IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-08-21

GeneralAntillesI don't want to try to figure out Scratchbox under PPC/OS X00:00
GeneralAntillesAt least I know compiling on device works. ;)00:00
fred:|00:01
lcukcompiling does, but its not automatic and incomplete for custom projects00:01
moontigerGA: so you dont have a linux box?00:01
lcukthe lack of "configure" support brings most downloaded projects to a fullstop00:01
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, unless you count my tablets.00:01
moontigerwell of course... excepting them i meant00:02
lcukcan we count all of them? we only have 32bit calculators00:02
rm_youGeneralAntilles: maybe I could set you up on my buildbox <_<00:02
GeneralAntillesrm_you, nah, not that important.00:02
GeneralAntillesIt's easier just to con other people into doing my compiling for me. ;)00:02
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* GeneralAntilles pokes Navi with a stick.00:02
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moontigerim finding developing under plain gtk on the desktop then porting works well for me00:02
lcukmoontiger, same goes for sdl (with a few slowdowns)00:03
GeneralAntillesI might dual-boot Linux on my G5 if it didn't turn into a jet taking off in Linux.00:03
* fred finds developing under plain qt on the desktop then plain recompiling (+ ui changes) works well :)00:03
moontigerlcuk, yah i cant imagine developing on the tablet is very much fun for anything more than a few changes00:04
moontigerfred, i hear yah00:04
lcukmoontiger, i do 100% of dev compiling and running on the tablet00:04
* fred needs to do more UI changes though :(00:04
lcuki edit files using komodo edit in windows, or same in linux etc00:05
lcukwhen im out and about though, i can hack away (with pygtkeditor) and make things and tweak and recompile00:05
GeneralAntillesGood compatibility with desktop toolkits is one of the tablet's biggest strengths, but also its biggest weakness. . . .00:05
fredhttp://files.fredemmott.co.uk/yanihp-n810.jpg - not exactly finger-friendly :p00:05
moontigeri was going to look at komodo ... is it worth it?00:05
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lcukive got it configured to write c code - the editor is nice and fast and its styled to look and feel like visual basic classic code editor00:05
moontigerfred, hehe wossit?00:06
* moontiger shudders at the mention of vb ;)00:06
lcukmoontiger, its an editor though, its not a full ide - i use console to build00:06
moontigerlcuk, i use anjuta for c/c++ stuff ... geany for php web ... and now (god help me) gedit for python00:07
bef0rdthe editor is free, right?00:07
fredmoontiger: older full size screenshot: http://files.fredemmott.co.uk/yanihp-info-on-right.png00:07
lcuki wont try to change your mind, but vb can do everything any other language can, its just syntax00:07
lcukbeford yes00:07
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moontigerlcuk, i find it like coding with mittens on compared to c++00:08
lcuki treat vb like methadone00:08
moontigerfred, ok cool ... nice track btw ;)00:08
lcukwhich is why im very happy to be back in c00:08
lcukmicrosoft c is horrid00:08
moontigerlcuk, yah ... im liking python but its kinda vb-ish00:08
lcukcoding for windows turned me off it and thats when i found vb00:08
moontigerlcuk, i used to write trading systems for windows and you couldnt talk to the reuters feeds via vb back then00:09
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mgedminvb turned me off00:09
* fred managed to write some fairly advanced stuff in VB without learning what the difference between a module and a class module was... in 3 years.00:09
mgedminbut then I had found delphi first00:09
* fred hangs head in shame00:10
mgedminbefore it became too buggy to be useful00:10
moontigerits ok fred ... we all understand :)00:10
jottfred: is it possible to change the collection path with yanihp? it seems to lack a menu :)00:10
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lcukmoontiger, having activex access meant you could talk to anyone and anything - it actually made sense on the desktop00:10
moontigeryah but the reuters stuff didnt have any activex controls00:10
fredjott: erm, yeah, it does :p you get asked on first run - otherwise, there's the config file00:10
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jottfred: ok so it's config file :)00:11
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* fred keeps on meaning to add menus + settings page, but doesn't seem to ever get around to it00:11
lcukwithout knowing specifics i cant comment, but ive not had a problem personally where its not been solvable by code or library00:11
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moontigerlcuk, i have great respect for vb coders ... i saw some amazing stuff written in it ... i just alwats preferred the c syntax00:11
lcukfred, i know that feeling, im moving to a brain database right now and pondering things00:11
moontigeralways too00:11
lcukas do i00:11
lcukhence me being here now coding back in c and loving every minute of it :)00:12
moontigerim almost done with my first maemo app ... couple more days and i'll be ready to package it ... that should be fun to figure out00:12
moontiger:)00:12
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jottfred: ah and why are the cover arts fetched from last.fm instead of using embedded or local one?! :O00:12
jottsame for lyrics :)00:13
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jottnever admit you are in charge of an incomplete project or you will be bombarded with feature requests :>00:14
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lcukor an incomplete os00:14
dghenkeSo it would be a bad idea for me to mention I'm sending this from BitchX on my n810?00:15
jottlcuk: still thinking about liqos? ;)00:16
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lcukwell jott, if i *can* get the editor off the ground i can start self compiling00:16
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lcukOMG, maemo had a virus00:17
lcukill b back laterish00:18
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fredjott: coverart is currently cached, and looks at amazon, musicbrainz, and last.fm00:21
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fredplan to look at folder.{jpg,png} and tags, not got around to it00:21
fredwasn't aware there was a lyrics tag though00:21
jottfred: yep, there are multiple lyrics tags :)00:21
fredoh dear.00:21
jottmy collection has both album art and lyrics for nearly all songs :)00:21
jottotherwise i think it looks nice.00:22
jott(only tested on the desktop for now)00:22
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fredjott: got a link to some documentation on lyrics tags in different containers? (or just a list off the top of your head)00:23
jotthttp://www.id3.org/Lyrics3v2 and the other id3.org stuff :)00:23
jottoh lyrics3v2 hmm that's new :)00:24
fredoh dear00:24
* fred harbours a hatred for id300:24
jottfred: http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0#head-e76d4fb26268baf285bff899581cc284427a278900:24
jottUSLT/SYLT00:24
* fred hugs xiph comments for being a format that's actually sane to work with00:25
jotti think those are the most common ones. afair itunes uses USLT00:25
jotthehe00:25
jottyeah id3 is somewhat grown from the wrong seed :)00:26
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derfThere's also CMML/Annodex.00:26
crashanddiedannym, awesome, thanks00:27
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jotthaha but this Lyrics3v2 really shows how broken id3 is :)00:30
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fredwtf...00:35
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* fred spots APIC type 1100:35
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fredhttp://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0#head-70a65d30522ef0d37642224c2a40517ae35b715500:36
jottyep00:36
jottthat's the one commonly used.00:37
jottwtf00:37
jottarg00:37
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fredI assume that type $03 is the common one :p00:37
jotthehe00:37
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jottyes00:37
lcukindividually the letters work00:38
jottThe ID3v2 standard may suck, but bright coloured fish seem to be the redeeming value of this standard.00:38
jottfirst google hit :)00:38
* jott should tag his mp3s with the proper fishes00:39
fred21:39 < Faux> fred: Clearly a nod at Xiph. :p00:40
fred:p00:40
jotthehe00:41
jottyeah probably00:41
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* fred resists urge to make a few 'MP3s' with no MP3 audio but with ogg/vorbis embedded in APIC $1100:41
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dannymcrashanddie: you're welcome :)00:46
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polyonymousHey guys, I'm trying to install the maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org thingie, which tries to grab stuff from maemo.research.nokia.com, which doesn't quite exist. Do you know a solution to the problem?00:49
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lbtref deblet and just general interest... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/20/freerunner_debian/00:49
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lbtpolyonymous: you know you're going for a bleeding edge sdk right?00:51
lbtfor a productive sdk go here: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo-4-1-diablo-sdk/00:52
lbtor let us know how it works out :) I dropped sdk+ a couple of months back...00:53
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moontigerguys... how often would you want a calendar app to auto-refresh?00:54
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lbtmoontiger: just before it needs to00:56
* moontiger laughs 00:56
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polyonymouslbt, of course I do ;-)00:56
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lbtthink about it... especially with alarms etc.... updates often arrive more frequently near events00:57
polyonymouslbt, I've tried the production one, it works, now it's time to try bleeding edge, isn't it? :)00:57
lbtpolyonymous: just in case - I can't tell if you're a noob or just nuts...00:57
lbtit worked very nicely for me for a while00:57
polyonymouslbt, the latter :)00:57
lbtthen it started playing silly buggers with LD_PRELOAD00:58
lbtand died00:58
lbtI haven't got round to trying again yet...00:58
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polyonymousI don't mind it dying. But you see - you've tried it, and so I want to :)00:58
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pupnikwoo i may be able to make it to berlin01:00
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lbthttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21448001:00
dannymsleeep...01:00
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lbtpolyonymous: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3201:00
lbtpolyonymous:google-foo--01:01
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lbtalso suggests you're using a v.old source01:01
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lbtanyhow I'm off -- good luck01:01
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polyonymouslbt, thanks01:02
moontigerlbt, maybe i didnt put that very well ... in terms of fetching your stuff from say google calendar ... what update interval would be often enough?01:02
polyonymousActually, I'm off for today myself :)01:02
moontigeroh doh!01:02
lbtmoontiger: I knew what you meant01:02
moontigerlaterz01:02
lbtI guess 15 mins01:02
lbtbut be clever01:02
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moontigeri am ;)01:02
lbtso adapt the timing near events01:02
lbtfor those last minute change of venues01:02
lbtetc01:03
moontigerhmmmmmmmmm... in case they change you mean?01:03
moontigerright01:03
moontigernice idea :)01:03
moontigerthnx01:03
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lbtalso, if nothing happens, lighten the load in quiet times01:03
lbtbattery life01:03
moontigerright01:03
moontigerthere is a manual refresh option too01:03
lbtcron is so last week01:03
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lbtand the week before ;)01:03
lbt'night all01:04
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GeneralAntillespupnik, you gonna do a session?01:04
polyonymousnight01:04
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lardman__re01:18
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cbx33hey guys01:33
cbx33just updated to diablo01:33
cbx33and now it won't let me install the updates01:34
cbx33any ideas why?01:34
cbx33unable to update browser-neteal01:34
cbx33and it dos it fo alot of the packages01:34
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cbx33any ideas?01:36
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yacoobHello there :) Is there a way to get rid of presence icon in the upper right corner?01:41
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cbx33hmmm01:43
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cbx33none of my catalogs say diablo01:43
cbx33should they?01:43
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bef0rdyacoob, disabling all accounts I believe01:44
yacoobcbx33, if I'm not mistaken, if you don't specify anything, app manager will use current distro name01:44
bef0rdyacoob, or in the control panel01:44
* bef0rd checks01:44
yacoobbef0rd, doesn't seem to be an option to hide the icon, just default status and time to away01:45
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bef0rdyea, just checked, presence can't be disabled01:45
bef0rd:/01:45
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cbx33well i can't update01:47
cbx33I'm sure that must be it01:48
cbx33maybe I'll restore from backup but ignore my appliation list01:48
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yacoobsadly, pidgin sucks even more than built in chat. Oh well.01:55
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MangoFusionyacoob: i second that02:06
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cbx333hey all02:13
bef0rdhi02:14
cbx333anyone have a stock sources file??? for diablo??02:14
cbx333when i restroe my backup it overwrites it02:14
cbx333even if i untick application list02:15
lardmanyacoob: but you can add presence plugin02:15
lardmanyacoob: though it seems to kill the battery (Pidgin)02:15
lardmananyway, night all02:16
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AStormwhy oh WHY doesn't n810 have the GPS from N8202:33
AStormalso a question - is it possible to hack BP-6M supporting phone to use BP-6L?02:34
AStorm(the same n810 does)02:34
AStormwait, I'm wrong02:34
AStormBP-5L02:34
glassare the sizes about the same?02:34
AStormno02:35
AStormok, it's impossible02:35
AStormthe fresh BP-6M is smaller and 1050 mAh02:35
AStormit's like 2/3 of BP-5L ;P02:36
AStormeven in size02:36
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AStormwell, it still uses the same old small Nokia plug...02:42
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AStormwhich means my designer phone battery adapter will work :P02:42
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derfAStorm: N82 uses AGPS (Assisted GPS), so it's using information from the cell network that the N810 doesn't have.02:46
AStormwell02:47
AStormcan it make that info available over Bluetooth?02:47
AStorm;P02:47
