IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-11-19

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lcukmy stomach muscles are still achy from weekend :'(00:08
GeneralAntillesYou're so out of shape. :P00:09
GeneralAntillesGo take 15 minutes and stretch00:09
lcukim a geek, out of shape is perfectly healthy condition00:09
lcukyou are right though, i should really do more, perhaps with the next super tablet ill make it connect with cybernetic implants to actually force me to get up00:10
GeneralAntillesHehe00:10
GeneralAntillesNeed one of those muscle stimulators from the Matrix00:10
lcuki had a TENS machine a few years ago00:10
emmaThere really should be a technological solution to waking up in the morning. The alarm clock doesn't really cut it for me.00:11
lcuki might have a go at making another one, but i can only get AC from the wall, it might be a bit more dangerous00:11
lcukemma, same here00:11
emmaWhat is a TENS machine?00:12
emmamaybe like electric shocks to get you up.00:12
GeneralAntillesemma, the Jetsons has some fairly decent options. :P00:12
lcuklittle pads stuck on my back going to a battery pack which delivers controlled shocks00:12
emmaOr something like in the movies where the bed tilts up and you are in the shower.00:12
RST38hHere is how Carman install fails:00:12
RST38hUnpacking carman (from .../carman_0.7~beta1-8_all.deb) ...00:12
RST38hErrors were encountered while processing:00:12
RST38h /var/cache/apt/archives/carmand_0.7~beta1-8_armel.deb00:12
RST38hE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)00:12
RST38hAny ideas?00:12
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GeneralAntillesemma, Jetsons. :)00:12
lcukemma, alarm clocks have to be random and different00:12
StskeepsRST38h: out of space?00:12
RST38hSts: nope, 40+MB free00:13
emmaWell an Alarm Clock does it's job. It does wake me up. The problem is getting me out of bed.00:13
lcukmy missus woke me once by whispering "why is your computer doing that?"00:13
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GeneralAntillesHaha00:13
lcukit doesnt work if you preplan it though00:13
emmaMaybe something that could induce an overwhelming need to pee.00:13
Meiz_n810corrupted archive?00:14
Stskeepslcuk: that'd work with me too..00:14
lcuknahhh emma,00:14
lcukdo you snooze your alarm clock?00:14
emmaI find that on days when I can sleep in, the reason I finally do get out of bed and get going is because I gotta 'go'.00:14
lcukor do you just sleep though it00:14
emmaYes, like a dozen times.00:14
lcuktheres a great clock which is on a string from the ceiling00:15
emmaI set it for 4 am and I hit snooze until like 7 am.00:15
lcukeverytime you snooze it it goes heigher00:15
lcukeventually you cant reach it00:15
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emmaI have my alarm clock already on the other side of the room so that I have to get out of bed to go hit the snooze.00:15
lcuki just sleep through the snooze and the neighbours put up with it for 45 minutes00:15
lcukthen dive back in bed :D00:15
emmayes i hit the snooze then dive back in bed. Exactly.00:15
emmaI really hate getting up. It hurts me physically. I curse the stars each morning.00:16
emmaThere must be some technological way to force me to just get going.00:16
lcukif i HAVE to get up, ive got crappy macnhester music really loud on computer, alarm clock mobile phone, and 2 nokias - all at once00:16
GeneralAntillesHa00:16
GeneralAntillesIt's amazing how many times you can run across the room without ever waking up.00:16
lcukemma, its called moving to a different country with sane times for waking up00:16
emmaexactly.00:16
lcuki am perpectually living in the middle of the atlantic00:16
emmaI literally hit the snooze probably at least 10 times each morning.00:16
emmaeach time i get back in bed and sleep ten more minutes.00:17
lcukwhat time do you go to sleep at/wake up at00:17
emmaI have to leave the house by 7 am in order to avoid paying 35 dollars for a cab. But if I do pay the 35 dollars for a cab, then I can leave the apartment at 7:30. Any later and I'm late for work.00:18
emmaSuch is my inability to really get going in the morning that pretty much I pay 35 dollars 5 times a week.00:18
lcukso what time do you go to bed00:18
lcuk(and 7am is ungodly)00:18
emmaBetween Midnight and 2 am usually.00:18
emmaI have to get up at like 5:30, I have to leave the house at 7 or 7:30.00:19
lcukok, so if you could get your boss to let you work flexi and start at 10am is that better for you?00:19
emmaBecause I have to work at 8:0000:19
lcukor will it throw you even more - ie start sleeping even later00:19
emmaNo not really I don't have that sort of career.00:19
lcukbut if you could, would that help your waking up00:20
emmaI'm really my own boss but the industry such as it is, you can't keep people waiting.00:20
lcuki have no trouble waking up once i know im late00:20
emmaI think it might.00:20
emmaI think part of it is the hours. But part of it is just getting up.00:20
lcukits your body telling you you need more sleep - i bet though no matter what you cant sleep earlier00:20
emmaprobably true.00:20
emmaI really can't sleep until it's time to crash.00:21
lcukyeah same here00:21
emmaIve never really gone to bed until I would collapse if I didn't.00:21
lcuki get very little sleep00:21
lcukbut more at weekends :)00:21
* lcuk hibernates on a 7 day cycle00:21
emmaThe uberman sleep schedule seems interesting to me.00:22
emmaheard of that?00:22
lcuknope, but google will have, sec00:22
emmasupposedly it's what ben franklin, and thomas edison did.00:23
lcukahhh yes, i went through a phase of that years ago00:23
emmatrain  your body to go into REM imediately by taking a 20 minute nap every 4 hours.00:23
RST38h~curse INDT for writing crufty installation scripts00:24
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, INDT for writing crufty installation scripts !00:24
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RST38hOk, I know why Carman install fails00:26
lcukcos you are a bikeman?00:26
RST38hIt fails creating subdirs under MyDocs when MyDocs is symlinked to the external memory card00:27
* RST38h is a walkman mainly00:27
GeneralAntillesemma, is that the one Kramer tried on Seinfeld? ;)00:27
lcukbbl (not napping honestly)00:28
* GeneralAntilles jettisons lcuk out the airlock.00:30
lcukoi00:30
RST38hCarman lives!00:31
emmaGeneralAntilles: I think he might of yes.00:33
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GeneralAntillesandre__, ping.00:38
andre__GeneralAntilles, pong00:39
andre__or peng?00:39
Stskeepswow, that's a rant on m-d00:39
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* Jaffa mutters at still being at work at 2241.00:40
GeneralAntillesHa . . .00:40
* Stskeeps passes coffee to Jaffa00:40
* GeneralAntilles entered 2241 into bugzilla. <_<00:40
Jaffa2340 train home. Gets in to my station usually about 20 minutes ahead of schedule (0100, rather than 0120).00:41
JaffaThis is the last train home.00:41
qwerty12-N800Stskeeps, i've compiled x11vnc fine :/. it's not also entirely hard to convert a package from debhelper 6 to 5 :/00:41
Stskeepsmm, and i've had to go from 7 to 6 in ubuntu too00:41
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jagernotboxar (my audio synth) update: stereo rhythms and melody warping fx..download: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar_1.0-1_armel.deb comments welcome.01:55
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l7hey, does anyone know how to extract the original initfs file from the diablo image and restore it to the tablet?02:14
GeneralAntilles~flasher02:14
infobotfrom memory, flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher02:14
disco_stul7: you did it a few days ago02:15
disco_studid you get your tablet back to work ?02:15
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l7yeah, i don't want to reflash the entire tablet though, just the initfs part02:16
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l7disco_stu: not yet, i had to go out of town for a bit so the tablet is still stuck where it is02:17
disco_stul7: the charger was working ?02:17
l7still don't know, i am going to call nokia tech support later02:17
l7i found out the phones i have don't have the same size charging port02:18
disco_stul7: you can always try with your tongue, remember.. lol02:18
l7lol, no thanks02:18
disco_stuold phones02:18
l7i *think* i may be able to take the tablet into the nokia store and see if they'll help there02:18
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l7hrm, now i wonder whether i should mess around more in telnet mode or just try to reflash02:36
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disco_stuinfobot: wanna play poker ?02:54
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ron1nherro02:58
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l7phew, reflashing worked03:04
l7i better learn how to clone the system to sd now03:04
GeneralAntilles~boot-sd03:05
infobotit has been said that boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card03:05
l7heh thanks GeneralAntilles03:05
l7hmm, it looks like i have full battery03:05
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l7so i guess the thing was charging all along03:06
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l7now that i put my ear to it, the charger makes a distinctive buzz-click sound03:07
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l7the Clone OS to SD Deb!! Boot from SD made EASY thread is a bit odd03:20
l7http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1963903:20
l7why does he recommend different swap partition sizes based on the size of your SDHC card?03:20
l7i would think you'd just want to take the optimal amount of swap based on available ram to maximize your tablet's performance03:21
GeneralAntillesl7, dunno.03:21
GeneralAntillesJust use the wiki page. :P03:22
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l7heh ok03:22
l7can any old SD or SDHC card be used for booting?03:22
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GeneralAntillesWell, assuming it's bigger than 512MB03:23
GeneralAntillesClass 6 is more desirable because of the speed.03:23
l7hrm, this kind of makes me rethink my SD card buying plans03:24
l7it seems like having a few smaller 2 to 4GB SD cards lying around would be handy to hold a backup system03:25
l7though i guess i could buy a massive 32GB card and partition it up03:25
disco_stul7: congrats03:25
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l7disco_stu: thanks, i was really worrying the thing would brick03:26
l7it turned out i had a full battery strangely03:26
l7does your charger make a distinct sound by the way?03:27
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l7it seems like it will buzz-click when charging and simply buzz at a higher pitch when it's full03:27
l7it buzzes at a lower pitch when the device is unplugged03:28
GeneralAntillesIt's probably failing03:29
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l7GeneralAntilles: what makes you say that?03:32
GeneralAntillesThey usually don't make noises when they're in good shape03:33
l7hmm03:33
l7i suppose it's possible the charger corrupted some data on my device and caused it the become unbootable03:34
GeneralAntillesUnlikely03:34
lcukwhat buzzes, the psu plug or the nit itself03:35
l7then the device becoming unbootable and the possibly failing charger are just a coincidence?03:35
l7lcuk: the charger03:35
lcukthe noise difference is under load or not, i hear it with electronics all the time03:35
lcukyou say you are having a problem with it though03:35
l7lcuk: i don't know if it's the charger exactly03:36
l7here's the sequence of events:03:36
lcukwhat is happening03:36
lcukheh03:36
l7the device became unbootable at some point and would always get stuck at the end of the booting  progress bar03:37
