| BugBlue | than my coding does suck [X] ACK | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| BugBlue | time to do it tomorrow again from scratch | 00:01 |
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| zap | I think you don't take something relatively simple into account | 00:02 |
| zap | write a small test prog | 00:02 |
| sjagan | maemo-sdk-install_4.1.1.sh was timing out for me. Someone in this thread suggested to try with new .sh file. this really resolved the issue for me. Thanks for the help | 00:05 |
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| BugBlue | zap: it's only 34 lines | 00:23 |
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| lardman | sjagan: cool, nice to hear that | 00:34 |
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| livingtm | I built a test app using gtk sharp- the buttons respond fine to the stylus, but doesnt respond with onclick to a finger pressing the button. is this a common problem? | 01:23 |
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| leachim6 | hey | 02:55 |
| leachim6 | where can I get os2008 HE | 02:55 |
| leachim6 | can someone link me to it please | 02:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~tablets-dev | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | tablets-dev.nokia.com | 02:56 |
| leachim6 | thank you very much | 02:56 |
| ShadowJK_ | what's the hacker's edition.. | 02:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Amalgamation of OS2006 and OS2007/OS2008 | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | The wikipedia article explains more. | 03:00 |
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| |rt| | anyone know how to remove the face plate on the n810. Is it just a matter of the 2 torx screws that are visible when you slide out the keyboard. | 03:05 |
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| lcuk | gulp | 03:19 |
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| emma_goldstein | anyone knows how to join an irc-channel with telepathy-idle? | 04:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | /join <channel> ? | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't recall | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | But XChat is better anyway | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's in Extras-devel | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~extras | 04:38 |
| infobot | somebody said extras was http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 04:38 |
| emma_goldstein | just testing telepathy-framework - somehow they forgot to create a window to enter stuff like /join ;) | 04:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | New chat, maybe? | 04:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't recall, but it didn't take too long to do when I tried it months ago. | 04:39 |
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| emma_goldstein | cool - got it | 04:44 |
| emma | I wonder why does emma_goldstein 's nick trigger my highlight. | 04:44 |
| beford | tehehe | 04:45 |
| emma_goldstein | that's the gloriour roots of this nick :P | 04:45 |
| emma | :) | 04:46 |
| emma | Still, irssi should be smart enough to not highlight me on emma_goldstein | 04:47 |
| emma_goldstein | I'm close to happy now doing irc with maemo-chat - and it knows how to highlight me | 04:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | XChat is way better | 04:48 |
| emma | I'm generally exceedingly happy with irssi. | 04:49 |
| emma_goldstein | I know - coming from pidgin and missing autoreply for nickserv in telepathy | 04:49 |
| emma_goldstein | But - it's a nice, clean and useful interface | 04:50 |
| emma_goldstein | I'm on nokia n810 here | 04:51 |
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| * camel_liu hi, I'm back. | 04:51 | |
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| camel_liu | May I ask what's the difference between diablo-sdk-testing/ and maemo_4.1/ in https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/? | 04:53 |
| camel_liu | https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/ | 04:53 |
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| lopz | night | 06:11 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 08:26 |
| qwerty12 | hi RST38h | 08:27 |
| RST38h | hey qwerty | 08:36 |
| RST38h | Is transmission still not available from extras? | 08:36 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Nah, I promoted it yesterday :) | 08:37 |
| RST38h | hurrah! | 08:37 |
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| RST38h | now, only need to get new canola and abiword... | 08:37 |
| qwerty12 | You should remove pipeline's version if you have it installed first though | 08:37 |
| RST38h | abiword still borderline usable? | 08:37 |
| RST38h | ok | 08:38 |
| * qwerty12 gets back to minor h-a-m hacking. The grid view patch works well except for the stupid border that is defined in the theme. | 08:43 | |
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| GAN800 | One of you should get with m-vo | 08:47 |
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| qwerty12 | Heh, not me. I didn't know until yesterday that you could use if statements like that in C++ after fucking around with && for about an hour | 08:47 |
| qwerty12 | I'll concentrate on seeing if I can put of an prototype of the osv-c application manager. | 08:50 |
| qwerty12 | s/of/out | 08:50 |
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| RST38h | Screenshots! Screenshot! | 08:55 |
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| * qwerty12 goes back into blue pill mode after a couple of weeks :/ | 09:07 | |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Screenshot of the grid view? | 09:07 |
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| solmumaha | morning | 09:08 |
| qwerty12 | morning solmumaha | 09:08 |
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| solmumaha | got a nice offer, friend wants to sell me his n810 for 100 e | 09:09 |
| qwerty12 | Hehe, nice. I once got offered a N810 for N800 + £30 | 09:09 |
| solmumaha | i would really like a sun readable screen | 09:10 |
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| qwerty12 | That's retarded, you can't update your repos manually in blue pill mode... Time to fix that. | 09:11 |
| solmumaha | but hate losing two card slots | 09:11 |
| qwerty12 | Heh, yeah, N800 screen is horrible in sunlight :( | 09:11 |
| solmumaha | yes, it's a mirror | 09:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, yes you can. | 09:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | You just have to be in one of the package views. | 09:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I filed a bug about it if you want to provide a patch. | 09:11 |
| qwerty12 | Ok, my bad. I said it's been a long while since I've been in blue pill :P | 09:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ah, t_s_o filled that bug | 09:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | No wonder I couldn't find it. | 09:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3286 | 09:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | I guess yerga already patched it | 09:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | if you just want to use his. ;) | 09:14 |
| qwerty12 | Yep, great! | 09:14 |
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| qwerty12 | Done. I've also enabled the dependencies tab to be shown all the time ; in blue pill and red pill mode. | 09:15 |
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| qwerty12 | Done. Any other requests that people want shifting from red pill mode into blue pill mode? | 09:21 |
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| oilinki3 | qwerty12: what is the main difference between those modes? | 09:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, can you backport m-vo's recent modifications to the Fremantle branch re Red Pill? | 09:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | i.e., no mode retention | 09:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Show magic and show non-user/ off by default. | 09:33 |
| qwerty12 | oilinki3: red pill lets you install anything (including things outside the user/ section). It can also be an easy way for people to go into a reboot loop. But red pill can offer more useful information. | 09:33 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: Ah, that one is easy. | 09:33 |
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| qwerty12 | Should be just changing 2 lines in settings.cc | 09:34 |
| oilinki3 | qwerty12: ah. i have used the red pill, but always wondered what is blue pill.. i suppose blue pill is standard mode? | 09:35 |
| qwerty12 | yep | 09:35 |
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| qwerty12 | I'll backport "Make red-pill mode non-permanent by default.". But I was going to cry as I was doing it until I saw: "* src/settings.cc (load_settings): Set red_pill_mode to false unless it is permanent." | 09:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Carman themes are a lot heavier than Canola themes. . . . | 10:05 |
| Proteous | yeah, I had to upgrade from a belt to a pair of suspenders after installing a few | 10:05 |
| Proteous | and re-enforce the pockets of my jeans | 10:06 |
| Proteous | come on | 10:06 |
| Proteous | that was funny | 10:06 |
| RST38h | no. | 10:06 |
| Proteous | lol | 10:06 |
| RST38h | =) | 10:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Little weak. | 10:07 |
| * Proteous hangs his head in shame | 10:07 | |
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| aquatix | morning all | 10:44 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, how to list the dependencies of a deb thats not in the repos... | 10:50 |
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| t_s_o | ah, dpkg --info | 10:52 |
| Jaffa | beMorning, all | 10:54 |
| Jaffa | xx | 10:54 |
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| RST38h | ehlo, hrw, Jaffa | 10:56 |
| hrw | ho | 10:56 |
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| * lcuk has been at work for 9 minutes and already warcraft talk has reduced my brain capacity by half | 11:10 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sorry, lcuk. | 11:10 |
| lcuk | you should be \@/ i am actually here to do stuff but i can feel my life force eeping out of the back of my head | 11:10 |
| lcuk | bbl | 11:11 |
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| _marcell_ | camel_liu: ping | 11:12 |
| * RST38h had a WoW fan attack a few days ago. Found lots of weird things. | 11:13 | |
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| Proteous | sadly, I to have been playing WoW again | 11:16 |
| Proteous | new hunter pets sucked me back in | 11:16 |
| Proteous | EVIL BLIZZARD | 11:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's amazing that Blizzard has built such an empire out of some that completely lacks gameplay. | 11:17 |
| Proteous | it's just a fun world to be in | 11:17 |
| RST38h | Judging from what I heard it won't be long until you get to kill Jesus in WoW | 11:17 |
| Proteous | lol | 11:17 |
| glass | RST38h: at least he'd stay dead for 3 days | 11:17 |
| Mikho | i wouldn't say completely, but it's pretty near | 11:17 |
| RST38h | And the magi. And the maiden. And probably that donkey too, although he will be a minor boss. | 11:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I played for about 2 months back when it first came out | 11:18 |
| Mikho | would that require multiple 40 character raid groups to beat? | 11:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I might've played more if all my friends hadn't transfered to another server right after I started playing. | 11:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bizarre game | 11:19 |
| glass | the endgame is just 40 men nerd ballet repeated week after week... | 11:20 |
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| Proteous | lol | 11:21 |
| t_s_o | hrmf, not even running ping will stop the wifi from going down on timeout :( | 11:22 |
| t_s_o | and the video call app can still not hold a setting past reboot... | 11:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | XChat holds timeout. | 11:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, ping. | 11:27 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: pong | 12:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, can you put fixing the Council blog comments at the very bottom of your very long list of todos? | 12:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | and do you want a bug for that? | 12:03 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Can you file a bug for that, so I don't forget ;) | 12:05 |
| t_s_o | http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-243672.html <- intel has a foot in mouth moment ;) | 12:06 |
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| RST38h | The Foot in Mouth Disease | 12:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3829 | 12:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thanks! :) | 12:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, is that, like, with cattle? ;) | 12:09 |
| RST38h | yes, with marketing cattle | 12:09 |
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| t_s_o | the kind that make dollar and euro sounds ;) | 12:14 |
| * Jaffa likes mvo's response on the idea of having App Mgr a fremantle start | 12:15 | |
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| t_s_o | hmm? | 12:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, somebody should get with him about the community branch. | 12:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Since you guys seem so gung-ho to get some real coding done. :D | 12:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Who thinks sjgadsby changed his avatar because of the shirtless comments? | 12:27 |
| * RST38h does not know what or who sjgadsby is | 12:28 | |
| GeneralAntilles | You're kidding, right? | 12:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/profile/view/sjgadsby/ | 12:30 |
| RST38h | just being selective in memory allocation | 12:31 |
| RST38h | Ah. Maemo Bug Jar I know. | 12:31 |
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| woglinde | hm remindes me to file a bug about signle sign on with garage and bugtracker accounts | 12:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | woglinde, don't. | 12:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Please. | 12:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's already on the appropriate radars | 12:34 |
| woglinde | hehe | 12:34 |
| RST38h | has been there for months though... | 12:34 |
| X-Fade | And there is already a bug for it too? | 12:34 |
| woglinde | how many seconds I have to wait? | 12:34 |
| woglinde | hi x-fade .) | 12:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, 90% sure | 12:34 |
| aquatix | woglinde: a nine-figure number ;) | 12:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Single_sign-on | 12:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3340 | 12:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | The bug seems kinda unrelated | 12:36 |
| oilinki3 | GeneralAntilles: one idea for the community council work. would you be able to organize irc-meeting by application bassis. for example get the people who work with maemo-mapper together in irc in certain time so that others could also share their development ideas etc.? | 12:38 |
| woglinde | hm how do I tell scratchbox that it tells dpkg-buildpackage that it provides automake-1.9 | 12:40 |
| X-Fade | woglinde: Build-depens on automake-1.9 ? | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | *build-depends | 12:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | oilinki3, well, I suppose we could | 12:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | but I don't much see the point | 12:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you've got ideas, either hit the lists or go directly to the authors. | 12:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most of them can be reached through their Garage projects | 12:42 |
| woglinde | x-fade -> : Using Scratchbox tools to satisfy builddeps | 12:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | or file bugs on the Garage trackers | 12:42 |
| oilinki3 | GeneralAntilles: just wonderign if open brainstorming would be beneficial in that way. writing some ideas, which others can top-up or just kill | 12:43 |
| oilinki3 | but i guess that could be a bit messy in the irc. | 12:43 |
| RST38h | oilinki3: Don't you think that organizing such a meeting should be done by app author? | 12:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 12:43 |
| aquatix | oilinki3: maybe file them as feature in bugzilla? | 12:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you want to do it, get with the authors and do it. | 12:44 |
| aquatix | or enhancement | 12:44 |
| aquatix | and that :) | 12:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nothing the council really needs to be involved in. | 12:44 |
| RST38h | well you may still want to put announcements at maemo.org | 12:44 |
| oilinki3 | RST38h: yes. better if it would be organised by the app author. | 12:44 |
| RST38h | but aside from that, not council's job | 12:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, 3rd-party applications aren't tracked in Bugzilla yet. | 12:44 |
| ShadowJK_ | Is there any way to increase the watchdog timeout.. I'm getting hit by it too often :P | 12:44 |
| aquatix | aight | 12:45 |
| * aquatix -> lunch | 12:45 | |
| GeneralAntilles | _marcell_, ping. | 12:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, does that mean you ran through your whole todo list? :D | 12:48 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: opinion of qgil's answer to my post? | 12:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, positive and unsurprising. | 12:52 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: No, but suddenly I knew what was wrong ;) | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: generally points a bit to Fremantle development has been in HAF+GTK, not anywhere else :P | 12:52 |
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| kvk | when im trying to do autogen.sh im getting error like " No package 'hildon-libs' found ". | 12:59 |
| RST38h | Oil <$60 hehe | 13:00 |
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| johnx | woowoo! just in time for me to pick up driving again :D | 13:00 |
| RST38h | kvk: tried apt-get install hildon-libs ? | 13:00 |
| RST38h | johnx: Not so fast, Nikkei down to 1982 level =) | 13:00 |
| johnx | doesn't affect me. I don't invest in stock | 13:01 |
| johnx | yeah, it's cause Yen is way up though | 13:01 |
| woglinde | rst yes I read this too | 13:01 |
| woglinde | but vw pushed up with 75% | 13:02 |
| kvk | how to set HILDON_CFLAGS and HILDON_LIBS path to avoid the need to call pkg-config path?? | 13:02 |
