| RST38h | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3748 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| sp3000 | redundant sp3000 is redundant | 00:00 |
| RST38h | andre,General: filed the bug. vote for it if possible. | 00:00 |
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| RST38h | ok, sleep time | 00:01 |
| andre___ | thanks | 00:01 |
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| sp3000 | ...and after 5 minutes you see the "Think the game has started yet? Think again." banner | 00:01 |
| gomiam | ok, I finally found that, despite osso-software-version-rx34 being 4.2008.36-5, the About box on the Control Panel still say sI'm at 23-14 | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | gomiam, that version field is easily corrupted. | 00:02 |
| gomiam | is that really a problem? | 00:02 |
| gomiam | oh, nice to know. | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a script to fix it that you can run, but I don't remember it off-hand. | 00:02 |
| gomiam | never mind. Knowing to apt-cache policy the version is enough for now XD | 00:03 |
| RST38h | Setting priority to "low" will leave it ignored. | 00:03 |
| RST38h | It makes sense to keep it on medium even although the bug is minor | 00:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, the bug priorities don't matter. | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most of the bugs aren't triaged by Nokia. | 00:04 |
| RST38h | oh | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | The only bugs with real priority are the website bugs. | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | The rest of them are either reporter-set or random | 00:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | they have zero correlation to internal priorities. | 00:04 |
| guerby | gomiam, about says 4.2008.23-14 and my osso-...version 1:4.2008.23-14 | 00:04 |
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| guerby | but I got no network | 00:04 |
| gomiam | guerby: I just got a 33 MB OS update | 00:05 |
| gomiam | so that might explain it | 00:05 |
| guerby | GAN800, do you know a way to launch network from the command line? | 00:05 |
| gomiam | now I'll need to check whether my N800 still falis with just one WiFi router in WPA mode XD | 00:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | /etc/init.i/icd2 restart may work | 00:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | er, init.d | 00:06 |
| gomiam | while I'm at it... is there an alternate package for mouse icons? | 00:06 |
| guerby | GeneralAntilles, let me try | 00:06 |
| guerby | GeneralAntilles, it says starting ... icd2 but nothing else happens and the net dialog is still stuck on searching | 00:08 |
| GAN800 | guerby, restart the tablet? | 00:08 |
| guerby | GAN800, I did it already twice | 00:08 |
| RST38h | GAN: Well, I hope this one is really easy to fix | 00:09 |
| prometoys | andre, sp3000, thanks, got it now :) | 00:09 |
| guerby | as process I have /usr/sbin/icd2 -10 | 00:09 |
| guerby | /sbin/udhcpc -i wlan0 .... | 00:09 |
| prometoys | good night everybody | 00:09 |
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| GAN800 | geurby, sounds like the install didn't go down so well | 00:09 |
| GAN800 | You could force a dpkg configure | 00:09 |
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| GAN800 | But I dunno | 00:10 |
| guerby | GAN800, thx again, let me try | 00:10 |
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| GAN800 | I'd make a backup and prep yourself for flashing, though. | 00:10 |
| gomiam | I'm a bit confused... it seems all my already installed apps are now to be reinstalled, even if the current version is the same as the installed one :-D | 00:10 |
| guerby | GAN800, what's the exact dpkg command line to try? | 00:10 |
| GAN800 | guerby, I'm blanking. | 00:11 |
| RST38h | gomiam: it sometimes glitches this way | 00:11 |
| RST38h | gomiam: but do make sure you reenable Diablo Extras | 00:11 |
| gomiam | RST38h: fortunately, I have the time and patience XD | 00:11 |
| gomiam | (and a Bt kbd to boot) | 00:12 |
| RST38h | you can just do "Update All" and get some tea | 00:12 |
| RST38h | BTW, is your bt kbd lagging? losing characters maybe? | 00:12 |
| gomiam | RST38h: Diablo? Shouldn't it be chinook? | 00:12 |
| gomiam | open mouth, insert foot | 00:13 |
| RST38h | You should have two Extras repos | 00:13 |
| gomiam | of course it's Diablo, Chinook is for oldies not yet updated | 00:13 |
| RST38h | One should not have anything in the distro line - this will be your current repo (i.e. diablo) | 00:13 |
| RST38h | But you should also have one with chinook in the distro line - in case you need a package that has not been moved over yet | 00:13 |
| gomiam | oh, ok | 00:14 |
| gomiam | checking.. | 00:14 |
| guerby | GAN800, some more info, I launched icd2 -l 0 | 00:14 |
| guerby | route: SIOC|ADD|DEL|RT: No such process | 00:14 |
| guerby | when I launch the net box | 00:15 |
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| gomiam | yet another question: has anybody been able to emulate F1-F12 and Home,End,et al. keys on an Ubiquio foldable bluetooth keyboard? | 00:20 |
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| gomiam | (on a N800 preferably) | 00:23 |
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| guerby | created: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3749 | 00:29 |
| Jaffa | GAN800: I think anything which has a priority of "low" may be discounted further within Nokia, but setting it above "low" doesn't seem to affect anything | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, etrunko, more blogging. :P | 00:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You even get double karma. ;) | 00:32 |
| Jaffa | :) | 00:32 |
| * Jaffa wonders why the users of ITT seem to have so many more problems with "seamless" software updates. Following random power-user instructions without knowing what they're doing? | 00:33 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Likely | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, that, and a rather extreme self-selecting sample. | 00:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd really like to pin the issues down, though. | 00:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | So I can offer more than a "reflash" to people. | 00:34 |
| Jaffa | Seems to mostly be people installing new kernels, initfses, X servers or booting off SD without understanding the impact that'll have on them. | 00:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | emjayes' packages love to break things. | 00:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre___, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3739#c3 that comment makes more sense now. | 00:37 |
| andre___ | hmm... answered that in comment 7 | 00:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | "" | 00:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Erm | 00:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | "This issue is fixed in the next SDK release maemo4.1.1 (PE2 update)." | 00:39 |
| * GeneralAntilles learns how to highlight text. | 00:39 | |
| andre___ | garr, ok | 00:39 |
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| moontiger | theres a system update that breaks icd2 again?? | 00:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | moontiger, no. | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Worked just fine for me and many others. | 00:45 |
| * andre___ goes to sleep | 00:45 | |
| Jaffa | Hmm. SSH seems *really* slow post-update (could be my wifi) | 00:45 |
| * GeneralAntilles is not sure why Ubuntu on the Pandora is such a big deal. | 00:45 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, fine here. | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | PSM being bitchy? | 00:45 |
| gpd | so... in a boot cycle still -- anything other than reflash i can do? | 00:47 |
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| macoute | hello | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | gpd, depends entirely on why the reboot loop is happening. | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | You could usbnet and ssh in with fanoush's bootmenu. | 00:48 |
| macoute | would you by any chance have an osso-default-icons package? | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | But if you don't know what's wrong. . . . | 00:48 |
| macoute | anyone? | 00:48 |
| macoute | osso-icons-default that is | 00:49 |
| gpd | wiki.maemo.org is a blank page.... handy | 00:49 |
| andre___ | gpd: reload it | 00:49 |
| gpd | andre___: weird - but thanks! | 00:50 |
| macoute | my SSU went wrong with that package and im missing my cable for a reflash | 00:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | gpd, apache threads are segfaulting every once and a while. | 00:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Waiting on the new servers this week. | 00:51 |
| macoute | sounds nice :) | 00:51 |
| gpd | ok - remind me where to find the image i should be flashing? | 00:51 |
| macoute | segfaulting apache | 00:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~flashing | 00:51 |
| infobot | i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 00:51 |
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| macoute | why cant i find the package from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/o/ for example? | 00:52 |
| macoute | should it be there? | 00:52 |
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| macoute | my apt-get says something like "package osso-icons-default needs to be reinstalled but its archinve cannot be found" | 00:53 |
| gpd | 2008.23-14 <--- seems rather old -- is that right? then update again without restoring from backup? | 00:54 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: seems better now. Could've been PSM, or congestion (laptop's on wired) | 00:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's usually PSM when mine goes slow. | 00:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | macoute, cat /etc/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list and paste it to http://slexy.org | 00:57 |
| * gpd flashes... :( | 00:57 | |
| * Mousey looks away in horror | 00:59 | |
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| lardman | evening | 01:06 |
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| cuse | lardman: a lie! | 01:07 |
| lardman | very cool that SSU warns that I don't have enough battery life to update and I need to start charging | 01:07 |
| lardman | cuse: it's all relative ;) | 01:07 |
| GAN800 | Hello, lardman. | 01:07 |
| lardman | hey GAN800 | 01:07 |
| GAN800 | lardman, nore blogging. | 01:07 |
| GAN800 | s/no/mo/ | 01:07 |
| infobot | GAN800 meant: lardman, more blogging. | 01:07 |
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| gpd | installing feature upgrade... on a fresh flash.. fingers folded over | 01:08 |
| lardman | from me? | 01:08 |
| * lardman doesn't tend to blog | 01:08 | |
| GAN800 | Tough cookies, council member. :P | 01:08 |
| zap | Am I a slowpoke or today a new SSU was released? | 01:09 |
| gpd | system successfully updated... minor miracle :) | 01:09 |
| GAN800 | http://www.maemo.org/community/council :p | 01:09 |
| GAN800 | zap, yes, it was. | 01:09 |
| zap | k001 | 01:09 |
| gpd | balls -- that was just the first system update... another 33mb to go :( | 01:10 |
| GAN800 | lardman, and, oh, neither do I. But what can you do? ;) | 01:10 |
| lardman | GAN800: ah, council blog you mean | 01:11 |
| GAN800 | Of course. ;) | 01:11 |
| lardman | I've been busy this weekend, and had today off - moving furniture around | 01:12 |
| lardman | I promise I'll get around to it eventually ;) | 01:12 |
| zap | kekeke, says not enuf memory | 01:12 |
| lardman | In the meantime I need to reboot (running in gf's WinXP login atm) | 01:12 |
| Jaffa | Should problem do something in the next couple of days about how the update was received. Some people experienced lots of problems, and couldn't sort it out. Not entirely Nokia's fault (though see http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=228595&postcount=171 for some which are), but - as a community - we need to try and identify the problems so future SSUs can mitigate the risks somehow. | 01:12 |
| Jaffa | Pretend I did s /problem /probably / (but I don't want infobot spamming) | 01:13 |
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| GAN800 | Jaffa, I'm in favor of drafting qwerty12 to do all the groundwork. | 01:13 |
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| Jaffa | Anyway, I've got to be up at 05:20 to get a 06:04 train to be in the office at 07:30 for an 08:30 meeting. Must sleep now. | 01:14 |
| GAN800 | Have fun. | 01:14 |
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| crashanddie | lardman, would be better if it just stfu about charge level and took some juice from USB :P | 01:17 |
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| lardman | re | 01:17 |
| GAN800 | crashanddie, for an ssu update? | 01:18 |
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| crashanddie | wait | 01:19 |
| crashanddie | define SSU? | 01:19 |
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| GAN800 | ~ssu | 01:20 |
| infobot | i guess ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU | 01:20 |
| GAN800 | crashanddie, is that rock nice? :p | 01:21 |
| lardman | worked for me anyway :) | 01:21 |
| lardman | derf: am looking | 01:21 |
| crashanddie | rock? | 01:21 |
| Jaffa | The one you're living under ;-) | 01:22 |
| crashanddie | hey | 01:23 |
| crashanddie | I didn't have either SSU's :( | 01:23 |
| GAN800 | Don't uninstall o-s-v | 01:24 |
| GAN800 | apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked | 01:25 |
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| zap | oh sh.... | 01:28 |
| zap | perpetuum reboot loop :-( | 01:28 |
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| crashanddie | GAN800, crap, that's a lot it's going to install :P Will that push the updates as well? | 01:29 |
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| GAN800 | crashanddie, the first one. | 01:29 |
| GAN800 | Then you'll need to install the second. | 01:29 |
| crashanddie | k | 01:30 |
| GAN800 | But your browser will be a lot faster. | 01:30 |
| crashanddie | nice | 01:30 |
| zap | and you won't be able to boot | 01:30 |
| zap | kekeke | 01:30 |
| zap | does SSU include a kernel/initrd update? | 01:30 |
| GAN800 | zap, any chance you could investigate some debugging? | 01:30 |
| GAN800 | Yes, kernel and initfs were updated. | 01:31 |
| zap | I can create a second partition on my ext SD and clone somehow the ROM there | 01:31 |
| lardman | GAN800: what's happened to the browser to speed it up? | 01:31 |
| zap | strange | 01:31 |
| zap | I had boot menu installed | 01:31 |
| zap | and it's still there | 01:31 |
| GAN800 | lardman, coding happened. :P | 01:31 |
| lardman | fair enough :) | 01:32 |
| GAN800 | We're getting closer to trunk | 01:32 |
| zap | they used patented lcuk technology, now it's 24.9fps | 01:32 |
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| lcuk | pardon? | 01:33 |
| GAN800 | sleep | 01:33 |
| lardman | lcuk: bacccooooonnnn! | 01:33 |
| lcuk | was busy not sleeping :) | 01:33 |
| * lcuk is preparing a beta for everyone | 01:34 | |
| lcuk | :D lardman i had bacon steaks on sunday | 01:34 |
| lcuk | :D:D:D:D:D:D | 01:34 |
| lardman | mmmmm | 01:34 |
| zap | I have the impression that somehow the kernel has been flashed, but initrd not | 01:35 |
| lcuk | how do i know if im updated | 01:35 |
| zap | this could be one of the causes of reboots | 01:35 |
| lcuk | cos i havent been asked today | 01:35 |
| zap | cat /etc/osso-software-version? | 01:35 |
| GAN800 | ooh, zap, I like that thinking. | 01:35 |
| lardman | that annoying link with OS2008 on it comes back to the desktop | 01:36 |
| GAN800 | uhm | 01:36 |
| GAN800 | zap, can you try downgrading the kernel? | 01:36 |
| lcuk | lardman, change it for your favorite homepage | 01:36 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah, I suppose so | 01:37 |
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| GAN800 | or just disable it. | 01:37 |
| zap | uhm | 01:38 |
| zap | I'm in (via USB recovery mode) | 01:38 |
| * lcuk thinks hes missed the updates | 01:38 | |
| GAN800 | lcuk, refresh repos. | 01:38 |
| GAN800 | and make sure o-s-v is installed. | 01:38 |
| lcuk | what version should i be on | 01:38 |
| GAN800 | 30-2 if you haven't updated | 01:39 |
| lcuk | 30-2? | 01:39 |
| lcuk | right | 01:39 |
| Mek | for me application manager didn't show any available updates, but apt-get upgrade did correctly update it... | 01:39 |
| lcuk | i refreshed stuff before | 01:39 |
| lcuk | ill try installin the thingy u said | 01:39 |
| GAN800 | Mek, did you uninstall o-s-v | 01:40 |
| GAN800 | Just, fyi, upgrading without o-s-v is very dangerous. | 01:40 |
| Mek | GAN800: not deliberately... | 01:40 |
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| GAN800 | It's about as easy to accidentally uninstall as it could possibly be | 01:41 |
| GAN800 | Upgrading or removing anything it depends on (lots and lots) removes it. | 01:42 |
| zap | cat /proc/cpuinfo says: "Revision: 24202524" | 01:42 |
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| zap | is this the updated kernel? | 01:42 |
| zap | or this is hardware revision | 01:42 |
| GAN800 | Hardware | 01:42 |
| GAN800 | OMAP2420 | 01:42 |
| zap | cat /mnt/new_root/etc/osso_software_version | 01:42 |
| zap | RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_4.2008.36-5_PR_MR0 | 01:42 |
| lcuk | o-s-v not listed :S | 01:42 |
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| lcuk | ahh well | 01:43 |
| GAN800 | osso-software-version-rx44 | 01:43 |
| lcuk | ill do without goodness | 01:43 |
| Mek | hmm... apt-cache search only finds a osso-software-version-unlocked... | 01:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mek, cat /etc/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list | 01:44 |
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| ion_cu_vaca | hi all | 01:45 |
| zap | GAN800: if I run flash-and-reboot it tells me "These images are available // /boot/zImage-diablo-200835 // /usr/share/osso/images/initfs.jffs2" | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | When flash-and-reboot is run successfully it purges the images on the rootfs. | 01:45 |
| ion_cu_vaca | question, how do I force my tablet to search for software update? I keept it on connected to net for the last 6 hours but no luck. I'm talking about the os update | 01:46 |
| zap | "apt-get upgrade" says something about pre-installed-documentation-rx44 | 01:46 |