l7reflashing fixed it03:37
l7now i noticed the charger makes some noise when i put my ear to it03:37
l7of course you have to put your ear about 2 inches away to hear it, so maybe it's always been that way03:38
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l7it makes a rhymthmic buzz-click when it's charging the tablet03:38
l7when charging is done, it will buzz at a high pitch03:38
GeneralAntillesYes, that's bad.03:38
l7when the tablet it unplugged, it seems to buzz at a slightly lower pitch03:38
l7hmm03:38
l7let me listen to my other nokia chargers03:39
l7does anyone else's tablet charger buzz?03:39
lcukis that the only problem?03:39
lcukwhats your AC voltage and how large is the brick03:39
lcukit should do it to varying degree with all electronics03:40
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l7hrm, let me get a ruler03:41
l7hey, this is interesting: the charger buzzes when it shares an outlet with my laptop03:42
lcukheh, is it bigger than a std plug03:42
lcukor same size03:42
l7but when i plug it into a wall outlet by itself, it does not buzz03:42
lcuki can hear my cellphone charger from across the room03:42
lcukpractically no current draw03:42
l7it's about 2 and 1/2" inches wide03:42
l73/4 inch tall, 1 1/2" inch deep03:43
l7i thought all tablet chargers should look about the same, but maybe with a different plug in europe03:43
lcukwhere are you?03:44
l7in the US03:44
lcukahh, im in the uk, us plugs are smaller than ours, it would make for a different design03:44
l7it's too bad they don't use the same plugs around the world anyway03:44
lcukfor other reasons03:44
l7weird, why would the UK version get bigger chargers?03:45
lcukhave you tried your other chargers03:45
l7some kind of EU or UK consumer law maybe?03:45
l7let me grab the phone charger03:45
lcukplug form factor can fit charger circuit within it03:45
lcuknot larger though than a standard plug, but some chargers (older higher amp) are larger bricks03:46
SmackPotata lot of chargers work both on 120 or 22003:48
SmackPotatvoles03:48
l7re03:48
SmackPotatvolts03:49
l7okay, my phone's charger also makes a high frequency buzz03:49
lcukl7, be thankful you can still hear things, or be upset at the onset of tinnitus03:49
l7heh03:50
lcuki can hear every outlet in the room, and often go round switching them off to get some p&q03:50
lcukthe worst offender is our knackered old tv, its got a dodgy pot inside which squeels in a different note on different channels03:51
l7one of those old picture tube TVs?03:51
lcukheh yeah :)03:52
l7those things all make the most annoying whine03:52
lcukwell we just confirmed you are sensitive to it03:52
l7never seemed to bother my parents, but perhaps it's in a frequency range that old people can't hear03:52
SmackPotatcan i use a 16gb flash drive with a 770, how about a usb sound card03:52
l7usb sound card??03:53
SmackPotatya a $5 one03:53
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SmackPotatfor imputing from a fm radio03:53
l7by attaching it through a usb hub i guess?03:54
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SmackPotati got host mode a female femal plug and a hub03:54
l7i don't think i've ever considered such a thing03:54
GeneralAntillesSmackPotat, if you have drivers for it. . . .03:54
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SmackPotathow does that work i should load the modules from /mt/infs/lib/modules/current03:56
SmackPotat?03:56
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l7it probably depends on the specs of the sound card03:56
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l7it seems unlikely to be that maemo would include many extra drivers, though maybe the deblet would03:57
SmackPotatok03:57
SmackPotatya the files are there but it says file exists(-1) when i try to insmode03:57
l7man, i have a slight ear ache after putting my ears up those chargers03:58
SmackPotatcould they just be placeholders03:58
SmackPotatlol03:58
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l7messing with kernel modules is a bit beyond me04:03
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SmackPotatme too04:05
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l7hrm, i wish the printable version of the wiki pages would be a bit more streamlined04:08
l7dropping the ToC would help a lot04:08
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disco_stujjo: arcitelan ?04:47
disco_stuguess not04:48
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Jsn0327has a2dp been implemented on the n810 yet?05:24
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GeneralAntillesDoes somebody unfamiliar with the maemo.org development process want to look at this and tell me whether it actually informs you about the process? https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints05:50
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i read the doc05:53
disco_stubut as im very familiar with scrum05:53
disco_stusounds good05:53
GeneralAntillesYeah, I'm digging up some non-scrum-familiar friends to read through it and tell me whether it help.s05:54
disco_sturight05:54
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't expect them to suddenly become experts from it05:55
GeneralAntillesThe bugzilla stuff is probably a bit heavy for newbies05:55
disco_stuof course05:55
GeneralAntillesbut it's not really critical to understanding the overall process.05:55
GeneralAntillesThis might be a useful link, actually.05:56
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.bugzilla.org/docs/2.18/html/bug_page.html05:56
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Luriais it just me or has maemo slowed down since diablo?07:18
Luriaim going to reflash later tonight, but i haven't really done much to my IT.07:19
GeneralAntillesIt's just you07:19
GeneralAntillesThere've been significant optimizations throughout the whole system over the past few months.07:19
Luriaidk, the memory footprint grows and grows.07:20
GeneralAntillesUsually an install doesn't get faster as time progresses and you install more and more stuff.07:20
Luriaits not like i'm running apache. i haven't added any daemons. well, hopefull the reflash helps.07:22
zakkm:)07:22
Luriasigh, cant wait for my pandora.07:22
zakkmpandora ?07:23
Luriastill, i like my n810 so much.07:23
GeneralAntillesLuria, and the gpx menu launcher? :P07:23
Luriazakkm: #openpandora07:23
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Luriawell, itll be fast :-)07:24
zakkm430-MHz TMS320C64x+™ DSP Core07:24
GeneralAntillesLuria, fast doesn't mean much without software to go with it. ;)07:24
GeneralAntilleszakkm, look up the OMAP353007:25
Luriathats the dsp, not the cpu07:25
zakkmoh right07:25
zakkm600mhz ;p07:25
GeneralAntillesLuria, hopefully there'll be enough progress with Maemo Reconstructed to get it running on the Pandora by the time it ships, though.07:25
Luriavery similar to the beagle board07:25
GeneralAntillesOMAP3 is terrifying07:25
GeneralAntillesLuria, same SoC07:25
zakkmhow much is the pandora?07:26
GeneralAntilles$379 or so07:26
GeneralAntillesUSD07:26
zakkmoh expensive07:26
GeneralAntillesBut there wont be anymore available until the Spring07:26
Luria$365 shipped07:26
zakkmmaemo reconstruct working well?07:26
Luriaalso, 256mb ram07:26
zakkmis it worth trying on my nokia ?07:26
GeneralAntilleszakkm, it's also the ugliest piece of hardware you've ever seen.07:26
GeneralAntilleszakkm, it's not quite usable yet07:26
zakkmyeah it does look bad07:26
GeneralAntillesIt really wont offer you any advantages over regular old Maemo at this point.07:27
zakkmit looks like its suppose to be a gaming system07:27
zakkmwhat about speed improvements?07:27
Luriathat depends.07:27
zakkmlower memory usage?07:27
GeneralAntilleszakkm, probably more at the moment.07:27
zakkmoh07:27
zakkmwould be nice to have gnome and stuff ;p07:29
GeneralAntillesLuria, be warned, the kernel still isn't quite up to speed for OMAP307:29
GeneralAntillesSo unless OpenPandora has a shitload of patches waiting in the wings, be prepared to play with your kernel.07:29
GeneralAntilleszakkm, GNOME sucks on a 4" screen07:30
zakkmyeah lol07:30
zakkmi was thinking more resolution than screensize07:30
GeneralAntillesYou'll have to hit insanely small targets with the stylus.07:30
zakkmim a gnome fan for desktop usage07:30
* Luria wonders how quickly the maemo flash9 is going to get "borrowed" for pandora07:31
Luriahulu on the go would be nice.07:31
Luriai wish nokia would give us an omap3 IT already07:31
GeneralAntillesLuria, I give it about a day.07:31
GeneralAntillesI'm surprised it hasn't already, actually.07:31
GeneralAntillesLuria, well, OMAP3 has only just hit production silicon this month. . . .07:31
zakkmwhy the rush07:32
GeneralAntillesRush for?07:33
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zakkma OMAP3 IT07:33
GeneralAntillesBecause OMAP3 is batshit insane.07:33
zakkmspeed?07:33
GeneralAntillesEasily 2-3x the performance of OMAP207:33
l7how long should it take to complete https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card ?07:34
zakkm20min?07:34
l7i guess i can stay awake that long07:34
GeneralAntillesl7, copying over the data is probably the longest part07:34
GeneralAntillesabout 10 minutes for that07:34
l7for the awesomeness of SD booting07:34
GeneralAntilles720p decoding whereas we can't even manage manage DVD quality with OMAP207:34
Luriathe performance and battery life is outstanding07:34
* Luria needs to get a beagleboard to tinker07:34
l7GeneralAntilles: ah cool07:35
zakkmGeneralAntilles: I do 350mb xvid's just fine though07:35
GeneralAntilleszakkm, also, a lot of us have been using OMAP2 tablets since January 200707:35
GeneralAntillesIt's getting a little long in the tooth.07:35
zakkmits not dvd quality but yeah07:35
zakkmah07:35
* qole suggests a pandora07:35
zakkmthings are getting faster though ;p07:35
GeneralAntilleszakkm, sure, I watch movies and TV shows on my N800 all the time07:35
GeneralAntillesBut the quality could be better.07:35
zakkmi see alot of "newest SSU is faster" on the forums07:35
l7i feel it would be useful to have a backup of a vanllia install before i go messing it up by filling it up from extras07:35
zakkmbut 720p is huge filesize for one07:35
zakkmit takes alot of storage space07:36
Luriayeah, im on my third tablet.. and it doesnt feel much different from the 77007:36
zakkml7: the install-tools deb is nice :P i used that for cloning07:36
GeneralAntilleszakkm, sure, and the screen can't even display most of a 720p image07:36
GeneralAntillesThe point is mostly to illustrate exactly how insanely powerful the OMAP3 is.07:36
zakkmthat too ;p07:36
Luriasince the tablet is all interface and not crunching07:36
zakkmits only 800x480 .. bitrate could be higher though i guess07:36
Luriafeel is important07:36
GeneralAntillesLuria, actually, OMAP3 has a higher ceiling for power usage.07:37
zakkmalso cpu load..07:37
zakkmit takes alot of cpu load to do 720p.. battery life will die07:37
zakkm;p07:37
GeneralAntillesIt's just that it can totally switch the CPU off while idle instead of practically switching it off. ;)07:37
Luriayeah, looking forward to a hundred hour mp3 player07:37
l7zakkm: there's no deb mentioned in https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card  do you mean Deblet?07:38
GeneralAntillesThe fscking massive battery on the Pandora helps, too.07:38
zakkmno07:38
zakkminstall-deb or install-tools07:38
zakkmonesec l707:38
Luriayes :-)07:38
l7oh, so there's another way to do this07:38
zakkmhttp://tablethacker.com/wp/?p=1207:38
zakkmyou just install deb.. in maemo ;p and then it does everything for you07:39
zakkmcopying and stuff, bootloader ;p;07:39
zakkmokay so its lazy but yes :)07:39
Luriai've been looking for the modern equivalent to a hp200lx for a long time07:39
zakkml7: read that page :P07:39
Luriai have hope for pandora07:39