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| RST38h | johnx: it will probably have some effect sooner or later | 13:02 |
| woglinde | kvk whats wrong with pkg-config? | 13:02 |
| johnx | RST38h, in fact it's a real nice time to get paid in Yen :) | 13:02 |
| baaba | not knowing what pkg-config is, i suspect :P | 13:03 |
| kvk | RST38h, i have tried that, but it couldn't get package | 13:03 |
| RST38h | johnx: grr! oh well, I am getting both rur and usd, form different sources... | 13:03 |
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| RST38h | kvk: Do you know, by the way, that the whole autoconf stuff can be avoided? =) | 13:04 |
| kvk | woglinde, it couldn't get hildon-libs package | 13:04 |
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| RST38h | kvk: The Magic Wand is hidden in this tutorial: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html | 13:05 |
| woglinde | kvk when there are no hildon-libs, then there are no pkg-config stuff for it | 13:05 |
| RST38h | Notice that the first example does not require autoconf | 13:06 |
| woglinde | kvk so your manual method will fail too | 13:06 |
| RST38h | gcc -o maemo_hello maemo_hello.c `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0 hildon-1` -ansi -Wall `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0 hildon-1` | 13:06 |
| johnx | RST38h, you're right though. That stock chart for the Nikkei doesn't look good at all. Everyone remember to buy Sony CD players and Toyota cars, ya hear? | 13:06 |
| RST38h | johnx: ...and Sony/Toyota themselves too... | 13:06 |
| johnx | isn't Sony the number one car maker in the world? or is GM still ahead by a little? | 13:07 |
| RST38h | johnx: I only know that the number one tire maker is LEGO | 13:07 |
| johnx | :D | 13:07 |
| RST38h | They produce more car tires per year than all other makers combined | 13:07 |
| RST38h | Prolly applies to cars too... | 13:08 |
| kvk | RST38h, inside scratchbox it is working fine but on the desktop it is throwing that error | 13:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Toyota has been number one for a while. | 13:09 |
| kvk | woglinde, then how to install hildon-libs package?? | 13:09 |
| woglinde | kvk scroll some lines back | 13:09 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: heh, so the issue is wether to work on stuff like deblet or work on nokia to make maemo more sane and open | 13:09 |
| RST38h | kvk: It is not supposed to work outside scratchbox | 13:09 |
| woglinde | the answer was given, but not from me | 13:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia! Nokia! Nokia! | 13:10 |
| RST38h | How are you gonna "work on Nokia" gentlemen? | 13:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | 9 iron | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: help push decent plans and outline ways to go? :P | 13:10 |
| RST38h | Do I smell plastite? | 13:10 |
| _marcell_ | GeneralAntilles: pong | 13:10 |
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| johnx | RST38h, frozen trout | 13:11 |
| RST38h | Sts: Nokia has completely different plans and goals than the Maemo community | 13:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | _marcell_, any word on getting the latest FIASCO images (RX-48, too) into tablet-dev? | 13:11 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: well, maybe work on "Maemo" as such then | 13:11 |
| RST38h | johnx: You do know that Nokia's original logo included the Crazy Fish (tm)? | 13:11 |
| johnx | the one to wallop their competition with, but I think they'll appreciate the irony | 13:12 |
| _marcell_ | GeneralAntilles: not much. I have sent an other mail this morning nagging the responsilbe people once again. | 13:12 |
| RST38h | Sts: In the end, they have to sell hardware to general public | 13:12 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: obviously, and that's possible still with having a good open base system | 13:12 |
| RST38h | That is what their main goal is. Your goals of making Maemo more open, basing it on Debian, replacing UI with generic window manager, etc etc have nothing to do with how Nokia makes money | 13:12 |
| _marcell_ | GeneralAntilles: at least the winflasher has the correct images, so that can be used | 13:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | _marcell_, that's not an answer. :\ | 13:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, the Windows flasher, that is. | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: oh, i didn't say replace UI with generic window manager, - i don't care what's above UI level | 13:13 |
| _marcell_ | I know, and I completely agree with you. | 13:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | _marcell_, anything I can do? | 13:14 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: and for open source community to get to a decent system for low power low storage/etc will take quite a while else | 13:14 |
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| Stskeeps | and admittedly some things nokia have gotten right | 13:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, this is platform level stuff, not UI stuff. | 13:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | More open platform benefits end users, anyway | 13:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | As it gives them access to more software. | 13:15 |
| RST38h | General: But they are really ok with whatever platform they have | 13:15 |
| RST38h | And they only want THEIR software to work right and be complete | 13:15 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: being able to take apps they know from their <X> other chinese shit device to more quality tablets, is a benefit too | 13:15 |
| johnx | but the closer they align to upstream the less work they have to do | 13:15 |
| RST38h | Sts: Not really. More shitty apps - negative public opinion | 13:16 |
| RST38h | Sts: Do remember how Atari 2600 died | 13:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 13:16 |
| johnx | I'm sure it's no fun wasting time re-integrating patches into gtk every time they pull a new upstream version to avoid becoming obsolete | 13:16 |
| RST38h | johnx: I think they consider their main body of platform work DONE and having to sync with the mainstream platform an extra work they do not have to do | 13:17 |
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| johnx | RST38h, and yet they're doing it. look at svn | 13:17 |
| RST38h | johnx: Isn't Nokia's GTK stuff completely public? | 13:17 |
| _marcell_ | GeneralAntilles: I am not sure what could you do. Quim is already aware of the issue and he also started sending mails... I have no idea what is the problem with saying "go ahead" | 13:17 |
| johnx | RST38h, it's public, but forked | 13:18 |
| johnx | RST38h, you either have upstream gtk installed or Nokia's gtk installed | 13:18 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Is there any solid technical reason for the fork? | 13:18 |
| johnx | RST38h, now: no. 3 years ago: some thin reasons | 13:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | _marcell_, well, anyway, I'm going to start making a racket if it's not fixed reasonably soon. | 13:19 |
| RST38h | then at least GTK has to be merged with the mainstream | 13:19 |
| RST38h | This sounds like a reasonable and relatively cheap thing to do | 13:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, then why are you arguing? | 13:19 |
| RST38h | But for the platform stuff (aka "Let us all use debian") I would not get hopes too high | 13:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think you're misunderstand our goals. | 13:20 |
| RST38h | General: see above | 13:20 |
| johnx | RST38h, the goal isn't "use debian" it's "be more compatible with debian" | 13:20 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Any top honcho from nokia will ask you "Why?" | 13:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Reduce the software development overhead for Maemo | 13:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Improve community relations | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | making them able to devote more time on what really matters on Maemo | 13:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Make a wider universe of applications available for Maemo. | 13:21 |
| johnx | ^what they said^ | 13:22 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: But realisticly, how many applications would be end-use ready without any change. | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | - and by not restricting to hildon as well more people can have more use for the tablets | 13:22 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: And not speaking about power users ;) | 13:22 |
| lardman | X-Fade: possibly some of the ones in OE | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | if someone wants to run a flash "today" windows mobile UI like thing, sure, let them | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | the platform wills upport it | 13:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I just want to install find-utils. :( | 13:23 |
| X-Fade | Sure alignment with debian would be cool, but it is not a perfect solution for everything. | 13:23 |
| X-Fade | debian has crappy categories too ;) | 13:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, well, it reduces the barrier to porting | 13:23 |
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| RST38h | johnx: The answer will be "our current platform is good enough, won't be redoing it" | 13:24 |
| johnx | RST38h, actually the answer was quite different | 13:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're already redoing a lot of Fremantle. | 13:24 |
| X-Fade | And Debian is very desktop/server oriented. A mobile device is really a different target. | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not saying "take all of debian", either | 13:24 |
| L0cutus | re | 13:24 |
| RST38h | johnx: and what was it? was it "cool we are switching to debian tomorrow"? | 13:24 |
| johnx | X-Fade, point well taken | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | but yet they did it with maemo originally and look how it turned out? | 13:25 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles/X-Fade: mvo's getting involved in the debtags/section discussion on the "make the category list better" thread on -devel. | 13:25 |
| johnx | RST38h, no, it was "we'll try to align with debian where it makes sense. bug us about specific problems you have." | 13:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: In other words, it was a polite version of what I suspected :) | 13:25 |
| L0cutus | where can i find more info on how to use "dbus-send" for eg, activate a wifi connection on my n800 ? | 13:25 |
| X-Fade | Running openoffice(for example) on omap3 might work, but if it is really desirable in it's current state.... | 13:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: "we will do stuff as long as it does not cost us" | 13:25 |
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| vincenzo88 | Hi all | 13:26 |
| johnx | RST38h, that's all anyone is asking. Just some simple easy things that can only be done by Nokia | 13:26 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yeah, but I don't see the gain of debtags. Do I need to click on 'GPS', 'MAP', 'INTERNET' to get a group with maemo-mapper in it? :) | 13:26 |
| johnx | RST38h, like keeping package names aligned with debian, etc | 13:26 |
| lardman | X-Fade: you can click on any one of those | 13:27 |
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| X-Fade | Debtags is nice to describe an application, not for finding. | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | debtags aren't a solution in and of themselves | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Need to have a nice interface on top. | 13:27 |
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| * lcuk has never seen the point of not being able to filter the list hitting "map" on the keyboard would filter to all map applicaitons no matter what category they are in | 13:27 | |
| X-Fade | lardman: Check the debtags interface for the debian repository. Not sure if that is the way you want to casually find applications. | 13:27 |
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| lardman | X-Fade: ok | 13:28 |
| vincenzo88 | I am a youn French emplyee (and student too) I will start a projet on the new Nokia N810 but i have never program on tablet. Someone can help me to begin ? Thanks | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ahaa, lcuk. | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | vincenzo88: there's a huge pdf for development manuao :) | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, put that patch on your list. | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | manual | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/development | 13:29 |
| lardman | vincenzo88: what are you planning on developing? | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/ was what i found :P | 13:29 |
| lardman | X-Fade: I still like subcategories | 13:29 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: think it would be worth anything trying to construct a debian maemo-like platform? | 13:29 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Yes, me too. Although I guess you can fake them using debtags too. | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | a small one for Proof of concept | 13:29 |
| vincenzo88 | Thanks. I have to create a programm to displays video streams from camera IP | 13:30 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, so debian based, but with maemo-gtk, busybox, etc? | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: with busybox, maybe upstart, and all that stuff | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | to indicate what issues there would b | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | e | 13:30 |
| lardman | vincenzo88: you could probably do it all with a scripting language | 13:30 |
| lardman | vincenzo88: you might look at GStreamer, assuming it is able to decode the stream (mjpeg probably?) | 13:31 |
| vincenzo88 | Yes Mjpeg | 13:31 |
| lardman | vincenzo88: how you wrap the GStreamer elements is up to you - C or Python would be the best bets imo | 13:31 |
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| lardman | do you know any languages? | 13:32 |
| vincenzo88 | C, C++ | 13:32 |
| vincenzo88 | and Qt on Windows | 13:32 |
| lardman | fine, go with C then | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i wonder how busybox is performance wise towards bash | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | er | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | dash | 13:32 |
| vincenzo88 | Ok i will see that, thanks for your help | 13:32 |
| lardman | there's example code at the urls above, show how to use gstreamer from within C and also the Hildon stuff | 13:33 |
| lardman | vincenzo88: take a look for the camera app example code | 13:33 |
| melmoth | vincenzo88: who is the french company interested in maemo ? | 13:34 |
| vincenzo88 | Ok thanks lardman | 13:34 |
| vincenzo88 | A video security company (sorry for my english) | 13:34 |
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| lardman | vincenzo88: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_camera_api_bora.html is applicable | 13:34 |
| lardman | does that exist for maemo 4.x? | 13:35 |
| vincenzo88 | Ok great link ! | 13:35 |
| melmoth | https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/maemo_4.1/maemo-examples/example_camera.c | 13:35 |
| lardman | there's also an app which displays video over IP data iirc | 13:35 |
| lardman | melmoth: thanks, couldn't find that one :) | 13:36 |
| vincenzo88 | I will study this example code :} | 13:36 |
| melmoth | vincenzo88: if you are not familiar with gstreamer, you may want to read about it first. | 13:37 |
| lardman | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/gstmjpg/ | 13:37 |
| melmoth | http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/index.html :) | 13:37 |
| vincenzo88 | Yes i don't know Gstreamer before | 13:37 |
| lardman | looks like it's already been done for you ;) | 13:37 |
| lardman | and I was sure there was a stand alone app too, not just that cgi one | 13:39 |
| solmumaha | lardman: this one? http://peekaboo.garage.maemo.org/ | 13:42 |
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| solmumaha | i don't think it works on os2008 though | 13:42 |
| lardman | I thought there was something more utilitarian than that | 13:43 |
| lardman | and something with source for that matter | 13:43 |
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| solmumaha | i got that compiled for 2008 but it didn't work | 13:43 |
| lardman | oh, does it have source then? | 13:43 |
| RST38h | johnx: that stuff shouldn't incur any costs, yes. But I thought people asked for more deep synchronization | 13:44 |
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| solmumaha | yes, at the garage page | 13:44 |
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| lardman | ah cool | 13:44 |
| lardman | vincenzo88: there you go then | 13:45 |
| lardman | vincenzo88: at least you'll have a little bit to do ;) | 13:45 |
| solmumaha | good luck with vlc :p | 13:45 |
| lardman | well a different backend could be used I imagine | 13:45 |
| solmumaha | sure | 13:46 |
| vincenzo88 | Yes :p | 13:46 |
| lcuk | lardman, morning, has your phone been ringing this morning? http://xkcd.com/494/ | 13:48 |
| lcuk | or have you passed the hat onto the general ;) | 13:48 |
| lardman | I believe that is the General's job | 13:49 |
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| lcuk | heh | 13:51 |
| Stskeeps | suihkulokki: debian doesn't have something like docpurge anymore? | 13:51 |
| * GeneralAntilles takes away lcuk's bandwidth privileges. | 13:51 | |
| johnx | RST38h, well some did, I'm sure. Lots of people also want ponies and unicorns. Just not me :) | 13:52 |
| * Stskeeps runs a minbase debootstrap and sees how much it can be stripped down. | 13:52 | |
| suihkulokki | Stskeeps: if it's missing, you can package it and I will sponsor it :) | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | k | 13:53 |
| * lcuk takes away GeneralAntilles's touchscreen privileges | 13:53 | |
| lcuk | no more stroking the girls of the playboy mansion :P | 13:53 |
| * suihkulokki notices the internet connection is too laggy to irc, so bbl | 13:53 | |
| * GeneralAntilles has never been a fan of artificial STD-infected women. | 13:54 | |
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| lcuk | fair enough then - would you prefer to miss out on STD infected rodents in playrat? | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: the atari 2600 is interesting.. which brings me to the question why there isn't more erotic apps for maemo | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, even my c64 had | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | that | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:57 |
