IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-07-05

mgedmin4200 EUR + VAT???00:00
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mgedminwhat's "The Independent Developer Access All Areas Pass"?00:01
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mgedmindoes it go on top of the 4200 EUR price, or is this a 400-EUR alternative to it?00:01
pauliukasI have a Nokia 770 flashed with the latest version of OS 2006.00:01
pauliukasI'm trying to install osso xterm and I simply get a "intall failed" error00:02
mgedminpauliukas: check the app installer's log00:02
mgedminit's in the tools menu00:02
GeneralAntillesIs there a log in OS2006?00:02
pauliukasdpkg-preconfigure: not found00:02
GeneralAntillesGuess so00:03
mgedminwasn't it always there? I'm sure it was always there00:03
mgedminpauliukas: irrelevant warning, what's the next message?00:03
pauliukasNo such file for the .install file.00:03
pauliukasLemme try saving it first00:03
mgedmininteresting00:03
pauliukasuhhh00:05
pauliukasgreat. I get a completed download on opera, but it's not saved.00:05
pauliukasTried saving both to local folders and the card.00:05
mgedminran out of disk space?00:05
pauliukasnope00:05
pauliukasbrand new install00:05
pauliukasrestarting opera00:06
pauliukasI literally just reflashed it00:06
pauliukasbecause I was having the same error befor00:06
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pauliukasstill not there00:06
mgedmincan it save any other kinds of files?00:07
mgedminwhat's the URL of this .install?00:07
pauliukason maemo.org00:07
pauliukasdownload section00:07
pauliukasos2006 > system00:07
pauliukasosso x-term advanced00:07
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* mgedmin sighs thinking about the laziness of some people00:08
pauliukasnow I'm getting a squid error00:08
pauliukasgreat00:08
mgedminthe install file itself looks okay from here00:09
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pauliukastrying another package00:11
pauliukaslooks like it's working so far00:11
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zs_hi, i am trying to install some packages from http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/bora/free but can't, i got incompatible application package, i downloaded armel packages, what's wrong?00:33
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RST38hwhat OS version are you using on your device?00:34
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zs_200700:34
RST38hshould be ok...00:34
Edgesterok, I've rerun initfs_flasher after installing diablo, but now I can't boot from mmc which worked under chinook. Any advice?00:34
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RST38hAll right, the Pokemon bug...00:54
NaviWoo, pokemon00:54
NaviGB/GBC?00:54
RST38hGBA00:54
NaviIcic00:54
RST38hI have not got to porting GB/GBC emulator yet00:54
Navimmk00:55
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pupnikRST38h: i forgot if you ever answered my question about a high resolution timer on the nokias00:57
RST38hpupnik: I said that if it exists, usleep() and nanosleep() should make use of it00:57
acydlordany clue why bluetooth dun would work just fine for me in chinook and not at all in diablo?00:58
pupnikah ok i look at them00:58
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pupnikon the gp2x there's a register you can look at, iirc00:58
RST38hI am sure OMAP has a similar register00:58
RST38hThe only problem is, nobody is gonna tell us which one =(00:59
Jaffalcuk: sounds like "fun" :)01:00
pupnikacydlord: sorry no ideas01:00
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[A2K]hi. i'm n00b. please give me the link.01:00
acydlordtime to submit a bug report i guess01:00
RST38hpupnik: Found docs. found timers.01:01
ralann|mbpacydlord: i have used BT in diablo just fine01:01
[A2K]anyone? do you have a link for noobs?01:01
pupnik! :)01:01
lcukjaffa, it wasnt too bad - amsterdam i was stood around, paris i had to run between terminals, but at least i got outside and managed a cig01:02
[A2K]well, ok, then i have some questions.01:02
pupnik                  worked under chinook. Any advice?01:02
pupniksorry01:02
lcuk\o pup01:02
pupnikhey there sur01:03
[A2K]how can i install something from here http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/games/ ?01:03
RST38hOMAP591201:03
[A2K]i press click to install and just see text in browser01:03
lcuk[A2K], what nokia device have you got01:03
RST38hmust be omap3, not omap2, but I hope timers are the same01:03
[A2K]lcuk: n810 with diablo01:03
lcukare you going to the website with your nokia01:03
lcukor from your home computer01:03
Jaffalcuk: Schipole's a horrible airport, IMHO. Apparently the train from .nl to .de is really interesting - although 5 hours each way will mean lots of time for hacking on my laptop :) 'spose it's not much longer than a flight when you take into account check-ins etc.01:03
[A2K]lcuk: from nokia01:04
zs_i think there is a problem with application installer in os2007 hacker edition, i have tried to install some apps from repo, and it failed because of incompatible package, but when i used dpkg -i everything is ok01:04
RST38hpupnik: 4 private timers. 1 OS timer at 32768Hz. 8 general purpose timers.01:04
lcukjaffa :) sounds like the most relaxing part :) i was doodling the whole way back01:04
pupnikif you go on the ICE Jaffa be sure to reserve a seat at one of the facing-seats with a table and power outlet, and bring an outlet multiplier01:04
lcuk[A2K], not sure, the website might be broken01:05
pupnikgetting power on the ICE requires some planning01:05
RST38hpupnik: you can run any of gp timers off the system clock so it is hires01:05
[A2K]:(01:05
pupnikRST38h: interestingk01:05
RST38hpupnik: Check http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/omap591201:05
[A2K]is there some manual how to create packages for maemo?01:05
RST38hAnd http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap5912.html#technicaldocuments in general01:06
lcuk[A2K], on the maemo site there are a full set of developer documentation01:06
[A2K]ok...01:06
lcukpart of which is packaging...01:07
* lcuk should read it too01:07
lcukmind you, im trying to read up on svn atm01:07
Jaffapupnik: right, ta for that.01:07
[A2K]why did not enyone still compiled openoffice for maemo?01:07
hellwolfWhen I insert a 4G SDHC card into my N800, I can't start up the machine. But I can use the SDHC card after the machine starting up successfully. :(01:07
hellwolfI mean as a external SD card01:08
hellwolfWhen I use the card as internal SD card, there's no such problem01:08
RST38hpupnik: Looks like the chip has two on-chip memory areas (OCP T1 T2)01:08
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RST38hOne of them is the framebuffer another one is unlabeled01:08
RST38hI am pretty sure these are low-latency memories, so placing code into them should speed things up01:09
pupnikyou didn't see a tech pdf like that for 2420 then...01:09
RST38hnope01:09
[A2K]is maemo just good for noobs and i have to install gentoo for professional usage?01:09
Jaffa[A2K]: there is no Gentoo port to the N8x0. There are alternative OSes, such as Debian, Android, Poky, Mamona, but Maemo will be your best bet in almost all probablity.01:10
[A2K]Jaffa: there is how-to about gentoo for arm :)01:10
GeneralAntillesDebian really has the best armel branch01:11
[A2K]but it is not so sexy as gentoo01:12
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RST38hpupnik: Ironically, 5912 is their oldest high-perf chip01:12
RST38hit is pre-omap101:13
pupniki thought TI was going to give developers more info now with their new open-source drive01:13
kulveisn't 5912 and omap1510 based board? thus omap1..01:13
RST38hmaybe01:13
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RST38hit is even older than omap01:13
[A2K]hmm.. wifi just drops and can not reconnect for third time this hour.. is there some bug?01:13
RST38h101:13
Jaffa[A2K]: You might be able to get Gentoo running in a chroot then, bootstrapped by Maemo - but I'm not aware of anyone trying it. Compiling your OS on a 400MHz ARM with 128MB of RAM does not sound like a Fun Thing[TM]01:13
RST38hbut my guess is, one can use 5912 documentation for 2420, up to some degree01:13
pupnikyeah, so one could go peeking at various registers and see what they do?01:14
[A2K]Jaffa: i have allready done this, but not on nokia )01:14
RST38hpupnik: yep01:14
RST38hlooking at 3530 data now01:14
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pupnikit'd also help if i were a developer.  but this is definitely a help to me - ty RST38h01:16
RST38hFor 3530 only abstracts of the documents available01:16
acydlordralann|mbp, bt for files works just fine, but when i go to make a bt dun connection the n810 drops the bt at the last second01:16
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RST38h....and here we have PowerVR description!01:17
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RST38hshit, "For more information about register descriptions, contact your TI representative."01:18
ralann|mbpoh yeah, forgot about that, i just use it for files01:18
[A2K]how that .install files work? what program handles them?01:19
lcukdo i have to explicitely tell svn to checkin every single new file within a folder?01:19
lcukie if i build a few classes i have to teach it each one?01:19
RST38hlcuk: use Tortoise01:19
[A2K]got it..01:19
lcukon my 810?01:20
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RST38hlcuk: umgh01:20
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lcukremember RST38h, i do all development work directly on the device01:20
lcukwell, i use windows editor, but compilation etc01:20
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RST38hohfuckyessssss01:22
lcuk:P01:22
acydlordfrom personal experience it's usually mostly noobs who use gentoo, they just like to play the part of the elitest01:22
RST38hlook what I have found:01:22
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RST38hhttp://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/spruf98a01:23
pupnik<click>01:24
pupnikhah 37 MB01:24
jottRST38h: now if we only had this for the omap24xx :p01:25
RST38hjott: Again, I am pretty sure that between this one and 59xx, a lot of things will be similar in 24x001:25
pupnikahh TI *is* opening up01:25
RST38hMeanwhile in liberated Afghanistan: "Two Harriers launched a strike on a huge cache of 260 tons of [hashish], stuffed in sacks of grain and buried in trenches and underground bunkers in Kandahar province in southern Afghanistan.01:25
jottyeah some clues might be in there..01:25
RST38hnot clues but direct register descriptions01:26
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Jaffalcuk: You can wildcard `svn add' and it even has a -R option IIRC01:26
jottmh01:26
pupnikO_o01:26
lcukjaffa ahhh, so can just make sure all .c and .h files easily01:27
* lcuk is planning imdoneforthenight.sh01:27
lcukis it easy to see and handle conflicts?01:28
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rolfok__hi01:28
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, you will, of course, be demoing mediaserv alongside tablet-encode, right? :P01:34
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[A2K]бля, русские есть?01:39
[A2K]can i use two keyboard languages by switching them with some key combination?01:40
[A2K]i need english and russian01:40
[A2K]can't find how to switch them01:40
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pupnikthat sounds like a nice feature request [A2K]01:41
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[A2K]O_o you want to say that simple xkb map is not default in maemo!?01:42
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[A2K]setxkbmap -layout "us,ru"01:42
[A2K]hmm01:42
[A2K]i'll try it now )01:42
[A2K]oops..01:44
[A2K]now Fn does not work01:44
[A2K]lol01:44
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pupnikno afaict it goes through gnome/hildon01:45
pupnikit's not just sending X keyboard events01:45
pupnikafk01:45
JaffaGeneralAntilles: hopefully, yes :)01:45
[A2K]ehh.. is there irssi for maemo?01:45
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[A2K]or just some good irc client?01:47
GeneralAntillesXChat is in Extras01:47
GeneralAntillesirssi is around somewhere01:47
GeneralAntillesgoogle.01:47
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[A2K]what is R&D mode? i had to enable it while flashing..01:50
GeneralAntillesEr, why?01:50
[A2K]it did not want to give me root01:51
GeneralAntilles~easyroot01:51
infobot[easyroot] an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com01:51
[A2K]:) too late01:52
GeneralAntillesYou asked.01:52
[A2K]ok, thx01:53
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[A2K]is there some way to disable word completition and capitilizing?01:56
[A2K]found it01:56
[A2K]great. it works.01:57
[A2K]i love nokia.01:57
ralannlol, that pissed me off the first 5minutes01:59
[A2K]i hate that feature on my old siemens phone -- it cant be diasbled there02:01
