IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-11-04

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GeneralAntilleslcuk, Hildon is likely changing, so existing Hildon applications will change, too. :)00:02
lcukyes GeneralAntilles i am aware of things like that, but that is far less upheavel than a major paradigm shift00:02
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GeneralAntillesI don't know if there's an API break in there like there was for Bora -> Chinook00:04
GeneralAntillesThough I'd suspect so.00:04
lcuka bit of an api change does not constitute unworkable, anyway back away from hildon will a native x11 program load and display correctly - yes i know it looks crap, but it WORKS on the device00:05
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l7wow, mplayer is really cool00:24
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l7you don't even need to use clumsy interfaces to play internet radio if you just assign a few aliases to opening your favorite streams00:25
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lcukobama just won the election00:44
lcukbut lost his gran :(00:44
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ccookelcuk: ah, yes. I'm 'looking forward' to the conspiracy theories from the more insane right-wingers :-/00:45
lcukno doubt about this one now00:45
GeneralAntillesThe world's gonna end.00:45
lcuknahhhh, he will do you proud00:46
GeneralAntillesPfft00:46
GeneralAntillesThey're all in cahoots with eachother00:46
GeneralAntillesNone of them are interested in looking out for the people.00:46
GeneralAntillesNo matter what, we're still fucked.00:46
ccookeGeneralAntilles: okay, given that neither of the candidates are likely to survive a year if elected... which of the vice-presidential candidates would you prefer?00:47
GeneralAntillesNeither00:47
GeneralAntillesLike I said00:47
GeneralAntillesThey're all in cahoots00:47
GeneralAntillesIt's like picking between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.00:47
Veggenccooke: Obama will be shot while McCain will die of a heart attack?00:47
ccookethe problem with voting being that politicians always win...00:47
lcukheh00:48
ccookeVeggen: seems likely, doesn't it?00:48
Veggenccooke: not entirely unlikely, either.00:48
ccookelet's put it this way. If I was a little more cynical, I'd be putting money on it if Obama wins.00:48
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Veggenccooke: there are quite a few right-wing nuts that are likely to go through with it, yes...00:49
VeggenBut I still think I'd prefer Biden to Palin :)00:49
VeggenNot that I know *too* much about Biden (he's been pretty anonymous, seen from here in Norway), but Palin? Anything has to be better :)00:50
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't matter, they all have the same agenda.00:50
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mariorzso when flashing a tablet should it be on or off?01:15
mariorzdoesnt seem to find it either way01:15
woglinde_off01:16
woglinde_start flasher01:16
woglinde_and then turn on01:16
mariorzweird, it just boots normally01:16
mariorzill try some mor.e thx01:17
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GeneralAntillesmariorz, follow the directions:01:19
GeneralAntilles~flashing01:19
infobot[flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware01:19
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mariorzcool. thx01:19
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mariorzworking now :)01:24
mariorzhay how well does 0s2008 work on a 770?01:25
mariorzinstalling 2007HE atm not sure if  woudl be better with 200801:26
woglinde_I think 2008 is better01:26
woglinde_but I go to bed now01:26
woglinde_good nite01:26
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mariorznite01:26
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l7wow http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg06566.html is quite useful02:13
l7run-standalone.sh /usr/bin/browser --url=$url is great!02:14
GeneralAntillesbrowserd --url should get you the same thing02:14
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GeneralAntillesThat's for OS2006, so I'm not sure how deprecated it is.02:14
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* GeneralAntilles chuckles at andre__'s South Park avatar.02:15
l7hrm02:15
andre__harhar02:15
l7browserd --url doesn't seem to work02:16
andre__GeneralAntilles: it's quite similar to an original photo i think02:16
l7/media/mmc2/MyDocs $ browserd --url http://192.168.1.4/~l/mp3/foobar.mp302:16
l7browserd: invalid option -- -02:16
l7/media/mmc2/MyDocs $ browserd --url=http://192.168.1.4/~l/mp3/foobar.mp302:16
l7browserd: invalid option -- -02:16
GeneralAntillesMisremembering, I guess.02:17
l7maybe it's been removed it it was deprecated02:17
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l7hmm, is it possible to get the osso media player to automatically play when i pass it a url?02:19
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l7i'm using osso-media-server http://192.168.1.2/foobar.mp3 to play files from my computer02:20
l7but i still have to walk over and hit play02:20
GeneralAntillesWhy do you need to use Media Player?02:20
GeneralAntillesWhy not just use mpd?02:20
l7guess i haven't gotten around to trying it02:21
l7i'll give it a look02:21
l7what do i need on the server side?02:22
GeneralAntillesOne of about a thousand mpd clients.02:22
GeneralAntillesIf by "server" you mean "desktop"02:23
l7yeah02:23
GeneralAntillesSince the tablet's the server when it's running mpd.02:23
GeneralAntilleshttp://mpd.wikia.com/?page=clients02:23
l7ah i see a mac client02:23
l7i thought it was unix centric02:23
l7well, linux centric02:24
l7hrm, too lazy to find my xcode cd02:25
pupnikhmm02:25
GeneralAntillesl7, it's available off apple.com02:25
pupnikthat esd thing on tablet kinda works nice02:25
pupniktries to calculate the net delay when connecting02:26
pupniknever holds sync, but what would network audio be without bad sync and echoes around the room...02:26
pupnik... an FM transmitter....02:26
l7GeneralAntilles: which section?02:27
GeneralAntillesrimshot02:27
l7it's not in apple.com/downloads02:27
GeneralAntillesl7, somewhere in the developer's corner02:27
GeneralAntilleshttp://developer.apple.com/tools/xcode/02:27
l7oh yeah mean xcode02:27
pupnikhmmm02:27
GeneralAntillesFirst result on Google. :P02:27
l7yeah only xcode 302:27
GeneralAntilles2 was still available last time I checked.02:27
l7i'm on 10.4 and i looked everywhere for xcode 202:27
l7i'm pretty sure it's gone02:27
l7they want people to work on 10.5 or take a hike now02:28
l7maybe i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure it's gone02:28
l7the xcode 2 manual is gone too02:28
l7xcode 1.5 is long gone i think02:29
GeneralAntillesWeird02:29
l7that's the thing about apple, all the old versions of things eventually vanish, which forces you to horde your own little repository of stuff if you want to use it later02:29
* GeneralAntilles just upgrades.02:30
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l7yeah, that's usually the thing to do02:30
l7though occasionally the old versions are better or less restrictive in some ways02:31
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l7upgrade cycles are also a good time to be forced to upgrade software that works fine in one version of the OS but is broken in the next02:35
l7maybe they'll keep their promise of not breaking stuff in 10.6 though, who knows02:36
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l7activating mplayer through ssh seems to take away your ability to control it via terminal03:51
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l7why is that when i do 'ssh user@192.168.1.3 mplayer $url' to play music, that i cannot control it from the terminal?03:52
l7when i shell in normally and activate mplayer it works fine03:52
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ryoohkihow can i verify video is working in skype on the new n810?04:07
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GeneralAntillesryoohki, you don't.04:12
GeneralAntillesSkype doesn't support video.04:12
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zakkmHow much battery life should the Nokia N800 have, brand new.04:27
zakkm?*04:27
GeneralAntilles4-6 hours active04:28
GeneralAntillesaround 6-14 days completely idle04:28
zakkmoh okay, i bought it used.. and fully charged it says 7 hours in use,  10 days idle04:28
GeneralAntilles2-4 days idle on wifi.04:28
zakkmis that right?04:28
zakkmshould i get a new battery?04:28
GeneralAntillesThose estimates are based on charge percentage.04:28
zakkmyeah04:28
zakkmshould it say more ?04:28
GeneralAntillesNo04:28
zakkmso i have a good battery?04:29
GeneralAntillesWell04:29
GeneralAntillesIt wont say less for a broken battery04:29
zakkmoh04:29
zakkmcuase the time really goes fast04:29
zakkm-.-04:29
GeneralAntillesSo, my point was that those numbers are meaningless.04:29
zakkmit was like 7 hours, next thing it said under a hour.. in like 1-2 hours04:29
GeneralAntillesHow old is the tablet?04:29
zakkmDont know, bought it used04:29
zakkmnever asked how old it is04:29
zakkmI bought it half a week ago ?04:30
zakkmits not like omg its so bad04:32
zakkmbut i remember my 770 lasting a lot longer, and i feel like this should last long too04:32
GeneralAntillesbattery could be shot04:33
GeneralAntillesThey're not the longest lasting things ever.04:33
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zakkmk, thanks04:39
zakkmI'll see how much a new one is04:39
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smackpotatodoes the 770 recieve bluetooth audio04:47
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GeneralAntillesReceive?04:47
GeneralAntillesFrom?04:47
smackpotatoya from one of the bluetooth transmiter you can plug into your stereo04:48
GeneralAntillesA2DP? No.04:48
smackpotatobummer what is the problem04:49
GeneralAntillesUm?04:49
smackpotatosorry i didnt see the nick04:49
GeneralAntillesYou want to connect the audio out of your stereo to a Bluetooth transmitter and send it to a 770?04:49
