IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-09-01

RST38h	Yes, packages lke PaintShop make use of this property to remove it intelligently	00:00
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t_s_o	i see now that i came into this from the wrong angle. i guess it comes from one to many consumer "discussion" about something or other where one inevitably bump into some mediaphile that will argue that anything below a SLR is a waste of money even if all your going to take pictures of is your dog...	00:04
GAN800	Anything below SLR just isn't any fun.	00:06
t_s_o	that would depend on ones definition of fun...	00:06
t_s_o	the fun of taking the picture, or the fun found in the picture...	00:07
lcuk	high definition dog pictures are a purchasing requirement	00:07
GAN800	Camera fun	00:07
GAN800	The pictures are just a side effect of camera fun. :p	00:08
lcuk	my next camera MUST have a single missing feature: to be able to zoom without turning off the mic	00:08
lcuk	when it zooms it goes silent \@/	00:08
GAN800	Buy a DSLR	00:08
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GAN800	oh, camcorder	00:08
qwerty12_N008	bruv, a fun camera would be one that fires pellets	00:08
GAN800	I'd just get a cheap camcorder for video.	00:09
lcuk	GAN800, no, just a regular digital compact with decent recordign will do me	00:09
RST38h	DSLR is an overkill	00:09
RST38h	Good camera is a camera that you will not hesitate to take with you	00:09
t_s_o	either im talking chinese or im failing to pick up some irony	00:09
GAN8001	I don't hesitate to take mine with me. :P	00:09
lcuk	t_s_o, do you use your irony board for eaxtreme sports?	00:10
RST38h	Just means you are freakier than other people currently present =)	00:10
t_s_o	heh, good question	00:10
GAN8001	Point-and-shoot cameras just get in the way of taking pictures.	00:10
RST38h	It does, I agree	00:10
RST38h	But I can place it in my pocket, unlike DSLR	00:10
GAN8001	True enough, but my neck holds things fine.	00:11
RST38h	And, after some buggering, it produces decent results too	00:11
lcuk	jesus GAN800 my image of you now has to include a DSLR \@/ ffs i was just getting used to imagining you with a bat utility belt full of 810's	00:12
GAN8001	I don't have any N810s	00:12
lcuk	ok 770s and 800s	00:12
GAN8001	770 stays at home. :P	00:12
GAN8001	cellphone, N800, keys, wallet, watch, and sometimes a Leatherman.'	00:12
mavhc	how do they get in the way of taking pictures?	00:14
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GAN8001	mavhc, have you ever used a DSLR?	00:15
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mavhc	occasionally	00:15
GAN8001	Well, with a DSLR, you turn it on, it's on, you press the button, it takes the picture, you press the button again, it takes another picture.	00:15
GAN8001	With a point-and-shoot, you turn it on, it extends the lens . . . starts up . . . waiting . . . waiting	00:16
GAN8001	You press the button, it takes forever to focus and shoot	00:16
mavhc	you have to wait up to 1 whole second!	00:16
GAN8001	you press again . . . writing . . . writing	00:16
GAN8001	Yeah and my Rebel shoots 3.5fps	00:16
GAN8001	It gets in the way	00:16
mavhc	no, to start up	00:16
lcuk	GAN8001, what happens when you need to use flash with your dslr?	00:17
lcuk	does that have charging time?	00:17
GAN8001	lcuk, I press a button on the left of the body, the flash pops up, it uses it.	00:17
lcuk	and 3.5fps isnt very high - mine shoots at 25fps	00:17
GAN8001	Not much of one.	00:17
GAN8001	lcuk, it's not video	00:17
mavhc	lcuk: not at full res it doesn't	00:17
GAN8001	Yours doesn't shoot beautiful 10MP pictures at 25fps.	00:17
RST38h	GAN: My Casio focuses and shoots instantly	00:17
GAN8001	RST38h, and then the next shot? :P	00:18
lcuk	RST38h, not instant, but well within expected range	00:18
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RST38h	GAN: There are image quality problems of course, but none of the performance problems you describe	00:18
mavhc	if I put it in multishot mode it does 2-3fps	00:18
RST38h	GAN: It shotts at 50fps	00:18
GAN8001	Point and shoot just isn't any fun to shoot with.	00:18
GAN8001	Gets in the way and doesn't do what you tell it to.	00:18
RST38h	GAN: And it shoots 7.5mpx at 4fps	00:18
GAN8001	You have to fight the camera to get the shot you want.	00:19
GAN8001	That's not fun.	00:19
RST38h	Actually, it does - this partilcular casio has a manual mode	00:19
lcuk	mine does as well	00:19
RST38h	It is very limited due to primitive optics, but it does let you tell it what to do	00:19
mavhc	I point the camera at the subject, press the button, how is it getting in the way?	00:19
RST38h	mavhc: In ideal conditions it does not	00:19
mavhc	what does not?	00:19
GAN8001	Shoot with DSLR more	00:20
GAN8001	I'm not really out to convince anybody	00:20
GAN8001	Point-and-shoot doesn't work for me.	00:20
lcuk	getting in the way is like the n810 - noisey image, poorly designed software, no manual settings. but most consumer handhelds now are quite advanced and packed with decent features	00:20
RST38h	mavhc: Otherwise, you are gonna get: 1) low dynamic range (whites washed out), 2) purplse fringing (shoot foliage), 3) high noise (shoot indoors), 4) wrong color temperasture (shoot indors with artificial lightning)	00:20
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RST38h	mavhc: Should I continue? =)	00:20
t_s_o	the question then becomes, do the user care about those things?	00:21
mavhc	point and shoot: pros: no neck strain, no loans to pay off, fits in more places, no need for a manual	00:21
* lcuk doesnt		00:21
RST38h	BUT, in spite of all these problems, you can still place it into your pocket, unlike DSLR	00:21
mikkov_	brontide: autobuilder generates .install files autimatically: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/diablo/install/	00:21
mavhc	RST38h: it has white balance	00:21
RST38h	t_s_o: I am pretty sure that at least 30% of the users do care	00:21
lcuk	and those may go on to get a dslr when required	00:22
RST38h	mavhc: yea, so it will be either underexposed or underexposed :)	00:22
mavhc	hadn't noticed any problems	00:22
lcuk	i have nothing against a pro camera, its just a consumer handheld does the trick	00:22
GAN8001	mikkov_, I think he just pulled the Chinook files over.	00:22
GAN8001	Or something may have changed since I last talked to him about it.	00:23
GAN8001	Dunno.	00:23
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GAN8001	http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg16210.html	00:23
mavhc	obviously for the other 10% of photos you need the larger sensor/better zoom/extra 0.5 seconds of speed starting up	00:23
mikkov_	.install is always generated for extras-devel. But when you promote a package to extras .install isn't generated.	00:24
lcuk	mavhc, i would rather have any image at all than not be able to take something larger	00:24
jott	i would like to play around with the exilim pro ex-f1 with 1200 fps video recording :)	00:25
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lcuk	yes, but bandwidth would be a problem	00:25
lcuk	1200fps pure hd video :D	00:25
GAN8001	It's, what 2xx*1xx?	00:25
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jott	GAN8001: yes, 336x96	00:26
jott	still nice	00:26
jott	512x384 at 300 fps, 432x192 at 600 fps	00:26
robink	zyrlcj	00:26
robink	Sorry	00:27
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lcuk	jott! holy moly	00:28
mavhc	bandwidth is their problem too	00:29
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lcuk	do not underestimate the amount of bandwidth of a gaggle of nuns with large pockets in their habits	00:29
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mavhc	in fact, do not estimate it at all	00:31
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lcuk	why not? perfect disguise	00:32
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jott	the ccd via nun connection will save the day!	00:34
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robink	Is there a Debian (maemo) patch for the lightmediascanner source?	00:46
qwerty12_N008	robink: the debianisation is already in the source	00:48
* qwerty12_N008 loves the new xarchiver		00:48
mavhc	does anyone else find video center getting confused about which rss item is which file? mine thinks some items are already downloaded, when clicking play they play another video	00:49
mavhc	the details window details are correct	00:50
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robink	qwerty12_N008: I just pulled the git tree and I'm not seeing it.	00:50
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qwerty12_N008	robink: I'm looking here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/source/l/lightmediascanner/ .	00:51
robink	Oh, extras-devel...	00:51
robink	qwerty12_N008: Thanks, I was looking in pool/chinook/extras/free/source (or trying to)	00:55
qwerty12_N008	No problems, it's more worth looking in diablo as more source packages get uploaded there due to the autobuilder.	00:56
robink	Ah.	00:57
* moontiger takes sbox out back and shoots it ... "die motherf***er die!!"		00:58
* lcuk watches sbox get back up, dust itself off, pick up an axe and go hunting for moontiger		00:59
moontiger	mofo wont die and it sure wont work properly	00:59
lcuk	whats it breaking now?	01:00
moontiger	none of the standard apps are there or can be installed	01:00
moontiger	now it wont even show the ui	01:00
melmoth	Youhouuuuu	01:02
* melmoth is happy		01:02
melmoth	lcuk: i just computed my first gps route on the tablet !	01:02
lcuk	melmoth \o/ w00t i suppose?	01:02
melmoth	indeed.	01:02
lcuk	is this using maemo mapper	01:03
melmoth	there may even be some ram left for text to speech.	01:03
lcuk	god no	01:03
lcuk	tis ok	01:03
melmoth	of course i want audio.	01:03
lcuk	head in about 10 zillion places (as usual)	01:03
melmoth	this is for bike.	01:03
melmoth	for rent a boke to be exact	01:03
melmoth	there is a demo working for PC here: http://sd-2175.dedibox.fr/pic/demo-sayhoo-0831.tar.gz	01:04
melmoth	all is included, tiles, pickled graph data and sql database	01:04
Proteous	Mmmm, pickles	01:04
moontiger	melmoth, nice one!!	01:04
melmoth	but for the tablet, i had to change the pickle in smaller bits, and pickel array instead of proper objects.	01:04
melmoth	the tool to preapre tiles, pickle and database are on the svn, as well as the code that works with it.	01:05
melmoth	moontiger: the problem is, i am afraid it really use lots and lots of ram, and it would be difficult to adapt to another bigger town	01:05
lcuk	melmoth - you have created a lot of data	01:05
melmoth	sorry londoners.	01:05
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moontiger	melmoth, im in san fran so i dont care about london	01:06
moontiger	:)	01:06
qwerty12_N008	we forgive you :p	01:06
melmoth	for the demo to works, go in the src directory and launch "python sayhoo"	01:06
melmoth	i am afraid san francisco is bigger than paris too :)	01:06
melmoth	but lots of bike over here.	01:06
moontiger	yes	01:06
* melmoth thinks of william gibson's virtual light		01:07
moontiger	san fran is really small actually	01:07
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melmoth	lcuk: it does not use maemo mapper, i had a look in it (i even some a patch ;-) ) ; but c is not my cup o tea.	01:07
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lcuk	melmoth, so you load up and process the osm database and display on the nokia	01:10
melmoth	i download the osm data, parse the xml to feed a database.	01:10
melmoth	then i realised i had to have all the data in memory , fetching it on a per needed basis was too slow.	01:11
melmoth	so i just created a big object with all the graph, and pickled it.	01:11
* lcuk has never heard of pickling data		01:11
melmoth	serialisation of data the python way.	01:11
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* pupnik wants to port Scorched3D to N9x0		01:12
melmoth	if you encounter some "no nodes" , it s because i forgot to remove subways nodes.	01:12
pupnik	hey GAN8001 got any opengl demos running yet?	01:12
lcuk	melmoth, looking at pickling, its just serialising the data in the order you need it	01:13
melmoth	pupnik: what about wormux instead ? :)	01:13
lcuk	hi pupnik	01:13
GAN8001	pupnik, still working on the serial console. :\	01:13
melmoth	it s serialising the data so i do not have to think how serialisation works :)	01:13
* melmoth has a lazy approch of problem solving		01:14
lcuk	but wont you have the same problem if you aim to get the data out of sequence?	01:14
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GAN8001	I'm getting something now, at least	01:14
GAN8001	But it's just gibberish	01:14
melmoth	lcuk: i think so, that s why i try to serialised simple hash structure instead of complex object.	01:14
melmoth	works faster and it took less space	01:14
melmoth	but, then, all my nice object call had to change in the code.	01:15
qwerty12_N800	melmoth: wormux runs on the n8x0 :p	01:15
moontiger	can someone tell me how i get this piece of sh*t sbox to actually work???	01:15
melmoth	so why would you like scorched earth ? Wormux beat all of those ballistical games.	01:16
lcuk	melmoth, you arent the only one hard at work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7SViwZwqoc	01:17
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melmoth	beautifull.	01:20
melmoth	is that sdl based ?	01:21
GAN8001	xv	01:21
* moontiger nukes sbox		01:22
moontiger	what a pile of steaming crap that is ... nice one nokia	01:22
melmoth	lcuk: i am really really interested in the 'code editor' thingy you showed.the one with scrollin.	01:22
* melmoth is looking for a texvtiew sdl widget for a while.		01:22
mavhc	melmoth: I always prefered the ballistic games without 207 weapons, 1 is enough	01:23
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lcuk	melmoth, im interested in it as well	01:24
lcuk	and now i have my tiles in place maybe i can get back to it	01:24
* lcuk had to vanish		01:24
melmoth	good night, i ll ask you about this later on :)	01:24
lcuk	im back now, but i had a call of nature..	01:25
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melmoth	ahaha	01:25
lcuk	why textview sdl	01:25
melmoth	i was saying at second 30, there is a "code editor" thingy.	01:25
lcuk	is there such a thing for sdl	01:25
melmoth	not that i am aware of	01:25
lcuk	i made the startings of the editor, but i had no ui elements around to handle it properly, now everything exists within an arbitary rectangle i should be able to do much more than before	01:26
lcuk	the original elements were all whole screen, now thats not the case :)	01:26
