| mgedmin | 4200 EUR + VAT??? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| mgedmin | what's "The Independent Developer Access All Areas Pass"? | 00:01 |
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| mgedmin | does it go on top of the 4200 EUR price, or is this a 400-EUR alternative to it? | 00:01 |
| pauliukas | I have a Nokia 770 flashed with the latest version of OS 2006. | 00:01 |
| pauliukas | I'm trying to install osso xterm and I simply get a "intall failed" error | 00:02 |
| mgedmin | pauliukas: check the app installer's log | 00:02 |
| mgedmin | it's in the tools menu | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is there a log in OS2006? | 00:02 |
| pauliukas | dpkg-preconfigure: not found | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guess so | 00:03 |
| mgedmin | wasn't it always there? I'm sure it was always there | 00:03 |
| mgedmin | pauliukas: irrelevant warning, what's the next message? | 00:03 |
| pauliukas | No such file for the .install file. | 00:03 |
| pauliukas | Lemme try saving it first | 00:03 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 00:03 |
| pauliukas | uhhh | 00:05 |
| pauliukas | great. I get a completed download on opera, but it's not saved. | 00:05 |
| pauliukas | Tried saving both to local folders and the card. | 00:05 |
| mgedmin | ran out of disk space? | 00:05 |
| pauliukas | nope | 00:05 |
| pauliukas | brand new install | 00:05 |
| pauliukas | restarting opera | 00:06 |
| pauliukas | I literally just reflashed it | 00:06 |
| pauliukas | because I was having the same error befor | 00:06 |
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| pauliukas | still not there | 00:06 |
| mgedmin | can it save any other kinds of files? | 00:07 |
| mgedmin | what's the URL of this .install? | 00:07 |
| pauliukas | on maemo.org | 00:07 |
| pauliukas | download section | 00:07 |
| pauliukas | os2006 > system | 00:07 |
| pauliukas | osso x-term advanced | 00:07 |
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| * mgedmin sighs thinking about the laziness of some people | 00:08 | |
| pauliukas | now I'm getting a squid error | 00:08 |
| pauliukas | great | 00:08 |
| mgedmin | the install file itself looks okay from here | 00:09 |
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| pauliukas | trying another package | 00:11 |
| pauliukas | looks like it's working so far | 00:11 |
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| zs_ | hi, i am trying to install some packages from http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/bora/free but can't, i got incompatible application package, i downloaded armel packages, what's wrong? | 00:33 |
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| RST38h | what OS version are you using on your device? | 00:34 |
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| zs_ | 2007 | 00:34 |
| RST38h | should be ok... | 00:34 |
| Edgester | ok, I've rerun initfs_flasher after installing diablo, but now I can't boot from mmc which worked under chinook. Any advice? | 00:34 |
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| RST38h | All right, the Pokemon bug... | 00:54 |
| Navi | Woo, pokemon | 00:54 |
| Navi | GB/GBC? | 00:54 |
| RST38h | GBA | 00:54 |
| Navi | Icic | 00:54 |
| RST38h | I have not got to porting GB/GBC emulator yet | 00:54 |
| Navi | mmk | 00:55 |
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| pupnik | RST38h: i forgot if you ever answered my question about a high resolution timer on the nokias | 00:57 |
| RST38h | pupnik: I said that if it exists, usleep() and nanosleep() should make use of it | 00:57 |
| acydlord | any clue why bluetooth dun would work just fine for me in chinook and not at all in diablo? | 00:58 |
| pupnik | ah ok i look at them | 00:58 |
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| pupnik | on the gp2x there's a register you can look at, iirc | 00:58 |
| RST38h | I am sure OMAP has a similar register | 00:58 |
| RST38h | The only problem is, nobody is gonna tell us which one =( | 00:59 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: sounds like "fun" :) | 01:00 |
| pupnik | acydlord: sorry no ideas | 01:00 |
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| [A2K] | hi. i'm n00b. please give me the link. | 01:00 |
| acydlord | time to submit a bug report i guess | 01:00 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Found docs. found timers. | 01:01 |
| ralann|mbp | acydlord: i have used BT in diablo just fine | 01:01 |
| [A2K] | anyone? do you have a link for noobs? | 01:01 |
| pupnik | ! :) | 01:01 |
| lcuk | jaffa, it wasnt too bad - amsterdam i was stood around, paris i had to run between terminals, but at least i got outside and managed a cig | 01:02 |
| [A2K] | well, ok, then i have some questions. | 01:02 |
| pupnik | worked under chinook. Any advice? | 01:02 |
| pupnik | sorry | 01:02 |
| lcuk | \o pup | 01:02 |
| pupnik | hey there sur | 01:03 |
| [A2K] | how can i install something from here http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/games/ ? | 01:03 |
| RST38h | OMAP5912 | 01:03 |
| [A2K] | i press click to install and just see text in browser | 01:03 |
| lcuk | [A2K], what nokia device have you got | 01:03 |
| RST38h | must be omap3, not omap2, but I hope timers are the same | 01:03 |
| [A2K] | lcuk: n810 with diablo | 01:03 |
| lcuk | are you going to the website with your nokia | 01:03 |
| lcuk | or from your home computer | 01:03 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Schipole's a horrible airport, IMHO. Apparently the train from .nl to .de is really interesting - although 5 hours each way will mean lots of time for hacking on my laptop :) 'spose it's not much longer than a flight when you take into account check-ins etc. | 01:03 |
| [A2K] | lcuk: from nokia | 01:04 |
| zs_ | i think there is a problem with application installer in os2007 hacker edition, i have tried to install some apps from repo, and it failed because of incompatible package, but when i used dpkg -i everything is ok | 01:04 |
| RST38h | pupnik: 4 private timers. 1 OS timer at 32768Hz. 8 general purpose timers. | 01:04 |
| lcuk | jaffa :) sounds like the most relaxing part :) i was doodling the whole way back | 01:04 |
| pupnik | if you go on the ICE Jaffa be sure to reserve a seat at one of the facing-seats with a table and power outlet, and bring an outlet multiplier | 01:04 |
| lcuk | [A2K], not sure, the website might be broken | 01:05 |
| pupnik | getting power on the ICE requires some planning | 01:05 |
| RST38h | pupnik: you can run any of gp timers off the system clock so it is hires | 01:05 |
| [A2K] | :( | 01:05 |
| pupnik | RST38h: interestingk | 01:05 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Check http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/omap5912 | 01:05 |
| [A2K] | is there some manual how to create packages for maemo? | 01:05 |
| RST38h | And http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap5912.html#technicaldocuments in general | 01:06 |
| lcuk | [A2K], on the maemo site there are a full set of developer documentation | 01:06 |
| [A2K] | ok... | 01:06 |
| lcuk | part of which is packaging... | 01:07 |
| * lcuk should read it too | 01:07 | |
| lcuk | mind you, im trying to read up on svn atm | 01:07 |
| Jaffa | pupnik: right, ta for that. | 01:07 |
| [A2K] | why did not enyone still compiled openoffice for maemo? | 01:07 |
| hellwolf | When I insert a 4G SDHC card into my N800, I can't start up the machine. But I can use the SDHC card after the machine starting up successfully. :( | 01:07 |
| hellwolf | I mean as a external SD card | 01:08 |
| hellwolf | When I use the card as internal SD card, there's no such problem | 01:08 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Looks like the chip has two on-chip memory areas (OCP T1 T2) | 01:08 |
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| RST38h | One of them is the framebuffer another one is unlabeled | 01:08 |
| RST38h | I am pretty sure these are low-latency memories, so placing code into them should speed things up | 01:09 |
| pupnik | you didn't see a tech pdf like that for 2420 then... | 01:09 |
| RST38h | nope | 01:09 |
| [A2K] | is maemo just good for noobs and i have to install gentoo for professional usage? | 01:09 |
| Jaffa | [A2K]: there is no Gentoo port to the N8x0. There are alternative OSes, such as Debian, Android, Poky, Mamona, but Maemo will be your best bet in almost all probablity. | 01:10 |
| [A2K] | Jaffa: there is how-to about gentoo for arm :) | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Debian really has the best armel branch | 01:11 |
| [A2K] | but it is not so sexy as gentoo | 01:12 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Ironically, 5912 is their oldest high-perf chip | 01:12 |
| RST38h | it is pre-omap1 | 01:13 |
| pupnik | i thought TI was going to give developers more info now with their new open-source drive | 01:13 |
| kulve | isn't 5912 and omap1510 based board? thus omap1.. | 01:13 |
| RST38h | maybe | 01:13 |
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| RST38h | it is even older than omap | 01:13 |
| [A2K] | hmm.. wifi just drops and can not reconnect for third time this hour.. is there some bug? | 01:13 |
| RST38h | 1 | 01:13 |
| Jaffa | [A2K]: You might be able to get Gentoo running in a chroot then, bootstrapped by Maemo - but I'm not aware of anyone trying it. Compiling your OS on a 400MHz ARM with 128MB of RAM does not sound like a Fun Thing[TM] | 01:13 |
| RST38h | but my guess is, one can use 5912 documentation for 2420, up to some degree | 01:13 |
| pupnik | yeah, so one could go peeking at various registers and see what they do? | 01:14 |
| [A2K] | Jaffa: i have allready done this, but not on nokia ) | 01:14 |
| RST38h | pupnik: yep | 01:14 |
| RST38h | looking at 3530 data now | 01:14 |
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| pupnik | it'd also help if i were a developer. but this is definitely a help to me - ty RST38h | 01:16 |
| RST38h | For 3530 only abstracts of the documents available | 01:16 |
| acydlord | ralann|mbp, bt for files works just fine, but when i go to make a bt dun connection the n810 drops the bt at the last second | 01:16 |
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| RST38h | ....and here we have PowerVR description! | 01:17 |
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| RST38h | shit, "For more information about register descriptions, contact your TI representative." | 01:18 |
| ralann|mbp | oh yeah, forgot about that, i just use it for files | 01:18 |
| [A2K] | how that .install files work? what program handles them? | 01:19 |
| lcuk | do i have to explicitely tell svn to checkin every single new file within a folder? | 01:19 |
| lcuk | ie if i build a few classes i have to teach it each one? | 01:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: use Tortoise | 01:19 |
| [A2K] | got it.. | 01:19 |
| lcuk | on my 810? | 01:20 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: umgh | 01:20 |
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| lcuk | remember RST38h, i do all development work directly on the device | 01:20 |
| lcuk | well, i use windows editor, but compilation etc | 01:20 |
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| RST38h | ohfuckyessssss | 01:22 |
| lcuk | :P | 01:22 |
| acydlord | from personal experience it's usually mostly noobs who use gentoo, they just like to play the part of the elitest | 01:22 |
| RST38h | look what I have found: | 01:22 |
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| RST38h | http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/spruf98a | 01:23 |
| pupnik | <click> | 01:24 |
| pupnik | hah 37 MB | 01:24 |
| jott | RST38h: now if we only had this for the omap24xx :p | 01:25 |
| RST38h | jott: Again, I am pretty sure that between this one and 59xx, a lot of things will be similar in 24x0 | 01:25 |
| pupnik | ahh TI *is* opening up | 01:25 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile in liberated Afghanistan: "Two Harriers launched a strike on a huge cache of 260 tons of [hashish], stuffed in sacks of grain and buried in trenches and underground bunkers in Kandahar province in southern Afghanistan. | 01:25 |
| jott | yeah some clues might be in there.. | 01:25 |
| RST38h | not clues but direct register descriptions | 01:26 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: You can wildcard `svn add' and it even has a -R option IIRC | 01:26 |
| jott | mh | 01:26 |
| pupnik | O_o | 01:26 |
| lcuk | jaffa ahhh, so can just make sure all .c and .h files easily | 01:27 |
| * lcuk is planning imdoneforthenight.sh | 01:27 | |
| lcuk | is it easy to see and handle conflicts? | 01:28 |
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| rolfok__ | hi | 01:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, you will, of course, be demoing mediaserv alongside tablet-encode, right? :P | 01:34 |
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| [A2K] | бля, русские есть? | 01:39 |
| [A2K] | can i use two keyboard languages by switching them with some key combination? | 01:40 |
| [A2K] | i need english and russian | 01:40 |
| [A2K] | can't find how to switch them | 01:40 |
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| pupnik | that sounds like a nice feature request [A2K] | 01:41 |
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| [A2K] | O_o you want to say that simple xkb map is not default in maemo!? | 01:42 |
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| [A2K] | setxkbmap -layout "us,ru" | 01:42 |
| [A2K] | hmm | 01:42 |
| [A2K] | i'll try it now ) | 01:42 |
| [A2K] | oops.. | 01:44 |
| [A2K] | now Fn does not work | 01:44 |
| [A2K] | lol | 01:44 |
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| pupnik | no afaict it goes through gnome/hildon | 01:45 |
| pupnik | it's not just sending X keyboard events | 01:45 |
| pupnik | afk | 01:45 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: hopefully, yes :) | 01:45 |
| [A2K] | ehh.. is there irssi for maemo? | 01:45 |
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| [A2K] | or just some good irc client? | 01:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | XChat is in Extras | 01:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | irssi is around somewhere | 01:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | google. | 01:47 |
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| [A2K] | what is R&D mode? i had to enable it while flashing.. | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, why? | 01:50 |
| [A2K] | it did not want to give me root | 01:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~easyroot | 01:51 |
| infobot | [easyroot] an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com | 01:51 |
| [A2K] | :) too late | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | You asked. | 01:52 |
| [A2K] | ok, thx | 01:53 |
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| [A2K] | is there some way to disable word completition and capitilizing? | 01:56 |
| [A2K] | found it | 01:56 |
| [A2K] | great. it works. | 01:57 |
| [A2K] | i love nokia. | 01:57 |
| ralann | lol, that pissed me off the first 5minutes | 01:59 |
| [A2K] | i hate that feature on my old siemens phone -- it cant be diasbled there | 02:01 |
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| [A2K] | what is the best IM client? i need jabber and maybe icq | 02:05 |