| RST38h | Sts: You are just applying your tablet the wrong way. | 13:57 |
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| RST38h | Of course it is one area where thin and classy Apple products really excel | 13:58 |
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| Stskeeps | irc'ing from the loo? | 13:59 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:59 |
| * lcuk is going to make a webbrowser addin with a virtual staple which sits in the middle of the screen | 13:59 | |
| camel_liu | melmoth, do you make 'monkey-bubble' successfully under maemo? | 14:00 |
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| melmoth | i did not try after i re installed scratchbox again | 14:02 |
| camel_liu | ok, I have to try another one. | 14:03 |
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| * qwerty12 thanks mv-o for good changelogs | 14:08 | |
| t_s_o | Stskeeps: take a look at "i am free" in app manager ;) | 14:08 |
| qwerty12 | That program is the epitome of excitement. | 14:08 |
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| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: Ok, red pill changes in fremantle *should* be backported to the diablo one. | 14:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Awesome | 14:16 |
| qwerty12 | All I need to do is figure out how to get the show legal warning stuff to show in blue pill mode without it crashing >.< | 14:16 |
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| qwerty12 | Yep, just tested. Went into red pill mode and restarted app manager and I'm back in blue pill mode. | 14:21 |
| woglinde | qwerty12 thanks for the link with htc, its working now | 14:22 |
| woglinde | I only had to change the device class | 14:22 |
| qwerty12 | woglinde: Great news | 14:22 |
| lcuk | chicken n bacon club sandwich or just plain ham salad? | 14:23 |
| * lcuk should have a voting booth on NIT | 14:23 | |
| qwerty12 | go for both :P | 14:23 |
| lardman | BLT, I'll have another if you're offering though | 14:23 |
| lcuk | heh im not that fat | 14:23 |
| woglinde | *g* | 14:23 |
| lardman | not yet ;) | 14:23 |
| qwerty12 | lol | 14:23 |
| lcuk | heh lardman, itsn ot a blt, its super blt and includes extra garnish | 14:23 |
| lardman | mmmm bacon | 14:23 |
| lardman | garnish just reduces the bacon density | 14:24 |
| lcuk | i got shouted at the other night, tracy told me to leave an even amount of bacon | 14:24 |
| woglinde | ~lart maemo for providing 6 automake-versions | 14:24 |
| * infobot farts in maemo's general direction for providing 6 automake-versions | 14:24 | |
| lcuk | so i left 2 slices and she still wasnt happy | 14:24 |
| qwerty12 | woglinde: I like that :P | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | woglinde: debian isn't really batter.. | 14:24 |
| woglinde | no it suckz on the autobuilder | 14:24 |
| woglinde | if I want automake-1.9 | 14:25 |
| qwerty12 | Specify which one you want then | 14:25 |
| lcuk | woglinde knows all about the autobuilder ;) | 14:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ungh bacon | 14:25 |
| * GeneralAntilles is hungry. | 14:25 | |
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| lcuk | i thought it was completely fair to leave 2 rashers - it did what she said and left an even amount, just because there was 12 rashers to begin with is completely not the point | 14:25 |
| woglinde | Stskeeps hm I only have my automake-1.10 thats all I need | 14:25 |
| woglinde | on debian | 14:26 |
| lcuk | im hungry as well (cant you tell) but its rainin muchly and im a wuss | 14:26 |
| qwerty12 | In the South, it's sunny :P | 14:27 |
| lardman | I'm hungry too and I've just had lunch | 14:27 |
| lcuk | mmmm back later - rain stopped | 14:28 |
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| qwerty12 | w00t, I'm finished with application manager. Anyone want to test it as well? | 14:32 |
| qwerty12 | (g0 on) | 14:33 |
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| RST38h | The Information Commissioner has ruled against a request to force the BBC to reveal the inner workings of its TV detector vans. | 14:38 |
| RST38h | qwerty: screenshots? =) | 14:38 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: screenshots! | 14:38 |
| RST38h | And is it true that your government is snooping around neirbourhoods for working TV sets? | 14:38 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, aquatix: k, wait a second | 14:38 |
| derf | They tax TVs, don't they? | 14:39 |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h: Lol, they advertise that they do and I know one person that was paid a visit... | 14:39 |
| qwerty12 | derf: Yep, "Tv Licensing". | 14:39 |
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| derf | That's where the BBC gets its money. | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: TV detectors are useless nowadays - our public television licensing publically admitted that | 14:39 |
| RST38h | But what if you refuse to let them in? | 14:39 |
| qwerty12 | No idea | 14:39 |
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| Stskeeps | in .dk they are not allowed to enter without a court warrant | 14:40 |
| RST38h | Sts: that is how it should be in UK as well, no? | 14:40 |
| aquatix | RST38h: i don't think you *have* to let them in | 14:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | TV licensing? | 14:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's AWESOME | 14:40 |
| Robot101 | you're allowed to refuse them entrance too, they have to get a police warrant if they want to search against your will | 14:40 |
| aquatix | not sure though | 14:40 |
| RST38h | General: you didn't know? | 14:40 |
| aquatix | 'xaclty | 14:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, no. | 14:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's enough insanity on this side of the pond | 14:41 |
| RST38h | General: There are REASONS why Orwell was British, you know... | 14:41 |
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| Robot101 | they do a lot of gestapo shit though, and essentially accuse everyone who doesn't have a TV license of having a secret TV and being criminals | 14:41 |
| aquatix | tv licensing is mainly because of public tv i think | 14:41 |
| aquatix | we have it here in the netherlands too | 14:42 |
| RST38h | it is supposed to finance BBC | 14:42 |
| aquatix | yeah | 14:42 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: in .dk they do it for homes with 256kbps+ connection too but noone cares.. | 14:42 |
| RST38h | evil | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | "media license" (cos the public tv started offering stuff online!) | 14:43 |
| pupnik810 | Robot101, haha @ germany | 14:43 |
| Robot101 | pupnik810: hm? no this is the UK TV licensing authority | 14:43 |
| woglinde | aquatix yeah but you have the right to decide whats showing and I lately read | 14:43 |
| aquatix | woglinde: what do you mean exactly? | 14:43 |
| Robot101 | they've actually put up billboards in some towns saying "12 PEOPLE ON $street DO NOT HAVE A TV LICENSE? (are you one of them? there's a $foo penalty for watching TV illegally)" | 14:44 |
| aquatix | Robot101: *sigh* | 14:44 |
| macoute | GeneralAntilles: well, how many free, non-commercial national tv-channels you have? | 14:44 |
| aquatix | it's not that bad here in the NL thanfully | 14:44 |
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| pupnik810 | any of you using an external umts dongle on N8x0? there are not enough open wlans in germany | 14:44 |
| RST38h | Robot101: About a year ago, Microsoft ran an ad campaign in Moscow subway | 14:44 |
| aquatix | they somehow merged it into other taxes | 14:44 |
| macoute | pupnik810: how about using a phone instead? :o | 14:44 |
| aquatix | so now everyone with sewage or water pays for a tv/radio | 14:44 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, aquatix: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/appman/1.png (showing Jaffa's grid view patch) & http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/appman/2.png (showing mine & Jaffa's show legal warning toggable patch & red pill changes from fremantle) | 14:45 |
| RST38h | Robot101: blue/green ads with vaguely gay looking office people and a message "I did not know before, but now I know!" | 14:45 |
| RST38h | Robot101: The idea is to make everybody license windows | 14:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | macoute, around 6. | 14:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, national, 2. | 14:45 |
| aquatix | RST38h: :) | 14:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lots more local | 14:45 |
| woglinde | aquatix hm I read that there are some associations in which you can discuss and have some influence on what is showing ob public tv | 14:45 |
| macoute | GeneralAntilles: how do they get their money? :o | 14:45 |
| RST38h | Robot101: In just several days, somebody wrote a valid WinXP registration number across all the ads though | 14:45 |
| aquatix | woglinde: ah, i guess so indeed | 14:46 |
| Robot101 | RST38h: lol | 14:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | macoute, partly from the government, partly from donations. | 14:46 |
| macoute | GeneralAntilles: so you'd have to pay even though you don't watch them? | 14:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | and sponsorships | 14:46 |
| woglinde | aquatix we dont have this here in germany | 14:46 |
| macoute | GeneralAntilles: in taxes, i mean | 14:46 |
| woglinde | otherwise "Musikantenstadl" would be finsished | 14:46 |
| aquatix | woglinde: not that i know of that association or something :) | 14:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | macoute, I don't use welfare, either. | 14:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | I pay for that. | 14:46 |
| * aquatix barely watches the dutch tv | 14:46 | |
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| woglinde | aquatix haha | 14:46 |
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| macoute | GeneralAntilles: i mean that if the funding comes from the government, that means the funding comes from you :) | 14:47 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: perhaps legal warning thing should be "never show this bloody thing again"? | 14:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | macoute, what's your point? | 14:47 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: hehe, I know, a pointless piece of shit by scared pussies | 14:47 |
| RST38h | qwerty: If I install it, how do I go back to the original one? | 14:47 |
| macoute | GeneralAntilles: that if you want to have free channels, you need to have the tv-license fee or you have to pay it in taxes. | 14:47 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: that's a lot of settings :) | 14:47 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: it's the intention that apps are going to use more meaningful categories right? | 14:48 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Get it from the ssu repo and use dpkg to install. I'll grab the original from there in a minute. | 14:48 |
| macoute | GeneralAntilles: and if you pay it in your taxes, there is a great possibility that the government gets to influence in the programs they show. | 14:48 |
| aquatix | as atm, i still just use the All button to find stuff | 14:48 |
| qwerty12 | aquatix: I hope so, I'm not really listening to that discussion. Same, I use the All button too. | 14:48 |
| RST38h | General: Hey, I pay for welfare and I had regular chance to watch welfare recepients!~ | 14:48 |
| RST38h | General: So in a sense, it was like British TV license for me | 14:49 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Ok | 14:49 |
| aquatix | RST38h: :) | 14:49 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Legal warning is not pointless. It is required from Nokia to disclaim all responsibility | 14:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | macoute, I still don't see what that has to do with vans driving around to make sure people pay their TV licenses. | 14:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's pointless. | 14:50 |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h: My pocket pc never displayed it. And it ran software by microsoft. | 14:50 |
| RST38h | General: Not if you ask Nokia's legal councel | 14:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, well, they don't live in reality. | 14:50 |
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| RST38h | General: Well, it is all done to keep you safe from accidentally entring their reality | 14:50 |
| macoute | GeneralAntilles: i do. :) if you need to pay that (you have a tv) there should be some control, shouldnt there? | 14:51 |
| MangoFusion | shouldn't the disclaim all responsibility legal notice be in the startup wizard? | 14:51 |
| macoute | GeneralAntilles: they do control your taxes as well | 14:51 |
| RST38h | General: Because once you do, you are gonna exit with much lighter pockets, in the best case | 14:51 |
| macoute | if everyone who has a tv would happily pay their fee, i doubt they would continue driving vans on you neighborhood | 14:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right, pointless discussion. | 14:52 |
| lardman | macoute: that would feed unemployment though | 14:53 |
| lardman | ;) | 14:53 |
| macoute | lardman: that true :) | 14:53 |
| lardman | perhaps we should be taxed per-TV rather than per-household | 14:53 |
| lardman | like car tax | 14:53 |
| RST38h | yea, just make all tvs more expensive | 14:53 |
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| RST38h | they are already twice expensive inUK than in US... | 14:54 |
| * aquatix will watch tv on his pc then | 14:54 | |
| lardman | well the fee is ~£135/year, so it would be pretty expensive | 14:54 |
| macoute | i think that the best way to fund public channels is the tv fee | 14:54 |
| RST38h | 135 pounds a year? oh shit | 14:54 |
| lardman | yep | 14:54 |
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| macoute | if it is funded by government, governement gets to decide what we watch. | 14:54 |
| RST38h | It is like buying BBC a new tv set every year | 14:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's funded by us, actually. | 14:55 |
| RST38h | macoute: Well, formally BBC has some kind of an independent council | 14:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | We _are_ the government, despite whatever politicians want you to believe. | 14:55 |
| aquatix | in soviet UK, the government is you! | 14:55 |
| * qwerty12 makes knives legal | 14:56 | |
| RST38h | General: you are not. | 14:56 |
| RST38h | Better get rid of wrong assumptions now. | 14:56 |
| lardman | qwerty12: legal? I've got some in my kitchen, am I going to be taken away? | 14:56 |
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| qwerty12 | lardman: Yes, you were. But now, you can take them anywhere and do whatever with them. | 14:57 |
| macoute | i don't want day-to-day politics to have any influence in the programs YLE (the BBC of Finland) shows (I mean, it shouldnt be leftish when we have leftish government and so on) | 14:57 |
| macoute | (though YLE is kinda leftish atm too) :) | 14:57 |
| qwerty12 | You can only count something as a bbc equivalent if it shows eastenders. | 14:57 |
| aquatix | macoute: you damn commies ;) | 14:57 |
| lardman | qwerty12: why would I want to take anything more than a 4" knife anywhere with me anyway? | 14:58 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: oh noes! they showed eastenders here iirc | 14:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you need to cut some meat. | 14:58 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: Street shanking | 14:58 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: It's illegal to kill most stuff here | 14:58 |
| qwerty12 | aquatix: nice one | 14:58 |
| lardman | qwerty12: hmm | 14:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, what if it's already dead? | 14:58 |
| pupnik810 | macoute, maybe... massive 5minute lag here .... | 14:58 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: or undead! | 14:59 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: use your teeth - that's what incisors are for isn't it? | 14:59 |
| aquatix | lardman: won't help much against zombies, no would it? | 14:59 |
| aquatix | *now | 14:59 |
| solmumaha | macoute: i'd lose yle in a heartbeat if it was possible | 15:00 |
| lardman | I'd prefer something longer range | 15:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seriously. Sounds like a good way to get infected with rage | 15:00 |
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| lardman | give me a jo any day | 15:00 |
| aquatix | lardman: I... have a Nerf gun? | 15:00 |
| macoute | solmumaha: so you really think jim or nelonen would be just enough? :D | 15:00 |
| lardman | :) | 15:00 |
| lardman | sounds ideal | 15:00 |
| * lardman heads off to Spanish class | 15:00 | |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|learning | 15:00 | |
| RST38h | if I can't kill most of the stuff | 15:00 |
| macoute | solmumaha: i actually value for example last nights program about the elections. didnt see that one from JIM? :) | 15:00 |
| RST38h | then can I kill at least SOME? | 15:01 |
| RST38h | can I at least desecrate some plants or something? | 15:01 |
| solmumaha | macoute: well maybe not but i could live without it | 15:01 |
| macoute | solmumaha: you could live, stupidly :) | 15:01 |
| solmumaha | macoute: they are not worth 200 e / year | 15:01 |
| macoute | solmumaha: well thats another question. but I value yle areena too | 15:02 |
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| solmumaha | i can read the news elsewhere, only thing i would miss would prolly be ice hockey | 15:02 |
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| solmumaha | and that would give me a reason to visit someone | 15:02 |
| aquatix | or watch the stream? | 15:03 |
| solmumaha | it's annoying you can't watch commercial channels only without paying for yle which i so rarely watch | 15:03 |
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| * aquatix thinks that if his gf stopped watching tv, we could as well quit the subscription | 15:04 | |
| qwerty12 | aquatix: hypnotise into thinking tv is worthless | 15:05 |
| qwerty12 | ^her | 15:05 |
| aquatix | :) | 15:05 |
| qwerty12 | :P | 15:05 |
| aquatix | well, there are some series that aren't streamed from their sites, so she watches those live on tv | 15:05 |
| aquatix | already watches quite a lot online | 15:05 |
| aquatix | but she dislikes not having subtitles, so she doesn't torrent US series and such | 15:06 |
