IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-08-14

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johnx_build-essential is a good place to start for ideas of what you'll need00:00
Anunakinthanks00:01
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GAN800motherfucker00:03
lcuksomeone beat you to posting errors for karma?00:03
GAN800through six pages and my sister closes the rowser. . . .00:03
GAN800browser00:03
* GAN800 sighs.00:04
johnx_shift+ctrl+t00:04
AnunakinGAN800: On firefox?00:04
GAN800No, session isn't saved.00:04
Anunakintry use google sync addon00:04
Anunakinthis save any pages and sessions00:04
johnx_GAN800, definitely set firefox to save the POST data00:04
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lcukjohnx_, i dont tihnk that combination will strangle an annoying sister - he needs shift+ctrl+s00:05
johnx_I used to have the same problem00:05
GAN800I was about to copy it over to a text editor, too.00:05
johnx_(losing posts, not strangling sibblings)00:05
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johnx_GAN800, I found the setting to tweak in "tab mix plus" but I'm pretty sure it's a native firefox setting. You could probably find it in about:config (maybe on the tablet too)00:09
GAN800Don't use FF00:09
johnx_safari?00:10
johnx_or something based on gecko?00:10
GAN800OmniWeb00:10
johnx_O_o00:10
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crashanddieGAN800, indeed, the sniping scene was quite intense00:10
GAN800No kidding00:10
crashanddieGAN800, but I like the chopper sequence better00:10
GAN800johnx, I love the tabs and workspaces00:11
GAN800Hehe00:11
crashanddieliterally "chopper"00:11
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johnx_I've heard it's good, but never had a Mac where I could install anything I wanted00:11
johnx_(had one for work)00:11
GAN800The action sequences were good, too bad I didn't give two shits about the characters00:11
crashanddieI gave a shit about the girl00:12
crashanddieshe's kinda hawt00:12
GAN800lol00:13
crashanddieThough, the scenario wasn't all that complex, I mean, when the doc says to the kid "oh, one green and one brown, that's a genetic bla bla bla, who you got it from ?" "my mother", and then the mother manages to survive with the virus, I knew how it was gonna end :P00:13
GAN800I coulda cared less when the soldier died.00:13
crashanddieWell, that part of the movie is quite sketchy00:14
crashanddieI mean, I can understand the army shooting everything down when they're all running about00:14
GAN800But the sniper scene was worth everything00:14
crashanddiebut when they're trying to steal a car... i mean... Djeezus, that's not some bloodthirsty fucker, that's just a healthy bloke from eastern london00:14
* lardman is shocked00:15
lardmanabout sbc, not what you lot are talking about00:16
crashanddieoh, and btw, I thought the first one was a lot better00:16
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GAN800Most definitely00:16
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lardmanGAN800: from your comment about your sister, I take it you're back home?00:17
GAN800Yeah00:17
GAN800Going back to school on the 25th00:17
lardmanso does that mean you'll be coming to Berlin? ;)00:17
crashanddieI think quite the contrary, actually00:18
GAN800lol, no.00:18
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crashanddieI'm just happy they used the exact same theme song00:18
GAN800Especially not without sponsorship.00:18
lardmantrue, that's closed now isn't it00:19
lardmanhmm, have we had a kernel update in the past few weeks?00:19
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GAN800lardman, yesterday00:21
lardmanreally, I must have missed that00:21
lardmanmine's dated July the 16th00:21
lbtI just upgraded and now I'm fixing initfs00:21
lardmanGAN800: what date does your uname -a show?00:22
lbthas anyone tried the old evkey on the new initfs?00:22
GAN800Hrm, maybe it wasn't updatef.00:23
lardmanthat was the initfs, still looks like it's been updated at some point since I tried the dsp unhooking patch00:24
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lardmanhmm, or not, name is identical00:24
lbtmy initfs was blatted during the install00:25
GAN800kernel was flashed, though.00:25
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lardmanis that automatic when initfs is updated? Or was there some change at some point, but no name change?00:25
lbtwell, it rebooted into the flash OS - which wasn't upgrading so didn't carry on the updgrade process and probably didn't flash the kernel00:25
lardmannot yours, in general :)00:26
lbtoh - lardman, your kernel was flashed - but to the same version?00:26
lardmanyeah00:26
lbtok00:26
lardman~lart Gnome for always crashing the filemanager00:27
* infobot drops a humongous exploding nuke on Gnome for always crashing the filemanager00:27
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lardmanhow does flash-and-reboot work? Can I somehow just flash a zImage?00:29
lbtnandwrite -a -p /dev/mtd2 zImage00:29
lbtI think it's mtd200:29
lardmanlol, sounds dangerous00:30
lbt*DONT* take my word for it :)00:30
lbtIn case it isn't '''blindingly obvious''' - messing with the initfs and your tablet flash can burn you.00:30
lbt(from the wiki page I'm doing)00:30
ds3don't you usually need a flash_eraseall /dev/mtd2 first?00:30
lardmanindeed00:30
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lbtyes ds300:30
lbthttps://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Initfs_hacking00:31
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lardmannothing about flashing kernel there though is there?00:33
lardmannot to mind, I used flasher-3 in the end00:33
lbthold your horses ... :)00:33
lbtseriously - I don't know at the moment00:34
lardmanI'm done now anyway, thanks for trying00:34
lbtI think I've read some hw architecture stuff on the flash area00:34
lbtthe empeg car stereo has a /proc/zImage which has a write access hook00:35
lbtso copying a new zimage to /proc/zimage initiates a kernel driven flash00:36
lbtvia a buffer00:36
lbtnice safe feeling00:36
GeneralAntilleslardman, I already answered that question for you on itT. :P00:36
lardmanballs, still very low framerate :(00:36
lbtdamn - I should have done that for the Karma.00:36
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I know, I couldn't remember whether I had the right binary though00:36
GeneralAntillesflash-and-reboot is just a wrapper for fiasco-flasher00:36
lardmanthat sounds better, I couldn't get --help to do anything00:37
GeneralAntillesWhich grabs images from /usr/share/something, feeds them to fiasco-flasher, deletes them and reboots.00:37
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lbthttp://lessig.org/blog/2008/08/huge_and_important_news_free_l.html00:39
lbtjust saw via /.00:39
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lardmanhmm, still a distinct lack of frames being displayed while dsp-sbc is being used00:42
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lardmanany thoughts as to how to debug this?00:43
lbtdtrace00:44
lardmanhow will that help?00:45
lardmanhmm, sounds interesting though anyway00:46
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lbtseeing what's happening - possibly looking at elapsed times - kernel level dynamic profiling00:46
lbtnot sure where that's up to for 2.6.21 though00:47
lbtit's not upstream at that point but the patches may be applicable00:47
lardmansounds painful whichever way I try it00:47
lbt(it's not dtrace though, is it? That's the sun version IIRC)00:47
lbtwell, sometimes you just need printf()s00:48
lardmanI've got lots of printfs :)00:48
lbtand that's a low-level way to get them ;)00:48
lbtkprintfs00:48
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lardmanthe code runs, it just kills video output when it runs00:48
GAN800make it output 'Something's happening' to stdout with every function.00:51
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lardmanI think that may be the problem00:51
lardmanwondering whether it's slowing down the kernel too much doing data transfers, then mplayer is getting upset and dropping frames00:51
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lbtI was going to say - I was instrumenting Shopper to find out why it was slow00:51
lbtand when I removed the printfs - it was fine00:51
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lcukdepends where and how many you have - i generally remove running debugs after i confirm things have worked00:52
lbtI have *a lot*00:52
lardmanyeah, I've just converted from using bulk transfers, which the kernel does short by short (iirc), to shared memory with single shorts transferred for sync00:52
lcukif i uncomment just 1 line i can produce over 1000 lines per frame00:52
* GeneralAntilles starts over with the website bugs.00:53
lcuki need it occasionally but theres no way i could put it in production00:53
lardmanlcuk: sounds like debugging Tremor, then add on the problem that you can only capture ~100 lines ;)00:53
ds3is dsp/tremor done?00:53
lardmands3: no00:53
ds3dsp/sbc?00:53
lardmands3: yes and no00:54
lardmanit works, unless you want to watch video too00:54
lardmanwhich is what I'm trying to work out now00:54
ds3oh so it does not coexists?00:54
lardmanit coexists, just kills the video framerate if you try to use it while outputting video too00:54
ds3can I use dsp/sbc with dsp/mp3 to play to a wireless headset? (is the bluez/plugz bits there yet?)00:54
lcuklardman, just try something random, play an mp3 and start liqbase (if you have it) see if the performance is drastically lower00:54
ds3I can do without the video00:55
lardmands3: no, you can't pipe from the mp3 dsp task to the sbc task :(00:55
lardmands3: you have to do mp3 decoding on arm atm using libmad00:55
ds3lardman: Hmmm okay... what about the plugz/bluez bits to use the sbc task?00:55
lardmanlcuk: it's not a cpu problem afaict00:55
lardmands3: yeah, all works00:56
lcukim thinking memory - im blitting stuff around totally for every frame00:56
lardmands3: one day, I may port an mp3 decoder and work out how to string them together openmax stylee00:56
lardmands3: not for a while though00:56
ds3lardman: is this available as a deb to make media player output with sbc but use libmad for decoding?00:56
lcukif there is a conflict between the dsp and a cpu app wanting the memory bus what happens?00:56
ds3cpu I think has priority00:57
lardmands3: there's a bluez-utils deb on the Garage project page, but it won't tweak the built in player, I don;t know how to do that00:57
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lardmanlcuk: yeah, not sure00:57
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ds3lardman: ah.. so no easy way to use A2DP headsets yet w/o a new media player00:57
lardmannext step is dma for data transfer00:57
lardmands3: no, not until Nokia open the media player, though it must be possible to tweak the conf files to change the GStreamer pipeline, I'd have thought00:58
lardmanI leave that to someone else, I'll just fiddle with the encoder :)00:58
ds3lardman: someone had a tweaked media player that fully understands OGGs so it can't be that off00:59
lardmanno, I'm sure it's doable00:59
crashanddie500GB Blu-ray, w00t00:59
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lardmanyou could either go for the alsa sink or there's an gstreamer sbc sink in bluez iirc00:59
Raytrayboo@highlight.00:59
lardmanboth will use dsp-sbc if you use the tweaked version01:00
crashanddieRaytray, then fix it, not my fault if you've highlighted RAY :P01:00
RaytrayAt least I don't highlight for GRAY01:00
crashanddieRaytray, I used to have a highlight on "crash"01:00
crashanddieI quickly changed that when I joined #debian and ##c++01:00
Raytraylol01:01
RaytrayNot many say the word ray unless it's like blu-ray or x-ray01:01
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GeneralAntillesray01:01
ds3I just wish there was a central prefs option to say output to A2DP01:01
Raytrayso I'm pretty much fine except for the occasional ones.01:01
GeneralAntillesRay is so lame.01:01
RaytrayOh and then there's antilles. I think he hasn't forgotten the time he went to take a nap and we highlighted him out of it.01:02
GeneralAntillesHehe01:02
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crashanddieI'm going outside for a smoke, anyone care to join me ,01:03
crashanddie?01:03
crashanddiebtw, I just bought a throw-away phone01:03
crashanddiewell, "just", as in "today"01:03
crashanddiewent into the store, asked for a pay as you go phone, £30, I paid, they gave me the phone, I left01:04
crashanddieno names, no credit card01:04
RaytrayWhat for?01:04
lbtbest things since sliced bread .... for criminals.01:05
crashanddielbt, agreed, it's amazing01:05
lardmanso are payphones01:05
crashanddielardman, well no, because a payphone is a bit more traceable, right ?01:05
||cwnot really01:05
lbtyeah - 'cos you'd never look twice at someone lugging a big red box down the street01:05
||cwheh01:05
aquatixcrashanddie: like the used cell tower of your phonecall isn't logged01:06
lbtdid you spot the 'throw away' part?01:06
aquatixlbt: just paint it blue and put `Police box' on it01:06
aquatixlbt: yeah01:06
||cwif oyu use the phone once, they can triangulate you, continuously, but you gotta really piss someone off for them to go through that effort01:06
lbt'throw away'01:06
aquatixlbt: it's tracable to the throw away number :)01:06
||cwright, but then you have prints on it01:07
lbtso, you know the phone you find in the skip was used...01:07
lbtthen what?01:07
lbtnothing01:07
||cwand survalence cameras01:07
lbtuntraceable01:07
aquatixdump it into the Thames01:07
lbtbwahahahaha01:07
crashanddieI place my call, use the credit, and stick the phone in the seat in a bus, that'll keep 'em busy01:07
lbtindeed01:07
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aquatixcrashanddie: using hand gloves01:07
crashanddieand with a mask and glasses so the CCTV doesn't spot me01:08
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crashanddieaquatix, obviously, if they're tracing a phone I bought 10 minutes ago, they know who I am01:08
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crashanddieand btw, how precise is cellphone tracking anyway ?01:09
aquatixdepends01:09
crashanddieI mean, they use triangulation right ? There's always 3 towers covering my phone01:09
lbtnot as good as GPS01:09
crashanddieso that gives them an area to search, at best01:09
aquatix`within 1700m' if i have to believe google maps on my phone ;)01:10
aquatixin cities it can be quite small01:10
lbtdepends on how rural01:10
aquatixlots of towers01:10
lardmandepends if you have access to the signal strengths from the non-owning towers I suppose01:10
aquatixs/towers/cells01:10
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aquatixthat too01:10
aquatixcrashanddie: what are you planning and how can i get in? ;)01:11
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crashanddieanyway, a helluva lot of work, just to trace a phone that just has been bought, and whose owner is basically non-identified01:11
crashanddieso I can fairly confirm what I said earlier, vodaphone pay as you talk phones: awesome01:11
lbt(if you're a criminal)01:12
lbt(otherwise just convenient)01:12
crashanddieI mean, for 30 quid, I'd buy something like that just to call my mistress, or if I do industrial espionage01:12
lbtgood point01:12
aquatixlbt: or for someone who likes his privacy01:12
lbtwhere do I sign up01:12
aquatixthat's the point: no sign up ;)01:12
lbt<sigh>01:12
lbtare you american?01:13
aquatixno, but i might be stupid01:13
lbt:D01:13
crashanddieyou should apply for a green card then :D01:13
* aquatix is comfortable where he is01:13
lbthttp://www.teknikoffice.co.uk/products/Response.aspx01:13
lbt?01:13
aquatixbesides, english is a second language for me and i'm dozing off01:13
crashanddieor, if you're having problems, I now a girl who's willing to marry for just under ten grand01:13
lbtpesos?01:14
lbtlira?01:14
lardmanis that "I'm now" or "I know"? :D01:14
lbtthis is irc01:14
lbt"I'm now"01:14
crashanddies/I now/I know/01:14