GeneralAntillesWhy in the world?04:49
smackpotatoso i can listen to the fm04:50
GeneralAntillesJust tune into the internet stream?04:50
GeneralAntillesMost stations have one these days.04:50
smackpotatoya i know but i live in a remote canadian village04:51
GeneralAntillesOr cut out the 770 and just use a pair of wireless headphones directly.04:51
GeneralAntillesOr buy an N80004:51
smackpotatoi have a 81004:51
smackpotatosomone was mentioning using the old 770 as a internet radio04:52
GeneralAntillesYeah, to plug into your stereo.04:52
smackpotatoya04:52
smackpotatook take 204:53
smackpotatothe bluetooth will come from cheep,fm radio04:53
smackpotatoso i can control the volume from bed04:54
smackpotatofm radio via bluetooth via 700 via stereo va sounwaves04:55
smackpotatoam i any clearer than mud04:56
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ryoohkiGeneralAntilles: skype supports video just fine on my n80005:43
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GeneralAntillesUm, since when?05:43
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lopznight05:50
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zakkmvideochat works on skype?06:33
zakkmI been trying to find some way to videochat with a friend06:33
GAN800No.06:35
GAN800Gizmo.06:35
zakkmIs the battery life lower, if i boot from SD?06:36
zakkmim wondering if that might be causing my low battery life06:36
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pupnikok, who stole my n81007:08
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pupnikserves me right for not doing anything with it07:08
pupnik:(07:08
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zakkmwhat ?07:29
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Khertan_n810hi !09:00
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Khertan_n810 is there a way to detect why an app isn t launch by menu ?09:00
Khertan_n810maybe an error in .desktop09:01
Khertan_n810or service file09:01
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Khertan_n810but i don t see it09:01
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Khertan_n810and don t see anything interesting with dbus-monitor09:02
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RST38hmoo all09:16
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Khertan_n810Hi !09:54
Khertan_n810maybe someone can explain me how an app is launch by the menu09:55
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Khertan_n810?09:55
Khertan_n810as i do thing the same as every other app but it doesn t seems to work09:56
Khertan_n8102hours to make application09:56
Khertan_n8102day to tweak desktop file09:57
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* Khertan_n810 is tired ... bye09:59
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camel_liuhi, everybody.10:22
camel_liuI met error "libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libSDL.la'" after install SDL-ttf and SDL-net.10:24
camel_liuautogen.sh and configure is ended successful, but make errors10:24
camel_liuthere's not libSDL.la in that  directory.10:25
Stskeepsthen you need to install libsdl :P10:25
camel_liuBut the game program runs well before I try to add ttf font in it.10:26
Stskeepsmmkay10:27
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camel_liuDo I need to install libsdl again?10:28
Stskeepspossibly10:28
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camel_liulibsdl1.2-dev is already the newest version.10:30
camel_liulibsdl1.2 is already the newest version.10:31
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Stskeepsk10:32
camel_liuI installed libSDL_ttf and libSDL_net, and there're .la files for them. But ther're not .la files for libSDL, libSDL_mixer and libSDL_image, which are installed by default.10:33
camel_liuhow can I generate the .la files ?10:34
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camel_liuWhen I make my program before I add some ttf support in it, no error found10:36
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Stskeepsjohnx: heh, the new batch of people trying ubuntu ended with same conclusion as we did about it, even though it seems complete, not all packages are there10:49
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JaffaMorning, all11:17
X-FadeHi..11:18
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Stskeepsmorning Jaffa11:24
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KhertanMorning all !12:04
Khertansomeone can explain me how the application menu launch an application ?12:05
Khertanas i ve done thing like my other app12:05
Khertanbut i'm not able to make mTasks be launched by the application menu12:06
Khertanif i understand it use dbus to launch an app12:06
Khertanreading the .desktop file12:06
Khertanand executing something like : dbus-launch /usr/bin/mtasks12:06
Khertanwhere the bin path is the one which is specified in the .desktop or .service file ...12:07
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inzdbus-launch has actually nothing to do with this12:11
Khertanah ....12:11
Khertanand how maemo menu launch an app ?12:12
inzBut if there is X-Osso-Service -field in the .desktop file, then it tries to send a message to the service12:12
Khertanok12:12
inzAnd D-Bus daemon starts up the service, if not running and a .service file is present for the service12:12
Khertanhum ...12:13
Khertanand dbus try to launch it how ?12:13
Khertancan i reproduce the thing under xterm ?12:13
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DanielWhi12:18
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DanielWwhen i try to connect to an wpa2 peap network it says "authentification failed"   is there something to get a more verbose error mesage12:19
inzKhertan, I 'spose the daemon just reads the exec path from the .service file, does fork()/exec() and waits for the program to register the service name12:19
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StskeepsDanielW: eduoram or the likes?12:20
Stskeepseduroam, i mean12:20
DanielWstraind`: yes a similar network in my university12:21
DanielWStskeeps:12:21
Stskeepshttp://www.valeriovalerio.org/?p=182 might be a direction then12:21
X-FadeDanielW: http://www.valeriovalerio.org/?p=18212:21
X-FadeAh ;)12:21
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Stskeeps(jaiku subscriptions do come in handy occasionally :P)12:22
DanielWok thanks. already googled but didn't find anything helpful12:22
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camel_liuDoes anyone know what this means: libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libSDL.la'12:26
camel_liuWhat is .la files?12:26
DanielWStskeeps and X-Fade, thank you, got it to work :-)12:28
X-FadeDanielW: That is great news ;)12:29
StskeepsDanielW: ta - i might try that at my uni's eduroam too then12:29
Khertaninz: strange ... i still don't understand why my prog isn't launch by menu and work well launching it manually12:30
Khertaninz: thx for your help12:31
lardmanmorning12:31
inzKhertan, does your program register the d-bus service name (in time)?12:31
Khertanit should :)12:31
camel_liuHow can I get libSDL.la file?12:36
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ping?12:37
lardmancamel_liu: why are you statically linking?12:41
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camel_liuWhat should I do? I just try following a sample.12:42
camel_liuHow can I control the link type?12:43
camel_liuI'm a freshman in maemo12:46
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RST38hreMOO12:51
lardmancamel_liu: usually you have to explicitly ask to be statically linked12:52
lardmanjust do -lSDL in your flags and see what happens12:52
camel_liuok, let me try12:53
StsN800hmm, any good wiki editors for maemo? editing maemo.org wiki is a nightmare on a n80012:54
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joueur_hi.... how can i disable serial console and usb-host-mode... i think it is drain my battery...12:59
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camel_liulardman, Could you help me see the configure.ac file? http://pastebin.ca/124473013:01
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RST38husb-host-mode can be switched on and off using a settings applet (available from Extras)13:01
RST38hbut it is off by default13:01
StsN800that sounds kinda unreasonable. well, usb host with device attached without poweredusb hub obviously..13:01
camel_liuI don't know what lead the error.13:01
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lardmancamel_liu: looks like that should be ok13:03
lardmanor are you getting an error when you run configure?13:03
camel_liuneither autogen.sh nor configure13:04
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camel_liuecho $? returns 013:05
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lardmancamel_liu: well just try to compile it, it looks like it looks for the SDL libs and will link against them dynamically13:06
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camel_liubut make returns error: http://pastebin.ca/124473413:09
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lardmanah, I see what you mean now13:10
camel_liu?13:11
lardmando you have libSDL.so.x.x.x somewhere?13:11
camel_liuyes, I have libSDL-1.2.so.0.7.1 and libSDL-1.2.so.013:12
camel_liuin target's /usr/lib/13:13
lardmanok, you either need to change the name it's trying to link against, or symlink that file to the expected name13:13
lardmanI don't know what the usual way is13:13
RST38hfirst13:14
lardmanlibSDL-1.2.so.0 will be linked by -lSDL-1.213:14
RST38hsymlinking is a hack13:14
joueur_RST38h: and do you know , how can i disable serial console? i am looking google, but i can't find anything...13:14
RST38hactually, symlinking to libSDL.so is ok13:14
lardmanunless it's part of the SDL install procedure, I don't know13:14
RST38hjoueur: I did not even know Maemo had a serial console13:14
camel_liuRST38h, symlinking to libSDL.so, how?13:15
lardmancd /usr/lib; ln -s libSDL-1.2.so.0 libSDL.so.013:15
