IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-10-09

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derf	Hah, so it is.	00:00
derf	But anyway, it's probably a good idea to use the hand-optimized assembly FFT, since TI went through the trouble of writing one for us.	00:01
lardman	I symlinked it	00:01
lardman	also need to symlink TMS320.h to its lowercase counterpart	00:01
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lardman	~lart bloody Gnome filemanager for locking up the desktop, then giving me some crap about backend not supported when copying from one dir to another!	00:04
* infobot beats bloody Gnome filemanager severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken for locking up the desktop, then giving me some crap about backend not supported when copying from one dir to another!		00:04
lardman	I was going to upload the new Makefile	00:05
lardman	but anyway, just add "-i$(TOOLS_DIR)/ccs221_content/c5500/dsplib/include" to the "INCD = blah" lines	00:05
derf	Oh, I went and had to track down a separate copy. Because find . -name dsplib.h didn't find it, of course.	00:06
derf	Mine's newer, anyway :).	00:07
derf	But I did enjoy how the spru didn't bother to tell you where to _get_ the library.	00:08
derf	And the archive filename it suggested produced no useful Google results.	00:08
lardman	archive is a win exe :(	00:09
derf	It's just a zip file.	00:09
derf	unzip is perfectly happy extracting from self-extracting executables.	00:10
lardman	hmm, I thought inside was an exe	00:10
lardman	ah ok	00:10
derf	Okay, so now I need to get dspgw stuff setup.	00:11
derf	Since I don't have gen_dummy_kernel nor coff_unresolve.	00:12
lardman	hmm, should all be in the "extras" tarball I sent you	00:12
lardman	hang on a tick, brb	00:12
derf	Oh, there is one.	00:13
derf	I wonder why I couldn't find it before.	00:13
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lardman	re	00:24
lardman	the Makefile + linuxdsptools_env.bash should even have the right paths setup	00:25
lardman	;)	00:25
lardman	right, that's working now, on to the next error	00:26
lardman	mdct.c	00:26
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derf	Yeah, it's forcing the double-precision FFT there.	00:26
lardman	l156?	00:27
derf	You'll have to #define DOUBLE_PRECISION to get kiss_fft_scalar typedef'd correctly.	00:27
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derf	Right.	00:27
lardman	where should that be, config.h?	00:27
crashanddie_	Good to know, my neighboor uses the Google Toolbar	00:27
lardman	crashanddie_: ?	00:27
lardman	you peeking at their wifi traffic?	00:28
crashanddie_	me?	00:28
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lardman	:D	00:28
crashanddie_	I'm just breathing the air.... waves	00:28
lardman	derf: updated the config.h, Makefile and testcelt.c files and uploaded them	00:33
lardman	Makefile looks like it needs a further tweak, getting a linker error	00:34
lardman	dump_modes.c contains a main() fn, is this for testing?	00:35
derf	Yeah.	00:35
lardman	whole file can be removed?	00:35
derf	Correct.	00:35
lardman	cool, done, compiled and linked ok	00:36
derf	How'd you handle the lrint stuff?	00:36
lardman	Your float precision stuff got rid of the error	00:36
lardman	lots of warnings in the code still though probably	00:37
derf	Really? Not for me.	00:37
lardman	hmm	00:37
derf	And that wasn't float precision.	00:37
lardman	which file is this?	00:37
lardman	ah ok, my assumption	00:37
derf	celt.c, including float_cast.h	00:37
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derf	It's really only used for converting between the float API and the fixed point API, which should be eliminated by #defining DISABLE_FLOAT_API, but even with that #define, it still includes the offending header.	00:38
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lardman	am just recompiling to see	00:38
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baddu	hi lardman. can i ask a dsp related question?	00:39
lardman	hmm, well I have no complier errors or warnings, just a linker error about error: symbol _kiss_fft_celt_double is defined multiple times	00:39
lardman	baddu: of course	00:39
baddu	lardman: i want to reserve a relative large junk of memory for my dsp task. how can i know which address should i use with dspctl exmap ?	00:40
lardman	derf: celt.c certainly complies for me, no problems	00:40
derf	Huh.	00:40
lardman	baddu: don't use dspctl	00:40
lardman	baddu: you should specify the address in the DSP task, then you use mmap() on the ARM side to get a pointer to that memory	00:41
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baddu	lardman: ok, i have kind of done that but i still tougth i had to export the memory...	00:42
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derf	lardman: kiss_fft_single.c should not be in the compilation, I don't think.	00:42
lardman	baddu: you've used the mmap_info struct on the DSP side? This is what sorts out the memory sharing	00:43
lardman	derf: ok, I'll scrub it	00:43
derf	I got all the way to 'error: can't open file 'dummy.cmd' for input'	00:44
lardman	ah ok, you'll need one of those, I'll upload it	00:44
lardman	done	00:44
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baddu	lardman: yes, i'm using large static arrays and mmap them to the arm side. i tought that i need to give some address when they are loaded to the dsp in the linker command file	00:45
lardman	baddu: you need to specify where the shared memory will be placed, in either your linker command file or one of the existing memory sections	00:46
lardman	baddu: you're passing data from ARM to DSP, the static data?	00:46
lardman	or are you just wondering about where variables which are declared as static are placed?	00:47
baddu	lardman: no from dsp to arm	00:47
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lardman	oh, what does you code do then (so I have some background)?	00:48
baddu	lardman: and i have static array of 2M or at least i would like to have that :)	00:48
baddu	lardman: its the opengl es stuff, i mailed you about that some time ago...	00:49
baddu	:)	00:49
lardman	ok, static data are placed in SARAM iirc (look in the avs_kernelcfg.cmd file to check the location), there's not enough space there	00:49
derf	lardman: Okay, now I've got to 'error: linking files for incompatible targets'	00:49
derf	With a bunch of .obj files inside 55xdsp.lib	00:50
derf	lw	00:50
lardman	baddu: so you'll need to place them in SDRAM	00:50
baddu	lardman: ok, but there is no room for 2M strucutres I suppose	00:50
lardman	derf: what libs are you trying to link against in the Makefile, is it my one?	00:50
derf	Huh, you aren't even linking against 55xdsp.lib	00:50
derf	How does that possibly work?	00:51
lardman	baddu: you could #PRAGMA() the variable you create and place it in SDRAM	00:51
lardman	baddu: does it need to be shared with the ARM-side, or do you just need more memory to store the data?	00:51
lardman	derf: you don't actually need to link against the dsplib as it's already in the dsp kernel	00:52
baddu	lardman: well, i need to send them to the arm when i draw the stuff with X, i guess sending it othervise than mmap would be slow	00:52
derf	Oh, okay.	00:52
lardman	baddu: but they are static values?	00:53
crashanddie_	lol... he actually stores isohunt on google bookmarks	00:53
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baddu	no, sorry. not static. i meant static in that sense that not dynamically allocated	00:53
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lardman	baddu: ah, I see, so it's what, the framebuffer data?	00:53
baddu	static so that always the same size	00:53
lardman	ok	00:54
baddu	lardman: yes, 800x480x5 values	00:54
lardman	ok	00:54
lardman	on the dsp-side use the mmap structure to define a variable which will point to your data and the size of the data	00:55
lardman	you need to #PRAGMA the location of said variable (i.e. the array) to place it somewhere in a shared memory region	00:55
baddu	about 2M, if i want that to be visible to the arm side i guess i have to have it in the same pointer	00:55
lardman	only one region of shared memory can be shared, so everything you want shared will have to be in the same buffer	00:56
baddu	or the same array variable, i think i can share only one array with mmap?	00:56
baddu	yes	00:56
lardman	yes	00:56
woglinde	yes	00:56
woglinde	g	00:56
baddu	ok, and besides the #PRAGMA think do i need to declare the address of that variable?	00:57
baddu	yes yes :)	00:57
lardman	baddu: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m6fe351d4	00:58
lardman	or look at this, which I think is up to date: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/shared_memory_test/	00:59
lardman	so no, you don't need to declare the address of the variable on the DSP side, that's handled for automatically (i.e. the DSP says where, then that is shared on the ARM)	01:00
lardman	otoh, you can explicitly use a given address on the DSP side, for example if you had a FRAMEBUFFER memory section (which is special and has the framebuffer mapped to it automatically)	01:00
derf	lardman: Anyway, it compiles now. Thanks for all your help.	01:01
lardman	you might then create a pointer, and set its address manually	01:01
lardman	derf: np	01:01
baddu	ok, thats very nice. i haven't actually tested it with the actual program. i just couldn't get the mmap test program to work before exmapping the memory	01:01
lardman	derf: do you know how to install it?	01:01
derf	I've got your slides.	01:01
lardman	derf: cool, let me know how you get on	01:01
* lardman must finish writing up the slides		01:01
lardman	baddu: is that the one that comes with dsp gateway, or my one?	01:02
baddu	lardman: dspgateways one, although i modified it to compile as a module	01:03
lardman	baddu: hmm, I'd skip that one and try mine	01:03
lardman	or at least look at how the structure differs	01:03
baddu	lardman: ok, i have that also, i had some problems loading all the programs to the dsp today (good old ABORTADR) and suddenly everything started to work again	01:04
lardman	run "dsp_dld -p" in a other term to see what's causing the ABORTADR; as often as not it's because the dSP is being awkward and after a reset it works	01:05
baddu	ok, thanks	01:05
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lardman	night all	01:56
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cyrus__	anyone here install deblet? I installed it but once it completed it just appeared to repeat the installatoin. I rebooted and was not presented with any option to boot into deblet	02:14
crashanddie	Stskeeps, FOOT	02:14
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Deele	Anyone here?	03:35
Deele	I have question regarding nokia 770	03:37
Deele	Is there any possible way to make work any Java software on nokia 770 (OS2006)?	03:38
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crashanddie	Deele, no	04:24
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dick-richardson	I moved /etc/sudoers...how do i move it back?	05:16
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dick-richardson	I moved /etc/sudoers...how do i move it back?	05:24
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dick-richardson	anyone on?	05:28
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dick-richardson	must be some good pr0n	05:42
bef0rd	what do you mean 'you moved' it?	05:43
dick-richardson	I got it back...I ran 'sudo mv /etc/sudoers ./'	05:44
dick-richardson	which makes it difficult to do anything as sudo	05:44
dick-richardson	including moving it back :P	05:44
bef0rd	:P I just use rootsh	05:44
dick-richardson	I would have installed it, but that requires sudo access	05:46
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dick-richardson	anyone familiar w/this: http://shop.eten.hu/mugen-power-3600mah-extended-battery-for-nokia-n810-with-battery-door-blue-p-475.html	05:59
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EruditeHermit	is it possible to play urls with mplayer on maemo?	06:08
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EruditeHermit	and is it possible to speed up video playback using any media player? I get jittery playback	06:19
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zetheroo-ubuntu	how do you get GPS working on the N810?	06:36
zetheroo-ubuntu	is it built in?	06:36
zetheroo-ubuntu	anyone?	06:39
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: yesit should be	06:39
zetheroo-ubuntu	is there a program that I have to install to get it to work?	06:40
EruditeHermit	I don't know because I don't have one	06:42
EruditeHermit	but agps	06:42
EruditeHermit	is something that helps with GPS	06:42
EruditeHermit	maemo-mapper also uses it	06:43
EruditeHermit	maemo mapper is a really good mapping program	06:43
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: go to control panel	06:45
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EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: and click on GPS Location item	06:46
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: make sure your GPS is turned on	06:46
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zetheroo-ubuntu	yes	06:49
zetheroo-ubuntu	its on	06:49
zetheroo-ubuntu	finding only 1 sat though	06:49
zetheroo-ubuntu	how many do I need to get a map going?	06:50
EruditeHermit	I dunno	06:50
EruditeHermit	5	06:50
EruditeHermit	I read somewhere	06:50
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: install agps	06:50
moontiger	i think its 7	06:51
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: that uses internet connection to make lock faster	06:51
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: otherwise lock can take 10mins or more	06:51