melmoth	is that C ?	01:26
lcuk	yes	01:26
melmoth	hmmm.	01:27
melmoth	are sources available somewhere ?	01:27
melmoth	or will ?	01:27
* robink is trying to build lightmediascanner-ogg		01:27
lcuk	to the released version yes, the latest stuff has not been released in any for myet (barring the yt vid you just saw)	01:28
melmoth	do you have an url for the project i can have a look at ?	01:28
lcuk	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/liqbase/	01:28
melmoth	duh :)	01:29
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melmoth	i should have guess	01:29
melmoth	bookmarked. Time to sleep now.	01:30
lcuk	alrighty, dont get lost in your sleep	01:30
moontiger	am i just having a bad day or is the maemo.org website really slow as well?	01:30
GAN8001	It's always slow.	01:31
moontiger	it really is a frustrating experience trying to write software for the nokia series	01:31
moontiger	crap tools ... crap websites that dont work ...	01:31
GAN8001	Sounds like a bad day	01:31
* moontiger rants		01:31
lcuk	moontiger, crap tools? gcc works as expected on the nokia device	01:32
moontiger	lcuk, you know im finally coming round to the idea of doing dev on the tablet	01:32
* GAN8001 sighs.		01:32
moontiger	i didnt understand why people would at first	01:32
GAN8001	I really wish I had this connector.	01:32
moontiger	but now i get it	01:32
moontiger	the tools are absolute crap	01:33
GAN8001	Cross compilation sucks	01:33
GAN8001	Period.	01:33
GAN8001	Scratchbox 2 is better, though.	01:33
moontiger	sbox SUCKS	01:33
lcuk	moontiger, for me, it is simplicity, it does not solve every problem, but it is simpler in my own mind	01:33
lcuk	moontiger, cross compilation is always hard, i now have liqbase and i want to compile for maemo AND for x86 at the same time and its a challenge	01:34
moontiger	i run af-init blah blah and i get the text scroll up saying "desktop running" but nothing shows up in xephyr	01:34
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moontiger	uninstall sbox	01:34
moontiger	start again	01:34
lcuk	xephyr is a foolish thing, just compile, copy, execute directly on your tablet	01:34
moontiger	and people wonder why MS did so well?	01:34
GAN8001	What lcuk says.	01:34
GAN8001	Because they have less shitty tools?	01:34
GAN8001	Hardly.	01:34
lcuk	no GAN800 microsoft have decent tools as long as you stay on the rails	01:35
lcuk	and want to work slowly	01:35
moontiger	MS have great tools and mostly great docs	01:35
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moontiger	so even tho they have a shitty OS they get load sof apps for it	01:35
lcuk	well - .net isnt so hot on the docs side	01:35
moontiger	cos developing for it actually works	01:35
moontiger	mostly	01:36
* lcuk laughed out loud		01:36
moontiger	ok ok ok ... MS HAD great tools	01:36
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moontiger	vs2008 is crap too	01:36
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derf	As long as you didn't ever want to use any libraries not provided by MS.	01:36
lcuk	:) agreed 100%	01:36
derf	And didn't mind that half the API MS does provide does things it's not documented to do, or doesn't do things it is documented to do, or simply fails to work for odd reasons.	01:37
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lcuk	since coming to linux i am shocked by how far from "standard" code microsoft has gotten, having to use specific microsoft libraries for things which already work nicely on multiple operating systems	01:37
derf	I find it truly amazing that any Windows software gets written at all.	01:37
lcuk	its because ms software is available	01:37
moontiger	well clearly you are missing something there derf	01:37
moontiger	cos a whole crap load gets written all the time	01:38
moontiger	simply because the tool chain is there and works	01:38
derf	I hate to break it to you, but that is in no way the reason.	01:38
moontiger	even coding for smartfones and pdas works	01:38
GAN800	our toolchain is immature.	01:38
moontiger	derf ... then what is?	01:38
lcuk	and activex talks to all the main apps in windows - its fairly simply to mashup something	01:39
GAN800	Mobile Linux is only really a recent phenomenon.	01:39
GAN800	WTF is a 'fone'?	01:39
moontiger	GAN800, my issue is with nokia	01:39
derf	In the beginning there was no competition, and the tools were given away for free.	01:39
lcuk	moontiger, not very well - i hated that i could not get near the metal with .shit compact, it ran too slowly when i KNEW it could go faster	01:39
derf	It didn't matter how much they sucked.	01:39
lcuk	hence me getting this n810 and making it do what I want	01:39
derf	After that, there was a whole lot of money involved.	01:39
moontiger	derf, granted to some extent ... but the tools are superior	01:40
derf	I could've been paid a whole lot to put up with MS crap all day long, but after trying it out for a while, I decided this was not how I wanted to develop software.	01:40
moontiger	me either	01:40
moontiger	but the tools are better is all im saying	01:40
derf	I'm saying you're wrong.	01:40
moontiger	and the docs are better (except .NOT)	01:40
moontiger	hmmmmmmmmmm really	01:40
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moontiger	so whats the equiv of vs6 on linux?	01:41
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derf	The docs may be much more extensive... when they are not completely wrong. They are also often totally useless unless you already know what you're looking for.	01:41
lcuk	derf, i think moontiger means better as in streamlined, linux toolchain is better because it works on more systems	01:41
moontiger	thats the case with all docs	01:41
lcuk	its easy for someone to install visual studio x edition, and click the play button	01:41
lcuk	in linux, the toolchain config and preparation work involves understanding a whole lot more (which isnt a bad thing)	01:42
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lcuk	so people coming from windows pull their hair out for a while until they "get it "	01:42
dtatulea	hi	01:42
derf	Well, in Linux, your distro will usually come with the whole toolchain installed.	01:42
moontiger	lcuk, i agree and i think ive made it over the hair pulling stage	01:43
lcuk	yes, but hidden away inside multiple levels of archaic incantations	01:43
lcuk	windows users fear the console	01:43
* lcuk still has nightmares		01:43
moontiger	what i find really annoying is companies like nokia releasing a product and not having supporting docs and tools available	01:43
lcuk	moontiger, they HAVE though	01:43
GAN8001	That was part of the point, though.	01:43
glass	moontiger: nokia is not so bad in that regard	01:43
dtatulea	Somehow I managed to get my internal mem card to mount as read-only (n810). I can't unmount it (it's being used by something else). Any suggestions please?	01:43
moontiger	lcuk, they dont work	01:43
derf	lcuk: You have to learn plenty of archaic crap to develop for Windows, it's just different archaic crap.	01:43
glass	moontiger: compared to others	01:43
lcuk	i was under the impression scratchbox itself is partially supported/sponsored by nokia	01:44
GAN8001	They're not Apple, they didn't want to release a 100% polished product	01:44
derf	Like dealing with the 18 versions of libc MS has (all incompatible).	01:44
GAN8001	They wanted to involve the community in making an awesome product.	01:44
GAN8001	dtatulea, it's corrupt.	01:44
glass	GAN8001: apple doesn't relase 100% polished products....	01:44
lcuk	derf, agreed - but you only find that stuff out after you have deployed for the first time	01:44
moontiger	GAN800, thats great but they should .... you know ... SUPPORT the community too no?	01:44
GAN8001	glass, well, of course.	01:44
dtatulea	GAN8001: really?	01:44
GAN8001	But that's their GOAL	01:44
derf	lcuk: I would also argue that that's bad.	01:44
lcuk	yes derf, again agreed	01:45
moontiger	GAN800, when they make an OPEN product they should make it OPEN	01:45
moontiger	then they dont have to worry bout keeping tools up to date cos the community can do it	01:45
moontiger	but when they keep stuff hidden and closed and STILL dont update stuff its really annoying	01:45
GAN8001	The TOOLS are open.	01:45
lcuk	moontiger, no amount of money will cure the toolchain flow overnight	01:45
moontiger	right	01:45
lcuk	however lots has been done over the last couple of years to get us to os2008	01:46
moontiger	but sbox for example DOESNT work	01:46
lcuk	it does	01:46
moontiger	no it doesnt	01:46
lcuk	what fails on yours now	01:46
GAN8001	Lots of people use it without issue.	01:46
moontiger	i get a crap looking emulator with no apps or stuff installed and a whole bunch of errors everytime i start anything	01:46
pupnik	what emulator?	01:46
moontiger	sbox	01:46
lcuk	ok, compile for ARMEL and put it on your device	01:46
pupnik	i'm like the pavolovian dog with that word.. :/	01:47
pupnik	ok	01:47
moontiger	but the point of sbox is to have a test env	01:47
derf	Just because Nokia won't let you use the full NIT software environment in sbox is no reason to say sbox is crap.	01:47
lcuk	sbox is the compilation environment, xephyr is the emulator. do not use xephyr unless you have no device	01:47
moontiger	or you're writing a home screen applet	01:47
GAN8001	fwiw, there's work ongoing for full device emulation.	01:47
robink	kulve: Is there an update of ogg-support for diablo in the works?	01:48
moontiger	im just saying its annoying ... esp when having a bad dev day :\|	01:48
joshin	What do I add to the .desktop file to get an app to open in fullscreen?	01:49
moontiger	joshin ... look at the mediabox desktop file	01:49
lcuk	joshin, an app you have written, or a custom app someone else wrote?	01:49
joshin	My own 'app' which is really a shell script that connects to and opens a VNC window.	01:50
dtatulea	Okay, found the solution. Now I only have to umount the drive. It seems that it's being used. How can I diagnose who is using the drive? (no applications running)	01:50
joshin	Will do moontiger	01:50
* sp3000 misses context, confuses moontiger for a dance		01:50
moontiger	rofl	01:51
joshin	heh	01:51
* moontiger mutters and grumbles and gets over herself		01:51
pupnik	joshin: does the VNC client support a fullscreen command-line option?	01:52
pupnik	if not, you're prolly out of luck, afaik	01:52
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sp3000	something like moonwalk except with pouncing, I imagin	01:52
sp3000	e	01:52
lcuk	and roaring	01:53
* moontiger pounces and walks backwards		01:53
mikkov_	starting in fullscreen isn't .desktop issue, but application issue	01:53
GAN8001	Bugs #3655 and #3655 can't possibly not be dupes, can they?	01:53
lcuk	GAN800, without proper links i cannot tell, xchat wants to open chans with those idents	01:53
sp3000	GAN8001: no, bugzilla won't let you do that :P	01:54
pupnik	hope next tablet has somewhat faster wlan	01:54
GAN8001	sp3000, we've done that one too many times now. . . .	01:54
GAN8001	#3656	01:54
GAN8001	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3656 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3655	01:55
GAN8001	lcuk ^ :P	01:55
GAN8001	I could go for a bugbot	01:55
pupnik	or maybe 'wireless usb'	01:55
* sp3000 gets linkification on 'bug nnn'		01:55
lcuk	can we teach the bot to automatically do that for hashed numbers?	01:55
* sp3000 insults clients that don't do that		01:55
* sp3000 would mind a bugbot either though		01:55
GAN8001	I was testing one for a while, then he filed up my drive with 100GB of logs in about 24 hours.	01:55
GAN8001	lcuk, there's mozbot and a supybot plugin	01:56
lcuk	you arent meant to log the whole of freenode	01:56
GAN8001	Somebody besides me needs to set it up, though.	01:56
lcuk	whos the owner of our bot	01:56
lcuk	~lart botwranglers	01:56
* infobot pries botwranglers's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to botwranglers		01:56
lcuk	infobot..	01:56
GAN8001	TimRiker	01:56
GAN8001	infobot is in a bunch of channels	01:56
GAN8001	We'd need a maemo-exclussive bot.	01:56
lcuk	ahhh k	01:56
GAN8001	http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:maemo.org_IRC_feeds	01:57
sp3000	http://www.psychoticwolf.net/projects/firebot/ is the one running in moznet/firefox and others in those parts	01:57
lcuk	like hijacking marius's	01:57
GAN8001	If somebody wants to pick it up. . . .	01:57
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* lcuk ducks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZsyKq77_5s		01:59
sp3000	truth in advertising	01:59
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* GAN8001 hopes we get some leaked N900 spyshots soon.		02:03
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lcuk	GAN800, how do we know its gonna be an n900	02:03
lcuk	we have already seen spy shots of the nokia tablet thingy havent we	02:03
GAN8001	Er, which?	02:04
GAN8001	Oh, that Tube BS?	02:04
GAN8001	Or do you mean the N810 shots from July 2007? :P	02:04
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glass	tube? the symbian touch thing?	02:04
glass	not much to do with maemo?	02:05
GAN8001	I dunno what lcuk's on about.	02:05
MakeGho	next year's april fool's: nokia internet tablets switching to symbian	02:06
GAN8001	I'd die	02:06
GAN8001	or make somebody else die.	02:06
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lcuk	yes, the tube thing but now i look more closely ill shut up :)	02:08
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mavhc	at least symbian can multitask	02:13
lcuk	does nokia not multitask?	02:14
* lcuk is sure he can listen to music whilst sshing and running liqbase		02:14
GAN8001	A helluva lot better than Symbian can multitask	02:15
GAN8001	I'm not sure what we're comparing to here, though.	02:15
ShadowJK	the s40 "nokia os" vs s60 symbian?	02:22
GAN8001	That really doesn't make sense in the context of the discussion.	02:26
ShadowJK	yeah	02:26
ShadowJK	"at least symbian can multitask", wtf?	02:27
ShadowJK	compared to what	02:27
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GAN8001	Always defeated by lack of tools	02:47
GAN8001	First thing when I get a house	02:48
GAN8001	Fill a giant workshop with lots and lots of tools.	02:48
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fUD	Hi	02:57
fUD	Im getting an invalid wep key length when trying to connect to my macbook which has internet sharing	02:57
GAN8001	Are you confusing ASCII and HEX?	02:58
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fUD	Well I have a text key	02:59
fUD	Should I be doing something with that key?	02:59
