IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-08-02

irqwhat does advanced backlight do?00:00
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camdenhello00:01
jottirq: provide more brightness levels, merges with the volume slider and adds rotation support if you have installed the right kernel + xserver.00:01
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jott(you also get one more slot free in your statusbar with it as you don't need brightness AND volume up there)00:02
irqis there an easy way to replace busybox with real versions of all the tools it provides - including bash?00:02
irqlast time i tried, well, it ended badly. heh00:03
jottno00:03
jott(as in "no easy way")00:03
qwerty12_N800bash is easy, the rest, not so easy00:03
jottyeah standalone bash can be installed without big problems.00:03
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GNUtonHi there00:05
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GNUtonHi jott!00:05
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jottGNUton: hello00:08
jottGNUton: still no luck with the packages :(00:08
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GNUtonjott: yes :( it´s not the lucky day for me... not yet..00:09
jottGNUton: X-Fade will take care of this.00:10
jottGNUton: any plans on moving to qt 4.4.1? ;)00:11
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zapSomething happened with the extras autobuilder?00:12
zapI uploaded three packages, they built fine, but I don'00:13
zapdon't see them in extras-devel00:13
jottmaybe because the hdd is full?! :P00:13
GNUtonjot: not yet. Probably after the akademy00:13
qwerty12_N800oh crap, i must have uploaded my deb with porn to extras-devel00:14
zapjott: that's serious?00:15
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jottzap: yes.00:16
zapah ok, I suppose Nokia' top management now looks where to get $200 for an extra 1Tb hdd...00:16
jottlook at the last lines: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/qt4-x11_4.4.0-2maemo0/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt00:16
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jott(i won't say that this is the cause of *your* problem, but it's entirely possible :)00:17
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zapdefinitely00:18
zapbut I could swear I've seen the ready .debs00:18
jottyeah who knows what happens with them next ;)00:19
zaphttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/zip3_3.0-1maemo1/00:19
GNUtonqwerty12_N800: what is the deb to download? :P00:19
zapthe logs says its allright00:19
zapbut there's no package in extras-devel00:20
qwerty12_N800GNUton: Sorry, you are too young to download :p00:20
GNUtonqwerty12_N800: :(00:20
jottzap: X-Fade is already out enjoying his earned weekend. So probably no fix until tomorrow...00:21
zapisn't tomorrow a weekend as well?00:21
jottyeah well, but x-fade is also around on weekends - flexible working hours, you know?00:22
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zappoor X-Fade00:23
camdenI'm having some trouble with maemo mapper: whenever I enter the program and enable gps, the unit reports "Searching for GPS receiver" and never even starts trying to get a fix. it was working this morning, and I can't think of anything I changed. any ideas?00:25
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jottcamden: with a n810 or external gps?00:26
camdensorry n810 diablo00:26
zapcamden: thats normal, you have to start the Mapper application first00:26
zapget a fix in it, and then start Maemo Mapper00:26
zapI mean, start the Nokia supplied Map application00:26
jotthm i also get a fix without "map"...00:26
camdenit was working this morning without map00:26
zapI often don't00:26
zapyes, sometimes it works00:27
zapbut for me most of the time it doesn't00:27
irq[when people talk about the diablo kernel with 'high speed' patch, what does 'high speed' mean? faster SD access?00:27
zapyes00:27
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zapfaster SD bus freq00:27
jottcamden: the n810sometimes .. well does not like gps ..00:27
camdenI mean, it's always worked without running map first, it may not have been able to find a fix, but it would find the reciever.00:27
camdenreceiver, even00:27
irqzap: why isn't the stock kernel like that?00:27
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zapirq: because thats non-standard, I believe00:27
jottcamden: maybe agps data is broken?00:28
irqzap: against the SD spec?00:28
qwerty12_N800it's unsupported by ti00:28
irqah00:28
zapirq: I'm not sure, its just my guess00:28
jottcamden: and sometimes the n810 gps really does not like to get a fix...00:28
camdenjott: how could I check/repair00:28
irqhello, qwerty12. i saw a patch with your name on it also. what does your patch do?00:28
camdenwell bear in mind, it's not getting a fix that I'm having trouble with, it's finding the reciever itself.00:28
zapcamden: does the GPS icon appear for a short time, then disappear?00:28
jottcamden: have you tried to reboot? ;)00:29
camdenyeah kinda. says searching for gps reciever for a while, then the icon disappears and comes back00:29
camdenaye00:29
camdenseveral reboots00:29
zapthats exactly my case00:29
zapMap fixes it00:29
camdenmap wasn't working either! I will try again tho00:29
jottstrange, never happened here. try zaps idea.00:29
qwerty12_N800irq: hi. hmm, i don't really make patches. i sometimes "port" a few, or just apply other peoples patches into one kernel. are you talking about android patch?00:30
camdendo you have to have a data connection for gps do work?00:31
qwerty12_N800arrgh, someone should point austin che to the old mce source so he shoves in alarm support into powerlaunch00:32
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jottcamden: only for fetching data from the supl server for agps.00:33
camdenzap: well, I pulled up map and it was able to start trying to get a fix, but then when I closed map and went back to mapper I get the same problem00:33
camdenjott: and is agps the default mode?00:33
jottcamden: hm, good question. i think only after installing supld (or agps-ui).00:34
jottbut tbh, you problem does not really sound like agps..00:34
zapcamden: thats because you closed the Map application00:35
zapcamden: start maemo mapper *before* closing Map00:35
jottzap: any idea why this is necessary?00:35
zapwait a little, and only after close it, or you may leave both running00:35
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camdenhmm00:36
zapjott: no idea, but this trick saved my ass a lot of times00:36
camdenI will try that.00:37
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camdeneffing wierd.00:39
camdenzap's trick worked.00:39
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zapsum born gud, sum born evil, and sum born lucky00:40
camdenok well with that apparently solved, I have a completely unrelated question: was it just me or is android still basically useless? I had no wifi action at all so I couldn't even use the maps or browser.00:40
jottcamden: the hacked android is ancient anyway.00:41
zapif it would be useful, would Google give it away?00:41
* jott never understood the big fuss about it :/00:41
qwerty12_N800android on n8x0 sucks00:41
camdenqwerty12_N800: that was my experience, but I thought I read about others for whom wifi was working among other things00:42
jottcamden: you have to be connected before starting android00:42
zapqwerty12_N800: the middle two words are excessive00:42
camdenoic00:42
camdenwell, it'll be interesting to see how it looks in another six months.00:43
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qwerty12_N800camden: i'm the person who put the time into making it run on diablo and tbh after i got the kernel  working, i saw nothing great00:43
BlafaselOkay, I'd like to do the most trivial and first step for mz garage contribution(s): I need a library in a newer version, it builds fine locally (well, with dpkg-buildpackge -d so far, I'd add a patch to fix the dependencies). Do I understand it correctly that I'd need to apply for an autobuilder account? Wiki, Uploading_to_Extras?00:44
zapyep00:44
camdenqwerty12_N800: I saw that it was you who did that work.00:45
camdenthanks for that, btw00:45
Blafaselzap: Thanks.00:45
qwerty12_N800camden: hehe, real work was done by elinux + androidonn8x0 team. shame on them for tying the patch to chinook though...00:46
RST38bishehe, microb is dead again00:47
RST38bissomehow this did not happen in chinook00:47
qwerty12_N800browserd00:47
qwerty12_N800pos00:47
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RST38bisyep00:48
RST38bisevery time it meets a piece of js, it goes into cardiac arrest00:49
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qwerty12_N800What pisses me off, is that it's pretty much pointless. for example, i still can't close the browser window and leave a download running. still, wget does a nice job...00:49
RST38bisit is supposed to speed up browser startup00:50
RST38bisdoes not for me00:50
qwerty12_N800it sure as hell doesn't for me00:50
qwerty12_N800i read it's for nokia to provide web related services outside of the browser. if that is true, i have yet to see an app from nokia that does that00:51
qwerty12_N800icd2 + browserd both suck00:51
BlafaselIs the browserd open source?00:53
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qwerty12_N800i'm 80% sure it's not00:54
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qwerty12_N800rule of thumb, if it's a big component and made by nokia, assume it's closed source00:54
RST38biswhine about it to timeless00:54
Blafaselqwerty12_N800: If you would attend the summit and would be in a legal drinking age that comment would've earned you a beer. ;)00:55
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qwerty12_N800Blafasel: haha, thanks anyway00:56
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BlafaselBut - beer's an aquired taste afaik anyway, so start with it before you are allowed to drink it to like it. *hides*00:57
qwerty12_N800haha, my parents would beat me00:57
BlafaselPoint them in my general direction and rely on the weight of germans reputation in the beer field.. Well, better don't.00:58
RST38bistell them that it is either a pub or a bordello - surely they will make the right choice!01:01
crashanddie__qwerty12_N800, ordering pizza on the net... Orgasmic01:01
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qwerty12_N800crashanddie__: yum, been a long while since i had dominoes... although, pizza hut had a visit from me a few weeks ago :D01:03
