IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-01-06

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r2d2rogersStskeeps: I don't want to interupt what you are doing, but is there a place I can find /etc/osso-af-init//af-defines.sh to look at?00:02
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: maemo? :P00:02
r2d2rogersk00:02
r2d2rogersjust checking00:02
r2d2rogersit's missing in my mer install00:02
b-man@Meiz_n810; not if you use plenty of swap ;)00:02
Meiz_n810nah :P00:03
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: yeah in mine too :P00:03
r2d2rogersStskeeps: is it worth copying it over?00:03
Stskeepswe're going to reconstruct that a bit probably, and things work without, so00:04
Stskeepsno, dont bother, i think :P00:04
r2d2rogersk00:05
Meiz_n810r2d2rogers: i copied the whole directory to Mer , everything i got was a couuple of errors00:05
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r2d2rogersI'm just doing random apt-get upgrades and seeing what breaks <G>00:05
Meiz_n810ports.ubuntu.com seems to be a bit bandwitch limited...00:07
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* Stskeeps tries compiling vte again.00:11
Stskeepsdoes any sane apps use pyvte?00:13
qwerty12_N800a terminal emulator in python?00:13
* qwerty12_N800 shudders00:13
Stskeepswell there could be reasons00:13
Stskeepssuch as apt-get update output or whatever00:14
Stskeeps:P00:14
JaffaSomething like Ubuntu's package manager could be written in Python which shows console output00:14
Jaffayeah :)00:14
Jaffasnap00:14
qwerty12_N800fair enough, i was thinking inside the box it seems :)00:15
b-mani actually do believe there is allrety a terminal written in python, in the debian repo, i can't recall the name though...00:16
qwerty12_N800gdebi in Maemo would be cool actually, at least gdebi installs dependencies automatically if you install locally from a deb00:17
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Stskeepswoo, it builds!00:18
qwerty12_N800Not another sdk update I hope? :)00:19
Stskeepshehe, no, just a code fix00:19
qwerty12_N800brilliant, i don't think i can take installing it anymore :D00:20
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b-manlol00:21
Stskeepsand i refuse to touch that thing again for a while, so we're even00:22
Stskeeps:P00:22
qwerty12_N800hehe00:22
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oliqwerty12_N800: anyremote mouse works :)00:27
qwerty12_N800oli, brilliant :), is it hard to use? :)00:28
olienough for scrolling www pages, but cursor is not visible00:29
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qwerty12_N800there's a way to bring it back but i can't find right file yet..00:31
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olianyremote devels should also include shell support, it shouldn't be hard to code but extremely useful00:32
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lcuk~lart grep00:33
* infobot executes killall -KILL grep00:33
qwerty12_N800oli, found it! edit /home/user/.icons/default/index.theme as root and comment the inherits line & reboot00:34
olibrb, reboot ;)00:36
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lardmanevening00:36
qwerty12_N800hi lardman :)00:37
lardmanhey qwerty12_N800 :)00:37
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woglindehi lardman00:37
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lardmanhi woglinde00:38
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smackpotatowhy does fn +tab only work some of the time im using yen for tab00:42
gnutonHi00:43
oliqwerty12_N800: works, thanks :)00:46
b-manhello, gnuton :)00:46
gnutonHey b-man00:47
gnuton:D00:47
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oliqwerty12_N800: mouse click is always double, but you don't feel it in browser00:48
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qwerty12_N800oli, heh, now i need to actually reinstall anyremote again sometime :)00:49
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oliscripts do not seem to be difficult to modify so i'll try to improve them a little00:51
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smackpotato1how come fn+tab only work some of the time00:56
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hachican I get connection info programmatically on my Nokia N810 somehow in a shell script or perl ?01:06
woglindeifconfig?01:06
hachiI mean like... access points01:06
hachimac addys and whether I'm connected with GPRS01:06
hachithose pieces01:06
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woglindepython-dbus should work01:07
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woglindehachi search the maemo-user or dev mailing list01:08
woglindethere are some hints01:08
woglindefor getting this infos from dbus01:08
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hachiroger roger01:09
hachithank you01:09
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hachihow much time is it to build a dev env for maemo, maybe I'll just write this in C instead01:12
woglindeinstall scratchbox01:12
hachioh, I remember this01:12
woglindeshouldnt be last longer then 2 hours01:13
hachiI ran out of disk space while trying it the last time :)01:13
hachiI'll fix that and be on my way01:13
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Mouseyd-feet!01:25
Mouseyawesome live dbus debugger01:25
woglindegood nite01:25
Mouseyprove it01:25
Mouseymy night is spent at work01:25
Mouseyworking!!01:25
Mousey;_;01:25
woglindeyour problem01:25
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GeneralAntilleslardman, pong?01:26
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: compiling osso-xterm:)01:38
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hachiMousey: d-feet?01:43
Mousey$ apt-cache search d-feet01:43
Mouseyd-feet - A D-Bus debugger01:43
hachisweet01:43
Mouseyhmm, that's debian tho01:43
Mouseymaybe there's a maemo port. sure would be nice ^_^01:43
lardmanAnyone here play ice hockey?01:44
lardmanslightly random question01:44
hachislightly01:44
zeenixMousey: trying the new SDK?01:44
lardman:)01:44
zeenixMousey: ah sorry :)01:44
* Mousey isn't a developer. 01:44
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lardmannight all02:10
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b-mang'night02:10
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dougtdoes anyone know how to disable maemo update checking?  the orange blinky actually noticeably slows down some of our tests.02:33
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GeneralAntillesdougt, there's a gconf setting for the update interval.02:42
dougtdo you recall its name?02:43
GeneralAntillesNot offhand02:43
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800 will know, though, I'm sure.02:43
ShadowJKI imagine the actual checking slows down things more than the blinky afterwards..02:45
GeneralAntillesThe actual checking happens once every 24 hours.02:46
GeneralAntillesSo unless you're doing all of your testing in that 30 second-2 minute window. . . .02:46
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dougtGeneralAntilles: we are testing around the clock.02:54
dougtdid you check out the crazy pictures?02:55
dougthttp://drkscrtlv.livejournal.com/tag/mozilla02:56
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sp3000~ $ gconftool -R / | grep update03:05
sp3000   /apps/hildon/update-notifier:03:05
sp3000~ $ gconftool -R /apps/hildon/update-notifier03:05
sp3000 check_interval = 144003:05
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GeneralAntillesdougt, how'd you set up the power?03:08
hachihttps://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/4492/install.html03:08
hachishould I be using that document for building up a dev env?03:08
hachiit seems like it, but I'd love feedback before I spend too much time03:09
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hachino, apparently that doc is wrong03:41
GeneralAntillesAre you actually using SDK+. . . .03:42
hachishould I not be? I was reading something and it pointed me towards here03:43
hachiI'm not sure if you're asking to make sure that I do use it, or asking why I'm using SDK+03:43
GeneralAntillesIt's not a question of whether you should be or not, but if you actually are.03:43
hachiI am hoping to03:43
GeneralAntillesBecause if you're not, then of course that documentation wont help. . .03:43
hachiahh, found a more up to date version of it03:44
disco_stuGeneralAntilles, you're back03:44
hachihmmm03:47
GeneralAntillesdisco_stu, back to school. :(03:47
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hachiI used debootstrap to build a chroot environment to install maemo-sdk03:47
hachiand maemo-sdk is making a choot environment inside it too03:48
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hachi:\04:02
hachiI can't install rootstraps as root, bleh04:02
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elektehi04:12
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elekten800 still doesn't recharge by usb, correct?04:13
GeneralAntillesUnless fairies have come in the night and rewired it, no. . . .04:14
elektei'll check by i doubt it04:14
derfYou can get a USB->powertip cord to charge it with.04:15
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elekteis the voltage ok?04:15
derfIt's not enough to charge it if the battery is completely drained, but otherwise I haven't had a problem.04:16
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elektei'm going onbo04:16
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elektek, 1 sec04:16
elektei'm going on the amazon and i was looking for a crank dynamo generator for this04:17
elekteany experience with those?04:17
elekteguess i'll have to take a chance04:22
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fireunis there a 770 specific irc channel?06:27
fireun(I'm stuck in the past)06:27
rZri dont think so06:28
fireunmmm, k06:28
rZri hacked all day on 77006:28
fireunI own two, go figure06:28
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fireun2008HE is lovely, except that it crashes with a wifi hotspot I need to be able to use06:38
fireunanyone know if there is any known fault with the 2008HE browser? workaround? not sure if its https/ssl or whatnot that trips it up.06:39
fireunno way for me to tell06:39
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fireunsucks being an early adopter06:51
fireundoes nokia have a 2(770) for 1(810) trade in program? (:06:51
GeneralAntillesNo06:52
fireunwell shoot.06:52
r2d2rogersfireun: I almost wish that was so, but I still can't imagine pocketing a NIT without a metal screen cover regularly06:53
fireuntrue06:53
GeneralAntillesr2d2rogers, I've been doing that to my N800 for 2 years now. :)06:53
fireunI see nothing wrong with the 770, except the instabilities06:53
GeneralAntillesAs long as you don't fill your pockets with spare keys and glass shards. . . . :roll:06:53
* r2d2rogers looks at his slide cover.... 06:53
fireunand the lack of continued support06:53
r2d2rogerskeys and worse here <G>06:53
r2d2rogersfireun: I'm playing with Mer on one of my 770s and running 2008HE on the other06:54
fireunMer?06:54
r2d2rogers~mer06:54
infobot[mer] http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint06:54
GeneralAntillesr2d2rogers, that's why you keep bad things in one pocket and fragile things in another.06:54
fireun2008HE works fine for me, except when I go to web-auth at school06:54
fireunthen blamo, reboot06:54
r2d2rogersyeah06:54
fireunthe 770s get a little weird after streaming music for a couple hours as well.06:55
r2d2rogersmy work's internal WLAN wuit working for me... haven't tested on a linux laptop in a while though to know the issue for sure06:55
* GeneralAntilles can't work up the energy to write the blog posts that are now two weeks overdue.06:55
fireunother wpa wlans work fine, its something in the browser support06:55
fireunoh, and it would have saved me 120 bucks if the ti-calc emulator actually worked, oh well06:56
johnxGeneralAntilles, still recovering from work06:57
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I think December 08 Pt. II is gonna have to be an oversized January 09 Pt. I06:59
johnxdecember got a lot of people this year. I know how vicious it can be. no worries :)07:00
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musikgoat|mainis there a text based list of installed packages in maemo 0807:01
musikgoat|mainv 2.2007.51-3 if it matters07:02
GeneralAntillesWorse is what it did to the debmaster progress. :(07:02
GeneralAntillesmusikgoat|main, dpkg07:03
GeneralAntillesAlso: upgrade07:03
musikgoat|mainthanks07:03
johnxdpkg --get-selections is probably the right thing07:08
GeneralAntillesh-a-m also has a script to display the stuff in user/*07:09
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musikgoat|mainsorry, the dpkg is giving me more than i want, :-)07:32
musikgoat|mainwhat do you mean h-a-m script07:32
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musikgoat|maini'm looking for a method to show what is in the app manager, essentially07:35
musikgoat|mainvia text07:35
musikgoat|mainim sshed in07:35
musikgoat|mainalso does anyone know of a battery draining tool that writes a counter to disk to mark the battery life?07:37
musikgoat|mainlike a timer that plays the default video and keeps track of when the unit dies07:37
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musikgoat|mainRX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin   would be the correct image to update to?07:41
GeneralAntillesmaemo-list-user-packages07:42
GeneralAntillesYes07:42
GeneralAntilleshttp://nitapps.com/07:42
musikgoat|mainthanks07:43
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Zakkmanyone know why mediabox youtube doesnt play? got latest maemo on n80008:12
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churlhow can i get my screen to go black (completely off) when i lock touch screen and keys?09:02
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t_s_otechnically it should do so on its own, automatically...09:06
johnxchurl, change the dim timeout to be the same as blank timeout09:06
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churljohnx: one sec, downloading :)09:09
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churljohnx: under control panel  -  display?09:16
johnxyeah09:16
churlbrightness period and switch off display are both at 1 minute09:17
johnxwhat happens when you lock screen?09:18
johnxdoes it dim or stay on?09:18
churlstay on09:18
churlim waiting the minute to see what happens09:18
churlok09:19
churlit went black after that minute09:19
johnxis it plugged into AC?09:19
churlsure nuff :)09:19
johnxtry unplugging from AC and lock again, just for fun09:19
johnxI've been having trouble tracking this down too :/09:20
churlok, just for fun09:20
churlit went black after a few seconds09:20
johnxyeah, that should be the right behavior09:21
johnxsometimes it behaves differently on AC...but then again it doesn't matter as much on AC09:21
churlok neat, good to know09:21
churltrue that09:21
t_s_othere is a option that tells the screen to stay on when charging...09:22
churlvery useful to have the quick blackout and lock screen09:22
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bakarathi09:22
churlyeah, i like mine to be off, im not sure why09:22
bakarati was wondering if it is possible to create an algorithm that, based on the images from openstreetmap.org, can actually calculate the streets09:22
bakarat(street names would be another story)09:22
t_s_othinking about offline route finding?09:23
bakaratalways09:24
bakarat:D09:24
t_s_oi suspect it could be done, but it would probably not be cpu friendly by a long shot...09:24
bakaratprobably not09:25
