IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-05-30

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practisevoodoo	anyone got any ideas why iwlist doesnt work all the time	00:08
practisevoodoo	this is in os2008 on an n810	00:09
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AStorm	practisevoodoo: well, cx3110x doesn't support wireless extensions all that well	00:14
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practisevoodoo	what bugs me is that it works some of the time	00:15
AStorm	which part of "doesn't support" confuses you? :-)	00:16
AStorm	it may work	00:16
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GAN8001	We really need a timeline of ITOS releases	00:56
GAN8001	Getting dates on these things seem impossible at the moment.	00:56
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Jaffa	Editing the wiki in microb is painfully slow in the textarea	00:58
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Saviq	Hmm can anyone help with the 'shared folders' missing from my file manager?	00:59
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GAN8001	lol, sleeeep, Jaffa. :P	00:59
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Jaffa	GAN8001: I had an idea for the 100 days plan and wanted to document it	01:00
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Jaffa	GAN800: how did you get your username & timestamp on 100_Days without it being a talk page? Is there a handy macro or something?	01:05
Jaffa	Ah, found it :-)	01:05
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GAN8001	~~~~	01:08
infobot	ARGH!!! STOP IT gan8001!!!	01:08
GAN8001	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GeneralAntilles/Sandbox#Release_History	01:09
GAN8001	I still needs dates	01:09
GAN8001	and I'm missing a bunch of OS2005 releases.	01:10
GAN8001	and the version number on the OS2006 beta release	01:10
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Jaffa	Right. I must sleep instead of fiddling with the wiki articles	01:18
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GAN8001	night again	01:19
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Jaffa	:)	01:19
Jaffa	I'm quite pleased with them, ATM	01:19
GAN8001	I'm going to italicize the comments on the main page	01:19
GAN8001	To offset them from the suggestions.	01:20
Jaffa	Good call	01:20
Jaffa	right, sleep. Hopefully the hotel tomorrow'll have wireless, or it'll be minimal 3G-based spodding for me	01:20
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summatusmentis	\|penguinbait\|: thanks for all the earlier	02:10
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guenther	ah, Maemo Mapper on maemo.org homepage :)	02:13
guenther	That's a really cool app.	02:13
guenther	Granted, it would be much cooler, if I finally get my 810.	02:13
guenther	The 800 lacks the GPS -- which limits my fun to browsing.	02:14
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GAN8001	i-blue 737!	02:14
wazd	Hello there all :)	02:14
GAN8001	The N810's GPS sucks, anyway.	02:14
guenther	heh	02:14
wazd	I need serious help here	02:14
wazd	My N800 just throw internal SD to the black hole :(	02:14
guenther	Maybe I should look into additional hardware.	02:14
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wazd	It became totally invisible neiter windows explorer nor Maemo filemanager	02:15
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Mousey	format time!	02:15
GAN8001	Seriously, i-blue	02:15
GAN8001	They're beautiful pieces of technology.	02:15
wazd	Can't format it, it's invisible! :)	02:16
texel	GAN8001: Holux M-1000 is nice, too. =o)	02:16
GAN8001	Anybody using Garnet? http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/?emc=el&m=104313&l=1&v=db45019cdb	02:16
GAN8001	Holux and i-blue both use MTK	02:16
GAN8001	I kinda prefer the i-blue's build and formfactor, though	02:17
summatusmentis	there's nothing that can be one about the n810's gps is there?	02:17
GAN8001	It'll be much better in Diablo, summatusmentis.	02:17
GAN8001	summatusmentis, http://anidel.blogspot.com/	02:18
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: that's awesome!	02:19
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GAN8001	I believe it should work offline, too.	02:19
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summatusmentis	even better, since that's mostly when I'd be using it	02:20
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wazd	nobody help?(	02:21
summatusmentis	wazd: rebot? what're you doing?	02:23
n800m	robot	02:24
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wazd	Already rebooted	02:24
wazd	I can't do anything, asking for advice :)	02:24
wazd	It's totally invisible	02:24
summatusmentis	what caused it? did it just happen?	02:25
n800m	is the card locked?	02:26
wazd	it's unlocked and it's just happened	02:26
GAN8001	Does dmesg say anything when it's plugged in?	02:27
GAN8001	There's always the chance that it could just be a bad card.	02:27
summatusmentis	sounds like it's internal?	02:27
wazd	yep	02:27
summatusmentis	I suppose it's a bad solder conneciton	02:27
wazd	8GB SDHC	02:27
summatusmentis	connection	02:27
wazd	no, I've swithced them	02:28
wazd	internal slot is alright	02:28
summatusmentis	wait, what?	02:28
GAN8001	wazd	02:28
n800m	does the card show up in the other slot?	02:28
GAN8001	take out the card	02:28
GAN8001	open up xterm	02:28
GAN8001	plug in the card	02:28
GAN8001	wait a second or two	02:28
GAN8001	type dmesg	02:29
wazd	no, card is invisible in both slots	02:29
GAN8001	Tell us what it says.	02:29
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wazd	wooow	02:29
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wazd	hell tons of text :)	02:30
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Jsn0327	is diablo out yet?	02:30
GAN8001	No, Jsn0327.	02:30
GAN8001	Month or two.	02:30
Jsn0327	ok	02:30
wazd	what should I see?)	02:31
wazd	Now I see too much text	02:31
\|penguinbait\|	anyone running 2008OS not 51-3 that can test a command for me?	02:31
GAN8001	Diablo, \|penguinbait\|?	02:31
n800m	yessum	02:31
wazd	hello Penguin :)	02:31
GAN8001	wazd, if you see the card, it'll say something about voltages	02:32
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GAN8001	GVM looks a lot better.	02:33
\|penguinbait\|	looking for lower not higher :)	02:34
n800m	i think mine's older	02:34
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n800m	how do i check	02:34
\|penguinbait\|	control panel	02:34
\|penguinbait\|	about	02:35
n800m	51-3 :/	02:35
wazd	oh hell	02:35
wazd	Can't see internal slot either	02:35
wazd	what the F is going on here(	02:36
\|penguinbait\|	my new cloning script uses lshal, but I think prior to 51-3 it gives different info back	02:36
wazd	ah no	02:37
wazd	it's ok	02:37
wazd	card is still invisible :(	02:37
disq	is the wimax tablet's name n810w or n830?	02:38
GAN8001	N810 WiMAX Edition, disq	02:38
disq	ok	02:38
GAN8001	Abbreviated N810W or N810WE	02:38
disq	i added a comment to the bugzilla gps entry btw	02:38
wazd	Is there any SW way to restore that cards?	02:40
GAN8001	Yeah, saw it, thanks, disq!	02:40
GAN8001	wazd, if the card is shot, call the manufacturer and get it RMAed.	02:40
texel	wazd: have you tried seeing if the card works in a card reader on a different computer?	02:42
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guenther	disq: What bug exactly, btw?	02:42
wazd	texel, I actually haven't got another cardreader :(	02:43
texel	wazd: how about another device that takes SDs?	02:43
disq	guenther: it was for GAN8001	02:44
wazd	no(	02:44
texel	Darn.	02:45
wazd	Why n800 is innapropriate?	02:45
guenther	disq: I know. I'd be interested in the bug number anyway. :)	02:45
* Cymor is back (gone 06:50:31)		02:45
texel	wazd: Not inappropriate -- just want to make sure the SD is okay.	02:45
texel	One way to do so is to try it out in either another computer or another device that can handle SDs and see if they recognize it.	02:45
guenther	May I introduce myself to you: Karsten Bräckelmann, one of the new maemo.org bugmasters. :)	02:45
wazd	Well, I think it's not cause qall n800 slots works fine	02:45
disq	guenther: i don't remember :) oh hi. it was about a comment about agps-ui and how it fixes stuff	02:46
wazd	Oh hell! Very nice to meet you Karsten :)	02:46
texel	guenther: good to meet you. =o)	02:46
disq	guenther: #2878	02:46
guenther	disq: Thanks. I was just about to string search. :)	02:47
guenther	texel, wazd: hi	02:47
disq	browser url history ftw	02:47
guenther	ah, right, that one	02:48
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GAN8001	guenther, the 70-vote GPS one	02:49
GAN8001	high 2000s. :P	02:49
texel	Mm. That's an interesting bug, to say the least.	02:49
GAN8001	Ah, he sent it.	02:49
GAN8001	Nevermind.	02:49
guenther	disq: Thanks for leaving comments like these. Much appreciated and needed.	02:49
AStorm	anyway, we don't have AGPS in Europe... or am I wrong?	02:50
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guenther	GAN8001: Thanks for poking disq to comment on the bug in the first place. ;-)	02:50
texel	AStorm: that would be dependent upon your cell-provider.	02:50
GAN8001	guenther, don't you have a recently-updated bug search. :P	02:50
Anunakin	Hi to all!	02:50
AStorm	texel: hmmhmm	02:50
guenther	Not yet. :)	02:51
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AStorm	they do provide some simple text location tag	02:51
disq	i was just bragging about how it "rocks" in the channel and GAN8001 suggested that i leave a comment.	02:51
GAN8001	I just figured out how to make one that includes bugs with new comments, so I have a "all bugs updated in last 2 days" search	02:51
AStorm	but I don't know if GPS data too	02:51
GAN8001	Very useful	02:51
guenther	Yeah, I read that initial conversation.	02:51
* guenther lurks often		02:51
* GAN8001 hides his marines.		02:52
disq	:)	02:52
GAN8001	http://www.blizzard.co.kr/images/broodwar/units/lurker/cglurkerhigh.jpg	02:53
texel	GAN8001: hm... what exactly do you use for a "relative date" in the Bug Changes field?	02:53
guenther	GAN8001: You mean "changed between -2d and Now"?	02:53
texel	It's not exactly... obvious.	02:53
AStorm	GAN8001: he's got such a nice smile :-)	02:53
guenther	easy one, and really useful	02:54
GAN8001	Only bugs changed between 2d and now	02:54
guenther	-2d	02:54
GAN8001	If you want to include new comments, just don't select anything in "one or more of the following changed"	02:54
GAN8001	I have 2d, guenther.	02:54
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guenther	Well, that's I always used it.	02:54
GAN8001	Works fine.	02:54
* GAN8001 shrugs		02:54
guenther	Never tried a positive int for the first field.	02:54
GAN8001	Doesn't make sense now that I think about it	02:54
GAN8001	but still	02:55
guenther	hah	02:55
guenther	Didn't know that. It really works. Go figure.	02:55
GAN8001	texel, there's a "Give me some help" link at the top.	02:55
GAN8001	It'll enable popups for all the fields	02:55
GAN8001	just for, you know, future reference. ;)	02:55
texel	Heh	02:55
texel	Nice.	02:55
texel	Thanks. =o)	02:55
GAN8001	Oh, guenther, nuke that period here: Give me some help (reloads page.)	02:55
* texel doesn't exactly /like/ bugzilla, but lives with it. =op		02:56
guenther	texel: Use -2d, -2w, -2m and stuff	02:56
guenther	days, weeks, months, use any number	02:56
GAN8001	AStorm, he wants to eat your liver. :P	02:56
guenther	GAN8001: What do you mean?	02:57
* guenther wonders what "nuke that period" means		02:57
GAN8001	On the Advanced Search page	02:57
AStorm	GAN8001: bad for his health ;P	02:57
GAN8001	Oh, kill it with fire. :P	02:57
GAN8001	Make it go away	02:57
GAN8001	Nuke it from orbit	02:57
wazd	dang that's a real bad ending of good day(	02:57
* guenther scatches his head		02:58
guenther	What would you need help with?	02:58
GAN8001	At least it's not a horrible ending to a bad day, wazd.	02:58
wazd	I got my SDHC crashed	02:58
AStorm	wazd: buy SanDisk next time? ;P	02:59
wazd	it's got invisible :(	02:59
texel	wazd: does dmesg show the SDHC as even being seen by the kernel?	02:59
GAN8001	The link does funky js stuff to enable popup (css/js) tooltips for all the search fields.	02:59
AStorm	wazd: reinsert?	02:59
guenther	ah	02:59
guenther	right...	02:59
AStorm	ah, yes, check dmesg after reinserting	02:59
AStorm	to se if the kernel noticed it	02:59
wazd	AStorm, oh hell, why I didn't thought of that before! :P	02:59
guenther	https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi	03:00
GAN8001	But the stupid period in the parenthesis is ugly and should be deleted. ;)	03:00
guenther	Just go back there. :)	03:00
wazd	What rows should I look for?	03:00
wazd	there are tons of them(	03:00
guenther	heh	03:00
guenther	period in paranthesis?	03:00
GAN8001	wazd, ssh in and pastebin it.	03:00
GAN8001	Give me some help (reloads page.)	03:01
