IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-11-22

matrxwas your nap paired and listed as your phone under the control panel?  that part took me forever00:00
matrxor rather, how far have you gotten so far?00:01
mik_i select the dummy connection, in the upper right corner: connected to "myphone"00:01
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mik_hmm, works now00:02
mik_seems like my windows device had needed the reboot in the morning ;)00:02
matrxi found it was somewhat flakey, sometimes it doesn't connect, sometimes it times out00:02
matrxi need to usually reboot my winmo6 phone after a broken or timed out pan connect or i get unexpected results00:04
matrxand the nit00:04
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mik_just writing over pan...00:05
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sp3000hmm, fun daemon project00:14
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sp3000listen to activity/inactivity signals on dbus, eat up /proc, complain about app that consumed cpu above a threshold while idle00:15
sp3000have a neat little db of user-understandable strings to present for each process that's likely to occur and isn't self-explanatory00:16
sp3000(say, hildon-desktop)00:16
GeneralAntillesHahaha00:16
GeneralAntillesThat thread on -users would be priceless if it weren't so frightening.00:16
ShadowJK_link?00:16
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sp3000the hell?00:17
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sp3000http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/ is a pretty nice compact list, it turns out00:17
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sp3000although, if a thread spans multiple days, where will it appear -- on the starting day?00:18
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sp3000(or, say, the last active day)00:18
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GeneralAntilleshttp://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-November/023123.html00:21
zakkmlol00:22
zakkmhow would maemo reconstruct be to use it?00:22
Stskeepszakkm: hildon or whatever desktop you want to run, ideally00:23
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zakkmfvwm-crystal ....00:23
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zakkmdoes wifi ands tuff work fine?00:23
zakkmbattery life?00:23
Stskeepsthat's the goal.00:23
Stskeepswe're still experimenting :P00:23
zakkmdoes it work fine currently though?00:24
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Stskeepsright now it's kinda like humping a concrete wall00:24
Stskeepsnot entirely unpleasant but not fullfilling in any way00:24
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Stskeeps(ie, developer only :P)00:24
sp3000GeneralAntilles: ahh, excellent stuff00:25
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* sp3000 wonders what plausible useful purpose mark might have in mind in posting to the list00:30
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qgi1why server crashes and mailing list flames happen always on a Friday evening?00:33
GeneralAntillesHe's like a more distinctly evil and less sane version of Darius00:33
GeneralAntillesqgi1, one wonders.00:33
qgi1is Mark or sebas in this chat room, any chance?00:33
GeneralAntillesqgi1, personally I think it's a grand conspiracy by Nokia to keep the little guy down. ;)00:34
Stskeepsqgi1: to make administrators want to go out and drink in town when it's fixed, and be social :P00:34
GeneralAntillesqgi1, and, no, I don't believe they are.00:34
qgi1whatever00:34
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qgi1better leave it during the weekend, maybe by Monday Maemo has been also th cause of the global crisis00:35
GeneralAntillesqwerty12 should just upload all of his pen-testing tools to Extras.00:35
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sp3000that said, maybe the repos reduction task should have some refinement to try to make sure packages don't fall off the edge of the map like in this case00:36
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lcukgrrrr i always think pen-testing is something touch related00:36
lcukhiya qgi100:36
sp3000or, that the reasons for it are documented00:37
GeneralAntillessp3000, it's totally on the repository owners.00:37
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GeneralAntillesThe process was: move your packages to Extras, close your repo.00:37
GeneralAntillesWhich most owners who have closed their repos have done.00:37
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GeneralAntillesAnyway, I'm pretty sure I can get qwerty12 to upload kismet, so (at least for this particular case) it may reduce the insanity a bit.00:38
* Stskeeps makes a mental note to steer way clear of that thread00:39
sp3000yeah, I just wonder if there could be some way to handle orphaned packages more visibly so that it's clear that they need a maintainer and aren't just being ignored or something00:39
GeneralAntillesI'm going to fly over with my 747 full of lake water and never look back. ;)00:39
* Stskeeps goes back to branching and compiling.00:40
sp3000or, the status on eko.one just says CLOSED, no tracking of what happened to the packages00:40
qgi1but isn't he talking about Kismet for the 770? aka OS2006?00:40
sp3000I'm not sure if it's feasible in practice to do that tracking00:40
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories00:40
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GeneralAntillesWell, that's a general overview of what percentage of packages had been moved at the time of the request.00:41
sp3000oh, right, thre's a number00:41
GeneralAntillesBut, yes, that information isn't particularly well structured or detailed.00:41
GeneralAntillesI think the particular problem here is that most people want to do the Right Thing, and the Eko1 owner just didn't care.00:42
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sp3000extras shouldn't be in green when <oldrepo ;)00:42
GeneralAntillessp3000, well, it's not Extras that's green, it's the old repository's status.00:43
qgi1maybe he hasn't been active since the Mistral times... and when he got the request to move to the new extras he simply closed down the shop00:43
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sp3000yeah yeah it's the row, ut if you read it less generously you could interpret it as this being a positive outcome00:43
GeneralAntillesqgi1, that's my feeling.00:44
sp3000yeah that sounds likely, I can't remember that being mentioned in a sort of recent context00:44
lcuksounds reasonable qgi1, as I attempted to point out in the mail.  people move on, but maemo.org will remain and anyone who can should try to get stuff into extras00:44
sp3000the root of the site only mentions 77000:44
Stskeepslcuk: and this definately illustrates the need for centralized extras.. people move on00:46
Stskeeps(except with the maemo.org getting run over by a bus scenario, but yeah)00:46
lcukyeah Stskeeps its a fact of life, and these nokia devices will remain in peoples hands for years to come, it would be nice to know my software will still be installable and runnable without having to jump through hoops00:47
qgi1anyway, I won't answer there until Monday. My work laptop is at the office and I don't feel like answering from my mobile phone.  :)00:47
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lcukqgi1,  secret touchscreen model by any chance?00:48
GeneralAntillesHehe00:48
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qgi1lcuk: an E71 actually00:52
qgi1nice piece of hardware, I must say00:52
lcukyes, lots of people raving :)00:52
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flo_laphi qgi100:55
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lcukbbiab anyway (hiya and bye florian)00:56
lcukcya later qgi100:56
flo_laplcuk: hi and cu00:56
qgi1bye00:57
qgi1me too zzzzzz00:57
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guysoft42hey, is there a way to get pycard running on maemo?01:35
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eye-on-pixelhe01:50
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eye-on-pixelwho is there?01:54
zakkmme01:54
zakkmbut i dont think i matter ;p01:54
eye-on-pixeloh yeah... i think the same for me... really, i'm not here01:56
* aquatix doesn't matter that much either01:56
* GeneralAntilles declares the whole room useless.01:56
aquatixi even wonder what i'm still doing here at this time01:57
GeneralAntillesNow we're all equal. :P01:57
aquatixyay01:57
GeneralAntillesaquatix, insomnia? :P01:57
aquatixcreating it, yes ;)01:57
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zakkmfor gadgets, some deem it worth it...01:58
eye-on-pixeldreams creates the insomnia of the next day..01:58
zakkmtouching.01:58
zakkm;p01:58
zakkmGeneralAntilles: you have Mac OSX right?01:59
aquatixeye-on-pixel: that bad ey?01:59
GeneralAntilleszakkm, yes.01:59
zakkmdid you get usb or bluetooth networking ever working?01:59
eye-on-pixelsomeone has one n800 with the battery drain problem?02:00
eye-on-pixel..with a diablo inside, i mean...02:01
GeneralAntilleszakkm, Bluetooth should be dead easy.02:01
GeneralAntilles~bluetooth-pan02:02
infobotbluetooth-pan is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN02:02
GeneralAntillesYou may have to manhandle it a bit to get it to accept a computer as a client02:02
GeneralAntillesbut the PAN setup is Leopard is dead simple02:02
GeneralAntillesCheck maemo-users for a thread about it.02:02
eye-on-pixelthanks..02:03
zakkmk thanks02:03
zakkmgoing to get the adapter tomorrow then02:03
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zakkmin music playback, how long do you think the n800 will last?02:22
zakkmmusic playback, screen off..02:22
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doc|homescreen makes a big difference for battery02:28
GeneralAntilles10 hours02:28
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* Stskeeps taps his fingertips on the table waiting for launchpad02:37
zakkmoh cool :)02:40
zakkmwould mpd playback help vs the builtin media player.. in terms of battery life?02:41
GeneralAntillesGStreamer will be the most efficient MP3 playback.02:41
zakkmnot mpd?02:41
zakkmmpd gave some insanely low cpu usages on my pc02:42
Stskeepsmm. <3 gmail's new "Terminal" theme.02:42
GeneralAntilleszakkm, DSP usage.02:42
zakkm?02:43
zakkmwhat is DSP exactly?02:43
Stskeepszakkm: digital signal processor02:43
* zakkm is a fan of shiny for gmail02:43
GeneralAntillesHurts my eyes.02:43
zakkmso gstreamer is better than mpd for nokia?02:44
doc|homeStskeeps: low?! mpd is using crazy cpu on mine02:44
zakkmi said it was giving low ;p02:44
zakkmon desktop pc?02:44
doc|homenot for me02:44
doc|homeyeah02:44
zakkmnot nokia02:44
zakkmit gave me like 0.3% on my old pc02:44
zakkmsonata + mpd02:44
doc|homelike 26% cpu usage on amd64 X2 4400+02:45
zakkmsomethings wrong ;p02:45
zakkmnice pc :)02:46
zakkmx2 4400+02:46
zakkmshould give like 0.05% for mpd ;p02:46
doc|homeyep02:48
doc|homeit's an old pc now, almost 2 years :)02:48
guysoft42does anyone know here Christoph Wֳrstle?02:58
guysoft42Christoph Würstle*02:58
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Stskeepshm, when was icd closed btw?03:11
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GeneralAntillesDunno03:25
GeneralAntillesOS2007, maybe?03:25
Stskeepsk03:25
* Stskeeps ponders what implication/ease having i386 mer will have on our development03:25
Stskeepsat least we'll know compilation problems before making arm boxes compile away.. :P03:26
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guysoft42oh well another question - can i just solder two usb female connectors to make a female-female adapter? because they dont seem to be selling them here..03:31
Proteousyou shouldn't need a female-female adapter03:32
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Proteousare you one of those people who think if they could just fine the right addaptor they could totaly plug their 240v washing machine into the 120 plug and all thier problems would be solved03:32
l7has anyone noticed problems when rebooting while the charger is plugged in?03:33
Proteousalways03:33
guysoft42Proteous, no.. but i do live in the land of 240V03:33
Proteousyeah, I figured that might happen about halfway through that sentence03:33
guysoft42Proteous, so what do i need to cross the cable road to usbhost?03:33
mikkov_it does not really reboot when charger is plugged in03:33
GeneralAntillesl7, what sort of problems03:33
Proteouswhen charging the nokia tablets are in a half booted state03:34
Proteousthey dont' shut down all the way while plugged in03:35
l7GeneralAntilles: like rendering the device unbootable03:35
Proteousmake sure you hold in the power button for a while03:35
GeneralAntillesl7, don't turn it off.03:36
GeneralAntillesThat's the best solution.03:36
Proteouson the n810 you have to hold the power button long enough for the blue light to be on for about 2 seconds before releasing it03:36
l7i noticed you cannot perform a turn off and turn the device on while it's plugged in03:36
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l7Proteous: same thing on the N80003:37
GeneralAntillesl7, right03:37
GeneralAntillesIt has to be booted to charge.03:37
GeneralAntillesJust leave it on.03:37
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guysoft42Proteous, so what do i need to get usb host? if not a female-famale adapter?03:37
Proteousguysoft42: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1409203:38
GeneralAntilles~usb-host03:38
l7that's what made me wonder if issuing a reboot command while plugged in could cause issues03:38
smackpotatowow just got in the right conversation03:38
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode03:38
Proteousthat too03:39
smackpotatoi have root and i have the hardware set up what do i do next to see a flash drive on 77003:39
Proteoussomething to power the flash drive03:40
Proteous770s don't give any power out the USB socket03:41
Proteousso you have to either go through a powered hub or rig something up yourself03:41
l7does the hildon desktop crash alot for anyone else?03:41
Proteousno03:41
Proteouswhat device do you have 1703:41
smackpotatoi have a hub and f-f connector03:41
guysoft42Proteous, isnt there a sainer way for this?03:42
smackpotatois it a problem being formated fat3203:42
l7Proteous: n800 - usually it's the thinkoutside keyboard that crashes the device03:43
Proteousguysoft42: did you see: https://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode03:43
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Proteousguysoft42: it has some links to premade cables as well as some software solutions03:43