| Raytray | pidgin will work. | 02:05 |
| t_s_o | it a updated version with fixed icq available? | 02:06 |
| Atarii | are you on 2008? | 02:06 |
| Atarii | if so you the rtcomm beta, then you get them in teh default chat program | 02:06 |
| Atarii | s/you/use | 02:06 |
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| * [A2K] is going to sell old windows-based ppc tomorrow :) | 02:10 | |
| * Jaffa beds | 02:12 | |
| kkrusty | I was hoping to talk to pupnik | 02:13 |
| kkrusty | oh well... | 02:13 |
| [A2K] | omg i found php5 package O_o | 02:17 |
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| [A2K] | i LOVE nokia! | 02:26 |
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| pupnik | hi kkrusty | 02:31 |
| pupnik | heading out the door | 02:31 |
| pupnik | what up | 02:31 |
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| kkrusty | pupnik: lcuk told me to ask you about projects on your website | 02:32 |
| pupnik | tons of things to do! | 02:33 |
| kkrusty | pupnik: I started to play with those touchme games. But then I figured "surely there must be something better to do" | 02:33 |
| kkrusty | play = play with code | 02:33 |
| pupnik | every thing needs work. pick someting you like and i give you a list of todos | 02:34 |
| kkrusty | cool | 02:34 |
| Navi | ,Ew | 02:34 |
| Navi | Work | 02:34 |
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| kkrusty | pupnik: pupnik.de? | 02:35 |
| pupnik | kkrusty: just email pupnik@pupnik.de (and please don't give out that address) | 02:36 |
| pupnik | ADHGEOAUBARSDAjlh | 02:36 |
| pupnik | that was supposed to be a PM | 02:36 |
| kkrusty | :D | 02:36 |
| * pupnik bangs head on keyboard | 02:36 | |
| pupnik | oh well | 02:36 |
| Kegetys | hopefully you have a good spam blocker :P | 02:36 |
| jott | google spam bot here we go! | 02:36 |
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| pupnik | ok i'm out | 02:37 |
| kkrusty | pupnik: ok. Thanks. I'll look into it this weekend | 02:38 |
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| Navi | poor pupnik | 02:41 |
| Navi | Expect web crawlers to pick up your email and start spamming you | 02:42 |
| kkrusty | I usually have one main address and a bunch of others that are forwards. I give away those to the masses | 02:42 |
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| bexmobile | anyone use plazer? | 05:44 |
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| yigal | If I want to use command line tools with a n8xx, mutt, irssi, newsbeuter, bash or zsh, python etc. will using the n800 be far more challenging vs. n810? | 06:05 |
| yigal | excuse me, without an external keyboard of course | 06:07 |
| yigal | that would be cheating | 06:07 |
| yigal | :) | 06:07 |
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| straind | Does anybody have a .deb for kismet? The old repository doesn't have it any longer. | 06:13 |
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| Grackle_ | Probably, yigal | 06:22 |
| Grackle_ | It's entirely possible. I wouldn't call it more 'challenging,' but it would quite likely be slower. | 06:23 |
| yigal | Grackle_: the price difference is unfortunately a huge consideration for me, I'm a poor grad. student, but this technology is really hard to pass up when vim, mutt, tex, python etc. are available in such a sexy but functional package | 06:27 |
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| Grackle_ | yigal, Yeah, I can't afford the N810 either, I got the N800. | 06:33 |
| yigal | Grackle_: is it serving you well, and what do you use it for? | 06:34 |
| derf | yigal: The hardware keyboard really isn't that great. | 06:35 |
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| Grackle_ | I find it to be more of a novelty than anything. I just like trying to get it to do different things. Recently, I got gcc and make and compiled gforth on the device. Just started make and popped it in my pocket. I went to work and when I checked it at lunchtime, I had a working forth system. | 06:35 |
| derf | The main advantage is that it doesn't take up half your screen real-estate. | 06:35 |
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| derf | The on-screen keyboard can also be reconfigured, so you can actually get a lot more of the keys. | 06:36 |
| Grackle_ | Where could I get the most money for my lightly used 770? I've considered putting it on ebay. | 06:37 |
| yigal | well that's it I'm getting an n800 | 06:38 |
| Grackle_ | I need some money for my MSI Wind fund | 06:38 |
| yigal | Grackle_: nice :), but bucks | 06:38 |
| Grackle_ | But bucks? | 06:38 |
| yigal | not so many | 06:39 |
| Grackle_ | I'm hoping I can get 100 or so. | 06:39 |
| Navi | lol | 06:39 |
| Grackle_ | But I'm not sure how likely that is. | 06:39 |
| Grackle_ | Heh, Navi laughs. :| | 06:39 |
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| yigal | does anyone here use irssi, mutt, vim, emacs with n800? | 06:40 |
| Grackle_ | I also plan on selling my HP dv500t. Hopefully I can get 400 or 450 for that. | 06:40 |
| Grackle_ | yigal, I would not use emacs. Using modifier keys with the onscreen keyboard is a pain in the ass. | 06:41 |
| Grackle_ | I'm not sure if it would even be possible | 06:41 |
| Grackle_ | vim is usable | 06:41 |
| derf | I used IRC and vim. | 06:41 |
| Grackle_ | irssi works just fine | 06:41 |
| Grackle_ | mutt ought to work fine | 06:41 |
| derf | As I said, the main problem is you really only get a couple of lines of scrollback. | 06:42 |
| yigal | good, good to hear, so a little gnu screen + those mentioned above and I'm really set, my mouth waters | 06:42 |
| derf | Yes, by "use IRC" I meant, ssh+screen+irssi. | 06:42 |
| yigal | derf: scrollback, you mean xterm keyboard history or something else | 06:43 |
| derf | yigal: I meant on IRC. | 06:43 |
| yigal | ah | 06:43 |
| yigal | derf: I imagine even with 8pt font :) | 06:44 |
| Navi | 770s go for like 50 on ebay | 06:44 |
| Grackle_ | Really Navi? I suppose I'll just keep it then. | 06:44 |
| derf | yigal: My eyes aren't that good anymore. | 06:44 |
| derf | I mean, 480 sounds like a lot of pixels, but that's really quite a high dpi... | 06:45 |
| yigal | derf: perhaps I shouldn't be so unkind to them, even though my eyes still are | 06:45 |
| Navi | 50-80 I've seen | 06:45 |
| * Grackle_ puts a few on watch | 06:45 | |
| yigal | derf: I'm getting one, it is good to read other's being able to use the device for something similar to my interest needs | 06:45 |
| Navi | using weechat on it with the font small | 06:46 |
| Navi | I loves mah high dpi | 06:46 |
| derf | Oh, it looks beautiful, no doubt. | 06:47 |
| yigal | oh, I realize the 810 is far superior trying to read with the sun, is the 800 viewable and if not can I do something to help, probably wear dark sunglasses :) | 06:48 |
| Grackle_ | I lost the stylus for my N800 a few days ago. | 06:48 |
| Grackle_ | I have the spare one around here somewhere. I need to find it. | 06:48 |
| Navi | Grackle_, ouch | 06:48 |
| yigal | Grackle_: that's not good, sorry | 06:48 |
| derf | yigal: The N800 is completely unviewable in direct sunlight. | 06:48 |
| derf | The best thing you can do is stand in the shade. | 06:49 |
| Navi | ually do | 06:49 |
| Navi | usually* | 06:49 |
| Grackle_ | You can get by standing in the shade, but really it's not made for the outdoors. | 06:49 |
| derf | Yeah, it's not a problem so much until you want to walk around with maemo mapper open. | 06:49 |
| Navi | but not so cool :( | 06:49 |
| Grackle_ | I only brought it to work a couple times (I'm a landscaper), because it's not terribly useful outside. | 06:50 |
| GreyFoxx | How viewable is the 810's screen in direct sunlight ? | 06:50 |
| Navi | indeed | 06:50 |
| GreyFoxx | I have an 810 in transit to me right now :) | 06:50 |
| Navi | It's fine | 06:50 |
| GreyFoxx | Hurray for Moms and birthday gifts :) | 06:50 |
| yigal | I'll have to buy an umbrella then perhaps :) | 06:50 |
| derf | You lose a lot of the color. | 06:50 |
| derf | But it's perfectly readable. | 06:51 |
| GreyFoxx | First time my mother has known what to buy me for once :) | 06:51 |
| Navi | I don't have an 810, but my phone had a transflective screen | 06:51 |
| GreyFoxx | derf: Sweet | 06:51 |
| Navi | Totally readable though | 06:51 |
| yigal | right, could I put something over the screen to make it readable? | 06:51 |
| Grackle_ | An umbrella. | 06:51 |
| Navi | lol | 06:51 |
| Grackle_ | :) | 06:51 |
| yigal | a little more, at least, I do a lot of stuff out doors | 06:52 |
| Grackle_ | Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do. | 06:52 |
| yigal | Grackle_: yes, but just the monitor not the whol n800 | 06:52 |
| yigal | fare enough | 06:52 |
| yigal | s/whol/&e | 06:52 |
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| Grackle_ | You might be able to find a screen protector that decreases glare or something, but that's about it. | 06:52 |
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| yigal | Grackle_: yes, I was thinking about something along those lines | 06:53 |
| yigal | Grackle_: plus dark sunglasses and an umbrella | 06:53 |
| pupnik | oh i wanted to say something clever | 06:53 |
| pupnik | what was it | 06:53 |
| Grackle_ | Oh sweet, this is the first time I've seen the update notification icon in diablo. | 06:54 |
| Grackle_ | It works nicely. | 06:54 |
| * Grackle_ Update All | 06:54 | |
| pupnik | can'tremember | 06:55 |
| Navi | I have yet tsee it | 06:55 |
| pupnik | but i did drop my n810 onto concrete and it survived | 06:55 |
| Grackle_ | hah | 06:55 |
| Navi | s/tsee/to see | 06:55 |
| pupnik | Navi you were doing some game weren't you?: | 06:55 |
| Navi | was I | 06:56 |
| Grackle_ | I dropped my N800 onto a hard floor (linoleum tile over concrete), and the battery cover and battery went flying, but it was otherwise fine. | 06:56 |
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| derf | My N800 has taken some nasty falls onto hardwood at velocity (tripping over power cord, etc.), and is no worse for wear. | 06:57 |
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| Navi | I've dropped my N800 onto ceramic tile from waist high a few times | 06:57 |
| doc|home | ^ not recommended | 06:58 |
| Navi | s'all good | 06:58 |
| yigal | I found this, so it seems not so bad, I'm definately purchasing an n800, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OEERQ0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top | 06:59 |
| derf | yigal: You want the Boxwave one. | 07:00 |
| derf | Oh, wait, that is the Boxwave one. | 07:01 |
| Navi | XD | 07:01 |
| Navi | I've had the boxwave long enoughzto where I've forgotten that the N800 screen is glossy | 07:02 |
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| qwerty12 | ~lart notepad++ for dodgy highlight and hurting my eyes at 7:00 AM | 09:05 |
| * infobot beats the living hamstercrap out of notepad++ for dodgy highlight and hurting my eyes at 7:00 AM | 09:05 | |
| qwerty12 | infobot, thanks | 09:05 |
| infobot | qwerty12: no problem | 09:05 |
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| RST38h | yawn | 09:09 |
| RST38h | qwerty: I have got automatic x3 magnification working in VGBA | 09:09 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, Brilliant! Thanks :) | 09:09 |
| RST38h | also found a bunch of datasheets on OMAP if you are interested | 09:09 |
| qwerty12 | datasheets aren't my thing, I don't know much about low level hardware stuff :) | 09:10 |
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| RST38h | There is a complete datasheet on OMAP3 and also a complete pre-OMAP1 datasheet. Of these two, you can probably approximate OMAP2 :) | 09:10 |
| qwerty12 | Ok, [if -x] means if that file exists do this etc... but what's the one for saying if that file doesn't exist? | 09:12 |
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| RST38h | inverse of that | 09:14 |
| RST38h | a moment | 09:14 |
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| RST38h | if !-x | 09:15 |
| qwerty12 | Thank you | 09:15 |
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| zap | lcuk: what you were meaning as "resolution"? Is this the physical screen resolution, or it's just the size of the buffer you're upscaling to 800x480? | 09:41 |
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| bex | does the n800 come with two memory card slots, or one? | 09:47 |
| qwerty12 | 2 | 09:48 |
| bex | hmm | 09:48 |
| bex | why do i only see one? | 09:48 |
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| qwerty12 | See one physically or software wise? | 09:49 |
| bex | physically | 09:49 |
| doc|home | bex: take out the battery | 09:49 |
| bex | oh | 09:49 |
| bex | is it under there? | 09:49 |
| doc|home | yeah, they hid it :) | 09:49 |
| bex | the other one is pretty hidden too | 09:50 |
| qwerty12 | Internal one is behind the battery cover, external slot is revealed when you open up the stand | 09:50 |
| qwerty12 | (I know, I had trouble finding the external one when I got my N800 :)) | 09:50 |
| bex | how come it doesn't eject? i had to use tweezers on the external one | 09:51 |
| doc|home | because that'd take up more space | 09:51 |
| qwerty12 | You know that sd cards have a little ridge on the end? | 09:51 |
| * doc|home used fingernails | 09:51 | |
| qwerty12 | ^ | 09:51 |
| keesj | but the fun only reall starts when you try to remove the one from the n810. I ended up attaching a tape to it | 09:51 |
| qwerty12 | Meh, the N800 battery was a nightmare to remove | 09:51 |
| keesj | bex: but you first need to push it | 09:52 |
| ShadowJK | anyone got any suggestion for /fast/ minisd cards to use with n810? | 09:53 |
| bex | i am looking for one right now | 09:53 |
| bex | trying to decide how big of one i need | 09:53 |
| bex | how big is kde? | 09:54 |
| qwerty12 | Minimum needed is 2gb | 09:54 |
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| qwerty12 | Shell scripts hate qwerty12. | 09:55 |
| bex | is there anyway to use a non-bluetooth gps with it? | 09:55 |
| qwerty12 | Set up usbhost and insmod usbserial. I think one guy on here did it. | 09:56 |
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| bex | how does that work exactly? | 09:57 |
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| qwerty12 | No idea, you end up getting a /dev/ttyS* device which maemo mapper. | 09:57 |
| bex | what is that? | 09:57 |
| bex | would i need a usb port on my gps? | 10:01 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, wikipedia says max transfer speed with *sd and SPI is 25mbit/s, I guess the card slots on N800/N810 use spi... | 10:07 |
| qwerty12 | Dunno about that but there is a kernel patch that enables a higher unsupported SD speed. | 10:08 |
| bex | how is the brand PQI? | 10:12 |
| zap | bex: if you mean a company that makes card readers & such, it's the cheapest sh*t I ever seen | 10:20 |
| bex | yeah | 10:20 |
| bex | cheap is why i was going to buy one | 10:20 |
| bex | do you mean quality wise? | 10:20 |
| zap | don't | 10:20 |
| bex | ok | 10:20 |
| zap | you'll regret :) | 10:20 |
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| bex | would this work do you think? http://www.semsons.com/blbapafgaeta.html | 10:31 |
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| zap | bex: if you're asking me, I can't look right now - disassembled my mouse into pieces :) | 10:36 |
| bex | why did you do that? | 10:36 |
| bex | and i was asking whoever is listening | 10:36 |