mgedminagps rules02:48
AStormindeed02:48
glassisn't there some app for s60(either native or j2me) that makes the phone act as a bt gps?02:48
mgedminbut IT DOES NOT WORK when you need it: i.e. when you're abroad02:48
mgedminand there's no open wifi around you02:49
mgedminand no gprs/edge/3g data connection02:49
glassmgedmin: works but it's horribly expensive usually..02:49
AStormmgedmin: well, 90s GPS lock time of my n810 is cool enough02:49
AStormat worst it's 180s02:49
mgedminmeh, move halfway across the globe and try again02:50
AStorm(weird, as it should get correct almanac in much shorter time)02:50
AStormmgedmin: ... it's 30s residential02:50
AStormthanks to those nice maemo mapper updates02:50
AStormalthough agps is more precise obviously02:50
AStormhot lock is fast too02:51
AStormthe thing I need is a good app, like, ARM version of AutoMapa ;P02:51
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mgedminokay, what's this "residential" thing and should I update my maemo-mapper?02:52
AStormor some nice hack to make maemo mapper voice-guide02:52
AStormmgedmin: it means if the time and position matches well enough, the fix is much faster02:52
mgedminwaah I want zeroconf/mdns/avahi on my n81002:53
mgedminI have my laptop and the n810 in the same (foreign) wlan, and I want to ssh to it by name, not by ip02:53
AStormuhm, add your own DNS server?02:54
mgedminby "foreign" I was trying to say "the wifi of the hotel I'm currently staying at that I cannot really reconfigure"02:54
mgedminpoorly-chosen word, that "foreign"02:54
AStormahh well02:55
AStorm/etc/hosts, use it02:55
mgedminip, dynamic, hard to figure out02:55
mgedminI suppose I should give up and install that home applet02:55
AStorms/dynamic/use dyndns/02:55
mgedminwow, cool02:55
AStormah, you mean the IP of the device02:55
mgedminassuming dyndns works for internal IPs02:56
AStormit does detect them02:56
AStormsets your dns to external ip02:56
AStormalthough I guess you could force it02:56
mgedminhm weird, I can't ping it by ip02:57
mgedmineven though I'm in the same lan02:57
mgedminfirewall?02:57
mgedminthat would make my zeroconf wishes moot02:58
AStormpings are disabled maybe?02:58
AStormtry tcpping or sth02:58
mgedminssh also worketh not02:58
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AStormmgedmin: ok, you've lost connection03:00
AStormso, what's that nice app to make the nice AGPS of N82 available over Bluetooth?03:00
mgedminA-GPS Beta?03:01
AStormfor Symbian obviously03:01
mgedminno idea03:01
mgedminI don't know if n810's software can make use of the cell info03:01
AStormthere was talk of AGPS support for n81003:02
mgedminthere is03:02
mgedminit needs an internet connection (either wifi or gprs of some kind)03:02
AStormI'd only need the AGPS-enabled GPS of Nokia N82 to look like Bluetooth GPS receiver03:02
mgedminI think all it does is download the current almanac/ephemeris/whatever data03:02
AStorm:>03:02
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AStormmgedmin: yes, it's called quick fix03:03
AStormit downloads fresh ephemeris03:03
AStormalmanac wouldn't help as much03:03
mgedmina turn-my-phone-into-bt-gps app would be cool03:03
AStormunfortunately, I'd have to get my hands dirty with Symbian to code that03:03
AStormthough it's not impossible03:04
* mgedmin hates the guy who decided on naming .documents, .sounds etc with a starting dot03:04
AStormyes03:04
mgedminhow am I supposed to du -chs MyDocs/* ???03:04
AStormmgedmin: du -chs MyDocs/.[a-zA-Z0-9]*03:04
mgedminhow am I supposed to type [ and ] on my n810 ???03:05
AStorm...03:05
mgedminyes, yes, I know, use the vkb03:05
AStormwith Fn03:05
AStormah, wait, that's just my customized layout ;P03:05
AStormuse Chr key03:05
mgedminyep03:05
AStormalso, my layout is *still* not included in ukeyboard03:05
mgedminhey, du is cool03:05
AStormand it ownz03:06
mgedmindu -chs MyDocs/.* shows me I have 64 megs in MyDocs and 8 megs outside03:06
mgedminI suspect it's du's hardlink-detection code that kicks in03:06
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mgedminbut it doesn't show me the .sounds/whatever03:07
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mgedminwow, I have 17 megs of saved gps tracks03:08
mgedminhadn't realised those were big03:08
mgedminoh, right, xml03:08
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pupnikthere was probably a reason for the . mgedmin03:31
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moontigerpupnik, so do you do 3d stuff?03:32
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pupniki used to03:32
pupnikmostly 2d accel from 1987-199103:32
moontigerwhere at?03:32
moontigeroh ok03:32
moontigergames?03:32
pupnikno CAD03:33
moontigerahhhhhhhhh i c03:33
moontigercool :)03:33
pupnikluck03:33
pupnikso where do i go tonight03:34
pupnikto meet a nice lady friend type human03:34
shaprMiddle East in Cambridge03:34
pupniki could probably be in england in a few hours03:34
shaprEr, not that Cambridge!03:34
AStormpupnik: well, if I could just have that kind of dilemma here ;P03:34
pupnikit was damn fun with lcuk in berlin03:35
shaprCome visit Boston!03:35
pupnikno ... can't visit USA03:36
pupnikam on terrorist list03:36
shaprwhy not?03:36
shaprreally?03:36
AStormpupnik: lol03:36
AStormdue to what?03:36
pupnikmy opinions, dumbass03:36
AStormmad bombing run? being jailed? ;P03:36
AStormor just mental institution?03:36
pupnikno just speech, you fuck03:36
pupnikjust opposing mass murder03:36
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AStormUS is going downwards quick03:37
shaprWell, I left Sweden to move to the USA.03:37
shaprSweden isn't much better.03:37
AStormstill is better03:37
pupnikgerman03:37
pupniky isn't much better either03:37
shaprFor some things Sweden is better than the USA. Not for software dev.03:37
Proteousthe govment just be trying to protect us03:38
Proteousfrom ourselfs03:38
Proteouswe be too dumb to do it03:38
Proteousplease mr govment03:38
pupnikyou're right shapr ... it's all not so binary O|103:38
Proteoushelp us be safe03:38
AStormthe bush-man is smrt03:38
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shaprpupnik: yup03:38
shaprpupnik: Sweden was much better for healthy food though. I liked that.03:38
shaprIt's cheaper to buy healthy food in Sweden. Cheaper to buy fattening food in the USA.03:38
pupnikalso bad food... chickens with shit all over the meat03:39
ProteousI needs my pork rinds and tato chips03:39
AStormit's not cheap to buy proper food in Poland too :/03:39
AStormit's getting more and more expensive03:39
pupnikthe chicken in usa tastes like shit... because you are eating meat covered in chicken shit03:39
shaprpupnik: I haven't had that problem.03:39
AStormsame almost everywhere03:39
AStormit tastes like fish03:39
AStormit's so wrong on many levels03:39
shaprI had some beefalo not too long ago, that was tasty.03:40
pupniki'm gonna start killing my own animals03:40
AStormpupnik: cat soup? ;P03:40
shaprsquirrel soup is good!03:40
pupnikyes... that means 96% vegetarian03:40
pupnikjust 4% killing03:40
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shaprLife feeds on life.03:40
pupnikwill go do now... ttyl03:40
AStormexcept plants03:41
AStormyou're not a plant, btw03:41
* shapr waves at pupnik 03:41
lardman~lart unmatching checksums03:48
* infobot frags unmatching checksums with his BFG900003:48
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shaprIs it easy to get my mac address from /proc somewhere?03:51
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lardmanifconfig?03:51
lardmanor look in control panel is probably easiest03:51
Proteouslook under the battery cover?03:51
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lardmanhi lcuk203:51
shaprI mean, programmatically...03:52
shaprI want to generate GUIDs.03:52
AStormshapr: well, uuidgen is there :>03:52
shaprlardman: Yeah, ifconfig is probably best, thanks.03:52
AStormin e2fsprogs03:52
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shaprhmm03:53
shaprAStorm: thanks03:53
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n800mi think it's programily03:56
moontigeris there a way to *properly* find out what modules my app actually needs as opposed to just commenting them out and seeing it it still runs?03:57
moontigerim coding in python btw03:57
lardmanjust comment them out, should be pretty easy to work it out03:59
lcuk2hi lardman, you are up late04:00
moontigerok cool... thats what i am doing ... just wondered if there was a *proper* way ... thnx :)04:00
lcuk2moontiger, there is no magic button04:00
lardmanNot that I've ever tried :)04:00
lcuk2get an ide which has an intelligence library and knows how to read code and you might have it04:00
moontigercool thnx :)04:00
moontigerim not that good with python yet so i dont know if there is some stuff going on behind the scenes that might bite me04:01
lcuk2you are thinking like microsoft and expecting everything built in, for most stuff, expect to get to know the library before you can use it04:01
* lardman votes for it writing the code too!04:01
moontigerjust trying to reduce the footprint is all :)04:02
lcuk2its been a bit of a culture shock to me, but googling the function of class usually brings up enough04:02
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shaprmoontiger: You could always do explicit imports.04:02
* lcuk2 is starting to feel comfortable with linux now04:02
moontigerheh i know what you mean :)04:02
moontigershapr, you mean with "import blahblah"04:03
moontiger?04:03
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moontigerlcuk, me too ... i wouldnt want to go back to windows programming if i had a choice ... i like the linux way04:03
lcuk2the only thing i actively like about windows is vb classic..04:04
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lcuk2i cannot stand anything produced since .net came out04:04
shaprmoontiger: Yeah04:05
shaprlcuk2: After ten years of being microsoft free, I got a .NET job in January.04:05
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shaprlcuk2: So far, the only good point of Visual Studio is that it has pretty graphical designers. But its flaws make VS an overall negative.04:06
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moontigershapr, im doing that already thnx :)  funny bout the .NOT job ;)04:06
moontigeri cant stand vs200804:06
shaprI'm doing SharePoint dev for a living. I mostly use emacs/cygwin/etc.04:06
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moontigerlcuk2, yah i think they lost the plot since ballmer took charge04:07
shaprMicrosoft dev makes me crazy.04:07
lardman~lart bitreading code04:08
* infobot hauls bitreading code up by the scruff of the neck and spanks him until he waddles04:08
lcuk2shapr, a portion of our codebase has been recoded in .shit over the last 2 years.  it makes me shudder when i see just how slow simple things are04:08
moontigeryah ... i was always in mfc / atl stuff04:08
lcuk2it looks pretty some of the time, but the graphical glitches and general sluggishness are just dire04:08
shaprThe only thing worse is all the programmers I meet who have only ever microsoft, have never even heard of the alternatives.04:08
shaprever used*04:09
lcuk2which also explains why i dont like using hildon .. ;)04:09
moontigeryah04:09
lcuk2shapr, you get used to the libraries04:09
lcuk2its like a comfort zone where you know how it all works.04:10
shaprYeah, but I doubt I'll ever get used to the instability of the apps.04:10
lcuk2uncertainty is the worst one04:10
moontigerthats what happens when you lower the barrier to entry so much04:10
shaprYeah, it's hard to change.04:10
shaprBut I knew that ten years ago, that's why I refused to take a microsoft job for that time :-)04:10
moontigernow you've turned to the dark side luke...04:11
shaprBecause I now know that linux, etc makes programming that much easier.04:11
lcuk2the main rebuilt app in .net is having a problem.  when left alone for a few minutes it would deadlock.  no reason or anything.  i got called in today to see if i could work my usual magic (i have an ability to track and identify bugs and clean them effectively..)04:11
shaprmoontiger: Now I get to demonstrate cygwin, etc to my coworkers.04:11
lcuk2i found out it has a listening port04:11
shapr!04:11
shaprum, why?04:11
lcuk2i asked the main dev what it was and he had no idea his app was making network connections04:11
shaprsheesh04:12
moontiger??04:12
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lcuk2it really pisses me off04:12
shaprlcuk2: Did you figure out why it's listening?04:12
moontigeror what its listening for??04:12
lcuk2i know every line of code in my applications and would know for certain what every little bit does04:12
lcuk2no because ive not got 2008 on my machine04:13
moontigerbarrier to entry == too low04:13
lardmaneven if you wrote it while drunk...?04:13
lardman;)04:13
lcuk2heh lardman :D04:13
lcuk2ok 1 little thing :P04:13
lcuk2you bastard!04:13
lardman:)04:13
lcuk2oh shit, i just woke the missus04:13
shaprshh!04:14
lardmanoops04:14
shaprmanchester? ma?04:14
lcuk2uk04:14
shaprah, too bad. Manchester, MA is about fifteen minutes drive from here.04:14
lcuk2its only 1 thing - i ask about things like threads and code running04:15
lcuk2he blanks it "none of my code is running"04:15
lcuk2i never said your code, i said whats happening whilst the form is on screen04:15
lcuk2what times are there, whats being kicked off04:15
shaprMost .net programmers don't know.04:15
lardmanlcuk2: you're ranting ;)04:15
shaprI still don't know much yet :-(04:15
lcuk2of course04:15
lcuk2lardman, do i recall you saying you had installed liqbase04:16
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lardmanyep, very nice04:16
lardmanas expected04:17
lcuk2is it still on your system?04:17
lardmanyep04:17
lcuk2ill send you a mail in a minute04:17
moontigershapr, do you go to codeproject.com ?04:17
lardmanyou're not the phantom-font-changer are you?04:17
lcuk2just got a sketch on it, i would like to see if somethings possible04:17
lcuk2what do you mean?04:17
lardmanmy menu font has changed04:18
lcuk2what to?04:18
lardmanlittle04:18
lcuk2i dont see how04:18
lcuk2which menu?04:18
lardmanonly for desktop messages (like screen locked) & the hw off button menu04:18
lardmanno worries, it's not liqbase04:18
lcuk2ahhh k, what is it?04:19
lardmanno idea04:19
lardmannot too bothered04:19
n800mit was microsoft04:21
n800mor these guys http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=mR-VVHxcFDQ&feature=related04:21
lcuk2actually simon, doesnt matter for tonight, its bedtime i think04:23
lardmanyeah, I'm feeling pretty tired now too04:24
lardmanperhaps I'll actually go to sleep now04:24
lcuk2you aint normally about this time of night04:24
lardmannah, I went to bed, but couldn't sleep04:25
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lardmanconverting dsp-tremor to use 16bit type buffers for 8bit data is enough to send anyone to sleep ;)04:27
shaprmoontiger: What's that?04:27
lardmananyway, see you chaps tomorrow04:27
* shapr waves04:27
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moontigercodeproject.com is the best website and forums for ms dev work ... some very good people there to help if you need any questions answered04:28
shaprthanks04:28
moontigernp :)04:28
shaprMy real problem is just lack of familiarity with the libs. I have a lot of programming experience.04:28