infobotcrashanddie meant: or, if you're having problems, I know a girl who's willing to marry for just under ten grand01:14
crashanddieit's because of the cockney accent01:14
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lbttold you he was a criminal01:14
lardman:)01:14
crashanddiewe tend to say "know" as "now"01:14
aquatixcrashanddie: is she hot?01:15
lbtfor ten g she'd better be01:15
* aquatix has some monopoly money left01:15
* lardman imagines crashanddie in a wig, hmm01:15
aquatixeek01:15
aquatixhm01:15
lbtand you'd need at least 20 nights to get your money's worth01:15
aquatixreminds me i don't even know how to picture crashanddie without wig01:16
aquatixlbt: :D01:16
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crashanddieI'm troubled by having an IRC channel trying to picture me, with or without a wig01:16
lbti shouldn't be typing this stuff mixed in with rebuilding initfs01:16
lardmananyway, the dspmp3 task can be used to decode audio without clobbering mplayer, but I guess that's less bandwidth and larger chunks too probably01:16
crashanddielbt, where you from ?01:16
lardmancrashanddie: me too, nightmares tonight for sure!01:17
aquatixlardman: stop being so on-topic01:17
lbtReading now, Cheshire b4,01:17
aquatixlardman: heheheh01:17
lardmanaquatix: soooorrry01:17
aquatixlardman: /me runs01:17
aquatixi need sleep01:17
lardmannah, don't worry :)01:17
aquatixotherwise i'll only polute $irc more01:17
lardmanaquatix: :) night night then01:17
aquatixnn01:18
lbtyeah - I gotta go too01:18
lbt'night all01:18
lardmannight lbt01:18
crashanddielol...01:18
crashanddieI was trying to find "Cheshire b4" on google maps01:18
crashanddieuntil I asked myself the question "why is he telling me he's reading at the moment ?"01:19
GeneralAntillesDoes anybody even bother to copyedit this stuff before publishing it? :\01:19
aquatixGeneralAntilles: copyediting irc?01:19
lardmanGeneralAntilles: what's that?01:19
GeneralAntillesmaemo.org01:19
aquatixah :)01:20
GeneralAntillesGoing through the development section.01:20
timelyxGeneralAntilles: i did that for one person for the maemo4 stuff01:20
* aquatix has respect for GeneralAntilles, our quality control guy01:20
aquatixand i don't yest01:20
aquatixjest01:20
aquatixwhatever01:20
aquatixGeneralAntilles: just wanting to say you rock for putting so much effort in the sites01:21
GeneralAntillesI do what I can. ;)01:21
* aquatix falls asleep on his keyboard01:21
aquatixGeneralAntilles: yeah, but i guess it can be frustrating at times01:21
aquatixanyways, nn01:21
GeneralAntillesnight01:22
lardmannight GeneralAntilles01:22
lardmanlol01:22
GeneralAntilles@aquatix, lardman. :P01:22
lardmanwrong end of the stick01:22
aquatix:)01:22
GeneralAntillesmaemo.org is less frustrating than Maemo Software01:22
lardmannight mk2 aquatix01:22
timelyxbut no, in general almost everyone here isn't a native speaker01:22
GeneralAntillesAt least there are maemo.org people at hand to accost.01:22
aquatixlardman: thanks01:23
* aquatix finally gone01:23
GeneralAntillestimelyx, it's not even that, really, but consistency in heading levels, capitalization, punctuation, etc.01:23
timelyxthey don't spot those sorts of things either :(01:23
GeneralAntillesHrm, this corrections list is getting a little long.01:24
lardmanRight, my dsp task, while decoding stereo 16bit pcm data at 48000Hz, receives 512bytes of data 375 times per second and sends 78bytes of data 375 times per second01:24
lardmandoes anyone think that is alot?01:24
GeneralAntillesI guess I'll break the bugs down into smaller groups.01:24
lardmanGeneralAntilles: less chance of a sibling loosing the whole lot too ;)01:25
lardmans/loosing/losing01:25
GeneralAntillesDoing it in a text editor this time. :D01:25
lardmanthe worst one is bloody online application forms, I spend ages, click send and it's timed out01:25
lardmanI do every thing in a text editor now and paste it at the end01:25
crashanddie375 ?01:26
lardmanyeah, I think that works out?01:26
crashanddiesomething doesn't add up01:27
lardman48000 x 2 channels x 2 bytes/512 bytes = 375 bytes/second01:28
lardmanscratch that01:28
crashanddielol01:28
lardman375 transfers/second01:28
crashanddieyeah01:28
crashanddie192000 bytes/second01:28
lardmanyep01:28
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crashanddiethat's like what, 180kbytes/s01:29
lardmanwhat's the average byterate for mp3s?01:29
crashanddiefor PCM audio ?01:29
crashanddie192kbit/s ?01:29
crashanddieso 24kbyte/s01:29
lardmanis that the output, I'd like to know the input01:30
crashanddie???01:30
lardmanI can work it out actually, 5Mb file is ~3min for example01:30
crashanddiemp3 can be anywhere between 64kbit/s and 320kbit/s01:30
lardmanto compare with the dsp-mp3 task which doesn't seem to slow down video01:30
crashanddiebut 192 is pretty decent01:30
crashanddie192 is your average movie sound01:30
crashanddie128 or 96 is your low-quality soundtrack01:31
crashanddie192kbit/s = 24kbyte/s / 375 = 64bytes01:32
lardmanyeah, so I'm almost an order of magnitude above that01:32
crashanddielardman, so when you say you're sending out 78bytes at 375hz, you're around 234kbit/s, a bit higher and you're at 25601:33
lardmanyep01:33
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lardmanI guess this may be a fundamental limitation of trying to pass so much data back and forth01:33
crashanddieprobably01:34
lardmanwould be better to decode mp3 and then encode sbc on the dsp in one go01:34
lardmanI'm just wondering how much more time to spend fiddling with the code in the hope I can stop the video slow-down01:34
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crashanddieare you trying to do real time mp3 encoding from a PCM data source, or just playing mp3 ?01:34
lardmanah no, am doing sbc encoding from mp3 via libmad01:35
lardmanfor output to bt headphones01:35
crashanddiesbc encoding ?01:35
lardmanthe pcm data comes from libmad and crosses to the dsp01:35
lardmansbc is the codec for the BT headsets01:35
GeneralAntilles38 corrections for http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_3-x_bora/ <_<01:35
crashanddiesub band coding or smart bitrate control ?01:36
lardmansub-band01:36
crashanddiek01:36
lardmanlow complexity sub band codec to give it its full name01:36
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timelyxandre____: ping01:37
crashanddieok, so basically just removing the parts of the audio we don't need01:37
lardmanyeah01:37
andre____timelyx, pong01:37
lcuklardman, have you got a britney filter and stuff in there?01:37
crashanddielcuk, no, but we're working on a northerner filter01:38
lardmanlcuk: I steer clear of Britney, one mention and viruses are all you get01:38
lcukcrashanddie, if you watched the news yesterday you would know just how right you are01:38
crashanddielol ?01:38
crashanddieWhat you talking about ?01:39
lcukhttp://londonist.com/2008/08/northern_cities_doomed_says_unthink.php01:39
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blafaselcrashanddie: Are you french?01:40
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lardmanyeah, I heard that, raze them to the ground!01:41
lcukon the face of it its true01:41
lcukbut it will just end up like other mega cities01:41
crashanddieblafasel, i've lived in France, why ?01:42
lcukwe need our heritage towns01:42
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* lcuk puts his head back into code01:43
blafaselcrashanddie: Don't hit me. Over here it's called "plenken", i.e. it's uncommon to add spaces before question marks, etc. "Are you alright?" (no space). The french people have rules that explicitly ask for that spaces, so I was just curious ;)01:44
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GeneralAntillesthatsalottacorrections https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357001:45
crashanddieblafasel, in fact, it's curious you would say that, I've always been corrected, here in France, for spacing my question marks01:46
crashanddieblafasel, they don't like it, at all, I just do, don't know why, some genetic shit, I guess01:46
GeneralAntillesSpacing punctuation like that just pisses me off.01:46
crashanddieoh really ?01:46
* GeneralAntilles simmers.01:46
blafaselHehe. Funny.01:47
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crashanddieanyway, I've done enough harm here these days, 'night01:48
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blafaselI didn't plan to start a war on that. It's entirely uncommon (*cough*wrong*cough*) here (Germany), but it might be just the right thing to do elsewhere. So this was really just a question out of curiousity. I mean here are lots of different nationalities.01:49
blafaselHmpf.01:49
timelyxGeneralAntilles: wow01:50
blafaselFor kicks and giggles and to see what I was talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenk01:50
GeneralAntillesThe Bora page was probably hard-wrapped and got messed up when moved to midgard.01:50
GeneralAntillesSo, should I wait until I get a response on the corrections for before starting on the next section or just plug ahead?01:52
GeneralAntilless/for/form/01:52
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: So, should I wait until I get a response on the corrections form before starting on the next section or just plug ahead?01:52
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* GAN800 peruses the eligible candidate list.01:57
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lardmanbed time for me, see you chaps tomorrow01:59
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teamcobrahi all03:09
GeneralAntillesHowdy03:13
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GeneralAntillesOK, Source and Tools done, too.03:17
GeneralAntillesWill work on more tomorrow.03:17
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teamcobrahow hard would it be to get patched rtl8187 drivers compiled?03:19
teamcobraI've gotten programs to work, but haven't done any 8x0 kernel hacking03:19
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GeneralAntillestimely, "(requires a Mozilla browser like Mozilla Firefox)" that doesn't really seem correct, does it? (from bugzilla frontpage)04:18
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befr0d_Gecko browser?04:29
GeneralAntilles"Mozilla-based" is the recommended term, I believe.04:30
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GeneralAntillesThere's a fun can of worms: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357504:37
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brontideat least it's categorized as an enhancement04:44
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magicrobotmonkeywhere the crap do i download diablo?04:51
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befr0d_tablets-dev.nokia.com04:54
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GAN800brontide, I changed the severity. ;)04:56
GAN800magicrobotmonkey04:57
GAN800~flashing04:57
infoboti heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware04:57
magicrobotmonkeyty04:57
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teamcobramy buddy (n800 owner) might sell his tower and buy an extra n810 ;)04:58
GeneralAntilleslol05:02
GeneralAntillesI can see it as a laptop replacement, but not a desktop replacement.05:02
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teamcobrahe has another laptop though05:08
teamcobrafor any heavy lifting05:08
mshbrontide: sorry yeah, forgot to select enhancement05:09
teamcobraI just got him going w/ scratchbox today05:09
GeneralAntillesI couldn't imagine not having a desktop.05:09
mshthough i wonder what would count as an actual "bug" for the ui spec...05:09
GeneralAntillesLaptops are just crummy all around.05:09
GeneralAntillesIt's not a particularly useful bug anyway.05:10
GeneralAntillesMy recommendation is to move it on your own system and move on.05:10
GeneralAntillesI think most people agree that email is a form of communication.05:10
GeneralAntillesas is SIP05:10
GeneralAntillesand, clearly, on a device that doesn't have a cellular connection all communication must take place over the internet.05:11
GeneralAntillesWe could also argue that Chat doesn't belong in communication either, as it also involves the internet.05:11
mshi can change it fine yeah.05:11
brontideIf you move everything that uses TCP/IP to internet everything would be there05:11
mshjust the whole categorisation seems a bit odd.05:12
mshit's not a phone i guess05:12
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mshand then there's the contacts icon which kind of duplicates the comms category too05:13
GeneralAntillesI wish e-mail would die already.05:14
GeneralAntillesThis isn't the 30s05:14
GeneralAntillesWe don't hyphenate random words.05:14
mshyeah05:14
mshi had to go and correct all my names typing that report ;)05:14
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mshguess it makes it obvious if you're referring to the app :)05:15
GeneralAntillesThe interesting things about the mobile device context is that applications usually get generic names05:15
GeneralAntillesRather than being Firefox, Thunderbird, and Evolution05:16
GeneralAntillesIt's Browser, E-mail and Contacts05:16
brontideMan if I were to file every inconsitantcy as a bug they would probably revoke my access05:16
GeneralAntillesHehe05:16
GeneralAntillesWell, at least they seem to be moving in the right direction for Fremantle UI-wise.05:16
GeneralAntillesI'd much prefer MicroB and Modest myself.05:17
brontideI will believe it when I can buy it05:17
GeneralAntillesDevelop a little branding.05:17
GeneralAntillesbrontide, hopefully you wont have to. ;)05:17
brontidewell... ok I'll believe it when it can be bought05:17
brontide;-)05:17
GeneralAntillesI'll be interested to see how well it runs on OMAP205:18
GeneralAntillesConsidering the leaps and bounds forward OMAP3 is in comparison.05:18
GeneralAntillesand if they do keep it slim enough for OMAP2, how much the OMAP3 hardware will scream.05:18
msh1is there anything public about fremantle yet apart from "it fixes lots"?05:18
GeneralAntillesmsh, not particularly05:18
msh*nod*05:18
GeneralAntillesI'm summarized what I know on wikipedia.05:18
brontideIts got to be interesting for Nokia to balance that... there is still huge gaps in what can be done vs what is being done, but OMAP3 will wipe a lot of the problems out without sweating05:19
GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#Fremantle05:19
GeneralAntillesOMAP3 terrifies me.05:19
brontideso why invest a lot of effort in OMAP305:19
GeneralAntilles~ITOS is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS05:20
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles05:20
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brontideer OMPA205:20
* brontide needs sleep05:20
GeneralAntillesOn the subject of wikipedia, think you'll have any time to invest that direction anytime soon, brontide?05:21
GeneralAntillesThe branding situation needs to be rectified over there.05:21
brontideThat would assume I knew anything about branding at this point05:22
GeneralAntillesHehe, well05:22
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand05:22
GeneralAntillesIt's not particularly complicated05:22
GeneralAntillesIn fact, it's much, much simpler than it used to be05:22
GeneralAntillesThe biggest issue is figuring out what to rename the Internet Tablet OS article to05:23
GeneralAntillessince ITOS is deprecated in favor of "Maemo 4, Maemo 5, etc"05:23
GeneralAntillesBut, apparently, "Maemo OS" isn't valid.05:23
brontideOy05:23
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GeneralAntillesSo just calling it "Maemo" conflicts with the Maemo Software/SDK page.05:23
GeneralAntillesIt's . . . irritating.05:24
brontidewhat about Maemo (Operating System)05:24
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* GeneralAntilles facepalms.05:24
GeneralAntillesThat's perfect. . . .05:24
brontidethen we can have a disambiguation page for maemo05:24
GeneralAntillesWell, uh, problem solved I suppose.05:24
GeneralAntillesJust need to implement it05:24
GeneralAntillesand make sure all the maemo -> Maemo's are done.05:25
GeneralAntillesand maybe clarify a bit about maemo.org05:25