| aquatix | reminds me | 15:06 |
| * aquatix has to order some Dr Who dvd boxes | 15:06 | |
| qwerty12 | Heh, none of us are deaf, but I grew up watching tv with subs and now I can't live w/out them >.< | 15:06 |
| * RST38h should download some DrWho series | 15:06 | |
| aquatix | qwerty12: well, she doesn't want to listen closely and translate from english while all she wants is relax from work | 15:07 |
| derf | I stopped watching the new ones. | 15:07 |
| derf | They were awful. | 15:07 |
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| aquatix | derf: ah? | 15:07 |
| * aquatix has to see season 3 and 4 yet | 15:07 | |
| * qwerty12 shoves David Tennant in the retardis and pisses on the retardis and sets fire to it | 15:07 | |
| aquatix | and the spin-off | 15:07 |
| derf | Some trick after you've pissed on it. | 15:08 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: hey! | 15:08 |
| aquatix | derf: *g* | 15:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | derf, qwerty12 pisses gasoline | 15:08 |
| qwerty12 | Yer, I'll get him to lick it off and then douse it in petrol. | 15:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | didn't you hear? | 15:08 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: or only a tiny bit ;) | 15:08 |
| pupnik810 | aquatix, i was just biking around .nl to see what life there feels like ---- | 15:08 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: ... | 15:08 |
| * RST38h is asking qwerty very very nicely | 15:08 | |
| t_s_o | ugh, what is it with wanting huge, multi-feature programs? | 15:08 |
| RST38h | almost sugarly... | 15:09 |
| aquatix | pupnik810: ah? :) | 15:09 |
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| derf | t_s_o: I blame Windows. | 15:09 |
| RST38h | qwerty, what will it take to finally replace those category buttons in app manager with a grid of icons? | 15:09 |
| RST38h | without borders, black background, you know... | 15:09 |
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| Jaffa | Easy, but where do you get the icons from? | 15:10 |
| t_s_o | derf: was that just a cheap jab at windows, or can you elaborate on it? | 15:10 |
| aquatix | RST38h: well, don't we need pre-defined categories then? | 15:10 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: you need a defined list of categories (like what aquatix just said) | 15:10 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: No problem, I will steal some from a gtk or kde theme | 15:10 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: current list is ok | 15:10 |
| RST38h | + a default icon for new ones | 15:10 |
| derf | Well, the Unix philsophy is small tools that do only one thing. | 15:10 |
| t_s_o | and that can be stringed together to do large tasks | 15:10 |
| aquatix | t_s_o: maybe because windows suffers from featuritis too? | 15:10 |
| * Jaffa would rather the category list matched the package view, especially if the package view will contain sub-categories | 15:11 | |
| RST38h | I suggest we have icons for each of the existing categories + have 1 extra icon for new category | 15:11 |
| aquatix | the whole platform generally | 15:11 |
| derf | Ergo large multifeature programs must be from some other OS's philsophy. | 15:11 |
| aquatix | a bit like kde ;) | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: top category list does not have to match package view, but for new users it has ot be catchy | 15:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, good luck finding sensible icons. | 15:11 |
| t_s_o | heh, funny enough i use kde on my desktop, but not 4.x (so far) | 15:12 |
| RST38h | General: it is easier than it sounds | 15:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | That will clearly tell people exactly what's in each category. | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: true | 15:12 |
| pupnik810 | aquatix, 5\3 | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I still think they should have them. | 15:12 |
| RST38h | General: Because KDE themes already have them premade afaik | 15:12 |
| lcuk | the worst thing about package manager currently is that teeeny tiny little farty downarraow i 100% must hit everytime i want to look down the list. everything else is fluff | 15:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | But text shouldn't go away. | 15:12 |
| t_s_o | still, kde is much more a case of many small parts then having big apps with overlapping features | 15:12 |
| RST38h | Yes, I guess texts should just become smaller | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: if the packages are based on freedesktop.org's menu - Ubuntu and every other distro have /some/ form of icon for them | 15:12 |
| pupnik810 | aquatix, the flat landscape+canals feels verry strange :) | 15:12 |
| aquatix | pupnik810: err, that's a 5 out of 3? you liked it here? ;) | 15:12 |
| aquatix | ah :) | 15:13 |
| aquatix | yeah, it's an interesting country sight | 15:13 |
| pupnik810 | fn key + "the" | 15:13 |
| aquatix | ah :) | 15:13 |
| pupnik810 | can n8x0 cam do streaming + motion recognition yet? | 15:14 |
| aquatix | the first time i travelled through hilly land, i couldn't stop watching :) | 15:14 |
| RST38h | I will find icons as soon as I get junior off my hands | 15:14 |
| pupnik810 | vgba is truly kickass now.... is video lib ready to share RST38h ? | 15:16 |
| RST38h | it is | 15:16 |
| RST38h | just need to package, will do it tonight if kicked hard enough | 15:16 |
| * qwerty12 dropkicks RST38h from Moscow to Vladivostok | 15:17 | |
| pupnik810 | no hurry from me | 15:17 |
| RST38h | hey, it is 12 hour flight | 15:17 |
| t_s_o | hmm, zx spectrum in my pocket, there is something weird about that... | 15:18 |
| aquatix | t_s_o: :) | 15:19 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: good blog post - exactly what I was thinking the other day we *cough* should be doing | 15:19 |
| t_s_o | hmm, seeing images of them gives me the feel that i ones played around with a green colored one at some point... | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | mm, debian base at 87.8m, too big? | 15:20 |
| solmumaha | hmm, i really need to get rid of some tablets, anyone interested on 770/n800? :) | 15:21 |
| Stskeeps | i gladly take 770 donations to get deblet on them | 15:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I'm not making any more until somebody else makes one. :P | 15:21 |
| solmumaha | Stskeeps: but then i wouldn't have a 770 to put it on | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 15:22 |
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| * qwerty12 has to work out why apt-worker is being anal retentive | 15:24 | |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I did a patch which gave you your grid view - and it's been applied :-p | 15:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, then I guess I'll pick on lardman, tim or etrunko. | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: on tablet.. is busybox replacements symlinks or hardlinks? | 15:26 |
| Jaffa | Phew, slopey shouldered that one | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | to busybox | 15:26 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: no idea | 15:26 |
| qwerty12 | (And I'm too lazy to check :P) | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | i have a very interesting observation if i'm right then | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: installing coreutils in debian when busybox is installed with hardlinks doesn't nuke busybox | 15:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman may be able to dodge it if he kicks in some h-a-m patches | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: and symlinks is what maemo has | 15:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | etrunko probably gets a pass for Canola b10 | 15:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't worry though, only delaying the inevitable. :P | 15:28 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: so if maemo can stop being silly and using symlinks.. :P | 15:29 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 15:30 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: I think it's more of a thing with busybox setting coreutils as a conflict | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 15:31 |
| qwerty12 | because apt-get will then be set to remove busybox and a lot of shit in maemo depends on busybox | 15:31 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, which is kinda weird though | 15:31 |
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| Stskeeps | it should depend on coreutils instead | 15:31 |
| qwerty12 | I just open /var/lib/dpkg/status and remove conflicts as I see fit. I've done that successfully to install procps & debianutils | 15:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't some of the initscripts fail on coreutils? | 15:31 |
| qwerty12 | nah | 15:32 |
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| Stskeeps | that's kinda fail though | 15:32 |
| qwerty12 | yer, but dodgy stuff by maemo requires me to do dodgy stuff to revert it | 15:32 |
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| qwerty12 | Easier way is to rebuild busybox without a conflicts line in the deb... | 15:33 |
| RST38h | Jaffa,qwerty: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:GNOME_Desktop_icon_theme | 15:33 |
| RST38h | See gnome-application-* | 15:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, in response to m-vo not wanting to define the categories at the h-a-m level, what about pulling in a list from maemo.org? | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: i'm just investigating how to "reconstruct" maemo in a sane way | 15:34 |
| * GeneralAntilles throws a Time to Blog TODO at etrunko. | 15:35 | |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: A list could be held in the repository. | 15:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Presumably with the one from repository.maemo.org being the authoritative one. | 15:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The idea seems a bit better if you consider the Downloads integration I'd like to see coded up. | 15:36 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Yes, we should write up a plan for that too ;) | 15:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Step 1. Make sure Downloads can beat a snails pace. | 15:37 |
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| Stskeeps | hm, jffs2 compressed 100mb debian image, at 41mb | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | with 199 to spare | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | (or less?) | 15:39 |
| qwerty12 | Planning on flashing it? :P | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | did cross my mind | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | and this is a decently workable image, too | 15:40 |
| qwerty12 | If I can get g_serial to work, I'll try it | 15:40 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I'd been wondering that. Might be a bit too heavyweight, and complex to define - but it's an idea which might be worth further diiscussion if two of us have come up with it | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | hehe.. right now it would be only sane as a chroot image | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | but with upstart on top.. | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | and some actual init | 15:41 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, maybe not then :P | 15:41 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: but imagine a system where you use unionfs on the flash and extending with the internal SD | 15:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I mean, a bytes-sized text file with a list of valid categories (and icons?) | 15:42 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: s/unionfs/aufs :P | 15:42 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: or that yeah | 15:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wouldn't be anywhere near the weight of the Packages file. | 15:42 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: how does it handle deleting files though? | 15:43 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: unionfs requires a custom kernel. The aufs module I did insmod's successfully on any 2.6.21-omap1 kernel | 15:43 |
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| * lcuk soundsm ore northern than ever | 15:43 | |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Not sure. I still haven't got around to repartitioning my 1gb to ext3 | 15:43 |
| Stskeeps | k | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | milhouse, "Applications"? Seriously? :P | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: remember offhand how big the rootfs partition is? | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | on diablo | 15:45 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: 255488 blocks | 15:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | 4MB+2MB+9KB-256MB | 15:45 |
| Stskeeps | k | 15:46 |
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| lcuk | doesnt that segfault? 4+2+0.09-256 (roughly) | 15:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12 rushed my reply | 15:47 |
| qwerty12 | That's nice | 15:47 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: blocks of what size? :> | 15:47 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: blocks :P. I don't have much info here :p | 15:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, we've got 256MB to work with, right? | 15:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | The initfs partition is 4MB? | 15:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | The kernel partition is 2MB? | 15:49 |
| qwerty12 | Exactly | 15:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | NOLO and config make up somwhere in the range of 5-15KB, right? | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 15:49 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: 255488 blocks in kb, just realised it now >.< | 15:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Add that up, and subtract it from 256MB | 15:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's your answer | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | so we should go towards approx 250 mb, ideally stuff to spare :P | 15:50 |
| johnx_ | remember jffs2 compression :) | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i think i enabled it | 15:51 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: ...and i18n versions for all supported languages, and extended descriptions | 15:51 |
| johnx_ | sorry, jumped in halfway :/ | 15:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, so maybe a few KB? | 15:51 |
| Jaffa | :) | 15:53 |
| Stskeeps | johnx_: got a 41mb image for debian system with coreutils + some busybox replacements | 15:54 |
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| Stskeeps | quite minimal, no init and stuff (yet) though | 15:54 |
| johnx_ | sounds good | 15:55 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: i'm just wondering if it's more sane to try with ubuntu arm packages to make things easier :P | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | +el | 15:55 |
| johnx | hmm? why is ubuntu more sane?? | 15:56 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: easier to get to work with upstart possibly | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | but then again i might be wrong | 15:59 |
| disco_stu | hi | 15:59 |
| johnx | well easier to get working with upstart probably | 15:59 |
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| paines | hi | 16:09 |
| paines | i am trying to build a debug package of dbus from chinook . i unpacked the tarball and now I am trying to do fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage which fails. then I untarred dbus-1.0.2.tar.gz and tried again and now I see that the patches are not applied. why is that ? | 16:11 |
| woglinde | paines because the patches resides in debian/patches | 16:12 |
| woglinde | and are apllied at debian/rules patch: line | 16:13 |
| woglinde | when you invokde dpkg-buildpackage | 16:13 |
| woglinde | or debiam/rules patch | 16:13 |
| woglinde | args debian/rules | 16:13 |
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| paines | woglinde: i don't get it. cause normaly when you get a debian-sources tarball you just unpack it and you have the sources + debian direcoty and you just call dpkg-buildpackage, patches are applied (etc) and, sources are build and deb's are beeing made. | 16:18 |
| johnx | so you applied the diff.gz that goes with it? | 16:18 |
| paines | but now for the dbus mamo package after aunpacking i again have a tarball + debian directory which leaves kind of iritated | 16:18 |
| paines | no | 16:19 |
| qwerty12 | paines: Did you get the diff file as well and was it extracted with dpkg-source -x <whatever>.dsc | 16:19 |
| paines | there was none | 16:19 |
| paines | let me check, but iirc there was no diff | 16:19 |
| johnx | yeah, guess you're right. That's odd... | 16:20 |
| paines | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook-beta/free/d/dbus/ | 16:20 |
| paines | there no diff | 16:20 |
| johnx | is there a reason you're pulling from chinook beta? | 16:20 |
| woglinde | paines they is apt-get source moopackage | 16:20 |
| woglinde | args the way | 16:20 |
| woglinde | paines if you setup sources.list right | 16:20 |
| paines | johnx: no, but i cheked for maemo 4.1 and it is the same | 16:20 |
| johnx | paines, not really, it's several revisions older... | 16:21 |
| johnx | it might not solve the problem, but it's probably worth a try | 16:22 |
| paines | johnx: no i mean the package from chinook and memo 4.1 look the same aftre unpacking | 16:22 |
| johnx | ah | 16:22 |
| paines | of course the content is different | 16:22 |
| woglinde | johnx I think he means same in "both has tar.gz and patcjes" | 16:22 |
| woglinde | hehe | 16:22 |
| paines | yeah | 16:22 |
| paines | :-) | 16:22 |
| johnx | woglinde, yeah, just got it | 16:22 |
| paines | so how wold you guys build that package from source ? | 16:23 |
| paines | apt-source and apt-build ?!? | 16:23 |
| woglinde | paines apt-get source moopackages | 16:23 |
| woglinde | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot | 16:23 |
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| paines | i see. okay. i have a scratchbox install, amybe it will JUST work, hoefully | 16:24 |
| paines | thanks for helps+tips guys | 16:24 |
| johnx | sure, hope it works | 16:24 |
| woglinde | no prob | 16:24 |
| qwerty12 | paines: yep, I just tried it, the patches are being applied | 16:24 |
| woglinde | if the deb-src lines are in sources.list it will work | 16:24 |
| paines | qwerty12: how did you do it ? | 16:25 |
