IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-10-01

X-FadeI'm pretty tired, so I'm out of here.00:00
GeneralAntillesI'm designating etrunko to help you as punishment00:00
X-FadeLater.00:00
GeneralAntillesfor missing the review. ;)00:00
GeneralAntilles'night00:00
Stskeepsthe whole Maemo.org/maemo.org/maemo/Maemo discussion reminds me of a rule at the local uni fraternity for nature sciences.. if you spell the name of the fraternity without it being all uppercase and if the name is seperated in any way, you owe a box of beer to the fraternity00:00
Stskeeps:P00:00
Stskeepsadmittedly, it works00:01
GeneralAntilless/beer/patch/ and we've got a deal.00:01
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johnx_how many patches in a box?00:01
GeneralAntilles300,00000:01
GeneralAntillesSo, actually, you're indenturing yourself to Nokia every time you screw up.00:02
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I think the council should be willing to accept boxes of beer into "storage"00:02
GeneralAntillesJaffa, you know, for "safe keeping"? ;)00:02
Jaffazactly00:02
GeneralAntillesI want to see where Bundyo goes with Tear.00:03
GeneralAntillesLooks quite cool already.00:03
JaffaIndeed00:03
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JaffaHmm. I'm now arguing with myself on http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Open_Source_Proof_Points ;-)00:11
GeneralAntillesHehe00:12
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lardmannight chaps00:15
Jaffag'night00:15
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dnearynight00:18
mikkov_is the meeting log going to be in http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/ ?00:18
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, yes.00:18
GeneralAntillesWe need to give X-Fade 50 lashings first, though.00:19
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mikkov_was there some maemo.org meeting? is there a log somewhere?00:19
Luriagah, need more ram00:20
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, er?00:20
GeneralAntillesYes, it ends just a little while ago00:20
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GeneralAntillesYes, the logs will be posted to that URL.00:20
Jaffamikkov_: will be same place for the 'maemo.org redesign' meeting on Saturday00:20
lbtGeneralAntilles: Re: Open Source Proof Points.... multiboot. I and others can make the tablets boot multiple OSes to allow developers to test apps on one device in clean installs. We can do multiboot 'cos we can hack at the open script.00:21
Jaffalbt: what's the advantage of that to Nokia?00:21
GeneralAntilleslbt, excellent! Now go write that up for the wiki. ;)00:21
JaffaAh, dev testing00:21
lbtyes00:21
JaffaSorry, not paying attention00:21
GeneralAntillesJaffa, or more hardware appeal to consumers.00:21
lbtit's not really a consumer benefit though :)00:21
mavhcstupid OS update infinitely rebooted my n810, this time I had a backup though00:22
JaffaGeneralAntilles: s/consumers/very niche power users & developers/00:22
Jaffalbt: indeed00:22
GeneralAntilles"consumers" being people with money who have interest in a feature like that who will buy it.00:22
mikkov_Jaffa: thanks, I was referring to design meeting00:22
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: They've already expressed - quite rightly - they want it to be a mainstream device; if it's a choice between opening X for $Y & receiving Z additional sales; or working on killer feature A for $B and receiving kZ sales, where 'k' is large - it'll be a no-brainer.00:23
JaffaAnd companies are *great* at convincing themselves in cost-benefit analyses of the decisions they've already made being the best ones00:23
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Jaffa(cos cost/benefit is impossible - or at least very very hard - to do [for software/hardware])00:24
lbtJaffa:  your open development point is very important. What's the point of even submitting a bug, never mind a patch. It goes into the back room and that's it...00:24
Jaffalbt: aye :-(00:24
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* Jaffa hates being right sometimes ;-)00:24
lbthave there been community patches to gtk etc that got back in?00:25
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GeneralAntillesI'm inclined to blame Jaffa for the situation we're in. :P00:25
JaffaGeneralAntilles: damnit. I knew I should've never bought a 770 and instead bought a GP2X and now a Pandora ;)00:25
lbtOpenMoko....00:26
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GeneralAntillesWho are also being pretty tight-lipped about their code. . . .00:26
lbtare they?00:26
JaffaPandora are00:26
GeneralAntillesThey're not all that open software-wise for a supposedly "open" project.00:26
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JaffaSimilar to the TechCrunch tablet - "we'll be open [...] look, here's a video of some hardware booting [...] what? specs? software? shush now"00:27
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lbtAndroid... oh, wait, no...00:27
lbtanyhow - got to go; life is busy at the moment... 'night all00:29
JaffaYou want an open, Linux-running Internet Tablet? Buy a MID running Moblin or Ubuntu MID.00:29
JaffaWon't be a great tablet, but it'll be open.00:29
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* Jaffa played with one of the Aigo/Gigabyte MIDs on the moblin stall at OSiM. It's still *so* flaky and amateurish. Worse than OS2005 in places (flicking Gtk+ borders, exposing underlying themes and implementations constantly)00:30
GeneralAntillesInteresting00:31
JaffaUbuntu MID are having to put a lot of polish in now, now that they're not shipping with any devices as standard (at the moment)00:31
kpelactually i want a decent product that knows how to use memory cards and doesn't panic when the tiny internal memory doesn't have room for a massive update :P00:31
JaffaNow, what the Canonical *couldn't* say about Nokia, Canonical, Ubuntu and Maemo was *very* interesting.00:32
Jaffas/Canonical/$& Guy/00:32
infobotJaffa meant: Now, what the $& Guy *couldn't* say about Nokia, Canonical, Ubuntu and Maemo was *very* interesting.00:32
Jaffainfobot: learn regexps better, you tool00:32
GeneralAntillesHa00:32
GeneralAntillesIt's IRC regex!00:33
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JaffaPfft.00:33
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* Jaffa sleeps. G'night.00:40
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* lcuk peeks in here00:59
* GeneralAntilles slams the door on lcuk's fingers.01:00
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lcuki deffo cant do stuff now01:00
lcuktheres me buildin a package - workin my fingers to the bone and you scrw it all up :P01:01
TrueJournalsSo now we can blame GeneralAntilles for the delay?01:01
lcukheh01:01
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maddlerhey all!01:04
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*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/"01:13
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Andy80maddler: hola :)01:18
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gregoroviuspackaging driving you nuts, lcuk? :)02:13
lcukyeah gregorovius :) just another set of things to re-learn and do02:13
gregoroviusI never managed to learn deb packaging, ended up moving to arch linux02:14
* lcuk will never understand this side of it02:14
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maddlerAndy80: TTL here...02:26
maddlersee you all next time, folks02:27
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mojomonkeecan i remove/add programs to the sidebar of the OS?02:59
mojomonkeei don't ever use the chat program and i want to remove it02:59
mojomonkeeand can anyone recommend a good small kb for the 770?03:00
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* lcuk puts 10p in the machine03:30
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MacerStskeeps - first try didn't boot03:42
Maceri'm trying one more time to make sure .. picked ncurses for the install this time03:42
Macertried to boot from the bootmenu and just stuck there and didn't boot. i'll check it out later on when i get time. might just be a problem with the deblet.item i made or maybe the fstab.. (although i'd still see it boot if it were the fstab)03:43
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mdgHello!04:03
TrueJournalsHi04:03
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mdgI'm having trouble downloading media converter for 770 - even though it is under "PC" software, it will not install.04:04
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MagicFab_Hi there04:20
MagicFab_Would anyone know where https://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/ went ?04:20
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TrueJournalsI would say the new wiki: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_on_Linux04:21
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MagicFab_TrueJournals, wow that was fast - thank you!04:21
TrueJournalsNo problem04:21
MagicFab_TrueJournals, if you're not a bot you should consider becoming one04:22
MagicFab_;)04:22
TrueJournalsMagicFab_: Umm... I'll think about it, I guess...04:22
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* MagicFab_ updates https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortableDevices/Nokia04:24
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* TrueJournals wishes there was a "chinook and diablo" option in the extras assistant04:29
GeneralAntillesTrueJournals, enhancement request?04:31
TrueJournalsYeah, I should probably do that04:31
TrueJournalsNot a big deal, just a pain to go through and do diablo, then go through and do chinook04:31
GeneralAntillesMagicFab_, while you're at it, mind updating the rest of the links to point to the articles on the new wiki?04:32
MagicFab_GeneralAntilles, why isn't there proper redirection set there ?04:33
GeneralAntillesMagicFab_, we're working on it.04:33
GeneralAntillesThe old wiki is going to die for good very soon.04:33
MagicFab_only one otherlink refers to the older wiki... hunting it down04:34
MagicFab_GeneralAntilles, sorry at this time at night I feel rather lazy :)04:35
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MagicFab_and yes it's only 9:35 (EST) pm04:35
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MagicFab_Done, and thanks for suggesting that GeneralAntilles ;)04:37
GeneralAntillesThanks for fixing it. ;)04:37
TrueJournalsGeneralAntilles: added bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375804:43
MagicFab_'night all04:44
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KotCzarnyyawn.05:22
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robinkWas the OS2008 Feature Update supposed to upgrade the kernel as well?05:41
GeneralAntillesYes05:41
GeneralAntillesIf it wasn't, run flash-and-reboot.05:42
robinkGeneralAntilles: Thanks.05:42
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robinkinitfs was updated, kernel wasn't.05:46
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lopznight05:56
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MacerStskeeps - it finished installing06:11
Maceryou didnt include bt stuff by default?06:12
Macercan't do much with it until i get home and get back on the wifi06:14
Maceronly have my phone now06:14
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StskeepsMacer: you made .item yourself? deblet does that for you :P08:08
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thuxhi, how to msn with diablo? can you minimize gizmo to tray? no msn addon to telepathy?08:16
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GeneralAntillesYes there is.08:17
thuxwhat is it haze?08:18
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prakwhat would be an application that you would recommend that is capable of reading word documents?08:24
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acydlord_aaoabiword?08:24
acydlord_aaoevince?08:24
prakcan evince read word documents?08:27
elektwee new quiver08:29
acydlord_aaoguess not, it shows under planned08:30
elektawesomeness08:30
KotCzarnycatdoc08:30
KotCzarny;)08:30
acydlord_aaoi havent updated my n810 since i got this aspire one08:31
* elekt got one too08:31
acydlord_aaowhich model?08:31
elektwin xp08:31
elektis there any other difference?08:31
acydlord_aaoi got the 11008:31
elektbesides OS and color?08:31
KotCzarnyprice08:32
KotCzarny:)08:32
acydlord_aaoSSD vs HDD08:32
elektoh yah08:32
elekti needz ze space.08:32
acydlord_aaoand supposedly chassis size on the models being released soon08:32
KotCzarnyalso screen size?08:32
acydlord_aaoi have a 120gb external08:32
elekti'd would've had more space on my n800 than the ssd version08:32
acydlord_aaoscreen size is 8.9 on all the ones08:32
* KotCzarny waits for cheap 32gb flash cards08:33
acydlord_aaoindeed08:33
acydlord_aaothats one reason i went with the ssd model08:33
acydlord_aaohdd version has worse battery life08:33
acydlord_aaoand is almost 1lb heavier08:34
KotCzarnymine x40 is ~3lbs08:34
KotCzarny*my08:35
elekt16 gb ssd hd?08:36
elektor how big08:36
acydlord_aao~2.2lb on mine08:36
acydlord_aao8gb SSD08:36
KotCzarny4gb + 8gb cf08:36
acydlord_aaoi upgraded my ram to 1.5gb08:36
KotCzarnyand i can get another ide-cf adapter into the second slot08:36
KotCzarnyahm, +8gb sd08:36
elektwell i have 160 Gb08:37
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elektin your multiple faces08:37
KotCzarnyone day it could go 4x32gb cf + 32gb sd08:37
acydlord_aaoi'm looking at one of the samsung SSDs, or a zif > CF adapter08:37
acydlord_aaowell i have 1tb if i bust out one of my externals :p08:37
elektzif?08:37
elekti have more than you08:38
elekt:_)08:38
KotCzarnybut is it portable?08:38
KotCzarny:)08:38
elektyes08:38
KotCzarnydangling08:38
KotCzarny:)08:38
elektfairly08:38
elekti'm a video editor08:39
elekti eat through them08:39
KotCzarnythen you probably want that new dell laptop08:39
KotCzarny16gb ram, 1tb of hdd08:39
KotCzarny:>08:39
elektdon't trust laptops for work really, unless i carry it in a hardcore case08:40
elektkinda defeats the purpose tho08:40
KotCzarnyyeah, the lighter ones have  bigger chance to survive08:40
KotCzarnyunless it's toughbook08:41
KotCzarny:)08:41
elekti lose hdd's regularly08:42
elektimagine losing source code somebody has only given you08:42
elektand you lose it08:42
elektand it's gone08:42
KotCzarnythen ssd is the way to go08:42
KotCzarny:)08:42
KotCzarnynot dangling one08:42
GeneralAntillesSetup a RAID with SDHC.08:43
Stskeepsi wonder if anyone ever did software raid on the n800s.. :P08:43
KotCzarnystskeeps: zfs-fuse08:43
KotCzarny:)08:43
elektwhat's the mtbf for ssd anyways?08:43
GeneralAntillesI can't imagine we'd have the throughput to make it worthwhile.08:43
KotCzarnyfor slc long08:44
KotCzarny:)08:44