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zetheroo-ubuntu	but what if there is no internet connection available?	06:53
EruditeHermit	it falls back to normal locking	06:53
zetheroo-ubuntu	so GPS is not all that steady	06:54
EruditeHermit	hmm	06:54
EruditeHermit	from what i have read	06:54
EruditeHermit	it is a complaint of many	06:54
zetheroo-ubuntu	ok	06:54
zetheroo-ubuntu	:)	06:55
zetheroo-ubuntu	well I love the N810	06:55
EruditeHermit	it may be steady	06:55
EruditeHermit	just takes a long time to lock satellites	06:55
zetheroo-ubuntu	super quality and maemo is a great piece of software	06:55
EruditeHermit	hmm	06:55
EruditeHermit	it WAS good	06:55
EruditeHermit	needs a good update now which it will get	06:56
EruditeHermit	with a new device	06:56
zetheroo-ubuntu	why do I have so few apps available for install?	06:56
EruditeHermit	you need maemo extras repo	06:57
EruditeHermit	http://www.gronmayer.com/it/	06:57
zetheroo-ubuntu	ok it was there but disabled	06:58
zetheroo-ubuntu	is maemo-mapper the best map app?	06:58
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: I like it the best	06:59
zetheroo-ubuntu	ok	06:59
zetheroo-ubuntu	do I need any other packages other than maemo-mapper to get the full usage from it ?	06:59
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: nope, you just need to select a map repository, like openstreetmap or yahoo, google, etc	07:00
zetheroo-ubuntu	ok	07:00
EruditeHermit	and download the maps for the area you want	07:00
zetheroo-ubuntu	in the GPS setup what do I select for the internal GPS to work?	07:01
zetheroo-ubuntu	File Path?	07:01
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zetheroo-ubuntu	/dev/pgps	07:01
zetheroo-ubuntu	?	07:01
EruditeHermit	I dunno	07:01
EruditeHermit	I don't have an n810 but try it	07:01
EruditeHermit	from the menu	07:02
EruditeHermit	select the GPS item	07:02
EruditeHermit	and then select enable GPS	07:02
EruditeHermit	what does that do?	07:02
zetheroo-ubuntu	it says Searching for GPS receiver ... and then Error reading GPS data!	07:02
zetheroo-ubuntu	is that becasue I am not locked on	07:03
EruditeHermit	could be	07:03
EruditeHermit	install agps	07:03
EruditeHermit	and see if that helps it lock on	07:03
zetheroo-ubuntu	ok	07:03
EruditeHermit	GPS performance is not so good indoors	07:03
zetheroo-ubuntu	ahhh	07:03
EruditeHermit	indoors you might have a network connection that helps it get a lock on	07:04
zetheroo-ubuntu	is it possible to get the pop-up keyboard on the screen with the N810?	07:04
EruditeHermit	yes	07:04
zetheroo-ubuntu	how?	07:04
EruditeHermit	tap on a text input area	07:04
EruditeHermit	with the stylus or a pen	07:05
zetheroo-ubuntu	I am	07:05
zetheroo-ubuntu	nothing is happening	07:05
EruditeHermit	err	07:05
EruditeHermit	ok	07:05
EruditeHermit	one sec	07:05
EruditeHermit	go to control settings	07:05
EruditeHermit	settings-->control panel	07:05
zetheroo-ubuntu	yep	07:05
EruditeHermit	text input settings	07:05
zetheroo-ubuntu	ahh	07:06
zetheroo-ubuntu	enable it	07:06
zetheroo-ubuntu	agps is not in the repos	07:06
bef0rd	you need to close the hardware keyboard or it wont appear	07:06
zetheroo-ubuntu	do I need to download it?	07:06
EruditeHermit	agps might be in maemo extras	07:06
EruditeHermit	make sure you have enabled the maemo extras repository	07:07
zetheroo-ubuntu	its enabled	07:07
EruditeHermit	hmm	07:07
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EruditeHermit	agps-ui	07:08
EruditeHermit	I have: nokia catalg; nokia catlog 3rd party software; Nokia System sofware updates; maemo extras;	07:10
EruditeHermit	catalog*	07:11
EruditeHermit	hmm	07:12
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: agps-ui should be in the nokia catalogues	07:12
EruditeHermit	try reloading your lists	07:12
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zetheroo-ubuntu	will try	07:20
zetheroo-ubuntu	do you have the N800 or N810?	07:21
zetheroo-ubuntu	cause its not here	07:21
EruditeHermit	n800 here	07:23
EruditeHermit	Get:2 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com diablo/user agps-ui 0.10-1beta	07:23
zetheroo-ubuntu	maybe its been pulled from the repos	07:23
EruditeHermit	are you using diablo?	07:24
EruditeHermit	or chinook?	07:24
zetheroo-ubuntu	no idea what either of those are	07:24
zetheroo-ubuntu	whats red pill mode by the way?	07:24
EruditeHermit	go to control panel	07:24
EruditeHermit	click about	07:24
EruditeHermit	what does it say the Version is?	07:25
zetheroo-ubuntu	2.2007.51-3	07:25
EruditeHermit	ah	07:25
EruditeHermit	thats why	07:25
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: how much time are you willing to spend on your tablet?	07:26
EruditeHermit	since you got your tablet, Nokia released sofware updates that require that you flash your tablet if you want to update it	07:27
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zetheroo-ubuntu	ahhh	07:29
zetheroo-ubuntu	well I did that before on the N800 ... so I don't mind doing it again with this one	07:29
zetheroo-ubuntu	if its not too difficult ...	07:29
zetheroo-ubuntu	:)	07:29
EruditeHermit	its not too bad	07:29
zetheroo-ubuntu	can you help me?	07:30
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: what OS is your laptop/desktop that you use?	07:30
zetheroo-ubuntu	Ubuntu	07:30
zetheroo-ubuntu	Hardy	07:30
EruditeHermit	I'll point you to simple instructions	07:30
EruditeHermit	ah good, me too	07:30
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EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	07:32
EruditeHermit	follow instructions there	07:32
EruditeHermit	make sure you backup all your files on the tablet	07:32
EruditeHermit	everything will be wiped out	07:33
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EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: let me know how it goes	07:39
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zetheroo-ubuntu	where is the flasher?	07:52
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bef0rd	~flashing	07:56
infobot	well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	07:56
bef0rd	# Download the flasher for your platform and tablet model from Nokia's Tablet Dev site	07:57
bef0rd	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/	07:57
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zetheroo-ubuntu	./flasher-3.0: command not found	08:09
GeneralAntilles	zetheroo-ubuntu, you have to tell it where the flasher is.	08:09
zetheroo-ubuntu	I am in the folder where it is	08:10
GeneralAntilles	./flasher<tab>	08:10
zetheroo-ubuntu	?	08:10
GeneralAntilles	type ./flasher and press tab	08:10
zetheroo-ubuntu	I downloaded flasher-3.0 to my desktop	08:11
zetheroo-ubuntu	nothing happens when I do that	08:11
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, Maemo Mapper is in Diablo Extras now.	08:11
zetheroo-ubuntu	zeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ sudo ./flasher-3.0 -F <RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin> -f -R[sudo] password for zeth: sudo: ./flasher-3.0: command not found	08:11
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bef0rd	ls flash*	08:12
zetheroo-ubuntu	:-S	08:12
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zetheroo-ubuntu	zeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ ls flash*flasher-3.0	08:13
prak	is busybox the archiver for maemo?	08:14
zetheroo-ubuntu	any ideas?	08:15
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zetheroo-ubuntu	GeneralAntilles : you still there?	08:20
zetheroo-ubuntu	I tried it without sudo and this is what I got	08:21
zetheroo-ubuntu	zeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ ./flasher-3.0 -F <RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin> -f -Rbash: ./flasher-3.0: Permission deniedzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$	08:22
prak	what is the most common application for opening tarball files in maemo?	08:22
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GeneralAntilles	prak, tar?	08:22
GeneralAntilles	xarchiver is around somewhere, too.	08:22
zetheroo-ubuntu	EruditeHermit : you there?	08:22
GeneralAntilles	zetheroo-ubuntu, sudo chmod 755 ./flasher-3.0	08:22
zetheroo-ubuntu	ok	08:22
prak	thanks	08:23
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zetheroo-ubuntu	now it gives this	08:23
zetheroo-ubuntu	zeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ ./flasher-3.0 -F <RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin> -f -Rflasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006)-R: No such file or directory	08:23
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: remove the < and >	08:23
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EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: I hope you backed up your files btw	08:24
zetheroo-ubuntu	which is the swap button?	08:24
zetheroo-ubuntu	there where no files...	08:24
EruditeHermit	the one with the house	08:24
zetheroo-ubuntu	its just came brand new	08:24
EruditeHermit	looks like a house	08:25
zetheroo-ubuntu	no house here...	08:25
EruditeHermit	hmm	08:25
GeneralAntilles	zetheroo-ubuntu, the two overlapping rectangles.	08:25
EruditeHermit	its nearest the camera	08:25
zetheroo-ubuntu	Suitable USB device not found, waitingUSB device found found at bus 007, device address 003Error claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted	08:25
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GeneralAntilles	zetheroo-ubuntu, you have to rude flasher as root.	08:26
GeneralAntilles	s/rude/run/	08:26
EruditeHermit	zetheroo-ubuntu: put sudo infront of that	08:26
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: zetheroo-ubuntu, you have to run flasher as root.	08:26
EruditeHermit	sudo infront of the whole command	08:26
zetheroo-ubuntu	ok.. its working	08:26
zetheroo-ubuntu	:)	08:26
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EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: do you know any way to make video playback better?	08:28
GeneralAntilles	EruditeHermit, install mplayer?	08:28
EruditeHermit	yeah, mplayer is slow	08:28
EruditeHermit	or my video is stuttering with it still	08:28
GeneralAntilles	What video?	08:29
EruditeHermit	may or may not be slow in absolute terms	08:29
EruditeHermit	its a stream	08:29
GeneralAntilles	There are hard limits on the data that can be transfered to the LCD controller	08:29
GeneralAntilles	and network activity decreases that even more as it adds CPU overhead.	08:29
EruditeHermit	mms://skinkers-livestation-bbcworld-en.wm.llnwd.net/skinkers_livestation_bbcworld_en	08:29
GeneralAntilles	I wouldn't push more than 400x240 @ ~700-1100Kbps with MPEG4 over the network.	08:29
EruditeHermit	that is the stream	08:30
EruditeHermit	do you think its too much?	08:30
* Proteous_ squints really hard at the url and realizes that it wont magicaly tell him the bandwidth and resolution of the stream		08:31
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GeneralAntilles	Dunno	08:31
GeneralAntilles	Is it WMV or somesuch?	08:31
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EruditeHermit	VIDEO: [WVC1] 448x288 24bpp 1000.000 fps 470.0 kbps (57.4 kbyte/s)	08:33
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Proteous_	that's a lot of FPS	08:34
Proteous_	I don't think the refresh rate of the tablet is that high	08:34
EruditeHermit	thats what mplayer spat out	08:34
EruditeHermit	may or may not be true	08:34
Proteous_	I'll give you 5000:1 odds	08:35
EruditeHermit	lol	08:35
Proteous_	want to bet me a dollar?	08:35
EruditeHermit	only if it is your dollar	08:35
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EruditeHermit	dollars*	08:35
EruditeHermit	only if they are your dollars*	08:35
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EruditeHermit	mplayer with omapfb is better	08:39
EruditeHermit	it drops a lot of frames	08:40
EruditeHermit	but it doesn't stop the audio as much as osso player	08:40
Proteous_	I use tversity to on the fly encode my media for my n810	08:42
Proteous_	I've also used orb	08:42
Proteous_	(both windows programs although there are linux/mac alternatives)	08:42
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moontiger	is maemo.org really so busy?	09:20
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GeneralAntilles	Yes, it gets pounded a lot.	09:23
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notcoolbuthot	hi, I'm having troubles getting to see in eclipse the documentation (method signature) for the gtk+ api, a full indexing seems to only make that possible for inner project files. Must I include something in the project paths area? I would also wish to get to view the gtk+ files in eclipse when I right-click->open_declaration on a gtk+ method. Can anyone help me?	09:42
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moontiger	GeneralAntilles, whats with the nokia chat thingy? is anyone using it? how does one sign up for an account?	09:48
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EruditeHermit	notcoolbuthot: you should probably ask in another channel maybe?	10:02
EruditeHermit	notcoolbuthot: is it eclipse for maemo?	10:02
notcoolbuthot	yes	10:02
EruditeHermit	ah	10:02
notcoolbuthot	eclipse with ESbox	10:02
EruditeHermit	well I don't know how to help you	10:02
EruditeHermit	but maybe an eclipse channel could help you as well as others in here	10:03
EruditeHermit	you might want to ask in other places too	10:03
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EruditeHermit	seems like a very technical question	10:03
EruditeHermit	about eclipse	10:03
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hrw	morning	10:41
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eekisa	morning	10:42
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AStorm	GeneralAntilles: thanks for info :)	11:21
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: ping	11:25
