IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-10-13

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Stskeepsthe problems with experiments and documenting them, is that eventually someone will stumble upon them and fail miserably at it00:16
Stskeepsbecause they weren't the target audience00:16
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Stskeepswhich is why nuclear bomb blueprints shouldn't be on the net.00:16
Stskeeps:P00:16
mavhcwhich is why we should develop personal shield technology00:17
lcuknuclear bombs are kinda self solving00:18
BULLE_Stskeeps: the main issue is not to understand or get hold of the blueprints, a decent university physics student can do that, what you will have problems with, is getting hold of the stuff that goes b0000m00:18
BULLE_lcuk: darwin style ?00:18
lcukif they play for too long they die of radiation, if it works they burn in a fireball00:18
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mavhcthe problem is refining it with centrifuges00:19
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lcukevening lardman \o00:19
lardmanhi lcuk00:20
lardmanhow goes it?00:20
Stskeepswell, in this case it was about deblet 770 port. people have a tendancy to straight away trust guides and not realize the context/audience, and think documented experiments are absolute truths00:20
lcukquite good actually, i had something i wanna run by you, but its probably made your work account ping, hang on a mo00:20
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zakkmHow's VNC on the n800 ?00:24
GAN800Fine.00:25
zakkmis it worth VNC'ing?00:25
zakkmand using apps then using mameo?00:25
zakkmLocal networked.. that is00:25
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lcukwhich way round00:25
zakkmNokia controlling PC..00:26
lcukvnc is vnc then, obviously lower res screen than usual, but it pans and can be rotated00:26
zakkmor rdesktop will do too00:27
BULLE_zakkm: you dont get stellar performance from vnc client on a n80000:27
BULLE_zakkm: but its perfectly useable00:27
lardmanhey qwerty12_N80000:27
zakkmwill it be better than using maemo apps for instance? / same ??00:27
lardmanqwerty12_N800: a belated happy birthday to you00:27
BULLE_zakkm: it will of coursse be worse00:27
qwerty12_N800hi lardman :)00:27
zakkmah00:27
qwerty12_N800lardman, thanks :)00:27
BULLE_zakkm: atleast if you are thinking of screen update speed, and so on00:27
zakkmOver local networked im thinking too00:28
BULLE_zakkm: on the other hand, if you run some app eating 1024mb ram on the server, then, well, that wont run on the n800, so then its way faster00:28
zakkmnah just normal usage00:28
Proteousthe most annoying part of using rdesktop and vnc on the tablet is trying to manipulate tiny things on the screen with the stylus00:28
BULLE_zakkm: but imho its not worth running say firefox over vnc, or similar, in order to get faster webbrowser00:28
Proteoushard to be accurate00:28
BULLE_Proteous: yeah, and also using programs that are designed for extensive keyboard use00:28
zakkmah00:29
mavhcI don't find rdp that bad00:29
BULLE_well, its not bad, its useable, but i do prefer running stuff local on the n800 instead of via an rdp session00:29
BULLE_atleast for stuff that the n800 can handle00:29
Proteousactualy, since I finaly got a cable and updated my n810, the unintentionaly double tapping problem has gone away mostly, that helps a bit00:30
zakkmTrying to find little ways to speedup my n800 usage.00:30
zakkmwhat about like00:30
zakkmIf i have a document on my home PC right00:30
zakkmand i wanted to read it in the living room00:30
zakkmwould the performance be good enough?00:30
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lcukvnc is not useful to speedup apps, but its useful in its original intent, to gain access to a remote system00:30
BULLE_lcuk: exactly00:30
lcukzakkm, why not just share doc on the network and view live though..00:30
BULLE_i use vnc and openvpn when im on the move00:31
zakkmtis an example00:31
zakkmjust normal usage stuff00:31
zakkmno web00:31
mavhcdepends, which is more resourcy, the data or the display of the data00:32
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Proteousresourcy, I live it00:34
Proteouser, love00:34
zakkmhow long have you all owned a NIT?00:34
Proteoussince the n770s were on woot.com for $12500:35
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Proteouswhenever that was...00:35
zakkm$125 :O00:35
zakkmi had to buy my 770 on ebay for $85 . .WSOD two weeks later00:35
Proteousyeah, mine eventualy WSODed00:35
Proteousso did my brothers00:36
zakkmthat sucks00:36
Proteousbut one of my other brothers who bought one is still going00:36
zakkmI didnt know they wsod'd when i first bought it00:36
ProteousMine was still under warrenty when it happened but I just got a n810 instead00:36
Proteouskeyboard FTW00:36
ProteousI use ssh a lot so it's worth it00:37
zakkmah00:37
zakkmI personally like the thumb keyboard :)00:37
Proteousit was usefull but it obscured the screen00:37
zakkmdidn't think of that.00:37
Proteousso you couldn't see what was going on when you were slowly typing something out00:37
zakkmprice is so much higher though00:39
zakkmthat's like the only difference isnt it?00:39
BULLE_WSOD ?00:39
ProteousI got mine as an open box from amazon warehouse for $32500:39
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zakkmwsod = white screen of death00:39
zakkmevantually the N770's stay white.. when you turn it on.. making it useless / garbage00:39
zakkmno way to fix00:39
BULLE_oh, never heard of, but i have never had an 770 either, so i guess that explains why00:39
BULLE_zakkm: oh, and what is it that breaks ?00:40
zakkmthe LCD itself i think00:40
BULLE_i see00:40
zakkmthe thing that connects the LCD to the motherboard or soemthing00:40
zakkmthat wire00:40
Proteouswell, probably one the chips that drives the LCD00:40
zakkmw.e nobody fixed it00:40
Proteousthe screen isn't totaly white, if you look at it at an off angle you can sorta see parts of the screen that are trying to render00:40
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zakkm$325 is alot00:40
zakkmnot on mine.00:41
zakkmit will all white00:41
Proteouszakkm: I guess00:41
zakkmif i clicked aronud sometimes there was vertical lines00:41
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Proteousfor the amount of use I get out of my n810 it's not a lot00:41
ProteousI use it every day00:41
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zakkmso you dont regret buying it for that price?00:42
Proteousno00:42
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zakkmdo you use maemo?00:42
Proteousyeah00:43
zakkm07 or 08??00:43
Proteousdiablo00:43
cyrus__Stskeeps - ok..so I can give it a try now..will do00:43
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mavhcthat's nothing, I paid £250, that's more like $500, 3 months ago00:44
cyrus__Stskeeps - I don't have to reinstall the package right...just run the Install deblet?00:44
zakkm:O00:44
zakkmmavhc: why'd you pay so much?00:44
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Stskeepscyrus__: right00:45
Stskeepsreboot tablet first ideally00:45
mavhcwell, 17.5% vat for a start00:45
cyrus__Stskeeps - ok..goign to do it now00:45
mavhcso that's $420, uk just has high prices00:45
zakkmim having enough trouble trying to save up $180 for a used NOKIA N800 --00:45
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BULLE_zakkm: prices in europe are sky high, because the dollar is so weak00:46
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BULLE_asking price for n810 here is around 500usd aswell, new00:47
BULLE_its not THAT expensive imho00:47
zakkm... in a store like 5min from my house.. its $349.99 CDN00:47
zakkmn81000:47
zakkmbrand new00:47
mavhcodd, as nokia is in .eu00:47
BULLE_mavhc: nokia is from finland, they are special .......00:48
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zakkmThis might sound weird but will a external usb harddrive work on the nokia n800?00:48
BULLE_but, an n810 is priced as a midrange cellphone here00:48
cyrus__Stskeeps - just starting the package install now. Will let you know in about 2 hours if it is good or not00:48
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BULLE_a highend phone will set you back, say 1000usd ( think high end nokia or new sony ericsson xperia )00:48
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Stskeepscyrus__: this is a n800/n810 btw?00:49
zakkmIs ClawsMail fast on the n800 ?00:49
zakkmHey, if im in wifi .. is there a way that the nokia does something if i get a new email ?00:49
zakkmlike an applet tells me or something00:50
zakkmthinking gmail.00:50
sp3000there might be a notifier applet, dunno if it's good00:51
sp3000if you configure the mail client, it can blink the light and make a sound and show a list of new stuff00:51
zakkmIs Claws Mail quicker than built-in mail?00:52
zakkmsp3000: yeah thats it :P thanks00:52
zakkmI was thinking something like that00:52
zakkmdoes Mail Client have to be open though?00:52
* Stskeeps still loathes modest00:52
lcukzakkm, no1 can blame you for not making an informed choice :)00:52
zakkm?00:52
GAN800The 770's display controller would gte overvoltage on startup00:52
zakkmlcuk: ?00:52
GAN800I have two, and from Nov 2005 and one from woot and neither have failed.00:53
lcukyou have asked so many questions so far00:53
zakkmI know :(00:53
GAN800Stskeeps, why loathe?00:53
lcukdont worry at all, its best00:53
zakkmI like to know everything before i buy something.00:53
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lcukand your questions spark debate :)00:53
GAN800At least it's open source. . . .00:53
zakkmWhen i buy the nokia it will make me broke00:53
zakkmGAN800: my nokia n770 froze, i rebooted, BAM WSOD00:54
StskeepsGAN800: when i'm sitting on a gprs, the last thing i want for it is to suddenly not respond to my "cancel" commands00:54
Stskeepsor start talking about downloading 1000s of messages in another folder :P00:54
sp3000zakkm: no, the ui doesn't need to be up for it to check in the bg00:55
GAN800s/n770/770/g00:55
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zakkmDoes it check in the background though?00:55
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kpelyes00:55
Stskeepshow was it with Maemo's icd.. the UI is closed but engine is open?00:57
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kpeldunno.00:57
ShadowJK_icd?00:58
qwerty12_N800meh, i'm confused about nokia decides to open source. sounds like they pick names out of a hat00:58
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qwerty12_N800ShadowJK_, internet connectivity daemon00:58
zakkmDoes mail support attachments?00:59
zakkmlike adding attachments to your email?00:59
kpelnever tried attaching anything. but i think i did receive email with attachhments01:00
Stskeepshas DSME come out yet?01:00
Stskeeps:P01:00
ShadowJK_can't open source the connectivity thing, it's better than NetworkManager ;p01:00
Stskeepstrue01:00
qwerty12_N800oh for sure. nm is a tosser01:00
Stskeepsand that's the scary part01:00
zakkmUsing canola to play a song? does it take significantly more battery life than the builtin media player?01:01
kpelno idea01:02
kpelbtw, you don't work for the android team, do you? :P01:02
zakkmme?01:02
zakkmBesides its owned by Google, i really know nothing about Android01:02
lcukno, hes nokia market research01:02
lcukcheckin if we know our product ;)01:03
zakkmhaha01:03
cyrus__Stskeeps - as for your question..yes an N81001:03
zakkmCanola looks so good :)01:03
Stskeepscyrus__: alright01:03
kpeli find it a  bit slow and it takes up a lot of precious storage. too bad we can't select to install apps on the removable memory card01:04
zakkmdoes it get faster with release?01:04
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zakkmlike overtime will it get faster?01:04
lcukkpel, technically as a simple solution you could symlink any part of the root fs to a memory card01:05
zakkm:O its skinnibe01:05
lcuki believe..01:05
zakkmwouldnt you mount the SD into the directory? not symlink ?01:05
qwerty12_N800just be sure the sd is mounted in time when booting...01:05
lcukheh01:06
cyrus__Stskeeps - it has been going for a bit now and just sitting at Retrieving adduser01:06
cyrus__Stskeeps - anything I should be lookign for here?01:06
zakkmsymlink would still install to the internal wouldnt it?01:06
zakkmjust let your SD apps work too ?01:06
zakkmbut nothing would install to it?01:06
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kpellcuk: true. and after every os upgrade i would have to repeat this workaround01:07
lardmanI think the point was to symlink something under /usr to the memory card01:07
lardmantherefore things would be installed there automatically01:07
cyrus__Stskeeps - since you said you did something with sudoers I was wondering if maybe this has some affect on the adduser package01:07
zakkmisn't it mount SD to /usr. .. though.. rather than symlink SD with internal /usr01:07
kpelyes, and after flashing a new os image the symlinks would be gone01:08
zakkmbut if you symlink .. it would install to both places..01:08
kpelzakkm: by default the SD is mounted i01:08
zakkmif you mount.. it would only install to SD01:08
kpelin /media/mmc101:08
zakkmyes but you can also mount it into /usr01:08
Stskeepscyrus__: ah, no, adduser and debootstrap comes before we do anything deblet-specific01:08
Stskeepscyrus__: right now you're just installing Debian for ARMEL01:08
Stskeepsafter that phase, we put packages on top to make it usable (ie, not a blank screen :P)01:09
lardmanzakkm: if you symlink to /usr/bin, lib, etc., it will only be installed to the directories you symlinked01:09
lardmanbut yes, mounting it is another option01:09
* lcuk sparks debates with his wayward tongue and incorrect syntax. 01:09
kpelzakkm: if you mount the card on /usr you lose all the default contents of /usr until you unmount the card01:09
cyrus__Stskeeps - ok...i will leave it for a bit and see if it continues or just sits there01:09
lcukat least you lot knew what i meant even if i got the details wrong ;)01:09
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zakkmyes01:10
zakkmthats why you clone /usr into the SD first01:10
zakkmthen the internal memory /usr will be empty01:10
zakkmwont take any space01:10
zakkmand you mount to the SD into /usr01:10