KotCzarnymlc shorter, but also long08:44
KotCzarnyunless you put vista on it08:44
KotCzarny;)08:44
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StskeepsKotCzarny: i would honestly love zfs snapshots on tablet..08:44
KotCzarnystskeeps, fuse is already available08:44
StskeepsKotCzarny: yeah, but i'm not that insane :P08:44
KotCzarnycompiling zfs-fuse should answer the question if it works08:44
* Stskeeps uses zfs on his nexenta boxses08:44
KotCzarnyhow insane?08:45
KotCzarnyi like lzo compression08:45
KotCzarny:)08:45
KotCzarnynot compatible pools, but oh well08:45
Stskeepsalso zfs is a bit of a memory hog but for my file servers that's okay :P08:45
KotCzarny:)08:45
KotCzarnywell08:45
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GeneralAntillesDamn08:48
GeneralAntilleslcuk's thermal fears weren't exactly well-founded about the Beagle.08:48
GeneralAntillesRated for 90°C08:48
Stskeepsprepared for global warming08:50
Stskeeps:P08:50
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GeneralAntillesHrm08:55
GeneralAntillesPoor Trolltech08:55
GeneralAntilles"Qt Software"08:56
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Macerhm09:18
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MacerStskeeps ? you around?09:18
Maceri was reading the msg where you say how to set up the ppp connection for a bt phone but i don't see one where you actually set up the bt phone :)09:19
MacerStskeeps - yes. i made it myself heh.. i didn't know until i had already did it09:19
Macerif the install makes it for you .. you should probbly remove the bootloader from it09:20
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StskeepsMacer: huh?09:59
StskeepsMacer: i use one of the applets from bluez10:00
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StskeepsMacer: and the install just makes the .item for you, and then flashes the menu item to initfs10:05
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thuxis there a msn addon to telepathy?10:07
acydlord_aaotelepathy-haze10:10
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thuxacydlord_aao: what repository it is?10:15
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lpotterGeneralAntilles: "Poor"?10:27
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GeneralAntilleslpotter, much less interesting name now.10:29
acydlord_aaocolabora i think10:30
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MangoFusioncola-what?10:36
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X-FadeMorning, finally managed to catch that flue. :(10:43
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hrwmorning10:46
hrwflash-and-reboot is in which repository?10:46
GeneralAntillestableteer10:47
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I'm docking you awesome points for getting sick. :P10:47
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, at least it is not stopping me from doing work..10:48
GeneralAntillesThe wonders of telecommuting.10:50
GeneralAntillesDon't work too hard. :)10:51
hrwGeneralAntilles: which one?10:54
hrwdeb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/ diablo user10:54
hrwdeb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/non-certified/ diablo user10:54
hrwdeb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-2/ ./10:54
hrwnone has it10:54
GeneralAntillesdeb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-1/ ./10:54
hrwargh10:54
GeneralAntillesMaybe deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo/ ./10:54
GeneralAntillesYeah, I'm bitching a lot about that stupid setup.10:54
hrw~curse nokia ....10:55
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia .... !10:55
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X-FadeLogs are up at: http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/10:55
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Sargun~lart ya'all10:58
* infobot breaks out the Hoover and sucks up ya'all10:58
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hrwok. now upgraded11:00
hrwabout still lists 23-1411:00
GeneralAntilleshrm, uname -a?11:01
GeneralAntilless/hrm/hrw/11:01
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: hrw, uname -a?11:01
hrwLinux Nokia-N810-23-14 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Tue Sep 2 10:13:14 EEST 2008 armv6l unknown11:02
hrwkernel/initfs just updated by manually call 'flash-and-reboot'11:02
hrwbefore update done by 'apt-get upgrade'11:02
GeneralAntillesOne of the configuration scripts sets the version on the config partition.11:03
GeneralAntillesI don't recall which one off-hand.11:03
hrwwill look later11:03
GeneralAntillesdpkg --configure -a will probably fix it if you want to shotgun-approach it.11:03
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RST38hmoo all11:08
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X-Fadekulve: Ping?11:11
kulvepong11:11
X-Fadekulve: I'm working on getting rid of as much external repositories as possible. Can you be convinced to move your pacakges to Extras and close your repo? :)11:12
kulvenot easily :)11:12
kulvecouple of reasons:11:12
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kulveI would need to rename the gstreamer source packages so that they wouldn't conflict with the nokia's versions11:13
kulvethere is already some packages I'm providing also and I don't want a race where two project sends same packages with increased version numbers11:13
kulve"projects send"11:13
X-Fadekulve: Well, for the gstreamer we would need to organize some coordination. But that should be doable.11:14
kulvesorry, I have to leave for a lunch. I'll be back in a hour or so11:15
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X-Fadekulve: We have built your source packages against extras-devel and most seem to be building on the autobuilder just fine: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/external-rebuild/gronmayer-rebuild.php11:15
kulvebut basically I would be happy to provide my packages to extras if there wouldn't be these issues11:15
X-Fadekulve: Well, I'm sure we can manage to get that sorted out.11:16
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, making progress with Mozilla.11:18
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Good!11:19
GeneralAntillesThey asked about nightlies.11:19
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Extras-devel?11:19
GeneralAntillesI suggested Extras-devel for releases until they hit a real beta, and a separate repository for nightlies.11:20
GeneralAntillesI don't think it's appropriate.11:20
X-FadeYeah, probably.11:20
GeneralAntillesI figure most of the people using it don't want to be notified every day a new version is out.11:20
GeneralAntillesand they probably don't want to fight the autobuilder in a nightly building process.11:20
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GeneralAntillesIsn't Gizmo distributed through one of the Nokia commercial repos?11:22
X-FadeI'd have to check.11:22
* lcuk smiles11:23
MacerStskeeps - bluez didnt install with the installer... there isnt an aplet11:24
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, it's not.11:25
Maceri'll work on it when i get home, no wifi where i am11:25
GeneralAntillesCould we get the person in charge of tableteer to get with Gizmo, though?11:25
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GeneralAntillesSkype is in http://repository.maemo.org/catalogue/certified/pool/diablo/user/s/skype/11:25
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ok, I will see if I can find the person in charge of that repo ;)11:26
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_marcell_X-Fade: I could ask around11:26
* GeneralAntilles sighs.11:26
X-Fade_marcell_: Please ;)11:26
_marcell_X-Fade: at least I am the guy who is putting the packages to certified, but the requests are coming from all over nokia11:27
X-Fade_marcell_: yeah, but we need the business guy, I guess ;)11:27
_marcell_X-Fade: oooo, so what do I need to ask? :)11:27
GeneralAntilles_marcell_, assuming Skype and Gizmo wouldn't be going at each other's throats in the same repo. . . . ;)11:27
GeneralAntillesI can't imagine how they wouldn't be willing to do it.11:27
X-Fade_marcell_: Gizmo is using their own repo. Any reason why they aren't in the tableteer repo?11:28
GeneralAntillesAs there's way more exposure with a repository bundled with the device.11:28
Macerskype is better than gizmo but they need n800 vid support11:28
GeneralAntillesMacer, pssh11:28
GeneralAntillesGizmo uses open standards11:28
Macerheh11:28
GeneralAntillesso I'm not tied to Skype's crap client.11:28
GeneralAntillesWhich makes them a helluva lot better in my book.11:28
Maceri like my skype home phones11:29
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: I see.11:29
StskeepsMacer: yeah, i know11:29
GeneralAntillesMacer, mine are tablets. :D11:29
Macerunlimited skype in, caller id for $50/yr?11:29
StskeepsMacer: the environments still need some extra stuff really, but we're getting the infrastructure ready atm11:29
Maceri was sold11:29
MacerStskeeps - i see.. anything i can zdd myself to get a bt applet?11:30
Macerzdd/add11:30
Macerit works good tho sts11:30
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Maceralthough picking gtk didnt work11:31
StskeepsMacer: apt-get install  bluez-gnome11:31
Macerok. awesome11:31
Stskeepsyou might need to edit the /etc/xdg/autostart .desktop though11:31
Maceri'll do it when i get home.. no wifi here11:31
GeneralAntillesI wish more packagers would use Maemo-Display-Name11:32
GeneralAntillesreally improves the user appeal.11:32
Macerah. that should be easy enough11:32
Stskeepshow does promotion work in extras-devel? someone (not uploader) decides it's good enough for extras?11:32
Macerit looks great tho sts11:33
X-FadeStskeeps: Currenlty every upload can do that.11:33
X-Fade*uploader11:33
Stskeepsk11:33
Maceronce i get the bt kb and dun going ... i probably wont use maemo too often11:34
Macerespecially if i find a good vid and mp3 player11:34
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Macerlike the boot splash too ;)11:35
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Stskeepshehe, good look by timsamoff11:35
Macerdumping epiphany was good heh11:36
Stskeepshaven't actually tried midori yet11:36
Macerthey really need to get rid of that add bar feature in all browsers11:36
Macerwhatever they call it11:36
JaffaGeneralAntilles: is that documented? I don't remember seeing it - even in the Packaging Policy.11:36
Macerit is irritating on a desktop too11:37
GeneralAntillesJaffa, haven't a clue.11:37
GeneralAntillesI haven't paid enough attention to the packaging resources.11:37
Macersts... when i get time this weekend i'm going to host your stuff11:38
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Macerprobably set it up this weekend11:38
StskeepsMacer: k, it's basically just a rsync+ssh needed and an apache virtual host + serveralias :P11:38
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Macerhave the apache box set up already11:38
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Macerjust need to do the vhost.. should take a few mins11:39
Macermight have to nfs it to my shell box tho... ok.. bbl. i'll try the bt stuff in the morn11:40
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Stskeepsyou know you're at the right work place when people start dumping ARM SBC's in your lap, http://www.derekspratt.com/PDFs/Business/Intrinsyc%20Software/Brochures/Intrinsyc%20CerfComm%20250%20Data%20Sheet.pdf (bottom pic)11:43
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* RST38h would prefer money11:44
Stskeepsi'm also getting beagleboards11:44
Stskeeps:P11:44
RST38hAh11:44
RST38hI would still prefer money.11:44
Stskeepshehe11:45
* Jaffa would like *a* Beagleboard and money.11:45
* Jaffa has neither at the moment.11:45
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ds3get a Zoom instead ;)11:47
ds3and have no money11:47
ds3:D11:47
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hpkhello, i am trying to setup a clean minimal environment for compiling a PyPy Python interpreter on Maemo - does anyone know if scratchbox/maemo is supposed to work in a virtualbox image?11:48
hrwhpk: I used vmware scrachbox image in vbox11:49
* melmoth use scratchbox in a xen vm11:49
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* _berto_ uses scratchbox in kvm11:50
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_berto_anyone using scratchbox in openvz ? ;)11:51
_berto_:D11:51
GeneralAntillesWhat section would you put a rotation support metapackage in?11:51
hpkok, thanks for the info.  i indeed got things almost to work nicely yesterday, but then had a strange compilation problem with libpthread (http://paste.pocoo.org/show/86688/)11:51
hpkand my today's tries to re-install from scratch (using  maemo-scratchbox-install_4.1.1.sh ) did not get me as far as yesterday.  any recommendations for what to do to cleanly reinstall everything on a debian 8.04 system?11:53
RST38hGAN: System11:56
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, we went with user/system11:56
RST38hGAN: But it will not work without a non-standard kernel, will it?11:56
GeneralAntillesBut it's, apparently, not one of Application manager's localized sections.11:57
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But that is no an official section ;)11:57
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, guess what else uses it?11:57
* RST38h checks which sections are official11:57
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it pulls in a patched kernel and flashes it.11:57
X-Fadehttps://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories11:57
GeneralAntilleshttp://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:gn_Q-hiPTz4J:maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf+maemo+packaging+policy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us11:57
GeneralAntilleso-s-v is user/system11:58
X-FadeYes, I think current sections are limited and some are even useless ;)11:58
RST38hX-Fade <-- is speaking the truth11:58
RST38hGAN: Well, if it is not user/system, it must be user/support11:59
GeneralAntillesI hate categorization so much.12:00
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RST38hWith sane categories it would not be such a chore12:00
* GeneralAntilles has no idea what a sane list of categories looks like.12:00
GeneralAntillesAnyway, we're close to a rotation-support metapackage.12:01
GeneralAntillesThough it will require the user to read a model number off the bezel and match it to a package name12:01
RST38hGAN: You only need to look at some old, time-tested distro12:01
RST38hFreeBSD package categories, or Debian package categories...12:02
GeneralAntillesRST38h, have you seen Debian's list?12:02
RST38hNot really - I do not use Debian12:02
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GeneralAntilleshamradio12:02
