IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-11-09

lcukisnt that the same with normal maemo?00:00
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Stskeepstry having an app with a untraditional lib00:01
Stskeepsand porting those libs00:01
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lcukkinda like the inverse of me needing xsp00:02
lcukto use it properly on the desktop i would have to find an alternative pressure library00:02
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Stskeepswith this platform you can have both the power of a netbook distro in your hand and a power-saving mobile system00:03
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Stskeepspft. sleep is overrated00:04
faleI have seen that the next version should be based on qt. is this true?00:05
lcuknext version of what?00:05
lcukbased on, or will support?00:06
lcukcos i thought the platform was based on linux00:07
Stskeepsharmattan will support QT afaik00:07
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Stskeepstoo much info for that guy..00:07
lcukfale failed00:07
* qwerty12_N800 groans :p00:08
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lcukwb fale, you failed00:11
falelcuk: yep, my quassal server failed00:12
falesomeone have responded to my question while my server was crushed?00:12
Stskeepsharmattan will support QT afaik00:12
faleStskeeps: is there a roadmap?00:13
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GAN800fale, support != will be based on.00:15
suihkulokkiapt-get moo00:18
faleGAN800: it will be a step by step thing?00:18
* fale may have read wrong on wikipedia00:20
Stskeepsfale: think it's just providing alternate toolkits that are able to mimic the hildon look00:24
Stskeepsand when you have gtk and qt doing that..00:24
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faleI see00:24
faleI dunno why but I was completed sure that maemo would be translated to qt... maybe because nokia bought trolltech?00:25
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Stskeepswhy change something that works? :P00:26
Stskeepswhen you can have them both co-existing00:26
RST38h"The latest big bug discovered in Android has to be one of the craziest that's shipped with a phone. Basically, Android invisibly interprets every word as a command and executes it with "superuser privileges." If you open up your keyboard and type r-e-b-o-o-t, your G1 will, yep, reboot."00:26
StskeepsRST38h: yeah, saw that earlier00:26
Stskeepsthat is -hillarious-00:27
RST38hAnd we need some rootshell, becomeroot, and other crap00:27
qwerty12_N800stupid retards, can't even lock down the device properly00:27
RST38hStrike of real goonius!00:27
Stskeepstalk about keyboard gestures..00:27
Stskeeps"want to reboot your phone? type it!"00:28
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* RST38h wonders what other interesting things can be typed00:28
Stskeepswhich was how it was found out.00:28
faleStskeeps: that's true too00:28
RST38h"It'll do this with any other command too, so stay away from combinations of rm and rf." <== aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!00:28
disco_stuwhat is that ?00:28
Stskeepsfale: the versatile nature of the tablets is what makes it -really- interesting00:30
Stskeepsyou're not locked down to certain toolkits00:30
RST38h"Heres a workaround I just discovered: Open the keyboard and type these 5 keystrokes: <return>-c-a-t-<return>."00:31
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Stskeepsuntil you do ctrl-d00:31
faleStskeeps: that's true, but for what I have seen... qt are often more easy to use and manage...than I thought that nokia would pass the main code to it00:31
Stskeepsfale: then some things might be used.. think a lot of things are up in the air right now00:32
GAN800There's a non-trivial amount of code to port for zero benefit.00:32
disco_stuthats if for android..00:32
Stskeepsand what GAN said00:32
falesomeone of you have tried maemo on freerunner?00:34
Stskeepsfale: maemo isn't directly easy to port00:35
Stskeepswell, hildon maybe but it's not the same as maemo00:35
Stskeepsyou want the long technical reason or me telling it's not trivial to get something that feels quite like the tablets? :P00:36
Stskeepsand is as well-behaving00:36
Stskeepsand supports same apps as the platform00:36
faleah ok, I see00:36
Stskeepsbut you might be interested in
Stskeeps[.. i should really have gotten into advertising instead of computer science. or pushing drugs.]00:37
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faleStskeeps: xd00:38
Stskeepsthat a smiley? :P00:39
faleStskeeps: yep00:39
faleStskeeps: are you a maemo dev?00:39
Stskeepsnah. not really. i did deblet (debian for the tablets), i'm just a crazy person who's interested in system architecture and noticed some shortcomings in maemo00:40
faleI see00:41
Stskeepsand see some potential in the platform00:41
falemy question is poiting toward this: how much maemo is free as development?00:42
Stskeepscould you rephrase that?00:42
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Stskeepsif you're asking how much of a firmware image is open source,
faleStskeeps: how much a freelance (not a nokia dev) can do in maemo00:45
Stskeepsyou can develop quite a bit for the platform, but develop maemo itself is still to be seen, there's some tasks going on regarding that00:46
faleI see00:46
GAN800Feel free to start patching00:46
faleGAN800: xd00:46
GAN800Some products are more receptive to patches than others.00:46
GAN800Stskeeps, can you hit with the app manager wiki page? :P00:47
faleGAN800: nokia how is with patches?00:47
Stskeeps ?00:48
Stskeepsfale: there's a bugtracker and active devs on it00:48
GAN800the collaborative infrastructure page is probably useful too.00:49
falethx guys00:54
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* GAN800 pokes Stsbot. :p01:02
Stskeeps<cursor blinking>01:03
* Stskeeps adds a bit to the collaboration task01:03
Stskeeps(Talk:Task:something really looks screwy.)01:04
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zakkmHi, i connected to a wifi on my N800 and it connected but nothing internet works01:20
zakkmstrong signal01:20
zakkmifconfig says i got assigned01:21
Stskeepsis there a gateway and is it pingable?01:21
Stskeeps(netstat -rn)01:22
zakkmbcast( gateway i believe? )
zakkmoh wait01:22
Stskeepsnah, that's broadcast :P01:22
Stskeepsis it pingable?01:22
zakkmfor gateway01:22
zakkmuhh ill try01:23
zakkmtrying now01:23
zakkmits pinging01:23
zakkmit used to work like 5 hours ago even ...01:23
zakkmno packet loss from pining, round trip min/avg/max = 2.9/19.9/26.4 ms01:24
Stskeepswell then it's either a DNS issue or the gw won't let you pass01:24
zakkmi can get into router settings01:25
zakkmif i goto the gateway as i site01:25
zakkmit works01:25
zakkmwait i got disconnected, and now its not a choice -.-01:25
zakkmoh nevermind01:26
zakkmim in the dynamic DHCP list01:26
zakkmin router settings.01:26
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zakkmStskeeps: any ideas?01:27
Stskeepsping returns what? :P01:28
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zakkmit doesnt return anything01:28
zakkmin router settings, it doesnt look like anything is blocking my nokia?01:29
zakkm56 data bytes01:30
zakkmonly 1 line01:30
Stskeepsmm, then no ip connection through01:30
Stskeepsroute problem then01:30
zakkmon the nokia though01:30
zakkmin router settings, from nokia01:30
zakkmit shows i got a ip address01:30
zakkmand its the same one from ifconfig01:30
zakkmit worked like 5 hours ago, thats what i dont understand01:31
zakkmi just got assigned a different ip01:31
zakkmStskeeps: are you saying they're not connected to internet, that its just a router sitting there?01:32
zakkmor is it a nokia problem ?01:32
zakkmor a router setting i have to change.01:32
Stskeepsrouter problem, you can ping it fine, but no access beyond it01:34
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cyrus__Anyoe here experienced with kernel programming? I have a fairly simple question. In one of my files I have an include statement (#include <asm/arch/dsp.h> and when compiling it says it can't be found. Simple solution should be, well that file doesn't exist.  However, there is another include #include <asm/arch/mmc.h> which doesn't exist either but when compiling it doesn't complain01:41
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woglinde cyrus__ you are missing the kernel headers01:46
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lcukStskeeps, still awake?02:17
lcuk5 seconds full frame :) time to optimize needs to be realtime ;)
Stskeeps*ponders why his hd is suddenly spinning*02:30
* lcuk is breaking algo down into line spans and making it recursively drop tile sizes and stuff 02:30
hellwolfhow to let the mediaplayer support mp302:30
lcukit does doesnt it?02:30
Stskeepslcuk: ah, fractals :)02:31
Stskeepsi recall typing in a full commodore 128 program for mandelbrot02:31
Stskeepsand let it run over the summer02:31
Stskeepskilled the poor machine, too02:31
lcuki did one on my spectrum, in black and white that same image took 23 hours 35 minutes02:31
lcuki marvelled at it and wanted to zoom in but the generation time was way out of reach02:32
lcuki can do it now in the palm of my hand02:32
Stskeepsamazing how things change02:32
lcukyes, im looking at an image of about the same resolution (256*224) rendering 2fps02:33
lcuk(the 5seconds was for 800*480)02:33
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lcukits going to take cunning to get this working nicely, but i know it can be done: ive seen it done on the amiga02:34
lcukand its something that if we do right will NOT be toppable by the iphone, its down to raw cpu hence its a straight fight02:34
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Stskeepsthis is so true..02:45
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srf21canybody familiar with a way to control the volume on an N800 via an ssh session?05:13
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halleyAnyone put cvs ON their nokia?  apt-cache doesn't see it but maybe I don't have the right repo.06:16
halleyGoogling for it is a bit tough, given how much 'cvs' appears on everything.06:17
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zakkmanyone here know a good cbr(comicbook reader format)  reader?07:47
LinuxCodethere is one in extras07:47
zakkmi tried cbrpages but it takes like 30 seconds to load the next page -.-07:48
LinuxCodedunno if its good07:48
johnxcbrpager was pretty quick for me07:48
zakkmfor me it takes ages07:48
johnxhow big are the scans?07:49
zakkm11mb cbr, 28 "pages"07:49
zakkm396kb jpeg's07:49
johnxhuh. doesn't sound unreasonable07:50
johnxwhy not ask the guy who ported it? there's a thread on itt07:50
zakkmthats what i thought07:50
zakkmwho ported it, do you happen to know off memory?07:51
johnx"bge" on itt07:51
zakkmis there no other cbr reader?07:52
zakkmcan evince play cbr's ?07:52
zakkmis there Comix ?07:52
johnxcomix is there, but it's a lot slower than cbrpager07:52
halleyevince is nice for pdf, but does cbr have more to it?07:54
zakkmcbr = rar file with pics in it07:55
zakkmEvince has an optional package that adds Comic book support.    <--- ?07:55
zakkmaccording to wikipedia07:55
Navibuilt-in support07:55
zakkmEvince is a document viewer for multiple document formats. It currently supports pdf, postscript, djvu, cb, cbr, cbz, tiff and dvi.07:55
zakkmaccording to maemo evince page07:55
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halleyAnyone know what apt repo would have 'cvs'?08:06
zakkmextras-devel my guess.08:06
halleyIf I wanted to turn euro and yen symbols into { } symbols, what's the file that drives that stuff?08:08
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camel_liuhi, everyone08:17
camel_liuI'm installing gstreamer in X86 target, but encounter a problem.08:18
camel_liuI installed newest Gstreamer, and try to install gst-plugins-base, but configure still says: Requested 'gstreamer-0.10 >=' but version of GStreamer is 0.10.1308:19
camel_liuI installed Gstreamer 0.10.21 just now.08:20
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camel_liuAny suggestion?08:21
camel_liuHow can I check which version of Gstreamer is working in my target?08:24
johnxapt-cache policy package-name08:25
johnxthat only works for packages you installed with apt-get or from a .deb08:25
camel_liuI just download source, and configure, make and make install08:27
johnxgetting the package with apt-get should be easier08:28
camel_liujohnx, I installed gstreamer-0.10.21, but when I configure gst-plugins-base-0.10.20, it returns error: Requested 'gstreamer-0.10 >=' but version of GStreamer is 0.10.1308:29
