IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-08-12

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andre___eichi: i wonder if there's an official page listing the updated packages... anyway, maybe it helps tracking down: http://www.gnome.org/~aklapper/maemo/4.2008.30-2-updates-list00:04
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eichidamn, are all my installed applications away....what the f*00:06
andre___eichi: just to clarify: you were running Diablo before and have installed today's available updates?00:07
eichiyes00:08
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andre___hmm, bad. now i wonder if other people have also run into this issue...00:09
GeneralAntillesDid hildon-desktop just crash? :\00:12
eichidamn my dual boot menu is away too00:14
aquatixGeneralAntilles: my crystal globe says `yes'00:14
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eichii dont like maemo...allways problems... :(00:17
GeneralAntilleseichi, sell it and move on then.00:17
eichiGeneralAntilles, its the only small linux device i know, if there would be some equal with other distribution i would do that00:18
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bef0rdput linux on it00:19
matmmm, I just began the update... let's hope I won't loose everything as well :p00:19
eichimat, do you have dual boot ?00:20
GeneralAntillesYou wont.00:20
GeneralAntillesHe didn't.00:20
eichiits only if you use dual boot with boot from sd00:20
GeneralAntillesandre___, on a sidenote, just copying over bugs like that one into the internal for the sake of copying them over seems like a good way to encourage more shitty Nokia participation. :\00:22
andre___GeneralAntilles, yeah, it doesn't improve things at all. but just stopping that doesn't either00:22
andre___i'm going to have a meeting with some nokia folks in two weeks, hope we can agree on some stuff to improve. in the long term this must stop, sure00:23
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eichisomeone did update with dual boot system?00:24
GeneralAntillesandre___, if we can get them to look at bugzilla, maybe at least you could figure out a way to syndicate relevant bugzilla bugs into the internal tracker?00:25
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GeneralAntillesRather than having two identical reports, one with lots of blathering from ill-informed users and one with useful chatter from Nokia engineers, bugzilla bugs that would normally be duped into the internal tracker would instead be syndicated there so the Nokia engineers don't get to hide.00:26
* GeneralAntilles is really bored with the whole setup. . . .00:26
mat(I'm not using dual boot and update worked fine)00:26
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andre___GeneralAntilles, heh... yes and no. In the internal tracker there's a lot more of stuff with regard to versions, hardwares, internal testing links, and some parts of that i guess shouldn't be public (at least not in early stages)... that is the problem.00:27
GeneralAntillesNokia needs to pull its head out of its own ass and learn how to work in the community.00:29
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GeneralAntillesOtherwise all the hot air about openness is exactly that.00:29
andre___totally right00:29
GeneralAntillesIt'd be nice if we could get the managers behind the change.00:30
andre___but you can't get that done from one day to the next. you have to talk to people and convince them00:30
andre___and show them the advantages00:30
GeneralAntillesTwo years of trying has resulted in very little.00:30
GeneralAntillesIt wears thin after a while. ;)00:30
andre___i can understand that (though i myself don't know much about the last two years)00:30
andre___GeneralAntilles, but you need arguments... "having things open is better" won't work, it's more the "get in touch with your passionate community (and beta-testers) to get things done faster" :)00:33
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GeneralAntillesIt's seemingly impossible to get to people inside of Nokia, though. :\00:33
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GeneralAntillesThe few people that are in the open are already convinced.00:34
GeneralAntillesSo talking at them wont do anything00:34
GeneralAntillesGoes back to the communication issue00:34
GeneralAntillesI mean, Quim is great and all, but having one choke point like that doesn't work.00:35
andre___No, that's why the maemo community people have some discussions (personal, or email) with managers (me too) to change their thinking00:35
andre___no, quim on his own of course can't change the entire company culture :)00:35
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milhouse@andre - thanks for the update on bug 2770 (/dev/urandom etc.), I didn't want to spam the whole thread with a "Thank you, you're wonderful" post :)00:37
milhousethread => bug report00:37
GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#SSU00:38
andre___milhouse, heh, sure...00:38
* GeneralAntilles sighs.00:38
GeneralAntillesGod I hate him so much.00:38
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=212534&postcount=8000:39
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GeneralAntillesSlow damn clipboard00:39
GeneralAntillesSomebody please pick that bullshit apart.00:39
GeneralAntillesI'm too tired.00:39
milhouse+1 successful system update! that was rather smashing. :)00:39
GeneralAntillesAbelMN has the incredible ability to say the dumbest crap.00:40
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andre___to comment on that I should have actually taken a look at the ITt wiki before :)00:40
GeneralAntillesIt's shit.00:40
GeneralAntillesActually, I did a lot of the work to make it less shitty.00:40
GeneralAntillesBut it's still shit.00:40
GeneralAntillesThe "ZOMG THIS IS ALL TOO TECHNICAL N U GUYZ R ASSHOLES" line is getting to me.00:41
andre___ah well... calm down, relax, get a beer (or swap the timezone if it's too early) :)00:42
milhouseandre - regarding nokia versions, hardwares, internal testing links etc., how is it that other public projects successfully keep sensitive/private bug reports hidden in their public bugzilla? Is this not "safe" enough for Nokia, when it seems safe enough for Mozilla to restrict access to their security bugs etc.00:42
andre___milhouse, Mozilla does not ship hardware. That's a huge difference00:43
milhousewhat about security bugs affecting 10m+ users?00:43
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milhouseor have i just missed your point?00:44
andre___don't know if mozilla has a non-disclosure policy or not00:44
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andre___milhouse, it's quite often that there are special mailing lists for security bugs to inform (linux) distributions to ship an update at the same day, and not make the bug public before00:45
milhousei don't know either, but I know that the Mozilla bugzilla has private bugs that are restricted access, Logitech/Slim Devices (hardware manufacturer) have private bugs etc.00:45
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milhouseI struggle to understand why Nokia is so "special" or "different" here00:45
milhousere special mailing lists - the bugs are opened up once the bug is fixed/released... Nokia could do the same with their bugs once the hardware is released/announced etc.00:46
andre___indeed, that's what i want to find out too. definitely because there's also hardware involved, and maybe because some stuff, e.g. links to the testing infrastructure, is probably also something considered secret00:46
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nemomilhouse: big companies aren't good on flexibility or unknowns00:46
andre___having private bugs is not the issue here. it's more about the whole bug life cycle management includes parts that aren't considered to be made public i guess00:47
andre___and discussing why people (deciders) consider some stuff secret is what it's about00:47
andre___if you can convince them that it doesn't need to be secret it's good. but that's not easy00:47
milhouseok, well maybe you're right - but other projects seem to get around it just fine, and not mickey mouse projects but large one, hardware ones, etc.00:47
bef0rdOT: is gmail down atm?00:48
GeneralAntillesClearly there are some things Nokia needs to keep secret00:48
andre___milhouse, give me examples, the more knowledge, the easier to convince them when having meetings or exchanging mail00:48
GeneralAntillesbut clearly the scope of what they keep secret now is far too broad.00:48
milhousebef0rd: yep, seems to be down here (UK)00:48
milhousebef0rd: "Information is temporaryily unavailable" on my iGoogle00:48
GeneralAntillesMake it simple, open source things track in bugzilla, closed things in the internal tracker.00:49
andre___GeneralAntilles, right. and some of the things that even i see part of being secret are currently part of a bug's life in the internal tracker, unfortunately00:49
GeneralAntillesThe code is there for all to see, and the bugs should be too.00:49
andre___sure, that's what i also want to propose00:49
milhouseandre: Logitech/Slim Devices operate a bugzilla with restricted access bugs (can't give you any #'s but I came across one the other day which said "Restricted, naff off" or words to that effect) http://bugs.slimdevices.com/00:49
GeneralAntillesTime wasted on stupid administrative overhead syncing between internal and external is a good argument.00:50
andre___definitely +1. just need to look at more internal bug tickets from totally open projects and which info is in there that might be argument of discussion to *not* do it00:50
milhouseSlim Devices ship hardware, Squeezeboxes, Transformers, Duets etc.00:50
milhouseMozilla is the other one, of course00:50
GeneralAntillesSlows down bug diagnosis and fixing.00:50
bef0rdmilhouse, thanks!00:50
GeneralAntillesAnyway, gotta pick my folks up from the airport.00:50
GeneralAntillesLater all.00:50
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* GeneralAntilles steps back, relaxes.00:51
milhouseandre: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50788&highlight=secret00:51
milhouseKDF is one of the Slim Devices developers (but not an employee)00:51
andre___again, i don't think you can compare mozilla. they don't ship hardware, they don't have "commercial testing cycles" (or however to express)00:51
andre___and mozilla will not get sued if they ship broken software, while i guess that nokia might be afraid of that. (just guesses.)00:52
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andre___milhouse, the problem can't be solved by having secret bugs00:52
milhouseno, but what I was getting at was how secure the mechanism is to protect bugs - is it reliable and not easy to hack? If it's reliable then Nokia could potentially use it - if Mozilla use this mechanism to restrict access to security related bugs then I'm pretty sure it's quite reliable00:52
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andre___the problem right now is that *every* internal report includes some info that some "deciders" consider to be not public00:53
milhouseandre: maybe so, but it's also about removing the barriers to getting the nokia developers involved00:53
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milhousegrrrrr... management. :)00:53
andre___heh :)00:53
andre___err... it is reliable, we use it in GNOME too. but it has nothing to do with the problem we discuss here :)00:54
andre___we can't set ALL bugs to private ;-)00:54
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andre___...but that's a good discussion here, it helps me collecting arguments and getting some thoughts and opinions. thanks :)00:55
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andre___bef0rd, fyi several people in the gnome irc channels say that they can't access gmail too00:56
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wizais there any release notes about today's updates?00:59
wizamap/feature upgrade?00:59
milhousecrikey, changelogs have been promised for so long now00:59
andre___i can offer you the list of updated packages, and querying maemo bugzilla for resolved bugs with target milestone 4.1+ set01:00
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milhouseandre: pulling bug refs from bugzilla would be a good start - that's what we've been asking for a long, long time (at one point it was promised, about 3 releases ago I think...)01:01
milhousealthough do we actually know these bugs have been fixed?01:01
milhousei always got the impression that the process was a little "chaotic", possibly because of the two tracking systems...01:02
andre___it should be correct. otherwise you can blame me in lots of cases ;-)01:02
milhousenever :)01:02
andre___it would be also chaotic when only having one tracking system, i promise you ;-))01:02
milhousethere's a mail thread discussing the upstream issues, but tracking our own bugs shouldn't be an onerous task01:03
andre___mail thread? where?01:03
milhousehere we are - I think I know the annoying weaselbag who kicked it off... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/20045?nohighlight=1#2004501:05
andre___i'm confused - what mailing list is that? it doesn't seem to be maemo-developers@maemo.org01:08
milhouseit is - it's a different format01:08
milhouseit must be syndicated01:09
andre___why isn't that in the archives in http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers then?01:09
milhouseshould be...01:09
andre___i'm subscribed to maemo-developers@maemo.org01:09
andre___and i haven't seen those postings01:09
andre___what the01:09
andre___oops.01:10
andre___ok.01:10
milhouse:)01:10
andre___all is 2007, sorry01:10
andre___i somehow read 200801:10
milhouseyep - 18 months ago... hah! 2008? :)01:10
andre___i'm a newbie, bare with me :)01:10
milhousenah, this has been a topic that surfaces with every release... probably since the earliest days01:10
andre___maybe time to renew that topic01:10
milhousesounds like a great idea01:11
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milhousea jakub alluded to, a simple list of bugs based on target milestones shouldn't be too hard to produce - but would be a leap forward in terms of what we've been getting since the first releases.01:11
milhouses/a/as/01:12
infobotmilhouse meant: as jakub alluded to, a simple list of bugs based on target milestones shouldn't be too hard to produce - but would be a leap forward in terms of what we've been getting since the first releases.01:12
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andre___https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&target_milestone=4.1%2B&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED should list the public bugs fixed in today's update01:13
andre___uhm. no, have to correct myself01:14
andre___some of them have been fixed after week 30 when the update was pacakged01:14
milhouseandre! get it together!!01:14
milhousewoops01:14
andre___heh01:14
milhouseah well... but at least you're in the loop, maybe going forward we can work towards producing a list with each release?01:15
milhousecan you narrow your query by date as well?01:15
milhousepre week 30 etc?01:15
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andre___you can01:15
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andre___https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=Maemo+Software&target_milestone=4.1%2B&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=2008-07-31&chfield=resolution01:18
andre___but that's also not perfect, garrr01:18
milhouseI'm going to have to leave you to it - getting late here and I haven't had my dinner... :)01:19
andre___heh. i'm also going to leave for today...01:19
milhousewould it be possible to publish the bugs (quim?) once you have a definitive list? at some point, whenever you're ready...01:19
andre___quim is on vacation for the rest of the month, but it may be a good topic for tomorrow evening's sprint meeting - wanna join?01:20
milhousei think that would help raise visibility of bugzilla too, and maybe spur people on to use it more01:20
milhousei'll try - what's the format - irc?01:20
milhousetime?01:20
andre___https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint401:20
andre___1900 UTC01:20
milhouseoh god, what's that in UK time?01:21
milhouse:)01:21
milhouseare we utc or gmt right now i have no idea!01:21
milhouseit's 23:21 here now01:21
milhouses/gmt/bst/01:21
andre___UTC is 22:21 for you01:21