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[A2K]what is the best IM client? i need jabber and maybe icq02:05
Raytraypidgin will work.02:05
t_s_oit a updated version with fixed icq available?02:06
Atariiare you on 2008?02:06
Atariiif so you the rtcomm beta, then you get them in teh default chat program02:06
Atariis/you/use02:06
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* [A2K] is going to sell old windows-based ppc tomorrow :)02:10
* Jaffa beds02:12
kkrustyI was hoping to talk to pupnik02:13
kkrustyoh well...02:13
[A2K]omg i found php5 package O_o02:17
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[A2K]i LOVE nokia!02:26
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pupnikhi kkrusty02:31
pupnikheading out the door02:31
pupnikwhat up02:31
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kkrustypupnik: lcuk told me to ask you about projects on your website02:32
pupniktons of things to do!02:33
kkrustypupnik: I started to play with those touchme games. But then I figured "surely there must be something better to do"02:33
kkrustyplay = play with code02:33
pupnikevery thing needs work.  pick someting you like and i give you a list of todos02:34
kkrustycool02:34
Navi,Ew02:34
NaviWork02:34
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kkrustypupnik: pupnik.de?02:35
pupnikkkrusty: just email pupnik@pupnik.de (and please don't give out that address)02:36
pupnikADHGEOAUBARSDAjlh02:36
pupnikthat was supposed to be a PM02:36
kkrusty:D02:36
* pupnik bangs head on keyboard02:36
pupnikoh well02:36
Kegetyshopefully you have a good spam blocker :P02:36
jottgoogle spam bot here we go!02:36
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pupnikok i'm out02:37
kkrustypupnik: ok. Thanks. I'll look into it this weekend02:38
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Navipoor pupnik02:41
NaviExpect web crawlers to pick up your email and start spamming you02:42
kkrustyI usually have one main address and a bunch of others that are forwards. I give away those to the masses02:42
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bexmobileanyone use plazer?05:44
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yigalIf I want to use command line tools with a n8xx, mutt, irssi, newsbeuter, bash or zsh, python etc. will using the n800 be far more challenging vs. n810?06:05
yigalexcuse me, without an external keyboard of course06:07
yigalthat would be cheating06:07
yigal:)06:07
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straindDoes anybody have a .deb for kismet?  The old repository doesn't have it any longer.06:13
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Grackle_Probably, yigal06:22
Grackle_It's entirely possible. I wouldn't call it more 'challenging,' but it would quite likely be slower.06:23
yigalGrackle_: the price difference is unfortunately a huge consideration for me, I'm a poor grad. student, but this technology is really hard to pass up when vim, mutt, tex, python etc. are available in such a sexy but functional package06:27
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Grackle_yigal, Yeah, I can't afford the N810 either, I got the N800.06:33
yigalGrackle_: is it serving you well, and what do you use it for?06:34
derfyigal: The hardware keyboard really isn't that great.06:35
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Grackle_I find it to be more of a novelty than anything. I just like trying to get it to do different things. Recently, I got gcc and make and compiled gforth on the device. Just started make and popped it in my pocket. I went to work and when I checked it at lunchtime, I had a working forth system.06:35
derfThe main advantage is that it doesn't take up half your screen real-estate.06:35
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derfThe on-screen keyboard can also be reconfigured, so you can actually get a lot more of the keys.06:36
Grackle_Where could I get the most money for my lightly used 770? I've considered putting it on ebay.06:37
yigalwell that's it I'm getting an n80006:38
Grackle_I need some money for my MSI Wind fund06:38
yigalGrackle_: nice :), but bucks06:38
Grackle_But bucks?06:38
yigalnot so many06:39
Grackle_I'm hoping I can get 100 or so.06:39
Navilol06:39
Grackle_But I'm not sure how likely that is.06:39
Grackle_Heh, Navi laughs. :|06:39
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yigaldoes anyone here use irssi, mutt, vim, emacs with n800?06:40
Grackle_I also plan on selling my HP dv500t. Hopefully I can get 400 or 450 for that.06:40
Grackle_yigal, I would not use emacs. Using modifier keys with the onscreen keyboard is a pain in the ass.06:41
Grackle_I'm not sure if it would even be possible06:41
Grackle_vim is usable06:41
derfI used IRC and vim.06:41
Grackle_irssi works just fine06:41
Grackle_mutt ought to work fine06:41
derfAs I said, the main problem is you really only get a couple of lines of scrollback.06:42
yigalgood, good to hear, so a little gnu screen + those mentioned above and I'm really set, my mouth waters06:42
derfYes, by "use IRC" I meant, ssh+screen+irssi.06:42
yigalderf: scrollback, you mean xterm keyboard history or something else06:43
derfyigal: I meant on IRC.06:43
yigalah06:43
yigalderf: I imagine even with 8pt font :)06:44
Navi770s go for like 50 on ebay06:44
Grackle_Really Navi? I suppose I'll just keep it then.06:44
derfyigal: My eyes aren't that good anymore.06:44
derfI mean, 480 sounds like a lot of pixels, but that's really quite a high dpi...06:45
yigalderf: perhaps I shouldn't be so unkind to them, even though my eyes still are06:45
Navi50-80 I've seen06:45
* Grackle_ puts a few on watch06:45
yigalderf: I'm getting one, it is good to read other's being able to use the device for something similar to my interest needs06:45
Naviusing weechat on it with the font small06:46
NaviI loves mah high dpi06:46
derfOh, it looks beautiful, no doubt.06:47
yigaloh, I realize the 810 is far superior trying to read with the sun, is the 800 viewable and if not can I do something to help, probably wear dark sunglasses :)06:48
Grackle_I lost the stylus for my N800 a few days ago.06:48
Grackle_I have the spare one around here somewhere. I need to find it.06:48
NaviGrackle_, ouch06:48
yigalGrackle_: that's not good, sorry06:48
derfyigal: The N800 is completely unviewable in direct sunlight.06:48
derfThe best thing you can do is stand in the shade.06:49
Naviually do06:49
Naviusually*06:49
Grackle_You can get by standing in the shade, but really it's not made for the outdoors.06:49
derfYeah, it's not a problem so much until you want to walk around with maemo mapper open.06:49
Navibut not so cool :(06:49
Grackle_I only brought it to work a couple times (I'm a landscaper), because it's not terribly useful outside.06:50
GreyFoxxHow viewable is the 810's screen in direct sunlight ?06:50
Naviindeed06:50
GreyFoxxI have an 810 in transit to me right now :)06:50
NaviIt's fine06:50
GreyFoxxHurray for  Moms and birthday gifts :)06:50
yigalI'll have to buy an umbrella then perhaps :)06:50
derfYou lose a lot of the color.06:50
derfBut it's perfectly readable.06:51
GreyFoxxFirst time my mother has known what to buy me for once :)06:51
NaviI don't have an 810, but my phone had a transflective screen06:51
GreyFoxxderf: Sweet06:51
NaviTotally readable though06:51
yigalright, could I put something over the screen to make it readable?06:51
Grackle_An umbrella.06:51
Navilol06:51
Grackle_:)06:51
yigala little more, at least, I do a lot of stuff out doors06:52
Grackle_Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do.06:52
yigalGrackle_: yes, but just the monitor not the whol n80006:52
yigalfare enough06:52
yigals/whol/&e06:52
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Grackle_You might be able to find a screen protector that decreases glare or something, but that's about it.06:52
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yigalGrackle_: yes, I was thinking about something along those lines06:53
yigalGrackle_: plus dark sunglasses and an umbrella06:53
pupnikoh i wanted to say something clever06:53
pupnikwhat was it06:53
Grackle_Oh sweet, this is the first time I've seen the update notification icon in diablo.06:54
Grackle_It works nicely.06:54
* Grackle_ Update All06:54
pupnikcan'tremember06:55
NaviI have yet tsee it06:55
pupnikbut i did drop my n810 onto concrete and it survived06:55
Grackle_hah06:55
Navis/tsee/to see06:55
pupnikNavi you were doing some game weren't you?:06:55
Naviwas I06:56
Grackle_I dropped my N800 onto a hard floor (linoleum tile over concrete), and the battery cover and battery went flying, but it was otherwise fine.06:56
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derfMy N800 has taken some nasty falls onto hardwood at velocity (tripping over power cord, etc.), and is no worse for wear.06:57
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NaviI've dropped my N800 onto ceramic tile from waist high a few times06:57
doc|home^ not recommended06:58
Navis'all good06:58
yigalI found this, so it seems not so bad, I'm definately purchasing an n800, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OEERQ0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top06:59
derfyigal: You want the Boxwave one.07:00
derfOh, wait, that is the Boxwave one.07:01
NaviXD07:01
NaviI've had the boxwave long enoughzto where I've forgotten that the N800 screen is glossy07:02
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qwerty12~lart notepad++ for dodgy highlight and hurting my eyes at 7:00 AM09:05
* infobot beats the living hamstercrap out of notepad++ for dodgy highlight and hurting my eyes at 7:00 AM09:05
qwerty12infobot, thanks09:05
infobotqwerty12: no problem09:05
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RST38hyawn09:09
RST38hqwerty: I have got automatic x3 magnification working in VGBA09:09
qwerty12RST38h, Brilliant! Thanks :)09:09
RST38halso found a bunch of datasheets on OMAP if you are interested09:09
qwerty12datasheets aren't my thing, I don't know much about low level hardware stuff :)09:10
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RST38hThere is a complete datasheet on OMAP3 and also a complete pre-OMAP1 datasheet. Of these two, you can probably approximate OMAP2 :)09:10
qwerty12Ok, [if -x] means if that file exists do this etc... but what's the one for saying if that file doesn't exist?09:12
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RST38hinverse of that09:14
RST38ha moment09:14
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RST38hif !-x09:15
qwerty12Thank you09:15
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zaplcuk: what you were meaning as "resolution"? Is this the physical screen resolution, or it's just the size of the buffer you're upscaling to 800x480?09:41
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bexdoes the n800 come with two memory card slots, or one?09:47
qwerty12209:48
bexhmm09:48
bexwhy do i only see one?09:48
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qwerty12See one physically or software wise?09:49
bexphysically09:49
doc|homebex: take out the battery09:49
bexoh09:49
bexis it under there?09:49
doc|homeyeah, they hid it :)09:49
bexthe other one is pretty hidden too09:50
qwerty12Internal one is behind the battery cover, external slot is revealed when you open up the stand09:50
qwerty12(I know, I had trouble finding the external one when I got my N800 :))09:50
bexhow come it doesn't eject? i had to use tweezers on the external one09:51
doc|homebecause that'd take up more space09:51
qwerty12You know that sd cards have a little ridge on the end?09:51
* doc|home used fingernails09:51
qwerty12^09:51
keesjbut the fun only reall starts when you try to remove the one from the n810. I ended up attaching a tape to it09:51
qwerty12Meh, the N800 battery was a nightmare to remove09:51
keesjbex: but you first need to push it09:52
ShadowJKanyone got any suggestion for /fast/ minisd cards to use with n810?09:53
bexi am looking for one right now09:53
bextrying to decide how big of one i need09:53
bexhow big is kde?09:54
qwerty12Minimum needed is 2gb09:54
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qwerty12Shell scripts hate qwerty12.09:55
bexis there anyway to use a non-bluetooth gps with it?09:55
qwerty12Set up usbhost and insmod usbserial. I think one guy on here did it.09:56
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bexhow does that work exactly?09:57
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qwerty12No idea, you end up getting a /dev/ttyS* device which maemo mapper.09:57
bexwhat is that?09:57
bexwould i need a usb port on my gps?10:01
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ShadowJKhm, wikipedia says max transfer speed with *sd and SPI is 25mbit/s, I guess the card slots on N800/N810 use spi...10:07
qwerty12Dunno about that but there is a kernel patch that enables a higher unsupported SD speed.10:08
bexhow is the brand PQI?10:12
zapbex: if you mean a company that makes card readers & such, it's the cheapest sh*t I ever seen10:20