camel_liuWhy it is still old version?08:30
camel_liudoes maemo repo have gstreamer?08:31
johnxwhich packages did you install from source and which package did you install from apt-get08:31
camel_liuall from source.08:31
johnxyes, I think all are available from a maemo repo08:32
johnxif you installed .13 first then .21 you might have some left over parts of .13 still installed08:32
camel_liu.13 is installed by maemo sdk, I think08:34
johnxthat seems right08:34
camel_liuI installed .21 from source just now.08:34
camel_liuFor I need do some ogg theora and vorbis development08:35
johnx.21 is probably installed to /usr/local/lib and .13 is probably installed to /usr/lib08:35
camel_liuwhen I configured .13, I used --prefix=/usr08:35
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johnxthen parts of both are probably installed on top of each other08:36
johnxdo you need .21 for some reason?08:36
camel_liuwhen I install newest gst-plugins-base-0.10.21, it needs gstreamer > 0.10.2008:37
camel_liuoog is in gst-plugins-base08:37
camel_liuwhat do you mean 'on top of each other'?08:38
camel_liuogg vorbis asnd theora is in gst-plugins-base08:38
johnxI mean, since you didn't remove .13 before installing .21 there are probably leftover parts of .13 still installed08:38
camel_liuthen I try remove .13?08:39
johnxyou could do that I guess08:39
camel_liuhow do I remove it without disturb others?08:39
johnxhow do you remove .13 without removing .12?08:40
johnxwell you can't really08:40
camel_liuremove .13 and install .21 again?08:41
camel_liuremove both and install .21 again?08:41
johnxfirst run make uninstall in the gstreamer .21 source directory08:41
johnxthen use apt-get remove to remove .1308:41
johnxthen install .2108:41
camel_liuok, let me try.08:42
camel_liuI always met '302 Found' problem when use 'apt-get update' with maemo repo. So I try to do everything from source manually.08:45
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johnxthat will make things very difficult for you08:50
johnxqwerty12, aha! I have a good test for aufs08:51
qwerty12johnx, sounds good *grin* :)08:51
johnxI'm going to be expanding /tmp online08:52
qwerty12God knows why they use the /tmp from initfs...08:53
johnxwe're stuck with it even in deblet it seems.08:53
johnxthe sooner we're on ohm the better08:53
johnxI think that just saved me a couple hours at least. :D thanks!08:59
qwerty12It worked? /me asks with a hopeful smile :)09:00
johnxmount -t aufs -o br:/ none /tmp09:01
qwerty12Hah, brilliant, thanks!09:01
johnxI don't know if that was sane but it certainly served the purpose of giving me more than 1MB of /tmp for a couple of seconds09:01
johnxand / had a 62MB tmpfs on it09:02
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qwerty12Hrm, xchat 2.8.6 is running nicely on the tablet, just need to fix the settings dialog.09:27
hahlobithelo, when i boot sdcard got permission problem with screen, only root can use screen? but when boot flashdisk user can use screen. does sdcard booting need to useradf -g somegroup?09:30
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camel_liujohnx, I configured gst-plugins-base successfully, but it says at last: configure: *** Plug-ins with dependencies that will NOT be built: ogg, theora, vorbis.09:34
camel_liuwhich are needed by me.09:34
camel_liuhow can I let these be built?09:34
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johnxyou need to use apt-get to install libogg-dev, etc09:36
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Khertan_n810Hi !09:53
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lirihey Khertan10:10
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MikhoI have a C++ question: I'm planning on creating a string object, resizing it to a certain size, taking the C-pointer with c_str() call, const_cast:ing away the constness and using the pointer to read the actual contents of the string from a socket with recv(). Is this safe?10:43
Mikhothe point is that I don't need to create extra copies of the string, which might save some time if the string is huge10:44
Mek'const_casting away the constness' -> not safe10:44
Mekwhat might be safer is just using &str[0]; than you don't have to do ugly const castss10:45
MikhoI'd like to know if there's some internal mechanic in the string class that prevents this kind of trick10:46
Mekwhy? because the c++ standard says so...10:47
Mikhohmm, &str[0] might work too, but isn't the result exactly the same?10:47
Stskeepsjohnx: eh, deblet should do /boot/tmp, not /tmp10:47
Mekin 99% of the cases it will probably work just fine, but it is explicitly forbidden to modify the contents returned by c_str()10:48
MikhoI wouldn't want some standard telling me what'S safe an what not, if I think I have a better idea what'S going on10:48
RST38hMikho: The rule of thumb: The more crap you use the less safe it is10:48
Stskeepsjohnx: - M-R image that boots on tablet10:49
Mikhowell, I guess I might run into problems if the string implementation changes10:49
Stskeepsjohnx: (has deblet rescue menu to turn on console, splash doesnt work)10:50
Mikhobut, why would &str[0] be better then?10:50
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RST38hMikho: Just use char str[whatever-max-size-you-have]11:01
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Mikhoby using gtk with C seems to slowly erode and twist various programming principles...11:02
MeizirkkiStskeeps: i'll download that too ;) What does it have already installed?11:02
RST38hAvoid using gtk.11:03
MikhoRST38h, I don't want to hardcode an upper limit for the string. I think it's a bigger evil than const_casting11:03
RST38hWill your string realistically have an upper limit?11:04
Mikhothen, if I use just char *, I don't get to use the neat C++ string class11:04
Mikhothe string might be a employer name, or a picture file11:04
Mikhoor video11:04
StskeepsMeizirkki: it's my pimped image from last night + x11-utils and xorg omap driver -but it crashes on my tablet-11:05
RST38h"neat C++ string class" -- hehe11:06
RST38hanother lazy stl user11:06
StskeepsMeizirkki: and requires same type of bootmenu item as deblet11:06
RST38hMikho: There is a macro that sets the maximal path length. Define a plain C string of that size11:06
Meizirkkiok, i have.11:06
StskeepsMeizirkki: and hold down "home" button to activate usbnet when you've selected it in boot menu and press enter11:07
Stskeepsand console and such11:07
RST38hMikho: Getting a const pointer from a library of whose internal operation you have no idea about, casting that pointer to non-const, and modifying its contents is NOT safe by any measure11:07
Mikhomaximal path length?11:07
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MikhoI understand the principle, but...11:08
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RST38hMikho: "I am afraid but I would really like to"?11:09
RST38hWell, the answer is "Do as you like but be afraid" :)11:09
Mikhothere doesn't seem to be a good practical reason to follow the principle11:10
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Mikhoprinciples are notorious for not being 100% correct11:10
MikhoI wonder what's the reason c_str() pointer cannot be modified...11:11
StskeepsMeizirkki: you on jaiku?11:11
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jagernothello how do i obtain a graphics context for a window to draw on?11:11
Mikhomaybe it's because deleting or new:ing the pointer or sth might destroy everything11:12
Meizirkkino, no one invited me and request takes forever :(11:13
Mikhook, I'll see if I get troublems with this solution, and be happy but afraid if I don't11:14
StskeepsMeizirkki: msg me an email and i'll invite11:14
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johnxhey Stskeeps :)11:23
johnxI'll install that as soon as gtk is done compiling11:23
johnxthankfully I was able to do the gtk compile on the n800 so things should go a lot quicker vs zaurus11:24
RST38hMikho: It cannot be modified because you cannot tell what it is11:24
Stskeepsjohnx: on jaiku? setting up #reconstructedPOC as a experiment in development, where achievements/proposal changes/experiences/etc are documented11:24
RST38hMikho: It is a point that the completely opaque string class implementation gives to you11:24
RST38hOnce you modify it, your program may work of fail depending on how string class is implemented11:25
* johnx sighs and makes a jaiku account11:25
Stskeepshehe, want an invite cos it seems their main adding system doesn't work?11:25
MikhoI understand that, but the thing is that the opaque class in this case happens to have a function for exposing some of it's internale mechanics11:26
johnxeek, really?11:26
Stskeepsyeah, i stood in queue for a day or so, invite works fine though11:26
Mikhothat is, the C string interface11:26
Mikhoso it's not that opaque11:27
* Stskeeps wonders why is dead again11:27
johnxI heard there was another hardware move11:27
johnxthough try s/http/https/11:28
MikhoI think I can be pretty sure the returned pointer contains the string in question, and is null-terminated11:28
Stskeepsjohnx: same result though11:28
johnxah, ok. then it's the hardware move11:28
Mikhoit's not possible that the returned char* would contain just half of the string, while the other end lies in some other part of memory11:29
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Stskeepsjohnx: saw i managed to squeeze into 107mb flash?11:31
Stskeepstracker, pulseaudio, dash,bash, etc11:32
johnxyup, just now. catching up with the backlog :)11:32
johnxand bluez too11:32
RST38hMikho: [yawning widely] The reason why it exposes that string to you as c_str() is for compatibility with C. You see, most normal people do not use STL, they use char strings11:33
RST38hAnd somehow STL had to satisfy normal people11:34
RST38hSo, they made a function to return you a const char *.11:34
RST38hBut do not treat it as an invitation to screw with it.11:35
Mikhoyes, that's exactly the reason I can't see why it wouldn't work, compabitility with C11:35
RST38hMikho: Example why it wouldn't work: c_str() may return a pointer to a temporary buffer11:36
RST38hso whatever changes you make to it do not get reflected in the STL string11:36
MikhoI wonder if there's such an implementation11:36
Mikhoif there is, I'll quit the idea immediately11:38
RST38hWell, cast it to char *, modify it, and continue wondering11:38
RST38hI mean, it's not my job to persuade random people on IRC to do things correctly11:38
jagernotim struggling to change the color of my pen when i draw into a GtkWidget...11:38
jagernoti want to get a GC, then change color via to get a GC on a GtkWidget? thanks.11:39
Mikhooh, looks like it's not possible for the function to return a copy if I use at() instead11:39
jagernoti tried widget->style->fg_gc, black_gc etc but they dont let me change the color..11:40
Mikhosince at() returns a reference11:40
Mikhobut, it doesn't make any assumptions on the character order either... hmm11:40
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johnxgrrr...jaiku wants to be able to send an sms to me :/11:44
johnxnot gonna happen11:44
johnxno SMS support on this carrier11:46
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Stskeepsjohnx: you can just skip that part afaik11:47
johnxah cool11:47
qwerty12Heh, webmin runs slow on the N800 :P11:47
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MeizirkkiXchat crashed :/11:48
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MikhoRST38h, just noticed you recommended avoiding gtk. Is there really a choice if you program for N810?11:52
* lcuk rubs his eyes11:54
* lcuk yawns n stretches11:54
lcukis down?11:54
Stskeepsthink so11:55
StskeepsMikho: qt will come eventually11:55
hahlobithey any guess why /var/run/screen gives permission denied on sdcard boot? but works flash-disk boot? as user in both cases.11:56
lcuksdcard does not have execute permissions11:56
johnxerrr...not quite11:57
qwerty12ownership I'd guess11:57
johnxit actually fails for me when booting from flash11:57
hahlobitstrange then11:58
hahlobitjohnx: do you have diaablo too?11:58
* lcuk missed the word boot out11:58
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hahlobitcan i fix it somehow? not nice to run screen irssi as a root.12:00
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Stskeepsjohnx: as well then :)12:01
johnxhahlobit, just make the directory12:01
johnxno wonder my zaurus was having so much trouble building docs12:02
johnxjust that part alone is taking 70% of 128MB...12:02
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johnxso anyways, gtk should finish in a couple hours12:04
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Stskeepssounds good, then we can get hacking on hildon and such12:05