crashanddie__qwerty12_N800, was pHut...01:03
qwerty12_N800cool01:03
ProteousI don't realy call that stuff pizza01:04
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crashanddie__well01:04
crashanddie__it's ingredients on a circle of dough01:04
RST38bisit is no pizza01:04
qwerty12_N800that video of the guy ordering pizza from the command line gets me laughing01:04
Proteousnot to say that it isn't good sometimes, I gust think it tarnishes thr pizza name01:04
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crashanddie__"Flat baked dough covered with a combination of meats, vegetables, cheese and tomato sauce." ""Open-faced pie made with yeast dough topped with savory toppings, originally from Naples."01:05
crashanddie__I'm sorry, but that is exactly what I got01:05
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crashanddie__well, not from Naples, obviously01:05
Proteouslol01:06
crashanddie__anyway, bbl01:06
ProteousI guess technicaly what they put on there is meat and veg, although you don't want to go lloking into what patr of the garden/cow it comes from01:07
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Blafaselqwerty12_N800: Mind to share the video or some good keywords for google_01:07
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Proteoustyping fast on this n810 keyboard is a bit error prone with my fingers01:08
t_s_ohmm, now i got reminded of a old disney comic where goofy ordered a pizza by fax...01:08
RST38bisthe words you all are looking for is a 'round piece of shit'01:08
t_s_othe insane thing is that he actually got it, but with the wrong topping ;)01:08
BlafaselRST38bis: With a cheesy crust!01:08
RST38bissometimes.01:08
qwerty12_N800Blafasel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7pPajOvQGo01:08
qwerty12_N800Not sure if it's the same vid, but the same program01:10
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ProteousI can order pizza from my hacked apple tv01:10
BlafaselThat's insane ;)01:11
qwerty12_N800Haha, nice01:11
t_s_ohmm, now to hack it to work with peppes here in norway ;)01:11
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RST38bissleep time.01:14
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t_s_ohmm, sounds like an idea. i have the complete ringworld on audio now so maybe i should put my N800 to good use ;)01:21
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BinkyHiii!!01:24
* Binky had a cold receivement.01:27
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BlafaselJust being curious here: The garage admins are community guys, right? Or Nokia staff?01:30
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* flo_lap is not working for Nokia and is admin if he uses the right mechine 01:32
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BinkyI'd like someone to answer... Anyone uses minimo?01:33
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johnxBinky, not many I think. I don't01:35
Binkyjohnx,  I'd want an alternative to opera, but microb sucks unless it's on os2008.01:36
johnxminimo is much worse01:37
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johnxmaybe look at webkit/midori...01:37
BinkyDon't know about it01:37
GNUtonnight01:37
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BinkyCan i find it with 'Webkit maemo' name?01:38
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johnxprobably not01:40
johnxsearch midori maemo01:40
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Binkyjohnx, thank you01:41
johnxif you're on os2007 though, you might need to tweak the source code a little before it builds01:42
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BinkyI'm on os2006 -_-U01:43
johnxwell, I wish you the best of luck then...01:44
johnxbut I think most development is centered around OS2008 these days01:44
BinkyYup, but i hate HE and I have N80001:44
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johnxhmm, now I'm confused...You have a 770 and an N800 or what?01:46
qwerty12_N800But face it, you aren't going to get the latest, best apps on OS2006.01:47
Binkyjohnx, only 77001:50
johnxaaah, you just said you have n800 :)01:51
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Binkyqwerty12_N800, but i can get stability and speedness01:51
Binkyjohnx, ooooohhh, sorry! my fault! lol01:52
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* qwerty12_N800 would lose some stability for newer apps. i guess it's easy for me to say that though01:53
Binkyqwerty12_N800, SOME stability. but have the device rebooting every hour is not that great01:55
qwerty12_N800ouch. is it a common problem?01:56
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Binkyqwerty12_N800, yess, but i'm going to run os2007he from mmc and see if i can handle it01:59
BinkyBye01:59
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qwerty12_N800~lart bzip202:00
* infobot takes a big bite out of bzip2's jugular vein02:00
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Blafaselqwerty12_N800: Why's that?02:01
qwerty12_N800Taking ages to extract. Then again, it could be blamed on the tablet.02:03
BlafaselRight. bzip is much more cpu bound from my experience, compared to zip stuff..02:06
BlafaselBut leads to better compression most of the time as well. On a tablet I'd probably sacrifice the space gain for faster decompression/compression.02:06
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qwerty12_N800Yeah. It's been running for 30 minutes now. Still, 400MB to go...02:08
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nomisis the source for the ilbc-plugin for gstreamer available?02:23
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jga23anybody got an example of how to use gstreamer with python?02:25
jga23I've got it working on my desktop, but not on the tablet02:25
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BlafaselWho's Niels in here?02:30
brontideGot it... took a little fighting but I was able to record a screencast.  Now I just have to see if I can clean it up http://www.rit.albany.edu/~ew2193/test.html02:30
brontideCould be handy for Summit/Training stuff02:30
crashanddie__Blafasel, that would be X-Fade02:30
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Blafaselbrontide: Cool02:31
BlafaselX-Fade: You're the guy sending out answers to the "I want upload access to extras" mails?02:32
jottBlafasel: yes, he is (one of them?).02:33
Blafaseljott: I just ask because niels@... was trying to send me a mail an hour ago and was stopped by my greylisting. Now I'm seeing no further tries. I wonder if this is a permanent problem now or if the retry timeout is just higher02:34
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angel_Hey, i am trying to find a link which could tell me how to flash my nokia n810 in R&D mode02:57
angel_can anyone help?02:57
summatusmentiswhat do you mean?02:57
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summatusmentisit's really straightforward. Have you ever flashed before?02:57
angel_i need to flash my nokia n810.. i dont know how to do it02:57
angel_ya once long back02:57
angel_i need the R&D mode02:57
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nomisjga23: there is a python gstreamer example at http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_camera_api_bora.html , I'd guess that it does not have changed that much to Diablo.02:58
summatusmentisangel_: it's part of flasher02:58
angel_i downloaded the flasher02:59
angel_i have the flasher 3.002:59
jga23nomis: do you know of an example for playing audio?02:59
qwerty12_N800flasher-3.0 --help02:59
angel_sudo ./flasher-3.0 --enable-rd-mode -R02:59
angel_is that wat i need to do?03:00
qwerty12_N800yeah, should do it03:00
nomisjga23: no, but you can probably follow the C-example for playing audio and translate it to python.03:00
angel_  ./flasher-3.0 -F RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R03:00
angel_then this?03:00
jga23ahh, I figured it out, for some reason gstreamer isn't working with http:// addresses03:01
jga23only file://03:01
nomisjga23: what source-element did you use?03:02
jga23its my local squeezecenter stream.mp303:02
nomisjga23: I mean the source-gstreamer-element03:03
jga23oh, I just initialized gst with gst.parse_launch("playbin name=sink")03:03
jga23and then set_property("uri", "http:....")03:04
jga23it worked with file://, but not http://03:04
nomisah. Ok, no idea then.03:05
BlafaselX-Fade was based in Europe as well, right? So I'll try to catch him tomorrow or something.03:08
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qwerty12_N800Yeah, The Netherlands afaik.03:10
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BlafaselThanks03:11
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pupnikContext, a European business and consumer technology research firm has just reported that pre-installed Linux was sold on 2.8% of all PCs bought in the UK in June 2008. Doesn't sound like much? In January 2007, desktop Linux's marketshare was 0.1%.  http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_has_serious_plans_to_do_away_with_windows03:26
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dick-richardsonis there a way to set a global proxy for all connections?03:50
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irqhey04:15
irqwhere can i get xmodmap for my n810?04:15
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irqanyone?04:18
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irqplz? £:)04:23
trevorhow do you connect to a network share with the n810?04:23
irqthe os2007 xmodmap won't install on diablo04:25
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irqis anyone around that can help with xmodmap?04:28
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dick-richardsonanyone know where I can set a proxy globally?04:32
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irqxmodmap is at http://mg.pov.lt/770/04:46
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Silvermain/links05:11
Silvermain/part05:16
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bef0rd;_;05:45
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trevorwhat format should the sources.list file use?07:21
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pupnikhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=search&q=Gallium3D07:22
pupnikX11 is too crufty for the third millennium.  We need fundamental changes for modern GPUs.07:23
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RST38hpupnik: X11 isn't a 3D API08:32
