IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-12-07

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t_s_osmart drinkers ;)00:00
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^Tux^naw00:02
^Tux^I'm suffering SNRI withdrawal and already had 19 today00:03
x29athis seems to be a dev chan, is there a newbie/consumer chan as well?00:03
^Tux^it takes the edge off of the work week00:03
GeneralAntillesx29a, this is everything Maemo00:03
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x29aGeneralAntilles: ah ok, what device do you have?00:03
GeneralAntillesSeveral00:04
x29ai cant wait for my n810, so im trying to get all the information i can get00:04
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GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org has a lot of good info00:04
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: latest installer in svn?00:08
Meiz_n810(mer installer/image builer)00:08
StskeepsMeiz_n810: it's on bzr now.. sec, lemme make you a tar.gz00:09
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Meiz_n810ok00:10
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-imager-20081206-2311.tar.gz , cd mer-imager, sh imager targets/mer-n800-fs-only /your/mounted/partition00:14
Meiz_n810ok00:15
Meiz_n810Stskeeps:00:17
Meiz_n810+ echo __ Bootstrapping into00:17
Meiz_n810shit00:17
Stskeepsforgotaparameter? :P00:17
Meiz_n810wait, i'll pastebin00:17
Stskeepsk00:18
Meiz_n810yes i forgeo00:18
Meiz_n810forgot00:18
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Meiz_n810my bad (again)00:18
Stskeepshehe00:18
Meiz_n810=P00:18
Stskeepsyou have no idea how many times i've screwed up :)00:18
GeneralAntillesWe should really take away your license to hack at some point. :P00:19
Stskeeps10 years of hacking in public and it hasn't happened yet00:19
Stskeeps.. even though i did have some hillarious bugs00:20
Stskeepslike, an IRCd going on a killing spree and /kill'ing the entire network00:20
Stskeepscos of a parsing error00:20
Stskeepsthat was times..00:20
Stskeeps:P00:20
^Tux^no00:20
Stskeepsnow i'm in pervasive healthcare instead. ponder that.00:20
^Tux^times was when I found a bug in bahamut00:20
^Tux^told devels00:20
^Tux^they issued a "fix" that was shit00:21
^Tux^then went back and started killing dalnet00:21
^Tux^;(00:21
^Tux^I think I still have my "bahamut-fuck" alias bound00:21
Meiz_n810http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=698824731595396103500:23
Meiz_n810nitdroid would be nice with dualboot and working wifi00:24
Stskeepsmm, solca's selector will be nice to have00:24
Meiz_n810yep00:25
Meiz_n810we'll have it someday00:25
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: got a new camera or a steady cam? you move it like a robot.00:25
Stskeeps:P00:25
Stskeeps.. or just zoom00:25
Meiz_n810not zoom, not robot, not my hand00:26
t_s_oah, no phone is complete without a snake game. thats what made those early nokia gsm's so hot ;)00:26
Meiz_n810:P00:26
StskeepsMeiz_n810: pretty neat though00:27
Stskeepsjust goes to show how versatile this device is00:27
Meiz_n810it is nice, but still not replacing maemo00:27
Meiz_n810crashing at the end is cool :)00:27
StskeepsMeiz_n810: but yeah.. maemo needs to shape up similar to that to compete i guess00:28
t_s_oheh, yellow out rather then white out, nice00:28
StskeepsMeiz_n810: wtf @ the last thing showing on screen00:29
Stskeepssec00:29
Meiz_n810fadeout is always different color :)00:29
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Stskeeps02:08 shows residue of the tiger and clock, pretty neat :P00:30
Meiz_n810i did notg mean to crash it00:30
Meiz_n810:)00:30
Stskeepsyeah yeah ;)00:31
Meiz_n810it crashed just the right time00:31
Meiz_n810i had no idea what should i have done next00:31
Meiz_n810fuck my english skills00:31
Meiz_n810:000:31
Meiz_n810:P00:31
Stskeepsyou have better english than me at 13 :P00:32
Stskeepsit did improve after several years on irc though00:32
Meiz_n810what about when you were 14?00:33
* Meiz_n810 hates his slow internet connection00:34
Meiz_n810(the slowness, not the connection :P)00:35
Stskeeps14 wasn't much better. :P00:36
Meiz_n810android itself does not die when fading away, the userspace just crashes00:37
Meiz_n810i am able to run reboot from computer :)00:37
Stskeepsa00:37
Stskeepsh00:37
suihkulokkit_s_o: they have a 3d snakes as a free downloadable game for current symbian phones00:38
Stskeepsi think the main motivation for having a later kernel on n8x0s for me, is so RNDIS works.. :P00:38
t_s_onot surprised ;)00:38
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Meiz__n810Stskeeps: mer installer stopped after Extacting :(00:40
StskeepsMeiz__n810: swap activated?00:40
Meiz__n810no00:40
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Meiz__n810i'll try with swap00:40
Meiz__n810debootstrap command has --variant=minbase two times00:42
Stskeepseh00:42
Stskeepswill fix, shouldn't hurt00:42
Meiz__n810k00:42
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Meiz__n810Stskeeps: works now :)00:52
Stskeepswoo00:52
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: you are aware the install will take .. ages?, right? :P01:20
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Meiz_n810it just failed again01:21
Stskeepsar fuck01:21
Stskeepshow?01:21
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Meiz_n810apt-get nagged about depends01:21
Stskeepsfine, i'd like to se01:21
Stskeepse01:21
Meiz_n810how can i skip debootstrapping partg01:22
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Meiz_n810is there a log i can show you?01:22
Stskeepsprefix with NO_DEBOOTSTRAP=1y01:22
Stskeepsyeah, the nag about depends :P01:22
Stskeepsalso remember to umount /yourtarget/proc /yourtarget/dev/pts01:23
Meiz_n810not workig01:23
Stskeepshm?01:23
Meiz_n810it debootstrapps anybay01:23
Meiz_n810way01:23
Stskeepsctrl-c it01:23
Meiz_n810done it already01:23
StskeepsNO_DEBOOTSTRAP=1 sh imager targets/mer-n800-only-fs /yourtarget01:24
Meiz_n810it starts debootstrapping as i said01:24
Meiz_n810ah01:24
Meiz_n810sorry01:24
Meiz_n810wait01:24
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Meiz_n810now it failed to mount /proc because it is already mounted :P01:25
Meiz_n810i'll umount i01:25
Meiz_n810it01:25
Meiz_n810now it seems to work01:26
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Meiz_n810failed01:27
Stskeepsplease to pastebin01:27
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Meiz_n810http://pastebin.com/m74eed2f501:29
Meiz_n810i will go to sleep...01:29
Stskeepsalright, ta01:30
Stskeepsi'll look at this.. weird error01:30
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l7is this the most recent version of streamripper for maemo? -> www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=830601:47
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KnowledgeStill no word on the new tablet?01:50
Stskeepsplenty of rumours01:50
GeneralAntillesKnowledge, same as last time.01:50
GeneralAntillesTrust me, you'll notice when it's announced.01:50
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KnowledgeDamn it...I want to buy something01:51
woglindeKnowledge bye some money01:51
KnowledgeI already have everything that I need...and most of what I want.01:51
GeneralAntillesKnowledge, put the $500 in a 6 month CD and wait. :P01:52
Knowledge6 months?!...dude...that would blow01:52
GeneralAntillesSummer 200901:52
GeneralAntillesBeta SDK is coming out in May01:52
Knowledgeyou're not kidding are you...01:52
Knowledgehmm...I'm hoping it'll be one HELL of a device01:53
Knowledgebut then again with nokia, how wouldn't it be01:53
^Tux^they'01:53
GeneralAntillesOMAP3430, HD camera, HDPA?01:53
GeneralAntillesThe signs are there.01:53
^Tux^ve bought a bunch of old ipaqs01:53
^Tux^and are rebranding them01:53
^Tux^as the new tablets01:54
^Tux^nokia tablet Stskeeps edition01:54
KnowledgeHDPA? as in GSM?01:54
StskeepsHSDÆA01:54
GeneralAntilles3G data01:54
Stskeeps.. HSDPA01:54
Stskeeps:P01:54
Knowledgeyeah, hsdpa..that's right01:54
KnowledgeI already have EVDO...01:54
GeneralAntillesEr, HSPA rather01:55
GeneralAntillesBut I didn't mean HSDPA01:55
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Knowledgewait, HSPA looks like a better HSDPA...01:56
GeneralAntillesIt'll be faster than EVDO, anyway.01:56
Knowledgepfft...that would be wonderful, I think EVDO is awesome...granted my carrier just got it about a month ago01:56
Knowledgesadly01:56
GeneralAntillesOh, right, OpenGL, too.01:56
GeneralAntilles720p decoding01:57
Knowledgewoah. so, it's going to basically be a netbook?01:57
GeneralAntillesSo, yeah, there aint much holding this tablet back.01:57
GeneralAntillesEr, well, a netbook power in a tablet's formfactor01:57
Stskeepswith battery life of a nokia cellphone01:57
Stskeeps:P01:57
Knowledgethat's going to be nuts...I can't wait01:57
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Knowledgewow man, technology has come a far way if you really think about it....from huge computers to something that fits in your pocket...01:59
soapthe trick will be to sell your current tablet exactly one day before the announcement.  ;)01:59
KnowledgeNo word is what it's going to be called huh?01:59
GeneralAntillessoap, why sell?02:00
GeneralAntillesKnowledge, nope.02:00
Stskeepswe'll be opening a betting pool on the announcement date02:00
Stskeeps:P02:00
Knowledgeright, I still have a 770, which is actually beeping at me because the battery is dying...my poor neglected 77002:00
GeneralAntillessoap, I used my old ones as remotes, ebook readers or couch browsers02:00
soapGeneralAntilles, I, for one, can not afford to own both at the same time.  (and suspect I am not alone in that situation.)02:00
soapI already own too many DAPs.  Don't need to start compulsively collecting tablets as well.  ;)02:01
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KnowledgeMan, I keep buying phones to get them to do what my 770 does, but I always end up going back to my 770. And even though I haven't touched my 770 in a long long time...I use my HTC Titan to browse the net, or do simple stuff and think "man, my 770 would whoop this things pitoot"02:02
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GeneralAntillesYou think the 770 would kick something's ass, you need to try an OMAP2 tablet. . . .02:04
Knowledgebut I really think there should be a better way/place to get apps...02:04
KnowledgeOMAP2?02:04
Knowledgelet me joojle02:04
GeneralAntillesN8x002:05
GeneralAntillesdownloads.maemo.org and Extras. . . .02:05
Knowledgeoh, yeah...that...I dunno man, there's something about the 810 that I just don't dig...as for the 800, I sold it to go back to my 77002:05
GeneralAntillesUm?02:06
GeneralAntillesThat's a . . . bizarre choice.02:06
KnowledgeI just couldn't stand looking at it...02:06
GeneralAntillesThat's an awful strong aesthetic hate. :\02:06
Knowledgeit looked toooooo.......I dunno how to describe it.....like it tried to hard to be main stream02:06
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Knowledgewith the silver and shiny trim etc...02:07
GeneralAntilles:/02:07
Knowledgeawww don't tell me the new one is going to resemble it...I gotta tell ya, I wouldn't care if that thing could spawn money for you, I wouldn't take it. I really hated the 800...weird I know...02:08
StskeepsKnowledge: people here are mostly maemo community, not getting revenue in any way ;)02:09
GeneralAntillesWe don't know what it'll look like.02:09
Knowledgehuh?02:09
soap_as long as it looks like more flash, more RAM, and more CPU I'm happy.02:10
GeneralAntillesMore CPU it'll have. <_<02:10
GeneralAntilles2 or 3 times more.02:11
GeneralAntillesThere seems to be a remote chance of it having 512MB of RAM.02:11
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KnowledgeMight even be able to run an actual distro...02:16
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GeneralAntillesKnowledge, well, you can do that now if you've got an N8x002:17
Knowledgewhat?!02:17
GeneralAntilleshttp://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet02:17
Knowledgeman, I've been out of the loop...I have to catch up02:17
GeneralAntillesShould looked past the aesthetics. . . .02:17
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Knowledgeyou mean screen shots?02:18
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KnowledgeWow, 8GB SDHC for the 770? I've gotta dedicate a few hours tomorrow to catching up...02:22
* Stskeeps hopes to target 770 with mer too02:22
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, the 770 is fscking slow02:23
l7man, the n97 looks so cool02:23
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah, but did you see the vid the guy who's 770 died to get deblet on it?02:23
Stskeepsit wasn't directly bad02:23
l7i wonder how many similiarities the n97 and n900 will have02:23
GeneralAntillesl7, Symbian sucks.02:23
GeneralAntillesl7, well, they wont be sharing a CPU anyway.02:24
Knowledgeyea, the 770 is slow...02:24
l7GeneralAntilles: why? it seems like a decent choice if you want an open-ish phone environment02:24
l7i suppose you could also try some of the Motorola Linux phones02:24
GeneralAntillesl7, there isn't a single phone OS that interests me.02:24
GeneralAntillesl7, I mean, if I'm paying $700 for a phone, it better be a helluva lot more interesting than Symbian. ;)02:25
l7heh there is that02:25
l7i couldn't find an openssh sever for symbian anywhere02:25
Stskeepssymbian is a bit different creature is it? for openssh :P02:26
rukbatopenssh is not very portable02:26
l7it's not the most important feature in a phone02:27
Knowledgefor 700 dollars, it better come with a bj...02:27
rukbateven the linux version needs a good size library to make things look like bsd02:27
l7but i have gotten used to shelling into my tablet for all sorts of stuff02:27
Knowledgequick question...OS2007, BT PAN possible?02:27
Stskeepswasn't the something about BT version in 770?02:28
l7700 is about the same price as an unlocked iphone, though the n97's hardware does seem better02:28
l7if only the n900 could function as a phone too02:29
GeneralAntillesvoip02:29
GeneralAntillesI'd actually be interested to see how that might perform.02:29
l7it's a little difficult to recieve calls with voip isn't it?02:29
Knowledgedamn it no BT PAN.02:30
GeneralAntillesl7, how do you mean?02:30
l7seems like it would almost always go to voicemail when someone calls you02:30
GeneralAntillesVoIP can be 100% transparent to the user.02:30
GeneralAntillesEr, why?02:30
l7how would you answer unless you had a network connection?02:30
GeneralAntilles3g. . . .02:30
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KnowledgeSimultanious Voice and Data?02:31
GeneralAntillesVoIP over 3G02:32
l7if 3g stays connected all the time, i guess it would work02:32
KnowledgeSimultaneous I meant02:32
GeneralAntillesKnowledge, the N900 is data-only02:32
GeneralAntillesVoIP is just more data02:32
KnowledgeWell, EVDO (tethered) you could do voice and data...02:32
l7it is kind of a cool idea, if you could just get a good data only plan02:33
GeneralAntillesl7, I've been wondering about that02:33
KnowledgeI have 2 phones with the same ESN (yes yes, I know illegal)....I tethered with one, and called with the other...and it worked....but incoming still doesn't work02:33
GeneralAntillesI think you can get a $30/mo plan from AT&T02:33
l7hrm, that's not a bad deal02:33
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l7i've heard AT&T's network coverage lags a bit behind Sprint and verizon02:34
l7but if you in a metro area it should be okay02:34
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KnowledgeAnother question...2007 = diablo?02:35
GeneralAntillesNo02:35
Knowledgedamn it.02:35
GeneralAntillesDiablo is Maemo 4.102:35
GeneralAntillesOS2008.102:35
Knowledgeohh...02:35
KnowledgeI see02:35
KnowledgeI can't remember what I flashed onto my 77002:37
KnowledgeI hope 08, since Bluetooth pan is possible02:37
Stskeepsprobably chinook HE02:38
woglindeKnowledge hm there is one small error with pan and smartphones like htc02:38
Knowledge?02:38
l7hmm, i wonder what kind of fancy tricks you could pull with an asterix server, voip and an n90002:38
Knowledgewoglinde: what is the error?02:39
woglindeKnowledge maemo will think its pda02:40
Knowledgehmm...02:40
woglindeand will not allow you do make inet connection over it02:40
woglindebut you can change this in the  gconf-reg02:40
Knowledgehmm, I should try my other phone and see if I could tether...brb02:41
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Knowledgeis there a repository list that I could download?02:46
StskeepsMeiz_n810: works for me (tm), did you remember to clean out your fs first before installing on top?02:48
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zakkmIf i have transmission and i saved it to mmc-internal ... where would it save it to?03:59
zakkmcant find it anywhere03:59
zakkm"mmc-undefined-name-internal"03:59
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zakkmdoes anywhere know where mmc-undefined-name-internal is .. in /04:05