GAN8001	OS X will show you a plaintext key	02:59
GAN8001	but it's actually HEX	02:59
fUD	Oh right	02:59
fUD	How can I convert it :)	02:59
GAN8001	So you need to enter the hex version on the tablet.	02:59
GAN8001	It should do it for you, actually,	02:59
GAN8001	Or maybe the Airport setup does that.	03:00
fUD	k - let me see	03:00
lcuk	i entered the wep key for mine in plaintext	03:00
GAN8001	lcuk, you don't have a Mac	03:00
lcuk	but depending upon which setting you have it must be a 5 or 13 charater key	03:00
GAN8001	Your input isn't relevant to this situation. :P	03:00
lcuk	we are talking about the tablet	03:00
GAN8001	Nah, this is an OS X issue.	03:01
fUD	Hmm its tiger - I dont see that anywhere	03:01
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lcuk	if theres a nonstandard router thats not doing things to spec take the faulty hardware back :)	03:01
fUD	:P	03:01
GAN8001	It's a convenience thing.	03:01
GAN8001	Apple just lets you enter a HEX key as a plaintext string.	03:02
GAN8001	Easier to remember.	03:02
lcuk	gan, thats cos hex is a subset of plaintext :)	03:02
fUD	How annoying :)	03:03
GAN8001	You may be missing what's happening	03:03
GAN8001	You give OS X an easy-to-remember string (say,	03:03
GAN8001	"password")	03:03
GAN8001	It converts it to HEX for use internally	03:03
GAN8001	Then on your other OS X machines you can enter the key as "password"	03:04
GAN8001	But the tablet doesn't do the conversion	03:04
fUD	http://snippets.dzone.com/posts/show/5026	03:05
fUD	That produces a key too long	03:06
fUD	sigh	03:06
lcuk	gan, thats standard - i enter keys on tablet in plaintext	03:06
lcuk	but i know it also has a hex counterpart	03:07
fUD	how can I get the plain text into hex I can type in..	03:07
lcuk	i really dont think you need to, but try this page http://www.csgnetwork.com/wepgeneratorcalc.html	03:09
lcuk	http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-154097.html	03:10
fUD	Let me try	03:10
fUD	Hmmzzz	03:12
fUD	Keep getting invalid key length	03:12
lcuk	ok, do you know the original passphrase you entered on your router	03:14
fUD	I do	03:14
lcuk	how is the router configured	03:14
lcuk	open/shared etc	03:15
fUD	Its the macbook pro with internet sharing	03:15
lcuk	similar in principle to me with windows xp and internet sharing	03:15
fUD	Dang - I got a meeting	03:15
fUD	bbl	03:15
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brontide	fUD: IIRC the OSX dhcp server is not liked by the nokia dhcp client... I would search on that first	04:33
brontide	Khertan: you awake... was wondering why Py2deb has a changelog item when generate seems to have it's own that ignores the one set in the class?	04:34
brontide	Khertan: also added icon support for Py2deb all 10 lines (including comments)	04:36
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RST38h	back	05:18
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robink	RST38h: Hello.	05:22
brontide	wiki's out again?	05:23
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GAN8001	Man, I fail so hard at serial stuff. . . .	05:25
GAN8001	At least I'm getting output that's timed like boot output	05:26
GAN8001	but it's all garbage characters.	05:26
GAN8001	Working here, brontide,	05:26
GAN8001	Reload.	05:26
brontide	shift reload finally got it	05:26
brontide	when is the new hardware coming?	05:27
Mikho	boom, ubuntu upgrade killed my os again	05:27
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Mikho	the installation paused to ask me if I want to save /etc/ntp or sth file, but there was no way to input the answer, as the computer was frozen	05:29
GAN8001	brontide, Nokia does not announce future hardware plans.	05:30
GAN8001	But I am playing with an OMAP3530. . . .	05:30
RST38h	but we already know it will be omap3	05:30
GAN8001	All of the @nokia commits to the linux-omap git kinda give it away. ;)	05:31
brontide	GAN8001: I think you misunderstood, when will the new server be in place already?	05:34
GAN8001	Oh	05:34
GAN8001	Ha	05:34
GAN8001	Well, I was under the impression that it was going to be last Monday.	05:34
GAN8001	But, uh, I guess that was incorrect.	05:34
GAN8001	Soon, I suppose	05:34
GAN8001	As the 100 days are almost up.	05:34
brontide	Does this make any sense I don't see an error https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/dialcentral_0.8.0-3/	05:35
GAN8001	Bad build-deps	05:35
brontide	same as always.... Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5)	05:36
* GAN8001 is not familiar enough with the autobuilder to be more accurate or specific.		05:37
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brontide	The only major change was adding the icon... I'll double check it's the right syntax	05:38
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GAN8001	brontide, the other answer could, of course, just be autobuilder instability.	05:45
brontide	in that case do I just resubmit after incrementing the build	05:48
GAN8001	Yeah, that'd be one option.	05:49
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sin18	does anyone know when libxpm4 would be available for diablo (i cannot install dosbox on nokia n800 without this library)	05:53
GAN8001	These don't work? . . . http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/libx/libxpm/	05:55
Mek	it is available... (altough it might be in extras or extras-devel... not sure about that)	05:55
sin18	i was looking up on http://pupnik.de/xkbd.html (dosbox link) but i 'll try from repository	05:58
sin18	GAN8001 , Mek : even from the repository it gives the same error "unable to install libxpm4 incompatible application package"	06:06
GAN8001	apt-get	06:08
GAN8001	or dpkg -i	06:08
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rm_800	anyone seen anything about replacing or expanding the internal memory in the n810? >_>	06:14
GAN8001	goodluckwiththat	06:15
GAN8001	You'd need equipment, skills and the source to a replacement chip	06:15
GAN8001	notgonnahappen	06:15
rm_800	lol	06:15
rm_800	yeah, but some people are remarkably dedicated	06:16
brontide	last I checked those dedicated people are probably working on newer hardware :-P	06:17
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AFBN810	hello	06:24
sin18	GAN8001 : while Application Manager didnt allow me to install it ... dpkg -i worked ... thanks.	06:24
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fUD	brontide: k	06:29
rm_800	becomeroot is the new package right?	06:30
GAN8001	No	06:31
GAN8001	~rootsh	06:31
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infobot	from memory, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/	06:31
GAN8001	The one in Extras.	06:31
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Mek	CMake Error at kdecore/kconfig_compiler/CMakeLists.txt:11 (kde4_add_executable):	06:32
Mek	damn, stupid middle-click :P	06:32
kulve	robink: not really. The metalayer crawler doesn't find oggs anymore :/	06:35
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rm_800	jott: yo?	06:44
Mek	bah, the latest qt packages in extras-devel still don't have ssl support :(	06:45
GAN8001	andre____, "Maemo.org" ?!	06:46
GAN8001	For shame! For shame!	06:46
GAN8001	Also, andre____, why haven't you installed Advanced Backlight yet, hmmm?	06:49
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rm_800	lol ga	06:51
GAN8001	See the guilt! https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=914&action=view	06:52
rm_800	lol so many brightness and volume icons... like a whole 2. wtf :P	06:55
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brontide	grumble grumble grumble... is there any way to find out more information as to why the build failed	06:55
GAN8001	Not really. :\	06:56
GAN8001	Um, I'd poke -developers, maybe	06:56
GAN8001	Ed Bartosh is the man you're after	06:56
GAN8001	Normally X-Fade's about to prod at it	06:56
GAN8001	but he's not back until the 6th.	06:56
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Mek	brontide: I think "dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in control file debian/control at line 43: line with unknown format (not field-colon-value)" is your problem...	07:01
brontide	Mek: thanks!	07:04
brontide	.me goes lookin	07:04
brontide	Hmmm... there is no line 43, and the previous block is the icon... which according to the wiki is formatted correctly....	07:07
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moontiger	brontide, take out the icon and try again :)	07:08
Mek	I think there is a trailing space on line 43	07:08
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robink	kulve: Even with the lightmediascanner-ogg module installed?	07:09
Mek	(and removing that trailing space makes dpkg-checkbuilddeps no longer complain)	07:09
brontide	[0:-1] to the rescue	07:10
robink	kulve: It's missing from diablo-extras.	07:10
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kulve	robink: metalayercrawler and lightmediascanner-ogg are two separate things	07:11
kulve	and lightmediascanner-ogg is provided by the canola team, not me..	07:11
robink	kulve: Oh! I didn't even know about metacrawler.	07:11
kulve	lightmediascanner is used only by canola	07:11
robink	kulve: Gotcha.	07:12
robink	Well, I guess I can wait for support in Diablo-extras.	07:12
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kulve	are you using canola or the built-in player?	07:13
robink	kulve: Builtin, I believe (I thought that was Canola)	07:13
kulve	http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/	07:14
kulve	there's screenshot about canola	07:14
kulve	ja I don't know how to get oggs played with the built-in player	07:15
kulve	s,ja,and,	07:15
robink	I can play oggs, just not index them.	07:18
* brontide needs sleep... made the change and forgot to save it		07:18
kulve	yeah, that's the problem. In chinook tha indexing worked, but not in diablo anymore	07:18
brontide	doh	07:18
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brontide	All hail Mek	07:24
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sin18	what is the difference between ruby1.8 and ruby1.8-maemo and where i can find the latter ? it doesnt seem to be in repository	07:24
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robink	Canola2 doesn't seem to index Ogg files.	07:28
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robink	I guess I have to wait for lightmediascanner-ogg support in Diablo again...	07:33
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robink	Or does Canola2 use metacrawler?	07:34
robink	Sorry, metalayercrawler.	07:35
robink	Looks like lightmediascanner...	07:37
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emma	Hey could this run on a nokia n800 -- http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile	08:52
XTL	emma: I think in theory, yes. Can't recall if there was a project for that	08:53
XTL	There's the same problems that any non-Nokia port would have, of course.	08:53
emma	but is that ubuntu mid not the same type of thing as maemo?	08:53
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XTL	Not really. But of course in some sense it kind of is.	08:54
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GAN800	ubuntu mobile is for x86	09:02
GAN800	Clutter is accelerated.	09:02
GAN800	They all use Hildon.	09:03
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rm_you	GAN800: yes, yes, what?	09:05
GAN800	Huh?	09:12
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eichi	is there a way to sync a folder over bluetooth with maemo? gsync doenst accept this kind of connection	09:22
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Stskeeps	emma: ubuntu can run on n800 but the armel port isn't complete so it's not that fun to play with	09:44
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emma	what's armel?	09:47
emma	is that the onscreen keyboard?	09:47
timelyx	the debian name for the cpu + abi used by nokia tablets since 2006	09:47
timelyx	but you could probably read about it in wikipedia	09:48
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keesj	hi5	10:51
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:27
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hrw	morning	11:31
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korgoth	hello :)	12:05
Italodance	:D	12:05
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korgoth	anyone found a way to switch between 12 and 24 hour formatting? :-/	12:09
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LuCk1	hi all, does any one know a usb/bluetooth UMTS Devices for the N810?	12:18
LuCk1	i did found this devices: http://www.naviman24.de/E-PlusBASE-UMTS-USB-Stick-E169__i_010B-PE-SM.html but dont know who it works with maeomo	12:20
LuCk1	s/maeomo/maemo/	12:20
infobot	LuCk1 meant: i did found this devices: http://www.naviman24.de/E-PlusBASE-UMTS-USB-Stick-E169__i_010B-PE-SM.html but dont know who it works with maemo	12:20
* aquatix plays it safe and just hooks up his phone with his n810 over bluetooth		12:23
crashanddie	LuCk1, I never heard of any device that worked, never looked at those devices though. But do a background check first, does it work on Linux ? If it does, there might be a way to implement it (especially if it runs on Debian :D)	12:24
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LuCk1	crashanddie: i did found a german blog post which says it works on xandroas(debian) :-) http://www.einfach-eee.de/tutorials/linux/umts-mit-usb-modem-von-base-e-plus/	12:29
LuCk1	aquatix: are there big umts performance differences between the different devices?	12:30
qwerty12	crashanddie: hey, the osso-xterm code has code that calls the browser with a url internally without a script. just thought it would be useful :)	12:31
qwerty12	using dbus	12:31
crashanddie	oh, does it?	12:31
crashanddie	thanks Q, I'll look into it	12:32
qwerty12	np :)	12:32
* qwerty12 was looking at the code to bring back some functions they removed >.<		12:32
yacoob	korgoth, you need to change LC_CTIME for that.	12:33
yacoob	korgoth, that is, change it in one of the local files, no UI control for that.	12:33
yacoob	bleh, LC_TIME of course	12:34
korgoth	tnx yacoob, ill give it a try :-)	12:35
yacoob	and the file is /etc/osso-af-init/locale	12:35
yacoob	"suggested" value is LC_TIME=fi_FI - that also affects date settings.	12:36
yacoob	but you might want to experiment with that	12:36
yacoob	http://www.vinc17.org/maemo/index.en.html has a nice idea how to choose the best	12:36
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Italodance	some knows cool themes for os2008?	14:38
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eichi	can i use a external SD card, which is longer then a normal one, without closeing the slot?	14:41