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joueur_RST38h: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/Flasher_tool_usage/  .... but i don't know how can i that set to disable...13:17
camel_liuwhy this error happen to my program? I tried other programms using libSDL, making them did not launch any error13:17
lardmancamel_liu: there may be an SDL pkg file which should be used and this one doesn't?13:18
lardmanperhaps look at the configure.ac files for the ones which compile correctly?13:18
camel_liucan I remove libSDL, and then install it again?13:19
lardmanyou can, but it won't make any odds I wouldn't think13:19
camel_liuCan this way correct the problem?13:19
lardmanapparently not, as other code has compiled ok with it installed....13:19
camel_liulardman, I paste a configure.ac which can make correctly, please have a look: http://pastebin.ca/124474213:21
camel_liuI cannot find any differences between it and mine.13:21
lardmanwhat do these give you?: sdl-config --cflags and sdl-config --libs13:22
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camel_liuI also have these in my configure.ac.13:24
lardmanwhat values do they return when you run them on the command line?13:24
camel_liu[sbox-DIABLO_X86: ~/spot5] > sdl-config --cflags13:25
camel_liu-I/usr/include/SDL -D_REENTRANT13:25
camel_liu[sbox-DIABLO_X86: ~/spot5] > sdl-config --libs13:25
camel_liu-L/usr/lib -lSDL -lpthread13:25
lardmanhmm13:26
lardmanso it's got the wrong name13:26
lardmanodd13:26
lardmanno idea, unless the other code you're talking about doesn't actually link against libSDL itself?13:26
camel_liuwhat correct name should be?13:26
lardmanwell the file has a different name to that the linker wants13:27
RST38hhttp://electoral-vote.com/ Hohohoho!13:27
lardmani.e. libSDL-1.2.x.x.x vs -lSDL (aka libSDL.so.x.x.x)13:27
RST38hIt is a wonder how much the crisis shrunk Dumbfuckistan's boundaries.13:28
lardmanis that a running count?13:28
camel_liuI have libSDL.so, libSDL-1.2.so.0 and libSDL-1.2.so.0.7.1. How can I fix this problem?13:28
lardmanis libSDL.so a symlink that you just created?13:29
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camel_liuI do not know how to create a symlink.13:29
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lardmancamel_liu: I told you a few lines back13:30
lardmanln -s13:30
lardmananyway, it ought to compile now13:30
camel_liuthis one?  cd /usr/lib; ln -s libSDL-1.2.so.0 libSDL.so.013:31
camel_liuCould you kindly tell me what does this mean?13:31
lardmanyes that one13:31
lardmancd changes directory13:31
lardmanln -s creates a symlink from the first file to the second13:32
camel_liuI know cd13:32
lardmandid you run that command?13:32
RST38hMay I suggest getting a reading a beginner's guide to Unix?13:32
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camel_liubut I do not have the file: libSDL.so.013:33
RST38hBecause explaining what "ln -s" is may be somewhat ridiculous13:33
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lardmancamel_liu: you appear to have a libSDL.so so the Makefile should now work13:36
camel_liuI run ls -s, but make is still error13:37
lardmanln -s not ls -s13:37
camel_liuyes, ln -s libSDL-1.2.so.0 libSDL.so.013:37
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lardmanok, what's the error now?13:37
lardmansame one?13:37
camel_liuyes, same13:37
lardmandoes the linker link to .so.X or does it require .so alone - anyone else?13:38
MekI think ld only uses .so; the .so.X files are used when running stuff, not when linking13:39
lardmanok, thanks13:39
camel_liuthere's not the second file : libSDL.so.013:39
lardmancamel_liu: you need to create another symlink then: ln -s libSDL.so.0 libSDL.so13:39
camel_liu[sbox-DIABLO_X86: /usr/lib] > ln -s libSDL.so.0 libSDL.so13:40
camel_liuln: `libSDL.so': File exists13:40
lardmanodd13:40
camel_liu?13:40
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lardmanapparently someone else (like the deb) created it for you13:40
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lardmanwhat does "ls -rtl libSDL.so" give you?13:41
camel_liuI manually install SDL_ttf and SDL_net.13:41
BoldenGoyhello everybody. i am looking for someone who is familiar with maemo mapper's database backend. can anybody please help me?13:41
camel_liulibSDL.so -> libSDL-1.2.so.0.7.113:41
lardmandoes libSDL-1.2.so.0.7.1 exist?13:42
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camel_liuyes13:42
lardmanok, in that case the error must be for a different lib13:43
lardmanor is it still asking for libSDL.la?13:43
camel_liulibtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libSDL.la'13:43
lardmanI'm out of ideas, sorry13:44
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camel_liuThanks a lot anyway13:45
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lardmansorry we didn't achieve anything, perhaps someone else will have an ideas13:45
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camel_liulardman, When delete SDL_ttf and SDL_net from configure.ac and my sources, make can ended without error14:03
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camel_liuCould you explain this?14:04
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camel_liulardman?14:07
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lardmanno, not really :)14:21
lardmansome wonder of linkers and libraries14:22
lardmananyone else have an idea?14:22
camel_liuSDL ttf and net have .la files in /usr/lib14:22
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lardmanand .so files too?14:24
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camel_liuyes14:25
lardmanstrange, I wonder if it will work if you remove/rename the .a files14:27
lardmanand put back the SDL_* stuff you removed from the configure.ac file14:27
camel_liuThere're libSDL_ttf.la, libSDL_ttf.so, libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0 and libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0.6.314:28
camel_liuand libSDL_ttf.a14:28
camel_liurename libSDL_ttf.a?14:28
lardmanyeah, rename the .la files, tack .old or something on the end14:29
lardmanand rename the .a file too14:29
lardmanin fact only one of those should have been installed14:29
johnxdid you install libsdlttf from source or from a .deb?14:31
camel_liuno, I use:fakeroot apt-get install libsdl-ttf2.0-dev14:32
camel_liuand fakeroot apt-get install libsdl_ttf2.0-014:33
camel_liuDo they collide?14:33
lardmandoesn't matter, apt-get will sort that out14:34
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johnxthat seems right.14:35
camel_liuDone! make without error!14:35
lardmangood good14:36
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camel_liujust rename .a and .la14:36
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camel_liulardman, could you tell me something under the renaming?14:36
lardmansure14:37
lardmanwhat do you want to know?14:37
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camel_liujust a moment, the program failed to run14:38
camel_liuFatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)14:38
camel_liuSegmentation fault (core dumped)14:38
lardmanwell that's probably nothing to do with the build process14:39
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camel_liulardman, have any other idea?14:47
lardmanyou'll need to look at the source probably and see what's caused it to fail14:48
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camel_liuthis is not relation to the build process? just regarding source code?14:50
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lardmanI don't think so, though using a different version of SDL might get rid of the problem if it's an SDL bug15:07
camel_liuHow can I use a relative font path instead of absolute one like this:   /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-bitstream-vera/Vera.ttf in X86 target?15:07
lardmanno idea from me15:07
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camel_liuhave a good lunch. It does work. After lunch, please give some knowledge about renaming .a and .la.15:10
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LoCusFwhere is the zImage of the kernel running in N810?15:24
johnxwhere on the tablet or on the internet?15:24
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LoCusFtablet15:26
johnxit's on a partition of the NAND15:26
johnxI don't remember which one though15:26
johnx/dev/mtdblockN where N is 1-415:26
LoCusFonly 4 is mounted now ..15:27
LoCusFI mean mtdblock415:27
johnxwell, then that's the rootfs :)15:27
johnxinitfs is one of the others15:27
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LoCusFhmm I think the internet source is better15:31
johnx~flashing15:31
infobotrumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware15:31
johnxit's part of the downloadable .bin file15:32
johnxyou can use the linux flasher to separate out the zImage15:32
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, pong.15:34
LoCusFflasher -u?15:34
GeneralAntilles~flasher15:36
infobotmethinks flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher15:36
GeneralAntillesLoCusF, flasher-3.0 -F <FIASCO image> --flash-only=kernel -f -R15:37
johnxLoCusF, yeah, I guess flasher -u looks right15:37
LoCusFyep15:38
LoCusFit just won't boot in qemu15:38
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: old wiki is dead and redirects are in place.15:38
GeneralAntillesWoo15:39
GeneralAntillesThanks, X-Fade! :)15:39
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/ are both redirecting to http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page15:42
lopzhola15:42
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yes, because you put the lowercase urls in the wiki..15:42
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Which they weren't ;)15:43
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GeneralAntillesOh15:43
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: So I had to manually look them up to fix :)15:43
GeneralAntillesAh15:43
X-FadeIIRC only the first 3 links were affected?15:44
GeneralAntillesSeems to be just the flashing pages.15:45
X-FadeYeah, I think they were imported from mediawiki to midgard ;)15:45