SmackPotati want sound input on a usb sound card on a 770 i have the hardware and the drivers loaded and its showing up as /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c  so what should i do next04:06
SmackPotatits a file zakkm04:07
SmackPotat?04:07
zakkmits a folder?04:08
zakkmits a variable for a folder04:08
SmackPotatin root try this find / -name mmc-und*04:09
inteliwaspare there still any problems with diablo or can i move to that now?04:09
timelessdiablo's how many months old now?04:09
timelessits only problem is that it doesn't get updated very often :)04:09
GeneralAntillesinteliwasp, just upgrade.04:09
SmackPotaton my 810 it has always worked great04:10
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inteliwaspb/c i saw on the canola site that they said that m player and other thigs are not ready yet...04:10
GeneralAntillesThey work fine04:11
GeneralAntillesChinook's now a year old.04:11
inteliwaspoh nice... *begings flashing...*04:11
timelessbackup first?04:12
* inteliwasp has a fit if he dies not back up, and besides nothing is on the n800 without being on other storage mediums first04:13
SmackPotatusing my 770 for audio project is coming a long i now have a 16g card mounted and a usb sound card04:14
inteliwasp....04:15
inteliwaspmy flasher does not like my predownloaded img...04:16
inteliwaspoh well...04:16
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zakkmGeneralAntilles04:17
zakkmwhere is mmc-undefined-name-internal04:17
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oilinkiSmackPotat: what is the benefit of using usb sound card?04:24
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timelessexternal mic/line in?04:28
timelessthe 770 doesn't have a mic jack04:29
timelessof an fm radio for that matter04:29
LiraNunaany comparison of N97 vs N81004:30
GeneralAntillesLiraNuna, the N97 isn't released yet04:30
oilinkiah. I did not read well enough, sp did say 'sound input' .. sorry.04:31
LiraNunahttp://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/article5274882.ece04:31
LiraNuna"launches" as keyword04:31
timelessit's ok, i did a double take when i first read it a while ago04:31
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LiraNunaah04:31
LiraNunaI hate the iPhone and I want to either get the N810 WiMAX or N9704:31
GeneralAntillesI'm wondering if the N900 will actually turn out to be Nokia's first OMAP3 device.04:32
timelesswho cares?04:32
benhwoul be nice to have a decent 3d engine04:32
timelessif it is, that just means it'll be buggier :)04:32
benhlike some omap3 seem to have04:32
timelessall things considered, as a customer, i'd rather have device #504:32
GeneralAntillestimeless, well, it'd represent a first for the tablets.04:32
timelessbleeding edge?04:32
GeneralAntillesbenh, the next tablet is coming with OpenGL.04:33
oilinkiI'm mostly waiting for NXX which would have GSM chip inside04:33
timelessis that really a first you want?04:33
benhGeneralAntilles: have there been an announce or article yet ?04:33
GeneralAntillestimeless, I didn't say I wanted anything. :P04:33
SmackPotatoilinki,  the 770 doesnt have a audio in and i want to connmect a fm radio04:33
GeneralAntillesIt'd be an interesting change of pace, though.04:33
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timelesshey, the touch screen was a first04:33
GeneralAntillesbenh, http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html04:33
timelesswe did bleed there :)04:33
oilinkiSmackPotat: undestood. I did not read your line well enough before :)04:33
benhwell, omap3 can have powervr in it, though i don't think the GL ES stack is open source04:34
timeless(bleeding is like leading but with 2 spelling errors)04:34
benhGeneralAntilles: thanks !04:34
GeneralAntillesEither way, S60 doesn't really have much to do with Maemo.04:34
SmackPotatcool im a bit behind on the conversation04:34
LiraNuna"Nokia executive Ari Jaaksi revealed today in a keynote at the Open Source in Mobile show that Nokia will add 3G/HSPA capabilities to an OMAP3-optimized Maemo 5 release for the tablets" am I reading this right?04:34
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timelessstop reading, it's hazardous to your health04:34
GeneralAntillesLiraNuna, that announcement is from months ago.04:34
pupnikyeah :)04:34
zakkmwhere is mmc-undefined-name-internal04:34
zakkmin / ?04:35
pupnikdunno04:35
timelesshow can you be an uninformed /. user04:35
timelessif you actually read the articles...04:35
zakkm?04:35
timelesstsk04:35
zakkmwhat articles?04:35
timelesszakkm /media/mmc1 or /media/mmc204:35
zakkmtransmission said it downloaded to mmc-undefined-name-internal and i cant find it anywehre04:35
zakkmthank you04:35
timelessand file a bug04:36
GeneralAntillesI'm a bit surprised that the N97 is gonna ship with an ARM1104:37
* timeless wonders what an arm11 is04:39
GeneralAntillesSlower than a Cortex A804:39
timelessslow is good, right?04:39
timelessbetter battery life04:39
GeneralAntillesSorry, no.04:40
timelessi'm in a strange mood04:40
timelessi've been starving for hours04:40
GeneralAntillesCortex A8 is significantly more efficient than an ARM11 at the same performance level.04:40
timelessand i filed ~5 security bugs04:40
GeneralAntillesGo eat something then go to sleep. :P04:40
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lcuktimeless, i hope one of your bugs was "feeling hungry, nothing in stomach"  and that you actually managed to resolve it04:44
timelessi failed to resolve it04:50
timelesslcuk: have you read that bug?04:50
timelesshttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102849 => lcuk04:51
lcukhahahahah04:52
lcukno, i hadnt :D04:52
lcuktimeless, you areally are timeless04:54
timelessit's 5til 5a04:55
timelessfood closes officially at 5a04:55
timelessbut they stop producing sooner04:55
lcuksame everywhere - they dont want an order that will take 30 mins coming in 2 minutes before closing04:56
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zakkmis Mer suppose to bring performance boosts at all?05:05
GeneralAntilleszakkm, you missed the point.05:06
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zakkmlol05:06
zakkmi know the point05:06
zakkmim just trying out fennec.. i know its in alpha05:06
zakkmand thinking how i want my nokia faster05:06
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SmackPotatbloomberg.com05:07
SmackPotatopps05:08
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pupnikmytube youtube viewer would be a nice app for PC07:04
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timelessoh, someone asked about mmc-undefined-name-internal07:39
timelesshttp://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/libhildonfm-2.0.5/hildon-fm/hildon-file-system-storage-dialog.c#122307:39
timelessthat should be /media/mmc207:39
timelesshttp://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-fm-l10n-public-5.0+r6135/po/en_GB.po#4507:40
GeneralAntillestimeless, we gonna get Fremantle stuff in there once the alpha sdk is out.07:40
GeneralAntillesEr, make that a question.07:40
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zakkmyeah it was me07:47
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zakkmIs it possible to update Flash in Maemo?08:09
zakkmIm told the newest Diablo still uses flash 9 , when 10 is clearly out08:09
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GeneralAntilleszakkm, sure, if you can convince Adobe to compile you a copy. . . . :\08:17
zakkmthey dont release ARM versions?08:17
mavhcwhy is closed source bad again?08:17
zakkmcause ppl will fork and make it better than yours08:17
zakkm;p08:17
zakkmlook at debian and ubuntu ;p08:18
zakkmmost ppl choose ubuntu08:18
GeneralAntilleszakkm, lame analogy08:18
mavhcit's not a zero sum game though08:18
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zakkmlol08:18
zakkmGeneralAntilles: you have a better one/08:18
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zakkmbetter fork and ppl choose the fork08:19
GeneralAntillesFor why closed source is bad?08:19
zakkmno08:19
zakkmbetter one than debian and ubuntu .. where the fork becomes the chosen one08:19
zakkmfor most people08:19
GeneralAntillesI don't see who loses in that analogy08:19
zakkmisnt there uhh08:19
zakkmtheres a opensource flash player i remember08:19
mavhcdebian gets free paid employees08:19
zakkmit sucked lol but it existed08:19
GeneralAntillesSo people stop using the thing you gave away for free.08:20
zakkmGnash08:20
GeneralAntillesSounds more like you won, because now your hosting costs have gone down.08:20
zakkmthats it, had to google08:20
GeneralAntillesEither way, Debian and Ubuntu target two different audiences.08:20
zakkmyeah i know08:20
zakkmmavhc: theres gnash? :P08:20
zakkmwe should port gnash to nokia :P lol08:20
rukbateven better, there's mplayerplugin :-)08:20
GeneralAntillesmavhc, I hear it's because evil companies put ungodly things in their source code and you can't tell. ;)08:21
GeneralAntillesGnash is already running.08:21
zakkmHigh Quality Output08:21
zakkm    Gnash uses OpenGL for rendering the graphics on the desktop, and AntiGrain (AGG) for embedded framebuffer only devices.08:21
zakkmmplayerplugin works?08:21
zakkmon microb?08:21
rukbatoh, probably not..08:22
zakkmstarted really liking the LCARS skin :P08:22
mavhcis there a worse starting point for a gui than: I saw it on tv?08:23
zakkm?08:24
zakkmoh lol08:24
zakkmlcars works nicely08:24
zakkmexcept black background screws up application manager08:24
GeneralAntillesmavhc, it's just a theme. :P08:24
zakkmis uhh08:24
zakkm...  /home/user/.mozilla/microb/chrome/userContent.css08:25
zakkmstill used for microb?08:25
zakkmshould i do hosts method or usercontent for microb ad blocking?08:25
zakkmor both?08:26
pupnikmmm maybe i could make a hosts file out of the adblock subscription08:27
zakkmwhich is better method though08:29
zakkmhosts or usercontent08:29
GeneralAntilleszakkm, it's a both deal, not either or.08:29
zakkmi should do both?08:29
zakkmhosts and usercontent ?08:30
zakkmhosts would redirect = blank it...  .. what would usercontent do?08:30
GeneralAntillesBoth.08:30
zakkmso i should do both08:30
zakkmreplace hosts and usercontent?08:30
GeneralAntillesFor the third time, yes, both.08:31
zakkmsorry, its late im tired08:31
zakkmtrying to turn my nokia into more of a laptop08:31
zakkmbut it seems a bit slow for normal laptop usage, well the way i use it08:32
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mavhcjust install adblockplus08:36
GeneralAntillesmavhc, AdBlock is slow and crappy08:37
mavhcis it faster than loading ads?08:38
GeneralAntillesmavhc, that's why you use CSS/hosts.08:39
GeneralAntillesand, honestly, the ABP performance hit almost totally eliminates the "not loading ads" gains. :\08:39
zakkmdoes it help alot?08:41
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zakkmi try to view engadget and stuff on my nokia08:42
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pupniki'm frustrated with the horrible slow websites08:48
pupniksimple, honest, nonfsckedup websites work great on the tablet08:49
zakkmlol08:49
zakkmgoogle.ca :D08:49
mavhcanyone tried going via one of these mobile browser proxies to simplify the page?08:49
zakkmnot on nokia, but on pc08:49
zakkmmavhc: ^08:49
mavhcwhat about flashblock? I'd guess flash slows it down a lot08:51
zakkmwhy not just disable flash08:52
pupniknot to mention multiple security vulnerabilities last year08:52
zakkmand enable when need be?08:52
pupnikwould be nice to be able to temp enable flash with a click on the flash region08:52
mavhcthat's what flashblock is supposed to make easy08:52
mavhchttp://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/downloads_os2008.html08:53
zakkmi use flashblock on my desktop08:53
zakkmin camino :P08:53
zakkmbut its another plugin to startup = slow ;p08:53
mavhcslower than flash?08:54
zakkmyou can disable flash08:54
zakkmin microb?08:54
zakkmwith a click of two buttons08:54
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GeneralAntillesWhy does itT always seem to go to hell in the mornings?09:03
zakkm?09:03
GeneralAntillesEither down or sloooow09:03
zakkmoh09:04
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RST38hmoo all09:42
RST38hGeneral: Too many Americans accessing it!09:42
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RST38h[hmm, actually that is only partially true given that General is at the east coast]09:42
AStormok, do you have an idea how to prevent excessive swapping here with maemo09:44
AStormor improve responsiveness in that case?09:44
RST38hWhat are you running?09:44
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AStormbrowser :P09:45
AStormthat  is microb09:45
AStormgot into swap with them, which neatly locked n810 up for a few minutes09:46
AStormI'd expect at least the other apps to work09:46
RST38hah09:47
RST38hThe only way is to kill browserd09:47
AStormalso running were: xchat, pidgin, osso-xterm with vim09:47
RST38honce it is respawned you should be fine09:47
AStormsure09:47
RST38hfor a while at least09:47
AStormbut killing it took minutes09:48
AStormoh, and it still is alive09:48
AStorm(and leaking :P)09:48
AStormor... why is rss feed reader running?09:49
AStormI don't have any such applet on desk09:49
AStorms/is/was/09:50
AStormor obexsrv if bt is disabled? :P09:51
AStormwaste of a MB09:51
RST38hAstorm: there are two processes09:52
RST38hOne browserd is a small one and it spawns the large one09:52
AStormplus other services09:52
AStormif bt is disabled, all these should be stopped09:52
AStormand started as needed09:52
AStorme.g. bluetooth audio service09:52
AStormor gpsdriver09:53
AStormwe have dsme and hal for a reason09:53
AStormthese unused services take 32 MB or so together09:54
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AStormalso, we could use a swap compression patch09:58
AStormthere was one recent I think09:58
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AStormas the immc is *very* slow09:59
RST38hAStorm: wait09:59
AStorm500 KBps09:59
AStormok10:00
RST38hswap compression will slow things to a crawl10:00
AStormnah, why10:00
RST38h'cause gzip is also not free CPU-wise10:00
AStormwe have enough cpu10:00
AStormand immc is slow enough10:00
AStormI think it's the mmc io that is taking a lot of time10:00
AStormthat's why swapping is so abysmal10:01
RST38hAStorm: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=370510:01
RST38hAStorm: Enjoy10:01
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AStormor we're hitting thrashing :)10:01
GeneralAntilles"bug"10:01
AStorm(read: need a kernel update)10:01
AStormmeh10:02
AStormbrowserd died as I sent it a HUP10:02
RST38hAStorm: In my case browserd did not swap (I had swap off) but basically used 100% CPU10:02
AStormhmm10:03
RST38hOnce it goes into this kind of cardiac arrest, killing it of basically takes an ssh login + kill10:03
AStormI get to restart it to have browser running10:03
* RST38h even remembers playing with process priorities but it did not help10:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I've yet to have an issue like that with normal browsing.10:03
AStormweird10:03
RST38hAStorm: That is because you kill the wrong browserd10:03
AStormweb doesn't restart it10:03
AStormheh10:04
RST38hGeneral: Greatly depends on the sites you are visiting10:04
AStormhow do I restart it?10:04
GeneralAntillesPlease don't file another "bug" like that in the future, though. :\10:04
AStormI hupped it10:04
RST38hAStorm: Look at the process list. You will see two browserds, one small another big10:04
AStormnot killed per se10:04
RST38hAStorm: Kill the BIG ONE.10:04
RST38hHUP is the same thing10:04
AStormbut it died anyway10:04
RST38hAt least for browserd :)10:04
AStormhow do I restart the small one then?10:04
RST38h  /usr/bin/browserd ? :)10:05
RST38hGeneral: It is a valid bug report for a valid issue10:05
AStormweird, which didn't show it10:05
RST38hGeneral: The only reason why I will not file another one like this is because I now believe that Nokia engineers don't give a fuck10:05
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's nothing of the sort.10:06
AStormhmmh10:06
RST38hGeneral: There is another report that is probably going to have similar outcome: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=391310:06
AStormok, so, what args do I give to it?10:06
GeneralAntillesIt's criticizing an architecture choice with specious arguments.10:06
AStorm(it should have an init script, meh)10:07
RST38hGeneral: Well, it is evidently wrong architecture choice10:07
RST38hHas to be fixed10:07
GeneralAntillesRST38h, clearly Nokia doesn't agree.10:07
RST38hGeneral: Experimental results are not a matter of agreement10:07
AStormarchitecture is ok, but leaks are not10:07
GeneralAntillesAs it's rare that one person is always right about everything, it then comes down to a disagreement over use cases.10:07
RST38hGeneral: Leaks memory. Hard to kill. Shaves 3 seconds off load time.10:08
AStormand unless browserd is leakfree, it will be problematic10:08
GeneralAntillesYes, AStorm, bugs that are bugs should be fixed.10:08
AStorm:)10:08
AStormwell, normal microb took more memory10:08
RST38hGeneral: Once again: I have measured the advantage browserd give. It is 3 seconds.10:08