bakaratbut it would only have to be done once...09:25
bakaratand you can even divide the task09:25
bakarati have no interest in mapping other countries, but other people might :>09:25
bakaratthe street name mapping would be a crapload of manual work though09:26
bakaratdo google maps and consorts keep track of one way streets etc?09:29
t_s_ono clue09:32
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johnxuhm, there is routing info with OSM...I thought. the "picture versions" are just rendered from the vector data...again IIRC09:35
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bakaratthere was a lively discussion yesterday here09:39
bakaratwhere it was claimed that there is no vector data in osm09:39
bakaratat least no complete09:39
bakaratwhich is the entire problem with offline routing09:39
johnxthe pictures are rendered from vector data09:40
johnxit isn't complete though, that's correct09:40
johnxwon't be complete until more people wander around with a GPS and upload their maps :)09:40
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bakaratjohnx, does maemo mapper download the vector data as well?10:01
bakarator just the pictures?10:01
bakaratcause if it does vector data, the leap to routing offline isn't too far away...10:01
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: at itT your instructions to make a bootmenu.item have always those "". for example after ITEM_NAME="type here".  b-man:s installer creater .item with no quotation-marks.. i haven't tested it, but can you tell me would it work without them too?10:29
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ChenkaiHi everyone, i am wondering how can i get the detailed info of user-saved wlan connection in maemo?  is there any conf file serving that purpose? thanks in advance:)10:30
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Chenkaithough libconic can get some info , but i think the info is not sufficed to me.  e.g. SSID name10:33
Meiz_n810iwconfig ?10:37
Chenkaii am not sure yet.  i think some kind of api or conf file would be a better choice;)10:40
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johnxbakarat, no. look up: roadmap10:50
bakaratjohnx, for osm or mapper?10:50
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johnxbakarat, for osm-based routing10:50
kulvehmm.. I had a mid file called 007.mid under MyDocs and the metalayer crawler segfaulted to it everytime..10:52
johnxO_o10:52
johnxgreat behavior10:52
kulveI was wondering why the metalayer crawler is never running. Luckily strace told me te reason10:53
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kulvehow can I add a dialog that is shown when an application is installed? Like those license agreement dialogs (although just "OK" would be enough for me)10:54
Jaffakulve: Use zenity in your post-inst11:00
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kulvemaemo-confirm-text seems to be what the license texts use11:01
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Stskeepsjohnx: saw the gnome-hildon coexistence screenshot?11:04
johnxoh didn't know there was screenshot :D11:04
johnxwell, there it is O_o11:05
Stskeepshehe11:05
Stskeepsmakes things a bit easier11:05
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: at itT your instructions to make a bootmenu.item have always those "". for example after ITEM_NAME="type here".  b-man:s installer creater .item with no quotation-marks.. i haven't tested it, but can you tell me would it work without them too?11:12
Stskeepsin some instancea they matter11:14
Stskeepssuch as name with a space11:14
Meiz_n810then it's a bug11:15
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RST38hMoo all11:18
RST38hhttp://lj.karlson.ru/Canada/ububu.jpg11:18
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StsN800johnx, auto-startx is just a init script that starts startx at end of bootup btw?11:25
johnxyes. it's the one you pointed me at11:26
johnxit also makes /etc/default/autologin if it doesn't exist11:26
StsN800alright11:26
johnxbut that's part of the init script, not part of the package postinst11:26
StsN800have to use it at work today so:P11:27
johnxso it needs to work 100%? test it first...11:27
StsN800hehe, i will11:27
johnxI did plenty of install tests...but there's always the possibility it will do the wrong thing if you have other window managers or session managers installed or previously installed11:28
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StsN800hehe. it'll prolly just start hildon + some app11:31
RST38hAnyone who hasn't seen this: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/apple_introduces_revolutionary11:32
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pupnikawesome RST38h11:44
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RST38hpupnik: that is Onion though =)11:46
RST38h(just in case there is any misunderstanding ;))11:46
pupnikhttp://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1240267  freescale ARM netbook11:47
pupnik"We believe our power-efficient solution, combined with Linux, plus some special application widget-based software, will enable a new kind of utilization of the internet," Cammal said. "New players want a simple utilization of the Internet."11:48
pupnikhttp://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-257347.html11:48
pupnikfunny how copycats pretend they innovate11:48
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RST38hYep11:50
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RST38hWho is a copycat?11:50
RST38hFreescale has been making ARM-based chips for years (and no bad ones too). So, why is placing their chip into a notebook enclosure is a copycat?11:51
pupnikthe marketing as an internet device11:51
RST38heverybody does that nowadays11:52
pupniki guess11:52
RST38hIt's a marketing by exclusion :)11:52
RST38hIt can't run MS Office. It can't run WoW or other PC games. So, what is left? Right, Internet apps :)11:53
johnxit'd be marketing suicide to not mention your device is inet capable...11:53
pupniktrue11:53
RST38hjohnx: Especially considering that it can't do any other apps known to Joe the User11:53
pupniki'd like something as responsive as Epoc was on the original netbook11:53
pupnikopen device, start taking notes and/or sketching, or surfing11:54
pupnikno wait between any of those11:54
RST38hDoesn't NIT do that?11:54
pupnikyes11:55
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pupniki have to play with the netbook again11:56
johnxthe psion netbook you mean?11:57
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RST38hyea, because the "netbook" in its Intel interpretation is just a cheap shitty little laptop11:57
johnxbut serviceable for some scenarios. HP11:58
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johnxHP's mini note looks nice for example11:59
RST38hIt is actually twice as expensive12:00
RST38hAnd if you add a bit more, you can just buy yourself a real subnotebook about the same size12:00
johnx$380 is twice as much as what?12:00
RST38hWasn't it more like $700?12:00
johnxit's CES right now :)12:01
johnxremember?12:01
RST38h$380 is actually nice :)12:01
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johnxand they have the 6 cell batteries out too ... finally12:01
RST38hThere is no way I give up my Portege though, especially considering Atom's performance12:01
johnxyeah, trying to decide between something like that and a used thinkpad x32 is kinda tough12:04
RST38hNo way I am buying a thinkpad12:05
johnxyeah, yeah12:06
RST38hIt's like buying a LADA12:06
johnxthat appeal doesn't work on me though. :D did I ever show you my previous car?12:07
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RST38hNo, but the only way you can go lower than Lada is if you owned a ZAZ12:07
RST38hAnd there is no way you would either have it or know what it is12:08
johnxif they were nice to work on and sold at the right price...12:08
johnxI can be convinced to ignore a lot of ills12:08
Meizirkki~curse sonera12:08
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, sonera !12:08
MeizirkkiI'm screwed :(12:08
MeizirkkiMy parents bought a faster internet immediately when it became available.. but.12:09
Meizirkkiit's only 5gb per month12:09
johnxeep O_o12:09
johnxdon't talk too much on IRC... might go over the limit12:09
johnxwired internet with a 5GB cap...just ouch12:09
Meizirkkiit's wireless12:09
johnxaaah12:10
Meizirkkiit have been two days here and i have already used 2gb12:10
RST38hporn?12:10
Meizirkkino12:10
MeizirkkiMer12:10
RST38hthen WHAT?12:10
johnxtime to get a part time job and start funding your own inet connection12:10
Meizirkkiand a corrupted memorycard12:10
Meizirkkijohnx: Yep :P12:10
RST38hweird...what is the scenario for this?12:10
Meizirkki?12:11
johnxRST38h, a couple ubuntu debootstrap runs will soak up a lot of bandwidth12:11
RST38hhmm12:11
StskeepsMeizirkki: look into having apt-proxy on your machine :P12:11
MeizirkkiRST38h: and one try for KDE 4, and one for ubuntu-mobile12:12
RST38haha, I see what you mean12:12
RST38hlinux porn!12:12
Meizirkki:P12:12
StskeepsMeizirkki: and how much per gb afterwards?12:12
* Stskeeps stays way clear of capped connections personally12:12
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: time per gb?12:22
Meizirkkimoney per gb?12:22
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Meizirkkiit's 39,90 € per month, 1 Mb/s (dl-speed about 130kb/s) wireless connetcion12:24
Meizirkkiit uses the frequency of old nmt-phones ~450mHz12:26
MeizirkkiStskeeps: what would the apt-proxy help?12:26
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StskeepsMeizirkki: that it doesnt have to redownload packages that havent been updated12:27
Stskeepsand caches them localyl12:27
Meizirkkiok, that would help a bit...12:28
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Meizirkkidebootstrap would fly if dl:s packages from another computer :P12:28
Stskeepshehe12:31
Stskeepsjohnx: does maemo-launcher have to be a init.d script? :P12:32
Stskeepsor even have one12:32
johnxI got rid of it :P12:32
johnxthat's the maemo-launcher I just built...I thought12:32
johnxwait, is it still there?12:33
Stskeepsthink i ran into it just now on x8612:33
Stskeepsor it tries to work with it in postinst12:34
johnxah, it won't remove it if it's already there12:34
johnxdelete it by hand and do a reinstall12:35
johnxscripts in init.d are considered a "conf" file by debian and aren't touched12:35
Stskeepsah, its just cos it tries to init.d reload12:35
johnxit's really funny how many conf files they source when it runs just fine in start-hildon as exec maemo-launcher --daemon12:37
Stskeepswell for theming(?)12:37
Stskeepsand perhaps locales and such12:37
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MeizirkkiApt-get update on Mer says "Bad header line" with apt-proxy on my computer12:50
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StskeepsMeizirkki: yeah, you need to set it up :)13:05
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Meizirkkii did13:06
Stskeepsor look into some other caching methods13:06
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Stskeepswoo \o/ the dead nokia chargers13:07
Stskeepscharges13:07
Meizirkkiit looks like apt-proxy only stores packages downloded by apt-get or aptitude.. So i386 > arm pretty difficult13:11
Stskeepsapt-proxy can be used with debootstrap though13:13
Meizirkkiyep13:13
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Meizirkkii'll move cache from Mer to my computer...13:13
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Stskeepsjohnx: does hildon-desktop-env make itself a x-session-manager alternative?13:21
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johnxyes13:26
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Stskeepsk13:27
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smyowsthe maemo will run on the n97?13:34
Stskeepsif you can hack a linux kernel on top of it and a bootloader.. maybe? :P13:35
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RST38hhttp://blog.laptopmag.com/hyperspace-hands-on <=== check out "Pricing" part13:51
RST38h(and yes, it is Linux)13:51
Stskeepsheh13:55
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mavhcthat site's blocked at workschool for "criminal skills", obviously they've been reading about there not being any free software13:58
RST38hlaptopmag blocked?14:00
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StskeepsRST38h: worst part about the apple "laptop" is that the idea isn't completely insane14:15
RST38hSts: The one from Onion? ;)14:15
Stskeepsyeah14:15
RST38hSts: It's not insane given that you can put a display behind that huge rung14:16
RST38hring14:16
RST38hOtherwise, the input will be too slow14:16
johnxDJs would love it14:17
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RST38hDJs and other lower lifeforms14:19
* Stskeeps tries to boot the latest image.14:22
Stskeepsjohnx: auto-startx is empty?14:23
johnxhuh?14:23
johnxlook in debian/14:23
Stskeepspackage contents only have the copyright, changelog.Debian.gz14:24
* johnx kries14:24
* johnx looks14:24
johnxhuh...well something got messed up it seems14:26
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Stskeepsseems like my windows machine is fucking up immensely (central file server broken at uni)14:28
Stskeepsmight encourage me to go earlier home, heh14:28
Stskeepsjohnx: source package doesnt have a init script14:31
johnxgreat. appears to be builder related14:31
johnxok, probably me uploading the wrong version. :D14:31
johnxsimple to fix. one sec14:31
* lcuk turns the heaters on and closes the chan door14:34
johnxchan door? cold air coming in from an open IRC window?14:34
AstralStyes, close it NOW!!!114:34
lcukclose all the bloody windows, especially those wobbly linux ones :P14:35
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* johnx prefers wobbly, springy windows. makes snapping them to screen edges easier14:36
lcuki dont like to snap windows anywhere, its a pain to cleanup14:36
lcuki got lunch without asking you lot today btw, you can go outside and get your own14:37
johnxhad dinner already. burritos!14:37
lcukoh shit, reopen the windows14:37
lcukim actually glad you are half a world away from me :D14:38
johnxlcuk, ever get your car's window washer resevoir unfrozen?14:38
lcuknot yet, it was even colder last night ;)14:38
johnxunfortunate :|14:38
lcukbut at least i know its not leaking yet14:38
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lcukthe blue washer stuff waqs still there, but frozen solid14:38
andrewfblackMorning14:39
AstralSthehehe14:39
AstralStreplace with better fluid then14:39
lcukcant get crappeh fluid out14:39
johnxeep. yeah, need washer fluid that has some better anti-freezing solution14:39
AstralStSiberian variant14:39
AstralStlcuk: use a building14:39
johnxlcuk, pull the resevoir and bring it inside :)14:39
lcuki need to setup hose pipe to the hot water tap :)14:39
johnxheh...or just run the engine for a bit to warm it up :P14:39
AstralStnah, it would oxidize (or rust, in layman terms)14:39
lcukhahahahahahahahahaha, modern citroen, res is INSIDE the wing14:39
AstralStesp. all the tubes14:40
johnxahaha...fail14:40
johnxmodern car fail14:40
AstralStthus, you have to use a garage14:40
johnxsat right next to exhaust side of the block on my old supra14:40
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lcukyeah K.I.S.S principle should be in effect for all cars14:40
Stskeepsjohnx: forgot to change version14:40
Stskeeps+you14:40
johnxyeah, some part of my upload script messed up. probably happened last time14:40
AstralStlcuk: well, then put some bag with hot water inside14:41
AstralStand hope the water won't freeze14:41
AstralSt:P14:41
Stskeepssaltwater maybe? :P14:41