Stskeepsi guess we're using the SVN packages?12:05
johnxyeah, I'm following trunk12:05
Stskeeps / fremantle ones12:05
johnxi wonder how different they are at this point12:06
Stskeepswell, trunk=fremantle12:06
johnxah, well that's good news12:06
Stskeepsi doubt it's tagged yet12:06
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johnxi guess the only thing tagged is some hildon stuff?12:07
hahlobitls -l gives /var/run/screen ls -l /var/run/screen12:07
hahlobitdrwx------    2 root     root12:07
Stskeepshahlobit: there's a bit of weirdness about /var/run when the system boots afaik12:08
johnxI think /var/run/screen needs to be remade and chmod 666 every boot12:08
hahlobithope uptime is good then :)12:11
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johnxmmm...changelogs for fremantle look nice :)12:13
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johnx"Replaced scrolled window with pannable area." from hildon-fm fremantle branch Changelog12:16
RST38hjohnx: Are they finally building a decent file manager?12:17
johnxhmm, dunno12:17
johnxthis is just the gtk file open dialog I think12:17
MeizirkkiCan i boot directly into m-r?12:18
StskeepsMeizirkki: yeah, the tar.gz i gave is bootable12:18
RST38hjohnx: it is the same as their file manager12:19
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StskeepsMeizirkki: tar -zxf it on a ext3 fs or something, and it should be bootable without issue, but you should activate console mode / usb in rescue menu12:20
Stskeepsit doesn't have wifi yet12:20
Meizirkkii have unpacked it, but how can i activate console mode?12:21
Meizirkkii have deblet-bootmenu12:22
Stskeepsstart it up like you would deblet and hold down the home key after you've selected it in bootmenu and pressed enter12:22
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Stskeepsthen a menu like on will come up12:23
Stskeepswhere you can select usbnet (will activate console too), or just pure console, etc12:23
Stskeepsserial doesn't work and splash doesnt either12:23
Meizirkkii'm now on rescue menu12:24
Stskeepsjust select ethernet gadget one12:24
MeizirkkiThere is only start deblet normally option12:24
Meizirkkinothing happens, when i press laft of right12:25
Stskeepstry a little harder12:25
Stskeepsit picks up once a second or so :P12:25
Meizirkkiit lagged first time12:26
Meizirkkirebooted and works now12:26
Stskeepson a n800 or n810?12:26
Stskeepsah, lucky bastard12:27
Meizirkkiso i dont need computer when i got keyboard12:27
Meizirkkido i select activate console12:28
Meizirkkishould wlan work if i install nokias wlan firmware .deb?12:29
Stskeepsfirmware is already referred to, you just need to ln -s to umac.ko to initfs and grab my cx3110x.ko from deblet12:30
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Meizirkkiwhat about usb-networking?12:31
Meizirkkiah, Fn does not work :(12:31
MeizirkkiWhat can i do? :) i'm on root prompt12:33
Stskeepsusb networking should work when you select usb networking in rescue menu12:37
Stskeepsand then plug it into a usbnet capable machine, nokia sets ip netmask
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lcukStskeeps, you up for a lazy day today or bat out of hell?12:52
Stskeepsheh, wikipedia "Due in part to the free and open source nature of Linux and Maemo, porting applications to Maemo is a straightforward procedure."12:52
Stskeepslcuk: breakfast, coffee and reading for classes12:52
qwerty12I say bollocks!12:52
johnxto which part?12:53
lcukporting applications is simple, you just have to crack your own framebuffer, construct a graphics library, incorporate support for widget frameworks and then write the applications12:53
Stskeepsjohnx: "straightforward"12:53
Stskeepsmaybe compared to porting from windows CE to maemo12:53
johnxah, I figured bollocks to "reading for classes" :)12:53
johnxor possibly coffee12:53
qwerty12Heh, I don't drink tea or coffee anyway :P12:53
lcukneat vodka12:54
lcukor do you have vodka shandy still?12:54
Stskeepsqwerty12: you don't drink tea or coffee and yet you have energy for all the neck-breaking stuff you do? scary12:55
lcukStskeeps, hes young12:55
lcukgive him a few years12:56
* Stskeeps started at 1512:56
lcukonce he hits 19 or 20 he will be over the hill and begin to show us that he ported backgammon or something12:56
lcukhmmm virus checker is goin bonkers12:57
johnxthat's what they do12:57
qwerty12The joys of windows...12:58
lcukheh, it scanned 1.5million objects before i noticed it had gone nutes though12:58
lcukmustv just hit a noisey drive12:58
hahlobitis there clamavv for maemo?12:58
MeizirkkiTrying to get usbinternet to my n81012:58
Meizirkkii can ping my tablet... but bridging does not work yet12:59
Stskeepsmay come in usefu12:59
lcukjohnx, did you join jaiku so you could cheerleader sts, or for some other reason? :D12:59
Stskeepslcuk: experiment i'm doing.. collaboration over microblogging13:00
Stskeepsor keeping eachother up to date since we are timezones apart13:00
johnxah, so should I post build updates to jaiku instead of IRC then?13:00
lcuksts, as ive said i really like what you are doing :)13:00
Stskeepsjohnx: either is good13:00
lcukheh johnx, i pondered posting all my irc directly to jaiku as well13:00
lcukbut figured i'd blow their servers13:00
Stskeepsjohnx: i've put some of the packages and such already as links on the #reconstructedPOC channel13:01
Mekhmm, is down or is it just me?13:01
johnxStskeeps, I need to follow that too then13:01
StskeepsMek: not just you13:02
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Stskeepsjohnx: it also serves as a kind of backlog we can look back and people who join in can quickly get updated on difficulties/progress/where we are etc13:03
johnxgood. I think this is a good compromise format between wiki and irc13:03
lcukStskeeps, i already get those items dont i13:03
Stskeepslcuk: i'm not sure if you see it just cos of me posting to #reconstructedPOC cos you're following me13:03
lcukonly thing i dont like is the webpage "add your jaiku here"  i keep pressing return to do a second line and it posts it13:04
lcukyeah sts, i havent missed any of them13:04
Stskeepsjohnx: ~/public_html on trac.* is now accessible on btw13:05
Stskeepsfor packages and such13:05
johnxsounds good, I'll start uploading to there and following with a jaiku post13:05
hahlobitxandros got clamav for eeepc maybe nokia should have it in maemo too :)13:06
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lcukhahlobit, go for it, see how well it works13:07
Stskeepshahlobit: i've yet to see a virus and since we don't run everything as root or allow people to type in "reboot" or "wget http://somewhere/something; chmod +x; ./something" on people's keyboards, we're fairly safe13:07
qwerty12hahlobit, there's nothing stopping you from compiling it :). Personally I think it's a waste of time having an av on Linux, forget about a ARM device13:07
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lcukqwerty, you forget malicious code does not just come in binary form13:08
lcukaren't there plenty of scriptable nasties around?13:08
qwerty12Common sense says to check scripts though13:08
Stskeepsjohnx: there seems to be a small bunch of nokia people on jaiku as well so they might follow / join if it gets some more attention13:09
johnxthe more the merrier13:09
johnxis jaiku a nokia project?13:09
johnxor is it just more popular in Europe?13:09
hahlobitqwerty12: i heard fsecure is doing testing on maemo, some of their devs looked bonobo for maemo.13:09
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qwerty12Interesting :). Well, it seems one av company doesn't agree with me :)13:10
Stskeepsjohnx: nah, google thing i think, but it's finnish..13:10
hahlobitis there gsm phone coming on maemo platform?13:11
Stskeepshahlobit: nah, data only HSDPA/3g13:11
Stskeepswould you really want earmarks on your tablet? :P13:11
hahlobitis that 3g model out already?13:12
Stskeepsnop, coming .. at some point13:12
Veggenqwerty12: AV companies have an interest in keeping the myth that Linux virues will come in masses similar to Windows when it gets as popular.13:12
Stskeepsjohnx: think we'll use jaiku icons to seperate the different issues, - so we can go back and see what things we need nokia to fix/problems etc13:12
lcukvirus writers would like to make that come true13:12
meiz_2is the jaiku client "mauku" worth of trying?13:13
Veggenlcuk: Linux isn't immune to viruses, but there's inherent differences making them not as likely to spreak.13:13
Veggeneh, spread.13:13
Stskeepsmeiz_2: it's alright13:13
qwerty12hahlobit, everytime you think of a tablet with a phone, look at this first : :P13:14
hahlobitwonder why no linux virus?13:14
johnxit's not worth the time of virus writers13:14
lcukdidnt viruses and rootkits exist here before windows?13:14
Veggenjohnx: Wrong. Linux computers tend to be on much more continuously than windows machines, and can therefore be much more useful once you get at them.13:15
johnxhahlobit, why target a small technologically knowledgeable group instead of a big, diverse (but mostly not very knowledgeable) group?13:15
lcukhaving a blanket trust of any system is worrying in itself13:15
Stskeepsi think tablets may be useful in terms of bluetooth headsets and such though13:15
Stskeepsfor phoning13:15
lcukjohnx, you dont target the people, you target the hardware - and that same hardware is running most of the internet13:15
johnxlcuk, agreed. package signing needs to become ubiquitous13:15
lcukbut we just abandoned signed packages for repo13:16
Veggenlcuk: Noone does, and that's why it's *always* (well, at least as far back as since I started paying attention) been a habit to for example drop into "nobody"-user for apache...13:16
johnxthe other thing is that the software you need to infect is so massively diverse13:16
qwerty12Veggen, Heh :/. For i386 probably, I still don't believe we will see a "horde" of linux viruses on the tablet :). Especially with the tablets being so easy to reflash. Then again, a virus that destroys mtd0 *shudders*13:16
lcukdestructive viruses are rare nowadays13:17
Veggenqwerty12: I don't believe we'll see a mass of badly written programs that require ordinary users to run as root or have such rights all over the file system.13:17
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lcukyou still occasionally here about people firing up their amigas and inserting old disks13:17
lcukits like ebola outbreaks13:17
Veggenqwerty: Windows' virus-problems these days largely are due to that very old habit.13:17
Stskeepslcuk: i still wonder how much damage is possible to do with extras upload.. you could potentially override some base packages13:18
lcukso if one extras uploaded was compromised it could be a problem13:18
lcukuploader ^13:18
lcuki quite liked the signing process13:19
lcukit was a pain in the arse, but gave it that offical stamp13:19
johnxVeggen, but any program installed can have a postinst run as root13:19
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hahlobithave you seen rootkits on maemo?13:20
lcukno, but why do that - the entire kernel can be replaced13:20
qwerty12hahlobit, - rootkit hunter, knock yourself out :P13:21
lcukheh - in a discussion about viruses i dont think anyone will install a random deb13:21
lcukeven from you qwerty13:21
hahlobitthat for maemo cool13:21
lcukespecially from you actually :P13:21
qwerty12Nah, it's from itT user free, who's been around for a long time :P13:22
qwerty12lcuk, :P. Fine, I'll scrutenize liqbase closely when I upgrade it :P13:22
lcukgreat, please do qwerty, i removed the root requirement for just this reason discussed now13:22 still down :(13:23
lcukthe cpu adjustments now are the only things run with sudo13:23
johnxeh, viruses that run as root are totally unnecessary13:23
lcukagreed johnx, still a lot of valuable stuff in there without13:23
hahlobitwonder is there many webservers on maemo13:23
johnxopening ports, reading browser cache, running as a daemon13:23
johnxhahlobit, plenty13:23
qwerty12lcuk, it was kinda dodgy running liqbase as root as you once did because that messed up ownership of files :P13:24
lcukyeah i know - its fine now though :)13:24
protomeiz_2, maemo is up now :)13:25
lcukdo you think we will have nice fast after this service break?13:25
lcuk"The operation timed out when attempting to contact"13:25
protolcuk: Impressive job with liqbase13:25
lcukthank you proto :)13:25
qwerty12lcuk, same here13:26
lcukthank you qwerty :p13:26
* qwerty12 slaps himself for even thinking about switching to KDE from GNOME13:26
protowell, I dont know shit about programmin but still seem 9cool13:26
