IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-08-10

jottthat's why i suggested to provide a recent freedesktop based s-m-i (maybe s-m-i-freedesktop)00:00
zapno, its because Nokia take the decision (and I can understand why) to not include the whole 1Mb freedesktop.xml in the default distro00:01
zapand as far as I understand their approach, every applications carries his MIME types with it00:01
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timelyyou mean MBs of storage don't grow on trees?00:01
zapand thats what I'm trying to follow00:01
zapI mean NITs do everything to save space00:01
jottbut bzip2 does not acctually handle the mime type from a desktop perspective.00:03
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zapand tar does not provide a handler from desktop perspective00:04
zapand neverless, the debian tar package contains the mime type definition00:05
RST38hwait, gentlemen, what are you trying to do?00:05
jottzap: well it's mime type actually binds an action.00:05
RST38hI am looking at your discussion and it sounds like there is already a way to do what you want00:05
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jottit's not a type defintion00:06
zapjott: MIME type definitions don't define actions00:06
jottRST38h: it's more a design decision00:06
jottapplication/x-tar; /bin/tar tvf -; print=/bin/tar tvf - | print text/plain:-; copiousoutput00:06
jottapplication/x-gtar; /bin/tar tvzf -; print=/bin/tar tvzf - | print text/plain:-; copiousoutput00:06
jottthat's what's in your tar "mime type"00:06
RST38hjott: There is a directory with mime definitions and there is a directory with .desktop files00:06
jottRST38h: yes.00:07
RST38hjott: A mime definition simply says "file with this extension or content has this type"00:07
RST38hjott: The .desktop file says "this application supports these mime types"00:07
jottyes00:07
jottright00:07
jottmy point is, an application that provides a mimetype *should* also provide the desktop00:07
RST38hoh...not necessarily00:07
RST38hwhat if there are multiple applications for a type (let us say .pdf)00:08
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RST38hOR I may decide to add a mime type but not support it in the current app version00:08
jottthen we have a problem when there is no shared-mime-info00:08
jottwell actually not.00:09
RST38hwhat problem?00:09
jottok, to rephrase it. who should provide mime types?00:09
zapand who?00:10
jottin best case, a shared mime info given by the freedesktop standards.00:11
RST38hwhoever has intention to access files of these types00:11
jottor, in case of a single application, it should in a best case also provide the desktop00:11
jottRST38h: so it clutters?00:11
jottlike 20 apps handling the same type should all put the same mime info in there?00:12
jottor not even handling them from a desktop view00:12
zaplike I said, update-mime-types can cope with this00:12
jottsure00:12
zapit is *designed* to see several xml files that define same MIME info00:12
jotti never said it would not work.00:12
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RST38hjott: it may00:13
zapallright, look at the existing xml files in /usr/share/mime/packages/00:13
RST38hthere is no problem with it00:13
zapthey are all provided by some separate package that handles the respective format00:13
RST38hit is quite possible that multiple apps will be able to handle a type00:13
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jottRST38h: sure. my design question was, should all clutter mime or should one promote the official freedesktop standard.00:14
zapwhy you call that 'clutter'?00:14
RST38hprobably the first00:15
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jott.. ok..00:15
RST38hbecause MIME has always assumed ability to add new private types00:15
zapbesides, my approach is to provide not only a MIME type, but icons for this file type00:15
RST38hif you only follow freedesktop you can't do that00:15
zapand thats will be a lot more than 1Mb... if it provides them all00:15
jottRST38h: sure. but those actually IN there? for new unsupported types thats perfectly fine.00:16
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jottanyway.00:16
jottwe disagree and i don't think we will agree.00:16
jottit's ok.00:17
jotti accept your opinion.00:17
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RST38hjott: well, having a default set of types probably wouldn't harm00:19
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RST38hBut I do not see this as a very important feature, more like a neat thing to have00:20
jottRST38h: yeah well, it's actually already there in the freedesktop.org.xml just needs to be put in place ;)00:21
RST38hif it takes a lot of space in flash and/or takes long time to parse when loading, then it is a problem00:23
RST38hI have no idea why Nokia hasn't used it though00:23
jottjffs2 should compress it fairly well.00:23
timelyRST38h: did you talk to leonid?00:24
RST38htimely: yes. he seems to think it is adblock00:25
jottadblock slows the browser drastically down ...00:25
RST38hsays he is getting 5s to open a microb window00:25
RST38hwell, I can just test right now00:25
moontigeryes i second that with adblock and performance ... i uninstalled it00:25
timelyadblock is indeed a good guess00:25
timelyadblock on launch iirc will try to update all of its block lists00:26
timelyor something similarly stupid :)00:26
RST38honly if you ask for it00:26
jottmy startup times ~tripled.00:26
moontigerthats what i guessed was happening too00:26
* timely shrugs00:26
jott(with adblock installed)00:26
timelyanyway... thanks.. that's good. i'll make that point 5 in my "how to break microb and blame us"00:26
RST38hbut you are not getting any ads right?00:26
jottRST38h: right :)00:26
timelyi turn off image loading :)00:26
RST38htimely: do wait until I test it00:26
moontigerim happy with flashblock ... the other ads arent so heavy imo00:27
timelyRST38h: i wouldn't push until i got to work :)00:27
RST38htimely: In the meanwhile, looks like some (if not all) livejournal.com pages send browserd into a loop00:28
chellizap: the is still no fixed unrar-nonfree in diablo-extras-devel *puncturing-you-with-a-needle* ;-)00:29
zapyes, it is00:29
timelyRST38h: sadly i have bigger issues atm00:29
zapI'll fix it RSN00:29
RST38htimely: even bigger issues?00:29
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timelya primary service i work on was disabled because it was killing its host00:29
RST38his it world peace? =)00:30
moontigerhehe00:30
timelythe server is used my many developers and is the stage for a service used by most mozilla devs00:30
timelyit's also the upstream for a service used by maemo devs @nokia and mxr.maemo.org00:30
moontigerwhat was / is the service if i may ask?00:30
timelyi need to solve that before i play w/ anything else00:30
chellizap: (it is still 3.8.2-1maemo1 which has the size-mismatch) :)00:30
timelymoontiger: well, you can't see the down version :)00:30
moontigerheh right00:30
timelymxr.mozilla.org is the live one, mxr.maemo.org is the maemo equiv00:30
moontiger:)00:30
moontigerwhat does it do?00:31
timelyif you can't figure that out at first, but figure it out later00:32
timelyi'm accepting patches to improve it so that you wouldn't have to ask00:32
timelyi really don't have time to answer. and it should be self explanatory00:32
moontigeri actually went and read the page ... now i get it ... sorry :|00:32
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RST38hwhere do I find updated rtcomm components?00:34
moontigerso the service is bringing the server down because the indexing crawler(s) are too intensive?00:34
timelynope00:35
timelyi'm told it's actually the /source/ script00:35
timelywhich was recently "optimized" by adding caching00:35
timelybut i have no idea what's going wrong00:35
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GeneralAntillesAdBlock kills MicroB. Hosts/CSS is the way to block ads.00:35
timelyGeneralAntilles: what's the status on the bugs.maemo reorg?00:36
moontigerwonder if the caching tripped the swap file usage or something00:36
GeneralAntillestimely, no visible progress.00:36
GeneralAntillesThe logs from the bugzilla meeting are up.00:36
timelymoontiger: the process went over 1gb a couple of times00:36
RST38hdoes not kill microb for me00:36
timelyi have no idea00:36
GeneralAntillesBasically blocked by guenther's work on the templates at this point.00:36
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timelyok00:37
timelythe last visit to source before it was killed was by msnbot ...00:37
* timely grumbles00:37
GeneralAntillestimely, bookmark http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/00:37
jottis there actually an explanation why adblock makes the microb startup so slow?00:37
RST38hit loads stuff00:38
GeneralAntillesI just got back from vacation, and haven't yet gotten back to sitting on people.00:38
timelyjott: there are a couple of profilers available if you want to try playing w/ them00:38
RST38hThe following packages have been kept back:00:38
RST38h  libbz2-1.0 libdb4.2 libglade2-0 libxml2 rtcom-beta-os200800:38
timelybest of all, i have no idea which of two mxr's was actually responsible for the death00:38
jottRST38h: yeah but SO slow?..00:38
RST38hAny ideas of what would be holding back these?00:38
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moontigerwow sounds like fun ... not00:38
RST38hjott: it is JavaScript00:38
jottRST38h: still shouldn't be that slow if done right :)00:39
lbtanyone know about mounting jffs2 on mtd devices? I'm getting jffs2_scan_eraseblock(): Magic bitmask 0x1985 not found at 0x07f40aa8: 0x0104 instead00:39
timelymoontiger: and of course, there's no guarantee that the last request was actually the cause of death... it's just a more likely candidate00:39
moontigerjott: depends on the implemntation of the hpptrequests in the browser code i guess00:39
GeneralAntillesI'd rather seen AdBlock taken down, personally. So many newbies install it and then blame the resulting slowness on MicroB. . . .00:40
moontigertimely: yah00:40
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Blasturhello!00:40
jaskabut browsing on such a small display with ads its... frustrating, unless you limit yourself to known-good sites00:40
* GeneralAntilles should maybe talk krisse into doing a Tablet School article on ad blocking00:40
GeneralAntillesjaska, hosts/css00:40
Blasturanyone know if its possible to connect a joystick to the n810?00:41
timelymoontiger: it wasn't a good experience, the box admin just "killed" the files00:41
jottbut with hosts  you can't block http://goodsite.com/ads/ .. :/00:41
Blasturi mean, does it supply enough power00:41
timelyand didn't send me an email00:41
timelyhe figured i'd "notice eventually"00:41
moontigerwow nice!00:41
moontigerwhat a great guy00:42
timelyit turns out there are a series of cron jobs that did start yelling at me00:42
timelyso i looked, and indeed the directories were missing00:42
timelybut no hint as to where they went or why (or who killed / moved them)00:42
timelyoh, and it was friday, and i was about to turn into a pumpkin00:42
GeneralAntillesjott, that's where CSS comes in.00:42
moontigerright00:42
timelyanyway... i got him, and he thankfully moved them to ~timeless/00:42
timelyso they're not lost *phew*00:43
moontigerso this is indexing and xref'ing the maemo stuff?00:43
jottGeneralAntilles: yeah well... i would rather have a sane adblock ;)00:43
timelymoontiger: the mxr.maemo.org one does, yes00:43
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timelynote that it's somewhat still, the hosting provider there ran into an issue w/ their file system store and until that's fixed, i shouldn't push updates00:44
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timelywe kinda suspect my data was the ton of bricks (they're like straw) that broke the camel's back :(00:44
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moontigerhow much data did u generate?00:45
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jottdoes greasemonkey for mircob "work" or has it similar problems as adblock?00:46
timelymoontiger: well, the indexes in some cases are 1/2 gb each :)00:47
timelybut mostly it's the sources themselves are gbs (say 22 in one case)00:47
moontigerwow thats a lot of data to be moving around00:47
timelyno kidding :)00:47
timelyand for added fun, i'm behind a firewall00:48
timelywhich means i get to use rsync + ssh tunneling00:48
timelyoh, and i can never find the right command when i need it :)00:48
RST38htimely: 6.48 with browserd running and adblock disabled00:48
GeneralAntillesjott, somewhat similar to adblock last time I tried.00:49
GeneralAntillesThe page renders normally, then the GreaseMonkey scripts are applied and the page is re-rendered. :\00:50
RST38htimely: 8.73 without browserd and without adblock00:50
timelyRST38h: much closer to our targets00:50
timelynow you understand why we were mistified?00:50
timelynot perfect, it's supposed to be <5 iirc00:50