| bex | why is this channel so quiet with so many users? | 10:37 |
| zap | because its a channel for busy people :) | 10:37 |
| zap | but often its not so quiet | 10:37 |
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| acydlord | depends on the time of day really, since it's a global community | 10:41 |
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| qwerty12 | Wow, tar is slow. Serves me right for using it under windows >.< | 10:46 |
| zap | tar is fast | 10:47 |
| zap | windoz is slow :-P | 10:47 |
| qwerty12 | I know :) | 10:47 |
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| yigal | derf: thanks for telling me that boxwave is a good product, was away for a few hours, sorry for not thanking you sooner | 10:53 |
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| RST38h | Backup time | 11:22 |
| Saviq | guys, anyone successfully using a2dp with the remote control capabilities? I've got audio playing, but no way to pause / switch songs? | 11:22 |
| Saviq | ~/.a2dpd is set up to use kagu -remote ... | 11:22 |
| infobot | okay, Saviq | 11:22 |
| qwerty12 | infobot, forget that | 11:23 |
| infobot | i didn't have anything called 'that' to forget, qwerty12 | 11:23 |
| qwerty12 | heh :/ | 11:23 |
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| GNUton | Hi | 11:42 |
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| RST38h | Hello Gnuton | 12:29 |
| RST38h | Actually, wanted to ask: what is the magic trick to make navigation work in Maemo Mapper? | 12:29 |
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| pupnik | i'm gonna take a little trip | 12:32 |
| pupnik | down paradise's endless lawn | 12:32 |
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| pupnik | they say that travel broadens the mind | 12:33 |
| pupnik | til you can't get your head out of doors | 12:33 |
| pupnik | elvis costello - god's comic | 12:33 |
| yigal | how much should I be willing to pay for a near new condition n800? | 12:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | yigal, where are you? | 12:35 |
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| pupnik | that is decisive | 12:36 |
| pupnik | sometimes i think i've had deja-vu before | 12:36 |
| bex | is that deja-vu deja-vu? | 12:37 |
| pupnik | yeah | 12:43 |
| GNUton | hey RST38h | 12:43 |
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| qwerty12 | Ok, these are the cflags I'm using, any dodgy ones?: | 12:46 |
| qwerty12 | -mcpu=arm1136jf-s -mtune=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -mabi=aapcs-linux -s -pipe -O3 -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fforce-addr -fforce-mem -falign-loops=2 -funroll-loops -msoft-float -fstrict-aliasing -mstructure-size-boundary=32 -fexpensive-optimizations -fweb -frename-registers -falign-functions=32 -falign-labels -falign-jumps -finline -finline-functions -funroll-all-loops --param max-unrolled-insns=60 | 12:46 |
| qwerty12 | (all copied from this channel :P) | 12:47 |
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| RST38h | funroll-loops is unsafe | 12:49 |
| qwerty12 | Okie, thanks, removing now. | 12:49 |
| RST38h | may also slow things down | 12:49 |
| RST38h | at least on a meager ARM | 12:49 |
| RST38h | same with unroll-all-loops - you definitely do not want it | 12:50 |
| yigal | GeneralAntilles: In America | 12:50 |
| RST38h | remove --param as well | 12:50 |
| zap | -mabi too | 12:50 |
| RST38h | yea, no need for mabi | 12:50 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, ok, thank you RST38h & zap | 12:51 |
| zap | and -fforce-addr, -fforce-mem | 12:51 |
| zap | no need to be smarter than -O* | 12:51 |
| RST38h | what are force- flags? | 12:51 |
| zap | those are enfoced by miscelaneous -Ox | 12:51 |
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| zap | various optimizations | 12:51 |
| zap | basically everything that's safe is enabled with -O3 | 12:51 |
| zap | and if it's not enabled, I wouldn't recommend it - gcc developers know better than you | 12:52 |
| RST38h | I would just leave floating point settings and delete the rest | 12:52 |
| zap | -finline-functions could be a cpu I-cache killer too | 12:52 |
| pupnik | are -O3 flags optimized for arm? | 12:52 |
| zap | they are optimized for everything | 12:52 |
| RST38h | It is known that floating point stuff has to be tweaked | 12:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | yigal, personally, I wouldn't go over $200. | 12:52 |
| pupnik | well then no, they are not optimized for arm | 12:52 |
| RST38h | pupnik: it is an arm tool chain :) | 12:52 |
| RST38h | so O3 is most likely optimized for arm :) | 12:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | yigal, it depends a bit on the time you want to put in, though. | 12:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you just want to get it _now_, then you may end up a bit over $200. | 12:53 |
| zap | pupnik: every machine-specific code in gcc can override -Ox options and enable their preferred optimizations | 12:53 |
| RST38h | A new one is $235 | 12:53 |
| RST38h | + shipping. So not sure if going over $200 is a good idea | 12:53 |
| zap | I would assume gcc/arm developers know that | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | $299 at Amazon, RST38h. | 12:53 |
| pupnik | ok ty | 12:53 |
| RST38h | That is at Amazon | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Where is your $235? | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nobody else has them in stock | 12:53 |
| pupnik | i've seen -Os run faster than -O3 | 12:54 |
| zap | I also see no meaning to use both -msoft-float and -mfpu=vfp together | 12:54 |
| zap | pupnik: that happens not only on arm | 12:54 |
| RST38h | GA: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=n800&btnG=Search+Products&cid=3395770308078996794&scoring=p | 12:54 |
| RST38h | GA: One of them will definitely have it in stock :) | 12:54 |
| zap | its because embedded devices likes small code (small CPU caches) | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I went through that list yesterday | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | bunch of fly-by-night retailers | 12:55 |
| pupnik | 32kB data, 32kB instruction | 12:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'll pass, thanks. | 12:55 |
| zap | yep, damn little caches | 12:55 |
| zap | PCs have 2-4Mb nowadays | 12:55 |
| zap | and had 128k in the worst times | 12:55 |
| RST38h | Well, even if we ignore Brooklyn ghost shops, there are still quite a few left | 12:55 |
| kulve | zap: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2008/05/17/gcc-options-and-floating-point/ | 12:55 |
| RST38h | Example: http://www.thenerds.net/NOKIA.Nokia_N800_Internet_Tablet.0276316.html?affid=8&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0276316^~^NOKIA | 12:55 |
| pupnik | i'm quite happy with performance on ARM, but there are a couple of emulators that are designed assuming those larger caches | 12:56 |
| zap | kulve: <<Looks like the default for -mfpu is vfp and the default for -mfloat-abi is soft>> | 12:56 |
| pupnik | particularly dosbox | 12:56 |
| RST38h | http://www.despercia.com/nokia-n800.html?utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=Comparison+site&utm_term=Nokia+N800&utm_campaign=Nokia+N800 (I would call this one on the phone though) | 12:56 |
| RST38h | pupnik: the cache thing - unavoidable in a lot of applications | 12:57 |
| RST38h | pupnik: when CPU manufacturer tells you how fast his CPU is, always ask about memory bus performance and cache sizes | 12:57 |
| RST38h | Because about 75% of really useful applications will require at least 512kB cache to run fast, OR fast SDRAM bus | 12:58 |
| pupnik | yeah... our limit is mainly power consumption | 12:59 |
| kulve | modern cpus start to use little power when the power management in the sw side works properly.. | 13:00 |
| RST38h | it is a trade off between power and memory speed, yes | 13:00 |
| RST38h | kulve: you are forgetting that once you start something like dosbox, there is no way to use 'little power' as your cpu runs in a busy loop | 13:01 |
| RST38h | So, the power management stuff mainly applies to situations where device is not doing anything anyway | 13:01 |
| kulve | most apps are idle most of the time. Apps that aren't, needs to be fixed. I don't see why an emulator would be any different from that.. | 13:02 |
| kulve | ofc, e.g. playing video on a low end device like n8x0, will take all the cpu there is and then there's nothing one can do | 13:03 |
| kulve | emulators tend to need also quite a lot of cpu power, but I'm not really familiar with them.. | 13:04 |
| kulve | but when playing e.g. oggs on n8x0 it's idle 80% of the time | 13:05 |
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| pupnik | sounds about right | 13:10 |
| pupnik | i can't speculate about what circumstances might allow an emulator to go idle | 13:13 |
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| pupnik | but i'm quite sure they're so seldom that it is not worth coding-for | 13:13 |
| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 13:14 |
| pupnik | ciao | 13:14 |
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| yigal | GeneralAntilles: ok, then I will try to less than $220, not too much work for this price but not so bad either | 13:22 |
| yigal | GeneralAntilles: thank you | 13:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sure | 13:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wish they hadn't discontinued it. . . . :\ | 13:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia really needs to always have a tablet in that price range. | 13:22 |
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| yigal | GeneralAntilles: I was shocked at the n810's price, couldn't stomache it but then I realized the n800 is almost as good, except for the glossy screen - which I can cover - so I am happy once again | 13:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eh, the N800 started at $400 | 13:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Really, $200 is a fantastic deal, and $350 is a good deal. ;) | 13:26 |
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| yigal | GeneralAntilles: I'm poor so I'm glad the n800 is around :) | 13:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | and both screens are glossy | 13:27 |
| bex | can anyone recommend a cheap bluetooth gps receiver? | 13:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The N810's is just transflective. | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | bex, get an MTK-based i-Blue or Holux | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | i-Blue 737 is nice | 13:27 |
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| bex | to use with my n800 | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | or 770, or N810 | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't matter. | 13:28 |
| bex | k | 13:28 |
| bex | why those 2? | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because those are the best brands | 13:28 |
| bex | oh ok | 13:28 |
| bex | i didn't even know what these strange "gps receivers" with no display were when i first saw them | 13:29 |
| pupnik | gotta run | 13:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Later, pupnik. :) | 13:29 |
| bex | if i am going to be downloading maps, what size sd card do you think i'll need? | 13:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | 4-8GB is in the good price range right now | 13:30 |
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| bex | well it only holds 8gb i believe | 13:32 |
| bex | is that per slot or total do you know? | 13:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Er, the hardware can handle up to 2048GB | 13:32 |
| bex | that's not what the nseries site says | 13:32 |
| bex | oh i meant for the n800 not the gps | 13:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, well, they don't know what they're talking about. ;) | 13:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia just tested the N800 when 8GB was about the most available. | 13:33 |
| bex | oh | 13:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | It has SDHC support, so it supports anything SDHC | 13:33 |
| bex | ok | 13:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which goes up to 2048GB | 13:33 |
| bex | that's good to know | 13:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You can drop two 32GB cards in there right now without issue. | 13:33 |
| bex | wow | 13:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Assuming you have $300 to drop on two 32GB cards, that is. | 13:34 |
| bex | yeah | 13:34 |
| bex | i think i will have no use for my ipod now | 13:34 |
| bex | well i guess it's smaller | 13:34 |
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| bex | is there any kind of wifi locator that works with os2008? | 13:36 |
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| bex | i tried using plazer but it didnt work | 13:36 |
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| fnordianslip | hi all. | 13:42 |
| fnordianslip | after upgrading to diablo and buggering about with loads of stuf, i notice that canola2 has no text visible. any ideas? | 13:43 |
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| tuukkah | where can i see an example of what i should and could have in sources.list on diablo? | 14:28 |
| bex | how do you even edit sources.list? | 14:30 |
| tuukkah | for example, i'm puzzled that there's no http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/free/ | 14:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list | 14:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://pastebin.ca/1062953 | 14:30 |
| tuukkah | bex, you can use the application manager repository config, or a text editor like vi | 14:30 |
| bex | yeah i had to do it through the application manager | 14:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, tuukkah, why? | 14:31 |
| bex | it doesn't come with a default text editor , does it? | 14:31 |
| tuukkah | bex, there's vi | 14:31 |
| bex | k | 14:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | tuukkah, that'd be deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free | 14:31 |
| tuukkah | GeneralAntilles, i was missing a lot of packages and they're in http://repository.maemo.org/dists/chinook/free/ | 14:31 |
| tuukkah | GeneralAntilles, sorry, i meant such a uri doesn't exist | 14:32 |
| tuukkah | (... returns 404) | 14:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | This is what you're after: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/ | 14:32 |
| tuukkah | that's where i try to install nano and less from =) | 14:32 |
| tuukkah | GeneralAntilles, extras seems to be different from non-extras, at least in the case of chinook | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Non-extras is the SDK repo. . . . | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | [7:31am] <GeneralAntilles> tuukkah, that'd be deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free | 14:33 |
| tuukkah | GeneralAntilles, that one for chinook works, but for diablo it gives a 404 | 14:34 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs. | 14:34 | |
| GeneralAntilles | http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/sdk/free/ | 14:34 |
| tuukkah | ok so /dists/diable/sdk corresponds to /dists/chinook ? | 14:37 |
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| tuukkah | plus /dists/diablo/tools - that's where nano seems to be | 14:37 |
