
| wnd | no wonder I never learned it: http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/awhile.html | 11:27 |
| Livingroom | geez already screwed up | 11:30 |
| Livingroom | went and installed a bunch of crap on internal. meant to clone first *SIGH* | 11:30 |
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| Stskeeps | morning Meizirkki | 11:31 |
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| Livingroom | hmm | 11:33 |
| Livingroom | enable R&D mode through the red pill method on diablo? | 11:33 |
| Meizirkki | morning Stskeeps | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | Livingroom: there's no good need for enabling R&D mode | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | just install rootsh | 11:33 |
| Livingroom | i'm guessing rootsh allows for su - root? | 11:34 |
| Macer | crank cracks me up | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | Livingroom: yeah, sudo gainroot or whatever, or just rootsh | 11:34 |
| Livingroom | k | 11:35 |
| Livingroom | also | 11:35 |
| Livingroom | sshd | 11:35 |
| Livingroom | for remote access | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | grab openssh-server from extras.. | 11:35 |
| Livingroom | got it | 11:36 |
| Livingroom | back in business LOL | 11:36 |
| Livingroom | openprojects...err. i mean freenode has always been my source of help. thank you guys so much just for exsisting | 11:37 |
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| * Stskeeps tests 0.7 snapshot | 11:39 | |
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| * Stskeeps notes that crash wasn't expected. | 11:40 | |
| Livingroom | apt-get install e2fsprogs | 11:40 |
| Livingroom | gives: | 11:40 |
| Livingroom | Package e2fsprogs is not available, but is referred to by another package. | 11:41 |
| Meizirkki | Enable extras-devel for that | 11:41 |
| Livingroom | o | 11:41 |
| Livingroom | it wasnt int he list | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | there's one on ~extras | 11:42 |
| Livingroom | ~extras | 11:42 |
| Macer | crank is a pretty funny moie | 11:42 |
| Macer | movie | 11:42 |
| infobot | i guess extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 11:42 |
| Macer | never saw it before | 11:42 |
| RST38h | Sts | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 11:42 |
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| RST38h | nothing, just saying hi | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | ah, morning :) | 11:43 |
| Livingroom | ah got it | 11:44 |
| Livingroom | thanks | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | ~curse ports.ubuntu.com | 11:44 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ports.ubuntu.com ! | 11:44 |
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| Livingroom | bah | 11:47 |
| Livingroom | is it mount -o /dev/mmcblk0p2 /opt ? | 11:48 |
| daperl | ~sleep | 11:48 |
| infobot | sleep is, like, overrated, and a poor substitute for caffeine. | 11:48 |
| Livingroom | also, apt-get isnt finding nano or pico. | 11:48 |
| daperl | ~zombie | 11:48 |
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| infobot | Library and server for developing networked apps/games.. URL: http://www.infa.abo.fi/~chakie/zombie/ | 11:48 |
| Meizirkki | Livingroom: enable diablo-tools repo for nano | 11:49 |
| Livingroom | AAAAUGH | 11:49 |
| Livingroom | so many sources | 11:49 |
| Meizirkki | :P | 11:49 |
| Livingroom | where is diablo-tools hidden | 11:49 |
| Livingroom | ~tools | 11:49 |
| infobot | hmm... tools is just because the tools are free doesn't mean that you get to completely ignore all the rules and guidelines | 11:49 |
| * Stskeeps is just looking forward to mer being stable so he uses it for everyday-work | 11:49 | |
| Livingroom | ~diablo-tools | 11:49 |
| Livingroom | mer looks ok but needs a new name. "Mer." is just kinda weird | 11:49 |
| Livingroom | it's like naming your investment bank "ING" | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | Livingroom: makes perfect sense really. sea, "more" in swedish, etc. | 11:50 |
| Meizirkki | Livingroom: search diablo tools from gronmayer.com/it | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | it's a new type of ecosystem :P | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | and trust me, after dealing with maemo for quite a while, stuff like Mer is a blessing :) | 11:51 |
| Livingroom | well | 11:51 |
| Meizirkki | "Mer" means noting in finninsh, but "Meri" means sea. :) | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:51 |
| Livingroom | as an original early adopter of the Sharp Zaurus Linux PDA... i can say that maemo is A GODDAMN BLESSING on the mobile linux community. | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | oh, we have Mer going on zaurus too. | 11:52 |
| Livingroom | people still use those? | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | seemingily | 11:53 |
| Livingroom | wow. | 11:53 |
| daperl | but i always use less, not more | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | i am a less fan too, but less is more featureful than less :P | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | than more | 11:54 |
| Livingroom | this describes my adventures tonight: http://xkcd.com/349/ | 11:54 |
| Livingroom | what started as an apt-get upgrade culminated in a reflash, an upgrade, two reclonings, and the reinstallation of all my apps. | 11:54 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:54 |
| *** mpk has joined #maemo | 11:55 | |
| Livingroom | apps... AND SOURCES! | 11:55 |
| daperl | ~passed out | 11:55 |
| * Stskeeps gives daperl some coffee | 11:56 | |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps: epiphany-gecko is stable, fast, it has adblocker and it doesn't eat as much memory as midori takes. Epiphany-gecko has a change to become my day-to-day browser once Mer has a bit better power management. If there would be finger scroll, could it be used as a Mer default browser? | 11:56 |
| Livingroom | what package contains the "locate" command? | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: possibly, right now we're not focusing on that part | 11:56 |
| Meizirkki | okay | 11:57 |
| Meizirkki | There's a mouse scroll, but it uses middle click :P | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:57 |
| * daperl spills scolding brew on crotch, now wide awake | 11:58 | |
| qwerty12 | Interesting method... | 11:59 |
| Livingroom | scolding brew? if my coffe talked to me, i'd stop drinking it | 11:59 |
| daperl | mcdonald's drive-through on-the-way-to-work method | 12:00 |
| daperl | did i mean scaulding? (sp.?) | 12:00 |
| Livingroom | scalding i think | 12:01 |
| daperl | thanks | 12:01 |
| RST38h | Livingroom: Now is a good time to switch back to Windows =) | 12:01 |
| daperl | throw it out the window | 12:01 |
| Livingroom | why's that? | 12:01 |
| RST38h | Living: reflash, upgrade, two reclonings, reinstallation of all apps | 12:02 |
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| Livingroom | oh lol | 12:02 |
| Livingroom | now i cant find my locate command AAAUGH | 12:02 |
| *** mpk has joined #maemo | 12:03 | |
| Livingroom | why cant i 'locate' or 'updatedb' ? | 12:03 |
| RST38h | Because your gadget is borked. | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | cos maemo is a embedded system | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:03 |
| qwerty12 | debfarm repo used to have mlocale package but debfarm seems to be down | 12:03 |
| qwerty12 | s/mlocale/mlocate/ | 12:03 |
| infobot | qwerty12 meant: debfarm repo used to have mlocate package but debfarm seems to be down | 12:03 |
| Livingroom | oh god i cant live without locate | 12:04 |
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| * Stskeeps watches imager go at it and hopes apt doesn't f*ck up again | 12:08 | |
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| Livingroom | hmm | 12:29 |
| Livingroom | i did the cloning and | 12:30 |
| Livingroom | it didnt give me a boot menu | 12:30 |
| Livingroom | what gives? | 12:30 |
| Livingroom | i skipped option 0 because i already had a partition...should i have done it anyway? | 12:30 |
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| daperl | if you don't have a small dos partition as your first you're asking for it | 12:32 |
| Livingroom | i do | 12:32 |
| Livingroom | i've done this before so the partition table was intact | 12:32 |
| daperl | gotcha | 12:33 |
| Livingroom | no lilo menu though | 12:33 |
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| Livingroom | damn | 12:34 |
| Livingroom | the clone was messed up | 12:34 |
| Livingroom | i mounted mmcblk02 on /opt and all i have is a lost+found | 12:34 |
| daperl | that's not good | 12:34 |
| daperl | you want quick and dirty? | 12:35 |
| Livingroom | what do you mean? | 12:35 |
| Livingroom | i'd love quick and dirty. cp -a / to /opt? | 12:35 |
| daperl | if you're in flash you have to to remount the flash root say to /floppy | 12:36 |
| Livingroom | supposedly thats what this shellscript is doing | 12:36 |
| daperl | well, if it failed let's try it manually | 12:37 |
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| daperl | that's how i always do it | 12:38 |
| Livingroom | i just dont understand why there's no bootmenu | 12:38 |
| daperl | look at /mnt/initfs, is there a bootmenu.sh there? | 12:38 |
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| Livingroom | there is not | 12:39 |
| daperl | you're initfs_flash failed | 12:39 |
| Livingroom | i'm just going by these steps here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631 | 12:40 |
| Livingroom | are there more i'm not aware of? | 12:40 |
| daperl | well, you seem pretty savvy, so you might want to take more control | 12:41 |
| Livingroom | OH SHI- | 12:41 |
| Livingroom | i missed step #6 | 12:41 |
| daperl | are you on it? | 12:42 |
| Livingroom | no, i'm past it now. but it's recoverable | 12:42 |
| Livingroom | step 6 does not seem critical to the whole op | 12:42 |
| daperl | i never use anything but the fanoush script | 12:43 |
| Livingroom | thats the one i forgot to use | 12:43 |
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| daperl | and i partition and copy root manually | 12:44 |
| Livingroom | yikes | 12:44 |
| Livingroom | i'll pass. | 12:44 |
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| daperl | don't pass, it's a one-liner | 12:45 |
| daperl | do you have the url to his site? | 12:45 |
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| Livingroom | http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#initfs ? | 12:46 |
| * daperl is getting url | 12:46 | |
| daperl | si | 12:46 |
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| daperl | l are you giving it a go? | 12:50 |
| daperl | s/l/Livingroom/ | 12:51 |
| infobot | daperl meant: Livingroom are you giving it a go? | 12:51 |
| Livingroom | yeah | 12:51 |
| Livingroom | flashing initfs now | 12:51 |
| Livingroom | used custom bootmenu.conf, gutwrench time | 12:51 |
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| daperl | do you want me stick around, 'cause i'm gonna pass out? | 12:54 |
| daperl | s/me/me to / | 12:55 |
| infobot | daperl meant: do you want me to stick around, 'cause i'm gonna pass out? | 12:55 |
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| Livingroom | hmm | 12:55 |
| Livingroom | something went wrong | 12:55 |
| Livingroom | you can pass out if you like | 12:55 |
| Livingroom | i just did something strange in bootmenu.conf is all | 12:55 |
| daperl | did you get the menu? | 12:56 |
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| daperl | and did you remember to copy over a root fs? | 12:57 |
| Livingroom | i do have the menu | 12:57 |
| Livingroom | dont know about that copy over a root FS thing, btu | 12:57 |
| Livingroom | *but | 12:57 |
| RST38h | hm | 12:57 |
| * RST38h wonders how many hours it will take Livingroom to sort things out =) | 12:57 | |
| Livingroom | hehe | 12:58 |
| Livingroom | the good news: McDonalds is now serving brekfast | 12:58 |
| daperl | order off your boot menu | 12:58 |
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| RST38h | daperl: You do not want him to crash and brick McDonalds, do you? | 13:00 |
| daperl | too funny | 13:02 |
| Livingroom | lol | 13:02 |
| Livingroom | i cant make it set a default boot item | 13:02 |
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| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: waiting for 0.7 images to build (i had fucked something up in the initial run i did last night), and if you have bw left enough i would love some testing | 13:05 |
| daperl | ~cal-tool | 13:05 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps: okay | 13:06 |
| lcuk | RST38h, did you want me last night | 13:06 |
| lcuk | mornin btw, and ello Stskeeps Meizirkki etc | 13:06 |
| Meizirkki | morning lcuk :) | 13:07 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: no, was just saying hi =) | 13:08 |
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| lcuk | furry muff :) | 13:08 |
| Livingroom | HURRAY | 13:08 |
| Livingroom | SUCCESSFUL BOOT OF IMMC2 AT 5:08AM 02/01/08! | 13:08 |
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| lcuk | whats goin down in mer town then - have we got a decent system now | 13:09 |
| daperl | cool, night night | 13:09 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: 0.7 coming out today, and yeah, it is more usable than 0.6 | 13:09 |
| Stskeeps | we have an xterm and such :P | 13:09 |
| lcuk | nice i saw jaffa has put h-i-m in, and something about the control panel - is that all modules? | 13:09 |
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| Stskeeps | hildon application manager yeah, and control panel with the status bar applet config | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not sure what API they have but it sure as hell could have been better.. :P | 13:11 |
| lcuk | its always a battle between desires and practicality | 13:11 |
| timeless | um | 13:11 |
| timeless | qwerty? | 13:11 |
| timeless | xchat blinks way too much | 13:11 |
| timeless | it's bad for my battery | 13:11 |
| timeless | it it needs my attention, it should use a task notification | 13:12 |
| timeless | not a blinking icon (two actually!) | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | two? on maemo it's only one, i think | 13:12 |
| timeless | nope,two | 13:12 |
| qwerty12 | That's the sort of thing that probably should be taken up with upstream | 13:12 |
| timeless | on in status bar | 13:12 |
| timeless | one in app list | 13:12 |
| qwerty12 | You can disable the status bar one | 13:12 |
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| timeless | do me a favor and file it? | 13:13 |
| timeless | i can file it and have andre__ refile if you ask | 13:13 |
| timeless | but i'd rather not | 13:13 |
| lcuk | are we gonna have xchat in the default install? | 13:13 |
| lcuk | :D | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | well it isn't an official xchat hildonizing :P | 13:13 |
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| timeless | timeless_mer | 13:15 |
| timeless | /query timeless_mer | 13:15 |
| timeless | poke | 13:15 |
| Livingroom | afk guys | 13:15 |
