IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-10-16

Stskeepswhich means maemo and nokia aren't seperable :P00:00
melmothmhh, i think we can store quite a lot on the server, i was afraid of the limit on the tablet :) I think on the server this should be changeable by the server owner.00:00
moontigerright00:00
melmothand data about to be removed should be send to the user by mail00:00
moontiger10 or 20 can be a default but any limit within reason is ok00:00
melmothnothing is ketp on the device. It is stored, untill a connexion is up, then it is send00:00
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moontigerok i see00:00
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melmothbut if there are 4 hours of gps, 2 days in a row, without connexion, i wonder what will happen00:01
moontigermaybe only keep 10 or 20 data points for each00:01
moontigeruntil u can upload00:01
melmothwhen the device states that the aplication must save its data , it is saved in /tmp/positions.txt00:01
moontigerright00:01
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moontigerof course ... shutdown notifications etc00:01
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GeneralAntillesWell, then should our focus be on pushing people away from Nokia-specific dependencies and towards more compatible practices?00:02
moontigermelmoth, also maybe look at the timestamp of the last update and limit to only so many per hour or whatever?00:03
Stskeepsthat was my thought, but that may also hinder platform development cos there's not many alternatives to stuff like libconic, gps libs, etc.. not sure how open they are00:03
melmothyep, i think that s what i ll do.00:03
melmothi first have to see how fast does it fill.00:03
moontigerStskeeps, surely once we know the chip used in the gps we can get a driver for it?00:03
moontigerright00:03
Stskeepsmoontiger: oh, problem isn't the driver, it's the libs people use to access with00:03
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: maybe simply making a statistics on how dependant the apps are on properitary pieces00:04
moontigeri thought it was gpsd?00:04
GeneralAntillesgpsd is pretty damn open. ;)00:04
moontigerright00:04
Stskeepsalright, my bad00:04
moontiger:)00:04
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I think the osv-c effort would help expose some of these failure points.00:05
Stskeeps*nod*00:05
Stskeepsbut taking a apt dependancy tree and mark "tainted" packages00:05
Stskeepscould be interesting00:05
GeneralAntillesYeah00:05
Stskeeps"your app depends 15% closed source packages"00:06
moontigeru know ive been in the hal channel for the last few days and nobody talks00:06
moontiger\its like they have all achieved a state of zen esp or something00:07
mgedmin'cause dave pulled out all the memory modules00:07
moontigerand communicate without words00:07
Stskeepsascended, eh?00:07
melmoththey r waiting for a callback.00:07
moontigerhahaha00:07
moontigeri didnt register an event handler00:07
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Stskeepstry writing to them in HAL API00:09
moontigerhahaha00:10
moontigeruse dbus-send00:10
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qwerty12_N800listen to secret messages with dbus-monitor00:11
melmothtime to sleep over here. good night maemo !00:12
moontigernight melmoth00:12
moontiger:)00:12
moontigeri tried dbus-send --dest=channel00:14
moontigerand it worked :)00:14
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Stskeepshehe00:15
moontigerbrb00:18
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* Stskeeps heads off to sleep too, exam in "specification of it systems" tommorow :(00:19
RST38h~curse MIPS again just because it is never enough00:19
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, MIPS again just because it is never enough !00:19
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mikkov_autobuilder queue manager is flawed00:53
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rouejoin #RHEL00:53
roueoops00:53
roue:)00:53
mikkov_it takes every five minutes ONE package for building00:54
mgedminare the autobuilder scripts public?00:54
mgedmini.e. can we submit patches?00:54
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, of course.00:54
GeneralAntilleshttp://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/00:54
GeneralAntillesBugzilla is a good route for patches.00:54
mikkov_there are 3 builders, but when one package takes 1 minute to build, builders are idling and queue get longer..00:55
GeneralAntillesOr just harass X-Fade.00:55
mgedminwhat was the name of that package that checked for packages used for building a deb?00:55
mikkov_dpkg-checkbuilddeps00:56
mikkov_but it doesn't work for me though00:56
RST38hif he gets harassed any more, he may commit harakiri00:56
mgedminI got it to work once, somehow00:56
qwerty12_N80Omikkov_, do you have devscripts installed?00:56
RST38hsleep.00:57
mikkov_for me it doesn't work because strace segfaults on my machine00:57
mikkov_qwerty12_N80O: yep00:57
qwerty12_N80Oah, for me, i was missing devscripts00:57
mgedminno, that's not the one I meant00:57
mikkov_something else?00:57
mgedmindpkg-depcheck, that's what00:57
mgedmindpkg-depcheck -m dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b00:57
mgedminwill install a LD_PRELOAD hook and track all the files opened during the build process, then prints out the package names00:58
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mgedminhelps you construct the build-depends line in debian/control00:58
mgedmina bit faster than playing ping-pong with the autobuilder00:58
mikkov_actually I meant to say dpkg-genbuilddeps...00:58
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mgedmincool00:59
mgedminit's a wrapper around dpkg-depcheck00:59
mikkov_yeah, just remembered00:59
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mikkov_I get "resume: ptrace(PTRACE_SYSCALL, ...): No such process" with it01:00
mikkov_and some more crap and then it hangs01:01
GeneralAntillesI wish we had a way to change background programmatically.01:02
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mikkov_change background image path at /home/user/.osso/hildon-desktop/home-background.conf and restart hildon-desktop ;)01:09
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GeneralAntillesmikkov_, need something better.01:10
GeneralAntillesI want to have it cycle the image every 24 hours.01:11
GeneralAntillesCleanly01:11
qwerty12_N80OAn external program would be needed, it doesn't have an dbus interface. The nice thing is that code for hildon background manager is in hildon-desktop01:12
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qwerty12_N80Ok, i lied, it does use dbus, can't see how it sets an image though01:16
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GeneralAntilleshttp://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303001:20
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derfWith an X pixmap ID, of course.01:32
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yacoobuhhh. New parser. 'With an X pimpmap ID, of course'.01:39
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derfBut yeah, it looks like you'd have to have a daemon running to intercept that DBUS call, log the pixmap ID, and then draw directly to the pixmap and force a window repaint somehow, and then hope hildon desktop doesn't invoke one of its 18 ways to reload what _it_ thinks the background image is.01:46
derfBecause there appears to be no way to change that value externally short of restarting hildon-desktop.01:46
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smackpotato.02:04
LiraNuna;02:09
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smackpotatohow come minigpsd seems to work better than gpds,02:14
smackpotatogpsd02:14
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Pavlovanyone heard anything about beagle boards with more memory?03:23
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Pavlovcoming out? ever?03:23
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GeneralAntillesPavlov, the Beagle guys are interested in shipping a 256MB RAM PoP with no NAND.03:34
GeneralAntillesThey haven't actually shipped one yet, though.03:34
GeneralAntillesIf it's likely to happen, it seems likely that it'll be sometime in the next 3-4 months.03:35
GeneralAntilles#beagle is really the better place for Beagle Board-related questions, though. ;)03:35
* Pavlov tries that out03:35
Pavlov;)03:35
Pavlovoh i'm there too03:36
GeneralAntillesThough they tend to be active mostly during business hours.03:36
Pavlovk cool03:36
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PauliusHey guys, small question. I have a 770 and bluetooth compatible cellphone. I want to do so that I could send SMS messages through my 770 (that is, compose on there and have my phone send it). I've searched forums and saw a few ways of doing it.03:42
PauliusWhat's the most recommended and possible simplest/foolproof way to achieve this?03:42
mgedminyour question assumes there is one03:43
* mgedmin tried PhoneLink, but had no luck with it03:43
PauliusYeah PhoneLink was one of the first choices there.03:44
PauliusI just wanted to get your opinions because it doesn't seem like they're actively distributing it for OS2006.03:44
PauliusCertain phones aren't compatible with the SMS sending. But I've just tried it out with my Mac and this software and it worked.03:44
PauliusMeaning that now I just need to find software on the 770-end of the equation.03:44
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PauliusSpeaking of which...03:50
PauliusDo you think that OS2008 is viable on the 770?03:50
mgedminthere's a hacker's edition03:50
mgedminpersonally I wouldn't risk it03:50
Pauliusyes I know.03:50
PauliusI used to run it but it was terribly slow.03:50
GeneralAntillesWorks fine for me.03:50
mgedminbut then I'm rather conservative when it comes to software03:50
PauliusNow I'm reading some forum threads and people say that it works "fine"03:50
PauliusGeneralAntilles: What about the speed?03:50
Pauliusmgedmin: I can't stand the stability in OS2006 and I want access to newer software.03:51
GeneralAntillesEh, I cut my teeth on OS2005. ;)03:51
GeneralAntillesWith MMC booting, a 48MHz kernel and swap it wasn't too bad.03:51
PauliusWould you recommend upgrading the OS?03:51
PauliusWhat's your performance like.03:51
GeneralAntillesAdmittedly, I don't use my OS2008HE 770 as a primary device.03:52
PauliusDo you have any tutorial links for the 48MHz kernel?03:52
GeneralAntillesThere's a thread on itT by bunanson03:52
GeneralAntillesShould be easy to find.03:52
PauliusSo should I assume that it's still terribly slow?03:52
GeneralAntillesEh03:52
GeneralAntillesIt really depends on your threshold for slow.03:52
GeneralAntillesI find it to be acceptable03:52
GeneralAntillesothers may not03:52
PauliusIs it similar to browsing on OS2006, though?03:53
PauliusOS2006 loads a page in about 5 seconds.03:53
GeneralAntillesOS2007HE is a reasonable compromise between OS2008HE and OS2006.03:53
PauliusWhen I tried out 2008 and even 2007 some time ago (unoptimized, though) it took me about 15 seconds to load a page.03:53
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PauliusI don't understand the MMC thing.03:56
PauliusSo the flash card is supposedly faster than the built-in flash?03:56
GeneralAntillesAt the very least, it isn't running a compressed filesystem.03:57