| Mek | GeneralAntilles: http://rafb.net/p/1ARuks30.html | 01:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | ion_cu_vaca, open Application manager, tap Show installable applications or Show updates | 01:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | hit the little rotating circle in the bottom right | 01:47 |
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| zap | ion_cu_vaca: mai ioane, click the button with the rotating arrows in App Manager | 01:47 |
| zap | ion_cu_vaca: in the bottom right corner | 01:47 |
| ion_cu_vaca | GeneralAntilles, doesn't show any updates | 01:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mek, Nokia is stupid and evil | 01:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | they don't keep all of the latest packages in the latest tableteer update repo. | 01:47 |
| Mek | fun... | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, basically, here's how it went down. | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | o-s-v was uninstalled at some point | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | so you didn't get the update notification | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | to update, you ran apt-get upgrade and it installed new packages | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | one of these new packages was nokia-repositories | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | which does two things, wipes out maemo Extras (bastards), and increments the upgrade repo (diablo-1/ to diablo-2/) | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | and o-s-v install available in diablo-2/ | 01:49 |
| Mek | my extras is still in sources.list.d/extras.list :P | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mek, well, it disables maemo Extras. | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, you can wait until the next update is pushed and install o-s-v then or re-add diablo-1/ and grab o-s-v from there. | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I'd save the hassle and just wait. | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm glad to hear an apt-get upgrade worked fine, though. | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | As it induced reboot loops with 30-2 | 01:50 |
| Mek | okay, I'll do that | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3566 | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, ion_cu_vaca. ;) | 01:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | You probably removed osso-software-version-rx*4 at some point (it's really easy to remove accidentally) | 01:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | ion_cu_vaca, what do you have an N800 or N810? | 01:51 |
| ion_cu_vaca | n800 | 01:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | ion_cu_vaca, run an apt-get install osso-software-version-rx34 | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | in Xterm as root | 01:52 |
| ion_cu_vaca | ok | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | that should fix you up. | 01:52 |
| ion_cu_vaca | that command will update my os to the latest ver. or just restore the osso-software-version that I removed at some point? | 01:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It will restore it and update the OS. | 01:54 |
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| zap | um... anybody can tell me hows' called the device node for MMC2? | 01:55 |
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| mgedmin | /dev/mmcblk1? | 01:57 |
| zap | aha, /dev/mmcblk0p1, thx | 01:57 |
| ion_cu_vaca | did I make a mistake that I ran that command over ssh? | 01:58 |
| zap | now you have to wait | 01:58 |
| ion_cu_vaca | this was last thing that appeared: Preparing to replace icd2 0.50 (using .../archives/icd2_0.56_armel.deb) ... Stopping Internet Connectivity daemon 2: icd2 | 01:58 |
| ion_cu_vaca | :-) | 01:58 |
| zap | yep, same happened here :) | 01:58 |
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| zap | the network connection got lost at some point | 01:58 |
| ion_cu_vaca | I have to wait a reboot or something? when do I know that the process is done? | 01:59 |
| zap | I think it should reboot at some point | 01:59 |
| zap | but for some reason it didn't happen to me | 01:59 |
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| ion_cu_vaca | how long should I wait? | 02:02 |
| zap | you may try to run top on NIT | 02:02 |
| zap | and see if it does something | 02:02 |
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| zap | ok, I'm going to let flash-and-reboot do its dirty work | 02:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Erg, sorry, ion_cu_vaca. | 02:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shoulda warned you. | 02:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | icd2 (the connectivity daemon) was updated | 02:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | it's restarted as part of the update | 02:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | which drops the wifi, of course. | 02:06 |
| zap | oops | 02:07 |
| zap | Flash and remove them? The device will reboot. (y/N)? y | 02:07 |
| zap | /usr/bin/flash-and-reboot: line 63: fiasco-flasher: not found | 02:07 |
| zap | what;s fiasco-flasher and where do I get it? | 02:08 |
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| zap | false alarm, /usr/sbin was not in PATH | 02:08 |
| lardman | night all | 02:09 |
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| ion_cu_vaca | ok, how do I force the update again? just restarted the tablet and I still have same version | 02:09 |
| zap | via app manager? | 02:09 |
| ion_cu_vaca | still app manager doesn't show the update | 02:10 |
| zap | apt-get install osso-software-version-rx34? | 02:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 02:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | maybe an apt-get -f install | 02:10 |
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| ion_cu_vaca | I get "E: sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returnet an error code (1)" when I run apt-get install osso-software-version-rx34 | 02:11 |
| ion_cu_vaca | ok, I'll try apt-get -f install | 02:11 |
| ion_cu_vaca | same error | 02:12 |
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| zap | /dev/mtd2: No such file or directory | 02:15 |
| zap | can anybody tell me whats the major:minor of /dev/mtd2? | 02:15 |
| dick-richardson | why is deborphan available for os2006, but not diablo? | 02:15 |
| guerby | GeneralAntilles, ion_cu_vaca so I'm not alone | 02:15 |
| guerby | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3749 | 02:15 |
| dick-richardson | zap: root:root | 02:16 |
| zap | dick-richardson: major and minor numbers | 02:16 |
| dick-richardson | 440 permission | 02:16 |
| zap | something like "3, 0" | 02:16 |
| zap | ls -la it | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | guerby, how do you figure? | 02:16 |
| dick-richardson | hang on | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | His problem doesn't sound at all like yours. | 02:16 |
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| guerby | GeneralAntilles, connection was dropped from app manager for me too (I didn't update through ssh) | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | guerby, that's not a bug. | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like I said | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | icd2 was updated | 02:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it has to be restarted during the update. | 02:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Your problem is that it doesn't start properly after the update (abnormal), not that it was restarted during the update (normal). | 02:17 |
| jott | for everyone wanting to test rotation support on the new ssu: http://outpo.st/rotate/36/ (you should know how to install if you want to try :P | 02:17 |
| dick-richardson | zap: not sure what portion of the listing you're after...the entire thing is: crw-rw---- 1 root root 90, 4 Dec31 1969 /dev/mtd2 | 02:17 |
| zap | aha, 90:4 | 02:18 |
| zap | ty | 02:18 |
| dick-richardson | np | 02:18 |
| dick-richardson | what does that refer to, if i may ask? | 02:18 |
| zap | 90 is the internal index of the MTD driver | 02:18 |
| zap | and 4 is device number | 02:18 |
| crashanddie | ion_cu_vaca, I get the same, but with rx44 | 02:19 |
| Veggen | dick: it's a numbering scheme for devices. | 02:19 |
| zap | all in all, these numbers determine to which driver the query will go to | 02:19 |
| Veggen | Actually, the device file name is just a pointer to those numbers. | 02:19 |
| dick-richardson | ahh, ty :) | 02:19 |
| ion_cu_vaca | sooooooo, do I have to flash my beloved n800 to fix it? | 02:19 |
| ion_cu_vaca | :-) | 02:19 |
| zap | damnit | 02:19 |
| zap | flashed new kernel and new initrd | 02:20 |
| dick-richardson | I had an issue with a root owned file in the /home/user/MyDocs/.documents directory | 02:20 |
| crashanddie | "Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/pre-installed-documentation-rx44_5.4_all.deb | 02:20 |
| dick-richardson | removing it helped...not sure if that's an issue someone's fighting | 02:20 |
| zap | now I have no boot menu, but it still reboots at the end of boot process :-( | 02:20 |
| dick-richardson | crashanddie: that's the exact error I had | 02:20 |
| crashanddie | "I had" ? Past tense? Did you fix it? | 02:20 |
| zap | nice, nice. I see everyone got his individual problem here :) | 02:20 |
| dick-richardson | crashanddie: yep | 02:20 |
| crashanddie | dick-richardson, give it to me baby | 02:21 |
| dick-richardson | remove (backup) everything from /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/ | 02:21 |
| dick-richardson | want it nice and empty | 02:21 |
| crashanddie | k | 02:21 |
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| dick-richardson | at the terminal: cd /var/cache/apt/archives | 02:22 |
| VDVsx | hi, exist a easy way to pop up the maemo virtual keyboard in a app ? in python for example | 02:22 |
| dick-richardson | as root: dpkg -i --force-all pre-installed-documentation-rx44_5.4_all.deb | 02:23 |
| * zap thinks the channel remembers an Anonymous Alcoholics Society during every release of SSU | 02:23 | |
| dick-richardson | "--force-all" is not something I'd recommend for daily use | 02:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, dick-richardson, would you vote on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3602 ? | 02:24 |
| guerby | GeneralAntilles, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=228502&postcount=2 | 02:24 |
| guerby | problem similar to mine but I had no automatic connection so I'm out of wifi | 02:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | guerby, sounds like he was in Red Pill. | 02:25 |
| dick-richardson | crashanddie: did it work? | 02:26 |
| guerby | GeneralAntilles, I probably still have it too (unless diablo upgrade clears it) | 02:27 |
| crashanddie | I think I bricked my NIT | 02:27 |
| dick-richardson | GeneralAntilles: put my vote it for you | 02:27 |
| dick-richardson | did it come back to a command prompt? | 02:27 |
| dick-richardson | after that last command? | 02:27 |
| crashanddie | dick-richardson, it whined that I had to -f install, so I did, it installed a bunch of stuff | 02:28 |
| dick-richardson | crashanddie: mine just quietly did what I told it...odd | 02:29 |
| ion_cu_vaca | I give up. I reflashing | 02:29 |
| dick-richardson | crashanddie: probably not bricked...should still be able to flash it | 02:29 |
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| guerby | ion_cu_vaca, I wish I knew how to restart network by command line | 02:29 |
| guerby | this knowledge must exist somewhere... | 02:30 |
| guerby | ifup wlan0 gave nothing | 02:30 |
| ion_cu_vaca | over ssh? :-)) | 02:30 |
| guerby | ion_cu_vaca, with xterm :) | 02:30 |
| dick-richardson | guerby: sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart | 02:30 |
| ion_cu_vaca | so, what's the latest firmware? .23-14? | 02:31 |
| dick-richardson | I should also point out that I disabled all chinook repos before upgrading initially... | 02:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | 36-5 | 02:32 |
| dick-richardson | anyone have deborphan installed? | 02:32 |
| guerby | dick-richardson, thx this started a wifi connection but not on the right router | 02:33 |
| guerby | but I should be able to do something | 02:33 |
| guerby | yep, I'm connected to my n810 through ssh | 02:34 |
| guerby | (and openvpn) | 02:34 |
| guerby | now what should I do? apt-get update? | 02:34 |
| dick-richardson | disable chinook repos first | 02:34 |
| guerby | dick-richardson, ok | 02:34 |
| dick-richardson | then I'd do a dist-upgrade | 02:35 |
| ion_cu_vaca | I hate that I have reflash... but who cares, I just save a bunch of money by .... bailout failure | 02:35 |
| guerby | dick-richardson, 3 .. 2 .. 1 .. | 02:36 |
| dick-richardson | guerby connection reset by peer :P | 02:37 |
| guerby | dick-richardson, no :) | 02:37 |
| guerby | The following packages have unmet dependencies. | 02:37 |
| guerby | osso-software-version-rx44: Depends: adobe-flashplayer (= 2.51-1) but 2.53-1 is installed | 02:37 |
| guerby | Depends: apt (= 0.7.6maemo2) but 0.7.6maemo3 is installed | 02:37 |
| guerby | Depends: browser-neteal (= 0.0.17.1) but 0.0.18-1 is installed | 02:37 |
| guerby | ... | 02:37 |
| guerby | Depends: icd2 (= 0.48) but 0.56 is installed | 02:37 |
| guerby | Depends: icd2-network-wlan-config (= 0.47) but 0.47-diablo1 is installed | 02:37 |
| guerby | .. | 02:38 |
| guerby | Depends: libicd-network-dun (= 0.17) but 1:0.18 is installed | 02:38 |
| guerby | Depends: libicd-network-ipv4 (= 0.14) but 0.15 is installed | 02:38 |
| guerby | Depends: libicd-network-wlan (= 0.47) but 0.47-diablo1 is installed | 02:38 |
| guerby | Depends: libicd2 (= 0.48) but 0.50 is installed | 02:38 |
| guerby | looks like a mess | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | apt-get remove flash-player-r48 | 02:38 |
| guerby | GeneralAntilles, ok let me try | 02:38 |
| dick-richardson | disable antivirus software | 02:38 |
| guerby | E: Couldn't find package flash-player-r48 | 02:39 |
| guerby | ii adobe-flashplayer 2.53-1 Adobe Flashplayer | 02:39 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, any other package I need to install if I want to have the latest update? | 02:39 |
| crashanddie | osso-software-version-rx44? | 02:39 |
| ion_cu_vaca | so, I reflashed. not the application manager shows "os2008 feature upgrade 4.2008.30-2" | 02:39 |
| ion_cu_vaca | doesn't show the last one. do I have to update first to that version and then to the latest? | 02:40 |
| zap | I think yes | 02:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, o-s-v-u supersedes o-s-v | 02:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | ion_cu_vaca, you'll need to run two updates. | 02:40 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, so i should be good then? | 02:40 |
| ion_cu_vaca | ok | 02:40 |
| zap | although that is not like upgrades work on any other linux | 02:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | zap, yeah, Nokia is lame. | 02:42 |
| zap | it's all because of proprietary habbits | 02:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, it's easier to test this upgrade path | 02:42 |
| guerby | Nokia-N810-23-14:~# apt-cache policy osso-software-version-rx44 | 02:42 |
| guerby | osso-software-version-rx44: | 02:42 |
| guerby | Installed: 1:4.2008.23-14 | 02:42 |
| guerby | Candidate: 1:4.2008.36-5 | 02:42 |
| guerby | Version table: | 02:42 |
| guerby | 1:4.2008.36-5 0 | 02:42 |
| guerby | 500 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com ./ Packages | 02:42 |
| guerby | *** 1:4.2008.23-14 0 | 02:42 |
| guerby | 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status | 02:42 |
| guerby | hmmm | 02:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | than upgrading from version 1 to version n | 02:43 |
| zap | its easier to release separate package upgrades | 02:43 |
| crashanddie | guerby, don't flood the channel, please | 02:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | guerby, http://slexy.org | 02:43 |
| zap | than a whole bunch of stuff | 02:43 |
| guerby | crashanddie, GeneralAntilles sorry | 02:43 |
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| guerby | GeneralAntilles, http://slexy.org/view/s20By1FUxZ | 02:45 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, how can I tell if I have the latest update? | 02:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, apt-cache show osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked | 02:46 |
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| * nomis has some very much vaporware mockups for a Tablet Image Manipulation Program (TIMP) :) | 02:47 | |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, nothing | 02:47 |
| ion_cu_vaca | is there a list with changes in the new os version? | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | ion_cu_vaca, not reeally. | 02:47 |
| nomis | http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/n810/timp-mockup-1.png | 02:47 |
| nomis | and http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/n810/timp-mockup-2.png | 02:47 |
| jott | ion_cu_vaca: i made *very* dumb assembly: http://sse2.net/diablo-36.changes.gz | 02:47 |
| jott | RST38h: how is your script going? :p | 02:48 |
| guerby | could someone put a clean sources.list on http://slexy.org ? | 02:48 |
| ion_cu_vaca | thanks jott | 02:49 |
| crashanddie | oh, and btw, #maemo is the number one Slexy channel | 02:49 |
| jott | ion_cu_vaca: it's not filtered by the actual release | 02:49 |
| jott | ion_cu_vaca: so it's always the full changelog. | 02:49 |
| jott | and even that will not help you with NB#-777 | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, where's my commission? :P | 02:50 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, apt-cache show osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked didn't give anything, apt-cache policy says it's not even there | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, didn't you install it, though? | 02:50 |
| crashanddie | I did | 02:50 |
| crashanddie | only... through dpkg -i | 02:50 |
| crashanddie | :-° | 02:51 |
| * GeneralAntilles 's brain hurts. | 02:51 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Too much packaging. | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too much triaging. | 02:51 |
| * crashanddie gives GeneralAntilles a counter-brain-hurting pill | 02:51 | |
| crashanddie | swallow my child, take it like a man | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | No effect! | 02:51 |
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| crashanddie | I always forget this channel is logged | 02:51 |
| crashanddie | Someday, these quotes will come back to haunt me | 02:52 |