RST38hif there is a lot of ham apps, then why not give them a category?12:02
GeneralAntilleshttp://packages.debian.org/stable/12:02
RST38hWell, it looks ok to me12:03
RST38hA few names are asking for a change or removal, but overall it is ok12:03
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melmothanybody fluent with gdb usage in scratchbox ?12:04
hrwwhich .... decided that backupping settings == backupping emails...12:07
GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3602#c912:07
GeneralAntilleshrw, I filed a bug a while ago.12:07
GeneralAntillesSomething about Modest and gconf12:07
GeneralAntillesIt'll be fixed at some point.12:07
RST38hBtw, I had the same question12:07
GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=328912:07
GeneralAntillesI'd like to investigate Marius's suggest (well, it's actually jott's idea originally).12:08
GeneralAntillesBe _really_ helpful if we could convince Nokia to give us at least a few days heads up before they push an update.12:08
hrwok. now I have 36-5 in about12:09
GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375912:09
GeneralAntillesAnybody want to triage that?12:09
RST38hhow?12:11
GeneralAntillesRST38h, very carefully.12:12
RST38hscary.12:12
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qwerty12~lart wikiblame12:15
* infobot follow's wikiblame with a gauntlet and ... scratch ... HUMILIATION12:15
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lcuk_afk~lart qwerty1212:22
* infobot blasts qwerty12 with a huge firehose then strangles qwerty12 with it12:22
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* qwerty12 runs12:22
lcukmornin q12:22
qwerty12hey lcuk12:22
lcuki think that packaging fix will work \o/ i grabbed the original one you knocked up and moulded it12:23
qwerty12Is it in SVN with the fix? I'd like to take another look if I may :)12:24
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qwerty12I've been thinking about it and the font shouldn't be installed to /usr/share/fonts like a system font. I think it would be better off residing in the liqbase directory.12:25
melmothlcuk: qwerty, i try to add the dbg package, i m not sure this is the way it should be though http://sd-2175.dedibox.fr/tmp/diff2.txt12:29
melmothit "works" if i tell gdb to use  /usr/lib/debug/usr/bin/liqbase instead of /usr/bin/liqbase, but i am not sure this is the way debug symbols should work in deb packaging.12:29
melmothwith RHEL, there are some symbols automagically found by gdb, and you use the regular binary exectuables12:30
lcukok, sorry for dropping, internet here dies whenever someone uploads12:31
lcukqwerty12, ive not had a chance to try the fix, but it *does* seem like whats required - ive not run over a package myself yet12:31
lcukthe font install is a bit mmmnmn that isnt even really needed, but i was fixing paths to everything last night and made all fonts point into there - infact ill make sure its not in the base package12:32
qwerty12melmoth, I'm a n00b :). I'm trying to find some -dbg packages12:32
qwerty12lcuk, yeah, I'd say shift the font into /usr/share/liqbase and remove those font lines from the postinst#12:33
* qwerty12 should reboot into linux actually. See you in a long while (~kill ndiswrapper)...12:33
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lcukyer i had noticed last night theres a few things in postinst that i dont want - liqbase itself needs to create the sketch folder per spec from user, ill get that put in at next sitdown12:34
lcukmelmoth - what debugging do you do on device, what options have you got - i know its something a lot of people have requested simple information about12:35
lcukand how well does it work12:36
melmothwell, i tend to generate a lot of segfautl when i write C.12:36
melmothi like to be able to see the stack content when this happens12:36
melmothand try to find out where did i did something bad12:36
melmothbtw, this is how i try to make the -dbg package http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/how_to_make_a_dbg_package.html12:37
lcukheh, i tend to just try to ensure i include constructors and destructors and feel the code in a test function before expanding it into use12:37
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lcukim havin trouble makin a default package so far, ill get through that before i start on advanced topics ;)12:38
lcukthough i do like the idea of device-device debugging :)12:38
lcukabout 80% of the size of my binary is probably debug messages :D12:39
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lcukwb linux boy12:39
lcukhey qwerty, liqbase can be built on a full linux desktop now12:40
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lcukits got some bugs, and a mouse is not perfect for sketching, but it looks cool12:40
lcuktsk12:40
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lcukim goin again anyway, cyas later12:41
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qwerty12Goddam, xchat fucks up my internet connection when I try connecting >.<12:41
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EgSuse quassel ;)12:44
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qwerty12I'll probably recompile the latest unstable ndiswrapper. It may be a result of ubuntu messing up their modules packages or something.12:46
qwerty12I'll probably recompile the latest unstable ndiswrapper. It may be a result of ubuntu messing up their modules packages or something.12:46
qwerty12Still, I'm glad no one recommended irssi :P12:47
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GeneralAntilleslardman, did you ever move the DSP stuff to the new wiki?12:52
hrwqwerty12: what kind of crappy card you use?12:53
GeneralAntilleslardman, ah, now I see it.12:53
qwerty12hrw: Some safecom card. With a TI chipset :/. The only driver for TI chipsets doesn't work for my card :(12:55
qwerty12lcuk: I'm fixing my cockup with the font stuff :)12:55
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GeneralAntillesdneary, ping.13:12
dnearybusy right now13:12
dnearybbiaw13:12
GeneralAntillesRight-o13:12
X-FadeNice, qt4 repository is now gone too. And gronmayer already picked that up ;)13:13
aquatixqwerty12: get irssi dammit13:14
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, slowly filling the bottom of gronmayer with gray repos. :D13:15
X-FadeYep ;)13:16
hrwX-Fade: nice13:16
X-FadeMore coming soon, it seems.13:16
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GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Kill_the_old_wiki13:23
GeneralAntillesIf I could get some more eyes on http://maemo.org/community/wiki/wikireorg/13:24
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cuseHi! Is there no source code for the connectivity dialogs publicly available?13:29
GeneralAntillescuse, nope.13:29
cuse:/13:29
cuseand there is no DBUS reference either, right?13:30
cusei need to find out how to control the nokias wlan deamon13:30
GeneralAntillesPoke maemo-developers13:31
cuseto be able to automatically connect to an access point13:31
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GeneralAntillesand take a look at the Diablo documentation13:31
qwerty12cuse, I'm not sure on how to do it with DBUS but looking into libconic is worth a try13:31
MangoFusionor you could hire a load of monkeys13:31
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MangoFusionand get them to randomly come up with an implementation13:32
cuseMangoFusion: sorry, monkeys are too big and too stinky13:32
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inzcuse, try dbus-monitor ;)13:32
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cuseinz: aaaaah, thanks a lot! :)13:32
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inzcuse, and if you get it figured out, create .xml files for the D-Bus API ;)13:33
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cuseinz: uh? xml files? for what?13:33
cuseinz: i would either write a script to do it or a small c app13:34
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cuseah13:34
cuseyou mean documentation13:34
cuse:)13:34
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inzcuse, .xml-files that can be interpreted by dbus-binding-tool13:34
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I think dneary moved if for me, I need to update13:35
inzcuse, you could of course try if the thing supports introspection, but I really doubt it13:35
lardmans/if/it13:35
cuseinz: your speaking in riddles to me :)13:35
cuseinz: i thought i just use e.g. dbus-send, no?13:35
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inzcuse, D-Bus has a way of asking an object "what methods do you have"13:36
lardmancuse: libconic would be the way to go; that is all documented13:36
inzcuse, unfortunately most of nokia-made maemo components don't support this13:36
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cuseinz: yeah, thats why i would stick with the sniffing solution13:37
cuselardman: ill have a look at it, thanks!13:37
qwerty12<qwerty12> cuse, I'm not sure on how to do it with DBUS but looking into libconic is worth a try13:37
lardmanqwerty12: just adding to your comment13:37
lardmanqwerty12: have you tried driftnet lately?13:37
qwerty12lardman, I know, nothing against you. I'm pointing out to cuse that I said it a *long* time ago :)13:38
qwerty12lardman, I've never tried it :)13:38
lardmancuse: http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node10.html13:38
lardmanqwerty12: I know ;)13:38
lardmanqwerty12: Ah, I thought it would be right up your street; would have been cool for the summit too13:38
cuseqwerty12: got that one, thanks i dig into libcon stuff13:38
cuseqwerty12: :)13:39
qwerty12lardman, I think Benson's compiled it for maemo13:39
qwerty12cuse, :)13:39
lardmanqwerty12: Ok, I'll browse ITT and see (/me being lazy and not being bothered to compile it himself again)13:39
qwerty12lardman, I'd offer but I was in Linux just now and I swear to God, I would have smashed up my computer if I had to endure another minute of really dodgy internet in Linux13:40
lardmanlol13:41
lardmanI need to get a build machine at work13:41
melmothyo lardman .13:41
melmothi played with navit this week end.13:41
melmothit is cool, and it ..sort of works.13:41
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melmothaudio navigation can be done also with espeal and some change in the configuration file.13:42
lardmanhey melmoth13:43
lardmanespeal?13:43
qwerty12espeak13:43
lardmando we have that on the tablet?13:43
melmothi pushed it on extras13:44
lardmancool13:44
melmothbut you need gstreamer to make some output13:44
lardmanhow about the routing, did you get it to work?13:44
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melmothyes . the trick is to have gpsd started , and to click somewhere, and choose 'set destination'13:44
melmoththen wait, couples of seconds later, you got your road.13:45
lardmanah, ok13:45
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lardmanI didn't get a chance to do any coding this weekend, will have to look at adding support so it will start gpsd and work out how to use the dialog too13:45
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melmoththe navigation dialog lost me..i think once you choose a city, you then either choose to click on 'map' to center the map, or 'destination', to set it as destination13:46
melmothbut i m not 100% sure this is how it works13:46
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lardmanyeah, didn't seem to do anything for me13:46
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lardmanrendering was pretty fast though13:48
melmothi was ashamed..I was struggling to fit the whole paris graph in less than 100M of ram, those guy made the whole france fit in a 100Mb file.13:49
melmoththis hit the nail on sayhoo's coffin :)13:49
lardmandid you work out why your method took so much more memory?13:50
melmothnot really13:50
melmothi did try to understand how navit generated their map from the osm data, but dropped quite fast.13:51
melmothso i spent time playing with it instead :)13:51
lardman:)13:51
lardmandid you store the xml in memory13:53
lardman?13:53
lardmanas Navit uses a binary representation13:53
melmothi parsed the xml to feed a sqlite database, and then use the database to generate the graph in memory13:54
lardmanok13:54
RST38hhey folks have you got navit to work?!?13:55
melmothsort of13:55
RST38hoh13:55
benno2question about libconic: there is a call to request a connection, but does it allow to specify the name of the wlan access point I want to connect to ?13:55
melmothlatest snv version, compiled on scratchbox (without the python bindings)13:55
melmothnot package, crash sometimes, tells to do u turn when i dont understand why, but works otherwise13:56
* melmoth has no clue about libconic13:56
lardmanlol13:57
lardmanmelmoth: see the link I gave above re libconic13:57
lardmannamely http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node10.html13:57
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lcukcuse, there was just a posting yesterday on maemo-developers about programmatically connecting and disconnecting to a network connection14:02
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cuselcuk: yeeeeah? ok, hope there is an archive14:03
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crashanddiecuse, no, it all sent into /dev/null as soon as we finish writing14:03
cusecrashanddie: damn :)14:03
lcuklol sometimes before we are finished14:04
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lcukmornin crashanddie  :)14:04
lcukcuse, the mail subject was "Offline mode from the command-line?"14:05
lcuki dunno where the archive is, but it exists14:05
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Simenta_is hier pennergame??14:06
cuselcuk: i found the archive: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/  but seems that thread is not archived yet14:06
lardmanFirst link on Google search14:06
crashanddieSimenta_, beg your pardon?14:07
Simenta_what sorry but iam german14:07
RST38hOne in three dollars spent on notebooks end up at Apple14:07
cuselcuk: could you probably paste it for me ? pleeeeeeeeeeeeese! :D14:07
crashanddieSimenta_, under, wir sprechen kein deutsch14:07
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crashanddieund**14:07
Simenta_oh sorry is here "pennergame"14:07
lardmanwhat's that?14:07
RST38hmelmoth: tried stack trace analysis of crashes?14:07
Simenta_a Browsergame14:07
lcukim connected via vnc through a crappy uplink, it took 40 seconds to flick back and forwards to just select the mail subject, im not openin anythin again14:08
melmothRST38h: what crash ?14:08
lcukbbl14:08
RST38hmelmoth: Navit crash14:08
melmothRST38h: i would like some dbg symbol for...future crash.14:08
Simenta_ok not? i go out14:08
melmothahh navit.14:08