Pauliusoh, and it normally is?03:57
GeneralAntillesjffs2 is compressed.03:57
PauliusBut I'm presuming that the default 64MB card isn't enough then.03:57
GeneralAntillesNo03:57
PauliusHow much do I need/want?03:57
GeneralAntilles1GB is about right03:58
GeneralAntillesor 2GB if you can find one cheap enough03:58
Pauliuswow that much?03:58
Pauliusand most importantly... where do I find MMC memory...03:58
GeneralAntillesThe internet03:58
Pauliusyeah but shipping costs = teh fail03:58
GeneralAntillesEh03:59
GeneralAntillesBuy yourself a couple new harddrives off newegg while you're getting the card or something03:59
PauliusI'm in Canada.03:59
PauliusWe don't have good retailers such as newegg.03:59
GeneralAntillesnewegg ships to Canad. ;)03:59
PauliusYes but pricing is terrible.03:59
GeneralAntilless/Canad/Canada/03:59
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: newegg ships to Canada. ;)03:59
PauliusWay more expensive than retailers here.03:59
Pauliusbecause they charge for customs and stuff03:59
GeneralAntillesIf the card is too expensive, you might just as well try to find yourself a used N800.04:00
GeneralAntillesThe N800 is lightyears ahead of the 770.04:00
Pavlovsd cards are like $30 for 8gb04:01
PauliusPavlov: Not SD. MMC.04:01
Pavlovoh04:01
PauliusI got tons of SD cards in my house.04:01
Pavlovyeah04:01
Paulius1GB DV RS MMC MEMORY04:02
PauliusThe heck does DV and RS stand for.04:02
GeneralAntillesReduced Size04:02
PauliusIs that what I want?04:02
GeneralAntillesProbably dual voltage04:02
GeneralAntillesYes04:02
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mgedmina n8x0 is worth it04:05
Proteousyes04:06
ProteousI mean no04:06
Proteouswait04:06
mgedminheh04:06
Proteousworth it for what?04:06
Proteousmine was worth it04:06
Proteousbut yours might not be04:06
GeneralAntillesWorth it over the 770.04:06
* mgedmin tired and not comprehensible04:06
mgedmincpu and ram size alone are worth the switch04:07
PauliusYeah but I got better places for my money to go at the moment.04:07
PauliusAnd the 770 works for what it does.04:08
PauliusMinus the small annoyances.04:08
Proteousone word "KEYBOARD"04:08
Proteous!!!04:08
povbotProteous: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.04:08
Proteous!!ERROR04:08
povbotProteous: Error: "!ERROR" is not a valid command.04:08
Proteous!ERROR not a valid command04:08
povbotProteous: Error: "ERROR" is not a valid command.04:08
Proteous!ERROR"04:09
povbotProteous: Error: "ERROR"" is not a valid command.04:09
PauliusI was thinking of getting an iPod touch... but the app store is terrible.04:09
Proteous!/"04:09
povbotProteous: Error: "/"" is not a valid command.04:09
PauliusNo useful free apps, and don't feel like paying for an app that a teen did when he was bored.04:09
Proteousjust say no to bored teen apps04:09
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, any chance you could switch povbot's trigger?04:09
PauliusJust saying, I prefer OSS.04:09
mgedminpovbot, do you want me to switch your trigger?04:10
povbotmgedmin: Error: "do" is not a valid command.04:10
PauliusMy plan is to wait for the N810 prices to go down.04:10
PauliusIt's about 370$ right now.04:10
mgedmin$360 in amazon; someone said he saw it for $340 somewhere else04:10
ProteousI got mine open box from amazon for $32504:10
GeneralAntillesWhy wait for N810?04:10
Paulius370 at Tigerdirect.ca04:10
Proteousbesides missing the USB cable it was perfect04:10
GeneralAntillesN800 is cheap now.04:10
Proteousno KEYBOARD!!!!04:10
PauliusGeneralAntilles: yeah but N810 has some nice features04:10
ProteousKEYBOARDDDDDDDD04:10
Pauliuslike the keyboard, outside screen, GPS, etc.04:11
mgedminGPS sucks04:11
PauliusAnd I hate how the N800 looks.04:11
mgedminkeyboard rules04:11
GeneralAntillesN800 actually has storage04:11
mgedminn810 is pretty, that's true04:11
Pauliusmgedmin: Better than no GPS.04:11
whodatare there any articles on disassembling an n81004:11
mgedminPaulius: agreed04:11
mgedminyou don't have to use it04:11
mgedmin(but you have to pay for it)04:11
mgedminwhodat: I assume a large hammer would suffice04:11
PauliusThere are times when I wish I had a GPS.04:11
PauliusEven if it's crappy.04:11
GeneralAntillesThat's what Bluetooth GPS units are for.04:11
whodatmgedmin: word04:12
mgedminthe GPS is so bad I'm manually tracking my position in the maemo mapper04:12
PauliusGeneralAntilles: Well that's an extra cost.04:12
mgedminfrom the airport/bus station/whatever04:12
GeneralAntillesWay, way better than the N810's built-in chip.04:12
GeneralAntillesPaulius, yeah, so's an N810. :\04:12
PauliusI'm not an american, I don't buy shit just because it's cheap or that I might need in the future.04:12
GeneralAntilles:rolleyes:04:12
mgedminI'm not an american04:12
mgedminI buy shit because it's awesome and I have spare cash04:12
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whodatlol, very nice n810 docking station: http://bu3sch.de/n810.php04:16
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whodatand didn't know the n810 had a serial port04:18
mgedmin!!!04:18
povbotmgedmin: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.04:18
mgedmindarn04:18
* mgedmin hates supybot sometimes04:19
GeneralAntilleswhodat, they all do.04:20
Proteous!"'`/`04:20
povbotProteous: Error: No closing quotation04:20
Proteous!/"04:21
povbotProteous: Error: "/"" is not a valid command.04:21
Proteous!"/"04:21
povbotProteous: Error: "/" is not a valid command.04:21
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mgedmin! so there04:23
Proteousheh04:24
Proteous!!04:24
Proteouspovbot !!!!04:24
povbotProteous: Error: "!!!!" is not a valid command.04:24
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cyrus___This may be a more complicated answer then what I am expecting but if someone has a chance, can they look at http://pastebin.com/m2c130674. My question is, this code compiles just fine on my Gentoo system but not within scratchbox. It is complaining about _gtk_image_set_from_file_scaled which is defined in the file misc.c (not on some external library). So why would it compile just fine on Gentoo but not maemo06:24
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whodatgetting 'proxy authentication error' when trying to use the internet call, any ideas on this?06:30
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Proteousprobably some sort of proxy auth error07:50
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RST38hYouTube has rejected John McCain's request for special treatment when his campaign videos are hit with DMCA takedown notices08:50
RST38hhehe08:50
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doc|homehow long before he introduces some sort of tax on being involved or using google?09:05
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RST38hlong enough - I hope he loses the elections09:06
RST38halthough the guy does have long memory.09:07
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Khertan_n810Hi !09:14
Khertan_n810maybe someone can help me09:14
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Khertan_n810i ve a problem with mmc1 on my n810 swithching constantly in read only09:15
Khertan_n810and i don t why09:15
Khertan_n810nor i see why09:15
qwerty12Check if the card is corrupted09:15
Khertan_n810to understand if a log is  made somewhere09:16
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johnxthere's a kernel log available with dmesg09:16
Khertan_n810the problem seems related after a heavy metalayer crawler scan09:16
johnxprobably a corrupted card with errors being triggered by lots of I/O09:16
Khertan_n810i don t see anything in dmesg log09:17
Khertan_n810anything suspect about io09:17
johnxnothing about remounting?09:17
johnxYou should still try fsck'ing it09:17
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Khertan_n810remounting by unloading card09:18
Khertan_n810and reinsert it09:18
johnxbut dmesg doesn't say "remounting" anywhere?09:19
Khertan_n810give me right to write for 5 minutes09:20
Khertan_n810no fsck on n81009:20
Khertan_n810ping ?09:20
johnxpong09:20
bef0rdpong09:20
johnxheh, broadcast ping?09:21
bef0rddo you have a computer near? plug it in, and fsck it from there09:21
johnx^what he said^09:21
johnxor find e2fsprogs from somewhere09:21
qwerty12~curse C++09:21
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, C++ !09:21
bef0rd~curse infobot09:22
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, infobot !09:22
qwerty12~curse bef0rd for cursing infobot!09:22
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, bef0rd for cursing infobot! !09:22
bef0rd:p limited cursing09:22
qwerty12yeah :P. I prefer lart09:23
Khertan_n810sorry the network connection is lagging09:25
Khertan_n810(phone data connection in train)09:25
johnxKhertan_n810, e2fsprogs is in extras09:26
johnxerr...but your card is FAT I bet09:26
johnxlet's see09:26
johnxyou want dosfstools in that case09:26
Khertan_n810yet FFat09:27
Khertan_n810Fucking FAT09:27
qwerty12Nokia in their infinite wisdom already included dosfstools with the tablet :)09:28
qwerty12fsck.vfat etc is already present on the tablets09:28
qwerty12oh shit, remove legal warning patch v2 actually works09:29
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Khertan_n810dosfstools is already here09:30
Khertan_n810but i don t found commands09:30
qwerty12become root09:30
Khertan_n810There are differences between boot sector and its backup.09:31
Khertan_n810qwerty12: yep :)09:31
Khertan_n810i see that by myself09:31
* Khertan_n810 is a noob09:31
Khertan_n810Reclaimed 163 unused clusters (667648 bytes).09:32
Khertan_n810ouch09:32
Khertan_n810i will make a backup before09:32
johnxyes, corrupted was the right guess :)09:32
* qwerty12 had to run fsck recently too :). Untarring dd-wrt sources on mmc2 with N800 wasn't good idea09:32
Khertan_n810yep but this is strange that dmesg doesn t show anything  about mounting it in read only09:33
Khertan_n810i still don t understand also why everything and everybody and so many products use vfat fs for sdcard as it corrupt itself frequently09:36
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qwerty12it's all about windows :)09:37
Khertan_n810window can read other fs09:37
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Khertan_n810is it easier to implement ?09:38
qwerty12Not by default and I don't think support want to spend many hours in the end explaining how to get ext2 support for example on windows09:38
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Khertan_n810not by default ?09:39
Khertan_n810hum maybe it s the network administartor which enable it at work09:39
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Khertan_n810sorry i m not a windows expert09:39
Khertan_n810use it only at work09:40
Khertan_n810:)09:41
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Khertan_n810is there any  reason to not use ext3 on maemo for the sd card ?09:42
benhKhertan_n810: other than not mounting it on a !linux machine ?09:42
Khertan_n810i mean for advanced user not using windows09:42
benh:-)09:42
Khertan_n810benh: not a problem ffor me09:43
benhI guessed09:43
qwerty12You usually use ext3 for sd card boots. For some odd reason, if the first partition on the memory card is ext3, it gets classified as corrupt as the app manager :/09:43
qwerty12s/app manager/file manager/09:43
infobotqwerty12 meant: You usually use ext3 for sd card boots. For some odd reason, if the first partition on the memory card is ext3, it gets classified as corrupt as the file manager :/09:43
