| jakemaheu | dammit, qwerty12_N800 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| jakemaheu | close | 00:00 |
| jakemaheu | the user gets to partition the card | 00:00 |
| jakemaheu | but other than that, yeah | 00:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe :P | 00:00 |
| jakemaheu | you get first dibs | 00:00 |
| jakemaheu | i'm just gonna test it now | 00:00 |
| jakemaheu | do you have an n800? | 00:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | i've already followed your guide and partitioned my card :) | 00:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yep | 00:00 |
| jakemaheu | nice | 00:00 |
| jakemaheu | you can try the script then | 00:01 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | it's just sitting there atm, i need a uclibc built against 2.6.28 headers | 00:01 |
| jakemaheu | ah | 00:02 |
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| Vulcanis | what is everyone's obsession with Android? | 00:04 |
| Vulcanis | It can't do much, as far as I can tell | 00:04 |
| jakemaheu | it's orgasmic | 00:04 |
| Vulcanis | except for the snappy browser | 00:04 |
| jakemaheu | ly smooth | 00:04 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | it's just something fresh to use after being in Maemo | 00:05 |
| jakemaheu | it's a nice ui, too | 00:05 |
| jakemaheu | and for being an early version, pretty good | 00:05 |
| jakemaheu | script is now extracting | 00:06 |
| jakemaheu | to the newly created and /mnt mounted partition | 00:06 |
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| jakemaheu | vulcanis likes xkcd | 00:06 |
| b-man | i think just about enything can run on our tablets i some way or another... | 00:10 |
| b-man | edit; in -damn keyboard | 00:11 |
| woglinde | re | 00:12 |
| b-man | so, what do you think would be cool to see on our tablets that we don't allrety have? | 00:13 |
| woglinde | dont know | 00:14 |
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| woglinde | I think I have seen all cool stuff | 00:14 |
| Vulcanis | liar | 00:14 |
| woglinde | maybee | 00:14 |
| woglinde | a car driving game | 00:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | a interactive guide using open gl es that shows how to grow ganja | 00:15 |
| b-man | hardware rendered OpenGL - but that's not possible | 00:15 |
| b-man | DosEmu | 00:15 |
| woglinde | ???? | 00:16 |
| woglinde | dosemu runs | 00:16 |
| b-man | that's dosbox | 00:16 |
| b-man | qemu | 00:16 |
| woglinde | yeah and where is the problem? | 00:16 |
| b-man | dosbox is a little limited to me... | 00:17 |
| woglinde | realtimings? | 00:17 |
| b-man | gimp - but that's way too large | 00:19 |
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| b-man | easy debian could fix that... | 00:20 |
| * alterego creates a release branch :) | 00:20 | |
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| b-man | an application manager that alows you to install multiple apps simotaneusly - like synaptic... | 00:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | alterego, release to extras-devel quick! ve must knock python off a high ranking spot :p | 00:22 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | b-man, sure! apt-get install | 00:23 |
| b-man | oh yah - duh, stupid me :p | 00:23 |
| aquatix | :) | 00:24 |
| qwerty12_N800 | synaptic compiles + runs in diablo but the interface looks like shit in Maemo | 00:24 |
| b-man | is it usable though? | 00:24 |
| aquatix | i think resolution might be cramped | 00:25 |
| qwerty12_N800 | dunno, it showed my packages but I quit after noticing properly how it looked | 00:25 |
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| aquatix | :) | 00:25 |
| * aquatix uses apt for doing more advanced stuff | 00:25 | |
| b-man | lol | 00:25 |
| aquatix | and the regular appman for normal stuff | 00:25 |
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| b-man | i'm thinking of cloning maemo to my sd, removing hildon, and see if i can get kde4 to run on it - i have doubts that it would work though... | 00:28 |
| b-man | all sorts of dependency issues... | 00:29 |
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| b-man | welcome back qwerty | 00:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | thanks b-man | 00:31 |
| b-man | :) | 00:31 |
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| b-man | qwerty12_N800; do you think it could be possible to compile dosemu for maemo? | 00:37 |
| b-man | i'm shure it would require a fuew code changes - since it was originaly ment for i386... | 00:38 |
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| * alterego contemplates what he needs to support his projects .. | 00:39 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | b-man, possibly, it doesn't seem too complicated. but you raise a good point about i386, dunno if it emulates a processor too | 00:40 |
| alterego | A blog, bug tracking, public subversion access | 00:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | alterego, do you have a temp web page up re ruby-maemo? I'd love to see more on it | 00:41 |
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| alterego | qwerty12_N800: I'll stick the old one up in a few minutes if you want to see that. | 00:41 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | yes, please (if it is no problem) | 00:42 |
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| b-man | it looks like, according to wikipedia, that dosemu is just a compatibility layer - not an absolute emulator; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOSEMU | 00:43 |
| b-man | Qemu looks like a possibility thought - it imulates a cpu; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QEMU | 00:45 |
| alterego | kqemu is cooler :) | 00:47 |
| alterego | And kvm is even cooler :D | 00:47 |
| Veggen | kvm is quite ok. I use it for some things. | 00:49 |
| Veggen | actually, I use it to run a 32-bits Linux for 32-bit-specific things on my 64-bit Ubuntu ;P | 00:49 |
| b-man | The problem might be that qemu/kqemu/kvm sorce code might use some x86 spacific binary calls and that could cause problems if we were to port thease to armel. | 00:52 |
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| alterego | qwerty12_N800: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/vhosts/maemo.rubyx.co.uk/public/ | 00:56 |
| alterego | qwerty12_N800: it used to look prettier, but I can't be bothered to properly configure apache to render it correctly :) | 00:56 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | alterego, Thanks! | 00:57 |
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| alterego | Getting flash backs looking at this content. I remember how much time and effort it took me to get desktop plugin support .. | 01:00 |
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| * alterego hugs svn | 01:12 | |
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| alterego | Okay prepares to build ruby-maemo 1.0 rc1 :) | 01:25 |
| alterego | The moment everyone has been waiting for ^_^ | 01:25 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | :) | 01:25 |
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| alterego | My sources are clean, the new svn repo is nicely organised. I've rebuilt my build scripts and fixed a lot of issues with the debianization. Two days well spend :) | 01:26 |
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| towo | Does anyone know if the SU-8W has, like, page up or down | 01:42 |
| towo | ? | 01:42 |
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| lcuk | towo, http://npossibilidades.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/su-8w_312x3121.jpg | 01:44 |
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| towo | I can't possibly open that right now. :) | 01:45 |
| lcuk | why | 01:46 |
| towo | I just have it in front of me right now and can't scroll up. | 01:46 |
| towo | using the built in x terminal. | 01:46 |
| lcuk | you make these problems for yourself then :) it appears as though it doesnt have explicit pageup/down keys but that doesnt mean it wont support mappings | 01:47 |
| towo | Yeah, but remapping only the bluetooth HID is a serious PITA.. Tried to find a dvorak mapping without obliterating the internal kezboard... Didn't really work. | 01:48 |
| lcuk | like i said, you make these problems yourself :D bbiab | 01:49 |
| towo | pffft. | 01:51 |
| sin18 | i cloned my tablet(n800/diablo 43.7) to boot from SD as well as set up advanced; while it does show boot messages initially it still shows the splash screen (hands extending pic) | 01:57 |
| sin18 | advanced booting* | 01:57 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | yes, on computer too i stop seeing messages when xserver is started (unless i manually switch back) | 01:59 |
| sin18 | qwerty12_N800 : i was under the impression that was more of a splash screen; for example on fc10 it can simple be turn off in the grub menu and i was thinking that among other things the advanced booting would switch off this splash screen as well | 02:01 |
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| Vulcanis | no | 02:04 |
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| Vulcanis | you have to actually edit the pictures | 02:04 |
| Vulcanis | its a nokia thing, as far as I know | 02:05 |
| sin18 | Vulcanis : but it cannot be disabled ? | 02:06 |
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| GAN8001 | lol . . . allnameswereout added "WebKit as default engine in MicroB for Fremantle" as a Fremantle Star | 02:18 |
| GAN8001 | I can't even begin to count the number of things wrong with that. | 02:18 |
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| alterego | Heh | 02:39 |
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| dick-richardson | with the built-in mapping software on the n810, can you load a saved route (from google earth for example)? | 02:49 |
| alterego | Nope | 02:52 |
| alterego | Would be neat though .. | 02:52 |
| dick-richardson | can wayfinder use the downloaded maps from the built-in app? | 02:53 |
| GAN8001 | Be nice having active routing in Maemo Mapper with HSPA | 02:53 |
| alterego | You're on an N8001?!? | 02:54 |
| alterego | :) | 02:54 |
| dick-richardson | n810 | 02:54 |
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| alterego | I was talking to GAN8001 ;) | 02:57 |
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| alterego | whoops. | 02:58 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ooh. cold. | 02:59 |
| Vulcanis | I still think we should petition nokia to make an n805 out of spare parts | 03:00 |
| Vulcanis | 2 SD/MMC slots | 03:00 |
| Vulcanis | a keyboard | 03:00 |
| Vulcanis | and no gps | 03:00 |
| alterego | Heh | 03:00 |
| alterego | And an N95 screen? ^_^ | 03:00 |
| alterego | I was playing a racing car game on my N95 the other day whilst it was plugged into my TV. I had a vision, where new phones could be portable games consoles and I could use a wiimote with it. | 03:01 |
| alterego | If the new tablet has TV-Out then I can realise that dream .. | 03:01 |
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| * alterego starts working on a maemo5 port of libcwiid | 03:03 | |
| alterego | With Ruby bindings ;) | 03:03 |
| pupnik | I bet Muaad`dib would have trouble seeing into the future right now | 03:07 |
| alterego | Hah | 03:07 |
| alterego | I'm actually suprised I got a reference to Dune .. | 03:07 |
| pupnik | at least my crystal ball is pretty foggy | 03:08 |
| pupnik | and dark | 03:08 |
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| alterego | Tomorrow I'm going to attempt to upload to extras. | 03:12 |
| alterego | Though I think I'll need an invite am I right? | 03:12 |
| pupnik | dunno | 03:12 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ~upload-extras | 03:12 |
| infobot | hmm... upload-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras | 03:12 |
| alterego | Ooo, I'm reading a different doc that says pretty much the same thing :) | 03:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe, go for the wiki page :p. dunno if the wiki page has been changed but you don't need to sign your packages anymore (thank god (or x-fade)) :) | 03:15 |
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| alterego | Is the autobuilder software available to download? Would be nice to have a local version to test everything with. | 03:16 |
| lcuk | no sorry, it couldnt get itself through to extras. for some reason it kept failing :D | 03:17 |
| alterego | Hahah | 03:17 |
| alterego | recursive builds? ^_^ | 03:17 |
| qwerty12_N800 | the source is on garage somewhere but it's, for all intents, a "lite" scratchbox that wants your Build-Depends filled in | 03:18 |
| alterego | Yeah, just wondering how verbose my depends have to be. | 03:18 |
| lcuk | assume linux and RMS are both stood behind your back whilst building | 03:19 |
| lcuk | linus ^ | 03:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Should be ok, I just usually run dpkg-genbuilddeps -rfakeroot and pick out the -dev packages | 03:19 |
| alterego | I have packages that have build deps on another package I have created :) | 03:20 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Have fun :P | 03:21 |
| alterego | Presumable I have to submit them in order and wait for them to get built? Or will it happen automagically? | 03:21 |
| TrueJournals | w00t! Figured out how to chroot deblet :-P | 03:21 |
| TrueJournals | Now I just need to get an ACTUAL keyboard... | 03:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | alterego, you'll have to do it in order, any extra dependencies are apt-getted from extras-devel repo | 03:22 |
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| alterego | Hmm, | 03:22 |
| alterego | extras-devel is for immature software correct? | 03:22 |
| alterego | Then packages get promoted to 'extras' right? | 03:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yep | 03:23 |
| alterego | But '-dev' packages are only in extras-devel? | 03:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | It's up to you what is promoted, -dev packages and all | 03:23 |
| alterego | Ah, okay. | 03:24 |
| alterego | Well, as long as my sections are filled in correct it should all go through to 'extras' imo. | 03:24 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | You'll have to ensure your packages build for i386 too, the autobuilder is picky about that | 03:25 |
| alterego | I've ensured they do ;) | 03:26 |
| alterego | I have my _own_ auto builder .. Of sorts. | 03:26 |
| qwerty12_N800 | the maemo policy is a good read too | 03:27 |
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| alterego | link? | 03:27 |
| alterego | Oh, found it. | 03:27 |
| alterego | Should be a good bedtime read ... :) | 03:27 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Hehe :) | 03:28 |
| merkuralex | Does anyone know if there are downloadable schematics to make a tilt stick | 03:28 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | merkuralex, not 100% sure but http://www.harbaum.org/till/tiltstick/index.shtml seems to have one | 03:31 |
| merkuralex | Yea im looking at that doesn't seem to have a parts list... | 03:32 |
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| GAN8001 | alterego, Quicksilver G4. ;) | 03:36 |
| alterego | That's interesting, I'm trying to use a project name, it says it's taken .. But it's not .. | 03:36 |
| alterego | Actually, it's not interesting. It's a pain. | 03:37 |