RST38hit is a framework where multiple APIs (including OpenGL btw) exist08:33
pupnikwell yah08:37
pupniknonetheless08:39
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pupnik"Ymanton will work on video decoding via shader instructions. To be prototyped on Gallium3D softpipe implementation first, it will be later implemented for Nouveau."08:44
pupnikhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau_39&num=108:44
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pupnikI'd like to see Gallium3D on OMAP3430 / 353008:45
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RST38hPowerVR is a much simpler piece of hw08:52
RST38hSo, the likely answer is "no" =) But even a truncated version of OpenGL would be nice08:53
pupnikyeah08:54
pupnikhttp://www.radeonhd.org/?page=fosdem_videos08:54
pupnikFOSDEM X.Org 2008 Videos08:55
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teamcobrayeah, the dreamcast had a pvr, wicked chip09:01
bef0rdI believe I saw some opengl demos on powervr site09:02
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bef0rdhttp://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/demos/shaderbrowser2.asp09:08
bef0rdI mean http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/powervr-demos.asp09:08
teamcobrawonder how much money would have to be thrown into the pot to get drivers into maemo for it....... problem is, whoever wrote the drivers would probably have ndas, and the driver wouldn't be open, and thus not in mainline09:16
teamcobraunless there was a sudden break of common sense09:17
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pupnikomap3530 and 3430 is much more open from what i've heard09:19
teamcobrahow much are the reference boards though? I'd help create a device09:20
pupnikbeagleboards are very cheap / subsidized perhaps even09:20
teamcobraand by much more open, are there xorg glx/dri/directfb drivers? ;)09:20
teamcobrahmmmmm... I have enough to buy gear09:22
pupnikhttp://dkc1.digikey.com/us/mkt/beagleboard.html09:22
pupnikglx yes afaik09:22
pupnikwell yes to all i think09:23
teamcobrawowow, I should've bought this instead of an n810, but owell.... still, I shall build a nice prototype09:23
teamcobraI know how to do multitouch on a big screen, but how would I pull it off on a nseries-sized device?09:24
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teamcobrahahah, nevermind, it looks like apple actually has a patent on that ;p that's wrong, jeff han did a lot of work ;p09:35
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pupnikwould be nice to mate an internet tablet to a larger (compatible) touchscreen09:52
teamcobraright, w/ more horsepower + opengl es 2.009:54
teamcobraI'd have to add more sd slots, one to accomodate a wifi card09:55
teamcobrabuilt in 4-port usb, maybe an extra bus for a built-in wireless or bt09:56
teamcobranot an extra bus, but you get the idea... it's late ;p09:56
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Cptnodegardanyone here use omweather?10:07
RST38hyes?10:08
Cptnodegardthe "enable station from gps" option10:09
Cptnodegardwtf is it for?10:09
Cptnodegardthought it was to add city via gps10:09
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Cptnodegardmeh no way to add custom cities internationally...useless then10:12
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Cptnodegardhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2189&stc=1&d=1217234247   <- whats the pap that allows for icons on the home screen?10:24
bef0rdpersonal-launcher10:25
Cptnodegardthx10:25
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Cptnodegardcan you adfd web bookmarks to personal-launch?10:33
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GuestHi !10:35
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Khertan2:)10:36
Khertan2my stupid desktop lcd is dead ...!10:36
Khertan2pffff10:36
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bef0rdthat happened to me aswell10:37
Khertan2dark screen ... green led ... no osd when connecting or disconnecting cable10:38
Khertan2and ... a great luminosity 1 seconds before the blackout ...10:38
Khertan22,5 years10:38
bef0rdheh, at least the OSD works in mine10:38
bef0rdyea, it was not even 2 years old10:38
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bef0rd:/ it was already out of warranty obviously10:39
Khertan22 year of warranty on the mine10:39
Khertan2so ... going to buy an another10:40
Cptnodegard./usr/bin/browser apparently launches the browser, can you add some shit to that to make it open specific pages?10:43
Khertan2hum ... i ll don't buy another lcd10:43
bef0rdheh, I had a CRT10:43
bef0rdI'm using it atm10:43
bef0rd:<10:43
bef0rdCptnodegard, probably, but I think that you need to add some parameters instead of shit10:44
Khertan2crt powa !10:44
Cptnodegardbef0rd lol yeah, i dont know how or what to add so thats why im asking if its even possible. trying to get a photobucket bookmark on personal-launch10:45
liriis there a big difference between the screen on the N810 compared to the N800 on sunlight?10:45
tank-manliri, imo no10:46
X-Fadeliri: Day and night.10:47
X-Fadeliri: You can't read the N800 in sunlight.10:47
wndCptnodegard, --url foo10:48
ItalodanceHELLO GUYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS10:51
Cptnodegardjust --url url or some : or "" or whatnot?10:51
bef0rdOH HAI Italodance10:52
wnde.g. "browser --url http://www.google.com/intl/en/", quotes if needed10:56
liriX-Fade: I see10:56
wndI think it also parses "--url=foo" correctly10:56
liriI haven't seen the N810 so it is possible to stick in it a Micro SD instead o a Mini SD using one of those converters?10:57
bef0rdliri, yes10:58
Cptnodegard"browser -url lalal" didnt work, neither did browser --url lalala, browser --url=lalala, browser --url:lalala or browser --url "lalala"10:59
liribef0rd: but would it be sticking out?10:59
bef0rdliri, erhm no10:59
bef0rdliri, I have an 8gb microsd + minisd adaptor11:00
Cptnodegard@ helping people, got it to work, thanks :d had to do a new item alltogether forpersonal-launch and not just edit the web one11:01
lirican you show a picture of it?11:01
bef0rdliri, the adaptor is exactly the same size / shape of a microsd11:02
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liribef0rd: ahh I see11:03
bef0rderm I mean, same size as a minisd, it has a small ranure where you put the microsd11:03
liribef0rd: but how does it fit in the minisd compartment? isn't it supported to be smaller?11:03
wndCptnodegard, I can only say that "browser --url foo" works for me(tm)11:05
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bef0rdliri, www.beford.org/cosas/11:18
pupnik"We expect the PowerVR SGX drivers to be publicly available by the end of 2008. Only the kernel portions will be open source. The PowerVR folks will provide binary user-space libraries."11:24
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bef0rdthat's something :]11:24
pupnikunfortunately, i don't know of any plans to integrate 3d gui widgets or compositing into ITOS11:29
pupnikanybody know of such things?11:30
glassnice, nice11:32
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doc|homewhat's the best mapping app?11:34
doc|home(no gps)11:35
bef0rdmaemo-mapper?11:40
BugBluemaemo-mapper without gps11:40
doc|homeok, thanks11:43
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liribef0rd: cool thanks11:45
liribef0rd: how are the speakers on the 810? I read they are less loud than the 800 model11:46
bef0rdi've never had a n800 but they are pretty loud11:47
liriahh nice11:49
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pupnikmine seemed to reqire break-in at loud volume for many hours11:55
pupnikugh X input11:57
pupnikProcessInputEvents -> ProcessKeyEvent -> AccessXFilterKeyPress/Release -> XkbHandleActions -> XkbProcessKeyEvent -> CoreProcessKeyEvent11:58
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pupnikah poor Daniel - fixing up X input headaches :) http://www.radeonhd.org/fosdem-2008/fosdem_2008_daniel.ogg12:02
lirianybody here with both N810 and N800 devices?12:02
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khertan_Hi !12:05
khertan_I can't download any map with the default map app ... it s always failed12:05
khertan_is there a way to download it elsewhere ?12:05
khertan_a http site ?12:05
khertan_hum ... maybe should i use a sniffer :)12:06
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qwerty12crashanddie's already been there, done that...12:17
qwerty12ffs, I can't find that mkfs.jffs2 line to repack the initfs >.<12:18
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Spaceman-N810Is there a way to reinstall flash?12:22
qwerty12Diablo?12:22
Spaceman-N810Chinook12:22
qwerty12Oh, out of luck then.12:22
Spaceman-N810Damn12:23
rm_youlol yeah my flash is broken, i tried to get flash10 to work :P12:23
Spaceman-N810I don't have access to a computer to reflash my tablet, as badly as it needs it atm12:24
qwerty12The only way I can think of reinstalling Flash in Chinook, requires a deb based linux distro and a *lot* of time12:24
bef0rdflash10 is i386 :P12:24
zapwhat's flash? you mean adobe flash, or flash ROM12:24
qwerty12Flash as in adobe12:25
Spaceman-N810Adobe flash12:25
zapum.. and how it comes you don't have it? its part of standard ROM12:25
Spaceman-N810Mine broke12:25
bef0rdhow?12:25
zap%-O12:25
bef0rdare you sure its not only disabled?12:25
Spaceman-N810Specifically, adblock seems to have broken it12:26
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Spaceman-N810Ill look12:26
bef0rdhave you checked on the components window?12:26
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Spaceman-N810Agh, that makes me mad...12:26
bef0rdwhat?12:27
Spaceman-N810All this time ive suffered w/o flash12:27
Spaceman-N810And it's just disabled12:27
rm_youlol12:27
rm_yousucks for you :( funny for me :P12:27
bef0rdI suffer with flash enabled12:27
Spaceman-N810Well, its true that i've prolly benefited too12:28
qwerty12Lol, atm I'm using MicroB with brontide's usercontent.css, flash and javascript disabled and I've never felt better browsing on a tablet.12:28
khertan_lol ...12:28
khertan_flash is only needed to see ad12:28
Stskeepsqwerty12: in diablo its possible though, reinstalling flash12:29
Stskeepsas adobe-flashplayer is on updates12:29
qwerty12Stskeeps: I know, that's why I asked if he was using diablo.12:29
Stskeepsah12:29
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Stskeepssometimes i question my own sanity.. i'm trying to make actual debian installer run on tablet12:30