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andre___so it's tomorrow at 20:00 in the UK :-P01:22
milhouseok, so 20:00 BST - cool01:22
andre___well, probably it's just boring. but getting more community involved is always good...01:22
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milhouseif i can make it home in time i'll drop by01:23
milhouseshould be there if all goes to plan01:23
milhouseright, dinner time - night all!01:23
andre___enjoy your meal, gnight01:23
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t_s_otypical that my isp should have trouble right now01:27
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GeneralAntilles~changelog01:55
infobot[changelog] dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile whatever.deb | tar xOf - '*changelog.Debian.gz' | gzip -d | less01:55
GeneralAntilles~change-log01:55
GeneralAntilles~diabl-changelog01:55
GeneralAntilles~diablo-changelog01:56
infobotit has been said that diablo-changelog is Announcement: http://tinyurl.com/6k7q7q Version chart: http://tinyurl.com/5duv6t Bugzilla: http://tinyurl.com/68bffr Wikipedia: http://tinyurl.com/4wafha01:56
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GeneralAntillesEhehe, Karel finally lost it.02:11
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t_s_ofunny, after the reflash the maemo extra repo was disabled02:15
t_s_o"finally"? i figure that person was long gone...02:15
GeneralAntillesReflash or SSU upgrade?02:15
GeneralAntillesEhehe02:15
GeneralAntillesOK, he's finally really lost it and started flailing around at innocent bystanders like a madman. ;)02:16
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t_s_oreflash after a borked ssu upgrade...02:18
dougtis there any reason to not upgrade to diablo?02:19
GeneralAntillesdougt, well, there are lots of reasons for lots of things. ;)02:20
GeneralAntillesBut my short answer is, no.02:20
dougtokay.02:21
GeneralAntillesEspecially not with 30-2 being out and MicroB getting such a boost.02:21
dougtwhat do you mean, MicroB getting such a boost.02:21
GeneralAntillesIt's a lot more responsive opening, closing and switching windows02:21
dougtah02:21
GeneralAntillesand browsing is just a touch faster overall.02:21
* timelyx chuckles02:22
timelyxandre___: i'm going to pull xrefs for the new diablo eventually, it'll take me a bit02:22
timelyxuntil then, i'm not going to verify code bugs02:23
timelyxdougt: in general, unless you've installed lots of third party software which you don't think has been updated yet, you should update02:24
timelyxit's the same as w/ the iPod or iPhone02:24
timelyxor Firefox02:25
dougttimelyx: :-)02:25
timelyxas long as any 'interesting' or 'critical' addons are still supported in the newer version, upgrade!02:25
dougtjust got that cable i was missing at the summit02:25
timelyx:)02:25
dougtthey are hard to find here.02:25
dougthad to order it from amazon.02:25
timelyxbtw, i really wanted to spend more time talking, you never demo'd that device: (02:25
dougtyeah, i know.02:26
dougtit went way to quick.02:26
* timelyx nods02:26
dougtdid you take the bus on friday?02:26
timelyx11pm on thursday02:26
timelyxbut i left the dinner w/ dave who needed to catch the 10pm02:27
dougt10am?02:27
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timelyxpm02:27
dougti took the 3am without sleeping prior.02:27
dougtit was not a fun trip back home.02:27
timelyxi'm pretty sure we slept on the bus02:27
dougtdon't remember?02:28
timelyxhowever i also slept when i arrived in LA02:28
timelyxwell, i think laura remembers being amused by me sprawled out across 3+chairs (+aisle)02:28
dougtnice.02:28
dougtno pictures.02:29
timelyxi know she slept, and i suspect i wasn't awake when she noticed me like that02:29
timelyxhey, at least i found my camera02:29
timelyxi had put it in one of my bags :o02:29
dougtgrats.02:29
timelyxsadly, i left my suit jackets in the hotel room02:29
dougtbtw, i made it through security and onto a plane w/ a full tube of toothpaste.02:29
dougt(i didn't know i packed that big of a tube)02:30
timelyxheh02:30
* dougt wonders if I am now on a watch list.02:30
timelyxi don't think i'll mention anything i didn't do right02:30
dougtprobably a safe idea.02:30
dougtsay...02:30
dougtwhy do you build microb stuff with no-unit-at-a-time02:31
timelyxmost of those optimizations were picked by people who had no clue02:31
timelyxand in testing using gecko default options was better02:31
timelyxthe other reason historically has been that the compiler was really flaky02:31
crashanddiedougt, you're on the ATF watch list, that's for sure !02:34
GeneralAntillestimelyx, you happen to know the 30-2 tablet browser release version off the top of your head?02:34
GeneralAntillesThe about: page still hasn't been updated for 30-2. . . .02:34
timelyxnope, that's what debian is for02:35
timelyxdpkg / apt-cache or something02:35
t_s_ough, where oh where did x hide its keyboard layouts again. i keep forgetting :(02:35
timelyxas i told andre___, i haven't pulled xref yet02:35
dougtcrashanddie: oh, that atf thing is for something else.... i helped with crypto stuff when it was pretty illegal to ship anything without going through alot of pain.02:35
timelyxGeneralAntilles: as usual, we're finding out about releases after you guys do :)02:35
GeneralAntillesNice. . . .02:36
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, osso-browser                                     3:2.1.5-102:36
timelyxcrashanddie: that's a meta package02:36
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, bzzt02:36
timelyxnot very useful02:36
timelyxhe probably wants microb-engine02:36
timelyxor tablet-browser-*02:36
crashanddie microb-engine                                    1.0.4-60.1402:37
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timelyxGeneralAntilles: if you mean have we moved gecko tags, i can't remember02:37
GeneralAntilles"1.0.4" on wikipedia02:37
timelyxthe plan says we move to 3.0.1 at some point02:37
GeneralAntillesI guess I should update the release date, at least. . . .02:37
timelyxanyway, it's late02:37
timelyxlate... it's really late02:38
crashanddiedougt, I thought it was for the magic 9 mil casing that suddenly started appearing in your neighbourhood02:38
crashanddiedougt, thought, thanks, I'll tag your file with "update needed"02:38
dougt:-)02:38
dougtno problem.02:38
crashanddies/t,/,/02:38
infobotcrashanddie meant: doug, thought, thanks, I'll tag your file with "update needed"02:38
dougtand it is a 40 cal. i use.02:38
crashanddiedjeezus02:38
dougt:-)02:38
crashanddie~lart infobot02:39
* infobot turns crashanddie into a lifesized tux doll02:39
crashanddieAAAAAARGGGGGH02:39
GeneralAntillesbot-pwned02:39
* crashanddie slams liqbase down infobot's throat02:39
dougtsearching on http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ is busted.02:40
timelyxthere are 2 other search engines02:40
timelyxthe older one was gronmeyer (?)02:40
GeneralAntillesgronmayer.com/it02:40
GeneralAntillesDoes not include Diablo repositories.02:41
GeneralAntillesferenc is working on a packages.maemo.org that may be live sometime before the summit. :P02:41
timelyxouch02:41
timelyxdoes the other repo tracker handle diablo?02:41
GeneralAntillesThe Diablo repos could be added to gronmayer02:42
GeneralAntillesbut I'm disinclined to do it myself, as it only encourages more usage of system-breaking 3rd-party repositories.02:42
GeneralAntillessite:http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo will work for you.02:42
GeneralAntillestimelyx, Pack Rat was down last time I checked.02:43
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GeneralAntilleshttp://ageofikon.info/packrat/02:43
GeneralAntillesIt's back up, I guess.02:44
GeneralAntillesOr maybe not02:44
* GeneralAntilles stabs rm_you.02:44
GeneralAntilles~pack-rat is http://ageofikon.info/packrat/02:44
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles02:44
* rm_you is stabbed02:44
* rm_you fixes02:44
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rm_youima turn off cron02:46
GeneralAntillesHehe, if only Maemo Software had that sort of response time. :p02:46
rm_youit won't update automatically, but... that was breaking it instantly02:46
rm_youso02:46
rm_youwhatever02:46
rm_youi'll update it manually every week or so02:46
rm_youuntil i figure out why it breaks02:46
rm_youI are packing02:47
rm_youerk MySQL is broken i think02:47
rm_youthat seems to be the issue02:47
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rm_youit breaks... sometimes?02:48
rm_youso weird02:48
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t_s_oand things are back to normal...02:55
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t_s_oeven my gpe calendar stuff have survived, nice :D02:56
t_s_oeven tho it seems i have a older version, before the crash bug fix...02:57
t_s_oextra devel next i guess...02:57
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t_s_ohmm, did the media player get a slight interface update?03:13
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t_s_ohmm, i do hope that nokia makes a in hardware way for future tablets to boot of a SD card or similar03:29
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GeneralAntillest_s_o, recovery mode?03:36
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GeneralAntillesYeah, that would be rather cool03:36
GeneralAntillesActually, there _IS_ a recovery mode that's been implemented as part of SSU.03:36
t_s_oyep, maybe with some way to do a serial terminal pr usb or something ;)03:36
GeneralAntillesI have no idea how it's activated, nor how it works, though.03:36
t_s_ofigures03:36
GeneralAntillesI've only heard it mentioned twice.03:37
GeneralAntillesSo it may not be entirely up-to-speed, though.03:37
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t_s_ook03:38
t_s_ostill, with how much the backups store of settings and other data, doing a reflash is not that much of a issue any more03:39
t_s_oannoying, but not much of a checklist03:39
t_s_oi see that the app manager will even tell you its a good idea to do a backup and supply a button for it so03:40
t_s_omy major issue was that is had the lib issue and tried to use -unlocked via apt-get. that resulted in some error or other and dead wifi...03:41
ds3GeneralAntilles: you mean the ability of the processor to boot of the SD card in place of the NAND?03:41
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t_s_ohmm, super soaker with ice cubes. pass the vodka ;)03:53
t_s_omeh, off to bed03:55
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GAN800ds3, well, anything really.04:04
GAN800Something that'd be easy for newbies to use and worked with the shipped software set preferably.04:05
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ds3GAN800: the feature I am thinking of is far not newbie friendly04:12
ds3s/far//04:13
infobotds3 meant: GAN800: the feature I am thinking of is  not newbie friendly04:13
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ryoohkihas nokia said when the n810 wimax version is coming out?04:26
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GAN800ryookhi, 'summer 2008'04:27
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GAN800It's highly dependent on Sprint getting their shit together, though.04:27
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mikkov_and that is dependent on when ex Nokia Networks get's their shit together?04:32
mikkov_gets04:32
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Capn_FishMy system just updated, as did the initfs. Since I'm running Debian off of my SD card, that's no good, so I went to reflash it, but fanoush's initfs flasher says "unknown initfs version 2008-29" How can I flash my initfs back so I can use Debian?04:46
trev0rdoesn't debian run really slow04:47
Capn_FishNo04:47
Capn_FishIt runs quite nicely04:47
Capn_FishIt's FAR superior to Maemo04:47
trev0rreally?04:48
trev0rweird04:49
Capn_FishWhat makes you think it's slow?04:49
trev0ron what, n810?04:50
Capn_FishYa04:50
trev0rlack of ram and a slow cpu i would think04:51
aspectwhat makes it superior to Maemo?04:52
Capn_FishYou can pick your WM, you can run standard apps on it, there's more software available for it, it gets regular updates, etc.04:53
Capn_FishTake your pick04:53
aspectthey're all good reasons :)04:53
trev0rwhat browser do you use in it04:53
Capn_FishOh, and readily available onboard development tools04:53
Capn_FishEpiphany-gecko04:53
Capn_FishWith Flash support :)04:54
aspectlack of hildon might be a bit annoying, but I'm sure that can be worked around with a bit of effort04:54
Capn_FishDebian HAS Hildon packages, not that I'd want them04:54
aspectonly onboard development tool I want is tcl/tk ... bugger compiling on a pocket device :)04:54
Capn_FishNah. It's not too bad04:54
trev0rhow's the speed ?04:54
Capn_FishBetter than on a Zaurus04:55
trev0rof ghe browser04:55
Capn_FishI'd say on par, maybe a little slower, than the default in Maemo04:55
trev0rgroovy04:59
Capn_FishIt is quite nice05:00
Capn_Fishhttp://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet05:01
Capn_FishHave fun05:01
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Capn_FishOh, I just needed to download the latest initfs_flasher from fanoush's site :P05:10
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smackpotato14.2008.23-14 am i missing a repository05:46
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chmacCan anyone recommend a password manager for maemo? I want to keep my encrypted password list in sync between my laptop and tablet06:38
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Italodance.07:37
terbo^07:38
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bef0rdv07:44
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burnteam I the only guy that the new update borked/07:54
burnte?07:54
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bef0rd<t_s_o> reflash after a borked ssu upgrade...08:00
burnteoh, I already did08:00
burntehours ago08:00
burnteI was just hoping I wasn't alone08:00
burntemisery loves company.08:00
burnteI'm reloading apps and such now.08:00
bef0rdheh, it seem to have failed for t_s_o too08:00
bef0rdit worked ok for me though08:01
doc|homenew flash image?08:01
burnteFunny, my SD card came in today, and I was thinking, "Boy, now I an work on backing up the entire partition...08:01
burntedoc|home: No, slipstreamed upgrade08:01
doc|homeoh well bugger08:01
burntedownlaodable, no reflashing needed08:01
burntewell08:01
burntelet me rephrase that08:01
doc|homenot such a good thing then :)08:01
burntenone SHOULD be needed.08:01
doc|homeheh08:01
burntein my case, and the case of a few others, yes.08:01
bef0rdburnte, did you have a bootmenu installed?08:04
burntenope08:04
burnteRD mode, root access, btu no boot menu08:04
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burntecan anyone else get to maemo.org?08:10
* bef0rd tries08:10
bef0rdFirefox can't establish a connection to the server at maemo.org08:10
burnteI can't from PA, another friend can't from Florida, so... yeah08:11
burnteI thought so08:11
burntethis is obviously a concerted effort to keep me from having a working tbalet.08:11
burnteforst they break my tablet with their "update" then they keep me from my apps.08:11
burnteEVERYONE IS OUT TO GET ME!08:11
acydlordlol08:11
acydlordtried flushing your dns cache?08:12
burnteyes, although I doubt everyone was using my same DNS server. :)08:12
burntethere's a router or server down08:13
burntehops fail after 62.176.60.16208:13
bef0rdmaybe they applied the update and it broke the n800 webserver08:14
bef0rd:P08:14
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burntethat's it!08:14
burntethey tested the update on a production server, like any sensible admin would.08:14
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bef0rdlol08:16
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chmacWas there a recent update that caused problems?08:18
burnteindeed.08:18
chmacI think I've got some updates pending...08:18
chmacburnte: What was the update?08:18
bef0rdit didnt cause any problem for me :P08:18
burnteChanServ: The OS2008 update08:19
chmacHave you guys managed to get a tool that safely stores passwords on both desktop / tablet?08:19
burntebef0rd: That's becaus eyou're obviously in on everything.08:19
burntechmac: Post-It notes are secure enough for me!08:20
chmacburnte: You mean the flash update to OS2008? Or is it something that downloaded through application manager?08:20
chmacburnte: Not very portable though! :)08:20