GeneralAntillesRST38h, if you want to file a bug report, do so, but whining about architecture choices isn't what bugzilla is for.10:08
AStormRST38h, and starting browser took 3s more10:09
AStormso?10:09
GeneralAntillesRST38h, personally, that's an advantage I'll take gladly.10:09
AStorm:)10:09
RST38hGeneral: Ok, let s approach it from the other direction10:09
RST38hAStorm: Those 3 secs were the whole point of switching to browserd10:09
AStormagain, what args is browserd started woth?10:09
AStorm*with10:09
RST38hprolly without if it is the first process10:09
GeneralAntillesRST38h, you also realize that browserd will be used for more things than just the browser, right?10:10
AStormlike, applets?10:10
GeneralAntillesWhich would end up reducing RAM usage in the long run, particularly with certain use cases10:10
RST38hGeneral: No. Isn't it called BROWSERd? :)10:10
GeneralAntillesAStorm, right.10:10
AStorm... could be called xulrunnerd10:10
AStormso don't complain :P10:11
RST38hGeneral, it will not reduce the RAM usage. Think about it a bit more.10:11
AStormit might, a bit10:11
AStormby saving on data structures10:11
RST38hThe proof here is very simple10:11
RST38hNope10:11
RST38hNot a bit10:11
GeneralAntillesAnyway, I'm not really interested in having this discussion again.10:11
RST38hLet us approach it from a different direction10:11
AStormlike cookie tables, history, etc.10:11
RST38hWe have got flash plugin that runs inside browserd10:12
AStormand cache index10:12
RST38hIt has got this nice feature of waiting in a busy loop doing gettimeofday()10:12
AStormRST38h, yup, that is wrong10:12
RST38hWho isi responsible for fixing it?10:12
AStormit should run in a subprocess10:12
GeneralAntillesAdobe.10:12
AStormyes, Adobe10:12
RST38hAStorm: Think of it: all these things, cache, cookies, history  do they go away once you switch to browserd? :)10:12
AStormit could be worked around like Opera does10:12
AStormRST38h, they're not duplicated10:13
RST38hOk. So, you have got a flash plugin that hangs your tablet hard.10:13
RST38hYou can't easily kill it because it is run from browserd10:13
RST38hYou can't file a bug report on it because Nokia is not responsible10:13
AStormthe latter is a bug10:13
RST38hYou can't file bug report with Adobe because Adobe also does not give a fuck10:13
AStormI mean, it shouldn't be run from browserd process10:13
AStormbut a subprocess, like a sandbox10:13
RST38hWhat is the preferred course of action here?10:14
AStormafaicr, new xulrunner supports that10:14
x29a_chrome would not allow a flash to kill the whole device ;)10:14
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RST38hAStorm: Ideally, it should be a subprocess with low priority10:14
RST38hChrome would do it by itself instead? =)10:14
AStormx29a, yup, firefox 3 can do that10:14
x29afrom what i read, it implements the sandbox approach10:14
AStormat least somewhat10:14
AStormopera does it better though :)10:15
RST38hAStorm: BTW, there is another bug report about memory leaks: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3704  (do notice that it does not apply to swapping)10:15
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AStormRST38h, can't view web until you tell me what argsbrowserd is ran with10:16
AStorm:>10:16
RST38hA moment, lemme check10:16
AStormunless I start fennec10:16
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RST38hAStorm: /etc/rc0.d/K15tablet-browser-daemon10:17
AStormah, /etc/rc*/ not /etc/init.d10:17
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* AStorm curses broken init system10:17
x29ais it true that you can install apps using the debian-arch branch via apt-get?10:21
RST38hNo.10:21
AStormnot until you add repos10:21
AStormand fix broken deps10:22
x29aah ok10:22
x29adamn i cant wait10:22
AStormwhee, time to try out fennec tinderbox build10:27
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: alive?11:25
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RST38hAnybody managed to run TangoGPS?11:35
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RST38hThe .deb package they provide does not install on Diablo11:35
qwerty12I did but I don't have a GPS so I uninstalled it afterwards11:35
qwerty12or rather, my only gps is unwilling to pair with my N800 :-)11:36
RST38hWhat is the magic trick?11:39
qwerty12I just used dpkg. The package has a section of "unknown". Also the desktop file is installed to /usr/share/applications/ rather than /usr/share/applications/hildon so you can either run "tangogps" from the terminal or reboot for it to show up in the menu.11:40
Meiz_n810many packages refuse to install via app-mgr11:41
RST38hqwerty: Any chance of asking authors to fix the package?11:42
qwerty12RST38h, it doesn't really bother me as I don't have a use for the program11:43
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RST38hhehe11:43
qwerty12I tried it out of curiosity :)11:43
* RST38h is preparing a new fMSX release11:44
RST38hNext one will probably be the slot machine simulator11:45
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RST38h~curse Perl for being anal retentive about locales11:51
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Perl for being anal retentive about locales !11:51
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qwerty12RST38h, I've got a proper debian package here anyway of tangogps... I'll clean it up and submit a patch11:58
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RST38hqwerty: Thanks! =)12:01
AStormmmh, new fennec tinderbox builds are much faster :)12:02
AStormand start faster too12:03
Meiz_n810tinderbox buils of fennec?12:04
Meiz_n810where can i download? :P12:04
Meiz_n810fennec repo?12:04
RST38hHehehe, I am going to turn Maemo users into obsessive gamblers!12:10
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qwerty12RST38h, are you really making a slot machine emulator? :D12:11
RST38hI already have one12:11
qwerty12hehe, cool! :P12:11
RST38hJust need to port it from MSDOS to Maemo12:11
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah, - did you zap your filesystem totally and mkfs it and all that?12:16
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: after these yesterday failures i umounted that partition, did mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk1p2, mounted it back and started all over again.12:17
Meiz_n810then it gave me that12:18
Stskeepsmm, and still failed12:18
Meiz_n810btw, i'm now running merimager12:18
Meiz_n810hope it gives me no errors12:19
Stskeepsyeah.. we should make some kind of logging for it. Do you get the console-setup questions?12:19
* Stskeeps tries to wake up12:21
Meiz_n810yes12:22
Meiz_n810(that language setup)12:22
AStormhmm12:22
Meiz_n810i have messed with android, so there might be some problems in my tablet, i remember when i failed installing deblet 17 times, reflashing helped :P12:23
Stskeepshehe12:23
AStormio to rootfs grabs tons of cpu...12:23
AStormafaicr jffs2 uses gzip, which should be fairly fast12:24
Meiz_n810Jaunty universe is almost as big as debians was 2 months ago12:24
Stskeeps*nod*12:24
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah.. go for the reflashing i guess, i can't exactly pinpoint why this should happen else12:26
AStormhmm12:26
AStormno, it's xomap granning tons of cpu12:26
AStormdue to fennec12:26
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: i'am trying one more time...12:26
AStormin background12:26
AStormprobably some Xomap bug or slow scaling or sth12:27
AStorm*grabbing12:27
StskeepsMeiz_n810: else i'll just pack up a tar.gz i guess12:28
Meiz_n810ok12:28
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t_s_onow that was slightly weird, my N800 had powered down over night again, and while trying to get it going again i booted it with the charger plugged in. what greeted me was a continual message, "usb device not supported", as if i had plugged in a usb storage device or something...12:42
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AStormhmm12:45
AStormfunny bug12:45
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: would it be possible to create jffs2 partition to SD and install Mer in it?12:45
Meiz_n810(is there any point)12:46
StskeepsMeiz_n810: no point and it's difficult12:47
Meiz_n810okay12:48
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AStormhmm12:50
AStormdamned "osso rss reader" grabs 100% cpu when it runs12:51
t_s_oseems i may be able to trigger it by booting the N800 using a usb charger on low battery...12:51
qwerty12turn off the automatic scrolling12:51
AStormwhy is that even starting/running when no rss app is on?12:51
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AStormqwerty12, the applet is off12:51
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AStormnot added12:51
qwerty12ah12:51
AStormit looks like it's scheduled or sth12:52
AStormoh yes, it was autoupdating every 1h12:53
AStormdisabled that..12:53
AStormno idea *why* it's on by default12:54
t_s_osoone being user friendly over at nokia?12:55
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: can you compile load-applet? :P12:56
qwerty12RST38h, I'd offer you a fixed deb of tangoGPS but the guy who opened the garage project and posted his maemo port thought he was being cute by uploading the original, untouched tangogps source12:56
Meiz_n810so it would be easy to take scrshots12:56
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: i remember it compiled with no problem on my ubuntu-box...12:57
AStormhmm12:59
AStormXomap has problems with scaling apparently13:00
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AStormso it grabs tons of cpu when fennec is displaying13:00
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AStormactually, when fennec is updating its offscreen image13:01
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: gpe-screenshot is quite good to13:06
Stskeepso13:06
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Meiz_n810ok13:13
Zicupgrade which are proposed by an apt-get upgrade in root are useful or useless? because they are not proposed by default by the graphic updater13:19
Stskeepsusually you should use the AM instead as there's potential for things screwing up horridly else13:24
RST38hqwerty: Heheh :)13:25
RST38hqwerty: Makes me wonder whether his deb is also the "original" one :)13:25
qwerty12RST38h, hehe, no that's legit (done quickly by a dh_make and I'm guessing a dpkg-buildpackage straight after) program wise, just packaging is odd :)13:26
StskeepsMeiz_n810: what do you answer at console-setup?13:28
Meiz_n810Finland, Finland and Western europe...13:30
Stskeepsk13:30
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: Mer imager is almost done installing13:31
Stskeepsgood13:31
Stskeepsif you're on a slow connection where you're at, and you have a linux installation, consider looking into apt-proxy13:32
RST38hCompiled the slot machine. No crashes so fare.13:32
Meiz_n810Phew...13:32
Stskeepsit speeds up things quite a bit13:32
StskeepsMeiz_n810: installing in which sense? debootstrap? :P13:32
RST38hThe problem is I do not see the screen, sshing to a tablet hidden in storage 20 meters away13:32
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: it is all done now13:32
Stskeepswoo13:32
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: without swap, my tablet always crashes when generating UTF-8 locales13:33
* Stskeeps is unpacking atm himself13:33
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah.. those locales :P13:33
Meiz_n810Weird that the problem appears only with UTF ones13:34
Stskeepswell we only generate one, so13:34
Stskeepsen.GB_UTF-813:34
Stskeepswhich is another funny issue for community distributions..13:34
Stskeepsnokia sure has gotten their translation right13:34
Stskeepsand is it copyright infrigement if people remake the .pos with translations? even if they're the only way to translate13:35
Stskeeps(so they look similar to nokia translations)13:36
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lardmanmorning13:36
Stskeepsmorning13:36
qwerty12hi lardman13:36
lardmanqwerty12: any more luck with Qalculate! ?13:36
qwerty12lardman, I have no plans to touch it :)13:37
lardmanok13:37
qwerty12Besides, you're the programmer :P13:37
lardmandid you push the support libs to Extras?13:37
qwerty12No :/13:37
qwerty12I don't have the source packages anymore13:38
lardmanqwerty12: yeah programming is different to arsing about with someone else's package ;)13:38
Stskeepsaw, so i'm not a coder atm? damnit13:38
Stskeeps:P13:38
lardmanqwerty12: no worries, I'll dig mine out and push them13:38
qwerty12lardman, packaging seems fine, but when it crashes with a load of glib errors - I think coding is required ;P13:38
lardmanyeah, I think that's due to our crappy compiler, at least that used to be the problem with it13:39
lardman~lart code sourcery13:39
* infobot whips out his power stapler and staples code sourcery's foot to the floor13:39
qwerty12lart nokia rather :). codesourcery seem on top with their toolchains imo13:40
lardmanhmm, maybe13:40
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lardmanalways used to be very hard to build them13:40
lardmandon't worry, I imagine we'll have something new pretty soon ;)13:40
qwerty12you can get a cs2008 toolchain for scratchbox but the way I got it to work with the diablo sdk is flaky at best13:40
lardmanhope there's a new version of GCC at least13:40
lardmanhmm, might just compile it using OE13:41
Stskeepslardman: gcc 4.2 seems to be used in fremantle sdk13:41
Stskeeps(i think)13:41
lardmangood stuff :)13:41
lardmanhow do we know that?13:41
Stskeepshttp://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/diff-newer.html13:42
Stskeepsgcc-4.213:42
Stskeeps:P13:42
lardmannice, thanks :)13:42
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t_s_ohmm, now thats a interesting page there...13:43
Stskeepsmeh, not so much anymore13:43
StskeepsMeiz_n810, solca: does stlc45xx require firmware? if so, thats -probably- why your wifis dont work .. :P13:44
Meiz_n810ooka13:44
Meiz_n810y13:44
Meiz_n810What modules i should add to bootmanu.conf to boot Mer?13:45
Stskeepsthe usual deblet ones13:45
qwerty12Stskeeps, I thought stlc45xx-cal was for that? (calibration data rather) and solca says he already runs it13:45
Stskeepsqwerty12: it requires firmware blob too i think13:45
qwerty12umac?13:45
Stskeeps.. i'll check13:45
Stskeeps"There is no separate firmware, stlc45xx uses the same firmware as13:46
Stskeepscx3110x/umac combination.13:46
Stskeeps"13:46
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Stskeepsret = request_firmware(&fw, "3826.arm", &stlc->spi->dev);13:47
Stskeepsthat might be why i guess13:47
t_s_oin other words, Stskeeps, the content of said page is outdated?13:48
Stskeepst_s_o: i dunno, but it is rather old and it was quite early they put that list out13:49
t_s_ofigures...13:49
Stskeepsmore interesting is the stuff in SVN13:49
Stskeeps768mb swap partition, 2gb linux partition, rest msdosfs, for internal MMC13:50
t_s_ointernal mmc? bah, i like my two SD card N800...13:50
Stskeepsyeah, me too13:50
Stskeepsbut if there's suddenly 8-32gb inside :P13:50
qwerty12be nice if it wasn't soldered on...13:51
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Stskeepsindeed13:51
* Stskeeps wouldn't mind a two sd-card setup again13:51
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t_s_onot likely to happen tho, i guess13:54
qwerty12Yeah... I wonder who's turn it was to wear the retard cap when that decision was made.13:55
* Stskeeps waits for mer to finish installing13:55
lardmanqwerty12: I can't see why it makes any odds really, except to people who want to boot from the card13:56
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t_s_olifetime of the device ;)13:56
qwerty12lardman, On the N810 at least, there have been reports of it messing up and when swap and h-a-m want to create their files on the internal card only, it makes a lot of difference.13:57
lardmanwell that's a bug in the apps13:57
t_s_oand now i have a suspicion why nokia wont go dual sd again, it makes people uninterested in upgrading...13:58
RST38hah, the conspiracy theories...13:58
RST38hNokia won't go dual sd because nobody needs dual sd13:58
AStormqwerty12, there is actually enough space to solder in mmc card mount13:58
AStormbut would have to exterminate the chip13:58
lardmanRST38h: +113:59
RST38hPeople do need some semidicent amount of storage by default which means Nokia will continue soldering sd cards on board13:59
AStormand mod the case13:59
t_s_oRST38h: nobody needs a internet tablet either, if one wants to go down that path. dont stop nokia from selling them...13:59
qwerty12AStorm, sounds like a bit of work :/13:59
RST38ht_s_o: This one is incorrect13:59
qwerty12RST38h, just sell it with a 2gb card then13:59
t_s_ohow so?13:59
RST38ht_s_o: It has been somewhat of a sought item last Christmas13:59
AStormbtw, my n810 just oom'd13:59
RST38hqwerty: more expensive14:00
RST38hqwerty: more problems to support too14:00
AStormt_s_o, wrong14:00
AStormit's just cheaper to make14:00
AStormand "batteries included" etc.14:00