Khertan_n810what i mean is with maemo can it made any problem09:43
Khertan_n810so file manager doesn t read it09:44
Khertan_n810any other app have problem with it ?09:44
Khertan_n810pictures viewer for examples ?09:45
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mrpmrp:09:47
qwerty12Khertan_n810: probably. it does use hildon file selector.09:48
qwerty12You could make another ext2/3 partition, leaving the 1st one as FAT and store important data on there09:48
Khertan_n810yep but i use important data many times a day with hildon file selector09:50
Khertan_n810so if hildon file selector don t see the card it ll be a problem09:51
Khertan_n810is there a bug in bugzilla09:51
Khertan_n810?09:51
Khertan_n810anyway thx for help09:52
mrpanybody managed to get deblet port to 770 work?09:52
Khertan_n810i ll keep vfat09:52
Khertan_n810but i ll backup it and reformat it :)09:53
Khertan_n810thx09:53
bef0rdI don't like hildon file selector :/09:54
Khertan_n810yep me too09:54
Khertan_n810but gtk one on maemo is difficult to use09:55
Khertan_n810bye09:55
bef0rdtrue that.09:55
Khertan_n810i m arriving at office09:55
bef0rdbye Khertan_n810.09:55
Khertan_n810have a good day09:55
Khertan_n810and again thx for help09:55
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baabaerf, where do i get theoradec for gstreamer again?10:05
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X-FadeMorning.10:10
baabai was pretty sure it came with some dep for ogg-support but apparently not :(10:10
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kulveit did in the past10:18
kulveI dropped all extra from the latest release because I had troubles to get even that working10:18
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JaffaMorning, all10:30
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solmumahamorning10:31
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mrp10:45
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RST38hmoo, Jaffa10:48
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mikkov_solmumaha: duke cd version and shareware levels are now in extras-devel13:17
solmumahagreat, i'll test them today13:20
solmumahai wonder if shadowwarrior is good enough for extras13:21
mikkov_I haven't tested cd version at all13:21
solmumahayou own duke3d?13:22
mikkov_no13:22
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lcukapt-get uninstall tooth14:14
lardmanapt-cache search dentist14:14
lardmanapt-cache search pliers14:14
MangoFusionshutdown -h now14:19
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* Jaffa also undentists. Still got all my teeth, but concern over "small ulcers" on gums in my otherwise good mouth.14:24
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lardmanJaffa: not enough alcohol to kill any bacteria in the mouth ;)14:25
lcuk[ESCAPE] [ESCAPE] [CTRL+f4] [poserkey]14:25
lcukpowerkey^14:25
Jaffalardman: I like that idea :)14:25
johnxah, the poserkey?14:25
* Jaffa is migrained up at the moment, so probably won't help14:26
lcuk:(14:26
* johnx presses the poserkey, is suddenly dressed like a boyband member14:26
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* aquatix lets some of his female friends scream hyterically at johnx 14:29
* johnx presses the button again, disables PoserLock14:30
aquatixah, not interested in groupies?14:30
johnxjust leads to awkwardness, and VD O_o14:30
aquatix:)14:34
lcukjohnx, tsk tsk groupies are fine as long as you install a firewall andrun a virus scan occasionally14:35
aquatixindeed14:35
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aquatixmight grow boring after a while, but it sure is fun for a while ;)14:35
johnxeven the best firewalls will get 0wned by a sufficiently skeery virus14:35
lcukonly boring if you stick to the same groupie14:36
macoute_johnx: ... though I havent seen a real-life example of that happening to iptables :P14:36
lcuklike fine wines, you should take a sip from lots of glasses14:36
johnxlcuk, aren't you supposed to spit afterwards?14:36
lcukno, but she can14:37
lcuk:O14:37
aquatix*g*14:37
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* johnx pictures lcuk's female partner spitting on him :P14:38
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macoute_johnx: have you, btw?14:38
lcukhey - i marked that album as private!14:38
aquatixlcuk: indeed you did14:38
lcuki actually dont understand that mentality you know: having an online photo album but setting it as private.  if you dont want people seeing your pictures, dont upload them in the first place14:39
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macoute_lcuk: :) thats kinda true14:39
macoute_and you shouldnt upload yor private pictures to a place with such an EULA as those places usually have14:40
johnxeh, I just set pics of other people as private in my flickr album14:40
johnxI don't see it as 100% security so much as avoiding being the low hanging fruit14:41
lcukjohnx, but havent most of these photo sharing websites had hacking incidents where their albums become public14:41
johnxmacoute_, no btw, due more to luck in my younger days than anything else14:41
aquatixlcuk: why not? maybe such software has login functionality, so you can share pics with family/friends and such?14:41
aquatixlcuk: fair enough14:41
lcukheh aquatix, its not just a silly thing14:42
johnxlcuk, sure, but and if that happens I'll shrug. I don't expect 100% privacy, just reasonable measures14:42
johnx<- pragmatist14:42
RST38hehlo, lcuk, johnx, aquatix14:42
lcukthere was a huge archive of myspace photos recently wasnt there14:42
aquatixhey RST38h14:43
lcukjohnx, i think you use it not for privacy, but for common courtesy - its people that upload actually private images of people in compromising situations14:43
lcukhiya RST38h14:43
johnxRST38h, ohai14:43
aquatixif i want to share private pics, i show them on one of my devices, or burn a dvd-r14:43
johnxlcuk, essentially yes14:43
aquatixor cdrom14:43
johnx"privacy" is a big grey area14:44
aquatixlcuk: yeah, they could better sell those pics to those `amateur nude' sites14:44
lcuki just encode pics as base64 and push to random irc channels14:44
aquatixoh, so that's that random line noise you're spewing14:45
aquatix:)14:45
lcukheh yeah14:45
lcukthats why my word count is so high14:45
aquatixthought it was english14:45
aquatixghehe14:46
johnxaquatix, I think english is largely indistinguishable from line noise for the most part...14:46
lcukyeah, well i use ascenography :)14:46
aquatixjohnx: so true14:46
lcukso whats happenin scene wise then, anything new and exciting to look at?14:48
* lcuk quite likes the idea of this video streaming thingy14:49
* RST38h wonders whether he should debug the remote play feature to liven things up14:49
lcukremote play - of the movie thing, or your games?14:50
RST38hgames14:50
lcukwicked, by remote play do you mean ip to ip14:51
RST38hyes14:51
RST38hit is already implemented too14:51
RST38hjust needs debugging14:51
lcukyeah, but dont firewalls and general NAT type problems get in the way14:52
RST38hthey do: at least one side has to have a valid open ip address14:52
johnxlcuk, that's what she said14:52
lcukheh14:53
RST38hOIL $68.50 hehe14:54
johnxisn't that down a bit from a while ago?14:54
RST38hYea, like 50% down14:55
johnxheh14:55
* RST38h expects cheap airline tickets now14:55
johnxah the wonders of supply and demand14:55
johnxgah. I already bought mine :/14:55
RST38hDelta owes me a free ticket from Europe to US and back14:56
johnxjust googled for a handy oil prices chart and got linked to an article from 2000 about oil prices soaring to $3014:56
Sts|officejohnx: my beagleboard finally works \o/14:56
Sts|office(now to put deblet on it..)14:56
johnxSts|office, w00t!14:56
johnxI'm looking at gpe/matchbox14:56
Sts|officeturns out it was a cable problem14:57
johnxit flies on my n800 since it frees up so much RAM14:57
johnxah the best kind of problem14:57
Sts|officeseems like my old mobo connector was miswired, so14:57
ShadowJK_miswired how?14:58
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Sts|officeShadowJK_: up/down switched or something14:59
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RST38hjohnx: ah, that was the time...15:01
johnxRST38h, I drove so. damn. much. in the summer of 200015:02
johnxSts|office, up/down switched? did you have it upside down? :P15:03
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Andy80hi all15:04
johnxhi Andy8015:05
RST38hjohnx: so, it was YOU who caused the spike in demand for the oil? =)15:05
Sts|officejohnx: well the electronics workshop here rewired my connector, it seems15:05
Sts|officenot sure what they did15:06
Andy80since os upgrade is totally broken (flash plugin, maemo documentation ecc...), I've to re-flash the device. The latest available firmware is this: RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, isn't there any newer firmware?15:06
Sts|officeRX-44?15:06
Andy80do I have to install that and then use the OTA upgrade?15:06
Sts|officeoh, right, nm15:06
ShadowJK_does beagleboard have reverse polarity protection?15:06
johnxRST38h, nah. I was driving an 82 honda accord(ian). I was getting 30 miles/gallon :P15:06
Andy80Sts|office: I've N81015:06
Sts|officeAndy80: windows updater may have more recent one15:06
* RST38h weeps remembering '82 Accord15:07
RST38h[never drove it though]15:07
Sts|officeShadowJK_: no clue, it i didn't break it15:07
johnxRST38h, fond rememberance? or utter hate?15:07
Andy80Sts|office: if I don't want or I cannot use windows, can I install 2008.23 and then use the OTA upgrade?15:07
ShadowJK_beagleboard looks cute, I want one, but I don't know what I'd use it for :)15:07
johnxAndy80, yes. normally the upgrade process works fine.15:07
ShadowJK_are there any gl drivers for linux for beagle...15:08
RST38hjohnx: rather fond rememberance: it was produced *before* all those idiots decided that all 90s cars should look like Ford Taurus15:08
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RST38hSo, '82 Accord still looked like a car, not like a mobile sofa15:08
NeoWatchmorning guys... my n800 seems it has a hardware issue... it keeps scrolling down by it self so i guess i have to send it to the waranty right?15:09
RST38hSounds like the directional pad is broken15:09
johnxShadowJK_, I believe so, opengl es215:09
gomiamNeoWatch: ? that has happened sometimes. Have you tried clicking all the arrows repeatedly ;-)15:10
johnxRST38h, yeah, I loved that thing. it never died either...15:10
NeoWatchRST38h talking to me bud?15:10
NeoWatchwhich arrows gomiam ?15:10
Andy80johnx: can you load this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware ? it's empty for me :(15:10
RST38hjohnx: neither Hondas nor Toyotas die. They wear out like slippers.15:10
solmumahaAndy80: refresh it15:10
RST38hAlthough you can probably kill a Honda if its timing belt breaks...15:11
johnxempty here too15:11
johnxRST38h, ek1 wasn't interference, IIRC15:11
aquatixRST38h: slippers wear out pretty fast here ;)15:11
Andy80solmumaha: I'm trying but it doesn't load, it's a blank page15:11
gomiamNeoWatch: well, the buttons that you use to move around.15:11
RST38hjohnx: they added this (mis)feature later?15:11
solmumahaAndy80: worked for me15:12
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NeoWatchgomiam hold on let me try15:18
gomiamNeoWatch: ok15:18