lcukill just run the hose from the hot tap trickling through :)14:41
AstralStuhm, it will still be too cool14:41
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AstralStyes, that could work too14:41
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* suihkulokki is waiting for the first modern car that comes with sticker on the hood: "warranty void if removed"14:41
johnxStskeeps, yes, saltwater...all over the inside of your car :P14:41
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Stskeepsmm.14:41
Stskeeps:P14:41
lcukjohnf, actually saltwater splshes around all the time14:42
Stskeepsjohnx: no drivers license or any good knowledge of cars ;)14:42
johnxsuihkulokki, close enough already. stupid plastic engine lids...like freaking tupperware14:42
AstralStthe problem is sheer amount of fluid to heat14:42
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lcukgritted roads and stuff splash up14:42
AstralStlcuk: if correctly greased and oiled, should do nothing14:42
AstralSt:)14:42
johnxlcuk, don't get it in more places than it already gets. a patch of it sitting inside a corner can be worse than a whole winter of salted roads14:42
lcukAstralSt, i did think about using the jet wash thingy but it would be expensive14:42
AstralStstill, salt water doesn't help containing heat14:42
AstralStonly not freezing14:43
lcukright, plain warm water, lots of it14:43
Stskeepsjohnx: what user does it start x as?14:43
AstralStor some more dense fluid14:43
johnxuser14:43
Stskeeps(btw)14:43
Stskeepsdoes it add user itself?14:43
lcukif i cant get a hose ill just keep sending kits out with the kettle and hope to god we dont burst it14:43
lcukAstralSt, that wont permiate throughthough if theres a blockage14:44
lcukit will take about a fortnight in which case it will be thawed anyway14:44
AstralSthm14:44
AstralStis heating the container and all the pipes feasible?14:44
lcukremember, icebergs  last for months in saltwater14:44
lcukwith hot hosepipe yes14:45
lcukand when ive got things started ill just shove the end of the pipe all the way down its neck and leave it for a couple of hours14:45
johnxlcuk, I ask again: can you easily pull the resevoir and take it inside?14:46
lcukyes, if i take the wing off the car14:46
johnxwait, how do you fill it?14:46
johnxis there a spout somewhere else?14:46
lcukwith a spout14:46
johnxyour car is broken. get a 1969 VW Bug14:46
lcukthats no way to suppoort my windows vista mobile14:47
johnxI'll probably never buy a car made after 96 or so14:47
johnxtoo $(%*ing hard to deal with. I *was* looking at a bug for a while honestly. they look so easy to work on14:48
AstralStjohnx: check the Korean cars14:48
AstralStor Chinese ;P14:48
lcukyeah, the mrs drools everytime and i can see the appeal14:48
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AstralStthe latter can be fixed with a hammer14:48
AstralStpliers14:48
AstralStand a bit of ljuck14:48
AstralSt*luck14:48
lardmanlcuk: where's this reservoir? Inside the front wing?14:48
florianjohnx: its in fact really easy... and you still get all sorts spare parts very cheap14:49
johnxAstralSt, korean? Hyundai cars still have plastic tupperware over the engine14:49
lcukyeah simon14:49
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lardmanbut still in the engine bay14:49
lcukyeah14:49
lardmanI'd go with the switch it on approach14:49
lcukjust leave car idling or actively drive round for hours?14:50
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lardmandrive round for a bit, otherwise you won't get any heat into the block14:50
johnxflorian, and great gas mileage, and a nice RR layout. I went for a 96 subie instead for the AWD.14:50
lardmanthen leave it to soak, at idle14:50
lcukno lardman but the problem there is the roads are so crapped up  i need wipers and fluid14:50
lardmanor stick it in the garage do it doesn't get cold straight away14:50
johnxlardman, he can't drive around because he needs with washer to keep his windows de-iced as he drives :P14:50
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lardmanah, sit in neutral at 3k rpm then14:51
stv0hello ;)14:51
lardman:)14:51
lcukheh :D14:51
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lcukill leave luke revving it14:51
lardmanlol14:51
lardmanYes officer, a very small boy stole my car, no, no idea who he was14:51
johnxStskeeps, think it'll do the right thing now14:51
Stskeepsjohnx: alright14:51
johnxI think I did a commit but not a push last time... eep14:52
lcukheh yeah, i have to do something though, ill just see if tracy will go places tonight14:52
lardmanwhat, she doens't need to see out the front?14:52
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stv0i'm missing the handwriting input method14:53
lardmanthough in this weather, roll down the side windows, probably of more use while sliding sideways :)14:53
stv0what happended with it?14:53
lcukshe can keep coming back for pitstops ;)   i hate local driving14:53
lcukits not that bad just locally but as soon as you get on the motorway this grey sludge forms14:53
lardmanyeah14:54
johnxstick your head out the window and drive sideways. problem solved14:54
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Stskeepsjohnx: any chance it's still missing the actual init? ..14:54
lcukheh, nothing new for me then, tracy says i corner like a maniac14:54
johnxStskeeps, if I build it out of my source tree I get the init file...14:55
lcuklardman, libliqbase is looking quite nice and stuff now :)  im hammering it into a proper api14:55
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Stskeepsjohnx: source package has debian/changelog, compat control copyright and rules14:56
* lcuk is learning a lot14:56
Stskeeps(0.2-mer2)14:56
Stskeepsand nothing else14:56
lardmanlcuk: cool, I need to get doing some programming after the new year break14:56
lcukyou still on holidays?14:56
johnxStskeeps, missed a bzr add. makes a lot more sense now14:56
johnxsigh. got it now.14:57
lardmanlcuk: no way, back at work14:57
Stskeepsjohnx: building osso-xterm in the meantime14:57
lcukdid you get holly anything nice? did she get you anytihn14:57
lardmannah, just usual sorts of things - books, dvds, etc14:58
lardmanwe were aiming for a cheap-ish xmas14:58
lcukas lots of ppl were14:58
lcukbbl, work calling15:01
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RST38hcrisis!15:06
* Stskeeps is just looking forward to osso-xterm building and woring.15:06
Stskeeps+k15:06
johnxlcuk, the big retailers weren't looking for a cheap x-mas. :P15:07
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Stskeepsheh, hildon dies when using advanced backlight under x8615:11
Stskeepswonder why.. :>15:11
lardmanit tries to read the hw directly doesn;t it?15:12
lardmanwith an ioctl?15:12
Stskeepstries to communicate with dsme15:12
lardmanoh right, back to sleep for me :)15:12
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: it dies on arm too if i try to change volume lever15:14
Stskeepsoh, doesnt for me, strange :P15:14
Stskeepsjohnx: auto-startx works15:14
MeizirkkiWhat does it do?15:14
Meizirkkiauto-startx15:14
Stskeepsinstead of the rc.local trick15:15
Stskeepsand makes X run as a user instead15:15
Stskeeps / hildon15:15
Meizirkkiuser must be "user"?15:15
johnxMeizirkki, auto-login and start X as user or whoever you specify in /etc/default/autologin15:15
Meizirkkiok15:15
Meizirkkii'll use gdm with no password trick15:15
johnxecho PREFERED_USER=meiz > /etc/default/autologin15:15
Meizirkkiok15:15
StskeepsMeizirkki: can you test osso-xterm later if it works on armel? seems to crash on x8615:15
johnxI'll save 5% of my RAM and just use auto-startx :)15:16
Stskeepsso just curious what the heck happens15:16
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: i'll install osso-xterm soon15:16
Stskeepsk15:16
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Stskeepsjohnx: successful demo of auto-startx ;)15:32
johnxgood. it was working my local builds for quite a while. I just missed one bzr add. dur.15:32
Stskeepsmade a new x86 image and presented to co-workers so :P15:32
johnxhot :D15:33
johnxwhat hardware did you demo on?15:33
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AstralStcow-orkers?15:34
Stskeepsd945gclf2 intel board with tv attached, SATA -> compact flash convertor15:34
AstralSthmm :)15:34
AstralStfairly beefy hardware15:34
johnxStskeeps, they should buy you some x86 tablet or MID15:34
Stskeepsjohnx: hehe, our target is TV atm so :P15:34
johnxinteresting15:34
AstralStnice15:34
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Meiz_n810!! I can install mer to my jaunty machine now (without destroying gnome!) hehee15:34
Stskeepsbut the idea is to be able to move to whatever device we need to15:34
AstralStprobably some set-top box?15:34
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: with a bit of pinning, yeah :P15:35
StskeepsAstralSt: in this case, yeah15:35
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Meiz_n810grr... seriously this 5gb/month freaks me out!15:35
Stskeepswhat did you have before? isdn?15:35
Meiz_n810adsl15:35
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Meiz_n810with no data/month limit15:36
Stskeepsmm15:36
Meiz_n810this new is wireless, 100% faster, but has 5gb/month15:36
Stskeepsfind out how much it would cost to get it to be flatrate instead? :P15:37
AstralStimpossible?15:37
AstralSt:P15:37
Stskeepsnot impossible15:37
Stskeepsit's just slightly more expensive15:37
Stskeeps:P15:37
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: i will15:37
Stskeepsjohnx: so, goal for 0.5 is osso-xterm working, first-boot-wizard?15:38
johnxwill poke at it more tonight15:38
Stskeepsk15:38
Meiz_n810i'll try if the latest tear works...15:39
Stskeepsgrr, osso-xterm just segfaults :P15:42
Stskeepswithout any good reason why15:42
AstralStStskeeps: see, I'm in a place where ADSL wiring is damaged by actual rats15:43
AstralStand nothing else wired is available15:43
AstralStso I'm (ab)using HSDPA with 6G/mo limit15:43
* Meiz_n810 boots to Mer...15:44
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aquatixAstralSt: heh :)15:48
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Meizirkkigrr, i cannot boot to mer16:01
Meizirkkiit just stays on Starting linuxrc from mer...16:02
Meizirkki:(16:02
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Meizirkkihow can i flash a fresh initfs from nokia fiasco?16:07
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johnxMeizirkki, unpack it with flasher-3.0 then flash just the initfs16:09
AstralStyes, --flash-only initfs16:09
johnxyeah, or that16:09
Meizirkkithanks16:09
AstralStor IIRC, -n16:09
Meizirkkithanks16:09
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Meizirkkinoh, still stucks on "Starting linuxrc from mer" :(16:14
rzrhi Meizirkki , do you have images of mer ?16:16
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Meizirkkino, but i can make one right noww16:16
JohnFluxanyone here use scratchbox?16:18
JohnFluxI'm trying to work out how to change the autoconf etc version16:19
StskeepsJohnFlux: blood sweat and tears16:21
rzrMeizirkki: i'll be curious to test this16:21
JohnFluxStskeeps: :-)16:21
Stskeepsthere should be sufficient autoconf stuff though16:21
rzrMeizirkki: just tested nitdroid yesterday : http://rzr.online.fr/q/nit16:22
Stskeepsrzr: a new 0.5 image will come out sooner or later now16:22
rzrgreat16:22
rzri'll do this too16:22
MeizirkkiGood.. I just remembered that i'm not gonna upload anyhing with 5gb/month limit... :P16:23
rzrupload it once , at the end of the month :)16:24
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JohnFluxStskeeps: ah,      SBOX_DEFAULT_AUTOMAKE=1.9;export SBOX_DEFAULT_AUTOMAKE.16:26
JohnFluxStskeeps: that does it :-)16:26
Stskeepsyeah16:27
Stskeepsjohnx: think i'll build a 0.5 image with auto-startx to get things a little more sane16:27
Stskeepsthe old image is a bit stale so16:27
johnxStskeeps, sounds good. also, we're finally really session based! woo!16:27
johnxwonder if Nokia is doing their own session-oriented thing for fremantle :/16:28
Stskeepsno clue16:28
Stskeepswhat else should i include in standard image?16:32
StskeepsMeizirkki: any suggestions?16:32
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MeizirkkiTear if it works :P16:33
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MeizirkkiBut i can't try it because i am unable to boot! :(16:33
Meizirkki~nuke shitty initfs16:34
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at shitty initfs ... B☢☢M!16:34
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Stskeepsinstall deblet bootmenu? :P16:34
StskeepsMeizirkki: any apps you've found helpful? :P16:36
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Meizirkkii have deblet's bootmenu...16:37
Stskeepscan i see your bootmenu item?16:37
Stskeepsand how did you untar the image tar.gz?16:37
Meizirkkii can't think i'm so pissed off right now, sec...16:38
Meizirkkii used imager16:38
Meizirkkieveryhing gone well16:38
Meizirkkii'll  pastebin the bootmenu item16:39
Meizirkkis/ item/.conf/16:39
Stskeepsk16:39
Meizirkkihmm, chroot fails. no /bin/sh o_O16:39
lcukjohnx, session oriented thing? user login sessions? :D ?16:40
Stskeepssounds like something went wrong :P16:40
Meizirkkiit chrooted while ago...16:40
StskeepsMeizirkki: is it mounted? :P16:40
Meizirkkiyes it is16:40
johnxlcuk, the potential to support those later. :P right now at least stuff isn't running from init.d anymore. hildon can be used with a display manager now16:40
Meizirkkiwait, not sure16:40
Meizirkkipastebin.com/m4206e20216:41
Meizirkki(bootmenu.conf)16:41
lcukjohnx, ahhh so a session on tvout for instance and one active display? or am i getting knickersi na twist still16:41
johnxlcuk, knickers, twisted. yes16:42
Meizirkkii hope it boots now..16:42
lcukok ill rearrange and try again later ;)16:42
StskeepsMeizirkki: bootmenu.conf which is in /mnt/initfs too16:42
johnxlcuk, but actually, with two x servers you could do that I suppose...so sure, why not? :)16:42
Stskeepsjohnx: actually since we have xorg..16:42
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Stskeepsyou could do a dual screen tablet probably, with usbvga16:43
MeizirkkiStskeeps: i used your bootmenu installer, and bootmenu comes up. So i think it is there16:43
lcukStskeeps, that would be triple screen16:43
lcukanyway, i was just curious about sessions, ill find out more later16:43
johnxlcuk, basically in Nokia's distro user level desktop stuff was started as part of the system init. Now, it's all nicely compartmentalized and done like a normal linux distro16:43
StskeepsMeizirkki: k, and you use your own bootmenu.conf16:43
lcukoooh johnx, good16:44
lcukthanks, cya in a bit16:44
johnxlcuk, and actually, yes, with xorg, we are capable of supporting two screens at once if the hardware supports it, as Stskeeps said. no need to run two x servers now that I think about it correctly16:44
Stskeepswe're actually able to support more probably, :P16:44
Stskeepscluster of usbvga.. hmm :P16:44
johnxheh...with one poor overworked tablet driving them all via a 7 port hub :P16:45
Stskeepsneat demo anyway :P16:45
MeizirkkiStskeeps: it's the deblet one, just modified a bit, when i select Mer, it hangs showing me "Starting linuxrc from mer (mmcblk0p2) (ext3) ..."16:45
Meizirkkii have chmod 777 it and still that happens16:46
StskeepsMeizirkki: mm, that bootmenu.conf isn't using bootmenu items though16:46
MeizirkkiI first tried the item-using bootmenu.conf, same happened16:47
Stskeepsk16:47
Meizirkkithen i removed the items and made my own bootmenu.conf, hoping that would help :(16:47
Stskeepswait some hours and grab the 0.5 image instead to base off16:48
Meizirkkiif i can't get this run i will.. before that i'll ~curse sonera couple of times for giving us a data/month limit :P16:49