| merkuralex | Restar the browser and clear cache? | 03:37 |
| merkuralex | Restart* | 03:37 |
| alterego | No, it has nothing to do with the web browser. This is garage.maemo.org weirdness. | 03:37 |
| merkuralex | Try again later :D | 03:38 |
| alterego | I seriously doubt that'll have any effect. | 03:38 |
| GAN8001 | alterego, http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/ | 03:38 |
| GAN8001 | If you have issues with Extras or Garage, be sure to harass X-Fade. ;) | 03:38 |
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| alterego | "the packages I want to upload are:" god, I really have to fill all of the names out? :D | 03:42 |
| GAN8001 | alterego, it's just X-Fade | 03:42 |
| alterego | I like the idea of "Request Invitation" sounds nice and rude ^_^ | 03:42 |
| GAN8001 | So send the request then harass him about it later if you feel the need. ;) | 03:42 |
| alterego | There should be a "Gatecrash Extras" option :D | 03:42 |
| GAN8001 | That's where we all steal qwerty12's keys and upload trojans. | 03:43 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Hehe :P. Or we can do a qole :p | 03:44 |
| * qwerty12_N800 ducks. Squeak? | 03:45 | |
| GAN8001 | He's gonna read the log. :P | 03:45 |
| * qwerty12_N800 runs over the border & gets a new identity | 03:46 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | och, that only works if you aren't surrounded by sea :p | 03:46 |
| alterego | Oh, cool. So I don't have to mess around with creating a garage "project" to use the auto-builder. | 03:47 |
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| gentooer | anyone using their tablet with a2dp bluetooth? | 06:21 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, i may well be able to fit that webkit thing, seems libicu didnt take up as much room as first expected... | 06:31 |
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| t_s_o | the speed diff between webkit and microb makes me wonder... | 06:47 |
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| GAN800 | t_s_o, MicroB is old | 07:05 |
| GAN800 | js performance is shit | 07:06 |
| GAN800 | Reevaluate after it's updated to a recent FF | 07:06 |
| t_s_o | if that ever happens on my N800 :P | 07:06 |
| gentooer | will MicroB ever be updated to FF3? | 07:07 |
| GAN800 | That'll be the easy port. :) | 07:07 |
| GAN800 | gentooer, it is FF3. | 07:07 |
| t_s_o | its just based of some alpha, iirc... | 07:08 |
| GAN800 | It's just FF3a1 | 07:08 |
| gentooer | oh yeah those were slow | 07:08 |
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| GAN800 | Who wants to bet we'll never see the lists again? | 07:11 |
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| zakkm | XD | 07:13 |
| zakkm | they should update it | 07:13 |
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| t_s_o | lists? | 07:36 |
| GAN800 | Mailing lists are borked. | 07:37 |
| t_s_o | ah, had not noticed | 07:41 |
| zakkm | do any of you use Fennec Alpha 2? | 07:43 |
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| jakemaheu | i think i've finished the script | 08:01 |
| zakkm | jakemaheu: heard of the new release of nitdroid coming out | 08:07 |
| jakemaheu | same herw | 08:07 |
| jakemaheu | s/herw/here/ | 08:07 |
| infobot | jakemaheu meant: same here | 08:07 |
| zakkm | looks so nice ;p | 08:07 |
| jakemaheu | the install should stay the same, hopefully | 08:08 |
| zakkm | going to have a bootloader :P | 08:08 |
| zakkm | for maemo and nitdroid | 08:08 |
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| jakemaheu | yay | 08:12 |
| jakemaheu | i hope | 08:12 |
| jakemaheu | i've spent like a week writing the script | 08:13 |
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| disco_stu | zakkm, hi | 08:28 |
| zakkm | heyyy | 08:28 |
| zakkm | looking to buy a bluetooth keyboard ;p | 08:28 |
| zakkm | see if i can find a cheap one ;p | 08:28 |
| disco_stu | i use a wireless one, but it is not very portable | 08:29 |
| disco_stu | i've seen those rubber kb that van be folded.. looks good | 08:31 |
| disco_stu | s/van/can/g | 08:32 |
| infobot | disco_stu meant: i've seen those rubber kb that can be folded.. looks good | 08:32 |
| disco_stu | loggitech dinovo is nice, but very expensive.. | 08:33 |
| disco_stu | bluetooth ones can be used with cellphones wich is a plus | 08:34 |
| disco_stu | zakkm, did you install the last ssu? | 08:37 |
| zakkm | nope | 08:37 |
| zakkm | should i of? | 08:37 |
| disco_stu | why u didnt? | 08:37 |
| zakkm | dont own a cellphone | 08:37 |
| disco_stu | everybody owns a cellphone these days, you are a lucky one who doesnt get disturbed | 08:38 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:35 |
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| merkuralex | Has anyone thought to try TibiaME on the n810 with debian installed? It is java isn't it? | 09:49 |
| * RST38h moos | 09:49 | |
| RST38h | it is not java | 09:50 |
| RST38h | native S60 app, very slow too | 09:50 |
| merkuralex | Ok thanks for the info.... | 09:53 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 11:30 |
| qwerty12 | hi Stskeeps | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | trying to make a sane way to do "first boot" scripts, heh | 11:35 |
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| Stskeeps | thinking /etc/firstboot.d or something | 11:36 |
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| Stskeeps | and -one- initscript in runlevel S | 11:36 |
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| Stskeeps | sane / not sane? :> | 11:48 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, does anyone have a modified startpage with a wikipedia search box below the google one? | 11:59 |
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| Stskeeps | morning lcuk | 12:38 |
| lcuk | urgleburgle | 12:39 |
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| * lcuk hates sunday mornings | 12:40 | |
| Stskeeps | mm | 12:41 |
| * Stskeeps is waiting for parents in law to come back and for them to leave for his gf's brother | 12:42 | |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, are they on a tour | 12:43 |
| RST38h | lcuq | 12:44 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: sortof i guess | 12:44 |
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| Stskeeps | i just really want some real holiday atm :P | 12:45 |
| lcuk | so where would you rather be :D hot n sunny or cold n icy | 12:46 |
| t_s_o | quick guess, anywhere private with the gf... | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | what t_s_o said | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:47 |
| RST38h | port xbmc! | 12:48 |
| lcuk | need ogl | 12:48 |
| RST38h | oh | 12:49 |
| qwerty12 | Just buy an xbox, not like they're expensive now :P | 12:49 |
| RST38h | Jack said of her decision to buy a gun. "What if somebody wants to break in and take our possessions or our cans of food? A fear of the unknown is a terrible thing." | 12:49 |
| lcuk | i believe its the portability aspect | 12:49 |
| RST38h | qwerty: What if it melts down and burns the place? A fear of the unknown is a terrible thing. | 12:50 |
| * RST38h grins | 12:50 | |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, but that could be true of any electrical item :P | 12:50 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Well, XBox has a certain history... | 12:51 |
| RST38h | A District woman said she was so fearful when her husband brought home a new flat-screen TV that she made him chop the box into little pieces on trash day, so no passersby would be tempted into her home. | 12:53 |
| RST38h | Hilarious | 12:53 |
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| Stskeeps | <3 fear | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:54 |
| RST38h | Watts recently decided to do all of her holiday shopping online after she saw GameStop employees at the Pentagon City mall offering to escort customers who bought electronics to their cars. | 12:54 |
| * RST38h wonders if he has to start worrying about marauders stealing his cans of food and buy a slignshot | 12:56 | |
| qwerty12 | pellet gun | 12:56 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: the economic crisis that bad in US? :P | 12:57 |
| Vulcanis | hunting rifle | 12:57 |
| RST38h | Sts: Reading this article, yes | 12:57 |
| RST38h | Sts: In reality, probably no | 12:58 |
| suihkulokki | http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/office-products/ref=pd_dp_ts_op_1 | 12:59 |
| suihkulokki | nice bestseller :P | 12:59 |
| qwerty12 | The word retards comes to mind | 12:59 |
| Stskeeps | sarah palin with a gun, heh | 13:00 |
| RST38h | what have you expected? a broomstick? =) | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | yes, and cooking utils | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:01 |
| RST38h | she would actually do good hosting a cooking TV program | 13:02 |
| suihkulokki | "here's howto boil MOOSE stew!" | 13:02 |
| RST38h | "How to hunt ans skin a squirrel" | 13:02 |
| RST38h | More of the same: http://exiledonline.com/america-home-of-the-free-land-of-the-armed/ | 13:03 |
| * Stskeeps ponders how many % of the news material in danish newspapers are picked up on digg/reddit and such.. | 13:17 | |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i have a tar.gz mer image if you're bored at some point | 13:20 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, possibly.. | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | grr, still tslib problems | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.tar.gz | 13:23 |
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| qwerty12 | This runs off the memory card right? May as well try it out, I've got nitdroid on the 2nd partition doing nothing | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 13:24 |
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| Stskeeps | needs bootmenu.d support and a usual deblet curse of an .item | 13:25 |
| *** qwerty12_N800 has joined #maemo | 13:25 | |
| Stskeeps | well, or just _LINUXRC :P | 13:25 |
| qwerty12 | Sure, I've got your bootmenu in black :p | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | true | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | there's some hold down bug or something with the touchscreen, think johnx was looking into it | 13:25 |
| qwerty12 | I could probably live without a right click for a while | 13:26 |
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| Stskeeps | and this is the usual bare image, just base system :P | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | with screenshot tool and mer rescue menu to get console and such | 13:28 |
| qwerty12 | No wifi? :/ | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | not yet, didn't get around to it | 13:28 |
| qwerty12 | I can do a basic usbnet connection but if it comes to bridging, I'm SOL | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | ubuntu box? use johnx's usbnet instructions | 13:29 |
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| Stskeeps | it has usb support in rescue menu so :P | 13:29 |
| qwerty12 | Ok, it doesn't assume I'm using the latest kernel by any chance? :/ | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | and in /etc/network/interfaces | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | it just assumes you have some kind of kernel i think | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | it assumes you have 2.6.21 i think | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | cos of the framebuffer modules | 13:30 |
| qwerty12 | Oh, on the computer side | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | ah, no | 13:30 |
| qwerty12 | cool, I'm still using an old kernel because I need ndiswrapper to work & I can't be arsed to compile my own :/ | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian#Release_Notes_for_beta3 | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | are the ones in /etc/network/interfaces i use | 13:31 |
| qwerty12 | framebuffer modules are no problem, I've got them with a 2.6.21 kernel I compiled recently | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | k | 13:31 |
| * alterego yawns | 13:32 | |
| alterego | Good morning folks. | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | morning | 13:32 |
| qwerty12 | Morning | 13:32 |
| RST38h | moorning | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: didn't add wifi yet as i didn't know how we could deal with firmware and such :P but the packages you made should make it a lot easier | 13:33 |
| qwerty12 | Heh, glad they (hopefully) plan to help :P | 13:33 |
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| Stskeeps | think i'll just build tablet-wireless :P | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | and then nm-applet should be quite easy | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | (i hate nm but we dont have any other nice choices atm) | 13:40 |
| qwerty12 | Hopefully, it runs a lot better on the tablet than it does on my desktop... | 13:40 |
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| Stskeeps | so-so | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:41 |
| qwerty12 | I ended up using debian pinning so I could keep the version from hardy when I upgraded | 13:41 |
| qwerty12 | The new network manager would disconnect me in 60 seconds and make unleash a torrent of swearing upon my computer | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 13:42 |
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| Stskeeps | wifi is probably easily possible through /etc/network/interfaces. | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | installing tablet-wireless and wpasupplicant | 13:54 |
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| Stskeeps | why on f*cking earth does network-manager-gnome depend on libgweather1? | 14:01 |
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| qwerty12 | It only lets you connect if the weather is sunny (which may explain my problems as I live in London...) | 14:02 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 14:03 |
| * RST38h has a better question: Why does every third Linux package appear to depend on the TeX installation? | 14:03 | |
| Stskeeps | in build dependancies or dependancies? | 14:04 |
| RST38h | just dependancies | 14:04 |
| Stskeeps | build dependancies can be explained by stuff like texinfo or something :P | 14:04 |
| Stskeeps | (wtf came up with the abdomination 'info' is anyway?) | 14:04 |
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| Stskeeps | ah. | 14:06 |
| Stskeeps | stallman. | 14:06 |
| Stskeeps | no surprises. | 14:06 |
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| Raho_770 | hi! i have problems with maemo mapper on a nokia 770. is it ok to ask here or is there a specific channel for maemo mapper? | 14:09 |
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| Stskeeps | well this isn't a support channel, but your answer may be answered :P else there's always internettablettalk :) | 14:10 |
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| Stskeeps | wb | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: nokia-n8x0-firmware is a good thing for wifi too :P | 14:10 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Thanks Stskeeps | 14:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, heh, you need to advertise your december tasks more :P | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 14:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | No one has stepped up to do the qemu one :/ | 14:12 |