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NeoWatchwhat pisses me off is that i just bought it 2 month a go and i got to the point that i depend on it so much that i feel like a drug addict now without it15:21
NeoWatchhmmm weird... i turned it on and looks fine now15:21
NeoWatch!!!!15:21
gomiamXD15:23
gomiamMurphy's law corollary: some random person who is just passing by will find the solution to the problem after everybody else has spent hours thinking about it ;-)15:24
NeoWatchi think the repositories are very limitted and the device too... hopefully someday it will develop more features15:24
gomiamare the repositories limited? How so, NeoWatch?15:24
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Sts|officeNeoWatch: maybe your screen protector is applied in the wrong way15:25
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Sts|officei had similar issue15:25
Sts|officejohnx: btw i found methods we may use to determine how bad deblet is at keeping battery, - ondemand cpufreq keeps statistics over how long time it spends in each cpu freq, and also using iostat and such15:30
Sts|officei have some stats waiting to be analyzed15:30
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Sts|officeand vmstat, since it counts idle cycles15:32
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lopzhola15:52
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sampohello15:52
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sampois it possible somehow to change font size inside gtk combobox ? if is, how ?15:53
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inzsampo, static void _smaller_text(gpointer cell, gpointer user_data) { g_object_set(cell, "scale", (gdouble)0.75, "scale-set", TRUE, NULL); } ... GList *cells = gtk_cell_layout_get_cells(GTK_CELL_LAYOUT(combo)); g_list_foreach(cells, _smaller_text, NULL); g_list_free(cells);16:07
inzsampo, or something similar might work16:07
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JaffaBTW, anyone who was sponsored for the summit: have you been reimbursed yet?16:33
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X-Fadehttp://vimeo.com/198146816:36
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GeneralAntilleslardman, ping.17:47
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whodatgetting 'proxy authentication error' when trying to use the internet call, any ideas?17:49
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Jaffawhodat: Silly question - are you behind an authenticated proxy?17:57
whodatyeah, but i entered the proxy user/pass17:58
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JaffaAnd browser works?17:59
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JaffaCould be a bug in the Internet Call app not handling proxy auth properly17:59
Robot101I didn't even realise that was an error18:00
Robot101whodat: when does it happen specifically?18:00
Robot101whodat: are you using SIP or GTalk?18:00
whodatSIP18:01
whodatyeah i think its a bug, doesnt like this proxy server or something18:01
whodati use the same user/pass on another SIP client, it works18:01
whodatrobot: i saw the error after you told me how to turn logging on a few days ago18:03
StskeepsJaffa: the irony is that the flash thing is so horridly horridly easy I don't understand why noone has done it yet.18:04
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StskeepsJaffa: (it works under deblet, enough said?)18:05
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JaffaStskeeps: :)18:05
qwerty12Hrm, anyone want to fix a dodgy patch?18:06
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GeneralAntillesI wish we could have just one more line in the application menu.18:13
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qwerty12Here's what I've got so far. http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/nokia_suck_dick_with_their_legal_bullshit.png . I can save and load the value successfully, but my problem comes in with the way I'm integrating that value when it comes to the actual install part. But I can't program anyway so if I cant figure it out, I don't give a shit :)18:19
GeneralAntillesHa. . . .18:19
GeneralAntillesWhat about Red Pill and the settings dialog?18:19
JaffaIsn't that the Red Pill settings dialogue?18:20
qwerty12That is the red pill settings dialog. I figure it would go in nokia's favour if a person has to do a "hack" to disable it18:20
GeneralAntillesThe settings dialog doesn't appear under Blue Pill anymore in Diablo.18:20
JaffaIf so, using Red Pill mode to hide the setting is going to encourage *more* Red Pill use, when we're trying to minimise it ;-)18:20
qwerty12Shouldn't be hard to bring it back, I figure even me (who isn't a programmer) can bring it back :)18:21
GeneralAntillesThe Red Pill check needs to be moved from the dialog to the individual settings.18:21
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GeneralAntillesMore nonsense from tz. . . .18:30
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Sts|officeGeneralAntilles: you basically put in a uimage + linux kernel on fat partition and did standard linux boot when you did deblet on beagle i assume?18:32
GeneralAntillesYes18:32
GeneralAntillesI was using TI's reference kernel18:33
GeneralAntillessince it's the only one that works reliably with OTG at the moment.18:33
GeneralAntillesJust yanked Ã…ngstrom's bootargs and changed the partition.18:33
GeneralAntillesWorked fine.18:33
GeneralAntillesYou'll also need to put the appropriate MLO on the card.18:34
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Stskeeps*nod*18:35
* Stskeeps glances over at the beagleboard18:35
Stskeeps-finally- got a serial conn18:35
Stskeepsturns out those yanking from mobo about connector doesn't always work :P18:35
GeneralAntillesWell, you can just move pins around on the DB9 port.18:36
Stskeepsyeah, the electronics shop at uni patched it up (had someone else do the initial work stuff to get cables and such :P)18:37
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Stskeepsi saw earlier that atom boards are cheaper than beagles.. that was kinda frightening18:40
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Stskeeps(with cpu18:40
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Stskeepsok. play with two very cheap ipaq 3630 i got, beagleboard, or 770 port problems.18:44
Stskeeps.. or deblet18:44
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NeoWatchguys where can i get more repositories for my n800 ?18:48
Stskeepsextras and maybe extras-devel (and tools) are all you should optimally need18:49
GeneralAntilles~extras18:49
infobotit has been said that extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras18:49
qwerty12Having more repositories will not make your n800 more pimped. The question you should be asking is where can I find a package if it's not in extras or extras-devel18:49
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, economies of scale and all that. ;)18:49
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GeneralAntillesAtom is essentially a really shitty x86, while OMAP3 is a top-of-the-line ARM. ;)18:50
Stskeepstrue18:51
GeneralAntillesBesides, an Atom doesn't have any awesome factor.18:52
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Stskeepswe might switch on work to that (sadly) as we hoped to be able to do wifi ap using usb or the likes.. powered usb didn't matter, but current support in linux is .. shite, SDIO was also an option18:53
Stskeepsthere's libertas but can't find any actual sdio with it on18:53
GeneralAntillesInteresting18:54
Stskeepswe're basically trying to create a low cost infrastructure for pervasive computing in the home, for healthcare purpose18:55
Stskeepss18:55
GeneralAntillesWhy not just an off-the-shelf router?18:55
GeneralAntillesGotta be cheaper than rolling your own.18:55
NeoWatchqwerty12 i see... the thing is i find the N800 like too simple... like when u have a some food and its missing salt and pepper... the food is in there but its missing that nice extra taste18:55
GeneralAntillesThus:18:56
GeneralAntilles~extras18:56
infobotextras is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras18:56
NeoWatchi am about to throw this damn itouch trought the windows... it connect online everywhere except home18:56
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah, but we're hoping to include stuff like s-video for training videos and such too..18:56
GeneralAntillesor http://downloads.maemo.org if you want screenshots18:56
Stskeepsand that's better in same box18:56
Stskeepsand we did start out with off the shelf routers18:56
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johnxNeoWatch, for excitement look up extras and extras-devel and then start lurking on ITT in the apps section19:02
whodatRobot101?19:02
johnxStskeeps, rolling your own router-ish thing? it just needs wifi AP and s-video out, right?19:02
Robot101whodat: hm?19:03
Robot101whodat: can you save the whole tp-sofiasip log into a file and put it somewhere?19:03
Robot101whodat: mikhailz on #telepathy might be able to help you with it (he's the tp-sofiasip lead dev)19:03
tiagoOMDoes anyone know how to browse available services of a bluetooth connection on maemo? I want to do the same as 'sdptool browse $MAC' does on Ubuntu. Is there sdptool for Maemo? If yes, in which package?19:03
Robot101(oh he's offline atm)19:03
whodatrobot101: yaeh.. i have it on pastebin already but i forget what the url is lol... cant seem to find a way to search for it19:03
johnxStskeeps, I assume you've heard of the neuros OSD?19:03
whodatrobot: okay I will try to hit him up tonight after work.19:04
qwerty12tiagoOM: sdptest is in bluez-utils-test19:04
Stskeepsjohnx: wifi AP, s-video and .. maybe usb19:05
Stskeepsusb important19:05
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whodatthx robot19:05
johnxStskeeps, and have you found an acceptable wifi adapter that can be plugged into usb?19:05
Stskeepsjohnx: not that works with wifi ap mode :P19:06
johnxsad19:06
Stskeepsthe usb is for 3g really19:06
Stskeepswell it exists but the drivers are shady19:06
johnxcompletely by accident my wifi cf card has host ability19:06
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, find a way to get the company to pay for developing some real drivers? :P19:06
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: mm19:07
Stskeepsjohnx: looks interesting though19:07
johnxjust one more community to follow, and one more gadget to learn about :P19:08
Stskeepshey, i'm already in many boats :P19:08
whodatdoes anyone make a usb adapter for the n810 with the female end.. without having to use a long cable..19:08
Stskeepsjohnx: fully hackable box?19:09
johnxhttp://wiki.neurostechnology.com/index.php/Neuros_OSD19:09
johnxpretty hackable, yeah19:09
johnxI think there might be a closed driver or two?19:09
Stskeepsk19:10
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tiagoOMthanks qwerty1219:21
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smoehello!19:47
johnxhi19:47
smoei'm a new user of the N810 and i have problems installing openssh via deb-files19:47
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qwerty12It's in a repo :)19:47
GeneralAntillesJust grab it from Extras.19:47
GeneralAntilles~extras19:47
infobothmm... extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras19:47
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smoehere i have no wlan, so i downloaded the deb-files and copied them via usb on the nokia. when i doubleclick the file openssh-common... it says "application incompatible.." or so19:49