smackpotatodo i have to download drivers03:43
GeneralAntillesl7, yeah, and that fucking bug is WONTFIX03:43
GeneralAntillesLame shit.03:43
guysoft42GeneralAntilles, yes, it doess not seem to have much hardware info/03:44
GeneralAntillesguysoft42, click the links. . . .03:44
guysoft42by a "dumb" connector they mean a famale-female adaptor?03:44
GeneralAntillesThe guy will ship anywhere03:44
GeneralAntillesNice premade cables.03:44
l7GeneralAntilles: i was afraid of that.  why won't they fix it?03:44
GeneralAntillesl7, low priority03:45
GeneralAntillesI don't know.03:45
GeneralAntillesI can't get the Desktop team to fix any of my bugs.03:45
l7bleh, maybe their fix is to get an n81003:46
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GeneralAntillesl7, same crash.03:46
guysoft42GeneralAntilles, how do you contact the persion?03:48
l7GeneralAntilles: does it usually happen if you hit a lot of keys on they keyboard before bluetooth connects?03:48
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GeneralAntilleshttp://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_67&products_id=2004 http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_67&products_id=204303:50
GeneralAntillesl7, I had the suspicion, but testing never really confirmed it.03:51
l7when does it crash for you?03:51
GeneralAntillesSometimes when the keyboard reconnects.03:51
GeneralAntillesabout 1 out of 5 times.03:51
l7i can usually get the desktop to crash consistently if i enter a lot of keystrokes before bluetooth fully connects03:52
l7does the keyboard bug ever force your tablet to shut down?03:52
GeneralAntillesNo03:53
GeneralAntillesJust desktop crashes.03:53
GeneralAntillesDoesn't crash anything critical03:53
l7hrm03:53
zakkmGeneralAntilles: do they ship to canada?03:53
l7maybe a certain combination of keys that sends a shutdown signal03:53
GeneralAntilleszakkm, they're in Canada.03:53
l7can you get your desktop widgets back without rebooting after a desktop crash?03:53
zakkmever bought from them03:53
zakkmthe usb ethernet one seems worth it03:54
l7i've noticed OM weather refuses to come back without a full reboot03:54
zakkmhow come OM weather doesnt work for me?03:54
zakkmi installed it but toronto doesnt show up? none do03:54
l7it doesn't work at all?03:54
zakkmand when i enter, nothing happens03:54
zakkmit works but it doesnt let me set a location03:54
zakkmso it becomes useless03:54
l7have you tried entering other zip codes?03:54
zakkmno03:54
zakkmdont believe so03:55
zakkmlet me get my nokia03:55
l7i know US zipcodes work, not sure if canadian ones will03:55
guysoft42i gtg.. i saved the links for now03:55
GeneralAntillesl7, widgets are harder, you have to reselect them from the menu.03:55
l7you might try airport codes too if zipcodes don't work in canada03:55
GeneralAntillesCustom applets can be re-added by opening Panels in Control panel and taping OK.03:56
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l7it's usually easier for me to reboot unless i'm running something03:56
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l7i think trying to reenable OM weather may crash the tablet or desktop, i don't really use it now03:57
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l7oh yeah, that reminds me enabling the temperature sensor on OM weather seems to cause boot issues03:58
l7i guess i'm free to experiment with it now since i am booting from SD03:59
l7if it doesn't corrupt the system beyond the SD card03:59
GeneralAntillesNever had real issues with OMWeahter.04:01
l7have you used the temperature sensor feature yet?04:02
l7maybe backup your system before trying it though04:02
GeneralAntillesUsed it for a while, no issues.04:03
GeneralAntillesI don't have any desktop applets enabled at the moment, though.04:03
l7now i wonder if the hardware on all tablets is exactly the same or if i've messed up my tablet somehow04:03
l7it could be a problem that only crops up with certain combinations of programs though04:03
l7which is probably more likely04:04
l7i did install about half the stuff from extras last time to test drive things04:04
GeneralAntillesI doubt it's the hardware04:05
l7do you use any custom applets like the advanced backlight or statusbar clock?04:05
GeneralAntillesI'd be more inclined to blame certain combinations of software04:05
GeneralAntillesand some hardware accessories (BT keyboards, etc)04:05
l7could SD cards cause issues?04:05
zakkmcould anyone help me? i connected to a wifi but nothings working?04:05
GeneralAntillesUm, Advanced Backlight (duh :P), Advanced Power and Personal Menu.04:05
zakkmi got assigned a ip04:05
zakkmjust this specific wifi hotspot04:06
l7hrm advanced power sounds neat, haven'tr tried that04:06
GeneralAntillesl7, crappy SD cards might cause issues, but you'll see it as filesystem errors on boot04:06
GeneralAntillesNot likely to just cause instability.04:06
l7zakkm: i take it this is your neighbor's wifi?04:06
zakkmyes04:06
zakkmworked in the past04:07
fiferboy_n810I have advanced-backlight, personal-menu, personal-launcher, countdown-home, large-statusbar-clock, load-applet, omweather, and home-calendar all running with no issues...04:07
l7zakkm: they might be doing various things to keep you out04:08
zakkmno huh, i checked router settings04:08
l7or maybe there's just no IP addresses free04:08
zakkmwho would of thought they didnt change the password from default04:08
zakkmeverything is fine04:08
l7fiferboy_n810: on an n810 only?04:09
l7i wonder if it was the home menu items that measure free diskspace and cpu speed04:10
l7or any of the half a dozen media players or other apps i had installed04:11
fiferboy_n810Yes, n810 only04:13
l7i think the hardware's mostly the same between the n800 and n810 but i guess it could be a variable04:15
towoMhm, getting rid of the built-in Jabber client and Gizmo etc would require going to red pill mode, eh?04:18
GeneralAntillestowo, why would you want to get rid of rtcomm?04:19
GeneralAntillesGizom just requires removing a .desktop file04:19
towoGeneralAntilles: It's a dredge as I'm not using it.04:19
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towoDon't really need rtcomm running if I just fire up pidgin for im.04:19
GeneralAntillestowo, it doesn't do anything if you're not using it.04:20
GeneralAntillesYou're likely to break things ripping it out, anyway.04:20
towoGeneralAntilles: Well, in theory, the status bar icon annoys me. ;)04:20
GeneralAntillestowo, disable your accounts.04:20
GeneralAntillesOr remove that .desktop. . . .04:20
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GeneralAntilles /usr/share/applications/04:20
towoyeah, where they usually are..04:20
towoThanks, I'll just disable the accounts, then.04:21
towoGeneralAntilles: Oh, and trying not to get people to take the red pill probably won't help with people complaining when they break things regardless. :)04:22
GeneralAntillesBetter than people recommending it left and right.04:22
towoGuess so.04:22
GeneralAntillesObviously people will always complain04:22
GeneralAntillesbut fewer people will use it if it's strongly recommended against by the majority of the community04:23
GeneralAntillesso fewer complaints04:23
GeneralAntillesPretty simple. :)04:23
towoWell, there's a logic to that, yeah.04:23
towoActually, I've just got it turned off because I don't like browsing the overblown application list in the installer when I turn it on.04:23
GeneralAntillesMy goal is "fewer people breaking their tablets due to bad advice" rather than "fewer complaints I have to deal with". :)04:23
towoBit of a pain in the arse on the small display.04:24
towoMhhm.04:24
GeneralAntillesWell, that, and it's much more sane to just use apt/dpkg when you run into a wall with h-a-m. . . .04:24
* towo ponders whether there are any possibilities for video output not involving a vnc server.04:24
GeneralAntillesnx?04:25
GeneralAntillesRemote Desktop?04:25
towoWell, yes. When I get the bluetooth keyboard. My N810's keyboard is nice, but not being able to touch type annoys me.04:25
GeneralAntillesUSB-to-VGA adaptor04:25
GeneralAntillesBut that's ridiculously slow at the moment.04:25
towoUSB to VGA, more likely. I was thinking stand-alone, without computer support..04:25
GeneralAntillesOr, if you're ridiculously capable around BGAs, you could open it up and solder some leads onto the correct pins04:25
GeneralAntillesthen write some kernel drivers.04:26
towoSince having a box stand by would make it sillily easy, and we can't have that.04:26
towoI leave the soldering stuff to the hardware guys in the CCC. My hands are too shaky for that precision, anyway.04:26
l7what's the CCC?  sounds like a fun place04:29
towoChaos Computer Club. German hackerish joint.04:30
towoAnd a bit of a motivator for all that hacker space jazz exploding in the .us right now. ;)04:31
l7heh04:31
towo(hackerspaces.org, btw)04:31
* Mousey huggles hackerspaces04:31
WormFoodCCC has done some very, very cool stuff04:32
l7ah, they sound familiar.  there's a chaos computer something event every year isn't there?04:32
towoOr you can just come to the 25th Chaos Communication Congress, the annual CCC event hosted in Berlin, Germany.04:32
l7oh yeah i must be thinking of the chaos communications thing04:32
towoWell, we tend to do name crossovers.04:32
l7there are a lot of interesting hackerspaces in europe04:33
towoCC is Chaos Computer Club, Chaos Communication Congress, and the Chaos Communication Camp. ;)04:33
towo+C04:33
l7hrm, is the use of the ext2 filesystem liable to wear your SD card faster when booting from SD?04:37
GeneralAntillesl7, as opposed to?04:38
l7JFFS2?04:38
GeneralAntillesNot on an SD card04:39
GeneralAntillesjffs2 is only for unmanaged NAND04:39
towoas long as you go for noatime..04:39
l7http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS2 mentions wear leveling which is interesting04:39
GeneralAntillesWhich is default now.04:39
GeneralAntillesl7, SD cards are managed NAND04:39
l7i noticed the internal flash is JFFS204:39
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GeneralAntillesthey handle their own wear-levelig04:39
GeneralAntillesThe internal NAND is un-managed, meaning it doesn't have a chip to wear level for it04:40
GeneralAntillesso it needs filesystem-level wear leveling.04:40
l7ah04:40
l7is ext2 the fastest choice for booting from SD?04:40
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GeneralAntillesWell, your options are pretty much EXT2 or EXT304:41
GeneralAntillesEXT3 has the advantage of being more stable04:41
towoUbuntu people are currently fawning over JFS in general, but I don't know what that one does to a SD card. Probably nothing good. And I guess maemo doesn't do it.04:41
GeneralAntillesBut will have more writes.04:41
towoGeneralAntilles: Only using writeback journalling helps there.04:42
GeneralAntillesWell, if the fs is corrupted you wont have to fsck on boot.04:42
GeneralAntillesWhich is helpful04:42
GeneralAntilleser, after a crash.04:42
towoIf the journal's clean, mind. ;)04:42
l7oh yeah, could ext3 with writeback be faster than ext2?04:42
towowell, no.04:42
towoyou still write journalling data all the time.04:43
towoJust not as much.04:43
l7ah04:43
towo(writeback journalling only syncs whatever the syncing process is accessing to the journal, whereas ordered journalling dumps everything active to the journal)04:43
l7hey, i just noticed that holding the home key down for a second or two takes you straight to the desktop04:43
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l7hrm, i heard something about performance advantages from using writeback somewhere, i guess that was the idea04:46
towoWell, yes04:46
towoBut compared to ext3 ordered.04:47
towoYou really want writeback journalling with a firefox three running, for example.04:47
towoSince that bloaty bugger does TWO fsyncs every time you browse to a new URL.04:47
l7yeah firefox 3 seems a bit bloated in general04:49
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towoWell, the problem is that it uses an sqlite database for their visited URLs04:50
towoWhich they use for the new-fangled history and the "most visited url" features etc04:50
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towoBut their implementation goes around, does an fsync before opening the database, then opens the db and writes the data, closes it, and then fsyncs again.04:50
towoBecause it would be TERRIBLE if you lost just one URL due to data inconsistency!!11oneeleven04:51
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l7oh yeah, that's the whole awesomebar idea04:51
l7there's probably an option in about:config to disable it04:51
towoWouldn't be so sure about that.04:52
towoI mean, I like the bar. It's quite useful.04:52
towoBut the implementation... ugh.04:52
l7yeah it's handy at time04:52
l7s04:52
towoJust like this bloaty bugger fennec, which doesn't perform at all on my N810.04:52
GeneralAntillesEarly alpha, give it time. ;)04:52
towoYeah, well.04:53
l7heh, most of the time microb is too slow for my tastes04:53
towoIt still uses XULRunner.04:53
l7i can't imagine fennec if it is worse04:53
GeneralAntillesYeah, there is that. <_<04:53
GeneralAntilles30MB04:53
towoAlso, slowness.04:53
GeneralAntillesl7, well, MicroB is still a hacked up alpha 1.04:53
towo"Hey, look, fully modular XML interface!"04:53
GeneralAntillestowo, that said, I think it'll likely be really slick on the next generation of hardware.04:54
towoGeneralAntilles: I hope so.04:54
l7GeneralAntilles: are there any alternatives to it that are faster?04:54
towoWe just need some C8s with PadLocks. ;)04:54
GeneralAntillesl7, well, an optimized WebKit would be better.04:55
towoThere's no project like that in the pipe, is there?04:55
GeneralAntillesBut A. There are no good interfaces currently available and B. The WebKit that's actually optimized is from November last year.04:55
GeneralAntillesBundyo is working on Tear04:55
GeneralAntillesWhich is a WebKit browser written in Vala04:55
GeneralAntillesHe's made good progress so far, but it's still a ways off.04:56
towoHope remains.04:56
GeneralAntillesThere's still lots of room for improvement with MicroB04:56
GeneralAntillesLike I said, it's based on the first Firefox 3 alpha04:56
towoDefinitely. I'm still amazed how slow most browsers are today (on any platform)04:56
GeneralAntillesYeah. :\04:57
towoI tend to get a bit shocked when booting Windows and actually seeing Firefox get its arse up.04:57
GeneralAntillesBrowsers get more efficient, computers get faster, and the web just compensates.04:57
l7well, there's always lynx :)04:57
towoOr, even worse, Google Chrome. That bugger's lightning fast.04:57