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| timeless | qwerty: what's a tray baloon | 13:17 |
| timeless | and why can't i see it? | 13:17 |
| qwerty12 | Extremely annoying, believe me. You have to install some libnotify stuff to see them (never tried on tablet, did it in ubuntu and hated it). | 13:18 |
| timeless | heh | 13:18 |
| Livingroom | what repo has dosbox? | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | extras i think | 13:19 |
| Livingroom | hmm | 13:19 |
| qwerty12 | pupnik's build is on his site | 13:19 |
| Livingroom | i have extras installed, but ...no dosbox | 13:19 |
| qwerty12 | http://pupnik.de/dosbox.html | 13:19 |
| Livingroom | hmm | 13:20 |
| Livingroom | how to install a deb locally, though. interesting... | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | download and double click it? | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:21 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: http://i.gizmodo.com/5143547/how+to-install-ubuntu-on-your-ps3-for-vintage-gaming-emulation <- another possibility for Mer/powerpc ;) | 13:27 |
| des^ | lol | 13:27 |
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| Livingroom | AAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH | 13:40 |
| Livingroom | why dont they build mobile devices WITH BUILT IN MATH-CO PROCESSORS?!?! | 13:40 |
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| Livingroom | it's called a floating point unit. | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | they're slow? :P | 13:40 |
| Livingroom | USE IT FOR GODS SAKE | 13:40 |
| mavhc | why do you want floating point? | 13:41 |
| qwerty12 | N8x0 has a vfp... | 13:41 |
| Livingroom | virtual = sux0rs | 13:41 |
| Livingroom | it needs a dedicated FPU. | 13:41 |
| herz1 | Stskeeps: that not true nowadays | 13:41 |
| mavhc | they have DSPs | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | herz1: true, that was a totally unfounded statement from me :) | 13:43 |
| Livingroom | so how are these fools on youtube running KDE on the N800? | 13:43 |
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| suihkulokki | Livingroom: the "v" in vfp is not for virtual, please google before flaming | 13:44 |
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| Livingroom | v for ...vendetta? no. i googled; i see it means vector. what does that mean? | 13:45 |
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| mavhc | it's dsp-ish? | 13:47 |
| herz1 | Livingroom: maybe the just replay a video recorded on the desktop? | 13:48 |
| herz1 | *they | 13:48 |
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| Meizirkki | !!! | 13:52 |
| Meizirkki | fennec is in jaunty repo | 13:52 |
| Meizirkki | : | 13:52 |
| Meizirkki | ) | 13:52 |
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| timeless | if it's there, i don't see it | 13:56 |
| timeless | is it not in user/ ? | 13:56 |
| qwerty12 | Probably not, I don't think jaunty people cater for h-a-m's needs | 13:57 |
| timeless | aww, we need to fix that :) | 13:58 |
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| timeless | sp3001: how do i kill application manager when its stupid catalogs dialog is open but not responding? | 14:05 |
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| timeless | qwerty... | 14:05 |
| timeless | You are connected to 1 IRC networks | 14:05 |
| timeless | if it can't count to 1, it should use network(s) | 14:06 |
| timeless | if it can, it should avoid showing the s :) | 14:06 |
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| * timeless tries to install fennec | 14:12 | |
| Meizirkki | fennec in mer is just as crappy it's in maemo | 14:15 |
| Meizirkki | :( | 14:15 |
| Stskeeps | scrshots? | 14:15 |
| Meizirkki | sec | 14:16 |
| RST38h | Was it a surprise? :) | 14:17 |
| Meizirkki | RST38h: nope :P | 14:17 |
| Meizirkki | but it seems to be even worse | 14:18 |
| Meizirkki | font is really small... | 14:18 |
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| Meizirkki | Stskeeps: couple of screenshots: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz | 14:20 |
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| RST38h | They are releasing WinMobile version real soon now, so rejoice! =) | 14:20 |
| * RST38h did make himself write initial 65816 emulation | 14:21 | |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: mmkay | 14:21 |
| RST38h | btw what is roope? can we have it in diablo? =) | 14:22 |
| Macer__ | last time i tried fennec on my n800 it kinda sucked | 14:23 |
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| slonopotamus | show me, please, bootmenu config file for mer | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | http://rafb.net/p/VgRhQq17.html | 14:29 |
| slonopotamus | thx | 14:30 |
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| slonopotamus | ITEM_FSOPTIONS="noatime,ro" ??? | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 14:31 |
| slonopotamus | wtf? | 14:31 |
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| Stskeeps | mounting the fs noatime and read-only like kernel does it | 14:31 |
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| slonopotamus | who remounts in rw? | 14:32 |
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| Stskeeps | the init scripts, when having done fsck | 14:32 |
| slonopotamus | k | 14:32 |
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| slonopotamus | i'm still fighting with init :( | 14:33 |
| slonopotamus | i can't get text console right for some reason | 14:34 |
| slonopotamus | or it looks like i can't :) | 14:34 |
| slonopotamus | anyway, it doesn't boot | 14:35 |
| slonopotamus | gone for reboot | 14:35 |
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| wazd | hey everybody) | 14:47 |
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| Macer | wow... democrats have a 60/40 lead in the senate | 14:48 |
| Macer | crazy | 14:48 |
| timeless | frankin won? | 14:48 |
| timeless | or the other one? | 14:48 |
| Macer | the guy from NH | 14:49 |
| wazd | it's chaaaange!!!11 | 14:49 |
| Macer | haha | 14:49 |
| Macer | holy fuck that is a huge senate lead | 14:49 |
| Macer | not to mention the HoR | 14:49 |
| RST38h | hey awazd | 14:49 |
| Macer | obama is going to be able to just streamline shit through | 14:49 |
| wazd | Yes we can!11 Yes we caaannn!211 | 14:49 |
| RST38h | What Senate? | 14:49 |
| timeless | there's only one that matters | 14:50 |
| RST38h | Ah, THAT Senate | 14:50 |
| Macer | hahaha | 14:50 |
| * RST38h gets some peanuts, popcorn, and prepares to watch the next season of this macabre soap opera | 14:50 | |
| Macer | democrats control 60 senate seats | 14:50 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya :) | 14:50 |
| Macer | that is outrageous | 14:50 |
| timeless | got a url for this? | 14:51 |
| timeless | i can't find it | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: well just shows the republicans -really- fucked up :P | 14:51 |
| AStorm | or that your new dark-skinned (political correctness ;) ) leader has really good press | 14:52 |
| AStorm | btw, hello | 14:52 |
| * wazd don't care bout US&A senate, wazd cares bout animated icons ) | 14:52 | |
| Macer | i'm watching it on c-span | 14:52 |
| Macer | AStorm hahaha | 14:52 |
| wazd | AStorm: "dark-skinned is offencive! | 14:53 |
| wazd | Astorm: afro-american! | 14:53 |
| AStorm | whatever | 14:53 |
| AStorm | I could've said just black | 14:53 |
| soap | less offensive than you nearly saying "darkie" | 14:53 |
| wazd | AStorm: Yes we can!11 | 14:53 |
| wazd | xD | 14:53 |
| AStorm | soap: I think so too, some people actually think it *is* offensive to call someone black. Damned fascists. | 14:54 |
| mavhc | he hasn't got an afro, can't call him afro-american, what about skinhead, that can't be offensive? | 14:55 |
| AStorm | uhm, it can | 14:55 |
| mavhc | what do you call non american black people? | 14:55 |
| RST38h | mavhc: negroes? | 14:55 |
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| AStorm | mavhc: I'd call them black or African, maybe negro? | 14:56 |
| mavhc | everyone's african | 14:56 |
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| RST38h | mavhc: Even poor guys who happened to be born outside Africa? | 14:56 |
| AStorm | they were there longer, yes | 14:56 |
| AStorm | :> | 14:56 |
| mavhc | I prefer "human" | 14:57 |
| RST38h | mavhc: that is offensive too | 14:57 |
| mavhc | without the quotes, with is just wrong | 14:57 |
| RST38h | mavhc: it destroys one's heritage by using a race/nationality/etc neutral word | 14:57 |
| AStorm | yes, it sounds communist | 14:58 |
| Macer | wow .. there really is NOTHING to watch on actual tv | 14:58 |
| AStorm | you're damned by that already | 14:58 |
| mavhc | Macer: welcome to 2001 | 14:58 |
| Macer | i don't understand why networks aren't going bankrupt along with everybody else | 14:58 |
| RST38h | Sounds like "hummus" too. I feel offended now. | 14:58 |
| mavhc | people are retarded | 14:58 |
| RST38h | Macer: Give 'em time. | 14:58 |
| mavhc | 50% of people have a 2 digit IQ for a start | 14:58 |
| Macer | cspan2 has a guy that is so white.. he is making the things around him glow calling himself a "Muslim Historian" | 14:58 |
| Macer | hahha | 14:58 |
| RST38h | At least one US senator is blue/silvery-skinned | 14:59 |
| mavhc | alien | 14:59 |
| RST38h | I wonder what you would call THAT | 14:59 |
| Stskeeps | smurf. | 14:59 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:59 |
| mavhc | he's a US senator? I'll bet on calling him and old white guy | 14:59 |
| Macer | there are 5 white people... who are obviously not muslim.. sitting at a table all talking about their book Blind Spot | 14:59 |
| RST38h | Offensive to smurfs. | 14:59 |
| mavhc | obviously? | 15:00 |
| Macer | which is about how people don't get Islam | 15:00 |
| RST38h | Macer: A moment, lemme locate that article... | 15:00 |
| mavhc | maybe they converted | 15:00 |
| Macer | mavhc - like malcolm X? | 15:00 |
| Macer | most white people of this caliber go to club fed | 15:00 |
| Macer | i don't think there is much need for muslim conversion there in order to protect yourself | 15:01 |
| AStorm | mavhc: nah | 15:01 |
| AStorm | 50% *can't* have 2-digit IQ | 15:01 |
| AStorm | or the scale would be broken | 15:01 |
| AStorm | IQ is relative | 15:01 |
| AStorm | to others in the same population | 15:01 |
| mavhc | what muslims need is a crazy spinoff religion where rich people pay | 15:01 |
| AStorm | about 20% are expected to have IQ of 100 | 15:01 |
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| AStorm | +/- 5 | 15:01 |
| mavhc | AStorm: I'm using floating point | 15:01 |
| AStorm | have a bell curve ;P | 15:02 |
| Macer | 20 federal agencies are protecting the super bowl | 15:02 |
| mavhc | exactly, 50% above 100, 50% below | 15:02 |
| RST38h | Enjoy the good senator for now: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2297471.stm | 15:02 |
| Macer | amazing | 15:02 |
| AStorm | yes, so? | 15:02 |
| mavhc | what's so super about this bowl anyway, does it stop your ceral getting soggy? | 15:02 |
| AStorm | with 100 being the expected average | 15:02 |
| suihkulokki | most people think they are smarter than average ;) | 15:02 |
| AStorm | and IQ precision is about 10 points | 15:02 |
| AStorm | of most tests | 15:02 |
| mavhc | 99% of people surveyed thought they were better than average drivers | 15:02 |
| AStorm | you can have that much variance | 15:03 |
| Zic | can you confirm that the ARM v6 cpu on the N800 is more powerful than a ARM v4 processor on a Freerunner ? they are both cadenced à 600Mhz | 15:03 |
| Zic | s/à/at/ | 15:03 |
| AStorm | mavhc: idiots ;P the *average* is the average | 15:03 |
| infobot | Zic meant: can you confirm that the ARM v6 cpu on the N800 is more powerful than a ARM v4 processor on a Freerunner ? they are both cadenced at 600Mhz | 15:03 |
| Macer | i would figure that the NFL would pay for super bowl security | 15:03 |
| Macer | not the taxpayers | 15:03 |
| mavhc | AStorm: is your point lots of people are exactly 100? | 15:03 |
| AStorm | mavhc: but it's the known individualistic delusion | 15:03 |
| AStorm | mavhc: lots are very close to 100 | 15:03 |
| Macer | 20 federal agencies for a football game? | 15:03 |
| AStorm | thanks to bell curve | 15:03 |
| mavhc | AStorm: 50% of those very close are below, 2 digits | 15:03 |
| AStorm | yes, so? | 15:04 |
| AStorm | as I said, IQ tests aren't precise enough | 15:04 |
| mavhc | so 50% of people have 2 digit iq | 15:04 |
| wazd | Zic: I think n800 CPU is 400 MHz or something | 15:04 |
| suihkulokki | Macer: yes, in case someone shows a nipple | 15:04 |
| suihkulokki | you can never be too carefull | 15:04 |
| Zic | wazd: yes it is, just a typo, sorry | 15:04 |
| AStorm | true, but 2-digit eq close to 100 doesn't tell you if a person is stupider than average | 15:04 |
| AStorm | too much noise | 15:04 |
| Macer | NBC made 206M$ | 15:04 |
| Zic | wazd: but performances are "visible" between v6 and v4 ? | 15:04 |
| Macer | why aren't they paying for some of this crap ? | 15:04 |
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| AStorm | (the expected range for most "average" people is 90-100-110) | 15:05 |
| AStorm | of course, if the test (different) is taken many times, the actual noise should average out | 15:06 |
| AStorm | and you get your own true value | 15:06 |
| RST38h | Macer: Enjoy: http://exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=7031&IBLOCK_ID=35&phrase_id=20637 | 15:07 |
| mavhc | AStorm: 68.27% of people are between 84-116 | 15:07 |
| AStorm | yes | 15:07 |
| AStorm | close to 50 between 90 and 100 | 15:07 |
| AStorm | 90 and 110 (stupid keyboard!) | 15:08 |
| AStorm | 33% between 84 and 100 | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | Zic: vfp ability prolly helps in some cases :P | 15:09 |
| AStorm | *you* might be there and think yourself above average ;P | 15:09 |
| RST38h | AStorm,mavhc: just want to point out that IQ value cannot be weighted against the whole population simply because you do not have the numbers for the whole population to get the mean from | 15:09 |
| Zic | Stskeeps: vpf ability? | 15:10 |
| AStorm | RST38h: but we have representative groups, almost as good | 15:10 |
| RST38h | I.e. it may be weighted against some data computed some time ago, for some group of people | 15:10 |
| AStorm | yes | 15:10 |
| mavhc | RST38h: but we can have a confidence interval | 15:10 |
| AStorm | populational was considered at one time | 15:10 |
| AStorm | but it looked as if people were getting dumber with time | 15:10 |
| AStorm | so they threw the idea out the window | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | Zic: http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/46-N800-VFP-or-not-to-VFP.html | 15:10 |
| AStorm | (as in, old people = stupid) | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | which armv4t doesn't have, AFAIK | 15:10 |
| AStorm | and they noticed a few sharp jumps in IQ too | 15:11 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Well, the amount of IQ given to Earthlings by the Wise Tentacled One is constant while the population is constantly increasing... | 15:11 |
| AStorm | (in age groups) | 15:11 |
