IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-01-30

wazd	I can install FL Studio and see what i can do)	00:00
Stskeeps	wazd: hehe, we will probably have multiple sound themes :)	00:00
* etrunko wondering why the autobuilder favors chinook packages		00:01
* b-man thinks about the possibilitys of rescue menu themes ;)		00:01
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Jaffa_	What's the difference between (ubuntu-)rescue-menu and bootmenu?	00:03
wazd	But I'd prefer to work on UI than on sounds)	00:03
Stskeeps	Jaffa_: rescue menus are later in the process and allows you to enable console mode, enable USB ethernet and USB serial (tbd)	00:04
Stskeeps	or reboot/boot normally	00:04
Stskeeps	it's -very- handy when developing and when your system is smashed	00:04
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Jaffa_	Ah, right - yes, I've seen wazd's design for a mer one	00:05
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* b-man is getting really pised off by a stupid ad that keeps re-directing him >:(		00:10
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* b-man thinks about sending a complaint to the administrator of the website with the annoying add that won't take no for an awnser		00:17
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benson	Complaints are overrated, send him a DDoS.	00:18
RST38h	or start directly by mailing body parts	00:18
Jaffa_	His own?	00:19
johnx	nah, they can be anyone's	00:19
johnx	doesn't really matter	00:19
johnx	just like the tooth fairy: It can be anyone's teeth. :D	00:19
* b-man thinks about sending the person with the add a worm virus		00:19
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RST38h	even animal parts will do the persuasive job	00:20
GeneralAntilles	johnx, rotfl	00:20
* RST38h really wants to know why every attempt to play a video in MediaBox or Canola is like stepping int a mine field		00:21
RST38h	You never know if it lets you stop playback or hangs in some weird state eating 100% CPu and preventing you from playing other videos	00:22
Jaffa_	RST38h: are they "sensible" videos? I've not had a problem (certainly compared with the built-in Media Player [although that's better recently])	00:22
RST38h	Jaffa: Trying to watch worldtv99 channels over MediaBox	00:23
Jaffa_	Ah, so streaming stuff? I rarely bother these days, although the Worldtv99 stuff was interesting at the summit.	00:23
RST38h	Jaffa: Same thing ocurs with YouTube on Canola (did not try with MediaBox yet)	00:23
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etrunko	RST38h: hmm.. this can be related to mplayer	00:26
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RST38h	etrunko: I remember you, Canola guys, saying something about difficulties interfacing with mplayer over dbus	00:27
RST38h	Is it the problem>	00:27
RST38h	?	00:27
etrunko	RST38h: hard to tell... but yes, it can be	00:28
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RST38h	oh, btw, can I report a bug? =0	00:28
etrunko	mplayer is not meant to be used by other apps... it works much better as a standalone	00:28
RST38h	(reported it before to handful, but it has not been fixed)	00:29
etrunko	RST38h: please do... bugs.maemo.org	00:29
etrunko	Canola bugs are there now	00:29
RST38h	etrunko: ah, you have got your own category there! ok	00:29
etrunko	:)	00:30
etrunko	thanks	00:30
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ssvb	RST38h: One of the problems is that XV for some reason does not utilize a fast blizzard overlay when used with mplayer. It needs to be investigated if it is some configuration problem like colorkey, placement of the output window or whatever	00:32
RST38h	etrunko: You are not planning on changing from using mplayer executable to using libraries?	00:32
etrunko	RST38h: a bit difficult for youtube files.	00:32
RST38h	ssvb: you can just as well open dev/fb0 (dev/fb1 for YUV) and fornicate with blizzard as much as you want	00:33
etrunko	btw, gstreamer now supports flv playback, at least on my desktop	00:33
RST38h	etrunko: well, they are just a specially compressed video	00:33
ssvb	RST38h: well, I know :)	00:33
etrunko	RST38h: yeah. it would be a matter of packaging it and testing on the device	00:33
ssvb	RST38h: but canola uses XV for video output for embedding into a window	00:33
RST38h	etrunko: it should, flv support has probably been added to decoder libs by now	00:34
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: starting Mer in VirtualBox :-)	01:03
lardman	ssvb: nice work on sbc	01:03
RST38h	Canola scrolling bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4058	01:04
RST38h	Please, vote if you are having the same problem	01:04
RST38h	/sleep	01:06
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johnx	'night RST38h	01:06
timelE61i	jaffa: is there a vmware image?	01:06
Jaffa	timelE61i: 0.7 release on Sunday will have one, yes. Stskeeps may want to hand out a beta, I don't know.	01:07
etrunko	night RST38h	01:07
etrunko	thanks	01:07
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: I just took that image in VirtualBox, did "echo 'assume-connecton 1' >~/.osso/hildon-application-manager" in X Terminal; started Application Manager; checked the current catalogues and went and installed the Titan theme without any problems whatsoever.	01:10
ssvb	lardman: thanks, I hope to do some ARMv6 SBC optimizations on this weekend, otherwise it still will not run fast enough on ARM11	01:10
johnx	Jaffa, ok. I kinda lost track of doing that change earlier. will do it now :)	01:11
lcuk	ssvb, hope the xv problem is not major :P	01:12
Jaffa	johnx: the first setup wizard stuff is cool.	01:12
johnx	Jaffa, ah thanks :) It's really just a skeery bash script + zenity	01:13
ssvb	lcuk: that's something which prevents running it on optimized path, and it is related to the way how mplayer uses XV	01:13
Jaffa	Yeah (I could tell) - but it's nice to be asked these things rather than be just 'user' :)	01:13
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lcuk	ahhh you are on about this device, i keep seeing similar queries coming up in #beagle ;)	01:14
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ssvb	lcuk: yes, current device is not dead yet :) and what are the problems with #beagle?	01:15
lcuk	not problems, i just notice a few bings for my xv keyword	01:16
* Jaffa beds.		01:16
lcuk	gnite jaffa	01:16
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lcuk	i also notice they dont discuss bacon much	01:16
lcuk	and ssvb, the current device rocks! :D	01:17
johnx	agreed. my desktop from 10 years ago was slower and more expensive :)	01:19
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lardman	ssvb: not fast enough, what is fast enough then?	01:21
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lcuk	heh lardman theres always optimizations	01:21
ssvb	lardman: well, something that is not obviously running a lot slower than it could :)	01:22
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johnx	this is gonna give me nightmares I think: http://tinyurl.com/bgspvl	01:47
lardman	ssvb: ah, and there I was thinking that omap3 wasn't as fast as we've heard it is ;)	01:49
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lcuk	johnx, ive seen one of those eating a whole beetle car	02:00
johnx	eep. just looks so damn easy to fall into	02:01
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lcuk	http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tPDLX0koXFs	02:02
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johnx	it ate that couch in one go	02:03
johnx	it does take apart cars rather a lot quicker than the last time I did...	02:04
lcuk	heh yeah	02:06
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johnx	and I still had plenty of respect for how much quicker a sawzall and a cut-off wheel makes things...	02:06
lcuk	sawzall would appear to have its own issues so i heard, something about moisture and conductivity of different woods triggering	02:08
johnx	luckily the car we were cutting in half was made of metal	02:08
lcuk	wicked, what did you do with the 2 halves?	02:09
johnx	took it to a dump :)	02:09
johnx	s/it/them/	02:09
infobot	johnx meant: took them to a dump :)	02:09
lcuk	did you try and drive the front half :D	02:09
johnx	the whole reason we didn't drive it to the dump is that it was already undriveable :/	02:10
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lcuk	boo	02:10
* timeless looks aroudn		02:10
benson	Yeah, but maybe with less weight, you could get it going... :p	02:10
johnx	heh	02:10
johnx	yeah, boo to my friend for crashing it after I helped him get it working all nice :\|	02:11
timeless	"Not available while Bluetooth set off"	02:12
timeless	anyone have any ideas who one could improve that message?	02:12
timeless	s/who/how/	02:12
infobot	timeless meant: anyone have any ideas how one could improve that message?	02:12
johnx	Someone set us off the bluetooth!	02:12
johnx	just s/set/is/	02:13
GeneralAntilles	What isn't available?	02:13
johnx	bluetooth?	02:13
johnx	true love?	02:13
GeneralAntilles	10 Ways to True Love Through vCards?	02:14
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johnx	heh...once a certain company improves vCard import ...	02:15
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GeneralAntilles	Gotta get up early and drive tomorrow.	02:15
* GeneralAntilles really should sleep. . . .		02:15
johnx	gah. me too	02:15
johnx	9:15AM O_o	02:15
johnx	I'm even off my b0rken night-shift schedule	02:16
benson	~lart morning for coming too early	02:17
* infobot whips out his power stapler and staples morning's foot to the floor for coming too early		02:17
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sisto	are there pictures of Nokia's newest tablet already?	02:20
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* sisto is impatient		02:20
johnx	nope :P	02:21
sisto	:\|	02:21
johnx	patience. if you saw the alpha release of their SDK you'd know you wouldn't have a version of Maemo to run on it yet anyways	02:22
sisto	i haven't	02:23
sisto	I guess it sucks?	02:23
benson	But we're ahead of Moblin!	02:23
johnx	No. it doesn't 'suck.' It's just not ready	02:23
benson	Not really, just not done.	02:23
johnx	at this point it's really too early to say 'sucks' or 'awesome' :)	02:24
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sisto	what about the Pandora?	02:24
sisto	is it real?	02:24
johnx	there's a video of a prototype actually running	02:24
johnx	I don't know if that's real enough for all of the ... doubters, but I'm happy	02:24
sisto	there are no launch dates yet, right?	02:25
johnx	nope	02:25
johnx	but it'll be sooner than the next thing from Nokia almost certainly	02:25
sisto	I wonder how can people trust enough to pre-order it	02:25
johnx	heh	02:25
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* johnx preordered		02:25
benson	Well, aside from "before the end of the year", where the year was 2008.	02:26
sisto	I'm sure it's ok though	02:26
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sisto	I guess it was unofficially postponed? haha	02:26
johnx	eh. I kinda figured it would be delayed at least a bit when I preordered	02:26
benson	I'd say the odds are pretty good for it, but there's some chance they go belly-up.	02:27
timeless	what did you preorder?	02:27
johnx	a pandora	02:27
benson	P&\|A	02:27
johnx	I didn't bet on it being delayed this much, but I'm willing to make a bet on a small company every once in a while	02:27
benson	I alternately kick and thank myself for not ordering.	02:27
sisto	are they the same people that did the gp2x?	02:28
GAN800	benson, and November, and August, and July, and April. :P	02:29
johnx	sisto, I think the answer is something like "not really"	02:29
johnx	but they're connected to the gp2x guys	02:29
johnx	GAN800, don't forget that the original plan was to launch by the end of summer 2007 or so with entirely different hardware :)	02:29
GAN800	johnx, right. ;)	02:30
johnx	anyways, if my bet pans out and they can make these sustainably and I get nice open hardware to play with eventually I'll be happy	02:30
GAN800	That one we can blame squarely on TI, though.	02:30
sisto	gp2x is nice but I would miss the kboard	02:30
johnx	the gp2x is sloooow	02:30
sisto	johnx: is it? I was talking generally, I have never tried one	02:31
sisto	I bet 200mhz is slow	02:31
* GAN800 notices he has an uncashed paycheck. . . .		02:31
johnx	me neither, but from what I hear and from the specs it's just not fast	02:31
sisto	so I trust you	02:31
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sisto	hmmm... I guess you should forget about snes emulation???	02:32
johnx	and still the devs did lots of impressive optimizations. hopefully they don't get lazy now that they have an omap3 to play with :)	02:32
GAN800	Is buying an N810 mostly because I want to own every tablet a good enough reason?	02:32
johnx	sisto, on the gp2x it's kinda hit-or-miss I believe	02:32
johnx	GAN800, uhm? not really :P	02:32
sisto	GAN800: sounds right to me. that's what collectionists do	02:32
GAN800	johnx, an interesting trend to watch as hardware gets more powerful	02:33
benson	GAN800: If you wait a year, they'll be even cheaper...	02:33
johnx	GAN800, based on the people who are interested I think they'll be interested in pushing the limits this time too	02:33
GAN800	There's a small chance it may become my primary device.	02:33
benson	That's what I'm telling myself, anhow.	02:33
sisto	sorry that didn't sound like an english word	02:33
GAN800	benson, is the N800? ;)	02:33
johnx	sisto, quite alright. you probably wanted collectors :) ... but I like collectionists better	02:34
* lcuk will work as hard as possible to make the ui sliq		02:34
benson	GAN800: Yes. Practically all units for sale now are used, hence cheaper.	02:34
GAN800	I might give this N800 to a friend. . . .	02:34
GAN800	benson, buy not really by all that much	02:35
sisto	I guess as hardware advances, people tend to be lazier towards optimization	02:35
lardman	aargh, I've broken my code somehow	02:35
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sisto	but on consoles it's the opposite I think	02:35
GAN800	Maybe $150 versus buy's $190	02:35
lcuk	sisto, it never used to be	02:35
lcuk	every console brought out until the console was like computers	02:36
lcuk	wii ^	02:36
lcuk	ie increasing speed etc	02:36
lcuk	the wii reversed that trend :)	02:36
johnx	the wii is a solidly more than 2x as fast as the cube	02:36
lcuk	but more than 7000000 times slower than the competition	02:36
johnx	and still selling about a hojillion times as many units :)	02:37
lcuk	sorry then - top dog consoles that everyone must have	02:37
benson	Well, FWIW, I'd buy an N810 right now if it was $40 cheaper. A year from now, I may well not...	02:37
sisto	but they optimize it to the limit	02:37
lcuk	sisto, :) nothing wrong with that	02:37
johnx	yup, and everyone already knows how to optimize stuff for the wii	02:37
sisto	lcuk: I know... what is wrong is Windows though	02:37
johnx	apparently the PS3 is a real PITA, if half of what I read is true	02:38
sisto	Vista :P	02:38
lcuk	sisto, lots. but no, not vista, but same is true in linux gnome etc.	02:38
sisto	benson: what price did you find it at?	02:38
* benson may have dodged spending $250 or so on a monitor, so I have the cash...		02:39
benson	It _is_ tempting.	02:39
johnx	heh. what's wrong is that MS didn't properly abstract their UI layer and so switching to a composited UI caused lots of problems. Though I honestly don't understand the insane memory usage	02:39
lcuk	current windowing GUIs are geared towards mouse and they work really well. however when you get a touchscreen over 90% of the area is unusable and not touchable to the expected effect. something like liqbase uses 99% of the screen for active interaction and lets you touch where you want.	02:39
benson	sisto: I got the first one at ~$205	02:39
sisto	benson: where?	02:39
benson	Second one was ~190, I think	02:39
sisto	sisto: I will buy one in February when I travel to the US	02:40
benson	And third one was part of a bundle.	02:40
sisto	ha	02:40
sisto	lowest I found it was 250	02:40
benson	Not sure we're talking the same thing? I'm talking N800s, about a year ago.	02:40
benson	I don't have an N810 yet.	02:40
sisto	n810	02:40
sisto	ok	02:40
johnx	picked mine up for ~$260 in march '07	02:40
benson	N810 are $220 on buy.com now.	02:41
johnx	best thing that compUSA ever did for me is go out of business and have a liquidation sale :)	02:41
sisto	benson: I guess you're not a fan of the n810?	02:41
benson	I kinda like the notion of the slideout keyboard, but it's mixed with enough bad changes...	02:41
benson	IDK, maybe I'd like it better if I had one.	02:42
lcuk	you can get a 2nd slot in your n810 now	02:42
lcuk	best of both :)	02:42
sisto	benson: what is worse on the n810 besides having no FM radio and no SD card slots?	02:42
benson	A 2nd slot, USB or what?	02:42
lcuk	no	02:42
benson	D-pad in wrong place.	02:43
lcuk	i think its a second	02:43
lcuk	might be wayyyyy off, lemme check - ive always assumed it was second	02:43
benson	And the SD slot's a big factor, although that's mitigated by craves1's adapter.	02:43
sisto	benson: I guess they could have moved the screen a bit to the right and placed the d-pad on the left, right?	02:43
lcuk	heh benson yeah :$ its craves1's	02:43
lcuk	its not a second one - its a bigger card then	02:44
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* lcuk got mixed up		02:44
sisto	benson: adapter?	02:44
benson	Which goes in the miniSD slot and runs a full SD under the back panel.	02:44
johnx	mmm...one thing I'd love in an N810 is using that 3600mAh battery	02:44
lcuk	if you could run your n8x0 at pda resolution all day, how long would it last	02:44
benson	Yeah, that's just it. I'd have to buy craves1's adapter, and the 3.6Ah battery, too.	02:44
sisto	this? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=254332	02:44
lcuk	normal battery	02:45
benson	I'm running a 3.6Ah in my N800 sometimes. :p	02:45
johnx	lcuk, what?	02:45
lcuk	running n8x0 at lower resolution, im just pondering the runtime	02:45
johnx	won't do anything	02:45
lcuk	i remember my loox had a much bigger battery	02:45
johnx	power usage goes something like: CPU, wifi, backlight,	02:46
lcuk	ahh its brightness of the screen in part that does it	02:46
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* lcuk is tired its been quite an evening		02:47
sisto	I guess a microsd will be enaugh for me... I just need to download some podcasts and movies. 8 gb will be enaugh	02:48
Mousey	16gb microsd works great in n810	02:49
sisto	Mousey: that too	02:49
benson	Yeah, but last I looked, 16GB microSD are quite spendy, and only Class 4.	02:49
Mousey	there's a 3600 mAh battery?	02:50
Mousey	blah, i got class 2, it's not like the device is gonna keep up with class 4 speed anyway	02:50
sisto	are there any games that use the 3d hardware on the n810? I read the video memory can't drive the screen on full resolution when using 3d mode, so you have to crop it :(	02:50
benson	Where fast 16GB full-size SD are affordable.	02:50
benson	Yeah, it will.	02:50
Mousey	if i had full size SD, i'd get 32GB	02:50
benson	SDs slow down as they get rewritten, the rating is nly on a fresh card.	02:51
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sisto	benson: I have had my 2gb sd card for about 3 or 4 years now with constant writing on it and it has yet to fail me	02:52
benson	And I'm pretty sure I've seen >4 MB/s speeds here, though I'm not sure. I'm not copying big files often.	02:52
lcuk	gnite folks	02:52
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lardman	night all	02:53
sisto	lcuk: bnite	02:53
