IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-11-24

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lcukw000t, got portal running00:13
lcukbbnextweek ;)00:14
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RST38hhttp://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/24375710/requiem_for_a_maverick00:23
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Mouseyanybody know a cool new toy i should totally have on my NIT?00:28
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RST38hThis depends on what toys you already have00:30
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mavhcall the cool old toys00:31
GeneralAntillesClearly he should buy more Nokia merchandise00:31
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sp3000RST38h: "Posted Nov 27, 2008"00:33
GeneralAntillessp3000, he's fetching from the future now.00:33
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RST38hsp3000: gazing into crystal ball00:36
GeneralAntillessp3000, you could fetch from the future too, if only you were more awesome. :P00:37
sp3000well clearly I'm doing it right now00:37
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Mouseygah00:43
MouseyRST38h: talk about counting your chickens WAY before they hatch00:43
Oli-n800any serious mobile control programme, instead phonelink? ;)00:43
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Stskeepshmm. Tablet death and "these devices are not hard-wired to self-destruct" and then talking about 770s..? :P00:44
RST38hMousey: not really, more like burying the dead ones from the previous batch00:45
Mouseyheh00:45
RST38hbut give him time, he is known for laying feces on both sides of the road00:45
Mouseywell i find it amusing that soooooo many people, especially in the media are all but conviced he's the fucking second coming00:45
Mouseyi mean, i voted for him, but c'mon, he should really get into office and do some shit before people start writing hymns about him00:46
RST38hMousey: too much humiliation during the last 8 years, that's all00:46
guysoft42hey, i plugged a mouse to my nokia n810 with a female-female adaptor. i got the LED of it on, but it does not seem to be recognised yet, what module do i need to probe to get it working?00:46
RST38hwill evaporate in the first 6 months00:47
Mouseyi guess..00:47
crashanddiesometimes I don't understand why the fuck people have to be middle-meddling-arses00:50
crashanddieWhy the fuck is it such a big deal the council is getting a private email address?00:51
guysoft42does anyone know what i need to do to get that mouse working? the device seems to think its a storage device and says something about a bad filesystem..00:52
sp3000crashanddie: I don't know, but let's talk about PIMs00:52
* sp3000 channels -users00:53
RST38hguysoft: find HID driver and load it00:53
guysoft42RST38h, i thaught it was psmosue..00:53
guysoft42thought*00:53
RST38hshould be, yes00:53
crashanddieyou obviously have a hard time spelling 7 letter words correctly? :P00:53
guysoft42i seem to get : modprobe: unable to parse modules.dep00:54
guysoft42RST38h, ^00:54
Oli-n800use insmod , sweetie ;(00:55
Oli-n800;) *00:56
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guysoft42Oli-n800, where are all the modules? :S00:56
guysoft42/lib/modules is empty00:57
qwerty12_N800/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/`uname -r`00:57
Oli-n800qwerty12_N800, faster one ;p00:58
GeneralAntillescrashanddie! :D00:58
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, is GPLv2 acceptable for your translation?00:58
crashanddiemy translation?00:58
crashanddieoh00:58
GeneralAntillesI see how important it is to you. :P00:59
crashanddiemy translation is offered to the public domain00:59
crashanddieotherwise known as "I don't honestly give a fuck"00:59
GeneralAntillesOK, thanks.00:59
GeneralAntillesWork still fun and exciting?00:59
* lcuk would be surprised at anyone offering any other license00:59
guysoft42Oli-n800, ok. lets ssee00:59
crashanddieyeah, minus getting robbed in the hotel room00:59
crashanddieactually01:00
GeneralAntillesOuch01:00
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crashanddiemy translation is BSD01:00
crashanddie:D01:00
qwerty12_N800hehe01:00
GeneralAntilles<_<01:00
crashanddienha, jk01:00
Oli-n800sooo.. is there any tool for mobile sms sending and contact browsing and similar?01:00
lcuki can offer to translate those options into northern if you are interested01:00
GeneralAntillesOli-n800, only phonelink so far01:00
GeneralAntillesI wish there were a nicely integrated one that didn't suck01:00
lcukOli-n800, sounds like you need one of those mobile phone thingies01:01
GeneralAntilleslcuk, that's the point.01:01
lcukthey let you send smss on the go01:01
crashanddieI saw a northern keyboard was01:01
GeneralAntillesThe same situation I elaborated on a few days ago.01:01
Oli-n800don't laught ;) nobody ported wammu yet?01:02
crashanddiethe escape key was labelled "cock", backspace was "noooooooo", and ctrl + alt + del was "time + for + beer" (locking windows)01:02
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I'm n810-less now01:03
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, what'd you do to it?01:03
guysoft42Oli-n800, does it make sense that the module is not there?01:03
crashanddieit got stolen in the hotel... keep up will ya?01:03
GeneralAntillesOooh01:03
GeneralAntillesOuch. :(01:03
crashanddieI actually fucking regret I never got to writing the anti-stealing daemon with gps localising01:04
lcukso who was in your hotel room01:04
crashanddieone of the maids probably01:04
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, somebody else has been working on it.01:04
lcukcos ive never had any luck breaking into the wrong room (even though ive carded/keyed quite a few in a drunken stuor)01:04
Oli-n800i've no idea, only mod i've been using was g_ether and cx....01:04
GeneralAntilleslcuk was there to get his second N810. :P01:04
qwerty12_N800crashanddie, you'll probably be more pissed to fibd phonehome in extras...01:05
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lcukshurrup gen, its not funny, the missus thinks they are breeding01:05
lcuktheres 3 now01:05
qwerty12_N800*find01:05
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I'm back down to 3.01:05
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, sod a dog01:05
crashanddiewell, not you01:05
lcuki finally have a decent screen on primary though now :)01:05
crashanddiejust an expletive01:05
qwerty12_N800heh :)01:05
lcukits good to touch and not have a mess01:05
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, well, the goodnews is that you can get a new one now that you're gainfully employed, right? ;)01:06
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I'm wondering if I shouldn't wait for the new version01:06
lcukhe can get a new one after throttling the manager of the hotel (if they didnt supply a safe)01:06
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, any news on that?01:06
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, next summer01:06
GeneralAntillesBesides, I bet you can rack up enough karma to net yourself a discounted one. :P01:07
crashanddiefuck that, the karma points going to come and fuck up my mood again?01:07
crashanddiebut yeah, I had a travel insurance and shit, and the hotel should be paying things back01:08
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crashanddieso I should get a new one01:08
GeneralAntillesGood01:08
crashanddiebut well, the n810's GPS is shite, truth be told01:08
crashanddieI wouldn't mind a little update01:08
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, your itT thanks more than doubled your karma. :P01:09
crashanddieseriously?01:10
crashanddiewhat thanks?01:10
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/profile/view/crashanddie/01:10
crashanddieBecause I thanked people?01:10
crashanddieholy crap, 37 karma?01:10
crashanddiewow01:12
crashanddie[Joins fingers in a Mr. Burns manner] Eeeexcellent [/]01:13
GeneralAntilles'course, I picked up 300 karma from that one. :P01:13
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crashanddiecan't believe you actually get karma because people thank you01:14
crashanddiekarma is so ridiculous01:14
lcukhmmm i have no itt thanks01:14
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, is your profile in your maemo.org profile?01:14
crashanddieI should introduce it to the company01:14
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, hey, we might add IRC lines some day. :D01:14
crashanddienha01:14
crashanddiedon't care about that no more01:14
GeneralAntilleskarma is just community participation01:14
crashanddieI'm not an IRC pimp anymore01:14
crashanddieso that ain't gonna help me01:14
lcukok gen, which itt page do i put on my profile01:15
lcukor do i just give it my usernick01:15
crashanddieYou wanna know the sad part of my job?01:15
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lcuknone of it01:15
crashanddieI haven't written a line of code since the 15th of october01:15
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1586101:15
sp3000iow, "sober for 39 days"01:16
crashanddieYou know how during the first few weeks of a new job01:17
crashanddieit's like you're going to AA all the time?01:17
crashanddieEvery meeting you have to introduce yourself "Hi, my name is Sebastian" ALL: "Welcome Sebastian"01:17
guysoft42yay, usb keybaord working :)01:17
crashanddiethough, it's pretty good nobody at work knows my internet moniker01:18
crashanddieI'd be so fucked if they ever found the logs in this channel01:18
* GeneralAntilles sends an email.01:18
lcukwhy01:19
crashanddie(wilx) http://codepad.org/IBMKiiIL <-- does anyone else read "IBM KILL" in that hyperlink?01:19
crashanddielcuk, cuz i've said some pretty fucked up stuff :P01:20
lcukyes, but your noise to unruly signal ratio isnt that bad01:20
doc|homecrashanddie: yep01:20
crashanddielcuk, yeah well, it's not like I'm one of the driving forces behind #maemo or anything01:21
crashanddieI'm just one of the in-house trolls we keep for amusement01:21
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lcukyeah :P but you were bought out in a corporate coup01:23
crashanddieanyway, at some point my manager introduces me to the whole company, he asked me to write a small biography, sent an email to EVERYONE with a biography that had nothing to do with what I had sent him in the first place01:23
crashanddieI get a few replies, one asking "what Open Source projects did you work on, as said in your biography?"01:23
* lcuk is confused01:24
lcuki thought you were there to do security?01:24
crashanddieI am01:24
crashanddieit was just an introduction01:24
crashanddie"err... CarbonPHP? liqbase? Well, to be honest, I did more consulting for liqbase than real work", the bloke replied "never did anything for significant Open Source projects?", I'm quite cross, I reply "I'm very sorry, but I think you'll find liqbase bloody well is a significant project"01:25
GeneralAntilleslol01:26
lcukwell tyvm for support, but even i know in the grand scene liqbase is piddly01:26
GeneralAntillescrashanddie's a poser open source contributor.01:26
crashanddiethat evening, at the pub, one of the guys asks "So Seb, I get the feeling you like to swear quite a bit?" me: "fuck yeah", him: "no, cuz your 'bloody open source project' email was copied to the whole company"01:27
GeneralAntillesAhaha01:27
GeneralAntillesPoor bastard01:27
lcuk:D nice01:27
lcukill check for hits01:27
crashanddieThe thing is01:28
crashanddieYeah, I actually might be an open source contributor poser01:28
crashanddiein a sense, for the past 6 months that's all that I've been01:28
GeneralAntillesWell, there's only one solution for that. Use your remaining 7 hours a day to provide patches to Maemo.01:29
crashanddiewhat remaining 7 hours?01:29
GeneralAntillesThe sleeping ones.01:29
crashanddieI want to sleep a bit01:29
crashanddiefuck it01:29
lcuknothing major on the radar, but there is one hit from google that came to me "liqbase sebastian bloody"01:30
lcuk:D01:30
crashanddiewtf?01:30
lcukheh01:30
lcukjk01:30
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crashanddielcuk, coming down to london any time soon?01:31
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lcuktechnically no reason not to, but missus would moan at me and i cant handle the flack01:32
crashanddiewell01:33
crashanddieif you ever do01:33
lcuki wanna do some travelling before xmas01:33
crashanddiebe sure to hit me01:33
crashanddieI'll be in the south of france for xmas though01:33
lcukyeah will be before01:33
crashanddieI'm taking two weeks off01:33
lcukreally hit you or come for a beer?01:33
crashanddieyou're skinny, you can always try to hit me but you'll probably break your first01:33
crashanddiefist**01:33
crashanddie:P01:33
crashanddieSo I guess I'll be taking off from London around the 16th of december or something01:34
crashanddieand coming back around the 5th01:34
lcukoi big guy01:34
* lcuk would kick you in the shins, knee you in the face then fart on your head before you even get a chance to move :P01:34
crashanddiewhatever ninja kid01:34
crashanddie:P01:34
lcuk:D01:34
crashanddieanyway01:35
crashanddietime to do some PR01:35
lcukyou managed to get a decent holiday already?01:35
crashanddiehow is liqbase coming down?01:35
crashanddieWhat is new, what you working on, what are the next milestones?01:35
crashanddie(yeah, well the whole company is closing down for a whole week, so taking an extra week really isn't a bad thing... It's like company spirit to really bust your nuts off the whole year, but it's complete lockdown for christmas... my coworker takes a whole month off)01:36
lcukahh01:36