Stskeepshehe16:49
Meizirkki!!16:49
Meizirkkihaha, i can use the old modem16:49
Meizirkkias long as it works16:50
Stskeepshehe16:50
Stskeepsin my family we still have the imap accounts from the isp we had in 2000 :P16:50
Stskeepsimap/pop316:50
* johnx remembers when his cousin used to own an ISP16:51
Stskeepsheh, wasnt it mostly a T1 and a modem pool? :P16:51
johnxyeah, very likely16:53
johnxI had free service until they got bought out16:53
r2d2rogersStskeeps: what's the best route for me to start beating ont he new hotness?16:53
johnxand man...getting bought out was a great way to leave the game. in another couple years DSL and cable sprung up in the area16:53
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: well there's still the sapwood issue16:54
Stskeepsand i would like your imager scripts16:54
r2d2rogersdoh16:54
r2d2rogersrigth16:54
r2d2rogerswill push those16:55
JohnFluxStskeeps: don't suppose you know how to get Xinput.h in scratchbox? :)16:55
Stskeepsthen i can start generating 770 images, so16:55
StskeepsJohnFlux: libxi-dev? :P16:55
JohnFluxStskeeps: I have that installed, but it doesn't seem to contain it..16:56
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Stskeepsnot sure then, my area is Mer SDK :P16:56
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JohnFluxStskeeps: rats.  dpkg -L libxi-dev   show no .h files in it at all hum16:57
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Stskeepsright, off to bus17:00
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: i am sure now what went wrong...17:18
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Meiz_n810i ran imager when i was booted to cloned maemo17:18
Meiz_n810on internal17:19
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Meiz_n810"that's why all 3 tries before this were corrupted completely"...17:19
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StsN800ah17:19
Meiz_n810i'll wait for the 0.5 release...17:20
StsN800k, building it atm17:20
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Meiz_n810building will surely take less than downloading it with the old connection...17:20
StsN800yeah17:21
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Meiz_n810~curse sonera, for giving data limit to Meiz17:22
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, sonera, for giving data limit to Meiz !17:22
Meiz_n810that feels good...17:23
Meiz_n810:P17:23
RST38hMeiz: what happens w=once you exceed the limit?17:23
Meiz_n810they will first low priority17:23
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Meiz_n810that other modems near override ours17:24
Meiz_n810then they can take the connection away :(17:24
Meiz_n810i'll call and ask how much i have to pay for limit-less connection17:25
aquatixif there is any17:25
RST38hWonderful17:25
* RST38h just pays per-megabyte once he exceeds the 11GB cap17:26
RST38hOr is it 20GB now? Mhm17:26
aquatixon your line?17:26
aquatixor is that for wireless?17:26
RST38hEthernet17:27
aquatixerm, you have ethernet to your home?17:27
RST38h$24/month for 15GB + $.01/MB for anything extra17:28
RST38haquatix: yep17:28
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RST38hAh, almost forgotten: all local traffic is free.17:28
aquatixRST38h: that's some city LAN?17:28
RST38haquatix: communal network, covers pretty much whole north-west/north of the city17:29
RST38hhttp://www.ultranet.ru/page.php?57#217:29
aquatixneat17:29
* RST38h wonders how long before some big company buys them and ruins the service17:29
aquatixif they're nice, they refuse to sell themselves17:30
RST38hit does not work this way. They are usually made an offer they can't refuse.17:30
derfIt's Russia, after all.17:31
RST38hExactly.17:31
aquatixdamn capitalists ;)17:31
aquatixoh the irony17:31
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derfYes, because there was certainly no Russian mafia under communism.17:37
RST38hIt has nothing to do with mafia. In fact, "Russian mafia" is pretty much gone now.17:37
johnxRST38h, much easier to change the laws and do things legit anyways :)17:38
RST38hThere is a plenty of laws and regulations though and a lot of officials ready to enforce them, for a fee.17:38
aquatixall gone bankrupt?17:38
aquatixhehehe17:38
derfRST38h: My point was there was one under communism.17:38
RST38haquatix: replaced by public servants =)17:39
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johnxs/replaced/became/ :)17:39
RST38hderf: Not in the normal meaning of the word17:39
RST38hjohnx: Replaced.17:39
aquatixhmm, public servant mafia...17:39
RST38hjohnx: The old style purple-suit guys got mostly killed or jailed17:39
Stskeepsi find it funny unlock hacks for iphone make it to be direct articles in newspapers..17:40
johnxI find it funny how people keep spending time working with non-open hardware17:40
RST38hjohnx: Instead, the place has gone to the old Soviet system where extensive laws made you guilty by definition and a government official could choose whether to let you live for now or prosecute you17:41
aquatixi find it funny how the iphone is considered revolutionary17:41
RST38hiPhone is shiny!17:41
aquatixso is my m600i :P17:41
RST38hShiny things are always revolutionary!17:41
aquatixand my phone has more buttons, so it's better ;)17:42
johnxRST38h, sounds like what the US or UK police will be like in 10-20 years17:42
RST38haquatix: your phone has no halo and iPhone does!17:42
aquatix(the iphone remembered me of my years old Sony Clie TH55)17:42
RST38hjohnx: Yes, in fact the longer I watch the crap ongoing in the States, the more I believe that17:42
aquatixRST38h: my phone has a C64 emulator and one for lucas arts games17:42
Stskeepsmm. c64 emu17:43
Stskeepswe have one for tablet yet? :P17:43
RST38haquatix: I think I also support m600i, as long as it is a UIQ phone17:43
johnxRST38h, used to get pulled over so often for crap reasons. my real crime was "driving a crappy car in a nice neighborhood, late at night"17:43
aquatixnot sure17:43
RST38hSts: think so, we have got Frodo17:43
aquatixRST38h: it's uiq317:43
RST38haquatix: Should work then17:43
aquatixyeah, frodo \o/17:43
aquatixRST38h: that's about halo?17:43
RST38hjohnx: I have only got into this situation once. NJ Turnpike. A car with MD plates full of young people.17:44
RST38hjohnx: Speeding of course, but who wasn't?17:44
aquatixjohnx: then steal a non-crappy car dammit17:44
RST38hjohnx: The NJ cops REALLY wanted me to pay at the spot17:44
johnxRST38h, lol. *I* wasn't. I got pulled over for slowing down after the police started tailgating me17:44
RST38hjohnx: I mean, really, REALLY wanted it17:44
derfThe first step to a police state is to make everyone a criminal.17:44
RST38hjohnx: "Hey, man, where the hell are you crawling?" ? =)17:45
derfBut I think the US has a long way to go to get there.17:45
RST38hderf: It only takes a very few corrections to the laws, really17:45
johnxderf, it's ok, we can get there together!17:45
RST38hderf: perfectly sellable to the public, once you terrorise it enough17:45
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derfRST38h: If the US survived the drug trade without becoming a police state, I'm at least cautiously optimistic about our long-term chances.17:46
aquatixthe US isn't a police state?17:46
RST38hderf: In fact, you already can't freely choose your conversation subjects while at airports, you can't freely take pictures17:46
Stskeepswtf @ 70's musical of war of the worlds..17:47
* aquatix looks at the requirements to get into the country, if only on vacation17:47
aquatixStskeeps: musical or that play?17:47
RST38hderf: You can't freely access stuff at the internet17:47
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Stskeepsaquatix: jeff wayne, so a musical17:47
aquatixStskeeps: the LP rocks :)17:47
derfRST38h: I can't?17:47
aquatixyeah, jeff wayne17:48
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Stskeepsit's still a bit of a wtf though :>17:48
RST38hderf: Nope - remember, the feds can always claim you are downloading child pornography *or* copyrighted stuff17:48
RST38hderf: In fact, they often do now.17:48
RST38hderf: Ah, btw, looking at bomb making tutorials is also off limits =)17:49
derfAnd those kinds of accusations are _very_ difficult to actually make stick in court.17:49
RST38hderf: They don't have to make 'em stick17:49
RST38hderf: Confiscating all your equipment and detaining you for a while are pretty nice tools on their own17:49
RST38hderf: Russians know it all too well17:50
Stskeepsderf: and having police come and confiscate your equipment and carrying you away in shackles is always a good way to estrange your neighbours .17:50
Stskeeps:P17:50
johnxdepends on the neighbors17:50
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johnxeither estranges you or makes you a local hero17:50
derfSo you think people should be "free" to download CP?17:50
RST38hjohnx: Sts is basically true as far as US is concerned17:50
RST38hjohnx: People are afraid and do not want to get involved17:51
derfRST38h: Not if you live in Texas.17:51
RST38hderf: I think vague, hard to prove claims should not be used for incrimination17:52
derfI'm not sure that that is a vague claim.17:52
RST38hderf: So, if some creep is jerking odd at child pornography, let him do it for now and go for the pornography SOURCE instead17:52
Stskeepspeople could really need a fair bit of common sense.. let's say, guy working in a kinder garden, gets some bogus claim against him that he touched a child inappropiately, and even if it was proved it definately never happened, the guy wouldn't be able to find work again in that area and rumours go fast..17:53
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Stskeeps:P17:53
RST38hderf: BTW, Sts is raising a good topic17:53
derfStskeeps: Sure, but that has nothing to do with the law.17:53
Stskeepsderf: it follows along with the fact people assume people who get arrested are guilty by definition :P17:53
RST38hderf: You know that US kindergarten personnel will not wipe your kid's ass unless you sign a paper explicitely freeing them from any liability? =)17:54
derfLast I checked the legal system in this country still used "innocent until proven guilty".17:54
RST38hderf: Correct.17:54
aquatixStskeeps: i really like that Jeff Wayne version though, even was a tad disappointed the new movie didn't include a piece of the music17:54
Stskeepsderf: i still wonder if innocent until proven guilty is against human nature..17:54
johnxRST38h, I'm beginning to believe that's a cultural thing, not really a legal one17:54
aquatixmovie was a big disappointment anyway17:54
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RST38hjohnx: Maybe, but it does not say anything good about the culture17:54
Stskeepsas in, i fully support the principle of innocent until proven guilty, but people act totally contrary to that at times17:54
derfBut people will only assume the arrested are guilty if the police actually only arrest guilty people most of the time.17:55
derfIf the police start getting out of hand, that assumption will correct itself.17:55
RST38hderf: Theoretically, yes17:55
johnxRST38h, it's an interesting balance between: easy to get people in trouble for things that never happened and impossible to get people held responsible for stuff that everyone knows happened17:55
RST38hderf: Practically, it depends on many factors.17:55
Stskeepsin .dk we have the interesting effect that people get worried if there are police on the street, instead of feeling more protected :P17:55
aquatix:)17:55
aquatixi have the same feeling actually17:56
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Stskeepscos if there -are- cops, it's a sign there's something up :P17:56
aquatixif i see police `hanging around', i start getting worried17:56
aquatixyeah17:56
Stskeepsthen again we have mostly sane police in .dk :P17:56
johnxStskeeps, same in the states. not so in Japan...because the police in Japan are largely ineffective except to give you directions17:56
RST38hjohnx: It's really easy to avoid, you just have to be prepared to live with the fact that some crap will go unpunished17:56
derfjohnx: That's because Japan doesn't have very much crime for them to be effective against.17:57
johnxRST38h, and that crap often comes from the highest levels.17:57
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RST38hjohnx: that too, but I mostly mean minor crap, copyright violations, people looking at stuff they are "not supposed" to look at etc17:57
johnxderf, also true...to a certain extent. though read any story about what happens in a Japanese high speed chase...17:57
RST38h<away>17:57
johnxRST38h, you don't get to pick and choose...it's a very broad cultural thing :P17:58
Stskeepsandrewfblack: how's the mer echo theme going btw?17:59
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derfjohnx: Google doesn't turn up any.18:02
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johnxderf, ah, sad. let me try and find it. it was truly epic if I recall18:02
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johnxderf, http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/news/42599718:07
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derfjohnx: That's what happens when you have lots of police and no crime.18:11
johnxand slow cars...and I have to assume little training into "offensive driving"18:12
lardmanslow cars? I some pretty quick Japanese cars18:12
johnxlardman, yeah. quicker than most police cars :P18:13
derfjohnx: But why would you invest in those things when they're not really a problem most of the time?18:13
lardmanyeah, well Police sholdn't chase people anyway18:13
lardmanthough I am tempted by the US approach of just shooting the buggers if they drive off18:14
johnxderf, the cars I will give you...the "what to do in a high speed chase" training should be part of any police training18:14
lardmanworks better than our method of chasing them endlessly until they or the Police car causes an accident of its own18:14
derflardman: I think that's what actually happened here.18:14
Stskeepsjohnx: think danish policy is they try to avoid high speed chases cos of the very potential damages18:14
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lardmanhelicopter + one or two cars driving at a safe distance; or shoot them :)18:15
johnxStskeeps, exactly. *that* makes the most sense. put up a helicopter as soon as you can and just follow 'em.18:15
* lardman thinks that Apache drivers could get some practice in18:15
aquatix:)18:16
aquatix`yeah, there was some colateral damage, but hey, we got that sucker!'18:16
lardman:D18:17
johnxor we could just install a police-override in every car...18:17
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aquatixjohnx: yeah, lets do that, and install the trusted computing platform too for good measure18:18
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johnxaquatix, for sure. and make sure we hand MS a fat contract to put wince on it18:19
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* Stskeeps tars up v0.518:25
johnxawesome18:25
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Stskeeps117mb tar.gz image18:34
Stskeeps(no clue about jffs2 atm)18:35
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qwerty12Stskeeps, want me to try and be the first to boot mer off flash? :P18:36
Stskeepshehe, if you want18:36
Stskeepsit isn't docpurged though18:36
qwerty12heh, docpurge isn't a hard thing to copy :P18:37
qwerty12117mb as a tar.gz should be fine though18:37
Stskeepsyeah, it can probably be more stripped down18:37
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qwerty12I'll need the deblet bootmenu right?18:37
Stskeepsdepends if you're going by booting something else than initfs or not18:37