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pupnikStskeeps: apt-get works fine12:40
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Stskeepspupnik: i'm talking about the one used on cd images and such :P12:44
Stskeepsand yes, apt-get is prolly fine for many things12:45
qwerty12Stskeeps: Is there any point, I had fun using this installer on my tablet last time :P12:46
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Stskeepsqwerty12: not sure yet, just investigating since it is a more natural way to install and do preseed configurations and stuff12:46
qwerty12Ah12:47
Stskeepslooking into a way where it would bootstrap a chroot folder with just enough to get things started, like an initrd12:47
AddisonGreetings and salutations gentlemen!12:47
Stskeepsso it doesn't need to affect maemo at all with packages12:47
Stskeepswhich is a plus since 2008HE (which we plan to support) is a bit low on space :)12:48
qwerty12Hehe, tell them to upgrade :P12:48
qwerty12Heh, yerga's patch for full screen control panel is fun12:49
bef0rdcontrol panel needs some patches to work ok on a rotated screen :P12:51
qwerty12In fullscreen mode, control panel works ok in rotation, easily usable.12:52
bef0rdsmall icons?12:52
qwerty12Nah, large icons12:52
zapWoo-hoo! looks like PowerVR will get some use soon :)12:53
qwerty12zap: drivers discussion wiki?12:54
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zapwiki and mailing list12:54
qwerty12ok12:55
zap<<We are working to get some version of driver available to developpers but it won't be any Nokia supported version.  The plan is least tell in Maemo Summit could we resolve existing problem and make driver some way available.>>12:55
X-Fadezap: Plan to tell if ;)12:55
qwerty12Oh, I saw that message y/day12:56
zapX-Fade: well its nice to hear anyway that Nokia is on our side :)12:58
zapX-Fade: do you know what happened with the builder?12:58
X-Fadezap: ?12:59
zapit doesn't work, I'm trying to push zip/unzip/zip3 through for several days12:59
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X-Fadezap: I see them as OK?13:00
zaphttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/chinook/unzip_5.52-14-maemo3/13:00
zaphttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/z/13:00
zapno zip or zip3 here13:00
zapbut in the builder the log says everything's ok13:01
X-Fadezap: Yeah, so it is not the builder but the repository queue.13:01
zapand how much it'll be here?13:02
zapI waited more than 24h, then uploaded them again yesterday at night13:02
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X-Fadezap: I'll check a bit later.13:02
zapthank you13:02
zapsome people got out of disk space errors in their logs, maybe that's the reason...13:04
bef0rdis there any way to view microb error console? (does it even exist :) ?)13:12
zapHey people, what do you think about making a garage project for quick maemo ports of unix packages? The idea is it to contain just the debian/ directory for packages, and use the unchanged mainstream tarball as base (all patches will go to debian/).13:13
zapI mean, it's overkill to make separate projects for every unix program in existence...13:14
X-Fadezap: Look at mudbuilder on garage.13:14
zapaha, ty13:14
X-Fadeor mud-builder.13:14
zapI'm not the first to think of it? :)13:14
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zapUgh, Perl...13:21
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* zap is a perl hater...13:21
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lbtanyone know of a video clip organiser for the tablet?13:25
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bef0rdhave you seen videocenter?13:34
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qwerty12bef0rd: btw, control panel full screen, rotated: http://i34.tinypic.com/e1w2c.png13:36
RST38hperl is good!13:37
RST38h[where it is needed of course]13:37
lbtperl is good anywhere!13:38
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zapwell, fortunately you don't have to learn Perl to use mud-builder :)13:39
bef0rdqwerty12, it looks ok, it could look better though :P13:39
RST38hJalimo guys released J2ME for N8x013:39
qwerty12It works :P13:39
RST38hSo, whoever wanted to play those mobile java games, it is your lucky day13:39
qwerty12RST38h: w00t :).13:39
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zapit must be damn slow13:39
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t_s_ook, now im really confused. used the tablet until the battery showed close to empty. put it into offline and locked it, then left it there. it stayed that way for 10 hours! then when i hit the power button to wake up the screen it went dead on the spot...13:41
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* qwerty12 is really liking the look of the preview of omweather 0.2113:41
qwerty12Oh shit, it's in svn too, I'm building straight off13:43
RST38hzap: They say it is using JIT13:44
zaphmm, ARM JIT?13:44
RST38hzap: Also, it won't be slower than on my 208MHz E7013:44
RST38hThere is no ARM JIT13:44
zapqemu-like JIT?13:44
RST38hJazelle is no JIT13:44
RST38hzap: *some* JIT that is part of Sun's PhoneME13:44
zapAh, I was meaning "ARM JIT" as in "JIT for ARM cpus"13:45
RST38hqwerty: Screenshot? =)13:45
RST38hzap: Well, yes13:45
zapcool then, must try it )13:45
RST38hzap: Tell us what you find! =)13:45
* RST38h is kinda afraid to put this thing on his tablet13:45
glassRST38h: url for that thing? like with lists of jsr's it supports etc13:46
zapwhat bad things can happen anyway? the worst - you will have to reflash, and I've passed through this lots of times ;)13:46
glassspeed should be ok, but the resolution kills most games.. is it configurable?13:46
RST38hglass: http://smancke.blogs.evolvis.org/2008/08/01/phoneme-for-maemo-and-openmoko/13:46
RST38hThe only problem is, these Jalimo guys are kinda introverted - it is very difficult to understand what they are talking about13:47
qwerty12RST38h: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/omweather-021-preview/13:47
glasshmm cdc != j2me13:47
RST38hglass: well, j2me is really cldc13:47
RST38hbut cdc will do13:47
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glassyes.. but i'm not finding reference to midp anywhere13:48
glassdo they have the classes for that or not?13:48
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RST38hqwerty: Wow. Is it >20MB in size now? =)13:48
RST38hglass: oh, see, it is historical :)13:48
RST38hglass: midp became j2me that later became phoneme13:49
RST38hglass: it is the same freaking thing13:49
qwerty12RST38h: I hope not :D. Let's see if I can get this to build, debian changelog says it is 0.21 version...13:49
glassRST38h: ..?13:49
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glassRST38h: whidh midp version they support then or any?13:49
RST38hglass: prolly midp 213:50
RST38hglass: because phoneme is midp213:50
glassaha then. cldc 1.1 like? with floats13:51
RST38hthis I do not know13:51
RST38hI guess running some benchmark will show you the exact version13:52
bef0rdhttp://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Java#J2ME_MIDP2.013:53
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RST38hbedf0rd: I think it is different from the PhoneME they have just ported13:55
bef0rdbut phoneme is another VM right?13:56
RST38hit is vm+libs13:58
RST38hlibs are in C13:58
RST38hand there are Java wrapper for them13:58
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blafaselTalking about introverts.. The vala guys are somewhat unreachable..14:00
juergbiblafasel: are we?14:01
RST38hblafasel: make a human sacrifice.14:01
blafaselDamn. You get me every time ;)14:02
RST38hor at least slaughter a goat.14:02
blafaseljuergbi: WTF? =) Since when are you here?14:02
juergbiblafasel: for ages ;)14:02
blafaselAnd what's the magic highlight?14:02
blafasel"vala" + "hard" ;)14:02
blafaselAt least this time I was idling patiently for 12 hours before I gave up though.14:03
juergbii don't have much time, so i may be slow at responding sometimes but i try to answer when questions arise via irc14:04
blafaseljuergbi: Do you own a maemo device?14:04
juergbiyes, i have a n81014:04
blafaselAh, nice14:04
lirijuergbi: do you also have/had an N800?14:04
juergbino14:05
lirijuergbi: how's the GPS on the N80?14:05
lirierr, *N81014:05
juergbiit used to be pretty bad14:06
RST38hNokia: Connecting People!14:06
juergbihowever, with a-gps in diablo it works pretty well14:06
RST38h=)14:06
juergbithe map application could use some improvements but it works14:06
blafaselRST38h: ;)14:07
blafaseljuergbi: Can I bug you with this vala question of mine? Do you have a second?14:07
juergbiyes14:08
blafaselHere or over in #vala?14:08
lirijuergbi: ahh good14:08
juergbi#vala probably makes more sense14:08
pupnik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HhIt8A-d34  Picodrive Sega Genesis emulator running 150-175 fps on pandora dev board [ OMAP3530 ]14:11
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zapX-Fade: ah, forgot to ask: does DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS on maemo-builder include the 'thumb' option? I see my packages aren't built as thumb, although they have support for it14:12
pupnikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGz52EIVN8s  Quake 2 on pandora devboard14:12
zapsoftware or hardware 3D?14:12
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zapI can't believe, it's PowerVR :)14:22
RST38hit most likely is not14:23
kulveat least some of the pandora people do have beta sgx drivers. I really don't know if that uses them14:23
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* RST38h can't believe PowerVR IP holder makes any money seeing how difficult it is to get access to their APIs14:23
zap:)14:24
kulveRST38h: their API is used by millions of nokia phones14:24
zapORLY?14:24
kulveafaik all those n-series phones uses powervr14:25
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RST38hkulve: but how many applications?14:25
zaphaven't seen any 3D on my wife's father' N9514:25
kulveRST38h: probably 0 :)14:25
RST38h"used" means "running inside an application"14:26
glasskulve: not all14:26
kulveRST38h: I excluded games from "application"14:26
glasszap: n95 can do really nice 3d14:26
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zapglass: how I can see it?14:27
zapN810 could do some nice 3D as well, perhaps14:27
zapjust no drivers :)14:27
kulvezap: buy a game (if there really isn't any free ones)14:27