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| qwerty12 | paines: apt-get source dbus ; cd dbus-1.0.2 ; dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot . Basically what was said on here :/ | 16:25 |
| woglinde | hm anyone knows when I do on the nokia xkbcomp -xkm $MYDISPLAY nokia_mo.xkm which license the .xkm file has? | 16:26 |
| paines | okay, then I guess apt-source is doing some magic like applying patches | 16:26 |
| qwerty12 | paines: Not at all :) | 16:26 |
| paines | qwerty12: then I have a reason to hate mondays even more | 16:27 |
| johnx | maybe the chinook beta version is just messed up? | 16:27 |
| woglinde | paines apt-get source gets the original.tar.gz | 16:27 |
| woglinde | and applies the debin changes | 16:27 |
| paines | AHA | 16:27 |
| qwerty12 | paines: Heh. If you just need a straight build from the chinook-beta I'd be happy to do it (though I'm in a diablo sdk) | 16:27 |
| woglinde | so let me see if my libnxcl stuff hits the archive | 16:28 |
| woglinde | then qtnx is on the way | 16:28 |
| qwerty12 | Cool, I've never tried nx (vnc & xrdp person myself) but I guess, first time for everything :) | 16:29 |
| paines | is it fast ? | 16:29 |
| woglinde | qwerty if you want X-protocoll via grps its the way | 16:29 |
| qwerty12 | Heh, I never connect through a phone though it may be useful over wifi. | 16:30 |
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| woglinde | hm but you need to do some steps on the server, otherwise you do not have a sane keymap | 16:31 |
| woglinde | hm I should put this in to a README file too | 16:31 |
| qwerty12 | Well, a clean compile with a diff of my modifications applied stopped apt-worker from killing itself. | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i might have a bloody interesting thing in a sec.. | 16:33 |
| johnx | an interesting bloody thing? | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: ubuntu hasty (from mojo), 35mb jffs2, no docpurge or anything, just simple minbase | 16:35 |
| johnx | pretty neat | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | fully functional | 16:35 |
| johnx | boots on its own? | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | it has upstart and all so i guess it would be a workable sys | 16:35 |
| etrunko | GeneralAntilles: thanks for remembering... I'm trying to contact people about the logo/redesign issue | 16:36 |
| woglinde | qwerty12 do you have a n810? | 16:36 |
| qwerty12 | woglinde: N800 only | 16:36 |
| paines | great guys. I didn't know that apt-get source would pull and apply the patch. now it builded all fine together with debug packges. MANY THANKS ! | 16:37 |
| qwerty12 | I've done the following to application manager: http://pastebin.com/d3408dfa1 . Any more requests? | 16:37 |
| johnx | paines, it didn't do anything different... | 16:38 |
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| woglinde | qwerty12 hm sorry then qtnx is not useable | 16:39 |
| qwerty12 | Ok :) | 16:39 |
| woglinde | because of the keyboard | 16:39 |
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| paines | johnx: yeah but I did, cause i thought just downoading the tarball via wget and building it is enough | 16:40 |
| vincenzo88 | Re, someone have the default password to beeing root on maemo OS on N810 ? | 16:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~root-access | 16:40 |
| infobot | root-access is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access | 16:40 |
| woglinde | paines this works for debian for over 10 years now | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | Starting Mail Transport Agent (MTA): sendmailmake: Warning: File `Makefile' has modification time 1.2e+09 s in the future | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | wtf really.. | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | why run a makefile when starting sendmail | 16:40 |
| johnx | paines, it is. I'm guessing apt-get pulled the latest version, which probably had changes to fix whatever was wrong with the old one you tried to build first | 16:40 |
| vincenzo88 | Thanks ! | 16:40 |
| paines | woglinde: :-P | 16:41 |
| paines | woglinde: now I know how it works | 16:41 |
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| paines | lol. no space left on device when installing. darn mondays. | 16:45 |
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| woglinde | hm is there a site where all n810 keyboard layouts are shown in picture? | 16:50 |
| * GeneralAntilles sets up internet sharing to test #2478 | 16:51 | |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: 38mb (jffs) (87mb unpacked) base ubuntu system.. think this might be interesting? fully optimized for tablet | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | and has these packages: | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/pack.txt | 16:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Probably interesting to somebody, though not to me. | 16:55 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 16:55 |
| Stskeeps | (i see it as a possible base for a maemo :P) | 16:56 |
| _berto_ | who maintains the maemo extras repo ? | 16:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hit the mailing list. | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | _berto_, maemo.org | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Contact X-Fade if you need something. | 16:56 |
| _berto_ | ok | 16:56 |
| _berto_ | X-Fade: are you there? :) | 16:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, I think the settings that stick in Red Pill should just be moved to a Blue Pill prefs dialog. | 16:57 |
| * RST38h is back | 16:57 | |
| X-Fade | _berto_: always. | 16:57 |
| RST38h | qwerty, Jaffa: still here? | 16:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe make the check for prefs per-pref instead of for the whole thing? | 16:58 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: I'd like to do that but every time I made an attempt to; h-a-m crashed when changing those settings in blue pill :( | 16:58 |
| RST38h | Anyways, icon themes that contain icons for the app manager: | 16:59 |
| RST38h | http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Icons_themes | 16:59 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Sure, but you know I can't program :P | 16:59 |
| RST38h | Gnome Desktop, Tango, Silk, Noia, Nuvola | 16:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want these: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Arimaa_graphics | 16:59 |
| qwerty12 | Ooh, playboy bunny | 16:59 |
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| qwerty12 | +1 for Arimaa | 16:59 |
| * GeneralAntilles chuckles at the attitude in qwerty12's announcement. | 17:00 | |
| qwerty12 | Hehe, swearing is a habit to me now :/ :P | 17:00 |
| qwerty12 | Forgot to upload the diff... | 17:01 |
| lcuk | you are gettin old and forgetful | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | The "Settings" string needs to change to "Settings..." | 17:01 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: Not like you yet :P | 17:02 |
| RST38h | General: yeek | 17:02 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: Good point, I think it can be changed in locales. lemme see | 17:02 |
| RST38h | and what software category is supposed to be denoted with a golden rabbit? | 17:02 |
| lcuk | at least i know im an old coot, it will make me happy to simply watch you panic :P | 17:02 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: XXX soft | 17:02 |
| RST38h | umgh...I do not think we have any in Extras | 17:03 |
| lcuk | give the rabbit a black body and it can be battery apps | 17:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12 I still see magic:sys and stuff outside of user/ by default in Red Pill. | 17:03 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: It's because it's using your old settings file which has that enabled :/ | 17:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, right. | 17:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fair enough. | 17:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe change it during the postinst? | 17:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or maybe just don't worry about it | 17:04 |
| qwerty12 | Yep, could be done :). Though I'm not great on sed knowledge. | 17:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sure m-vo has a plan. | 17:04 |
| RST38h | Poor Paris Hilton is the latest victim of the financial apocalypse which has ripped across our planet, with London clubs offering the talented amateur porn flick performer as little as ¸25k a pop to enhance their premises with her magnetic charms. | 17:04 |
| RST38h | Oh the horror | 17:04 |
| RST38h | what do you want to do with sed again? | 17:05 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: yep, still here | 17:05 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Check the above themes - they have got pretty much all you need | 17:05 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Replace some lines. I know how to do it but I get a little confused >.< | 17:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, any chance you could make the grid more dynamic? | 17:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | In fullscreen, it looks like I can fit 4 columns. | 17:06 |
| RST38h | if you use icons, you sould be able to fit all categories onto the screen ;) | 17:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, you can probably drop "BitTorrent Client" from the Maemo-Display-Name. | 17:07 |
| qwerty12 | It looks cooler though :P | 17:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, but looking at it in my dock here it says "Transmission" :P | 17:08 |
| qwerty12 | I'll do it if I do any more with the source, I can't warrant uploading a new version to the autobuilder with just that change | 17:08 |
| qwerty12 | Hehe :P | 17:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Fair enough | 17:08 |
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| qwerty12 | Ok, fixing the Settings should be easy enough, just rebuilding a new version with that fix... | 17:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I still feel like I want a Media player-style view changer for h-a-m | 17:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Maybe not exactly like that, but toolbar selection would be nice. | 17:17 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: What'd be better is a flowing set of icons which wraps at the appropriate width, or a GtkTreeView (which I think'd be best, with icons for the categories, but then the code'll be very similar between the category list and the package/sub-category list) | 17:19 |
| X-Fade | And if you need to scroll -> thumb scroll bar ;) | 17:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd so rather have a nice flickable list | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scrollbars suck | 17:23 |
| X-Fade | Kinetic scrolling? :) | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's the one thing I just love about the iPhone. | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | flick-flick-flick | 17:23 |
| X-Fade | Use the widget from mauku? | 17:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Works very much the way my mouse works | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gotta love that MX Revulotion | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/Revulotion/Revolution/ | 17:24 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Gotta love that MX Revolution | 17:24 |
| summatusmentis | ooh, classy | 17:24 |
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| lardman | are we still talking about AM? | 17:28 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Yes. | 17:30 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: or just wait for fremantle when everything's going to be drag-to-scroll | 17:30 |
| * Jaffa doesn't want to end up doing patching on H-A-M which is going to get done anyway with Nokia's own widgets | 17:31 | |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Fine by me, but are you sure it will be that way? :) | 17:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fremantle will have inertial scrolling. | 17:32 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: Fairly sure: from what ragnar's said, and #2564, and what was talked about at the summit. | 17:32 |
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| Jaffa | Certainly, if it's as crap as it is now, I may well leave in a huff ;-) | 17:33 |
| lardman | In which case my pet hates are no multi-select for install/remove and reloading the entire list view whenever something changes | 17:33 |
| lopz | hola | 17:33 |
| X-Fade | lardman: multiselect and scrolling, that will be an interesting thing to fix ;) | 17:34 |
| X-Fade | lardman: unless there is some tickbox or 'shopping cart' like behavior. | 17:34 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: Let's hope that if multi-selecti is implemented, it's not like the file manager... | 17:34 |
| lardman | yes, tickbox works well | 17:34 |
| qwerty12 | -i | 17:34 |
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| lardman | http://old.hackndev.com/node/208 | 17:35 |
| lardman | for example | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | Well, that is a nightmare with your fingers ;) | 17:36 |
| X-Fade | But I guess if you size it up... | 17:36 |
| lardman | yes, no need to have the user tick the boxes, they click as usual on the name to select deselect, then just another button to apply changes | 17:36 |
| Jaffa | Sounds good. Especially with a nice, finger-friendly UI | 17:39 |
| * GAN800 likes it when two short presses on esc becomes one long press | 17:40 | |
| Jaffa | Almost like some kind of app store, or /downloads/, rather than a dpkg | 17:40 |
| Jaffa | -replacement | 17:40 |
| MangoFusion | yikes. Those package names are *tiny*! | 17:41 |
| lardman | yeah, probably got the dpi wrong for the build | 17:41 |
| MangoFusion | i think i'll need a magnifying glass | 17:41 |
| MangoFusion | ;) | 17:41 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: yesss | 17:42 |
| qwerty12 | GAN800: Ok, Settings renamed to Settings... and show magic and show all packages are set to be disabled during postinst... | 17:42 |
| * Jaffa can't see why we /really/ need downloads.maemo.org when the AM could be it (most of the time) | 17:42 | |
| RST38h | Jaffa: we still need the site for more extensive information | 17:42 |
| lardman | Jaffa: Agreed, if the AM could pull up a bit of blurb and a screenshot in some view | 17:43 |
| RST38h | screenshots, download statistrics, ratings, etc etc | 17:43 |
| lardman | could all be done in the AM still | 17:43 |
| RST38h | don't discount downloads.maemo.org right away | 17:43 |
| RST38h | lardman: yes, but it is so much easier to do in html | 17:43 |
| RST38h | updating and improving it in am will be royal pain. | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | Another idea would be to have a 'local' d.m.o though the webruntime. | 17:44 |
| lardman | it could be done in html still, allow the AM to open some html for extra blurb | 17:44 |
| RST38h | let us not involve web runtime :) | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | And run the installer only called by mime ;) | 17:44 |
| RST38h | I realy think the ideal would be to have iPhone-like categories icon view at the top and collapsible trees underneath | 17:45 |
| lardman | RST38h: if we assume it's loaded most of the time anyway then why not? ;) | 17:45 |
| RST38h | lardman: I hope I won't live to that time. = | 17:46 |
| lardman | RST38h: it would be nice to use though, assuming it was quick enough | 17:46 |
| lardman | how is the iphone itunes interface done? that works very nicely | 17:47 |
| RST38h | lardman: whatever it will be, you can be assured that it will be slow and buggy | 17:47 |
| RST38h | will eat memory too | 17:47 |
| lardman | RST38h: lol, well we're talking about ideas here, not the end result | 17:47 |
| lardman | will use memory, no need to eat it | 17:47 |
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| RST38h | I automatically filter out unrealistic ideas | 17:48 |
| lardman | hmm | 17:48 |
| RST38h | otherwise we will ebd up with another browserd | 17:49 |
| RST38h | s/ebd/end/ | 17:49 |
| infobot | RST38h meant: otherwise we will end up with another browserd | 17:49 |
| lardman | I'm not saying it's ideal, but if we want something that looks good, and provides the info, and html is the easiest way to provide that info, then adding some sort of html rendering is the way to go | 17:50 |
| lardman | I don't see that as being overly unrealistic, perhaps not as super quick as people might like, but if it makes people's lives easier (and multi-media richer) then why not | 17:51 |
| RST38h | doesn't make my life easier if I do not know whether it runs today or decides to crash | 17:51 |
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| RST38h | and that has been my experience with "web environments" on mobile devices so far | 17:52 |
| lardman | well that';s a fault in the renderer backend, nothing wrong with the idea ;) | 17:52 |
| lardman | Each to his/her own, I think pretty is good (and the interesting bit is making it pretty and quick enough) | 17:53 |
| RST38h | You are like a typical compiler guy, blaming, in succession: 1) other compilers, 2) underlying OS, 3) programmer who write "wrong" programs, 4) CPU his compiler creates code for | 17:53 |
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| RST38h | All I care about as a user is that this thing is snappy and does nto crash | 17:54 |
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| RST38h | Don't care who is to blame. | 17:54 |
| lardman | RST38h: if you don't attribute blame then nothing gets done | 17:54 |
| RST38h | lardman: If I avoid known pitfalls, I won't need to attribute blame, at least to the pitfalls I have just avoided | 17:54 |
| lardman | ok, I understand that | 17:55 |
| lardman | I just assume that if something isn't working properly, people will get round to fixing it if there's some interest in getting it done | 17:55 |
| RST38h | lardman: amusingly, no | 17:56 |
| RST38h | lardman: Just look at Java. Or any of XML standards. | 17:56 |
| woglinde | ah nice | 17:57 |
| GAN800 | Why not embed browserd? | 17:57 |
| woglinde | qtnx builds fine | 17:57 |
| lardman | I don't use any of them | 17:57 |
| GAN800 | that's what it's there for. . . . | 17:57 |
| woglinde | and should be in extra soon | 17:57 |
| woglinde | aeh extras-devel | 17:57 |
| RST38h | lardman: oh, you should try, just not on the full stomach ;) | 17:57 |
| RST38h | GAN: Embed where? | 17:57 |
| lardman | RST38h: if I did, and they annoyed me, I'd be motivated to start patching | 17:57 |
| lardman | RST38h: I mean I have no need for them | 17:57 |
| RST38h | lardman: The amount of crap there is so incredible that you would probably walk away | 17:58 |
