| GeneralAntilles | I don't want to try to figure out Scratchbox under PPC/OS X | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| GeneralAntilles | At least I know compiling on device works. ;) | 00:00 |
| fred | :| | 00:01 |
| lcuk | compiling does, but its not automatic and incomplete for custom projects | 00:01 |
| moontiger | GA: so you dont have a linux box? | 00:01 |
| lcuk | the lack of "configure" support brings most downloaded projects to a fullstop | 00:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | moontiger, unless you count my tablets. | 00:01 |
| moontiger | well of course... excepting them i meant | 00:02 |
| lcuk | can we count all of them? we only have 32bit calculators | 00:02 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: maybe I could set you up on my buildbox <_< | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, nah, not that important. | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's easier just to con other people into doing my compiling for me. ;) | 00:02 |
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| * GeneralAntilles pokes Navi with a stick. | 00:02 | |
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| moontiger | im finding developing under plain gtk on the desktop then porting works well for me | 00:02 |
| lcuk | moontiger, same goes for sdl (with a few slowdowns) | 00:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | I might dual-boot Linux on my G5 if it didn't turn into a jet taking off in Linux. | 00:03 |
| * fred finds developing under plain qt on the desktop then plain recompiling (+ ui changes) works well :) | 00:03 | |
| moontiger | lcuk, yah i cant imagine developing on the tablet is very much fun for anything more than a few changes | 00:04 |
| moontiger | fred, i hear yah | 00:04 |
| lcuk | moontiger, i do 100% of dev compiling and running on the tablet | 00:04 |
| * fred needs to do more UI changes though :( | 00:04 | |
| lcuk | i edit files using komodo edit in windows, or same in linux etc | 00:05 |
| lcuk | when im out and about though, i can hack away (with pygtkeditor) and make things and tweak and recompile | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good compatibility with desktop toolkits is one of the tablet's biggest strengths, but also its biggest weakness. . . . | 00:05 |
| fred | http://files.fredemmott.co.uk/yanihp-n810.jpg - not exactly finger-friendly :p | 00:05 |
| moontiger | i was going to look at komodo ... is it worth it? | 00:05 |
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| lcuk | ive got it configured to write c code - the editor is nice and fast and its styled to look and feel like visual basic classic code editor | 00:05 |
| moontiger | fred, hehe wossit? | 00:06 |
| * moontiger shudders at the mention of vb ;) | 00:06 | |
| lcuk | moontiger, its an editor though, its not a full ide - i use console to build | 00:06 |
| moontiger | lcuk, i use anjuta for c/c++ stuff ... geany for php web ... and now (god help me) gedit for python | 00:07 |
| bef0rd | the editor is free, right? | 00:07 |
| fred | moontiger: older full size screenshot: http://files.fredemmott.co.uk/yanihp-info-on-right.png | 00:07 |
| lcuk | i wont try to change your mind, but vb can do everything any other language can, its just syntax | 00:07 |
| lcuk | beford yes | 00:07 |
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| moontiger | lcuk, i find it like coding with mittens on compared to c++ | 00:08 |
| lcuk | i treat vb like methadone | 00:08 |
| moontiger | fred, ok cool ... nice track btw ;) | 00:08 |
| lcuk | which is why im very happy to be back in c | 00:08 |
| lcuk | microsoft c is horrid | 00:08 |
| moontiger | lcuk, yah ... im liking python but its kinda vb-ish | 00:08 |
| lcuk | coding for windows turned me off it and thats when i found vb | 00:08 |
| moontiger | lcuk, i used to write trading systems for windows and you couldnt talk to the reuters feeds via vb back then | 00:09 |
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| mgedmin | vb turned me off | 00:09 |
| * fred managed to write some fairly advanced stuff in VB without learning what the difference between a module and a class module was... in 3 years. | 00:09 | |
| mgedmin | but then I had found delphi first | 00:09 |
| * fred hangs head in shame | 00:10 | |
| mgedmin | before it became too buggy to be useful | 00:10 |
| moontiger | its ok fred ... we all understand :) | 00:10 |
| jott | fred: is it possible to change the collection path with yanihp? it seems to lack a menu :) | 00:10 |
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| lcuk | moontiger, having activex access meant you could talk to anyone and anything - it actually made sense on the desktop | 00:10 |
| moontiger | yah but the reuters stuff didnt have any activex controls | 00:10 |
| fred | jott: erm, yeah, it does :p you get asked on first run - otherwise, there's the config file | 00:10 |
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| jott | fred: ok so it's config file :) | 00:11 |
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| * fred keeps on meaning to add menus + settings page, but doesn't seem to ever get around to it | 00:11 | |
| lcuk | without knowing specifics i cant comment, but ive not had a problem personally where its not been solvable by code or library | 00:11 |
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| moontiger | lcuk, i have great respect for vb coders ... i saw some amazing stuff written in it ... i just alwats preferred the c syntax | 00:11 |
| lcuk | fred, i know that feeling, im moving to a brain database right now and pondering things | 00:11 |
| moontiger | always too | 00:11 |
| lcuk | as do i | 00:11 |
| lcuk | hence me being here now coding back in c and loving every minute of it :) | 00:12 |
| moontiger | im almost done with my first maemo app ... couple more days and i'll be ready to package it ... that should be fun to figure out | 00:12 |
| moontiger | :) | 00:12 |
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| jott | fred: ah and why are the cover arts fetched from last.fm instead of using embedded or local one?! :O | 00:12 |
| jott | same for lyrics :) | 00:13 |
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| jott | never admit you are in charge of an incomplete project or you will be bombarded with feature requests :> | 00:14 |
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| lcuk | or an incomplete os | 00:14 |
| dghenke | So it would be a bad idea for me to mention I'm sending this from BitchX on my n810? | 00:15 |
| jott | lcuk: still thinking about liqos? ;) | 00:16 |
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| lcuk | well jott, if i *can* get the editor off the ground i can start self compiling | 00:16 |
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| lcuk | OMG, maemo had a virus | 00:17 |
| lcuk | ill b back laterish | 00:18 |
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| fred | jott: coverart is currently cached, and looks at amazon, musicbrainz, and last.fm | 00:21 |
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| fred | plan to look at folder.{jpg,png} and tags, not got around to it | 00:21 |
| fred | wasn't aware there was a lyrics tag though | 00:21 |
| jott | fred: yep, there are multiple lyrics tags :) | 00:21 |
| fred | oh dear. | 00:21 |
| jott | my collection has both album art and lyrics for nearly all songs :) | 00:21 |
| jott | otherwise i think it looks nice. | 00:22 |
| jott | (only tested on the desktop for now) | 00:22 |
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| fred | jott: got a link to some documentation on lyrics tags in different containers? (or just a list off the top of your head) | 00:23 |
| jott | http://www.id3.org/Lyrics3v2 and the other id3.org stuff :) | 00:23 |
| jott | oh lyrics3v2 hmm that's new :) | 00:24 |
| fred | oh dear | 00:24 |
| * fred harbours a hatred for id3 | 00:24 | |
| jott | fred: http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0#head-e76d4fb26268baf285bff899581cc284427a2789 | 00:24 |
| jott | USLT/SYLT | 00:24 |
| * fred hugs xiph comments for being a format that's actually sane to work with | 00:25 | |
| jott | i think those are the most common ones. afair itunes uses USLT | 00:25 |
| jott | hehe | 00:25 |
| jott | yeah id3 is somewhat grown from the wrong seed :) | 00:26 |
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| derf | There's also CMML/Annodex. | 00:26 |
| crashanddie | dannym, awesome, thanks | 00:27 |
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| jott | haha but this Lyrics3v2 really shows how broken id3 is :) | 00:30 |
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| fred | wtf... | 00:35 |
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| * fred spots APIC type 11 | 00:35 | |
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| fred | http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0#head-70a65d30522ef0d37642224c2a40517ae35b7155 | 00:36 |
| jott | yep | 00:36 |
| jott | that's the one commonly used. | 00:37 |
| jott | wtf | 00:37 |
| jott | arg | 00:37 |
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| fred | I assume that type $03 is the common one :p | 00:37 |
| jott | hehe | 00:37 |
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| jott | yes | 00:37 |
| lcuk | individually the letters work | 00:38 |
| jott | The ID3v2 standard may suck, but bright coloured fish seem to be the redeeming value of this standard. | 00:38 |
| jott | first google hit :) | 00:38 |
| * jott should tag his mp3s with the proper fishes | 00:39 | |
| fred | 21:39 < Faux> fred: Clearly a nod at Xiph. :p | 00:40 |
| fred | :p | 00:40 |
| jott | hehe | 00:41 |
| jott | yeah probably | 00:41 |
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| * fred resists urge to make a few 'MP3s' with no MP3 audio but with ogg/vorbis embedded in APIC $11 | 00:41 | |
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| dannym | crashanddie: you're welcome :) | 00:46 |
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| polyonymous | Hey guys, I'm trying to install the maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org thingie, which tries to grab stuff from maemo.research.nokia.com, which doesn't quite exist. Do you know a solution to the problem? | 00:49 |
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| lbt | ref deblet and just general interest... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/20/freerunner_debian/ | 00:49 |
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| lbt | polyonymous: you know you're going for a bleeding edge sdk right? | 00:51 |
| lbt | for a productive sdk go here: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo-4-1-diablo-sdk/ | 00:52 |
| lbt | or let us know how it works out :) I dropped sdk+ a couple of months back... | 00:53 |
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| moontiger | guys... how often would you want a calendar app to auto-refresh? | 00:54 |
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| lbt | moontiger: just before it needs to | 00:56 |
| * moontiger laughs | 00:56 | |
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| polyonymous | lbt, of course I do ;-) | 00:56 |
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| lbt | think about it... especially with alarms etc.... updates often arrive more frequently near events | 00:57 |
| polyonymous | lbt, I've tried the production one, it works, now it's time to try bleeding edge, isn't it? :) | 00:57 |
| lbt | polyonymous: just in case - I can't tell if you're a noob or just nuts... | 00:57 |
| lbt | it worked very nicely for me for a while | 00:57 |
| polyonymous | lbt, the latter :) | 00:57 |
| lbt | then it started playing silly buggers with LD_PRELOAD | 00:58 |
| lbt | and died | 00:58 |
| lbt | I haven't got round to trying again yet... | 00:58 |
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| polyonymous | I don't mind it dying. But you see - you've tried it, and so I want to :) | 00:58 |
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| pupnik | woo i may be able to make it to berlin | 01:00 |
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| lbt | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=214480 | 01:00 |
| dannym | sleeep... | 01:00 |
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| lbt | polyonymous: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32 | 01:00 |
| lbt | polyonymous:google-foo-- | 01:01 |
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| lbt | also suggests you're using a v.old source | 01:01 |
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| lbt | anyhow I'm off -- good luck | 01:01 |
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| polyonymous | lbt, thanks | 01:02 |
| moontiger | lbt, maybe i didnt put that very well ... in terms of fetching your stuff from say google calendar ... what update interval would be often enough? | 01:02 |
| polyonymous | Actually, I'm off for today myself :) | 01:02 |
| moontiger | oh doh! | 01:02 |
| lbt | moontiger: I knew what you meant | 01:02 |
| moontiger | laterz | 01:02 |
| lbt | I guess 15 mins | 01:02 |
| lbt | but be clever | 01:02 |
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| moontiger | i am ;) | 01:02 |
| lbt | so adapt the timing near events | 01:02 |
| lbt | for those last minute change of venues | 01:02 |
| lbt | etc | 01:03 |
| moontiger | hmmmmmmmmm... in case they change you mean? | 01:03 |
| moontiger | right | 01:03 |
| moontiger | nice idea :) | 01:03 |
| moontiger | thnx | 01:03 |
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| lbt | also, if nothing happens, lighten the load in quiet times | 01:03 |
| lbt | battery life | 01:03 |
| moontiger | right | 01:03 |
| moontiger | there is a manual refresh option too | 01:03 |
| lbt | cron is so last week | 01:03 |
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| lbt | and the week before ;) | 01:03 |
| lbt | 'night all | 01:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, you gonna do a session? | 01:04 |
| polyonymous | night | 01:04 |
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| lardman__ | re | 01:18 |
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| cbx33 | hey guys | 01:33 |
| cbx33 | just updated to diablo | 01:33 |
| cbx33 | and now it won't let me install the updates | 01:34 |
| cbx33 | any ideas why? | 01:34 |
| cbx33 | unable to update browser-neteal | 01:34 |
| cbx33 | and it dos it fo alot of the packages | 01:34 |
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| cbx33 | any ideas? | 01:36 |
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| yacoob | Hello there :) Is there a way to get rid of presence icon in the upper right corner? | 01:41 |
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| cbx33 | hmmm | 01:43 |
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| cbx33 | none of my catalogs say diablo | 01:43 |
| cbx33 | should they? | 01:43 |
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| bef0rd | yacoob, disabling all accounts I believe | 01:44 |
| yacoob | cbx33, if I'm not mistaken, if you don't specify anything, app manager will use current distro name | 01:44 |
| bef0rd | yacoob, or in the control panel | 01:44 |
| * bef0rd checks | 01:44 | |
| yacoob | bef0rd, doesn't seem to be an option to hide the icon, just default status and time to away | 01:45 |
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| bef0rd | yea, just checked, presence can't be disabled | 01:45 |
| bef0rd | :/ | 01:45 |
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| cbx33 | well i can't update | 01:47 |
| cbx33 | I'm sure that must be it | 01:48 |
| cbx33 | maybe I'll restore from backup but ignore my appliation list | 01:48 |
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| yacoob | sadly, pidgin sucks even more than built in chat. Oh well. | 01:55 |
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| MangoFusion | yacoob: i second that | 02:06 |
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| cbx333 | hey all | 02:13 |
| bef0rd | hi | 02:14 |
| cbx333 | anyone have a stock sources file??? for diablo?? | 02:14 |
| cbx333 | when i restroe my backup it overwrites it | 02:14 |
| cbx333 | even if i untick application list | 02:15 |
| lardman | yacoob: but you can add presence plugin | 02:15 |
| lardman | yacoob: though it seems to kill the battery (Pidgin) | 02:15 |
| lardman | anyway, night all | 02:16 |
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| AStorm | why oh WHY doesn't n810 have the GPS from N82 | 02:33 |
| AStorm | also a question - is it possible to hack BP-6M supporting phone to use BP-6L? | 02:34 |
| AStorm | (the same n810 does) | 02:34 |
| AStorm | wait, I'm wrong | 02:34 |
| AStorm | BP-5L | 02:34 |
| glass | are the sizes about the same? | 02:34 |
| AStorm | no | 02:35 |
| AStorm | ok, it's impossible | 02:35 |
| AStorm | the fresh BP-6M is smaller and 1050 mAh | 02:35 |
| AStorm | it's like 2/3 of BP-5L ;P | 02:36 |
| AStorm | even in size | 02:36 |
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| AStorm | well, it still uses the same old small Nokia plug... | 02:42 |
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| AStorm | which means my designer phone battery adapter will work :P | 02:42 |
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| derf | AStorm: N82 uses AGPS (Assisted GPS), so it's using information from the cell network that the N810 doesn't have. | 02:46 |
| AStorm | well | 02:47 |
| AStorm | can it make that info available over Bluetooth? | 02:47 |
| AStorm | ;P | 02:47 |
| mgedmin | agps rules | 02:48 |
| AStorm | indeed | 02:48 |
| glass | isn't there some app for s60(either native or j2me) that makes the phone act as a bt gps? | 02:48 |
| mgedmin | but IT DOES NOT WORK when you need it: i.e. when you're abroad | 02:48 |
| mgedmin | and there's no open wifi around you | 02:49 |
| mgedmin | and no gprs/edge/3g data connection | 02:49 |
| glass | mgedmin: works but it's horribly expensive usually.. | 02:49 |
| AStorm | mgedmin: well, 90s GPS lock time of my n810 is cool enough | 02:49 |
| AStorm | at worst it's 180s | 02:49 |
| mgedmin | meh, move halfway across the globe and try again | 02:50 |