| crashanddie | version: 4.2008.30-2 | 02:52 |
| crashanddie | (in about product window) | 02:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, about:plugins | 02:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tell me the Flash version | 02:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | and tell me the modest version | 02:54 |
| crashanddie | flash 9.0 r48 | 02:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good | 02:54 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, where do I get browser version? | 02:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | about: is still outdated | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | apt-cache search microb-engine I guess. | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | show | 02:56 |
| ion_cu_vaca | thanks for help to all. see ya | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Package: microb-engine Version: 1.0.4-60.9 | 02:56 |
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| crashanddie | 1.0.4-60.19 | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | How about Modest? | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Version: 1.0-2008.35-1 | 02:57 |
| crashanddie | 24-1 | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not updated | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Um | 02:57 |
| crashanddie | ah, no | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | apt-get -f install | 02:57 |
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| crashanddie | wait | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unless you were SD booting? | 02:58 |
| crashanddie | it says twice modest | 02:58 |
| crashanddie | once 35-1, once 24-1 | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | erm | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | 24-1 | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | That'd've been the Chinook beta repo? | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | cat /etc/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list | 02:59 |
| crashanddie | right | 02:59 |
| crashanddie | I still have the modest chinook repo | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Remove it. | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or don't | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | probably doesn't matter | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | but it's useless now. | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Run an apt-get -f install to be sure | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I think you're good. | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia doesn't make it easy to try a second time with their stupid repository setup. . . . | 03:00 |
| guerby | hmm E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/. | 03:01 |
| guerby | need to get 46.6 M of archive | 03:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | It should be caching to mmc2. . . . | 03:01 |
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| guerby | I didn't upgrade in a while, probably too much at once | 03:01 |
| guerby | GeneralAntilles, do you know where is the setting? | 03:01 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, not apt-get | 03:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, application manager caches to mmc2. | 03:01 |
| guerby | ah | 03:01 |
| crashanddie | guerby, rm /var/cache/apt/archives/* | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | otherwise you could symlink it. | 03:02 |
| guerby | crashanddie, it's empty | 03:02 |
| guerby | may update a few ones manually in app manager | 03:02 |
| crashanddie | mkdir -p /media/mmc2/apt/archives/partial | 03:02 |
| crashanddie | rm /var/cache/apt/archives | 03:03 |
| crashanddie | ln -s /media/mmc2/apt/archives /var/cache/apt/archives | 03:03 |
| guerby | hmm Operating System is listed at 34 MB | 03:04 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, microb seems to be faster | 03:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, you missed two speed-boosting upgrades. ;) | 03:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | By the way, Jaffa is the genius of the hour: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3566#c14 | 03:06 |
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| crashanddie | now if only I could get microb to not piss me about "unencrypted pages" as soon as a fill out a form | 03:07 |
| crashanddie | I'd be in heaven | 03:07 |
| henrique | hey, how do I can to write to the internal memory (mmc2)? | 03:07 |
| henrique | it seems to be locked, but on storage details the "read-only" checkbox is disabled | 03:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | henrique, sounds corrupted. | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | N810? | 03:11 |
| henrique | yes | 03:11 |
| henrique | GeneralAntilles, how can I fix it then | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably still a messed up internal partition table. | 03:11 |
| crashanddie | henrique, open up a terminal | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/03/do-you-use-built-in-memory-card-on-n810.html | 03:11 |
| k-s | X-Fade: I just tried the maemo-sdk-dev and still lacks libmodest* | 03:12 |
| k-s | X-Fade: idea? | 03:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | k-s, wrong person to ask. ;) | 03:13 |
| zap | thats a obvious fix, I guess why Nokia didn't use it from the beginning | 03:13 |
| henrique | formatting | 03:13 |
| zap | damnit, SSU f*d my device | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | k-s, I'd try -developers | 03:14 |
| k-s | GeneralAntilles: he said today morning that he/someone was doing update about that | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | or maybe bug Soumya | 03:14 |
| * zap hates when it happens again | 03:14 | |
| yacoob | Bah. Why there's no latest image on nokia pages? | 03:14 |
| k-s | GeneralAntilles: that's why I'm asking :-) | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | yacoob, supposedly they should be providing one. | 03:14 |
| henrique | ok, fixed... crashanddie thanks! | 03:14 |
| crashanddie | No problem | 03:14 |
| crashanddie | what did I do? | 03:15 |
| yacoob | latest there is, is 23-14 | 03:15 |
| crashanddie | ~adblock | 03:15 |
| crashanddie | ~flashblock | 03:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | browser-extras.garage.maemo.org | 03:16 |
| crashanddie | cheers | 03:16 |
| yacoob | there was also a gears for microb... | 03:16 |
| yacoob | although pretty proof-of-concept | 03:17 |
| zap | damnit | 03:21 |
| zap | what package contains the initfs? | 03:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | initfs-flasher | 03:22 |
| zap | worked, ty | 03:23 |
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| guerby | ok my n810 is back to normal, thx for your help guyes | 04:03 |
| guerby | and good night :) | 04:03 |
| Sargun_Screen | Ok. | 04:12 |
| Sargun_Screen | No problem | 04:12 |
| Sargun_Screen | (Not like I helped you) | 04:12 |
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| moontiger | so the update didnt exactly make modest any more useful *sigh* | 05:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was a bugfix release. | 05:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | What did you expect? | 05:59 |
| KotCzarny | moontiger, what would make modest more useful for you? | 05:59 |
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| moontiger | i was just hoping is all :) | 06:02 |
| moontiger | i just saw a g-phone in the wild | 06:02 |
| moontiger | it looks way cooler than in shots ive seen online | 06:02 |
| KotCzarny | is it fast? | 06:03 |
| moontiger | yah it looked really snappy | 06:03 |
| moontiger | the touch scrolling is at least as good as the stuff on n810 | 06:03 |
| moontiger | and its smaller and thinner than i thought it would be | 06:03 |
| ricko73 | gsm coverage still sucks here | 06:03 |
| moontiger | yah it seemed to be loading pages real fast | 06:04 |
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| moontiger | and when u pop out the keyboard to type messages the screen rotates landscape ... unlike the iphone | 06:04 |
| moontiger | i was impressed | 06:04 |
| KotCzarny | iphone doesn't have a kb | 06:04 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:04 |
| moontiger | heh yah i know ... but when they cant type msgs in landscape | 06:06 |
| moontiger | anyways i was impressed like i say ... and i didnt think i would be | 06:07 |
| KotCzarny | their screen res sucks | 06:07 |
| KotCzarny | that's why no landscape probably | 06:07 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:07 |
| moontiger | yah | 06:07 |
| moontiger | <--- doesnt like iphones | 06:07 |
| KotCzarny | platform as many others | 06:07 |
| KotCzarny | shiny, vendor lockin | 06:08 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:08 |
| moontiger | yeah i know and that will stop me buying one .... but it was nicer than i thought | 06:10 |
| gregorovius | anybody knows when canola beta 10 might be out? | 06:10 |
| KotCzarny | greg: i guess i saw people installing it? | 06:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | gregorovius, soon. | 06:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're working on it. | 06:11 |
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| gregorovius | KotCzarny: it's in extras-devel, but I don't think it's installable yet | 06:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | gregorovius, that was a mistake. | 06:12 |
| gregorovius | yeah, I read that | 06:12 |
| gregorovius | I was looking for a more precise answer, like 'this week'? =) | 06:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | gregorovius, it's in troubleshooting stage. | 06:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | As soon as it's ready. | 06:19 |
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| prak | does anyone know of a good task management application that would sync with todoist.com? | 07:21 |
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| prak | does anyone know of a good task management application that would sync with todoist.com? | 07:37 |
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| prak | what would be a good synchronization software that would sync gpe-todo with todoist.com and other links? | 08:00 |
| KotCzarny | ... | 08:00 |
| KotCzarny | ask on mailing list | 08:00 |
| KotCzarny | apparently you don't get your answer on irc | 08:01 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:01 |
| prak | i already asked on the mailing lists | 08:01 |
| prak | just thought i may get a faster question on irc | 08:02 |
| KotCzarny | but i saw you asking it for a few last days | 08:02 |
| KotCzarny | and most of the people there are regulars | 08:02 |
| KotCzarny | and not that we are ignoring your question | 08:02 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:02 |
| KotCzarny | unless you are someone else | 08:03 |
| prak | i just thought that my message was ignored or didn't go through | 08:03 |
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| KotCzarny | and my visual memory is playing tricks | 08:03 |
| prak | i apologize for flooding the questions repeatedly | 08:05 |
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| KotCzarny | :) | 08:06 |
| prak | i guess i would have to wait from a reply on the mailing list then | 08:06 |
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| KotCzarny | hi qwerty | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | morning irc dose? | 08:11 |
| qwerty12 | hi KotCzarny | 08:11 |
| qwerty12 | No, need to finish some work :P | 08:12 |
| KotCzarny | on irc? | 08:12 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:12 |
| qwerty12 | Well... I guess not, but my computer's on so I may as well join :P | 08:12 |
| KotCzarny | who you wanna cheat :P | 08:13 |
| qwerty12 | If anyone is good at Business studies here... :P | 08:14 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:15 |
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| moontiger | so im curious about the ssu | 08:51 |
| moontiger | it was a 12.8mb download and reqd 33mb of memory | 08:51 |
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| moontiger | and there is nothing significant i can see | 08:52 |
| moontiger | wtf did they do? | 08:52 |
| Proteous | ssu? | 08:52 |
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| KotCzarny | installed a backhole | 08:52 |
| Proteous | super spastic underwear? | 08:52 |
| * moontiger laughs | 08:52 | |
| Proteous | backdoor? | 08:52 |
| KotCzarny | backintosh | 08:52 |
| Proteous | backwash | 08:52 |
| moontiger | i mean dsl is only just smaller than 33mb for a whole distro | 08:52 |
| KotCzarny | backspace | 08:52 |
| Proteous | backupatyou | 08:53 |
| KotCzarny | backyouhellspawn | 08:53 |
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| Proteous | backula | 08:53 |
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| KotCzarny | backbit | 08:53 |
| Proteous | backrabbit | 08:53 |
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| qwerty12 | I'd rather not | 08:53 |
| KotCzarny | backboot | 08:54 |
| Proteous | backdoorcatiswatchingyoutype | 08:54 |
| KotCzarny | backturbation | 08:54 |
| Proteous | backwardshatisforn00bs | 08:54 |
| KotCzarny | backshish | 08:55 |
| Proteous | backscratch | 08:55 |
| KotCzarny | backslap | 08:55 |
| moontiger | oh well ... im off to bed then ... to ponder the mystery of the huge update for nothing | 08:55 |
| Proteous | backindex | 08:55 |
| KotCzarny | backbed | 08:55 |
| Proteous | backtag | 08:55 |
| KotCzarny | backdate | 08:55 |
| Proteous | backitUP | 08:55 |
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| KotCzarny | backleup | 08:55 |
| Proteous | backslash | 08:55 |
| KotCzarny | backend | 08:55 |
| Proteous | backdoorgnome | 08:56 |
| KotCzarny | backadonna | 08:56 |
| Proteous | backofthefridge | 08:56 |
| KotCzarny | backstreetboys | 08:56 |
| Proteous | backwhereit'sdark | 08:56 |
| KotCzarny | backopotammus | 08:56 |
| Proteous | backbackbackbackbackbackbackmushroommushroom | 08:57 |
| qwerty12 | backshot | 08:57 |
| KotCzarny | backetamine | 08:57 |
| Proteous | backaine | 08:57 |
| KotCzarny | backihuana | 08:58 |
| Proteous | backitch | 08:58 |
| KotCzarny | backsucker | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | bored people :P | 08:58 |
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| KotCzarny | backedpeople | 08:58 |
| KotCzarny | :P | 08:59 |
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| KotCzarny | backstorm | 08:59 |
| * qwerty12 is thankful for portable shit. I've 'obtained' 3 different versions of office and they all give me bs during install | 08:59 | |
| KotCzarny | backorifice :P | 09:00 |
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| KotCzarny | or was it backoffice | 09:00 |
| Proteous | both | 09:00 |
| KotCzarny | i know | 09:00 |
| qwerty12 | the logo for backorifice was some wierd stuff | 09:00 |
| Proteous | backCDC | 09:00 |
| KotCzarny | just asking what was he installing | 09:00 |
| KotCzarny | cdc? | 09:01 |
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| Proteous | cult of the dead cow | 09:01 |
| KotCzarny | ahm | 09:01 |
| KotCzarny | qwerty: portable shit brings 2g1c imagery | 09:02 |
| qwerty12 | KotCzarny, *sigh* | 09:02 |
| KotCzarny | back.avi | 09:02 |
| KotCzarny | qwerty: so please, don't swear | 09:02 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:02 |
| qwerty12 | Sorry, it's an habit that has been etched forever on my brain :/. But I prefer swearing to watching 2g1c | 09:03 |
| KotCzarny | i have weeded out habitual swearing around my college end | 09:04 |
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| qwerty12 | but you don't come from London ;) | 09:04 |
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| Proteous | swearing is like caffine, it's much more effective/enjoyable if you don't use it all the time | 09:05 |
| KotCzarny | there are worse places than london | 09:05 |
| qwerty12 | Indeed, there is. My point is that I'm hearing it all the time anyway | 09:05 |
| Proteous | then when you need it, BAM! feels great | 09:05 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:05 |
| KotCzarny | qwerty: but consider you are the part of the unending swearing | 09:06 |
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| KotCzarny | just install some linguistic firewall | 09:06 |
| Proteous | heh | 09:06 |
| qwerty12 | Meh, I do the opposite. I have some greasemonkey script that attempts to "unhide" swearing | 09:07 |
| KotCzarny | turning everything to shit? | 09:07 |
| KotCzarny | now, that's sick | 09:07 |
| qwerty12 | Worked well when it thought ProStreet was PornStreet... | 09:07 |
| KotCzarny | ShitStreet | 09:08 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 09:08 |
| qwerty12 | Nah, it's more intelligent than that | 09:08 |
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| KotCzarny | but will it blend? | 09:08 |
| * qwerty12 now knows why I keep my ITT PM Box intentionally full | 09:09 | |
| rmrfchik | re | 09:12 |
| rmrfchik | I see updates 36-2... | 09:12 |
| rmrfchik | is there any changelog? | 09:13 |
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| Proteous | pack of 2 4gb flash drives for $20 including shipping on http://www.woot.com/ | 09:23 |
| Proteous | well, for those in the USA | 09:24 |
| KotCzarny | sd or cf? | 09:24 |
| Proteous | USB flash drives | 09:24 |
| qwerty12 | ~lart them for not shipping to UK | 09:24 |
| * infobot chops them in half with a free AOL CD for not shipping to UK | 09:24 | |
| KotCzarny | bah. | 09:24 |
| KotCzarny | although may be useful for misc tests | 09:24 |
| pusling | my harddrive is running full. how to clean up ? | 09:25 |
| Proteous | sandisk finaly went offical with the 16gb microSDHC | 09:25 |
| Proteous | http://www.sandisk.com/Corporate/PressRoom/PressReleases/PressRelease.aspx?ID=4398 | 09:25 |
| pusling | apt-get clean didn't free anything. | 09:25 |
| qwerty12 | apt-get remove --purge pr0n | 09:25 |
| Proteous | try apt-get takeOutTrash | 09:25 |
| rmrfchik | hey, guys, I dig internets and can't find the changelog for new SSU | 09:25 |
| KotCzarny | pusling: clone to sd | 09:25 |
| Proteous | apt-get; rm -rf / | 09:25 |
| pusling | and how am I supposed to uninstall software with the application manager when there is a few dependencies involved ? | 09:26 |
| Proteous | ug, I hate that | 09:27 |
| pusling | I can of course go apt-get, but isn't "application manager" the tool users should use ? | 09:27 |
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| KotCzarny | pusling, automatic deps removing could end up in removing every single package | 09:29 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:29 |