| RST38h | lardman: That is why they continue to be what they are | 17:58 |
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| qwerty12 | Hrm, seems like the LCARS bug with application manager was fixed. Let me install LCARS to see if I can backport it. | 18:01 |
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| t_s_o | nice work on the app manager mod, qwerty12 :) | 18:18 |
| qwerty12 | t_s_o: Thanks :). Hopefully mvo can deem it invalid soon with a official release for diablo :) | 18:19 |
| t_s_o | :P | 18:19 |
| qwerty12 | I'll carry on backporting his fixes meanwhile :P | 18:19 |
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| aquatix | qwerty12: btw, that xterm mod was yours right? | 18:24 |
| qwerty12 | aquatix: yeah | 18:24 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: it has the same version as the official one | 18:24 |
| aquatix | so the appmgr wants to install that one again | 18:24 |
| aquatix | don't you have that problem? | 18:25 |
| qwerty12 | aquatix: Yeah, I didn't mess with that because nokia really may put out an update. You can edit the deb and change the version number (epoch it with -mod1 or something) or use apt-get pinning | 18:25 |
| qwerty12 | Yer, but I ignore it :) | 18:25 |
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| aquatix | heh, kk :) | 18:25 |
| aquatix | it's sometimes convenient to hit `update all' though ;) | 18:26 |
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| qwerty12 | I use apt-get upgrade and look at what wants to be updated and then use apt-get install <updated package name> :P | 18:26 |
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| aquatix | fair enough | 18:27 |
| aquatix | i generally hit that blinking orange ! | 18:27 |
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| aquatix | or hit the update button in appmgr compulsively ;) | 18:27 |
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| aquatix | anyways, time to go home | 18:27 |
| aquatix | *grin* @ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7693386.stm | 18:29 |
| qwerty12 | lmao | 18:29 |
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| t_s_o | ugh, dont use a phone on the can, use a handsfree! | 18:29 |
| aquatix | t_s_o: then you have to fish out your bt headset ;) | 18:30 |
| qwerty12 | I feel sorry for the guy but I cant help laughing :P | 18:30 |
| aquatix | ghehe | 18:30 |
| * aquatix neither | 18:30 | |
| aquatix | anyways, going home | 18:30 |
| aquatix | ttyl | 18:31 |
| Fatal | nice wording, almost sounds like they say they had to saw his arm clean off | 18:31 |
| qwerty12 | The lcars bug is fixed, I'll rebuild the package with a fix in a min: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/appman/lcars.png | 18:31 |
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| * qwerty12 is sorry for sounding like a broken record btw | 18:34 | |
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| KamikaziFreak | Who's familiar with the osso-media-server dbus interface? | 18:37 |
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| pupnik | hi - for anyone in germany - debitel has a new great umts contract for 25.50 euro plus an acer aspire one | 18:46 |
| pupnik | <- on new aspire one netbook :) | 18:46 |
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| pupnik | argh, im touching the screen to click on stuff ... :) | 18:46 |
| qwerty12 | Hehe, how is it? :) | 18:47 |
| Proteous | god, the screen has all sorts of fingerprints on it | 18:48 |
| pupnik | dunno yet - it works - like it better than eee so far | 18:48 |
| pupnik | yes, curse this glare screen trend - but i live in dark rooms anyway | 18:49 |
| Proteous | heh | 18:49 |
| pupnik | the best part was i wanted internet NOW. so i walked into the store and walked out with some nice gear and immediate internet | 18:49 |
| pupnik | and the deal is the best one out atm... afaict ... so anyone in germany, check it out | 18:50 |
| macoute | immediate internet :O | 18:50 |
| macoute | i have an immediate internet in my mobile phone but maybe thats just us finns :D | 18:51 |
| macoute | i do have an "immediate internet" (in terms of it works as soon as i walk out of the store) at home too | 18:51 |
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| pupnik | getting a dsl hookup is not immediate. ordering a umts contract +hardware onlineis not immediate ... so i like this | 18:54 |
| pupnik | of course winxp is hurting like a corrosive lye... | 18:54 |
| RST38h | what's wrong with it? | 18:56 |
| pupnik | it just hurts me to use it. hurts like "the box" in DUNE | 18:57 |
| RST38h | you are way too sensitive :) | 18:57 |
| pupnik | true | 18:57 |
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| RST38h | after some thorough cleaning and installing a few apps it feels ok | 18:58 |
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| pupnik | i have visited 3 sites now with IE. wonder if this POS is trojaned zet | 18:58 |
| RST38h | FAR+FireFox+Miranda+WinAmp make it right | 18:58 |
| pupnik | what is FAR? | 18:58 |
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| pupnik | can not google "FAR" | 18:58 |
| RST38h | Norton Commander for Windows | 18:58 |
| RST38h | http://www.farmanager.com/ | 18:59 |
| qwerty12 | Heh, SEFP must be most popular plugin for FAR :> | 18:59 |
| pupnik | oh ok | 18:59 |
| pupnik | ty sir | 18:59 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Among other things. | 18:59 |
| RST38h | pupnik: it lets you avoid Windows Explorer | 18:59 |
| pupnik | oki | 18:59 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Type far manager and see what google suggests. 8/10's are Sony Ericsson stuff | 19:00 |
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| RST38h | I am not getting any SE stuff | 19:00 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, my bad, I mean as in google suggest :/ | 19:00 |
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| solmumaha | pupnik: preparing to install debian yet? | 19:02 |
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| pupnik | no... will play with the windows side for a few hours to see what the hardware can do | 19:07 |
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| pupnik | but gotta admit... the aspire one is a usable device | 19:07 |
| * Mousey disagrees, they're all EeePC ripoffs | 19:07 | |
| Mousey | hay guys, what's goin' on in here? | 19:08 |
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| Mousey | ^_^ | 19:08 |
| Fatal | Mousey: you're a eeepc! | 19:08 |
| Mousey | Fatal: i have one, yah.. my only ubuntu box, everything else is debian | 19:08 |
| Mousey | oh, except my tablet is maemo | 19:08 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 19:08 |
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| pupnik | do we have streaming webcam for n8x0 camera yet? something that can generate mpeg2 stream or smth? | 19:13 |
| * pupnik is experiencing an extended hsdpa orgasm atm | 19:13 | |
| t_s_o | heh, funny, i keep hitting personal menu when i should hit the main menu, and as i have switchonbt in the same place as extras is on the main menu... | 19:14 |
| qwerty12 | pupnik: You can generate a mjpeg one :/ : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20309&highlight=apache | 19:15 |
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| pupnik | ty qwerty12 | 19:18 |
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| pupnik | qwerty12: you have the best nickname ever for tab completion | 19:18 |
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| qwerty12 | hehe | 19:18 |
| pupnik | q+tab | 19:18 |
| macoute | pupnik: in finland dsl's do work immediately in some parts of the country. and at least in helsinki most of the households are on a tv-cablemodem-internet-dongle which works immediately, too | 19:19 |
| Fatal | u+tab is pretty lonesome aswell | 19:19 |
| pupnik | i would love to visit finland soon :) | 19:19 |
| macoute | and getting an umts to work, via a phone or via an umts-dongle should be ready in minutes, hours at max | 19:19 |
| qwerty12 | ^ +1. Except you'll have to give me some years :P | 19:19 |
| macoute | though our internets are kinda expensive :/ | 19:20 |
| macoute | compared to sweden, at least | 19:20 |
| macoute | or japan | 19:20 |
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| solmumaha | macoute: maybe in hellsinki | 19:21 |
| solmumaha | you have really forgotten how it is here in the countryside :) | 19:22 |
| macoute | solmumaha: and joensuu, jyväskylä, lehmo, riihimäki, uusimaa and tampere. at least | 19:22 |
| macoute | thats from elisa.fi | 19:22 |
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| macoute | so we have sonera and local isp's still to check. but youre correct. not (even near) every part of finland gets its adsl's up and running so fast | 19:23 |
| macoute | and where is Lehmo?! :D | 19:23 |
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| Mousey | anyone know the code for |? | 19:29 |
| Mousey | is it "bar"? | 19:29 |
| Mousey | cuz "Bar" doesn't work | 19:29 |
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| mgedmin | Mousey: xev says it's "bar" | 19:35 |
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| Mousey | mgedmin: thanks | 19:36 |
| Mousey | xev you say! | 19:36 |
| * Mousey RTFM's | 19:37 | |
| mgedmin | so, what about x11vnc in extras? | 19:37 |
| Mousey | is that vnc SERVER? | 19:37 |
| Mousey | that'd be so hawt | 19:37 |
| mgedmin | Mousey: xev is a program that shows you details about X events, including the keysym name for keydown events | 19:37 |
| Mousey | mgedmin: thanks | 19:37 |
| mgedmin | it's *much* more convenient (well, less inconvenient) to use on a desktop than on a tablet | 19:37 |
| mgedmin | although I believe there's a port in the tools repository | 19:37 |
| qwerty12 | Penguinbait did a wicked x11vnc which I updated for diablo among other things but it was built with dpkg-deb --build so I can't upload it :( | 19:38 |
| mgedmin | so, no source package? | 19:38 |
| qwerty12 | Nope :( | 19:38 |
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| qwerty12 | It's x11vnc trunk with xrdp and it uses a password to connect | 19:39 |
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| mgedmin | password is nice, but how do you set it? | 19:39 |
| qwerty12 | Run a program called vncpassword as the normal tablet user | 19:40 |
| qwerty12 | *vncpasswd | 19:40 |
| qwerty12 | Then when you connect via a vnc viewer or rdesktop, you are asked for that password that you set | 19:40 |
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| mgedmin | whee, that x11vnc package from garage has a bunch of .jar file inside | 19:46 |
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| mgedmin | yay vnc for my broken-screen n810 | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | for some reason clicking on the app menu doesn't work | 19:48 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah, that plugin depends on pressure info... | 19:49 |
| mgedmin | but os2008 no longer differentiates taps from finger presses! | 19:49 |
| qwerty12 | You can apt-get source hildon-desktop and modify the application plugin if you want :/ | 19:49 |
| mgedmin | actually, did it ever do that for the apps menu? | 19:49 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah, in OS2007 afaik, you would get a different sized menu | 19:50 |
| qwerty12 | depending on what you tapped it with | 19:50 |
| mgedmin | I remember that for the window list, but not for the app menu | 19:50 |
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| qwerty12 | I could be wrong, I only used OS2007 for 10 mins :P | 19:50 |
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| mgedmin | so, is there a "forget all my passwords" option somewhere? | 19:51 |
| mgedmin | I'd reflash, but then I wouldn't have ssh + vnc, so the n810 would be completely useless | 19:51 |
| qwerty12 | For the browser or virtual keyboard? | 19:51 |
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| ccooke | mgedmin: the screen is comepletely broken? | 19:53 |
| mgedmin | for all practical purposes, yes | 19:53 |
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| Mousey | mgedmin: that's happened to me twice | 19:56 |
| Mousey | but i just got it back from repair yay^_^ | 19:56 |
| mgedmin | okay, the browser has 'clear all personal data' | 19:57 |
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| Mousey | so there is a vnc server for maemo, but it has caveats? | 19:58 |
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| mgedmin | Mousey: yep | 19:59 |
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| mgedmin | hmm, the control panel has a 'clear device...' option that sounds intriguing | 20:00 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | /etc/osso-cud-scripts contains scripts it will run if you select that | 20:01 |
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| mgedmin | idea for x11vnc: map left-click to tap and right-click to finger press | 20:02 |
| macoute | is there a way to distinct them easily? | 20:02 |
| qwerty12_N800 | pressure info i guess.. | 20:02 |
| macoute | the size does differ, but does that count? | 20:03 |
| mgedmin | applications are not removed: good | 20:03 |
| mgedmin | documents are removed | 20:03 |
| mgedmin | what about ~/.ssh/authorized_keys? | 20:03 |
| macoute | btw | 20:03 |
| mgedmin | because if I lose that, I'm completely locked out | 20:03 |
| macoute | does anyone use modest w/ several mailboxes? | 20:03 |
| macoute | i dont seem to get it working | 20:03 |
| * Stskeeps continues with his minimal ubuntu maemo | 20:04 | |
| macoute | i have the accounts there and it says that updated last five minutes ago, but my testmail doesnt show up there | 20:04 |
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| mgedmin | I use modest with 2 accounts | 20:05 |
| mgedmin | works fine | 20:05 |
| mgedmin | I find that I need to explicitly hit the refresh icon in the toolbar | 20:06 |
| mgedmin | oops | 20:06 |
| mgedmin | did the clear device thingy | 20:06 |
| macoute | mgedmin: ive tried that too.. | 20:06 |
| mgedmin | now it apparently won't autoconnect to my wifi | 20:06 |
| Mousey | is there a difference between modest and the stock email program? | 20:09 |
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| macoute | Mousey: no | 20:10 |
| macoute | interesting | 20:10 |
| macoute | it does load up my messages | 20:10 |
| macoute | but they arent anywhere | 20:10 |
| macoute | it said loading 1/1700 or so, and asked me to verify the certificate | 20:11 |
| Mousey | i find mail reading to be cumbersome | 20:11 |
| macoute | but, no mail, anywhere | 20:11 |
| macoute | Mousey: cumbersome? | 20:11 |
| macoute | im not familiar with the word | 20:11 |
| Mousey | i finally got server side filtering to work, so i don't care about modest's lack of client side filtering, but the app still kinda feels weird to use for mail reading | 20:11 |
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| lardman | macoute: awkward | 20:12 |
| macoute | lardman: thanks | 20:12 |
| lardman | awkward due to large size/shape is the meaning I understand anyway | 20:12 |
| macoute | i too think that all the email-clients ive tried on tablet are plain bad | 20:12 |
| Mousey | claws mail is the technically best client i've used, but i detest that it's UI is suited more for mouse/stylus.. i can't use my fingers | 20:12 |
| macoute | and even claws mail have the most annoying feature for such a slow device | 20:13 |
| Mousey | modest i can use my fingers, but there's UI changes i'd make if I could | 20:13 |
| macoute | opening every message in a completely new window | 20:13 |
| moontiger | thats one of the things that i really dislike about modest | 20:13 |
| Mousey | that's retarded, yah | 20:13 |
| moontiger | the ui | 20:13 |
| macoute | is there a client which doesnt do that? | 20:13 |
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| macoute | it takes 4-6 seconds to just CHECK if the message is the one you are looking for | 20:13 |
| moontiger | on a finger friendly tablet there is no easy way to switch between account views | 20:14 |
| lardman | it's only annoying as there's significant delay associated with new windows, otherwise is does sort of make sense | 20:14 |
| Mousey | macoute: well there might be a way to configure clawsmail NOT to do that, it has a TON of configuration options.. which i like. | 20:14 |
| moontiger | you also cant change fonts in the app | 20:14 |
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| macoute | Mousey: ive tried searching for it but with no luck so far | 20:14 |
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| Mousey | yah.. mail seems like it would be such a win on the device | 20:14 |
| Mousey | but so far the mail apps are just skimming above fail | 20:15 |
| Mousey | god i wish i could code | 20:15 |
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| macoute | and guys, WHEN is modest checking for new messages on the background and when not? | 20:15 |
| moontiger | i am trying to make some time to start a new mail app project | 20:15 |
| macoute | how to tell that? | 20:15 |
| Mousey | or at least had any influence. i know what i'd change to make it useful | 20:15 |
| moontiger | a finger friendly client | 20:15 |
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| macoute | i mean, open modest, close it from X, send yourself a message and blue led starts blinking | 20:15 |
| macoute | but why? | 20:15 |
| Mousey | moontiger: if you have the skillz, i'd urge you to just change modest's ui to something usable =) | 20:16 |
| macoute | is modest completely open source? | 20:16 |
| lardman | macoute: good question about when it's checking, I've been wondering that too | 20:16 |
| derf | I just want a client that handles multiple IMAP folders and doesn't choke on 20,000 messages in a folder. | 20:16 |
| macoute | lardman: they should have a notification applet | 20:16 |
| moontiger | well that would require the backend not to be a pile of crap code too | 20:16 |
| moontiger | and i dont know that yet | 20:16 |
| macoute | derf: pine? :) | 20:17 |
| derf | I've been using webmail. | 20:17 |
| derf | pine is kind of slow for imap. | 20:17 |
| Mousey | mutt? | 20:17 |
| macoute | i havent seen a imap-client which could do that, derf | 20:17 |
| macoute | mutt then | 20:17 |
| moontiger | 20k messages is a bit overkill for one folder no? | 20:17 |
| derf | Seamonkey works just fine, bur, you know, not on a tablet. | 20:17 |
| derf | *but | 20:17 |
| macoute | does it? | 20:17 |
| derf | Yes. Search-as-you-type is still fast with that many messages. | 20:18 |
| macoute | and actually, you shouldn have 20,000 messages at all | 20:18 |
| macoute | not in single or several folders | 20:18 |
| derf | Well, tell people to stop sending them to me. | 20:18 |