zakkmn810 looks alot nicer than the pandora :P07:39
l7zakkm: oh this is the weird one that varies your swap size according to SD card dize07:40
l7size07:40
Luria(not as a pda, but a long life computer in clamshell)07:40
zakkml7: you know how to shrink swap partition dont you? :P07:40
qoleI'm excited to see the real world reviews of the Pandora.07:40
l7still, it sounds neat if it doesn't require any work aside from opening the deb07:40
zakkmor even delete and raise the other07:40
zakkmit works though and doesnt brick ;p07:40
l7zakkm: not really07:40
zakkm2gb only made 128mb swap ;p07:40
GeneralAntillesqole, I'm exciting to see Karel lose it when he finds out exactly the kind and quality of software he's going to get out of the box.07:40
zakkmoh i have 4gb card.. so 256mb swap ;p07:41
l7zakkm: oh i mean i guess you can change partition size after it's done07:41
qolehaha...true07:41
zakkmit works though, so whatever :P07:41
zakkmits not like swap gets wasted07:41
GeneralAntillesMore than 128MB of swap is likely to actually reduce performance07:41
Luriaim ok with an ncurses ui :-)07:41
qoleall hacker-quality stuff07:41
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure why penguinbait thought more swap was a good idea.07:41
zakkmwhats the swapiness at?07:41
zakkmin maemo?07:41
zakkmvm.swapiness07:42
Luriahows deblet coming along?07:42
GeneralAntilleszakkm, 007:42
l7zakkm: is the source for that deb available?07:42
qoleI don't know anything about Angstrom, I should read up on it07:42
GeneralAntillesqole, he's got it good with all of Maemo's UI to bitch about07:42
zakkml7: no idea, i just saw the blog post and installed ;p07:43
GeneralAntillesHe's gonna get this out of the box with the Pandora: http://archive.gp2x.de/cfiles/screenshots/gmenu2x.png07:43
l7heh07:43
l7man, i hate it when my browser tries to display a deb file07:43
Luriai love how ubuntu dropped power and picked up arm07:43
Luriathat was very apple of them.07:43
GeneralAntillesLuria, well, if you look at the numbers. ;)07:43
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zakkmdropped powerpc?07:44
Lurias/power/ppc07:44
zakkmoh07:44
* zakkm was wondering what power was ;p07:44
GeneralAntillesARM _is_ the most popular architecture on the planet07:44
GeneralAntillesBy several orders of magnitude.07:44
Luriayes, power pc, not power07:44
zakkmno way.. xbox's use ppc :)07:44
zakkmknow how many people have one :D07:44
l7hrm, didn't know that07:44
GeneralAntillesl7, all current consoles are PPC, interestingly.07:45
qoleGeneralAntilles, are you serious about that menu?07:45
GeneralAntillesqole, yeah.07:45
GeneralAntillesThey probably have SOME improvements in store for the Pandora release07:45
qolejust...wow07:45
l7GeneralAntilles: oh yeah, now i remember that the Gamecube was PPC07:45
GeneralAntillesbut that's what it looked like on the GP32x07:45
zakkmthe xbox 360 is a tricore powerpc  ..07:45
GeneralAntillesl7, as is the Wii.07:45
zakkmpowerpc as a desktop is dead, not the architecture though ;p07:46
GeneralAntilleszakkm, it's not nearly as powerful as it sounds07:46
l7i'm so out of it, i haven't played with any of the shiny new consoles07:46
zakkmi know07:46
zakkmbut its still popular :P07:46
GeneralAntillesvery little cache, only one process per core07:46
zakkmmade it sound like ppc was dead07:46
zakkm:P07:46
GeneralAntillesAnyway, console sales don't even come close to ARM sales.07:46
Luriaim thinking of buying an old POWER4 box for shits und giggles07:46
l7why do they use PPC on consoles anyway?07:46
GeneralAntillesIt's a fairly elegant architecture.07:46
l7is it that much faster for gaming?07:47
zakkmyeah but someone was like apple dropped powerpc, now ubuntu did.. made it seem like it was going dead ;p07:47
zakkmits probably stable ;p07:47
GeneralAntillesl7, consoles have the advantage of not having to worry about legacy compatibility.07:47
Luriathats not what said07:47
Luriadamn n810 keyboard07:47
zakkmhard to emulate :)07:47
zakkmlol07:47
zakkm:D07:48
l7hmm07:48
GeneralAntillesThe computing world would totally not be using x86 if Intel didn't have so much money behind it and there weren't 30 years of legacy behind it.07:48
zakkmx86_64! :D07:48
l7that reminds me, the original xbox was x86 based07:48
l7i think it was related to the fact that MS wanted to throw something together quickly07:48
GeneralAntillesIt was basically an off-the-shelf Celeron box.07:48
GeneralAntillesRight07:48
Luriaits not intel's fault07:49
zakkmwait, its x86?07:49
GeneralAntillesThey also lost shitloads of money on it. ;)07:49
zakkmwouldnt that make a ncie x86 server then?07:49
l7heh07:49
Luriathey've tried killing x86 twice07:49
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Luriaand boy did it cost 'em07:49
l7that's why so many people like to hack the xbox i guess07:49
l7kinda wish i bought one for media center use now07:49
GeneralAntillesl7, ebay!07:50
l7heh07:50
GeneralAntillesThey're super cheap these days.07:50
zakkmebay....07:50
zakkmjunk yards :D07:50
GeneralAntillesYou can probably get in for about $100-$150 with software hacks.07:50
Luriaebay ftw07:50
GeneralAntillesand they're fantastic media centers07:50
l7that's not bad07:50
GeneralAntilles'course, for that price you should be a real Linux hacker and get a Beagle Board. ;)07:50
l7maybe upgrade the hard drive and it the other parts should last a long time07:50
Luriai got a as/400 for fun... $95 shipped07:51
l7ah, Beagle Boards are probably too technical and time consuming for me07:51
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's a project07:51
GeneralAntillesThe Xbox has fairly mature software and tools.07:51
zakkmbeagle board is that really small arm motherboard right?07:51
l7n800's and my linux box are enough project for me right now :)07:51
GeneralAntillesWeekend thing as opposed to every weekend until the Beagle goes up in smoke. ;)07:51
GeneralAntilleszakkm, it's a Pandora without the case.07:52
zakkmwow its late here ( 12:52AM )07:52
l7it's a little ironic how microsoft invented such a nice open source platform07:52
l7i think cory doctorow called it taking advantage of some else's failed business model to make a cool project07:53
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RST38h~seen handful08:43
infobothandful <n=marceloe@200.184.118.132> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 46d 10h 13m 36s ago, saying: 'RST38h: hail! :)'.08:43
RST38hheh08:43
RST38h~seen etrunko08:43
infobotetrunko <n=edulima@200.184.118.132> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14d 11h 7m 9s ago, saying: ':)'.08:43
GeneralAntillesRST38h, #canola is usually a good bet08:43
RST38hah08:43
GeneralAntillesOr email. . . .08:43
GeneralAntillesBut it's 4 in the morning there.08:43
RST38hToo bad...Oh well, will come a bit later08:44
RST38h'cause I found why Carman installation failed and it is not pretty08:44
RST38hwhen ~MyDocs is symlinked, Carman scripts can't install directories in it08:45
GeneralAntillesSounds like a Nokia bug. :P08:46
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RST38hwell, if you consider these guys working on Canola/Carman as nokians... =)08:48
RST38hSorry, I used a wrong word - not install, MAKE directories08:48
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GeneralAntillesSymlinking MyDocs is just a nasty plan all around.08:49
RST38hwell, there are no alternatives that I know of08:50
GeneralAntilles~boot-sd08:50
infobotwell, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card08:50
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RST38hNo, thanks, as it is way more invasive08:50
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't break things08:50
RST38huntil you do an update08:50
GeneralAntillesIt speeds things up, gives you a bootable backup, and also increases application install space.08:50
GeneralAntillesMeh, just reflash the initfs08:51
GeneralAntillesTakes 5 minutes.08:51
RST38halthough yes, it does inscrease app install space08:51
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RST38hAnyways, I do not think failure to mkdir stuff in symlinked MyDocs is a system level problem. It is probably some minor glitch in the Carman postinst script08:52
GeneralAntillesRST38h, my point was that it's the same bug that Nokia had with the preinstalled documentation postinst that messed up the last round of SSU updates.08:53
GeneralAntillesNot that it was a platform issue.08:53
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hahlobitwhen you pull something with wget, filemanager doesn't seem to find it?08:59
GeneralAntillesDepends on where you pull it to. . . .08:59
hahlobitjust opening terminal09:00
hahlobitlike every other linux09:00
RST38hGeneral: Weirdly, the last SSU worked for me09:01
hahlobithad to cp it to some Mydocs before it findw09:01
hahlobitfinds it09:02
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hahlobitis there any better filemagers for os2008?09:06
GeneralAntillesemelfm209:06
GeneralAntillesxterm09:06
l7anyone tried kingston vs transcend microsd cards on their tablets yet?09:07
l7there's a bunch of 4gb microsd cards for 9 or 10 bucks on newegg09:08
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l7"The thing almost melted in my PC it got so hot. I was using the micro adapter and inserted it into the side of my computer's SD reader when I noticed it wasn't recognizing with Windows. When I tried to take it back out of the PC it nearly seared my fingertips. It also wouldn't work with my new Windows Mobile 6.1 phone."09:10
l7scary to imagine this one melting down in a tablet09:10
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hahlobitemelfm2 seems better thanks09:16
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zetheroo1is there any user-friendly documentation available for getting Maemo Mapper and flite to work together?09:45
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Stskeepshttp://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24606 <- i'm not sure if the second post is spam or an awesome reply :P10:17
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johnxStskeeps, I think it's spam but somehow it's still awesome10:32
Stskeepshehe10:34
* Stskeeps got a mojo bootstrapped on the beagleboard yesterday10:37
GeneralAntillesOh good lord10:37
GeneralAntillesI've got 4 wiki edits queued and the damn server goes down.10:37
Stskeepsheh10:38
Stskeepsi plan to do a simple solution with a irc bot responding to some commands to grab bzr/svn and compile it, johnx10:38
Stskeepsand then have different targets such as x86/armv5el-mojo/armv5el-vfp-mojo, and so on10:38
Stskeepsin different chroots with diff parameters10:38
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Stskeepsso we'll have a service set up that'll build the various versions for all targets :P10:45
hahlobitabout using xterm as a file manager, how to send somefile with bluetooth to somedevice?10:45
tekojoGeneralAntilles: What wiki down?10:46
GeneralAntillestekojo, it's back up.10:46
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tekojoGeneralAntilles: This just proves I am slow :-)10:46
hahlobitwhat about man pages, haven't found them yet?10:54
GeneralAntillesPurged10:54
GeneralAntillesThey're mostly available on maemo.org10:54
GeneralAntilles~manpages10:54
infobotYou can find manpages online at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi . You can find here manpages appropriate for your unix or Linux distribution10:54
GeneralAntilles~maemo-man10:54
infobotfrom memory, maemo-man is http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/10:54
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hahlobitok used to use them in every other unix10:56
GeneralAntillesRemember, we're limited on storage space10:57
GeneralAntillesHaving 20MB of manpages isn't exactly ideal. :)10:57
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hahlobittrue10:58
