IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-05-28

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simboss	guys, I am trying to setup my n800 with os2008 for development in python, but I can't install pluthon; I get this message "application packages missing: mount-full (>=2.12p+maemo2)"	00:03
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simboss	any ideas?	00:03
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RST38h	Ultimate goth restaurant: http://www.zik.com.ua/gallery/full/2008-05-26-grob.jpg	00:06
RST38h	simboss: it is missing a package called mount-full	00:06
summatusmentis	w00t!!! My n810 just came!!!	00:06
RST38h	You need to find and install this package	00:06
summatusmentis	these stylii seem sort of flimsy	00:07
GAN8001	summatusmentis, I hardly use mine these days, just stick to the fingers. :P	00:08
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qwerty12_N800	RST38h, Nah, it's there but it's versioned wrong. I did long hax to sort it out :/	00:08
simboss	rst38H: isn't a bit strange that it does not get downloaded by default being a dependency?	00:09
summatusmentis	GAN8001: yeah... but... the screen is so... pretty!	00:09
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GAN8001	summatusmentis, I recommend a boxwave anti-glare protector to reduce smudging. ;)	00:10
summatusmentis	oh? ok, how much do those go for?	00:10
GAN8001	$12 USD	00:10
summatusmentis	eek	00:10
GAN8001	They really improve outdoor usability, too.	00:10
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GAN8001	summatusmentis, it's worth it.	00:11
summatusmentis	how do I modify the sources list?	00:11
GAN8001	They really don't scratch	00:12
GAN8001	So it's a life-of-the-device protector.	00:12
* practisevoodoo applauds summatusmentis		00:12
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practisevoodoo	it took me at least 30 minutes before i was doing that	00:12
summatusmentis	practisevoodoo: it won't let me install skype	00:12
practisevoodoo	should allready be on there	00:12
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GAN8001	No, just the installer.	00:13
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GAN8001	summatusmentis, enable Extras.	00:13
summatusmentis	GAN8001: how?	00:13
GAN8001	Application manager: Menu -> Tools -> Application Catalogs...: maemo Extras -> Edit -> Uncheck Disabled	00:13
practisevoodoo	menu -> settings -> application manager	00:14
Tama^2	.	00:15
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RST38h	qwerty: umgh	00:20
RST38h	anyway. sleep time	00:20
pupnik	bonne nuit	00:20
kimrhh	anyone tried building an external kernel module for the N810 ?	00:20
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qwerty12_N800	RST38h, night	00:21
qwerty12_N800	kimrhh, yes and have done so successfuly (not now though, away from comp)	00:22
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elb	for those near a Big Lots, the Big Lots near me has a 4000 mAh "Digital Concepts" portable power lithium ion battery pack for $10.00 with a zillion power adapter tips -- and it will output 5V	00:23
elb	it doesn't have a Nokia tip, but I'm looking into that :-)	00:23
kimrhh	qwerty12_N800: great	00:24
kimrhh	qwerty12_N800: i'm trying to follow the Kbuild documentation, and the how-to on kernel building from maemo.org	00:24
qwerty12_N800	I would say, don't make a new target	00:25
qwerty12_N800	use chinook_armel	00:25
summatusmentis	wee!	00:26
kimrhh	qwerty12_N800: having set up a ARMEL kernel target inside scratchbox, if I issued "make -C /path/to/kernel -M=`pwd` ARCH=arm CROSSCOMPILE=arm-linux-" it still builds a module which is not the right arch according to modinfo	00:26
summatusmentis	installing canola , even though I'm probably not gonna use this for media :)	00:26
kimrhh	qwerty12_N800: aha	00:26
GAN8001	summatusmentis, why in the world not?	00:27
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: I've got an iPod	00:28
GAN8001	It makes a pretty awesome video machine.	00:28
GAN8001	Bleh	00:28
summatusmentis	oh, that's fair	00:28
qwerty12_N800	What I do is that I make a symlink to the kernel source from wherever it's called from indt'sthe make so I all I have to do is run make	00:28
GAN8001	summatusmentis, http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org	00:28
kimrhh	qwerty12_N800: you created your own Makefile?	00:29
kimrhh	qwerty12_N800: oh sorry, didn't see the last msg	00:29
qwerty12_N800	sorry for being unclear, i'm talking off memory + i'm tired :)	00:30
* Jaffa bingles another GAN8001 plug :-)		00:30
kimrhh	qwerty12_N800: i'm not exactly following that last one :)	00:30
* Jaffa wonders what "interesting" things will be announced from Nokia/maemo at LinuxTag		00:30
kimrhh	qwerty12_N800: you make a symlink to a Makefile in the kernel dir?	00:30
GAN8001	Jaffa, my checks still haven't come yet. >:\| :P	00:31
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GAN8001	The NITs will be Nokia's first Windows Mobile devices. :D	00:31
Jaffa	GAN8001: Unfortunately - no spare cash, got a parking ticket today cos I stupidly forgot to display my season ticket at the train station. Very very pissed off.	00:31
GAN8001	How much?	00:32
Jaffa	25ukp ($50) if paid within 14 days. I've emailed saying my season ticket fell off my windscreen cos I didn't put it up properly and asked to be let off.	00:32
Jaffa	We'll see how bureaucratic they are. Probably: lots.	00:32
GAN8001	Yeesh	00:33
GAN8001	Quite a ticket	00:33
GAN8001	Parking tickets are only about $17 here. . . .	00:33
KotCzarny	jaffa, but do they track when it was bought?	00:33
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Jaffa	KotCzarny: I bought my season ticket on 01/04/2008 - runs for 3 months so expires 30/06/2008	00:34
KotCzarny	it has your name or something?	00:34
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Jaffa	KotCzarny: yeah - they should have records that I've got a season ticket.	00:34
Jaffa	But the offence is "not clearly displaying a valid ticket"	00:34
ReKlipz	I just recieved my n810. I'm wondering, out of the box, how do I use the GPS?	00:35
KotCzarny	O.o	00:35
KotCzarny	and how much is 'not having valid ticket' ?	00:35
GAN8001	ReKlipz, open up "Map" or install Maemo Mapper	00:35
GAN8001	Or you can try the "GPS Location" in Control panel if you just want lat/long.	00:36
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ReKlipz	i tired the gps location, but it just shows searching all the time	00:36
GAN8001	First fix is the hardest.	00:37
ReKlipz	and the "Map" app just sits there at the gps display	00:37
GAN8001	Make sure you have clear line-of-site to the sky and aren't covering the antenna.	00:37
\|\|cw	ReKlipz: go outside where it can get a clear view of the satellites	00:37
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ReKlipz	\|\|cw, that will speed it up?	00:38
\|\|cw	should, yes	00:38
Jaykie	you may never get gps fix inside a building	00:38
\|\|cw	yeah, walking back inside might lose the fix again	00:39
ReKlipz	ok, well, it is freezing outside, but i stood out there for a bit, earler, and nada	00:39
\|\|cw	40 seconds isn't uncommon	00:39
GAN8001	It's an AGPS that currently lacks the "A".	00:39
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summatusmentis	it's telling me that it's missing libhildonfm2 and libhildonmime0	00:42
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simboss	guys this mount-full missing dependency is killing me	00:42
simboss	is even blocking me from installing pythond-dev	00:42
GAN8001	How are you installing, simboss?	00:44
GAN8001	summatusmentis, what is?	00:44
simboss	gan8001: I just tried using the application manager	00:44
simboss	I can seed the python-dev listed	00:44
simboss	but it is not installable	00:44
simboss	due to tht missing dependency	00:44
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simboss	as well as many others	00:45
simboss	packages	00:45
simboss	which are in the same situation	00:45
simboss	like maemo-pc-connectivity	00:45
GAN8001	I've never heard of "mount-full", simboss, and google and gronmayer return nothing.	00:46
GAN8001	Sounds like something's borked.	00:46
simboss	exact :-(	00:46
GAN8001	summatusmentis, try this .install: http://gronmayer.com/it/dl.php?id=123	00:46
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simboss	gan8001: any ideas on how to fix hat?	00:49
GAN8001	Reflash?	00:49
GAN8001	Not a clue.	00:49
simboss	I feared that :-(	00:50
simboss	will give it a try though :-(	00:50
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ReKlipz	well, i still didnt get anything outside for like 5 minutes, but it's completely overcast. the maps app showed two of the bars with little numbers under them, dont know what that means though...	01:02
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GAN800	2 sats	01:03
GAN800	But, seriously, the first fix is the worst.	01:03
ReKlipz	i'll wait till tomorrow then, it's way too cold to be outside for more than 5 mins in a tshirt. thanks for the infos though	01:04
ReKlipz	another question, can I use this as a phone on say, the verizon network?	01:04
GAN8001	It's not a cellphone	01:05
GAN8001	You could either use wifi or bluetooth tethering to do VoIP, though.	01:05
ReKlipz	that's what i thought	01:06
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: what do I do w/ the .install?	01:14
GAN800	Open it in MicroB, it'll asd the repository that contains those dependencies.	01:15
GAN800	s/asd/add/	01:15
infobot	GAN800 meant: Open it in MicroB, it'll add the repository that contains those dependencies.	01:15
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ReKlipz	I'm looking to develop an app that will run on the n810, basically, the app is the only thing that needs to be running, I don't need anything else but the hardware. I was thinking about ditching "maemo" as a whole ( the window manager and all ), and developing my own app that will run on what would be "X". Is this the way to do it, or should I consider keeping maemo and developing just an app for it?	01:20
Mousey	why get rid of the baby with the bathwater?	01:22
Mousey	your app is available to a wider audience and there's less work for you to do to maintain the package[s] if you leave the underlying distro in place.	01:23
Mousey	otherwise you're just making work for yourself. i wonder what your concerns about having the distro underneath are	01:23
GAN800	I don't get all the people dumping everything for one program. Why not expand your userbase by not throwing away maemo? <_<	01:24
Mousey	there's nothing wrong with ditching hildon and matchbox and the overlying Xclients to reap the resources, but yea, it severly limits who'll be able to [or want to] use the app	01:25
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: I'm getting an "Operation failed"	01:28
GAN8001	Sometimes happens when you try and do too much stuff at once	01:29
GAN8001	or do nothing at all	01:29
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GAN8001	Chinook's application manager is pretty buggy	01:29
GAN8001	You can usually ignore that banner.	01:29
GAN8001	(Diablo's is much, much better ;))	01:29
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ReKlipz	hmm, well.. I guess, the app is kindof one off. It's for a project at our local zoo, who is using it for genetics research in Madagascar. Basically, it will be a device that the users will input data on + GPS, and when it comes in range of the proper wlan, it will automatically backup the "reports", and be ready to go out in the field again.	01:41
ReKlipz	basically, there is really no need for the window manager, as there should only ever be one app running at a time.	01:41
ReKlipz	mameo	01:41
ReKlipz	...	01:41
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: the application manager is still telling me I'm missing those two libraries to install skype	01:45
fearphage	are there definite dates on the n810 wimax?	01:46
lopz	re	01:46
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zap	Anybody knows if N810 supports WPA/PSK with AES encryption? I can connect to my AP only if just TKIP is used	01:47
GAN800	Did you refresh?	01:48
zap	refresh what?	01:49
GAN800	Not you, zap.	01:49
zap	ah, sorry ;)	01:49
GAN800	No, fearphage.	01:49
GAN800	It's largely dependent on Sprint at this point.	01:49
summatusmentis	GAN8001: yeah, still telling me I'm missing libhildonfm2 and libhildonmime0	01:50
fearphage	GAN800: sprint is the only wimax provider? that is unfortunate. i was planning on dropping sprint in november	01:50
ReKlipz	so, where do you all suggest I start with development then?	01:51
fearphage	maybe i should read more about wimax. in my work and home area, sprint reception is garbage. is wimax based on cell tower reception?	01:51
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GAN800	No, fearphage.	01:57
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GAN800	WiMAX is separate.	01:57
GAN800	summatusmentis, how are you installing (and what) have you tried apt-getting the dependencies.	01:58
fearphage	thank heavens	01:58
GAN800	There are other wimax operators, but Sprints the only major one in the US and the one providing Xohm with the N810W.	01:59
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summatusmentis	GAN800: I'm trying to install skype, via the application manager	02:00
ReKlipz	wikipedia has a pretty good wimax entry if you're interested, fearphage	02:00
summatusmentis	also GAN800, what was the name of the screen protector?	02:01
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GAN8001	Boxwave anti-glare	02:07
GAN8001	http://www.boxwave.com/products/cleartouch/cleartouch-screen-protector-nokia-n810_3045.htm	02:08
GAN8001	summatusmentis, install easyroot	02:08
GAN8001	~easyroot	02:08
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com	02:08
GAN8001	and try apt-getting the dependencies from xterm	02:08
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ReKlipz	If I wanted to revert my n810 to the original maemo OS that it came with, how would I do that? Is there a rom available somwhere on maemo.org that I can flash to do this?	02:13
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GAN8001	tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php	02:13
GAN8001	and	02:13
GAN8001	tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php	02:13
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ReKlipz	GAN800 and GAN8001, same person?	02:14
GAN8001	GAN800's (variously) one of two N800s and two 770, and GAN8001 is the G4 at my parent's house (GeneralAntilles is my primary).	02:15
GAN8001	s/770/770s/	02:16
infobot	GAN8001 meant: GAN800's (variously) one of two N800s and two 770s, and GAN8001 is the G4 at my parent's house (GeneralAntilles is my primary).	02:16
ReKlipz	hmm, mmk	02:16
ReKlipz	now, one more question, how do I actually flash these binaries?	02:16
ReKlipz	nevermind... :(	02:18
summatusmentis	GAN8001: they're both installed, it looks like it's needing newer versions, are there 'testing' feeds?	02:21
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GAN8001	summatusmentis, hrm, maybe a Diablo something or other?	02:23
GAN8001	Which version does it depend on?	02:23
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ReKlipz	so, let me get this straight. We develop dpkg packages using the scratchbox+sdk environment, and then we install the packages on the actual device using dpkg? is there any way to terminal into the device?	02:24
summatusmentis	it's looking for 1.9.49 and 1.10.1 respectively	02:24
GAN8001	ssh, ReKlipz.	02:24
GAN8001	It's basically Debian.	02:24