* GeneralAntilles is groggy and confused.15:46
aquatix!coffee GeneralAntilles15:46
GeneralAntillesTea for me, thanks.15:47
aquatixah, works for me :)15:47
aquatix!tea GeneralAntilles15:47
aquatix;)15:47
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, OK, do you want to complete http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories ?15:55
dnearyHi15:55
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I'm thinking of publishing about the proposal for policy change and then close phase 1 of this task.15:55
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X-FadeAnd after that split the rest off to Fremantle categories?15:56
dnearyGeneralAntilles, X-Fade: Did redirects get done for the pages in http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Kill_the_old_wiki#Category:Midgard_wiki ?15:56
GeneralAntillesWe'll pick up http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Packaging_policy_proposed_changes for the next Sprint15:56
GeneralAntillesdneary, click some. :D15:56
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dnearyCurrently they're all going to [[Main Page]]15:56
dnearyFor me, anyway15:56
X-Fadedneary: didn't touch those.15:56
dnearySimilar for http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/ and http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithmacosx/15:57
GeneralAntillesAh, yeah, that list was supposed to get redirects too.15:57
dnearyJust wondering whether it was a local issue, a bug or some un-added redirects15:57
X-Fadedneary: please read scroll back ;)15:57
dnearyX-Fade: So now I know - not a bug :)15:58
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, anyway, yeah, the task for the October sprint is done, methinks.15:58
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GeneralAntillesdneary, why'd you switch the PAN link to an OS2006 page?16:03
dnearyI switched it to the generic Bluetooth page16:03
dnearyWhich is where PAN should be16:04
GeneralAntillesThen somebody needs to update Bluetooth networking first.16:04
GeneralAntillesBecause, currently, it's useless to anybody using recent software.16:04
dnearyYes, I would agree16:06
dnearyWhat does PAN mean?16:07
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dnearyprivate area network?16:07
GeneralAntillesYes, I know, it's a blind acronym to users16:07
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GeneralAntillesPersonal Area Network16:07
GeneralAntillesIt's adhoc with Bluetooth, more or less.16:07
GeneralAntillesI'd rather turn the Bluetooth networking page into an index page that points to Bluetooth DUN or PAN16:08
GeneralAntillesSince having it all on one page is a bit overwhelming.16:08
dnearyDUN or PAN don't mean anything to most people16:08
dnearyNetworking does16:09
GeneralAntillesBluetooth networking can be used for x, y, and z. There are several methods for networking.16:09
GeneralAntillesBluetooth DUN can is a and can be used for x and y16:09
GeneralAntillesBluetooth PAN is b and can be used for z16:10
GeneralAntillesWith links to the main articles.16:10
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: added some polish to the page, - thanks for the work done so far16:11
GeneralAntillesSure thing16:11
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mgedmincomplaint: modest won't let me change my IMAP server hostname16:11
mgedminlike, WTF?16:12
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: think i'll comb through it tonight and then shake the beehive a bit about it16:13
GeneralAntillesI'm gonna make a second run-through16:13
GeneralAntillesI'm not really satisfied with the boot-process description.16:13
Stskeepsk16:14
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johnxmgedmin, wow....I must admit I didn't even believe you until I checked it myself16:14
* Stskeeps switched to claws16:15
johnxreally? what pushed you over?16:16
Stskeepsmodest locking up, not retrieving mails, etc16:17
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johnxah, right. I guess I do remember you talking about that.16:18
dnearyGeneralAntilles: I'm trying to refactor this article, but to be honest, I find it very confusing16:20
GeneralAntillesdneary, that's why I just skipped it and went with the individual articles.16:20
dnearyIndividual articles that don't have titles which are relevant to most people16:21
GeneralAntillesBluetooth networking is . . . DUN is . . . (link to Bluetooth DUN) PAN is . . . (link to PAN)16:21
* mgedmin is surprised not to find a bug about it16:21
GeneralAntillesThat's why you turn the Bluetooth networking page into a page like Bluetooth16:21
* mgedmin thinks the sourceforge-inspired user interface at garage.maemo.org sucks big time16:21
GeneralAntillesThen they land there, figure out what they actually need and go to it.16:22
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, why are you using Garage?16:22
GeneralAntillesNot for Modest, I hope.16:22
* mgedmin blinks16:22
GeneralAntillesAs its bugs are tracked in Bugzilla.16:22
mgedminNOOOOOOOOOO16:22
mgedmin*headdesk*16:22
mgedminso I go to modest.garage.maemo.org, which is the project page, right?16:22
mgedminI search for a 'bug tracker' under development16:22
mgedminall I find is a 'garage project page'16:23
GeneralAntillesAh, well.16:23
mgedminI go there, I find a working bug tracker16:23
mgedminI submit a bug16:23
GeneralAntillesBug sergio about that.16:23
mgedminwhich of the steps should've pointed me to bugzilla?16:23
mgedminhm16:23
GeneralAntillesWell, it's bundled software16:23
GeneralAntillesand bundled software is either 3rd-party or tracked in Bugzilla.16:23
mgedminmaybe I should've though "I want to submit a bug about OS2008" instead of "I want to submit a bug about Modest"16:24
mgedmina little knowledge is a dangerous thing :/16:24
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* GeneralAntilles starts working on the package categories PSA.16:39
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: PSA?16:43
GeneralAntillesHehe, apparently that "report abuse" button doesn't lead to a form.16:43
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ignore the abuse I reported on myself if you see it. :P16:43
GeneralAntillesPublic Service Announcement16:43
GeneralAntillesTell everybody about the new categories and about how the transition will work.16:44
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ah, I was typing up something too. Let's spam them ;)16:44
X-FadeBtw, check your karma.16:44
tekojoHi16:44
GeneralAntillesHehe16:44
X-Fadehi tekojo.16:45
Khertanlol16:45
Khertanhi !16:45
* GeneralAntilles claims the title "Package categories and you"16:45
tekojoAs there seems to be a lot of people around, I'd like to share some details on the weekend break16:45
tekojoJust talked to the ISP16:45
tekojoAnd the servers should be up all night (EEST), so the US people should expect a fairly normal weekend16:46
tekojoEurope can take a weekend off16:46
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tekojoI'll and comments to the announcement16:47
X-Fadetekojo: Will you be able to make the meeting? Or at least a part of it?16:48
X-FadeIt will probably be from 22:00 until 00:00 EEST.16:48
tekojoX-Fade: Sorry no, iaido training always Saturday 18-20 UTC16:48
tekojoAnd I can't join in the car :-)16:49
GeneralAntillesSaturday?16:49
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tekojoMight make it around 22:45 EEST16:49
X-FadeMeeting is today ;)16:49
tekojoGA: what's saturday?16:49
GeneralAntillesIaido training, apparently.16:49
tekojoYes, Saturday too, but that's earlier and I rarely make it on Saturday (family)16:50
GeneralAntillesSo, s/Saturday/Tuesday/ ?16:50
tekojoBut anyway, I'll try to make it around 20:45 UTC to the meeting16:51
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X-Fadetekojo: Ok, great.16:52
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tekojoGA: how did you guess the Saturday?16:52
GeneralAntilles[9:48am] <tekojo> X-Fade: Sorry no, iaido training always Saturday 18-20 UTC16:52
X-FadeMind reading :)16:52
GeneralAntillesAlternative answer: I've installed a GPS tracker in the back of your skull. :P16:53
tekojoOops :-D16:53
tekojoOr you know the dojo site address :-)16:53
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I guess it would be better to stagger the posting of these announcements so we stay on the front page of Planet for as long as possible.16:54
X-Fadetekojo: Probably one of those? http://www.iaido.fi/Iaido/clubs.html :)16:55
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Sure. If you talk about the categories and AM then I will talk about changing the policy.16:55
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tekojoX-Fade: no, for weird reasons relating to the Japanese loving federations, I practise under the finnish kendo federation16:56
X-Fadetekojo: Ah, well it was just a google guess for me ;)16:56
X-Fadetekojo: Other guess dojo from Jose Martinez?16:57
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tekojoX-Fade: but we do talk to the iaido federation people (and they do good iaido too)16:57
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tekojoX-Fade: getting closer :-) But I don't think Jose can be considered to be associated to only one dojo, he's the highest ranking iaidoka in Finland16:58
mimshitahello! I have a question on compiling gstreamer for arm target...the config file returns a strange error, can anyone help me?16:58
X-Fadetekojo: Pretty funny what google can do in terms of social engineering ;)16:59
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tekojoX-Fade: yep, it's a funny tool17:00
tekojoBut I need to cycle home. Bye!17:00
X-Fadetekojo: You were in Poule 1 of the European championships? :)17:00
tekojoX-Fade: Yes, and l lost my second round match due to a stupid technical mistake, would have otherwise been fourth17:01
X-Fadetekojo: Nice!17:01
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tekojoX-Fade: well, it's a marginal art :-)17:02
tekojoBut now I really need to go, bye!17:02
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X-FadeFins and marshall arts :)17:03