bexyeah10:20
bexcheap is why i was going to buy one10:20
bexdo you mean quality wise?10:20
zapdon't10:20
bexok10:20
zapyou'll regret :)10:20
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bexwould this work do you think?  http://www.semsons.com/blbapafgaeta.html10:31
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zapbex: if you're asking me, I can't look right now - disassembled my mouse into pieces :)10:36
bexwhy did you do that?10:36
bexand i was asking whoever is listening10:36
bexwhy is this channel so quiet with so many users?10:37
zapbecause its a channel for busy people :)10:37
zapbut often its not so quiet10:37
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acydlorddepends on the time of day really, since it's a global community10:41
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qwerty12Wow, tar is slow. Serves me right for using it under windows >.<10:46
zaptar is fast10:47
zapwindoz is slow :-P10:47
qwerty12I know :)10:47
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yigalderf: thanks for telling me that boxwave is a good product, was away for a few hours, sorry for not thanking you sooner10:53
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RST38hBackup time11:22
Saviqguys, anyone successfully using a2dp with the remote control capabilities? I've got audio playing, but no way to pause / switch songs?11:22
Saviq~/.a2dpd is set up to use kagu -remote ...11:22
infobotokay, Saviq11:22
qwerty12infobot, forget that11:23
infoboti didn't have anything called 'that' to forget, qwerty1211:23
qwerty12heh :/11:23
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GNUtonHi11:42
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RST38hHello Gnuton12:29
RST38hActually, wanted to ask: what is the magic trick to make navigation work in Maemo Mapper?12:29
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pupniki'm gonna take a little trip12:32
pupnikdown paradise's endless lawn12:32
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pupnikthey say that travel broadens the mind12:33
pupniktil you can't get your head out of doors12:33
pupnikelvis costello - god's comic12:33
yigalhow much should I be willing to pay for a near new condition n800?12:33
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GeneralAntillesyigal, where are you?12:35
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pupnikthat is decisive12:36
pupniksometimes i think i've had deja-vu before12:36
bexis that deja-vu deja-vu?12:37
pupnikyeah12:43
GNUtonhey RST38h12:43
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qwerty12Ok, these are the cflags I'm using, any dodgy ones?:12:46
qwerty12-mcpu=arm1136jf-s -mtune=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -mabi=aapcs-linux -s -pipe -O3 -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fforce-addr -fforce-mem -falign-loops=2 -funroll-loops -msoft-float -fstrict-aliasing -mstructure-size-boundary=32 -fexpensive-optimizations -fweb -frename-registers -falign-functions=32 -falign-labels -falign-jumps -finline -finline-functions -funroll-all-loops --param max-unrolled-insns=6012:46
qwerty12(all copied from this channel :P)12:47
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RST38hfunroll-loops is unsafe12:49
qwerty12Okie, thanks, removing now.12:49
RST38hmay also slow things down12:49
RST38hat least on a meager ARM12:49
RST38hsame with unroll-all-loops - you definitely do not want it12:50
yigalGeneralAntilles: In America12:50
RST38hremove --param as well12:50
zap-mabi too12:50
RST38hyea, no need for mabi12:50
qwerty12Ah, ok, thank you RST38h & zap12:51
zapand -fforce-addr, -fforce-mem12:51
zapno need to be smarter than -O*12:51
RST38hwhat are force- flags?12:51
zapthose are enfoced by miscelaneous -Ox12:51
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zapvarious optimizations12:51
zapbasically everything that's safe is enabled with -O312:51
zapand if it's not enabled, I wouldn't recommend it - gcc developers know better than you12:52
RST38hI would just leave floating point settings and delete the rest12:52
zap-finline-functions could be a cpu I-cache killer too12:52
pupnikare -O3 flags optimized for arm?12:52
zapthey are optimized for everything12:52
RST38hIt is known that floating point stuff has to be tweaked12:52
GeneralAntillesyigal, personally, I wouldn't go over $200.12:52
pupnikwell then no, they are not optimized for arm12:52
RST38hpupnik: it is an arm tool chain :)12:52
RST38hso O3 is most likely optimized for arm :)12:52
GeneralAntillesyigal, it depends a bit on the time you want to put in, though.12:52
GeneralAntillesIf you just want to get it _now_, then you may end up a bit over $200.12:53
zappupnik: every machine-specific code in gcc can override -Ox options and enable their preferred optimizations12:53
RST38hA new one is $23512:53
RST38h+ shipping. So not sure if going over $200 is a good idea12:53
zapI would assume gcc/arm developers know that12:53
GeneralAntilles$299 at Amazon, RST38h.12:53
pupnikok ty12:53
RST38hThat is at Amazon12:53
GeneralAntillesWhere is your $235?12:53
GeneralAntillesNobody else has them in stock12:53
pupniki've seen -Os run faster than -O312:54
zapI also see no meaning to use both  -msoft-float and -mfpu=vfp together12:54
zappupnik: that happens not only on arm12:54
RST38hGA: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=n800&btnG=Search+Products&cid=3395770308078996794&scoring=p12:54
RST38hGA: One of them will definitely have it in stock :)12:54
zapits because embedded devices likes small code (small CPU caches)12:54
GeneralAntillesYeah, I went through that list yesterday12:54
GeneralAntillesbunch of fly-by-night retailers12:55
pupnik32kB data, 32kB instruction12:55
GeneralAntillesI'll pass, thanks.12:55
zapyep, damn little caches12:55
zapPCs have 2-4Mb nowadays12:55
zapand had 128k in the worst times12:55
RST38hWell, even if we ignore Brooklyn ghost shops, there are still quite a few left12:55
kulvezap: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2008/05/17/gcc-options-and-floating-point/12:55
RST38hExample: http://www.thenerds.net/NOKIA.Nokia_N800_Internet_Tablet.0276316.html?affid=8&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0276316^~^NOKIA12:55
pupniki'm quite happy with performance on ARM, but there are a couple of emulators that are designed assuming those larger caches12:56
zapkulve: <<Looks like the default for -mfpu is vfp and the default for -mfloat-abi is soft>>12:56
pupnikparticularly dosbox12:56
RST38hhttp://www.despercia.com/nokia-n800.html?utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=Comparison+site&utm_term=Nokia+N800&utm_campaign=Nokia+N800 (I would call this one on the phone though)12:56
RST38hpupnik: the cache thing - unavoidable in a lot of applications12:57
RST38hpupnik: when CPU manufacturer tells you how fast his CPU is, always ask about memory bus performance and cache sizes12:57
RST38hBecause about 75% of really useful applications will require at least 512kB cache to run fast, OR fast SDRAM bus12:58
pupnikyeah... our limit is mainly power consumption12:59
kulvemodern cpus start to use little power when the power management in the sw side works properly..13:00
RST38hit is a trade off between power and memory speed, yes13:00
RST38hkulve: you are forgetting that once you start something like dosbox, there is no way to use 'little power' as your cpu runs in a busy loop13:01
RST38hSo, the power management stuff mainly applies to situations where device is not doing anything anyway13:01
kulvemost apps are idle most of the time. Apps that aren't, needs to be fixed. I don't see why an emulator would be any different from that..13:02
kulveofc, e.g. playing video on a low end device like n8x0, will take all the cpu there is and then there's nothing one can do13:03
kulveemulators tend to need also quite a lot of cpu power, but I'm not really familiar with them..13:04
kulvebut when playing e.g. oggs on n8x0 it's idle 80% of the time13:05
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pupniksounds about right13:10
pupniki can't speculate about what circumstances might allow an emulator to go idle13:13
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pupnikbut i'm quite sure they're so seldom that it is not worth coding-for13:13
sbaturzioAloha!13:14
pupnikciao13:14
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yigalGeneralAntilles: ok, then I will try to less than $220, not too much work for this price but not so bad either13:22
yigalGeneralAntilles: thank you13:22
GeneralAntillesSure13:22
GeneralAntillesWish they hadn't discontinued it. . . . :\13:22
GeneralAntillesNokia really needs to always have a tablet in that price range.13:22
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yigalGeneralAntilles: I was shocked at the n810's price, couldn't stomache it but then I realized the n800 is almost as good, except for the glossy screen - which I can cover - so I am happy once again13:25
GeneralAntillesEh, the N800 started at $40013:25
GeneralAntillesReally, $200 is a fantastic deal, and $350 is a good deal. ;)13:26
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yigalGeneralAntilles: I'm poor so I'm glad the n800 is around :)13:26
GeneralAntillesand both screens are glossy13:27
bexcan anyone recommend a cheap bluetooth gps receiver?13:27
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GeneralAntillesThe N810's is just transflective.13:27
GeneralAntillesbex, get an MTK-based i-Blue or Holux13:27
GeneralAntillesi-Blue 737 is nice13:27
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bexto use with my n80013:27
GeneralAntillesor 770, or N81013:28
GeneralAntillesDoesn't matter.13:28
bexk13:28
bexwhy those 2?13:28
GeneralAntillesBecause those are the best brands13:28
bexoh ok13:28
bexi didn't even know what these strange "gps receivers" with no display were when i first saw them13:29
pupnikgotta run13:29
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GeneralAntillesLater, pupnik. :)13:29
bexif i am going to be downloading maps, what size sd card do you think i'll need?13:29
GeneralAntilles4-8GB is in the good price range right now13:30
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bexwell it only holds 8gb i believe13:32
bexis that per slot or total do you know?13:32
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GeneralAntillesEr, the hardware can handle up to 2048GB13:32
bexthat's not what the nseries site says13:32
bexoh i meant for the n800 not the gps13:33
GeneralAntillesYeah, well, they don't know what they're talking about. ;)13:33
GeneralAntillesNokia just tested the N800 when 8GB was about the most available.13:33
bexoh13:33
GeneralAntillesIt has SDHC support, so it supports anything SDHC13:33
bexok13:33
GeneralAntillesWhich goes up to 2048GB13:33
bexthat's good to know13:33
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GeneralAntillesYou can drop two 32GB cards in there right now without issue.13:33
bexwow13:34
GeneralAntillesAssuming you have $300 to drop on two 32GB cards, that is.13:34
bexyeah13:34
bexi think i will have no use for my ipod now13:34
bexwell i guess it's smaller13:34
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bexis there any kind of wifi locator that works with os2008?13:36
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bexi tried using plazer but it didnt work13:36
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fnordiansliphi all.13:42
fnordianslipafter upgrading to diablo and buggering about with loads of stuf, i notice that canola2 has no text visible.  any ideas?13:43
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tuukkahwhere can i see an example of what i should and could have in sources.list on diablo?14:28
bexhow do you even edit sources.list?14:30
tuukkahfor example, i'm puzzled that there's no http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/free/14:30
GeneralAntilles /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list14:30
GeneralAntilleshttp://pastebin.ca/106295314:30
tuukkahbex, you can use the application manager repository config, or a text editor like vi14:30
bexyeah i had to do it through the application manager14:30
GeneralAntillesEr, tuukkah, why?14:31
bexit doesn't come with a default text editor , does it?14:31
tuukkahbex, there's vi14:31
bexk14:31
GeneralAntillestuukkah, that'd be deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free14:31
tuukkahGeneralAntilles, i was missing a lot of packages and they're in http://repository.maemo.org/dists/chinook/free/14:31
tuukkahGeneralAntilles, sorry, i meant such a uri doesn't exist14:32
tuukkah(... returns 404)14:32
GeneralAntillesThis is what you're after: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/14:32
tuukkahthat's where i try to install nano and less from =)14:32
tuukkahGeneralAntilles, extras seems to be different from non-extras, at least in the case of chinook14:33
GeneralAntillesNon-extras is the SDK repo. . . .14:33
GeneralAntilles[7:31am] <GeneralAntilles> tuukkah, that'd be deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free14:33