| AStorm | (weird, as it should get correct almanac in much shorter time) | 02:50 |
| AStorm | mgedmin: ... it's 30s residential | 02:50 |
| AStorm | thanks to those nice maemo mapper updates | 02:50 |
| AStorm | although agps is more precise obviously | 02:50 |
| AStorm | hot lock is fast too | 02:51 |
| AStorm | the thing I need is a good app, like, ARM version of AutoMapa ;P | 02:51 |
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| mgedmin | okay, what's this "residential" thing and should I update my maemo-mapper? | 02:52 |
| AStorm | or some nice hack to make maemo mapper voice-guide | 02:52 |
| AStorm | mgedmin: it means if the time and position matches well enough, the fix is much faster | 02:52 |
| mgedmin | waah I want zeroconf/mdns/avahi on my n810 | 02:53 |
| mgedmin | I have my laptop and the n810 in the same (foreign) wlan, and I want to ssh to it by name, not by ip | 02:53 |
| AStorm | uhm, add your own DNS server? | 02:54 |
| mgedmin | by "foreign" I was trying to say "the wifi of the hotel I'm currently staying at that I cannot really reconfigure" | 02:54 |
| mgedmin | poorly-chosen word, that "foreign" | 02:54 |
| AStorm | ahh well | 02:55 |
| AStorm | /etc/hosts, use it | 02:55 |
| mgedmin | ip, dynamic, hard to figure out | 02:55 |
| mgedmin | I suppose I should give up and install that home applet | 02:55 |
| AStorm | s/dynamic/use dyndns/ | 02:55 |
| mgedmin | wow, cool | 02:55 |
| AStorm | ah, you mean the IP of the device | 02:55 |
| mgedmin | assuming dyndns works for internal IPs | 02:56 |
| AStorm | it does detect them | 02:56 |
| AStorm | sets your dns to external ip | 02:56 |
| AStorm | although I guess you could force it | 02:56 |
| mgedmin | hm weird, I can't ping it by ip | 02:57 |
| mgedmin | even though I'm in the same lan | 02:57 |
| mgedmin | firewall? | 02:57 |
| mgedmin | that would make my zeroconf wishes moot | 02:58 |
| AStorm | pings are disabled maybe? | 02:58 |
| AStorm | try tcpping or sth | 02:58 |
| mgedmin | ssh also worketh not | 02:58 |
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| AStorm | mgedmin: ok, you've lost connection | 03:00 |
| AStorm | so, what's that nice app to make the nice AGPS of N82 available over Bluetooth? | 03:00 |
| mgedmin | A-GPS Beta? | 03:01 |
| AStorm | for Symbian obviously | 03:01 |
| mgedmin | no idea | 03:01 |
| mgedmin | I don't know if n810's software can make use of the cell info | 03:01 |
| AStorm | there was talk of AGPS support for n810 | 03:02 |
| mgedmin | there is | 03:02 |
| mgedmin | it needs an internet connection (either wifi or gprs of some kind) | 03:02 |
| AStorm | I'd only need the AGPS-enabled GPS of Nokia N82 to look like Bluetooth GPS receiver | 03:02 |
| mgedmin | I think all it does is download the current almanac/ephemeris/whatever data | 03:02 |
| AStorm | :> | 03:02 |
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| AStorm | mgedmin: yes, it's called quick fix | 03:03 |
| AStorm | it downloads fresh ephemeris | 03:03 |
| AStorm | almanac wouldn't help as much | 03:03 |
| mgedmin | a turn-my-phone-into-bt-gps app would be cool | 03:03 |
| AStorm | unfortunately, I'd have to get my hands dirty with Symbian to code that | 03:03 |
| AStorm | though it's not impossible | 03:04 |
| * mgedmin hates the guy who decided on naming .documents, .sounds etc with a starting dot | 03:04 | |
| AStorm | yes | 03:04 |
| mgedmin | how am I supposed to du -chs MyDocs/* ??? | 03:04 |
| AStorm | mgedmin: du -chs MyDocs/.[a-zA-Z0-9]* | 03:04 |
| mgedmin | how am I supposed to type [ and ] on my n810 ??? | 03:05 |
| AStorm | ... | 03:05 |
| mgedmin | yes, yes, I know, use the vkb | 03:05 |
| AStorm | with Fn | 03:05 |
| AStorm | ah, wait, that's just my customized layout ;P | 03:05 |
| AStorm | use Chr key | 03:05 |
| mgedmin | yep | 03:05 |
| AStorm | also, my layout is *still* not included in ukeyboard | 03:05 |
| mgedmin | hey, du is cool | 03:05 |
| AStorm | and it ownz | 03:06 |
| mgedmin | du -chs MyDocs/.* shows me I have 64 megs in MyDocs and 8 megs outside | 03:06 |
| mgedmin | I suspect it's du's hardlink-detection code that kicks in | 03:06 |
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| mgedmin | but it doesn't show me the .sounds/whatever | 03:07 |
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| mgedmin | wow, I have 17 megs of saved gps tracks | 03:08 |
| mgedmin | hadn't realised those were big | 03:08 |
| mgedmin | oh, right, xml | 03:08 |
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| pupnik | there was probably a reason for the . mgedmin | 03:31 |
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| moontiger | pupnik, so do you do 3d stuff? | 03:32 |
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| pupnik | i used to | 03:32 |
| pupnik | mostly 2d accel from 1987-1991 | 03:32 |
| moontiger | where at? | 03:32 |
| moontiger | oh ok | 03:32 |
| moontiger | games? | 03:32 |
| pupnik | no CAD | 03:33 |
| moontiger | ahhhhhhhhh i c | 03:33 |
| moontiger | cool :) | 03:33 |
| pupnik | luck | 03:33 |
| pupnik | so where do i go tonight | 03:34 |
| pupnik | to meet a nice lady friend type human | 03:34 |
| shapr | Middle East in Cambridge | 03:34 |
| pupnik | i could probably be in england in a few hours | 03:34 |
| shapr | Er, not that Cambridge! | 03:34 |
| AStorm | pupnik: well, if I could just have that kind of dilemma here ;P | 03:34 |
| pupnik | it was damn fun with lcuk in berlin | 03:35 |
| shapr | Come visit Boston! | 03:35 |
| pupnik | no ... can't visit USA | 03:36 |
| pupnik | am on terrorist list | 03:36 |
| shapr | why not? | 03:36 |
| shapr | really? | 03:36 |
| AStorm | pupnik: lol | 03:36 |
| AStorm | due to what? | 03:36 |
| pupnik | my opinions, dumbass | 03:36 |
| AStorm | mad bombing run? being jailed? ;P | 03:36 |
| AStorm | or just mental institution? | 03:36 |
| pupnik | no just speech, you fuck | 03:36 |
| pupnik | just opposing mass murder | 03:36 |
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| AStorm | US is going downwards quick | 03:37 |
| shapr | Well, I left Sweden to move to the USA. | 03:37 |
| shapr | Sweden isn't much better. | 03:37 |
| AStorm | still is better | 03:37 |
| pupnik | german | 03:37 |
| pupnik | y isn't much better either | 03:37 |
| shapr | For some things Sweden is better than the USA. Not for software dev. | 03:37 |
| Proteous | the govment just be trying to protect us | 03:38 |
| Proteous | from ourselfs | 03:38 |
| Proteous | we be too dumb to do it | 03:38 |
| Proteous | please mr govment | 03:38 |
| pupnik | you're right shapr ... it's all not so binary O|1 | 03:38 |
| Proteous | help us be safe | 03:38 |
| AStorm | the bush-man is smrt | 03:38 |
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| shapr | pupnik: yup | 03:38 |
| shapr | pupnik: Sweden was much better for healthy food though. I liked that. | 03:38 |
| shapr | It's cheaper to buy healthy food in Sweden. Cheaper to buy fattening food in the USA. | 03:38 |
| pupnik | also bad food... chickens with shit all over the meat | 03:39 |
| Proteous | I needs my pork rinds and tato chips | 03:39 |
| AStorm | it's not cheap to buy proper food in Poland too :/ | 03:39 |
| AStorm | it's getting more and more expensive | 03:39 |
| pupnik | the chicken in usa tastes like shit... because you are eating meat covered in chicken shit | 03:39 |
| shapr | pupnik: I haven't had that problem. | 03:39 |
| AStorm | same almost everywhere | 03:39 |
| AStorm | it tastes like fish | 03:39 |
| AStorm | it's so wrong on many levels | 03:39 |
| shapr | I had some beefalo not too long ago, that was tasty. | 03:40 |
| pupnik | i'm gonna start killing my own animals | 03:40 |
| AStorm | pupnik: cat soup? ;P | 03:40 |
| shapr | squirrel soup is good! | 03:40 |
| pupnik | yes... that means 96% vegetarian | 03:40 |
| pupnik | just 4% killing | 03:40 |
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| shapr | Life feeds on life. | 03:40 |
| pupnik | will go do now... ttyl | 03:40 |
| AStorm | except plants | 03:41 |
| AStorm | you're not a plant, btw | 03:41 |
| * shapr waves at pupnik | 03:41 | |
| lardman | ~lart unmatching checksums | 03:48 |
| * infobot frags unmatching checksums with his BFG9000 | 03:48 | |
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| shapr | Is it easy to get my mac address from /proc somewhere? | 03:51 |
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| lardman | ifconfig? | 03:51 |
| lardman | or look in control panel is probably easiest | 03:51 |
| Proteous | look under the battery cover? | 03:51 |
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| lardman | hi lcuk2 | 03:51 |
| shapr | I mean, programmatically... | 03:52 |
| shapr | I want to generate GUIDs. | 03:52 |
| AStorm | shapr: well, uuidgen is there :> | 03:52 |
| shapr | lardman: Yeah, ifconfig is probably best, thanks. | 03:52 |
| AStorm | in e2fsprogs | 03:52 |
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| shapr | hmm | 03:53 |
| shapr | AStorm: thanks | 03:53 |
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| n800m | i think it's programily | 03:56 |
| moontiger | is there a way to *properly* find out what modules my app actually needs as opposed to just commenting them out and seeing it it still runs? | 03:57 |
| moontiger | im coding in python btw | 03:57 |
| lardman | just comment them out, should be pretty easy to work it out | 03:59 |
| lcuk2 | hi lardman, you are up late | 04:00 |
| moontiger | ok cool... thats what i am doing ... just wondered if there was a *proper* way ... thnx :) | 04:00 |
| lcuk2 | moontiger, there is no magic button | 04:00 |
| lardman | Not that I've ever tried :) | 04:00 |
| lcuk2 | get an ide which has an intelligence library and knows how to read code and you might have it | 04:00 |
| moontiger | cool thnx :) | 04:00 |
| moontiger | im not that good with python yet so i dont know if there is some stuff going on behind the scenes that might bite me | 04:01 |
| lcuk2 | you are thinking like microsoft and expecting everything built in, for most stuff, expect to get to know the library before you can use it | 04:01 |
| * lardman votes for it writing the code too! | 04:01 | |
| moontiger | just trying to reduce the footprint is all :) | 04:02 |
| lcuk2 | its been a bit of a culture shock to me, but googling the function of class usually brings up enough | 04:02 |
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| shapr | moontiger: You could always do explicit imports. | 04:02 |
| * lcuk2 is starting to feel comfortable with linux now | 04:02 | |
| moontiger | heh i know what you mean :) | 04:02 |
| moontiger | shapr, you mean with "import blahblah" | 04:03 |
| moontiger | ? | 04:03 |
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| moontiger | lcuk, me too ... i wouldnt want to go back to windows programming if i had a choice ... i like the linux way | 04:03 |
| lcuk2 | the only thing i actively like about windows is vb classic.. | 04:04 |
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| lcuk2 | i cannot stand anything produced since .net came out | 04:04 |
| shapr | moontiger: Yeah | 04:05 |
| shapr | lcuk2: After ten years of being microsoft free, I got a .NET job in January. | 04:05 |
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| shapr | lcuk2: So far, the only good point of Visual Studio is that it has pretty graphical designers. But its flaws make VS an overall negative. | 04:06 |
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| moontiger | shapr, im doing that already thnx :) funny bout the .NOT job ;) | 04:06 |
| moontiger | i cant stand vs2008 | 04:06 |
| shapr | I'm doing SharePoint dev for a living. I mostly use emacs/cygwin/etc. | 04:06 |
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| moontiger | lcuk2, yah i think they lost the plot since ballmer took charge | 04:07 |
| shapr | Microsoft dev makes me crazy. | 04:07 |
| lardman | ~lart bitreading code | 04:08 |
| * infobot hauls bitreading code up by the scruff of the neck and spanks him until he waddles | 04:08 | |
| lcuk2 | shapr, a portion of our codebase has been recoded in .shit over the last 2 years. it makes me shudder when i see just how slow simple things are | 04:08 |
| moontiger | yah ... i was always in mfc / atl stuff | 04:08 |
| lcuk2 | it looks pretty some of the time, but the graphical glitches and general sluggishness are just dire | 04:08 |
| shapr | The only thing worse is all the programmers I meet who have only ever microsoft, have never even heard of the alternatives. | 04:08 |
| shapr | ever used* | 04:09 |
| lcuk2 | which also explains why i dont like using hildon .. ;) | 04:09 |
| moontiger | yah | 04:09 |
| lcuk2 | shapr, you get used to the libraries | 04:09 |
| lcuk2 | its like a comfort zone where you know how it all works. | 04:10 |
| shapr | Yeah, but I doubt I'll ever get used to the instability of the apps. | 04:10 |
| lcuk2 | uncertainty is the worst one | 04:10 |
| moontiger | thats what happens when you lower the barrier to entry so much | 04:10 |
| shapr | Yeah, it's hard to change. | 04:10 |
| shapr | But I knew that ten years ago, that's why I refused to take a microsoft job for that time :-) | 04:10 |
| moontiger | now you've turned to the dark side luke... | 04:11 |
| shapr | Because I now know that linux, etc makes programming that much easier. | 04:11 |
| lcuk2 | the main rebuilt app in .net is having a problem. when left alone for a few minutes it would deadlock. no reason or anything. i got called in today to see if i could work my usual magic (i have an ability to track and identify bugs and clean them effectively..) | 04:11 |
| shapr | moontiger: Now I get to demonstrate cygwin, etc to my coworkers. | 04:11 |
| lcuk2 | i found out it has a listening port | 04:11 |
| shapr | ! | 04:11 |
| shapr | um, why? | 04:11 |
| lcuk2 | i asked the main dev what it was and he had no idea his app was making network connections | 04:11 |
| shapr | sheesh | 04:12 |
| moontiger | ?? | 04:12 |
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| lcuk2 | it really pisses me off | 04:12 |
| shapr | lcuk2: Did you figure out why it's listening? | 04:12 |
| moontiger | or what its listening for?? | 04:12 |
| lcuk2 | i know every line of code in my applications and would know for certain what every little bit does | 04:12 |
| lcuk2 | no because ive not got 2008 on my machine | 04:13 |
| moontiger | barrier to entry == too low | 04:13 |
| lardman | even if you wrote it while drunk...? | 04:13 |
| lardman | ;) | 04:13 |
| lcuk2 | heh lardman :D | 04:13 |
| lcuk2 | ok 1 little thing :P | 04:13 |
| lcuk2 | you bastard! | 04:13 |
| lardman | :) | 04:13 |
| lcuk2 | oh shit, i just woke the missus | 04:13 |
| shapr | shh! | 04:14 |
| lardman | oops | 04:14 |
| shapr | manchester? ma? | 04:14 |
| lcuk2 | uk | 04:14 |
| shapr | ah, too bad. Manchester, MA is about fifteen minutes drive from here. | 04:14 |
| lcuk2 | its only 1 thing - i ask about things like threads and code running | 04:15 |
| lcuk2 | he blanks it "none of my code is running" | 04:15 |
| lcuk2 | i never said your code, i said whats happening whilst the form is on screen | 04:15 |
| lcuk2 | what times are there, whats being kicked off | 04:15 |
| shapr | Most .net programmers don't know. | 04:15 |
| lardman | lcuk2: you're ranting ;) | 04:15 |
| shapr | I still don't know much yet :-( | 04:15 |
| lcuk2 | of course | 04:15 |
| lcuk2 | lardman, do i recall you saying you had installed liqbase | 04:16 |
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| lardman | yep, very nice | 04:16 |
| lardman | as expected | 04:17 |
| lcuk2 | is it still on your system? | 04:17 |
| lardman | yep | 04:17 |
| lcuk2 | ill send you a mail in a minute | 04:17 |
| moontiger | shapr, do you go to codeproject.com ? | 04:17 |
| lardman | you're not the phantom-font-changer are you? | 04:17 |
| lcuk2 | just got a sketch on it, i would like to see if somethings possible | 04:17 |
| lcuk2 | what do you mean? | 04:17 |
| lardman | my menu font has changed | 04:18 |
| lcuk2 | what to? | 04:18 |
| lardman | little | 04:18 |
| lcuk2 | i dont see how | 04:18 |
| lcuk2 | which menu? | 04:18 |
| lardman | only for desktop messages (like screen locked) & the hw off button menu | 04:18 |
| lardman | no worries, it's not liqbase | 04:18 |
| lcuk2 | ahhh k, what is it? | 04:19 |
| lardman | no idea | 04:19 |
| lardman | not too bothered | 04:19 |
| n800m | it was microsoft | 04:21 |
| n800m | or these guys http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=mR-VVHxcFDQ&feature=related | 04:21 |
| lcuk2 | actually simon, doesnt matter for tonight, its bedtime i think | 04:23 |
| lardman | yeah, I'm feeling pretty tired now too | 04:24 |
| lardman | perhaps I'll actually go to sleep now | 04:24 |
| lcuk2 | you aint normally about this time of night | 04:24 |
| lardman | nah, I went to bed, but couldn't sleep | 04:25 |
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| lardman | converting dsp-tremor to use 16bit type buffers for 8bit data is enough to send anyone to sleep ;) | 04:27 |
| shapr | moontiger: What's that? | 04:27 |
| lardman | anyway, see you chaps tomorrow | 04:27 |
| * shapr waves | 04:27 | |
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| moontiger | codeproject.com is the best website and forums for ms dev work ... some very good people there to help if you need any questions answered | 04:28 |
| shapr | thanks | 04:28 |
| moontiger | np :) | 04:28 |
| shapr | My real problem is just lack of familiarity with the libs. I have a lot of programming experience. | 04:28 |
| moontiger | there are a lot of tutorials and articles there as well to show you how to do stuff ... i learn a lot from there when im doing something new | 04:28 |
| moontiger | check it out ;) | 04:29 |
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| lcuk2 | http://www.reddit.com/r/Bacon/comments/6x2ap/chipotle_blta_photo/ | 04:34 |
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| Bayk | Khertan you here? | 05:04 |
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| AFBN810 | wow I didn't even know I was online lol | 05:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Interesting bit on OMAP3: http://www.embedded.com/underthehood/210101486;jsessionid=S1PIBDKTEA45IQSNDLOSKH0CJUNN2JVN | 06:17 |