* GeneralAntilles may start on that tonight.05:25
brontideMaemo (Operating System)05:26
brontidemaemo.org05:26
GeneralAntillesMaemo SDK05:26
GeneralAntillesMaemo05:26
brontidemaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemomaemo05:26
brontide:-P05:27
GeneralAntillesMaemo 'R' Us05:27
brontideMaemo (Trademark)05:27
brontideMaemo the flamethrower05:27
GeneralAntillesMaemo the Poo05:27
brontideMaemo 2, the search for more developers05:28
GeneralAntillesHehe05:28
GeneralAntillesMaemo: Part Deuce05:28
GeneralAntillesMaemo 2, Electric Boogaloo05:28
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brontideMabye Nokia should share that LSD and Meth stash, we could fix all these problems in a few days05:29
GeneralAntillesI've always wondered what they're smoking.05:29
brontidehttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21516&page=605:30
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LaughingManand drinking, if the webcomics that claim there is a point where it benefits coding05:41
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brontideI though that was responsible for WinMe05:45
LaughingManhaha05:50
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Mace_hi05:52
Mace_anybody kow where i can find the deb for rdesktop for diablo05:52
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Mace_Only rep that has it is a chinook rep05:52
GeneralAntillesJust use it.05:54
GeneralAntillesChinook stuff is 99% compatible.05:54
GeneralAntillesOK, wikipedia is largely updated.05:54
GeneralAntillesI probably missed some stuff05:54
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Mace_yeah but.. i'm trying to not add the chinookreps05:55
Mace_i just want the deb ;)05:55
Mace_maybe i can just browse it05:55
Mace_and find it somewhere in there05:55
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GeneralAntillesGrab the deb then05:57
GeneralAntilleshttp://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/05:57
Mace_hm06:00
Mace_awesome... thanks06:01
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GeneralAntillesThe sad thing about Table Scene is that a lot of the inaccuracies over there will go uncorrected06:04
GeneralAntillessince very few of the active tablet people are actually participating.06:04
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m_a_r_kcan someone direct me to the os2008 repository for gpe-calendar ?06:05
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Frepository.maemo.org+gpe-calendar+diablo&btnG=Search06:06
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m_a_r_kThanks GeneralAntilles - That looks like install packages - I am looking for source code. I want to start working on making some improvements.06:08
GeneralAntillesThe sources for everything in Diablo Extras are in Diablo Extras. :\06:09
GeneralAntilleshttp://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/source/g/gpe-calendar/06:09
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desrtis there a tablet tech support channel?06:53
* desrt is crashing on bootup and wants to avoid flashing06:54
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moontigercan somebody tell me how to get sbox actually working?07:29
moontigereverytime i start the emulator i get a whole list of error messages saying that none of the home applets can be loadede07:29
moontigerand the hildon-home folder doesnt exist07:29
moontigerits reallt annoying07:29
moontigerreallt = really07:29
moontigerthnx07:30
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RST38hmoo all07:56
RST38hmoontiger: screw the sbox. Debug on real device.07:56
moontigerhow do i do that? you mean xfer it and run it on the n810?07:57
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GAN800moo, RST38h08:01
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johnx_moontiger, those error messages are normal. Nokia doesn't include a lot of the stuff that ships on the device in scratchbox08:22
moontigeroh right ... great ... thnx johnx08:27
moontiger:)08:27
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mouser-_I'm looking for the pidgin/telepathy plugin that blinks the LED on a new message.  I used to have it but I can't find it in the diablo repositories.08:30
GAN800site:http://repository.maemo.org/extras led pidgin08:31
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ezhamhi guys. I want to ask this question on #esbox but seems deserted. I install esbox using the eclipse software update, it couldn't find the scratchbox build target, both 1 & 2.08:42
ezhamplaying around with workspace & installed path and still not working08:43
ezhamusing debian 4 & diablo.08:43
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moontigerhas anyone seen khertan?08:59
GeneralAntillesYesterday08:59
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timelymoontiger: use the mozilla vmware image :)09:01
moontigertimely ... nah ... its cool thnx ... i dont like vmware stuff ... too clunky09:02
moontigercan i ask a general python gtk question?09:03
GeneralAntillestimely, you catch my question in the scrollback?09:03
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timelyGeneralAntilles: you don't like the Maemo Software product names? :(09:08
GeneralAntillesI don't like the generic ones.09:08
GeneralAntillesI _like_ MicroB, Modest, etc.09:08
timelyyeah well...09:09
timelydo you understand my reasons for picking generics?09:09
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GeneralAntillesYes09:09
timelyif the various things actually grow big enough to merit their own products, they're welcome to pick real names09:10
timelybut that of course means someone needs a decent guided page that helps people figure out app code names09:10
timelyhopefully we can upgrade to a bugzilla which supports icons for products09:10
timelywhich would let us assign a globe or a microb logo to the browser/microb product09:11
timelyetc.09:11
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timelyso are bugzilla classifications public for the world?09:12
timelyor are we waiting for andre__?09:12
GeneralAntillesNot yet.09:12
GeneralAntillesOr maybe they are09:12
GeneralAntillesI'm not really sure at the moment.09:12
GeneralAntillesI don't _think_ they are09:12
GeneralAntillesWaiting on guenther to finish up the templates. . . .09:12
timelyit's too much work for me to check09:12
GeneralAntilles"Add to Sidebar (requires a Mozilla browser like Mozilla Firefox)"09:12
GeneralAntilles^ that seems wrong.09:12
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timelywell um09:13
timelywhat;s wrong w/ it? other than the fact that it doesn't work in microb (which is arguably a bug)09:13
GeneralAntillesSeems marginally awkward and redundant.09:13
timelyi think our motto is "the web with no excuses"09:13
timelyand that's part of the web09:13
timelywell... if you can suggest something better, file a bug in bmo (the real one) :)09:15
GeneralAntilles"(requires Firefox 2 or Internet Explorer 7)"09:15
GeneralAntillesIs the Mozilla one.09:15
GeneralAntillesGNOME doesn't seem to mention it.09:16
GeneralAntillesAnyway, guess it's fine.09:17
timelyhttp://mxr.mozilla.org/bugzilla/search?string=to+sidebar09:17
GeneralAntillesmxr looks nice with the new favicon09:17
* timely nods09:17
timelymaemo.org looks ugly w/ the wrong favicon09:18
timelyis there a bug to fix it?09:18
GeneralAntillesNope, was just about to file one.09:18
timely(they should just use mine)09:18
timelynote that hires favicons do have benefits09:18
timelyctrl-tab in firefox3.1 will show you a hires icon w/ skew09:18
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GeneralAntillesAny objections to me filing a single bug for all services?09:19
timelyit's just maemo.org:website, right?09:20
timelyoh09:20
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timelyerr.. file a bug in website and then list all the things that need to be fixed09:20
GeneralAntillesWell, bugzilla, wiki, maemo.org, garage, and downloads are technically separate.09:20
timelyif someone doesn't fix them all, file bugs against the stragglers later09:20
timelynote that there is some benefit to distinct icons for various services09:21
timelymozilla.org stopped using just the dino head for *.mozilla.org recently09:21
timelyplanet seems to have standard dino, but bugzilla and mxr get big bug/big binocs w/ small dino09:22
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timely(it helps if you want to find some tab)09:23
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* timely sighs09:23
* timely hates end users09:23
timelywe say "what shows up in about:crashes"09:24
GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357809:24
timelythey instead write a long tirade saying that various things seem to cause crashes on their random computer09:24
GeneralAntillesEhehe09:24
timelyfwiw, i basically just "made" the favicon, it was listed in the brand page09:24
timelybut it wasn't actually available in a consumable form09:24
GeneralAntillesdneary may or may not have something better.09:25
GeneralAntillesI should probably cc one of the indt guys on that one.09:25
* GeneralAntilles checks if handful has an account.09:25
timelyi showed you how to do searches w/o editusers, right?09:26
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timely(of course, iirc i gave you editusers, which means you don't need to...)09:26
timelyhi _al_09:26
timelyhi _marcell_09:26
_marcell_hi timely09:27
GeneralAntillesYeah, the CC field thing, right?09:27
timelyyep09:27
timelywanna fix GeneralAntilles's pet bug? :)09:27
GeneralAntillesAnyway, he doesn't seem to have an account.09:27
GeneralAntilles_marcell_, sorry about the corrections bug spam. :)09:28
_marcell_no probelm09:28
GeneralAntillesIs it just me, or did the announcements and news on the front page suddenly get REALLY old?09:29
timelyGeneralAntilles: it'll be a great day when you actually have to worry about spamming people from bugs.maemo09:29
timelyit's from the 8th and 10th09:29
timelywe're on the 14th..09:29
GeneralAntillesWeird09:29
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_marcell_there are some issues with the site. rss feed aggregation seems to be broken, new users are not synced from garage to maemo.org... plenty of things to fill my day. :)09:29
GeneralAntillesIt was all from June there for a minute.09:30
* GeneralAntilles should pull a Cartman and freeze himself until the server upgrades are done.09:31
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moontigernow its *really* borked :|09:42
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, you want an icon for rootsh?10:00
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, That would be nice, thank you. I'd just have to see if replacing my ssh keys will work.10:01
GeneralAntilles26x26 isn't much to work with, but I was thinking a tablet showing a black screen with a big white # might work.10:02
qwerty12Yep, that sounds great, go for it please.10:02
GeneralAntillesI'll see if I feel up to it on one of my computers here, if not, 2 weeks until I get back to school and a real machine.10:03
qwerty12Ok, no problems.10:03
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* qwerty12 has 2 weeks before I'm back off to school10:03
teamcobraqwerty12, nice work on android-installer. btw :)10:04
qwerty12teamcobra, the installer is penguinbait's :)10:04
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teamcobrameh, I'm 6 sheets -> wind, it's 3am ;) I stand corrected10:04
moontigerteamcobra: 3am? where are you?10:08
teamcobraIndiana, US10:09
moontigerahhhhhhhh of course ... the other way to what i was thinking10:09
moontigerheh10:09
teamcobraheh, Canadian Club and tom collins night ;)10:11
moontigersounds good :)10:11
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moontigeri have to get some sleep ... teaching again tomorrow ... nn all :)10:12
teamcobranight moontiger :)10:13
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* rm_you is back, now Texas style.10:44
* qwerty12 says hello London style. With a gun. :P10:44
rm_youI thought everyone just used knives in the UK :P10:45
qwerty12True, it depends on my mood :D10:45
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GAN800rm_you, your package was causing some weirdness with SSU, I recommend a more unique nam10:48
GAN800e10:48
rm_yourofl?10:49
rm_yousrsly?10:49
rm_youdid they take my package name?10:49
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GAN800Some people installed it accidentally, I think10:50
GAN800But it's not clear enough that it's something else.10:51
liriis the emulator on scratchbox able to simulate icons on the system tray?10:54
RST38hwho knows? who cares?10:54
liribecause I want to put up a small program which sits there and it'd be easier to test it on scratchbox10:55
timelessscratchbox emulates everything that isn't kernel/audio10:57
timelessthe default sdk includes an icon in the tray10:57
timeless(i include flash in audio..)10:57
liriodd as I don't see it (I'm using the maemo vmware sdk)10:57
RST38hscratchbox can't even emulate the open-file dialog10:57
liriheh10:57
RST38hso I wouldn't rely on it too much10:58
liriis there a sample code (C/GTK+) for that system tray icon?10:58
RST38hliri: A moment10:58
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liriRST38h: thanks10:59
RST38hhttps://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-0-x/writing_hildon_desktop_plug-ins_for_maemo.html11:00
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rm_you|GAN800: ah yes, really what needs to happen is I need to update it with the new versions of osso-software-version-rx##-unlocked11:02
wzhouhi there, N810 on screen keyboard did not come out, when I double click the screen in Notes, what's happeN?11:02
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lcukwzhou, for the 810 you need to look UNDERNEATH the screen and you will find a little slider area - if you slide it out you will discover an off screen keyboard11:05
* terbo hugs the off screen keyboard11:05
befr0d_I believe he wants to use the screen thumb keyboard :P11:06
terbolcuk, what package do i install to get the off screen keyboard on my N800?11:06
befr0d_wzhou, check Control Panel -> Text Input settings -> On Screen tab11:06
wzhoulcuk: I just saw the 'abc' bar, no full kbd layout11:09
wzhoubefr0d_: yes, i see the tab, how to set?11:09
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befr0d_wzhou, what is your current value for 'Launch finger keyboard:' ?11:10
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befr0d_wzhou, by the way, do you want to use the 'full screen' finger keyboard, or the stylus keyboard?11:10
liriI think maemo's registration process is all weird11:11
wzhoubefr0d_: with finger11:11
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wzhoubefr0d_: what is the stylus keyboard? half size of the full screen?11:11
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befr0d_uhm like 40%11:12
befr0d_30% maybe11:12
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wzhoubefr0d_: ok, let's see the stylus first, ok?11:13
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liriRST38h: are you sure about that link? I'm unable to access it11:13
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befr0d_wzhou, enable the first check box on that tab11:15
qwerty12liri, if you have the file Maemo_Diablo_Reference_Manual_for_maemo_4.1.pdf, the same content is in that too11:16
liriuhmm, let me see11:17
wzhoubefr0d_: the same11:17
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wzhoubefr0d_: only 'abc' bar, no stulys kbd11:17
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befr0d_meh, am I the only one that believe I should not need to tap 'save' twice to receive a file through bluetooth?11:17
wzhoubefr0d_: need i reboot the tablet?11:17
befr0d_wzhou, do you have the built in keyboard open?11:18
liriwell I did find this https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/maemo_4.1/ which seems to be a handful of useful examples, I'll go through it11:18
wzhoubefr0d_: not sure, how to check it?11:18
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befr0d_wzhou, can you see the Keyboard?11:18
lirianyway I meant the icon in the system tray as in where the battery icon is, not where the contacts/applications11:18