qwerty12lcuk, timing out that is :P. You've heard my complements towards liqbase before :P13:27
protolcuk, I leaved a message on the maemo forum13:27
lcukrecently or a couple of months ago?13:28
protoabout helping you out with graphics in case13:28
protomh, a couple of hours ago I think13:28
protoseem pretty recent to me13:29
lcukmmmm find the post cos theres nothin on the thread and my mail hasnt binged13:29
* lcuk has neglected slashdot this year13:30
hahlobitapt-cache search apache  didn't find any?13:30
lcukive dropped my stats on seenonslash :(13:30
johnxhahlobit, try lighthttpd (sp?)13:30
qwerty12lcuk, for you:13:30
infobotSlashdot Headlines (6 of 15): Irish GSM Providers Asked to Track Users' Web Use ;; OpenSolaris 2008.11 &ndash; Year of the Laptop? ;; China Hijacks Popular BitTorrent Sites ;; Amazon's Cloud Data Center to Follow Google to Oregon ;; Microsoft Working On Its Own App Store ;; NYCL Responds to RIAA Accusations.13:31
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hahlobitnokia got port of apache for symbian (raccoon) i thought they port it maemo too13:32
johnxit's available somewhere I'm sure13:33
johnxbut why do you need apache?13:33
johnxit doesn't need to be "ported" just recompiled and repackaged13:34
lcukbecause its backend surely it doesnt need "porting" it should just be a case of building it ?13:34
qwerty12hahlobit, lighttpd (which would run a hell of a lot better on the tablets) is available at:
johnxbut "porting" is kind of an amorphous word13:34
qwerty12apache2 is in extras and on garage afaik13:34
hahlobitbut with symbian it was port13:34
qwerty12symbian ain't linux13:35
hahlobitnice to have apache on phone too13:35
johnxI'm still trying to figure out why you want apache over something faster and smaller?13:36
hahlobitno reason just know it13:37
protohttpd on maemo sound amazing to me13:37
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lcukProto, this is amazing ive seen the swirly nokia logo before (i went to the website they have lots of nice things) but the  background somehow feels like escher mixed up with xkcd13:40
* lcuk loves pencil drawings13:41
Stskeepsis that bacon in one of the bubbles?13:41
protolol, thanks, I just grabbed a screenshot from the nokia marketing clip13:41
protooh, uhm, no13:42
lcukStskeeps, i think so13:43
lcukdon't believe proto :P13:43
protoI was refering to then new wallpaper13:43
protoyou are right13:43
protodamn it, I didnt think I uploaded that13:43
protoI guess I should remove it from there13:43
lcukthats a shame13:44
lcuki really like it13:44
* lcuk adds a monitor for that thingy13:44
protowell, I didnt make it, I just paste the nokia logo on a probably copyrighted pic13:45
prototake it13:45
protoill probably remove it  in a couple of days13:45
protowell, Im nearly bored with that stupid theme13:45
lcukheh, your new desktop looks cool as well13:46
lcukim reminded of the flash version of portal for some reason13:46
protoyes, that is the nokia clip screenshot13:47
protodman it really late13:48
protofather wait me for lunch13:48
protosee you soon guy13:48
protohappy sunday13:48
lcukcya proto13:48
johnxheh...end of sunday here :/13:48
* lcuk has a happy sunday13:49
* lcuk jumps for joy \o/13:49
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mlpugis website up-and-running properly? I cant access it while other sites tend to work ok14:00
mlpug"The server at is taking too long to respond."14:01
johnxlooks down from here14:01
Meizirkki2There are many "icy" packages available at
johnxyeah, saw that, but I think it's still pretty slim compared to hasty14:04
johnxstill, more are showing up every day14:04
* johnx is jealous of mojo's build farm14:04
Meizirkki2yep, waiting for armv6el-vfp release..14:04
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johnxwell an armv5el release would be interesting too :)14:06
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Meizirkki2thinking about the time, its only week when interpid came offical...14:08
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eichiis there somewhere a maemo sdk qemu image?14:12
Stskeepsthink there's a vmware one..14:12
GNUtonis down?14:13 is down I think14:13
GNUtonMek: that's great14:13
qwerty12_N800'cept garage + the repos14:14
lcukuuuurg she would have no problem coding everything, got plenty of hands14:15
mlpugcan I introspect what dbus services in n810 are available for my application to use? for example, does gpsd offer geolocation coordinates for my application to use?14:20
camel_liuDoes anybody have a sample about how to play ogg video in maemo?14:23
camel_liuI can play a .ogg file's audio, but cannot play its video.14:23
Stskeepsjohnx: glib in the .tar.gz is your package btw14:24
johnxlibosso is up, I *think* gtk must be close to finished14:24
johnxany request for the next build? for now I'm running separate builds on both machines. after gtk finishes I'll switch to distcc14:25
camel_liuThe window is flashing in different color when play a .ogg, but I can hear its audio.14:26
Stskeepsjohnx: sec, might have one14:27
bergiethere is a new database server coming for, so this might be the downtime for that. not sure14:28
Stskeepsjohnx: hildon-1 i guess is next logical step14:28
johnxdepends on gtk, right?14:28
johnx<- duh of course it does john14:29
lcukbergie, finally upgrading to a new n810 then14:29
bergielcuk: I'm more waiting for friday when we upgrade midgard there :-)14:29
Stskeepsyeah, and on that only of the stuff we're messing about with14:29
lcukexcellent bergie, hope it goes smoothly14:29
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johnxhopefully gtk will finish before I go to bed and hildon-1 can compile overnight to give distcc a good test14:30
Stskeepsshould be done with --with-maemo-gtk=yes i guess (if it's not default on)14:31
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StskeepsMAEMO_CHANGES or something14:33
johnxlooks like it defaults to enabled14:35
johnxthink it's reasonable to build without docs for now?14:35
Stskeepsverify when configure runs i guess14:35
Stskeepsproof of concept, not final system14:35
johnxthe time spent on docs is kind of ridiculous14:35
Stskeepsi forsake scrollkeeper and all it's evil as well14:35
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johnxalright, no more builds with docs14:37
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johnxI don't even know if xsltproc is still working or if it just fell into a loop :/14:49
camel_liuDoes anyone know how to program to play .ogv or .swf using gstreamer?14:49
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Meizirkki2now installing qemu...15:10
lcukStskeeps, i am right in thinking i can use qemu and your image from windows aren't i15:13
Stskeepslcuk: the .tar.gz? right now it's a thing that boot on the tablet15:13
Stskeepsjffs2 images are bootable on qemu but i havent released those yet15:13
lcukis it possible to just grab the standard maemo one and boot with that15:14
lcukor wont it work15:14
Stskeepsyeah, it is15:14
Stskeepsread hrw's postings on it15:14
Stskeepsbut you need to do some tricky stuff to get it to boot properly i guess15:14
lcukcool, cos obviously windows install will appeal to some users15:14
StskeepsMeizirkki2: where i get my qemu from15:15
Stskeepsand toolchains and sb215:15
Stskeeps(requires a lot of stuff. git, svn, etc.)15:15
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Meizirkki2what was that command to debootstrap minimum system?15:21
Stskeepsdebootstrap --arch=arm --variant=minbase hasty /target mirror15:23
Stskeepsi think15:23
johnxsounds right. and remember that mirror is required15:23
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amrileriadoes anyone have a good pointer to doc where I can see how to implement xmlhttprequest from my rich client in python. I couldn't find any.15:27
johnxinteresting. running ifconfig in ubuntu on the n800 has a non-zero chance of causing the machine to hang and reboot15:34
Stskeepsmy booted image?15:34
johnxmine actually15:34
johnxthink it's related to wireless15:35
johnxI might as well install yours at this point though and work up from it15:35
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Meizirkki2i an willing to try run armv6 release in qemu15:51
Stskeepsmm - make a ttyS2 in etc/event.d in same manner as tty1, add ttyS2 to /etc/securetty15:54
Stskeepspasswd root15:54
Stskeepsget poky-nokia800-flashutil15:55
Stskeepsmkfs.jffs2 -o file.jffs2 -e 128KiB -n -v -r /where/your/sys/is15:55
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Stskeepspoky-nokia800-flashutil file.jffs2 n800.flash rootfs15:56
Stskeepsflasher-3.0 -u -F a nokia firmware image, and grab zImage from it15:57
Stskeepsand then qemu-system-arm -M n800 -cpu arm1136-rw -kernel zImage -mtdblock n800.flash -m 130M --append="root=/dev/mtdblock4 rootfstype=jffs2 console=ttyS2" -serial vc -serial vc -serial stdio15:58
Stskeeps.. and then it should start booting, may wait a while at initial mount15:58
Stskeepsgood luck :P15:59
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Stskeepsand beware, if you want to replace the jffs2 image in it, rm the old one first, or you get funkeh errors16:00
Stskeepsas in, the n800.flash one16:01
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johnxI never used rescue menu until now. It's definitely very cool :)16:05
johnxhi lopz16:05
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Stskeepsjohnx: very useful indeed16:10
Stskeepsmuch can be said about XP's F8-on-boot, but it is actually bloody useful16:11
johnxexcept when it isn't16:12
johnxwhereas init=/bin/sh will almost always get you *somewhere*16:12
johnxthe main reason I use linux is I got fed up with things going wrong in windows and having no way to fix them16:13
johnxreally quiet news day O_o16:14
Meizirkki2maybe is't best if i just let that qemu thing go...16:16
StskeepsMeizirkki2: hehe, it will emulate a little faster than n800 but not much more16:17
Meizirkki2I have n o idea how can i make it work, so i'll just play littlebit more with my n810.16:17
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Meizirkki2your 123mb flash thing looks great16:19
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camel_liuhow can I play a video using gstreamer in scratchbox?16:21
camel_liugst-launch filesrc location=Ballun2008.ogg ! oggdemux ! theoradec ! xvimagesink16:21
Stskeepsyeah, but i would ideally like to have base user experience around 100mb-110mb16:21
johnx|n800my desktop just shut off and won't turn on. might take me a bit longer to finish builds :/16:21
Stskeepshate when that happens, johnx|n800 :P16:21
Stskeepsi'll get a maemo gtk build going then16:21
camel_liuIt returns: Could not open display16:21
Stskeepscamel_liu: export DISPLAY=:0 or something16:22
johnx|n800yeah. don't really have another x86 box right now :|16:22
camel_liuI use: Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x24 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite16:22
camel_liuand export DISPLAY=:216:22
camel_liuxvimagesink.c(1348): gst_xvimagesink_get_xv_support (): /GstPipeline:pipeline0/GstXvImageSink:xvimagesink0:16:23
camel_liuNo port available16:23
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lcukxephyr cannot do xv16:24
camel_liuXlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server16:24
lcukhrw couldnt get mplayer nor liqbase running in emulated environment for the same reason16:24
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camel_liuthat is when export DISPLAY=:016:24
Stskeepscamel_liu: you're better off testing on tablet for this16:25
johnx|n800it lives!16:26
camel_liuvideo cannot test in scratchbox?16:26
Stskeepsjohnx: woo!16:26
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derfcamel_liu: What's wrong with just using playbin?16:27
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camel_liuderf, how to just use playbin?16:28
derfgst-launch playbin uri=file:///path/to/file16:29
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johnxwell that put me pretty close to panic for a while O_o16:29
camel_liulet me try16:29
Meizirkki2 ls16:30
Meizirkki2sorry :)16:30
StskeepsMeizirkki2: you're not on an android phone16:30
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Stskeepsjohnx: i have that with my work stuff.. even though i'm insured up the wazoo, i would -hate- to break something16:30
camel_liureturn: Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server, Xlib: No protocol specified16:30
johnxnormally, I'd just be frustrated but if this box dies it might be a while before I can replace it16:31
derfSet your DISPLAY to point back to :216:31
camel_liuwhat should I set export DISPLAY?16:31
camel_liuderf, it's DONE!16:32
derfYer welcome.16:32