moontigerthere are a lot of tutorials and articles there as well to show you how to do stuff ... i learn a lot from there when im doing something new04:28
moontigercheck it out ;)04:29
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lcuk2http://www.reddit.com/r/Bacon/comments/6x2ap/chipotle_blta_photo/04:34
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BaykKhertan you here?05:04
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AFBN810wow I didn't even know I was online lol05:21
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GeneralAntillesInteresting bit on OMAP3: http://www.embedded.com/underthehood/210101486;jsessionid=S1PIBDKTEA45IQSNDLOSKH0CJUNN2JVN06:17
mgedminhey, did the last diablo os update (the first one that was apt-gettable) have a changelog?06:19
mgedmin"email and browser changes" is a bit vague06:19
GeneralAntillesModest and MicroB updates06:21
GeneralAntillessome fixes to text input06:21
GeneralAntillesand some fixes to icd206:22
GeneralAntillesModest had a lot of its larger bugs fixed06:22
GeneralAntillesMicroB had some pretty big performance boosts06:22
moontigerdoes anyone know how to mount my n810 over sshfs NOT as root on the n810?06:23
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, http://tinyurl.com/5axvau06:23
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mgedminmoontiger: I do06:23
moontigerummmmm could you enlighten me please :)06:24
mgedminmoontiger@laptop $ sshfs user@n810:/ my-n81006:24
brontidebah, any pymaemo/pygtk experts... why does showing a dialog during a gobject.idle_add function cause the app to hang06:24
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moontigermgedmin, then it asks for a password and user doesnt have one06:25
moontigerthats where im stuck06:25
mgedminset up pubkey auth06:25
brontidesudo gainroot; passwd user ?06:25
mgedminif you don't have a ssh key, generate one with ssh-keygen06:25
mgedminthen ssh-copy-id user@my-n81006:25
moontigerughhhhhhh really? :|06:25
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mgedmintype in your password... aaah!06:26
mgedminduh, of course 'user' has no password, and that's why you have problems06:26
moontigerthis doesnt affect me actually USING my n810 afterwards does it?06:26
gregorovius__nope06:27
moontigerso the password key is only for remote connections yes?06:27
moontiger(sorry im being dumb)06:27
gregorovius__i created a password for user to login first, did the rest over ssh and then removed the passwd again06:27
mgedminanyway, if you copy ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub to your n810 and put it into /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys, you'll be able to do passwordless logins06:27
moontigerso ssh-keygen makes that file yes?06:29
gregorovius__yes. if yu have gnome you can do it all with seahorse, btw06:29
moontigeri use xubuntu these days ... gnome i guess06:30
moontigerok i got the .pub file06:30
moontigernow copy to my n810 and voila! yes?06:30
gregorovius__pretty much06:31
moontigerok so cool ... thnx so much ... again ! :)06:32
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gregorovius__funky06:33
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moontigerhmmmmm still not working06:35
moontigeris .ssh/autorized_keys a directory?06:37
gregorovius__no, it's a file06:41
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moontigerso i rename the .pub file? im confused :|06:43
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gregorovius__moontiger, copy the contents into the  file06:48
moontigerok i think i got it .... the "cat blah >> blee" thing threw me :/06:48
moontigersorry for being dumb ... this stuff is kinda new to me06:48
moontigeri got it now :)06:48
moontigerthnx06:48
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_gregorovius_no problem :)06:49
moontigerthats so cool :) now i can stop using sbox so much :)06:50
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moontigerway cool ... now i have to fully hildonize my app ... its running ok enough already ... exciting :)06:56
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moontigeromg i can actually edit ON the n810! that is way cool :)07:02
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bef0rdcool moontiger07:25
bef0rdwhat are you developing on?07:25
bef0rdI mean, python, c?07:25
moontigerwell im using python to write a desktop applet07:25
moontigermy first attempt07:25
moontiger:)07:25
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bef0rdoh cool07:27
* bef0rd needs some python / gtk help07:27
moontigermaybe i can help :)07:30
moontigerwassup?07:30
moontigerbef0rd, what do you need help with?07:33
bef0rdheh ok07:33
bef0rdI really know zero about GTK07:33
bef0rdI was trying to make this simple app07:34
bef0rdIt'll download a random image from a server every X minutes, and display it07:34
bef0rdThis is what I've done so far07:36
bef0rdhttp://slexy.org/view/s20tOXI9AT07:36
bef0rdI'm new to python as well :P07:37
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bef0rdso, what it does atm is to load the random image but only once the app is loaded07:41
bef0rdI can't figure out how to make it change the image07:41
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* moontiger is looking07:51
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moontigerbef0rd, im looking and i can see some stuff that could be better :)07:52
bef0rdcool :)07:53
moontigerbef0rd, is the image getting saved to the nokia?07:53
bef0rdatm it is07:54
bef0rdI suppose I can add an option to 'cache' the images07:54
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bef0rdif the user disables it, it will delete it before loading it07:54
moontigerso whats not happening?07:55
moontigerahhhhhhhhh sorry ... i just read above07:56
bef0rdyep that07:56
moontigerbtw... all that "window = hildon.Window()" then "self.window = window" isnt necessary07:56
moontigerjust do "self.window = hildon.Window()"07:57
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moontigeralso... i dont see why you would do threading in this context ... seems unnecessary to me07:58
DekaritaeCould someone test something for me?07:58
moontigerthe problem is ... where are you calling the "getcat" function from?07:58
DekaritaeIf I try to load this image in Image Viewer, it crashes07:58
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moontigerDekaritae, what image?07:59
Dekaritaehttp://dekaritae.nothingtrend.com/uploads/Translink_Vancouver.gif07:59
moontigerDekaritae, works fine here07:59
DekaritaeHmm08:00
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DekaritaeOki thanks08:02
bef0rdmoontiger, the 'changeCat' method?08:02
moontigerbef0rd, yes08:02
bef0rdI think I'm calling it from 'outside' of the program class, 'Meow'08:03
moontigeroh i see...08:03
moontigerwhy not just use a timer inside the class?08:03
bef0rdoh, that could work heh08:03
bef0rda timer with gobject?08:03
bef0rdor is there any other approach?08:04
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moontigera gobject.time_out()08:04
bef0rdok so where should I put the timer?08:05
moontigerthere are always many other ways ... some better ... some not so ... its all choice but i would use a gobject.timeout_add()08:05
bef0rd_init?08:05
moontigerwell you kick it off in the init function so it starts with the app08:05
moontigerthen in the timer handler you re-init it08:06
bef0rdok08:06
* bef0rd tries08:06
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moontigerhave a look in there for some ideas :)08:07
bef0rdthanks08:07
bef0rdlet's see if the file transfer works heh08:08
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moontigertry one more time08:13
moontigeror msg me ur email and i'll send08:14
bef0rdthanks, munozferna at gmail.com08:14
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moontigerok gimme 2mins08:16
moontigerchk email ... from "lauren" ;)08:18
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* brontide beats gtk to a bloody pulp08:28
bef0rdmoontiger, thanks again08:29
moontigerbef0rd, glad to help :)08:29
moontigerawwwwwwwwww brontide wassup with gtk now?08:29
brontideFinally figured out that both idle_add and threads require a gtk.gdk.threads_init() and enter/leave blocks, but gobject style stuff doesn't work08:29
brontideNow almost all blocking stuff is idle'ed or threaded under DialCentral fka Grandcentral Dialer and it's far more responsive08:30
brontide( not that it was bad before )08:30
brontide;-)08:30
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pupnikahha09:00
pupnikah a09:00
pupnik ahan09:00
pupniknah09:01
n800ntake on me?09:01
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zapuh, uhuh, huhuh, huhhh09:02
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moontigerKhertan, how do i package my applet up for dist? its still rough but it works so i would love to get some feedback from a few users :)09:06
* zap hates python applets, they eat up CPU09:08
zapand battery09:08
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n800nwhat applet09:10
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zaphome*09:11
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moontigerummmmm sheesh.... im scared to say now :|09:12
n800ndon't listen to the python haters09:13
moontigerit get stuff from google calendar and show it on the home screen09:13
n800ncool09:13
moontigeryah well it kinda works for me as i just want to see a scrollable list of events coming up for as far into the future as i choose09:14
pupnikfuck all of us09:14
pupnikdeath death death comes09:14
moontigerits my forst app for maemo so it has a lot of room for improvement but it does work and do something useful already09:14
moontigerforst = first09:15
n800nmoontiger, i'd try it bu i've never used google calendar09:15
moontigerheh i only use it for work stuff ... this means i wont forget appts09:15
moontiger:)09:15
n800nunless09:15
n800nyou're offline09:15
moontigerno ... it takes care of that09:16
moontigerhas local storage etc etc09:16
zapmoontiger: make sure your applet is inactive at least when desktop is invisible09:17
pupniklisten to bach when you die09:17
pupnikyou will die09:17
zapmoontiger: I've installed yesterday homeip, homediskfree and homecpu and this morning my N810 was dead09:17
pupniklisten to bach09:17
pupnikyou will die09:18
zapyes, Bach is a good addition to python applets09:18
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n800n:09:18
n800n; /09:18
n800nis he  ok09:18
zapI hope he's not too drunk :)09:18
n800noh that's all?09:18
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zapdrunk+depression perhaps :)09:19
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n800nthey go together09:20
n800nhangovers are there to fix that09:20
moontigerzap: ummmmm ... inactive as in?09:20
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moontigerzap, i c ... this one doesnt poll anything unless you tell it to09:21
moontigerit does an initial data load and leaves it until you refresh09:21
moontigerthere is (will be really soon) to set an auto-update period (in hours)09:22
moontiger+ an option09:22
Khertan_n810zap: python applet don t drain battery09:22
Khertan_n810at least if they are well coded09:22
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moontigeri will leave mine "running" all night to test09:23
Khertan_n810as when device idle they idle too09:23
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moontigermy understanding is that if i draw something to the home screen and do not update it then no battery drain will occur ... correct?09:23
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Khertan_n810mine have run 7 days without problem09:23
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Khertan_n810moontiger: correct09:24
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moontigerKhertan_n810, where can i get your pypackager thingy from?09:24
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Khertan_n810if you use gobject timeout just shutdown it in the background call back09:24
Khertan_n810pypackager is available for chinook but not for diablo09:25
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Khertan_n810as with diablo you can t upload to repository09:25
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moontigerbackground callback: yes nice ... how then do ipackage my lil thingy ?09:25
Khertan_n810if you want to diablo repository use py2deb09:26
moontigerok cool thanks :)09:26
moontigermy app isnt anywhere near as nice as yours are yet but im still learning :)09:26
Khertan_n810install py2deb and look at /usr/lib/python2.5/site-package/py2deb.py09:27
Khertan_n810as there is no doc yet09:27
moontigerok will do09:27
Khertan_n810i m still learning too09:27
moontigerthnx so much :)09:27
Khertan_n810and ask if you need help :)09:27
moontigerwill do :)09:27
moontigerits a cmdline tool yes?09:28
Khertan_n810http://pastebin.com/f367fb9f09:29
Khertan_n810yep09:29
Khertan_n810a makefile for py2deb example09:31
Khertan_n810in fact the one for mcalendar09:31
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moontigerahhhhhhh i see ... you made this specific to mcalendar ... so i just edit the stuff i need and run it yes?09:31
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Khertan_n810it a example of makefile :)09:32
Khertan_n810yep edit it09:32
moontigernice!09:32
Khertan_n810and then scp to extras builder09:32
moontigeri see you dont put pygtk etc as depends ... can they be relied upon to be there?09:32
Khertan_n810it depends of what u need09:33
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Khertan_n810i m back09:47
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moontigeron the cellfone connection?10:02
moontigerKhertan_n810, how did you get those nice transparent backgrounds? is that the cairo stuff?10:02
Khertan_n810yep10:03
Khertan_n810cairo10:03
Khertan_n810yep cellphone connection10:03
moontigerdoh! i didnt want to do all that stuff but it looks so nice :|10:03
Khertan_n810at home and work i use the nick Khertan10:04
Khertan_n810:)10:04
moontigerwhat work do you do?10:04
moontigerif its ok to ask10:04
moontigerbrb making some tea10:05
Khertan_n810i m a software engineer10:05
Khertan_n810working in small company ...10:05
Khertan_n810mainly dev using the rad 4d10:06
Khertan_n8104d.com10:06
Khertan_n810a french rad10:06
moontigernice10:07
moontigerare you going to be in long beach in october?10:07
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Khertan_n810long beach ? vacancy ... haha no :)10:08
Khertan_n810s/vacancy/holiday10:08
moontigershame ... its quite nice there ... i saw the conference thing on ur company home page10:08
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moontigervacation btw ;)10:09
Khertan_n810i don t work for 4d i use their tool10:09
Khertan_n810:)10:09
moontigerohhhhhhhhhhhhhh10:09
Khertan_n810hehe10:09
moontigermy bad i misunderstood :)10:09
Khertan_n810i work for naxos ...10:09
Khertan_n810naxos.fr10:09
Khertan_n810which has been bought by nexity10:09
moontigerhmmmmm... its all in french ;)10:10
Khertan_n810yes i know website is horrible10:10
moontigerare u in paris?10:10
Khertan_n810yep10:10
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moontigernice10:10
moontigerim moving to madrid in december :)10:11
Khertan_n810in fact at 'issy les moulineaux'10:11
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Khertan_n810a south city of paris10:11