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GAN8001	and they're .debs, not "dpkg packages"	02:25
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ReKlipz	so then, hildon is a package?	02:26
GAN8001	Hildon is the GUI/API	02:26
ReKlipz	and to remove it, i can remove the package	02:26
GAN8001	Hildon libraries can be packaged, though, yes.	02:26
GAN8001	summatusmentis, hrm, you haven't flashed your device to the latest firmware yet, have you?	02:27
GAN8001	Open up Control panel, go to about and tell me the version number.	02:27
summatusmentis	GAN8001: no, I didn't know I was supposed :)	02:27
GAN8001	Well, it MAY be up to date	02:27
GAN8001	Nokia is USUALLY pretty good about that	02:28
GAN8001	But maybe not	02:28
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GAN8001	and I'm recalling Skype being stupidly picky about that.	02:28
summatusmentis	1.2007.42-19	02:28
* GAN8001 uses Gizmo.		02:28
GAN8001	Yeah, that's the problem	02:28
ReKlipz	what's the default root password...	02:28
GAN8001	Sorry about the wild goose chase. :\	02:28
GAN8001	rootme, ReKlipz, but root isn't enabled by default	02:28
GAN8001	You'll need to install easyroot	02:28
GAN8001	~easyroot	02:28
infobot	i guess easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com	02:28
GAN8001	Then just type 'root'	02:29
GAN8001	summatusmentis, you on Linux?	02:29
summatusmentis	OS X	02:29
GAN8001	(Hey, me too! :D) OK, first go here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php and download the latest firmware (ends in 51-3).	02:30
GAN8001	Then go here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php and download flasher-2.0 for OS X.	02:30
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ReKlipz	so, there is no way to become root without easyroot?	02:31
GAN8001	Well, you could just use ssh	02:31
GAN8001	ssh root@localhost	02:31
ReKlipz	is ssh installed by default though?	02:32
GAN8001	or you can flash the device into R&D mode	02:32
GAN8001	No, but it's in Extras.	02:32
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GAN8001	Just enabled Extras and install it.	02:32
ReKlipz	R&D mode, research and develop?	02:32
GAN8001	Right.	02:32
ReKlipz	hmm	02:32
ReKlipz	chance of bricking the thing?	02:32
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GAN8001	Slim to none	02:32
GAN8001	You'll want ssh, anyway	02:32
ReKlipz	would hope not	02:32
GAN8001	Unless you've already nuked Matchbox?	02:32
ReKlipz	dont think so, matchbox?	02:33
GAN8001	Window manager	02:33
GAN8001	Just open up Application manager	02:33
GAN8001	Tap the menu -> Tools -> Application Catalogs...: maemo Extras -> Edit: Uncheck Disabled	02:33
GAN8001	Let it refresh the repos	02:33
GAN8001	then install OpenSSH-server	02:34
ReKlipz	ahh, ok	02:34
ReKlipz	what all does r&d mode enable...	02:34
GAN8001	(I wish Nokia would just ship Extras enabled :\)	02:34
GAN8001	Well, mostly, it disables the lock on root access and turns off the delay on the power button for starting up	02:35
GAN8001	Other things, too, but those are the important ones.	02:35
GAN8001	You don't need it	02:35
GAN8001	Installing one of the half dozen or so packages to disable the lock in software is less work.	02:35
GAN8001	Or bypass it (in the case of ssh).	02:35
ReKlipz	so, r&d mode is a hardware thing then? or purely software?	02:35
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: those sites are broken	02:35
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GAN8001	The second one should be http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php anyway	02:36
GAN8001	The server isn't responding. <_<	02:36
GAN8001	Stupid Nokia	02:36
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beford	is there any way to check if the GPS if working, even if I'm not on a country with maps for the map application?	02:37
GAN8001	Open up Control panel, tap GPS location	02:37
GAN8001	Or install Maemo Mapper	02:38
beford	'GPS location details' rigt?	02:38
beford	right*	02:38
GAN8001	Whatever it's called in your localization	02:39
GAN8001	It has a little satellite image.	02:39
beford	I cilck on Refresh, an icon appears on the tray, and it stays searching	02:39
GAN8001	Make sure you're outside	02:39
GAN8001	summatusmentis, Nokia's servers are weird at the moment. :\	02:41
GAN8001	Either you can download their updater for Windows if you have access to a Windows machine (plays nicer with their akamai caching network)	02:41
GAN8001	Or give me about an hour to pull the firmware from my machine at college.	02:41
summatusmentis	GAN8001: I won't have access to a Windows machine for that long, linux won't work will it?	02:42
summatusmentis	I've got a VM	02:42
GAN8001	VM will work	02:42
GAN8001	Go to Nokia's support site for the N810 and download their update tool.	02:42
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GAN8001	Linux uses the same system as OS X.	02:43
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dick-richardson	I do I stop my n810 from automounting the removable mini sd card on boot?	02:49
wolfspirit	ok this is very nerve racking.. I can't get any roms to work on vgba on my nokia n800 using os2008.. it gets to the first screen but never continues on (example, golden sun shows the nintendo logo but never progresses any further) any ideas?	02:49
GAN8001	Keep the card door open, dick-richardson?	02:51
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wolfspirit	anyone?	02:55
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GAN8001	summatusmentis, I'm pulling down the firmware right now. If you don't manage it with Windows, I'll have it ready for you in about an hour.	03:00
summatusmentis	GAN8001: I'm working on summer of code simlutaneously, I'd appreiate just using yours	03:02
GAN8001	It's an N800 image, so you'll have to do a little tap dancing to get it to flash, but it'll work.	03:02
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: what sort of tap dancing?	03:06
wolfspirit	ok vgba says it's unable to load the .sta file when loading any of my games.. I don't have an sta file.. that looks like a special format for vgba to load save states	03:06
GAN8001	The FIASCO image has to be extracted and each part needs to be flashed individually.	03:07
summatusmentis	heh, ok...	03:07
GAN8001	Simple to do, but more work than just flasher-2.0 -F <FIASCO image> -f -R ;)	03:07
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GAN8001	Hrm, what happened to the Misdirected product in Bugzilla?	03:12
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* GAN8001 sighs.		03:16
GAN8001	We need somebody in the Western hemisphere working on this stuff	03:16
GAN8001	Dem Euros go to bed too early. . . .	03:16
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GAN8001	Ah, Quim's on it.	03:21
GAN8001	summatusmentis, 40-ish minutes . . . Comcast is being stupid.	03:24
summatusmentis	GAN8001: no worries	03:25
* GAN8001 is gonna maintain a mirror of this stuff on my non-shitty connection in the future.		03:26
GAN8001	summatusmentis, I've tried to help at least 3 other people update their new tablets over the past two months . . . tablets-dev has been down or generally unresponsive every time. <_<	03:27
summatusmentis	:-/ that's annoying	03:27
summatusmentis	I appreciate it	03:27
GAN8001	Yessir. :D	03:27
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yllus	hey guys. Anyone running PyPlucker? I wish I could get it working on my 770.	03:41
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GAN8001	summatusmentis, 5 minutes.	04:00
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: ok, thanks :)	04:00
\|penguinbait\|	whats up with the repos?	04:00
GAN8001	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3194	04:01
\|penguinbait\|	I could care less about the stupid bug	04:02
\|penguinbait\|	this crap is getting old	04:02
\|penguinbait\|	ARGH!!!!!!!!	04:02
GAN8001	\|penguinbait\|, well, it's where you're going to get status updates. :\	04:02
GAN8001	So, you want to know what's up, but you don't want the answer?	04:02
\|penguinbait\|	I assume the status update will come when I can use it again	04:03
GAN8001	Then why ask what's up if you know you wont get an answer? :P	04:03
\|penguinbait\|	I thought someone might actually know something	04:03
GAN8001	Yeah, the bug.	04:05
GAN8001	We know Quim knows about it.	04:05
GAN8001	That's as much usefulness as I can give you, no need to snap at me. ;)	04:06
\|penguinbait\|	Not aware that I did	04:06
GAN8001	[9:02pm] <\|penguinbait\|> I could care less about the stupid bug	04:07
GAN8001	Evidently I misinterpreted your meaning. My apologies.	04:07
\|penguinbait\|	Its just a fact	04:07
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GAN8001	It's Benson!	04:07
GAN8001	(XChat or irssi?)	04:07
\|penguinbait\|	Telling people to file bug requests for a server being down is stupid at best	04:08
Benson	irssi	04:08
GAN8001	Good choice. ;)	04:08
GAN8001	\|penguinbait\|, it'd be nice to have a red phone lying about somewhere.	04:08
Benson	I'm in trouble...	04:08
Benson	I was messing with initfs	04:08
GAN8001	But bugzilla is a fairly effective way to get as many eyes on it as possible as quickly as possible.	04:08
Benson	On the day the server happens to go down	04:09
GAN8001	lol	04:09
\|penguinbait\|	you can just reflash the original initfs Benson	04:09
GAN8001	Give me a minute or two, Benson.	04:09
Benson	And found out I don't have the original image anywhere	04:09
Benson	:(	04:09
GAN8001	I'm mirroring the FIASCO image for summatusmentis.	04:09
\|penguinbait\|	you can unback from flash, cant you	04:09
GAN8001	I'll pull the initfs for you.	04:09
GAN8001	Just md5ing it to make sure it didn't get screwed up.	04:09
Benson	Thanks!	04:10
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Benson	\|penguinbait\|: You mean retrieve the current flash contents?	04:11
GAN8001	MD5 looks good . . . Unpacking. . .	04:12
GAN8001	http://thor.homeunix.org/initfs.jffs2.zip for Benson	04:13
\|penguinbait\|	I mean you can use the flash tool and unpack the initfs from the flash image	04:13
GAN8001	http://thor.homeunix.org/flasher-2.0.zip for summatusmentis	04:13
\|penguinbait\|	the RX image not flash on the system	04:13
GAN8001	Benson, MD5 (/Library/WebServer/Documents/initfs.jffs2) = dea5e55cf693f77ee982f3efe9462336	04:14
Benson	Downloading...	04:14
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Benson	Got it! Thanks.	04:16
GAN8001	Sure	04:16
GAN8001	Good timing. ;)	04:16
Benson	\|penguinbait\|: Yes, but I don't have the image. I downloaded with a liveCD here on my Windows machine, and I didn't save it to harddrive.	04:17
GAN8001	By the bye, Benson, Benson is already registered, but it hasn't been used in almost two years.	04:21
GAN8001	(Assuming it wasn't you) You'll need to talk to a staffer about having it dropped and re-registered.	04:22
Benson	I couldn't get /msg nickserv <anything> to give any output.	04:22
Benson	Which probably means I'm doing something wrong. (And it definitely wasn't me.)	04:22
GAN8001	It'll show up in another tab	04:22
GAN8001	Switch tabs with alt-#	04:22
WorkingOnWise	does anyone here use Debian on their N800?	04:23
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Benson	WorkingOnWise: I do, a little	04:23
WorkingOnWise	is there a good on screen keyboard for it? one that pops up as neede like in the default ui?	04:24
GAN8001	press center-dpad	04:24
GAN8001	It uses the matchbox keyboard	04:24
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WorkingOnWise	I havent actually put it on yet. I ran KDE and have troubles with the on screen keyboard there. It's a bit cumbersom. Was wondering (hoping) if the debial setup was a little more touchscreen friendly?	04:26
Benson	OK, so that's alt-#, where # is the tab number, not where # is shift+3...	04:27
GAN8001	Haha	04:27
GAN8001	Yessir.	04:27
Benson	Now it does something :o	04:27
GAN8001	Decent introduction, Benson: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=186393	04:29
GAN8001	Also, get it into a screen session ASAP	04:30
Benson	That looks like an introduction to... Nokia's server being down?	04:31
GAN8001	Ugh	04:31
GAN8001	The clipboard is really slow on this machine	04:32
GAN8001	http://linuxreviews.org/software/irc/irssi/	04:32
GAN8001	That's the one.	04:32
Benson	ATM I'm running on a liveCD, for flashing. (Which, BTW, worked beautifully) So it wouldn't be horribly helpful to put it in screen.	04:32
GAN8001	Ha	04:32
Benson	I'll do that though, on the tablet and/or cygwin.	04:32
GAN8001	OK then	04:32
GAN8001	Windows?	04:33
GAN8001	Gross.	04:33
Benson	Need it for Mathcad...	04:33
GAN8001	Best plan is to find yourself a VPS to stick it on.	04:33
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Benson	Well, my cygwin box is pretty reliable, and always on except when I need to flash (at school).	04:35
Benson	I think I'll probably leave it on there, and ssh with the tablet.	04:35
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GAN8001	You may also look into irssi-proxying	04:37
GAN8001	It'll let you use XChat on the tablet (which is arguably more usable than irssi with the N800).	04:37
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summatusmentis	is there a way to get rid of this stupid ad widget?	04:41
GAN8001	Tap the menu while you're on the desktop	04:42
beford	Home -> Select Applets	04:42
GAN8001	^	04:42
beford	Disable Get Started / Tableteer info	04:42
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summatusmentis	awesome, didn't realize that menu was there	04:43
GAN8001	summatusmentis, the Getting Started applet and movie can also be uninstalled from Application manager (free up a couple of MB).	04:43
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: thanks	04:44
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beford	quick question, how do you delete objects on numtyphysics	04:47
GAN8001	Press the escape key	04:48
Navi	or you can open the editing panel	04:49
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GAN8001	Or give Navi vnc access and he'll beat the game for you.	04:50
beford	:P	04:50
beford	nah I can't figure out how to delete 'em	04:50
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beford	I have the editing panel, (that's the one that appears with the full screen key, right?)	04:52
DaniloCesar	Hey, I can't update N8X0... I'm receiving a "Time-out" message on apt-get update... Are anyone having this pb too, or it' s my connection?	04:53
beford	repositories are down	04:54
Benson	Server's having grief.	04:54
GAN8001	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3194	04:54
GAN8001	Add yourself to the CC list if you want to know when things are back to normal.	04:54
DaniloCesar	Thanks guys.....	04:54
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DaniloCesar	I was thoughing that it was a pb with my internet connection...	04:59
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* Cymor is back (gone 22:25:50)		05:04
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summatusmentis	is anyone else having issues refreshing their package list?	05:41
beford	yes, the server is down https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3194	05:42
GAN800	Ah,right, forgot to mention that, summatusmentis, repos are down, too. :/	05:43
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DaniloCesar	Can someone put this information on channel topic?	05:57
DaniloCesar	please	05:57
* Cymor is away: afk		05:58
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*** GAN800 changes topic to "development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://maemo.org \| http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook \| Servers are down temporarily https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3194"		06:00