timelymystified ?00:51
* timely sighs00:51
jottGeneralAntilles: :(00:51
* GeneralAntilles throws lots of grenades at the browser team to mistify them.00:52
timelyGeneralAntilles: i'm almost done reading the log00:52
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RST38htimely: still <3sec difference00:55
RST38hso it looks like you are wasting memory for browserd to gain <3sec load time difference00:55
timelysorry00:55
timelygetting it into that 5s window was really a requriement00:56
timelyplus there's a slightly more interesting point00:56
timelybrowserd has multiple consumers00:56
moontigeris it not possible for the adblock plugin to defer updating the lists until a few seconds after the browser has loaded00:56
moontiger?00:56
timelyperhaps mail or chat or the tutorial00:56
timelyand we don't want those apps to crash just because gecko does00:56
timelyGeneralAntilles: so where's the blog? i want to subscribe to bugjar00:57
timelyalso, did sjgadsby put in the old jar entries?00:57
timelybecause there's nothing that says a blog can't have old content00:57
RST38hoh, one browserd can serve multiple clients?00:57
jottmoontiger: it actually does not need to do automatic updates at all.... well once a month would more than suffice.00:58
GeneralAntillestimely, I never got a URL.00:58
moontigerjott: so why does it do that by default??00:58
GeneralAntillesI don't think he ever followed up to get it onto planet, either.00:58
jottmoontiger: don't ask me :)00:58
timelyRST38h: try the tutorial. afair it is a browserd client00:58
moontigerheh :)00:58
timelyi can't remember any others00:58
timelybut i know internally there are plans for a couple of others00:59
timelyno guarantees of release cycles or anything :)00:59
jottmoontiger: probably because it's an 1:1 port from the desktop version, with just the xul ui removed ;)00:59
jott(and maybe an extra delay added :P01:00
moontigerjott: right ... *laughs*01:00
timelythere's no guarantee of quality w/ the -extras ports01:00
timelyin fact, there's a history of some major bugs in them :)01:00
lbtis jffs2 endian01:00
timelylbt: jffs2 isn't the future as you can see from #maemo logs and itt :)01:01
jotttimely: you should slap people and enforce quality :)01:01
timelyEBUSY01:01
GeneralAntillesJust as well that Browser Extras isn't in maemo.org Extras.01:01
lbtit may not be the future01:01
jotttimely: just slap then then ;)01:01
jottthem01:01
lbtbut Chinook comes with it01:01
lbtand I want to take the chinook jffs2 and put it on my nit01:02
moontigerchinook isnt the future either tho is it?01:02
timelylbt: can chinook boot off an mmc running ext2?01:02
GeneralAntillesChinook is quite clearly the past.01:02
jotttimely: yes.01:02
lbtI'll let you know01:02
lbtOTOH I'd like my app to work on chinook01:02
timelypretend jffs2 doesn't exist, and move along w/ life01:02
lbtso I want a chinook image to test01:02
lbtOK - tell me how to setup multiboot...01:03
lbthttps://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting01:03
timelyfwiw, i'm generally not opposed to dwelling in the past, i run 10.3.9 after all :)01:03
lbtI want to extract from jffs201:03
timely(and various old versions of Maemo)01:03
lbtmy script on that page results in executables that say01:03
* jott prepares an shiny exploit package for timely01:03
timelyENOTWORTHIT01:04
lbtooh... chroot /mnt/chinook/ /bin/sh.... chroot: cannot execute /bin/sh: Exec format error01:04
lbtEIDONTCARE01:04
timelyGeneralAntilles: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Getting_Nokia_involved_in_Bugzilla is kinda empty01:04
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jottbut it's shiny :O01:04
RST38hFSLEEP01:04
timelyjott: true01:04
timelylbt: ls -lf /mnt/chinook/bin/sh01:05
lbtand - all this frigging about has taught me lots about incidentals :)01:05
lbtbusybox symlink01:05
timelytry running busybox instead?01:05
lbtlrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            7 Aug  3 17:50 /mnt/chinook/bin/sh -> busybox01:05
lbtI did01:05
lbt./busybox: line 1: syntax error: "(" unexpected01:06
lbtI wondered about corruption during the rsync01:06
lbtbut the config files in etc are OK01:06
jottwindows line endings? :)01:06
lbtI don't have that OS on any of my machines01:06
lbtbut that's not to say...01:07
jottjust a blind guess ..01:07
lbt's fair01:07
lbtI used the script on the page I linked to get the files into my chinook partition01:07
lbtbut the executables don't execute01:08
jott"I used this script (which doesn't work yet)" haha wiki fin :)01:08
jottfun01:08
lbtI get Exec format errors01:08
lbtduring linuxrc execution01:08
timelyfor kicks, try just running it w/ chroot01:08
lbtjust after the pivot_root01:08
timely /mnt/chinook/bin/busybox01:08
lbtI did01:08
timelywhat's it say?01:08
lbthold on01:08
lbtchroot: cannot execute /bin/sh: Exec format error01:09
lbtwhich is where it all began....01:09
lbtand I went down the "is jffs2 endian rabbit hole"01:09
lbtthen I checked ./etc/ and the files there are OK01:09
GeneralAntillestimely, I tried to provoke some discussion on that during the meeting with lame results.01:09
* GeneralAntilles pokes andre____ with a sharpened stick.01:10
timelyGeneralAntilles: the pages don't seem to work in safari 1.x01:10
timelyone of them worked in ff201:10
GeneralAntillesOh?01:10
GeneralAntillesReload01:10
lbtshould Chinook work on a Diablo kernel?01:10
GeneralAntillesApache threads are segfaulting in the wiki01:10
lbtor rather a diablo initfs01:11
GeneralAntillesBasically waiting on the server upgrades for a fix at this point. . . .01:11
GeneralAntilleslbt, probably01:11
GeneralAntillesNo guarantees, though.01:11
lbtand there's no kexec yet01:11
timelyoh youch01:12
timelylbt: probably not the whole thing01:12
timelybut busybox should either give you a useful error or work if the binary is proper01:12
lbtthe other thing that made me wonder was my host gave a lot of these errors when I loopback mounted the jffs2 rootfs to get the chinook image off01:12
lbtjffs2_scan_eraseblock(): Magic bitmask 0x1985 not found at 0x07f48024: 0xa4db instead01:12
timelyit's a way to test for file corruption01:12
lbtI agree timely01:13
jottlbt: that does not sound sane.01:13
lbtindeed01:13
lbtI suspect the loopback mount isn't right01:13
timelyand yeah, "that sounds BAD"01:13
timelyok01:13
lbtand hence I wondered if it was endian01:13
lbtand I think that's where I came in :D01:13
timelyit seems like my biggest consumer on friday was msnbot01:13
jottnow microsoft has all of the maemo code :O01:14
jottok, the open parts ;)01:14
lbtI also found this quote on a Gentoo page :The image is an Little Endian jffs2 image. To mount it on Big Endian architectures (like PowerPC) it'll have to be converted:01:14
timelymy other consumer was a libwww-perl script trying to exploit some service01:14
lbtand, IINM the arm is a different endian to the x8601:14
lbtbut I'm not sure01:14
jottlbt: maemo is armel.01:14
timelyjott: it was spidering mozilla not maemo01:14
lbtarmel -endian little?01:14
jotttimely: ah so they have firefox now ;)01:15
lbtsame as x86?01:15
timelyyep01:15
lbtok - so it's not that...01:15
* lbt goes digging for shiney things again...01:15
jottlbt: maybe the jffs2 version is incompatible.01:15
lbtI'm on 2.6.27-rc201:16
lbtso maybe01:16
lbtI was just looking for mount options -01:16
lbtthe mtd2block driver01:16
lbthas options to set the erase size01:16
jotthehe -o justfcknwork01:16
lbtso I need to find out how the jffs2 image was made01:16
lbtI wish it would!!01:17
lbtI *WILL* make it01:17
jottisn't there some tool that can just extract a jffs2 image?01:17
lbtjffs2dump01:17
lbtI've seen01:17
lbtbut I want it to mount dammit01:17
lbtthe source for block2mtd (IIRC) suggests that the erasesize is adjustable01:18
lbtI think it's an undocumented feature passed in after a ,01:19
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jottlbt: have you googled for your error? gives quite some results :)01:20
lbtyes - they didn't seem helpful01:20
lbtI think it is just corruption - but I'm not 100% sure01:20
lbtthe 'services' file in mnt/chinook/etc terminates abruptly at ircd            6667/tcp                        # Internet Relay01:22
lbtafter 16384 bytes01:22
timelyyouch01:22
timelythat's a magicish number01:22
lbtit is isn't it :)01:22
lbtI'm going with corruption and a bad erasesize on the loopback mount01:23
lbtnow, how do I analyse a jffs2 image to determine creation attributes?01:23
* lbt is thinking out loud01:23
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lbthmm fanoush does $MYDIR/mkfs.jffs2 -r initfs -o $1 -e 128 -l -n01:25
lbtouch - just tickled a BUG01:28
timelyOOPS? :)01:29
* GeneralAntilles really hates the "Email, Digg, Spam This!" spam on planet posts. . . .01:30
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lbton my host01:30
GeneralAntillesLooks like aisu stole your WB theme, timely. ;) http://planet.maemo.org01:30
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lbthttp://pastebin.com/d3f79d62901:30
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lbt<sigh>, reboot bbl01:35
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timelyheh01:37
timelynice choice of art, and given that i can't get WB here (my DVR is broken) i think i'll just smile :)01:37
timelythe xp theme for it is impressive01:38
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* timely chuckles01:38
timelyi guess people really don't like vala :)01:39
lbtwhy?01:39
timelycheck out the bottom of planet-maemo01:39
timelythe vala item (not by zeenix) is  +1 -601:40
timelywhich is possibly a record for bad karma01:40
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lbtare you sure it's not just because it's an inane comment?01:42
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timelyno, too lazy to check01:45
timelyoh01:45
timelyit really is just one comment?01:45
lbtyep01:45
timelyalright, let's make it -7 :)01:45
ywwgso I created a new application for maemo.  I call it "I Am Free."  It displays a red gem and costs absolutely nothing01:45
lbtI was interested in vala...01:45
ywwg:D01:45
* lbt yawns01:45
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timelyok, -7 it is :)01:46
ywwgget it while it's hot: http://ywwg.com/maemo/i_am_free-diablo.install01:46
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crashanddieanyone ever had the issue of flash video not working correctly on a 770 ?01:48
timelyum, it's not going to work01:48
timelyflash video gets feature upgrades w/ each flash release01:48
timely(8.5, 9, 9.5, 10)01:48
timelyflash on 770 is older01:48
crashanddieapparently my vic has flash 9 on his 770 (2007HE)01:49
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* timely shrugs01:50
timelyunless i'm mistaken that's unlicensed01:50
timelyplease correct me if i'm wrong01:50
crashanddieI don't know01:50
timelythe general story is that people pay adobe for flash by the unit(w/ specified os)01:52
timelyand nokia would not have paid adobe for flash9 on 77001:52
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lbtanyone here running chinook - could you tell me what "cat /proc/mtd" says?01:53
lbtthe rootfs line01:54
GeneralAntillesFlash 9 on the 770 is unlicensed01:54
GeneralAntillesbut some people grab it from an N800/N81001:55
GeneralAntillesIt really doesn't have the horsepower for in-browser flash video01:55
GeneralAntillesThey should use mplayer if they really need it.01:55
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timelyi'm not really sure what the rules on that are, but in general, it's probably not very nice to ask an unwitting person about that...01:55
pupnikthis is AWESOME:  Homemade Handheld Helicopter --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_QOLk1V7sw01:56
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timelyheh01:57
timelynokia sells an extended device warranty?01:57
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timelyor is that compusa?01:57
GeneralAntillesGotta be CompUSA01:57
GeneralAntillesNokia doesn't even have parts for the 770 anymore.01:58
timelythat could be so interesting01:59
timelythe last time i dealt w/ compusa on a deal like that01:59
timelyi (well my dad) got a free upgrade from a 386 to a 486 because a part failed :)01:59
GeneralAntillesNokia was either doing payouts or replacements with N800s for a lot of 770 owners with WSoDs.02:00
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GeneralAntillesI'm surprised by the number of people reporting dramatically improved tablet experiences going Chinook -> Diablo.02:01
lbtmy 3yr old Canon S1 had a dodgy sensor and it got replace with a spanking new S5 'cos they were out of stock of the sensors :)02:01
GeneralAntillesI mean, Diablo's nice, but it isn't really a dramatic improvement02:01
timelyGeneralAntilles: interesting02:01
GeneralAntillesMakes me think a lot of people had some godawful-broken Chinook installs.02:01
lbtWOOHOO!!!!02:02
GeneralAntilleslbt, I'm going to see if I can work a deal for my mother's old S500 for a discount on a refurbed Rebel.02:02