eichi	to "fake" the closed slot	14:41
aquatix	not sure, i think closing the slot triggers an event	14:42
eichi	yes it does, but you can trigger things mechanicaly or manuel to kernel like "echo "1" /proc/what/ever	14:42
eichi	>	14:43
qwerty12_N800	yeah. you could modify the ke-recv source to not listen to the slot closed event	14:43
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lcuk	or shove a matchstick in so it still gets it	14:44
lcuk	crashanddie, i replaced my menus :)	14:45
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Mikho	would anyone have any idea where to start looking for bug when my program aborts with malloc memory corruption upon performing: _eventbuffer = new EventBuffer();	14:56
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qwerty12_N800	Is prompt a command that is internal to bash?	14:56
Mikho	it doesn't even get to the constructor...	14:56
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lcuk	mikho, generally malloc fails cos it has no memory	14:58
lcuk	check you have enough ram to do what you wanna do	14:58
Mikho	shouldnt it throw an exception or something?	14:59
lcuk	i dunno, what does the code do - and is it using c syntax malloc internally to the constructor?	15:00
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lcuk	check the code inside the constructor(s) and see which are doing what	15:00
Mikho	oh... it got fixed when i did a make clean before compiling	15:00
Mikho	I wonder what the problem was	15:00
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lcuk	you changed things in different source files and the size of the structs changed	15:02
lcuk	your makerules arent adapting to changes in headers	15:02
Mikho	so, why didnt it detect the change and recompile?	15:02
Mikho	it has adapted so far	15:02
lcuk	(though its more finicky to setup like that, for small projects if you change the size of memory structures do a make clean	15:02
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Mikho	I wonder if it just compares file sizes when searching for changes...	15:03
lcuk	i dont know your makefile layout, but most just check for the source file related to the .o file, but thats not containing all places where that data is used	15:03
Mikho	hmm	15:03
lcuk	no, its date based usually	15:03
Mikho	this is somewhat weird	15:03
lcuk	you can build your makefile so that changes in a header file can cause recompilation of all related source files	15:04
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lcuk	but its not as simple to do because you need to know the dependency chain	15:04
Mikho	I'm using autotools, and usually it compiles nearly everything again when I change the header files	15:04
Mikho	hmm... how does it find out the dependencies?	15:05
lcuk	then go and look at your make rules	15:05
lcuk	it doesnt automatically, there might be a command to find it, but i dont see it as worth it for most projects	15:05
Mikho	I see	15:06
lcuk	ive just got into the habit of doing a make clean when i change the members of a structure	15:06
Mikho	oh well, it works for now. I'll just have to remember to make clean whenever I get weird errors	15:06
lcuk	heh yer	15:06
Mikho	thanks for advice	15:06
lcuk	np	15:07
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crashanddie	lcuk, just got called up, they're arranging an interview with project lead in London this week, if I pass this one, I have an interview with company hot-shot next week	15:08
lcuk	\o/ w0000tness	15:08
lcuk	dont tell him about your cheese fascination	15:09
lcuk	you dont want to put them off	15:09
crashanddie	"Why didn't you get the job" "I like sausages" "Well, that's not a problem, I love sausages too" "Oh really, do you wanna come by and have a look at my collection?"	15:10
lcuk	heh lol	15:10
lcuk	have you seen my shineny menus yet?	15:10
crashanddie	nay	15:10
lcuk	http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T7SViwZwqoc	15:10
crashanddie	haha	15:10
crashanddie	oh wow	15:11
crashanddie	oh you cock, I love it	15:11
lcuk	heheh ;) now, you see the tiny nobble on the top right of each menu item?	15:12
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crashanddie	yeh	15:13
lcuk	well that opens up the sketch editor :) set to context for the specific menu item	15:14
crashanddie	ooooh	15:14
crashanddie	nice	15:14
lcuk	yer, im starting to feel a bit more confident about the tiles and how they need to be used - but now things ive been planning are certainly coming into place	15:16
crashanddie	good	15:17
aquatix	<3 Test Area	15:18
lcuk	heh aquatix :) it changes daily	15:18
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lcuk	but i wont say all the things that have been in there ;)	15:18
aquatix	:)	15:19
aquatix	well, i love that dragging-around of images in that movie	15:19
aquatix	lcuk: can i download a new version somewhere?	15:19
lcuk	it annoyed me because theres about 5 images which are massive (sat images)	15:19
aquatix	ah	15:20
lcuk	no sorry aquatix you will have to wait	15:20
yacoob	lcuk, is that a demo of anything specific, or just interface ideas?	15:20
crashanddie	"And you will have to talk to people: clean up your language; let's talk about perimeter defence. Don't use any IT language. At all. The word firewall becomes a swearword. I know you hate these soul-less bastards, they don't like you very much either"	15:20
aquatix	lcuk: kk	15:20
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aquatix	crashanddie: ? :)	15:20
yacoob	if it's the latter, I have an idea of a feature. "Lassoing" few items might be useful.	15:20
aquatix	lcuk: just wondering whether i could mess about with your eyecandy app :)	15:21
lcuk	yacoob, ive had to start from scratch with things, but now i have a fast book reader and the core bits for building an interface i can finally build a file selection/listview thingy and actually get a proper book reader out of the way	15:21
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jott	lcuk: in the end i see you writing your own books, so you have something to read :>	15:22
lcuk	yacoob, anything is quite possible with it - the physics thing will most likely end up as a dynamic tagcloud for instance	15:22
lcuk	nahhh jott	15:23
crashanddie	lcuk, TRAITOR	15:23
crashanddie	tagcloud is my thing	15:23
crashanddie	you don't touch it, bitch	15:23
crashanddie	:D	15:23
lcuk	physics view is already in the existing released version :)	15:23
lcuk	it just did it for sketches	15:23
lcuk	and its not in the youtube video	15:23
lcuk	and crashanddie the tags im talking about will be for localised content	15:24
lcuk	not xml stuff from a website :P	15:24
crashanddie	lcuk, don't worry, I'm just kidding :)	15:24
lcuk	unless of course its from liqserver...	15:24
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crashanddie	lcuk, I might have a small module that creates a list of tags based on recurrent words in .txt files :P	15:25
* lcuk . o O ( today maemo, tomorrow, the world! )		15:25
jott	i'm still waiting for the announcement of liqbacon.	15:25
lcuk	crash, ive got alist tree which does something out-fudging-standing which you lot havent seen yet (cos i couldnt build a ui for it)	15:25
lcuk	:D:D:D liqbacon	15:26
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* lcuk puts it in		15:26
crashanddie	actually, I'm pretty sure I could build an electronic device to cook bacon	15:26
yacoob	keyword spotted bacon? where?	15:26
lcuk	what should it do? be like the "i am rich" but show a rasher and call it "i am hungry"	15:27
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crashanddie	this is actually a pretty awesome idea guys	15:27
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lcuk	:D	15:27
lcuk	best bacon source>>>> http://www.reddit.com/r/bacon	15:27
yacoob	have device emit a small radius but strong EMP pulse. Boils water, cooks bacon.	15:27
crashanddie	thermal camera, electric heater, and then build some mechanical thing to turn it over	15:28
lcuk	we had some lovely thick cut bacon yesterday	15:28
jott	lcuk: something like flashing "bring me bacon" "i am hungry" so you could use it in a restaurant.	15:28
jott	just hold up your tablet and get some bacon then ;)	15:28
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lcuk	:D heh jott, we could use it in berlin :D	15:28
crashanddie	and have a button "Yes sir" on it	15:28
lcuk	excellent ill get on with that tonight ;)	15:28
crashanddie	if no one hits the button for 30s, start playing the sound of a pig	15:29
lcuk	jott, do you think the projector can project the smell of cooking bacon?	15:29
crashanddie	I'm leaving now	15:29
jott	lcuk: we might have to cheat a bit and bring some real bacon with us ;>	15:29
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crashanddie	I'm getting depressed each time I hear the word berlin these days	15:29
lcuk	actually, wheres lardman, he normally pings with his bacon keyword	15:29
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crashanddie	"lard" is a synonym for bacon, right ?	15:30
jott	lcuk: probably already gone out to get some bacon ;)	15:30
lcuk	customs: "excuse me sir, have you got any weapons, bombs, or bacon?"	15:30
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lcuk	im gonna go and have a cig (no, im not making smoked bacon)	15:30
lcuk	ill see you lot later on :)	15:30
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Italodance	who's Michael Arrington ?	16:29
Italodance	http://www.tablet-guru.com/2008/07/21/michael-arrington-wants-an-internet-tablet/	16:29
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aquatix	heh	16:32
Italodance	?	16:34
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aquatix	Italodance: funny story	16:35
Italodance	plz tell me? :) ?	16:35
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aquatix	Italodance: quite interesting that those people all yell `that's a cool idea', but don't know about the NIT's	16:36
aquatix	well, that link you posted	16:36
Italodance	hehe	16:36
Italodance	btw is there a screenshot for NuvoClear2 theme?	16:36
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Italodance	IT hasn't no more theme :(	16:38
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aquatix	Italodance: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=166480&postcount=401 ?	16:41
GAN800	lcuk, fyi, the door close event is magnetic, so a matchstick wont do anything.	16:42
Italodance	tnx	16:42
* aquatix should create a nice wallpaper		16:44
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MangoFusion	lack of contrast between the icons and the wallpaper though	16:50
aquatix	MangoFusion: myeah, but that depends on the wallpaper	16:53
aquatix	but the icons in the top row lack contrast indeed	16:54
aquatix	default theme is better in that regard	16:54
RST38h	aquatix: What city is it?	16:54
aquatix	RST38h: the link says monaco	16:55
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aquatix	RST38h: i only found this post with google myself, so i don't know any details either :)	16:55
RST38h	ah	16:56
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RST38h	...a recent move in the UK has council's relying on info from "Citizen Snoopers" to report the transgressions of their neighbors...	16:58
RST38h	lovely	16:58
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RST38h	why is UK so preoccupied with surveillance anyway? too much crime?	16:59
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GAN800	Because the UK sucks ass. :P	16:59
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RST38h	well, that's granted, but really, from the common sense point of view?	17:00
GAN800	Same reason the US is obssessed with its security theater?	17:01
GAN800	Most people are just plain stupid.	17:01
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RST38h	no,no, I can tell with 100% precision why us is obsessed with security theater	17:05
florian	RST38h: heh... this sounds like a historic news from the GDR ;)	17:05
Veggen	RST38h: UK is obsessed because they want to be good buddies with US?	17:05
RST38h	That's because the whole hierarchy of officials have to report up the chain what they are doing to "insure security of the homeland"	17:06
RST38h	And if they don't report, they get their asses whipped. It is exactly the same as in old good USSR	17:06
aquatix	. o O {Wasn't that done in the USSR too?}	17:06
aquatix	lol	17:06
aquatix	RST38h: i was typing too slowly :)	17:07
Veggen	In a perverted sense, this actually helps on security.	17:07
RST38h	aquatix: That is exactly why I recognize it	17:07
Veggen	Because as long as people stay frightened, the terrorists doesn't have to actually do anything.	17:07
aquatix	Veggen: yeah, but i don't think it helps society in general	17:07
aquatix	Veggen: heh, yeah	17:07
Veggen	They just have to show that they still are willing to do it.	17:07
aquatix	terrorise your own country, put the terrorists out of a job	17:07
RST38h	Veggen: It does not, really - does not target real problems and screws with people's brains indirectly leading to panic	17:08
RST38h	But with UK surveillance I do not understand at all. It does not seem to be related to terrorism threat. It does not seem to be made on US' request.	17:08
Veggen	RST38h: well, yes. But it makes real terrorism unnecessary :)	17:08
RST38h	It probably does not give those idiots in the office much to report up, because it is just more of the same thing	17:09
Veggen	RST38h: well...maybe the officials are out of "good measures" to improve security, but have to show they are doing something?	17:09
RST38h	Veggen: Hey, security or not, absolutely nothing beats unplanned demolition of a few skyscrapers in the middle of a workday	17:10
RST38h	Veggen: Yes, but they are doing the same thing - you can't successfully report doing the same thing every months	17:10
RST38h	Veggen: 'cause your bosses will consider it "lack of progress"	17:11
Veggen	RST38h: well. Face it, the real goal of terrorists is not to kill everyone. it's to make everyone afraid that they're gonna get killed.	17:11
aquatix	yeah	17:11
RST38h	Veggen: Stupid terrorists	17:11
RST38h	They do not yet understand the beauty of the KILL ALL PEOPLE idea! =)	17:11
aquatix	not all	17:12
aquatix	kill most	17:12
Veggen	Well. I happen to think that the war on terrorism in its current form can never be won.	17:12
aquatix	hm	17:12
RST38h	killing most is segregation.	17:12
aquatix	but kill all is more beautiful indeed	17:12
aquatix	back to scratch	17:12
Veggen	The only way to win it, is to take away their recruitment.	17:12
RST38h	Veggen: There is no war on terorirms	17:12
aquatix	`There is no war'	17:12