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| tuukkah | how do i write that in sources.list? | 14:39 |
| tuukkah | ok, deb http://repository.maemo.org diablo/tools free non-free | 14:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/development/tools/ | 14:41 |
| tuukkah | found it, thanks | 14:41 |
| * lcuk is melting his head with svn | 14:41 | |
| tuukkah | looks good, now there's only the "(expected diablo but got )" warning | 14:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody else notice an updated tablet-browser-daemon? | 14:43 |
| lcuk | i havent even got diablo yet so thats unlikely | 14:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, you're obviously excluded from that question. :P | 14:44 |
| lcuk | \o/ | 14:44 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk, didn't you reflash a couple days ago ? | 14:46 |
| bex | GeneralAntilles: what is the collabora repository? | 14:46 |
| crashanddie | O HAI LCUK btw | 14:46 |
| lcuk | no crashanddie, i thought about it when it was quiet | 14:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's got the telepathy plugins for rtcomm. | 14:46 |
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| bex | is pidgin the best chat program to use? | 14:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not in my opinion | 14:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | big and bloaty and unpleasant | 14:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | use the built-in one, instead. | 14:48 |
| bex | but that one only uses jabber doesnt it? | 14:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | and SIP and GTalk | 14:51 |
| beavis | it doesnt | 14:51 |
| bex | or google talk | 14:51 |
| bex | yeah | 14:51 |
| beavis | and and and.. | 14:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | but the collabora repo contains the telepathy plugins | 14:51 |
| bex | not aim? | 14:51 |
| beavis | aim too | 14:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | So just install the appropriate plugins from that repository. | 14:51 |
| bex | oh | 14:52 |
| bex | is that what it does? | 14:52 |
| bex | i don't understand what the telepathy plugins are for | 14:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | They add services for rtcomm. | 14:54 |
| bex | i guess i will find out in a minute | 14:54 |
| bex | well i installed haze but i don't know what it did | 14:57 |
| bex | i don't know what rtcomm is | 14:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | account-telepathy-plugin too | 14:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the built-in chat framework. . . . | 14:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ | 14:57 |
| tuukkah | i would add the sources.list lines to the new wiki, but i don't know where. any suggestions? | 14:59 |
| bex | oh sweet | 14:59 |
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| crashanddie | ~curse g++ | 15:01 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, g++ ! | 15:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | tuukkah, don't. | 15:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too user and version specific | 15:01 |
| bex | what is the best program for video calls? | 15:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | bex, depends | 15:02 |
| bex | are any of them free to call a line? | 15:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | rtcomm with GTalk, Gizmo or aMSN. | 15:02 |
| bex | gtalk has video? | 15:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | tablet-to-tablet | 15:02 |
| bex | i thought i heard gizmo was free to call regular phones | 15:03 |
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| crashanddie | depends which country you're in, I guess | 15:03 |
| bex | US | 15:03 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, isn't it a bit early for you to be on IRC on a Saturday morning? | 15:03 |
| tuukkah | GeneralAntilles, ok. thanks for your help! | 15:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Quite possibly, crashanddie. ;) | 15:04 |
| bex | does anyone know if maemoscrobbler works with canola2? | 15:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, Canola2 has a last.fm plugin. . . . | 15:10 |
| bex | oh | 15:12 |
| bex | i did not see many options in it | 15:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It scrobbles. | 15:12 |
| tuukkah | ouch, any workarounds for Bug 2772: Metalayer Crawler adds all oggs from Map application (with large CPU and memory usage) | 15:12 |
| bex | yeah but where do you put in your login info | 15:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | In settings, maybe? | 15:13 |
| bex | nope | 15:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yep. | 15:13 |
| bex | maybe i have to find the plugin/ | 15:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, like I said, it's a plugin | 15:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | It has to be installed | 15:13 |
| bex | oh ok | 15:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's in Extras | 15:13 |
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| kulve | tuukkah: not an easy one. You can open the metalayer's sqlite db and change the mime type | 15:15 |
| kulve | tuukkah: https://garage.maemo.org/forum/message.php?msg_id=4089 | 15:16 |
| tuukkah | kulve, stopping metalayer crawler is "invoke-rc.d metalayer-crawler0 stop"? | 15:20 |
| kulve | yeah, I think so | 15:21 |
| bex | hmmm i still don't see it in settings | 15:22 |
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| lardman | "morning" | 15:25 |
| * lcuk passes lardman a brew | 15:25 | |
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| lardman | not special- I trust :) | 15:26 |
| lcuk | of course not | 15:26 |
| lcuk | my eldest made me a coffee this morning and it was like water | 15:27 |
| lcuk | hows your optimization coming lardman | 15:27 |
| tuukkah | thanks kulve, a nice hack! | 15:27 |
| lardman | lcuk: I've re-written the code to use a thread and shared memory, time to compile and see where the mistakes are | 15:28 |
| kulve | tuukkah: np :) | 15:28 |
| lcuk | its a shame its so blind, any luck in finding anything timing related | 15:29 |
| lardman | lcuk: no, afraid not | 15:29 |
| lcuk | booo | 15:29 |
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| lcuk | right, moving to 810 - youngest is wanting to play puzzlefarter | 15:29 |
| lardman | lcuk: I might have to just run bits of code to test them, but it's time consuming writing a test harness which will feed in valid data, etc | 15:29 |
| lcuk | yer i know that feeling - early on i had to find timing info. have you considered posting to the dsp ML? | 15:30 |
| lardman | lcuk: I didn't get much joy the last time I posted there | 15:31 |
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| lcuk2 | thats abit of a shame, does ssvb know anything about the dsp, or otherrs | 15:32 |
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| lardman | ssvb has done some testing, kulve has too | 15:33 |
| lcuk2 | i wonder where all the dsp coders hangout | 15:34 |
| lardman | they probably have to do some much during the day that they don't want to do any in their spare time :) | 15:36 |
| lcuk2 | lol | 15:36 |
| lcuk2 | isnt that the same with a lot of what we do | 15:37 |
| lardman | well I don't do DSP programming for my day job, so perhaps I am willing to do it at other times | 15:38 |
| lcuk2 | im trying to get my head around svn at the mo | 15:38 |
| lcuk2 | i dont do anything like this in my dayjob, but would be more than happy to | 15:39 |
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| lardman | lcuk2: what do you need to know about svn? | 15:40 |
| lardman | hi qwerty12_N800 | 15:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi lardman | 15:40 |
| lcuk2 | lardman, basically everything, im trying to learn whats needd without screwing up my own code or the garage repo | 15:41 |
| lcuk2 | ive made the mistake of playing with git first and am liking what i am seeing | 15:41 |
| lardman | svn add, svn commit | 15:42 |
| lardman | svn delete | 15:42 |
| lardman | all pretty easy | 15:42 |
| lcuk2 | how do i tell it who i am | 15:42 |
| lardman | you have to add the code to the repo first, then extract it somewhere, and use it from there | 15:42 |
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| lardman | what's your Garage url? | 15:43 |
| lcuk2 | ummm its under liqbase | 15:43 |
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| sp3000 | shouldn't it generally pick that up from login | 15:43 |
| lcuk2 | am on 810 sp its hard to grab | 15:43 |
| lardman | https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=716 | 15:43 |
| sp3000 | 'user' heh | 15:44 |
| lardman | ah, doesn't say how to create it | 15:44 |
| lardman | http://artis.imag.fr/~Xavier.Decoret/resources/svn/index.html for example, you want to import an existing project | 15:44 |
| lardman | svn import /trunk/liqbase/ file://home/gary/liqbase/ -m "Initial import" | 15:45 |
| sp3000 | but I suppose it should pick it up from the login to the other end, no? | 15:45 |
| lcuk2 | yer sp3000, but im gonna need to tell it who i am.. ill read that when i get big machine back | 15:45 |
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| lardman | X-Fade: ping | 15:46 |
| lardman | X-Fade: might be worth having a "how to get your code into SVN in Garage" page somewhere | 15:46 |
| lcuk2 | lol lardman, this would prob be easier if i had //n810/dev/liqbase available | 15:47 |
| lcuk2 | ive got tortoise on windows | 15:47 |
| lcuk2 | i think there is, its just the command line that scares me | 15:47 |
| lardman | lcuk2: Windows? How do you compile? On the N810? | 15:47 |
| lcuk2 | yer | 15:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | https://wiki.maemo.org/Getting_started_with_Maemo_Garage#Establishing_SVN | 15:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | may help | 15:48 |
| lcuk2 | :) hence the difficulties | 15:48 |
| lardman | Well you could probably find a GUI client for windows that makes life easier | 15:48 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N800: thanks, I'd not seen that before | 15:48 |
| lcuk2 | but i cant find a free sshfs now can i get ummm network sharing working | 15:49 |
| lcuk2 | nor can i get | 15:49 |
| lcuk2 | i think its just ima hacker not a project manager | 15:50 |
| * lcuk2 knows his limits | 15:50 | |
| lardman | svn's worth it once you set it up, then you just type commit and up go your changes | 15:50 |
| lardman | nice and easy | 15:50 |
| lardman | pita to work out how to do it first time though :) | 15:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk2, I think winscp does sshfs | 15:51 |
| lcuk2 | yer and not being able to spread around and play first is doubly unhelpful | 15:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, stick up a wiki page? | 15:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, qwerty12 linked it. | 15:52 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: qwerty12_N800 just pointed out a page | 15:52 |
| sp3000 | this reminds me, I should learn to not suck at git | 15:52 |
| lcuk2 | qwerty, yes but not integrated as a windows drive that i can use tortoise on | 15:52 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: I'll ask X-Fade to stick a link to that page on the SCM page in the Garage projects | 15:52 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk2, ah, i see, i'll look around | 15:52 |
| lcuk2 | sp git was easy for me to setup and quick from the basic tests ive looked at | 15:52 |
| sp3000 | like, squashing away commits that turned out to be broken | 15:53 |
| lardman | I think they are probably much of a muchness for these small projects with very few contributors | 15:53 |
| lardman | The OE mailing list had lots of discussion about what to use a few years back | 15:54 |
| lcuk2 | well it seems logical and the repo is just self contained in the project | 15:54 |
| * GeneralAntilles guesses he doesn't have commit access to the adv-backlight svn. | 15:54 | |
| * GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you with a stick. | 15:54 | |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: So you going to come over for the Berlin do? | 15:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Highly unlikely | 15:55 |
| tuukkah | are there better ideas than to have /home/user/MyDocs as a symlink to /media/mmc2/MyDocs? i don't quite see how the special dirs are supposed to be used | 15:55 |
| lcuk2 | boooooo gen | 15:55 |
| lcuk2 | apply | 15:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't want to get in the way of somebody who's actually going to be able to go. | 15:55 |
| lcuk2 | but gen, you have done a great deal of good in this community | 15:56 |
| lcuk2 | we all wanna buy you a beer | 15:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | There'll be other get togethers. :P | 15:56 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: We'll do a whip around for a passport | 15:56 |
| lcuk2 | isnt reggie american | 15:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 15:57 |
| lardman | it's a long flight in a suitcase | 15:57 |
| lcuk2 | sneak in his luggage | 15:57 |
| lardman | :) | 15:57 |
| lcuk2 | heh | 15:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Still doesn't fix scheduling. :P | 15:57 |
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| lcuk2 | ok gen, i know it conflicts with your furries conference, but for one year they will just have to find themselves another mascot | 15:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | <_< | 15:59 |
| lardman | lcuk2: I've got a conference that week too, I'll have to see if I can escape in time to go for a couple of days | 15:59 |
| lcuk2 | oooer lard, its the fri/sat that maemo part is isnt it | 16:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | 19th/20th | 16:00 |
| lardman | yeah, I'm not sure if my conf finishes on Thursday or Friday though | 16:01 |
| lcuk2 | we wll just put a cardboard cutout of you and gen up on stage | 16:01 |
| lcuk2 | record your tracks and playback with an 800 head | 16:02 |
| Atarii | is there a guide to compiling on the device? | 16:03 |
| lardman | hmm, I'll have to think of something to talk about too | 16:03 |
| Atarii | (for noobs) | 16:03 |
| lardman | Atarii: ask lcuk2, he seems to like that sort of madness ;) | 16:03 |
| lcuk2 | at leasr this time i have something to say | 16:03 |
| lcuk2 | atarii, ill chat to you in a bit if you remind me, its tough on nit typing | 16:04 |
| lcuk2 | i still feel like a noob | 16:04 |
| lcuk2 | there is so mjch i still dont know and not enough time to learn | 16:04 |
| lardman | that's life | 16:05 |
| lardman | it's a case of choosing wisely | 16:05 |
| lcuk2 | ive got a load of partial modules needing my attention - liqbase as you have are just the stable element | 16:05 |
| lcuk2 | but i need to get it up on svn so others can try to do the bits i cant - packaging initially | 16:06 |
| qwerty12_N800 | packaging is quite easy :) (but I'm a dodgy packager so you know...) | 16:08 |
| lcuk2 | i alsothink ive found a way to add new modules without having to go to a central location to teach the app whats available | 16:08 |
| lcuk2 | ie to grow new features quickly without effecting anything else | 16:09 |
| lcuk2 | yer qwerty but on 810 i donthave all tools available | 16:09 |
| lcuk2 | hence the interest in andlinux | 16:10 |