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, pong.	11:25
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: The maemo.org redesign thread looks like it could do some chairing. Quim seems to be getting very frustrated and there's circular discussions about making things big	11:26
GeneralAntilles	Carman took an odd approach to implementing its statusbar applet.	11:27
AStorm	time to get my sbox up again	11:28
AStorm	and build an OpenCV package	11:28
AStorm	and python-opencv too	11:28
* GeneralAntilles was dreading that.		11:29
AStorm	btw, I need a less broken xournal :)	11:30
AStorm	even the chinook one is rarely crashing	11:30
AStorm	as a bonus, someone could implement "hand" panning tool	11:31
AStorm	and/or widen the scrollbar	11:31
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, problem is, I'm really totally disconnected from that discussion at this point.	11:39
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: hmm	11:39
GeneralAntilles	Looking at it it just feels like so much noise to me.	11:40
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RST38h	GAN, Jaffa: I am no longer participating. The stuff they discuss does not appear to have anything to do with what was planned.	11:54
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* lcuk ponders the meaning of life		12:30
lcuk	(whilst waiting for tps reports to print)	12:30
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dfaure	I reformated the internal sd card (mmc2) to ext3 and cloned the system there, but now the map application says "no memory card found". any idea how I could use maps again?	12:52
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johnx	dfaure, mount something on /media/mmc2?	12:56
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RST38h	moo, lcuk, johnx	13:00
johnx	m00f RST38h	13:00
RST38h	moo, zap too	13:00
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woglinde	morning	13:02
woglinde	hm has someone a idea how I can map/alias the standard locales which is utf of de_DE to de_DE.UTF-8 like on desktop?	13:02
woglinde	hm or the other way round	13:04
woglinde	i want to set it to de_DE.UTF-8 and it has to map to the standard de_DE on maemo	13:04
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lardman	morning all	13:08
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woglinde	hi lardman	13:09
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dfaure	johnx: thanks. I reformatted /dev/mtdblock4 as vfat and it works again. the error message was misleading, I thought it was looking for a memory card explicitely, instead it was just looking for a vfat partition anywhere :-)	13:14
johnx	eep!	13:14
GAN800	Warning!	13:14
johnx	uhm, you really shouldn't do that to mtdblock4	13:15
dfaure	?	13:15
dfaure	oops?	13:15
GAN800	Your internal flash will fail very soon.	13:15
johnx	that's a raw NAND device and it needs a wear leveling file system	13:15
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johnx	probably won't fail soon but go and reformat it to jffs2 right now	13:15
GAN800	Never EVER format a raw mtd block as non-wear-leveling fs.	13:15
johnx	if you need to get stuff off of it remount it read-only first	13:15
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dfaure	there's no mkfs.jffs2 ... how do I do that?	13:16
johnx	hang on a sec, I'll find you a copy of mkfs.jffs2	13:16
dfaure	these devices confuse me ;) if mtdblock4 is too small for installing real software, but can't hold maps either, it's pretty useless :/	13:17
johnx	hmm? real software = software that takes lots of space? :P	13:17
dfaure	yeah :-) like, say, kdepim :)	13:18
GAN800	Works for the vast majority of users.	13:18
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GAN800	jffs2 is compressed anyway	13:18
dfaure	well it was full.	13:18
johnx	kdepim fits in 64MB on a zaurus...	13:18
johnx	remove the useless manuals and images and videos included in /home/user	13:19
dfaure	I installed kde4 kdelibs+kdepim (from Mek's package) and the jffs2 system was full	13:19
dfaure	Mek told me to boot off the memory card, so now the whole system is cloned there...	13:19
MangoFusion	just clone onto SD. that works for me ;)	13:19
dfaure	MangoFusion: and can you still use the maps?	13:20
johnx	dfaure, yeah, booting from sd card isn't a bad idea if you need it	13:20
johnx	just make two partitions...	13:20
MangoFusion	is there a problem with the maps on SD? i haven't tried	13:20
dfaure	yeah I see that there's lots of empty space, two partitions is probably a good idea.	13:20
johnx	make the first one vfat and it will auto-mount on /media/mmc2 still	13:21
dfaure	MangoFusion: well the problem is that if the SD is one big ext2 partition then the maps don't work	13:21
dfaure	(since they have to be on a vfat partition, for a reason that totally escapes me)	13:21
GAN800	'Map' doesn't work very well either way. ;)	13:21
johnx	actually, I can't find a mkfs.jffs2 for the tablet...	13:22
dfaure	GAN800: hey I'm trying to find some usefulness to this device, don't take one third of it away ;)	13:23
Stskeeps	look at fanoush's bootmenu	13:23
GAN800	Maemo Mapper	13:23
MangoFusion	just need to make a fat partition before the cloned system partition i think?	13:23
johnx	Stskeeps, ah, good idea	13:23
GAN800	dfaure, if it's not useful, why buy it?	13:23
dfaure	GAN800: heh ;) it was a gift from nokia	13:23
johnx	dfaure, did you install bootmenu to dual boot? if so, look under /usr/libexec/bootmenu/mkfs.jffs2	13:24
GAN800	or just flasher-3.0 -F <FIASCO> --flash-only=rootfs	13:24
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dfaure	I have some sort of boot menu indeed, but no /usr/libexec/bootmenu/	13:24
dfaure	ah thanks found it	13:24
dfaure	inside the initfs_flasher dir	13:24
dfaure	hehe that's for making a jffs2 image from a directory tree. why is it named mkfs.jffs2 then :-)	13:25
* MangoFusion loves when the modest browser decides to choke on JS-heavy sites		13:26
dfaure	MangoFusion: that's exactly why you want konqueror on the device :-)	13:26
MangoFusion	that would be 10 times worse ;)	13:27
johnx	nah, webkit has a better js engine for now I think	13:27
MangoFusion	konqueror pulls from webkit now?	13:27
MangoFusion	i thought they were still seperate	13:27
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dfaure	yes they are separate	13:27
dfaure	although we merge fixes from webkit now and then	13:27
GAN800	'modest browser'?	13:28
johnx	GAN800, JS heavy email? :)	13:28
GAN800	MicroB's getting updates all the time.	13:29
MangoFusion	sorry microb	13:29
GAN800	We'll be there soon enough.	13:29
MangoFusion	too many m's	13:29
GAN800	Three?	13:29
GAN800	Maemo, Modest, MicroB	13:29
johnx	all progress is good progress. It's nice to see cross-polination of ideas and especially nice to see open source browsers overshadowing closed source ones	13:29
MangoFusion	does anyone know if there is a JavaScript console available for microb?	13:29
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MangoFusion	i seem to be getting an error in my code	13:30
MangoFusion	which i cannot reproduce anywhere else	13:30
MangoFusion	not even firebug lite seems to help	13:30
GAN800	I wonder how Carman does alternate map repos.	13:31
RST38h	Has Carman been released?	13:31
GAN800	Sorta of	13:31
GAN800	metapackage doesn't seem to be in place	13:31
RST38h	extras-devel for now?	13:31
GAN800	But installing most of the stuff apt-cache search carman* shows will do yah	13:32
GAN800	Yeah	13:32
RST38h	will be waiting then	13:32
GAN800	It's very pretty	13:32
RST38h	btw, there is a nice network scanner app released but it has got real problems integrating into hildon ui	13:32
RST38h	and it's not in the repo, unfortunately	13:33
GAN800	I need to figure out which Bluetooth serial adaptor I want.	13:33
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RST38h	Meanwhile: "Armed police officers yesterday shot dead a devil dog which attacked four people during a uncontrolled rampage in Mitcham, South London."	13:34
RST38h	GAN: There is exactly 1 (one) BT ODB dongle on the market	13:34
RST38h	So, it is not necessary figuring out	13:34
GAN800	Serial adaptor for the OBDII scanner I already have.	13:34
RST38h	ah	13:34
johnx	you kids with your digital ECUs shakes his head	13:34
* GAN800 throws a carb at johnx.		13:35
johnx	heh...not talking carbs either. I'm thinking about early analog ECUs :)	13:36
GAN800	I'm really baffled by the Max Payne trailer	13:36
RST38h	johnx, lemme guess, a bicycle? =)	13:36
johnx	RST38h, lots of early 80's Japanese cars	13:36
RST38h	ah	13:36
GAN800	I've played the game at least 20 times and it doesn't look a thing like it.	13:36
* RST38h had an '84 Camry but it already came with a digital ecu, afaik		13:37
johnx	yeah, it was just a couple really awkward years in the late 70s/early 80s	13:37
RST38h	The only movie based on a game that I liked was the Mario Brothers but only because the whole production team seemed to be on toadstools	13:38
GAN800	urgh	13:38
RST38h	No, really, how else would you produce shit like that?	13:39
GAN800	What good video game-based games have there been?	13:39
lcuk	street fighter	13:40
lcuk	(only cos kylie was in it)	13:40
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GAN800	it's sad because there's a lot of good material to work from	13:41
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lardman	Doom? ;)	13:43
lcuk	not really, what would be best is to find a story which can sit on multiple platforms andhas enough backstory to make both the game and the movie entertaining and thrilling	13:43
* lcuk wants to see half life universe explored in movie		13:43
RST38h	games normally have skin-deep back stories, what would you work from?	13:43
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GeneralAntilles	Normally, but that's not true of all games.	13:44
lcuk	RST38h, thats the thing, the backstory commonly comes from what the engine is capable of	13:44
* lardman wants to see the Force Unleashed as it's console only; then again there is already a book of the story of the game, hmm		13:44
dfaure	should I flash_eraseall /dev/mtd4 or is this yet another bad idea?	13:44
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RST38h	lcuk: Not really: books "engine" isn't capable of anything but god do they have rich back stories!	13:44
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, I want to to Shadows of the Empire made into a movie.	13:44
lardman	GeneralAntilles: there must be books of that already?	13:44
johnx	can I has my snow crash movie?	13:45
RST38h	ok, just give me a Dungeonkeeper The Movie...	13:45
GeneralAntilles	lardman, yes, there's a book.	13:45
GeneralAntilles	Lucas can't have anything to do with it, though.	13:45
lardman	books are better than movies.	13:45
GeneralAntilles	He's clearly lost his mind.	13:45
GeneralAntilles	Books are _different_ than movies.	13:45
lcuk	RST38h, books are entirely artistic and mind candy, if theres enough meat inside a good literary universe you can expand to movies/games	13:45
lcuk	like star wars as mentioned	13:45
lardman	well written book is better than a movie, unless the movie is going to be 10hrs long of course ;)	13:45
GeneralAntilles	Few people really push the medium to its limits, though.	13:45
lcuk	but more often than not the backstory to a game is like the plot to a porn movie	13:46
RST38h	lcuk: Exactly. But games are entirely eye candy and masturbation tools	13:46
RST38h	lcuk: No place for backstories there	13:46
GeneralAntilles	2001 is an example of a movie that really excels at pushing the visual medium.	13:46
lcuk	*see previous comment	13:46
lardman	Leisure suite Larry?	13:46
lardman	(spelling?)	13:46
lcuk	jet set willy :D	13:46
lcuk	in 3d	13:46
RST38h	even stuff like WoW is basically a masturbation tool	13:46
lcuk	wow is visual IRC	13:47
lardman	depends what you're in to :)	13:47
* johnx vows never to play WoW against RST38h		13:47
RST38h	Queer pleasure through repetitive performance of senseless actions	13:47
lardman	johnx: lol. might be an advantage for you though, not got his mind on the job	13:47
* RST38h has never played WoW but has just met a WoW addict		13:47
lcuk	i like playing the maemo game :)	13:47
lardman	GAN800: SW games have gone downhill since Dark Forces and the first of the Jedi Knights imo	13:48
lcuk	i hear its starting to be ported to other gaming systems at the moment though ;)	13:48
RST38h	This stuff isn't healthy	13:48
GeneralAntilles	"<lcuk> RST38h, books are entirely artistic and mind candy"	13:48
GeneralAntilles	That makes no sense, lcuk. :P	13:48
RST38h	depends on how you define artistic	13:48
johnx	WoW addicts are just drug addicts who don't know a dealer...	13:48
lardman	GeneralAntilles: probably means you have to use your imagination	13:48
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, theres more to read than the back of a cereal packet	13:48
GeneralAntilles	lardman, for a Calculus textbook, too? :P	13:48
RST38h	He obviously did not mean your calculus textbook =)	13:49
GeneralAntilles	Books are nothing more than bound pages of paper with words printed on them.	13:49
lardman	yeah, imagine how you're going to take over the world using your new skills, motivational ;)	13:49
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, shrugs it _is_ a book.	13:49
* RST38h is trying to figure out how to get access to a machine in the US		13:50
* lcuk changes stance: fiction books were intent of my comment		13:50
RST38h	From a "controlled country", too...	13:50
RST38h	Obfuscated to no end...	13:50
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, a lot of fiction books fail the "artistry and mind candy" test, too. ;)	13:50
dfaure	funny, mount -t jffs2 was enough to get a jffs2 system back. no mkfs needed.	13:50
Stskeeps	uh.	13:51
johnx	O_o	13:51