Stskeepsjust hang on a bit while i test it on my own tablet first :)18:38
Meiz__n810Stskeeps: did you post a link? i missed (connection problems)18:38
Stskeepsno, not yet18:38
Meiz__n810k18:38
qwerty12Stskeeps, well, I can't do much else if I don't have a link ;P18:38
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qwerty12may as well get prepared meanwhile by dumping the contents of my current flash into a jffs2 image ;)18:39
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Stskeepswe so need an initial image before hildon boots..18:49
Stskeepsi suddenly understand why the hands image is there18:49
Stskeeps:P18:49
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Stskeepsqwerty12: you were talking about dialog placement patch?18:49
* qwerty12 refrains from pointing you to Benson's modification of the image18:49
johnxhow about a picture of the desktop?18:49
Stskeepshehe18:49
Stskeepstake a screenshot once its rendered? ;)18:50
johnxexactly!18:50
qwerty12Stskeeps, well, I don't think Matan released the source but he released a binary. Maybe if you ask nicely...18:50
johnxit would be just like windows 95 -> XP or so18:50
Meizirkki_hehe, is it possible to add Composite option into xorg.conf?18:50
Meizirkki_in Mert18:51
Stskeepsno clue18:51
Meizirkki_Mer18:51
Meizirkki_jauntys xcompmgr and transset are working btw18:51
qwerty12Doesn't that mean that composite is already enabled then?18:51
qwerty12s/composite/compositing/18:51
infobotqwerty12 meant: Doesn't that mean that compositing is already enabled then?18:51
* Stskeeps notes to himself the he can't kill root proceses when hildon is running as user..18:52
Meizirkki_no, but they work if installed and startted18:52
Meizirkki_-t18:52
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RST38h<back>18:52
johnxStskeeps, echo PREFERED_USER=root > /etc/default/autologin18:52
Stskeepshttp://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.5.tar.gz ready for consumption18:52
johnxwe can *do* things like that now :)18:52
Stskeepshehe18:53
RST38hWho wanted emulators for an UIQ3 gadget?18:53
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* qwerty12 remembers posting links to the first 2 you released for uiq3 on ipmart :P18:54
Stskeepspirate? :>18:54
RST38hwhat is ipmart, anyway?18:54
RST38hUIQ3 Binaries: http://fms.komkon.org/EmuSymbian/ (follow instructions)18:55
qwerty12RST38h, dunno, I just like the forum :P. Although my service cable I bought for Sony Ericsson from Germany has the ipmart logo on it :P18:55
qwerty12Stskeeps, yep, I used to share actually...18:55
Stskeepsqwerty12: btw osso-xterm crashes :(18:56
qwerty12Stskeeps, roxterm? :(18:56
Stskeepsor at least it did on x8618:56
Meizirkki_qwerty12: roxterm did not kick up h-i-m lats time i tried18:57
qwerty12Meizirkki_, damn :(18:57
Meizirkki_Maybe osso-xterm will work on arm :)18:58
* RST38h asks the Tentacled One to reveal to him the secret of settings dialog implementation in S60e518:58
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cthulhuRST38h, no18:59
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RST38hqwerty, thr false god18:59
qwerty12:P18:59
Stskeepsnop, crashes on mer too18:59
Stskeeps(armel)18:59
Meizirkki_:(19:00
Meizirkki_how about installing the original maemo one ? :P19:00
RST38hqwerty: The Tentacled One will punish you for that. And for those octopus sushi you had!19:00
Stskeepswell this is the original, except its trunk  :P19:01
Meizirkki_yep19:01
johnxRST38h, mmmm, kaiten-zushi!19:01
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qwerty12RST38h, hmm, I've always wondered how good cthulhu tasted when barbecued....19:01
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RST38hqwerty: like rubber.19:01
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johnxyeah, tako sashimi is even when *good* and *fresh* very chewy19:02
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StskeepsMeizirkki_: happen to know if mono was ported to ubuntu arm?19:03
Stskeeps(.. just for kicks)19:03
Meizirkki_i don't know...19:03
Meizirkki_i'll install i386 version of Mer soon (before the limitless connection will be down)19:04
Stskeepsmm, thats not that easy though19:05
Stskeepsjohnx: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/armel/cacao-oj6-jdk/6b13~pre1-0ubuntu219:05
Stskeepscould also do an interesting demo with this :P19:05
qwerty12Stskeeps, what's latest version of deblet bootmenu?19:05
johnxis there something that runs on java that you actually need?19:05
qwerty12oh, er, I assume it's in the deblet repo. sorry.19:05
Stskeepsno clue, but taking j2me / j2se apps couldn't be bad :P19:06
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johnxah, natively running j2me would be darn neat19:06
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Stskeepsbuilding phoneme shouldn't be impossible19:06
johnxsomeone needs to integrate davlik into a normal linux install...19:07
johnxthe whole environment I'm not too fond of ... but there are some really neat apps19:07
Stskeepshm, jalimo doesn't seem that insane19:08
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RST38hSts: I would suggest sticking with j2me19:10
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RST38hSts: The only question is whether you will find a small enough runtime environment19:10
Meizirkki_If i want to install hildon-desktop-env to my ubuntu-box these packages will be removed19:10
Meizirkki_fast-user-switch-applet gconf2-common gnome-applets gnome-control-center19:10
Meizirkki_  gnome-panel gnome-session gnome-themes gtk2-engines-pixbuf19:10
Meizirkki_  libgnomevfs2-common libgnomevfs2-extra nautilus nautilus-cd-burner19:10
Meizirkki_  nautilus-share ubuntu-desktop19:10
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RST38hjohnx: AFAIK, Davlik won't run standard j2me apps19:11
johnxRST38h, I'm interested in android apps more than j2me apps really19:11
StskeepsRST38h: well, i dont want to run j2me in internal flash19:11
RST38hjohnx: If we are talking about pirat^H^H^Hstandard j2me games, you only need j2me and a couple of platform extensions19:11
StskeepsMeizirkki_: mm, be aware that this is jaunty, not intrepid19:11
RST38hjohnx: Then you want to port the whole android19:11
Stskeepsand i wouldn't recommend what you're doing19:11
RST38hjohnx: Including the kernel I am afraid19:12
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RST38hjohnx: Somebody at this channel once said that there are kernel changes needed for android to work properly19:12
johnxRST38h, me19:12
RST38hPhoneME would probably work except for two things:19:13
johnxRST38h, *I* said it. and it's true, for the current implementation of davlik and the libc it runs on...19:13
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RST38hjohnx: Then things are fucked =( Unless these kernel extensions are harmless enough to just roll them into Mer19:13
johnxRST38h, it's just a better low memory killer, and some other crap. I'm sure it can be abstracted away by a different implementation of the davlik vm19:14
yigalwhat is the easiest way to install a recent abiword.19:14
yigals/./?19:14
RST38hPhoneME: 1) make sure SSL sources are included into it (that is a gotcha SUN plays to make you pay them) and 2) If it uses KVM, things will be dead slow19:14
Meizirkki_Stskeeps: i'll still...19:14
Meizirkki_:P19:14
RST38hyigal: Add extras-devel, install, remove extras-devel19:14
StskeepsMeizirkki_: if you nuke your ubuntu install, it's not my fault ;)19:15
RST38hyigal: Do you read Hebrew by any chance?19:15
* ShadowJK 'd want to run opera mini19:15
Meizirkki_Stskeeps: i know, i often nuke my ubuntu19:15
Stskeepsyeah, true, opera mini would be a hit19:15
qwerty12They had it running on psp iirc...19:16
RST38hqwerty: PSP is a different CPU.19:16
qwerty12if the joystick on mine wasn't fucked, I'd be probably using it. web browser on psp fat sucks19:16
qwerty12RST38h, i'm talking about opera mini here, does cpu really matter?19:17
yigalRST38h: a bit19:17
qwerty12this was an j2me emulator19:17
RST38hqwerty: Yep. If SUN does not provide SSL sources OR objects for ARM, you are fucked.19:17
RST38hqwerty: If there are AT LEAST objects you can link (i.e. they use your ABI), then you are in business to compile PhoneME19:18
RST38hyigal: Would you care to translate this graffiti: http://community.livejournal.com/idu_shagayu/1706917.html ?19:18
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yigalRST38h: my parents married in Israel but I was born and raised in the states so I really mean only a little, I can try.19:20
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RST38hqwerty: In fact, it may be a good idea to do for NIT - the Jalimo guys appear to be pretty self-centered, they do not intend Jalimo to do any practical work19:21
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* Stskeeps tries to install abiword on mer19:22
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Meizirkki_rzr: Mer 0.5 now available19:26
Meizirkki_http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.5.tar.gz19:26
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yigalRST38H: I am too much a lazy American, now I feel I should be studying hebrew, I can read it but I don't understand what is written.19:28
cityLightssI lost my /home dir on the SD. I used to boot of SD and run two programs that where using files, after restarting I lost all my /home19:28
KhertanHello everybody !19:28
cityLightssis there a fix?19:28
Meizirkki_Khertan: hi19:29
johnxcityLightss, so you can't see anything under /home ?19:29
rzrhi19:29
rzrMeizirkki_: great19:29
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johnxcityLightss, what filesystem were you using?19:29
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RST38hyigal: Hehe, I know the feeling :)19:29
rzrMeizirkki: have to test this too19:29
Meizirkkii'm (still) downloading19:29
cityLightssI boot of the flash and mount the /dev/mmcblk0p2 no /home there19:30
cityLightssused to be ext219:30
Stskeepsrzr: be aware it needs deblet bootmenu and other funny stuff :P19:30
Stskeepsjust so you're warned :)19:30
rzr:)19:30
johnxcityLightss, have you tried running fsck on it? or looking into undelete programs for ext2?19:31
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cityLightssfsck claims the file system is clean19:31
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ShadowJKopera claims to have implemented their own ssl anyway, blaming vendor ssl implementations of being too buggy to use19:33
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cityLightssok of to google...19:36
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qwerty12Stskeeps, will have to shrink mer a bit :). jffs2 image is 253.3 mb and after sumtooling it, it comes to 265.3 mb19:38
qwerty12no wait. I'm a bellend.19:38
Khertanhuhu19:38
qwerty12I made the image with the tar.gz in it >.<19:38
KhertanARF !19:38
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qwerty12Stskeeps, that's better :). 146.0 mb now :)19:40
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Stskeepsta, qwerty1219:41
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* Stskeeps has 3 screenshots coming up ..19:42
qwerty12Stskeeps, is bootmenu_1.4_armel.deb your latest bootmenu :)19:42
johnxah, fallout from the gconf transition: need to put the right path in start-hildon :)19:43
Stskeepsjohnx: if its in deblet repository, yes19:43
Stskeepsjohnx: so gconf isnt started?19:44
Stskeepsthat might be why some stuff doesnt work :P19:44
johnxcertainly possible19:44
Stskeepshttp://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer0.5/Screenshot-1.png (roxterm) , http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer0.5/Screenshot-2.png (abiword) , http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer0.5/Screenshot-3.png (abiword with text)19:44
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johnxlooks ok, need to pull in the extras-devel abiword now :)19:45
qwerty12use the roxterm I put in extras, it has some hildonisations on it (which I need to improve come think of it..)19:45
Stskeepshehe19:45
Stskeepsqwerty12: i don't recall, did i add you to builder or not? :P19:46
Khertan@18:4419:46
Khertan@18:4319:46
KhertanGarage Band 0919:46
Khertan@18:4319:46
Khertan@18:4219:46
KhertanGarage Band 0919:46
Khertan@18:4219:46
Stskeepsyou have a ~/incoming at least19:46
KhertanApplaudissement plus enthousiastes après cette fin de démo. Phil est de retour.19:46
Khertan@18:4119:46
KhertanNavigation dans les cartes, effets, etc.19:46
qwerty12Stskeeps, if you did, I don't ever remember saying you did :p19:46
Khertan@18:4019:46
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KhertanRetour des effets spéciaux, avec les rayons X, sépia, etc.19:46
Stskeepshighly possible19:46
Khertanoups19:46
Khertansorry19:46
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qwerty12although I notice the xchat I put in incoming hasn't been added :P19:47
Stskeepsqwerty12: your trac.tspre.org account, clean out ~/incoming , upload there, and ssh qwerty12@trac.tspre.org /import-new-packages (source packages only)19:47
Stskeepsand then i think you have access to builder already19:47
Stskeeps(on #merbuilder jaiku919:48
qwerty12ok, the rest of my packages are there afaik, I'll try adding xchat and see how it works out19:48
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Stskeepsjohnx: pushing hildon-desktop-env update?19:49
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johnxin a sec.19:49
Stskeepsk19:49
Stskeepsimpatient cos of osso-xterm itch ;)19:49
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johnxI'll tell you if it fixes it :P19:50
qwerty12~mer19:50
infobotmer is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint19:50
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johnxStskeeps, looks like no love :/19:51
Stskeepsdamnit :P19:51
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qwerty12whee, xchat is building :)19:53
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* Meiz_n810 boots to Mer19:55
qwerty12I think the extras autobuilder could do with stealing some ideas, this gives you a log on the fly and is actually fast ;)19:55
johnxqwerty12, it'll slow down if more people hit it I'm sure...19:55
Stskeepsyeah, but it's also loaded with some severe craq things and bugs :P19:55
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johnxalso it's our official position that Maemo should be stealing *all our ideas* :)19:56
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qwerty12Stskeeps, should libtool be a dependency?19:56
qwerty12s/dependency/build-depends/19:57
infobotqwerty12 meant: Stskeeps, should libtool be a build-depends?19:57
Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah, we're not scratchbox on x8619:57
Stskeepsit should be assumed we have nothing but traditional build-essentials19:57
Stskeepsqwerty12: was it gnumeric you people had huge problems with, btw?19:57
qwerty12I'm getting used to the niceties of sbox it seems :)19:58
qwerty12Stskeeps, no idea, i've never touched gnumeric19:58
Stskeepsk19:58
qwerty12Can I replace the source package with a fixed source package that has the same version number?19:58
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* GeneralAntilles sighs @ #351919:59
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Stskeepsqwerty12: we have pinnings in place, and you can do build package=version19:59
qwerty12ok19:59
Stskeepsor was it qalculate?20:00
qwerty12Stskeeps, ah, qalculate it was, yes. lardman got it to run and I just made the package nicer to install :P20:00
Stskeepsalright20:00
johnxGeneralAntilles, yeah, not the kind of thing to encourage people to submit patches...20:01
qwerty12hi GeneralAntilles. back to using the full nick I see :D20:02