X-Fadehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/bergie/2998952960/17:03
GeneralAntillesHehe17:03
GeneralAntillesSo you're saying we shouldn't pick a fight with them at the next Summit? ;)17:03
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X-FadeProbably not ;)17:03
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mimshitais anyone able to give me some pointers?:D17:05
lardmanmimshita: pastebin the error and we'll see17:05
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mimshita./configure17:08
mimshitachecking nano version... 0 (release)17:08
mimshitachecking build system type... arm-unknown-linux-gnu17:08
mimshitachecking host system type... arm-unknown-linux-gnu17:08
mimshitachecking for a BSD-compatible install... /scratchbox/tools/bin/install -c17:08
mimshitachecking whether build environment is sane... yes17:08
mimshitachecking for gawk... gawk17:08
mimshitachecking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes17:08
mimshitachecking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no17:08
mimshitachecking for style of include used by make... GNU17:08
mimshitachecking for gcc... gcc17:09
mimshitachecking for C compiler default output file name... a.out17:09
mgedmin!paste17:09
mimshitachecking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs.17:09
mimshitaIf you meant to cross compile, use `--host'.17:09
mgedmin~paste17:09
mimshitaSee `config.log' for more details.17:09
infobotfrom memory, paste is http://rafb.net/paste/, or see also pb17:09
lardmanor17:10
lardman~pastebin17:10
infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste17:10
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mimshita http://rafb.net/p/wCO3aP99.html17:11
mimshitasorry guys, didn't know, it has been a long time since I use IRC:S17:11
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lardmanprobably just a configure script error/assumption17:13
RST38hehlo all17:14
lardmanlook at the test which is performed to see if the conpiler works17:14
lardmanhi RST38h17:14
RST38hmoo, lardman17:14
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lardmanmimshita: what CFLAGS are you trying to use btw?17:15
mimshitalardman:not using any flags:P17:16
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mimshitalardman: but I should use these: '--prefix=/usr --disable-gst-debug --disable-static' the catch is i do not know where to sick them17:17
lardmanok, just that if you try to use the arm1136 mcpu flags, qemu can't run the resulting code17:17
lardmanah17:17
lardmanwell do something like this:17:17
lardmanCFLAGS="your flags here" ./configure17:18
lardmanactually17:18
lardmanno they are configure flags17:18
lardmanpass them after configure17:18
mimshitaok, I'll try that17:18
* lardman is half asleep17:18
lcuk2nothin new there :P17:18
lardmanyeah, bacon sarnie would sort it out ;)17:19
lcuk2yeah, i was tempted today to ask for bacon topping at pizzahut17:19
lardmanlol17:20
mimshitalandman17:20
lardmanhow was Bond, am going this evening17:20
lardmanlcuk2: +?17:20
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mimshitalardman: still not working but it gives a different error now http://rafb.net/p/pm1YOR23.html17:20
lcuk2lardman, bond was amazing17:21
lcuk2but make sure you get there early so you get decent seats17:21
lcuk2if you are too close you will get neck ache17:21
lardmanwe've booked17:21
lcuk2i booked as well, but not specific seats or vip box or anything17:21
lardmanmimshita: again, see what the test is in configure17:21
lardmanmimshita: presuming that the toolchain does actually work for a basic hello world?17:22
lcuk2we were near the front, its a movie where they use the full scene17:22
lcuk2very expansive - we were so close it was more like imax17:22
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/community/council/view/1225812124/17:22
lardmanlcuk2: ah ok, our cinema does specific seats so that should be ok; hopefully quieter too now it's in the week17:22
lcuk2yeah should be - i think they had it on about 10 screens at weekend17:22
lcuk2i couldnt wait to see it though17:23
lardmanGeneralAntilles: cool17:23
GeneralAntillesYou guys book specific seats over there?17:23
GeneralAntillesBizarre17:23
lardmanlcuk2: I watched the first one yesterday as the next is supposed to follow on17:23
lardmanGeneralAntilles: depends on the cinema17:23
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Sure we do, just like an airplane ;)17:23
lardmanGeneralAntilles: but yes nowadays17:23
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lcuk2GeneralAntilles, i couldv booked a VIP box - they have perfect view, big comfy chairs isle service and away from the riff raff17:23
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.vat19.com/blog/movie%20theater%20stadium%20seating%20loner.jpg <- open seating17:24
lardmanX-Fade: you obviously go higher class than I do (Easy-scrummage-for-a-seat-jet)17:24
lardmanX-Fade: no beer in the cinemas over here though :(17:24
lcuk2lardman! yuou get seats , i have to STAND on the wing17:24
lcuk2lardman, im surei n the vip boxes you can17:24
X-Fadelardman: everything other than easjet and ryan air then... ;)17:24
lcuk2bbl17:25
notcoolbuthothi, does someone know why a gui application looks according to the maemo theme when launched from the eclipse, but gives an osso_initialize() failed when launched from the console in scratchbox17:28
notcoolbuthot?17:28
notcoolbuthotit still works from the console but with a ugly default theme, not the maemo one17:28
lcuk2lardman: What are Delux screenings?17:28
lcuk2Prices includes comfy chairs (lots of leg room, arm rests lift up, reclining seats) and bar service (normal age restrictions apply). Reserved seating. This is only available at selected Cineworld Cinemas17:28
lcuk2cya later17:28
lardmanlcuk2: not at my local (don't have to drive to it) one unfortunately17:29
mimshitalardman: http://rafb.net/p/ohGXsu57.html17:29
mimshitalardman: config.log result17:29
lardmanlines 3 and 4 are your answer17:30
lardmanyou didn't pass them in CFLAGS did you?17:30
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mimshitalardman: no i didn't the flags i passed where: '--prefix=/usr --disable-gst-debug --disable-static'17:37
mimshitaI followed this howto http://www.linuxrising.org/gstreamer-maemo-howto.html17:37
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mimshitalardman: I compiled the hello.c and hello.cc from the packages/ dir, and they compiled well17:38
lardmancool17:39
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lardmanlet me have a quick look at that doc17:39
mimshitalardman: the problem comes when i tryed to run them, it returned an error: "mmap: Permission denied"17:39
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qwerty12mimshita, using intrepid ibex by any chance?17:40
lardmanso what are you building atm? liboil?17:40
lardmanthe --disable-gst-debug --disable-static is only for the gstreamer packages17:40
mimshitaliboil17:40
mimshitaqwerty12: yup... a bad choice I presume...17:41
lardmanmimshita: remove the gstreamer related bits for that build17:42
lardmane.g. "./configure --prefix=/usr" is enough for liboil17:42
qwerty12mimshita, reduced the mmap value? Heh, add "vm.mmap_min_addr = 4096" to /etc/sysctl.conf (outside scratchbox) and run "sudo sysctl -p"  (outside scratchbox)17:43
mimshitalardman and qwerty12: ok, thanks!17:43
qwerty12I have to keep running sudo sysctl -p everytime I reboot so it reads that setting. In hardy, sysctl.conf was read automatically at boot :(17:44
mimshitadam...I gess the whole problem has to do with mmap...17:46
lardmanno17:46
mimshitaon config.log configure:3186: ./a.out mmap: Permission denied17:46
lardmanyour last error was to do with passing unsuitable args to configure17:46
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lardmanyeah, that's another error ;)17:46
mimshitayes:)17:46
mimshitai'm gonna change sysctl.conf now17:47
mimshitaqwerty12: the sysctl you are refering to is the Intrepid on, rigtht?17:48
qwerty12mimshita, yeah17:48
qwerty12You have to do the same thing for hardy too :/17:49
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mimshitaaleluia!:D17:50
qwerty12Yeah, I keep forgetting to run sysctl until configure spits that message that I can't run compiled programs :P17:50
mimshitalol, thanks a lot guys! it has been a hell of a week just to make a streamer for N800:P17:51
lardmanyou should be able to apt-get the binary you know?17:52
mimshitai found info about it on the web, but never clear enought to point: "Oh, this is the problem!"17:52
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mimshitai should...but for some reason I can't17:54
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mimshitaprobably because i don't have the correct repository in sources.list17:54
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=site:repository.maemo.org+nano17:54
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X-Fadehttp://communitizer.blogspot.com/2008/11/packaging-policy-change-proposal.html17:59
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GeneralAntillesHrm, there's no link to a list of Thanks in karma.18:02
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/post_thanks.php?do=findthanks&u=$USER_ID will work18:02
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: No, because we don't have a search url?18:02
X-FadeHmm ok, let me try to add that link..18:02
* qwerty12 loves ITT thanks integration *grin*18:03
lardmanoo, my discussion karma has suddenly jumped from 8 to 34 ;)18:04
* GeneralAntilles wishes there were a link to the user list page on some of the karma pages.18:06
GeneralAntillesMaybe change the breadcrumb from maemo.org > Profile to maemo.org > Profile > $USER_NAME with Profile linking to the list.18:07
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X-FadeThanks link added.18:12
X-FadeNow is it ITT? or itT or...18:12
GeneralAntillesReggie says "itT"18:12
GeneralAntillesQuim says "ITt"18:12
X-Fadeok.18:12
GeneralAntillesI'd go with Reggie's, personally.18:12
GeneralAntillesNokia prefers capitalizing Internet Tablet, I guess.18:12