| mgedmin | hey, did the last diablo os update (the first one that was apt-gettable) have a changelog? | 06:19 |
| mgedmin | "email and browser changes" is a bit vague | 06:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Modest and MicroB updates | 06:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | some fixes to text input | 06:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | and some fixes to icd2 | 06:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Modest had a lot of its larger bugs fixed | 06:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | MicroB had some pretty big performance boosts | 06:22 |
| moontiger | does anyone know how to mount my n810 over sshfs NOT as root on the n810? | 06:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, http://tinyurl.com/5axvau | 06:23 |
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| mgedmin | moontiger: I do | 06:23 |
| moontiger | ummmmm could you enlighten me please :) | 06:24 |
| mgedmin | moontiger@laptop $ sshfs user@n810:/ my-n810 | 06:24 |
| brontide | bah, any pymaemo/pygtk experts... why does showing a dialog during a gobject.idle_add function cause the app to hang | 06:24 |
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| moontiger | mgedmin, then it asks for a password and user doesnt have one | 06:25 |
| moontiger | thats where im stuck | 06:25 |
| mgedmin | set up pubkey auth | 06:25 |
| brontide | sudo gainroot; passwd user ? | 06:25 |
| mgedmin | if you don't have a ssh key, generate one with ssh-keygen | 06:25 |
| mgedmin | then ssh-copy-id user@my-n810 | 06:25 |
| moontiger | ughhhhhhh really? :| | 06:25 |
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| mgedmin | type in your password... aaah! | 06:26 |
| mgedmin | duh, of course 'user' has no password, and that's why you have problems | 06:26 |
| moontiger | this doesnt affect me actually USING my n810 afterwards does it? | 06:26 |
| gregorovius__ | nope | 06:27 |
| moontiger | so the password key is only for remote connections yes? | 06:27 |
| moontiger | (sorry im being dumb) | 06:27 |
| gregorovius__ | i created a password for user to login first, did the rest over ssh and then removed the passwd again | 06:27 |
| mgedmin | anyway, if you copy ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub to your n810 and put it into /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys, you'll be able to do passwordless logins | 06:27 |
| moontiger | so ssh-keygen makes that file yes? | 06:29 |
| gregorovius__ | yes. if yu have gnome you can do it all with seahorse, btw | 06:29 |
| moontiger | i use xubuntu these days ... gnome i guess | 06:30 |
| moontiger | ok i got the .pub file | 06:30 |
| moontiger | now copy to my n810 and voila! yes? | 06:30 |
| gregorovius__ | pretty much | 06:31 |
| moontiger | ok so cool ... thnx so much ... again ! :) | 06:32 |
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| gregorovius__ | funky | 06:33 |
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| moontiger | hmmmmm still not working | 06:35 |
| moontiger | is .ssh/autorized_keys a directory? | 06:37 |
| gregorovius__ | no, it's a file | 06:41 |
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| moontiger | so i rename the .pub file? im confused :| | 06:43 |
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| gregorovius__ | moontiger, copy the contents into the file | 06:48 |
| moontiger | ok i think i got it .... the "cat blah >> blee" thing threw me :/ | 06:48 |
| moontiger | sorry for being dumb ... this stuff is kinda new to me | 06:48 |
| moontiger | i got it now :) | 06:48 |
| moontiger | thnx | 06:48 |
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| _gregorovius_ | no problem :) | 06:49 |
| moontiger | thats so cool :) now i can stop using sbox so much :) | 06:50 |
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| moontiger | way cool ... now i have to fully hildonize my app ... its running ok enough already ... exciting :) | 06:56 |
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| moontiger | omg i can actually edit ON the n810! that is way cool :) | 07:02 |
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| bef0rd | cool moontiger | 07:25 |
| bef0rd | what are you developing on? | 07:25 |
| bef0rd | I mean, python, c? | 07:25 |
| moontiger | well im using python to write a desktop applet | 07:25 |
| moontiger | my first attempt | 07:25 |
| moontiger | :) | 07:25 |
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| bef0rd | oh cool | 07:27 |
| * bef0rd needs some python / gtk help | 07:27 | |
| moontiger | maybe i can help :) | 07:30 |
| moontiger | wassup? | 07:30 |
| moontiger | bef0rd, what do you need help with? | 07:33 |
| bef0rd | heh ok | 07:33 |
| bef0rd | I really know zero about GTK | 07:33 |
| bef0rd | I was trying to make this simple app | 07:34 |
| bef0rd | It'll download a random image from a server every X minutes, and display it | 07:34 |
| bef0rd | This is what I've done so far | 07:36 |
| bef0rd | http://slexy.org/view/s20tOXI9AT | 07:36 |
| bef0rd | I'm new to python as well :P | 07:37 |
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| bef0rd | so, what it does atm is to load the random image but only once the app is loaded | 07:41 |
| bef0rd | I can't figure out how to make it change the image | 07:41 |
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| * moontiger is looking | 07:51 | |
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| moontiger | bef0rd, im looking and i can see some stuff that could be better :) | 07:52 |
| bef0rd | cool :) | 07:53 |
| moontiger | bef0rd, is the image getting saved to the nokia? | 07:53 |
| bef0rd | atm it is | 07:54 |
| bef0rd | I suppose I can add an option to 'cache' the images | 07:54 |
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| bef0rd | if the user disables it, it will delete it before loading it | 07:54 |
| moontiger | so whats not happening? | 07:55 |
| moontiger | ahhhhhhhhh sorry ... i just read above | 07:56 |
| bef0rd | yep that | 07:56 |
| moontiger | btw... all that "window = hildon.Window()" then "self.window = window" isnt necessary | 07:56 |
| moontiger | just do "self.window = hildon.Window()" | 07:57 |
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| moontiger | also... i dont see why you would do threading in this context ... seems unnecessary to me | 07:58 |
| Dekaritae | Could someone test something for me? | 07:58 |
| moontiger | the problem is ... where are you calling the "getcat" function from? | 07:58 |
| Dekaritae | If I try to load this image in Image Viewer, it crashes | 07:58 |
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| moontiger | Dekaritae, what image? | 07:59 |
| Dekaritae | http://dekaritae.nothingtrend.com/uploads/Translink_Vancouver.gif | 07:59 |
| moontiger | Dekaritae, works fine here | 07:59 |
| Dekaritae | Hmm | 08:00 |
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| Dekaritae | Oki thanks | 08:02 |
| bef0rd | moontiger, the 'changeCat' method? | 08:02 |
| moontiger | bef0rd, yes | 08:02 |
| bef0rd | I think I'm calling it from 'outside' of the program class, 'Meow' | 08:03 |
| moontiger | oh i see... | 08:03 |
| moontiger | why not just use a timer inside the class? | 08:03 |
| bef0rd | oh, that could work heh | 08:03 |
| bef0rd | a timer with gobject? | 08:03 |
| bef0rd | or is there any other approach? | 08:04 |
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| moontiger | a gobject.time_out() | 08:04 |
| bef0rd | ok so where should I put the timer? | 08:05 |
| moontiger | there are always many other ways ... some better ... some not so ... its all choice but i would use a gobject.timeout_add() | 08:05 |
| bef0rd | _init? | 08:05 |
| moontiger | well you kick it off in the init function so it starts with the app | 08:05 |
| moontiger | then in the timer handler you re-init it | 08:06 |
| bef0rd | ok | 08:06 |
| * bef0rd tries | 08:06 | |
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| moontiger | have a look in there for some ideas :) | 08:07 |
| bef0rd | thanks | 08:07 |
| bef0rd | let's see if the file transfer works heh | 08:08 |
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| moontiger | try one more time | 08:13 |
| moontiger | or msg me ur email and i'll send | 08:14 |
| bef0rd | thanks, munozferna at gmail.com | 08:14 |
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| moontiger | ok gimme 2mins | 08:16 |
| moontiger | chk email ... from "lauren" ;) | 08:18 |
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| * brontide beats gtk to a bloody pulp | 08:28 | |
| bef0rd | moontiger, thanks again | 08:29 |
| moontiger | bef0rd, glad to help :) | 08:29 |
| moontiger | awwwwwwwwww brontide wassup with gtk now? | 08:29 |
| brontide | Finally figured out that both idle_add and threads require a gtk.gdk.threads_init() and enter/leave blocks, but gobject style stuff doesn't work | 08:29 |
| brontide | Now almost all blocking stuff is idle'ed or threaded under DialCentral fka Grandcentral Dialer and it's far more responsive | 08:30 |
| brontide | ( not that it was bad before ) | 08:30 |
| brontide | ;-) | 08:30 |
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| pupnik | ahha | 09:00 |
| pupnik | ah a | 09:00 |
| pupnik | ahan | 09:00 |
| pupnik | nah | 09:01 |
| n800n | take on me? | 09:01 |
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| zap | uh, uhuh, huhuh, huhhh | 09:02 |
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| moontiger | Khertan, how do i package my applet up for dist? its still rough but it works so i would love to get some feedback from a few users :) | 09:06 |
| * zap hates python applets, they eat up CPU | 09:08 | |
| zap | and battery | 09:08 |
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| n800n | what applet | 09:10 |
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| zap | home* | 09:11 |
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| moontiger | ummmmm sheesh.... im scared to say now :| | 09:12 |
| n800n | don't listen to the python haters | 09:13 |
| moontiger | it get stuff from google calendar and show it on the home screen | 09:13 |
| n800n | cool | 09:13 |
| moontiger | yah well it kinda works for me as i just want to see a scrollable list of events coming up for as far into the future as i choose | 09:14 |
| pupnik | fuck all of us | 09:14 |
| pupnik | death death death comes | 09:14 |
| moontiger | its my forst app for maemo so it has a lot of room for improvement but it does work and do something useful already | 09:14 |
| moontiger | forst = first | 09:15 |
| n800n | moontiger, i'd try it bu i've never used google calendar | 09:15 |
| moontiger | heh i only use it for work stuff ... this means i wont forget appts | 09:15 |
| moontiger | :) | 09:15 |
| n800n | unless | 09:15 |
| n800n | you're offline | 09:15 |
| moontiger | no ... it takes care of that | 09:16 |
| moontiger | has local storage etc etc | 09:16 |
| zap | moontiger: make sure your applet is inactive at least when desktop is invisible | 09:17 |
| pupnik | listen to bach when you die | 09:17 |
| pupnik | you will die | 09:17 |
| zap | moontiger: I've installed yesterday homeip, homediskfree and homecpu and this morning my N810 was dead | 09:17 |
| pupnik | listen to bach | 09:17 |
| pupnik | you will die | 09:18 |
| zap | yes, Bach is a good addition to python applets | 09:18 |
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| n800n | : | 09:18 |
| n800n | ; / | 09:18 |
| n800n | is he ok | 09:18 |
| zap | I hope he's not too drunk :) | 09:18 |
| n800n | oh that's all? | 09:18 |
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| zap | drunk+depression perhaps :) | 09:19 |
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| n800n | they go together | 09:20 |
| n800n | hangovers are there to fix that | 09:20 |
| moontiger | zap: ummmmm ... inactive as in? | 09:20 |
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| moontiger | zap, i c ... this one doesnt poll anything unless you tell it to | 09:21 |
| moontiger | it does an initial data load and leaves it until you refresh | 09:21 |
| moontiger | there is (will be really soon) to set an auto-update period (in hours) | 09:22 |
| moontiger | + an option | 09:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | zap: python applet don t drain battery | 09:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | at least if they are well coded | 09:22 |
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| moontiger | i will leave mine "running" all night to test | 09:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | as when device idle they idle too | 09:23 |
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| moontiger | my understanding is that if i draw something to the home screen and do not update it then no battery drain will occur ... correct? | 09:23 |
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| Khertan_n810 | mine have run 7 days without problem | 09:23 |
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| Khertan_n810 | moontiger: correct | 09:24 |
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| moontiger | Khertan_n810, where can i get your pypackager thingy from? | 09:24 |
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| Khertan_n810 | if you use gobject timeout just shutdown it in the background call back | 09:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | pypackager is available for chinook but not for diablo | 09:25 |
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| Khertan_n810 | as with diablo you can t upload to repository | 09:25 |
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| moontiger | background callback: yes nice ... how then do ipackage my lil thingy ? | 09:25 |
| Khertan_n810 | if you want to diablo repository use py2deb | 09:26 |
| moontiger | ok cool thanks :) | 09:26 |
| moontiger | my app isnt anywhere near as nice as yours are yet but im still learning :) | 09:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | install py2deb and look at /usr/lib/python2.5/site-package/py2deb.py | 09:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | as there is no doc yet | 09:27 |
| moontiger | ok will do | 09:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | i m still learning too | 09:27 |
| moontiger | thnx so much :) | 09:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | and ask if you need help :) | 09:27 |
| moontiger | will do :) | 09:27 |
| moontiger | its a cmdline tool yes? | 09:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://pastebin.com/f367fb9f | 09:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep | 09:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | a makefile for py2deb example | 09:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | in fact the one for mcalendar | 09:31 |
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| moontiger | ahhhhhhh i see ... you made this specific to mcalendar ... so i just edit the stuff i need and run it yes? | 09:31 |
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| Khertan_n810 | it a example of makefile :) | 09:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep edit it | 09:32 |
| moontiger | nice! | 09:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | and then scp to extras builder | 09:32 |
| moontiger | i see you dont put pygtk etc as depends ... can they be relied upon to be there? | 09:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | it depends of what u need | 09:33 |
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| Khertan_n810 | i m back | 09:47 |
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| moontiger | on the cellfone connection? | 10:02 |
| moontiger | Khertan_n810, how did you get those nice transparent backgrounds? is that the cairo stuff? | 10:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep | 10:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | cairo | 10:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep cellphone connection | 10:03 |
| moontiger | doh! i didnt want to do all that stuff but it looks so nice :| | 10:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | at home and work i use the nick Khertan | 10:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 10:04 |
| moontiger | what work do you do? | 10:04 |
| moontiger | if its ok to ask | 10:04 |
| moontiger | brb making some tea | 10:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | i m a software engineer | 10:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | working in small company ... | 10:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | mainly dev using the rad 4d | 10:06 |
| Khertan_n810 | 4d.com | 10:06 |
| Khertan_n810 | a french rad | 10:06 |
| moontiger | nice | 10:07 |
| moontiger | are you going to be in long beach in october? | 10:07 |
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| Khertan_n810 | long beach ? vacancy ... haha no :) | 10:08 |
| Khertan_n810 | s/vacancy/holiday | 10:08 |
| moontiger | shame ... its quite nice there ... i saw the conference thing on ur company home page | 10:08 |
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| moontiger | vacation btw ;) | 10:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | i don t work for 4d i use their tool | 10:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 10:09 |
| moontiger | ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh | 10:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | hehe | 10:09 |
| moontiger | my bad i misunderstood :) | 10:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | i work for naxos ... | 10:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | naxos.fr | 10:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | which has been bought by nexity | 10:09 |
| moontiger | hmmmmm... its all in french ;) | 10:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | yes i know website is horrible | 10:10 |
| moontiger | are u in paris? | 10:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep | 10:10 |
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| moontiger | nice | 10:10 |
| moontiger | im moving to madrid in december :) | 10:11 |
| Khertan_n810 | in fact at 'issy les moulineaux' | 10:11 |
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| Khertan_n810 | a south city of paris | 10:11 |