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benson	Mousey: Yes, mugen makes 3.6Ah batteries for N810, and for E61.	02:53
sisto	g	02:53
Mousey	oooh, the samurai from samurai champloo makes batteries now?	02:53
benson	E61 is same battery as 770/N800, but the battery cover doesn't fit, of course.	02:54
* Mousey googles		02:54
benson	It lasts like crazy, though. :D	02:54
timeless	hey	02:54
timeless	if i take a mobile device into a room	02:55
timeless	and there's another mobile device in the room	02:55
timeless	and we want to share files w/o using bluetooth	02:55
timeless	but we want to use a radio	02:55
timeless	and share the files directly w/o a third device	02:55
timeless	how do you spell that system? :)	02:55
Mousey	eieio!	02:56
benson	ad-hoc WiFi?	02:56
timeless	benson: thanks	02:56
timeless	that's precisely the spelling i was expecting	02:56
timeless	but i wanted confirmation	02:56
* timeless ponders		02:56
* timeless wonders what the heck a 'Duration:' is		02:56
benson	It's from two separate latin words, so "ad hoc WiFi" would be acceptable, but nobody does.	02:57
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timeless	benson: obviously nobody include nokia	02:57
timeless	which is correct, it's a nobody :)	02:57
* timeless kicks nokia		02:57
timeless	(strings changed locally)	02:57
* timeless wodners what 'Internet connection' is		02:57
timeless	s/wodners/wonders/	02:58
timeless	(it's a string somewhere in the n800/n810, i'm not sure i want to hunt for it)	02:58
* timeless grumbles		02:58
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timeless	"No ongoing connection to phone"	02:59
sisto	timeless: i don't think it's called ad-hoc if you use bluetooth. unless you were talking about wifi	03:00
timeless	sisto: read my question more carefully	03:00
sisto	timeless: haha ok	03:01
timeless	(fwiw, someone could have been annoying and mentioned irda)	03:01
timeless	but i got the answer i wanted :)	03:01
johnx	heh...IRDA is a reality for me. it's how I get pics off my phone onto my zaurus :)	03:01
timeless	hey, irda is how i send files from my laptop to my phone	03:01
johnx	also, the linux command line 'wireless-tools' call it ad-hoc as well	03:02
benson	I thought of saying "RDS", what with the RX-51...	03:02
johnx	every phone here has irda. it's wonderful for exchanging phone numbers	03:02
timeless	benson: i'm dealing w/ diablo :)	03:02
* timeless cries		03:04
timeless	"Phone selecting 1/4: Welcome"	03:04
johnx	timeless, look. it could be worse. http://www.boingboing.net/2009/01/27/suburban-japan-4.html	03:04
sisto	does the n810 come with diablo from the factory?	03:04
johnx	sisto, generally no I believe	03:05
timeless	johnx: our intranet has a picture:	03:07
timeless	Nokia	03:07
timeless	connocting poopie	03:07
johnx	but you have to keep in mind: This is not some isolated incident...though to be fair, I think they might be trying to go for engrish-loving tourist market	03:08
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timeless	yeah, see..	03:09
timeless	there's a difference	03:09
timeless	i want my friends and family in the US to buy my Nokia product	03:09
timeless	which means the English needs to be good	03:09
johnx	but the things that get out on shelves here are like the things that only get to the proofreaders inside Nokia	03:09
timeless	and it needs to be American	03:10
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timeless	shipping colour and other britishisms...	03:10
johnx	I think you're doing it backwards: Americans will pay lots of cash to import things with Japanese English on them	03:10
timeless	really	03:10
timeless	?	03:10
johnx	I'm sure engrish.com is doing a brisk trade	03:11
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timeless	i could easily contribute many items from Finnish restaurants	03:12
timeless	so could my italian coworkers	03:12
timeless	http://www.engrish.com//wp-content/uploads/2009/01/sweet-as-a-naughty-girl.jpg	03:13
* timeless frowns		03:13
* timeless doesn't get it		03:13
timeless	are sweet and bold swapped?	03:14
johnx	it's just nonsense	03:14
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johnx	anyways, I could kvetch about this stuff all morning, but I need to get some sleep :)	03:16
johnx	'night all	03:16
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b-man	g'night johnx	03:17
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Mousey	who's even heard of shop.eten.hu	03:31
Mousey	only place i can find the 3600 mAh mugen battery for n810	03:32
benson	Mousey: I have.	03:32
benson	I bought my N800 battery there.	03:32
Mousey	what country are you in?	03:32
benson	USA	03:32
Mousey	i wish there was an external battery charger =(	03:33
ShadowJK	What do you mean by external battery charger?	03:33
Mousey	for n810 batteries	03:33
Mousey	^_^	03:33
ShadowJK	Oh right.	03:34
ShadowJK	and nokia seems to have axed DC-1 :-(	03:34
Mousey	meh	03:37
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sisto	Mousey: http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-Charger-For-Nokia-E61i-E90-E90i-N810-BP-4L_W0QQitemZ200293463836QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item200293463836&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205\|66%3A1\|65%3A12\|39%3A2\|240%3A1318	03:56
sisto	http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-Charger-for-NOKIA-E61i-E90-E90i-N810-810-BP-4L_W0QQitemZ300268084259QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item300268084259&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205\|66%3A1\|65%3A12\|39%3A2\|240%3A1318	03:56
sisto	http://cgi.ebay.com/BATTERY-CHARGER-FOR-NOKIA-BP-4L-E61i-E63-E71-E90-N810_W0QQitemZ330289776423QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item330289776423&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205\|66%3A1\|65%3A12\|39%3A2\|240%3A1318	03:56
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Mousey	danke	03:57
sisto	I bought one of those for my camera last year	03:58
sisto	directly from hong kong :\|	03:58
sisto	it works though	03:58
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MaceN800	hi	04:23
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LinuxHack3r	So any idea why gconf-editor is not showing up in my maemo extras?	04:43
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GeneralAntilles	I'm amazed at the ignorance of the RX-51 on -developers.	04:47
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GeneralAntilles	LinuxHack3r, it's only in Extras-devel for the moment.	04:48
GeneralAntilles	There's a .install here:	04:48
GeneralAntilles	~extras	04:48
infobot	methinks extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	04:48
LinuxHack3r	GeneralAntilles: I don't understand...	04:49
GeneralAntilles	LinuxHack3r, you know how Debian's repositories are broken up into several stability levels?	04:49
GeneralAntilles	Well, Extras is broken up into two: Extras and Extras-devel.	04:49
LinuxHack3r	GeneralAntilles: And I need the extras-devel!	04:50
GeneralAntilles	gconf-editor has not yet been promoted to Extras	04:50
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LinuxHack3r	GeneralAntilles: But it is entirely safe..right?	04:51
GeneralAntilles	Not all packages are safe, no.	04:51
GeneralAntilles	So I recommend not leaving it enabled	04:51
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GeneralAntilles	Just grab gconf-editor then disable the repository.	04:51
LinuxHack3r	GeneralAntilles: Oh...and it won't remove the package will it...	04:52
GeneralAntilles	No	04:53
LinuxHack3r	GeneralAntilles: I've only had this this thing for a few days...my n810 that is...after I click the link...I cannot hit open..and if I do...it tells me"not enough free memory on local disk for downloading". Is that talking about the 256 or the 2gb internal?	04:55
GeneralAntilles	Delete the random crap from in MyDocs	04:55
GeneralAntilles	The bundled movies and documentation	04:55
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LinuxHack3r	GeneralAntilles: Oh shoot..just rememberred that accidental command I ran at school today...I've already deleted the mydocs...but accidently mv'd some stuff somewhere to somewhere. Let me look into that.	04:56
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Jucato	new n810 here as well. :)	05:00
Jucato	I'm always paranoid that I'll immediately use up the 256mb space (only got around 70mb left)	05:01
GeneralAntilles	~boot-sd	05:01
infobot	methinks boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card	05:01
Jucato	hm.. I'm getting a timeout error... probably from my end though...	05:02
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Jucato	but 70mb is probably still a long way to go :)	05:03
Jucato	(but then I have a lot of things in mind :D)	05:03
Jucato	is it possible to use the internal 2GB memory for that though?	05:05
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LinuxHack3r	GeneralAntilles: In terms of the filesytem from a terminal...where should I be looking to free up files? mmc1 is the 8GB card I believe...isn't it? It sould be free. So where else?	05:11
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LinuxHack3r	GeneralAntilles: Helps! Where should I clean up space?	05:14
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sisto	LinuxHack3r: rm / -rf	05:16
sisto	LinuxHack3r: kidding!!!	05:17
LinuxHack3r	sisto: It works!	05:17
sisto	LinuxHack3r: haha	05:17
LinuxHack3r	Oh wait...now the screen is blank.	05:17
LinuxHack3r	It won't turn on!	05:17
LinuxHack3r	This sucks. ;)	05:17
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sisto	LinuxHack3r: i think this is what you're looking for: http://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card	05:21
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sisto	"... Why would we want to boot from a flash card? * For more space to install applications. ...."	05:21
LinuxHack3r	Not exactly..but I may have to do that later. Right now I am trying to find out where..in the File Manager, Nokia N810 is actually stored.	05:21
LinuxHack3r	where is the "Nokia N810" file storage area?	05:21
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* Jucato would want to permanently swap the roles of the 256mb and the internal 2gb memory...		05:24
josh_949	hi room	05:25
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* Jucato looks around		05:26
josh_949	Do ya'll think the n900 will be released febuary 16th?	05:26
LinuxHack3r	I love this device to death...but I sorta feel Nokia bombed when it came to the storage. Seriously...for the price...stick ONE 16GB card inside or something...I hate having to deal with "three" cards so to say.	05:26
LinuxHack3r	josh_949: If so...I wonder how much it'll cost? I bet I cannot pick one of those up for 250!	05:27
Jucato	gah!and I just bought my n810 6 days ago! :(	05:27
Jucato	(after a year of waiting...)	05:27
josh_949	tabletblog.com and the price drops say it will be released very soon	05:27
LinuxHack3r	Jucato: i BOUGHT it about a good week or so ago...ask sisto...but I just got it monday.	05:28
benson	LinuxHack3r: The File manager shows things in MyDocs directory and below.	05:28
josh_949	I miss my n810....	05:28
josh_949	I sold it to get my eee pc 1002ha im using	05:28
LinuxHack3r	benson: Where is the MyDocs directory located in the filesystem?	05:28
josh_949	um	05:29
Jucato	LinuxHack3r, hehe almost same as me... but I had a longer wait...	05:29
benson	josh_949: Define "released"; we may get an announcement then, but produve is still a way out.	05:29
josh_949	I think the ffolder is hidden	05:29
benson	LinuxHack3r: /home/user/MyDocs	05:29
josh_949	is anyone on an n810?	05:29
benson	It's not hidden, though some of the subfolders are.	05:29
josh_949	oh ok	05:29
josh_949	is anyone on an n810?	05:30
benson	Like .documents is the "Documents" folder, but by making it hidden, they can fake it in with a localized name.	05:30
LinuxHack3r	benson: That might be my problem...I don't have a /home/user/MyDocs. Like I said...one failed command screwed something minor up.	05:30
Jucato	but when you go to ~/MyDocs in the terminal and do ls, it's emptyh :)	05:30
LinuxHack3r	josh_949: Right now?/	05:30
josh_949	yea	05:30
LinuxHack3r	Jucato: go into it and do ls .*	05:30
benson	That's quite possibly the problem.	05:30
Jucato	josh_949, me... chatting	05:31
benson	Jucato: or ls -a	05:31
Jucato	LinuxHack3r, er... hidden dirs	05:31
sisto	Jucato: see the bright side, you got the n810 for half or third the price the n900 will come out with	05:31
Jucato	why didn't I think of that...	05:31
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Jucato	sisto, guess again :)	05:31
benson	?	05:32
Jucato	US$ 450 (converted)	05:32
benson	Ouch.	05:32
sisto	in that case you would get the n900 for 1000 or more	05:32
benson	Probably.	05:32
Jucato	it was a take it or leave it deal ;)	05:32
sisto	Jucato: where do you live?	05:33
sisto	(country)	05:33
benson	Hmmm... maybe you should have left it, if you know anyone in the US.	05:33
Jucato	there's only one store here that sells the N810, and thnat was after a year it was released!	05:33
benson	We have them for $220.	05:33
Jucato	Philippines	05:33
Jucato	ironically, this is Nokia country	05:34
LinuxHack3r	is there supposed to be anything majorly important in the mydocs?	05:34
Jucato	"Nokia" is the local term for "cellphone"	05:34
* benson pokes around in MyDocs		05:34
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sisto	LinuxHack3r: no, just the kernel and other unimportant stuff	05:35
LinuxHack3r	Oh...who cares about popcorn?	05:35
Jucato	heh	05:35
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benson	I think you should be fine with just MyDocs, MyDocs/.documents, MyDocs/.images, MyDocs/.games, MyDocs/.sounds, MyDocs/.videos, all empty directories...	05:36
sisto	benson: what are those for?	05:37
Jucato	I keep no files in there.I immediately move files to mmc1 or 2	05:37
benson	That's the directory tree LinuxHack3r blew away.	05:37
LinuxHack3r	benson: indeed.	05:38
Jucato	hehe	05:38
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LinuxHack3r	benson: Haha! After creating a dir for each..it works! Wonder why something like that makes such a difference?	05:50
benson	Because it wanted to save a file there, and there was no there there?	05:51
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LinuxHack3r	benson: But a new repo for meamo-extras? where would it go? documents, images, games, sounds, or videos? ;)	05:52
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sisto	LinuxHack3r: what wasn't working that started working when you created the dirs?	05:53
benson	No, the .install file that describes the repo. And I'm not sure, but probably documents...	05:53
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* Jucato can't seem to see how to type angle brackets when the hardware keyboard is out....		05:54
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sisto	i'm looking at the n810 keyboard... there's no alt key, how do you zap X?	05:54
Mousey	Jucato: hit the Chr key	05:54
Mousey	you can map the [] {} keys to the bar under the terminal	05:54
Mousey	which i find is the easiest way	05:54
benson	sisto: you don't.	05:55
Jucato	Those are square brackets...	05:55
sisto	so there's no need for the alt key?	05:55
benson	It's not Xfree86/Xorg, it's a kdrive derivative.	05:55
Jucato	angle brackets = greater/less than	05:55
benson	It doesn't even know about Ctrl-Alt-Backspace	05:55
Jucato	no alt key... poor emacs...	05:55
* Jucato hides		05:56
Mousey	yah, no alt. never solved that one myself =)	05:56
Mousey	who uses emacs anyway? you only have 128M of ram!	05:56
* Mousey ducks!		05:56
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benson	I don't have one, but I think some people may bind another key for alt?	05:56
benson	Anyway, can't emacs make do with meta?	05:57
Jucato	<> is only there for the stylus keyboard :;(	05:57
LinuxHack3r	So tells me...the modest mail app...where in the conf do I enable images in gconf-editor?	05:57
benson	So you can just hit Escape before the key?	05:57
benson	LinuxHack3r: http://www.flickr.com/photos/atmasphere/2613776979/	05:58
sisto	benson: is there an escape key?	05:58
Jucato	heheh	05:58
benson	Yes, it's got the "back" curlicue arrow.	05:58
Jucato	esc button	05:59
Jucato	http://jucato.org/gallery/v/photos/dreams-come-true-2009/	05:59
Jucato	oops...	05:59
* Mousey clicks!		05:59
Jucato	wrong window	05:59
Mousey	wee!	05:59
Jucato	hehe just n810 pics	05:59
Mousey	rats	05:59
LinuxHack3r	benson: Thanks...any other tips I may want to enable?	06:00
benson	Probably bunches, but I don't have any to the top of my head...	06:01
benson	Just cruise around gconf looking for interesting settings and change them. Just like the Windows registry.	06:02
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Jucato	gah! no fair!	06:02
Jucato	even the finger kb has <>	06:02
benson	(Actually, gconf has documentation for many of the settings, so cruising around can be helpful.	06:03
benson	My N800 has <> on _all_ its keyboards. :p	06:03
Jucato	you don't have a thumbboard anyway! :P	06:04
benson	Actually, I do. A bluetooth thumbboard -- with <>!	06:04
Jucato	heh	06:04
benson	http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16685	06:04
Jucato	cheater :P	06:05
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Jucato	now if only I had 2 more arms so that I could do laundry and chat...	06:05
LinuxHack3r	benson: I'll wait untill I get my other, first shipment from them. If I'm satisfied...that's an awfully cheap keyboard though.	06:06
LinuxHack3r	This is what I want:	06:06
LinuxHack3r	http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6443	06:06
benson	They're pretty decent, I've ordered ~$100 worth from them previously.	06:06
benson	I actually put in a ~300 order with them last week.	06:07
* Jucato has yet to find one...		06:08
Mousey	~300	06:08
Mousey	rats	06:08
benson	That hardware's good, but not certain it's HID.	06:08
benson	I have a Palm-branded one that's the same, but HID only.	06:09
benson	That MSI one is either SPP only or SPP/HID, and I'm not sure which.	06:09
LinuxHack3r	I don't have a clue what you just said...and I'm a full time geek.	06:09
Jucato	I was planning on something crazy, like a rollable keyboard...	06:10
benson	They only mention SPP... but they don't always have complete (or accurate) descriptions.	06:10
Jucato	but remembered it was a usb kb... :(	06:10
benson	HID: Normal keyboard protocol, works straight up/	06:10
benson	SPP: Used on some old palms, I think, but needs a daemon to interpret it.	06:11
benson	Works fine, but you have to install kbdd, which would be annoying.	06:11
benson	Jucato: USB keyboards work, lots of people use them.	06:12
benson	I occasionally use a USB (regular, not rollup) on my N800.	06:12
LinuxHack3r	Oh..so HID is good.	06:12
Jucato	benson, I will need to find a regular USB to micro USB converter first...	06:13
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benson	Yeah, HID is also good for other devices, laptops etc.	06:13
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Jucato	ok so for bt keyboards, HID good, SPP not so much?	06:14
benson	Jucato: Shipping may be an issue, but you can get them from:	06:14
benson	http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=35_67	06:14
benson	Otherwise, you can do software switching, and just an A-female / A-Female adapper, + the cable that came with your N810.	06:15
Jucato	shipping is always the issue	06:15
Jucato	yeah I found one like that :)	06:15
Jucato	that's plan B	06:15
LinuxHack3r	benson: With the right adapter and I think I saw a program for the n810..I can plug flashdrives and card readers up to this thing can't i?	06:17
Jucato	although now I don't which is geekier: a foldable bt keyboard or a rollable usb one :)	06:17