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X-FadeLinks changed, now I need to find out where the headers are specified ;)18:14
KhertanOuch ...18:15
Khertanafter 6 months of no move18:15
Khertani'm now under murray in karma list18:15
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Khertanhuhu18:15
X-FadeKhertan: Blog more ;)18:15
Khertanhéhé18:16
Khertanyep18:16
Khertanbut if i blog i ll get less karma18:16
Khertanwith burries ... for my poor english ;)18:16
GeneralAntillesPsh18:16
Khertannow ... i ll make some other stupid widget home applet ... :)18:16
Khertan:)18:16
GeneralAntillesThe group-think only buries off-topic or idiotic crap. :P18:16
KhertanHomeDoNothing18:16
GeneralAntillesYeah, spam applications to Extras.18:17
GeneralAntillesThat's a sure-fire way to karma whore.18:17
Khertanyep18:17
Khertani see that18:17
GeneralAntillesKhertan's new line of Hildon widget home applets.18:17
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GeneralAntillesHomeRadioButton18:17
GeneralAntillesHomeCheckBox18:17
GeneralAntillesHomeOK18:17
GeneralAntillesHomeCancel18:17
KhertanHomeDontClick18:17
GeneralAntillesHomeBigRedButton18:17
GeneralAntillesThat could actually be kinda fun. :P18:17
Khertanhum ... it s depends18:18
Khertancan i have my own section for apps manager ?18:18
Khertan:)18:18
GeneralAntillesuser/desktop18:18
Khertanuser/khertan18:18
|rt|needs a HomeFinalAnswer button18:18
Khertan?18:18
X-FadeThere you go ;)18:18
GeneralAntillesuser/Khertan is so much cooler than you fools18:18
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KhertanHomeFinalAnswer ... what it should do.18:18
Khertan?18:19
|rt|it's like yes to all when you go to delete something18:19
GeneralAntillesNeed a War Games button.18:19
X-FadeHmm I almost drop of the first page. Need to blog more ;)18:19
KhertanX-fade ... you could also change calc method :) will be faster :)18:19
X-FadeIt seems I don't do enough Karm Whoring..18:20
GeneralAntillesKhertan, do a promotional campaign with Staples and make some money. ;)18:20
GeneralAntillesHomeEasyButton®18:20
KhertanStaples ?18:20
X-Fadeif ($user=='xfade') karma += 10k ;)18:20
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.staples.com/sbd/cre/marketing/easybutton/index.html18:20
GeneralAntilles18:21
|rt|hehe i have one of those buttons...they used to sell them at the store...it says that was easy when you press it....doesn't work like it does in the commercials unfortnatly18:21
GeneralAntillesThe tasks are looking a lot better this Sprint.18:21
KhertanGeneralAntilles: i don't understand what is the purpose of this things18:21
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|rt|Khertan: it was just a marketing gimick18:22
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: color="LightGreen" + DONE :)18:22
Khertanfrom what i understand it s hardware shortcut ...18:22
Khertanhuhu stupid marketing18:23
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMPF-XMyN7g18:23
KhertanItt thanks 8018:23
Khertanhu ?18:23
Khertanthis is really 80 itt thanks ?18:23
GeneralAntillessqrt(thanks) * 818:23
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Khertansqrt ?18:24
Khertanstrange18:24
qwerty12square root18:24
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I'd say reducing external repositories is probably done for this sprint.18:24
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I think it is a long-term task.18:24
Khertanqwerty12: i understand sqrt ... it s trivial for a dev :)18:25
|rt|this commercial with the easy button was better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NojiCsZQSr818:25
Khertanwhat i found strange is the calc :)18:25
qwerty12Khertan, ah, sorry :)18:25
GeneralAntillesThe ball's not really in your court anymore, anyway.18:25
X-FadeKhertan: That is to limit mega karma whoring ;)18:25
GeneralAntillesThe GeneralAntilles Solution ;)18:25
X-FadeBut still gives a little bit of growth if you get more and more thanks..18:25
KhertanX-Fade: i don't make critics ...18:25
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Khertanjust never think about how to calc something like that with limitations ...18:26
Khertanso ... this mean i ve got around 100 Thanks ... on itt18:27
Khertanouch ...18:27
RST38hWhy sqrt and not log? =)18:27
Khertan:)18:27
Khertanthis is high18:27
Khertani mean for me :)18:27
RST38hbtw, gentlemen, does it mean that itt karma calc is finally enabled?18:28
* GeneralAntilles only gets 300 with 1400 Thanks! :(18:28
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yes.18:28
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: _only_ :)18:28
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/profile/view/generalantilles/18:28
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KhertanItt thanks 30118:29
Khertannice18:29
RST38hohshitmykarmawentup18:29
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RST38hI do not see itt karma though18:29
* qwerty12 doesn't mind getting 248 karma for 969 thanks. I need the boost, whatever it is :P18:29
RST38hno, itt karma is there but now I do not see bug reports karma18:29
johnxhaha...they removed both from my profile :)18:30
GeneralAntillesRST38h, have you reported any?18:30
johnxI guess they don't like the way I vote on bugs :D18:30
Khertanbe back in 5 min ... in the train18:30
GeneralAntillesYes.18:30
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GeneralAntillesRight, email differences, maybe?18:30
RST38hGeneral: joking? =)18:30
GeneralAntillesRST38h, brain fart.18:30
X-FadeI did a recount for itt karma, but not everything is done yet.18:30
RST38hgeneral: it was there before18:30
X-FadeSo it can be that your bugs karma isn't updated.18:30
GeneralAntillesAh18:30
RST38hX-Fade: Can I suggest listing karma components to the right of the total valus in profile/list ?18:30
X-FadeAnd a recalc wiped old info.18:30
X-FadeI had to get some fast results, so I could show it in the meeting ;)18:31
X-FadeThe rest will update over the coming day orso.18:31
X-FadeRST38h: They are there?18:32
RST38hX-Fade: no, just the total is there18:32
X-FadeRST38h: You can sort on it?18:32
RST38hyes, it looks like I can sort on it18:33
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Khertan_n810re18:36
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles18:37
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "October 08 sprint meeting - Today @ 20:00 UTC | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/"18:37
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -t 18:37
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles18:37
Khertan_n810so category is finalized for package section ?18:37
GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, yes.18:37
Khertan_n810or it s still a draft ?18:37
Khertan_n810great18:37
X-FadeKhertan_n810: Yes, but it not official until packaging policy has changed.18:37
GeneralAntillesGotta wait for the Application Manager to be updated before you start changing categories, though.18:37
Khertan_n810yep of course18:38
X-FadeAlthough it really does't hurt to change now ;)18:38
X-FadeBecause it is already a mess.18:38
Khertan_n810but i think of activated the thing that let you use only official section in py2deb18:38
Khertan_n810prepare it for the next release18:39
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Khertan_n810rahhhhh sorry for the topic change18:43
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Khertan_n810n810 in the pocket18:43
*** Khertan_n810 changes topic to "October 08 sprint meeting - Today @ 20:00 UTC | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/"18:43
Khertan_n810someone have an idea to help me to find why my app didn t launch from maemo application menu ?18:44
Khertan_n810i have revised 8 time desktop nd service file18:45
Khertan_n810a debug mode18:46
Khertan_n810or something like that ?18:46
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qwerty12Khertan_n810, Are you "registering" your app? I ripped this from sonata, this (afaik) is the python equivalent of osso_initialise: http://pastebin.com/m3c1426e618:48
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Khertan_n810not like that18:50
Khertan_n810but it works for my other apps18:50
* GeneralAntilles wonders whether mvo has started on the appropriate changes or whether we should put Patch Master yerga on the job. :D18:50
X-FadeI think we need a community 'gateway' delegate.18:52
GeneralAntillesGateway?18:52
X-FadeWith commit access.18:52
GeneralAntillesFor h-a-m?18:52
X-Fadeyes.18:52
GeneralAntillesAh, right.18:52
X-FadeSo there is not 20 people bombarding mvo ;)18:53
X-FadeAlthough we could create a 'go-crazy' branch for that ;)18:53
* GeneralAntilles fires another volley.18:54
Khertan_n810mvo ?18:55
Khertan_n810qwerty12: i ll try18:55
Khertan_n810qwerty12: but it s work for my other app simply by setting osso.context18:55
qwerty12:)18:55
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RST38hmoo qwerty19:01
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qwerty12arf RST38h19:01
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Stskeepswtf at some people.. i'm stand-in for the network admin on this dorm and because their switch was down and is a bit flakey, some guy talks about moving cos "it's too expensive" (they have flatrate 4/1mbit, no quotas, no traffic shaping, for less than 20$ a month)19:03
Stskeeps*shrugs* :P19:03
GeneralAntillesStab him in the eye.19:04
LinuxCodeflakey is the word19:04
LinuxCodenobody likes flakey19:04
GeneralAntillesNo, the word is love.19:04
LinuxCodehehe19:05
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LinuxCodebtw hi guys ;-} and gals19:05
Stskeepsyeah, but, flakey in the sense someone comes and bangs the switch on the side when it breaks down completely, without charging them $$ for service :P19:05
RST38hSts: Tell him that when I was a kid, we had to dial in with 2400bd modems and wait for 15 minutes until a line becomes free19:06
Stskeepsi told him when i moved to the dorm and blaster was raging, the net was -useless-19:06
Stskeeps:P19:06
RST38hSts: And the university dropped connection every three hours just to keep people from abusing it19:06