| MakeGho | only if it's badly implemented | 09:29 |
| pusling | KotCzarny: I installed a game which had three packages with circular dependencies in between them, so I couldn't even start "from the top" | 09:30 |
| KotCzarny | then it's a bug | 09:30 |
| KotCzarny | which should be filled | 09:31 |
| pusling | and upgrades does also seem to be one package at a time instead of pasing all packages at the same time, and when there is strict dependencies involved, that will also fail | 09:31 |
| KotCzarny | is it me or it would be nice if someone invented 4x microsd to 1x sd adapter? | 09:32 |
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| KotCzarny | shouldn't be hard because sds allow for daisy chaining | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | i think | 09:32 |
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| KotCzarny | imagine 128gb worth of microsds in n800 | 09:33 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 09:33 |
| |thunder | you guys see the new user agent on n800 ? | 09:33 |
| |thunder | Firefox/3.0a1 Tablet browser 0.3.7 RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_4.2008.36-5 | 09:33 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:34 |
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| qwerty12 | |thunder, It changes with each ssu update | 09:34 |
| Jaffa | |thunder: and? | 09:34 |
| pusling | wtf is "pre-installed-documentation-rx44" ? The OS2008 feature upgrade depends on it. | 09:34 |
| qwerty12 | Morning, Jaffa | 09:34 |
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| |thunder | it changed from mozilla to firefox | 09:34 |
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| Jaffa | pusling: User manual PDFs | 09:35 |
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| KotCzarny | anyway, nite nite people | 09:36 |
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| pusling | Jaffa: hmm.. I never read those yet and don't think I need them, but unremovable :/ | 09:36 |
| Jaffa | Just delete the PDFs themselves | 09:36 |
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| pusling | is /home/user/MyDocs/.documents somewhere on the flash or on the internal memory ? | 09:41 |
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| Jaffa | pusling: everything's internal by default | 09:44 |
| pusling | Jaffa: n810 has internal memory and internal flash and external memory (mini sd) | 09:45 |
| Jaffa | Yes, I know. | 09:46 |
| Jaffa | Everything's on the internal "memory" by default | 09:46 |
| Jaffa | /media/mmc2 is the internal flash, and - by default - stores the factory shipped maps. /media/mmc1 is the external MiniSD slot; / is the internal "memory" and is the fs root. | 09:47 |
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| pusling | is there a way to tell maemo mapper where to store cached maps ? | 10:04 |
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| pusling | hah. symlinks. | 10:06 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, look in repo settings or something | 10:06 |
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| rmrfchik | pusling: there is a setting for each map type | 10:07 |
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| pusling | ah. repo settings. | 10:07 |
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| Proteous | hahaha, someone bought a VPN device on ebay, after plugging it in he found that it autoconnected to the previous owners confidential servers | 10:10 |
| Fatal | \o/ | 10:10 |
| pusling | is maemo mapper reading the entire mapfile into memory ? | 10:10 |
| rmrfchik | sure no. | 10:11 |
| Fatal | pusling: I would like to ask you to think about it | 10:12 |
| pusling | I know it would be silly, but maemo mapper is just so much slower with a big map file. | 10:13 |
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| RST38h | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/29/AR2008092902762.html?nav=rss_email/components | 10:22 |
| RST38h | (the author has just had amental breakdown) | 10:23 |
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| Stskeeps | stock market losses? :P | 10:23 |
| RST38h | everything together, although I guess that for this particular guy it was his personal stock losses =) | 10:24 |
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| aquatix | Proteous: :) | 10:46 |
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| slonopotamus | hello | 11:01 |
| slonopotamus | somebody interrupted builder1 now | 11:01 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: Let me check.. | 11:02 |
| slonopotamus | X-Fade, funny log | 11:02 |
| slonopotamus | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/db_4.6.21-8maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt | 11:02 |
| slonopotamus | looks like it didn't hang | 11:02 |
| slonopotamus | it just took almost a day to run logging tests | 11:02 |
| slonopotamus | man, that builder is 50 times slower then my n800 | 11:03 |
| qwerty12 | Your N800 isn't emulating an ARM processor. | 11:03 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: OOM? perhaps? | 11:03 |
| slonopotamus | qwerty, well, that emulator doesn't run an 400mhz, uh? | 11:03 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: I think Ed's advice is the better solution to this problem? | 11:04 |
| qwerty12 | Maybe not, but qemu's arm emulation sucks balls. | 11:04 |
| slonopotamus | i will disable tests. the good point is that my tcl build actually works | 11:04 |
| slonopotamus | it's only extremely slow (on some tasks?) under qemu | 11:04 |
| slonopotamus | other tests have reasonable times | 11:05 |
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| slonopotamus | maybe you should use arm devices for arm builders... :) | 11:06 |
| slonopotamus | should i file a bugreport somewhere (qemu)? | 11:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, that's not a terrible idea to look into. | 11:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is there $1000 lying around anywhere to pick up a cluster of Beagles? :P | 11:08 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: We have actually discussed that at the summit ;) | 11:08 |
| slonopotamus | X-Fade, arm-based builders? | 11:08 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: yes | 11:08 |
| slonopotamus | X-Fade, and? | 11:08 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: Well, just that ;) | 11:08 |
| slonopotamus | X-Fade, oh :) i see. just discussed. | 11:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Alternatively, get Mojo to give up some hours. | 11:09 |
| slonopotamus | Mojo - ? | 11:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://mojo.handhelds.org/ | 11:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, where's the builder source? | 11:10 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: extras-cauldron on garage. | 11:10 |
| slonopotamus | at least now i have a weapon against bad builders. | 11:11 |
| slonopotamus | muahaha | 11:11 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: We can always revoke your key ;) | 11:11 |
| slonopotamus | :( | 11:11 |
| qwerty12 | X-Fade = evil | 11:12 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: Nah, but we need to find a fix. | 11:12 |
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| slonopotamus | good bug - always reproducible bug | 11:12 |
| Kegetys | is there some way to disable the "usb device not supported"/"no file system available" messages when plugging in usb devices? | 11:12 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: Well, it is probably just slow. (somehow) | 11:13 |
| slonopotamus | i grant you my package so you can test whether that bug is fixed | 11:13 |
| slonopotamus | it is slow. | 11:13 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: Did you try to build it inside scratchbox? | 11:13 |
| slonopotamus | 15 hours for logging tests! | 11:13 |
| slonopotamus | it takes 15 minutes on n800 | 11:13 |
| slonopotamus | i don't have scratchbox, sorry | 11:13 |
| qwerty12 | Kegetys, http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/06/02/feel-the-power-of-usb-with-nokia-tablet/ - if you can recompile a kernel, try that. if not, I'll modify ke-recv for you | 11:14 |
| slonopotamus | maybe we could ask someone to try | 11:14 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: I don't have time to test it in a scratchbox now, very busy today. But I should be able to tomorrow. | 11:15 |
| X-Fade | If somebody wants to help test. Please? :) | 11:15 |
| slonopotamus | X-Fade, ok. as far as i understand, sources will be there until someone reuploads the package. | 11:15 |
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| slonopotamus | lardman definitely doesn't want to test | 11:16 |
| Kegetys | qwerty12: well, the devices seem to work fine so there shouldn't be a problem there, just the pop-ups are a bit annoying | 11:16 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: Yes. All we keep original sources for all 'failed' builds. | 11:16 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: Yes, but lardman is a very lazy guy :D | 11:16 |
| qwerty12 | I'd test but I need to reinstall grub | 11:17 |
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| * slonopotamus is very lucky at (in? sorry, bad english) hitting ugly bugs | 11:18 | |
| slonopotamus | and i hate that :) | 11:18 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: You help in making it better. | 11:18 |
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| RST38h | Moo, X-Fade, qwerty | 11:19 |
| qwerty12 | Hey RST38h | 11:20 |
| X-Fade | Hi RST38h | 11:20 |
| slonopotamus | "RST38h"... how do you read that? | 11:20 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, While you are here, have you ever had success compiling your emutools under *nix? | 11:20 |
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| * qwerty12 will take that as a no :/ | 11:23 | |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Yep | 11:25 |
| RST38h | qwerty: They compiled just fine for me. Is there any specific problem? | 11:25 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus: as an abbreviation | 11:25 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, Well, I saw no Makefile (yes, you all know I'm a n00b) so I merged it with emulib and used it's makefile to compile it. But I can't get all of it to compile :/ | 11:26 |
| RST38h | Weird...No makefile? Lemme check | 11:27 |
| RST38h | Yep. No makefile. It can only mean one thing: compile with gcc -o toolname -I. -I../EMULib toolname.c =) | 11:29 |
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| qwerty12 | Ok, thanks, will try that :) | 11:29 |
| RST38h | And if there is a problem - let me know what the exact problem is | 11:29 |
| RST38h | [and I guess it is also a hint for me to release 'em with the correct makefile) | 11:29 |
| qwerty12 | :P | 11:30 |
| macoute | and once again, could you dig osso-default-icons package from your NIT? | 11:32 |
| macoute | or do you have it, or should i have it? my upgrade didnt finish because of that package | 11:32 |
| slonopotamus | wanna broken package? just ask me :) some weird bug with mysql: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/mysql-dfsg-5.0_5.0.51a-15maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt | 11:32 |
| slonopotamus | :( | 11:33 |
| slonopotamus | your builders do not like me | 11:33 |
| RST38h | it is the same for everyone | 11:34 |
| RST38h | In your particular case, it looks like the parser generator has failed | 11:34 |
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| lardman | derf: ping | 11:35 |
| RST38h | lARDman | 11:35 |
| macoute | is there even a place like packages.debian.org for maemo? i havent found it at least... | 11:35 |
| lardman | hi RST38h | 11:35 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: That looks like a missing build dependency. | 11:35 |
| RST38h | macoute: fms.komkon.org/Maemo/ | 11:35 |
| macoute | RST38h: thanks | 11:35 |
| slonopotamus | huh :) | 11:35 |
| slonopotamus | that _looks_ like missing dependency | 11:35 |
| macoute | RST38h: and there should be every package for maemo? | 11:36 |
| slonopotamus | however that isn't | 11:36 |
| * lcuk throws a pig @ lardman | 11:36 | |
| lardman | and a BBQ? | 11:36 |
| macoute | RST38h: there is no osso-icons-default there :S | 11:36 |
| macoute | could someone check if you have the package? | 11:37 |
| qwerty12 | macoute, it's in passworded repo | 11:37 |
| qwerty12 | how did you manage to remove it? | 11:37 |
| lcuk | heh | 11:37 |
| macoute | it was called osso-icons-default or osso-default-icons. id go with the first one | 11:37 |
| macoute | qwerty12: i didnt. i was upgrading | 11:37 |
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| qwerty12 | Everyone has the package. | 11:40 |
| qwerty12 | Who's going to be able to dpkg-repack it though? | 11:40 |
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| macoute | qwerty12: its not available as a .deb? | 11:40 |
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| qwerty12 | It comes by default on each tablet | 11:41 |
| macoute | if you have downloaded it (or reinstall it) it should turn out to /var/cache/apt/archives, doesnt it+ | 11:41 |
| qwerty12 | You must have removed it or another repo is messing up your tablet | 11:41 |
| macoute | theres no other repos :) | 11:41 |
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| RST38h | US boffins say that the tendency of laptops to run hotter and hotter as performance increases is out of control - to the point where notebooks will be as hot as the surface of the sun by 2030 on current trends. | 12:50 |
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| *** irc.freenode.net changes topic to "Sprint5 review meeting in #maemo-meeting 9/30 @ 19:00 UTC | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/" | 13:24 | |
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| _julian_ | hi | 13:24 |
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| * aquatix wonders why his tablet didn't update everything | 13:51 | |
| aquatix | and why the updates have disappeared from the appmanager since | 13:52 |
| aquatix | and apt-get dist-upgrade has been broken for a while | 13:52 |
| aquatix | meh :) | 13:52 |
| RST38h | it disabled your extras entry | 13:54 |
| RST38h | right? | 13:54 |
| macoute | nah, it really broke something with me as well | 13:54 |
| macoute | my appmanager didnt see the updates at all | 13:54 |
| macoute | i used dist-upgrade | 13:54 |
| RST38h | well, your fault | 13:56 |
| aquatix | RST38h: i re-enabled that already | 13:57 |
| aquatix | but dist-upgrade fails here | 13:57 |
| aquatix | says: osso-af-startup: Depends: osso-af-utils (>= 1.16-1) but it is not going to be installed | 13:57 |
| aquatix | and depends: osso-core-config | 13:58 |
| aquatix | weird stuff | 13:58 |
| RST38h | don't use dist-upgrade | 13:58 |
| aquatix | i have osso-af-utils 1.17 | 13:58 |
| RST38h | us app manager to upgrade your system. | 13:58 |
| aquatix | myeah | 13:58 |
| RST38h | use | 13:58 |
| aquatix | i did | 13:58 |
| aquatix | with Update all | 13:58 |
| aquatix | but it didn't update all | 13:58 |
| aquatix | and now doesn't see anything anymore | 13:58 |
| RST38h | umgh | 13:58 |
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| RST38h | how about apt-get upgrade ? | 13:59 |
| Veggen | but the system *is* a bit fucked when the potential for fuckup is so large with a dist-upgrade. | 13:59 |
| RST38h | or, rather, apt-get update and then apt-get upgrade | 13:59 |
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| RST38h | Veggen: it is a non-standard distribution, so using these standard desktop tools is a bad idea | 14:00 |
| RST38h | Update the way Nokia tells youto | 14:00 |
| Veggen | RST38h: Well, yeah, but it's bad design from Nokias part not to be more careful :) | 14:00 |
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| Veggen | granted, the every-app-its-own-repository has not helped. At all. | 14:00 |
| RST38h | using all the standard linux framework has never been their goal | 14:01 |
| Veggen | No, but it's still bad design :) | 14:02 |
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| RST38h | they were simply adopting whatever linux they have got to an embedded devic | 14:02 |
| Veggen | making the device upgrading more foolproof *should* be a goal. | 14:02 |
| RST38h | well, that is what you get when designign business suit for a pidgeon and sewing it out of the stuff you picked form a dumpster | 14:02 |
| RST38h | Their initial upgrade method was "flash the whole firmware" | 14:03 |
| aquatix | apt-get upgrade doesn't have anything to install | 14:03 |
| Veggen | I know. | 14:03 |
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| Veggen | I've been there too :) | 14:03 |
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| RST38h | aquatix: I have got an idea | 14:03 |
| RST38h | aquatix: Your repo list is somehow fucked. Is it possible? | 14:03 |
| Veggen | So it's better now, but still not good enough for my complete satisfaction. | 14:03 |
| aquatix | of course | 14:03 |
| * aquatix looks at /etc/apt/sources.list | 14:04 | |
| RST38h | aquatix: Why not edit it ? | 14:04 |
| aquatix | erm | 14:04 |
| aquatix | hm | 14:04 |
| aquatix | no /etc/apt/sources.list? | 14:04 |
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| Mek | most repos are in files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ | 14:05 |
| aquatix | ah | 14:06 |
| aquatix | i wonder why the updates repository is set to diablo-2 :) | 14:07 |
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| Mek | because you update some stufF? | 14:07 |
| * lcuk_work should never have removed vnc. dinnertimes are so boring | 14:07 | |
| RST38h | hehehehe | 14:07 |
| aquatix | yeah, i updated some stuff, and apparently it changed from diablo-1 to -2 | 14:08 |
| aquatix | with -1 i see my updates again | 14:08 |
| RST38h | ~curse local testing and build system | 14:08 |
| RST38h | aquatix: One more problem resolved! | 14:09 |
| * aquatix does an apt-get upgrade | 14:09 | |
| aquatix | RST38h: yeah, thanks :) | 14:09 |
| aquatix | i didn't think it'd have changed the updates repository :/ | 14:09 |
| lcuk_work | aquatix, thank you for getting freenode back up and running :P | 14:09 |
| aquatix | lcuk_work: you're welcome ;) | 14:09 |
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| aquatix | yay @ work wifi with 80KB/s | 14:11 |
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| aquatix | there, updated :) | 14:20 |
| aquatix | thanks RST38h! | 14:20 |
| * aquatix reboots | 14:21 | |
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| lcuk_work | aquatix: stop breaking the internet | 14:25 |
| aquatix | sorry | 14:26 |
| aquatix | with great power... | 14:26 |