lbtthey're nice02:03
GeneralAntillesMy dad got an XTi for a 25-year company anniversary present02:03
GeneralAntillesI'd like to get an XT or something for myself.02:03
lbtI have a D3002:04
lbt:D02:04
GeneralAntillesWhore.02:04
lbtoriginal and not the best!02:04
lbtreally need an upgrade now02:05
GeneralAntillesMy buddy just got a free D80 from some crazy old woman he knows in Bermuda.02:05
lbtno, this is the pre 30D,20D,10D,D60 version02:05
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, the august sprint is supposed to be in 4 days, how come the wiki is empty ?02:06
GeneralAntilles22, isn't it?02:06
crashanddiePlanning meeting organized in the #maemo-meeting IRC channel on Tuesday 2008/08/1202:06
GeneralAntillesMostly because Quim is now on vacation, anyway.02:06
crashanddiesooo... Quim goes to hug a beach, and everyone stops working ? :D02:06
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GeneralAntillesWell, Quim does most of that work. ;)02:07
lbtanyhow - the answer is: echo "/dev/loop0,128KiB" > /sys/module/block2mtd/parameters/block2mtd02:07
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trev0rany maemo mapper users here?03:42
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summatusmentisI like to pretend I am, but I don't actualy use it03:45
trev0ryou poser03:45
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Mace`that's it.. i'm going to rebuild my entire gentoo box and if that doesn't work i'm wiping it and never looking back04:00
Mace`i suppose i'll install debian on the box after this04:00
Mace`or ubuntu04:00
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trev0rwhat more could you need than your internet tablet04:13
summatusmentisa computer that will do VMs :)04:18
trev0rthe n770 is featured quite a bit in the harold kumar sequel04:19
gentooeranyone use mCalendar?04:32
gentooeror any other calendar software that syncs with google?04:33
GeneralAntilless/n770/770/g04:33
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summatusmentisgentooer: I just use Google Calendar :)04:50
gentooeryeah i might stick with that for now.. mCalendar is pretty broken04:51
GeneralAntillesalpha04:51
gentooeryeah i know. just thought i'd give it a try04:51
GeneralAntillesFeel free to help Khertan out and submit patches. ;)04:52
gentooeri'll try :)04:53
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robinkDoes the Git package from the Debian repository work on Maemo?05:24
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Italodance.07:24
terbo^07:24
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Italodance:D07:26
Italodancemorning07:26
terboevenin07:26
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GeneralAntillesWho let "Share apps" past copy-editing for the maemo.org intro. <_<07:37
* GeneralAntilles pokes X-Fade.07:46
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oilinkihey. is there a ready made list how much each n810 component uses battery? eg. display min, med, max ,gps chip, wlan idle/action, bt id/action etc.07:50
GeneralAntillesNo.07:51
oilinkioukki.07:51
oilinkiseems like the lid display is the biggest power hungry element in the system07:52
GeneralAntillesBacklights are the biggest consumer of energy on most mobile devices.07:54
oilinkimaemo-mapper with bt-gps and display lit, the battery life was about 4 hours. display lit only when needed extended the life to 4 times more07:54
GeneralAntillesDropping the brightness can help a lot07:55
GeneralAntillesIf you're in a car, just get a power adaptor, though.07:55
oilinkiI had an old power adapter, but n810 seemed to refuse it. need to get a new one.07:55
GeneralAntillesGmail webmail is really slow right now, I'm waiting fo the message I just typed out to finish appearing on screen. <_<07:56
GeneralAntillesVoltage is off if it says "Not charging"07:56
GeneralAntillesYou can pick up Nokia adaptors for about $2 a piece off Amazon.07:56
oilinkiI'll just go to a local little shop and check there.07:57
oilinkiI need to install one for my scooter as well.07:57
GeneralAntillesShould probably tackle the maemo.org organization one section at a time. . . .08:00
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DekaAnyone here in BC?08:27
MAXLOOTHello can someone plz tell me a good maemo/n800 forum? thanks08:28
Dekahttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/08:28
MAXLOOTthanks deka08:29
lpotterI drove though BC once. does that count?08:34
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moontigerdoes anybody know how to install something like gedit or whatnot inside sbox? nano is getting really old :(08:42
GAN800How about vi? . . .08:43
moontigereverytime i try to run vi i have to kill the process cos i can't even quit from it08:43
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lpotterjjust do Esc :q!08:49
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lpotterjust use the editor on the host08:50
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GAN800moontiger, then learn how to use vi?08:58
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moontigergan800 ... i know but i just really dont want to spend that much of my life learning a text editor :|09:00
GAN800It'll take all of five minutes to get the basics.09:02
terbostep one: writing an operating system09:02
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moontigeri would love to be able to use anjuta but i havent figured out how to even install it inside sbox09:10
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RST38hEclipse? KILL.09:12
RST38hmoontiger: use pico09:12
RST38hyou do not need to learn pico09:13
moontigeri can use joe and nano but really ... is there no way to use an editor with a gui ... it is 2008 no? *sighs*09:13
RST38hthere is09:13
RST38hI have no idea why you would need a gui in the text editor, but gimme a moment09:14
RST38hmoontiger: http://geany.uvena.de/09:17
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moontigerthnx but what is the link for? i already use geany on my main dev system for web stuff ... is there a way to get that running insode of sbox? :)09:21
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moontigerforgive me ... im reading the ittabletalk pages now ... thanks :)09:27
trev0rdoes syncing the n810 with a phone add anything besides the ability to use the phone's internet?09:32
moontigertrevor ... i think you can xfer files if your fone is set up for that but essentially its for internet access i think09:35
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trev0ri was wondering if it would notify you of calls, etc09:36
bef0rdI can 'control' the n810 from my SE phone09:36
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GAN800trev0r, phonelink09:37
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* moontiger is resigned to command line tools for dev work *sigh*09:45
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RST38hgood boy09:55
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bef0rdwhy do you need to install the dev tools inside sbox?10:08
bef0rdcan't you just open the 'project' files outside of sbox, with your IDE, and just use sbox to type make?10:08
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RST38hbef0rd: Maemo SDK+10:13
RST38hbef0rd: sb1 won't do it but sb2 (part of maemosdk+) will10:13
GAN800I wonder if it's time to start tackling the branding for maemo.org now that the logo is in place. . . .10:14
RST38hdepends on what you mean by branding10:22
GAN800maemo -> Maemo, etc10:23
RST38hah10:23
RST38hyep10:23
GAN800Now where's X-Fade. . . .10:24
GAN800or bergie. . . .10:25
GAN800Anybody have an opinion on site-wide full-justification?10:30
ProteousI think anyone who has an opinion about site-wide full-justification should just shut up10:31
Proteouskeep it to yourself10:31
bef0rdok.10:31
ProteousWE DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOUR QUIBBLES10:31
Proteousseriously, no one really cares about it as much as you do, so you'll just be boring us10:31
* GAN800 steals Proteous's Lucky Charms.10:31
Proteousand belive me, no one wants to be bored10:32
Proteousespecialy by your justification viewpoints10:32
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Proteousyou can blame GAN800 for my poor disposition10:34
Proteoushe stole all my breakfast cereal10:34
Proteousthat makes me cranky10:34
Proteousnow GET OFF MY LAWN10:34
* GAN800 adds milk, eats.10:34
* Proteous cries10:34
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* moontiger catches up.....10:45
moontigeryah well right now im just doing some python for a home screen applet so its not too bad10:46
moontigerwhen i start using c or c++ it might be more of a pain10:47
moontigerbtw ... can i use c++ for maemo apps? and glade?10:47
lbthttp://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/tutorial/html/index.html10:49
bef0rdI saw gtkmm/glade libs with chinook, dunno if they are available to diablo10:50
lbtyes10:50
lbt(not sure about glade if that's what you meant)10:50
deckelI could need a pointer on how to recover my non booting 810. The blue status bar is complete, but it doesn't go any futher.10:51
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keesjbef0rd: I think c++ dev was even officialy anounced10:55
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lbtif you want to look at a simple-ish c++ app then I'm currently writing Shopper: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/shopper10:57
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moontigerlbt: thanks much :)11:34
moontigerim developing a simple python home applet to get my google calendar right now just to get my feet wet11:34
moontigerthen i want to do some more ambitious stuff11:34
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pupnikdeckel: have you tried reflashing?11:38
aquatixmorning all11:39
qwerty12hi aquatix11:39
deckelpupnik: I am sure that would solve the problem but I'd like to avoid that. Seems my installation of advanced-backlight caused the trouble. That was the last thing I did before rebooting.11:39
qwerty12deckel, Do you have fanoush's initfs installed?11:39
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deckelqwerty12: No11:40
qwerty12Then you are SOL. Fanoush's initfs can get you into a / either by telnet/ssh or booting another system of a memory card :/11:40
deckelok. I'll reflash and have a look at this. Thanks.11:44
GeneralAntillesdeckel, adv-backlight?11:44
GeneralAntillesI don't see how. . . .11:44
GeneralAntillesUnless there was something broken about your system going in. :\11:44
deckelYes, adv-backlight. I'll reflash and install adv-backlight again. Just to see if that was the problem.11:45
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, hildon-desktop is a POS :(. I've had it crash on bootup just by updating the rss reader applet.11:45
GeneralAntilleslol, qwerty12, everything's a POS to you, isn't it? :P11:45
GeneralAntillesdeckel, it wont.11:46
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Of course :P :D11:46
* qwerty12 so needs a bigger hard drive11:46
deckelGeneralAntilles: it won't crash then?11:46
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GeneralAntillesdeckel, thousands of people use it without issue.11:48
GeneralAntillesThere's very little chance that it was actually the culprit.11:48
RST38hqwerty11:49
qwerty12Hi RST38h11:49
deckelSo, it is impossible to find out what the problem was? I'll have a look at Fanoush's initfs. Maybe this helps if I run into a similar problem in future.11:50
GeneralAntillesWell, boot issues aren't the easiest things in the world to diagnose.11:51
GeneralAntillesDefinitely install fanoush's initfs.11:51
GeneralAntillesAs that'll give you a usbnet ssh/telnet recovery route.11:51
GeneralAntillesThere are thousands of small things that can lead to reboot loops.11:52
deckelDo I need a MMC or can I install it without?11:52
GeneralAntillesYou don't need anything11:52
GeneralAntillesit's intended primarily to provide a bootmenu for multiboot11:53
GeneralAntillesbut you don't need to use multiboot to use it.11:53
deckelok. I'll reflash and install it right after that.11:53
GeneralAntillesanything you did between your last poweron and the one that ended in a loop could've caused the loop.11:53
liriRST38h: how's it going11:55
GeneralAntillesAwesome. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=211972#post21197211:57
GeneralAntillesGoogle traffic11:58
JaffaNice.11:58
GeneralAntillesThat makes me a bit giddy11:58
GeneralAntillesNo need for FM sideband with that. :D11:58
GeneralAntillesHi, Jaffa. :)11:58
Jaffa'lo11:58
qwerty12Like zap says, would be nice if it was compiled with optimisations :/11:58
zap?11:59
qwerty12The floating point stuff, I just took a quick look at rules11:59
zapand it doesn't use them?11:59
qwerty12Nope, rules just lists O212:00
qwerty12Well, this google traffic build anyway12:00
zapindeed, no -mvfp12:00
zapstrange12:00
zapmaemo mapper author isn't aware that gdk-pixbuf-rotate.c uses heavy floating-point math?12:01