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hahlobitapps just keep telling rtfm :) don't run as root just make it suid so we can drop priviledges, please read man page!11:00
GeneralAntillesKarma still stuck. . . .11:02
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johnxStskeeps, we can also add hooks to bzr I think11:08
johnxbuild on upload or somesuch11:08
johnxs/upload/commit/11:08
infobotjohnx meant: build on commit or somesuch11:08
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Nah, there is just this code: if (user->username == 'generalantilles') die();11:08
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I don't blame you, gotta keep the status quo intact. :D11:09
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: It still takes at least a day to be sure that the problem isn't fixed by the upgrade.11:10
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, if it keeps up I'm gonna have to put together one of these https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Bugzilla_report_card that'll read "X-Fade's report card" and fail you in a bunch of made up subjects for a bunch of arbitrary and trivial reasons. :P11:10
X-FadeHeh..11:11
GeneralAntillesKnitting - he hasn't made maemo.org sweaters as tribute to the Council yet - F-11:13
johnxnon-zero number of dashes in user name11:13
Myrttiknitting? what where?11:13
GeneralAntilles~nickometer X-Fade11:14
infobot'X-Fade' is 19.000% lame, generalantilles11:14
Myrttiif someone makes a knitting pattern software for maemo that saves the patterns in KnitML, I'll make mittens for him/her.11:14
GeneralAntillesNick isn't lame enough - F-11:14
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Not too bad ;)11:14
Myrttithe touch screen in maemo and the usecases would be excellent.11:14
GeneralAntillesMy sister has a sewing machine that hooks up to a Gameboy for patterns.11:15
Myrttipossibly also bake a selection of seven Finnish traditional cookies and send over courier mail11:15
MyrttiGeneralAntilles: DS or older?11:15
GeneralAntillesThe original Advance, I think.11:15
Myrtti(please, DS, I have one)11:15
Myrttidamnit11:15
Stskeepsjohnx: also a possibility i guess11:16
GeneralAntilleshttp://pocketgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/singer-izek-gameboy-controlled-sewing.html11:16
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Myrttiagain. The touch screen with stylus would make maemo tablets / Nintendo DS a perfect thing for knitting patterns11:16
MyrttiI guess I'll have to start lobbing that idea again for the applicants of Finnish Summercode11:17
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johnxi've set it up before with svn11:17
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Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, but bzr is a bit different creature:)11:23
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johnxI gathered that. it has to have commit hooks though, right11:24
Stskeepsnot sure really, but haven't looked that close11:24
Stskeepsok, im off to the bus11:26
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Meiz_n810Offical ubuntu midori port seems to work better than mojos one.. Newer version..11:27
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Meiz_n810they will soon compile kernel for omap211:28
johnxwell that's really fast turnaround time after their announcement11:31
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Meiz_n810How can i set priority of repos?11:55
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Meiz_n810just add apt.prefrences to apt.conf.d?11:58
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Guest2113_541hi12:09
Guest2113_541how to get targus mouse to work?12:10
Guest2113_541i get it work but in some reasons its works too slooooooow12:10
Guest2113_541its normal? 0_012:11
Guest2113_541hello? any buddy?12:11
Guest2113_541\quit12:11
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: how do you mean "work better"?12:30
Meiz_n810settings dialog works in hildon, and it actually works, mojos midori stalled when i tried last time12:32
Stskeepssettings panel work with M-R packages or?12:36
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johnxMeiz_n810, set priority in /etc/apt/preferences12:48
Meiz_n810thanks12:50
johnxthere should be an example already :) in fact your probably just want to reverse the current priorities12:51
MyrttiO NOES! my long thumb fingernail I've used as a stylus chipped! how can I live now?! oh wait. nvm.12:52
johnxstart using more thumb friendly software :)12:52
towoOh noes, a Myrtti here.12:52
JaffaMorning, all12:53
StskeepsMyrtti: glue on a stylus tip12:53
Stskeeps:P12:53
Myrttihow can I irc now with no long thumbnails in either of the hands12:53
Myrttieep.12:53
* Myrtti huggles towo 12:53
towoMyrtti: Use a bluetooth keyboard.12:54
GeneralAntillesSame way I IRC. . . .12:54
GeneralAntillesWith the finger keyboard12:54
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Havaplayer is incoming.12:54
MyrttiGeneralAntilles: it's unintuitive for me... I've tried, several times12:54
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, is it really?12:54
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GeneralAntillesI harassed their support again yesterday12:54
GeneralAntillesFast turnaround12:54
Myrttiwith irssi and lots of channels it's really cumbersome12:55
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, I just sent out the invitation after I got a request.12:55
GeneralAntillesI don't think the first request actually went anywhere productive.12:55
GeneralAntillesSame thing seemed to happen when I tried going through Boingo's public support channel.12:55
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: karel : "Angstroem on NAND and Ubuntu for download on SD. VLC Player likely to be preinstalled. Applications available as self-contained ZIP archives. There is now talk of OpenPandora becoming an Ubuntu Partner."12:56
Stskeepshow is this any different than maemo? :P12:56
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, he lives in a delusional world.12:56
StskeepsMaemo on NAND, ubuntu for download on SD, VLC able to be installed, applications as debs, ..12:56
johnxmaemo on pandora is like the best of all possible worlds12:57
johnxin terms of potential software environments for the pandora12:57
GeneralAntillesGood lord . . . I believe Netflix on Xbox may very well end me.12:58
johnxbecause of it not working or because of it working?12:59
GeneralAntillesBecause it's like regular Netflix but without the mailman delay. <_<12:59
* X-Fade wonders if he should approve a project on garage named 'wtf'.12:59
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, well, what's the description? :D13:00
X-Fadehe Comicviewer (which is, due to a lack of a better name, named wtf) is/will be a small application to view Comic Book Archives in standard .cbr and .cbz container files, optimized for maemo devices.13:00
GeneralAntillesjohnx, it works great, actually.13:00
RST38hjohnx: Blasphemy!13:00
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: is the latest mer-installer in svn?13:00
RST38hjohnx: Karel will murder you with an ice pick13:00
GeneralAntillesA rusty ice pick13:00
RST38hGeneral: That depends on how often he uses his13:01
johnxRST38h, heh. just wait, I intend to try and get everyone behind it as the primary development platform too :)13:01
GeneralAntillesRST38h, probably often, and it's probably not cleaned between uses.13:01
StskeepsMeiz_n810: think so13:01
X-FadeSo the description isn't offensive :)13:01
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, maybe an intermediate email telling him he can't change it later would be appropriate.13:01
RST38hGeneral: He licks it.13:01
GeneralAntillesI mean, I could care less if it were called "Fuck all tablets"13:02
RST38hjohnx: I do suspect you mean the upper level and not the system level?13:02
GeneralAntillesBut it just isn't a very inspired name. . . .13:02
RST38hComic readers are hardly inspiring...13:02
johnxRST38h, right. think m-r :)13:03
Stskeepsmer ;)13:03
Stskeeps:P13:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, you just haven't seen any good ones yet. :P13:03
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I like Mer.13:03
RST38hNever needed one, really...13:03
GeneralAntillesMaybe talking about Maemo Reconstructed -> m-r -> Mer to make the (well, a) connection for people.13:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, neither have I come to think of it. . . .13:04
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RST38hGolemaemo13:04
johnxRST38h, GeneralAntilles spend more time on trains and you'll want a comic reader :P13:05
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: MAemo Reconstructed => Maer => Mær => bitch, in danish13:05
Stskeeps:P13:05
RST38hjohnx: I spend 3 hours a day in trains and buses13:05
Stskeeps:P13:05
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I'd probably just stick to FBReader and/or 3G stuff like web and IRC.13:05
johnxwhat do you *do* in that time? O_o13:05
RST38hjohnx: Just don't understand why a normal text-based book is not sufficient13:05
RST38hjohnx: Books. Mail. Web. IRC =)13:06
johnxah, those last 3 aren't an option without a reasonable data plan (or a lot more income :P )13:06
johnxfor me at least13:06
RST38hjohnx: Remember, it is .RU13:06
johnxok, you'll have to make a better sales pitch to get me to move though :P13:07
RST38hjohnx: $.15/MB of GPRS traffic13:07
RST38hjohnx: this is without any special data plan (but with heavy internet usage option added for ~$3/month)13:08
RST38hRather slow though, given that my E70 has no EDGE and MTS has no 3G yet13:08
johnxnext time I'm up to renew my phone contract I'll look again13:09
johnxfor now I'm locked in to something with just IRDA or clunky USB for tethering13:09
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hahlobithow much that maemo-launcher should eat  memory? mine takes 29% must be something wrong13:29
johnxsounds right13:30
hahlobitthat much13:30
johnxa lot of stuff is actually running inside the maemo-launcher process13:30
johnxdesktop applets, plugins, etc13:30
johnxalso, remember that it's not really "29%"13:31
johnxa lot of that are shared libraries that other apps are using as well13:31
hahlobitok thanks13:31
hahlobiti try to close it but bounced back on13:32
johnxif you actually stopped it your tablet would stop really working13:32
johnxuntil you rebooted of course13:32
hahlobitdoes deblet has it?13:33
johnxno actually13:33
johnxit's mainly used for saving memory if you're running hildon-desktop, but it's kind of a pain to make it work outside of maemo13:33
hahlobityou have more free memory on deblet then?13:34
johnxnot really. no13:34
X-Fadejohnx: I think it is more for speeding up application start.13:34
johnxbut it depends on what desktop you're running13:34
X-Fadejohnx: As you don't have to load all the libs anymore.13:35
johnxX-Fade, ah, ok. must have misremembered13:35
hahlobitcan we add ram to tablets?13:36
johnxhahlobit, no13:36
hahlobitok pity13:36
johnxback later13:36
hahlobitwhat about browserd does it have to run all the time?13:39
GAN800Speeds up browser startup13:41
GAN800and will eventually provide a browser engine for other applications13:41
GAN800So will end up saving RAM in the long run13:41
GAN800hahlobit, things are the way they are for a reason. :)13:42
GAN800Nokia doesn'r just arbitrarily do things to waste RAM.13:42
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hahlobitGAN800: ok nokia is more ram friendly then13:44
suihkulokkimaemo-launcher saves ram and start apps faster. however, as a consequence it makes it look like all the applications running are instances of maemo-launcher13:45
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hahlobitso one cannot tune tablets much better?13:48
