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|---|---|---|
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| practisevoodoo | what on earth is up this the matrix red pill blue pill stuff? | 00:12 |
| timely | google. | 00:12 |
| practisevoodoo | yeah i got how to do it | 00:13 |
| practisevoodoo | i dont understand why | 00:13 |
| Proteous | you take the blue pill, you wake up and belive whatever you want to belive, you take the red pill and you see how far the rabbit hole goes | 00:14 |
| KotCzarny | by default only packages marked as user/foo category are installable | 00:14 |
| Proteous | or something like that | 00:14 |
| KotCzarny | from app-man of course | 00:14 |
| KotCzarny | apt-get has no such problems | 00:14 |
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| x1alpha | qwerty12_N800 : doesnt a 4" display hurt your eyes ?! | 00:27 |
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| * unixSnob just discovered that the browser downloader is lousy | 00:29 | |
| unixSnob | So I'm trying to download a 600MB file, and halfway through the file is simply gone from the downloads window | 00:30 |
| forge | :) | 00:30 |
| timely | unixSnob: where are you trying to download this file? | 00:31 |
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| unixSnob | it says (no files downloading) w/ no excuse as to what happened to the file I was downloading | 00:31 |
| unixSnob | I have it set to save to my external sd card | 00:31 |
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| unixSnob | (on an n800) | 00:31 |
| unixSnob | It happened twice | 00:31 |
| timely | you could install strace and watch the browser download the file :) | 00:32 |
| unixSnob | the second time i paused the download, and left it on pause | 00:32 |
| unixSnob | then the file simply disappeared | 00:32 |
| unixSnob | I don't have the patience for that | 00:32 |
| unixSnob | I start the download, and look away | 00:32 |
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| KotCzarny | shouldn't be a problem with a local server | 00:33 |
| KotCzarny | to test | 00:33 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 00:33 |
| unixSnob | what does strace do for me? i'm not sure what good a test will do.. I've already confirmed that the download tool is a piece of shit | 00:34 |
| KotCzarny | stop cursing | 00:35 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 00:35 |
| unixSnob | The question is whether I can install a download manager plugin for this browser | 00:35 |
| unixSnob | Or if I need to try another browser | 00:35 |
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| Saviq | hi all, anyone using mobile mythtv with mythtv 0.21? | 00:37 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Dta or flashgot with curl/wget in microb would be good... | 00:37 |
| unixSnob | microb? never heard of it.. is that an alternate browser? | 00:37 |
| unixSnob | flashgot is a firefox plugin, isn't it? | 00:38 |
| denny | MicroB is the defaulkt browser on the tablet | 00:38 |
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| KotCzarny | and it's based on firefox3 | 00:38 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 00:38 |
| timely | no | 00:38 |
| Saviq | firefox3? | 00:38 |
| timely | it's based on ff3alpha1 | 00:38 |
| timely | which is not like firefox3 | 00:38 |
| KotCzarny | ok | 00:38 |
| timely | it's like ff3 minus 1 year | 00:38 |
| KotCzarny | but based on firefox | 00:38 |
| denny | is there any ETA on the new microb yet? | 00:38 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 00:38 |
| timely | denny: two years | 00:39 |
| denny | mm-hmm. | 00:39 |
| timely | maybe 23months if you wait a month :) | 00:39 |
| KotCzarny | timely: is that official ? ;) | 00:39 |
| timely | no :) | 00:39 |
| KotCzarny | good :) | 00:39 |
| KotCzarny | (or bad ;) | 00:39 |
| timely | but it's true that waiting one month decreases your 24 month wait to 23 months :) | 00:40 |
| KotCzarny | well, that depends on relativity.. | 00:40 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 00:40 |
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| timely | i can say that with relativ[e certa]i[n]ty | 00:41 |
| KotCzarny | timely: what's the chance of general extensions for firefox working in microb? | 00:41 |
| timely | w/o porting? | 00:42 |
| KotCzarny | yes | 00:42 |
| timely | if they don't have a ui? not bad | 00:42 |
| timely | if they have a ui? w/o porting? very very close to nil | 00:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | >.< | 00:42 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 00:42 |
| timely | use fennec or firefox | 00:42 |
| timely | 99% of all extensions use xul, and microb doesn't offer xul | 00:42 |
| KotCzarny | and won't in the future too? | 00:43 |
| unixSnob | so are these microb plugins something I get from garage.maemo.org? | 00:44 |
| unixSnob | I didn't see any extensions menu choice in microb | 00:45 |
| timely | KotCzarny: i can't speak for the future | 00:45 |
| KotCzarny | timely: good | 00:45 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 00:45 |
| timely | http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/ | 00:45 |
| KotCzarny | at least there is no definitive 'no' | 00:45 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 00:45 |
| timely | personally i had hoped to already include xul support | 00:45 |
| * timely shrugs | 00:45 | |
| timely | i have no control over direction | 00:46 |
| qwerty12_N800 | i also <3 the mplayer plug-in too :) | 00:46 |
| timely | ? | 00:46 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I'm just pointing out another plug-in :) | 00:46 |
| qwerty12_N800 | separate from your convo | 00:46 |
| KotCzarny | timely: is there a way to add mime-type handlers? | 00:47 |
| KotCzarny | ie. if link is audio/mp3 don't download but launch media-player | 00:47 |
| qwerty12_N800 | KotCzarny, I think that can be done already :/ | 00:48 |
| KotCzarny | qwerty: any howto? | 00:48 |
| KotCzarny | for firefox i had to use mplayer-plugin | 00:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | look at /usr/share/applications/uri-action-defaults.list | 00:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | if i understand right | 00:49 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | mplayer-plugin is available for microb too | 00:49 |
| KotCzarny | but my question was generic | 00:49 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ahh | 00:49 |
| KotCzarny | qwerty: hmm, but that's for opening after download, i think | 00:50 |
| KotCzarny | some apps can handle links by themselves | 00:51 |
| Navi | [16:39:19] <timely> maybe 23months if you wait a month :) <- Lol XD | 00:51 |
| KotCzarny | which is nice for peeking in the content | 00:51 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Ah, my bad. I think streaming video opens in default media player w/out downloading. maybe look to see how that happens? | 00:52 |
| KotCzarny | i'll try on mp3 | 00:52 |
| shapr | I got a spam recently that said "ARM on the rise" in the subject line... I thought it had something to do with my N800! | 00:53 |
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| * qwerty12_N800 just switched to glasser and breaths sigh of relief | 00:55 | |
| KotCzarny | i like nuvoclear | 00:56 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 00:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I do too but new reflash :) | 00:57 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 00:58 |
| KotCzarny | ok | 00:58 |
| KotCzarny | i was wrong | 00:58 |
| KotCzarny | clicking on mp3 opens mediaplayer | 00:58 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 00:58 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :p | 00:58 |
| KotCzarny | good :) | 00:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | -) | 00:59 |
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| * qwerty12_N800 is still unsure how to get battery information in ftd working even under diablo initfs :/ | 01:02 | |
| KotCzarny | try strace? | 01:03 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 01:03 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Don't have a binary atm | 01:04 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Unless ftd depends on testserver (which it shouldn't) to get the battery data. | 01:05 |
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| skibur | hello? | 01:20 |
| skibur | anybody using a microsoft gps-360 device with maemo mapper? | 01:20 |
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| AStorm | if it works over bluetooth, it should just work | 01:32 |
| AStorm | (after pairing, of course) | 01:32 |
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| unixSnob | I'm confused.. if MicroB is one of the firefox versions, what's the idea behind a 3rd party download for the "mozilla engine"? | 01:37 |
| unixSnob | Doesn't firefox/microb use the mozilla engine? | 01:37 |
| AStorm | huh? which download? | 01:37 |
| AStorm | Microb isn't exactly a version of Firefox | 01:38 |
| unixSnob | it's at browser.garage.maemo.org | 01:38 |
| AStorm | it's a separate UI for Gecko | 01:38 |
| unixSnob | Someone mentioned that microb was ff3, alpha1 | 01:38 |
| unixSnob | what's a separate ui for gecko? microb? | 01:39 |
| * unixSnob doesn't know what gecko is either | 01:39 | |
| AStorm | .... | 01:39 |
| AStorm | Gecko is the page renderer | 01:39 |
| AStorm | the main library (there is Necko, network layer, NSPR, security lib and others) | 01:39 |
| unixSnob | those are the components for microb? | 01:41 |