GAN8001	The one there.	03:01
AStorm	wazd: something about menelaus setting MMC voltage	03:01
wazd	yep, there is	03:01
* guenther slaps forehead		03:01
AStorm	with high number on left (that is, very recent)	03:01
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wazd	2800 mV	03:02
wazd	that?	03:02
AStorm	yeah, that	03:02
AStorm	so the kernel sees it	03:02
texel	wazd: there should be a line in there that says something to the effect of "waiting for devices to settle before scanning" as well.	03:02
summatusmentis	w00t KDE!	03:02
AStorm	texel: nope	03:02
summatusmentis	this thing amazes me	03:02
AStorm	that's only on startup	03:02
texel	AStorm: Uhh... okay.	03:03
AStorm	wazd: now check if there are /dev/mmcblk1*	03:03
texel	I get that every time I insert a card... O.o	03:03
* texel shrugs		03:03
AStorm	(afaicr it's the external card slot)	03:03
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wazd	wait please I'll reinsert without 2nd SD card	03:04
wazd	for clear results	03:04
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texel	AStorm: okay, I'm a bonehead -- mmcblk drivers don't use the SCSI subsystem. =op	03:05
texel	So it'll never say that. =op	03:05
AStorm	yeah, they don't	03:05
wazd	okay, I have different values	03:07
wazd	3300, 2800	03:07
wazd	3100, 3000	03:07
AStorm	correct	03:07
AStorm	on the same card, or diff ones?	03:08
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wazd	menlaus 1-0072: Setting voltage 'VDCDC3' to 2800 mV	03:08
wazd	I think VDC... is the name?)	03:09
wazd	then on different	03:09
AStorm	yes, it is the name of the wire of mmc controller	03:09
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\|penguinbait\|	can anyone running firmware prior to 51-3 on 800 or 810 test a command for me?	03:12
GAN8001	I can if time is cyclical. :D	03:14
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AStorm	night	03:14
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guenther	Does that explain deja vues?	03:14
texel	guenther: Somehow, I don't think so... =op	03:15
GAN8001	guenther, is there any way to set timezone in bugzilla?	03:17
GAN8001	I'd like not to have to think about the times when using it. . . .	03:18
guenther	IIRC yes, let me check	03:18
GAN8001	Who are the idiots that keep adding software requests to the 2010 agenda? <_<	03:18
guenther	ah, no -- sorry	03:20
guenther	I had itT in mind, where I recently set it.	03:20
GAN8001	Should I open a enhancement request? :P	03:21
guenther	GAN8001: Where are you?	03:21
guenther	No. :-)	03:21
GAN8001	EDT	03:21
guenther	err... -0500 r something?	03:21
GAN8001	-0400 right now	03:21
GAN8001	Daylight savings time	03:21
guenther	right	03:22
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guenther	Wonder if this feature ever has been implemented upstream.	03:23
guenther	Can't recall seeing it in at least 6 different bugzilla servers...	03:23
GAN8001	I was googling it a few days ago	03:23
GAN8001	My guess is "no"	03:24
GAN8001	Which seems odd.	03:24
* guenther nods		03:24
guenther	In that case, would be closed RESOLVED NOTMAEMO. ;)	03:24
guenther	Alas, that GNOME-ism doesn't exist.	03:25
GAN8001	I still want it anyway. :P	03:25
guenther	Did you check bugzilla.org, if this ever has been filed upstream as feature request?	03:25
\|penguinbait\|	lshal -l --show /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_mmci_omap_1_mmc_host_0_mmc_card_rca4660_storage	03:26
GAN8001	Not specifically.	03:26
GAN8001	I read something somehwere	03:26
GAN8001	Don't recall what where	03:26
\|penguinbait\|	I use this command to pull storage information	03:26
* guenther recalls that place		03:26
\|penguinbait\|	would it be different between firmware versions on the same hardware?	03:27
guenther	somewhere is nice to stay for a few days, isn't it?	03:27
GAN8001	Fantasmagastic	03:27
GAN8001	Maemo Bugzilla is +0200, right?	03:27
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GAN8001	Also, b.m.o. == ?	03:28
guenther	+0300 currently ;)	03:28
guenther	b.m.o == bugs.maemo.org	03:28
guenther	At least in this channel. Mozilla got their own IRC network to claim different usage. ;-)	03:29
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guenther	GAN8001: You're never come across that acronym before?	03:31
guenther	Sorry, probably a GNOME-ism. :)	03:31
GAN8001	Probably have, but I've never previously cared what it meant	03:31
guenther	The bugsquad and infrastructure teams tend to use these.	03:32
GAN8001	and it definitely doesn't get used in a maemo context.	03:32
GAN8001	We usually just call it "bugzilla" here.	03:32
guenther	Andre and me sure adopted for internal use, and it turned out most folks just understood it.	03:32
guenther	So I assumed it's the same here. :)	03:32
* GAN8001 is stupid. ;_; ;)		03:33
GAN8001	I mean, I got that it referred to bugzilla, just not what the acronym was for. ;)	03:33
guenther	yeah, using the host names only makes sense, in a closed env	03:33
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* guenther got a FF "bmo" keyword to jump to bugs numbers		03:34
GAN8001	Hehe	03:35
GAN8001	I set one up in OmniWeb a few weeks ago	03:35
guenther	Almost the first bookmark I saved, with bugs.maemo.org a close second.	03:35
guenther	Has been invaluable for GNOME, and I already used bmo a lot.	03:36
GAN8001	Shortcuts are great	03:37
GAN8001	Got one for everything.	03:37
guenther	Especially with %s	03:38
GAN8001	wiki, imdb, itt, bugzilla	03:38
GAN8001	wikim for wiki maemo, now, too	03:38
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rm_you	wait, someone actually uses OmniWeb!?	03:48
GAN8001	Heck yes!	03:49
GAN8001	I've been using OW for a long time	03:49
GAN8001	Fantastic browser. ;)	03:50
rm_you	i was going around looking for commercial web browsers a while back and i stumbled across OmniWeb, and was having trouble imagining anyone paying for a web browser nowadays ^_^	03:50
GAN8001	I only paid $5	03:50
GAN8001	So, meh	03:50
GAN8001	I love the "tab" bar	03:50
GAN8001	and workspaces	03:50
GAN8001	and shortcuts	03:50
GAN8001	resizable text boxes	03:50
rm_you	doesn't firefox or opera have those?	03:50
GAN8001	It's a fun browser	03:51
rm_you	ah, that would be nice	03:51
GAN8001	Opera is more proprietary nonsense	03:51
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rm_you	though i have a firefox plugin that does the resizable textboxezs	03:51
GAN8001	Firefox is slow as shit and ugly as hell on OS X. ;)	03:51
rm_you	yeah	03:51
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GAN8001	Even with FF3 and their "native" widgets it still looks like shit	03:51
rm_you	though 3 is nice, but it the plugins i use don't work with it yet	03:51
GAN8001	rm_you, moved?	03:51
rm_you	hrm	03:51
rm_you	?	03:52
rm_you	moved?	03:52
GAN8001	Or is your shit still everywhere?	03:52
rm_you	ah	03:52
rm_you	I'm mostly home now	03:52
rm_you	not fully set up yet tho	03:52
GAN8001	Get an Extras account yet? :P	03:52
rm_you	nope >_<	03:52
rm_you	I pretty much gave up until they roll out the improved interface for extras promotion	03:52
GAN8001	I netted a few new users yesterday	03:53
GAN8001	then we complained about you for a little while.	03:53
GAN8001	It was fun. :P	03:53
rm_you	lol	03:53
GAN8001	and johnx told me to blame you	03:53
GAN8001	or blame him	03:53
GAN8001	something	03:53
rm_you	haha	03:53
GAN8001	I don't remember	03:53
rm_you	why the 8001?	03:53
GAN8001	so I'm just going to blame you both	03:53
GAN8001	Quicksilver G4 at my parent's house	03:53
rm_you	heh	03:53
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rm_you	so you moved back too?	03:53
GAN8001	I don't feel like getting my proxy up and running again. . . .	03:53
GAN8001	Just for the week	03:54
rm_you	ah	03:54
GAN8001	Going back up for summer semester next week.	03:54
rm_you	I need to get my server set up	03:54
rm_you	and then i can start developing	03:54
Navi	blame everyone	03:54
GAN8001	You would.	03:54
* Navi blames GAN8001		03:54
GAN8001	Think I should open a sister bug, rm_you? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3195 :D	03:55
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GAN8001	Navi, finish sorting wikipages so we can get this move started and stop hanging about in limbo. <_<	03:56
rm_you	yes	03:56
rm_you	i believe i should	03:56
rm_you	i'll do it...	03:57
rm_you	and i'll copy/paste their letter, lol	03:57
GAN8001	Letter?	03:57
\|penguinbait\|	are the repos messed up again?	03:58
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rm_you	err, the stuff they typed	03:58
rm_you	make it look like a form letter :P	03:58
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GAN8001	Seems like it, \|penguinbait\|. Reopening. . . .	04:00
\|penguinbait\|	its so disappointing	04:00
GAN8001	Maybe spoke too soon	04:01
GAN8001	tablets-dev responded	04:01
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\|penguinbait\|	you must be lucky	04:04
\|penguinbait\|	mine is still hosed	04:04
GAN8001	Repos responded, too	04:05
rm_you	GAN8001: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3199	04:08
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GAN8001	rm_you, supposedly there'll be a wikipage with packages, source status, and (maybe) justification at some point.	04:11
rm_you	cool.	04:11
rm_you	want to open another for the sound statusbar applet? :P	04:11
GAN8001	It came up in the last #maemo-meeting	04:12
GAN8001	and there's a QuestionsforNokia page up with some of it	04:12
GAN8001	But somebody needs to dump a list, go through the source status of everything and then poke Nokia to start adding the justifications.	04:12
rm_you	heh	04:13
rm_you	it's depressingly slow going <_<	04:13
GAN8001	Yeah. . . .	04:13
GAN8001	A fairly large amount of community frustration can be attributed to Nokia's glacial movement compared to most open source stuff.	04:16
GAN8001	Vote for the bugs, rm_you.	04:16
GAN8001	Then we can both poke Navi to.	04:17
rm_you	hehe k voted	04:17
rm_you	what about johnx too? :P	04:18
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GAN8001	He's teh sleeps or something	04:18
GAN8001	So,	04:18
* GAN8001 pokes Navi		04:18
GAN8001	Vote on the bugs, Navi.	04:18
rm_you	he should wake up	04:18
GAN8001	rm_you, you see the LinuxTag stuff?	04:18
GAN8001	http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/maemo-brainstorm.html	04:19
GAN8001	https://maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf	04:19
GAN8001	http://www.slideshare.net/qgil/maemo-linuxtag-update	04:19
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GAN8001	http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2008/05/29/maemoorg-track-in-linuxtag/	04:20
rm_you	not yet	04:20
rm_you	will look now	04:20
GAN8001	Well, there you go. ;)	04:20
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unixSnob	Suppose I want to power a 6 volt 2 inch television from the 1980s using a 5V psu.. will that risk damaging anything?	04:27
unixSnob	From what I understand, a power deficit isn't risky	04:27
unixSnob	I know the psu can support more than enough current	04:28
unixSnob	any EE majors?	04:28
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Proteous	CRT TVs can be pretty touchy	04:43
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oilinki	diablo is the wimax version of n810?	04:44
rm_you	i have a similar question if anyone answers that one :P I need to power a small LCD	04:44
rm_you	probably off of batteries	04:44
GAN8001	No, oilinki	04:45
GAN8001	The WiMAX version of the N810 is called "N810 WiMAX Edition"	04:45
GAN8001	Diablo is the next OS2008 release	04:45
GAN8001	/maemo 4.1	04:45
oilinki	GAN8001: thanks for the info. I was just wondering about the a-gps.	04:45
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oilinki	I suppose n810 need to be connected to a phone to be able to use a-gps?	04:47
Proteous	not even then	04:47
GAN8001	oilinki, or wifi	04:47
Proteous	unless that phone can somehow give out the extra data that a-gps needs	04:47
GAN8001	and I think it can be used offline by tapping your location on a map.	04:47
rm_you	what is AGPS?	04:48
Proteous	asisted GPS	04:48
Proteous	assisted	04:48
Proteous	using cell tower location to speed up position lockin	04:48
oilinki	phone can give the 2g/3g cell information and that info can be compared to the location table	04:48
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GAN8001	I believe it'll use IP location positioning from Nokia's server's	04:49
oilinki	but I guess it would work with wlan as well, if the wlan-ap locations are stored in the terminal	04:49
Proteous	oilinki: I'm not sure that there is a standard way to get the data from the phone over bluetooth, although you could probably write a java app that would run on the phone to do that	04:49
GAN8001	I believe the system for the N810 uses the interwebs. ;)	04:49
Proteous	by data, I mean nearby cell tower data	04:49