towoGuess I should try to find one of those alternate JavaScript engines and recompile my Iceweasel with it..04:57
GeneralAntillesStill waiting on the OS X release. . . .04:58
towoWell, I have a Windows Vista for Ze Gamingz.04:58
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GeneralAntillesHehe04:58
GeneralAntillesI'm on a PPC Mac.04:58
l7GeneralAntilles: Snow Leopard?  what features are you expecting?04:58
towo(On a side note, I just finished Dead Space.)04:58
GeneralAntillesI do almost all of my gaming on consoles these days.04:59
GeneralAntillesStill in the middle of Dead Space04:59
GeneralAntillesI only have so much tolerance for games like that.04:59
l7hah, i have a PPC mac as well04:59
GeneralAntillesl7, OpenCL sounds really awesome.04:59
towoYeah, in the beginning, I could only play for twenty minutes or so at a time.04:59
GeneralAntillesI still need to find money for a Mac Pro between now and then, though. :(04:59
GeneralAntillesI'm just hoping they finally manage to stomp out those bugs that've been lying around for the past 5 years.04:59
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l7i'd be surprised if 10.6 supports PPC05:00
l7usually the first few point releases of OS X bring more bugs05:01
GeneralAntillesWell, the plan for Snow Leopard was to stick to fixing existing stuff rather than load up on new features.05:01
GeneralAntillesI'm really hoping they finally fix the Finder.05:01
GeneralAntillestowo, Fallout 3 has been eating away at my life lately.05:01
GeneralAntillesWhen was the last PPC box shipped?05:01
GeneralAntilles2006?05:01
towoGeneralAntilles: Oh yeah, I lost two weekends and some evenings to that.05:02
GeneralAntilles10.5 expired support stuff ~2000-2001 stuff05:02
zakkmGeneralAntilles: you think google chrome is coming out any time soon?05:02
GeneralAntilleszakkm, not a clue.05:02
GeneralAntilless/stuff/for/05:02
GeneralAntillestowo, I think I'm 35 hours in.05:02
GeneralAntillesReally disappointed by the main quest ending the game.05:03
GeneralAntillesCompared to Oblivion.05:03
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GeneralAntillesSo I started over again. ;)05:03
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towoGeneralAntilles: I'm guessing fifty hours or something for exploration up to about 95%ish percent, and then I got bored and finished the main quest..05:03
towoYeah..05:03
towoThe problem with Oblivion was that I did the main quest quite late.05:03
towoWhich meant that I was mostly yawning while hacking through the masses.05:04
GeneralAntillesHehe05:04
towoOnly had a problem when fighting the last main quest mission, since the Kingie just died off without asking me for permission.05:04
towoBastard.05:04
towoIn the end, I just had to berserk through the madness to save His Royal Behind.05:05
towoFor whatever that was worth.05:05
GeneralAntillesl7, I'm really hoping the Finder going Cocoa is going to improve things.05:05
zakkmSnow Leopard is going to be sick :)05:06
l7yeah, a fixed finder would be nice05:06
* zakkm bought a 8500GT two weekes ago, getting ready for OpenCL05:06
l7i wonder how many people will shell out for a bigfix release though05:07
GeneralAntillesHehe05:07
zakkmit will be a huge performance boost too05:07
zakkm;p05:07
l7how huge?05:07
zakkmdont know05:07
zakkmbut we're know by time of release :P05:07
GeneralAntillesWoo, meltdown on -users!05:07
zakkmthen people will decide05:07
* towo secretly brandishes his 8800 Ultra.05:07
l7apple's benchmarks will says it's 3000 percent i think05:08
zakkmlol05:08
zakkmfake benchmarks?05:08
* GeneralAntilles shakes his head.05:08
zakkmeven if its like 150% ill do it ;p05:08
l7apple always exaggerates their benchmarks05:08
GeneralAntillesI remember when an 8500 was a Radeon AGP card. :P05:08
l7i wonder if it makes sense to hold off on buying a new mac until the 10.6 releas05:09
l7which is happening on macworld i guess05:09
GeneralAntilleshttp://buyersguide.macrumors.com/05:09
zakkmthey're suppose to annouce the OpenCL results next month ;p05:09
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GeneralAntillesl7, probably depends on what you're buying.05:09
l7probably a macbook05:10
l7of course by then, maybe new macbooks will be out in 2-3 months, so why not wait a little more? :)05:10
GeneralAntillesl7, buy, buy, buy! ;)05:10
l7heh05:11
l7actually i wish i caught the back to school sale05:11
towoCONSUME!05:11
towoBe a loyal fanboy!05:11
l7i really prefer the old macbooks to the new ones which probably have bugs to be discovered05:11
* towo got an iPod by the way of present recently05:11
l7heh, good job keeping the economy going05:12
GeneralAntillesl7, Apple's hardware is disturbingly variable.05:12
towoIt's amusing how insistently iTunes tries to push an iTunes account unto you.05:12
l7i must be a really crappy fanboy since i haven't updated my hardware for over four years05:12
GeneralAntillesHehe05:12
GeneralAntillesSummer 2004 2x2.5GHz G5 here. . . .05:12
zakkm:O05:13
zakkmG5!05:13
zakkmwere so expensive05:13
l7ooh macpro05:13
GeneralAntillesI worked 60 hours a week that summer to buy that thing.05:13
l7GeneralAntilles: what do you mean by variable?  is the first gen stuff sometimes bug free?05:13
* zakkm struggles to work a 12 hour week , as a student05:13
GeneralAntillesl7, well, sometimes it's really excellent, sometimes it's bizarrely broken.05:14
GeneralAntillesI worked 30-40 a week in high school.05:14
l7i still remember the heatsink fiasco with the early macbooks05:14
zakkmi used to work 25-30 hrs a week05:14
GeneralAntillesOr the overheating iMac drives.05:14
zakkmim still in 12th grade05:14
l7not entirely surprising considering they outsource all their manufacturing05:15
l7consistent quality would be nice considering that they charge though05:15
GeneralAntillesHehe05:15
GeneralAntillesThe price disparity is actually a lot less prominent at the high end.05:16
l7yeah05:16
l7have you compared the cost of buying and keeping a mac versus cycling your hardware yearly?05:16
GeneralAntillesCompare a Mac Pro to an equivalent Dell and you come out on top05:16
GeneralAntillesThe problem is with the low end stuff.05:16
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l7i think it might be cheaper to cycle yearly and sell your stuff used on the low end05:16
zakkmMac OSX is nicer though :) so its worth it05:16
GeneralAntillesI never sell hardware05:16
GeneralAntillesI paid about $3200 for my tower.05:17
zakkml7: what about Hackintosh method05:17
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l7yikes05:17
GeneralAntillesI'm a little over 4 years in now.05:17
zakkmthats too much .;p05:17
zakkm$320005:17
GeneralAntilles$800 a year05:17
l7zakkm: i wouldn't really trust a hacked up OS not to eat my tax reports05:17
GeneralAntillesI'd probably be spending about $1200 every 2 years for a custom-built PC rig.05:17
zakkmits not hacked up?05:17
zakkmcan use official mac disc?05:17
l7zakkm: i guess it depends on the hardware you have05:18
GeneralAntillesI'm probably replacing this one when I graduate in 2 years.05:18
l7don't you still need to do some workarounds even if you're using an offical disk?05:18
zakkmno05:18
zakkmi used official mac disc :P05:18
l7er, really?05:18
l7but PCs don't have EFI05:18
zakkmyou install a bootloader first ;p05:19
l7just a bootloader?05:19
zakkmyeah05:19
l7wow, that's neat05:19
GeneralAntillesOoh, don't bring up EFI and make me sad about Open Firmware, l7. :(05:19
zakkmPC-EFI they call it05:19
zakkmor Chameleon..05:19
l7heh05:19
l7GeneralAntilles: yeah why did they get rid of Open Firmware anyway?05:20
GeneralAntillesCheaper05:20
zakkmit required PPC didnt it?05:20
l7i have to admit i've usually been too scared to boot into it and risk bricking my mac05:20
GeneralAntillesEFI isn't quite as expensive as basically rolling your own.05:20
GeneralAntillesSince they're not making their own mobos anymore.05:20
zakkmboot into what?05:20
GeneralAntillesBetter to use something which Intel can basically just hand to you.05:20
l7zakkm: into openfirmware05:21
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l7i guess openfirmware can do some neat things05:21
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l7it's there in the dustbin next to firewire05:21
l7and HDMI i gueess05:22
Juhazzakkm, no, it didn't require PPC. Would've been mighty hard for Sun to originally invent it for SPARCs if it did.05:22
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zakkmoddly never tried solaris :P05:22
l7one day i'll found a computer company called Orange, and we'll bring firewire and open firmware back :)05:23
l7isn't there a free version of solaris?05:24
GeneralAntillesSad to see Firewire die.05:24
l7yeah, i guess it makes sense considering the price05:25
l7i think the firewire group kinda screwed Firewire out of the gate because of their licensing fees05:25
l7it does seem like the better standard for data05:26
GeneralAntillesyeah05:26
l7well firewire or gigabit ethernet05:26
GeneralAntillesThe nice thing is that the controller is capable of handling "client to client" connections.05:26
GeneralAntillesWhereas USB has the whole host/client setup05:27
GeneralAntillesWith the slightly hackish OTG as a way around it.05:27
GeneralAntillesIn the end, though, fewer connectivity methods makes it easier on consumers.05:27
l7yeah, i hope USB3 doesn't suck05:28
GeneralAntillesThe ports look funny.05:28
* zakkm thinks you guys should develop your own "usb's"05:28
l7yeah, the split prong thing is weird05:28
zakkmthe l7 series Antilles :P05:29
GeneralAntillesDon't have the money.05:29
zakkmget sponsors ;p05:29
l7yeah, it will be the only port option on my Orange computer05:29
l7well that and firewire :)05:29
GeneralAntillesHa05:29
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zakkmany of you use cbrpages?05:37
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l7what is that?05:37
towocomic book reader thingie05:41
towoit doesn't have dependencies for gzip et al, zakka, so you need to install those manually05:41
towojftr.05:41
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l7hrm, has anyone found a keystroke that can cut and paste inside osso_xterm?05:47
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l7ctrl-c prints a05:47
l7inversely colored C05:48
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towoI'll be getting some shut-eye now. Laters.05:51
_786soulAnyone here be able to help me in disabling the onboard wifi (Nokia n810) to use another that I'll connect through usb?05:53
l7hmm, why do you want to do that?05:54
_786soulPentesting with my N810, wifi on it doesn't support packet injection05:55
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_786soulI just need to disable the onboard and enable the alfa I'll plug in, what command would I use? Already have root05:56
l7hrm, can't say i really know05:57
l7maybe GeneralAntilles or someone else does05:58
_786soulI know on a slax based OS the command is to do with 'iwconfig <devicename> up/down' but I'm not sure about maemo based linux05:58
_786soulI'll find some forums possibly or wait till he's on IRC to ask posibly05:59
ds3`05:59
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GeneralAntilles_786soul, got experience with wifi driver development?06:03
_786soulGeneralAntilles: Unfortunately not development. Only the basics although it is something I'd like to one day learn. Instead of relying completely on others :(06:04
derfIt's not hard. Just start reading the source.06:05
GeneralAntilles_786soul, well, now would be a good time to learn. :)06:05
_786soulLOL that's the process I'd like. Main idea I want is hopefully being writing my own code to fuel the devices I need running. What would you say is the best place to start?06:06
_786soulbegin*06:06
GeneralAntilleshttp://stlc45xx.garage.maemo.org/06:06
GeneralAntillesThe wifi driver was just opened06:06
GeneralAntillesSo you can help implementing package injection. ;)06:07
_786soulhaha thanks! I'll read up on that. I know the wifi adapter I'm using (Alfa 500mW usb) works natively on BT3 for prime example :P but I would love it working with the N810. Will this driver let me do the disabling and enabling sort of thing then working in further drivers for the adapter itself?06:09
_786soulDon't answer that. I have learned to read before asking!06:10
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l7hrm, i wonder what it would take to get ubuntu running on aaaaaa tablet06:32
GeneralAntillesl7, see Mer06:36
l7oh cool06:38
l7oh cool06:40
l7if you were going to get a few SD cards to play with other OSes, what size SD cards would you get?06:40
l7i'm wondering if 2GB may be a bit tight06:40
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l7hmm, i wonder if the iphone or ipod touch support bluetooth keyboards yet08:00
l7if not, i think you could probably use ssh and screen to make a maemo tablet a wireless bridge of sorts for terminal sessions08:01
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GeneralAntillesNo08:08
GeneralAntillesPractically no Bluetooth support08:09
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l7apple sure knows how to limit it's users08:28
GeneralAntillesyup08:30
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l7hey personal menu is way better than personal launcher for most stuff08:32
* qwerty12 uses both. Depends on if I'm on the desktop or in another program *shrug*08:33
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l7yeah, depends on how many apps you have i guess08:33
l7being able to put the most used 12 apps at 64px is pretty nice08:34
l7it took me a while to figure out how personal menu worked though08:35
qwerty12Ooh, maemo-developers cat fight. The best.08:38
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GeneralAntilles-users, you mean?08:43
GeneralAntillesI'm getting closer and closer to banning Mark from that list.08:43
GeneralAntillesEVERY flame war on that list is either started because of his input or continued because of it.08:44
qwerty12Ah, yes, you're right. /stupid me put the wrong gmail label >.<08:44
qwerty12Yeah :/08:44
GeneralAntillesI'd warn him myself, but I don't think I'm neutral enough.08:45
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GeneralAntillesA list of all his misbehavior need to be compiled, though.08:45
GeneralAntillesI find it entirely bizarre when people claim false advertising.08:48
l7is this the guy with the website featuring 30pt text?08:50
GeneralAntillesThe box says (paraphrasing): Easy WiFi/BT connectivity; Portable web with a high-resolution display; Internet calling camera, IM, email; high-quality stereo audio.08:50