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| lcuk_work | come long disconnect times | 14:26 |
| lcuk_work | should i put my half eaten chicken and bacon club sandwich on ebay? or more importantly, what reserve should i put on it | 14:27 |
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| aquatix | if you're able to teleport it here in the next few minutes, i'm willing to bid $1 | 14:28 |
| aquatix | that's about 0.40 EUR anyway | 14:28 |
| lcuk_work | no, its now worth €0.39 now | 14:28 |
| gomiam | aquatix: more like 0.6 methinks | 14:28 |
| lcuk_work | oh, hang on €0.38 | 14:28 |
| aquatix | gomiam: sorry, running joke ;) | 14:28 |
| lcuk_work | crap! its like pokemon ;) | 14:28 |
| gomiam | oh, sorry | 14:29 |
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| aquatix | gomiam: i tend to wildly undervalue the dollar nowadays | 14:29 |
| gomiam | (actually, Yahoo says it's at 0,6973 right now) | 14:29 |
| aquatix | and sometimes i'm even spot-on ;) | 14:29 |
| aquatix | yeah, it's improved a bit | 14:29 |
| gomiam | aquatix: wildly undervalue the dollar? Is that actually possible? | 14:29 |
| gomiam | XD | 14:29 |
| aquatix | 1 U.S. dollar = 0.696136443 Euros according to google | 14:30 |
| aquatix | heheheh | 14:30 |
| gomiam | they're printing them out like they are going out of season | 14:30 |
| aquatix | well, i tend to say things like, `hm, that gadget is $300 - that's like 40 EUR!' | 14:30 |
| gomiam | (see governmental rescue packages) | 14:30 |
| aquatix | heh, yeah | 14:30 |
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| Veggen | problem is, there's still a good many people in US that believes that fixing the economy is not necessary. | 14:31 |
| * aquatix reboots for the heck of it and puts his n810 on the charger | 14:31 | |
| * aquatix thinks fixing the US economy is not possible | 14:32 | |
| Veggen | US is not immune to financial troubles, and things could get much worse for the country later. | 14:32 |
| aquatix | it'll be bankrupt soonish | 14:32 |
| * gomiam agrees with aquatix (throwing good money after bad and all that) | 14:32 | |
| Veggen | aquatix: nah, but they'll have to actually start producing goods and selling stuff again. | 14:32 |
| aquatix | gomiam: not to mention the ginormous amount of loans the country has | 14:32 |
| aquatix | Veggen: fair enough | 14:32 |
| lcuk_work | of course it wont be bankrupt, they will simply be renationalised ;) | 14:32 |
| aquatix | :) | 14:33 |
| X-Fade | Problem is, if US goes, we all go. | 14:33 |
| aquatix | X-Fade: not sure abuot that | 14:33 |
| RST38h | Then let us go in style! | 14:33 |
| aquatix | it'll hurt for sure | 14:33 |
| gomiam | who can be so stupid to lend money to someone with no income, no job, not anything? | 14:33 |
| lcuk_work | power and money is in the east | 14:33 |
| lcuk_work | 100% agree about hurting | 14:33 |
| aquatix | but i think asia and europe will do quite well | 14:33 |
| RST38h | Now, where is that doomsday weapon I have seen on Ebay? | 14:33 |
| aquatix | RST38h: my backyard, sorry | 14:33 |
| X-Fade | aquatix: Our retirement funds have invested a lot in the us. If that goed, bye bye retirement etc etc. | 14:33 |
| gomiam | aquatix: not here in Spain we won't, we have our own self-cooked housing bubble | 14:33 |
| aquatix | X-Fade: yeah :/ | 14:34 |
| RST38h | aquatix: But surely, you will let me use it just once? =) | 14:34 |
| X-Fade | s/goed/goes/ | 14:34 |
| aquatix | RST38h: sure, just don't point at me ;) | 14:34 |
| lcuk_work | local economies will resurface and life will continue | 14:34 |
| RST38h | Just about every country in the world has a housing bubble right now. They have all got easy money from the us to make loans | 14:34 |
| lcuk_work | communities :) | 14:34 |
| aquatix | we have damn expensive houses here too | 14:35 |
| RST38h | aquatix: I secretly hope it is omnidirectional =) | 14:35 |
| gomiam | lcuk_work: yeah, they will, but it seems the term "free market" should be changed to "win market": my wins are mine, my loses are socialized. | 14:35 |
| aquatix | gomiam: spain is bad indeed; too many new houses while noone is interested | 14:35 |
| aquatix | RST38h: that's the point ;) | 14:35 |
| lcuk_work | gomiam: yer, it shouldnt be the case though, and i tihnk thats why use has vetoed (for now) its bailout | 14:35 |
| aquatix | RST38h: just wait till i've finished my hypership | 14:35 |
| RST38h | aquatix: Niue? =) | 14:35 |
| aquatix | ghehe | 14:36 |
| * aquatix wishes | 14:36 | |
| gomiam | aquatix: the worst is that it was obvious even four years ago (but everybody laughed at me when I said it) | 14:36 |
| aquatix | RST38h: nah, i'm .nl | 14:36 |
| RST38h | aquatix: Then just bomb the dams - and suddenly there is no expensive housing | 14:36 |
| lcuk_work | gomiam: people have been speculating about the end of the world forever | 14:36 |
| gomiam | RST38h: just like it happened in No-Orleans ;-) | 14:37 |
| aquatix | RST38h: including mine | 14:37 |
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| aquatix | RST38h: not a good idea ;) | 14:37 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Hey, you do not need the global end of the world, a local version will do you in just as good | 14:37 |
| RST38h | gomiam: New Orleans had no dams | 14:37 |
| lcuk_work | uh huh agreed | 14:37 |
| gomiam | lcuk_work: yes they have, but this has been ridiculously high for years. And now everybody whines. | 14:37 |
| lcuk_work | levies | 14:37 |
| RST38h | gomiam: I have been there a few years before it got offed | 14:37 |
| gomiam | RST38h: dams, levees, whatever keeps the water away D | 14:37 |
| gomiam | XD | 14:37 |
| lcuk_work | gomain, its the same everywhere - until it slaps you in the face its someone elses problem | 14:37 |
| RST38h | gomiam: the stuff it had would not hold a medium-sized puddle | 14:37 |
| lcuk_work | much like most US bank vaults | 14:38 |
| aquatix | hm, not that i really care, but the telepathy msn plugin doesn't work anymore now | 14:38 |
| gomiam | RST38h: ok, I'm not talking about the sturdity of the structures, but the results of their collapse ;-) | 14:38 |
| aquatix | network error | 14:38 |
| RST38h | aquatix: It is the first signed of the oncoming crisis | 14:38 |
| lcuk_work | what do you use telepathy for | 14:38 |
| aquatix | RST38h: :) | 14:38 |
| RST38h | aquatix: MSN will get bought by Huawei or something | 14:38 |
| * RST38h has got a Huawei office next door | 14:39 | |
| aquatix | lcuk_work: plugin for the IM stuff on my tablet | 14:39 |
| aquatix | so i can do other networks aside from xmpp | 14:39 |
| RST38h | It is so amusing to board a corporate bus with 100 chinese... | 14:39 |
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| lcuk_work | fair enough | 14:39 |
| RST38h | In the middle of Moscow. | 14:39 |
| gomiam | aquatix: I'm more a Pidgin fan. | 14:39 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, microsoft will get bought by Huawei? | 14:39 |
| gomiam | No need for gateways :-) | 14:39 |
| RST38h | johnx: Do you prefer Huawei or Steve Jobs? =) | 14:39 |
| aquatix | gomiam: i like the way it integrates | 14:39 |
| aquatix | gomiam: no, no gateways | 14:40 |
| aquatix | it uses native protocols | 14:40 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, ms has piles of liquid capital, IIRC | 14:40 |
| aquatix | even uses pidgin's libpurple | 14:40 |
| gomiam | oh. Is telepathy something like libpurple? | 14:40 |
| aquatix | gomiam: through telepathy haze | 14:40 |
| gomiam | oh! | 14:40 |
| gomiam | I didn't know that | 14:40 |
| gomiam | XD | 14:40 |
| aquatix | telepathy is an abstraction layer | 14:40 |
| lcuk_work | johnx_: ms's liquid capital are bottles of scotch in ballmers drawer | 14:40 |
| RST38h | johnx: who cares, we are talking about the end of the world! | 14:40 |
| aquatix | gomiam: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ | 14:41 |
| gomiam | ok, ok. Anyway, since I always use pidgin on my other computers, I find it easier to keep with it (it's easy to carry configuration data too) | 14:41 |
| aquatix | lcuk_work: hm, maybe i *should* raid that office | 14:41 |
| aquatix | gomiam: fair enough | 14:41 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, so in that case you'll be "rich" by owning cans of beans? | 14:41 |
| lcuk_work | anyway, must dash - cigs and tps reports await | 14:41 |
| * lcuk_work groans | 14:41 | |
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| RST38h | johnx: something is telling me the gold will still sell.... | 14:42 |
| aquatix | meh, like cigarettes are more important than the end of the world | 14:42 |
| aquatix | reminds me, i should forfill my world domination before it's too late :/ | 14:42 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, that interface is lickable, that's just so sexy | 14:43 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, it depends on how *&$%ed everything is. | 14:43 |
| gomiam | aquatix: of course they are. Chain-smokers might not get to see the end of the world ;-) | 14:43 |
| RST38h | johnx: also, on the bright side, all those Japanese otakus will finally get their dream | 14:43 |
| RST38h | johnx: especially if Kim decides to nuke Tokyo in the closing act | 14:43 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, Japan has been constantly living in a "the end of the world could be tomorrow" scenario | 14:43 |
| RST38h | johnx: Given seismic activity and no resources, no doubt... | 14:44 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, earthquaks, tsunamis, typhoons, food shortage, economic collapse have all been around the corner | 14:44 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, it's business as usual in Japan... | 14:44 |
| RST38h | johnx: basically, I do not expect too many problems east of the Estonian border | 14:44 |
| gomiam | (must be a really big corner) | 14:44 |
| RST38h | johnx: all the way to US/Canada west coast =) | 14:45 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, it could be a problem for Japanese banks to disentangle themselves from US banks, if things get worse | 14:45 |
| RST38h | well, they will take a loss | 14:45 |
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| RST38h | Canon, Fuji, Panasonic, Sony will have to find different markets too | 14:46 |
| johnx_ | heh...the yen is doing good though | 14:46 |
| johnx_ | makes me happy | 14:46 |
| RST38h | USD is actually rising lately | 14:47 |
| johnx_ | the other thing is that if the West stops having disposable income it will hurt the Japanese electronics companies | 14:47 |
| lardman | johnx_: the japanese banks had some of the largest loans to Lehmanns | 14:47 |
| johnx_ | lardman, yeah, shinsei is not too pleased with themselves right now | 14:47 |
| aquatix | johnx_: myeah, but frankly i don't see everyone stopping buying phones and such anytime soon | 14:48 |
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| aquatix | it'll dwindle | 14:48 |
| johnx_ | aquatix, will they buy expensive sony-stuff or cheap Chinese phones? | 14:48 |
| * aquatix will buy sony-stuff | 14:48 | |
| RST38h | expensive sony stuff is still made in China | 14:48 |
| aquatix | only less often :) | 14:48 |
| RST38h | And may get bought by Chinese in the end | 14:48 |
| aquatix | not that i buy too often already anyway | 14:49 |
| * lardman makes a break for food while the rain holds off | 14:49 | |
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| johnx_ | RST38h, and ford is made in Mexico, but the big part of the money flows into the US... | 14:49 |
| RST38h | johnx: Ford is made everywhere | 14:49 |
| RST38h | johnx: Especially considering that Mazda is Ford ;) | 14:49 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, everywhere but the US... | 14:50 |
| RST38h | johnx: Not sure, maybe | 14:50 |
| RST38h | johnx: Here is it made near SpB | 14:50 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, neither am I, but it sounded good | 14:50 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Let's Ford avoid 60% import tax on foreign cars | 14:50 |
| * johnx_ is off for a bit to pay bills, get some coffee | 14:50 | |
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| RST38h | I guess, given the nature of this channel, the right question should be "How is Finalnd doing?" =) | 14:51 |
| XTL | Going to hell | 14:52 |
| RST38h | At least it will get a bit warmer there... | 14:53 |
| johnx_ | nah, it's the barren wasteland version of hell | 15:00 |
| RST38h | ohm the nordic version | 15:00 |
| johnx_ | the question is "Where should I move?" | 15:00 |
| RST38h | NZ? | 15:00 |
| RST38h | Well, if 50% chance of skin cancer is ok with you | 15:00 |
| aquatix | hm, anyone know where i can get python2.5-terra (0>= 0.1.8-maemo1) ? | 15:02 |
| aquatix | minus that first 0 | 15:02 |
| aquatix | now canola2 is not installabe | 15:02 |
| johnx_ | aquatix, they're working on it. disable extras-devel and install beta9 | 15:02 |
| Mek | for me canola2 is only not upgradable :) | 15:03 |
| aquatix | johnx_: aight | 15:03 |
| aquatix | i'll wait then | 15:03 |
| aquatix | Mek: yeah, i uninstalled to make room | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | johnx_: are hildon apps able to run outside hildon btw? like, how do they react? | 15:09 |
| johnx_ | Stskeeps, they don't love it, but there's a lot of individual pieces of "hildon" | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 15:09 |
| johnx_ | without the custom window manager, they have no menu | 15:10 |
| johnx_ | without the hildon gtk theme they don't look right | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | packages.tspre.org is up and running now btw, with keys and one mirror | 15:11 |
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| Stskeeps | and i'm thinking to make "tablet specific" versions of some packages such as NM, like, network-manager-tablet which has Provides: network-manager so it doesn't conflict directly | 15:14 |
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| aquatix | do you guys have adblock working with microb? | 15:22 |
| RST38h | yep | 15:23 |
| RST38h | it slows microb down though | 15:23 |
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| Anunakin | Hi All! | 15:25 |
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| zap_ | let's hope the new total-magic javascript interpreter from mozilla project will make adblock faster :) | 15:28 |
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| RST38h | AdBlock really has to be updated for Diablo | 15:29 |
| RST38h | So far it has not been | 15:29 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h, yeah, I had the feeling it was making matters worse than anything else | 15:33 |
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| lopz | hola | 15:42 |
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| aquatix | odd, i installed all the updates, but uname -a still says i'm running 2.6.21-omap1 from Jul 16 (yes, i rebooted :) | 15:57 |
| aquatix | Linux Nokia-N810-23-14 kernel | 15:58 |
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| crashanddie | aquatix, even worse, I still have 2.6.21 from Jun 25th | 16:06 |
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| derf | lardman|lunch: Pong. | 16:09 |
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| * Jaffa grumbles at people moaning at him for being accurate when they've failed in things *they themselves* have said are essential. | 16:16 | |
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| Cyorxamp | Lo, have had N810Wimax (UK edition) on preorder from expansys for 2 months | 16:21 |
| Cyorxamp | On phone to expansys now, and they say it'll never arrive :) lol | 16:21 |
| ccooke | Cyorxamp: oh? | 16:21 |
| Cyorxamp | BUT! That a new Nokia tablet is about to be launched, on hold... getting details now | 16:22 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, right. | 16:23 |
| ccooke | Jaffa: no, no. I can believe the "it'll never arrive" bit... | 16:23 |
| Jaffa | Well, yes | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | at expansys, sure. | 16:23 |
| Cyorxamp | apparently 'wimax isn't popular in the UK' ... just had to educate the guy on that this is about to change | 16:24 |
| Cyorxamp | Freedom4 to be in 15 major cities by end of year, roaming turned on february, BT likely to use it for rural areas to complete 21CN | 16:24 |
| Cyorxamp | He's like... 'oh' | 16:24 |
| lcuk2 | god i hate warcraft | 16:24 |
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| ccooke | lcuk2: don't play it, then? | 16:25 |
| ccooke | Has the n810WE shipped anywhere? | 16:26 |
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| lcuk2 | ccooke i dont, but i hear about it all day every day \@/ | 16:27 |
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| ccooke | lcuk2: well, look on the bright side. You're not paying for it... | 16:28 |
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| lcuk2 | in a way i am :) | 16:29 |
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| ccooke | in the time you listen to the poor addicts? | 16:29 |
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| Cyorxamp | Apparently the new Nokia tablet will have Wimax | 16:32 |
| Cyorxamp | finished for 6 months from now, on shelves in a year | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | old news though | 16:32 |
| Cyorxamp | will target both UK and US markets | 16:32 |
| X-Fade | Cyorxamp: Obviously the sales person at the other side is clueless. | 16:32 |
| aquatix | wonder when we get a tablet with LTE | 16:32 |
| Cyorxamp | probably | 16:32 |
| Cyorxamp | Apparently 4 (including me) have preordered this UK N810WE :P | 16:33 |
| Cyorxamp | FOUR! :( | 16:33 |
| ccooke | aquatix: Less Than or Equal? | 16:33 |
| Cyorxamp | he is seeing what he can do to 'aquire' one | 16:33 |
| ccooke | Cyorxamp: not a surprise, to be honest | 16:33 |
| aquatix | I think LTE is going to be more widely spread than wimax | 16:33 |
| lardman | aquatix: I think we'll get 3G before 4G | 16:33 |
| aquatix | ccooke: long term evolution | 16:33 |
| aquatix | lardman: yeah, or that :) | 16:33 |
| Cyorxamp | Oh I'm set for 3G with a HSDPA E51 phone, could go for a N810 right now | 16:33 |
| aquatix | ccooke: 4G technique | 16:33 |
| Cyorxamp | but I want to be ready for Wimax, Wimax launches in this city late this year, early next | 16:33 |
| aquatix | Cyorxamp: N810 is awesome as-is :) | 16:33 |
| Cyorxamp | people need to wake the fuck up! | 16:34 |
| aquatix | ah | 16:34 |
| ccooke | Cyorxamp: like it or not... there just isn't enough wimax in the UK to make people interested. So you have an absolutely tiny market for such devices, and the n810we is a tiny fraction of *that*... | 16:34 |
| Cyorxamp | yes but there will be market, soon - in the works - ;) | 16:35 |