RST38h	Veggen: it is an oxymoron	17:12
Veggen	RST38h: of course.	17:12
RST38h	Oh, there is plenty of wars	17:12
* aquatix looks at his spoon		17:12
Veggen	And how to take away recruitment? Give people an alternative to being terrorists.	17:13
RST38h	Veggen: just kill off more people.	17:14
aquatix	give them ticking handgrenades?	17:14
Veggen	None of this will help. but you already know that.	17:14
RST38h	Actually, you want to give recruiters an alternative	17:14
RST38h	Not the recruited	17:14
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Veggen	What would help, is if Israel would stop already to build more settlements, for example.	17:14
Veggen	Yes, I do sympathize with israelians that just want peace too, but they can not expect it before they stop provoking the arab world.	17:15
Veggen	And Israel is a large part of it.	17:15
GAN800	woo, Quim's back!	17:15
RST38h	Believe me, based on Chechen war, building less settlements WOULD NOT help	17:15
Veggen	RST38h: Currently, I think it would. But alas, I haven't studied politics.	17:16
RST38h	'cause it doesn't do anything to reduce the pool of jobless, angsty, palestinian youth	17:16
GAN800	dneary, too!	17:16
Veggen	RST38h: well, it's a good first step.	17:16
RST38h	Now, placing these guys into militarized units and shipping them to some far away country to battle whatever other freaks are there...it would do the job	17:17
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RST38h	Alternatively, you can divide them into two camps, arm both, and let them kill each other.	17:18
RST38h	That is the British way	17:18
RST38h	or you can arm the baddest ones and let them kill the rest, while the rest will become guerillas (for a while, before extermination)	17:19
RST38h	That is the Russian way	17:19
GAN800	lardman, you gonna send in your nomination?	17:20
lardman	GAN800: ?	17:20
Veggen	RST38h: Well. This became too much politics. But the only way to stop it in the long run in an acceptable way, is to take away motivation to be recruited as terrorists, and jobs, ecomony, less settlements etc. are all part of that.	17:20
lardman	GAN800: Community council you mean?	17:20
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GAN800	Yes	17:20
GAN800	Running out of time and we don't have many nominations. . . .	17:21
lardman	yeah, I've been busy though, not sure that's quite what would be needed	17:21
GAN800	We've got an electionless council right now. :/ http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council/Candidate_declarations	17:21
riot	say, is the security-code application opensource? Because the one i have here in chinook.. um.. sucks major in several points	17:21
sp3000	GAN800, that's optimal, right? :)	17:22
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GAN800	sp3000, not if my picks aren't all on that list. :D	17:22
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lardman	when's the election anyway?	17:24
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GAN800	2 days. . . .	17:24
jeward	Until?	17:24
* lardman has been somewhat preoccupied scouting out wedding venues		17:24
GAN800	Nominations close in about 36 hours.	17:24
lardman	ok	17:24
jeward	Oh.	17:24
jeward	Has anyone got a way to read usenet news yet?	17:24
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aquatix	lardman: oh noes, you're going to join that group? :)	17:25
lardman	aquatix: yep :)	17:25
inz	jeward, I once compiled pan for maemo, but it was totally unusable	17:25
* aquatix gives up lardman		17:25
GAN800	Busy indeed. . . . :p	17:25
aquatix	lardman: well, can't blame ya ;)	17:25
jeward	inz: I've heard that.	17:25
RST38h	Veggen: Not gonna happen, alas	17:25
lardman	well, once I've done that I should have some free time again	17:25
jeward	inz: I don't evencare about offline ability.	17:26
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jeward	inz: Do you know how to read news with claws?	17:26
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inz	jeward, nope, sorry	17:26
RST38h	lardman: Once you join that group, you will not have any free time	17:26
sp3000	sounds like cat territory	17:26
lardman	RST38h: lol	17:26
Veggen	RST38h: unfortunately, I'm afraid you're right, thus the world has no chance to create peace in the middle east.	17:27
aquatix	jeward: just add a news server as news account?	17:27
jeward	aquatix: Let me try that, one sec.	17:28
Veggen	because it's quite linked, all of this. And it's not at all difficult for terrorist groups to recruit people who have no life to speak of to lose anyways.	17:29
aquatix	jeward: otherwise, you might want to check Pan: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-pan	17:30
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aquatix	crap	17:31
aquatix	jeward: disregard that	17:31
aquatix	that's not the pan i thought it was ;)	17:31
jeward	aquatix: I already tried that. :)	17:31
aquatix	ah, k	17:31
jeward	aquatix: I can'r figure out how to add an account other than pop3.	17:32
aquatix	jeward: sec, let me get my tablet	17:32
jeward	aquatix: The add account dialogue is... not useful.	17:32
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aquatix	jeward: click the Basic item there	17:33
aquatix	jeward: then choose News (nntp) for Protocol	17:33
jeward	Oh, okay, thanks!	17:34
timeless	!seen andre	17:34
aquatix	jeward: that dialogue is a tad weird, but the items are selectable :)	17:34
timeless	could someone here please help me?	17:34
aquatix	if you know that, you can config everythnig	17:34
GAN800	~seen andre____	17:34
timeless	gan: bug 3590, c2	17:34
infobot	andre____ <n=andre@f053154208.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9d 10h 37m 35s ago, saying: 'w'.	17:34
timeless	i don't speak commenter's language	17:34
timeless	is it possible to translate that into English?	17:34
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aquatix	timeless: is it german?	17:35
* aquatix looks		17:35
timeless	i think it's chinese	17:35
aquatix	eh	17:35
aquatix	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3590 right?	17:35
GAN800	lol	17:35
timeless	yes	17:35
* aquatix only sees english comments		17:35
timeless	aquatix: be careful, half the time i'm asking for help, there's a trap	17:35
timeless	this is one of those cases	17:35
timeless	c1 and c2 are not English	17:36
GAN800	@plenware is hilarious. I wonder if those guys are getting paid for that.	17:36
aquatix	a	17:36
aquatix	ah	17:36
aquatix	timeless: just read the file and close it, duh ;)	17:36
timeless	(the other half of the time, my questions really are as simple to answer as they seem)	17:36
timeless	aquatix: what file?	17:36
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andre__	err. timeless? i'm around it seems :-P	17:36
aquatix	a file	17:36
GAN800	andre__, "Maemo.org"?!	17:37
aquatix	timeless: maybe they mean that you should close file handles after using them?	17:37
andre__	GAN800, context! we need context! :-P	17:37
jeward	aquatix: Got it configured... any idea how o subscribe to a newsgroup... or browse available groups?	17:38
aquatix	jeward: maybe just browse them?	17:38
GAN800	Some Bugzilla comment you made.	17:38
jeward	aquatix: I would if I could figure out how...	17:38
aquatix	jeward: i don't use claws-mail as nntp client myself and don't have internet atm	17:38
aquatix	oh	17:38
aquatix	sec	17:38
andre__	GAN800, ah, "some". yeah, i remember. ;-) well, happens...	17:39
GAN800	Also, andre__, install this: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/advanced-backlight/	17:39
andre__	why?	17:40
andre__	i don't care about 200 different optiond for backlight. i'm fine with it.	17:41
GAN800	To save statusbar space and because it's awesome. :P	17:41
wnd	timeless, I didn't look at actual source for gnomevfs, but I think you need to fail harder if return value doesn't match EOF or OK. afterall, gnome-vfs-result.h also defines GNOME_VFS_ERROR_TOO_MANY_OPEN_FILES.	17:41
GAN800	Yes, but your statusbar is a little full. :p	17:41
andre__	i got enough statusbar space for everybody. no, not really :)	17:41
timeless	wnd: sadly my xref is down again	17:42
GAN800	OK, because it's opensource and Nokia's applets aren't. ;)	17:42
Jaffa	GAN800: the major disadvantage to four of us standing is only one of us loses...	17:42
andre__	GAN800, heh... i don't care that much about it :)	17:42
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GAN800	OK, suit yourself, continue suffering with crappy statusbar applets.	17:43
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lcuk	did all the nokia guys return on the same day?	17:43
timeless	i was in italy for the middle of last week	17:44
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timeless	but most vacations end by a certain time	17:44
timeless	my summer vacation will be in october, because i'm not a european	17:44
Veggen	timeless: Italy? Where?	17:44
timeless	Torino	17:44
timeless	(business trip, need to file expense claims...)	17:44
Veggen	ah. Hmm, that's one of the places I haven't been yet :)	17:44
lcuk	cool, just looks like when a closet couple return to work in a line trying not to look conspicuous	17:45
aquatix	summer vacation? what summer vacation?	17:45
lcuk	good trips?	17:45
* aquatix looks overworked		17:45
crashanddie	aquatix, how could you possibly be overworked ?	17:45
timeless	aquatix: it's a hypothetical thing that i'll do in a month	17:45
timeless	i haven't done it yet	17:45
lardman	GAN800: Right, I've added some blurb ;)	17:45
timeless	lcuk: well, al italia lost my luggage both ways	17:45
Veggen	timeless: I have two weeks scheduled vacation in october that's getting less and less possible, too.	17:45
lcuk	hi there lardster, i thought your alert would be binging earlier	17:45
Veggen	lcuk: Via Amsterdam?	17:46
timeless	the first taxi driver demanded more cash than i had and wanted to hold me ransom	17:46
lcuk	timeless, omg, thats like everyone losing maemo.org ;)	17:46
GAN800	lardman, be sure to announce on -community, too.	17:46
timeless	the atm i visited refused to extend me a line of credit for 70eur	17:46
timeless	because i had maxed out my visa	17:46
lcuk	timeless, did you get it all back or is it still gone?	17:46
lardman	GAN800: is that a ml?	17:46
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crashanddie	lardman, yeah	17:46
Veggen	lcuk: I think it's not Al Italia but the airport in Amsterdam. Because it's happened to Paris, too, via Amsterdam.	17:46
* lardman feels slightly out of it atm		17:46
lardman	crashanddie: thanks	17:46
timeless	the finnish visa card has a phone number on the reverse which isn't open outside of business hours	17:46
Veggen	(eh, timeless)	17:46
lcuk	lardman, have a bacon butty :)	17:47
timeless	heaven forbid you need to ask for help from your visa card issuer at night or on weekend	17:47
timeless	s	17:47
* Jaffa likes the fact that Thoughtfix is so optimistic that he thinks everyone at Nokia is so quiet cos they're working hard on something amazing. Now, I don't doubt that fremantle - when we see it - will be pretty damn cool compared with diablo, but a) it's holiday season; b) it ain't gonna cure world hunger		17:47
aquatix	crashanddie: shush ;)	17:47
Veggen	timeless: This summer, I got it back after only two days, though ;)	17:47
aquatix	crashanddie: let's pretend for a moment i'm working my ass off	17:47
Jaffa	lardman: https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-communityhttps://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community	17:47
Jaffa	lardman: and, just once, https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community	17:47
lcuk	jaffa, given enough pigs i could cure world hunger	17:47
lardman	Jaffa: yep got it thanks	17:47
lardman	lcuk: hear hear	17:47
timeless	oh, and forget trying to speak English and knowing American sizes when you're in a hurry to buy pants in Italy	17:47
Veggen	(to a place a little into the italian alps)	17:47
lcuk	well, for certain groups anyway	17:47
timeless	at least the service was friendly and they tried to help	17:48
crashanddie	aquatix, ok, you have till 1600 GMT, after that you're doing nothing again, deal	17:48
timeless	sadly, that didn't work	17:48
crashanddie	?	17:48
timeless	(all i wanted was a pair of 32x34 kakis)	17:48
aquatix	crashanddie: that's in 2 hours?	17:48
aquatix	erm, 1 hour	17:48
crashanddie	aquatix, 12 minutes	17:48
lcuk	timeless, with no money for a few more hours you would have lost weight and couldv got the cheaper smaller pants :)	17:48
lardman	that list has been going for ages, first I've heard of it (and remembered anyway)	17:48
lcuk	mastercard were helping you	17:48
timeless	veggen: hrm, yeah i lost my luggage in ams technically	17:48
jeward	Anyone know how to read usenet news with claws?	17:48
timeless	but i've flown through ams a bunch of times	17:48
Veggen	timeless: That happens a lot in Ams.	17:49
timeless	(using klm)	17:49
aquatix	crashanddie: oh, i thought i was living at gmt+2	17:49
wnd	and forget it when you want to send a post card in Italy ;-)	17:49
aquatix	or does gmt have dst too :)	17:49
lcuk	i technically had no problem through amsterdam last time	17:49
Veggen	timeless: So I wouldn't blame Al Italia here, I think.	17:49
timeless	i've also lost my luggage both ways flying through paris (de gaul)	17:49
crashanddie	aquatix, of course we do :)	17:49
timeless	(cdg)	17:49
aquatix	crashanddie: well, i'm confused with utc then :)	17:49
lcuk	lardman >> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T7SViwZwqoc :)	17:49
GAN800	lardman, it was midgard2maemo	17:49
crashanddie	aquatix, GMT = UTC + DST	17:49
* lcuk goes again		17:49
aquatix	crashanddie: i see :)	17:49
lardman	GAN800: ah, ok	17:49
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Veggen	timeless: Actually, my track-record through Ams is about 50/50 :)	17:50
aquatix	crashanddie: well, as government worker, i agree with the deal ;)	17:50
timeless	veggen: ok...	17:50
Veggen	timeless: Half the plane-trips, it goes ok, half it gets delayed.	17:50
* aquatix never flies through ams, but from and to		17:50
timeless	maybe i should keep score	17:50
timeless	aquatix: speaking of to/from	17:50
Veggen	timeless: but I haven't travelled that may times through Ams.	17:50
lardman	lol @ bellicose comments to bug #2878	17:50
timeless	the baggage delivery guy here in HEL remembered me from the last time he delivered a bag	17:50
aquatix	timeless: lol	17:50
timeless	i told him i'm flying next weekend...	17:51
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crashanddie	aquatix, "My dad's the fastest man in the world, he's an F1 driver, he finishes work at 4 and he's home at 4:10" "Well my Daddy's the fastest dad in the world, he finishes work at 6 and he's home at 4. He works in public service"	17:51