Stskeepsand what they have now is luxury problems19:06
LinuxCodetell him about £120 monthly phonebills19:06
LinuxCodelol19:06
LinuxCodeI used to ring up19:07
johnxoh how the times change :)19:07
Stskeepsmm, good old dialup19:07
GeneralAntillesdialup days were the worst19:07
LinuxCodeyeh19:07
Khertan_n810qwerty12: doesn t help :(19:07
johnxreally though, inet access at all used to be a "luxury" but now people rely on it19:07
RST38hSts: Also tell him that ayatollas will switch the internet off and make him wear a burkha, eventually19:07
dnearyGeneralAntilles: I disagree that Bluetooth PAN does exactly what it says on the tin19:07
derfNo, the days before there _was_ dialup were the worst.19:07
RST38hjohnx: I relied on it from the very beginning, never was luxury19:07
dnearyPAN = Private Area Network19:08
johnxRST38h, well, us here are on the bleeding edge for the most part. heh...I'm even getting cut a little bit by it :|19:08
GeneralAntillesdneary, on the tin?19:08
RST38hjohnx: infamous japanese phone UIs? =)19:09
dnearyGeneralAntilles: UK ad reference19:10
johnxRST38h, pandora actually. the phone UIs aren't *that* bad19:10
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dnearyLook up "does exactly what it says on the tin" in googol19:10
GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_area_network19:10
dnearyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Does_exactly_what_it_says_on_the_tin19:10
johnxRST38h, re phones: I'd rather have a crappy UI for AGPS that works, than a slick UI on a phone with no AGPS19:11
dnearyI don't think we should be using technical acronyms in wiki page names19:11
dnearyI think that that page should be called "Bluetooth networking"19:11
GeneralAntillesThen change it to Bluetooth_Personal_Area_Network19:11
RST38hjohnx: well, pandora is not out yet =)19:11
GeneralAntillesdneary, problem is, then the page is giant covering DUN and PAN.19:12
dnearyAlthough if we're being accurate it'd be "Bluetooth networking on Diablo"19:12
johnxRST38h, and it *might* not be out until January thanks to delays from their LCD provider19:12
Stskeepsjohnx: if the maemo reconstructed proposal falls to the ground, wouldn't it be a good roadmap for deblet? (i prefer it being maemo really, less work and more people interested.. :P)19:13
dnearyI think you can break out DUN under a link "Configuring dial-up networking over Bluetooth" that points to "Bluetooth dial-up networking"19:13
GeneralAntillesI would prefer not to put versions in titles.19:13
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dnearyBut job #1 is fix the Bluetooth networking page if it's broken, not create other pages19:13
dnearyI absolutely agree about not putting version names in page names19:14
johnxStskeeps, seems quite reasonable19:14
GeneralAntillesdneary, fix it if you want to.19:14
dnearyBut right now, "Bluetooth PAN" doesn't do what it says on the tin because it's Diablo specific19:14
GeneralAntillesI'm washing my hands of it.19:14
dnearyTo be better, the page should include instructions for doing PAN on older releases19:14
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: That sounds menacing...19:15
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dnearyMy goal is not to piss you off here.19:15
GeneralAntillesDUMMY connections weren't broken in Chinook.19:15
GeneralAntillesI'm not pissed off, I just don't care.19:15
GeneralAntillesI don't have a strong enough opinion either way to fix it myself19:16
GeneralAntillesso if somebody else wants to fix it, then I wont tell them how to paint the barn. ;)19:16
LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, hehe19:16
GeneralAntillesAs long as the information is accurate and up-to-date.19:16
GeneralAntillesdneary, what I mean to say is: I'm arguing over it for absolutely no reason. I actually don't care. Do whatever you think is right. ;)19:20
* Khertan_n810 is going crazy !!!!!!!!!!19:20
* GeneralAntilles gives Khertan_n810 some downers.19:20
Khertan_n8102 hours to code a soft19:20
Khertan_n810two day to try to understand why it doesn t launch from the menu19:21
StskeepsKhertan_n810: i've wasted several days on gtk compilation. that was fun :P19:21
Stskeepsyou learn by those experiences though19:21
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Khertan_n810no ... i only change name from the current working file for pygtkeditor,mcalendar and my other app19:22
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Khertan_n810but it doesn t work19:23
Khertan_n810i ll learn something if i could have log oor debug trace19:23
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* GeneralAntilles pokes at Maemo Reconstructed again.19:23
Khertan_n810when u understand why it doesn t work you can learn something19:24
Khertan_n810Reconstructed Again ?19:24
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed19:24
Stskeepsthat's the name for when the reconstruction fails, nokia goes bankrupt and we're stuck with our n8x0s ;)19:24
Stskeeps(reconstructed again)19:24
Stskeeps.. I have horrible jokes19:25
Khertan_n810yep19:25
Khertan_n810and i have horrible connection19:26
Khertan_n810page still loading19:26
Stskeepsoh, that's not always your connection's fault19:26
Stskeeps:P19:26
* Khertan_n810 think of rewriting the maemo menu itself 19:27
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Khertan_n810RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!19:30
GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810 is turning into the Incredible Hulk.19:30
Stskeepswho wouldn't after developing for a while for maemo? :P19:30
qwerty12Khertan_n810, when you do that, could you implement lockable desktop applets too? :P19:30
GeneralAntillesFremantle19:30
* Khertan_n810 will throw is tablet from the train window19:30
Khertan_n810s/is/his19:30
qwerty12Fuck Fremantle, it would be nice to have it now19:31
johnxalso, I want a pony19:31
Stskeepsqwerty12: i would love that feature too :P19:31
derfTWO ponies.19:31
Khertan_n810i just want to make my app laucnhable by the menu !19:31
qwerty12Meh, wanting lockable desktop applets is hardly asking for the world19:31
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Suggestions on my "Using PAN on older devices" paragraph, please?19:32
dnearyIt is possible to use PAN to share internet connections via PAN between two Nokia devices. However, on older devices it is recommended to use dial-up networking, since this is the normal menthod which smartphones use to share internet access over bluetooth.19:32
GeneralAntillesdial-up networking involves phone lines19:33
johnxKhertan_n810, I'm not all that familiar with the menu, but I remember people having problems that have to do with names of things not matching in different places19:33
GeneralAntillesBluetooth DUN (dial-up networking)19:33
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Khertan_n810johnx : name is ok i review it 20 time19:33
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GeneralAntillesHowever, on most cellphones, only Bluetooth DUN (Dial-Up Networking) is supported for tethering.19:34
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, can you section-title-ize this: Scripts to ease deployment and debugging built applications inside Scratchbox+rootstrap to emulated and actual devices. ?19:35
dnearyGeneralAntilles: It looks to me like the whole article is how to do this on the master device (the one sharing internet) not the tablet19:35
dneary"activate dund in /etc/default/bluez-utils on Debian"???19:36
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GeneralAntillesI don't think we need to cover PAN setup on other devices.19:36
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GeneralAntilless/PAN/networking/19:36
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I don't think we need to cover networking setup on other devices.19:36
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: Deployment and debugging support scripts maybe19:37
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, for example: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed#SDK_.28developer_kit_for_the_platform.2919:37
Stskeepsah19:37
Stskeepsso section instead of bold19:38
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GeneralAntillesMakes it a little easier to read.19:38
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Stskeepsi'm not sure what i should do ;) making it more of a section title?19:39
GeneralAntillesYeah19:39
Stskeepsk19:39
Stskeepsediting'19:40
GeneralAntillesLooks OK to me as it is right now.19:40
GeneralAntillesI did two edits.19:40
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Stskeepsah19:40
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Stskeepsgoing to comb it a bit through and then post on maemo-developers then.19:41
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Khertan_n810re19:42
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GeneralAntillesHopefully qgil's gonna get back to me with his meeting outline.19:42
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Stskeepssprint tonight or?19:44
Stskeeps+meeting19:44
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GeneralAntillesYeah, Sprint today.19:45
GeneralAntilles2:1519:45
GeneralAntilleshours19:45
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Stskeepsk19:45
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disco_stuhi19:46
andre__Hmm. So am I expected to add the one new task I plan for November to add to https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints/November_08 already?19:46
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disco_stuanyone knows how to unminimize apps like Links2 ?19:46
* andre__ is always confused by the amount of wiki pages we have19:46
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disco_stuNaN ?19:48
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johnxdisco_stu, hmm, there was an desktop applet that let you do that19:50
disco_stusome CLI command ?19:50
qwerty12disco_stu, try kotczarny's kciconsbox: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1854219:50