| Raho_770 | ok i'll have a try~ :-) i reflashed my nokia 770 and installed maemo mapper. now the "bluetooth" radio button in the gps settings is greyed out. is there any package i need that is not listed in the dependencies? | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: yeah, think things will speed up a bit more once we have a sane image to work out from | 14:13 |
| * Stskeeps ponders why mer failed to find firmwar | 14:13 | |
| Stskeeps | e | 14:13 |
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| * qwerty12_N800 <3's unofficial xchat patch for coloured nick list | 14:19 | |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 14:19 |
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| Stskeeps | god, this tslib bug is annoying | 14:30 |
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| sikor_sxe | hello, after a short visit to nitdroid i wanted to reflash the latest diablo on my n800. i started the reflash on linux, but it aborted with "write failed at xxx bytes". my n800 seems seriously bricked now (can't turn it on or off, won't react to anything). is it? | 14:35 |
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| sikor_sxe | when i put the charger in the nokia r&d logo keeps flashing on and off | 14:38 |
| timeless | have you pulled the battery? | 14:38 |
| alterego | Hello timeless long time no see :) | 14:39 |
| timeless | hi | 14:40 |
| timeless | happy new year or something | 14:40 |
| alterego | Not quite ;) | 14:40 |
| timeless | you're going to quible about <200 hours? | 14:40 |
| alterego | yup. | 14:40 |
| timeless | how about "have a happy new year"? | 14:40 |
| alterego | That works. | 14:41 |
| timeless | alright. sold | 14:41 |
| timeless | how about "merry christmas" | 14:41 |
| timeless | or is that also out of bounds? :) | 14:41 |
| alterego | Bit late for that now ;) | 14:41 |
| timeless | merry after christmas shopping? | 14:41 |
| * timeless isn't christian | 14:41 | |
| alterego | Hah, the thought has crossed my mind .. | 14:41 |
| alterego | I'm not sure what to base the new ruby-maemo site on. Whether I should build something from scratch or use a CMS/Wiki/Summit | 14:42 |
| timeless | what do you need in it? | 14:42 |
| timeless | i'm actually quite happy w/ http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/ | 14:43 |
| alterego | Basically a list of the packages and descriptions, I'd like an area for code snippets and examples | 14:43 |
| timeless | which is basically generated by a script i wrote | 14:43 |
| alterego | Yeah, that looks nice. | 14:43 |
| timeless | the css/layout is theirs | 14:43 |
| timeless | much better than the original | 14:44 |
| timeless | but the general way it fills in articles and manages them is mine :) | 14:44 |
| alterego | I think I will roll my own. | 14:44 |
| * timeless ponders teaching mxr about ruby | 14:44 | |
| alterego | Heh | 14:45 |
| sikor_sxe | timeless: yes | 14:45 |
| timeless | "yes"? | 14:45 |
| timeless | oh, that's the battery | 14:45 |
| timeless | right so um | 14:45 |
| timeless | first of all, you brick it at your own risk :) | 14:45 |
| alterego | Heh | 14:45 |
| timeless | i'm sure you read the fine print | 14:45 |
| timeless | second. i'm not an expert, and this is not official technical support | 14:45 |
| timeless | for that, please call nokia cares at... | 14:45 |
| timeless | (what's that number? 1-800-nokia-cares ?) | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | nokia cares? :P scary | 14:46 |
| timeless | but typically for basic stuff, you remove the battery, plug in the usb, start the flasher, insert the battery, knock on wood, pray, sacrifice one or two goats and three chickens | 14:46 |
| *** qwerty12_N800 is now known as n0kia | 14:46 | |
| n0kia | we don't care | 14:46 |
| *** n0kia is now known as qwerty12_N800 | 14:47 | |
| sikor_sxe | i don't put the the battery back in? | 14:47 |
| alterego | Hah | 14:47 |
| timeless | that's covered by 'insert' | 14:47 |
| sikor_sxe | oh | 14:47 |
| sikor_sxe | heh | 14:47 |
| timeless | however if yoy want to do that after you pray | 14:47 |
| timeless | that's probably wiser | 14:47 |
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| sikor_sxe | alrighty | 14:47 |
| timeless | so, are you in .de or .us? | 14:47 |
| timeless | (or somewhere stranger) | 14:48 |
| sikor_sxe | .de | 14:48 |
| `Mace | Stskeeps ? | 14:48 |
| timeless | Germany 0180 501 502 0 Mon - Sat / 9-18 | 14:48 |
| Stskeeps | `Mace: mm? | 14:48 |
| timeless | that's the nokia care number | 14:48 |
| `Mace | i checked out the settings and maxed it out | 14:48 |
| `Mace | just now | 14:48 |
| Stskeeps | `Mace: lemme check | 14:49 |
| `Mace | had it set to 2000MHz ... which should have been 1000x2 | 14:49 |
| timeless | or at least, rather, perhaps, that's /a/ nokia care number | 14:49 |
| `Mace | it's up to 4000 now | 14:49 |
| timeless | and nokia's web ui is ... | 14:49 |
| * timeless sighs and whacks nokia | 14:49 | |
| sikor_sxe | after inserting the battery, should i press home & on? | 14:49 |
| `Mace | see if it works a little better.. if it doesn't then i'll allocate some more mem for you | 14:49 |
| timeless | yeah, sure :) | 14:50 |
| timeless | pray first | 14:50 |
| timeless | pray early, pray often | 14:50 |
| Stskeeps | `Mace: i'll try later, - parents in law in house and leaving soon.. :P | 14:50 |
| sikor_sxe | nothing happens :/ | 14:50 |
| sikor_sxe | screen stays black | 14:50 |
| timeless | nothing? | 14:50 |
| timeless | um.... | 14:50 |
| timeless | don't suppose you have a battery compatible device :) | 14:51 |
| `Mace | Stskeeps - right now you're avging 17MHz for some reason ;) probably because it sucked up the resources from being idle | 14:51 |
| qwerty12_N800 | sikor_sxe, you sure the battery wasn't near-empty before flashing? | 14:51 |
| timeless | http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/153/ | 14:52 |
| timeless | that's my comment on batteries and flashing :) | 14:52 |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 14:52 | |
| * timeless should go shopping | 14:52 | |
| `Mace | Stskeeps - let me know if it didn't help. i may need to shut it down and give you more mem and double check all the settings and give it a higher priority | 14:52 |
| sikor_sxe | qwerty12_N800: i doubt that. but it might be, android does not support battery | 14:53 |
| sikor_sxe | now that | 14:53 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, heh | 14:53 |
| sikor_sxe | 's interesting | 14:53 |
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| sikor_sxe | i put in the ac and a green console output appears | 14:53 |
| sikor_sxe | kernel version etc | 14:53 |
| timeless | it isn't published because it's missing art and a proofreader | 14:53 |
| qwerty12_N800 | sikor_sxe, yeah, happens in rd mode. sounds like it may be booting | 14:54 |
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| sikor_sxe | it was in rd mode before | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | `Mace: you can just restart if needed, no server processes | 14:54 |
| sikor_sxe | for nitdroid | 14:54 |
| * timeless loads zemanta | 14:55 | |
| `Mace | Stskeeps - i will if it's still going slow for you ;) | 14:55 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, re proofreading, here's one: s/you might get even more shots But you might also die./you might get even more shots. But you might also die./ :P | 14:55 |
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| `Mace | just try it out a bit more... let me know if it still sucks... i'll shut it down and amp it up | 14:55 |
| timeless | thanks | 14:55 |
| sikor_sxe | timeless: ok, i guess that means the device is bricked | 14:56 |
| timeless | sikor: nokia care :) | 14:56 |
| sikor_sxe | *sigh* at least one gadget less to occupy my time | 14:56 |
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| timeless | qwerty: fwiw | 14:57 |
| timeless | http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/153/index.txt | 14:57 |
| sikor_sxe | pheew i don't think it'll be worth the hazzle. i guess it involves sending stuff around? | 14:57 |
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| timeless | is the master | 14:57 |
| * RST38h has got his hands onto 5800 | 14:57 | |
| timeless | which explains the missing punctuation | 14:57 |
| RST38h | So far so good | 14:57 |
| * timeless tries to decide what punctuation to use | 14:57 | |
| * timeless thinks a dash is better | 14:57 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | :) | 14:57 |
| * timeless grumbles | 14:58 | |
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| Stskeeps | sikor_sxe: n800 or n810? | 14:59 |
| Stskeeps | sikor_sxe: try the following.. turn off tablet, connect to computer using usb, start flasher, put in charger | 15:00 |
| alterego | ruby-maemo is now 19 packages | 15:02 |
| sikor_sxe | well | 15:02 |
| sikor_sxe | i left the n800 connected to the ac for a while | 15:03 |
| sikor_sxe | and tried timeless' instructions | 15:03 |
| timeless | qwerty: reload the html page? | 15:03 |
| sikor_sxe | this time the flasher went through 100% | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | oh, good | 15:03 |
| timeless | :) | 15:03 |
| sikor_sxe | great, a boot screen | 15:03 |
| sikor_sxe | :) | 15:04 |
| sikor_sxe | thanks timeless, qwerty12_N800 and Stskeeps | 15:04 |
| alterego | :) | 15:04 |
| qwerty12_N800 | sikor_sxe, looks like your time will be occupied again :) | 15:05 |
| sikor_sxe | yeah, pity | 15:05 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, nice :D :) | 15:05 |
| timeless | qwerty: which gun location do you prefer, top or bottom | 15:05 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, I like it at the top | 15:06 |
| timeless | ok | 15:06 |
| * timeless hunts for a flashing icon | 15:06 | |
| sikor_sxe | timeless: doesn't the battery charge if it's not flashed correctly? | 15:06 |
| timeless | um | 15:07 |
| timeless | if you manager to totally hose it, you can be in really bad shape :) | 15:07 |
| timeless | there's no guarantee you can't fry the code responsible for battery control | 15:07 |
| timeless | (charing, capping, stopping, discharging ...) | 15:08 |
| timeless | everyone tries to prevent letting users get devices into a state where they might e.g. explode | 15:08 |
| timeless | but if you're very clever, you might manage it | 15:08 |
| timeless | -... don't play russian roulette | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | if qwerty12_N800 hasn't exploded his yet, it'd require either a really smart person, .. or a complete and utter idiot | 15:08 |
| timeless | heh | 15:09 |
| sikor_sxe | you're sure there's code involved in charging the battery? | 15:09 |
| timeless | absolutely | 15:09 |
| *** sp3001 has quit IRC | 15:09 | |
| * RST38h wonders why Nokia Software Updater takes 24MB just in archived form | 15:09 | |
| timeless | (spoken w/ engineers about it) | 15:09 |
| RST38h | Just WHAT exactly is there? | 15:09 |
| timeless | rst: the gui one? | 15:09 |
| timeless | w/ all the pictures? | 15:09 |
| timeless | and localizations? :) | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: pictures of happy children | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | .. probably | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | or was that ubuntu? | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:10 |
| timeless | actually | 15:10 |
| timeless | Nokia Internet Tablet Software Update Wizard | 15:10 |
| timeless | is 2mb on disk | 15:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, ever see the do it with ubuntu t-shirts? :P | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: not recently, no | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Sts: The UI is ugly like hell, not many pictures there | 15:11 |
| timeless | rst: which thing is 24mb? | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Sts: So whatever pedophilic softporn is there, the application is not showing it | 15:11 |
| *** na2i has quit IRC | 15:12 | |
| * RST38h suspects that this thing is quietly installing another Java Runtime | 15:12 | |
| timeless | there's also perhaps 3mb in a cable driver | 15:12 |
| timeless | not sure if that came w/ the flasher | 15:12 |
| timeless | 1/2mb in a flashing cable driver | 15:12 |
| timeless | 2mb in "tablet update" | 15:13 |
| sikor_sxe | is it just me, or is fennec alpha 2 still far from usable? | 15:13 |
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| *** qwerty12_N800 is now known as qwerty12_N800_ | 15:13 | |
| timeless | sikor: how many bugs have you filed? | 15:13 |
| * timeless has only filed one | 15:13 | |
| alterego | It is still alpha sikor_sxe | 15:13 |
| RST38h | Shit, the installed version is 36MB and it refuses to uninstall | 15:14 |
| sikor_sxe | not that's it's buggy or crashes a lot, but it's so unresponsive i doubt it'll go anywhere | 15:14 |
| * timeless needs to file a second | 15:14 | |
| RST38h | And the new one refuses to install unless the previous one is uninstalled | 15:14 |
| RST38h | Perfect, just perfect | 15:14 |
| timeless | sikor: well... responsiveness is an interesting problem | 15:14 |
| timeless | we have half plans to try to fix that | 15:14 |
| timeless | but they're um... complicated | 15:14 |
| timeless | esp by the fact that microb has shown the frameworks aren't very friendly to that stuff | 15:14 |
| alterego | It is alpha ... | 15:15 |
| timeless | (sure, some of the bugs were introduced by the microb engineers, but i think some of them aren't solvable and are the fault of the components we use) | 15:15 |
| timeless | alterego: i don't think i'd expect great responsiveness from 10 | 15:15 |
| timeless | err 1.0 | 15:15 |
| alterego | Yeah, that one was more pointed at "I need to uninstall the previous version" comment :) | 15:16 |
| timeless | is this on the tablet? | 15:16 |
| timeless | because that's darn depressing :) | 15:16 |
| sikor_sxe | i just wonder why maemo was choosen as a reference platform | 15:16 |
| timeless | anyone have a decent picture of a flashing thing? | 15:16 |
| timeless | sikor: what would you prefer? | 15:16 |
| timeless | windows mobile? | 15:16 |
| timeless | symbian? | 15:17 |
| timeless | iphone? | 15:17 |
| timeless | zaurus? | 15:17 |
| timeless | newton? | 15:17 |
| sikor_sxe | heh | 15:17 |
| timeless | palm? | 15:17 |
| timeless | there aren't many choices | 15:17 |
| timeless | while there is a port to BeOS and the newer palms are somewhat related to beos | 15:17 |
| timeless | in practice, i think the system requirements aren't there :) | 15:17 |
| timeless | forget newton for obvious reasons | 15:17 |
| * RST38h googles for Nokia Software Updater and discovers the bottomless pits of Nokia hate | 15:18 | |
| timeless | forget iphone for licensing reasons | 15:18 |
| timeless | rst: heh | 15:18 |
| sikor_sxe | it seems to be too high-end for the hardware | 15:18 |
| sikor_sxe | same thing with canola | 15:18 |
| timeless | rst: well, all mine did was eat my saved connections | 15:18 |
| RST38h | All right, let us do it the hard way | 15:18 |
| timeless | symbian is out because there's no finnished port | 15:18 |
| timeless | that leaves windows mobile and maemo | 15:18 |
| timeless | realistically, windows mobile doesn't have the right hacker mentality | 15:18 |
| timeless | and there aren't many people using gecko there | 15:19 |