johnxStskeeps, how did your sapwood bug turn out? any activity recently?20:02
andrewfblackGeneralAntilles link?20:02
Stskeepsjohnx: not recently20:02
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johnxandrewfblack, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=351920:02
andrewfblackjohnx thanks20:03
Stskeepsthen again people are just returning from holidays20:03
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, ooh, good angle.20:03
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Stskeepsi'm just looking forward to a faster omapfb xorg driver :)20:04
Stskeepsfb_update_mode auto is just nasty20:04
johnxwell, falling back to xomap would be annoying but not a huge deal really20:05
Stskeepsi couldn't compile it last time20:05
johnxoh20:05
Stskeepstoo ancient X headers20:05
GeneralAntillesMore silliness: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393720:06
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qwerty12fuck, I forgot to disable vdso when I let my menu.lst be replaced20:06
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StskeepsMeizirkki: success or broke?20:08
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MeizirkkiUbuntu-box: broken. :P20:09
Meizirkkin810: still unable to boot :(20:09
Stskeepshmm.20:09
Stskeepsthat's odd20:09
StskeepsINT_CARD vs EXT_CARD maybe?20:10
Meizirkkino20:10
andrewfblackso on #3519 no unless you buy a new device and on #3937 just plain no we don't want to make it easier to install software20:10
Meizirkkibut i have r&d mode on... Can it harm?20:10
StskeepsMeizirkki: no, i have that too, i think20:10
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, tz is the one in the wrong in #393720:10
johnxgdebi would be nice for opening debs20:10
GeneralAntillesAlsO:20:10
GeneralAntilles~mer20:10
infobotmethinks mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint20:10
Meizirkkii reistalled bootmenu installer, now trying again20:11
andrewfblackI can see #3937 fron both sides20:11
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Stskeepsisnt "red pill" basically just installing stuff that isn't in user/, or how was it?20:11
qwerty12Well, tz1 is right in that app manager should resolve dependencies when installing locally from a deb file.20:11
qwerty12Dunno about what else he is talking about though.20:11
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I don't know what tz thinking it is.20:12
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: the matrix? :P20:12
GeneralAntillesMostly, I think he thinks it's a magic talisman that solves world hunger.20:12
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, look at it when considering people who don't have your skills, though.20:12
andrewfblackbut I am so tired of fixed in fremantle to me everytime they fix something in fremantle and not diablo they are telling me we are not fixing our broke os if i want a good one buy a new tablet.20:12
GeneralAntillesInstalling random debs from everywhere isn't something that should be encouraged for them.20:12
GeneralAntillesAs it'll mostly get them things that may not work well or they don't know what to do with.20:13
qwerty12Fair enough.20:13
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GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, again:20:13
GeneralAntilles~mer20:13
infobotrumour has it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint20:13
johnxGeneralAntilles, but telling them to use dpkg and apt-get on the CLI isn't the right answer either20:13
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Stskeepsandrewfblack: btw you didn't answer my question on Mer Echo :)20:13
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, it's not really as black and white as all that.20:13
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yes, the right answer is getting the .deb into Extras. :P20:14
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andrewfblackStskeeps didn't see the question20:14
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johnxGeneralAntilles, I think there's room for gdebi ... I should try it under mer20:14
Stskeepsandrewfblack: ah, i was just asking how it was going with it20:14
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qwerty12Stskeeps, have you had dpkg-genbuilddeps play nice with your sdk?20:14
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andrewfblackStskeeps well its looks nothing lol echo really anymore but its a solid UI I think you will like it20:15
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Stskeepsandrewfblack: as long as it's not plankton..20:15
Stskeeps:P20:15
qwerty12got it, I needed to install devscripts.20:15
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, I don't think time should be wasted coding for a niche-usecase that benefits very few people directly and could seriously harm others in the process.20:15
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: still no luck, i even tried to use bootmenu with no linuxrc, and now i cannot get the linuxrc back :(20:16
andrewfblackStskeeps I drew ideas from several themes including Echo. Nuvo, and Titan.  Does the deb need to be repackaged to work in mer?20:16
Stskeepsandrewfblack: not sure, didnt try it yet, hoping to get meiz to do it when his mer runs ;)20:16
StskeepsMeizirkki: k .. when you have time, reflash, install bootmenu deb, and install bootmenu20:16
Stskeepsand then write a bootmenu.d item in /etc/bootmenu.d and refresh_bootmenu.d20:17
qwerty12Stskeeps, not worth building yet... http://pastebin.com/d7c4eb3f320:18
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Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah, ran into same problem20:18
Stskeepsqwerty12: eabi qemu, and in the sb-conf install, add --fakeroot after devkit20:19
Stskeeps--devkits, that is20:19
Stskeepswe had same builder problem yesterday and forgot to change wiki20:19
qwerty12Stskeeps, does http://pastebin.com/d30dce919 look ok to you? :P20:23
qwerty12Or should I resort to modifying linuxrc directly?20:23
Stskeepsqwerty12: i wouldn't bet my horses on it, but maybe? O_o20:23
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qwerty12Only one way to find out :P20:24
Stskeepsi dunno if flash is done differently so20:24
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* johnx bets Stskeeps' horses20:24
andrewfblackStskeeps ok I'll send you over the deb for it on friday I should have time to get it mostly finished by then20:24
Stskeepsqwerty12: else a item with jffs2 and such options may work :P20:24
Stskeepsandrewfblack: alright, sounds good :)20:25
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qwerty12Stskeeps, I'll do that incase actually, once I'm out of Maemo, things will be a little more annoying if I need to make a change :P20:25
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: sprint meeting was tomorrow?20:29
qwerty12Well, it boots from flash! :)20:30
Stskeepswoo :)20:30
Stskeeps.. and it gets how far? ;)20:31
qwerty12Well, I'm at the desktop :P20:31
Stskeepswoo20:31
Stskeepsand we welcome qwerty12 to the club of people who successfully got mer running ;)20:31
qwerty12I can upload the jffs2 image somewhere if you wish?20:31
Stskeepsif you want, or just instructions so builder can make them too20:32
qwerty12Here's the item file I used: http://pastebin.com/f1fa3eab20:32
qwerty12Stskeeps, with mtd-tools installed, extract mer image to some folder (I used 232 out of randomness) and from .., run mkfs.jffs2 -r 232/ -o 232.jffs2 -e 128 -l -n and then use sumtool: sumtool -i 232.jffs2 -o 232sumtool.jffs2 -e 128KiB -l -n20:33
Stskeeps*nod* similar i did originally20:34
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qwerty12Though I see I am spoilt for choice regarding apps ;)20:34
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Stskeepsyeah.. not much included in the bas e:P20:35
qwerty12How does usbnet get started? :P20:35
Stskeepsrescue menu, hold down home key after selecting bootmenu item20:36
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qwerty12wicked20:36
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qwerty12yay, usbnet works :)20:38
MeizirkkiStskeeps: i disabled rd-mode flashed original kernel and initfs, flashed bootmenu, made mer.item, refreshed bootmenu, and it still refuses to even try to run the linuxrc on mer partition :( grr...20:39
StskeepsMeizirkki: hmmm.20:39
Stskeepscacn i see the mer.item you made now?20:39
Meizirkkiyes20:39
qwerty12shitfuck, at least internet doesn't work over usb20:41
lcuklanguage!  dont go swearing all over the place without a fucking big reason20:41
Meizirkkiinstall wireless-tools and you can connect to open ap:s20:41
Stskeepsqwerty12: edit /etc/resolv.conf20:41
Stskeepsand check your default route is ok20:42
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, I believe so.20:42
MeizirkkiSts pastebin.com/m3773612820:42
johnxqwerty12, zenity looks great in Mer :D20:42
qwerty12Meizirkki, thanks, will remember that but first I need an internet connection :P20:42
qwerty12johnx, wicked :D20:42
qwerty12Stskeeps, thanks20:43
johnxyeah, means I don't have to learn gtk+ or even try and remember C20:43
* lcuk is feckin freezin20:43
MeizirkkiStskeeps: it just says boot from mer failed, booting from flash...20:43
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ah :/ not going to be able to attend, - going to a resturant as part of finishing a work project.20:43
MeizirkkiStskeeps: it does not even try to start the linuxrc20:44
Stskeepsand it is on the external card?20:44
Stskeepson partition 2? :P20:44
qwerty12bollocks, can't deal with all this now, going to reflash back to maemo20:45
Meizirkkiyes it is20:45
StskeepsMeizirkki: and it is ext3 format? :P20:45
Meizirkkiyes, i'm not that stupid...20:45
Stskeepsdidn't say you were :)20:45
Meizirkki:)20:45
qwerty12johnx, did you remove sstrip dependency out of interest? :)20:46
StskeepsMeizirkki: there's a possibility that it's because you used busybox tar20:46
johnxqwerty12, yeah, wouldn't build in builder and sstrip doesn't exist for ARM :P20:47
Stskeepstry get 'gnutar' from extras, re-make FS and unpack again20:47
Meizirkki!! i have flashed initfs with diabos original fiasco now 3 times and bootmenu even more times and still there is bootmenu.conf in initfs, that i made 6 hours ago!20:47
Meizirkkiand that's not even working bootmenu20:47
qwerty12johnx, yeah, I think I quickly debianied it and uploaded it for maemo only20:47
Meizirkki.conf20:47
StskeepsMeizirkki: impressive20:47
Stskeepscan you show me your /etc/bootmenu.conf ?20:48
qwerty12johnx, glad they came in use though :)20:48
johnxqwerty12, no worries. it works a treat even with the strange button placement in fremantle's gtk20:48
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StskeepsMeizirkki: /etc/bootmenu.conf gets copied to initfs too so20:48
johnxqwerty12, it'll be the first thing anyone sees in Mer :)20:48
qwerty12wicked :D20:48
MeizirkkiStskeeps: hmm, i edited it directly, still fails20:48
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: /mnt/initfs should be read-only?20:49
StskeepsMeizirkki: yeah20:49
StskeepsMeizirkki: grab http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/bootmenu.conf , put in /etc/bootmenu.conf, refresh_bootmenu.d20:49
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Stskeeps(on maemo, not in initfs)20:50
MeizirkkiStskeeps: that's a clone of mine...20:50
Stskeepsmmk20:50
Stskeepsthen run the "install bootmenu" menu item again20:50
Meizirkkiwhat??20:50
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Meizirkkiokay20:51
Meizirkkimy bootmenu.conf is not like that20:51
Stskeepsand verify that /mnt/initfs/etc/bootmenu.conf is the same as /etc/bootmenu.conf20:51
Meizirkkii removed bootmenu installer with --purge and the old file is still there?20:51
Stskeepsmm20:51
Stskeepspossibly20:51
qwerty12_N800johnx, when I saw what it was being used for, gnomecanvas dependency annoyed me :p. you may have seen the chunk of code i removed in the diff.gz :p20:52
MeizirkkiStskeeps: my bad again, thanks for help :P20:52
johnxand the first pass at first-boot-wizard works!20:54
Stskeepswoo20:55
johnxwish zenity had a "multiple text entry" dialog though20:55
Stskeepsand it does what?20:55
Stskeepsjohnx: think you'd have to drag out glade and python for that :P20:55
johnxjust gets a name and username to be used by adduser20:55
Stskeeps*nod*20:55
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, now that we've seen that mer is flash proof, i demand an jffs2 image is released with each tarball :p20:56
Stskeepshehe20:57
Stskeepsits basically same source material20:57
Stskeepsi do the tarring up manually :P20:57
qwerty12_N800hehe :P20:58
x29afolks, i have some difficulties understanding the external boot thingie. i need some special bootloader in flash which enables me to select ext sd as bootsource right?20:59
qwerty12_N800i'll flash back the mer jffs2 image i made after school, i had to gtfo from my computer and wanted to have a tablet i could use :p20:59
Stskeepshehe20:59
x29afurthermore i clone a rootfs on my external card after formatting it appropriatly (with first partition beeing some vfat, then ext2/3)20:59
x29ais that it?20:59
Stskeepsx29a: basically we have a additional thing in initfs that enables you to start other things than the internal flash21:00
x29aok, that part is working, i can select (like in grub) where i want to boot from21:00
Stskeepsyeah :P21:00
x29ai did the clonethingie to my external sd, but it cant boot from there (the script where you do the steps from 0 to 5 or so)21:01
x29aso it falls back to flash (which is a good thing!!!! phew), there i can see my external card (the vfat partition) but my internal one anymore21:01
x29aim on N810, btw21:01
Stskeepsmm, there's also stuff like console-tools which can do the stuff for you21:03
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johnxwhat else needs to be set on first boot: User's fullname, username and tablet's hostname/bluetooth name. any other ideas? Does anyone feel strongly that location should be set?21:04
Stskeepstimezone21:05
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johnxok, I can do that in zenity21:05
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* johnx ganks tzselect in large chunks21:07
towooh noes!21:08
johnxwow...that's some somewhat involved bash code O_o21:09
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: success or it broke again? :P21:09
Meiz_n810success :)21:09
Stskeepsgood21:10
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Meiz_n810i'm lost with this 5gb/month.21:11
Stskeepshehe21:11
Stskeepspoor meiz21:11
Meiz_n810near 3gb already used21:11
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Meiz_n810i can dl everything at school .P21:11
Meiz_n810:P21:11
Stskeepsyeah :P21:12
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: i nagged about slow internet before, now i am magging about datalimit... how long it takes before ChanServ kicks me outta here...21:13
Meiz_n810:)21:13
StskeepsMeiz_n810: no clue :P21:13
StskeepsMeiz_n810: when you have time, test if you can make andrewfblack's Mer Echo theme run in .. Mer21:14
Meiz_n810tomorrow i think ...21:14
Meiz_n810it's late and tomorrow i can use schools internet21:15
Stskeepsyep21:15
Meiz_n810Stskeeps btw, did you find out what i screwed in my little theme installer) :P21:15
Stskeepsnop21:15
Stskeepsdidnt use it :P21:16
Meiz_n810hehe21:16
Meiz_n810maybe i'll forget about it :P21:16
Stskeepsnaah :P21:16
qwerty12_N800hmm, don't think I do want to find out... :p21:16
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: installing nokia themes and such into mer, script :P21:17
qwerty12_N800hehe :P21:17
Meiz_n810(first script i have ever made...)21:17