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summatusmentis	GAN8001: that would've been good to know :)	06:23
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GAN800	Slipped my mind. ;)	06:24
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summatusmentis	no worries, it just means my n810 is not terribly exciting until they're back up	06:28
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scriptex	anyone here have a problem installing pluthon on os2008?	06:48
scriptex	depends maemo-pc-connectivity (broken packages)	06:48
beford	if its trying to install a package from the repositories it will probably fail	06:53
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nikosapi	not sure if I'm asking in the right place, but does anyone know where I can get sshfs for OS 2008?	06:54
scriptex	beford: thanks, I'll try to find the deb package	06:55
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scriptex	anyone know where can I download the deb packages aside from the repository (which is erroring)	07:09
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johnx	nikosapi, http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/download/target/pool/chinook/free/binary/	07:26
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lopz	night	07:29
scriptex	night	07:32
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nikosapi	johnx: cool, thanks! It works perfectly :)	07:44
johnx	:)	07:44
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beford	repositories seem to be working again	07:51
timely	there's an old mirror of things at http://timeless.justdave.net/repository/repository.maemo.org/	07:55
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timely	http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/repository-maemo-org-dns.deb	07:55
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timely	would bind it if you need it for a bit	07:55
timely	when you're done, just uninstall the deb	07:55
johnx	:D You love those DNS-adjusting .deb's huh?	07:55
timely	i can't remember which one i wrote first :)	07:56
timely	but code reuse is code reuse	07:56
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zetheroo	I am wondering why my N800 does not see any of the shared content on the network?	09:19
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RST38h	Aaaargh! N810 ate its battery during the night	09:54
karbas	what?	09:54
Proteous	how did it taste?	09:54
karbas	not mine	09:54
herwood	good morning	09:59
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herwood	I'm trying to hack the osso file manager. Does someone know that what should I do to make it possible to drag files from the file manager to other widget?	10:02
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RST38h	Space station's toilet begins to fail, panic sinking in	10:11
RST38h	herwood: you probably can't	10:11
RST38h	at least API does not show any evidence of drag&drop support	10:11
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herwood	so is the drag&drop implemented only internally in file manager?	10:13
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herwood	I'm having these problems because I'm not familiar with drag&drop functionality :P	10:14
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RST38h	herwood: I do not think it is implemented in hildon fm	10:16
herwood	hmm	10:16
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herwood	RST38h: but it is possible to drag for example files to other directories in fm or am I missing something here?	10:19
RST38h	yea, you can do it internally	10:19
RST38h	it is just not exposed	10:20
RST38h	wait, there may be a way to hack it, let me check	10:20
herwood	ok thanks	10:20
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RST38h	herwood: I have checked and none of the hildondesktop windows appear to accept drag&drop events	10:23
RST38h	looks like it is not supported after all	10:23
RST38h	there is some discussion of drag&drop in hildon, but it all appears to be centered around intra-application functionality	10:24
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hrw	morning	10:24
RST38h	ehlo	10:24
RST38h	[it is your sendmail speaking]	10:24
RST38h	btw, whoever was complaining about that mysterious "maemo style guide" recently, I have found it	10:25
herwood	RST38h: ok thanks	10:25
RST38h	maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/UI_Style_Guide_Summary_2.0.pdf	10:26
RST38h	(slightly outdated)	10:26
nomis	moin.	10:26
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* qwerty12 is happy. I figured out using the powers that be CAL how to fix my <unknown> version string in About. I also figured out how to change it to anything I want.		10:45
inz	Gone to the dark side you have.	10:48
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qwerty12	Hehe, I was getting tired of reflashing to fix it. Plus my nitro stopped working when the CAL was dodgy, I saw it on the framebuffer output.	10:49
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inz	nitro?	10:50
qwerty12	That bug reporting tool nokia use internally	10:50
qwerty12	When a program crashes, it actually tells me what process crashed	10:50
qwerty12	That's it's value to me	10:50
inz	ah	10:50
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* qwerty12 will always keep a copy of the first leak of the diablo repo. They leaked out some useful stuff which I never saw again on that repo.		10:51
qwerty12	kimrhh, Are you around? Sorry about yesterday, my internet got cut off. Did you compile that module?	10:55
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kimrhh	qwerty12: i am :)	10:59
kimrhh	qwerty12: i was hoping you would return	11:00
qwerty12	I'm really sorry :/	11:00
qwerty12	Did you manage to get that module compiled?	11:00
kimrhh	qwerty12: no no :) no problem	11:00
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kimrhh	well, I think I get the module compiled allright, but when I use modinfo on it, it tells me that it's the wrong arch, and when i try to insmod it on the n810 i get "wrong exec. format" or something like that. But I think I have might tried something stupid. Since I didn't see any .ko file in the dir where I make the module, I just tried to use the .o, but that is wrong isn't it? there should be a .ko somewhere	11:02
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hrw	qwerty12: OS2010 53.7?	11:02
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qwerty12	kimrhh, .o files aren't modules. Which module are you trying to compile?	11:03
qwerty12	hrw, if I wanted to ;p	11:03
kimrhh	i should mention that I use a dir inside the kernel sources, with a modified Makefile from another place in the kernel source	11:03
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kimrhh	qwerty12: thought so	11:03
kimrhh	(when I woke up and was more fresh :)	11:03
kimrhh	qwerty12: it's a module we use for some research, so our own module. It is working on a Gumstix if you know that device? also an Arm CPU	11:04
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qwerty12	Ah, yes i've heard of gumstix :)	11:05
qwerty12	brb, 1 second :)	11:05
qwerty12	Ok, with an external module, when I just run make on an external, I get "make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.24-17-generic/build: No such file or directory. Stop."	11:07
qwerty12	So here is what I did	11:07
qwerty12	Using nautillus as root (outside scratchbox), I went into /scratchbox/users/faheem/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/lib/modules	11:08
qwerty12	I made a folder called 2.6.24-17-generic but this will differ on your system, check your uname	11:09
qwerty12	Then I made a symlink of my Nokia kernel folder (kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.21.0) (it resides in /scratchbox/users/$USER/home/$USER/ for me) and called the symlink build	11:11
qwerty12	I then moved my new build symlink into the /scratchbox/users/$USER/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/lib/modules/2.6.24-17-generic folder	11:11
qwerty12	Then kernel modules compiled just fine with make and a *.ko file would be in my module folder.	11:12
qwerty12	I must add that I compiled a Nokia Stock/Generic kernel in my kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.21.0 to make sure	11:12
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:21
qwerty12	morning	11:21
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hrw	jo Jaffa	11:27
trickie	howdy	11:27
hrw	who will be tomorrow on linuxtag?	11:28
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kimrhh	qwerty12: kool	11:33
kimrhh	qwerty12: cool even :)	11:33
kimrhh	qwerty12: and thx	11:33
qwerty12	hehe :)	11:33
kimrhh	I'll try that tonight when I get home to my dev machine	11:33
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trickie	hrw: i will be	11:39
trickie	hrw: you?	11:39
hrw	just printed tickets	11:40
trickie	nice	11:40
hrw	I have to think which bag to get	11:40
hrw	and to take laptop or not. if I will take it then probably would have to show maemo in qemu...	11:40
kimrhh	qwerty12: what command did you use to make? "make -C build/ -M=`pwd´ ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-" or just "make" ? because I don't see how you get a Makefile by doing what you told me there :)	11:41
trickie	hrw: yes please	11:41
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trickie	hrw: i have been experiementing with mamona in qemu	11:41
trickie	using latest poky .bb's	11:41
qwerty12	kimrhh, the external modules I compiled already had a makefile :)	11:41
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hrw	crap - linuxtag eticket is in german only..	11:42
hrw	trickie: qemu on 600MHz x86 is not so fun	11:43
trickie	hrw: ha ha i could imagine, sometimes not too fun a core duo 2.33 either :)	11:44
* qwerty12 hasn't tried on a 2.8GHz core duo with 2gb ram :p		11:45
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hrw	trickie: on my athlon64 x2 2.2GHz it was ok.	11:45
hrw	trickie: it was even more ok on core2quad 2.4GHz	11:45
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trickie	yeah its definately usable, i just meant compared to a 600MHz x86 i could imagine	11:46
hrw	but this laptop is 1.6GHz working on 600MHz... I suspect cpu fan	11:46
trickie	ouch, that must be frustrating	11:46
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hrw	time to look at updating qemu again - n810 keyboard is in now	11:50
trickie	hrw: yeah i was taking a look at that... trying to get a recent omap kernel working on it	11:50
trickie	its the OH guys/gals adding that support to qemu yeah?	11:51
hrw	trickie: Andrew (irc:balrog) works for OH and is our qemu hacker	11:52
hrw	he added Sharp Zaurus, Openmoko neo1973 to qemu and few more	11:53
trickie	hrw: cool! yeah i have been looking at some of his recent qemu patches	11:53
trickie	hrw: gonna try get a full emulated sdk for mamona (ala poky style) when i get back from berlin	11:54
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Gatestone	Trying this out, just installed Scratchbox, now installing the MAEMO SDK...I have Ubuntu, but it was not clear to me if the installation would be straightforward and similar on a Red Hat machine? (Like my vmware Centos installation..)	12:14
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qwerty12	Not really, sbox and deb prefer to use apt/dpkg/deb based distributions. But it can be installed on a non-deb distro too.	12:15
qwerty12	*sbox and sdk	12:15
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kimrhh	qwerty12: hehe ok, could you tell me what they are?	12:20
kimrhh	qwerty12: then I could still ideas from them	12:20
qwerty12	There was this module: http://www.asix.com.tw/FrootAttach/driver/AX88772_772A_178_LINUX2.6.14_REV105.zip - after making the symlink, this one compiles brilliantly	12:20
* qwerty12 waits for my kernel with CONFIG_TIMER_STATS to compile :/		12:22
* qwerty12 now goes and installs strace into initfs		12:23
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hrw	hi florian	12:24
flo_lap	hi all	12:25
hrw	flo_lap: how goes LT?	12:26
flo_lap	hrw: not too bad - i guess i can post a photo later :)	12:27
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hrw	;)	12:29
hrw	flo_lap: how many stands between OE and T2?	12:29
flo_lap	hrw: two demopoints :)	12:30
hrw	enough ;)	12:30
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* qwerty12 is a tosser. I can't believe I ran halt by accident >.<		12:31
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sp3000	...hammerzeit	12:35
* sp3000 dances		12:35
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Gatestone	Sorry, did anyone answer me? My connection droppe...	12:55
Gatestone	d	12:56
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trickie	Gatestone: its still straight forward but doesn't .debs to install it all	12:57
trickie	doesn't use .debs	12:57
trickie	obviously	12:57
Gatestone	Ok, but my next question: can I run a command line hello.c in MAEMo	12:58
RST38h	yes	12:59
trickie	Gatestone: yeah, you can compile it in scratchbox for ARM or x86 in scratchbox	12:59
Gatestone	So how? Using the same commands as for maemo_hello.c results in the hello.c running in sbox window, not in a terminal on Xephyr?	12:59
Gatestone	run-standalone.sh ./maemo_hello runs it in sbox...?	13:00
Gatestone	I mean run-standalone.sh ./command_line_hello	13:01
RST38h	where do you want to run it?	13:01
Gatestone	In a Xephyr terminal Window? Or in a real device Terminal Window?	13:01
trickie	Gatestone: in sb, compile it for ARM, copy it to the device, and then in oss-xterm run it	13:03
trickie	s/oss-xterm/osso-xterm/	13:04
infobot	trickie meant: Gatestone: in sb, compile it for ARM, copy it to the device, and then in osso-xterm run it	13:04
Gatestone	Actually I don't have the device here. How do I run it in a Xephyr window?	13:04
Gatestone	Should I install osso-xterm first to the Xephyr environment? How?	13:05
Gatestone	Sorry but is my first night with this...	13:05
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Gatestone	My Application manager seems to do nothing? Shows no available packages?	13:06
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Gatestone	I am currentlyu compiling for CHINOOK-X86	13:09
Gatestone	How do I get osso-xterm running?	13:09
qwerty12	You don't need it, you use the scratchbox to run commands	13:10
Gatestone	But I want to see my command line programs running in the Xephyr Window?	13:11
qwerty12	hrw, is config partition checksummed?	13:11
Gatestone	So pretending it a the real device?	13:11
hrw	qwerty12: no idea	13:11
qwerty12	ah, ok thanks.	13:12
qwerty12	Gatestone, http://andrew.olmsted.ca/maemo/osso-xterm/	13:12
qwerty12	It's meant for real device but I've installed in sbox fine	13:12
qwerty12	use dpkg	13:12
qwerty12	and make sure you apt-get the ttf-bitstream-vera too	13:12
Gatestone	So in scratchbox I can use apt-get?	13:13
qwerty12	yes	13:13
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trickie	Gatestone: also the SDK stuff is not an emulator, so things maybe behave differently or not at all	13:14
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Gatestone	Ok, just to test I tried to apt-get install osso-clock, but it gives errors about permissions...	13:16
Gatestone	sudo apt-get... says "sudo must be setuid root"?	13:17
Gatestone	Should i use sudo with apt-get in Scratchbox or not?	13:17
qwerty12	fakeroot	13:17
Gatestone	"FAKEROOTKEY not defined..." ? I mean I try "fakeroot apt-get..."	13:18