befr0d_I mean, the Hardware keyboard11:18
wzhoubefr0d_: yes, does it affair?11:19
wzhoubefr0d_: oh, god, you save me11:19
befr0d_wzhou, yes, it needs to be closed for the onscreen keyboard to appear11:19
wzhoubefr0d_: really thanks for your kindness:)11:20
befr0d_no problem.11:20
wzhoubefr0d_: ^O^11:20
wzhoubefr0d_: another more question, i can use the full screen kbd now, how to use the stylus one?11:22
befr0d_Control Panel -> Text Input settings -> On Screen11:23
befr0d_Enable the first check box11:23
befr0d_and use the stylus to tap on the input area11:23
wzhoubefr0d_: yes!11:24
wzhoubefr0d_: I checked the 'Enabled stylus input methods', then chose the 'Launch finger keyboard' -> 'With finger', it's ok now11:25
befr0d_yea, it's supposed to detect if you tapped with a finger or the stylus, and brings the appropriate screen kbd11:26
wzhoubefr0d_: oh, i see, 'full screen kbd' is called 'finger kbd', 'stylus screen kbd' is called 'stylus screen kbd', aha11:28
befr0d_yep11:29
GAN800vkb, actually11:29
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Roman__hi11:34
Roman__everybody11:34
Roman__:)11:34
Roman__i have a question about the maemo vncviewer and if you can help me it will be great11:35
befr0d_hi11:35
Roman__i want to run vncviewer on ARM linux platform i.MX3111:36
Roman__is it possible can you tell me11:36
Roman__i have linux 2.6.2211:36
Roman__arm-linux-gcc11:36
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befr0d_have you tried to compile realvnc's source code?11:37
* GAN800 loves it wheb two short presses on esc are interpreted as a long press.11:39
RST38hRoman: It is possible.11:41
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KhertanHi !11:44
* Khertan is thinking of integrating a bug report to his mCalendar and mContacts applications11:44
Roman__RST38h, can you tell me which i the better choice, to take the maemo vncviewer or to take realvnc's ?11:45
Roman__or if someone can give me advise which is better choice11:45
aquatixgood morning all11:46
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Khertanhi aquatix11:47
befr0d_maemo's vncviewer uses hidon, which is not standard11:47
befr0d_I mean, It probably is not installed on your box..11:48
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Roman__no i have only X11 Qtopia11:48
befr0d_s/hidon/hildon/11:49
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RST38hRoman: Take RealVNC11:49
qwerty12Talking about vnc clients, fbvnc doesn't agree with the N800...11:50
Roman__hm..11:50
Roman__okey i will see RealVNC11:50
Roman__i have another question11:51
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Roman__can i run maemo browser on ARM and is it have flash support ?11:51
GAN800Not legally11:52
GAN800and probably not at all, really.11:52
befr0d_You can use gnash11:52
befr0d_:P11:52
Roman__the problem is that i need web browser+flash support. I ported arora but don't have flash support.11:53
Roman__befr0d, what is gnash11:54
befr0d_www.google.com/search?q=gnash11:54
Roman__GAN800, why not legally :)11:54
GAN800~google11:54
infobotsomebody said google was a search engine found at http://www.google.com/11:54
GAN800Because Flash is only being licensed for Nokia tablets11:54
GAN800and what you're working with is clearly not a Nokia device11:55
Roman__hm...11:59
Roman__but the problem is that i don't know can firefox run on arm12:00
GAN800Firefox can12:00
befr0d_you know, its not the browser the one that will give you automatic flash support12:01
XTLFlash is mob software. You want to use it, you pay. One way or another.12:02
Roman__is this mean that if i want to link arora with gnash i don't need to recompile arora with somespecific options12:03
befr0d_you need a browser with plugin support12:04
befr0d_according to arora home page, it does not have it http://code.google.com/p/arora/12:05
XTL"When compiled against WebKit trunk you get support for netscape plugins, including flash and youtube"12:07
XTL(screenshots page)12:07
befr0d_:)12:08
Roman__:)12:08
Roman__cery funny ;)12:08
Roman__very12:08
qwerty12I'm failing to see the joke.12:08
befr0d_lol12:09
Roman__i mean it is cool that i can link arora and gnash12:09
Roman__that's why i said "very funny"12:09
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Roman__the english is not my strong side12:09
Roman__:)12:09
XTL:)12:09
qwerty12Ah :)12:09
befr0d_although, 'youtube' its not a different plugin :P12:12
tuukkahthere was some news that devices don't need a licence for flash anymore12:14
glass_which devices and for which flash12:16
glass_theres some license involved for sure12:16
glass_but maybe not money per device sold involved12:17
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glass_flash lite used to be something like 10 bucks12:17
liriare the following libraries available for the tablet? pygame, wxpython and libsdl?12:18
XTLsdl at least12:18
befr0d_pygame too12:19
XTLyes12:19
liriso sdl and pygame are available12:19
befr0d_wxpython maybe12:19
XTLwx might be somewhere12:19
befr0d_I remember some screenshots of somebody porting it12:19
lirihere's a nice addon to the tablets: http://www.kibosh.org/pykaraoke/12:20
befr0d_http://n770.herraiz.org/archives/1812:21
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tuukkahhere's the press release: http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200804/050108AdobeOSP.html12:30
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liriugh12:36
liripygame is installed on scratchbox but still pykaraoke can't find it12:37
befr0d_try12:37
befr0d_python2.5 pykaraoke.py12:37
lirithe same12:38
liriI'm running an updatedb there to locate where it's placed, maybe it's just not in the same locations where it's looking for it12:38
befr0d_let me try it here12:40
befr0d_oh, new sf.net design12:41
befr0d_shiny12:41
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samppahey, is it somehow possible to move my whole svn server to garage svn ?12:41
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lirishiny indeed12:43
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XTLHm. I think it's the old new sf still.12:44
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atka_hi12:44
XTLOpenid logins, though12:44
atka_i'm lost a link :$12:44
atka_where can i download os2008he? :$12:45
befr0d_tablets-dev.nokia.com12:46
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lirioh leet, looks like it's working :)12:47
befr0d_liri, where did you get wxpython from?12:47
liriit does complain about the pygame but it works, although I think it's only after I installed python2.5-dev (though dpkg had some problems with it)12:47
liribefr0d_: I didn't12:47
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liribefr0d_: the pykaraoke_mini which is just the player doesn't need wxpython12:48
befr0d_ah I see12:48
liribefr0d_: the pykaraoke frontend gui needs it for drawing the windows of the playlist etc12:48
liribefr0d_: but it's interesting to realize what made it work... grab the package and try running it too if you will12:48
befr0d_yep12:49
befr0d_those 2 warnings on pygame appear also with pyano12:49
befr0d_so I believe its 'normal'12:49
atka_befr0d, thanx, i lost an "s" ^^12:52
liribefr0d_: so pykaraoke_mini is running without any additional installs?12:52
nomismhm, updated busybox.12:53
nomiswhat is andre's nick?12:53
befr0d_andre__12:54
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atka_tablets-dev.nokia.com is very slow.. :(12:54
nomisandre__: I want to suggest the inclusion of the "wget" applet in busybox - should I file a bug?12:54
befr0d_liri, yep, did you figure out how to add songs?12:56
nomisMhm, it probably won't stand the "features that are needed by normal users" test as described by eero.12:56
* befr0d_ starts gedit12:56
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liribefr0d_: yep, adding songs is easy12:57
liribefr0d_: you need to tell it to scan a dir, like: ./pykaraoke_mini --add-scan-dir=/opt/kar --scan12:58
liribefr0d_: I can send over a sample .kar (karaoke) file which I found on the net12:58
liribefr0d_: but there is another problem, it requires a midi device, I mimic it on my desktop with timidity so we need to install that also on the tablet12:58
befr0d_oh12:59
liribefr0d_: I'm going to launch13:01
liribefr0d_: seems like timidity is also available here: http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4&sort=hits&show_pck=14113:01
liribefr0d_: keep me updated if you get it running13:02
lirioh, no /dev/dsp because I'm on scratchbox and it doesn't emulate it13:05
liriyuck13:05
liriwell befr0d, it's up to you now to test it :)13:06
XTLtimidity can be pretty heavy iirc13:06
XTLI wonder if the tablet can sanely do it in realtime13:06
befr0d_I'm checking timidity13:07
befr0d_it seems to be on extras-devel for chinook13:07
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rmrfchikcan anyone with latest update (30-2) paste "apt-cache policy osso-software-version-rx44"13:13
XTL"Nothing special."   :-D13:19
* terbo would love to .. but for some reason my system won't update13:21
sp3000osso-software-version-rx44: Asennettu: 1:4.2008.30-2 Ehdokas: 1:4.2008.30-2 Versiotaulukko: *** 1:4.2008.30-2 0 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status13:21
XTLI have a matching -unlocked13:22
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befr0d_yay, 15 years of freedom13:24
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_julian__hi13:44
_julian__I just try to flash my n800 to the diablo image, but when I run the flasher and power up the device by pressing home+power I only get:13:45
_julian__http://paste.biz/paste-3314.html13:45
_julian__then the flasher exits13:45
_julian__any ideas what might cause that?13:45
lbtdoes dmesg show the usb0 port13:46
_julian__[350264.021693] usb 5-8: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 2013:47
_julian__[350264.218005] usb 5-8: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice13:47
_julian__that is what is printed on connect in dmesg13:47
lbttry: modprobe usbserial13:47
sp3000before looking i'll guess you're missing something from the command line13:47
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sp3000after looking I agree with thatt guess :)13:48
lbtno - dmesg should say : usb 5-1: cp2101 converter now attached to ttyUSB013:48
lbt_julian__: do you roll your own kernel?13:49
_julian__lbt: no, running a stock ubuntu kernel.13:49
_julian__cp2101 is available as module13:49
sp3000_julian__: the flasher is silly, it doesn't tell you your arguments are bad13:49
lbtmodprobe cp2101 too then13:50
_julian__ahhh, thanks sp3000 missed the -F13:50
_julian__yup, flashing now13:50
sp3000quite common, that :)13:51
lbtyeah - I just saw Suitable USB device not found13:51
_julian__ok, worked now. (c:13:52
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sp3000yeah, it says that and then waits for one to appear13:54
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tomahi, can i execute jar files on my n810, if so what do i need to install ?13:56
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roadiesOk please dont shot me, but has anyone gotten the scratchbox development environment to work under Fedora? particularly the "af-sb-init.sh start" command to work, Xephyr works and the Hello World program work?14:01
XTLI think someone's tried that.14:04
XTLAny specific error?14:05
rmrfchiksp3000: can u paste your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*14:06
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Khertantoma: no java vm14:11
tomaKhertan: oki, too bad, thanks14:12
XTLtoo good14:13
lardmandoes anyone know of a selection of avis of various small dimensions?14:14
roadiesXTL: lots of errors most I think dealing with remote displaying14:15
lardmanor shall I just convert some?14:15
tomaXTL: there is route navigation software in a jar, that would be good competition for Wayfinder14:15
roadiesXTL: my first gut reaction is the af-sb-init.sh is the problem and was wondering if someone had solved it14:16
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XTLroadies: Have you got anything to display on the Xephr from sb?14:17
XTLOr xlsclients, xdpyinfo or such to work14:17
roadiesyes, the GUI version of the Hello World tutorial program works fine14:17
JaffaKhertan/toma: the Jalimo project is making good headway with making Java usable; and is already at the point of running Java apps not that slowly with auto-Hildonisation of SWT GUIs.14:23
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lbtspooky : http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/218052/government-proposes-internet-tracking.html14:26
lbtAnother example was given in which a UK citizen had been talking in an internet chatroom about self-harming, when local police tracked down his address via his IP number and ISP and intervened to save him.14:26
lbtOuch - that hurts14:26
lbt...14:26
lbt...14:26
lbthold on - someone at the door... bbl14:27
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andre__nomis, i'd rather suggest to include it in upstream busybox and file a bug over there14:42
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roadieswhat is the command line to select a target envir in scratchbox... all I recall is "select DIABLO_X86"  but more is needed...thanks15:06
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eichi_hello15:11
eichi_some news about the maemo update and dual boot?15:11
eichi_i dont want to have problems every time i update maemo with my system15:12
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Blasturhey.. anyone know why i get like ~4 MB/s when writing to my mem card via Linux, and only ~1 MB/s in Windows?15:15
Blasturover USB that is..15:15
Blasturtakes forever to transfer stuff15:15
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timelessgan: so, amusing not15:23
timelesse15:24
timelessthe flash thing is actually a bug15:24
timelessand it's easily fixable15:24
timelessi'll post a package shortly15:24
XTLBlastur: same reader, or nit as reader?15:25
XTLBoth hosts have and support same usb version?15:25
lbteichi_: it's a pain :)15:26
lbtI'm working through it at the moment...15:26
eichi_lbt, thanks15:26
lbthttps://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting would be a good place to document solutions...15:26
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pvanhoofHowcome when I run my app with run-standalone.sh that my GtkButton's images are gone?15:28
Khertanpupnik_: are u here ?15:29
Khertanpvanhoof: gtk theme on maemo specify gtk-image-button = no15:29
Khertanif you want image button to come back just fix that with a gtk.settings_get_default().set_long_property("gtk-button-images",1,"")15:31
pvanhoofaha ok15:31
pvanhoofthat's in vala already, cool15:31
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nomisandre__: there is a wget applet in busybox. It just needs to be configured in.15:32
pvanhoofOh no it isn't15:32
Khertanno is python15:33
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Khertans/is/it s15:33
andre__nomis, ah okay. file an enhancement request then, we can evaluate that for fremantle15:34
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baabacan i really only use the exact addresses 192.168.2.14 and .15 for usb networking?15:36
baabaor is that just an arbitrary choice for documentation15:36
XTLSounds like it15:38
XTL192.168.*/24 type ranges15:38
XTLCould be a default of some sort, of course.15:38
timelessanyone here use facebook?15:39
timelessi need some testing15:39
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timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/flash-player-r48-0.1.deb15:40
baabawell mostly i'm concerned since i'm planning to have multiple devices in the same network through usb networking15:40
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baabaand being forced to use the pre-specified addresses sounds absurd but then the reference for diablo has the wording "has to be 192.168.2.14"15:40
Khertantimeless: sorry ... :) just create a account ... and forgot it 2 minutes later :)15:40
Khertans/just/i ve just15:41
timelessanyway, please try that15:42