burntechmac: The slipstreamed update.08:20
chmacburnte: Not sure what that is. Something I have to specifically download? Or will it try to auto-install?08:21
burnteAFAIK nothing automatically downloads08:21
burntemost people have been fine08:21
bef0rdtry to click 'check updates'08:21
burntebut a few unlucky soulds got borked08:22
bef0rdthen you can choose if you want to download it or not08:22
chmacI install all the repos from that list, so it takes forever to get updates, etc08:22
chmacLooks like gringotts might be the best choice...08:24
chmacHas a desktop and a tablet client... :)08:25
bef0rdcool, didn't know the built in image viewer also included some basic editing stuff :)08:28
RST38hmoo all08:31
burntemoo.08:35
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chmacAnyone else using Gringotts?08:47
chmacI've just installed, but it's missing a lib...08:47
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moontigerdid they fix the bluetooth PAN issue with this update at all?08:54
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Mace_hi09:22
Mace_anybody here use att for their connection?09:23
Mace_using bt?09:23
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zaptry to divide the number of the users on this channel by the number of internet users worldwide, and then multiply it by the number of att customers09:27
zapyou'll get the approximative probability of this happening09:28
zapah yes, and multiply by the number of users using BT divided by the overall number of internet users09:28
zapMy estimated guess is something like, 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%09:28
GAN800Mace_, I am.09:33
zapoh! this is a wonder!09:33
zap(wonder == very little chance event happening)09:33
GAN800moontiger, no, the dummy connection fixed were not pushed.09:33
* GAN800 eyeroll @ zap09:33
zap;)09:34
GAN800maemo.org working for anybody else?09:34
zapnope09:34
zapConnection to 62.61.85.38 Failed09:34
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bef0rdinternet is broken :X09:38
zapit is 0wned09:39
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* qwerty12 is patiently waiting for kernel-source-diablo to be updated09:42
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SargunIs http://www.maemo.org/ unavailable?09:43
Sargunughj09:43
SargunI need the scratchbox install script09:43
Sargunstupid09:43
bef0rdI believe its available at tablets-dev.nokia.com (dunno if that site is down too)09:43
bef0rdService Unavailable09:44
bef0rdpwnt09:44
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Sargunuh09:46
Sargunsomeone call nokia09:46
Sargun:-P09:46
GeneralAntilles_marcell_, fix maemo.org. :(09:48
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Sargunthanks10:09
Sargunmoontiger,10:09
moontiger;)10:09
Sargunbut I can't DCC :-(10:09
moontigereesh ... do u have email?10:09
SargunI'll get it in the mornin10:09
Sargung10:09
moontigeroh ok10:09
Sargunthanks though10:09
Sargunits almost time to get some Zs.10:10
moontigerme too :)10:10
moontigerwhere u at?10:10
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: It seems the ISP doesn't know how to read calendars.10:10
GeneralAntillesAhaha10:10
GeneralAntillesAwesome.10:11
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: So the servers are now in a truck :(10:11
moontiger??!!10:11
doc|homeyou stole the servers?!10:11
* doc|home calls the cops10:11
X-FadeMoving to another datacenter.10:11
moontigernooooo way!10:12
doc|homeoh yeah, says he with the "SWAG" bag10:12
GeneralAntillesX-Fade's getting a new server farm for his basement.10:12
doc|homehah10:12
* qwerty12 goes and hijacks a truck in Finland. dsme source code for all!10:12
GeneralAntillesWrong server, qwerty12. ;)10:13
X-Fadeqwerty12: heh, I'm pretty sure it is not in there..10:13
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Hmm, so garage isn't hosted on that server?10:14
qwerty12X-Fade: hehe10:14
qwerty12It's a shame dsme-commits and dsme-devel are dead :(10:15
qwerty12I learnt a lot by signing up though...10:15
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*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "http://maemo.org is currently down for scheduled maintenance (one day early) | Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | Create the new maemo.org logo: https://wiki.maemo.org/maemo.org_logo_contest | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | http://mxr.maemo.org"10:16
GeneralAntillesAnyway, I'm no longer hungry. Back to bed with me. You guys have fun with the hordes of confused newbies. ;)10:16
X-Fadelol.10:17
* qwerty12 gets the guns out. time to go on a newbie hunt.10:17
RST38hgnight10:17
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moontigernn all :)10:19
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samppaestimated downtime left ?10:49
XTL7hrs?10:49
XTLHeh, there's an i-am-free app10:49
samppa:D10:50
samppa7hours ??10:50
X-Fadesamppa: That is worst case..10:50
X-Fadesamppa: But it will probably be back sooner.10:50
XTLSo make it 910:50
samppaok :)10:50
aquatixXTL: yeah, too bad it needs python :)10:50
X-FadeAngry calls can go to the ISP :)10:51
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samppa:)10:51
aquatixam i reading right that the servers of maemo.org are being moved?10:52
qwerty12X-Fade: Do they speak English? (My knowledge of English swearing is greater than my knowledge of Finnish or Dutch ones :))10:52
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X-Fadeqwerty12: Oh, I'm sure you will get the message across ;)10:52
XTLFinnish does have a more tanglible edge to it, done properly10:53
X-FadeBut apart from them being a day early, we would have the same situation tomorrow..10:53
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samppaso is this downtime becouse of isp ?10:55
X-FadeHarware is being moved to another datacenter.10:56
liriaquatix: I got liferea installed on the NIT and guess what10:56
qwerty12Go on X-Fade, you know you want to don your Superman outfit and get the Servers back of the trucks10:56
qwerty12*servers10:56
liriaquatix: it still refused to get some of those RSS, said they were invalid10:56
liriaquatix: I found one RSS feed that it accepted but it didn't display hebrew :)10:56
liriso no luck for me there10:56
aquatixliri: hm :(10:56
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legindinteresting10:57
samppaso is this going to be the end for maemo.org lagging ?10:57
legindactually the nameservers are down too10:57
aquatixliri: i guess you would have to mail the site owners with some feedvalidator.org results10:57
legindtry to ping ns.nokia.com10:57
legindtry to ping ns2.nokia.com10:57
legindnothin10:57
liriaquatix: yeah and I'll doubt they would actually take that into consideration :)10:57
aquatixnokia.com works though10:57
legindyeah10:58
liriaquatix: the weird thing is that the same website works fine on liferea on Ubuntu10:58
aquatixliri: well, it's their feeds, and they are invalid10:58
liriaquatix: so as it happens the versions DO differ!10:58
aquatixoh10:58
X-Fadelegind: That has nothing to do with this ;)10:58
aquatixweird10:58
liriyep10:58
legindX-Fade, I'm sure its related10:58
X-Fadelegind: Well, then I won't argue with you.10:59
trickie|work:)10:59
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tbfwtf? maemo.org down?11:01
trickie|worksee topic11:01
tbftrickie|work: uh.11:01
qwerty12* Topic for #maemo is: http://maemo.org is currently down for scheduled maintenance (one day early)11:02
qwerty12Says it all to me11:02
* tbf doesn't understand the meaning of "one day early"11:02
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legindah I wasn't aware it was scheduled11:03
qwerty12This email was sent: "Our ISP is transferring the *.maemo.org servers to a new hosting center.11:03
qwerty12Because of this, all servers will be down on the 13th of August, between11:03
qwerty1207:45 and 17:00 (EEST)."11:03
qwerty12As you can see, it's not the 13th of August and the ISP decided to jump the gun :(11:03
aquatixisp's are weird that way11:04
tbfnot quite professionel to shutdown the old servers before the move11:04
XTLYep. They can have your servers shut down and moved halfway to a new rack without you knowing anything about it11:04
XTL(Not that that ever happened to me, no..)11:04
XTLAnd when you bring in new ones, you find someone's UE sitting in your dedicated cabinet.11:05
tbfif my hoster would do that to me, it'd terminate the contract immediatly11:05
XTLBut I don't do that anymore. Ahh..11:05
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KhertanHi !11:05
Khertandoes someone have access to maemo.org ?11:06
tbfKhertan: see topic11:06
qwerty12* Topic for #maemo is: http://maemo.org is currently down for scheduled maintenance (one day early)11:06
Khertanhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22733&page=1611:06
tbfKhertan: obviously Nokia hired the cheapest of all cheap web hosters for running maemo.org11:06
Khertan:)11:06
Khertanlol haven't see topic :)11:06
Khertanthx11:06
Khertantbf > the hoster isn't bad ... just the driver of the 33.6k modem is unstable11:07
qwerty12lol11:07
tbfhehe11:07
Khertansurely a win modem used under linux11:07
Mekdamn... lovely planning... shutting down *.maemo.org almost at the same time as 100 free devices will be given to hackers at Akademy...11:07
Khertanthere is more bad ... when many user get notifications of an diablo update ...11:08
Khertan;)11:08
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X-FadeKhertan: That is not related.11:08
qwerty12When there is a new diablo SSU update, do the FIASCO images get updated?11:08
Khertansomeone know something about lightning session ?11:08
KhertanX-Fade > i know11:09
Khertansomeone know something about lightning session organization ?11:09
Khertan:)11:09
Khertana word was missing :)11:09
KhertanX-Fade > just kidding ...11:09
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Khertanusing windows at work is really annoying !11:15
bef0rds/work/*/11:16
bef0rd:P11:16
Khertanyep :)11:16
Khertanthx11:16
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Khertaneach right click on a folder kill the explorer.exe11:18
Khertancopy a file ... lag of 30s11:18
Khertani think something is wrong in the db registry11:18
melmothX-Fade: you here ?11:18
Khertanccleaner ... 552 dll missing11:19
Khertanlol11:19
qwerty12Khertan: probably a dodgy shell extension loaded11:19
qwerty12iirc http://nirsoft.net has a tool that can disable them11:19
mbufone day downtime is from which timezone?11:19
Khertanyep ... this was that ... a dodgy shell extension where dll is missing11:19
Khertanccleaner clean the registry and now work really better11:20
X-Fademelmoth: yep11:20
X-Fadembuf: UTC-24? :)11:20
Khertani m surprised as ... i ve only install a few things on this developpment workstation11:20
Khertanglade / 4D / 7z11:21
Khertanfirefox, mirc, thunderbird11:21
Khertanand nothing else11:21
Khertanrha .... it s come back again ...11:22
egyptanyone know if the cx3110x is capable of injection?11:24
mbufX-Fade, :)11:25
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melmothX-Fade: remember the bugzilla 3416 ? (autoubild binary content change according to final architecture.)11:26
melmothi was wondering if something was supposed to happen on it (ie, is somebody assigned to look at it) ?11:26
melmothor if i should consider building a repo.11:26
Khertanmelmoth > BAD IDEA !11:26
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melmothNote that, because i already pushed successfully one library (clucene-core) in diablo extras, using the chinook binary ends up in a broken install11:27
X-Fademelmoth: Ed is back from holiday. I will remind him about it again..11:27
melmoththanks.11:28
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sven-tekHi11:38
sven-tekis there a way to backup my n800 with image-file?11:39
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sven-tekcreating a image, which i can flash back to the device would be cool11:42
aquatixyou can create a backup with the backup tool11:43
aquatixit will restore almost anything after a flash11:43
aquatixeven installed programs11:43
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aquatixgives you a list with checkboxes which applications you want to install again11:44
aquatixworked well here11:44
XTLA cleanly treated system should come up well with those, yes.11:44
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XTLAnd it won't back up everything (including breakage)11:44
qwerty12mtd-tools will backup everything11:44
XTLSystem gets rebuilt on flash+update and user backup is dropped over that afaik11:45
XTLHm.. pdumpfs might be handy. Although there's not that much changing on the tablet in normal use11:46
aquatixXTL: yeah, that's how that restore works indeed11:46
aquatixworked well here11:47
aquatixrestored all my settings, contacts etc11:47
XTLWorked well for me, too. I've done that once so far.11:47
* aquatix too, yesterday :)11:48
aquatixthank the Light for that OS2008 update asking to do a backup before proceeding11:49
XTL:)11:50
*** X-Fade changes topic to "Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | Create the new maemo.org logo: https://wiki.maemo.org/maemo.org_logo_contest | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | http://mxr.maemo.org"11:54
*** X-Fade changes topic to "Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | ogs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | http://mxr.maemo.org"11:54
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X-FadeHmm ok, not good.11:55
*** X-Fade changes topic to "Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | http://mxr.maemo.org"11:55
XTLAh11:55
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Khertanstill many some 500 error11:59
Khertan+s11:59
Khertan"crap.."11:59
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Khertanlol nice error :)11:59
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Khertanhttp://wiki.maemo.org/ -> crap ...12:00
XTLShould put a [Flame ISP] button on every errorhandler page12:00
Khertanhihi12:00
Khertanyep !12:00
XTL:-D12:00
Khertanwho is the isp ?12:00
qwerty12ARRGH, I'm uploading an avi to the XBOX and the mess of network cables makes me want to strangle someone with them12:00
Khertanqwerty12 > ? cable ?12:01
Khertanthis thing still exist ?12:01
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XTLlaaag12:01
qwerty12Khertan, ethernet cables, scart etc12:01
XTLI had to use an ethernet cable just this morning.12:01
qwerty12I'm too cheap to get an cross over cable when I have a spare router :)12:01
XTLLaptop windos decided there's no network reception. In the end it just needed a reboot.12:02
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aquatixXTL: yeah, that's some backwards feature of windows12:04
aquatixi've even encountered situations where i needed to restart windows when i wanted to switch from wifi the ethernet or the other way around12:04
oilinki3cables are great when using microwave oven12:04
aquatixoilinki3: :)12:04
aquatixoilinki3: don't put your tablet inside such a machine ;)12:04
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XTLYeah. You can use an xbox for that.12:05
XTLRemember to video it.12:05
oilinki3aqua: no need. One time I even rebooted my wlan-router.. just to later figure out that the connection problem was caused by the microwave oven12:05
aquatix;)12:05
aquatixyou might want to try another channel12:06
aquatixslightly different frequencies12:06
XTL"defrost"12:06
aquatixmaybe another channel works better when heating your food12:06
XTLI wonder how broad-spectrum the microwave interference is12:07
XTLYou haven't tried whether it hurts BT?12:07
aquatixoilinki3: or crank up your router's radio power :)12:08
oilinki3I'm ok with that. we are not using the micro so often. just need to be sure that there is no voip call on progress when heating the food12:08
Khertanhum ... if you oven disturb your wifi don't stay too near when you use it12:09
Khertanit should not happen12:09
Khertans/you/your12:09
aquatixtrue12:09
aquatixmicrowave oven should be shielded12:10
oilinki3I suppose there is a bit of leak anyway. and yes.  I rather be a bit away of it.12:10
XTLThe shielding won't stop all of the interference and things like positioning matter12:10
aquatixoilinki3: if bits of your body starts getting cooked, you know you're in trouble ;)12:10
XTLIf it breaks an otherwise clean conn from a distance, I'd worry12:10
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oilinki3basically it does not cut the lines, but there is a loads of erros and for example loading web pages does not work12:10