lcukliqbase is in pieces :) ive stripped self right back and im trying to decide something, either make liqtile widgetset properly, or drop liqtile and do everything inside sketches (which are already recursive)01:37
lcukive created the core networking and database code01:37
crashanddiepackaging doing fine now?01:38
crashanddieis that fine tuned?01:38
lcuki can now talk either directly over ip at main desktop machine sending streaming strokes and points01:38
lcukyeah - its as smooth as its gonna be01:38
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lcuki just stripped eeverything right back01:38
crashanddiedo you have a testing cycle before releasing to public?01:38
lcukthere were a few things i didnt like implemntionation wise and have to document and deal with better01:39
crashanddieOr do you just release on the fly with a "fuck it I'm just playing around" licence?01:39
lcukyes a very long drawn out one ;)01:39
lcukno, same as before01:39
lcuknice and quiet until it grows again01:39
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crashanddieok01:39
lcukill get things right first, then it will come through #liqbase and then into -devel then extras01:39
crashanddiemaybe you don't want to talk about this in public01:39
crashanddienews from Nokia?01:40
lcuktlaking isnt a problem01:40
lcukno01:40
crashanddieso no big contract, no big talks?01:40
lcukthere is one app i wanted you to see, its nice as well - from a guy called jagernot, hes done his version of pyano with sitar, but its in c and very quick feeling and touchfriendly01:41
lcukno01:41
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crashanddiebugger01:42
crashanddieyou still don't have a phone up there?01:42
lcukeven worse i left it at dayjob on friday - ive been bare all weekend01:43
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crashanddiecock01:43
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Guest69449got a n810 wimax and wondering if anyone knows how to use the key bindings to get to the menus01:53
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GeneralAntillesGuest69449, could you go into a little more detail?01:54
Guest69449yes, using the slide keyboard is there a way to access the menuing system01:55
GeneralAntillesAh01:55
GeneralAntillesI think there is, but I don't have an N810 so I couldn't say for sure.01:55
GeneralAntillesThere's a keyboard applet in Control Panels that has some shortcuts01:55
GeneralAntillesThat might help.01:55
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lcukGuest69449, why cant u use the screen?01:55
Guest69449i can, just lazy01:56
Guest69449wanted to try and config to use just keyboard for all actions01:56
Guest69449its probably running X so maybe theres a default key binding or maybe some01:57
Guest69449has a software tool to overide?01:57
GeneralAntillesYeah, but I'm blanking on the name.01:59
Guest69449would it be on maemo.org?02:00
GeneralAntillesProbably, but not sure.02:01
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Guest69449g2g, thank...i'll check around more...g.02:05
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monarchhello all02:13
GAN800Hi02:13
bef0rdhola02:14
l7heya02:16
l7does anyone here have an iphone or ipod touch?02:16
monarchhow is it going tonight?02:16
monarchany devs work with ssl on here now?02:16
crashanddiel7, wrong channel02:16
l7crashanddie: actually i'm interested in a comparison02:17
crashanddieshoot02:17
GAN800l7, there are about a billion on itT.02:17
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l7mainly of what features i'd miss from the n800 and what would be gained by getting a ipod touch02:17
crashanddiethe way you ask that question shows you're already pretty much biased02:18
GAN800A closed platform that's decent at doing exactly what Apple lets you02:18
crashanddieso there's no real point in arguing anyway02:18
monarchI am having problems getting ssl connections working on my updated maemo system02:18
l7i've been using a n800 for about a year or so, so yeah i'm a bit biased02:18
l7but i'm also bumping up against the tablet's limitations so i'm curious what else i can try02:19
GAN800The iPod is much more limited if anything.02:19
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l7it seems to have a bit more processor horsepower though02:20
GAN800Not by all that much02:20
l7i really wish my n800 was faster for some tasks, so maybe the touch offers a better browsing experience02:21
GAN800Not really, they're about the same.02:21
GAN800Except the iPod has no Flash support02:21
GAN800I'd just wait out the N900, personally02:22
GAN800That will blow the N800 and the iPod clear out of the water.02:22
l7hmm, yeah that's an interesting choice too02:23
l7what're the things you're most looking forward to in the n900?02:23
GAN800OMAP302:23
GAN8002-3x the performance of the OMAP2 with the same or better power consumption.02:24
l7yeah, better performance would be great02:25
l7i suppose on the apple front, i'd have to see whether hell freezes over before apple adds keyboard support to their bluetooth stack02:26
GAN800Putting it in real terms, it can decode 720p without issue02:26
GAN800Also: 3d drivers02:26
GAN800With a GPU that blows the OMAP2's out of the water.02:26
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l7oh yeah, is it going to use Clutter?02:27
GAN800Yeah02:27
GAN800You should also be able to play Quake 3 without issue.02:27
l7i can't think of any reason why i would want to though :)02:28
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GAN800Tablet deathmatches sound fun to me.02:28
`0660i wonder if they will release it before the second half of next year02:28
l7can you get a mouse working on the tablets?02:28
l7otherwise i guess everyone would have the same problem trying to use a stylus to aim02:29
GAN800Yes, though the current xserver needs to be beaten into submission02:29
GAN800But that's a moot point for Fremantle, as it'll bw Xorg02:30
GAN800l7, have you tried Quake?02:30
GAN800It's actually pretty smooth considering.02:30
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l7GAN800: not really, though i've been playing with Bos Wars02:31
l7what are the most useful tablet apps aside from games though?02:32
l7either current ones or n900 stuff to expect02:32
lcukgan  http://liqbase.net/liq.20081124_002613.gary.scr.png02:32
l7mytube and videocenter seem like the best apps so far02:32
GAN800lol02:32
GAN800Maemo Mapper02:32
GAN800FBReader02:32
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GAN800~musthaves02:33
pupnikrock02:33
GAN800~musthave02:33
infobothmm... musthave is Maemo Mapper, FBReader, Vagalume, Canola, Numpty Physics, X-Chat, Evince, ScummVM, MyTube, MPlayer, Advanced Backlight, USBControl, Large Statusbar Clock, Transmission and much more. Also see http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects02:33
GAN800paper02:33
* lcuk wonders why hes isnt on that list :P02:33
l7i guess i should plunk down the cash and get that GPS unit then02:33
l7maemo notes is pretty nice too02:34
l7hrm, that's a handy wiki page02:36
pupnik'must have' is someone's opinion02:36
l7"Advanced Backlight : Replaces the default Volume and Brightness applets with a unified applet that also provides rotation orientation selection."02:36
l7does that mean advanced backlight can rotate your screen?02:36
pupnikno it rotates *you*02:36
l7maybe that's only supported in soviet russia02:37
GeneralAntillespupnik, feel free to add your own to that list. :)02:37
GeneralAntillesl7, with outpo.st/rotate02:37
GeneralAntillespupnik, or development a non-opinion metric for computing must-have applications. :)02:37
l7GeneralAntilles: ah cool02:37
GeneralAntilless/development/develop/02:38
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: pupnik, or develop a non-opinion metric for computing must-have applications. :)02:38
l7i can't think of why i would want to rotate my screen though02:38
l7maybe for certain webpages02:38
pupnikGeneralAntilles: i like the list02:39
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l7which console emulator is the best one of the bunch?02:39
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GeneralAntillesVideo game console?02:40
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l7yeah02:40
GeneralAntillesAny of RST38h's are quite excellent.02:40
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l7the last one i tried seemed a bit buggy02:40
GeneralAntillesI like VGBA and VGB02:40
l7i could give those a spin later02:40
pupnikwhat emu do you want02:41
GeneralAntillesThey work really well.02:41
GeneralAntillesA SNES emu would be nice to get, though.02:41
l7NES and SNES mainly02:41
GeneralAntillesiNES, then.02:41
l7i think i should back up my system every now and then02:41
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l7the tablet seems to get unstable with certain combinations of apps02:42
l7can anyone think of any iphone apps they wish were available on the tablet?02:42
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lcuknone that i know of, the iphone doesnt have technology that i need02:45
TokyoDanI'm using Maemo Mapper and when I try to clear a track or route I get "Failed to write to path database. Tracks and routes may not be saved. SQL logic error or missing dadabase. Should I reinstall Maemo Mapper?02:45
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lcukTokyoDan, sounds more like a data issue than an app issue02:46
lcukie i think it will still be the same after uninstalling and reinstalling, but you can try anyway02:47
lcukis it perhaps a full disk?02:47
GeneralAntillesCheck the routes database. . . .02:47
TokyoDanWell, I did clear everything, maps, routes, tracks, etc. successfully once before I started having this problem.02:48
GeneralAntillesIt keeps an SQL database in MyDocs02:48
GeneralAntillesMake sure it's not full, ro or something.02:48
TokyoDanIs there a way to see the state of the memory cards?02:48
GeneralAntillesIt may be easy to move that database to a card in Maemo Mapper's settings.02:49
TokyoDanMy device memory is almost full. But the cards are only 1 %/02:50
TokyoDanDevice memory says .98 available.02:50
GeneralAntillesWell, it's in MyDocs by default02:50
GeneralAntillesSo unless you've moved the db or symlinked MyDocs. . . .02:50
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TokyoDanI didn't move or symlink anything.02:51
GeneralAntillesThen either move it in Maemo Mapper's settings02:51
GeneralAntillesor free up some space02:52
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GeneralAntillesYou should free up some space, anyway.02:52
TokyoDanI don's see a MyDocs anywhere, Just Documents in main mem.02:52
GeneralAntilless/anyway/either way/02:52
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: You should free up some space, either way.02:52
zakkm_GeneralAntilles: I got the bluetooth adapter, but i cant seem to do bluetooth networking through leopard?02:52
GeneralAntillesUninstall some applications or something.02:52
TokyoDanOK, I'll try that.02:52
GeneralAntilleszakkm_, it's in Sharing02:52
GeneralAntillesI can't help you with the adaptor, though.02:52
zakkm_adapter is fine02:53
zakkm_they both recognize eachother02:53
zakkm_bluetooth sharing?02:53
zakkm_use bluetooth sharing preferences and set up your compute rto share files with other bluetooth enabled computers and devices. ?02:53
GeneralAntillesInternet Sharing02:54
GeneralAntillesor Bluetooth Sharing02:54
GeneralAntillesDon't remember02:54
GeneralAntillesPoke around a bit.02:54
zakkm_share your connection from: bluetooth. . . to computers using : ethernet?02:54
zakkm_is that right?02:54
GeneralAntillesReverse it.02:54
zakkm_if i do ethernet... "to computers using: " only shows ethernet02:55
zakkm_do you have a bluetooth option or something?02:56
l7GeneralAntilles: how did you get the buttons working in vgba?02:58
l7it doesn't seem to accept my keboard input02:58
zakkm_isnt vgba for stylus?02:59
GeneralAntillesl7, see the menu02:59
GeneralAntillesUse the touchscreen and the dpad.02:59
zakkm_menu - stylus cues03:00
GeneralAntillesWorks fine with fingers too.03:00
l7GeneralAntilles: which menu item?  configuration > input only seems to offer autofire controls03:01
GeneralAntillesl7, zakkm_ told you.03:01
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zakkm_GeneralAntilles: i cant find it03:02
zakkm_oh wait03:02
zakkm_is PAN what i want?03:02
zakkm_bluetooth PAN?03:02
GeneralAntillesYes03:02
l7oh right, thanks03:02
zakkm_i got " the cable for bluetooth pan is not plugged in"03:02
l7i wonder if there's a way to remap the keys in a configuration file03:03
GeneralAntilleszakkm_, are you sure the adaptor works?03:04
zakkm_GeneralAntilles: now i got it to do . .sahre your connection from ethernet to computers using:  bluetooth pan03:04
zakkm_yes03:04
zakkm_they both recognize eachother03:04
zakkm_i just cant get internet going03:04
zakkm_and it was my friends old one03:04
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GeneralAntillesDunno03:04
GeneralAntillesYou could try #macosx03:05
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zakkm_how would nokia read the internet connection03:06
zakkm_would it appear as a wifi hotspot?03:06
GeneralAntilles Use maemo-pan03:06
zakkm_oh i dont have that?03:07
GeneralAntillesI dunno03:08
GeneralAntillesDid you install it?03:08
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TokyoDanI gave up an uninstalled Maemo Mapper now I can't install it because there's not enough space. Is there a way to 'clean up' the N810 storage  and get rid of temp, left over orphan files?03:38
TokyoDanMy internal mem is 249.5 MB with 3.42 free, mad up of 54.2MB "Other Files".03:40