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GeneralAntillesOn the cover there are pictures of people playing audio, using it as a GPS, using it to browse the web, and using it for video chatting.08:51
GeneralAntillesThe video chatting picture is actually of an impossible N800.08:51
qwerty12Do you keep your box near you too? :)08:51
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GeneralAntillesI've got a couple in the closet.08:51
GeneralAntillesMy apartment's just really small. :P08:52
qwerty12Heh, I'm lazy, my box is in arm's reach from where I'm sitting now :P08:52
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, do you happen to have a copy of kismet you could upload?08:52
GeneralAntillesIt wont be OS2006, but at least it's something to point to.08:52
GeneralAntillesand we can all say how awesome qwerty12 is. ;)08:52
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, tz1 is working on it. Because he made the conf file and some code that fixes the inability for kismet to work with nokia's gpsd, I find it only fair that he uploads it :)08:53
GeneralAntillesAh, OK.08:53
qwerty12I'd upload aircrack-ng (which complements kismet nicely imho) but that requires some newer set of tools that aren't in scratchbox by default and I have no idea how I'd get a new toolchain on the autobuilder...08:54
GeneralAntillesHehe08:55
GeneralAntillesTalk to X-Fade.08:55
GeneralAntillesI hear X-Fade likes having problems set on his doorstep. :P08:55
GeneralAntillesToo bad it's a Saturday.08:55
GeneralAntillesBastard's probably enjoying his weekend or something.08:55
qwerty12Lol08:56
qwerty12Because he's always here, I can't tell if it's his free time or if he is working :P08:56
GeneralAntillesWell, if it's a weekday and daylight, he's guaranteed to be working. :P08:56
qwerty12I'll remember that formula for future use :P08:57
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GeneralAntillesI think these days it's more "If he responds, he's working."08:57
GeneralAntillesHi, konttori_.08:57
konttori_hi08:57
GeneralAntilleskonttori_, the new Theme Maker's scheduled for February, right?08:59
GeneralAntillesCan I extrapolate certain things about the status of the Fremantle UI by that time then? :P08:59
konttori_Well, I promised it for march, but it's not like I'll be doing lot's of work.09:00
konttori_i can do it pretty quickly after the development theme is out09:00
GeneralAntillesAh, right.09:00
* GeneralAntilles re-reads the wiki.09:00
konttori_what wiki?09:03
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle09:03
* konttori_ has been far too busy to know of any developments with the community09:03
konttori_(a shame)09:03
konttori_ah, yeah, theme maker by beta.09:04
GeneralAntillesWell, this is designed to keep people abreast of some of the more important events: http://maemo.org/community/council09:04
GeneralAntillesSo might give that a read through. ;)09:04
konttori_I've been thinking of adding two different templates. One easy and the other the official template (like it is currently)09:04
GeneralAntillesHow do you make the easy one easy?09:05
GeneralAntilles(Which is a fantastic idea by the way. ;))09:05
konttori_less items to theme and better (and more logical) layout than the official one09:05
GeneralAntillesThe barrier to entry for Maemo theme making is a bit high.09:05
GeneralAntillesIt's sort of an all-or-nothing deal.09:06
GeneralAntillesWhich is a big deterrent for the casual folks.09:06
konttori_Yeah. I guess I could whip up the old template for the diablo use09:08
GeneralAntillesIt's really intimidating opening up that template.09:08
GeneralAntillesMake one that looks more reasonable and I bet you double the number of themes very quickly.09:09
konttori_yeah. I agree09:13
konttori_Even just dropping the completely useless **ap from the template and the duplicates would make it far far easier to use09:14
qwerty12The people who do make themes with your maker don't really use the template fully imo, I see a lot of the same desktop clock :)09:15
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konttori_yeah. It's a lot of work to convert all of the clock number pixmaps to what you want.09:16
konttori_clock itself consists of ~ 25 pixmaps09:16
konttori_and there really is no shortcut to it (except to convince nokia to use fonts there instead)09:17
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konttori_hey, when is fremantle alpha coming out09:18
GeneralAntillesShould be next month.09:18
konttori_ah. cool09:18
GeneralAntillesQuim was hinting at there only being one or two blockers left.09:18
konttori_ah. good. I don't know any blockers, but then again, I'm not involved in the sdk currently. all of them could be legal, marketing, or whatnot related.09:20
konttori_or even technical. e.g. dev theme.09:20
GeneralAntillesI'm excited to see h-a-m in there.09:20
GeneralAntillesI'm hoping we can get started on some downloads.maemo.org integration and some new category views.09:21
konttori_what kind of integration did you have in mind?09:22
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_the_Application_manager09:23
GeneralAntillesSome of the ideas are outlined there09:23
GeneralAntillesBut, basically, I'd like to see AppStore-like functionality.09:23
GeneralAntillesWith comments and ratings visible right in the Application Manager09:23
GeneralAntillesand adding a maemo.org account to h-a-m would let you rating and comment on applications.09:24
konttori_isn't application managers search already able to look for 'web browser'?09:24
GeneralAntillesIt searches titles and descriptions09:24
GeneralAntillesand the UI for the search is really lame.09:24
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GeneralAntillesdebtags would give it much more useful metadata to parse.09:25
konttori_so, then it would be able to locate the web browser use case that is given on the improvement page09:25
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GeneralAntillesHere's a really ugly example of the type of metadata you'd be able to search: http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/cloud/09:26
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Debian needs you!09:27
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, for what? :P09:27
qwerty12Your design skills :D09:27
GeneralAntilleslol09:27
GeneralAntillesI only work on things I actually use. :P09:27
qwerty12hehe :D09:27
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konttori_Yeah, well .... let's see about the categorization. mvo has been working on improvements09:34
GeneralAntillesJaffa and lardman are planning on hacking on it a bit.09:35
GeneralAntillesJaffa already patched the existing category view for multiple columns.09:36
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2458209:36
konttori_All good ideas in the app man improvements09:36
konttori_mvo has been taking note of those09:36
GeneralAntillesYeah, we've had a few discussions on -developers09:36
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t_s_ook, that was weird. i knew the battery probably was low after the night, but when i plugged in the charger without unlocking the screen first the device rebooted. but rather then just going to the full screen "charging" message, it fully rebooted...10:05
t_s_ogot to be some kind of interaction with pybattery...10:05
qwerty12When restarted, it only goes to the full screen charging message if the tablet is booted up in runlevel 5. The way that is done is that initfs reads /proc/bootreason and a reboot with the charger in doesn't update /proc/bootreason so the tablet continues booting in runlevel 210:06
t_s_oheh, thanks, it was just a bit "unexpected", given the reaction i got from plugging in the charger10:09
t_s_oi wonder how the battery need to drop before pybattery gives its first warning. the nokia applet seems to love giving early warnings, but pybattery seems to wait until "oh crap, its empty!"10:10
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t_s_obut then it could also be that pybattery sleeps fully while screen is off, as i have seen it alter the icon after i awaken the screen10:11
qwerty12t_s_o, the warning is shown when battery is under 5 percent10:12
qwerty12But it's python so it should only take a few seconds to change :P :)10:13
t_s_oheh10:13
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qwerty12eurgh, cdbs makes me want to scream10:15
t_s_omeh, i guess what really surprises me is that it seems the device can linger for longer with pybattery vs the nokia applet...10:26
konttori_really? that's pretty cool10:26
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RST38hThis will depend on how often it wakes up10:27
t_s_ocould just be a perception thing tho, but it seems that pybattery do not send out any kind of low battery warning while the device is idle and screen off...10:27
qwerty12I *think* the python bindings suspend desktop applets to save power10:28
qwerty12But suspending applets when display goes off is a feature so I'm not sure if in this case its the bindings or pybattery doing it10:29
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t_s_owell, i suspect that pybattery had some work done in that area, as a earlier version had the habit of hogging the cpu so that it stayed fully clocked10:30
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RST38hPython isn't a good language to use for system extensions anyway10:42
t_s_oheh, maybe so10:43
GeneralAntillesThen plan seems to be to move to C.10:47
konttori_vala otoh.... ;)10:47
konttori_move to vala (or genie)10:47
GeneralAntilleskonttori_, have you seen Tear?10:48
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2429310:48
konttori_didn't test it yet10:48
konttori_is it any good?10:48
GeneralAntillesWell, it's about as alpha as it can get. ;)10:48
konttori_urgh. perhaps later then10:49
konttori_I was so depressed with fennec10:49
konttori_it's completely unusaböe10:49
GeneralAntillesIt'll be interesting to see where it goes in a few months.10:49
konttori_people shouldn't publish underperforming stuff10:49
GeneralAntillesYeah, that one's about as alpha as it gets, too.10:49
konttori_even unstable is better than unusable10:49
GeneralAntillesWell10:49
GeneralAntillesRelease early, release often.10:49
konttori_well, have they?10:50
GeneralAntillesOpen source development takes place in the open.10:50
konttori_they only released early on10:50
GeneralAntillesThere's been a new milestone every few weeks.10:50
konttori_yeah, well, development is different from releasing10:50
konttori_?10:50
konttori_any better now?10:50
GeneralAntillesThe alpha is a lot better than the last pre-alpha release.10:51
konttori_you mean the one they released a month ago is better than the pre-alpha?10:51
GeneralAntillesMilestone 910:51
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.mozilla.org/projects/fennec/1.0a1/releasenotes/10:52
konttori_hmm... i'll check it out. thanks10:52
GeneralAntillesI mean, it's still not great10:52
GeneralAntillesbut it's a lot better than it once.10:52
GeneralAntilless/once/was/10:53
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: but it's a lot better than it was.10:53
GeneralAntilles(my muscle memory keeps picking more and more bizarre typos. . . .)10:53
GeneralAntillesI think the bigger issue than alpha releases are bloggers that love to over hype every single little thing that happens on the internet.10:54
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konttori_could be11:04
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Jaffamorning11:15
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konttori_morning Jaffa: thanks for the patch to application manager. mvo was very pleased about it.11:35
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Jaffakonttori_: having your wife & Jaffa Jr. go to the in-laws for a weekend means producitivity FTW ;-)11:43
konttori_hehey! time to hack!11:44
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RST38hAll right, gentlemen, Sldie Rule 1.0.1 now officially released. Get it from Extras (when it shows up there) or from http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule/12:14
qwerty12Cool, thanks12:14
RST38hqwerty: I have not upped the version number so you may want to delete previously installed copy12:15
RST38hor just install from file over it12:15
qwerty12Yeah, I just use dpkg anyway12:15
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RST38hBTW, SB2 looks seriously broken now, after the latest update =(12:16
qwerty12Sb1 still going strong in intrepid :)12:17
qwerty12Though I'm using a kernel from hardy12:17
* konttori_ just got the wii whiteboard working on his osx and calibrated to his monitor12:19
konttori_pretty cool stuff.12:19
konttori_I wonder if the cam on the n800 could be easilu turned into serving as source for the IR hit data to use any surface as painting surface12:20
GeneralAntillesWii Control disables virtual text input. :(12:20
* Stskeeps awakens12:20
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: what does the deblet-installer do with cx3110x-umac-module?12:21
konttori_umm... oh, my wii control. really? I didn't know.12:21
GeneralAntillesYeah,12:22
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: it builds it on tablet?12:22
GeneralAntillesI guess it thinks it's a BT keyboard.12:22
konttori_ah. probably then.12:22
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah, debian/rules binary-arch or something12:22
Stskeepslook what the non-free script does12:22
GeneralAntillesThe whole Bluetooth keyboard setup is about as broken as it could get in Diablo. :\12:22
StskeepsMeiz_n810: .. i think, think we only dl the firmware12:22
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: package tablet-wireless needs that12:23
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: grab cx3110x.ko from deblet, umac.ko from firmware and copy in the firmware to where maemo has it as well12:25
* qwerty12 thought umac.ko was in the initfs?12:25
Stskeepser, yeah, initfs12:27
X-FadeHmmm it makes me sad to see so much ignorance and conspiracy on -users :(12:27
StskeepsX-Fade: everybody loves a good conspiracy :P12:28
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I blame you.12:28
X-FadeAs if everybody is working on getting you the worst experience ;)12:28
GeneralAntillesNone of us can actually verify the content of those emails.12:28
GeneralAntillesI'm pretty sure he threatened evil things if they didn't close their repos.12:29
qwerty12Yer, X-Fade hired me to take them out. Since X-Fade didn't pay me, I didn't do it :(12:30
RST38hAs I always said, genocyde is the only solution12:30
RST38hUsers? No users! =)12:30