| sikor_sxe | all the eye-candy isn't worth much if it's choppy | 15:19 |
| timeless | whereas microb on maemo is established w/ hacker clientelle | 15:19 |
| RST38h | REGEDIT TIME! | 15:19 |
| timeless | well.. | 15:19 |
| timeless | the eyecandy isn't eyecandy | 15:19 |
| timeless | it's idea candy | 15:19 |
| timeless | the idea is to reinvent how things are done | 15:19 |
| timeless | the precise details and eyecandy can be ironed out later | 15:19 |
| timeless | alphas are for adding features, staging ideas, and collecting feedback | 15:20 |
| timeless | polish comes much later | 15:20 |
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| sikor_sxe | will maemo 5 stay api compatible | 15:20 |
| sikor_sxe | ? | 15:20 |
| * timeless shrugs | 15:21 | |
| timeless | check qgil's announcements? | 15:21 |
| timeless | you shouldn't need to ask a non authoritative channel when there are publications about :) | 15:21 |
| sikor_sxe | i just wondered wether maybe fennec is developed with a later hardware revision in mind | 15:22 |
| timeless | the mozilla engineers are buying/collecting n800/n810s | 15:22 |
| timeless | they have no access to other hardware | 15:22 |
| timeless | although they are talking about getting beagleboards or similar | 15:23 |
| timeless | they do at least for the time being expect to ship to the n800/n810s | 15:23 |
| timeless | since again, there aren't many viable targets atm | 15:23 |
| timeless | and they need to target /something/ | 15:23 |
| timeless | they need something w/ a reasonable number of deployed devices | 15:23 |
| timeless | so even if newer hardware appeared, it wouldn't be useful | 15:23 |
| timeless | because it'd take time for people to buy it | 15:23 |
| sikor_sxe | i developed some gameboy homebrew stuff once, all in an emulator :) | 15:24 |
| timeless | qwerty: i can't find a better flasher picture than: http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:qsFGZS_iIaLj5M:http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/770Flasher.png | 15:24 |
| timeless | surely there's a windows flasher image online? | 15:24 |
| * timeless sighs | 15:26 | |
| timeless | it looks like i told firefox never to load images from nokiausa.com :) | 15:26 |
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| timeless | hrm, the nokia software updater (for the n810) is ~3mb | 15:28 |
| timeless | who was complaining about ~24mb? | 15:28 |
| timeless | the phone thing does gobs of things | 15:28 |
| *** qwerty12_N800_ is now known as qwerty12_N800 | 15:28 | |
| timeless | ~20 different features or ~100 different models | 15:28 |
| lcuk | http://flickr.com/photos/yorkie/2370080030/ mmmmmmm | 15:29 |
| timeless | (my pcsuite is ~50mb) | 15:29 |
| RST38h | "phone thing" does exactly one thing - it downloads and updates firmware. | 15:30 |
| RST38h | why this simple thing requires 24MB of crap is beyond me | 15:30 |
| timeless | hrm, my phone thing is broken | 15:30 |
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| timeless | it's not for end users :) | 15:31 |
| timeless | what version do you have? | 15:31 |
| timeless | mine really is ~2mb | 15:31 |
| timeless | (actually, the last time i tried to use the software updater, i failed and had to resort to using someone else's computer | 15:34 |
| *** qen has joined #maemo | 15:34 | |
| timeless | and iirc the time before that,i also used someone else's computer) | 15:34 |
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| RST38h | hehe, "community open source projects" start finding out they are not community | 15:39 |
| RST38h | First Mozilla, now OpenOffice | 15:39 |
| timeless | rst: url for mozilla? | 15:39 |
| RST38h | Eclipse too, most likely | 15:39 |
| timeless | last i checked mozilla was relatively healthy | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | open office never was healthy | 15:41 |
| * timeless nods | 15:42 | |
| crashanddie | they're just there because there's no competition | 15:42 |
| crashanddie | and everyone hails them as a flag for open source excellence, when really it's just an amalgam of crappy software | 15:42 |
| RST38h | which reminds me that abiword is still not totally usable on Maemo | 15:42 |
| timeless | crashanddie: are you really sure the software is crappy? | 15:43 |
| timeless | from what i've seen, the code isn't that bad, and the docs seem volumous | 15:43 |
| timeless | (which is not atypicaly from sun) | 15:43 |
| timeless | if you want low quality code | 15:45 |
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| timeless | i can point you to every single open source codec | 15:45 |
| * timeless has looked at a couple of late | 15:45 | |
| timeless | or most browser plugins | 15:45 |
| timeless | (open source or closed, i'm not picky) | 15:45 |
| timeless | (although i think the open source ones are probably at least marginally worse) | 15:45 |
| timeless | and there's no point in talking about anything written w/ gtk :) | 15:46 |
| timeless | (or for s60 for that matter) | 15:46 |
| derf | Voluminous documentation doesn't help you much when most of it is wrong. | 15:46 |
| timeless | is that the case for ooo? | 15:47 |
| derf | Well, I don't know about "most", but certainly "a lot". | 15:47 |
| timeless | is that from churn or was it wrong from the gate? | 15:47 |
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| derf | They also have the same features implemented about 18 different times, each with their own bugs, and refuse to refactor anything. | 15:47 |
| derf | timeless: I'll be generous and assume the latter. | 15:48 |
| derf | It's what happens in large projects with lots of documentation. | 15:48 |
| * timeless pokes google chrome w/ a sledgehammer | 15:48 | |
| * timeless shrugs | 15:48 | |
| timeless | ime at least w/ solaris, the documentation is generally fairly close to accurate | 15:48 |
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| timeless | if there's a systemic problem it's usually because the doc geneator is broken, not the docs | 15:49 |
| derf | Yes, well. Solaris is not run like OOo. | 15:49 |
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| timeless | odd | 15:49 |
| derf | My roommate uses OOo automation stuff for his job... he could do a much better job telling you about all of its shortcomings than I could. | 15:50 |
| derf | But I get to hear about them regularly. | 15:50 |
| timeless | nbytes = 0x1578012 | 15:50 |
| * timeless sighs | 15:51 | |
| *** housetier has quit IRC | 15:51 | |
| timeless | someone's complaining that if they try very hard they can use lots of memory | 15:51 |
| timeless | don't ask me why that's remotely interesting | 15:51 |
| derf | Anyway, as an author of two open source codecs, I'll ask you to be specific with your low quality code remark. | 15:52 |
| timeless | (and no, they haven't explained) | 15:52 |
| timeless | derf: url for your code? | 15:52 |
| timeless | i'll give you a list | 15:52 |
| timeless | it should take about 5-10mins | 15:52 |
| timeless | but generally codecs aren't written to handle alloc failure | 15:52 |
| timeless | which isn't acceptable because codecs are almost always run: | 15:52 |
| timeless | a. in process | 15:52 |
| timeless | b. on untrusted data | 15:52 |
| derf | timeless: That's because alloc doesn't generally _handle_ failure correctly. | 15:53 |
| timeless | c. with at least user privileges (i.e. not as nobody) | 15:53 |
| crashanddie | the usability is horrendous | 15:53 |
| crashanddie | thus the software is crap | 15:53 |
| crashanddie | software != code | 15:53 |
| derf | On many OS's, malloc over-commits pages. | 15:53 |
| timeless | derf: well, that's not really true | 15:53 |
| * alterego yawns | 15:53 | |
| derf | And so it doesn't return NULL when you're out of memory, and then it segfaults when you try to use it. | 15:53 |
| timeless | the only os i know of that lies through its teach is linux | 15:53 |
| timeless | osx doesn't | 15:54 |
| timeless | windows doesn't | 15:54 |
| timeless | bsd/solaris don't | 15:54 |
| timeless | qnx doesn't | 15:54 |
| timeless | beos doesn't | 15:54 |
| timeless | and i've run out of memory on all of those | 15:54 |
| timeless | (and os/2 for that matter) | 15:54 |
| timeless | malloc really will return null | 15:54 |
| timeless | in fact, it's trivial to get malloc to return null on linux | 15:54 |
| timeless | (it just doesn't usually happen for "small" allocs) | 15:54 |
| timeless | if you ask for 3.9gb on a 32bit system, the malloc will fail | 15:55 |
| timeless | (return 0) | 15:55 |
| timeless | speaking of which | 15:55 |
| * timeless checks a realloc | 15:55 | |
| derf | Sure... if it can't even make the page table entries, but that's not the point... | 15:55 |
| timeless | nbytes = 0x20c5080 | 15:55 |
| derf | The point is not that it _can_ return NULL, it's that it _can_ return non-NULL, even when it succeeds. | 15:55 |
| derf | *even when it fails | 15:56 |
| timeless | not particularly relevant | 15:56 |
| timeless | you're supposed to handle the cases that are guaranteed to happen | 15:56 |
| timeless | not say "i'm not going to write corect code because sometimes things won't behave correctly" | 15:56 |
| timeless | what kind of lame excuse is that? | 15:56 |
| derf | I'm saying your definition of correctly is wrong. | 15:56 |
| derf | Because it doesn't actually solve the problem you think it's solving. | 15:57 |
| timeless | the problem i want solved is that: | 15:57 |
| timeless | 1. you don't leak | 15:57 |
| timeless | 2. you don't allow arbitrary code execution | 15:57 |
| timeless | (possibly not in that order) | 15:57 |
| timeless | you can't rely on the kernel oom killer to save you from either of those | 15:57 |
| derf | Explain to me how malloc returning NULL leads to arbitrary code execution. | 15:57 |
| timeless | there are some very cool PoCs wrt flash of late which do that | 15:58 |
| timeless | if you don't check the alloc | 15:58 |
| timeless | and you do an array deref instead of a simple null deref | 15:58 |
| timeless | and it's a write | 15:58 |
| timeless | then you can end up setting up for something quite interesting | 15:58 |
| timeless | anyway, the last adobe flash exploit was basically that | 15:58 |
| timeless | there are some cooler ones too | 15:58 |
| timeless | but anyway | 15:58 |
| derf | Yes, I saw it. That's a substantially more complicated setup. | 15:58 |
| derf | And not _just_ caused by the malloc failure. | 15:59 |
| timeless | nbytes = 0x27edfca | 15:59 |
| timeless | oh, sure, it's not 'just' | 15:59 |
| timeless | but it was one of the bits | 15:59 |
| timeless | and most codecs are worse than flash | 15:59 |
| timeless | not better | 15:59 |
| derf | But that's like saying, "Well, you use array references. That can lead to arbitrary code execution, so let's get rid of all of them." | 15:59 |
| timeless | i'm not saying that | 15:59 |
| timeless | i'm saying write correct code | 15:59 |
| derf | I'm saying, and have said, that "correct" does not mean what you want it to mean. | 16:00 |
| timeless | and don't cop out because on linux sometimes you'll be killed by the kernel because it got caught w/ its pants down | 16:00 |
| timeless | your code should not crash <period> | 16:00 |
| *** danilocesar has quit IRC | 16:00 | |
| timeless | if someone wants to kill it, that's fine | 16:00 |
| timeless | that's a very simple definition of correct | 16:00 |
| timeless | and you should live with it. | 16:00 |
| timeless | and you should live by it | 16:00 |
| timeless | and that's all. | 16:00 |
| * timeless prepares /ignore | 16:00 | |
| derf | If your goal is really not to crash period, checking malloc returns is in sufficient. You'll need a signal handler. And what the heck you think you can usefully do once _that_ trips, I'll be interested to hear. | 16:01 |
| derf | *insufficient | 16:01 |
| timeless | no | 16:01 |
| timeless | signal handlers don't work | 16:01 |
| timeless | they generally lead to exploits actually | 16:01 |
| RST38h | WOnderful! Now the Software Updater says that there is a newer version installed and STILL refuses to install | 16:01 |
| derf | I agree, they're fairly useless. | 16:01 |
| derf | But those are the tools you've got. | 16:02 |
| timeless | about the only safe thing a signal handler can do is kill(9) | 16:02 |
| RST38h | Nokia should just fire the whole team =( | 16:02 |
| timeless | especially for various linux flavors where signal dispatch was to a random thread :) | 16:02 |
| timeless | or something similarly amusing | 16:02 |
| timeless | i'm curious, can you name a case where you really need a signal handler to not crash? | 16:02 |
| timeless | ignoring the oom killer killing you | 16:02 |
| timeless | and ignoring the fact that writing correct code takes effort | 16:03 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, tried the windows installer clean up tool? also, if you don't have pc suite installed, the pc suite cleanup tool helped | 16:03 |
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| timeless | where do you strictly speaking *need* a signal handler? | 16:03 |
| timeless | array bounds checking can be done | 16:03 |
| timeless | so can alloc checking | 16:03 |
| timeless | and so can checking division | 16:03 |
| timeless | the case of libraries getting unloaded or people misusing atexit | 16:03 |
| timeless | are distinct problems (or rather, they're simply bugs in other libraries) | 16:04 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Is there such a thing? | 16:04 |
| * timeless curses atk-something-something | 16:04 | |
| derf | I told you, you malloc pages, it makes page table entries, but doesn't actually give you pages, and then you try to use them, and you segfault. If you want to try to "ignore" away the whole problem, that's fine. | 16:04 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Well, I have just done my own "cleanup" by deleting all references to Software Installer and PC Connectivity Solution from the registery | 16:04 |
| timeless | that's a bug in the linux kernel | 16:04 |
| *** eichi has quit IRC | 16:05 | |
| RST38h | Currently running registry cleanup | 16:05 |
| timeless | it doesn't happen on the other kernels | 16:05 |
| RST38h | (the real question is why am I supposed to do all this?) | 16:05 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, I did that 3 times to install phoenix... | 16:05 |
| derf | I think it's a bug in your machine. You obviously haven't installed enough RAM. | 16:05 |
| timeless | and yes, if you want to deal w/ that part of the kernel, you can replace libc w/ a libc which forceallocs w/ a signal handler | 16:05 |
| derf | So I'm going to "ignore" your part of the problem. | 16:05 |
| timeless | derf: shrug, i have 4g of ram and 30 or so g of vm | 16:05 |
| RST38h | qwerty: holyfreakingshit | 16:05 |
| derf | I mean, one of the big arguments, to me, for not bother to check malloc returns, is so that people _don't_ blindly assume that just because you checked to make sure that something wasn't NULL, everything is hunky-dory. | 16:06 |
| timeless | kinda lame | 16:06 |
| timeless | if you need to ensure stuff gets to disk, then you need to do that | 16:06 |
| timeless | and probably periodically w/ an fsync | 16:06 |
| timeless | the system can power_off() arbitrarilly | 16:07 |
| timeless | or the user can kill-9 you arbitrarilly | 16:07 |
| timeless | those are both legal and can happen whenever | 16:07 |