RST38h	GAN: Calculus certainly satisfies the mind candy part	13:51
johnx	dfaure, run mount and make sure	13:51
RST38h	GAN: And the artistry depends on the author	13:51
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, just like many games fail the entertaining and fun tests	13:51
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, now _that's_ a highly subjective statement.	13:51
dfaure	yep, mount says jffs2.	13:51
* lcuk stops this convo anyway, we are gettin in the way of a serious problem		13:51
lardman	I'd work through this: Actually the only aspect I get hung up on (and with the comic as well) has to do with fuel for the jet boots. But again, I just suspend disbelief and enjoy the fictional ride...	13:52
dfaure	and I can chown a file, so this is definitely not FAT :)	13:52
lardman	oops	13:52
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Stskeeps	so you mkfs'ed mtdblock4 with vfat, and then you're able to remount it vfat?	13:52
lardman	bloody cut and paste	13:52
* RST38h had more Calculus than General can ever imagine		13:52
lardman	this even: http://www.sfsite.com/lists/orion01.htm	13:52
Stskeeps	mount it jffs2, that is	13:52
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, yes, I'm sure, but not everybody find math enjoyable.	13:52
dfaure	Stskeeps: Yep. I mkfs'ed mtdblock4 with vfat, mouted it, umounted it, then mounted it with -t jffs2, and that seems to have reformatted it	13:52
dfaure	it matches what I saw while googling, too; people would erase the mtd device and then just mount it...	13:53
RST38h	300+ hours total just in the first 4 semesters	13:53
Stskeeps	dfaure: god bless unexpected sideeffects..	13:53
dfaure	yeah what if someone has important data in a vfat partition and just mounts it wrongly....	13:53
Stskeeps	i swear, at some point i'm going to discover something that'll make me loose all faith in technology, and i'd move into a monastary	13:53
crashanddie	thank god for that	13:54
crashanddie	s/loose/lose/	13:55
crashanddie	or s/me loose all faith/my faith all loose/	13:55
Stskeeps	grammar nazi.	13:59
RST38h	KILL KILL	13:59
RST38h	http://gizmodo.com/5060946/barack-obamas-3-million-overhead-projector-actually-pretty-cool	13:59
* RST38h gives up on trying to get access =(		13:59
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GeneralAntilles	lardman, related: what killed Iron Man for me was the scientist idiotically waving a rifle running after those two terrorists who were themselves running away like a couple of schoolgirls.	14:01
lardman	well he was probably pretty smelly after living in a cave for a year...	14:03
GeneralAntilles	All that stupid campy shit that you'd never see in Batman.	14:03
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lardman	hmm, I'm not too fond of Batman, film started well, finished poorly	14:03
lardman	first of the new ones that is, I've not seen the latest one	14:04
GeneralAntilles	O_O	14:04
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GeneralAntilles	Oh	14:04
GeneralAntilles	Ah	14:04
* Stskeeps fell asleep during the dark knight.. but then again, that was after several beers		14:04
GeneralAntilles	I was going to have to kill you for not liking The Dark Knight	14:04
Stskeeps	should rewatch it some other point	14:04
GeneralAntilles	Dark Knight is probably the greatest superhero movie ever made.	14:04
lardman	When's it out on video?	14:04
lardman	s/video/DVD (of course)	14:04
GeneralAntilles	Dunno	14:04
GeneralAntilles	I saw it 4 times in IMAX	14:05
lardman	must be cheaper to go to the cinema over there then! ;)	14:05
GeneralAntilles	Free	14:05
lardman	hmm, yes that's quite cheap :)	14:05
GeneralAntilles	I know a few people who work in that theater.	14:05
towo	Finally got my N810 back from the Big N...	14:06
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lcuk	towo, how did you get it back from Nigel, he threatened to beat me up when i asked for mine back	14:07
towo	Bigger guns.	14:08
lcuk	was it bein repaired? how long did it take?	14:08
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RST38h	Gentlemen, do you all understand that you are discussing stupid story-less movies shot in Hollywood based on some goddamn comic books?	14:09
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RST38h	Heh	14:10
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RST38h	And you expect these movies to be realitic! =)	14:10
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GeneralAntilles	RST38h, did you see the new Batman's?	14:10
GeneralAntilles	s/'//	14:11
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: RST38h, did you see the new Batmans?	14:11
RST38h	No and not going to	14:11
GeneralAntilles	Then stuff it.	14:11
RST38h	It is quite sufficient that I have seen Iron Man, while on a plane	14:11
johnx	now, now children. quit bickering	14:11
* Stskeeps had a flashback of comic book guy for a second there		14:12
RST38h	The old Batman at least had the atmosphere. I do not exepct anything but blue-screened visual effects from the new one	14:12
lcuk	Stskeeps, only for a second?	14:12
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, actually, there's not a lot of CGI in the new ones.	14:12
Stskeeps	lcuk: okay, more :P	14:12
johnx	GeneralAntilles, uhm, WTH?	14:12
GeneralAntilles	johnx, true!	14:12
RST38h	General: Really? Why?	14:12
RST38h	Ran out of money?	14:13
GeneralAntilles	Well, more than the latest drama.	14:13
GeneralAntilles	But Nolan isn't a fan of over-the-top effects.	14:13
johnx	GeneralAntilles, do you think that the batmobile and that ridiculous bat-cycle-thing exist and were driven around a real city?	14:13
GeneralAntilles	johnx, the batcycle was CGI	14:13
GeneralAntilles	The batmobile is real.	14:13
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GeneralAntilles	"I think there's a vague sense out there that movies are becoming more and more unreal, I know I've felt it. The demand we put on ourselves was to be as spectacular as possible, but not depend on computer graphics to do it."	14:13
johnx	GeneralAntilles, and it really crushes cars?	14:13
RST38h	Mars Attacks was probably the last good SF movie to come from Hollywood	14:14
GeneralAntilles	johnx, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batmobile_(Batman_Begins)	14:14
RST38h	Given that Wag The Dog is now a documentary.	14:14
Stskeeps	latest decent sci fi i've seen was the man from earth, and code 46.. well, and v for vendetta	14:16
GeneralAntilles	Man from Earth was excellent	14:16
GeneralAntilles	Classic science fiction	14:16
Stskeeps	i went to donate cos i couldn't buy it in my region just yet	14:16
* RST38h checks imdb		14:16
thux	i need to keep two keyboards on nit-env-gnome-basic that how could write one or an another	14:17
Stskeeps	thux: huh?	14:17
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, you didn't like the Matrix?	14:17
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* Stskeeps was okay with first matrix, animatrix, but two last ones sucked		14:17
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, well, duh. ;)	14:17
RST38h	General: No. Should I?	14:18
lardman	V for Vendetta! I couldn't bring myself to watch that	14:18
GeneralAntilles	Donnie Dark is another good one post Mars Attacks	14:18
Stskeeps	yeah, donnie darko obviously	14:18
GeneralAntilles	Children of Men	14:18
Stskeeps	lardman: it's a -very- good movie	14:18
lardman	hmm	14:18
Stskeeps	especially when you live in UK you can probably draw some parrallels :P	14:18
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I'm baffled as to why one wouldn't like the Matrix.	14:18
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, how about Serenity?	14:19
Stskeeps	(why is it always UK that gets the movies about police states, deadly infections, etc?)	14:19
thux	mostly upper one but it opens first lower one and have to close killing pid	14:19
johnx	GeneralAntilles, to be different.	14:19
RST38h	General: Mindless special effects, shallow and unoriginal back story, naive ideas of what networks and hacking are	14:19
RST38h	General: I absolutely liked Serenity the series and somewhat liked the move	14:19
RST38h	movie	14:19
RST38h	General: For the sole reason that it is very low key and not about SF at all	14:20
lardman	Serenity movie was rubbish imho, not seen the series	14:20
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Stskeeps	thux: not sure what you're trying to explain	14:20
RST38h	lardman: You should see series first, the movie is kinda useless to watch otherwise	14:20
johnx	lardman, it doesn't work too well to see the movie first I think	14:20
lardman	yeah, not much backstory, or indeed story at all afaict	14:20
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johnx	lardman, it doesn't give enough character intro in the movie. you need to start watching it with the characters already in your mind	14:21
GeneralAntilles	Eh, I saw the movie first and enjoyed the hell out of it.	14:21
RST38h	Movie isn't bad but kinda incomplete	14:21
GeneralAntilles	johnx, you read the wiki page? :)	14:23
johnx	GeneralAntilles, what wiki page?	14:23
GeneralAntilles	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batmobile_(Batman_Begins)	14:24
johnx	ah, that. yeah...I believe you now. I still think a lot of that scene was done with cgi, but I'll grant not all of it	14:24
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* Stskeeps ponders idly		14:30
Stskeeps	found a comment somewhere: Boot loader is "NoLo". It supports booting off from SD cards as well.	14:30
Stskeeps	i wonder	14:30
lcuk	go go stskeeps	14:31
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Stskeeps	not that it matters that much when we can add new kernel and such and flash it..	14:32
Stskeeps	still, .. FreeBSD? ;>	14:33
johnx	with ... no drivers? :P	14:33
Stskeeps	hehe	14:34
X-Fade	Sweet, the Collabora stuff is coming to Extras ;)	14:34
Stskeeps	didn't say it should be useful	14:34
Stskeeps	johnx: in any case it would probably be possible to replace NOLO with u-boot	14:34
Stskeeps	i'm not going to touch that, but it's probably possible	14:34
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johnx	or just kexec if needed	14:34
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bongo	hi. i want to get a passwordless root login to diablo. where should i place my pub key? i can add the key to ~/.ssh/authorized_keys to login as user, but i need to do this for root	14:38
dfaure	bongo: then /root/.ssh/authorized_keys ;)	14:38
bongo	ok, just create the .ssh folder if it is not there?	14:39
dfaure	yes	14:39
bongo	works, thx	14:40
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RST38h	X-Fade: Just make sure they and Nix merge their Pidgin installations	14:46
RST38h	X-Fade: Also, after talking with Collabora guys, it looks like their Pidgin/libpurple packages are kind of bogus: they are not supposed to be used separately, only as support for their own stuff	14:47
X-Fade	RST38h: That is their idea actually ;)	14:47
RST38h	X-Fade: I talked to them about it yesterday ;)	14:47
X-Fade	RST38h: Ah good ;)	14:48
RST38h	Their stuff includes 18MB extra data (which is really optional and this is how Nix' Pidgin treats it)	14:48
hrw	bongo: next time use ssh-copy-id	14:50
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hrw	'ssh-copy-id root@nokia.lan'	14:50
X-Fade	RST38h: Well anyway, it is easier to deal with it when it is all in the same repo.	14:50
RST38h	X-Fade: hopefully =)	14:50
X-Fade	RST38h: Or it might explode earlier ;)	14:50
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bongo	hrw: nice hint ;)	14:51
RST38h	it will most likely explode due to version conflict but I hope Collabora and Nix resolve it	14:51
X-Fade	RST38h: Well you can't upload conflicts as those won't build on the builder. So perhaps..	14:52
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thopiekar	could you please check out this thread on iTT:	15:01
thopiekar	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=232020#post232020	15:01
thopiekar	i've got some problems setting up an rfcomm connection..	15:01
thopiekar	thanks and cu l8er	15:01
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thux	Stskeeps: gnome-terminal didnt open browser?	15:04
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Stskeeps	thux: i'm sorry, i don't get you? maybe there's no browser installed :P	15:12
thux	icexeasel is	15:13
thux	weasel	15:13
Stskeeps	then write iceweasel in terminal?	15:14
Stskeeps	it might take a while to startup :P	15:14
thux	usually gnome-terminal opens link from irc	15:14
thux	but deblet doesnt	15:15
thux	when you do irc with terminal and somebody insert http link	15:16
thux	klik link browser opens	15:17
johnx	do you have the correct browser selected in the preferences?	15:18
thux	i check	15:19
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thux	johnx: that helped thanx	15:23
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AStorm	kudos to Canola team for finally adding back Ogg support in 10-beta2 :)	16:11
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, Diablo not lookin' so bad anymore? ;)	16:12
GeneralAntilles	dneary, ping.	16:13
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AStorm	GeneralAntilles: yeah, almost looking good	16:15
AStorm	now, we need maemopad++ and non-broken xournal	16:15
GeneralAntilles	lardman\|lunch, ping.	16:16
AStorm	I'd actually rather extend xournal with basic tree note manager :)	16:16
AStorm	and a few other minor features	16:16
X-Fade	AStorm: Maemopad+ is in Extras now.	16:16
X-Fade	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemopadplus/	16:16
AStorm	good :)	16:17
AStorm	still, broken xournal is in extras-deve	16:17
AStorm	*-devel	16:17
AStorm	crashy to hell	16:17
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dneary	GeneralAntilles: Here	16:17