| AStorm | yes, and firefox, and seamonkey, and thunderbird, and sunbird | 01:42 |
| KotCzarny | and some other | 01:42 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 01:42 |
| AStorm | ya | 01:42 |
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| AStorm | like that page editor | 01:42 |
| AStorm | and chatzilla ;P | 01:43 |
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| unixSnob | So if I switch to the "mozilla engine", what am I giving up from microb? | 01:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | MicroB is mozilla. | 01:44 |
| KotCzarny | is not | 01:45 |
| AStorm | is not | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | -based | 01:45 |
| AStorm | nope | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | My fingers are tired. | 01:45 |
| AStorm | it's Gecko-based | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | The correct term is mozilla-based. ;) | 01:45 |
| AStorm | unixSnob: you don't switch | 01:45 |
| AStorm | it should be an update | 01:45 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles: nope | 01:46 |
| unixSnob | microb = ff3 alpha1, but != mozilla? confusing | 01:46 |
| AStorm | mozilla-based = from mozilla.org | 01:46 |
| AStorm | unixSnob: no, it's not ff3 alpha1 | 01:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:MicroB | 01:46 |
| AStorm | just the same version of Gecko | 01:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, that's incorrect. | 01:46 |
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| AStorm | GeneralAntilles: wikipedia, yeah, sure | 01:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gecko-based browsers are "mozilla-based" | 01:46 |
| AStorm | WRONG. | 01:46 |
| AStorm | ask mozilla guys, thank you | 01:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Look at the source. <_< | 01:46 |
| AStorm | :-) | 01:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | AStorm, what's the name of the maemo browser? | 01:47 |
| AStorm | MicroB | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Mozilla based browser for maemo" | 01:48 |
| AStorm | nope | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes it is. | 01:48 |
| AStorm | the name is MicroB | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, it's not. | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | The ENGINE is MicroB | 01:48 |
| * unixSnob is simply going to upgrade to the "mozilla engine" blindly, in hopes of improved download management | 01:48 | |
| GeneralAntilles | The whole browser is "Mozilla based browser for maemo" | 01:48 |
| AStorm | engine is Gecko, sorry :-) | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/ | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | AStorm, what are you, trolling? | 01:48 |
| AStorm | blah blah, blah and blah | 01:48 |
| AStorm | it uses Gecko directly | 01:48 |
| timely | microb is a codename for the engine | 01:48 |
| AStorm | not patched Gecko, or modded Gecko | 01:49 |
| timely | microb is a hacked gecko | 01:49 |
| AStorm | reduced Gecko used for Minimo | 01:49 |
| AStorm | :-) | 01:49 |
| timely | calling it gecko is unfair to gecko | 01:49 |
| AStorm | not really | 01:49 |
| timely | um... | 01:49 |
| AStorm | it is Gecko, but minimo variant | 01:49 |
| * timely is a gecko dev | 01:49 | |
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| KotCzarny | :) | 01:49 |
| KotCzarny | ok | 01:49 |
| unixSnob | damn.. wouldn't let me install the mozilla engine.. says incompatible installation. I just upgraded maemo a few weeks ago | 01:49 |
| * timely is also fairly responsible for the name requirements | 01:49 | |
| KotCzarny | we've got the source | 01:49 |
| AStorm | fun | 01:49 |
| KotCzarny | timely: what sentence is correct | 01:49 |
| acydlord | the autorotate installer package doesnt like me | 01:49 |
| KotCzarny | about mozilla/firefox/gecko basedness | 01:50 |
| timely | officially Mozilla based browser for maemo | 01:50 |
| AStorm | does it use any Mozilla code? | 01:50 |
| timely | w/ microb being the name of the engine, and that it's a gecko derivative | 01:50 |
| timely | AStorm: certainly | 01:50 |
| AStorm | as in Code of Mozilla | 01:50 |
| timely | but it isn't pure | 01:50 |
| timely | it's adulturated | 01:50 |
| timely | and stale | 01:50 |
| AStorm | well, the name is funny | 01:50 |
| AStorm | the UI isn't XUL | 01:50 |
| Navi | timely, oh yeah | 01:51 |
| AStorm | the engine isn't Gecko | 01:51 |
| Navi | That's a funny name for a browser :P | 01:51 |
| acydlord | does anyone have a recent sources.list since gronmayer is down? | 01:51 |
| AStorm | yet it's "Mozilla based" | 01:51 |
| AStorm | :> | 01:51 |
| * unixSnob thinks somone should draw a picture of all this | 01:51 | |
| timely | AStorm: camino is mozilla based | 01:51 |
| timely | it doesn't use xul either | 01:51 |
| AStorm | hmmhmm | 01:51 |
| timely | although camino at least supports it (kinda0 | 01:51 |
| AStorm | ok, now, gimme Firefox Mobile | 01:51 |
| AStorm | any dates for that? | 01:51 |
| timely | +2years :) | 01:51 |
| acydlord | actually there is a firefox mobile in the repos | 01:52 |
| acydlord | it's called fennec | 01:52 |
| timely | fennec's more of a prototype | 01:52 |
| acydlord | true | 01:52 |
| AStorm | hm | 01:52 |
| KotCzarny | working prototype? | 01:52 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 01:52 |
| AStorm | working prototypes are good | 01:52 |
| acydlord | microb was a prototype too :p | 01:52 |
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| AStorm | buggy prototype based on leaky version of Gecko | 01:53 |
| AStorm | :> | 01:53 |
| acydlord | that's inferring that there are non leaky versions of gecko | 01:54 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 01:54 |
| Navi | acydlord, ooh :D | 01:54 |
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| Navi | zing! | 01:54 |
| acydlord | lol | 01:54 |
| AStorm | acydlord: well, 20080512 hasn't leaked anything except 3 here yet | 01:55 |
| AStorm | these 3 objects are from addon manager | 01:55 |
| AStorm | so, light :> | 01:55 |
| unixSnob | so what's the name of the whole browser, which contains microb? | 02:00 |
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| unixSnob | ah.. just read the wiki.. there is no name for it apparently | 02:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Mozilla based broswer for maemo" | 02:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | People just call the whole browser MicroB, though. | 02:02 |
| timely | well, the browser host is basically "tablet-browser-ui" | 02:02 |
| timely | or just "web" | 02:02 |
| timely | but it can host any number of browser engines | 02:03 |
| timely | in diablo, the host will actually be browserd instead of browser if you want to talk about unix processes | 02:03 |
| timely | but that's another story | 02:03 |
| KotCzarny | mm, having links2 browser as an actual option :) | 02:05 |
| unixSnob | someone recommended flashgot earlier (since i need a decent download manager), but flashgot does not appear at garage.maemo.org.. or any download manager for that matter | 02:05 |
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| KotCzarny | timely: how about 'download with ..' option? | 02:06 |
| KotCzarny | beside open/save/cancel | 02:06 |
| KotCzarny | and having a list of apps | 02:07 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 02:07 |
| timely | .... | 02:07 |
| timely | downloading requires credentials | 02:07 |
| timely | credentials aren't portable | 02:07 |
| KotCzarny | sometimes, yes | 02:08 |
| timely | there's already a copy link location for the cases where you don't need credentials | 02:08 |
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| KotCzarny | but then again there are variables | 02:08 |
| KotCzarny | %U for user etc | 02:08 |
| KotCzarny | that could be used in actual cmd line | 02:08 |
| timely | eh? | 02:08 |
| unixSnob | yeah, downloading files from sun.com is hell. I have to login to get to the webpage, then some kind of authentication goes on for each file donwload, because it breaks wget | 02:09 |
| KotCzarny | just a theoretical | 02:09 |
| KotCzarny | browser would provide some variables for user | 02:09 |
| unixSnob | I need an integrated download manager that can handle the credentials | 02:09 |
| timely | unixSnob: i've used wget to grab files from sun.com | 02:10 |
| KotCzarny | like user (%U) pass (%P) target dir (%D) file name (%F) | 02:10 |
| timely | KotCzarny: cookie, httpauthrealm, ... | 02:10 |
| unixSnob | timely: me too, but it requires a script | 02:10 |
| KotCzarny | and user could prepare list of apps using those variables | 02:10 |
| KotCzarny | timely that could be in %C, %H | 02:10 |
| unixSnob | and for some reason, maemo doesn't have wget | 02:10 |
| timely | doesn't have or doesn't ship? | 02:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | unixSnob, apt-get install wget | 02:11 |
| timely | and did you verify curl wasn't available? | 02:11 |
| timely | some systems prefer curl, just to be annoying | 02:11 |
| unixSnob | ty GeneralAntilles | 02:11 |
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| unixSnob | how do I get root? if I enter 'su - root' I get su: applet requires root privleges | 02:15 |
| unixSnob | ah, sudo | 02:15 |
| unixSnob | what's the password/ | 02:15 |
| KotCzarny | empty | 02:15 |
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| unixSnob | it seemed to take empty, but then I do a whoami, and response is "user" | 02:17 |