aquatixeven changing your position 10cm could have effect12:11
KhertanXTL > the shield should stop frequency used by wifi on channel 1,2,3,4,5,6,712:11
aquatixiirc, the wavelength of wifi is about 20cm?12:11
Khertanif it don't ... change it ... the shield have been damaged12:11
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oilinki3it's a new oven so I tought that it should not be any serious issue.12:14
Khertansomeone know spreadshirt.com ?12:14
XTLKhertan: define "know"12:15
Khertanknow -> mean ... are they serious ? how is delivery, fast, slow ... ?12:16
XTLI think they're serious. Haven't done any business with them myself.12:16
Khertani'm trying to make a nice tshirt for the summit ;)12:16
XTLI think they have the idea that you can sell your own designs. Which is pretty neat if you have some low volume project (like a piece of sw)12:17
XTLSo you can have them offer shirts with fan logos to random people12:18
Khertan:)12:21
Khertanmaybe they will be fan for my maemo tshirt :)12:21
Khertanbased on http://khertan.net/poubelle/logo1.png12:22
XTLIf the copyrights are not a problem, you could set up shop with all the logos :912:24
Khertanlol i ve made this logo ... i don't thing someone would wear this thing :)12:26
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XTLAh, but try and mention it on irc and you might find yourself in a sea of your creations :)12:30
XTL(I remembered the logo :)12:31
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rm_youI found someone who is screenprinting random Maemo logo shirts for me for like $12 each12:34
rm_youwhich isnt spectacular, but not horrible12:34
rm_youI may blow up the Adv Backlight logo and put that on a shirt too :P12:34
Khertan... hum ...12:36
Khertan12$12:36
Khertani ven't found something under 22Euros12:36
rm_youO_o12:36
rm_youmaybe i should make tons, and sell them :P12:37
Khertanlol12:37
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Khertanhttp://khertan.net/poubelle/tshirt1.png12:38
Khertanouch ... +6 euro for delivery !!!12:39
Khertan30 Euros ... for a stupid tshirt.... it s a bit expensive12:39
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kpeloh yes12:39
aspectdoes diablo automatically shut itself down under any circumstances other than flat battery?12:40
kpelso there is a maemo logo at last. nice play with the infinity symbol. but why all this pale greyness?12:40
aspectKhertan: maybe try threadless .. I think you need a bunch of people to vote before it's in catalogue but we might be able to manage that :-)12:40
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bef0rdhttp://img506.imageshack.us/img506/8870/bobesponjaillamk8.jpg12:43
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kpelomg, they found bob!12:44
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LoCusFany cool stuff on the new feature upgrade for OS2008?12:48
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Khertanyep there is a new too kweel version number !!!12:50
Khertan:12:50
Khertan:)12:50
Khertanmodest/microb mainly12:50
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Khertanlol ... i found a printed tshirt for 15Euros ... with 15 Euros for delivery ... pffff13:06
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Khertanyeah ... comboutique.fr ... 18Euros ... for one logo and one line of text in the back13:20
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Italodance2008-08-12  maemo.org Sprint4 IRC planning meeting2008-07-28T07:43:22Z dab2a01e5c7811ddaefc737a25da451d451d13:24
Khertan... hum ...13:25
Khertanit s today13:25
Khertanmaybe i could join13:25
Khertanmaemo wiki  : Connection to 127.0.0.1 Failed13:26
KhertanItalodance > could you remember me the channel and time ?13:26
Italodancehi yeah13:26
ItalodanceKhertan umm13:27
Italodance!13:27
Khertan?!?13:27
Khertanlol found13:27
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Khertan just a whois on x-fade is usefull ;)13:28
ItalodanceKhertan no13:28
Italodance#maemo-meeting13:29
lardmanis this going on atm?13:29
X-Fade19:00 utc.13:30
lardmanX-Fade: cool13:30
lardmanAnyone here who knows about hw interrupts?13:30
Khertanhum ... i ll join :) just to see what is a maemo-meeting :)13:30
X-FadeI'll be playing Quim tonight ;)13:30
lardmanX-Fade: right, I'll prepare a long list of questions to paste at you ;)13:31
X-FadeOnly I don't have the answers, like he does.13:31
qwerty12lol13:31
Italodancetoday i refreshed my app manager and saw a new 3d game called ABUSE? anyone knows it? screenshot?13:31
KhertanItalodance .... rohh !:!!!!13:31
Khertanhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse_(computer_game)13:31
qwerty12Italodance, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15754813:32
Italodancethank u Khertan & qwerty12 :D13:32
lardmanI was looking at the mp3.o dsp task and notice there are no DMA strings in there, anyone know if that is encapsulated by XDAIS?13:32
wizadid feature upgrade update kernel too? mostly interested 'cause I'm using a2dp's dsp/arm decoupling stuff13:32
qwerty12wiza, yeah13:33
Italodanceut's 15 mb wow should be good :(13:33
Italodance:)13:33
lardmanwiza: it might have overwritten bluez-utils13:34
KhertanUnable to forward this request at this time.  .... rah ... could you come with some guy from the isp that run maemo.org at the summit ? we can so made a real deathmatch ....13:34
wizalardman: aah, that too, haven't tested a2dp after that upgrade, any updates coming to that or does the old version/kernel work?13:35
lardmanwiza: not much point in using the kernel atm as videos don't want to play with it13:35
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wizalardman: not using internet tablet for watching video13:35
lardmanwiza: I'm looking at doing DMA/some other way of getting it to work with video output too13:35
wizalardman: gps, email, web and music is 'nuff for me13:36
lardmanwiza: in which case you still don't need the kernel, that just allowed you to push the ARM to full speed while using the DSP13:36
wizaok13:36
lardmanfor you, it's pretty much done13:36
lardmanfor people who want to be able to use it to redirect audio while watching video with mplayer, I need to work out why the mplayer frame rate drops to ~1fps13:37
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wizalardman: there was some clitches in the sound, might be that canola was using way too much cpu... but that wasn't really annoying, rode my bike like 300km and it happened maybe 30 times13:37
lardmanwiza: ah yeah, qwerty12 mentioned some glitches too, I've not got round to look at that; I will do though13:37
wizasweet13:38
lardmanWere you playing mp3s?13:38
wizayep13:38
wizanot that I'm needing that much now, weather is gettin' even more shittier than usual13:38
lardmanIt would be useful if you or qwerty12 could chop out the chunks which are causing glitches, or at least tell me the time in the song so I can do so13:38
qwerty12lardman, that song I sent you is glitched all the way through :)13:39
lardmanotherwise I need to convert the entire tracks to pcm, send it though and do a diff13:39
lardmanqwerty12: ok13:39
qwerty12if you wish, just cut some seconds from the start13:39
lardmanqwerty12: isn't that the way it's supposed to sound? ;)13:39
qwerty12lardman, nope as the default bluez a2dp stuff plays it fine ;P13:39
lardman:p13:40
timelessum, when is maemo.org planning on working?13:40
lardmanqwerty12: I'll take a look this evening, am feeling better (have had a stinking cold & couldn't be bothered to program()13:40
qwerty12lardman, great, thank you. I think I'm feeling the start of a cold here (runny nose) :D13:41
qwerty12Or it could be a result of eating these "chilli" crisps :/13:41
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qwerty12johnx, ping13:46
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lardmanqwerty12: chilli is about the only thing I can taste atm13:48
qwerty12lardman, heh :/. have some chicken soup :P13:49
lardmanSo, are hw interrupts assignable, or do they correspond to a given bit of hardware?13:49
lardmanqwerty12: mm, sounds nice; coffee to keep me awake though atm13:49
qwerty12lardman, hehe. I *hate* chicken soup. Come think of it, you won't like my judgement as I don't drink coffee or tea either :P13:50
lardmanqwerty12: :)13:50
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lardmanah, don't worry about the hwi question, I read the code wrongly13:52
pupniksomehow burning cpu for a2dp grosses me out, when the function can be replaced by three wire13:52
pupnikss13:52
lardman3 wires? how?13:52
pupnikcable, headphones13:55
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lardmanpupnik: oh, I see, not so wireless though then ;)13:55
pupnikyes13:56
pupniknot to disparage your work or anything13:56
lardmanno, that's ok :)13:57
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mikkov_i want this https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2423 for MicroB14:12
AnunakinI think the better way is try to use firefox...14:13
aquatixthat's interesting14:14
mikkov_point is that i don't want firefox ;)14:14
aquatixcan't you just wget -r wikipedia? ;)14:14
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mikkov_sure after i get my petabyte sd card ;)14:15
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aquatixor the mysql db! :)14:16
lardmantalking about DBs, I didn't realise that mapper (i.e. onion's fork) didn't render using OSM data, silly me14:17
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Anunakinmikkov_: But microb not have a interface (bars and status bars) like firefox... then you need remake this addon...14:26
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XTLI wonder how much space wiktionary bodies in dense format (wiki text?) would take14:31
Shiggidya current snapshot of wikipedia in bzip'd SQL form is like 2.6gb14:32
XTLThat's not too huge. Rest of wikimedia is out of that?14:32
aquatixthat's likely only the text of english articles14:34
aquatixquite compact though14:34
XTLLocales out, too, yes.14:34
terboits about 4gb bziped, and 200gb with images14:36
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Shiggidybah images.14:43
Shiggidybut it is SLOOOWWW on an IT14:43
ShiggidySQL + IT == not fun14:43
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XTL\forall x : SQL + x == not fun14:44
Shiggidyhaha14:44
XTLExcepting the axe as usual, perhaps14:44
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BinkyHi hi hi14:48
Binkybef0rd, why you always have your befr0d clon? lol14:49
lcukcrashanddie, ping14:49
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BinkyWhat is mounted on /dev/mtdblock4?14:52
BinkyWell, is not mounted, is... Meh14:52
aquatixXTL: well, i don't think that xml version of wikipedia will be faster :)14:54
crashanddielcuk, pong14:54
lcukmy spidey sense was tingling, did you solve your problem14:54
crashanddiedepends, which one ?14:55
crashanddiebrb, gotta grab some coffee14:55
Khertanhttp://users.softlab.ece.ntua.gr/~ttsiod/buildWikipediaOffline.html14:56
lirimaemo sdk vmware appliance already contains the cross compilation tool-chain doesn't it?14:56
lcukas a faster alternative to xml wikipedia, i have software which will  produce tiff images from the text, then ocr it back in14:57
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lcukliri, yes, but i dont know if its been updated for diablo14:58
Khertanlcuk > lol ... the worst solution ...15:00
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Khertanvmware is setted for chinook ... but to make diablo compatible application just change repository and apt-get dist-upgrade15:00
crashanddies//         /15:01
crashanddies/\//\/\//15:01
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Khertan?15:03
Khertanoh ... there is a python-qt wikipedia reader ...15:04
lcukKhertan, when you move to qt you will find theres pretty much everything15:05
Shiggidyso i heard there were 2 versions of rdesktop? anyone link to both?15:05
Khertanlcuk > qt sucks ...15:05
Khertan:)15:05
lirilcuk: yep, I see it now15:06
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Khertanthe interest of a qt reader ... is to clean all this nasty qt thing ...15:06
crashanddieKhertan, lcuk sucks more than qt ? Is that what you said ?15:06
Khertanto make a great gtk reader :)15:06
Khertancrashanddie > lol15:06
Khertan'>' is added by this stupid windows irc client i use.15:07
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aquatixKhertan: config it!15:07
aquatix;)15:07
Khertanaquatix > yep ... format c:15:08
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XTLMake it so.15:08
aquatixKhertan: no, cfdisk, format /15:08
lcukKhertan, according to netcraft gtk is dying.  qt is rising15:08
aquatixlcuk: according to my crystal ball, microsoft is going to use kde as gui in windows 715:09
Khertannetcraft ...15:09
Khertanwho is it ?15:09
crashanddieIt's the online nickname of The Doctor15:09
aquatixnetcraft is an internet statistics site15:09
aquatixcrashanddie: lol15:09
XTLMmm.. internet statistics15:10
aquatixcrashanddie: i've seen him! i've seen him!15:10
aquatixhe was on the tellie15:10
crashanddieaquatix, which one ?15:10
crashanddieah, ok15:10
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crashanddieeveryone saw the doctor the telly15:10
aquatixcrashanddie: i saw various iterations15:10
crashanddieor has seen15:10
aquatix;)15:10
* aquatix has a doctor captured on dvd15:11
crashanddieanyone know if there's a bug about the freely moving desktop applets in OS2008 ? (as opposed to the locked desktop applets in OS2007)15:12
crashanddieand if so, which bug # it is15:12
Khertan80833http://www.maemo.orgJune 200015:13
Khertanfrom netcraft ... and you believe them ...15:13
Khertanarf15:13
timelessdoes sjgadsby irc?15:14
Khertanfklsdjf lfjsdlfkj sdlfj ?15:14
timelessnot-my-fault15:14
mikkov_offline wikipedia on nit would be pretty cool15:14
crashanddiethere already is, isn't there ,15:14
mikkov_actually there is, i've used it15:15
XTLAlthough the point of the nit is kind of to have things online in reach15:15
mikkov_i used some dict viewer15:15
XTLIs there a dict to wp gateway?15:15
* aquatix solders the wifi chip off his NIT's motherboard15:16
Khertani see that in 2005 there is something interesting in the maemo roadmap : "UI development tool e.g Gazpacho with Hildon widget support"15:16
Khertanno news ?15:16
mikkov_there is dict files made from wikipedia dumps15:16
crashanddieaquatix, wouldn't be soldering, technically15:16
XTLAh15:16
aquatixit would involve a soldering iron and melting15:16
* aquatix doesn't see the problem ;)15:16
pupnik_anybody interested in a fun thing to port?  http://siebn.de/index.php?page=burningsand/game15:17
aquatixi'd likely ruin the thing and the table i'm working on, but that's because my soldering skills are rather lousy15:17
crashanddiewell, see, soldering implies the use of heat and melted metal to attach multiple pieces together15:17
aquatixcrashanddie: i'd reverse the process15:17
aquatixantisoldering then15:17
aquatixfair enough15:17
XTL"desoldering"15:17
aquatixunsoldering15:18
XTL(which mostly describes removing solder)15:18
aquatixsounds like unraveling15:18
crashanddiepupnik_, that's not a fun part15:18
XTLun might give images of just breaking the joint15:18
crashanddiepupnik_, I don't know about you, but porting wine to an NIT looks like a major PITA15:18
aquatixcrashanddie: in my case, it would still result in multiple pieces attached together15:18
aquatixlike, motherboard fused with casing and such15:19
XTLRunning arm binaries with a win api?15:19
* aquatix should learn to solder correctly15:19
pupnik_crashanddie: source is available, SDL display backend15:19
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pupnik_it's surprisingly fast - curious about the data structures15:20
* aquatix loves how the screenshots are exactly the same for win and lin15:20
crashanddieaquatix, it's not hard, the main thing to remember is "don't use too much solder, in fact, use very little"15:20
XTLAlways tin your bit and all the leads you'll solder15:20
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XTL.. sparingly, of course.15:20
aquatixcrashanddie: and don't sniff too much of the magic smoke15:20
XTLMagic smoke improves when you hit a drop of cyanoacrylate with the soldering tip15:21
aquatixooh15:21
aquatixso that'd make me sniff both magic smoke and glue?15:21
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* aquatix choose the wrong profession when he went into software15:22