rwhitby	electronicproductonline.com shipped an OTG adapter to Australia for reasonable shipping costs.	06:18
benson	LinuxHack3r: yeah, but no program. It just works.	06:18
LinuxHack3r	Jucato: I almost bought a rollable one at staples..but then I saw it was pst.	06:18
Jucato	pst?	06:18
benson	ps2?	06:19
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LinuxHack3r	Jucato: Yes..it's an interface developed by the Soviets in the mid 60's to make data transfer as safe as possible...as the encryption protocol it uses hasn't been cracked to this day.	06:20
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Jucato	psx?	06:20
LinuxHack3r	Jucato: Of course I meant ps2.	06:20
Jucato	ah...	06:20
Jucato	heheh	06:20
LinuxHack3r	So where could I get a usb rollable?	06:20
Jucato	dunno from where you are.a local store here sells lots of them...	06:21
benson	http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/category.302	06:21
benson	Or any local computer store may have them.	06:22
* Jucato reaches for his asthma meds...		06:22
Jucato	although it's not a priority now for me...	06:23
LinuxHack3r	Sweet!	06:23
Jucato	my priority is finding those damned angle brackets!	06:23
LinuxHack3r	Jucato: What?	06:23
benson	?	06:23
benson	They're on both onscreen keyboards.	06:24
Mousey	so what's it mean when i run badblocks on my internal flash and it comes back with a list of them???	06:25
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Jucato	i meant for the real kb :)	06:25
benson	IDK, maybe your internal flash has a list of bad blocks?	06:25
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Mousey	;_;	06:26
Mousey	out of warranty! ;_;	06:26
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benson	Or maybe that badblocks doesn't work on MTD?	06:26
Mousey	oh, but it's not MTD	06:26
Mousey	that'd be /	06:26
Mousey	i mean the 2gb internal	06:26
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benson	Oh, then that just means Nokia's annoying for giving you onenand instead of an MMC slot.	06:27
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benson	But it shouldn't be a problem...	06:28
LinuxHack3r	http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3731	06:28
LinuxHack3r	I like!	06:28
benson	Unless you have killer many, your filesystem should keep a bad block list and work fine.	06:28
benson	LinuxHack3r: I want (and have not found) a USB mini-B / mini-B cable for connecting N800 straight to stuff like that.	06:29
benson	But nobody seems to make one that I've seen...	06:30
benson	Especially retractable would be nice.	06:30
LinuxHack3r	benson: That's not right . Perhaps you could custom make one?	06:30
benson	Probably, but not retractable, or only with great difficulty.	06:31
LinuxHack3r	That's true.	06:31
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benson	electronicproductonline has pre-wired mini-B OTG pigtails for retrofitting devices, but they're regular round cable, and retractable needs flat.	06:32
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Jucato	heh that's my 2nd kb choice.but only if it has bt heheh	06:33
Jucato	otherwise if it's usb, I'd rather go rollable	06:33
benson	But it's sold out. When dealextreme products go "temporarily sold out", they often don't come back...	06:34
LinuxHack3r	benson: Here's a short version of what you want! http://www.trianglelaptops.com/p-459-new-usb-adapter-type-b-male-b-male-ad-ubbbb-mm.aspx	06:34
benson	And the name brand (Targus) version is expensive.	06:34
benson	LinuxHack3r: That looks like fullsize B, the squareish ones.	06:35
benson	Not miniB	06:35
LinuxHack3r	Oh...forgive me.	06:35
LinuxHack3r	USB is one of the most confusing things on this world.	06:36
benson	Beasides, I don't want my tablet jammed up onto the keyboard's USB port. :p	06:36
Mousey	microusb	06:36
Mousey	not miniusb	06:36
benson	It _shouldn't_ be, but people started making retarded adapters (A-A, B-B), and _then_ people started making USB-OTG, which made them not-retarded. And now it's a muddle.	06:37
benson	Mousey: No, miniUSB; I have a N800.	06:37
Mousey	oh	06:37
benson	770 and N800 use mini, N810 uses micro.	06:38
Jucato	usb's and memory cards... micro,mini, @_@	06:38
Mousey	well the microUSB otg on the n810 is fail.. they gave us hostmode, yay!! but not enuff to power even a usb stick	06:38
Mousey	boo	06:38
benson	Which is another reason USB is crazy at times.	06:38
benson	Same power as N800 I think, and I've done USB sticks fine.	06:38
benson	Some of them are just too power-hungry, but some work finew.	06:39
* Jucato can't test that :)		06:39
benson	I've also had a non-powered hub, joystick, and keyboard all hooked up. But that with my ethernet adapter was too much, and things went flakey.	06:39
benson	But if you get a powered hub, all (well, most) USB problems go away.	06:40
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Shadow_M	hello everyone did anyone figure out the smba mounting permission issue	07:08
Jari--	Hi. Has anyone managed to make Macromedia Flash objects work within QT's WebKit ?	07:11
Jari--	actually meant for #qt :P (oops)	07:11
Jucato	hehe	07:11
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* b-man sleeps, g'night all		07:19
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Navi	Jari--: works with Arora	07:20
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Shadow_M	Navi, do you use mount -t cifs	07:31
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Navi	Shadow_M: I use mount.cifs	07:36
Navi	same thing	07:36
Navi	Why?	07:36
Shadow_M	i am hzving permision problems	07:36
Navi	What kinds of permission problems?	07:37
Shadow_M	i am using noperm option but still doesnt work	07:37
Shadow_M	like the user has permision to move files and edit but i am beingntreated as other	07:38
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qgil	Any impressions about the new Media Application Framework - https://garage.maemo.org/docman/view.php/885/368/mafw-maemo-fremantle-draft.pdf ?	07:39
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Navi	Shadow_M: set the gid and umask when you mount it, I guess	07:42
Shadow_M	sudo /bin/mount -t cifs "//(IP_ADDRESS)/(SHARE_NAME)" "/home/user/MyDocs/(DIRECTORY TO MOUNT TO)" -o username="(USERNAME_HERE)",password="(PASSWORD_HERE)",uid=29999,gid=29999	07:43
Shadow_M	already do that then at the end ,noperm	07:44
Navi	throw in umask=775 or something	07:44
Navi	hax it up	07:44
Navi	777, even, if you're an other	07:45
Shadow_M	so umask=777 where in that command	07:50
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Shadow_M	sudo /bin/mount -t cifs "//(IP_ADDRESS)/(SHARE_NAME)" "/home/user/MyDocs/(DIRECTORY TO MOUNT TO)" -o username="(USERNAME_HERE)",password="(PASSWORD_HERE)",uid=29999,gid=29999,umask=777 ?	07:56
Shadow_M	like that	07:56
Navi	yessir	07:56
* slonopotamus hates watchdog		07:58
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Shadow_M	alright gonna try not thanks	07:59
slonopotamus	anyone has mer installed?	08:01
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Proteous	stupid interwebs	08:17
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Stskeeps	Jaffa: oh, thought johnx added assume connection already	08:51
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Stskeeps	morn qwerty12	09:23
qwerty12	hi Stskeeps	09:23
timeless	hello world	09:24
timeless	sts: could i see a preview of 0.7(vmwarE)	09:24
Stskeeps	timeless: sec	09:24
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timeless	nice... my e61i killed itself while plugged in	09:45
Meiz_n810	how can i set my n810 in rd-mode on directly on it without flasher?	09:45
Meiz_n810	cal-tool?	09:45
qwerty12	You can't.	09:45
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timeless	does vmware send mail if you register?	09:47
qwerty12	Bugmenot has a few logins for VMWare if you're trying to download	09:48
* timeless gave up and entered valid values		09:48
Stskeeps	virtualbox works too if vmware is not applicable / anything that loads vmdk :)	09:49
timeless	this is wXPsp3	09:49
timeless	i'm planning to update my workstation to a newer OSOL	09:50
timeless	when i do that, i'll need to use VirtualBox or something for it	09:50
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Stskeeps	morning GAN800	10:31
GAN800	Drove home, now I'm sitting on the front porch locked out with a friend.	10:32
Stskeeps	ah. i think there's a xkcd comic related to this	10:32
timeless	locked out?	10:33
GAN800	Waiting until my sister wakes to go to school and hoping we don't give her a heart attack.	10:34
Stskeeps	doorbell doesn't work?	10:34
* Stskeeps is going together with gf in 30 minutes to print our her slides and then her having her masters thesis defense		10:34
GAN800	The only key I have is for a lock that, apparently, no longer exists.	10:34
timeless	at 3am, a doorbell isn't a good idea	10:34
timeless	so...	10:35
timeless	what's the logic for OK below Cancel in mer?	10:35
GAN800	We're on the porch, the front door has a keypad, but the porch door has a deadbolt.	10:35
Stskeeps	timeless: zenity does it like that, so that's what it was	10:36
Stskeeps	feel free to note it somewhere, it probably shouldn't even have cancel :P	10:36
timeless	it shouldn't	10:36
timeless	The passwords don't match dialog sucks	10:36
L0cutus	buongiorno	10:37
Stskeeps	hehe, well, it's all made in shell script and zenity, not much to expect :)	10:37
timeless	is it really expectin gme to log into a console?	10:37
timeless	oh, it isn't	10:37
Stskeeps	we expose the seams currently to debug and such so	10:38
timeless	um, there should be a line on the text console telling me to "please wait while graphics loads."	10:38
Stskeeps	yeah	10:38
timeless	the OSOL login has a line like that	10:38
Stskeeps	there's also a huge note over this release saying "don't expect too much of it"	10:38
timeless	i can get it for you if you like	10:38
Stskeeps	OSOL, btw?	10:38
timeless	opensolaris	10:38
Stskeeps	ah	10:38
timeless	also, the info banner for 'loading'	10:38
timeless	seems wider than my screen	10:38
timeless	it's like Fennec's find toolbar :)	10:39
Stskeeps	yeah, the info banner is from hildon stuff	10:39
Stskeeps	didn't add it intentionally, i loathe it :P	10:39
* timeless wonders how to fix the vmware screen res		10:39
Stskeeps	but anyway, if you do find errors, usability, or any, feel free to note them on wiki somewhere	10:39
timeless	if someone else could take notes from here, that'd be easier for me	10:40
Stskeeps	hehe	10:40
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timeless	network connections is your network manager from ubuntu?	10:40
Stskeeps	yeah, it was best choice currently (Network Manager), as ICD isn't open..	10:41
* timeless nods		10:41
Stskeeps	i would love to use ICD, but so it goes	10:41
timeless	fwiw, the editing auto eth0 dialog has issues at the bottom	10:41
Stskeeps	yeah	10:41
timeless	the available to all users checkbox and cancel/ok run over the tabgroup	10:41
Stskeeps	we are looking a bit at intel's connman but it has a nice TODO notice saying it doesn't do wpa..	10:42
Stskeeps	(2)	10:42
timeless	heh	10:42
timeless	fwiw, fremantle didn't do wpa2 last week iirc	10:42
timeless	it might this or next	10:42
timeless	it was great, since the primary internal net our testers use was wpa2	10:42
timeless	iirc	10:43
timeless	hrm	10:43
timeless	why didn't application manager show my device name in the main screen?	10:43
Stskeeps	it does that?	10:43
timeless	um, get someone else to confirm?	10:43
Stskeeps	device type or name?	10:43
timeless	my devices are in pockets somewhere :)	10:43
timeless	hey, can i switch to en-us? :)	10:44
timeless	h-a-m bothers me :)	10:44
Stskeeps	hehe, no locale stuff done just yet :P	10:44
Stskeeps	we use en_GB almost straight from fremantle pre-alpha2	10:44
Stskeeps	and if it wasn't for my hack to re-include some strings, it would look really crap	10:44
timeless	heh	10:44
timeless	ok, any idea why the cursor changed to 'x' in ham/browse/all?	10:45
Stskeeps	probably because we use use_cursor yes and not a transparent cursor trick	10:45
timeless	the home screen gives me a prettier cursor	10:46
Stskeeps	yeah	10:46
timeless	i'm only objecting to the X, not the presence	10:46
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Stskeeps	yeah - and it's related to lack of proper cursor handling just yet :)	10:46
timeless	wait, is red pill mode not supported by ham?	10:46
Stskeeps	sure it is	10:46
Stskeeps	but HAM is a bit wonky in that snapshot	10:47
timeless	it says enter web address first	10:47
timeless	and i hae 'matrix' in there	10:47
Stskeeps	try matrix and escape	10:47
timeless	oh!	10:47
timeless	it got behind the ...	10:47
timeless	cute	10:47
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Stskeeps	be aware show all packages is a bit funny since we have entire ubuntu repository ;)	10:48
Stskeeps	(it -does- work, after 3 minutes)	10:48
Stskeeps	:P	10:48
Mousey	^_^	10:48
timeless	heh	10:48
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timeless	is there some trick to getting the screen dimensions correct?	10:49
* timeless wonders how to send <Enter> to xterm		10:53
* timeless wonders why hildon-desktop is using 114% for 'load'		10:54
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timeless	so, the cpu load thingy doesn't support sorting? :(	10:55
Stskeeps	ctrl-m and load-applet is a bit odd.. and vmware doesn't do 800x480 i think	10:55
Jaffa	Morning, all	10:56
Jaffa	timeless: press keypad-enter	10:56
timeless	on my laptop?	10:56
* timeless looks		10:56
Stskeeps	ctrl-m then :P	10:56
timeless	nope, can't seem to find that key	10:56
Stskeeps	i have no idea what causes it, i think it's a hildon specific thing	10:56
timeless	yeah it's a feature	10:56
timeless	it drives the internal devs nuts too fwiw	10:57
timeless	so, does 'close' close the process list, or the selected app? :(	10:57
Stskeeps	hehe	10:58
Stskeeps	"Kill" ;>	10:58
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: can you test mer, new evdev, and see if Fn works now?	10:58
timeless	though shalt not...	10:58
timeless	oh that was murder	10:58
Stskeeps	yeah, killing is OK, murder isn'	10:58
Stskeeps	t	10:58
Stskeeps	:P	10:58
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Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: yes, when i get out of this classroom ;)	11:08
GAN800	It pouring rain. :(	11:09
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trenka	ab: how is it going?	11:17
ab	trenka: the train is tomorrow :)	11:18
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trenka	ab: hehe ;) Need orchestra on the station? ;)	11:32
ab	trenka: :)	11:33
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X-Fade	Morning.	11:47
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lcuk	mornin X-Fade	11:55
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timeless	hey	11:56
timeless	anyone here know of any 0/1 line xml files in the public diablo repo?	11:56
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timeless	stskeeps: will mer break if i update "Operating System" (3.2mb) ?	11:59
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GAN800	X-Fade, if I update repository.maemo.org, can you upload the new page?	12:03
timeless	gan800: do you have a box that can build packages?	12:04
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GAN800	timeless, no.	12:04
X-Fade	GAN800: No, but marcell can. ;)	12:06
Stskeeps	timeless: we have an upgrade like that? O_o	12:06
X-Fade	GAN800: But i'll ask him to update it..	12:06
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timeless	stskeeps: i was offered updateds for libtk2, libhildon, xserver-xorg	12:06
timeless	l10ns for ham, control panel, fm, libs	12:07
GAN800	X-Fade, I was a bit conservative with my changes last time around, but I think I'll make it match maemo-meeting etc this time.	12:07
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X-Fade	GAN800: Sure, no problem.	12:08
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Stskeeps	should be fine	12:18
Stskeeps	, timeless	12:18
timeless	gan:...	12:18
timeless	"Connection name already in use"	12:18
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timeless	oh cool	12:19
timeless	i got 'Operation failed' starting application manager :)	12:19
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StsN800	hehe. assume-connection issue	12:20
timeless	no	12:20
timeless	i have 0 catalogues	12:20
timeless	which sounds 'bad'	12:20
lcuk	timeless, should translation extend to logged error messages?	12:22
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* lcuk hopes not because theres more logging in my system than visible UI labels		12:24
StsN800	i will kill whoever makes syslog be in danish	12:24
lcuk	lol	12:24
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timeless	technically they should	12:24
timeless	gcc translates its error messages	12:24
lcuk	im thinking of the northern->english	12:24
timeless	in practice, doing it is usually stupid	12:24
lcuk	thats because gcc is entirely console	12:24
lcuk	its UI is the console	12:24
timeless	hrm	12:25
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timeless	for logging, i'd prefer just english i suppose :)	12:26
timeless	so um	12:26
timeless	why don't i have any catalogs in application manager?	12:26
lcuk	i dunno	12:27
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lcuk	bbiab, was just a ponderment	12:27
timeless	could someone pastebin /var/lib/osso-application-installer/catalogues.backup ?	12:27
* timeless likes how there are both available_updates and available-updates		12:28
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timeless	oh, osso-application-installer is a symlink, oh well, doesn't matter	12:29
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RST38h	remoo all	12:31
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StsN800	timeless, mer/sprints/0.7 indicate an issue with not assuming connection, it uses libconic and we have no icd	12:32
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timeless	sts: yeah, but... before i had things in catalog, iirc	12:32
StsN800	timeless, add assume-connection 1 to ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager i think	12:33
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timeless	i have that	12:33
StsN800	yeah but they dont show up until first update	12:33
StsN800	afaik	12:33
StsN800	k	12:33
timeless	can you check the catalogs list?	12:33
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timeless	in the ui	12:33
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StsN800	tools->catalogue i think	12:33
timeless	yes	12:33
timeless	what do you have there	12:33
timeless	i have nothing	12:34
yerga	X-Fade, ping	12:34
StsN800	not in mer atm	12:34
X-Fade	yerga: pong	12:34
timeless	can i pull in stuff from diablo extras?	12:34
StsN800	at gfs master thesis defense waiting for her outside:)	12:34
yerga	X-Fade, could you look that rss feed from my blog is in the planet?	12:34
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StsN800	timeless, some might work some not	12:35
X-Fade	yerga: I see your post?	12:35
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jaem	hello all	12:35
yerga	X-Fade, yeah, it post shouldn't be in the planet	12:35
X-Fade	yerga: You can see the url we use in the subscribtions column..	12:36
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yerga	X-Fade, ah thanks!	12:36
timeless	lol	12:36
timeless	apt-worker: too weak to get lock from 2735	12:36
jaem	haha	12:37
jaem	apt-crowbar?	12:37
jaem	apt-thermite?	12:37
jaem	much better	12:37
RST38h	Sts: What is the topic?	12:37
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StsN800	RST38h, of?	12:38
X-Fade	yerga: http://yerga.freehostia.com/blog/wp-rss2.php?cat=3	12:38
RST38h	Sts: the master thesis	12:38