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| Khertan_n810 | but my office is at 300 of paris border :) | 10:12 |
| Khertan_n810 | 300m | 10:12 |
| moontiger | dont know it ... but i dont know paris so well ... only been there a few times | 10:12 |
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| Khertan_n810 | where do u live ? | 10:12 |
| moontiger | right now im in san francisco | 10:12 |
| Khertan_n810 | never see it irl :) | 10:13 |
| moontiger | its cool enough but im missing europe too much after 5yrs | 10:13 |
| Khertan_n810 | hehe | 10:13 |
| Khertan_n810 | i ve hesitate 2 year ago to go to mineapolis | 10:14 |
| moontiger | mineapolis .... i drove thru it once ... glad to leave | 10:14 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 10:14 |
| moontiger | i lived in nyc before here | 10:14 |
| moontiger | and before that south africa | 10:14 |
| Khertan_n810 | i have a job there ... but my wife can t work nin us | 10:15 |
| Khertan_n810 | s/sin/in | 10:15 |
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| moontiger | shame! i think its going to get better here if obama wins | 10:16 |
| Khertan_n810 | diplonope | 10:16 |
| Khertan_n810 | nope | 10:16 |
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| Khertan_n810 | diplome not recognized | 10:17 |
| moontiger | ahhhhh yes | 10:17 |
| moontiger | they are very strict here | 10:17 |
| Khertan_n810 | she is 'sage-femme' | 10:17 |
| moontiger | ? | 10:17 |
| Khertan_n810 | don t know how we say in english :) | 10:17 |
| moontiger | ahhh midwife | 10:18 |
| moontiger | to help with the babies | 10:18 |
| Khertan_n810 | a less graded doctor that help babyh to born | 10:18 |
| AStorm | yeah midwife | 10:18 |
| Khertan_n810 | midwife ... i ve learn sometning today | 10:18 |
| moontiger | :) | 10:18 |
| moontiger | whats the work situation like in europe these days? | 10:19 |
| AStorm | moontiger: depends on the country :| | 10:19 |
| Khertan_n810 | bad in france ... | 10:19 |
| moontiger | well im heading to madrid to start with | 10:19 |
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| Khertan_n810 | but a bit better for software engineer | 10:20 |
| moontiger | cool ... what languages are used a lot there? | 10:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | economic situation is a bit bad at this time in france | 10:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | language in france ? french :) | 10:20 |
| moontiger | computer languages i mean :)~ | 10:21 |
| Khertan_n810 | java is the hype thing | 10:21 |
| moontiger | oh god ... not java :| | 10:21 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep i hate that things too | 10:22 |
| AStorm | Khertan_n810: impossible | 10:22 |
| aspect | I thought eiffel would be the go in france :) | 10:22 |
| AStorm | it's nowhere near as bad as in Poland | 10:22 |
| moontiger | its all java middle-ware | 10:22 |
| AStorm | well, it is Java suckage here too | 10:22 |
| moontiger | aspect, hahaha | 10:22 |
| AStorm | or .NET suckage | 10:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | there is also many sap / abap need | 10:22 |
| moontiger | eeeesh | 10:22 |
| AStorm | or low-level hardware :D | 10:22 |
| moontiger | hmmmmmmmmmmm that sounds fun | 10:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | .net too is well payed | 10:23 |
| moontiger | .NOT sucks but i can do it | 10:23 |
| AStorm | btw, I need to find something good for our "work practice" at uni | 10:23 |
| AStorm | moontiger: sucks less than Java | 10:23 |
| moontiger | true dat | 10:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | eiffel have never been used | 10:23 |
| AStorm | .nyet is the official codename | 10:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | except in univesity | 10:23 |
| moontiger | eiffel is just a teaching language | 10:23 |
| AStorm | Khertan_n810: and at Ericsson | 10:23 |
| moontiger | ericsson uses eiffel?? | 10:24 |
| AStorm | used | 10:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | seriously ? | 10:24 |
| AStorm | they created it | 10:24 |
| moontiger | ummmmm really? | 10:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | this why it s a so poor language | 10:24 |
| AStorm | check history | 10:24 |
| AStorm | it's unfinished ;P | 10:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | it s not started | 10:24 |
| AStorm | yeah sure | 10:25 |
| moontiger | Bertrand Meyer. | 10:25 |
| moontiger | he invented it | 10:25 |
| AStorm | ok, so, I want something in low-level programming or firmware | 10:25 |
| moontiger | as a demonstration of pure OO concepts | 10:25 |
| AStorm | do you have something in mind? :> | 10:25 |
| AStorm | moontiger: person... but check who backed it | 10:25 |
| Khertan_n810 | as400 is also used in many banks | 10:25 |
| aspect | AStorm: I think you're thinking of erlang :) | 10:25 |
| moontiger | ohhhh | 10:25 |
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| moontiger | i think python is a good OO language | 10:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | obj-c powa ! | 10:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | for low level stuff | 10:26 |
| moontiger | obj-c for iphones? | 10:26 |
| moontiger | is the iphone big over there? | 10:26 |
| AStorm | ARGH | 10:27 |
| AStorm | I;m wrong | 10:27 |
| AStorm | indeed | 10:27 |
| AStorm | aspect: sorry for misinformation | 10:27 |
| AStorm | my mistake | 10:27 |
| AStorm | I thought of Erlang | 10:27 |
| AStorm | Khertan_n810: obj-c isn't bad, but it's a bit... lacking | 10:27 |
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| AStorm | so, I need some fun environment which can sign the pointless "practice contract" with WUT | 10:31 |
| AStorm | which is 3-4 papers | 10:31 |
| Khertan | i m back :) | 10:31 |
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| Khertan | i m at office now :) | 10:32 |
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| Khertan | AStorm: lacking of what , | 10:32 |
| Khertan | ? | 10:32 |
| AStorm | Khertan: of some nice syntax | 10:32 |
| AStorm | you see, message-passing isn't bad, but isn't convenient in many cases | 10:32 |
| Khertan | AStorm: this ... just a point of view | 10:32 |
| AStorm | yes | 10:33 |
| Khertan | i like it ... | 10:33 |
| AStorm | I like it too, more than C++ | 10:33 |
| AStorm | which has too much syntax, which is hacky | 10:33 |
| Khertan | but now i mainly use python ... it s clear that i prefer it ... but for low level stuff ... | 10:33 |
| Khertan | AStorm: personnaly i hate c++ | 10:33 |
| Khertan | it s not a language ... it s a hack | 10:33 |
| AStorm | for low-level stuff, nothing beats C augmented with assembly | 10:33 |
| Khertan | and i hate read or maintain source made by other | 10:34 |
| AStorm | some are nice, like Qt | 10:34 |
| Khertan | Qt ? | 10:34 |
| AStorm | but it's exception, not norm | 10:34 |
| Khertan | it s not a language ... | 10:34 |
| AStorm | I mean, code written by others ;P | 10:34 |
| Khertan | just a framework ... (which i don t like) | 10:34 |
| Khertan | ah :) | 10:34 |
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| Khertan | never see the qt source | 10:35 |
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| AStorm | I guess I'll have to delve into Symbian and work with our resident master ;P | 10:36 |
| AStorm | get some connections | 10:36 |
| moontiger | i like c++ :) | 10:36 |
| moontiger | love asm too | 10:36 |
| AStorm | moontiger: you either don't know it, or don't use it (C++) | 10:37 |
| AStorm | try implementing a general anything in C++ :> | 10:37 |
| moontiger | hmmmm well ive been using it for quite a few years now | 10:37 |
| AStorm | templates *suck* | 10:37 |
| moontiger | i used to write trading systems in c++ | 10:37 |
| AStorm | writing iterators sucks too | 10:37 |
| moontiger | templates are great if you use them properly | 10:37 |
| AStorm | moontiger: ... they suck at their purpose, which is writing generic code | 10:38 |
| AStorm | it's much too hard for its worth | 10:38 |
| moontiger | well thats cos a lot of people cant write good iterators | 10:38 |
| moontiger | so they use stl | 10:38 |
| AStorm | because writing iterators is hard | 10:38 |
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| AStorm | guess why :> | 10:38 |
| moontiger | its not really that hard | 10:38 |
| AStorm | 4 functions would be enough | 10:39 |
| moontiger | first last next prev | 10:39 |
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| AStorm | moontiger: yeah, so, give me a clean iterator example | 10:41 |
| AStorm | which will work over tree nodes | 10:41 |
| AStorm | (linked nodes) | 10:41 |
| AStorm | generic | 10:41 |
| AStorm | I lost a day doing that | 10:42 |
| moontiger | sigly linked or doubly linked nodes? | 10:42 |
| moontiger | singly even | 10:42 |
| AStorm | uhm, it's a tree | 10:42 |
| AStorm | with parent and child nodes | 10:42 |
| AStorm | next is the next child | 10:42 |
| AStorm | prev is the parent | 10:42 |
| AStorm | first and last are tricky :) | 10:42 |
| moontiger | hmmmmm i would prolly use recursion.... but that has problems | 10:43 |
| AStorm | any order of walk is acceptable | 10:43 |
| aspect | next is child or sibling? | 10:43 |
| AStorm | in-order, pre-order and post-order | 10:43 |
| AStorm | aspect: any is acceptable :> | 10:43 |
| AStorm | I prefer top-to-bottom, = in-order | 10:44 |
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| aspect | AStorm: no, I'm asking about your ADT. If you only have next/prev pointers it's not a tree afaict | 10:44 |
| AStorm | there is no "sibling" pointer | 10:44 |
| AStorm | aspect: it has only parent and child pointers | 10:44 |
| AStorm | standard tree | 10:44 |
| aspect | ok, I misunderstood what you said earlier | 10:44 |
| AStorm | multiple children | 10:44 |
| moontiger | ahhhhhhhhh so not a binary tree | 10:45 |
| * aspect doesn't hold enough c++ in his head to write the code anyway :) | 10:45 | |
| aspect | it's trivial in scheme :) | 10:45 |
| AStorm | moontiger: if it were a binary tree, I could make it an array | 10:45 |
| AStorm | that is simple | 10:45 |
| AStorm | aspect: it's trivial in Python too | 10:45 |
| atul | Hi all, How do I install apt-pkg inside scratch-box | 10:45 |
| atul | ? | 10:45 |
| moontiger | except arrays have different performance metrics to binary trees | 10:45 |
| AStorm | atul: it should be there | 10:45 |
| AStorm | moontiger: no, different memory metrics | 10:46 |
| aspect | AStorm: not as trivial as in Scheme, I'll bet :) | 10:46 |
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| AStorm | aspect: close enough, but you're right :> | 10:46 |
| * moontiger thinks about it | 10:47 | |
| AStorm | a specialization of the tree will walk an SQL database | 10:47 |
| atul | AStorm:= but when my application donig ./configure it is giving error message like "checking apt-pkg/configuration.h usability... no" why so ? | 10:47 |
| * Khertan laught as he use a high level language :) | 10:47 | |
| AStorm | atul: it's probably missing apt-dev or sth | 10:47 |
| AStorm | Khertan: I would too, I prefer Python also | 10:48 |
| moontiger | well the trick is knowing if you have a sibling or need to cross a boundary | 10:48 |
| AStorm | BUT stupid companies prefer C++ | 10:48 |
| atul | AStorm:= what to do ? Do I need to install apt-dev ? | 10:48 |
| AStorm | moontiger: You have to move upwards to get a sibling | 10:48 |
| moontiger | right | 10:48 |
| * aspect doesn't mind low level languages when they're appropriate .. but c++ suffers from layer upon layer of ad-hoc greenspunning | 10:48 | |
| AStorm | note, siblings "don't exist" unless you prod them | 10:48 |
| aspect | you keep a stack. isn't that how trees are always traversed? | 10:48 |
| AStorm | (as I said, I want to walk an SQL database representation of the tree) | 10:48 |
| AStorm | aspect: it's too heavy | 10:49 |
| moontiger | yah | 10:49 |
| AStorm | I want to close unneeded nodes | 10:49 |
| aspect | AStorm: ? | 10:49 |
| AStorm | aspect: nodes have to be "open" only when needed | 10:49 |
| AStorm | the representation will be used for A* | 10:49 |
| aspect | did I say anything about opening nodes? | 10:49 |
| AStorm | no, but you said you want to keep everything on a stack | 10:50 |
| AStorm | so can't free it if required | 10:50 |
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| aspect | to visit a subtree you visit its root, if there's more than 1 child you push the root paired with the integer 1, then visit the subtree rooted at its first child | 10:50 |
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| moontiger | in what context would you use such a DS | 10:50 |
| moontiger | ? | 10:50 |
| aspect | if you can traverse a tree without keeping track of the info I'm putting on the stack, you should write a paper | 10:51 |
| AStorm | aspect: I want to lose the already traversed tree, thank you | 10:51 |
| AStorm | let me say again | 10:51 |
| aspect | so you push the remaining children | 10:51 |
| AStorm | I want a breadth-first iterator | 10:51 |
| AStorm | remaining children, yes | 10:51 |
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| AStorm | but w/o "loading" them | 10:51 |
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| AStorm | make that into C++ iterator | 10:51 |
| aspect | well, yes | 10:51 |
| aspect | you can push a pointer/reference/handle etc without dereferencing it. that would be standard practice I'd assume. unless you're a javanaut ;-) | 10:52 |
| AStorm | aspect: this is correct, problem is passing the stack to the iterators | 10:52 |
| AStorm | it either has to be global, or kept in some root structure | 10:52 |
| AStorm | tree-global | 10:53 |
| aspect | I'd have assumed it's internal to the iterator | 10:53 |
| AStorm | now, let's say I want to have concurrent access | 10:53 |
| aspect | but then, I don't care to know this much about c++ :-) | 10:53 |
| AStorm | ;P | 10:53 |
| atul | AStorm:= what to do ? Do I need to install apt-dev ?? | 10:53 |
| AStorm | atul: I think so | 10:53 |
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| atul | HI all "checking apt-pkg/configuration.h usability... no" How to resolve this ? | 10:53 |
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| AStorm | atul: ... you need development headers for apt | 10:54 |
| AStorm | this means you want apt-dev | 10:54 |
| atul | AStorm:= I tryied that but it is failing | 10:54 |
| AStorm | install it | 10:54 |
| AStorm | huh how? | 10:54 |
| moontiger | AStorm, when would you use a sturcture like this? | 10:54 |
| AStorm | moontiger: breadth-first traversal? for A* (with minor modifications, like sorting on load) | 10:54 |
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| AStorm | so, I need to keep an iterator-local stack | 10:55 |
| moontiger | sorting on load? wouldnt a simple binary tree do that? | 10:55 |
| AStorm | ... | 10:55 |
| AStorm | it's a stack actually | 10:56 |
| AStorm | how do I pass it | 10:56 |
| AStorm | it should be iterator-local | 10:56 |
| moontiger | pass it to what? | 10:57 |
| moontiger | im obviously not getting something here | 10:57 |
| AStorm | either to the recursive or non-recursive iterator | 10:57 |
| AStorm | actually, I could do a non-recursive specialized iterator | 10:57 |
| AStorm | but I want a generic one | 10:57 |
| moontiger | if you use recursion dont you risk stack over-run? | 10:58 |
| AStorm | generic breadth-first on a tree which is expanded in each iteration | 10:58 |
| AStorm | moontiger: well, it doesn't have to be recursive | 10:58 |
| AStorm | just generic | 10:58 |
| AStorm | trick is tree is extended in each iteration | 10:59 |
| moontiger | im not getting the purpose of the structure so its hard for me to get my head around the problem | 10:59 |
| moontiger | ahhhhhhhhh | 10:59 |
| moontiger | on load | 10:59 |
| moontiger | ok | 10:59 |
| moontiger | i get it | 10:59 |
| AStorm | also, there may be tree inserts too | 10:59 |
| moontiger | do the parent nodes know how many child nodes they have? | 10:59 |
| AStorm | how many, yes, but you can't know how many children the children have w/o loading them | 11:00 |
| AStorm | which is expensive | 11:00 |
| moontiger | right | 11:00 |
| moontiger | what did you come up with? | 11:01 |
| AStorm | I died at it | 11:01 |
| AStorm | in Python, it took a day to write the whole app | 11:01 |
| AStorm | because I can dynamically vary the structure in Python | 11:02 |
| moontiger | essentially each node would have to be a linked list (in c++) | 11:02 |
| AStorm | this is wrong | 11:02 |
| AStorm | it has to be a tree | 11:03 |
| AStorm | not tree of linked lists | 11:03 |
| moontiger | hmmmm | 11:03 |
| AStorm | there are no horizontal links | 11:03 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:03 |
| moontiger | ok | 11:03 |
| AStorm | ok, I lied | 11:03 |
| moontiger | interesting problem | 11:03 |
| AStorm | there are horizontal links | 11:03 |
| AStorm | it's apparently not a tree | 11:04 |
| AStorm | but a generic graph | 11:04 |
| moontiger | then its a "tree" of linked lists... each child node points to its parent node | 11:05 |
| AStorm | uhm, it's a graph, no linked lists | 11:05 |
| moontiger | ach!! | 11:05 |
| AStorm | it's a graph with one root node | 11:05 |
| moontiger | right ... but it has child nodes | 11:05 |
| AStorm | there can be only one parent | 11:05 |
| AStorm | but there can be loops | 11:05 |
| AStorm | :> | 11:05 |
| moontiger | ie, a list each of which point to their immediate parent | 11:05 |
| moontiger | and so on down | 11:06 |
| moontiger | im confused why that wouldnt work? | 11:06 |
| AStorm | might be, yes | 11:06 |
| AStorm | note, there can be loops | 11:06 |
| AStorm | you don't want to traverse them indefinitely | 11:06 |
| moontiger | that would be checking for circular refs i presume | 11:06 |
| AStorm | so a stack is needed | 11:06 |
| AStorm | yes | 11:06 |
| moontiger | a stack with only as many slots to hold to max potential loop size | 11:07 |
| AStorm | actually, in this algorithm, cycles are beneficial, they cut traversal time | 11:07 |
| AStorm | moontiger: with infinitely many slots | 11:07 |
| AStorm | so dynamically allocated | 11:07 |
| moontiger | right ... i just realized that | 11:07 |
| moontiger | yes | 11:07 |