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Khertan_n810but my office is at 300 of paris border :)10:12
Khertan_n810300m10:12
moontigerdont know it ... but i dont know paris so well ... only been there a few times10:12
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Khertan_n810where do u live ?10:12
moontigerright now im in san francisco10:12
Khertan_n810never see it irl :)10:13
moontigerits cool enough but im missing europe too much after 5yrs10:13
Khertan_n810hehe10:13
Khertan_n810i ve hesitate 2 year ago to go to mineapolis10:14
moontigermineapolis .... i drove thru it once ... glad to leave10:14
Khertan_n810:)10:14
moontigeri lived in nyc before here10:14
moontigerand before that south africa10:14
Khertan_n810i have a job there ... but my wife can t work nin us10:15
Khertan_n810s/sin/in10:15
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moontigershame! i think its going to get better here if obama wins10:16
Khertan_n810diplonope10:16
Khertan_n810nope10:16
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Khertan_n810diplome not recognized10:17
moontigerahhhhh yes10:17
moontigerthey are very strict here10:17
Khertan_n810she is 'sage-femme'10:17
moontiger?10:17
Khertan_n810don t know how we say in english :)10:17
moontigerahhh midwife10:18
moontigerto help with the babies10:18
Khertan_n810a less graded doctor that help babyh to born10:18
AStormyeah midwife10:18
Khertan_n810midwife ... i ve learn sometning today10:18
moontiger:)10:18
moontigerwhats the work situation like in europe these days?10:19
AStormmoontiger: depends on the country :|10:19
Khertan_n810bad in france ...10:19
moontigerwell im heading to madrid to start with10:19
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Khertan_n810but a bit better for software engineer10:20
moontigercool ... what languages are used a lot there?10:20
Khertan_n810economic situation is a bit bad at this time in france10:20
Khertan_n810language in france ? french :)10:20
moontigercomputer languages i mean :)~10:21
Khertan_n810java is the hype thing10:21
moontigeroh god ... not java :|10:21
Khertan_n810yep i hate that things too10:22
AStormKhertan_n810: impossible10:22
aspectI thought eiffel would be the go in france :)10:22
AStormit's nowhere near as bad as in Poland10:22
moontigerits all java middle-ware10:22
AStormwell, it is Java suckage here too10:22
moontigeraspect, hahaha10:22
AStormor .NET suckage10:22
Khertan_n810there is also many sap / abap need10:22
moontigereeeesh10:22
AStormor low-level hardware :D10:22
moontigerhmmmmmmmmmmm that sounds fun10:23
Khertan_n810.net too is well payed10:23
moontiger.NOT sucks but i can do it10:23
AStormbtw, I need to find something good for our "work practice" at uni10:23
AStormmoontiger: sucks less than Java10:23
moontigertrue dat10:23
Khertan_n810eiffel have never been used10:23
AStorm.nyet is the official codename10:23
Khertan_n810except in univesity10:23
moontigereiffel is just a teaching language10:23
AStormKhertan_n810: and at Ericsson10:23
moontigerericsson uses eiffel??10:24
AStormused10:24
Khertan_n810seriously ?10:24
AStormthey created it10:24
moontigerummmmm really?10:24
Khertan_n810this why it s a  so poor language10:24
AStormcheck history10:24
AStormit's unfinished ;P10:24
Khertan_n810it s not started10:24
AStormyeah sure10:25
moontigerBertrand Meyer.10:25
moontigerhe invented it10:25
AStormok, so, I want something in low-level programming or firmware10:25
moontigeras a demonstration of pure OO concepts10:25
AStormdo you have something in mind? :>10:25
AStormmoontiger: person... but check who backed it10:25
Khertan_n810as400 is also used in many banks10:25
aspectAStorm: I think you're thinking of erlang :)10:25
moontigerohhhh10:25
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moontigeri think python is a good OO language10:26
Khertan_n810obj-c powa !10:26
Khertan_n810for low level stuff10:26
moontigerobj-c for iphones?10:26
moontigeris the iphone big over there?10:26
AStormARGH10:27
AStormI;m wrong10:27
AStormindeed10:27
AStormaspect: sorry for misinformation10:27
AStormmy mistake10:27
AStormI thought of Erlang10:27
AStormKhertan_n810: obj-c isn't bad, but it's a bit... lacking10:27
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AStormso, I need some fun environment which can sign the pointless "practice contract" with WUT10:31
AStormwhich is 3-4 papers10:31
Khertani m back :)10:31
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Khertani m at office now :)10:32
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KhertanAStorm: lacking of what ,10:32
Khertan?10:32
AStormKhertan: of some nice syntax10:32
AStormyou see, message-passing isn't bad, but isn't convenient in many cases10:32
KhertanAStorm: this ... just a point of view10:32
AStormyes10:33
Khertani like it ...10:33
AStormI like it too, more than C++10:33
AStormwhich has too much syntax, which is hacky10:33
Khertanbut now i mainly use python ... it s clear that i prefer it ... but for low level stuff ...10:33
KhertanAStorm: personnaly i hate c++10:33
Khertanit s not a language ... it s a hack10:33
AStormfor low-level stuff, nothing beats C augmented with assembly10:33
Khertanand i hate read or maintain source made by other10:34
AStormsome are nice, like Qt10:34
KhertanQt ?10:34
AStormbut it's exception, not norm10:34
Khertanit s not a language ...10:34
AStormI mean, code written by others ;P10:34
Khertanjust a framework ... (which i don t like)10:34
Khertanah :)10:34
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Khertannever see the qt source10:35
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AStormI guess I'll have to delve into Symbian and work with our resident master ;P10:36
AStormget some connections10:36
moontigeri like c++ :)10:36
moontigerlove asm too10:36
AStormmoontiger: you either don't know it, or don't use it (C++)10:37
AStormtry implementing a general anything in C++ :>10:37
moontigerhmmmm well ive been using it for quite a few years now10:37
AStormtemplates *suck*10:37
moontigeri used to write trading systems in c++10:37
AStormwriting iterators sucks too10:37
moontigertemplates are great if you use them properly10:37
AStormmoontiger: ... they suck at their purpose, which is writing generic code10:38
AStormit's much too hard for its worth10:38
moontigerwell thats cos a lot of people cant write good iterators10:38
moontigerso they use stl10:38
AStormbecause writing iterators is hard10:38
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AStormguess why :>10:38
moontigerits not really that hard10:38
AStorm4 functions would be enough10:39
moontigerfirst last next prev10:39
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AStormmoontiger: yeah, so, give me a clean iterator example10:41
AStormwhich will work over tree nodes10:41
AStorm(linked nodes)10:41
AStormgeneric10:41
AStormI lost a day doing that10:42
moontigersigly linked or doubly linked nodes?10:42
moontigersingly even10:42
AStormuhm, it's a tree10:42
AStormwith parent and child nodes10:42
AStormnext is the next child10:42
AStormprev is the parent10:42
AStormfirst and last are tricky :)10:42
moontigerhmmmmm i would prolly use recursion.... but that has problems10:43
AStormany order of walk is acceptable10:43
aspectnext is child or sibling?10:43
AStormin-order, pre-order and post-order10:43
AStormaspect: any is acceptable :>10:43
AStormI prefer top-to-bottom, = in-order10:44
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aspectAStorm: no, I'm asking about your ADT. If you only have next/prev pointers it's not a tree afaict10:44
AStormthere is no "sibling" pointer10:44
AStormaspect: it has only parent and child pointers10:44
AStormstandard tree10:44
aspectok, I misunderstood what you said earlier10:44
AStormmultiple children10:44
moontigerahhhhhhhhh so not a binary tree10:45
* aspect doesn't hold enough c++ in his head to write the code anyway :)10:45
aspectit's trivial in scheme :)10:45
AStormmoontiger: if it were a binary tree, I could make it an array10:45
AStormthat is simple10:45
AStormaspect: it's trivial in Python too10:45
atulHi all, How do I install apt-pkg inside scratch-box10:45
atul?10:45
moontigerexcept arrays have different performance metrics to binary trees10:45
AStormatul: it should be there10:45
AStormmoontiger: no, different memory metrics10:46
aspectAStorm: not as trivial as in Scheme, I'll bet :)10:46
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AStormaspect: close enough, but you're right :>10:46
* moontiger thinks about it10:47
AStorma specialization of the tree will walk an SQL database10:47
atulAStorm:= but when my application donig ./configure it is giving error message like "checking apt-pkg/configuration.h usability... no" why so ?10:47
* Khertan laught as he use a high level language :)10:47
AStormatul: it's probably missing apt-dev or sth10:47
AStormKhertan: I would too, I prefer Python also10:48
moontigerwell the trick is knowing if you have a sibling or need to cross a boundary10:48
AStormBUT stupid companies prefer C++10:48
atulAStorm:= what to do ? Do I need to install apt-dev ?10:48
AStormmoontiger: You have to move upwards to get a sibling10:48
moontigerright10:48
* aspect doesn't mind low level languages when they're appropriate .. but c++ suffers from layer upon layer of ad-hoc greenspunning10:48
AStormnote, siblings "don't exist" unless you prod them10:48
aspectyou keep a stack. isn't that how trees are always traversed?10:48
AStorm(as I said, I want to walk an SQL database representation of the tree)10:48
AStormaspect: it's too heavy10:49
moontigeryah10:49
AStormI want to close unneeded nodes10:49
aspectAStorm: ?10:49
AStormaspect: nodes have to be "open" only when needed10:49
AStormthe representation will be used for A*10:49
aspectdid I say anything about opening nodes?10:49
AStormno, but you said you want to keep everything on a stack10:50
AStormso can't free it if required10:50
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aspectto visit a subtree you visit its root, if there's more than 1 child you push the root paired with the integer 1, then visit the subtree rooted at its first child10:50
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moontigerin what context would you use such a DS10:50
moontiger?10:50
aspectif you can traverse a tree without keeping track of the info I'm putting on the stack, you should write a paper10:51
AStormaspect: I want to lose the already traversed tree, thank you10:51
AStormlet me say again10:51
aspectso you push the remaining children10:51
AStormI want a breadth-first iterator10:51
AStormremaining children, yes10:51
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AStormbut w/o "loading" them10:51
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AStormmake that into C++ iterator10:51
aspectwell, yes10:51
aspectyou can push a pointer/reference/handle etc without dereferencing it. that would be standard practice I'd assume. unless you're a javanaut ;-)10:52
AStormaspect: this is correct, problem is passing the stack to the iterators10:52
AStormit either has to be global, or kept in some root structure10:52
AStormtree-global10:53
aspectI'd have assumed it's internal to the iterator10:53
AStormnow, let's say I want to have concurrent access10:53
aspectbut then, I don't care to know this much about c++ :-)10:53
AStorm;P10:53
atulAStorm:= what to do ? Do I need to install apt-dev ??10:53
AStormatul: I think so10:53
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atulHI all "checking apt-pkg/configuration.h usability... no" How to resolve this ?10:53
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AStormatul: ... you need development headers for apt10:54
AStormthis means you want apt-dev10:54
atulAStorm:= I tryied that but it is failing10:54
AStorminstall it10:54
AStormhuh how?10:54
moontigerAStorm, when would you use a sturcture like this?10:54
AStormmoontiger: breadth-first traversal? for A* (with minor modifications, like sorting on load)10:54
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AStormso, I need to keep an iterator-local stack10:55
moontigersorting on load? wouldnt a simple binary tree do that?10:55
AStorm...10:55
AStormit's a stack actually10:56
AStormhow do I pass it10:56
AStormit should be iterator-local10:56
moontigerpass it to what?10:57
moontigerim obviously not getting something here10:57
AStormeither to the recursive or non-recursive iterator10:57
AStormactually, I could do a non-recursive specialized iterator10:57
AStormbut I want a generic one10:57
moontigerif you use recursion dont you risk stack over-run?10:58
AStormgeneric breadth-first on a tree which is expanded in each iteration10:58
AStormmoontiger: well, it doesn't have to be recursive10:58
AStormjust generic10:58
AStormtrick is tree is extended in each iteration10:59
moontigerim not getting the purpose of the structure so its hard for me to get my head around the problem10:59
moontigerahhhhhhhhh10:59
moontigeron load10:59
moontigerok10:59
moontigeri get it10:59
AStormalso, there may be tree inserts too10:59
moontigerdo the parent nodes know how many child nodes they have?10:59
AStormhow many, yes, but you can't know how many children the children have w/o loading them11:00
AStormwhich is expensive11:00
moontigerright11:00
moontigerwhat did you come up with?11:01
AStormI died at it11:01
AStormin Python, it took a day to write the whole app11:01
AStormbecause I can dynamically vary the structure in Python11:02
moontigeressentially each node would have to be a linked list (in c++)11:02
AStormthis is wrong11:02
AStormit has to be a tree11:03
AStormnot tree of linked lists11:03
moontigerhmmmm11:03
AStormthere are no horizontal links11:03
JaffaMorning, all11:03
moontigerok11:03
AStormok, I lied11:03
moontigerinteresting problem11:03
AStormthere are horizontal links11:03
AStormit's apparently not a tree11:04
AStormbut a generic graph11:04
moontigerthen its a "tree" of linked lists... each child node points to its parent node11:05
AStormuhm, it's a graph, no linked lists11:05
moontigerach!!11:05
AStormit's a graph with one root node11:05
moontigerright ... but it has child nodes11:05
AStormthere can be only one parent11:05
AStormbut there can be loops11:05
AStorm:>11:05
moontigerie, a list each of which point to their immediate parent11:05
moontigerand so on down11:06
moontigerim confused why that wouldnt work?11:06
AStormmight be, yes11:06
AStormnote, there can be loops11:06
AStormyou don't want to traverse them indefinitely11:06
moontigerthat would be checking for circular refs i presume11:06
AStormso a stack is needed11:06
AStormyes11:06
moontigera stack with only as many slots to hold to max potential loop size11:07
AStormactually, in this algorithm, cycles are beneficial, they cut traversal time11:07
AStormmoontiger: with infinitely many slots11:07
AStormso dynamically allocated11:07
moontigerright ... i just realized that11:07
moontigeryes11:07
AStormand with nodes closed when not needed anymore11:07
AStormso, a GC'd stack11:07
moontigerbut you only have to keep track of the current path so to speak11:07
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moontigersounds interesting tho :)11:08
moontigeri like messing with data structures11:08
AStormmoontiger: current path and next possible hits :)11:10
moontigeroh yah .. i see that11:10
AStormthe hard part is the GC'd stack11:10
moontigerhmmmmmmm yes11:11
AStormhigh-level languages give you cheap and easy GC11:11
KhertanGC ?11:11
moontigerwell ... its easy if it can take 4 days to run ;)11:11