* Stskeeps heads to sleep01:10
lcukStskeeps, good night :)01:10
lardmanYou'd have to check that the device can boot without /usr anyway (theoretically it should work, but you never know)01:10
zakkmsure SD will always be used, but isnt that what you wanted? no space in/usr ? "unlimited" storage in /usr01:10
zakkmSD will alwy sneed to be in*01:11
kpelbut this way you don't use the sd to extend the storage space but to replace internal storage with external01:11
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zakkmyes01:11
lcukzakkm, aint that like old computers needing to leave a certain floppy in01:11
zakkmisnt that what the question was?01:11
lcukthats not exactly a big deal :001:11
lcuk) even01:11
lardmanextending is hard without symlinking each app individually a la ipkg-link, or using a special fs01:11
zakkmsymlink will require space in both internal and external ... cloning and mounting wont..01:11
lardmanzakkm: symlink the directory!01:12
zakkmah w.e lol01:12
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kpelor convince nokia to add a reasonable amount of flash memory instead of having users jump through hoops ;)01:12
zakkmor convince nokia to make maemo smaller01:13
zakkmso theres more room01:13
zakkmthat way we wont need a new NIT -.-01:13
kpelyes. only bash and vim should be allowed!01:13
kpelj/k01:13
zakkmlol01:14
zakkmthere are ways :P01:14
kpel(who needs vim after all when you have cat)01:14
zakkmwho needs vim when you have a pencil and paper :D lol01:14
lcukim vanishin for a bit anyway, catch you lot later on01:14
kpelc ya lcuk01:14
* qwerty12_N800 cries as i have to build optmised mpd again. i hate all the music players for maemo. mpd ftw. 01:15
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lardmannight lcuk01:15
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kpelmusic for maemo? why? are music playing smart phones that bad?01:16
zakkmqwerty12_N800: how well does mpd in terms of battery life?01:16
qwerty12_N800zakkm, no idea, i never really test for battery life but cpu usage and mem usage  with mpd are very low01:17
qwerty12_N800kpel, i prefer walkman phones :)01:17
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zakkmqwerty12_N800: back in my gentoo days, I used mpd and sonata.01:18
zakkmbut i was curious about using mpd on my n800 ..01:18
zakkmand using my home pc as a mpd server01:18
qwerty12_N800sure, it works. i use mmpc + mpd on the tablet and sonata on the pc for controlling the n800. but sonata is available for maemo too01:19
zakkmyeah i was just going to say i would probably use sonata01:20
zakkmI used it for PC and the maemo port looks really goodd01:20
zakkmI was just curious on how well it compares to the actual media player builtin app01:20
zakkmif i would get better battery on sonata/mpd vs builtin media player app01:20
qwerty12_N800the mpd compile for tablets is pretty old so i took the time to compile the latest mpd and recompile all the audio libs to use the vfp etc but i lost all my debs :/01:21
zakkmHaha01:22
zakkmI used 0.13 for PC i believe.01:23
qwerty12_N800yeah, that's the one i compiled for maemo. you can get 0.12 from the garage01:23
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zakkmNice.01:24
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zakkmyou try sonata on the nit?01:24
qwerty12_N800yep, works well except for slow startup time. but i blame it being in python for that.01:25
qwerty12_N800(this was with python-launcher running)01:25
zakkmeek01:26
zakkmwhats mmpc like? never used it/ havent heard much about it01:26
qwerty12_N800it's ok, i like it, looks a bit like the built in player. it's fast but playlist/library management skills leave a lot to be desired01:28
zakkmThis might sound dumb but can i have mpd on my pc at home.. and make it stream music to my nokia NIT ?01:29
zakkmand music outputs from my nokia?01:29
qwerty12_N800http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1905901:30
qwerty12_N800sounds like what you wa01:30
qwerty12_N800nt01:30
zakkmno01:30
zakkmi was tihknig being in school . .and having my home music collection.01:30
zakkmnot using the n800 as a soundcard for pc01:30
zakkmso like sonata on my n800 shows my home music collection.. and when i play a song.. it "streams" from my home pc01:31
zakkmand plays on my nokia.01:31
qwerty12_N800you could try the icecast feature of  mpd01:31
zakkmisnt that just radio?01:31
qwerty12_N800no, it can stream your music01:31
lardmannight all01:34
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zakkmnight01:34
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zakkmdoes the newest diablo use microb?01:54
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closet_zakkm: yup, still microb I believe.02:19
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zakkmcloset_ thanks02:25
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bef0rdnew personal menu configuration dialog looks nicer03:05
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cyrus__Stskeeps - looks good. Installation completed without error03:13
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cyrus__Stskeeps - success. Deblet is booting. Thanks for the help03:20
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cyrus__Stskeeps - everything is good but I find that deblet runs very very slow.03:54
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cactaurWhere can I find the kernel sources on the N800?06:36
cactaurOr... are they even on the N800?06:39
whodati only see "openstreet" in maemo mapper, how do i get the google maps?06:39
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moontigerhas anybody else been having "issues" with maemo.org?06:46
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`0660yeah06:58
`0660seemed to be down06:58
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moontigerhow come its so hard for them to get a working web site??!!??07:32
moontigersheesh07:32
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RST38hhttp://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article847365.ece07:40
RST38hHehe07:40
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RST38hmoontiger: I have got a theory on that but nobody is listening07:40
RST38hmoontiger: My guess is that their publishing system (Midgard) issues SQL queries that bring down the MySQL07:41
RST38hEither due to lack of proper indices or just because the queries are too complex.07:41
doc|homeRST38h: that's just dumb07:42
RST38hWhy? It is really easy to get into this situation, especially if you are not watching MySQL logs07:43
RST38hBut the fun part is that if I am right, no amount of extra hardware will save their ass =)07:44
`0660:)07:47
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slonopotamusqemu: Unsupported syscall: 30308:46
slonopotamusqemu: Unsupported syscall: 30308:46
slonopotamusqemu: Unsupported syscall: 29908:46
slonopotamusqemu: Unsupported syscall: 30008:46
slonopotamusis it good?08:46
moontigersorry was away08:46
moontigerRST38h, yah something is def screwy08:46
moontigeri write high perf websites for a living and this makes no sense08:46
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moontigerif the queries are that complex to be slowing things down that much it means the db design isnt very good08:47
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RST38hslonopotamus: it is normal. qemu sucks. debug on the real tablet.10:02
slonopotamusRST38h, tell that to autobuilder :)10:03
RST38hah10:03
slonopotamusaha10:03
RST38hautobuilder.10:03
RST38hwhat part of the build process caused these?10:04
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slonopotamushttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/fakeroot_1.9.5/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt10:04
slonopotamusmaybe autobuilder should pass "nocheck" option for armel target... because it often has troubles.10:05
RST38husing cell phone. cant open links.10:05
slonopotamusoh10:05
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slonopotamuserror happens during tests10:05
RST38hwell, your best bet would be asking x-fade for help10:05
slonopotamusX-Fade, gimme som help, please :)10:06
slonopotamuss/som/some10:06
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RST38hsdk qemu does not support all maemo features (file dialog will kill it for example) so using it to test is not very fruitful10:07
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hrwmorning10:25
johnxhey hrw. you tried to update the hildon packages in OE a while back, didn't you?10:25
hrwRST38h: it is not qemu fault but scratchbox fault - they use old qemu10:26
hrwjohnx: Poky has them10:26
johnxw00t!10:26
hrwin one of experimental branches10:26
johnxI'll look :)10:27
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RST38hhrw: Oh10:32
Jaffamorning, all10:40
johnxmornin' Jaffa10:41
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RST38hhrw: May it be possible to upgrade qemu at least inside the autobuilder installation?10:44
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hrwRST38h: I am not familiar with sbox and have no idea which patches they apply to qemu10:47
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RST38hbetter wait for X-Fade and talk him into it then =)10:49
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RST38hmoo, johnx11:53
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RST38h~curse maemo.org in general and Midgard in particular for 2+ minute page load times11:54
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, maemo.org in general and Midgard in particular for 2+ minute page load times !11:54
aquatixsoooo, servers not entirely migrated yet?11:55
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RST38hno idea.11:56
RST38has I said, I doubt migration will help11:56
tekojoRST38h, aquatix: the web servers yes, but the database server is slow and buggy11:56
tekojoLooking at hardware and MySQL11:57
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RST38htekojo: Have you looked at MySQL execution logs?11:57
tekojoPersonally no11:57
tekojoI'm not too good with MySQL11:57
RST38htekojo: Does MySQL have commands like EXPLAIN to show what each query ends up doing and how long each operation takes?11:57
tekojoHope so, but don't know, if it were Oracle I would know :-)11:58
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tekojoBut the OS level statistics also show something fishy going on11:59
RST38htekojo: I do not think it is that much different nowadays11:59
RST38htekojo: My strong suspicion is you are missing a few important indices (easy to fix - CREATE INDEX ON) *or* issuing queries that are too complex11:59
tekojoThat could be one thing that is wrong, but I fear that it is that plus something else.12:00
tekojoOr worse the hardware is broken12:00
RST38hnot likely12:01
* RST38h usually trusts the hardware: it either dies completely or it works12:01
tekojoWell, the stats look pretty strange12:02
tekojoI am having everything checked just to be sure12:03
tekojoAnd I am a pretty frustrated with this ongoing problem too12:03
RST38hI would be ok with some delays but 2+ minutes is unrealistic12:06
RST38hA bit more, and we will have to send HTTP requests by email12:06
RST38hJust updated ColEm and MasterGear for Maemo. Whoever is interested, either install/update from Extras or use the homepages12:08
tekojoIt's not sending the http, it's getting the answer (just need to send us your home address and a self addressed stamped envelope...)12:09
aquatixmight indeed be missing some indices12:13
aquatixand yes, mysql has explain functionality :)12:14
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lardmanmorning all12:58
* lcuk lobs a tumbleweed @ lardman13:01
lcukmornin simon13:01
lcukbut im not actually here, so cya later13:02
RST38hehlo, lardman, lcuk13:05
lardmanlol lcuk, hi anyway13:06
lardmanhi RST38h13:06
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_|Nix|_Hi! Where can I get a maemo.org logo SVG?13:20
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L0cutushello13:23
L0cutusseems we need the new kernel on n8** it :)13:23
L0cutusthe new FS seems very useful13:24
L0cutusUBFIS (Unsorted Block Images File System)13:24
L0cutusborn for ssd/flash cards13:24
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lcuklardman, just to let you know i put that fakey multitouch idea into code and its in the latest deb for liqbase.  it seems to work quite well and stays with the second moving finger13:32
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lcukthe itT thread should have a link13:33
lardmancool, will give it a go when I get a chance13:33
* lcuk runs off again, POA screens to do13:33
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trickie|workL0cutus: not for sdcards13:50
trickie|workfor raw flash13:50
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L0cutustrickie|work, are you sure ?13:58
L0cutuswhy not sd ?13:58
trickie|workyes im sure13:59
trickie|workhttp://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/doc/ubifs.html13:59
trickie|workread the big note at the top13:59
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crashanddietrickie|work, the n810 runs mtdblock, right?14:09
crashanddie(well, Diablo as a whole)14:09
trickie|workyep, which i think emulates block devices from raw flash14:11
trickie|workso to access the raw flash as a block device14:12
crashanddieyeah, but isn't that like crap?14:12
trickie|worksdcards usually have block device emulation in hardware14:12
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crashanddieusing mtdblock is a very bad idea because what it basically does if you change any sector of you mtdblockX device, it reads the whole corresponding eraseblock into the memory, erases the eraseblock, changes the sector in RAM, and writes the whole eraseblock back. This is very straightforward. If you have a power failure when the eraseblock is being erased, you lose all the block device sectors in it. The flash will likely decay soon14:12
crashanddiebecause you will wear few eraseblocks out - most probably those ones which contain FAT/bitmap/inode table/etc.14:12
trickie|workcrashanddie: not sure of the pro's or con's but i guess it makes it easier to make raw flash behave similar to other storage devices14:13
trickie|worki thought the fs did the wear-levelling14:13