qwerty12maemo mapper author is gone for a while afaik :(12:01
GeneralAntillesHe's roadtripping.12:01
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qwerty12~lart libusb12:03
* infobot strangles libusb with a doohicky mouse cord12:03
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deckelGeneralAntilles: Can I follow these instructions? https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_MMC_card12:04
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GeneralAntillesYeah, just the bootmenu part.12:05
Stskeepsqwerty12: i have this crazy idea to store something akin bootmenu.conf in --set-root-device .. not sure how much space i can fill in there though12:06
Stskeepsqwerty12: it'd be interesting from the pov that you dont have to reflash or edit initfs to edit bootmenu, and its possible to do it through flasher too12:07
qwerty12Stskeeps, nice12:08
Stskeepsi'm just not sure when it starts keeling over :>12:08
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qwerty12Hehe, if the initfs is too big, flasher-3.0 will refuse to flash it. You get about 4MB, I've got around 1.3MB free on /mnt/initfs12:09
roadiesanyone know of a openvpn binnary that works with the latest n810 OS distro?12:09
Stskeepsqwerty12: well i would be storing it in CAL instead12:09
qwerty12Stskeeps, hmm, then I would be careful :/12:10
Stskeepseither that or i should just get over myself and upgrade to diablo :P12:10
Stskeepsfor proper rw initf12:10
Stskeepss12:10
GeneralAntillesHrm, that article seems a little less clear than it was the last time I cleaned it up. :\12:11
GeneralAntillesWhose been screwing around with it. . . .12:11
GeneralAntillesWhy are we now linking tar to /home/user/bin, too. . . .12:13
GeneralAntillesUgh12:13
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mikkov_roadies: openvpn is in extras-devel12:15
Stskeepsqwerty12: what i'm really just looking for is a good way to have a grub style boot menu that OS'es can be asked to be added to, like, chroot /mnt/initfs bootmenu add "Deblet" mmcblk1p2 ext2 ro,noatime12:16
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qwerty12Stskeeps, that would pwn12:16
Stskeepsbecause the current way is just.. too advanced12:17
Stskeepsand ideally i would love it to have something like how macs dualboot, where you with dpad can select images/icons for what you'd like to boot12:17
qwerty12Someone made a graphical bootmenu for 770 (well, it showed tux anyway) but I can't find it anymore :(12:18
zapAnybody heard the internal flash memory to wear out when somebody uses it extensively for writing?12:19
Stskeepshttp://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/2/7/8/apple-bootcamp-photo10.png <- mac12:19
zapI'm a little worried since while developing I have to often install/uninstall packages12:19
Stskeepszap: could always clone to mmc12:19
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Stskeepseasier to replace mmc than internal12:20
qwerty12and hope that flash chip holding initfs doesn't wear out :>12:20
zapI'm thinking about using aufs for that12:20
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qwerty12zap, good luck. using unionfs to "union" /home/user would kill hildon-desktop :/12:20
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zapwhy?12:21
zapunionfs sucks anyway12:21
qwerty12If I knew why, I'd be a very happy person :)12:21
zapIs it possible to write a control panel applet using Python?12:22
Stskeepsqwerty12: why is it btw that people reflash the initfs when they could just remount it rw? or does that blow up things?12:22
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deckelGeneralAntilles: Installed the bootmenu. Thanks for your help.12:22
GeneralAntillesOK, article is a little clearer now.12:22
qwerty12Stskeeps, I guess most people, regarding initfs, only install fanoush's bootmenu. It has to be compatible with all tablets and all hardware and you can only remount initfs rw in diablo compared to flashing it in all itos's12:23
deckelI couldn't install e2fsprogs. Installed the alternative (forgot the name) instead12:23
lirican I plug ordinary headphones to the  headphone jack on the n810? (not the nokia's provided headphones)12:23
qwerty12liri, yep12:23
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, give that a quick once over to make sure I didn't screw up, would you? https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card12:24
liriqwerty12: ahh nice, so I can connect it to the fm tuner in my car12:24
liriqwerty12: the n810 though has an N810 transmitter no? maybe I can transmit FM from the n810 itself :)12:24
roadiesmikkov_: I'm still new at this, where is extra-devel?  All I have is extra selection12:25
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, sure, just checking12:25
qwerty12liri, no, N810 has no fm radio/transmitter12:25
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Extras12:25
GeneralAntillesTime to remove the Diablo Extras note, methinks12:26
liriqwerty12: thanks for clearing that out12:26
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, you say to install wget which is fine. But extras should be enabled for wget12:26
qwerty12liri, np12:26
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Ah, I see that when they read root access, extras would be enabled12:27
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Alas, diablo extras does not have a full e2fsprogs (http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/e/e2fsprogs/). To be able to install e2fsprogs, they would have to add the diablo sdk repository :/12:29
Stskeepsqwerty12: how bad is a corrupted CAL btw? in terms of if i end up bricking something12:29
Stskeeps(i have flasher access and fanoush bootmenu :P)12:29
qwerty12Stskeeps, very bad. You would have to cold-flash12:29
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, how do you feel about putting an e2fsprogs in Extras?12:29
Stskeepsqwerty12: lovely12:30
deckelquerty12: I installed the alternative. apt-get showed me12:30
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, I would do but I lost my ssh keys. I wonder if generating new keys and updating the lost ones in my garage page with new ones would work?12:32
qwerty12Stskeeps, even more lovely is that steps for doing so are quite undocumented. keesj would be a good person to ask12:32
mikkov_roadie: in that case install from here http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/o/openvpn/openvpn_2.0.9-4etch1maemo1_armel.deb12:32
qwerty12deckel, is mkfs.ext2 present on your system (you may need to be root to see)?12:33
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, dunno, but you can have one of my patented maemo.org Team Sharpened Poking Sticks if you want. ;)12:33
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Thanks12:33
qwerty12X-Fade, I'm poking you with GeneralAntilles's patented maemo.org Team Sharpened Poking Stick12:34
deckelqwerty12: not present, but installing the bootmenu worked without.12:34
qwerty12deckel, then, alas, it's not an alternative12:34
roadiesGeneralAntilles or mikkov_:  hummmm tried to "install" extra-devel from the URL link on the wiki and it fails with app incompatible....any idea ?12:34
deckelqwerty12: but it is shown as a replacement by apt-get.12:35
qwerty12deckel, but if it lacks the tools to format an ext2 partition, then I do not see it as an alternative12:35
deckelqwerty12: me neither, just wanted to say that this was shown to me.12:36
GeneralAntillesdeckel, you actually don't need e2fsprogs for bootmenu12:36
GeneralAntillesThe article headings were sorted badly12:36
GeneralAntillesI just cleaned that up.12:36
GeneralAntillesroadies, dunno.12:36
mikkov_roadies: use the link that I sent (to roadie ;))12:37
GeneralAntillesHrm, that .install worked a few weeks ago.12:37
GeneralAntillesWhy would https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/install/extras-devel.install throw a "Incompatible application package."12:38
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roadiesmikkov_: sorry, my multi-tasking this morning is off...well try the link *sign*12:39
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, It has a mistake in it. It wants to add the catalogue "extras-devel" but only "[extras]" is in that install.12:40
GeneralAntillesAha12:40
* GeneralAntilles pokes X-Fade.12:40
* GeneralAntilles is just gonna file a bug.12:41
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GeneralAntillesroadies, thanks for finding that. :)12:44
GeneralAntillesAlso: these are the best raspberries I've ever eaten. . . .12:45
Stskeepsqwerty12: 128 is too long in set-root-device but 100 is okay - i might have wiped out my osso-software version but i think it was broken already before :)12:45
Stskeepsbut it still boots12:45
Stskeepswlan macs seem intact12:46
qwerty12Stskeeps, osso-software-version in cal always corrupts when flashing :/. I've got a fix for it somewhere...12:46
roadiesGeneralAntilles:  OK what did I find?  person in confused state running around iwth no head on (aka me)?  mokkov_ gave me the URL but to be honest, I'm not sure it will load.  One thing I did do is config the extra-devel in the Apps Manager - however it doesnt see anything12:47
qwerty12Stskeeps, running /var/lib/dpkg/info/osso-software-version<tab>.postinst will set the software version again12:47
GeneralAntillesroadies, the .install file for Extras-devel was malformed.12:47
GeneralAntillesNeeds to be fixed.12:48
Stskeepsqwerty12: ta12:48
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roadiesoh, glad I could help.... whatever I did :-)12:49
Stskeepshas anyone ever encountered initfs not able to mount / (flash fs)?12:49
* qwerty12 gets excited over new midnight club12:50
qwerty12Stskeeps, are you mounting manually? using ssh, bootmenu.conf?12:50
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roadiesGeneralAntilles: If your fixing it, could U let me know when I can try again?12:50
Stskeepsqwerty12: well, i'm just curious if it would be possible to put bootmenu.conf on the firmware image instead (in /, not initfs)12:51
GeneralAntillesroadies, I don't have the access.12:51
Stskeepsand just mount it readonly to get it12:51
GeneralAntillesX-Fade needs to fix it.12:51
Stskeepsand i wonder if jffs can fuck so much up that it's unmountable12:51
GeneralAntillesSo it'll be whenever I can find him and accost him. ;)12:51
deckelwhere can I find telepathy-haze-0.2.0-1collabora1? Need it for rtcomm-beta-os2008 v2.412:51
RST38happarently, it has not been uploaded yet12:52
qwerty12Stskeeps, try something like this. mount -t jffs2 -o rpsize=1024,rpuid=0,rpuid=30000 /dev/mtdblock4 /tmp/mnt12:53
roadiesGeneralAntilles: when U do find him tell him, a poor slob is flapping in the wind with loose sails...as we say here12:53
GeneralAntillesdeckel, wait it out, or, maybe, bug Robot101 if you're particularly impatient.12:54
GeneralAntillesroadies, it's a 5 character fix. ;)12:54
Stskeepsqwerty12: well, i don't have an actual crash right now, just probing hypothetical situation that would mess up a initfs that loads its configuration from another FS than initfs12:54
qwerty12cool12:56
liriI'm guessing the common thing people do with their N810 is to clone the root partition to the 2gb partition. what do you do with the 256mb?12:58
Stskeepsmy idea is to have a initfs bootmenu.conf that just indicates which partition / filesystem and options to find the real "bootmenu" on.. for versions less than diablo it would be /dev/mtdblock4 for instance12:58
Stskeepsso you dont have to flash for each change12:58
GeneralAntillesliri, swap12:59
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RST38hand when it wears out?12:59
GAN800That'll be abour never.12:59
lirihow's that GAN800?13:00
roadiesok so I've got openvpn_2.0.2-2_arm.deb and attempting to extract it with dpkg but it needs an extraction directory.... is there a pseudo standard for what directories people use?  aka /usr/local/[package-name] or something13:00
liriwe know that reads and writes from/to flash wear it13:00
GAN800Sure, but flash is a lot more durable these daya13:00
qwerty12roadies, why would you want to extract it?13:01
GAN800and the swapiness is about as low as it can ger.13:01
GAN800s/ger/get/13:01
infobotGAN800 meant: and the swapiness is about as low as it can get.13:01
liriGAN800: and the 2gb sd card?13:01
GAN800What about it?13:02
liriGAN800: is it more durable than the 256mb flash or less durable?13:02
roadiesqwerty12: I'm following this road(ies) map:   http://maemo.org/community/wiki/installopenvpn/  but then again I'm a blind newbie here so I'm probably formatting my drive as we speak :-) *sign*13:02
GeneralAntillesWe're talking about two different things13:02
GeneralAntillesNevermind.13:02
GeneralAntillesYou usually don't use the built-in flash when you boot from SD.13:03
qwerty12roadies, the date on one of those files is 2005 :/. I'd just dpkg -i the openvpn file and then apt-get -f install13:03
liriGeneralAntilles: ahh?13:03
liriGeneralAntilles: I can use the entire 2gb sd card as the root partition and put swap on the built-in flash.13:04