Gatestone	ok, I got it!	13:19
Gatestone	wait	13:19
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Gatestone	So I got osso-clock installed wth apt-get. How do I run it in Xephyr Window?	13:20
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Gatestone	BTW, The Control panel on Xephyr opens an empty Window...	13:25
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Gatestone	Is it normal that there is no Control Panel ('/usr/share/applications/hildon-control-panel': No such file or directory in Scratchbox and empty Control Panel window in Xephyr)	13:30
qwerty12	Yes. The SDK is not an emulator. I once had a working control panel and I still don't see why I bothered.	13:30
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Gatestone	So, can you test MAEMO apps on the SDK or not? Do you really need the device?	13:34
Gatestone	And moreover: if I just manage to compile things in the Scratchbox, does it mean that basically they should run also on the device?	13:35
trickie	Gatestone: you can test and compile for the target device but is not an emulator	13:37
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Gatestone	I mean that like the libraries and dependencies can be tested? So if my programs run in the sbox, they are not using functionality that would not be available on MAEMO devices?	13:38
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trickie	yes libs and deps etc can be tested, and its where you can do your packaging	13:40
trickie	i suggest reading through the documents available at maemo.org	13:40
trickie	explains alot about ti	13:40
trickie	it	13:40
Gatestone	Well, I read the tutorials but looks like it is not so easy...	13:41
Gatestone	At least not to be grasped on one night with no prior experience in cross-compiled environments..	13:41
trickie	yes you are probably right	13:42
trickie	its not like developing a pc dekstop app	13:42
hrw	trickie: unless you have all libs and wole environment compiled for x86 and run it in xephyr	13:43
hrw	teuthen you can forget about scratchbox and do development.	13:44
hrw	but I do not know does it is possible with maemo	13:44
trickie	yes true	13:44
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RST38h	Galestone: Need a shortcut?	13:49
Gatestone	Yes?	13:49
RST38h	Galestone: 1) Install MaemoSDK+ (based on sb2) 2) Compile stuff as you would on your host system, but add "sb2" in front of gcc and other tools 3) When compiled, copy binary to the tablet using scp and run it using ssh	13:50
RST38h	And, probably, 4)Avoid using autoconf and friends	13:51
Gatestone	I don't have the device, I was hoping to use CHINOOK-X86 and Xephyr	13:52
hrw	autotools and friends are good company	13:54
hrw	if maemo does not handle them properly then maemo is broken	13:54
RST38h	Gatestone: these are braindamaged, unfortunately	13:54
RST38h	hrw: it handles them properly	13:55
RST38h	hrw: the main problem is the amount of garbage they create in your project directory	13:55
RST38h	CFLAGS = `sb2 pkg-config gtk+-2.0 gconf-2.0 libosso hildon-1 hildon-fm-2 --cfl	13:56
RST38h	ags --libs`	13:56
RST38h	Or something of this kind.	13:56
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MangoFusion	sometimes i wish the maemo sdk was as good as the iphone sdk ;)	13:58
wazd	iPhone SDK suxx	14:00
wazd	it's like you're sitting in the sanbox	14:00
wazd	with highvoltage walls	14:00
trickie	Gatestone: an alternative if you just want to start playing with hildon etc is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded	14:00
Veggen	wazd: Apple has never been a proponent of open systems and freedom, no.	14:01
trickie	Gatestone: then you can use a dev setup similar to what hrw described above	14:01
wazd	It's good nicely designed sandbox	14:01
RST38h	Mango: I.e. you wish it came with a toilet plunger?	14:01
wazd	with good sand and pretty forms :)	14:01
wazd	But with armed guards by the perrimeter	14:01
Veggen	wazd: Exactly. That's apple for you. The only reason they're better than MS is that their solutions are technically better, but they	14:01
Veggen	're not more open.	14:02
trickie	Gatestone: ie. platform compiled for x86 that runs under a xephyr instance	14:02
wazd	But iPhone SDK is still better for UI designing :(	14:02
trickie	Gatestone: i think anyway.. as i have not tried it	14:02
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fysa	see: webkit	14:09
fysa	imagine Microsoft opening any part of IE.	14:09
glass	Veggen: apple are the lock-in kings..	14:10
fysa	they just know when to pick their battles.	14:10
glass	if steve could choose, all osx soft would be sold on itunes	14:11
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MangoFusion	i don't really have much of an issue with the sandboxing. it's not as if i'd want to jump out and read a load of files or anything	14:11
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RST38h	fysa: Microsoft opened part of IE	14:16
RST38h	Mango: Do you have an issue with having to pay $100 to Jobs just to distribute your program?	14:17
RST38h	Maybe you happen to have an issue with the fact that Apple may refuse distributing your program at any moment, telling you to go fuck yourself?	14:18
MangoFusion	not if i am making money out of it ;)	14:18
RST38h	Ok.	14:18
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RST38h	Let us say you are making money out of it but then Apple says "go fuck yourself"	14:18
RST38h	Will this be satisfactory for you?	14:18
MangoFusion	that would be quite unfortunate. i'd hope that they were quite lenient as to what they find acceptable to distribute	14:19
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RST38h	They will not be	14:19
MangoFusion	but hey - there are plenty of other platforms to target	14:20
RST38h	For example, Sun can't port its Java to iPhone because Apple SDK licensing terms explicitely prohibit virtual machine development	14:20
MangoFusion	including just the browser	14:20
glass	RST38h: i don't have an issue with paying to apple or 30% of revenue share going to them, thats not actually too bad distributors share nowadays..	14:21
RST38h	Yea, you can target a different platform. But then, what does Apple SDK have to do with it?	14:21
glass	RST38h: the issue is as you say is them being the one to choose what you can do or not	14:21
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RST38h	glass: I pay ~11% to my CC processor	14:21
glass	RST38h: talking about mobile soft distribution in general	14:21
RST38h	30% is a lot if all they do is placing your program onto some ftp-like server	14:21
glass	RST38h: sms etc, or cc where there are multiple hands in between	14:22
MangoFusion	one can see why that is prohibited as they would be loosing money from licensing as developers could just skip them when distributing	14:22
RST38h	glass: you don'tneed most of this crap	14:22
glass	RST38h: handling the sms stuff with the 300+ operators	14:22
RST38h	Why do you need sms stuff?	14:22
glass	RST38h: for mobile convinient payments	14:23
RST38h	Mango: Well, they would be losing money anyway, after all, they COULD WRITE ï¤ALL THES PROGRAMTHEMSELVES! :)	14:23
glass	RST38h: handango etc take 30% with cc too	14:23
RST38h	glass: That is why I broke dist deal with Handango	14:23
RST38h	glass: They don't sell a shit, charge 30%, and behave like if they are some kind of AT&T	14:23
MangoFusion	in any case, will be interesting to see how the app store pans out	14:24
glass	RST38h: do they even still have proper sms payments?	14:24
RST38h	glass: No idea	14:24
MangoFusion	or even if it will be replicated on other platforms (e.g. maemo)	14:24
glass	RST38h: anyways, sms, wap etc payments are needed for selling the high volume entertainment shit	14:24
glass	RST38h: doesn't matter that much for more sophisticated apps	14:24
RST38h	WAP - no longer being used	14:25
RST38h	SMS - well, may be	14:25
glass	RST38h: but most game publishers etc don't see that much of the revenue	14:25
RST38h	for ringtones :)	14:25
glass	RST38h: for registering stuff etc sms is used too	14:25
glass	and games	14:25
RST38h	glass: actually, I can run SMS distribution out of my house	14:26
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RST38h	Even wrote the software for that	14:26
glass	RST38h: and make the deals with every operator on the planet yourself? true you can cover a lot of them with something like ericcson ipx	14:26
glass	it's not the soft thats the problem	14:26
glass	but the deals..	14:26
RST38h	It is kind of pointless though	14:26
RST38h	glass: I only need a phone to send SMS messages	14:26
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glass	RST38h: to receive payments with it	14:27
RST38h	Can't do payments easily	14:27
RST38h	but distribution - no problem	14:27
glass	yes thats not a problem	14:27
glass	(anyways, i work in a company involved in this)	14:27
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mgedmin810	anyone at linuxtag?	14:33
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* hrw goes tomorrow		14:34
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hrw	have to wake ~6 inthe morning	14:34
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KotCzarny	http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4596	14:39
KotCzarny	lol	14:39
* qwerty12_N800 is pissed off that messenger service is disappeared in my xp :/		14:41
hrw	KotCzarny: sure	14:42
hrw	KotCzarny: people mostly think about such acts as music/video/software piracy	14:43
hrw	I wonder does people going to US would have to take all NDA papers for NDA files on their laptops to prove that they are worth reading them	14:43
KotCzarny	i like 'right to destruct' part	14:43
KotCzarny	hrw, it's not us, it's canada+eu+jp	14:44
qwerty12_N800	eu? shit.	14:44
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glass	crap	14:45
hrw	KotCzarny: first it has to be signed by eu countries	14:46
KotCzarny	yeah	14:46
KotCzarny	but i will be	14:46
KotCzarny	sooner or later	14:46
KotCzarny	be it 5 or 25 years	14:47
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hrw	time to invest into high bandwidth lines to china or africa	14:48
KotCzarny	bad idead	14:49
KotCzarny	idea	14:49
KotCzarny	china could kill you for 'piracy'	14:49
KotCzarny	and africa.. heh	14:49
RST38h	hrw: Here is something you have to know	14:49
KotCzarny	it's being destroyed	14:49
RST38h	hrw: Whether EU signs this stuff or not, US court has decided that US customs have a right to seach your whole HD and other storage, same as your physical belongings	14:50
RST38h	hrw: And they don't care if you carry any industrial secrets, etc.	14:50
hrw	RST38h: USA is country on a list of countries which I do not plan to visit	14:51
hrw	first place on a list	14:51
RST38h	If you have encrypted stuff, they will ask you for a key and have a right to keep your hardware for an undefined period of time	14:51
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RST38h	Well, just in case you have to go there	14:51
hrw	RST38h: and if I would have to then I would take my laptop without any harddrive/pendrive etc and will buy harddisk locally + debian install cd	14:51
RST38h	Make sure you do not carry any sensitive stuff on your HD :)	14:51
RST38h	hrw: THAT will surely make them think you are planning something! =)	14:52
KotCzarny	or have a backup	14:52
KotCzarny	:)	14:52
hrw	the problem is that such hdd would have to stay iin us to not give me any problems on passing border next time	14:52
qwerty12_N800	hrw, I like that idea :>	14:53
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hrw	qwerty12_N800: it came to my mind when I first time read about problem	14:53
hrw	I even have crap enough phone to not have anything illegal to put on it	14:54
hrw	nokia 6230i or something - never used it for calling	14:54
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hrw	no storage for files (as no mmc card inside slot)	14:55
RST38h	you can juststore stuff online and access it with scp	14:55
KotCzarny	sshfs	14:55
KotCzarny	:)	14:55
hrw	sshfs does not handle ports other then 22 ;(	14:55
RST38h	They still do not have right to force this information out of you while you are inside the country	14:55
KotCzarny	hrw no?	14:55
KotCzarny	-p port	14:55
RST38h	You have a right not to incriminate yourself	14:55
KotCzarny	:)	14:55
hrw	KotCzarny: hm. last time when I checked I missed it	14:55
hrw	my home machine is not on 22	14:56
KotCzarny	or -o port=PORT	14:56
KotCzarny	try sshfs -h	14:56
hrw	40 minutes to have a copy of maemo image for qemu..	14:56
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hrw	and 2h to end qemu compilation ;(	14:56
qwerty12_N800	what machine? took me 1/2 hour :(	14:57
qwerty12_N800	*half-hour	14:57
hrw	pentium-M 600MHz with 5400rpm disk	14:57
qwerty12_N800	eek	14:58
KotCzarny	hrw, just bump speed temporarily	14:58
patoh	wouldn't suck much power but :D	14:58
KotCzarny	:)	14:58
teenel	I used mplayer -ac mad to play video but there's no sound in my n800, the audio is code by lame. I also tried ffmp3 and dspmp3, no help	14:58
hrw	KotCzarny: bumping to 1.6GHz switch back to 600 in less then 1s	14:59
KotCzarny	hrw, switch to userspace cpufreq?	14:59
hrw	KotCzarny: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/05/27/stuck-at-600mhz/	15:00
ssvb	teenel: do you have a log from mplayer?	15:00
hrw	and when I think that 5-6 years ago my desktop was even slower... duron/600 with 128MB ram	15:00
KotCzarny	hrw, i remember my thinkpad did something similiar when switching power options in bios	15:01
KotCzarny	ie. locking cpu to 600-1000 (instead of 600-1600)	15:01
hrw	KotCzarny: in bios it is set to fastest possible	15:01
teenel	ssvb:it said mad cann't codec the audio format	15:01
KotCzarny	and lowering other things too	15:01
KotCzarny	try another kernel version?	15:01
teenel	ssvb: but I can use mad to decode the audio format in my PC	15:02
hrw	KotCzarny: 2.6.24-rc7 2.6.25-rc1 2.6.26-rc4 all have same. it ws working fine before	15:02
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KotCzarny	try speedstep-centrino instead of acpi-cpufreq ?	15:03
ssvb	teenel: run mplayer with -v option and post this log somewhere (probably even to garage mplayer tracker)	15:04
hrw	speedstep-centrino fails to load	15:04
hrw	KotCzarny: it is ICH4 with 855GM. 3.5 years old	15:04
KotCzarny	i know	15:04
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KotCzarny	mine too	15:04
KotCzarny	:)	15:04
KotCzarny	well, 855PM	15:05
teenel	ssvb: thank you	15:05
KotCzarny	but ich4 too	15:05
KotCzarny	hrw: tried looking for another acpi versions?	15:05
hrw	855GM+ICH4-M to be exact	15:05
hrw	KotCzarny: other dsdt you mean?	15:06
KotCzarny	yes	15:06
hrw	did not looked for	15:07
KotCzarny	http://acpi.sourceforge.net/dsdt/view.php?id=391	15:07
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hrw	also have to find a moment to update bios back to last ver	15:07
KotCzarny	you should try looking into it	15:08
hrw	id=760 is my laptop	15:09
hrw	will test	15:09
KotCzarny	but cpufreq detects all speeds	15:11
hrw	sure - just stuck at 600-600	15:11
KotCzarny	what happens on userspace ?	15:11
hrw	same	15:11
hrw	nevermind which governor - 600-600 is stuck	15:12
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hrw	next time I will take linux cd to test does laptop export battery/ac/fan/thermal etc before buy	15:13
KotCzarny	hrm	15:13
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KotCzarny	well, ibm x3[0-2] doesn't have a problem	15:13
KotCzarny	with x31 and x32 you can even undervolt it	15:13
KotCzarny	(only way to reach 46C == fan off)	15:13