yerga	X-Fade, yes, it's some problem in my part, it's redirected to the general feed	12:39
StsN800	RST38h, migration from poland to old eu member states and effect of this on national labour market, economy .. i thnk	12:40
yerga	X-Fade, I'll fix it before of shooting the planet with posts about cooking ;)	12:40
RST38h	Sts: Heh	12:40
X-Fade	yerga: Heh ;)	12:40
StsN800	when done she'll have two masters degrees:)	12:41
timeless	ok, killing the bogus lock fixed my catalog list	12:41
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jaem	I've discovered the true beauty of Linux	12:42
StsN800	interesting	12:42
jaem	...cron job'd pizza ordering	12:42
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jaem	or maybe that's just me being bored without my N810	12:43
StsN800	jaem, now think p	12:43
StsN800	nm	12:43
RST38h	jaem: Is it gonna pay and eat the ordered pizza too?	12:43
jaem	RST38h: the site has to have your credit card number	12:43
jaem	and it's only Domino's Pizza (wherever that may be aside from Canada/US)	12:43
jaem	but ArchLinux has a package for CLI pizza ordering	12:43
RST38h	umgh	12:44
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jaem	I don't have a credit card, but I'm tempted to configure it, just so I have a ~/.pizza_partyrc	12:45
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timeless	hrm	12:46
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timeless	someone should fix XChat to appear in communication or internet	12:46
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StsN800	i think it would ask if it could	12:47
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StsN800	not sure we have the menu chooser util atm	12:47
timeless	why doesn't hildon application manager show me fennec?	12:47
timeless	apt-cache offers it	12:47
StsN800	user/	12:47
timeless	mozilla.org -failed to refresh	12:48
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timeless	it's looking for binary-i386	12:48
timeless	but mozilla.org's path is binary-x86	12:49
StsN800	ah	12:49
timeless	iirc that's a bug in mozilla.org's arch	12:49
timeless	i'll file	12:49
jaem	how's fennec coming along these days? I haven't tried it in a while	12:50
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timeless	it's almost tolerable for basic testing (responsiveness)	12:50
jaem	that's good	12:51
jaem	it looked nice, but alpha1 was just painful to use	12:51
* timeless nods		12:51
jaem	I hope they get it working nicely	12:51
jaem	I was amused by the settings dialog	12:51
timeless	why?	12:51
jaem	the jokes	12:51
jaem	you didn't notice?	12:51
timeless	oh, phoenix had some when it first started	12:52
timeless	cookies are delicious delicacies	12:52
jaem	yes indeed	12:52
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jaem	I ate the last of mine this morning :(	12:52
jaem	but I can't buy any more any time soon, because I go through a box far too fast	12:52
jaem	lol	12:52
timeless	http://www.squarefree.com/2004/07/24/cookies-are-no-longer-delicious-delicacies/	12:53
timeless	https://www.squarefree.com/extensions/delicious-delicacies/	12:54
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jaem	ha	12:55
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lardman	morning all	12:57
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* jaem is not sure why he chose to compile an app on his P4 that would have worked just as well compiled on his other box, and then cp'd over		12:57
jaem	hey lardman	12:57
lardman	hi jaem	12:57
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jaem	I'm a bit annoyed at the moment... I have to recompile VirtualBox because the Arch packager forgot to include the module I need	12:59
jaem	I'm trying to get pfSense up and running for router awesomeness	13:00
jaem	speaking of, does Mer run properly in VBox these days?	13:00
Stskeeps	yup	13:01
jaem	yay	13:01
Jaffa	jaem: ran well last night for me :-)	13:01
Stskeeps	did already in 0.6	13:01
jaem	I haven't had a chance to try it yet, because my N810 died while booting it	13:01
jaem	or immediately before	13:01
Stskeeps	jffs or installer?	13:02
jaem	installer	13:02
jaem	I was wary about the jffs, given the warning, and the pre-release-ness	13:02
jaem	I figured that if I was going to void my warranty, I probably shouldn't void it too much :P	13:03
jaem	yet	13:03
StsN800	understandable	13:03
jaem	gah! my spacebar isn't working properly	13:03
StsN800	rootfs/initfs is safe, nolo overwriting is not	13:03
jaem	...that might be becaues I haven't bothered putting the screws back in my kbd	13:03
jaem	is nolo the bootloader?	13:04
StsN800	yeah, before kernel and initfs	13:04
jaem	okay - I'd heard it mentioned	13:04
jaem	does it stand for anything?	13:05
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timeless	oh brother	13:06
Stskeeps	nokia loader?:)	13:06
timeless	they didn't build fennec ofr x86	13:06
jaem	sts: oh, duh	13:07
StsN800	timeless, well there's no proper x86 hildon env..	13:07
Myrtti	nolo? it also means in Finnish http://www.sanakirja.org/search.php?q=nolo	13:07
timeless	does the autobuilder not support it?	13:07
jaem	Myrtti: hopefully Nokia isn't embarrassed by their bootloader ;)	13:08
Stskeeps	mortified maybe	13:09
Stskeeps	Myrtti: does 'mer' mean anything except for in swedish	13:09
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Stskeeps	jesus, 40 min exam so far	13:11
timeless	"Device not locked"	13:11
* timeless grumbles		13:11
timeless	anyone know what that means? :)	13:12
Stskeeps	that must be brutal	13:12
jaem	timeless: in what context?	13:12
timeless	jaem: that's no fun	13:12
timeless	but you saw a dialog that said 'enter lock code'	13:12
timeless	and something happened	13:12
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timeless	now you see that as an info banner	13:12
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jaem	timeless: my brains! they be boggling!	13:13
jaem	that was probably put in by a sadistic dev who just wanted to mess with you, personally and individually	13:13
jaem	seriously	13:13
timeless	would this make more sense: "Device lock not set"	13:13
jaem	possibly	13:14
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jaem	have you set a lock code?	13:14
timeless	it's trying to say that you decided not to set one	13:14
timeless	and obviously it's failing miserably	13:14
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jaem	timeless: I've seen worse issues	13:18
sandman	Does anyone have any idea as to when the next gen nokia tablet will come out?	13:18
timeless	"Device left without lock code"	13:18
timeless	?	13:18
sandman	The one that is supposedly going to use the OMAP3, etc?	13:18
timeless	jaem: oh sure, but, strings are fixable, kinda	13:18
jaem	like an error message in GNOME that basically said "Error: this error should not be shown in the GUI"	13:18
timeless	lol	13:18
jaem	true	13:19
Jaffa	sandman: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle	13:19
jaem	I've also had an autoconf script that apparently thought it had stored a cache file in /dev/null, and was trying to retrieve it	13:19
jaem	it had fun with that one :D	13:19
timeless	jaffa: any thoughts on the last strings i've pasted?	13:19
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Jaffa	timeless: "Device left without lock code" - when's it appear?	13:21
timeless	the first time you try to set the lock code	13:21
timeless	if you cancel the dialog	13:21
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Jaffa	timeless: Or, presumably, any time you go into the dialogue box when it's not set and press cancel.	13:21
timeless	sure	13:22
Jaffa	timeless: "Device lock code remains unset" - all a bit fugly and clumsy	13:22
sandman	Is the on-screen keyboard still available on the n810? I presume it is, of course	13:23
timeless	yes	13:23
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timeless	jaffa: ok, you click the battery icon	13:23
timeless	which is better:	13:23
timeless	"%d days (of use)"	13:23
timeless	"One day (in use)"	13:23
timeless	"When in use: %d hours"	13:23
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timeless	note that i'm interested in style	13:24
timeless	obviously people prefer 10 days of uptime under heavy use :)	13:24
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timeless	"One hour (active)"	13:24
jaem	I'd vote for "One day (in use)"	13:25
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Jaffa	timeless: Hmm. Perhaps just "%d minutes use, %d days maximum" (or s/maximum/standby/)	13:28
jaem	maximum seems a bit ambiguous to me	13:28
timeless	it isn't	13:28
timeless	i mean	13:28
timeless	it's true in testing i once had idle time < active time	13:29
timeless	but that was a bug :)	13:29
timeless	it should never happen :)	13:29
jaem	I just thought that "idle" sounds less ambiguous than "maximum", since it's the time you'll got get if it's idle, not just a general "best-case" under normal circumstances	13:30
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jaem	that said, it's just my two cents	13:30
timeless	"%d minutes of use" or "%d minutes use"	13:31
Jaffa	jaem: But what's idle? The user being idle?	13:31
timeless	fwiw, i have 'idling' atm	13:31
Jaffa	timeless: I'd prefer "use" to be a verb (i.e. the second), rather than the first where it's a noun.	13:31
timeless	"%d days (idling)"	13:31
jaem	Jaffa: I would interpret it as "the device sitting there not doing much"	13:31
timeless	jaem: truth be told, user has no clue whether device is doing much	13:32
jaem	fair point	13:32
timeless	w/o my battery drain indicator	13:32
timeless	which i haven't gotten them to impleemnt	13:32
timeless	s/em/me	13:32
jaem	my old English teacher has an N800... I could ask him what he thinks :D	13:32
* jaem is kidding		13:32
* timeless would really want that feedback		13:32
jaem	seriously?	13:32
timeless	seriously.	13:32
jaem	I can ask him, but it's not a sane hour right now	13:32
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timeless	oh sure	13:33
jaem	sure - I'll talk to him tomorrow	13:33
jaem	anything else you'd like me to ask?	13:33
timeless	anyway, i should have a package for testing in time for fosdem	13:33
timeless	so i'm not sure how i'd want his feedback atm	13:33
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jaem	well, I'll ask him, and let you know on #maemo, when you're around	13:33
jaem	and you can do with that what you will	13:34
pupnik	wow, got a lock indoors with new OS	13:34
pupnik	(!)	13:34
timeless	jaffa: would "%d days max." be ok?	13:34
timeless	i'd rather avoid writing out 'maximum'	13:34
timeless	hrm	13:36
timeless	"minutes max."	13:36
timeless	looks really bad	13:36
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jaem	timeless: I sent him an e-mail - hopefully I can get back to you about that tomorrow	13:39
timeless	or me that's ~+30h fwiw	13:40
jaem	okay	13:40
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sandman	I don't suppose it's possible to install maemo on an iPod touch, is it	13:58
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Jaffa	sandman: No, it's not.	13:59
Jaffa	I suppose a jailbroken iPod Touch may be able to run Mer at some long distant point, but I wouldn't hold your breath	14:00
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lcuk	when you have a translation item involving parameters (like the %d days, %d minutes thing) are you forced to use the original parameter order and what happens if the language reads right in a different order?	14:11
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Jaffa	lcuk: you're screwed, which is why Java translations use numbered inserts corresponding to argumetn order, eg. {0}, {1}, {2}, ...	14:40
zap	Anybody knows where's the mtdblock partitioning information stored? Is it possible to repartition it using different partition sizes?	14:41
b-man\|grogy	/proc/partitions, i believe	14:42
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b-man\|grogy	and you can use resize2fs for filesysm resizing	14:45
b-man\|grogy	allthough i'm not shure maemo has resize2fs :P	14:46
timeless_mer	where do i go to report bugs on xchat for maemo/mer?	14:48
b-man\|grogy	bugzilla :)	14:50
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Jaffa	b-man\|grogy: who's XChat port is it?	14:51
timeless_mer	oh, cool	14:51
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b-man\|grogy	jaffa: qwerty12's, i think	14:52
Jaffa	Ah, OK	14:52
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* b-man\|grogy gets some coffie		14:53
timeless_mer	Not all paths say /home/timeless	14:53
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AndrewFBlack	Morning	14:54
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b-man\|grogy	g'morning AndrewFBlack	14:55
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timeless_mer	so... the existence of an 'x' button in the bottom left of xchat is really annoying	15:04
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* b-man\|grogy finishes up ubuntu-rescue-menu in gimp		15:08
AndrewFBlack	b-man\|grogy, cool	15:09
b-man\|grogy	:)	15:09
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b1ackdeath	any one have tips on how i can monitor my bandwidth over bluetooth?	15:14
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wazd	hey everybody	15:20
StsN800	lo wazd	15:20
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StsN800	timeless, so besides the quirks mentioned, what do you think of mer so far?	15:22
b1ackdeath	any one know a altertive for bandwidthd for the n810	15:22
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lcuk	jaffa, thanks - i didnt think it would work (ive examined tran stuff in other languages a few times) ... mmm actually i think i can use the numbered parameters thing for printf as well, lemme dive in	15:39
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lcuk	ahhh no tis something else	15:41
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timeless_	it's pretty good	15:46
timeless_	that enter doesn't work on my laptop is a show stopper though...	15:46
timeless_	and i can't find a way to trigger the power button, so i can't safely shut down	15:46
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StsN800	hehe, yeah	15:52
* johnx returns		15:54
* RST38h returns too		15:54
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RST38h	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/30/american_stereotype/ =)	16:00
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johnx	RST38h, you're right. sometimes the register does manage a redeeming article of some sort	16:01
* RST38h does wonder what the redeeming quality of this article is though =)		16:02
johnx	it's actually funny	16:03
RST38h	heh	16:03
johnx	and also I get to use it at work :D	16:03
RST38h	aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh =)	16:03
johnx	can you say "example material"?	16:03
RST38h	johnx: Yea, I see what you mean now...	16:03
johnx	"Tell me about this picture."	16:04
RST38h	"What do you see on it?"	16:05
RST38h	"Would you have a beer with this man?"	16:05
johnx	"What would you say to start a conversation with him?"	16:05
RST38h	johnx: That is a trick question.	16:05
johnx	those are the best kind :)	16:06
johnx	I'm seriously going to figure out a way to use this. It's too perfect	16:09
RST38h	are you teaching kids or adults?	16:11
johnx	adults of various levels	16:12
johnx	I wouldn't spring this on an old lady or something, but I bet a college student would find this quite awesome	16:12
RST38h	just like in anime! =)	16:13
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johnx	I guess it's important to reinforce the stereotypes I try to dissolve, every so often	16:15
RST38h	Not all stereotypes are wrong, statistically...	16:16
johnx	yeah, but it's important that they get the idea of thinking about things at least a little flexibly	16:17
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Stskeeps	lo johnx	16:27
johnx	hey Stskeeps	16:27
RST38h	johnx: btw, how are they in terms of flexible/creative thinking?	16:27
RST38h	johnx: is it like the stereotype says or is it different?	16:27
johnx	RST38h, everyone is different, really. You can really see the difference in the people who were raised with an emphasis on being bilingual	16:28
RST38h	johnx: Ah	16:28
* RST38h previously noticed that just about everyone working in a university (PhD students included) has more or less the same thinking style independently of the country		16:29
RST38h	No idea what happens once you leave the ivory tower though	16:29
* suihkulokki you are unique - just like everyone else		16:30
johnx	I think learning a second language probably makes the biggest difference in how well a person can communicate in general	16:31
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soap	I think learning a first language helps as well. ;)	16:31
johnx	but that second language is what really teaches you how to use a second language	16:32
johnx	grrr..."how to use a first language"	16:33
* johnx fails at language		16:33
soap	it forces you to pay attention to structure and grammar, yes.	16:33
RST38h	johnx: But probably only if you can analyze trends	16:33
soap	because you are removed from the "learning" of hearing casual usage your entire life.	16:33
RST38h	soap: Actually, I tried taking an English grammar class in the US, for native speakers. Couldn't figure out what is going on.	16:34
wiza	except if the second language is english what you pretty much hear all the time :)	16:34
wiza	well, least in software industry :p	16:34
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johnx	I'm not sure it's the analysis so much as just figuring out how to say things a different way, how to explain around something you don't know how to say	16:34
RST38h	soap: The concepts they teach are just completley different, not the highly structured approach taught in English classes in .RU	16:35
RST38h	soap: But they do seem to be much easier to learn if you are already speaking English though	16:35
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RST38h	johnx: That is spoken, not written English, right?	16:36
johnx	RST38h, true	16:36
johnx	but, spoken english is the weakness here. they get reading & writing english from grade 6 onwards	16:37
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RST38h	johnx: Ah...do they write better than they speak though?	16:37
johnx	RST38h, yup :)	16:37
johnx	craziness no?	16:37
RST38h	I mean, written Japanese has nothing to do with "normal" European languages?	16:37
Veggen	johnx: grade 6? far too late...I think they start a bit even in grade 1 or 2, here.	16:38
RST38h	johnx: Not crazy enough but unusual	16:38
johnx	RST38h, oh, definitely no relation at all. but they learn written english in school and never get a chance to speak it	16:38
johnx	Veggen, the new programs starting now are starting spoken English in 1st grade	16:38
Veggen	mmm, that's better.	16:39
Veggen	I think we started in 3rd or 4th in my time.	16:39
RST38h	johnx: More jobs for laid off American workers! =)	16:39
johnx	RST38h, heh. it's weird, but I think most Americans would barely even consider moving to a different country as an option...	16:40
RST38h	johnx: Yes, it is somewhat of a step into the open space where be dragons :)	16:41
RST38h	johnx: Most Americans who do go outside for prolonged periods of time come back different though	16:41
johnx	RST38h, yeah. takes someone really weird to consider it I think :D	16:41
johnx	RST38h, oh. very much so.	16:41
RST38h	johnx: btw, US embassies rotate employees every 3 years or so	16:41
AndrewFBlack	I did see where Bank of america moved alot of jobs out of usa but gave the workers the chance to go and alot of them did they said the cost of living there made it where it was like the made more money	16:42