tuukkahGeneralAntilles, that one for chinook works, but for diablo it gives a 40414:34
* GeneralAntilles sighs.14:34
GeneralAntilleshttp://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/sdk/free/14:34
tuukkahok so /dists/diable/sdk corresponds to /dists/chinook ?14:37
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tuukkahplus /dists/diablo/tools - that's where nano seems to be14:37
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tuukkahhow do i write that in sources.list?14:39
tuukkahok, deb http://repository.maemo.org diablo/tools free non-free14:40
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/development/tools/14:41
tuukkahfound it, thanks14:41
* lcuk is melting his head with svn14:41
tuukkahlooks good, now there's only the "(expected diablo but got )" warning14:42
GeneralAntillesAnybody else notice an updated tablet-browser-daemon?14:43
lcuki havent even got diablo yet so thats unlikely14:43
GeneralAntillesWell, you're obviously excluded from that question. :P14:44
lcuk\o/14:44
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crashanddielcuk, didn't you reflash a couple days ago ?14:46
bexGeneralAntilles: what is the collabora repository?14:46
crashanddieO HAI LCUK btw14:46
lcukno crashanddie, i thought about it when it was quiet14:46
GeneralAntillesIt's got the telepathy plugins for rtcomm.14:46
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bexis pidgin the best chat program to use?14:48
GeneralAntillesNot in my opinion14:48
GeneralAntillesbig and bloaty and unpleasant14:48
GeneralAntillesuse the built-in one, instead.14:48
bexbut that one only uses jabber doesnt it?14:50
GeneralAntillesand SIP and GTalk14:51
beavisit doesnt14:51
bexor google talk14:51
bexyeah14:51
beavisand and and..14:51
GeneralAntillesbut the collabora repo contains the telepathy plugins14:51
bexnot aim?14:51
beavisaim too14:51
GeneralAntillesSo just install the appropriate plugins from that repository.14:51
bexoh14:52
bexis that what it does?14:52
bexi don't understand what the telepathy plugins are for14:53
GeneralAntillesThey add services for rtcomm.14:54
bexi guess i will find out in a minute14:54
bexwell i installed haze but i don't know what it did14:57
bexi don't know what rtcomm is14:57
GeneralAntillesaccount-telepathy-plugin too14:57
GeneralAntillesIt's the built-in chat framework. . . .14:57
GeneralAntilleshttp://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/14:57
tuukkahi would add the sources.list lines to the new wiki, but i don't know where. any suggestions?14:59
bexoh sweet14:59
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crashanddie~curse g++15:01
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, g++ !15:01
GeneralAntillestuukkah, don't.15:01
GeneralAntillesToo user and version specific15:01
bexwhat is the best program for video calls?15:02
GeneralAntillesbex, depends15:02
bexare any of them free to call a line?15:02
GeneralAntillesrtcomm with GTalk, Gizmo or aMSN.15:02
bexgtalk has video?15:02
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GeneralAntillestablet-to-tablet15:02
bexi thought i heard gizmo was free to call regular phones15:03
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crashanddiedepends which country you're in, I guess15:03
bexUS15:03
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, isn't it a bit early for you to be on IRC on a Saturday morning?15:03
tuukkahGeneralAntilles, ok. thanks for your help!15:04
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GeneralAntillesQuite possibly, crashanddie. ;)15:04
bexdoes anyone know if maemoscrobbler works with canola2?15:09
GeneralAntillesEr, Canola2 has a last.fm plugin. . . .15:10
bexoh15:12
bexi did not see many options in it15:12
GeneralAntillesIt scrobbles.15:12
tuukkahouch, any workarounds for Bug 2772: Metalayer Crawler adds all oggs from Map application (with large CPU and memory usage)15:12
bexyeah but where do you put in your login info15:12
GeneralAntillesIn settings, maybe?15:13
bexnope15:13
GeneralAntillesYep.15:13
bexmaybe i have to find the plugin/15:13
GeneralAntillesYes, like I said, it's a plugin15:13
GeneralAntillesIt has to be installed15:13
bexoh ok15:13
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras15:13
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kulvetuukkah: not an easy one. You can open the metalayer's sqlite db and change the mime type15:15
kulvetuukkah: https://garage.maemo.org/forum/message.php?msg_id=408915:16
tuukkahkulve, stopping metalayer crawler is "invoke-rc.d metalayer-crawler0 stop"?15:20
kulveyeah, I think so15:21
bexhmmm i still don't see it in settings15:22
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lardman"morning"15:25
* lcuk passes lardman a brew15:25
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lardmannot special- I trust :)15:26
lcukof course not15:26
lcukmy eldest made me a coffee this morning and it was like water15:27
lcukhows your optimization coming lardman15:27
tuukkahthanks kulve, a nice hack!15:27
lardmanlcuk: I've re-written the code to use a thread and shared memory, time to compile and see where the mistakes are15:28
kulvetuukkah: np :)15:28
lcukits a shame its so blind, any luck in finding anything timing related15:29
lardmanlcuk: no, afraid not15:29
lcukbooo15:29
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lcukright, moving to 810 - youngest is wanting to play puzzlefarter15:29
lardmanlcuk: I might have to just run bits of code to test them, but it's time consuming writing a test harness which will feed in valid data, etc15:29
lcukyer i know that feeling - early on i had to find timing info.  have you considered posting to the dsp ML?15:30
lardmanlcuk: I didn't get much joy the last time I posted there15:31
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lcuk2thats abit of a shame, does ssvb know anything about the dsp, or otherrs15:32
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lardmanssvb has done some testing, kulve has too15:33
lcuk2i wonder where all the dsp coders hangout15:34
lardmanthey probably have to do some much during the day that they don't want to do any in their spare time :)15:36
lcuk2lol15:36
lcuk2isnt that the same with a lot of what we do15:37
lardmanwell I don't do DSP programming for my day job, so perhaps I am willing to do it at other times15:38
lcuk2im trying to get my head around svn at the mo15:38
lcuk2i dont do anything like this in my dayjob, but would be more than happy to15:39
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lardmanlcuk2: what do you need to know about svn?15:40
lardmanhi qwerty12_N80015:40
qwerty12_N800hi lardman15:40
lcuk2lardman, basically everything, im trying to learn whats needd without screwing up my own code or the garage repo15:41
lcuk2ive made the mistake of playing with git first and am liking what i am seeing15:41
lardmansvn add, svn commit15:42
lardmansvn delete15:42
lardmanall pretty easy15:42
lcuk2how do i tell it who i am15:42
lardmanyou have to add the code to the repo first, then extract it somewhere, and use it from there15:42
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lardmanwhat's your Garage url?15:43
lcuk2ummm its under liqbase15:43
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sp3000shouldn't it generally pick that up from login15:43
lcuk2am on 810 sp its hard to grab15:43
lardmanhttps://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=71615:43
sp3000'user' heh15:44
lardmanah, doesn't say how to create it15:44
lardmanhttp://artis.imag.fr/~Xavier.Decoret/resources/svn/index.html for example, you want to import an existing project15:44
lardmansvn import /trunk/liqbase/ file://home/gary/liqbase/ -m "Initial import"15:45
sp3000but I suppose it should pick it up from the login to the other end, no?15:45
lcuk2yer sp3000, but im gonna need to tell it who i am.. ill read that when i get big machine back15:45
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lardmanX-Fade: ping15:46
lardmanX-Fade: might be worth having a "how to get your code into SVN in Garage" page somewhere15:46
lcuk2lol lardman, this would prob be easier if i had //n810/dev/liqbase available15:47
lcuk2ive got tortoise on windows15:47
lcuk2i think there is, its just the command line that scares me15:47
lardmanlcuk2: Windows? How do you compile? On the N810?15:47
lcuk2yer15:48
qwerty12_N800https://wiki.maemo.org/Getting_started_with_Maemo_Garage#Establishing_SVN15:48
qwerty12_N800may help15:48
lcuk2:) hence the difficulties15:48
lardmanWell you could probably find a GUI client for windows that makes life easier15:48
lardmanqwerty12_N800: thanks, I'd not seen that before15:48
lcuk2but i cant find a free sshfs now can i get ummm network sharing working15:49
lcuk2nor can i get15:49
lcuk2i think its just ima hacker not a project manager15:50
* lcuk2 knows his limits15:50
lardmansvn's worth it once you set it up, then you just type commit and up go your changes15:50
lardmannice and easy15:50
lardmanpita to work out how to do it first time though :)15:50
qwerty12_N800lcuk2, I think winscp does sshfs15:51
lcuk2yer and not being able to spread around and play first is doubly unhelpful15:51
GeneralAntilleslardman, stick up a wiki page?15:51
GeneralAntillesOh, qwerty12 linked it.15:52
lardmanGeneralAntilles: qwerty12_N800 just pointed out a page15:52
sp3000this reminds me, I should learn to not suck at git15:52
lcuk2qwerty, yes but not integrated as a windows drive that i can use tortoise on15:52
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I'll ask X-Fade to stick a link to that page on the SCM page in the Garage projects15:52
qwerty12_N800lcuk2, ah, i see, i'll look around15:52
lcuk2sp git was easy for me to setup and quick from the basic tests ive looked at15:52
sp3000like, squashing away commits that turned out to be broken15:53
lardmanI think they are probably much of a muchness for these small projects with very few contributors15:53
lardmanThe OE mailing list had lots of discussion about what to use a few years back15:54
lcuk2well it seems logical and the repo is just self contained in the project15:54
* GeneralAntilles guesses he doesn't have commit access to the adv-backlight svn.15:54
* GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you with a stick.15:54
lardmanGeneralAntilles: So you going to come over for the Berlin do?15:55
GeneralAntillesHighly unlikely15:55
tuukkahare there better ideas than to have /home/user/MyDocs as a symlink to /media/mmc2/MyDocs? i don't quite see how the special dirs are supposed to be used15:55
lcuk2boooooo gen15:55
lcuk2apply15:55
GeneralAntillesI don't want to get in the way of somebody who's actually going to be able to go.15:55
lcuk2but gen, you have done a great deal of good in this community15:56
lcuk2we all wanna buy you a beer15:56
GeneralAntillesThere'll be other get togethers. :P15:56
lardmanGeneralAntilles: We'll do a whip around for a passport15:56
lcuk2isnt reggie american15:57
GeneralAntillesYes15:57
lardmanit's a long flight in a suitcase15:57
lcuk2sneak in his luggage15:57
lardman:)15:57
lcuk2heh15:57
GeneralAntillesStill doesn't fix scheduling. :P15:57
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lcuk2ok gen, i know it  conflicts with your furries conference, but for one year they will just have to find themselves another mascot15:58
GeneralAntilles<_<15:59
lardmanlcuk2: I've got a conference that week too, I'll have to see if I can escape in time to go for a couple of days15:59
lcuk2oooer lard,  its the fri/sat that maemo part is isnt it16:00
GeneralAntilles19th/20th16:00
lardmanyeah, I'm not sure if my conf finishes on Thursday or Friday though16:01
lcuk2we wll just put a cardboard cutout of you and gen up on stage16:01
lcuk2record your tracks and playback with an 800 head16:02
Atariiis there a guide to compiling on the device?16:03
lardmanhmm, I'll have to think of something to talk about too16:03
Atarii(for noobs)16:03
lardmanAtarii: ask lcuk2, he seems to like that sort of madness ;)16:03
lcuk2at leasr this time i have something to say16:03
lcuk2atarii, ill chat to you in a bit if you remind me, its tough on nit typing16:04
lcuk2i still feel like a noob16:04
lcuk2there is so mjch i still dont know and not enough time to learn16:04
lardmanthat's life16:05
lardmanit's a case of choosing wisely16:05
lcuk2ive got a load of partial modules needing my attention - liqbase as you have are just the stable element16:05
lcuk2but i need to get it up on svn so others can try to do the bits i cant - packaging initially16:06
qwerty12_N800packaging is quite easy :) (but I'm a dodgy packager so you know...)16:08
lcuk2i alsothink ive found a way to add new modules without having to go to a central location to teach the app whats available16:08
lcuk2ie to grow new features quickly without effecting anything else16:09
lcuk2yer qwerty but on 810 i donthave all tools available16:09
lcuk2hence the interest in andlinux16:10