Stskeepscrashanddie: aren't you thinking about jffs and not mtd?14:13
Stskeepsjffs has the whole eraseblock stuff14:14
crashanddiehey, that's just a copy paste from linux-mtd.infradead.org :P14:14
crashanddielink given above14:14
Stskeepscrashanddie: if mtdblock is so bad, why does UBIFS run on top of it? :P14:15
crashanddiedunno14:15
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Stskeepsfat on top of mtdblock, sure, bad :P14:15
crashanddieStskeeps, ubi doesn't run atop mtdblock14:16
Stskeepscrashanddie: ubi subsystem runs on top of mtd subsystem, and ubifs runs on top of ubi subsystem14:17
Stskeepslook at your own link14:17
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crashanddieStskeeps, eh?14:19
crashanddieStskeeps, mtdblock != mtd subsystem14:19
trickie|worki guess ubi is a next generation mtdblock14:20
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trickie|workand iguess they use mtdblock now cause there are not many alternatives14:21
crashanddieStskeeps, mtdblock translates an MTD to conform to a regular block device. UBI accesses the raw flash, and thus uses it as a regular MTD device14:21
crashanddiemtdblock gives you access to sectors, which are mapped into a single eraseblock. UBI uses eraseblocks directly14:22
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Stskeepscrashanddie: ah14:30
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blafasel_Stupid question: I installed the deb that clones my installation to the SD card, and after that I always have to listen to that retarded "I pronounce linux linux" sample. Funny, but please, please tell me where this thing hides so that I can kill it.14:40
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napsy_Hello. I ported my gtk+ program to nokia n800 with os2008. Now I'm interested to put the program to fullscreen. How could I do that?14:48
aquatixpress the fullscreen button?14:49
napsy_It doesn't work14:49
aquatixor by default?14:49
aquatixoh14:49
Mekdamn, that default media player application in maemo really sucks... the text "Playing: foobar" shows another song than it is actually playing :)14:49
aquatixoh?14:49
aquatixi haven't encountered that14:49
aquatixi even use it as default music player14:50
aquatixworks for me14:50
melmothnapsy_: add a callback that launch fullscreen() whenever the f6 key is pressed14:50
Mekprobably some race condition or somethin I guess14:50
aquatixMek: i guess indeed14:50
napsy_melmoth, can I force fulscreen without pressing the key?14:51
RST38hMek: it is probablydesyncing because of dbus14:51
melmothadd a call to fullscreen() directly14:51
napsy_ok I'll try, tnx14:51
solmumahai think you need to toggle fullscreen/unfullscreen14:51
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napsy_hmm14:52
napsy_ undefined reference to `fullscreen'14:52
melmothshould be recognise by any top window (gtk or hildon)14:53
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napsy_ok14:54
luogninapsy_, gtk_window_fullscreen (....) and gtk_window_unfullscreen (...) look at the gtk reference guide!14:55
napsy_ok tnx14:55
luogninp14:55
crashanddieaquatix, same here, default media player works fine :)14:56
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lopzhola15:01
napsy_hm strange I get a segfault if I try to fullscreen the window15:03
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melmothrandom idea: try to fullscreen it later on (just in case it was not exisiting or displayed where you try)15:04
napsy_ok15:05
RST38hnapsy: it means that something in your window is broken15:05
napsy_well it works fine if I don't call _fullscreen()15:06
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napsy_ok it works now15:11
RST38hnapsy: try disabling all the widgets and see if it starts working15:11
RST38hwhat was it?15:11
napsy_when I was commenting out hildon code I forgot that Hildon Program wasn't allocated15:11
solmumahanapsy_: what does your app do?15:12
RST38hurgh15:12
RST38hthat will do it for you.15:12
napsy_solmumaha, it simmulates something .. sry I can't go into details :-)15:13
melmothit sure stimulate our curiosity15:13
napsy_:)15:15
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lcukit simulates seg faults15:17
lcukvery good at it as well15:17
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lcukfaster and more accurate than anything15:18
lcukeven in fullscreen now15:18
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RST38hHey, gentlemen, I have got a strange question15:21
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RST38hWhen you have your tablet laying somewhere and an email comes, it will start flashing that little envelope icon at the left bottom corner of the screen right?15:22
hrwRST38h: I had that way15:22
RST38hWhat happens with the battery in this case? Will it drain the battery faster while flashing the icon?15:22
RST38hI know for sure that enabling scroll in the RSS reader applet drains the battery really fast. What about the email notification?15:23
luogniRST38h, i think (hope) the flashing will be disabled when the screen go black15:23
lcukif you are sending data to the lcd on a regular basis then yeah it will be active and will drain faster  (thats common sense, not surei f its true)15:23
RST38hbut the real question is: DOES IT flash the icon when the screen is off?15:25
solmumahaand does it stop flashing after a while?15:25
lcukRST38h, same can be said for things like titlebar clock or the flashing cursor on searchbox15:26
RST38hlcuk: Title bar clock is harmless - it updates once a minute15:26
Stskeepsi still wonder if X refreshes the screen while screen off honestly15:26
RST38hFlashing searchbox cursor I have been suspecting for a long time15:26
luogniit doesn't stop after a while, i receive some time mails during the night and in the morning it's still flashing. i just think that it doesn't flash when the screen is off because i never have low battery in the morning..15:27
Stskeepsthat would be a simple hack/improvement15:27
RST38hBut it is not usually activated15:27
lcukare you sure...  if its out of sync timing wise, it could display  the same minute number for nearly 2 minutes15:27
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RST38hwell, rss reader with scrolling brings it down for sure, even with the screen off15:27
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RST38hSo, I guess it is still refreshing unless application tells it not to15:28
Stskeepsmaybe a simple screensaver that goes blank would help on things?15:28
Stskeepsthen it doesn't get asked to redraw15:28
RST38hbut these things initiate redraws themselves15:28
Stskeepsmm15:28
lcukStskeeps, then you have dual problem of one element attempting to refresh its part of the screen then being overdrawn by the blank overlapping window15:29
GAN800Things stop update when the screen in blank.15:29
GAN800s/update/updating/15:29
infobotGAN800 meant: Things stop updating when the screen in blank.15:29
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StskeepsGAN800: cos of a hildon/gtk trick or?15:29
lcukGAN800, dont be so certain.  the app has to specifically listen for the correct events and handle accordingly15:30
GAN800Dunno the specifics, but they do.15:30
GAN800lcuk, and Nokia stuff does.15:30
GAN800As they'd be out of spec if they didn't.15:30
lcukwhat about the known problem of rss reader drainage15:31
GAN800Random 3rd party shit, sure, there's uncertainty there, but we're not talking random 3rd party shit.15:31
lcukapparantly still scrolling in the dark15:31
GAN800That should've been fixed a while ago.15:32
GAN800If it's not stopping, then that's a bug and should be reported15:32
GAN800but the spec says they stop.15:32
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lcukyes, and as with everything, sometimes variations and exclusions from the spec occur and you rightly say they are bugs15:33
RST38hbut the key is that this stoppage has to happen in response to a gtk event?15:33
GAN800I believe it's a dbus event.15:33
solmumahai'd suspect that too15:34
lcukRST38h, yes, theres events which occur centrally to tell you to essentially hibernate because you arent topdog anymore and blank unblank lock type events15:34
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lcukhowever, im not sure how many of these events things like desktop applets are expected to listen to15:35
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lcukits these events that i bail of out liqbase on, i havent got 100% info on how to handle them, so i close app as soon as they occur - better that than sit there draining battery or stuck in background15:36
GAN800I know for sure home applets are expected to stop when they're in the background or the screen is blanked.15:38
lcukbut things like rss run concurrently with other applets, what do you mean by background?15:39
lcukas in when a fullapp is coveruing?15:39
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* RST38h is not handling those events right now15:43
RST38hProbably should go to sleep or something15:43
GAN800There can only be one window on top, when the desktop isn't it, they shouldn't be doing things.15:43
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Stskeepswhy does people want dsme for light sensor alterations? that's mce? :P15:44
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lcukplugin base example here http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Writing_a_Plug-in_for_Maemo15:45
GAN800I just want to be able to play with Nokia's broken sensor logic, whereever it is.15:45
lcukshows the api entries called by hildon for foreground/background/statesave - but the example doesnt use them15:45
RST38hOn the other hand, I sleep on focus-out15:45
RST38hIs that sufficient?15:45
StskeepsGAN800: ..get a 770 and get mce.tar.gz :P15:45
Stskeepsfrom HE15:46
lcukRST38h, is yours a desktop applet15:46
crashanddieStskeeps, Firefox can't find the server at mce.tar.gz.15:46
Fatalmachine check exception?15:46
Stskeepscrashanddie: pft15:46
Stskeeps:P15:46
_|Nix|_Gods below! maemo.org is /still/ horribly slow ...15:47
RST38hlcuk: No, normal app15:47
GAN800Nix, server move still isn't done, apparentlt.15:47
_|Nix|_I've literally been waiting 5 minutes for http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/15:47
inzlcuk, that's for the old ugly API15:47
RST38hlcuk: But the matter still applies15:47
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GAN800Fatal, machine control entity.15:48
RST38hNix: The common conclusion reached this morning is that you should use email to send http requests to maemo.org from now on15:48
_|Nix|_LOL :o)15:48
RST38hBut at least these guys started figuring out that something fishy is going on with their MySQL server15:48
FatalGAN800: ok, I've only run into MCE as part of kernel output, and there it's machine check exception, I hate TLAs :)15:48
_|Nix|_"Hi!, Could you guys please attach http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ to your reply to this email? TIA, and Best regards!"15:49
_|Nix|_At least the buildbot is decent.15:49
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RST38hJust this morning there were complainta about the buildbot15:52
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RST38hApparently it tries to test an application using QEmu and SB1 version of QEmu is unreliable15:52
_|Nix|_BTW: I've uploaded a debhelper-like add-package-icon-to-package util to extras-devel: debhelper-maemo-package-icons. You simply add debian/package-name.png and put dh_maemo_package_icons to the top of the binary-arch target and dh_maemo_package_icons --remove to the bottom of binary-arch, and all packages that have package-name.png files in debian/ will have that as their package icon.15:53
_|Nix|_Whaddya think? Disastrous?15:53
RST38hPure evil.15:54
_|Nix|_Egads! Why?15:54
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Stskeeps_|Nix|_: sounds good15:56
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: Sweetness ...15:56
RST38hWhat is wrong with running uuencode -m and pasting the result into control file?15:56
* Jaffa assumes RST38h is being sarcastic.15:57
_|Nix|_RST38h: You have to keep your control file up-to-date.15:57
* RST38h is always like that15:57
RST38hNix: My icons change very rarely, isn't much of a problem...15:57
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fijalhello16:07
fijalmy scratchbox just stopped working16:07
fijalwhen I try to run anything just compiled it says16:07
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fijalmmap: Permission denied16:07
fijalexact strace:16:08
fijal[pid 13086] mmap2(0x8000, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 4, 0) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)16:08
fijalwhere 4 is a fd of executable file16:08
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Stskeeps"Finally, libcalmodule.so will be dropped. "16:18
Stskeepsno shit16:18
Stskeepsknew that was coming16:19
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Robot101Stskeeps: what does/did it do?16:19
StskeepsRobot101: CAL is the area that nokia doesn't think people have the know how to get access to, with wlan mac, calibration data, and other stuff, and then keeps hiding away16:20
Robot101right, I know this because the flasher misidentified a prototype and destroyed the CAL block, resulting in both devices having WLAN mac address ending c0:ff:ee :P16:21
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* Stskeeps should really document his findings so this whole charade can stop16:23
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MangoFusionis that cal or hal? ;)16:26
Stskeepscal16:27
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aquatixanyone also using telepathy-haze and having a failing MSN connection?16:28
Robot101aquatix: I think it'll be the SSL certificate16:28
aquatixit even seems to segfault in the background (as i get coredumps)16:28
aquatixRobot101: ah16:28
aquatixRobot101: any idea why it worked before the latest diablo update?16:28
aquatixor rather, why it stopped since? :)16:28
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Robot101aquatix: verisign or Microsoft's certificate expired, and they issued a new one, i think16:29
aquatixah, right16:29
Robot101aquatix: so you need newer SSL certificates in order to connect16:29
Robot101wjt: aquatix is seeing core dumps, so maybe it's not the SSL thing at all?16:29