Proteous	those amazing tubes	04:50
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oilinki	Proteous: let's see what the technology is behind the diablo agps.	04:54
GAN8001	It's IP-based.	04:55
GAN8001	Or click-on-map based.	04:55
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hans-castorp	gruess dich	04:56
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GAN800	Oh, rm_you, I added adv-backlight to Downloads.	05:05
rm_you	?	05:06
GAN800	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/advanced-backlight/	05:07
unixSnob	Does that enable it to be installed using 'apt-get install adv-backlight'?	05:08
GAN800	no.	05:08
GAN800	Downloads != Extras	05:08
user__	hallo	05:08
GAN800	Hello.	05:09
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GAN800	user__, might want to /nick to something else.	05:09
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hans-castorp	ok	05:14
GAN8001	Also, rm_you, did you see this? https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2406&group_id=564&atid=2116	05:15
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angel	hey, i was trying to flash my nokia n810 wit os2008.. i am trying it on ubuntu hardy... i am trying to fix the flasher 3.0.. i dont know the exact thing to put in the path for the flasher 3.0 linux binary.. can someone help?	05:29
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summatusmentis	can you be more specific?	05:30
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angel	well.. i need to do per -pi -e ' ' -i.backup right?	05:31
angel	i dont know wat goes in the ' '	05:31
summatusmentis	umm... I have no idea... I think you mean the flash file, but I don't know	05:32
angel	yup, on the wiki it says location of the flasher2.0/ 3.0 linux binary	05:32
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angel	now i dont know which path it needs, wats given is 's-/proc/bus/usb-/dev/bus/usv\000-;'	05:33
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jaken	hey ppls. is there another gui besides GTK to use with python in maemo?	05:45
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* Cymor is away: afk		07:11
Navi	ew	07:11
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lopz	night	07:37
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herwood	good morning everyone	09:43
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herwood	I'm fighting with a drag and drop -issue here	09:44
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herwood	I always get a segmentation fault when I'm trying to fetch the selection data. Has someone faced this problem?	09:45
herwood	Before I try to fetch the selection data, I have put there something in the drag-data-get -handler.	09:46
herwood	the selection data != null but the segmentation fault comes every time when I try to check that is the selectiondata->data null or not.	09:48
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Jaffa	morning, all	09:59
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Dead_K_n810	Morning !	10:27
starkmjolk	mornin :)	10:30
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Dead_K_n810	huhu ! D-feet ! it seems i ve found a great oss tool !	10:48
Dead_K_n810	https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/d-feet/	10:49
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qwerty12	heh nice :)	10:49
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* Surfer9 Visit http://www.FakeMagazineCover.com (upload pic make mag) - http://www.SillyWebcam.com (play with webcam online) - http://www.Is-A-Jerk.com (insulter/anon email) - http://www.ComedySearchEngine.com (fun) - http://www.BodySwitcher.com (put your face on funny body) - http://www.MedChecker.com (health) - http://www.Canuckster.com (Canada eh) - http://www.Nerdful.com (geeks)		11:03
*** Surfer9 changes topic to "-=[ www.WHAK.com ]=- Make Free/Fun Graphics Online At http://www.ImageGenerator.org =)"		11:03
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*** KotCzarny changes topic to ""		11:03
*** qwerty12 changes topic to "development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://maemo.org \| http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook"		11:03
Dead_K_n810	qwerty12 > i ll port this once i get my tablette	11:03
qwerty12	Great :)	11:04
Dead_K_n810	s/tablette/nit	11:04
qwerty12	I would like to learn a bit more about D-BUS :)	11:04
Dead_K_n810	http://oss.codepoet.no/revelation/screenshots/ <- this one should be good too	11:04
Dead_K_n810	i make a recolt on http://www.pygtk.org//applications.html :)	11:04
qwerty12	Hehe, http://gdick.kldp.net/	11:05
Dead_K_n810	gdick ?	11:06
Dead_K_n810	what is it ?	11:06
Dead_K_n810	i ve found :)	11:06
Dead_K_n810		11:06
Dead_K_n810	Korean-English dictionary client for GNOME	11:06
qwerty12	Some Korean dictionary. Dodgy name though...	11:07
Dead_K_n810	useless for me :)	11:07
qwerty12	For me too :)	11:07
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qwerty12	I like the comedy value of the name :p	11:07
Dead_K_n810	i always try to port app that i use ... so i use it and have a better view of the use to mod it correctly	11:08
Dead_K_n810	salut tmonjalo	11:08
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tmonjalo	Dead_K_n810: salut	11:11
Dead_K_n810	ouch vmware is really slow on windows ...	11:11
Dead_K_n810	:(	11:11
Dead_K_n810	and network don t work :(	11:13
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trickie	howdy	11:51
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user__	Hello, I bought a N810 yesterday but I have connection problems. It's connected to my wifi network. I can't ping it from my desktop unless I am viewing a web page with the browser. Like if before accessing to a web page the network connection was activated and after disactivated	12:00
user__	wlan idle time is set to unlimited	12:00
jjo	are you guys getting 401 replies from repository.maemo.org again?	12:01
jjo	or is it my problem at the moment	12:01
kulve	jjo: I seem to be able to download with browser from e.g.: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0.1/free/w/wget/	12:02
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Dead_K_n810	arg ... scratchbox debhelper < 5	12:18
Dead_K_n810	grrr	12:19
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herwood	I'm still having huge problems with dnd. Can someone help me a bit?	12:22
herwood	or if someone knows a good tutorial, feel free to tell me :)	12:23
jumpula	Dead_K_n810: debhelper < 5?	12:25
jumpula	Dead_K_n810: which version are you using?	12:25
jumpula	debian-etch devkit should provide you with a recent enough debhelper	12:26
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jumpula	anyway. can't stay, hope you get your problem fixed :)	12:26
Dead_K_n810	jumpula > as i'm at work	12:26
Dead_K_n810	i use the vmware appliance sdk	12:27
Dead_K_n810	and it s an old ubuntu	12:27
* qwerty12 gets the latest Garnet. I plan on keeping a copy on my HD and loading it into IDA sometime :/		12:32
Dead_K_n810	ida ?	12:36
qwerty12	Disassembler	12:36
Dead_K_n810	why ?	12:37
* qwerty12 has to admit at this point I don't know anything about disassembling but...		12:37
* qwerty12 hates expiry dates ;)		12:37
Dead_K_n810	lol	12:37
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Robot101	user__: the wlan antenna is only enabled when sending data	12:42
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Robot101	user__: if you run ping or something from the device, it'll keep the wireless activated to receive traffic	12:43
user__	ah, is there a way to prevent that? at least when it's plugged	12:45
qwerty12	look into derf's acmonitor	12:46
user__	qwerty12: me?	12:46
qwerty12	Yeah, it has some "autoping" feature or somesuch	12:46
user__	ok	12:46
qwerty12	Yeah, "The daemon also pings a remote host once a minute while on AC power (N800 version only), which helps ensure the network interface will continue to accept remote connections (e.g., via sshd) after idle periods. If you'd like to change the host that's being pinged, use gconf-editor or gconftool-2 to set /apps/acmonitor/ping_host. Set this to a blank entry to disable this feature. "	12:47
qwerty12	I've got a Os2008 version, 1 sec	12:47
qwerty12	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19258	12:47
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user__	trying	12:48
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rm_you	weird	13:08
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rm_you	i've never had that issue... in fact, i "found" my n800 when I was doing nmap sweeps for another machine... I sshed in thinking it was my server, and it was actually my n800 that I had forgotten about for like a week in a corner :P	13:09
* qwerty12 hates X-Server crashes		13:09
qwerty12	And I was in the process of compiling a little fix to a maemo annoyance I hate ;)	13:10
rm_you	>_>	13:10
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qwerty12	And I have to reflash. Serves me right for replacing diablo components with ones built from chinook source :/	13:21
qwerty12	Oh, wait, no I don't :)	13:21
qwerty12	w00t :)	13:21
rm_you	lol	13:22
qwerty12	Hehe, that didn't work well. I changed the value for when the arrow shows up so you can have more statusbar applets and now, it doesn't show, but so don't the rest of my applets :p	13:24
rm_you	lol	13:24
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rm_you	do you use adv-backlight?	13:24
qwerty12	I usually do but because I've reflashed recently, I'm taking my time getting my old apps back :)	13:24
rm_you	well, that one helps slightly :P	13:25
qwerty12	Hehe, yeah, I plan on reinstalling it soon	13:25
qwerty12	I think I need to :P	13:25
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rm_you	I plan on developing for it soon :P	13:28
rm_you	lol	13:28
* rm_you keeps putting it off		13:28
qwerty12	heh :)	13:29
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admin_	is there any way to enable javascript in the browser on n770?	13:33
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admin_	I coudln't change my routers settings, as button clicking was javascript	13:34
admin_	oh, I got it in Tools	13:35
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Gatestone	This is on CHINOOK-x86: I apt-got hello-world-app. I cun run-standalone it, but how do I get the Application manager to see it.	13:38
Gatestone	?	13:38
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eocanha	Gatestone: I don't know if this hint can be useful, but...	13:48
eocanha	not all the packages are shown in appmanager in "normal mode", only selected ones	13:48
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eocanha	If you want to see them all, you have to put appmanager into "red pill mode" (just search in Google about that)	13:49
eocanha	Moreover, I think that not every deb package is installed from appmanager. It has to belong to a specific package group	13:50
Gatestone	Even dpkg calls hello-world-app an "example for the application installer".	13:50
eocanha	Section: user/games	13:50
eocanha	ah, ok, understood	13:50
Gatestone	What about the "section"?	13:51
eocanha	Then I don't know the cause of your problem	13:51
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eocanha	just check that example isn't from an old SDK	13:51
eocanha	I'd recommend you to download the sources of any other free project for Maemo and compare the two debian/control files	13:52
eocanha	Because the key is just that file, I think	13:53
Gatestone	ok. The red pill mode instruction talk about something, which clearly is not applicable to my sbox + MAEMO 4 SDK	13:55
qwerty12	Why is it not applicable?	13:55
Gatestone	Like Tools/Application catalogue menu, which I don't have	13:55
eocanha	hmmm... you're talking about the SDK...	13:55
Gatestone	I have Settings / Application manager	13:55
Gatestone	And there is no New button that red pill mode talks about	13:56
qwerty12	You can set red pill mode another way, wait a sec	13:56
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eocanha	I've experienced that, after installing a new app in the SDK, it doesn't shows in the menus. Just restart the scratchbox.	13:56
Gatestone	I did that	13:56
eocanha	It'll work fine in the real device. It has better setting change detection.	13:56
Gatestone	I see.	13:57
eocanha	Then I don't know. Maybe the hello-world-app is only meant to be run in red pill mode, I don't know	13:57
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Gatestone	Note that every time I start Application manager it says "operation failed" and show no apps installed, although the SDK as installed by the tutorial at maemo.org comes with a contact list as the (only) app.	14:00
Gatestone	(my third time I use MAEMO or scratchbox, and I don't have the device, so bear with a newbie...=	14:02