| AStorm | and with nodes closed when not needed anymore | 11:07 |
| AStorm | so, a GC'd stack | 11:07 |
| moontiger | but you only have to keep track of the current path so to speak | 11:07 |
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| moontiger | sounds interesting tho :) | 11:08 |
| moontiger | i like messing with data structures | 11:08 |
| AStorm | moontiger: current path and next possible hits :) | 11:10 |
| moontiger | oh yah .. i see that | 11:10 |
| AStorm | the hard part is the GC'd stack | 11:10 |
| moontiger | hmmmmmmm yes | 11:11 |
| AStorm | high-level languages give you cheap and easy GC | 11:11 |
| Khertan | GC ? | 11:11 |
| moontiger | well ... its easy if it can take 4 days to run ;) | 11:11 |
| Khertan | garbage collector :) | 11:11 |
| Khertan | ;) | 11:11 |
| moontiger | garbage collection | 11:11 |
| Khertan | sorry : | 11:11 |
| Khertan | :) | 11:11 |
| moontiger | AStorm, but it isnt too hard to write your own stack allocator | 11:12 |
| yacoob | hm... what do you people use for storing passwords on the tablet? | 11:12 |
| moontiger | files? | 11:12 |
| yacoob | that's very... generic :) | 11:12 |
| moontiger | sorry .... its late :) | 11:12 |
| * moontiger is feeling generic | 11:13 | |
| yacoob | moontiger, but do you mean that you just keep stuff in a text file and gpg it in/out when needed? | 11:13 |
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| moontiger | yacoob, actually i dont know ... i was thinking about it today myself ... right now its a home made enc stuffed in a database | 11:14 |
| AStorm | yacoob: actually, I keep passwords in my head | 11:14 |
| AStorm | it works | 11:14 |
| moontiger | but i would like to use mcrypt or something | 11:14 |
| lbt | look for and maybe port passwordsafe | 11:15 |
| lbt | counterpane version | 11:15 |
| yacoob | both password safe and gpasman suck in a different ways :) | 11:15 |
| lbt | yeah, security is like that | 11:15 |
| yacoob | on palm I was using cryptopad, and someone had a noble goal of making a similar app, but apparently got devoured by pack of angry rhinos some time ago | 11:16 |
| moontiger | i'll add it to my list when i get some time | 11:16 |
| moontiger | and i'll watch out for hungry rhinos | 11:16 |
| moontiger | ;) | 11:16 |
| AStorm | train your memory | 11:17 |
| AStorm | and make good passwords | 11:17 |
| yacoob | moontiger, if you'd be aiming for anything like that: I'm actually looking for storing notes, not only passwords. That's why both of existing software suck. | 11:17 |
| yacoob | AStorm, good luck memorizing pgp revocation certificate :D | 11:17 |
| AStorm | yacoob: storing notes == maemopad+ | 11:17 |
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| yacoob | does it encrypt them in any way? | 11:18 |
| AStorm | yacoob: well, that I keep on a safe CD | 11:18 |
| AStorm | no | 11:18 |
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| moontiger | is there no encryption functionality on maemo? | 11:20 |
| yacoob | there's plenty, it's lack of the userfriendly interface that aches | 11:20 |
| XTL | There must be. Any particular kind? | 11:20 |
| moontiger | i mean a programmer lib that i can use to make a simple app | 11:20 |
| * Khertan have tryed to port pycripto to maemo ... to be able to port revelation | 11:21 | |
| AStorm | gpg is there, right? | 11:21 |
| moontiger | any luck khertan? | 11:21 |
| Khertan | nope ... i ve scratched my scratchbox install :) | 11:21 |
| XTL | The usual ssl libs are also there | 11:21 |
| Khertan | but if someone make it available in extras-devel i would be happy :) | 11:21 |
| Khertan | http://oss.codepoet.no/revelation/ | 11:22 |
| XTL | and libcrypt | 11:22 |
| moontiger | is pycrypto just a recompile away? | 11:22 |
| Khertan | GTK+ 2.4, GNOME 2.6, Python 2.3, | 11:23 |
| Khertan | pygtk 2.4, gnome-python 2.6, pycrypto 1.9, and Cracklib | 11:23 |
| Khertan | moontiger > it should be | 11:23 |
| yacoob | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=cryptochest is there, although it looks a bit abandoned | 11:25 |
| moontiger | ok well i canhave a go at that ... i have a scratchbox running still | 11:25 |
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| moontiger | im off to bed ... im tired ... nn all ... thnx for the conversations :) | 11:28 |
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| florian | good morning | 11:38 |
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| GDE | hi | 11:54 |
| GDE | is there a way to transfer files from my PC to the 810 via LAN? | 11:55 |
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| GDE | wifi | 11:55 |
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| XTL | Sure. Pick any one. | 12:00 |
| GDE | pardon? | 12:01 |
| XTL | Iow, whatever sw you have on both. sch/sftp/http/ftp/tftp/rcp/uucp/netcat+rzsz... | 12:01 |
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| XTL | It's just a network connection :9 | 12:01 |
| XTL | And most work in either push or pull | 12:01 |
| XTL | .. both ways around | 12:01 |
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| GDE | thanks | 12:02 |
| GDE | is there a good ftp client for the maemo? | 12:03 |
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| XTL | Good and ftp don't go together :) | 12:04 |
| GDE | :( | 12:05 |
| GDE | which way would be the easiest to setup? :p | 12:05 |
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| usicow | subversion isnt available in the normal 'extras' repository, but I can see it at http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/s/subversion/. Is that something which isnt ready to be used or something? (Im new to maemo). | 12:34 |
| lcuk2 | usicow, i use svn from my tablet | 12:35 |
| aquatix | lcuk2: on a fat partition? | 12:35 |
| lcuk2 | chinook is the previous release of the os which might explain why you cant directly put it on | 12:35 |
| lcuk2 | aquatix, what does fat have to do with it? but no its mmc1 which is an ext2 partition | 12:36 |
| usicow | lcuk2: ahh, I see.. ok so how did you install svn? | 12:36 |
| lcuk2 | i have chinook :) | 12:36 |
| usicow | ah | 12:36 |
| usicow | :) | 12:36 |
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| usicow | it wont work on Diablo? | 12:36 |
| lcuk2 | apt-get install svn-specific-name-whatever-it-was | 12:36 |
| lcuk2 | it should | 12:36 |
| lcuk2 | add the repo and try :P | 12:36 |
| aquatix | lcuk2: well, i tried checking out a repository and i got some errors about locks iirc | 12:37 |
| usicow | ok, also is there a way I can just download the .deb file and install it without adding the repository? | 12:37 |
| aquatix | apt-get install subversion | 12:37 |
| lcuk2 | aquatix, it doesnt complain for me - works nicely and ive checked out a number of rojects and pushed changes back | 12:37 |
| aquatix | usicow: yes | 12:37 |
| lcuk2 | usicow, just download from within the folder you posted | 12:38 |
| lcuk2 | and try it | 12:38 |
| aquatix | usicow: just download the .deb and on the tablet do "dpkg -i subversion_blah.deb" | 12:38 |
| aquatix | [as root] | 12:38 |
| lcuk2 | or double tap from the filemanager ;) | 12:38 |
| aquatix | ah yeah :) | 12:38 |
| lcuk2 | and let the isntaller do its stuff | 12:38 |
| usicow | aquatix: great thanks | 12:38 |
| aquatix | usicow: and what lcuk2 says ;) | 12:38 |
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| * lcuk hadnt noticed he wasnt logged in | 12:39 | |
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| usicow | is there a nice program for maemo that shows CPU usage? | 12:49 |
| AStorm | loadapplet? | 12:51 |
| AStorm | also, there's top | 12:51 |
| AStorm | and probably someone could build htop | 12:52 |
| lcuk | usicow, yes, but its top secret and closed source and you cannot even have the binary for it or even see pictures of it | 12:52 |
| lcuk | (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/load-applet/) | 12:52 |
| yacoob | in fact, one of Nokia associates will be with lcuk shortly to terminate him. | 12:52 |
| lcuk | damn | 12:52 |
| AStorm | hell, they'll kill ITT and Google for it | 12:52 |
| lcuk | it was worth it in the end, information should be free | 12:52 |
| AStorm | Long Live Freedom! | 12:53 |
| yacoob | too bad load-applet doesn't show more stats in the drop down, though. | 12:53 |
| lcuk | hold on, someone at the door | 12:53 |
| AStorm | hmmh? | 12:53 |
| yacoob | hm, I can simply make a patch... :) | 12:53 |
| lcuk | yes you could, if you do decide to dive in, would you find out if it tirelessly updates itself even if the device is locked and screen turned off | 12:54 |
| lcuk | cos it would be really wasteful to show information to nothing | 12:54 |
| AStorm | heh, it needs some dbus support to disable itself | 12:54 |
| lcuk | i had a thought about it being a battery drain when i last had it installed | 12:55 |
| AStorm | no, it's not a major battery drain I found out | 12:55 |
| usicow | load-applet drains the battery? | 12:55 |
| AStorm | not by any noticeable amount | 12:55 |
| lcuk | but because its tirelessly ticking over and refreshing itself its doing quite a lot | 12:55 |
| AStorm | it's ticking rarely enough | 12:56 |
| lcuk | it was just a thought | 12:56 |
| AStorm | so it doesn't speed up CPU | 12:56 |
| AStorm | doesn't wake it often enough from C3 | 12:56 |
| lcuk | no but it pushes data to the lcd every second - does the lcd chip have to wake back up to accept the data even if the screen is off | 12:56 |
| AStorm | no, it doesn't apparently | 12:57 |
| lcuk | and what does it use for its sleep cycle | 12:57 |
| AStorm | at least not when dsme is active | 12:57 |
| AStorm | it uses sleep(1); | 12:57 |
| AStorm | that is, one second | 12:57 |
| lcuk | all i was asking was whether it does actually say "ok, the user has display turned off, maybe i should hold off on updating | 12:57 |
| AStorm | it doesn't | 12:58 |
| Khertan | someone have successfully use a usb mouse with an n8x0 ? | 12:58 |
| AStorm | but it doesn't take a lot of power either | 12:58 |
| AStorm | really, I should try to measure both stress and wait times | 12:58 |
| gomiam | Khertan: not me. I don't even know how the mouse pointer would show up. | 12:58 |
| AStorm | you just have to replace the invisible cursor ;P | 12:58 |
| lcuk | gomiam, the theme for maemo DOES have a mouse pointer, its just a transparant square - it can be replaced with a proper one | 12:59 |
| AStorm | Khertan: I was too lazy to do that | 12:59 |
| lcuk | infact, sometimes you see the x pointer | 12:59 |
| AStorm | Khertan: it requires a powered hub most likely too | 12:59 |
| Khertan | yep ... i'm just thinking to use my n8x0 with an external display an usb keyboard and a mouse | 12:59 |
| Khertan | :) | 12:59 |
| gomiam | AStorm: probably not. If a keyboard can work directly, a mouse energy consumption shouldn't be a worry, methinks. | 13:00 |
| lcuk | not all keyboards work, check the Ma rating on the device you wanna use | 13:00 |
| Khertan | gomiam: optical mouse use more power than a keyboard :) | 13:00 |
| lcuk | then get a ball mouse | 13:00 |
| Khertan | the Ma rating ? | 13:00 |
| lcuk | power | 13:00 |
| Khertan | i ll use a usb hub | 13:00 |
| lcuk | 100ma max current draw from usb OTG host | 13:01 |
| AStorm | powered hub, too | 13:01 |
| AStorm | lcuk: I suspect if you push it, the USB could provide 200 mA | 13:01 |
| Khertan | as it will be too use at home | 13:01 |
| lcuk | no astorm, it wont | 13:01 |
| lcuk | it has current limiters afiak | 13:01 |
| AStorm | it will, if you force it | 13:01 |
| AStorm | yes, it does | 13:01 |
| AStorm | can disable these | 13:01 |
| gomiam | anyway, I don't really mind. I already have a USB ultra-slim hub and its power source :-) | 13:02 |
| AStorm | goodie | 13:02 |
| lcuk | hmmm, its official spec and you cant go beyond it | 13:02 |
| Khertan | and about vga<->usb .... | 13:02 |
| AStorm | lcuk: yes, it's a hack | 13:02 |
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| AStorm | Khertan: definitely more than 100 mA | 13:02 |
| AStorm | and you need a driver | 13:02 |
| Khertan | what is the state of the driver project ? | 13:02 |
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| Khertan | you know the name of the project ? | 13:03 |
| lcuk | bbl | 13:03 |
| Khertan | i m looking for it on itt ... but it s painfull | 13:03 |
| AStorm | Khertan: the driver is there, but not built for maemo | 13:05 |
| AStorm | sis-something driver | 13:06 |
| AStorm | probably sisusb or something like it | 13:06 |
| AStorm | as it's the only vga<->usb I know of | 13:06 |
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| Khertan | noone have tryed to use it on a nit yet ? | 13:06 |
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| Khertan | xsisusb | 13:08 |
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| Khertan | hum ... to mirroring screen it use vncserver | 13:14 |
| Khertan | 89,69 the adaptator ... ouch | 13:15 |
| Khertan | Euros | 13:15 |
| Kegetys | you can get one for ~34e from dealextreme | 13:16 |
| Kegetys | 35 | 13:16 |
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| Khertan | hum i don't know it | 13:27 |
| AFBN810 | Khertan I didn't get that email | 13:27 |
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| Khertan | AFBN810 ? | 13:28 |
| AFBN810 | The mcontacts one its andrewfblack | 13:29 |
| Khertan | Kegetys > i don't find it on dealextrem | 13:29 |
| Khertan | AFBN810: ah sorry don't recognize you | 13:29 |
| Khertan | AFBN810: i ve send it yesterday with modest | 13:29 |
| Kegetys | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4838 | 13:29 |
| Kegetys | seems the price has gone up a bit since I ordered, but much cheaper anyway | 13:29 |
| AFBN810 | andrewfblack@gmail.com? | 13:30 |
| Khertan | yep | 13:30 |
| Khertan | i ll send it you again ... | 13:31 |
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| Khertan | Kegetys: do u use it with a nit ? | 13:31 |
| AFBN810 | do you remember the email subject so I can search for it might be in spam | 13:31 |
| Kegetys | Khertan: it hasn't arrived yet | 13:31 |
| Khertan | as it s not the same as the tested one ... | 13:32 |
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| Kegetys | as far as I can tell it is the same one, same chipset etc. | 13:32 |
| Kegetys | I should get mine tomorrow hopefully so I can test it then | 13:33 |
| Khertan | if it s the same chipset it should be ok | 13:33 |
| lcuk | \o/ w000t i'm going on a european vacation - i get to see 3 different germany cities on this trip | 13:36 |
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| * lcuk wonders why there are no direct flights from manchester to berlin | 13:37 | |
| lbt | does anyone use their N800 as a car stereo? | 13:37 |
| lcuk | lbt, wasnt there that car stats thing which would work | 13:37 |
| AFBN810 | khertan I didn't get it can you send it out again? | 13:38 |
| lcuk | oh crap, bbl | 13:38 |
| Khertan | AFBN810: yep i ll send it again ... | 13:38 |
| Khertan | ouch dealextrem have very poor ratings ... | 13:39 |
| AFBN810 | thanks | 13:39 |
| Khertan | hum ... someone know where is the x11vnc server package ? | 13:42 |
| Khertan | can t found it | 13:42 |
| Khertan | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/x11vnc/ | 13:42 |
| Khertan | hum ... if i ve wrote x11 instead of x12 in google ... | 13:43 |
| Kegetys | ratings? | 13:43 |
| Khertan | someone have hacked microsoft france ? : http://www.microsoft.com/france/windows/products/windowsvista/features/experiences/music/default.mspx | 13:46 |
| Khertan | kegetys: many review made by french customers are bad ... | 13:46 |
| Khertan | bye ... | 13:48 |
| Kegetys | well I havent had any problems and I have ordered alot of stuff from them | 13:48 |
| Kegetys | though I'm not french :P | 13:48 |
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| eichi | is there a way to give the gps information from a external bluetooth device from the maemo device to a third device (like mobile phone)? | 13:50 |
| nomis | eichi: I guess it would be possible although I doubt that it is easy with the software on the tablet. Should not be too hard though for someone with bluez knowledge. | 13:54 |
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| crashanddie | lbt, yeah, I used my n810 for that | 13:55 |
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| crashanddie | lbt, I had it mounted on the windscreen, audio connector into aux in for the car stereo, works fine | 13:56 |
| lbt | crashanddie: just wondering if/how people had done it | 13:56 |
| lbt | maybe an external usb drive? | 13:57 |
| lbt | do you use canola? | 13:57 |
| crashanddie | yeah, I used canola | 13:57 |
| crashanddie | canola is much more finger friendly, and using the stylus whilst driving is a big no-no | 13:57 |
| lbt | not seen canola yet - just installing | 13:58 |
| * ariya thinks canola2 rocks | 13:59 | |
| Kegetys | I prefer mediabox | 13:59 |
| crashanddie | I never used an external hard drive on my NIT, but I did have an external drive which was directly connected to the stereo | 13:59 |
| lbt | I'll see what the sound quality is like on a decent hifi... | 14:00 |
| lbt | I've not even listened to an mp3 on it yet ;) | 14:00 |
| * lbt really must actually *use* nut | 14:01 | |
| glass | some car-radios do a2dp | 14:01 |
| lbt | <grin> | 14:01 |
| lbt | I need a decent amp that takes pcm over wifi... | 14:01 |
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| lbt | oops - gotta go ... bbl | 14:02 |
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| lardman | morning all | 14:04 |
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| usicow | when I open an xterm window, I'd like it to be full screen - as in no typing assistant or anything.. just a 100% full screen text terminal window. Is that possible? I cant seem to get rid of the typing assistant thing. | 14:11 |
| lbt | porting.... maemo is based on an upstream debian. Which one? I can't put the upstream deb into my scratchbox (obvioulsy) but I should be able to put the deb-src in... | 14:14 |
| XTL | You mean the esc-tab-... line? | 14:14 |
| XTL | usicow: menu/view/show toolbar/fullscreen off | 14:15 |
| usicow | XTL: nah, I worked out how to remove that one.. its one that Im seeing below that.. all it says on the right hand side is 'abc'. | 14:15 |