qwerty12RST38h, true :/. I'm still not a fan of the soldered internal card though, I do think it is a shit idea imo14:00
AStormotherwise, they'd have to include a card14:01
AStormqwerty12, sure14:01
AStormesp. soldering these BGA14:01
lardmanis it a real card soldered in there?14:01
lardmanjust the gubbins I guess?14:01
RST38hqwerty: it is a shitty idea from tinkerer's point of view14:01
qwerty12true :)14:01
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AStormRST38h, why more problems?14:02
t_s_omeh, where is that pandora...14:02
lardmant_s_o: hmm, good question14:02
AStormthe controller and software support is there14:02
AStormlardman, a mmc chip14:03
lardmanAStorm: ok14:03
AStormit looks like a card+mount, but is a chip14:04
lardmanso basically a quick and easy way to add in memory as they don't have space for the slot, etc14:04
AStormafaicr some Samsung chip14:04
AStormnice and tiny14:04
AStormbut, not replacable14:04
t_s_ofrom what i recall reading its basically the internals of a SD card, in chip form...14:05
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lardmanAStorm: nor is the NAND though14:05
AStormactually, it's an SD chip14:05
AStorm(not SDHC)14:05
t_s_oi guess one could solder of the chip and solder on a slot, if one feel like trying...14:05
t_s_oi guess nokia did it this way for a quick and reliable location for their gps maps, so some user would not wonder why the device was reporting no maps, and go scream at the support people...14:07
AStormlardman, well, NAND doesn't look like sd card :P14:07
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AStormthey could put 2x SDHC slot14:07
AStormand larger NAND14:07
AStormthat could fly14:07
t_s_oi think the nand is limited by the omaps controller14:07
AStormyup14:07
AStormwhich is wrong14:07
t_s_oand the sd slots hooked up via usb or something...14:08
AStorm:)14:08
AStormthey could've sold "map cards" :P14:08
lardmanI working on the assumption that there is not enough room in the n810 to put another card slot, therefore they've just stuck in the gubbins as a cheap way to add extra memory14:08
t_s_oor just included a 2GB SD in the box...14:08
Stskeepsyeah, i got a 64mb in my n800 box :P14:08
Stskeepsno complaints there14:08
AStormlardman, there is enough14:09
AStormmore than enough14:09
t_s_oiirc, the internals are just like the N800, they shaved of some size by removing the dpad from the front and shrinking the other buttons, thats all...14:09
lardmanah well14:09
AStormtheres a block of free space around that chip14:09
AStormenough to fit another card mount like the one currently present14:09
t_s_oi suspect that if one put a N800 and a N810 with the back covers off, side by side, it would look more or less the same...14:10
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AStormt_s_o, I still have the naked n810 pics14:10
AStormStskeeps, in mer, please do activate accessx14:10
t_s_o:P14:11
t_s_ogeek porn14:11
AStormfor sticky keys14:11
AStorm(instead of hildon-i-m doing them)14:11
AStormStskeeps, btw, I'm about to build a new kernel14:11
AStormwhat is needed to run new wifi?14:11
AStormumac.ko?14:11
StskeepsAStorm: think solca's a better person to ask about these things14:12
Stskeepsstlc45xx doesn't need umac.ko14:12
Stskeepsbut needs 3826.arm firmware it seems14:12
AStormsorry, my irc is lagged due to 64k and updating kernel git trees14:14
AStormsolca, what is needed to run new wifi driver?14:14
AStormmhm14:15
AStormwhere do I get that?14:15
Stskeeps3826.arm firmware is laying in initfs14:15
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AStormalso, I'll need a fresh Xomap video driver... any easy (read: no sbox) way to build it vs new kernel headers?14:16
AStormgood14:17
StskeepsAStorm: use xorg omapfb driver i guess :P14:17
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Stskeepsno clue if it runs on maemo though14:17
AStormStskeeps, or maybe you could build me a .deb of omap driver vs latest linux-omap headers? :>14:18
StskeepsAStorm: i run typical diablo kernel sorry :P14:18
AStormuhm...14:19
* Stskeeps is looking forward to solca's kexec-enabled bootloader14:19
RST38hYohooooo! Slots run!14:19
AStormI don't have a build env14:19
AStormbecause sbox is horrid14:19
AStormI *could* build it on the device though...14:19
AStormafter moving system to immc14:20
AStormand installing toolchain14:20
Stskeepsokay, status bar applets and home applets, suggestions anyone?14:20
Stskeepshas to be OSS and in extras14:20
Stskeepsi have a-backlight already14:20
AStormStskeeps, it doesn't matter what you're running14:21
AStormonly headers matter :)14:21
AStormyou could build one vs linux-omap git headers, right? :)14:21
AStorm(backup your current headers, obviously)14:21
AStormload-applet14:22
Stskeepsmm, that's true, meiz ported that without issue14:22
Stskeepsok, seriously, " automake-1.7 --add-missing --foreign || automake --add-missing> --foreign14:23
Stskeeps"14:24
Stskeepsi see that in countless files14:24
Stskeepsisn't the > an error?14:24
AStormbtw, kexec is simple enough, but I'm not sure busybox has a tool to use it14:24
AStormsomething would have to be added14:24
Stskeepsyeah, solca's working on it14:25
* lcuk wakes up after his first ever brazilian..14:25
lcuk..meal14:25
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AStormyup, it is14:27
* lcuk ate slices of practically every animal14:27
Stskeepsan error?14:27
Stskeepswhy on earth is it -everywhere- then14:28
AStormbut, it might be some horrible workaround14:28
AStormit isn't ran anyway14:28
Stskeepson automake > 1.7 systems it is :P14:28
AStormohfail14:30
AStormautofail14:30
jaskaautofools14:31
jaska(not you, the software :)14:31
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: is symlink fb0 > fb needed anymore?14:31
StskeepsMeiz_n810: no, i fixed this14:33
StskeepsOption "fb" "/dev/fb0" in xorg.conf14:33
Meiz_n810okay14:34
AStormgimme that mer14:34
AStorma variant installable to immc :>14:35
AStormand yojur build env14:35
Stskeepshehe, if you're thinking of cross-compiler, we don't have one just yet, variant installable to immc.. sec14:35
lardmanAStorm: why is sb horrid?14:36
AStormlardman, it's debian14:39
AStormsb1 requires disabling vm randomization14:40
AStormand I hate packaging for debian14:40
AStormdid I mention I hate .deb?14:40
StskeepsAStorm: grab http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_1.0.10ubuntu1_all.deb , install http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/installer/deblet-installer/usr/libexec/deblet/md5sum in /bin/md5sum and chmod +x it, and apt-get install binutils, .. and then mer-imager-20081207-1339.tar.gz , cd mer-imager-*, sh mer-imager targets/mer-n800-only-fs /YOUR/TARGET/FS14:41
Stskeeps(.. not very user friendly atm)14:41
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, is there wifi in mer?14:43
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: usbnet, no wifi just yet14:43
Stskeepstrying to avoid touching non-OSS things while i build atm14:43
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qwerty12_N800hmm :/ is g_file_storage available? usbnet doesn't agree with my desktop14:44
x29ai read that there is some openmaps app for maemo, is that totally free?14:44
AStormStskeeps, where? on the device?14:44
StskeepsAStorm: yeah14:44
Stskeepswe'll make tar.gz's eventually :P14:44
x29aor am i bound to the nokiamaps/non-free solutions?14:44
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: could you add libgtkstylus and sudo to n800 target?14:44
AStormx29a, maemo-mapper?14:45
StskeepsMeiz_n810: sure on sudo14:45
x29aAStorm: ill check on that, thank you14:45
Meiz_n810k14:45
AStormit can use OpenStreet and Google Maps14:45
AStormand more14:45
lardmanAStorm: I fear we're stuck with it until the tablets use a different format ;)14:45
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: you can probably easily hack up g_serial14:46
Stskeepsi think the .ko is there14:46
AStormehh14:46
AStormlardman, Gentoo on armel anyone?14:46
AStorm:/14:46
qwerty12_N800yeah, shouldn't be hard, i've used it in maemo14:46
lardmanAStorm: no way on Earth!14:46
AStormI just want a new kernel with less "misfeatures"14:47
StskeepsAStorm: slonsomething worked on this already14:47
AStormStskeeps, g_serial is from kernel14:47
lardmanmad people14:47
qwerty12_N800slonopotamus iirc14:47
AStormthe serial gadget14:47
Stskeepsyeah, i know14:47
qwerty12_N800lardman, yeah, compiling on device isn't my cup of tea either :P14:47
x29aAStorm: i guess im all set with http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/travel/14:48
AStormyup14:48
AStormhe failed at building something :)14:48
AStormtoolchain I guess14:48
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: bootmode 4 in rescue menu is g_serial, made the gfx already :P then it's pretty trivial to make one based on usbnet-emergency-telnetd14:48
AStormthat I've already done14:48
AStormah, no, python :)14:49
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, cool14:49
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AStormmeh14:49
AStormuse dropbear14:49
StskeepsAStorm: when he doesn't have usbnet.. :P14:50
AStormemergency-ssh > emergency-telnet14:50
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: https://code.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/usbnet-emergency-telnetd14:50
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: it actually boots straight into hildon now and has advanced backlight, woo :P14:50
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, hehe, nice work!14:51
Stskeeps(though only when console is activated, hmm. :P)14:51
AStormStskeeps, how can he not have usbnet?14:51
qwerty12_N800but load-applet or nothing :P14:51
AStormg_ether14:51
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: compiling that right now14:51
qwerty12_N800AStorm, one day; it worked with my desktop, the next day ; not14:52
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, woot14:52
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Meiz_n810Maemo packages conflict with epiphany-webkit and gdm :(14:52
AStormheh14:52
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah.. i haven't touched outside packages just yet14:52
zpolhola14:52
Stskeepsthe big sinner is gnomevfs214:52
Stskeepsand apt for being silly14:53
Meiz_n810yep14:53
Stskeepsdoes it boot into hildon?14:53
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: load-applet hereby brewing14:56
qwerty12_N800whee :)14:56
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Stskeeps(#merbuilder on jaiku, warning, a lot of traffic.)14:57
qwerty12_N800perhaps fiferboy's large-statusbar-clock or the statusbarclock if you like analog clocks? (both in extras)14:57
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Stskeepsmm, that'll have to be queued, don't have alarm framework yet15:02
Stskeeps(large-statusbar-clock)15:02
qwerty12_N800ah. i dunno if anyone uses its alarm feature :)15:03
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Stskeepsbut anyway, it seems like the stuff is stable enough to start putting stuff on top of now15:03
Stskeepsstill some APIs missing obviously15:04
Stskeepsand contents of control panel. :P15:04
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Stskeepsshould probably port osso-xterm..15:05
qwerty12_N800oh, if you do compile control panel (dunno if it's been done), include yerga's fullscreen patch15:06
Meiz_n810i'll try to make kourou work :)15:07
AStormmhm15:08
AStormand xchat15:08
AStorm:)15:08
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: already done15:08
qwerty12_N800cool15:09
Stskeepsdont really have any contents of it though15:09
qwerty12_N800AStorm, +1 :)15:09
AStormdon't forget to grab ukeyboard too15:10
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AStormmeh, 64k + git = 10h dload15:14
AStorm:>15:14
Stskeepshehe15:15
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lardmanhmm, can I save long long data in an sqllite database?15:21
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AStormsure15:22
lardmanas INTEGER, or as TEXT?15:22
AStormyou can have even larger numbers15:22
AStormsqlite stores all as text, so...15:22
AStormdoesn't matter15:23
lardmanhmm, it can store real & integer data in binary form now15:23
AStormINTEGER conversion will cut to 64b on most wrappers15:23
lardmanok, so all as text then will be easiest15:23
AStormbut e.g. not in python sqlite wrapper15:23
lardmanactually I probably only need 64bit15:23
AStormfor what?15:24
lardmanUPC number15:24
AStormmay I remind you to change transaction mode15:24
AStormif you're writing a lot of data15:24
lardmanplease do, and tell me what/how too :)15:24
AStorm:)15:24
AStormtransaction in sqlite is expensive, ending it forces an fsync15:25
AStormso, you don't want autocommit15:25
AStormcheck sqlite docs15:25
lardmanok15:25
lardmanright, have to go into town, bbl15:25
lardmanthanks AStorm15:26
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lcukAStorm, do you need a transaction if you are writing a single record at a time15:26
lcukon a single user db15:26
* lcuk thought transactions were only required for bulk operations updating multiple tables requiring concurrency15:26
AStormyou don't15:27
AStormbut you want to disable autocommit then15:27
AStormas it fsyncs on each commit15:27
AStormlcuk, yes15:27
AStormbut sqlite fsyncs its files15:27
AStormwhich is *slow*15:27
AStormyou don't want to do that every query15:27
lcukahhh, this is showing itself currently with firefox updating its good/bad site database15:27
AStormthus, you batch things in a transaction15:28
lcukon linux the fsyncing is taking much longer - i was reading a discussion15:28
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lcukso sqlite stores transaction in memory until ready then blits it out in one go15:28
* lcuk still cant believe he ate chicken heart15:32
Stskeepslcuk: when i was in hong kong they served a whole chicken.. with head15:32
Stskeepsi don't like food looking at me15:32
lcukyeah, that would be disconcerning15:33
lcukthe worst one that i could never try is live fish sushi15:33
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* Stskeeps tries out load-applet15:37
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RST38hGentlemen, anybody willing to look fo15:41
RST38hmghm15:41
RST38hGentlemen, anybody willing to look for slots-related imagery on the Net?15:41
lcukwhat do you mean15:43
RST38hstuff shown on slot machine drums15:43
lcukRST38h, you mean the whole strip of these: http://www.allslotsgames.com/image/slots_work.jpg15:46
lcukhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Golden-Nugget-Slot-Machine-Reel-Strip-Set_W0QQitemZ310103973488QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20081127?IMSfp=TL081127112008r33459#ebayphotohosting15:48
lcukyou would be better starting with individual glyphs for each hit wouldnt you - that way you can arrange them how you want15:48
RST38hyea15:51
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: load applet works without hassle15:51
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, w00t15:52
Stskeepsbest way to reboot.. kill dsme15:52
Stskeeps:P15:53
RST38hNeed this: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/arts-and-entertainment/6910013-slot-symbols.php?id=6910013 but for free15:53
lcukRST38h, go and troll the barroom games available in linux, most will be gpl and most will have assets like you need15:54
lcukor just mock up your own while you wait15:54
RST38hah15:54
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, run-standalone.sh dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="com.nokia.mce" --print-reply "/com/nokia/mce/request" com.nokia.mce.request.req_reboot ftw :P15:55
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: no MCE15:55
Stskeeps:P15:55
Stskeeps(yet)15:55
qwerty12_N800powerlaunch?15:55
Stskeepsnot yet, but it will be there15:55
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gnutonhey guys!15:55
qwerty12_N800skeen, iirc powerlaunch listens to mce dbus commands15:56
qwerty12_N800hi gnuton15:56
gnutonhello qwerty12_N800 ! :D15:56
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: yeah, it has a mce replacement15:56
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lcukhiya gnuton15:57
gnutonHola lcuk ! :D15:57
AStormbroken replacement too15:57
gnutonlcuk: I installed your application (DEB) on my device.. :D15:57
Stskeepsso-so15:57
lcuklets see if i get this right..  gnuton, you found your way here.  hope mapper is going well15:57
lcuk:D excellent15:58
gnutonlcuk: but some time it reboot my device :P15:58
gnutonreboots15:59
lcuk:( thats not good, upgrade your drivers or buy a new graphics card15:59
gnutonlcuk: :P15:59
lcukhow often though?  cos its not right that it dies15:59
lcukmine copes with all sorts and i havent had it crash at all recently (mainly because ive become a user fulltime instead of screwing with it)16:00
gnutonIt happens only few times.16:00
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lcuka few times more than it should16:00
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lcukthe worst part is that i cannot code round it, its not a bug in code from what i or others can see and some machines are perfectly find whilst others are less stable16:01