herwood	I'm sorry for repeating this, but I'm still looking for help in using drag and drop in maemo. If there's anyone who has used it successfully, please give me a hand.	14:03
mgedmin	Gatestone: does the log say anything?	14:03
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keesj	hi	14:14
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Dead_K_n810	sb sucks too much !!!!!!!	14:16
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mgedmin	hey, what's the policy for updating https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/100Days ?	14:21
mgedmin	can I just stick my idea in the middle, or should I ask for some consensus?	14:22
keesj	:p. we need an action plan	14:22
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keesj	I would say a brainstorm	14:23
keesj	I guess that putting it on the wiki is not such a good idea. we want to disccuss stuff. why not mail it to the developers list and sumarize it later?	14:24
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mgedmin	why the heck do I need to log in to read the announcement at https://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/maemo-brainstorm.html ?	14:25
mgedmin	because it starts with https?	14:25
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andre____	yeah.	14:27
andre____	http:// works	14:27
mgedmin	"Over the next 10 days, people are invited to add their ideas, suggestions and gripes to these two pages, to help set the agenda for maemo.org."	14:27
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mgedmin	me adds	14:31
gomiam	me substracts ;-)	14:32
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* towo pla.		14:33
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Anunakin	Johnx or qwerty12_N800 ? you here?	14:57
Anunakin	?	14:57
* Anunakin I have some new and easy ideas about right and middle click emulation for debian		14:58
Dead_K_n810	does someone have a vmware with scratchbox and python2.5 set ?	14:58
Anunakin	no	14:58
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user__	Hello, I conneted to SSH to my n810, exported DISPLAY to my workstation but graphics apps are still being launched in the n810 display	15:59
user__	is it possible to export X with maemo?	16:00
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RST38h	yawn	16:47
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Anunakin	O:-)	16:54
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johnx	Anunakin, hey	17:15
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trbs	is there a use-guide for the mapdownloader applicaiton somewhere? it does not seem to do anything except display a black screen where the maps suppost to be :(	17:22
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rm_you	johnx: johnx	17:46
johnx	hey	17:47
rm_you	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3199	17:47
rm_you	vote :P	17:47
* johnx votes		17:47
rm_you	oh, and https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3195 for GA	17:47
qwerty12	Give me my money first :P	17:47
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rm_you	lol	17:48
rm_you	qwerty12: vote :P	17:48
qwerty12	Hehe, will do :D	17:48
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WorkingOnWise	johnx: not naggin, just checkin, have you had any time to work on Evolution yet?	17:48
johnx	work on it?	17:48
rm_you	johnx: how goes debian?	17:48
rm_you	back at home now so I can finally check it out again :P	17:48
johnx	rm_you, haven't done anything with it since beta3	17:48
rm_you	ah	17:49
johnx	WorkingOnWise, sorry, what did you want me to do again?	17:49
crashanddie	johnx, we'd love you to ... lots of things...	17:49
johnx	O_o	17:49
* qwerty12 is still waiting for weedfs		17:49
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WorkingOnWise	We checked the resource use and saw that Evolution was reasonable for the N8x0. You said you might chip away at getting it on the IT's	17:50
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johnx	uhm...ah, I said I'd run it on Debian...which I did	17:51
WorkingOnWise	on the IT?	17:51
johnx	yup, runs ok	17:51
johnx	doesn't fit on the screen very well	17:51
WorkingOnWise	cool. any chance of seeing a howto on ITT, or is it just a matter of running a Debian chroot and grabbing the debs?	17:52
johnx	just apt-get install evolution	17:53
johnx	in debian chroot	17:53
WorkingOnWise	I'll get the source and massage the ui so it works better....	17:53
WorkingOnWise	nice. hadnt run a chroot yet...	17:53
rm_you	johnx: you actually mean chroot, or your beta3?	17:53
rm_you	do you run a chroot as well?	17:54
johnx	rm_you, either one of course	17:54
johnx	I don't use chroot but there's no reason it wasn't worth	17:54
WorkingOnWise	isnt the beta3 you speak of xfce?	17:54
WorkingOnWise	as the DE	17:54
johnx	yeah	17:54
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Anunakin	Hi johnx	17:54
rm_you	which one did you test it on?	17:54
johnx	hi	17:54
johnx	rm_you, beta3	17:55
Anunakin	I have little ... tip on emulate right click	17:55
johnx	ok, shoot :)	17:55
WorkingOnWise	johnx: any luck with a2dp on debian? would it be worse than in hildon, or the same? maybe better (please be better :) )	17:56
johnx	a little better, with the latest bluez	17:56
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rm_you	lol, now a2dp I would love to work on	17:56
rm_you	that's still my favorite project	17:56
johnx	it's all in the bluez version though, not something debian does different	17:56
Anunakin	I tring use accessx and xmodmap	17:56
rm_you	woo: * This bug has been confirmed by popular vote. *	17:56
rm_you	just in the last minute or so :P	17:56
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WorkingOnWise	good. I kinda thought it would work itself out with bluez as it matured....	17:57
* rm_you bows to johnz		17:57
rm_you	err... x	17:57
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WorkingOnWise	johnx has graduated to johnz	17:57
johnx	totally skipping y	17:57
RST38h	but there are no letters left!	17:58
WorkingOnWise	yup. Evolution ya know :D	17:58
johnx	rm_you, yeah, linking bugs to vote on IRC works wonders :D	17:58
qwerty12	who is this johnx anyway?	17:58
rm_you	he's reached his peak :/	17:58
johnx	I'll just move on from z to aa	17:58
RST38h	9 8 7 6 5 ... ?	17:58
texel	You could say he's reached an evolutionary dead-end. =op	17:58
rm_you	:P	17:58
WorkingOnWise	nah... johndd next!	17:58
GAN800	andre____, get my memo?	17:59
andre____	hmm? what, where? :)	17:59
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GAN800	/msg memoserv list	17:59
Anunakin	/msg memoserv list	17:59
lcuk	anyone at liinuxtag logged in	17:59
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RST38h	all right, ttg home	18:00
qwerty12	Looks like work on fremantle has already started... https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/gtk+/2.10.12-1~fremantle2/	18:01
qwerty12	And it's said to be "GTK+ evolved"	18:01
qwerty12	Fremantle that is	18:01
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GAN800	one would hope it'd already started. :P	18:01
qwerty12	Hehe, true.	18:01
texel	Hm. GTK+ evolved, eh?	18:02
RST38h	Poor Elephanta, we hardly knew you...	18:02
qwerty12	Yep and thre is a tagged gtk with fremantle on it	18:02
texel	One can only wonder what that could mean.	18:02
qwerty12	I may checkout the fremantle version later	18:02
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qwerty12	Will fremantle be for the current series of IT's or for the n900?	18:03
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GAN800	No telling, qwerty12	18:03
qwerty12	Ah, thanks	18:04
* texel smiles		18:04
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n800m	hey kind of a weird question	18:05
n800m	what eats up more power --- dark pixels or light ones	18:05
texel	Hm. Presumably dark, I would think.	18:05
texel	Because the relaxed state of the liquid crystal is clear.	18:06
Khertan	i think it ll be at least for n810 wimax, so n800 and n810 too	18:06
texel	That being said, the most power draw is caused when you use a crosshatch pattern on the LCD.	18:06
n800m	not to mention the backlight	18:06
rm_you	n800 is supposed to be officially supported for two more revisions, right? or just one?	18:06
texel	(it actually goes for most LCDs)	18:06
n800m	which doesn't care what color pixels are	18:06
forge_	Has nokia said something about supporting n800 :o	18:07
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forge	Like really really said	18:07
johnx	right now n810 and n800 have the same rootfs basically	18:07
rm_you	they had a thing like, "we will support each device for at least two product cycles"	18:08
rm_you	or something like that	18:08
rm_you	i think n800 will go to ITOS2009?	18:08
johnx	if they ship the n810 wimax in october 2008 and drop it with no software updates I would be surprised	18:08
rm_you	I might get a n810 wimax when it comes out	18:08
rm_you	as an upgrade to this	18:08
Khertan	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19 ... please some votes :)	18:08
rm_you	i wonder if they'll do a developer program again	18:09
rm_you	i might actually apply	18:09
texel	n800m: well, I was considering the cost of the backlight as a constant.	18:09
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texel	n800m: in which case the part that matters is the state of each LCD pixel.	18:09
n800m	yeah somehow i was thinking the less backlight the better ://	18:09
n800m	which is true but not covered by pixels abviously	18:10
qwerty12	So, before I waste me time, would anyone play Spear of destiny on their tablets?	18:10
* texel nods		18:10
* n800m feels dumb		18:10
* texel shrugs		18:10
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* qwerty12 leans back		18:10
texel	qwerty12: as in the second original DOS Wolfenstein? Is that even OSS?	18:10
qwerty12	texel, yes, the wolf engine source was released years ago and can play SOD too	18:11
texel	Nicer.	18:11
texel	s/r\././	18:11
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AStorm	n800m: go play Doom instead	18:12
AStorm	oh, wait, that was qwerty12	18:13
texel	Hm... How about a proper port of d2xl?	18:13
n800m	well i would to but i don't have the data files	18:13
n800m	too*	18:13
* qwerty12 doesn't like current doom port		18:13
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AStorm	qwerty12: why? it works very nicely	18:13
AStorm	but that touchscreen part is weak	18:13
qwerty12	I find it odd to control :/	18:14
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AStorm	on n810, it's pure gold when played on keyboard	18:14
qwerty12	texel, No OpenGl. Descent 2 with soft rendering exists though	18:14
n800m	http://ads.penny-arcade.com/delivery/ai.php?filename=rpsd02_728avail.jpg&contenttype=jpeg	18:14
n800m	best ad ever	18:14
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qwerty12	I need to get usb keyboard :/	18:14
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texel	qwerty12: well, that's what I was meant really -- probably should have s/d2xl/descent/ instead.	18:15
texel	Okay, time to get some work done. Less talk, more hack.	18:17
* texel goes back to work		18:17
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lopz	hi	18:18
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qwerty12	Tablets are really dodgy :/. I compiled XaoS the other day for some fractal fun and when matchbox-window-manager is running, it goes really dodgy. I stop it and the fractals work fine :/	18:19
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johnx	your app is prolly trying to resize it's window while matchbox is saying "no"	18:20
texel	qwerty12: have you tried running XaoS inside a straight matchbox on Linux?	18:20
texel	matchbox is pretty draconian to most X apps.	18:20
qwerty12	no :(	18:20
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qwerty12	I'll try in kde sometime	18:20
texel	And sadly, most modern GTK/X apps are broken in terms of window placement and ICCCM.	18:20
qwerty12	Or hopefully, the debian crew already have a XaoS port for ARMEL	18:20
AStorm	yeah, we need sawfish in there with correct plugins	18:20
* texel uses stumpwm and has to fight with stupid Java swing apps that do all kinds of weird junk		18:21
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AStorm	yeah, Swing is evil	18:24
* texel ran Antlrworks yesterday and it consistently crashed stumpwm due to it's X insanity		18:24
GAN800	planet.maemo.org timing out for anybody else?	18:24
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qwerty12	yeh	18:24
texel	p.m.o has had all kinds of weird issues lately.	18:25
texel	Timing out here as well.	18:25
johnx	maybe it's to make us appreciate that it used to be somewhat stable	18:25
GAN800	#3203	18:26
johnx	heh	18:26
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GAN800	Ari's blog is so depressing. . . .	18:27