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GeneralAntillesYou could make that work, yes.13:04
GeneralAntillesI'd just format the 2GB with two partitions, myself, though.13:05
chelliroadies: what are you trying to do? openvpn is available in extra(-devel)13:05
liriI haven't done anything yet, I currently have the root partition on the 256mb flash and I'd like to 1. clone it cause I need more space and 2. put a swap file/partition as I read in ITT that it's an incredible improvement13:06
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roadiesqwerty12:  mikkov_ gave me a URL with a file data 2008, I'm just using the URL I gave you as a HOWTO13:07
chelliroadies: i believe this howto is very, very muc outdated13:08
roadieschelli:  I configed (at least I think) App Manager with the respositry.maemo.com/extra-devel URL but it doesnt see it13:08
chelliroadies: which device and which ITOS do you have?13:08
qwerty12roadies, my point is that the wiki page is old13:08
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roadieschelli:  n810, with the latest OS (as of yeasterday), qwerty12: I agree very old, thanks13:09
liriwould putting the root and swap on the 2gb sd card wear it out? (btw, if it got wore out, could it be replaced with a new one?)13:10
chelliroadies: respositry.maemo.com/extra-devel is wrong, it sould be repository.maemo.org/extras-devel13:10
chelliroadies: openvpn is definetly available in the extras-devel-repository for diablo, because i uploaded it there last week ;-)13:11
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roadieschelli:  totally agree, I have that - missed type in my last chat to U13:11
roadieschellI;  OK let me check the App Man config again13:12
chelliroadies: can you start xterm and give me the output of "apt-cache policy openvpn" ?13:13
lcukcrashanddie, ping back13:14
roadieschelli:  per your request Nokia-N810-23-14:/media/mmc1# apt-cache policy openvpn W: Unable to locate package openvpn13:15
chelliok, then extras-devel is really missing13:15
roadieschelli:  App Man is telling me refresh failed... I'm rechecking the URL again...so fair I just dont see a spelling problem with it13:17
GAN800URL: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel13:18
GAN800Components: free non-free13:18
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Stskeepsqwerty12: i've put my proposal up in Alternatives on ITT if you want to comment/discuss :)13:19
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qwerty12Stskeeps, cool, I'll start reading :)13:19
crashanddielcuk, counter back ping13:19
lcuk:D heh13:19
lcuktheres a mail in the post to you13:20
crashanddie:D13:20
* crashanddie huggles lcuk13:20
lcukdont get excited, it says ".|.." :D13:21
TTilusshould n810 be able to retain time and date when it runs out of battery?  mine has a strantge habit of showing estimated 10 d of battery (when on stand-by) and after couple of days i find it dead and need to recharge before i get it to boot.  and when it does boot it has lost date13:21
GAN800TTilus, plug the damn thing in. . . .13:21
lcukTTilus, are you sure you are not losing time through copious amounts of booze?13:22
GAN800and, yes, it has a backup battery.13:22
* TTilus has never been boozing, believe me or not :D13:22
lcukTTilus, wormhole?13:22
TTilushow often do you _really_ need to recharge13:22
TTilusif you aren't using it13:23
lcukif on wifi quite often13:23
GAN800Depends significantly on your usage.13:23
* Stskeeps would love fuel cell for his n800.13:23
lcuknot on wifi if theres nothing attempting to do stuff, it can last ages13:23
GAN800just plug it in at night13:23
GAN800it wont kill you.13:23
lcuki plug it in when im workin on it near the ocmputer, otherwise its off13:23
lcukits a fun game playing the "has my 810 managed to get through the night or did it die in its sleep"13:23
TTilushaa, it could be wifi13:23
GAN800lcuk, get a real AP. :/13:24
lcukno wifi at all - i disconnect a few seconds after moving away from computer13:24
qwerty12My N800 dies each night in offline mode. I have too much programs killing the CPU :/13:24
lcukqwerty12, thats because it doesnt like the south13:25
lcukisntall "northern grit" and it will survive13:25
roadieschellI:  as the song goes... "I think he's got it" !  I had "user" for the Catalogue Component and it should be "free non-free".... I'm so proud of myself ..... newbie talk here :-)13:25
chelli:)13:25
qwerty12lcuk, I broke my charger in the north. you people have dodgy regulations :p13:25
lcuk:D13:26
TTilusso turning autoconnect wifi off should extend battery life?13:26
TTiluswhat other tips?13:26
roadieschillie:  ahhhh now my update windows is chirping at me relentless oh the price of fame ;-)13:26
TTiluslcuk: when you have your n810 dead, does it loose datE?13:26
GAN800plug it in13:27
lcukTTilus, when on battery dim the screen as much as practical13:27
TTilus(and please no jokes about dating just now)13:27
TTiluslcuk: already doing it13:27
lcukno point in sitting on max brightness all day when half will suffice13:27
lcukback ater13:27
TTiluslcuk: i'm on lowest possible all the time  ;)13:27
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TTilusGAN800: i just dont have the possibility always13:28
GAN800Good, you don't need it always13:29
TTilusGAN800: there are times when i'd like to survive 2-3 days without recharging, and i really don't need to use the device much, if at all13:29
qwerty12TTilus, 1. don't trust the battery applet. 2. try /mnt/initfs/usr/bin/retutime --rtc-from-system as root13:29
qwerty12retutime sets the hardware clock13:29
GAN800just plug it in at night.13:29
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TTilus"there are times when i'd like to survive 2-3 days"13:29
GAN800if you're not going to use it for a few days, plug it in.13:30
TTilusGAN800: during workdays its usually plugged, at least for a while13:30
TTilusGAN800: the thing is, i need it with me, i dont know ex ante if im gonna need it13:31
crashanddielcuk, improvement request: put the sketches in /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/liqsketches, or something, but I reflashed, and lost all my data13:31
crashanddies/but/cuz/13:31
infobotcrashanddie meant: lcuk, improvement request: put the sketches in /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/liqsketches, or something, cuz I reflashed, and lost all my data13:31
TTilusand i'd like to know how can i survive 2-3 days13:31
GAN800It should get 8-14 days on real standby13:31
TTilusthats what ive been told, but mine does not  :(13:32
timelyTTilus: personally, i travel w/ ~5 batteries for my n800s :)13:32
timelyplus spare "chargers"13:32
TTilusand it loses time when it dies13:32
crashanddieit does ?13:32
crashanddiewow13:32
GAN800Don't dodgy stuff that eats cpu, put it in offline mode.13:32
timelyyeah, offline mode + lock screen13:32
qwerty12Haha, nokia saw their mistake and should be renabling bluetooth audio service for the wimax tablet13:33
GAN800timely, you still running Bora?13:33
crashanddieTTilus, one thing you could do, is lock screen, like you always do, open an ssh session, and look at top to see if there's any app eating your CPU cycles13:33
TTilustimely: spare chargers?13:34
timelyGAN800: i haven't updated any of my devices13:34
GAN800lol13:34
GAN800So, uh, early-2007 OS2007?13:34
timelyTTilus: i have a 770, 3 n800s,13:35
GAN800How do you even use the thing?13:35
timelyGAN800: something like that13:35
timelyGAN800: when traveling i just need a basic web browser13:35
GAN800The early Bora releases are pretty much as crappy as possible.13:35
GAN800Opera? :P13:36
timelyTTilus: anyway, the devices i'm not using are just chargers :)13:36
timelyGAN800: one of them still has opera + microb(beta), and of course the 770 only has opera13:36
GAN800:shudder:13:36
GAN800~flashing13:36
infobotmethinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware13:36
GAN800^ hop to it. :P13:36
timelyyeah sure...13:37
TTilusGAN800: whats "dodgy stuff"?  ive installed maemomapper and ssh but nothing else13:37
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GAN800RSS home applet13:37
crashanddieTTilus, do as I tell ya13:37
timelyoh yeah, get rid of the rss home applet13:38
timelyand if you don't use chat, you should probably make sure its various pieces are disabled13:38
timelyand that it doesn't have an account configured13:38
GAN800I wish RSS didn't suck so much. I'd like to use it, but damn. . . .13:39
TTiluscrashanddie: you mean like ssh in n810 from another box or just open xterm and top?13:39
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crashanddieTTilus, ssh in the NIT from another box13:40
TTiluscrashanddie: or13:40
GAN800Doing it locally with spike the cpu13:40
TTilusdamn13:40
TTiluscrashanddie: ok13:40
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TTiluscrashanddie: in addition to the obvious top and sshd there are "OMAP McSPI/0" and "cx3110x" taking cpu, both under 1%13:43
crashanddiehmm13:43
crashanddieTTilus, do you have the wifi searching for networks all the time ?13:44
timelyalso, do you have a flaky wifi basestation at any of your primary locations?13:45
timelysome basestations are known to kill poor devices dead13:45
timelyamusingly the  basestation used by nokians in the helsinki area for adsl was one of those :)13:45
crashanddieheh13:45
crashanddiewell, "good for us"13:45
crashanddieat least they noticed it right away :D13:46
TTiluscrashanddie: should not have, how do i check that, like for real check?13:47
timelyi can't remember when that was noticed/fixed13:47
crashanddieclick on the wifi icon, then "Connectivity Settings", then "Connect automatically"13:47
timelyor how it was fixed13:47
lcukcrashanddie, i want the sketches (and everything else) to be in a database ideally.   first poweron should ask where13:48
crashanddieTTilus, I've set mine to "Always ask"13:48
crashanddielcuk, fair enough13:48
TTiluscrashanddie: mine too has "always ask" in connection settings13:48
crashanddiehmm13:49
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crashanddieTTilus, I don't know...13:49
crashanddieTTilus, I mean, your CPU usage seems AOK, as does your wifi behaviour, I haven't seen anything else that could eat up the battery so fast13:50
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crashanddiemaybe you just have a failing battery ?13:50
TTilusand its not only the battery but the fact that the damn thing has like total amnesia when battery dies, and it always first asks for time and date13:51
TTiluscrashanddie: hum, batteries are cheap, should trie with another one13:51
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roadiesmikko: GeneralAntillies and chelli:  Before I sign off here, thanks very much for allthe help14:01
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mikkov_roadies: use the link that I sent (to roadie ;))14:04
mikkov_roadies: sorry old post ;)14:04
chelliroadies: no problem :)14:05
roadiesmikkov_ not a problem... openvpn is downloaded via extras-devel.... building my cert's now..... thanks again14:05
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lirithe clone OS script for a 2gb sd card uses the scheme of 128 swap, 128 fat and 128 for root partition. wouldn't it be more useful to create a 256mb swap partition?14:14
liriI would think 128mb for swap would not be enough14:14
timelyum, how much ram do you have on your device?14:14
timelysome linux configurations can't really do particularly well w/ more swap than ram14:15
timelyand some user interfaces can't either14:15
liriit's an N810 so 128mb ram14:16
zap256 won't be useful14:16
liriso 128mb of swap is enough/ideal?14:17
zapI'd say it's more than needed14:17
zapbut not that much to worry14:17
lcukno, 640kb is enough, more is ideal14:17
lirilcuk: heh, well said14:17
liriok nice to know that 128mb would be ok14:18
liriI'm also wondering why is it required to have the 128mb fat for /media/mmc214:18
Stskeepsliri: maemo complains otherwise :P14:23
Stskeepsit can be less than 128 though14:23
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rm_yousuck, i have to ship my computer tomorrow >_>14:26
rm_youi'll be off and on for the next week as I travel14:26
* rm_you is annoyed at the distinct lack of teleportation related technology14:26
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* lcuk has a pair of time travelling trousers14:38
timelyhrm14:39
timelyanyone know why planet.maemo.org sends me to http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo// (note the second slash)14:39
liriStskeeps: ahh ok14:39
liriStskeeps: 128mb is fine :)14:40
liriStskeeps: I'll give that clone os script a try, hope it doesn't do any harm to the current running os :)14:40
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roadiesOK, your maemo developers are cool people !  I just downloaded the Apache webserver... what a cool thing, a web server on a tablet !  way way cool15:03
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rm_youwow, didn't know anyone had built apache for maemo <_<15:07