| unixSnob | sudo su - root should leave me in a root shell | 02:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Install easyroot | 02:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | type: root | 02:17 |
| acydlord | or sudo gainroot - | 02:18 |
| KotCzarny | or ssh root@0 | 02:19 |
| unixSnob | "Enable RD mode if you want to break your device" <= response to sudo gainroot - | 02:20 |
| unixSnob | and it leaves me as a user | 02:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Install easyroot | 02:20 |
| KotCzarny | install ssh-server | 02:20 |
| timely | capture-root ;-) | 02:20 |
| unixSnob | i need to be root to install easyroot, don't I? | 02:20 |
| timely | but easyroot sounds best | 02:20 |
| timely | no | 02:20 |
| timely | use application manager | 02:20 |
| timely | like everyone else :) | 02:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | nitapps.com | 02:20 |
| unixSnob | k | 02:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Add their repository or download the deb | 02:20 |
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| unixSnob | nice.. finally got root, and apt-getting wget | 02:27 |
| unixSnob | timely - is curl better for accessing sun.com downloads? | 02:31 |
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| timely | i don't think one is better | 02:41 |
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| unixSnob | well wget is pretty rough.. it requires a separate script to handle the authentication for sun.com | 02:42 |
| unixSnob | So I'll try curl | 02:42 |
| unixSnob | so far I have found libCurl for maemo, but not a separate app | 02:43 |
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| unixSnob | This chart makes curl look better than wget => http://curl.haxx.se/docs/comparison-table.html | 02:43 |
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| rm_you | I love the way the world is going with internet :P | 02:48 |
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| n8k`d|elibom | Is connecting to the net via Bluetooth out of the question with Vista? | 02:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | You want #vista | 02:53 |
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| n8k`d|elibom | Using the n800 *shrugs* | 02:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, you want to connect to a Vista box to get internet on the N800? | 02:54 |
| n8k`d|elibom | Aye. :P | 02:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | You shoulda said that then. :P ;) | 02:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Install maemo-pan | 02:54 |
| unixSnob | hmm.. seems the default repository of maemo.org/extras is only a fraction of maemo.org offerings.. I see a maemo.org/pool - but adding it to the repository seems non-trivial | 02:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then set up a PAN network on the Vista machine. | 02:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should work. | 02:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Although I don't recall whether there's a phone/computer issue with PAN support right now. | 02:55 |
| n8k`d|elibom | alright *begins looking* | 02:55 |
| unixSnob | Now I get "some catalogs unavailable". how do I add the maemo.org pool catalog? | 02:55 |
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| unixSnob | the full path looks like this http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo3.2/free/binary/curl_7.15.5-1osso1_armel.deb | 02:58 |
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| rafl | where to find the config file for the x server? | 03:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Think we should resolve this as WONTFIX? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2267 | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | What with the mediawiki and all. | 04:13 |
| KotCzarny | code in [code] shouldn't get parsed in any way | 04:15 |
| KotCzarny | maybe except htmlization of some chars | 04:15 |
| KotCzarny | it's the code dammit. | 04:15 |
| KotCzarny | don't touch the code. etc | 04:15 |
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| unixSnob | Suppose I know the full path of a deb file that I want to install (http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo3.2/free/binary/curl_7.15.5-1osso1_armel.deb)... how do I add the relevent catalog/repository so apt-get finds the package, along w/ deps? | 05:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | just wget it? | 05:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | then dpkg -i | 05:07 |
| unixSnob | I know that would get it started.. then it would start looking for dependancies, right? If I can add it to the catalog, then I figure it'll find the deps | 05:08 |
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| unixSnob | well I got lucky.. did't ask for any missing dependancies | 05:36 |
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| rm_you | johnx: you still don't seem to be here. | 05:39 |
| rm_you | it's very depressing | 05:39 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 05:39 |
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| Navi | Jaffa, ping | 05:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What are you, kidding? | 05:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's 4 in the morning over there. :P | 05:58 |
| unixSnob | what's version 2.2007.53-3? Chinook? | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | 51-3 | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | is chinook | 06:00 |
| unixSnob | thanks | 06:00 |
| infobot | gern geschehen, unixSnob | 06:00 |
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| skibur | ? | 06:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | infobot now responds without a trigger. . . . | 06:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | infobot, go kill yourself. | 06:09 |
| KotCzarny | ga: who owns infobot? | 06:09 |
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| KotCzarny | and why it's a person which is never here? | 06:10 |
| tank-man | infobot, what's my name!? | 06:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | infobot, you're a useless, heaping, pile of trash. | 06:12 |
| infobot | I know you are but what am I? | 06:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | A 2nd grader. | 06:12 |
| megabyte405_ | whoah, it can spit back grade school retorts | 06:12 |
| megabyte405_ | impressive | 06:12 |
| KotCzarny | it's just stupid to leave a bot running without supervision.. | 06:13 |
| KotCzarny | and irritating | 06:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | I miss _Monkey | 06:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | at least he was personable. | 06:15 |
| rm_you | i thought infobot was supposed to be useful | 06:16 |
| rm_you | doesn't he have some sort of... | 06:16 |
| rm_you | !infobot debian | 06:16 |
| rm_you | !debian | 06:16 |
| rm_you | infobot debian | 06:16 |
| infobot | http://www.debian.org. See http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/index.en.html#contents | 06:16 |
| rm_you | infobot ukmp | 06:17 |
| KotCzarny | rm_you: now it's getting retarded | 06:17 |
| KotCzarny | and lagged | 06:17 |
| rm_you | hrm | 06:17 |
| rm_you | i thought he had some sort of maemo-wiki tie-in | 06:17 |
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| * unixSnob would like to grab this cheap battery for backup power => http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=204290527 - but suspects the NIT will overdraw it | 06:31 | |
| KotCzarny | 1A at 5V is ~5W | 06:32 |
| KotCzarny | tech specs list: Output - 20 watts = 3 minutes; 16 watt = continuous | 06:32 |
| KotCzarny | so you should be fine | 06:32 |
| KotCzarny | or not | 06:33 |
| KotCzarny | they also list: USB - 5V DC (250mA) | 06:33 |
| KotCzarny | person that prepared that listing is clueless | 06:33 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody want to try and reproduce this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2702 | 06:34 |
| unixSnob | KotCzarny: I suspect the USB port is has some extra electronics that can't take the same output that the AC output can | 06:36 |
| tank-man | nasty bug if its reproducable | 06:36 |
| AStorm | KotCzarny: not exactly clueless | 06:37 |
| unixSnob | USB compliance means <= 500mA | 06:37 |
| AStorm | nope | 06:37 |
| AStorm | 100 mA for low power | 06:37 |
| AStorm | (no negotiation) | 06:37 |
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| AStorm | but then, they draw 300mA @ 9.5V | 06:37 |
| AStorm | 250 mA could only be a drawback of their DC/DC converter | 06:38 |
| unixSnob | Most USB hubs will supply 500mA, and they are still within USB specs | 06:38 |
| KotCzarny | still, that price suggests this battery is old | 06:38 |
| unixSnob | that's 500mA per port | 06:38 |
| AStorm | unixSnob: 500 mA is actually required by Full USB spec | 06:38 |
| KotCzarny | and they want to clear their warehouse | 06:38 |
| AStorm | well, 1200 mAh NiMH is replacable | 06:39 |
| AStorm | oh wait, it's 9V NiMH? | 06:39 |
| KotCzarny | depends on cells used | 06:39 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:39 |
| AStorm | might be hard to find | 06:39 |
| rm_you | i just want to walk around with a backpack full of some sort of battery | 06:39 |
| rm_you | be it a car battery or a bunch of cells | 06:39 |
| AStorm | ;> | 06:39 |
| AStorm | I'm building such a device, got almost everything ready | 06:40 |
| KotCzarny | rm_you 12V gel accus are nice | 06:40 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:40 |
| AStorm | except proper soldering iron | 06:40 |