| XTL | Was it fn-space that should popdown that | 14:15 |
| Kegetys | you can remove that entirely by disabling the preidiction & dictionary things from control panel | 14:15 |
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| usicow | XTL: doesnt seem to work.. but at least you know of something that is capable of removing it :) I'll hunt around more.. any idea what that bar is called by the way? | 14:17 |
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| XTL | usicow: Can't recall. It doesn't appear on mine. Did you have a look at Kegetys's setting? | 14:18 |
| usicow | is kegety a person? :) | 14:21 |
| Kegetys | huh? | 14:21 |
| lbt | maybe another way - what version of debian is diablo based on? If any? | 14:22 |
| usicow | ohhh sorry Kegetys I missed what you said. | 14:22 |
| usicow | hmm | 14:22 |
| usicow | thanks. I'll disbale it. | 14:22 |
| usicow | perfect :) | 14:23 |
| XTL | lbt: There's an answer to that buried somewhere in mailing list, itt or docs. I can't recall. | 14:23 |
| XTL | A somewhat older version, I think :) | 14:23 |
| lbt | I've been digging!!! | 14:23 |
| XTL | I don't see it immediately either. :) | 14:23 |
| lbt | I guess it is old - which is fine | 14:23 |
| lbt | did you catch my objective? | 14:24 |
| XTL | But you should be able to pull from any upstream you want and rebuild. | 14:24 |
| lbt | to add a deb-src to scratchbox | 14:24 |
| lbt | for portin | 14:24 |
| lbt | g | 14:24 |
| lbt | yes but | 14:24 |
| lbt | I want to port autofs | 14:24 |
| XTL | Yes. I've done that for random backports from testing to stable sometimes. | 14:24 |
| lbt | which depends on libraries | 14:24 |
| lbt | and I want to minimise version conflicts | 14:24 |
| XTL | There may be problems, of course, but it should essentially work. | 14:24 |
| lbt | I've done it for ddd | 14:25 |
| lbt | quite a chain - but simple | 14:25 |
| XTL | The libraries you build against should match the tablet. | 14:25 |
| lbt | but then I end up building more libraries | 14:25 |
| XTL | Either they come from the sdk (match) or you built them yourself (match) | 14:25 |
| lbt | and have build-dep version issues | 14:25 |
| lbt | when I'm 5 deep | 14:25 |
| XTL | If the sw you want demands too new libs and you don't want to port those, you'd need to adapt the package/sw to use older libs. | 14:26 |
| lbt | or just use the older version (which is probably fine) | 14:26 |
| lbt | which is where I came in... | 14:26 |
| lbt | :D | 14:26 |
| XTL | :) | 14:26 |
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| lbt | I think my proposal is a safe way to build any debian package without needing to 'adapt' | 14:27 |
| lbt | (non-gui of course) | 14:28 |
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| Italodance | www.internettablettalk.com down? | 14:57 |
| lbt | no | 14:59 |
| Italodance | long loading... | 14:59 |
| lbt | no :) | 14:59 |
| lbt | face it, it's you. | 14:59 |
| Italodance | strange | 15:00 |
| lbt | are you? | 15:00 |
| Italodance | just can see a white page | 15:00 |
| lbt | I'm getting the usual site, and I'm logged in | 15:01 |
| lcuk | Italodance, step into the light | 15:02 |
| XTL | I'm getting orange boxes that slowly dissolve into the normal page | 15:02 |
| XTL | Though a while ago, wiki disappear and "it was just me". | 15:03 |
| lcuk | the orange default colours before the theme is applied are awful - it would make the site much more pleasant if they were default colours in the unstyled page | 15:03 |
| XTL | I think web forum users deserve all the unpleasantness you can throw at them. | 15:04 |
| lcuk | and they return the love to you in the form of IRC trolls spamming goatse wrapped in nokia informative link clothing | 15:04 |
| Italodance | who? | 15:04 |
| lcuk | xtl | 15:04 |
| Italodance | oh | 15:05 |
| Italodance | lol | 15:05 |
| lbt | XTL: I agree - web forums <shudder> | 15:05 |
| lcuk | theres nothing at all wrong with a forum, they work really well | 15:05 |
| lbt | uh huh | 15:05 |
| lbt | we've had this debate | 15:05 |
| lbt | you're wrong | 15:05 |
| lbt | <grin> | 15:05 |
| lcuk | though i prefer the moderated comment system slashdot has - it lets you see the signal whilst dropping the noise | 15:06 |
| lbt | does the n8x0 sound chip allow spdif out through the headphone? | 15:06 |
| lcuk | though they screwed that up recently by defaulting to first 25 comments - thats all people moderate on, the rest below are like a barran wasteland | 15:07 |
| XTL | I also find reddit's comment system pretty well-working | 15:10 |
| XTL | But what you usually come against is the typical phpBB | 15:10 |
| XTL | Mmm.. yabb.pl, was it | 15:11 |
| XTL | I'm sure there's a few more nightmares. But they all look the same and breed the same culture. | 15:12 |
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| herwood | hi, has someone had any problems when developing own statusbar plugins? | 15:33 |
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| herwood | i'm having these strange problems that when I install my own plugin, everything works fine, but if I keep on installing and uninstalling it then at some stage some of the other icons disappear. | 15:39 |
| herwood | I've also had a couple of time an "effect" where the whole screen turns white and every application is minimized and after a while, everything gets reloaded. | 15:40 |
| herwood | Has anyone had similar problems? | 15:40 |
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| herwood | btw, the hello world app (which also creates icon to the statusbar) works perfectly | 15:41 |
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| Khertan | herwood: you get that because your plugin crash | 15:46 |
| Khertan | making maemo-launcher crashing | 15:46 |
| herwood | hmm | 15:46 |
| Khertan | so at the reboot it load a default config to avoir cycling crash | 15:46 |
| herwood | I was thinking that too | 15:46 |
| herwood | could I get some log-printing somehow so I could trace the problem? | 15:47 |
| Khertan | i use the old method of stdout in a file :) | 15:49 |
| herwood | aa, ok :) | 15:49 |
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| herwood | I'll try that, thanks | 15:49 |
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| brontide | Khertan: PyDeb or PyPackager, which is easier for uploading to extras | 15:59 |
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| jott | herwood: take a look at advanced-backlight, i added some debug code there to make the plugin run as standalone. see the #ifdef TEST_PLUGIN sections. | 16:01 |
| jott | it's easier to attach gdb this way and you don't have to worry about taking down the whole desktop :) | 16:02 |
| herwood | thanks jott | 16:03 |
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| Khertan | brontide: py2deb is easier to upload to diablo extras ... as you can't with pypackager :) | 16:11 |
| Khertan | as package should be built with autobuilder | 16:11 |
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| brontide | thanks, do you have a crash course for py2deb ( help / wiki / random scribbles ) or is it intuative? | 16:12 |
| brontide | and I assume it's meant to be run on-tablet | 16:12 |
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| lbt | so apt-get update gives me: | 16:13 |
| lbt | W: GPG error: http://www.mirrorservice.org etch Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' | 16:13 |
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| lbt | in scratchbox | 16:13 |
| lbt | I can't install debian-archive-keyring ('cos I only have their deb-src) | 16:14 |
| lbt | so any ideas on how to tell apt-get to JFDI | 16:14 |
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| crashanddie | anyone got any link to get ssh-agent to work in scratchbox ? | 16:15 |
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| XTL | Is there some specific problem with it? | 16:16 |
| crashanddie | well, ssh-agent is the app that's supposed to remember your SSH-key passphrase, so you don't have to type it everytime | 16:16 |
| crashanddie | right ? | 16:16 |
| XTL | You could say that | 16:17 |
| yacoob | I haven't yet looked for that, but perhaps someone can tell me from top of his/her head - can you use scratchbox on osx? | 16:17 |
| jott | lbt: you could just get the debs from debian, they should install fine. | 16:17 |
| XTL | yacoob: In an emulator, at least | 16:17 |
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| XTL | Natively, it might be tricky/fidgety | 16:17 |
| crashanddie | XTL, well, I have my SSH-key in ~/.ssh, but even when I explicitly launch ssh-agent, it keeps asking for my passphrase | 16:18 |
| jott | yacoob: in theory it could work but i think no one really tried :) | 16:18 |
| crashanddie | XTL, and well, my passphrase just isn't that short, and I'm getting tired of typing it everytime I compile something | 16:18 |
| yacoob | right :) | 16:18 |
| XTL | Hmm.. | 16:18 |
| XTL | I think ssh-agent is supposed to run a shell (or other command) and pass its env vars there | 16:19 |
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| jott | yacoob: i think the easiest way is to get the vmware image if you are on x86 :) | 16:19 |
| XTL | If you just run it, it launches, prints out the env... | 16:20 |
| jott | crashanddie: you could also use a ControlMaster and keep a session open :) | 16:20 |
| XTL | and stays in the bg. You should run the commands it outputs | 16:20 |
| crashanddie | jott, eh ? | 16:20 |
| XTL | Or run "ssh-agent bash" or such | 16:20 |
| XTL | and then ssh-add and the agent will do the auth for that shell's children | 16:21 |
| crashanddie | bleh | 16:21 |
| jott | crashanddie: man ssh-config /ControlMaster :) | 16:21 |
| crashanddie | that's an ugly hack | 16:21 |
| XTL | You can see if ssh-agent is working by running ssh-add, I think. | 16:21 |
| crashanddie | yeah, ssh-add -l | 16:21 |
| XTL | crashanddie: And that works? | 16:22 |
| XTL | I mean no "can't connect to agent" | 16:22 |
| Veggen | Modern Linux-distributions will almost always have it running per default. | 16:22 |
| crashanddie | it works when I run ssh-agent bash, and run it from there | 16:22 |
| crashanddie | doesn't work from the plain scratchbox | 16:22 |
| lbt | jott: I can - but I wanted to make life easier - adding the etch deb-src to the scratchbox makes porting easy | 16:23 |
| XTL | How about if you run those export SSH_AUTH_SOCK etc lines in the scratchbox shell | 16:23 |
| XTL | (See that the /tmp/ socket is reachable etc) | 16:23 |
| Veggen | oh, scratchbox is different. but it's likely that you can try using the one from the mother-session, if you take care of getting some environment-values with you. | 16:23 |
| lbt | and allows dependency following that (proabably) won't break things | 16:23 |
| jott | lbt: yes, i have a sid deb-src :) | 16:23 |
| XTL | Like Veggen said, get the right env vars into the scratchbox shell | 16:23 |
| crashanddie | XTL, you're a genius :) | 16:23 |
| crashanddie | XTL, I just had to copy/paste the output | 16:24 |
| XTL | Close. I'm an ex sysadmin. | 16:24 |
| XTL | :) | 16:24 |
| lbt | any idea why mine won't apt-get update then? | 16:24 |
| Veggen | I am a current sysadmin. | 16:24 |
| crashanddie | such problem should be taken care of by scratchbox right from the start | 16:24 |
| Veggen | I use ssh-keys and ssh-agent *a lot* | 16:24 |
| Veggen | :) | 16:25 |
| lbt | FWIW : deb-src http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.debian.org/debian/ etch main contrib | 16:25 |
| XTL | It's kind of "set up and forget", though. | 16:25 |
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| Veggen | XTL: well. having a couple of hundred Unix-boxes, and not same home-dir, my routine on sshing into a box the first time is, "oh? password? can't have that. *copy* relevant files into .ssh* | 16:26 |
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| yacoob | Veggen, don't tell me that you do it by hand with >100 boxes... | 16:27 |
| crashanddie | well, if he got 1 box per week | 16:29 |
| crashanddie | I don't see the problem | 16:29 |
| crashanddie | gotta be buggered though if you notice your SSH key is a debian-pooped key | 16:29 |
| yacoob | crashanddie, key gets compromised, do the key dance again... :) | 16:29 |
| jott | well you could easily do something like cat .ssh/id_dsa.pub | ssh foo tee -a .ssh/authorized_keys2 | 16:29 |
| jott | := | 16:29 |
| lbt | or scp (!) | 16:30 |
| crashanddie | jott, or maybe easier: scp ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub user@box:/.ssh/authorized_keys | 16:30 |
| jott | scp can append? :) | 16:30 |
| crashanddie | I thought it could | 16:31 |
| lbt | don't need to - you *want* to replace | 16:31 |
| jott | if you *want* that's a different story. | 16:31 |
| lbt | you just don't want to get it wrong :) | 16:31 |
| lbt | anyhow fix my apt problem | 16:31 |
| lbt | grrr | 16:31 |
| crashanddie | we're talking about SSH now | 16:32 |
| jott | but i have different private keys :) | 16:32 |
| yacoob | that's why you should just use cfengine or puppet... :) | 16:32 |
| crashanddie | apt discussion is planned around 4PM | 16:32 |
| lbt | Ok, for the backlog then.... | 16:32 |
| lbt | :) | 16:32 |
| yacoob | crashanddie, when is punch and pie? | 16:32 |
| lbt | I tried a sid deb-src and got the same problem (in case I had cache corruption or summit) | 16:33 |
| lbt | 4:15 if you fix my apt | 16:33 |
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| jott | lbt: why not just install the keyring? ;) | 16:34 |
| lbt | I don't have gpg | 16:34 |
| lbt | I'd like to minimise the impact on the scratchbox | 16:35 |
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| lbt | I suppose I could add etch 'deb' and dl the keyring to sb and then remove the deb line | 16:35 |
| crashanddie | I some cancer, be back in a bit | 16:36 |
| lbt | but then I'd have to dl their gpg too | 16:36 |
| lbt | so I've got a really mixed up sb environment at that point | 16:36 |
| lbt | ugh | 16:36 |
| lbt | this was supposed to be "how do I setup a clean porting ability on sb" | 16:37 |
| jott | just add the deb-src and there you go :P | 16:37 |
| lbt | A: add this file to the sources.list.d and tell it to ignore gpg sigs | 16:37 |
| jott | deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free | 16:37 |
| lbt | I *did* add the line | 16:37 |
| jott | works fine here | 16:37 |
| jott | no problems | 16:37 |
| lbt | and I get | 16:37 |
| lbt | W: GPG error: http://www.mirrorservice.org sid Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' | 16:37 |
| lbt | W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems | 16:37 |
| jott | lbt: so? | 16:38 |
| jott | lbt: you can't verify the packages. but it's not *that* important. | 16:38 |
| lbt | it didn't appear to properly update the local db | 16:39 |
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| lbt | goddam it I'm an idiot - *NOW* it's working | 16:39 |
| lbt | sorry | 16:39 |
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| rmrfchik | in what package I can find cfdisk or fdisk? | 16:50 |
| rmrfchik | ...or other program for partition management | 16:50 |
| trenka | rmrfchik: sfdisk in busybox | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: i have a cfdisk.deb that's kinda hacked together as well | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/dependancies/maemo/cfdisk.deb | 16:53 |
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| arachnist | Qermit tez jesteś fajny *_* | 16:54 |
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| rmrfchik | thanks | 16:56 |
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| RST38h | BOO, all | 17:28 |
| Khertan | brontide > no doc yet, a command line tool ... but there will be a doc in a near future ... at least for the summit :) | 17:30 |
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| kaie | hi. i think some of the people here are working on the qt port of ff. i tried the binary, won't start up to me, symbol lookup error | 17:47 |
| kaie | let me know if you want the full error message | 17:47 |
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| lbt | RST38h: <eek> | 18:05 |
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| andrewfblack | Hello | 18:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Howdy | 18:39 |
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| MakeGho | I can only find source distribution for maemo-latex :/ is there no binary one for n810? | 18:57 |
| krutt | MakeGho: how much did you pay for your 810? | 18:58 |
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| MakeGho | around 380 €, how so? | 18:59 |
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| Mek | anybody know of any packages of (parts of) boost for maemo? | 19:15 |
| jott | Mek: i think i have them floating around somewhere | 19:16 |
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| Mek | jott: ah, that would be nice... I can't get boost to install... | 19:18 |
| jott | Mek: what's the problem? | 19:18 |
| Mek | jott: 'bjam install' crashes (or causes qemu to crash) | 19:19 |
| jott | qemu is very fragile... | 19:20 |
| jott | try to use the cvs-m version. | 19:20 |
| jott | btw. qemu was the reason why cmake crashed. | 19:20 |
| Mek | ah, okay :) | 19:21 |
| jott | but in this case the other way around (0.8.2-sb2 seems to work but not cvs-m) | 19:21 |
| jott | it really stinks :/ | 19:21 |
| Mek | how do I install a different qemu/tell scratchbox to use that one? :) | 19:21 |
| jott | look at /scratchbox/user/$USER/targets | 19:22 |
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| jott | and /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin | 19:22 |
| jott | cvs-m should come with the default installation. | 19:22 |
| Mek | ah, yes; so just changing the .config to refer to that one should make it use that? (after restarting scratchbox)? | 19:23 |
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| jott | you don't need to restart, it's parsed on each prompt :) | 19:23 |
| jott | or rather after it. | 19:24 |
| jott | before executing something | 19:24 |
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| jott | Mek: other than that http://outpo.st/boost/ | 19:25 |