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glasskulve: just n93,n93i, e90, different n95 flavors and n82 have 3d in hw(might forget one model)14:27
kulvezap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N9514:27
kulve"332 MHz Texas Instruments OMAP 2420"14:27
kulve"Fully HW accelerated 3D (OpenGL ES 1.1, HW accelerated Java 3D)"14:27
glasszap: download some 3d games that use it.. that one rally game at least and some others14:27
glasszap: or some j2me stuff that use the 3d lib14:28
zapok14:28
pupniksoftware zap14:28
glasse90 does nice 3d on the highres inside screen14:29
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RST38hOn the other hand "sell hw manufacturer some 3d crap, do not let his clients use it hoping that this way nobody figures out it is crap" is also a good strategy14:29
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glassi'm not sure but i think the quake port for n95 uses the 3d hw too14:30
RST38hit runs on 3d-less phones afaik14:32
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pupnikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe_R787gREc  jaguar emulator14:39
glassRST38h: the same libs use sw on phones without hw14:40
pupnikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH-mcMpBocU  snes emulator14:41
bef0rdeverybody is getting snes emulator but us :(14:43
bef0rd(decent speed snes emulator)14:43
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RST38hsnes9x14:45
RST38hjust port it (preferably gp2x version) and you are all set14:45
bef0rdI was checking somebody else's work trying to port a gp2x snes emulator, it was an horror, as he called the src package :P14:46
RST38hwell, gp2x guys are kinda haxxorish14:47
RST38hbut it should still be portable14:47
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bef0rdoh, it was pupnik heh http://pupnik.de/snes9x.html14:51
khertan_huhu i get a new 22" screen ...14:52
khertan_this change many things !14:52
bef0rd;_;14:54
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Andy80hi15:13
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lbtpython-tk anyone?15:31
lbtapt-get install python has it as 'suggested'15:31
lbtbut it "has no installation candidate"15:31
qwerty12_N800don't think tkinter is available on the tablet15:31
lbtis that a hangover from the upstream packaging then15:32
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: was it mmc+unionfs that needed the case_ stuff or unionfs itself, btw?15:32
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: just the unionfs. the mmcunionfs is a bunch of scripts for it15:33
Stskeepsk15:34
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khertan_my new screen have a dead pixel ...15:43
khertan_in the middle ...15:43
khertan_lol15:43
khertan_hopefully buy it to a local store and the seller will exchange me it ...15:43
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Stskeepswhy is15:44
Stskeeps'catapults' on the list of banned items on flights? ..15:44
khertan_raaahahahahahahahah glade3 isn't really stable !15:46
khertan_lost my modifications !!!15:46
khertan_grrr15:46
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: so you can't you can catapult the pilot with a bomb and give him/her brain damage15:48
Stskeepsalso, this is in cabin baggage15:48
jottspeaking of baggage, now it's official: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/01/AR2008080103030.html15:49
khertan_bye ... returning my screen to the seller ... :)15:50
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RST38hjott: Yep. Officially fucked.15:52
jottbest thing is that they are allowed to share copies with "private entities"15:52
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RST38hThe funny thing is, media inspection at the border was one of the USSR trademark kinks15:53
RST38hDidn't take long, hehe =)15:53
jottRST38h: hah moscow should sue them for patent violation :P15:53
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rm_youis that just in checked baggage, i wonder?15:57
RST38hjott: don't worry, local news outlets are sure to use this stuff for "no freedom in US" propaganda =)15:57
rm_youor if i am carrying my laptop with me on the plane, could they take it then too15:57
RST38hrm_you: no, personal inspection too15:57
qwerty12_N800RST38h: sounds like the local news have a point...15:57
RST38hthey will take your laptop at customs checkpoint in the US, if they want to15:57
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RST38hqwerty: Oh, that is the whole point15:58
RST38hqwerty: On one hand, it is propaganda, on the other hand, they have got geniune basis for it15:58
qwerty12_N800true15:58
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RST38hit's isn't like western media treating Russia any differently though.15:59
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zapyesterday on TV they said even phones and memory cards/pen drives are taboo as well15:59
RST38hany media16:00
RST38hactually, I got into this kind of trouble once at NYC customs16:00
zapI was surprised because this is not mentioned in the media you gave a link to yesterday16:00
bef0rdit would be funny to travel with some of those old 5 1/4 floppy disks16:01
RST38hzap: if you google for it, you will see that they mean all the media16:01
RST38hzap: even pieces of paper with phone numbers in your pockets16:01
zap:))16:01
RST38hbef0rd: Oh, in my case it was even BETTER16:01
rm_youit sucks but for once I'm counting on them to look at me as some white guy <_<16:01
RST38hbef0rd: I had a NOR flash chip soldered to a USB connector (no flash drive)16:01
zapoh my16:02
RST38hrm_you: They are prohibited from racial profiling, so they will anal-probe everyone =)16:02
bef0rdhaha, self made storage device16:02
RST38hbef0rd: So when the guy asked me to show what is onit...16:02
rm_youheh, yeah, but they still do it <_<16:02
zapI would like to see their face if you would have an old-style alarm clock with some chips soldered and lots of wires around16:02
RST38hbef0rd: I pleasantly told him that it is no problem, but I will need a TV, an outlet to plug my devkit board in, and a computer to make connection to the devkit16:03
RST38hbef0rd: Guy sucked it up =)16:03
RST38hzap: You better not try16:03
rm_youi am not even concerned about what they would find, but I *NEED* my laptop for my job16:03
RST38hzap: They will find a reason or two to screw you up for good then16:03
rm_youi cant have them taking it for months16:03
rm_youor even weeks16:04
jottrm_you: let them copy your hdd and give them to some private entity. :/16:04
qwerty12_N800I'll use google maps method of going from uk to us and swim16:05
rm_youI wonder what they would think of some of the stuff I have on there O_o16:05
* rm_you visits 4chan /b/ sometimes16:06
rm_youat least, it is all on arrival in US right?16:06
bef0rdbtards :|16:07
rm_youso i wont have to worry about them stealing my N800 on the way to the summit <_<16:07
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rm_youI bet some of the security people at the airports are /b/tards16:07
zapthey will enjoy your content them16:08
zap*then16:08
lbthttp://www.truecrypt.org/16:09
lbtnow, can we use the multiboot to install it?16:09
jottlbt: encryption ensures your laptop will be taken :p16:10
qwerty12_N800they'll want the decryption password16:10
lbtread the page :)16:10
Veggenjott: even if it's work policy?16:10
Veggenjott: it is at my work.16:10
lbtit will boot to a nice easy OS with innocent files16:10
jottVeggen: your work for the terrorists!?  *scnr*16:10
lbthttp://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=hidden-operating-system16:11
lbtor it just boots a normal OS16:12
Veggenlbt: quite good idea, in fact, but *if* they discover something fishy, they'll never give it back ;)16:12
jottand if there is a truecrypt password prompt at bootup that *is* suspicious.16:13
lbtno, the laptop boot sector is normal16:13
lbtboots to the decoy os16:13
VeggenI think I'm never gonna bring my laptop to US without ensuring a) I have no sensitive data on it, b) that I have a complete/full backup from the day before I leave.16:13
lbthowever, the usb stick (containing piccies)16:13
lbthas a boot sector16:14
lbtand *it* will point the laptop to the truecrypt bootloader16:14
lbtthen that asks for a pw16:14
lbtwhich goes to the second decoy OS16:14
Veggengood idea, until you forget the USB stick at home.16:14
lbtor drop the laptop16:14
lbtor, or, or16:14
lbtpaff ;)16:15
zapor they find the usb stick16:15
zapin your pocket16:15
qwerty12_N800and they decide to boot from it16:15
rm_youship it via first class mail16:15
lbtand the guards have the knowledge to boot with the stick in place do they?16:15
rm_youthey can't search THAT without probably cause :P16:15
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lbtand as I said, which goes to the second decoy OS16:15
lbtwith 'confidential' work info on it16:16
qwerty12_N800lets hope they don't read maemo irc logs16:16
lbtwhich you admit under duress16:16
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lbtof course they do16:16
bef0rd:X16:16
lbtanyhow, Truecrypt is probably best of breed, if you care.16:17
lbtit's 'good enough' to get past TSA and to protect your data even if they confiscate it.16:18
lbtThey can't then extradite you for copying CDs16:18
bef0rdI still think its easier to upload your sensitive data encrypted somewhere to the internet, and erase your hdd completly16:18
RST38hyes, seems to be the only way16:18
lbtbef0rd: yes, that's an alternative if you will have internet access16:19
qwerty12_N800i like rm_you's idea :p16:19
jottlbt: i still think you can see the presence of truecrypt (of course not proof the existence of the hidden os).16:20
lbtno you can't16:20
jottanyway, there are always ways to get data in and out16:20
lbtread Schnier if you like :)16:20
lbts/ier/eier/16:20
infobotlbt meant: read Schneier if you like :)16:20
bef0rdthere are also a lot of places to hide an 8gb microsd too16:20
qwerty12_N800don't give them an excuse for anal probing...16:21
jottlbt: you can see a partition which has no real data on it => assume it is encrypted.16:21
lbtjott: no you can't16:21
lbtunused space16:22
jottlbt: you have an outer partition that is encrypted.16:22
lbtit can be set up properly; it can be set up badly16:22
jottevery intelligence will *assume* that the "unsused" space contains encrypted data16:22
lbtthat's OK16:22
jottunused16:22
jottif you tell them you used "truecrypt" it is OBVIOUS that there is probably a hidden partition.16:23