lcukfine ^16:01
gnuton:(16:02
qwerty12_N800m-vo, hey, you around?16:02
gnutonIt's time for a good shower! See you later..16:02
lcukcya later - but 1 thing, did you like what you saw16:03
lcukmmmmm idea for others, can i make liqbase part of the OS watchdog thing, so if it dies it will be restarted16:03
Stskeepsprobably16:04
Stskeepsbut the interfaces aren't public16:04
Stskeeps.. i think16:04
qwerty12_N800lcuk, run it with dsmetool16:04
Stskeeps(dsmetool?)16:04
Stskeepsyeah16:04
Stskeeps:P16:04
qwerty12_N800:P16:04
lcukthanks, when it comes closer to the time ill look into it16:04
StskeepsliqOS?16:04
lcukno, you are building the OS :) ill just give you a pretty playground for the ui :)16:05
lcuki do like the sound of it the more people say it though :P :D16:06
* Stskeeps is ponders what kind of impact on that being able to royally fuck about with hildon desktop layout will do of possibilities16:08
lcuk"We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical."16:09
lcuk"We can deluge you with a thousand channels or expand one single image to crystal clarity and beyond."16:10
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: think it's possible to inject the tty.py and getpass thing into the .deb so i can stop having to give people .tar.gzs? :P16:10
Stskeeps(i suspect you can actually put it in the bzr directory)16:10
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, i'll do it when I'm on my but i didn't want to cause conflicts between packages :P16:11
qwerty12_N800^computer16:11
Stskeepsyeah, - that's why im saying it is possible to put them other places, i guess :P16:11
qwerty12_N800if it works like that  cool, if not, i'll make a postinst with dirty solutions involving || true's :P16:12
Stskeepshehe16:12
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Stskeepshttp://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-loadadv.png16:18
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qwerty12_N800woot, now all you need is a clock & possibly adv-power (i know, i know ; it's not in extras :))16:20
Stskeepspybattery you mean? :P16:20
Stskeepsor?16:20
qwerty12_N800nah, the General convinced him to change the name16:20
Stskeepsk16:20
qwerty12_N800the thread's title still saying pybattery is a limitation of vbulletin16:21
RST38hqwerty: You reimplemented it in C?16:21
qwerty12_N800no :)16:22
qwerty12_N800I wish :D16:22
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RST38heh16:22
lcukStskeeps, thats amazing :D16:22
Stskeepslcuk: still a long way to go16:24
Stskeepsso, what should be part of Mer base firmware image?16:25
lcukStskeeps, but its emerging16:25
Stskeepsonly OSS things are allowed16:25
qwerty12_N800goatse16:26
Stskeepsnot OSS afaik :P16:27
RST38hhow do you know?16:27
qwerty12_N800it would be a very welcoming background image to replace plankton's one :p16:28
RST38hWeird...More and more people do not know what to do with a .zip file16:28
RST38hqwerty: or maybe you should go with tubgirl...16:29
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: feel free to find new bgs :P16:29
RST38hqwerty: as better reflecting the spirit of open source...16:29
qwerty12_N800hehe :P16:29
qwerty12_N800~curse collabora's pidgin-data package for screwing with gconf and being full of shit16:30
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, collabora's pidgin-data package for screwing with gconf and being full of shit !16:30
RST38hqwerty: Do not install collabora's pidgin16:31
RST38hThey never tested it, and only provide it as a dependency for their own comms stuff16:31
qwerty12_N800RST38h, i was following qole's instructions to get rtcomm working. did dpkg -L pidgin-data, found one useful file so i edited /var/lib/dpkg/status to remove the dependency on pidgin-data data and did a apt-get remove --purge pidgin-data16:32
qwerty12_N80020mb back :)16:33
RST38hOh, never install this crap16:33
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RST38hIf you want pidgin install nix's version16:33
qwerty12_N800yeah, i don't want pidgin though :). their libpurple depends on it :/16:33
RST38hpidgin-data is actually an optional package if you install nix's stuff16:34
qwerty12_N800I can see why, it's just full of pics & sounds. God knows why libpurple for rtcomm needs it...16:35
* Stskeeps queues python-hildondesktop for build16:36
Stskeepsthink that'll make some things easier16:36
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Meiz_n810Mer looks great!16:52
Meiz_n810http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer#16:52
Meiz_n810added some pics16:52
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: how can i change the user that hildon-desktop is started16:53
StskeepsMeiz_n810: so far it's "just root" :P i'll fix it later this week16:53
Meiz_n810ok16:53
Stskeepsyou should post those pics on Jaiku too16:54
Stskeepsand yes, that actually looks better than i expected O_o16:54
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Meiz_n810I posted already =P16:54
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Stskeepshehe, good16:54
Meiz_n810pcmanfm wont work :(16:55
Stskeepsyeah, it's a bit odd16:55
Meiz_n810but it's running in the backround...16:55
Stskeepsgpicview seems to work fine though16:56
Meiz_n810not for me16:56
Stskeepsoh, isn't that the image viewer?16:56
Meiz_n810yes it is16:56
Meiz_n810but16:56
Meiz_n810if i try to open pic it crases16:56
Stskeepsah16:56
Meiz_n810*crashes16:56
Meiz_n810Maybe because root user?16:57
Stskeepswell or just that it's a rather fragile system right now16:57
Stskeepsbut maybe16:57
Stskeepsor problems with gnomevfs216:57
Meiz_n810yep16:57
Stskeepsbut yes, it actually looks quite good16:58
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Meiz_n810yep16:58
Meiz_n810i'll install lxterminal, so i can do something in Mer16:58
Meiz_n810apt-get update takes forever with my great connection speed16:58
Meiz_n810:P16:58
Stskeepshehe16:59
b1ackdeathquick question on porting software for the n810 would it be better to have a .deb file or a tar ball or it really just matters what the dependencies are???16:59
AStorm.deb would be better17:00
b1ackdeaththen its all a mater of the  dependencies17:01
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: you should try compiling some maemo apps i guess17:05
Meiz_n810ok17:05
AStormb1ackdeath, more like, ease of installation17:05
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: for armel or x86?17:06
Stskeepsarmel17:06
b1ackdeathright? and all the tools i would need to port a deb are in the maemo vmware appliance17:06
Stskeepscompiling on tablet would probably be painful but possible :P17:06
AStormb1ackdeath, yes17:06
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: ok17:06
AStormin scratchbox17:06
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b1ackdeathhas anyone looked at the extented battery for the n81017:11
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: is it possible to add lancode repo and install diablo 12pt themes?17:25
Meiz_n810:L17:25
StskeepsMeiz_n810: im not sure we have the same icons and stuff. Maybe?17:25
Meiz_n810I'll try :P17:25
Meiz_n810when all this build stuff installs first17:26
qwerty12_N800Meiz_n810, it's probably easier just editing the gtkrc of your favourite theme to change sizes17:26
Meiz_n810qwerty12_N800: size was not the biggest point... I want to try other themes too17:27
qwerty12_N800meh17:27
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nikosapiMight someone know why my n810 isn't booting past the initial "Nokia" screen? It doesn't even get to the loading progress bar...17:30
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Stskeepsnikosapi: time for a reflash, i assume you've tried pulling the battery?17:31
nikosapiI tried re-flashing the kernel and the initfs and still nothing :(17:31
Stskeepshmm :P17:31
nikosapiStskeeps: many, many times :(17:31
nikosapiI don't really want to lose all my data... When you do a full flash, what else happens besides the kernel, initfs and rootfs images getting copied to the device?17:32
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Stskeepsrootfs usually contains your data, it doesn't zap your internal MMC though17:33
nikosapiright, so I don't think it even comes in to play this early in the boot process, right?17:34
mavhcyour my docs is gone17:34
Stskeepsnikosapi: if it shows nokia logo and you can reflash kernel and initfs, it's probably not all hosed, just your rootfs17:34
nikosapioh..17:34
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nikosapiis there any way to debug this?17:34
Stskeepsi sadly don't have a n810, else i could have given you an initfs that would allow you to pull out your files :P17:34
nikosapiooo, how does that work?17:35
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Stskeepswell if you had fanoush's bootmenu and installed usb telnetd, you could telnet in through usb and copy your files to mmc17:36
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, initfs images don't differ according to model :P17:36
Meiz_n810i have n81017:36
^Tux^I think what Sts is sayin is.. buy him an n810 and he'll fix your shit17:36
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: :P17:36
^Tux^haha ;)17:36
Stskeeps^Tux^: there's a n810 at work i can play with if i wanted to17:36
Meiz_n810^Tux^ :p17:37
woglindehi17:37
qwerty12_N800best i can give is an initfs that gets ur lock code :p17:37
qwerty12_N800hi woglinde17:37
nikosapiWhat if I booted it off of an SD card? Then could I access the data on the internal memory?17:38
qwerty12_N800yep17:38
RST38hHehehe: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/07/brit_isps_censor_wikipedia/17:38
nikosapigreat, now I just have to figure out how to do that :P17:38
Stskeepsnikosapi: but this requires a bootmenu which you dont have installed atm :P17:38
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, you can set root device via flasher17:38
Stskeepstrue17:38
nikosapiyup, --set-root-device17:38
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: but kernel doesn't have ext2/ext3 in kernel.17:39
Stskeeps:P17:39
Stskeepsso17:39
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, linuxrc has code for insmodding17:39
Stskeepsyeah, i know17:39
Stskeepsah17:39
Stskeepstrue17:39
Stskeepsi'm being an idiot17:39
* Stskeeps goes do homework17:40
qwerty12_N800nikosapi, mkdir /mnt/intfs ; mount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock4 /mnt/intfs17:40
nikosapiomg omg omg, it booted!!!17:40
nikosapiwtf17:40
nikosapi20 minutes later17:40
nikosapinow what would cause a 20 minute boot delay?17:41
mavhcdid you install vista on it?17:41
Meiz_n810lol17:41
nikosapihahah, yes but I'm using ReadyBoost(tm), I thought that should speed things up17:42
nikosapicrap, now it's frozen :S17:42
mavhcssh?17:42
Stskeepsnikosapi: you probably want to install fanosh bootmenu to be able to rescue your data in the future17:42
glass_readyboost takes time to get into action..17:42
glass_ah that was the other thing17:42
glass_silly me17:42
nikosapiok, now it un-froze itself in a wave of menus popping up and notifications.17:43
nikosapitime to back up17:43
nikosapidoes rd mode disable that watchdog timer which reboots the device if it's unresponsive for too long?17:45
glass_i think so(not sure)17:45
glass_hmm17:46
glass_i should just shut up and go get some sleep17:46
Stskeepsnop, thats another setting i think17:46
nikosapioh, I'll look into that17:46
nikosapi--set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset17:48
AStormdoesn't work17:48
AStorm:P17:48
AStormchecked that17:48
AStormthis one is for cpu hang17:49
AStormwhich is hard to make17:49
qwerty12_N800no-lifeguard-reset stops dsmetool from rebooting the device if it couldn't start something or if something ran by it is killed17:49
AStormyup17:50
AStormand there's also omap watchdog17:50
AStormand a watchdog of the rtc chip17:50
AStormthe last one is the one usually restarting things17:50
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Meiz_n810WTF?18:01
Meiz_n81020min ago jauntys universe was 4800kb18:01
Meiz_n810now only 3600kb18:02
Stskeepsheh18:02
Stskeepscompressed?18:02
Meiz_n810maybe .gz/.bz218:02
Meiz_n810it's compressed, but it might be .bz2 now18:02
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: if the theme chooser don't work how can i change theme?18:05
Meiz_n810in mer18:05
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah, that's the problem :P18:09
Stskeepsedit start-hildon i think18:09
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Stskeeps(/usr/bin/start-hildon)18:09
Meiz_n810ah18:09
Stskeepsbrb shop18:10
Meiz_n810at least it works for matchbox...18:10
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Ro9u3oRim trying to get my n800 to take a charge from the usb.  can someone walk me thru it18:35
qwerty12you don't.18:35
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qwerty12You could try a http://europe.nokia.com/A4317011 but that uses the charger socket18:36
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: should i try to build some packages from extras or..?18:40
Stskeepsyeah, if you'd like to18:40
Stskeepsand talk about some of the build dependancies you run itno18:41
Stskeepsthat are missing18:41
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Meiz_n810powerlaunch needs libconic0-dev18:41
Stskeepsyeah, i was working on that one18:41
Stskeepsfocusing on homework atm :P18:41
Meiz_n810k18:41
Stskeepstry some of the "normal" apps18:42
Meiz_n810what about mplayer?18:42
Stskeepscould try18:43
Stskeepsis it a source package?18:43
qwerty12mplayer source is in extras18:43
Stskeeps k18:44
StskeepsMeiz_n810: it possibly works like crap though performance wise, but we should give it a try18:45
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ssvbStskeeps: :)18:47
Stskeepsmm?18:47
ssvbwhat makes you think so?18:47
Stskeepsssvb: we're having fb update mode auto and a new xorg omapfb driver..18:47
Stskeepsnothing against mplayer, i'm sure it's fine18:47
ssvbfb update mode auto is probably very slow18:48
Stskeeps.. as i just said18:48
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ssvbi see, does new xorg omapfb driver not support manual updates?18:48
Stskeepsomapfb doesn't do manual updates just yet, at least as far as i could see when i ran it18:48
ssvbyes, and it has quite nonoptimized, xv which is cpu hungry18:49
Stskeepsbut for our purposes right now it's better than xomap :P18:50
ssvbwhat are your purposes?18:50
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Stskeepsssvb: the whole maemo-reconstructed proof of concept distribution, Mer18:52
Stskeeps(i would love a xorg omap with manual updates.)18:52
ssvbI mean how does it affect xomap vs xorg omapfb issue?18:52
ssvbboth are fully open source18:52
ssvbxomap is only based on older version of xorg18:52
Stskeepsssvb: xomap doesn't really compile that well together with newer xorg header18:53
Stskeepss18:53
Stskeepsin any case, it works for us atm :P18:53
Stskeepslooking forward to it improving, looks like there's quite a lot of activity on it18:54
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ssvbi hope they will not drop it halfway :)18:54
Stskeepselse nokia would obviously need something for their devices as they're dropping xomap too18:55
ssvbi would really like to see all the good stuff from xomap ported to the recent upstream xorg18:55
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Stskeepsssvb: so you did the mplayer bits for 770/n8x0 since you woke up so abruptly by anyone claiming it would be slow? ;)18:58
ssvbyes, more or less19:01
ssvbbut I dropped its support more than half a year ago19:01
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Stskeeps*nod*19:02
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ssvbI just though that somebody would want to take over its maintainance :)19:02
Stskeepswell it works quite well, i guess :P19:02
ssvbit needs to be upgraded to the latest upstream release19:03
Meiz_n810What is the command for automatical build-depends install?19:03
ssvbi also tried pushing ARM performance patches upstream, but only roughly half of them reached it yet19:03
qwerty12Meiz_n810, apt-get build-dep <package you want builddeps for>19:03
StskeepsMeiz_n810: for extras packages i dont really think there is one.. dpkg-buildpackage will show you whic19:03
Meiz_n810ok19:03
Stskeepsyou're missing19:03
ShadowJKssvb, anyone objected to the arm patches?19:04
ShadowJKI guess they'd mostly been libswscale or libavcodec stuff19:04
ssvbShadowJK: it's a long story19:05
ShadowJKwhen you say "nonoptimized xv", I sure hope it isn't doing colourspace transform in CPU or something silly like that19:07
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Meiz_n810Mediabox built with no problem19:08
Stskeepssounds good, does it run? (no sound probably)19:08
Meiz_n810sec19:08
Meiz_n810mytube built too :)19:09
Stskeepsyou building them on tablet i assume?19:12
Meiz_n810yes19:12
Meiz_n810mediabox wont install :(19:12
Stskeepswhat errors?19:13
Meiz_n810wait19:13
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^Tux^"Aiee Penguin on the SCSI-bus"19:14