| crashanddie | I do believe wimax is going to be a big flop anyhow | 16:35 |
| Cyorxamp | and I'm impatient :) | 16:35 |
| Cyorxamp | I think WiMax is going to be the final hit, WiMax + VDSL/Cable = Cheapr broadband for everyone/everywhere | 16:35 |
| ccooke | I do wonder if nokia will scrap the n810we entirely, though | 16:35 |
| Cyorxamp | as well as VoIP for all | 16:35 |
| crashanddie | the only way to get wimax widely accepted is by hitting hard on one occasion. It's not enough of a revolution, because at this point, from my contacts at ISPs and stuff, WiMax is not going to bring cheap wireless broadband. Because the infrastructure is going to be sooo expensive, and there are going to be amazing hickups | 16:36 |
| aquatix | wonder when they'll have a big wimax network here in the netherlands | 16:36 |
| ccooke | Cyorxamp: It's not fast enough, it's not ubiquitous enough and (for voip) it can't do emergency calls. | 16:36 |
| aquatix | seems a company in belgium is planning to do a belgium-wide one | 16:36 |
| crashanddie | in other words, ISPs are going to have you pay premium price, and that's just not good enough | 16:36 |
| X-Fade | aquatix: Well, we have it in Amsterdam. A bit. ;) | 16:37 |
| aquatix | X-Fade: yeah, a bit | 16:37 |
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| Cyorxamp | BT are planning a country wide one | 16:37 |
| crashanddie | The only way to get WiMax going is by hitting during one single event, somewhere in the world. And for me, that's the 2012 olympics | 16:37 |
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| crashanddie | if they miss that, wimax is deadborn | 16:37 |
| aquatix | i think they should focus on LTE | 16:37 |
| ccooke | Cyorxamp: and, six months or so after it's *working*, I'd expect to see dedicated wimax devices. But the first generation of users will mostly be laptops with cards. | 16:37 |
| lardman | WiMAX vs LTS; is this an ISP vs Telco war too? | 16:38 |
| Cyorxamp | bah! I did say I was impatient | 16:38 |
| Cyorxamp | Telco's are dead | 16:38 |
| Cyorxamp | BT is becoming a networking company, period. | 16:38 |
| lardman | not if they can push LTE though | 16:38 |
| Cyorxamp | through where? | 16:39 |
| lardman | Telco as in mobile phones I was thinking | 16:39 |
| aquatix | lardman: hm, good point | 16:39 |
| crashanddie | The average price we're going to pay for wimax is what... 50quid something for starters? Might go down to 30quid, but that's where it's going to stay. And telco + ISP have already squeezed a whole lot of budget out of families, budget which wasn't required 15 years ago. I don't know if 30 extra quid is going to cut it for the average family | 16:39 |
| lardman | atm I'd have to pay ~£5/month for data | 16:40 |
| lardman | so wimax would beat that, assuming it has coverage | 16:40 |
| Cyorxamp | crashanddie, in Milton Keynes its £13 ($25) a month for a 2mbps connection | 16:40 |
| Cyorxamp | as cheap as ADSL | 16:40 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: Most people have one internet plan and a laptop. The internet plan can be replaced by WiMax and run on the laptop. | 16:40 |
| AStorm | Cyorxamp: w/o download limits? :P | 16:41 |
| crashanddie | 15 years ago, you had one phone line. 30 quid a month. These days, the average family has 4 or 5 cell phones, + internet. That's an amazing budget to get people invest yet some more | 16:41 |
| * lardman pays ~£20/month for broadband + phone line iirc | 16:41 | |
| Cyorxamp | AStorm, exactly | 16:41 |
| AStorm | what upload? | 16:41 |
| Cyorxamp | Wimax is suffering from ANTI-HYPE | 16:41 |
| Cyorxamp | Nothing more | 16:41 |
| ccooke | Cyorxamp: ... wait, you didn't think BT were a network company? wow. | 16:41 |
| lardman | Cyorxamp: lots of hype but no delivery | 16:41 |
| AStorm | well, HSPA is better | 16:41 |
| Cyorxamp | ccooke, No I already know they are, My job is entirely dependant on 21CN | 16:41 |
| AStorm | better range, better access | 16:41 |
| lardman | I'm looking forward to HSPA | 16:41 |
| AStorm | but currently expensive (e.g. 25$ for 1GB data = outrage) | 16:42 |
| Cyorxamp | we already have HSPA here | 16:42 |
| Cyorxamp | but HSPA still needs a stupid sim card, wimax is just get the gear, get your username | 16:42 |
| lardman | AStorm: hspa can also be done for ~£5/month | 16:42 |
| aquatix | Cyorxamp: HSDPA? | 16:42 |
| AStorm | lardman: not in this country (it's 60 PLN ;P) | 16:42 |
| Cyorxamp | aquarius-, exactly | 16:43 |
| lardman | AStorm: fair enough | 16:43 |
| aquatix | LTE basically is the successor to HSDPA | 16:43 |
| Cyorxamp | so is Wimax :P | 16:43 |
| AStorm | aquarius-: HSDPA is the download | 16:43 |
| AStorm | HSUPA is the fast upload | 16:43 |
| aquatix | Cyorxamp: technically ;) | 16:43 |
| crashanddie | Cyorxamp, 2Mbit is BULLSHIT. Horsecrap. I used to pay 30euros (25quid) for 100Mbit download and 50Mbit upload. Plus I had amazing services. I don't care so much about the amount I can download, I just care for the service that comes with it. And when I say "I", I'm talking on behalf of general consumer joe | 16:43 |
| AStorm | combined, you get HSPA ;P | 16:43 |
| aquatix | AStorm: ah yeah :) | 16:43 |
| Cyorxamp | crashanddie, all I'm saying is there no silly £50 minimum attached to wimax - today | 16:44 |
| Cyorxamp | My money is on a GSM and SIM free future | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | Yeah, we'll see about that ;) | 16:44 |
| Cyorxamp | Just pluck broadband out of the air | 16:44 |
| AStorm | what do you have against SIM? | 16:44 |
| aquatix | AStorm: i saw them both and as i see `HSDPA' advertised as UMTS upgrade, i thought it was plain HSDPA they are providing, but of course it's just two protocols | 16:44 |
| ccooke | Cyorxamp: who pays and how? | 16:44 |
| lardman | Cyorxamp: you'd still need to pay an ISP though | 16:44 |
| Cyorxamp | AStorm, you have to take it with you, so you can only have 1 device using it | 16:45 |
| AStorm | aquatix: because HSUPA is more expensive | 16:45 |
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| AStorm | Cyorxamp: ah that, indeed | 16:45 |
| AStorm | but then, you want a cellphone on you all the time anyway | 16:45 |
| aquarius- | Cyorxamp, AStorm: please be careful when using <Tab> completion | 16:45 |
| ccooke | Cyorxamp: you get multiple sims on the same account. | 16:45 |
| Cyorxamp | ccooke, Freedom4 run the current wimax system in the UK, BT have their own plans for later, I think the Isle of Man run a system too | 16:45 |
| AStorm | aquatix: heh, sorry | 16:45 |
| AStorm | argh | 16:45 |
| aquarius- | LOL, again :) | 16:46 |
| AStorm | aquarius-: ^ | 16:46 |
| aquarius- | i see :) | 16:46 |
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| crashanddie | Actually, anyone like betting? | 16:46 |
| aquatix | AStorm: :P | 16:46 |
| Cyorxamp | ccooke, still need multiple stupid numbers tho - telephone numbers are OLD | 16:46 |
| AStorm | it's XChat's fault for not having MRU tabcomplete | 16:46 |
| ccooke | yes, but how do you *pay*. What is the mechanism of tying a user to an ISP? | 16:46 |
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| AStorm | ccooke: login and pass | 16:46 |
| ccooke | Cyorxamp: they're equivalent to MAC addresses, though ;-) | 16:46 |
| Cyorxamp | pluck broadband out of the air with a username/password (like a wifi hotspot) and then get called using your SIP URI | 16:46 |
| ccooke | AStorm: Okay, then. Who owns the common infrastructure? | 16:46 |
| AStorm | your ISPs | 16:47 |
| X-Fade | ENUM anyone? :) | 16:47 |
| aquatix | ENUM++ | 16:47 |
| Cyorxamp | You have to bear in mind ENUM launches this week in the UK, and by 2011 there will no analogue phone lines | 16:47 |
| aquatix | feh, analogue phone lines... | 16:47 |
| * aquatix has voip at home | 16:47 | |
| aquatix | over adsl | 16:47 |
| AStorm | oh, it'll take some 10 more years for that to get into this country | 16:47 |
| crashanddie | uses exclusively SIP here | 16:47 |
| ccooke | AStorm: Collectively? As in: I want to connect to ISP foo, you want to connect to ISP bar. Who arbitrates where my connection/login details go to? | 16:47 |
| Cyorxamp | WiMax + VoIP = Death to normal GSM phones | 16:47 |
| Cyorxamp | All hail the Nokia tablet with wimazx | 16:48 |
| ccooke | Cyorxamp: you need to add location support there. | 16:48 |
| johnx_ | heh...they'll still emulate analog phone lines for years at various points | 16:48 |
| aquatix | Cyorxamp: and interoperability? | 16:48 |
| ccooke | otherwise there is *no* hope of you ever replacing a normal phone. | 16:48 |
| aquatix | i'd like to call my grandma now and then ;) | 16:48 |
| Cyorxamp | aquarius-, wimax is a standard - revised many times, but finally finalised | 16:48 |
| AStorm | Cyorxamp: WiMax is local | 16:48 |
| Cyorxamp | Wimax can roam | 16:48 |
| Cyorxamp | like GSM | 16:48 |
| AStorm | to have global wimax, you need huge infrastructure | 16:48 |
| AStorm | GSM has that already | 16:48 |
| Cyorxamp | Indeedy, just like GSM | 16:48 |
| Cyorxamp | bollox to GSM | 16:48 |
| Cyorxamp | :D | 16:48 |
| johnx_ | the future is devices with multiple radios... | 16:49 |
| crashanddie | People who believe wimax is going to replace GSM in the near future are idiots | 16:49 |
| AStorm | no, because that eats power | 16:49 |
| johnx_ | AStorm, not when the radio is off... | 16:49 |
| Cyorxamp | well I'm ready for that too... my nokia can be HSDPA and Wimax ready :P | 16:49 |
| RST38h | afaik, what you are really interested in is the cell size | 16:49 |
| AStorm | johnx_: hmm, well ;P | 16:49 |
| crashanddie | And people who believe we're going to get decent coverage from WiMax in the near future are double that idiots | 16:49 |
| RST38h | and cell size is different for different GSM frequencies | 16:49 |
| Cyorxamp | crashanddie, not _near_ future, but eventually | 16:49 |
| RST38h | wimax cells are pretty small though, right? | 16:49 |
| aquatix | crashanddie: indeed | 16:49 |
| AStorm | RST38h: no, like, city-sized | 16:49 |
| aquatix | RST38h: no | 16:49 |
| aquatix | quite large even | 16:50 |
| AStorm | they're large if speed is low | 16:50 |
| aquatix | compared to gsm | 16:50 |
| AStorm | small if speed is high | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | Cyorxamp, yeah, and eventually, we'll have a cancer-free world, and peace everywhere on earth | 16:50 |
| RST38h | ah | 16:50 |
| aquatix | crashanddie: if humankind has died out ;) | 16:50 |
| Cyorxamp | well I have to go eat now | 16:50 |
| aquatix | Cyorxamp: enjoy | 16:50 |
| Cyorxamp | we'll wait and see :) | 16:50 |
| RST38h | animals and plants also have cancers | 16:50 |
| AStorm | cancer-free? you can't have that due to biology | 16:50 |
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| aquatix | wimax eats a lot more battery than gsm | 16:50 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: I think they call humanity a cancer | 16:51 |
| johnx_ | aquatix, gsm base with on-demand wimax? | 16:51 |
| ccooke | AStorm: you can to within experimental error. You just kill everyone before they reach about 25... | 16:51 |
| RST38h | Something I can't really argue against... | 16:51 |
| AStorm | aquatix: due to low frequency used, more power is needed | 16:51 |
| AStorm | ccooke: wrong! :> | 16:51 |
| aquatix | ccooke: ooh, children of the corn :) | 16:51 |
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| ccooke | AStorm: well, go on and tell me why :-) | 16:51 |
| johnx_ | AStorm, wimax is higher frequency than most gsm bands... | 16:52 |
| AStorm | ccooke: because you still have inherited ones | 16:52 |
| AStorm | johnx_: wasn't it 700 MHz? | 16:52 |
| aquatix | ccooke: however, even kids get cancer, leukemia and such :( | 16:52 |
| AStorm | where GSM is 900 lowest? | 16:52 |
| ccooke | aquatix: "within experimental error", you may note ;-) | 16:52 |
| johnx_ | AStorm, 2.4GHz, 2.5Ghz and 3.5GHz, IIRC | 16:52 |
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| AStorm | johnx_: hmm | 16:52 |
| johnx_ | the 700MHz band is something else... | 16:52 |
| RST38h | GSM starts at 450MHz | 16:52 |
| AStorm | ah, so it's microwave | 16:52 |
| aquatix | There is no uniform global licensed spectrum for WiMAX, although the WiMAX Forum has published three licensed spectrum profiles: 2.3 GHz, 2.5 GHz and 3.5 GHz | 16:52 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, who uses 450MHz? | 16:53 |
| AStorm | thus the high energy needed ;P | 16:53 |
| aquatix | ^ wikipedia | 16:53 |
| RST38h | johnx: Siberia | 16:53 |
| AStorm | it's absorbed by water | 16:53 |
| RST38h | johnx: Not a lot of operators but some | 16:53 |
| ccooke | AStorm: What do you mean by "inheritable cancer"? | 16:53 |
| AStorm | ccooke: there are many, heh | 16:53 |
| johnx_ | RST38h, I'm just thinking of the "big 4" in "quadband gsm" | 16:53 |
| ccooke | I've heard of *infectious* cancer, which is a nasty little thought, but not ineritable | 16:53 |
| AStorm | I mean, genetic diseases predisposing to juvenile cancers, use the damn google ;P | 16:53 |
| crashanddie | god damn it, I've been trying to find a word for nearly 3 minutes | 16:53 |
| aquatix | crashanddie: which? | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | johnx_: you found some glorious solution to gksu/gksudo and on screen keyboards yet? | 16:54 |
| ccooke | AStorm: ahhh! Now that I know about. | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | aquatix, heh... | 16:54 |
| RST38h | johnx: Those are 850, 900, 1800, 1900 | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | aquatix, a world that can never exist | 16:54 |
| AStorm | and in EU, 900 is used | 16:54 |
| RST38h | johnx: But when you need REALLY big cells, you have to go with 450 | 16:54 |
| aquatix | utopia? | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | aquatix, cheers xD | 16:54 |
| aquatix | \o/ | 16:54 |
| aquatix | utopia is an ideal world | 16:54 |
| AStorm | RST38h: but no phones support it, so no one does that | 16:54 |
| RST38h | AStorm: There are phones that support it | 16:55 |
| johnx_ | Stskeeps, no such luck | 16:55 |
| AStorm | minority | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | well, it's not relevant anymore, now | 16:55 |
| Stskeeps | johnx_: alright | 16:55 |
| RST38h | AStorm: You probably won't like using one, but they exist | 16:55 |
| AStorm | uberold? | 16:55 |
| RST38h | no, just dumb | 16:55 |
| AStorm | example | 16:55 |
| RST38h | a moment | 16:56 |
| AStorm | (anyway, cells here don't support 450 MHz) | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | johnx_: i'm thinking to try deblet on myself as i'm not satisfied with diablo :P | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | and see what problems arise | 16:56 |
| AStorm | pity you can't have 3G+ over bluetooth really | 16:57 |
| AStorm | BT is slow ;P | 16:57 |
| RST38h | AStorm: As I said, they are deployed where you can't place too many transceivers | 16:57 |
| AStorm | == nowhere | 16:57 |
| johnx_ | AStorm, isn't BT2+EDR fast enough to not be a bottleneck? | 16:57 |
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| AStorm | hmm, well, does it do 15 Mbit? | 16:58 |
| RST38h | AStorm: http://www.macom.com/Markets/Cellular/pdf/Cellular_GSM_Handset.pdf | 16:58 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: these are for special applications | 17:00 |
| AStorm | I've yet to see a 450 MHz cell in Europe | 17:00 |
| RST38h | AStorm: But long distance cell service in the tundra IS a special application don't you think? | 17:00 |
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| AStorm | yes :> | 17:01 |
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| ShadowJK | It's a long time since I saw a 450MHz cellphone :) | 17:02 |
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| AStorm | hmmh, my ISPs DNS server just died | 17:05 |
| X-Fade | AStorm: Opendns? | 17:05 |
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| AStorm | nah, DNS is alive ;P | 17:08 |
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| aquatix | RST38h: better get iridium for that ;) | 17:11 |
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| AStorm | opera dns caching... :/ | 17:15 |
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| RST38h | He said that so far, in the eyes of the world, the pirates had been misunderstood. We dont consider ourselves sea bandits, he said. We consider sea bandits those who illegally fish in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas. We are simply patrolling our seas. Think of us like a coast guard. | 17:20 |
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| str8edge | what's the best way to gain root access on an 810 w/diablo | 17:24 |
| StsN800 | install rootsh from extras | 17:25 |
| str8edge | thanks! | 17:25 |
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| Woolly-Work | hey folks | 17:33 |
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| aquatix | hi Woolly-Work | 17:35 |
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| Woolly-Work | how's everyone today? | 17:36 |
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| Jaffa | andre___: got your #2677 updates, want to share what NB#83819 says? ;-) | 17:37 |
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| andre___ | Jaffa, it says "exactly the other way round is a bug" :-) | 17:38 |
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| andre___ | pressing esc should bring back from fullscreen to normal view, and not close the window | 17:39 |
| Jaffa | Well, that's just bollocks :) | 17:39 |
| andre___ | sure :-) | 17:39 |
| Jaffa | Or, is the "UI Specification" on the side of insanity? ;-) | 17:39 |
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| andre___ | Jaffa, I often have the feeling that it is. :-P | 17:40 |
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| Woolly-Work | anyone using X forwarding with scratchbox? | 17:41 |
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| andre___ | Jaffa, sorry for behaving supersecret - I've posted the content now in 2677 | 17:42 |
| Jaffa | Thanks | 17:42 |
| * Jaffa prepares a rant :) | 17:43 | |
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| RST38h | andre: The pressing esc thing is kind of senseless | 17:54 |
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| RST38h | After all there is a separate button to switch between window and full screen | 17:54 |
| andre___ | RST38h, i know that button exists. but if you press Esc you'd expect the window to close. At least I do :) | 17:55 |
| * aquatix would expect the window to close | 17:55 | |
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| aquatix | and the main window to remain as-is, like in the bug comment | 17:55 |
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| RST38h | andre: Actually I do close the window on ESC =) | 17:56 |