dneary	But have to go see the accountant in about 15 minutes	16:18
GeneralAntilles	dneary, whenever you get time, can you look over my lists for killing the old wiki?	16:18
GeneralAntilles	I reviewed the pages, and put together a list of redirects and a list of salvageable stuff.	16:18
GeneralAntilles	I need some more people to eyeball it, though.	16:18
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lopz	hola	16:19
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AStorm	xournal has much more mature editing tools, while maemopad+ has the nice tree note manager and text notes	16:20
dneary	GeneralAntilles: Pointer?	16:20
AStorm	also, xournal has pdf support	16:20
dneary	Is this wikireorg in the old wiki, or a page in the new wiki that I haven't been watching?	16:20
AStorm	so... :)	16:21
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Kill_the_old_wiki	16:21
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GeneralAntilles	I wasn't as methodical as I should have been putting together the redirect list, so I may have missed some.	16:22
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AStorm	hmmh	16:26
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AStorm	I'm getting "Unable to read socket" in pidgin	16:26
AStorm	with GaduGadu transport	16:26
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AStorm	while my pidgin on laptop works all right	16:26
AStorm	same 2.5.1 version	16:27
AStorm	maybe the difference is that mine uses gnutls	16:27
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dneary	GeneralAntilles: OK - looks like a good start!	16:31
GeneralAntilles	dneary, after the list is made, we just need to kill it and put the redirects in.	16:31
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dneary	There should definitely be a pointer to wikireorg, since that has a list of the pages we moved before.	16:31
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dneary	Oh! There it is, righht at the top	16:32
dneary	Sorry	16:32
dneary	I didn't think "old wiki" would link to that page	16:32
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GeneralAntilles	It could probably be more prominent, but I was being lazy. ;)	16:33
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RST38h	Weird: apparently cellphones are still stolen and resold around here	16:59
RST38h	One would think that IMEIs make this kind of crime a complete deadend	17:00
johnx	RST38h, did you see the awesome iphone scam?	17:00
RST38h	oh yes	17:00
johnx	that's full of win	17:00
RST38h	and I actually suspect that it is a chinese-made toy they are using	17:00
johnx	heh...but in China they make real iphones :P	17:01
RST38h	they will make it as real as you are ready to pay =)	17:01
RST38h	but iphones are actually going out of fashion: the public eagerly awaits 5800 and HTC Touch HD =)	17:02
johnx	going out of fashion among geeks maybe	17:02
johnx	I mean the razr v3 is still the most sold phone in the US...	17:02
RST38h	johnx: it is a bit different here. more like Japan than like USA	17:03
* Stskeeps is seeing more and more ipod touch'es though		17:03
johnx	heh...iphone isn't going out of style here either, among normal people. try again	17:03
RST38h	johnx: dumb-like-a-stump blondes with ultra expensive smartphones like N95 etc	17:03
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Stskeeps	people are really upset about iphone + teleproviders here, .. the 3g net is simply not up to par	17:03
RST38h	johnx: apparently, people who have enough money to eat but not enough money to buy cars consider cell phones the next available expression of social status	17:04
Stskeeps	i would actually prefer a n810w here, the range is quite good in this area :P	17:04
RST38h	johnx: But this also means they have to change cell phones often :)	17:05
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johnx	RST38h, two factors here: everyone is in love with the ipod (enthralled is more accurate) and everyone plays cell phone games or surfs the inet on their phone, hence the iphone is going like mad	17:06
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RST38h	johnx: yea, those two would make it a killer gadget	17:06
RST38h	although gaming is somewhat limited on iphone	17:07
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johnx	RST38h, not serious gaming, just things to pass the time on a 1 hour commute on a crowded train	17:07
RST38h	johnx: I always said that $20/gallon gas will make smartphones mighty popular in US ;)	17:08
johnx	no public transportation infrastructure to speak of though	17:08
thux	is iphone 3d hardware accelerated?	17:08
RST38h	otherwise, poor americans just don't have time to play with their phones	17:08
RST38h	yes	17:08
RST38h	johnx: Well, bus network is really easy to roll out	17:08
RST38h	johnx: And I am pretty sure that under the right management Amtrak will cost like a bus, not like an airplane	17:09
johnx	RST38h, we'll see I guess. it was shrinking over the last few years though in the seattle area	17:09
RST38h	johnx: same everywhere	17:09
johnx	RST38h, amtrak doesn't go anywhere that people need day-to-day	17:09
RST38h	although at the east coast, chinese have built several bus lines of their own	17:09
RST38h	johnx: but it does - it connects dc, baltimore, nyc, and boston	17:10
GeneralAntilles	I'd love to take a train back home.	17:10
RST38h	johnx: that covers a lot of places where people go to work	17:10
Stskeeps	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zBnwqHjQNA <- i kinda want one	17:10
johnx	RST38h, can you actually use it to commute though?	17:10
GeneralAntilles	There's apparently a track and stations, I can't figure out if it's possible to actually ride it, though.	17:10
RST38h	johnx: my dad does	17:11
johnx	RST38h, terrifying! I never knew... O_o	17:11
RST38h	johnx: it is either amrtak or driving and parking in DC	17:11
johnx	I heard they want to up the security to airport levels though...	17:11
RST38h	johnx: and believe me, driving and parking in DC during the rush hour is way more terrifying and more expensive too	17:11
RST38h	if they do, they will lose lots of business travelers	17:12
johnx	RST38h, yeah, I know. been there, done that	17:12
johnx	I wonder if amtrak actually does "commuter" service in seattle->everett	17:12
thux	i would like to have nvidia gpu and ppc phone with linux	17:14
RST38h	johnx: it may but may cost like an airplane ticket too	17:14
johnx	talk to nvidia, they're not offering linux support for their embedded GPUs it appears	17:14
johnx	also, why PPC instead of ARM?	17:15
RST38h	thux: would you like a cooling system with that?	17:15
glass_	g5 hotpocket	17:15
thux	i got ppc ipaq was much better than omap ipaq	17:15
RST38h	you do not understand what you are talking about	17:16
johnx	thux, link to the ppc ipaq, please? I'm interested :)	17:16
RST38h	"ppc ipaq" = iPaq running PocketPC (WinCE for PDAs)	17:16
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glass_	ppc in this case = pocketpc? and not the cpu arch....	17:17
RST38h	the chip inside ipaq is an Intel XScale ARM chip	17:17
thux	no powerpc	17:17
glass_	thux: link	17:17
glass_	some url to it	17:17
RST38h	Now, "ppc phone with linux" is an oxymoron, as you probably understand now	17:17
thux	i don't have link	17:17
RST38h	It is either PocketPC or Linux, choose one	17:17
GeneralAntilles	lol	17:18
thux	ppc cpu familiat linux	17:18
glass_	thux: i'm failing to google powerpc ipaq. so. link or it's bullshit	17:18
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johnx	thux, I've been following the ipaq line for about 10 years, and they've always based them on ARM processors. I'm not sure if they ever used an OMAP, but I'm pretty sure it was mostly strongARM, then xscale	17:19
RST38h	thux: there were no ppc cpus in ipaqs	17:19
RST38h	thux: if you think there were, provide us with a url	17:19
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glass_	does wince even run on powerpc?	17:20
GeneralAntilles	Somehow I doubt it.	17:20
johnx	I think it does	17:20
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GeneralAntilles	Maybe we could run some 360 games on it, though. ;)	17:21
RST38h	Last time I checked, WinCE supported MIPS and ARM	17:21
RST38h	WinNT ran on PowerPC and Alha before, but Microsoft killed both ports long time ago	17:22
RST38h	s/Alha/Alpha/	17:22
infobot	RST38h meant: WinNT ran on PowerPC and Alpha before, but Microsoft killed both ports long time ago	17:22
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Stskeeps	johnx: what's your view regarding what things need polishing in deblet currently?	17:22
Stskeeps	system level wise	17:22
johnx	Stskeeps, real system level? or user facing control of system level stuff?	17:22
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Stskeeps	well things that may not work so well, - beneath the user interface i guess	17:23
Stskeeps	we should look into wifipowersave setting when not connected	17:24
johnx	yes, and more power saving stuff. figure out what's taking CPU cycles while idle	17:24
johnx	BTW, xscreensaver runs while the screen is blank :)	17:24
johnx	by default	17:24
Stskeeps	yeah, i found out by accident	17:25
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Stskeeps	i had some s2ram and it returned and had a weirdass display on	17:25
Stskeeps	and wondered.. and realized it was a screensaver	17:25
johnx	heh...I just plugged it into power once and saw it	17:25
johnx	it was really pretty on such a high res screen :)	17:25
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johnx	but also really warm	17:25
Stskeeps	yeah, nit-env-lxde needs a loving hand	17:26
Stskeeps	:P	17:26
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RST38h	Hehehehe: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/10/08/nyc_national_debt_clock_runs_out_of_digits/	17:26
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Stskeeps	johnx: new n-m will have ppp support btw	17:30
Stskeeps	compiled some packages	17:31
Stskeeps	johnx: also i was pondering if we should make cron use retu wakeup or the likes maybe	17:32
johnx	so we can use s2ram?	17:32
Stskeeps	well also saving power	17:32
Stskeeps	and maybe s2ram too i guess	17:32
Stskeeps	i used s2ram in ireland, worked decently but had some deadly encounters with a non-PSM wifi that killed my power	17:33
Stskeeps	but then again i didn't play any sounds (dsp should have problems)	17:33
Stskeeps	should we maybe consider removing cron package since we don't really need it for now, i dunno :P	17:34
johnx	hmm, does it really kill the battery?	17:34
johnx	it should only wake up once a minute	17:34
johnx	or is it constantly running a timer?	17:35
Stskeeps	good question	17:35
Stskeeps	lemme see code	17:35
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johnx	I ran it on os2007 without ill effects I believe	17:36
johnx	it certainly didn't have a huge impact	17:36
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Stskeeps	well i had problem mine went to sleep so it missed the cron wakeups	17:37
Stskeeps	so it didn't do its job	17:37
Stskeeps	.. could always port maemo's alarmd	17:38
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Stskeeps	johnx: wakes up every minute, reads its databases..	17:40
johnx	that shouldn't be bad I think	17:40
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Stskeeps	i wish we had some way of determing what swallows power	17:41
johnx	powertop :)	17:41
johnx	need an oprofile kernel and some other debug thing as well	17:41
Stskeeps	nod	17:41
qwerty12	CONFIG_TIMER_STATS (I think), doesn't like the wifi last time I tried	17:41
johnx	qwerty12, did you recompile the wifi driver?	17:42
qwerty12	johnx: Hmm, good point, I didn't. umac or cx3110x?	17:42
qwerty12	out of question :)	17:42
johnx	cx3110x I mean	17:42
Stskeeps	then again if we mess up the wifi we can still analyze on the system itself	17:43
johnx	qwerty12, was it just CONFIG_TIMER_STATS or was there something else?	17:43
* johnx might have made up the oprofile bit...		17:44
Stskeeps	johnx: nokia provides oprofile kernels	17:44
qwerty12	johnx: just that for powertop. The other options were not present or already activated	17:44
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Stskeeps	johnx: also i'm not sure if it's a problem we use a system compiled not optimally for our processor	17:46
Stskeeps	(jesus, my language is bad today.	17:46
GeneralAntilles	Probably doesn't help.	17:47
johnx	it is a problem I think sighs	17:47
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GeneralAntilles	You could always recompile for armv6 and see. g	17:47
johnx	but I'm not sure what to do about it, short of putting effort into angstrom or mamona instead	17:47
GeneralAntilles	Ublet	17:47
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: that's true, but it actually misses some things that are kinda basic for a sane system :P	17:48
johnx	>:\|	17:48
GeneralAntilles	Oh?	17:48
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: well bits and pieces around, atleast in the newest versions, that aren't complete, so many of the basic metapackages aren't installable	17:49
* GeneralAntilles doesn't really know anything about Ubuntu from Mojo other than that it's available for armv6		17:49
johnx	most of it is available	17:49
johnx	lots of compiling...lots of native compiling	17:50
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Stskeeps	i guess we can find packages that are intensive and compile some of them for arm and prioritize them or something	17:51
Stskeeps	armv6	17:51
johnx	you have a beagleboard coming, right?	17:52
Stskeeps	got one but have serial issues atm	17:52
johnx	well, once it's up can find a good use for its spare cycles...	17:53
Stskeeps	hehe	17:53
johnx	hey, I'll pitch in with my pandora when it comes	17:53
GeneralAntilles	lol	17:54