RST38h	Andrew: Not in EU though...	16:42
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johnx	there are tiers of foreignness I think :)	16:42
AndrewFBlack	no I think it was inda or somewhere it was part of there phone help devision	16:42
slonopotamus	hi	16:43
* RST38h wouldn't go to India. Would go to .TW though, if needed		16:43
johnx	AndrewFBlack, wow...quite impressive	16:43
johnx	I'd like to visit India for sure	16:43
johnx	In fact there are few places that I wouldn't visit if I had the chance	16:44
slonopotamus	where i can get mer linuxrc file?	16:44
RST38h	johnx: Ah, visiting wuld be no problem.	16:44
slonopotamus	if it has it :)	16:44
RST38h	johnx: But I would be kinda afraid to live there	16:44
johnx	slonopotamus, one sec :)	16:44
RST38h	johnx: Take 800+m population and this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pharmawater_india;_ylt=AjTvb3tZ_3yylM5U6885MEQDW7oF	16:45
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RST38h	johnx: Add up. Mix. Involve evolution theory.	16:46
johnx	RST38h, yeah, In India no one has the money to cover it up...or they don't bother.	16:46
RST38h	johnx: Oh, it is not only that	16:46
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RST38h	johnx: India is one of the largest drug producers, so the amounts of this crap will be higher	16:46
RST38h	johnx: It has got huge population in which little microbuggers can breed freely. And it is warm and wet, ideal for disease	16:47
slonopotamus	johnx, i'm very patient :)	16:47
lcuk	jaffa, re your mail, how do the kinetic hildon widgets work on device - are they default upgrades for existing apps or do existing apps need to reference the new controls to make em work?	16:47
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lcuk	(or anyone else with experience of mer on 810 itself)	16:48
johnx	slonopotamus, I believe the linuxrc is contained in the mer.tar.gz image. here it is on pastebin though: http://pastebin.ca/1322777	16:48
johnx	lcuk, haven't run into any kinetic widgets yet	16:49
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slonopotamus	johnx, hmm... i wonder how you built image then :)	16:49
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johnx	slonopotamus, with the imager	16:50
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RST38h	johnx: on the other hand, if we do get a geniune euroamerican plague, you can be sure that it will come from a chicken or pig farm ;)	16:50
slonopotamus	but where it took linuxrc from?	16:50
lcuk	johnx, jaffa just posted a message on the ML mentioning about them - i gather its the ones yerga showcased, would certainly be intering to see how they "feel" on device (i asked yerge a while ago, he hadnt either)	16:51
johnx	slonopotamus, might be included with imager. let me check	16:51
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slonopotamus	johnx, i wanna track its updates, but didn't find it on lp	16:52
johnx	nit-bootmenu-compat	16:54
johnx	dpkg -S /linuxrc # :)	16:54
AndrewFBlack	I wish there was a way to make my swap bigger then 128 without moving to my SD card	16:55
johnx	AndrewFBlack, why don't you have the GUI make a swap file, then delete the file and make a new one manually that's bigger?	16:55
slonopotamus	johnx, thanks	16:55
lcuk	johnx, does that work? :D	16:55
johnx	lcuk, it's worth a try. :)	16:56
slonopotamus	swap: just run swapon?	16:56
* lcuk thinks swap is generated by magic		16:56
lcuk	im still used to windows i think :D	16:56
lcuk	crap, bbl again	16:56
slonopotamus	lcuk, swap is an empty file initially	16:56
slonopotamus	and then swapon is run on it	16:57
lcuk	yeah slonopotamus but i thought it was a formatted fs	16:57
slonopotamus	lcuk, nope	16:57
lcuk	cool :)	16:57
johnx	slonopotamus, you're forgetting a step :P	16:57
johnx	mkswap /my-swap-file	16:57
lcuk	there is so many little things to learn :)	16:57
johnx	or mkswap /dev/hda6	16:57
slonopotamus	johnx, hmm... ok	16:57
lcuk	bbl	16:57
AndrewFBlack	johnx how do I do that?	16:58
slonopotamus	johnx, i think that just sets some magic bit, so you can't swapon on a useful file and corrupt it	16:59
johnx	slonopotamus, yeah, but it's not 'just an empty file.' It's some marked file at least	16:59
johnx	AndrewFBlack, one sec :)	16:59
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lcuk	apt-get install strength	17:00
johnx	you need to first create an empty file of the right size: dd if=/dev/zero of=/my-swap-file count=256 bs=1M	17:01
johnx	mkswap /my-swap-file	17:01
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johnx	but keep in mind you should be doing this to the file that the UI creates. I think this should be just fine...it doesn't regenerate the file on every reboot	17:02
johnx	~lart fremantle gtk or hildon for removing the cancel button from dialogs automagically	17:03
* infobot whips out a sword and chops fremantle gtk or hildon in half for removing the cancel button from dialogs automagically		17:03
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lcuk	johnx, really?	17:05
johnx	seems so	17:05
slonopotamus	hmm	17:05
lcuk	i tohught you made your own screens	17:05
johnx	only in certain cases I think	17:05
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slonopotamus	i use swapon on a separate sd card	17:05
johnx	lcuk, well, in some cases it's definitely dropping the cancel button...	17:06
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lcuk	booo hiss	17:06
* slonopotamus gets his hands dirty with linuxrc magic		17:07
johnx	AndrewFBlack, to create a blank file: dd if=/dev/zero of=./my-swap-file count=256 bs=1M	17:07
johnx	lcuk, yeah, I'm not amused either. it breaks my 'use swap' 'don't use swap' dialog...	17:08
rm_you	oh hey its a johnx/lcuk	17:08
johnx	hey rm_you	17:08
johnx	new mer image coming up on feb 1st :)	17:08
lcuk	thats GNU/lcuk actually	17:08
rm_you	you get around to doing anything on my server?	17:08
johnx	after that we'll conscript you :)	17:08
lcuk	:D	17:08
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rm_you	lol	17:08
rm_you	i may have more time now...	17:09
johnx	rm_you, ahaha. nope. I slept for 13 hours the other day and just got back from downtown	17:09
rm_you	lol	17:09
lcuk	i can has sleep too?	17:09
rm_you	well have fun whenever you do it... i gotta run to class now unfortunately :(	17:09
rm_you	lcuk: ya rly	17:09
rm_you	i'm back to getting 6 hours	17:09
rm_you	i guess that's not horrible...	17:09
rm_you	anyway, LATER! :)	17:09
lcuk	:D its caturday tomorrow	17:10
AStorm	yeah!	17:10
AStorm	moar cheezeburgerz	17:10
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lcuk	moar sleepinz	17:11
AStorm	that too	17:11
lcuk	then bacon :D	17:11
lcuk	i have barely slept this week, i need to hibernate	17:11
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johnx	lcuk, yeah, felt that the other day	17:11
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sisto	where can you buy a microsd to minisd adapter?	17:14
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AStorm	lcuk: :>	17:15
johnx	sisto, locally or over the internet?	17:15
sisto	preferably in NYC?	17:15
AndrewFBlack	wish there was a way to move Wayfinder maps to external card so I can swap that card out when I need the maps	17:15
sisto	otherwise on the internet	17:15
sisto	microsd cards seem to only come with SD adapters	17:16
AndrewFBlack	sams club sells there micro sd card with mini and full adapters if you just need adapter 1gb micro card is only $9	17:17
sisto	AndrewFBlack: thanks!	17:19
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AndrewFBlack	I have about half a dozen from the cards I have goten	17:19
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Grackle	http://code.google.com/p/blackgold/issues/detail?id=3 For your amusement.	17:21
AndrewFBlack	johnx, do I need to get root to make that file?	17:23
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johnx	AndrewFBlack, yes. but more importantly you need to find what file it is that the GUI makes when you enable swap	17:24
AndrewFBlack	how do I find that out?	17:25
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qwerty12	/media/mmc2/.swap	17:25
johnx	look on your SD card for it	17:25
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AndrewFBlack	so I would change my-swap-file with the name of the swap file?	17:27
johnx	right, but first you should run: swapoff /media/mmc2/.swap	17:28
AndrewFBlack	ok got that part done	17:29
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AndrewFBlack	what do I change to tell it how big to make the file?	17:29
johnx	you change the '256' to the size in MB	17:30
AndrewFBlack	whats a good size to make it?	17:30
johnx	really, i'm surprised you're going through 128MB of swap	17:30
johnx	Are you sure that's the problem in the first place?	17:31
AndrewFBlack	not really but I tend to lock my tablet up alot	17:31
johnx	if you really are running out of swap though, then maybe upping it to 256 would be a good start	17:31
johnx	ah, not necessarily out of memory	17:31
lcuk	johnx, some ummm special sites have problems with lots of large images	17:31
qwerty12	To get a 256MB swap file: swapoff /media/mmc2/.swap ; dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc2/.swap bs=1024 count=256000 ; mkswap /media/mmc2/.swap ; swapon /media/mmc2/.swap	17:31
AndrewFBlack	it might not be I just thought it was worth a try	17:31
lcuk	AndrewFBlack, whats your problem?	17:32
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AndrewFBlack	my tablet runs slow all the time and I lock it up atleast once a day while running several windows of browser or other programs	17:32
AndrewFBlack	I might just be maxing out the processor not sure	17:32
johnx	nah, you're probably right about memory :)	17:33
johnx	do what qwerty12 said :)	17:33
AndrewFBlack	ok	17:33
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AndrewFBlack	opps forgot a 0 first try lol	17:36
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AndrewFBlack	I wonder if i need to reflash there are days when the first bar on the Load Applet will be maxed out for a while but when I look at processes running I can't find anything using high %	17:39
AndrewFBlack	now just hope I can fit my wayfinder maps back on there	17:41
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RST38h	Andrew: install and run htop	17:45
RST38h	Andrew: make sure you run it in a large window over ssh connection, to get better view of the cf	17:46
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wazd_n800	woah, freenode is 12	17:48
wazd_n800	15 years	17:48
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wazd_n800	I was in the kindergarden when it started to worrk)	17:49
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StsN800	94? eh	17:50
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StsN800	it started as a channel	17:51
AndrewFBlack	RST38h, I installed it but how do I run it	17:51
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qwerty12	Any way of verifying if a binary uses maemo-launcher?	17:52
qwerty12	Bollocks, figured it out.	17:53
lardman	interesting method...	17:53
RST38h	Andrew: "htop" form a terminal	17:54
* RST38h once again feels himself an old fart		17:54
AndrewFBlack	got it running	17:54
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T3rmInAt0r	Hi guys, I would need some help	17:59
T3rmInAt0r	How may I start building deb files for maemo?	17:59
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T3rmInAt0r	(I downloaded the vmware version)	17:59
T3rmInAt0r	(of scratchbox)	17:59
T3rmInAt0r	any tutorials?	17:59
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brad10432	can someone help me port vnstat	17:59
T3rmInAt0r	(I can't find anything useful on google)	18:00
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slonopotamus	johnx, and what do you do to satisfy watchdog?	18:00
qwerty12	Feed it?	18:00
johnx	kick it	18:00
slonopotamus	johnx, just point me to right package :)	18:01
qwerty12	johnx, bad man.	18:01
johnx	we leave stuff in initfs running	18:01
johnx	there's a way to kick it through some interface in sys but I don't remember right now	18:01
johnx	and I'm cleaning up my apartment right now :)	18:01
slonopotamus	i see	18:02
qwerty12	/sys/devices/platform/retu-watchdog/period?	18:02
* qwerty12 smiles in glee as he gets epdfview working with maemo-launcher. He also remembers to run automake as well as autoconf next time.		18:03
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slonopotamus	63	18:05
slonopotamus	hmm	18:05
slonopotamus	why not 42?	18:05
brad10432	can any one help me get vnstat working http://packages.debian.org/lenny/armel/vnstat	18:05
slonopotamus	that would have some logic at least	18:05
qwerty12	A lot of decisions by Nokia don't have logic behind them, why would this one be different? :)	18:05
slonopotamus	qwerty12, heh. they're like ubuntu. maniacal patchers of everything	18:06
qwerty12	hehe	18:07
slonopotamus	qwerty12, and forkers :)	18:07
slonopotamus	why not send busybox patchees upstream? no, nokia will fork another busybox	18:07
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slonopotamus	johnx, why do you mount rootfs?	18:19
johnx	it's a remount isn't it?	18:19
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slonopotamus	oh, it's commented out	18:19
johnx	honestly Stskeeps did the linuxrc stuff. I handled things ... differently ... in debian when I was doing that	18:20
Stskeeps	it's a hack :P	18:20
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slonopotamus	crazy stuff	18:21
slonopotamus	chroot ${INITFS} /bin/mount -n -t proc none /proc	18:21
slonopotamus	you mount prooc inside initfs?	18:21
Stskeeps	yeah	18:21
Stskeeps	to be able to use the initfs stuff	18:22
slonopotamus	hmm	18:22
slonopotamus	like what?	18:22
slonopotamus	maemo doesn't do that and is happy	18:22
Stskeeps	which are you looking at, linuxrc?	18:23
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: linuxrc is second half of linuxrc in initfs	18:23
slonopotamus	nope, tablet-init	18:23
Stskeeps	ah	18:23
Stskeeps	tablet-init is a bit wrong	18:23
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RST38h	Alaska's volcanoes are not like Hawaii's. 'Most of them don't put out the red river of lava,' said the observatory's John Power. Instead, they typically explode and shoot ash 30,000 to 50,000 feet high more than nine miles into the jet stream	18:24
Stskeeps	don't use it as reference, slonopotamus	18:24
Stskeeps	(it doesn't work currently)	18:24
slonopotamus	i understand linuxrc. it doesn't do anything bad :)	18:24
RST38h	Suprisingly, it is not DailyRotten but Slashdot	18:24
slonopotamus	hehe	18:24
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slonopotamus	hmm	18:25
slonopotamus	you do not use tablet-init?	18:25
slonopotamus	they both call /sbin/init	18:25
Stskeeps	we -will- but tablet-init is for kernel going straight to rootfs	18:25
Stskeeps	without initfs	18:25
Stskeeps	a temporary hack	18:25
slonopotamus	don't tell me you have two inits	18:26
Stskeeps	we sadly have to as upstart may fuck up long enough till watchdog expires	18:26
slonopotamus	hmm	18:26
Stskeeps	so we want to start DSME and such early enough and set time	18:26
Stskeeps	it's not pretty	18:26
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Stskeeps	and not the permanent	18:26
slonopotamus	what stops watchdog from killing device while we are in bootmenu?	18:27
Stskeeps	dsme has started at that point	18:27
slonopotamus	why do you need to start it again?	18:27
qwerty12	No, dsme is not running at bootmenu time because the tablet gets shut off after 4 mins in usbnet mode	18:28
slonopotamus	4 mins != 63	18:28
Stskeeps	qwerty12: eh?	18:28
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qwerty12	Stskeeps, without rd-mode enabled, the tablet does get shut off after about 4 mins.	18:28
Stskeeps	qwerty12: that's the --root-mounted stuff	18:28
Stskeeps	not hw wd	18:29
slonopotamus	crazy stuff :)	18:29
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slonopotamus	i don't understand this crazy stuff :)	18:30
qwerty12	So don't I evidently :)	18:30
slonopotamus	does watchdog reboot tablet when in bootmenu or not?	18:30
johnx	ahaha...I totally didn't understand it even when making debian boot for the first time :)	18:30
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slonopotamus	if not, then why it starts wanting to reboot later?	18:31
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Stskeeps	anyway. the DSME source code is out	18:32
Stskeeps	go look at it!	18:32
Stskeeps	:P	18:32
slonopotamus	:(	18:33
slonopotamus	you're evil	18:33
r2d2rogers	Should I have to add anything to get the wifi driver to load on boot on the 770/mer	18:33
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: no, hal will prolly help with it	18:33
slonopotamus	heck, i'm just poor java programmer :)	18:33
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slonopotamus	does dsme do anything useful at all? :) or it is possible to be happy without it?	18:35
Stskeeps	yes, hw wd and thermal checks etc	18:35
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: isn't hal running already?	18:35
qwerty12	If I'm setting the hildon input mode for a password entry box to be HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_INVISIBLE, do I need to specify another mode to go with it?	18:35
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: well, does modprobe work?	18:36
slonopotamus	dsmetool looks like ugly start-stop-daemon replacement + renice functionality. am i right?	18:36
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: yup	18:37
slonopotamus	hw wd - ?	18:37
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: hardware watchdog kicker	18:37
slonopotamus	ah	18:37
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: hmm, should modprobe then	18:37
Stskeeps	i think	18:37
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, ok. but there isn't watchdog during bootmenu? :)	18:37
slonopotamus	thermal... heh. anyone got his tablet turned off because of hot?	18:38
Stskeeps	it is possible if wifi gets really warm	18:39
slonopotamus	did you have that?	18:40
Stskeeps	possible	18:40
slonopotamus	you do not answer my answer :)	18:40
slonopotamus	err... my question :)	18:41
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slonopotamus	hmm...	18:41
slonopotamus	i know what inits watchdog	18:42
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slonopotamus	/usr/sbin/kicker in initfs	18:42
Stskeeps	it kicks dsme	18:42
slonopotamus	omg	18:42
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Stskeeps	there's a wide range of WDs really	18:42
slonopotamus	who kills who? you messed up	18:43
Stskeeps	there's SW and HW watchdog	18:43
slonopotamus	do i need them enabled?	18:43
slonopotamus	i don't wannt them	18:44
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slonopotamus	they shut down my tablet when they want it, not when i want	18:44
slonopotamus	hw watchdog... i don't believe in it :)	18:44
Stskeeps	it's that or popping battery constantly or potentially run down your battery fatally	18:45
slonopotamus	ok, but that stuff doesn't require any software assistance, no? low battery - so what, poweroff	18:47
slonopotamus	of course software could monitor power level and gracefully shutdown earlier	18:47
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slonopotamus	i bet _you_ start 63 wd when do --root-mounted	18:49
slonopotamus	hehe	18:50
slonopotamus	that will be funny	18:50
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slonopotamus	will open boot menu and wait. if it doesn't turn off they i don't need dsme at all	18:51
crashanddie	slonopotamus: drugs are bad	18:53
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slonopotamus	crashanddie, uh?	18:54