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Atariilcuk, it would be helpful to get a nudge in the right direction later on please, what i need to install to get started etc16:11
lcuk2ok np16:11
Atariii can keep busy atm converting my "2in1" adapter so it fits in my 77016:11
GeneralAntillesIsn't there an on-device sdk package, now, that'll get you started pretty well?16:11
qwerty12_N800hmm, once you got a proper debian folder set up, you may be able to just dpkg-buildpackage off the device (not sure what deps would be needed though)16:11
lcuk2it will help me as well, ill talk and document whwile im goiing it should be on the wiki16:11
GeneralAntilleslcuk2++ ;)16:12
lcuk2buildpackage isntt avail16:12
Atariiim hoping to learn so i can compile the rt73 drivers on it16:12
lcuk2gen, i need it documenting for when i change to diablo16:12
qwerty12_N800lcuk, it shouldn't be hard to compile :), if someone wont do it, i'll try later16:13
lcuk2atarii, big projects dont work to well, there is no autoconf tools16:13
lcuk2qwerty i gthink its the other deps16:14
* qwerty12_N800 goes on debian packages to check them out16:14
lcuk2autoconf was a killer for me, it wanteddto replace debiantools which would have vaped everything16:14
qwerty12_N800remind me later, i'll hack up a package that doesn't interfere16:15
qwerty12_N800(do you use diablo or chinook sdk?)16:15
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lcuk2at the mo im in chinook but that will change16:16
lcuk2right, im gonna grab some breakfast, thanks for the chat guys at least i know i have some direction ill readback in a bit and followup on stuff16:17
qwerty12_N800breakfast? :p16:18
lcuk2heh16:18
qwerty12_N800I see what you mean about dpkg-buildpackage, i could build the stuff but then you have busybox problem.16:19
lcuk2..16:20
lcuk2i forgot i could walkaround with this16:20
lcuk2ive never taken you lot around my crib before :p16:21
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qwerty12_N800:p16:21
GeneralAntilleslcuk2, I always have my N800 in my pocket when I'm at home.16:22
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lcuk2i do as well but i dont useinternet normally i sketch and plan16:23
lcuk2i lookd back through it all lastnight - im tempted to do microsketch twittering16:23
lcuk2gen, how do you make sure you dont break it, ive got mine in a semihard pda pouch16:27
* lcuk2 still curses missus for losing his16:27
* lardman thinks of a fry up16:28
GeneralAntillesBreak it?16:29
GeneralAntillesThey're pretty durable16:29
GeneralAntillesI don't keep my keys in that pocket for one thing, though.16:29
lcukim always afraid of walking into the corner of a desk with it16:29
GeneralAntillesand I have the softcase it shipped with in my pocket all the time.16:29
lcukive got a nasty couple of scratches on it16:29
GeneralAntilleslol . . .16:29
GeneralAntillesLearn to walk? :P16:30
GeneralAntillesScreen faces towards my thigh, though.16:30
lcuk:P16:30
lcukshit happens16:30
lardmanit's hard when you walk like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wippooDL6WE16:31
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Atariiclassic16:32
lcuklardman :) typically english16:33
GeneralAntillesI should probably uninstall the Flash 10 beta16:33
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GeneralAntillesit didn't fix the flash-lockups and managed to completely break YouTube16:34
lcukand you are right, my nokia would be deceased before to long16:34
lcuk"i have a silly program, and i'd like to obtain a nokia grant to help me to develop it" ;)16:35
crashanddieonly one grant16:37
crashanddie?16:37
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lcukcrashanddie, :) start small16:38
crashanddieand some guy at Nokia is going "ONE GRANT ??? YOU CALL THAT SMALL ?"16:38
lcukthey dont know how many zeros it has yet, the beancounters will have a haertattack :D16:39
lcukand a heartattack as well16:39
crashanddieheh16:39
crashanddienow there's an idea16:39
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t_s_odo beancounter even have hearts?16:51
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lcukt_s_o, yes, but they are typically made of stone16:52
t_s_ohmm, explosives then...16:52
sp3000what else would they count on a full moon16:52
lcuki think up until recently the best way to send shockwaves through a beancounter would be to tell them their codebase is being GPLed16:53
lcukright im actually going to cook my bacon now, ill b back later16:54
Atariii just had a bacon wrap16:58
Atariiits like your my brother from another mother16:58
lardmanenough of the talk about bacon, it's disturbing my concentration, I'm being pulled to the kitchen....17:00
* GeneralAntilles eats a tuna melt.17:02
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lcuk2lardman, what i want to know is why have you got 'bacon' setup as a highlight phrase in xchat :p17:02
lardmanlol17:02
lardmanI do a whois on every bacon phrase and work out how long it would take to get there :)17:03
GeneralAntillesHaha17:03
lcuk2lol17:03
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pupnikhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=N6vW2uWsro0  This Mortal Coil - Another Day17:19
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* lardman is feeling brain-fade17:57
lcukheh i just typed "arghhhhhhhh" for exactly the same reason17:57
lardmanI didn't think this shared memory sync stuff would take quite such brain power to work out the process17:58
lcukis it bad of me to consider waiting until i am with people at the summit to get hands on help sorting out the svn?17:58
lardmaninstall svn on your N810 and just follow the command line instructions?17:59
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qwerty12Pray?17:59
lcuki think it is lard, but the instructions talk about setting up proxy repos and not actually updating from where i dev18:00
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lardmanah, forget that stuff18:01
lardmanI develop directly in my local checkout18:01
lardmanwith a backup of course :)18:01
lcukbut lardman, wont that upset your mojo if other devs start working and you are part way through editing something18:02
lardmanperhaps, but it's not an issue atm18:02
lcukthe proxy gives you the space to grab and see the changes to other locations without impacting your working layout18:02
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lardmanwell that's easy enough, you could do it manually18:03
lcukim sure it is, im just not that confident with it all yet. maybe i need more wine18:03
lardmanin the first instance it will only be you using it, so just give it a go18:04
lardmanhmm, wine18:04
lardmanneed to drive later so best not :)18:04
* lcuk pours you a virtual glass anyway18:05
lcukok lardman :) ill give it a try and see if i can just configure and update directly18:06
lardmancool18:06
lcukhow did you tell svn who you are and stuff18:07
lardman--username developername18:08
lardmanit will then ask for your password18:08
lcukbut i dont have to put that in the command line each time18:08
lardmanonly when you create or checkout for the first time18:08
lardmanafter that it's saved in the metadata (hidden dir)18:09
lcukok, as long as i can transfer myself to a big machine when i get funds to get one18:09
lardmanoh yeah, you can just abandon your checkout (after "svn commit"'ing any changes and check out somewhere else18:10
lcuki get the feeling im gonna break the internet today18:11
lardmanlol I was a bit worried that I'd knacker the svn server when I started18:12
lardman~lart segfaults18:12
* infobot runs at segfaults with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut18:12
lardmancan I do this: while(*(sbc->input_flag)==1)18:14
lardmanwhere input_flag is a pointer to a short18:15
lardmanor do I need to do some casting?18:15
derfNo, that's fine as-is.18:15
lardmanhmm, my segfault must be coming from something else18:15
lcukmight not be18:16
derfWhat's the value of the pointer?18:16
lcukif the pointer is out of scope18:16
derfOr of sbc, for that matter.18:16
lcukyer..18:16
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lcukwhile(sbc && sbc->input_flag && *sbc->input_flag==1)18:17
derfNo, that's dumb.18:17
lardmansbc must exist18:17
lardmanand it does, as the rest of the code works18:17
lcuki know, but it confirms each step is valid18:17
derfYou need to _understand_ why something might become NULL before you start throwing in random NULL checks.18:17
lardmanI'll output the values and see what's going on18:17
lardmanlcuk: will be slow too18:17
lcuki know it will be slow18:18
derfSegfaults let you know that you don't understand something about your code. Papering over the symptoms is not the correct way to fix it.18:18
lcukthose are simply all the things needing checking before using the single *==1 check18:18
lardmanout of interest, is *sbc->input_flag the same?18:19
lcukyes18:20
derfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations#Mathematical_precedence18:21
lardmanWaitForInputBuffer: sbc=319726920018:21
lardmanWaitForInputBuffer: *sbc=018:21
lardmanWaitForInputBuffer: sbc->input_flag=429496729518:21
lardmanderf: thanks18:21
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lardmanapparently a segfaul on the line which was to print the value of *(sbc->input_flag)18:22
derfSuggesting it's not a valid pointer.18:22
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derf(and giving the lie to lcuk's assumption that anything non-NULL is valid)18:23
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derfMan, that Wikipedia list doesn't include the comma operator.18:23
derfThey should be ashamed of themselves.18:23
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fnordianslipisn't  4294967295 = -1 ?18:24
lardmanah, might well be18:24
derfYes.18:24
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* lardman regrets not error checking his mmap call18:25
lcukderf, my original note said out of scope18:26
lcuknot necessarily null :P18:26
derfSure... I'm just talking about the code you wrote.18:27
lcukyer it wouldnt have worked18:28
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lardmanlet's see what perror has to say about it18:30
macoutedo i have any means too make a videocall to a pc on n8x0?18:30
derfIf by "PC" you mean "Windows box", then yes.18:30
macoutederf: and what do you mean by windows box? :) does that include linux/mac os too?18:31
derfmacoute: No.18:31
macoutederf: why is that?18:31
lcuklardman, you said earlier that you take backups - isnt svn meant to be a method for managing your own backups as well18:32
derfBecause you have to download and install Nokia's special client application.18:32
derfWhich, AFAIK, is only available for Windows.18:32
qwerty12Nokia have one?18:32
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macouteok. i heard something about building the linuc-version of skype from sources would do the trick?18:33
lcukis skype os?18:33
macoutelinux ?18:33
lcukopen source18:34
macoutes/linuc/linux18:34
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lardmanlcuk: probably, I just don't know how to use it well enough18:34
macoutelcuk: afaik no, btw18:34
macoutethats maybe wwhy i couldnt find anything frim google ;)18:34
derfOh, it's gone now anyway.18:34
lcuklardman :) sounds like how im gonna be working then18:35
macoutedamn typos18:35
derfhttp://web.archive.org/web/20070819023102/http://videovoip.tableteer.nokia.com/18:35
derfI never used it, so I had no idea.18:35
lardmanError attempting to mmap: : No such device ah-ha18:35
derflardman: "Oops".18:35
qwerty12macoute, dunno if you need microphone but aMSN does webcam iirc18:35
lardmanyeah, might make things a bit difficult :)18:35
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lardmannot sure why though18:37
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lardmanhmm, all caused by a missing symbol in the dsp task18:42
lardmancurious as the dsp task descriptor was checked18:43
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RST38hmoo, all18:58
qwerty12ello18:58
RST38hlardman: so, any progress? =)18:58
GeneralAntillesmoof18:58
RST38hqwerty: ehlo (c)sendmail18:58
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lardmanRST38h: what with? SBC?18:59
qwerty12RST38h, GPLed? :P18:59
qwerty12(Or maybe not...)18:59
lardmanRST38h: in which case yes, just trying to work out how to get a DSP thread to sleep for some timeout18:59
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RST38hqwerty: bsd license afaik, but we are talking direct quote here!19:01
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lardmanhmm, 33,000,000 system ticks at 330MHz should equal 100000 us?19:01
qwerty12Hehe, they try anything on me, I'll get out the kitchen knife :P19:02
RST38hlardman: do you want it to sleep or is busy loop ok on dsp side19:02
lardmanRST38h: sleep would be better really, busy loops are bad ;)19:02
RST38h?19:02
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lardmanIn fact I'm doing shorter sleeps and counting how many times I wake19:04