| macoute | no, im telling you to delete them :) | 20:18 |
| derf | Are you crazy? | 20:18 |
| derf | That's how I remember everything. | 20:18 |
| macoute | do you have all your snail mails in folders? | 20:18 |
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| macoute | or all your receits? | 20:19 |
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| derf | No, they're in piles scattered around because I'm too lazy to organize them. | 20:19 |
| * Mousey has all his snail mail in folders.. blames wife | 20:19 | |
| macoute | then why should you have your friend saying 2 and a half years ago "hey man, lets go to a beer!" organized forever? | 20:19 |
| derf | Who said anything about organized? | 20:20 |
| lardman | macoute: so you can remember who owes you one? | 20:20 |
| derf | 20,000 messages in each folder is not organized. | 20:20 |
| Mousey | so you can defend your alibi in court? | 20:20 |
| macoute | lardman: good point :) | 20:20 |
| macoute | derf: i think you got the point still | 20:20 |
| macoute | do you have all your sms:s archived too? | 20:20 |
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| macoute | or recordings of your phone calls? :D | 20:20 |
| derf | Of course not. I don't carry a cell phone. | 20:20 |
| macoute | "ok" | 20:21 |
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| derf | But the point is, you're unlikely to change my behavior at this point. | 20:21 |
| macoute | maybe if you did, you wouldn receive 20,000 mails which choke your client. :) | 20:21 |
| macoute | i know. | 20:21 |
| derf | And I will continue to use webmail until someone writes a real client that doesn't suck. | 20:21 |
| macoute | but from experience i know that users tend to value their email more than it deservers value. i did that myself too | 20:22 |
| lardman | derf: I have the same problem with my Windows desktop, lots of stuff on it, I have recursive desktop/old_desktop/old_desktop/old_desktop/old_desktop etc :) | 20:22 |
| derf | I fairly regularly need to dig up messages from 2 or 3 years ago. | 20:22 |
| macoute | but after i lost about 2000 mails (and crying for 2 hours) i realized, that there was really nothing THAT important | 20:22 |
| macoute | and that was my work mail | 20:22 |
| macoute | derf: of course you do, but if you really have some information in your email that is not available anywhere else, you are kinda living on the edge | 20:23 |
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| derf | That is what automatic backups are for. | 20:24 |
| macoute | but well | 20:24 |
| macoute | derf: dont worry, im not going to delete your mails. just tried to make you think if they really are so important | 20:24 |
| macoute | but well, people collect stamps too | 20:24 |
| derf | I wouldn't be crying if they all vanished. | 20:25 |
| derf | But disk space is cheap. | 20:25 |
| macoute | thats true | 20:25 |
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| derf | And I'd rather have them than not. | 20:25 |
| macoute | but filesystems (and like) suck | 20:25 |
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| lardman | Shall we discuss smoking next? ;) | 20:26 |
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| macoute | lardman: im going now, so cant join :) | 20:26 |
| macoute | (to a cigarette) :) | 20:26 |
| lardman | :) | 20:26 |
| macoute | but of course, you all could try and convince me not go :D | 20:27 |
| KamikaziFreak | Anyone here know if there's a way to get info out of osso-media-server? I'm trying to hack together something to play songs with it, but I can't figure out how to tell when the song ends. | 20:27 |
| lardman | lucky suggestion on my part | 20:27 |
| derf | Nah, go right ahead. But of the two "bad" habits, I'd rather collect old e-mails than smoke. | 20:27 |
| macoute | maybe :9 | 20:28 |
| macoute | and this is for me http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/463c5922 | 20:28 |
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| KamikaziFreak | I've been hurting for a decent way to play music ever since I got my 770, about 3 months ago. | 20:32 |
| lcuk | KamikaziFreak, just suck it up and order guitar lessons | 20:32 |
| lcuk | thats the only real way you will play music | 20:33 |
| KamikaziFreak | Hey, I'm working on the harmonica. It's smaller than the handheld. | 20:33 |
| lcuk | better battery life as well i bet | 20:33 |
| KamikaziFreak | Nah, it's shot. I've got to put it back in the harmoni-charger after about 25 minutes. | 20:34 |
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| KamikaziFreak | And since I haven't found an mp3 decoder compiled to run on a wind instrument yet, I've been trying to make do with the 770. | 20:35 |
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| KamikaziFreak | Currently I've got a perl script that reads a playlist, and passes each filename over to mplayer. That works ok, but for some reason mplayer loves to cut off the last 3-5 seconds of every track. | 20:38 |
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| lardman | interesting, is that as it used the dsp decoder hack? | 20:39 |
| lcuk | sounds a bit off | 20:39 |
| lardman | s/used/uses | 20:39 |
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| lcuk | what happens when you do it manually | 20:39 |
| lcuk | lardman : C:\Documents and Settings\Gary\My Documents\oldstuff\older\oldold\old\oldx\old | 20:39 |
| lardman | lcuk: lol, looks pretty similar | 20:39 |
| RST38h | \real-old-stuff\ | 20:39 |
| KamikaziFreak | So I'd like to change it over to use osso-media-server via dbus, but I don't know how to tell when the song is done (the current script waits until mplayer exits). | 20:39 |
| lardman | lcuk: I should go through the 20GB of data in there sometime | 20:40 |
| KamikaziFreak | I'm not sure why mplayer does that. | 20:40 |
| RST38h | btw, lcuk, ain't you doing all your stuff on the tablet? that did not look like a tablet path | 20:40 |
| KamikaziFreak | Why it cuts off the end, I mean. | 20:40 |
| lcuk | i wriote a program to display an explorer type window which showed folder total sizes - i cleaned up about 100GB in lost iso files - all thats left is small or required | 20:40 |
| lcuk | RST38h, i have a desktop still | 20:41 |
| lcuk | KamikaziFreak, if you play it manualluy what happens | 20:41 |
| KamikaziFreak | lcuk, what do you mean by "manually"? Just running mplayer straight from the command line? | 20:42 |
| lcuk | just running mplayer interactively | 20:42 |
| lcuk | does it still chop off the song | 20:42 |
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| lcuk | and does your perl script just push the massive list to mplayer in one gob, or does it wait for mplayer to ocmplete before continuing | 20:43 |
| KamikaziFreak | There isn't an interactively. I don't have a frontend installed, except "GMPlauncher", which I never use. I'm trying that now, though. | 20:44 |
| lardman | KamikaziFreak: from the command line | 20:44 |
| KamikaziFreak | The perl script sends one song at a time; the script suspends while it waits for the call to mplayer to end, then goes on and passes the next song in a new instance of the program. | 20:45 |
| RST38h | lcuk: heheh +) | 20:46 |
| lardman | add a sleep(1) in between calls? | 20:46 |
| KamikaziFreak | Hmm, actually I have two scripts that I use; one to play a playlist, and one to play my whole folder of songs on random...and that one just uses one command with a wildcard for the filenames. | 20:46 |
| KamikaziFreak | I use the random one a lot more. It may be the only one that has problems. | 20:46 |
| lcuk | or you dont miss the last few seconds of an album as much | 20:47 |
| lcuk | just add a sleep of required time to give the system a chance to flush buffers? | 20:47 |
| lcuk | heh lard | 20:47 |
| * lcuk hasnt been reading much recently | 20:48 | |
| KamikaziFreak | No, not sleep. the "system" command in Perl sends a command to the shell, and waits for that process to end. | 20:48 |
| lardman | too dark due to the snow and sleet up North? ;) | 20:48 |
| RST38h | any system that requires you to "use a random time sleep" is broken | 20:48 |
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| RST38h | (ok, except ethernet) | 20:48 |
| lcuk | and microsoft access cross process calls | 20:48 |
| lcuk | (but i wouldnt know anything about that) | 20:48 |
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| lcuk | oh look, a leaf | 20:48 |
| lardman | or anything that writes to the Windows registry | 20:49 |
| lcuk | i think we just backed up RST38h's hypothosis | 20:49 |
| KamikaziFreak | Ok, I think it's just when I pass all the files in a big glob to mplayer that it chops off the ends. | 20:49 |
| RST38h | yep. | 20:49 |
| lcuk | KamikaziFreak, change your bulk transfer into lots of individual ones | 20:50 |
| lardman | KamikaziFreak: are you using the dsp decoder hack? | 20:50 |
| KamikaziFreak | What's that hack? I don't know, I've just got some mplayer package. | 20:51 |
| lardman | can you pastebin the mplayer output when you play something on the command line? | 20:51 |
| KamikaziFreak | Do what now? What's pastebin? | 20:51 |
| lardman | I'm just wondering if mplayer forgets that the dsp uses a reasonably large buffer, and resets the dsp before the buffer has been used up | 20:52 |
| lardman | resets the task, not the dsp that should be | 20:52 |
| lardman | ~pastebin | 20:52 |
| infobot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste | 20:52 |
| suihkulokki | SSLL | 20:53 |
| moontiger | derf ... then maybe you wont find a mail client that works for you | 20:53 |
| moontiger | just saying is all | 20:53 |
| lcuk | my nit got hot today and turned off before end of day | 20:53 |
| lcuk | hiya moon | 20:53 |
| moontiger | hey lcuk :) | 20:53 |
| lardman | lol, I was thinking hairy palms for a minute there | 20:54 |
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| lcuk | i would type a response but i cant see the keyboard | 20:54 |
| derf | moontiger: As I said, webmail is functional. Far from optimal, but at least I can read my mail with it. | 20:54 |
| moontiger | man im tired today | 20:54 |
| derf | Which is more than I can say for the built-in client. | 20:54 |
| lcuk | LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG day - | 20:54 |
| KamikaziFreak | As far as passing mplayer all the filenames individually...that's gonna get really tedious for playing back everything on shuffle...I can dump everything into an array and pull random filenames out of it I guess. | 20:55 |
| moontiger | derf, if i get time to try to write a mail client making it work well with 20k emails in an imap folder *wont* be my top priority | 20:55 |
| lardman | KamikaziFreak: see the top option here: http://mplayer.garage.maemo.org/maemo-options.html | 20:55 |
| moontiger | <--- teaching an tired :| | 20:55 |
| derf | moontiger: That's okay. Using your client won't be my top priority. | 20:55 |
| moontiger | hehe :) | 20:55 |
| moontiger | derf, the point is i think the tablet isnt really suited to that kind of load | 20:56 |
| derf | That's in more than one imap folder, by the way. | 20:56 |
| moontiger | oh well if its organized then it should be possible to make it functional | 20:56 |
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| derf | Half the imap clients seem to forget that part, too. | 20:56 |
| KamikaziFreak | lardman: So, you mean use -ac dspmp3 ? | 20:56 |
| lcuk | i read that as 20k per folder | 20:56 |
| moontiger | well imap servers are to blame too | 20:57 |
| derf | lcuk: Right. 20k or so each. | 20:57 |
| lardman|afk | KamikaziFreak: no, I was wondering if you were using it (should say when you start mplayer playing); if so that might explain why you lose the end of songs | 20:57 |
| lardman|afk | KamikaziFreak: not a solution, just trying to work out what's happeneing | 20:57 |
| lcuk | you should stop using email | 20:57 |
| lardman|afk | bbiab | 20:57 |
| lcuk | cya lardman | 20:57 |
| moontiger | i have like 500 emails max on my nit | 20:58 |
| lcuk | email clients should display no more than 100 mails in any one folder | 20:58 |
| lcuk | and then prevent adding more | 20:58 |
| moontiger | or at least use a virtual list of some sort | 20:58 |
| derf | If they did that, I would stop using e-mail. | 20:58 |
| moontiger | to page thru a large data set | 20:58 |
| derf | Because that's just dumb. | 20:58 |
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| KamikaziFreak | Yeah, e-mail clients should do whatever the heck you'd like them to do, because it's the computer and your the user. | 20:59 |
| derf | moontiger: That's what webmail does. It's very cumbersome, but at least it works. | 20:59 |
| lcuk | i can barely talk, ive got 4000 unread mails in main folder | 20:59 |
| moontiger | maybe like games programming where you only allow say 500 emails to be downloaded at a time then cache out if newer ones come in | 20:59 |
| moontiger | like have the ids and titles in the list but the contents are limited to a reasonable number | 20:59 |
| RST38h | lcuk: rm -rf | 20:59 |
| lcuk | thats only bandwidth limitations moony | 21:00 |
| moontiger | that way u wont be trying to store 20k emails on the nit | 21:00 |
| moontiger | not really ... storage is an issue too | 21:00 |
| derf | It's imap. It's designed not to store things on the client. | 21:00 |
| moontiger | and working memory on the nit | 21:00 |
| RST38h | nit should self-destruct once it reaches 99% builting storage use | 21:00 |
| lcuk | rstC:\Documents and Settings\Gary>rm -Rf | 21:00 |
| lcuk | 'rm' is not recognized as an internal or external command, | 21:00 |
| lcuk | operable program or batch file. | 21:00 |
| moontiger | right derf but a lot of ppl do download the messages | 21:00 |
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| RST38h | this will show those suckers how to litter it with emails! | 21:00 |
| moontiger | hahaha | 21:01 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Install Cygnus tools. | 21:01 |
| derf | It's only about 1.4 GB of mail. | 21:01 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: This way you will be able to finish off your email any time | 21:01 |
| moontiger | but 20k msgs even in a db with minimal storage per record would be a large amount of memory | 21:02 |
| lcuk | ive given up, most were notifications that replies arrived, i would just open browser without fishing through mails | 21:02 |
| KamikaziFreak | I've heard a lot of people bash the built-in e-mail client, but it's always worked great for me. | 21:02 |
| lcuk | not really moontiger | 21:02 |
| derf | KamikaziFreak: It couldn't even open my inbox. | 21:02 |
| derf | It churned at it until it ran out of memory and rebooted the tablet. | 21:02 |
| moontiger | i was thinking to use a sqlite db for backing storage and build a front end that was finger friendly | 21:03 |
| derf | So, less than optimal user experience. | 21:03 |
| KamikaziFreak | I suppose that would suck. | 21:03 |
| RST38h | builtin email client used to suck donkey ass | 21:03 |
| RST38h | it is a bit better now | 21:03 |
| moontiger | i mean really ... talking to a pop / imap server isnt that hard | 21:03 |
| lcuk | moontiger, be our guest | 21:03 |
| lcuk | im sure the current client started in exactly the same way | 21:04 |
| KamikaziFreak | Yeah, telnet is the way to go for e-mail. I'd do that, if it worked right with gmail. | 21:04 |
| moontiger | when ive moved to madrid next month i will start a simple cmd line version to test out the protocol stuff | 21:04 |
| KamikaziFreak | Screw clients. | 21:04 |
| lcuk | lots of companies do | 21:05 |
| moontiger | hahaha | 21:05 |
| moontiger | i was thinking a search interface is the only way to go | 21:05 |
| moontiger | \no list view as such | 21:05 |
| moontiger | apart from "todays emails" | 21:05 |
| lcuk | well thats your bugbear | 21:05 |
| moontiger | just a progressive search interface | 21:05 |
| RST38h | moontiger: it is not hard unless you start getting all fancy and multithreaded on it | 21:06 |
| moontiger | which of course u need to | 21:06 |
| lcuk | i *think* liqbase should be able to handle 20k items | 21:06 |
| moontiger | but really thats not that hard either | 21:06 |
| lcuk | quite easily | 21:06 |
| RST38h | moontiger: not necessarily ;) | 21:06 |
| moontiger | i used to write games in asm with multiple threads and processors so an email client cant be so hard | 21:07 |
| KamikaziFreak | Use Perl! | 21:07 |
| RST38h | remember that the standard Unix installation is never getting multithreaded on emails | 21:07 |
| derf | Any proper UI supports a list view with an arbitrary number of items. | 21:07 |
| KamikaziFreak | It's all text! | 21:07 |
| lcuk | no KamikaziFreak lets let him code up email in asm | 21:07 |
| lcuk | it will be worth it for the lol\ | 21:07 |
| lcuk | it will be worth it for the lolz | 21:07 |
| RST38h | in fact, standard Unix didnt have thread APIs for years | 21:08 |
| moontiger | im not gojng to code it in asm | 21:08 |
| lcuk | awww | 21:09 |
| moontiger | i was just saying ... mutli-threading isnt that hard as a concept | 21:09 |
| moontiger | duh! | 21:09 |
| moontiger | derf, the screen is small enough that a list containing 20k items would be a pain to scroll thru no? | 21:10 |
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| lcuk | why painful? unless its standard gtk tiny nobble hitting lists | 21:10 |
| RST38h | moontiger: one word: deadlock | 21:11 |
| lcuk | ive just adapted liqase to create 25 sketches per sketch - ive got over 1000 now, lets see.. | 21:11 |
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| derf | I've seen very, very few developers that could write multithreaded code correctly. | 21:11 |
| RST38h | gtk will choke on 20k list (see Maemo file manager) | 21:11 |
| derf | Is that because it's doing lots of crap to figure out the appropriate icon for each file, or because it's actually making a GtkWidget for each item? | 21:12 |
| RST38h | prolly the latter | 21:13 |
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| lcuk | derf, i multithreaded the loading for sketches in liqbase and it was poorer than my inline variation | 21:13 |
| derf | In that case, that's just dumb. | 21:13 |
| RST38h | there are several issues there though | 21:13 |
| RST38h | one is its propensity to scan every single subdirectory of the current one | 21:13 |
| lcuk | i think im gonna run out of memory soon | 21:13 |
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| RST38h | second is its strange habit of memmapping 130+MB memory | 21:14 |
| derf | Hah. | 21:14 |
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| RST38h | third is the gtk slowness on many entries | 21:14 |
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| derf | I tend not to use the file manager at all, so this is not really an issue to me. | 21:14 |
| RST38h | Still waiting for a decent file manager on maemo: MC comes close but gets broken by Maemo's xterm | 21:15 |