GeneralAntilles	I think we should convince tekojo to get a cluster for maemo.org. ;)	17:54
qwerty12	But I've grown fond of the 770's that host maemo.org	17:55
GeneralAntilles	For the autobuilder	17:56
RST38h	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3519 has finally got attention	17:56
qwerty12	My bad :). That would be a nice idea actually :)	17:56
RST38h	Rejoice!	17:56
GeneralAntilles	I really wish they had a price on the overo.	17:56
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, can you attach the relevant patches?	17:57
qwerty12	http://sse2.net/rotate/Updated_blizzard_rotation_support_v2.diff & http://labs.vivi.eng.br/blog/rotation-patches/adding-support-to-xrandr-on-xomap.patch to save time	17:57
RST38h	attaching	17:58
RST38h	They are already attached there so no need to do it again	17:58
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GeneralAntilles	Linking from a comment is not an attachment. ;)	17:59
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RST38h	oh ok	18:00
Stskeeps	what arm version was 770?	18:00
qwerty12	v5 iirc	18:00
Stskeeps	k	18:00
GeneralAntilles	armv5	18:00
GeneralAntilles	It was an ARM9	18:00
juergbi	Jaffa: i'd like to update the vala and libgee packages, get them into extras, and keep them maintained. do you think it makes more sense to do this via mud or shall i just create a garage project?	18:04
RST38h	The About box in the latest Gnumeric is hilarious	18:05
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mauku/	18:10
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: You knew about that, right? :)	18:10
GeneralAntilles	When did they open it?	18:11
GeneralAntilles	Or was I just misremembering? :\	18:11
X-Fade	Registered: 2007-10-10 13:34	18:11
GeneralAntilles	Hrm	18:11
GeneralAntilles	I wonder what I was thinking of.	18:11
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X-Fade	It used to be closed. But 11 months ago was the first upload of code.	18:12
lopz	hola	18:13
GeneralAntilles	Somebody needs to teach tim how to quote.	18:13
X-Fade	Oh, that reminds me. I need to ask Hendrik to upload to Extras ;)	18:13
X-Fade	*Henrik	18:14
Stskeeps	what's -vfp for generally?	18:17
Stskeeps	or is that a bad thing on tablets?	18:17
johnx	good on an n8x0, not present on a 770	18:17
Stskeeps	k	18:17
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Floating point. N8x0 like that.	18:17
X-Fade	But it kills performance on 770.	18:18
qwerty12	Stskeeps: How are you going to optimise it both for 770 and N800 at the same time?	18:18
qwerty12	Sure, 770 opts should work on N800 but you won't get the best performance	18:19
GeneralAntilles	You aren't	18:19
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johnx	the debian armel builds are probably close to optimal for the 770	18:20
GeneralAntilles	^	18:20
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Stskeeps	okay, what's the use of building thousands and thousands of packages, when you can't even do a good debootstrap package..	18:32
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Stskeeps	http://lwn.net/Articles/243939/ <- that really explains some awkward problems i've been having	18:39
qwerty12	That's a pretty shitty thing to set as default im	18:40
qwerty12	recommended to me means you should but you don't strictly have to	18:40
Stskeeps	yes	18:41
* Stskeeps passes on the crackpipe he just got passed from the apt developers		18:41
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	18:41
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johnx	I'm mixed on the recommends thing	18:43
johnx	it usually means this package will start but not really work unless you do this	18:43
johnx	or it should with suggests being "you might also want this"	18:44
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* Stskeeps tries a nit-env-lxde without recommends		18:45
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darx	hi, how can i use n800 as a graphics tablet for a desktop computer?	18:46
darx	is there a way to forward mouse events from x?	18:46
darx	or something like that?	18:46
GeneralAntilles	vnc?	18:46
darx	the mouse actions should be precise.	18:47
darx	my main motive to be able to draw diagrams and stuff	18:47
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Stskeeps	considered using xournal for sketching instead? i guess you can make a program that translates pressure, x, and y in some way	18:48
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darx	Stskeeps: yes.. i do have xournal.	18:49
darx	how may i get started suppose i'm willing to write an app?	18:49
Stskeeps	python's a good start	18:49
Stskeeps	:P	18:50
darx	i've some basic programming skills.	18:50
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darx	i mean the documentation and stuff	18:50
qwerty12	darx: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/	18:50
darx	thanks	18:51
darx	is n800 diablo or chinook?	18:52
johnx	those are just different software versions	18:53
johnx	it depends on which one you installed	18:53
darx	OS2008	18:54
johnx	they are two versions of os2008	18:54
darx	2.6.21-omap1	18:54
johnx	just look in the about box in control panel	18:55
johnx	they both use the same kernel	18:55
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	18:55
johnx	and really, you should try vnc before deciding it's not precise enough	18:55
hrw	same kernel realse but different revisions	18:55
hrw	2.6.21-omap1 from chinook != 2.6.21-omap1 from latest diablo	18:55
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johnx	sorry for oversimplifying, it won't happen again	18:56
darx	4.2008.36-5 :-D	18:56
johnx	diablo :)	18:56
darx	cool	18:56
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lcuk	stskeeps, using python for a graphical app is just painful	19:16
lcuk	that should get you publically flogged for even suggesting it ;)	19:16
Stskeeps	sorry :P	19:17
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lcuk	having said that, i did v0.00000000000000000000001 of liqbase sketching in python, and when i swirled my mouse around got a really cool diamond spirograph effect	19:17
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GeneralAntilles	Hrm, rotation for Fremantle.	19:19
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, shouldnt that be a core baseline feature anyway, and even if not can be done by any client app on the fly with a texture and a couple of triangles	19:20
GeneralAntilles	Hrm?	19:20
johnx	I don't think everything will be rendering to clutter...	19:21
crashanddie	if the real processing is done with optimised code, say C or even assembly, wouldn't python be forgiveable?	19:21
lcuk	well if you are rendering a 3d surface does it care whether up is up or not	19:21
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johnx	lcuk, that assumes that everything will be rendered in GL, right?	19:22
lcuk	johnx, it might not all come from clutter, but wont it be a composited desktop env - basically everything should come through 3d?	19:22
johnx	lcuk, I don't think that's decided yet	19:22
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johnx	though doing it with compositing at the wm level would be more flexible than at the widget level in terms of including older tablets...	19:23
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lcuk	johnx, if we are stepping between 2d and 3d wont we have a visual stutter as screenmode changes and some apps needing 3d windows will have problems etc	19:23
derf	crashanddie: On an embedded device the real problem is the 10 MB of libraries and interpreter you need to load to execute your 100 line progam.	19:24
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johnx	lcuk, uhm, no?	19:24
crashanddie	derf, I never really python, I maybe typed 10 lines in in my whole life	19:24
derf	"Your" is of course figurative.	19:24
Savago	Good morning. Anyone known if qt4 for maemo has an IRC channel?	19:24
crashanddie	derf, of course, I just wanted to point I have no idea about the real performance of python, even when processing is done by a real language	19:25
johnx	lcuk, GL in an X11 window doesn't require a mode change or anything like that.	19:25
lcuk	johnx, if my app uses just a single nice widget but the rest is just standard, its gonna be disjointed and jarring and the underlying interface ppl will have to write 2 sets of things for 2d and 3d	19:25
lcuk	no, but gl in a window is not the same as whats offered by qt widgets	19:26
johnx	liqbase and canola are already different from the core widget set. doesn't really seem that jarring to me I guess	19:26
derf	I just have to laugh that Nokia spent all this effort to use things like busybox to save a few KB of disk space and shave a second or two off boot times, and the first thing their users do is say, "Let's put Python on it!"	19:27
Savago	I'm getting the dreaded "qemu: uncaught target signal 11" when calling qmake inside of scratchbox.	19:27
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: mind if i send in a patch for adv-backlight for loosing libdsme dependancy?	19:27
lcuk	yes but if liqbase and canola want to sit pretty inside the existing frameworks then it should be completely transparent changeover	19:27
rm_you	Stskeeps: hrm	19:27
lcuk	anyway, hometime, back shortly	19:27
rm_you	Stskeeps: we'll look at whatever patches you send it	19:27
rm_you	*send in	19:27
Stskeeps	rm_you: cos the libdsme code is a wrapper over a unix socket connect and .. send().	19:28
Stskeeps	:P	19:28
rm_you	as long as it doesn't break stuff, we should be ok :P	19:28
rm_you	brb shower	19:28
Stskeeps	rm_you: saw the deblet adv-backlight?	19:28
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rm_you	no	19:29
rm_you	but brb	19:29
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VDVsx	Hi everyone, in the maemo OS exist any system call to turn on and off the bluetooth adapter ?	19:31
Stskeeps	rm_you: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/hildlet6.png when you're back from shower	19:32
qwerty12	VDVsx: Sure, dbus can do it. I can't remember the exact dbus-send command but switchonbt has it in it's scripts	19:32
VDVsx	qwerty12, thanks, I gonna take a look in the maemo d-bus docs	19:33
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GeneralAntilles	derf, Nokia didn't put Python on the tablets.	19:36
GeneralAntilles	It isn't officially supported. . . .	19:36
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derf	GeneralAntilles: I never said they did.	19:36
yacoob	so, my poor tablet is now in evil hands of nokia support	19:38
yacoob	we'll see whether they can fix it.	19:38
qwerty12	yacoob: What happened?	19:38
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yacoob	qwerty12, it's in the backlog, two nights back. In short: it has developed some condition, that caused it to instantly power off the moment I close battery cover.	19:39
yacoob	Or slide/close keyboard. Or squeeze. Or close the stand.	19:39
qwerty12	Ouch >.<	19:39
yacoob	generally, some physical impact -> tablet goes off	19:39
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yacoob	qwerty12, yeah, I've been suspecting the funny latch on the battery cover, and I've tried to play with it. Some success (I was able to close the battery cover :) but didn't get to the point where it wouldn't power off after some random pokes...	19:41
GeneralAntilles	Ah, "their users"	19:41
GeneralAntilles	misread, nevermind.	19:41
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GeneralAntilles	Where in the world did they get "As the mystery deepens, Max is forced to battle enemies beyond the natural world and face an unthinkable betrayal." from Max Payne? <_<	19:45
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johnx	from their butts	19:45
rm_you	Stskeeps: coolbeans	19:45
rm_you	Stskeeps: submit your patch, i'll review it, and it'll probably get pushed next minor update (when i fix the volume mute bug)	19:46
GeneralAntilles	johnx, apparently.	19:46
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, no, push the volume bug update, then push the Deblet patch AFTER. :P	19:47
rm_you	roflcaekz	19:47
GeneralAntilles	Stats whoring, stats whoring, stats whoring.	19:47
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: you have a point :P	19:47
rm_you	i'll make sure to wait a couple weeks inbetween as well :P	19:47
rm_you	Stskeeps: k, submit your patch, i'll build and release like, tonight :P	19:47
GeneralAntilles	But make sure you introduce some minor cosmetic bug	19:48
rm_you	lol	19:48
rm_you	I try not to INTRODUCE bugs, even for stats whoring :P	19:48
Stskeeps	rm_you: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/advback-dsmeless.patch , but i haven't had a chance to test it (my tablet is reinstalling deblet..), and please note the comment in the _init since you probably test in scratchbox, but i tested it dpkg-buildpackage's	19:52
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Jaffa	juergbi: it makes no sense to me to have a garage project which'd just be build scripts or patches - or, at worst case - a fork. mud's gotta be better for maintaining the build scripts.	19:57
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juergbi	Jaffa: ok, good :) i should be following the online howtos to see how to keep the packages uptodate, right?	19:58
Stskeeps	rm_you: and that isn't a deblet patch, it's just getting away from having to hax libdsme :P	19:58
Stskeeps	rm_you: but it certainly helps me, i really don't want to add libdsme of all things to deblet	19:58
rm_you	yeah	20:02
rm_you	that's fine	20:02
rm_you	just... could you actually test it first? :P	20:02
Stskeeps	sure, when i'm done debootstrapping	20:02
Stskeeps	:P	20:02
rm_you	:)	20:02