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GAN800	Why are the idiots STILL adding their stupidity to the software wishlist on the brainstorm?	18:28
johnx	as long as it's a wishlist, who cares?	18:29
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GAN800	It's a waste of time.	18:29
johnx	anyways, it makes people feel better and that is at least the right place	18:29
GAN800	The wishlist shouldn't even be there.	18:29
johnx	it's harmless	18:29
johnx	I didn't even know it existed	18:29
GAN800	They really screwed the whole page up over night. . . .	18:30
johnx	did the page do anything useful to begin with?	18:30
GAN800	read the maemo.org annoucement.	18:30
johnx	ah, I see	18:32
n800m	it says stupid allowed	18:33
texel	Hrm... Is SB2 even usable for development yet?	18:34
qwerty12	Cue RST38h :p	18:34
texel	heh	18:34
mgedmin	texel: yes	18:34
mgedmin	sudo apt-get install maemo-sdk	18:34
mgedmin	it's sb2 based	18:34
texel	Well, I just noticed that entry under "Update developer libraries" and the last time I attempted to use it I'm afraid it blew up in my face. =op	18:35
mgedmin	and it works on my laptop	18:35
texel	Good to hear it's stable now.	18:35
GAN800	n800m, but not IRRELEVANT.	18:35
mgedmin	I don't know about stable	18:35
mgedmin	the website claims it's alpha	18:35
* texel nods		18:35
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GAN800	it's for maemo.org	18:35
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mgedmin	and it needs two sysctl tweaks to work on my kernel (ubuntu hardy)	18:35
GAN800	Which doesn't have anything to do with bundled software.	18:35
mgedmin	and the postinst script PUTS STUFF IN MY /etc/sudoers	18:35
mgedmin	WITHOUT ASKING FOR MY PERMISSION	18:35
mgedmin	that's a violation of the Debian Policy	18:35
mgedmin	I believe	18:36
n800m	is itt.com nokia owned?	18:36
mgedmin	still, it's very close to Just Works	18:36
texel	Whoa.	18:36
texel	Okay, yeah, that sucks horribly.	18:36
mgedmin	(the stuff is: everyone is allowed to run ifup usb0 and ifdown usb0 without a password)	18:36
texel	And is absolutely a violation of the Debian policy.	18:36
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GAN800	No, n800m	18:37
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mgedmin	(it also puts ten lines into /etc/network/interfaces with HARDCODED IP ADDRESSES from the 192.168.2.x net, for usb networking)	18:37
mgedmin	(that would break horribly if my LAN actually used that address range)	18:37
m-c	hello - wondering about the Command Central software that Maemo uses to tie all the VoIP, email, and IM accounts together	18:37
mgedmin	I can see how they're trying to make life easier for the average user	18:37
mgedmin	but there's a reason for the debian policy	18:37
mgedmin	not breaking horribly in unexpected corner cases is also a good idea	18:38
texel	Wow. So... you'd expect that a /developer package/ would have a README with it saying how to do that manually. =op	18:38
mgedmin	hence the alpha status, I guess	18:38
texel	Because, well, /developers/ generally know what they're doing. =op	18:38
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mgedmin	or they should	18:38
mgedmin	heh, qualification test	18:38
texel	Hehehe	18:38
texel	"This has been an IQ test -- you just failed" =op	18:39
mgedmin	"if you're not persistent enough to figure out scratchbox 1 and rootstraps, then we don't want your packages anyway"	18:39
n800m	man 50% of those things on that wiki is website style stuff	18:39
n800m	you can consolidate al that crap without nokia	18:40
n800m	+l	18:40
* texel nods		18:40
texel	Some of the layout things aren't so easily solved though.	18:41
texel	As in CSS and such.	18:41
m-c	anyone else annoyed with the instant messaging on the NIT ? I like getting all my VoIP calls in one central location, but I do not like how it alerts me when someone IM's me "hi there"	18:41
texel	Too bad we can't just say "ditch midgard's search engine and replace with google completely" =op	18:41
n800m	it's really not that importnat tho imho	18:41
* texel nods		18:41
texel	But then, it is a wishlist. =op	18:41
mgedmin	m-c: I'm not annoyed because I don't use it ;-)	18:41
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m-c	I wish there was a way to keep my Google Talk account, but prevent people from contacting me with the Instant Messaging side.	18:42
texel	That being said, the non-underlining of links kinda ticks me a little -- but then, that's one of my pet peeves, anyway.	18:42
texel	m-c: that's a limitation of Google Talk, not the NIT.	18:43
GAN800	n800m, how do you figure?	18:43
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GAN800	We don't have access tp the styles to fix them.	18:43
rm_you	mgedmin: adv-backlight adds a line to /etc/sudoers on the n8x0 >_>	18:43
GAN800	it's a _maemo.org_ brainstorm, and style is most certainly that.	18:43
m-c	texel : but Command Center provides only one status for all enabled accounts.	18:43
mgedmin	a lot of maemo packages are made by people who are not familiar with debian	18:44
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rm_you	I made that one, am familiar with debian, and have never heard of that rule >_>	18:44
rm_you	though I see the point for it	18:44
texel	m-c: oh. I misunderstood -- thought you were using something else.	18:44
* mgedmin once read the debian policy manual from cover to cover, out of interest		18:44
* mgedmin once had oodles of free time		18:44
texel	mgedmin: were you chased by shoggoths for the rest of your days?	18:44
MangoFusion	good read?	18:45
rm_you	it just isn't possible to do it another way. should I, what, ask "are you sure?" in postinst and if they say no, remove the package you just installed?	18:45
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mgedmin	MangoFusion: actually, yes	18:45
rm_you	that makes even less sense :/	18:45
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MangoFusion	im's on an IT are quite annoying i find	18:45
mgedmin	rm_you: I think The Debian Way would have you patch the base package (sudo in this case) to parse all text files under /etc/sudoers.d/, and then have your package just install a new conffile there	18:46
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mgedmin	scripts modifying configuration files are error-prone	18:46
MangoFusion	e.g. takes far too long to open the chat window	18:46
rm_you	<_<	18:46
mgedmin	and may conflict with the sysadmin's wishes	18:46
mgedmin	I don't know how much of that is applicable to the single-user tablets	18:46
texel	mgedmin: pretty applicable, actually.	18:46
rm_you	well, i tried to make my sudoers line VERY specific, and my script is pretty braindead, so i don't see it messing up	18:46
mgedmin	but having a broken /etc/sudoers would require a complete OS reflash to fix	18:47
Khertan	bye	18:47
texel	I recently did a dist-upgrade which broke root for me on my N810 because I had it set to give me root in /etc/sudoers and another package came along and clobbered it.	18:47
johnx	or some real creativity...	18:47
mgedmin	what would happen if I did 'echo BLABLABLA >> /etc/sudoers', and there wasn't enough disk space for the full line?	18:47
rm_you	you can just ssh, no?	18:47
rm_you	ssh root@localhost	18:47
rm_you	done	18:47
texel	rm_you: not on mine. I disabled root logins.	18:47
mgedmin	rm_you: not on mine either	18:47
Khertan	su	18:47
rm_you	texel: how do you ssh in?	18:47
mgedmin	I added a line to /etc/sudoers	18:48
texel	rm_you: I don't.	18:48
rm_you	>_>	18:48
mgedmin	I would be unhappy if a package went and removed it	18:48
rm_you	THAT is way more broken >_>	18:48
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texel	rm_you: Unless I need to, in which case I use ssh key authentication for user.	18:48
rm_you	ah.	18:48
texel	Which means I start ssh manually.	18:48
texel	Rather than having it start on bootup.	18:48
Khertan	have a good week end ...	18:48
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texel	rm_you: not more broken -- more secure.	18:48
* mgedmin loves the ability to just ssh to his tablet at any time		18:48
mgedmin	that's the only reason I have it autoconnect to WLAN	18:48
texel	SSH is a little too insecure at the moment. O.o	18:49
rm_you	security at the cost of usability is lame :/	18:49
texel	rm_you: I don't need ssh for anything unless something screwball is happing on the IT.	18:49
mgedmin	don't know about lame, but it usually loses	18:49
texel	In general usage, nothing requires it for me.	18:49
mgedmin	copying clipboard contents ;)	18:49
rm_you	i use my device from SSH more than I poke at it manually >_>	18:49
texel	Heh	18:49
mgedmin	xsel \| ssh tablet 'xsel -b --display :0'	18:49
texel	But then, I need my device to be a bit more secure than usual.	18:50
texel	It contains data that shouldn't be accessable to anybody but me.	18:50
mgedmin	is it encrypted?	18:50
texel	Yep.	18:50
mgedmin	good	18:50
texel	But encryption doesn't preclude offline attach.	18:50
texel	s/attach/attack/	18:50
infobot	texel meant: But encryption doesn't preclude offline attack.	18:50
rm_you	did OS2008 suffer from the debian ssh key fiasco?	18:50
mgedmin	no	18:50
texel	rm_you: thankfully no.	18:50
mgedmin	iirc	18:50
rm_you	lol	18:50
mgedmin	I want avahi on the tablet	18:50
mgedmin	when I'm in a foreign WLAN, there's no internal DNS server giving a name to my tablet	18:51
n800m	whoa i thought i was dyslexic for a second	18:51
n800m	nm	18:51
mgedmin	I want to just "ssh my-tablet.local"	18:51
mgedmin	without figuring out the IP every time	18:51
mgedmin	where's the wishlist for diablo/fremantle/harmattan?	18:51
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rm_you	that would be nice, yes	18:51
johnx	I thought avahi was on there...	18:51
mgedmin	canola used to depend on it	18:52
johnx	it is, just not cofigured I guess	18:52
mgedmin	I should look at it perhaps	18:52
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johnx	that and dbus-scripts might do what you want	18:52
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gpd	I'm trying to use my Nokia E51 as an HSPDA modem on my Mac via USB. Everything is fine - I have APN, username and Password for my O2 network and use *99# as telephone number - where do I put in the APN on OSX config box!? [this is a long shot!]	18:55
gpd	Of course it works perfectly to the N800!	18:56
GAN800	Try #macosx?	18:56
gpd	yeah - i know - but wrth a shot on here - bright channel :)	18:56
qwerty12	Who else except for GAN800 uses a mac? for that matter, who wants to use one if they can avoid it? :p	18:58
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johnx	qwerty12, it's a perfectly nice *BSD machine :shrugs:	18:59
johnx	better than windows at any rate	18:59
* qwerty12 doesn't use windows		18:59
qwerty12	I'm only joking anyway :)	18:59
qwerty12	It's iPhones that I think are shit	18:59
* johnx doesn't mind those either		19:00
johnx	too closed for my tastes	19:00
johnx	I'd suggest one to non-geek, power users though	19:00
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texel	johnx: I use a MacBook Pro... ...running Linux only. =op	19:01
johnx	see the funny thing is when I had a macbook for work I actually tried linux on it and kinda hated it	19:01
qwerty12	:O	19:02
texel	Mm. Well, the Santa Rosa cores actually perform pretty well now under Ubuntu Hardy.	19:02
johnx	the lack of at least 2 mouse buttons is quite painful when using linux	19:02
qwerty12	You can never hate linux on anything!	19:02
johnx	qwerty12, :P	19:02
texel	johnx: even with two- and three- finger tapping on the synaptics?	19:02
* qwerty12 really should learn to read better, i've repacked the same deb 5 times now :/		19:03
johnx	I prefer hardware buttons	19:03
texel	Mm.	19:03
johnx	guess I'm weird like that	19:03
texel	I can understand that. =o)	19:03
johnx	either way, I actually like osx just fine for a laptop	19:03
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johnx	when I get a new notebook it's gonna be a thinkpad w/ linux or a macbook w/ osx	19:04
texel	Frankly, when using the MBP at my desk, I use a ThinkPad USB keyboard with a trackpoint. =op	19:04
johnx	but having an n800 makes that purchase a lot less urgent :)	19:04
texel	Mm. Actually, last I read, Linux works quite nicely on the X300.	19:04
texel	better than even the T43.	19:04
johnx	yeah, I'm looking hungrily at the plain old X lineup	19:05
texel	If I had the cash, I'd buy one in an instant.	19:05
texel	The $1k SSD is killing it for me, though.	19:05
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rm_you	Yeah, those Lenovo machines are tasty...	19:06
rm_you	Lenovo / IBM	19:06
n800m	i'm on macbook pro, it's pretty sweet hardware	19:06
n800m	haven't had a dvd/cd burned yet that didn't work in months	19:06
rm_you	that's called having a quality DVD burner :P	19:07
johnx	ah, optical disks! how quaint!	19:07
MangoFusion	mb pro here. osx. loving it	19:07