| AStorm | KotCzarny: and very expensive | 06:40 |
| rm_you | know anywhere i can buy them like... bulk? :P | 06:40 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: have you done any tests? | 06:40 |
| rm_you | lol | 06:40 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: not really | 06:40 |
| AStorm | KotCzarny: tests like? | 06:40 |
| AStorm | it's not soldered yet | 06:40 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: what voltages/currents n8x0 needs/accepts | 06:40 |
| AStorm | ah, that | 06:40 |
| AStorm | current I haven't tested | 06:41 |
| AStorm | it can take 5,5V in w/o a problem | 06:41 |
| AStorm | and 4,8V too | 06:41 |
| KotCzarny | how about 3.6V ? | 06:41 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:41 |
| AStorm | Not sure, don't have proper power source to test ;P | 06:42 |
| KotCzarny | 3xAA ? | 06:42 |
| KotCzarny | :P | 06:42 |
| AStorm | 3x NiMH you mean | 06:42 |
| AStorm | the problem is plug, duh | 06:42 |
| KotCzarny | nimh come in misc form factors | 06:42 |
| AStorm | not some random AA, because that is 1,5V | 06:42 |
| AStorm | 3x 1,5V is a bit more than 3,6V | 06:43 |
| KotCzarny | depends on usage | 06:43 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:43 |
| AStorm | blah blah, drops to at least 1,4V | 06:43 |
| AStorm | if it's Menelaus controlling power, then it should work even off 2,8V | 06:43 |
| AStorm | but it will be wasteful | 06:44 |
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| AStorm | maximum current drain is 800-something mA | 06:44 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 06:44 |
| KotCzarny | i think it can simply shutdown on low power | 06:44 |
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| AStorm | sorry, wrong | 06:45 |
| AStorm | 800-something is just the power usage of the device | 06:45 |
| AStorm | charging eats like to 400 mA | 06:45 |
| AStorm | so, 1A and up is nice | 06:46 |
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| AStorm | I wonder why Nokia used this weak power supply then... | 06:46 |
| KotCzarny | maybe it's not that weak | 06:47 |
| AStorm | this 800-something mA is only pulled during full usage, with BT, Wifi and both SD cards active | 06:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody want to try and reproduce this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2757 | 06:47 |
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| AStorm | and full CPU usage | 06:47 |
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| KotCzarny | i would like to scale #8 from retu to actual battery voltage | 06:47 |
| AStorm | and fully lit screen | 06:47 |
| AStorm | KotCzarny: grab a cheap multimeter, cost is about 20 PLN | 06:48 |
| KotCzarny | yeah | 06:48 |
| KotCzarny | i have one | 06:48 |
| AStorm | (well, calling that a multimeter is overstatement, but it will be accurate enough in this range) | 06:48 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: if i knew where my n800 was | 06:48 |
| rm_you | it's packed away in one of my suitecases | 06:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | First it doesn't work, now you've lost it? | 06:48 |
| rm_you | <_< | 06:48 |
| AStorm | then plug battery through it | 06:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 06:48 |
| rm_you | i'm in the process of moving | 06:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I travel with it in my POCKET. :P | 06:48 |
| rm_you | i WILL be | 06:49 |
| rm_you | but my flight isnt for a week | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 06:49 |
| rm_you | and i have a lot of stuff to carry | 06:49 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles: I guess you have huge pockets | 06:49 |
| rm_you | and i'm house-hopping like every other day | 06:49 |
| AStorm | as N810 barely fits | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, I have perfectly normal sized pockets. | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just don't wear women's pants. :P | 06:49 |
| AStorm | *stab* | 06:49 |
| KotCzarny | i carry n800 in my backpack | 06:49 |
| rm_you | AStorm: normally, i carry my n800, travel keyboard, gps, cell phone, wallet, keys, headphones and usb SD reader | 06:50 |
| rm_you | all in my pockets | 06:50 |
| KotCzarny | why do you need sd reader | 06:50 |
| KotCzarny | you have n800 | 06:50 |
| AStorm | well, the trick is I only have two of these | 06:50 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you frequently looks like he has leg tumors. | 06:50 |
| AStorm | KotCzarny: full-size SD | 06:50 |
| rm_you | so i can pull the card out of my n800 wherever i am and put stuff on it / pull stuff off it | 06:50 |
| unixSnob | GeneralAntilles: I can't reproduce.. kuz my control panel doesn't have an option to create a swap file | 06:50 |
| AStorm | so, USB reader is handy (not sure if it can run on 100 mA N810 provides on USB port) | 06:50 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: yes, adapters are tiny | 06:51 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:51 |
| rm_you | well, i have n800, so the usb SD reader is so other computers can read my SD card | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | unixSnob, Control Panel: Menu: Virtual -> Check the box. | 06:51 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: and you can simply put adapter inside n800 | 06:51 |
| AStorm | KotCzarny: down size? | 06:51 |
| rm_you | brb | 06:51 |
| AStorm | where do I get such an adapter? | 06:51 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: allegro ? | 06:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | 7th dimension, AStorm. | 06:52 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:52 |
| AStorm | rm_you: somebody doesn't have a laptop? | 06:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | From Marry Poppins. | 06:52 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles: that was weak ;P | 06:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Minus extra r | 06:52 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: he has n800 | 06:52 |
| KotCzarny | not n810 | 06:52 |
| AStorm | rm_you: and, use USB cable | 06:52 |
| AStorm | ah, I lose | 06:52 |
| rm_you | AStorm: i'm on my laptop right now :P | 06:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Laptops suck. | 06:52 |
| AStorm | I need a down-size SD to miniSD | 06:52 |
| AStorm | ;P | 06:52 |
| rm_you | and it has an SD reader in it | 06:52 |
| AStorm | may stick out of the port | 06:53 |
| rm_you | but i'm talking about for random other machines | 06:53 |
| rm_you | like any of the machines at school | 06:53 |
| AStorm | rm_you: N800 has a reader too, so... use the USB cable | 06:53 |
| KotCzarny | rm_you, n800 can act as a usb reader | 06:53 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:53 |
| KotCzarny | *an | 06:53 |
| unixSnob | GeneralAntilles: control panel does not have a "virtual" option in the menu | 06:53 |
| rm_you | yeah <_< but it does weird things when i plug it in | 06:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Are you following my steps? No. | 06:53 |
| rm_you | cause it takes away the drives | 06:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Control Panel, open the Memory item | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | tap the Virtual tap | 06:54 |
| AStorm | rm_you: yes, it does | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/tap/tab/2 | 06:54 |
| rm_you | i generally only want it to take one | 06:54 |
| rm_you | since i'm usually running things off one of them :P | 06:54 |
| AStorm | then use the other | 06:54 |
| AStorm | :> | 06:54 |
| rm_you | right | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | You should get one of jolouis's adaptors and take a flash drive with you. | 06:54 |
| rm_you | but if i plug the n800 in to usb it automatically steals both | 06:54 |
| rm_you | <_< | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Less bulk than an sd reader. | 06:55 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles: uhm, which pendrive works on 100mA? | 06:55 |
| unixSnob | GeneralAntilles: found it.. you didn't say 'memory' the first time. It's creating it.. and it's rather slow | 06:55 |
| AStorm | (most new larger ones don't) | 06:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | My SanDisk Cruzer Titanium 2GB | 06:56 |
| AStorm | anyway, a tiny battery-powered hub would be great | 06:56 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles: ah, that's not huge | 06:56 |
| AStorm | but big enough :-) | 06:56 |
| unixSnob | damn that's slow.. probably 60-80 secs to create a 16MB swap file | 06:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's creating a loopback image. | 06:56 |
| KotCzarny | ga: not true | 06:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems faster in Diablo, anyway. | 06:57 |
| KotCzarny | swapfile isn't mounted via loopback | 06:57 |
| AStorm | exactly | 06:57 |
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| AStorm | swapfile is mounted directly via swap driver | 06:57 |
| AStorm | (AKA cachefs?) | 06:57 |
| KotCzarny | but swapfile on vfat sucks | 06:57 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:57 |
| AStorm | nah, why? | 06:58 |
| AStorm | if it's contiguous, it doesn't matter which FS it's on | 06:58 |
| KotCzarny | because vfat and mmc drivers are not a best fit | 06:58 |
| KotCzarny | someone mentioned that vfat is quirky with mmc | 06:58 |
| AStorm | ext and mmc drivers aren't either | 06:58 |
| AStorm | yes, vfat and ext both hit the first few writeblocks hard | 06:59 |