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slonopotamus	gone for testing wd, see ya later	18:55
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herz1	has maemo.org just died?	19:00
qwerty12	nope	19:01
johnx	just slow	19:01
johnx	though I've been having DNS problems for a while	19:01
johnx	is that DDoS against Network Solutions still going on?	19:01
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slonopotamus	hmm	19:04
slonopotamus	turned off after 4 minutes	19:04
slonopotamus	~curse the bad thing that turned it off	19:05
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, the bad thing that turned it off !	19:05
AStorm	hey guys	19:05
AStorm	I need a nice screenshot app for a lot of screenshots	19:05
AStorm	easy to launch	19:05
slonopotamus	AStorm, osso-statusbar-cpu?	19:07
* Stskeeps notes that facebook cheats you so much when asking to switch your relationship status that the other person needs to confirm		19:07
Stskeeps	it switches without asking :>	19:07
AStorm	slonopotamus: did I mention simple to run?	19:07
Stskeeps	AStorm: load-applet	19:07
AStorm	no, too hard	19:07
AStorm	more like, press a button and have a screen	19:07
slonopotamus	AStorm, press menu item and have a screen :)	19:08
AStorm	too hard!	19:08
johnx	AStorm, sounds like you need to write one yourself :)	19:09
AStorm	heck, any "key launcher" + scrot util... please?	19:09
slonopotamus	you need 'think about it and have a screen'?	19:09
lcuk	astorm, i had the same problem (well mine was a bit more technical) liqbase does screenshots when you press fullscreen now :D its too easy, needs to be something similar for normal system (maybe with a bit more of a key combo	19:10
johnx	AStorm, how about something you can ssh in and run from the command line?	19:10
AStorm	...	19:11
AStorm	scrot would work	19:11
AStorm	even imagemagick	19:11
AStorm	but still need an actual app to launch it by pressing a key	19:11
johnx	I use xwd in mer	19:11
johnx	no idea about that kind of stuff since I have an n800	19:11
johnx	all my keys are pretty busy :)	19:12
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AStorm	uhh	19:13
Stskeeps	evening zenvoid	19:13
AStorm	even a dpad enter	19:13
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johnx	AStorm, problem is that the focused app will get it. I wonder if our version of matchbox supports keyboard shortcuts...	19:15
AStorm	hmmh	19:15
AStorm	what about grabbing it from X directly?	19:15
AStorm	you can do that with mouse, why not with keyboard?	19:15
AStorm	:P	19:15
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zenvoid	Stskeeps: Hi, if you see opengeekv2 online, can you please tell him that I'm creating system sounds?	19:16
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Stskeeps	zenvoid: yep, sure	19:17
Stskeeps	if you want you can probably take responsibility for the item and manage that part	19:17
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Stskeeps	to move it ahead	19:18
zenvoid	uggg... I hate the word "responsability" :-)	19:18
Stskeeps	hehe	19:18
Stskeeps	whatever word fits :)	19:18
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zenvoid	just trying to do them ;-)	19:18
lardman	Jaffa: any resolution?	19:19
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zenvoid	Stskeeps: I've copied the wavs to /usr/share/sounds in a normal maemo diablo, and I'm very happy with them, in fact like them more than the standard ones :)	19:20
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Stskeeps	zenvoid: for now commitments aren't that formal other than the person has indicated he would like to move them along, or something, i guess :P	19:20
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zenvoid	if anyone want to try, just backup your /usr/share/sounds dir and overwrite with this: http://zenvoid.org/tmp/sounds/	19:22
zenvoid	ui-*.wav	19:22
zenvoid	(have changed since yesterday, so download again)	19:23
qwerty12	AStorm, do you have an aversion to dirty hacks?	19:23
AStorm	qwerty12: not now	19:24
AStorm	because I need to make a ton of screenshots	19:24
AStorm	and I do mean need	19:24
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zenvoid	Stskeeps: all sounds are original, either synthesized from scratch or recorded in my personal sound studio	19:25
AndrewFBlack	why whats that link called where you link on folder to another?	19:25
lcuk	astorm, theres a vnc recorder somewhere	19:25
qwerty12	AStorm, In gconf, change /apps/osso/keybindings/global/osso-global-search to the button you want to map the screenshot function to (I chose "left" for testing). After that, mv /usr/bin/osso-global-search /usr/bin/osso-global-search1 and then vi /usr/bin/osso-global-search and make a script that runs your favourite screenshot app (for me, it was "fbgrab /media/mmc2/`echo $RANDOM`.png") and chmod +x it	19:27
AStorm	lcuk: uhhh	19:27
AStorm	vnc on n810?	19:27
qwerty12	When you press the button assigned, it will run the command in that script	19:27
AStorm	qwerty12: thanks!	19:27
AStorm	do we have a build of scrot?	19:27
qwerty12	Coming up, my sbox is idle :)	19:28
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qwerty12	AStorm, http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/swagga/	19:32
AStorm	qwerty12: btw, care to share your way of setting up sbox? (v1 or v2?)	19:33
qwerty12	AStorm, I'm on Ubuntu so the script does the work for me :)	19:33
AStorm	ahh	19:33
AStorm	I'm going to grab a beefy laptop with VT	19:33
AStorm	so might as well run Ubuntu in a kvm	19:34
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wazd	battery low sound is total overkill xD	19:38
wazd	It's like "you'll be dead soon" :)	19:39
zenvoid	haha, it was just my intention :)	19:39
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zenvoid	Stskeeps: I'm unable to post to jaiku mer channel	19:40
lardman	I've got a gstreamer image sink widget in a notebook, after I change tab the image vanishes, any thoughts as to what I've setup wrongly?	19:41
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wazd	And there's no connection with Mer thematics	19:41
wazd	Like sea or water	19:41
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wazd	or something else	19:41
wazd	I thought sounds to be smooth, calm :)	19:42
johnx	sounds like we should have more than one sound theme :)	19:43
zenvoid	opengeekv2 was trying to record sea sounds...	19:43
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wazd	zenvoid: nice	19:44
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zenvoid	they will be probably lower quality since they will be recorded with a laptop	19:45
zenvoid	unfortunately I can move the recording studio to the beach ;-)	19:46
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zenvoid	s/can/can't/	19:46
infobot	zenvoid meant: unfortunately I can't move the recording studio to the beach ;-)	19:46
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* zenvoid hates infobot		19:46
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AndrewFBlack	I wonder if http://wiki.lxde.org/en/LXLauncher would work on tablet?	19:53
johnx	AndrewFBlack, there should be a screenshot of it running in deblet	19:55
AndrewFBlack	so I should be able to get it to work on easy debain as well	19:55
johnx	yes, very likely	19:56
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ccooke	AndrewFBlack: looks like it should work	19:59
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AndrewFBlack	yeah i found some posts on it but can't find a deb for it and I suck and installing things from sources	20:00
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qwerty12	If your aim is to install this in easy debian, then apt-get install lxlauncher should work in the debian chroot	20:01
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AndrewFBlack	would I get best proformace from running Deblet or Easy Debian?	20:08
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AndrewFBlack	nice got it to work	20:13
RST38h	Andrew: Have you resolved that 100% cpu load problem?	20:14
AndrewFBlack	larger page file seemed to help some times i think i just have to many windows open	20:14
AndrewFBlack	swap file I mean	20:14
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* qwerty12 reprimands AndrewFBlack for thinking in windows		20:15
AndrewFBlack	qwerty12, I can't help it windows is just to easy, I havn't been able to pry my self sway from it on my desktops/laptops	20:16
qwerty12	hehe :p	20:16
RST38h	Andrew: Personally, I am experiencing bad delays when scrolling in mediabox or canola	20:16
RST38h	Andrew: 2-3 hours and the problem will resolve itself as battery runs out and windows laptop dies =)	20:17
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AndrewFBlack	RST38h, I don't use media players much mainly I surf the web but I tend to have 6 or so browers open lol	20:17
Stskeeps	zenvoid: it messes up occasionally	20:18
AndrewFBlack	well I have linux install on every computer I own but I just installed windows home server on my in house server and it got me hook to windows again	20:18
qwerty12	Anyone have any examples of getting a program to run with a file when launched over DBUS (i.e opened when user pressed Open in download screen in Browser) like most cli programs do when running "program file.ext"?	20:18
RST38h	Andrew: Should be harmless unless they are constantly running some JS	20:19
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AndrewFBlack	Normally I have itT, Gmail, and several other browers open pidgin and xchat and I seem to get alot of lag on the device I wonder if its because I havn't reflashed since i get diablo but I've been screwing with tablle talot	20:20
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* Stskeeps yawns		20:21
lcuk	AndrewFBlack, that sounds like the windows way "I havent reformatted in a while"	20:21
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lcuk	i last installed my desktop os in 2005	20:22
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lcuk	but in your case, you might be right	20:22
AndrewFBlack	well I've installed about 3 web servers and unstalled them, I installed rotate a few times and uninstalled them I thought that might mess it up	20:22
lcuk	qwerty12, you mean binary execution or mime identification and "edit"	20:22
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lcuk	AndrewFBlack, do you have flash running	20:23
lcuk	cos its a known killer on lots of tabs	20:23
AndrewFBlack	in browers? Sometimes	20:23
johnx	try disabling it except when you really need it	20:23
lcuk	try disabling it for a while and see if it improves	20:23
johnx	lots of ads use it	20:24
AndrewFBlack	I have add block running so I don't see many adds	20:24
AndrewFBlack	ads	20:24
Stskeeps	johnx: how's it going?	20:24
johnx	Stskeeps, pretty good. just building a new h-d-e and f-b-w	20:24
johnx	then going to sleep and up early to look at robots downtown tomorrow :)	20:25
johnx	early = weekend early = noon	20:25
Stskeeps	alright	20:25
Stskeeps	zenvoid: i got the #mer post	20:25
* johnx looks at the 0.7 sprint		20:26
Stskeeps	it's looking good so far	20:26
zenvoid	Stskeeps: oh, sorry, it was my fault, too many characters... it works ;-)	20:26
johnx	I think I can close that top 'coral action item' in a sec :)	20:26
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Stskeeps	coral? tomato :P	20:28
qwerty12	lcuk, thanks but I got it now :). I just need to add an handler for mime_open message :)	20:28
johnx	Stskeeps, crappy 18bit monitor here. :P	20:28
johnx	though I wouldn't eat a tomato that color...	20:29
Stskeeps	true	20:29
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Stskeeps	was cursor detection added to f-b-w?	20:29
johnx	yes, that's the latest reason for a rebuild :)	20:30
Stskeeps	k	20:30
johnx	I fixed swap and wallpaper and forgot it...but it's being built now	20:30
lcuk	qwerty12, cool, keep the code in your mind when you get it - i might have a use for it later :)	20:31
AndrewFBlack	you know whats funny is I really don't care about running debian apps I just hate the way hildon looks which is why I installed easy debian	20:31
* lcuk was just gonna get you the binary execute code		20:32
Stskeeps	AndrewFBlack: after a while hildon makes sense on tablets though	20:32
qwerty12	:)	20:32
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johnx	AndrewFBlack, from an aesthetic point of view or a usability point of view?	20:32
AndrewFBlack	aestethic lol, but I think something like lxde with lxlauncher would be better then hildon in both aesthetic and usability	20:33
johnx	AndrewFBlack, what type of situation do you use your tablet? and do you use your fingers or a stylus?	20:33
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AndrewFBlack	both but I tend to use stylus more I think	20:34
johnx	(sorry for the 20 questions. just curious about this kind of stuff :) )	20:34
AndrewFBlack	wife fusses at me because i keep my stylus in my mouth most of the time inbetween using it and typing	20:34
Stskeeps	johnx: i'll quickly test f-b-w	20:35
Stskeeps	for x86	20:35
johnx	ah, great	20:35
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johnx	hmm...I should keep a clean x86 virtualbox image around for testing...	20:36
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Stskeeps	it makes things a hell lot easier	20:37
Stskeeps	vmdk is good too	20:37
Stskeeps	182mb zipped :)	20:37
AndrewFBlack	I guess running lxde in debian chroot shouldn't be any slower then having away to run it right on top of maemo	20:37
Stskeeps	i would just apt-get install gdm or something and remove auto-startx :P	20:38
Stskeeps	(.. in mer)	20:39
Stskeeps	ow	20:39
johnx	eep?	20:39
Stskeeps	johnx: line 118 unterminated quoted string	20:39
Stskeeps	in f-b-w	20:39
johnx	aaaugh	20:39
Stskeeps	ah.	20:40
Stskeeps	swap detection	20:40
Stskeeps	you rely on the machine having mmc	20:40
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Stskeeps	it fails at trying to find /dev/mmcblk?	20:41
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johnx	it shouldn't kill the script though	20:42
johnx	hmm...I'd test but my n800 isn't charging ...	20:43
Stskeeps	mm, i commented out the swap thing and it goes through	20:43
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johnx	nope. not the missing mmc device...just a missing "	20:48
Stskeeps	k	20:48
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johnx	after .7 I'll change how it searches for swap to be more platform independent. any objections to it being mmc-only for 0.7?	20:51
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johnx	mainly swap is only needed for devices with 64MB of RAM	20:52
Stskeeps	that's fine	20:52
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RST38h	Ooooohhh, finally: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/01/missile_silo_apple_logo2_01.jpg	21:00
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johnx	Who's iCBM?	21:01
Stskeeps	commodore?	21:02
Stskeeps	:P	21:02
Stskeeps	we so have to get OpenTTD going on Mer..	21:04
Stskeeps	that said, i probably had quite a bit of wine tonight :P	21:04
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herz1	does anyone have issues logging in on maemo.org (eg. to add a new application)?	21:04
johnx	Stskeeps, that'll be me tomorrow night :)	21:05
Stskeeps	fiancée passed her masters thesis defense so :)	21:05
johnx	ah, good news :)	21:05
johnx	so, did she beat you to it?	21:06
Stskeeps	yeah, she is 2 masters degrees ahead of me	21:06
johnx	gah O_o	21:06
johnx	insanity	21:06
Stskeeps	sometimes i wonder how on earth i managed to get someone both cute and intelligent	21:06
Stskeeps	:P	21:06
GAN800	Stskeeps, she's a spy.	21:08
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johnx	well, I think you're both insane, so I'm sure you'll be very happy together :)	21:09
RST38h	johnx: Steve Jobs is probably preparing a will...of a kind	21:09
RST38h	GAN: Spying for whom? =)	21:09
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johnx	RST38h, might not be a missile at all. Might just be his ticket off this rock to rejoin his brethren in space	21:09
RST38h	johnx: ...who are gonna cure him and make him superhuman	21:10
johnx	I mean that iMac 'puck' mouse should have been everyone's first clue	21:10
RST38h	he isn't a scientolog, is he?	21:10
wazd	Stskeeps: fiancée <- do you have russian layout?)	21:10
johnx	nope. probably just a scientologist	21:10
Stskeeps	wazd: nah, dead ´	21:10
Stskeeps	so i can do accents	21:10
Stskeeps	(dk layout)	21:10
wazd	Stskeeps: well, it shows é to me :)	21:11
RST38h	wazd: He is European, American barbarians will just use "fiancee" =)	21:11
Stskeeps	or i actually had british english and french in school	21:12
Stskeeps	:P	21:12
slonopotamus_	what's mce?	21:12
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GAN800	machine control entity	21:12
wazd	I don't know how to type accents so I'm a Barbarian I think xD	21:13
slonopotamus	err... what's its main purpose?	21:13
RST38h	johnx: Well, iMac was nothing compared to this: http://www.amazon.com/Harman-SoundSticks-II-Multimedia-Speaker/dp/B0001DBEM4/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_image_0	21:13
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RST38h	wazd: Europeans have got a special accented charset for that =)	21:13
RST38h	cp1252 I think	21:13
wazd	RST38h: ah)	21:13
jaska	cp1252 is just the usual windows charset	21:14
jaska	i never bother with accented chars beyond the finnish ä ö umlauts	21:14
RST38h	johnx: Can you imagine all kinds of evil experiments that can be inflicted on a mac user with these?	21:14
RST38h	jaska: not for everybody	21:15
lcuk	meh! im too tired	21:15
GAN800	slono, hardware control. Backlight, screen, touchscreen, keys, wifi, bt, leds.	21:15
johnx	RST38h, subjecting them to crappy sounding music maybe? shrugs	21:15
RST38h	jaska: as far as I am concerned, cp1251 is the usual	21:15
jaska	ah.. i mix those two up	21:15
RST38h	johnx: I can't believe that is ALL you can come up with =)	21:15
johnx	RST38h, must be tired :P	21:16
jaska	then again, im just a finnish barbarian :D	21:16
RST38h	jaska: you are not	21:16
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RST38h	jaska: cp1252 is what EU generally gets. But it has no cyrillics, so most Russians (inside .RU and outside) use cp1251 instead	21:16
slonopotamus	GAN800, via dbus?	21:17
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slonopotamus	GAN800, it is a dbus -> hardware bridge, right?	21:17
johnx	eep...forgot build-x86 for h-d-e	21:18
slonopotamus	RST38h, russians use unicode :) only russian windows uses cp1251	21:18
johnx	luckily I was only competing for builder time with myself	21:18
RST38h	slono: Even in the Unix console? :)	21:19
slonopotamus	uh...	21:19
RST38h	slono: and in your filenames too? =)	21:19
* johnx uses a UTF8 console :)		21:19
slonopotamus	unix console is a pain	21:19
RST38h	slono: naah, you set it to koi8 or cp1251 and it works like a charm	21:19
slonopotamus	i mean alt+f1, etc. it's 8-bit	21:20
slonopotamus	however who uses it these days...	21:20
slonopotamus	and if someone does (for example, if x crashed), he doesn't need russian letters	21:21
* RST38h uses it, sshing to a remote host		21:21
RST38h	From, heh, Windows!	21:21
slonopotamus	no-no	21:22
johnx	RST38h, he means the actual VT	21:22
tekonivel	it seems to me that even idle programs consume battery power on my m800, am i hallucinating	21:22
RST38h	Ah, he means the physical console	21:22
slonopotamus	if you're in x, then all is utf-8	21:22
tekonivel	?	21:22
slonopotamus	yees	21:22
slonopotamus	physical	21:22
johnx	RST38h, well, not that either :P	21:22
RST38h	tekonivel: they well may	21:22
RST38h	slono: there are also ssh users	21:22
tekonivel	RST38h: i left pdf reader open, and the battery seemed to be depleting quite rapidly	21:23