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lbtif someone who knows about truecrypt is talking to you then you are already in game over mode ;)16:23
jott(to reveal the outer partition)16:23
lbtas far as delays go16:23
bef0rdqwerty12_N800, lol, I was thinking in a watch, even a pacemaker, I dont think they will disassemble it :P16:23
jihoonI wonder about how I change the CPU frequency.16:24
qwerty12_N800bef0rd: hehe. a pacemaker is a bit extreme but i guess whatever it takes...16:25
jihoonAre there anyone who know about that?16:25
jottso i think this "hidden" partition under extorsion scenario is not very realistic :P16:25
lbthttp://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=plausible-deniability16:25
lbtseriously, read up on it if you are interested.16:25
lbtyour arguments will almost certainly have answers.16:25
jottlbt: seriously, it depends on what scenario you assume.16:26
lbtnothing is 100% secure16:27
lbthowever this approach offers the current best of breed16:27
jottand *if* i expect data on a device and the person reveals the password saying it is truecrypt, it is obvious to assume that there is a hidden partition, no matter if there is no way to proof it.16:27
lbthence Guantanamo bay...16:27
lbtyour argument is "if they do something suspicuous then they are guilty - shoot them"16:28
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jottyes.16:28
lbtwhich seems like the US16:28
jottfor example16:28
jotti suppose china too16:29
lbtindeed16:29
lbthowever the problem is that the criteria you use for guilty16:29
lbtencompasses too many people16:29
lbteven for the US to 'disappear'16:29
lbts/US/china/16:29
infobotlbt meant: even for the china to 'disappear'16:29
lbt(sorry, easy to do nowadays ;) )16:30
lbtOK - back to bootmenu16:30
t_s_oah, there we go. new mauku installed16:31
jottwell all i say it does not really matter if you use a hidden partition or not if you are in some states.16:31
t_s_onot sure i like the kinetic scroll, but thats a minor issue with the scroll bar turned on ;)16:32
lbtthe thing is, the approach will get you past the TSA quick boot check...16:32
lbtdoes anyone know of any rules about partitioning an mmc card for multiboot?16:33
jottyeah well as i said, it's easy to get data in and out if you really want to.16:33
lbtie the first partition should be vfat16:33
jottlbt: i set it up this way, less trouble.16:33
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texellbt: what TSA quick boot check?16:34
texellbt: I've never had to pass any such thing bringing my N810 in or out of the US. O.o16:34
lbtthe TSA ask you to boot your laptop to make sure it isn't full of semtex16:34
texellbt: semtex? O.o16:35
qwerty12_N800bomb stuff iirc16:35
texellbt: I've also never had to do that with full on laptops, either. =op16:35
lbtme neither16:35
lbtbut they do it every now and again16:35
texelActually, I had to do that /before/ the TSA started mucking with "security".16:35
texelI haven't since they started, though.16:35
lbtpossibly more nowadays given recent news16:35
texelRecent news?16:35
* texel has been in Tokyo for the last month16:35
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lbtsee "the internet" ;)16:36
texelBlargh.16:36
texelToo, much trouble to look it up. =op16:36
texels/,//16:36
infobottexel meant: Too much trouble to look it up. =op16:36
texel(weird watching Japanese traditional kabuki on TV where they speak /mandarin/)16:37
jotttexel: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/01/AR2008080103030.html16:39
texeljott: Thanks. =o)16:39
lbtso, for multiboot on 8Gb MMC I was thinking : 2Gb vfat for data :: 1Gb ext3 Chinook everyday-use :: 512Mb ext3 Chinook test :: 512Mb ext3 Diablo test :: 512Mb ext3 2007 test:: 2Gb ext3 Debian :: Spare (not Truecrypt!!)16:41
lbtdoes that sound sensible?16:41
lbtdo I need anything for the bootmenu thing?16:41
texelWell.16:41
texelOkay, so the plot thickens.16:41
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texelI was worried about that.16:41
jottlbt: probably some modifications to select the partitions16:42
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lbtjott: how do you mean?16:42
texelLooks like I get to image my laptops, encrypt the images, and then wipe all equipment when I go back to the states. =o(16:42
lbtI was going to pull the MMC to my desktop and partition there16:42
jottlbt: well just to have the correct menu entries :)16:42
lbtgotcha16:42
lbtthe idea was to image the test partitions16:42
qwerty12_N800lbt: you'll need to add entries bootmenu.conf16:42
lbtthen I can easily restore them16:42
lbtto test installations, dependencies etc16:43
jottyeah sounds useful.16:43
lbtdo I need a tiny partition to store bootmenu data?16:43
lbtI was going to do a wiki page16:43
jottno it's all in the initfs16:43
lbtwhere does that live?16:43
lbtin the flash?16:43
jottinternal flash16:43
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texeljott: Big thanks for that link. =o)16:43
lbtOK, I may want to make a bootmenu partition then with things to flash16:44
lbtin the event of diablo upgrades overwriting it16:44
lbtetc16:44
lbtis ext3 the correct fs? rather than jffs2?16:45
qwerty12_N800yes16:45
jottjffs2 is for mtd devices.16:45
qwerty12_N800some prefer ext2 over ext3 for mmc cards16:45
lbtisn't ext3 w/o journalling == ext2?16:46
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jottlbt: more or less.16:46
lbt[I always use XFS :) ]16:46
jottif you build the kernel module and modify the initfs scripts you should also be able to use xfs.16:47
lbtnah - no real benefit here16:48
lbtI want it to be generic16:48
lbtanyway have you seen the mem requirements to repair xfs16:48
qwerty12_N800just add the xfs module to be loaded to bootmenu.conf instead of going for the scripts directly16:48
jottactually bootmenu.conf is an initfs script :P16:49
qwerty12_N800true :D16:49
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qwerty12_N800btw, does this look correct? I get the framebuffer output  but then the n800 reboots: http://pastebin.com/m7a3c562716:51
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qwerty12_N800i may just end up duplicating lines in linuxrc and have flashfb as a "special" id16:53
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t_s_olets just say that things are turning from silly to tragic with frightning efficiency...16:56
t_s_owell oops on me, the log was scrolled...16:56
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texelt_s_o: so are you taking about the US TSA/CBP issue? O.o16:59
t_s_oyep16:59
texelMm.16:59
texelThe worst part of it seems to be that the populace can't do anything about it. =o(17:00
texelDespite the fact that the US is a democracy, we have about as much input to the decisions of our politicians as the Japanese have with theirs. =o(17:00
t_s_osupposedly, japan to is a democracy...17:01
texelRight, they are, but in a different way.17:01
t_s_ostill, i was ones corrected for calling either that, as neither is a true democracy...17:01
texelWell, they're "representative" democracies.17:02
t_s_oindeed17:02
texelA true 1:1 democracy isn't possible with such a large group of people.17:02
t_s_oi dont know, i think irc something brings out the anal detalist in people17:02
texelAnd can arguably be one of severely diminishing returns as people vote in blocs.17:02
t_s_ough, sometimes17:02
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* texel shrugs17:03
texelPersonally, I'd rather establish the first interplanetary colony on the moon, Luna. =op17:03
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texelDefending it would certainly be easy -- just toss rocks at the invaders. >=o)17:04
t_s_oheh, i could have sworn there was a sci-fi book that contained something like that17:05
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texelt_s_o: there was.17:14
texelt_s_o: By Vox Day, I think.17:14
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texelt_s_o: "Rebel Moon"17:14
texelt_s_o: And also by Heinlein, actually.17:14
texelt_s_o: "Stranger in a Strange Land", IIRC.17:14
t_s_oi think maybe its the latter i have heard about17:14
texelYeah.17:15
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texelThe latter has a computer on the moon get mad at it's occupants and attack the earth by throwing rocks. =op17:15
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qwerty12_N800mikkov_: what is the difference in your port of lbreakout2 and Yann Benigot's one?17:17
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t_s_otexel: maybe it was "the moon is a harsh mistress" that you had in mind when you where thinking about a heinlein book17:22
t_s_oit could seem that a rail gun on the moon throwing rocks at the earth is a fairly common theme...17:24
t_s_oas for setting up a colony to get away from earth politics. didnt RMS talk about something that when writing about DRM and sharing?17:24
texelt_s_o: yes! Yeah, that's the one. =op17:26
texelt_s_o: Hm. I think so, now that you mention it.17:26
texelt_s_o: But I think it was for a demonstration of how bad DRM is.17:27
texelt_s_o: or misused copyright.17:27
t_s_oindeed17:27
texelt_s_o: I wasn't saying setting it up to get away from earth politics, really.17:27
t_s_oby setting up something of a hippie commune on the moon that shared media and ideas freely17:27
texelt_s_o: just to get away from this "terrorist" this and "terrorism" that shit.17:28
texelt_s_o: because getting to the moon is a crapload harder. =op17:28
t_s_owell i would say thats part of the political landscape these days, so...17:28
texelMmm.17:28
texelTrue enough. =o/17:28
t_s_osadly i suspect that people like jfk are extinct these days...17:29
t_s_othat bullet did more then kill a man...17:29
texelMm.17:29
texelI guess I"m just sick of having my rights slowly stripped away without my consent.17:29
jottit's actually a basis of modern politics to uphold the fear of terrorism.17:29
texelAnd what's worse is...17:29
texel...when I protest...17:29
texel...the large mass of IDIOTS around me respond with, "what? You don't like to be safe?"17:30
texelMy usual response is "FUCK NO IF IT MEANS LOSING MY RIGHTS!"17:30
texelWhich just pisses them off, of all things.17:30
texelInstead of making them think.17:30
texelAlso, IDIOTS usually equals TSA guys and most of the general public.17:31
texelI actually had a little chat with one of them on the way through the checkpoint.17:31
jottgiven the number of homicides in the us it's actually quite "funny" to think about the increased safety by stripping basic freedoms.17:32