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| Atarii | lcuk, it would be helpful to get a nudge in the right direction later on please, what i need to install to get started etc | 16:11 |
| lcuk2 | ok np | 16:11 |
| Atarii | i can keep busy atm converting my "2in1" adapter so it fits in my 770 | 16:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Isn't there an on-device sdk package, now, that'll get you started pretty well? | 16:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hmm, once you got a proper debian folder set up, you may be able to just dpkg-buildpackage off the device (not sure what deps would be needed though) | 16:11 |
| lcuk2 | it will help me as well, ill talk and document whwile im goiing it should be on the wiki | 16:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk2++ ;) | 16:12 |
| lcuk2 | buildpackage isntt avail | 16:12 |
| Atarii | im hoping to learn so i can compile the rt73 drivers on it | 16:12 |
| lcuk2 | gen, i need it documenting for when i change to diablo | 16:12 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, it shouldn't be hard to compile :), if someone wont do it, i'll try later | 16:13 |
| lcuk2 | atarii, big projects dont work to well, there is no autoconf tools | 16:13 |
| lcuk2 | qwerty i gthink its the other deps | 16:14 |
| * qwerty12_N800 goes on debian packages to check them out | 16:14 | |
| lcuk2 | autoconf was a killer for me, it wanteddto replace debiantools which would have vaped everything | 16:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | remind me later, i'll hack up a package that doesn't interfere | 16:15 |
| qwerty12_N800 | (do you use diablo or chinook sdk?) | 16:15 |
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| lcuk2 | at the mo im in chinook but that will change | 16:16 |
| lcuk2 | right, im gonna grab some breakfast, thanks for the chat guys at least i know i have some direction ill readback in a bit and followup on stuff | 16:17 |
| qwerty12_N800 | breakfast? :p | 16:18 |
| lcuk2 | heh | 16:18 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I see what you mean about dpkg-buildpackage, i could build the stuff but then you have busybox problem. | 16:19 |
| lcuk2 | .. | 16:20 |
| lcuk2 | i forgot i could walkaround with this | 16:20 |
| lcuk2 | ive never taken you lot around my crib before :p | 16:21 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | :p | 16:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, I always have my N800 in my pocket when I'm at home. | 16:22 |
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| lcuk2 | i do as well but i dont useinternet normally i sketch and plan | 16:23 |
| lcuk2 | i lookd back through it all lastnight - im tempted to do microsketch twittering | 16:23 |
| lcuk2 | gen, how do you make sure you dont break it, ive got mine in a semihard pda pouch | 16:27 |
| * lcuk2 still curses missus for losing his | 16:27 | |
| * lardman thinks of a fry up | 16:28 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Break it? | 16:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're pretty durable | 16:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't keep my keys in that pocket for one thing, though. | 16:29 |
| lcuk | im always afraid of walking into the corner of a desk with it | 16:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | and I have the softcase it shipped with in my pocket all the time. | 16:29 |
| lcuk | ive got a nasty couple of scratches on it | 16:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol . . . | 16:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Learn to walk? :P | 16:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Screen faces towards my thigh, though. | 16:30 |
| lcuk | :P | 16:30 |
| lcuk | shit happens | 16:30 |
| lardman | it's hard when you walk like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wippooDL6WE | 16:31 |
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| Atarii | classic | 16:32 |
| lcuk | lardman :) typically english | 16:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I should probably uninstall the Flash 10 beta | 16:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | it didn't fix the flash-lockups and managed to completely break YouTube | 16:34 |
| lcuk | and you are right, my nokia would be deceased before to long | 16:34 |
| lcuk | "i have a silly program, and i'd like to obtain a nokia grant to help me to develop it" ;) | 16:35 |
| crashanddie | only one grant | 16:37 |
| crashanddie | ? | 16:37 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, :) start small | 16:38 |
| crashanddie | and some guy at Nokia is going "ONE GRANT ??? YOU CALL THAT SMALL ?" | 16:38 |
| lcuk | they dont know how many zeros it has yet, the beancounters will have a haertattack :D | 16:39 |
| lcuk | and a heartattack as well | 16:39 |
| crashanddie | heh | 16:39 |
| crashanddie | now there's an idea | 16:39 |
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| t_s_o | do beancounter even have hearts? | 16:51 |
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| lcuk | t_s_o, yes, but they are typically made of stone | 16:52 |
| t_s_o | hmm, explosives then... | 16:52 |
| sp3000 | what else would they count on a full moon | 16:52 |
| lcuk | i think up until recently the best way to send shockwaves through a beancounter would be to tell them their codebase is being GPLed | 16:53 |
| lcuk | right im actually going to cook my bacon now, ill b back later | 16:54 |
| Atarii | i just had a bacon wrap | 16:58 |
| Atarii | its like your my brother from another mother | 16:58 |
| lardman | enough of the talk about bacon, it's disturbing my concentration, I'm being pulled to the kitchen.... | 17:00 |
| * GeneralAntilles eats a tuna melt. | 17:02 | |
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| lcuk2 | lardman, what i want to know is why have you got 'bacon' setup as a highlight phrase in xchat :p | 17:02 |
| lardman | lol | 17:02 |
| lardman | I do a whois on every bacon phrase and work out how long it would take to get there :) | 17:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 17:03 |
| lcuk2 | lol | 17:03 |
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| pupnik | http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6vW2uWsro0 This Mortal Coil - Another Day | 17:19 |
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| * lardman is feeling brain-fade | 17:57 | |
| lcuk | heh i just typed "arghhhhhhhh" for exactly the same reason | 17:57 |
| lardman | I didn't think this shared memory sync stuff would take quite such brain power to work out the process | 17:58 |
| lcuk | is it bad of me to consider waiting until i am with people at the summit to get hands on help sorting out the svn? | 17:58 |
| lardman | install svn on your N810 and just follow the command line instructions? | 17:59 |
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| qwerty12 | Pray? | 17:59 |
| lcuk | i think it is lard, but the instructions talk about setting up proxy repos and not actually updating from where i dev | 18:00 |
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| lardman | ah, forget that stuff | 18:01 |
| lardman | I develop directly in my local checkout | 18:01 |
| lardman | with a backup of course :) | 18:01 |
| lcuk | but lardman, wont that upset your mojo if other devs start working and you are part way through editing something | 18:02 |
| lardman | perhaps, but it's not an issue atm | 18:02 |
| lcuk | the proxy gives you the space to grab and see the changes to other locations without impacting your working layout | 18:02 |
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| lardman | well that's easy enough, you could do it manually | 18:03 |
| lcuk | im sure it is, im just not that confident with it all yet. maybe i need more wine | 18:03 |
| lardman | in the first instance it will only be you using it, so just give it a go | 18:04 |
| lardman | hmm, wine | 18:04 |
| lardman | need to drive later so best not :) | 18:04 |
| * lcuk pours you a virtual glass anyway | 18:05 | |
| lcuk | ok lardman :) ill give it a try and see if i can just configure and update directly | 18:06 |
| lardman | cool | 18:06 |
| lcuk | how did you tell svn who you are and stuff | 18:07 |
| lardman | --username developername | 18:08 |
| lardman | it will then ask for your password | 18:08 |
| lcuk | but i dont have to put that in the command line each time | 18:08 |
| lardman | only when you create or checkout for the first time | 18:08 |
| lardman | after that it's saved in the metadata (hidden dir) | 18:09 |
| lcuk | ok, as long as i can transfer myself to a big machine when i get funds to get one | 18:09 |
| lardman | oh yeah, you can just abandon your checkout (after "svn commit"'ing any changes and check out somewhere else | 18:10 |
| lcuk | i get the feeling im gonna break the internet today | 18:11 |
| lardman | lol I was a bit worried that I'd knacker the svn server when I started | 18:12 |
| lardman | ~lart segfaults | 18:12 |
| * infobot runs at segfaults with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut | 18:12 | |
| lardman | can I do this: while(*(sbc->input_flag)==1) | 18:14 |
| lardman | where input_flag is a pointer to a short | 18:15 |
| lardman | or do I need to do some casting? | 18:15 |
| derf | No, that's fine as-is. | 18:15 |
| lardman | hmm, my segfault must be coming from something else | 18:15 |
| lcuk | might not be | 18:16 |
| derf | What's the value of the pointer? | 18:16 |
| lcuk | if the pointer is out of scope | 18:16 |
| derf | Or of sbc, for that matter. | 18:16 |
| lcuk | yer.. | 18:16 |
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| lcuk | while(sbc && sbc->input_flag && *sbc->input_flag==1) | 18:17 |
| derf | No, that's dumb. | 18:17 |
| lardman | sbc must exist | 18:17 |
| lardman | and it does, as the rest of the code works | 18:17 |
| lcuk | i know, but it confirms each step is valid | 18:17 |
| derf | You need to _understand_ why something might become NULL before you start throwing in random NULL checks. | 18:17 |
| lardman | I'll output the values and see what's going on | 18:17 |
| lardman | lcuk: will be slow too | 18:17 |
| lcuk | i know it will be slow | 18:18 |
| derf | Segfaults let you know that you don't understand something about your code. Papering over the symptoms is not the correct way to fix it. | 18:18 |
| lcuk | those are simply all the things needing checking before using the single *==1 check | 18:18 |
| lardman | out of interest, is *sbc->input_flag the same? | 18:19 |
| lcuk | yes | 18:20 |
| derf | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations#Mathematical_precedence | 18:21 |
| lardman | WaitForInputBuffer: sbc=3197269200 | 18:21 |
| lardman | WaitForInputBuffer: *sbc=0 | 18:21 |
| lardman | WaitForInputBuffer: sbc->input_flag=4294967295 | 18:21 |
| lardman | derf: thanks | 18:21 |
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| lardman | apparently a segfaul on the line which was to print the value of *(sbc->input_flag) | 18:22 |
| derf | Suggesting it's not a valid pointer. | 18:22 |
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| derf | (and giving the lie to lcuk's assumption that anything non-NULL is valid) | 18:23 |
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| derf | Man, that Wikipedia list doesn't include the comma operator. | 18:23 |
| derf | They should be ashamed of themselves. | 18:23 |
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| fnordianslip | isn't 4294967295 = -1 ? | 18:24 |
| lardman | ah, might well be | 18:24 |
| derf | Yes. | 18:24 |
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| * lardman regrets not error checking his mmap call | 18:25 | |
| lcuk | derf, my original note said out of scope | 18:26 |
| lcuk | not necessarily null :P | 18:26 |
| derf | Sure... I'm just talking about the code you wrote. | 18:27 |
| lcuk | yer it wouldnt have worked | 18:28 |
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| lardman | let's see what perror has to say about it | 18:30 |
| macoute | do i have any means too make a videocall to a pc on n8x0? | 18:30 |
| derf | If by "PC" you mean "Windows box", then yes. | 18:30 |
| macoute | derf: and what do you mean by windows box? :) does that include linux/mac os too? | 18:31 |
| derf | macoute: No. | 18:31 |
| macoute | derf: why is that? | 18:31 |
| lcuk | lardman, you said earlier that you take backups - isnt svn meant to be a method for managing your own backups as well | 18:32 |
| derf | Because you have to download and install Nokia's special client application. | 18:32 |
| derf | Which, AFAIK, is only available for Windows. | 18:32 |
| qwerty12 | Nokia have one? | 18:32 |
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| macoute | ok. i heard something about building the linuc-version of skype from sources would do the trick? | 18:33 |
| lcuk | is skype os? | 18:33 |
| macoute | linux ? | 18:33 |
| lcuk | open source | 18:34 |
| macoute | s/linuc/linux | 18:34 |
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| lardman | lcuk: probably, I just don't know how to use it well enough | 18:34 |
| macoute | lcuk: afaik no, btw | 18:34 |
| macoute | thats maybe wwhy i couldnt find anything frim google ;) | 18:34 |
| derf | Oh, it's gone now anyway. | 18:34 |
| lcuk | lardman :) sounds like how im gonna be working then | 18:35 |
| macoute | damn typos | 18:35 |
| derf | http://web.archive.org/web/20070819023102/http://videovoip.tableteer.nokia.com/ | 18:35 |
| derf | I never used it, so I had no idea. | 18:35 |
| lardman | Error attempting to mmap: : No such device ah-ha | 18:35 |
| derf | lardman: "Oops". | 18:35 |
| qwerty12 | macoute, dunno if you need microphone but aMSN does webcam iirc | 18:35 |
| lardman | yeah, might make things a bit difficult :) | 18:35 |
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| lardman | not sure why though | 18:37 |
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| lardman | hmm, all caused by a missing symbol in the dsp task | 18:42 |
| lardman | curious as the dsp task descriptor was checked | 18:43 |
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| RST38h | moo, all | 18:58 |
| qwerty12 | ello | 18:58 |
| RST38h | lardman: so, any progress? =) | 18:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | moof | 18:58 |
| RST38h | qwerty: ehlo (c)sendmail | 18:58 |
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| lardman | RST38h: what with? SBC? | 18:59 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, GPLed? :P | 18:59 |
| qwerty12 | (Or maybe not...) | 18:59 |
| lardman | RST38h: in which case yes, just trying to work out how to get a DSP thread to sleep for some timeout | 18:59 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: bsd license afaik, but we are talking direct quote here! | 19:01 |
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| lardman | hmm, 33,000,000 system ticks at 330MHz should equal 100000 us? | 19:01 |
| qwerty12 | Hehe, they try anything on me, I'll get out the kitchen knife :P | 19:02 |
| RST38h | lardman: do you want it to sleep or is busy loop ok on dsp side | 19:02 |
| lardman | RST38h: sleep would be better really, busy loops are bad ;) | 19:02 |
| RST38h | ? | 19:02 |
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| lardman | In fact I'm doing shorter sleeps and counting how many times I wake | 19:04 |
| lardman | so I can time out | 19:04 |