^Tux^?19:14
^Tux^:P19:14
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: mediabox: Dependency is not satisfiable: python2.5-runtime19:24
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Stskeepshmm.19:24
Stskeepsmaemoism19:24
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Stskeepsedit debian/control, depend on python2.519:25
Meiz_n810ok19:25
Meiz_n810I also built tablet-hw-n8x0-nonfree from deblet repo :P19:26
Stskeepshehe :P19:26
Meiz_n810i wanna see if wifi works19:26
Stskeepsno clue if they work19:26
Meiz_n810why not?19:26
Stskeepsneed cx3110x too19:26
Meiz_n810umac module?19:27
Stskeepsis in initfs19:27
Meiz_n810make_repo built and installed cx3110x-umac automatically :)19:28
Meiz_n810well, it did not install, but build19:28
Stskeepshehe19:28
Stskeepswifi probably works with /etc/network/interfaces.19:29
Meiz_n810nm-applet?19:29
Meiz_n810i opened my wifi for android...19:29
Stskeepsor nm-applet could work too19:29
Meiz_n810should work19:29
Stskeeps(start-hildon)19:29
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pupnik_these toys that don't quite get released before christmas drive me nuts19:43
pupnik_N810, Pandora19:43
Meiz_n810n810?19:43
pupnik_well - which don't ship19:44
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Meiz_n810k19:44
* Stskeeps will look forward to having his tablet when going home for xmas. :P19:46
StskeepsMeiz_n810: helped?19:46
Meiz_n810mediabox? yes19:46
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Stskeepsit worked?19:46
Meiz_n810but mplayer is not available yet19:46
Stskeepsyeah, obviously19:46
zakkmdoes about:config work on microb?19:47
Stskeepsdid you get th interface?19:47
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: what?19:47
StskeepsMeiz_n810: mediabox, did the interface come up? :P19:47
Meiz_n810It depends on mplayer19:47
Stskeepsah19:47
Stskeepsfair enough19:47
Meiz_n810maybe i'll force it and try anyway :)19:48
Stskeepsalso a possibiliy19:48
Meiz_n810moblin-media would be cool19:48
Meiz_n810it conflicts with maemos packages :(19:48
Stskeepsmm19:49
zakkmforce it :P19:49
Meiz_n810moblin-media?19:49
zakkmyeah19:49
Meiz_n810i don't think so :P19:49
zakkmhey moblin19:50
zakkmi heard of that19:50
zakkmit works on the nokia?19:50
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Meiz_n810ubuntu-MID should work now (including moblin pankages)19:50
Stskeepspancakes?19:51
Stskeeps:P19:51
Meiz_n810*packages19:51
zakkmwhats the worse that can happen if you force a package?19:51
Stskeepszakkm: apt stops working.. :P19:51
Meiz_n810system will not boot19:51
zakkmits called make a backup first19:51
zakkmwhat if it does work?19:51
tulkastaldothe world will be destroyed in a ball of hellfire19:51
zakkmit might conflict withlike one line of coding19:51
Meiz_n810last summer, i added debian repos to chinook and my tablet did not boot after i installed something19:52
Stskeepshehe19:52
Meiz_n810<--- idiot19:52
StskeepsMeiz_n810: but yeah, i'd like to see if mediabox interface works, could be interesting19:52
zakkmthats debian though ;p19:52
zakkmdoes moblin work on nokia?19:52
Stskeepsif you want to beat your head against the wall, it probably does19:53
Stskeepsubuntu by itself runs so19:53
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: mediabox is designed for 800x480 display, when screen rotated 90 half of it is out of the screen19:53
zakkmhuge price to pay19:53
StskeepsMeiz_n810: your screen is rotated? :P19:53
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Meiz_n810not right now19:53
Stskeepsokay..19:53
Stskeepsso what was the relevance? :P19:53
Meiz_n810but i have tried mediabox rotated19:53
Stskeepsah19:54
Meiz_n810i was thinking about x86 with 1200x800 (whatever) running mediabox :P19:54
Stskeepszakkm: i'm not personally pursuing pure ubuntu on the tablets, as it'll run into same issues as deblet. it's trivial to take the mer imager and make a ubuntu booting from that though.19:54
Meiz_n810zakkm: you CAN use moblin software, just install ubuntu19:55
zakkmlol19:55
zakkmew no19:55
zakkmim a mac user19:55
zakkmmy linux days are over, as far as desktops are concerned19:55
Meiz_n810i mean install ubuntu to your n8x019:55
zakkmoo19:56
zakkmhate ubuntu19:56
zakkmto me it was either gentoo or arch19:56
zakkmnever did like ubuntu or debian for that matter19:56
Meiz_n810It's the only way to use moblin for now :P19:56
zakkmi wanna use my n800 more like idk19:56
zakkmmaemo is too slow for what i want it for i guess19:57
zakkmso i thought alternatives.. maybe19:57
zakkmi love maemo, i just wish it was faster lol19:57
Stskeepsdid you ever manage to get deblet going? :P19:57
zakkmand please no, use links not microb.. :P19:57
x29ayay, gentoo19:58
zakkmno, i chose gtk remember19:58
Stskeepsah19:58
zakkmand i couldnt type, for a user so it failed19:58
zakkmi decided not to do it again19:58
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: is h-i-m working ?19:58
StskeepsMeiz_n810: not yet19:58
StskeepsMeiz_n810: well. ok, i didn't test19:58
StskeepsMeiz_n810: does Midori install?19:58
zakkm;o19:58
Stskeeps(im not even sure its built yet)19:58
zakkmmidori on nokia?19:58
Stskeepsyeah, i had midori in deblet19:58
Stskeepsit was fucking speedy19:58
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: midori is in deblet repo?19:58
Meiz_n810i have used it in ubuntu19:59
zakkmused on gentoo, desktop19:59
Stskeepsno, maybe it is in ubuntu repo19:59
zakkmis it good on nokia? vs microb?19:59
Stskeepsyeah19:59
zakkm;o19:59
Stskeepsmicrob could go home and shoot itself, so fast it was19:59
zakkmwhy dont they switch then19:59
Stskeepsmore plugins for microb, dunno19:59
zakkmwhat plugins lol19:59
zakkmadblock?19:59
zakkmspellchecker?19:59
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: i have used midori in jaunty, but it is not available anymore if it never was...20:00
Stskeepsk20:00
Stskeepsi guess we'll have Tear as browser possibly20:00
Stskeepsuses webkit too20:00
Meiz_n810teasr sucks20:01
Meiz_n810on maemo20:01
Stskeepsmm how come?20:01
Meiz_n810it is worse than IE720:01
Stskeeps.. not a reason, why?20:01
Meiz_n810itT looks like a bunch of crap20:01
Stskeepsit always does that20:02
Stskeeps:P20:02
Meiz_n810well it is usable somehow20:02
Meiz_n810i'll test h-i-m in a minute20:02
Stskeepsyou might need some stuff i told qole on a post somewhere though20:02
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: Midori is available in deblet repo :P20:04
* Meiz_n810 is installing it20:05
zakkmshould be in maemo :D20:06
Stskeepslets see if it runs :P20:07
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Meiz_n810it runs20:07
Stskeepsawoo20:07
Meiz_n810i have tried20:07
Stskeepsscrshot :P20:07
Meiz_n810wait20:07
Meiz_n810*installng*20:08
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Stskeepsoh, i thought you meant it ran on mer :P20:08
Meiz_n810i'll try it in a minute20:08
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* Meiz_n810 boots to Mer20:11
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lardman|away~curse 100 fold the person who pretty much blocked my garage20:17
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, 100 fold the person who pretty much blocked my garage !20:17
lardman|awayhmm, that hasn't made me feel much better20:18
*** lardman|away is now known as lardman20:18
RST38hlardman: that is when you really need a Huge Deadly Laser20:18
qwerty12~burn 100 fold the person who pretty much blocked lardman's garage20:18
* infobot pours gasoline all over 100 fold the person who pretty much blocked lardman's garage, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze20:18
lardmannice :)20:18
qwerty12lardman, any better :)20:18
lardmannow we're talking :)20:18
qwerty12hehe :D20:18
lardmanthanks20:18
lardmanRST38h: yes laser would help the burning :)20:18
RST38hGentlemen (and an ocassional lady in disguise), fMSX 3.5.4 is in Extras for your consumption now.20:21
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t_s_osomeones being productive20:30
disco_stu~kde20:30
infobotThe next major revision of KDE -- KDE 4.0 -- will be released when it's ready, not before. We don't know when that will be, despite the dot article. It will most likely be in 2007 or 2008, but it could be later.20:30
t_s_ooO20:31
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gnutonwhat´s the status of the GBA emulator in maemo?20:42
qwerty12_N800gnuton, RST38h 's one, VGBA, is very good20:43
gnutonqwerty12_N800: Ok. I'll try to install it.20:44
RST38hgnuton: it works.20:45
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gnutonRST38h: okay..20:48
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Meiz_n810SCRSHOTS!!!!20:50
Meiz_n810http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer#20:50
Meiz_n810Midori works!20:51
disco_stusomeone knows that if clonning os to sd makes rotation stop working ?20:51
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: woo :)20:52
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: bt and nm-applet still not work20:52
Stskeepsyeah, it takes a bit of bashing20:52
Meiz_n810But it is nice anyway20:52
Stskeepsgood great though, we're moving along :)20:52
Stskeepswhat wallpaper is it on the last one?20:52
solcahi!20:52
Stskeepslo solca20:52
qwerty12_N800hey solca20:53
Meiz_n810when nm-applet work, i will chat from Mer20:53
Meiz_n810solca: hi!20:53
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solcaim getting off bed and its 12:53 here lol ;)20:53
Meiz_n810:)20:53
StskeepsMeiz_n810: impressive work20:53
Meiz_n810solca: Stskeeps can tell you why wlan and bt don't work in android20:54
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Stskeepssolca: remembered the firmware files?20:54
solcait works for me20:54
Meiz_n810works?20:54
Meiz_n810it works now!???20:54
solcasince the beginning20:54
Stskeepssolca: but the tar.gz people have has the 3826.arm files or? :P20:54
Stskeepsthat the stlc45xx driver loads :P20:54
solcaI dont know why it doesnt work for you though20:54
solcaStskeeps: no that are in the /nit/initfs/usr/lib/hotplug/firmware20:55
Meiz_n810solca: netcfg wlan0 up says no such file or directory20:55
solcahmm20:55
solcathat tells me something20:55
Meiz_n810what am i missing20:55
Stskeepssolca: well then stlc45xx needs somewhere to load from from ..20:55
Stskeeps.. probably /lib/firmware or something20:55
Stskeepsa symlink to the firmware files in initfs20:55
Stskeeps:P20:55
solcaMeiz_n810: can you link that dir to /system/etc/firmware in nitdroid?20:55
solcaStskeeps: exactly20:56
solcathat could be the problem20:56
solcafor Meiz_n81020:56
Meiz_n810okay20:56
solcaas I have a "devel" userspace that I think takes care of that20:56
Stskeepskernel grabs firmware from there? strange :P20:56
solcaStskeeps: kernel not, but androids "hotplug" replacement20:56
Stskeepsah20:56
Meiz_n810solca: gimme that "devel" userspace! =P20:57
Meiz_n810ok, so how can i make the wlan work?20:57
solcaMeiz_n810: its nearly 200MB as it packs nitdroid plus my openwrt experiments20:57
disco_stu~deblet20:58
infobot[deblet] http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet20:58
solcaMeiz_n810: netcfg wlan0 up20:58
StskeepsMeiz_n810: copy 3826.arm from /mnt/initfs onto /system/etc/firmware i think20:58
Stskeeps (/mnt/initfs/usr/lib/hotplug/firmware)20:58
Meiz_n810ok20:58
solcaStskeeps: thx for pointing about the firmware files, didnt think about20:58
solcaStskeeps: Meiz_n810: I think a symlink is better than copy20:59
solcaln -s /nit/initfs/usr/lib/hotplug/firmware /system/etc/firmware20:59
Meiz_n810symlink must be created every boot?20:59
solcaMeiz_n810: just the first time21:00
Meiz_n810i'll try copying first21:00
Meiz_n810ah21:00
Meiz_n810ok21:00
Stskeepssolca: /* you mean21:00
solcaMeiz_n810: I'll modify the userspace to take care about that21:00
Meiz_n810great21:00
solcaStskeeps: nope21:00
Stskeepsno such folder as /system/etc/firmware or?21:01
Meiz_n810solca: have you compiled new kekrnels :P21:01
Meiz_n810?21:01
Meiz_n810*kernels21:01
solcaStskeeps: /system/etc/firmware must be a folder or a symlink to a folder21:02
solcaMeiz_n810: yes I have a new ones with 2.6.18-rc7-omap21:02
Meiz_n8102.6.28 you mean?21:02
solcaMeiz_n810: but are not completely finished as some patches dont aplly cleanly21:02
Meiz_n810can you upload?21:02
Meiz_n810ok21:02
solcaMeiz_n810: yes 2.6.28 sorry21:02
Meiz_n810what about nitchooser?21:03
solcaMeiz_n810: nitchooser will rock!!21:03
solcahopefully21:03
Meiz_n810:)21:03
solcaMeiz_n810: do you copy or make the symlink?21:03
Meiz_n810dunno21:04
Meiz_n810i try first symlink21:04
solcaStskeeps: latest stlc45xx.ko doesnt need stlc45xx-cal tool anymore21:04
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Stskeepssolca: yeah, i saw21:05
Stskeepsfirmware is a different thing though21:05
solcaStskeeps: but for the selector is good news as firmware are already in the initfs21:05
* Meiz_n810 boots to android...21:05
solcaStskeeps: so the selector can use wifi :)21:05
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Stskeepssolca: yeah21:06
solcaStskeeps: I was thinking about the selector downloads some instructions from known distro sites21:06
solcaand install appropriately21:07
solcaor upgrade21:07
Stskeepshehe, yeah, but then we need a supplicant and everything21:07
Stskeepsit's better with a .item system i guess21:07
Stskeepswhat you're searching for is a combination of selector and fanoush bootmenu probably21:07
Meizirkkii get stuck on penguin screen :(21:07
Meizirkkithe ext sd!21:07
Meizirkki:P21:07
solcaMeiz_n810: :P21:08
Meizirkkii always forget21:08
solcaMeizirkki: something is fishy about your sd I presume21:08
Meizirkkii think so21:08
solcaMeizirkki: or my kernel sucks21:08
Meizirkkimy sd is just shitty21:08
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: ping ?21:09
Meizirkkisolca: symlink did not work :(21:10
Meizirkkii'll copy21:10
solcaMeizirkki: wait!21:10
Meizirkkiok21:10
solcaMeizirkki: can you get a shell?21:10
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Meizirkkiyes21:11
solcanetcfg21:11
Meizirkkitoo late21:11
Meizirkkii'll reboot to android21:11
Meizirkkisec21:11
solcaMeizirkki: in other news I finally fixed the keymaps21:12
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Meizirkkigreat21:12
solcaeven the volume keys works21:13
Meizirkkiare you gonna upload new rootfs soon?21:13
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solcaMeizirkki: yes, but I want to fix the wifi thing with you and modify the rootfs21:13
Meizirkkinetcfg wlan0 up worked!21:13
solcaMeizirkki: ok, now dmesg and report the last lines21:13
jagernothello mei21:13
Meizirkkihi!21:14
jagernotwould u like to test boxar new version again?21:14
solcaStskeeps was right, it was not loading the firmware files21:14
Meizirkkisolca: it looks like netcfg wlan0 up rebooted my tablet21:14
solcaMeizirkki: unlikely, maybe is the other bug in action21:15
jagernothttp://www.poojyum.com/boxar/ - a musical instrument for maemo21:15
Meizirkkijagernot: i am trying android now, but i will download latest boxar soon :)21:15
jagernotmei: ah you are so fickle :)21:16
Stskeepsjagernot: hehe, playing with it now21:16
jagernotif anybody else can try boxar that will be nice.21:16
Stskeepsjagernot: you should try lcuk's algorithm for semi-multitouch21:17
Meizirkkisolca: http://pastebin.com/m12d6633d21:17
Meizirkkifirmware loaded21:17
jagernotactually its can already do multi touch (ok sort of) with gtk/gdk21:17
solcaMeizirkki: yes I see, now fire the wifi from settings21:18
solcabut run logcat in the shell21:18
MeizirkkiWOHOO!21:18
Meizirkkiseems to work21:18
Stskeepsjagernot: think if my gf was home i would drive her nuts currently with this..21:18
jagernotSts: is that a good or a bad thing?!21:18
Stskeepsgood for me, bad for her :>21:19
Stskeepsjagernot: you should get some experimental band to play with this..21:19
jagernotwhy is it bad for her u think? she wont like the sound?21:19
Stskeepshehe, yeah, i'm slightly differently audio-stimulated than she is :)21:20
Stskeepsit's quite interesting though21:20
jagernotyeah im already playing with what we call the 'cane toad orchestra'21:20
Meizirkkisolca: i got permission denied when i netcfg wlan0 up21:20
jagernotno record deal yet ;)21:20
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solcaMeizirkki: what logcat say21:20
Meizirkkiit can be done only once per reboot21:20
Meizirkkiwait a bit21:20
Stskeepsjagernot: something about catching pieces of it and repeating could be interesting21:21
jagernotyou mean play something and loop?21:21
Stskeepsyeah21:22
jagernotok havent added a recording feature yet21:22
jagernotbut its not hard to do21:22
Stskeepsthen again multiple tablets could do the trick.. it is an instrument afteral21:22
Stskeepsl21:22
jagernothave you tried throbbing the notes?21:23
Meizirkkisolca: logcat is full of Nos uch file or directory21:23
Stskeepsyeah, playing with that right now21:23
solcaMeizirkki: what does it said before "no such file..."21:23
solca?21:23
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jagernotsounds better with good headphones or good loudspeakers as the tablet speakers are not good for bass.21:23