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hrw	KotCzarny: this laptop at 1.6GHz with heavy load was getting 80°C and over it	15:31
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*** GAN800 changes topic to "development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://maemo.org \| http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook"		15:34
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Gatestone	How do I run ARM binaries in scratchbox? I compiled hello_world.c and running it says "SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set"	15:36
Gatestone	What should I set there?	15:37
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Gatestone	Shoudl I use qemu....something to run the ARM binary?	15:38
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KotCzarny	hrw: mine did that with 1.8ghz and poor ventilation	15:39
johnx	it should be set by default if your target is armel	15:39
KotCzarny	and without undervolting	15:39
KotCzarny	:)	15:39
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johnx	gah...neither of you have it as bad as my poor P4 laptop O_o	15:40
KotCzarny	:)	15:40
KotCzarny	yeah	15:40
KotCzarny	pentium-m are nice	15:40
johnx	95f is not uncommon for me to see	15:40
johnx	errr...95c rather :/	15:40
KotCzarny	95f would be good	15:40
KotCzarny	;)	15:40
johnx	yeah really	15:40
johnx	my A64 desktop is close to that :D	15:41
hrw	johnx: p4 suxx always	15:41
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* GAN800 fries eggs on johnx's laptop.		15:41
Gatestone	If I look up target info, it sasy CPU transparency "none". So what should I do to get qemu-arm or something in place?	15:41
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johnx	hrw, no, really? :P	15:41
johnx	I got that laptop for free because the last guy who had it hated it so much he never used it anymore	15:43
hrw	;))	15:44
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Gatestone	ok, I did not do sbox_ctl start as root....now it works	15:46
Gatestone	I can emulate ARM	15:46
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KotCzarny	heh, freeeestuuuuffff	15:49
KotCzarny	:)	15:49
* KotCzarny got toshiba magnia sg20 for free		15:49
KotCzarny	also because of hateness	15:49
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johnx	yeah...using my n800 is almost infinitely preferable to using that P4 toshiba	15:51
johnx	it weighs 9 freakin' pounds!	15:51
hrw	but still can be used as file/printer server at home	15:51
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johnx	hrw, if I could trust it	15:52
johnx	I wouldn't let any files I care about anywhere near it	15:52
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andre___	hmm. looks i can attend LinuxTag too. nice.	16:52
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* nomis will leave for berlin in about half an hour.		17:07
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GAN8001	OK, there's my UI spec rant for the day. . . . <_<	17:18
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Jaffa	GAN8001: And a marvellous rant it is. I especially like the mythical rabbit	17:24
GAN8001	"Don't accept"	17:25
GAN8001	Who is he kidding? <_<	17:25
Jaffa	Indeed, somewhat scoff worthy.	17:25
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johnx	I like the idea of sitting in front of my computer "not accepting" your answers	17:26
johnx	s/your/their/	17:27
infobot	johnx meant: I like the idea of sitting in front of my computer "not accepting" their answers	17:27
GAN8001	Getting into a "fix this" "I can't" "fix it anyway" "I can't" with an engineer isn't my idea of productive bug work.	17:27
johnx	...kind of like giving Nokia the silent treatment :D	17:27
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GAN8001	Hehe, johnx. <whiney three-year-old>NO! DO IT!</whiney three-year-old>	17:27
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johnx	Nokia, until you fix bug #3161 I won't talk to you. :P	17:28
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johnx	also, has anyone else seen high memory usage and eventual system slowdown involving browersd on diablo?	17:29
johnx	*browserd	17:29
GAN8001	Not particularly, but I haven't paid much attention.	17:29
\|\|cw	simply "i can't" isn't an acceptable answer... I hope you had a good reason behind it, like "i can't without rewriting 90% of the the backend"	17:29
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GAN8001	\|\|cw, the "I can't" answer is follow by "because the UI spec says . . ."	17:29
qwerty12_N800	johnx, me.	17:30
\|\|cw	refile the bug as a UI spec problem	17:30
qwerty12_N800	shit slows down the rest of the n800. browser is a step back from chinook''s.	17:30
johnx	qwerty12_N800, can you reproduce it consistently?	17:30
GAN8001	\|\|cw, that wasn't possible until two days ago.	17:30
johnx	otherwise I'll bash on it tonight and see if I can...	17:31
qwerty12_N800	just go on a heavy site and open another window :/	17:31
johnx	ah...I can get it with one window and only browser open :/	17:31
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fysa	check your about:config settings	17:32
qwerty12_N800	johnx, same here but it's consistant like that :/	17:32
GAN8001	Did we decide that bugzilla was a good place to request sources?	17:33
johnx	fysa, my only local modifcations are minimum font size bumps	17:33
qwerty12_N800	no mods here	17:33
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fysa	maybe the defaults are bad.	17:33
qwerty12_N800	it's browserd that is bad	17:33
fysa	are you using debian/xfce daily, johnx?	17:34
johnx	fysa, nope.	17:34
johnx	definitely not :)	17:34
WorkingOnWise	good morning all	17:34
johnx	I prefer hildon/matchbox . I did the xfce release for people who seemed interested in that sort of thing	17:34
WorkingOnWise	johnx: what stops you from using it daily?	17:35
qwerty12_N800	anyone know anything else that is useless in initfs? need to shove a strace binary in there.	17:35
johnx	eh...usability, polish, available apps, power management,	17:35
WorkingOnWise	wow....thats a show stopper list ... power management especially	17:36
fysa	hildon/matchbox on debian, or maemo? :)	17:36
GAN8001	qwerty12_N800, bme, you should delete that. :P	17:36
qwerty12_N800	Nah! :p	17:36
WorkingOnWise	guess I shouldnt waste my time looking there for my maemo alternative huh?	17:36
fysa	still longing for webkit	17:36
GAN8001	Somebody needs to put together a non-shit frontend for the one that's in Extras, fysa.	17:37
johnx	fysa, either	17:37
WorkingOnWise	no disresoect to you johnx.. thad didnt come out right at all	17:37
johnx	WorkingOnWise, it's worth a try, but if you want a ready to go solution it's not ready yet	17:37
WorkingOnWise	disrespect either	17:37
johnx	that's ok. I didn't perceive it as disrespect	17:38
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johnx	I'll be the first to admit it's not ready for prime-time yet	17:38
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WorkingOnWise	johnx: do you know much about the ubuntu ports?	17:38
johnx	WorkingOnWise, that it's 99% Debian, except without official support from the package maintainers?	17:39
johnx	;) or did you mean something else?	17:39
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GAN8001	OK, I just went for it.	17:40
GAN8001	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3195	17:40
WorkingOnWise	i read a blurb saying some conical devs were porting fiesty and gutsy to the N8x0 series.	17:40
GAN8001	I'd really like to see this get somewhere: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=148283	17:40
WorkingOnWise	can-whatever its spelled	17:40
johnx	WorkingOnWise, I heard it was actually INDT guys who started it. but feisty/gutsy are old now. Debian is up-to-date	17:41
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johnx	I'm waiting for someone to give a good answer why they would choose ubuntu over debian on embedded ARM...	17:42
fysa	the nvidia ARM releases look promising.	17:42
WorkingOnWise	that was kind of my thought. and why port 2 versions? exciting to see another option, but wondering if it is a "because we can" kind of project....	17:42
qwerty12_N800	johnx	17:42
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johnx	qwerty12_N800!	17:43
qwerty12_N800	because i want to! :p	17:43
WorkingOnWise	lol	17:43
johnx	WorkingOnWise, I get that feeling too. :/	17:43
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GAN8001	Ha	17:43
qwerty12_N800	sorry, i pressed tab and then enter by accident :/	17:43
WorkingOnWise	it is looking like penguinbaits KDE is the most reasonable alternative right now.	17:43
GAN8001	Today should be "Do Whatever I Want To" day	17:43
WorkingOnWise	it is GAN8001 isnt it?	17:44
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GAN8008	Because I want to.	17:45
WorkingOnWise	is there a reasonable way to develop for maemo on Windows with Visual Studio?	17:45
pupnik810	lcuk here?	17:45
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Navi	WorkingOnWise, :\|	17:47
WorkingOnWise	I ask because it is what I have, and I just cant cut to Linux till I get a more capable laptop.	17:47
Navi	:\|	17:47
GAN8008	Ha	17:47
\|\|cw	WorkingOnWise: and then what tools would you use on linux?	17:48
qwerty12_N800	er, linux runs better on crap hardware than windows	17:48
Navi	^^^	17:48
WorkingOnWise	there ae a few apps I need dailr that only run in windows, so it means running xp or vista virtualixed pretty much all the time	17:48
GAN8008	Navi and qwerty12_N800 would know better than anybody with their crap hardware. :P	17:48
Navi	\o/	17:49
WorkingOnWise	qwerty12_N800: it does, till you run a windows vm and break linux's knees with it :)	17:49
qwerty12_N800	GAN8008, Says the person with a mac :p	17:49
GAN8008	Ooooh BUUUUUURN	17:49
qwerty12_N800	I feel for navi	17:49
qwerty12_N800	though :p	17:49
qwerty12_N800	256mb ram...	17:49
Navi	\o/	17:50
GAN8008	He brought it on himself.	17:50
WorkingOnWise	\|\|cw: I would imagine eclipse or KDevelop	17:50
Navi	No need to feel for me	17:50
lopz	hi	17:50
johnx	eh...that's 4 times as much as one of my build boxes...	17:50
\|\|cw	there' a win32 version of eclipse isn't there?	17:50
\|\|cw	and you could always use vmware	17:50
Navi	I don't use more than 20MB without X	17:50
qwerty12_N800	it's java	17:50
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WorkingOnWise	\|\|cw: never bothered to look to be honest. I think the biger thing would be scratchbox wouldnt it?	17:51
WorkingOnWise	in a Windows enviroment?	17:51
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\|\|cw	I don't see the scratchbox vmware image using all that much ram	17:52
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WorkingOnWise	I'm missing something here I think. \|\|cw are you saying I could run scratchbox via vmware image on Windows?	17:53
WorkingOnWise	or did I totally miss that flight?	17:53
\|\|cw	yes, there's a premade one	17:53
WorkingOnWise	ahhh...now that simplifies things.	17:54
\|\|cw	I think this is the official page http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/	17:56
WorkingOnWise	so barring any lack of competence on my part, I could use VS or Eclipse in Windows to develop for Maemo, using the vmware image to run the build environment. Right?	17:56
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johnx	yes...or just use eclipse inside the vmware image	17:56
\|\|cw	the vmware image include ecplise too	17:56
WorkingOnWise	oh...that was slick of whoever did that!	17:57
johnx	yup...it's a whole system ready to go	17:57
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WorkingOnWise	so I have this shiney new Visual Studio 2008 gifted by Microsoft and still no need for it!	17:58
johnx	yup!	17:58
WorkingOnWise	damn Open Source!	17:58
johnx	woo!	17:58
WorkingOnWise	lol	17:58
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johnx	give it as a christmas present maybe?	17:58
qwerty12	I have 2003 somewhere gifted by RS...	17:58
johnx	your grandpa might like it	17:58
WorkingOnWise	went to the launch or Win Serv 2008 2 weeks ago. Git that and Vista Ultimate	17:59
qwerty12	He could make a reminder program to clean the false teeth...	17:59
qwerty12	:p	17:59
WorkingOnWise	and a nifty soft side lunch bag	17:59
WorkingOnWise	lol	17:59
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WorkingOnWise	see, at thos prices, I dont mind crap software so much.	18:00
WorkingOnWise	I'm off to play with maemo. Thanks guys	18:00
johnx	sure, have fun :D	18:00
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nomeata	hi. i’m trying to use maemo-mapper on os2007 hacker edition (n770) with a bluetooth gps dongle. maemo-mapper runs fine, displays maps and finds the device when I scan for it. But when I try to connect, it tries for a while and then displays an error "GPSD not found". do I need to have GPSD running even for a bluetooth dongle?	18:09
qwerty12	yes	18:10
nomeata	should maemo-mapper start it by itself, or can I help somehow?	18:12
* trickie is off to linuxtag! ciao!		18:12
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Navi	woo	18:12
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qwerty12	I'm not actually sure how it works on os2007. (Never used it :/). On OS2008, I have GPS control panel.	18:12
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nomeata	hmm. when I try to start rfcomm and gpsd manually from the command line, it does not work ("illegal instruction")	18:13
hrw	nomeata: run prefs in maemo-mapper and add gps as BT device	18:14
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nomeata	hrw: I tried that, it finds the device, but when I activate it it gives me the GPSD error	18:15
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nomeata	hrw: if I select bluetooth there, does this mean that maemo-mapper (tries to) set up gpsd itself, or that it talks to the dongle without gpsd?	18:17
hrw	probably directly	18:19
hrw	never used with bt gps	18:19
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hrw	I hope that someone at maemo part of LT will have laptop - mine is too slow to show n800 qemu maemo	18:37
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qwerty12	Who else has a config partition working with it?	18:38
qwerty12	(OS2008 that is, not poky)	18:38
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hrw	I will take qemu binaries + maemo image with me	18:39
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hrw	will only need machine with working usb port to show it (linux 32bit/x86 capable)	18:39
hrw	debian 'sid' or ubuntu 7.10+	18:39
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hrw	on my laptop boot of it would take >10 minutes	18:41
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GAN8001	hrw, it'd be really sad if there weren't a single usable laptop around at a conference like LinuxTag. :D	18:48
hrw	;)	18:48
hrw	my d400 is fscking slow now	18:49
hrw	600MHz suxx	18:49
johnx	your n810 is pretty close to that :)	18:49
hrw	yep	18:49
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konttori	GAN8001: If you're at linuxtag, come to nokia booth tomorrow.	18:50
konttori	I'm at there all day	18:50
johnx	so, hrw, what are your thoughts on the "Open Pandora" linux handheld?	18:50
GAN8001	Nah, I'm remaining in the States	18:50
GAN8001	Tickets are expensive. :P	18:50
konttori	ah	18:50
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hrw	johnx: first let them release it	18:51
johnx	fair enough :)	18:51
hrw	johnx: then we will talk. now it is prototype maybe	18:51
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hrw	johnx: look at beagleboard from TI guys - thats interesting device	18:52