aquatixso, erm, how to install those?16:29
wjtaquatix: you're using a 0.1.x haze, right?16:29
aquatixwjt: let me check the exact version16:29
wjtolder hazes segv with probability 1/2 if there's an error connecting :P16:30
aquatix:)16:30
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aquatixfilled up my card quite quickly btw ;)16:30
Robot101aquatix: will you be around in like 1 hour? we're about to go for lunch. :)16:30
wjtaquatix: you could see which certificates are in Debian's latest ca-certificates package but not in maemo's16:30
aquatixi have account-plugin-haze version 0.1-116:30
Robot101wjt: maemo has libcst and magical certificate store with GUI16:31
aquatixRobot101: sure16:31
wjtoh does it really16:31
Robot101wjt: so you have to look in that gui16:31
wjtle sigh.16:31
aquatixRobot101: enjoy your lunch first :)16:31
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wjtaquatix: i'll be back in a bit16:31
aquatixwjt: and you too of course16:31
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wjt:)16:31
Robot101aquatix: it was a certificate added between ca-certificates 20070303-0.1 and 20080809 in Debian16:31
aquatixRobot101: ah :)16:32
wjti wonder if i could include it in the new haze packages i was working on yesterday16:32
Robot101and I think it was a verisign cert or something16:32
Robot101wjt: yeah that might make it work16:32
Robot101:P16:32
Robot101wjt: or make the postinst poke the cert into libcst or somethibng16:32
Robot101*something16:32
wjtRobot101: right16:32
* aquatix installed from the collabora haze repository btw16:32
wjtthat's what i was thinking16:32
Robot101a job for... after lunch man!16:32
asys3lcuk: just installed liqbase 005 - great work!!!16:32
aquatixRobot101, wjt: get to lunch dammit ;)16:32
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ctooleyI can't find the instructions for using the flasher utility for Linux.17:13
ctooleyI'm trying to flash my N800 with Diablo17:13
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aquatixhttp://fosswire.com/2007/12/30/n800-users-flash-to-os2008/ <- first hit on google17:15
johnx~flashing17:15
infobotmethinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware17:15
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* aquatix looks for the wiki17:15
aquatixah17:15
aquatix^ see that one ;)17:15
* johnx practices his quick-draw17:15
* lcuk draws a stickman17:16
ctooleyall thanks17:16
aquatix:)17:16
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whodatis there a way to get rid of the scrollbar in terminal17:31
* crashanddie wants to register isaid.no17:32
lcukregister said.no and then sell off subdomains17:35
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jaskayour.mom.should.have.said.no?17:38
aquatixghehehe17:38
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aquatixRobot101: back yet? :)17:39
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wjthe's still out, but i'm back17:40
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RST38hthe.answer.is.no\17:41
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sp3000hrm, .eh is reserved17:41
sp3000(no it's not an alias for .ca)17:41
RST38hwho is .eh?17:41
sp3000http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.eh17:41
RST38hah shit17:42
sp3000annoying.eh17:42
GAN800canadian.eh17:42
RST38hyou evil canadian haters17:43
RST38hcan't forget them getting n810s before the us, eh? ;)17:44
aquatixwjt: hey :)17:44
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aquatixwjt: so, erm, interested in wrapping up a new package for telepathy haze with new certs and such? :)17:54
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wjtaquatix: yes17:56
Stskeepslcuk: what's the essense of /sys/devices/platform/dsp/state17:56
Stskeeps?17:56
wjtaquatix: did you figure out what certs are needed?17:57
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aquatixwjt: hm, not yet17:57
wjtaquatix: hopefully i'll have time one of the next few evenings to finish the new packages17:57
wjtaquatix: so if you don't locate the cert i will do so :)17:57
aquatixdidn't Robot101 know which to use?17:57
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aquatixi can look at one of my debian machine17:57
aquatix+s17:57
qwerty12lcuk: btw, I get screen corruption in 0.0.4 too. It may be because I'm using rotation kernel or due to changes in xserver and kernel in 36-517:58
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aquatixwjt: hm, frankly, i don't have a clue :)18:04
wjtaquatix: well, i'll get on the case asap18:04
aquatixthe list is a bit too large too see which one is relevant for mickeysoft18:04
wjtsure18:04
aquatixsome verisign one i guess18:05
aquatixgreat :)18:05
aquatixno hurries18:05
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aquatixwjt: fyi, i'm going home now; will be back in a few hours18:25
wjtk18:25
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slonopotamusqemu is totally broken :(18:49
Stskeepsfor per-binary running? probably18:50
Stskeepsuse a sbrsh to a qemu instead18:50
RST38hhe cant18:50
slonopotamus:D18:50
slonopotamusyou knew ;)18:51
RST38hhrw says that sb1 qemu version is outdated18:51
RST38hand autobuilder uses sb118:52
slonopotamusi don't have any package with tests that successfully built in qemu18:52
slonopotamusthat's bad18:52
RST38hit is probably some really small detail18:53
RST38hfor me it was the open file dialog - made me switch to the real device18:53
slonopotamuslet's put some n8x0 as armel builders?18:54
RST38hor just make a realistic submission  procedure18:54
Stskeepsor just beagleboards. they'd fit in nicely together with the 770s running maemo.org18:54
slonopotamus:)18:55
Stskeeps(major improvement18:55
RST38hthat takes into account stuff that is broken18:55
RST38hok, off to the subway18:55
* Stskeeps goes compile maemo-gtk for debian to see how badly it breaks.18:55
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GAN800I talked with tekojo a bit about Beagles18:56
slonopotamuswhat's the point in having fast but incompatible builder?18:56
GAN800that'd be quite cool.18:56
Stskeepsmaemo on beagles or?18:57
GAN800For the builder18:58
Stskeepsah18:58
slonopotamusis it possible to use debian repos  directly from deblet?18:58
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: we use debian repos as main source19:00
Stskeepsthen we put stuff on top19:00
slonopotamusoh19:02
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slonopotamusthat's good. are you based in lenny?19:03
slonopotamuson19:03
Stskeepsit's up to what you select in installer19:03
Stskeepssid or lenny19:03
Stskeepsetch doesn't exist for armel properly so19:03
slonopotamushmm...19:03
slonopotamussid and lenny have different versions of  libc, right?19:04
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Stskeepsno clue, i guess lenny is based on current sid isn't it?19:04
Stskeepslenny is next stable release19:04
slonopotamusvisa versa19:05
slonopotamushmm...19:05
slonopotamusor maybe i'm wrong19:05
slonopotamusanyway. i don't think you can use same binaries in lenny _and_ in sid19:06
Stskeepswell, they obviously branched lenny at some point :P19:06
Stskeepsslonopotamus: libc is mostly backwards compatible though.19:06
StskeepsABI wise19:06
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slonopotamuslibdb's debiaan/rules has pretty variable VERY_BROKEN_ARCHES :) i love it19:08
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slonopotamushttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/fakeroot_1.9.5maemo1/i386.root.log.FAILED.txt19:08
slonopotamusis it ok?19:08
slonopotamusit built perfectly for armel19:09
slonopotamus(after disabling tests)19:09
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Khertan_n810Hi everyone !19:11
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Mouseyhi19:12
qwerty12Hello Khertan_n810, haven't seen you in a while :)19:12
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qwerty12I need to do your theme border hack again, the borders are fugly >.<19:12
Khertan_n810There is something that i don t understand with python thread what exactly gtk.gdk.threads_enter() do ?19:13
Khertan_n810hi qwerty12,  yep i was ill19:13
slonopotamusso. instead of building package for one environment, i need to build it for three: qemu, x86 and armel. all of them have different packages and tools. this drives me crazy.19:13
inzKhertan, locks the "gdk core"19:14
inzKhertan, you should only do anything gdk (and most of gtk too) if you have the lock19:14
* Stskeeps shakes his head19:15
Stskeepshow can gdk compiling fail with.. gdk include file error19:15
slonopotamuswhy do we sign upload packages if 'dpkg-source: warning: could not verify signature on ./fakeroot_1.9.5maemo1.dsc since gpg isn't installed'19:15
slonopotamus?19:15
Stskeepsslonopotamus: that's a neat question19:15
slonopotamus:) this world is broken somehow19:16
Khertan_n810because a tool need it19:16
Khertan_n810i create a process in which i get event and update the StoreList19:16
Khertan_n810each time user click on a button to see an other date i create an other process19:17
Khertan_n810it s result in a storelist with wrong result in it if previous process wasn t ended19:18
Khertan_n810so before creating process i create a new storelist19:18
Khertan_n810but it seems old process still insert value in the new one19:19
Khertan_n810is there some cache in treeview ?19:19
Khertan_n810queue isn t an option it ll really slow  navigation when switching month19:20
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Khertan_n810hum my problem doen st seems to interest someone19:22
Khertan_n810:)19:22
slonopotamus:)19:23
slonopotamusthat's normal19:23
Khertan_n810a simple way will be  to kill process but it s not possible in python19:24
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Khertan_n810ping19:34
Stskeepspong19:35
MouseyRST19:35
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* qwerty12 decides between aufs and unionfs 2.x19:38
* qwerty12 just realised how exciting that sounds19:39
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johnxqwerty12, having a choice?19:40
ccookeqwerty12: well, which one? :-)19:40
qwerty12johnx: deciding between aufs and unionfs :P. I compiled unionfs modules for the tablet last time so I'll go with aufs :)19:40
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qwerty12ccooke: aufs :). Their page says unionfs 2.x copies stuff from aufs so I go with the authentic stuff :)19:41
johnxqwerty12, you'll have to tell me how it goes. I'm somewhat curious :)19:41
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ccookeqwerty12: Thought so :-)19:42
ccooke(it looks the more vibrant project)19:42
Stskeepsqwerty12: what was the problem last time with unionfs?19:42
Stskeepskernel needed recompile too?19:42
qwerty12johnx: sure, I just got to wait for this diablo kernel to compile. I keep having a 37.5kb patch which I have to keep updating when new ssu is out :)19:42
qwerty12Stskeeps: yep, I had to make the kernel export an extra symbol19:43
johnxqwerty12, gotta push those changes upstream :P19:43
Stskeepsqwerty12: is that such a problem to push a unionfs+rotated+etc kernel?19:43
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qwerty12johnx: It's just patches mainly by others. I think the only thing I've done is remove the EAC: play enabled, rec disabled messages because they were so annoying to me19:44
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qwerty12Stskeeps: No idea :P19:44
johnxahaha19:44
Stskeepsjohnx: i'm going to try to compile maemo-gtk.19:44
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johnxStskeeps, hmm...19:45
cyrus__What is VDSO support? I am tyring to install the maemo SDK and it complains that I have to disable this19:45
Stskeepsjohnx: well it is gtk2.12 based so19:46
Stskeepsit's usually gtkmm people complain about afaik19:46
Stskeeps:P19:46
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l7hello19:49
l7anyone have opinions on who makes the best 16gb SDHC card?19:50
l7trascend vs patriot vs adata?19:50
GAN800Usually the answer is 'SanDisk'19:50
l7i've heard adata cards are a little flimsy compared to patriot19:50
l7hmm19:50
cyrus__VDSO support in the kernel, anyone know what this is?19:50
GAN800But they're also usually several orders of magnitude more expensive.19:50
Stskeepscyrus__: there's a notice about it regarding ubuntu i thin19:50
Stskeepsk19:50
l7GAN800: yeah the sandisk 16gb is 65 bucks on newegg19:51
GAN800I have Transcend cards and AData cards, I've never had an issue with either.19:51
l7their compeititors are 30-4019:51
johnxcyrus__, if you google VDSO maemo sdk you'll get a faster answer than here I think19:51
GAN800I know other people who have had nothing but issues with both.19:51
l7hmm19:51
l7why is adata priced as the cheapest one at 30?19:51
johnxl7, my adata cards are not holding up so well19:52
l7i have an adata and haven't had a problem with19:52
l7johnx: what is wrong with them?19:52
GAN800I'd just go with the newegg reviews for any particular card.19:52
johnxgetting I/O errors when using them with ext2/319:52
johnxunder normal use they're fine19:52
johnxnormal = digital camera or music storage, formatted vfat19:52
l7yeah, the newegg reviews for the adata transcend and patriot are all good, though there are a few dissenting voices19:53
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l7hmm19:53
l7vfat = fat32?19:54
johnxyeah19:54
l7i guess the n800 format function format SD media then19:55
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summatusmentishmm... is there still a market for n810s?19:56
l7i guess the n800 format function format SD media as vfat then19:56
l7bleh, editing19:56
johnxl7, correct. probably fat16 for <=2GB cards and fat32 for >=4GB cards19:57
l7any idea why the adata cards have issues with ext2/3?19:57
Stskeepssummatusmentis: probably19:58
l7i like the idea of using an SD card as a USB boot device19:59
johnxl7, I'm not sure if it has to do with the fs, or that they tend to have badblocks that only show up under heavier write usage19:59
johnxthe fs thing could be a red herring when in fact they might not have many spare blocks reserved to cover failing blocks19:59
johnx^conjecture^19:59
l7hmm there's some specs on the adata at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211245 it says it has the card has "Enhanced DSC function"20:00