crashanddieSimenta_, this is the channel for the maemo.org community14:08
melmothno, i did not have ulimit set to unlimited on the tablet, so no core14:08
lardmancuse: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2008-September/date.html14:09
RST38hmelmoth: I am pretty sure that even the way it is, you will still get a stack trace14:09
RST38hunless the binary is stripped14:09
cuselardman: you're a sweetheart! :)14:09
lardmancuse: might not be what you want though14:09
lardmanSimenta_: I think the answer is probably no14:10
melmothi do not remember seeing any backtrace on the term i laucnhed nativ from.. will double check next time i use it.14:10
melmothRST38h: do you know if any navit developper hangs out on this channel ?14:11
RST38hmelmoth: they do not14:12
melmothGrumble.14:12
lardmanis there a #navit channel I wonder14:12
RST38hOr we would see and torture one14:12
melmothAhaha14:12
RST38hBut a crash should be easy to trace anyway14:12
lardmanmelmoth: yes there is14:12
* crashanddie cries out14:12
* crashanddie removes the highlight on the word "crash"14:13
lardmansorry crashanddie14:13
RST38hmelmoth: See how easy it is to trace a crash? =)14:13
GeneralAntillesPoor crashanddie14:13
melmothwe will try not talk about crash that much anymore14:13
GeneralAntillesI hope he doesn't crashanddie14:13
RST38hNavit? He does.14:14
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RST38hhttp://www.ljplus.ru/img4/e/m/empathogen/theysayjump.jpg14:20
GeneralAntillesLove it14:22
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, ping.14:27
* L0cutus need rdiff-backup on maemo :)14:28
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[pcfe]where can I find logs of osso-backup? Mine just sits there at 100% CPU usage after entering password for new backup (left it running overnight), and even if I call osso-backup from the command line I get no output. I do guess though that is does log somewhere14:31
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RST38hpcfe: Known bug14:32
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RST38hpcfe: One of config files contains a character that confuses XML parser14:33
RST38hMost likely, it is an email address with unescaped @ character14:33
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: about Gizmo: the answer was that the certified repo is for nokia/nokia licensed application, and gizmo is not one of those.14:34
RST38hTerminate it and try backing things up WITHOUT backing Settings. See if this one succeeeds. If it does, then it is exactly as I have said14:34
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: I will still try to ask if it would be possible to talk to Gizmo people to use the non-certified repository or something like that.14:34
RST38hmarcel: Is there some problem using extras/non-free?14:35
GeneralAntillesAh, cool. Thanks, _marcell_. :)14:36
_marcell_RST38h: extras is for community stuff, and Gizmo probably do not want to distribute the sources14:36
RST38hmarcel: non-free is for non-open-source apps14:36
X-Fade_marcell_: We allow binary uploads for non-free only.14:36
_marcell_ah, that.14:36
RST38hmarcel: as for being community, my guess is that for practical purposes it is better to be in extras, community or not14:36
RST38hOf course for now Nokia disables Extras by default...14:37
_marcell_my first choiche would have been catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/non-certified14:37
GeneralAntillesnon-certified is enabled by default.14:38
RST38hyep14:38
GeneralAntillesThere's no benefit to it being in Extras over non-certified.14:38
RST38hbut it is a weird repo with very few apps14:38
RST38hHas Nokia any plans about it?14:38
aquatixRST38h: lol @ that jump image14:38
* RST38h supports the message wholeheartedly14:39
_marcell_about non-certified? afaik it's empty14:39
GeneralAntillesIt's empty.14:39
* aquatix puts the image on his own weblog14:39
RST38hAnd start with realtors please.14:39
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[pcfe]RST38h: thanks. Do you happen to know the bug number?14:40
RST38hpcfe: Not really. Just encountered it at least once, with Modest config fiel14:40
RST38hfile14:40
X-FadeIt might be that the maemo.nokia.com promoted apps end up in non-certified?14:40
macoute_btw. is the release date of next tablet already published?14:41
RST38hUnable to determine IP address from host name for maemo.nokia.com14:41
macoute_even a quarter?14:41
GeneralAntillesmacoute_, there aren't even real prototypes yet.14:41
RST38hmacoute: May 2009 or later14:41
macoute_GeneralAntilles: but the specs are ready?14:41
GeneralAntillesPresumably mid-2009.14:41
macoute_RST38h: that an official information?14:41
macoute_ok.14:42
RST38hmacoute: Because May 2009 is when they expect to release Freemantle SDK14:42
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macoute_ok14:42
RST38hAdd 2-4 months to that and you have got the hw release date14:42
RST38hAlternative hypothesis is that they will release Freemantle for N8x0 first, but chances for that are low14:43
macoute_ok14:44
macoute_so the release cycle is supposed to be around a year for major updates?14:44
RST38hthere are no official release cycles14:44
macoute_diablo was released around may 08, right?14:44
[pcfe]RST38h: an, found it, 359114:46
lardmanhmm, I got the impression that hw would be available, at least for developers, before that14:46
RST38hpcfe: That may not be it14:46
RST38hlardman: judging from the N810, no14:47
RST38hlardman: Also, OMAP3 will not appear in the tablet until it starts appearing in the S60 phones14:47
lardmanRST38h: you don;t know the latter14:48
RST38hlardman: I do not, but it is a reasonable enough assumption14:48
lardmanRST38h: at the summit we were told that devices would be available ahead of time for developers14:48
lardmanRST38h: yeah, but not certain14:48
RST38hlardman: Yes, but "ahead of time" means "before they are available in the stores"14:49
RST38hNo "before SDK is released"14:49
lardmanabsolutely14:50
lardmanbut as the first alpha is slated for next month, that gives plenty of time14:50
RST38hIn any case, 8 months from paper to production with no previous OMAP3 designs is kinda short14:50
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lardmanRST38h: how do we know they only started the process 8 months ago?14:51
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RST38hlardman: At the summit they have said there is no concrete plans for the new device design yet, just knowledge fo what would go in14:52
lcuknokia are large, from what we were saw at linuxtag they have all kinds of devices hidden away in underground labs and people walking around with maniacal smiles on their faces knowing that they play with stuff we wont see for years14:52
lardmanoh I see14:52
RST38hlardman: May 2009 is 8 months from the summit14:52
RST38hlardman: So, in those months they have to do electrical design (from scratch, no production OMAP3 phones yet)14:52
lcuk(i say linuxtag because that was our glimpse at the 810w - and the talk was of all the variations)14:52
RST38hlardman: Have to produce working software (end-user quality), have to do mechanical design and select materials too14:53
RST38hlardman: have to figure out the exact production process, raw materials to packaging, and push this onto their Chinese manufacturer14:53
* lcuk imagines nokias hardware design is akin to "The Matrix" - i need screens, lots of screens14:54
RST38hPlus all the small stuff - manuals, translations, packaging, marketing crap, developer relations...14:54
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: pong14:55
lardmanRST38h: i didn't hear the bit about nothing being concrete; I'd assumed they have prototypes already14:55
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, so, osso-software-version-community.14:55
RST38hlardman: They said they had a board14:55
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RST38hlardman: Either TI EVB or their own, but it does not really matter14:56
GeneralAntillesI'd like to ship a bootmenu initfs with it.14:56
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: how do you plan?14:56
GeneralAntillesSo we'd definitely want to use your .item system.14:56
lcuklardman, it seems natural that if they have chosen a basic hardware profile that they have at least seen and playe3d with the capabilities - heh, we might find out that  nokiaare planning on bulk ordering thousands of pandoras :D14:56
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RST38hlcuk: Or waiting for pandora guys to belly up so they could buy them off for peanuts14:56
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah, it would make cloning packages etc easier14:56
GeneralAntillesBut I'm thinking we need two things. The default needs to boot from NAND by default with a 0 second delay.14:57
GeneralAntillesand we need a control panel applet for setting up the boot volumes.14:57
RST38hAlthough it does not really pmatter: Nokia is perfectly capable of using the same reference design from ti14:57
lcukRST38h, not their game really, but if the hardware is compatible it would be extremely compelling to have maemo on a gaming oriented device14:57
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it does that already when no menu activated14:57
Stskeeps1sec maybe for keypress14:58
johnx_RST38h, word on pandora: I think they're close to selling out or have already14:58
RST38hlcuk: Both Nokia and Pandora use the same design they have got from TI14:58
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: full source is on garage bootmenu14:58
RST38hlcuk: So, "gaming" is really defined by having a decent d-pad here14:58
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, so everybody would have usbnet console by default.14:58
RST38hjohnx: 3000 preorders?14:58
johnx_RST38h, looks that way. craigix is talking on #pandoradev on efnet14:59
RST38hnice14:59
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i would think a recovery menu could be interesting14:59
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, ah right.14:59
GeneralAntillesThat little beauty.14:59
lardmanjohnx_: probably not too surprising after being slashdoted etc14:59
GeneralAntillesThis gets better and better.14:59
johnx_lardman, slashdotted, dugg and a youtube video of ubuntu on the same day :)15:00
GeneralAntillesOK, folks, I want you all to ponder your brains on a community distribution of Maemo.15:00
GeneralAntillesAn osso-software-version-community15:00
lardmanjohnx_: I see the front page has been modified to go directly to the sales page :)15:00
RST38hyou mean, with all the relevant kernel patches thrown together?15:00
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: such as gserial, gether, utilities to export LUNs15:00
johnx_GeneralAntilles, so with the capability to replace some core components, but not all? or completely open source?15:00
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GeneralAntillesjohnx_, breaking us free from the inflexibility of the current setup15:01
RST38hwell, I hope boot menu is not included with this distribution - it really seems to mess things up for people15:01
GeneralAntillesBut not necessarily with the goal of purging non-free components.15:01
GeneralAntillesRST38h, um?15:01
lcukGeneralAntilles, hows your beagle, is it back from the vets yet15:02
RST38hGAN: Check ITT for reports of boot menu being broken/malfunctioning after each system update15:02
GeneralAntilleslcuk, no, still haven't had time to invest in recovering it.15:02
RST38hMay be better to avoid including it by default15:02
lcukshame15:02
GeneralAntillesRST38h, you're missing the point.15:02
johnx_RST38h, yeah, it gets wiped by nokia's updater. it doesn't leave the tablet ubootable15:02
RST38hok15:02
GeneralAntillesbootmenu gets wiped by Nokia updates15:02
RST38hgetting wiped is ok with me15:02
GeneralAntillesWe're removing Nokia updates from the equation15:02
GeneralAntillesWell15:02
RST38hHow are you gonna stay current then?15:02
lcukbbl15:03
GeneralAntillesBasically, SSU update comes out, then we update our stuff within a week of that.15:03
RST38hIMHO it is a bad idea15:03
GeneralAntillesWe're replacing osso-software-version-rx*4 with a much more flexible community version.15:03
RST38hHow about making things compatible with SSU updates?15:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, that's not a possibility.15:04
StskeepsRST38h: bootmenu .item system would allow resurrecting your full bootmenu easily15:04
RST38hSo that we keep *certain components* but allow upgrading the rest?15:04
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, right.15:04
RST38hok, I guess I was wrong about bootmenu15:04
Stskeepsas its both on rootfs and initfs15:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, we're still pushing Nokia updates, we're just diverting some stuff and adding in our own stuff.15:04
Stskeepssynced with refresh_bootmenu.d15:05
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_julianhi15:05
_juliandoes someone know if there are plans for making a qt4/maemo release based on newest qt 4.5 snapshots?15:05
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, what's the threshold for playing with initfs safely as a mounted filesystem?15:05
GeneralAntilles_julian, there are.15:05
Stskeepsdiablo? no issue15:05
GeneralAntillesSupposedly it'll be beta or so by next year.15:05
_julianGeneralAntilles: any details? - I'm really keen on testing the speed improvements15:06
jott_julian: as soon as possible.15:06
Stskeepsi really wonder why they flash the entire bloody thing15:06
_julianjott: cool, hopefully that will be really soon (c:15:06
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, less failure-prone.15:06
jott_julian: yeah we have to think about if using the snapshot or just backporting the rendering core is the way to go.15:06
Stskeeps(tablet running out of power, may vanish15:07
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I think it'd be a little easier to deal with modifications to the initfs as filesystem changes rather than mucking with mtdutils.15:07
_julianjott: I guess just using the snapshot will be a less complicated task...15:07
jott(i.e. using the snapshot would also imply porting the hildon changes etc.)15:07
jottno.15:07
_julianhmm, ok15:07
jottnot necessarily ..15:07
jottbut maybe i'll try a custom build and see how much performance gain is to be expected ..15:08
_julianyes, that'll be really cool. right now my apps suffer really under the low qt performance (draing custom list delegates with nice background and formatted text)15:09
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: package overriding initfs_flashet package maybe15:09
Stskeepsthat patches the incoming image15:10
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, osv-c controls the updates15:10
GeneralAntillesSo we just package our initfs up for it.15:11