timelessit should work15:42
timelessi'm not 100% certain about the uninstall behavior15:42
timelesscan someone please check me on that?15:42
timelessthe package is open source (i.e. you're free to read it)15:42
timelessfwiw, it is correct, we checked15:42
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timelesskhertan: so, test test? :)15:48
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andre__timeless: so, proposal is to have a 4.1.1 version and milestone (corresponding to 4.2008.30-2) and always using '4.1+' for any potential later updates for diablo, right?15:51
timelessyep15:51
timelessi think you might need a 4.1.2, i've kinda lost track of how many releases we've actually made :)15:52
timelessyou'll have to check some web site to figure that out15:52
timelessoh, hopefully the target milestone link can tell you :)15:52
andre__yeah, i liked that one. thanks for that :)15:52
andre__though that page now needs an update for the ssu update15:53
timelessyep15:53
timeless"not my fault"15:53
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lcukJaffa, did you see this http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/13/1857241 :) made me smile.16:10
* lcuk runs back to work16:10
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_marcell_maemo.org should be more stable now. Thanks to Bergie.16:12
Jaffadneary: excellent post on why a barrier to entry is a good thing16:13
bergie_marcell_ actually, when I heard from Ferenc that the servers had moved...16:13
Jaffalcuk: I did :-)16:13
dnearyJaffa: Thanks16:13
* rmrfchik still can't upgrade to 30-2... please, paste default /etc/sources.list.d/*16:13
_marcell_bergie: still, Niels and I had taken a look and could not figure it out...16:14
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baabaerf, how do i go into normal mode in vi on an n810 :P17:05
baabaah right nevermind, i'm kind of blind17:06
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pupnik_back Khertan17:36
Khertan:)17:36
Khertanbye17:38
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RST38hhe he he hehe18:03
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Khertan_n810i m back18:07
aquatixshush all!18:07
liriI'll bug you again about the system tray icon example with a C/GTK code18:08
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RST38hliri <-- habitual bugger =)18:09
liridefinitely18:10
RST38hbtw, I have once created a clean project for the applet18:10
RST38hqwerty12 was going to use it for porting Conky18:10
RST38hI still have the project. Do you want it?18:10
liriwell I'm in a need for doing 2 apps18:10
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liriI need a custom language switch for the n810 hw keyboard18:10
* qwerty12 is a stupid shit when it comes to programming18:10
Khertan_n810someone know gdata.contacts ?18:10
liriand I want a quick access applet for showing IP address and such18:10
Khertan_n810liri > use homeip18:11
roadiesXTL, you still around18:11
RST38hliri: Well, I can't write applets for you but I can give you a clean starting point project18:11
RST38hWill need your email address for that18:11
Khertan_n810you can also write home applet in python :)18:12
liriI want my own :)18:14
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liriRST38h: yep, I want that project if you can email it or something18:16
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liriRST38h: my email: liran.tal@gmail.com18:17
liriRST38h: thanks18:17
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JaffaHmm, interesting comment in http://dot.kde.org/1218543988/ about the Mozilla Qt port: "going to make Maemo use Qt in the future and we were making a browser bsaed on Mozilla for the N810, so now we are making this new browser version based on Qt". If Qt's an equal partner with Gtk, why spend the extra effort? Or is it a sign that Qt is going to become the favoured UI toolkit18:28
florianJaffa: quite likely, yes... :-(18:29
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lardmanwhy likely?18:34
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lardmanas someone who doesn't keep up with the battle of KDE vs Gnome18:35
florianlardman: They own Qt now... and there are a lot more c++ coders inside Nokia that C and Python coders. Just keep in mind that Symbian is C++.18:36
lardmanyeah, good point18:36
lardmanSymbian is weird C++ though18:36
florianyeah... its a big example what weird things you can do with C++ ;)18:37
lardman:)18:37
manyosoi wouldn't put too much into that18:38
lardmanon the page above, there's this Q&A: Do you think Mozilla will get rid of GTK? No, Mozilla will support officially only the ports they have a particular interest in. If it helps to expand their market they will be more interested.18:38
manyosoanyways, does anyone have any good experience with the XSP X11 extension for getting pressure information?18:38
lardmandoes that make sense to anyone?18:38
lardmanmanyoso: page on the wiki?18:38
manyosoWhat I've found is that enabling the XSP extension makes it so I never get any MotionNotify events18:39
manyosohow do I enable it so that I am delivered both raw touchscreen events along with regular old MotionNotify events??18:39
lardmandunno, but look at the souce and I'm sure you'll find out18:39
manyosonot sure where the source is for this18:40
manyosoi know where the headers are, but for libxsp0 itself... i'm not sure18:40
lardmanhttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/libx/libxsp/18:41
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Khertan_n810i m back ... again18:54
lardmanlol18:54
lardmanI'm off18:55
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lardmanis X-Fade on holiday yet?19:18
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lardman~lart alloca()19:27
* infobot stuffs alloca() into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it19:27
qwerty12infobot: lame19:28
qwerty12Can you teach infobot with your own ~larts?19:29
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arachnist~lart batteries19:31
* infobot shoves a crumpet down batteries's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that?19:31
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qwerty12~curse fruit19:34
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, fruit !19:34
* moontiger lurks19:35
qwerty12Infobot is dirty.19:35
qwerty12"<infobot> I learn mainly by observing declarative statements such as "x is at http://www.xxx.com", and then reply when people ask things like "where can i find x?""19:35
qwerty12That website is a porno.19:35
befr0d_~x19:36
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infobotWARNING: qwerty12 has forced me to CTCP VERSION the channel!19:40
infobotVERSION19:40
qwerty12oops19:40
befr0d_lol19:40
befr0d_~x en de your cars rock19:40
infobotIhr Autofelsen19:40
qwerty12I run now19:40
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CptLaptopwtf is ctcp?19:40
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Veggenclient-to-client-protocol.19:41
tank-manirc command19:41
VeggenA standardised way to send special messages/enquiries between clients.19:41
CptLaptopstil ldoesnt tell me shit19:41
CptLaptop:p19:41
VeggenA "CTCP VERSION" request, for example, asks your client what version you are using.19:42
tank-manget a dictionary? :) its a method for communitcation19:42
VeggenA "CTCP TIME" asks what time it thinks it is.19:42
tank-mandec 31, 1999,  11:5919:43
tank-man:)19:43
Veggenbtw, I invented CTCP TIME, once upon a time. I just wanted to look at how ircII source code was built.19:43
VeggenAnd ended up sending the patch to the maintainer, who included it.19:43
CptLaptopseriousely?19:44
Veggenyah.19:44
CptLaptopnice :d19:44
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VeggenDidn't invent the CTCP protocol, though. I just wanted to study how it worked ;)19:44
CptLaptopinvent me a way to do .ics -> activesync19:45
manyosoFor those of you convinced that Mozilla is going to stay on N8xx series have a look at this: https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2008-August/004629.html19:45
manyosopay special attention to the architecture diagram and you'll see that next version of Internet Tablet is likely to have some very cool new hardware19:46
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* manyoso notes the MultiTouch engine19:46
manyosoit looks like Nokia already has a multi touch prototype device19:47
CptLaptopi tried a acer aspire one today and thats obviously not the way to go ion portable computing19:47
CptLaptopNITs ftw19:47
bef0rdhttps://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/attachments/20080813/37420814/attachment.jpg19:47
VeggenCptLaptop: dunno. I *do* need something mobile and a bit more powerful than the tablet.19:48
CptLaptoptablet pc19:48
glass_eee/one are ok for cheap small laptops19:48
CptLaptopsomethign thats not so cheap its crap19:48
glass_but they're cheap small laptops and not internet tablets that go in pocket19:48
VeggenI sometimes do result service for scout competitions far away from any internet connection. I think an eeepc type *could* be right for me.19:49
VeggenI can drag my n810 all the time. I have returned to a stationary for home use. I have a powerful desktop-replacement-laptop for work, but I don't bother to drag it home.19:49
CptLaptopi prefer my hacked together NIT keybaordthingy19:50
VeggenI think an eepc could be right.19:50
bef0rdmanyoso, only webkit support? too bad for gecko :P19:50
CptLaptopthe aspire one KB sucked, and the eee one is evern smaller19:50
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manyosooh i'm sure they have the nokia mozilla team working hard too19:50
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manyosoi'll bet they are competing internally and one will always be kept around as a fallback by nokia19:50
CptLaptopthis works just as well as a netbook for me, kb is better and i dont lose what makes the nit so useful - tablet mode for ebooks ans such http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/n800la1.jpg19:51
Veggenbut for dragging along on travels for the occational check of train timetables, hotels, maps and other information, the n810 *is* the perfect companion.19:51
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CptLaptopi use my nit at school when i dont care to drag my lappy. i dont feel it justified to spend 4000 NOK on replacing it with an AA119:52
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Kegetyshttp://junk.kegetys.net/btkeyb.jpg I find this to be ok for mobility19:52
Kegetys(wiimote is unrelated)19:53
CptLaptopgot a similar kb but doesnt have norwegian characters and its not very stable (meaning it moves around the desk if i press keys hard)19:54
jussio1Hrm, having a small issue with my n800. try to go to download maps, it says I dont have enough space. however I cant find anywhere to change the download location to my wexternal memory card19:54
bef0rdKegetys, that's a bt keyboard, right?19:54
Kegetysbef0rd: yeah19:54
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zfigzDoes anyone use Claws for mail?19:54
bef0rdhow much did it cost you?19:54
GAN800jussio1, real info please19:54
CptLaptopalso i find that BT kb is very slow if you have the nit opaired with a cell at the same time19:54
zfigzI'm getting really annoyed with the default email client19:54
zfigzCptLaptop, that's normal19:55
CptLaptopi use claws19:55
Kegetysworks fine for me..19:55
CptLaptopinternal one is shit'19:55
zfigzYeah...it seriously is.19:55
CptLaptopclaws is nice19:55
Woefix_jussio1 which program are you using?19:55
Kegetyscost 35 euros or something like that19:55
zfigzCpt, how'd you transfer your oldsettings/emails to claws?19:55
CptLaptopalthough it breaks osso backup19:55
jussio1GAN800: what do you need to know?19:55
CptLaptopzfigz: i use imap so no need to transfer anything19:55
zfigzCpt, and you don't get a LED notification with it do you?19:55
jussio1Woefix_: the one that comes as standard with the lateest diablo19:55
GAN800What the hell you're actually trying to do.19:55
CptLaptopzfigz no i dont think so19:55
zfigzArgh, I'll miss that then...but shit...the osso one is soooo slow.19:56
zfigzSometimes it doesn't even start.19:56
Woefix_its just called "map" isn't it? don't you have to pay for that app?19:56
CptLaptophang on i can check19:56
GAN800osso-email is dead19:56
CptLaptopit might do led19:56
jussio1GAN800: just upgraded to diblo, wanted to use maps - came up with map download, clicked scandinavia, it said no room on internal card19:56
zfigzCpt, let me know.19:56
zfigzThe LED notification is the only thing I really like about the osso mail client19:57
GAN800jussio1, clean out your internal card, then.19:57
CptLaptopzfigz it does have a led option, id just disabled it19:57
zfigzOh!19:57
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zfigzSo it does work19:57
zfigzawesome19:57
GAN800manyoso, that's S6019:57
zfigzI'm switching then19:57
GAN800and the 'Tube'19:57
zfigzCpt, did you deactivate osso mail? or?19:57
GAN800I say again, osso-email is dead19:57
CptLaptop"after checking new mail (options): go to inbox, update all fodlers, blink led, play sound,. show info banner19:58
zfigzThere isn't a way to uninstall it, is there?19:58
jussio1GAN800: so there is no way to use my standard SD ?19:58
GAN800It doesn't exist anymore19:58
GAN800jussio1, only if you have an N800.19:58
manyosoGAN800: no, it is not19:58
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CptLaptopzfigz i just put it not to check for new mail19:58
GAN800manyoso, clearly it is.19:58
zfigzCpt, oh ok...then hid it away eh?19:58
CptLaptopyeah i just ignore it :d19:58
manyosoGAN800: the replies were about S60, but the original email was talking about modifications to QtWebKit and running on the internet table19:58
manyosoGAN800: read again19:59
manyosoit is not19:59
jussio1GAN800: problem is, there is nothing but the map and tmp folders on the internal - this is a clean install19:59
CptLaptopi dont use my nit for meila a lot anyways, use my e51 instead since it doesnt require wifi19:59
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manyosoGAN800: quote from the email:19:59
manyosoWhat we have already up and running:19:59
manyoso- Prototype implementation OpenGL ES 1.1 accelerated QT-WebKit running19:59
manyosoon ARM based Internet Tablet device (such as N810)19:59
Woefix_why don't you use another program? Jussio?20:00
zfigzAre any of the Claw's addons worth it?20:00
GAN800Prototype, woo20:00
GAN800That's not the point.20:00
GAN800It's only incidental.20:00
manyosothen what is your point?  S60 was not even mentioned20:00
GAN800It's the iPhone competitor.20:01
jussio1Woefix_: because I want to use this one. it comes with it. :/20:01
RST38hback20:01
teamcobrawoooh..... now what are the chances of it being released? (ogl es accel on n8x0)20:01
GAN800manyoso, it may run on the tablets, but it's not its focus.20:02
manyosoGAN800: she even clearly states that she doesn't work on the S60 team20:02
manyosowhat's more.... the S60 port of webkit is woefully out of shape20:02
manyososhe is clearly talking about QtWebKit and running on arm processor and mentions targeting the internet tablet such as N81020:02
GAN800Jonni is typically a man's nane.20:03
GAN800s/nane/name/20:03
infobotGAN800 meant: Jonni is typically a man's name.20:03
GAN800manyoso, believe what you want. Maybe post Harmattan, but not anytime soon.20:04
manyosohah, ok.  whatever.20:05
GAN800Anyway, why does Qt and ARM not mean S60?20:05
GAN800S60 is ARM20:05
GAN800and Nokia's moving Qt onto it big time.20:05
GAN800RST38h, bugzilla autolinks 'bug #2000'.20:08
GAN800No need to paste the url.20:08
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GAN800andre__, ping.20:11
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andre__GAN800, pong20:12
Id3rfixhello20:12
GAN800What's the procedure for closing bugs these days?20:12
GAN800Previously it was handled by Noia after a release.20:12
GAN800Now. . . .20:12
jussio1so no fixes for my issue?20:13
andre__GAN800, Nokia closed bugs? cool :)20:13
andre__GAN800, what exactly do you mean?20:13
GAN800Well, 'Maemo QA' anyway.20:14
GAN800They'd set bugs CLOSED after the fix was shipped.20:14