| AStorm | uh, no | 15:11 |
| AStorm | actually, using older measures of IQ, it's increasing slowly, linearly | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Macer: BTW, I can personally sign under each word of that article. It does look gross if you haven't watched it for a while. | 15:11 |
| AStorm | but there were a bunch of spikes (both up and down) | 15:12 |
| AStorm | that's why now IQ is measured in age groups, not whole population | 15:12 |
| AStorm | some people tried to prove that race determines IQ... actually, they failed | 15:13 |
| AStorm | environment does though | 15:13 |
| AStorm | (a bit) | 15:13 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Let us just assume that the gradual increase in Earth's global IQ is a product of Tentacled One's gastrointestinary processes | 15:14 |
| AStorm | that's why you can expect an average Afro-american to score similarly to slums White. | 15:14 |
| mavhc | really need more ram in internet tablets, does it affect battery life? | 15:14 |
| AStorm | RST38h: or global warming ;P | 15:14 |
| AStorm | mavhc: try compcache! | 15:14 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Which leads us to a simple solution | 15:14 |
| AStorm | mavhc: it shouldn't affect battery life a whole lot | 15:14 |
| AStorm | I'd expect 2-3% | 15:15 |
| mavhc | needs more ram then, anyone good at soldering? :-) | 15:15 |
| RST38h | AStorm: By feeding part of the world population to the Tentacled One, we both decrease population and increase His gastrointestinary activity thus increasing avreage human's IQ | 15:15 |
| AStorm | mavhc: uhhh, OMAP 2 doesn't support more I think | 15:15 |
| AStorm | You'd have to wire in a controller | 15:15 |
| mavhc | ah | 15:15 |
| RST38h | mavhc: you are screwed there, I am afraid...it is integrated into one of the chips | 15:15 |
| AStorm | RST38h: prove it | 15:15 |
| AStorm | also, who is that Tentacled One (I know the True Name) | 15:16 |
| AStorm | ;P | 15:16 |
| mavhc | when they say all-in-one chip, they mean it then | 15:16 |
| AStorm | RST38h: it's not | 15:16 |
| AStorm | it's a separate DRAM chip, controller *is* integrated though | 15:16 |
| AStorm | but, you could abuse Linux | 15:16 |
| AStorm | have RAM look like flash chip | 15:16 |
| AStorm | then, use it for swapping | 15:16 |
| AStorm | people actually did that | 15:17 |
| mavhc | a literal ram disk | 15:17 |
| AStorm | yes | 15:17 |
| Zic | Stskeeps: thanks, but even if VFP or not VFP... :) A friend told me that the ARM v4 processor on the Freerunner is really slower than the ARM v6 (without speak about software influence, just hardware theory) | 15:17 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Heres is the canonical image of the Tentacled One *explaining* a few technical details to Nokia engineers: http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/absurdopedia/images/8/8b/Wageslave_large.jpg | 15:17 |
| AStorm | mavhc: btw, try compcache already | 15:17 |
| Zic | (ARM v6 which is on N8*0 IT) | 15:17 |
| mavhc | without software all cpus are limited to 9.8m/s/s | 15:17 |
| AStorm | mavhc: limited to what? | 15:18 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Well, if I understand GAN's explanation correctly, it is an integrated DRAM+NAND chip | 15:18 |
| Stskeeps | Zic: i wasn't positively impressed by the freerunner when spending some days nearby it | 15:18 |
| RST38h | AStorm: So, no hope upgrading it | 15:19 |
| mavhc | limited to gravity | 15:19 |
| AStorm | RST38h: it is, but that doesn't stop you from adding another one | 15:19 |
| AStorm | :P | 15:19 |
| AStorm | RST38h: except that RAM controller supports 256 MB afaicr | 15:19 |
| suihkulokki | RST38h: they are not *integrated* they are *stacked* - omap + dram + nand on top of each others | 15:19 |
| AStorm | (but flash does support much more) | 15:19 |
| AStorm | yes | 15:19 |
| AStorm | of course, you can't rip out any | 15:20 |
| AStorm | :P | 15:20 |
| Zic | Stskeeps: ah ! you are interesting me, what's your opinion about Freerunner ? (in comparaison with N8*0 IT, because I'm hesitating to sell my Nokia IT because I order a Freerunner recently) | 15:20 |
| AStorm | but, there are spare pins | 15:20 |
| RST38h | suihkul: From the point of view of a guy with a soldering iron, that is integrated =) | 15:20 |
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| Stskeeps | Zic: i'd keep the NIT personally and only buy freerunner if you want to hack things on to it | 15:20 |
| AStorm | RST38h: yes, *but* you can add another chip. | 15:20 |
| AStorm | exactly one another chip :P | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | if you want an actual usable phone, get a cheap nokia :P | 15:20 |
| RST38h | Freerunner is pretty useless as a consumer device | 15:21 |
| RST38h | NIT is actually useful | 15:21 |
| AStorm | RST38h: not that it'd be easy, adding traces to the CPU | 15:21 |
| Zic | Stskeeps: I own an HTC Touch, and yes, it runs Windows Mobile ;-( | 15:21 |
| AStorm | actually, I'd call it "bloody hard" | 15:21 |
| AStorm | or "nigh-impossible" | 15:21 |
| Zic | RST38h: but NIT does not have any GSM modem ;-) | 15:21 |
| AStorm | depending on your skill with adding sockets and availability of reflow | 15:22 |
| Zic | and I don't want to use my Freerunner as an Internet device, just a beta phone | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | Zic: next one will have hsdpa | 15:22 |
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| johnx | hallo :) | 15:22 |
| AStorm | meh, even a socket won't do, unless you make one | 15:22 |
| Zic | (I kept my HTC Touch for every days phone) | 15:22 |
| AStorm | johnx: hi | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | Zic: in term of openness and such, HTC touch is probably even more useful than freerunner :P | 15:22 |
| Zic | (even if it runs the *evil* Windows Mobile) | 15:22 |
| Zic | Stskeeps: you are right :P | 15:22 |
| AStorm | mavhc: so, you're most likely out of luck here | 15:23 |
| AStorm | mavhc: you'd have to add a few traces to CPU pins | 15:23 |
| AStorm | mavhc: for now, try out compcache to save some RAM at CPU time cost | 15:23 |
| RST38h | Zic: A cheap slim Samsung will save your day | 15:23 |
| AStorm | btw, could someone package that kernel module? | 15:23 |
| Zic | Stskeeps: about the hsdpa, just 3,5G connection, or GSM too ? | 15:23 |
| RST38h | Zic: At a really competitive cost too | 15:23 |
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| Stskeeps | Zic: i suspect gsm too, else always-on is kinda bad :P | 15:24 |
| AStorm | RST38h: I have one cheap slim Samsung myself :P | 15:24 |
| AStorm | this U700 has a nasty habit of USB hanging after you use bluetooth | 15:25 |
| AStorm | and a few weird touch buttons | 15:25 |
| Zic | Stskeeps: I don't like GSM modem (even if I need a phone...), just a cellular data connection an not a GSM will be fine | 15:25 |
| AStorm | other than that, it's fine | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | Zic: GPRS is GSM .. | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:25 |
| RST38h | AStorm: ah who care about USB on it... | 15:25 |
| RST38h | cares | 15:25 |
| AStorm | RST38h: I do, when I connect it to the laptop | 15:25 |
| AStorm | to use as a modem | 15:25 |
| AStorm | bluetooth is limited too 300 kbps or so | 15:25 |
| RST38h | AStorm: It just has to call and provide GPRS over BT | 15:26 |
| AStorm | *to | 15:26 |
| AStorm | yes | 15:26 |
| AStorm | but BT is too slow for some reason | 15:26 |
| AStorm | I don't know why, it does support all the fast protocols | 15:26 |
| Zic | Stskeeps: hmm, afaik, HSPDPA exists without GSM modem (?) | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | Zic: yeah, probably | 15:26 |
| RST38h | You can probably get a slim S40-based Nokia or an E51 for the same purpose | 15:26 |
| AStorm | GSM != GPRS | 15:26 |
| RST38h | But it will be more expensive | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | just saying that it would be useful to include 2G in 3G chipset :P | 15:27 |
| RST38h | Sts: Isn't it there by default? | 15:27 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: that was mentioned to be in next NIT | 15:27 |
| AStorm | to make normal calls | 15:27 |
| AStorm | RST38h: need not be, but may | 15:27 |
| Zic | Stskeeps: size of NIT are not very confortable to make normal call :) | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: not sure. people were pissed off to not have 2g access on iphone 3g i think | 15:27 |
| AStorm | actually, the difference is software | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not talking about calls. | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | i'm talking about data. | 15:27 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: that would be stupid on Apple part | 15:28 |
| AStorm | as the only difference is modulation | 15:28 |
| AStorm | and turbo symbols | 15:28 |
| AStorm | (not used in EDGE) | 15:28 |
| Zic | no, hypothetic GSM modem for the next NIT or next NIT+1 ? | 15:29 |
| Zic | s/no/so/ | 15:29 |
| infobot | Zic meant: so, hypothetic GSM modem for the next NIT or next NIT+1 ? | 15:29 |
| RST38h | Sts: iPhone is a different animal | 15:29 |
| AStorm | Zic: yes, I think it was confirmed officially even? | 15:30 |
| AStorm | for the next one | 15:30 |
| rzr | hi | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | lo rzr | 15:31 |
| rzr | some links are broken on mer 0.7 page | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | yes, i know | 15:31 |
| rzr | ok | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | it's in the process of being released | 15:31 |
| rzr | ok great | 15:31 |
| rzr | i'll review it soon | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | i was delayed by a freaking race condition | 15:31 |
| Zic | AStorm: for the codenamed unofficially by the community "N900" ? I just heard about a "cellular data connection thanks to HSDPA, but nothing about a GSM modem | 15:31 |
| Zic | (if somebody can confirm...) | 15:31 |
| rzr | Stskeeps: take your time | 15:32 |
| Zic | maybe N900+1 will come with a GSM modem ? :P | 15:32 |
| AStorm | Zic: it has to support those distress calls | 15:32 |
| AStorm | so, definitely GSM | 15:32 |
| AStorm | maybe hardcoded, but still | 15:32 |
| RST38h | Zic: It will have to have GSM | 15:32 |
| * Jucato will diea of jealousy if the next IT will have built-in GSM features... | 15:32 | |
| Zic | oh, ok | 15:32 |
| Zic | thanks ;) | 15:32 |
| RST38h | AStorm: N900 does not have to support distress calls | 15:32 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Because it is not a phone | 15:33 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i'm really really starting to wonder if they are making it into a phone | 15:33 |
| Zic | hmm, but canibal issue into Nokia : N97 and "N900" ? both phones ? | 15:33 |
| Stskeeps | the pre-alphas are showing -really- weird stuff | 15:33 |
| AStorm | in some parts of the world, it is required for any device with call functionality | 15:33 |
| AStorm | using GSM networks | 15:33 |
| RST38h | AStorm: OTOH, as they will most likely use the same baseband hw as used in their phones, it will most likely have GSM | 15:33 |
| AStorm | yes | 15:33 |
| AStorm | that too :) | 15:33 |
| AStorm | even if they don't implement it fully, we'll have a nice hacking ground | 15:33 |
| * RST38h suspects voice calling will be disabled though, 2G or 3G | 15:33 | |
| Zic | rsalveti: disabled on software ? | 15:34 |
| Zic | or hardware ? | 15:34 |
| AStorm | RST38h: unlikely, I suspect it will be done fully in hardware | 15:34 |
| AStorm | as a special soundcard or such | 15:34 |
| AStorm | much easier than writing the software | 15:34 |
| Zic | because if hardware supports 2G and/or 3G and does not have software function to work, maybe some hackers can... hack :) | 15:34 |
| AStorm | hope they will describe it enough | 15:34 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: Normally, it is done on a separate chip (usually 50-90MHz ARM) that is provided by another manufacturer | 15:37 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Connected through I2C or a similar bus and talking AT command set, for most features | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | there's a BB5 in the tablets already, probably not that difficult :P | 15:37 |
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| Zic | have we got some infos of the release date for the next NIT ? | 15:40 |
| RST38h | Zic: summer 2009, approximately | 15:40 |
| RST38h | Zic: Check iTT for all the other rumors | 15:40 |
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| Zic | oh, I already check :D | 15:40 |
| * RST38h is out, picking flowersss | 15:40 | |
| Zic | :) | 15:41 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: yes, but what about audio IO? | 15:41 |
| AStorm | :) | 15:41 |
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| Zic | RST38h: do you think that, even if software does not support it, with installing third-software like Zhone, we will can make calls with the next NIT so ? | 15:52 |
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| timelE61i | yOu could install skype! | 15:53 |
| timelE61i | Well, at least you could for the n800/n810 :) | 15:53 |
| Zic | Skype is evil, like my actual Windows Mobile phone ;-) | 15:55 |
| Zic | but I could configure my tablet as a VoIP phone only too, yeah :P | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | skype on n8x0 keeps me and the fiancée close when she's abroad | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | it's really nice :) | 15:56 |
| Zic | (you use the word "fiancée" in english ? huhu) | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | i'm a dane :P | 15:58 |
| Zic | and I'm french :) | 15:58 |
| johnx | "English doesn't borrow from other languages, it mugs them in dark alleys and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar." | 16:00 |
| Stskeeps | morning johnx | 16:00 |
| timelE61i | isn't the accent on the last e? | 16:01 |
| timelE61i | But yes, we import french words | 16:02 |
| timelE61i | Naïve ... | 16:02 |
| Zic | timelE61i: I know for somes words, like we import english words in french, but not for "fiancée" or "naïve" | 16:02 |
| Zic | and the accent is on the first e, yes :) | 16:02 |
| timelE61i | Coöperate (although rarely properly written? | 16:02 |
| * timelE61i isn't certain about that word's heritage | 16:03 | |
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| Zic | we have the verb coopérer in french... but not coöperate word | 16:04 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: waiting for 770 build, been a little delayed due to a stupid race condition in NFS + imager | 16:04 |
| wnd | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_French_origin | 16:04 |
| Zic | wnd: oh, I don't know about this page :) | 16:04 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, sounds awesome. I'm definitely going to kick the zaurus hardware support and imager into shape for feb15 | 16:07 |