GeneralAntillesBut I'm thinking about when you're modifying .items or editing the bootmenu from a GUI control panel.15:11
GeneralAntillesFlashing those updates is a little tedious.15:11
GeneralAntillesWould just remounting rw, making the changes then going back to ro be better?15:11
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: that's mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs, cp in, under diablo15:12
Stskeepsyeah, except its not safe on chinook, which is why i dont do it15:12
X-Fade~seen mgedmin15:12
infobotmgedmin <n=mg@adsl-99-136-97-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 13h 15m 26s ago, saying: '/dev/mmcblk1?'.15:12
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, this is an SSU thing.15:13
GeneralAntillesSo Chinook's not an issue.15:13
Stskeepstrue15:13
Stskeepsits just a matter of writing a diablo-refresh-bootmenu.d15:14
Stskeepswhich cps instead of flash15:14
guerbyhi, is there an official (or considered safe) repo list for the current tablet?15:14
GeneralAntilles~extras15:14
infobotwell, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras15:14
MacerStskeeps - hi15:15
Stskeepsclone etc scripts write a .item and call refresh_bootmenu.d15:15
Maceri got the phone and the n800 to bond... i'm trying to figure out how to bond the su8w15:15
Stskeepsso its easily replacable15:15
StskeepsMacer: goodie15:15
Macerwell... got it to bond15:16
Macerdidn't get the dun set up yet ;)15:16
Maceri will once i get this su8w working15:16
guerbyGeneralAntilles, the wiki page appears empty, am I alone in seeing this?15:16
Macern800 sucks so bad with the onbaord keyboard heh15:16
GeneralAntillesguerby, refresh.15:17
guerbyI keep doing it but still blank, let me restart my browser15:17
GeneralAntillesshift-reload15:17
GeneralAntillesIt's cached.15:17
johnx_Macer, yup. I'm actually working on that right now15:17
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: what comunity features would you like to see else? "would you like to run your OS from SD for more app and document space" could prolly be cool15:18
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, maybe.15:18
GeneralAntillesSomething to think about.15:18
Macericeweasel?15:19
Macer:)15:19
Macerit has that damn "feature" too huh?15:19
GeneralAntillesInitially, though, we mostly want to break free from that goddamn o-s-v. ;)15:19
Macergod that address bar shit is so annoying. i don't see how anybody would think tha twas a good thing15:19
johnx_Macer, it's good if it doesn't interfere with the onscreen keyboard15:19
Macerno.. it is horrible.. half the pages it shows i don't want to look at.. i just want to disable it15:20
Macer:)15:20
Macerand i don't seen an option to do so15:20
johnx_Macer, hmm...maybe in about:config. don't look at me though. I love it15:20
Macerthe web browser will never grasp where i want to go. it might get a couple of them right15:20
Macerbut it is the most annoying feature i have ever encountered in a web browser15:20
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: im really starting to appreciate sane repos like debians after ssu..15:20
jotthaving a community o-s-v would allow much easier ways to distribute custom kernels and not being forced to install stupid pdfs etc.15:20
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jottStskeeps: a sane metapackage would be a way in the right direction :)15:21
johnx_Macer, you have to learn how to use it right in ff3. You can feed it separate words to match against every URL you visited. So if you can remember any two or three unique parts of a URL you can get there fast15:21
Macerthat would be grea on an n81015:22
Macerbut on an n800 with no qwerty it is a pain to work with when it takes up the whole screen :)15:22
Macerplus .. when it pops up it requires double tapping the onboard keyboard15:22
johnx_Macer, agreed, but I think that can be fixed at the window manager level...hence what I'm trying to do. :P15:23
Maceri honestly don't think it will work well on an n800 since the need of the onboard keyboard.. one is going to get in front of the other15:24
Maceri'm sure it's great on an n81015:24
johnx_that's nice. then just let me work on it, and if I can't make it work, you can say I told you so15:24
Macerand it wouldn't drive me nuts once i figured out how to get my su8w working on it15:24
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Macerheh15:24
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pppoe_dudehello15:24
Macerwhat is that feature called?15:25
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JaffaX-Fade: seen the duplicated favourites on p.m.o?15:25
X-FadeJaffa: ?15:27
X-FadeJaffa: What should I see?15:27
aquatixhm, can i safely symlink /var/cache/apt/archives to /media/mmc2/.apt-archive-cache on my n810?15:30
aquatixi set the appmanager to not clear its cache15:30
GeneralAntillesFor apt-get or for Application manager?15:31
aquatixapt-get uses .apt-archive-cache it seems15:32
aquatixthe appmanager uses the /var/cacha/apt/archives one15:32
aquatixoh wait15:32
GeneralAntillesLame question.15:32
GeneralAntillesYes, you can symlink.15:32
Macerhm15:32
GeneralAntillesThat's what we did to get the Diablo SSU betas.15:32
Macerstill looking for where i can disable this :)15:32
* aquatix is confusing himself; apt uses that archives one15:32
Macerthere's like 2347329874328 things in about:config heh15:32
aquatixi uses apt-get to pull in most of the updates15:32
aquatixGeneralAntilles: well, i was thinking about fat filesystem and locks15:33
aquatixbut i think it's ok15:33
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Macerhttp://onlyubuntu.blogspot.com/2008/05/how-to-disable-smarter-address-bar-in.html15:38
Macer:) hope that works15:38
JaffaX-Fade: Ah, I know what it was - I had JavaScript disabled through the Web Dev toolbar for work and you get two copies of the heart & thumb.15:39
johnx_Macer, then it will just be dumb, but still pop up a list :)15:39
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Macerreally?15:40
GeneralAntillesJaffa, ponder on a osso-software-version-community a bit, will you?15:40
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Macerbrowser.urlbar.maxRichResults integer to 0.15:41
Macerthat should disable the list15:41
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Macerguess you were right.. but at least now it only has 1 thing.. and it doesn't keep doing it over and over15:44
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: ponder mode - engaged15:50
GeneralAntillesJaffa, hit the scrollback, but, generally, we're thinking of a community distribution of Maemo.15:51
Macermy bad.. just had to go ahead and restart it :)15:51
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X-FadeJaffa: Ponder on categories first! :)15:55
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Macerdeblet is good again :) it works great with my zimbra server.. once i get the su8w working i'll be in business16:11
johnx_Macer, great to hear!16:12
RST38hThe WDM opcode may be used on future microprocessors. It performs no operation. WDM are the initials of William D. Mensch, Jr., the founder of WDC.16:12
RST38hLovely16:12
johnx_RST38h, reminds me of thedailywtf :)16:13
RST38hyep16:13
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JaffaX-Fade: indeed16:15
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JaffaThe brown stuff's hitting the rotating air circulation device at the moment.16:17
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||cwJaffa: brownies?16:20
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Jaffa||cw: small, young, girls?16:22
||cwbrown stuff...16:23
||cwnot so sure that girls hitting a fan would remain brown...16:23
lcukjaffa, at work or in hobby16:30
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TannHello16:31
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TannI was wondering if anyone knew how to setup gizmo with the built in instant messaging client.16:33
florianhi Tann16:33
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Jaffalcuk: work, fortunately.16:38
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lcukphew jaffa, make sure you hide the evidence ;) and blame a coworker :P16:42
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lcukbbl16:44
Macerhm16:47
Macernewegg and tigerdirect are sold out of n810s16:47
aquatixMacer: amazon?16:47
Macerhaven't looked yet16:47
Macerwonder if they are sold out because they are in that high of a demand or because they are in short production16:48
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Jaffalcuk: they *are* the problem, after all16:50
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MangoFusion#include <n900-conspiracy-theory.h>16:54
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RST38hJaffa: Something is happening again?16:59
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melmothjuste updated the n810...let see if it...works.17:04
* melmoth cross fingers17:04
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melmoth\o/17:05
* melmoth breath again17:05
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Komzpahi all. I'd like to have Belarusian (be) locale on my n800. where could I get .pot-files for translation?17:38
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X-FadeKomzpa: I think you have to make them yourself. As you seem to be the first one from Belarus I see here.17:39
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X-FadeOh, you want to do translation?17:39
Komzpayes.17:40
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X-FadeKomzpa: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_localization_bora.html might be interesting.17:43
X-FadeMore recent version: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_localization_how-to.html17:44
X-FadeHmm something happened to the last one.17:45
qwerty12Is the webkit in extras only in chinook extras?17:51
X-Fadeqwerty12: It is also in the qt4 packages.17:52
KomzpaX-Fade: ok, good, but question about .pot-files is still here.17:52
X-Fadein -devel.17:52
qwerty12X-Fade, Ok, thanks17:52
qwerty12Komzpa, locale files are all over the place in maemo :/17:52
X-FadeKomzpa: Yes, it seems so.17:52
qwerty12Komzpa, I'll try and find some for maemo17:53
qwerty12Komzpa, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/p/posix-locales/17:53
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trenkaqwerty12: it's a completly different stuff17:54
qwerty12Komzpa, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/h/hildon-fm-l10n-public/ - locales for file manager17:54
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qwerty12trenka, yeah, gathered, but figured it may help anyway17:54
trenkathis what he was asking17:54
qwerty12http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/h/hildon-application-manager-l10n-public/ - for application manager17:54
qwerty12etc17:54
Komzpaokay, where should I send translations back? :)17:55
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AStormhello17:55
lopzhola17:56
AStormis someone around able to port Quassel (at least client) to meamo?17:56
AStormit uses Qt417:56
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teprrrI'm sure there's people around who are able to do the port.. though it's other thing whether anyone is working on that17:57
Mekjust compiling it for maemo is probably trivial, but would the UI work well on the small screen?17:57
teprrrbut iirc there was some ongoing efforts to port it..17:57
AStormwell, it needs qt4 and maybe slight hildonization... it's early devel anyway17:57
qwerty12~kill windowblinds. stupid piece of shit killed my uxtheme patching17:57
* infobot shoots a super-inverse pseudoquark gun at windowblinds. stupid piece of shit killed my uxtheme patching17:57
AStormMek: it will, if XChat does, then quassel will too17:57
teprrrMek, yeah, mostly ui stuff I think17:57
qwerty12AStorm, XChat was hildonised for the tablets however17:58
AStormonly in a minor way I guess17:58
Mekquassel has the advantage that qt does quite a lot of the hildonization automatically17:58
AStormyes17:59
AStormand it's much better than some other irc client over ssh17:59
AStormand faster than vnc or rdesktop17:59
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teprrrbtw, is there some hildon specific qt classes already available?18:01
MekI think there are some classes for input method stuff18:01
Mekbut apart from that I don't think anything special is needed18:01
AStormfremantle is supposed to bring better qt integration (heh, Trolltech is Nokia's ;P)18:02
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teprrryeah, hmm18:02
bef0rdhttp://qt4.garage.maemo.org/18:02
teprrrjust thinking about what should I code for a programming exercise for a unix programming course :P18:03
teprrryeah, I know that garage stuff :P18:03
Komzpahow could I set be_BY locale as default on my tablet? It's not on a list in preferences.18:03
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MekI guess one reason why there might not bee a quassel package in extras(-devel) yet is that currently cmake and Qt don't mix very well in the autobuilder/qemu...18:04
teprrroh, there's some new wikipage: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon18:05
bef0rdhttp://qt4.garage.maemo.org/screenshots.html18:05
bef0rdnice, qt4 got hildon menus working too18:05
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teprrryup, seems so :p18:07
Mekyeah, qt has taken tha approach of just hildonizgin Qt instead of having to hildonize every Qt application (contrary to the gtk aproach I think)18:08
EgSAStorm: the regular quassel sources compile fine for maemo18:08
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EgShttp://egs.name/dev/quasselclient <--- quassel for maemo... though no installer or anything like that... so you need to pull in the qt 4 deps manually18:09
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Mekmy quassel .deb is nearly finished too :P18:10
EgSMek: that's great! I have no clue about packaging and stuff like that... I just compiled it to see if it works18:11
teprrrMek, and imho that's the way to go.. using themeing and stuff for everything at once :P18:11
teprrreases the pain of 3rd party qt (and kde) devels while porting stuff over18:11
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Mekhttp://93.157.1.37/~marijn/maemo/binary/quassel_0.3.0-0ubuntu4~hardy1_armel.deb (and quassel-core and quassel-client), untested though :)18:16
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biiterum.. je tu nekdo z cesky republiky?18:18
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qwerty12test18:20
Mektest failed :P18:20
qwerty12oh noez :P18:20
qwerty12Meh, DNS Entries set to your old router and static ip conflict = dodgy internet in linux >.<18:21
johnx_static IP conflict used to be an ugly crash in windows :)18:22