* XTL is in the process of remedying that15:22
aquatixXTL: but was that serious, or...15:22
* aquatix has heard weirder remedies15:22
crashanddieI've soldered waayy too much :P15:23
* aquatix doesn't even own an iron15:23
aquatixi've soldering tin though15:23
XTLI'm trying to get to EE.15:23
XTLI always wanted to, but kind of got sucked in to being a programmer and sysadmin15:23
Veggenaquatix: I do, but I'm clumsy with hardware, so I hardly use it ;)15:23
Veggenhardware just sucks.15:23
aquatixVeggen: :)15:23
aquatixindeed15:24
XTLJust bought a new iron/station15:24
XTLahs, ass15:24
aquatixit needs to work15:24
aquatixsoftware is more my thing15:24
XTLHardware can be tortured.15:24
* aquatix uses software for that15:24
XTLaquatix: But you'll know the software enjoys it15:25
aquatixuh-huh15:25
aquatixexcept when it starts panicking15:25
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XTLI wonder if electronics has the delicious cycle, too.15:29
XTL"I have some leftover chips, I should get some pcb and make circuits"15:29
XTL"I have some leftover pcb, I should get some chips and make circuits"15:30
aquatix:)15:30
aquatix"I have some leftover circuits, I should build me a robot army"15:30
XTL(I always just have spare chips, but I'm a packrat)15:30
crashanddieaquatix, I have 4 different soldering irons, and about 2kg of solder :P15:31
XTLI should get some microcontrollers. Still haven't got around to it.15:31
crashanddieXTL, where do you live ?15:31
XTLcrashanddie: oulu.fi15:31
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crashanddieouch, ok15:32
XTLIndeed :915:32
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crashanddieNha, cuz I have a bunch of Atmel AtMega microcontrollers here15:37
crashanddieXTL, and if you'd been anywhere near, could've sent you a bunch :P15:37
mshhm. there's nothing in /proc or /sys to look at power draw (mA/mW) for the n810 is there?)15:38
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mshor in the hardware (accessible by software) any way for that matter15:41
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XTLcrashanddie: Nice. I'm not anywhere near most anything, though.15:43
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lcukxtl, if you are brave you could try microwave soldering ;)15:53
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Hrw|n810hi15:55
Hrw|n810omweather does not update here15:55
Hrw|n810someone got it too?15:55
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crashanddiesorry, quit using omweather ages ago15:56
crashanddieHrw|n810, IIRC, omweather simply uses Yahoo! weather15:56
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lcukHrw|n810, dunno perhaps the webscraping has failed15:56
lcukor the weather has stopped15:56
lcukreboot the world and try again15:57
crashanddieHrw|n810, check if you have access to weather.com15:57
Hrw|n810ok15:57
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lcuk_workbbiab15:58
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aquatixworks here15:59
crashanddiehere too15:59
crashanddiebut he's gone15:59
aquatixmeh, telepathy gabble or something was taking 200% cpu16:00
lcuk_worklarge tornado took him away?16:00
aquatixnow my battery is drained16:00
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Cptnodegardforl @ jeppe16:07
Cptnodegard*rofl16:07
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Khertanhum... maemo.org still down ...17:06
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LinuxCodeits not down17:08
LinuxCodecheck your shit17:08
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KhertanLinuxCode > main page is ok ... but look at the thing behind17:11
Khertan:)17:11
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LinuxCodebehind where ?17:12
Khertanhttp://maemo.org/downloads/17:12
KhertanThe following error was encountered:17:12
Khertan    * Connection to 127.0.0.1 Failed17:12
KhertanThe system returned:17:12
Khertan    (111) Connection refused17:12
XTLw.m.o also throws a real error now17:12
Khertanof course it depends on where you connect17:12
Khertanas there is many caching system17:12
Khertansometimes real error ... sometimes crap17:12
liriis it possible to play midi files on the n8x0?17:14
XTLI'm guessing there's no (exposed) hw synth, but you could run (port?) timidity and go through that17:14
XTLicbw. Having a hw synth would be funny.17:14
liriI'm wondering cause that would open up a whole new karaoke joke box window :)17:14
lirithere's pykaraoke17:15
lbtFWIW, I'm getting intermittent errors on maemo.org too: can't login, some pages are blank, others are fine17:15
XTLThey saw that the move was tomorrow, so they're hauling it back.17:15
liripykaraoke I think depends on libsdl though isn't such good news I guess17:16
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Khertanlibsdl ...17:18
Khertanis it available, isn't it ?17:18
XTLI imagine it would be17:18
XTLYes, 1.217:19
Khertanthere is many users complaining on itt about ssu17:19
XTLIn the base system even, isn't it?17:19
Khertanhuhu17:19
XTLOne thing I hate is not having everything in apt's reach17:20
XTLand in public17:20
XTLI guess they want to keep some of it hidden away17:20
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KhertanXTL > yes but make all thing visible , and you ll see more people complaining ...17:23
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Khertanouch ... some user complaining about ssu update seems to have also sdk 4.1 repository ...17:37
Khertanis there a gtk designer god here ? :)17:38
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brontideKhertan: I think you're assuming that GTK can look good17:42
AnunakinAny knows if are a method to use socks5 under maemo? I think create a proxy and use it over a ssh tunnel (socks5) ...?17:44
Anunakinkkkk GTK <> Look good!!! :P17:44
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crashanddieAnunakin, could you rephrase that? Didn't quite catch that17:49
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Khertanbrontide > :)17:50
crashanddieKhertan, get rid of the " > "17:50
crashanddieKhertan, it's annoying17:50
Khertan:)17:50
Khertanyep ... 2s ... i ll get a real irc client17:50
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Khertanyep ... a real irc client17:57
Khertanon windows ...17:57
aquatixwhich one?17:57
Khertanirssi17:57
Khertan:)17:57
aquatixah :)17:57
aquatixthe only real irc client ;)17:57
Khertansome of linux user say that emacs is the only real irc client :)17:58
Khertan+s17:58
aquatixemacs is a nice OS indeed17:58
aquatixhas a nice irc and email client too i heard17:58
aquatixtoo bad it's missing a decent editor ;)17:59
* aquatix runs17:59
brontideKhertan: I've avoided the OS known as emacs17:59
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Khertanmaybe one day i should try it18:01
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Khertancrashanddie: you see ? no more '>'18:01
Khertan:)18:01
crashanddieaaah :) Nice18:01
XTLPositive18:01
crashanddienow make it a ",", and I'm really happy18:01
Khertanno no no ... irssi use ':' ...18:01
aquatixcrashanddie: why?18:01
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Khertanso it should be ':'18:01
aquatix, is weird18:01
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aquatixindeed18:01
XTL: is traditional18:01
crashanddieno it's not18:01
aquatixcrashanddie: then you're weird ;)18:02
Khertanit s the default irssi config18:02
crashanddieHell yes I am18:02
crashanddieKhertan, way better, anyway18:02
Khertanso it s the standard ...18:02
Khertan:)18:02
XTLand , is used in more in random sentences18:02
crashanddieI'll tell you this18:02
Khertan:)18:02
aquatixi think `:' is better for addressing someone than randomly putting a pause character in a sentence18:03
XTL< crashanddie> Khertan, way better, anyway18:03
crashanddie':' indicates a direction, a specification, ',' indicates an enunciation18:03
XTLWas that to Khertan, Kertan and way better or Khertan, way better and anyway?18:03
aquatixcrashanddie: exactly, i direct you18:03
aquatix+it to18:03
crashanddiein other words, I'm not only talking to some person, I'm talking to that person, and anyone who wants to join in18:03
crashanddieXTL, now you're just shagging mosquitoes18:04
Khertanhum ...18:04
XTLcrashanddie: illustrating my earlier point18:04
XTLTo a machine, that would be a killer problem. Generally, they don't care though.18:04
crashanddienooo you're not, you're just abusing your point of view to try and put me at wrong18:04
XTLIt's a matter of manners.18:04
* Khertan use is notepad and writing in the funny expression section : 'you re just shagging mosquitoes'18:04
crashanddieit doesn't change a lot18:04
Khertan;)18:04
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Khertan s/writing/ write in it18:05
XTLYou know, this is the first channel I've seen any disagreement on this.18:05
lcuk_workcrashanddie, : you are wrong :P18:05
crashanddiehaha18:05
XTLAnd there's generally irc-illiterate sentiment here18:05
XTLWhat's it been.. 13 years?18:05
ywwgI'm adding an application to the maemo website, and it says to save the entry before uploading a screenshot.  I've saved the entry, now how do I edit it to add the screenshot?18:05
crashanddieXTL, what did you just say ?18:05
X-Fadeywwg: Use the floating bar.18:06
crashanddie"(XTL) You know, this is the first..."18:06
crashanddiethat's my point18:06
crashanddieXTL, see what I meant now ?18:06
Khertanywwg: before use the floating windows18:06
X-Fadeywwg: 'Page' -> Edit.18:06
lcuk_workso many clients, so many formats, no1 is wrong  (except for crashanddie,)18:06
XTLcrashanddie: Yes. In 13 years or so, every other channel has taken it for granted that you use colon.18:06
Khertanhum ... why not using ([{[{[Khertan]}]})>:_: ?18:07
lcuk_workxtl, but xchat by default uses "[name], "18:07
XTLAnd this is the only one where someone uses another char or another word for 'topic'18:07
Khertanit ll be clear :18:07
Khertan:)18:07
XTLlcuk_work: I'm sure it does.18:07
crashanddieXTL, so because they thought the earth was flat for a bazillion years, they were right ? Fundamental things should never be challenged ? :D18:07
ywwgaha.  I didn't realize those were menus18:07
Khertancrashanddie: yep they were right ... ask to the inquisition ... :)18:07
XTL< XTL> You know, this is...18:07
crashanddiehahaha :D18:07
lcuk_workxtl, therefore its the right way.  or are you gonna argue that x-chat doesn't rule the interwebs? :P18:08
XTLI wasn't using a fallacy, I was diverging18:08
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Khertanhey ... this is really not important ...18:08
lcuk_workno, its vitally important18:08
XTLlcuk_work: It probably does. Windows and IE too18:08
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ywwggah, is the site incredibly slow for anyone else?18:08
crashanddieywwg, everyone else18:08
Khertanok ... don't move i ll configure irssi :)18:08
aquatixirssi is right18:08
ywwgcrashanddie: thought so18:09
lcuk_workdont the rfcs define this?18:09
crashanddienope18:09
XTLAt least the bitchx is dead.18:09
XTLProtocol doesn't take part in content18:09
XTL¥< XTL> It's a matter of manners.18:10
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* aquatix renicks to ..::aquat1x::..18:10
Khertanyeark ... it s seems not configurable ...18:10
lcuk_workactually, it sortof does, the inner protocol uses [nick] : [msg]18:10
kpelis there a reason for the libbz2-1.0 and libdb4.2 packages to be kept back in diablo?18:10
kpelapt-get cannot upgrade them18:11
qwerty12aquatix, yep, it's showing :P18:11
kpel(neither the application manager)18:11
XTLMmm.. resonance :)18:11
qwerty12~lart the freenet irc server. I wanted to go in #dbox2 :(18:11
* infobot burns the freenet irc server. I wanted to go in #dbox2 :( to a crisp with a laser18:11
Khertan{('[lcuk_work]')}:> now i m sure something is good :)18:11
aquatixqwerty12: talking about netiquette ;)18:11
aquatixKhertan++18:11
Khertan:)18:11
aquatixyou forgot colouring18:12
KhertanOh : ... colouring !18:12
crashanddiecolors are disabled here18:12
kpelno colouring, please, please no18:12
* aquatix waits till someone gets banned18:12
Khertani forgot that !18:12
Khertanyep ...18:12
aquatixcrashanddie: thankfully18:12
crashanddieaquatix, indeed18:12
Khertanthx to remind me this18:12
crashanddietest18:12
crashanddiebut phat is still possible18:12
kpelfailed18:12
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X-Fadehttp://gizmodo.com/5035456/blue-screen-of-death-strikes-birds-nest-during-opening-ceremonies-torch-lighting Quality software ;)18:13
aquatixX-Fade: yeah, classic18:13
XTL^C-colours. That was the time mirc ruled the unwashed seas..18:13
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aquatixabout time mirc dies18:13
mikkov_X-Fade: is the autobuilder borked?18:13
qwerty12mirc sukzorz18:13
Khertanhaha18:13
X-Fademikkov_: I think it has something to do with the move of the servers.18:13
XTLxchat is a minor nuisance compared to that18:14
aquatixno more questions on how to get online on that mirc chat network18:14
mikkov_X-Fade: ok18:14
X-Fademikkov_: The builder itself seems to be broken/gone/messed up.18:14
XTLI'm sorry, but I have to say this again:18:14
XTLAt least the bitchx is dead.18:14
XTL:)18:14
mikkov_X-Fade: lots of UNKNOWNs ;)18:15
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X-Fademikkov_: Yeah, I guess the autobuilder doesn't know what hit him ;)18:15
X-Fademikkov_: -ESERVERMOVEDONEDAYEARLYSORRY18:15
aquatixkthxbye18:16
aquatixreminds me of my isp's system transition; also a day early18:16
X-FadeWell, it messed up my day :(18:17
aquatixthanks guys, now i can't edit that document on my home server from work anymore18:17
Khertantest18:17
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aquatixKhertan: pong18:18
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Khertani ll be back18:20
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dmesanyone has an example of HildonWizardDialog ?18:27
qwerty12Can't think of any examples but it's used in Maemo FTP and Modest18:29
dmesqwerty12: ok.. thanks.. i'll check the source18:33
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dmzhowdy y'all, anyone using an N810 here w/either a bluetooth or plugin headset & built in SIP-voip client?18:35
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bherviergnieee18:44
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Khertanis there a irssi client for maemo ?18:45
Khertan... uhm bye ...18:47
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AStormKhertan: you can build your own irssi too :>18:52
AStormstill, XChat is much more suited for the touchscreen18:52
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konttoriAnything interesting going on?19:06
VeggenHm. My kernel is dated june 11th. Is that the most recent? (just did an apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade)19:07
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qwerty12Veggen: Jul 16 is the most recent19:12
pH5what is up with the diablo extras autobuilder? everything I throw at it just returns a "[diablo]: ... UNKNOWN" e-mail.19:13
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qwerty12Is xmkmf in any diablo sdk repository?19:15
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Veggenqwerty: hmm. Then I haven't upgraded all...19:16
pH5qwerty12: isn't that provided by xutils-dev?19:17
Veggenqwerty: On uname -a?19:17
qwerty12pH5: Yep, thanks. Just compiled it now.19:17
Veggenon ls -l, it's dated jul 16.19:17
qwerty12Veggen: uname -a and /proc/version.19:17
qwerty12Veggen: run flash-and-reboot19:17
Veggenah, thanks.19:18
remexw319:19
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GeneralAntillesAnybody gonna make a 30-2 announcement for maemo.org?19:21
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I'm not sure if that makes sense. Especially if these updates are weekly orso.19:21
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konttoriGood question. I'm surprised that there has been no official one19:22
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, weekly?19:22
GeneralAntillesYou're kidding, right? :P19:22
GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356019:22
GeneralAntillesThat guy needs to either learn how to file useful bugs or stop filing them.19:22
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Or whatever ;)19:22
GeneralAntillesI don't think he's filed a useful bug in his life.19:22
Veggenhmm. think browser *is* much faster, yes.19:23