lardmanso I can time out19:04
RST38hcan you use ogg decoder as an example19:04
RST38h?19:04
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lardmanas an example of what?19:05
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RST38has an example of making dsp sleep of course!:)19:05
lardmandunno, I've not looked at the timing code in that19:05
lardmanTSK_sleep(system ticks) looks like the answer anyway19:07
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RST38haha19:07
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RST38htsk tsk tsk sleep19:15
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kkrustya general question; which editors do you use to develop for maemo?19:21
qwerty12Is there an easy way to update the md5sums and Installed Size of a deb package instead of me running md5sum on each file and removing the location where the deb was unpacked and me guessing the installed side? :/19:21
qwerty12s/side/size/19:22
infobotqwerty12 meant: Is there an easy way to update the md5sums and Installed Size of a deb package instead of me running md5sum on each file and removing the location where the deb was unpacked and me guessing the installed size? :/19:22
GeneralAntilleskkrusty, how about vim?19:22
RST38hkkrusty: pico!19:23
RST38hor nano19:23
kkrustyGeneralAntilles: I should confess that I've been a VS zombie. I've gotten into the habit of having a debugger embedded into the IDE19:23
derfkkrusty: You'll quickly get out of that habit.19:24
derfSince there isn't a single one worth a damn.19:24
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kkrustynano + gdb it is then.  About vim I find it hard to remember the keys19:25
GeneralAntillesPrint out a cheat sheet.19:25
derfvim takes about 5 years to really get used to.19:25
GreyFoxxDoes nano do syntax highlighting ?19:26
RST38hkkrusty: for a quick and dirty vs replacement try genie19:26
GreyFoxxViM is my editor of choice, and one of the things I like is the integration with ctags and the syntax highlighting19:26
GreyFoxxand the fact that pretty much any *nix machine already has vi on it:)19:26
derfDon't get me wrong, I love vim.19:27
derfI wouldn't use anything else, personally.19:27
kkrustyso do you mostly use gdb without a frontend?19:27
derfBut it does have a fairly steep learning curve.19:27
GreyFoxxderf I agree, but I switched to only vi 11 years ago and it was hard for a week19:27
GreyFoxxbut after that it became habit19:28
derfSure, you can be _functional_ in a week.19:28
GreyFoxxnow I'm messed up using notepad so I have to install vim for windows :)19:28
RST38hvi sucks19:29
derfBut I've been using vi for 14 years now, and I'm still finding out new things about it.19:29
GreyFoxxdef: true enough, Im always learning new things19:29
GeneralAntillesRST38h, get out of here with that pico/nano nonsense. :P19:30
* RST38h has been using pico for 10 years now19:31
RST38hit is better than vi - it has got Arrows!19:31
derfHahaha.19:31
yigalRST38h: do you program in pico? :)19:32
GreyFoxxThe first time I had to fix a broken system, with no net connection to install another editor and literally 3 floors down in a concrete bunker was the same day I started learning Vi :)19:32
RST38hweird how we have not got a single emacs  fanboy here19:32
RST38hyigal: yes.19:32
derfEmacs is even harder to learn than vi.19:33
pupnik810emacs is crazy19:33
* RST38h uses vi when there is no other chice though19:33
yigalemacs is fine but it's too complicated19:33
yigalfor me19:33
GreyFoxxemacs is an OS, not a editor, heh19:34
yigalemacs is a way of life but then again some say this about vim and they could be right19:34
RST38hI am not gonna believe any editor based on ai programming language - you never know what it is doing with your code19:34
RST38hMay be just counting braces, but may be attempting to breed too...19:35
yigalit has a speach impediment it has a lisp19:35
lcukkkrusty, i use komodo edit in windows - ive got it configured to look like vs, and it feels like it as well.  no debugging but thats not important for me19:38
GeneralAntillesOh, that's fun, HP took down the drivers for my printer. :\19:38
qwerty12ouch19:38
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RST38hGa: that is their polite way of telling you to buy a new printer19:39
GeneralAntillesYeah, thanks. :19:39
RST38hIf not you, who is gonna improve their q3 results?19:39
GeneralAntillesMy mouse is broken again, too.19:40
GeneralAntillesFun day19:40
* RST38h is sitting in a train Moscow->Vilnius btw19:40
RST38hSo this connection is gonna expire any moment =)19:41
GreyFoxxSome sort of19:41
GreyFoxxGPRS or bluetooth to cellphone ?19:41
RST38hgprs on a phone19:42
GreyFoxxahhh19:42
RST38hit is e70 - easier to type on than n81019:42
GreyFoxxheh19:42
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kkrustylcuk: Well the rest dont have debugging either. Also how do you compile if you're on linux?19:43
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kkrusty*not on19:43
RST38h159km, still ticking...19:43
lcukwhat operating system does my n810 run?19:43
GreyFoxxheh19:43
RST38hlcuk: amigaos?19:43
lcukheh, i wish19:43
kkrustylcuk: so you send it there and compile it?19:44
lcuknai mean natively before someone fishes out the amiga emulator19:44
pupnik810hehe19:44
lcukkkrusty, other way round, dev files are maintained directly on the device19:44
pupnik810still needs a frontend19:44
RST38hkkrusty: Have you read maemo sdk documentation?19:44
lcukwhen im out of the office so to speak i use khertans pygtkeditor :)19:44
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lcukbut with ssh i can edit on any machine and thankfully komodo is multi platform so im happy19:45
kkrustyRST38h: I think I have.19:45
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kkrustyRST38h: not completely but what I know is that you can either develop with scratchbox or on the device19:46
RST38hkkrusty: then you must know what debugging options are available?19:46
RST38hyou can develop in sb AND DEBUG  on the device19:46
kkrustyRST38h: Yes I know that. I've been trying to have debugging work on Eclipse+SBox but that doesnt seem to work.19:47
* lcuk doesnt like cross compiling - i would prefer an arm desktop19:47
RST38hyou can develop in sb and debug on an emulator but qemu sucks moose balls in terms of compatibility19:47
RST38hkkrusty: ditch eclipse19:47
kkrustyRST38h: so you need an emulator/device for debugging?19:48
qwerty12lcuk, sbrsh sounds like your sort of thing but you need linux and a shitload of time and patience :/19:48
kkrustyRST38h: thats exactly what I've just decided.19:48
RST38hkkrusty: no there is a third option but it is also sucky19:48
lcukqwerty12, bleugh yer, its just another layer of complexity to an already complex system19:49
GeneralAntilleslcuk, get yourself a beagleboard when they come out.19:49
lcukkkrusty, trust your judgement, put plenty of debug messages in and deal with one problem at a time19:49
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lcukGeneralAntilles, i looked at linuxtag, they are quite spiffy19:49
RST38hcompile for maemo-x86 and debug19:50
derfHey, just be happy you aren't debugging on VxWorks.19:50
RST38hanyways, pico+make+scp do it for me and I am used to debugging with printfs19:50
derfBack when I had to use it, it didn't even have memory protection.19:50
lcukderf, since i started on this device i assumed there were no actual runtime debugging methods available19:51
kkrustyRST38h: maemo-X86 sucks too?19:51
derfOne invalid pointer write and you'd have to reboot the whole board.19:51
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lcukmust be a bitch for the mars rover developers19:51
derfAnd since nothing would actually crash when the original error occurred, it would take 8 hours to debug 20 lines of code.19:52
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GeneralAntilleskeesj, you won a Beagle?19:56
GeneralAntillesSo did flo_lap and Kate Alhola. . . .19:56
pupnik810bbl19:58
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keesjGeneralAntilles: yes20:00
GeneralAntillesHate you. :P20:00
* keesj did get it yesterday20:00
keesjI am happy soldering and building all from source " all so happy "20:01
GeneralAntillesYou gonna get Maemo going on it?20:02
PsykosisWoot - got Milkytracker compiled and running on OS2008. :)20:02
PsykosisNow need to figure out how the heck to make a deb file. lol20:03
keesjI don't think so , there is already a OE based system for it.20:03
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keesjI want to be more bussy with lower level things (like jtag) and hardware20:03
keesjSo I guess I am going with the flow and see20:04
keesj+ there is no touch screen so hildon is not really what I want20:04
GeneralAntillesGood point20:05
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keesjI will see if it make sence to use mamona on it.20:05
keesjlardman was also requested at #beagle for his dsp twists20:06
lardmankeesj: What's that keesj?20:06
lardmanI should lurk on beagle?20:06
lardmanthat I can do20:07
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keesjplease do20:07
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lardmanright, the buffer problems are sorted, now I just have to work out whether my loops & sleeps are on the same order of magnitude on the DSP & ARM20:10
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lcukkeesj, does the beagle graphics card support yuv, is it in need of some graphical bandaging or is it nice and quick20:21
lcuk;)20:21
PsykosisIs there a good tutorial on how to make a deb package somewhere? The page on maemo.org is giving me a 403...20:21
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yigalPsykosis: this is the original it goes into depth http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/20:22
lcukPsykosis, khertan has a maemo program called pypackager20:22
lcukhttp://khertan.net/pypackager/20:22
lcukit includes some good stuff and a link to what yigal just mentioned20:23
PsykosisExcellent - Thank you. :)20:23
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keesjlcuk: I don't know20:26
* flo_lap got it two days ago... and built an image with OE but no time to test it yet20:27
JaffaPsykosis: you might also find http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/ useful20:31
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keesjGeneralAntilles: what would you do with a BeagleBoard?20:35
GeneralAntillesNothing particularly productive20:35
GeneralAntillesMost just play20:35
GeneralAntilless/Most/Mostly/20:35
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Mostly just play20:35
keesjlike maemo :p20:35
GeneralAntillesYeppers20:36
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lcukkeesj, could it be used as a development environment for maemo: ie desktop system with keyboard display and native compilation without scratchbox of binaries for use in maemo?20:37
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keesjlcuk: do you develop under sbox / arm ?20:39
lcukno, i compile natively on 81020:39
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keesjlcuk: I don't think it would make sence no. you might aswell develop on the n810 in that case. even under sbox what happens is cross compilation20:42
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Jaffakeesj: presumably the larger display and keyboard would be the interesting things20:44
forge:)20:44
forgeMaybe he has full screen kb in his 810 ?20:44
lcukkeesj, im only thinking speed and i find the idea of an entirely virtual development process mind boggling.  its just extra layers.  the omap3 is much faster than my 810 and so would give a productivity boost20:44
forgeusb or some other, and then he's using some whacky usb display port :o20:44
lcukforge, no i use ssh to actually work on the files on windows (or any os handy) and when on the road use pygtkeditor on the device20:45
forge:)20:45
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lcukbut now i have started to look at c++ compilation time is rising towards my frustration threshhold and im just thinking of a way out20:45
lcukand a £100 desktop replacement would be feasible20:46
lcukespecially if the same binary could be built and tested on either device20:47
JaffaPresumably, if nothing else, you could use the armel Maemo SDK rootstrap in a chroot on whatever OS runs on the Beagle board20:47
JaffaActually, that'd be very cool.20:47
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lcuki might have to just bite the bullet and get a scratchbox thing setup, but it makes my head spin20:48
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keesjlcuk: as long as you don't write asm I think you should just develop under x86 with all the very nice profiling tools (valgrind)20:49
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keesjand cross-compile , specialy if you don't have to many weird depenencies20:50
lcuki write visual things which need the touchscreen20:50
RST38hI am back!20:50
lcuki cant test and debug on x8620:50