johnxqwerty12, nice catch :)19:51
disco_stuthanks :)19:51
Khertan_n810hum now i get freeze in gtk.main()19:51
johnxdisco_stu, if you want to do it from the command line wmctrl should do the trick19:51
Khertan_n810what could do that ?19:51
disco_stuis it bundled ?19:51
disco_stuor a third party deb ?19:52
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GeneralAntillesandre__, stick it on the proposals page, I guess.19:58
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GeneralAntillesThe Sprint instruction page needs to be written.19:58
andre__gnarf :)19:58
andre__i'll just a file a bug against myself.19:58
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_proposals19:58
GeneralAntillesI guess I should flesh out the index page: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints19:59
GeneralAntillesQuim seems to be the only one who really knows how everything is supposed to work.19:59
andre__same impression here ;-)19:59
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GeneralAntillesI guess there's kinda this: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Sprint_progress20:00
Khertan_n810arg ! i ve found !20:00
GeneralAntillesand: https://wiki.maemo.org/Pushing_a_maemo.org_task20:00
Khertan_n810stupid things !20:00
Khertan_n810a corrupted png file20:00
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: I think I'm going to miss tonight's meeting - either I will still be working, or I'll be travelling from work home20:02
GeneralAntillesSoo, just me and etrunko, then? :P20:03
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: http://rafb.net/p/SScdHh91.html , anything that needs an injection of executive speak?20:04
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GeneralAntillesLooks fine.20:04
Stskeepsalright20:05
etrunkoGeneralAntilles: I'm attending20:05
etrunko(at last)20:05
etrunko:P20:05
GeneralAntilles(Apparently) I'm running this one. ;)20:05
etrunkoGeneralAntilles: I know a bit about scrum... Don't know how the process is being adapted to our reality though20:06
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GeneralAntillesHehe, yeah, I figured you would. :D I was considering shoving it off on you, but you haven't had the opportunity to pick up the specifics of the maemo.org sprints.20:08
etrunkoyup20:09
GeneralAntillesNot that anybody but Quim is really all that clear on them anyway.20:09
etrunkoI can try for the next one20:09
GeneralAntillesandre__, think I should commit this for this Sprint? https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Document_the_maemo.org_Sprint_procedure20:10
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Stskeepsposted.. and now where is my pizza.20:22
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: should i cross-post on iTT "Developers" too or will that just attract unwanted cesspool? :P20:23
JaffaI don't think there are any good low-level devs on ITT but not on -developers20:24
Stskeepstrue20:24
JaffaGeneralAntilles: One input I'd give to the meeting: we, as a council, haven't done anything with the voting process etc. yet.20:24
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, do you want to pick up a task for this Sprint?20:26
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andre__GeneralAntilles, 3844 and 3845 are really high prio? just asking, if you think so, you're probably right :)20:29
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GeneralAntillesandre__, well, they're blockers for implementing the new package categories.20:29
andre__ah, ok20:30
GeneralAntillesSo they basically have to be out in the next SSU push.20:30
andre__understand20:30
GeneralAntillesJaffa, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Define_voting_procedure_for_Community_Council_elections ?20:34
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vincenzo88Hello all20:45
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pupnik810herro20:52
RST38hherro, herr pupnik20:54
vincenzo88You are my herro!20:54
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pupnik810hehe21:01
GeneralAntillesJaffa, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=239338#post23933821:01
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GrackleI like the idea of range voting.21:07
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GeneralAntilles45 minutes until -> #maemo-meeting21:13
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TPC#maemo-meeting? whats that?21:24
TPCwhatever it is, sounds like it could be interesting to watch21:25
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints/October_0821:25
TPCok, thanks21:26
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woglindehi21:29
* X-Fade feels bad whenever he needs to reject a project on garage which has Maemo in the title..21:29
GeneralAntillesHehe21:29
GeneralAntillesJust tell them to flip it around to x for Maemo21:29
X-FadeI always hope they come back..21:29
GeneralAntillesCan you tell them why?21:29
X-FadeYes, I have a default text for that.21:30
GeneralAntillesAh21:30
X-FadeBut still, rejection feels bad ;)21:30
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etrunkoSuggest Moema21:36
etrunko:)21:36
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GeneralAntilles5 minutes -> #maemo-meeting21:54
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* Stskeeps ponders idly22:00
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GeneralAntillesNow -> #maemo-meeting ;)22:00
Stskeepsmy national tv is just rickrolling an entire tv channel with obama+rickrolling.22:00
Stskeepsthat's disturbing.22:00
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Stskeepson a sidenote, when was power management a differentiation area for nokia? i thought it was the ui, seamless connectivity and apps :P22:07
GeneralAntillesSince they began talking about differentiation.22:07
Stskeepsmmkay22:07
X-FadeSince the first phone..22:07
X-FadePower is always a selling point.22:08
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X-FadeAnd you don't want to know how many patents they have on that ;)22:08
Stskeepstrue, but then, libosso should be closed by that logic, as it really aids in making apps sleep and such :P22:08
Stskeepsand other components22:08
GeneralAntillesDon't give them ideas.22:08
Stskeepssorry :P22:09
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Stskeepswhat do they mean by "legacy" as a reason of not opening btw?22:11
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GeneralAntillesInertia, I guess.22:17
GeneralAntillesIt's that way mostly because it's already that way22:17
Stskeepsah22:17
GeneralAntillesNewton's first law and all that. ;)22:18
Stskeepsi'm glad there was finally an official reason why BME is as it is, though22:18
Stskeepsand that's understandable22:18
GeneralAntillesYeah, they don't want people blowing themselves up. ;)22:19
Stskeepssucidal maemo hackers, eh.22:19
Stskeeps:P22:19
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Stskeeps+i22:20
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Sure, I can help push the Nokia guys involved.22:35
GeneralAntillesAlright, since you're working on the server, I'll pick up the responsibility. ;)22:35
X-FadeWell, there will be times where I need to wait on ISP etc to do something. So I can help.22:36
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bilaw_livehallo all!22:38
bilaw_livelive from a bar -- a new feat for me!22:39
Stskeepshehe22:39
GeneralAntillesHooray, tablets!22:39
Stskeepsbut definately not a first in this channel ;)22:39
guardianlong time i didn't use my n800, are there progress with input methods lately ? handwriting recognition ?22:40
bilaw_liveoh, stskeeps, many, MANY pb trying to install deblet;;;;22:40
Stskeepsbilaw_live: did it steal your wife?22:41
bilaw_live(Hello, by the way!)22:41
bilaw_livenot even, it'd have meant i had 1!22:42
Stskeepshehe, because that's the only thing it guarantees it -might- do :P deblet has so far been a good exersise in showing the feasability of open OS's on tablets22:43
Stskeepswithout it having to be a "hack"22:43
Stskeepsand collect research for improving maemo, or pushing it in the right direction22:44
bilaw_livemy experience with it is that it installed sth "somewhere", for 2 hours, and then... nothing! I must have screwed w/ the partition;;;22:45
Stskeepshehe. many reasons for that to happen :)22:45
bilaw_liveI Have to go, ill try and locate the logs if yore interestedc...22:46
Stskeepsk22:46
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RST38hhttp://www.surveyusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ecv-2006.png22:56
RST38hhehehe22:56
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RST38hqwerties breed!23:11
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* Stskeeps yawns23:42
Stskeeps http://maemo.org/profile/list/category/itt_thanks/23:44
Stskeepser23:44
Stskeepsbad paste23:44
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Stskeepswb23:47
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GeneralAntillesStupid client23:47
GeneralAntillesWill sometimes stop redrawing windows when you open a new tab.23:48
Stskeepsah23:48
* Stskeeps ponders playing with debootstrap a bit23:48
Stskeepsatleast one person commented on proposal so far ;)23:50
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GeneralAntillesObama crazy person #4 today.23:51
lcuk2is the meeting due to start or have i missed it?23:53
Stskeepsmissed23:53
Stskeeps:P23:53
lcuk2ahhh phoey23:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk2, what, you wanted to commit a task? ;)23:53
lcuk2i wanted to keep myself informed is all :)  i thought 22:00 utc was 10pm uk time23:54
lcuk2crap!23:54
lcuk2even worse lol23:54
GeneralAntilleslcuk2, http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting23:54
GeneralAntillesShould be up tomorrow23:54
* lcuk2 misread time23:54
qwerty12_N800lcuk2, it's when eastenders finishes :p23:55
lcuk2lol, i have had it in my head that it was 10pm - doesnt matter23:55
* lcuk2 gets in his time machine23:55
*** qwerty12_N800 has quit IRC23:58

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