qwerty12Heh, yeah, ran into one recently at school :)18:22
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JaffaI am inwincable18:33
KotCzarnywinces?18:34
* qwerty12 shoots Jaffa18:34
* Jaffa strongly agrees with the Hildonising Qt approach, rather than Hildonising every Qt app.18:34
Jaffaqwerty12: liquid nitrogen would be more appropriate, I think </GoldenEye>18:34
* KotCzarny prefers light apps and deps18:34
qwerty12Hehe :)18:34
KotCzarnyalso nitrogen + shooting afterwards can also be funny18:35
* qwerty12 admits that I've never seen GoldenEye :/. I think the only Bond I've seen is Casino Royale >.<18:35
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johnx_qwerty12, good choice18:42
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qwerty12:)18:43
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JaffaMight be interesting to somehow use everywhere on the tablet: http://ajaxian.com/archives/i-like-big-targets18:48
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qwerty12"I like big……" - Seriously...18:48
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bigbrova1hi everybody18:51
KotCzarny- everybody: No such nick/channel18:51
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bigbrova1.18:58
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AStormKotCzarny: if you have spare time, could you build quassel for maemo?18:59
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KotCzarnyi'm in waking up mode still19:00
qwerty12AStorm: EgS linked you to a binary for maemo19:00
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AStormqwerty12: really?19:00
qwerty12AStorm: yeah. I can't give you the link as I was in windows when I saw it19:00
MekAStorm: and I linked to .debs19:00
EgS[17:09:57] <EgS> http://egs.name/dev/quasselclient <--- quassel for maemo... though no installer or anything like that... so you need to pull in the qt 4 deps manually19:00
MekAStorm: http://93.157.1.37/~marijn/maemo/binary/quassel_0.3.0-0ubuntu4~hardy1_armel.deb (and quassel-core and quassel-client), untested though :)19:01
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AStormwill that work on maemo at all? :>19:01
EgSAStorm: if there is interesst in it I can put a quasselclient binary for maemo in our nightly builds19:02
Mekthose are maemo debs I just built19:02
Mekjust based on the ubuntu packages19:02
Mekubuntu source packages that is19:02
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EgSAStorm: jeah it works... though I think it needs some tweaking... should probably pull in less backlog then the desktop client19:03
EgSand the settings dialog pretty... *cough* cramped :)19:03
AStormI'll check it out (after tinyurl and type on n810 ;P)19:04
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* Jaffa resorts to Google to find out what quassel *is*19:06
Mekquassel is an Qt4 based irc client :)19:06
KotCzarnyheh19:06
JaffaOooh, detaching.19:07
EgSwith a split client / core architecture so it's like irssi + screen in a gui19:07
JaffaNice19:07
KotCzarnyhmm, interesting19:07
KotCzarnydoes it have other toolkins clients too?19:07
JaffaIs there an ncurses client for the core?19:07
KotCzarnytoolkits19:07
qwerty12Sounds nice actually, may try it out on the desktop :)19:07
JaffaSnappsih19:07
EgSKotCzarny: nope19:07
AStormnot yet19:08
AStormyou can write one :>19:08
KotCzarnyhehe19:08
JaffaHmm. Running a highly visible IRC client at work's not really viable; a nice small screen window is :)19:08
KotCzarnybut yes, having core--client arch is nice in any program19:08
AStormnot always19:08
EgSJaffa: no curses client... though we offer statically linked windows build (just download and run it), pre build mac os client and our linux client managed to slip into the major distros19:08
AStormgraphi19:08
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AStormpointless for graphics editors :>19:09
KotCzarnyastorm: not true19:09
KotCzarnycommand line scripts19:09
KotCzarnysee gimp19:09
KotCzarny:)19:09
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AStormnot client-server :>19:09
dick-richardsonI broke apt...I removed /var/cache/apt/archives/partial and now it won't install anything19:09
KotCzarnywell, but illustrates that it could be useful19:09
KotCzarny:)19:09
qwerty12dick-richardson: just mkdir it as root19:10
dick-richardsonjust creating the directory doesn't work19:10
dick-richardsonas root19:10
qwerty12worked for me when I did it :/19:10
KotCzarnydr: what's the error message?19:10
KotCzarnyusing apt-get19:10
dick-richardsonwhat file perms did you give it?19:10
dick-richardsonE: Archive directory /var/cache/apt/archives/partial is missing.19:11
AStormmaybe you've made a typo?19:11
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dick-richardsonnot beyond me...lemme try again19:12
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dick-richardsonchmodding it to 777 fixed it :)19:13
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dick-richardsonapt-cache clean would be good to have19:15
qwerty12?19:15
qwerty12I thought it was apt-get clean?19:15
qwerty12Ah, I see what you mean.19:16
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dick-richardsonbackup19:19
* KotCzarny sends backup19:19
dick-richardsoner...thought I was at the terminal...sorry19:20
L0cutusre19:20
KotCzarnysometimes it makes no difference19:20
L0cutusis possible to 'activate' a wifi connection via commandline ?19:20
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AStormhrw|gone: when you're back, could you extend your QWERTZ keyboard layout with chr+t as ź?19:20
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hrw|goneAStorm: qwertz is not mine19:23
AStorm(or maybe chr+u)19:23
AStormhmm? so whose?19:24
hrw|gonepawel dys?19:24
hrw|goneAStorm: n810.pl team19:24
KotCzarnyO.o19:24
AStormah, I thought that was you... my mistake :)19:24
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hrw|gonebye19:24
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matanL0cutus: If it is already configured, dbus-send --type=method_call --system --dest=com.nokia.icd /com/nokia/icd com.nokia.icd.connect string:$1 uint32:019:25
dick-richardsonis there an easy way to view the alt-text for images?19:26
dick-richardsonrather than wget-ing the index file :P19:26
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L0cutusmatan, yes, already cfg, thanks, i'll try :)19:52
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* lcuk is hungry20:01
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KotCzarnygot kitchen lock?20:01
* moontiger munches trail mix20:02
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kulvehttp://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12700&contentId=2745820:12
kulve"To further enable UI, gaming or graphics centric applications development on the OMAP architecture, TI and Imagination offers OMAP processor-based Graphics SDK and Tools that are available for download via extranet."20:12
KotCzarnyhrm20:12
AStormdid anyone else notice that diablo improved battery life? :P20:12
KotCzarnykulve, but isn't it that nokia will have to provide libs?20:13
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KotCzarnyi saw that page before20:13
AStormexcept that page lies20:13
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AStormit's all NDAized20:13
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KotCzarnythat too, probably20:14
derfIt seems to be talking about emulation for testing, and specifically says OMAP 2420 is not supported in Linux.20:14
KotCzarnyemulation and testing is not that important20:15
derfNo kidding.20:15
KotCzarnyseriously.20:15
KotCzarnyand ti stated numerous times that it's nokia who has to provide libs and kernel module20:15
AStormyes yes20:16
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AStormexcept they can't open the module ;P20:16
KotCzarnythey don't even provide binary one :P20:16
AStormand they have to modify it to work well with epson chip20:16
AStormok, where do I get libqt4* stuff from?20:17
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AStorm(hildonized)20:17
Mekextras-devel20:18
AStormhmmh :) ok, I'll try it20:18
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bef0rdI'd like to get one of those beagleboards with OMAP3530 :P20:19
AStormthey are expensive :|20:19
Navibeagleboards aren't that expensive20:19
Stskeeps120$ or how was it?20:20
johnx_$150 is pretty reasonable compared to what older devboards that were half as fast used to cost20:20
Stskeepsdirt cheap for the stuff you're getting20:20
Stskeepslook at how expensive VIA Mini itx boards are :P20:20
KotCzarnywell20:21
KotCzarnybut you have to provide your own casing20:21
KotCzarnywhich wouldn't be that sexy20:21
johnx_unless you put some skill and/or effort into it20:21
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Stskeepswe'll be having a professor in architecture make one for my work20:21
Stskeeps:P20:21
KotCzarnythat assuming one has carpentry skills20:21
StskeepsKotCzarny: casing exists though20:22
johnx_do they have spots for screws?20:22
KotCzarnystskeeps, link?20:22
Stskeepshttp://www.specialcomp.com/beagleboard/index.htm20:22
* johnx_ pictures a beagleboard samndwiched between two pieces of plexiglass20:22
johnx_or that would work too20:23
johnx_:P20:23
Navijohnx_: you're a whore for plexiglass20:23
KotCzarnyno lcd, huh20:23
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johnx_Navi, nah, I'm a whore for lexan. that stuff rawks20:23
Stskeepsyeah, connect with hdmi :P20:23
johnx_Navi, I showed you my old car, right?20:23
Navi:P20:23
NaviNope20:23
KotCzarnyplexi car?20:24
KotCzarnyO.o20:24
AStormfunny, my n810 gps is grabbing a sat in an antique brick building ;P and I'm at 1st floor20:24
AStormno fix though ;P20:24
johnx_Navi, behold and be terrified: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/compdscn2966.jpg20:24
NaviYou're a horrible person20:25
Navidie20:25
bef0rdlol20:25
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johnx_Navi, I drove it 1,000 miles like that20:25
Navi>_>20:25
KotCzarnylol20:25
AStormwhat a fashion statement ;)20:26
johnx_well...I got a great deal on it because it had been involved in a *little* fire. some things needed to be ... repaired before I could drive it home...from San Francisco to Seattle20:26
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johnx_the awesome part was busting the rest of the ruined windshield out in a Home Depot parking lot, before I had actually bought the title to it20:27
Navi:/20:27
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johnx_Navi, I took good care of it after buying it. As far as I know someone else is still driving it20:29
* lcuk burps20:30
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AStormMek: no libqt* in extras-devel of diablo20:30
MekAStorm: hmm? http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/q/qt4-x11/ lists plenty of packages20:31
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GNUtonHi there20:31
jotthey gnuton20:32
Mekhi GNUton20:32
GNUtonhey jott! :)20:32
GNUtonhey Mek!:20:32
GNUtonwhat's the status of QMake guys?20:33
jottjust compiled the vanilla 4.5 snapshot of today :)20:33
GNUtonjott: Oh wonderfull20:33
GNUtonjott: do you have tried it on the device?20:33
jotta bit of troubles though.20:33
jottyes.20:33
GNUtonjott: the GV is more faster than before or not?20:33
AStormMek: weird, it still says these are missing20:34
jotti have not run many tests.20:34
jottbut will try.20:34
GNUtonjott: there is a example in the demo module20:34
jottyer.20:34
GNUtonyou can use it to test the GV20:34
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* jott starts with colling mice :)20:35
GNUtonyes it is!20:35
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jottcolliding that is20:35
GNUtonI remember that colliding mice was really slow.20:35
GNUtonjott: Do you have checked the code in order to see if there are many changes?20:36
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MangoFusionwow, that beagleboard case rocks20:37
bef0rdAStorm, http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/qt4-diablo-devel.install this *should* work20:37
jottGNUton: not the important ones to qimage afaict :)20:37
GNUtonIf there is a real increase of performance I guess to integrate it in our port.20:37
jotti haven't checked qgv.20:37
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GNUtonk20:37
jotterm qpixmap/qimage20:37
AStormMek: funny, the packages are there, but application manager says they're not available or whatnot20:37
jottso afaict it will still convert to 32bpp :(20:38
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GNUtonjott: :(20:38
jottbut overall widget performance has increased20:38
MekAStorm: and you're sure you have extras-devel enabled? (perhaps the recent upgrade disabled it?)20:38
GNUtonjott: So I need to try it! :)20:38
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AStormI have it enabled. and the libqt* packages show up20:39
jottGNUton: yeah i wonder how we should proceed. as in backport the important changes to 4.4 or adapt the hildon stuff to work with 4.5.20:40
GNUtonAStorm: the application installer shows to you only the packages with the section "user/$subsection"20:40
AStormthe .install file tries to add it again, wth?20:40
AStormGNUton: not in redpill20:40
jottin the end the overall work should be less if we directly integrate in 4.5 :)20:40
GNUtonjott: I guess that moving the stuff to the 4.5 is more easier than backport the 4.5 changes to the 4.420:41
jottyer20:41
jotti agree20:41
lcukjott, how much of a difference does cpufreq changes effect qt?20:41
GNUtonjott: I don't know if is it stable... or not.20:41
jottlcuk: good question.20:41
* lcuk uses his words wisely ;)20:42
L0cutusmmm i can't 'see' my mmc1 anymore after a crash even i have fscked it20:42
GNUtonHi lubyou! :)20:42
L0cutusany idea ?20:42
AStormMek: btw, care to build svn snapshot of quassel too? (because it's been improved, e.g. clickable urls)20:42
KotCzarnyL0cutus: df shows it mounted?20:42
GNUtonlcuk: what do you mean with cpufreq? do you want to scale the cpu frequency?20:43
L0cutusno KotCzarny20:43
L0cutusonly mmc2 is mounte20:43
L0cutusd20:43
KotCzarnyL0cutus: then just open/close battery cover20:43
KotCzarnyor something20:43
KotCzarnyor mount manually20:43
L0cutusi have n80020:43
KotCzarnyi know20:43
GNUtonquassel? I want quassel on my device!! :)20:43
lcukgnuton, hi btw, in my coding with liqbase I Have noticed certain things can gain speed by quite a high margin if the cpu is set to performance20:43
L0cutusthe mmc1 is on the 'border' not on the back20:43
KotCzarnythen open/close it's switch20:44
lcukin the default "ondemand" setting the cpu slows back down as soon as you lift your stylus20:44
* moontiger sips tea20:44
* lcuk waves atall his buddies20:44
L0cutusanyway even  removed/inserted, my n800 give me the message 'memory card available'20:44