StskeepsDie Soon as i Can?20:01
Stskeeps:P20:01
l7have you been able to use ext2/3 file systems on cards not made by adata?20:01
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johnxyeah, strangely the other offbrand I use "ALL-WAYS" seems to be fine20:01
johnxbut I've had bad luck with PQI as well as an older lexar card20:01
l7heh, which brand is it?20:01
l7i suppose i'll do some tests on my old adata 8gb card later20:02
johnxI've also been swapping to my cards, I'm sure that's no good for them either20:02
johnxnext time, maybe I'll try transcend20:03
smackpotatoany hints on installing minigpsd. my gps-utils-tools is to high version20:04
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Khertan_n810hi again20:05
Khertan_n810:)20:05
Khertan_n810still about threading in python ...20:05
Khertan_n810creating 10 thread seems to freeze all the maemo ui20:05
Khertan_n810is it normal ?20:05
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Khertan_n810as i think there are some priorities set for maemo ui20:07
Khertan_n810anyway i don t see anyway to set priority on python thread20:08
Khertan_n810hum ...20:09
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l7johnx: have you tried patriot for ext2/3 yet?20:12
johnxl7, I haven't. only cheap cards :D20:12
l7heh20:12
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johnxwell, even cheaper than patriot I should say20:12
l7patriot and trascend 16gbs are both about 4020:12
l7though i did see a deal last august where the patriot 16gb was $30 after rebates20:13
summatusmentisStskeeps: I ask because I'm not using mine enough, and I need a new iPod20:13
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johnxl7, prices depend on one's location :)20:13
l7heh20:13
l7fatwallet is a good source20:13
johnxsummatusmentis, it looks like they're selling for reasonable rates still20:14
l7though i guess if you are outside the US, it might be more expensive to pay for intl shipping on some deals20:14
johnxl7, exactly. shipping can quickly end up more expensive than the product shipped20:14
summatusmentisjohnx: cool20:14
Khertan_n810l7 > this is so high in france due to tax that it s still a good deal with high shipping price20:15
Khertan_n810tax here is higher than the product itself20:15
l7wow, VAT must be a killer20:15
Khertan_n810(tax for piracy on all storage product)20:16
l7though maybe when the euro was stronger vs the dollar, it might have been a sweeter deal20:16
l7ouch20:16
Khertan_n810(indexed for hard drive on Go capacity)20:16
lcukafternoone Khertan_n81020:16
l7ah, that's a really stupid tax20:16
Khertan_n810(but in Mo for sdcard as law haven t be updated)20:16
l7nice way to hinder innovation20:16
Khertan_n810hi lcuk20:16
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* lcuk tried threading in liqbase20:17
Khertan_n810l7 : france / innovation ... do you not see the problem ? :)20:17
lcuki took it out again almost instantly and found a better alternative20:17
Khertan_n810lol lcuk20:17
Khertan_n810i m threading mCalendar20:17
l7Khertan_n810: :)20:17
lcukgood luck with that one Khertan_n81020:18
lcukwhere do you need threads for though?20:18
qwerty12johnx: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/temp.png - Any ideas :D? I'm tempted to go with last option...20:18
Khertan_n810and the pain at this time is founding  way to prioritize thread20:18
l7Khertan_n810: do other EU countries have lower taxes as far as VAT and media piracy tax?20:18
Khertan_n810as python don t bother of priority in thread20:18
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Khertan_n810l7 : yep, don t say it but many here bought media in germany :)20:19
lcukKhertan_n810, what are you actually threading though, is it network connections or loading and rendering etc20:19
johnxqwerty12, well it is a higher number... What's the option about? branches of what?20:19
Khertan_n810networking was already threaded20:19
l7Khertan_n810: heh sweet20:19
Khertan_n810but no i m threading all the other thing20:20
Khertan_n810and separating ui and event management20:20
Khertan_n810into a framework20:20
qwerty12johnx: I think branches are unions in aufs - how much folders it will branch together maximum. I want to go with maximum but at the same time, I keep wondering why it's an option. Maybe allowing for more branches uses more memory?20:20
Khertan_n810to be able to access data from other applications easily20:20
lcukwhen i am loading sketches, i chose initially to load a sketch, render a frame, load a sketch, render frame.    when i put the loading into its own thread it killed everything20:21
Khertan_n810lol20:21
lcukso i reverted to the old way and it works better20:21
lcukand i can stop loading if i am busy :) just find something which works for you20:21
Khertan_n810yep ... i freeze the maemo ui when around ten thread are running20:21
johnxqwerty12, yeah, it would be strange to make it a compile time option unless it affected performance. or maybe it's a safety feature to prevent users from using it for some kind of DoS attack on your server?20:22
lcukit depends what the 10 threads are there for, it does sound like an awful lot20:22
Khertan_n81010 thread retrieving and parsing events in the sqlite database20:23
l7hmm, has anyone had problems with the plastic on their SD card breaking or cracking?20:23
l7http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=20-211-245&SortField=1&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=100&SelectedRating=-1&PurchaseMark=&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&Page=1&Keywords=plastic&=1&=10020:23
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lcukahhh, all trying to access the main database20:23
lcukall having their own concurrency and locking issues20:23
Khertan_n810yep but in a read only way20:23
lcuki dont think sqlite is thread safe either (I might be totally wrong)20:23
Khertan_n810so no concurrency20:23
lcuki remember something tohugh20:23
qwerty12johnx: Hmm, I never thought of the second idea. I can't seem to find anything in it's README. I'll go with 32767 and see if I notice any adverse effects later :)20:23
qwerty12s/it's/its20:24
Khertan_n810not thread safe20:24
Stskeepsl7: no, but people have had their sd slot gooey and wet20:24
Stskeeps:P20:24
Khertan_n810but openning and closing in a thread is sae20:24
lcukbut how do you know if one thread has not already opened it20:25
l7Stskeeps: that makes no sense :p20:25
Khertan_n810don t know ... but you can open several instance in read only20:25
qwerty12l7: Not an sd card, but my cousin once had a fake 1gb memory stick pro duo in his psp and the card melted. He was *pissed* :p20:26
Stskeepsl7: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2300120:26
lcukkhertan, you open and close the database lots?  owuld you be better with a single gatekeeper process running which talks directly to the database, the other actors in your scene all talk to this one main DB connection20:26
Stskeepsl7: (best thread ever)20:26
Khertan_n810lcuk ... yep but require a lot of coding20:27
lcukheh yeah i know, have you tried it totally without threading initially20:27
lcukl7, that thread is so good the only thing which could make it better is bacon20:28
Khertan_n810nope ... a beer could do it also ...20:28
Khertan_n810:)20:28
l7haha20:28
lcukonly if its washing the bacon down20:29
l7well i wonder if it's a blow capacitor or battery leak20:29
Stskeepsread it through for a surprise20:29
lcukno, he left it in a damp place20:29
l7still on page 220:29
lcukwe diagnosed it with him i believe20:29
l7condensation?20:29
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lcukthere was something (a banana i think) in a pocket and it went mouldy20:29
l7i mean how wet was it?20:29
l7oh gross20:30
Stskeepsa wet slot, how wet could it be? :P20:30
l7haha20:30
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lcukI just found a rotting banana in the bottom of the big pocket of my backpack where I keep the tablet. It must have been there for days, maybe a week. What a ****ing tool I am!20:30
l7well, it's good to know the n800 doesn't have too many capacitor or battery leaks20:30
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lcukit has bugs20:30
l7ugh20:30
lcukso that explains the moisture and the creatures20:30
johnxyeah, the n800 physical construction is terrifyingly solid20:30
lcukcompact and functional20:31
l7hmm, i'm glad i got my n800 for like $200 before they went out of stock20:32
l7the n810 is still priced at like $380? crazy20:32
johnxit was down to $300 for a while, but I think it's coming back up?20:33
lcukprobably the wimax thing20:34
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l7is wimax really worth it?20:34
lcukwifi internet with cellphone coverage20:34
johnxl7, do you live in a city with wimax?20:34
lcukdepending upon usage and location it can be amazing, no more need to tether to a phone, simply use it20:35
l7is there a list of cities that have wimax?20:35
johnxl7, not really20:35
lcukl7, just keep your eye out locally20:35
lcukive got it here in manchester i believe20:36
l7looks like pakistan has it20:36
johnxif yu live in a city with wimax i would say: definitely worth it. no wimax near you = not worth it20:36
lcuklol johnx, you speak like a highly paid consultant20:36
l7i don't really want to pay for wimax though :)20:37
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lcukthen dont get a wimax device :) some people value what it offers20:37
johnxl7, well, you answered your own question then :P20:37
l7hmm it looks like sprint is rolling out wimax in the us20:37
l7open access sounds nice though, $55 a month is rather pricey20:38
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* lcuk wants devices charged up20:39
lcukjohnx, both were flat as a pancake this morning, and both were charged last night20:39
johnxlcuk, charge. them. overnight. :P20:39
johnxyou sleep, they sleep, everyone wins20:39
lcukonly 1 charger lol, but i dont leave it charging overnight - the charger is near the computer and i dont trust the kids not to drop shit on em if i leave em out20:40
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johnxyeah, I end up pulling my charger and carrying it from computer to near bed when I want to read/surf in bed20:40
qwerty12lcuk: 1 charger? what's your secret?20:40
johnxwhere's my bedside stand with contactless charger? and my flying car?20:41
l7hmm, speaking of batteries, how do you guys get the n800 battery out?20:41
* qwerty12 used a knife at the start20:41
l7it seems to be jammed in there really tight20:41
johnxl7, at first I just stuck a credit card in there20:41
johnxnow I can just smack the other side of the device and it comes out20:41
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lcukjohnx you rebel20:42
l7eh, i'm rather afraid to smack the device20:42
Stskeepsl7: i use a flat screwdriver and pop at the bottom (away from the connector)20:42
Stskeeps:P20:42
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Stskeeps.. at first i used stylus but it didn't work that well20:43
l7i tried the screwdriver method near the connector20:43
l7that was a mistake20:43
Stskeepsyeah20:43
Stskeeps:P20:43
l7it caused a sort of spark the battery went dead20:43
lcukno1's screwing around with my device20:43
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l7but it recharged okay after a day20:43
l7very strange20:43
lcukon the 810 if you so much as touch the back panel it falls off and the battery follows it20:43
l7sounds like a good thing20:43
l7if the back panel stays on20:44
l7you know, nokia should include one of those ribbons like those  old AA battery powered devices20:44
l7to make it easier to pull the battery out20:44
johnxyou can make one with tape20:44
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l7yeah20:45
l7once you get the damned thing out ;)20:45
l7i was thinking of dental floss20:45
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johnxcredit card you don't need, side opposite from the contact20:45
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RST38hthen you would miss the opportunity to pop the battery out with your tongue20:45
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RST38hand that would be a shame. too easy.20:45
Stskeepsmm. oral love with your tablet.20:45
Stskeepswe've already established it's female :P20:45
* lcuk has an old nokia phone, the battery wont come out cos i superglued the fecker in there along with wires for my laser20:46
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lcukhmmm20:47
lcukhahah the laser still works - its had one charge and used to run out of its button batteries really quickly20:47
* lcuk blinds everyone in the room20:48
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RST38hGreetings.21:14
RST38hYoung sausage - Delicious Woman.21:14
RST38hSincerely, Kathy Alexander.21:14
RST38hWhat the hell are they advertizing again?21:15
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RST38hqwerty21:15
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qwerty12_N800RST38h21:15
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johnxqwerty12_N800, hey, did you know someone is going around called qwerty15 on the pandora forums?21:15
lardmanan imposter!21:16
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qwerty12_N800johnx, lol, i know a qwerty123 :D. + i have qwerty12.exe...21:16
qwerty12_N800hi lardman :)21:16
lardmanhey qwerty12_N80021:16
aquatixwjt: re21:17
aquatixand hi everybody else of course ;)21:17
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* qwerty12_N800 quite likes the give statusbar bluetooth thing21:18
qwerty12_N800hi aquatix21:18
aquatixhey qwerty12_N800 :)21:18
Sargun_Screenhe lo21:18
aquatixooh, there's a statusbar bluetooth thing?21:19
Sargun_Screenhan dw r21:19
Sargun_Screennmph21:19
lcuki guess they havent fixed handwriting recognition yet21:19
aquatixobviously21:20
Sargun_Screen7.21:20
* lcuk has an algo for that in liqbase21:20
Sargun_Screen?21:20
* lcuk will develop it further soon21:20
aquatixhandwriting recognition? neat21:20
Sargun_ScreenVe ry21:21
aquatix*g*21:21
Sargun_Screen lf it worKS21:22
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derfOnline gesture recognition, or offline character matching?21:22
aquatixor catting of /dev/urandom21:22