qwerty12dpkg -i them. you'll need root19:50
GeneralAntillesdpkg -i <path to .deb>19:50
GeneralAntilles~rootsh19:50
infobotrumour has it, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/19:50
smoerootsh ... ok i try19:50
qwerty12also, I think they depend on each other so install the debs at the same time with the one dpkg line19:50
smoeno, when i try openssh-client is explicitly says 'depends on openssh-common'19:50
qwerty12exactly. install openssh-common and openssh-client at the same time19:51
smoei cant without root privileges and i need internet for installing rootsh (?) and i need openssh for internet via usb :-/19:52
qwerty12lol... save this one to a memory card: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/r/rootsh/rootsh_1.4_armel.deb . Install via application manager19:52
smoeok, thanks :) i 'll try..19:53
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johnxare you sure you need openssh for usb networking?19:54
smoeso the howto says19:55
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johnxthis one? http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking19:55
qwerty12nay, no ssh mention there19:56
smoeoh, an new one...19:56
* GeneralAntilles nominates qwerty12 to clean up that article.19:56
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: I honestly would offer but I don't even use USB Networking as I can't get it to work. I'm a g_serial fan19:56
smoewhat the...19:57
GeneralAntillesThanks for the other cleanup, by the way. :)19:57
slonopotamusso. i've built svn with deps on my n800. in right world that would be enough. however. for various reasons packages fail to build on autobuilder. so i need to continue hacking. this is ugly. main package goal is to work on device, not to build in broken emulator.19:57
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: No problems, thanks :). I'll try and add appropriate things where needed, though I don't know much (read: any) wiki syntax and my grammar can be dodgy :/19:58
slonopotamusgood emulator - emulator that is indistinguishable from original device19:58
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, bookmark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet19:59
slonopotamusthis makes me sad19:59
GeneralAntillesI still think they should get some Beagles or overos for the autobuilder.20:00
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Ah! A quick look tells me this will be very useful indeed, thanks!20:00
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* GeneralAntilles still mixes up internal and external link syntax.20:00
johnxGeneralAntilles, heh...that's what debian does20:01
GeneralAntillesFor their builder?20:01
GeneralAntillesWhat Mojo does.20:01
johnxGeneralAntilles, yup, all debian autobuilders are real machines20:01
johnxGeneralAntilles, they have the m68k port built on millions of little m68ks20:02
slonopotamusone day i'll port gentoo on n8x0 and sdk hell will end.20:02
GeneralAntilleslol20:02
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johnxGeneralAntilles, it's halfway between funny and insane. The poor little m68ks have real issues keeping up with people uploading new source20:03
johnxslonopotamus, or you could just use debian ... and not have to worry about things constantly needing to be compiled20:03
slonopotamusi'm ok using gentoo on desktop and servers. maybe using it on tablet is not-so-bad idea? :)20:05
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johnxslonopotamus, sure, depends on how much time you have on your hands and whether you want to use your tablet or watch it compile things20:05
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ShadowJK_maybe it could compile in a background xterm20:07
ShadowJK_and suspend compiling if not on external power20:08
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johnxwhich doesn't solve one of my core requirements: instant gratification. :)20:08
slonopotamusi spend much time away from desktop, but with tablet. so destop sdk is a poor choice20:09
johnxthen debian on the tablet is a perfect choice :)20:09
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: http://nosocomia.com:8099/blog/index.html <- person who tried gentoo on tablet :P20:10
slonopotamusmaemo xchat sucks. no copy/paste20:11
GeneralAntillesCopy/paste works fine here. . . .20:11
slonopotamusoh20:11
slonopotamusit copies on selection20:11
slonopotamussorry then20:11
ShadowJK_can anyone else copy from the address line in microb? I can't, I can select it, but when I lift stylus, selection goes away :)20:12
ShadowJK_It used to pop up with the address selected :/20:12
johnxStskeeps, interesting. I didn't know anyone got that far20:13
slonopotamusselecting is enough. it's in clipboard.20:14
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ShadowJK_slonopotamus, not with microb20:14
Stskeepsjohnx: think he went slowly mad if you read it closer20:14
Stskeepsbut it's still interesting20:14
johnxStskeeps, yeah, it is. "There but for the grace of god..." and all that20:15
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qwerty12Gentoo drives you to the point of madness. That's why there is debian. :)20:15
slonopotamushey20:16
bematic1ehlo20:16
slonopotamusi'm not mad20:16
GeneralAntillesitt20:16
bematic1i'm currently trying to chat using irc protocol with my n81020:17
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bematic1i'm currently using rtcom beta20:17
GeneralAntillesXChat from Extras-devel is better.20:17
johnxqwerty12, I didn't hear of it until after debian, hence my current allegiances20:17
bematic1i'm connected to freenode20:17
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Stskeepsjohnx: then again, he would have a fully optimized dist :P20:17
sp3000clearly20:17
bematic1but i can't configure a contact to chat with20:17
bematic1do you know an issue for ?20:18
johnxStskeeps, gentoo is madness. check out angstrom before that20:18
slonopotamusStskeeps, that man is strange. why does he need scratchbox at all?20:18
johnxStskeeps, or poky20:18
Stskeepsjohnx: i have seen gentoo completely and utterly wreck a server, so, not again20:18
Stskeepsslonopotamus: cos building on your qemu emu is not fast20:18
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Stskeepsi really should try with a matching gcc distcc + qemu20:19
Stskeepsand see how sane it is20:19
qwerty12cross compiling the "normal" way drives me mad :)20:19
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Stskeepsqwerty12: capn_fish or someone came up with the idea of taking a qemu armel box, and DISTCC'ing to a codesourcery chain in PATH on a desktop machine20:20
Stskeepsacheiving faster compiling but true emulation too20:20
Stskeepsso no scratchbox insanities20:20
slonopotamusStskeeps, why qemu at all? crosscompile base system, boot and build everything on tablet directly20:20
qwerty12slonopotamus: compiling on tablet is slow. sometimes, watchdog jumps in tood20:21
johnxha! then you could renice qemu to make it behave :)20:21
qwerty12s/tood/too/20:21
infobotqwerty12 meant: slonopotamus: compiling on tablet is slow. sometimes, watchdog jumps in too20:21
Stskeepsslonopotamus: what qwerty12 said20:21
johnxqwerty12, with enough swap, you'll never see watchdog, but yes, terrifyingly slow20:21
Stskeepsi prefer a qemu cos it's like 50% faster than my tablet20:22
johnxslonopotamus, I think you vastly underestimate how slow we're talking about20:22
Stskeepsslonopotamus: though, if you distcc, you -could- do it on tablet20:22
Stskeepsadmittedly20:22
Stskeepsso it takes the hard cc jobs other place20:22
johnxconfigure, linking, installing would still take a long time20:22
slonopotamusman, i saw your qemu running 200x slower then my n800 on libdb build20:22
Stskeepsslonopotamus: but then there's the whole "sdk packages don't belong on tablet"20:22
GeneralAntilles"your"20:22
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GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, we're not maemo.org :)20:23
bematicyes it's working20:23
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: i'm not speaking of scratchbox qemu insanity20:23
Stskeepsi'm speaking fully emulated qemu20:23
Stskeepsnot running apps, but a whole os20:24
Stskeeps:P20:24
slonopotamusi _don't_ have much time at desktop. wife, children, etc. so slow is better than nothing.20:24
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slonopotamusand slow is better than broken emylation20:24
johnxslonopotamus, if you had a choice would you take fast over slow?20:24
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slonopotamusfast or compatible but slow ;)20:25
Stskeepswhile on the fly you could always unset your DISTCC variables20:25
slonopotamusi prefer compatibility20:25
bematic/list20:25
Stskeepsslonopotamus: i'm not sure what your argument is20:25
johnxslonopotamus, debian is faster and more compatible :)20:25
johnxespecially if you have to start with an armv4l distro20:26
johnx(in gentoo I mean)20:26
slonopotamusbuilding and running in one env is more stable than having two envs, one for building and one for running20:27
qwerty12lcuk: btw, if I could get screenshots of liqbase, would you be interested?20:27
slonopotamusi'm building fresh cross-system20:27
johnxslonopotamus, I'm booted into debian on my n800 *right now.* I totally agree with you20:27
Stskeepsslonopotamus: if you find a good way to optimize base debian system i'm all ears20:28
slonopotamusStskeeps, what optimizations you need? size?20:28
slonopotamusjohnx, deblet?20:29
Stskeepsslonopotamus: armv5/v6 optimization, not armv4t20:29
johnxslonopotamus, yup20:29
Stskeepsso see if it works better20:29
slonopotamusjohnx, can it build?20:29
johnxslonopotamus, oh yes20:29
johnxvery much so20:29
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johnxhaving done several days worth of compiles I am in a unique position to imagine how long it will take to bootstrap gentoo on one of these things20:30
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slonopotamusStskeeps, forget about armv4t. i'm going to do fresh crosscompile.20:31
Stskeepsk20:31
Stskeepsi'll be interested to see if it really have any benefits20:31
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slonopotamusmaybe  i'll fail. but i have a right and will to try ;)20:32
johnxslonopotamus, if you'd turn on VFP at the same time, that would be interesting too :)20:32
Stskeepsyeah20:32
Stskeeps(ignoring 770s for now..)20:32
johnxI think that's where the biggest speed-up is to be had20:32
johnxStskeeps, 770s are well served by debian eabi20:32
slonopotamusjonhx, what option enables it?20:32
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orangeyhey all!20:33
johnxhmm...20:33
johnxhi orangey20:33
orangeyI'm having significant trouble getting SIP to work on an n810. Any help pages on configuring various services?20:33
slonopotamusjonhx, i'm thinking of arm-none-linux-gnueabi target.20:33
orangeyfor example, neither callcentric nor wengo are working out for me.20:33
trickieslonopotamus: you gonna build a stage1 on the tablet?20:34
trickieslonopotamus: if you do, can i have one? :)20:34
slonopotamustrickie, first goal is to crosscompile bootable stage. if i do that, everything will be possible on tablet20:35
qwerty12_N800slonopotamus, -mfpu=vfp as a cflag20:35
trickieslonopotamus: have you got very far? a toolchain?20:35