| timelE61i | ok, seems we inserted the accent on our own, but i'd assume the word root came from the french | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: got early vmdk and n800 tar.gz if you wanna test quickly | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | 770 takes a bit of time so | 16:10 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, grabbing the .tar.gz, eating curry+rice :) | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | what tar.gz? :P | 16:14 |
| johnx | the one you'll tell me about? :D | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | ah, yes | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | we so need an animation between the dialogs.. | 16:15 |
| johnx | yup, I can do that. | 16:15 |
| johnx | I'm probably going to refactor that script O_O; | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 16:16 |
| johnx | it's a little unwieldy | 16:16 |
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| * Stskeeps notes idly that checking for packages update time is inversely proportional to the amount of packages it shows | 16:19 | |
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| gomiam | Stskeeps: that would point to the discarding algorithm being somewhat flawed. | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | gomiam: well, Hildon Application Manager is not built for showing all the Ubuntu packages :) | 16:23 |
| gomiam | oh XD | 16:24 |
| Zic | http://www.nokian900.com/nokia-n900-internet-tablet-rumors/#more-15 | 16:24 |
| Zic | don't know his source but he say : Nokia N900 will have support for Quad-band GSM, HSDPA, WiMAX, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. | 16:24 |
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| Zic | "Quad-band GSM" | 16:24 |
| johnx | Zic, that makes sense | 16:24 |
| * Zic take a look at his Freerunner order | 16:24 | |
| Zic | hmm :> | 16:24 |
| johnx | I've never heard of an HSPA chipset that didn't also support GSM/GRPS... | 16:25 |
| Zic | johnx: in somes old pre-netbook family, yes it exists | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | success on VMDK, N8x0 image | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | , rootstrap | 16:25 |
| Zic | but in a portable device, you are right | 16:25 |
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| johnx | wonder if we'll see wimax in the same device as HSPA... | 16:26 |
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| Stskeeps | doubtful re wimax.. unless they put in a software defined radio or something | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | (which would be leet, btw. :P) | 16:27 |
| johnx | acually, that page looks more like a wishlist... | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | or a adsite | 16:27 |
| johnx | yes. it looks like that too | 16:27 |
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| johnx | I think I'm most curious about form factor and price at this point | 16:28 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.7 btw - impressive what has happened in 14 days :P | 16:29 |
| johnx | it only took 14 days to make the page blank? | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | wtf. | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | not again. | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | ctrl-f5 :P | 16:29 |
| johnx | yeah, shift-control-r | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | or ctrl-r :P | 16:29 |
| johnx | ctrl-r didn't cut it | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | maemo.org messing up i thin | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | k | 16:30 |
| johnx | we really have no luck with our hosting, huh? | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | hey, last open source project i had was cursed. it bankrupted the hosting companies | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:31 |
| johnx | O_o | 16:31 |
| johnx | heh...but then again, it was somewhat popular :) | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | no clue why but i have seen quite a big deal of bankruptcies in donated hosting | 16:32 |
| johnx | imagine that | 16:33 |
| johnx | and it seemed like such a solid business plan, too :) | 16:33 |
| Zic | "As Nokia N800 and Nokia N810 were criticized about the big sizes, it seems the N900 will be a bit smaller, just like iPhone, with a 3.5″ display." | 16:33 |
| Zic | hmm | 16:33 |
| johnx | Zic, that's an adsite | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | probable bullshit :P | 16:33 |
| Zic | johnx: I know, but just imagine :) | 16:33 |
| mavhc | who criticized it? it fits in your pocket, qed | 16:34 |
| Zic | NIT will become just smartphones... | 16:34 |
| Zic | one day ;) | 16:34 |
| johnx | mavhc, well, lots of people said it was too big to hold up to your face and make calls with | 16:34 |
| johnx | Zic, well, they are changing the name... | 16:34 |
| mavhc | it's not a phone, stop holding it up to your face you plonker | 16:34 |
| * Stskeeps uses headset extensively | 16:35 | |
| Stskeeps | works a lot better | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | tablet in pocket | 16:35 |
| johnx | mavhc, the next one will likely be making calls at least... | 16:35 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, are you one of those people who wander everywhere with a bt headset in your ear? | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: no, n800-provided headphones | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | but that's just when i'm on the road | 16:36 |
| wazd | Any hardware deails bout n900 are 99% crap) | 16:36 |
| mavhc | johnx: better than walk around with a phone on your ear | 16:36 |
| wazd | details | 16:36 |
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| johnx | mavhc, but I mean *all the time.* There were people at my last job who put them in in the morning and took them out before bed | 16:37 |
| johnx | I assume they took them out anyways... | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | borg people | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:37 |
| mavhc | cybermen | 16:37 |
| mavhc | did they have 2? | 16:37 |
| johnx | ex-military O_o | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | borg. | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 16:37 |
| johnx | hey, he got stuff *done* and no mistake | 16:38 |
| johnx | but you can never tell if he was talking to you or to the voices in his head... | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 16:38 |
| wazd | About the storage, Nokia may have 16GB internal storage capacity, as well as a miniSDHC slot to extend it to your needs. | 16:38 |
| wazd | who wrote that?) | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | well as long as he was turning a good profit from the voices in the head.. | 16:38 |
| mavhc | so really what you want is a big flashing light on his head when he's online | 16:38 |
| johnx | wazd, how about 32GB and microSDHC :) | 16:38 |
| mavhc | minisd is dead | 16:38 |
| wazd | The web browsing will be done using an Internet Browser from Opera, supporting all common standards. | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | .... | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | wtf | 16:38 |
| johnx | wazd, that's what triggered my bullshit meter :) | 16:39 |
| wazd | The author of that site is a total dumbass) | 16:39 |
| johnx | wazd, but he's making money off ads for sure :) | 16:39 |
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| Stskeeps | lo b-man | 16:39 |
| mavhc | go and click all his ads a lot, trigger the fraud detector | 16:39 |
| johnx | mavhc, I guess I should get my own borg goggles and some detectors so I can tell who is talking on the phone... | 16:39 |
| b-man | hey, Stskeeps :) | 16:40 |
| gomiam | johnx: ads? I saw no ads... ooops, got Adblock :P | 16:40 |
| johnx | gomiam, I only block ads when they piss me off...but when I do I block the whole domain. It's kind of a survival of the least annoying competition :) | 16:40 |
| gomiam | johnx: you allot too much time to ad-blocking. I haven't got enough braincells for that ;) | 16:41 |
| johnx | gomiam, my workflow looks like this: ad blinks -> right click -> block -> select domain -> ok | 16:42 |
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| johnx | takes about 5 seconds and I only had to block 10-20 domains before there weren't any blinking ads left :) | 16:42 |
| gomiam | johnx: I have a click disability, you insensitive clod! ;) | 16:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | If the only ads on the internet were Google's text adsense ones, then I wouldn't be using adblock | 16:42 |
| mavhc | get over yourself then | 16:42 |
| mavhc | qwerty12_N800: except when there's so many there's no blank space to click | 16:43 |
| johnx | in that case the site is a lost cause :) just like people who do layout in flash | 16:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | mavhc, hmm, good point | 16:43 |
| wazd | oh, iphone will get sort of flash at last) | 16:44 |
| gomiam | true, true | 16:44 |
| wazd | maybe nextgen | 16:44 |
| johnx | (&*$% flash | 16:44 |
| mavhc | why can maemo do flash but apple said iphone couldn't? | 16:44 |
| johnx | mavhc, nokia paid up. apple didn't | 16:44 |
| gomiam | mavhc: couldn't or... wouldn't? | 16:45 |
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| johnx | also, apple probably had an internal beta of flash and found it ran too slow | 16:45 |
| timelE61i | oR hot :) | 16:46 |
| timelE61i | Flash is bad for battery life | 16:46 |
| johnx | if apple saw the flash performance on the n8x0 they'd probably say 'better nothing than something this slow.' That's the apple 'think different' mentality: better to give people no solution, than an 80% solution | 16:46 |
| mavhc | cathedral view | 16:47 |
| timelE61i | Apple knew they could direct the market and vendors would cater to apple | 16:47 |
| timelE61i | It happened | 16:47 |
| wazd | johnx: well, I woudn't say that they are completely wrong with this) | 16:48 |
| johnx | yeah. i bet adobe is kicking themselves now for not managing to make apple license flash for 10 million freaking phones | 16:48 |
| timelE61i | Why waste money confusing the market w/ multiple incomplete paths | 16:48 |
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| johnx | in this case, I do agree with apple: flash on the desktop is an 80% solution at best. flash on mobile stuff isn't worth it | 16:49 |
| mavhc | how's gnash doing? | 16:49 |
| johnx | looks ok. I wonder if it's fast enough to play youtube videos on ARM... | 16:51 |
| mavhc | what codec does the flash video on youtube use? | 16:51 |
| johnx | flv | 16:52 |
| timelE61i | that's a container | 16:52 |
| timelE61i | Not a codec | 16:52 |
| johnx | ah, then I have no idea :) | 16:52 |
| timelE61i | historically it was vp6 | 16:55 |
| timelE61i | (people could read the wikipedia article, it's faster than waiting for it to d/l to my phone's browser) | 16:56 |
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| AStorm | nowadays flash vids still use vp6 | 16:57 |
| AStorm | most of the time | 16:57 |
| mavhc | there's no post h264 codec in flash 10 anyway | 16:58 |
| AStorm | mhm | 16:58 |
| AStorm | ok, people | 16:58 |
| AStorm | I need someone to build me compcache | 16:58 |
| AStorm | the kernel module and tools | 16:59 |
| AStorm | just to test it | 16:59 |
| AStorm | http://code.google.com/p/compcache/ | 17:00 |
| AStorm | any volunteer? | 17:00 |
| timelE61i | I think newer stuff used h264 instead of vp6 | 17:00 |
| AStorm | timelE61i: hmm, no | 17:00 |
| AStorm | you *can* use h264 | 17:00 |
| AStorm | vp6 is still the default | 17:00 |
| AStorm | h264 is very hard on CPUs, so not widely used, if anywhere | 17:00 |
| tank-man | its used on ipods and psp | 17:01 |
| tank-man | those are widely used | 17:01 |
| AStorm | in flash? | 17:01 |
| tank-man | no, but that codec | 17:02 |
| AStorm | ^ | 17:02 |
| AStorm | yes yes | 17:02 |
| AStorm | but they have powerful dedicated hardware decoders | 17:02 |
| timelE61i | dEdicated hardware at times is a myth | 17:02 |
| AStorm | yes, sometimes | 17:03 |
| AStorm | might be fast software implementation on a DSP | 17:03 |
| AStorm | still, fast | 17:03 |
| timelE61i | oR horribly slow/unusable hardware impl | 17:03 |
| * timelE61i silently grumbles @ti | 17:03 | |
| AStorm | h264 is demanding though | 17:03 |
| timelE61i | oh sure | 17:04 |
| AStorm | http://code.google.com/p/compcache/wiki/Performance - let me have it | 17:04 |
| AStorm | please? | 17:04 |
| timelE61i | bUt it's shiny | 17:04 |
| johnx | AStorm, sure. I'll build it for zaurus-akita 2.6.28 | 17:04 |
| AStorm | johnx: what about building it for maemo's 2.6.21? | 17:05 |
| johnx | AStorm, eh. I'm happy with 128MB of RAM | 17:05 |
| AStorm | 2.6.21-nokia-omap that is | 17:05 |
| AStorm | johnx: I'm not with 256 MB, I tend to open a few pages, start a few apps | 17:05 |
| AStorm | thus, compcache would help | 17:05 |
| johnx | ah, you should install scratchbox | 17:06 |
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| AStorm | yes, I should. | 17:06 |
| AStorm | But it's work and I still don't have the time | 17:06 |
| johnx | less IRC :) | 17:07 |
| AStorm | holidays come in a few weeks | 17:07 |
| AStorm | I think I'll need a few days to get it started | 17:07 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: i seem to be having an error with bzr commit -m; http://pastebin.ca/1324496 | 17:07 |
| AStorm | IRC takes close to 0 time, it is possible to interleave :P | 17:07 |
| AStorm | multitasking and all | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: cd merinstaller; then try? :P | 17:07 |
| johnx | AStorm, you have an ubuntu box or a machine that runs vmware? | 17:07 |
| b-man | oh :P | 17:08 |
| AStorm | johnx: the latter, but no huge bandwidth | 17:08 |
| AStorm | and no ISO d/led yet | 17:08 |
| johnx | I'll take one shot at it? you sure it's ok building against 2.6.21? | 17:09 |
| AStorm | 3 Mbit and 6GB transfer limit | 17:09 |
| AStorm | johnx: not sure, it's likely it won't | 17:09 |
| AStorm | but it doesn't use advanced stuff anyway | 17:09 |
| AStorm | so might workd | 17:09 |
| AStorm | *work | 17:09 |
| AStorm | need someone to try and possibly send me error output | 17:09 |
| AStorm | I'll know what to fix and will send the patch | 17:10 |
| johnx | ok, I'll give it a quick shot | 17:10 |
| johnx | but only cause you said please earlire :) | 17:10 |
| AStorm | :D | 17:11 |
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| b-man | Stskeeps: i'm getting a similar error with bzr :( | 17:36 |
| johnx | hmmm...the psion netbook pro sure looks interesting :D | 17:36 |
| AStorm | johnx: so, what about your quick shot at building? | 17:36 |
| johnx | AStorm, bleh :P still working on getting a nokia kernel compiled | 17:37 |
| AStorm | you don't have to | 17:37 |
| AStorm | just make prepare | 17:37 |
| johnx | well, if I'm going to do this, there are modules I want for myself anyways :) | 17:37 |
| AStorm | be sure to set the options for n810 or copy .config | 17:37 |
| AStorm | ah | 17:37 |
| AStorm | :> | 17:37 |
| johnx | ah, n810 or n800 doesn't matter, right? | 17:38 |
| AStorm | it does a bit | 17:38 |
| AStorm | not for compcache though | 17:38 |
| johnx | ok, good | 17:38 |
| johnx | I thought n800 and n810 shared a kernel image? | 17:38 |
| AStorm | compcache is a filesystem, so no special internal stuff | 17:38 |