| timeless | the system failing to actually give you the memory it promimsed (and then kill-9'ing you) is no different | 16:07 |
| crashanddie_ | kill -9 has never been part of the use cases of any program | 16:07 |
| crashanddie_ | and if it is, it's because the designer/programmer has way too much time on his hands | 16:07 |
| crashanddie_ | the whole point of kill -9 is that it stops EVERYTHING | 16:08 |
| timeless | crashanddie: well, not quite true | 16:08 |
| crashanddie_ | thus not surprisingly also doesn't allow IO operations to finish graciously | 16:08 |
| timeless | file descriptors that go away because they're unlink()ed | 16:08 |
| derf | File descriptors don't go away because they're unlink()ed in Unix. | 16:08 |
| timeless | one coudl almost make a program that could tolerate it | 16:08 |
| timeless | derf: w/ 0 handles left in memory + 0 ref count on disk? | 16:09 |
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| *** crashanddie_ is now known as crashanddie | 16:09 | |
| timeless | ignoring some very strange stuff, they typically do | 16:09 |
| derf | timeless: A "file descriptor" _is_ a handle left in memory. | 16:09 |
| timeless | (shared memory and the broken linux descriptor ...) | 16:09 |
| timeless | derf: kill -9 solves that file descriptor | 16:09 |
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| timeless | sorry... pick the correct terminology if you really need to | 16:10 |
| RST38h | qwerty: It seems to have helped | 16:10 |
| timeless | but if you make a file on disk, and unlink it, but keep a file handle to it | 16:10 |
| derf | Anyway, I don't even know what the gekk you're talking about now. It certainly isn't overcommitting pages. | 16:10 |
| timeless | it isn't quite dead until your app dies | 16:10 |
| timeless | kill -9 will resolve the last handle and the file will die | 16:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, :) | 16:10 |
| crashanddie | I don't see how that is a problem | 16:10 |
| timeless | it's a digression wrt how someone could handle kill -9 ) | 16:11 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Thanks! | 16:11 |
| RST38h | the haptic feedback on 5800 is weird | 16:11 |
| timeless | anyway... the point is that, sure, overcommit happens on linux because linux is broken | 16:11 |
| RST38h | feels more like something is rattling inside the phone every time you touch it =) | 16:11 |
| crashanddie | anything not written to disk will be lost when the program crashes/computer shuts down... Now there's a discovery | 16:11 |
| timeless | but you still need to handle the cases where overcommit doesn't happen | 16:11 |
| timeless | crashanddie: heh | 16:11 |
| timeless | btw, for people interested in banks, i've got a great one for you: | 16:12 |
| timeless | https://www.apnaloan.com/ | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | lol? | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | Invalid certificate, and bank recommendations from IRC... | 16:12 |
| timeless | not invalid, self signed :) | 16:12 |
| timeless | who wouldn't trust a self signed bank? :) | 16:13 |
| crashanddie | lol | 16:13 |
| timeless | case | 16:13 |
| *** na2i has quit IRC | 16:13 | |
| derf | Handling it doesn't make your code any "safer", but it does lead people to think it has when it hasn't. | 16:13 |
| timeless | oops, wrong window | 16:13 |
| crashanddie | indian bank? lol | 16:13 |
| derf | But okay, we now know where we both stand on the issue. | 16:13 |
| timeless | crashsanddie: oh, one of the indian banks had an "nformation technology" OU iirc | 16:14 |
| timeless | we liked that | 16:14 |
| derf | So you've named one thing that causes "low quality code". | 16:14 |
| derf | So, what else you got? | 16:14 |
| timeless | derf: that's pretty much all i care about | 16:14 |
| timeless | those are easy to spot,, and generally they're wrong | 16:14 |
| derf | Okay, so you were blowing smoke like I thought. | 16:14 |
| timeless | it's not smoke. there are real fires | 16:14 |
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| derf | There are. Your "solution" won't solve them. | 16:15 |
| timeless | ? | 16:15 |
| derf | Checking malloc is insufficient to achieve your stated goals. | 16:15 |
| timeless | the goal is not crash | 16:15 |
| derf | Right. | 16:15 |
| timeless | being kill -9'd is not within the defintion of 'crash' | 16:15 |
| timeless | sure there are other ways to write sloppy code | 16:16 |
| derf | Running out of pages is not being kill -9'd. | 16:16 |
| timeless | and those other ways that result in crashes are bugs | 16:16 |
| timeless | accessing a page that the system can't provide ... | 16:16 |
| derf | Though now that I see you somehow have conflated the two, I can understand why you went off on the rest of that random tangent. | 16:16 |
| * timeless is confused | 16:17 | |
| timeless | running out of pages is something you mentioned | 16:17 |
| derf | I can tell. | 16:17 |
| timeless | if a process has allocated 2g - 1k of memory on a 32bit system w/ 2g userspace | 16:17 |
| timeless | and tries to allocate 1m of memory, sure it's exhausted pages | 16:17 |
| timeless | and sure it'll get null back | 16:17 |
| timeless | but i wasn't talking about exhausting pages | 16:17 |
| timeless | that was something you introduced | 16:17 |
| derf | Neither was I. | 16:18 |
| * timeless shrugs | 16:18 | |
| crashanddie | this one has it as well | 16:18 |
| crashanddie | lol... only one subject, no subjectaltname field, no iPAddress field, nothing | 16:18 |
| crashanddie | it's like a 14yo tried his hands at PKI | 16:18 |
| derf | I'm not talking about failing to create the page table entries. | 16:18 |
| crashanddie | lol... PKCS#1 | 16:18 |
| crashanddie | ~ping | 16:18 |
| infobot | ~pong | 16:18 |
| derf | I'm saying it makes the page table entries just fine and hands you back a pointer. | 16:18 |
| timeless | withi no backing store from the kernel, no? | 16:18 |
| timeless | (linux overcommit) | 16:19 |
| derf | And then when you _reference_ one of the pages, it tries to actually go and find some RAM to back that page table entry, and fails, and trips a segfault. | 16:19 |
| crashanddie | how about we just go to another conversation subject | 16:19 |
| derf | crashanddie: This is what I was trying to do. | 16:19 |
| * timeless frowns | 16:19 | |
| timeless | last i checked that results in the kernel trying to make a matching backing store | 16:19 |
| timeless | and failing that resorts to kill -9 | 16:19 |
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| timeless | crashanddie, well, would you trust: https://www.nationalbank.co.nz/ :) | 16:20 |
| timeless | wtf | 16:21 |
| * timeless kicks verisign | 16:21 | |
| crashanddie | timeless, nope | 16:22 |
| timeless | crashanddie: it gets more amusing | 16:22 |
| timeless | try visiting https:<realhostname> | 16:22 |
| timeless | (err https://... | 16:22 |
| sp3000 | heh | 16:23 |
| crashanddie | they redirect to the http version? | 16:23 |
| timeless | of the original server | 16:23 |
| timeless | not the one that had a valid cert | 16:23 |
| sp3000 | the "log in" button actually goes to the right thing | 16:23 |
| timeless | yeah, that's cheating | 16:24 |
| * timeless is staring at that page right now | 16:24 | |
| sp3000 | where did https://www.thelongthing come from? | 16:24 |
| * timeless is trying to decide which part of verisign to phone | 16:24 | |
| timeless | sp3000: it's the logical choice given the http host | 16:24 |
| timeless | i'm doing: google: "bank" + <randomword> | 16:24 |
| timeless | then changing urls from http: to https: | 16:24 |
| timeless | and watching the results w/ amusement | 16:25 |
| crashanddie | sp3000, good practise would encourage you to have certificates for all the publicly accessible websites | 16:25 |
| timeless | crashanddie: not just certificates, but valid, anchored, trusted, and non redirecting | 16:25 |
| timeless | preferably w/ all http sites immediately redirecting to https equivalents | 16:25 |
| crashanddie | or, for the admin's ease of use, one certificate that covers all the different addresses and IPs | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | not necessarily, https is not needed when displaying public bank information | 16:26 |
| timeless | um | 16:26 |
| * timeless coughs | 16:26 | |
| timeless | if you visited the url http://www.nationalbank.co.nz/ | 16:26 |
| timeless | but you were in a net cafe | 16:26 |
| timeless | and it had a login link | 16:26 |
| timeless | which sent you to some https site | 16:27 |
| timeless | which wasn't www.nationalbank.co.nz | 16:27 |
| timeless | would you be happy? | 16:27 |
| timeless | would you be safe? | 16:27 |
| crashanddie | which is why people should check the certificate | 16:27 |
| sp3000 | what, like to mbmz? :) | 16:27 |
| timeless | against what? | 16:27 |
| sp3000 | er, nbnz | 16:27 |
| crashanddie | the name | 16:27 |
| timeless | what name? | 16:27 |
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| timeless | the stupid bank's cert isn't EV | 16:27 |
| timeless | it's DV | 16:27 |
| timeless | although verisign for reasons beyond my comprehension claims it's IV | 16:27 |
| timeless | whatever the heck IV is | 16:27 |
| crashanddie | timeless, show me a certificate you have the private key of that has www.ntlbk.co.nz or whatever the name is, and that is signed by verisign | 16:28 |
| RST38h | Perfect^2: Nokia supplies software update utility that does not support 5800 | 16:28 |
| timeless | crashanddie: i don't need to | 16:28 |
| timeless | i could get www.dsnfs.co.nz | 16:28 |
| timeless | as long as the http thing linked to it and looked right | 16:28 |
| timeless | why would you be the wiser? | 16:28 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, looks like you need phoenix too :) | 16:29 |
| RST38h | what is phoenix? | 16:29 |
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| crashanddie | timeless, because I'm a PKI professional and actually take note of all the certificates I allow/deny on my machine? ;) | 16:29 |
| timeless | what rst38h asked | 16:29 |
| timeless | crashanddie: and you are a representative sample of what population? | 16:29 |
| crashanddie | timeless, the one in my room | 16:29 |
| timeless | oh good | 16:30 |
| timeless | that doesn't help the rest of us | 16:30 |
| timeless | i mean seriously | 16:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, nokia flasher tool that nokia use in service centers. it's been cracked many times, | 16:30 |
| RST38h | qwerty: An you know the funny thing? | 16:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Enlighten me :) | 16:30 |
| timeless | is it easier to use? :) | 16:30 |
| RST38h | qwerty: nokia.ru lets me download software update utility that is 15MB instead of 25MB | 16:30 |
| timeless | or does it run linux? | 16:30 |
| timeless | rst38: how many locales? | 16:31 |
| RST38h | qwerty: gonna see how it is different | 16:31 |
| * timeless still doesn't know what's in that | 16:31 | |
| crashanddie | timeless, I think it's just that a lot of website designs prevent the use of https in a correct manner. | 16:31 |
| RST38h | Says ENGLISH | 16:31 |
| timeless | my updater is really ~4mb | 16:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, heh :/ | 16:31 |
| timeless | so i really wonder what the other 20mb are :) | 16:31 |
| sp3000 | meh, just use ota updates :) | 16:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, windows only, way more complex :) | 16:31 |
| crashanddie | timeless, you should not have to enable https to see the opening hours of a bank, but when as you pointed out, the login link is on the home page, there is a security risk. I'd like to see website designs where the two are quite different | 16:32 |
| timeless | crashanddie: fwiw, in my survey i've only seen a couple of different bank uis | 16:32 |
| timeless | and they're all pretty bad | 16:32 |
| crashanddie | tell me about it | 16:32 |
| timeless | the problem w/ the open hours bit | 16:32 |
| crashanddie | timeless, that's where OTPs get handy ;) | 16:32 |
| timeless | is that i could use it to setup a fake branch too | 16:32 |
| * RST38h sarts suspecting what just happened | 16:32 | |
| RST38h | Nokia has got a special update utility for poor US residents that does not support 5800 | 16:33 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, I sart you as well | 16:33 |
| crashanddie | timeless, that's probably pushing it a bit | 16:33 |
| timeless | <s:rst38h> <v:sarts> <o:suspecting what> <*p: just happened> | 16:33 |
| timeless | crashanddie: perhaps | 16:34 |
| timeless | did you read the washtech one about symantec? | 16:34 |
| timeless | a guy had a password sniffer | 16:34 |
| timeless | and needed support | 16:34 |
| timeless | so they had him pay for it by entering his CC info into the web form | 16:34 |
| crashanddie | timeless, nope | 16:34 |
| timeless | ... | 16:34 |
| crashanddie | hahahaha | 16:34 |
| timeless | the alternative is that the bank lists hours of operation + a phone number | 16:35 |
| timeless | and the customer calls the phone number | 16:35 |
| timeless | ... | 16:35 |
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| timeless | these things are all quite doable | 16:35 |
| crashanddie | you could very well impersonate the bank on the phone as well ;) | 16:36 |
| timeless | the number could e.g. be a disposable/stolen phone | 16:36 |
| timeless | right :) | 16:36 |
| timeless | but the point is that if there's an http page | 16:36 |
| crashanddie | challenge response | 16:36 |
| timeless | you can give out an abitrary phone number | 16:36 |
| timeless | and use that | 16:37 |
| crashanddie | dual factor (ssl v3) authentication | 16:37 |
| timeless | http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/12/pc_got_a_virus_consider_gettin.html#comments | 16:37 |
| timeless | is the symantec thing | 16:37 |
| timeless | (scroll to top, sorry about anchor) | 16:37 |
| timeless | well, depends how it's done | 16:37 |
| timeless | if the auth has a time window, then maybe | 16:38 |
| timeless | but what if the customer has never used the phone gateway before? | 16:38 |
| timeless | (if the information is not time limited [time based random number generator]) | 16:38 |
| timeless | (.... then you can MITM it!) | 16:38 |
| alterego | Well, I've setup a blog .. Now what? >_< | 16:38 |
| timeless | http://www.zemanta.com/ | 16:39 |
| timeless | => alterego | 16:39 |
| timeless | it helped me :) | 16:39 |
| timeless | anyway, i understand why people might want http services | 16:39 |
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| timeless | but mostly it's because they can't get their other stuff done right | 16:39 |
| timeless | (caching, session management, state, whatever) | 16:40 |
| crashanddie | Knowing there's an attack on services that allows session highjacking for services that just do authentication through SSL and then revert to HTTP | 16:40 |
| crashanddie | I just feel website owners should learn what is sensible information and what is not | 16:41 |
| timeless | anyway, my view is clearly that banks shouldn't offer any login links from http pages | 16:42 |
| timeless | especially not to servers whose domains don't precisely match the http domain | 16:42 |
| timeless | if the domain differs | 16:42 |
| timeless | it's too easy for someone to get my<domain> as a shadow of <domain> | 16:42 |
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| timeless | and most of the banks i've seen don't use EV | 16:43 |