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johnx	definitely, just saw that the other day	18:52
hrw	and this one exists \	18:52
hrw	and is fully supported by OpenEmbedded	18:52
johnx	I don't think it will survive long in my pocket though :/	18:53
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GAN8001	Ha	18:53
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GAN8001	BeagleBoard looks cool as a home server of some sort, though.	18:53
johnx	or even a mobile server	18:53
johnx	or if you feel really geeky, a good start to a wearable computer	18:54
GAN8001	Certainly be quieter than the 2001 Quicksilver tower I'm using now.	18:54
qwerty12	Can anyone with a N8*0 with US wifi frequences run cat /dev/mtd1ro \| grep wlan-tx-gen plz? Mine is reported as wlan-tx-gen2, I wonder if it is different on another N800.	18:54
johnx	qwerty12, I see the same thing	18:54
qwerty12	Ah, thanks	18:55
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GAN8001	Hehe: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jadon/2295700120/sizes/l/in/pool-705532@N22/	18:58
hrw	have a nice evening and rest of week	18:58
hrw	see you on linuxtag guys	18:58
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GAN8001	http://www.flickr.com/photos/jadon/2414674548/sizes/l/in/pool-705532@N22/	18:58
johnx	qwerty12, I don't see many interesting strings :/	18:59
johnx	...in mtd1ro	18:59
qwerty12	It's config partition where CAL is stored. After I can get a cold flasher cable, I plan to try and reflash my own :/	18:59
johnx	GAN800, that is quite interesting once I figured out what was going on O_o	19:00
johnx	is that the beagleboard?	19:00
GAN8001	Yeah	19:01
GAN8001	$149	19:01
* GAN8001 wants NOA		19:01
unixSnob	qwerty12: I see wlan-tx-gen3	19:02
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qwerty12	unixSnob, mind running osso-product-info and saying what WLAN_CHANNEL is? thanks	19:03
unixSnob	qwerty12: ha.. I was just messing with you.. I saw wlan-tx-gen2 too :)	19:03
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qwerty12	lol	19:03
qwerty12	hehe, I thought you were serious :p	19:03
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unixSnob	i just wanted to see if you would get excited about seeing another version.. though I have no idea what this string is	19:04
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GAN8001	Mmm . . . this Beagle is hot.	19:10
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GAN8001	It's mildly disheartening that all the new OMAP3 devices I've seen have the same amount of NAND/RAM as the N8x0. . . .	19:11
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johnx	a little, but that seems to be par for the course in embedded ARM land	19:12
pupnik810	keesj, huhu	19:12
johnx	at least we're bumped to 128MB now	19:12
GAN8001	Fortunately it doesn't seem OMAP dependent.	19:13
GAN8001	"The Beagle uses the OMAP3 version ES2.1. It is in a .4mm pitch POP package. POP (Package on Package) is a technique where the memory, NAND and SDRAM, are mounted on top of the OMAP3. For this reason, when looking at the Beagle, you will not find an actual part labeled OMAP3."	19:13
pupnik810	ti is showing beagleboard at ltag here	19:13
GAN8001	"A 4 pin DIN connector is provided to access the S-Video output of the Beagle. This is a separate output from the OMAP processor and can contain different video output data from what is found on the DVI-D output."	19:14
GAN8001	Nice.	19:14
GAN8001	pupnik810, lotsa pics plz? :D	19:14
johnx	man, it's almost like this whole linux thing is starting to catch on :D	19:15
pupnik810	cam is chrgin	19:15
pupnik810	i hope	19:15
GAN8001	pupnik810, you there?	19:15
pupnik810	lots of cute females actually	19:15
GAN8001	Hehe	19:16
pupnik810	yeah	19:16
pupnik810	yeah the bgl is tiiiny	19:16
pupnik810	i will film the beagle demo 4 u	19:18
GAN8001	pupnik810, thanks!	19:18
johnx	yeah, thanks pupnik :D	19:19
GAN8001	http://www.beagleboard.org/uploads/Beagle_HW_Reference_Manual_A_5.pdf	19:19
GAN8001	The OMAP3 is rather disturbingly small	19:19
GAN8001	Page 35 is nicely labelled.	19:20
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johnx	hmm...that would make a darn nice start to a wearable computer	19:22
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johnx	sony had some nice glasses to provide a heads-up display too	19:26
GAN8001	The price is beyond perfect.	19:26
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qwerty12	Man, qemu does take a crapload of time to compile :/	19:37
GAN8001	You and your shit hardware. :P	19:37
qwerty12	And as soon as I said that, it finished 8-)	19:37
qwerty12	Nah, 2.8GHz 2 core and 2gb ram baby	19:37
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qwerty12	Although my old computer was too chungg, 700mhz and 128mb ram... ripped it apart and used it to softmod the xbox and binned the old computer...	19:38
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* johnx enjoys using his a shell account on his friend's machine for compiling 8)		19:39
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qwerty12	Aww, johnx's computer is too crap for the job :p	19:40
johnx	it works fine, but this lets me do 2 compiles at once	19:40
johnx	or one compile without slowing down my computer :)	19:41
johnx	anyways, a quad core phenom chews through compile way quicker than your desktop or mine :P	19:41
qwerty12	of course :p	19:41
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johnx	heh...except when it hard-locks while compiling glibc and it's a little far away to run over and reboot -_-	19:42
pupnik810	odd im the only guy at ltag with xchat	19:45
qwerty12	wtf	19:45
qwerty12	xchat pwns	19:45
pupnik810	wheres keesj	19:45
GAN800	Go and beat the up with the .deb, pupnik. :D	19:46
pupnik810	??	19:46
GAN800	xchat	19:46
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woojjob	is it possible to make php server on n8x0	19:48
qwerty12	Bollox. I thought I was compiling qemu with n800 emulation but it seems like the binary isn't there.	19:48
johnx	woojjob, I think so	19:48
pupnik810	well if lcuk or keesj show up here im in room 402	19:48
johnx	qwerty12, shouldn't it just be part of qemu-system-arm?	19:49
woojjob	it.s good	19:49
qwerty12	johnx, Dunno, I'm compiling qemu from cvs with hrw's patch. Just gonna have to look around :/	19:49
johnx	right, so it should make a binary called qemu-system-arm that can emulate an n800...	19:50
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GAN8001	Ha: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-May/033508.html	19:56
qwerty12	That's great: "svn: URL 'http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/poky/trunk/meta/packages/qemu/qemu-0.9.1%2Bcvs20080307' doesn't exist". Until: http://svn.o-hand.com/view/poky/trunk/meta/packages/qemu/qemu-0.9.1%2Bcvs20080307/?rev=4233#dirlist	19:56
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Anunakin	hi all!	19:58
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GAN8001	Howdy	19:58
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Anunakin	Any here using Debian? on N810?	19:59
* qwerty12 uses Debian on N800		19:59
johnx	Anunakin, yup :)	19:59
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johnx	sorry, didn't read that completely. I'm using it on an n800	20:01
Anunakin	hum	20:01
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johnx	have a question?	20:03
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Anunakin	Johnx...	20:07
Anunakin	yes	20:07
Anunakin	I talking with qwerty12	20:07
* qwerty12 is clueless I have to add		20:07
Anunakin	about patch X, to have middle and left mouse clicks	20:07
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johnx	so you want to rebuild xomap with your middle/right click patch?	20:08
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Anunakin	but ... we have Xomap sources?	20:09
johnx	yup	20:09
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Anunakin	The patchs files for X ... we can found on pdaXrom project...	20:09
Anunakin	There are more... like a handwriter tool for X	20:10
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Anunakin	A light plugin to use with kernel 2.6... this uses python ...	20:11
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johnx	xomap sources are here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0.1/free/x/xorg-server/	20:11
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Anunakin	This plugin controls backlight	20:14
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Anunakin	We can patch it for write to /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level	20:14
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woojjob	good daybreak	20:32
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RST38h	all right	20:36
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* johnx watches python-hildon compile on debian/armel		20:44
Navi	woo	20:44
Navi	got hildonness working?	20:45
johnx	libhildon is in debian proper	20:45
Navi	mmk	20:45
johnx	tinymail and modest are being packaged by someone else	20:45
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Navi	so you have modest running?	20:45
johnx	so I decided to take a swing at repackaging python-hildon and seeing how many apps will "just work"	20:45
johnx	not yet	20:46
Navi	mmk	20:46
johnx	waiting on someone else to finish with libtinymail packaing	20:46
Navi	lol	20:46
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johnx	actually, it should be pretty easy to do a quick/dirty job...but more work to bring it up to debian standards	20:47
summatusmentis	woot! feeds are up!	20:47
ultralord	Hola. En su día recibi el cupon de descuento para comprar el N810. Donde lo puedo solicitar de nuevo? Gracias.	20:47
ultralord	Lo perdi	20:48
Navi	feeds for what?	20:48
summatusmentis	Navi: the repos	20:48
Navi	?	20:48
summatusmentis	ultralord: hablas ingles? nosotros preferemos hablar en ingles	20:48
summatusmentis	Navi: for whateve reason, I couldn't download any packages last night	20:49
Navi	ah	20:49
GAN8001	Navi, #3191	20:49
GAN8001	Er, #3194, rather	20:49
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ultralord	Hello, a time ago I received a coupon of discount. In order to buy the N810. There am it lost. Where I can ask for it again? Thanks.	20:51
GAN8001	ultralord, email Nokia support.	20:51
GAN8001	Expires in June, as far as I know.	20:52
GAN8001	So act fast.	20:52
* gnuSnob wonders what the n810 promo was		20:53
GAN8001	gnuSnob, it wasn't a "promo", really	20:53
GAN8001	It's the discount program for developers and community folks.	20:53
gnuSnob	ah	20:53
GAN8001	http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html	20:53
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Navi_	Ugh	20:57
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ultralord	Thanks, already I have sent a request to the Support of Nokia. To see if it responds to me.	20:58
ultralord	Like the code of discount, as it is the price of the N810?	20:59
RST38h	Hehe: http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/05/28/eclipse_e4_old_java/	21:01
GAN8001	ultralord, (assuming I read the question correctly) the N810 should go for about $160 USD with the discount code.	21:01
RST38h	Anybody knows why a brand new N810 would refuse to power up after flashing it with the latest firmware?	21:01
GAN8001	Low battery?	21:02
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Navi	No battery?	21:03
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GAN8001	Somebody stole the insides? :P	21:03
johnx	that's not an n810, it's actually a dead badger?	21:03
GAN8001	Put your glasses on, RST38h. :P	21:04
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RST38h	No, seems ok otherwise	21:13
RST38h	Turns on every now and then, seemingly at random	21:13
RST38h	(but still after pressing the power key of course :))	21:14
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kimrhh	does anyone have a simple Makefile for making a C app to the ARMEL target?	21:23
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johnx	kimrhh, you want to cross compile? or compile natively on am arm machine?	21:24
kimrhh	johnx: cross, it's for the n810	21:24
kimrhh	:)	21:24
kimrhh	and I'm no autotools expert myself :)	21:24
johnx	so you're not using scratchbox?	21:24
kimrhh	johnx: well yes, but reading through the docs I can't find an example Makefile, guess I could grap one from one of the .deb packages	21:26
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kimrhh	since this is only 1 .c file	21:26
johnx	if you're in scratchbox you can just act as if you're compiling natively and it should "just work" (tm)	21:26
kimrhh	and not something that should be installed on other n810s I actually just the the right gcc command	21:26
kimrhh	johnx: aha	21:27
kimrhh	fancy :)	21:27
kimrhh	let me try that	21:27
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Navi	johnx, illegal use of trademarks	21:30
* Navi arrests johnx		21:30
johnx	heh	21:30
johnx	to quote slashdot tags goodluckwiththat	21:31
Navi	:D	21:31
Navi	obconf takes up a huge amount of ram caching everything :	21:31
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Navi	:\|	21:31
johnx	though, to be honest, I assumed that comment in red in my IRC window was going to say "illegal instruction"	21:31
johnx	I actually had to reread it to figure out what was going on	21:32
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Gatestone	Greeting from Vancouver, we are trying install Maemo here in the class...	21:33
johnx	hi	21:33
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GAN8001	Hi, Vancouver. :P	21:37
Navi	troll	21:37
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ReKlipz	A question: I've enabled R&D Mode on my n810. without installing ssh, how can I access the root account, and what is the default password?	21:39
Rimdar_Klall	Please help me, I just accidentally revealed my password	21:39
Rimdar_Klall	how do I change it!	21:39
qwerty12_N800	ReKlipz, sudo gainroot	21:39
johnx	ReKlipz, yup, no root password is set by default	21:40
qwerty12_N800	no default password if you don't have ssh	21:40
ReKlipz	so, it's just "enter"?	21:40
Navi	ReKlipz, on IRC?	21:40
Navi	er	21:40
Navi	Rimdar_Klall, on IRC?	21:40
johnx	ReKlipz, sudo gainroot<enter>	21:40
johnx	Rimdar_Klall, run passwd	21:40
Navi	johnx, running passwd doesn't help if it's for IRC :P	21:41
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johnx	Navi, since this is #maemo I figured it was tablet related. :shrugs:	21:42
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ReKlipz	is there anyway to connect to a network via usb instead of wlan? the wlan doesnt seem to be very good with my n810...	21:43
johnx	ReKlipz, yup. It's called usbnet.	21:43
GAN8001	ReKlipz, your router may not like the wifi powersaving	21:45
GAN8001	You could try turning it off.	21:45
ReKlipz	the WLAN idle time?	21:46
ReKlipz	it is set to unlimited	21:46
johnx	ReKlipz, nope, in advanced	21:46
ReKlipz	advanced is where?	21:47
*** Rimdar_Klall_ is now known as Rimdar_Klall		21:47
ReKlipz	ah, found it	21:47
johnx	control panel -> connectivity -> connections -> select your ap -> edit -> next, next, next, advanced	21:47
johnx	IIRC	21:47
ReKlipz	yeah, it's specific to AP	21:47
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johnx	it's a well kept secret O_o	21:48
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ReKlipz	i think it's just crappy signal strength, we're in the process of redoing the whole network, wired and all. Is there support for 802.1x authentication (specifically RADIUS)	21:49