RST38hkeesj: x86 is not the same as armel20:50
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RST38hcant debug lots of stuff there20:51
keesjand profiling is not the same a guessing where performance problems are laying20:51
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keesjI you use hildon I guess that you need to use the sbox.20:53
lardmanhmm TSK_sleep() doesn't appear to return, ever20:53
keesjRST38h: what kind of bugs are you talking about that don't happen on x86 and do on arm?20:54
lcuklardman, thats because its doing what you asked it to - maybe its waiting for another call in a seperate thread/process to wake it up20:54
lardmanlcuk: It should just sleep for x number of clock ticks20:56
lcukhttp://objectmix.com/dsp/301177-tsk_sleep-called-swi-routine-never-returns.html20:56
lcukTSK_sleep cannot be called from a SWI or HWI...20:56
keesjbut I must say that oprofile also looks very good20:58
lardmanlcuk: This is not a sofware interrupt handler20:58
lardmanhmm, this might be the show stopper though "TSK_sleep cannot be called from the program’s main() function."21:02
lardmanWhere can it be called from then I wonder?21:03
lcukanother thread?21:04
lcukanyway, rebooting for andlinux, back soon21:04
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lardmanI'm in another thread already, but calling it from the main() of that thread21:04
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lardmanI wonder if it's related to the clock() fn not working21:07
RST38hkeesj: x86 has different performnce profile, memory latency, it misses omap hw completely21:08
lardmanhmm, /* no CLK objs */ comment in avs_kernelcfg.conf doens't sound too promising21:08
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RST38hclock() (posix) is dependent on the system services21:10
lcukbut if it exists and compiles it shouldnt return duff results surely?21:11
lardmanno idea21:11
lardmanI'll just try a proper busy loop21:12
lardmanfood first though21:12
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lcuklardman, is there a reason why you cannot use CLK_gethtime()   ??  http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru404n/spru404n.pdf  page 70 describes it and talks specifically about 242021:18
lcuk*for when you get back21:18
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lcukjaffa, are you watching now or later21:23
Jaffalcuk: later. At in-laws. Will get off, erm, some sources I can't disclose - but are fully legal. Let's say my PVR.21:23
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lcukbbc iplayer is even better - direct over flash about 10minutes after end of program21:23
lcukno waiting for download and quality is surprisingly high21:24
Jaffalcuk: this is like iPlayer, but from BBC R&D :)21:24
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lcuknice21:24
lardman|cookinglcuk: I'm guessing that clock() hides a call to one of those CLK_ fns21:24
lcukim still keeping my eyes open for a way to get it playing well on my 81021:25
lardman|cookinglcuk: I'll try it out after supper though21:25
lcuklardman, it may well do, enjoy your mael21:25
Jaffalcuk: the iPhone-style hacks might present something which play back well on the N810. Not tried it, tho21:25
lcukmeal21:25
lcukjaffa, maybe - id hope to simply watch the standard flash stream but thats a bit of a pipedream21:26
GeneralAntillesHAVA works nicely.21:26
JaffaGeneralAntilles: is it all Windows PC based, or is it an online service?21:26
qwerty12_N800Jaffa, The iphone one only works in mplayer in black & white >.< according to a post.21:27
Jaffaqwerty12_N800: ah, fair enuf.21:27
GeneralAntillesSetup has to be done on a Windows machine (or vm)21:27
GeneralAntillesbut it has a client just for the tablets.21:27
GeneralAntilleshttp://myhava.com/21:27
GeneralAntillesIt's basically a slingbox21:27
lcukqwerty12_N800, black and white... that rings bells for me and makes me think the yuv is just being decoded incorrectly or intentionally ignoring the chroma components21:27
JaffaOh, FFS. My mother-in-law's put it on in the dining room "to see what happened". After she talked all through last weeks and so I'm waiting until I can watch it in peace. And then she starts talking about a) who's in it, and b) that she'll turn it off when I go in. I'm not going anywhere *near* that TV :)21:28
GeneralAntillesHaha21:29
qwerty12_N800i'm pissed too about iplayer :(, i'd like to watch eastenders w/out resorting to transmission21:29
JaffaGeneralAntilles: so you need your Windows PC to be on?21:29
lcukqwerty12_N800, someone your age should not be watching eastfluffingenders (unless you want to see your mates in it)21:29
GeneralAntillesJust for the first setup out of the box21:29
GeneralAntillesIt's completely independent after that21:29
GeneralAntillesI used vmware. ;)21:29
JaffaSo where's the media come from?21:30
* Jaffa should read more21:30
GeneralAntillesThe cablebox21:30
lcuka settop box21:30
GeneralAntillesIt sits inline between the stb and tv21:30
qwerty12_N800lcuk, can't stop me now :p. been watching for *years*21:30
GeneralAntillesIR blaster to control the stb21:30
JaffaOh, right. I see. Hadn't realised/remembered it was h/w based.21:31
Jaffaqwerty12_N800: I bet you watch Neighbours, too.21:31
JaffaAnyway, TV apparently off. Will risk eating food.21:31
lcukqwerty12_N800, all the good work you have done and such a promising future completely overshadowed by your fascination with dot cotton :P21:31
qwerty12_N800Nah, neighbours never appealed to me.21:31
qwerty12_N800lcuk, i keep a picture under my pillow ^-^ ;p21:32
qwerty12_N800*:P21:32
lcuk*BLEUGH*21:32
* GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you with a stick again.21:33
qwerty12_N800Now that Jim's gone, I may get a chance... :P21:33
keesjI have a deambox dm600 is any chance on streaming to the n810?21:35
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qwerty12_N800keesj, how is it? i've always wanted a dbox2.21:36
keesjI must say it works better then I expected, I did spend one day flashing the thing. and getting it to work but now it works like a charm21:37
keesjthe nice thing is that I don't need a remote control any more as I can use the web interface.21:38
lcukdoes anybody know of a small garage project which is setup with proper debian folders (/src   /debian etc) which i could checkout and examine and use as a template for mine21:38
lcukall i can find are polar opposites: documentation on the layout or massive sprawling packages or incomplete/broken stuff21:39
keesjI need to setup vlc on my machine21:40
keesj(food time)21:40
qwerty12_N800lcuk, There's a few, adv-backlight and if you are feeling like a big challenge, mplayer.21:40
keesjlcuk: I think my first project is still "nice" https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=6221:41
lcukwell.... adv-backlight doesnt put into a /src folder and so im not sure what would happen21:41
lcukthanks keesj ill have a look21:41
keesjbut we all need to use mud :p21:42
lcukalso, adv-backlight (rm_you read this..) has a tiny problem with its installation into sudoers - it just appends to the end, shouldnt it use visudo or whatever to handle locking21:42
keesjso put the source in svn and aks mudders to package21:42
lcukwe do, but if i get my project into proper debian stance i will be better in the longrun21:42
keesjI am still a debian rookie so perhaps not such a good example after all21:43
lcukkeesj, im looking around everywhere21:43
lcukyou have something up and have used svn, you arent that much of a rookie21:44
keesjlcuk: inz helped me the first day's21:44
keesjthis is the "structure" i made https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/home-applets/cosy-bookmarks/?root=cosy-home21:45
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lcukkeesj, im getting a great deal of help already and the more projects i get to look at the better i will be to understand how it all fits together21:46
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lcukthings still elude me, like how do i sort out binary versioning - im used to going to project properties and setting auto increment21:47
qwerty12_N800lcuk, if you don't want to append to sudoers, you can make a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ (we'll call it liqbase.sudoers) and put your sudo lines in there and call update-sudoers from postinst21:48
lcukqwerty12_N800, nice! thank you - i knew there was a proper way to do it.  this little nugget is being stored away21:50
lardman|cookinghmm, #define TSK_sleep(nticks)       (SEM_pend(&TSK_timerSem, nticks))21:51
lardman|cookingI'm not sure of the behaviour when a semaphore doesn't exist21:51
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* lcuk puts his hand up21:52
lcuklardman - i bet it will cause an infinite loop :D21:52
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lardman|cookingprobably just sits there as it never increments21:52
lardman|cooking:)21:52
lardman|cooking#define TSK_time()              KNL_curtime21:53
lardman|cookinglooks more promising, at least for timing things21:53
lcukif the granuality isnt very high you could also do what ive done in the past... ive used household scales to accurately weigh 2pence pieces21:53
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[A2K]hi, it's me again.21:54
[A2K]with more stupid questions :)21:54
lcukhi [a2k], we are here, and we have more stupid answers for you :)21:54
qwerty12_N800hehe21:54
* jott prepares his rubber chicken21:55
[A2K]i tried to use default browser on n810. it is good and very comfortable to use, but is there some way to add firefox plugins to it? adblock, noscript, maybe vimperator?21:55
qwerty12_N800ones that use xul can't be used on the n810 :(21:56
jottadblock exists though.21:56
lcukusing a backdoor hack21:56
jotti had it on chinook but it was quite slow.21:56
qwerty12_N800jott, iirc, that's managed with separate app21:57
lcukit tags itself to the page dom doesnt it21:57
[A2K]:(21:57
Kegetyssome adblock i tried made the whole browser unbearably slow on all pages21:57
[A2K]ok, so, maybe there is some another good browser?21:58
jotthttp://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/ well long time no new posts here21:58
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qwerty12_N800CSS + maybe hosts file works a lot better on the n8*0 than adblock21:58
bohawjeshey, what is the best combo to use pc desktop remotely with nokia tablet?21:59
lcukdepending on the router/intermediate hardware something like proximatron would be good21:59
jottopera 9.5 would be spiffy ;)21:59
qwerty12_N800jott, check the svn, they have some plug-ins they haven't released :)21:59
bohawjesvnc viewer and some vnc server?21:59
jottqwerty12_N800: not released => slow and broken as adblock?! ;)21:59
lardman|cookinglcuk: Looks like the semaphore exists, but I assume nothing posts to it so it's never incremented22:00
qwerty12_N800jott, dunno, haven't tried them ;)22:00
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jottbohawjes: if you connect to a windows host i would prefer rdp, other os like linux/osx vnc is the way to go22:00
[A2K]i don't think that opera 9.5 will be compiled for maemo, they are closedsourse.22:00
bohawjesok, jott. i will try rdp. thanks22:00
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800 ++ CSS and hosts file is the way to do ad-blocking on the tablets.22:01
[A2K]next question. it looks like n810 does not use HSDPA (only UMTS) when connecting using mobile phone (nokia e51). i get only 400-800 kbits per second..22:01
GeneralAntillesIt's DUN limiting.22:01
[A2K]O_o is there some way to remove it?22:02
RST38hwhat is wrong with adblock?22:02
GeneralAntillesEr, "remove it"?. . . .22:02
[A2K]remove this limit22:02
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's slow as all get out.22:02
Jaffa[A2K]: Bluetooth PAN, rather than DUN.22:02
[A2K]Jaffa: nokia phones does not support PAN :(22:02
JaffaReally?!22:02
GeneralAntilles[A2K], it's a limit of the protocol. You can't "remove it".22:02
lcukthen get one that does22:02
[A2K]Jaffa: i don't see PAN profile in my e5122:03
RST38hmotorola z10 should do pan22:03
qwerty12_N800meh, never liked motos :/22:03
[A2K]i just bought e51 today22:04
qwerty12_N800pocket pc phones do pan22:04
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lcuka2k, i thought features and profiles were at the behest of the phone provider, if you have a cheap payg phone the feature you request may simply be disabled22:04
[A2K]and i sold my old wm-based glofiish x800 =\22:04
JaffaSony Ericsson obviously best for non-Smartphones22:04
Jaffalcuk: not so much in the UK/Europe, but definitel in the US22:04
[A2K]lcuk: provider can't diasble bluetooth PAN in phone...22:04
RST38hglofish <-- deserves death22:04
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[A2K]RST38h: yes, they do22:05
lcukmy o2 phone has 3g super quick modem inside but i cant get at it from outside22:05
lcuki always thought it was simply cos its a cheapy £40 layg22:05
lcukpayg22:05
lcuk:D layg phones are painted red22:06