johnx	I think his point is that ssh and xterm are 'terminal emulators' not actually the 'linux console'	21:23
RST38h	tekonivel: depending on whether the program is waiting for some event or waiting for timer and waking up every few seconds	21:23
slonopotamus	everything but physical console is ok with utf-8	21:23
tekonivel	bluetooth was off (it takes quite a bit of juice)	21:23
RST38h	johnx: doesn't matter as far as charsets are concerned	21:23
tekonivel	RST38h: i guess the pdf reader is waiting for input events, so that might be the reason	21:24
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r2d2rogers	Anyonw know the command line command for the network connections dialog in Mer?	21:24
slonopotamus	rst38h, it does matter	21:24
RST38h	tekonivel: only if it does so improperly :)	21:24
johnx	r2d2rogers, nm-applet	21:24
johnx	ah, or the dialog itself	21:24
johnx	one sec	21:25
RST38h	slono: utf-8 is pretty much broken for me, even on ssh	21:25
* tekonivel better learn to shut down programs		21:25
tekonivel	or recharge daily	21:25
r2d2rogers	yeah the dialog...	21:25
r2d2rogers	it's not letting my hit apply, suspectiong permissions	21:26
johnx	r2d2rogers, nm-connection-editor	21:26
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r2d2rogers	johnx: thanks	21:28
r2d2rogers	seeing invalid setting for wireless security	21:29
Stskeeps	yeah	21:29
Stskeeps	WPA patch needed probabl	21:29
Stskeeps	y	21:29
r2d2rogers	but I think I have wireless mostly there now	21:30
r2d2rogers	the modules from OS2008HE DO seem to work...	21:30
r2d2rogers	I just wasn't using them right	21:30
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Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: k - prolly need to compile them to add properly wireless extensions and such	21:30
Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/cx3110.txt is a patch i use to get WPA and such going	21:30
r2d2rogers	am I right in thinking I need the kernel source available also?	21:32
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, smart patch :)	21:33
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: yeah and cx3110x source :P	21:33
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: i was astonished it worked	21:33
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: I do have that <G>	21:34
r2d2rogers	and some patches..	21:34
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, that's what they name hacking :)	21:34
johnx	that's a patch?	21:34
johnx	looks more like a vague suggestion...	21:35
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Stskeeps	johnx: so are patches usually	21:36
Stskeeps	:P	21:36
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johnx	seriously though...you can apply that with /usr/bin/patch?	21:36
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woglinde	hi	21:36
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woglinde	hm I got openjdk compiled	21:37
Stskeeps	johnx: nah	21:37
brdusr	please anyone can help me to flash my 810 to diablo ???	21:38
Stskeeps	with a bit of syntax, maybe	21:38
johnx	Stskeeps, ah, ok. I feel better about the world	21:38
Stskeeps	~flashing	21:38
infobot	flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	21:38
Stskeeps	-> brdusr	21:38
brdusr	thank you	21:38
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slonopotamus	woglinde, for arm?	21:40
brdusr	hmm cant find a step by step how to for linux any known other links ???	21:40
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Stskeeps	brdusr: that is the most preciseone..	21:40
Stskeeps	and "???"'s are so 90's.	21:41
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brdusr	hmm yes but im using ubuntu and dont know witch tool i have to use for flashing my tablet	21:41
qwerty12_N800	¿¿¿'s are 2009	21:42
johnx	brdusr, you need flasher-3.0	21:42
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johnx	there is a link on the page to download it	21:42
brdusr	ok thank you :-)	21:42
woglinde	~flasher	21:45
infobot	it has been said that flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher	21:45
johnx	I should knock together a GUI flasher for linux based on zenity...	21:45
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lcuk	johnx, if you do, couple ot with DSL and make a mini livecd for people :)	21:47
lcuk	tablet recovery/assistance tools	21:48
johnx	lcuk, for people who have computers but no operating system?	21:48
lcuk	for people who have windows but want more control than the windows flasher	21:48
johnx	if I make a flashing 'GUI' it will do one thing: flash whatever firmware image you select	21:49
qwerty12_N800	For people who want to use the numerous features provided by the linux flasher that are not in the windows one	21:49
lcuk	+1	21:49
lcuk	mind you, those people are nearly at linux on desktop stage anyway	21:49
johnx	I don't see any reason to make a GUI to do things that people who are afraid of the command line probably shouldn't be doing..	21:50
brdusr	OS 2008 version 5.2008.43-7 <-- is this the last stable version?	21:50
slonopotamus	what do i need to see text console on n8x0? fb_update_mode, chvt 1?	21:50
qwerty12_N800	brdusr, yer	21:50
brdusr	thx :-)	21:50
johnx	slonopotamus, and some modules. search 'remove bootsplash' on itt	21:50
slonopotamus	johnx, k	21:51
RST38h	slono <-- got excited by the console talk earlier =)	21:52
slonopotamus	nope, just trying to see what my gentoo is doing	21:52
RST38h	ah	21:52
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slonopotamus	and i think it's doing	21:53
slonopotamus	because otherwise i'd get 'could not boot from bla-bla-bla, booting from flash' from bootmenu	21:53
slonopotamus	too many froms...	21:54
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slonopotamus	i bet needed modules are not avaiilable in initfs :)	21:56
johnx	correct	21:56
johnx	need to grab them or compile them	21:56
slonopotamus	hehe	21:56
qwerty12_N800	nope, you add them yourself	21:56
slonopotamus	nokia becomespredictable :)	21:57
slonopotamus	s/becomespredictable/becomes predictable/	21:57
infobot	slonopotamus meant: nokia becomes predictable :)	21:57
slonopotamus	why clear screen is white, not black? :)	21:59
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slonopotamus	hmm... instead of CONFIG_FB_MANUAL_UPDATE=y i can use fb_update_mode, right?	22:00
johnx	yes	22:01
qwerty12_N800	yp	22:01
qwerty12_N800	s/yp/yep/	22:01
infobot	qwerty12_N800 meant: yep	22:01
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brdusr	ok i download the maemo image bin file and this file: flasher-3.0.amd64 ... how i use this file, because sudo flasher-3.0.amd64 dosnt work	22:03
qwerty12_N800	chmod +x	22:04
brdusr	ok	22:04
qwerty12_N800	chmod +x flasher-3.0.amd64 I guess then...	22:04
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brdusr	i make this +x but nothing runs ... command not found oO	22:06
johnx	are you sure you're using a 64-bit linux distro?	22:06
brdusr	shure	22:06
qwerty12_N800	./flasher-3.0.amd64 ?	22:06
brdusr	ubuntu 8.10 amd64	22:06
brdusr	oh i try it mom	22:06
brdusr	yes it runs ... thank you ery much	22:07
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Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: sorry it took so long..	22:07
Meiz_n810	latest mer works great	22:07
Meiz_n810	but still no Fn key..	22:08
slonopotamus	does it run on chvt 1 in bootmenu? x switches to chvt 2, right?	22:08
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johnx	slonopotamus, the boot messages should be on vt 1	22:08
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slonopotamus	good	22:09
slonopotamus	looks like i groked it :)	22:09
slonopotamus	much simpler than crazy wd stuff	22:09
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andrewfblack4	look there is two of me :)	22:10
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* RST38h waits for someone to boot FreeBSD on NIT		22:12
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johnx	RST38h, goodluckwiththat	22:12
slonopotamus	how i put files into initfs? hack initfs_flasher?	22:12
johnx	mount -o rw,remount /mnt/initfs ; cp foo /mnt/initfs/	22:13
brdusr	witch one is the "SWAP" Button on the 810 ???	22:13
RST38h	sorry for a possibly stupid question but can't you mount initfs image?	22:13
johnx	might need to free some space first	22:13
RST38h	brduser: two intersecting squares	22:13
johnx	brdusr, the button left of the screen with two boxes	22:13
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, yes, i've done it before & made new images	22:13
brdusr	thank you :-)	22:13
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keesj	RST38h: I colleage of mine stated porting bsd kernel to beagle	22:15
RST38h	qwerty: If you were the one who uploaded Othello port to Extras, check that it updates all the icons properly - it shows the default icon in the menu	22:15
brdusr	"""USB device not found, waiting""" how long i have to push the swap button because nothing happens	22:15
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, not mine	22:16
RST38h	~10-15 seconds	22:16
RST38h	qwerty: ok =)	22:16
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slonopotamus	johnx, cheater!	22:16
RST38h	keesj: Yes, yessssss!	22:16
johnx	brdusr, does it show the usb icon on the n810 screen	22:16
brdusr	the screen is black	22:16
johnx	brdusr, is it on?	22:16
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brdusr	no Oo	22:16
RST38h	brdusr: something is wrong then	22:16
RST38h	got it?	22:17
johnx	brdusr, did you press the 'on' button?	22:17
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, you want Till Haurbaum (Master of Gizmo on itt) :)	22:17
brdusr	no the wiki says ... push the swap button	22:17
johnx	brdusr, "switch on your tablet while holding the..."	22:18
brdusr	oh ok ...	22:18
johnx	RST38h, so what are you planning to run on BSD?	22:19
brdusr	USB device found found at bus 001, device address 013	22:19
brdusr	Error claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted	22:19
brdusr	alpha@f7:~$	22:19
brdusr	oO	22:19
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brdusr	what happend?	22:19
qwerty12_N800	Run with sudo	22:19
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GAN800	crashanddie's new role is the ray of sanity on the lists.	22:20
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brdusr	yes it runs :-D your all Great --- thank you so much !!!	22:22
qwerty12_N800	no problem :)	22:22
johnx	brdusr, glad to hear :)	22:22
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brdusr	wow realy fast ... i believed it will takes min. 30minutes but all have done ... wow	22:24
RST38h	qwerty: thanks, I will harass them next time I see him on itt =)	22:24
* GAN800 starts stabbing people using Freemantle.		22:24
RST38h	johnx: just want a reliable kernel and userland I am used to	22:24
* RST38h installs Elephanta on GAN800		22:25
johnx	RST38h, so you'll just stick with command line tools?	22:25
RST38h	johnx: Naah, it should run all the gtk stuff just fine	22:25
* qwerty12_N800 W@Nt$ f®€€M@Ntle now		22:25
johnx	RST38h, so you're going to do the 'mer' equivalent for bsd? :D	22:25
RST38h	johnx: I wish for the mer equivalent of BSD	22:26
*** lardman\|out is now known as lardman		22:26
johnx	GAN800, just be glad they skipped Elephants and went straight for Freemantle	22:26
* GAN800 stabs johnx		22:26
RST38h	johnx: not going to do it though, haven't slept much for the last years as things are	22:26
* RST38h likes the E-word		22:26
johnx	RST38h, you might be pleasantly surprised with the sanity level of a very cut-down ubuntu	22:27
lcuk	:D elephanta wouldv been a phone. we were destined to make trunk calls with it	22:27
johnx	gaaah	22:27
* johnx dies		22:27
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woglinde	uh	22:29
woglinde	./openjdk-/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-o/bin/java -version	22:30
woglinde	java version "1.6.0_0"	22:30
woglinde	IcedTea6 1.3.1 Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_0-b12)	22:30
woglinde	OpenJDK Core VM (build 1.6.0_0-b12, interpreted mode)	22:30
woglinde	sorry for spam	22:30
johnx	very cool :)	22:30
lcuk	thats not spam	22:30
johnx	so what kind of apps does that get us?	22:30
woglinde	have to test	22:30
woglinde	whats running	22:30
woglinde	but the jre is around 80 mb	22:30
lcuk	why does my mind not want to work tonight	22:30
RST38h	johnx: Ubuntu is the first Linux I can use without throwing up at regular basis	22:30
johnx	RST38h, You'd probably really like debian in that case	22:31
RST38h	johnx: The weird part is, I could even TELL what was wrong with each previous distribution, down to very low level detail	22:31
RST38h	johnx: Maybe, skipped over it	22:31
RST38h	johnx: The first one I have ever seen was RedHat (circa 1996). It paniced on failed DNS lookup =)	22:32
johnx	RST38h, imagine a version of ubuntu that didn't get in your way quite as much	22:32
RST38h	johnx: Ubuntu does not, I am old now, not interested in borking operating system	22:32
johnx	sorry to any RH fans...but, every version of redhat I tried was a disaster	22:32
RST38h	johnx: Oh, yes, RedHat fucked me up pretty consistently	22:33
RST38h	johnx: Ate parts of my PhD thesis once (enterprise version of redhat with corporate support contract had the latest kernel that was incompatible with nfs)	22:33
johnx	me too. I admin'ed some RHCE4 server in a past life	22:33
RST38h	johnx: it also had 3-4 different admin toolsets, none of them usable :)	22:34
johnx	debuntu is the only thing I've found that can apply updates sanely	22:34
johnx	and that's really debian more than ubuntu :)	22:34
RST38h	johnx: Now, SuSE killed my MBR once. Had to edit it MANUALLY because neither Linux nor Windows FDISK could fix it	22:34
RST38h	johnx: SuSE installation program had a mistake	22:35
johnx	nice	22:35
RST38h	johnx: Also, it copied audio drivers into /tmp but did not install them	22:35
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RST38h	johnx: and required full kernel sources just to compile Hello World	22:35
RST38h	and did not install libg++ and appropriate headers	22:35
woglinde	rst better stay with vms	22:36
RST38h	woglinde: VMS was ok by comparison	22:36
RST38h	woglinde: I hope you mean the DEC VMS, not similarly named IBM abomination	22:36
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woglinde	rst I meant vms from DEC yes	22:37
GAN800	Hi, qgil	22:37
woglinde	from ibm i5os rockz	22:37
RST38h	woglinde: No problem at all. A little bit weird to see version numbers in file names, but pretty decent otherwise	22:37
RST38h	woglinde: Just in case you wonder, preceding RT-11 was also fine.	22:38
lardman	hi qgil	22:38
lardman	hi chaps	22:38
RST38h	moo lardman	22:38
lardman	moooo	22:38
qwerty12_N800	hi lardman	22:38
woglinde	hi lardman	22:39
lardman	qwerty12_N800: you saying candles and n900 doens't go? ;)	22:39
lardman	hey woglinde	22:39
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j1nyc	has anybody here tried to use Squish on the maemo?	22:39
qwerty12_N800	lardman, well, I was thinking more about the camera...	22:39
qgil	hi there	22:39
lardman	qwerty12_N800: I guess that mode will disable the LEDs and shutter sounds too ;)	22:40
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qwerty12_N800	One would hope so...	22:40
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lardman	qgil: what brings you lurking here at this time of the evening? :)	22:41
lcuk	they wanna make silent cameras illegal in america.	22:41
johnx	j1nyc, what is squish?	22:41
lardman	lcuk: like in Japan?	22:41
lcuk	yeah, but i wonder how it would work in video mode	22:42
qgil	lardman: that's a good question, as if I wouldn't have enough Maemo at this point of the week. :)	22:42
johnx	it just yells "I'm taking a video of yoooouuuu!" over and over	22:42
j1nyc	johnx: squish is an automated testing tool for Qt (among other things)	22:42
lardman	lcuk: you have the 35mm reel noise, tick-a-tick-a-tick-a-tick-a-tick	22:42
* lcuk passes out beer and BLTs to the hardworking maemo ppl		22:42
lcuk	heh yeah	22:42
lardman	qgil: :)	22:42
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lcuk	quim, did you ever find a movie download service you liked?	22:43
qgil	lcuk: well, no. I gues isohunt doesn't count but I can say I tried	22:45
qgil	public library and videoclub keeps me in the bright side, I guess	22:45
lcuk	lol	22:46
lcuk	:) it would be good to have a favorite movies list for us all to pitch into and send dvds around	22:47
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GAN800	Netflix is good for streaming	22:47
qgil	I was attempting to think on how to combine the selected Fremantle Stars with http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Collaboration_infrastructure and http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26147 to create a good collaboration environment about those projects - but my brain is only useful at this point for chats and microblogging	22:47
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t_s_o	this must be a silly thing im doing, copying everything from sd card in N800 via usb onto a new, larger sd card in a usb card reader...	22:48
lardman	use the stars to demonstrate the use of the infrastructure/community coop?	22:48
lcuk	qgil, i was thinking of expanding slightly and collaborating with another project i feel passionately about. the barcode application is a natural extension to having the camera on (which liqbase will do quickly and freely) im wanting to open up dev on that aspect and get the barcode app integrated	22:49
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lardman	oi!	22:49
lcuk	its you i want as part of it! :P	22:49
lardman	ah :)	22:49
johnx	crisis averted!	22:50
* lardman tells broker to stop buying up shares in barcode app		22:50
lcuk	so qgil i was already thinking about your collab stuff, ill discuss with simon and we will open up the dev properly and hopefully all learn something from it	22:50
qgil	well, Nokia is saying that if these projects are ready they will be showcased and promoted - this doesn't happen every day and I think it might represent an interesting challenge for the fans of those projects and the free/community software in general	22:51
lardman	well it's for all the projects really, and each will have different aspects that can have a community aspect I guess	22:51
lcuk	yeah	22:52
* lardman notes too many aspects; don't write prose after being in the pub		22:52
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qgil	lcuk: I won't tell you anymore that perhaps you need more focus in the core of liqbase: sketch, image caption + graffitti wall + the great UI (and the online component?)wrapping this up.	22:53
brdusr	wow much thinks to lern on this little think	22:54
* RST38h gets a feeling of deja vu		22:54
lcuk	qgil i 100% agree and my core library is coming on really nicely there were a lot of things which i simply could not do before which are now possible	22:54
RST38h	Haven't I said that once? =)	22:54
wazd	qgil: can't wait to fire ideas foe new OMWeather :)	22:54
brdusr	how i can reach all files on the 810 over USB ??? root and other folders ???	22:55
johnx	brdusr, no. only files on the mini sd card and 2GB 'internal card'	22:55
qgil	btw, any media developer around with first impressions about MAFW https://garage.maemo.org/docman/view.php/885/368/mafw-maemo-fremantle-draft.pdf ?	22:55
woglinde	brdusr nope	22:55
lardman	brdusr: ethernet-over-usb	22:55
lardman	brdusr: then sftp	22:55
woglinde	scp	22:55
qwerty12_N800	sftp, browsing is nice.	22:56
woglinde	I always disable sftp support on sshd	22:56
brdusr	sftp ... ok thank you	22:56
lardman	qgil: not a media developer, but looks nice to remove the drudgery and allow people to focus on cool features/interfaces	22:56