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TokyoDanI hve xulrunner installed taking u 25MB. I wonder if it is for the native N810 Diable browser or left over from that Fennec browser that I tried and then uninstalled.03:49
GeneralAntillesIt's for Fennec03:50
GeneralAntillesRemove it.03:50
GeneralAntillesIn the future, when people tell you something's not going to help, it's generally advisable not to do it anyway. ;)03:50
TokyoDanThanks a million.03:50
TokyoDanSo u think my problem was lack of storage space?03:51
GeneralAntillesI'm 100% certain it was.03:51
TokyoDanI am in the habit of starting over. I like to uninstall and reinstall to get back to a clean state.03:52
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't typically work that way.03:52
GeneralAntillesUnless you specifically purge things.03:52
TokyoDanWell thanks again General (And I'll continue to behave on ITT. Still leaning on-line manners).03:53
GeneralAntillesSettings generally aren't uninstalled when removing an application03:53
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TokyoDanThat's what I'd like to know...How to get rid of those old settings/config files.03:55
GeneralAntillesdpkg --purge03:55
TokyoDando I execute that as is?03:56
GeneralAntillesWhen you want to remove a package and all its settings.03:56
GeneralAntillesIt's the nuclear version of --remove03:56
TokyoDanso I need to preceed that with the package name.03:56
GeneralAntillesWorks just like dpkg -i03:57
l7hrm, does sound work for anyone on vgba?03:57
l7i have to say it is a pretty nice emulator aside from that03:57
GeneralAntillesl7, it seems to be very quiet.03:57
GeneralAntillesSo make sure volume's at max.03:58
l7it only produces clicking and faint pops for me03:58
TokyoDanI got rid of a game (Egnima) and that fennec file and got 22.7 MB free on myinternal storage.03:58
l7even with sound maxed out03:58
l7maybe it's game specific as some forum posts suggest03:58
GeneralAntillesl7, yeah, that too.04:00
GeneralAntillesIt also seems to be occasionally variable.04:00
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TokyoDanGeneralAntilles: Maemo Mapper is working fine now. Thanks again for your help.04:26
GeneralAntillesSure thing04:27
GeneralAntillesLow storage space causes a lot of problems04:27
GeneralAntillesSo it's a good idea to leave yourself a buffer.04:27
TokyoDanI'll keep that in mind. Well back to reading my Python/Djago books...learning new things. Later.04:30
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monarchI am having a strange problem on my n81005:18
monarchI can connect to the wifi05:19
monarchbut if I use any ssl based connection it kills my wifi connection05:19
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Proteousthat is strange05:27
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l707:24
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LivingroomHAI!07:31
Livingroomhow is everyone?07:31
Livingroomis anyone awake?07:31
solmumahanot quite, still working on the second cup of coffee07:32
Livingroomlol07:32
Livingroomso i have the N80007:32
Livingroomand it's epic, but i dont know what i can really do with it.07:32
solmumahawhat would you like to do with it?07:34
Livingroomwell07:34
Livingroomi dont know07:34
Livingroomhonestly :(07:34
solmumaha:)07:34
solmumahagood bought then07:34
Livingroomi was hoping to use it to run a websever07:35
Livingroomand also to crack wep07:35
Livingroomand it needs VNC or RDP server07:35
Livingroomand preferably i'd like multi-user shellspace07:35
Livingroomand it needs GCC onboard.07:35
Livingroomso i can compile MUDs for ARM or maemo or whatever and run them07:35
Livingroomand i want to have a full featured website07:35
Livingroomand if it could automatically upload camera pictures taht'd be great too07:36
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Livingroomthat's kinda what i wanted.07:37
solmumahacompiling on the device isn't very fast07:37
Livingroomdoesnt matter07:37
Livingroomthe fact that it can do it makes me giddy.07:38
Livingroomalso: i want to have the ARM/Darwin toolchain installed for ondevice mobile development of iphone apps! WEE!!07:38
solmumahawell i guess most are doable07:38
Livingroomsweet07:39
solmumahabut you may be overestimating it's cpu :)07:40
Livingroomperhaps07:40
Livingroomit wont do all of those things at the same time though07:40
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Livingroomeach thing i want to do would be on it's own07:40
solmumahawell for starters you can check http://gronmayer.com/it for software07:40
Livingroombeen there07:41
Livingroomit's somewhat confusing07:41
Livingroomfor example, i dont know what to do with the sources.install file07:41
GeneralAntillesEw, solmumaha, not gronmayer. <_<07:41
GeneralAntilles~extras07:41
infobotit has been said that extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras07:41
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Livingroompersonally07:42
Livingroomi think the n800 is the most awesome pda available07:42
Livingroom...once you get it to do what you want it to do :)07:42
solmumahaGeneralAntilles: I shouldn't help here, should I? :)07:42
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Livingroomhmm, that site isnt pulling up for me07:42
GeneralAntillessolmumaha, well, feel free to help, just don't recommend that site. :P07:42
GeneralAntillesNot anymore, anyway.07:42
solmumahathe fact is, not everything is in extras yet07:42
Livingroomwhats wrong with gron?07:42
GeneralAntillesLivingroom, you'll want the sdk/sdk and sdk/tools repos: http://maemo.org/development/tools/#apt-example07:42
GeneralAntillesLivingroom, you want the long explanation or the short one?07:43
Livingroomwhatever is best07:43
GeneralAntillesWell, traditionally, Maemo hasn't had a very strong central repository07:43
GeneralAntillesand the result of that has been a lot of 3rd party repositories07:44
Livingroomo07:44
GeneralAntillesthese repositories basically only serve to make some developer's lives easier at the expense of users and other developers07:44
Livingroomoh07:44
GeneralAntillesThe community has been working on centralizing everything into Extras07:44
GeneralAntillesand gronmayer is kind of counter-productive to that effort. ;)07:45
solmumahayes, but it will die once the job is done07:45
Livingroomextras is a blank screen in firefox for me07:45
GeneralAntillessolmumaha, and encouraging its use just delays that end.07:45
GeneralAntillesLivingroom, there's an issue with the caching daemon on the wiki.07:45
GeneralAntillesThe webmaster is going to fix it this week07:46
Livingroomo ok07:46
GeneralAntillesbut for the time being, just ctrl-shift-r07:46
GeneralAntillesSquid is serving up blank pages sometimes.07:46
GeneralAntillesOne or two reloads (as long as you forcefully avoid the cache) will get the real deal.07:46
GeneralAntillesYou'll probably be interested in Deblet: http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet07:47
GeneralAntillesx11vnc in available in Extras-devel07:47
Livingroomdeblet looks cool but07:47
GeneralAntillesbuild-essentials is available from the SDK repository, but it's not really intended for use on-device, so be careful when you have it enabled.07:47
Livingroomdoes it work? or is it a work in progress07:48
GeneralAntillesIt works well enough07:48
GeneralAntillesIt's not a replacement for Maemo for mobile usage07:48
GeneralAntillesbut it's probably going to be a better development platform.07:48
Livingroomill stick with maemo07:48
Livingroomhave they improved the screen rotation yet?07:48
Livingroomlast i checked was in may07:48
GeneralAntilleshttp://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/install-stable.html <- .install07:48
GeneralAntillesWell, the issue is that the DE just isn't set up for any resolution but 800x48007:49
Livingroomoh07:49
Livingroomwhats the hildon app mgr?07:49
GeneralAntillesIt'll be improving moving forward, but I doubt many of those improvements will make it to Diablo07:49
GeneralAntillesThe GUI package manager for the Hildon DE07:49
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Livingroomoh07:50
Livingroomi'm so lost by all this.07:50
GeneralAntillesAh, too fast? ;)07:50
Livingroomjust so much to take in at once07:51
GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo_Platform http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo_(operating_system) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildon07:51
GeneralAntillesGood places to start.07:51
Livingroommay was the last i fooled around with this and everything still seemed a little rough from the 2007-2008 transition07:51
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Livingroomand canola is just annoying.07:53
GeneralAntillesMeh07:53
GeneralAntillesTo Each His Own07:53
Livingroomtrue07:53
Livingroombut i'd still like a version of XMMS07:53
GeneralAntillesIt's available.07:53
Livingroomi'm a bit overwhelmed by what's available, and underwhelmed by how little it does that i want so badly for it to do, so i'm just kinda 'meh'07:55
Livingroommuch of it i simply dont know how to use07:55
Livingroomlike bluez-utils07:55
GeneralAntillesDifferent people tend to access media in different ways. Canola tends to appeal a bit more to the iPod/PMP types.07:55
Livingroomor aircrack07:55
Livingroomthere's something called 'bonnie++' it's a hard drive bottleneck testing benchmark suite- hard drive? in my n800?07:57
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Livingroomcanola is just a media management program, right? why does it have a flickr plugin?08:18
GeneralAntillesWell, a media playback and viewing program08:19
GeneralAntillesFor the same reason it handles photos?08:19
Livingroomhmm08:19
Livingroomoh!08:19
Livingroomi was thinking uploads, silly me.08:19
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Livingroomif something says programname-GTK - does that mean it has a gui frontent?08:29
Livingroom*frontend08:29
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pupnikyes Livingroom09:51
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SargunWhat method does Maemo use to make the mouse cursor disappear?10:00
X-Fadetransparant icon ;)10:00
Sargunthere are also builds of X10:00
Sargunthat have nocursor10:01
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baabais there something special i need to do with a deb repository for it to show up in the application manager?10:18
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baabaworks fine with apt but the app manager refuses to show anything i put there10:18
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Meiz_n810app-manager shows only packages from repos that are in sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list10:23
Meiz_n810if you want to browse all installable packages, like libraries etc.. enable red pill mode10:23
baabaah okay, thanks10:24
Meiz_n810np10:27
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aquatixhm, better not do red pill mode10:35
aquatixrather use apt-get or something in a terminal10:35
Meiz_n810i prefer apt-get too10:42
Meiz_n810app-mgr goes laggy, when it has to list so many packages10:42
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aquatixyeah10:49
aquatixstill use it though10:50
aquatixas it's convenient to just hit the orange ! when there are updates :)10:50
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JaffaMorning, all11:03
zhaozhouGood morning.11:04
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* lardman is just reading the rant about kismet on -users, glad I don't usually listen to that list12:08
X-Fadeheh, some people never learn. I gave up.12:10
timelyxping?12:12
timelyxcan someone do me a favor?12:12
timelyxi'm looking for the chess pictures12:12
timelyxfind / -name '*hess*jpg'12:13
timelyxfind / -name '*hess*png'12:13
RST38hGoogle.12:13
timelyxon a device12:13
RST38hlardman: Imagine -users traffic converted into podcasts and read to you using Flite every morning12:13
lardmanweird, they seem to be somewhat paranoid about some conspiracy against them by the great satan known as Nokia12:13
lardmanRST38h: lol, it would prepare me to deal with bureauocracy at least ;)12:14
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RST38hFinnish terorirsts indeed, bent on importing hundreds of ravenous bears into the States12:15
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lardmanI more got the feeling that by stopping the rest of the world from using kismet, they would easily be able to take over all computer networks everywhere! ;)12:16
lardmanbears sound like a good second wave though ;)12:17
lardmando they have bears in Finland?12:18
RST38hlardman: Yea, some come across the border from SpB, once they exhaust food supplies of western tourists there12:19
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timelyxlardman: i'm sure we do12:20
timelyxhttp://virtual.finland.fi/netcomm/news/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=2558212:20
lardmanwell I'll pack a rifle if I ever come to visit then ;)12:20
timelyxnice12:21
lardmantimelyx: I meant for self protection actually12:21
solmumahalardman: or come in winter time12:21
lardmanand was probably thinking of polar bears; not many bears left in the UK12:21
RST38hlardman: are there any animals left in the UK, anyway?12:22
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lardmanRST38h: well I read an article in the paper at the weekend about feral youths12:24
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RST38hlardman: Are they tasty? =)~12:26
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lardmanRST38h: too dirty in geneal, and you can't tell unless you get very close as they all wear hoodies :D12:32
RST38hEhhh12:33