johnxslonopotamus, this seems relevant: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2008/05/17/gcc-options-and-floating-point/20:35
trickiei tried with a toolchain i built with crossdev, and didn't get very far20:36
Stskeepsslonopotamus: feel free to steal any tricks from deblet to get stuff showing (.. credited obviously), all source is at http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/20:36
Stskeepsif you succeed in compiling :P20:37
slonopotamustrickie, i have almost complete 'system' (without perl). gonna try to boot on this weekend.20:37
Stskeepsslonopotamus: if it's gentoo you're going for.. debian optimized is still interesting though20:37
trickieslonopotamus: nice20:37
slonopotamusjohnx, thanks for link20:37
slonopotamustrickie, anyway, if i'll have any progress, will post on itt20:38
NeoWatchguys where i can get a good radio application for my n800?20:39
Stskeeps"fm radio"? :P20:40
Stskeeps(which is decent, imho)20:40
slonopotamus;)20:40
* qwerty12_N800 prefers mediabox. fmradio has more features but at least connecting a bluetooth headset still works20:40
NeoWatchis it only mine or the n800 use the headphones as antenna? cuz i cant get any reception20:41
trickieslonopotamus: ok, cool... good luck!20:41
GeneralAntillesHeadphones are antenna.20:41
NeoWatchohh ok20:41
NeoWatchi need to get me a small keyboard and a bluetooth headset for it20:41
slonopotamusqwerty, 'Looks like the default for -mfpu is vfp and the default for -mfloat-abi is soft.'20:41
slonopotamusqwerty, so defaults are ok?20:42
qwerty12_N800slonopotamus, yep. they seem to be used by everyone & maemo policy manual mentions them20:43
GeneralAntillesNeoWatch, the Apple keyboard is nice if you don't need folding.20:43
GeneralAntillesNeoWatch, and I like the Plantronics headsets.20:43
Stskeepsjohnx: btw 770 port is progressing nicely, seems like the steps are correct somewhat20:43
orangeyanybody have maemo running successfully with callcentric?20:44
slonopotamusqwerty, then i'm building with vfp enabled20:44
johnxStskeeps, sounds great! I bet gpe/matchbox would be nice and light for it20:45
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orangeywhat's RTCOMM?20:46
orangeyis that the stock SIP software with Maemo?20:46
slonopotamusbtw20:46
slonopotamusi think i'll be able to use restriicted packages20:47
GeneralAntillesorangey, the communication framework.20:47
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slonopotamusbecause gentoo doesn't bundle them into ebuilds, so they will be downloaded from nokia repo20:47
slonopotamus;)20:47
orangeyGeneralAntilles: I'm trying to figure out where to get some help with regards to my sip accounts.20:48
orangeywhat should I be searching for? rtcomm? sofia?20:48
GeneralAntillesorangey, did you try the rtcomm beta?20:49
GeneralAntillesIt adds a lot more account presets.20:49
orangeyOK, I'd like to do that. Let me look around to see how to install the beta. brb20:50
GeneralAntillesThe meta-package should be in Extras-devel.20:51
orangeywhat's red-pill mode, btw?20:51
NeoWatchhmm i installed the extra-devel and all my repositories dissapeared20:51
johnxorangey, it removes some restrictions on installing packages20:52
johnxorangey, so it sounds like "expert mode" but it can cause the app manager to choose the wrong packages if you leave it on while doing a system upgrade20:52
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orangeyok. so I hve to be judicious, it sounds like20:54
GeneralAntillesGuess not everything is in Extras-devel yet.20:54
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slonopotamusanyone wants svn & deps  almost-buildable-in-scratchbox source packages? :)20:56
orangeyso, does rtcomm support ICQ and so on, then?20:56
GeneralAntillesYes20:57
lcukqwerty12_N800, how?20:58
qwerty12_N800lcuk, n800 emulation20:58
orangeyGeneralAntilles: cool.20:58
orangeyGeneralAntilles: a last question, then. is this sufficient: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/20:58
orangeyor must I really do the beta?20:58
lcuki was talkin to hrw at the summit and the emulator was not a total emulation and did not support xv20:59
GeneralAntillesGrabbing haze from the Collabora repo should do you.20:59
qwerty12_N800lcuk, shit :(, my bad20:59
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I managed to get a bunch of repos removed from gronmayer btw. And more to come.20:59
lcukdont worry, ill just have to write the png export, its required anyway20:59
qole_so how do I take stuff out of  the repos? What's the opposite of dput?20:59
X-Fadeqole_: Ehm that is: "Mail the maintainer" :)21:00
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, keep on fighting the good fight. ;)21:00
X-Fadeqole_: Or tell me to do it ;)21:00
slonopotamusStskeeps, what did you mean by 'to get stuff showing'?21:01
lcukevenin qole_ X-Fade btw21:01
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I really need some help on the categories battle. Can the council help me please? :)21:01
lcukand gen+qwerty lol21:01
X-Fadehi lcuk.21:01
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qwerty12_N800lol, hi lcuk21:01
qole_Well, it's my package. I can upload stuff with dput, but what if I want to erase a package?21:01
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I'll rally the troops and make a blog post.21:02
GeneralAntillesSee if that gets anything rolling.21:02
slonopotamusqole_, then you lost :)21:02
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: >21:02
GeneralAntillesqole_, don't upload it in the first place. ;)21:02
X-Fadehttps://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories21:02
X-Fadeqole_: Removing packages must be seen as a last resort.21:03
Stskeepsslonopotamus: console, .. i can strongly recommend using my linuxrc bootmenu21:03
qole_GeneralAntlles: helpful as always21:03
Stskeepsslonopotamus: it makes things a lot easier :P21:03
X-Fadeqole_: And only to be done for broken packages or things that violate someting.21:03
GeneralAntillesqole_, well that's the truth.21:03
GeneralAntilles:shrug:21:03
slonopotamusStskeeps, what's the problem with console?21:04
Stskeepsslonopotamus: well on tablets console doesn't appear immediately but i think it's documented in that blog21:04
Stskeepslike, you have to load fbcon and such :P21:04
Stskeepsand set fb update modes21:04
Stskeepsthen there's some tricks with avoiding some initfs crap21:04
Stskeeps(i recommend looking at deblet-boot-basics)21:04
qole_X-Fade: so the repos just accumulate every version of every app ever uploaded?21:05
slonopotamusStskeeps, ok, will look21:05
slonopotamusStskeeps, thanks a lot21:05
X-Fadeqole_: Currently, yes. But normally there would be some automatic cleanup too.21:06
X-Fadeqole_: The idea is to have a few versions (2 or 3) in the repo and remove the older ones.21:06
lcukqole_, what did u upload?21:07
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qole_I broke extras-devel for a few hours last week with a broken package, it would have been nice to be able to delete my package21:08
lcukheh :D21:08
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lcukthat was when you told it to install the world wasnt it21:09
trickieStskeeps: or you can just build a kernel with the fb turned on and manual updates off21:09
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X-Fadeqole_: Well, it shouldn't have ended up in the repo.21:09
X-Fadeqole_: We plan to do more tests and checks.21:09
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qole_I found I could fix it by re-uploading a fixed pkg with the same version21:09
X-Fadeqole_: No, that breaks it too. But in a different way.21:09
GeneralAntillesAlways, always, always increment your version number.21:10
X-FadeThat can cause the 'Size mismatch' errors.21:10
qole_Long story, but I'm uploading my .deb to non-free because I have binary bits and some vala code from bundyo21:11
X-Fade3v1l non-free21:12
qole_I needed to fix my mistake; extras-devel was unusable; re-uploading fixed the repo21:12
X-Fadeqole_: Yeah, for non-free there are other scripts as you bypass the autobuilder.21:13
GeneralAntillesqole_, talk to X-Fade if you break things.21:13
X-FadeBut good that you started with extras-devel as that one is expected to break sometimes.21:14
qole_since then, I've been incrementing the version, and my package is a good citizen :)21:14
qole_of course I started with extras-devel; I'm ignorant enough that I was sure to break something!21:15
X-FadeThat is the problem we have with non-free. If we offer it things can break more easily, if we don't: people go elsewhere.21:16
X-FadeSo we must hope that people care enough to not break things all the time.21:16
GeneralAntilleskonttori still needs to be harassed about UKMP21:17
qole_so the official position on removing a package by myself is, "you can't"?21:17
GeneralAntillesHe seems to have missed my email.21:17
slonopotamusStskeeps, that guy's  main problem is that he started from an ancient stage i think.21:17
X-Fadeqole_: Yes. For now.21:17
johnxslonopotamus, I think he was under the impression there wasn't a more recent one21:18
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qole_X-Fade: I suspect you'll be hearing from me, then :D21:18
Stskeepstrickie: yeah, but that breaks horridly occasionally :P21:19
X-Fadeqole_: You know where to find me.21:19
qole_how do I fix my nick w/  maemo xchat?21:19
slonopotamusjohnx, where i can find a list of all gcc-supported cpus? all these arm,  armeb, armv4t, armv5t?21:19
X-Fade /nick yourname21:19
qole_stupid _21:19
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johnxslonopotamus, that's a good question :)21:20
qolebetter21:20
slonopotamusjohnx, maybe there's even armv6t?21:20
slonopotamusjohnx, and what's that 't' at all...21:21
johnx"thumb" I believe21:21
johnxdon't quote me21:21
slonopotamus;)21:21
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slonopotamusi can't google the list :(21:22
johnxmaybe I can find something21:23
johnxI saw a list once21:23
johnx(and I'm waiting for builds anyways)21:23
* lcuk bangs head on wall @ crashing nokias - why dont same devices all act the same21:24
Stskeepsjohnx: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/ondemand_stats.pdf - ondemand stats on how much time spent in each state (y), x (time in minutes)21:24
Stskeepsjohnx: kinda interesting cos 266mhz/333mhz is hardly used21:25
Stskeeps(i should really do that graph with deltas21:25
lcukStskeeps, not really, at 166 it realises it needs more oooomph so ramps right up21:25
lcukor at least a log scale21:26
johnxlcuk, in your experiment with leaving it in performance mode, it didn't make much difference in idle power usage, right?21:26
lcukits not an experiment, its a way of life21:26
lcuki barely ever change down21:26
Stskeepsliving in the fast lane?21:27
Stskeepshow's your battery performance?21:27
lcukno problems - it still very rarely dies overnight, but it has done that from day 1 and i think thats related to network chip more than anythin21:27
lcukand it lasts perfectly long enough21:27
johnxStskeeps, in idle mode the cpufreq mode doesn't really matter I believe21:27
lcukfor my usage anyway21:27
lcukjohnx, even at 400 the cpu sleeps21:28
lcukits only if its stuck in a 400 loop it will drain faster than if it was stuck in a 166 loop21:28
Stskeepsjohnx: so i guess the problem isn't cpu usage21:29
johnxwell, it's a different sleep then most of us are used to thinking about21:29