rm_you	I've noted the same in Windoze, using Nero and a highly rated burner :P	19:07
rm_you	not to push windoze >_>	19:07
n800m	i do video work so it's a must	19:07
n800m	i'm in windows right now, on it	19:07
n800m	works well that way too	19:07
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n800m	i ran vmware fusion for awhile but it's to limiting	19:08
rm_you	yeah, the hardware in Macs is always fairly nice	19:08
rm_you	they don't go low-end >_>	19:08
texel	Yeah.	19:08
Navi	OPTICAL DISKS?	19:08
texel	Just wish they wouldn't use such closed hardware, though.	19:08
Navi	Those exist? I thought they were just a myth.	19:08
johnx	yeah, apple does a great job stamping that apple logo on those quanta laptops...	19:08
n800m	techno snobs	19:08
n800m	i'm still amazed by sd cards honestly	19:09
rm_you	If I bought a new laptop, I would have to go with the X series Tablets >_>	19:09
* texel usually always needs an optical disk for some reason.		19:09
johnx	n800m, I know what you mean. micro sd cards make my mind hurt O_o	19:09
n800m	16 gb in the palm of my hand	19:09
rm_you	32 now!	19:09
n800m	first time i got a 8 Gb one i reminisced about 1.44 floppies	19:09
texel	rm_you: Good luck paying for it! =op	19:09
rm_you	lol	19:10
MangoFusion	watch you don't loose it ;)	19:10
texel	That, too.	19:10
n800m	hehe yeah	19:10
rm_you	Southwest Airlines lost one of my bags... with about $3000 of clothes in it >_>	19:10
rm_you	anyway, gonna spend about $1500 replacing my clothes	19:10
n800m	where the hell do you shop for clothes	19:10
texel	Ow.	19:10
rm_you	and the rest on a hard drive upgrade for my server :P	19:10
johnx	rm_you, was that your space suit or your tux?	19:10
Navi	Expensive clothing there.	19:10
n800m	hehe	19:10
texel	rm_you: Do those clothes include a sewn-in wearable?	19:11
rm_you	It's called "almost every shirt and pair of pants I own"	19:11
n800m	space suit	19:11
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johnx	rm_you, ah, sadness :(	19:11
rm_you	and it wasn't a small bag	19:11
n800m	ouch	19:11
Navi	Every shirt and pair of pants I wear don't add up to 3k	19:11
rm_you	johnx, you've seen my duffels :P	19:11
johnx	rm_you, yup...I *&$%ing dragged one from the airport once	19:12
Navi	johnx, timey's traveling the world	19:12
Navi	I told him to break your door down and steal your cheerios	19:12
johnx	Navi, I heard, but I have no cheerios	19:12
* Navi snaps		19:12
rm_you	he has rice! lots of rice! :P	19:13
johnx	he'd have to bring them first then steal them	19:13
Navi	That works	19:13
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texel	johnx: but then, that wouldn't be stealing... =op	19:13
johnx	well he can say it's a gift	19:13
johnx	then take them back	19:13
texel	So maybe if he /gave them/ to you, and then took it... =op	19:13
texel	(not sure why I used italics there O.o)	19:13
johnx	I'll turn a blind eye as long as he leaves a box of frosted flakes	19:14
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Navi	texel, only italic to those that use your IRC client.	19:16
texel	heh	19:16
Navi	or that suppor the /italicness of your slashes/	19:16
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Navi	s/por/port/	19:16
infobot	Navi meant: or that support the /italicness of your slashes/	19:16
texel	Or use the same mental parser. =op	19:16
* GAN800 steals texel's giant nose.		19:17
texel	Oh noes! O.o	19:17
* GAN800 runs away		19:17
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* texel giggles		19:17
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n800m	can you do wildcard search in OS X?	19:21
n800m	like *.avi	19:21
n800m	or is it diferent from win	19:21
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Navi	Try it out :P	19:21
n800m	i don't have os x up atm	19:21
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rm_you	errr, does oSX include locate?	19:22
johnx	n800m, find /Volumes/your-drive -name "foo"	19:22
rm_you	locate -i .avi	19:22
rm_you	:P	19:22
Navi	:P	19:23
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n800m	it's for somebody more noobish than me, the terminal wil confuse her	19:23
n800m	found a 3rd party thingy tho	19:24
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GAN800	Or just use Spotlight	19:38
GAN800	No 3rd party needed. . . .	19:39
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n800mX	i think the wireless reception is better in OS x on the macbok pro than it is in windows	19:41
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n800mX	weird	19:42
n800mX	same hardware	19:42
qwerty12	Can you search maemo-developers? Someone posted boost libs and I can't find the link :/	19:43
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qwerty12	Never mind, figured how to do it	19:47
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Anunakin	Any have gcc-4.x armel packages for maemo OS2008 ?	19:59
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GAN800	n800m, Spotlight.	20:05
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n800m	http://www.devon-technologies.com/products/freeware/ better than spotlight	20:28
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GAN8001	Not	20:29
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GAN8001	Unless you're running on Tiger.	20:29
n800m	leopard	20:29
n800m	you're kinda of a nazi about your opinions aren't you :P	20:30
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GAN8001	I've got a lot of experience to back most of them up. :)	20:31
n800m	well there are needs and needs	20:31
n800m	i doubt anypne's experience encompasses all of those	20:31
n800m	everyone's go some angle	20:31
n800m	+t	20:31
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* johnx has no anglets		20:32
penguinbait	rather be smokin	20:32
penguinbait	he's 15, gees kids these days	20:33
GAN8001	I love this: "Today we have too many channels (ITT, maemo.org...). Maybe have some more focus like: maemo.org for developers and ITT for end users"	20:34
GAN8001	2 channels is too many?	20:34
johnx	yeah	20:34
johnx	we need to slim it down to 2	20:34
RST38h	GAN: Who is this bright mind?	20:36
RST38h	This visionary?	20:36
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GAN8001	RST38h, I think it's an IP address.	20:38
GAN8001	https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/100Days#Focus_developers_and_users_on_the_right_channels	20:38
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GAN8001	Nope, it's someone known as "morphbr".	20:39
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GAN8001	Ugh, theses people fail at mediawiki	20:42
penguinbait	wiki's are like chat rooms, any maroon can type their miguided opinion's	20:42
penguinbait	<------ like me	20:43
GAN8001	penguinbait, I'd rather have your opinions than these jokers. :P	20:43
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GAN8001	Who can I blame for adding the 100Days article without a space in it. . . .	20:44
GAN8001	Quim1	20:45
GAN8001	s/1/!/	20:46
infobot	GAN8001 meant: Quim!	20:46
RST38h	GAN: When I see this document I can't stop thinking of Sturgeon's law	20:46
penguinbait	Sturgeon's Law is the name given to two different adages derived from quotes by science fiction author Theodore Sturgeon. The first is "Nothing is always absolutely so", while the second, and more famous, of these adages is: "Ninety percent of everything is crap."	20:47
RST38h	2nd one.	20:47
penguinbait	of cource I pulled this from wikipedia, so its probably 90% crap :)	20:47
GAN8001	Ha	20:47
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GAN8001	RST38h, make it not suck. :p	20:47
GAN8001	Go on	20:48
GAN8001	I dare yah	20:48
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RST38h	GAN: As soon as I oass the baby to my wife =)	20:48
RST38h	s/oass/pass	20:48
GAN8001	s/oass/toss/ :P	20:49
GAN8001	No tossing babies!	20:49
penguinbait	toss em if you like, just not to me :)	20:50
GAN8001	I wish Reggie hadn't stuck it on the frontpage of itT.	20:51
GAN8001	The result of that? A bunch of stupid hardware and software requests that have zero to do with _maemo.org_	20:52
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penguinbait	http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4791847	20:52
penguinbait	baby drop	20:52
penguinbait	its only 50 feet	20:53
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GAN8001	If anybody is looking hard at a HAVA, let me know and I might be able to set up a demo for you.	20:59
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RST38h	Back	21:12
RST38h	GAN: Can I just give you a list of suggestions?	21:12
* RST38h does not really know where to insert stuff on that wiki page - its signa/noise ratio is a way too high		21:12
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WorkingOnWise	is it safe to say the compare Samsung S5L8900 in the iPhone would eat the N8x0's cpu for lunch? Just trying to get a feel for how well Android would do in the N8x0. I've only seen in on the iPhone, where it is super responsive. Of course, part of that is the full 3d functionality the iPhone has over the N8x0	21:17
GAN8001	RST38h, just hit the discussion page	21:18
GAN8001	I'll parse it out from there.	21:18
RST38h	WOW: a) No. b) Android already works on N8x0	21:18
summatusmentis	You've seen android on the iPhone?	21:19
GAN8001	summatusmentis, you get NOLO and initfs flashed?	21:19
RST38h	GAN: ok	21:19
RST38h	Where do I leave comments in discussion?	21:20
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: I ended up not doing it, because I had already started copying root to sd	21:20
GAN8001	RST38h, login, go to the appropriate page click discussion up top, then click the little + tab to add a new topic.	21:20
GAN8001	summatusmentis, still need to flash initfs and NOLO.	21:21
summatusmentis	why?	21:21
summatusmentis	what benefit does it get me?	21:21
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GAN8001	Your NOLO version is old, your initfs version is for an N800. :P	21:21
summatusmentis	but does it matter that much? like, does an old NOLO hurt anything?	21:22
GAN8001	Not that I KNOW of	21:23
GAN8001	but I can't guarantee it	21:23
RST38h	Oh you have to login	21:24
summatusmentis	GAN8001: hmm, I'll maybe do it this evening	21:25
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: if I flash NOLO and a new initfs, I'm gonna have to find fanoush's initfs again, and re-flash that	21:28
penguinbait	yes summ	21:28
rafl	is there a summary page with all the useful information to upgrade to diablo? known issues, workarounds, etc. I'm kinda too lame to read >60 pages in the thread at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17727	21:29
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summatusmentis	penguinbait: thanks for all your help yesterday, btw	21:30
GAN800	No, rafl	21:31
WorkingOnWise	RST38h: the iPhone and N8x0 cpu's are comparable even tho there is a 200Mhz diff between them? I know Mhz does not = performance, but 200 is a pretty big diff, which is why I was asking. As for working on the N8x0, well, I see that it runs, but that might be a long way from working in the wild :)	21:31
GAN800	Read the thread. ;) You can skip most of the first 30 pages.	21:31
GAN800	WorkingOnWise, iPhone runs at 402MHz	21:31
WorkingOnWise	GAN800 the specs I found said 620	21:32
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GAN800	The CPU is CAPABLE of that, but for battery life reasons it's underclocked (much like the N800 used to be).	21:33
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WorkingOnWise	sneaky ba#@$rds! I saw that 620 in 3 places! So much for truth in advertising huh?	21:34
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rafl	GAN800: have you done it? if so: do you happen to be able to tell me if there's anything else one would need to take care of other than changing the catalogues and upgrading?	21:34
WorkingOnWise	thanks. With that, the N8x0 is easy match for that silly brick	21:34
GAN800	Apple doesn't advertise the CPU frequency.	21:34
GAN800	They don't advertise the specs at all.	21:35
summatusmentis	WorkingOnWise: where'd you see those specs? On the apple website?	21:35
summatusmentis	oh, nvm	21:35
GAN800	Gettinf the password, rafl	21:35
WorkingOnWise	nope, but several other sites do. They must be going on the cpu's capability and not the devices real configuration.	21:35
GAN800	Yes, I'm running Diablo.	21:35
rafl	GAN800: well, that was the easy part, i guess.	21:35
WorkingOnWise	summatusmentis: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdamaster&posted=1&cpu=a8900	21:36
rafl	GAN800: so you didn't do anything except for changing the repos to diablo and upgrade? i've seen people in here talking about modified initfs', but unfortunately i didn't pay too much attention. something like that isn't necessary?	21:37
GAN800	Not really	21:37
qwerty12_N800	initfs modification isn't necessary	21:37