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X-FadeA nice look on the hardware testing side: http://thesymbianblog.com/2008/11/21/a-tour-of-the-nokia-test-center-see-devices-put-through-extreme-testing/12:42
lardmanhmm, didn't test my 6300 well enough, hand free kit stopped working after a month12:43
lardmanstill, pretty cool12:44
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GeneralAntilleslardman, Classic Mark Haury thread. ;)12:52
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I couldn't bring myself to even finish reading it, painful!12:54
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GeneralAntillesYeah, it's bad.12:56
GeneralAntillesPretty much every thread he participates in ends up like that12:56
GeneralAntillesthough the OP was more helpful than usual in escalating it quickly12:56
GeneralAntillesActually, I still haven't figured out if he's just trolling or if he's actually that deluded.12:56
lardmanWhat's happened to Karel out of interest (thinking of ITT)?12:57
lardmanHe seems pretty anti the Pandora now too12:57
GeneralAntillesHe's another odd one.12:57
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GeneralAntillesHe fluctuates from being a decent person and helping out people to a foaming-at-the-mouth-rabid Nokia hater.12:58
lardmanlol12:58
GeneralAntilless/a decent/a half-way decent/12:58
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: He fluctuates from being a half-way decent person and helping out people to a foaming-at-the-mouth-rabid Nokia hater.12:58
lardmanadd Pandora-company hater to the list now as well then12:58
GeneralAntillesMostly, though, he just trolls any thread that could be construed as being remotely Pandora-relevant.12:59
GeneralAntillesI haven't seen any hate from him so far.12:59
lardmanon the Pandora fora, very anti what I've read recently12:59
GeneralAntillesHuh13:00
GeneralAntillesLinks to any decent ones?13:00
lardmanlet me have a look13:00
GeneralAntillesI don't pay attention to those forums, and he's surely too embarrassed to try to get himself out of the corner he's painted himself into on itT re: the Pandora. . . .13:00
lardmanyeah, well the Pandora is delayed yet again, I can sort of understand his frustration13:01
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GeneralAntillesOne should never bank that heavily on stuff like that. ;)13:02
GeneralAntillesIt only leads to letdowns and embarrassment.13:02
RST38hThe Pandora is delayed? Really?13:02
lardmanlol13:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, since April! ;)13:03
suihkulokkiyou _can_ bank on any company making their first product to get many unexpected delays :)13:03
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, not really the first.13:03
RST38hOh well13:03
baabawhat does the device name thing affect exactly when starting an n810 for the first time?13:03
baababluetooth only?13:03
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I can't search for posts by one person, crap forum software, sorry don't have the time to search through all the posts13:04
GeneralAntillesHrm, did they switch software?13:04
GeneralAntillesI thought they were using IP.Board13:04
lardmanI think the main issue is the lack of transparency with the process, some delays are expected, but no info then little dribs and drabs is annoying13:04
suihkulokkiGeneralAntilles: hmm.. what did they do before?13:05
lardmanhttp://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showuser=1439313:05
lardmanwell perhaps not setup properly then?13:05
GeneralAntillesBut I thought OpenPandora was supposed to be the new bastion of openness? :P13:05
lardmanah, user error!13:05
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, GP32x13:05
lardmanGeneralAntilles: my arse13:05
lardman:)13:05
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suihkulokkiGeneralAntilles: iirc pandora people were GP32x resellers, they werent' involded in design/manufacturing13:06
GeneralAntillesOh? I figured they were somehow involved with its manufacture.13:07
suihkulokkiGeneralAntilles: http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Various/Pandora/news.asp?c=866713:08
lardmanGeneralAntilles: hmm, I have a feeling he edited his post when he found out he wasn't going to lose money on the refund, either that or I misread13:09
GeneralAntillesSpeaking honestly, I really could care less about the project.13:09
lardmanAnyway, that's the feeling I'm getting now too13:09
RST38hlardman: The main issue is that they are a tiny company which has no experience building devices and no funds13:09
lardmanThough I would like some new hardware13:09
RST38hlardman: In fact, you may remember telling this from the start13:09
lardmanRST38h: no experience yes, they have a backer though, so I don't think the funds are an issue, though it's all rather opaque13:09
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GeneralAntilleslardman, I've been meaning to ask you, did you have much experience with how the Zaurus community handled documentation between incompatible devices/software?13:10
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RST38hNot that I have anything against Pandora, but their chances are kinda low in my view13:10
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I igorned everything that wasn't OpenZaurus and that wasn't the latest release13:10
lardman(in terms of docs that is)13:10
GeneralAntillesI'm wondering what the best way of handling incompatible documentation between OS2008 and Maemo 5.13:11
lardmanRST38h: yeah, I was ever hopeful they'd have some cool hardware out that I could play witn though13:11
GeneralAntillesWe sorta sidestepped the issue with the 770.13:11
lardmanGeneralAntilles: depends on whether the N8x0 can be upgraded or not, if so we just tell people to upgrade13:11
GeneralAntillesMy guess is that that answer will be: no. ;)13:11
GeneralAntillesEither way, that still doesn't solve it moving farther forward.13:12
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RST38hlardman: As far as this stuff goes, leave all hope at the entrance13:12
lardmanRST38h: in terms of seeing finished hw you mean>13:12
lardman?13:12
GeneralAntillesGoing in with optimism about targets and projections is just going to leave you disappointed.13:16
lardmandon't worry I'm cynical13:17
GeneralAntillesDoes anybody want more from this, or can I wrap it up? https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Document_the_maemo.org_Sprint_procedure13:17
GeneralAntillesBrontide never did get around to laying out his voting procedure on the wiki.13:18
GeneralAntillesDamn. . .13:18
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, is it because you or Quim stopped reporting? :P13:19
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Heh, I just wanted to point out to others that they need to be reporting too ;)13:20
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Otherwise it looks like nobody is doing anything.13:22
* GeneralAntilles has his suspicions. :narrowedeyes:13:22
GeneralAntillesYou're all laid up drinking and watching Law & Order reruns, aren't you. . . .13:23
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: What? That we are working on a final Maemo5 release tomorrow? :D13:23
GeneralAntilles:headsplode:13:23
GeneralAntillesIt's gonna end up being an OS2005 re-releases with updated copyright information13:24
GeneralAntillesI just know it.13:24
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Heh just a general s/OS200/Maemo / replace ;)13:25
X-FadeSo we can do even better and release a Maemo 8 ;)13:25
GeneralAntillesHehe13:25
X-FadeWhich is one more than Windows 7. So it must be better.13:25
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GeneralAntillesSomebody should put together a wiki page with all of the Maemo default themes.13:26
caio1982GeneralAntilles: which, btw, reminds me that qt4 is not packaged with gtkstyle by default on maemo/diablo :)13:27
X-Fadecaio1982: The one in extras-devel?13:28
caio1982X-Fade: yep, at least my qt4 stuff looks theme-less13:28
caio1982i was told only app menu and context menus were hildonized, so far? true?13:29
GeneralAntillescaio1982, I think the svn has it.13:29
X-Fadecaio1982: I have no experience with qt4 on maemo. gnuton might know.13:29
GeneralAntillesjott would be able to tell you if he weren't hiding. . . .13:29
caio1982GeneralAntilles: oh!13:29
caio1982GeneralAntilles: cool beans, i'll take a look at the svn data before bothering him ;)13:30
lardmanhey GeneralAntilles are you registered?13:30
GeneralAntillescaio1982, I recall something along those lines when I last overhead them discussing it about a month ago.13:30
GeneralAntilleslardman, for?13:30
lardmanpm13:30
GeneralAntillesThis account is almost 6 years old.13:30
lardmanyeah, but have you identified yourself to the server i meant?13:31
GeneralAntillesI should think so.13:31
lardmanhmm, perhaps my client has gone wrong then, I can't pm you13:31
GeneralAntillesWeird13:31
Stskeepsfreenode oddity? :P13:32
lardmanah well no need for a pm I guess, here you go :) http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?s=&showtopic=45378&view=findpost&p=67186213:32
w00tnevar13:32
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GeneralAntilleslardman, get mine?13:32
lardmannope13:32
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GeneralAntillesEdited by an admin, I guess?13:34
lardmanyeah13:34
GeneralAntilleslulArchos13:34
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GeneralAntillesGotta love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.13:34
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GeneralAntillesGuess I shouldn't include guenther when talking about the maemo.org team anymore. . . . <_<13:38
GeneralAntillesHopefully the next time somebody moves on everybody actually finds out about it. :\13:39
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I was supposed to stop in September, I think.13:39
X-Fade* he ;)13:39
lardmanand we're still stuck with you!?! ;)13:39
X-Fadelardman: At least until the end of the year ;)13:40
lardmanwhatever happened to that who's who page? With mugshots too would be good for the next meeting13:40
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lardmanX-Fade: good, and hopefully beyond13:40
GeneralAntillesI, for one, will be demanding a contract renewal.13:40
lardmanlol13:41
GeneralAntilleslardman, it was axed.13:41
lardmanshame13:41
lardmanwould be useful13:41
GeneralAntillesif not a contract renewal, we're gonna have to go Clockwork Orange on you, X-Fade. :P13:41
GeneralAntilleslardman, well, it would never actually be completely up to date13:41
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GeneralAntillesit would never be complete due to the difficulty of tracking people's movements and people who opt-out13:42
lardmanbetter than nothing though, but fair enough, more important fish to fry and all that13:43
GeneralAntillesThe end decision was basically that people should keep their maemo.org profiles up to date.13:43
X-FadeHmm we could make a mugshot page based on profile images ;)13:44
GeneralAntillesI think the maemo.org team would be appropriate13:44
lardmanmany of those are missing for Nokians though13:45
GeneralAntillesWe can exclude Nokia people.13:45
lardmanhmm13:45
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GeneralAntillesWhere'd ferenc disappear to anyway?13:46
X-FadeHe didn't have a contract.13:47
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X-FadeBut he will be working on things from week 48 again.13:48
GeneralAntillesAh, OK, sounds good then.13:48
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: He's not working for Nokia anymore, so he did work on project base.13:49
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: any opinion on that post on m-d from Ian? there's probably something to be said but not sure what :P13:57
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, hehe.13:57
GeneralAntillesWell, not really.13:57
GeneralAntillesI dunno, it probably sounds reasonable13:58
GeneralAntillesbut I guess the real issue is that Ubuntu doesn't actually target the type of device Nokia deals with.13:58
GeneralAntillesWhereas with Dell. . .13:58
Stskeepsyeah.. and wrapping Maemo into Ubuntu isn't feasible13:58
Stskeepscontradicting goals13:58
GeneralAntillesThough maybe it's a non-issue13:59
GeneralAntillesand Ubuntu is interested in pushing in Maemo's direction13:59
GeneralAntillesDunno13:59
Stskeepswe'll see what mer brings about of what is needed to get sane results, i guess.. so far, things do conflict a bit13:59
GeneralAntillesEither way, I can't really imagine it being feasible in anything but the long-term. . . .14:00
Stskeepssaw the quim comments on linux.org.uk or who was it?14:00
ccookeStskeeps: I'm curious about the "wrapping Maemo into Ubuntu isn't feasible" comment - I can install maemo onto any Ubuntu box. It's in the standard repositories14:00
GeneralAntillesI'm not convince Nokia would really get anything out of it.14:01
GeneralAntillesOr that they'd necessarily need anything more than they already have.14:01
Stskeepsccooke: maemo != hildon14:01
Stskeepsthe really interesting part about maemo is not hildon. it's the underlying OS14:02
ccookeAh ha.14:02
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: http://www.linuxuk.org/ubuntu_on_maemo14:02
Stskeeps(comments)14:02
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, I read through them before.14:02
Stskeepsk14:02
Stskeepsit quite states "fremantle definately won't be a huge shift" ;)14:03
Stskeepswhich is a good thing i guess14:03
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GeneralAntillesIt's funny, more and more I get the feeling that when things like this come up that Nokia doesn't really have a set-in-stone direction for Maemo and that they're willing to take input on that direction.14:04