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GAN800Well, you could tune them for a different set of requirements13:49
GAN800But Nokia has done a pretty good job of tuning for the 'mobile' use case.13:49
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hahlobitok13:50
hahlobitjust use to speed up operating systems13:51
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RST38hhahlobit: What do you mean by tune?13:52
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Guysoft42hey, if i want to develop for maemo, in linux. what toolkits do i need?14:03
RST38hMaemo SDK14:03
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Guysoft42RST38h, where can i get the sdk?14:20
disco_stu~sdk14:22
infobotSoftware Development Kit14:22
disco_stu~scratchbox14:22
infobotscratchbox is probably a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/14:22
zetheroo1is there any user-friendly documentation available for getting Maemo Mapper and flite to work together?14:23
johnxerrr...not really though14:23
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disco_stuit should work with both installed14:24
johnxmaemo sdk is here: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/14:24
johnx~maemo-sdk14:24
infobothmm... maemo-sdk is the development environment for the Nokia Internet Tablets, found here: http://maemo.org/development/14:24
johnxwell, and there14:24
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zetheroo1disco_stu : got both installed on my N800 and N810 ... and it does not work on either one14:25
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disco_stuin maemo-mapper configuration you have to  enable flite14:26
zetheroo1disco_stu: yep, done that as well in both machines14:27
zetheroo1and in both machines flite works in the Terminal14:27
zetheroo1I also started a thread in the Maemo Mapper site ... but nobody is answering there either ... :(14:29
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disco_stuwell.. i cant help you further14:30
zetheroo1disco_stu: have you actually got it working yourself?14:30
disco_stuno.. no gps14:31
Guysoft42oh , another silly question - is there a way to left click in places lice vnc?14:31
disco_stui dont use mapper that much14:32
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zetheroo1disco_stu: ok ...14:35
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Stskeepslo meiz15:32
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Meizirkkihi15:33
Meizirkkijust installed mer and x wont start15:33
Meizirkkiwait, i'll give you pastebin15:34
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Meizirkkihttp://pastebin.com/d43f7add415:34
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Stskeepsln -s /dev/fb /dev/fb0 :P15:35
Meizirkki:)15:36
Meizirkkii forgot this time15:36
* Stskeeps is setting up a build beagleboard15:36
Stskeeps(http://beagleboard.org/)15:36
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johnxother way around though: ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb :)15:37
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Meizirkki=P15:37
Stskeepsah, yeah15:37
Stskeeps:P15:37
johnxStskeeps, awesome! so awesome. :D (re: the beagleboard)15:37
Stskeepsjohnx: we can just switch DEFAULT_DEVICE in omapfb btw :P15:38
Stskeepsit's a #define15:38
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Stskeepsand establish some kind of branch of the git tree of the driver15:39
suihkulokkior you could fix udev =)15:40
aquatixooh, maemo.org is a lot faster!15:40
aquatixany idea why the small thumbs in the software section consist of larger physical images though?15:40
Stskeepssuihkulokki: i've yet to see a /dev/fb, but that's just me not having enough fb devices :P15:41
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X-Fadeaquatix: Because we don't have smaller versions.15:41
suihkulokkiit seems some other distros have it15:41
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aquatixX-Fade: heh, fair enough :)15:41
aquatixjust wondered, as it makes for longer loading times15:42
X-Fadeaquatix: Yeah, we need to see if we can create the smaller sizes too. Although I'd wait until the new website design is more clear.15:42
aquatixah :)15:43
aquatixsounds good15:43
X-FadeAs maybe we won't need the small ones. Or anoter size.15:43
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aquatixyeah, i figure15:44
aquatixi just noticed and dumped it here15:44
aquatixbut now i'm curious to the new design :)15:44
X-Fadeaquatix: Well, we will have a separate webserver serving all static files soon. So they will even be served faster.15:45
X-FadeAnd you can still influence the new design as there is still a lot of discussion going on for that :)15:45
aquatixyay15:46
aquatixhere or on a forum?15:46
* aquatix votes for green on black ;)15:46
Stskeepsjohnx: think i'm making several build types, distcc ones too, etc15:46
MeizirkkiHoe to save file in vi text editor?15:47
Stskeeps:wq15:47
Veggenor, omit the q if you want to continue editing.15:47
X-Fadeaquatix: -community and https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org#Maemo.org_Homepage_refresh15:49
X-Fadeaquatix: See also design drafts.15:49
aquatixcheck, thanks15:50
aquatixgreat drafts!15:50
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* aquatix rather likes http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-variation_of_HOME_03_MOD.png15:51
aquatixanyways, back to work15:52
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Meiz_n810Offical arm-ubuntu team is close to get gnome-desktop working16:03
Stskeepsi guess i should follow #u-a too16:03
Meiz_n810:)16:03
ron1nis a tablet distro in ubuntu's roadmap?16:03
Stskeepsno clue16:04
Stskeepsdon't think so16:04
ron1nhmm16:04
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Stskeepsi think maemo will accelerate past it before that really16:04
johnxfor the nokia n8x0? I'd guess "no" but that's part of my pessimism talking16:04
Stskeepsor mer, depending on perspective16:04
Meiz_n810they promised to build omap kernel... :)16:04
ron1nthey do have a MID project, that with an arm port16:05
johnxa *lot* of things use OMAPs :P16:05
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah, but useless for tablets probably :P16:05
Meiz_n810okay16:05
ron1nand an omap kernel, this is looking nice and easy16:05
Stskeepsron1n: yeah, but i doubt the power conservation is so good..16:05
Stskeeps:P16:05
ron1nheh16:05
ron1nthats very true16:05
johnxeh, they'll have to rework power consumption stuff unless this "always-on" idea was just a fad16:05
Stskeepsalways-on-when-battery-works16:06
ron1ner suspend to disk16:06
johnxI'm sure ARM isn't paying them to screw around16:06
ron1ni mean, we're talking flash here lol16:06
Stskeepsron1n: life isn't always that easy :P16:06
johnxsuspend to flash would be a lot slower than suspend to disk actually16:06
Stskeepssuspend to ram is better isnt it?16:07
ron1njohnx, suspending to a flash swapfile is slower than suspending to a spinning disk?16:07
johnxdefinitely, but it's still not the same as always on16:07
ron1nStskeeps, its faster, but still requires power16:07
johnxron1n, suspending to slow built in flash with a compressed filesystem is slower than suspending to a typical laptop drive16:07
ron1nI see16:07
johnxsuspend to RAM is a fair trade off most of the time16:07
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johnxbut it's not the same thing as being "always on, always connected"16:08
ron1ndo we have suspend to ram support in deblet?16:08
ccookejohnx: I'd have agreed with that... until I tried the N810.16:09
johnxccooke, hmm?16:09
ron1n"always on, always connected" is why I have a desktop =P, a tablet is simply an extension to that in my experience16:10
Stskeepsron1n: we'll definately have it in Mer..16:10
Stskeeps:P16:10
ron1nawesome =]16:10
johnxron1n, you're not the tarket market then I bet :)16:10
* Stskeeps ponders where he has enough space to store a repository for Mer16:10
ccookejohnx: "< johnx> suspend to RAM is a fair trade off most of the time" - the next line hadn't arrived here yet16:10
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johnxit's a fair trade off, but it's not really optimal, I agree16:11
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* ron1n has become quite reliant on suspend2 for quick book times on x8616:31
ron1nboot* =P16:31
johnxI just leave all my stuff on16:31
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Karma better now?16:35
StskeepsMeiz_n810: so control panel worked without hitch in jaunty? that's weird16:37
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* aquatix should fix suspending etc on his debian laptop16:38
aquatixotoh, it boots quite quickly16:38
johnxheh...my only laptop is a P4 with ~10 minutes of battery life on a good day. all the rest of my mobile stuff is ARM :)16:38
ron1njohnx, not an option with my lust for old school tablets and gadgets on ebay =P16:38
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aquatixjohnx: my laptop is constantly running from DC here16:39
aquatixas i'm at work anyway16:39
Meiz_n810Stskeeps, i meant the midoris "Prefrences" window fits into screen (so it is possible to click Close. With mojos midori, i was unable to save settings)16:39
Stskeepsah16:39
johnxhmm, I guess I do leave my zaurus in suspended to RAM most of the time16:40
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johnxi'm not making any progress on h-i-m. I'm giving it a break for a day and I'll try python-hildon instead16:41
Stskeepsalright16:41
Stskeepsi'm setting up repos and build box atm16:41
johnxif anyone else wants to step in I will *not* be offended :)16:41
Stskeepsas we'll be getting closer to a reset to get things right16:41
johnxhopefully for the most part we can just re-apply our own diffs to get moving16:42
Stskeepsyeah16:42
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Stskeepsand we'll triple build for all 4-5 targets, so16:43
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Stskeepsso we easily can build images16:43
johnxmmm...images :)16:43
johnxmmm...someone else's machine doing the building :)16:44
Stskeepshehe16:44
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b1ackdeathhas any one had trouble install Debian chroot tubro on there internal flash?16:54
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matrx <Clint> also i have t-bone for tonight17:02
matrxmisfire17:02
* aquatix <- instahungry17:03
johnxmisfiring t-bone? I hear it's a problem17:03
aquatixyeah, there was a recall17:03
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johnxyou just have to check the fuel mixture and spark timing17:04
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matrxi just did a reflash to the latest diablo, now i can't clock to 400mhz anymore even though it's listed as an available freq in sysfs, any insight?17:12
mgedmindo you have any mp3 playing?17:13
X-Fadematrx: Something using the dsp?17:13
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lardman~lart Windows device drivers17:22
* infobot shoots Windows device drivers in his sleep17:22
matrxhrmm... nothing should be playing when i try17:23
matrxi wonder if something has the device open17:24
matrxthis didn't happen before the most recent diablo updates17:24
lardmanmatrx: which governor are you using?17:24
matrxtried them all17:25
lardmanso on performance, for example, it's not at 400MHz?17:25
matrxi used to be able to use the default ondemand at set max_freq to 40000017:25
matrxbut performance is locked at 330000 max/min17:25
lardmaninteresting, does sound like dvfs lock caused by the dsp17:26
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lardmanrun "dspdld -p" from the command line somewhere (in another window to your cpufreq stuff as it won't return)17:26
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matrxit killed off 3 pids, failed to open /lib/dsp/dsp_dld.conf, and returned17:28