GNUtonlcuk: of course, the problem is that switching to performance the device use a lot of power..20:44
L0cutusbut it doesn't mount it20:44
lcukgnuton, i use performance all day long20:44
KotCzarnyL0cutus: dmesg|tail20:44
KotCzarnymaybe it's totally unusable20:45
KotCzarny:>20:45
lcukits worth the question20:45
GNUtonlcuk: O_o20:45
AStormMek: it is still failing20:45
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AStormI'll try with apt directly20:45
GNUtonlcuk: at nokia there are people who can kill me if the cursor blink too much in Qt!!20:45
lcukgnuton, the cpu still has idle states and things and it manages to get things done quicker - obviously that depends on tasks but give it a try - its a simple flip switch test that you could then look more closely at if it works20:46
jottGNUton: tell those people that the cursor blinks at the desktop search widget :p20:46
lcukgnuton, thats a different issue - thats sending data to a whole other component20:46
lcukyer i noticed that jott20:46
jott(the hildon one)20:46
KotCzarnyblinking is abomination20:46
KotCzarny:>20:46
jottand take your camera with you for extra fun with the fatality move :D20:46
L0cutusi receive several EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled20:47
GNUtonjott: :)20:47
lcukgnuton, refreshing the screen means the LCD controller is awake and busy moving tonnes of data around, but general cpu processing may be different20:47
KotCzarnyL0cutus: look through whole output20:47
KotCzarnystarting from the end20:47
AStormMek: apt-get says "depends libqt4... but is not going to be installed"20:47
AStormwth20:47
lcukliqbase includes a big CPU settings area which is easily accessible and lets the user decide :)20:47
L0cutusdunno what is this messammci-omap mmci-omap.1:command timeout (CMD8)20:47
KotCzarnyit's when you take out the card20:48
KotCzarnynormal20:48
GNUtonlcuk: ok, but how many hour more can you gain switching your device to power save?20:48
jottAStorm: which package are you trying to install?20:48
lcuka shit load - but everything goes real slow20:48
AStormjott: quassel20:48
L0cutusKotCzarny, no other message about my card20:48
lcukgnuton, i should have a package in the next 2-3 days for liqbase, you can then see the differences firsthand20:49
jottAStorm: and quassel depends on what lib?20:49
KotCzarnyL0cutus: it's vfat, right?20:49
L0cutuson my pc i can see it20:49
MekAStorm: hmm... probably there is some other dependency that I missed :)20:49
L0cutusno, ext220:49
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lcukif you are brave you can build from source20:49
AStormlooks like qt is not able to install, masked or sth20:49
* GNUton learned to pronunce "quassel" thanks to Jott!:)20:49
KotCzarnyL0cutus: try to mount it manually then20:49
AStormMek: no no, the problem is not that it doesn't find these20:49
AStormit doesn't "want" to install them20:49
AStormas if these are locked or sth20:49
L0cutusKotCzarny, '...failed'20:50
KotCzarnymissing modules?20:50
lcukbroken memory card..20:50
lcuk?20:50
jottAStorm: there is no "libqt4" package.. just "libqt4-gui" / "libqt4-core" / etc20:50
KotCzarnyl0cutus: lsmod|grep ext220:50
L0cutusbefore the crash it worker ok20:50
AStormjott: yes, it deps on libqt4-{dbus,network,sql,sql-sqlite} and libqt{core,gui}420:51
L0cutusKotCzarny, no result20:51
L0cutusno module20:51
KotCzarnythen load module first20:51
AStormand apt says "not going to be installed"20:51
KotCzarnyor copy them from /mnt/initfs to /lib/modules20:51
KotCzarnyand then it will load automatically20:51
jottcan you apt-get install libqtgui4 ?20:51
L0cutusok, thanks, i try20:51
jottAStorm: ^^20:52
AStormjott: says same for libaudio2 and libqtcore420:52
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X-FadeGNUton: Thanks for closing the qt4 repo on garage btw! :)20:53
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lcukevening X-Fade :)20:53
X-FadeGNUton: You were the second green bar in: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories ;)20:54
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Mouseywhy would that ever be a good idea?20:54
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X-FadeHi lcuk. You didn't remove your admin again, did you? :)20:54
AStormjott: ahha! previous failed install of quassel (w/o extras) made a mess20:54
AStormhad to remove quassel :>20:54
Mekyay, my repository is so external it isn't even in that list :)20:54
lcukheh no, and I even managed to push new source to the repo :)20:54
Stskeepswoo hoo, i'm not on that list20:55
Stskeeps:P20:55
X-Fadelcuk: Good ;)20:55
X-FadeStskeeps: Well, I don't expect your debian packages to be in extras ;)20:55
lcukheh yeah, i blame the general for flustering me20:55
X-Fadelcuk: Shotgun .. foot .. aim ;)20:55
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johnx_lcuk, these are serious accusations. can you backup your claims of this... "flustering"?20:56
StskeepsX-Fade: honestly, if debootstrap, zenity and roxterm gets in, i'd push deblet installer to extras20:56
lcukwell it was listing what we do - i am a developer. :$20:56
StskeepsX-Fade: and some of the stuff from tools, like, .. binutils20:56
* lcuk whistles quietly20:56
X-FadeStskeeps: Oh sure. But I don't expect the complete debian repo in there ;)20:56
Stskeepsofcourse not20:56
L0cutusKotCzarny, modprobe: cannot parse modules.dep20:57
AStormI guess I'll have to install qt manually20:57
lcukand besides X-Fade it needs more rolesany project jott is involved in need to list him as "superhero"20:57
X-FadeStskeeps: But sure, add all useful applications.20:57
KotCzarnyL0cutus: depmod -a20:57
X-Fadelcuk: Hmm I guess we don't have that role yet.20:57
L0cutusahem20:58
KotCzarnyL0cutus: btw. did you put them in the right place?20:58
L0cutus-sh: depmod: not found20:58
L0cutus:)20:58
KotCzarny /lib/modules/kernel_version/ ?20:58
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KotCzarnyin the worst case just use insmod20:58
L0cutusi haven't a /lib/modules directory :(20:59
KotCzarnyi forget what module ext2 depends on20:59
KotCzarny*forgot20:59
johnx_mbcache20:59
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johnx_L0cutus, it's in initfs20:59
johnx_insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/$(uname -r)/mbcache.ko21:00
johnx_repeat for ext2.ko21:00
KotCzarnycp -a /mnt/initfs/lib/modules /lib21:00
KotCzarnyshould do the trick21:00
johnx_or ln to save valueable space21:00
L0cutusok, i try21:00
KotCzarnyyeah, ln -s would work too21:00
AStormok, now installing qt4-qtconfig (pulls all the qt it seems) plus libqt4-sql-sqlite :>21:01
KotCzarnyjohnx: i don't care about space because i run os from sd21:01
KotCzarny:)21:01
johnx_KotCzarny, not everyone doe21:01
johnx_s21:01
GNUtonAStorm: are you pushing quassel in extra-devel?21:01
* lcuk hasnt seen kot runnin anything on a tablet for months :P21:01
KotCzarnybut evveryone is advised to do so21:01
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johnx_KotCzarny, I advise them to run debian off of SD :)21:01
KotCzarnylcuk: that's because you don't see me in the loo :P21:01
lcukheh - contact nokia and tell them about that usage case21:02
johnx_KotCzarny, you've been in the loo for months? I'm sorry to hear that...21:02
KotCzarny:)21:02
KotCzarnyno21:02
KotCzarnylcuk didn't see me there21:02
L0cutusok21:02
KotCzarnywhich doesn't imply me not being there21:02
L0cutusext2 is on21:02
KotCzarny:)21:02
lcuk"dear nokia, i was using my n810 whilst on the latrine, however due to an unfortunate mishap i dropped it down the bowl.  could you tell me how much to replace the screen and also extract bits from the cameraport21:03
L0cutusbut why it doesn't automount anymore ?21:03
KotCzarnyL0cutus: because it need module to be loade3d?21:03
KotCzarny*needs21:03
L0cutusbefore the crash it does21:03
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KotCzarnymaybe you have loaded it manually21:04
KotCzarnyand forgot21:04
L0cutusi haven't load manually the module21:04
L0cutusnono21:04
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KotCzarnyyou did21:04
L0cutusjust reinstalled my diablo21:04
KotCzarnybecause nothing autoloads ext2 by default21:04
* L0cutus investigate :)21:05
L0cutusthanks for now !21:05
johnx_KotCzarny, it used to at some point21:05
X-FadeMek: I gess we need cmake in extras-devel first?21:05
MekX-Fade: cmake is in extras-devel already...21:06
X-FadeMek: Then you are not using it in Build-Depends?21:06
KotCzarnyjohnx: only if you had custom initfs?21:06
johnx_KotCzarny, that would be a negative21:06
AStormand now quassel is installing21:06
MekX-Fade: but the cdbs stuff for cmake is not getting installed somehow...21:06
MekI guess the cdbs version in scratchbox is too old or something..21:07
jottMek: you need to force the cdbs version.21:07
X-FadeMek: Hmm indeed. It is there. Weird.21:07
Mekjott: how do you force that?21:07
X-FadeMek: like: debhelper (>= 5)21:08
jottjust with (>= 0.45)21:08
jott(or better the right version)21:08
Mek:)21:08
KotCzarnyyawn.21:08
jottMek: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/c/cdbs/21:09
jott0.4.52 it is :)21:09
jotti was close21:09
Mekokay :) thanks21:09
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: You didn't see it coming, but there it is: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2008-October/002875.html21:18
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Or at least the start ;)21:19
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AStormGNUton: not pushing yet, but it can surely go there :)21:22
AStormworks after manual installation of all the qt :P21:22
AStormexcept I have to remember that quassel password I just set21:23
jottwell i guess we just solved the show-stopper for getting it in extras :)21:23
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AStormsays to me "username/password combination could not be found in the database:21:25
AStormmy quassel core is latest svn21:25
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zapHurray, I recovered from post-SSU reboot loop21:31
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AStormMek: could you please build 0.3.0.2 of quasselclient?21:33
johnx_zap, neat trick. how'd you manage?21:34
zapinstalled bootmenu for the new initfs21:34
zapthen mounted the root jffs2, chrooted to it21:34
zapand did dpkg --configure --pending21:34
trenkazap: it's easy, just dpkg --configure -a21:34
zapyep21:34
zapI don't know why, but app manager did not configured all packages21:34
johnx_that's really strange that it's putting people into reboot loops. I rebooted during my upgrade process and it just finished on the next boot...21:35
johnx_accidentally of course21:35
trenkapeople says most probably because of space21:35
KotCzarnythose.. hackers!21:35
zapit rebooted for me when the blue progress bar was about 1cm away from the right edge of the screen21:35
zapI have 25Mb free on rootfs21:36
zapstill, mce doesn't want to --configure21:36
zapeven after I booted correctly21:37
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trenkayes, I noticed21:39
zapit happens even if you installed the SSU normally?21:39
AStormheh, I had 0 problems with the update21:40
trenkano, I just helped to one friend to recover once21:40
RST38hmoo all21:40
trenkaI mean, I did not check the normal update21:40
zapin fact, mce is the only package left unconfigured21:40
nelsonanybody know if it's possible to get a new battery door cover?21:40
jotti also had no problem with the update. fortunately i never use the app manager :)21:40
nelsonif, say, I experiment with mine by gluing an external battery to it, I want to know that I can replace it.21:41
ds3\21:41
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nelsonthese transatlantic flights are a bit much without an external battery.21:41
ion_cu_vacahi all.21:41
jottnelson: i am sure it's possible. it's probably just a matter of price and knowing where to get it ;)21:41
nelsonjott: yeah, I was just wondering if anybody had tried it yet.21:42
zapAre there any solution (except unlocking osso-software) to fix the pre-installed-documentation-rx44 problem?21:42
jottnelson: there is a ready made high capacity battery.21:42
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ion_cu_vacaso, I'm working on a test app in the scratch box... what rights the app has after installing? The app tries to delete a .desktop file and on the tablet the delete fails...21:43
ion_cu_vacaany ideas?21:43
zapyou can't delete anything outside of /tmp and /home/user21:45
zapeverything else is owned by root21:45
ion_cu_vacaand there is no way around it?21:45
zapnope21:45
zapyou're most probably doing something wrong21:45
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KotCzarny:>21:46
zapyou don't have to delete anything21:46
johnx_ion_cu_vaca, why do you need to delete that file?21:46
nelsonjott: URL?21:46
ion_cu_vacawell, zap is right that deleting that file is not the right thing to do, but I want to do it anyway... I want to automate the change mac for the wayfinder after a new install (I'm sick of doing it in terminal)...21:48
ion_cu_vaca:-)21:48
ion_cu_vacapssst21:48
zapthen do it as root21:48
zapinstall some package which gives you the right to switch into the root account21:48
ion_cu_vacathe app works fine so far, but I have to delete the .desktop by hand... and then my app will create the new one21:49
johnx_ion_cu_vaca, run your app with set-uid permissions21:49
zapion_cu_vaca: another possibility is to set up a cron task, which will run your app once a week21:50
zapyou won't have even to bother about it21:50
ion_cu_vacajohnx_, i don't know what is that, i'm a windows programmer... so I don't know exactly what set-uid is21:50
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woglindejo21:50
johnx_ion_cu_vaca, basically it makes the app run with root aka administrator permissions. which is fine if it's just for you21:51
ion_cu_vacaand how do I do that?21:51
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johnx_chown root my-file21:52
johnx_chmod u+s my-file21:52
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johnx_basically "change the owner to root" then "give the program the permissions of whoever owns it, rather than whoever runs it"21:52
ion_cu_vacawell, I made a .deb, I actually install my app on the tablet. can I do that so when I install the .deb the app is owned by root?21:53
johnx_ion_cu_vaca, yes, just do that before you make the deb21:54
zapthat's not enough21:54
nelsonjott: Google doesn't know of a high capacity BP-4L.21:54
||cwthe ownership s based on the UID of the files you package21:54
ion_cu_vacaohh, I understand. I pack in the deb the exe with the root permisions21:54
zapyour program also has to call seteuid(0) to get root perms21:54
ion_cu_vacaright?21:54
zapwith suid permissions21:54
ion_cu_vacasuid21:54