Stskeepsthey have the backup plan which is improving upon existing base i guess14:04
Stskeepsand use visions, hw visions, i guess14:04
GeneralAntillesWhich is weird coming from the Apple community where the rumor-mill churns away and it always comes out that Apple's plan was this or that.14:05
GeneralAntillesWhereas our rumor-mill churns away and spit out stuff like "Ubuntu + Maemo" and it turns out that Nokia doesn't really have any hard plans there, but would be happy to discuss it. :P14:05
Stskeepsand maemo is quite an experiment in open platform, open device14:05
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm willing to bet they wouldn't jump into something without solid proof it would be a benefit :P14:06
Stskeepswhich is a good thing14:06
GeneralAntillesOf course14:06
GeneralAntillesI'm used to there always being a plan machinating away behind the corporate iron curtain.14:08
Stskeepswell plans are sometimes contrary to innovation i guess14:08
Stskeepsbottom up vs top down14:08
GeneralAntillesApple has an entirely different relationship with its customer base than Maemo Software. ;)14:08
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Stskeepsi think nokia embraces the fact innovation happens both in community and behind the walls14:10
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GeneralAntillesWell, Maemo Software does anyway.14:10
Stskeepsand embracing community can lead to cheap innovation14:10
Stskeeps:P14:10
Stskeepsyeah, when i say nokia i usually mean maemo sw :P14:10
Stskeepswhen i mean the iron giant nokia, i mean the corporation14:10
Stskeeps:P14:10
GeneralAntillesYeah, so do I.14:10
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w00tStskeeps: you make me feel warm and fuzzy14:15
Stskeepsw00t: no more fat guys dancing videos from you, please14:15
w00thaha14:15
w00tdid i scar you for life?14:15
* GeneralAntilles quickly finds mugshots of the maemo.org team because the GA clones are just too damn creepy.14:15
Stskeepsfairly. not as bad as numa numa. :P14:16
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* w00t has the whole CD14:16
w00t:P14:16
Stskeepsbrik's, i hope :P14:17
GeneralAntillesHrm, maemo.org profile shots are too small.14:17
w00tStskeeps: no, mine14:17
Stskeepsscary.14:19
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, lardman, how about something like https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team ? With a paragraph description of the position.14:24
lardmanyep, looks good14:25
X-FadeThat seems to work..14:26
GeneralAntillesNot to include Nemein or Nokia people.14:27
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lardmanI think including people one might see would be useful though, and that includes core Nokia people14:28
GeneralAntillesWell, I don't have anything against including non-maemo.org-core people14:29
lardmanwhat we need is some CSI-tastic image processing to make Dave's and Niels' images useful ;)14:29
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GeneralAntillesBut I'd rather have a subset of people that's complete14:29
GeneralAntillesthan a larger set of people that's incomplete14:29
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GeneralAntilleslardman, yeah, the maemo.org profile is limited to 50px max14:29
GeneralAntillesWe were using 72px for the Council14:29
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=e4ccb37a3d430175bd4f6f2a7b901cb7&rating=PG&size=7214:30
lardmanis Dave holding a cabbage?14:30
GeneralAntillesAhaha14:30
X-FadeOr change it to any size you want.14:30
GeneralAntillesI believe that's a child. :P14:30
lardmanoops14:30
lardman:)14:30
GeneralAntillesCabbage14:31
GeneralAntillesThat's classic.14:31
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, that looks upscaled.14:31
lardmanwell it was a random guess :D14:31
GeneralAntillesI'm gonna have to remember that one.14:31
GeneralAntillesMakes me wish we had a #maemo qdb.14:32
lardmanapologies to the child in question14:33
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GeneralAntillesNow somebody just needs to type up some role descriptions.14:34
GeneralAntilleslardman, OK, if we add some Nokians, who are you thinking?14:36
GeneralAntillesQuim and Tero?14:36
lardmanFor starters14:37
lardmanpersonally I'd like to see pictures of the people we talk to on the mailing lists, etc14:37
lardmani.e. the developers14:37
GeneralAntillesWell, then we're back to a Who's Who14:37
GeneralAntillesWhich was shot down.14:37
X-Fadegravatar.com ;)14:37
lardmanI know, I think it would be useful14:37
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GeneralAntillesCoerce them into putting up profile pictures. :P14:37
lardmanyeah14:38
X-Fadelardman: I've been playing a bit with account pictures for the forum: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/14:38
X-Fadelardman: Although that is only a test ;)14:38
GeneralAntillesGod that layout is the worst ever.14:38
GeneralAntillesTalk about whitespace city.14:38
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: There is no layout for that one yet ;)14:39
lardmanX-Fade: they are too small to be used for anything other than a representation (i.e. I know the pattern of colours is such and such)14:39
lardmanX-Fade: interesting idea though14:39
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: that's it, let's kick his idea some more shall we? ;)14:39
X-FadeI think we have the original imnages too.14:40
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* lardman goes to find some food14:41
GeneralAntilleslardman, I say we just start kicking him. ;)14:41
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lcukwhats all this about pictures?    you lot can have my avatar but not my real pic - i crack lenses15:13
lcuk(though i know theres pics around :D)15:13
GeneralAntillesWe already got it. :P15:13
lcukyou should have my avatar15:13
lcuknot my pic15:13
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* lcuk never released his image under any license15:14
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GeneralAntillesLinuxTag and the Summit.15:14
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lcukyeah i know people have taken picture of me, but usage of those pictures is a different thing (i really dont care im just bein argumentative, ill find you a better pic)15:15
lcuki joined up for nokia friendview thing and my avaqtar looks bob in there15:15
lcuki was thinking of upping a picture anyway15:15
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lcukdoes anyone know how ttf actually works?15:29
lcuki know its a font program, but is it interpretable15:29
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GeneralAntilles"program"?15:30
GeneralAntillesIt's a font format.15:30
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lcukyes, the fonts are a generated program and the glyph at a particular size is the result of running that code15:31
lcukie, its not stored as pixelmaps15:31
GeneralAntillesAlright, alright.15:31
GeneralAntillesHave you looked at FreeType?15:31
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lcuki use freetype now15:31
lcukbut it generates bitmaps in the wrong format15:31
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ShadowJK_eh?15:32
lcukand hence i have a limitation, im thinking about something to get round this limitation15:32
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lcukShadowJK_, i cannot use freetype to write to the YUV plane15:32
lcukit knows rgb15:32
lcukhence wrong format15:32
ShadowJK_just copy/add g to y?15:33
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ShadowJK_I'm hoping you only want black text ;)15:34
lcukwell i have white text on black background  - thats simplest because I can OR the resultant greyscale bitmap and get decent results (as i have currently)15:35
woglindehm there is no other lib like freetype I know of15:35
lcukbut if i want to put black text on a white background i have to incorporate a full aplha blending algorythm and lose the 32bit aligned super speedy approach i currently use15:36
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lcukwoglinde, im thinking of diving directly into freetpye and seeing whether i can get it doing YUV updates faster15:36
GeneralAntillesI'm sure they'd appreciate that approach. ;)15:37
lcukthe alternative is for me to expand upon my "ransom" font and make it work properly15:37
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lcukGeneralAntilles, nothing wrong with adding an additional output type if it fits with the rest15:37
lcukit already supports an enumeration of different formats, YUV would simply be an additional one15:37
woglindelcuk maening rewrite render stuff with arm asm15:37
lcukif thats the way i went15:38
GeneralAntillesEr, what I mean is: I'm sure they'd appreciate you adding functionality to an existing lib instead of rolling your own.15:38
lcukahhh yes gen i agree15:38
lcukbut to do that i would have to "understand" the ttf format i think and understand the library, hence me asking if anyone know15:38
lcukdid you see my ransom note15:38
GeneralAntillesTalking to upstream is probably the logical next step.15:39
GeneralAntillesNo?15:39
GeneralAntillesOh15:39
GeneralAntillesYes.15:39
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lcuk:D well that saves  this for those that didnt15:39
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20081124_002613.gary.scr.png15:39
lcukit works in fullcolor and since i did this I put it in with the bookreader code, its freaky to see my own handwriting15:40
woglindelcuk lol15:40
lcukin a book15:40
woglindelcuk the lcuk-grafiti-font?15:40
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lcukyeah woglinde, obviously it needs work (it just takes every glyph as same size and fits it within the boundary of the ttf glyph hence the sizes are screwed, needs tidying up, but it works15:41
woglindeheheh15:41
lcukand as an extra bonus, its rotatable15:41
woglindewhat?15:41
woglindeah if you rotate the screen15:41
lcukthe glyph vectors15:41
lcuk / sketches15:42
woglindeI tought of rotating only one glyph15:42
lcukautomatic 90deg rotation is easy, and only a little bit harder for arbritary15:42
woglindehm I not so firm with font-stuff15:43
woglindeonly minimal knowing15:43
woglindeaeh knowledge15:43
woglindehence my english is getting worser and worser15:43
lcuklol no problem, you are understandable15:44
lcuklets just say: http://liqbase.net/liq.20081123_012734.gary.scr.rot.png this was the first test15:44
lcukive been thinking about fonts for a while and knew the day would come when people wanted something other than white text on a black background15:44
* GeneralAntilles demands it right now.15:45
GeneralAntillesOr else.15:45
lcukheh15:45
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lcukyou can have it, but ill lose serious amounts of time by having to render and re-render the fonts from ttf->rgb->yuv15:45
lcukdoing it with sketches works nicely, so as my quick fix ill drop that in and see how it looks ;)15:46
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woglindelcuk if you are in the mood, you could read the bio of one of the font masters15:46
woglindehttp://download.linotype.com/free/howtouse/ZapfBiography.pdf15:46
lcukim just finishing my dinner hour15:47
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lcuki suppose i could sit down for a couple of hours this afternoon and read through ;)15:47
* lcuk would get in trouble tho15:47
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* lcuk can see a mandelbug screenshot on tablet :) i like infinity, anyway, back later15:48
lcukthanks for ideas15:48
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woglindebye lcuk15:49
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* Khertan2 [W2I=000:u:0:000:]16:03
Khertan2Hello16:03
woglindehi khertan16:03
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Khertan2it s seems there is a small bug with the web chat irc ...16:03
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Khertan2i still see old nick connected ...16:04
Khertan2do you know a way to unlock screen with vnc ?16:04
GeneralAntillesKhertan, has PyPackager been obsoleted, or is it waiting on something?16:04
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Khertan2as my n810 is locked16:04
Khertan2PyPackager is ... a way to create .deb for maemo ...16:05
Khertan2but not to upload them to extras16:05
Khertan2this is why i suggest using py2deb16:05
Khertan2to create file and archive to upload it to autobuilder which will create the package16:05
Khertan2but i ll rename in a few time py2deb to pypackager ....16:06
Khertan2and merge their feature16:06
Khertan2why ?16:06
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GeneralAntillesWell, I was going to say you should add in Maemo-Display-Name and Maemo-Upgrade-Description16:06
Khertan2Yep ... and change the category list in py2deb to force to use the good one16:07
X-Fadethe autobuilder has been changed to submit warnings when you use a wrong category btw.16:08
woglindehehe good16:08
GeneralAntillesYou know what's going to happen next, don't you?16:08
GeneralAntillesThe next SSU push will be the last Maemo update until Fremantle and the new categories list will be 100% useless until Summer 2009. :P16:09
X-FadeExtras assistant also will show a warning now.16:09
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, at least we already have correct packages in the repo by then ;)16:09
X-FadeCan't be worse than what we have now ;)16:10
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, getting these new categories shipped is currently blocked by YOU.16:10
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, get a move on. :P16:10