Jaffa	juergbi: yeah - basically you can point a mud XML file at subversion or a release tarball, add a patch to debian/... to pull in the .vapi files and it's good to go. There're ones already there (sub-optimal) as a starting point. Feel free to ask on the mud-builder-users@garage.maemo.org list for help	20:03
rm_you	k i have class and work now, but i'll check it out tonight	20:03
rm_you	post it via garage?	20:03
rm_you	after testing	20:03
juergbi	Jaffa: ok, thx, will do this asap	20:03
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Jaffa	juergbi: cool	20:04
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Jaffa	[6~/who	20:18
Stskeeps	neat smiley	20:19
Stskeeps	:P	20:19
lcuk	jaffa, sneezing fit or cat on pooter?	20:19
Jaffa	Eager to get home :)	20:19
lcuk	heh	20:19
X-Fade	Jaffa: If you have a few minutes ;)	20:20
Stskeeps	johnx: nit-env-lxde is 410 without recommends	20:20
Stskeeps	(mb)	20:20
johnx	how much with recommends?	20:20
* johnx has been playing with a pure matchbox-session		20:20
* Stskeeps wonders		20:21
Stskeeps	sec	20:21
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Stskeeps	johnx: http://rafb.net/p/wg42cr88.html	20:23
johnx	some of those need to be suggests	20:24
Stskeeps	yeah	20:24
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Stskeeps	rm_you: patch works fine	20:27
bongo	I can't install pluthon with eclipse ganymede. is there a known problem?	20:27
solmumaha	any linux/os x users want to test my video streaming app?	20:28
Stskeeps	rm_you: added to garage	20:29
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rm_you	kk will look tonight if i have time	20:31
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pupnik810	remoo :)	20:38
solmumaha	evening pupnik810	20:38
pupnik810	how goes it	20:38
pupnik810	solmumaha,	20:38
solmumaha	fine, looking for testers for knots	20:39
pupnik810	still way impressed about the latest speedup in vgba	20:39
pupnik810	i will be back and can test next thurs-fri	20:40
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pupnik810	is debian sid vlc ok now?	20:40
GAN800	we want more pupnik. :P	20:40
solmumaha	nice, i may have german translation by then	20:40
pupnik810	yeah dosbox neeeds update	20:40
solmumaha	if you can find 0.9.3, it should do fine	20:40
pupnik810	oh nand somebody wrote me to ask for duke3d sources.. if you can tar them by next nweek that would be good	20:41
pupnik810	ok	20:41
solmumaha	sure	20:41
pupnik810	hi GAN800	20:41
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solmumaha	would be nice if someone could debianize them and upload to extras	20:42
pupnik810	yes extras is where i want to go now	20:42
GAN800	I should poke some people about the community packaging team.	20:43
solmumaha	GAN800: please do, it should be good enough for extras	20:43
pupnik810	thankless work	20:44
GAN800	Karma points	20:45
pupnik810	nice	20:45
solmumaha	i'd gladly put rubybox to extras too if someone could convince alterego to put ruby into extras	20:45
pupnik810	heh	20:45
GAN800	Haven't seen him in months. :(	20:46
solmumaha	he's here at freenode	20:46
solmumaha	and still has the sources	20:47
GAN800	Is he now?	20:47
solmumaha	ah, not atm	20:47
GAN800	Wonder why he stopped coming here	20:47
pupnik810	school	20:47
solmumaha	work he said	20:47
pupnik810	?	20:47
pupnik810	oh	20:47
solmumaha	i talked to him and he wasn't too negative about it	20:47
* pupnik810 has lots to do :) ttyl1a		20:48
pupnik810	!	20:48
solmumaha	but then started ignoring me :)	20:48
pupnik810	Hehe	20:48
pupnik810	cu	20:48
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solmumaha	GAN800: you are an os x user?	20:48
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	20:48
solmumaha	tiger?	20:48
GeneralAntilles	Leopard	20:48
solmumaha	ppc?	20:48
GeneralAntilles	G5	20:49
solmumaha	wanna test my video streaming app? :)	20:49
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GeneralAntilles	Sure	20:49
solmumaha	it's pretty easy to setup in os x	20:49
solmumaha	just download VLC 0.9.3 and install it Applications	20:49
GeneralAntilles	Done. ;)	20:49
solmumaha	then the worst part :(	20:49
solmumaha	http://pupnik.de/ruby.html	20:50
solmumaha	download the 3 debs for chinook	20:50
solmumaha	can't remember the order, but i guess libruby was first	20:51
johnx	download to same dir, dpkg -i *deb :)	20:51
johnx	I always let dpkg sort 'em out	20:51
solmumaha	k, that works then, thanks :)	20:51
GeneralAntilles	I don't know where Google gets the numbers for GrandCentral	20:52
GeneralAntilles	I get the weirdest calls on that line.	20:52
GeneralAntilles	solmumaha, then?	20:55
solmumaha	pm	20:58
solmumaha	unless someone else wants to try it too	20:58
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Barnabas	hey dudes	21:11
johnx	yo	21:11
Barnabas	is there a way to set the time of the backlight to 60minutes bye xterm	21:12
johnx	sure, there's a trick with gconf to add more times to the GUI	21:12
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Barnabas	can you show me maybe?:)	21:15
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johnx	trying to dig it up, hang on a sec :)	21:15
Barnabas	it suckt when i am watch a movie and every few seconds the light turns off	21:15
Barnabas	thx:)	21:15
GeneralAntilles	~moredimmingoptions	21:16
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johnx	Barnabas, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1147	21:16
lcuk	shouldnt the backlight remain on when playing movies tohugh	21:16
lcuk	i was sure it did	21:16
johnx	it should and it usually does, except when it doesn't	21:16
lcuk	heh	21:17
Barnabas	i use mplayer....and it doesnt:) or is there a funktion in the app	21:17
lcuk	i think theres a difference or bug wiht dim vs off	21:19
lcuk	if the 2 values are set to the same i believe it remains lit	21:19
ssvb	Barnabas: what kind of device and OS do you have?	21:19
Barnabas	n770 with HE2007	21:19
GeneralAntilles	Anybody know how to fix a blank Application menu?	21:19
johnx	GeneralAntilles, happening to you or someone else?	21:20
GeneralAntilles	Me	21:20
GeneralAntilles	For the second time in two months	21:20
johnx	ls /usr/share/applications/hildon/	21:20
GeneralAntilles	After installing a package on an almost full disk	21:20
GeneralAntilles	johnx, everything you'd expect	21:20
GeneralAntilles	update-desktop-database does nothing	21:21
johnx	wonder what files it opens	21:21
johnx	look in ~/ for cache files?	21:21
johnx	actually, does update-desktop-database run as user or root?	21:21
GeneralAntilles	Hrm	21:22
GeneralAntilles	Trying to update database for directory '/usr/local/share/applications'	21:22
GeneralAntilles	Could not create cache file in directory '/usr/local/share/applications':	21:22
GeneralAntilles	Error opening directory '/usr/local/share/applications': No such file or directory	21:22
johnx	huh	21:23
johnx	pointed to the wrong place	21:23
johnx	I wonder what freaked it out	21:23
GeneralAntilles	Could not create cache file in directory '/usr/share/applications': Permission denied	21:23
GeneralAntilles	No directories in update-desktop-database search path could be processed and updated.	21:23
GeneralAntilles	As user	21:23
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ssvb	Barnabas: that's unsupported version of OS unfortunately	21:25
GeneralAntilles	Hrm, permission denied on /usr/share/applications too.	21:25
johnx	GeneralAntilles, yeah, well being root would help of course :P	21:25
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Barnabas	ssvb:..what does that mean for me?	21:25
GeneralAntilles	johnx, that was as root.	21:25
GeneralAntilles	drwxr-xr-x 7 1000 1000 1024 Oct 10 14:22 applications	21:25
GeneralAntilles	Or maybe not.	21:26
johnx	GeneralAntilles, how the heck did that happen	21:26
Barnabas	ssvb:..what does that mean for me?	21:27
ssvb	Barnabas: I heared that downgrading mplayer to version mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.24.n770_armel.deb may help	21:27
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johnx	anyways, now it's really time for me to sleep	21:28
johnx	good luck GeneralAntilles	21:28
Barnabas	mhh is this still worked fine with canola youtube plugin?	21:28
GeneralAntilles	johnx, damn you! :P	21:28
johnx	GeneralAntilles, fix the permissions on applications/	21:29
johnx	should be root:root	21:29
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* GeneralAntilles sighs.		21:33
GeneralAntilles	No luck	21:33
ssvb	Barnabas: don't know, it is up to you to try	21:33
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lardman	evening all	21:34
* GeneralAntilles really doesn't want to have to reclone. . . .		21:36
johnx	GeneralAntilles, ok, fixed permissions, reran that update as root? right? no luck still?	21:36
GeneralAntilles	Still no luck	21:37
johnx	and the update works ok now that you're root?	21:38
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, no evidence of failure.	21:38
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johnx	hmm, look at the permissions for things under applications/	21:38
johnx	do they look sane?	21:39
GeneralAntilles	-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2355 Oct 10 01:58 defaults.list	21:40
johnx	s/?/to you?/	21:40
infobot	johnx meant: do they look saneto you?	21:40
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GeneralAntilles	Should .desktops have +x?	21:40
johnx	nah	21:40
johnx	rw-r-r for .desktops	21:41
GeneralAntilles	Then yes	21:41
johnx	nothing else owned by random users?	21:41
GeneralAntilles	Nope	21:42
yerga	GeneralAntilles, /home/user/.osso/menus/applications.menu is blank?	21:42
GeneralAntilles	Yes	21:43
yerga	try removing it (backup to somewhere), and running update-desktop-database	21:43
GeneralAntilles	It doesn't recreate it.	21:44
yerga	ok	21:45
yerga	I failed ;)	21:45
GeneralAntilles	No component for the application menu?	21:47
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Barnabas	btw a little notice....the upgrade fix the problem with the backlight;) thx guys	21:47
RST38h	General: No	21:48
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RST38h	General: Still here?	21:50
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	21:51
RST38h	cat /usr/share/applications/hildon-navigator/applications-menu.desktop	21:51
RST38h	please	21:51
GeneralAntilles	http://slexy.org/view/s2ek6z7QYQ	21:52
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RST38h	ls -l /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/libhd-applications-menu-settings.so please	21:53
GeneralAntilles	-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 20908 Aug 11 04:04 libhd-applications-menu-settings.so	21:55
RST38h	all righty...	21:55
RST38h	ls -l /usr/share/menu	21:57
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GeneralAntilles	http://slexy.org/view/s20C58w0nd	21:57
yerga	GeneralAntilles, cp /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu /home/user/.osso/menus/ ?	21:58
GeneralAntilles	yerga, that did it.	21:58
RST38h	Heh	21:59
GeneralAntilles	Now, what's going to happen the next time it's updated?	21:59
lardman	slightly, ot how can I tell the size of a vorbis file's comments?	21:59
yerga	ok, with the extras applications too?	21:59
yerga	GeneralAntilles, test it installing something	21:59
GeneralAntilles	yerga, all 3rd-party applications are now in Extras.	21:59
* Stskeeps notes to himself -not- to touch the xscreenserver lock button..		21:59
yerga	it's better than nothing ;)	22:00
yerga	GeneralAntilles, some reason why it got corrupted?	22:00
GeneralAntilles	Moving stuff around in Panels works fine.	22:00
GeneralAntilles	yerga, package install on a very full fs.	22:01
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RST38h	Anybody willing to bet on DOW hitting 8999 today? =)	22:01
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yacoob	anyone tested new maemo mapper?	22:03
RST38h	yep. works.	22:03
yacoob	what's new there? can't test for myself at the moment.	22:03
baddu	hi again lardman: i tried your sharedmem program, if i specify the location of the mmapped buffer with PRAGMA it doesn't load it to the dsp	22:03
RST38h	I did not notice anything specific	22:05
lcuk	didnt i read something about maemo mapper losing its icon	22:05
RST38h	still there for me	22:06
lardman	baddu: do you have some code I could look at?	22:06
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baddu	lardman: it was your sharedmem test http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/shared_memory_test/	22:06
RST38h	maemo.org has completely died, it seems...	22:06
gregorovius	now that you say, I installed the maemo-mapper update and now it's not in my menu anymore	22:06
Stskeeps	johnx: scaringily, the no-recommends broke nm-applet O_o	22:06
yacoob	two people reported that happening on n810.pl too (maemo)	22:07
yacoob	(maemo mapper, that is :)	22:07
RST38h	gregor: maybe it does not update caches?	22:07
lcuk	gregorovius, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=232180 others are having similar	22:07
RST38h	then a reboot may fix it	22:07
lcuk	its something to do with failing postinst	22:07
baddu	but i don't know how our environment differs. the problem seems to be that if i use own lcf-file it seems to ignore that and claims that it tries to put the stuff to DARAM (and no space left)	22:07
lcuk	apparantly	22:07
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, bugzilla's working fine. :P	22:08
GeneralAntilles	As is the wiki	22:08
lardman	baddu: do you use the .cmd file?	22:08
RST38h	but not the downloads/	22:08
gregorovius	thanks lcuk, I'll just wait for it to get figured out	22:08
lcuk	sensible	22:08
RST38h	and I am not gonna file ANOTHER bug on non-working maemo.org	22:08
lardman	baddu: if dsp_dld doesn't know the memory region it tries to place it in DARAM, then SARAM	22:08
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, we're in a server transition period, so there's no point.	22:09