timeless	so we'll see eachother shortly after :) he suggested an apt	17:51
aquatix	crashanddie: ghehehe	17:51
timeless	lol	17:51
aquatix	lardman: bellicose?	17:52
crashanddie	anyway, back to watching hope keynotes	17:53
GAN800	The GPS and the OGG bug really bring out the disgruntled customers.	17:53
lardman	talking about lawsuits, etc	17:53
derf	Must be from the US.	17:54
lardman	:)	17:54
GAN800	s/customers/idiots/	17:54
infobot	GAN800 meant: The GPS and the OGG bug really bring out the disgruntled idiots.	17:54
lardman	derf: I was back to making some progress on Tremor, been slightly busy for the past few weeks though	17:54
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derf	lardman: Is that why progress is past-tense?	17:55
lardman	derf: converted to built-in malloc, need to debug the byte reading code though	17:55
lardman	derf: well it's stalled temporarily, again, but I do have a second wind	17:55
derf	I've been making some progress on the QR-code stuff.	17:55
lardman	cool	17:55
timeless	aquatix: lardman was showing off his vocabulary	17:55
derf	I can now successfully detect lots of codes that both the Java package and zxing cannot.	17:56
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timeless	qr?	17:56
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derf	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_Code	17:56
lardman	timeless, aquatix, I did have to check if it had double-L though ;)	17:56
lardman	derf: nice :)	17:56
aquatix	timeless: oh, it's a word :) i thought it was a nick	17:56
aquatix	lardman: :)	17:56
derf	All I need to do is figure out the most efficient way to search for the alignment patterns, and the rest should be easy.	17:57
lardman	famous last words ;)	17:57
derf	I already did the hard work of fixing the RS decoder.	17:57
lardman	I need to look at the pdf code, but it's not going to happen before Berlin that's for use	17:58
AFBN810	hey cabthe vncviewer for maemo connect to any kind of vnc server? Can't get it to connect to my uvnc server	17:58
lardman	s/use/sure	17:58
aquatix	just align the warp deflector with the force field and everything should be set	17:58
yacoob	Damn. I've been rickrolled by my own itunes.	17:58
aquatix	yacoob: lol	17:58
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MangoFusion	yacoob: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2b1D5w82yU ?	18:01
yacoob	not clicking!	18:01
MangoFusion	aww, cmon. It's a top secret video of iTunes on maemo. yes.	18:01
MangoFusion	no i lie. it is in fact accelerated opengl running on an IT	18:02
MangoFusion	seriously	18:03
lardman	Nice, katix-efis already connects to x-plane	18:03
MangoFusion	>:)	18:03
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lardman	why am I watching Rick Astley?	18:03
lardman	ah, I now understand what rickrolling is	18:04
MangoFusion	is it rick astley. or is it rick astley running on an IT?	18:05
MangoFusion	bwhahaha	18:05
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* lardman crosses MangoFusion off the "feed the world with bacon sandwiches" list ;p		18:07
* timeless sighs		18:09
timeless	the agps bug is kinda interesting	18:09
timeless	if i wanted to learn all about agps	18:10
lardman	I think it just comes down to poor sensitivity of the chipset, or some firmware issues, neither of which we can fix	18:10
timeless	i don't think i'm allowed to think :)	18:10
lardman	would be good to see some more debugging output from the chipset to work out what's going on though	18:10
lardman	timeless: :)	18:10
timeless	andre__: omigosh	18:16
timeless	that's a lot of votes	18:16
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timeless	note to self: do not touch bug :)	18:16
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andre__	timeless, currently having private mail getting people into publicly commenting on the plans... sigh	18:18
lardman	in case you get sucked into the impending lawsuit hey? ;)	18:18
Jaffa	andre__: you mean Nokia don't lurge from one bug ridden feature to another?! It's planned that way? ;-)	18:19
Jaffa	* Not suggesting all features are buggy, just some people are disgruntled	18:19
andre__	haha	18:19
andre__	reminds me of the "do it, if YOU want to get sued" answer i received one week ago :)	18:20
GAN800	Do it! It's not everyday you get the opportunity to be sued. ;)	18:20
andre__	hmm... in the past i prefered to have it the other way round...	18:21
lcuk	lardman, a much better youtube link :) not that astley bloke :) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T7SViwZwqoc and fyi, i am having a "i am hungry" module inside liqbase :)	18:23
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lardman	lcuk: nice	18:24
lcuk	indeedy, physics works with image scaling :D	18:25
* lcuk thought he would need the IVA for that		18:25
lardman	now just a few gestures to stack things hey? ;)	18:25
lcuk	ha, no i dont need to actually use that one for anything other than testing if things work	18:26
lardman	this yours too? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mWViPc17rnA&feature=related	18:26
lardman	:D	18:26
lardman	probably not overly related then	18:26
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* lardman doesn't know for sure that lcuk doesn't have a Lamborghini of course		18:27
lcuk	lol no - but eldest was so carried away yesterday by a chain of sports cars he rode into the side of a moving car! thankfully hes ok but its his warning for concentrating on his bike	18:27
lardman	:)	18:28
lcuk	(the driver had seen him and was stopping so it was more like hitting a wall for luke)	18:28
lardman	I'm offski, see you chaps tomorrow	18:28
lcuk	couldv been so much worse thou	18:28
lcuk	alrighty, cya later lardman	18:29
lardman	yeah, if he was going slightly quicker - nasty	18:29
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* johnx plays with alternate panel layouts in debian/n8x0		18:30
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johnx	~lart spammers for spamming my cell phone	18:34
* infobot forces spammers to use Outlook Express for spamming my cell phone		18:34
sp3000	from bad to perverse	18:36
sp3000	but, that'll teach them! :)	18:36
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johnx	yeah, nothing like having my phone vibrate in the middle of the night and wake me up only to find spam	18:37
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sp3000	agh, sqlalchemy is murdering me with this auto-correlation thing	18:39
* sp3000 flails about helplessly		18:39
sp3000	oh, oops, I win	18:41
sp3000	tres excellent	18:42
johnx	congratulations! what did you win?	18:42
sp3000	a working query	18:43
sp3000	or, a subquery that doesn't explode in a poof of confusion trying to correlate to the enclosing query that ...uh, has both participants doing ...something ..there already	18:44
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johnx	that doesn't sound as good as winning the lottery	18:44
johnx	I think I'll pass	18:44
sp3000	it's a kind of monkey-typewriter-shakespeare moment really	18:45
sp3000	since I havent' really quite figured it out :P	18:46
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johnx	I have those except it's monkey-keyboard-shatner	18:46
timeless	gan: i'm pretty sure i have the opportunity to be sued daily	18:47
timeless	or at least weekly	18:47
johnx	ah, the famous "cake or lawsuit?" question on fridays?	18:47
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GAN800	Yeah, well, that's you. The rest of us poor schmucks have to make due wih what we can get. ;)	18:50
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Andy80	hi all	18:53
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lardman_	I couldn't stay away	18:55
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sp3000	oh, heh, turns out I didn't win yet, I was looking at the wrong thing :D	18:55
sp3000	luckily the same principle applied	18:55
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sp3000	timeless: this is generalizing filter ui to all reports and letting you switch between reports/lists while keeping your query	18:57
timeless	yum	18:57
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lardman\|home	I really can't see what's wrong with the mono stream in dsp-sbc	19:12
lardman\|home	ah, unless I multiply the stream size by 2 without checking, hmm	19:12
lardman\|home	hmm, doesn't look like it	19:15
GAN8001	Do it right, lardman\|home. :P	19:16
lardman\|home	I did, still not sure what's wrong with it	19:16
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qwerty12	lardman\|home: meanwhile, give people who complain of this program a copy of sox :P	19:17
qwerty12	s/program/problem/	19:17
infobot	qwerty12 meant: lardman\|home: meanwhile, give people who complain of this problem a copy of sox :P	19:17
lardman\|home	qwerty12: yeah :)	19:17
lardman\|home	qwerty12: would be good to fix it though	19:17
GAN8001	milhouse, ping.	19:18
qwerty12	lardman\|home: yeah :)	19:18
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Khertan_n810	Hi !	19:20
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lardman\|home	hmm, bet it was a #pragma MUST_ITERATE(1)	19:22
* qwerty12 takes the time to learn ssh-agent :/		19:22
lardman\|home	nope, that pragma should be fine. Drat!	19:23
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Khertan_n810	Abiword is really nunstable	19:26
Khertan_n810	s/nunstable/unstable	19:26
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GAN8001	Yeah, it's pretty beta.	19:28
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Jaffa	infobot, seen megabyte405	19:44
Jaffa	!seen megabyte405	19:44
* Jaffa gives up		19:44
qwerty12	~seen megabyte405	19:44
infobot	megabyte405 <n=ryan@user-12l2bbd.cable.mindspring.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 48d 21h 9m 38s ago, saying: ':D I lack actual maemo programming experience, I just use and package'.	19:44
infobot	megabyte405 <n=ryan@user-12l2bbd.cable.mindspring.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 48d 21h 9m 39s ago, saying: ':D I lack actual maemo programming experience, I just use and package'.	19:44
_berto_	vagalume 0.7 is out, guys -> http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2008/09/01/vagalume-07-released/	19:47
qwerty12	_berto_: nice, thanks!	19:48
_berto_	i'm going to have a drink :) see you later	19:48
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Jaffa	qwerty12: ta	19:53
johnx	can we call it "pulling a nokia" when someone releases software, then runs away? :D	19:54
* konttori is just looking at hum-gtk		19:55
konttori	http://code.google.com/p/hum-gtk/	19:55
johnx	thanks for the release _berto_ :)	19:55
timeless	johnx: what do you call it when i write a package once, and then my server runs away? :)	19:55
* Stskeeps stretches		19:55
konttori	The code is amazingly simple as it's using tracker as the backend: http://hum-gtk.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/	19:55
konttori	just simply awesome to look at (recommended to take a peek at the code niceness)	19:56
johnx	timeless, hmm...maybe your server pulled a nokia on you?	19:56
* Stskeeps ponders what to work on tonight		19:57
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Khertan_n810	decision is made ... i keep a gtk ui for mCalendar	19:57
qwerty12	qwerty's N800 uptime is the best :> : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/N800_Uptime.htm	19:58
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Stskeeps	qwerty12: hehe, you reflash a lot? ;)	19:58
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sin18	any recommendations for an irc client for diablo (repository only show available for os2006, os2007)	19:58
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qwerty12	Stskeeps: So far I've survived but usually yes :D	19:58
timeless	sin18: epic running on a server	19:58
timeless	in a screen session	19:58
qwerty12	sin18: X-chat, it's in diablo extras-devel	19:58
timeless	using ssh from xterm on your n810	19:59
Khertan_n810	sin18: x-chat	19:59
Khertan_n810	but i don t like it	19:59
Khertan_n810	maybe i should do my own in python :)	19:59
sin18	Thanks.	19:59
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* Khertan_n810 hate sourceforge		20:02
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* konttori just published blog entry on the hum-gtk goodness: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/		20:08
* qwerty12 compiles a proper cron daemon >.<		20:09
johnx	qwerty12, look in mud builder :)	20:09
johnx	mud build cron	20:09
qwerty12	johnx: Thanks :). The one I've got at the moment isn't doing wonders for me >.<	20:09
johnx	I haven't used it recently, but if the one in mud doesn't work I'll take a look at it again	20:10
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qwerty12	Well, it downloaded but it chose to build a source package instead :). I'll dpkg-source it and dpkg-buildpackage :)	20:13
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johnx	hmm?	20:14
johnx	I'll have to test it I guess...	20:14
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Jaffa	qwerty12: mud should build both source & binary packages.	20:14
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qwerty12	Jaffa: I only got the source package, maybe something on my end is messed up. No problems though, brilliantly easy for me either way :)	20:15
johnx	it's also possible that one or more of my hacks has an adverse effect in diablo...	20:16
Jaffa	qwerty12: it's also possible that the build failed - I'm not entirely convinced at the moment that there aren't edge cases	20:16
Jaffa	Suffice to say, I've got 2 weeks to fix such issues and write a presentation and demo for the summi	20:17
Jaffa	+t	20:17
Khertan_n810	:)	20:18
Khertan_n810	i ve two week to finish mContacts, release a first version, release and finish the new version of mCalendar	20:19
Khertan_n810	write presentation	20:19
Khertan_n810	and maybe a new version of pygtkeditor	20:19
qwerty12	Thanks for the cron and mud-builder johnx and Jaffa. Bye.	20:19
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Khertan_n810	write a presentation for py2deb	20:19
Khertan_n810	for the summit :)	20:20
lardman\|home	bbl	20:20
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Jaffa	Khertan_n810: heh, I'm not going to offer to swap ;-)	20:21
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Khertan_n810	and also if i found time made a small explanation on how to write a applet in python with a prefs dialog	20:21
Khertan_n810	:)	20:21