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woglindehi qwerty16:11
qwerty12hi woglinde16:11
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woglindehm chatting as root16:12
qwerty12x-chat frowns upon you if you try chatting as root :P16:12
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* qwerty12 finishes packaging bemused-mpd16:15
StsN800woo16:16
woglindemoo16:16
qwerty12loo16:16
lardmanp...16:17
qwerty12imp?16:17
lardmanooh16:17
woglindehrms I am freezing today16:17
lardmanyeah, same here16:17
qwerty12woglinde, brr, same here16:17
qwerty12bloody London :)16:17
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StsN800.dk too16:18
woglindeand I turned the heater to max16:18
qwerty12Stskeeps, The Nordic countries are always cold anyway :P16:18
woglinde*g*16:18
StsN800.dk isn't as bad as .fi16:19
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GeneralAntillesI wish there were a way to encourage registered users to actually edit logged in on the wiki.16:20
GeneralAntillesI seem to recall a login-on-edit plugin. . . .16:20
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StsN800doesn't https already do that?16:21
GeneralAntillesNo16:21
StsN800k16:21
qwerty12Add some annoyances like captcha and some maths questions16:22
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X-FadeAlready there ;)16:22
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qwerty12Shows how much I edit :P16:23
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GeneralAntillesYou wont see them logged in.16:24
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, do you have the right access to install mediawiki extensions these days?16:27
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I have root, even better ;)16:28
GeneralAntillesWoo16:28
qwerty12hehe16:28
GeneralAntillesI'm hunting cool extensions16:28
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X-Fadefiferboy: Did you see?: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-November/035675.html16:29
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jpt9Hey.16:32
jpt9I have a Nokia 770; I'm looking for memory cards for it (still have the 64MB one that came with it).16:32
jpt9I know it has an RS-MMC slot; I'm curious if MMC Mobile cards will also work (I'm pretty sure they're basically the same thing, at least from some of the reviews I've read).16:33
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fiferboyYay!  Looks like a few more minor bugs to fix, though.16:35
X-Fadefiferboy: Well, at least you don't get bored that way :)16:35
fiferboyAnd it beats finding my own bugs.  I like having them pointed out.16:36
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* Stskeeps groans at his beagleboard which seems to eat mmcs16:38
fiferboyX-Fade: What command does the autobuilder run when building a package?  dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot?16:38
jpt9Hey.16:38
jpt9I'm looking for a memory card for my 770; I can't seem to find too many RS-MMC cards around.  I did find one, but the image and description seem to conflict as to whether it's RS-MMC or MMCmobile.16:39
jpt9Are these basically the same thing?  Any specs I need to watch out for?16:39
X-Fadefiferboy: I think so, it should be in the logs too.16:40
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Stskeepsjpt9: .. no need to repeat, if someone knew the direct answer, i'm sure they'd answer :P16:40
jpt9sorry.16:40
fiferboyAh, it is the "root" log that has the build up, and the "build" log has the build output.16:41
fiferboyThanks, makes sense.16:41
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X-Fadefiferboy: Hmm yeah, but the command is not shown.16:41
jpt9Knowing the likely market for the Nokia 770, I'm wondering if most of the people here are geeks that stay on IRC all the time (even when they're asleep) :-)16:41
jpt9I don't do that, but I'm pretty much on all the time I'm awake, even if I'm not paying attention to it.16:42
baabaanyone know why sb2 apt-get update might try to use the real /var/* dirs as opposed to the ones under ~/.maemo-sdk/rootstr...16:42
fiferboyIt builds the source packages too, right?  Not just binaries16:42
Stskeepsjpt9: did you search internettablettalk.com/forums first per chance? i got instant hits regarding 770 and sdhc/mmc/mmc mobile16:43
X-Fadefiferboy: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa -D16:43
fiferboyThanks!16:43
jpt9Stskeeps: Not yet; I have to admit that I completely forgot about those; I haven't used my nokia in a while... (now that I have an OLPC)16:43
jpt9I'll go check there.16:43
X-Fadefiferboy: It uses sbdmock: http://www.bifh.org/wiki/sbdmock16:43
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fiferboyX-Fade: What is the best way to contact Eero if I have some questions about fixing the problems he raised?17:04
* Stskeeps wonders idly if lcuk is high17:04
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GeneralAntillesfiferboy, email. ;)17:05
hahlobitStskeeps: can one run deblet-installer from sdcard diablo?17:06
fiferboyThanks17:06
X-Fadefiferboy: Just reply to him on the list or just email him. He's not a bad guy ;)17:07
fiferboyGotcha, thanks17:08
lcukStskeeps, no just pissed off with bickering folks17:10
* X-Fade wonders if we should record this case in some kind of testing document.17:10
X-FadeShould be a big help to many people.17:10
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Stskeepshahlobit: yes think so17:12
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baabawhat is "sb2 apt" supposed to do exactly?17:20
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baababecause i'm unable to use "sb2 apt-get update" as it apparently tries to use the host's /var/* directories and fails because it doesn't have the rights to do so17:21
Stskeepssb2 -e apt-get update may give a better result17:21
baabano17:22
baabaisn't it supposed to use the rootstrap directories?17:22
r2d2rogersStskeeps: I finally got the other mmc clone to boot on my 770, apparently it's ext2 or I didn't add the right kernel modules.17:22
woglindesb2 -e fakeroot apt  bla17:22
Meiz_n810pybattery shows 47.25 °C temperature... Pretty warm17:23
Meiz_n810backside is hot17:23
Meiz_n810Is this normal?17:23
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: ah, good :)17:23
GeneralAntillesMeiz_n810, well, what are you doing to it?17:23
StskeepsMeiz_n810: wifi power saving not on?17:24
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GeneralAntillesThe hard-ceiling for temperature is somewhere in the 80-90°C range.17:24
Meiz_n810wifi power saving is on, i was downloading big .flv file with browser and watching it with mplayer at the same time17:24
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baaba"fakeroot not installed"17:25
baababut really, am i wrong that it should not even attempt to use the host system's /var?17:25
yergaqwerty12, you around?17:26
qwerty12yerga, yep17:26
yergatake a look: http://yerga.net/files/gftp-gtk_2.0.18-17maemo1_armel.deb17:26
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah, that will do it.. wifi active all the time17:26
qwerty12yerga, cool, thanks, downloading...17:27
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baabaand if not, where might the configuration for that be17:27
yergachanged a bit the UI17:27
baabathe problem appeared after updating to the latest sdk+ version, i guess i should try to go back to the previous one17:27
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Stskeepsqwerty12: btw there was a guy on stlc45xx-devel who says he has decoded CAL, what wlan-cal/stlc45xx-cal actually does.. doesnt have time to write a full doc, but will answer specific questions17:27
qwerty12yerga, brilliant! You may want to remove my name from the About screen though, I was under the impression that I would finish it at the time :)17:29
qwerty12Stskeeps, cool17:29
yerganah, qwerty12, you are well there ;)17:29
Stskeepsbut then again, what are the benefits of knowing CAL? :P17:29
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qwerty12yerga, But that means I'm taking credit for your ui changes, I'll take credit for the packaging though :P17:30
qwerty12Stskeeps, It's good fun :P. Nah, I'd like to be able to switch Rd mode on the fly and for the poor people with a US tablet, they can unlock the full range of frequencies ;)17:31
Stskeepshmm, stlc45xx with IBSS17:32
Stskeepsthat's interesting17:32
Stskeepser..17:32
Stskeepsok, mesh was more intersting17:32
* Stskeeps thought it was AP mode for a sec :P17:34
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nano-When I do: $ sb2 apt-get update17:35
nano-I get this error:17:35
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nano-Err http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk/free Packages Could not open file /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/repository.maemo.org_dists_diablo_sdk_free_binary-i386_Packages - open (30 Read-only file system) [IP: 195.54.111.96 80]17:35
nano-What's up with that? Google gave me nothing :/17:35
sp3000you're not saying if you've checked the obvious17:38
nano-No mount points that I can see are read-only.17:39
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sp3000can you touch in the directory the file it's compaining about is in?17:40
* sp3000 doesn't recall if 'mount' will show remounted-ro cases as ro, or if /proc/mounts is better wrt that17:41
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Stskeepsnano-: sb2 -r apt-get update maybe17:41
nano-I'm not sure what directory it is. This is in sb2-land. Is that in my ~/.meamo-sdk?17:41
Stskeepscant recall the command17:41
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nano-Stskeeps: same result.17:42
Stskeepsthe one to indicate use of fakeroot17:42
Stskeepsand -e?17:42
sp3000it should be searchable I suppose17:42
Stskeeps-r -e17:42
nano-same problem.17:42
Stskeeps#scratchbox maybe :P17:42
* Stskeeps is bothered by same problem in sb2 really17:42
baabanano-, i'm having the same problem, seems sb2 itself mounts the rootstrap that is under .maemo-sdk as ro17:43
sp3000does it protect your files at large by claiming inappropriate FSs are read-only or something?17:43
qwerty12sb1 ftw17:43
nano-yeah, sb1 ftw.17:43
sp3000how's #scratchbox ?17:44
sp3000oh, I'm so late today am I not17:44
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* Stskeeps wouldn't mind local sb2 experts17:44
GeneralAntillessp3000, we're docking all of your awesome points.17:45
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cowbellemooHey, can anyone point me to a wiki (or anything) on Mer?17:52
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Meiz_n810trac.tspre.org/projects/m-r17:55
Stskeepscowbellemoo: er, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC , -- .. launchpad.net/m-r17:56
Stskeeps.. and this place17:56
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cowbellemoo:D thanks all.17:57
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Stskeeps(me, johnx and Meiz_n810 are involved so far on devel side)17:57
Stskeepshttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/hildon-desktop-quicknote-menuxwd.png , http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/hildon-desktop-gqviewxwd.png is about how far we came in iteration 1 when we decided to restart and do it by the book :P17:59
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cowbellemoo:O  I'm not a dev, I just got curious when I started hearing about the ubuntu ARM focus18:05
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GeneralAntillescowbellemoo, not really as exciting as it sounds18:07
lcukdpeends on context, some are more excited than others18:08
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Stskeepscowbellemoo: primary reason for mojo/ubuntu base was cos of upstart and initially that they targeted higher arm versions18:08
cowbellemoomy fanboy quotent is high, so my excitement threshold is low.  :P18:08
Stskeepshehe18:08
Stskeepsand this is just some crazy people trying stuff out :)18:09
GeneralAntillesIt's irritating when your music library gets large enough that you can't just spot a song you can't remember the name of. . . .18:09
lcukcowbellemoo, listen to everything Stskeeps says, but when he starts talking about rainbows and government conspiracies just nod quietly ;)18:09
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: try to sing it in one of those applications ;)18:10
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, it's probably best classified as electronica18:10
lcukGeneralAntilles, playlists should recall most played, or you should be able to simply bash buttons with device in pocket to indicate "i like this song" (alternatively it could mean "Im having a heartattack"18:10
GeneralAntillesand the primary sample seems to be from a bunch of German elementary school students.18:11
GeneralAntilleslcuk, yeah, that would normally help, except my recently played numbers were recently nuked.18:11
lcukwell thats what they get for storing most played tracks in 32bit numbers, its inevitable that "britney spears best hits" will wrap eventually18:12
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GeneralAntillesGuess it's George Clinton for the time being. . . .18:12
lcuki have a couple of coding albums - stuff i can code to, most music puts me off18:13
cowbellemooLemme see if I have this:  Nokia's next gen maemo is (was?) built for a non-backwards-compliant architecture, so making an alternative that was seemed a good idea.  Did the next maemo (fremantle?) become backwards compatable later?18:13
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you must not be listening to the right stuff, then.18:14
GeneralAntillescowbellemoo, huh?18:14