| AStorm | reiser would be better (talking stable FSes) | 06:59 |
| AStorm | although journalling, meh, not that good too | 06:59 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: doesn't matter with wear levelling | 06:59 |
| AStorm | does matter | 06:59 |
| KotCzarny | not that much | 06:59 |
| AStorm | it limits performance | 06:59 |
| AStorm | if you make a write, you have to rewrite the whole block | 07:00 |
| KotCzarny | yes, i know | 07:00 |
| AStorm | thus, you get at least two blocks (allocation tables) | 07:00 |
| AStorm | B-tree FSes are more spread out | 07:01 |
| AStorm | and usually tree is closer to files | 07:01 |
| AStorm | although you'd need copy-on-write to be fully efficient (or a spread-out journal) | 07:01 |
| KotCzarny | doesn't matter with flash | 07:01 |
| AStorm | does matter | 07:01 |
| KotCzarny | not that much | 07:02 |
| AStorm | number of writeblocks | 07:02 |
| AStorm | esp. with slower flash | 07:02 |
| KotCzarny | but no seek hit | 07:02 |
| AStorm | and the writeblocks are becoming larger | 07:02 |
| AStorm | no seek, but lowers transfer a lot | 07:02 |
| AStorm | halves actually | 07:02 |
| AStorm | (or worse) | 07:02 |
| KotCzarny | but reads are fast | 07:02 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:02 |
| AStorm | yes | 07:02 |
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| AStorm | anyway, we need an FS optimized for flash disks | 07:03 |
| AStorm | (i.e. btrfs) | 07:03 |
| KotCzarny | you can always try having journal on another card | 07:03 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 07:03 |
| unixSnob | GeneralAntilles: I could not repeat the issue on an n800. No trash left behind on either mmc chip | 07:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Excellent, thanks unixSnob. | 07:03 |
| AStorm | KotCzarny: that won't help | 07:04 |
| AStorm | the problem is wear then ;) | 07:04 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: nope, it will help | 07:04 |
| AStorm | if it were that easy, you could just use RAID0 | 07:04 |
| KotCzarny | remember that you write to journal too on most write operations | 07:04 |
| AStorm | the trick is placing all writes close together | 07:04 |
| AStorm | you don't care too much about fragmentation on flash drives | 07:05 |
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| KotCzarny | astorm: or cloning whole blocks? | 07:05 |
| AStorm | too slow | 07:05 |
| AStorm | think 400 * 1MB blocks | 07:06 |
| AStorm | add a write to the first block every few, you'll see how it impacts performance | 07:06 |
| KotCzarny | bigger caches would be nice | 07:07 |
| AStorm | the best case is only one write to the allocation table | 07:07 |
| KotCzarny | if we had the mem | 07:07 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 07:07 |
| KotCzarny | btw. is write caching on for mmc on maemo? | 07:07 |
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| AStorm | I guess not. | 07:07 |
| AStorm | check dmesg | 07:07 |
| KotCzarny | what should i look for? | 07:08 |
| AStorm | for write-through and write-back | 07:08 |
| AStorm | omg, JSP *sucks* | 07:09 |
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| AStorm | bonus points for having to set up some Tomcat server | 07:10 |
| AStorm | argh! | 07:10 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:10 |
| AStorm | also, I don't seem to have javax.servlet... or NetBeans (suck) isn't reading that | 07:11 |
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| blahdeblah-lap | Hi. Is the package osso-software-version important? To upgrade my packages, it says i must remove this. Running an N800 on OS2008. | 07:12 |
| AStorm | No, I do, suck isn't reading it. | 07:12 |
| AStorm | blahdeblah-lap: you can hack around it | 07:12 |
| blahdeblah-lap | AStorm: how? | 07:12 |
| AStorm | it is just the control panel applet though | 07:13 |
| blahdeblah-lap | what do you mean? | 07:13 |
| AStorm | blahdeblah-lap: in /var/cache/apt/something... | 07:13 |
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| Italodance | guys | 07:48 |
| Italodance | The N900 will come with support for Quad-band GSM, HSDPA, WiMAX, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. | 07:48 |
| Italodance | is it really true? | 07:48 |
| Italodance | :'''( | 07:48 |
| johnx | no | 07:48 |
| Italodance | i wish my n800 | 07:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 07:48 |
| Italodance | hi johnx | 07:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hi, johnx. | 07:48 |
| johnx | hi all | 07:48 |
| Italodance | N900 can insert a simcard? | 07:48 |
| KotCzarny | can i has n900 ? | 07:49 |
| Italodance | http://mivadika.com/forum/communications/1562-10-things-about-nokia-s-iphone.html | 07:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Italodance, nobody but Nokia knows a damn thing about the N900. | 07:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's a fake article. | 07:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not based on any really information | 07:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's what the stupid author wants. | 07:49 |
| KotCzarny | 'real' | 07:49 |
| Italodance | READ: For sure it will offer Quad-band GSM at 850/900/1800/1900Mhz and the European 2100Mhz for 3G HSDPA, however we hope for support of all 3G and GSM bands in a single device, more specifically we hope for support of Quad-Band GSM along with Quad-Band 3G HSDPA offering support for 850/1700/1900/2100Mhz. (2100Mhz is for Europe and most of the world, 850/1900Mhz is AT&T's bands in the USA and 1700Mhz is the upcoming 3G band for T-Mobile USA) | 07:49 |
| Italodance | The phone will also offer Wi-Fi (probably 802.11b/g) Bluetooth and GPS. | 07:49 |
| Italodance | For the WiMax we beleive is too soon but if they offer it is great addition and more than welcome! | 07:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's fake. | 07:49 |
| Italodance | oh | 07:50 |
| Stskeeps | i would be scared how much battery such a n8x0 would take | 07:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 07:50 |
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| Italodance | ummm http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/internet-tablets/samsung-q1-ultra/ | 07:56 |
| johnx | that's been out for a long time | 07:57 |
| Italodance | johnx when? | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, how do I make a bugzilla search for showing all bugs with new comments from the last 2 days? The "Bug Changes" field doesn't seem to have a Comments item. | 07:57 |
| johnx | Italodance, May 2007 | 07:58 |
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| Navi | kaboom! | 08:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You cleaning your toilet, Navi? | 08:06 |
| Navi | No | 08:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes you are. | 08:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't lie. | 08:09 |
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| timely | GeneralAntilles: do you really need commentS? | 08:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Of course. | 08:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want to read bugzilla like a forum. :P | 08:17 |
| timely | if you select nothing you'll get all bugs changed in the last 2 days | 08:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, really? Cool. | 08:18 |
| timely | don't forget to stick the '2' in the other field of course... | 08:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Beautiful | 08:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thanks | 08:19 |
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| timely | btw, have you ever clicked the help link? | 08:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | On the front page? | 08:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | This? https://bugs.maemo.org/page.cgi?id=quicksearch.html | 08:20 |
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| timely | https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?help=1 | 08:23 |
| timely | not sure where the help link is, but i trust it's somewhere... | 08:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | The "Give me some help (reloads page.)" at the top here: https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi | 08:24 |
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| timely | yeah... | 08:27 |
| timely | that requires js which i typically disable :) | 08:27 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 08:27 |
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| KotCzarny | stupid | 08:27 |
| KotCzarny | overcomplication | 08:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody ought to get rid of that period. . . . | 08:27 |
| timely | hrm, it is misplaced, oh well | 08:28 |
| KotCzarny | somebody should learn about target=_blank | 08:28 |
| KotCzarny | and drop js | 08:28 |
| Navi | targets don't conform to xhtml 1.1 strict and later | 08:32 |
| KotCzarny | broken js is worse than nonconformance to xhtml strict | 08:32 |
| Navi | broken anything is bad | 08:33 |
| timely | KotCzarny: where would you use _blank? | 08:34 |
| Navi | within the <a> tag | 08:34 |
| timely | whose a tag, and why? | 08:34 |
| KotCzarny | darn, my connection is dying | 08:35 |
| Navi | good | 08:35 |
| Navi | timely, http://www.htmlcodetutorial.com/linking/_A_TARGET_95y98y108y97y110y107y.html | 08:35 |
| timely | Navi: i know html | 08:36 |
| Navi | No you don't | 08:36 |
| timely | i just don't understand who wants to actually use that feature | 08:36 |
| Navi | Yeah, that link shows you :P | 08:36 |