| RST38h | But I do not think the main window should remain as is | 17:56 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: yes, agreed - we've got a fullscreen toggle button, there's no need to dual-purpose escape. | 17:58 |
| RST38h | andre: I think the problem here is that windows inside an app are allowed to have different window/fullscreen status | 17:58 |
| RST38h | andre: In fact, when you press FullScreen button, all the app windows should switch to full screen, retaining relative order | 17:58 |
| RST38h | Then, closing the topmost window with ESC will reveal the one below it, without changing fullscreen to window | 17:59 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: ping | 18:05 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: you know much about wlan-cal? | 19:23 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, not much | 19:23 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm just wondering why my in-deblet wlan-call fails.. it does have all the stuff needed | 19:24 |
| qwerty12 | Are you running it from initfs chroot? | 19:25 |
| yacoob | mmmm | 19:27 |
| yacoob | updated microb displays tiddlywiki properly | 19:27 |
| yacoob | that's a great thing. | 19:27 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yeah | 19:31 |
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| moontiger | whats tiddlywiki? | 19:45 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, does debian play with /dev/mtd1 in any way? | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: not in any way at all | 19:46 |
| qwerty12 | hmm | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | there's ofcourse the obscure fsck bug i had with udev and rootfs.. | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | which may apply to mtd1 too | 19:47 |
| * Stskeeps straces dsme | 19:47 | |
| qwerty12 | how come you are trying to run wlan-cal now? | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | a hunch regarding the fact that the signal strengths and so on are low | 19:48 |
| Stskeeps | it's because gain and shit isn't set | 19:48 |
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| qwerty12 | Ah | 19:48 |
| qwerty12 | Is cx3110x in memory? | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | insmod'ed yeah | 19:49 |
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| Stskeeps | cal-tool gives errors too | 19:49 |
| yacoob | moontiger, http://www.tiddlywiki.com - self-contained, js-based wiki | 19:49 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, sounds like generic cal error then. Do you have libcal in /usr/lib/dsme (something like that) | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 19:50 |
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| * yacoob wants gears for new microb | 19:50 | |
| Stskeeps | ah. | 19:52 |
| Stskeeps | found problem | 19:52 |
| Stskeeps | cal.mtd1.lock | 19:52 |
| moontiger | interesting thnx :) | 19:53 |
| qwerty12 | yacoob, scratchbox :P | 19:53 |
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| yacoob | qwerty12, yeah, I just can't bring myself to do it, I find whining much much easier 8) | 19:56 |
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| qwerty12 | hehe, I'd offer but ndiswrapper is pissing me off the point that I'm actually, honestly enjoying using vista | 19:56 |
| Mousey | that's it. i'm convinced. | 19:57 |
| * Mousey switches to windows | 19:57 | |
| qwerty12 | lol | 19:57 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: get decent hardware? ;) | 19:58 |
| johnx_ | qwerty12, aaah memories of the time when I bought cheap hardware and then tried to make it work with linux | 19:58 |
| johnx_ | s/time/years/g | 19:58 |
| infobot | johnx_ meant: qwerty12, aaah memories of the years when I bought cheap hardware and then tried to make it work with linux | 19:58 |
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| qwerty12 | aquatix, can't be bothered in all honesty. I actually like this wireless stick. I'm more annoyed that the ti wlan oss driver doesn't support my stick despite having same chipset | 19:59 |
| qwerty12 | johnx_, :) | 19:59 |
| * qwerty12 is a cheap shit. I admit. | 19:59 | |
| johnx_ | qwerty12, I used to be, until finally my time > my money | 20:00 |
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| johnx_ | give it a couple years, it'll happen to you, too :) | 20:00 |
| * aquatix runs to the store for some additional rice | 20:00 | |
| qwerty12 | Hehe, tonight, I'm worrying about whether to get chicken wings or a burger :P | 20:00 |
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| aquatix | damn stuff is all gone and i'm hungry | 20:00 |
| johnx_ | aquatix, you need to buy bigger bags :) | 20:01 |
| qwerty12 | Lol, come East London and ask any of us Asians here :P | 20:02 |
| * qwerty12 parents keep a large tub of rice under the stairs :P | 20:02 | |
| qwerty12 | Shame I don't like rice >.< | 20:02 |
| johnx_ | I've got 10kg next to me right now :) | 20:02 |
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| johnx_ | damn good thing I don't mind rice :) | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | johnx_: think i've solved the wlan MAC problem + the signal strength stuff now :) | 20:03 |
| johnx_ | Stskeeps, woo! | 20:03 |
| macoute | johnx_: ill back up your formula, when my time > my money, price of my hw > price of the cheapest hw :) | 20:03 |
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| johnx_ | Stskeeps, ah, I'll poke at hildon-input-method in sawfish. I have some time right now :) | 20:04 |
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| johnx_ | macoute, actually it's often not much more expensive. Sometimes a $12 bt dongle instead of an $8 bt dongle. It just means research before buying :) | 20:05 |
| macoute | thats true | 20:09 |
| macoute | and its kinda sad too :) it was and is fun to make a useless piece of shit turn out almost as good as 2 times more expensive dongle :) | 20:10 |
| johnx_ | right, but now when I do that I make sure it's on purpose :) | 20:11 |
| johnx_ | "this might not work but it will be fun to mess with" vs "I need this to work NOW!" | 20:11 |
| macoute | : | 20:12 |
| johnx_ | my n800 is the latter and my old zaurus is the former :) | 20:12 |
| aquatix | johnx_: they run out eventually anyway | 20:17 |
| johnx_ | aquatix, I guess I don't eat enough :) | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | johnx_: btw, wget http://packages.tspre.org/repo.key, apt-key add repo.key, and change repo in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/deblet.list (i think) to packages.tspre.org instead | 20:17 |
| aquatix | johnx_: :) | 20:18 |
| johnx_ | Stskeeps, will do | 20:18 |
| melmoth | anybody knows how to make the virtual keyboard (if its a n800, or if the real keyboard is not out) appear in gtk ? | 20:18 |
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| Luria | mmmm zaurus | 20:21 |
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| Luria | maybe after the sunray and qube, ill find something to do with that | 20:21 |
| johnx_ | Luria, nice formfactor...but not quite fast enough :/ | 20:21 |
| Luria | i know, my 5600 is over there | 20:22 |
| johnx_ | actually, I want to put my 5500 somewhere as a light webserver or something | 20:22 |
| Luria | something wrong with the charging circuit | 20:22 |
| johnx_ | sad :( | 20:22 |
| Luria | how many light LAMPs do geeks need | 20:22 |
| johnx_ | my 5500's battery is shot. it can't be much else | 20:23 |
| aquatix | Luria: the more the merrier | 20:24 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx_: package updates in repo now, so just update and apt-get dist-upgrade to get it .. if it complains about update-rc.d, rm /etc/init.d/tablet-wireless | 20:24 |
| Luria | Products evolve until they can play mp3s, send email, and run linux. then they die and become light web servers. | 20:24 |
| Luria | Then the page gets /.'ed. | 20:25 |
| johnx_ | Luria, it's the main sequence of gadgets :) | 20:27 |
| Luria | yeah | 20:28 |
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| Luria | there's no nx client for maemo, right? | 20:29 |
| johnx_ | I thought there was at some point | 20:30 |
| johnx_ | I've seen it for years and never once actually got it working on anything :/ | 20:30 |
| Luria | i wish nx were a bit more oss friendly for porting sake | 20:30 |
| Luria | sad that my favorite remote protocols are rdp and nx | 20:31 |
| yacoob | nx is open, isn't it? | 20:31 |
| yacoob | besides, it's just compressed X...? | 20:31 |
| Luria | sorta | 20:31 |
| Luria | compressed x over ssh | 20:32 |
| Luria | there arent any good free clients | 20:32 |
| Luria | freenx is a fine server tho | 20:32 |
| Stskeeps | okay, network-manager is a bit disturbd | 20:33 |
| rm_you | johnx_: ping :) | 20:33 |
| rm_you | X-Fade: ping | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | it's showing me (after a reboot), combined local APs and uni ones (i'm not at uni..) | 20:33 |
| Luria | PONG | 20:33 |
| johnx_ | rm_you, poke! | 20:33 |
| rm_you | johnx_: ^_^ | 20:33 |
| johnx_ | rm_you, just preordered a pandora :) | 20:33 |
| rm_you | :) | 20:33 |
| rm_you | I haven't been working much so I can't afford gadgets >_> | 20:34 |
| * lcuk drools in the wrong chan | 20:34 | |
| johnx_ | rm_you, It's technically a combined early/late birthday present from a lot of people :) | 20:34 |
| rm_you | :) | 20:35 |
| rm_you | you're going to be back for XMas, yes? | 20:35 |
| johnx_ | rm_you, yup. I'll let you see it. :) | 20:35 |
| rm_you | ^_^ | 20:35 |
| rm_you | more interested in hanging out in general, it's been too long | 20:35 |
| johnx_ | definitely | 20:36 |
| johnx_ | it'll be nice to be back *sighs* | 20:36 |
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| ion_cu_vaca | hi | 20:47 |
| ion_cu_vaca | anyone using soft pover off with the new os update? | 20:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, pong. | 21:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | ion_cu_vaca, still broken. | 21:03 |
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| Macer | well | 21:06 |
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| Macer | itdebian ..er..deblet.. or whatever they call it is a little better now | 21:07 |
| Macer | still wish it had bt support | 21:07 |
| Macer | well.. bt phone support | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | it does, if you hack it a bit :P | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | look in deblet hack challenges | 21:07 |
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| Stskeeps | wvdial is broken so it complicates stuff on armel | 21:08 |
| johnx_ | do we really need wvdial? | 21:08 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade, still around mate? | 21:09 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx_: most GUIs use it | 21:10 |
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| johnx_ | Stskeeps, ah, I thought it was a real blocker, not just an ease of use thing | 21:11 |
| Macer | heh | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | it is a wrapper really | 21:11 |
| Macer | how do i get rid of that dock on the left? | 21:11 |
| Macer | that thing seems rather pointless and takes up too much space | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | which env are you on? | 21:12 |
| Macer | beta3 | 21:12 |
| johnx_ | tap+hold to move it | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | okay, that's the old version :P | 21:12 |
| johnx_ | should pop up a menu with options | 21:12 |
| Macer | oh man | 21:12 |
| Macer | you kidding me? :) | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | was it a tar.gz? :P | 21:12 |
| Macer | i just finished installing it heh | 21:12 |
| johnx_ | oh noes! | 21:12 |
| Macer | tar.bz2 | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | yup, old version | 21:12 |
| johnx_ | yeah, I did that a long time ago | 21:12 |
| Macer | well.. i didn't see the new version on the site | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | pre-deblet | 21:13 |
| Macer | damn | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: i'd wait some days, the new installer is a lot better :P | 21:13 |
| johnx_ | Macer, play for now but don't get attached :) | 21:13 |
| Macer | heh | 21:13 |
| Macer | i installed it on a 4G sd i had lying around | 21:13 |
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| ion_cu_vaca | GeneralAntilles, when in soft poweroff, my led blinks, any idea why? | 21:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | ion_cu_vaca, check the Display settings in control panel. | 21:14 |
| Macer | hm | 21:14 |
| Macer | where are you guys keeping the newer stuff? | 21:14 |
| ion_cu_vaca | all the checkboxes are unchecked | 21:14 |
| Macer | internet tablet kind of sends you to your old site | 21:14 |
| ion_cu_vaca | and still blinks | 21:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | ion_cu_vaca, I don't know. | 21:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Soft poweroff is broken. | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: trac.tspre.org | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet | 21:15 |
| Macer | once the bt phone stuff works then this will be perfect | 21:15 |
| Macer | :) | 21:15 |
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| Macer | did you guys ever figure out how to get that address bar stuff in epiphany turned off? | 21:15 |
| johnx_ | Macer, yeah, switched to midori :) | 21:16 |
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| Macer | damn | 21:16 |
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| Macer | i must be on last year's stuff huh? :) | 21:16 |
| Macer | what engine does midori use? | 21:16 |
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| johnx_ | webkit | 21:16 |
| Macer | epiphany worked well with my zimbra server | 21:17 |
| johnx_ | nah, just a couple months ago. but Stskeeps has been doing insane amounts of work on this | 21:17 |
| johnx_ | well, there's ff3 as well aka iceweasel | 21:17 |
| Macer | could do anything on it... the browser osso has doesn't work well | 21:17 |
| Macer | it is awesome | 21:17 |
| Macer | :) | 21:17 |
| Macer | i wish i had an n800 for the qwerty | 21:17 |
| Macer | n810 i mean | 21:18 |
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| Macer | i was going to buy one but flinched because there wasn't anything that worked with my zimbra server.. it would always render wrong | 21:18 |
| johnx_ | in microb? | 21:18 |
| johnx_ | you should try it after the latest update. people have reported improvements | 21:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | MicroB is always improving. | 21:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | So talking about it from 8 months ago is about as un-useful as it gets. | 21:19 |
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| * Luria is looking forward to ff3 on pandora | 21:19 | |
| * Stskeeps just managed to kill his buildbox, lovely | 21:20 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Luria, so it can run like shit? | 21:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | FF3 is already on the Beagle. | 21:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guess what? | 21:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | It runs like shit. | 21:20 |
| Macer | wasn't the whole point of the last firmware update that you don't have to update the firmware anymore? | 21:20 |
| Macer | all updates were supposed to be on the fly | 21:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, uh, they are. . . . | 21:20 |
| Luria | microb is no wonder of the world | 21:20 |
| Luria | really, i checked civ4. | 21:21 |
| Macer | then i am running the latest microb and it does not render zimbra correctly | 21:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Luria, it's a helluva lot faster than FF3 on the same hardware. | 21:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, 4.2008.36-5? | 21:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | and have you bothered filing a bug? | 21:21 |
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| Luria | right, but microb on omap 2 vs. ff3 on omap 3? | 21:21 |
| Macer | not really.. i'd rather use debian ... sts and johnx have done great work | 21:22 |
| johnx_ | GeneralAntilles, are you running angstrom on that? want to try midori 0.21 for me? | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | still a lot to go:P | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Luria, FF3 is still slow. | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx_, I'm still in trashed-mode at the moment. | 21:22 |
| Macer | once the bt phone dun works it would be perfect | 21:22 |
| johnx_ | ff3 is too memory hungry | 21:22 |
| Macer | ff3 is a pig | 21:22 |
| johnx_ | Macer, it already does if you're willing to meddle with the command line, or so I would assume | 21:22 |
| Luria | i find it ok on some crappy systems. better than ff2. | 21:23 |
| Macer | i tried that for quite a while but that was with beta3 also | 21:23 |
| Macer | i was able to bind them.. but the actual dialing part was a pain | 21:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | jott, ping. | 21:23 |
| Macer | there was something missing.. can't remember what it was.. i believe the network interface for the bt dun stuff | 21:23 |
| johnx_ | Luria, how much memory do those systems have? 256MB and swap makes all the difference from 128MB | 21:23 |
| zap | soo, are there any more PSU martyrs out there? | 21:23 |
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| zap | or I'm the only one :) | 21:24 |
| Luria | 128 with swap | 21:24 |
| Luria | but no crazy 200 tab sessions like my xp box :-) | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221269&postcount=16 | 21:24 |
| johnx_ | Luria, fast swap would be the difference | 21:24 |
| Luria | 5400rpm ata is fast? | 21:25 |
| inz | Luria, depends on what you compare it with | 21:25 |
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| johnx_ | Luria, yes, compared to SD cards. Also a fast processor makes up a lot of the difference | 21:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre___, oh hell, Jaffa shot some holes in that plan. . . . | 21:29 |
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| andre___ | what plan? | 21:31 |
| * andre___ is too lazy to read the backlog | 21:31 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre___, the versioning thread on -community | 21:35 |
| Macer | Stskeeps - how is deblet with bt keyboard support? | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: haven't tried | 21:35 |
| Macer | would be even more awesome if it worked with my su8w :) | 21:35 |
| Macer | ah. after i install the newest ver then i'll try mine out | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | it's probably possible since su-8w keymaps are in deblet | 21:36 |