RST38hcowbellmoo: You are talking in past tense about something that has not yet been built18:14
GeneralAntillesUbuntu's move really doesn't have anything to do with Maemo.18:14
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lcukcowbellemoo, fremantle hasnt been released yet - are you posting from the future?18:14
RST38hlcuk: Achtung! He has got crystal balls!18:15
Stskeepscowbellemoo: we have no clear idea if fremantle will exist for N8x0 or not yet18:15
lardmanIt's the LHC!18:15
cowbellemooGeneralAntilles, lcuk, Sorry; I'm just thinking about the specs for fremantle in the past tense18:15
X-Fadelcuk: Don't you have it yet? We have all been playing with it for at least 6 months ;)18:15
lcukmust be18:15
RST38hlarman: Or it WILL BE the LHC18:16
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cowbellemooStskeeps, Ah, that clears alot up.18:16
MyrttiIANAMDAN should be added to every comment ;-)18:16
Stskeepscowbellemoo: and the Mer thing wouldn't influence fremantle, probably - except in the opening of some things / minor changes18:16
lcukx-fade, ive had it since march, what do you think liqbase is built from ;)18:16
lardmanRST38h: unless those who came back before the suspicious helium leak sabotaged it to stop others.....18:16
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StskeepsMyrtti: IANAMDAN? :P18:16
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MyrttiStskeeps: I Am Not A Maemo Developer At Nokia18:16
Stskeepsah18:16
RST38hlardman: The helium leak was the comeback event, I guess18:16
lcukoh myrtti, i thought you meant the guy who started the excellent FUCK FUCK FUCK thread18:17
Myrttilol18:17
lcukoh sorry, thats iamnotdrtran18:17
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lcukclose ;)18:18
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RST38hHave Maemo mailing lists finally deteriorated to FUCK FUCK FUCK?18:18
lcukno but jaiku ones have18:18
MyrttiRST38h: no, talking about jaiku threads18:18
lcukquite relaxing at first actually, now its kinda sad18:18
baabait does demonstrate considerable restraint that it hasn't gone to that :P18:19
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Havifuckfuckfuck18:19
lcuklike those days you go to the coast and scream at the seaside knowing no1 is listening18:19
woglindedas ist witzig18:19
woglindeups18:19
woglindesorry18:19
RST38hoh18:19
RST38hlcuk: [scared] You do that?18:19
lardmanlcuk: what's the seaside done to you?18:20
Myrttilcuk: I have my own IRC prayer for that18:20
MyrttiI recite it all over and over again, and play few rounds of same gnome or something18:20
* GeneralAntilles sighs at the new Mark™ comment.18:20
lcukheh @ u lot.  the seaside is just someone who doesnt care how loud you shout at it18:20
lcukit could be in your car after annoying cow orkers get to you, or at other opportune moments where swearing at people would be frowned upon18:21
RST38hGeneral: Show! Show us his might!18:21
Stskeepslcuk: i did that with forests :P18:21
Stskeepspoor forests.18:21
RST38hSts: Try catching a squirrel and skinning it live next time!18:21
lcuklol, did you see any bears crapping?18:22
GeneralAntilleshttp://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-November/023234.html18:22
lcukspeaking of cow orkers,  bbl anyway18:23
X-Fadebacon?18:23
lardmanlcuk: I just swear at people18:23
lardmanlcuk: far more satisfying18:23
lardman^ directly18:23
lcukyes, but tact is important18:24
lcukand i dont think ive ever actually swore at someone in anger :$18:24
RST38hGeneral: Well, he has got one thing right - the User/Developer division at Maemo.org may have to be clarified and the site should be advertised as the site for both18:24
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lcukbbl18:24
* RST38h becomes very polite when angered18:24
* lardman sends letters when annoyed18:25
RST38hVery, VERY polite. Almost like a lawyer. People absolutely LOVE that.18:25
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm sad to say but i thought maemo-users was for tablet users, too :P18:25
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, it is, now.18:25
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GeneralAntillesmaemo.org is the home of the Maemo Community18:26
GeneralAntillesIt's as simple as that.18:26
Stskeepswas nokia shifting away from OS notation and calling it Maemo now btw?18:26
GeneralAntillesYes18:26
Stskeepsk18:26
GeneralAntillesFremantle is Maemo 518:26
GeneralAntillesThe problem is, "maemo" was traditionally the development platform18:26
X-FadeWhich reminds me, we need to do a /downloads/ reorg ;)18:26
GeneralAntillesSo somebody who used "maemo" was a developer18:26
RST38hX-Fade: You finally need to insure all karma components show up in profile =)18:27
GeneralAntillesPeople who developed the platform used maemo-developers18:27
X-FadeRST38h: They do?18:27
GeneralAntillesAt some point that became people who develop for Maemo and people who use Maemo.18:27
RST38hX-Fade: Right now it truncates some data (like list of apps) and seems to hide certain components completely18:27
RST38hX-Fade: not for me - right now I am missing itt_thanks18:28
X-FadeRST38h: Ah, yeah that is per design spec. But can be changed.18:28
RST38hX-Fade: it was other fields before that18:28
X-FadeRST38h: And it does show posts?18:28
lardmanbah, silly Americans and using insure instead of ensure ;)18:28
RST38hX-Fade: Yea, the truncation thing is obviously by design, but the missing components is not18:28
RST38hlardman: they use both18:28
lardmanX-Fade: i agree that the lists should be fully visible18:28
lardmanRST38h: so you're not one of them?18:29
RST38hX-Fade: Yes it shows posts18:29
RST38hlardman: I am more like the Odo guy in StarTrek18:29
X-FadeRST38h: We fetch those counts directly from itT, so perhaps there was a disconnect.18:29
lardmanyou can turn into a cabbage? (or arbitrary object)18:29
lardmanor is that the wrong chap :D18:29
RST38hX-Fade: It looks like the score is actually counted, just not shown18:30
X-FadeRST38h: Btw, when was the last time you logged in at maemo.org?18:30
RST38hlardman: yea, although lacking this particular ability :)18:30
RST38hX-Fade: Today.18:30
lardmanlol18:30
X-FadeHmm..18:30
X-FadeNeed to go now, bbl.18:30
RST38hg'luck =)18:31
lardmanRST38h: I'm suffering from missing groups too18:31
lardmanand missing Discussion for that matter18:31
Stskeepshm, did qtopia have a PIM, btw?18:32
RST38hit did18:32
Stskeeps.. wasn't that trolltech?18:32
RST38hYep.18:32
RST38httg home18:32
Stskeeps.. why the hell don't nokia use that then?18:32
Stskeeps:P18:32
RST38hBTW, what is that Trolltech logo guy so scared of? Is he looking at Nokia people closing in?18:33
RST38hhttp://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia2.0/html/face.png18:33
HaviLol18:33
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GeneralAntilleslardman, what does that have to do with Americans?18:33
GeneralAntillesWe use those words the same way you do. . . .18:33
lardmanreally?18:35
GeneralAntillesYes, really.18:35
GeneralAntillesPeople are just stupid.18:35
lardmanOh, I seem to read lots of stuff that always says insure, so I assumed it was used to cover both18:35
GeneralAntillesNo18:35
lardmanfair enough, my mistake, i take it back18:35
GeneralAntillesIt's like to and too.18:35
lardmanone less black mark against you lot ;) (still don't like the zed/zees mind you :) )18:36
lardmanGeneralAntilles: yeah, just use 2 shorter to text18:36
sp3000hm, how do I convince apt that it won't need /var/lib/dpkg/lock18:36
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* sp3000 just wants to apt-get update and maybe apt-get search with no intention of doing anything that needs root18:37
HaviDamned Americans18:38
HaviEspecially middle-North Americans18:38
HaviI hate them so much18:38
lardmanHavi: I wasn't going quite that far!18:38
GeneralAntillesHavi's a self-hating American.18:39
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: Jaunty has synaptic :)18:43
Stskeepsneat18:43
Meiz_n810i don't understand why mojo releases don't18:43
* sp3000 doesn't want to go through a fakechroot dance18:43
lardmansp3000: presumably the apt db accesses are non-atomic18:45
* GeneralAntilles plays a Polka for sp3000.18:46
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baabasp3000, sdk+?18:46
sp3000lardman: sure, but I'm not interested in touching any database in the neighborhood of the lock it insists on getting18:47
sp3000and I don't see an option to configure that path :(18:47
lardmansp3000: ah, do you not have write access to the location then?18:49
sp3000I don't want to clobber the system's dpkg foo :)18:49
lardmansp3000: I was thinking of the design of the apt database system, presumably it doesn't work with a server, so you must open it exclusively, which means a lock18:49
sp3000I'm ok with locking, I just want a different "it"18:50
lardmanI've no quick-fix ideas I'm afraid18:51
sp3000ooh18:51
sp3000ok, so yeah, the config example was confusing18:51
GAN800Anybody have an idea of what it'll take to get easy-to-install AIM/Yahoo/MSN support out of the box for rtcomm?18:51
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sp3000Dir "/" ->   State "var/lib/apt/" ->      status "/var/lib/dpkg/status"; is the one I want, but the var/lib/apt bit distracted me18:52
lardmanGAN800: the extra protocols aren't the issue though are they, it's rtcomm itself?18:54
lardmansp3000: no idea, sorry, use dpkg directly?18:55
sp3000no, I should be ok now, I found the right config (for this bit, dunno if more evil lurks behind the corner)18:55
GAN800lardman, they're installable from the Colabora repo with two packages.18:56
qwerty12The question should be, what will it take for Nokia to finally include the rtcomm beta preinstalled? Minus MSN support, the other components have had no problems :)18:57
lardmandirectly and without needing Red Pill?18:57
lardmanah, I see18:57
lardmanwell I guess it will come as it was/is a beta still18:57
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woglindebye till later18:58
qwerty12yerga, yeah, I forgot to mention I forgot to include the hildon & osso build-deps :/18:58
woglindeqwerty haha18:58
yergaqwerty12, ;)18:58
yergano problem I will upload it again18:59
GAN800qwerty12, legal issue18:59
GAN800Gotta license with the providers.18:59
qwerty12woglinde, :P, I'm not used to adding build deps because scratchbox has everything :P18:59
lardmancu tomorrow chaps18:59
qwerty12GAN800, Ah, fair enough :)18:59
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qwerty12bye lardman|gone, woglinde18:59
qwerty12yerga, hehe ;P18:59
yergaqwerty12, is necessary libssl 0.9.8?18:59
yergachinook only has 0.9.719:00
qwerty12yerga, nope, change it to (>= 0.9.7) if you wish, diablo build should still use 0.9.819:00
yergayeah, will change it for chinook19:01
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sp3000ahh19:01
* sp3000 wins, I think19:02
qwerty121 - 0 to sp300019:02
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sp3000needed « Dir "/path/where-ever"; Dir::State::status "/path/where-ever/var/lib/dpkg/status"; »19:03
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* Stskeeps boils up the armel builder19:14
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qwerty12~seen dannym19:15
infobotdannym <i=d5960157@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7d8b24642712a741> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 45d 8h 8m 35s ago, saying: 'hi'.19:15
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Stskeepsmm, snow outside19:48
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lcukStskeeps, not good19:50
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slonopotamushi20:08
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slonopotamuswhere i can get deblet's bootmenu sources?20:08
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slonopotamusdeblet-installer has Depends: bootmenu20:09
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suihkulokkislonopotamus: somewhere under here: http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser20:09
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slonopotamusnope20:10
slonopotamussearched there20:10
slonopotamusopensource... huh.20:12
qwerty12slonopotamus, bootmenu is a script...20:12
slonopotamusdeblet-installer has Depends: bootmenu20:12
qwerty12Minus that, https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=8020:12
qwerty12So?20:13
slonopotamushm20:13
slonopotamusscript dependency?20:13
qwerty12bootmenu gets installed along with the deblet installer20:13
scriptdependency who?20:14
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slonopotamus:D20:14
qwerty12script, time to change your nick :P20:14
script;)20:14
slonopotamusomg20:14
scriptonce a month ..20:14
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slonopotamusqwerty12, bootmenu is a package, from your link.20:16
qwerty12slonopotamus, yeah, I said it's a script in response to your opensource comment20:17
slonopotamusqwerty12, is that thing a 'fanoush bootmenu'.?20:17
qwerty12slonopotamus, I guess. With Stskeeps's item.d modification20:17
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slonopotamusand with a feature for loading on-mmc linuxrc?20:18
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slonopotamuscp /mnt/new_root/$2 /tmp/linuxrc20:19
slonopotamusahha20:19
RST38hmoo.20:19
slonopotamusthat 'fanoush bootmenu' is fanousher than mine20:19
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slonopotamuseveryone's cheating... lost an hour trying to understand why my 'fanoush bootmenu' doesn't read linuxrc from partition20:22
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qwerty12Sigh.. The joys of finding one of your friends on a warez site...20:22
Mousey^_^20:22