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AFBN810	You guys are not going to belave this I'm at a subway and they set the password on there wireless internet the same as the networks name lol	20:23
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johnx	AFBN810, is it even supposed to be a public network?	20:23
AFBN810	if it was public why would it be locked	20:24
AFBN810	network name and pre-share key are subway4788	20:25
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Khertan_n810	classic !	20:25
AFBN810	I'm going to start trying this more often	20:25
Khertan_n810	so you live in usa ?	20:26
AFBN810	yeah	20:26
AFBN810	why is subway usa only?	20:26
Khertan_n810	:) centurytel was bought by verizon	20:26
Khertan_n810	:)	20:26
Khertan_n810	and is usa only	20:26
Khertan_n810	they don t have network else where	20:27
AFBN810	not sure prised this is a centrytel network they are big around here	20:27
AFBN810	didn't know verison had them now was that reveny?	20:28
AFBN810	recent	20:29
Khertan_n810	in fact i m wrong ... centurytel bought a part of verizon	20:29
Khertan_n810	:)	20:29
AFBN810	lol	20:29
Khertan_n810	2000 - 2002	20:29
AFBN810	ahh ok	20:29
johnx	verizon the landline company, not verizon the cell phone company though	20:29
AFBN810	cool	20:30
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AFBN810	I should go check some more subways to see if they are all setup this was lol	20:31
AFBN810	hey khertan_n810 how is ncontacts coming btw?	20:32
Khertan_n810	mcontacts ... it should be ready for the summit	20:32
Khertan_n810	at least the first beta version	20:32
Khertan_n810	but be carefull with open ap, in Paris some do this to get login and password from stupid user which don t use secure protocol	20:35
AFBN810	what about those of us with wives that wont let use go to sumit?	20:35
Khertan_n810	it ll be available for all of course	20:35
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lcuk	AFBN810, tell your wife you are going on a hunting trip	20:36
Khertan_n810	but change your wife :) i go to the summit	20:36
lcuk	or staying at a friends house	20:36
AFBN810	lol	20:36
Khertan_n810	mcontacts will be available one day before in the extras devel repository, as i ll not be able to push it to repository when i ll be at berlin	20:37
Khertan_n810	roaming data is too high	20:37
AFBN810	cool	20:37
aquatix	Khertan_n810: no wifi?	20:37
Khertan_n810	aquatix: i don t like use unknow ap	20:38
AFBN810	did you find some better icons then I used	20:38
lcuk	Khertan_n810, setup a vpn tunnel to your home machine	20:38
aquatix	Khertan_n810: fair enough; you could use a vpn tunnel or something though	20:38
lcuk	oh sorry, your home machine is n810	20:38
aquatix	lol	20:38
Khertan_n810	AFBN810: not sure yet, i ll work on it in a few hours when i ll be at home	20:38
aquatix	or at least ssl over http and such :)	20:39
AFBN810	cool	20:39
Khertan_n810	aquatix: ssl isn't secure	20:39
lcuk	Khertan_n810, when you are at the summit itself surely you could slurp from someones internet	20:39
aquatix	Khertan_n810: it is when you check the certificates	20:39
* lcuk wonders what the S is for		20:39
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aquatix	lcuk: session ;)	20:39
AFBN810	hey got a question while I'm here I got a uvnc server on my windows desktop will the vnc viewer maemo not work with it	20:40
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lcuk	AFBN810, i dont know about a specific extension to vnc, but standard vnc works a treat	20:40
lcuk	lol aquarius-	20:40
lcuk	lol aquatix	20:41
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lcuk	back after t	20:41
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alex_	I have a nokia 770. I installed IT2007 hacker edition on it and it works great most of the time... just a big sluggish. My biggest complaint is how often it seems to sometimes randomly reboot more often than not white some program is starting. Is This a common problem and should I downgrade?	22:06
timeless	is there an it2008he?	22:06
GAN8001	Do you have swap enabled?	22:06
GAN8001	OS2008HE exists.	22:06
GAN8001	But it's a touch more unstable than OS2007HE	22:07
alex_	ic	22:07
GAN8001	More feature-full and useful, but slower and less stable.	22:07
GAN8001	Integrated circuit?	22:07
alex_	I want speed and stability	22:07
alex_	integrated circuit ?	22:07
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GAN8001	The speed and stability is probably best found with OS2006	22:08
GAN8001	But, uh, the 770 kinda sucks in general.	22:08
GAN8001	If you REALLY want speed and stability, pick up a used N800.	22:08
timeless	'i see'	22:08
alex_	yeah but I got it for 70 bucks on ebay... really nice pdf reader :)	22:09
timeless	but please don't write two letter abbreviations	22:09
timeless	it really isn't worth it	22:09
timeless	if you want speed, you could consider buying a cheap n800	22:09
timeless	it's faster :)	22:09
timeless	and has more ram :)	22:09
alex_	how much are they going for these days	22:09
GAN8001	~$150	22:10
alex_	not bad	22:10
GAN8001	It's worlds better than the 770.	22:10
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alex_	I'll look into it... thanks for the advice :)	22:11
hung_andrew	hello all. I have got a question. Does Nokia Travel Charger AC-4, which came with Nokia N810 Internet Tablet, support 220V/50Hz or only 110V/60Hz. Will it work in Russia (220V/50Hz) If I buy in USA? Thanx in advance	22:11
RST38h	supports both	22:12
RST38h	will work in Russia.	22:12
AStorm	yes, it's dual-mode	22:12
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AStorm	in fact, I have AC-4e here in Poland	22:13
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hung_andrew	RST38h,AStorm thank you	22:13
hung_andrew	I am waiting my N810 from States... Thrilling	22:14
Stskeeps	hung_andrew: obviously you might need a plug converter but besides that it should be fine	22:14
Stskeeps	also ac-4 are dead cheap	22:14
hung_andrew	yeah. I see	22:14
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timeless	yeah, the chargers work fine	22:17
timeless	i've used old nokia chargers from the us here in europe w/o issue	22:17
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pupnik	anybody interested in browsers, but not an expert? Google made a comic about Google Chrome / Webkit and why they think it's rawsome. http://blogoscoped.com.nyud.net/google-chrome/	22:18
Proteous	rawrsome	22:18
timeless	pupnik: i think most of us could read /.	22:19
pupnik	i thought it was pretty keen	22:19
Proteous	this is also rawrsome if you like the mythbusters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKK933KK6Gg	22:19
AFBN810	can anyone suggest a good vnc server for windows	22:19
AStorm	lol	22:19
AStorm	web apps fail when the server or connection fails	22:19
AStorm	still far too often	22:19
Proteous	my computer fails when my computer fails too	22:20
AStorm	hehe	22:20
AStorm	but connection is lost too often	22:20
Proteous	if my internet connection fails I have little use for my browser	22:21
Proteous	I guess I can log into my router and keep hitting refresh	22:21
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johnx	google reader might be nice for a while if you had a backlog. so would google docs with a local cache	22:22
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Proteous	so would looking into a more stable net connection	22:23
Proteous	maybe some redundancy	22:23
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johnx	Proteous, think cell phone connection + train + tunnel :)	22:23
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johnx	redundancy at 90km/h that fits in my backpack sounds expensive :)	22:24
Stskeeps	johnx: how difficult would it be to adapt a2dp scripts to deblet btw?	22:24
Proteous	heh	22:24
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johnx	Stskeeps, they're totally not necessary for the most part	22:24
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RST38h	johnx: Long wire that you lasso onto a tree before entering the tunnel!	22:25
johnx	RST38h, I'll let you try that first O_o	22:25
lcuk	does linux have a problem with folder lengths and filenames (like old 8.3) ?	22:25
AStorm	no	22:25
qwerty12_N800	lcuk: hell no	22:25
Stskeeps	isn't there a PATHLEN or something?	22:26
lcuk	probably is, but thats not the same thing	22:26
lcuk	thanks though	22:26
johnx	and I think you can't have a / in the name	22:26
lcuk	pathlen is the entire longest path - you could still break that with 8.3	22:26
AStorm	4096 characters is a lot	22:27
AStorm	:>	22:27
lcuk	im actually building with preferences and knowledge of files :)	22:27
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t_s_o	hmm, google building a browser around webkit, called chrome. whats the chance of fremantle microb going webkit?	22:29
unixSnob	any belgians around -- who know a good way to get mobile broadband on an n800?	22:30
GAN8001	t_s_o, MicroB == Gecko	22:33
GAN8001	A "MicroB" WebKit is something that can't exist.	22:33
t_s_o	ah, i figured that microb was both the ui and the gecko engine combined	22:33
t_s_o	and that the ui was flexible enough to have engine swapped	22:34
GAN8001	Nope, just the engine.	22:34
GAN8001	Though most everybody calls the whole thing MicroB.	22:34
t_s_o	at least that was the impression i got when i toyed around with the gecko engine on my 770	22:34
GAN8001	EAL (Engine Abstraction Layer)	22:34
t_s_o	ah	22:34
yacoob	it'd be nice to have webkit browser.	22:34
yacoob	on the tablet, I mean.	22:34
GAN8001	Epiphany WebKit is available	22:35
GAN8001	But the UI sucks.	22:35
johnx	midori is a lot faster anyways	22:35
yacoob	...that's why I said that it would be nice to have webkit browser :D	22:35
GAN8001	t_s_o, the whole thing is actually tablet-browser.	22:35
GAN8001	Well, Mozilla-based browser for Maemo	22:35
GAN8001	tablet-browser-ui	22:35
qwerty12_N800	someone should update bundyo's midori hildonisation patch to the latest head	22:36
timeless	webkit does exist internally as a backend	22:36
timeless	it doesn't actually have anything impressive	22:37
timeless	it's not really worth it	22:37
timeless	and do note that webkit doesn't itself include crypto or various other critical ui elements	22:37
timeless	so it's not actually "useful"	22:37
timeless	you need to build a full browser aroudn it	22:37
t_s_o	well that clears up a lot	22:37
timeless	webkit is a lot closer to gtkhtml than it is to a web browser	22:37
GAN8001	I want a real UI for MicroB.	22:37
timeless	but everyone forgets that	22:37
timeless	gan: no comment :)	22:37
timeless	but w/ that, we're starving	22:37
timeless	alter :)	22:37
GAN8001	Actually, I could just go for an open source UI for MicroB.	22:38
GAN8001	Then the community can run with it.	22:38
t_s_o	what i would like is a way to pick individual images to load while the browser is in "show only loaded images" mode	22:38
t_s_o	thats a good one GAN8001	22:38
milhouse	pong	22:39
GAN8001	milhouse, might you consider nominating yourself for community council candidacy?	22:41
GAN8001	http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/community_council_election.html	22:41
johnx	midori on debian: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/new-screenie2.png	22:41
milhouse	i considered it, but don't think i'm the right person for the job - i've now got only a passing interest in this project i'm afraid	22:42
milhouse	:(	22:42
mavhc	webkit, because firefox just works on too many websites to be cool	22:42
milhouse	GAN: I know it's a lame excuse, but to be honest this project is nothing but aggro	22:42
GAN8001	Burned out on it, have you? :P	22:43
qwerty12_N800	johnx: which environment is that? looks cool :)	22:43
johnx	qwerty12_N800, that's lxde with openbox set for no decorations, maximize by default	22:43
qwerty12_N800	looks good, thanks :)	22:43
milhouse	GAN: Pretty much, my enthusiasm has been crushed under the weight of bureaucracy and finnish corporate politics	22:43
unixSnob	Anyone notice that the n800 doesn't fully function with FON access points? Either the ip phone works, or the browser, but not both	22:44
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johnx	qwerty12_N800, poke at me if you want the settings files. I'm calling it "under construction" for now...	22:44
qwerty12_N800	unixSnob: disable the wifi power saving on the n800	22:44
unixSnob	qwerty12_N800: i'll have that a shot.. thanks	22:45
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qwerty12_N800	johnx: thanks, will do when I reinstall debian	22:45
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johnx	qwerty12_N800, the big red x is for closing the active window, BTW	22:45
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GAN8001	unixSnob, your router has broken wifi PSM	22:45
GAN8001	Not the tablet's fault.	22:46
qwerty12_N800	johnx: cool, i'm clumsy when it comes to my tablet, may have to resize :)	22:46
qwerty12_N800	unixSnob: yeah, dell laptops have the same problem with fon	22:47
unixSnob	GAN8001: other devices don't seem to have a problem with the router... although the n800 doesn't seem to ahve a problem w/ other APs. BTW, what's a PSM?	22:47
mavhc	so that's the reason FON managed to sell routers for $5, they were crap	22:47
milhouse	WiFi PSM -> WiFi Power Save Mode	22:47
unixSnob	GAN8001: hmm.. but I think the n800 had the same issue with another FON AP. I'll have to retest tat	22:48
unixSnob	s/tat/that/	22:48
infobot	unixSnob meant: GAN8001: hmm.. but I think the n800 had the same issue with another FON AP. I'll have to retest that	22:48
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johnx	unixSnob, turn off the power management on the n800 and see if the problem goes away	22:48
milhouse	there's a comment against the PSM bug in bugzilla which refererces FON routers I think	22:48
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johnx	qwerty12_N800, that left panel is actually a bit smaller than the left panel in OS2008	22:49
putterson	how do I get xkbd-bthid to work on my n810? I have it installed and it runs but I don't know how to connect it to my computer.	22:50
milhouse	unix$nob: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1636	22:50
GAN8001	~psm is http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM)	22:50
infobot	...but psm is already something else...	22:50
t_s_o	a subwoofer hooked up to a N810, there goes the neighborhood	22:50
GAN8001	~psm	22:50