Khertangarbage collector :)11:11
Khertan;)11:11
moontigergarbage collection11:11
Khertansorry :11:11
Khertan:)11:11
moontigerAStorm, but it isnt too hard to write your own stack allocator11:12
yacoobhm... what do you people use for storing passwords on the tablet?11:12
moontigerfiles?11:12
yacoobthat's very... generic :)11:12
moontigersorry .... its late :)11:12
* moontiger is feeling generic11:13
yacoobmoontiger, but do you mean that you just keep stuff in a text file and gpg it in/out when needed?11:13
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moontigeryacoob, actually i dont know ... i was thinking about it today myself ... right now its a home made enc stuffed in a database11:14
AStormyacoob: actually, I keep passwords in my head11:14
AStormit works11:14
moontigerbut i would like to use mcrypt or something11:14
lbtlook for and maybe port passwordsafe11:15
lbtcounterpane version11:15
yacoobboth password safe and gpasman suck in a different ways :)11:15
lbtyeah, security is like that11:15
yacoobon palm I was using cryptopad, and someone had a noble goal of making a similar app, but apparently got devoured by pack of angry rhinos some time ago11:16
moontigeri'll add it to my list when i get some time11:16
moontigerand i'll watch out for hungry rhinos11:16
moontiger;)11:16
AStormtrain your memory11:17
AStormand make good passwords11:17
yacoobmoontiger, if you'd be aiming for anything like that: I'm actually looking for storing notes, not only passwords. That's why both of existing software suck.11:17
yacoobAStorm, good luck memorizing pgp revocation certificate :D11:17
AStormyacoob: storing notes == maemopad+11:17
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yacoobdoes it encrypt them in any way?11:18
AStormyacoob: well, that I keep on a safe CD11:18
AStormno11:18
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moontigeris there no encryption functionality on maemo?11:20
yacoobthere's plenty, it's lack of the userfriendly interface that aches11:20
XTLThere must be. Any particular kind?11:20
moontigeri mean a programmer lib that i can use to make a simple app11:20
* Khertan have tryed to port pycripto to maemo ... to be able to port revelation11:21
AStormgpg is there, right?11:21
moontigerany luck khertan?11:21
Khertannope ... i ve scratched my scratchbox install :)11:21
XTLThe usual ssl libs are also there11:21
Khertanbut if someone make it available in extras-devel i would be happy :)11:21
Khertanhttp://oss.codepoet.no/revelation/11:22
XTLand libcrypt11:22
moontigeris pycrypto just a recompile away?11:22
KhertanGTK+ 2.4, GNOME 2.6, Python 2.3,11:23
Khertan        pygtk 2.4, gnome-python 2.6, pycrypto 1.9, and Cracklib11:23
Khertanmoontiger > it should be11:23
yacoobhttps://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=cryptochest is there, although it looks a bit abandoned11:25
moontigerok well i canhave a go at that ... i have a scratchbox running still11:25
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moontigerim off to bed ... im tired ... nn all ... thnx for the conversations :)11:28
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floriangood morning11:38
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GDEhi11:54
GDEis there a way to transfer files from my PC to the 810 via LAN?11:55
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GDEwifi11:55
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XTLSure. Pick any one.12:00
GDEpardon?12:01
XTLIow, whatever sw you have on both. sch/sftp/http/ftp/tftp/rcp/uucp/netcat+rzsz...12:01
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XTLIt's just a network connection :912:01
XTLAnd most work in either push or pull12:01
XTL.. both ways around12:01
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GDEthanks12:02
GDEis there a good ftp client for the maemo?12:03
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XTLGood and ftp don't go together :)12:04
GDE:(12:05
GDEwhich way would be the easiest to setup? :p12:05
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usicowsubversion isnt available in the normal 'extras' repository, but I can see it at http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/s/subversion/. Is that something which isnt ready to be used or something? (Im new to maemo).12:34
lcuk2usicow, i use svn from my tablet12:35
aquatixlcuk2: on a fat partition?12:35
lcuk2chinook is the previous release of the os which might explain why you cant directly put it on12:35
lcuk2aquatix, what does fat have to do with it?  but no its mmc1 which is an ext2 partition12:36
usicowlcuk2: ahh, I see.. ok so how did you install svn?12:36
lcuk2i have chinook :)12:36
usicowah12:36
usicow:)12:36
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usicowit wont work on Diablo?12:36
lcuk2apt-get install svn-specific-name-whatever-it-was12:36
lcuk2it should12:36
lcuk2add the repo and try :P12:36
aquatixlcuk2: well, i tried checking out a repository and i got some errors about locks iirc12:37
usicowok, also is there a way I can just download the .deb file and install it without adding the repository?12:37
aquatixapt-get install subversion12:37
lcuk2aquatix, it doesnt complain for me - works nicely and ive checked out a number of rojects and pushed changes back12:37
aquatixusicow: yes12:37
lcuk2usicow, just download from within the folder you posted12:38
lcuk2and try it12:38
aquatixusicow: just download the .deb and on the tablet do "dpkg -i subversion_blah.deb"12:38
aquatix[as root]12:38
lcuk2or double tap from the filemanager ;)12:38
aquatixah yeah :)12:38
lcuk2and let the isntaller do its stuff12:38
usicowaquatix: great thanks12:38
aquatixusicow: and what lcuk2 says ;)12:38
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* lcuk hadnt noticed he wasnt logged in12:39
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usicowis there a nice program for maemo that shows CPU usage?12:49
AStormloadapplet?12:51
AStormalso, there's top12:51
AStormand probably someone could build htop12:52
lcukusicow, yes, but its top secret and closed source and you cannot even have the binary for it or even see pictures of it12:52
lcuk(https://garage.maemo.org/projects/load-applet/)12:52
yacoobin fact, one of Nokia associates will be with lcuk shortly to terminate him.12:52
lcukdamn12:52
AStormhell, they'll kill ITT and Google for it12:52
lcukit was worth it in the end, information should be free12:52
AStormLong Live Freedom!12:53
yacoobtoo bad load-applet doesn't show more stats in the drop down, though.12:53
lcukhold on, someone at the door12:53
AStormhmmh?12:53
yacoobhm, I can simply make a patch... :)12:53
lcukyes you could, if you do decide to dive in, would you find out if it tirelessly updates itself even if the device is locked and screen turned off12:54
lcukcos it would be really wasteful to show information to nothing12:54
AStormheh, it needs some dbus support to disable itself12:54
lcuki had a thought about it being a battery drain when i last had it installed12:55
AStormno, it's not a major battery drain I found out12:55
usicowload-applet drains the battery?12:55
AStormnot by any noticeable amount12:55
lcukbut because its tirelessly ticking over and refreshing itself its doing quite a lot12:55
AStormit's ticking rarely enough12:56
lcukit was just a thought12:56
AStormso it doesn't speed up CPU12:56
AStormdoesn't wake it often enough from C312:56
lcukno but it pushes data to the lcd every second - does the lcd chip have to wake back up to accept the data even if the screen is off12:56
AStormno, it doesn't apparently12:57
lcukand what does it use for its sleep cycle12:57
AStormat least not when dsme is active12:57
AStormit uses sleep(1);12:57
AStormthat is, one second12:57
lcukall i was asking was whether it does actually say "ok, the user has display turned off, maybe i should hold off on updating12:57
AStormit doesn't12:58
Khertansomeone have successfully use a usb mouse with an n8x0 ?12:58
AStormbut it doesn't take a lot of power either12:58
AStormreally, I should try to measure both stress and wait times12:58
gomiamKhertan: not me. I don't even know how the mouse pointer would show up.12:58
AStormyou just have to replace the invisible cursor ;P12:58
lcukgomiam, the theme for maemo DOES have a mouse pointer, its just a transparant square - it can be replaced with a proper one12:59
AStormKhertan: I was too lazy to do that12:59
lcukinfact, sometimes you see the x pointer12:59
AStormKhertan: it requires a powered hub most likely too12:59
Khertanyep ... i'm just thinking to use my n8x0 with an external display an usb keyboard and a mouse12:59
Khertan:)12:59
gomiamAStorm: probably not. If a keyboard can work directly, a mouse energy consumption shouldn't be a worry, methinks.13:00
lcuknot all keyboards work, check the Ma rating on the device you wanna use13:00
Khertangomiam: optical mouse use more power than a keyboard :)13:00
lcukthen get a ball mouse13:00
Khertanthe Ma rating ?13:00
lcukpower13:00
Khertani ll use a usb hub13:00
lcuk100ma max current draw from usb OTG host13:01
AStormpowered hub, too13:01
AStormlcuk: I suspect if you push it, the USB could provide 200 mA13:01
Khertanas it will be too use at home13:01
lcukno astorm, it wont13:01
lcukit has current limiters afiak13:01
AStormit will, if you force it13:01
AStormyes, it does13:01
AStormcan disable these13:01
gomiamanyway, I don't really mind. I already have a USB ultra-slim hub and its power source :-)13:02
AStormgoodie13:02
lcukhmmm, its official spec and you cant go beyond it13:02
Khertanand about vga<->usb ....13:02
AStormlcuk: yes, it's a hack13:02
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AStormKhertan: definitely more than 100 mA13:02
AStormand you need a driver13:02
Khertanwhat is the state of the driver project ?13:02
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Khertanyou know the name of the project ?13:03
lcukbbl13:03
Khertani m looking for it on itt ... but it s painfull13:03
AStormKhertan: the driver is there, but not built for maemo13:05
AStormsis-something driver13:06
AStormprobably sisusb or something like it13:06
AStormas it's the only vga<->usb I know of13:06
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Khertannoone have tryed to use it on a nit yet ?13:06
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Khertanxsisusb13:08
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Khertanhum ... to mirroring screen it use vncserver13:14
Khertan89,69 the adaptator ... ouch13:15
KhertanEuros13:15
Kegetysyou can get one for ~34e from dealextreme13:16
Kegetys3513:16
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Khertanhum i don't know it13:27
AFBN810Khertan I didn't get that email13:27
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KhertanAFBN810 ?13:28
AFBN810The mcontacts one its andrewfblack13:29
KhertanKegetys > i don't find it on dealextrem13:29
KhertanAFBN810: ah sorry don't recognize you13:29
KhertanAFBN810: i ve send it yesterday with modest13:29
Kegetyshttp://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.483813:29
Kegetysseems the price has gone up a bit since I ordered, but much cheaper anyway13:29
AFBN810andrewfblack@gmail.com?13:30
Khertanyep13:30
Khertani ll send it you again ...13:31
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KhertanKegetys: do u use it with a nit ?13:31
AFBN810do you remember the email subject so I can search for it might be in spam13:31
KegetysKhertan: it hasn't arrived yet13:31
Khertanas it s not the same as the tested one ...13:32
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Kegetysas far as I can tell it is the same one, same chipset etc.13:32
KegetysI should get mine tomorrow hopefully so I can test it then13:33
Khertanif it s the same chipset it should be ok13:33
lcuk\o/ w000t i'm going on a european vacation - i get to see 3 different germany cities on this trip13:36
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* lcuk wonders why there are no direct flights from manchester to berlin13:37
lbtdoes anyone use their N800 as a car stereo?13:37
lcuklbt, wasnt there that car stats thing which would work13:37
AFBN810khertan I didn't get it can you send it out again?13:38
lcukoh crap, bbl13:38
KhertanAFBN810: yep i ll send it again ...13:38
Khertanouch dealextrem have very poor ratings ...13:39
AFBN810thanks13:39
Khertanhum ... someone know where is the x11vnc server package ?13:42
Khertancan t found it13:42
Khertanhttps://garage.maemo.org/projects/x11vnc/13:42
Khertanhum ... if i ve wrote x11 instead of x12 in google ...13:43
Kegetysratings?13:43
Khertansomeone have hacked microsoft france ? : http://www.microsoft.com/france/windows/products/windowsvista/features/experiences/music/default.mspx13:46
Khertankegetys: many review made by french customers are bad ...13:46
Khertanbye ...13:48
Kegetyswell I havent had any problems and I have ordered alot of stuff from them13:48
Kegetysthough I'm not french :P13:48
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eichiis there a way to give the gps information from a external bluetooth device from the maemo device to a third device (like mobile phone)?13:50
nomiseichi: I guess it would be possible although I doubt that it is easy with the software on the tablet. Should not be too hard though for someone with bluez knowledge.13:54
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crashanddielbt, yeah, I used my n810 for that13:55
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crashanddielbt, I had it mounted on the windscreen, audio connector into aux in for the car stereo, works fine13:56
lbtcrashanddie: just wondering if/how people had done it13:56
lbtmaybe an external usb drive?13:57
lbtdo you use canola?13:57
crashanddieyeah, I used canola13:57
crashanddiecanola is much more finger friendly, and using the stylus whilst driving is a big no-no13:57
lbtnot seen canola yet - just installing13:58
* ariya thinks canola2 rocks13:59
KegetysI prefer mediabox13:59
crashanddieI never used an external hard drive on my NIT, but I did have an external drive which was directly connected to the stereo13:59
lbtI'll see what the sound quality is like on a decent hifi...14:00
lbtI've not even listened to an mp3 on it yet ;)14:00
* lbt really must actually *use* nut14:01
glasssome car-radios do a2dp14:01
lbt<grin>14:01
lbtI need a decent amp that takes pcm over wifi...14:01
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lbtoops - gotta go ... bbl14:02
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lardmanmorning all14:04
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usicowwhen I open an xterm window, I'd like it to be full screen - as in no typing assistant or anything.. just a 100% full screen text terminal window. Is that possible? I cant seem to get rid of the typing assistant thing.14:11
lbtporting.... maemo is based on an upstream debian. Which one? I can't put the upstream deb into my scratchbox (obvioulsy) but I should be able to put the deb-src in...14:14
XTLYou mean the esc-tab-... line?14:14
XTLusicow: menu/view/show toolbar/fullscreen off14:15
usicowXTL: nah, I worked out how to remove that one.. its one that Im seeing below that.. all it says on the right hand side is 'abc'.14:15
XTLWas it fn-space that should popdown that14:15
Kegetysyou can remove that entirely by disabling the preidiction & dictionary things from control panel14:15