Meizirkki2sorry about my english skills, stskeeps, what did you mean with that android phone?16:32
derfcamel_liu: Out of curiosity, what are you planning to do with Theora?16:33
johnxthere's a bug on the new android phones that cause anything typed on them to be executed as a command by root16:33
camel_liuthen, what's the sink should be in program?16:33
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camel_liuI have a plan with maemo and N800. I'm trying to figure out a bussiness plan about an especial application of a handheld like N800 in China.16:35
camel_liuI think it's a big bussiness.16:36
Stskeepsjohnx: you remember to dpkg -i your own packages when compiling the next step btw?16:37
johnxyes, of course16:37
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johnxheh...I only got one step in though16:37
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johnxso did you start a maemo-gtk build?16:38
Stskeepsnot yet, setting up my environment for it16:38
camel_liuderf, what should I use in sink element?16:39
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Meizirkki2For m-r ui, Is the hildon good choise?16:40
Meizirkki2i mean is it going to be with hildon and matchbox16:40
StskeepsMeizirkki2: that's initial goal -but- the goal is that it should be a versatile platform16:40
Stskeepsif people want to run u-m interface, lxde, etc, they can16:41
Stskeepsand there won't be a "hack" feeling about it16:41
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Meizirkki2but with 250 mb flash it won't be possible to install another desktop environment into nit16:41
StskeepsMeizirkki2: aufs, clone to SD16:42
Stskeepsplenty of possibilities.16:42
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Meizirkki2i cannot kick myself...16:43
Stskeepsit's just about supporting it sanely in the system so it isnt a hack16:43
lcukStskeeps, its usable :D
Meizirkki2i mean that i tried to kick myself from this channel :)16:44
StskeepsMeizirkki2: /part :P16:45
Stskeepsyou cannot kick yourself :>16:45
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Meizirkki2is there a repository or a place where on the internet where you have those .debs like kerner-diablo-modules?16:47
Meizirkki2*place in the internet16:48
Stskeepsin pool/16:48
Meizirkki2are there arm packages too16:48
Stskeepsnot yet :P16:48
Meizirkki2or armel16:48
hahlobitStskeeps: could you make sdcard debians for nokia phones too :)16:48
Stskeepshahlobit: with a very large hammer and a useless result..16:48
hahlobiti would like debian in n95 too16:49
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Stskeepsit's slightly easier getting other linux types on n8x0's than on n95s, which afaik has signed firmware16:50
hahlobitiphone got linux16:50
johnxiphone has more people working on it16:50
johnxyou could be do your part in getting linux on the n95 though :)16:50
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, signing was cracked a long time ago16:51
Meizirkki2debian would be nice on my 5500 with 208x208 screen16:52
hahlobithackndev guys spoke booting communicator from sdcard but didn't see it16:53
Meizirkki2what packages i have to install for bootable hasty?16:56
johnxwhy not just start with Stskeeps' minbase .tgz?16:56
Stskeepshe's trying with armv616:56
Stskeepsoh, hasty?16:57
Stskeepsthen use my tar.gz? :P16:57
johnxdebootstrap an image, install boot basics,16:57
Meizirkki2is there armv6 .tar.gz16:57
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Stskeepsto get to my result you need to install boot basics, copy /etc/init.d/deblet-boot-basics from armv5 .tar.gz, install udev, cp in fb0, fb1, fb2, etc :P16:58
Meizirkki2only boot-basics is enough?16:58
Stskeeps.. and the fbcon stuff16:58
Stskeepsit's not a easy feat :)16:58
Stskeepsyou may be easier off simply replacing each package in armv5 one with their armv6 counterpa16:59
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: isn't n95 and n800 same base board?16:59
johnxaaactually, couldn't you switch repos and pin the armv6 repo higher to force a reinstall?16:59
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, both bb5, both use same processor17:00
Stskeepsjohnx: but may fail cos i did docpurge17:00
johnxit shouldn't, should be a straight upgrade17:00
johnxeither way, it's a faster result than manually hacking around building a bootable system17:01
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StskeepsMeizirkki2: if you're bored you can attempt with getting X running and such on armv5, xserver from deblet should work just fine17:02
Stskeepswe can move to armv6 when we've gotten the various packages built and such17:02
johnxI'll be able to start building gtk with distcc in a couple minutes, if you haven't started yet17:03
Stskeepsand make an installer that puts stuff on top, like deblet does it17:03
StskeepsMeizirkki2: you're also welcome to take source packages from deblet such as deblet-boot-basics, update it with the tar.gz version of the script, and dpkg-buildpackage it :)17:04
Stskeepsso we have it17:04
Stskeepsjohnx: think mine will take atleast 10 mins before it's easy17:04
Stskeepsmy attempt is qemu chroot of it with distcc somewhere else17:04
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Stskeepsso just go ahead with yours.. im wondering if mine will be okay, two different gcc versions it seems17:07
johnxit *should* be17:07
johnxmaybe we should both try unless you have other things to work on17:08
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Stskeepsyeah.. it's just running right now17:08
Stskeepsand reading for classes17:08
Stskeepsbetter to have two attempts going if one fails ;)17:08
johnxand if both fail, we'll learn twice as much :)17:09
Stskeepspackages that don't respect CC= are fail.17:18
johnxwell, there goes both of our plans17:19
Stskeepsah, lovely, it did repsect it17:19
Stskeepsthat's funky17:19
Meizirkki2i was doing my homework :X17:21
Meizirkki2i almost have booting armv6 now :)17:21
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Stskeepsi'm watching gtk compile17:23
Meizirkki2well anyway i am just a kid, so i might just think i am smart enough to do that :P17:23
Meizirkki2to make it bootable17:23
johnxyou should be able to. it's tricky, but totally doable17:23
Stskeepslinuxrc makes things a -lot- easie17:23
Stskeepsless initfs crap to deal with17:24
johnxas soon as you can get a shell of some sort, it gets a lot easier17:24
Meizirkki2i debootstrapped armv6 on top os Stskeeps unpacked armv5.17:25
Stskeepsthat works? :P17:25
Meizirkki2and i know that was not smart17:25
Stskeepsi'm not confident it isn't directly impossible either17:25
Meizirkki2i have'nt tride yet17:25
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Stskeepsyou may have some inconsistent package state but files stay17:26
Meizirkki2(or whatever17:26
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* Stskeeps wanders down to get some more coffee17:27
Meizirkki2i think it would boot now, but i'll try to install needed packages....17:27
Stskeepsif you sense any kind of speedup, i'm all ears17:29
Meizirkki2one of my first tries with mojo: i accidentally debootstrapped it on top of deblet, and many things worked better, like locales, and it did not nagg about missing kernel modules...17:30
Stskeepshehe. progress often happens by accident17:30
Stskeeps"hmm, that's funny"17:30
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Meizirkki2Is there anything i can test the speed of hasty?17:31
johnxgtkperf maybe?17:31
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Meizirkki2i can install and generate locales, but how can i set the default locale?17:33
Jaffaaf'noon all17:34
lcukhey there jaffa17:34
Meizirkki2wohoo! i made it17:40
Meizirkki2bootable armv6,17:40
Stskeepswith console? :)17:41
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Meizirkki2every time i install mojo, i have to flash bootmenu17:41
Meizirkki2otherways, linuxrc wont work17:42
Stskeepsfeel free to micro-document the achievement on #reconstructedPOC17:42
Stskeepson what you did to get there17:42
Meizirkki2Maybe it boots because i debootstrapped on top of your rootfs :P17:42
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Stskeepsdamn, gtk is still compiling17:48
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Meizirkki2it takes sooooooo long18:04
Jaffap.m.o down?18:04
Jaffabah18:05 has been down whole day18:05
Meizirkki2GMT +2 :p18:05
* Jaffa is in the mood for some Valable hacking, but is at parents' unexpectedly18:06
GAN800Servers are moving. :/18:06
Meizirkki2should i try go make x work?18:06
johnxI wonder why they didn't just plug in wireless cards and big UPS devices...18:06
JaffaGAN800: hadn't that already happened? Or is this a physical move of the new h/w?18:07
Meizirkki2Stskeeps: i'll install hildon an try if it works?18:07
JaffaDoing things "out-of-hours" makes *least* sense when it's a hobbyist community, IMHO18:07
nemoJaffa: p.m.o WFM18:07
StskeepsMeizirkki2: get xserver working first, get xserver-xomap from deblet and look at /etc/default/x-server.defs18:08
Stskeepsand use the last part as parameters for X18:08
Stskeepsyou may need to fb_update_mode manual18:08
Stskeepsand then see if you can get u-m running i guess18:09
Meizirkki2u-m = ubuntu-mobile?18:09
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Stskeepsthat itself is kinda a neat showoff :P18:10
Meizirkki2it is gonna take some time with ky18:10
Meizirkki2* my skills and my internet speed18:10
Stskeepsi had a open source project going when it was 57.6kbps and i was 15, stop complaining ;)18:11
Meizirkki2i have 54kb/s and i am 14! :D18:11
nemoStskeeps: hah. you kids and your fast modems18:11
Meizirkki2so i WILL complain18:11
Stskeepsoh, now qwerty12 isn't the youngest anymore, neat18:11
Stskeepsnemo: i -did- use a 14.4kbps in the beginning :P18:12
nemowe counted ourselves lucky if our BBS had 2400bps :D18:12
Meizirkki2i should download everyhing at school, 9800kb/s18:12
nemoStskeeps: I reiterate :-p18:12
hahlobitStskeeps: were you involved linux 0.1 then :)18:12
Stskeepshahlobit: i'm 24 now :P18:12
Stskeepsso no, but i did try debian back in 95 or so18:13
johnxwhen you were 10?!18:14
Stskeepsi coded pascal somewhat sanely at 9, so18:14
johnxahaha...I got into the game late18:14
nemoStskeeps: hey! me too!18:14
johnxI could barely type until I was 1318:14
Stskeepsand c64 basic at 6-718:14
nemoStskeeps: my mom sent me to local community college to learn pascal :)18:14
nemoStskeeps: it was *the language* back then18:14
* Stskeeps was mostly self-taught18:14
johnxhey, at least it wasn't COBOL18:14
GAN800Jaffa, servers are being moved to a new physical location.18:15
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Stskeepsmy parents had a cobol book18:15
Stskeepsi read it for a while and then gave up18:15
nemoStskeeps: but, I'm surprised you were still learning pascal at 9, it was already descendant at the time18:15
GAN800I don't think there are any real upgrades going on, though. :\18:15
Stskeepsnemo: poor family. old equipment, used polypascal and turbo pascal18:15
Stskeepson a 8028618:15
JaffaGAN800: Ta for the info. BTW, seen the -devel thread about CLI apps in AM?18:15
Stskeepsso learnt how to use a computer to the fullest and appreciate the equipment that's working18:16
nemoStskeeps: '86 personally (Turbo Pascal)18:16
GAN800Jaffa, yeah, I may wade into that one when I'm back home18:16
nemoStskeeps: I infer from you giving your age you learned TP in '9518:17
GAN800Jaffa, personally, I don't have an issue with commandline tools like wget, nano and ssh being in user/utilities18:17
Stskeepsnemo: nah, this was tp 5-6-7 or something18:18
nemoand actually might have been '88 - if mom signs on, I'll ask her18:18
Stskeepsi was 3 years old in 8418:18
GAN800tz sort of muddied the discussion with more of his Red Pill nonsense.18:18
zakkmi was 1 year old in 1992 ;p18:18
Meizirkki2I have been playing with linux almost my whole age because my family have used linux since it was 199818:18
qwerty12zakkm, same :P18:18
JaffaGAN800: True. They seem different to filesystems etc, though. Perhaps it's not CLI/non-CLI, but root/non-root?18:18
nemokidding. I'm still a kid. yes.18:18
Meizirkki2you hate kids?18:18
nemono. just feeling old :(18:19
nemobut then, one of my coworkers is in his 60s18:19
Stskeepsi feel old when my nephew starts learning python & php18:19
nemoand he is as much a hacker as ever18:19
zakkmoh qwerty12: i saw you came out with the android release (kernel v2 or something), is it worth trying?18:19
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GAN800Jaffa, that makes sense to me18:19
* Jaffa was programming BBC BASIC when he was 8 in 1985 - so not /that/old now18:19