| RST38h | can you use ogg decoder as an example | 19:04 |
| RST38h | ? | 19:04 |
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| lardman | as an example of what? | 19:05 |
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| RST38h | as an example of making dsp sleep of course!:) | 19:05 |
| lardman | dunno, I've not looked at the timing code in that | 19:05 |
| lardman | TSK_sleep(system ticks) looks like the answer anyway | 19:07 |
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| RST38h | aha | 19:07 |
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| RST38h | tsk tsk tsk sleep | 19:15 |
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| kkrusty | a general question; which editors do you use to develop for maemo? | 19:21 |
| qwerty12 | Is there an easy way to update the md5sums and Installed Size of a deb package instead of me running md5sum on each file and removing the location where the deb was unpacked and me guessing the installed side? :/ | 19:21 |
| qwerty12 | s/side/size/ | 19:22 |
| infobot | qwerty12 meant: Is there an easy way to update the md5sums and Installed Size of a deb package instead of me running md5sum on each file and removing the location where the deb was unpacked and me guessing the installed size? :/ | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | kkrusty, how about vim? | 19:22 |
| RST38h | kkrusty: pico! | 19:23 |
| RST38h | or nano | 19:23 |
| kkrusty | GeneralAntilles: I should confess that I've been a VS zombie. I've gotten into the habit of having a debugger embedded into the IDE | 19:23 |
| derf | kkrusty: You'll quickly get out of that habit. | 19:24 |
| derf | Since there isn't a single one worth a damn. | 19:24 |
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| kkrusty | nano + gdb it is then. About vim I find it hard to remember the keys | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Print out a cheat sheet. | 19:25 |
| derf | vim takes about 5 years to really get used to. | 19:25 |
| GreyFoxx | Does nano do syntax highlighting ? | 19:26 |
| RST38h | kkrusty: for a quick and dirty vs replacement try genie | 19:26 |
| GreyFoxx | ViM is my editor of choice, and one of the things I like is the integration with ctags and the syntax highlighting | 19:26 |
| GreyFoxx | and the fact that pretty much any *nix machine already has vi on it:) | 19:26 |
| derf | Don't get me wrong, I love vim. | 19:27 |
| derf | I wouldn't use anything else, personally. | 19:27 |
| kkrusty | so do you mostly use gdb without a frontend? | 19:27 |
| derf | But it does have a fairly steep learning curve. | 19:27 |
| GreyFoxx | derf I agree, but I switched to only vi 11 years ago and it was hard for a week | 19:27 |
| GreyFoxx | but after that it became habit | 19:28 |
| derf | Sure, you can be _functional_ in a week. | 19:28 |
| GreyFoxx | now I'm messed up using notepad so I have to install vim for windows :) | 19:28 |
| RST38h | vi sucks | 19:29 |
| derf | But I've been using vi for 14 years now, and I'm still finding out new things about it. | 19:29 |
| GreyFoxx | def: true enough, Im always learning new things | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, get out of here with that pico/nano nonsense. :P | 19:30 |
| * RST38h has been using pico for 10 years now | 19:31 | |
| RST38h | it is better than vi - it has got Arrows! | 19:31 |
| derf | Hahaha. | 19:31 |
| yigal | RST38h: do you program in pico? :) | 19:32 |
| GreyFoxx | The first time I had to fix a broken system, with no net connection to install another editor and literally 3 floors down in a concrete bunker was the same day I started learning Vi :) | 19:32 |
| RST38h | weird how we have not got a single emacs fanboy here | 19:32 |
| RST38h | yigal: yes. | 19:32 |
| derf | Emacs is even harder to learn than vi. | 19:33 |
| pupnik810 | emacs is crazy | 19:33 |
| * RST38h uses vi when there is no other chice though | 19:33 | |
| yigal | emacs is fine but it's too complicated | 19:33 |
| yigal | for me | 19:33 |
| GreyFoxx | emacs is an OS, not a editor, heh | 19:34 |
| yigal | emacs is a way of life but then again some say this about vim and they could be right | 19:34 |
| RST38h | I am not gonna believe any editor based on ai programming language - you never know what it is doing with your code | 19:34 |
| RST38h | May be just counting braces, but may be attempting to breed too... | 19:35 |
| yigal | it has a speach impediment it has a lisp | 19:35 |
| lcuk | kkrusty, i use komodo edit in windows - ive got it configured to look like vs, and it feels like it as well. no debugging but thats not important for me | 19:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, that's fun, HP took down the drivers for my printer. :\ | 19:38 |
| qwerty12 | ouch | 19:38 |
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| RST38h | Ga: that is their polite way of telling you to buy a new printer | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, thanks. : | 19:39 |
| RST38h | If not you, who is gonna improve their q3 results? | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | My mouse is broken again, too. | 19:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fun day | 19:40 |
| * RST38h is sitting in a train Moscow->Vilnius btw | 19:40 | |
| RST38h | So this connection is gonna expire any moment =) | 19:41 |
| GreyFoxx | Some sort of | 19:41 |
| GreyFoxx | GPRS or bluetooth to cellphone ? | 19:41 |
| RST38h | gprs on a phone | 19:42 |
| GreyFoxx | ahhh | 19:42 |
| RST38h | it is e70 - easier to type on than n810 | 19:42 |
| GreyFoxx | heh | 19:42 |
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| kkrusty | lcuk: Well the rest dont have debugging either. Also how do you compile if you're on linux? | 19:43 |
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| kkrusty | *not on | 19:43 |
| RST38h | 159km, still ticking... | 19:43 |
| lcuk | what operating system does my n810 run? | 19:43 |
| GreyFoxx | heh | 19:43 |
| RST38h | lcuk: amigaos? | 19:43 |
| lcuk | heh, i wish | 19:43 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: so you send it there and compile it? | 19:44 |
| lcuk | nai mean natively before someone fishes out the amiga emulator | 19:44 |
| pupnik810 | hehe | 19:44 |
| lcuk | kkrusty, other way round, dev files are maintained directly on the device | 19:44 |
| pupnik810 | still needs a frontend | 19:44 |
| RST38h | kkrusty: Have you read maemo sdk documentation? | 19:44 |
| lcuk | when im out of the office so to speak i use khertans pygtkeditor :) | 19:44 |
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| lcuk | but with ssh i can edit on any machine and thankfully komodo is multi platform so im happy | 19:45 |
| kkrusty | RST38h: I think I have. | 19:45 |
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| kkrusty | RST38h: not completely but what I know is that you can either develop with scratchbox or on the device | 19:46 |
| RST38h | kkrusty: then you must know what debugging options are available? | 19:46 |
| RST38h | you can develop in sb AND DEBUG on the device | 19:46 |
| kkrusty | RST38h: Yes I know that. I've been trying to have debugging work on Eclipse+SBox but that doesnt seem to work. | 19:47 |
| * lcuk doesnt like cross compiling - i would prefer an arm desktop | 19:47 | |
| RST38h | you can develop in sb and debug on an emulator but qemu sucks moose balls in terms of compatibility | 19:47 |
| RST38h | kkrusty: ditch eclipse | 19:47 |
| kkrusty | RST38h: so you need an emulator/device for debugging? | 19:48 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk, sbrsh sounds like your sort of thing but you need linux and a shitload of time and patience :/ | 19:48 |
| kkrusty | RST38h: thats exactly what I've just decided. | 19:48 |
| RST38h | kkrusty: no there is a third option but it is also sucky | 19:48 |
| lcuk | qwerty12, bleugh yer, its just another layer of complexity to an already complex system | 19:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, get yourself a beagleboard when they come out. | 19:49 |
| lcuk | kkrusty, trust your judgement, put plenty of debug messages in and deal with one problem at a time | 19:49 |
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| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i looked at linuxtag, they are quite spiffy | 19:49 |
| RST38h | compile for maemo-x86 and debug | 19:50 |
| derf | Hey, just be happy you aren't debugging on VxWorks. | 19:50 |
| RST38h | anyways, pico+make+scp do it for me and I am used to debugging with printfs | 19:50 |
| derf | Back when I had to use it, it didn't even have memory protection. | 19:50 |
| lcuk | derf, since i started on this device i assumed there were no actual runtime debugging methods available | 19:51 |
| kkrusty | RST38h: maemo-X86 sucks too? | 19:51 |
| derf | One invalid pointer write and you'd have to reboot the whole board. | 19:51 |
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| lcuk | must be a bitch for the mars rover developers | 19:51 |
| derf | And since nothing would actually crash when the original error occurred, it would take 8 hours to debug 20 lines of code. | 19:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | keesj, you won a Beagle? | 19:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | So did flo_lap and Kate Alhola. . . . | 19:56 |
| pupnik810 | bbl | 19:58 |
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| keesj | GeneralAntilles: yes | 20:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hate you. :P | 20:00 |
| * keesj did get it yesterday | 20:00 | |
| keesj | I am happy soldering and building all from source " all so happy " | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | You gonna get Maemo going on it? | 20:02 |
| Psykosis | Woot - got Milkytracker compiled and running on OS2008. :) | 20:02 |
| Psykosis | Now need to figure out how the heck to make a deb file. lol | 20:03 |
| keesj | I don't think so , there is already a OE based system for it. | 20:03 |
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| keesj | I want to be more bussy with lower level things (like jtag) and hardware | 20:03 |
| keesj | So I guess I am going with the flow and see | 20:04 |
| keesj | + there is no touch screen so hildon is not really what I want | 20:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good point | 20:05 |
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| keesj | I will see if it make sence to use mamona on it. | 20:05 |
| keesj | lardman was also requested at #beagle for his dsp twists | 20:06 |
| lardman | keesj: What's that keesj? | 20:06 |
| lardman | I should lurk on beagle? | 20:06 |
| lardman | that I can do | 20:07 |
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| keesj | please do | 20:07 |
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| lardman | right, the buffer problems are sorted, now I just have to work out whether my loops & sleeps are on the same order of magnitude on the DSP & ARM | 20:10 |
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| lcuk | keesj, does the beagle graphics card support yuv, is it in need of some graphical bandaging or is it nice and quick | 20:21 |
| lcuk | ;) | 20:21 |
| Psykosis | Is there a good tutorial on how to make a deb package somewhere? The page on maemo.org is giving me a 403... | 20:21 |
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| yigal | Psykosis: this is the original it goes into depth http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ | 20:22 |
| lcuk | Psykosis, khertan has a maemo program called pypackager | 20:22 |
| lcuk | http://khertan.net/pypackager/ | 20:22 |
| lcuk | it includes some good stuff and a link to what yigal just mentioned | 20:23 |
| Psykosis | Excellent - Thank you. :) | 20:23 |
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| keesj | lcuk: I don't know | 20:26 |
| * flo_lap got it two days ago... and built an image with OE but no time to test it yet | 20:27 | |
| Jaffa | Psykosis: you might also find http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/ useful | 20:31 |
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| keesj | GeneralAntilles: what would you do with a BeagleBoard? | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nothing particularly productive | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most just play | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/Most/Mostly/ | 20:35 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Mostly just play | 20:35 |
| keesj | like maemo :p | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeppers | 20:36 |
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| lcuk | keesj, could it be used as a development environment for maemo: ie desktop system with keyboard display and native compilation without scratchbox of binaries for use in maemo? | 20:37 |
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| keesj | lcuk: do you develop under sbox / arm ? | 20:39 |
| lcuk | no, i compile natively on 810 | 20:39 |
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| keesj | lcuk: I don't think it would make sence no. you might aswell develop on the n810 in that case. even under sbox what happens is cross compilation | 20:42 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: presumably the larger display and keyboard would be the interesting things | 20:44 |
| forge | :) | 20:44 |
| forge | Maybe he has full screen kb in his 810 ? | 20:44 |
| lcuk | keesj, im only thinking speed and i find the idea of an entirely virtual development process mind boggling. its just extra layers. the omap3 is much faster than my 810 and so would give a productivity boost | 20:44 |
| forge | usb or some other, and then he's using some whacky usb display port :o | 20:44 |
| lcuk | forge, no i use ssh to actually work on the files on windows (or any os handy) and when on the road use pygtkeditor on the device | 20:45 |
| forge | :) | 20:45 |
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| lcuk | but now i have started to look at c++ compilation time is rising towards my frustration threshhold and im just thinking of a way out | 20:45 |
| lcuk | and a £100 desktop replacement would be feasible | 20:46 |
| lcuk | especially if the same binary could be built and tested on either device | 20:47 |
| Jaffa | Presumably, if nothing else, you could use the armel Maemo SDK rootstrap in a chroot on whatever OS runs on the Beagle board | 20:47 |
| Jaffa | Actually, that'd be very cool. | 20:47 |
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| lcuk | i might have to just bite the bullet and get a scratchbox thing setup, but it makes my head spin | 20:48 |
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| keesj | lcuk: as long as you don't write asm I think you should just develop under x86 with all the very nice profiling tools (valgrind) | 20:49 |
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| keesj | and cross-compile , specialy if you don't have to many weird depenencies | 20:50 |
| lcuk | i write visual things which need the touchscreen | 20:50 |
| RST38h | I am back! | 20:50 |
| lcuk | i cant test and debug on x86 | 20:50 |
| RST38h | keesj: x86 is not the same as armel | 20:50 |
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| RST38h | cant debug lots of stuff there | 20:51 |
| keesj | and profiling is not the same a guessing where performance problems are laying | 20:51 |
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| keesj | I you use hildon I guess that you need to use the sbox. | 20:53 |