qwerty12_N800aquatix, http://www.matetelki.com/give/ - plays havoc with hildon-desktop though... it messes up text labels. i grabbed the source this morning and removed the locale code and now it works fine21:23
aquatixqwerty12_N800: interesting21:23
aquatixhm, i like the theme in those screenshots21:24
RST38hqwerty: extras? =)21:24
qwerty12_N800RST38h, it's not mine to shift :), plus it messes up hildon-desktop when you disable it :/21:25
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RST38humgh21:27
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lcukderf - was that directed at me21:28
qwerty12_N800RST38h, btw, why upload emutools in non-free when you release source? :)21:28
RST38hqwerty: you should ask slonopotamus about that21:29
qwerty12_N800qemu problems? :/21:29
RST38hbesides, they are not GPLed so not free in Richard Stallman definition :)21:29
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: that's an interesting app21:29
RST38hqwerty: yep21:29
Stskeepsten bucks the guy ends up hired by nokia and we never see a open version again ;)21:30
derflcuk: Yes.21:30
qwerty12_N800RST38h, ahh :). it was more out of curiosity that i asked21:30
lcukjust stroke recognition at present, but it will grow with time21:30
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, lol, if u wanna try it, grab this deb: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=233128#post23312821:31
derfSo I assume you mean the former, then.21:31
lcukim hoping to use the collection of sketches built in liqbase as customised personal dictionary :)21:31
RST38hSts: Why do you need an open version if you do not intend to modify it?21:31
lcukyeah21:31
derfI do research in this field also, you see.21:32
StskeepsRST38h: for when developer gets run over by a bus and software underneath/API changes?21:32
RST38hts: but you are till not modifying the code!21:32
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, you seem to have a fantasy of people getting run over by buses :p21:33
lardmanderf: I've just checked out your qrcode, what's the status?21:33
Stskeeps*chant* information should be free! .. or something, really - i don't have a proper view on properitary vs open honestly21:33
derflardman: It should build and run and decode things.21:33
lardmancool :)21:33
johnxqwerty12_N800, standard IT thing. always consider the "run over by bus scenario"21:33
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: yeah, like, when nokia gets run over by a bus21:33
derfThe binarization part needs some work (it is slow and tends to over-thin dark regions).21:34
Sargun_Screennokia getting run over by a bus would be bad21:34
lardmanderf: does it run from the reader.c program? From a png?21:34
derflardman: Yes.21:34
derfThere should be a Makefile in the unix directory.21:35
qwerty12_N800johnx, I see :), never come across it before. btw, i have an aufs.ko sitting on my computer. i'll upload it tommorow :)21:35
lardmanderf: have you implemented the code to accept non-optimally aligned images?21:35
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, lol21:35
derfAligned?21:35
lardmanwell the corners not being at right angles, etc.21:35
derfYes... that would be most of the 4000 lines in qrdec.c.21:36
lcukheh, cool derf :) in liqbase after every stroke is drawn it outputs the identified stroke code, its only normalized stroke laid over a simple grid but it appears to give consistent results for now21:36
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derflcuk: Ultimately you want to use a Hidden Markov Model.21:36
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: sounds good, "Would you like to use your SD as extended space for your Maemo"21:36
lardmanderf: :) ok, just asking as I thought I'd borrow code to align images for the pdf417 code21:36
derfBecause you're doing things online, you have a well-defined path for the 1-D optimization of an HMM to follow.21:36
derflardman: It's very dependent on the finder patterns and other details of the QR code.21:37
lardmanderf: ok21:37
lcukderf, thanks for the tip :) then i dive back into it and am scratchin my head about it ill look more :)21:37
derfYou can certainly pull out the code that actually does the projections, and there's some other geometry stuff that might be reusable.21:37
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, the nice thing is that i don't need to run a modified kernel with it. they do have a speed patch for aufs that is used with a patched kernel that can raise performance though21:38
derfBut the part that actually estimates the transforms relies on being able to identify those patterns.21:38
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derfI assume for PDF417 you'd be trying to identify the quiet zone/start pattern and fit lines to the edges of the pattern.21:40
lardmanbasically yes that's my thought21:41
derfNot too difficult, but a lot harder to pick out the pattern with a lot of background clutter.21:42
lardmanI thought a number of horizontal lines to establish if the pattern exists, then to establish the positioning of the ends, then work up those to the tops and work out the top & bottom21:42
derfYeah, certainly a lot easier than the datamatrix one.21:44
derfI would want to handle a pattern in general position, not just approximately horizontal, but that's just me.21:44
lardmanthe wonders of 1.5D ;)21:44
lardmanyou mean for the initial search?21:45
derfIt's not that datamatrix is 2D, it's that it has no equivalent for the start codes/finder patterns that you can search for in the image.21:45
derflardman: Yes.21:45
lardmanderf: Ideally one would perform arbitrary searches for the start bars, however quick is better than perfect, the user can just make sure he aligns it approximately21:46
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derfWell, the ratios between segment lengths in the start codes should be somewhat insensitive to rotation.21:47
derfYou just need to consider more than horizontal lines by themselves.21:47
derfqrdec starts with just horizontal+vertical, though I think it would be more robust with diagonal as well.21:48
lardmanto the first point, exactly; the second - yes, but horizontal lines will establish the gradient of the end bars from which to work out the angle, etc.21:48
lardmanah I see21:48
lardmanyes, certainly worth adding in as it shouldn't add much more overhead (he says) ;)21:48
derflardman: Right... you'd probably be interested in the line fitting code in qrdec.21:49
lardmancool, will take a look21:49
derfParticularly the ransac bit, though you'll probably have to adapt that a bit, as its dependent on some internal data structures for convenience.21:49
derfAnd a lot of the stuff from the initial finder pattern search should carry over for your start code search, though I don't know if it's worth making fully general search code, or just keeping two similar but distinct routines.21:50
lardmanprobably worth keeping them separate, the extra code will be small and at least they can then be optimised for a given barcode type if needed21:51
derfRight. That's only a hundred lines or so, anyway.21:51
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pupnik810hi!22:07
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pupnik810:)22:07
qwerty12_N800hi pupnik81022:07
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pupnik810huhu!22:09
pupnik810who here was from amsterdam?22:09
solmumahaevening pupnik81022:10
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pupnik810hi!22:11
solmumahawhat are you doing there?22:11
crashanddie_chatting, I guess22:11
solmumahathat much i understood22:12
pupnik810hehe22:12
pupnik810bike tour22:12
pupnik810beautiful day22:12
pupnik810hey i gotta dl maps for default navi prog22:13
pupnik810where i do this?22:13
zapInteresting, I can see a driver called tlv320aic33, and it's built into the kernel22:13
zapbut the mixer controls present inside it aren't visible via ALSA22:13
zapanybody knows why?22:13
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qwerty12_N800zap, how are you checking from alsa? i think i know this one22:15
zaphowever, alsa sees a card called "OMAP24xx EAC with codec TLV320AIC33" but it has neither pcm or ctl devices on it22:15
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zapqwerty12_N800: sound/arm/omap/tlv320aic33.c22:15
zakkmJust curious, does maemo use ALSA for volume?22:16
zapmaemo uses userland ALSA plugins22:16
zapwhich work through /dev/dsp/pcm322:17
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zapthe array aic33_controls has a lot of interesting mixer controls... never seen 'em in alsamixer...22:17
zakkmI was on this channel a few days ago and someone asked to change volume and alsamixer didnt work for them, so i was wondering if ALSA was really used.22:18
zakkmamixer didn't work either.22:18
qwerty12_N800zap, k, i think i got it. n800 and n810 have a different touchscreen and TLV320AIC33 is in the n800 but not in n81022:19
zapalsamixer -Ddefault will show a single 'master volume' slider22:19
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zakkmalsamixer didnt exist for the person.22:19
zapqwerty12_N800: seriously? Why the driver works on 810 then?22:19
zakkmAnyone know where i might be able to find a cheap used N800 for $150-170 ?22:20
zapzakkm: that does not matter, the 'default' ALSA device should be used, not hw:022:20
zakkmToronto, Canada22:20
zapebay?22:20
zakkmbesides ebay22:20
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zakkmstore/  anyone selling?22:20
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zakkmzap: no like alsamixer didnt exist in /usr/bin ...22:20
zakkm"command not found" or w.e it says22:21
zapqwerty12_N800: arch/arm/mach-omap2/n800-audio.c22:21
qwerty12_N800zap, i don't remember exactly but i remember seeing differences when i was porting n810 android touchscreen fix to n80022:21
zapqwerty12_N800: but no n810-audio.c, so I presume audio is the same22:21
qwerty12_N800zap, let me find the thread...22:22
qwerty12_N800zap, http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:wC3yU4zwHUEJ:www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D21719%26page%3D5+TLV320AIC33+qwerty12&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk22:23
zaphmm pretty neat, that mixer shot shows all those hidden controls22:24
zapI wonder why alsamixer does not see them...22:24
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zaphmm, TSC2301 mixer is implemented in drivers/spi/tsc2301-mixer.c22:28
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zapboard-n800-audio covers both TSC2301 and TLV320AIC33 chips...22:30
* moontiger is getting *really* bored with the crappy response times of maemo.org22:30
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Stskeepsmoontiger: i've thought about making a service that brings up google cache instead from *.maemo.org :P22:31
aalonsoHi, do you now an alternative site to download the latest Diablo bin image...22:33
Stskeepsaalonso: if you got a windows machine the windows flasher gets it from somewhere else22:34
aalonsofrom nokia site the image download every time stops at 64%22:34
moontigerStskeeps, hahaha that would be so much faster22:34
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moontigerseriously tho ... it doesnt inspire much when a company like nokia cant even get a damn website working properly22:34
aalonsoIm on a debian based machine22:35
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moontigeraalonso, what image you trying to get?22:35
aalonsolatest diablo release 4.2008.23-1422:35
moontigeri prolly have it somewhere if you would like me to host it somewhere?22:36
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aalonsothat would be great since I have a broken n810 :( that I need to re-flash22:37
moontigergive me 5 mins and i'll see what i can do ;)22:37
aalonsothanks...22:37
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zakkmcant you DCC send over irc?22:38
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moontigerlet me see if i can find it22:38
zakkmwhats the difference between diablo and chinook ?22:38
kpeldiablo is a newer release22:38
zakkmis it new UI , builtin software or anything or is it just the seamless updater?22:39
kpeliirc chinook was less polished22:39
kpel(and less finger friendly)22:41
zakkmAlso, sorry lol, is there any way to do Tablet to PC .. videochat besides aMSN and gizmo ?22:41
kpelskype22:41
kpelwell no, i tell a lie22:42
kpellast time i tried skype video was not supported for my n80022:42
pupnik810where do i ger benelux maps for navi?22:42
pupnik810running out of batt22:42
pupnik810s/ger/get22:42
zakkmI was told you couldnt in skype the other day?22:42
zakkmi wouldnt mind using a older version of skype though?22:42
kpelzakkm: voice works. barely. i tried skype witha friend who had an eee pc. the tablet was struggling to cope with the load22:43
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zakkmMy nokia 770 did voice chat in google talk thingy just fine, never tried skype though22:44
zakkmlike many months ago22:44
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zakkm... Moontiger .. it wasnt me who wanted22:44
moontiger_crap22:44
moontiger_sorry22:44
zakkmaalonso <-- wanted22:44
moontiger_who was it22:44
moontiger_oooops22:44
moontiger_:)22:44
zakkmits okay, i'm just saying.22:45
zakkmI was just suggesting that DCC might be better than uploading/ downloading22:45
moontiger_dunno depends on the upload spped i get thru my comcastic link22:46
moontiger_aalonso, *tap tap tap*22:46
kpelthee problem is that dcc is a pain to support out-of-the-box if you are a router manufacturer22:46
moontiger_if it sucks i can host on one of my servers22:46
zakkmDoes Canola work well in diablo on n800?22:46
zakkmgoing through forum it looks like it doesnt work22:46
aalonso??22:47
Stskeepsrm_you: ta22:47
moontiger_dcc22:47
moontiger_diablo image22:47
kpeli tried to use it, it was slow, i gave up months ago22:47
moontiger_accept :)22:47
aalonsohow do I do it22:47
moontiger_ummm click ok when it prompts you?22:47
zakkmaalonso: what irc client?22:48
aalonsoI see the file transfer 0%22:48
aalonsoX-chat22:48
zakkmdcc not working? ;p22:49
moontiger_aalonso, im uploading it to my server ... give it a few mins and i'll give you the link ;)22:49
zakkmmoontiger_: personal server or remote?22:49
moontiger_its hosted out there on the intertubes ;)22:50
aalonsoi just set ddc auto accept... thanks22:50