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qwerty12zakkm, that's pretty old now. I haven't touched android in a long time18:19
nemoJaffa: hey, I found some of my old basic programs from back then18:19
nemoJaffa: they are pretty crappy - wanna laugh at 'em? :)18:20
Jaffanemo: heh18:20
GAN800Jaffa, I don't think Red Pill or SDK repos are at all relevant to the discussion.18:20
JaffaGAN800: Agreed18:20
* Jaffa goes to wake up the boy18:20
nemoActually, I was still coding in qbasic at 13 *sigh* - I didn't learn proper languages 'till later18:21
nemoso you guys are all ahead of me18:21
nemothe pascal I never used outside the community college18:21
* Stskeeps moved on to C from there18:21
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Meizirkki2but i have never been good with coding...18:22
johnxI started TI-Basic at 14, then jumped into an intermediate class on C and miraculously didn't fail18:22
nemoC was a joy after pascal, frankly.  Never understood what the instructor saw in pascal18:22
StskeepsMeizirkki2: plenty of time to learn18:22
nemoannoying freakin' language18:22
Stskeepsjohnx: i -think- my gtk is finishing up18:22
* zakkm learned something called Turing, in beginner programming in grade 10.18:22
johnxI forgot to give make -j418:22
Stskeepsi didn't do that either18:22
* Stskeeps did c64 basic, then poly/turbo pascal, c, then c++, then java at uni and now at python18:22
johnxwhich is fine, it's all happening on my desktop18:22
Stskeeps(of preferred languages)18:23
nemoStskeeps: I think Javascript is ascendant in the interpreted languages :)18:23
zakkmAnyone know if a ipod touch screen protector will fit my nokia n800 perfectly?18:23
nemobut Python is definitely ahead of Ruby18:23
Stskeepsyeah, but python is just delicious :P18:23
Stskeepsit allows me to prototype what i want and do it in a manner that fits with my education18:23
johnxI always liked scheme, just never had a chance to use it18:23
nemoStskeeps: I'm stick with Perl until python gets a set of libs as large as CPAN :-p18:23
Meizirkki2where can i get libts0 for mojo?18:24
nemooh. and I despise their use of whitespace18:24
StskeepsMeizirkki2: it's in universe/multiverse18:24
Stskeepsjust add the sources.list from the dist page18:24
nemoso, I suppose I'll have to write a shell script that autotransforms a more C-like python into standard18:24
nemoafter writing it18:24
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Meizirkki2thanks, i haven't updated my sources.list yet, so there is only main18:24
GAN800zakkm, the iPhone screen is a half-inch smaller. . . .18:24
Stskeepszakkm: get a boxwave one. i love them.18:25
Stskeepswhich reminds me its soon time to replace or clean mine18:25
GAN800I wish all of worked as well as Bugzilla18:25
zakkmah no, i have alot of uhh bootleg malls in my city ( Toronto, Canada) and they sell cheap ipod touch screen protectors18:26
zakkmfor like $3-518:26
zakkmso i was just wondering :p18:26
zakkmMine is so scratched up ( havent removed the one it came with, yet )18:26
nemoyou guys are so careless18:26
nemomy SO's iphone screen is still flawless18:26
nemoand I bought it for her 1½y ago18:26
nemoher battery still works great too18:27
zakkmnemo: i bought my nokia used - it came already scratched18:27
johnxyour SO's battery?18:27
nemooh. nokia18:27
zakkmn800 - $145.18:27
nemojohnx: heh18:27
nemojohnx: that too :-p18:27
nemozakkm: thought you were talking about your ipod touch18:27
Stskeepsnemo: she has it stored in the safe? :P18:27
nemodoes the n800 have less hard of plastic?18:27
nemoStskeeps: she takes it everywhere, she's just more careful :-p18:27
zakkmalot of places sell ipod touch screen protectors cheap.. so i was just wondering if i could buy that for my nokia18:27
nemoleaves it docked when at home to not stress battery18:28
Stskeepsjohnx: woo, all done18:28
johnxnice. you beat me to it by a long shot18:28
johnxbut my distcc env is at least setup18:28
Stskeepshehe, well you had a computer temporarily dying too ;)18:29
johnxyeah, and the ensuing near heart attack O_o18:29
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Meizirkki2okay, where can i get libhall?18:31
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Meizirkki2xserver-xomap deps on it18:32
johnxprobably from the deblet package repo18:33
Meizirkki2it is not there18:33
Meizirkki2trying to find it from debian repos next.18:34
Stskeepslibhal should be in ubuntu really18:34
johnxlibhal1 maybe instead of libhall ?18:34
Meizirkki2that might be it18:34
Meizirkki2yep, thanks18:35
zakkmhow goes the ubuntu on NIT?18:36
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johnxit goes, it goes :)18:36
johnxStskeeps, what cross gcc are you using on your desktop?18:36
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Stskeepsgcc-4.3 something18:37
Stskeepsthink so18:37
johnxok, I'm getting some slightly worrying messages from it18:38
Stskeepsthe rdlo, stuff?18:38
johnxsuch as: arm-linux-gnu-gcc: unrecognized option '-pthread'18:38
johnxand alsom some fairly cryptic stuff about enum18:38
Stskeepsi do have a fairly odd distcc setup so18:38
* Stskeeps uploads maemo-gtk packages18:39
Stskeepsi don't understand my connection - earlier i was scping to my uni with about 5mb/s18:40
Stskeepsscping back again, 150kb/s18:41
zakkmdoes kde4 kill the nokia's battery and cpu ?18:41
Meizirkki2yes it does18:41
johnxStskeeps, complain to the sys admin :D18:41
zakkmi love going through show your screenshots .. threads18:41
Stskeepsjohnx: saw meiz's gallery?
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Stskeepsmost of the last scrshots are very itneresting18:43
Meizirkki2wow, i am getting some respect xD18:43
Stskeepsfor a guy who claimed he never compiled a package, you're doing alright18:43
johnxyes, whatever you did, keep doing it :D18:44
Meizirkki2i am just overblown betatester18:44
johnxeveryone starts out that way18:44
zakkmMeizirkki2: hows lxde on the tablet? ( know it from my old desktop )18:44
Meizirkki2It is good18:45
zakkmmy friend wants to use it for his future linux desktop (hes waiting for a new pc purchase) and i want to be able to show him it first18:46
Meizirkki2i like Deblet with LXDE a lot.18:46
Stskeepsmaemo gtk package on jaiku18:48
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Stskeepshmm.. gtk20-l10n18:49
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Meizirkki2What are these packages for?18:52
Stskeepsmaemo gtk?18:52
johnxMeizirkki, ah, they're the "maemo version" of gtk18:52
Stskeepsjohnx: any objections against using for gtk20-l10n?18:52
johnxnokia makes slight changes to their version of gtk compared to ubuntu or debian18:52
Stskeepsseems to be the fremantle one (4.2 and all)18:52
johnxso a .tar.gz instead of a .deb?18:53
Stskeepsit's a source package18:53
johnxah, well then no problem18:53
johnxI assumed we'd use most of the maemo-customized packages18:53
Stskeepsthis one doesnt exist in normal gtk so18:54
Meizirkki2what was that file i need to edit alter installing xserver-xomap?18:54
Stskeepssee /etc/default/x-server.defs18:54
johnxso you're moving up to hildon? if so, I'll start cairo18:54
Stskeepsfor the parameters to give to X18:54
Stskeepsalright, - gtk isn't terribly optimized though18:54
Stskeepsnot sure which one gcc targeted18:55
johnxheh...actually that's kinda scary18:55
Stskeepsi'll recompile if it becomes an issue :P18:55
johnxthe mojo gcc should target whatever sub arch it came from: armv5el or armv6el, etc18:55
Stskeepsyeah, but distcc18:55
Meizirkki2i have to change something? everything looks good here...18:55
johnxbut the code sourcery one probably targets armv4t18:56
StskeepsMeizirkki2: well there's no script to actually start X18:56
Stskeepsso just X <the parameters from there>18:56
Stskeepsso something like X :1 -nolisten tcp -wr etc etc18:56
johnxbut don't do that unless you have another way to get into the tablet, such as ssh or telnet :)18:56
Stskeepsoh, and do Xomap instead or X18:56
StskeepsX may use the xorg driver which dies18:56
Stskeepsinstead of18:57
zakkmwow lol18:58
Meizirkki2is this good enough to work: Xomap :0 -mouse tslib -nozap -dpi 96 -wr -nolisten tcp19:00
johnxyeah, should work19:00
zakkmanyone know why theres a vertical "line" on left of "home"19:00
StskeepsMeizirkki2: for U-m you want :1 instead probably19:00
zakkmit doesnt go all the way down though19:01
zakkm96 dpi?19:01
zakkmseems small :P19:01
StskeepsMeizirkki2: you might have tslib calibration problems19:01
zakkmthought the nokia has 225 ?19:01
Meizirkki2I can change start-hildon script to use :119:01
johnxzakkm, this line: is it a software thing or a hardware thing?19:01
Meizirkki2i should remove -mouse tslib?19:02
zakkmnuvoclear2 theme19:02
StskeepsMeizirkki2: does /etc/pointercal exist?19:02
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Stskeepsand /etc/init.d/x-server-prepare or something like that19:02
zakkmoh no its not theme specific19:02
Stskeepsthen remove -mouse tslib for now, you won't be able to use touchscreen but you can still see if anything comes up on scren :p19:03
Meizirkki2x-server-prepare exists19:03
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zakkmwhat are you guys trying to attempt?19:03
Stskeepsrun it, x-server-prepare start19:04
Stskeepszakkm: well if wiki was up i could show you.. but we're trying to see what happens if we reconstruct maemo from bottom up19:04
Meizirkki2i am now chrooted...19:05
zakkmyour trying to "opensource" maemo?19:05
Stskeepszakkm: not really.. proof of concept19:05
zakkmuh huh, at first? :P19:05
Stskeepswe're not from nokia :P19:05
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zakkmbut i mean thats what your trying to do ? be able to "edit" it?19:05
zakkmbe able to edit every little thing?19:06
Meizirkki2shoult i add /etc/init.d/x-server-prepare to /etc/default/x-server.defs?19:06
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StskeepsMeizirkki2: no, it's a script that sets pointer calibrations for you :)19:06
Stskeeps(the first one)19:06
johnxzakkm, the goal is to integrate Nokia's maemo GUI into the ubuntu distribution19:06
Meizirkki2BTW trying to boot now :)19:06
Stskeepswe're trying to see if it's plausible to make a OS like maemo that fits in 250m flash, but is as easy to port to as hildonizing an app19:06
Stskeepsinstead of fighting with platform oddities19:07
zakkmuse maemo on a desktop? isnt that what the sdk is for?19:07
johnxquite the opposite, in fact19:07
Stskeepszakkm: this thing runs on tablet19:07
zakkmyou want to boot ubuntu and use maemo ?19:07
johnxclose enough :)19:07
zakkmuse ubuntu with like maemo "DE" on the nokia ?19:07
Stskeepswe are trying to see if we can make a maemo OS with a ubuntu base system19:08
Stskeepswith some changes to make it more mobile friendly19:08
zakkmah huh! changes :P19:08
zakkmyou just said proof of concept19:08
johnxzakkm, exactly. and with maemo just being the "DE" we'd be able to swap in other DEs, such as lxde or kde, or windowmaker19:08
zakkmah cool19:09
zakkmhow's it coming?19:09
Meizirkki2every time i chroot into ubuntu i have to flash bootmenu again to make linuxrc work :(19:09
zakkmwhy would you want to use windowmaker XD19:09
StskeepsMeizirkki2: that's -really- weird O-o19:09
Stskeepszakkm: no idea if you can view this,
Meizirkki2now running fsck19:09
johnxzakkm, you probably don't want to get into a discussion with me about windowmaker. not that I'll be angry, just that it would be long and boring for you :)19:10
GAN800Jaiku is horrible19:10
Stskeepswrite something better19:10
zakkmim sorry but the only reason windowmaker exists is cause its built into xorg XD19:10
johnxzakkm, you're very confused :)19:10
Jaffavery *very* confused19:11
* qwerty12 gets to hildonising transmission. *sigh*19:11
zakkmhow: ?19:11
johnxwell, windowmaker isn't "built in" to xorg, and the concept that a window manager can be built in doesn't make sense really19:12
Jaffaqwerty12: didn't someone already do that?19:12
zakkmi meant bundled19:13
GAN800Stskeeps, I hate having to follow it for updates.19:13
zakkmwith it19:13
johnxzakkm, ok, that makes more sense, but it's not bundled with it19:13
GAN800Jaffa, no19:13
StskeepsGAN800: i have it on mauku on my tablet as a small tv19:13
GAN800Jaffa, it's a half-assed job19:13
zakkmthen how come everytime i install xorg, windowmaker seems to come with it?19:13
qwerty12Jaffa, It's not hildonised :/. Pipeline adjusted the size of some gtk stuff to make it fix better. I took it, added an option to make it fullscreen and packaged it for extras. Seeing as now I'm the maintainer, I may as well try and improve it.19:13
zakkmtheres not even a  -nowindowmaker flag :P19:14
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Jaffaqwerty12: ah, heh19:14
johnxzakkm, why not pop over here and do some reading?