qwerty12_N800Meiz_n810, have you released it or does only Stskeeps have it? :)21:18
Meiz_n810hmm..21:18
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Stskeepstrac.tspre.org/meiz has it, doesnt it?21:18
Meiz_n810trac.tspre.org/meiz21:18
Meiz_n810yep21:18
qwerty12_N800I'll have to see about running a dns server on my computer :>, or if i am lucky, I can forward dns requests over usb to my router :)21:20
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: you have masqurading or?21:21
Stskeeps(sp)21:21
Stskeepsbecause you should really just be able to put your usbnet at 2.1, route add default gw 2.1, and etc/resolv.conf to whatever21:22
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, it should be according to the lines in interfaces...21:22
Stskeepshmm.21:22
Stskeepsalso mer interfaces?21:22
johnxfinally a Maemo based distro that covers the Anarctic timezone properly. next step: ensuring we run on hardware that works at -60C21:23
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Stskeepsheh heh21:23
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, hmm, not there. i was hoping it was done automatically :p21:23
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: think im just missing tablet-network-setup or something21:24
qwerty12_N800Meiz_n810, boo, zenity! :p21:24
Meiz_n810?21:24
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, w/out at least an usb connection to the internet, I can't do much :/21:24
Meiz_n810zenity was conflicting when i made that script.. :P21:25
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: good point21:25
qwerty12_N800Meiz_n810, instead of gxmessage (don't worry, i'm biased after spending 2 hours packaging it :p)21:25
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johnxyeah, zenity is working great for the timezone picker. probably faster than the fancy-shmancy map based one :)21:26
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qwerty12_N800but at least i know why cdbs has the letters bs in it :p21:28
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johnxlol...no one will be missing a time zone this time21:31
johnxclose that bug right now :)21:31
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Stskeepsheh, http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS3781573061.html21:38
johnxcause they've only been running debian since ... forever21:38
Stskeepsyeah21:38
Meiz_n810why jaunty?...21:40
RST38hAm I correct predicting that at least 70% of comments will be along the lines of "Well, choice is good! This is the power of open source!" ?21:40
Meiz_n810s/jaunty/hasty21:40
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah, pondered that one too21:40
johnxStskeeps, they started on hasty from mojo. guess it would be a pain to re-base when jaunty is still missing stuff for armel21:41
Stskeeps*nod*21:41
Meiz_n810powerlaunch near in todo list?21:41
johnxRST38h, an appropriate amount of choice is healthy for an appropriately sized community21:41
RST38hjohnx: This has nothing to do with the nature of my prediction ;)21:42
johnxRST38h, comments where? if you mean here on #maemo then I'll take that bet...21:43
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: i think other people should hack at it.. i don't have sufficient time until end of this month to hack freely :P21:43
Meiz_n810okay :P21:43
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Khertanmust go on ...21:45
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Khertansee you later ...21:45
Khertanbye21:45
Meiz_n810bye21:45
johnxlater Khertan21:45
RST38hjohnx: No, comments to the linuxdevices articles at the same site21:45
Meiz_n810i hope solca will release first version of NITselector soon :)21:45
RST38hjohnx: I have kinda better opinion about #maemo regulars :)21:45
johnxRST38h, it's actually a news site, not a blog. no comments there...21:46
RST38hno forum? weird21:46
StskeepsMeiz_n810: sadly there's a problem with kexec :(21:46
johnxhuh, there is a forum21:46
StskeepsMeiz_n810: it only works if r&d serial console is enabled21:46
johnxnever knew that21:46
RST38hthere has to be a forum :)21:46
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qwerty12_N800it's on oesf iirc21:47
Meiz_n810:(21:47
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: there's actually an ultraboard one P21:48
johnxRST38h, actually the linuxdevices forum looks pretty serious. lots of questions about (*drumroll please*) embedded linux21:48
RST38humgh21:48
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* GeneralAntilles is now all provisioned up.21:50
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Stskeepstime for blogging? :>21:50
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, maybe.21:51
GeneralAntillesFor some reason the break not only drained all of my available freetime, but sapped all of my strength for stuff like that. :P21:51
* Stskeeps slides the coffee pot across to GeneralAntilles21:52
* GeneralAntilles doesn't do caffeine21:52
johnxGeneralAntilles, you should start21:52
GeneralAntillesNo, because if I do I'm just going to waste lots of money on it and become dependent. :P21:52
johnxonly $20-$30/month for me ... caffeine is running the mer project :)21:53
Stskeepssure is21:53
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GeneralAntillesHehe21:55
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johnxalso, they hand out coffee for free in lots of places, especially at jobs21:56
Stskeepsyeah, i get 70% of my coffee at work atm too :P21:56
bakaratis there some sort of mapping software (opensource preferably) that allows offline routing?21:56
bakaratthe routing that i need in my country seems to be pretty much complete21:56
bakarat(on openstreetmap)21:56
* qwerty12_N800 gets his caffeine fix with energy drinks, not a fan of tea or coffee21:57
johnxbakarat, I think I mentioned roadmap earlier21:57
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bakaratjohnx, ah yes21:58
bakaratbut i could not find exactly what you meant21:58
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bakaratbut i think i misunderstood then21:58
bakarathehe21:58
Meiz_n810"omegamoon" is crazy... "NOW KEEP CLICKING THOSE ADS" :P but seriously Google is able to make him pay back everything he have get and even more...21:58
* GeneralAntilles going to survive the Zombie Apocalypse to build back his strength. :P21:58
StskeepsMeiz_n810: much of the work i do in mer directly converts to work at my work.. without that i couldn't make a reasonable argument for spending this much time on it :P22:00
Meiz_n810true :P22:00
Stskeepsfrom an economic point of view22:00
johnxbakarat, search on itt for it. there's one other map program I think that uses OSM vector routing too, but I don't remember right now22:00
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: you shoud get a ad banner somewhere :P22:01
Stskeepsheh, nah22:01
bakaratjohnx, installing the roadmap22:01
Meiz_n810s/shoud get a/should get an/22:01
infobotMeiz_n810 meant: Stskeeps: you should get an ad banner somewhere :P22:01
bakaratjohnx, would you happen to know if it also allows downloading of maps?22:01
Meiz_n810too much typos22:01
* Stskeeps will be perfectly happy to be able to put it on CV and gain contacts, personally :P22:01
bakarat(in much the same way as mapper i mean)22:02
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, do a nokia and make an ad displaing applet :p22:02
qwerty12_N800*displaying22:02
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: "you can buy Mer Professional here"?22:02
Stskeeps:P22:02
Stskeeps(i'm kidding.)22:02
bakarato btw, small question, i am using evolution on two pc's (desktop @ home and laptop @ work)22:02
bakarati would like to synchronize them and the pda22:02
qwerty12_N800with wireless capability? :p22:02
bakaratbut i found that i can only successfully sync 1 calendar22:02
bakaratif i try multiple, the pda combines them into one22:02
Stskeepsyes, and unlocking usb host mode costs 10$22:03
bakaratand sends the combined calendar back to the computers22:03
Stskeepsthat could be a business model22:03
Stskeeps:P22:03
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: "home-Donate"22:03
bakarat(using gpe-* software and opensync)22:03
Meiz_n810:P22:03
johnxStskeeps, new user accounts are $5 right to johnxx's paypal account :)22:03
johnxzenity --take-their-money "got your money"22:03
Meiz_n810heh22:04
Meiz_n810:)22:04
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, i'll fix the xchat package  when I can fix the sdk to let me actually install the build-depends22:05
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: saw the --fakeroot mesagE?22:06
Stskeepsyou can see in builder logs what it does, btw22:06
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Stskeepsor make a qemu-arm-eabi package ;)22:07
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, yeah, I may take the lazy way out and see where it fucks up each time and keep reuploading :p22:08
Stskeepshehe22:08
* RST38h slowly makes his way through new S60 bugs22:09
johnxwe better get a lot of use out of this timezone picker >_<22:10
qwerty12_N800hah, the devil has possessed my maemo.org profile :p22:10
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* RST38h kinda knows the name of that devil22:11
RST38hHe is probably asleep now though22:11
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: karma 666? heh22:13
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, yep :P, as karma is updated as one lump, i'm spooked that it found its way to that number :p22:14
lcukstatic linking vs dynamic:    from a coding perspective, is there a noticable difference, or does it just effect how the end user gets it (with simpler less dependencies if static linking is used) ?22:14
RST38honly the end user is affected22:16
RST38hthere are also a few quirks related to how dynamic linker behaves when it encounters duplicated names in different dependencies, but you probably don't have to worry about it22:16
lcukand if another developer wanted to create another app, do they just install the -dev like currently occurs22:17
RST38h?22:17
johnxlcuk, if you plan for more than one app based on that library to run at the same time, dynamic linking lets both apps use the same copy of the library in memory22:17
lcukbut thats not entirely a good thing right now, theres a ocuple of statics which im having trouble shifting out of the way22:18
lcukglobals rather22:18
bakarathmm, bit tricky to download first maps on roadmap :|22:18
bakaratthe roadmap map itself is empty, i have no gps fix cause i'm inside trying to download maps :D22:18
bakaratso i can't tell it to download from the radius of the gps22:19
bakaratdammit :p22:19
lcukor do they get their own instance of memory data and its just code thats shared22:19
RST38hRoadMap doesn't work very well22:19
RST38hI still haven't downloaded ANY maps with it =)22:19
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bakaratRST38h, heh :p22:19
RST38hIt says "downloading" and hangs there22:19
bakaratRST38h, does it work if you do have maps?22:19
bakaratic :|22:20
RST38hNo idea22:20
RST38hI don't have maps22:20
bakaratwel currently i've put my nokia as close to the window as it goes, hoping to get a gps signal long enough for the damn thing to realize where i am :p22:20
ShadowJKa-gprs helps22:21
RST38ha-gps22:21
ShadowJKyes22:21
bakarathaven't gotten round yet to reflashing, if i don't have to, i won't for the forseeable future22:22
bakarat(need it too much atm, can't risk running into unforseen problems or having to reinstall all my software or something like that :D)22:22
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RST38hDr.Dobbs kaput!22:32
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johnxI really hope archival of websites gets more serious or the early 21st century is going to be a big blank spot in history 100 years from now...22:35
Stskeepsi think we would rant to erradicate tubgirl and such from the history books.. :P22:35
RST38hbig flashy colorful spot filled with prozac and penis extension ads22:36
RST38hNo way you eradicate the tubgirl22:36
johnxStskeeps, OTOH, I do want the opportunity to rick-roll someone 100 years from now...22:36
RST38hShe is part of history now!22:36
RST38h"Erotic rites of XXI century internet users" section22:37
johnx"it seems like we've found some sort of important religious document, and I've constructed an emulation environment to run it..." "never gonna give you up never gonna..."22:37
RST38hIs tubgirl going to be equivalent to the scrolls of Necronomicon? =)22:38
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qwerty12_N800goatse ftw22:38
bakaratyup, damn mapgetter for roadmap does not work :(22:40
bakaratgiven the name i guess rdm is a specific protocol?22:41
bakaratum22:41
bakaratformat22:41
bakarat*22:41
pupnik_predictions for the year of the first N800 emulator?22:42
RST38huses openstreetmap22:42
johnxpupnik_, 200822:42
RST38hjust screw it, I kept trying and then gave up22:42
qwerty12_N800pupnik_, it's already been done22:42
RST38hpupnik: already exists22:42
pupnik_oh22:42
pupnik_i am doubtful22:42
Stskeepsqemu svn head22:43
GeneralAntillespupnik_, hrw's been working on one for a while.22:43
pupnik_oh that actually got running22:44
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pupnik_maemo-image.qemuflash22:44
pupnik_ah i see qwerty12_N800 was involved22:45
qwerty12_N800pupnik_, no no22:45
qwerty12_N800i've just used it successfully :)22:45
bakaratRST38h, if it is osm format, is it not possible to download from osm and upload to nokia?22:45
qwerty12_N800bakarat, can't you try running roadmap on a computer and getting the maps from there?22:46
RST38hbakarat: no idea, why do it? the program obviously does not work22:47
bakaratqwerty12_N800, not sure if it would make a difference? the nokia has no connectivity problems22:47
bakaratRST38h, well maybe the program would work with maps? :|22:47
bakaratand i _need_ offline routing :p22:48
qwerty12_N800bakarat, I'm pretty sure the maemo port is pretty old npw..22:48
GeneralAntillesThe buy a Wayfinder subscription or a dedicated GPS22:48
qwerty12_N800s/npw/now/22:48
infobotqwerty12_N800 meant: bakarat, I'm pretty sure the maemo port is pretty old now..22:48
GeneralAntilless/The/Then/22:48
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Then buy a Wayfinder subscription or a dedicated GPS22:48
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ToYOgP9f9U22:49
RST38hbakarat: I have really low expectations for Roadmap22:50
RST38hbakarat: If it can't even download maps, the chances of it working are pretty low22:51
r2d2rogersStskeeps: finally getting the files for the mer imager targets and platforms..22:51
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: alright22:51
r2d2rogersStskeeps: getting modded xorg.conf and should be good on trac.tspre.org in my home22:52
Stskeepsta - seen it now, will mess more with it later22:54
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: k may have more there later22:56
Stskeepsi hope the nitdroid on 770 kernel work will feed off some to mer-770 too22:57
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r2d2rogersthat would be nice22:58
r2d2rogersI still need to play with the wireless driver patches22:58
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Stskeepsevening b-man22:59
b-manhello, Stskeeps22:59
Stskeepsb-man: new v0.5 image at22:59
Stskeepshttp://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.5.tar.gz22:59
* w00t passes Stskeeps beer22:59
Stskeepsw00t: mm. i wouldnt mind getting horridly drunk atm.22:59
w00tbeer > #maemo.23:00
w00tthat is all.23:00
Stskeepsw00t: people combined those at the summit last year ;)23:00
b-man@Stskeeps: lol x1000023:00
w00t:-)23:00
Stskeepsb-man: you use the dpkg-deb method to make the installer btw?23:00