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usicowXTL: doesnt seem to work.. but at least you know of something that is capable of removing it :) I'll hunt around more.. any idea what that bar is called by the way?14:17
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XTLusicow: Can't recall. It doesn't appear on mine. Did you have a look at Kegetys's setting?14:18
usicowis kegety a person? :)14:21
Kegetyshuh?14:21
lbtmaybe another way - what version of debian is diablo based on? If any?14:22
usicowohhh sorry Kegetys I missed what you said.14:22
usicowhmm14:22
usicowthanks. I'll disbale it.14:22
usicowperfect :)14:23
XTLlbt: There's an answer to that buried somewhere in mailing list, itt or docs. I can't recall.14:23
XTLA somewhat older version, I think :)14:23
lbtI've been digging!!!14:23
XTLI don't see it immediately either. :)14:23
lbtI guess it is old - which is fine14:23
lbtdid you catch my objective?14:24
XTLBut you should be able to pull from any upstream you want and rebuild.14:24
lbtto add a deb-src to scratchbox14:24
lbtfor portin14:24
lbtg14:24
lbtyes but14:24
lbtI want to port autofs14:24
XTLYes. I've done that for random backports from testing to stable sometimes.14:24
lbtwhich depends on libraries14:24
lbtand I want to minimise version conflicts14:24
XTLThere may be problems, of course, but it should essentially work.14:24
lbtI've done it for ddd14:25
lbtquite a chain - but simple14:25
XTLThe libraries you build against should match the tablet.14:25
lbtbut then I end up building more libraries14:25
XTLEither they come from the sdk (match) or you built them yourself (match)14:25
lbtand have build-dep version issues14:25
lbtwhen I'm 5 deep14:25
XTLIf the sw you want demands too new libs and you don't want to port those, you'd need to adapt the package/sw to use older libs.14:26
lbtor just use the older version (which is probably fine)14:26
lbtwhich is where I came in...14:26
lbt:D14:26
XTL:)14:26
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lbtI think my proposal is a safe way to build any debian package without needing to 'adapt'14:27
lbt(non-gui of course)14:28
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Italodancewww.internettablettalk.com down?14:57
lbtno14:59
Italodancelong loading...14:59
lbtno :)14:59
lbtface it, it's you.14:59
Italodancestrange15:00
lbtare you?15:00
Italodancejust can see a white page15:00
lbtI'm getting the usual site, and I'm logged in15:01
lcukItalodance, step into the light15:02
XTLI'm getting orange boxes that slowly dissolve into the normal page15:02
XTLThough a while ago, wiki disappear and "it was just me".15:03
lcukthe orange default colours before the theme is applied are awful - it would make the site much more pleasant if they were default colours in the unstyled page15:03
XTLI think web forum users deserve all the unpleasantness you can throw at them.15:04
lcukand they return the love to you in the form of IRC trolls spamming goatse wrapped in nokia informative link clothing15:04
Italodancewho?15:04
lcukxtl15:04
Italodanceoh15:05
Italodancelol15:05
lbtXTL: I agree - web forums <shudder>15:05
lcuktheres nothing at all wrong with a forum, they work really well15:05
lbtuh huh15:05
lbtwe've had this debate15:05
lbtyou're wrong15:05
lbt<grin>15:05
lcukthough i prefer the moderated comment system slashdot has - it lets you see the signal whilst dropping the noise15:06
lbtdoes the n8x0 sound chip allow spdif out through the headphone?15:06
lcukthough they screwed that up recently by defaulting to first 25 comments - thats all people moderate on, the rest below are like a barran wasteland15:07
XTLI also find reddit's comment system pretty well-working15:10
XTLBut what you usually come against is the typical phpBB15:10
XTLMmm.. yabb.pl, was it15:11
XTLI'm sure there's a few more nightmares. But they all look the same and breed the same culture.15:12
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herwoodhi, has someone had any problems when developing own statusbar plugins?15:33
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herwoodi'm having these strange problems that when I install my own plugin, everything works fine, but if I keep on installing and uninstalling it then at some stage some of the other icons disappear.15:39
herwoodI've also had a couple of time an "effect" where the whole screen turns white and every application is minimized and after a while, everything gets reloaded.15:40
herwoodHas anyone had similar problems?15:40
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herwoodbtw, the hello world app (which also creates icon to the statusbar) works perfectly15:41
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Khertanherwood: you get that because your plugin crash15:46
Khertanmaking maemo-launcher crashing15:46
herwoodhmm15:46
Khertanso at the reboot it load a default config to avoir cycling crash15:46
herwoodI was thinking that too15:46
herwoodcould I get some log-printing somehow so I could trace the problem?15:47
Khertani use the old method of stdout in a file :)15:49
herwoodaa, ok :)15:49
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herwoodI'll try that, thanks15:49
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brontideKhertan: PyDeb or PyPackager, which is easier for uploading to extras15:59
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jottherwood: take a look at advanced-backlight, i added some debug code there to make the plugin run as standalone. see the #ifdef TEST_PLUGIN sections.16:01
jottit's easier to attach gdb this way and you don't have to worry about taking down the whole desktop :)16:02
herwoodthanks jott16:03
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Khertanbrontide: py2deb is easier to upload to diablo extras ... as you can't with pypackager :)16:11
Khertanas package should be built with autobuilder16:11
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brontidethanks, do you have a crash course for py2deb ( help / wiki / random scribbles ) or is it intuative?16:12
brontideand I assume it's meant to be run on-tablet16:12
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lbtso apt-get update gives me:16:13
lbtW: GPG error: http://www.mirrorservice.org etch Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'16:13
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lbtin scratchbox16:13
lbtI can't install debian-archive-keyring ('cos I only have their deb-src)16:14
lbtso any ideas on how to tell apt-get to JFDI16:14
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crashanddieanyone got any link to get ssh-agent to work in scratchbox ?16:15
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XTLIs there some specific problem with it?16:16
crashanddiewell, ssh-agent is the app that's supposed to remember your SSH-key passphrase, so you don't have to type it everytime16:16
crashanddieright ?16:16
XTLYou could say that16:17
yacoobI haven't yet looked for that, but perhaps someone can tell me from top of his/her head - can you use scratchbox on osx?16:17
jottlbt: you could just get the debs from debian, they should install fine.16:17
XTLyacoob: In an emulator, at least16:17
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XTLNatively, it might be tricky/fidgety16:17
crashanddieXTL, well, I have my SSH-key in ~/.ssh, but even when I explicitly launch ssh-agent, it keeps asking for my passphrase16:18
jottyacoob: in theory it could work but i think no one really tried :)16:18
crashanddieXTL, and well, my passphrase just isn't that short, and I'm getting tired of typing it everytime I compile something16:18
yacoobright :)16:18
XTLHmm..16:18
XTLI think ssh-agent is supposed to run a shell (or other command) and pass its env vars there16:19
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jottyacoob: i think the easiest way is to get the vmware image if you are on x86 :)16:19
XTLIf you just run it, it launches, prints out the env...16:20
jottcrashanddie: you could also use a ControlMaster and keep a session open :)16:20
XTLand stays in the bg. You should run the commands it outputs16:20
crashanddiejott, eh ?16:20
XTLOr run "ssh-agent bash" or such16:20
XTLand then ssh-add and the agent will do the auth for that shell's children16:21
crashanddiebleh16:21
jottcrashanddie: man ssh-config /ControlMaster :)16:21
crashanddiethat's an ugly hack16:21
XTLYou can see if ssh-agent is working by running ssh-add, I think.16:21
crashanddieyeah, ssh-add -l16:21
XTLcrashanddie: And that works?16:22
XTLI mean no "can't connect to agent"16:22
VeggenModern Linux-distributions will almost always have it running per default.16:22
crashanddieit works when I run ssh-agent bash, and run it from there16:22
crashanddiedoesn't work from the plain scratchbox16:22
lbtjott: I can - but I wanted to make life easier - adding the etch deb-src to the scratchbox makes porting easy16:23
XTLHow about if you run those export SSH_AUTH_SOCK etc lines in the scratchbox shell16:23
XTL(See that the /tmp/ socket is reachable etc)16:23
Veggenoh, scratchbox is different. but it's likely that you can try using the one from the mother-session, if you take care of getting some environment-values with you.16:23
lbtand allows dependency following that (proabably) won't break things16:23
jottlbt: yes, i have a sid deb-src :)16:23
XTLLike Veggen said, get the right env vars into the scratchbox shell16:23
crashanddieXTL, you're a genius :)16:23
crashanddieXTL, I just had to copy/paste the output16:24
XTLClose. I'm an ex sysadmin.16:24
XTL:)16:24
lbtany idea why mine won't apt-get update then?16:24
VeggenI am a current sysadmin.16:24
crashanddiesuch problem should be taken care of by scratchbox right from the start16:24
VeggenI use ssh-keys and ssh-agent *a lot*16:24
Veggen:)16:25
lbtFWIW : deb-src http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.debian.org/debian/ etch main contrib16:25
XTLIt's kind of "set up and forget", though.16:25
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VeggenXTL: well. having a couple of hundred Unix-boxes, and not same home-dir, my routine on sshing into a box the first time is, "oh? password? can't have that. *copy* relevant files into .ssh*16:26
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yacoobVeggen, don't tell me that you do it by hand with >100 boxes...16:27
crashanddiewell, if he got 1 box per week16:29
crashanddieI don't see the problem16:29
crashanddiegotta be buggered though if you notice your SSH key is a debian-pooped key16:29
yacoobcrashanddie, key gets compromised, do the key dance again... :)16:29
jottwell you could easily do something like cat .ssh/id_dsa.pub | ssh foo tee -a .ssh/authorized_keys216:29
jott:=16:29
lbtor scp (!)16:30
crashanddiejott, or maybe easier: scp ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub user@box:/.ssh/authorized_keys16:30
jottscp can append? :)16:30
crashanddieI thought it could16:31
lbtdon't need to - you *want* to replace16:31
jottif you *want* that's a different story.16:31
lbtyou just don't want to get it wrong :)16:31
lbtanyhow fix my apt problem16:31
lbtgrrr16:31
crashanddiewe're talking about SSH now16:32
jottbut i have different private keys :)16:32
yacoobthat's why you should just use cfengine or puppet... :)16:32
crashanddieapt discussion is planned around 4PM16:32
lbtOk, for the backlog then....16:32
lbt:)16:32
yacoobcrashanddie, when is punch and pie?16:32
lbtI tried a sid deb-src and got the same problem (in case I had cache corruption or summit)16:33
lbt4:15 if you fix my apt16:33
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jottlbt: why not just install the keyring? ;)16:34
lbtI don't have gpg16:34
lbtI'd like to minimise the impact on the scratchbox16:35
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lbtI suppose I could add etch 'deb' and dl the keyring to sb and then remove the deb line16:35
crashanddieI some cancer, be back in a bit16:36
lbtbut then I'd have to dl their gpg too16:36
lbtso I've got a really mixed up sb environment at that point16:36
lbtugh16:36
lbtthis was supposed to be "how do I setup a clean porting ability on sb"16:37
jottjust add the deb-src and there you go :P16:37
lbtA: add this file to the sources.list.d and tell it to ignore gpg sigs16:37
jottdeb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free16:37
lbtI *did* add the line16:37
jottworks fine here16:37
jottno problems16:37
lbtand I get16:37
lbtW: GPG error: http://www.mirrorservice.org sid Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'16:37
lbtW: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems16:37
jottlbt: so?16:38
jottlbt: you can't verify the packages. but it's not *that* important.16:38
lbtit didn't appear to properly update the local db16:39
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lbtgoddam it I'm an idiot - *NOW* it's working16:39
lbtsorry16:39
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rmrfchikin what package I can find cfdisk or fdisk?16:50
rmrfchik...or other program for partition management16:50
trenkarmrfchik: sfdisk in busybox16:51
Stskeepsrmrfchik: i have a cfdisk.deb that's kinda hacked together as well16:53
Stskeepsrmrfchik: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/dependancies/maemo/cfdisk.deb16:53
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arachnistQermit tez jesteś fajny *_*16:54
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rmrfchikthanks16:56
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RST38hBOO, all17:28
Khertanbrontide > no doc yet, a command line tool ... but there will be a doc in a near future ... at least for the summit :)17:30
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kaiehi. i think some of the people here are working on the qt port of ff. i tried the binary, won't start up to me, symbol lookup error17:47
kaielet me know if you want the full error message17:47
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lbtRST38h: <eek>18:05
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andrewfblackHello18:37
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GeneralAntillesHowdy18:39
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MakeGhoI can only find source distribution for maemo-latex :/ is there no binary one for n810?18:57
kruttMakeGho: how much did you pay for your 810?18:58
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MakeGhoaround 380 €, how so?18:59
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Mekanybody know of any packages of (parts of) boost for maemo?19:15
jottMek: i think i have them floating around somewhere19:16
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Mekjott: ah, that would be nice... I can't get boost to install...19:18
jottMek: what's the problem?19:18
Mekjott: 'bjam install' crashes (or causes qemu to crash)19:19
jottqemu is very fragile...19:20
jotttry to use the cvs-m version.19:20
jottbtw. qemu was the reason why cmake crashed.19:20
Mekah, okay :)19:21
jottbut in this case the other way around (0.8.2-sb2 seems to work but not cvs-m)19:21
jottit really stinks :/19:21
Mekhow do I install a different qemu/tell scratchbox to use that one? :)19:21
jottlook at /scratchbox/user/$USER/targets19:22
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jottand /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin19:22
jottcvs-m should come with the default installation.19:22
Mekah, yes; so just changing the .config to refer to that one should make it use that? (after restarting scratchbox)?19:23
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jottyou don't need to restart, it's parsed on each prompt :)19:23