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I'm almost ready to start putting together a case to ban Mark. <_<12:31
X-FadeNah, you will always have people who just don't get the whole picture.12:33
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hahlobithas anyone reverse engineered this cx3110?12:36
GeneralAntilleshttp://stlc45xx.garage.maemo.org/12:37
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aquatixmorning all12:37
GeneralAntillesHi, aquatix.12:38
RST38hmoo, aquatix, zap12:38
RST38hzap: New Slide Rule at http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule (will be in Extras when X-Fade promotes it =))12:38
zaphi! thanks :)12:38
zapwhy X-Fade? don't you have access to extras?12:39
X-FadeRST38h: You can promote it yourself.12:39
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Stskeeps"This, as it turns out was wrong, luckily. After a few hours with a12:43
Stskeepscustom cx3110x module with some quite interesting new debug tracing,12:43
Stskeepsthe LMAC APIs for the N770's firmware appear to be identical.12:43
Stskeeps"12:43
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Stskeepsoh that's neat12:43
Stskeepsthere might actually be OSS wifi for 770 too then12:44
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anddamhello12:45
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i think stlc45xx may actually turn out to be a success story.. it's already getting active developers and patches, in larger % than traditional releases from nokia :P12:46
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I really hope so.12:46
GeneralAntillesEvery success story is more ammo to fire at Nokia.12:47
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RST38hX-Fade: how? =)12:48
anddamI'd need an advice, I'd like to buy an internettablet for two tasks: PIM, ToDos and appointments, and as calculator, both numerical and symbolical12:49
anddamis the n770 worth it?12:49
X-FadeRST38h: https://garage.maemo.org/promoter/diablo or chinook12:49
RST38hX-Fade: I kinda thought that non-free promotion was not automatic?12:49
anddamor should I rather look at n800?12:49
X-FadeRST38h: Ah, non-free ;)12:49
X-FadeRST38h: Well, there you can just upload to extras non-free directly.12:50
RST38huploaded already, going to check the Packages index in a moment12:51
X-FadeRST38h: Should update the index once per hour.12:51
qwerty12~gas cdbs for being a***-retentive about cflags12:51
* infobot leads cdbs for being a***-retentive about cflags to the "showers"12:51
RST38hYea, it is there already! Gonna update the download page and post news12:52
X-Fadelol, should first, check later? :D12:52
X-Fade*shout12:52
RST38hX-Fade: I was operating under previous assumptions that it was manual =)12:53
mikkov_there should be some pressure to get all those lib* packages moved out from user/ category12:54
RST38hKinda expected to wait until Monday too :)12:54
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, yeah, I emailed one or two of those and haven't gotten a response12:54
GeneralAntillesI'm going to step up the categories thing after the new h-a-m is shipped.12:54
anddamanyone about buing advice?12:54
mikkov_libuiw is even maintained by  nokia.com address12:55
X-FadeWe will start to show warnings in the autobuilder for wrong categories after this weekend.12:55
GeneralAntillesStill need to wrap up those translations. :\12:55
RST38hWhat would be the official advice on the new h-a-m?12:56
RST38hIs everybody encouraged to use it instead of the official one or is it experimental hackers-only stuff?12:56
GeneralAntillessv_SE and fi_FI are IPs-only12:57
GeneralAntillesGNUton supposedly talked to Kate12:57
GeneralAntillesbut the IP was a Beijing address, so I'm not sure.12:57
GeneralAntillesRST38h, which new h-a-m?12:57
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Kate was in Asia?12:57
RST38hGeneral: The one Jaffa has been working on12:57
GeneralAntillesThe new h-a-m _I'm_ talking about will hopefully ship with the next SSU.12:57
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, that's what I need to know. ;)12:57
RST38hAh! Perrrrfect12:57
GeneralAntillesRST38h, qwerty12 compiled a bunch of patches and built a .deb12:58
GeneralAntillesI'd recommend it for the time being because it's a lot nicer than Nokia's current version12:58
GeneralAntillesBut it's certainly not an upgrade path or anything.12:58
RST38hok12:58
qwerty12Some of those patches are by me :P12:58
RST38hAnd the one in the next SSU - is it qwerty's or something else?12:58
qwerty12No no12:58
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's likely got mvo's cleanup of Jaffa's patch.12:59
GeneralAntillesBut most of the patches qwerty12 gathered up wont make it into Nokia's version anytime soon12:59
GeneralAntillesLegal warning disablement and whatnot. ;)12:59
RST38hAh yes12:59
* RST38h has no problem with the legal boilerplate thingie13:00
GeneralAntillesCan somebody else PM allnameswereout and ask him whether GPLv2 is acceptable for his nl_NL translation?13:00
RST38hSome other patches looked niced jusdging from the screenshot though13:00
qwerty12But when the SSU one is released, you can bet your ass that I'll be readding the remove legal warning patch again13:00
qwerty12re-adding even13:00
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Does copyright even apply on single word translations?13:00
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, dunno, but some of them are multi-word. :P13:01
GeneralAntillesEither way. . . .13:01
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GeneralAntillesmvo asked so13:01
X-Fadehmm no_NO is missing the user/navigation description.13:01
* GeneralAntilles prods Stskeeps.13:01
Stskeepsmm?13:02
Stskeepswhat was it in danish again? :P13:03
Stskeepsand it's only missing cos GA was picky :P13:03
RST38hGeneral: navigasjon13:03
RST38hGeneral: this is what Google says13:03
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, you missed a word in your translation. :P13:03
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Next time we do a translation we should put a GPL disclaimer above it..13:03
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well.. we don't have a good way of saying Location13:03
Stskeepsit's more like Position13:04
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, yeah, it's gonna be done right for the next one.13:04
GeneralAntillesI wasn't thinking particularly clearly for this one. ;)13:04
RST38hSskeeps: Same in Russian, I just used Positioning13:04
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I'll probably protect the wiki page to registered users, too.13:05
X-Fadeyeah.13:05
Stskeepswtf beagleboard... it seems to insist on destroying my MMCs13:06
GeneralAntillesI PMed fredoll, so waiting on that.13:08
GeneralAntillesI think I know who did es_MX13:08
GeneralAntillesNeed to talk to GNUton and crashanddie13:08
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* GeneralAntilles hands Stskeeps the blocker stick for finishing up the translations. :P13:14
Stskeepsoi, im busy compiling like mad :P13:14
* GeneralAntilles whittles more blocker sticks to hand to people.13:15
zetherooI have been trying to install the latest Maemo Mapper downloaded from Garage .... but it says that there are a bunch of packages missing ... so it cannot continue ..13:15
qwerty12ooh, can I have one, pleaseeeeeee13:15
X-Fadezetheroo: Install from Extras.13:16
GeneralAntilleszetheroo, I'm pretty sure it's in the repository.13:16
* GeneralAntilles carves osv-c into the one for qwerty12.13:16
X-Fadezetheroo: Don't use single file downloads if it is also available in the repository :)13:16
qwerty12Bleh, I changed my mind, you can have it back :P13:16
* qwerty12 can't face the thought of compiling qemu :/13:17
* GeneralAntilles casts a binding spell on qwerty12's stick before launching it out of a cannon at his back.13:17
zetherooumm ... the latest is 2.5.2 I think ... is that in the repos yet?13:17
GeneralAntilleszetheroo, I just updated it a little while ago.13:17
zetherooI got the heads up from John Costigan on this13:17
zetheroook cool13:17
* X-Fade sees snow falling for a few hours now.13:17
qwerty12OW13:17
Stskeepsqwerty12: it takes like 5 minutes13:17
qwerty12Stskeeps, not here :/13:17
Stskeepswhere are you, a 486? :P13:17
RST38hGeneral: Don't you think something has to be done about Extras-devel?13:18
qwerty12Stskeeps, Nope, 2.8GHz dual core & 2gb ram but still takes long :P13:18
RST38hGeneral: Maybe split it into Extras-beta, Extras-alpha, and Extras-avoid-like-plague?13:18
GeneralAntillesRST38h, absolutely, and I'm nominating X-Fade to do all the work! :P13:18
X-FadeSure, I will do that. Why not.13:18
RST38hRight now, enabling Extras-devel looks like the biggest problem for the "normal users"13:19
GeneralAntillesActually, that's a good question13:19
GeneralAntillesI don't have the history behind the current situation13:19
RST38hIt is rather simple:13:19
GeneralAntillesWhy do we have a two-tier system instead of a 3-tier system like Debian?13:19
GeneralAntilless/3/three/13:19
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Why do we have a two-tier system instead of a three-tier system like Debian?13:19
RST38hYou have got 1. Group of developers that keep their apps in Extras-devel forever and openly tell users to enable it to "install the latest version"13:19
zetheroois there a way in mapper to get the quickest route and not the closest one?13:20
RST38hAnd then 2. Other developers that place completley unworkable stuff into Extras-devel13:20
Stskeepsqwerty12: just ask it to only build the ARM part13:20
qwerty12k13:20
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qwerty12Maybe after I finish building mpd13:21
RST38hFinally 3. You have got conflicts between libraries taken from Extras and Exras-devel13:21
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, I think I would prefer finer granularity here13:21
GeneralAntillesbut I don't love the difficulties that setup introduces.13:21
GeneralAntillesRST38h, take it to -developers I guess.13:22
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X-FadeI think there should be more people working on the management scripts and a team of community members to manage the repos ;)13:23
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I vote we start impressment.13:24
RST38hGeneral: Actually, I have no idea how to resolve this13:25
RST38hi.e. the problem is clear but resolution is nowhere in sight13:25
lcukX-Fade, it will resolve itself with time.  in the past setting up your own repo was easier, now its more logical to use extras13:26
* lcuk misread - RST38h that was a reply to yours, i thought x had wrote it13:27
X-FadeYes, but for a repository to work it needs active maintenance and more people watching it ;)13:27
lcukyes, extras has lots of eyes13:27
RST38hlcuk: Oh, it is not a problem with 3rd party repos. It is a problem with conflicts between Extras and Extras-devel13:27
GeneralAntillesBut needs an active QA team.13:27
mikkov_maemo.org/downloads just broke down..13:27
RST38hX-Fade: btw, similarly to Extras having free and non-free, can we have Extras-devel with alpha, beta, etc?13:28
X-Fademikkov_: Huh?13:28
X-Fademikkov_: Works for me?13:28
RST38hAnd a strict warning to developers to only place alpha-quality stuff into alpha?13:28
GeneralAntillesRST38h, that's not really very different. . . .13:28
mikkov_hmm, works for me again13:28
RST38hGeneral: It is not, true13:28
RST38hbut at least it will weed out cases where users suddenly get updated with an early alpha version13:29
mikkov_X-Fade: for couple of minutes Categories links were corrupted. I tried it with pc and n800 so I wasn't dreaming ;)13:30
X-Fademikkov_: Corrupted how? What did you see?13:30
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GeneralAntilleslol13:31
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=243840#post24384013:31
mikkov_X-Fade: link was replaced by some error message13:32
mikkov_X-Fade: but of cource I didn't save it ;)13:33
X-Fademikkov_: Hmm i see it here too.13:33
mikkov_X-Fade: it's working for me atm ;)13:33
mikkov_X-Fade: could you pastebin the message so I could seee if it is the same that I saw13:34
X-Fademikkov_: In the category block on the right?13:34
mikkov_X-Fade: yes13:35
X-Fademikkov_: Should not happen anymore from now on.13:37
mikkov_X-Fade: ok ;)13:38
RST38hBTW, is this right that in Ubuntu, clicking on a URL in the terminal does not bring it up in FireFox?13:39
lcukRST38h, sliderule, you have made numbers the default, but what happens when i want to do sin(x) type things?13:40
qwerty12RST38h, If I right click and choose open link then it opens in firefox for me13:40
lcukwill the i come out as a 9?13:40
RST38hchecking...13:40
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RST38hYea! It works!13:40
RST38hqwerty: You have opened my eyes! thanks.13:41
qwerty12hehe :)13:41
RST38hlcuk: x is in the bottom kbd row :)13:41
lcukbut the "i" in sin isnt (its 8 sorry, not 9)13:41
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RST38hlcuk: In fact, you CAN use q,w,e,r,t,y,u,i,o,p for variables in sliderule but the plotter will use x13:42
RST38hlcuk: oh, the function names... :(13:42
lcukyeah, what happens if i type s8n(x)13:42
RST38hGuess I will have to fix that =(13:42
lcukheh, just have numerics come up if its in a nona alpha block13:43
RST38hI process keypress/keyrelease events, so this has to be done by hand13:43
lcukthough i do like numerics in numerically expected places13:43
lcukthats a big +1 on usablity13:44
lcukdont worry about the sin one for now13:44
RST38hDo you prefer F-key as a switch between digits and letters or as a button that makes digits letters when pressed?13:44
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lcukim used to pressing the fn key randomly to flip numbers and letters anyway, so just make it flip ;)13:45
RST38hok13:45
lcukentering passwords is great, if anyone is over my shoulder they think theres lots of x's and z's13:45
* RST38h wonders what happens when the next tablet finally gets a SIm card13:46
* RST38h further wonders what will happen if it supports BOTH 3G and GSM13:46
zetherooI am delighted to say that flite is now working in Maemo Mapper13:46
zetherooYAY13:46
X-FadeRST38h: It will only support data.13:47
RST38hWhat would the next "I would buy it if it only had..." excuse be?13:47
GeneralAntillesRST38h, a teleporter.13:47
lcuk"... a kitchen sink"13:47
lcukoooooooh shiny!13:47
GeneralAntillesOr an iPod Touch.13:47
RST38hGeneral: iTunes support!13:47
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fiferboy_n810X-Fade: I fixed eero's memory leak yesterday.  Could you have him test it?13:48