lcuk	gregorovius, though im sure theres some 400 line incantation you could try manually with the OSK ;)	22:09
yacoob	judging from the changelog, it's only bugfixes	22:09
baddu	lardman: yes, as linker parameter. but the loader seems to ignore that. so the information should be in that module.o file, am i right?	22:09
lardman	no, dsp_dld also looks for a linker command file with the same name as the module + a .cmd extension	22:10
lardman	e.g. shared_mem.o + shared_mem.cmd	22:10
baddu	thats very valuable information :)	22:10
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baddu	thanks, i thought that i used that already with no help but i must be wrong	22:11
lardman	make sure you give the cmd file name in the avs_kernel.conf file (something like that!)	22:11
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lardman	/lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf	22:12
lardman	close ;)	22:12
GeneralAntilles	Somebody needs to beat up the Nokia folks still using 'maemo'.	22:14
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baddu	ok, in the dsp_dld_avs.conf there is no mention about other module's cmd files?	22:14
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, ? i thought nokia still owned maemo, we just had maemo.org (its like a bad divorce)	22:15
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GeneralAntilles	lcuk. . . .	22:16
lardman	baddu: are you using a standard Maemo installation?	22:16
GeneralAntilles	It's "Maemo"	22:16
baddu	lardman: yep	22:16
lardman	baddu: the last column should be full of paths to .cmd files	22:16
lcuk	not according to the "about product" screen on my N810 its not	22:17
lcuk	"Internet Tablet OS: maemo Linux based OS2008"	22:17
baddu	lardman: you're right, once again :) it's because of this vi and xterm (or the user of them)	22:17
GeneralAntilles	It's deprecated and incorrect	22:17
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GeneralAntilles	I filed a bug about it	22:17
lardman	baddu: no worries, been there done that, cursed alot ;)	22:17
GeneralAntilles	It'll be fixed soon enough.	22:17
* lcuk wonders why peoplecare about case sensitivity		22:18
GeneralAntilles	~brand	22:18
GeneralAntilles	It's a grammar thing	22:18
GeneralAntilles	It's a proper noune	22:18
GeneralAntilles	https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand	22:18
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lardman	lcuk: perhapsitsalsobecauseifyoustartlosingcasesensitivityitsonlyashortsteptoothergrammaticalissues?	22:18
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lardman	wow that was hard to type without using space :)	22:19
lcuk	soundsreasonablelardman^wasjustwonderingwhypeoplecaredsomuch	22:19
lardman	:)	22:19
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derf	GeneralAntilles was compiled with -pendatic. It's why he has the job he has.	22:21
GAN800	-asshole, too!	22:22
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derf	That's a feature. Girls like assholes.	22:23
derf	http://ircquotes.org/viewQuote/50	22:24
GAN800	Hehe	22:25
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* lcuk kicks itt forum software. on the front page if it says someone posted can i make it always go to the latest one instead of taking me to the point where i last read		22:39
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GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew	22:40
lcuk	not quite gen, ive still got to click on the specific page i want, the front thing which just says "active forum topics" which doesnt have real details is ideal, but i want it to always go to last post in the thread	22:43
lcuk	thanks though :)	22:43
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GAN800	Then click the last page and hit end	22:44
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solmumaha	any other adventureous willing to try my video streaming app?	22:49
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ircleuser	wheres the hash key on an apple keyboard, bloody hate macs!	22:53
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*** ircleuser is now known as JamieBennett		22:55
RST38h	Mac users do not need the hash key	22:55
JamieBennett	:)	22:56
JamieBennett	<alt> and 3 apparently	22:56
solmumaha	i do	22:56
JamieBennett	(on a UK keyboard)	22:56
GAN800	ircle sucks	22:56
GAN800	alt/opt	22:57
RST38h	Anybody ever worked with Freescale ARM11 boards?	22:57
GAN800	JamieBennett, read: you hate things you don't understand?	22:57
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lcuk	pressed too many <alt> f keys ;)	22:59
GAN800	Maybe he missed and hit cmd	22:59
RST38h	who doesn't?	22:59
GAN800	There's no alt-f4 on Mac	23:00
* RST38h quietly salivates over Freescale's 90nm ARM SoC datasheet		23:02
GAN800	ARM11 is the past	23:02
RST38h	"And all I got was that 300MHz MIPS"	23:02
RST38h	GAN: Who cares about fashion? It runs at 500+MHz, has separate 16k+16k 1st level caches and a 128k 2nd level cache	23:03
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RST38h	It is more than sufficient to do the job, past or not	23:04
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GAN800	I want that OMAP4 with lowpower DDR2	23:04
GAN800	Anybody got a time machine?	23:05
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hrw	RST38h: i.mx31/37 ones?	23:05
lcuk	i cant wait for the omap5 with neural interfacing	23:05
crashanddie	liqmind, sketching, moving the cursor just by thoughts	23:06
hrw	nokia n96 phone is ST Nomadik not omap so who knows.. maybe nokia changes provider of cpus?	23:06
crashanddie	think of an image, send it to your mate	23:06
RST38h	hrw: yep	23:06
RST38h	GAN: OMAP4 sounds sane but forget about ddr2	23:06
GeneralAntilles	http://embeddedblog.blogspot.com/2007/02/3gsm-ti-looks-at-low-power-ddr2-for.html	23:07
hrw	omap4 will use ddr7	23:07
lcuk	crashanddie, why are all your pictures blocked by google safe search	23:08
RST38h	How do MCIMX31 and MCIMX31L compare speed-wise with OMAP2 in N8x0?	23:08
lcuk	my eyes, the goggles, they do nothing	23:08
hrw	RST38h: no idea	23:08
crashanddie	oh shit, wrong nickname	23:08
hrw	RST38h: but atleast for imx you get opengl es officially	23:08
RST38h	lcuk: He is probably nude there, on top of black velvet to make it easier for google's automatic filters	23:09
RST38h	hrw: The part I am looking at does not seem to have 3D hw. It has only got VFP11	23:10
RST38h	And some Image Processing Unit with blending, inversion, and rotation features	23:11
hrw	RST38h: I hope to have imx31 hardware at home in 1-2 months	23:11
GeneralAntilles	N96 is an ARM9? :\	23:11
hrw	and then I will be able to test	23:11
hrw	GeneralAntilles: arm926 core	23:11
GeneralAntilles	Weird	23:11
hrw	GeneralAntilles: with HW h.264 decoder	23:12
hrw	and few other formats	23:12
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* GeneralAntilles wishes we could use ours.		23:12
RST38h	Ah, the 31L part has no GPU but 31 apparently does	23:12
RST38h	So N96 is more of a step back?	23:13
RST38h	hrw: Depending on how things go, I may be able to test it for you before that :)	23:13
hrw	I would not thing that n96 is step back	23:14
hrw	its Nseries so multimedia oriented. and st nomadik should give nice power for decoding	23:15
* RST38h reads up on Nomadik		23:16
RST38h	STM has got ARM11-based Nomadik parts right now	23:19
RST38h	Why did Nokia use ARM9?	23:20
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles, how can you call the hard work i've put in "cheating" ? its lateral thinking	23:25
GAN800	What I mean to say is that it's not generally applicable.	23:26
GAN800	You seemed to be suggesting that there was no issue with the controller	23:26
GAN800	but there clearly is	23:27
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lcuk	agreed in principle, but in the face of the alternative (lowering resolution and using onboard framebuffer) was probably a worse solution	23:30
lcuk	it works as it stands now, its allowed every single one of us to do lots of cool interesting stuff	23:30
lcuk	so its not a failure as such, it just doesnt perform under normal load as expected - like a ferrari with a ford engine	23:31
GAN800	Point being, whatever you've managed to achieve, the controller is a big problem causer for video playback and x	23:31
hrw	bye	23:32
GAN800	OMAP3 solves the controller issue for everybody.	23:32
lcuk	no, video playback is fine isnt it? that uses the same "cheat" i do - X11 native mode granted	23:32
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lcuk	cya hrw	23:32
RST38h	bye	23:32
hrw\|gone	GAN800: if will be used properly	23:32
lcuk	omap3 solves it better if the IVA is available	23:32
GAN800	It's limited in the amount of data you can push.	23:32
lcuk	leaving the cpu to do much more	23:32
RST38h	IVA has no direct effect on this	23:32
GAN800	hrw, how do you mean?	23:32
lcuk	IVA can decode video leaving cpu to do other things	23:32
RST38h	lcuk, IVA is an ARM7	23:33
RST38h	or ARM9 in OMAP3	23:33
lcuk	and, its specialised for decoding	23:33
lcuk	its a custom chip that i would rather was in use than sat idle	23:33
RST38h	It can't really decode video very fast. I know, I tried. So it most likely feeds DSP with data, doing MPEG stream parsing	23:33
GAN800	Whatever the decoder, you wont have the horrifying tearing issues with OMAP3.	23:33
GAN800	The Cortex will likely do a lot better with NEON optimizations.	23:34
RST38h	GAN: Oh, we will. It is very easy to create a horrifying tearing issue! =)	23:34
lcuk	RST38h, look at the current device, the cpu runs fullout trying to do everything itself whilst at least 2 ARM cores sit completely 100% idle, i really dont want a repeat	23:35
lcuk	we have been told one of those idle cores will be used, its a perfectly valid question to ask if the other one will be as well	23:35
GAN800	lcuk, that's fine, but irrelevant to the controller discussion.	23:35
GAN800	Two, actually	23:36
GAN800	The ISP will be used for the camera, I'm sure.	23:36
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lcuk	then we will get an answer in the affirmative and ill jump for joy :D	23:36
* lcuk just wants to use all the available features :)		23:37
GAN800	I don't think the IVA will really offer much	23:37
lcuk	realtime movie encoding and decode	23:37
GAN800	You're likely better off using the DSP or SIMD.	23:37
GAN800	The Cortex is a more capable decodee.	23:38
GAN800	r	23:38
RST38h	lcuk: What 2 ARM cores?	23:38
RST38h	lcuk: One is the main CPU and it is busy. The only idle one is the IVA	23:39
GAN800	PowerVR	23:39
GAN800	pressumably	23:39
RST38h	PowerVR is no ARM core	23:39
lcuk	RST38h, there are currently 4 complete arm cores inside our 2420	23:39
RST38h	lcuk: Which ones?	23:39
lcuk	its a customized convoluted core, but yes it is one	23:39
lcuk	cpu, pvr, dsp, iva	23:40
RST38h	AFAIK, PowerVR has nothing to do with ARM	23:40
lcuk	have a look closer :)	23:40
RST38h	DSP has nothing to do with ARM either	23:40
RST38h	lcuk: Wel those bastards do not let me	23:40
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RST38h	DOW 8579! Oh shit.	23:44
lcuk	damn lower than you suggested earlier	23:44
RST38h	it's crazy	23:45
derf	It's awesome is what it is.	23:45
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RST38h	I can predict stuff but can't predict crazy shit	23:46
GAN800	Do I get to fight the zombies yet?	23:46
RST38h	GAN: The first wave is homeless stock brokers	23:46
RST38h	Whatever score you make there, becomes the second wave after it rots a bit	23:47
lardman\|tv	IVA is an ARM9 on omap2 and is the DSP on omap3	23:50
lardman\|tv	just fyi	23:50
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RST38h	lardman: you mean, omap2 has ARM9+DSP and OMAP3 has just the DSP?	23:51
lardman	yes	23:51
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lardman	omap2 has arm11 main core, + arm9 iva + dsp	23:51
lardman	omap2 has cortex main core + dsp (which they call the iva)	23:51
RST38h	interesting...so they basically got rid of the iva	23:52
lardman	yes, and moved its functionality (presumably) inside the DSP	23:52
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zap	and the DSPs are cardinally different	23:56
lcuk	lardman, looking at the block diagrams its not gone	23:56
RST38h	depends	23:56
lardman	lcuk: do you have an url?	23:56
zap	omap 2xxx uses TI54xx DSP, and 3xxx uses TI6xxx; it's like comparing x86_64 to a z80	23:57
lardman	zap: yes, c55x vs c64x	23:57
RST38h	x86 i pretty similar to z80 =)	23:57
zap	yep	23:57
lardman	hmm, not that large a difference (from what I've read), but certainly significant	23:57
lcuk	sorry lardman, yes a distinct dsp as currently known isnt there, but the cores still have to be seperate	23:58
lcuk	http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12643&contentId=14649	23:58
RST38h	instruction set wise, it is almost a superset, I would say :)	23:58
GeneralAntilles	Great, Atom-guy is back on itT.	23:58
zap	ti64xx executes 8 instructions every clock	23:58
GeneralAntilles	This is after the 2nd time he said he'd never come back.	23:58
lcuk	ie powervr must operate without messing with cpu, and iva must operate without effecting the other stuff	23:58
zap	it's VLIW	23:58
RST38h	Buy him an ASUS already!	23:58
lardman	lcuk: yes, but that's as it is on the omap2 as well	23:58
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, are you seriously arguing with DSP-man about the DSP? :P	23:59
RST38h	zap: is it pipelined or just has 8 ALUs in parallel?	23:59
lcuk	yes, but on omap2, its a distinctly named and in function dsp	23:59
lcuk	http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4671&navigationId=11990&templateId=6123	23:59
zap	8 ALUs	23:59
zap	every command is 256 bits - 8 commands by 32 bits	23:59
RST38h	should make a nice mpeg decoder =)	23:59

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