jagernotthrobbing sounds better with good headphones.21:23
Stskeepsjagernot: must admit, quite good and creative use of tablet i've seen so far21:24
Meizirkkisolca: Received wifi state changed from Unknown to Enabling21:24
gnutonhey RST38h it works fine! :D21:24
Meizirkkinow it is enabled21:24
solcaMeizirkki: can you pastebin the last part?21:24
gnutonRST38h: but unfortunately I've very slow framerate :(21:24
Stskeepsgnuton: if you haven't tried boxar (if you like experimental stuff like liqbase, you should definately try this one)21:24
solcaMeizirkki: does it works now?21:24
Meizirkkimo21:24
Meizirkkino21:24
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jagernotSts: increase the decay time and throb for interesting fx21:24
Meizirkkistill no such file or directiory21:24
gnutonStskeeps: I never tried it!21:25
jagernotSts: and/or lower the throbbing speed21:25
Meizirkkisolca: and netcfg gives me permission denied21:25
Meizirkkisolca: it rebooted21:25
gnutonI'll try... but Now I'm too happy to have the pokemon on my N810! :D21:25
solcaMeizirkki: ok, so this time try this:21:25
gnutonSo I know how spend my time in metro! :P21:25
solcaget in with a shell, netcfg wlan0 up, logcat21:26
solcathen enable wifi in the settings21:26
Meizirkkiok21:26
Meizirkkiok21:26
MeizirkkiWTF?21:26
Meizirkkiit's almost reboot loop here21:26
solcaMeizirkki: battery is empty?21:28
Meizirkkino21:28
gnutonemulator freezed :(21:28
Meizirkkicharger is in21:28
solcaok21:28
Meizirkkimight be that21:28
Stskeepsjagernot: this so has to be tried with LSD involved..21:29
Stskeeps(kidding)21:29
jagernot:D21:29
jagernotturn on the sway to get a 80s synth roving sound21:30
Meizirkkisolca: wlan0 is up and settings says wireless is on, but it is still not working21:30
^Tux^operator error..21:30
solcaMeizirkki: logcat!21:30
Meizirkkilogcat cries: no such file or directory21:30
Meizirkkiand it rebooted21:31
solcaMeizirkki: :(21:31
Meizirkkii have to go to slee now21:31
Meizirkkisleep21:31
solcaMeizirkki: come on, is early!!21:31
jagernotStskeeps: turn off throbbing, increase note decay to about 5 secs, turn on Sway and play slowly21:31
jagernotStskeeps: you can also change any parameter while the sound is playing for realtime fx.21:32
Stskeepsjagernot: i'm on a n800 btw so , . aren't that easy to do :P21:32
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jagernotSts: i think boxar works better on n800 than n810..i hate opening the keyboard out21:32
jagernoti have a n810 so.. :(21:32
Stskeepsgot a youtube video of using boxar yet?21:33
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jagernotnot yet..maybe soon.21:33
solcaMeizirkki: btw nice video! thx, now we need a NITdroid video with wifi working21:33
qwerty12_N800jagernot, thought about hildonizing the menu? it would save you from having to toggle it21:34
jagernotis a youtube video useful?21:34
Stskeepsoh, there's one21:34
Meizirkkisolca: can you upload your new rootfs and kernel?21:34
jagernothow do u hildonize it?21:34
Stskeepsjagernot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60fqnKS2ymU21:35
Meizirkkisolca: it looks like i wont get it working with these :(21:35
solcaMeizirkki: I'm exactly compiling a new rootfs, but upload last 10min (my connection sucks)21:35
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Meizirkkisolca: it will take at least 20 min here to download, my connection sucks too21:35
solcaMeizirkki: ohh so minimum 30min21:36
jagernotjeez i didnt post this video :)21:36
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solcaMeizirkki: I'll upload it and change its version number in the nitdroid web page21:36
qwerty12_N800jagernot, i'm not the best on this subject (i only learnt how, kind of,  recently) but : http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.1/libhildon-2.0.4/HildonWindow.html#hildon-window-set-main-menu21:36
Meiz_n810solca:ok21:37
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solcaso you can check if there are new versions, btw I think we are close21:37
Meiz_n810ok21:38
solcaMeiz_n810: so you gonna wait or go to bed?21:38
Meiz_n810both21:38
Meiz_n810i can flash firmware on tablet...21:39
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Meiz_n810solca: android seems to crash easier when usb-cable is plugged...21:40
solcaMeiz_n810: really? will try to change some usb parameters in the kernel config, maybe that solves something21:41
solcaMeiz_n810: and how about the fading crash21:41
solcaI have not had any21:41
solcajust reboots21:42
Meiz_n810jagernot: can you give me the download link for boxar21:42
Stskeepsisn't it a lifeguard thing or something?21:42
Meiz_n810solca: it faded then rebooted while i was messing with netcfg21:42
solcaStskeeps: I'm pretty sure I kickstart the proprietary stuff (nitboot) so watchdogs are happy21:42
Stskeepsk21:43
solcaStskeeps: but I don't really know well what lifeguard means21:43
Stskeepswatchdog i guess21:43
solcaStskeeps: I dont think so as flasher have different flags for those21:43
solcaStskeeps: lifeguard had to do with dsme21:44
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solcaif dsme is not happy it triggers a reboot via init21:45
Stskeepsjagernot: think i better not play too much with this or i'll just go even more insane than i already am :P21:45
solcaunless the no-lifeguard-reset flag  is present21:45
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jagernotMeiz: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar/21:47
solcaMeiz_n810: I found another inconsistency with the rootfs and my devel rootfs: wpa_supplicant21:48
solcaMeiz_n810: sorry for bugging you but can you boot to nitdroid and just run a command?21:48
Meiz_n810no i can't21:50
solcaMeiz_n810: ok21:50
Meiz_n810i am 14, i can't say "i'll use my computer until it's 3.0021:50
Meiz_n810that's the problem :(21:51
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Stskeepsand that's why you don't, and go there when your parents are asleep, and run up a 1200 euro phone bill21:51
Stskeepson 64kbit isdn modem21:51
Stskeeps:P21:51
Meiz_n810:PP21:51
Stskeepshey, look where it brought me21:51
Stskeeps:P21:51
Meiz_n810:P21:51
Meiz_n810i should stop chatting in shower21:52
solcaStskeeps: ;P21:52
Meiz_n810i can break my n81021:52
disco_stuyes you do21:52
Stskeepsn900 better be waterproof.21:53
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, ha :p. my parents were hating me for running up  a £30 one on 33.6k :p21:53
* disco_stu hopes n900 can be mind controlled21:53
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: .. it took ~6-7 years before i admitted it wasn't a linux malfuncion21:53
disco_stuStskeeps: LOL !21:54
Stskeeps(to my defense, i did have to pay it off in working with newspapers)21:54
disco_stu30 isnt that much21:54
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, hehe... i'd never have had been able to say that in the 1st place (avid windows user :/) :p21:54
qwerty12_N800disco_stu, yep, but to my parents... :p21:55
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i was dual booting into linux and it was magically connecting to the net even without me asking .. :P :P21:55
disco_stuqwerty12_N800: that was a lesson you'll never forget21:55
qwerty12_N800lol :D21:55
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: iam living in the middle of forest, the nearest bus-stop is  >10km away21:56
StskeepsMeiz_n810: and your dad has a shotgun if you think of running from the bill :P :P21:56
Meiz_n810i have fastest internet connection it is possible to get here21:57
Meiz_n810:P21:57
Meiz_n810haha:P21:57
disco_stuMeiz_n810: what do you have ?21:57
disco_stu3g or something like that ?21:57
Meiz_n810512kb ADSL21:57
qwerty12_N800Meiz_n810, tell your local government that you will burn the trees if they don't make efforts to get better internet :p21:57
Meiz_n810:PP21:58
qwerty12_N800Meiz_n810, ouch... i used to have 256.. 4 hours per psp iso :/21:58
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: Luckily he does not have :)21:58
* Stskeeps was just happy that the huge phone bill caused the isp to give us flat rate as some of the first in the country21:58
Stskeepsand later adsl21:59
* solca did something stupid: flash a fiasco image without the --flash-only=kernel parameter !!!21:59
qwerty12_N800shit!21:59
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disco_stuqwerty12_N800: do you know how to customize bootorder in boot menu ?21:59
GeneralAntillesdisco_stu, pong.21:59
Stskeepssolca: :(21:59
qwerty12_N800disco_stu, deblet's initfs?22:00
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: hi buddy22:00
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disco_stuqwerty12_N800: no, os clonning22:00
qwerty12_N800solca, better off extracting first :/22:00
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qwerty12_N800disco_stu, oh, you just edit bootmenu.conf and move the items around and change the number in front e.g MENU_1_ID= etc22:01
solcadamn I have some useful thing there plus all my customization work is lost :( wua wua22:01
qwerty12_N800disco_stu, if you've already flashed initfs, you can remount it readwrite and edit bootmenu.conf directly22:02
qwerty12_N800in diablo22:02
disco_stummm22:02
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: saw meiz's new screenshots?22:02
disco_stui clonned the os22:02
disco_stuhavent done anything else22:02
disco_stu"mount initfs" ?22:03
qwerty12_N800hrm, have you flashed fanoush's bootmenu?22:03
disco_stuyeah22:03
disco_stuit flashes with it when os clonning22:04
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, no, way too much scrollback for me to care today. :P22:04
qwerty12_N800disco_stu, do you want to move the items around in the menu?22:04
disco_stuaha22:04
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hehe22:04
disco_stuyes22:04
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer22:04
qwerty12_N800disco_stu, as root, run : mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs22:05
GeneralAntillesInteresting22:05
Stskeepswe're moving ahead nicely :)22:06
qwerty12_N800disco_stu, then you can use vi (or whatever) /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.conf and change the MENU_X numbers etc and run mount -o remount,ro /mnt/initfs when done22:06
RST38hwhat is that fm?22:06
disco_stuqwerty12_N800: thanks man22:07
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: That MID launcher is kourou, but i have never been able to start it22:07
Stskeepsah22:07
Stskeepswhat's the question circle applet?22:07
Stskeepsquestion bulb22:07
qwerty12_N800RST38h, pcmanfm22:07
Stskeepssomeone should hildonize that22:08
Stskeeps:P22:08
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, go on :p22:08
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i'm busy enough fighting with the base system :P22:09
qwerty12_N800hehe22:09
Meiz_n810It doesn't look bad22:09
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* Meiz_n810 is trying out the latest boxar22:15
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Stskeepslo r2d2rogers22:17
r2d2rogershowdy Stskeeps22:17
RST38hqwerty: wanna! wanna!22:17
r2d2rogersI was hoping you were on22:17
RST38hqwerty: Please? A short recompile?22:17
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: I findmyself with two 770s, are you at a place to need mer testing on the 770?22:18
Stskeepsyeah possibly, we might have a small bunch of people experimenting with it22:18
Stskeepsi plan to make 770 images atleast, and made space for this in imager and such already22:18
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r2d2rogersgood deal22:18
qwerty12_N800RST38h, i did one, about a year ago after some modifying :/ but I don't have the deb anymore and biggest problem was that I didn't know how to do a right click22:19
r2d2rogersI like the screenshots I have seen22:19
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: i'm even surprised that we're capable of things like meiz have been showing at this stage :P22:19
r2d2rogersdo you have any channels dedicated to the mer project on IRC?22:19
r2d2rogerswow22:19
Stskeepsthis place really22:19
r2d2rogerscool22:19
Stskeepsand jaiku for updates, but i guess you're seeing those22:19
r2d2rogersI followed the channel on jaiku22:19
r2d2rogersyup22:19
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r2d2rogersabout the only thing I have going in Jaiku any more.22:20
Stskeepsis an experiment really.. since there are people from different timezones, we need to keep eachother updated22:20
Stskeepsand microblogging is faster than reading through/writing big portitions of mails22:20
Stskeeps:P22:20
r2d2rogersmakes sense to me... it's just another window in IRSSI for me <G>22:20
r2d2rogersgood point22:21
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* r2d2rogers is digging around the m-r launchpad page22:21
Stskeepsyeah, not much, except in code22:22
Stskeeps~mer22:22
infobotmethinks mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint , http://launchpad.net/m-r , http://jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC , http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ (short summary)22:22
Stskeepsis the primary sources of info currently22:22
Stskeepslemme just make a tar.gz for the shell script imager22:22
r2d2rogers\o/22:22
Stskeepsyou can probably build a 770 imager for that22:23
r2d2rogersawesome22:23
r2d2rogersI need to setup the dev environment again...22:23
r2d2rogersscratchbox...22:23
Stskeepshehe, we don't use sb right now :P we need someone to get sb2 slapped into submission on top of a rootstrap22:24
Stskeepswe build natively, which obviously takes time. but building for i386 too helps on finding errors early22:24
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r2d2rogerswell, with two 770's that won't hurt as bad as if I couldn't use one while compiling <G>22:24
* Meiz_n810 wants to see the nm-applet working22:26
r2d2rogersI figure I'm in the minority in wanting a hardcase on the next tablet?22:28
GeneralAntillesAnybody have any experience with multi-lingual wikis or forums?22:29
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-imager-20081207-2126.tar.gz , look at targets/mer-n800-onlyfs and make a targets/mer-770-onlyfs .. you need "mer-rescue-menu nit-bootmenu-compat kernel-modules-770" included instead of the n800 ones22:30
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Stskeepsto install, sh imager targets/mer-770-onlyfs /your/mounted/fs22:31
Stskeepsyou need to have swap enabled definately when installing.22:31
Stskeepsand the usual binutils, debootstrap, md5sum as on http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/wiki/770Port22:31
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Stskeepsit will do the debootstrapping itself22:31
* GeneralAntilles is a bit worried about the commitment level from people.22:32
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: mm?22:32
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, subforums and wikis just becoming dropboxes for spam.22:32
Stskeepsah22:33
pupnik_time is scarce, GeneralAntilles22:33
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: go for International forum maybe22:33
r2d2rogersgot the instructions, will have to get the other 770 booting from card right?22:33
Stskeepsit often works22:33
r2d2rogersor is this to work in flash?22:33
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: yeah, bootmenu as listed22:33
r2d2rogersgood deal22:33
Stskeepsit does not install to flash (yet) on any of them, and i doubt it will on 770 (mer, that is, bootmenu will)22:33
r2d2rogers::nods::22:33
GeneralAntillesEven if you get enough people dedicated to keeping it clean and up to date initially, they surely wont last forever.22:34
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: wiki is a different thing.. i've had a wiki switch me to danish and completely stop working22:34
GeneralAntillesand, especially in the case of the wiki, since it's separate from the English offering, the English admins wont really be paying attention to it.22:34
Stskeepsmm22:34
GeneralAntillesWe just don't have the critical mass that Wikipedia has.22:35
Stskeepsdanish wikipedia isn't that good either :P22:35
r2d2rogersThe best I've seen of a multilingual community effort lately was the gitisbetterthanx.com site22:35
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: and for academic interest, bzr branch is lp:~mer-committers/m-r/imager22:35
GeneralAntillesBut I don't have any direct experience with multilingual communities22:36
Stskeepsdoes forum.nokia.com do any of it?22:36
Stskeepsor whatever it's called22:37
Myrttican I translate something?22:37
MyrttiI wants to translate something22:37
Myrttigimme something to translate kthxplzbai22:37
Myrttino?22:37
Myrttioh.22:37
StskeepsMyrtti has experience in multilingual communities? :P22:37
Myrttiwell I do translate software and am active in the Finnish Ubuntu community as well as in the international one...22:38
Myrtti*shrug*22:38
Stskeepshow does ubuntu deal with localized documentation/wiki and forums then?22:39
Stskeepsi guess it compares to maemo decently22:40
Myrttiwell, Ubuntu has it's LoCo Council22:40