Navi	dun steel mah seeckrehts	21:49
GAN8001	ReKlipz, it pretends it's specific, but it's actually a global setting	21:51
GAN8001	There's a bug somewhere. . . .	21:51
johnx	GAN800, it's part of the UI spec :D	21:51
Navi	yay UI spec	21:51
johnx	actually joking this time...though I wouldn't be surprised	21:52
* GAN8001 blows his top.		21:52
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* GAN8001 is waiting for Quim to get out of whatever meeting he's in so I can jump down his throat again. ;)		21:52
johnx	and dance upon his liver?	21:52
GAN8001	Actually, johnx, joking you may be, but I believe it actually is a UI spec issue. <_<	21:53
*** Dar_AFK is now known as Dar		21:53
RST38h	KILL KILL	21:53
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Navi	PHOENIX DOWN PHOENIX DOWN	21:54
ReKlipz	what happened to phoenix?	21:54
GAN8001	It landed. :P	21:55
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ReKlipz	so, it's not "down"	21:55
ReKlipz	it's been landed for like 2 days	21:55
GAN8001	Yes it is.	21:55
johnx	well it's not up	21:55
ReKlipz	they've gotten pictures back from it...	21:55
GAN8001	Landing is frequently referred to as being "down". :P	21:55
johnx	in fact I'm pretty sure it's going to have trouble even making orbit, let alone escape velocity...	21:55
Navi	O_o	21:56
GAN8001	A pilot might say, "We're down"	21:56
ReKlipz	yeah, i guess, but it landed over 48 hours ago...	21:56
johnx	and hasn't floated away yet!	21:56
GAN8001	Yeah, Navi's just being trollish and I'm just making a joke. :P	21:56
ReKlipz	:P	21:56
Navi	:P	21:56
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ReKlipz	i thought it broked	21:56
Navi	I'm totally not trolling	21:56
GAN8001	Don't lie	21:56
* Navi lies		21:57
Navi	I lied about lying	21:57
ReKlipz	the statement, "I'm a liar" is true no matter what.	21:58
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johnx	yay...for random packaging of maemo apps! woo!	21:59
Navi	Woo!	22:00
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Navi	Sup?	22:00
johnx	a script called "makedeb" instead of control, rules, changelog	22:00
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qwerty12_N800	Anyone know where the patch to run the N800's Cpu at 400 when dsp is enabled or running at 133?	22:01
* Navi shrugs		22:01
GAN8001	johnx, you going to join pkg-maemo?	22:02
GAN8001	They seem a little dead.	22:02
GAN8001	qwerty12_N800, check fanoush's site?	22:02
johnx	GAN8001, I poked at them. They're working on tinymail so I decided to give python-hildon a try	22:02
qwerty12_N800	GAN800, Thanks, checking now	22:02
ReKlipz	so, if I remove hildon, I will still have the hardware drivers / api, right?	22:03
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n800m	http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6555/1210300064121rv8.jpg	22:04
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qwerty12_N800	No, can't see the patch there. I think it's included in his kernel, will take a look	22:04
johnx	ReKlipz, yes, but all your GUI programs will be broken	22:04
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GAN8001	Throw rocks at fanoush until he gives up his secrets, then.	22:04
ReKlipz	johnx: but I'll still have the GTK, no?	22:04
kimrhh	hmm, so where are the folder which the Application Manager can see actually located in the fs hierachy?	22:04
GAN8001	"folder"?	22:05
ReKlipz	I just want to remove the whole "window manager/navigation" piece, and replace it with my own single app.	22:05
kimrhh	GAN8001: directories then :)	22:05
johnx	ReKlipz, aaah, ok	22:05
johnx	the window manager is matchbox	22:05
GAN8001	The question still isn't entirely meaningful, kimrhh. :P	22:05
kimrhh	Documents, Audio Clips, Images etc	22:05
johnx	and the side panels are "hildon desktop"	22:05
johnx	hildon is also the name of the GUI lib	22:05
GAN8001	kimrhh, Application manager?	22:05
kimrhh	GAN8001: well, they are not in /home/user at least :)	22:06
* GAN8001 is confused.		22:06
kimrhh	GAN8001: yees, you know, the one that comes with the OS2008 :)	22:06
GAN8001	Documents, Audio Clips, and Images have nothing to do with the Application manager.	22:06
GAN8001	You mean File manager?	22:06
kimrhh	GAN8001: it's possible to choose, "install from file"	22:06
kimrhh	nope	22:06
GAN8001	If so, it's /home/user/MyDocs/.documents etc	22:06
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johnx	kimrhh, the folders app manager installs to? or where it looks for files?	22:06
johnx	where it looks for files: below /home/user/MyDocs	22:07
kimrhh	johnx: looks, think the . prefix is the answer :)	22:07
johnx	and also on sd cards /media/mmc1 /media/mmc2	22:07
kimrhh	thanks	22:07
GAN8001	Application manager was unrelated. :P	22:07
kimrhh	i just scp'ed the .deb og bluez-utils over, thought it was easier	22:07
GAN8001	kimrhh, just dpkg -i it over ssh	22:08
johnx	kimrhh, just mv it to MyDocs	22:08
kimrhh	johnx: it is in MyDocs, that doesn't seem to be a dir visible to app manager	22:08
kimrhh	GAN8001: ah, much nicer	22:08
lopz	mm... gobject.GError: no element "multimpartdemux" any ideas ?	22:08
johnx	kimrhh, it is	22:08
lopz	multipartdemux*	22:09
kimrhh	johnx: oh it is, just me who fails it :) but a little non-logic that it's called Nokia N810 :)	22:09
johnx	yeah, it's a little annoying that Nokia couldn't just let us poke around in /home/user but had to move things one level down instead	22:10
kimrhh	indeed	22:10
kimrhh	not sure I get the whole "you cannot sudo" thing	22:11
GAN8001	It's "user friendly" johnx. :P	22:11
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kimrhh	but i guess, switching to R&D mode actually is like saying "ok, I know that I can harm my device now" :)	22:11
johnx	basically	22:11
GAN8001	Better off just installing easyroot	22:11
johnx	or just install easyroot from nitapps.com	22:12
GAN8001	R&D mode has some other consequences.	22:12
* qwerty12_N800 uses tablet in rd mode because i keep forgetting to turn it off :p		22:12
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kimrhh	GAN8001: i'll remember that, only found the guides about replacing openssh with dropbear, and thought it was just easier to drop into R&D	22:14
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GAN8001	I'm really digging Benson's backpack server idea.	22:16
johnx	GAN8001, on ITT?	22:17
GAN8001	The BeagleBoard thread	22:17
GAN8001	Dump a beagle in a backpack	22:17
johnx	yeah...that's what I thought at first too	22:17
GAN8001	put a stack of batteries in there, GPS, WAP, WWAN, NAS	22:17
johnx	with a big 9 cell laptop battery and a cellphone uplink	22:17
johnx	bluetooth for a2dp too	22:18
GAN8001	Some good antennas so you get decent range.	22:18
qwerty12_N800	erm, does a dev_dbg function mean more dmesg output?	22:18
johnx	I was actually thinking of a gumstix for that kind of project	22:18
GAN8001	I doubt if I'd get much use out of something like that as it stands, but still.	22:18
johnx	but beagleboard would work too	22:18
GAN8001	Be a fun project	22:18
johnx	and a beagleboard does svideo out too :D	22:19
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GAN8001	Yeah	22:19
johnx	nice to take over to a friend's house and plug into the TV	22:19
GAN8001	I wonder if they've got the PowerVR or IVA2 working on that thing.	22:19
* qwerty12_N800 likes the way maemo is running on the beagleboards :)		22:20
johnx	actually...if it's pandora compatible it might make a neat linux-based console :D	22:20
GAN8001	Fun fun fun	22:20
GAN8001	I like it as a invisible desktop, too.	22:21
johnx	vesa mount to the back of an LCD?	22:21
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GAN8001	Something like that	22:22
johnx	heh	22:22
johnx	maybe you could find someplace inside the LCD bezel to stick it	22:22
johnx	or in the base of the stand	22:22
GAN8001	I wonder if anybody sells a 5-8" LCD I could attach to it easily	22:22
johnx	sure	22:22
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johnx	look for carpc stuff	22:22
GAN8001	Crappy and lowres	22:22
johnx	not necessarily	22:23
GAN8001	I'm thinking touch, too.	22:23
GAN8001	Build myself a wooden tablet	22:23
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kulve	afaik, beagle doesn't have SGX nor IVA in use, at least not yet	22:24
GAN8001	So I figured	22:25
GAN8001	The future holds hope, though	22:25
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johnx	that's the same omap as the pandora though, right?	22:26
GAN8001	Think so	22:26
GAN8001	Effectively the same as the N900 is likely to have, too.	22:26
* GAN8001 wonders how easily drivers/libraries can be shared.		22:26
johnx	and the pandora will definitely have a working powervr driver	22:27
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summatusmentis	wait, n900? I hope that's not coming soon...	22:27
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johnx	summatusmentis, it's a rumor only	22:28
GAN8001	summatusmentis, earliest'll be late Q3	22:28
GAN8001	But, like johnx says, there's absolutely nothing concrete yet	22:28
johnx	if I had to bet, I'd say Q4 2008 or Q1 2009	22:28
* GAN8001 really hopes it's this year		22:28
GAN8001	2009 will put them way behind the curve. :\	22:29
summatusmentis	I just bought a n810! :-/	22:29
summatusmentis	I hate how fast tech turns over	22:29
Anunakin	yes	22:29
Anunakin	I just bought a N810 too...	22:30
GAN8001	Get over it.	22:30
GAN8001	Technology moves	22:30
GAN8001	It doesn't invalidate the device you have in your hands right now	22:30
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GAN8001	Me, personally, I've had this tablet since January 2007 . . . I'm ready for an upgrade.	22:31
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Anunakin	hehe	22:32
Anunakin	Jan 2007... I had a Zaurus SL 3100	22:32
kkrusty	I bought an n800 a few weeks ago :(	22:32
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kkrusty	cost me 149 pounds	22:33
johnx	the n8x0 will have a long road ahead as a hackable linux handheld	22:33
kkrusty	is that cheap?	22:33
kkrusty	I think it is	22:33
GAN8001	Pounds of what? :P	22:33
GAN8001	Pig fat?	22:33
johnx	kkrusty, probably for the UK	22:34
kkrusty	British pounds	22:34
GAN8001	;)	22:34
kkrusty	:)	22:34
johnx	I think it was going for <$200 in the US a bit ago	22:34
kkrusty	here they have VAT which is supposed to be about 17% of everything	22:34
GAN8001	Europe is so awesomely socialist	22:36
GAN8001	I don't know how anybody puts up with it.	22:36
johnx	GAN8001, actually a little projector with integrated power supply and beagleboard would be pretty awesome in my book :D	22:36
GAN8001	Yeah	22:36
johnx	GAN8001, health care?	22:36
GAN8001	Stick it onto a baseball cap.	22:36
GAN8001	Shitty health care?	22:36
GAN8001	Yeah, sounds good. ;)	22:37
GAN8001	So the projector is projecting wherever you look.	22:37
johnx	blinding everyone you talk to!	22:37
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GAN8001	Woo	22:37
GAN8001	Those new micro projectors probably wouldn't cut it	22:37
GAN8001	You need to get an industrial sized one	22:37
GAN8001	Work those neck muscles.	22:37
GAN8001	You'll look like Barry Bonds in no time at all!	22:38
johnx	I was really enjoying not having inherited my family's hereditary back problems...but I guess it wasn't meant to be	22:39
GAN8001	I want some retinal projectors.	22:39
johnx	ah, did you see the sony prototype things on gizmodo the other day?	22:39
GAN8001	Yeah, cool shit isn't it?	22:39
johnx	yeah	22:40
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GAN8001	Mount a projector in my glasses.	22:40
johnx	I've been following the whole wearable computer thing for 10+ years now	22:40
johnx	finally starting to get close I think :D	22:40
ReKlipz	johnx: best way to remove the hildon desktop?	22:40
johnx	ReKlipz, easy: don't.	22:40
GAN8001	apt-get nuke hildon-desktop	22:41
johnx	just don't run it	22:41
ReKlipz	that'll work too, :P	22:41
Anunakin	haha	22:41
ReKlipz	how can i do that?	22:41
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johnx	first, are you booting from SD?	22:41
ReKlipz	no	22:41
ReKlipz	i can be though	22:41
Anunakin	Hey johnx, is any way to close Xomap... and dont crash ?	22:41
johnx	are you backed up?	22:42
ReKlipz	nothing to back up	22:42
ReKlipz	so, yes	22:42
johnx	Anunakin, on debian? just kill it	22:42
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Anunakin	hum!	22:42
Anunakin	ok	22:42
johnx	or /etc/init.d/x-server stop	22:42
johnx	and that script will kill it :)	22:42
johnx	ReKlipz, you're very likely to need to reflash soon when you start messing around with boot order stuff	22:43
johnx	I would do this from SD so you can fall back to booting from flash to fix your mistakes	22:43
ReKlipz	i've already reflashed once, so no worries	22:43
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Anunakin	I have 3 partitions on my microSD, one with files(vfat), debian and other with maemo+kde	22:44
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ReKlipz	the SD slot, an SDHC slot?	22:45
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Anunakin	but... my problem ... now is run gnuplot under maxima	22:45
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summatusmentis	wait, kde can be installed on top of maemo? I thought it needed to be debian?	22:46
ReKlipz	kde is a desktop environment	22:46
ReKlipz	debian is the linux distro	22:46
ReKlipz	hildon is a version of gnome	22:46
ReKlipz	sort of...	22:46
GAN8001	summatusmentis, look at Penguinbait's deb install	22:46
GAN8001	Extension, really, ReKlipz.	22:47
summatusmentis	yeah, but I assumed it needed the debian sub system to run on top of	22:47
ReKlipz	maemo is debian...	22:47
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summatusmentis	GAN8001 I've seen it, I assumed it was for pure debian	22:47
johnx	maemo is close enough to debian that penguinbait was able to get KDE working with quite a bit of effort	22:47
ReKlipz	can i put straight debian on the n810?	22:48
johnx	yes	22:48
ReKlipz	any disadvantages?	22:48
johnx	power management doesn't work as well	22:48
GAN8001	Interface isn't well set up for the device	22:48
johnx	a little more CLI work to manage wlan	22:48
GAN8001	Hardware keys, etc.	22:48
johnx	GAN8001, hardware keys work fine in debian now	22:49
GAN8001	Not as smoothly as OS2008. :P	22:49
johnx	ReKlipz, also, hildon-desktop is actually a nice system	22:49
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GAN8001	and text input is a royal pain without an N810.	22:49
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ReKlipz	johnx, I don't need the window manager	22:50
GAN8001	ReKlipz, I really think you're wasting effort trying to dump all the system stuff	22:50
GAN8001	Just keep it and build your application.	22:50
johnx	ReKlipz, what do you plan to replace it with?	22:50
ReKlipz	my own app	22:51
johnx	just run your app fullscreen	22:51
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GAN8001	Saves you the trouble of doing complicated setup with each new unit	22:51
ReKlipz	i guess so..	22:51
GAN8001	just leave it as-is and install the application	22:51
ReKlipz	i could just as easilly flash each one with the new binary though... and that'd be that	22:51
johnx	matchbox is pretty lightweight	22:52
GAN8001	But your wasting time now trying to dump things that really don't need to be dumped.	22:52
johnx	ReKlipz, I would look at how penguinbait handles it with KDE	22:52
ReKlipz	... ok, you've convinced me	22:52
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johnx	GAN8001, it will save some memory if his app is big enough to have issues running out of memory	22:53