rm_youfigured it was a bit heavy, would prolly go with something like lighttpd15:07
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rm_youbbl15:22
Robot101rm_you: apache is smaller than gtk dude :P15:23
rm_youheh15:24
rm_youbut compared to lighttpd or something similar? <_<15:24
* rm_you sleeps15:24
Robot101aye its bigger, but it'll still work fine15:25
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GNUtonhi15:32
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RST38hrm_you: packrat is down again15:45
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crashanddieHi, can anyone check if they have gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg and if not, can they use the camera app ?16:45
crashanddiebecause I don't have it, and I can't access the camera anymore16:45
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qwerty12_N800crashanddie: which camera app?16:46
crashanddieerhm16:47
crashanddie"camera" ?16:47
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crashanddielol16:47
crashanddieyou know, the one to take pictures with ?16:47
qwerty12_N800hehe, i have "videocamera"16:47
mikkov_i have it and camera app works16:47
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: i don't have it and video camera works. run cameratest in a terminal16:49
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crashanddieyeah, I get insertion problems with gstreamer16:49
crashanddiehttp://slexy.org/raw/s21hs3Ma1u16:50
crashanddiealways good to see "cameratest[2563]: Should not come here --" in the debug output16:50
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: that's odd. i don't have the ffmpeg thing installed16:51
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, http://slexy.org/raw/s20qHMEiuE16:52
crashanddiedo you notice any difference with your NIT ?16:52
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qwerty12_N800crashanddie: http://slexy.org/view/s2u6Z8fDy916:53
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RST38h"On the internet and in small meeting rooms in Britain and the US, flat earth believers get together to challenge the 'conspiracy' that the Earth is round.'"16:56
RST38hMhm16:56
RST38hhttp://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/16:56
qwerty12_N800RST38h: i'd click but i fear that link is stuck in the 1920's16:57
lcukRST38h, :D are you gonna join us then16:58
RST38hno!16:59
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, I added some -extra gstreamer packages, but still same problem... Weird16:59
RST38h"What keeps the cylinder upright?" - their faq16:59
qwerty12_N800I knew a northerner would support that... :p, always backward16:59
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, so you believe that when you're on holiday ?16:59
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: :/16:59
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lcukif the world is a sphere how come its not difficult to walk northerly?   if we were round we would walk uphill17:01
* lcuk might actually register at htis forum17:01
crashanddieok... this is... bad...17:02
crashanddieI only found one reference to the error message I get..17:02
crashanddiehttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?format=multiple&id=211917:02
lcukjust reflash and put apps on one by one17:02
crashanddieAnd that's because the 770 doesn't have a hardware camera :/17:02
lcukits not major serious "the earth is round" type panid17:02
lcukc17:02
crashanddiethe earth isn't round17:03
lcukits "podgy" around the middle ;)17:05
RST38htry to argue with them that the earth is in fact concave17:06
RST38hwith sun and moon at the middle17:06
crashanddieif you want highly religious guy to believe in astronomy17:08
crashanddietell him the big bang *is* god, and that the whole universe comes from one central point, and that that point is god17:08
aquatix:)17:09
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crashanddieusually, it'll shut them up for a few minutes17:09
crashanddieenough to make a clean getaway17:09
aquatixghehehe17:09
crashanddietimeless || timely ! NEED YOU17:09
crashanddieoh, nevermind, /me reflashes17:10
RST38hcrash: it will not work17:10
crashanddieit won't ?17:10
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RST38hcrash: eventually they will find inconsistencies between this view and the bible and burn you at a stake17:11
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crashanddieah17:11
crashanddieI thought the reflashing wasn't going to work17:11
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crashanddieRST38h, yeah, may be so, but I'm a good runner, and I love a good fight :P17:11
RST38hthen just ask 'em why their drink faux human blood during their rites17:12
RST38hand eat faux human flesh too17:13
crashanddieit's not human17:13
crashanddiethat's the whole point17:13
crashanddieit's supposed to be divine17:13
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crashanddieand that's why they eat low end potato chips, and sub par quality wine17:14
crashanddieOK WTF17:14
crashanddieBootloader error log follows:17:14
crashanddie  EP0 in RX state, but no incoming packet17:14
crashanddie  Premature end of control transfer17:14
crashanddie*phew* reflash worked17:15
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lcukarghhhhhhhhhhh17:17
lcuki think i just lost the end of my elbow17:17
crashanddieouch17:17
crashanddiewhere is it ?17:17
lcuk~lart chair being closer to desk than usual17:17
* infobot makes a balloon animal out of chair being closer to desk than usual17:17
* qwerty12_N800 spits out evidence17:18
lcuki hope i didnt knock your teef out wiv my elbowe17:19
lcuk-e of course17:20
qwerty12_N800nah, typical northerner, nothing there17:20
lcukso many things to do, and all of them require brain effort17:22
RST38hcrash: This reminds me of a joke where a jew tells the seller "I am not asking you what this fish is made of, I am asking you how much it costs"17:22
crashanddielcuk, reflashed, no apps installed, camera still dead17:23
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lcukhow are you testing camera?17:23
crashanddieeither using liqbase, or by installing the camera app17:24
qwerty12_N800lcuk: follow those pdfs on repairing the camera physically :> :D17:24
crashanddieRST38h, yeah... I remember a variation of that... Some guy wants to buy flowers for a chick, goes down to a woman selling flowers "Good day to you sir, how much for 4 dozens of red roses ?" "$250" "No, erhm, I meant, how much time do they need to grow"17:25
lcuk"hardware maintenance is outside our contract, if the peripheral is not working on a clean install using standard nokia signed applications and nothing else then you are out of luck17:26
crashanddiethat's fucked up17:26
lcuki dunno whats up wiv ur camera though, especially just after a flash it should all be nice and work unless something else is working17:27
lcuksomething else is getting in the way rather17:27
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lcukdid you just reflash, install camera and test it17:28
crashanddieyup17:28
lcukremove meory cards etc?17:30
qwerty12_N800i dunno why rtcomm upgrade is fucking up: the version it wants is here : http://packages.collabora.co.uk/maemo/pool/user/t/telepathy-haze/17:30
crashanddielcuk...17:30
lcukmmm17:30
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: go a nokia authorised service center and tell them to run phoenix and choose the camera test17:30
RST38hmaybe it has not got indexed yet?17:31
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crashanddieanyone know where the camera is mounted in the fs ?17:31
qwerty12_N800mounted? tut tut, /dev/video017:32
crashanddienothing17:32
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qwerty12_N800crashanddie: it may have got disconnected inside, did your drop it?17:33
qwerty12_N800*you17:33
crashanddienot that I know of17:33
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qwerty12_N800RST38h: updated it myself with the deb and rtcomm 2.4 installed fine17:36
crashanddie:/17:36
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, what's that phoenix shit ?17:36
crashanddieand where the hell is there an authorised service center in SE london ?17:37
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: phoenix is an internal flasher for bb5 based products. i have a cracked copy but you need special nokia equipment to use it with an n8x0 :(17:38
crashanddieok17:39
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: nokia has a store locator on their site. my nearest one is in romford :/17:39
crashanddiehttp://www.apps.nokia.co.uk/clubnokiaservice/ :/17:40
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crashanddieshit17:43
crashanddieclosest is halfway to waterloo17:43
crashanddiephuket17:43
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lcukcrashanddie, many miles from you?17:47
crashanddiequite17:47
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t_s_oweird, if i use the power button to boot diablo while its turned of and charging i get a white screen. if i then hit the power button again i get the dialog way up in the upper right corner...17:50
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qwerty12_N800crashanddie: if you wanna have a go yourself, read original for the l1 + l2 and l3 + l4 n810 service guide17:52
Stskeepst_s_o: does the charger icon move?17:53
t_s_oyes17:53
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Stskeepspowerlaunch installed by chance?17:53
t_s_onope17:53
t_s_ostopped using it after i was told i could edit a file to get reboot in the native menu ;)17:53
qwerty12_N800yeah, systemui.xml17:54
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Stskeepsi should really just uninstall that too.. i have some many bloody problems with it17:55
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qwerty12Stskeeps, yeah, my alarms and lock on bootup wouldn't work with that. someone should point Austin Che to the rtcomm repo :/17:55
Stskeepspowerlaunch was good to get DSME info though17:56
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t_s_ohmm, seems the diablo kernel could support the huawei E220 3G modem. that is, if it has usbserial compiled in...17:57
qwerty12usbserial as module works fine17:58
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Stskeepsi'd kill for a 3g modem with internal battery so it didn't drain too much usb power18:00
Stskeeps:P18:00
t_s_oqwerty12: i should have guessed that someone had tried it ;)18:01
t_s_oStskeeps: thats known as a mobile phone :P18:02
Stskeepst_s_o: yeah.. but in smaller size - i don't need a screen or a UI or keyboard18:02
Stskeepsif nokia sold something like that as accesory to n8x0, they'd get rich18:03
Stskeeps:P18:03
Kegetyswell if you carry a phone anyway you might as well use that as the modem too18:03
t_s_ohmm, i know nokia have something like that but im not sure if its 3G enabled or have bluetooth...18:04
t_s_oor had, it seems to have dropped of their devices page (same page that still shows the 770 btw, weird)18:06
t_s_oah, it was older then i recalled, and not 3G enabled. and discontinued for that matter...18:07
pupniksomeone did pair a umts 3g modem with n800 and battery pack, iirc18:08
pupnikor maybe a 77018:08
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Proteous3g realy eats the juice18:31
ProteousI can keep my edge connection on all day, most phones will only run a UMTS connection for a few hours18:34
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ProteousproFontWindows is a cool font for irssi on the tablet18:36
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RST38hThe West Virginia DMV granted a religious exemption to a a small group of West Virginia eschatophobes, who fear that digital storage of their drivers license photos is setting up a "mark of the beast" scenario.19:07
RST38hSouth Windsor police arrested Almighty Supremebeing Allah Thursday night... Almighty Supremebeing Allah, who lives in West Hartford, was accused of cocaine possession with intent to sell.19:07
zapcrude but effective19:08
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RST38h"A police investigation into the sexual assault and death of several sheep has been hampered because their main suspect has a twin brother who could also be behind the attacks" due to identical DNA.19:10
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t_s_o:S19:10
qwerty12Some fucked people...19:11
t_s_oheh, something tells me the press loves to write about it...19:11
pupnikgood to know Proteous - i wasn't aware umts took so much juice19:12
pupnik< pondering dropping the dsl19:12
t_s_oim guessing its related to the frequency used. from what i understand, there are plans to move umts to the gsm bands at some point...19:13
t_s_odont know if there is any current phone that would support that tho...19:13
Cptnodegardsince this is the biggest collection of linux geeks in my vicinity ATM, does anyone have anythign bads to say about the acer aspire one/linpus lite?19:17