b-manyes23:01
Stskeepsk23:01
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VulcanisHrm, does anyone here have an eeepc?23:01
VulcanisI know its completely offtopic, but I need a replacement for my lappy23:02
* b-man sucks at dpkg-buildpackage ;)23:02
Stskeepsb-man: it really isnt that bad once you get to know dh_make :P23:02
pupnik_Vulcanis: i have a netbook.  it sits around waiting for a girl to use.23:03
b-mani've spent hours on some packages that would take minutes for others ;p23:03
VulcanisPupnik: I'd be switching from a lenovo x60, though23:03
* pupnik_ splutters 23:03
johnxb-man, no one starts off fast. :)23:03
Vulcanisso the only downgrade would be the processor, going from a 1.8c2d23:03
pupnik_you want battery life or what Vulcanis23:03
Vulcanisand lightness23:04
b-manheh :)23:04
VulcanisI'd use it for taking notes and doing school stuff, mostly23:04
Vulcanissome movies and music, perhaps.23:04
Stskeepsb-man: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer0.5/ screenshots from earlier btw23:04
pupnik_i'm disappointed with them.  not comfy enough to be a notebook, not small enough to be pocketable23:04
Vulcaniswell23:04
pupnik_and a 9-cell pack adds weight and bulk.  3 cell giving me 1.5 hours use23:05
Vulcanishow do you mean not comfy enough? You mean on the lap? Or for typing23:05
b-man@Stskeeps; sweet!23:05
pupnik_typing23:05
Stskeeps(and these were just apt-get install stuff)23:05
Stskeepsroxterm & abiword23:05
VulcanisAh.  Well, I guess I'll have to go to a store and see how it feels, then...23:05
pupnik_hey hows abiword doing Stskeeps23:05
johnxVulcanis, have you tried typing on one yet? you're going from one of the best keyboards to one of the worst23:05
VulcanisWould you know of any other comparable 'netbooks' that have a better keyboard?23:06
Stskeepspupnik_: on mer it was a matter of apt-get install abiword :P23:06
VulcanisJohnx: Yeah, I knew that anything but ibm would be bad, just not entirely sure /how bad/23:06
johnxVulcanis, HP mini-note 2133/2140 or mini 1000/70023:06
VulcanisAre those all HP?23:06
johnxyeah23:06
johnxsome just released at CES today :)23:06
VulcanisThanks, I'll look into it23:06
VulcanisThey're more expensive, though. But is the keyboard good?23:07
Stskeeps, - this is really how maemo should be - easy to get hildonized apps (user/) and an abundant repository of software that just needs to be hildonized to act well on the tablets23:07
pupnik_Stskeeps: sounds good.23:07
BULLEVulcanis: go for one of the BIG netbooks, with 10" screen, eg asus, msi or similar, those have ok keyboards aswell, big enough to use mho23:07
pupnik_but that's what IT has been about since 200523:07
johnxVulcanis, yeah, really nice keyboard. they're bigger than other netbooks and so there's enough room for a full sized enter and right shift23:07
pupnik_'just hildonize it'23:07
Stskeepsyeah, except life isn't that easy23:07
Stskeepsusually hildonizing is 1% of it :P23:08
Vulcaniser, what are the asus ones called?23:08
VulcanisI just remember Wind is the MSI one23:08
johnxVulcanis, eeePC23:08
VulcanisOh, I thought I already said that >.<23:08
VulcanisDamnit, BULLE23:09
VulcanisAnyway, thanks guys23:09
johnxalso: ibm keyboards > other notebooks > hp mini > other 10" netbooks > smaller netbooks > fujitsu fmv / kojinsha23:09
VulcanisI lurved my x6023:09
Vulcanisbut it is dying23:09
Vulcanisand I don't really want to go for their new ultraportable23:09
BULLEreanimate !23:09
VulcanisI guess I could go for the x6123:09
Vulcanisbut thats already really, really old23:10
johnxVulcanis, the x200 looks great to me, but it is a tad expensive if you haven't got spare cash23:10
Vulcaniswell23:10
BULLEVulcanis: so you might get it for a good price23:10
Vulcanisit would carry into college, John.  So I could probably live two months or so without a laptop23:10
Vulcanisand then use money from birthday + anything else + student discount (if lenovo does that type of thing, I know apple does)23:11
BULLEVulcanis: or just buy a cheaper laptop, and go out partying like crazy and have a good time23:11
Vulcanisexcept I'm not really into that *sadface*23:11
Vulcanissadly, I'd probably get more entertainment from the laptop23:12
BULLEVulcanis: practice make perfect!23:12
VulcanisNot really.  I hate most people.23:12
BULLEthats because you are not drunk enough then23:12
johnxI know I'd be happier with an x200 vs any of the netbooks out there23:13
johnxthe weight difference isn't that much and the x200 is a real"desktop replacement" while netbooks ... aren't23:13
Vulcaniswell, the thing is, I'd still have a desktop with me23:14
Vulcanisso... I dunno23:14
Vulcanisbut I'll probably just wait the three months23:14
Vulcanishopefully the harddrive and everything else of this one will hold out until then23:14
johnxis it physically falling apart or just the HD is dying?23:14
* b-man still has'nt given up on the ubuntu/mer keyboard problem...23:15
VulcanisHD is dying, the battery is completely dead, monitor has some brightspots23:15
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Vulcanisreplacing HDD and Battery costs more than a netbook23:15
Vulcanisso...23:15
BULLEVulcanis: yeah23:15
johnxI've been seriously deciding between a used x31/x32 and a netbook actually23:16
Vulcanisgo get an x60 >.>23:16
johnxkind of a price difference :P23:16
Stskeepsb-man: could you do me a favour and upload latest installer to that scp thing?23:16
BULLEjohnx: imho, if you can get used to the keyboard size of a netbook, go for it, but do try it out a bit beforehand23:16
Stskeepsb-man: so i can point innocent victims to it23:16
BULLEjohnx: i have small hands, so i can hapilly use the keyboard on my eee 1000 att full typing speed23:17
johnxBULLE, tried them out plenty. the HP ones are ok. nothing else seemed worth it.23:17
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johnxand an atom really is slower than an old pentium m23:17
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BULLEjohnx: oh, i find both msi wind and eee 1000 keyboards to be just fine for me23:18
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b-manStskeeps: if i can :p To tell you the truth, i don't know how to upload it with ssh  X(23:19
Stskeeps"scp filename username@hostname:~/public_html"23:19
Stskeeps:P23:19
johnxthey're ok...and would be fine occasionally I suppose.23:19
BULLEjohnx: yeah, its nothign you use as your main computer23:19
johnxand I'd be intending to use this a lot23:20
johnxbut a used laptop will come with a HD I can't trust and a dying battery...should really just save for an x20023:20
lcukjohnx, are you onj a laptop now or a dying desktop23:23
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johnxon an old desktop I'd like to repurpose or get rid of23:23
lcukgrab an eee and carry on as if it were a desktop23:23
lcukthen use it as a lappy when needbe23:23
johnxI kind of need a certain amount of CPU power...23:24
lcukput it in performance mode :D23:24
johnximagine something half as fast as that new tablet you just got lcuk23:24
lcuki run it at half as fast anyway, its locked to 798mhz23:24
johnxand you'd be happy with that as a main machine?23:25
lcuknot yet im not, its at my side, its a slate23:25
lcukits running liqbase 24723:25
johnxnah, I'll just keep hauling my desktop around the world for now23:25
lcukyeah23:25
lcukfor what i use this machine for though, the vga out we see from omap3 will replace need to copy files over the network23:26
lcuki hope to god they put the port in23:26
johnxlcuk, they can't if they use an unmodified omap23:27
lcukif i can get basic monitor and keyboard i will b happy :)   really, why not?23:27
lcuktheres videos on youtube from movial showing all this23:27
johnxIIUC, you get one high res output that they hook up to the LCD and one NTSC output to hook up to s-video23:27
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GeneralAntillesWell, the second framebuffer is 640x48023:28
lcukahhh video out != monitor dvi out?23:28
GeneralAntillesSo it could certainly drive VGA or composite23:28
johnxso if you get a beagle you're in good shape, but if you're counting on VGA out from Nokia you're probably out of luck23:29
GeneralAntillesYeah, not gonna happen23:29
lcukoh noes!23:29
GeneralAntillesEven a proprietary port is gonna be too big.23:29
johnxNokia AV port to the rescue :)23:29
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GeneralAntillesThat said, VGA over USB is much more feasible with OMAP3 than OMAP223:29
lcukahhh well, plan b23:29
johnxplan b ?= learn to love ssh23:30
lcukgen, tbh it doesnt matter that much, ive got a headless laptop here that im gonna try with23:30
lcukplan b ^23:30
lcukbbl anyway23:31
zchydemhey! Does anyone know how the hildon desktop translates the "Name"-attribute in the *.desktop files in Human readable form? Does it use gettext or somethign else?23:31
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zchydemhey gnuton23:32
gnutonhey zchydem23:32
zchydemwhat's up?23:32
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gnutonzchydem: That's fine.. I'm trying to understand something more about the finnish taxation system.. O_o23:34
zchydemuh.. The basic guideline is that they will always take more than you want:) I pay apprx. 31% tax from my every salary.. That sucks23:35
pupnik_hello, 31% slave23:36
Stskeeps31% only? liberal bastards :P23:36
Stskeeps38% + 10% here23:36
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zchydemStskeeps: where do you live?23:36
Stskeeps.dk23:36
zchydemNow I know to avoid moving there:)23:37
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Stskeepswell on the other hand we get a lot of free stuff :P23:37
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, what's the default font for mer btw?23:38
zchydemyou mean like health care etc?23:38
RST38h13%23:38
Stskeepshealthcare, student support (we dont have to have loans like .fi), etc :P23:38
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gnutonzchydem: I paid about 50% in December O_o and I don't understand why...23:39
* sp3000 has survived without loan in .fi23:39
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* johnx thinks the US lack of national healthcare is basically barbaric23:39
gnutonMy tax card in december was fine...23:40
RST38hjohnx: but hey, US has got the greatest military in the world!23:40
Stskeepswe get about 500 eur per month post-tax in student support if you live away from parents :P23:40
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* qwerty12_N800 <3's nhs23:40
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, "free" :roll:23:40
RST38hjohnx: Ain't you fucking proud? =)23:40
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hehe23:40
GeneralAntillesjohnx, you're insane.23:40
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: there's no free lunch, true, but we get a lot back -for- our taxes :P23:40
gnutonRST38h:  are you happy for that? :P23:40
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, no you don't, you lose a lot then they give you a little back.23:41
RST38hgnuton: Can't you see how happy I am? =)23:41
sp3000Stskeeps: 4 to 5 here fwiw23:41
GeneralAntillesGovernment is almost always less efficient.23:41
johnxGeneralAntilles, I just exercised my access to the national healthcare that I pay into right now. In the US it would have cost 10+ times what it ended up costing here23:41
sp3000efficient at what goal23:41
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, health care would cost a lot less if there were no insurance at all.23:41
gnutonRST38h: :D I can see it! :P23:42
pupnik_that's definitely true GeneralAntilles23:42
RST38hGeneral: I would prefer it to be less efficient about providing me with medical care than about bombing people I do not know in places I have never been to23:42
GeneralAntillesNationalizing health care just degrades quality and increases price overall.23:42
RST38hGeneral: Have you tried? =)23:42
johnxGeneralAntilles, every so often you need serious intervention though, not just a band aid and a pat on the head23:42
GeneralAntillesRST38h, this is a discussion about health care, not about military operations in foreign countries.23:42
* Stskeeps is perfectly happy with nationalized healthcare23:42
sp3000I'll accept that business is likely better incentivized for internal efficiency, but that alone means nothing23:42
Stskeepswe have private hospitals too though23:42
RST38hGeneral: This is the discussion about how your tax dollars are spent23:42
GeneralAntillesRST38h, since when?23:43
RST38hGeneral: Since the beginning I am afraid23:43
* GeneralAntilles goes back to shooting zombies.23:43
GeneralAntillesRed Herrings are awesome.23:43
RST38hgeneral: But anyway, medicare/medicaid level healthcare isn't particularly bad23:43
RST38hNot stellar of course, but acceptable as a basic level23:43
RST38hEspecially instead of above-mentioned military adventures23:44
GeneralAntillesRST38h, your argument seems to be that because I'm against nationalized healthcare, I'm obviously for military spending.23:45
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GeneralAntillesWhich is just silly, and doesn't really deserve to be addressed.23:45
RST38hGeneral: No, it is a bit more subtle than that23:45
RST38hSorry you haven't got it, I must have been more clear23:45
johnxI think his idea goes like "take military funds and put together a national health care system. no tax increase"23:45
RST38hGeneral: The argument is that US is wasting huge amount of tax money for military enterprises it does not really benefit from23:46
RST38hGeneral: So, wasting THAT SAME money on healthcare isn't such a big problem23:46
GeneralAntillesRST38h, my argument is that the government is a giant waste.23:46
GeneralAntillesEnd of story.23:46
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RST38hIt is, but there is waste and then there is waste23:46
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johnxand mine goes like: not everyone will have $50,000 just sitting around waiting for an emergency, so it's nice to have a healthcare plan to cover you23:46
GeneralAntillesThey'll have a lot more when government isn't sucking money out of them like a leech23:47
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RST38hAs to your libertarian ideas, just wait until you get a bit older and need to fix your health23:47
RST38hOr end up without housing.23:47
johnxGeneralAntilles, would you really have $50,000 in savings *right now* with lower taxes?23:47
GeneralAntillesjohnx, if insurance weren't creating such a huge overhead on the healthcare system, it wouldn't cost $50k23:48
johnxRST38h, heh...don't need to get much older. turns out there are fun problems to get when you're young too :)23:48
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johnxGeneralAntilles, depends on the problem, doesn't it?23:48
RST38hjohnx: Yea, God provides, but Darwin has His own ways to reveal Himself =)23:48
GeneralAntillesAnyway, silly discussion that I'm not going to continue.23:48
johnxGeneralAntilles, a couple months ago I would have agreed with you, :)23:49
RST38hUS insurance system is all private, no government there ;)23:49
johnxRST38h, and modern medicine is annoying as hell, sometimes uncomfortable, but is really nice to have23:49
RST38hPutting more government into healthcare will essentially create competition for insurance industry and make it level its costs23:49
RST38hjohnx: Not sure this did not apply to pre-modern medicine :)23:50
johnxRST38h, nah, I'm happy to exist in the present and not even 10 years ago :)23:52
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johnxanyways, giant bash scripts are a pain...time to get some sleep23:59

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