texelHe had no idea what the word "draconian" meant, and stated to me (after I protested about the 3oz liquid ban) that "they were going to blow up planes with liquids"17:32
t_s_ohttp://www.stallman.org/images/brave-and-free.jpg17:32
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texelMy response was, "So 'they' is me by that logic, and I clearly do not have anything that would be useful for such a thing, as by your own search."17:33
t_s_osadly, just like no sane communist had a badge, no sane terrorist have one...17:34
texelHeh17:34
texelYet they continually bandy about the "Terrorism ID badge" for all US citizens that essentially creates a national ID system to track /our own citizens/.17:35
jotti thought a beard was a terroist badge nowadays? :P17:35
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texelNah. Anything that makes you look like anything but Bush is the badge.17:36
texel"That child is a terrorist!"17:36
texel"Why?"17:36
jottah right either him or a terrorist.17:36
mattis_can anyone help me with my usb-webcam problem?? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20955917:36
texel"He's smaller than the president!"17:36
texel"Burn her at the stake! She's a witch!" =op17:37
texelEh. Enough complaining.17:38
texelTime for bed.17:38
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bef0rdg'night17:39
bef0rdbreakfast time17:39
texelHhe17:39
texelRice balls are awesome for breakfast, btw. =o)17:39
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t_s_ojott: that beard comment made me think of something i ones heard about a terrorist in israel. to get past some guards unnoticed, he shaved his beared...17:43
t_s_oas for some kind of national id system, it can have both good and bad uses. and thats coming from someone thats grown up with one...17:45
zapIs this page still valid: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/UserSections/ ?17:45
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zapI had the impression that non-standard sections were deprecated...17:45
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jottzap: it's the old wiki and and old article... i think the maemo packaging policy lists the valid sections under user/17:48
jottan17:48
zapsure, they are listed there too17:49
zapbut it also lists a number of useful non-standard sections too17:49
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mikkov_qwerty12_N800: I wasn't aware of other lbreakout2 port, but now reading the description I have pretty much same changes17:49
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qwerty12mikkov_: Ah, cool17:49
zapjott: I would prefer for example zip/rar/unzip/tar/bash etc to go into user/Commandline and not into user/tools17:49
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mikkov_qwerty: I am still trying to get controls more touchscreen friendly17:51
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mikkov_qwerty: there is one mouse event i wan't to get rid of17:52
jottzap: i would say it's discouraged to use unsupported sections.17:52
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fluentishi@all17:52
qwerty12mikkov_: great. I find lbreakout is a little awkward with regards to touchscreen sometimes17:53
mikkov_qwerty: how?17:54
fluentiscould somebody tell me more about the a-gps? how does it work?17:55
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qwerty12mikkov_: it can be a little odd to move around17:55
lbtin the bootmenu initfs it says "If you remove extra stuff you may write to initfs and customize bootmenu." What's that about then?17:56
qwerty12lbt: if you are on diablo, you don't need to remove extra stuff17:56
fluentisand, yes - i've read the fab manual )) just don't think it works sometimes17:56
qwerty12the customisations consist of your own bootmenu.conf, utelnetd daemon and ssh server17:56
lbtI want to multiboot diablo/chinook/debian17:56
qwerty12lbt: if your flash has diablo then17:57
lbtit does - I'll say no for now then - ta17:57
lbtis this to allow pre-boot access?17:57
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mikkov_qwerty12: if you could describe a little bit closer, i will try to fix it ;)17:58
qwerty12mikkov_: I'm sorry, I just can't seem to describe it. It may be just my imagination or my dodgy N800 touchscreen :)17:58
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mikkov_qwerty12: there is limit to 100 fps option which might have something to do with it18:00
qwerty12Hmm, interesting. I'll switch to your build later and try out the option after the tablet's finished charging. Thanks.18:01
mikkov_that option is available from options menu18:02
Cptnodegarddoes anyone have a link to the most up to date way of getting mouse support? the itt thread is a mess18:02
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jotts/thread// :)18:04
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qwerty12What's the codename for os2006?18:08
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zapgregale?18:09
qwerty12Thanks18:09
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zapJaffa: are you here? Can I ask something about mud?18:10
RST38hrm_you: here?18:10
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pupnikthe lgames have so far been quite high quality ports18:36
pupnikimo18:36
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zapwhat is lgames?18:39
qwerty12http://lgames.sourceforge.net/18:40
zapIt would be cool if they would use full screen resolution18:41
zapbut otherwise, I like them18:41
* zap currently enjoys Metal Blob Solid18:41
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bef0rddoes microb store cache files somewhere?18:53
lbtwhat package has mkfs.ext2 in it? I thought ext2utils18:53
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lbtOK, I found e2fsprogs on debian - but it's not available on Diablo18:55
GreyFoxxAnyone know either if a contact can be added to the contact list via the commandline or where the data for contacts is tored if I want to automate importing contacts from another source ?18:57
zaplbt: make one using mud-builder18:57
lbtzap, I'm doing the https://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card process (+ https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card)18:58
lbtand notice it's not in the repo18:58
lbteven adding Chinook extras18:59
qwerty12lbt: grab it from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/e/e2fsprogs/18:59
t_s_ointeresting, mitter seems able to open a new browser window pr entry double-tapped. but the rss reader and modest fails to do the same...18:59
zapso its actually in extras18:59
lbtqwerty12: at the same time I'm trying to edit the wiki18:59
qwerty12zap: That's the SDK repo18:59
zapah18:59
lbtso _I_ could make it work easily ;)18:59
lbtbut I want to make notes about the 'proper' way19:00
lbtand I'm not immersed enough (yet)19:00
lbt(and actually, I mkfs'ed the partitions on my host so I don't need it at all!)19:01
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pupnikBURRRRRRRP19:10
lbtmilhouse: are you there?19:11
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RST38h"It would appear that the US President has been briefed by Phoenix scientists about the discovery of something more "provocative" than the discovery of water existing on the Martian surface."19:29
RST38h[did they find OIL?]19:29
GreyFoxxRST: Where did you read that ?19:38
GreyFoxxok, I see it on slashdot :)19:38
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MangoFusionRST38h: they discovered his brain?19:40
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t_s_oheh, its interesting how fast a comments status can change on /., first it was funny, now its flamebait...19:42
RST38hGrey: http://www.universetoday.com/2008/08/02/the-white-house-is-briefed-phoenix-about-to-announce-potential-for-life-on-mars/19:45
RST38hMango: It is either OIL, JESUS, or OSAMA. Nothing else will interest this administration.19:46
bef0rdzombies19:51
qwerty12Community kernels can suck my dick19:54
lbtthat's JESUS19:54
qwerty12now where the fuck is my group management page19:54
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tank-manaliens19:57
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MangoFusionah so they must have found jesus entombed in the ice19:58
MangoFusionor stuck oil19:58
MangoFusionor found osama bin laden. also entombed in the ice19:58
MangoFusionor they might have found the next Nokia Internet Tablet19:58
MangoFusion;)19:58
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MangoFusionthose finn's must have discovered the transporter.20:00
MangoFusionnuke 'em!20:00
jaskawhaaat20:01
* jaska teleports to the bunker20:01
MangoFusioni'm just bouncing off conspiracy theories here20:02
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RST38hMango: Jesus in carbonite20:07
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RST38hMango: This matches both "Jesus" and "oil"20:07
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MangoFusionRST38h: hahaha20:13
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t_s_owtf?20:13
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qwerty12_N800someone kick this tosser already20:16
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RST38hSomebody kill him already20:25
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qwerty12_N800fuck off20:26
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bef0rd*roll eyes*20:32
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* Atarii sets mode: +b *!*@cs181102007.pp.htv.fi20:33
Atarii:(20:33
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qwerty12_N800lol, who tf is this cunt anywayz20:34
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t_s_oheh, where is a op when you need one? ;)20:34
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Atarii/ignore jones- JOINS QUITS20:37
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RST38h*** Ignoring ALL messages from JONES-20:42
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MangoFusionzzzzz20:44
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pupnikaua20:45
pupnikBach__J_S-Concerto_for_Violin_and_Orchestra_No_1__3-02-andante.mp320:45
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Ursinhajones-, you are being reported elsewhere twice, stop it20:46
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Ursinha*you've20:46
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UrsinhaCptnodegard, do you know any ops of this channel?20:48
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Cptnodegardhmm20:48