| timeless | and i don't think i've seen any explain why EV is important | 16:43 |
| crashanddie | timeless, couldn't agree more with that | 16:43 |
| timeless | (not that i want them to) | 16:43 |
| timeless | the last thing we need is http pages explaining why you should care about security | 16:43 |
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| timeless | (because obviously an http equiv could rewrite that text...) | 16:43 |
| crashanddie | or someone on the same network | 16:44 |
| timeless | http://newpeoplesbank.com/index.php | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | or mitm | 16:44 |
| timeless | try clicking 'login' | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | or whatever attack is all the rage these days | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | ~ping | 16:46 |
| infobot | ~pong | 16:46 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | ~smoke | 16:47 |
| timeless | ~fire | 16:47 |
| infobot | Bender : Light a fire for a man and he's warm for a night. Light a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life... | 16:47 |
| crashanddie | timeless, looks like there identity vault is down | 16:47 |
| timeless | whatever that is :( | 16:47 |
| crashanddie | identity vault == directory (edirectory, active directory, ldap, whatever) that holds the information about their users/clients | 16:48 |
| timeless | ah | 16:48 |
| timeless | nbytes = 0x5a42058 | 16:48 |
| * timeless sighs | 16:48 | |
| crashanddie | anyway | 16:49 |
| crashanddie | I'm out | 16:49 |
| timeless | have a good week | 16:49 |
| crashanddie | almost 4PM, good time to wake up | 16:49 |
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| sp3000 | zemanta should have a reverse feature where you give it pictures and it writes your content for you | 16:50 |
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| RST38h | ~curse NSU | 17:14 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, NSU ! | 17:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Heh, i remember instaling NSU on a friend's computer. the installer wab | 17:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | nted 256mb of ram so i had to use orca on the deb | 17:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | sorry, stylus slipped. | 17:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | s/deb/msi/ | 17:16 |
| RST38h | Looks like Download! only has limited time demos...hehe | 17:17 |
| RST38h | They all say Free too , until you run them | 17:18 |
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| b-man | Stskeeps, you there? | 17:20 |
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| rzr | hi | 17:35 |
| rzr | can you suggest a 3d app to test on 770 ? | 17:36 |
| disco_stu | 3d? | 17:38 |
| disco_stu | nokia tablets lack 3d support | 17:40 |
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| timeless | technically maemo lacks it :) | 17:43 |
| timeless | in theory, someone w/ a couple million dollars could get 3d support w/ the tablet hardware :) | 17:44 |
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| GAN800 | Well, software works. | 17:51 |
| b1ackdeath | has anyone come in to problems when running a program in xterm and then when ur done not able to see you text when typing? | 17:51 |
| denny | yeah | 17:51 |
| denny | 'reset' | 17:51 |
| b1ackdeath | i did | 17:51 |
| denny | (command, fixes messed up fonts and stuff) | 17:51 |
| b1ackdeath | i using qwerty12's osso-xterm upgrade and even clear and reset dosnt work io have totally exit xterm to get it to work again | 17:52 |
| b1ackdeath | like the clear it and run the command but that text dosnt come back tho | 17:53 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: mm? | 17:53 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.tar.gz , test image to test (problem with tpuchscreen tap though) | 17:55 |
| rzr | back | 17:56 |
| rzr | did i miss something ? | 17:56 |
| rzr | can you suggest a 3d app to test on 770 ? | 17:56 |
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| GAN8001 | Hrm, blog posts to write today. | 18:05 |
| lcuk | rzr, gtk uses 3d border effects on their widgets | 18:06 |
| alterego | I just set me up a blog :) | 18:07 |
| rzr | :) | 18:07 |
| alterego | Just playing with it now. I'm not really much of a writer so I'll probably write quite a bit of scht .. | 18:07 |
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| GAN8001 | alterego, Maemo-related? | 18:17 |
| GAN8001 | Hehe, I recognize the scrollbars on nokiausa from Maemo. ;) | 18:18 |
| alterego | Well, it has a maemo section :) | 18:22 |
| GAN8001 | alterego, then: http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/aggregate_your_blog/ ;) | 18:22 |
| alterego | Well, I will. But I need something to write about first :P | 18:24 |
| GAN8001 | Fair enough. | 18:26 |
| GAN8001 | Contract up in February, wonder if Nokia will have any decent, subsidized AT&T phones out by then. | 18:34 |
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| alterego | Heh | 18:34 |
| alterego | I've got an N95, couldn't be any happier with it really :) | 18:34 |
| alterego | Works well with tablet, works well with laptop :D | 18:35 |
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| GAN8001 | I'd do a high-end Nokia phone if I could afford it. | 18:38 |
| GAN8001 | Looks like it'll probably be down to a Samsung something, though. | 18:38 |
| lcuk | traitor | 18:43 |
| GAN8001 | lcuk, to Symbian? | 18:44 |
| GAN8001 | Pfft, I was never loyal to them. :P | 18:44 |
| GAN8001 | I have a Samsung A717 right now. | 18:44 |
| crashanddie | GAN800, 1/ that sounds like a boeing; 2/ traitor to Nokia | 18:46 |
| GAN8001 | crashanddie, what makes you think it isn't a Boeing. ;) | 18:46 |
| * GAN8001 really likes the Boeing 717. | 18:46 | |
| GAN8001 | crashanddie, I don't have any loyalty to Nokia either. :P Just Maemo. | 18:46 |
| lcuk | fits in your pocket, always on communications | 18:46 |
| crashanddie | actually | 18:47 |
| crashanddie | you better have some loyalty towards Nokia | 18:47 |
| crashanddie | seeing in which seat you're seated, bitch | 18:47 |
| GAN8001 | lcuk, I got one of those Mary Poppins® Pants. | 18:47 |
| alterego | O_O | 18:47 |
| * alterego chuckles. | 18:47 | |
| lcuk | :O gan, so you are goatse - keep everything in your back pocket | 18:47 |
| GAN8001 | crashanddie, that doesn't follow. | 18:47 |
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| GAN8001 | Nokia's neither the person who elected me nor the person who created the position. | 18:48 |
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| crashanddie | dude | 18:48 |
| crashanddie | Nokia is a company | 18:48 |
| crashanddie | not a person... | 18:48 |
| crashanddie | tssss | 18:48 |
| GAN8001 | s/person/one/g | 18:49 |
| infobot | GAN8001 meant: Nokia's neither the one who elected me nor the one who created the position. | 18:49 |
| t_s_o | companies have all the rights of a person... | 18:49 |
| alterego | http://blog.rubyx.co.uk/?p=3 - My first blog post :) | 18:49 |
| GAN8001 | Anyway, there's nothing at all that says I should be loyal to Nokia. :P | 18:49 |
| t_s_o | or at least when it comes to markets and property... | 18:49 |
| r0dent | t_s_o: sort of, they can't get married | 18:49 |
| * GAN8001 hits the thumbs over and over. | 18:49 | |
| t_s_o | r0dent: nor vote, but neither is really important to a "being" that can live forever... | 18:50 |
| lcuk | r0dent, thats only because no company has ever tried it | 18:50 |
| woglinde | hi lcuk | 18:50 |
| crashanddie | I've seen companies fuck one another though | 18:50 |
| lcuk | hiya woglinde | 18:50 |
| lcuk | crash we see companies get into bed together all the time | 18:50 |
| GAN8001 | What about mergers? Or a strategic partnership? | 18:50 |
| r0dent | actually, it's part of the law that they can't vote or get married. if someone did try it, it would not stand up in court | 18:50 |
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| crashanddie | r0dent, what law? | 18:51 |
| r0dent | i don't know, rule 34? | 18:51 |
| crashanddie | what country? | 18:51 |
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| alterego | Grrr, why can't it just generate an RSS feed for posts under a certain category! >:( | 18:53 |
| b-man | lol | 18:53 |
| lcuk | r0dent, rule 34 :: microsoft and apple on vibrating massage chairs | 18:53 |
| lcuk | http://www.crainium.net/jdjArchives/Jobs_Gates.jpg | 18:53 |
| b-man | hello Mr.Nokia, how are you doing today?...... LOL | 18:54 |
| lcuk | (ready to get it in :D) | 18:54 |
| woglinde | lol | 18:54 |
| lcuk | on even | 18:54 |
| lcuk | how freudian | 18:54 |
| crashanddie | I was thinking the same | 18:54 |
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| lcuk | what? you wanna get it on with jobs or gates? | 18:55 |
| Mousey | ah ya | 18:55 |
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| lcuk | do i put new liqbase into old liqbase to prove the concept or just carry on working the widget till its viable | 18:56 |
| woglinde | hm? | 18:56 |
| woglinde | whats new? | 18:56 |
| woglinde | all= | 18:56 |
| woglinde | ? | 18:56 |
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| lcuk | ive been reworking the inner sanctum of liqbase | 18:56 |
| woglinde | yeah | 18:56 |
| lcuk | to allow for dyniamic loading and sharing of media and stuff | 18:56 |
| woglinde | sharing? | 18:57 |
| lcuk | yeah between instances | 18:57 |
| woglinde | hm | 18:57 |
| woglinde | wh the heck I should run lcuk twice | 18:57 |
| woglinde | args | 18:57 |
| lcuk | there was no reference tracking on the objects so if 500 sketches used a single image i would have needed to load the image 500 times | 18:57 |
| woglinde | liqbase | 18:57 |
| woglinde | ah | 18:57 |
| lcuk | or risk having double frees or bad refs | 18:58 |
| woglinde | so you are doing oo-programming now | 18:58 |
| lcuk | so i reworked everything so theres a core media library where i can ask for and if already loaded it comes from the cache | 18:58 |
| woglinde | yepp thats the way to go | 18:58 |
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| woglinde | hm later I will programm a little bit jni | 18:59 |
| woglinde | for gps thinkies | 18:59 |
| woglinde | args | 18:59 |
| woglinde | thingies | 18:59 |
| lcuk | yeah i knew that from the start | 18:59 |
| crashanddie | you mean you only did that now? | 18:59 |
| crashanddie | How... Disappointing... :D | 18:59 |
| lcuk | only now ive got the tabletpc i might actually consider something which was not viable before | 18:59 |
| lcuk | the tiles have always been like that, but i underestimate how many style objects i would need | 19:00 |
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| bakarat | i've installed scratchbox but i ran into a couple of problems, the armel thingy wouldn't install, only the i386 one | 19:01 |
| bakarat | and it was missing just about all the needed repo's | 19:01 |
| woglinde | bakarat did you read the install faq? | 19:01 |
| bakarat | i've been piecing together the necessary repo's but i still can't get anything working really | 19:01 |
| bakarat | woglinde, parts ye | 19:01 |
| lcuk | bakarat, with the SDK you dont need extra repos or anything | 19:01 |
| bakarat | lcuk, but...nothing is working | 19:02 |
| woglinde | bakarat then follow the install document to the end | 19:02 |
| bakarat | basically i wanted to preview the maemo-mapper (to see how well it functions) before i actually go out and buy me a maemo-based device :> | 19:02 |
| lcuk | then: Scratchbox :: you're doing it wrong | 19:02 |
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| lcuk | how are you gonna do mapping without gps? | 19:02 |
| woglinde | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/4.1.2/INSTALL.txt | 19:02 |
| lcuk | or touch testing without touchscreen | 19:03 |
| woglinde | bakarat the internal gps is not so good | 19:03 |
| lcuk | or speed testing without speed | 19:03 |
| lcuk | lol internal gps on scratchbox is worse | 19:03 |
| woglinde | fir in car use you have to be near a window | 19:03 |
| woglinde | lcuk ah right | 19:03 |
| woglinde | sorry | 19:03 |
| woglinde | locgical error | 19:03 |
| lcuk | dont be :) | 19:03 |
| bakarat | lcuk, well actually, i was hoping to get some functionality without an actual gps receiver atm | 19:03 |
| woglinde | scratchbox dont show you how the gps inside the tablet works | 19:03 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, you'll be able to download maps | 19:03 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, and view them on your screen | 19:04 |
| lcuk | well, i suppose scratchbox gps DOES give an accurate view of the n810 gps | 19:04 |
| bakarat | well maybe i can just ask here without testing it: i am currently looking for a gps device (needs to be able to calculate routes and preferably "say" stuff like "go left") | 19:04 |
| bakarat | i don't really want to buy a tomtom since...well it's only a gps :> | 19:04 |
| woglinde | http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node10.html#SECTION001027000000000000000 | 19:04 |
| bakarat | i thought the nokia n series would be cool | 19:04 |
| bakarat | does maemo-mapper offer a good alternative? | 19:04 |
| lcuk | n810 + additional purchase of wayfinder has worked for us when we need it | 19:05 |
| bakarat | i rather not use wayfinder | 19:05 |
| woglinde | lcuk uh you bought it | 19:05 |
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| lcuk | we have bought 2 monthly licenses for wayfinder in the last 12 months | 19:05 |
| lcuk | i dont need gps to get me to work etc | 19:05 |
| bakarat | how does maemo-mapper stack up against dedicated gps devices? | 19:05 |
| woglinde | lcuk is it working reasoanble? | 19:05 |
| lcuk | works really well woglinde, my missus loves having todd in the car with her \@/ | 19:06 |
| woglinde | bakarat do you need routing? | 19:06 |
| bakarat | woglinde, yes, the primary reason for buying a gps atm | 19:06 |
| ShadowJK_ | maemo mapper seems a bit complicated for navigation | 19:06 |
| lcuk | we wiggle when he says "at the traffic circle" | 19:06 |
| crashanddie | I'd rather use the official Map app than maemo mapper for navigation | 19:06 |
| lcuk | im gonna replace todd with K.I.T.T though | 19:06 |
| crashanddie | hands down | 19:06 |
| woglinde | lcuk lol | 19:07 |
| crashanddie | traffic circle? | 19:07 |
| lcuk | roundabout | 19:07 |
| crashanddie | roundabout? | 19:07 |
| crashanddie | lol | 19:07 |
| lcuk | and cos we are in uk, theres loads of them | 19:07 |
| lcuk | todd is american | 19:07 |
| lcuk | but tracy wont let me change it | 19:07 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, don't come to france | 19:07 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, they invented the fucking roundabout | 19:07 |
| lcuk | no fear there | 19:07 |
| lcuk | balls | 19:08 |
| crashanddie | ping | 19:08 |
| woglinde | roundabout are great | 19:08 |
| bakarat | so guys, is there any open source software that runs well on nokia n810 that is a reasonable alternative to stuff like tomtom? | 19:08 |
| lcuk | wayfinder | 19:08 |
| lcuk | we just said | 19:08 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, no, and there is a good reason for that | 19:08 |
| bakarat | free | 19:08 |
| lcuk | no | 19:08 |
| lcuk | is tomtom free? | 19:08 |
| bakarat | wayfinder licenses costs almost as much as a dedicated gps unit | 19:08 |