GAN800	Just don't flash the Diablo initfs	21:37
qwerty12_N800	you cant	21:37
GAN800	I have kernel, but not initfs	21:37
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rafl	allright then. thanks.	21:37
qwerty12_N800	Don't flash the kernel though if you are using n810 though.	21:38
rafl	that's not something that'll happen automatically when upgrading via apt, is it?	21:39
qwerty12_N800	no because the initfs stops flash-and-rebooyt	21:39
rafl	ok!	21:40
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qwerty12_N800	but subsequent upgrades using ssu do flash kernel	21:40
rafl	but they don't modify the initfs, do they?	21:40
qwerty12_N800	no	21:41
rafl	so I guess it will be easy to unbrick if anything happens.	21:41
qwerty12_N800	usually initfs would be flashed but it's too big atm	21:41
RST38h	GAN: Done	21:42
RST38h	GAN: https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Talk:100Days#Mostly_Technical_Suggestions	21:42
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n800m	nice	21:45
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GAN800	RST38h, I'll go over it in a bit. Thanks!	21:47
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gnuton	Hi there	21:48
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summatusmentis	has anyone tried getting OpenMoko running on the N8x0 tablets?	21:51
x_madbot	anyone know how to install packages on sb2?	21:52
Navi	install packages?	21:53
x_madbot	Navi: install deb packages inside a maemo rootstrap	21:56
Navi	Never used sb2. apt-get?	21:59
x_madbot	Navi: if I can update the package list with "apt-get update", I should be able to install, don't you? :)	21:59
rafl	i wonder why apt-get update says 'UNAUTHORIZED' for the diablo updates repo after adjusting the uri in the sources list to contain the username and password that works well with my browser and wget…	21:59
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n800m	i just learned an important lesson: hitting things CAN make them work	22:00
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summatusmentis	where do I find the echowb theme package?	22:01
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penguinbait	n800m = The Fonz	22:05
penguinbait	guess I am slow	22:05
penguinbait	<--- = potsy	22:06
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summatusmentis	well, found echowb, does anyone have gnumeric running?	22:07
GAN8001	rafl, apt does the password a certain way, I believe.	22:08
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n800m	jean peer reset me	22:08
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penguinbait	http://www.ericasp.com/UserFiles/Image/Fonz.jpg	22:09
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n800m	hehe	22:10
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rafl	GAN8001: typo, sorry.	22:12
n800m	http://helmer.sfe.se/	22:13
rafl	wow… and i spend hundreds of euros on 19" racks :-)	22:15
GAN8001	rafl, just make sure you have enough room if you're upgrading on the flash.	22:15
rafl	GAN8001: i guess i won't do that given how slow that storage is.	22:18
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GAN8001	I symlinked the cache to mmc1 and just made sure I had about 100MB free.	22:21
GAN8001	The documentation PDFs are what'll kill you.	22:21
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n800m	<mute> my ds pwn'd your n800 again	22:22
n800m	:/	22:22
GAN8001	Get back to me when DS browses YouTube. :p	22:23
rafl	GAN8001: 100mb just for the cache and some temporary space for unpacking or 100mb additional to the downloaded packages?	22:23
GAN8001	It was something like 70MB for the packages.	22:23
GAN8001	Just symlink the cache on one of the cards	22:24
GAN8001	Otherwise it'll just be "yeah, right, good luck with that." :P	22:24
GAN8001	It'd be something like 140MB with cache and packages.	22:25
* GAN800 still hasn't gotten the guts to ty 21-4		22:26
GAN800	s/ty/try/	22:26
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rafl	now what's that?	22:28
GAN800	Latest Diablo image.	22:28
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rafl	oh, there's an image available already?	22:28
GAN800	I'm still on 20-4	22:28
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GAN800	s/image/release/	22:28
term-sig	it's for 800 or 810 ?	22:29
GAN800	Both.	22:29
GAN800	it's SSU	22:29
rafl	i'm instaling what cataloge.tableteer.nokia.com/diablo or whatever it's called has currently.	22:29
rafl	will that be 21-4?	22:29
GAN800	Yes.	22:29
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n800m	penguinbait - on your KDE install, is there QT? does sound work?	22:31
rafl	GAN8001: i'll net you know how it works out.	22:31
summatusmentis	n800m: sound works	22:32
summatusmentis	I don't know about QT	22:32
n800m	are you running it?	22:32
summatusmentis	I installed it last night, yeah	22:32
n800m	i know it's slow, but other than that how do you feel about it?	22:33
n800m	keeping it?	22:33
summatusmentis	meh... it's kinda cool, but the slowness makes it sort of unusable for me	22:34
summatusmentis	I'll keep it for a while, keep playing with it	22:34
rafl	GAN8001: also apt is telling me that it wants to remove almost 900 packages to install 100 new ones and upgrade ~300. is that what's expected?	22:35
n800m	would you consider installing a sound app to see if it's capable?	22:35
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GAN800	Yes, rafl	22:38
GAN800	Mostly l10n stuff	22:38
GAN800	They moved from one l10n per language per app to one per app.	22:38
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nn800n	:/	22:39
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nn800n	summatusmentis would you consider installing a sound app to see if it's capable?	22:39
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summatusmentis	nn800n: what do you mean? what sort of sound app?	22:39
summatusmentis	it makes the kde login noise	22:39
nn800n	not a player, something off kde-apps for music making	22:40
summatusmentis	erm... I'm not sure how much space I have, hold on	22:40
summatusmentis	is it bigger than 300M?	22:41
nn800n	looking for a small one	22:41
nn800n	hm i guess most are compiled for x86 tho	22:42
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GAN8001	RST38h, my initial reaction to your software aggregation website was negative (another problem-causing band-aid), but I like it as a sort of "test-bed" for ideas for the Application manager.	22:45
GAN8001	Do you want to expound on that point a bit more for when I stick it on the main page?	22:45
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nn800n	summatusmentis thanks anyway, none of the apps i'm finding are compiled for ARM	22:49
summatusmentis	nn800n: sure. You could try compiling it for arm	22:49
nn800n	i'm not that good at that stuff	22:50
nn800n	i can't find my own ass once i start tinkering with xterm	22:50
nn800n	:/	22:50
summatusmentis	learn it!	22:50
summatusmentis	it's good for you	22:50
summatusmentis	I'm loving the screen size on the n810, irssi works!	22:51
nn800n	it's good for you if you can afford the time :/	22:53
summatusmentis	well, you just need to stop working :)	22:53
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* GAN8001 is checking his IMs through VNC from the N800.		22:55
nn800n	hehe	22:55
GAN8001	Fun stuff.	22:55
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: why not just run IM on the n800?	22:55
GAN8001	I do	22:55
GAN8001	But it's a different account on the desktop	22:55
summatusmentis	ah.	22:55
GAN8001	and I forgot to set an away message before I went out of town, so everybody's been messaging me up there. ;)	22:56
summatusmentis	lol	22:56
GAN8001	I suppose I could probably set something Jabber-related up to automate it all, but. . . .	22:56
summatusmentis	GAN8001: because of you I ordered the boxwave screen protector... :)	22:57
GAN8001	If only I got a commission. ;)	22:58
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summatusmentis	well, that, and I was tired of using the stylus	22:59
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GAN8001	Yeah, I pretty much never use the stylus anymore	23:00
GAN8001	Maybe if I occasionally get pissed off trying to hit a link	23:01
GAN8001	but 99% of the time it's thumbs/fingers	23:01
summatusmentis	yeah	23:01
summatusmentis	I need to clean my screen before I put the protector on though... it's got finger prints on it :)	23:02
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GAN8001	Hehe	23:03
GAN8001	Damp cloth	23:03
GAN8001	It'll come out fine.	23:03
summatusmentis	:) good	23:03
penguinbait	I just use my shirt	23:04
penguinbait	but I'm a slob	23:04
summatusmentis	that's what I've been doing, but then it builds up against the bevelled edge	23:04
RST38h	Applying boxwave protector to N810 is difficult like hell	23:04
penguinbait	grown the pinky nail out a little, you can get in there :)	23:04
GAN8001	Need to do it in a clean room.	23:05
* RST38h almost got it but a few corners and two side spots did not stick		23:05
RST38h	it is exactly the size of a window in the n810 front panel	23:05
summatusmentis	GAN8001: any idea how to take off the front panel on the N810? is it just the two screws on the back?	23:05
GAN8001	Is the N810's panel removable at all?	23:05
GAN8001	lol	23:06
summatusmentis	oh :)	23:06
penguinbait	Anyone tried playing with this? (Google Gadgets for Linux 0.9.1)	23:07
summatusmentis	not fo linx	23:08
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summatusmentis	linux... I tried it a little bit on linux, but I like my Word 2008 better than Google Doc	23:09
penguinbait	Word 2008	23:09
penguinbait	?	23:09
summatusmentis	yeah... on OS X	23:10
penguinbait	ah	23:10
summatusmentis	sorry, tried it a little bit on OS X	23:10
summatusmentis	not linux	23:10
summatusmentis	I can't talk today	23:10
GAN8001	Looks a lot better than Word on Vista. :p	23:10
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* GAN8001 just uses TextEdit or LaTeX		23:10
penguinbait	pb hates apples	23:10
summatusmentis	I don't know LaTeX	23:10
penguinbait	I like oranges better	23:11
summatusmentis	<3 my MacBook	23:11
GAN8001	<3 citrus fruit	23:11
GAN8001	Florida oranges are the best.	23:11
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GAN8001	I'd kill myself if I had to use a MacBook as a primary machine.	23:11
GAN8001	The palm wrest kills my wrists.	23:12
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sjgadsby	??? Your wrists shouldn't be rested on anything while typing.	23:13
GAN8001	Ugh	23:13
GAN8001	Tire my arms out	23:13
GAN8001	I have wrist rests on all of my keyboards. :P	23:13
sjgadsby	That's bad for your wrists.	23:13
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GAN8001	See: http://legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/setupfeb08.jpg	23:14
GAN8001	Since when?	23:14
GAN8001	I don't have any wrist troubles.	23:14
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summatusmentis	I rest one wrist :)	23:15
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GAN8001	My wrists aren't at an angle if that's what you're thinking, sjgadsby.	23:15
sjgadsby	No, that's not it.	23:15
crashanddie	hmm	23:16
sjgadsby	From what I understand, wrist rests hold in warmth under the wrists and can cause inflammation of the tendons, etc.	23:17
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GAN8001	Interesting	23:18
sjgadsby	If I recall correctly, open foam rests are less problematic than closed foam or gel.	23:18
GAN8001	I don't experience any wrist troubles, and not having it sounds more immediately painful than having it. :P	23:19
penguinbait	remember the first apple	23:19
GAN8001	Hi, milhouse.	23:19
penguinbait	http://docweb.cns.ufl.edu/update/u030504a/u030504a1.gif	23:19
milhouse	hi gan8001	23:20
sjgadsby	I used to have wrist troubles.	23:20
milhouse	or should is ay General Antilles :)	23:20
GAN8001	So did I, then I switched to Dvorak and added a wrist rest. :P	23:20
milhouse	s/is/i/	23:20
infobot	milhouse meant: or should i ay General Antilles :)	23:20
milhouse	oh arse	23:20
nn800n	anyone know if you can customize the keybindings in FBReader?	23:21
* GAN8001 is all incognito. :P		23:21
sjgadsby	I use ergonomic, Dvorak keyboards now. And I don't MUD>	23:21
GAN8001	milhouse, you get your shirt?	23:21
milhouse	oh yes i did - i must thank timeless for that	23:21
GAN8001	nn800n, it's in prefs	23:21
GAN8001	Yeah, I was wearing mine the other day	23:21
GAN8001	hot swag. :D	23:21
milhouse	haven't had an oppurtunity to wear it yet - summer lasted about 2 days in the UK!	23:21
GAN8001	Hehe	23:21
nn800n	i don't think the prefs one do what i want	23:21
GAN8001	Let's see . . . . it's 92°F out.	23:22
GAN8001	urgh	23:22
nn800n	wanted to replace the keys for scrolling pages from the -/+ to something else	23:22
GAN8001	nn800n, it does everything	23:22