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lcukqwerty12, could be worse - i assume your mum uses an alias :P20:24
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qwerty12lcuk, lol, she can't even use the computer (sorry mum) :P20:25
lcukheh20:25
* lcuk is freezing20:25
qwerty12Oi, my mum isn't my friend :P20:26
* qwerty12 is slow today20:26
lcukdifferent to usual? :P20:26
* qwerty12 slips another northener crack in lcuk's preinst20:27
lcuk:D20:28
qwerty12:P :D20:28
lcukany idea why gan only found a really long lens blurry shot of dneary?20:28
lcukits like one of those pictures you see in the newspaper "police are looking for. ..."20:28
dnearylcuk: Because I ran away?20:28
qwerty12dneary's in hiding20:29
lcukheh20:29
dnearylcuk: Which picture are you talking about?20:29
lcukhttps://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team20:29
dnearyI can ship you one if needs be20:29
lcuknot me20:29
lcukim just a user20:29
dnearyI think it's because he took IM buddy icons20:29
dnearyHe didn't ask me for a photo20:29
lcukyeah most likely20:29
dnearyOr maemo.org buddy icons20:29
lcukactually, it reminds me more of those lock ness photos20:30
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lcukhow you doin dave20:30
Myrttiholy heck the COSS logo on maemo.org front page scared me20:31
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lcukits quite stark20:31
MyrttiI'm mainly just bored with it20:32
MyrttiYMMV.20:32
* lcuk has never seen it to be bored20:32
lcukbut its not very exciting20:32
lcukit doesnt fill me with happy thoughts20:33
MyrttiI still have few of my old business cards left :->20:33
lcukwhat should it be?20:33
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Myrtti*yawn*20:34
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lcukMyrtti, could you do something create with them? (make a small bonfire in your room or something?)20:35
Myrttinaah, I can still give them away20:35
Myrttibut when I'm out, I'm out.20:35
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Myrttiwhich reminds me that I've still not ordered Ubuntu business cards.20:36
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hahlobitthis bootloader is too complicated to me :P always some os doesn't boot :P20:53
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mikkov_fiferboy: ping21:09
fiferboymikkov_: Hi21:09
mikkov_hi21:13
guysoft42hey, does anyone have any kind of information on the microb browser and extensions building for it? because we got foxmarks employees interested in it: http://getsatisfaction.com/foxmarks/topics/foxmarks_on_maemo_microb_browser?utm_content=reply_link&utm_medium=email&utm_source=reply_notification#reply_67786421:13
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mikkov_fiferboy: boost is coming up ;)21:13
fiferboyWith serialization?21:14
mikkov_yes21:14
fiferboyWow!  Thanks!21:14
mikkov_wave failed on me this time, but I'Ã'll make another try21:14
fiferboyI don't know how you managed to get it to build.  It always chokes near the start for me21:14
mikkov_it's some toolchain issue21:14
mikkov_I have it too ;)21:14
fiferboyThat just makes it more impressive21:15
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dnearylcuk: This better for you? https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Dave_and_sean_small.jpg21:16
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fiferboymikkov_: Do you know if regex is going to be built?21:21
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oli-n800could anyone be so kind and test gtalk video calls with me? plz /q if so ;)21:24
mikkov_fiferboy: gotta wait and see ;) I enable it for next build but I haven't tested it21:25
lcukdneary, :d heh yeah, you have focus and clarity (how olds your little one now?)21:26
dnearyHe'll be 2 in July21:26
dnearySo... 16 months?21:26
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mikkov_fiferboy: but serialization I tested with my other machine. It's just faster to test with autobuilder because my machines are pretty slow21:28
fiferboyThat's fantastic.  Thanks for doing the legwork getting boost working.21:29
lcuk:D awww dneary mine are much bigger now, just watch for the terrible twos :P21:30
dnearyThat one's my third - been there, done that :)21:31
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RST38hmoo21:32
dnearyThomas: 7 in June, Paul: 4 in March, Sean: 2 in July21:33
rm_youqwerty12_N800: ping21:33
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qwerty12_N800rm_you, pong21:34
rm_youstatus of rotation-support/mmc/etc kernel as of latest diablo update?21:34
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rm_youbeen away for a while21:34
rm_youneed to find a new kernel21:34
qwerty12_N800rm_you, works, www.outpo.st/rotate21:34
lcukdneary haha then you have been busy21:34
dnearyand will be for another 16 years or so21:34
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dnearyBye :)21:35
rm_youwtf21:35
qwerty12_N800rm_you, not my link, wait...21:35
rm_youmy DNS doesn't know www.outpo.st21:35
rm_youisn't that right?21:35
rm_youit's jott's hosting21:35
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qwerty12_N800~rotate21:35
qwerty12_N800~rotation21:35
qwerty12_N800bollox21:36
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rm_youwtf21:36
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rm_youthe google cache works but the page won't load with my current DNS21:36
qwerty12_N800rm_you, http://outpo.st/rotate/ - jott doesn't  believe in www. :)21:37
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qwerty12_N800that 1 click install don't work  with current app-mgr, add repo and apt-get  install rotation-support-n80021:38
rm_youno srsly, my dns can't find outpo.st21:38
rm_youwtf21:38
rm_youswitching to verizon DNS servers21:40
RST38hrm_me21:40
* lcuk sneezes21:43
rm_youbah have to do this later21:45
rm_youlate for work21:45
* rm_you grumbles21:45
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fiferboymikkov_: Do you packages build for chinook as well?21:47
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bef0rd~flashing21:51
infoboti heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware21:51
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hahlobit /sb end21:52
hahlobitups space21:52
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lcukdoes anyone have experience with SDL_TTF fonts22:01
lcuk(whether in maemo or not)22:02
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: deblet bootmenu src is at garage bootmenu svn btw22:27
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, i know, i gave him the link to garage22:28
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Stskeepsah22:29
Stskeepssorry, just woke up after a nap that was longer than it was supposed to be :P22:30
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RST38hAll right, gentlemen, here is the second Android Phone!22:33
RST38hhttp://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/11/zzzandroid.jpg22:33
RST38h(do try not to throw up)22:33
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Stskeepsis that a sex toy or a phone?22:40
doc|homewhy would they have to be mutually exclusive?22:40
X-Fade"Menu now conforms to UI spec v 1.422:40
X-FadeInteresting ;)22:41
* Stskeeps is annoyed libhildon isn't being updated in public22:42
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Stskeepsbut that's an interesting thing to write an article about22:44
* l7 makes a mental note never to borrow doc|home's phone22:45
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* doc|home switches off vibrate :/22:45
Stskeepscompetiveness in hw markets by doing offline development, which you contribute close enough to release/announcement, so cheap chinese producers can't possibly catch up22:45
l7lol22:45
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jahorhi does exist some app to have two page up/down virtual keys on the screen to have easy accessible scrolling on n810 please?22:47
Stskeepsthink pdf uses something like that22:47
l7jahor: like in osso xterm?22:47
jahornope. idealy on right top and bottom edge of the screen22:49
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jahorwhen reading in public transport .. deadly usable without opening the keyboard22:50
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* lcuk thinks he just added double buffering to liqbase but cant tell the difference in speed22:58
Stskeepsheh, neat http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/11/24/nokia-build-website-lets-your-dream-7310-supernova-come-alive/ - themeing your physical look of your phone22:59
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: heh, glib build is 3 hours 30 minutes so far..23:04
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* lcuk bangs head on wall23:06
Stskeepsforgot to draw into the buffer, then switch, and just drew on both? :P23:07
lcukno i left the wait until render complete23:09
Stskeepsah23:10
lcukie even though i was switching buffers i was still going slowly23:10
lcukbut its barely noticable even now :|23:10
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Stskeepsi've found it's hard to determine UI perfromance23:11
Stskeepsperformance23:11
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Stskeepsi mean, you can see if something is slow, but i've lost the ability to tell if a boot sequence is 30 or 45 secos23:11
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lcukget a big clock displaying seconds and you will keep track23:12
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Stskeepsyeah, i had to resort to timing it23:13
lcukballsack!23:15
lcuksingle buffering drawing sketch:   i simply append the tiny bit of new data onto the already existing sketch.  refresh.    works a charm and is quick23:16
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lcuknow, i have 2 broken sketch portions23:16
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l7why does /tmp only show up as 512k when i invoke du?23:18
l7i'm sure i have more virtual memory than that23:18
qwerty12_N800/tmp != VM23:19
qwerty12_N800tmp is mounted on the initfs partition which is 2mb23:19
qwerty12_N800use /var/tmp to store tmp files if the need arises23:20
l7ah23:22
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guysoft422hey, i was thinking on installing the android like so:  http://www.talkandroid.com/134-android-nokia-n810-install/ . the thing is  i have my primary OS on mmc2, will this screw up my bootloader?23:26
l7oh right, free is the proper command to check vm23:28
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guysoft422qwerty12_N800,did you you build the android installer?23:33
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Stskeepswtf, olpc xo's need developer keys? .. :P23:35
qwerty12_N800guysoft422, just the diablo kernel (the patch wasn't mine but i did some work in bringing it from chinook)23:36
Stskeepssigned firmware and all23:37
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Stskeepshas the world gone mad or are tablets and freerunner the last bastions regarding open devices? :P23:37
guysoft422qwerty12_N800, if i have a system on mmc2, and i run that.. will it destroy it?23:38
l7it's the last alliance of tablets and freerunners23:39
l7everyone else joined Mordor23:39
l7there is Android, but it doesn't seem that free to me23:39
RST38hHo ho ho ho23:40
l7why does olpc require developer keys?23:40
* RST38h plays with his ring23:40
RST38hl7: Stupid people think that having signed apps protects their product from viruses23:40
qwerty12_N800guysoft422, no idea23:41
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qwerty12_N800RST38h, symbian really took the piss there :\23:42
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qwerty12_N800guysoft422, that android is v.old now though23:43
guysoft422qwerty12_N800, ah, do you know of a new one then?23:44
qwerty12_N800no :/23:44
l7oh yeah symbian is open source23:45
l7hrm, an openssh client session uses less than 400k23:45
Stskeepsl7: open platform, closed devices23:46
Stskeeps(android)23:46
Stskeepsl7: i have no clue why it requires developer keys, i was surprised too23:46
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Stskeepshttp://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activation_and_Developer_Keys23:47
RST38hqwerty: Yea, it allows self signed certificates23:47
l7a roxterm tab uses about 1700k on the other hand23:47
RST38hqwerty: Which kinda defeats purpose of signing23:47
RST38hAnd not having those certificates makes development impossible23:47
RST38hHeheheheheheee: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/11/Sony_Reader_PRS-700_review_opener.jpg23:48
qwerty12_N800RST38h, i just remember all the crap I had to go through to install binpda stuff :P23:49
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l7RST38h: which article is that from?23:52
aquatixRST38h: thanks, now i have to buy another keyboard23:54
aquatixwhoops23:54
aquatixscrollback error23:55
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aquatixRST38h: was talking about that android phone23:55
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* qwerty12_N800 gives aquatix a ticket to go to the present23:55
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l7the sony reader looks pretty neat23:56
l7now that it can annotate23:56
aquatixqwerty12_N800: thanks!23:57
qwerty12_N800:D23:57
* aquatix is present again \o/23:57
lcukaquatix, make sure you only redeem that ticket once or it will be like groundhog day23:57
aquatixlcuk: ooh23:58
aquatixthat'd be... interesting :/23:58
* aquatix also remembers an X-Files episode23:58
l7aquatix: hmm, why do you need a new keyboard?23:59
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