| AStorm | they don't | 17:38 |
| AStorm | many low-level things are different | 17:38 |
| AStorm | new linux-omap might support that, not sure | 17:39 |
| AStorm | but that one definitely doesn't | 17:39 |
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| johnx | AStorm, have you looked at any of the execute in place stuff? | 17:40 |
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| AStorm | flash is too slow for that, and you can only do that from the NAND flash | 17:41 |
| AStorm | as a bonus, you'll lose wear levelling *if* it works | 17:41 |
| AStorm | so, no, didn't bother | 17:41 |
| johnx | lose wear leveling *totally* or just make it less effective? | 17:41 |
| AStorm | EIP is for ext2 in memory or fast flash that looks like memory | 17:42 |
| AStorm | or ROM | 17:42 |
| johnx | ah, what about the new one connected to UBIFS? (IIRC) | 17:42 |
| AStorm | no idea. | 17:42 |
| AStorm | I didn't bother, it won't be any faster than flash itself anyway | 17:42 |
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| AStorm | the most important point is that the filesystem has too look like memory | 17:43 |
| AStorm | uhm, s/filesystem/block device/ | 17:43 |
| johnx | ah, so directly randomly addressed? | 17:43 |
| AStorm | yes | 17:44 |
| AStorm | there is a flash driver that does simulate memory | 17:44 |
| johnx | alright, this kernel build should go fast, then I'll try the module | 17:44 |
| AStorm | but it doesn't do wear levelling I think | 17:44 |
| AStorm | maybe UBIFS does | 17:44 |
| AStorm | still - pointless | 17:45 |
| AStorm | as you have to load the data anyway | 17:45 |
| AStorm | you lose just one copy to ram | 17:45 |
| AStorm | and file caching | 17:45 |
| AStorm | (EIP fs is not cached) | 17:45 |
| johnx | I'm thinking about my poor little zaurus that's under a lot more memory pressure than the n800... | 17:45 |
| AStorm | yes, it has half the RAM | 17:46 |
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| johnx | yeah. and swapping to SD is no fun | 17:46 |
| AStorm | I probably couldn't even run the apps I do on n810 | 17:46 |
| johnx | definitely not | 17:46 |
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| AStorm | even with tricks | 17:46 |
| johnx | it's pretty bogged down just running hildon-desktop | 17:46 |
| AStorm | :> | 17:46 |
| AStorm | Nokia 770 also has 128 MB | 17:47 |
| johnx | nope. 64MB | 17:47 |
| johnx | I'm trying to figure out the best swap settings | 17:47 |
| AStorm | ah | 17:47 |
| AStorm | wait | 17:47 |
| AStorm | we have... 128 MB here or... | 17:47 |
| AStorm | I shall check | 17:47 |
| johnx | N8x0 is 128MB | 17:47 |
| AStorm | 128 MB too on n810 | 17:47 |
| AStorm | yeah | 17:47 |
| johnx | 770 and (most of the) zauruses are 64MB | 17:47 |
| AStorm | :P | 17:48 |
| mavhc | really we need smaller apps, they're too bloated | 17:48 |
| mavhc | risc os on arm has 600k DTP programs | 17:48 |
| johnx | mavhc, volunteering to do some optimizing? some rewriting? | 17:48 |
| AStorm | mavhc: make me a smaller web browser *now*! | 17:48 |
| johnx | does risc os have a web browser? | 17:48 |
| AStorm | fully featured | 17:48 |
| johnx | ^^ | 17:48 |
| AStorm | irc client can't get much smaller than irssi | 17:48 |
| mavhc | it has 6 | 17:48 |
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| AStorm | though xchat is fairly small | 17:48 |
| johnx | mavhc, and they show google maps well? | 17:49 |
| AStorm | we could slim the environment some | 17:49 |
| mavhc | only the firefox port I expect | 17:49 |
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| AStorm | mavhc: which probably eats as much ram as it does here ;P | 17:49 |
| johnx | alright, that's *more* bloated than browsers for arm linux | 17:49 |
| AStorm | we could use uclibc | 17:49 |
| AStorm | that should save quite a bit of ram | 17:49 |
| johnx | at least we have midori and tear | 17:49 |
| AStorm | :> | 17:49 |
| mavhc | did jaffa every get round to the netsurf port? | 17:50 |
| johnx | and even tablet browser UI + gecko is lots lighter than firefox | 17:50 |
| johnx | sooo, maybe the RiscOS guys should look at getting some less bloated apps... | 17:50 |
| AStorm | :P | 17:50 |
| AStorm | heck, fennec is the epitome of bloated | 17:50 |
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| AStorm | johnx: 64 MB just doesn't cut it for most modern software | 17:51 |
| mavhc | johnx: there's not up to date native apps, netsurf, which doesn't have JS, and a ff port | 17:52 |
| AStorm | even with a tiny desktop env | 17:52 |
| AStorm | kernel grabs, let's say, 8 MB | 17:52 |
| johnx | AStorm, yeah, the modern software is mostly ok. the web browser is the killer | 17:52 |
| AStorm | indeed, or maemo-mapper | 17:52 |
| johnx | mavhc, it's silly to talk about RiscOS vs Linux unless you're talking feature vs feature | 17:53 |
| AStorm | and the email app (excluding mutt) | 17:53 |
| mavhc | don't see why videocenter, canola, etc, can't be 1MB | 17:53 |
| AStorm | canola is Python | 17:53 |
| AStorm | if rewritten in C, using same libs, it'd be about 1/3 the size | 17:53 |
| AStorm | right now it's like, 20 MB? | 17:53 |
| Macer | shit | 17:53 |
| AStorm | and it has a lot of graphics | 17:53 |
| Macer | just went on a wii zelda binge | 17:53 |
| Macer | haha | 17:53 |
| Meizirkki | johnx: latest firefox is almost usable | 17:53 |
| AStorm | Meizirkki: on 64 MB? really? | 17:54 |
| AStorm | :P | 17:54 |
| Meizirkki | nope | 17:54 |
| Meizirkki | 128 | 17:54 |
| Macer | bought the game almost 6 months ago and decided to start playing it today | 17:54 |
| AStorm | fennec is | 17:54 |
| b-man | lol | 17:54 |
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| AStorm | (though rendering sometimes is slow, they have to improve the ui) | 17:54 |
| johnx | mavhc, I don't see how. even mplayer is 4.5MB... | 17:54 |
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| b-man | johnx: sorry to interupt but could you help me with this? http://pastebin.ca/1324532 | 17:55 |
| AStorm | johnx: that's true :P | 17:55 |
| AStorm | fitting canola UI + mplayer into 8 MB is certainly possible | 17:56 |
| AStorm | canola UI + scanner | 17:56 |
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| AStorm | assuming not overly large graphics | 17:56 |
| johnx | b-man, ls -a /usr/libexec/dev/sorce/deb/merinstaller | 17:57 |
| johnx | b-man, is that the folder that has the .bzr directory in it? | 17:57 |
| b-man | k | 17:57 |
| b-man | .bzr? - do i need to make one? | 17:57 |
| AStorm | no | 17:57 |
| AStorm | you use bzr clone | 17:57 |
| AStorm | unless you want to start a new repo | 17:58 |
| AStorm | then, bzr init afaicr | 17:58 |
| johnx | yeah that's right | 17:58 |
| johnx | what is bzr get an alias for? | 17:58 |
| * johnx RTFMs | 17:58 | |
| AStorm | bazaar | 17:58 |
| mavhc | graphics should be compressed in ram, any codecs should be loaded at playback time | 17:58 |
| AStorm | mavhc: compressed in ram? you must be joking | 17:58 |
| AStorm | blitting would eat tons of CPU | 17:58 |
| johnx | mavhc, and who is offering to do this work? | 17:59 |
| * b-man iss trying to update status for merinstaller | 17:59 | |
| AStorm | unless you have an unpacker in the graphics chip | 17:59 |
| b-man | re:is | 17:59 |
| AStorm | and we probably don't | 17:59 |
| AStorm | (excluding the unknown PowerVR) | 17:59 |
| mavhc | AStorm: just simple compression, still have uncompressed vram | 17:59 |
| AStorm | mavhc: and each blit is decompression | 17:59 |
| AStorm | slow. | 17:59 |
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| AStorm | it's a framebuffer, after all | 18:00 |
| mavhc | how often do you have to redraw it? | 18:00 |
| AStorm | often enough | 18:00 |
| johnx | mavhc, the screen? 30 times per second during an animation | 18:00 |
| mavhc | the UI isn't redrawn that often, only when the screen changes | 18:00 |
| AStorm | unless it's some specialized compression, you'd have to unpack whole images | 18:00 |
| AStorm | instead of compression, you could use vector UI | 18:01 |
| AStorm | e.g. SVG | 18:01 |
| johnx | mavhc, again: if these are such great ideas, why aren't the people who actually do the work using them? | 18:01 |
| AStorm | and cache renders | 18:01 |
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| AStorm | that would work just as fast | 18:01 |
| mavhc | because they only care if their app runs, not if it runs when 3 other apps are running? or because they want to optimise last, after all the features are complete | 18:01 |
| AStorm | mavhc: that, and it is no gain either | 18:02 |
| mavhc | cacheing renders means it's using the same amount of ram | 18:02 |
| AStorm | E libs support compressed images btw | 18:02 |
| AStorm | so does firefox (used for large images) | 18:02 |
| AStorm | X server might support them | 18:02 |
| mavhc | so it's not a crazy idea | 18:02 |
| AStorm | no idea if it does | 18:02 |
| AStorm | it's not, but it's not useful either | 18:03 |
| AStorm | why do you have to keep the images in memory? - so that X server can display them | 18:03 |
| AStorm | if X server doesn't support compression directly, you've a problem | 18:03 |
| mavhc | but we're not constantly redrawing the UI, there's no overlapping windows for a start | 18:03 |
| AStorm | ... | 18:03 |
| AStorm | there *are* overlapping windows. | 18:03 |
| AStorm | buttons are windows. | 18:03 |
| AStorm | song scrollbar is a window | 18:04 |
| AStorm | (think X) | 18:04 |
| mavhc | ok, there's no overlapping drawing | 18:04 |
| AStorm | at least X server caches fonts | 18:04 |
| AStorm | yes, so you don't actually have to pull them from the X server after you upload | 18:04 |
| AStorm | again, X server would have to support that compression thingy | 18:04 |
| johnx | b-man, http://pastebin.ca/1324547 from inside merinstaller I would be able to do bzr commit -m "my message" | 18:05 |
| keesj | http://fosdem.org/2009/schedule/events/emb_maemo_beagleboard | 18:05 |
| AStorm | firefox works around by uploading parts of image to X server if it's large | 18:05 |
| AStorm | (the visible ones) | 18:05 |
| b-man | johnx: ok | 18:05 |
| mavhc | it's just a side effect of running apps written for devices where ram use isn't a problem | 18:05 |
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| AStorm | no | 18:06 |
| AStorm | it's not. | 18:06 |
| AStorm | it's a side effect of having an X server w/o support for compressed formats | 18:06 |
| johnx | keesj, ah, very interesting. so the goal is to modify maemo as little as possible, correct? | 18:06 |
| AStorm | :P | 18:06 |
| AStorm | mavhc: be thankful that apps don't have to manage the images themselves | 18:06 |
| AStorm | so you end up with 2 copies | 18:07 |
| keesj | johnx: I don't really know, I just and mainly wonder about the development process out there | 18:07 |
| AStorm | keesj: fremantle should work on that out of the box | 18:07 |
| mavhc | so does the xserver just redraw images without talking to the app? the app just tells it what area of ram the image is in? | 18:07 |
| johnx | AStorm, define "out of the box" | 18:07 |
| AStorm | johnx: as in "almost the same hardware" | 18:07 |
| AStorm | :P | 18:07 |
| AStorm | mavhc: the app and X server throw around XIDs | 18:08 |
| johnx | "out of the box" != "some hacking required" :P | 18:08 |
| keesj | AStorm: and as "A safe change" | 18:08 |
| AStorm | johnx: it will "work" w/o hacking | 18:08 |
| AStorm | at least, most features | 18:08 |
| AStorm | the hardware is so similar. | 18:09 |
| mavhc | what if it's a vector art program redrawing? | 18:09 |
| AStorm | mavhc: so it's usually like: move this XID there | 18:09 |
| AStorm | mavhc: then it has to blit to a bitmap first | 18:10 |
| AStorm | or maybe use X drawing routines directly - but these are lacking in features | 18:10 |
| mavhc | so it's stored once in vram, and once in ram | 18:10 |
| AStorm | yes, so? you can use shm | 18:10 |
| AStorm | as in, XShm extension | 18:10 |
| AStorm | nah, even that won't work | 18:11 |
| AStorm | you'd have to be able to mmap the vram | 18:11 |
| johnx | keesj, is there any more info available on that project? | 18:11 |
| AStorm | or mmap X server memory | 18:11 |
| johnx | aaaah...just realized it was a presentation, not a project | 18:11 |
| johnx | durrr | 18:11 |
| AStorm | anyway, no zero-copy is possible then | 18:11 |
| * b-man really hopes he did not screw anything up at mer-committers in bzr :P | 18:11 | |
| mavhc | AStorm: but after rendering you could delete and rerender upon the next request for that rectangle? | 18:11 |
| johnx | b-man, in the worst case we can revert, so don't worry | 18:12 |
| AStorm | mavhc: yes | 18:12 |
| keesj | it's next week at fosdem. | 18:12 |
| b-man | hehe | 18:12 |
| AStorm | mavhc: obviously, at a CPU cost | 18:12 |
| johnx | b-man, plus, it doesn't end up on launchpad until your run bzr push ... | 18:12 |
| mavhc | it's all a cpu vs ram tradeoff | 18:12 |
| AStorm | a lot of CPU for a tiny bit of RAM. | 18:12 |
| b-man | ah, ok :) | 18:12 |
| AStorm | rendering, say, SVG uses a lot of CPU | 18:13 |
| AStorm | it's much cheaper to hold the image and modify it | 18:13 |
| mavhc | yes, but what about RLE compression? | 18:13 |
| mavhc | for the previous case of bitmap compression | 18:13 |
| AStorm | RLE of those bitmaps? | 18:13 |
| AStorm | again, if X server supports compressed formats | 18:13 |
| mavhc | the pre vector discussion | 18:13 |
| AStorm | and the gfx card does... | 18:13 |
| AStorm | otherwise it will have to be unpacked somewhere | 18:13 |
| mavhc | or you decompressed on the fly when asked for the rectangle, then deleted the decompressed version again | 18:14 |
| AStorm | also, modifying the image obviously will require a decompression | 18:14 |
| AStorm | yes, you could do that | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: did you push too? | 18:14 |
| mavhc | because in a general use case on maemo the UI isn't redrawn more often than once a second in a worst case | 18:14 |
| AStorm | no idea if decompressing all those PNGs will be fast enough | 18:14 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: i'm still having issues :P | 18:14 |
| johnx | mavhc, uhm, except when anyone is doing anything | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: like? | 18:15 |
| AStorm | and *especially* rendering SVGs won't be worth it | 18:15 |
| mavhc | johnx: eg? | 18:15 |
| AStorm | johnx: they're not changing the images | 18:15 |
| mavhc | svg is way too slow, but a simple vector format would be ok, it's what everyone did in 8bit days | 18:15 |
| AStorm | :) | 18:15 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: http://pastebin.ca/1324532 - and i can't find a way to fix this | 18:15 |
| johnx | AStorm, but he wants to delete the uncompressed version, and we don't have saveunders I think | 18:16 |
| mavhc | I'd rather have a media player that used 1MB of ram and didn't look pretty | 18:16 |
| AStorm | you don't? | 18:16 |
| AStorm | thus, our X server is unaccelerated | 18:16 |
| johnx | mavhc, then use mpd+ncmpc | 18:16 |
| AStorm | mavhc: problem solved? | 18:16 |
| AStorm | other than that, XMMS is smaller than canola | 18:16 |
| qwerty12 | Or mpc even =) | 18:16 |