| robink | When Application Manager complains "Not enough memory in target location", what is it referring to? | 21:36 |
| Macer | ah.. it would be nice to map the special keys | 21:36 |
| robink | The root filesystem or /media/mmc2? | 21:36 |
| johnx_ | Macer, none of the bt stuff will work quite the way it does on os2008. it will be closer to the way it works in debian on the desktop | 21:36 |
| Macer | the ones you would use on an n95 | 21:36 |
| Macer | i never really used much bt stuff in debian | 21:36 |
| Macer | never really had a reason to.. never had a desktop with bt nor needed it | 21:37 |
| robink | Oh, the root filesystem | 21:37 |
| Macer | but i'll try it out once i re-install the newer ver | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: you bored and want to try out the upcoming new version? :P | 21:38 |
| andre___ | GeneralAntilles, 4.1, 4.1+1 (=current 4.1.1), 4.1.1 (=current 4.1.2). but even that wouldn't solve the sorting issue. i love unsolvable problems :-P | 21:38 |
| Macer | sure if you have a place to download it | 21:38 |
| Macer | if you guys don't mind i was going to host your stuff in a little bit | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | sure, sec | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: if you want to provide rsync+ssh and a apache virtual host our mirror infrastructure is already up | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: did you install Deblet before? if so, remove the deblet repo from application manager | 21:39 |
| Macer | no.. i just used the bz2 from beta 3 on a fresh 4G | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | k | 21:40 |
| Macer | i installed it with the installer a while ago when you were working on it | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/deblet-diablo.install if you use diablo | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, check the deblet repo is gone, we switched | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:40 |
| Macer | ok.. i'll download it in a minute | 21:40 |
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| Stskeeps | and verify the deblet-installer package is 2.something | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | and install nit-env-lxde is prolly your best shot | 21:42 |
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| Macer | i'm wiping the beta3 now | 21:48 |
| Anunakin | de | 21:49 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: yes | 21:51 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Sorry, was away now ;) | 21:51 |
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| Macer | 2.3-1 | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | perfect | 21:52 |
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| Jaffa | G | 21:53 |
| Macer | unable to install deblet-installer application packages missing: zenity roxterm | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | oh, right | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | lemme just include those | 21:53 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: hopefully we can come up with a version strategy which works - maybe even Nokia telling us what SSU updates they're planning *cough* | 21:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I doubt they know themselves. | 21:53 |
| Macer | i don't have a rep with zenity or roxterm :) | 21:54 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: SSU2 seemed to have been planned with the whole "oh, this was rushed, but the second one'll have sources & stuff; honest!" | 21:56 |
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| Macer | you going to add those pkgs to your rep Stskeeps ? | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: yeah, working on it | 21:57 |
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| Macer | awesome | 21:57 |
| jott | GeneralAntilles: pong. | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damnit, jott, I just closed that tab. :P | 21:59 |
| jott | :d | 21:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3602#c9 | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: added, use .install file again and make sure it updates deblet repo with components: main user | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | (you'll know if it doesn't :P) | 22:00 |
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| jott | GeneralAntilles: oooh! now see nokia legal for slapping the bitch out of flash support etc :) | 22:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Let 'em try. | 22:02 |
| Macer | well.. it installed something in utilities | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Honestly, though, I bet we can fetch the proprietary stuff from tableteer. | 22:02 |
| Macer | added a bootmenu setup huh? :) | 22:03 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: is easy | 22:03 |
| Macer | already have the bootmenu set up so i'll skip that.. although i'm tempted to mess with it | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | jott, something that might be interesting to push. | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: yeah, - is it my bootmenu patches? | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | as in, the one you have already | 22:03 |
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| Macer | i need a patch for the bootmenu? | 22:04 |
| Macer | what does it patch? | 22:04 |
| jott | GeneralAntilles: yeah main problem is to cherry-pick proprietary stuff. but the idea itself seems good. | 22:04 |
| jott | ok. brb. | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: basically, install bootmenu from the utilities if you want to use deblet - the reason is because we use some additional features needed to make deblet boot well, and support boot menu items (in /etc/bootmenu.d) that are flashed to the initfs upon refresh_bootmenu.d , so you don't have to handmake your bootmenu.conf | 22:05 |
| Macer | wow... lots of envs to choose from | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, use -lxde for now | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | the others i havent tested after the makeover | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | -> #maemo-meeting | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman | 22:06 |
| Macer | which bootmenu options did you change for it to boot well? | 22:06 |
| lcuk | meeting | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | etrunko :P | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: i've added support so OS's can subvert the initfs fuckiness totally (excuse my language), allow for booting OS'es in a file, etc | 22:07 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: is as usual okay to listen in? | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, #maemo-meeting is open. ;) | 22:07 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Sure. It is public ;) | 22:07 |
| Macer | ah... ok. i'll run the bootmenu first then work on the install... i'll letyou know how it goes | 22:07 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: And a log will be posted. | 22:07 |
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| Stskeeps | call it morbid curiosity, or something ;) | 22:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey, timsamoff! | 22:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | -> #maemo-meeting | 22:08 |
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| Macer | hm | 22:10 |
| Macer | is the bootmenu supposed to be run after the install? | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | it can be either really | 22:11 |
| Macer | i just ran it and it wiped my bootmenu config and i don't have the ability to boot from my internal card anymore | 22:11 |
| Jaffa | Oh, is that tonight? <sigh/> | 22:11 |
| Macer | blk0p2 is what i usually use | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: sec | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23051 | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | read my post about .items | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | and set up one for your internal card | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | (don't use _LINUXRC there) | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | and then run refresh_bootmenu.d | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: and probably needs to be noatime,rw for maemo if it's so | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: when deblet is installed, a Deblet item will be added, for instance | 22:14 |
| Macer | ah ok | 22:14 |
| * robink had to uninstall a bunch of stuff to install the OS2008 update. | 22:17 | |
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| Macer | ok.. have the menu now | 22:27 |
| Macer | going to install the actual deblet in a sec | 22:27 |
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| Macer | it just retrieved packages and is trying to install now... do you keep the term for debugging purposes? | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | yes, and some debconf questions | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | cos not all people want to install GTK for the graphical debconf | 22:32 |
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| Macer | ah.. i see.. i just used the gtk one.. figured using a console for the stuff would be bothersome | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | k | 22:32 |
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| Stskeeps | it's not that bad | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:32 |
| Macer | ncurses? | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | but uhm, got a n810 or a n800? | 22:33 |
| Macer | n800 | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | cos i don't know if it's possible to use the on screen keyboard in the GTK one | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | don't hang me up on that though | 22:33 |
| Macer | heh | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | you'll find out i guess | 22:33 |
| Macer | yeah | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | i use the console one cos its just easier :P | 22:34 |
| lardman | derf: hey, how's the toolchain working? | 22:34 |
| derf | lardman: Haven't tried it yet. I'm at work. | 22:34 |
| lardman | derf: ah, timezones :) | 22:34 |
| Macer | well... i'll let you know if it works.. if it doesn't then i'll go ahead and try again with the ncurses stuff | 22:34 |
| derf | lardman: I was at work until almost 2 AM this morning, timezones have little to do with it. | 22:35 |
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| Macer | roxterm is nice to have in maemo tho | 22:35 |
| lardman | derf: ouch | 22:35 |
| Macer | kind of nice the installer installs it | 22:36 |
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| robink | The system update broke my N810. | 22:37 |
| aquatix | robink: in what way? | 22:38 |
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| robink | aquatix: Network config won't launch, hildon doesn't recognise the keyboard | 22:39 |
| robink | ... | 22:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | apt-get -f install | 22:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and maybe dpkg --configure -a | 22:40 |
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| robink | GeneralAntilles: apt-get -f install seems to be doing that. | 22:41 |
| johnx_ | gah, do I have *any* sd cards without bad blocks?! | 22:43 |
| aquatix | johnx_: buy some decent brand? or be a little more kind to the poor things ;) | 22:43 |
| johnx_ | testing linux distros and being kind are kind of mutually exclusive | 22:43 |
| RST38h | moo all | 22:44 |
| aquatix | :) | 22:44 |
| johnx_ | but yeah, I guess I should figure out a decent brand | 22:44 |
| aquatix | moo robink | 22:44 |
| aquatix | gah, tab error | 22:44 |
| johnx_ | m00f RST38h | 22:44 |
| aquatix | moo RST38h | 22:44 |
| aquatix | johnx_: sandisk serves me fine | 22:44 |
| RST38h | how are things in the maemoland? | 22:44 |
| johnx_ | aquatix, see, that's the thing. sandisk is the only type of card I've had the completely died on me. | 22:44 |
| aquatix | ha :) | 22:45 |
| aquatix | transcend maybe? | 22:45 |
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| johnx_ | and they've (sandisk) historically worked poorly with the zaurus | 22:45 |
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| * johnx_ puts his 2gb card through a badblocks test | 22:46 | |
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| RST38h | poor Sun Microsystems at $7.60/share... and to add insult to the injury, its ticker is JAVA :) | 23:06 |
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| aquatix | RST38h: they did that on purpose even | 23:10 |
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| RST38h | aquatix: poor self mutilating things... | 23:19 |
| RST38h | not as bad as HPaq merge of course but still | 23:20 |
| aquatix | :) | 23:20 |
| RST38h | sleep time. | 23:21 |
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| aquatix | * RST38h has quit, machine has gone to sleep | 23:28 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: regarding the whole open source of things discussion - atleast i've used a lot of nokia sources for working out how the device works for deblet and devel purposes | 23:46 |
| Stskeeps | it's always nice being able to open the box and see what drives the machinery to develop better for the device | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, you want to elaborate a bit on that and toss it on the wiki form Quim? | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/form/for/ | 23:47 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Stskeeps, you want to elaborate a bit on that and toss it on the wiki for Quim? | 23:47 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: will think about it.. but one of the big research things these days is that users have easier understanding how their systems work and use them if they can open it up and alter to their behaviour | 23:48 |
| Stskeeps | +making it easier for users | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, having concrete examples is going to be _really_ useful | 23:48 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, probably :P | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | So documenting your example isn't just a "feel good" thing. | 23:49 |
| Stskeeps | bootmenu is probably the most wide use of the fact the OS is "open source" though | 23:49 |
| Stskeeps | rotation support | 23:49 |
| Stskeeps | .. advanced backlight | 23:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pfft | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Advanced Backlight isn't an example of that | 23:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | it's an example of exactly why the closed components hinder development. | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | true | 23:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Showing Nokia management the cool things people do with the open source stuff, and exactly how much money those cool things could make them. . . . ;) | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | i guess nokia is a bit in a interesting place - they're both OS and hardware provider | 23:52 |
| johnx_ | similar situation to apple really | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | .. for my own sake, i think some of the deblet things might be interesting and they're definately based on the OSS things from maemo :P | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: the trouble is, open sourcing stuff like the App Manager doesn't help when the plans that the corporate sponsor is doing with it are closed. | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | Who's going to hack on it without knowing the patches will be accepted? | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, yeah, true enough. | 23:53 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Next time: bring that up during the meeting ;) | 23:53 |
| Jaffa | So without open development, open code's almost useless | 23:53 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: family got the better of me ;-) | 23:53 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: That is a task, you know. | 23:53 |
| Jaffa | "Open development"? | 23:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The following error was encountered: | 23:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Zero Sized Reply | 23:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's new. | 23:54 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: I'll have a look at Package_Categories tomorrow, and start contributing to the talk page | 23:54 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Great! I will join you there ;) | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_Source_Proof_Points | 23:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | After fighting with categories last night with jott, I'm way ready to help push that one. | 23:55 |
| Stskeeps | are there actually people using Mamona, btw? | 23:55 |
| Stskeeps | like, actively? | 23:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, not many. | 23:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | It only recently got to the point of usable. | 23:56 |
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| johnx_ | I might look at it...I have an on-again off-again love affair with openembedded | 23:56 |
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| Stskeeps | they've done a shitload of interesting stuff tablet hacking wise, but i'm not sure they at all target the .. user | 23:56 |
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| johnx_ | Stskeeps, looks like they're working on infrastructure first | 23:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wow | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | rtcomm beta is moving to Extras-devel? | 23:57 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Yes, I'm working with those guys to get it in there. | 23:57 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: No convincing needed btw. | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, I'd never have seen that one coming. | 23:58 |
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| Jaffa | Cool | 23:58 |
| * GeneralAntilles slaps dneary for Maemo.org | 23:58 | |
| dneary | whu'? | 23:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Karma&diff=7523&oldid=7518 | 23:59 |
| dneary | Ah | 23:59 |
| dneary | That must have been automatic capitalisation of the first letter in the sentence | 23:59 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Heh, well more repos tomorrow ;) | 23:59 |
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