Stskeepsi guess21:29
trickieStskeeps: not really i use it in my mamona kernel21:29
Stskeepsmaybe the idle vs cpu cycles will be more interesting21:29
johnxStskeeps, debian is probably full of timers21:29
Stskeepsmm21:29
trickieStskeeps: you disable CONFIG_FB_OMAP_MANUAL_UPDATE and enable CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE21:29
Stskeepstrickie: i know, though, but manual is needed to have a speedy X :P21:30
slonopotamusPermissible names are: `arm2', `arm250', `arm3', `arm6', `arm60', `arm600', `arm610', `arm620', `arm7', `arm7m', `arm7d', `arm7dm', `arm7di', `arm7dmi', `arm70', `arm700', `arm700i', `arm710', `arm710c', `arm7100', `arm7500', `arm7500fe', `arm7tdmi', `arm7tdmi-s', `arm8', `strongarm', `strongarm110', `strongarm1100', `arm8', `arm810', `arm9', `arm9e', `arm920', `arm920t', `arm922t', `arm946e-s', `arm966e-s', `arm968e-s', `arm926ej-s', `arm940t', `arm921:30
slonopotamustdmi', `arm10tdmi', `arm1020t', `arm1026ej-s', `arm10e', `arm1020e', `arm1022e', `arm1136j-s', `arm1136jf-s', `mpcore', `mpcorenovfp', `arm1176jz-s', `arm1176jzf-s', `xscale', `iwmmxt', `ep9312'.21:30
slonopotamusarm cpu vendors are crazy21:31
solmumahamikkov_: dukes seem fine, only the config in sw version differs a little21:31
slonopotamuswhich one n8x0s have?21:31
johnxslonopotamus, one of the arm1121:32
solmumahami maybe you should also change the startup script so that it tells the controls if config is not yet copied21:32
mikkov_solmumaha: should I put same config to sw than in cd version?21:32
trickieStskeeps: yeah true, but if you are trying to bootstrap gentoo, i would rather  not be stuffing around and lose some X performance while i do it21:32
slonopotamusjohnx, i thought armv621:32
solmumahamikkov_: yes21:32
trickieStskeeps: then enable it again21:32
johnxslonopotamus, armv6 = arm1121:32
Stskeepstrickie: true21:32
johnxslonopotamus, don't think about it too hard21:33
slonopotamusjohnx, o_O21:33
mikkov_solmumaha: ok I make the changes and then promote21:33
johnxslonopotamus, well v is the roman numeral for five21:33
solmumahacontrols can be hard to figure out without the readme21:33
slonopotamusjohnx, you broke my mind21:33
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johnxslonopotamus, heh...it has to do with the difference between an instruction set and a physical CPU core I believe21:33
solmumahaso can you make it come up before the config is copied?21:33
GeneralAntillesarmv6 is the instructionset, ARM11 is the hardware.21:34
johnxI think technically the arm11 is a family of CPU designs21:35
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#ARM_cores21:35
slonopotamusjohnx, i think arm-none-linux-gnueabi will be ok for the first try :)21:35
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mikkov_solmumaha: shouldn't be a problem21:37
slonopotamusahha...21:37
slonopotamusARM1136J(F)-S21:38
slonopotamusto `arm1176jz-s' or to `arm1176jzf-s'... that is the question :)21:38
slonopotamusjz = jazelle?21:39
GeneralAntillesWow, that didn't take tim long.21:39
slonopotamusit is disabled?21:39
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solmumahamikkov_: great, must remember to tell pupnik to update the itt post too, you could bump it with the extras info21:40
slonopotamusGeneralAntilles, that was a joke?21:40
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus?21:40
slonopotamusyep?21:40
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johnxslonopotamus, is your name tim?21:40
GeneralAntillesI sent an email to -community about the package categories, I was saying it didn't take timsamoff long to get crackin'.21:41
slonopotamushmm... i thougth it is a typo for 'him'21:41
slonopotamussorry21:41
johnxI read it that way at first too :)21:41
johnxI was just curious if GeneralAntilles had guessed your name21:41
slonopotamusnope, he didn't21:42
johnxand yes, jz probably stands for jazelle, but you can never be sure...21:42
slonopotamus:) gcc opts are a great mystery21:43
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trickieslonopotamus: did you see http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/wiki/InternetTablets21:46
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Stskeepstrickie: but indeed, mamona has many interesting things21:49
Stskeepsyou develop on it or what did you say?21:49
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trickieStskeeps: yep, prefer OE to scratchbox21:50
Stskeepsoh, i meant, you work on it/develop Mamona?21:51
trickiea little bit yes21:51
Stskeepsokay - how's the power usage?21:51
trickiemade some kernel recipes and a few other small things21:51
Stskeeps(on tablets)21:51
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birunkotrickie don't be shy... you are a mamona developer! ;)21:52
trickiebirunko: he he well ok21:52
birunko=)21:53
macoute_btw. which would be the best pdf-reader for maemo?21:53
qolelcuk: http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/21:54
trickieStskeeps: well I do not use it as a 'day to day user' and i do not use wifi as I have a different kernel, but with some tweaks i can leave it idle for at least a few days21:54
GAN800macoute, Evince or the built-in one.21:54
macoute_the built-in one is terribly slow with pdf-ebooks21:55
macoute_that is, bigger pdf:s21:55
trickieStskeeps: I would say it is not any worse than maemo, as it has a smaller footprint, but thats based on absolutely no research :)21:55
macoute_evince would be something to test21:55
Stskeepstrickie: *nod*21:56
Stskeepstrickie: i'm seeing 12 hour when idle running debian (no x, no wifi, no bluetooth), so it's curious :P21:56
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Stskeepsbut then again there might be ways to fix that21:56
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GeneralAntillesmacoute_, I didn't have any trouble with it with Harry Potter VII21:56
GeneralAntillesAdmittedly that was text-only, though.21:56
trickieStskeeps: do you have a idle timeout to dim/blank display?21:57
Stskeepstrickie: ofcourse21:57
trickiethat will suck you dry21:57
Stskeepsyeah, if you don't have it obviously21:57
Stskeepswe communicate with DSME to handle it for us21:57
macoute_GeneralAntilles: mine are too, but they are slow... maybe a problem then with the files or something.21:57
trickieStskeeps: i don't use dsme21:57
macoute_changing a page takes 3-4 seconds21:57
trickieStskeeps: but sometimes i run my own initfs also21:57
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Stskeepstrickie: ah, - i like dsme cos it does do some useful things once in a while :P21:58
trickieStskeeps: or boot straight to sdcard21:58
qolemacoute_, evince is very nice for ebooks21:58
Stskeepson tablets? how do you do that anyway?21:58
Stskeeps(i heard rumour it's possible)21:58
GeneralAntillesmacoute_, honestly, I'd try to convert the pdfs to something FBReader can use.21:58
Stskeepsso loading kernel from sd as well?21:58
macoute_GeneralAntilles: is there tools for that?21:59
macoute_fbreader seemed ok when i tested it21:59
GeneralAntillesI don't recall what I used in the past.21:59
GeneralAntillesBut if you can get them to HTML. . . .21:59
trickieStskeeps: nup21:59
Stskeepsah, ok21:59
GeneralAntillesFBReader will be a lot faster, better formatted and easier to navigate than any PDF reader.21:59
trickieStskeeps: nup hardcoding it in the kernel .config21:59
trickieStskeeps: gotta run, but see http://muru.com/linux/n8x0/ for more info, he is booting linux-omap, but you can do the same otherwise22:00
cyrus___In scratchbox, I am trying to install pyxdg which seems to require root privleges. How do I accomplish that in scratchbox?22:01
johnxcyrus___, fakeroot22:01
johnxerr...hmmm22:01
qoleWell, formatting is PDF's strong point, it can be hard work converting to good HTML for fbreader22:01
johnxtry fakeroot and see if that fixes it22:01
Stskeepstrickie: yeah, i know all of that :P22:01
cyrus___johnx - ok..thanks22:01
ShadowJK_what's /sys/class/leds/cover ?22:02
cyrus___johnx - still got error: could not create '/scratchbox/tools/lib/python2.3/site-packages/xdg': Permission denied22:02
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cyrus___johnx - i ran fakeroot and id says my uid is root, but I still can't write to that folder22:04
* lcuk will get round to implementing pdf decoding one day22:04
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lcukqole, :D heh22:05
johnxcyrus___, well, it only solves the problem if you didn't really need root.22:05
* lcuk watches you type22:05
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RST38hHehehehehe22:06
RST38hYou know what, gentlemen? Bug #3641 is back!22:07
orangey(and ladies)22:07
qwerty12_N800RST38h, really? drinks on me!22:07
RST38hand ladies too, if I can interest any ladies at all in Modest bugs22:07
RST38hqwerty: Save 'em for Modest maintainers, until they finally fix the @#$%ing bug22:08
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qolelcuk: hope it is ok...22:09
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* qole pleads for pdf in liqbase 22:10
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Stskeepsheh22:14
Stskeepshttp://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/maemo.mapper.pdf <- APT dependancy graph for maemo mapper22:14
Stskeeps(zoom in.)22:14
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Stskeepsand that ladies and gentlemen, is how the maemo platform looks like :P22:14
* ShadowJK_ can't zoom in more than 400% :)22:15
lcukqole, advertise for me like that every day and ill add it :P22:15
RST38hSts: This looks like an open N810, when looking from the side22:15
Stskeepshehe22:15
RST38hbut yes, once you zoom in it looks like...mhmmm...maemo platform22:16
johnxStskeeps, I think I saw one of those clogging the drain once O_o22:16
RST38hhttp://vs.fotography.ru/tmp/bla.jpg  <=== Photoshop?22:17
johnxRST38h, zombie22:18
zaphehe, was watching same pic now22:18
zapRST38h: its not photoshop, it's real22:19
zapRST38h: http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1054/mctongue.jpg22:19
|rt|I just got a n810 and was curious if anyone has sucessfully tethered it to a blackberry device via bluetooth22:19
zapwhen it becomes oboious you're a loser, all you can do is to pretend you're a clown22:20
johnx|rt|, I believe so. check on http://internettablettalk.com/forums for people who have22:22
johnxzap, nah, he's just a zombie22:22
zaphe has to die first :)22:22
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johnxzap, I think he must have. if he was alive he'd be like a million years old, right?22:23
zapperhaps he was killed in the Vietnam prison, and now he's a K.G.B zombie22:23
|rt|johnx: thanks for the link22:24
|rt|is there a pptp vpn client out there anywhere?22:24
|rt|I see there's a cisco ipsec client....which I suppose I could use but we typically only use ipsec at work for perminate vpn tunnels22:25
RST38hwhy is he sticking his tongue out so much ? =)22:27
RST38hthere is an alien inside, yessss, my precioussss...22:27
|rt|RST38h: for the same reason that Palin can't help but say the word Maverick22:27
|rt|and McCain has to start every sentence with My friend22:28
RST38hPalin probably has one of those huge alien birds inside her22:30
RST38hrt: Yes but only when he is angered22:30
lcukshe IS one of those huge alien birds22:31
RST38hlooks American to me.22:31
lcukmy point exactly :) from this perspective anyway22:31
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RST38hlcuk: Ah come on, you just have to have a local equivalent! Is there one?22:32