Id3rfixnokia n810 violated the GNU General Public License i received the mail from mailing list of http://gpl-violations.org when i decided to subscribe20:14
GAN800lol?20:14
andre__Id3rfix, links, please :)20:15
andre__GAN800, oh they did? interesting :) i "close" bugs after i got verification from the reporter after an update has been made available. probably won't happen that often ;-)20:16
andre__otherwise they remain resolved fixed20:16
Id3rfixyouu must subscribe to the mailing list20:16
_berto_http://lists.gpl-violations.org/pipermail/legal/2008-August/001370.html20:16
_berto_that's the link I guess20:16
andre__no, i must not. i expect archives.20:17
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andre__GAN800, needs a clarification maybe in the bugsquad page?20:20
teamcobraId3rfix, the modified libesd isn't in the sdk?20:20
GAN800Probably. It just typically happened one way and now it doesn't20:20
GAN800worthwhile to be clear20:20
andre__GAN800, so they just put everything to closed? hmm. ok20:21
GAN800Related, what's the deal with ASSIGNED? Its usage seems incredibly inconsistent.20:21
andre__yeah. i wonder what braindead people set assignee to Maemo QA20:21
andre__did they really expect the QA "team" (cough) to check anything? hmm20:22
GAN800Sometimes a bug seems to be 'assigned' but ot remains NEW20:22
andre__no20:22
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GAN800Sometimes it actually gets set ASSIGNED20:22
andre__ASSIGNED and NEW states are disjunct :)20:22
GAN800Clearly20:23
GAN800But I guess I'm just not clear on the nuances of that distinction.20:23
andre__in a perfect world we have an assignee for everything, and a bug in NEW state20:23
andre__when the assignee starts to work on it, he set the state to ASSIGNED20:23
GAN800Ah, so less-than-useful Nokia engineers who have bugs assigned to them but don't actually use bugzilla are to blame?20:24
Id3rfixask to roberto.gordo@gmail.com or to the legal legal@lists.gpl-violations.org20:24
andre__hehehe20:24
andre__kind of, yeah20:24
* GAN800 rolleyes20:25
andre__Id3rfix, what for? why? me? you?20:25
GAN800Did anybody bother talking to Nokia?20:25
Id3rfixmore informations20:25
Id3rfixi want to write to have more informations20:26
andre__ah, cool.20:26
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GAN800andre__, can I talk you into bludgeoning all Nokia folks with ASSIGNED bugs in the NEW state with a large log until they fix it? :p20:27
andre__GAN800, sounds like a plan, though not high priority :)20:28
GAN800Would it help if I got you the log? ;)20:28
lcukGAN800 don't be a skank, flush it20:29
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GAN800Can't, you clogged the damn thing up when you used it before me.20:30
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lcuksorry, my bad20:30
* lcuk passes you the poking stick20:30
* GAN800 gets out the plugger instead.20:30
GAN800A dirty plugged is so much more effective.20:31
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GAN800s/plugged/plunger/20:31
infobotGAN800 meant: A dirty plunger is so much more effective.20:31
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GAN800Weird typo20:31
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_berto_Id3rfix: i'd better write directly to nokia, or ask in the maemo-developers mailing list20:38
_berto_the violation you're talking about is this one, right ? -> http://lists.gpl-violations.org/pipermail/legal/2008-August/001370.html20:38
Id3rfixi would ask only a thing20:38
Id3rfixwhy maemo distribute GNU/linux and nokia not ? In the boxes of pda there are not cd's and the gpl talks very clear distribute the source code20:40
_berto_IIRC there are explicit instruction on how to obtain the source code20:41
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lcukactually you dont have to distribute the source along with the binary20:41
lcuksource is available upon request from the appropriate repository20:41
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Id3rfixthere are not official svn, cvs, ftp, http of nokia where to download the software20:42
crashanddie"[You] can also see who has the most points by category."20:42
crashanddieis this a frigging joke ,20:42
crashanddie??20:42
lcukId3rfix, have you contacted the developer (nokia) and requested the source20:42
_berto_"Nokia offers to provide such source code to you on a CD-ROM [...]"20:42
_berto_there are instructions and a contact address to order the CD20:43
lcukbecause the gpl does not say "there has to be an  official svn, cvs, ftp, http for source"20:43
tank-mani believe it says the medium of the source has to be reasonable20:43
lcukbut if you cannot wait then you can of course just use the proper repo for the maemo distribution and obtain the source for all gpl components20:44
Id3rfixon the user guide that is in the box they say that is possibile to have copy to payment i phoned to the nokia and they nothing say about20:44
crashanddieare you sure they understood you ?20:44
lcukwhat payment does it suggest?20:44
_berto_"Source Code Requests - Nokia Corporation - P.O. Box 407 - FI-00045 - Nokia Group - Finland"20:44
_berto_that's the address20:44
lcukId3rfix, have you got an n8x0?20:45
crashanddiejott, this is starting to become ridiculous20:45
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Id3rfixis a their problem, next time provide to use not free software20:45
lcukId3rfix, what?20:45
Id3rfixi got a 77020:45
lcukand have you followed the instructions provided in your device documentation to obtain the source?20:46
Id3rfixyes20:46
Id3rfixi phoned to the nokia in Belgio20:47
lcukwhat have you done to try to obtain the code, cos i know when i wanted to look at the kernel i just went and found it20:47
_berto_i'd say that the sources are all here BTW -> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/20:47
lcukdoes it say to phone nokia in belgio?20:47
lcuk_berto_, not for his distro they arent20:47
arachnistis it possible to obtain wifi or graphic card modules source that way? :>20:47
_berto_these ? _> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo2.2/free/source/20:47
lcukarachnist, are those gpl?20:47
Id3rfixnothing they do not say nothing20:48
arachnistlcuk: no, and that's the problem20:48
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lcukId3rfix, read the instructions on your device documentation and follow the instructions - for mine they have the address _berto_ just said20:48
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lcukif i want a cd of all gpl compliant code i send a written letter there20:48
lcuki would not expect my local nokia dealer to know anything about specific nokia devices20:49
_berto_in fact you can also use apt-get source from the SDK20:49
_berto_just like in debian or ubuntu20:49
lcukor from the device20:49
lcukarachnist, why is that a problem?20:49
lcukits just like expecting the source for nvidia graphics drivers20:49
_berto_there's a specific address for source code requests in case you don't want to use  the repository above20:49
lcukor dont have a fast connection20:50
lcukor any other reason20:50
_berto_exactly20:50
lcuknokia are pretty compliant from what i can see20:50
Id3rfixso the problem was unsolved20:50
GAN800crashanddie, try not to blow things out of proportion;20:50
Id3rfixi did20:50
Id3rfixthey don't send nothing20:50
lcuksure, some things are not gpl (even silly things) but to they have done the right thing so far20:50
Id3rfixis there a good documentation for nokia 77020:51
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Id3rfixso that i can provide to flash the nokia 77020:51
Id3rfixand to mount only free software20:52
_berto_http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_2-2-gregale/20:52
_berto_here's what you're looking for20:52
_berto_including the flasher tool, the binary image and the sources20:52
Id3rfixsdk is not for me20:53
_berto_in fact there's a project to create a completely free image for nokia devices20:53
GAN800You can't really operate the device with only free software.20:53
_berto_http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/20:53
_berto_see here20:53
GAN800bme is pretty much a necessity.20:53
_berto_well, it looks like you can (I haven't teste it though)20:53
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Id3rfixoh good20:54
lcukId3rfix, to make use of this device with entirely free software stack you run into some limitations because not all hardware is supported with free drivers.  as a none developer i believe your target will be difficult20:54
_berto_Id3rfix: and here are all the sources -> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/Nokia_770_OS.php20:54
Id3rfixyes, but if there are not free software packages i don't use it20:55
* GAN800 rolleyes20:55
_berto_Id3rfix: so use Mamona20:56
lcukId3rfix, enjoy your nokia internet tablet without internet then :)  and about 1/2 hour of battery life20:56
_berto_"Mamona is an embedded Linux distribution for ARM EABI. The main goal of the Mamona Project is to offer a completely open source alternative/experimental Platform for Maemo using only free and open source components."20:56
GeneralAntillesThen no more battery ever.20:56
_berto_that's exactly what you're looking for20:56
Id3rfixat the same time i thank you here is time to go and take the dinner20:56
_berto_arrivederci20:57
_berto_:)20:57
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lcukmamona has wifi apparantly :)20:57
* lcuk didnt know that20:57
eimaihi, I'm trying to use my pc to give my N810 internet through usb with http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, but I hit the DUMMY bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3306 -- can anyone point me towards a work-around as long as the connection manager isn't fixed?20:58
GeneralAntillesThe Nokia employees need to be removed from this list: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council/Eligible_candidates20:59
birunkolcuk, we're working right now to support network-manager =)20:59
lcuknice!20:59
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lcukbirunko, the last i saw of mamona, the battery life was not great - have many things been tweaked and twiddled to extend its life?21:01
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lcukGeneralAntilles, why can't nokia employees go up for election?21:02
GeneralAntillesClearly a conflict of interest.21:02
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lcukwhy?  an awful lot of nokia contractors and employees started out as community members21:02
GeneralAntillesIt's a _Community_ council, not a corporate council.21:03
tomaand they are not part of the community?21:03
GeneralAntillesPrivileged information, conflicts between community interests and employer interests, appearance to the community at large.21:04
lcukand if nokia employees are in the community an awful lot what does it matter?  its not like we are gonna have a sole overlord21:04
* lcuk doesnt like them n us21:04
GeneralAntillesHaving a Nokia employee on the council sends the wrong message.21:04
GeneralAntillesIt isn't about that.21:04
lcukexcluding excellent members of the community for arbitary reasons also sends out the wrong message21:04
GeneralAntillesA Nokia employee has a lot of hats to wear, and wearing a council hat and a Nokia hat may conflict at times.21:05
GeneralAntillesIt's hardly arbitrary.21:05
RST38has sad as it is, this is not an arbitrary reason21:05
lcuksomeone like x-fade for isntance - is here a lot, takes part in things21:05
GeneralAntillesHe's not a Nokia employee.21:05
lcuknokia contractor21:05
GeneralAntillesNot in the Maemo Software sense, anyway.21:05
RST38hthese guys will represent community when talking to Nokia21:05
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'd say maemo.org team members probably shouldn't run, anyway.21:06
RST38hyou can't have nokia employees in this particular role21:06
GeneralAntillesMostly because they already occupy positions of leadership in the community21:06
lcukso, no nokia affiliation at all21:06
GeneralAntillesand because they already have enough to do without also sitting on a council.21:06
lcukno, they write software in the community and nokia rewarded them by making it a paying position21:06
lcukiu have a fulltime job also and then do this ontop21:07
GeneralAntillesLast two comments were re: maemo.org people.21:07
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GeneralAntillesI think the council may already have enough of an issue being seen as too Nokia-friendly by some decidedly confused folk.21:07
GeneralAntilles"Nokia shills"21:07
GeneralAntillesHaving a Nokia employee on the council would only make that worse.21:08
lcukmight i suggest a compromise - nokia employees and contractors should be entitled to nominate themselves, but if voted in must cut ties with nokia (ie, self solving)21:08
GeneralAntilleslol21:08
GeneralAntillesWho the hell is going to take a stupid council chair over a paying job?21:08
lcuki was under the impression that funding was available?21:09
lcukeven if not - it solves the problem by not explicitely excluding anyone21:09
GeneralAntillesFor what?21:09
GeneralAntillesFunding?21:09
* GeneralAntilles is a bit confused now.21:10
GeneralAntillesI think it's fairly obvious that exclusion doesn't have anything to do with past employment21:11
GeneralAntillesSo having a specific clause stating that you can sit only if you quit Nokia is a bit, erhm, retarded21:11
GeneralAntillesAnyway, the reasons for excluding Nokia employees are fairly obvious.21:12
Id3rfixI take the nokia 770 to communicate a thing : actually there are 3 projects opened #madwifi for atheros, their decision to develop ath5k and ath9k bsd license and gpl license, then there is Sebastien with prism54 and p54u prism54 is dedicated to GNU/linux and p54u to freebsd first was available only #prism54 then i create the #p54u and is documentated too on #prism54 read the topic of #prism54, i am only the admin of #p54u then enjoy21:12
Id3rfix yourself and good luck ! Bye bye21:12
Jaffare21:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: the rules on the wiki page made it clear Nokia employees *could* stand, as long as they made that clear.21:14
GeneralAntillesOh really?21:14
Jaffa /whenever/ advertising their nomination21:14
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GeneralAntillesHrm, guess I missed that.21:15
GeneralAntillesPoint withdrawn, then.21:15
JaffaI could imagine two scenarios: 1) someone like Texrat who isn't involved in Maemo Software; 2) someone who is so passionate about Maemo they work on it even in their spare time.21:15
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RST38heither way it is a conflict of interest21:16
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RST38hNokia can tell these guys what to do and what to say and how to vote21:16
JaffaNow, I'm not sure Texrat's involved in the maemo.org community, really (or am I being too arbitrary?), and I can't OTTOMH think of anyone in the second category *at the moment*21:17
Pavlzhere i am now i am using my notebook the ibm thinkpad t2321:17
Pavlzoh, funny keyboard and screen21:17
GeneralAntillesJaffa, well, Texrat isn't much involved in anything Maemo-related anymore.21:17
JaffaRST38h: hence the need for them to advertise that conflict. The BBC doesn't not report news which affects it, for example21:18
Pavlzi got only 256 mb of ram, i must to update, but i got somethig as 30 gb of hd21:18
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: indeed, but he was useful as an example of a Nokia employee who wouldn'tt have a day to day conflict of intert21:18
GeneralAntillesPerhaps, though he does work with tablets outside of Maemo Software but in Nokia.21:19
JaffaRST38h: and who said the Council internals would be a democracy, except in nominating a chair? ;-)21:20
JaffaThe voter selection rules were designed so that a shill would be recognised by the active and involved community members voting; if those rules are changing it could have an impact on other rules like this one21:20
GeneralAntillesMy other big worry was people getting elected for being loud and "anti-Nokia"21:21