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| Mek | ah, that is a lot easier than building them myself :) | 19:27 |
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| jott | yeah in the end it should be build by the builder anyway :) | 19:27 |
| jott | but that's another adventure :) | 19:28 |
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| Khertan_n810 | hi ... again ... | 19:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | someone know where i can get the defoma lib for abiword \ | 19:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | ? | 19:31 |
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| andrewfblack | Hey Khertan | 19:33 |
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| andrewfblack | umm looks like apple is getting sued because the IPhone 3G is twice as fast as the Regular IPone like they prommised it would be lol | 19:40 |
| Khertan_n810 | twice as fast too lost network too | 19:40 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 19:40 |
| jott | i wonder if they get/got sued for "Half the price." too, as it's pure BS :) | 19:41 |
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| mutu_rock | oe sergio | 19:41 |
| andrewfblack | lol I'm sure that is next jott | 19:42 |
| sergio | eo | 19:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | can t code app in python | 19:42 |
| mutu_rock | como te va | 19:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | no interpreted language is accepted by apple on iphone | 19:42 |
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| Khertan_n810 | no possibility to code onboard | 19:43 |
| Khertan_n810 | so really not interesting | 19:43 |
| jott | but it has working 3d drivers :P | 19:43 |
| mutu_rock | sergio donde estas | 19:44 |
| andrewfblack | yeah I had a friend who got a free itouch from going on work trip he came home same week I got my N810 and he was so excited until he saw my Nokia lol | 19:44 |
| Khertan_n810 | useless if we can t use it | 19:44 |
| Khertan_n810 | haha | 19:45 |
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| andrewfblack | hey Khertan did you get that email sent back out | 19:46 |
| sergio | mutu_rock trabajando | 19:48 |
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| kaie | would you mind if I do some brainstorming? mobile phones still don't have nice cameras, they are still toys (no real flash, no nice optical zoom) | 19:51 |
| kaie | let's say I'm travelling with a digital camera, that doesn't use SD cards, and the n810, only | 19:52 |
| kaie | is there any way to transfer files from the camera (in my case XD) to the n810? | 19:52 |
| Veggen | yes. | 19:52 |
| andrewfblack | card read? | 19:52 |
| andrewfblack | I havn't tried my USB card reader on my tablet but I would think it would work | 19:52 |
| Veggen | The n810 can do USB host mode. You might need to provide power, but a powered hub can do that. | 19:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | andrewfblack: yep you should have already get it | 19:53 |
| Khertan_n810 | as i send it a 13pm | 19:53 |
| andrewfblack | ok its ok my personal email at home I'll check it when I get home. | 19:53 |
| kaie | oh really. I didn't know that. hmm. so I should go and hunt for a matching cable and it might immediately work? | 19:54 |
| Veggen | kaie: yes, it might. | 19:54 |
| andrewfblack | I havn't found a way to check gmail at work yet | 19:54 |
| Veggen | kaie: you need a small app to change to USB host mode on the n810 too. | 19:54 |
| andrewfblack | kaie : worse case you might need a powered USB hub I would think but card reader shouldn't pull anymore power then a USB Stick | 19:55 |
| Veggen | The n810 provides *some* power, but not too much. It *might* be enough for your camera. | 19:55 |
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| Khertan_n810 | andrefblack: just in case i m uploding it in experiment downloads of my website | 19:56 |
| Khertan_n810 | s/uplodind/uploading | 19:57 |
| kaie | ok thanks. I'll go and see if I can find an usb-male to usb-male adapter | 19:57 |
| andrewfblack | khertan_n810 cool | 19:58 |
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| Khertan_n810 | mcontacts.tar.gz | 19:58 |
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| andrewfblack | cool, btw I noticed my custom theme doesn't look that good on mcalendars I guess its becuase i use 20 for my large font and I guess thats what the buttons use in mcalendar | 20:00 |
| lbt | so I need getopt to run ucf to install autofs.... that comes from util-linux -- so how does that interact with busybox? | 20:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | 20px for text button ? | 20:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | i think many other gtk gui may be broken | 20:02 |
| andrewfblack | well on theme maker only choose two font sizes Small font and Large font | 20:02 |
| andrewfblack | I guess buttons use the large font one | 20:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | arf ... edit the gtkrc manually | 20:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | it ll be better | 20:03 |
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| andrewfblack | yeah I am going to do that because I want to add custom icons and I think I have to do it by editing gtkrc someone said | 20:03 |
| crashanddie | \o/ | 20:04 |
| crashanddie | CloudReader is finished :D | 20:04 |
| qwerty12 | Cloudreader... Hmm, can I smoke that? | 20:04 |
| crashanddie | you're too young to smoke | 20:04 |
| lbt | so I need getopt to run ucf to install autofs.... that comes from util-linux -- so how does that interact with busybox? | 20:04 |
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| Khertan_n810 | 'ALARM_EVENT_CONNECTED | 20:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | sorry wrong window | 20:05 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, so you have been a busy geezer, what does it do | 20:05 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: Hey, you gave me GPS coordinates for France :P | 20:05 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12, so ? | 20:05 |
| qwerty12 | lbt: util-linux conflicts with busybox. Or rather the other way around | 20:05 |
| lcuk | hang on a minute, hes too young to take part in an illegal activity? | 20:06 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: sudden change of mind? ;) | 20:06 |
| lcuk | what age do you have to be to do something illegal? | 20:06 |
| lbt | is it safe to remove bb and install util-linux? | 20:06 |
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| crashanddie | qwerty12, I gave you GPS coordinates, does that mean I condone your acts ? | 20:06 |
| lcuk | hell yeah | 20:06 |
| qwerty12 | lbt: sure. just install corelinux, bash2 etc | 20:06 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: just helping me with them right? | 20:07 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, only what it's supposed to, get the feed for the cloud, display the cloud, wait for user input to select the tag, retrieve the feed for a given tag, wait for user input to select a story, open browser to story, sit in the background until the browser is closed | 20:07 |
| * qwerty12 is just taking the piss anyway, jam :) | 20:07 | |
| lcuk | nice :) | 20:07 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk, I optimised the kinetic scrolling, and I have dynamic memory allocation | 20:08 |
| lcuk | even nicer :) | 20:08 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I just need to add one last "loading" screen when the browser is loading, and then find out how to get the screen resolution | 20:08 |
| crashanddie | and the app will work in landscape/portrait mode | 20:08 |
| lcuk | i gave you the sdl_ function call you need to do that | 20:08 |
| crashanddie | yeah, only for SDL 1.2.10 | 20:08 |
| crashanddie | and we have 1.2.8 | 20:08 |
| lcuk | hmm ok then | 20:09 |
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| lcuk | you can talk to x | 20:09 |
| crashanddie | Yeah, I probably will | 20:09 |
| lbt | qwerty12: removing busybox and getting the wrong apps to replace it sounds like a great way to prepare for a re-flash... I can't see 'corelinux' although I have installed bash2 | 20:12 |
| lbt | apt-cache showpkg busybox shows a lot of interdependencies | 20:13 |
| qwerty12 | lbt: oops, I meant coreutils. There is probably more you need to get like procps etc. It's in the SDK repo | 20:13 |
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| Khertan_n810 | back again | 20:16 |
| Khertan_n810 | is there someone that understand how alarmd work ? | 20:16 |
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| lbt | hmm - so I see conflicing info on this... some suggests that I can install coreutils and it'll replace any busybox links | 20:17 |
| lbt | but I get "Note, selecting busybox for regex âcoreutilsâ" | 20:17 |
| lbt | sigh - I just want "getopt" | 20:17 |
| Khertan_n810 | if i set flag CONNECTED does it wake up device only when connected or also when there is a new connection after the time up ? | 20:17 |
| lbt | I hate having to dick around for hours to run a shell script | 20:18 |
| Khertan_n810 | parse args manually | 20:18 |
| Anunakin | lbt, rebuild coreutil package for not remove busybox | 20:18 |
| Khertan_n810 | or do script with python :) | 20:19 |
| lbt | Anunakin: there was chat on -dev about just getting rid of bb | 20:19 |
| lbt | if someone is doing that then I'll pass | 20:19 |
| Anunakin | I made some .debs... for bash, grep, ... | 20:19 |
| Khertan_n810 | no alarmd expert here ? | 20:19 |
| Anunakin | lbt: but it -dev can break you maemo | 20:20 |
| lbt | yes - I wanted to avoid that... | 20:20 |
| lbt | (I meant the -dev mail list BTW...) | 20:20 |
| lbt | Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen@nokia.com> writes: Let's get rid of busybox already. | 20:21 |
| lbt | good man :) | 20:21 |
| gregorovius_ | is the maemo-announce mailing list worth subscribing? it seems to be completely dead | 20:21 |
| yacoob | speaking of which. | 20:21 |
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| yacoob | question to those of you that have some developer connections: how would you rate Nokia's attitude to the community? And their plans, responsivness, ideas...? | 20:22 |
| lbt | ah, too hard to publish - I'll just hack it for me | 20:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | yacoob: i will say nokia has a great attitude | 20:23 |
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| Khertan_n810 | as they sell me an n810 for 99Euros | 20:23 |
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| zuh | Khertan_n810: That's bribing, not great attitude ;) | 20:24 |
| lcuk | yacoob, nokia is a community grandparent, they are getting us together for a party next month :D | 20:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | and extras repository maintainer really help me to dev a tool to upload package from a nit | 20:24 |
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| gregorovius_ | well... if they do that, they're expecting you to pay the difference in development time | 20:24 |
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| Mek | they gave me one for free :P | 20:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep an paid travel and accomodation for the summit | 20:24 |
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| lcuk | gregorovius_, which you would do anyway | 20:25 |
| lcuk | mek, yer we've been waiting for you freeloaders to arrive :P | 20:25 |
| yacoob | on site, you'll be fed nokia-love-inducing drugs... | 20:25 |
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| Khertan_n810 | they sold me it without condition | 20:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | palm as never listen to third party developper | 20:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | and never answer to my help request with the api | 20:27 |
| RST38h | lcukkk | 20:27 |
| lcuk | thats cos palm world was $$$ | 20:27 |
| lcuk | rst387.9999999h | 20:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | and the worst thing is that their api sucks | 20:27 |
| * lcuk cant type ever when he needs to | 20:27 | |
| Khertan_n810 | as change isn t documented | 20:27 |
| andrewfblack | Ehy qwerty12 this weekend I need to get with you on how to do those changes to my theme deb | 20:28 |
| lcuk | Khertan, it is if you are in the club | 20:28 |
| RST38h | Programming for PalmOS is like ass-fucking a pidgeon | 20:28 |
| andrewfblack | opps he gone lol | 20:28 |
| ariya | anyone here knows someone who does something with the qt hildon IM ? | 20:28 |
| RST38h | [and I mean it literally] | 20:28 |
| gregorovius | RST38h: disgusting! | 20:28 |
| RST38h | Disgusting does not even begin to describe it | 20:28 |
| lcuk | ariya, yes, GNUton and jott are doing qt type stuff | 20:28 |
| lcuk | and others as well | 20:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: which one my software kmeteo hit the top 20 used softwares for palm os | 20:28 |
| lcuk | and they never let you in the club? shameful | 20:29 |
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| Khertan_n810 | example of a bad things : setting the prefs 'HomeButton' on tx set it really to the home button, on treo650 it set the phone button, and on a Treo680 the other phone button to end call | 20:30 |
| * yacoob just wonder where does RST gathered the experience to compare it to... :D | 20:30 | |
| gregorovius | any recommendations for a personal wiki sorta thing? | 20:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | tx is identified as lifedrive ... | 20:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | lifedrive as a e2 | 20:30 |
| yacoob | but yah, I've read briefly PalmOS programming guide, looked like ressurected c64 manual in few places | 20:31 |
| lbt | gregorovius: Zim is excellent | 20:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | and treo650 itg s depends on rom version | 20:31 |
| yacoob | gregorovius, tiddlywiki! | 20:31 |
| lbt | not a web wiki -desktop wiki | 20:31 |
| yacoob | it does... everything! | 20:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | yacoob: worse than a c64 manual | 20:31 |
| gregorovius | is zim ported to NITs? | 20:31 |
| yacoob | zim seems to be dead. | 20:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | other example ... there is a lib to know if a lib exist ... | 20:32 |
| yacoob | ah, no, that's just me looking for wrong thing. | 20:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | but on some models it answer true instead of false | 20:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | so you need to make many switch case in your code to test model, and rom revision | 20:33 |
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| gregorovius | yacoob: does tiddlywiki work ok on the tablets? | 20:33 |
| Khertan_n810 | other thing ... you can t do more than 4 socket or u will break socket stack | 20:33 |
| Khertan_n810 | and there is many things like that | 20:34 |
| yacoob | gregorovius, don't know, tbh. It's all html+js, so I don't think microb will have any problems with that... | 20:34 |
| gregorovius | i was thinking maybe it'll be too much of a strain, but i'll try it out | 20:35 |
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| ariya | GNUton: ping | 20:38 |
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| Khertan_n810 | raaaaahhhh ! alarmd will make me crazy | 20:48 |
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| Edulix | hi | 20:49 |
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| Mek | Edulix: hi | 20:50 |
| Edulix | is there any easy way to transform an ilbc sound file to wav or mp3? | 20:50 |
| Edulix | using command line in linux if possible =) | 20:50 |
| Edulix | I recorded the ilbc file with maemo recorder | 20:50 |
| Edulix | *files | 20:50 |
| brontide | Khertan: I'll give py2deb a whirl and see if I can get Dialcentral ( Grandcentral Dialer ) into extras already | 20:51 |
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| Khertan_n810 | brontide: is it in python ? | 20:52 |
| brontide | Yep | 20:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | oh | 20:53 |
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| Khertan_n810 | oh do u cancel an alarm when u don t have his id ? | 20:54 |
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| brontide | Hmmm... I've tackled a lot of python/gtk/maemo quirks, but alarmd is not something I've tackled. I'll be working on alarmd next when I finish up the google docs sync | 20:55 |
| Khertan_n810 | ... | 20:56 |
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| Khertan_n810 | i have created an alarm for a test that launch mcalendar each minute | 20:56 |
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| Khertan_n810 | can t cancel it as i vn t his id | 20:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | don t found anything in the python binding to list alarm | 20:57 |
| brontide | Hmm... that's stupid | 20:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep | 20:57 |
| brontide | there needs to be a way to enumerate alarms | 20:57 |
| brontide | can you get it from the xml file that alarmd uses? | 20:58 |
| brontide | here /var/lib/alarmd/alarm_queue.xml | 20:59 |
| lcuk | which distro is prefered for scratchbox? | 21:01 |
| XTL | Debian might be the most natural one | 21:02 |
| XTL | I think the instructions for installing devkits are for D | 21:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum passing the right say me False | 21:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | pfff | 21:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: ubuntu | 21:04 |
| RST38h | lcuk: you may have problems with others | 21:04 |
| lcuk | ubuntu is debian based isnt it | 21:04 |
| brontide | So no luck with the cookie from the xml file? | 21:04 |
| lcuk | thanks xtl/ RST38h | 21:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | no ... i ve edited file | 21:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | work better | 21:05 |
| lcuk | RST38h, is it straight forward to install if im careful | 21:06 |
| RST38h | it is safe as long as you follow the instructions exactly | 21:06 |