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lcukwell, now you mention it we DO have a local breed of cow that reminds me of her22:33
lcuktbh thou she reminds me kyles mum22:33
GeneralAntillesToo thin.22:34
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lcukyeah i suppose, but if you imagined kyles mum with more weight then it would work22:35
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GeneralAntilles_Kyle's_ mom with more weight? :\22:36
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lcukwhy does sjgadsby's picture on planet look like hes shirtless  ?   *shudder*22:58
GeneralAntillesEhehe22:59
qwerty12_N800i thought the same thing 30 mins ago :p22:59
GeneralAntillesI had the exact same thought when I first saw it.22:59
lcuki got to the bottom of the page and was scared22:59
GeneralAntillesIt's probably one of these, though: http://images.google.com/images?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&q=red%20dirt%20shirt&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi22:59
lcukthe worst part is maemo crapped out and i cant click older22:59
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lcukdo you think i should be worried about these odd random glitches that are experienced with liqbase?23:01
lcukcos currently i feel pretty low about it - ive crashed it myself a few times, but thats just the same with big pcs and stuff23:02
RST38hlcuk: you should23:03
RST38hif it crashes, users will notice it and will not use it23:03
RST38hyou don't really want to be compared to Modest =)23:04
lcukyeah, but users crash things all the time23:04
lcukheh, im not23:04
lcukmy machine crashes if i play half life for too long23:04
lcuki agree though RST38h and ive worked around or removed everything i can now - the silly coding mistakes that segfault are one thing23:05
lcukbut its when x itself craps out and locks up - when im simply rendering bitmaps23:05
GeneralAntillesThen go file a bug report. :P23:06
lcuknothin i can do in code, nothin i can do to continue23:06
lcukheh GeneralAntilles i agree23:06
lcukand on that score GeneralAntilles once i am as certain as possible its not my code i will be filing23:06
melmothregular app should not be allowed to kill X, shouldn they ?23:06
lcukits like xv when rotated has a bug23:06
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lcukmelmoth, no but it can do23:07
melmothideally, building a small test case before filing a bug23:07
lcukheh, if i can reproduce it i can do something23:07
lcukbut when i run the exact same code tohusands (millions) of times over the last few months and nothing has reproduced itself how can i do that23:08
melmothtalking about crash and stuff.. i am afraid there is no way to use gdb and stuff on the scratchbox sdk in armel.23:08
bef0rdyep, I've noticed that latest liqbase is a bit unstable compared with the previous version23:08
melmothare you able to catche core on the tablet ? and use them ?23:08
lcukbef0rd, agreed - its not crapping out on first unknown error anymore and is trying to be more of a hildon app, if you can be more specific i should be able to cure it23:09
lcukthat is something brand new and known to be not 100% yet23:10
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RST38hlcuk: If you manage to fuck up X11, then you are doing something wrong =)23:10
melmothno, that s spotting a X bug, that s good news.23:11
melmoththat is..if somebody can do something about it :)23:11
lcukRST38h, im not - and its not reproducable, but very rarely i get an error and it freezes, in a few weeks if i reproduce it ill save you the error23:11
bef0rdlcuk, i've got two crash at least, the screen went black and got no response23:11
lcukand since x shouts on stderr it wont be in the log23:12
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suihkulokkiStskeeps ?23:14
Stskeepssuihkulokki: mm?23:14
suihkulokkiI'm cleaning 0xffff for debian inclusion23:14
lcukRST38h, this is the type of error it raises when it completely locks (this is not the specific one i just did a google on the keywords)23:15
lcukX Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)23:15
lcukMajor opcode of failed request: 142 (XVideo)23:15
lcukMinor opcode of failed request: 17 ()23:15
Stskeepssuihkulokki: alright, sounds good23:15
suihkulokkias the first package in main dir :P23:15
lcukyet it has been running happily for hours prior to this and continues to run happily afterwards23:15
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RST38hIs 2008.38 available for update?23:16
suihkulokkiStskeeps: so the question remains how to manage the process23:17
Stskeepssuihkulokki: i have no particular interest in 0xffff, atleast - if we make interesting packages, clean up, mention deblet somewhere, retain copyright of package with your copyright notice addition, then i'm fine with it23:18
RST38hlcuk: Oh I know what it is23:18
Stskeeps(i'm a bsd license person, so as long as i'm credited, i'm fine)23:18
lcukenlighten me then23:18
suihkulokkiStskeeps: well, 0xffff is just a example packaging in this case23:18
lcukplease :$23:18
Stskeepssuihkulokki: yep23:18
suihkulokkijust needed to start somewhere ;)23:19
suihkulokkiso eventually we want everything in debian23:19
Stskeeps*nod*23:19
Stskeepswe'll see - some of the packages are direct hacks23:19
Stskeepsbut this is fun working with anyway23:19
Stskeepsyou having it in sid/lenny just lessens our bw load ;)23:19
RST38hlcuk: You are making some XVideo API call and provide bad image attributes23:20
RST38hlcuk: Should I look up those numbers?23:20
lcukbut i dont ever change the attributes and it works for MANY thousands of millions of calls23:20
Stskeepssuihkulokki: just as long as i don't get into any discussions with debian-legal, had enough of those :P23:20
lcukno, thats NOT the actual error23:20
lcukill store it when it happens again - like i said , its happened just a couple of times23:20
lcukthat was the type of error and i just remembered seeing the major and minor opcode bits23:21
suihkulokkiStskeeps: well d-l should be irrelevant for all the main/contrib packages23:22
Stskeeps*nod*23:22
Stskeepsi've tried to put them into main/contrib after guidelines atleast23:22
lcuki would understand if i changed the way i called it and got a reproducable failure - (like i get if i try to only update part of the xv plane) - but this just fails on the spot - i never worried about it cos i remember reading something about it from the original "sdl tearing mplayer" thread thingy23:22
RST38hlcuk: this means that the context of that call execution somehow changes23:22
RST38hlcuk: And you have to check for it somehow23:22
Stskeepssuihkulokki: i'm just happy developing and making interesting things - so just pull upstream whatever you find interesting :)23:23
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Stskeepsthen when the package is availiable in unstable or the likes, we pull from our repo, and so on (i prefer to stay on lenny base for now as .. unstable did funny things while we developed)23:23
lcukRST38h, all i can do is check the result of the 1 call made to XvShmPutImage, which i do, but the error has occured and locked23:24
lcukbefore that returns23:24
lcukso i can never check it23:24
lcukbrb23:24
suihkulokkiStskeeps: well I'd prefer you guys would still keep maintaining them in after they get into debian23:24
suihkulokkiI have to mentor but not so much to maintain23:25
RST38hlcuk: Ok, so you are doing ShmPutImage23:25
Stskeeps*nod*23:25
Stskeepsalright, then deblet repo would serve as development ground i guess :P23:25
RST38hand that call fails?23:25
suihkulokkiyeah, that's fine23:25
Stskeepsi will take patches gladly (and if you want svn commit, you're more than welcome)23:25
suihkulokkido you have a mailing list?23:25
lcukRST38h, no, somewhere within that call it outputs that message and locks23:26
lcukbut only once in a bluemoon23:26
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Stskeepssuihkulokki: for commits? no, just trac's timeline / rss, - most discussions happen here on irc or on ITT23:26
lcukand i call it the same every time23:26
RST38hlcuk: X11 receives that call (remember, it is client server architecture) and fails to execute it23:26
RST38hlcuk: Because it has been doing something else at that moment23:26
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* moontiger wonders where she can send a SQL Scripting For Dummies book so the maemo.org guys can learn how to do databases23:27
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moontigerso slow ... always so slow23:27
suihkulokkiStskeeps: well something to drop as the maintainer address23:27
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Stskeepssuihkulokki: set deblet@tspre.org23:28
lcukRST38h, thats all well and good, but any idea how to prevent it?23:29
lcukdo i need to obtain a lock around it or something?23:29
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GeneralAntillesmoontiger, the server move is still in progress. . . .23:38
Stskeepswasn't this supposed to be done months ago? :P23:39
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, the Finnish summer vacation pushed things back a lot.23:40
GeneralAntillesMore like weeks ago realistically.23:40
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cyrus___when connecting my n810 to desktop computer through USB, only the internal memory card shows up. Anyone know why?23:47
Stskeepscyrus___: maybe external card is in use23:48
macoute_cloned os?23:48
Stskeepsor that23:48
cyrus___Stskeeps - no..I just rebooted it23:48
macoute_and no cloned os?23:48
Stskeepsmetacrawler crawling in places it shouldnt? :P23:48
macoute_can you use it normally?23:48
cyrus___cloned os? - not sure what you mean by that23:49
cyrus___yes I can23:49
macoute_cyrus___: then you prolly dont have it :)23:50
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moontigerGeneralAntilles, really?? it takes me an hour to set up a web server from start to end23:53
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, yeah, one server.23:53
moontigerthey have more than one?23:53
GeneralAntillesLots more23:53
moontigera cluster of n770's?? wow! ;)23:54
GeneralAntillesThey also have lots and lots of heavy applications23:54
GeneralAntillesBugzilla, the wiki, Garage, Midgard, Downloads, the mailing lists, the repositories, etc, etc.23:54
moontigerwhy dont they just have the web server running on its own as a web server?23:54
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GeneralAntillesAnyway, think whatever you want, it's not a simple thing. :)23:55
moontigerim not saying it is but i have written and maintained a few large websites and they were a lot faster with a lot less hardware23:55
moontigerjust puzzling is all23:55
GeneralAntillesAs large as maemo.org? and with as many services?23:56
GeneralAntillesI somehow doubt it.23:56
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moontigerwell 2 load balanced apache servers talking to a video server and a db server23:56
moontigerserving over 1tb of video each month to close on 500k uniques23:56
moontigerand an average of 15million page views per month23:57
moontigerso not trivial23:57
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GeneralAntillesThe stuff running maemo.org _is_ open source, I'm sure they'd be happy to have additional help. :)23:58

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