GeneralAntillesThe problem with the "I would buy if" folks is that they never actually buy.13:48
RST38hX-Fade: if it only supports 3G data, that would be stupid13:48
GeneralAntillesPursing that market is stupid.13:48
RST38hGeneral: Exactly. Noticed that long time ago13:48
X-Fadefiferboy_n810: Sure, I will post it to the list.13:48
fiferboy_n810Thanks.  It's in extras now13:48
lcukwhy do we need itunes support, someone needs to make a piratebay-store and piratebay-player ;)13:48
fiferboy_n810I was able to reproduce the problem, and the fix worked for me13:49
RST38hX-Fade: hardware-wise, making it support voice probably does not cost a thing. Same goes for GSM/GPRS support because the chipsets are now integrated13:49
GeneralAntillesRST38h, can "3G" ever not mean "3G + EDGE"?13:49
RST38hGeneral: Of course13:49
RST38hGeneral: EDGE has nothig to do with 3G13:49
X-FadeRST38h: No, but it will complicate things a lot legally. And then you need provider approval etc.13:49
* qwerty12 current phone has EDGE, no 3G13:49
GeneralAntillesRST38h, OK, better question, _does_ it ever not mean . . . ? ;)13:49
RST38hGeneral: EDGE is just an ability to use a double GPRS allocation, I think13:49
RST38hGeneral: Yes.13:49
X-FadeRST38h: Like they locked down the G1. You wouldn't be very happy if that happened.13:50
RST38hGeneral: My Nokia E70 (european) supports 3G but does not support EDGE13:50
GeneralAntillesI can't imagine Nokia shipping a device that would work in so few places.13:50
RST38hGeneral: Very inconvinient, given that MTS still does not support 3G in Moscow13:50
lcukX-Fade, so we expect the same kind of thing as the USB cell-phone broadband dongles13:50
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GeneralAntillesEspecially as 2G support has got to be practically free.13:50
X-FadeThe HSDPA modem also has support for 'legacy' bands.13:50
lcukmorse code?13:51
mikkov_EDGE is about using more efficient modulation13:51
lcukthe turn by turn directions by the old fashioned bbc voice?13:51
guysoft42 hey, where can i get the libhildon1-dev package in debian?13:52
Stskeepsit's in debian, afaik :P13:53
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Stskeepsheh, another "I'm bitter" thread13:54
qwerty12~lart shitty cs2005 toolchain shipped with scratchbox by default13:54
* infobot slaps shitty cs2005 toolchain shipped with scratchbox by default upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh13:54
lcukits a worldwide theme13:54
X-Fadefiferboy_n810: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-November/035666.html13:54
ShadowJK_RST38h, my european E70 supports both EDGE and 3G (up to 384kbit/s)13:55
* Stskeeps wonders if qemu emulates the watchdog too13:55
ShadowJK_Supports GPRS too13:55
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Stskeeps~seen johnx13:55
infobotjohnx <n=john@p2172-ipbf2302hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 12h 48m 45s ago, saying: 'heh...easy enough to go off grid. I just climb a 1200 and bam, no geolocation :)'.13:55
ShadowJK_EDGE isn't "double gprs allocation" per se, edge brings a number of new modulations and a different error recovery method13:55
* Stskeeps wonders if he got dragged off to a mental institution13:56
lcukno, but can you hear the ambulances, they are coming to take you away ah hah13:56
fiferboy_n810X-Fade: Thanks!  I'm pretty sure this solves his problem13:57
RST38hShadow: Nope (on E70)13:58
X-Fadefiferboy_n810: Thanks for being responsive and will to test/fix the report..13:58
fiferboy_n810Hey, no problem.13:58
ShadowJK_I'm downloading at 24kbyte/s right now, without 3G :-)13:58
RST38hShadow: I also wondered about it and finally found that it only supports GPRS and 3G. US version supports GPRS and EDGE but no 3G13:59
RST38hShadow: Lemme check the specs again13:59
fiferboy_n810I have always tried to fix problems or add feature requests quickly13:59
MeizirkkiStskeeps: yesterday you asked about what is better in jaunty, i have found one thing, i have now installed jaunty 4 times and it have never give me Segmentation Faults, both hasty armv5 and v6 have give me segfaults many times13:59
ShadowJK_http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/E70 "Europe, Asia, Africa", and then scroll down to Network Data Support where it says EGPRS14:00
StskeepsMeizirkki: mm, i'm starting to wonder if we should back jaunty instead of mojo honestly14:00
GeneralAntillesyerga, Ehehehe.14:00
yergaGeneralAntilles, xD14:00
GeneralAntillesReggie's just got a cronjob running. . . .14:01
yergaI was going to do a better reply, but I thought it two times14:01
MeizirkkiStskeeps: well, i prefer jaunty, even with the fact that it is kinda "beta", i mean it will be refeased after 5 months14:01
RST38hShadow: Weird. How come I never see it use EDGE then?14:01
yergafunny too the thread in maemo-users14:01
ShadowJK_RST38h, maybe there's no edge coverage where you live?14:02
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RST38hShadow: There is14:02
X-Fadeyerga: I have sent only one reply and that really should be enough ;)14:02
ShadowJK_Note that the phone doesn't actually tell you whether it's using GPRS or EDGE modulation, looks the same14:02
StskeepsMeizirkki: think i'll ponder with johnx if ubuntu's direction is better14:03
RST38hMaybe that is why14:03
hahlobitStskeeps i got this bait bootmenu, seems that deblet bootmenu doesn't install over it?14:03
ShadowJK_Only way to tell is to download something huge, probably several transfers at once, and if speed goes above 5kbyte/s, then it's using edge14:03
RST38hStill strange though14:03
yergaX-Fade, but when you are speaking to this kind of people, there is nothing to do ;)14:03
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RST38hIt often goes over 5kB/s14:03
MeizirkkiStskeeps: they seem to be pretty fast with the compiling, ubuntu-desktop have been installable almost 2 days and they are not far away from kde 414:03
X-Fadeyerga: Yes, but at least it explains things to other people reading it.14:03
ShadowJK_regular GPRS only goes to 5 or so14:03
RST38hbut not by much :)14:04
Stskeepshahlobit: there's a big warning somewhere on my pages that you should start from a fanoush bootmenu, from fresh initfs, .. but not penguinbait :P14:04
X-Fadeyerga: I have no doubt in my mind that it will ever help for the original poster ;)14:04
GeneralAntillesYeah, yerga, X-Fade's right. The idiots will be idiots, it's the effect they have on everybody else that's a problem. . . . :\14:05
yergaX-Fade, sure14:05
hahlobitStskeeps: ok, should i now first flash stock diablo and start over?14:05
X-Fadeyerga: The problem is that it really changes the mood of people who are working on this in their spare time.14:05
X-FadeIt does a lot of harm there.14:05
MeizirkkiStskeeps: i have always installed your bootmenu over PB:s, and i have never had problems14:05
Stskeepshahlobit: yeah, just the initfs i guess14:06
StskeepsMeizirkki: yeah, it only seems to happen to some14:06
ShadowJK_I have two phones with edge support, and with the one operator I have a parallell sim card. It's amusing how when I use gprs on just one phone, I get 24kbyte/s, if I use on both with same operator, I get something like 15kbyte/s each. Embarassingly shows that most of the time I'm the only data user in my area :)14:06
hahlobitok14:06
RST38hX-Fade: need to implement ignore feature on itt and use email kill lists14:06
MeizirkkiStskeeps: maybe it is about n800/n810, hahlobit has n800 and i have n810...14:06
RST38hShadow: I am getting 15kB/s at most14:06
RST38hShadow: This place is crawling with GPRS users.14:07
ShadowJK_right :)14:07
ShadowJK_approx 15kB/s was the maximum for my old phone, a Nokia 6820. It had weaker edge support than E7014:07
Stskeepsqwerty12: hm, i guess one reason nokia has initfs is to keep kernel size down14:09
Stskeepsqwerty12: compiling in fs drivers could be a mess else14:10
ShadowJK_I wish Nokia would update the E70... upgrade the CPU and add more RAM, and the latest S60...14:10
qwerty12Stskeeps, Makes sense, nokia supply quite a few modules14:10
Stskeepsyerga: <3 your post14:11
RST38hShadow: Same here - still waiting for a replacement :(14:12
ShadowJK_:(14:12
yergaStskeeps, thanks. I am inspired this morning. It was a good night ;)14:12
RST38hShadow: The closest it is probably gonna get is E72 (?) but it will look more like N81014:12
ShadowJK_I haven't heard about E7214:12
RST38hSliding keyboard, inaccessible top row of keys, same damn 320x24014:12
RST38hShadow: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/19/nokias-e72-slider-and-e75-candybar-with-qwerty-keyboards-leaked/14:13
ShadowJK_Oh yeah, all those other phones (except E90) have tinier screen res than E70...14:13
ShadowJK_I can't go to smaller screen res now, I'll loose too many chars in putty :(14:13
RST38hShadow: E50 and N80 have the same resolution. It was actually a hack (they doubled 208x176 to avoid redesigning the UI)14:13
RST38hShadow: Well, 5800 is 800x360 and it will have a passable virtual keyboard...14:14
ShadowJK_I think N810 fills that role14:14
qwerty12RST38h, Will "standard" 9.x apps (ie programs designed for phones with a keyboard) run on the 5800?14:15
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* Stskeeps glances at initramfs14:16
hahlobitwohder why phones have 8-16gb disk and tablet got only tiny...14:16
ShadowJK_E70 is great because the screen doesn't seem to die even when I keep it in pocket at work and bump into things, I can just take it out and type notes quickly without needing to have clean hands first, dump it into pocket again, etc14:16
ShadowJK_I wouldn't trust the N810 to survive that even if I resisted touching the screen :P14:17
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RST38hqwerty: I think so14:19
RST38hqwerty: As long as you use keyclick events of course14:19
qwerty12RST38h, Ok, thanks. S60's range of apps is a winner for me so I'd hate to lose that :(14:19
RST38hShadow: I would say, they need to use a newer CPU, finally fix the firmware, add more memory, and maybe make screen a bit bigger physically14:20
RST38hShadow: But for god's sake, KEEP THE FORM FACTOR AND DO NOT CHANGE THE KEYBOARD14:20
ShadowJK_yes14:20
ShadowJK_The keyboard is better than N810's keyboard14:20
RST38hqwerty: I would wait and see on 5800. It is definitely not going to be the last Nokia's touch phone14:20
RST38hShadow: it is better than E90 in fact14:20
ShadowJK_I haven't used E90, but it looked completely flat14:21
RST38hShadow: can be used with both hands, comfortably, without capral tunnel and/or dropping the device14:21
ShadowJK_does your joystick still work, mine's acting up a bit...14:22
RST38hMine is acting up a bit, but it can be fixed at the service center14:22
univacwhats here wrong with stock: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/1471580f4fa316770d2c2427c8bce07e.png14:22
RST38h*or* at the electronics market14:22
univac?14:22
qwerty12univac, use the give applet?14:23
ShadowJK_RST38h, I wonder how much that costs :)14:23
univacqwerty12: yes14:23
RST38hShadow: My guess is - ~$20-$40 to fix14:23
univacqwerty12: buggie?14:23
qwerty12univac, Use the version I recompiled here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233128&postcount=6 . I fixed that problem.14:23
guysoft42anyone want to add a comment?: http://getsatisfaction.com/foxmarks/topics/foxmarks_on_maemo_microb_browser14:24
univacthanks14:24
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guysoft42hey, how come it says here : http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/usbcontrol/ that all i need is a female-female connector?14:32
lcukmmmmmmmm female-female14:32
Stskeepslesbies14:33
lcukguysoft42, cos if you have female-female thing goin on anything is possible14:33
lcuk(or rather you dont care if its not possible, you are kinda distracted)14:33
ShadowJK_Oh, I had been wondering if you could use a female-female adapter with the included usb cable..14:33
lcukyes14:33
lcuki did with mine14:33
guysoft42lcuk, because the other day someone told me i need some spacial adapter..14:35
GAN800guysoft42, because you don't need any software if you use14:35
GAN800a real hardware solution. . . .14:35
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GAN800http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode has the information you're after. . . .14:36
lcukguysoft42, the default nokia supplied cable does not close off the automatic host mode sensing pin, if you use the default nokia adapter and a f-f link you still need to set host mode as a flag within maemo.  you can buy cables which have the hostmode link embedded and so plugging in is automatic14:36
lcukif that makes sense, but its always better to have female-female action going on around the house14:36
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lcukthe f-f adapter will give you proof of concept, if you like how it works buy a proper cable for simplicity.  i went the other way and bought a bt keyboard, too many wires otherwise14:38
RST38hGAN: How do I make a list in Wiki?14:43
RST38hPreferably something that looks like DT/DD14:43
GAN800# list item for numbered14:43
RST38hok14:43
GAN800* for not14:43
GAN800Google for wikipedia cheat sheet14:44
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ShadowJK_lcuk, what keyboard did you get?14:45
lcukapple tiny bt :)14:46
lcukhttp://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg14:48
aquatixheh14:49
aquatixexactly as large as your wooden hold14:49
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RST38hGAN: How do I open a list? [?14:50
GAN800You don't14:51
GAN800Just prefix the lines14:51
RST38hIt umbers all my # items with 1.14:51
GAN800Don't add newlines in between14:51
lcuk..blank lines..14:51
GAN800or are you putting code examples in the middle or something?14:51
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RST38hNo, no14:53
RST38hJust helping you out14:53
RST38hGEN: http://wiki.maemo.org/TabletDeath#Reasons_Why_Internet_Tablets_Will_Die14:53
RST38hGAN: Next time somebody pops up in a forum with yet another thread, do not argue. Direct him there instead.14:54
GAN800No camel case14:54
GAN800Where's the list?14:54
* RST38h hasn't finished with all the items yet, sorry. But of course you are free to help :)14:54
RST38hI killed the list14:54
RST38hReplaced it with ===14:54
GAN800ok14:54
ShadowJK_lol, atom cpu14:55
GAN800Thanks, though. ;)14:55
* GAN800 is horizontal.14:55
StskeepsRST38h: "Internet Tablets Will Die Because I Bought An Iphone instead"14:55
RST38hSts: It is there already14:56
Stskeepsk14:57
Stskeepswas more meant as "IT sucks cos it made me buy a competitor instead" :P14:57