GeneralAntillesI'm inclined to just INVALID most of them since they just end up sitting because nobody can actually figure them out.19:23
X-Fadekonttori: I can give you rights to post announcements?19:23
konttoriIt's not my position to announce these things. Quim is on vacation and while he's away, I don't know who should be announcing such things.19:24
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X-Fadekonttori: Well, I guess someone from your team should?19:25
Luriaso, diablo's iptables... not so great19:25
konttoriI'll talk tomorrow to people who should be announcing it. It may also be intentional that no so much noise is made of the update.19:26
konttoriIt was really made to fix the email power drain issue19:26
X-FadeAnd everybody will get a notification automatically.19:26
Luriato be fair, DEF CON was quite a bit of a test.19:27
GeneralAntillesIf Nokia is ever going to provide real changelogs, announcements should really be made on maemo.org.19:27
GeneralAntillesBesides, it's a COMMUNITY site, we may just take it into our own hands and relieve Nokia of the burden. ;)19:28
qwerty12Using fbvnc on a tablet is a nice way to make you shut it down :>19:28
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lardman7pm UTC?19:31
lardmanSee you chaps later on19:31
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brontideSSU includes a new build of libssl so things like x11vnc won't install without an override19:31
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brontideand why doesn't maemo have libssl.so link to the most recent version rather linking directly to bare versions19:33
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dnearyhi all19:34
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pupnikwas ITOS affected by the debian libSSL low-entropy bug?19:34
GeneralAntillespupnik, no.19:34
pupnik^^ knows everything19:34
GeneralAntillesOur stuff was (sadly?) way older than it.19:34
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pupnikhahaha19:34
dnearyIs there any interest in the community council any more?19:34
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GeneralAntillesdneary, from me there is. ;)19:35
dnearyOr rather, is there anyone with sufficient interest in the community council to organise it? :)19:35
GeneralAntillesbrontide, you mean newer than 0.9.8?19:35
GeneralAntillesThat'd be Jaffa19:35
GeneralAntillesThe issue he's worried about is a CoI since he's planning to run.19:35
dnearyI have to go in a minute, but if people think it's worthwhile, I'd like to take it on as a task for the next sprint (and since I'm taking 2 weeks holidays, it'll have to be rolling by Friday)19:35
brontideMust have been from the chinook libs then since I have 0.9.7 ( needed for x11vnc to install )19:36
dnearyJaffa?19:36
pupnikdneary: ok thanks for the heads-up19:36
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dnearyI'll help you avoid CoI19:36
GeneralAntillesdneary, gonna be here for the Sprint?19:36
dnearypupnik: NP19:36
dnearyI'm gonna be here for the IRC meeting layer, and for the next 3 days19:36
brontideeither way there should be a libssl.so.X -> libssl.so.0.9.8 so that minor revisions don't bork apps19:36
dnearyAnd I've been pretty down in the dumps the last couple of days - pre-holiday blues19:36
GeneralAntilless/Sprint/Sprint review/19:36
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: dneary, gonna be here for the Sprint review?19:36
GeneralAntillesAnyway, Jaffa'll likely be here then.19:37
dnearyGA: Yes19:37
dnearys/GA/GeneralAntilles/19:37
infobotdneary meant: GeneralAntilles: Yes19:37
GeneralAntillesbrontide, or, perhaps, better dependencies specification by packagers?19:37
brontideWon't matter since libssl does not have synlinks19:38
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brontideso until libssl is fixed, apps will need to be linked against one of them and that will break some chinook<->diablo compatibility needlessly19:39
tuukkahi don't see such symlinks on debian either19:40
GeneralAntilles^19:41
GeneralAntillesSymlinking system libs like that is usually a bad plan.19:41
GeneralAntillesThat's really a packager issue.19:41
brontideYou mean all the other symlinked system libs are a bad idea19:42
GeneralAntillesmaemo.org's about as unstable as it can be. . . .19:42
brontideas far as I can tell libssl is the only system lib ( or one of the only ) that does not contain symlinks19:42
brontideat least under debian/maemo... works fine under RHEL19:43
dnearyGone - be back in a couple of hours19:43
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tuukkahbrontide, maybe this is to the point: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/155784/comments/1719:46
brontidewell then they are doing it wrong since RHEL got it right19:48
brontideWouldn't be the first libssl mistake debian made19:49
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Khertan_n810i'm back19:50
t_s_ough, karel's less then usefull trolling in the ssu update thread is starting to get to me :(19:51
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, what the hell is going on with maemo.org?19:51
GeneralAntillesAre we still mid-move?19:51
Khertan_n810haha19:51
Khertan_n810this is really funny to read some complain on itt19:52
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brontidehmm, this is a first, now browserd is stuck comsuming 100% of the CPU19:54
t_s_obah, i need to cut back on the kaffeine while reading itt...19:55
GeneralAntillest_s_o, just cut back on the itT. ;)19:56
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tuukkahi was also confused by the ssu. does it make sense that "update all" complained about each package, "update" on the "operating system upgrade" worked...19:56
qwerty12f*** me, £210 for a dbox2, I don't feel like getting conned today :(19:57
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t_s_odbox2?19:59
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florianqwerty12: oh, that's quite a lot20:01
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qwerty12t_s_o, Cable boxes. Made by Nokia, not in production anymore. I'm interested in running linux on one. Though the DM7025 is tempting to me though as well.20:01
t_s_oah20:02
qwerty12florian, yeah :(. I'd grab one of ebay but they are already running neutrino on them. Not sure if I'd be able to flash it easily.20:02
GeneralAntillest_s_o, goddamn is that thread full of misinformation.20:03
GeneralAntillestuukkah, please don't leave Red Pill mode on.20:03
GeneralAntillesFucking Red Pill20:03
GeneralAntillesI'm going to have to begin punishing people who leave it on.20:03
t_s_oheh, murphy is having a field day ;)20:04
tuukkahi'd rather use apt-get, but i suppose i'd get punished either way =)20:04
qwerty12Karel Jansens would rather get fucked by a rhino then reflash the N800. Sounds odd.20:05
florianqwerty12: you need the original os?20:05
qwerty12florian, I've read you need the UCodes out of the original Betanova firmware :/20:06
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t_s_oqwerty12: its karel, nough said...20:06
qwerty12t_s_o, lol, yeah20:07
t_s_ohe seems to be channeling ballmer lately tho...20:07
GeneralAntilleslol20:08
GeneralAntillessjgadsby looks shirtless in his profile picture.20:08
florianqwerty12: well, it might be not leagl but I guess google will find them :-)20:08
qwerty12florian, so true, thanks. legality isn't a problem to me, I plan on following a friend who gets new keys every month on his eurovox :D20:10
florianhehe20:10
Khertan_n810does u found that modest work better with gmail after the ssu ?20:10
Khertan_n810metalayer is still here20:11
Khertan_n810:)20:11
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Khertan_n810it work much better after a killall modest :)20:13
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lcuk_workdoes anyone know which repo i can install "the ark" from?20:14
GeneralAntillest_s_o, Application manager shits all over itself and dies when mmc2 is corrupted and read-only.20:14
qwerty12I wish psdoom didn't use i386 asm :). It literally kills processors :)20:14
* lcuk_work is drowning20:14
t_s_ook, noted, i invalidated by request anyways20:14
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GeneralAntillesIt caches the .deb files to mmc220:14
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure about any temporary storage during the .deb unpacking and install20:15
Khertan_n810hum ... extras builder still amnesiac20:15
GeneralAntilleswhich is what clean might clean out.20:15
qwerty12lcuk, "the ark"?20:15
t_s_oah20:15
lcukyer, big boat thing where i can survive a flood20:15
qwerty12lol20:15
GeneralAntillesYou have to build that from source20:16
lcuk:D20:16
GeneralAntilles"source" being a big stack of wood. ;)20:16
lcukdownloaded from god on a hillside?20:16
t_s_oiu guess i should have tried to get the app manager to do the update rather then gone for -unlocked, but for me to remove the offending lib i had to clear out things like python (i guess i got what was coming for me for mixing diablo and chinook)...20:16
lcukapt-get install ark-instructions20:17
lcukError: Depends upon Christianity faith.20:17
t_s_ohmm, new mauku, interesting20:17
MangoFusionapt-get install faith20:17
GAN800-unlocked did fine here20:17
GAN800It'll be largely dependent on which repositories you have.20:17
qwerty12apt-get install pistol20:18
qwerty12Error: A pistol is too shit for you qwerty12, have an AK-47 instead20:18
GAN800Ha20:18
GAN800qwerty12, have you ever even seen a firearm? :20:18
GAN800P20:18
lcukmaemo.org profiles are a bit ummm bob.   you get points for things like blogs or groups without actually supplying links to them20:18
Khertan_n810lol20:19
qwerty12GAN800, Well, does a Pump Pellet gun count :P20:19
* GAN800 hands lcuk a stick to go poke bergie with.20:19
GAN800qwerty, no.20:19
qwerty12damn20:19
lcukno, i cant go to the admins - if i do i have to admit the shame at digging myself down20:19
rm_youtime to fly20:19
rm_youBBL20:19
rm_youmuch later :P20:19
lcukyou settin off already?20:19
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* qwerty12 shoots rm_you while he is mid air20:20
GAN800lcuk, lie and tell them it was qwerty12. ;)20:20
qwerty12lol20:20
lcukthey will know its me20:20
lcuki shouldnt be able to mark myself down :(20:20
lcuk<<< FIAL20:20
GAN800They enabled it just for you.20:20
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Khertan_n810... as extras builderiks still amnesiac ... i ll watch a zode of stargate ... bye20:22
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qwerty12http://psdoom.sourceforge.net/images/ss3.gif <-- My new favourite linux process manager20:23
brontidewiki.maemo.org is still 2 out of 3, only 30% of my loads are crapping out20:23
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* GeneralAntilles pokes X-Fade again.20:23
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GeneralAntillesand _marcell_ ran away. . . .20:24
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GAN800New approach:20:41
GAN800X-Fade, is there anything in particular you want help with for the meeting? :P20:41
* Jaffa sees his name in scrollback whilst waiting for the app to rebuild20:43
GAN800Community council20:43
JaffaAh yeah20:43
GAN800dneary may or may not have volunteered to help push it.20:44
JaffaWhat we'll need is the voting system first and foremost; and as I've no idea of the underlying structure of *.maemo.org, I've *no* idea how much work that is.20:44
GAN800Apparently, from the lists, not a huge amount20:45
GAN800bergie and/or ferenc volunteered to work on that.20:45
X-FadeGAN800: Stop poking me!!! :)20:46
GAN800Hey, this one has a treat attached! :D20:47
konttoriI'm getting permission denied when trying to upload to extras diablo20:48
X-FadeHeh.20:48
konttoriDo I need to get special access to do so?20:48
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konttoriAs in, I've previously been able to upload to chinook with no issue20:49
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X-Fadekonttori: No, that is intended behaviour.20:49
konttoriSo. What do I need to do?20:50
X-Fadekonttori: Ever since the diablo release, it has been that way.20:50
X-Fadekonttori: Get your application into extras-devel first.20:50
konttori?? really? Why?20:50
konttoriAh - into diablo extras devel I assume20:50
X-FadeAnd promote it via the promoter: https://garage.maemo.org/promoter/diablo20:50
GAN800wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras20:50
konttoriSo, I upload to /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-nonfree/diablo or /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-free/diablo20:53
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X-Fadekonttori: Yes, but obviously we don't want too much non-free.20:53
konttorithere was no /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-free/diablo20:56
GeneralAntillesModest is faster and more efficient than Gmail webmail on my 867MHz G4. . . .20:56
konttoriis it just incoming then?20:56
pH5konttori: I've always uploaded to /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/diablo20:57
X-Fadekonttori: You might want to read the documentation GA posted.20:57
* lcuk titters20:57
Anunakinhey using maemo on SD? can I repatch the kernel?20:57
Anunakinhey any using maemo on SD? can I repatch the kernel?20:57
GeneralAntillesAnunakin, what does "repatch" mean?20:58
GeneralAntillesReflash a patched kernel?20:58
RST38hmoo.20:58
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Anunakinyes20:58
konttoriAH. Indeed. Now it's uploading.20:58
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konttorithe non-free is just fine for me. thanks20:59
AnunakinGeneralAntilles: because after update ... this stay loading from flash20:59
X-FadeNot that the package will reach the repo today... but hey ;)20:59
konttoriI did scan through the page GA posted.20:59
konttoriBut I was not able to notice what was the 'free' location. anyway, thanks for your help!20:59
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X-Fadekonttori: That is because we don't allow binary uploads to free. We always require source.21:00
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X-Fadekonttori: And only non-free stuff should go to non-free, otherwise it will be removed.21:01
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konttoriWell, I'm doing python stuff, so source is in there. However, the builder scripts might not work on it.21:01
X-Fadekonttori: Check out py2deb.21:02
GeneralAntillesDid anybody file a bug about the webmaster mailto on maemo.org server-side error pages being "<webmaster>"21:02
GeneralAntilles?21:02
X-FadeKhertan wrote that to package your python script up for the autobuilder.21:02
* GeneralAntilles doesn't seen one.21:03
* GeneralAntilles files.21:03
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I can't remember seeing a bug for that.21:03
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X-Fadezap, pH5: I'm sorry, the ISP messed up and not it seems they have firewalled off the builder ;)21:05
GeneralAntilles"Muhaha, no builder for these losers!"21:07
kpelcan you install unrar without problems? yesterday the apps manager was saying that the file was corrupted.21:08
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andre___anybody else also having problems with viewing wiki pages or is it just me? it needs several tries here to get the page displayed...21:10
X-Fadeandre___: Yes, server overloaded.21:10
andre___ok21:10
GeneralAntilles#356321:10
GeneralAntillesWe now have an extra type of error message to see when using the wiki21:11
GeneralAntillesIt's like christmas.21:11
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I like the 'Crap...' one ;)21:12
SargunMaemo is so cool.21:16
zapX-Fade: cool21:16
SargunI love your developers.21:16
zapyes, maemo is soo cool ;)21:16
zapX-Fade: have you read my mail?21:16
Italodancenews?21:17
Italodancenew games?21:17
X-Fadezap: Let me forward it to marcell, he should be able to look at it.21:17
zapI hope it gets fixed :)21:19
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X-Fadezap: It seems that the Packages.bz2 file wasn't marked as nocache. The others do.21:26
KhertanHi ... again21:26
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Sprint 3 review meeting in #maemo-meeting today @ 19:00 UTC https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint3 | Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | http://mxr.maemo.org"21:26
X-Fadezap: So that will be fixed in the near future.21:26