lcukStskeeps, i have it open on mauku as well :)19:14
zakkmi do know what X is19:15
johnxah, just read your other message. windowmaker is totally unrelated to the x server project. It's just a window manager that satisfies the general requirement "window manager" of Xorg19:16
zakkmyes but it comes with it19:16
johnxno. it. doesn't.19:16
Stskeepszakkm: it's a sideeffect of your packaging system19:16
Meizirkki2Xomap does not start :(19:16
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StskeepsMeizirkki2: what error?19:16
zakkmeverytime, no matter what distro.. i installed xorg on, windowmaker seems to come with it19:17
Meizirkki2i don't know, there is only white dot in top corner19:17
johnxbecause it's the best window manager19:17
zakkmeven in gentoo19:17
qwerty12johnx, I'm in fear of choking myself here :P19:18
johnxthe people who put your distro together *know* it's the best window manager and almost everyone will want it19:18
StskeepsMeizirkki2: well Xomap doesn't start anything19:18
Meizirkki2I get into rescue menu and tried to start console19:18
Stskeepsyou need to start some app afterwards19:18
johnxqwerty12, ah, just join in. :)19:18
zakkmjohnx: your a ratpoison fan arent you?19:18
qwerty12johnx, :)19:18
johnxno, because that's a bad window manager19:18
johnxI like good window managers :)19:18
ShadowJK_windowmaker doesn't come by default in fedora...19:18
ShadowJK_nor in debian19:19
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zakkmits not a choice for login window's19:19
zakkmbut i still say its there19:19
qwerty12ratpoison looks worse than even twm19:19
ShadowJK_zakkm, nope19:19
Stskeepszakkm: the windowmanager conspiracy, eh19:19
Meizirkki2Stskeeps: When i do not go into rescue menu display stays showing me linuxrc messages19:19
* zakkm doesnt like anything thats not metacity or fluxbox ;p 19:20
StskeepsMeizirkki2: yeah, there's no splash19:20
johnxit turns out that people can say a lot of things that aren't true :)19:20
* lcuk keeps pondering sliding xv rendering behind a windowmanager19:20
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StskeepsMeizirkki2: so console is only way to get some output and then run X later19:20
Meizirkki2But Xomap is still running?19:20
StskeepsXomap isn't started automatically19:20
Stskeepssystem is19:20
Meizirkki2when i go to rescue menu and select console there is only white cursor in top corner19:21
Meizirkki2so if i add something in rc.local it should start?19:21
Stskeepsyou have usbnet?19:21
Meizirkki2after xomap19:21
Meizirkki2what kind of usb net?19:22
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lcukjaffa, whats an AST19:22
Stskeepsas in able to telnet in from your machine ;)19:22
Stskeepsapt-get install x11-utils, boot with usbnet, telnet in, Xomap :1 -andsoon &, export DISPLAY=:0; xmessage hi19:23
Stskeepsand see if anything comes up19:23
Jaffalcuk: Abstract Source Tree. In-memory model of all the classes, namespaces, methods, variable etc.19:24
Stskeepsjohnx: why cairo btw?19:24
Stskeepsspecific patches from nokia?19:24
johnxer, I thought it would be nokia optimized, but it's actually not19:24
Jaffalcuk: Needed to do proper code complete and (ultimately) refactoring and in-IDE navigation19:24
johnxalso, trying to find things that don't require gtk19:25
johnxsuggestions welcome :)19:25
lcukcool, the sort of thing you can use to get database code generation and dynamic object creation of use from19:25
lcuknice jaffa, its things like this that come for free in vb :)19:25
* lcuk has coded them up himself in the past as well19:25
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lcuki gather the vala compiler wont throw this kind of stuff out for you then19:26
lcukvala --dump_obj_tree19:26
johnxi wonder if sapwood is depending on any maemo specific parts of gtk19:26
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qwerty12~burn pkg-config19:27
* infobot pours gasoline all over pkg-config, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze19:27
zshi, enyone knows what's wrong with
johnxhuh. pkg-config is usually the one I don't hate :)19:27
lcukzs, yeah - its not working19:27
johnxzs, the servers are being moved19:27
zsok thanks19:28
qwerty12johnx, I hate it with a vengance :P. Time to go back to the old fashioned way and hardcode header paths :P19:28
lcukphysically moved as well, quim had to go in work on a sunday, pick up the 770 take it in his car to the new location..19:28
johnxqwerty12, actually pkg-config in a makefile seems fairly sane compared to autoconf, etc19:28
Jaffalcuk: libvala does expose one, but need to access that in Java, and also create appropriate indices for quick and efficient features people (I) want in an IDE19:29
lcukim using an ide which does it differently without trying to build up a full mega list, it simply builds up a token tree of everything encountered (plus the stuff from pre-compiled library definitions) and then just offers those19:30
lcukworks for 99% and would probably be simpler to implement, at least in the short term19:31
johnxok dbus should be a safe target19:31
* lcuk had forgotten how pretty mandelbrot was19:33
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, im wondering what dbus things nokia did, seems like there's a bunch of patches that's definately not in upstream..19:34
johnxand it doesn't depend on gtk, so I figure it's a good candidate19:34
Jaffalcuk: similar to whatI've done already in Valable. Doesn't do the built-in library stuff, which is what I want to learn new APIs without having to Google. Once I do it for libs, it should work for everything as a side-effect (I think)19:34
lcukare you creating this ide on the device or desktop?19:35
zakkmis rotation easily added to my nokia n800 ?19:36
Jaffalcuk: Desktop; Eclipse plugin19:37
lcukjaffa, Val(a)IDE says it supports a symbols browser, have you looked at how it gets it (its vala built isnt it?)19:39
zakkmshould i do the kernel with rotation and 48MHz patch?19:39
disco_stuzakkm: rotation is very simple to install in Diablo19:39
zakkm <-- is a deb possible.. i dont have wifi atm ?19:40
lcuk48mhz patch MAY cause your inserted mmc card to stop working19:40
Stskeepslibhildon1 depends on osso-sounds-ui19:40
lcuk(until you reflash back)19:40
zakkmi use 4gb SDHC?19:40
Jaffalcuk: It uses ctags, which is part of what I already use. Started  hacking on Valable as it was only Vala IDE I could get running ;-)19:40
johnxStskeeps, is that circular?19:41
lcukheh i know that feeling jaffa19:41
zakkmlcuk: i use a 4gb SDHC19:41
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zakkmstage 6 SDHC.. 22mb read.. 10mb write19:41
lcukzakkm, dunno, mine failed, yours might work19:41
zakkmwhats the patched xserver?19:41
Stskeepsjohnx: removing from depends, not needed for libhildon build atleast19:41
johnxzakkm, it adds rotation support19:42
zakkmoh thats what i want19:42
johnxzakkm, you need the kernel too19:42
zakkmthats all i have to do is install that and i get rotation?19:42
johnxyou need everything19:42
johnxyou have a choice of kernels though19:42
zakkmdescribe fail ?19:42
johnxnot be accessible19:43
zakkmdoes it break the SD? ( i boot from SD )19:43
zakkmcorrupt it ? or just maemo cant read it?19:43
johnxpossibly corrupt the filesystem, yes19:43
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johnxjust use the normal kernel on that site19:43
zakkmif i boot from SD, is there a way to connect to pc without having to reboot in flash?19:44
johnxwifi or usb networking19:44
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zakkmim on mac so usb networking doesnt work.. and dont have a wireless router19:45
johnxdoes your mac have a wireless card?19:45
johnxI see19:46
zakkm100% hackintosh, costed me $82 on a motherboard -.-19:46
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johnxgood for you, but any other OS and you'd have working usb ethernet :)19:46
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zakkmyeah i was going to install windows in virtualbox, i was told it would work that way19:47
zakkmit works in linux?19:47
Stskeepslo lbt19:47
johnxzakkm, yeah, really easy in linux19:47
Meizirkki2Stskeeps: as you said: xomap works!19:47
zakkmI install kernel, then xserver?19:47
lbtjust upgraded from a 32bit CPU to 64 bit - new mobo etc19:47
Meizirkki2now trying to get u-m working :P19:48
StskeepsMeizirkki2: hehe, good luck19:48
lbtclean install, clone debian, reconnect all my ldap....19:48
lbtand it looks like it's working19:48
lbtso "hello again"19:48
johnxlbt, 32bit OS or 64bit?19:48
lbt64bit kernel, 32 bit OS (Debian)19:48
johnxgood plan :)19:49
lbtI can live with a tiny performance hit for the ease-of use :)19:49
zakkmif i boot from SD, where should i put my files?19:49
zakkmshould i chmod 777 /home ?19:49
lbtand I have a phenon x3 now - so VMs should be better19:49
zakkmand put in home directory?19:49
* zakkm bought a E2180 pentinum .. the other day :P19:50
johnxsure, just put them in your /home/user/MyDocs19:50
lbtand during all this I've been upgrading my egroupware to 1.6 and getting caldav working.. and pulling the code for gpe-calendar19:50
lbtso of course my current gpe-cal went nuts and now shows a gazillion repeats of a todo task and essentially freezes nut19:51
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lcuklbt, what todo is it repeating?19:52
zakkmunable to install kernel-diablo-flasher. incompatible application package.19:52
lcuk"more cheese"19:52
lbt"buy Cheese!"19:52
* johnx misses cheese :|19:52
Stskeepsjapanese doesn't have cheese? :P19:52
lbtjohnx: you need Shopper V2.2 with international shipping19:52
johnxnot too popular, so it's expensive and ultrapasteurized19:52
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johnxtastses funny :/19:53
JaffaMmmm, cheese & bacon19:53
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lcukbut what kind of cheese realistically goes with bacon?19:53
lbtbacon, mushrooms and Kraft cheese slices19:54
lcuki suppose the real answer is anything - bacon makes any meal nice19:54
lcuk"dull, bland pot roast?   cover it with bacon"19:54
Stskeepsexcept youghurt19:54
lcukbaconnaise is almost yogurt19:55
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lcukmy god im hungry now, i was gonna have fish n chips tonight, but now im not so sure19:56
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* johnx could go for some fish and chips at the nice little British pub downtown :)19:57
lbtOK - how do I kill this window thingy...19:57
lbtyou know, the ones on the desktop19:57
lbtcan't remember their name...19:58
johnxdesktop applets?19:58
johnxmenu at the top, select applets19:58
lbtthat assumes the tablet is responsive19:58
lbtI have ssh though19:58
lbtbut I have to be quick19:58
johnxssh in and restart hildon desktop19:58
lbtit's at 99% cpu19:58
lbtdone that19:59
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lbtand the cpu is using the battery faster than the charger is putting it back19:59
johnxreboot it19:59
johnxreboot from a root shell19:59
lbteach time I login/reboot the hildon restarts the applet :(19:59
lbtand it goes to 100% cpu before I can disable the applet20:00
johnxrename the .so for the applet20:00
lbtssh is still responsive - just not the gui20:00
Stskeepsit's in .osso somehwere probably20:00