t_s_ocant say as i have yet to get my hands on one. but i tried the linpus lite live cd, and it could not figure out my ati hardware...19:19
StskeepsCptnodegard: i loathe any acer machinery.. they're bloody impossible19:20
Stskeeps:P19:20
Stskeepsalways had problem with their hardware19:20
Cptnodegardlol19:21
Cptnodegardwell hardware issues wont be...an issue...with the aa1 as its made for it19:21
* qwerty12 debates whether to put in the time to port the ck patches: http://members.optushome.com.au/ckolivas/kernel/19:24
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lbtqwerty12: hi - have a look at https://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting and see if I missed anything...19:33
lbtand I thought ck had stopped his kernel work?19:33
pupnikis linpus the worst distro name ever?19:33
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Stskeepsanything involving pus in it's name is bad19:34
Stskeeps(puss)19:34
lbtoh I don't know about *anything*19:34
qwerty12lbt: hi, You may want to make a note to remind the user to change MENU_2 in MENU_2_FBMODE="auto". rest seems fine.19:34
qwerty12lbt: yeah, but his patches for 2.6.21 still work19:35
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lbtChinook doesn't seem to want to boot from a Diablo initfs :(19:39
qwerty12I used an chinook initfs on a diablo rootfs. To force mce not to shutdown the device, I had to enable no-lifeguard-reset19:40
lbtgot the chinook fs mounted, init ran, the blue bar got 80% across - and then it freezes for 10secs and does an orderly shutdown19:40
qwerty12Of course, wifi didn't work in diablo with an chinook initfs19:40
lbtthat'd be OK - I just wanted to setup test environments19:41
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lbtcan I set no-lifeguard-reset using the cal-tool(?)19:43
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qwerty12no, flasher-3.0 only19:44
qwerty12cal-tool can set some values but no-lifeguard-reset isn't one of them19:44
lbt'k19:44
CptnodegardVeggen, you wouldnt happen to know how to get a norwegian KB to work with USB?19:45
lbtdo you think it is needed for the problem I described?19:45
qwerty12Cptnodegard: can't you just plug it in? I believe bluetooth keyboard settings in control panel lets you change layout of usb keyboard.19:45
t_s_ohmm, it seems there is a rtcomm update out...19:45
qwerty12lbt: it was for me19:45
qwerty12t_s_o: forced an update, still can't tell what is new :/19:46
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t_s_oseems its having trouble with haze...19:46
t_s_otelepathy-haze that is19:46
qwerty12I installed -haze manually: http://packages.collabora.co.uk/maemo/pool/user/t/telepathy-haze/19:47
qwerty12after that, update worked19:47
t_s_oheh, my collabora entry was still set to chinook, i wonder if that could have an effect19:49
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qwerty12I changed it to diablo, nothing changed19:50
Cptnodegardnice, worked, thanks qwerty12 :D19:50
t_s_ohmm, seems the chinook subdirs are set up different then the diablo one19:50
qwerty12Cptnodegard: cool :)19:50
t_s_odiablo only has user, not haze and others like chinook19:50
qwerty12Hmm, didn't see that, I'll add a duplicate entry for chinook19:51
RST38ht_s_o: Oh19:52
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t_s_oheh, going diablo and user made a libpurple update show up as well ;)19:53
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* qwerty12 is waiting for kernel with op_mode patch, rotation patch, brightness changing patch, 48Mhz mmc. japanese radio patch, musb fix patch to compile. I'll attack the ck patches tomorrow. 19:53
Cptnodegardhas ther ebeen a slution to the problem with USB kb dismount not re-emabling on screen kb?19:53
zapqwerty12: what is 'musb fix patch' ?19:54
qwerty12zap: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3026 - I believe you already commented on it. Nothing to do with usbnet :(19:54
qwerty12Cptnodegard: something about using gconf tool from personal menu to untick a value. I think its on planet maemo somewhere19:54
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t_s_oCptnodegard: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=163217&postcount=1719:55
qwerty12Typical, forget one #endif and the whole thing stops :/19:55
lbtqwerty12: so that didn't help - it just hung for longer unil I power cycled it...19:56
qwerty12:(19:56
lbt;(19:56
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t_s_oah, never mind. seems you had allready seen that thread, and your question about a solution was more a question about a final fix from nokia or similar19:57
Cptnodegardthank you qwerty12 and t_s_o! if i were to add a item to personal-launch with the command for enabling the KB, would that work?19:58
qwerty12Cptnodegard: yep, it should do. I know people use it with osso-statusbar-cpu fine19:58
t_s_othink so, yes. never tried as i use the graphical gconf editor to fix it if it happens :P19:58
qwerty12True, I use gconf-editor too :P19:59
t_s_obasically i have not seen it happen enough to warrant its own icon in launcher19:59
Cptnodegardit happens everytime if you use USB kb, at least with me20:00
qwerty12trickie: this would be a nice thing in community kernels: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/06/02/feel-the-power-of-usb-with-nokia-tablet/20:00
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trickieqwerty12: make a patch for me?20:01
Cptnodegarddo i have to check "run in terminal" then?20:01
Cptnodegardfor it to work20:02
trickieqwerty12: im lazy, don't have the sources atm20:02
qwerty12trickie: I can try, my diff skills are weird20:02
qwerty12Cptnodegard: shouldn't need to, gconftool doesn't require user input20:02
t_s_ohmm, a modest update as well. there goes the multiaccount gui i guess :S20:03
dannymhi :)20:03
qwerty12hello dannym20:03
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dannymqwerty12: ah, hi :)20:03
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t_s_oCptnodegard: if your using a usb keyboard, make sure to unplug the keyboard from the converter before you unplug that from the tablet20:04
dannymqwerty12: I was wondering, what's the difference between the "usb_modeswitch" you ported and the (Option) "rezero" program?20:04
trickieqwerty12: no worries, i can do it later20:04
dannymqwerty12: Is "usb_modeswitch" more generic or something?20:04
qwerty12trickie: sorry. last time I tried, I had a patch that wouldn't apply. :(20:05
qwerty12dannym: I think so, lemme see20:05
qwerty12"This utility works differently to the excellent usb_modeswitch, it supports only the Option devices and it will support multiple Option devices. "20:05
qwerty12t_s_o: I wouldn't update modest. It's the same version number.20:06
t_s_ohmm, ok? seems it found it impossible to update anyways...20:06
Cptnodegardwohoohohohohohoh it work s:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D thanks again people, youre lifesavers (actually $800 savers as i dont need a aspire one now)20:06
qwerty12Cptnodegard: lol, you were going to buy an aspire to use an usb keyboard? :D20:07
t_s_obah, i keep having chinook overlaps :S20:07
t_s_oi should really clean out my repo list20:07
GeneralAntilleslbt, == Section == is the top level section header, not = Section =20:08
dannymqwerty12: I see... hmm, might make sense to use usb_modeswitch then (and put it into a package of its own) rather than hacking up the new HSO debian package with rezero :)20:08
Cptnodegardqwerty12: no to get a working norwegian keyboard and not have to reboot the device to switch back. yes, i know, bad reason to spend that much money but ive made $1520 at work this work instead of taking my vacation so i want a need toy ragardless20:08
qwerty12Cptnodegard: Ah :)20:09
Cptnodegardwork = week20:09
dannymqwerty12: I registered garage project "modem" (and SVN directory).. do you want to put yuor "usb_modeswitch" there, too?20:09
lbtGeneralAntilles: OK20:09
dannymyour*20:09
t_s_oseems changing my modest repo from chinook to diablo made the modest update go away. guess its there for those that still want to use chinook20:09
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qwerty12dannym: sure, I can put usb_modeswitch there sometime. Do you think I should package it?20:09
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GeneralAntillesGb == Gigabits20:10
RST38hShould I install Collabora's version of Pidgin or should I stay away from the sucker?20:10
dannymqwerty12: yeah, it would be nice to eventually have everything in a nice normal Extras debian binary package... :)20:10
RST38hIt is 20+MB20:10
RST38hThe original one is just 5+MB20:10
dannymqwerty12: and I think since "usb_modeswitch" is pretty generic it should go into its own package (since otherwise there would be conflicts if multiple drivers tried to install the same file :D)20:11
qwerty12dannym: yeah :D20:11
qwerty12I'll see if debian carry a package first, save me time :P20:11
t_s_oah, i see now. as modest is part of the firmware now, there is no need for the modest repo outside of chinook. stupid me...20:12
qwerty12Ugh, I have to use such an ugly hack to unmount my mmc :(20:12
dannymdoes anyone else have trouble after doing "apt-get update" in scratchbox (chinook) ?20:13
lbtdannym: just recently - or ever?20:13
GeneralAntillesRST38h, Pidgin or rtcomm?20:13
dannymrecently...20:13
lbtlemmesee20:14
dannyma few days ago I updated (first time for a long time) and now I got a file fight between package "debianutils" and "passwd" for file "/usr/sbin/add-shell" ...20:15
dannym(or is there a "diablo" scratchbox repository? I'm not insisting on using "chinook" ;))20:15
dannym(and once there is any file conflict, apt-get seems to refuse to do anything until the conflict is fixed... :()20:16
RST38hGAN: Pidgin20:16
RST38hI installed new RTComm already20:16
lbtmine seems OK20:17
dannymlbt: what does "dpkg -S /usr/sbin/add-shell" say for your Scratchbox?20:17
qwerty12dannym: diablo sdk scratchbox: debianutils: /usr/sbin/add-shell20:18
lbtI think it would be nice to see a wiki page showing the various sources.list entries that should be setup for scratchboxes20:18
lbtdebianutils: /usr/sbin/add-shell20:18
lbt(CHINOOK_ARMEL btw)20:18
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qwerty12dannym: this will take some time. usb_modeswitch doesn't use makefile but "compile.sh" script. I will make a quick Makefile20:18
dannymqwerty12: hmm... what's the "sources.list" for diablo sdk scratchbox? last time I tried to put "diablo" there it said it didn't exist...20:19
lbtyeah - that's why a wiki page would be nice...20:19
lbtWTF is it this week20:20
qwerty12dannym: http://slexy.org/view/s2IPQ9vrlG20:20
dannymqwerty12: yeah, no hurry... as you can see my build env is botchered for some reason and so having a proper modem autocompilable driver package will take some time anyway :)20:21
qwerty12:)20:21
* qwerty12 steals lcuk's Makefile20:21
dannymhehehe20:21
* dannym steals qwery12's pastebin text and puts it on a new wiki page20:22
lcuk!oi20:22
qwerty12dannym: lol20:22
qwerty12lcuk: :p20:22
lcukthat make file has special sauce20:22
lbttoo late - it's GPL !20:23
lcukthanks for adding it qwerty1220:23
qwerty12lcuk: I'm ripping it out, all this program needs is gcc -l usb -o usb_modeswitch usb_modeswitch.c :P20:23
qwerty12lcuk: np :)20:23
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lcuklol lbt, qwerty12 has already added stuff20:23
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dannym<http://wiki.maemo.org/Scratchbox_Maemo_Repositories>20:34
qwerty12_N800dannym: "deb file:/home/*faheem*/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_4.1 diablo explicit" ;)20:35
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lbtI'm very close on this: https://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Multi-boot but I'm stuck. If anyone else cares about setting up a multiboot test environment then please take a look :)20:36
dannymqwerty12_N800: yeah, saw that just now ;) removing the line :)20:36
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dannymqwerty12_N800: thanks ^^20:36
qwerty12_N800dannym: np :)20:36
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zach_anyone know how to format an sd card?20:38
dannymzach_: um... no, it's not magnetic :) but you can create a new filesystem with "mkfs" on one of its partitions or something...20:39
dannym{/nitpicky}20:39
* dannym hides20:39
lbthttps://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card20:40
qwerty12_N800the file manager can do it, if you are formatting it to ext* then resort to the command line20:40
qwerty12_N800makefile variables are there to drive me crazy20:42
dannymqwerty12_N800: hehe, try MSVC nmake... you'll be ready to throw the computer out of the window in no time :->20:42
qwerty12_N800lol20:43
lcukyou need to undefine  NORTHERNGRIT before trying to deploy it.  infact, you could just use the southern_jessie target20:43
dannymoh great. I can't dist-upgrade before fixing the file fight either :(20:44