jottor rather after it.19:24
jottbefore executing something19:24
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jottMek: other than that http://outpo.st/boost/19:25
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Mekah, that is a lot easier than building them myself :)19:27
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jottyeah in the end it should be build by the builder anyway :)19:27
jottbut that's another adventure  :)19:28
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Khertan_n810hi ... again ...19:31
Khertan_n810someone know where i can get the defoma lib for abiword \19:31
Khertan_n810?19:31
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andrewfblackHey Khertan19:33
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andrewfblackumm looks like apple is getting sued because the IPhone 3G is twice as fast as the Regular IPone like they prommised it would be lol19:40
Khertan_n810twice as fast too lost network too19:40
Khertan_n810:)19:40
jotti wonder if they get/got sued for "Half the price." too, as it's pure BS :)19:41
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mutu_rockoe sergio19:41
andrewfblacklol I'm sure that is next jott19:42
sergioeo19:42
Khertan_n810can t code app in python19:42
mutu_rockcomo te va19:42
Khertan_n810no interpreted language is accepted by apple on iphone19:42
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Khertan_n810no possibility to code onboard19:43
Khertan_n810so really not interesting19:43
jottbut it has working 3d drivers :P19:43
mutu_rocksergio donde estas19:44
andrewfblackyeah I had a friend who got a free itouch from going on work trip he came home same week I got my N810 and he was so excited until he saw my Nokia lol19:44
Khertan_n810useless if we can t use it19:44
Khertan_n810haha19:45
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andrewfblackhey Khertan did you get that email sent back out19:46
sergiomutu_rock trabajando19:48
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kaiewould you mind if I do some brainstorming? mobile phones still don't have nice cameras, they are still toys (no real flash, no nice optical zoom)19:51
kaielet's say I'm travelling with a digital camera, that doesn't use SD cards, and the n810, only19:52
kaieis there any way to transfer files from the camera (in my case XD) to the n810?19:52
Veggenyes.19:52
andrewfblackcard read?19:52
andrewfblackI havn't tried my USB card reader on my tablet but I would think it would work19:52
VeggenThe n810 can do USB host mode. You might need to provide power, but a powered hub  can do that.19:52
Khertan_n810andrewfblack: yep you should have already get it19:53
Khertan_n810as i send it a 13pm19:53
andrewfblackok its ok my personal email at home I'll check it when I get home.19:53
kaieoh really. I didn't know that. hmm. so I should go and hunt for a matching cable and it might immediately work?19:54
Veggenkaie: yes, it might.19:54
andrewfblackI havn't found a way to check gmail at work yet19:54
Veggenkaie: you need a small app to change to USB host mode on the n810 too.19:54
andrewfblackkaie : worse case you might need a powered USB hub I would think but card reader shouldn't pull anymore power then a USB Stick19:55
VeggenThe n810 provides *some* power, but not too much. It *might* be enough for your camera.19:55
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Khertan_n810andrefblack: just in case i m uploding it in experiment downloads of my website19:56
Khertan_n810s/uplodind/uploading19:57
kaieok thanks. I'll go and see if I can find an usb-male to usb-male adapter19:57
andrewfblackkhertan_n810 cool19:58
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Khertan_n810mcontacts.tar.gz19:58
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andrewfblackcool, btw I noticed my custom theme doesn't look that good on mcalendars I guess its becuase i use 20 for my large font and I guess thats what the buttons use in mcalendar20:00
lbtso I need getopt to run ucf to install autofs.... that comes from util-linux -- so how does that interact with busybox?20:01
Khertan_n81020px for text button ?20:01
Khertan_n810i think many other gtk gui may be broken20:02
andrewfblackwell on theme maker only choose two font sizes Small font and Large font20:02
andrewfblackI guess buttons use the large font one20:02
Khertan_n810arf ... edit the gtkrc manually20:03
Khertan_n810it ll be better20:03
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andrewfblackyeah I am going to do that because I want to add custom icons and I think I have to do it by editing gtkrc someone said20:03
crashanddie\o/20:04
crashanddieCloudReader is finished :D20:04
qwerty12Cloudreader... Hmm, can I smoke that?20:04
crashanddieyou're too young to smoke20:04
lbtso I need getopt to run ucf to install autofs.... that comes from util-linux -- so how does that interact with busybox?20:04
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Khertan_n810'ALARM_EVENT_CONNECTED20:05
Khertan_n810sorry wrong window20:05
lcukcrashanddie, so you have been a busy geezer, what does it do20:05
qwerty12crashanddie: Hey, you gave me GPS coordinates for France :P20:05
crashanddieqwerty12, so ?20:05
qwerty12lbt: util-linux conflicts with busybox. Or rather the other way around20:05
lcukhang on a minute, hes too young to take part in an illegal activity?20:06
qwerty12crashanddie: sudden change of mind? ;)20:06
lcukwhat age do you have to be to do something illegal?20:06
lbtis it safe to remove bb and install util-linux?20:06
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crashanddieqwerty12, I gave you GPS coordinates, does that mean I condone your acts ?20:06
lcukhell yeah20:06
qwerty12lbt: sure. just install corelinux, bash2 etc20:06
qwerty12crashanddie: just helping me with them right?20:07
crashanddielcuk, only what it's supposed to, get the feed for the cloud, display the cloud, wait for user input to select the tag, retrieve the feed for a given tag, wait for user input to select a story, open browser to story, sit in the background until the browser is closed20:07
* qwerty12 is just taking the piss anyway, jam :)20:07
lcuknice :)20:07
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crashanddielcuk, I optimised the kinetic scrolling, and I have dynamic memory allocation20:08
lcukeven nicer :)20:08
crashanddielcuk, I just need to add one last "loading" screen when the browser is loading, and then find out how to get the screen resolution20:08
crashanddieand the app will work in landscape/portrait mode20:08
lcuki gave you the sdl_ function call you need to do that20:08
crashanddieyeah, only for SDL 1.2.1020:08
crashanddieand we have 1.2.820:08
lcukhmm ok then20:09
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lcukyou can talk to x20:09
crashanddieYeah, I probably will20:09
lbtqwerty12: removing busybox and getting the wrong apps to replace it sounds like a great way to prepare for a re-flash... I can't see 'corelinux' although I have installed bash220:12
lbtapt-cache showpkg busybox shows a lot of interdependencies20:13
qwerty12lbt: oops, I meant coreutils. There is probably more you need to get like procps etc. It's in the SDK repo20:13
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Khertan_n810back again20:16
Khertan_n810is there someone that understand how alarmd work ?20:16
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lbthmm - so I see conflicing info on this... some suggests that I can install coreutils and it'll replace any busybox links20:17
lbtbut I get "Note, selecting busybox for regex âcoreutilsâ"20:17
lbtsigh - I just want "getopt"20:17
Khertan_n810if i set flag CONNECTED does it wake up device only when connected or also when there is a new connection after the time up ?20:17
lbtI hate having to dick around for hours to run a shell script20:18
Khertan_n810parse args manually20:18
Anunakinlbt, rebuild coreutil package for not remove busybox20:18
Khertan_n810or do script with python  :)20:19
lbtAnunakin: there was chat on -dev about just getting rid of bb20:19
lbtif someone is doing that then I'll pass20:19
AnunakinI made some .debs... for bash, grep, ...20:19
Khertan_n810no alarmd expert here ?20:19
Anunakinlbt: but it -dev can break you maemo20:20
lbtyes - I wanted to avoid that...20:20
lbt(I meant the -dev mail list BTW...)20:20
lbtEero Tamminen <eero.tamminen@nokia.com> writes: Let's get rid of busybox already.20:21
lbtgood man :)20:21
gregorovius_is the maemo-announce mailing list worth subscribing? it seems to be completely dead20:21
yacoobspeaking of which.20:21
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yacoobquestion to those of you that have some developer connections: how would you rate Nokia's attitude to the community? And their plans, responsivness, ideas...?20:22
lbtah, too hard to publish - I'll just hack it for me20:22
Khertan_n810yacoob: i will say nokia has a great attitude20:23
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Khertan_n810as they sell me an n810 for 99Euros20:23
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zuhKhertan_n810: That's bribing, not great attitude ;)20:24
lcukyacoob, nokia is a community grandparent, they are getting us together for a party next month :D20:24
Khertan_n810and extras repository maintainer really help me to dev a tool to upload package from a nit20:24
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gregorovius_well... if they do that, they're expecting you to pay the difference in development time20:24
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Mekthey gave me one for free :P20:24
Khertan_n810yep an paid travel and accomodation for the summit20:24
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lcukgregorovius_, which you would do anyway20:25
lcukmek, yer we've been waiting for you freeloaders to arrive :P20:25
yacoobon site, you'll be fed nokia-love-inducing drugs...20:25
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Khertan_n810they sold me it without condition20:26
Khertan_n810palm as never listen to third party developper20:26
Khertan_n810and never answer to my help request with the api20:27
RST38hlcukkk20:27
lcukthats cos palm world was $$$20:27
lcukrst387.9999999h20:27
Khertan_n810and the worst thing is that their api sucks20:27
* lcuk cant type ever when he needs to20:27
Khertan_n810as change isn t documented20:27
andrewfblackEhy qwerty12 this weekend I need to get with you on how to do those changes to my theme deb20:28
lcukKhertan, it is if you are in the club20:28
RST38hProgramming for PalmOS is like ass-fucking a pidgeon20:28
andrewfblackopps he gone lol20:28
ariyaanyone here knows someone who does something with the qt hildon IM ?20:28
RST38h[and I mean it literally]20:28
gregoroviusRST38h: disgusting!20:28
RST38hDisgusting does not even begin to describe it20:28
lcukariya, yes, GNUton and jott are doing qt type stuff20:28
lcukand others as well20:28
Khertan_n810lcuk: which one my software kmeteo hit the top 20 used softwares for palm os20:28
lcukand they never let you in the club? shameful20:29
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Khertan_n810example of a bad things : setting the prefs 'HomeButton' on tx set it really to the home button, on treo650 it set the phone button, and on a Treo680 the other phone button to end call20:30
* yacoob just wonder where does RST gathered the experience to compare it to... :D20:30
gregoroviusany recommendations for a personal wiki sorta thing?20:30
Khertan_n810tx is identified as lifedrive ...20:30
Khertan_n810lifedrive as a e220:30
yacoobbut yah, I've read briefly PalmOS programming guide, looked like ressurected c64  manual in few places20:31
lbtgregorovius: Zim is excellent20:31
Khertan_n810and treo650 itg s depends on rom version20:31
yacoobgregorovius, tiddlywiki!20:31
lbtnot a web wiki -desktop wiki20:31
yacoobit does... everything!20:31
Khertan_n810yacoob: worse than a c64 manual20:31
gregoroviusis zim ported to NITs?20:31
yacoobzim seems to be dead.20:32
Khertan_n810other example ... there is a lib to know if a lib exist ...20:32
yacoobah, no, that's just me looking for wrong thing.20:32
Khertan_n810but on some models it answer true instead of false20:32
Khertan_n810so you need to make many switch case in your code to test model, and rom revision20:33
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gregoroviusyacoob: does tiddlywiki work ok on the tablets?20:33
Khertan_n810other thing ... you can t do more than 4 socket or u will break socket stack20:33
Khertan_n810and there is many things like that20:34
yacoobgregorovius, don't know, tbh. It's all html+js, so I don't think microb will have any problems with that...20:34
gregoroviusi was thinking maybe it'll be too much of a strain, but i'll try it out20:35
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ariyaGNUton: ping20:38
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Khertan_n810raaaaahhhh ! alarmd will make me crazy20:48
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Edulixhi20:49
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MekEdulix: hi20:50
Edulixis there any easy way to transform an ilbc sound file to wav or mp3?20:50
Edulixusing command line in linux if possible =)20:50
EdulixI recorded the ilbc file with maemo recorder20:50
Edulix*files20:50
brontideKhertan: I'll give py2deb a whirl and see if I can get Dialcentral ( Grandcentral Dialer ) into extras already20:51
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Khertan_n810brontide: is it in python ?20:52
brontideYep20:52
Khertan_n810oh20:53
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Khertan_n810oh do u cancel an alarm when u don t have his id ?20:54
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brontideHmmm... I've tackled a lot of python/gtk/maemo quirks, but alarmd is not something I've tackled.  I'll be working on alarmd next when I finish up the google docs sync20:55
Khertan_n810...20:56
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Khertan_n810i have created an alarm for a test that launch mcalendar each minute20:56
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Khertan_n810can t cancel it as i vn t his id20:57
Khertan_n810don t found anything in the python binding to list alarm20:57
brontideHmm... that's stupid20:57
Khertan_n810yep20:57
brontidethere needs to be a way to enumerate alarms20:57
brontidecan you get it from the xml file that alarmd uses?20:58
brontidehere /var/lib/alarmd/alarm_queue.xml20:59
lcukwhich distro is prefered for scratchbox?21:01
XTLDebian might be the most natural one21:02
XTLI think the instructions for installing devkits are for D21:02
Khertan_n810hum passing the right say me False21:03
Khertan_n810pfff21:03
RST38hlcuk: ubuntu21:04
RST38hlcuk: you may have problems with others21:04
lcukubuntu is debian based isnt it21:04
brontideSo no luck with the cookie from the xml file?21:04
lcukthanks xtl/ RST38h21:04
Khertan_n810no ... i ve edited file21:05
Khertan_n810work better21:05
lcukRST38h, is it straight forward to install if im careful21:06
RST38hit is safe as long as you follow the instructions exactly21:06
* lcuk needs a machine once again for the summit and it might as well have proper features21:06
brontidegetting threads/gobject.idle_add was my big advance today, dialcentral is now lots more responsive21:07
ariyaIcuk: scratchbox on OpenSUSE is also dead easy21:07
RST38hI do suggest installing sb2 instead though21:07