zakkmyeah but is it in your house or something?22:50
zakkmhome connection?22:50
moontiger_no its a commercial hosted server22:50
zakkmoh thats cool :)22:50
moontiger_big fat pipe22:50
moontiger_upload will take 8 mins more22:50
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moontiger_zakkm, i do web stuff for a living mostly so i know what you were getting at22:51
zakkmreally? cool.22:51
moontiger_yah ... php / mysql / apache ... all that good stuff ... and i teach it part time22:52
zakkmtutoring?22:52
moontiger_theres a college in downtown sf that i teach at22:52
zakkmcool :)22:52
zakkmi gave up on programming of all sorts.22:53
moontiger_how come?22:53
zakkmdont have the math skills.22:53
moontigerdoesnt always need math skills22:53
zakkmmysql is okay cause it doesnt confuse you too much22:53
zakkmits more basic in a sense.22:53
moontigermost people have trouble with databases22:53
zakkmbut my school teaches like JAVA and stuff..22:53
zakkmhighschool22:53
moontigerdesigning them and implementing indexes and good queries22:53
moontigeryou're at high school?22:54
zakkmyeah 12th grade.22:54
moontigerholy crap!22:54
zakkmsurprised?22:54
* moontiger feels old22:54
zakkmIt's okay, i do it to alot of people.22:54
moontigerhehe22:54
moontigerwhats 12th grade? im english so i dont get the grade stuff22:55
zakkmcomputer hobbyist.. but dont like programming/ no good at it.22:55
zakkmuhh22:55
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zakkmend of sixth form.22:55
zakkmlast year of sixth form . i believe22:55
moontigeri mean how old are you in 12th grade22:55
click170Is there a way to tell which repository a package upgrade is from?22:55
zakkmyear 13.. i know it doesnt go up that high but thats how many years22:55
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zakkm17/18/1922:55
moontigerahhhhhhhhh so not like 12 or something22:56
zakkmoh pfft22:56
zakkmof course not22:56
* moontiger feels slightly less old now22:56
zakkmim 18 in march.22:56
moontigerheh cool22:56
moontigerwhat a great fukd up world you are coming into22:56
zakkmhaha.22:56
Stskeepsthe challenge is knowing how bad it is, before you turn 18, so you can prepare :P22:56
zakkmA friend of mine says to skip college, life wont last that long.22:56
zakkmlol22:57
moontigerthat might not be so leftfield22:57
moontigerbut i wouldnt skip college22:57
moontigerits great fun22:57
moontiger:)22:57
zakkmno, with the whole global warming, financial state of many countries currently..22:57
zakkmetc etc22:57
moontigeryah i hear you22:57
* Stskeeps definately prefers uni over highschool22:57
moontigerim leaving here soon ... heading back to europe and africa22:57
kpeluni ftw22:58
zakkmmoontiger: where in the uk ?22:58
moontigerright now im in san francisco22:58
pupnik810hehe mises.org called the crisis122:58
moontigernot uk22:58
zakkmuni, too expensive22:58
zakkmah, said your english? so i figured uk22:58
Stskeepsuni, free tution in this country :>22:58
Stskeepshigh taxes and student support, woop. :P22:58
zakkm;o what country22:58
moontigeri was born in london and lived there for a while so im english22:58
Stskeeps.dk22:58
kpelzakkm: depends where you live. some countries offer free education22:58
zakkmyeah, damn countries22:59
moontigeri travel ... thats my thing22:59
zakkmmost of them are third-world too.. i don't get it.22:59
moontigerlaptop + internet connection = happy moontiger22:59
zakkmmoontiger: ever been to toronto?22:59
zakkmcanada that is.22:59
click170Canada is not third world, and they offer free education :P22:59
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zakkmno they dont?22:59
moontigerzakkm, i know where it is but no i havent been there22:59
zakkmnot uni / college level.22:59
click170Ah, nm22:59
zakkmI live in Toronto, Canada22:59
click170Vancouver22:59
moontigergets cold there22:59
click170We should start a petition for free uni and college23:00
moontigeri will be going to vancouver next year23:00
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zakkmI KNOW its not free.. thats why im worrying about next year when im supposed to start college/uni23:00
moontigeri spend a lot of time in seattle too23:00
zakkmclick170: good luck with that :)23:00
kpelGreece is not third world either and uni is free23:00
moontigerbrb need to make a cup of tea23:00
zakkmNah well, Ontario does you money for college/uni .. ( nondebt. free money )23:01
click170I'm moving to Greece now that I know they have free uni23:01
zakkmso it helps.. but its no where near fully paid23:01
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zakkmclick170: the degree you get wont matter though :)23:01
zakkmif you move :P23:01
kpelzakkm: depends.23:01
zakkmi just mean you cant pick a country cause it has free uni :)23:01
zakkmjust go there for uni cause its free.23:01
click170Am I supposed to look for free uni and free healthcare?23:02
click170lol23:02
zakkmdoes any country do both?23:02
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Stskeeps.dk :P atleast mostly23:02
Stskeepsdental not covered23:02
zakkm.dk = ?23:02
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Stskeepsdenmark23:02
zakkmah, cool.23:02
moontigerzakkm, uk does23:02
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zakkmuk doesnt have free uni ? does it?23:02
click170uk has free schooling?23:02
Stskeepsflag usually seen burnt by muslims23:02
moontigerafaik23:02
kpelalso greece, france, and of course cuba23:02
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kpelreally good doctors there23:03
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zakkmI know theres free health care ( family frm england.. ) but yeah im not that sure uni is free..23:03
moontigeraalonso, a couple minutes more then i give u the link ;)23:03
zakkmFrance sucks to live. :P23:03
kpelzakkm: why?23:03
zakkmI'm told its a terrible place to live.23:03
aalonsomoontiger: thanks23:03
zakkmgood for visiting.. terrible for living23:03
kpelwere you told about france or about paris?23:03
zakkmFrance.23:04
RST38hfree university and free healthcare? Cuba. Or North Korea.23:04
kpelthe south of france(blue coast) is quite nice.23:04
click170I wouldn't say France sucks to live there unless you've travelled there23:04
zakkmA country you can't visit .. doesn't count. lol23:04
click170Theres a lot of negative hype that I think is unjustified23:04
zakkmnorth korea -.-23:05
moontiger_aalonso, you ready?23:05
zakkmThe Lost City of Atlantis :O23:05
aalonsoyep23:05
zakkmJust curious, Is ITT funded somehow?23:06
lcukcould I ask people to install the latest liqbase .deb and see whether they encounter graphical glitches, it appears a few people are getting them on first run, but then not able to reproduce.  http://liqbase.net/23:06
moontiger_http://gagfoot.com/RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PRCOMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin23:06
moontiger_i think i got that right23:06
moontiger_save as and you're good to go23:06
zakkmLcuk: unforunately dont have a tablet at the moment ( looking to buy another ) so i can't.23:06
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moontiger_http://gagfoot.com/RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin23:07
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, i'll test, i was getting purple glitches :)23:07
Stskeepszakkm: well they have ads so23:07
moontiger_fuk i missed an underscore sorry23:07
Stskeepszakkm: it must run around somehow23:07
lcuklol zakkm, you still looking :P23:07
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lcukqwerty12_N800, i can has glitches as well :D were they reproducable - ie can you start the app and get them again now?23:07
moontiger_aalonso, 2nd link yes?23:08
aalonsomoontiger: I start downloading23:08
moontiger_awesome23:08
moontiger_:)23:08
qwerty12_N800lcuk, lol, i still have 0.0.4 if you want me to test with that or should i get 0.0.6 1st?23:08
lcuktry the one you have - ive not changed anything related to glitches23:08
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zakkmsorry, left23:09
lcukbecause its not reproducable by even the people that report them beyond first run its a bit odd23:09
zakkmOf course im still looking.. i emailed this guy off craigslist, wanted $17023:09
* moontiger sips tea23:09
zakkmi'm like ill buy it.. person said sold out -.-23:09
zakkm(yesterday)23:09
lcukim starting to think its something like the "updating" list thing from application manager - or something along those lines23:09
Stskeepsprices may drop now n810w is out though :P23:10
moontigerzakkm, what u trying to buy?23:10
zakkmlcuk: if it doesnt reproduce, does it relaly matter?23:10
zakkmmoontiger: N80023:10
moontigerfrom craigslist?23:10
zakkmused.23:10
lcukzakkm, yeah it does actually23:10
zakkmyes23:10
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lcuki wanna know how many people are effected23:10
zakkmmoontiger: im in toronto,on .. theres many postings23:10
moontigercraigslist is full of flakes23:10
lcukit upsets the karma - liqbase is smooth and cool and it fecks up for people and ruins their experience23:10
zakkmI use craigslist all the time.23:10
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, can't reproduce it :/23:11
zakkmMy Headphones - $10 .. nice big headphones.. works wonders23:11
moontigeri do too but the flakes are getting worse and *really* annoying23:11
lcukheh, didnt think so23:11
zakkmwhat is liqbase ?23:11
lcukwould you grab the latest 0.0.6 from liqbase.net and see23:11
lcukzakkm, look on liqbase.net for a youtube vid23:11
zakkmnever heard of liqbase package23:11
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zakkmhaha its you?23:11
lcukthats cos its not been packaged before about 2 weeks ago23:11
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zakkmlcukmaemo <-- youtube = you?23:12
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lcukyes23:12
zakkmbritish accent?23:12
lcuksince i am lcuk and i am a part of maemo..23:12
moontigerhehe23:12
lcuknorthern accent more lik23:12
zakkmso its for document reading?23:13
lcukno, its for a lot of things :)23:14
lcukits my short term meory23:14
lcukand longer term meory - and designer and plaything23:14
zakkmhah thats so cool23:14
lcukand i want to build a full designable ui one day :)23:14
zakkmWould it work on n800 well ?23:14
moontigeraalonso, you getting it ok?23:14
lcukwell you might have glitches on first run, but yeah23:14
zakkmhaha i dont mind.23:15
zakkmI'm a nightly kind of person.23:15
aalonsomoontiger, yes I about to re-flash23:15
zakkmI'm used to many bugs23:15
* lcuk gets sick of drawing the screens he then has to code - so im gonna make them live23:15
moontigerok cool23:15
lcukmoontiger, would you test it please :$23:15
moontigerinteresting idea lcuk23:15
moontigeri did ... is there a new version?23:15
lcukdid you encounter glitches?23:15
moontigernot that i noticed no ... flawless afaik23:16
lcukerrr not really tonnes of new stuff, ive been doing mainly background work and seeing if i can get some sort of multitouch thing working23:16
moontigerahhhhhhhhhh i can try the new version for sure23:16
lcukthe new stuff will come back once ive finished ironing out this bug and actually start work again23:16
zakkmooo will a flashdrive work on the nokia ?23:16
moontigerdont you need hardware support for multi-touch?23:16
lcukyes if its under 100ma - or if you use a powered hub23:16
pupnik810i am idiot -- in wayfinder click 'maps' :)  benelux installed23:16
zakkmsick :P23:17
lcukmoontiger, see for yourself23:17
* moontiger smiles23:17
zakkmI dont know the n800 but is all i need is the n800 and the flashdrive.. or is some small connector required?23:17
lcukhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233054&postcount=14423:17
zakkmif its under 100ma that is23:17
Stskeepszakkm: you're off better with a sd often23:17
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lcukzakkm, if you have decided to get 800 just use normal cards23:17
zakkmyes but i know many ppl in school with flash drives because of the work itself.23:17
zakkmSo for me being able to put it in.. and view documents/ videos on the nokia would be nice23:18
Stskeepslcuk: instant graphical glitchh23:18
lcukmoontiger, the link i just posted explains my thinking about multitouch23:18
zakkmyes i would use SD for myself, but for other people i mean.23:18
pupnik810hi lcuk!23:18
lcukhiya pupnik810 ! :D hows it hanging23:18
lcukStskeeps, oh no, come out and go back in23:18
Stskeepslcuk: happens already in username :P23:18
* lcuk is formulating a plan: start liqbase and make it restart itself ;)23:18
zakkmThis might sound weird, but how well does GIMP perform on n800 ?23:18
Stskeepslcuk: didn't use liqbase on maemo before23:19
lcukahhh what did you try it on23:19
zakkmlcuk: can't you just remove all the temp files.. and make it reproduce the glitch?23:19
Stskeepslcuk: works after restart23:19
Stskeepsdeblet initially23:19
Stskeepsthen maemo now23:19
zakkmso its like starting it for first time?23:19
Stskeepswhere first install messed up23:19
lcukzakkm i just tried that multiple times23:19
zakkmoh23:19
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lcukzakkm, i have reproduced this once on my own device on firstrun23:19
lcuki have had graphical glitches very very occasionally a long time ago23:20
lcukbut i think those were different to this23:20
Stskeepslcuk: mine was firstrun as well23:20
lcukStskeeps, so is it fine now/23:20
aalonsomy n810 is working again :)23:20
zakkmlcuk: did you create liqbase or are you porting it?23:21
lcuk100% native on the device (even compiling on it)23:21
Stskeepslcuk: yeah23:21
lcukhmmm then23:21
zakkmah, wish i could afford a n81023:22
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lcukzakkm, actually i tell a lie, i started in vmware scratchbox but got annoyed, so i installed gcc on device and have used it ever since23:22
zakkmhaha23:22
lcuki dont code most of the time with it lol - i use ssh23:22
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zakkmwhat is it coded in?23:22
lcukthough the graffiti wall is a child of the dev centre at linuxtag :)23:22
lcukc23:22
zakkmi know this sounds really weird and probably very stupid but you know like clustering right? to give instructions to another PC..23:24
Stskeepslcuk: your multitouch stuff might actually work23:24
zakkmi think its called clustering23:24