matrxwhich i'm guessing isn't expected behavior17:28
lardmanah yeah, sorry you need to symlink from /lib/dsp/dsp_dldavs.conf to  /lib/dsp/dsp_dld.conf17:28
lardmanfirst name might be slightly wrong, can't remember off the top of my head17:29
lardmandsp_dld_avs.conf probably17:29
matrxbut you're right, as whatever it killed seems to have resumed the clocking to 400mhz17:29
lardmanthen run dspdld -p again17:29
lardmanwell if you have the loader open you should be able to see what was is started running17:29
lardmanthen again perhaps some task just got stuck17:29
qwerty12lardman, hi, does the sysfs patch to change op_mode on the fly work for you? I echoed 0 to op_active and pybattery still says it's running at 330. It's tempting to just edit n800-board-dvfs.c and recompile the kernel and be done with it.17:30
lardmanwith that symlink in place, issuing dspdld (no -p) will restart the dsp and reload the conf files, etc.17:30
lardmanqwerty12: can't change op_mode directly I don't think, need to echo into some sysfs entry (something with dsp in the name)17:31
qwerty12lardman, I'm talking about the patch that lets you do that :)17:31
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lardmanecho 1 > /sys/power/op_dsp17:33
lardmanecho 0 even17:33
matrxi don't see anything new opening on the dsp_dld session, but it seems to cleared whatever was pegging the scaler17:34
qwerty12Thanks lardman17:34
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lardmanmatrx: yeah, fair enough, just make sure you re-reun dsp_dld when you quit out of the non-daemonised form17:34
lardmanqwerty12: np17:34
lardmans/dspdld/dsp_dld  for all of the above ;)17:35
matrxi figured :)17:36
matrxi'm going to reboot and see what happens17:36
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X-FadeInteresting: http://cia.vc/stats/project/maemo/.message/fb30e617:42
matrxlardman: should conf be symlinked by default?17:42
matrxhaving done that, the problem seems to have resolved itself on subsequent reboots17:42
matrxand strangley now 400mhz is the default max_freq for the ondemand gov17:43
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lardmanmatrx: no, it needn't be symlinked, but if not you need to add another switch + the path to the conf file17:48
lardmanmatrx: this is handled correctly by the init scripts and dmse, just easier to symlink if you need to restart it often to avoid typing17:49
lardmans/dmse/dsme17:49
matrxso it's just chance that this reboot worked as expected?17:50
lardmanwell not chance, it's just the fact you restarted the DSP17:50
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lardmanhad you rebooted the entire machine before and it not fixed the issue>17:51
lardman?17:51
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matrxi had in fact17:51
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matrxit's actually why i reflashed diablo17:51
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lardmanoh, wierd then17:51
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lardmanwell it may re-occur then, restarting the dsp is not something different to what happens when you restart the machine, and the symlink should make no odds whatsoever17:52
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matrxso oh well18:00
lardmanmight it have been something you installed?18:01
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matrxlardman- i'll just move on and pretend i was crazy unless it starts happening again18:07
lardmanbest plan :)18:07
aquatixthat's not that hard anyway ;)18:07
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mgedmin"sapwood [...] may well be the most advanced Gtk pixmap engine right now" -- http://dborg.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/creating-themes/18:50
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* lcuk bangs head on desk multiple times19:03
RST38hreMoo19:03
* RST38h supplies lcuk with a few silicate bricks19:04
* lcuk prefers to nuzzle in silicone19:04
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RST38hlcuk: whazzup with liqbase btw?19:06
johnxmgedmin, nevermind the fact that it can be a huge PITA :/19:07
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lcukRST38h, what do you mean whazzup?19:09
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RST38hlcuk: any new features coming? release quality ui? icons?19:13
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lcuktalk soon19:14
RST38hevil, keeping everybody in suspense like that19:16
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lcukRST38h, not evil, just have customer vnc session and ive booted everyone out of their database and i need to finish this first :P19:22
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pupnikhoohoo19:22
RST38hlcuk: drop *; commit4 done19:23
RST38hpupnik ehlo19:23
pupnikgood day RST38h19:24
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pupnikyou're hanging out in #maemo a lot lately RST38h :)19:24
pupniki'm using my dentist's internet atm... (heh)19:25
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GeneralAntillesHey, pupnik.19:27
RST38hpupnik: my screen is19:27
RST38hlcuk: well at least they will finally haul him off and you wont hear the screams19:28
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pupnikhey19:31
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mimshitahello, i see to have a problem with gtkhtml, i can find the correct repos for that group of packages19:52
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mimshitacan anyone help me, thanks19:57
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johnxI think it's installed on the tablet to start with. do you need the dev files for it?19:58
johnxs/dev files/headers/19:58
infobotjohnx meant: I think it's installed on the tablet to start with. do you need the headers for it?19:58
mimshitai'm using the cross platform19:59
mimshitamaemo armel19:59
mimshitato compile the source code first19:59
johnxwell the packages are here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/g/gtkhtml/20:00
mimshitabut maybe i'm doing it wrong...this step should be on the tablet20:00
mimshitahumm...20:00
johnxyou compile in scratchbox, but I think it should already have gtkhtml installed20:01
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mimshitai thought so too, but the reality is whrn compiling my application it gives an error because of the missing package20:02
johnxtry this: apt-cache policy gtkhtml-dev20:03
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johnxdoes it say that gtkhtml-dev is installed?20:03
mimshitayes20:06
mimshitagtkhtml-dev:20:06
mimshita  Installed: 3.13.91-3osso1520:06
johnxthen the problem is likely that your application isn't finding it correctly20:06
mimshitamaybe it is trying for an older version...20:07
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Khertan_n810Hello !20:08
johnxhi Khertan_n81020:08
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Khertan_n810treeview and preferences gui are a real pain to do !20:09
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mimshitathis has been a real pain just from install20:10
mimshitai started to install maemo 4.1 then updated to 4.1.1 and always had lots of problems with the repos20:11
johnxwell the problems with repos should be over20:11
johnxthe servers were being shuffled around recently20:11
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mimshitagood:)20:12
mimshitacan one of you tell me a url with a nice howto install maemo, I found an txt, that had all the steps20:12
Stskeepsjohnx: now with hasty-armv5el{-vfp}, hasty-armv6-vfp, jaunty-armel, jaunty-i386 build rootstraps :P20:13
mimshitabut i always have the feelling that not all was installed20:13
johnxmimshita, why do you think that?20:13
johnxStskeeps, great. see the latest screenshot?20:13
Stskeepsjohnx: nop?20:14
johnxit actually doesn't look b0rken :)20:14
johnxhttp://tinyurl.com/6nk2ow20:14
Stskeepsoh that's quite neat20:14
Stskeeps:)20:14
johnxthat's the most important use of my tablet so it had to be first...now I just need to be able to enter text :)20:14
GeneralAntillesOoh, nice, johnx.20:15
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mimshitafor example this, is is strange that the install file does not recognize or is able to find the lib on compilation, unless...20:15
johnxfor most basic python apps it should really just be some dependency tweaking :)20:15
Stskeepsjohnx: there's always the home-applets maybe20:16
Stskeepshome-ip etc20:16
johnxmimshita, that's a normal part of cross compiling I think20:16
Stskeepsthey're python so20:16
johnxah, I could do python-desktop next I guess20:16
Khertan_n810homeip20:16
Khertan_n810no -20:16
mimshitado you know the latest version of libgtkhtml?20:16
mimshitaprobably:), i'm kinda new to the process20:16
Stskeepsmimshita: libgtkhtml is a bit special on tablet20:17
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Khertan_n810if special == slow:20:18
Khertan_n810  return True20:18
Khertan_n810johnx: what that's screenshots ?20:18
johnxquicknote running in Mer (formerly maemo-reconstructed)20:19
johnxinfobot, mer is the distribution formerly known as Maemo Reconsctructed20:19
infobotokay, johnx20:19
Khertan_n810maemo-reconstructed ... i still doesn t understand what this mean ... but20:19
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johnxit's Nokia's maemo UI parts on to of a minimal ubuntu base20:20
Meiz_n810johnx: try to add usb-host command to rc.local, and then you can use usb keyboard...20:20
Khertan_n810the app look like interested infact ...20:20
johnxwell, yeah, that's the easy way out, but it's cheating :P20:20
Khertan_n810simple ...20:20
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mimshitaI see...nowadays it's constantly running against the clock, and each error is a head against the wall:)20:20
Khertan_n810Does it s available for a 'normal' maemo os ?20:20
johnxKhertan_n810, I highly recommend it. It shares a lot in common with the PalmOS Memo app20:21
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Khertan_n810yep this look like20:21
Khertan_n810i ve planned to do something like that20:21
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Khertan_n810but don t have the time to write it20:21
johnxif you want it: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/quicknote/20:21
zakkkmmhow come i cant install rtcomm? it has missing dependencies20:22
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zakkkmm( diablo , n800 )20:22
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zakkkmmi added the colla... repository20:22
zakkkmmand added several with it.20:22
johnxdid you follow all the instructions?20:22
zakkkmmjohnx: talking to me?20:23
johnxyes20:23
zakkkmmtheres instructions?20:23
Meiz_n810johnx: did you start quicknote from menu?20:23
johnxMeiz_n810, I did20:23
zakkkmmon my old n770, it just required me to click install ;p20:23
Meiz_n810if i start something from menu, window-decorations diappear immediately20:24
johnxzakkkmm, http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/20:24
johnxMeiz_n810, that's odd20:25
Meiz_n810starting from telnet does not brake window decorations20:25
Khertan_n810johnx: an other repository ? not in extras ?20:25
zakkkmmoh cool, thanks johnx20:25
johnxKhertan_n810, extras-devel20:25
Khertan_n810hum... strange that application manager ask for adding repository20:26
johnxMeiz_n810, does it crash matchbox or something?20:26
Khertan_n810as i ve already it20:26
johnxthey might have the title of extras devel different?20:26
johnxI wonder if that would cause it...20:26
zakkkmmwhat does red pill actually do?20:26
johnxit changes which packages are allowed to be installed20:26
Khertan_n810... it stupid if this is only that20:26
zakkkmmso its like "super" devel?20:27