GeneralAntilleshttp://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14922:40
Myrttihttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams/LoCoCouncil22:40
r2d2rogersStskeeps: should that tar.gz have already had the 770 target file in it?22:40
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: nop, you get the honor of making it yourself22:40
Myrttilocalisation of documentation and wiki is done in teams22:41
* r2d2rogers is a LoCo Team member too, but for a mostly inactive team22:41
Stskeepsjust cp the old one and replace the packages_include22:41
r2d2rogersahha22:41
r2d2rogersthanks ,G>22:41
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: could be a way, yeah22:41
GeneralAntillesNon-English subforums shouldn't be syndicated to the feeds22:41
MyrttiI'm part of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-fi/+members22:41
GeneralAntillesand need to have a decent moderator presence.22:42
MyrttiI see I'm procrastinating filing in hours22:42
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: perhaps if a population wants to be represented they should mainfest themselves in a group and become moderators in that area, and then the forums open based on their translations22:42
Myrtti...22:42
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: like ze germans are doing atm22:43
mavhcI want a fake german translation22:43
GeneralAntillesSelecting moderators is difficult if the people coming in don't typically participate in the English forums.22:44
Stskeepsmm22:44
Meiz_n810apt-get update:22:45
Meiz_n810Fetched 5094kB in 2h1min25s (699B/s)22:45
StskeepsMeiz_n810: mer or maemo?22:45
Meiz_n810i changed my timezone in the middle of it22:45
Stskeepsah22:45
Meiz_n810Mer22:45
Stskeepsit's not still using trac.tspre.org i hope22:45
Meiz_n810?22:45
Stskeepsas in, repositiroy22:46
GeneralAntillesThe moderator's in a non-English forum have to uphold the values of the rest of the forum.22:46
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: depends on your imager22:46
GeneralAntillesAs it reflects on the whole of the community22:46
StskeepsMeiz_n810: true, should be the right one then22:46
Meiz_n810and it is22:46
GeneralAntillesIt's hard to independently verify that that's what they're doing.22:46
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: then again, there's values on iTT? :P22:50
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, humor aside, certainly.22:50
GeneralAntillesCensorship is avoided, free discourse is encouraged, personal attacks are discouraged22:51
r2d2rogersTime to go out an dabout with the family progress as it happens...22:51
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GeneralAntillesI'd worry about a non-English subforum either being too heavy-handed in meeting out punishment, and pruning topics or not active enough, letting the place run rampant.22:52
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: only real way to go with it is have an initial group that volunteers, of the people who are active on both international and national.. and then handle when complaints come in22:52
Stskeepsand agreeing to a social contract or whatever22:53
Stskeeps.. dunno22:54
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: oh, - rescue menu is in place here too, so hold down the home key to activate rescue menu, and select console mode / usb22:57
Stskeepsi have no idea if the omapfb driver works properly on 77022:57
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m-voStskeeps, I finally squeezed out my ideas for how the Maemo SDK should be set up.  Maybe there is something for Mer in it as well?23:00
m-voHere: http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/the-cardinal-sin-of-scratchbox-a-backhanded-stab-at-the-maemo-sdk-and-the-promise-of-a-pot-of-gold/23:00
Stskeepsi'll read up :)23:00
m-voIt's looong. :/23:00
qwerty12_N800m-vo, hi, is the diablo hildon-application-manager branch now in git too?23:01
Stskeepsi'm taking a course on social and collaborative computing these days. those papers are massive.23:01
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m-voI'm slowly changing my opinion about Deblet and Mer, etc... maybe this is the only way to show Nokia what Maemo should be.23:01
m-voqwerty12_N800: yes.23:02
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: hometools depends on python2.5-osso, can i change it to someting that replaces it?23:02
m-voOn gitorious.23:02
qwerty12_N800m-vo, thanks, i couldn't tell it was the diablo branch..23:02
m-voStskeeps: I bet they compress really well. :-)23:02
Stskeepsm-vo: Mer is the way ahead currently, deblet as a project is dead for now.. it's not possible to get sane low power usage out of a desktop system on a mobile device23:03
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Stskeepsand what i'm reading so far in your blog i agree with, had some similar thoughts23:03
StskeepsMeiz_n810: hmm. i'll look into that23:03
Stskeepsm-vo: i agree fully - sb2 should be as minimal as possible. it should only provide handy wrappers for some key interpreters/compilers, and besides that, get out of the way..23:04
Stskeepsand just try to accelerating the rootstrap with native components23:05
m-voStskeeps: Yeah, if you get to the end, it is all pretty simple.  I was afraid the cross compiler needs some major magic, but some -I and -L options seems to be enough.23:05
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m-vosb2 could be much simpler out of the box still.23:05
m-voAnd a lot less specific.23:06
Stskeepsyeah, i think i'll play a bit with that. sb2 seems like a good idea but it does interfere a bit too much in some key areas23:06
Stskeepsit should basically be possible to take whatever rootstrap, slap a acceleration mapping on top, and compile away inside the rootstrap :P23:06
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Stskeepsin deblet we had good experience with simply distccing to a cross compiler23:07
Stskeepsit didn't get in the way and did what it should23:07
m-voThere is also the intersting idea of qemu somehow producing the native binaries on the fly...23:07
m-voQemu as an emulator is probably not very high-tech.23:07
m-voSb2 should basically be a chroot-plus-bind-mounts-without-the-need-to-be-root.23:09
m-voOr we could just all switch to GNU/Hurd! :-)23:09
Stskeeps*nod*23:09
Stskeepsi saw a qemu-arm chroot patch, could have been interesting, if it was possible to intermix native and foreign binaries23:11
Stskeepsdidn't work sanely though23:11
Stskeepsi mean, i'm perfectly happy having a ssh server i can ssh into on my server that's actually running inside a mix native/foreign chroot :P23:11
GeneralAntillesm-vo, is there any chance of the categories updates making it into the next SSU? ;)23:12
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m-voGeneralAntilles: the "next SSU" is a bit of a fuzzy concept...23:12
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* GeneralAntilles is a bit worried that Nokia's already totally done with Diablo.23:13
GeneralAntillesWe're gonna end up with all this work going out the airlock until we get to Fremantle. <_<23:13
* Meiz_n810 boots to Mer23:14
Stskeepshehe, what are you trying out this time, Meiz_n810?23:14
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m-voGeneralAntilles: that is unfortunately a possibility that I don't want to talk about... :-/23:14
m-voI can't say anything at all about releases, guys, sorry.23:15
GeneralAntillesm-vo, yeah, I understand.23:15
GeneralAntillesWell, if it comes down to it we'll just have to get Stskeeps working seriously on the community edition. :P23:15
Stskeepsheh, the only releases that matter to me are tags on stage.maemo.org svn ;)23:16
m-voI don't like that, and we are really suffering because of not having public beta releases, but those are the rules...23:16
GeneralAntillesHopefully Nokia pulls its head out of its own ass before it's too late.23:18
m-voBut, the time from cutting a release of the OS to when it actually hits the servers is pretty long.  So, if I would release the catpo changes now, it would not surprise me when there is a SSU coming out after that that doesn't include the catpo changes.23:18
m-voNokia likes big launch events.23:18
m-voThere was a time when even code names like Diablo were secret... meh.23:19
mavhcis there a long delay because there's lots of testing? or is the release server just a long way to walk to?23:20
Stskeepsprobably a whole production line to get through23:20
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m-vomavhc: haha :-)  No, there is a lot of testing and certification.23:20
mavhcwhat's certification in this context?23:21
m-voSo that we can put all the USB and Bluetooth etc logos on the box.23:21
mavhcah, damn those boxes23:22
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* m-vo mentions in passing that all the good stuff like TCP/IP and the whole web 2.0 stack doesn't need any certification.23:22
Veggenm-vo: That doesn't mean that it could actually be an improvement if it did...? ;P23:24
Veggeneh, couldn't.23:24
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m-voHmm, you mean things like making passing the acid test mandatory before you can call your program "web browser"?23:25
Veggensomething like that? ;)23:25
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mavhcI tried to acid test my n810, now it doesn't work and there's a funny smell23:26
m-vomavhc: not this acid test http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/drugacid.html23:26
mavhcI was just dipping it in acid23:27
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Stskeepsah, if a tablet is usable while under the influence of acid23:27
Stskeepsalways a good certification23:27
mavhcbug 14395: UI too scary when high23:27
disco_stulol23:28
mavhcall too often the needs of hippies, or "stoned americans" as we prefer to be called, are not considered23:28
Stskeepsi suspect boxar would be very useful in an acid test. those are some trippy tunes possible with it.23:28
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mavhcanyway, considering how many tablets the updates screw up, less testing seems bad23:29
Stskeepsmavhc: well, mostly it happens cos of too much tinkering.. and it is impossible to avoid stuff caused by tinkering :)23:30
m-vomavhc: we need more 'real' testing, not more of the artifical testing we do.23:30
disco_stutinkering?23:30
m-voUpdates are pretty perfect when installed on top of unused devices.23:31
mavhcunused devices don't sell, call marketting23:31
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m-vo:-)  Err, I mean, updating a freshly flashed device with SSU works hundred percent, every time.23:32
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GeneralAntillesWell, fix osv and we're basically set update wise. :\23:32
GeneralAntillesRunning out of space when it tries (and fails) to install 20MB of PDFs was the primary cause of update failures last time around23:33
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* Stskeeps would love a simple feature like "Would you like me to backup your rootfs to your MMC card, I'll restore if my updates fail"23:34
l7why are those PDFs included with the updates anyhow?23:34
Stskeepsso it would revert for you23:34
Stskeepszfs snapshots could be neat, if we didn't have so little space in flash :P23:35
m-voGeneralAntilles: fix osv in what way?  Make it more flexible?  Yes, but I would say we need make it easy to avoid osv.23:35
m-vol7: tradition.23:35
l7tradition? that seems crazy23:36
GeneralAntillesm-vo, well, clearly it's hardly an ideal architecture, ;) but simply dropping the preinstalled documentation from the dependencies would've solved 90% of the update failures last time around. . . .23:36
m-voBig corporations are all mentally insane23:36
l7they could just post them on a website23:36
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Meiz_n810qwerty: how can i change fonf size in hildon?23:37
l7oh, well that would be thinking like a sane person23:37
m-voGeneralAntilles: that's what I did...23:37
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* m-vo has a lot to learn about how to implement change in a ig organization.23:38
m-vo"big".23:38
l7how badly does a failed update hurt your tablet?23:38
GeneralAntillesl7, reboot loops last time around.23:38
m-voThe SSU stuff is not really understood well enough by us yet.23:38
GeneralAntillesm-vo, well, then the next round should go a lot more smoothly. ;)23:38
qwerty12_N800Meiz_n810, edit /usr/share/themes/<current theme>/gtk-2.0/gtkrc  and find font sizes in there23:39
* m-vo prefers to stay silent... :)23:39
GeneralAntillesWhen preinstalled failed to configure, it left stuff like ICD unconfigured23:39
l7eh reboot loops sound bad23:39
GeneralAntillesThen, BOOM, ICD doesn't start, and reboot loop city.23:39
Stskeepsbetter than android's robot loops23:39
l7seems like the best thing to do is just boot from SD all the time and keep a cloned maemo system handy23:39
m-voYes, running out of space is the worst thing and it basically means reflashing time.23:39
Stskeepsl7: or having fanoush bootmenu handy..23:40
Meiz_n810qwerty12_N800: what i should try to find there, i have tried font and size, no luck...23:40
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l7can you still charge the battery if you're stuck in a reboot loop?23:40
qwerty12_N800Meiz_n810, search for numbers like 16, you'll see the size next to the font name23:40
Stskeepsl7: well a reboot loop stops after a while afaik23:41
StskeepsDSME makes sure so23:41
Stskeeps.. i think23:41
l7what happens after it stops?23:41
Stskeepszzz? :P23:42
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Stskeepsi usually pop my battery before that though23:42
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GeneralAntillesIt'd be nice if Nokia included a recovery system by default23:44
Stskeepsyeah, it's the most asked for thing in here really23:44
Meiz_n810qwerty12_N800: Thanks23:44
Stskeeps"how do i rescue my files out of my tablet now that it has gone into a reboot loop"23:44
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l7yeah, it would have been nice to to have lost my configuration files because of having to reflash23:45
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: think solca's selector might be an interesting step in the right direction23:45
Stskeepswith both being able to kexec different kernels and having rescue facilities23:45
l7are there any downsides to booting from SD aside from the loss of a card slot?23:46
l7as it stands, booting from SD seems like a huge leap over booting from flash in every way23:46
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GeneralAntillesl7, not even a whole slot, just a partition.23:46
l7yeah, true23:46
disco_stutoday i clonned my os to mmc1 and i think it goes faster23:48
GeneralAntillesIt boots faster, anyway.23:48
Stskeepsdisco_stu: it doesn't have to compress, so23:48
GeneralAntillesAssuming you're not using a crap card.23:48
Stskeepsor decompress23:48
disco_stuwill see if the card can take the job23:49
l7what brand of card is it?23:49
disco_stusandisk 2gb23:49
Stskeepsone thing i definately want to experiment with in mer is "I see you have an internal card, would you like me to move from my constrained space to it, so you can feed me more applications for you to use?" :P23:49
disco_stuand i have a kingston with 4gb23:50
Stskeepsand introducing clippy into the UI.23:50
disco_stunow i have 1gb for appz23:51
disco_stuwich is cool23:51
l7that SD card benchmark linked from the SDHC wikipedia entry is handy btw23:52
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: great idea :P23:52
disco_stui dont want the card to break, and the jffs either23:53
l7too bad it doesn't compare small vs big files23:53
disco_stui do bench with 'dd'23:53
l7ah what settings to you use?23:53
GeneralAntillesdisco_stu, watch out for caching.23:54
l7it seems like dd can only simulate the read or write of one large file23:54
ShadowJKyes23:54
ShadowJKFor use as a system drive the random access speed matters more :)23:54
disco_studd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmblk count=something23:55
disco_stuthat way caching wont do anything23:55
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disco_stubut will erase your car23:55
m-voStskeeps: "Is that a card in my slot, or are you just happy to boot me?"23:56
m-voOuch.23:56
l7with do you use time to measure the speed?23:56
l7s/with//23:56
infobotl7 meant:  do you use time to measure the speed?23:56
Stskeepsm-vo: haha23:56
ShadowJKbonnie++ is nice for benchmarking disks, it really shows how flash's big pagesize hurts23:56
m-vol7: maybe of interest: http://linux-mm.org/Drop_Caches23:57
l7s/Is that a card in my slot/Is that a wet card slot/23:57
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Stskeepsoh boy23:57
l7to reference a really bad thread23:57
Stskeepsthat thread was classic23:57
GeneralAntillesHehe23:58
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l7m-vo: hmm, this is interesting23:59
StskeepsMeiz_n810: where did you get the two moons wallpaper from btw?23:59
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