| bakarat | hehe | 19:08 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, bollocks | 19:08 |
| lcuk | wayfindeer license cost me so far £18 | 19:08 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, $100 for 3 years of navigation | 19:08 |
| lcuk | for 1 years actual used nav | 19:09 |
| woglinde | at my university is a project for routing based on osm | 19:09 |
| woglinde | but it will be a midlet | 19:09 |
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| crashanddie | yeah, but that's just a project | 19:09 |
| bakarat | but how bad is maemo-mapper at routing? | 19:09 |
| crashanddie | and unless they get huge funding, they access to commercial maps is going to be stupid | 19:09 |
| bakarat | i mean does it basically not work? | 19:09 |
| crashanddie | s/they/their/ | 19:09 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: and unless their get huge funding, they access to commercial maps is going to be stupid | 19:09 |
| woglinde | osm will be better at some point | 19:09 |
| lcuk | bakarat, i believe it uses whichever map repository you configure it to, so if google maps is crap then so is maemo mapper | 19:10 |
| bakarat | lcuk, its routing capabilities are not really bound to the repo it uses right? | 19:10 |
| crashanddie | and that's really what it's all about... Anyone can have a pretty accurate routing application, but what you really need is the commercial background and guts to do all the processing | 19:10 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, the routing capabilities are downloaded from the internet IIRC | 19:10 |
| lcuk | yes, really it is (i believe):: maemo mapper is an image based mapper | 19:10 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, uh...while on the road? :| | 19:10 |
| lcuk | routing requires vectors | 19:10 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, yes | 19:10 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, you have to download the routes beforehand | 19:11 |
| * lcuk loves vectors | 19:11 | |
| bakarat | crashanddie, well internet is not exactly...accessible from mi car atm :> | 19:11 |
| lcuk | or on the road over the wireles | 19:11 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, if you make a wrong turn, you have to connect again and download again | 19:11 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, ye ok, i can live with that | 19:11 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, hmm | 19:11 |
| bakarat | gah | 19:11 |
| lcuk | bakarat, if you want a 100% fulltime purposful GPS unit, go and buy a cheap one from the shop | 19:11 |
| lcuk | dedicated, you will get more pleasure from it | 19:11 |
| crashanddie | agreed | 19:11 |
| lcuk | but if you want an allround machine which is capable of much more besides just mapping, go with nokia :) | 19:12 |
| crashanddie | the GPS is an enabler on the n810, not a selling point | 19:12 |
| trbs | anybody knows how big a gdbm file can become (as used for sources in meamo mapper ?) | 19:12 |
| bakarat | gah | 19:12 |
| lcuk | bakarat, the built in "map" in n810 works without a license and it shows you the same wayfinder maps and highlights places of interest and letts you get to places, but if you NEED the extras of routing and voice overs then you buy a weekly/monthly/yearly subscription | 19:13 |
| bakarat | the voice-overs are not too important | 19:13 |
| bakarat | the routing is | 19:13 |
| lcuk | how often do you NEED directions? | 19:14 |
| bakarat | well i am working as a consultant | 19:14 |
| bakarat | so basically everytime i go to a new customer... :> | 19:14 |
| lcuk | then get a dedicated unit | 19:14 |
| crashanddie | so am I, I don't need a GPS for that | 19:14 |
| lcuk | or pay up | 19:14 |
| bakarat | what exactly is the use of a gps unit if it doesn't show routing? | 19:14 |
| bakarat | i mean, other then "you're here"... what does it do? :| | 19:14 |
| lcuk | for using in other applications | 19:14 |
| woglinde | bakarat track your way | 19:15 |
| lcuk | breadcrumbs | 19:15 |
| GAN8001 | Personally, I use Maemo Mapper to give me access to satellite images while boating and hiking | 19:15 |
| bakarat | btw, the tomtom software has a linux-based version ye? does that run on maemo? | 19:15 |
| GAN8001 | As well as for generating tracks. | 19:15 |
| woglinde | complete openstreetmap | 19:15 |
| crashanddie | find out where your unit is when it's been stolen | 19:15 |
| bakarat | :> | 19:15 |
| GAN8001 | GPS has tons of uses beyond just routing. . . . | 19:15 |
| woglinde | crashanddie bah thats a way to optimistic | 19:15 |
| crashanddie | woglinde, actually it isn't | 19:16 |
| lcuk | bakarat, why are you against offering the developers of wayfinder maps some money to keep you updated? | 19:16 |
| crashanddie | woglinde, I just wish I had programmed this some time ago | 19:16 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, cuz the world is supposed to be freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee | 19:16 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, and people should work for freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee | 19:16 |
| lcuk | no it isnt | 19:16 |
| crashanddie | so that he can work and make moneeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyy | 19:16 |
| lcuk | ahhh, hes got a moneyclip | 19:16 |
| lcuk | and braces | 19:17 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, buy a GPS unit and expense it ffs | 19:17 |
| lcuk | hes the first highly paid consultant ive heard off that cannot put something like this onto a clients bill | 19:17 |
| lcuk | heh | 19:17 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, hehe, will have to ask if i can expense it :> | 19:17 |
| bakarat | i only just started out | 19:17 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, quite frankly, you won't need a GPS unit | 19:18 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, o yes i do :| | 19:18 |
| lcuk | ok, so just starting out, you should be able to take it out of your salary, what is it 35,000 | 19:18 |
| lcuk | per month? | 19:18 |
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| bakarat | lol :> | 19:18 |
| lcuk | do you have pointy hair? | 19:18 |
| bakarat | i have the money to buy it...just not the inclination to spend a crapload of money on a unit that basically acts like a black box with one specific function | 19:18 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, I don't know what your field of work is, but most of the time, just check on google maps where it is, find the nearest tube station, and train yourself at finding shite | 19:18 |
| bakarat | i like to be in control of the stuff i own and preferably combine as much functionality into one device as possible | 19:19 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, it's what I do, and I get around like that even in the Ukraine ffs :P | 19:19 |
| lcuk | bakarat, im sure you could find the £80 for a dedicated unit behind your sofa | 19:19 |
| GAN8001 | GPS units are cheap these days. | 19:19 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, trains don't get everywhere quite as fast as a car will get you, at least in this country :> | 19:19 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, what country is that then? | 19:19 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, belgium | 19:19 |
| crashanddie | heh | 19:19 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, for instance, one of my potential future customers is bout 2 hours by train, 1 hour by car | 19:19 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, company? | 19:20 |
| lcuk | ok, convo over im goin hackin. bbl | 19:20 |
| bakarat | ... :| | 19:20 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, have fun | 19:20 |
| lcuk | as always | 19:20 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, cronos | 19:20 |
| woglinde | bye lcuk | 19:20 |
| crashanddie | heh | 19:21 |
| crashanddie | there's consultancy for what CMS system to use? :P | 19:21 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, anyway, just printing a google maps image can be pretty hard if you have to be like in the center of brussels | 19:21 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, I live in London | 19:21 |
| crashanddie | bakarat, and come by without a problem :) | 19:22 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, nice :D | 19:22 |
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| bakarat | crashanddie, i may be spatially challenged then ;) | 19:22 |
| crashanddie | lol | 19:22 |
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| crashanddie | nee yo, gewoon maar een belg ;) | 19:22 |
| bakarat | :> | 19:22 |
| bakarat | crashanddie, where do you work then? | 19:22 |
| crashanddie | ActivIdentity | 19:22 |
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| bakarat | leuk ;) | 19:23 |
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| woglinde | re | 19:29 |
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| crashanddie_ | bakarat, actually it quite is | 19:35 |
| bakarat | crashanddie_, how so? | 19:35 |
| bakarat | i have some experience with path finding in games etc | 19:35 |
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| crashanddie_ | the algorithm isn't the problem | 19:35 |
| bakarat | i can't imagine it being much more difficult then a sort of node-to-node path? | 19:35 |
| bakarat | ah? | 19:35 |
| bakarat | what is? | 19:35 |
| crashanddie_ | bakarat, as I said, you need to have the maps that are up to date and that have enough details to allow you to apply the algorithm | 19:35 |
| crashanddie_ | and maps are expensive | 19:35 |
| bakarat | true | 19:35 |
| crashanddie_ | you could have the best routing software in the world | 19:35 |
| crashanddie_ | open source or not | 19:35 |
| crashanddie_ | it wouldn't be free, you'd still have to pay for the maps... | 19:35 |
| bakarat | crashanddie_, but that's where the open street map thingy comes in, no? | 19:35 |
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| crashanddie_ | I rarely had a look at an OS map where it wasn't between 10 and 50m off target from the GPS data | 19:36 |
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| * ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] | 19:37 | |
| crashanddie_ | right | 19:38 |
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| crashanddie_ | anyway people | 19:41 |
| crashanddie_ | have a good one, ttyalllater | 19:42 |
| alterego | w00t | 19:42 |
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| crashanddie_ | ~ping | 19:56 |
| infobot | ~pong | 19:56 |
| b-man | ? | 19:56 |
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| lcuk | ok, i have a dilemma | 20:17 |
| lcuk | i want to develop simultainiously for 2 different targets and run the app on 2 different machines after compilation | 20:18 |
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| GAN8001 | Bugzilla's down, the wiki's down, the lists are borked. | 20:25 |
| GAN8001 | maemo.org is falling apart. | 20:25 |
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| alterego | Classic Christmas maemo shinanigans :) | 20:25 |
| GAN8001 | s/maemo/Maemo/g ;) | 20:25 |
| solmumaha | :o | 20:25 |
| alterego | solmumaha: http://blog.rubyx.co.uk/ | 20:26 |
| GAN8001 | alterego, http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:XDLl2fPPfMYJ:https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand&hl=en&strip=1 :P | 20:26 |
| alterego | I can't believe you just threw me a link about formatting 'Maemo' correctly :P | 20:27 |
| alterego | Or is it: Maemo (tm) :) | 20:27 |
| solmumaha | alterego: just when i lost all hope | 20:27 |
| solmumaha | merry christmas to you too | 20:27 |
| alterego | :) | 20:27 |
| GAN8001 | alterego, a google cache link even. :P | 20:28 |
| alterego | :) | 20:28 |
| alterego | Does that mean your information is out-of-date? :D | 20:28 |
| GAN8001 | alterego, but I figured you might've missed it and might care. ;) | 20:28 |
| GAN8001 | Hope not. | 20:28 |
| GAN8001 | Unless Nokia's taken the wiki down to s/Maemo/Window Mobile/g | 20:29 |
| alterego | Hah | 20:29 |
| solmumaha | alterego: how do those differ from 0.3? | 20:29 |
| alterego | solmumaha: basically, functionally they don't. | 20:29 |
| alterego | The difference is in how they're packaged and I've cleaned up the source code. | 20:29 |
| *** turbo is now known as briand | 20:30 | |
| alterego | Basically, I'm doing spring cleaning on the code, getting myself familiar with it again. Then I'll start working on more features. | 20:30 |
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| solmumaha | gregale is now out? | 20:30 |
| alterego | Those packages are just maemo4/chinook/diablo | 20:31 |
| solmumaha | alterego: thanks a lot! i really appreciate this | 20:33 |
| alterego | It's not problem, I do really want to get back into it :) | 20:34 |
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| Stskeeps | evening | 21:11 |
| GAN8001 | afternoon | 21:12 |
| alterego | g'evening | 21:12 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi Stskeeps | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | 'lo qwerty12_N800, GAN, etc | 21:12 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: am i wrong or doesn't googles normal apps work with android / they arent distributable with a new image? | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | like maps, calendar and so on :P just saw some odd posts | 21:16 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, not really sure but i think google only lets those be used with a "official" device | 21:18 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | but i think the emulator has them which makes the above sound odd | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | well sdk is a different animal | 21:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yeah.. | 21:20 |
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| woglinde | re | 21:25 |
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| Stskeeps | wb b-man | 21:28 |
| b-man | hello | 21:28 |
| b-man | so how was the installer? | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | well i asked if the simple installer works perfectly :) i pasted an url image earlier to something you can test with | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.tar.gz , test image to test (problem with touchscreen tap though) | 21:31 |
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| b-man | ok, thanks! | 21:32 |
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| lcuk | emma, is your cat swinging from your net connection again? | 21:55 |
| b-man | @ Stskeeps; i herd that you were discontinueing the unrealIRCd progect; http://forums.unrealircd.com/viewtopic.php?t=5701 - that's too bad. :( | 21:57 |
| GAN800 | i herd cats | 21:58 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man: meh, i'm quitting, a different thing | 21:59 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man: but yes, that'll be the effective thing happening | 21:59 |
| b-man | hehe | 21:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, just 23 posts? disgraceful. :p | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i loathed the forums. not my call to start them | 22:00 |
| GAN800 | lol | 22:01 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | i sat in the support channel from when i started the project, which was 9 years ago, so :P | 22:01 |