| AStorm | what's more, you can drop the file walker process | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: first off, you put the merinstaller in /merinstaller, not /usr/libexec/dev/sorce/deb/merinstaller/ :) | 18:17 |
| johnx | or write your own mpd frontend in assembly with direct vector graphics printed to the framebuffer | 18:17 |
| mavhc | googles....well, I want a gui, but don't bother with album art and themes | 18:17 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: ok | 18:17 |
| AStorm | mavhc: again, we have a build of old xmms | 18:17 |
| AStorm | use it | 18:17 |
| johnx | mavhc, if you link in gtk+ and hildon you're already outside your memory requirements | 18:17 |
| AStorm | johnx: gtk+ is shared | 18:17 |
| AStorm | so is hildon | 18:17 |
| AStorm | oh, not xmms | 18:18 |
| AStorm | bmp rather | 18:18 |
| AStorm | or audacious | 18:18 |
| AStorm | xmms uses gtk+1.2, which will eat ram | 18:18 |
| AStorm | :P | 18:18 |
| johnx | yup :) | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: saw http://fosdem.org/2009/schedule/events/emb_maemo_beagleboard ? | 18:18 |
| johnx | yup. just a second ago | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | k | 18:19 |
| mavhc | not that I can get a consistant report of free ram, each applet seems to give a different number | 18:19 |
| johnx | try htop | 18:19 |
| mavhc | or ram used by an app | 18:19 |
| johnx | mavhc, well, it's somewhat complicated when you're talking about using shared libraries... | 18:19 |
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| mavhc | so I've found, can't they have their own entry? | 18:20 |
| AStorm | they do | 18:21 |
| AStorm | it's a point called SHR | 18:21 |
| AStorm | RES is the true memory usage | 18:21 |
| AStorm | VM is the allocation size | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: just wondering if they're suddenly making a side project to maemo targetting omap3 devices.. | 18:21 |
| AStorm | RES or RSS (resident set size) | 18:21 |
| AStorm | from my desktop: | 18:22 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, well, they internally use beagles for dev work, IIRC...so I would assume it's just a presentation on that | 18:22 |
| AStorm | 10624 astralst 21 1 120M 31980 12404 S 0.0 2.1 0:01.06 claws-mail | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah possibly | 18:23 |
| AStorm | 120M is VIRT, 32M is SHR, 12,5M is RSS | 18:23 |
| AStorm | oh, wrogn | 18:23 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, There were noises about telling other people how to use maemo5 on a beagle, earlier | 18:23 |
| AStorm | 120M is VIRT, 32M is RES and 12.5M is SHR | 18:23 |
| AStorm | :P | 18:23 |
| AStorm | this is x86 though | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: well, on the other hand, nokia seems to be starting to get some of the things i've pointed out way back in Maemo Reconstructed | 18:24 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, hmm? | 18:24 |
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| AStorm | sorting by RES on tablet: hildon-desktop, osso-xterm, hildon-input-method, browserd, osso-connectivity-ui-connd | 18:25 |
| AStorm | (largest first) | 18:25 |
| mavhc | how would I do that sort? | 18:25 |
| AStorm | and hildon-desktop is 16M RES | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: 'Sure, customize with busybox and such, but, | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | in the process of rebuilding the base system platform, release scripts | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | for bootstrapping a Maemo image, keep the system development open | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | (public SVN like with Hildon) - which would make developers happy in | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | terms of knowing how the base system is going to change - and adapt to | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | them before new OS releases come out. | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | (and such) | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | (http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-October/035409.html) | 18:25 |
| AStorm | mavhc: press < | 18:26 |
| AStorm | or > | 18:26 |
| mavhc | in htop? | 18:26 |
| AStorm | yes | 18:26 |
| AStorm | or click Setup on the bar | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | if they're starting to make it possible to easily adapt Maemo to hw platforms and bootstrap it | 18:26 |
| mavhc | first question, where's htop? | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:26 |
| AStorm | and pick there | 18:26 |
| AStorm | mavhc: in extras I think | 18:26 |
| mavhc | don't see it | 18:26 |
| AStorm | you can also use old top (from busybox) | 18:26 |
| AStorm | maybe extras-devel | 18:27 |
| AStorm | or that other devel repo | 18:27 |
| qwerty12 | http://maemo.org/development/tools/ | 18:27 |
| AStorm | note - hildon-desktop process counts most of your desktop applets | 18:27 |
| qwerty12 | Use apt-get to install it after adding that repo | 18:27 |
| mavhc | if the applets aren't displayed do they use ram? | 18:28 |
| AStorm | yes, they are running | 18:28 |
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| AStorm | bad design, eh? | 18:28 |
| mavhc | probably half of my problem then | 18:28 |
| AStorm | unlikely | 18:28 |
| AStorm | see, the heaviest one I have is the omweather | 18:29 |
| AStorm | because of nice gfx | 18:29 |
| mavhc | is it possible to see what each applet is using? | 18:29 |
| AStorm | and most of the applets are client rendered | 18:29 |
| AStorm | hmm, no, I don't think so | 18:29 |
| AStorm | might show as threads, let me check | 18:30 |
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| AStorm | nah, you won't know which one's which | 18:31 |
| mavhc | and if the only way to remove them is to uninstall that's going to be annoying | 18:31 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, right now I think they're very focused on getting fremantle out of the door. And they did talk about fremantle on beagleboards a while ago I know...so I think it's more about filling in the blanks on a one-off nature rather than becoming really portable... | 18:31 |
| AStorm | no, just uncheck them | 18:31 |
| AStorm | remove them from the desktop and/or tray | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, true - but still, if they're even distributing how to put maemo on another device, is a plus | 18:32 |
| AStorm | it's configurable in the control panel and desktop menu | 18:32 |
| mavhc | that's what I meant by not displayed | 18:32 |
| mavhc | did you mean on the desktop, but covered by another window? | 18:32 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, agreed. maybe they'll be more willing to talk right after fremantle is out the door, before the heavy work for hermatatatan starts | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 18:33 |
| AStorm | mavhc: they took like, all, 300 KB though | 18:33 |
| AStorm | so don't even bother | 18:33 |
| AStorm | unless one of your applets is running python :P | 18:33 |
| johnx | also, the psion teklogix netbook pro looks like an interesting device :) | 18:33 |
| AStorm | (then python will show in process list) | 18:33 |
| AStorm | mavhc: I guess hildon-desktop is so large, because it caches all the menu bitmaps | 18:35 |
| AStorm | that would be a nasty performance problem | 18:35 |
| AStorm | no other reason why it should take 16 MB | 18:35 |
| mavhc | menu bitmaps = the corners etc, or all the text too? | 18:36 |
| AStorm | maybe... maybe if it holds the uncompressed wallpaper | 18:36 |
| AStorm | mavhc: no, as in, app icons | 18:36 |
| AStorm | mine hildon-desktop just crashed and was returned to the defaults | 18:37 |
| AStorm | it eats 14,8 MB | 18:37 |
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| mavhc | what bit depth is the wallpaper? | 18:37 |
| johnx | AStorm, huh. kernel build failed. sorry, not going to worry about it for tonight | 18:37 |
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| AStorm | mavhc: unimportant, it doesn't take much ram as I checked | 18:38 |
| mavhc | at least with no swap it can't swap out apps I'm using, unlike windows | 18:39 |
| AStorm | it's just... heavy on its own | 18:39 |
| AStorm | mavhc: then enable swap, eh/ | 18:39 |
| AStorm | you can have a swap file | 18:40 |
| AStorm | there's even an utility in control panel | 18:40 |
| mavhc | and wear out my precious SD card? | 18:40 |
| johnx | yes | 18:40 |
| AStorm | mavhc: yes, SD cards are cheap | 18:40 |
| johnx | maybe you'll kill your $10 SD card in 3 years instead of losing it in 4 years | 18:40 |
| AStorm | mhm | 18:40 |
| AStorm | though, failures of swap files are sometimes nefarious crashes | 18:41 |
| AStorm | dataloss might be expensive ;P | 18:41 |
| AStorm | MTBF is much larger though than 5 years | 18:41 |
| AStorm | because swap is actually written to rarely | 18:41 |
| johnx | depends on 'swappiness' | 18:41 |
| AStorm | johnx: as I mentioned, you don't need the kernel build | 18:42 |
| AStorm | to build the module :) | 18:42 |
| AStorm | try it | 18:42 |
| johnx | sorry, I moved on to something else | 18:42 |
| AStorm | meh :/ | 18:42 |
| johnx | I'll get back to it eventually | 18:42 |
| johnx | if you want it done faster then just install scratchbox... | 18:42 |
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| AStorm | johnx: and you'll send me a DVD with Ubuntu on it | 18:45 |
| johnx | why would I send you an ubuntu cd so you can work on your own project? | 18:45 |
| AStorm | setting up sbox is time consuming and requires full attention | 18:45 |
| johnx | will you send me an n810 so I can test it with mer? | 18:46 |
| johnx | also: the ubuntu guys will send you a free cd. just ask them | 18:46 |
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| qwerty12 | AStorm, I've got compcache 0.5 & 0.5.1 compiled successfully against nokia 2.6.21. 0.5.1 was the result of dodgy patching by me (diffed from 0.5). http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/compcache/ | 18:52 |
| pupnik | i wish comanche would be open-sourced | 18:53 |
| johnx | heh :) somehow I figured it would this is what would happen | 18:53 |
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| AStorm | qwerty12: :D again | 19:03 |
| AStorm | you rock man | 19:03 |
| AStorm | time for testing | 19:03 |
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| qwerty12 | :) | 19:03 |
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| AStorm | btw, does the new wifi driver support packet injection? | 19:04 |
| AStorm | aircrack-ng would be too good to pass :> | 19:05 |
| qwerty12 | It uses mac80211 which I believe allows packet injection | 19:05 |
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| AStorm | qwerty12: where else except initfs can I put kernel modules? (dir) | 19:07 |
| qwerty12 | /lib/modules/`uname -r` on rootfs but you will have to insmod manually still | 19:08 |
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| AStorm | doesn't exist, meh | 19:09 |
| johnx | yup :) | 19:09 |
| AStorm | that's why I asked | 19:10 |
| johnx | it doesn't really matter where you put it on the rootfs | 19:10 |
| AStorm | ok then | 19:10 |
| AStorm | johnx: it would if I installed real module-init-tools | 19:10 |
| johnx | hmm...is there a maemo package of that? | 19:10 |
| qwerty12 | busybox would probably conflict with it anyway | 19:11 |
| AStorm | yes, there is, and yes, busybox conflicts with it | 19:11 |
| AStorm | but who cares about conflicts :P | 19:12 |
| johnx | oh me! *raises his hand* | 19:12 |
| AStorm | nokia would do us a lot of good if it just installed normal utils | 19:13 |
| johnx | hence mer | 19:13 |
| AStorm | mhm | 19:13 |
| RST38h | AStorm: that would be a step away from the normal procedure | 19:14 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: it's not really embedded enough | 19:14 |
| AStorm | no need for busybox | 19:14 |
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| AStorm | and would make for less porting | 19:17 |
| benson | Interesting detail: the busybox in initfs is bigger than the one in the rootfs. | 19:19 |
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| benson | And it has color ls, for example. | 19:19 |
| qwerty12 | It also has better help | 19:19 |
| * benson compares feature lists... | 19:19 | |
| AStorm | different team? | 19:19 |
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| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: fell and broke your leg? ;) | 19:41 |
| Meizirkki | luckily not :) | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | any luck on installer? | 19:42 |
| Meizirkki | yep, and 0.7 works well | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | good | 19:42 |
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| Meizirkki | i removed network-manager btw | 19:43 |
| Meizirkki | i prefer wifi-radar | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | fair enough :) | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | i'm going to release very soon so :P | 19:44 |
| johnx | w00! | 19:44 |
| * johnx is already digging in to zaurus pre-reqs | 19:44 | |
| * Stskeeps is not a fan of scratchbox atm | 19:45 | |
| johnx | you two fighting again? | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | libkrb requiring libc6 >= 2.9 | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | guess which we're on, 2.8 | 19:46 |
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| johnx | aaah, in sb | 19:47 |
| johnx | hmm | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | well, for the rootstrap i generate for SB | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | have to revert to v8 i guess | 19:47 |
| johnx | alright, 'night all | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | nini | 19:58 |
| * Stskeeps sends off post | 19:58 | |
| * qwerty12 hits the auto refresh button | 19:58 | |
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| benson | re: busyboxes, there are 86 commands in common, 27 unique to the initfs version, and 20 unique to the rootfs version. | 20:02 |
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| benson | Why these featuresets aren't merged and a single binary used is beyond me... | 20:02 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, screenshot02.png isn't displaying :) | 20:08 |
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| Stskeeps | hmmm. | 20:08 |
| Stskeeps | lemme see | 20:09 |
| Stskeeps | fixed | 20:10 |
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| Stskeeps | Mer 0.7 release: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26567 | 20:10 |
| Stskeeps | slightly more user friendly to install, now :) | 20:11 |
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| Stskeeps | evening andre___ | 20:13 |
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| andre___ | hej hej | 20:15 |
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| b-man | (random information) - i just released a new version of nit-bootmenu-compat for ubuntu jaunty and i created a new error screen; http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/incompatible-bootmenu.jpg - take a look :) | 21:04 |
| oli | hey, can I install clear maemo on a sd card? | 21:06 |