GAN8001	rebinds everything	23:22
milhouse	rain... rain... more rain	23:22
GAN8001	orientation-specific bindings, too.	23:22
milhouse	had flooding last night in parts of the country	23:22
GAN8001	Fun	23:22
milhouse	no doubt we've got water shortages as well	23:22
GAN8001	We're droughting it up over here.	23:22
GAN8001	Getting ready for the fires. :\	23:23
milhouse	:(	23:23
nn800n	i don't think so GAN8001	23:23
milhouse	two posts from ari in two days - i don't think i can cope... too much communication!!	23:23
GAN8001	http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/gsfc/earth/pictures/modis/floridafires052501.jpg http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/images/florida-fires012501.jpg	23:23
GAN8001	Fires are fun	23:23
GAN8001	milhouse, he's depressingly disconnected, isn't he?	23:23
GAN8001	nn800n, then look harder. ;)	23:24
GAN8001	It's there, trust me.	23:24
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* GAN8001 has a completely custom key setup from the prefs in FBReader.		23:24
Navi	mmm	23:24
GAN8001	We had a fire last summer	23:24
GAN8001	Was up in northern Florida	23:25
milhouse	i've just read the ubuntu post - he's possibly right about UI's and how open source struggle to produce anything amazing, but it's a bit rich coming from someone at Nokia	23:25
GAN8001	flames came 350 miles south	23:25
Navi	ga is an fbfreak	23:25
GAN8001	s/flames/smoke/	23:25
infobot	GAN8001 meant: smoke came 350 miles south	23:25
GAN8001	Zero visibility from the smoke	23:25
GAN8001	crazy stuff.	23:25
milhouse	to clarify that last comment: "anything amazing in terms of UIs (compared with Apple etc.) on mobiles"	23:25
GAN8001	Navi, I <3 FBReader. :P	23:25
GAN8001	I remember installing it on the 770 way back when and having my moth drop open.	23:26
Navi	s/amazing/ridiculously flashy/	23:26
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GAN8001	s/moth/mouth/	23:26
infobot	GAN8001 meant: I remember installing it on the 770 way back when and having my mouth drop open.	23:26
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GAN8001	I almost killed myself trying to post from an iPhone yesterday	23:27
GAN8001	People who say it's faster than MicroB don't have a clue.	23:27
Navi	entranced by the "oooohhhh shiny"?	23:27
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GAN8001	milhouse, did you see?: https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/100Days https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/2010_Agenda	23:27
nn800n	GAN8001 - i don't see it	23:28
milhouse	GAN - reading the latest post now... yeah, he does seem pretty disconnected... he's banging on about open source and how bad closed source development is... wtf, doesn't he realise his own devices contain too much closed source code and for no good reason? :(	23:28
milhouse	just catching up :)	23:29
GAN8001	Be nice if we could swap him out with Quim. <_<	23:29
GAN8001	nn800n, open up Preferences, go to the Keys tab.	23:29
nn800n	yeah i'm there	23:29
GAN8001	Tap the "Action for key" field	23:29
GAN8001	press the key you want	23:29
GAN8001	change the action	23:29
milhouse	i think Ari is the detached big picture guy, whereas Quim is more in touch - I suppose you need both	23:30
nn800n	oh sweetness	23:30
nn800n	thanks	23:30
GAN8001	I just wish Ari weren't so detached. :\	23:30
GAN8001	From reality, that is.	23:30
rafl	GAN8001: http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/a-pleasant-surprise/ says do flash-and-reboot afterwards. is that something i want to do?	23:30
milhouse	Gan: I wonder if he is as detached as he makes out... pretty remarkable if he is	23:30
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GAN8001	initfs will keep it from doing it, rafl.	23:31
GAN8001	You on N800 or N810?	23:31
rafl	810	23:31
GAN8001	rafl, then don't bother.	23:31
GAN8001	Kernel is mostly just IPv6 and some WiMAX stuff	23:31
rafl	in fact ipv6 would be pretty cool	23:32
GAN8001	milhouse, CLOSED is for Nokia QA to set after the product with the fix is shipped.	23:32
GAN8001	rafl, did you substitute rx34 for rx44?	23:32
milhouse	GAN: reading the comments to the "ubuntu" post... is daniels no longer at nokia?	23:32
GAN8001	Good question	23:33
GAN8001	I was looking at his site	23:33
GAN8001	Seems like it, but dunno.	23:33
GAN8001	Gutsy comment.	23:33
milhouse	Can't imagine he'd be saying that if he were still there - he always struck me as someone who wouldn't publicly criticise the product or colleagues...	23:33
rafl	GAN8001: yo	23:33
crashanddie	w00t	23:33
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crashanddie	Managed to get my algorithm working for finding prime numbers between 2 and 100M	23:34
milhouse	GAN: re CLOSED, thanks.	23:34
milhouse	Hopefully they'll follow up and close the bugs rather than leave them open	23:34
GAN8001	rafl, N810 owners have reported non-bootable tablets with the Diablo kernel (requiring reflashing the kernel)	23:34
GAN8001	You could try it, not hard to recover from, but there's not much need	23:35
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GAN8001	Just delete the initfs image and it'll only flash the kernel.	23:35
GAN8001	milhouse, they've been pretty good at closing the resolved bugs in the past	23:35
GAN8001	But getting the UNCONFIRMED/NEW/ASSIGNED bugs RESOLVED is a little harder.	23:35
milhouse	Now that Andre seems to be on the case I hope the situation will improve	23:36
milhouse	He's doing a pretty good job so far	23:36
GAN8001	I hit about 2-dozen that were floating around from all the way back to 2006 and andre's been hitting a lot more.	23:36
cpt_nemo	Hi.	23:36
cpt_nemo	I have a problem with my N810. When it is turned on it starts booting and shows the white screen with NOKIA. The blue progress bar grows from the left all the way to the right. Then nothing happens for a while, the display is garbled for a moment and the device reboots.	23:36
cpt_nemo	Does anyone know what is wrong here? The device worked fine this morning and I hadn't during the day. What can I do to get it working again?	23:36
GAN8001	Yeah, andre___ and karsten are my new heros. :D	23:36
milhouse	I'll go through all my bugs (comment or reporter) and review them once Diablo drops and bump them if there's no change, or close 'em	23:37
GAN8001	cpt_nemo, watchdog is killing it.	23:37
GAN8001	Reflash will fix it.	23:37
milhouse	sorry, ask ask for them to be closed by Nokia QA :)	23:37
cpt_nemo	hadn't _used_ it I meant.	23:37
cpt_nemo	GAN8001: I suspected something like that.	23:37
Cptnodegard	ffs nickalert -___-	23:37
GAN8001	Haha, Cptnodegard Cptnodegard Cptnodegard. :P	23:37
GAN8001	You just can't win, can you? :D	23:37
GAN8001	milhouse, I was chatting with Karsten/guenther about the finally getting the guided submission form in place.	23:38
cpt_nemo	How well does it charge the battery while it is stuck in this reboot loop?	23:38
GAN8001	Maybe the stupid "REPRODUCIBILITY: (always/sometimes/once) always" will finally go away.	23:38
rafl	GAN8001: you're saying that n810 owners have had problems with the diablo kernel but you also say that i should delete the initfs. that'd mean that i'd be running the diablo kernel with the chinook initfs.	23:39
rafl	GAN8001: i can't make sense out of that.	23:39
jukey	cpt_nemo: is there enough energy left in the batteries?	23:39
milhouse	heh yeah... and does it still add the browser details?	23:39
GAN8001	rafl, that's what I'm doing.	23:39
cpt_nemo	I'm asking because the battery is empty and the manuals say to only reflash once the battery is fully charged.	23:39
GAN8001	Diablo really isn't a large change over Chinook.	23:39
milhouse	what's the point of adding my desktop browser details when i'm posting about a bug in my tablet??	23:39
cpt_nemo	jukey: How much is "enough"?	23:39
rafl	GAN8001: so is rm /usr/share/osso/images/initfs.jffs2 what i should do before doing flash-and-reboot?	23:39
GAN8001	milhouse, who knows.	23:39
GAN8001	Right, rafl.	23:40
rafl	GAN8001: so the n810 users have had problems with the initfs, not the kernel?	23:40
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GAN8001	Nobody can flash the initfs that I know of, rafl.	23:40
GAN8001	It's too big.	23:41
GAN8001	N810 users seem to have trouble with the kernel	23:41
rafl	ok then. i'll delete it and flash the kernel. right?	23:41
GAN8001	N800 users don't.	23:41
GAN8001	Right.	23:41
rafl	ok. thanks!	23:41
GAN8001	It wont let you flash either with the initfs there.	23:41
jukey	cpt_nemo: not sure but yesterday i had the same problem and after using the power adapter there where no problems	23:41
GAN8001	So you gotta delete it to get flash-and-reboot to do it's thing.	23:41
cpt_nemo	jukey: So you reflashed while the power adapter was connected?	23:42
milhouse	i must say the Android demos are looking pretty slick	23:42
jukey	cpt_nemo: no	23:43
rafl	GAN8001: ok, i think i fucked it up.	23:44
Navi	android demos look _okay_	23:44
rafl	GAN8001: at least it seems to reboot in a loop	23:44
Navi	more flair than functionality	23:44
GAN8001	Flash the kernel from the Chinook image.	23:44
jukey	cpt_nemo: i thougth the software is broken but it only was not enough power to boot the device, it sounds like your decription	23:45
milhouse	well, they're looking better in beta than maemo after 3 releases let's put it that way - touchscreen looks to be quite sensitive, web page scrolling looks responsive, generally quite well integrated...	23:45
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GAN8001	rafl ./flasher-3.0 -F <51-3 FIASCO image> --flash-only=kernel -R	23:45
cpt_nemo	jukey: Ah, but the same happens on mine when it is connected to the power adapter.	23:45
GAN8001	milhouse, you wouldn't happen to have a crazy-stupid memory for dates and or version numbers relating to old releases of ITOS, would you?	23:45
milhouse	GAN: though obviously I'd never dream of trying to compare Maemo with a phone... :)	23:45
rafl	GAN8001: FIASCO image?	23:46
milhouse	GAN: Probably - I have them all and typically downloaded on the day of release... which version?	23:46
GAN8001	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GeneralAntilles/Sandbox	23:46
GAN8001	That needs filing out.	23:46
GAN8001	Particularly OS2005	23:46
GAN8001	rafl, the .bin from tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php	23:47
rafl	GAN8001: Desktop/RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin?	23:47
GAN8001	Yes, that, rafl.	23:47
* Cymor is back (gone 16:36:17)		23:47
jukey	cpt_nemo: okay, then i don't had an other idea than to reflash the tablet but sombody with more experience maybe would hav a better ides	23:47
jukey	idea	23:47
cpt_nemo	jukey: Thanks.	23:47
RST38h	Fear-mongering hacks at The Daily Mail have been caught mistaking footage from a popular video game series as proof of al-Qaeda's "terrifying vision" for a nuclear attack on Washington.	23:48
milhouse	2.2005.45 is missing - I appear to have downloaded that on 21 Nov 2005	23:48
GAN8001	Build number?	23:48
milhouse	SU-18_2.2005.45_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin	23:48
GAN8001	Call it -1. ;)	23:49
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milhouse	3.2005.51-13 I downloaded on 31 Dec 2005 at 20:44 (I obviously didn't celebrate New Years Eve that year...!)	23:49
sjgadsby	Is there a way of browsing profiles on maemo.org?	23:49
rafl	GAN8001: hrm. now it displays the nokia logo for a while and shuts down.	23:49
milhouse	rafl: if you have any memory cards installed, remove them before booting (sometimes helps)	23:50
rafl	i just have the internal card installed right now	23:50
milhouse	5.2006.13-7 I have a download date of 23 Apr 2006 - is that right?	23:50
milhouse	the wiki says Feb 2006	23:51
GAN8001	sjgadsby, I always go http://maemo.org/profile/view/qgil.html and just change the url.	23:51
GAN8001	milhouse, most of the dates are complete fabrications. ;)	23:51
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sjgadsby	Yeah, that's what I've resorted to as well, GAN8001.	23:51
milhouse	:)	23:51
GAN8001	sjgadsby, bug X-Fade about it when he gets back from LinuxTag	23:52
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GAN8001	He'll either have a hot profile page for you to use or put it on his TODO	23:52
sjgadsby	Okay, thanks.	23:52
nikosapi	does it make sense that the latest OS 2008 doesn't come with python?	23:52
GAN8001	nikosapi, yes.	23:53
nikosapi	oh	23:53
nikosapi	iirc the original firmware had python, could that be?	23:53
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GAN8001	No, nikosapi.	23:54
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GAN8001	Something you installed pulled it in.	23:54
Navi	not everyone needs python. You can always install it yourself.	23:55
nikosapi	ah cool	23:55
nikosapi	thanks	23:55
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