||cwhe didn't run as root, just owned by root21:54
ion_cu_vacaok, I'll try21:55
johnx_oops...sorry for confusion21:55
zapthe suid bits says that your program *can* gain root priviledges if it calls a special function called seteuid()21:55
johnx_ion_cu_vaca, is this c code or just a shell script?21:55
jottnelson: it wasn't a bp-4l.. erm21:56
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ion_cu_vacajohnx_ c21:56
nelsonjott: external battery?21:57
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jottnelson: http://shop.eten.hu/mugen-power-3600mah-extended-battery-for-nokia-n810-with-battery-door-blue-p-475.html21:59
jottthis one.21:59
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nelsonjott: thanks, that looks very cute!22:05
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nelsonhrm.  reflashed with the update from a day or two ago and .... I get continual reboots.  Anybody else seen this?22:11
woglindenelosn I am not22:11
nelsongood thing /me did a backup, eh?22:12
woglindebut I updated via apt22:12
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nelsonI updated using the GUI.22:13
ion_cu_vaca hmm, what's the root password for the Maemo SDK VMWare Appliance?22:14
ion_cu_vacanever mind22:15
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jottnelson: there seem to be lots of people having problems.22:18
jottas woglinde i updated via apt and had no troubles :)22:18
jotti guess only people using app manager have serious problems :p22:19
nelsonfrom the x terminal or via ssh'ing in?22:19
jottssh/screen22:19
jotticd2 installation will drop the connection :)22:19
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riotthe pandora really looks way interesting..22:25
riotand i just got a 810.. :(22:25
riotwho wants some?22:25
KotCzarnyhow much?22:25
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johnx_riot, the N810 is a perfectly cromulent device...and it's going to be a lot more polished than the pandora will for quite a while22:26
ion_cu_vacaok, one more question22:26
KotCzarnynot to mention it's smaller too22:26
KotCzarny:)22:27
riotKotCzarny: thats the only real argument22:27
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MangoFusionmight as well just get a netbook ;)22:27
KotCzarnywell22:27
riotthe pandora is waay faster, i'd say22:27
KotCzarnyif you wanted gaming machine, then you should get psp22:27
ion_cu_vacaI had to reflash my tablet and now I can't ssh from linux in it because the rsa key was changed22:27
riotnot buying this for gaming.22:27
riotMangoFusion: netbook doesn't fit in my pockets22:27
riotpandora might22:28
KotCzarnyriot: what is your usage case then?22:28
MangoFusionget bigger pockets22:28
MangoFusion:)22:28
||cwion_cu_vaca: delete the key from the file, the error tells you the file name and the line number22:28
johnx_ion_cu_vaca, do like it says in linux, open up your ~/.ssh/known_hosts file and remove the offending line22:28
* KotCzarny has ibm x40 for mobile needs and n800 for pocket needs22:28
riotKotCzarny: gps, jabber, browser, mail, various linux-servers, diverse wireless operations (like warwalking)22:28
riotKotCzarny: bigger pockets are way unattractive22:29
KotCzarnyriot, then depending on your browser needs n810 is just perfect22:29
riotKotCzarny: hmm. Waay slow.22:29
riotand not very comfy22:29
riotscrolling is dumb as brick22:29
riotapart from that, its nice as it is gecko22:30
johnx_riot, compared to a desktop/laptop? or compared to some other device?22:30
rioti got adblock :D22:30
KotCzarnythen wait for liqbrowser22:30
johnx_adblock slows it down a lot...22:30
* lcuk looks around22:30
KotCzarnyi'm going to coerce him to make liqbase + gecko mix22:30
riotand speeds it up. Many pages won't even work without adblock. Flash is a browserkiller22:30
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riotjohnx_: nice use of "cromulent" :D22:31
johnx_riot, yeah, I disable flash on anything I touch22:31
lcukdont need to convince me kot, just find someone confident and comfortable with a www rendering engine and ill collaborate and give whatever assistance i can22:31
KotCzarnywell22:31
lcukive been looking for something for a while22:31
KotCzarnyme may talk to current browser maintainer22:31
riotjohnx_: i really only use it for youtube et al.. so I'd rather prefer a whitelist-system - but i don't have such a thing. You know something?22:31
johnx_webkit can render onto an opengl surface...22:31
KotCzarnyor to webkit port people22:31
johnx_riot, not for microb22:31
johnx_riot, I use flashblock on the desktop22:31
lcukfair enough, if you have old middle none released sources you will see theres the startings of a html parser ;)22:31
riotjohnx_: yea, noscript + adblock here22:32
KotCzarny:)22:32
riotstill, the pandora looks veeery interesting22:32
KotCzarnylcuk,  :)22:32
lcuki wanted live demo for the summit but ran out of time22:32
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johnx_riot, agreed. that's why I preordered one :)22:32
KotCzarnytables parsing will get you :>22:32
riotsad thing is the very dumb gps in the 810.. if that one would work well.. hmm things would be different22:32
lcuktheres lots of gotchas, but i wanted something workable - even if it was only handy for html book reading22:33
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lcukanyway, this is very sidtracky, ive had to give up on that stupid sshfs for tonight22:33
KotCzarnylcuk: yes, but using gecko there is a chance for full browser without compromises22:33
KotCzarny:)22:33
lcukthank you for trying though, got more important things to worry bout22:33
lcukyes kot, but that will expect lots of things which still may not exist22:34
Stskeepshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=229421&postcount=17 <- for the 770 users22:34
lcukStskeeps, w000t22:34
AStormgot quassel to work :)22:40
AStormit is *slow*, because Qt4 throws tons of debugging into to stderr22:40
jott>/dev/null ?:)22:40
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AStormwon't help I think22:48
jott2>/dev/null ?:)22:48
Stskeepshttp://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/?nda <- neat22:49
KotCzarnyall ndas suck :)22:49
EgSAStorm: I don't think it's only due to the debugging output ;)22:50
RST38hhttp://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4907WT20081001 <=== tomorrow's market crash reason22:50
AStormwell, it takes time to draw options22:51
KotCzarnyhehe22:51
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AStormwhere can I get the smaller versions of default themes?22:52
KotCzarnywanna nuvo-clear ?22:52
AStormI mean, smaller font22:53
KotCzarnyyes, it uses smaller font22:53
KotCzarny~9px22:53
Komzpahow could I type belarusian cyrillic letter ў on n800?22:53
KotCzarnyand you can also modify it per-app in .gtkrc22:53
KotCzarny(assuming you hack it in theme)22:54
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AStormbtw, is that xournal in extras-devel ok now?22:55
AStormcanola b10?22:55
johnx_looks like canola b10 isn't really ready yet22:56
johnx_or it wasn't earlier22:56
johnx_I imagine we would have heard something22:56
KotCzarnyearlier22:56
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StskeepsAStorm: i had issues with xournal a couple of days ago22:57
AStormstill one package is missing22:57
AStormpython2.5-terra22:57
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RST38hKompza: What is the problem with typing C?23:08
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* sp3000 wonders if that charset fail happened on in or out23:15
* sp3000 throws a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_short at RST38h for good measure23:15
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zapIs it possible to write a control panel plugin in python?23:20
KotCzarnyyes23:20
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zapany samples?23:20
KotCzarnyi think23:20
KotCzarnydon't remember the name23:20
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KotCzarnycould be status bar plugin, hum23:21
KotCzarnyscratch that then23:21
KotCzarny:)23:21
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AStormhmm23:23
AStormit seems that even pidgin 2.5.1 fails at gadugadu23:24
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AStormI mean, maemo one23:24
AStormworks on x86 and x86_6423:24
KotCzarnyastorm, but ekg works right?23:25
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MangoFusionnice. got a very dim screen for a second, then *poof* reboot23:29
Andy80hi all23:33
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nelsonwouldn't it be more sensible to put /var/cache/apt on /media/mmc2 ?23:40
MaceN800well.. got the su8w going in deblet23:40
MaceN800this is absolutely awesome heh23:41
KotCzarnyno, because not evey nit has /media/mmc223:41
lcuknot mmc123:41
nelsonmost everything that would go into that directory is going to land in / .23:41
MaceN800all i have to do now is figure out the dun for the phone :)23:41
KotCzarnylcuk, n800 doesn't have soldered sd23:41
lcuki kno - i meant to type "nor"23:41
KotCzarny:)23:41
* lcuk fails23:41
KotCzarnyyour fail is noted23:41
lcukdamn23:42
nelsonbut .... the n800 comes with an SD card ... so why not say "put the SD card we shipped into the slot".23:42
AStormok, the xournal in extras-devel is broken23:42
KotCzarnynelson, not evey n800 comes with a card23:42
KotCzarny;)23:42
AStormtoolbar doesn't switch pen type23:42
KotCzarnyespecially second hand ones23:42
nelsonyeah, but EVERY n800 can get their hands on an SD card.  They're available at every corner store.23:43
KotCzarnynelson, still, it's not always available23:43
KotCzarnyand i'm running os from sd23:43
KotCzarnyso i don't want it to be using any of /media/mmc* dirs23:43
nelsonKotCzarny: okay, so then the alternative is to try to do upgrades from a full partition into a full partition.23:43
KotCzarnyyou may hack it for your needs23:43
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KotCzarnyno one is stopping you23:44
KotCzarny:)23:44
nelsonof course, I'm am teh wizard.  But what about everybody else?23:44
johnx_the card in my n800 is often a from someone else's camera. I don't want random sribblings on it...23:44
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KotCzarny;)23:44
nelsonI repeat the same alternative: complete failure.23:44
KotCzarnynelson, everyone else can hack it too23:44
johnx_I'd settle for a choice: put in a card or free more space23:45
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johnx_though they wouldn't need so much space if they didn't ship the user manual with every freakin' update...23:45
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KotCzarnyeehehe23:46
nelsonyeah "insert a card with 32MB free space into the slot" is something anybody can do.23:46
lcukno they cant23:46
johnx_Warning: not enough space: "insert a card" or "cancel and free up some space"23:46
johnx_there's no reason to require people to use a card for updates if they have enough space on their tablet23:47
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nelsonflexibility is the enemy of standardization.23:47
nelsonthere's a lot to be said for everybody doing something the same way.  users can self-help; even the naive ones.23:48
johnx_ahaha23:48
KotCzarnyyes, that's why it's hacker's tablet23:48
KotCzarnynot ipod23:48
nelsonAnd we *want* to encourage a culture of self-help.23:48
KotCzarny:>23:48
nelson(sigh).23:48
johnx_right now the option is free up space or don't upgrade, but you want only your version of "flexibility"?23:48
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nelsonjohnx_: have you ever one tech support?23:49
nelson^done23:49
johnx_nelson, oh yes23:49
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johnx_I put in a card but it doesn't work!23:49
KotCzarny;)23:49
nelsonthen you know that every time you have the ask the user a question it's like biting glass.23:49
johnx_later you'll find it has random bad sectors or is generally sketchy23:49
KotCzarnyah, the sweet internet search engines23:49
KotCzarnywhat would we have done without them23:50
KotCzarny:)23:50
johnx_how many times have we had problems with SD card access on the n8x0 hardware?23:50
nelsonthat's why dpkgs have an md5sum.23:50
johnx_nelson, and you want to explain that to users?23:50
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johnx_well any card but *that* card23:50
KotCzarnyhow many n810 users don't know why their 2gb internal card is corrupting?23:50
KotCzarny:>23:50
johnx_go buy another one23:50
nelsontechnical shit not working?  No need to explain THAT to people.23:50
johnx_nono, that card must not work right with linux, get a sandisk, but not this model of sandisk23:51
johnx_ah, you're using a microsdhc card in an adapter...well make sure it's tight23:51
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johnx_no, users need to free some space. that is a concept you can teach them about at least23:51
KotCzarnyare you using right slot?23:51
KotCzarnyor left?23:51
KotCzarny:)23:51
* GeneralAntilles lights luck's hair on fire.23:51
KotCzarny\no, your right23:51
lcuksee! i told you u were evil23:52
johnx_anyways, it doesn't matter. you don't have to convince us, just nokia, so go file a bug report23:52
KotCzarnyyes, right is the one you use with spoon23:52
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KotCzarnyoh, you are left handed?23:52
KotCzarny:>23:52
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nelsonNokia's response is usually "Oh, that's not in the specification, so we can't change the software."23:53
jotteasiest solution: drop the stupid pdfs from the upgrade :)23:54
johnx_jott++23:54
GeneralAntillesjott, get to work. :P23:54
* biiter finaly ordered N810 today23:54
* jott hides23:54
nelsonyeah, everybody speaks English anyway.23:55
johnx_nelson, drop *all* the PDFS23:55
* nelson looks away while johnx_ deletes *all* the PDFs.23:55
johnx_muahaha23:55
nelson"pdfs?  what pdfs?"23:55
* johnx_ deletes all PDFs, everywhere!23:55
* nelson restores them from backup.23:56
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lcukthank got nelson, i couldnt do without the pdf newsletter i get: "midgets n cream" ?23:56
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lcukgod^23:56
nelsonI should be working.  Oh, wait, I'm compiling C++.  That qualifies as work.23:56
KotCzarnyyes23:57
* lcuk continues his slow glacial crawl to the top of the mountain23:57
* johnx_ is impressed with lcuk's mountainside internet connection23:58
lcukas i am ascending i have to go round big crags and solve stupid problems \@/23:58
johnx_I played that game at school on a Mac O_o23:58
lcuksatellite, the higher up i get the less the latency is23:58
lcukhurrah ive finally got an ssh key on n223:59
KotCzarnybut electrons are slower in lower temps23:59
KotCzarny:P23:59

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