| KotCzarny | timely: why is there js for a help link used? | 08:36 |
| timely | ? | 08:36 |
| Navi | You don't know html, you only do work on a layout engine, after all | 08:36 |
| timely | the help version requires data that isn't sent w/ the normal version of the page | 08:37 |
| timely | it could be rewritten to dynamically retrieve all that data, but it'd be moderately painful | 08:37 |
| Navi | Meh, it's better you don't know how to use target="_blank" anyways :P | 08:37 |
| KotCzarny | where is that help link anyway? | 08:37 |
| timely | :) | 08:37 |
| timely | https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=advanced | 08:38 |
| timely | near the top (if you have js enabled) i guess | 08:38 |
| KotCzarny | on the page | 08:38 |
| timely | use find? | 08:38 |
| KotCzarny | i have js enabled, but i don't see anything | 08:38 |
| Navi | Oh | 08:38 |
| Navi | I didn't read your sentence correctly | 08:38 |
| KotCzarny | (that looks like a help button) | 08:38 |
| Navi | Morons love target="_blank" | 08:39 |
| Navi | It's easier than setting up something proper | 08:39 |
| sxpert | target is pretty useless | 08:39 |
| sxpert | (as most frames are) | 08:40 |
| * timely shrugs | 08:40 | |
| KotCzarny | ok, at what page i should look for that help link? | 08:40 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:40 |
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| KotCzarny | ok, found it | 08:41 |
| Navi | sxpert, every beginning html writer knows that frames are awesome | 08:42 |
| sxpert | hahaha | 08:42 |
| KotCzarny | ok, now what is the use of: | 08:43 |
| KotCzarny | <script type="text/javascript"> <!-- | 08:43 |
| KotCzarny | document.write("<p><a href='query.cgi?help=1&format=advanced'>Give me some help</a> (reloads page.)</p>"); | 08:43 |
| KotCzarny | // --> | 08:43 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:43 |
| KotCzarny | over plain html, that is | 08:44 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:44 |
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| sxpert | how about creating a hidden class and changing the "visiblility" | 08:45 |
| KotCzarny | but it doesn't do anything other than printing some string | 08:46 |
| KotCzarny | no ifs, no nothing | 08:46 |
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| timely | the page doesn't work w/o js enabled | 08:53 |
| timely | so providing a link to a page that won't work is stupid | 08:53 |
| KotCzarny | ok, that can be a reason | 08:53 |
| timely | hence you protect it | 08:53 |
| timely | "click me, reloads page, results in broken page" | 08:54 |
| timely | yeah. that's a good idea. | 08:54 |
| KotCzarny | but wouldn't it be wiser to use <divs> hidden by js ? | 08:54 |
| timely | no | 08:54 |
| timely | noscript and friends would show them | 08:54 |
| KotCzarny | that would help for people without js | 08:54 |
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| timely | oh... | 08:55 |
| KotCzarny | and that's the point | 08:55 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:55 |
| timely | you mean on the other page | 08:55 |
| timely | welli'm late | 08:55 |
| timely | you're free to try to redesign the advanced page | 08:55 |
| timely | good luck. | 08:55 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:55 |
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| KotCzarny | user can modify it? | 08:55 |
| timely | just start by rewriting the html you get | 08:56 |
| timely | then i'll show you how to get the tmpl that generates it | 08:56 |
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| KotCzarny | hmm | 08:56 |
| KotCzarny | i will do it if i don't forget about it :) | 08:57 |
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| KotCzarny | offtopic: http://www.partshelf.com/lacrbc900.html | 09:00 |
| KotCzarny | nice charger | 09:00 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:00 |
| kulve | http://www.arm.com/products/esd/openmax_home.html | 09:02 |
| kulve | I wonder how powerful those codecs are.. | 09:02 |
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| mysc | hi all. anyone know of a place that sells microA <--> female A dongle? | 09:13 |
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| tank-man | mysc, if thats what i think it is, circut city/the source has it | 09:42 |
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| mysc | tank, it's a usb dongle. microA to female A | 10:08 |
| johnx | mysc, there was some thread on internettablettalk.com/forums about it I thought... | 10:08 |
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| mysc | yeah, i've looked. the best i've found is micro A to male A (so you need a gender changer) | 10:10 |
| mysc | there's also micro B to female A (which i don't quite understand) | 10:10 |
| johnx | for the n800 | 10:11 |
| mysc | the n800 is mini, i thought | 10:11 |
| johnx | ah, sorry | 10:11 |
| johnx | my mistake | 10:11 |
| johnx | micro b would work for you too | 10:11 |
| johnx | but you'd have to change to host mode in software | 10:12 |
| mysc | id have to change sw though | 10:12 |
| mysc | yeh | 10:12 |
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| mysc | there is a micro A to female A but it's a company in HK and you have to buy 1000 :) | 10:16 |
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| RahimTux | hi | 10:39 |
| RahimTux | Is there a deb/deb-src repository available for the contents of garage.maemo.org? | 10:41 |
| kulve | no | 10:42 |
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| RahimTux | Might it be possible to setup one? | 10:43 |
| RahimTux | It would make things easier. | 10:43 |
| johnx | you'd have to get everyone who submits a project there to also submit a buildable src debian package | 10:43 |
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| RahimTux | A build-system could generate a repository for all projects which support it. | 10:45 |
| RahimTux | Having a part of the projects available as deb repository is IMHO better than nothing. Just my 2¢... | 10:47 |
| johnx | I think the direction things are going is to have a deb-src repository for extras and extras-devel | 10:48 |
| kulve | the extras repo is similar to what your want | 10:48 |
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| RahimTux | What is necessary to add a garage project to the extra repository? Are the garage project maintainers responsible to do that or one of the maemo.org operators? | 10:54 |
| kulve | the package maintainer | 10:55 |
| johnx | garage users have to submit the project to maemo.org maintainers *I think* | 10:55 |
| RahimTux | Thanks. | 10:57 |
| * Navi yawns | 10:57 | |
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| Navi | johnx, any progress on getting hildon apps working in debian? | 11:26 |
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| RST38h | Heh, got complaints of dpad center acting as START | 11:45 |
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| hendry | the maemo wiki sucks | 12:01 |
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| hendry | spending ages trying to get sshd working after flashing chinook on | 12:02 |
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| KotCzarny | lol | 12:02 |
| KotCzarny | maybe that's because problems is of pebcak type? | 12:02 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 12:02 |
| KotCzarny | *problem | 12:02 |
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| lardman | hendry: just install it using red pill mode and it should work.... | 12:03 |
| lardman | ? | 12:03 |
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| acydlord | so, anyone alive at the moment that has an up to date /etc/apt/sources.list with most or all of the repos that they could pastebin? | 12:05 |
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| hendry | lardman: that's so UN obvious | 12:07 |
| lardman | is that what you did? | 12:07 |
| lardman | if not, add a note to the top of the wiki page | 12:08 |
| acydlord | nevermind, i'll just backup my sources.list before i reflash | 12:09 |
| lardman | acydlord: sorry, don't have N8x0 on me at, | 12:09 |
| lardman | atm | 12:09 |
| acydlord | thats alright | 12:09 |
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| acydlord | i forgot my sources list is about 2 months old, just need to fix up a few problematic repos and i should be fine | 12:10 |
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| hendry | yay found http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/openssh/ after searching | 12:14 |
| hendry | now I need to figure out how to get root | 12:14 |
| Knirch | after installing it it will prompt you to set a password for root | 12:15 |
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| Knirch | then it's as easy as ssh root@localhost | 12:15 |
| KotCzarny | ssh root@0 should work too | 12:16 |
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| Jon | hendry: out of curiosity, what version is that openssh package, is it derived from the debian one, does openssl get pulled in with it or is there an openssl already deployed in os2008, does it inherit the ssl bug? | 12:23 |
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| lardman | X-Fade: do you have a LinuxTag ticket yet? | 12:30 |
| lardman | X-Fade: I've been sent 10 to distribute | 12:30 |
| trickie | lardman: do you know if you can buy them at event? or do you *have* to preorder? | 12:32 |
| Jaffa | Navi: pong | 12:32 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:32 |
| KotCzarny | mourning | 12:32 |
| trickie | morning | 12:32 |