GeneralAntillesas dneary outlined on the list.21:21
JaffaGeneralAntilles: inded, I was trying to suggest a Nokia employee who wokeed on things entirely unrelated but who was very active in the community anyway21:21
GeneralAntillesCan't think of who that might be.21:22
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GeneralAntillesThere's one S60 guy on here (whose nick I've forgotten), but he's not very active.21:22
JaffaGeneralAntilles Indeed, again the karma requirement would prevent a loud and disgruntled ITT bloc dominating the results; but maybe the 3 month rule covers that as well. I don't think it does.21:23
Talus46_n810greetings21:23
lardmanre21:24
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JaffaPerhaps the limit should just be something like 5? That'd cover the lcuk case, who seems to be the mascot of the "bah, karma" crowd ;-)21:29
lcukhey i dont care - people are bringing me up about it21:30
* lcuk looks wayyyyy up to the top of the karma mountain and waves21:30
* lardman wonders where he is21:30
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Jaffalcuk: indeed, it's a fairly reasonable point that shows a way of counting IRC should be included21:31
GeneralAntilleslardman, just about to be passed by me. :P21:31
lcukyer agreed - i dont mind being a test case occassionally - as long as i gain karma for it ;)21:31
lardmanGeneralAntilles: lol21:31
lardmanGeneralAntilles: good for you, I've not done much for a while21:31
lcukanyway bbl21:31
GeneralAntillesOr just, passed, since my bug spree last night, actually. :P21:31
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lardmanif you get more than one T-shirt, send me one over :)21:32
GeneralAntillesHow far back do mgedmin's logs go?21:32
JaffaOf course, now poeople can favourite indivudals, so we can give lcuk a vote by favouriting him, if that's desired - proving the karma system works21:32
* GeneralAntilles clutches his now-classic maemo t-shirt. :D21:32
JaffaHeh21:32
GeneralAntillesDoes favoriting users affect karma?21:32
JaffaGeneralAntilles: a fair way21:32
lardmanis X-Fade off now?21:32
GeneralAntillesIt didn't seem to the last time I tried.21:33
GeneralAntilleslardman, believe so.21:33
lardmanGeneralAntilles: reduces your karma you mean ;)21:33
lardmanGeneralAntilles: ok, thanks21:33
JaffaGeneralAntilles : I assumed it'd boost their karma by a fair way21:33
GeneralAntillesSomething like that. ;)21:33
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GeneralAntillesIt may change once every 24 hours with the rest, though.21:33
GeneralAntillesI'm not really sure.21:33
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JaffaIf not, what's the point? And it uses the ssame icons as giving people points for good news21:34
lcukplease everyone vote for me :D21:34
JaffaLaggy GPRS on train21:34
GeneralAntillesYeah, wouldn't be much of one.21:34
GeneralAntillesIf the #meamo logs go back acceptably far, would there be any objections to counting lines here into karma?21:34
lcuk:D wicked idea21:34
JaffaFine by me21:35
lcukive got from the day i installed xchat to now21:35
GeneralAntillesand could something be done to make counting future lines less resource-intensive. . . .21:35
JaffaThere's a page per day, ech run only looks at logs for days not yet processed21:35
GeneralAntillesAh, OK.21:35
lardmanGeneralAntilles: that's a pretty hit and miss approach though21:36
JaffaWell, that's how I'd implement it21:36
GeneralAntillesNot weighted much21:36
JaffaShould be very lower point per line21:36
GeneralAntilles500 lines per karma point.21:36
GeneralAntillesOr something similarly low.21:36
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I suppose it would rate involvement, if not actual contribution21:36
GeneralAntillesJust like the lists.21:36
lardmanis that how they're done?21:37
GeneralAntillesand, arguably, bugzilla for some reporters. ;)21:37
Jaffawhich is all karma does do21:37
JaffaOne thing which'd be good as well is how often *others* use your nick21:37
GeneralAntillesKarma points from the list are just points-per-message21:37
GeneralAntillesJaffa, yeah, but highlight variations?21:38
JaffaThat should be weighted more than your own lines21:38
GeneralAntillesMy name is big and hard to type out, so I get a lot of "GA", "gen", "ant", etc.21:38
JaffaGeneralAntilles: your fault ;-)21:38
GeneralAntillesThat number would be biased towards people with short, easy to type names.21:38
JaffaFair point, tho21:38
GeneralAntillesLines are easy to count and straightforward to weight.21:39
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Jaffaaye21:39
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Jaffaanyone able to implement it?21:39
Jaffaprobably should go to -community21:39
GeneralAntillesThat'd be bergie or ferenc at this point, I suppose.21:39
GeneralAntilles-community also needs to be counted for karma21:39
GeneralAntillesI don't think it is at this point.21:40
JaffaInteresting that in the summary about karma, -community posts weren't being counted21:40
Jaffasnap21:40
GeneralAntillescrashanddie isn't here21:40
* lardman registers a few new nicks, the, is, a, am21:40
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GeneralAntillesI could probably get him to volunteer to write an IRC karma plugin. ;)21:40
Jaffalardman: that's the other flaw ;-)21:41
lardman;)21:41
GeneralAntilles<th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">@X-Fade</th>21:41
GeneralAntillesJust count the nick there.21:42
JaffaI can't favourite lcuk through microb21:42
JaffaGeneralAntilles: ignoring the op '@'21:42
lardman~lart alloca() for being a real pita to replace with malloc()21:43
* infobot urinates on alloca() for being a real pita to replace with malloc()21:43
JaffaIRC nick field is in profile now21:43
arachnistlardman: what is it that you hate about alloca()? :>21:43
lardmanarachnist: the face that tremor uses it alot and the DSP toolchain doesn't support it21:44
lardmans/face/fact21:44
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lardmanThere are going to be lots and lots of memory leaks21:45
arachnistdsp?21:45
arachnistdigital signal processor?21:45
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lardmanyes21:45
GeneralAntillesWow, FBReader people in itT?21:46
GeneralAntillesWeirdness.21:46
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brontideGeneralAntilles: archived at least half of of the Maemo (operating system) talk page21:48
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GeneralAntillesbrontide, thanks!21:48
* lcuk goes and tries something21:48
GeneralAntillesI was thinking I was to heavily involved in that one to do that myself. ;)21:49
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: we're also not counting ITT thankses, even tho reggie implemented the API21:49
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lardmanarachnist: if you know of a plug in C replacement/implementation, I'm all ears21:50
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GeneralAntillesWhat's the deadline for voter's karma at this point?21:50
lardmanGeneralAntilles: deadline?21:50
lbtGeneralAntilles: who was talking about short easy to type names?21:50
arachnistlardman: not really21:50
GeneralAntillesWhat the karma for voting qualification will be counted.21:50
GeneralAntilleslbt, me.21:50
lardmanGeneralAntilles: ah, ok21:50
lardmanarachnist: no worries, I'll get back to it then :S21:51
lbt+1 each - well done that man ;)21:51
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GeneralAntillesJaffa somebody with a little time should look at the karma plugin interface.21:52
brontideIt was time to let that topic die, it was cluttering the talk page and added 0 value at this point21:52
brontideI'm thinking of just a seperate Archive 1 for the rest of the outdated stuff21:52
GeneralAntillesWe also need to count wiki karma.21:53
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* brontide is still confused about karma and how it's linked to the account21:54
GeneralAntillesWell, uh, it attempts to summarize all maemo.org contributions into a number.21:55
GeneralAntillesBy counting things like mailing list messages, garage group membership, Downloads entries, bugs reported, and new items hearted/thumbed.21:55
andre__voter's karma deadline was tonight iirc21:56
GeneralAntillesCandidates karma deadline was last night.21:56
GeneralAntillesI think the voter's is just before voting starts.21:56
brontideWTF does that *mean*21:56
brontidevoting for what?21:57
GeneralAntillesmaemo.org Community Council elections21:57
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council21:57
lcukdave said karma was not important for voters21:57
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GeneralAntillesbrontide, are you subscribed to -users, -developers, and -community?21:57
brontide-devel21:57
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, I don't think we've really reached a clear final decision on that yet. :)21:58
GeneralAntillesbrontide, add -community in there.21:58
lcukin the mail today "explaining karma" he said :   While I disagree with "dangerous", I am not opposed now to using only21:58
lcukthe existence of a maemo account 3 months before the election date as21:58
lcukthe eligibility condition. I will generate a list of eligible voters21:58
lcukbased on this.21:58
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brontidelike I need another high-volume mailing list cluttering my inbox21:58
lcukthats pretty clear to me21:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk, yeah, I saw, but that's not a final decission.21:59
GeneralAntillesbrontide, it's low-volume21:59
GeneralAntillesSetup some rules to move the mailing list stuff to a folder.21:59
GeneralAntillesAnyway, brontide, the threads at the bottom here are the ones you want: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2008-August/thread.html22:00
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* brontide wonder what GeneralAntilles thinks of as high volume. Low volume to me is less than 1 message/day22:08
GeneralAntillesHa22:09
lardmanwhat weirdness is going on in vorbis_book_unpack()?22:09
GeneralAntillesI get about ~70 messages a day22:09
lbtha - upgraded my non-flash partition on tuesday - finally got "system upgraded successfully" today...22:11
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lbtnokia browser start page still has the old maemo logo though22:12
GeneralAntillesWell, nominations are open.22:12
GeneralAntilleslbt, check out about:22:12
brontidehow does it track blogs?22:12
brontidekarma that is22:12
GeneralAntillesplanet22:12
brontide?22:12
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lbtmicroB 1.0.1 ?22:13
GeneralAntillesIt's actually 1.0.422:13
GeneralAntillesand we're now in 200822:13
GeneralAntillesbrontide, http://planet.maemo.org22:13
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lbtI just used appmgr to install the latest upgrade...22:14
lbtaccording to appmgr I can update 'map' and 'Operating System'22:15
GeneralAntillesDO NOT INSTALL OPERATING SYSTEM22:15
lbtd'oh22:15
GeneralAntillesStupid goddamn Red Pill22:15
GeneralAntillesTurn it off.22:15
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GeneralAntillesOperating System is a meta-package for "I want a reboot loop, please, sir!"22:16
lbtthing is, magic crap like "red pill mode" doesn't mean anything22:16
lbtand now I have to go hunting for deliberatley arcane ways to remove it22:17
GeneralAntillesDid you watch the matrix?22:17
lbtI don't even know it is there22:17
lbtOh, I get the ref22:17
lbtbut seriously22:17
GeneralAntillesClearly the _RED PILL_ is not the safe way.22:18
lbtI probably got told to do it22:18
* GeneralAntilles eyeroll22:18
GeneralAntillesYeah, well, that's another part of the problem22:18
lbtor it's a bypass during the extras breakage22:18
GeneralAntillesPeople recommend it as some sort of magical fix-all.22:18
GeneralAntillesIt has its uses.22:18
lbtwhich I followed in good faith22:18
lbtbut it should scream every time I start it up22:18
GeneralAntillesBut a fix-all troubleshooting method isn't one of them.22:18
lbtsorry for not living on my tablet22:18
lbtI forget things like that22:18
GeneralAntillesApplication catalog... : New : enter 'matrix' in the URL field22:19
GeneralAntillesclick cancel22:19
GeneralAntillesBlue22:19
lbtcute - but ultimately not good :)22:19
* GeneralAntilles ponders out his council motivations.22:19
lbthmm "Enter web address first"22:21
lbtI guess the red pill switch mode has gone22:21
GeneralAntillesIn the URL field22:21
GeneralAntillesNot the name field22:21
GeneralAntillesand click CANCEL22:21
lbtthere is no 'URL' field22:21
lbtWeb Address:22:21
RST38hwhy do you need the red pill mode at all?22:21
RST38hapt-get no longer works?22:22
lbtI want it off22:22
RST38hjust reboot.22:22
lbtapparently I put it on at some point22:22
lbtit's rebooted zillions of times22:22
lbt(never on it's own)22:22
lbtdoes it reset on reboot?22:22
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't reset with a reboot.22:22
* lcuk is scanning22:23
lbtGeneralAntilles: you think it is on because I have an 'Operating System' appear as an install option?22:23
RST38hevil22:23
GeneralAntillesI don't think, I know. ;)22:23
lcukGeneralAntilles, in the 10 day test i did on february no surprises that you were the loudmouth :P22:23
lbthow do I check it ?22:23
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lbtmy version doesn't seem to respond22:24
lbtto GA's "matrix" trick22:24
GeneralAntillesWeb address: matrix22:24
RST38hEnjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ22:24
GeneralAntillesTap Cancel.22:24
lbtsorry - "Cancel"22:24
RST38h[why am I not surprised it comes from Fox?]22:24
* lbt mutters about *deliberately* obscure "break me" modes...22:25
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lbtThanks GeneralAntilles22:25
andre__...there's a conflict in georgia? media here should cover more internal USA stories :-P22:25
RST38hlbt: At least it is not left-left-right-right-down-a-b22:25
RST38handre: well, shoot more people!22:26
lbtRST38h: Zaurus user?22:26
RST38hlbt: NES22:27
lbthmm - it doesn't look that bad on paper.... http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/redpill-stable.html22:27
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andre__hmm, ok, the joke maybe wasn't that obvious... :-/22:28
CptLaptopthere should be a torrent site for tablet encoded vids :/ [7randomthought]22:29
lbtandre__: redpill thing?22:29
GeneralAntillesCptLaptop, most, *ahem* videos work just fine for me with mplayer.22:29
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lbtanyhow.... my original problem is that I don't appear to have the right browser22:30
CptLaptopyour porn is slow. my scifi is fast. lagging difference :p22:30
RST38hdoes that ever happen?22:30
lbtand appmrg shows no upgrades22:31
lbtwhat's up with that then?22:31
GeneralAntilleslbt, you do have the right browser22:31
lcukwow :)22:31
lbtI thought you said 1.0.4?22:31
GeneralAntillesI was pointing out that about: also hadn't been updated22:31
GeneralAntillesNot that the logo wasn't updated because your browser wasn't22:31
lbtOK :)22:31
GeneralAntillesMy apologies for the obfuscation.22:31
lbt's OK - I got redpill off and learned something - always good22:32
lcuksince january according to my quite extensive log, KotCzarny is the irc king.  now my log does not contain the whole thing, i will attempt to speak to marius and see how complete his are22:32
GeneralAntillesKotCzarny the spammer.22:32
lcuk(i am second and GeneralAntilles you are third)22:32
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lcukkotczarny helped me loads :)  he never spammed to me22:32
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* GeneralAntilles had no love for Kot.22:33
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GeneralAntilleslbt, thanks for bringing the logo up.22:33
GeneralAntillesI'm filing a bug as we speak.22:33
RST38hWhere is KotCzarny?22:34
lbtdamn - shoulda thought of that22:34
novaterataHi, has anyone had problem where no wireless connections are being found using one boot partition but everything is fine on another22:34