timelessit gives you ~8 more options20:27
GeneralAntilles~red-pill20:27
GeneralAntilleszakkkmm, evil things20:27
Meiz_n810johnx: menu and advanceb-bklight still appear in the right place, but the app i start from menu appears in top corner...20:27
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode20:27
GeneralAntilles~red-pill is https://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode20:27
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles20:27
zakkkmmim on my highschool pc20:27
Khertan_n810do you have some ui freeze while many apps are open on maemo20:29
Khertan_n810?20:29
zakkkmmkhertan_n810: me?20:30
johnxKhertan_n810, probably a memory shortage?20:30
Khertan_n810i ve about three web page, 12 xterm, 2 python app, file manager, and music player running20:30
Khertan_n810johnx : maybe20:30
johnxdefinitely a memory shortage20:30
Khertan_n810:)20:30
johnxI'm sure lots of stuff is paged out20:30
zakkkmmwow20:30
Khertan_n810and xchat :)20:31
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johnxsurprised you haven't dropped from IRC actually20:31
Khertan_n810 19:31:16 up 6 days, 39 min, load average: 2.50, 3.72, 2.5520:31
zakkkmmxchat is nice :)20:31
zakkkmm;o20:31
Khertan_n810nope xchat work well20:31
zakkkmm3.72 ... that must be laggy :P20:31
Khertan_n810the only drop i get is from a phone data connection lost20:32
Khertan_n810not really laagy in fact20:32
Khertan_n810just get sometime a 5s lag20:32
* zakkkmm calls that laggy20:32
Khertan_n810specially when i make a large svn commit20:32
zakkkmmon the nokia? :p20:32
zakkkmmyou use svn on the nokia? :P20:33
Khertan_n810yep but this 5s appear sometime ... i ll say with 15 min of interval20:33
Khertan_n810yep i use svn on the tablet20:33
zakkkmmoh20:33
Khertan_n810as  i code on the tablet :)20:33
zakkkmmanyone know a good free sip, for the nokia?20:33
GeneralAntilleszakkkmm, Khertan_n810 is what we in the biz like to call a "crazy person". ;)20:34
Khertan_n810the most laggy thing is running glade one the tablet20:34
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zakkkmmnever heard of glade ;p20:34
zakkkmmcoding on the nokia just sounds odd ;p20:34
Khertan_n810GeneralAntilles: not a crazy personn just someone optimizing time20:34
thopiekaraaah a little question... if i view my svn-"repo" of maemo-garage with eclipse it don't show any folders...20:34
zakkkmmi guess the n810 has a keyboard but yeah20:35
Khertan_n810yep but before n810 i code with an n80020:35
Khertan_n810:)20:35
thopiekarbut when i'm using my google.code's svn i works fine20:35
johnxhence "crazy person"20:35
Khertan_n810and before on my palm directly with an onboard compiler20:35
Khertan_n810lol20:35
johnxupdate on h-i-m: sapwood is the one triggering the X error20:36
Khertan_n810who is responsible of the icon for quicknote ?20:36
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johnxI have no idea20:36
johnxthere's a homepage for it listed on the page on maemo.org/downloads though20:36
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zakkkmmhow would irc work in rtcomm?20:37
Stskeepsjohnx: happens with both Xomap and xorg?20:37
zakkkmmdoes it show channels as ppl ?20:37
johnxI can't get that part to work in Xomap :/20:37
johnxI guess that should be my next real test20:37
Stskeepsit crashes in Xomap too or what do you mean? :P20:37
Stskeepsoh20:37
Stskeepsright20:37
Stskeepstslib was it?20:37
johnxin Xorg, the keyboard starts to draw then crashes20:38
johnxin Xomap, it won't try to pop up the keyboard20:38
zakkkmmanyone know a good SIP, for nokia?20:38
johnxI'll test again as I'm out of good ideas20:38
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mimshitasofia-sip!20:38
Stskeepsah20:39
GeneralAntilleszakkkmm, channels are chat rooms.20:39
GeneralAntillesIt sucks in comparison to XChat.20:39
Khertan_n810hum quicknote ui is a bit strange20:39
johnxKhertan_n810, you get used to it. it has the right workflow at least: open, right note, close, never worry about saving20:39
Khertan_n810yep ... don t worry about saving is ok20:40
johnxright -> write of course20:40
Khertan_n810what is strange is 'new note' in the list ... as their is an add button20:40
johnxmer20:41
zakkkmmwhy does MSN ( haze ) give network error?20:41
Khertan_n810mer what ?20:41
Khertan_n810don t understanf20:41
Khertan_n810s/understanf/understand20:41
johnxat myself for for right/write20:41
* Stskeeps passes johnx some coffee20:42
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johnxStskeeps, heh...not if I want to sleep at anything resembling a normal time...lost cause already huh?20:42
Stskeepsyeah20:42
Stskeeps:P20:42
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zakkkmmhow come i recieve network error with msn and irc?20:42
zakkkmmaim connects okay though20:43
Stskeepsjohnx: i'm pondering if the beagleboard at my work is on fire or something.. i'm giving it quite a beating20:43
johnxmy zaurii haven't died yet, neither has my n80020:44
johnxyour beagle will be fine20:44
Stskeepshehe20:45
zakkkmmhow come it shows irc connected, but it didnt join this chatroom nor did it appear in "online"20:45
johnxbecause it's a beta20:46
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Khertan_n810arring at train station20:52
Khertan_n810bye20:52
Khertan_n810arriving20:52
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Pavlovhrmp20:54
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, hehe, yes, that's better. ;)20:56
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qwerty12_N800"I downloaded this app called "Hello World App" on my nokia n800 then i realized it didn't do much,"21:11
GeneralAntillesAhaha21:11
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, you should patch it to ask for a name and say "Hello World, and $NAME!" :P21:12
GeneralAntillesThen, maybe, he'll be satisfied.21:12
qwerty12_N800lol21:13
lcukwhat is the modern equivalent of "10 print 'hello world' : 20 goto 10"21:14
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ferencs got karma feeding a dummy user. http://maemo.org/profile/view/test_user/ http://maemo.org/profile/view/test/ :D21:14
qwerty12_N800All that karma should be mine!21:15
GeneralAntilleslcuk, well, mine would be: 1. Offer lcuk bacon for coding a Hello World app. 2. lcuk codes Hello World app. 3. The bacon is a lie.21:15
lcukhaha, but if the bacon is a lie wont the bpig be angry21:15
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johnxwhile true ; do echo oh hai there ; done21:20
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johnxeven updated the message to be understandable by today's youth21:21
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Stskeepsjohnx: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/m-r/trunk/installer/apt.preferences , would an extra section with a=jaunty work too?21:22
qwerty12_N800s/oh hai there/wag121:22
johnxStskeeps, sure21:22
Stskeepswith same pin priority?21:23
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* johnx thinks through all the implications21:24
GeneralAntillesAny comments on this? https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints21:24
lcukjohnx:21:24
lcuk'while' is not recognized as an internal or external command,21:24
lcukoperable program or batch file.21:24
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: what are you planning to do with jaunty?21:24
johnxlcuk, your shell is wrong :)21:24
disco_stuhis shell is ill21:25
StskeepsMeiz_n810: we're compiling for a bunch of different bases to cover our bases21:25
johnxStskeeps, yes, as long as mojo guys have been good and haven't modified any packages without bumping the version number21:25
Meiz_n810ok21:25
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johnxbut really, you probably want to track one distro explicitly if you want to maintain some kind of sanity21:26
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johnxjaunty should always be higher or equal...but I don't like leaving it to that21:26
disco_stujohnx, do you know an easy way to change wlan txpower21:27
johnxyou can reduce it in the connectivity settings21:27
johnxbut it won't help you21:27
disco_stuiwconfig doesnt work21:27
johnxcorrect21:27
disco_stujohnx, in that dialog it takes a lot21:28
disco_stuto actually get there21:28
johnxyes, it does21:28
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johnxbut also "it won't help you"21:28
johnxit will not affect battery life21:28
johnxit's only to comply with regulations in certain countries21:29
disco_stujohnx, it does reduce battery consumption21:30
johnxno it doesn't according to the Nokia engineers21:30
johnxI'll dig up the quote if you need me to21:30
disco_stuits alright21:31
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disco_stui've experinced how it improves range21:32
disco_stutoo bad it doesnt with battery life21:33
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johnxmost of the time the card is idle so the radio is off21:33
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disco_stuyes21:34
johnxit's possible that if you were right next to the access point, uploading constantly it might have some effect21:34
johnxbut if you set it to the lower value it will just force the card to retransmit all the time and waste power21:34
disco_stua problem i found is that the n800 wont disassociate from aps when intended to do so21:35
johnxjust switch to offline mode21:35
disco_stuthe card goes offline21:36
disco_stubut the ap still thinks she is there21:36
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johnxthat's by definition the AP's problem21:36
disco_stuno21:37
disco_stuit only happens with n80021:37
disco_stunor with palms, notebooks21:38
johnxis it a stale dhcp lease? is it an entry in the ARP table? lots of possibilities21:39
johnxalso: does it cause any problem?21:39
johnxanyways, I'm off to bed, so good luck with your AP21:39
Stskeepsnight johnx21:39
disco_stuthe assoc list has nothing to do with dhcp21:40
disco_stunor arp cache21:40
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disco_stuand it doesnt cause problems, just upsets me21:41
disco_stujohnx, n821:41
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: where should i create symbolic link to get flash work in epiphany-webkit? (using jaunty)21:44
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GeneralAntillesdisco_stu, then stop looking at the list. ;)21:52
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: lol21:53
disco_stuthe thing is that i had an script running in my accespoint wich blinks some leds, just to know if i have clientes connected21:53
StskeepsMeiz_n810: er.. look in the source for the package i guess21:53
disco_stuand my n800 is spoiling int21:53
disco_stus/int/it/21:54
infobotdisco_stu meant: and my n800 is spoiling it21:54
Meiz_n810ok21:54
GeneralAntillesShouldn't your N800 be connected when you're home, anyway?21:54
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i use it a lot at home21:54
disco_stu:P21:55
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, that took, what, 3 days for the community to do what Nokia couldn't manage in 8 months?21:55
GeneralAntillesAwesome.21:55
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, I know. It's pretty effing pathetic in my opinion.21:56
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, I think it's about time to jettison dependence on Nokia.21:56
qwerty12_N800For sure. :)21:57
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GeneralAntillesAlways leverage the strengths of the resources available to you.21:58
GeneralAntillesFast turnaround and sane policies are not one of Nokia's strengths.21:58
Mouseyid21:59
Mouseyoops21:59
Mouseytu21:59
Mouseyoops, wrong channel21:59
RST38hGeneral: Nokia's handling of Maemo is better than 90% other companies would do though22:00