qwerty12_N800lcuk: at least in the south i'm prepared to use diablo_armel :p20:44
* lcuk is happy with his helicopter OS20:45
dannymlbt: What does your Scratchbox say about "dpkg -l passwd"?20:45
qwerty12_N800dannym: post your error messages20:45
lbtii  passwd                      4.0.3-31sarge5.osso8        change and administer password and group data20:46
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t_s_ohmm, seems that while the modest package has a slight number bump, i cant get it to update...20:46
qwerty12_N800lcuk: ... until it crashes20:46
dannymqwerty12_N800: <http://wiki.maemo.org/Scratchbox_Maemo_Repositories#Warning>20:46
t_s_ocrap, now i see why...20:47
t_s_ostupid me20:47
qwerty12_N800dannym: quick fix is coming up20:47
lcukqwerty12_N800, the only thing i can do to make it crash is code liqbase badly20:47
qwerty12_N800lcuk: i assume that's always happening?20:48
lcukheh, no20:48
dannymlbt: mine says "ii  passwd              4.0.3-31sarge5.osso change and administer password and group data"...20:48
dannymlbt: looks like it's cutting my field? or does it? *wonders*20:49
lcukdannym, you anret in sb then? just regular console?20:49
t_s_oheh, even using apt-get it didnt work. conflict with modest-l10n20:49
dannymlcuk: in the console in Scratchbox. My host system is Gentoo so I can't really confuse them ;)20:50
lcukdannym, dont worry its my eyes that need upgrading20:50
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qwerty12_N800dannym: apt-get install passwd; dpkg -i --force-all /var/cache/apt/archives/passwd_1%3a4.0.3-31sarge5.osso7_i386.deb; apt-get install --reinstall debianutils20:50
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qwerty12_N800you may need to do dpkg -i --force-all /var/cache/apt/archives/debianutils<tab> after the --REINSTALL20:51
qwerty12_N800*--reinstall20:51
qwerty12_N800~lart hildon-input-method20:52
* infobot strangles hildon-input-method with a 9-pole serial cable20:52
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t_s_o:P20:53
RST38hagain, again please!20:54
RST38huntil it is dead!20:54
lcukwont that raise neck_break() events?20:55
dannymhehehe20:55
RST38hlcuk: events be damned20:56
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zach_hmm "apt-get install e2fsprogs"..it says it may be obsolete or availiable from another source21:00
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qwerty12_N800dannym: got the Makefile sorted. just need to fix the install: section and remove the northerner stuff :p21:01
dannymqwerty12_N800: cool :)21:02
dannym(*mumbles* what's a northerner?)21:03
qwerty12_N800dannym: lcuk :D21:03
lbthe's not alone you know21:04
lbtdamned pansy suverners21:04
dannymweeeird :)21:06
qwerty12_N800yep they are :p21:06
* qwerty12_N800 pretends i'm not from w.yorkshire21:06
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* dannym pretends he's not from Wien :)21:08
qwerty12_N800Thats Vienna right?21:09
qwerty12_N800well in English afaik21:09
RST38hShould be  Vienna...21:09
dannymqwerty12_N800: yep :) although I usually don't say that anymore because there's a "Vienna" in the US or something ;)21:09
dannymqwerty12_N800: found out my typing "Vienna" in Google Maps and it telling me like 8013km... "swim across the atlantic" ;)21:10
RST38hWashington DC suburb21:10
qwerty12_N800dannym: :), lol21:10
RST38hbeen there21:10
dannymby*21:10
dannymRST38h: oic :)21:11
pupnikdannym: do you like Wien?  anything to recommend it as a place to live?21:11
* pupnik is considering moving there21:11
dannympupnik: depends on the district... it's huge... (overall I like it)21:12
pupniki had a chance to see the huge t-systems building, but not much else21:13
* RST38h just remembers marzipan chocolate bars from his short visit to Wien airport21:13
RST38hThose were good though =)21:13
dannympupnik: didn't see the Prater yet? :) The original rollercoaster rides and other puke-inducing (the good kind) attractions ... check it out ;)21:15
zach_Is it possible to format an sd card via usb on a desktop from a n800?21:16
dannymzach_: you mean the SD card is in the N800 and the N800 is in device mode, connected to the PC... and you want the PC to "format" it?21:17
zach_i mounted my n800 on my desktop...umounted and did "mkdosfs /dev/sdcard"21:17
zach_on my desktop21:18
dannymzach_: yeah, should work.21:18
zach_it did...it deleted my files and shows up as "vfat"21:18
dannymzach_: (I never tried without partitions btw)21:18
zach_but...21:18
* qwerty12_N800 will dh_make usb_modeswitch tomorrow, and if it works, send off the Makefile to the original author21:19
zach_when the sd card is mounted on my n800..(it is 2gb)..it shows up as 120mb and none of my files21:19
zach_are shown on it21:19
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dannymzach_: weird... is it an SDHC card? What does "dmesg" say it found?21:20
dannymzach_: (on the N800)21:20
zach_no not a sdhc..just a little sd micro21:20
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* dannym has a 2GB Kingston RS-MMC with an adapter next to the N800 battery, works fine (all 2GB) with both Chinook and Diablo21:24
zach_well i cloned os2008 on mine so that i could install KDE21:25
* qwerty12_N800 hopes uk police broadcast on japanese fm radio frequencies21:26
dannymzach_: check "dmesg" output whether it's already misdetecting the device itself or whether it's messing up the filesystem.21:27
dannympupnik: Wien has a lot of trees and clean water (very clean water) and as such doesn't feel as "concrete desert" as, say, [parts of] Munich...21:27
dannympupnik: note that a lot of buildings are old (as in OOOLD) so be careful when choosing a residence :D21:28
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zach_dannym, dmesg doesn't anything about it o.o21:31
zach_well21:31
zach_a little bit but nothing useful21:31
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dannymzach_: then check /sys/block/<whatever_device_it_is>/size21:32
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qwerty12_N800http://sds.hpvisualradio.com/sdsweb/Search.do - where the nokia fmradio gets its channel list from21:35
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qwerty12_N800ok, now i know my router isn't dodgy in regards to ssh. i just tried sshing into my account at a webhost and it stays stuck forever after entering the password. on my desktop, sshing there works. when i ssh to my tablet from my desktop, it gets stuck on the password21:54
lbtssh -vvv <host>21:56
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qwerty12_N800ta, after entering password: http://slexy.org/view/s2PYQ4piBh21:58
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qwerty12_N800now i'm getting debug2: client_check_window_change: changed and debug2: channel 0: request window-change confirm 0 repeatedly22:01
lbtyou get : debug2: channel 0: request shell confirm 022:01
lbton success I get: debug2: channel 0: request shell confirm 122:01
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lbtmy last few debugs b4 sucess http://slexy.org/view/s20gOHRdS622:02
qwerty12_N800thanks22:02
lbtlike this : http://slexy.org/view/s20jtIngWg22:03
lbtI get that when I resize the 'xterm' window22:03
lbtit stops when I stop resizing22:04
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qwerty12_N800i think those resizing messages may be when hildon-input-method pops up. but it gives up after: debug2: channel 0: open confirm rwindow 0 rmax 3276822:07
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lbthttp://www.networksecurityarchive.org/html/Secure-Shell/2007-01/msg00038.html22:12
lbtrunning out of ptys?22:12
lbtthat's a kernel config that I've been bitten on b422:13
qwerty12_N800it shouldn't be. i've googled and it seems to be an dns error as sshing in from the tablet to 127.0.0.1 works (although not from my computer to tablet)22:14
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acydlordholy snap, a Ti flash is like $16022:16
acydlordflask^22:16
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dannymok, dist-upgraded to Diablo... and now:22:22
dannymdpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/passwd_1%3a4.0.3-31sarge5.osso8_i386.deb (--unpack):22:22
dannym trying to overwrite `/usr/sbin/remove-shell', which is also in package debianutils22:22
dannymhow... new... *bangs head on keyboard*22:23
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dannym(fixed it the same way as before :))22:24
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liriwhat key is to be pressed and hold to access the boot menu? it's running so fast I couldn't read it22:29
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qwerty12_N800openssh is still pissing me around. i've disabled dnsmasq to no avail. i'll build a proper openssh from cvs tommorow22:37
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GeneralAntillesliri, the menu key22:54
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liriGeneralAntilles: thanks, got it :)23:05
liriGeneralAntilles: I've set with cal-tool ask:mmc2 although I want to remove the boot menu itself (it's there for 30 seconds and that's too long for  me) but leave the default mmc2 root partition23:06
liriGeneralAntilles: any pointers on that?23:06
Cptnodegarddoes abiword read .doc?23:06
dannymCptnodegard: depends on which ".doc". There are about 5 formats (that I know) that have ".doc" as file name ending.23:07
dannymCptnodegard: try "file -bi whatever.doc" and see what it says :)23:08
liriis it just required to change the timeout option in /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.sh ?23:08
liriahh, it's a read-only filesystem too23:09
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t_s_oso, given the new modest package for chinook, is there some updates for diablo right around the corner?23:11
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RST38bisyou should ask nokia that23:13
liriok got that boot menu resolved23:13
t_s_oRST38bis: heh, true23:13
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RST38bislast thing i know, they have blamed modest crashes and hangups on a kernel problem23:15
Cptnodegarddannym, whatever word 2003 spits out by default.23:15
StskeepsRST38bis: is Modest like heavily threaded or something?23:16
RST38bisyep23:16
dannymCptnodegard: I've no idea, I'm afraid... try it :)23:16
RST38bisusing futexes too23:16
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Cptnodegardjust did, just got a lot of ?????????'s23:17
Stskeepswhat happened to good old single threaded programs and poll()..23:17
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Stskeepsafter using thunderbird and modest for a bit, i feel like going back to using mutt23:17
RST38bisi made a suggestion to use software semaphores or some other mechanism and got brushed off23:17
t_s_oStskeeps: im tempted to reply that they where pushed out to pasture...23:18
RST38bisand futexes are not properly implemented on arm23:18
Stskeepsah23:20
Stskeepsand yeah, why not just use pthread semaphores :P23:21
Stskeepswhich reminds me.. where the hell is my pthreads book23:21
Stskeepsah, there23:22
Stskeeps:P23:22
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liriI previously saw that the N810 detected one of my laptop shares on the network, I think in the File Manager but I can't find it again23:26
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zaphmm... just noticed that diablo/control in kernel source packags says "Flashable Linux kernel for RX-34, RX-44, RX-48 hardware"23:27
zapbah, debian/control not diablo/control :)23:28
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dannymfinally, after 2 days and about 200 commands, "cdbs" is installed and I can use "dpkg-buildpackage". phiiew..23:35
Stskeepsow, isaac hayes/Chef died :(23:35
dannymthanks lbt, qwerty12, lcuk :)23:36
* dannym will try to get some sleep now for a change :)23:36
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zapcdbs rulez23:38
zapwas it any more complex than just apt-get install cdbs?23:39
dannymzap: yeah, Scratchbox decided to bork on me.23:39
dannymzap: see <http://wiki.maemo.org/Scratchbox_Maemo_Repositories>23:39
dannymoh well, at least I have Diablo on Scratchbox now :)23:39
dannymzap: and I reinstalled the devkits, including a 300MB or something doctools devkit (for "xsltproc") via a 12KByte/sec line for the rest of MUD to work.23:41
dannymzap: almost painful... ;)23:41
zapoh yes :)23:41
zaplots of fun23:41
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GAN800liri, bootmenu.conf23:42
dannymzap: I have to see the positive side, at least I didn't have to refetch the rest of Scratchbox... :->23:43
GAN800Just set the timeout to zero23:43
GAN800Refer to the README23:43
liriGAN800: thanks I already got it resolved with the command option23:43
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zapAnybody knows how I can find out the version of a certain installed package?23:59
zapI need the "Version:" field of the "dpkg -s" output23:59

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