ReKlipz	I just don't see the need for running matchbox and the like if it's never gonna be touched	22:53
johnx	it all comes down to effort/benefit ratio	22:54
GAN8001	Out of interest, how's the code going to be licensed, ReKlipz?	22:54
johnx	get your app running first, then see if you need to put in the effort to make matchbox not run	22:54
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ReKlipz	GAN8001, honestly, not sure	22:55
ReKlipz	we've not really thought about it at all...	22:55
johnx	I've been in a similar situation making thin clients into linux web kiosks	22:55
johnx	optimize last: you'll be much happier	22:55
ReKlipz	sounds like a plan	22:55
ReKlipz	ok, how to get usbnet working...	22:55
johnx	insmod g_ether.ko && ifup usb0	22:56
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ReKlipz	oh, and is it just me, or is the usb cable a proprietary connector?	22:56
johnx	ReKlipz, it's not	22:56
ReKlipz	it looks smaller...	22:56
johnx	also, re: usbnet, read here: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howtosetupusbnetworkingdebian/	22:56
LinuxCode	mini-usb	22:56
GAN8001	It's new	22:56
GAN8001	MicroUSB	22:56
LinuxCode	or that	22:57
ReKlipz	microsub, ok	22:57
Blafasel	It's just a stupid f...king connector that noone uses.	22:57
ReKlipz	usb	22:57
GAN8001	But not proprietary.	22:57
ReKlipz	its no smaller than mini usb...	22:57
GAN8001	Blafasel, because it's new. . . .	22:57
GAN8001	Yes it is	22:57
Blafasel	So that you can sell the cable for $$$$ instead of some cents..	22:57
GAN8001	It's significantly smaller than MiniUSB	22:57
Blafasel	Yeah, but what for?	22:57
LinuxCode	yah	22:57
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LinuxCode	half the size	22:57
GAN8001	http://www.ringnokia.com/images/2007/05/27/motorola_razr2_v8img_3995.jpg	22:57
Blafasel	Don't tell me that they needed the mm on the device ;)	22:57
LinuxCode	Blafasel, a standard usb wouldnt fit on a n810	22:57
qwerty12_N800	Nokia recently put out something in a repo to set usbnet via control panel applet.	22:58
GAN8001	Blafasel, MUCH smaller, MUCH more durable (significantly more plug/unplug cycles).	22:58
ReKlipz	it's half as thing, but 10x as brekable	22:58
Blafasel	Mini (or whatever) would have fittet.	22:58
GAN8001	Several orders of magnitude more durable than Mini, actually, ReKlipz.	22:58
ReKlipz	really?	22:58
GAN8001	Yes	22:58
ReKlipz	thats good then	22:58
Blafasel	And is in use all over the place (cameras, gadgets)	22:58
ReKlipz	it looks much more brekable	22:58
GAN8001	Blafasel, there was a time nobody used USB	22:59
GAN8001	It takes more than 6 months for new standards to get moving in the market place.	22:59
ReKlipz	and it wasn't that long ago...	22:59
GAN8001	It's a BIG improvement over MiniUSB	22:59
GAN8001	Blafasel, cables will get cheaper when economies of scale kick in.	23:00
Blafasel	GAN8001: Your points are theoretical imo. You cite "smaller" which I'd counter with insignificant for this device and "more durable" which I'd counter with "See these old mini using devices of mine"	23:01
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Blafasel	Well.. I don't like the decision and just cannot see the point. Even their own mobile brand doesn't use it (Had an E51 lately).	23:02
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johnx	Blafasel, I think they were trying to save all the room they could, and as for more durable there is a spec somewhere that states the number of plug/un-plug cycles	23:02
GAN8001	OK, Blafasel, believe whatever you want to believe, I don't need to convince you. Just check your facts before you spew. :)	23:02
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GAN8001	Get back to me when you design a mobile device.	23:03
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Blafasel	GAN8001: Renewable energy is the future. We should have a solar-based N810. The price and output will catch on with the requirements. But it's def. "better" ;)	23:03
glass	miniusb is more common.. thats why i like having them on my devices over microusb	23:03
glass	finding a microusb charger is a bitch for example	23:04
Blafasel	johnx: Yeah, I don't doubt that the numbers are right.	23:04
Blafasel	glass: Thanks for jumping in.	23:04
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glass	the new nokia smaller charger plug sucks bigtime because it's not durable	23:04
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Blafasel	That's another point that I'd agree with. Wonder what the plugin cycles are for that tiny pin.	23:05
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ReKlipz	so, there is 2GB internal flash, and one miniSDHC slot on the outside of the n810?	23:09
GAN8001	Right	23:09
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GAN8001	Plus the 256MB of NAND the rootfs is on.	23:09
puffandstuff	I would like to know the average "stratup time" of an application using maemo please	23:10
ReKlipz	poop on the NAND flash, go with NOR next time...	23:10
ReKlipz	i assume 2GB internal is NAND as well?	23:10
GAN8001	It's a soldered on SD card, more or less.	23:11
ReKlipz	is that an SD card and is it accessable? (physically?)	23:11
ReKlipz	hmm, so it's not upgradable	23:11
LinuxCode	GAN800, are you certain ?!?!	23:11
johnx	puffandstuff, any app in particular?	23:11
LinuxCode	I was sure it was NAND	23:11
ReKlipz	SD is nand...	23:12
puffandstuff	johnx, i missexplained the purpose, sorry. I would like to know how much is the startup time from pushing power on until displaying the desktop	23:12
johnx	ah	23:13
GAN8001	30 seconds	23:13
GAN8001	But it's an always-on device	23:13
puffandstuff	thanks	23:13
LinuxCode	ReKlipz, no its not	23:13
GAN8001	So the idea is to never turn it off.	23:13
qwerty12_N800	That c	23:13
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qwerty12_N800	soz	23:13
ReKlipz	LinuxCode: how do you figure?	23:14
penguinbait	with expr usually	23:14
johnx	LinuxCode, might want to correct wikipedia then...	23:14
puffandstuff	GAN8001, i'm planning to use maemo in automotive	23:14
LinuxCode	nand has 2000 writes	23:14
GAN8001	puffandstuff, it'll idle for about 12 days doing nothing.	23:14
LinuxCode	cant recall..actually I think it was more	23:14
GAN8001	No need to power cycle it.	23:14
johnx	LinuxCode, more like 10,000 to 100,000 I believe	23:15
johnx	then wear leveling helps that quite a bit	23:15
LinuxCode	johnx, yah	23:15
GAN8001	Though automotive temperatures are hell on batteries.	23:15
LinuxCode	standard flash is considerably less	23:15
puffandstuff	GAN8001, thanks for the information, as i said we aim to port maemo on other cpu targets targeting automotive industry	23:15
johnx	LinuxCode, what is "standard flash"?	23:15
ReKlipz	nor is faster than nand	23:15
ReKlipz	and more expensive	23:16
GAN8001	puffandstuff, then startup time is entirely irrelevant. ;)	23:16
LinuxCode	ok so "apparently" that samsung has a nand chip	23:16
GAN8001	As it's entirely dependent on the CPU.	23:16
LinuxCode	cant be arsed to check the chip specs	23:16
GAN8001	. . . and flash memory speed.	23:16
puffandstuff	GAN800, not really	23:16
LinuxCode	johnx, I cant recall	23:16
LinuxCode	it was 10.000 or so	23:16
LinuxCode	before you get degradation	23:16
ReKlipz	The endurance of NAND flash is much greater than that of NOR flash (typically 1,000,000 cycles vs. 100,000 cycles). (wikipedia)	23:16
johnx	LinuxCode, I think you might be a little confused :)	23:16
LinuxCode	its been some time before I saw the test specs	23:17
ReKlipz	gotta run, back in a few	23:17
LinuxCode	johnx, possibly	23:17
GAN8001	puffandstuff, honestly, you'd be better off looking at Debian with Hildon/Matchbox or Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded	23:17
puffandstuff	GAN800, all the application that we're using actually boots in about 5-7 seconds	23:17
GAN8001	"Maemo" doesn't port very well to other hardware at the moment.	23:17
puffandstuff	GAN8001, thanks	23:17
LinuxCode	Ive got better things to do than argue on the internet anyway	23:18
LinuxCode	hehe	23:18
GAN8001	What I'm saying, is the startup time of maemo on a 400MHz ARM will have zero resemblance to the startup time of maemo on a 1.3GHz Atom. ;)	23:18
johnx	no one's arguing but you LinuxCode :)	23:18
LinuxCode	k	23:18
LinuxCode	lol	23:18
penguinbait	depends it metalayer-crawler is running	23:18
puffandstuff	GAN8001, i agree	23:18
* LinuxCode goes to do better things		23:19
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qwerty12_N800	sheet, i just read ke-recv is oss. now come on nokia, we need mce, dsme & bme...	23:19
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johnx	qwerty12_N800, dsme is pretty thin	23:19
johnx	they'll never give you bme though	23:19
qwerty12_N800	I can dream! :p	23:20
GAN8001	Yeesh, it's like the hour-of-idiocy in here. <_<	23:21
GAN8001	mce would be nice.	23:21
* qwerty12_N800 takes gold		23:21
johnx	all I want is little documentation on wifi powersaving through /sys and I'll be happy	23:22
GAN8001	Hehe	23:22
GAN8001	It's the small wishes that kill you. ;)	23:22
johnx	I think Nokia might actually be able to do that though	23:23
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johnx	it's a public interface, and the code that controls it is in cx3110x	23:23
GAN8001	You'd think Nokia could add a little 12/24 hour switch in the settings, too	23:23
* qwerty12_N800 really really wants docs on /dev/mtd1 ;)		23:23
GAN8001	But you know how it is. :P	23:24
summatusmentis	penguinbait's KDE isn't in the extra's repo, is it?	23:24
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johnx	summatusmentis, nope, it's on internettablettalk.com/forums	23:25
qwerty12_N800	I was reading that wiki page on editing the locales, i'm sure it would work but I have no need for 24h.	23:25
summatusmentis	johnx: yep, I'm looking at that page	23:25
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ReKlipz	the tech specs for the n810 are confusing, is it telling me that i can use a microsd card directly, or that I can, but only with a minisd adapter (if thats the case, then why put it on there?)	23:26
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johnx	only with a mini-sd adapter	23:27
johnx	so that people realize that adapters exist	23:27
ReKlipz	ok, so in reality i need a minisd card	23:27
ReKlipz	or a micro, but will need an adapter	23:27
johnx	yes	23:27
johnx	but lots of micros come with mini and full adapters	23:27
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* qwerty12_N800 just found repo with maemo boost libraries, w00t, time to start running a lot of dpkg's tommorow...		23:30
summatusmentis	johnx: and the deb that he provides to clone it, should close my entire system to SD ?	23:31
summatusmentis	(before installing kde)	23:31
johnx	I have no experience with that	23:31
penguinbait	whats up sum?	23:31
summatusmentis	your .deb that you provide to clone my rootfs should clone everything to SD	23:31
summatusmentis	and then I can install KDE on top of that	23:32
penguinbait	it will clone running flash to SD	23:32
summatusmentis	right	23:32
penguinbait	yes everything	23:32
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summatusmentis	am I reading the KDE thread right? will it fail if I've already installed third party stuff?	23:32
summatusmentis	or anything beyond factory settings	23:32
penguinbait	if you have 2GB card, and lots of software installed the KDE installer will fail	23:33
summatusmentis	well, not lots, but some	23:33
penguinbait	after clone is complete you need like 1350MB free to install KDE	23:33
penguinbait	you could clone it and remove software on the cloned partition if it wont fit, it will still all be available if you bot to flash	23:34
summatusmentis	oh, ok	23:35
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qwerty12_N800	Well, remember me asking for dsp patch? I found it... http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-January/013604.html .I'll add it into my kernel tommorow...	23:42
GAN8001	qwerty12_N800's frankenkernel	23:45
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skibur	Is Diablo any good?	23:46
qwerty12_N800	Browser's worse	23:46
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* qwerty12_N800 is seriously tempted to grab Bundyo's opera for os2008		23:46
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Veggen	qwerty: worse than current OS2008 browser?	23:47
summatusmentis	does the map app that comes factory installled store it's map data on the internal sd card?	23:47
GAN8001	Keep in mind, it's still very beta.	23:47
GAN8001	The browser isn't done being worked on.	23:48
GAN8001	Yes, summatusmentis.	23:48
qwerty12_N800	browserd idea sucks though. that's still probably gonna be in final	23:48
GAN8001	skibur, Diablo is a big improvement over Chinook for what it is.	23:48
qwerty12_N800	Veggen, yes atm	23:48
GAN8001	qwerty12_N800, do you really think you're qualified to decide that. :P	23:48
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Veggen	hmm. I'll resist the temptation to do an unofficial upgrade, then.	23:49
qwerty12_N800	I haven't decided anything, it's what I think.	23:49
GAN8001	But, more seriously, I haven't actually seen an explanation of the new implementation, so where are you getting your info?	23:49
fysa	he looked?	23:49
GAN8001	Where?	23:50
fysa	I take qwerty12_N800's word.	23:50
GAN8001	There's nowhere TO look.	23:50
GAN8001	It's not documented publicly yet.	23:50
skibur	some dude claims that he/she is runing it	23:50
GAN8001	Lots of people are running it	23:50
skibur	link?	23:51
GAN8001	I'm running it, qwerty12_N800 is running it	23:51
GAN8001	To?	23:51
GAN8001	You gotta figure out the password to the repo yourself.	23:51
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skibur	Diablo explanation	23:51
GAN8001	What explanation? How to run it?	23:51
skibur	well the improvements and add ons etc..	23:52
summatusmentis	penguinbait: I'm getting an "Installation file corrupted" for install-tools.deb	23:52
qwerty12_N800	check the bunch of screenies i made	23:52
GAN8001	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#Diablo	23:52
skibur	thanks	23:52
Blafasel	qwerty12_N800: Any link to those pictures?	23:52
qwerty12_N800	They are in that massive diablo thread somewhere...	23:53
GAN8001	qwerty12_N800, seriously, where's your browserd implementation documentation?	23:53
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skibur	SSU <---- Nice!	23:54
qwerty12_N800	What documentation do I need? i haven't gone into technical stuff to say it sucks. i know it crashes more and uses more memory	23:54
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GAN8001	That doesn't mean the _idea_ sucks, though. . . .	23:55
GAN8001	That just means the current implementation is buggy. :\	23:55
summatusmentis	GAN8001: :-/ I had one of the boxwave screen protectors on my 3200, and I sucked hard at putting it on :)	23:56
GAN8001	I have a guide for application somewhere on itT, summatusmentis.	23:56
GAN8001	Here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117031&postcount=18	23:57
* qwerty12_N800 is honoured to have a thread named after me : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20483		23:58
GAN8001	Extrapolating that the concept of browserd sucks from some memory consumption and crash data on a pre-release product doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially lacking a complete understanding of why it was implemented or what it does. ;)	23:59
skibur	sounds great	23:59
skibur	need to find where to start	23:59

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