milhouseSssssh.... iPhone != competition (allegedly)14:58
aquatixwhuh? stylus clicks? ah indeed, my n810 has a stylus!14:58
* aquatix always uses his fingers ;)14:58
Khertan_n810Hi !14:59
Khertan_n810someone know a 2d game engine that could work in python to render a 2d space fighting game ?15:00
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lcukKhertan, doesnt sdl have an interface for python?15:02
Khertan_n810i mean a game engine15:04
Khertan_n810not doing the engine myself :)15:04
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ShadowJK_I've recently somehow gained the ability to use finger to push the snooze button in my sleep when N810 alarm goes off, this is not a good thing15:05
lcukwhat do you need though? collision detection? sprites? high score table?15:05
ShadowJK_there's pygame, but it's not an engine15:05
lcukShadowJK_, that snooze button needs to be even smaller than the 2mm it is already, and it needs to move around randomly15:05
ShadowJK_you can also snooze by pushing any of the hardware keys, it seems15:06
Khertan_n810lcuk ... sprite displaying ...15:06
Khertan_n810sprite collision15:06
Khertan_n810but optionnal15:07
Khertan_n810:)15:07
Khertan_n810many things should be calc by the server to avoid cheating15:07
lcuksdl load image, blit image15:07
Khertan_n810i m going eating15:07
lcukom nom nom15:07
Khertan_n810see you latet15:08
Khertan_n810latee15:08
Khertan_n810later15:08
* lcuk should put a python front end on liqbase15:08
konttori_lcuk: yeah, you should15:10
lcukheh15:10
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lcukmorning konttori_ :) what abstraction level do you desire though15:11
lcukjust a customizable screen with drawing tools (plus image/font)15:11
lcukor full widgetset stuff with kinetics15:11
konttori_well, drawing tools would be a good first step15:13
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: couldn't keep away from the screen? :P15:13
konttori_otoh, don't do it for me. I have hardly time to work at all on code.15:13
konttori_so, I would probably not be able to make use of the libqbase15:13
konttori_even though I would definitely love te15:13
konttori_to15:13
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, no, irc lures me in :D15:13
lcukwe can put a ban on your if you like?15:18
qwerty12_N800noooooooooo15:19
lcukheh15:20
lcukbbl15:20
guysoft42lcuk, what module does one need for a keyboard/15:26
guysoft42?15:26
guysoft42because i think it works when i plug a hub in15:26
Stskeepssomeone give me a good codename line for Mer releases15:27
Stskeeps(like debian's lenny/sid, etc)15:27
yergaqwerty12_N800, the gftp you have in maemobox, is the hildonized one?15:27
qwerty12_N800ganja15:27
lcuklook on the bottom of your keyboard, tell me what ma rating it has, the n8x0 can only drive MAXIMUM of 100ma, if it gets close it wont work properly - a hub however will overcome any power deficiencies of hardware15:27
qwerty12_N800yerga, I wish :). I couldn't get bundyo's stuff to apply15:28
yergaah, ok.15:28
yergaI have the hildonized debs, but not the source.15:28
Stskeepscodename line, famous maemo people? :P15:29
guysoft42lcuk, it does not seem to say15:29
guysoft42le leds blink thaugh when i connect it15:29
qwerty12_N800guysoft42, afaik, a dmesg after plugging in the keyboard will tell you if current  is too high15:29
lcuki dunno then, im a bit busy wrangling kids at the mo, all devices should have a rating on them15:30
anddamanyone around willing to give an advice? I'm trying to figure if shoul go for a n770 or an n80015:30
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anddamI never used any of them15:30
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konttori_anddam: n800. It has more mem and has supported os15:31
anddamI see, n770 are way cheaper tho'15:32
guysoft42the controler mode is at a_wait_vrise still :S15:32
anddamkonttori_: I'd basically do 3 tasks: basic PIM, calculus, and ebook reading15:32
soapthat's Palm territory.15:32
* Stskeeps goes for futurama characters.15:33
konttori_for ebook, 770 is better15:33
soapand not leveraging the strengths of the Nokias15:33
anddamsoap: I have one but I'd like to switch15:33
konttori_it just feels better in your palm15:33
konttori_but the screen on n800 is better15:33
soapI currently read on a Zire 72.15:33
soapNot as good as the b/w 320x320 Clies, but not bad.15:33
konttori_770 and fbreader is terrific15:33
anddamsoap: I'd be interested in mathematic software too, so linux is a more viable choice15:33
anddamand the Clié is just too tiny to do comfortable data input15:34
anddamI'd like to use octave and maxima thus replacing my TI8915:35
soapthat is the downside.15:35
anddamhow long does battery last with continuous use?15:35
soapI used to run a HP48 emulator on my Palm, but if you're used to algebraic entry that won't address your wants.15:35
soapon which?15:35
anddamboth15:35
soapClie S20 = 8 hours, Zire72 = 4 hours, N810 = 5 hours or more doing that sort of thing, 770 I don't know.15:36
anddamI own an SJ20 too15:37
soapyes - forgot the J15:37
anddamI bought it for long battery life, great device indeed15:37
anddambut basically it's getting dust in the closet15:37
soapfucking memorystick, though.15:37
soapWhy I got the Zire72, SD and no more unique dock connector, a real mini-usb.15:38
anddamI'd like to take a new exciting device, I can see a couple n770 ending soon on ebay and was wondering if I could live with it15:38
anddamis the whole system stored in flash?15:38
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anddamI read about the HackerEdition and was wondering what exactly is the problem in using OS2008 on the 77015:38
anddamRAM?15:38
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konttori_ram is the biggest issue15:40
konttori_770 has only 64 MB ram15:40
soapdon't know - is it even the same ARM family?  I don't know.15:40
Meizirkkiflash size? n8x0 = 256, 770 = 12815:40
RST38hGAN: Still here?15:40
konttori_770 is 17x0 and n800 is arm 2xx015:40
RST38hGAN: I have completed the page, more or less: http://wiki.maemo.org/TabletDeath15:40
konttori_(can't remember the exact models)15:41
soapbut are they both arm4?15:41
anddamMeizirkki: yes, the point being if OS2008 more than 64Mb15:41
qwerty12_N800soap, n8x0 is armv615:42
konttori_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMAP15:42
soapyea if it is the N770 is v515:43
konttori_770 has 171015:43
soapwhich is the ARM+DSP, the ARM is a ARMv5TEJ15:43
soapso if the 8x0 is v6, it is not binary compatible with v5s15:44
anddamI'm wondering what "OS2007HE combined the binary parts of OS2006 with most of the updated libraries and user-space applications of OS2007" exactly means15:44
anddamsoap: but it can be compiled for both target, can't it?15:44
soaplikely15:45
konttori_2007 and 2006 are binary incompatible if I remember correctly15:45
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anddamok but when you've got sources that's not a big  issue15:46
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soapdo you have sources for everything?15:49
anddamnot personally15:49
soapI was under the impression some stuff was in binary blobs.15:49
anddamsoap: I never approached maemo before as I don't own a device15:49
anddamI was assuming it was all oss15:49
anddamI'll go with n770 and eventually I can resell it and buy an 80015:50
soapI haven't gotten into building yet, that is actually this weekend's goal, so I'm not yet 100%, still reading.15:50
qwerty12_N800yerga, Tried out the hildonized gftp, not bad. Unless you have plans to (preferably as I only know basic hildonization), I could hildonize it?15:54
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anddamtoo bad, lost it16:01
yergaqwerty12_N800, I was going to hildonize it and upload to extras, but if you can to do it, I would save work and time ;)16:02
yergaI have asked in the maemoftp forum if the developer could upload it to extras too, else I would do16:04
yergatoday seems a ftp day ;)16:04
qwerty12_N800Ok. I'll try and hildonise as much of it as possible, if I flop on something, I'll pass over my current work to you.16:05
yergaqwerty12_N800, ok, thanks!16:05
qwerty12_N800Heh, first time ever that I've connected to microsoft's ftp :P16:05
qwerty12_N800:)16:05
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qwerty12_N800RST38h, TabletDeath is brilliant16:08
anddambye16:08
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sp3000bash people!16:10
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sp3000is there a way to hide a command from set -x ?16:10
* sp3000 would like to just get the xtrace output for a single line, and not for the following line which happens to be set +x16:11
RST38hqwerty: I tried to do my best =)16:11
qwerty12_N800hehe :)16:11
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zapnice, just misses one point: "Q: Internet tablets will die! A: No, they won't!"16:23
RST38hzap: I have just added it. As a disclaimer16:24
zap't was a joke rather :)16:25
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zapgood page anyway, this question is raised on forums again and again16:26
RST38hzap: I did not see your comment until I added it :)16:26
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guysoft42hey, um ,how can i compile stuff for the nokia 810 on my laptop? since the nokia is an ARM, and i have a pentium M here..16:34
RST38hguysoft: You need to download and install Maemo SDK16:34
guysoft42is there a cross-compiler that is simple to get?16:34
guysoft42RST38h, is it in deb form?16:34
RST38hguysoft: And it requires Linux, so you better start by installing Linux16:34
RST38hguysoft: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4-1-1_diablo_sdk/16:35
guysoft42ah, found a repo :)16:37
* guysoft42 has been using only linux the past 6 years16:37
RST38hguysoft: Do follow the instructions though16:38
RST38hOtherwise, you will have problems (happened before)16:38
guysoft42RST38h, i will. sorry.. i am a little unorganized sometimes16:39
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: is there mer repo with some armel packages?16:51
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Meizirkkilike boot-things16:51
Meizirkkior xserver-xorg-video-omapfb16:51
Stskeepsnot yet sorry16:53
Stskeepsi will get to that when i'm done with the big build box16:53
* sp3000 goes for a subshell16:53
Meizirkkiokay16:53
MeizirkkiStskeeps: the xserver-xorg-video-omapfb seems to conflict with jauntys xserver-xorg16:54
Stskeepshmm?16:54
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Stskeepsconflict how? :P16:59
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: first i install xserver-xorg, then force-architecture xserver-xorg-video-omapfb, on the dpkg says something about xserver-xorg-video-2 and it conflicts with xserver-xorg-core17:02
Stskeepsk17:03
Stskeepswe'll look into it i guess17:03
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MeizirkkiWhere should i put that umac.so i got from initfs, to get wlan working17:30
Meizirkki*umac.ko17:33
Stskeepslib/modules/2*/ or something17:36
Meizirkkiok17:37
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goldbugHi.  I've installed Easy Debian on my N800 and was wondering if there's a way to increase the virtual desktop size (so moving the mouse to the edge of the screen causes it to scroll)?  Thanks.17:43
Stskeepsif you find out, i'd like to know too :P17:45
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zakkmanyone know where i could find black/grayscale icons for the n800/diablo ?17:56
zakkmor a guide that would teach me do it myself17:57
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RST38hzakkm: Wikipedia has icons17:58
konttori_zakkm: copy all of the icons from /usr/share/icons/hildon/scalable17:58
RST38hquerty17:58
konttori_after you have copied them, runthem all through a filter that turns them to grayscale17:59
qwerty12RJT38h17:59
zakkmthen just replace?17:59
konttori_(whatever that is in your system... imagemagick perhaps on linux on perhaps photoshop on other platforms)17:59
konttori_yeah17:59
zakkmi have mac osx17:59
zakkmi got linux on a dualboot though17:59
konttori_just replace the existing ones after you are done17:59
zakkmso i might do imagemagick17:59
konttori_well, on osx, you might even be able to use the osx scripting to make them grayscale18:00
konttori_however, whatever makes you tick. should be easy enough to dl.18:00
zakkm:D18:00
zakkmi got a nice wallpaper that i think would look cool with grayscale icons18:00
zakkmohh18:00
zakkmwhere are the program icons?18:00
zakkmwould like to change those too18:01
qwerty12/usr/share/pixmaps or /usr/share/icons depending on the mood of the developer/packager. dpkg -L <package name> is likely to be a better bet for finding the icon18:01
zakkmoh cool they're there :P18:03
zakkmthanks :)18:03
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* RST38h wonders whether he should port the virtual keyboard from S60 to Maemo18:17
Stskeeps~curse APT18:17
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, APT !18:17
lcukRST38h, whats the difference? doesnt hildon one do you18:17
RST38hlcuk: hildon one obscures too much of the screen and does not generate events I need18:20
lcukahhh, but at least you have choice18:20
hahlobitseems that apt on xterm handles more than that gui front end on diablo, why is that?18:23
konttori_handles what?18:24
qwerty12hahlobit, feel free to port & hildonise synaptic ;)18:24
hahlobitlike installing depencies18:24
konttori_both install dependencies18:24
qwerty12The only time h-a-m doesn't install dependencies is if you are installing from a local file as opposed to a repo18:25
konttori_true18:25
hahlobitbut with gui i couldn't install something which xterm installs18:25
qwerty12But it's no biggie to dpkg -i <deb file> && apt-get -f install18:25
konttori_true18:25
konttori_as long as end user packages work on appman18:26
konttori_it's not like appman would be hacker tool18:26
konttori_or developer tool18:26
qwerty12Yeah. When I was looking at trunk appman, I did see a red pill option called use apt-get algorithms - maybe it relates to situations like these?18:26
hahlobitis appman as good than synaptic is in other distros?18:26
konttori_probably not18:27
konttori_well, it isn't in the normal mode18:27
konttori_in red pill it's about as capable as any18:28
konttori_but that's not 'end user' territory18:28
hahlobitok18:28
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hahlobitdoes infobot know howto easily fix reboot loop18:34
hahlobit~reboot loop18:35
* infobot pushes loop's reset button18:35
qwerty12infobot, do you know how to easily fix a reboot loop?18:35
infobotyes, I know how to easily fix a reboot loop.18:35