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RST38hDon't tell me he has got an iPhone22:35
lbthow do I fix my irc client to autocomplete GeneralAntilles as GeneralAntilles(KarmaWhore)22:35
GeneralAntillesIs it open source?22:35
lbtapt-get source konversation....22:35
andrewfblackGA did they do thoes wiki server updates seems to be working better for me today22:36
lcuktop 50 #maemo irc posters from january 14 to aug 14 -  http://slexy.org/view/s20lAJ9KUY22:36
lbtgood god, I'm in there22:36
mikkov_great, i have somehow totally borked my scratchbox installation..22:36
lbtdon't let my wife see that!22:36
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, no, not updated yet.22:36
lcuklbt, heh22:36
GeneralAntillesThe ISP had enabled some crazy watchdog script that was killing threads left and right.22:37
andrewfblackWell atleast its working better for now, something is fixed on it22:37
lcukpeople think twitter posts are full of crap22:37
GeneralAntillesbergie figured it out and disabled it.22:37
novaterataI think it happened after trying to install Feature Upgrade that failed22:37
lbtlcuk: twitter<>irc gateway!22:37
lbtI could blog!22:37
lcuklbt :) indeed22:37
lcuki have said on many occasions i use irc as my blog22:37
andrewfblackWell I get a Load Unsecure items on every page I go to now but atleast they load lol22:38
lcuki post random crap ideas cos i know its googlable22:38
lbtsounds like a job for python...22:38
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lcuklbt, im currently looking at some irc extensions to meld our maemo device properly22:38
lbtgo on..22:39
andrewfblackok stupid question but how do you get Karma I got 27 and didn't even know it all I know22:39
lcukwell if you think a stroke is just a list of coords i could use freenode to store all the sketches22:40
lbtlcuk: sick puppy22:40
lcukmixing sketches and chat in one place with whiteboarding etc22:40
RST38hMental Note: Have to cut down time here22:40
lbtbut...22:40
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, link me your userpage and I'll break it down for you.22:40
lbtwhiteboarding...22:40
lcuk:)22:40
lcuki sit here doodling whilst chatting22:40
GeneralAntillesNoo, we need us more RST38h!22:40
RST38hlcuk: Sure you want us all to see your doodles?22:41
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lcukRST38h, im open source :)22:41
andrewfblackhow do I find my user page22:41
lcukidea storming is better if you can draw it22:41
* lcuk just noticed hes on the list twice22:42
* lcuk might make it daily/weekly22:42
RST38hSo, you intend to do doodle<->irc bridge? =)22:42
lcukdoes anyone have a near complete full log?   some of the lurkers over there must do22:42
lcukyes RST38h22:42
GeneralAntillesmgedmin22:43
RST38hmgedmin does22:43
lcuki said up there ill try and contact him22:43
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack: https://maemo.org/profile/view/andrewfblack/22:43
RST38hlcuk: I would then use a separate channel and feed SVG data there22:43
GeneralAntillesYour karma is from Garage project membership22:43
lcukRST38h, svg is heavy on the formatting, im only interested in the raw strokes22:43
andrewfblackCool that I what I figured22:43
RST38hlcuk: So that a "doodle client" would connect to that channel, gather SVGs and draw them onto canvas in different colors22:43
RST38hlcuk: Ok, then yes, by all means22:43
andrewfblackYou get it for adding to wiki also right?22:43
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lcukRST38h, did you install liqbase?22:44
RST38hlcuk: You can even gzip+binhex them22:44
RST38hlcuk: Yep22:44
RST38hBut I have got an old version, one you passed around via itt22:44
lcukthen if you go look into the _apg folder in MyDocs you will see the strokes22:44
lbtandrewfblack: no such luck22:44
lcukits just colors and points basically22:44
lbt(yet)22:44
lcukget the basics working then work on the additions22:44
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, wiki karma plugin will come around eventually.22:44
RST38hlcuk: SVG does have a tag for these22:45
andrewfblackSo what do you get Karma for right now just Garage?22:45
RST38hlcuk: So they will look about the same in SVG22:45
GeneralAntillesMailing lists, Garage, Downloads, bugs, blogs, ratings.22:45
lcukso i waste 80 characters on formatting instead of just saying stroke:(x,y,z),(x,y,z),(x,y,z),(x,y,z),(x,y,z),(x,y,z),(x,y,z),(x,y,z)22:45
lcukexporting to svg is something someone else can do22:45
RST38hlcuk: Yea, that is a drawback of all xml based crap22:46
lcukxml is great but not for this use case22:46
* RST38h should probably go into anal-retentive mode and file more bugs22:46
andrewfblackYou get it for downloads lol I never both to login to download something22:46
lcukyou came out of it?22:46
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, Downloads, not downloads.22:46
GeneralAntilleshttp://downloads.maemo.org22:47
RST38hlcuk: this is just 50% of the total capacity22:47
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lcukyou mean that up there ^22:47
lcukif so, yer i could jsut use binary formatting22:47
lcukbut im not expecting it to work22:47
thefoolI am having some problems getting scratchbox setup and was wondering if anyone could be of assistance.22:48
lardmanha! I've beated you alloca()!22:48
lbtthefool: what's the prob?22:48
thefoolI am trying to install the bora SDK with scratchbox, First I tried using the 3.1 installer scripts but after installing scratchbox the sdk informed me that my version of scratchbox was not new enough22:49
lbtbora.... OK - not been there myself22:49
lbtwhat host OS?22:49
lcuklardman, whats wrong with your alloca22:49
thefoolso I installed the latest version of scratchbox and now the SDK is telling me that it is not fully installed because it is looking for some old files that aren't there on the new version22:49
GeneralAntillesNotice to everybody: it is the _maemo.org_ Community Council22:49
lardmanlcuk: I hate it!22:49
thefoollbt, ubuntu22:49
GeneralAntillesNot the _Maemo_ Community Council22:49
lardmanlcuk: and the DSP doesn't support it22:49
thefool8.0422:49
lcuklol why not the more conventional malloc22:49
lcukahhhh22:49
lardmanlcuk: because Tremor uses it all over the place, grrr!22:50
lbtthefool: have you tried a reinstall of the sdk once sb has upgraded?22:50
lcukif you are replacing it, you muyst ensure you put free() in the right places22:50
lardmanlcuk: tell me about it! :)22:51
lcuklol theres quite a bit of difference22:51
thefoolyea, the sdk informed me that scratchbox was not fully installed, and referenced some missing files that are not in the new version as far as I can tell22:51
lardmanI know, it's pita22:51
lcuki thought that was dsp anyway?22:51
RST38hlardman: Why in the world would you need Tremor?22:52
lbtI suggest blatting the old install and try again22:52
lcukor is the original tremor just arm22:52
lardmanlcuk: ?22:52
lardmanlcuk: porting to the dsp22:52
lardmanRST38h even22:52
lcuklardman, ahhh everything ive heard about tremor has had dsp- before it :)22:52
thefoolblatting?22:53
lcukbut thats just you22:53
lardmanlcuk: no, it's fixed point, for arm basically, but yeah, when I talk about it it's dsp-tremor22:53
lbtthefool: clean out the partially installed sdk and reinstall clean22:53
lbtthefool: why bora?22:54
thefoolok, can I assume it is all in the scratchbox folder?22:54
lbtwell - you can't just rm /scratchbox22:54
thefoolhave an old 770 I want to write something for and for some reason it was not getting along with 2008HE22:54
thefoollbt, darn, lol then what do I do?22:54
lbtOK - just making sure you know why :)22:55
lbthmm - I think you can remove /scratchbox/users/*22:56
lbtlemme check22:56
moontigeri did rm -rf /scratchbox ... worked for me22:57
lbtand did it work after?22:57
lbtie sb-conf22:58
moontigeryup ... apt-get remove scratchbox ... then the rm -rf ... then re-install and all good22:58
thefoollbt, hmm I think I broke things, I rm -R /scratchbox a while back when trying to fix things...22:58
lbtI guess that's clean22:58
lbtah22:59
lbtOK - then do what moontiger says22:59
lbtapt-get remove it and start again22:59
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lbt(although how rm -r ever fixed anything.... <sigh>)22:59
lbt;22:59
GeneralAntilleslcuk, when are you gonna move the images into ~/.liqbase?23:00
thefoolapt-get "Couldn't find package scratchbox"23:00
lcukwhen i release the next version23:00
lbtbbl23:00
moontigerlbt ... i think only *after* apt-get remove does it work properly23:00
GeneralAntillesWoo23:00
thefoollbt, lol yea...woops23:00
lcukbut i dont even think it will end up there23:00
zfigzDo you guys know where to see if WiMax will be coming to my city/state/23:00
lcuktheres quite a few things on the boil23:00
lcukback later23:00
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* GeneralAntilles turns up lcuk's stove.23:00
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* GAN800 hadn't realized Images handled anomated gifs.23:02
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thefoolso apt-get doesn't seem to know what scratchbox is, I foolishly rm -R ed the  /scratchbox folder so things are fairly well borked, not sure how to go about recovering23:03
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thefooluser error sucks lol23:03
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RST38hGAN: BTW, is the bug with Images not being able to handle large images in the bugzilla?23:04
GAN800Can it not?23:04
GAN800How large are we talking?23:04
RST38hNope. Try opening a few 7mpx jpegs23:04
thefoolany clue on how to go about fixing this?23:04
GAN800It got a _lot_ better with OS200823:04
RST38hthefool: Remove SB. Reinstall SB.23:05
RST38hGAN: This is on OS2008.23:05
GAN800RST38h, I don't think there is a bug23:05
RST38hWell, let us not call it a bug23:05
RST38hLet us call it "unwise memory usage"23:05
GAN800Go ahead and file, but please attach a test image and include your real os version.23:05
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thefoolRST38h, not sure where it put everything, and a reinstall is telling me that sbox_adduser is not executable and then erroring out23:06
RST38hthefool: What is your host OS?23:07
thefoolubuntu23:07
RST38hthefool: There is Aptitude package manager in ubuntu23:07
RST38hthefool: Run it from the menu. Find all installed Maemo SDK packages. Mark them as "Remove Completely"23:07
RST38hAnd do "OK" or whatever red button is there23:08
thefoolahh was looking for something about scratchbox didn't think to look for maemo sdk23:08
thefoolRST38h, thanks, reinstalling now :)23:10
thefoolbah same error :(23:10
thefoolalright, missed a package looks to be installing fine now23:12
thefoolthanks again23:12
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thefoolI am getting23:21
thefoolE: Toolchain cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm required for 'SDK_ARMEL' target.23:21
thefoolE: Toolchain cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386 required for 'SDK_X86' target.23:21
thefoolwhen trying to install the sdk23:21
thefoolscratchbox is a fresh install now23:21
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Jaffare23:24
lbtwiki is back to its old sluggish self...23:25
GAN800Hey, Jaffa.23:25
GAN800lbt, least it works. ;)23:25
andrewfblackwiki is mad at me again :)23:26
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RST38hthefool: You are probably missing a repository23:28
RST38h*or* you have not installed the top level package23:28
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brontideGeneralAntilles: not that you don't have enough to do... WTF thumeperwad is asking for speedy deletion of the archives because they didn't get copied over in the rename23:29
thefoolRST38h, dumber than that, it went and installed the latest setup which uses glibc2.5...bora uses 2.023:30
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JaffaExcellent: 3 candidates already :-D23:30
thefool3 canidates for what?23:31
Jaffamaem.org Community Council23:32
Jaffa+o23:32
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thefoolah :)23:32
andrewfblackJaffa: did someone Nominate them self? lol23:33
Jaffaandrewfblack: that's the idea23:33
thefooldon't want anyone to just get drafted and not have the time for it, so I guess it makes sense23:34
andrewfblackLol just read the rest of the email your supose to Nominate yourself lol23:34
andrewfblackthats true23:36
andrewfblackHey I just realized my Windows Theme is on top 100 Garage Projects for most downloads lol near very bottom but on there23:36
* Jaffa decides to sleep rather than write an email23:36
RST38hthefool: Why the hell would you need bora?23:37
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GeneralAntilles~RST38h++23:41
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keesjJaffa has plenty of carma ? going for president?23:44
thefoolmy 770 does not like 2008HE for some reason23:47
thefoolI was getting a reboot about every minute23:47
thefooland I am trying to design an app to interface with a robotics project I am working on23:48
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thefoolI will release the code and all, but I don't see it being much use to anyone23:48
GeneralAntillesNavi!23:48
NaviDamn, I'm caught!23:48
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JaffaThat's so cool: http://www.istartedsomething.com/20080814/uni-washington-microsoft-research-yet-another-mindblowing-3d-photo-viewer/23:50
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GeneralAntillesNavi again!23:52
lbthow the hell do I upload my ssh keys to garage?23:52
lbtdo I need an invite first?23:52
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GeneralAntilleslol, whose in charge of uploading rights while X-Fade's gone?23:53
GeneralAntillesEd?23:53
GeneralAntilless/whose/who's/23:53
GeneralAntilleslbt, I assume you've got an invite at least once, right?23:53
GeneralAntilless/got/gotten/23:53
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: lbt, I assume you've gotten an invite at least once, right?23:53
lbtno23:53
lbtI have a project23:54
GeneralAntillesOh, then you need an invite.23:54
lbtand I just asked 15 mins ago23:54
lbtIwas going to do some prep23:54
lbt(upload ssh key)23:54
lbtOK23:54
GeneralAntillesThe invite has to be processed before you can upload the key.23:54
GeneralAntillesInvites are processed by hand.23:55
GeneralAntillesand X-Fade's on vacation.23:55
JaffaThere should be links on Upload_to_Extras page23:55
JaffaGeneralAntilles: no deputy?23:55
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GeneralAntillesSo, uh, I'm assuming Ed Bartosh is handling it, but don't know for sure.23:55
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algerionahoy23:55
GeneralAntillesHowdy23:56
lbtShopper is ready for autobuild testing - it's been working for a while now23:56
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algerionhow's it going?23:56
lbtit's raining23:56
GeneralAntillesNavi again again!23:56
GeneralAntillesIt's raining here, too.23:56
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algerionrained for a minute here earlier23:56
lbtpretty good then :D23:57
GeneralAntillesand this concludes the #maemo weather report on the 7s!23:57
lbtsince I'm inside23:57
algerionlol, true23:57
algerionanyone play around with android much?23:57
GeneralAntillesAndroid is the epitome of lameness.23:57
algerionas in, is there much to do with it yet?23:57
thefoolGeneralAntilles, why is that?23:58
algerionlol, I haven't had any problems with os 2008 so far23:58
lbtooh, ooh, is Android on the N800?23:58
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DrgnAKIt's much more fun to run it in it's development environment than it is to run it any where else23:58
algerionoh, except it likes to mount my internal flash as read only23:58
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lbtdoes it have an autobuilder?23:58
thefoolI haven't really looked at it but google tends to put out interesting products...if not overly secure ones...23:58
lbtwith adverts23:59
algerionheh, and of course, massive databases23:59
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