| GAN800 | qwerty12, what's X-Fade up to? 12 posts? | 22:01 |
| GAN800 | The SSU thread was just thanks whoring. | 22:02 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GAN800, ha. I think you should sort him out ;P | 22:02 |
| GAN800 | I will if we don't get our lists back. :P | 22:03 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Hehe, my inbox is home to junk, m-c & m-d make it worthwhile :D | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | everything stops working over the holidays, eh? :P | 22:03 |
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| GAN800 | Stskeeps, same as last year | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | at least they aren't releasing a SSU at same time? :P | 22:06 |
| b-man | Stskeeps; what did you get for christmas? | 22:07 |
| b-man | i didn't get my laptop ;p | 22:07 |
| b-man | yet.... | 22:08 |
| b-man | (yes, i know, i'm verry, verry random) | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: book on polish history and a cable to extend 3.5mm stereo.. and another xmas with a parent alive, so it was good | 22:10 |
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| b-man | my parents bough me a dum rc helocopter.... :P | 22:11 |
| b-man | :P | 22:12 |
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| Stskeeps | meh. slap a beagleboard on it | 22:12 |
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| b-man | lol | 22:12 |
| Vulcanis | not a miinigun? | 22:12 |
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| b-man | no, a toy helocopter.... | 22:12 |
| b-man | :P | 22:12 |
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| b-man | but i'm still eventually going to get my laptop :) | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | phew, tslib fixed agai | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | n | 22:15 |
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| Stskeeps | the new dialogs in fremantle are interesting | 22:17 |
| b-man | in what ways are thay different? | 22:18 |
| Vulcanis | b-man: What laptop? | 22:18 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: the close buttons (IIRC)? | 22:18 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: that too, but also popping up from the bottom | 22:19 |
| Jaffa | Oh, screenshots? | 22:19 |
| *** emma has joined #maemo | 22:19 | |
| Jaffa | or videos | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | lemme see if meiz has any.. | 22:19 |
| b-man | @ Vulcanis; i'm planning to buy a dell studio 15.... | 22:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Yerga's got a crapton of them somewhere - screenshots that is | 22:19 |
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| Stskeeps | i should see if matchbox 2 will work now.. | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | we use matchbox1 in mer atm | 22:20 |
| * RST38h yawns | 22:20 | |
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| woglinde | hi rst | 22:26 |
| * GAN800 can't wait for Fremantle. | 22:26 | |
| Stskeeps | i will <3 a2dp :P | 22:26 |
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| RST38h | hey, woglinde, gan, sts | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | evening, RST38h | 22:31 |
| zakkm | Morning guys :) | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: any girl with trying with the tar.gz? | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | .. | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | luck | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | talk about a freudian slip | 22:33 |
| b-man | what? | 22:33 |
| b-man | girl? | 22:33 |
| Tu13es | zakkm: yo | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | any luck trying with the tar.gz and your simple installer? :P | 22:33 |
| zakkm | hows mer coming along? | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | we can make images now, which is a good thing :P | 22:34 |
| woglinde | hehe | 22:34 |
| Tu13es | zakkm: so i got NITdroid installed | 22:34 |
| zakkm | Tu13es: he annouced a new update yesterday thats coming | 22:35 |
| Tu13es | woohoo | 22:35 |
| zakkm | Stskeeps: does that mean i can try it out now? | 22:35 |
| Tu13es | I don't know what to do with it now that it's installed | 22:35 |
| Tu13es | lol | 22:35 |
| zakkm | heh | 22:35 |
| zakkm | Tu13es: download android apps to it? :P | 22:35 |
| b-man | @Stskeeps testing right now.... | 22:35 |
| Tu13es | zakkm: do I have to grab the apps on PC and then transfer them? | 22:36 |
| Tu13es | I don't know where to begin with apps :P | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: getting closer and closer.. | 22:36 |
| zakkm | Tu13es: just download with the builtin browser and after download it would install it | 22:36 |
| Tu13es | ah, interesting | 22:36 |
| Tu13es | any recommendation of where to download from? | 22:36 |
| zakkm | much like maemo and "install" buttons | 22:36 |
| Tu13es | yeah | 22:36 |
| zakkm | androidfreeware.org ? :P | 22:36 |
| * qwerty12_N800 installs through adb, computer's browser is faster :P | 22:36 | |
| zakkm | has meebo ;p | 22:36 |
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| zakkm | havent looked much, been waiting for update.. suppose to have "dualboot" from android and maemo | 22:37 |
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| Tu13es | aha, that would be cool | 22:37 |
| RST38h | Heh, new Nokia phones are full of junkware | 22:38 |
| b-man | lol | 22:38 |
| RST38h | There is "Nokia Download!" which offers "free" applications that all require you to pay for registration | 22:38 |
| RST38h | There is "my Nokia" offering to subscribe you to SMS messages | 22:38 |
| GAN8001 | You can't wipe that shit out, either, can you> | 22:39 |
| GAN8001 | ? | 22:39 |
| RST38h | There is some weird menu that asks you to register for Ovi, Flickr, and some other crap | 22:39 |
| RST38h | I probably can, just didn't get to it yet | 22:39 |
| RST38h | Move it to a new folder titled trash | 22:39 |
| lcuk | is that a roundabout waying of saying you bought a new phone :D | 22:40 |
| RST38h | But it is incredible how numerous and badly coordinated this crap is | 22:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | See if the hacks work on the phone, having to sign shit sucks ballbags | 22:40 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Well, that 5800 I ordered for my wife arrived | 22:40 |
| RST38h | qwerty: most apps will run just fine self-signed | 22:40 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Had wonderful quasi-erotic intercourse with NSU today (required me to edit the registry and run win installer clenaup tool suggested by qwerty) | 22:41 |
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| lcuk | heh RST38h | 22:42 |
| * lcuk is fighting with library definitions and locations | 22:43 | |
| woglinde | lcuk hehe | 22:43 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm, got matchbox2 to compile. i wonder what we can do with that.. | 23:01 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Using it comes on the top ten suggestions on my list :P | 23:02 |
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| alterego | Using it where? fremantle? | 23:05 |
| Stskeeps | Mer | 23:05 |
| qwerty12_N800 | le Mer of course :) | 23:05 |
| alterego | ? | 23:05 |
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| Stskeeps | it needed some dependancies before but it compiles on armel now | 23:05 |
| GAN800 | ~mer | 23:06 |
| infobot | rumour has it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint | 23:06 |
| *** GazzaK is now known as Gary | 23:06 | |
| GAN800 | Community backport/sideport of Fremantle. | 23:06 |
| alterego | Bit of a rubbish name :P | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: Maemo Reconstructed -> M-R -> Mer | 23:07 |
| GAN800 | Gonna get yer ass kicked. | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:07 |
| alterego | Heh | 23:08 |
| woglinde | hehe | 23:08 |
| alterego | MoR (Maemo on Rails)? | 23:08 |
| woglinde | lol | 23:08 |
| * alterego chuckles. | 23:08 | |
| Stskeeps | MaL, Maemo and Lasers | 23:08 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Ruby overexpose :) | 23:09 |
| pupnik | i have some free schotch bonnet pepper paste | 23:11 |
| pupnik | if someone wants | 23:11 |
| alterego | I thought the FIASCO format was already understood. | 23:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | OxFFFF can make them but i dunno if the images produced are 'correct'. the nokia too to generate them may get released | 23:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | s/too/tool/ | 23:16 |
| infobot | qwerty12_N800 meant: OxFFFF can make them but i dunno if the images produced are 'correct'. the nokia tool to generate them may get released | 23:16 |
| alterego | What's "OHM"? | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | open hardware manager, basically it will replace what mce and dsme did before | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | google for it | 23:17 |
| alterego | Yeah, googling the acronym would have been a bad idea though ;) | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | yeah :P | 23:17 |
| alterego | Interesting, it's gonna be a freedesktop thing? | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, think that's the idea - but with some closed plugins | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | which is quite a step up from a closed source daemon | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | waiting for nokia's stuff still though | 23:19 |
| alterego | Yeah, still. I wonder why Nokia keeps chosing hardware that requires these closed source components? :/ | 23:19 |
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| Stskeeps | alterego: well that's life in hw business :P | 23:20 |
| moontiger | hey Stskeeps | 23:20 |
| moontiger | :) | 23:20 |
| qwerty12_N800 | alterego, probably works in their favour anyway, they are a company after all | 23:20 |
| alterego | I think they do it because they use the same chips in their phones. | 23:20 |
| moontiger | does anybody know if the rotation thingy works with the new ssu ? | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | evening moontiger | 23:21 |
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| * moontiger lags to hell and back | 23:23 | |
| alterego | Well "Mer" sounds like a pretty neat idea. | 23:24 |
| * Stskeeps waits for the "but" ;) | 23:24 | |
| alterego | Though, sounds like a lot of work .. | 23:24 |
| alterego | ;) | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | you'd think so, really | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | it is actually easy to get a sane hildon going | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer (look through these) | 23:25 |
| alterego | What's the current status? Or is it still in the ether at the moment? | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | getting closer to getting a -good- demo image that we can get people working on. it'd be a base hildon desktop probably :P | 23:26 |
| GAN8001 | alterego, well there's an open wifi driver for WLAN on both the N8x0 and RX-51 anyway | 23:26 |
| GAN8001 | The rest of the hardware stuff is either "differentiation" (MCE) or legal liability issues (BME). | 23:26 |
| zakkm | hows the battery life on mer compared to maemo? | 23:27 |
| zakkm | and speed? :D | 23:27 |
| zakkm | Stskeeps: as soon as you got a full image to try, im so in for testing :) | 23:28 |
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| zakkm | did you guys make a theme for mer? it looks nice | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: speed is harmed by the lack of manual updates/XDamage like stuff really. battery life, i'm keeping out of that until OHM is out, to align with fremantle | 23:28 |
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| Stskeeps | zakkm: that's one of the nokia themes from diablo i think | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | the pretty theme, that is | 23:29 |
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| zakkm | it so doesnt look like it, at least not official theme | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | the background is different | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | and the left thing i think | 23:29 |
| zakkm | http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer#5277122369401603346 <-- so does not match any nokia theme | 23:30 |
| zakkm | at least none i know of | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: plankton | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | with his own background | 23:30 |
| GAN8001 | Yeah, Plankton. . . . | 23:30 |
| GAN8001 | Official Nokia open source theme | 23:30 |
| zakkm | last time i used plankton it didnt look like that? | 23:30 |
| GAN8001 | Question mark? | 23:31 |
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| zakkm | oh sorry | 23:31 |
| zakkm | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/12pt-hildon-theme-plankton/ would this work? | 23:31 |
| zakkm | id rather 12pt | 23:31 |
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| GAN8001 | Not for OS2008 | 23:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Get it from the sdk repo and you can edit the gtkrc to make it 12pt for diablo | 23:33 |
| zakkm | where is the sdk repo? | 23:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | in this instance, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/h/hildon-theme-plankton/ | 23:35 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Nokia also have a theme which is Echo but in red, hated it | 23:36 |
| zakkm | hehh | 23:36 |
| zakkm | i tried the old os2007 one and it made it plain gtk theme ;p | 23:36 |
| zakkm | should i install that deb and then edit gtkrc on the tablet ? | 23:37 |
| qwerty12_N800 | You won't believe the lengths i went to try and get adria in os2007... | 23:37 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | *os2008 | 23:37 |
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| zakkm | whats adria? | 23:37 |
| alterego | Where's the instructions for installing maemo SDK under sbox2? | 23:38 |
| zakkm | o | 23:38 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yeah, edit the right one in /usr/share/themes/plankton/gtk-2.0/gtkrc | 23:38 |
| zakkm | wow plain gtk finger keyboard looks weird :D | 23:38 |
| GAN8001 | qwerty12_N800, :shudder: | 23:39 |
| alterego | Ah, found it. | 23:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GAN8001, :P | 23:39 |
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| zakkm | would 10 or 11pt work? well? | 23:42 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm either going blind or i can't find where matchbox is started in fremantle sdk. | 23:45 |
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| zakkm | what line should i look for in gtkrc? | 23:46 |
| zakkm | osso-systemfont? | 23:46 |
| zakkm | nokia Sans 16.75 ? | 23:47 |
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| zakkm | what would be my ssh password? | 23:52 |
| GAN8001 | Why are people on Bugzilla so difficult? | 23:53 |
| alterego | These are some really interesting questions zakkm ... | 23:53 |
| zakkm | lol | 23:53 |
| zakkm | sorry :( | 23:53 |
| zakkm | heh i needed to change root on my nokia | 23:54 |
| GAN8001 | andre__, ping? | 23:55 |
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| * zakkm thinks nano should be added to extras | 23:58 | |
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