zakkmin mac its xgrid ?23:24
zakkmWould that technically work on the N800?23:25
lcukshould do yeah23:26
lcukStskeeps, :) it works well enough as proof of concept23:26
moontigerzakkm, if you wrote a client that took work loads and shared them out it would work for sure23:26
zakkmlike use an pc/server.. to make your n800 faster.23:26
moontigerlcuk, can u actually detect multiple touches o the screen?23:27
moontigeri didnt think the hardware reported them23:27
Stskeepsit's a neat approximation23:27
Stskeepslcuk: what kind of algo do you use for it?23:28
lcukno moontiger, i fake it - if you press and hold with your thumb, then touch with your finger the cursor jumps to centre midpoint between thumb and finger. oh, just read the notes i put a minute ago23:28
lcukStskeeps, just a simple one, but its been rolling around my head for a while23:28
moontigeri did read them23:29
pupnik810hahaha wayfinder doesnt check free space when sling map23:29
pupnik810dling23:29
pupnik810owch23:29
lcukpupnik810, least of troubles, if you are on 810 and it fills the mmc2 then you are screwed unless you have repaired it previously23:29
moontigerlcuk, so thats a "glitch" in the hardware that you're taking advantage of?23:29
Stskeepslcuk: why do i think of on screen keyboard?23:29
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Stskeepshold down shift, press other buttons23:29
lcukno, the hardware simply returns the average23:29
moontigerand the average in this case is the mid-point23:30
lcukif you know there is a single fixed point you can then take the average into account and use your other finger23:30
pupnik810lcuk, oooops!23:30
moontigerwow thats a neat trick!!23:30
lcukyes it is - pupnik810 remember the multitouch thing i tried to explain at linuxtag23:30
lcukwell ^^^ i implemented it and it seems to work ;023:31
pupnik810coolll23:31
Stskeepslcuk: i think you might be able to expand on this, maybe filter probabilities of thumb moving and stuff :P23:31
zakkmyou all went to linuxtag?23:31
qwerty12_N800lcuk, you've made darius jack happy23:31
lcukyes, and sts i need to make sure i dont try to JUMP! when i have already detected a single moving finger23:31
moontigerStskeeps, or maybe note the original (thumb) position and lock it and only look for the other touch changing?23:31
Stskeepsperhaps23:32
lcukqwerty12_N800, feck off lol - i tried to explain these things to him but he didnt listen23:32
Stskeepsthere's definately some algorithmic possibilities23:32
qwerty12_N800lcuk, lol :p23:32
Stskeepslcuk: better make a patent ;P23:32
lcukmoontiger, it does that, once it detects the cursor has jumped beyond a certain radius, it moves into flickermode - this has thumb and finger positions and tries to keep them working23:32
lcuksod the patent :) i just want some security23:32
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, no software patents in europe!!!23:33
qwerty12_N800oops, stskeeps23:33
lcukits open source and i want all this to be used23:33
qwerty12_N800:p23:33
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: if it has to do with hardware interfacing..23:33
derfqwerty12_N800: You don't actually believe that fantasy, do you?23:33
lcukthe more this device is used and the more we can do with it the better it will become23:33
lcukthis is why im so flucked off with the glitches23:33
Stskeepslcuk: there's possibilities for maybe using a bayesian model for calculating probabilities this value is useful23:33
qwerty12_N800derf, nope, just felt like saying it :p23:33
lcukStskeeps, keep thinking please :) i have only just started an idea23:34
lcukderf! you would be an ideal person to examine what ive started23:34
lcukwould you install liqbase and try to be amazed at the multitouch thing23:34
lcuksee here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233054&postcount=14423:35
derfI would if my tablet was not plugged into a wall 25 miles away.23:35
lcukand liqbase.net for the package :)23:35
lcukdamn technicalities!23:35
lcuk(and if people like what im doing, please thank me up in the forum ;) im a bit of a karma whore)23:36
qwerty12_N800lol23:36
* qwerty12_N800 points @ Stskeeps :p23:36
GAN800lcuk iz newb whore.23:36
lcukof course gan :D23:37
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: it's mainly because that's how i work. if people appreciate my work, i know which directions to go in and it strokes my ego enough to keep working on it23:37
lcukim feelin a bit down about the glitches and need cheerin up ;)23:37
Stskeepselse i get bored23:37
GAN800I could give you about 200 of mine and still be out in fron of Benson.23:37
lcuklol23:37
Stskeepslcuk: my screen protector is full of fingerprints now :P23:37
lcuklook theres the proper karma whore - knowing whos behind him in the race ;)23:38
* moontiger goes to install the latest23:38
lcukawwww Stskeeps i use liqbase so much ive knackered the screen - it doesnt work with fingers any more23:38
* GAN800 iz pro23:38
lcukN2 has to be used for that testing23:38
pupnik810so heh23:38
pupnik810lcuk eager for faster tablet now?23:39
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GAN800I'm so happy soft poweroff is finally working again.23:39
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, i know, i'm joking. i like being thanked, it makes me feel happy that someone appricated something i done. plus, i'm not a prick when it comes to pressing the thanks button :)23:39
lcukpupnik810, not really, it does what i want as fast as i want it - the only thing i see changing when i get the new one is being able to code in c++23:39
pupnik810best nickname seen in  weeks - dholbert :)23:39
pupnik810hmm  re-write?23:39
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lcukexpansion - i get frustrated with all the boilerplate i need for basic operations (mainly string handling)23:40
pupnik810mhm23:40
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moontigerlcuk how do i play with the multi-touch?23:40
lcukso its either write my own compiler (not the first time..) or wait until i get c++ working fast enough23:40
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lcukoptions/multitouch test23:41
lcukits really nothing special, just indicating what its detected23:41
GAN800By the way, pupnik, who do you want me to convince to package up all of your awesome for Extras?23:41
moontigerholy crap thats cool :)23:41
Stskeepslcuk: maybe using dsp / modelling multitouch as a optimization problem?23:41
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moontigeris memo 5 going to support c++ natively?23:42
moontigermaemo 5 too23:42
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Stskeepsmaemo already supports c++? :P23:42
pupnik810GAN800, dunno - ill push out a new batch of releases now23:42
moontigeryah i know it does but with a huge assed bunch of libs23:42
lcukStskeeps, theres plenty of grunt in the cpu to model it correctly, all i am doing is selecting a breakpoint for the stroke - the first N points are the starting thumb, then everything after is halfway to the finger, it is then filtered23:42
Stskeepstrue23:42
lcukStskeeps, yeah it does, its just slow to compile23:43
Stskeepslcuk: just putting ideas out there23:43
lcukits beyond my frustration threshhold23:43
Stskeepsconsider distcc'ing to a desktop with same gcc version, from codesourcery?23:43
moontigeri think im going to have to go out to the park for a bit ... the weather here is gorgeous and sunny and warm :)23:43
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lcukStskeeps, i do main coding from a desktop already, but its windows - ive got vmware available to do the grunt but i hate actually editing within vmware23:44
Stskeepsah23:44
lcukso i edit using komodo edit directly in windows and winscp for file transfer23:44
moontigerlcuk, why dont you install linux?23:44
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lcukpartly cos its slow23:44
moontigererrrrrrrrrrr linux is slow?23:44
lcukpartly because things dont quite work as i want them to23:45
Stskeepsbtw, lcuk: any idea what echo 2 > /sys/devices/platform/dsp/state does?23:45
Stskeeps(saw multimediad do it23:45
lcukyes moontiger ive got a VERY optimized system here - linux appears to give me lots of very small but annoying glitches, ive never spent enough time sorting them - windows works for me, dont try to change me23:45
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moontigerwow ... windows xp i assume?23:46
lcukyeah23:46
* Stskeeps uses xp as well23:46
Stskeepslinux when i have to23:46
moontigerhmmmmmmmm i find my linux runs faster than even xp23:46
Stskeepsdifferent tools for different jobs23:46
moontigerright23:46
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glass_depends what you run23:46
moontigeri only use windows for windows dev work23:46
zakkmMac is the best :) ( Runs on Mac )23:46
lcukxp with all the funky crap is slow as well - i keep ontop of whats needed and it runs wel23:46
* qwerty12_N800 uses vista (upgraded from xp) + linux23:46
lcukdev work in windows - .net?23:46
moontigermfc / atl / some .net ... desktop and mobile23:47
lcukeugh qwerty12_N800 thats worse than a livecd version of linux on a 128mb computer23:47
lcukvisual studio editor is sluggish as hell23:47
zakkmlivecd on any system is bad :P23:47
moontigeri have a vista dual boot machine23:47
lcuki refused to work in it23:47
moontigerit really is bad23:47
moontigereven if you try to like it23:47
zakkmanyone here like Mac OSX?23:48
glass_zakkm: i hate it23:48
moontigernot really zakkm23:48
qwerty12_N800lcuk, it was, but then i got to optimising it and then pimping my desktop aka making it slower and it's ok for me :p23:48
moontigernice hardware ... not so nice os23:48
lcukzakkm, dont dislike it, but also dont know enough to have a real impression23:48
glass_zakkm: also apples hw quality is crap and they market it with lies so..23:48
zakkmwith lies?23:48
zakkmglass_: with lies?23:48
moontigeri have an ipod nano 3g ... works great with linux23:48
zakkmIpodlinux?23:49
moontigerthats the only apple stuff i will own and that was a gift23:49
glass_they always overpuff the performances. like sayinga a radeon 9200 is a fast card(it never was, not even as new)23:49
zakkmthey still work on that?23:49
glass_i got an ipod23:49
glass_160gb23:49
moontigerlibgpod + gtkpod23:49
glass_the user interface is crap for 80gb of music23:49
glass_also it locks up randomly23:49
moontigerwhat does?23:49
zakkmrockbox is a nice alternative firmware.23:49
glass_also apple is very closed garden, which i dislike to the max23:49
zakkmmicrosoft is worse :P23:50
glass_no it isn't23:50
moontigerthats my issue too glass ... plus steve jobs makes me want to vomit23:50
zakkmyes it is23:50
glass_zakkm: i don't need to sign an nda with ms to develope for windows mobile23:50
moontigerand winmo is open for any apps to be installed23:50
glass_zakkm: etc etc.. apple is the closed garden king, have fun buying your 'certified' software in couple of years from itunes23:50
zakkmhaha23:51
zakkmi run mac x86.23:51
zakkmgot the sick atom motherboard :P23:51
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glass_almost everyone i know with a macbook has had it sent back at least once23:52
moontigerits funny seeing so many macbook pros at the ms campus23:52
moontigerand iphones / ipods23:52
moontigerthats the only time i appreciate apple23:52
yacoobi'd say ipod's interface is pretty good, but oh well. To each his own.23:52
glass_yacoob: it's ok, for couple of gigs of music23:52
glass_yacoob: but for 80+..23:53
yacoobglass_, ok, what's wrong with it?23:53
glass_yacoob: finding specific songs23:53
yacoob(I'm dealing with ~30GB)23:53
moontigerglass_, i have never understood keeping that much music on a portable device23:53
moontigeryou cant possibly listen to it all23:53
moontigeryou would die of old age first23:53
glass_moontiger: it's the entire music collection that i listen to23:53
yacoobmoontiger, one word: extra backup :)23:53
glass_moontiger: i keep it on shuffle most of the time23:53
* zakkm is buying nokia n800 to use as a music device too . .on a 2GB sd card.23:53
glass_moontiger: and i have every friggin song i got at home on the move too, if at some party or whatever23:54
glass_moontiger: of course the extra free space helps with sneaker-warezing23:54
* Stskeeps would really prefer a sync that took last.fm information, combined with my mp3 collection, and sync likely listening music before i head to work23:54
moontigerglass_, ok i get it .... for me an 8gb nano is heaps23:54
moontiger2 oe 3 days of music23:54
moontigeroe = or23:55
yacoobmoontiger, I, for one, am too lazy to change the contents :)23:55
moontigerhahaha23:55
glass_moontiger: yeah but what if you get the feeling to listen to beatles23:55
pupnik810yeah but random play needs a minsize to feel properly random23:55
moontiger<--- has the beatles on the nano23:55
moontigeri have 1400 songs on my nano23:55
* pupnik810 goes power-outlet seeking23:55
zakkmbeatles.. you guys truly are old :P23:55
moontigerthats enough for on the move for me23:55
moontigerhahaha23:56
moontigeror i just appreciate them23:56
moontiger;)23:56
moontigernot that old23:56
qwerty12_N800zakkm, +1 :p23:56
yacoobpeople don't live that long, to be still listening to beatles!23:56
pupnik810a few gb is ok.... a couple hundred MB too littled23:56
*** bittinen has quit IRC23:56
moontigerhey musicians appreciate real music23:56
moontigerits timeless23:56
moontiger:)~23:56
zakkmit was a joke.23:56
moontigernp zakkm i took it as a joke23:57
moontiger:)23:57
qwerty12_N800oops.. I was joking too :p :)23:57
moontigerhahaha no you werent23:57
zakkmmy 17 year old friend has beatles on his ipod and keeps listening to them ..23:57
qwerty12_N800moontiger, true :p23:57
* moontiger laughs23:57
glass_zakkm: the point is.. i listen to a wide variety of music.. '90s goth electro to '50s stuff to classical pieces to 'fuck the world' punk23:58
zakkmi love those songs:P " fuck the world " :P23:58
glass_so.. i don't want to keep just few albums with me23:58
moontigerwouldnt that be "fuk the world" porn?23:58
glass_of course i keep couple of porno vids on the ipod too23:58
glass_why not..23:58
moontigerhaha23:58
whodatgrr23:58
moontiger<-- has hot gf23:59
qwerty12_N800wank on the move?23:59
whodatwhy is miniSD so hard to get ahold of23:59
moontigerwhodat, amazon?23:59

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