| RST38h | derf: Well every now and then I do have to manage scores of files | 21:15 |
| nemo | RST38h: XFCE4's? | 21:16 |
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| moontiger | RST38h, huh? | 21:16 |
| RST38h | nemo: Not yet ported | 21:17 |
| lcuk | what happens when app fills memory? | 21:17 |
| RST38h | nemo: You will be the first :) | 21:17 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: gets killed afaik | 21:17 |
| RST38h | moontiger: what? | 21:17 |
| lcuk | 1481 root RW 118M 1478 81.3 95.8 liqbase | 21:17 |
| moontiger | RST38h, deadlock | 21:17 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: is it actual or just requested? | 21:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: see with htop | 21:17 |
| lcuk | actualy, ive just set it the task of loading 25k sketches | 21:18 |
| KamikaziFreak | RST38h: I felt like my 770 was crippled until I found a package for MC. What doesn't work about it? It seems to work fine for me. | 21:18 |
| lcuk | not found | 21:18 |
| RST38h | btw those 81.3/95.8 numbers are unhealthy too | 21:18 |
| lcuk | scrolling is still fluid | 21:18 |
| lcuk | its loading | 21:18 |
| RST38h | Kamikaze: No mouse support and constantly showing on-screen keyboard makes it jump | 21:18 |
| nemo | RST38h: really. that's odd. | 21:19 |
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| nemo | RST38h: you'd think XFCE4 would be a natural for low mem env | 21:19 |
| RST38h | moontiger: Programming multithreaded apps requires intricate knowledge of two things: deadlocks and race conditions | 21:19 |
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| nemo | esp being all gtk to avoid loading 2 sets of libs | 21:19 |
| moontiger | RST38h, i know | 21:19 |
| RST38h | moontiger: while threads themselves are easy, avoiding deadlocks in a complex multithreaded program which often waits on network resources is a bitch | 21:20 |
| moontiger | RST38h, ummmmmmm yes | 21:20 |
| moontiger | thats why they invented thread pools | 21:20 |
| KamikaziFreak | RST38h: Do you use the xterm that gives you a sidebar? I have "Enter" on the right side, and set commands based on file extensions or whatever. No keyboard popping up needed. | 21:20 |
| RST38h | moontiger: If you do not use threads and just stick to the normal producer/consumer model with processes (fork() etc), you will be much safer | 21:20 |
| moontiger | ahhhhhhhhh right | 21:20 |
| moontiger | terminology | 21:20 |
| RST38h | Kamikaze: oh, no, I am using the standard one =( | 21:21 |
| moontiger | thnx yes | 21:21 |
| moontiger | so its true that threading isnt a stable under linux as processes? | 21:21 |
| KamikaziFreak | PgUP/PgDOWN/Enter. Those are the most useful things ever to add to it. | 21:21 |
| moontiger | windows uses threads very well | 21:21 |
| RST38h | moontiger: linux kernel threads *are* stripped down processes | 21:21 |
| RST38h | moontiger: but they are stable | 21:21 |
| KamikaziFreak | RST38h: Get it. xterm-advance, or whatever it's called. | 21:22 |
| RST38h | moontiger: it is what you DO with threads that may cause problems, Linux or Windows, does not matter | 21:22 |
| moontiger | so why not use them then if they are lighter weight processes and stable? | 21:22 |
| RST38h | Kamikaze: Tried it - the sidebar thing is broken, not showing labels right | 21:22 |
| RST38h | moontiger: you do not get data insulation | 21:22 |
| RST38h | and your file handles are shared between threads | 21:22 |
| moontiger | RST38h, i appreciate the advice but i have been programming for a little while now and i do know some of the things u are telling me :) | 21:22 |
| RST38h | sockets too | 21:23 |
| RST38h | moontiger: Good. Now imagine a random Indian learning about threads and using them in the project you are managing | 21:23 |
| RST38h | moontiger: Scary, yes? 8) | 21:23 |
| lcuk | liqbase hit a wall: 1481 root RW 196M 1478 11.7158.1 liqbase its starting to get slower | 21:23 |
| moontiger | RST38h, nationality aside yes i understand :) | 21:23 |
| RST38h | mootiger: And THAT is why I always suggest 1) using full processes and 2) use straightforward producer consumer model | 21:24 |
| derf | I just stopped doing things that required threading. | 21:25 |
| derf | It's made me a lot happier. | 21:25 |
| RST38h | mootiger: This does nt let your Indians trash stuff and cause deadlocks | 21:25 |
| RST38h | derf: There is exactly 1 (one) thing that requires threading in Linux | 21:25 |
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| macoute | RST38h: and how well does your programs scale to several processors? | 21:25 |
| moontiger | RST38h, but if its just me and i know what im doing i can use threads and get a performance boost | 21:25 |
| RST38h | derf: It is called select() :) | 21:25 |
| derf | Or poll(). | 21:26 |
| RST38h | derf: Yep | 21:26 |
| RST38h | macoute: Same or better than multithreaded ones as they do not need to share address space | 21:26 |
| RST38h | moontiger: And if your app deadlocks, you blame it on the kernel! =) | 21:26 |
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| derf | Nah, you can still deadlock independent processes pretty easily. | 21:27 |
| * lcuk is pleased liqbase can handle that much data | 21:27 | |
| derf | Depending on your communication mechanism. | 21:27 |
| RST38h | derf: Yes, but lack of easy communication mechanism constrains your inner Indian making him think twice :0 | 21:30 |
| derf | You obviously haven't seen mediocre programmers try to use sockets. | 21:31 |
| derf | I assure you, there's no thinking involved. | 21:31 |
| RST38h | I worked as a TA for a while | 21:32 |
| RST38h | So, I have seen mediocre programmers do al kinds of things =) | 21:32 |
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| moontiger | RST38h, not that it makes me a good programmer by default but i have been coding for 24yrs now | 21:38 |
| moontiger | so i have done a few things in my time :) | 21:38 |
| RST38h | moontiger: But not everyone is like you | 21:39 |
| RST38h | That is the problem. | 21:39 |
| moontiger | i know | 21:39 |
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| moontiger | and im damn sure i dont know everything | 21:39 |
| moontiger | so advice and help is always appreciated and taken in | 21:39 |
| * RST38h is always following the KISS principle | 21:40 | |
| moontiger | right | 21:40 |
| moontiger | me too | 21:40 |
| RST38h | or, as Russians put it, "90% of manufacturing operations can be done with a hammer and a file" | 21:41 |
| macoute | Keep Innovating Supercool Systems | 21:41 |
| RST38h | macout: Keep It Simple Stupid | 21:41 |
| macoute | RST38h: i know :) | 21:41 |
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| XTL | RST38h: That tends to take time and muscle, though | 21:45 |
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| * XTL is a big fan of small sharp tools ideas | 21:46 | |
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| Bilaw | Hello all! | 22:07 |
| RST38h | ehlo. | 22:08 |
| Bilaw | I know I am a tiny wee bit off topic, but I can't find help from mojo... Here goes: would anyone like to tell me how to install mojo on my N810 (my PC runs Ubuntu)?? | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | Bilaw: a lot of pain and tears | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:10 |
| Bilaw | to this extent, Stskeeps? | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | you'd probably want to look at deblet instead | 22:10 |
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| Stskeeps | since it's more user oriented | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | that saying, it's not impossible to make mojo run. | 22:11 |
| Bilaw | I think it was you (or was it johnx?) who suggested deblet, only an internet search did not return anything... | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | server was down so | 22:11 |
| Bilaw | As you can gather, I am not exactly a computer geek. But I know what a shell is, so I figured I could manage... | 22:12 |
| Bilaw | (I'll go look up this site, thank you!) | 22:12 |
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| Stskeeps | well, anything but maemo on tablets is bit black magic :) | 22:13 |
| Bilaw | Wow. But I don't like maemo very much... | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | UI or system? | 22:13 |
| RST38h | Oh, yes, Yes, YESSSS: http://gizmodo.com/5069412/igameboy-theme-if-the-iphone-were-around-two-decades-ago | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | fame or? :P | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 22:14 |
| Bilaw | Er... in my case, I mean both... | 22:14 |
| Bilaw | ""There is -no- warranty. This may blow up your MMC, steal your wife or cause doomsday to come around"" | 22:14 |
| Bilaw | --- I like that! | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | fine, give me your wife | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | ;> | 22:15 |
| RST38h | the wife part or the doomsday part? | 22:15 |
| Bilaw | I love it all: chaos may ensue. That's me! | 22:15 |
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| Bilaw | (I am the type of guy who can hardly resist shoving his suits in the washing machine, juste for the sake of it, you see...) | 22:16 |
| Bilaw | (so imagine w/ computers!) | 22:16 |
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| * Stskeeps is playing some more with mojo/hasty in jffs. http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/ubuntumin.txt | 22:16 | |
| Stskeeps | i'm really amazed what you can squeeze into 69m flash | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | (this is without any sort of space savers beyond a minimal ubuntu base) | 22:18 |
| RST38h | gzipped binaries I reckon? | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | jffs2 compressed, yeah | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | 150m uncompressed | 22:19 |
| melmoth | Just wondering...If i had a webcam, could i use it within scratchbox ? | 22:20 |
| melmoth | to "emulate" the n810 cam ? | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | maybe, if /dev is pulled over to sb | 22:20 |
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| Bilaw | ... I can now see why you favour Deblet over mojo, Stskeeps!! | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | i don't favour either over the other :P | 22:43 |
| RST38h | Ok, who wanted EMUlib source code? Pupnik? | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | even though i work on deblet | 22:43 |
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| Bilaw | Damn it! By the look of it, I need a wifi connection running while installing. I don't. So I can't try it right away... | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | aye.. you can disable the check though, if you get net in other ways | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | (look in /usr/libexec/deblet/deblet_installer.py | 22:48 |
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| Bilaw | (hang on, is this a directory I shall see when I have installed the whole thing?) | 22:50 |
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| Stskeeps | when you've installed the installer | 22:53 |
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| zap | N800 and N810 both use same audio code - TLV320AIC33? | 22:53 |
| zap | *codec | 22:53 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, that reminds me, i never gave you the source for that start-internet program, i'll dig it out for you tomorrow | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | k | 22:55 |
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| zap | Is there a better schematics for N8xx than the one I have? Mine is very blurry and starts at page 10-4 | 22:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | zap, n810 ones are in good quality | 22:59 |
| zap | where do I get them? :) | 22:59 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | hehe... give me a min if someone cannot answer you faster :p | 23:00 |
| RST38h | zap: You wanted frame buffer source code? | 23:00 |
| * Stskeeps wonders what he can use his 69m jffs image for, if anything | 23:00 | |
| zap | qwerty12_N800: I'll be very grateful | 23:00 |
| zap | RST38h: no, for now I'm just interested emulators to be faster :) | 23:01 |
| zap | do you use pixel doubling and other tricks? | 23:01 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | zap, sure. lemme get the links :) | 23:01 |
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| Bilaw | Stskeeps: I am going to leave my attempt at installing deblet for the time being. There are things I -- not surprisingly -- do not understand. I'll try and catch you earlier on thur or friday, if you're willing to help! | 23:12 |
| lcuk | bilaw, welcome to the club, ive been in a state of not understandedness for the last 9 months | 23:13 |
| Bilaw | hopefully lcuk youre not as dense as I am when it comes to computers (and they call me "geek" at the office! What a joke!)! | 23:13 |
| lcuk | heh | 23:14 |
| Bilaw | (simply because I KNOW how to use macros on Word(R)!) | 23:15 |
| Bilaw | -- have you been trying to install deblet too then, lcuk? | 23:15 |
| lcuk | no, before this year i knew nothing about linux itself (barring ooohing and ahhhing at livecds and the like) | 23:16 |
| lcuk | i still know sweet FA about it | 23:16 |
| * lcuk waves his hands about | 23:16 | |
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| * lcuk couldnt fight his way out of a root console with FULL man support | 23:17 | |
| melmoth | dont worry, you r tasted it. chance are you re already an addict and dont even realise it :) | 23:17 |
| lcuk | though those words surprisingly have meaning now | 23:17 |
| * Bilaw sympathises terribly w/ lcuk | 23:17 | |
| lcuk | melmoth :) when i understand it THEN ill rebuild it | 23:18 |
| Bilaw | If were talking linux, I s'ppose I am already an addict. But I tried Debian and could not make myself understood by it. So I went back to nice Ubuntu... | 23:18 |
| Bilaw | -- now if were talking maemo/N8x0, that's another story... | 23:19 |
| * qwerty12_N800 needs to recompile uptimed and remake that quick script to upload my records to me webspace :/ | 23:19 | |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N800, dont you mean so you hack it not to show the times you reboot :P | 23:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, I'm actually saintly honest in that regard :p | 23:20 |
| lcuk | bilaw, i dunno - i could probably figure out whats goin on inside another debian system now | 23:20 |
| Bilaw | I'm off, gentlemen (and gentlewomen?). It was good to talk. I'll see you around. | 23:20 |
| lcuk | bilaw, always good to talk :) have fun | 23:21 |
| Bilaw | And you! | 23:21 |
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| * lcuk needs front facing camera. | 23:22 | |
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| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, for the liqbase camera rotation stuff? | 23:24 |
| lcuk | for liqbase, the camera rotation bug is secondary | 23:24 |
| qwerty12_N800 | k | 23:24 |
| lcuk | i need to see something and how something will work before i can advance something | 23:24 |
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| lcuk | and its a bit fecked up rotating 810 round doin what i want and flippin it back | 23:24 |
| * lcuk has a solution though :) | 23:25 | |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N800, did you see the actual berlin presentation i did? | 23:28 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, no, i haven't seen it yet :( | 23:28 |
| lcuk | its at the top of maemo.org now http://maemo.org/ | 23:29 |
| lcuk | gets out most of what i am doing with lb :) | 23:29 |
| lcuk | and the bug i found | 23:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ok, *fingers crossed* that flash will play it good :) | 23:29 |
| lcuk | oh yeah you are on 800 | 23:30 |
| lcuk | get on a big machine | 23:30 |
| aquatix | lcuk: the conference presentation? | 23:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | i can't :. | 23:30 |
| aquatix | that one was nice :) | 23:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :/ | 23:30 |
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| lcuk | yes | 23:30 |
| * lcuk kicks his apple bt keyboard for presisng space the whole way through presenetation | 23:31 | |
| aquatix | ah :) | 23:31 |
| aquatix | was that why you had issues starting it? | 23:31 |
| lcuk | yes :) | 23:31 |
| aquatix | s/it/liqbase | 23:31 |
| aquatix | heh :) | 23:31 |
| lcuk | stars was meant to show until a key is pressed | 23:31 |
| aquatix | aight | 23:31 |
| lcuk | it flummoxed me | 23:31 |
| aquatix | i noticed :) | 23:32 |
| aquatix | thankfully it's rule number one of conference presentations | 23:32 |
| aquatix | so noone blames you | 23:32 |
| * aquatix is gone again | 23:33 | |
| aquatix | ttyl :) | 23:33 |
| * qwerty12_N800 sees if there is python app or something to grab vimeo videos :) | 23:33 | |
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| lcuk | qwerty12_N800, you can grab the native original feed i believe | 23:37 |
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| qwerty12_N80O | stupid tablet... | 23:40 |
| qwerty12_N80O | lcuk, yeah, i downloaded the flv, mplayer rc2 should play it fine :) | 23:40 |
| lcuk | not stupid tablet, we could really do with an intermediate binary to intercept all flash and block everything properly until clicked. but this same binary middleman can also watch for specific flash players and forward media directly to mplayer ;) | 23:41 |
| RST38h | *or* we could have properly implemented flash player | 23:42 |
| lcuk | i would still prefer a middleman | 23:42 |
| RST38h | that does not flood the system with gettimeofday() calls | 23:42 |
| lcuk | i want clicktoplay for all flash media | 23:43 |
| lcuk | on a device like this it should be the default | 23:43 |
| qwerty12_N80O | RST38h, still not acknowledged? | 23:43 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Well, it appears to be the bug that hangs browserd | 23:44 |
| qwerty12_N80O | :/ | 23:44 |
| RST38h | qwerty: You probably remember that I was directly told by timeless to shut up about reconsidering browserd usefulness | 23:44 |
| RST38h | The guy threatened to ban me from bugzilla basically | 23:45 |
| qwerty12_N80O | yeah, i remember :\ | 23:45 |
| RST38h | As to flash player, nobody seems to be responsible for it, but if you want to look further into this bug, it is here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3703 | 23:46 |
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| qwerty12_N80O | lcuk, mplayer options -framedrop -lavdopts skiploopfilter=all and i'm getting something watchable finally :p | 23:50 |
| lcuk | heh qwerty12_N80O | 23:51 |
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