| b-man | you mean clone? - there shuld be instructions under general on itt ;) | 21:07 |
| oli | i've seen that - but i want a clear system - not a clone | 21:07 |
| b-man | hmm | 21:07 |
| woglinde | clear? | 21:08 |
| oli | ooops, i played with debian and now maemo boots only to the end of a blue bar and freezes... | 21:08 |
| qwerty12_N800 | oli, have any experience with mtd2block modules? | 21:08 |
| oli | qwerty12_N800: no. | 21:08 |
| oli | what do i have to do to fix it? ;p | 21:10 |
| * b-man thinks about creating a stand-alone repository for ubuntu to keep things sain | 21:11 | |
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| oli | Do I have to reflash now? | 21:12 |
| b-man | most likely :( | 21:12 |
| oli | well.. ok. But i have no idea how did it happen. | 21:13 |
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| b-man | how were you messing with debian? :) | 21:13 |
| oli | i set root device to mmc, tested it, it crashed on rebooting so i pulled battery out | 21:14 |
| b-man | ouch | 21:14 |
| oli | after thet i've set root dev to flash and now blue bar stops at the end | 21:14 |
| oli | was there any better thing to do on crash at a black screen? ;p | 21:15 |
| b-man | the jffs2 filesysm might have gotten damaged | 21:15 |
| oli | but i could't do anything | 21:16 |
| b-man | re: filesystem | 21:16 |
| wazd | whoa, I don't think that Pandora is pocketable, it's toooo thick imho | 21:16 |
| oli | b-man: i have to do a full flash or only partial? | 21:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | It's also shit to most people because you can't buy with a CC :P | 21:16 |
| b-man | oil; probibly a full flash ;p | 21:17 |
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| benson | wazd:pffftt... it's only 27mm thick. | 21:17 |
| oli | b-man: ok, thanks | 21:18 |
| benson | Pocketable, if it's the only thing in that pocket. | 21:18 |
| wazd | benson: oh my ))) | 21:18 |
| wazd | benson: "only"?)) | 21:18 |
| wazd | benson: thick part of n800 is 23 | 21:19 |
| benson | Yep, 29 is no problem. | 21:19 |
| RST38h | qwerty: and it also has a problem of not being in existance yet | 21:20 |
| benson | (It doesn't need a case, since it's a clamshell, so you save a couple mm there.) | 21:20 |
| RST38h | yes, I admit that for some REALLY dedicated people it is not a problem at all though | 21:20 |
| wazd | benson: well, I don't have any case for my n800 :) But I've just visually added 5mm to n800... oh my oh my) | 21:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, yes, I could see that as a bigger problem :/. nice con they've got setup though | 21:21 |
| Proteous | pfff, I can pocket my vaio P | 21:21 |
| wazd | Proteous: you actually have one?) | 21:22 |
| Proteous | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/01/vaio-p-pockets-1.jpg | 21:22 |
| glass | qwerty12_N800: huh can't buy pandora with a cc? | 21:22 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Never underestimate the power of ignorance :) | 21:22 |
| RST38h | (in other words, it does not have to be a con job :)) | 21:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | glass, yep, don't have a link but they aren't accepting them atm :/ | 21:22 |
| glass | qwerty12_N800: are they evading taxes or what? | 21:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, indeed :) | 21:23 |
| RST38h | glass: they are evading chargebacks | 21:23 |
| glass | RST38h: thats the other thing i thought of | 21:24 |
| glass | RST38h: but that smells like keeping the money despite the project crashing | 21:24 |
| benson | Proteous: Full article, with more pictures -- the last one is best: | 21:24 |
| benson | http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/12/vaio-p-doesnt-have-nothin-on-these-other-awesome-pocket-friend/ | 21:24 |
| Proteous | yeah | 21:24 |
| Proteous | or this one from the comments: http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/dqnplus/imgs/0/7/07548f84.jpg | 21:24 |
| wazd | Pandora is a wonderful piece of hardware with "why-so-bad?!" design | 21:25 |
| glass | dunno, i kinda like the design, i'd like all those buttons | 21:25 |
| glass | i just don't like the vapo smell.. | 21:25 |
| Proteous | LETS PUT WHITE BUTTONS ALL OVER THE FUXIN PLACE!!!! | 21:25 |
| glass | or the amateur smell | 21:25 |
| RST38h | wazd: it is an omap3 reference design with an ugly case quickly modeled out of cardboard | 21:25 |
| wazd | I think buttons will be black someday) | 21:26 |
| benson | The design doesn't bother me. I don't think the buttons are white in the final version. | 21:26 |
| glass | it would be in toy use for me anyways | 21:26 |
| RST38h | the final version will be pink and have horns instead of buttons | 21:26 |
| glass | hello kitty | 21:26 |
| benson | I | 21:26 |
| wazd | http://www.gp32x.de/pandorasneak.jpg | 21:26 |
| RST38h | glass: the whole thing looks very much like Optimus Maximus | 21:26 |
| wazd | thats the final mockup I guess | 21:26 |
| glass | what bothers me about is the fanboyz, thinking of it as the jesusdevice | 21:26 |
| benson | I generally don't care much about design, but I'd draw the line at hello kitty. | 21:27 |
| lcuk | people who leave computers in their back pockets will end up running cracked software no matter whether they are pirates or not | 21:27 |
| RST38h | glass: a bunch of guys suddenly get an idea that they can design and produce hardware | 21:27 |
| Proteous | I just don't really get the vertical then horizontal across the top keyboard buttons | 21:27 |
| lcuk | its just a recipe for disaster | 21:27 |
| Proteous | they keypad is cool | 21:27 |
| Proteous | then they just went too far | 21:27 |
| glass | RST38h: "hey we can haz order ref boards" | 21:27 |
| RST38h | glass: they try - and fail, documenting their clusterfuck in their blog for everyone to see | 21:27 |
| glass | RST38h: i'd have more faith in them if they'd just have bought the manufacturing from some chinese nutjobs | 21:28 |
| RST38h | glass: I am absolutely sure they did | 21:28 |
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| RST38h | glass: but they have chosen their chinese nutjobs badly. | 21:28 |
| glass | RST38h: well the crap that one fanboy told me was that the "parts were chosen for quality" and that some of the plastics were from usa etc | 21:28 |
| glass | RST38h: i haven't followed their blog really | 21:29 |
| wazd | Well, actually it's acceptable design but... speaker grid?! Guys, hello, it's 21st century!) | 21:29 |
| RST38h | glass: Chinese have no problem ordering some parts from the US | 21:29 |
| lcuk | forgive me for being a n00b, but what would you cover a speaker with? | 21:29 |
| pupnik | melted lard? | 21:30 |
| wazd | well, not that "early 90s" stuff for sure) | 21:30 |
| Phantom | timeless: Hi, do you remember yesterday's talk about chinook package manager? | 21:30 |
| glass | RST38h: it was told in a fashion that they were going to assemble it themselfs | 21:30 |
| lcuk | might help with cooking | 21:30 |
| timeless | vaguely | 21:30 |
| RST38h | glass: further confirms my original suspicion that they have never done it | 21:30 |
| roope | It's been interesting to follow the Pandora project thingy. I guess it proves that if it would be so easy, everybody would be doing it. | 21:31 |
| Phantom | Today I reflashed the device with latest release of diablo. | 21:31 |
| lcuk | +1 roope | 21:31 |
| glass | RST38h: yeah thats why it sounded amateurish and stupid, the fanboy who told me this didn't think of it as weird which is why i labeled him fanoy in my puny mind | 21:31 |
| RST38h | roope: It is not very hard but you have to have experience doing it | 21:31 |
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| RST38h | roppe: It basicalyl comes down to choosing the right Chinese or Taiwanese design house and working with them, clearly stating what you want | 21:32 |
| oli | b-man: epic win! | 21:32 |
| roope | Well, yes. It's like brain surgery. It's not very hard if you have experience doing it. :) | 21:32 |
| b-man | oil: hehe | 21:32 |
| * lcuk hands roope a hammer and chisel | 21:32 | |
| lcuk | you should be able to make a good start with those :D | 21:32 |
| RST38h | roope: But you have to know whom to choose and have exprience working with these guys | 21:32 |
| roope | but yes, there are many asian subcontractors where you can get pretty much the whole package. | 21:32 |
| oli | b-man: i've left it (with battery) for 10 minutes, then ./flasher-3.0-static --set-root-device flash -R , and it seems to work well ;) | 21:33 |
| b-man | sweet ;) | 21:33 |
| glass | roope: point being that they didn't even choose teh complete package way which would have been easiest | 21:33 |
| Phantom | At first time, package manager lauched and showed me list of installed apps. Then it checked for updated and just after this check it repeated same nonsense in log as chinook did before. No apps installed, no available repos really working. I can't figure out what it wants from me in order to just work... | 21:33 |
| oli | the only problem with n800 which i hadn't solved yet is setting a SIP account | 21:33 |
| glass | -teh+the | 21:33 |
| wazd | http://www.gp32x.de/sneak3.jpg | 21:34 |
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| wazd | omg, 3.5mm jack on the side! | 21:34 |
| wazd | why?! | 21:34 |
| roope | That's... at least you cannot complain about the lack of hard keys there. ;) | 21:34 |
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| lcuk | i thought it could be flipped slate style? | 21:34 |
| Livingroom | wazd: wtf is that? a dvd player with a keyboard? | 21:34 |
| lcuk | the preview there looks like its laptop only | 21:34 |
| roope | Interesting placement for the Del button. | 21:34 |
| benson | wazd: as opposed to? | 21:34 |
| * b-man is mesmerised by the pandora picture | 21:35 | |
| benson | 2.5mm is less widely available... | 21:35 |
| lcuk | and odd lack of esc key without a double press | 21:35 |
| wazd | benson: no, why on the front? | 21:35 |
| RST38h | wazd: this does not look like "high quality plastics from US" =) | 21:35 |
| b-man | lcuk, wazd: did you see my new error screen btw? :) | 21:36 |
| RST38h | looks like a plastic fishing bait box, in fact | 21:36 |
| lcuk | RST38h, high quality fake rendered plastics, the electrons originated in the US | 21:36 |
| timeless | hey, has anyone here had trouble using mer's menus in vmware? | 21:36 |
| wazd | benson: Place on the side is much better for "audio player in the pocket" mode | 21:36 |
| timeless | (the task launcher one) | 21:36 |
| benson | wazd: it has to be front or back; sides would interfere with gaming grip. | 21:36 |
| benson | wazd: true that. | 21:37 |
| Livingroom | WOOOT | 21:37 |
| Livingroom | i just booted windows 3.11 on my n800. | 21:37 |
| benson | Maybe at the back edge of the side... | 21:37 |
| lcuk | no b-man give us a blast | 21:37 |
| wazd | benson: now you'll break your 100$ headphones jack with this :( | 21:37 |
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| b-man | lcuk, wazd; http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/incompatible-bootmenu.jpg | 21:37 |
| wazd | b-man: fonts are screwed up\ | 21:38 |
| lcuk | "this tablet will self destruct in 15 seconds" | 21:38 |
| benson | Heheh. I don't have any phones worth more than $20, and even so I'd spend $5 on a 3" pigtail to take the abuse. | 21:38 |
| b-man | hehe | 21:38 |
| lcuk | wrong aspect, but the contrast of the entire screen is right | 21:38 |
| wazd | b-man: use special narrow fonts or just use normal) | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | i like wazds shark better | 21:38 |
| lcuk | i bet that looks good on device | 21:38 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: that's for ubuntu I guess | 21:39 |
| mavhc | get headphones with a corner jack | 21:39 |
| wazd | mavhc: that sounds like Apple) | 21:39 |
| glass | i have to change cord on my headphones every few months | 21:39 |
| lcuk | b-man, could you do me a blank 800*480 of the background please? :D i would like it for my desktop (maybe with a blue hint) | 21:39 |
| benson | Still harder on them... I'm with wazd now that I think about pocketage. | 21:39 |
| glass | a little solder job.. using them on ipod and rolling the cord on it breaks it | 21:39 |
| b-man | lcuk; shure | 21:39 |
| lcuk | :D excellent | 21:40 |
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| b-man | hold on... | 21:40 |
| lcuk | though the color i could hint as required | 21:40 |
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| lcuk | im already changing title hues for different apps | 21:40 |
| b-man | ok, i'll have it up in 5-10 minutes then ;) | 21:40 |
| mavhc | wazd: no, that would be: buy our headphones that need a special chip in to even play audio via our device, btw the chip costs nothing but licencing fees | 21:40 |
| lcuk | b-man, no problem, leave it greyscale, ill tint it at runtime | 21:41 |
| lcuk | could even make it an alpha channel | 21:41 |
| b-man | ok :) | 21:41 |
| b-man | lcuk: http://www.bman.maemobox.org/intelmac_gray.jpg | 21:44 |
| lcuk | thanks :) | 21:44 |
| b-man | no problem ;) | 21:45 |
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| wazd | and the worst thing that curent pandora's keyboard layout is almost localizable | 21:47 |
| wazd | no space for descent cyrilic or other layouts :( | 21:47 |
| * timeless wonders if osso-backup is available | 21:48 | |
| roope | yeah. nobody in scandinavia wants to buy a device without äö. | 21:48 |
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| timeless | nobody outside scandinavia would want to buy a device made by a company which includes them | 21:48 |
| oli | roope: you've got separate keys for such characters? | 21:49 |
| * timeless grumbles notably in roope's direction | 21:49 | |
| timeless | oli: yes | 21:49 |
| timeless | they ruin the right edge of the keyboard for them | 21:49 |
| timeless | total waste of good ergonomics | 21:49 |
| timeless | roope: speaking of which | 21:49 |
| timeless | i just tried an HTC earlier today | 21:49 |
| timeless | they stuck the space key where it belongs | 21:49 |
| timeless | remind me to get an HTC and whack it over the head of someone @nokia | 21:50 |
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| suihkulokki | the HTC models I tried at verkkokauppa.com ~2y ago did not have very impressive qwerty | 21:51 |
| timeless | suihkulokki: visit me tomorrow and i'll explain | 21:51 |
| jmesquita | Guys, I have some problems compiling my application for maemo. Is this the right place to ask dev questions? | 21:51 |
| timeless | jmesquita: there's here, or a mailing list | 21:52 |
| timeless | give it a shot | 21:52 |
| timeless | use a pastebin if you need a bunch of lines | 21:52 |
| jmesquita | timeless: I have a Qt application and I have a linking problem | 21:52 |
| wazd | If only pandora guys invested some time in sexiness - it would be total hell on earth | 21:52 |
| jmesquita | timeless: It all compiles fine, but linking has not been good | 21:52 |
| jmesquita | timeless: Let me pastebin the output | 21:53 |
| woglinde | jmesquita whats the problem? | 21:53 |