| * lcuk needs a machine once again for the summit and it might as well have proper features | 21:06 | |
| brontide | getting threads/gobject.idle_add was my big advance today, dialcentral is now lots more responsive | 21:07 |
| ariya | Icuk: scratchbox on OpenSUSE is also dead easy | 21:07 |
| RST38h | I do suggest installing sb2 instead though | 21:07 |
| lcuk | simpler? or just another thing to learn | 21:07 |
| RST38h | gentler | 21:07 |
| lcuk | i was tempted the other day to dd the vmware image directly onto my laptop | 21:08 |
| RST38h | you will not have completely insulated environment | 21:08 |
| RST38h | In sb1, you log into the "system" and use it this way. To get to your own file system you have to configure networking and use nfs locally | 21:08 |
| RST38h | In sb2, you do not log in | 21:08 |
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| RST38h | Just use "sb2 gcc" instead of "gcc" and you are all set | 21:08 |
| lcuk | i dont ever think bout logging in with vmware - its just a console box like i have now | 21:08 |
| lcuk | but i run make - do the makefiles need altering to do similar? | 21:09 |
| RST38h | yes, but you will have to log in from that console box into sb1 | 21:09 |
| RST38h | In sb1, you will run make inside the scratchbox | 21:09 |
| lcuk | yes - the desktop icon does all that for me - once ive clicked it im ready to go with no logins | 21:09 |
| RST38h | In sb2, you can use whatever make you have in your Linux, just change CC setting | 21:09 |
| Mek | in sb1 you can just mount --bind to get your local file system inside scratchbox.. | 21:09 |
| * lcuk would prefer to compile and build on a native arm system | 21:10 | |
| lcuk | would a beagleboard allow this incidentally? | 21:10 |
| lcuk | use it as a desktop and build maemo apps? | 21:10 |
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| lcuk | ill get ubuntu on the machine first anyway and see which sb fits | 21:11 |
| brontide | lcuk: I'm kinda hoping that the maemo firmware under qemu thing pans out | 21:11 |
| RST38h | http://exiledonline.com/dolan-who-wants-ice-man/ | 21:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Speaking of that, where'd hrw disappear to? | 21:11 |
| lcuk | brontide, i would hope to never have to use an emulator | 21:12 |
| RST38h | check his blog? | 21:12 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, probably very busy | 21:12 |
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| RST38h | http://blog.haerwu.biz/ | 21:12 |
| crashanddie | isn't hrw on holiday ? | 21:13 |
| lcuk | good job i didnt get his blog mixed up with "human rights watch" links :D | 21:13 |
| RST38h | He is working at OpenedHand | 21:13 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, like i said, very busy | 21:13 |
| crashanddie | so ? | 21:13 |
| RST38h | Which means he should be VERY busy right around now ;) | 21:13 |
| lcuk | holiday is the most important time of the year (assuming he is having one) | 21:14 |
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| Khertan_n810 | grr... | 21:14 |
| Khertan_n810 | this is stupid to not have iterator to get alarm ... how cancel it if the databased is scratched by user ? | 21:15 |
| brontide | I'm on the deck looking out over the water enjoying candy and hard cider..... after spending all morning at the beach... list is hard | 21:15 |
| crashanddie | nha | 21:15 |
| RST38h | lcuk: afai, no | 21:15 |
| crashanddie | at OpenedHand, they just spend time moving desktops around at this time | 21:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | kaie, with the right software (gphoto2) you can hook your camera in directly | 21:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | and OTG has plenty of power for that (which it wont have for a card reader). | 21:17 |
| crashanddie | QWERTY !!! | 21:18 |
| crashanddie | No one would know how I can find out if the tablet is running in landscape or portrait mode ? | 21:19 |
| lcuk | yes, see xomap or whatever it is | 21:19 |
| lcuk | xrandr maybe | 21:19 |
| lcuk | i cant remember which but theres a library for it | 21:19 |
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| crashanddie | yeah, but that means they need to have xrandr installed :) | 21:19 |
| lcuk | and if its not installed then you know its not rotated :) | 21:20 |
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| lcuk | for now just check for 800*480 or 480*800? | 21:20 |
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| RST38h | check root window dimensions | 21:21 |
| RST38h | in fact, I would expect *any* pair of numbers, not just these two | 21:21 |
| RST38h | this is the right thing to do, in case you run app on a different device | 21:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, xrandr is bundled. | 21:25 |
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| crashanddie | nha, I managed without it | 21:25 |
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| a-l-e | hello. i'd like to install php on the n810 and i see 3 packages... which is the difference? is php5-fastcgi-pear a metapackage with all i need? | 21:34 |
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| TrueJournals | Hello! | 21:42 |
| TrueJournals | ... or not :-P | 21:43 |
| TrueJournals | I'm trying to modify rdesktop to get it to work on my n800... but I'm having trouble with power button presses | 21:43 |
| TrueJournals | I can't figure out a reliable way to detect if the power button is pressed... any ideas? | 21:44 |
| crashanddie | done | 21:44 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk, want to see the latest version ? | 21:44 |
| lcuk | gfi | 21:45 |
| crashanddie | hang on, I'll just tar the needed things so that everyone can try it | 21:45 |
| crashanddie | works in both landscape and portrait mode :) | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | crash, with randr, or you rotating your assets? | 21:46 |
| crashanddie | with xrandr | 21:47 |
| * lcuk crosses legs at that thought actually | 21:47 | |
| crashanddie | I don't change a thing | 21:47 |
| lcuk | yer, we should push for native support in default nokia kernel - jott has proven its stable and lots of things benefit | 21:47 |
| crashanddie | http://undercity.doesntexist.com/~crashanddie/cloudreader.tar | 21:48 |
| crashanddie | anyway, time for star trek voyager, ttyl | 21:49 |
| penguinbait | Window Maker anyone? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=216174#post216174 | 21:50 |
| lcuk | penguinbait, great stuff, give a gallery as well: http://www.windowmaker.info/gallery.php | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, there's already a bug | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | For kernel and xserver | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | xrandr is already shipped | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | So get Nokia to ship the kernel and xserver patched then "rotation support" is just "install Advanced Backlight" | 21:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo, Voyager. | 21:53 |
| lcuk | penguinbait, how much modding did you need to slot this into maemo? | 21:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | There a throwback to my youth. | 21:53 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, it needs a new kernel though | 21:53 |
| penguinbait | none, it just runs nicely | 21:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, erm, "ne" | 21:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/ne/new/ | 21:54 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: lcuk, erm, "new" | 21:54 |
| lcuk | its a "simple" window manager isnt it | 21:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | [2:53pm] <GeneralAntilles> So get Nokia to ship the __kernel__ and xserver patched then "rotation support" is just "install Advanced Backlight" | 21:54 |
| penguinbait | 25MB and fits right in flash | 21:55 |
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| penguinbait | its really only about 6-8mb but I added lots of other stuff | 21:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't understand the "let's use a desktop WM on a 4.1" screen with a stylus" thought process. | 21:55 |
| lcuk | penguinbait, ive just grabbed the base source, im looking for something to sit ontop of liqbase to use the speed boost.. | 21:55 |
| penguinbait | well #1 WM was designed when 800x600 was the majority :) | 21:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, well, that's 800x600 at ~72dpi | 21:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not 225dpi | 21:56 |
| penguinbait | It works real nice, but not for old people who can't see small fonts :) | 21:56 |
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| MangoFusion | GeneralAntilles: what's hard to understand? it's a desktop... in your pocket. OMFG!! | 21:57 |
| penguinbait | hell its almost worth 25MB just to have real fdisk :) | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | cfdisk isn't bad either | 21:58 |
| penguinbait | its got pico too | 21:58 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 21:58 |
| penguinbait | rcp/rsh/telnet/ftp | 21:59 |
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| penguinbait | lest also not forget how usefull xeyes is :) | 21:59 |
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| RST38h | does pico still crash on search? | 22:00 |
| penguinbait | not sure, I will test | 22:00 |
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| Stskeeps | penguinbait: have you looked at my bootmenu.d stuff btw? (since you do clone to sd stuff and other stuff) | 22:01 |
| penguinbait | nope search works fine | 22:01 |
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| remex_ | >/w 8 | 22:01 |
| penguinbait | Stskeeps, I really only remove Fanoush's checks and balances and place in a deb | 22:02 |
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| Stskeeps | ah | 22:02 |
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| Stskeeps | my idea was mostly the part about adding bootmenu items through a /etc/bootmenu.d system, so its easy to install new items | 22:03 |
| penguinbait | I made a bootmenu installer deb, it just installs bootmenu. It will scan all partitions and write out new bootmenu, ext2 and 3 are supported | 22:04 |
| penguinbait | It might only scan two per SD card, I dont recall at this point in time | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | MangoFusion, I almost exclusively use my thumbs. | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hitting those tiny little widgets is not possible. | 22:04 |
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| MangoFusion | not my problem. get smaller thumbs ;) | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | penguinbait: yeah, - my goal was more to have the systems tell how they want to be booted and how to represent in boot menu | 22:05 |
| MangoFusion | though seriously | 22:05 |
| MangoFusion | i don't get it either | 22:05 |
| RST38h | GAN: Use nails | 22:05 |
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| MangoFusion | thumbs on an n800 or n810? | 22:06 |
| RST38h | penguinbait: cool! Now, if you just pack pico... =) | 22:06 |
| penguinbait | use vi, or its 25MB :) | 22:07 |
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| * GeneralAntilles scratches up RST38h's N810 with two rusty nails. | 22:08 | |
| penguinbait | ouch! | 22:08 |
| * penguinbait slaps GeneralAntilles around a bit with a large trout | 22:09 | |
| RST38h | urgh | 22:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, save the trouts for slapping around the Nokians! | 22:09 |
| RST38h | penguin: not fair! =) | 22:09 |
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| penguinbait | RST it might work by itself | 22:12 |
| penguinbait | try penguinbait.com/pico.gz | 22:12 |
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| lbt | <Stskeeps> my idea was mostly the part about adding bootmenu items through a /etc/bootmenu.d system, so its easy to install new items...... oh, that was your idea ;) | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | oh, lbt's idea | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | my bad | 22:13 |
| lbt | ;) | 22:13 |
| * lbt lurks | 22:13 | |
| * lbt reads the backlog sometimes | 22:14 | |
| RST38h | penguin: thanks! | 22:14 |
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| penguinbait | I think it will work, there are no other files that go with it | 22:14 |
| penguinbait | let me know? | 22:14 |
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| RST38h | it should work - will test a bit later | 22:20 |
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| andrewfblack | I was just thinking I have seen dozens of posts about missing stylist how come no one has ever made some I'm sure people would buy them | 22:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Made some that'd actually fit in the tablet's stylus slot? | 22:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'd have to produce at LEAST a thousand to have any sort of reasonable price. | 22:23 |
| andrewfblack | I could make them my self to fit for less then a quarter a peice | 22:24 |
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| kkrusty | lol | 22:26 |
| kkrusty | who came up with i-am-free? | 22:26 |
| kkrusty | brilliant | 22:26 |
| RST38h | Information technology workers at the US Department of Homeland Security are busy scraping egg off their collective faces after unknown hackers broke into their telephone system and wracked up $12,000 in calls to the Middle East and Asia. | 22:30 |
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| andrewfblack | just did some quick math and I can make a Stylus for 9 cents | 22:44 |
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| RST38h | in how big batch? | 22:46 |
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| andrewfblack | 100 | 22:47 |
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| andrewfblack | thats not to big of a batch I wouldn't think | 22:50 |
| andrewfblack | since if I decided to make them I would make min order like 5 | 22:50 |
| RST38h | hm | 22:50 |
| andrewfblack | well figuring in cost of material to make the molds it would cost me 39 cents for first batch and then 9 cents for each next batch since molds are reusable | 22:53 |
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| RST38h | oh you are doing it by yourself | 22:57 |
| andrewfblack | yeah | 22:57 |
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| moontiger | would they be the same as the existing stylus's (stylii?) ? | 23:13 |
| andrewfblack | about 99% I most likly will not have the Nokia imprint on them just to watch out for myself | 23:13 |
| andrewfblack | and be smooth instead of the slight texture it has now | 23:14 |
| moontiger | color? | 23:14 |
| andrewfblack | could be just about any including clear if thats what people wanted | 23:15 |
| moontiger | awesome ... put me down for some :) | 23:15 |
| andrewfblack | lol I got to order the stuff to make the molds first and I can only make 2 molds at a time since I only have 2 stylus right now I guess once I make the first 2 then I would have 4 to make molds from | 23:16 |
| kkrusty | the n810 stylus isnt as good as the one with n800 but Im sure this must be an old topic now | 23:16 |
| andrewfblack | whats not the same about them never owned a n800 | 23:17 |
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| kkrusty | well they arent the same. The n800 is thicker | 23:18 |
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| andrewfblack | well if people wanted some n800 ones I would just need someone to send me there stylus for 24 hours and I could send it back to them | 23:19 |
| moontiger | well if you get round to it and need some upfront $$ (oooooooo $10) just let me know ;) | 23:19 |
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| andrewfblack | I only need $33 to make my first 100 so money isn't the problem, I'll order the stuff next week I might have my first batch done 2 weeks from now | 23:20 |
| moontiger | you rock! :) | 23:22 |
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| andrewfblack | I'll post something on itT once I get the stuff to make the molds in | 23:22 |
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| andrewfblack | I have to finish work on my Vac Table so I can make the Nokia Tablet Custom Grip with built in Game Controls | 23:32 |
| andrewfblack | I finally decided how to hook the tablet to the Grip | 23:32 |
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| Luria | duct tape | 23:34 |
| Luria | ? | 23:34 |
| lcuk | i use highly advanced elastic bands | 23:35 |
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| Luria | duct tape - it surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together. | 23:36 |
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| Luria | except for the stuff that's soldered together. thats the dark side, which is a bit more fun. | 23:36 |
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| andrewfblack | going to use a stylus hold on the n810 to mount it actually | 23:38 |
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| Luria | evicting the stylus? | 23:39 |
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| Luria | hmmm.... cool, i have 13 weeks 6 days of audio in my collection now. need another hdd or two | 23:39 |
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| lbt | woo hoo - automount works :) | 23:41 |
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| Luria | automount on maemo | 23:42 |
| lbt | yes | 23:42 |
| lbt | autofs | 23:42 |
| lbt | with nfs | 23:42 |
| Luria | shouldnt it work anyway? | 23:42 |
| lbt | didn't appear to be in the modules | 23:42 |
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| Luria | huh, i wish eeexubuntu knew what it's doing... it always mounts sd as cdfs | 23:43 |
| lbt | this is /net/host/files_on_host | 23:43 |
| lbt | automagically via nfs/cifs | 23:43 |
| lbt | so the mount occurs on access | 23:43 |
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| lbt | not hotplug | 23:43 |
| Luria | no, i get what you are doing. mostly talking to myself, reminding me to fix my issues. good work, btw. | 23:43 |
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