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Cptnodegardno20:49
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* Cptnodegard slaps Toni around a bit with a large trout20:49
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Cptnodegardhes the founder of the channel so at leats he has access20:49
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UrsinhaCptnodegard, we need a op to ban him20:50
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Ursinhasince staffers are now allowed to interfere20:50
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Ursinha*are not20:51
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Cptnodegardthats retarded20:51
Ursinhagrr20:51
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Starnestommyhe's causing network-wide issues so we will take some sort of action20:51
UrsinhaCptnodegard, maybe he's using a misconfigured irc client20:51
Cptnodegardfreenode is bad engou as it is, they should at least jhelp with this20:51
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njanCptnodegard, we're aware of it - as you can understand, we're reluctant to just resolve things with force if possible. :)20:52
njanCptnodegard, in the meantime, you're welcome to use /ignore - it should be taken care of within a couple of minutes, either way, hopefully.20:52
UrsinhaCptnodegard, that's what i was going to say20:52
Starnestommyit'll be over in a couple minutes20:52
Starnestommyactually, he's just been forced to take a break for a while so he can fix his client20:52
Cptnodegardgood :D20:53
Cptnodegardnetwork wide issues? o_020:53
njanCptnodegard, he's in several channels :)20:53
Cptnodegardah20:53
Cptnodegardback to the topic20:54
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Cptnodegardi see qwerty12 isnthere, but does anyone know how hes running xchat on os2008?20:54
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Ursinhaok, i may now go20:54
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* Ursinha waves goodbye20:54
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khertan_Hi !21:10
mouser-Hi!21:10
khertan_someone know if a registration is needed for Thursday ?21:11
mouser-Sorry, I don't know, but there's probably someone else here that does.21:12
mouser-But if you're talking about the summit, there's a link for free registration at the site.21:13
mouser-Which, double checking, it's in September, so that's likely not what you're talking about.21:14
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khertan_lol21:19
khertan_i m talking about osim21:19
mouser-qwerty12_N800: Cptnodegard was wondering how you were running XChat on os2008 about a half-hour ago.21:20
khertan_sorry don't have said it :)21:20
khertan_mouser-: xchat is available in xtras-devel, isn't it ?21:20
Cptnodegardyup i was :D21:20
Cptnodegardaccording to maemo.org its 2007 only21:20
qwerty12_N800mouser-: heh. there's a chinook version on google and diablo one is in extras-devel21:21
Cptnodegardqwerty12_N800: hows it working? perfectly?21:21
qwerty12_N800perfectly21:21
* RST38h uses xchat on diablo and it works just fine21:21
RST38hchinook version afaik21:21
qwerty12_N800properly hildonised etc21:21
Cptnodegardnice. chinook version isnt in any repo?21:22
qwerty12_N800RST38h: tbh, chinook version is the same as the diablo one 'cept the diablo one was built under diablo sdk21:22
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Cptnodegardas  a noob im scared of stuff sying "EVALUATION Software! Not for productive work!"21:24
mouser-Yeah, but as long as you backup frequently and know how to flash your device, you're probably OK.  Nothing should actually break it beyond repair, AFAIK.21:31
* qwerty12_N800 should nudge pipeline to update gtk-gnutella21:31
mouser-Could someone give me a list of the default repos that are installed in Diablo?21:32
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sp3000hrm, why am I getting in this state where I'm connecting or disconnecting to wifi or phone and I can't actually connect or disconnect21:34
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sp3000nor does visiting offline mode help21:36
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sp3000also, why did I kill the channel22:24
lbtanyone know why http://maemo.org/development/documentation/pc_connectivity/ is borked?22:26
tank-manhow so?22:32
tank-manare the instructions incorrect?22:32
sp3000hmm, I should probably diablo up my N800, shouldn't I22:33
lbtwhen I look at it, all the 'pre' or command text is missing22:33
lbtsp3000: be aware of the ongoing 'extras' issues22:33
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tank-manits a pretty long page, what is missing?22:36
lbtright at the top section: Installation to the Tablet22:36
lbtoh, wait22:37
lbtit's not displaying22:37
lbtbut when I cut'n'pasted it here22:37
lbtit was present22:37
lbtso I suspect a font problem locally22:37
lbtlet me check...22:37
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feingardenHello.  Does anyone have time for some stupid questions from a newbie 770 owner?22:54
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zapdon't ask to ask, just ask22:56
RST38hAll right, MasterGear and Virtual GameBoy uploaded to Diablo Extras22:57
feingardenGotcha.  First question.  Is 'red pill' mode persistent across resets of the device?  If not, is it persistent across installations of other software or do I have to go into 'red pill' prior to each install activity.22:57
RST38hno.no.22:58
feingardenSorry?  I have to enter 'red pill' mode prior to each installation attempt?22:58
RST38hno22:59
feingardenOkay, only once after each reset, then?22:59
RST38hyes23:00
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feingardenCool.  Thanks!23:02
t_s_oand one should not be using red pill unless its really needed...23:03
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XTLand remember to turn it off before GA finds out23:06
feingardenMakes sense.  One shouldn't use lighter fluid unless its really needed, too, and likely for the same reasons.  Sooo...23:06
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feingardenHow does one tell when it is really needed?  Is it needed to install DosBOX?23:07
zapit is needed only if you want to install packages a end-user is not expected to install normally23:08
zapsuch as developer stuff23:08
feingardenDoes Dosbox fall into that category?23:10
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RST38hIf you can't instal dosbox in blue-pill mode, you should try installing it in red-pill mode.23:12
feingardenHas anyone here successfully installed it?23:13
RST38happarently, judging from internettablettalk posts23:15
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feingardenI've started reading those, though the sheer number of them is somewhat daunting, they assume a level of device-specific knowledge that I'm still aspiring to, and they are frequently ambiguous as to which model they are referring to.23:17
feingardenPerhaps I'm trying to run prior to walking, but I'd love to have Dosbox running on my 770.  That would be awesome.23:18
t_s_ounless its on the 770 part of the forum, or from around 2005, one can expect it to be about the N800 or N810, as they have the same basic internals and run the same basic firmware23:19
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feingardenIt's in "software->gaming" which seems to cover all versions of the device.23:21
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t_s_oyou may find this page useful: http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php altho its not showing any packages for dosbox for the 770. at least not on the last official firmware. dont know about HE ones tho...23:24
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t_s_oheh, seems my 2005 comment was a bit overly old :P23:26
t_s_oah, its pupnik thats doing dosbox for maemo. should have known...23:28
nomisOk, I have a drawing area with a gstreamer xvimagesink on it and it shows the camera image nicely. However, when the widget is partially obscured and gets exposed again, the video does no longer get shown in that area. Do I have to paint the exposed area with the XV color key myself?23:28
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nomisgst_x_overlay_expose() in the drawing areas expose handler does not seem to help.23:29
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t_s_oim guessing that rubybox will only work on os2008, so thats out...23:31
feingardent_s_o:  Thanks for the link.  I'd seen the gronmayer repositories listing before, and it seems like a wonderful list of thousands of ways that I can get myself and my device into serious trouble.  pupnik is indeed the one doing dosbox, but the install instructions seem to be written to an audience more knowledgable than myself.  Perhaps I should take that as a hint...23:31
feingardenI *think* that Rubybox is merely a gui front-end, which i don't think I'll need.  I've got some Unix and some dosbox on PC experience that I should be able to leverage to get the games running once the emulator is up.23:32
RST38hit probably means that you should thoroughfully educate yourself in order to obtain knowledge necessary to follow pupnik's installation instruction and install dosbox on your device.23:32
t_s_oits not that hard really. its just that the thread on the itt forum have grown so long that while it probably started out with the 770 in focus, it have morphed into supporting the N810, without properly showing where the older stuff ends...23:32
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t_s_oare you installing the os2006 package on pupniks page, feingarden?23:33
feingardenRST: That's pretty much what i'm trying to do by asking these questions.  Starting with baby steps...  ;)23:33
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feingardent_s_o: The OS2006 package fails to install (as it did prior to my reflash) telling me that the libasound2 and libsdl-net1.2 packages are missing.  As I recall, my previous efforts to install these packages are what led to investigations into red pill modes and my device losing sound entirely.  (Mea culpa, obviously, but learning often involves mistakes.)23:38
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feingardenHowever, I now see that both of those packages are included on the Minimo - X11-Common repository, so I'll give them a try again.23:41
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Hrw|n810hi23:52
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