| lardman | hmm TSK_sleep() doesn't appear to return, ever | 20:53 |
| keesj | RST38h: what kind of bugs are you talking about that don't happen on x86 and do on arm? | 20:54 |
| lcuk | lardman, thats because its doing what you asked it to - maybe its waiting for another call in a seperate thread/process to wake it up | 20:54 |
| lardman | lcuk: It should just sleep for x number of clock ticks | 20:56 |
| lcuk | http://objectmix.com/dsp/301177-tsk_sleep-called-swi-routine-never-returns.html | 20:56 |
| lcuk | TSK_sleep cannot be called from a SWI or HWI... | 20:56 |
| keesj | but I must say that oprofile also looks very good | 20:58 |
| lardman | lcuk: This is not a sofware interrupt handler | 20:58 |
| lardman | hmm, this might be the show stopper though "TSK_sleep cannot be called from the program’s main() function." | 21:02 |
| lardman | Where can it be called from then I wonder? | 21:03 |
| lcuk | another thread? | 21:04 |
| lcuk | anyway, rebooting for andlinux, back soon | 21:04 |
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| lardman | I'm in another thread already, but calling it from the main() of that thread | 21:04 |
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| lardman | I wonder if it's related to the clock() fn not working | 21:07 |
| RST38h | keesj: x86 has different performnce profile, memory latency, it misses omap hw completely | 21:08 |
| lardman | hmm, /* no CLK objs */ comment in avs_kernelcfg.conf doens't sound too promising | 21:08 |
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| RST38h | clock() (posix) is dependent on the system services | 21:10 |
| lcuk | but if it exists and compiles it shouldnt return duff results surely? | 21:11 |
| lardman | no idea | 21:11 |
| lardman | I'll just try a proper busy loop | 21:12 |
| lardman | food first though | 21:12 |
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| lcuk | lardman, is there a reason why you cannot use CLK_gethtime() ?? http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru404n/spru404n.pdf page 70 describes it and talks specifically about 2420 | 21:18 |
| lcuk | *for when you get back | 21:18 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, are you watching now or later | 21:23 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: later. At in-laws. Will get off, erm, some sources I can't disclose - but are fully legal. Let's say my PVR. | 21:23 |
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| lcuk | bbc iplayer is even better - direct over flash about 10minutes after end of program | 21:23 |
| lcuk | no waiting for download and quality is surprisingly high | 21:24 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: this is like iPlayer, but from BBC R&D :) | 21:24 |
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| lcuk | nice | 21:24 |
| lardman|cooking | lcuk: I'm guessing that clock() hides a call to one of those CLK_ fns | 21:24 |
| lcuk | im still keeping my eyes open for a way to get it playing well on my 810 | 21:25 |
| lardman|cooking | lcuk: I'll try it out after supper though | 21:25 |
| lcuk | lardman, it may well do, enjoy your mael | 21:25 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: the iPhone-style hacks might present something which play back well on the N810. Not tried it, tho | 21:25 |
| lcuk | meal | 21:25 |
| lcuk | jaffa, maybe - id hope to simply watch the standard flash stream but thats a bit of a pipedream | 21:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | HAVA works nicely. | 21:26 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: is it all Windows PC based, or is it an online service? | 21:26 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa, The iphone one only works in mplayer in black & white >.< according to a post. | 21:27 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: ah, fair enuf. | 21:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Setup has to be done on a Windows machine (or vm) | 21:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | but it has a client just for the tablets. | 21:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://myhava.com/ | 21:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's basically a slingbox | 21:27 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N800, black and white... that rings bells for me and makes me think the yuv is just being decoded incorrectly or intentionally ignoring the chroma components | 21:27 |
| Jaffa | Oh, FFS. My mother-in-law's put it on in the dining room "to see what happened". After she talked all through last weeks and so I'm waiting until I can watch it in peace. And then she starts talking about a) who's in it, and b) that she'll turn it off when I go in. I'm not going anywhere *near* that TV :) | 21:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 21:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | i'm pissed too about iplayer :(, i'd like to watch eastenders w/out resorting to transmission | 21:29 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: so you need your Windows PC to be on? | 21:29 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N800, someone your age should not be watching eastfluffingenders (unless you want to see your mates in it) | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just for the first setup out of the box | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's completely independent after that | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I used vmware. ;) | 21:29 |
| Jaffa | So where's the media come from? | 21:30 |
| * Jaffa should read more | 21:30 | |
| GeneralAntilles | The cablebox | 21:30 |
| lcuk | a settop box | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | It sits inline between the stb and tv | 21:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, can't stop me now :p. been watching for *years* | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | IR blaster to control the stb | 21:30 |
| Jaffa | Oh, right. I see. Hadn't realised/remembered it was h/w based. | 21:31 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: I bet you watch Neighbours, too. | 21:31 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, TV apparently off. Will risk eating food. | 21:31 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N800, all the good work you have done and such a promising future completely overshadowed by your fascination with dot cotton :P | 21:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Nah, neighbours never appealed to me. | 21:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, i keep a picture under my pillow ^-^ ;p | 21:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | *:P | 21:32 |
| lcuk | *BLEUGH* | 21:32 |
| * GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you with a stick again. | 21:33 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | Now that Jim's gone, I may get a chance... :P | 21:33 |
| keesj | I have a deambox dm600 is any chance on streaming to the n810? | 21:35 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | keesj, how is it? i've always wanted a dbox2. | 21:36 |
| keesj | I must say it works better then I expected, I did spend one day flashing the thing. and getting it to work but now it works like a charm | 21:37 |
| keesj | the nice thing is that I don't need a remote control any more as I can use the web interface. | 21:38 |
| lcuk | does anybody know of a small garage project which is setup with proper debian folders (/src /debian etc) which i could checkout and examine and use as a template for mine | 21:38 |
| lcuk | all i can find are polar opposites: documentation on the layout or massive sprawling packages or incomplete/broken stuff | 21:39 |
| keesj | I need to setup vlc on my machine | 21:40 |
| keesj | (food time) | 21:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, There's a few, adv-backlight and if you are feeling like a big challenge, mplayer. | 21:40 |
| keesj | lcuk: I think my first project is still "nice" https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=62 | 21:41 |
| lcuk | well.... adv-backlight doesnt put into a /src folder and so im not sure what would happen | 21:41 |
| lcuk | thanks keesj ill have a look | 21:41 |
| keesj | but we all need to use mud :p | 21:42 |
| lcuk | also, adv-backlight (rm_you read this..) has a tiny problem with its installation into sudoers - it just appends to the end, shouldnt it use visudo or whatever to handle locking | 21:42 |
| keesj | so put the source in svn and aks mudders to package | 21:42 |
| lcuk | we do, but if i get my project into proper debian stance i will be better in the longrun | 21:42 |
| keesj | I am still a debian rookie so perhaps not such a good example after all | 21:43 |
| lcuk | keesj, im looking around everywhere | 21:43 |
| lcuk | you have something up and have used svn, you arent that much of a rookie | 21:44 |
| keesj | lcuk: inz helped me the first day's | 21:44 |
| keesj | this is the "structure" i made https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/home-applets/cosy-bookmarks/?root=cosy-home | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | keesj, im getting a great deal of help already and the more projects i get to look at the better i will be to understand how it all fits together | 21:46 |
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| lcuk | things still elude me, like how do i sort out binary versioning - im used to going to project properties and setting auto increment | 21:47 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, if you don't want to append to sudoers, you can make a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ (we'll call it liqbase.sudoers) and put your sudo lines in there and call update-sudoers from postinst | 21:48 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N800, nice! thank you - i knew there was a proper way to do it. this little nugget is being stored away | 21:50 |
| lardman|cooking | hmm, #define TSK_sleep(nticks) (SEM_pend(&TSK_timerSem, nticks)) | 21:51 |
| lardman|cooking | I'm not sure of the behaviour when a semaphore doesn't exist | 21:51 |
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| * lcuk puts his hand up | 21:52 | |
| lcuk | lardman - i bet it will cause an infinite loop :D | 21:52 |
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| lardman|cooking | probably just sits there as it never increments | 21:52 |
| lardman|cooking | :) | 21:52 |
| lardman|cooking | #define TSK_time() KNL_curtime | 21:53 |
| lardman|cooking | looks more promising, at least for timing things | 21:53 |
| lcuk | if the granuality isnt very high you could also do what ive done in the past... ive used household scales to accurately weigh 2pence pieces | 21:53 |
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| [A2K] | hi, it's me again. | 21:54 |
| [A2K] | with more stupid questions :) | 21:54 |
| lcuk | hi [a2k], we are here, and we have more stupid answers for you :) | 21:54 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 21:54 |
| * jott prepares his rubber chicken | 21:55 | |
| [A2K] | i tried to use default browser on n810. it is good and very comfortable to use, but is there some way to add firefox plugins to it? adblock, noscript, maybe vimperator? | 21:55 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ones that use xul can't be used on the n810 :( | 21:56 |
| jott | adblock exists though. | 21:56 |
| lcuk | using a backdoor hack | 21:56 |
| jott | i had it on chinook but it was quite slow. | 21:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | jott, iirc, that's managed with separate app | 21:57 |
| lcuk | it tags itself to the page dom doesnt it | 21:57 |
| [A2K] | :( | 21:57 |
| Kegetys | some adblock i tried made the whole browser unbearably slow on all pages | 21:57 |
| [A2K] | ok, so, maybe there is some another good browser? | 21:58 |
| jott | http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/ well long time no new posts here | 21:58 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | CSS + maybe hosts file works a lot better on the n8*0 than adblock | 21:58 |
| bohawjes | hey, what is the best combo to use pc desktop remotely with nokia tablet? | 21:59 |
| lcuk | depending on the router/intermediate hardware something like proximatron would be good | 21:59 |
| jott | opera 9.5 would be spiffy ;) | 21:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | jott, check the svn, they have some plug-ins they haven't released :) | 21:59 |
| bohawjes | vnc viewer and some vnc server? | 21:59 |
| jott | qwerty12_N800: not released => slow and broken as adblock?! ;) | 21:59 |
| lardman|cooking | lcuk: Looks like the semaphore exists, but I assume nothing posts to it so it's never incremented | 22:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | jott, dunno, haven't tried them ;) | 22:00 |
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| jott | bohawjes: if you connect to a windows host i would prefer rdp, other os like linux/osx vnc is the way to go | 22:00 |
| [A2K] | i don't think that opera 9.5 will be compiled for maemo, they are closedsourse. | 22:00 |
| bohawjes | ok, jott. i will try rdp. thanks | 22:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800 ++ CSS and hosts file is the way to do ad-blocking on the tablets. | 22:01 |
| [A2K] | next question. it looks like n810 does not use HSDPA (only UMTS) when connecting using mobile phone (nokia e51). i get only 400-800 kbits per second.. | 22:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's DUN limiting. | 22:01 |
| [A2K] | O_o is there some way to remove it? | 22:02 |
| RST38h | what is wrong with adblock? | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, "remove it"?. . . . | 22:02 |
| [A2K] | remove this limit | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's slow as all get out. | 22:02 |
| Jaffa | [A2K]: Bluetooth PAN, rather than DUN. | 22:02 |
| [A2K] | Jaffa: nokia phones does not support PAN :( | 22:02 |
| Jaffa | Really?! | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | [A2K], it's a limit of the protocol. You can't "remove it". | 22:02 |
| lcuk | then get one that does | 22:02 |
| [A2K] | Jaffa: i don't see PAN profile in my e51 | 22:03 |
| RST38h | motorola z10 should do pan | 22:03 |
| qwerty12_N800 | meh, never liked motos :/ | 22:03 |
| [A2K] | i just bought e51 today | 22:04 |
| qwerty12_N800 | pocket pc phones do pan | 22:04 |
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| lcuk | a2k, i thought features and profiles were at the behest of the phone provider, if you have a cheap payg phone the feature you request may simply be disabled | 22:04 |
| [A2K] | and i sold my old wm-based glofiish x800 =\ | 22:04 |
| Jaffa | Sony Ericsson obviously best for non-Smartphones | 22:04 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: not so much in the UK/Europe, but definitel in the US | 22:04 |
| [A2K] | lcuk: provider can't diasble bluetooth PAN in phone... | 22:04 |
| RST38h | glofish <-- deserves death | 22:04 |
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| [A2K] | RST38h: yes, they do | 22:05 |
| lcuk | my o2 phone has 3g super quick modem inside but i cant get at it from outside | 22:05 |
| lcuk | i always thought it was simply cos its a cheapy £40 layg | 22:05 |
| lcuk | payg | 22:05 |
| lcuk | :D layg phones are painted red | 22:06 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: no, O2 don't have an HSPDA network | 22:06 |