RST38hGeneral: Examples: Motorola's developer support, Adobe's "open sourced" flash player, Sun's "open sourced" MIDP2 lacking crucial sourcecode pieces22:01
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RST38hGoogle's....mmm...whatever they call Android nowadays22:02
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, sure, but I don't do business with those other companies.22:02
RST38hLuckily for you :)22:02
RST38hPretty much the closest to Nokia is Microsoft with WinMobile22:02
GeneralAntillesNo reason not to expect better simply because other companies do a lot worse.22:03
RST38hSupport-wise. But I would rather eat toilet paper than use WinMobile...22:03
RST38hGeneral: Just saying that Nokia is trying.22:03
Stskeepstoliet paper, you say..22:03
qwerty12_N800RST38h, winmo here over uiq (and i like symbian)22:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, and I'd be the first to say so. ;)22:04
RST38hGeneral: like a dinosaur trying to bite off a dandelion, indeed, but trying22:04
RST38hqwerty: UIQ wasn't that bad really. Buggy implementations, but not as fundamentally broken as WinMobile22:04
qwerty12_N800RST38h, Serious lack of programs for it. Even uiq hacking is small compared to s60 hackers (and sony ericsson enea ose based phones have a shitton of hackers)22:06
RST38hqwerty: That's different from being fuckied up as a platform22:07
RST38hqwerty: Has to deal with Sony ericsson not marketing UIQ phones at all22:08
RST38hok, they tried with P1 in Moscow and a lot of people still have P1s here22:08
qwerty12_N800The results of Sony Ericsson's inactions still makes me want to go with WinMo instead :)22:11
RST38hOh, do try, if you really have to22:11
RST38hJust don't buy WinMo phone, borrow it for a week22:11
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, when are you gonna put together a wifi page so we can stop staring at this same retarded thread over and over and over again. . . . http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=243217#post24321722:14
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qwerty12_N800Fine, but I may need help with tables in the wiki :P22:16
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GeneralAntillesWoot!22:18
GeneralAntillesJust get the info in there, I'll make it look pretty.22:18
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* qwerty12_N800 dislikes that applet actually. It seems to have an inability with restoring disabled services back in the correct order (browserd is a nice example, but I guess it's because the applet uses update-rc.d)22:19
qwerty12_N800:)22:19
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=243215&postcount=4 - evidently not a sarcasm fan :p22:22
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GeneralAntillesHa22:24
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RST38hGeneral: Maybe making a list of all services running on the tablet with explanations of what each service does is in order?22:26
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RST38hlike WinNT service administration list does (it has got explanations for each service)22:26
GeneralAntillesRST38h, qwerty12 seems to be on it.22:26
dougt_weird question -- is there a way to remove the battery, have the device plugged in, and have it work.  mozilla is setting up a testing lab and wants to be able to hard reboot this in case of an error (by automatically removing power).22:26
qwerty12_N800RST38h, that's what i've been commissioned for :p. i'll start a draft in the morning (typing that draft on the n800 would kill me first)22:27
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GeneralAntillesdougt_, sadly, no.22:28
GeneralAntillesdougt_, it's not wired for that22:28
RST38hqwerty, General: Just give me a wiki page address and I will make a table there22:28
RST38hwith all the currently running services22:28
RST38hwe can fill in explanations later22:29
GeneralAntillesPartially because the tablets can actually draw more power than the wallchargers can provide.22:29
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dougt_GeneralAntilles: so, what happens when the battery is at zero and that happens?22:32
qwerty12_N800RST38h, I haven't started anything yet (and I'm not good with titles either :))22:32
disco_studougt_: what could happen22:32
GeneralAntillesdougt_, that situation doesn't really exist.22:32
GeneralAntillesThe battery is never truly at zero22:32
RST38hok, lemme see if I can start it22:33
GeneralAntillesThe tablet would turn itself off if the battery level is at critical, though (30% or so)22:33
GeneralAntillesThanks, RST38h! :)22:33
dougt_one more bad question, any router suggestions to work well with the n810s?  PSM has been killing me.  I am using a airport extreme and see frequent router reboots22:34
GeneralAntillesdougt_, I've had no issue with DD-WRT and Tomato stuff.22:34
dougt_got a link?22:35
GeneralAntillesI'd recommend the Buffalo WHR-G125, but they're been locked out of sale in the US thanks to some idiotic patent issues.22:35
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GeneralAntillesWRT-54GL is the old standby22:35
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GeneralAntillesdougt_, http://www.polarcloud.com/tomatofaq#what_will_this_run_on22:36
GeneralAntillesTomato is a lighter, faster, more open-source friendly replacement for DD-WRT22:36
RST38hGeneral: Hwo do I create a new page?22:38
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RST38hFound it22:38
GeneralAntillesRST38h, just type in the title22:38
* qwerty12_N800 would love it if his netgear ran dd-wrt. I spend my time cross compiling the stuff I want and then updating the code i use to glue <whatever> to nvram :\ 22:38
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GeneralAntillesDD-WRT looks good in comparison to default firmwares22:38
GeneralAntillesbut it's an ugly piece of shit in comparison to Tomato22:39
GeneralAntillesand DD-WRT pretty much hates open source.22:39
Veggenuhm...openwrt?22:39
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: pop quiz, cflags for armv5el, armv5el-vfp, and armv6-vfp? :P22:39
qwerty12_N800thomson routers should be avoided like the plague if you like custom firmwares.22:40
GeneralAntillesVeggen, generally less newbie-friendly, I guess.22:40
GeneralAntillesBut also a good option.22:40
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, i can get you armv6-vfp flags, the others, not a chance :p22:40
Stskeepsk22:40
* Stskeeps is setting up the builder atm so22:41
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, if by armv5, we mean 770, 770 doesn't have a fp22:41
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Stskeepsmm22:42
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GeneralAntillesdougt_, if they want to be a little more dirty, they could probably wire up power directly to the battery pads.22:44
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, "-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -mcpu=arm1136jf-s -mtune=arm1136jf-s"22:44
dougt_yeah, that is what I am thinking22:44
dougt_GeneralAntilles: do you know the specs?22:44
dougt_(i guess, i could just look at the battery.22:45
dougt_)22:45
GeneralAntillesdougt_, 3.7v 1500mAh22:45
dougt_please tell me you have one in front of you.22:45
GeneralAntillesWell, um, technically yes.22:45
GeneralAntillesBut I'm not looking at it. :P22:46
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MouseyI AM NOW HOLDING MY NEW SANDISK 16GB *MICROSD* CARD!22:58
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Mouseyhappiest n810 evar, on the brink of happinesshood!22:59
GeneralAntillesCongratulations, you're now exactly where N800 owners were 8 months ago. :P22:59
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MouseyGeneralAntilles, ha ha22:59
* qwerty12_N800 gets the ski mask. Mousey's happiness will not be for long muhahahaha22:59
Mouseywell if i had a REAL SD slot, instead of this miniscule blahblah tinyslotnonsense23:01
RST38hGeneral: Beautify at will: http://wiki.maemo.org/Services23:01
Mousey=P23:01
* Mousey clicks23:02
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Mouseyi know the answrs to some of the ???'s!23:03
GeneralAntillesAaah, excellent, RST38h. :D23:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, <nitpick>It's either "Extras" or "maemo.org Extras"</nitpick>23:05
qwerty12_N800RST38h, cool, thanks. brightness-permission is installed by adv-backlight for 770's with fanoush's kernel to let you echo to required sysfs entry to change brightness. n8x0 users have no need of it at all actually (and is disabled by default for n8x0)23:05
qwerty12_N800...echo to required sysfs entry to change brightness ^ as"user"23:05
GeneralAntillesAny other columns that should be added to the table?23:06
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lcukMousey, are you a red dwarf fan?23:07
RST38hGeneral: You fix it, ok? =)23:08
* qwerty12_N800 is willing to add to descriptions & add a new table for daemons that are not on the device by default tommorow. and a "required/essential/willmydeviceblowupifidisablethis" column 23:08
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, it's all cleaned up.23:08
RST38hAnd add the links and the styles too because I am stupid and hate Wiki markup language23:08
RST38hqwerty: I have got those in the same list (like carmand)23:09
Mouseylcuk, not so much, familiar with it, but not a big fan23:09
RST38hqwerty: What the table really needs is idiot-proof descriptions23:09
qwerty12_N800RST38h, i know :). I have the feeling that i will be seeing "zomg, i don't have carmand listed in my services, do i need to reflash"23:10
qwerty12_N800if they aren't separated23:11
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RST38hqwerty: maybe... then you want to separate ones that only run on startup23:12
lcukmousey (and others) i think of this EVERY time i'm holding a memory stick http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DpZiNO2CRtw23:12
lcuk2 minutes 05 for the specific23:13
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RST38hGeneral: I added some descriptions. Check please.23:19
GeneralAntillesWould some "types" be useful?23:19
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, I separated the tables.23:23
RST38hok23:23
RST38hMore descriptions added23:26
RST38hYou want someone from Nokia to add more involved descriptions23:26
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GeneralAntillesI think there are some descriptions in the documentation23:27
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qwerty12_N800maemo-launcher isn't responsible for "Loading..." messages. hildon-desktop produces them when starting an app via dbus23:28
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RST38hwhat is it responsible for then?23:30
qwerty12_N800maemo-launcher precaches some gtk stuff like pango etc. if your application is linked to maemo-launcher, your application can startup quicker23:31
RST38hah23:31
RST38hmaking change23:31
* qwerty12_N800 promises to add detailed descriptions in the morning (must have said it about 3 or 4 times already :)) 23:35
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RST38hok, I am going to go read and hit the bed23:35
RST38hthat page is all yours now23:35
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* Stskeeps is in evil scientist mood today. builder that connects to jaiku23:43
Stskeepsok, mad scientist more closely23:43
RST38h"See, what airplanes are good at is blowing up expensive, visible, identifiable things, to include other airplanes. An aircraft carrier in the open Pacific fits the bill nicely"23:43
RST38hHehe23:43
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RST38h"Never, ever underestimate fun as a driver of military policy."23:51
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Stskeepshttp://merbuilder.jaiku.com/ , hehe23:54
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