woglinde	hm	22:56
qgil	hi wazd, the omweather lovers have now the opportunity to collaborate in a community widget beating the commercial alternatives face to face	22:56
lardman	brdusr: but you need to do some fiddling with kernel modules to get ethernet rather than mass storage - you have been warned! ;)	22:57
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: errors on trying to compile cx3110x: make: *** SUBDIRS=/usr/src/cx3110x-0.8.1/src: No such file or directory. Stop.	22:57
brdusr	Oô	22:57
lardman	insmod g_ether.ko	22:58
lardman	or rather insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/g_ether.ko	22:58
johnx	brdusr, you can install openssh on your n810 and access files using sftp with nautilus in gnome over wifi	22:58
brdusr	crazy :-( my ubuntu is much easyler to use LOL	22:58
johnx	no need to mess with usb ethernet unless you want to	22:59
lardman	brdusr: as johnx says, why not use wifi?	22:59
qgil	and about collaboration, ITt threads are getting quite <your adjective here> these days and some people could discover that there is actually lots of fun behind project centric discussions, bugs and wiki pages	22:59
brdusr	yes, will try the openssh and wifi stuff	22:59
*** lfelipe[AWAY] is now known as lfelipe		23:00
wazd	qgil: we in OMW theam were really surprised to see Foreca on Maemo. Since it's commercial app on symbian	23:01
brdusr	now with your help i have diablo .. earlyer i got some conection problems - hope with diablo runs better	23:01
RST38h	qgil: comment: why not use URLs to specify source addresses?	23:02
brdusr	btw how i can share my phone contacts with the 810 ???	23:03
wazd	The only problem of open-source weather applet is that noone wants to provide info for free	23:03
RST38h	qgil: another comment: this wonderful framework does not specify what I should do if I just want to synthesize and play my own audio stream	23:03
qgil	wazd: almost same here, but this is just a proof of what I wrote this morning at http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-January/054090.html	23:03
RST38h	qgil: btw, the gstreamer framework does not specify this either	23:03
johnx	brdusr, does your phone have bluetooth?	23:03
lardman	RST38h: you use Gstreamer still for the backend	23:03
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brdusr	yes its the 6500 slider	23:03
RST38h	lardman: currently I have to use ESD	23:03
RST38h	lardman: Also not documented	23:04
johnx	brdusr, try sending the contacts via bluetooth	23:04
lardman	RST38h: I think you can use a fakesource object	23:04
qgil	RST38h: are you commenting about MAFW? Don't ask me since your questions will be lost behind my lack of developer skills :)	23:04
RST38h	lardman: there is no documentation and no examples on this	23:04
lardman	and use that to send a buffer into the pipeline	23:04
RST38h	qgil: You asked for comments from developers a short while ago. I provided comments.	23:04
lardman	well, of course always room for improvement ;)	23:04
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brdusr	johnx nothing on meamo will handle it. any tools i have to install?	23:04
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qgil	RST38h: and I thank you for that!	23:05
RST38h	lardman: Basically, I do not quite understand why all this stuff focuses on playing files	23:05
lcuk	RST38h, headless mediaplayer	23:05
lardman	because that's normal, generating your own isn't - be realistic	23:05
qgil	RST38h: I didn't expect such precise comments so soon and I encourage you to submit them as enhancement requests	23:05
RST38h	lcuk: Yea, but doesn't anyone play his/her own sound? =)	23:05
johnx	brdusr, I don't have bt on my phone so I don't know. have you searched on internettablettalk.com/forums and wiki.maemo.org ?	23:05
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lardman	RST38h: how do you make your own sound?	23:06
RST38h	qgil; What kind of comments do you expect at this moment?	23:06
johnx	anyways, I'm off to sleep for now. have fun everyone :)	23:06
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brdusr	thx for the link :-)	23:06
RST38h	lardman: for(J=0;J<SoundBufSize;++J) { do stuff;SoundBuf[J]=sample; }	23:06
lcuk	RST38h, yeah, jagernot has his boxar thing and got quite upset about esd maybe not existing, and i couldnt do sound effects as i wanted either if it was missing	23:06
lardman	qgil: more info on the RDS transmission/reception sw? ;)	23:06
qgil	whether you think this is a good move, something useful, to be perhaps used... or not	23:06
lcuk	so it effects me as well but i always thought gstreamer could technically do it as well	23:06
brdusr	thank you johnx and good evening	23:06
RST38h	qgil: Ok	23:06
lardman	RST38h: fakesource should work for that afaik	23:06
lcuk	just setup a source of random samples and let it pipe through	23:06
RST38h	qgil: Politically, it will be used in exactly 4 applications, maybe 5.	23:07
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RST38h	qgil; These will be:	23:07
RST38h	qgil: Nokia's own media player (or whatever becomes of it), Canola, MediaBox, 1-2 other players.	23:07
RST38h	qgil: Outside of the media player applications this stuff is pretty useless because it serves so specific purpose	23:08
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qgil	RST38h: no 3rd party plugins for the media player?	23:08
RST38h	qgil: Oh, this one is very important	23:08
lcuk	RST38h, but thats a good thing, we only need 1 way to play a movie or music normally, your request is lower level and something that this library itself must also know how to do - so it wont be missing	23:08
lardman	yeah, but we could write our own if we so desired, and indeed we could write plugins for the upcoming Nokia one (I trust, from looking at the pdf anyway)	23:08
RST38h	qgil: The only plugin for the media player you are going to have is going to be mplayer	23:08
wazd	ookay, built-in mp will be pluginable)	23:08
wazd	General, write this down)	23:09
lardman	RST38h: visualisation plugins, different transfer types, etc	23:09
RST38h	qgil: It is very important that mplayer gets integrated well, either as a whole thing (less desirable) or as a bunch of decoding algorithms	23:09
wazd	RST38h: well, DSP plugins for example	23:09
RST38h	qgil: Outside of mplayer business, I would not expect more plugins	23:09
qgil	RST38h: what about plugins of online services, there are some nowadays and growing in popularity	23:09
RST38h	wazd: yes but I do sincerely hope Nokia will cover a2dp this time :)	23:09
lcuk	+1 movie streaming from desktop	23:10
wazd	RST38h: there can be different audio-plugins aswell	23:10
wazd	RST38h: eq, pitchers, so on	23:10
lardman	RST38h: it works on the n8x0, on the next gen it should be able to handle all audio as it;s mixed on the arm now	23:10
RST38h	qgil: Maybe I will be proven wrong, but I do not think there will be too many other plugins	23:10
RST38h	wazd: "can" and "will" are not the same	23:11
suihkulokki	there will be the ogg plugin ;)	23:11
woglinde	hm cool	23:11
woglinde	I got a small java app running	23:11
lcuk	RST38h, but for the 9999999 hello world media players out there, it makes it easy to do	23:11
qgil	RST38h: nor I have a crystal ball	23:11
RST38h	wazd: I am trying to estimate the coolness/effort ratio and it does not come out very high	23:11
lardman	RST38h: there's a difference between the media player plugins and codec plugins which belong with gstreamer/openmax	23:12
RST38h	lcuk: we really only need one	23:12
RST38h	lcuk: good one	23:12
suihkulokki	s/ogg/any of the 100 other marginal audio/video formats/	23:12
lcuk	yes but its a common project for people to build	23:12
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lcuk	to cut their teeth :)	23:12
lardman	suihkulokki: as long as there's no 16bit type on the DSP ;)	23:12
lcuk	this library makes that easy	23:12
lardman	s/no/not a minimum	23:12
RST38h	qgil: well, mine are not real crystal either, but we can make an educated guess based on the past development history for nits	23:13
qgil	RST38h: Vagalume could be a candidate	23:13
RST38h	qgil: vagalume already works pretty well	23:13
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lcuk	lardman, this library answers my question from yesterday :)	23:14
wazd	It's good to have 1 extendable app for all media stuff	23:14
lardman	+1	23:14
RST38h	wazd: obviously, no argument here	23:14
RST38h	wazd: how many people will extend it is a different question though	23:14
lardman	at least it lowers the bar	23:14
RST38h	lardman: for media players yes	23:15
wazd	not like "gmplauncher for video, kmplayer for tv, mytube for youtube, canola for hooking" and so on :)	23:15
lcuk	RST38h, better to have it as a library, that way we can have different interfaces to best suit the device its on, and still have the same high quality performance and expected behaviour	23:15
qgil	these days I'm thinking about how captive are all we about "the past development history for nits"	23:15
RST38h	lardman: if you want to do anything else (simple sound recording, sound synthesis, video recording) you are still fucked.	23:15
lardman	lol @ nits	23:15
RST38h	qgil: it is all we have to extrapolate from	23:15
lardman	RST38h: the lib is only for the gui and interface stuff really, the rest is still gstreamer/openmax	23:15
qgil	well, you can see trends out there	23:15
lcuk	RST38h, i would rather have one point of failure for all movie stuff so a bug fix if required fixes it for everything	23:16
RST38h	lardman: everybody will be doing his own UI	23:16
lardman	qgil: no, nits are things children get in their hair	23:16
RST38h	lardman: you have already seen MBox, Canola UKMP etc	23:16
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lardman	RST38h: yeah, this lib is the layer under the ui - playlists, linking together sources, etc	23:16
RST38h	lardman: UI is a vanity thing. If you are just writing plugins for somebody else's UI, there is much less ego massaging going on	23:17
lardman	I'd prefer to write something someone will use, personally	23:17
lardman	so plugins work for me	23:17
wazd	RST38h: well, not everybody is hunting for ego :)	23:17
RST38h	wazd: actually, everybody, in the OSS world	23:17
RST38h	wazd: if it is not money, it must be ego :)	23:17
GAN800	RST38h, just because it's the only one doesn't make it a good one. ;)	23:17
wazd	RST38h: me not :)	23:17
wazd	RST38h: I'm not genuine OSSer though :)	23:18
lardman	RST38h: even if I am searching for kudos, I'd prefer it to be backend not upfront stuff	23:18
RST38h	wazd: But you are as kind as Mother Theresa!	23:18
lcuk	lol @ lardman bein an ass man	23:18
lardman	just as that interests me	23:18
lardman	oops	23:18
RST38h	lardman: You are very special kind	23:18
lardman	:D	23:18
* lcuk prefers boobs		23:19
b-man	Ubuntu-omap-fb-splash and ubuntu-rescue-menu is now available; http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/ubuntu-omap-fb-splash/ubuntu-omap-fb-splash_3.7.3ubuntu1_armel.deb -- http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/ubuntu-rescue-menu/ubuntu-rescue-menu_3.7.3ubuntu1_armel.deb	23:19
RST38h	lardman: Very few people are willing to work on the backend, even for money :)	23:19
RST38h	too complicated, they say :)	23:19
lcuk	some surgeons promise to	23:19
lardman	I don't like the airy-fairy front end stuff ;)	23:19
qgil	one potential advantage of plugins version your-own-whole-stuff is that (in principle) you save a lot of potential risk of buggy code in the lower levels	23:19
lardman	says he drinking wine....	23:20
* lcuk is a library man himself. i get a buzz using something ive made		23:20
lardman	qgil: quite, building on the shoulders and all that stuff	23:20
RST38h	Anyways, I think that this media player API, just like most media APIs before it, will have limited use for developers, but will be used in about 4-6 products	23:20
b-man	lcuk: did you see my new rescue menu? :) http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/Ubuntu-rescue-menu.jpg	23:20
lardman	RST38h: perhaps, yes.	23:20
lcuk	yes b-man, i love the chunky icons :)	23:20
lardman	RST38h: but we live in hope :)	23:20
b-man	hehe	23:20
RST38h	qgil: And I also absolutely insist you have simple, non-glib based APIs for simple media tasks	23:21
lcuk	RST38h, talk to the person implementing the very low level of this library	23:21
RST38h	qgil: stuff lke playing ring buffers, recording audio, getting frames from the camera	23:21
lcuk	and see how they are talking to the hardware	23:21
lcuk	and get it integrated	23:21
qgil	RST38h: well, at last will be useful for the official media player alone - and it has served the purpose also to open the backend that actually caused some of the annoyances that made (some) developers ask for openess	23:21
brdusr	Oo never seen this before ... is this ubuntu on internet tablet @b-man =) ?	23:21
RST38h	qgil: yes, that is definitely true	23:21
b-man	brdusr: yes :)	23:22
lardman	well if people will be able to add new stuff to the built in player - file support, transfer support, etc., then it will be worth it imho	23:22
lcuk	i agree, at first glance it looks good	23:22
RST38h	lardman: you only want to add two things: codecs and transport protocols	23:22
RST38h	lardman: files are already provided by gnome vfs	23:23
qgil	it is also an easier path (for Nokia and the community) getting community plugins becoming part of the official offering	23:23
RST38h	lardman: visualization is cool, but it is not as important as previous 2	23:23
brdusr	ÔÔ ... cool !!! did you have any link for me to information about that? my google says nothing g	23:23
* b-man grabs the link		23:24
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brdusr	ahhh i see ... thank you	23:24
qgil	but thanks for the feedback RST38h, this is exactly the kind of 'first impressions' I'm looking for	23:24
lardman	RST38h: well I'd also like to add lyric lookups, wikipedia info about the track, etc. More metadata	23:25
b-man	brdusr: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975	23:25
brdusr	thx a lot :-)	23:25
b-man	your welcome ;)	23:25
Stskeeps	there's one specific thing i like about this channel, - it really wakes your brain up to scroll back through the talk when you've been offline	23:26
b-man	hehe	23:26
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lardman	Stskeeps: offline?! don't you whither and die :)	23:26
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Stskeeps	lardman: fiancée home for first time in a month.. sometimes it's good to be away after doing studies, mer, work 95% of your waking hours	23:27
Stskeeps	:P	23:27
* b-man updates ubuntu guide to include the newly released uubuntu-rescue-menu and splash		23:28
lardman	Stskeeps: definitely, get away from irc now!	23:28
wazd	b-man: I think Rescue-menu "reboot" row shoud be centered and lower\	23:28
pupnik_	anybody here like "mouse on mars"?	23:28
* lardman 's fiancee is out on a girls' nght out this evening		23:28
pupnik_	wherz lardman	23:28
wazd	b-man: someone has already sounded it here)	23:28
pupnik_	oh there	23:28
lardman	hey pupnik_	23:28
Stskeeps	lardman: hehe. gf wanted me to have my geeking time now since i spent all day supporting her before her masters thesis defense and her having guests over and everything	23:28
pupnik_	http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=nwc1s4&s=5 hey i just lugged 340 pounds of speakers into my den	23:29
b-man	wizd: yes, i know, i'm trying to fix that	23:29
b-man	re: wazd - sorry	23:29
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Stskeeps	wazd is a wiz ;)	23:29
lardman	Stskeeps: I just get in trouble these days, until I show her what I'm working on, then she realises I'm not really wasting time sitting here :)	23:30
GAN800	Stskeeps, I frequently just emit a loud sigh and hit End. ;)	23:30
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lardman	pupnik_: nice :)	23:30
Stskeeps	GAN800: that's iTT "new posts" you're thinking about	23:30
Stskeeps	;)	23:30
lardman	pupnik_: poor neighbours :)	23:30
GAN800	Hehe	23:30
pupnik_	acoustics of the room are all wrong.	23:31
pupnik_	but check the 60s furniture!	23:31
t_s_o	heh, one good thing coming from the swap of SD cards are that it takes only a moment for the file manager or open dialog to read the content of them	23:32
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: I wish I could read scroll while I was watching the current ;)	23:34
Stskeeps	i wonder if the constant use of https on garage inhibits some developers from participating. i mean, i'm piss tired of adding --no-check-certificate to my wgets :P	23:34
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RST38h	lardman: look at the plugin examples in that pdf - I don't think adding those plugins will be easy	23:35
lardman	RST38h: I don't have it open atm; but yeah, if it's easy is it worth doing? ;)	23:36
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, alias wget='wget --no-check-certificate' ;)	23:36
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: oh boy.	23:36
lardman	alias rm='rm -rf'	23:36
RST38h	lardman: well if it is dead easy, there is more probability people will play with it :)	23:36
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1206/cx3110x-1.2.tar.gz is the one working for 770 kernel	23:37
Stskeeps	AFAIK	23:37
RST38h	lardman: but it is not dead easy judging from the examples	23:37
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Stskeeps	(yes, it's completely illogical 0.8.1 is for n8x0, and 1.2 is for 770)	23:37
lardman	RST38h: true, but some of it is probably complicated, no way around that really	23:37
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: thanks, will try that one	23:38
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: eh, it doesn't help? with updated evdev	23:38
RST38h	lardman: no, I do not think there is no way around that	23:38
lardman	RST38h: so it abstracts some of the required but fairly constant components, and hopefully lets people concentrate on the cool bits	23:39
lardman	RST38h: hopeully; we'll see	23:39
RST38h	lardman: well designed stuff always hides infrequently used stuff from the user, so it looks and feels simple	23:39
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: does it need any patching?	23:39
RST38h	lardman: do check the pdf	23:39
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: possibly post-making it compile	23:40
lardman	RST38h: depends if it's made for a user, or for a developer and therefore takes away the hassle of implementing the boring stuff	23:40
lardman	RST38h: I did look at it yesterday	23:40
r2d2rogers	"entering unknown directory..."	23:41
RST38h	it is made for a developer but does not seem to take away the hassle	23:41
RST38h	just adds more different hassle	23:41
RST38h	doesn't matter much though, as I don't expect many people to use it	23:41
lardman	removing the need to handle playlists sounds good to me ;)	23:42
lardman	anyway yes, the proof is in the pudding and all that, we'll see what happens hey?	23:42
r2d2rogers	I think I'm missing a step or three.	23:42
RST38h	lardman: well, I kind of expected that by asking for opinions qgil wanted to figure out how to make it better	23:43
RST38h	lardman: that probably was a wrong assumption, dunno	23:43
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: diablo kernel modules still showimg as installed	23:47
r2d2rogers	ls	23:48
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brdusr	ok bye and thank you all for support :-) see you later guys	23:58
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lcuk	does anyone know how i force mplayer to use xv mode? or does it by default?	23:58
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qwerty12_N800	-vo xv iirc	23:59

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