infobot	it has been said that psm is Personal Security Manager for Mozilla, at http://docs.iplanet.com/docs/manuals/psm/psm-mozilla/index.html. You don't need to restart mozilla as noted on that URL. It also consumes 100% CPU unfortunately... lame piece of software. no longer works as of mozilla 0.7, or needed for viewing of some login sites, i.e. yahoo. install by apt-get install mozilla-psm	22:50
GAN8001	Ugh	22:51
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GAN8001	~wifi-psm is http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM)	22:51
infobot	okay, GAN8001	22:51
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qwerty12_N800	johnx: cool, maybe I shouldn't then :/ :)	22:51
GAN8001	unixSnob, Wifi PSM is what gives you 3-4 days battery life while idle on wifi	22:52
johnx	qwerty12_N800, at this stage I'm just messing around, seeing what works. Open to ideas and suggestions too :)	22:52
GAN8001	Unfortunately it makes shitty routers spaz out	22:53
GAN8001	and the N800 wont automatically fall back to a safemode.	22:53
unixSnob	GAN8001: guess I should turn off PSM, and just save power by going to offline mode	22:54
GAN8001	Or buy a real router	22:54
johnx	anyways, off to bed. night all	22:54
GAN8001	That'll solve it, too.	22:54
GAN8001	night, johnx.	22:55
unixSnob	at the moment the PSM setting is not in an obvious place	22:55
qwerty12_N800	night johnx	22:55
unixSnob	GAN8001: electronics are pricey in Belgium (where I just moved)	22:55
GAN8001	unixSnob, please read the link I showed you.	22:55
GAN8001	If it's still not clear, I can add screenshots at some point.	22:55
putterson	Does anybody know how to get xkbd-bthid to work?	22:57
unixSnob	ah... PSM is configured on a per connection basis.. that's all I need to know. I'll give it try when I'm done downloading the belgium maps	22:58
t_s_o	i think one save enough power by simply disconnecting. at that point the tablet more or less idles the wifi radio. i cant say i see much diff between wifi disconnected and offline mode over longer periods of time	22:59
GAN8001	Disconnecting means I don't have internet	23:00
GAN8001	Which doesn't work.	23:00
t_s_o	hehe :)	23:00
GAN8001	It's idling on XChat all the time	23:02
GAN8001	and usually fetching mail/waiting for SIP.	23:03
unixSnob	that's seems to have fixed it	23:03
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GAN8001	Say goodbye to your battery life if you're planning on letting it idle, though.	23:03
unixSnob	i keep it plugged in when I'm at home, using my FON router.. on the go, i'll only use other fon rtrs momentarily	23:04
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Khertan	Hi !	23:11
Stskeeps	unixSnob: i don't hvae any problems flashing fonera router with dd-wrt and enabling WMM	23:11
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unixSnob	Stskeeps: what's wmm? I'm actually using a dd-wrt router in client bridge mode	23:12
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps: they run dd-wrt? even my extremely shitty £100 router can't do that :\	23:13
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: they can	23:13
Stskeeps	unixSnob: there's setting for wifi multimedia mode or something.. sec	23:13
qwerty12_N800	now i'm pissed :)	23:13
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Stskeeps	oh, i mean WMI	23:14
unixSnob	Stskeeps: I was thinking about looking into alternate fonera hotspot s/w, but figured i might as well use an actually fonera router. but if dd-wrt is better, and can still participate in the fon network, i'd be quite interested	23:14
Stskeeps	or not..	23:14
Stskeeps	unixSnob: i got tired of my fonera and went and bought a wl-500g premium	23:14
jussio1	/wc	23:14
Stskeeps	cheap and extremely hackable	23:14
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Stskeeps	but yeah, there's a WMM toggle in settings somewhere	23:16
unixSnob	wmm or wmi? wmi google hits don't seem related to fon network	23:16
GAN8001	I like the Buffalo WHR-G125	23:16
GAN8001	Too bad they can't sell them in the States at the moment.	23:16
* unixSnob has a buffaly whr-g54		23:17
GAN8001	Tomato firmware	23:17
GAN8001	So much better than that DD-WRT shit.	23:17
unixSnob	does tomato have client bridge mode?	23:17
unixSnob	and vpn?	23:17
GAN8001	I bought 3 from Circuit City for $20 a piece when they were having a sale.	23:17
unixSnob	I heard tomato was feature poor... but more reliable radio	23:18
GAN8001	It's much lighter	23:18
GAN8001	way more reliable and much, much faster, though.	23:18
unixSnob	well, I need client bridge mode and vpn, so I can mooch off neighbors and not worry about honeypots ;)	23:19
* unixSnob wonders why the whr-g125 is banned in the states		23:20
Veggen	unixSnob: go for something that you can install openvpn on?	23:20
GAN8001	Patent bullshit	23:20
unixSnob	hmmm... should I stock up on these in Belgium, and bring them in?	23:21
GAN8001	http://wifinetnews.com/archives/008025.html	23:21
unixSnob	Veggen: well i'm satisfied with dd-wrt running on buffalo at the moment. The flakiness is rare and manageable	23:22
GAN8001	The WHR-G125 is the new WRT54G in a lot of circles.	23:22
unixSnob	Veggen: although I wonder if it would be worth it to try a firmware with better range	23:22
milhouse	The Linksys WRT610N looks quite interesting...	23:23
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GAN8001	Friend of mine bought one	23:23
GAN8001	It was shit with the stock firmware	23:23
milhouse	Any good?	23:23
milhouse	Ah :)	23:24
GAN8001	Dunno if you can load something aftermarket on there.	23:24
milhouse	Thought it might be...	23:24
GAN8001	He returned it and I upgraded his v2 WRT54G to Tomato.	23:24
unixSnob	heh... it's a patent dispute apparently on the firmware.. too bad they aren't keen to sell the g125 to those who will replace the f/w anyway	23:24
milhouse	I tried Tomato on a WRT54GS v2 - I liked it, shame I couldn't get the port forwarding to work... may give it another try when I get time	23:24
GAN8001	Was it just not working or an issue with the web interface?	23:24
GAN8001	It's a little more complicated than DD-WRT's interface.	23:25
GAN8001	I had trouble getting it to work when I first tried	23:25
GAN8001	Don't remember what I figured out, though.	23:25
milhouse	GAN: Not sure, haven't investigated it much - same result with both 1.19 and 1.21 (latest available)... others don't have a problem, but I suspect it may be peculiar to the 54GS v2	23:25
milhouse	The only other person I could find complaining about port forwarding with Tomato also had a 54GS v2	23:26
GAN8001	Well, you could always pick up a WHR-G125 to use as your router and move the Linksys to network extension duty. ;)	23:27
milhouse	Was actually trying to diagnose a fault with a Slim Devices Duet not working properly with Sveasoft Talisman 1.3.1 so getting Tomato working wasn't my main priority	23:27
GAN8001	I've got 4 units covering my parent's house.	23:27
milhouse	I bought a pair of powerlan 200MB AV units - work a treat	23:27
RST38h	4?!?	23:27
RST38h	Umgh	23:27
milhouse	I used to have a second WR54GS v2 in client mode, which is what I was testing Tomato on	23:27
GAN8001	RST38h, plaster walls and lead paint.	23:28
milhouse	lead paint???	23:28
GAN8001	I get coverage from the other side of the street out front to the alley and from top to bottom.	23:28
GAN8001	Well, we stripped most of it out a long time ago.	23:28
GAN8001	But there's still some around.	23:28
RST38h	well, I have got concrete on steel skeleton, but one DI-624 still does the job	23:28
milhouse	blimey... suspect it's a bit of a health hazzard!	23:29
GAN8001	RST38h, how much space, though?	23:29
GAN8001	~3,500 sq/ft here.	23:29
RST38h	GAN: ~1008ft^2	23:29
GAN8001	milhouse, I had crazy lead poisoning when my dad started repainting the house when I was a kid.	23:29
GAN8001	Might explain a bit. ;)	23:29
RST38h	yea, especially if your 3500 are on several floors...	23:30
milhouse	:)	23:30
GAN8001	Almost 3 floors	23:30
RST38h	yep, that explains it then	23:30
GAN8001	Converted attic on top.	23:30
* crashanddie has changed the topic to: http://maemo.org \| Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 \| logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ \| http://mxr.maemo.org \| https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint4 logs http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/ \| We are currently discussing the size of our homes, current winner: GAN8001 with approx 3,500 sq ft		23:36
GAN8001	Not my home.	23:36
GAN8001	I live in 502sq/ft. ;)	23:36
GAN8001	This'd be my PARENT'S house. :P	23:36
* crashanddie has changed the topic to: http://maemo.org \| Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 \| logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ \| http://mxr.maemo.org \| https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint4 logs http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/ \| We are currently discussing the size of our homes, current loser: GAN8001 with only 502 sq ft		23:37
* GAN8001 pokes crashanddie with a fire-harded spear.		23:37
* crashanddie dodges		23:37
* crashanddie throws the dead-boring microcontroller TLHOPE keynote at GAN8001		23:38
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GAN8001	crashanddie, you have experience with serial connections?	23:38
GAN8001	I kinda got my hacked up connector working on the Beagle	23:39
crashanddie	define:experience	23:39
GAN8001	But I can't bring myself to ask why I'm just getting garbage characters in #beagle.	23:39
crashanddie	what kind of serial port is it ?	23:39
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GAN8001	Well, I need an IDC10 to DB9 (AT/Everex) adaptor	23:39
GAN8001	But I couldn't source one soon enough	23:39
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GAN8001	So I chopped a DB9 cable in half, stripped out soldered and shrink-wrapped the wires.	23:40
GAN8001	Then wired up RX, TX, and GRND to the Beagle	23:40
XTL	hmm	23:41
GAN8001	The problem seems to be with the ground wire that's usually attached to the port shielding.	23:41
GAN8001	If I don't ground it, I get nothing	23:41
GAN8001	If I do, I get garbage characters that are timed like a bootup sequence.	23:41
XTL	Noise?	23:41
GAN8001	(grounding against the SD slot housing)	23:41
GAN8001	Haven't a clue	23:42
crashanddie	what are you connected to ?	23:42
lcuk	ALIENS!	23:42
GAN8001	My experience with serial connections is about nill.	23:42
GAN8001	A Prolific USB adaptor.	23:42
crashanddie	Oh	23:42
crashanddie	that's bad	23:42
GAN8001	I don't have a computer with a real serial port handy.	23:42
GAN8001	I was hoping my dad's ThinkPad would have one, but. . . .	23:42
crashanddie	wait	23:43
crashanddie	how many connecters have you soldered ?	23:43
crashanddie	3?	23:43
GAN8001	Just needs 3 according to the Beagle wiki	23:43
crashanddie	hmm	23:43
crashanddie	did you connect it through null modem ?	23:44
GAN8001	I soldered the stranded wire and shrink wrapped em to make slip-on connectors.	23:44
lcuk	show us the wiki page you are reading	23:44
RST38h	Get a USB-RS232 dongle	23:44
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lcuk	it will help to give context to what you are trying	23:44
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RST38h	They are a bit tricky but work most of the time	23:44
GAN8001	RST38h, got one.	23:44
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crashanddie	GAN800, the problem is, IIRC, only connecting 3 cables on a serial cable is possible, but you'll lose all the RTS, CTS, DCE, DTE and timing pins	23:45
crashanddie	which is kinda what made RS232 so handy in the first place	23:45
GAN8001	http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardFAQ#Serial_connection_.231	23:45
GAN8001	crashanddie, well, I actually hooked everything up originally before I read that ^ and got the same result.	23:46
florian	re	23:46
GAN8001	It's really not particularly important, I'm getting an IDC10 cable tomorrow, I'd just be interested to know if there's a simple explanation.	23:46
crashanddie	GAN8001, ok, so only 3 pins are connected, you read the the paragraph under that? About the random characters ?	23:47
XTL	GAN8001: what powers the bagel?	23:47
lcuk	blueberry muffins and strong tall lattes	23:47
GAN8001	5v adaptor that was sold with it from Digi-Key	23:47
XTL	Mmm.. muffins	23:47
GAN8001	crashanddie, yeah, played with the terminal settings	23:47
GAN8001	Tried a bunch of different terms	23:47
GAN8001	Similar results	23:48
GAN8001	Slightly different random characters on each.	23:48
lcuk	GAN800, cant you just send video out and use usb keyboard	23:48
GAN8001	lcuk, if only. . . .	23:48
lcuk	? why not?	23:48
GAN8001	You have to have a serial console to set up the first boot.	23:48
GAN8001	One video is just the Beagle logo, other is test colors.	23:48
lcuk	but then after that you can?	23:48
GAN8001	Yeah	23:48
XTL	Well, can't say anything from this distance.	23:48
GAN8001	I've got the Angstrom demo ready to go on an SD card.	23:49
RST38h	Wait	23:49
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RST38h	GAN: Try crossing rx/tx wires	23:49
RST38h	i.e. plug it through a null modem and see what happens	23:49
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lcuk	GAN800, :D its a bit like learning to be a ninja	23:50
XTL	I could probably use one of those..	23:50
lcuk	a ninja or a beagleboarrd?	23:50
crashanddie	GAN8001, the USB touchscreens, do you know if they actually get the video through USB, or through DVI ?	23:51
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XTL	Have ninja, will travel	23:51
lcuk	crashanddie, not usually - the usb is just the interface for the touch	23:51
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GAN8001	crashanddie, the Xenarc ones are DVI/VGA/Composite + USB	23:51
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lcuk	look around for purchasing touch panels	23:51
lcuk	ie you can get the same touch overlay in serial or usb, but the video comes from normal source	23:52
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crashanddie	wait	23:55
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crashanddie	there's no ethernet port ?	23:55
GAN8001	No	23:57
GAN8001	No wifi or Bluetooth either	23:57
crashanddie	sucks	23:57
GAN8001	Compact and cheap	23:57
GAN8001	Meh	23:57
GAN8001	USB stuff	23:57
crashanddie	I love the beagleboard	23:57
GAN8001	It's 3"x3"	23:57
GAN8001	and $150	23:57
crashanddie	Don't get me wrong, I love it	23:57
crashanddie	but I mean... No connectivity...	23:57
crashanddie	Or you have to sacrifice the SDIO port and put wifi in there	23:57
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crashanddie	or Usb2E	23:58
GAN800	I've got an old Linksys USB ethernet adaptor that I'll use.	23:59

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