| lcuk | its got 3g though? | 22:06 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yes, they do have umts iirc | 22:06 |
| [A2K] | can n810 connect to inetret by ad-hoc network? i think there is some software to make symbian phone wifi access point.. | 22:07 |
| Jaffa | Yes. OK, admittedly your *account* may not have 3G access enabled, but the phone itself won't have the feature disabled. | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | [A2K], get ready for 2-hour battery life. | 22:07 |
| Jaffa | [A2K]: yes, ad-hoc wlan is supported | 22:07 |
| * RST38h alway thought umts was 3g voice and hsdpa was 3g data | 22:07 | |
| [A2K] | great | 22:07 |
| RST38h | wrong? | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | HSDPA is 3.5G | 22:07 |
| RST38h | oh | 22:07 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: what GA said. | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | UMTS is 3G | 22:07 |
| RST38h | ok | 22:08 |
| [A2K] | afaik UMTS can transfer data on EDGE speed | 22:08 |
| RST38h | is there some special name for 3g voice and data protocols? | 22:08 |
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| [A2K] | RST38h: UMTS :) | 22:08 |
| qwerty12_N800 | edge is slower then umts :/ | 22:08 |
| RST38h | if umts is data then how is voice called? | 22:08 |
| Jaffa | EDGE is 2.75G, GPRS is 2.5G | 22:08 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: UMTS | 22:09 |
| RST38h | amps is 2g then?:) | 22:09 |
| GNUton | :) | 22:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_phone_standards | 22:09 |
| [A2K] | HSCSD is 2G | 22:10 |
| RST38h | ga: you are giving this url to somebody with 416x352 screen and a gprs uplink (no edge) | 22:10 |
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| RST38h | repent!:) | 22:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's, like, 1 image. | 22:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, should make for good reading then :p | 22:11 |
| [A2K] | bluetooth PAN support is not enabled in nokia n810 by default. it is developed non-officialy. is it really good? | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It works fine | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's just not well supported in the GUI. | 22:12 |
| * RST38h is rereading amber spyglass as we speak | 22:12 | |
| [A2K] | btw, can i install zsh or just normal bash? | 22:12 |
| RST38h | was found on E: drive by chance | 22:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | cept in Diablo where you may as well use ad-hoc for now | 22:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | (bt-pan) | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | [A2K], nitapps.com for bash. | 22:13 |
| [A2K] | added to bookmarks, thx. | 22:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, love that series. | 22:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Any good? Been watching too much films, a book would be nice. :) | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, fantastic | 22:15 |
| RST38h | yes, theyare very good | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | the series is easily on my top-ten list. ;) | 22:15 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Thanks, will check it out. | 22:15 |
| RST38h | films are just hollow | 22:15 |
| lcuk | well you could fill in the hole in the middle of the dvd | 22:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Films are a visual medium. | 22:16 |
| lcuk | but i doubt thats the kind of hollow you mean | 22:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2001 is a good example of something that really uses the medium. | 22:16 |
| lcuk | and it uses the long | 22:16 |
| RST38h | I do not even watch dvds... | 22:16 |
| * [A2K] looks at list of console stuff and gets shocked | 22:16 | |
| * GeneralAntilles now has to watch the 2001 docking scene again. <_< | 22:17 | |
| lcuk | (open the pod bay doors HAL) - . (========== | 22:18 |
| [A2K] | one more question. is there some alternative to package manager? apt-get/apt-cache works fine and very fast, but default package manager i too slow | 22:18 |
| lcuk | . (========== -(im sorry gen, i can't do that) | 22:18 |
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| [A2K] | omg | 22:21 |
| [A2K] | it just deleted all repos | 22:21 |
| [A2K] | O.o | 22:21 |
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| [A2K] | whre does it store sources.list? | 22:26 |
| [A2K] | /etc/apt/sources.list is just blank | 22:26 |
| [A2K] | but it has repos | 22:26 |
| Jaffa | Debian & Ubuntu both now use /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ now. | 22:26 |
| [A2K] | oh.. | 22:26 |
| Jaffa | Maemo the same. | 22:26 |
| * [A2K] is old-school user :P | 22:26 | |
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| lcuk | bleugh, im gonna go play fro a bit | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | The problem with movies is that most filmmakers try to treat them like novels on film. | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | but film is a visual medium, so that doesn't really work. | 22:29 |
| [A2K] | is there some way to disable light-off? | 22:31 |
| [A2K] | i hate whan i read book and it just switches off lights | 22:31 |
| [A2K] | no, i don't read too slow | 22:32 |
| [A2K] | just learning few programming languages and reading books with lot of source codes. | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Set the screen timeout insanely long? | 22:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/moredimmingoptions/ | 22:33 |
| [A2K] | it can be set up to 2 mines (allready done) | 22:33 |
| [A2K] | minutes* | 22:33 |
| [A2K] | and i need good e-mail client. that default has much problems with russian encoding. | 22:34 |
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| [A2K] | (do not offer gmail please) | 22:35 |
| bohawjes | does anyone here have a nokia tablet with "loose" touchscreen surface? | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, as in, it wiggles around? | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | or it's slightly spongey? | 22:35 |
| bohawjes | i mean that you can feel it moving when tapping etc. and it makes it almost impossible to use with fingers | 22:36 |
| bohawjes | spongey is good word | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have 1 N800 like that | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | both of my 770s are like that | 22:36 |
| [A2K] | ok, i think i got it. "dude, this is linux, if you want something - do it yourself" :) | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, I find the spongey N800 more accurate with fingers. | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | The wiki is soooooo slooooooow | 22:37 |
| bohawjes | i have this 770, it's not usable with fingers at all | 22:37 |
| bohawjes | i have to use nails if i don't have stylus available | 22:37 |
| JamieBennett | Spongy is all to do with the type of touch screen, its pressure sensitive | 22:37 |
| Grackle_ | The 770 has quite a bit of squish, my N800 has barely noticable squish. | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | JamieBennett, not quite. | 22:38 |
| Grackle_ | Actually, I cannot detect any squish. | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | One of my N800s has no squish | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | one has lots of squish | 22:38 |
| Grackle_ | Hmm. | 22:38 |
| bohawjes | yes, i thought this is normal, but i once tried another tablet in local nokia store.. it worked hundred times better with fingers and the screen was much more "tight" | 22:38 |
| Grackle_ | Does it have a grainier screen, similar to the 770? | 22:38 |
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| Grackle_ | Or is the squishiness the only similarity? | 22:38 |
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| bohawjes | my screen is very spongey/loose in the bottom area of the screen. 1/3 from the top is working pretty nice with fingers and i don't notice any movement there | 22:39 |
| JamieBennett | GeneralAntilles: I was refering to the fact that 'normal' touchscreens (as in glass type screens) use conduction rather than pressure so the pressure ones have some play. I understand that some may be defective and move too much though. | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Grackle, no, the sponginess is the only similarity with the 770. | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Either way, Nokia really needs to tighten up everything about their touchscreens. | 22:40 |
| bohawjes | one thing which bothers me is, that the looseness of this screen makes it easy to scratch. | 22:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's what screen protectors are for. | 22:41 |
| bohawjes | yes, wish i had used those before :) | 22:41 |
| bohawjes | virtual keyboard area is becoming very unsensitive and hard to use now | 22:42 |
| Kegetys | hmm, is there some reason why the maemo browser doesn't support any kind of disk cache? | 22:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | It can be enabled in about:config afaik | 22:42 |
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| Kegetys | it doesn't seem to work even after that | 22:43 |
| Kegetys | about:cache says it only does memory cache | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Slow flash write speed and flash life issues, I believe. | 22:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Either way, yes, there's a good reason. | 22:43 |
| * sp3000 finds the memory cache settings in the options ui quite amusing | 22:44 | |
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| Kegetys | well I'd prefer to have the images etc. from sites I visit often to be cached on the disk rather than reloaded every time I close and open the browser again | 22:44 |
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| sp3000 | anyway if you worry about flash wear you can always point the cache onto disposable media | 22:46 |
| Kegetys | yeah I'd rather buy a new memory card every now and then than pay the bill to reload all the stuff over and over again | 22:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I updated the MUD wiki page to use the citation plugin, and fixed a URL. | 22:47 |
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| keesj | was the food good or did you only cook? | 22:54 |
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| sp3000 | Kegetys: yeah I don't see anything landing in the disk cache with it enabled, capacity is defaut 50M, parent_directory set to an existing /media/mmc1/browsercache | 23:00 |
| Kegetys | sp3000: yeah it's propably not compiled in at all | 23:01 |
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| sp3000 | it can be configured out, yeah | 23:10 |
| sp3000 | oh wel | 23:10 |
| sp3000 | l | 23:10 |
| [A2K] | i need a good build of wxmaxima with all dependencies. can someone help me? | 23:10 |
| bohawjes | does fanoush's mmc speedhack make nokia 770 more stable, or am i wrong? | 23:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, if you combine it with swap, it might. | 23:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | A large part of 770 instability is from memory constraints. | 23:12 |
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| bohawjes | i just though this, because i started to use that hack lately and my device has been much more stable after it | 23:14 |
| JamieBennett | GeneralAntilles: Also the slow processor plays a part | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | JamieBennett, true, but oom situations are front and foremost for stability issues. | 23:15 |
| lardman | dsp restarts also force reboot due to the fb being mapped | 23:16 |
| JamieBennett | GeneralAntilles: Agreed, most of todays software on the Linux side benefit more from mem increases than from CPU ones | 23:16 |
| lardman | while on the n8x0 they go un-noticed | 23:16 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: yeah, ta for fixing that up | 23:17 |
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| yigal | $199 n800 on ebay I'm a happy man, although I still have to wait about a week for it to arrive :) | 23:32 |
| JamieBennett | yigal: have fun! | 23:32 |
| yigal | JamieBennett: thank you! | 23:33 |
| lardman | aaargh, why don't my shared memory addresses match up!? | 23:33 |
| ShadowJK | What is mmc speedhack? :-) | 23:35 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Is python-launcher only activated if magic line is #!/usr/bin/env python? | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | ah, google found it | 23:38 |
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| lardman | right, any thoughts what's wrong with these bits of code?: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m1db6df83 | 23:41 |
| lardman | the ARM & DSP sides refer to the same shared memory buffer, but for some reason only value pointed to at the start of the buffer can be read on the DSP side | 23:42 |
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| lcuk | lardman input_length = (unsigned short *)((unsigned long)shmem+1); | 23:47 |
| lcuk | what are you attempting to do there | 23:47 |
| lardman | static char shmem[MBUF_LENGTH]; | 23:47 |
| lcuk | shmem holds the address of the start of the allocated memory block | 23:47 |
| lardman | is the shared memory region | 23:47 |
| lardman | yes | 23:47 |
| lcuk | shmem+1 is where where in memory | 23:48 |
| lardman | in SDRAM | 23:48 |
| lardman | it's shared by the MMU | 23:49 |
| lcuk | no, i mean where in memory, shmem starts at address 0x12341200 and continues for MBUF_LEN bytes. (0x12341200 + 1) is just indexing 1 byte into that array | 23:50 |
| lcuk | that looks wrong | 23:50 |
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| lardman | that is right, 2048 16bit bytes worth of memory are shared | 23:50 |
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| lardman | so I'm pointing that variable's address one 16bit byte into that array | 23:51 |
| lcuk | ahhh dont be sure | 23:51 |
| lcuk | i tried this with the blit routine in liqbase | 23:51 |
| lardman | oh, what's up then? | 23:52 |
| lcuk | but because i had a variable declared as char * no matter what casting i couldnt make it jump over 2 or 4 bytes | 23:52 |
| lcuk | all offsets were based on the original char | 23:52 |
| lardman | ah yes, but char is 16bit on the dsp | 23:52 |
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| lcuk | so whats the ugly unsigned long casting for? | 23:53 |
| lardman | I'm not sure quite how the DSP C compiler wants to guess, so I thought I'd be sure | 23:53 |
| lcuk | char *memstart=shmem; int16 *memstart16 = (int16 *)memstart; printf("item0=%i",memstart16[0]); printf("item1=%i",memstart16[1]); | 23:54 |
| lcuk | perhaps something like that - at least to check | 23:54 |
| lcuk | i ended up using similar in some functions to clarify i was doing as intended memory wise | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=199672&postcount=104 | 23:55 |
| lcuk | its always hairy around casts | 23:55 |
| lardman | char *memstart=shmem; sets the value of memstart to the address of shmem | 23:56 |
| lardman | int16 *memstart16 = (int16 *)memstart; then you cast it to a 16bit pointer | 23:57 |
| lcuk | yes, doing it all as atomic blocks clarified it in my mind | 23:59 |
| lcuk | that way i dont have to think about operator precidence | 23:59 |
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