zapwell I don't know how that cluster tech works :)21:26
GeneralAntillesItalodance, the question to "new games?" is always, "No."21:26
zapI thought it should propagate changes between different hosts, like OCFS2 does21:27
X-Fadezap: There are all kinds of options ;)21:28
X-Fadebrontide: You should have gotten an invitation by now?21:28
brontideyep21:28
X-Fadebrontide: Great ;)21:28
GeneralAntilleslol, how can you claim to "undestand" Red Pill and still try and install the Operating System update. . . .21:28
brontideNow I'm just going to have to figure out how to get this to work under PyPackager21:29
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X-Fadebrontide: Ask Khertan  ;)21:29
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X-FadeLook, I summoned him.21:31
GeneralAntillesHa21:31
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kkrustycan I reflash from diablo back to chinook?21:33
zapKhertan: don't you know some replacement for g_filename_from_uri() in Python? It's a shame, but I see there isn't a direct wrapper for it...21:34
GeneralAntilleskkrusty, sure, but I can't imagine why you would want to.21:34
kkrustyGeneralAntilles: Well I couldnt find pidgin and some other packages for diablo21:35
GeneralAntillesJust grab the Chinook ones, then. . . .21:35
kkrustyGeneralAntilles: then why are they in chinook then?21:36
GeneralAntillesBecause the package maintainers haven't put them through the Diablo autobuilder.21:36
GeneralAntillesIn summary, for good reasons.21:36
GeneralAntillesOh hell21:37
GeneralAntillesI forgot to attach the error message to #356421:37
GeneralAntillesNow I can't get maemo.org to throw one.21:37
brontideKhertan: if I copy over .ssh keys and gpg keys I should be able to use the auto-upload portion of PyPackager, No?21:38
kkrustyGeneralAntilles: Im handing over my N800 to my brother who isnt very linux friendly. I just figured that he could go wrong less with chinook21:39
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GeneralAntillesDiablo is the way to go.21:39
* kkrusty feels he didnt have to tell GeneralAntilles his life story but did anyway21:39
SargunHow long until Maemo gets on other devices?21:39
GeneralAntilleser21:40
GeneralAntillesWell, uh, the Beagle can run Maemo.21:40
thuxhi, in os2008 how i get battery status in command line?21:40
GeneralAntillesthux, nitapps.com21:40
GeneralAntillesandre___, lol too many mid-air collisions on #3564. I'm not typing my comment out again.21:41
GeneralAntillesAnyway, I mostly wanted to see what people think about having a bugzilla link.21:42
GeneralAntillesSince we have one for the documentation pages, it might also work on error pages. . . .21:42
SargunGeneralAntilles, I mean, a phone.21:42
andre___GeneralAntilles, you're quick. but i am too! :-P21:42
andre___yeah, the idea is good21:42
GeneralAntillesSargun, "Nokia does not announce future hardware plans."21:42
GeneralAntillesSargun, either way, hopefully not anytime soon.21:42
Sargunhehe21:43
Sargunhopefully?21:43
GeneralAntillesYes, because cellular BS is bad juju21:43
SargunHow come?21:43
GeneralAntillesHaving to integrate it with Maemo will just negatively impact the whole platform21:43
GeneralAntillesCarrier requirements, government requirements. All sorts of stupid crap that takes time and effort away from making Maemo awesome.21:44
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GeneralAntillesandre___, can we have all of tz's reports marked moreinfo by default yet? :P21:44
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, google is DDoSing the website, then? :D21:45
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: And msn and yahoo and...21:45
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Sarguntoo sad: -(21:45
Sargun:-(21:45
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, it only takes a few more connections.21:45
andre___GeneralAntilles, haha, reminds me of one patch review by Karsten who once wrote "I hereby reject your next patch in advance" Can send you the link if interested :-D21:46
GeneralAntillesHa21:47
GeneralAntillesAwesome.21:47
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andre___well, he was totally right. that contributor did nearly everything wrong in his patch21:48
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BinkyHi21:54
* Binky recieved a cold welcome21:55
X-FadeHi Binky ;)21:56
GeneralAntillesandre___, how's progress on doing away with "nobody@maemo.org"?21:56
BinkyWoo Hoo!21:56
X-Fade4 minute meeting warning...21:56
andre___GeneralAntilles, for some components it's good, for many it's that developers tell me that they don't have time to also watch maemo bugmail. again stuff to discuss with bosses in two weeks, hopefully...21:57
BinkyX-Fade, What?21:57
GeneralAntillesThey need to make time, then.21:57
GeneralAntillesOr delegate somebody to be in charge of their public component.21:58
andre___I know of thoughts to have more people for this21:59
Binkyoh, l Wanted to ask..., ls there any way to run jar files on ITs?22:00
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GeneralAntillesI need a set of all-white clothes for dealing with chlorine. I can never seem to avoid spilling just a little on myself. :\22:00
GeneralAntillesPoke @ everybody. #maemo-meeting22:00
GeneralAntillesJaffa22:00
housetierjaffa22:01
housetierdammit22:01
Binkywtf? GeneralAntilles , is that an IRC Channel?22:01
housetierwrong paste again22:02
GeneralAntillesBinky, yes.22:02
housetiertoday is not a good day for me to be on the internets22:02
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Sprint 3 review meeting in #maemo-meeting is going on NOW! https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint3 | Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | http://mxr.maemo.org"22:03
Binkywhat is it for?22:04
GeneralAntillesSee the URL22:04
GeneralAntillesSprint review meeting for maemo.org22:04
Binkyl don't get it.22:05
GeneralAntillesIt's for maemo.org work.22:05
BinkyOk,thank you.22:05
arachnistis there a known bug about diablo and batteries getting out-of-juice?22:05
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arachnist(on n800)22:06
amrtime to get playing with my 770 again :D22:06
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amrworth flashing it to 07?22:07
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GeneralAntillesI would go whole-hog and install OS2008HE myself.22:07
GeneralAntilles~flashing22:07
infobotflashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware22:07
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amrheh22:07
* GeneralAntilles needs to add an SSU section.22:07
t_s_o:P22:07
Binkyamr, if you boot from mmc, yes22:08
amri don't boot from mmc22:08
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amrnot at the minute, anyway22:08
atka__hello22:08
atka__somebody can help me?22:08
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atka__i want to flash my nokia 770 with os2008HE, but i have a small problem22:11
amrgood timing, i was thinking of doing the same22:11
atka__i download the image, and the flasher-3.022:11
GeneralAntillesI'd also get flash booting going with that.22:11
GeneralAntillesand install the 48MHz kernel22:11
atka__48mhz kernel,22:12
atka__?22:12
GeneralAntillesFor MMC bus speed22:12
lcukmemory card memory speedup22:12
GeneralAntillesbunanson has a guide up somewhere.22:12
atka__oh22:12
atka__i read it22:12
t_s_obah, why did my 770 have to go wsod...22:13
amr:(22:13
atka__but now i want flashing simple my n77022:13
GeneralAntillest_s_o, warranty?22:13
GeneralAntillesatka__, flash away, then.22:13
lcukcos the brightest stars burn quickest22:13
GeneralAntillesWhat's the problem?22:13
t_s_oGeneralAntilles: tried, nokia said no as its a usa model and im in norway22:13
atka__Suitable usb device not found, waiting22:13
atka__i plug the charger22:14
GeneralAntillest_s_o, that's so lame.22:14
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lcukt_s_o, lame excuse really isnt it22:14
t_s_ostupid end of life sale from expansys :(22:14
atka__and this is the problem:22:14
GeneralAntillesYou got a local consumer protection group you could take that up with?22:14
lcuknorway is close enough to take the device directly to finland and camp in the reception of nokia until they replace it.22:14
amrlol22:15
atka__Usb device found at bus 001, device adress 003 (and under it:) Error claiming usb interface: operation not permitted22:15
t_s_oit also happened after the 21 day complaint time that expansys works with, even tho i would expect it to work like norwegian consumer laws given they have a page and office here. but damned if i can get hold of anyone with half a brain...22:15
GeneralAntillesatka__, sudo flasher-3.0 . . . .22:15
atka__hm...22:15
t_s_oso i ended up getting a used N800 and have been happy with that so far. still, that 770 is to date a expensive paperweight...22:15
atka__ok, i will test it22:15
GeneralAntillesatka__, "operation not permitted" pretty much always means you need root. . . .22:16
lcukon the desktop end22:16
atka__^^22:16
atka__oooh yeah22:18
atka__flashing22:18
atka__thank you22:18
atka__and sorry for my lame question :$22:18
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lcukatka__, dont worry, ive been asking sillier questions for the last 8 months :)22:19
GeneralAntilles^ the hilarious windows user. :P22:19
* lcuk is eternally grateful to the members here22:19
amri think i'll give thememaker another go22:20
atka__:)22:20
lcukGeneralAntilles, :) i think im over my hump with most things now.  gaining confidence and kinda seem able to do stuff22:21
amri might just say screw it and buy an n800/n81022:21
GeneralAntillesDo22:21
GeneralAntillesThey're lightyears ahead of the 770.22:21
GeneralAntillesJust ask Hedgecore.22:21
amryeah but i'm not really using my 770 as it is :x22:21
amrmostly for ebooks22:21
amri regret not picking an n800 up when they were dirt cheap around january22:21
GeneralAntillesebay22:22
lcukthen keep it as is - some people need a calculator but get sold a macbook22:22
amryeah i'm looking right now :D22:22
lcuki could really do with another 8x022:23
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amranother?22:23
amrgive me yours pls22:23
atka__hmmm the os2008he sexiest than the os2007he :D22:24
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lcukno, i need a pair of them to test some networking code22:24
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amrah22:25
lcukits not the same pretending my desktop is another 81022:25
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amrhow handy, my tablet only receives data after it has sent some22:30
amrlike on xchat22:30
amrmessages only come in after ive just sent one22:30
GeneralAntillespsm22:30
GeneralAntillesJust let XChat idle. ;)22:30
amri've been trying22:30
amrcurrently sat there with some old messages on it's screen22:31
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amr:/22:33
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amrthat's annoying22:33
GeneralAntillesWell, it only increases the battery life by about 4 days22:33
GeneralAntillesFeel free to turn it off22:33
GeneralAntillesIt's in the connectivity controls somewhere under advanced.22:33
amrwhat, wireless?22:33
amr:p22:33
amroh?22:33
lcuklardman, how do we deal with projects like you suggested where the author is not around22:34
amrwtf i didn't know it actually did that22:34
amrhere i am thinking my router is busted22:34
amror my tablet is22:34
GeneralAntilleswifi power saving mode22:34
lardmanlcuk: no idea, assuming the author can't be contacted, I'm sure X-Fade could make someone new the admin22:34
GeneralAntillesCycles the radio on and off a few times a second.22:34
lardmanlcuk: it's just that I'd not even seen these22:34
amrhmm i don't see it22:34
lcukbut thats a bit mean - i suppose people wont mind22:34
lardmanlcuk: perhaps I need to spend more time browsing Garage to see what's in there :)22:35
lcuki agree - lots of things get started and not completed22:35
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amrGeneralAntilles where abouts is it?22:35
lcukyer, like i said - if you wanna head up a programming posse to try to fix up some projects (maybe away from the general mailing list) i would join in where possible22:36
amrnot seeing a power saving mode option22:36
lcukwe can pool our skills and bring specific projects forward a litttle bit :)22:36
lardmanlcuk: I'm pretty busy atm with what I already have :(22:36
lcuknot the only one22:36
GeneralAntillesamr, somewhere in the per-connection configuration options.22:36
GeneralAntillesThere's a tab for it.22:36
lcukjust keep it open - people will pull together when needed if the cause is worthwhile22:36
amrhmm i'll keep looking then22:36
amrthanks22:36
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lcukwe shall give you a batphone22:37
lardmanbut perhaps a bit of adversiting and a sort of sprint on a project might be good22:37
atka__heh, i start the web browser, and my tablet reboot, nice... :D22:37
GeneralAntillesswap on?22:37
atka__omg, no, thanx22:37
amri see 'other' that talks about transmission power22:37
amrbut not psm22:37
lcukagreed - it was good seeing everyone doing a little bit on the barcode thing :)22:37
amri see i can edit it using gconf though22:37
GeneralAntillesatka__, OS2008HE doesn't work without swap.22:38
lcuklet us know if you find something decent :)22:38
GeneralAntillesamr, OS2007?22:38
amrwhatever is on the nokia 77022:38
amrso uh, 06?22:38
GeneralAntillesOS2005-OS200822:38
GeneralAntillesCould be anything. ;)22:38
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GeneralAntillesUgly blue/red/green/orange theme?22:38
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lardmanlcuk: I might trawl through Garage and look for projects which a) look cool and/or b) are quiescent22:38
atka__i activate the swap, one minute ^^22:38
GeneralAntillesThat configuration was added in OS2007, I believe.22:39
amrah22:39
GeneralAntillesMaybe gconf, maybe not configurable in the old OSes.22:39
amr(with IT2006, it is not configurable).22:39
amrah shag.22:39
GeneralAntillesPut OS2008HE on there22:39
amrlooks like i'm upgrading22:39
GeneralAntillesOS2006 sucks.22:39
amrdo i need to do anything special other than flash it using the tool?22:40
GeneralAntillesNope22:40
GeneralAntilles~flashing22:40
infobotwell, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware22:40
amrcool beans, thanks22:40
GeneralAntillesJust make sure you enable swap22:40
GeneralAntillesand I would look into MMC booting and 48MHz kernel.22:40
amri'll google those too22:40
amrthanks22:40
amrhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2215522:41
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amrheh, that looks like exactly what i need22:41
atka__now creating virtual memory for the card ^^ ):22:41
atka__:)22:41
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atka__yeah, working22:53
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lardmanhmm, that authoritative list is curious, are there really that many "hamradio" apps?22:55
GeneralAntillesHehe22:55
GeneralAntillesYeah, a bit strange.22:56
* lardman would be tempted to tweak AppManager to lump all non-allowed section tags to be placed under a "Junk" category22:56
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GeneralAntillesHehe22:56
GeneralAntillesI'm not entirely against that as a possible solution.22:56
lardmanIs there a list of the currently used section tags?22:57
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GeneralAntillesBut I'd rather just see things put in the correct places.22:57
amrwhat on earth is the 'swap key' ?22:57
lardmani.e. the ones which we don't want?22:57
brontideWhy does autobuilder even allow non-sanctioned categories22:57
GeneralAntillesamr, Home key.22:57
amrah22:57
amrty22:57
lardmanbrontide: indeed22:57
GeneralAntillesbrontide, because we don't have a list of what's sanctioned22:57
GeneralAntillesand there wasn't a good consensus the last time it was discussed.22:57
lardmanGeneralAntilles: some people may always want their own category though22:57
GeneralAntillesThere was a sizeable objection from gcobb.22:58
GeneralAntillesWhose opinion should weigh heavily.22:58
amrupdating, woowoo22:58
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lardmanI do like the idea of debtags though, not sure how to make it work unconfusingly though22:59
GeneralAntillesI really wish we had somebody with a lot of experience and a real opinion.22:59
GeneralAntillesRather than a lot of us just flailing around.22:59