lcuksimpler? or just another thing to learn21:07
RST38hgentler21:07
lcuki was tempted the other day to dd the vmware image directly onto my laptop21:08
RST38hyou will not have completely insulated environment21:08
RST38hIn sb1, you log into the "system" and use it this way. To get to your own file system you have to configure networking and use nfs locally21:08
RST38hIn sb2, you do not log in21:08
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RST38hJust use "sb2 gcc" instead of "gcc" and you are all set21:08
lcuki dont ever think bout logging  in with vmware - its just a console box like i have now21:08
lcukbut i run make - do the makefiles need altering to do similar?21:09
RST38hyes, but you will have to log in from that console box into sb121:09
RST38hIn sb1, you will run make inside the scratchbox21:09
lcukyes - the desktop icon does all that for me - once ive clicked it im ready to go with no logins21:09
RST38hIn sb2, you can use whatever make you have in your Linux, just change CC setting21:09
Mekin sb1 you can just mount --bind to get your local file system inside scratchbox..21:09
* lcuk would prefer to compile and build on a native arm system21:10
lcukwould a beagleboard allow this incidentally?21:10
lcukuse it as a desktop and build maemo apps?21:10
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lcukill get ubuntu on the machine first anyway and see which sb fits21:11
brontidelcuk: I'm kinda hoping that the maemo firmware under qemu thing pans out21:11
RST38hhttp://exiledonline.com/dolan-who-wants-ice-man/21:11
GeneralAntillesSpeaking of that, where'd hrw disappear to?21:11
lcukbrontide, i would hope to never have to use an emulator21:12
RST38hcheck his blog?21:12
lcukGeneralAntilles, probably very busy21:12
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RST38hhttp://blog.haerwu.biz/21:12
crashanddieisn't hrw on holiday ?21:13
lcukgood job i didnt get his blog mixed up with "human rights watch" links :D21:13
RST38hHe is working at OpenedHand21:13
lcukcrashanddie, like i said, very busy21:13
crashanddieso ?21:13
RST38hWhich means he should be VERY busy right around now ;)21:13
lcukholiday is the most important time of the year (assuming he is having one)21:14
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Khertan_n810grr...21:14
Khertan_n810this is stupid to not have iterator to get alarm ... how cancel it if the databased is scratched by user ?21:15
brontideI'm on the deck looking out over the water enjoying candy and hard cider..... after spending all morning at the beach... list is hard21:15
crashanddienha21:15
RST38hlcuk: afai, no21:15
crashanddieat OpenedHand, they just spend time moving desktops around at this time21:15
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GeneralAntilleskaie, with the right software (gphoto2) you can hook your camera in directly21:16
GeneralAntillesand OTG has plenty of power for that (which it wont have for a card reader).21:17
crashanddieQWERTY !!!21:18
crashanddieNo one would know how I can find out if the tablet is running in landscape or portrait mode ?21:19
lcukyes, see xomap or whatever it is21:19
lcukxrandr maybe21:19
lcuki cant remember which but theres a library for it21:19
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crashanddieyeah, but that means they need to have xrandr installed :)21:19
lcukand if its not installed then you know its not rotated :)21:20
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lcukfor now just check for 800*480 or 480*800?21:20
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RST38hcheck root window dimensions21:21
RST38hin fact, I would expect *any* pair of numbers, not just these two21:21
RST38hthis is the right thing to do, in case you run app on a different device21:21
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, xrandr is bundled.21:25
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crashanddienha, I managed without it21:25
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a-l-ehello. i'd like to install php on the n810 and i see 3 packages... which is the difference? is php5-fastcgi-pear a metapackage with all i need?21:34
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TrueJournalsHello!21:42
TrueJournals... or not :-P21:43
TrueJournalsI'm trying to modify rdesktop to get it to work on my n800... but I'm having trouble with power button presses21:43
TrueJournalsI can't figure out a reliable way to detect if the power button is pressed... any ideas?21:44
crashanddiedone21:44
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crashanddielcuk, want to see the latest version ?21:44
lcukgfi21:45
crashanddiehang on, I'll just tar the needed things so that everyone can try it21:45
crashanddieworks in both landscape and portrait mode :)21:45
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lcukcrash, with randr, or you rotating your assets?21:46
crashanddiewith xrandr21:47
* lcuk crosses legs at that thought actually21:47
crashanddieI don't change a thing21:47
lcukyer, we should push for native support in default nokia kernel - jott has proven its stable and lots of things benefit21:47
crashanddiehttp://undercity.doesntexist.com/~crashanddie/cloudreader.tar21:48
crashanddieanyway, time for star trek voyager, ttyl21:49
penguinbaitWindow Maker anyone?  http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=216174#post21617421:50
lcukpenguinbait, great stuff, give a gallery as well: http://www.windowmaker.info/gallery.php21:52
GeneralAntilleslcuk, there's already a bug21:52
GeneralAntillesFor kernel and xserver21:52
GeneralAntillesxrandr is already shipped21:52
GeneralAntillesSo get Nokia to ship the kernel and xserver patched then "rotation support" is just "install Advanced Backlight"21:53
GeneralAntillesWoo, Voyager.21:53
lcukpenguinbait, how much modding did you need to slot this into maemo?21:53
GeneralAntillesThere a throwback to my youth.21:53
lcukGeneralAntilles, it needs a new kernel though21:53
penguinbaitnone, it just runs nicely21:54
GeneralAntilleslcuk, erm, "ne"21:54
GeneralAntilless/ne/new/21:54
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: lcuk, erm, "new"21:54
lcukits a "simple" window manager isnt it21:54
GeneralAntilles[2:53pm] <GeneralAntilles> So get Nokia to ship the __kernel__ and xserver patched then "rotation support" is just "install Advanced Backlight"21:54
penguinbait25MB and fits right in flash21:55
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penguinbaitits really only about 6-8mb but I added lots of other stuff21:55
GeneralAntillesI don't understand the "let's use a desktop WM on a 4.1" screen with a stylus" thought process.21:55
lcukpenguinbait, ive just grabbed the base source, im looking for something to sit ontop of liqbase to use the speed boost..21:55
penguinbaitwell #1 WM was designed when 800x600 was the majority :)21:56
GeneralAntillesYeah, well, that's 800x600 at ~72dpi21:56
GeneralAntillesNot 225dpi21:56
penguinbaitIt works real nice, but not for old people who can't see small fonts :)21:56
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MangoFusionGeneralAntilles: what's hard to understand? it's a desktop... in your pocket. OMFG!!21:57
penguinbaithell its almost worth 25MB just to have real fdisk :)21:58
Stskeepscfdisk isn't bad either21:58
penguinbaitits got pico too21:58
penguinbaithehe21:58
penguinbaitrcp/rsh/telnet/ftp21:59
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penguinbaitlest also not forget how usefull xeyes is :)21:59
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RST38hdoes pico still crash on search?22:00
penguinbaitnot sure, I will test22:00
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Stskeepspenguinbait: have you looked at my bootmenu.d stuff btw? (since you do clone to sd stuff and other stuff)22:01
penguinbaitnope search works fine22:01
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remex_>/w 822:01
penguinbaitStskeeps, I really only remove Fanoush's checks and balances and place in a deb22:02
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Stskeepsah22:02
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Stskeepsmy idea was mostly the part about adding bootmenu items through a /etc/bootmenu.d system, so its easy to install new items22:03
penguinbaitI made a bootmenu installer deb, it just installs bootmenu.  It will scan all partitions and write out new bootmenu, ext2 and 3 are supported22:04
penguinbaitIt might only scan two per SD card, I dont recall at this point in time22:04
GeneralAntillesMangoFusion, I almost exclusively use my thumbs.22:04
GeneralAntillesHitting those tiny little widgets is not possible.22:04
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MangoFusionnot my problem. get smaller thumbs ;)22:05
Stskeepspenguinbait: yeah, - my goal was more to have the systems tell how they want to be booted and how to represent in boot menu22:05
MangoFusionthough seriously22:05
MangoFusioni don't get it either22:05
RST38hGAN: Use nails22:05
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MangoFusionthumbs on an n800 or n810?22:06
RST38hpenguinbait: cool! Now, if you just pack pico... =)22:06
penguinbaituse vi, or its 25MB :)22:07
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* GeneralAntilles scratches up RST38h's N810 with two rusty nails.22:08
penguinbaitouch!22:08
* penguinbait slaps GeneralAntilles around a bit with a large trout22:09
RST38hurgh22:09
GeneralAntillesHey, save the trouts for slapping around the Nokians!22:09
RST38hpenguin: not fair! =)22:09
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penguinbaitRST it might work by itself22:12
penguinbaittry penguinbait.com/pico.gz22:12
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lbt <Stskeeps> my idea was mostly the part about adding bootmenu items through a /etc/bootmenu.d system, so its easy to install new items...... oh, that was your idea ;)22:13
Stskeepsoh, lbt's idea22:13
Stskeepsmy bad22:13
lbt;)22:13
* lbt lurks22:13
* lbt reads the backlog sometimes22:14
RST38hpenguin: thanks!22:14
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penguinbaitI think it will work, there are no other files that go with it22:14
penguinbaitlet me know?22:14
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RST38hit should work - will test a bit later22:20
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andrewfblackI was just thinking I have seen dozens of posts about missing stylist how come no one has ever made some I'm sure people would buy them22:22
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GeneralAntillesMade some that'd actually fit in the tablet's stylus slot?22:23
GeneralAntillesYou'd have to produce at LEAST a thousand to have any sort of reasonable price.22:23
andrewfblackI could make them my self to fit for less then a quarter a peice22:24
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kkrustylol22:26
kkrustywho came up with i-am-free?22:26
kkrustybrilliant22:26
RST38hInformation technology workers at the US Department of Homeland Security are busy scraping egg off their collective faces after unknown hackers broke into their telephone system and wracked up $12,000 in calls to the Middle East and Asia.22:30
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andrewfblackjust did some quick math and I can make a Stylus for 9 cents22:44
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RST38hin how big batch?22:46
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andrewfblack10022:47
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andrewfblackthats not to big of a batch I wouldn't think22:50
andrewfblacksince if I decided to make them I would make min order like 522:50
RST38hhm22:50
andrewfblackwell figuring in cost of material to make the molds it would cost me 39 cents for first batch and then 9 cents for each next batch since molds are reusable22:53
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RST38hoh you are doing it by yourself22:57
andrewfblackyeah22:57
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moontigerwould they be the same as the existing stylus's (stylii?) ?23:13
andrewfblackabout 99% I most likly will not have the Nokia imprint on them just to watch out for myself23:13
andrewfblackand be smooth instead of the slight texture it has now23:14
moontigercolor?23:14
andrewfblackcould be just about any including clear if thats what people wanted23:15
moontigerawesome ... put me down for some :)23:15
andrewfblacklol I got to order the stuff to make the molds first and I can only make 2 molds at a time since I only have 2 stylus right now  I guess once I make the first 2 then I would have 4 to make molds from23:16
kkrustythe n810 stylus isnt as good as the one with n800 but Im sure this must be an old topic now23:16
andrewfblackwhats not the same about them never owned a n80023:17
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kkrustywell they arent the same. The n800 is thicker23:18
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andrewfblackwell if people wanted some n800 ones I would just need someone to send me there stylus for 24 hours and I could send it back to them23:19
moontigerwell if you get round to it and need some upfront $$ (oooooooo $10) just let me know ;)23:19
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andrewfblackI only need $33 to make my first 100 so money isn't the problem, I'll order the stuff next week I might have my first batch done 2 weeks from now23:20
moontigeryou rock! :)23:22
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andrewfblackI'll post something on itT once I get the stuff to make the molds in23:22
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andrewfblackI have to finish work on my Vac Table so I can make the Nokia Tablet Custom Grip with built in Game Controls23:32
andrewfblackI finally decided how to hook the tablet to the Grip23:32
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Luriaduct tape23:34
Luria?23:34
lcuki use highly advanced elastic bands23:35
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Luriaduct tape - it surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together.23:36
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Luriaexcept for the stuff that's soldered together. thats the dark side, which is a bit more fun.23:36
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andrewfblackgoing to use a stylus hold on the n810 to mount it actually23:38
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Luriaevicting the stylus?23:39
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Luriahmmm.... cool, i have 13 weeks 6 days of audio in my collection now. need another hdd or two23:39
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lbtwoo hoo - automount works :)23:41
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Luriaautomount on maemo23:42
lbtyes23:42
lbtautofs23:42
lbtwith nfs23:42
Luriashouldnt it work anyway?23:42
lbtdidn't appear to be in the modules23:42
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Luriahuh, i wish eeexubuntu knew what it's doing... it always mounts sd as cdfs23:43
lbtthis is /net/host/files_on_host23:43
lbtautomagically via nfs/cifs23:43
lbtso the mount occurs on access23:43
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lbtnot hotplug23:43
Luriano, i get what you are doing. mostly talking to myself, reminding me to fix my issues. good work, btw.23:43
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