| lardman | trickie: you can get them at the event, just costs a bit more | 12:32 |
| trickie | lardman: k, ta | 12:32 |
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| hendry | Jon: i will check with the debian black list shortly | 12:45 |
| lardman | trickie: are you coming for sure? | 12:45 |
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| trickie | lardman: yes im booked to fly there etc | 12:48 |
| trickie | im only for the thurday and friday | 12:48 |
| RST38h | Kot: Any ideas what may grow process' VSZ to 100+MB? | 12:48 |
| KotCzarny | memleaks? | 12:48 |
| KotCzarny | bad memory management? | 12:49 |
| KotCzarny | hoarding mallocs? | 12:49 |
| RST38h | No, it is not memory leaks, it does not grow | 12:49 |
| RST38h | And Load applet shows 13MB onlyt | 12:49 |
| RST38h | Looks like some link dependencies | 12:49 |
| lardman | trickie: send me an email, I have a few tickets | 12:50 |
| lardman | likewise anyone else | 12:50 |
| lardman | I may not reply today though as I have to sit on a train for 6hrs | 12:50 |
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| KotCzarny | virtual memory usage of entire process. vm_lib + vm_exe + vm_data + vm_stack | 12:50 |
| KotCzarny | that's vsz | 12:51 |
| KotCzarny | it's not necesarily malloced then | 12:51 |
| kulve | RST38h: http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/chinook/sp-endurance/ | 12:51 |
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| KotCzarny | just some kind of we could use that much, but doesn't matter we will | 12:52 |
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| trickie | lardman: sure, sounds good | 12:53 |
| KotCzarny | rst, i may be wrong though | 12:54 |
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| lardman | trickie: Loeve, is that an umlaut? | 12:54 |
| RST38h | kulve: it's not a leak | 12:54 |
| RST38h | kulve: does not grow, just stays that way, like if I linked to 100MB of libraries | 12:55 |
| trickie | lardman: i think it may have originally, but since my family moved out to australia they haven't used one | 12:55 |
| lardman | trickie: long trip to Germany then! | 12:55 |
| kulve | RST38h: but I guess that provides some info which could show what is using what | 12:55 |
| KotCzarny | rst ldd ? :) | 12:55 |
| RST38h | possible... | 12:55 |
| trickie | trickie: nah, i live in Amsterdam ATM | 12:55 |
| trickie | pff | 12:56 |
| lardman | :) | 12:56 |
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| RST38h | Kot: is there ldd for N810? =) | 12:56 |
| lardman | trickie: done | 12:56 |
| RST38h | I have not found it | 12:56 |
| lardman | I'm off, see you chaps on Friday | 12:56 |
| trickie | lardman: cheers! | 12:56 |
| KotCzarny | rst: there is one in sb | 12:56 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 12:56 |
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| RST38h | I am at work and my sb is at home =) | 12:56 |
| KotCzarny | you put your servers to sleep when you leave home? | 12:56 |
| KotCzarny | O.o | 12:56 |
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| RST38h | I do not run servers at home =) | 12:57 |
| KotCzarny | ok, home-servers | 12:57 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 12:57 |
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| hendry | Jon: Not blacklisted | 12:58 |
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| RST38h | Kot: hey, maybe you can download ines-maemo and fmsx-maemo and run ndd on both executables? | 13:11 |
| * RST38h wonders what the hell got linked since fmsx to make a difference in cvsz | 13:12 | |
| KotCzarny | link? | 13:12 |
| RST38h | fms.komkon.org/iNES, fms.komkon.org/fMSX/ | 13:12 |
| KotCzarny | i hope they don't need crazy deps | 13:13 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 13:13 |
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| KotCzarny | hmm | 13:15 |
| KotCzarny | quite a lot libs | 13:15 |
| KotCzarny | hehe | 13:15 |
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| pupnik | RST38h: do you make your own text / menu system, or use some library for those emus? | 13:18 |
| KotCzarny | rst: http://pastebin.com/m4774f853 | 13:18 |
| KotCzarny | whole x/gtk/hildon/pango | 13:19 |
| hrw | morning | 13:19 |
| pupnik | RST38h: if you want me to demo it, please let me know - privmsg any info you want to share | 13:19 |
| KotCzarny | and cairo too | 13:19 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 13:19 |
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| trickie | hrw: morning | 13:26 |
| hrw | hi trickie | 13:29 |
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| lopz | morning | 13:44 |
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| dneary | hi | 13:47 |
| infobot | hi, dneary | 13:47 |
| dneary | any bugzilla wizards here know how to query bugzilla for "all the bugs where the assignee is me, or someone I'm watching"? | 13:48 |
| dneary | infobot: Hellp | 13:48 |
| dneary | infobot: Hello, even | 13:48 |
| hrw | hi dneary | 13:49 |
| hrw | dneary: is there a way to get login/pass to mediawiki on maemo.org? | 13:50 |
| dneary | hi hrw | 13:51 |
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| dneary | You click on "Login", and then "Register", I think | 13:51 |
| hrw | there was no login last time | 13:52 |
| hrw | no register at login page I mean | 13:52 |
| hrw | and still only 'Log in' button present | 13:53 |
| dneary | Or click "Create account" directly | 13:53 |
| dneary | That's the one :) | 13:53 |
| dneary | Needed to look at the site to refresh memory | 13:53 |
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| hrw | I will make a shot | 13:56 |
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| RST38h | back | 13:57 |
| RST38h | Kot: Thanks! | 13:57 |
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| KotCzarny | :) | 13:57 |
| RST38h | pupnik: I have my own tiny UI/gfx library, just for small applications when you do not want to use gtk/etc | 13:57 |
| hrw | dneary: http://blog.haerwu.biz/tmp/desktop12.png | 13:57 |
| RST38h | pupnik: The name is EMULib. If you want the source code, get ColEm sources (http://fms.komkon.org/ColEm) | 13:58 |
| dneary | Ah - for MediaWiki | 13:58 |
| dneary | You need to ask me :) | 13:58 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 13:58 |
| KotCzarny | isn't that what he did? | 13:58 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 13:58 |
| dneary | hrw: What username? | 13:58 |
| dneary | And what's the real name? | 13:59 |
| hrw | dneary: MarcinHrwJuszkiewicz, Marcin Juszkiewicz | 14:00 |
| RST38h | Kot: the only difference is gconf changing place...hmmm | 14:00 |
| RST38h | so it must be something I do in the code then... | 14:00 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: btw, ColEm also eats 100+MB of virtual memory, so if you feel like finding out why, please do =) | 14:01 |
| KotCzarny | rst, maybe it's just a shared libs | 14:01 |
| KotCzarny | try running 2 instances at once? | 14:02 |
| KotCzarny | if you don't run out of mem then it's something shared ;) | 14:02 |
| dneary | hrw: Is that the same username you have for garage? | 14:02 |
| hrw | dneary: so I can use garage login there? will have to test then | 14:02 |
| dneary | hrw: I need to add the account first | 14:03 |
| hrw | dneary: ok - logged on garage name 'hrw' | 14:03 |
| hrw | You are now logged in to maemo wiki as "hrw". | 14:03 |
| dneary | but once I've done that, you're good to go | 14:03 |
| pupnik | RST38h: thanks. i'll mention it. Have you tried iNES on Nokia 770 yet? | 14:03 |
| dneary | OK, you're good to log in | 14:05 |
| dneary | Do you want me to add you to the wikiadmin group | 14:05 |
| RST38h | Kot: Well, you have just run ldd - and it is identical for fmsx and ines | 14:07 |
| RST38h | fmsx does not eat 100MB | 14:07 |
| RST38h | pupnik: I have no N770 | 14:07 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Where do you want to demo/mention it anyway? | 14:08 |
| dneary | hrw: You're good to go. | 14:08 |
| RST38h | Audit Scotland's second major comparison of public sector databases has identified 36 per cent less fraud than its first attempt! | 14:09 |
| pupnik | RST38h: linuxtag, berlin | 14:11 |
| KotCzarny | 2008 | 14:11 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 14:11 |
| KotCzarny | pupnik: did you know that lhc will start in mid june ? | 14:12 |
| hrw | dneary: wikiadmin? no - normal user for now | 14:12 |
| KotCzarny | so it may be your first and last linuxtag ;) | 14:12 |
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| dneary | hrw: Too late ;) | 14:13 |
| pupnik | what is lhc? | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | large hadron collider | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | cern | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | etc. | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 14:14 |
| glass | end of the world! | 14:14 |
| glass | :) | 14:14 |
| pupnik | oh yeah the end of the world | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | well | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | end of earth | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | world will continue to exist | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 14:14 |
| pupnik | hey lets place a bet, if the world ends, i owe you 10 euro | 14:15 |
| KotCzarny | pupnik, can i have it before? | 14:15 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 14:15 |
| pupnik | we'll probably have time for a quick 'lol' in irc | 14:16 |