| wazd | If you can't do something sexy - copy something sexy :) | 21:53 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: I am not really sure. I am linking against a lib that dependes on portaudio | 21:53 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: But it compiles fine and the lib examples also work fine | 21:54 |
| woglinde | the pastebin | 21:54 |
| woglinde | then | 21:54 |
| GAN800 | wazd, they intentionally made it look like shit. | 21:54 |
| timeless | note that some things aren't quite as transitive as you might want | 21:54 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: I mean, the PC version compiles on all 3 OSs and work fine on all 3 OSs | 21:54 |
| timeless | why are all the games in mer 77+mb? | 21:54 |
| timeless | is it going to install KDE for me? | 21:54 |
| wazd | GAN800: well, honestly it doesn't have worst look in the world, but it's kinda "oldskool" or something | 21:55 |
| jmesquita | http://pastebin.com/m3a889e8f | 21:56 |
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| timeless | jmesquita: did ou try linking against that sound lib? | 21:57 |
| jmesquita | timeless: -lportaudio-i686-pc-linux-gnu | 21:57 |
| jmesquita | timeless: Thats supposed to be the sound lib | 21:57 |
| woglinde | jmesquita you need to linka gainst the alsablib | 21:57 |
| timeless | jmesquita: you should probably look at pkgconfig | 21:58 |
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| timeless | in theory, it's supposed to solve this problem for you | 21:58 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: Erm... I dont really understand why this is not compiling in sbox if it does compile on any other system | 21:59 |
| Livingroom | hey guys, anyone ever use dosbox to install Win95 on the N800? | 21:59 |
| jmesquita | timeless: Let me take a look at that | 21:59 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: -l what? | 21:59 |
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| * RST38h suggested Livingroom to install Windows about 13 hours ago | 22:00 | |
| woglinde | -lasound | 22:00 |
| Livingroom | hey RST, i did | 22:00 |
| Livingroom | that whole thing i went through was just so i could install win 3.11 on dosbox. it works! yay. | 22:00 |
| woglinde | jmesquita please look if libasound2 is installed | 22:00 |
| timeless | woglinde: should be pretty hard to hvave compiled successfully otherwise | 22:01 |
| * jmesquita is looking at the system right now | 22:01 | |
| timeless | presumably he has libasound2-dev too | 22:01 |
| woglinde | timeless depends | 22:01 |
| jmesquita | I do have both | 22:02 |
| jmesquita | -dev and lib... | 22:02 |
| mavhc | Livingroom: just use vnc/rdp and pretend you did | 22:02 |
| Livingroom | but pretending is for fairies. | 22:03 |
| woglinde | -lasound2 should do | 22:03 |
| Livingroom | i want to do it, and say i did it: and behold, i shall be the greatest in the land; the geekiest individual in central TN. | 22:03 |
| woglinde | args asound | 22:03 |
| jmesquita | wonYep!!! | 22:03 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: It did | 22:03 |
| woglinde | *g* | 22:03 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: I dont really get why in regular linux distros I dont have to link explicitly against that | 22:04 |
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| jmesquita | woglinde: Is there a way to test this on the device without making a real package? | 22:06 |
| woglinde | copy the binary over | 22:06 |
| timeless | jmesquita: you're not going to want to, but nothing prevents you | 22:06 |
| woglinde | but I suggest you compile it first with scratchbox arm | 22:07 |
| timeless | besides you just built x86, not arm | 22:07 |
| timeless | personally, i'd try it out in a vmware-x86 :) | 22:07 |
| jmesquita | timeless: Right, I need to change the target to ARMEL | 22:07 |
| jmesquita | sorry guys, I am very new to maemo and sbox | 22:07 |
| jmesquita | And I just wanted a proof of concept here. Have my softphone run on one of these babies | 22:08 |
| jmesquita | Let me get back to the books then and understand how to change sbox to armel and others ... | 22:09 |
| lcuk | jmesquita, have you got qt libs on your device yet | 22:09 |
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| woglinde | lcuk he will install them | 22:10 |
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| jmesquita | lcuk: No, not yet | 22:11 |
| jmesquita | But I saw that all I have to do is install the repo on the website | 22:11 |
| woglinde | devel-extras | 22:11 |
| lcuk | fair enough :) | 22:11 |
| jmesquita | Yep.. :) | 22:12 |
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| jmesquita | woglinde: All I have to do is sb_menu and select the new target? | 22:12 |
| lcuk | can mer run qt stuff? | 22:12 |
| woglinde | jmesquita for scratchbox yes | 22:12 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: And of course recompile it | 22:13 |
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| woglinde | jmesquita then you have to activate devel-extras in /etc/apt/sources | 22:13 |
| woglinde | and install the qtlibs | 22:13 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: Right, the same process I did for x86 | 22:14 |
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| jmesquita | woglinde: I get an error when running sb-menu | 22:16 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: Should I run it from outside sbox? | 22:16 |
| woglinde | which one? | 22:16 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: That I must close other sessions | 22:17 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: But I have no other sessions logged ... | 22:17 |
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| woglinde | hit the killall-prozesses entry | 22:17 |
| woglinde | is the last one | 22:17 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: Let me try | 22:17 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: Yep, that did the trick | 22:18 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: Thanks | 22:18 |
| timeless | jmesquita: you'll really want pkgconfig :) | 22:19 |
| RST38h | http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F02%2F01%2F1931216&from=rss <=== Evil, EVIL! | 22:19 |
| jmesquita | timeless: I took a look at it | 22:19 |
| jmesquita | timeless: And yes, I will need that eventualy | 22:19 |
| jmesquita | eventually | 22:20 |
| jmesquita | timeless: Thanks for the tip | 22:20 |
| timeless | personally i avoid it, but you want to use it as soon as possible | 22:20 |
| timeless | it's really supposed to make life easier | 22:20 |
| * timeless preaches w/o practicing | 22:20 | |
| jmesquita | timeless: Ahahaha, well, someone have to have the spare time, right? | 22:21 |
| timeless | yeah, if i practiced everything i preached, i'd never get anything i wanted to done :( | 22:22 |
| jmesquita | timeless: You'll end up like me. Managing a dev team | 22:22 |
| woglinde | jmesquita hehe | 22:23 |
| timeless | i'm happy to consult for a couple of dev teams | 22:23 |
| woglinde | but this gives more money | 22:23 |
| timeless | i don't like the responsibility of being a manager: ) | 22:23 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: Well, lets say that managing a team is the closest I can get to developing | 22:25 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: That makes me happy | 22:25 |
| jmesquita | woglinde: I am not bright enough to be the developer | 22:25 |
| * timeless cries | 22:27 | |
| timeless | capture-root doesn't work w/ mer | 22:27 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: are you still here? - i'm trying to create a repository on bman.maemobox.org and i was wondering whare i could find a good guide on how to do it. | 22:28 |
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| * b-man trys googling | 22:29 | |
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| * b-man starts installing repository management software in ubuntu | 22:44 | |
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| * timeless tries to use application manager to install debhelper and gettext | 22:46 | |
| * timeless considers giving up | 22:46 | |
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| b-man | hehe | 22:47 |
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| timeless | it says 'updating' | 22:47 |
| * qwerty12_N800 has dpkg-dev, quilt & debhelper installed in mer via apt-get | 22:47 | |
| timeless | qwerty: yeah, i'm going to kill app manager and use apt-get | 22:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Make sure to kill apt-worker too :) | 22:48 |
| timeless | why? | 22:49 |
| * timeless just killed the lock | 22:49 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | apt-worker is h-a-m's annoying backend... | 22:50 |
| timeless | does mer include diablo's man killer? | 22:50 |
| RST38h | Hehe, poor watcom cpp died on my mighty macros | 22:50 |
| woglinde | rst *g* | 22:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, used to | 22:50 |
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| * RST38h feels evil now | 22:51 | |
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| RST38h | Shit, I do not have any other compiler | 22:56 |
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| timeless | err | 22:59 |
| timeless | svn-buildpackage depends on xulrunner-1.9 | 22:59 |
| * timeless wonders why | 22:59 | |
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| AStorm | qwerty12_N800: uhoh | 23:19 |
| AStorm | I got pwnd by busybox swapon | 23:19 |
| AStorm | how can I set swap priority w/o swapon supporting it? :P | 23:20 |
| qwerty12_N800 | replace swapon with a real one? :) | 23:20 |
| AStorm | yeah fun | 23:20 |
| AStorm | that means installing util-linux | 23:20 |
| AStorm | not yet | 23:20 |
| AStorm | I'd rather test Mer then | 23:20 |
| AStorm | do you have a separate swapon app? | 23:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | nah, replace the binary directly. swapon is just a symlink to busybox. | 23:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yer, give me 5 | 23:21 |
| AStorm | btw, lower prio comes first, or higher? | 23:22 |
| AStorm | seems that lower takes precedence... | 23:22 |
| AStorm | that means, latest swap added | 23:22 |
| AStorm | wrong | 23:25 |
| AStorm | higher prio takes precedence | 23:25 |
| AStorm | checked :P | 23:25 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Wish process priority was like that :) | 23:25 |
| AStorm | your kernel module is suck | 23:26 |
| AStorm | weirdness happened | 23:27 |
| AStorm | probably memory corruption | 23:27 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I just compiled them straight ;). that said, 0.5.1 offers no advantages over 0.5 on 2.6.21 | 23:27 |
| AStorm | btw, why don't lzo1x_* don't want to load, while xvmalloc and compcache did? | 23:27 |
| AStorm | the lzo modules complain about some missing symbol I guess | 23:28 |
| AStorm | I'll better reboot and check dmesg | 23:28 |
| AStorm | do you have the lzo modules loaded? | 23:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I never tested the modules... lemme try them now | 23:29 |
| AStorm | qwerty12_N800: while you're on the run, could you localegen me pl_PL.UTF-8 locale? | 23:31 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | I have localepurge on the tablet, dunno if it's still possible | 23:31 |
| AStorm | it's not related at all | 23:32 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | "lzo1x_compress: exports duplicate symbol lzo1x_1_compress (owned by kernel)" | 23:33 |
| AStorm | mhm | 23:33 |
| AStorm | yeah, probably jffs2 uses that | 23:33 |
| AStorm | ;P | 23:34 |
| AStorm | so, please do build against proper .config kernel | 23:34 |
| AStorm | it may crash otherwise | 23:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | it was built against nokia_2420_defconfig :/, any other suggestions? | 23:34 |
| AStorm | that defconfig is bollocks | 23:35 |
| AStorm | set JFFS2 to built-in | 23:35 |
| AStorm | and all the compressors | 23:35 |
| AStorm | might help | 23:35 |
| AStorm | I mean, actually, the defconfig isn't the config used by Nokia stock kernel build | 23:36 |
| AStorm | qwerty12_N800: so, when will I get my rebuild? :) | 23:37 |
| qwerty12_N800 | tomorrow :) | 23:38 |
| t_s_o | heh, im still somewhat surprised when it comes to how much of a impact changing SD cards had on idle battery use | 23:38 |
| qwerty12_N800 | AStorm, but I would have thought that nokia_2420_defconfig would already have jffs2 built in? | 23:39 |
| RST38h | http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00ptwqwq.jpg | 23:39 |
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| tank-man | t_s_o, probably from the meta layer crawler | 23:40 |
| AStorm | qwerty12_N800: it doesn't apparently | 23:40 |
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| AStorm | qwerty12_N800: ooh, my bad | 23:42 |
| AStorm | I just allocated 1/2 of device memory last time | 23:42 |
| AStorm | obviously, it could've crashed all stuff ;P | 23:42 |
| t_s_o | tank-man: that one is not running. or at least should not be, as i have it as not starting at boot | 23:43 |
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| woglinde | re jmesquita | 23:43 |
| tank-man | yea last time i updated, the crawler was running again | 23:44 |
| t_s_o | heh, aware of that happening, but i make it a habit of changing that after a update | 23:44 |
| AStorm | qwerty12_N800: it seems to work with size = default (31692) | 23:44 |
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| AStorm | size = 65535 crashed ;P | 23:45 |
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| AStorm | probably OOM-killed a lot of stuff | 23:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | interesting :) | 23:45 |
| AStorm | btw, canola loaded a tiny bit faster | 23:45 |
| AStorm | like, 1s | 23:46 |
| AStorm | ooh, froze it seems ;P | 23:47 |
| AStorm | I mean, the device | 23:47 |
| AStorm | I'll wait to see if watchdog kills is | 23:47 |
| AStorm | *it | 23:47 |
| AStorm | qwerty12_N800: can't run simple localegen for me and give me the files in /usr/share/locales? | 23:48 |
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| AStorm | weird... | 23:50 |
| AStorm | watchdog doesn't kill the device | 23:50 |
| AStorm | it works, but... not the UI or others | 23:50 |
| AStorm | weird hang it is | 23:50 |
| AStorm | screen and LED work | 23:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | not on device, cpu goes way too high for me to be able to my tablet | 23:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | s/able /able to use/ | 23:50 |
| infobot | qwerty12_N800 meant: not on device, cpu goes way too high for me to be able to use to my tablet | 23:50 |
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| AStorm | hm? | 23:51 |
| AStorm | nah, why | 23:51 |
| AStorm | unless, it's the stupid CPU scheduler striking again | 23:51 |
| AStorm | ;P | 23:51 |
| AStorm | maybe the "hang" is due to CPU being pegged | 23:51 |
| AStorm | but screen dims smoothly... hmmh | 23:51 |
| AStorm | shutdown worked apparently at least, LED showed it | 23:52 |
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| AStorm | no, system hanged, but it was a soft lockup | 23:53 |
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