qwerty12;)18:35
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lcukhow do i get gmail to show me a list of mails ordered by attachment size18:36
hahlobitconnect flash cable and then add battery?18:36
hahlobiti try that18:37
zakkmwho programmed infobot? :P18:37
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RST38hlcuk: no choice for me as far as emulatio18:39
lcuki know in your emu, you are as tied as me18:40
RST38hsorry, that was a stale message18:40
aquatixlcuk: load it in your favourite imap mail client and click the size column?18:40
lcukyeah it did whiff a bit18:40
lcukouch aquatix heh, im using about 3gb18:40
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lcuki have just sifted through - it was only a few days ago, so only a couple of hundred mails18:41
zakkmjust get it to read the headers, not download the emails18:41
zakkm;p18:41
lcukheaders show attachment size?18:41
RST38hmime headers do18:41
lcukits ok anyway, in the however many years ive had the account ive never needed this, but in my outlook express its simple ;)18:42
zakkmso use outlook express ;p18:42
lcukdifferent account18:42
zakkmso add your gmail ;p18:42
lcukand trying to rid myself of desktop app18:42
zakkmoh18:42
zakkmOS in a browser :P18:43
lcuknahhh, just webmail makes sense18:43
lcukapart from braindead hotmail18:43
zakkm:P18:44
* zakkm likes Apple's Mail program18:44
* lcuk checks if he has a fruity computer18:44
lcukits more bacony18:45
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admin_Hi, I've got an n770 running n800 OS, is the max. mmc card I can use 2GB? thanks18:56
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zakkmbelieve so18:58
zakkmisnt it slow?18:58
zakkmHacker editions18:58
Stskeepsadmin_: google "Support for SDHC cards and higher SD/MMC speeds for Nokia 770"18:59
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admin_Stskeeps: even though it's running n800he18:59
zakkmsounds slow ;p19:00
admin_like would this work http://tinyurl.com/6n6see19:00
admin_zakkm: well when you use swap from the mmc card, it's bearable :P19:01
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zakkmreally? wow19:04
admin_yeah, but the uh..number escapes me, but the latest n8** HE is terribly slow even with swap19:05
zakkmyeah thats what i once tried on my old 77019:06
admin_zakkm: any idea if the card on that link will work?19:06
zakkmin the end i just used 200619:06
admin_ah19:06
zakkmoh sorry, didnt see19:06
hahlobitis possible to really break the device without throwing it, mine doesn't seem to run anymore19:06
zakkmid say yes19:06
admin_:D19:06
admin_lol19:06
admin_I thought I bricked mine once back in the day - I just let it sit overnight and then it worked19:07
hahlobitgood plan19:07
Stskeepshahlobit: except when you brick boot loader you're usually able to flash it19:07
Stskeepsdoes it show the NOKIA logo?19:07
admin_I just bought one of those car casette adapters , you know so you can play mp3 player or whatever through car stereo, so I want a larger card for music on my nokia19:07
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hahlobityes it reboots or shutdown19:08
hahlobittried to flash it couple of times19:08
Stskeepshahlobit: then there's hope left :P got a linux computer?19:08
hahlobityes19:08
qwerty12hahlobit, is it actually charged? my tablet wouldn't go into flashing mode unless it had a decent amount of battery19:09
hahlobitok i try to charge some more19:09
zakkmleave it charged for a good 12 hours or something insanely19:09
hahlobitok19:10
zakkmtry a different outlet too19:10
disco_stusomeone has problems with wifiinfo after updating it?19:24
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lcukahhah19:24
* lcuk has been waiting for you19:24
zakkmi have the newest wifi info, and it causes me no problems.19:25
* disco_stu is afraid of lcuk 19:25
lcukyou shouldnt be :P did you see the message i left you19:25
disco_stuit starts and then closes19:25
JaffaOh dear. The start of the Star Trek trailer really is that bad19:25
disco_stulcuk, no i didnt19:25
lcukhave you still got it open19:26
lcukcos it would save me having to hunt it down again :P19:26
disco_stulcuk, open.. what ?19:27
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lcuki left you a pm yesterday19:27
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disco_stuit would be awesome to do something like the app in the video19:40
lcukits entirely possible19:40
zakkmwould battery life work well in deblet?19:41
disco_stuim watching davis cup, thats why im answering slowly19:41
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lcukstep into #liqbase and grab the .deb from jager, it will give ideas, obviously liqbase itself could give the graphics required19:42
disco_stulcuk, ok :)19:43
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disco_stuhope we can set a teamwork19:43
lcukyeah agreed :)19:44
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disco_stulcuk, wich appz use libqbase?19:53
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zakkmlcuk: why is the camera.. tiled ?19:54
zakkmin liqbase19:54
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: Where do we need xserver-xorg-video-omapfb?20:04
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MeizirkkiXorg seems to work without it20:05
Meizirkkiand i did not even create symbolic link from fb0 to fb20:05
MeizirkkiHas it something to do with tslib?20:05
StskeepsMeizirkki: well, you're probably using fbdev20:11
Stskeepswhich is awesomely slower :P20:11
MeizirkkiOkay20:12
Stskeepsif you were to do any kind of graphically intensive stuff, or video, it will suck :P20:12
Stskeepsso you're runnign ubuntu now? :P20:13
Stskeepsdesktop20:14
Meizirkkitrying to20:14
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inheritedis anyone running the maemo sdk on archlinux?20:26
penguinbaitWhen I plug in a USB hard drive, it automounts available partitions.  Is there a script or some hal command that I can rerun to make it automount again if I have unmounted them, without having to unplug and replugin the usb disk??  Anyone with any ideas?20:27
MeizirkkiStskeeps: Ubuntu runs, no mouse, and it is slow20:28
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StskeepsMeizirkki: well fbdev probably doesnt help on it20:32
Stskeepsnot that our omapfb works much better atm20:32
Stskeepscos of not doing manual updates in the ver we have20:32
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zakkmMeizirkki: ubuntu on the nokia?20:36
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Meizirkkizakkm:yes20:42
zakkmwow thats cool :)20:42
MeizirkkiStskeeps: the omapfb does not work on jaunty you remember :P20:43
StskeepsMeizirkki: yes, i do :P20:43
Stskeepsjust telling why it may be slow20:43
Meizirkkiyep20:43
Stskeeps.. and the fact it's friggen ubuntu20:43
Meizirkkignome have always been slow on tablet20:44
zakkmwhy ubuntu?20:44
Meizirkkijust trying :P20:44
zakkmwhy not do ubuntu-server and apt-get a DE or something20:44
zakkmso it would be quicker to test20:44
Meizirkkii don't know if ubuntu-server is installable20:45
zakkmscreen space must suck too20:45
zakkmfor gnome20:45
zakkmif ubuntu is, why not ubuntu-server?20:45
Meizirkkiwaiting for LXDE and u-m20:45
Meizirkkizakkm: offical ubuntu on arm is taking it's first steps20:46
zakkmubuntu server is official.20:46
zakkmah20:46
Meizirkkion arm?20:46
zakkmwhy though? sounds odd.. debian is for arm20:46
zakkmwhy would it take so long20:46
Meizirkkidebian is for armv420:46
Meizirkkiubuntu releases this far support armv520:47
zakkmwhat is the tablet?20:47
Meizirkkiboth will work on n8x0 (armv6el)20:47
Meizirkkimojo have ported hardy to armv6el20:47
zakkmscreen space sucks though for non hildon.. doesnt it?20:48
Meizirkkithe offical ubuntu this far, is just devenlopment branch20:48
zakkmi want to evantually use fvwm -crystal on my nokia20:48
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Meizirkkiarmv5/6 is a lot faster than debians armv4 port, thats why ubuntu. Gnome is only installable desktop environment on offical ubuntu this far...20:50
MeizirkkiSo i tried it20:51
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l7why ubuntu server in particular?20:51
MeizirkkiGnome looks good, but it really is slow when comparing to fvwm of LXDE20:51
l7the tablet does make a neat low power server for small tasks i guess20:52
l7gnome does seem like overkill for the tablet20:52
Meizirkkii know, i just TRIED it20:53
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StskeepsMeizirkki: welcome to my world20:55
Meizirkki? :P20:56
* qwerty12_N800 sighs as 9 hours worth of work is installed on my tablet finally20:57
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: which?20:57
lcukdisco_stu, liqbase uses liqbase..20:57
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, mpd with all the extras and everything optimised (even as far back as osso-esd)20:58
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: ah20:58
Stskeepsi'm writing a scary builder :P20:58
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qwerty12_N800this also means i can compile sox with mp3 support too as i compiled lame :)20:58
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SmackPotati'm not getting very far in trying to mount a usb device on a 77021:00
SmackPotatamy hints21:01
SmackPotatany21:01
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jagernotcant open the microphone using esound. whole maemo crashes21:08
jagernotany ideas? thanks.21:08
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l7has anyone figured out how to type at a decent speed on the thumbboard?21:33
lcukyeah, buy a bt21:34
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lcukevening rm_you enjoying your weekend?22:12
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jagernotanybody has code to read data from microphone...if possible not gstreamer as used in maemo-recorder22:14
andre__why not gstreamer?22:16
jagernotcos i use esound for audio out22:17
jagernotbut when i tried opening audio in with esound while having audio out it brings down my tablet :(22:18
jagernottotal crash22:18
qwerty12_N800does the led light up?22:19
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jagernoti cant get the home menu22:22
jagernotbut when i press the on/off button22:22
jagernotit allows me to switch off22:22
jagernotclean shutdown happens22:22
lcuktouchscreen dead?22:22
jagernotthen doesnt turn on..so i have to freeze it for a few mins..then it does..22:22
jagernottouchscreen is dead...so is the window list menu key22:23
lcukfreeze it?22:23
jagernotyeah22:23
jagernotcos it doesnt turn back on when it turns off22:23
rm_youlcuk: no >_<22:23
lcukthats because its never fully turned off22:23
lcuksounds like something is munching cpu cycles for fun22:24
lcukhave you tried simply shutting off and popping the battery22:24
lcukfreezing seems highly drawstic22:24
lcukrm_you, :(22:24
jagernotthis is related to the 'power on drama'22:24
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lcukyour a dev, take a guess at whats happening22:25
jagernotits documented as tablet too hot and software bug doesnt let it boot when its hot..22:25
jagernoti know im a dev22:25
lcukwow, can i have your crashy code22:25
jagernotu are busy writing instead of reading :D22:25
lcuki wanna duplicate it22:25
jagernotsearch 'power on drama'22:25
lcuki can also show you something that turns the lcd into a lens22:25
lcukno, i mean your reproducable code22:25
lcukive never had a "drama" though ive had processes lockup and remain even when device is shutdown22:26
lcukive had things drawn over the charging logo :$22:26
jagernotwhenever i turn the tablet off even if i dont run my app22:26
jagernotit fails to start back on22:26
lcukshit dude, yes i do, but why are you floating and not in a dialog window22:27
jagernot??22:27
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rm_youhe's talking to me22:27
rm_youi'm using /notice instead of PM22:27
lcuksorry jagernot ive got someone floating words in the irc stream instead of them being in an IM window22:27
jagernotoh ok22:28
rm_youPMs get lost... notices usually go in the active window22:28
rm_youwherever that window is22:28
lcukyeah, i would treat that as a privacy violation if i were elsewhere ;)22:28
rm_youlol22:28
lcuki might have to leave you in the toilets all night if you do it again :P22:28
rm_you>_<22:28
rm_youI was enjoying the floor22:28
rm_youit was nice and stable22:29
rm_younot spinning or tilting or anything22:29
lcukyeah, and warm as well22:29
rm_youreal quality floor22:29
lcukyellow tint though22:29
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rm_you<_<22:29
lcukive been like that often22:29
lcukwell, many times, not often22:30
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sp3000ahh the thread just keeps on giving!22:32
lcukwhich one?22:32
lcukahh22:33
lcuk..22:33
qwerty12_N800sp3000, he fails to realise kismet was already removed from that repo before the request to shutdown that repo was sent22:33
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sp3000heh, oops22:34
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Andy80hi all22:37
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lcukhiya andre__22:41
lcukAndy80,22:41
lcuksorry andre__22:41
Andy80hi lcuk :)22:42
andre__np22:42
* lcuk yawns and stretches and wonders how to proceed22:43
lcukshould i code then get drunk or get drunk then code22:44
Stskeepsget drunk code and get more drunk22:45
Stskeeps:P22:45
lcukthere is only 1 level of drunkenness22:45
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rm_youlcuk: not true22:46
lcukheh rm_you, for you there is a little variance, but inevitably you head towards the ground whichever state you are in22:47
rm_youThere's "kinda drunk", "fairly drunk", "exceedingly drunk", and "way too drunk", just to name a few22:47
sp3000let's all get drunk andd flame on maemo-users :D22:47
lcuknahhh sp3000 thats old hat, people have been doing that since yesterday22:47
sp3000well we have some catching up to do then22:48
lcukheh22:48
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lcukanyone know how i create a poll on itT?23:22
qwerty12_N800it's an option when you create a new thread23:23
qwerty12_N800where's penguinbait? :P23:23
lcuklol dunno23:24
lcukahhh well, done now :D23:25
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rm_youwhat version of flash are we on now?23:57
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rm_youi saw it in my upgrade list...23:57
rm_youanything I should know about when doing an apt-get upgrade? first time in like 3 months23:57
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