Jaffalcuk: no, O2 don't have an HSPDA network22:06
lcukits got 3g though?22:06
qwerty12_N800yes, they do have umts iirc22:06
[A2K]can n810 connect to inetret by ad-hoc network? i think there is some software to make symbian phone wifi access point..22:07
JaffaYes. OK, admittedly your *account* may not have 3G access enabled, but the phone itself won't have the feature disabled.22:07
GeneralAntilles[A2K], get ready for 2-hour battery life.22:07
Jaffa[A2K]: yes, ad-hoc wlan is supported22:07
* RST38h alway thought umts was 3g voice and hsdpa was 3g data22:07
[A2K]great22:07
RST38hwrong?22:07
GeneralAntillesHSDPA is 3.5G22:07
RST38hoh22:07
JaffaRST38h: what GA said.22:07
GeneralAntillesUMTS is 3G22:07
RST38hok22:08
[A2K]afaik UMTS can transfer data on EDGE speed22:08
RST38his there some special name for 3g voice and data protocols?22:08
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[A2K]RST38h: UMTS :)22:08
qwerty12_N800edge is slower then umts :/22:08
RST38hif umts is data then how is voice called?22:08
JaffaEDGE is 2.75G, GPRS is 2.5G22:08
JaffaRST38h: UMTS22:09
RST38hamps is 2g then?:)22:09
GNUton:)22:09
GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_phone_standards22:09
[A2K]HSCSD is 2G22:10
RST38hga: you are giving this url to somebody with 416x352 screen and a gprs uplink (no edge)22:10
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RST38hrepent!:)22:10
GeneralAntillesThere's, like, 1 image.22:11
qwerty12_N800RST38h, should make for good reading then :p22:11
[A2K]bluetooth PAN support is not enabled in nokia n810 by default. it is developed non-officialy. is it really good?22:12
GeneralAntillesIt works fine22:12
GeneralAntillesIt's just not well supported in the GUI.22:12
* RST38h is rereading amber spyglass as we speak22:12
[A2K]btw, can i install zsh or just normal bash?22:12
RST38hwas found on E: drive by chance22:13
qwerty12_N800cept in Diablo where you may as well use ad-hoc for now22:13
qwerty12_N800(bt-pan)22:13
GeneralAntilles[A2K], nitapps.com for bash.22:13
[A2K]added to bookmarks, thx.22:14
GeneralAntillesRST38h, love that series.22:14
qwerty12_N800Any good? Been watching too much films, a book would be nice. :)22:15
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, fantastic22:15
RST38hyes, theyare very good22:15
GeneralAntillesthe series is easily on my top-ten list. ;)22:15
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qwerty12_N800Thanks, will check it out.22:15
RST38hfilms are just hollow22:15
lcukwell you could fill in the hole in the middle of the dvd22:16
GeneralAntillesFilms are a visual medium.22:16
lcukbut i doubt thats the kind of hollow you mean22:16
GeneralAntilles2001 is a good example of something that really uses the medium.22:16
lcukand it uses the long22:16
RST38hI do not even watch dvds...22:16
* [A2K] looks at list of console stuff and gets shocked22:16
* GeneralAntilles now has to watch the 2001 docking scene again. <_<22:17
lcuk(open the pod bay doors HAL)  -   .                                                                 (==========22:18
[A2K]one more question. is there some alternative to package manager? apt-get/apt-cache works fine and very fast, but default package manager i too slow22:18
lcuk             .            (========== -(im sorry gen, i can't do that)22:18
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[A2K]omg22:21
[A2K]it just deleted all repos22:21
[A2K]O.o22:21
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[A2K]whre does it store sources.list?22:26
[A2K]/etc/apt/sources.list is just blank22:26
[A2K]but it has repos22:26
JaffaDebian & Ubuntu both now use /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ now.22:26
[A2K]oh..22:26
JaffaMaemo the same.22:26
* [A2K] is old-school user :P22:26
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lcukbleugh, im gonna go play fro a bit22:28
GeneralAntillesThe problem with movies is that most filmmakers try to treat them like novels on film.22:29
GeneralAntillesbut film is a visual medium, so that doesn't really work.22:29
[A2K]is there some way to disable light-off?22:31
[A2K]i hate whan i read book and it just switches off lights22:31
[A2K]no, i don't read too slow22:32
[A2K]just learning few programming languages and reading books with lot of source codes.22:32
GeneralAntillesSet the screen timeout insanely long?22:32
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GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/moredimmingoptions/22:33
[A2K]it can be set up to 2 mines (allready done)22:33
[A2K]minutes*22:33
[A2K]and i need good e-mail client. that default has much problems with russian encoding.22:34
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[A2K](do not offer gmail please)22:35
bohawjesdoes anyone here have a nokia tablet with "loose" touchscreen surface?22:35
GeneralAntillesEr, as in, it wiggles around?22:35
GeneralAntillesor it's slightly spongey?22:35
bohawjesi mean that you can feel it moving when tapping etc. and it makes it almost impossible to use with fingers22:36
bohawjesspongey is good word22:36
GeneralAntillesI have 1 N800 like that22:36
GeneralAntillesboth of my 770s are like that22:36
[A2K]ok, i think i got it. "dude, this is linux, if you want something - do it yourself" :)22:36
GeneralAntillesActually, I find the spongey N800 more accurate with fingers.22:36
GeneralAntillesThe wiki is soooooo slooooooow22:37
bohawjesi have this 770, it's not usable with fingers at all22:37
bohawjesi have to use nails if i don't have stylus available22:37
JamieBennettSpongy is all to do with the type of touch screen, its pressure sensitive22:37
Grackle_The 770 has quite a bit of squish, my N800 has barely noticable squish.22:37
GeneralAntillesJamieBennett, not quite.22:38
Grackle_Actually, I cannot detect any squish.22:38
GeneralAntillesOne of my N800s has no squish22:38
GeneralAntillesone has lots of squish22:38
Grackle_Hmm.22:38
bohawjesyes, i thought this is normal, but i once tried another tablet in local nokia store.. it worked hundred times better with fingers and the screen was much more "tight"22:38
Grackle_Does it have a grainier screen, similar to the 770?22:38
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Grackle_Or is the squishiness the only similarity?22:38
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bohawjesmy screen is very spongey/loose in the bottom area of the screen. 1/3 from the top is working pretty nice with fingers and i don't notice any movement there22:39
JamieBennettGeneralAntilles: I was refering to the fact that 'normal' touchscreens (as in glass type screens) use conduction rather than pressure so the pressure ones have some play. I understand that some may be defective and move too much though.22:39
GeneralAntillesGrackle, no, the sponginess is the only similarity with the 770.22:40
GeneralAntillesEither way, Nokia really needs to tighten up everything about their touchscreens.22:40
bohawjesone thing which bothers me is, that the looseness of this screen makes it easy to scratch.22:41
GeneralAntillesThat's what screen protectors are for.22:41
bohawjesyes, wish i had used those before :)22:41
bohawjesvirtual keyboard area is becoming very unsensitive and hard to use now22:42
Kegetyshmm, is there some reason why the maemo browser doesn't support any kind of disk cache?22:42
qwerty12_N800It can be enabled in about:config afaik22:42
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Kegetysit doesn't seem to work even after that22:43
Kegetysabout:cache says it only does memory cache22:43
GeneralAntillesSlow flash write speed and flash life issues, I believe.22:43
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GeneralAntillesEither way, yes, there's a good reason.22:43
* sp3000 finds the memory cache settings in the options ui quite amusing22:44
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Kegetyswell I'd prefer to have the images etc. from sites I visit often to be cached on the disk rather than reloaded every time I close and open the browser again22:44
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sp3000anyway if you worry about flash wear you can always point the cache onto disposable media22:46
Kegetysyeah I'd rather buy a new memory card every now and then than pay the bill to reload all the stuff over and over again22:46
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I updated the MUD wiki page to use the citation plugin, and fixed a URL.22:47
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keesjwas the food good or did you only cook?22:54
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sp3000Kegetys: yeah I don't see anything landing in the disk cache with it enabled, capacity is defaut 50M, parent_directory set to an existing /media/mmc1/browsercache23:00
Kegetyssp3000: yeah it's propably not compiled in at all23:01
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sp3000it can be configured out, yeah23:10
sp3000oh wel23:10
sp3000l23:10
[A2K]i need a good build of wxmaxima with all dependencies. can someone help me?23:10
bohawjesdoes fanoush's mmc speedhack make nokia 770 more stable, or am i wrong?23:11
GeneralAntillesWell, if you combine it with swap, it might.23:12
GeneralAntillesA large part of 770 instability is from memory constraints.23:12
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bohawjesi just though this, because i started to use that hack lately and my device has been much more stable after it23:14
JamieBennettGeneralAntilles: Also the slow processor plays a part23:15
GeneralAntillesJamieBennett, true, but oom situations are front and foremost for stability issues.23:15
lardmandsp restarts also force reboot due to the fb being mapped23:16
JamieBennettGeneralAntilles: Agreed, most of todays software on the Linux side benefit more from mem increases than from CPU ones23:16
lardmanwhile on the n8x0 they go un-noticed23:16
JaffaGeneralAntilles: yeah, ta for fixing that up23:17
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yigal$199 n800 on ebay I'm a happy man, although I still have to wait about a week for it to arrive :)23:32
JamieBennettyigal: have fun!23:32
yigalJamieBennett: thank you!23:33
lardmanaaargh, why don't my shared memory addresses match up!?23:33
ShadowJKWhat is mmc speedhack? :-)23:35
qwerty12_N800Is python-launcher only activated if magic line is #!/usr/bin/env python?23:36
ShadowJKah, google found it23:38
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lardmanright, any thoughts what's wrong with these bits of code?: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m1db6df8323:41
lardmanthe ARM & DSP sides refer to the same shared memory buffer, but for some reason only value pointed to at the start of the buffer can be read on the DSP side23:42
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lcuklardman input_length = (unsigned short *)((unsigned long)shmem+1);23:47
lcukwhat are you attempting to do there23:47
lardmanstatic char shmem[MBUF_LENGTH];23:47
lcukshmem holds the address of the start of the allocated memory block23:47
lardmanis the shared memory region23:47
lardmanyes23:47
lcukshmem+1 is where where in memory23:48
lardmanin SDRAM23:48
lardmanit's shared by the MMU23:49
lcukno, i mean where in memory,  shmem starts at address 0x12341200 and continues for MBUF_LEN bytes.     (0x12341200 + 1)  is just indexing 1 byte into that array23:50
lcukthat looks wrong23:50
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lardmanthat is right, 2048 16bit bytes worth of memory are shared23:50
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lardmanso I'm pointing that variable's address one 16bit byte into that array23:51
lcukahhh dont be sure23:51
lcuki tried this with the blit routine in liqbase23:51
lardmanoh, what's up then?23:52
lcukbut because i had a variable declared as char * no matter what casting i couldnt make it jump over 2 or 4 bytes23:52
lcukall offsets were based on the original char23:52
lardmanah yes, but char is 16bit on the dsp23:52
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lcukso whats the ugly unsigned long casting for?23:53
lardmanI'm not sure quite how the DSP C compiler wants to guess, so I thought I'd be sure23:53
lcukchar *memstart=shmem;             int16 *memstart16 = (int16 *)memstart;         printf("item0=%i",memstart16[0]);     printf("item1=%i",memstart16[1]);23:54
lcukperhaps something like that - at least to check23:54
lcuki ended up using similar in some functions to clarify i was doing as intended memory wise23:55
GeneralAntilleslol http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=199672&postcount=10423:55
lcukits always hairy around casts23:55
lardmanchar *memstart=shmem; sets the value of memstart to the address of shmem23:56
lardman int16 *memstart16 = (int16 *)memstart; then you cast it to a 16bit pointer23:57
lcukyes, doing it all as atomic blocks clarified it in my mind23:59
lcukthat way i dont have to think about operator precidence23:59
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