lbtwhat dir? I'm afraid I've been away for too long...20:00
Stskeeps /home/user/.osso20:01
Stskeepsthe  conf for it20:01
johnxgrep for your troublesome applet there20:01
johnxor just apt-get remove it20:02
Meizirkkiis this about ubuntu mobile?20:02
johnxnope, just normal os2008 :)20:02
lbtees gone!20:03
lbtThanks guys :)20:03
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johnxgood deal20:04
* Stskeeps re-runs libhildon compile for the third time after forgetting DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS20:04
zakkmare you almost successful in maemo reconstruct?20:04
Stskeepssome successes but we're still far off20:05
zakkmany chance longer battery, faster speeds is part of this project? :P20:05
MeizirkkiStskeeps talked about new nobile-basic-flash last night, Is it impossible for me to compile the new one? That way we should have working ubuntu-mobile-desktop...20:06
Stskeepsnot impossible20:07
Stskeepsjust get adobe-flashplayer, then dpkg-buildpackage deblet-flashplayer20:07
MeizirkkiWhat about the new one that is based on python and GTK20:07
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* RST38h moos20:10
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RST38hSomebody is already running Ubuntu Mobile on the N8x0?20:10
StskeepsRST38h: Meiz had it in a chroot20:10
Stskeepsbut not 100% working20:11
Meizirkkithere is no mobile-basic-flash on that page...20:12
Meizirkki*the launchpad page20:12
Stskeepsyeah, cos they stopped using it :P20:12
MeizirkkiIt is kourou20:13
Meizirkkiis it?20:13
Stskeepsand you need a new hildon-desktop for that too20:13
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zakkmso much work :P20:14
Meizirkkikourou source is only 16 kb!20:14
Stskeepspython, yeah20:15
Meizirkkiso, what do i need, if i want to compile it with my ubuntu box (interpid)20:16
johnxwell, it's python. you don't need to compile it :)20:16
MeizirkkiIs it best to compile on tablet?20:16
zakkmslower :P20:16
Meizirkkiwhen it is so small20:16
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johnxat this point compiling on your desktop will probably be somewhat difficult20:17
Meizirkkiyep, i have tried20:18
johnxso yes, might as well try on your tablet20:18
lbt   ........    "crap.."20:19
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johnxyeah, servers on the moooove20:20
lbtah - that's OK then...20:20
* lbt goes back to checking out his new toys...20:21
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Meizirkkiwill kourou have depency problems if i try to install it in hasty20:23
johnxprobably a couple20:23
johnxyou'll likely need to get some packages from intrepid, compile from source, rinse, repeat20:24
johnxbut after that it should be ok20:24
johnxI tried this before and it didn't work, but things might have changed since then20:24
Meizirkkimaybe i should leave u-m alone until mojo releases their version of interpid :(20:24
johnxwell, that's what I decided, but you should give it a shot if you want to20:25
Meizirkkii'll wait, i have played enough with u-m20:25
Meizirkkibut hildon-desktop should be usable anyway20:26
Stskeepslibhildon up20:26
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johnxdbus compiling :)20:27
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Meizirkkiokay, i will try kourou, but if it has lot of depency problems i'll leavy it for now20:28
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* Stskeeps ponders if he just maimed his maemo20:29
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Stskeepsor got cool fremantle features..20:30
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Stskeepsi'll go for maimed20:30
johnxwhat happened?20:30
johnxwhich one did you pull from the wrong place?20:30
Stskeepsthink it just overwrote the l10ns and the -common package of gtk20:31
Stskeepsif arm was armel it would be a lot worse ;)20:31
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Stskeepsok, can't be that bad20:32
Stskeepslocales and themes maemo doesnt use20:32
tekojoHi all, is back online.20:32
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Stskeepslbt, saw btw? that's what we're trying to work on atm20:33
Stskeeps(a proof of concept of it20:33
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tekojoStskeeps: sounds like it, but shouldn't you know better20:38
tekojoStskeeps: you're the one working on it :_)20:39
lbtStskeeps: it's on one of my 'permanently open' tabs...20:39
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* Stskeeps ponders what to have for dinner20:43
johnxuhm, so where should I drop packages again? I've been putting them in public_html/packages20:45
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Stskeepsjust drop them there and we'll put them in a repo eventually20:45
zakkmStskeeps: Junk food always works well :)20:45
Stskeepszakkm: yeah but after a week of it you get tired of it..20:46
* qwerty12_N800 agrees with zakkm with a bag of chips from the local takeaway in me hand :p20:46
zakkmqwerty12: what chips?20:46
qwerty12_N800zakkm, large fries20:47
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lcukoooer Jaffa - you are the second person to follow me on twitter! but ive not made a single tweet there20:50
Stskeepsjohnx: best way to check packages is doing a file on the binaries20:52
Stskeepsi've had my distcc make x86 binaries for me at some poine :P20:52
johnxI know it's not doing that, because I have a native ARM machine involved too20:52
Stskeepsbut then again the package building didn't finish20:52
johnxanyways, I just ran the binary :)20:52
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Stskeepsand we discover the secret x86 mode of arm chips..20:53
johnxwell the pxa270 *was* an intel chip :)20:53
johnxand it certainly runs hot enough20:53
Meizirkkito get kourou working, i should compile python-hildondesktop and hildon-desktop-python-loader20:54
Stskeepsokay, for some strange reason after adding maemo gtk and libhildon, we're now at 113mb flash20:54
Stskeepscompared to 123 before20:54
johnxdid you possibly replace an installed gtk with maemo gtk?20:54
johnxwell, I guess Nokia *was* doing something right after all :D20:55
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Stskeepsi guess so too20:56
* lcuk bangs his head against a wall20:57
Stskeepsno bacon in the fridge, lcuk?20:57
* GAN800 pads lcuk's wall.20:57
lcukheh, had fish n chips, but its a horrible miserable rainy sunday night20:58
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lcuki dont normally get bored, but i feel so meh! tonight20:58
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johnxdbus-glib is building. getting some sleep for now21:07
johnx'night :)21:09
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Jaffalcuk: heh21:18
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lcukjaffa, i even managed to create a bog standard mandelbrot browser for my tablet (something ive wanted to do forever) but i cant get excited21:21
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Stskeepsmm, i usualy go stale in my excitement once the "cool new thing" factor wears off as well21:25
lcukStskeeps, its just tonight though, normally im enthusiastic about lots of things21:27
lcuki *do* have lots of things i want to do, but no energy or motivation tonight21:27
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MeizirkkiNow, i am debootstrapping again21:39
Meizirkkithis time i want to keep it small and clean21:39
Meizirkkinow i am not trying to install anything unneeded21:39
Meizirkkibut still want to use armv621:39
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lcukhas anyone ever written a spreadsheet viewer before?22:12
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lcukGAN800, have you ? :D which format did you read? o22:18
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RST38hlcuk: Use csv22:32
RST38hYou really do not want to read Excel formats22:32
lcukheh RST38h, im just curious really, not about a specific format (its not even for a spreadsheet) im interested in the cell based lookups and specific backend optimizations for such22:33
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lcukie, is it enough to have a database and for each cell as rendered do a lookup for items in the area, or do you need specific optimizations22:34
RST38hlcuk: Could you explain (for the idiot in me) what exactly you want to do?22:34
lcuki suppose ill look into maptile algorithms22:34
RST38hOk, I see22:34
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RST38hThe data type you are dealing with is known as a sparse array (see Google)22:35
lcuk:) thanks rst22:35
RST38hWhen rendering it, you basically want to get all elements in a rectangular range corresponding to the displayed area22:35
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RST38hIf I were doing it, I would probably use some kind of a tree, a quadtree most likely22:36
lcukyeah - i do that for other projects22:36
lcukbut the granuality is a bit lower for what im trying to do22:36
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lcukloading and preparing that will be a killer time wise22:36
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RST38hThe quadtree will handle the granularoity just fine22:36
RST38h"My friend, wait until 11 or 12 Eastern time before drawing any conclusions, by then you will see the Palin landslide!!" (on mushrooms, no doubt)22:37
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RST38hlcuk: Take a look at this:*_tree22:38
RST38hR*Trees are somewhat of black magic (i.e. no optimal algorithms for building them exist to my knowledge( but they will do the job22:38
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lcukyeah, ill just read from database as im used to, but i might keep granuality at a week level22:40
lcukinstead of the planned day22:40
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lcukRST38h, is a 14mb video too much, ill show you what i want it for22:46
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blackdeathhas anyone been able to port any bluetooth hacking tools for the n810?22:59
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Meizirkki-n810what is depmod?23:05
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RST38hlcuk: it will take a while to transfer 14mb23:07
qwerty12_N800generates a modules.dep so modprobe <module> can be used instead of insmoding repeatdly a module & it's dependencices23:07
RST38hlcuk: so, just tell in plain old fashioned english =)23:07
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citylightshow to fix this: i cant change the programs order in th application men23:09
citylightsguess .desktop is lost23:09
citylightscan i generate this to fix23:13
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citylights.. good my gf is asleep23:13
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Stskeepshm, is the chinook mail app?23:50
Stskeepswho's forward porting it? :P23:50
Stskeepsaw :P23:51
* Stskeeps liked the old one better23:51
GAN800File bugs and/or patch Modest.23:51
Proteousme took the old one out behind the barn and shot it23:51
GAN800You mean "I". :P23:52
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Navior /me23:55
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