brontidemaybe an upstream guru22:59
GeneralAntillesSounds like a good idea.22:59
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I don't see any real problem here though, we just make a decision, see if it works22:59
amri really wish opensource had some nice program designers :<23:00
GeneralAntillesGotta find one. . . .23:00
amrinstead of good programmers23:00
GeneralAntilleslardman, well, it tends to be non-trivial to change these things on the fly.23:00
amras well as good programmers !23:00
amreven23:00
GeneralAntillesSo getting something in that works well on the first try is important23:00
brontideI do like the idea of App manager lumping everything that it doesn't understand into Other23:00
brontideand then we can sort it out as we go23:01
GeneralAntillesand enforcing capitalization.23:01
GeneralAntillesAn authoritative list enforcement by Application manager is good for localization, too.23:01
brontideHow about an autobuilder warning23:01
amroh my23:01
amr2008 is hot.23:01
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I'll have to re-read the ml posts23:02
lardmanbbiab23:02
GeneralAntillesbrontide, maybe.23:02
brontidethat will bring attention to the issue without changing the status quo23:02
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'm in favor of rejecting packages that don't comply.23:02
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gentooerdo I have to do anything special to install the "OS2008 Feature upgrade 1:4.2008.30-2" if I boot off a SD card?23:05
milhouseGA: I think we should be strict, that's probably the easiest option. If it doesn't comply, reject.23:05
GeneralAntillesgentooer, nope.23:06
lardmanGA: You're a pastafarian?23:06
GeneralAntilleslardman, only a little around the eyes. ;)23:06
GeneralAntillesI'm about as un-religious as they get.23:06
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GeneralAntillesmilhouse, yeah so do I, but we need consensus before we can do that.23:07
lardmanJust saw your "Praise FSM!" ;)23:07
milhouseCan't we just make a decision? :) Getting consensus seems to be one of the biggest problems - I'd say make the decision, and if anyone disagrees then deal with it after.23:07
amris it just my device or is the max volume on 2008he super quiet?23:07
GeneralAntilles$DIETY wasn't coming to me, so I went with the next best thing. :D23:07
GeneralAntillesmilhouse, prod that discussion on -developers again.23:08
gentooerGeneralAntilles, i just upgraded and overwrote my modified initfs and now i'm running off internal memory :(23:08
GeneralAntillesSome people who actually use the thing had some objections, so. . . .23:08
milhouseGA: Has the never ending packages debate kicked off again on -developers? I've not been paying attention to it much of late :(23:08
GeneralAntillesgentooer, when fanoush's flasher asks you if you want it to spit out a jffs2 image of the initfs, say "yes"23:08
GeneralAntillesThen copy that over to your computer23:08
GeneralAntillesThen you can re-flash your initfs with flasher-3.0.23:09
GeneralAntillesmilhouse, not recently23:09
GeneralAntillesI'm still referring to the last big one from a few months ago.23:09
milhousei thought we were close to agreeing a set list of categories, based on the maemo standard ones which everyone ignored ?23:09
GeneralAntillesNo, the category list isn't the biggest issue23:10
GeneralAntillesIt's still enforcement.23:10
milhouseif we now have autobuilder for extras, isn't it relatively easy just to boot out any non-confirming builds?23:10
milhouseoh right gotcha23:10
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milhousewell, how much consensus do we need? will 2 do?23:10
amrok this may be massively obvious23:10
milhouse:)23:10
amrbut how do i turn the onscreen keyboard back on with 2008he ?23:10
GeneralAntillesamr, use center-dpad to activate23:10
amri realise 2008 devices have a hardware keyboard so i assume that's why it's not coming up23:10
amrah i'm a lemon23:11
GeneralAntillesThumb detection is funky in Chinook.23:11
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GeneralAntillesDiablo fixes it, but Diablo isn't yet (ever?) out for the 770.23:11
GeneralAntillesmilhouse, we may want to put an RfC on the wiki and CC -developers.23:11
GeneralAntillesGive it a few weeks, see what people say, go from there.23:11
GeneralAntillesHelping X-Fade get the proposal in good shape is the first step, though.23:12
milhouseI would say that sounds perfect - make the proposal, and see what the reaction is... I'd say most will go along with it.23:12
milhousea decision is better than no decision.23:12
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GeneralAntillesOh hell23:13
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GeneralAntilles30-2 disabled maemo.org Extras.23:13
GeneralAntillesWhat the fuck, Nokia?!23:13
milhouseso it did - same here23:14
milhousetwats.23:14
* brontide picks jaw up off the floor23:14
amrheh, not a good start23:14
brontidewhat do they use for regression testing a magic 8 ball?23:14
amr08he just soiled itself23:14
GeneralAntillesThat retarded nokia-repositories package.23:14
GeneralAntillesandre___, should we add a 4.1+ version?23:14
atka__yeah, i added some of repos... i love os2008 ^^23:15
GeneralAntillesI'm tempted to file this Extras bug as critical . . .23:15
* GeneralAntilles is thinking out arguments to justify it as "data loss" in his head.23:15
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amratka__ is your sound screwed?23:15
amrseems like certain frequencies are being dropped23:16
amrlike vocals in songs are massively reduced23:16
amri can't hear sound effects very well23:16
andre___GeneralAntilles, yeah, also thought about that23:16
andre___will do that tomorrow, ok?23:17
GeneralAntillesandre___, yeah, no rush.23:17
atka__amr, i cant mean your question23:17
atka__:$23:17
amrcan you hear sound effects okay in 08he?23:17
atka__oh, yes :)23:17
amroh hrm23:18
atka__but i switch off sound effects23:18
amrthis is frustrating :(23:18
amryeah so do i, but my sound is very broken23:18
amri'll see if it's the same with headphones23:18
GeneralAntilleskonttori, ping.23:18
andre___GeneralAntilles, i want rush! push me! ;-)23:19
GeneralAntillesandre___, do everything now or stick poking will commence in 3... 2... !23:19
atka__off: there is a hungarian? :)23:19
andre___eeks23:21
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andre___Joreggelt.23:21
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atka__:D23:22
atka__Neked is.23:22
amryeah my sound is definitely screwed23:22
amrand i'm randomly rebooting23:22
amrheh, think i'll download the image again23:23
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amr~flashing23:23
infobothmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware23:23
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GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356623:24
GeneralAntillesPlease vote.23:24
GeneralAntilleskonttori, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3566 anything you can do to push that internally.23:25
GeneralAntillesThat's really unacceptable.23:25
GeneralAntillesDownright evil, really.23:25
GeneralAntillesFor a variety of reasons.23:25
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brontideGeneralAntilles: vote + comment confirming23:27
brontideLove it "Nokia doesn't arbitrarily screw with user settings on a live system."23:28
GeneralAntillesMan, that one really got to me.23:28
GeneralAntillesEverything about that is wrong23:28
GeneralAntillesThere's no reason to touch Extras, they aren't changing anything.23:28
brontideAt this point why isn't Maemo extras enabled by default23:29
GeneralAntillesThe only repository they need to touch is the Tableteer upgrade repo.23:29
GeneralAntillesbrontide, ahahah . . . no.23:29
GeneralAntillesmaemo.org Extras being a community repository and not a Nokia one, they have no business touching it.23:29
XTLI didn't notice extras getting disabled..23:30
brontideThen why even list it be default23:30
GeneralAntillesThe irony of ironies is disabling it with a package named "nokia-repositories"23:30
brontides/be/by/23:30
infobotbrontide meant: Then why even list it by default23:30
GeneralAntillesBecause it's where people get all of their software from23:30
XTLNope. Actually I got a second one23:30
GeneralAntillesSo it's just a few taps to un-disable it.23:30
GeneralAntillesRather than having to add it on their own.23:31
X-FadeNew profile listing is in place.23:31
brontideIt's just a single tap to run and .install file that will add it23:31
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GeneralAntillesMeh, you have to open a browser and find a website that has a .install23:31
GeneralAntillesThat's more work to me.23:31
XTLWhat version of nokia-repository should there be on 30-2?23:31
GeneralAntillesbrontide, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=327923:31
gentooeris there anyway I can just mount the internal memory partitions and access them directly?23:32
X-Fadehttps://maemo.org/profile/list/category/blogs/ for example.23:32
GeneralAntillesXTL, the only repository change is "diablo-1" for the upgrade repository23:32
GeneralAntillesWhich seems like a bad way to do things to me. :\23:32
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amrhow big an mmc do i need for mmcboot?23:32
amr08he if that matters23:32
GeneralAntillesamr, at least 256MB23:32
XTL(Again, base packages don't show a repo for me on policy)23:32
amroh that's mine23:32
amrfine*23:32
amrso basically, flash to 08he, get the 48mhz kernel, flash the kernel23:33
amrthen look at mmc booting?23:33
GeneralAntillesamr, right.23:33
amr(sorry for being horribly new, i haven't touched my tablet in about a year)23:33
AnunakinGeneralAntilles: Are you a user of oeforums?23:33
GeneralAntillesAnunakin, no.23:34
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BULLE_any particular reason the web-browser grinds to a complete halt whenever you visit a site with more then one or two flash items ?23:34
BULLE_it just runs out of memory or ?23:34
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GeneralAntillesHrm, it'd be nice to have a full overview page for karma.23:34
AnunakinGeneralAntilles: OK... because on old times... I saw a GA on Zaurus forums23:34
GeneralAntillesHaving a bunch of separate pages for each individual item is kinda awkward.23:35
GeneralAntillesand bugs is missing from the "sort by" list.23:36
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, no. Now I can see that yerga is the absolute application king ;)23:36
GeneralAntilles30-2 would actually have been a good opportunity for Nokia to fix the Extras branding in Application manager if they were gonna fuck with it anyway.23:37
* GeneralAntilles rolleyes.23:37
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amrchrist i can't even open the repository list23:38
amrjust rebooted, nice23:39
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GeneralAntillesamr, OS2007HE is a bit more stable if OS2008HE doesn't work for you.23:39
amryeah i might have to give that a bash, heh23:39
GeneralAntillesI use OS2008HE and like it a lot, but it's hit or miss for some people.23:39
amrwhich tablet do you have?23:39
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GeneralAntilles770 and N80023:40
amrson of a bitch...23:40
amrit restarted again trying to open the repos list23:41
GeneralAntillesBULLE, because flash is slow and shitty.23:41
GeneralAntillesBULLE, flash brings my 2x2.5GHz G5 grinding to a halt sometimes.23:41
amrlol23:41
GeneralAntillesWe have 400MHz and very little RAM to work with.23:41
amr07he is being downloaded23:42
amrwhat a pain23:42
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GeneralAntillesamr, I'd just get an N800 and call it a day. ;)23:42
amrheh23:42
amri'm very tempted23:42
amroh it rebooted again :x23:42
GeneralAntillesSomething's probably wrong.23:43
amrit's the applications manager that does it23:43
GeneralAntillescould be a corrupt sources.list23:43
amrhum23:43
GeneralAntillesThough odd that the watchdog would kick in for that. . . .23:43
amrit's computers - they're generally odd :(23:44
amri don't know whether it's doing it automatically after a time23:46
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amri just typed in to x-term: cat /etc/apt/sources.list23:47
amrand as soon as i hit tab to complete sources.list - it rebooted23:47
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GeneralAntillesIt also kills it when it goes too lock in a CPU lock23:47
GeneralAntillesOh?23:47
GeneralAntillesSounds broken.23:47
amrsounds massively broken23:47
GeneralAntillesReflash?23:47
GeneralAntillesOdd, though.23:47
amralready done with a newly downloaded copy of 0823:47
amri'll give 07 a go23:47
amranything critical in 08 that isn't in 07?23:48
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GeneralAntillesA lot of fixes and improvements.23:48
amroh :(23:48
GeneralAntillesNew software compatibility.23:48
GeneralAntillesI'd try 07 and see how it goes, though,23:48
amrwell i made do with 06, hopefully 07 will do23:48
GeneralAntillesIt's not super-critical.23:48
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GeneralAntillesandre___, happen to recall the "tap-to-hide-notification-banner" bug number?23:50
GeneralAntillesAhaha23:50
GeneralAntilles"It was my understanding that once OS2008/Diablo was installed, that future updates to the OS would not require a reboot".23:50
GeneralAntillesAwesome.23:51
GeneralAntillesGuess that guy is really, _really_ concerned about uptime, eh?23:51
andre___well. i think he's just a very average user.23:51
andre___err, don't even know which bug exactly you have in mind23:51
GeneralAntillesIt's a Sean Luke bug23:51
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GeneralAntillesI'll find it23:52
* timelyx chuckles23:52
timelyxmy ipod required a reboot (or 2) for 2.0.123:52
timelyxreboots are not really a serious concern23:52
timelyxa more interesting requirement is that you actually be able to use SSU at all23:52
* timelyx is somewhat concerned about that part23:52
andre___GeneralAntilles, 1253?23:53
GeneralAntillesThat's the one23:53
GeneralAntillesI think that's resolved for Diablo23:53
GeneralAntillesmost infobanners seem to go away when I tap them now, anyway.23:53
andre___not all.23:53
amrheh, it was 08 that broke my sound, 07 seems to be okay23:53
GeneralAntillesNo, active ones like "Updating..." don't23:54
andre___i'm still annoyed that after removing the lock and tapping the loudspeaker symbol, i have to wait to change the volume23:54
timelyxBULLE: you shouldn't expect anything to handle multiple flash applets well23:54
GeneralAntillesBut stupid ones like "Nokia thinks they're a really green company, and thinks this banner will impress you" do.23:54
andre___haha23:54
Veggenok, det ble ikke mer enn fire mil på sykkel. Vel, det holder vel.23:54
Veggen(pent og rolig og se seg om blir det jo sånn)23:54
* GeneralAntilles is still really pissed about that bug.23:55
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Veggenuh, wrong channel.23:55
andre___Veggen, does that really belong here? :-)23:55
GeneralAntillesThey've added it to the charing screen, too. . .23:55
andre___ah :)23:55
GeneralAntillesIf Nokia ACTUALLY gave two licks about the environment, they'd stop producing billions and billions of disposable cellphones.23:56
GeneralAntillesHypocrisy at its finest.23:56
timelyxGeneralAntilles: i was in the meeting about that23:56
timelyxit was very depressing23:56
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timelyxbut basically my understanding is that it came from some EU reg23:56
GeneralAntillesNo shit?23:57
timelyxand basically had nothing to do w/ being green and everything to do w/ regulatory compliance23:57
GeneralAntillesAwesome.23:57
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timelyx~free market ftw23:57
GeneralAntillesCan't they ship a US-only firmware so as to not piss me the fuck off? :D23:57
timelyxi was there because i was making some other ChangeRequest and we got lumped together23:57
timelyxheh23:57
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GeneralAntillesandre___, I'm so used to that stupid lock banner that I don't even notice anymore.23:58
GeneralAntillesYet another reason we need soft poweroff.23:58
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andre___...and i should stop working for today and get into a club. well, half an hour left :)23:59

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