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| KotCzarny | but if we are unlucky nothing catastrophic will happen | 14:17 |
| RST38h | pupnik: ah | 14:18 |
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| RST38h | Cthulhu will wake up and rise | 14:18 |
| KotCzarny | well | 14:19 |
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| RST38h | REMEMBER: Cthulhu is sleeping for our sins. | 14:21 |
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| KotCzarny | s/for/in/ | 14:22 |
| RST38h | for! | 14:22 |
| KotCzarny | chicken | 14:22 |
| RST38h | In case you have not seen it: http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/vault261.html | 14:23 |
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| KotCzarny | hmm | 14:24 |
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| KotCzarny | :) | 14:25 |
| RST38h | Especially this one: http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/vault255.html | 14:26 |
| KotCzarny | http://poteflon.pl/16927 | 14:26 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 14:26 |
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| acydlord | http://xkcd.com/424/ | 14:29 |
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| KotCzarny | 'who wanna be a millionaire' http://fun.noshit.pl/DIR-2008.05.19/fnp12.jpg | 14:30 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 14:30 |
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| * RST38h will pass | 14:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary, how's the wiki reorg going? | 14:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, if that HD cam works out, thing you could use it to film some presentations? :D | 14:44 |
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| pupnik | Depends on when it arrives. I might have to return it. Otherwise sure. | 14:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Judging by the sample videos, I suspect that might be something it'd be good for. ;) | 14:51 |
| pupnik | Yes they did seem not so bad. Bad compression artefacts when panning and shaking though. | 14:51 |
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| dneary | GeneralAntilles: Still getting organised, really | 14:58 |
| KotCzarny | 'organized' ? | 14:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary, I don't really have the desire to invest time in the reorg, but I'm fairly familiar with mediawiki, so I hope I can help once things get moving on that end. | 14:59 |
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| trickie | dneary: i can help with the migration (im familiar with media wiki), i don't have heaps of time, but can certainly put an hour or two in here and there | 15:06 |
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| dneary | trickie: Great! | 15:07 |
| dneary | KotCzarny: No, organised | 15:08 |
| KotCzarny | organize Br. i Austr. zw. organise | 15:08 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 15:08 |
| KotCzarny | are you british? | 15:08 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:08 |
| dneary | KotCzarny: Irish :) | 15:08 |
| KotCzarny | ahm | 15:08 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:08 |
| trickie | dneary: im following maemo2midgard-discussion so if i see a task that i can help out on ill get in the mix | 15:08 |
| dneary | KotCzarny: Organised = deciding what to migrate, identify any tools which might help with the migration | 15:09 |
| dneary | trickie: Rocks! | 15:09 |
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| trickie | KotCzarny: organised was the original spelling | 15:09 |
| KotCzarny | dneary: i know the meaning of the word | 15:09 |
| trickie | americans saw fit to need to change it | 15:09 |
| KotCzarny | trickle: british grammar isn't consistent | 15:10 |
| dneary | KotCzarny: I assumed you were asking what needed organising, rather than questioning my spelling :) | 15:10 |
| trickie | we use 'organised' in .au also | 15:10 |
| KotCzarny | it's just that some person in history decided that or this | 15:10 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:10 |
| dneary | KotCzarny: American usage of English is illogical | 15:10 |
| trickie | KotCzarny: doesn't matter its where the english language came from | 15:10 |
| dneary | "british" grammar is actually "English" grammar | 15:10 |
| KotCzarny | us english is getting dominant | 15:11 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:11 |
| KotCzarny | because of the internet :) | 15:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo, go Noah Webster! | 15:11 |
| timeless | trickie: err... | 15:11 |
| timeless | don't go near spelling | 15:11 |
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| trickie | :) | 15:12 |
| timeless | dneary: so, did you finish mapping the world? | 15:14 |
| dneary | timeless: It's taken a back seat to the wiki migration for the next week or so | 15:14 |
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| timeless | wiki migration? :) | 15:15 |
| RST38h | Kot: Aluminum forevah! | 15:18 |
| KotCzarny | aluminum | 15:19 |
| KotCzarny | Br. i Austr. aluminium | 15:19 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 15:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm rather excited about the mediawiki move. I think it'll finally give us a GOOD central wiki for NIT/maemo stuff. Especially as the itT wiki is mostly just a horrifying abortion. | 15:19 |
| RST38h | Freaked me out when I found out - always though it was "aluminium" for everybody | 15:19 |
| KotCzarny | in .pl it's aluminium too :) | 15:20 |
| KotCzarny | and 'glin' if it's a name of element | 15:20 |
| RST38h | Should we add "nucular" to US English vocabulary? | 15:20 |
| KotCzarny | rst: nucular? | 15:20 |
| RST38h | Kot: aluminium in Russian as well | 15:20 |
| KotCzarny | dubia's dict? | 15:20 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:20 |
| RST38h | Kot: But the ore is known as kaolin | 15:20 |
| KotCzarny | ore != pure element? | 15:21 |
| RST38h | And yes, it does look like glina (which is Russian for "mud") | 15:21 |
| RST38h | No, pure element is Aluminium | 15:21 |
| * KotCzarny checks | 15:21 | |
| RST38h | Kot: YouPoles probably call it "glin" because it does come from mud | 15:21 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 15:23 |
| KotCzarny | no name origin in wikipedia | 15:23 |
| RST38h | Btw, the industrial aluminium extraction process is as close as you can get to hell | 15:26 |
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| KotCzarny | yeah, alu cans fun | 15:27 |
| KotCzarny | and no | 15:27 |
| KotCzarny | black holes are worse | 15:27 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 15:27 |
| RST38h | you have better chance of visiting hell by hanging yourself =) | 15:27 |
| KotCzarny | well | 15:28 |
| KotCzarny | if human soul is really immortal | 15:28 |
| KotCzarny | then i will visit at least black hole some day | 15:28 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 15:28 |
| * patoh would love to see what is in a black hole | 15:28 | |
| patoh | and somehow report back to prove at least one group wrong :P | 15:29 |
| patoh | than again no one would belive you | 15:29 |
| RST38h | Kot: does it bother you that you may visit that blackhole reborn as an ornate horned toad? =) | 15:29 |
| KotCzarny | not at all | 15:30 |
| KotCzarny | as i don't believe in reincarnation ;) | 15:30 |
| KotCzarny | http://webwereld.nl/articles/51099/nasa-moves-to-save-computers-from-swarming-ants.html | 15:30 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 15:30 |
| RST38h | yeh =) | 15:30 |
| KotCzarny | be afraid, be very afraid ;) | 15:30 |
| RST38h | Kit: It has started! | 15:31 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, they trying to stop us | 15:31 |
| RST38h | LHC is still dormant but IT has started! | 15:31 |
| KotCzarny | but they are too late | 15:31 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 15:31 |
| KotCzarny | rst: how do you know it's dormant | 15:31 |
| RST38h | THE END OF THE WORLD IS COMING | 15:31 |
| KotCzarny | 'cumming' ? | 15:32 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:32 |
| RST38h | Kot: true (on how do I know) | 15:32 |
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| KotCzarny | "If you open a computer, you would find a cluster of ants on the motherboard and all over. You'd get 3,000 or 4,000 ants inside and they create arcs. They'll wipe out any computer." | 15:33 |
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| KotCzarny | mm | 15:34 |
| KotCzarny | 4k ants in a pc | 15:34 |
| RST38h | 4096 | 15:34 |
| KotCzarny | i would freak out on 1 in my pc | 15:34 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:34 |
| * RST38h seen mice and mosquitoes in a PC | 15:35 | |
| RST38h | mice actually had a nest with babies | 15:35 |
| trickie | i had a laptop that had coffee spilt on it, ants got in and completly stuffed it | 15:35 |
| KotCzarny | well, 1mice != 4k ants | 15:35 |
| RST38h | Kot: nutrition wise, it may well be == | 15:36 |
| KotCzarny | s/mice/mouse | 15:36 |
| KotCzarny | rst: horror wise ants rule | 15:36 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:36 |
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| RST38h | trickie: yes, but did they arch?!? | 15:39 |
| RST38h | 'cause one of those mice arched! =) | 15:39 |
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| RST38h | (and then smelled for a few weeks, until somebody figured out where smell came from) | 15:39 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 15:39 |
| KotCzarny | few weeks? | 15:40 |
| trickie | RST38h: :) | 15:40 |
| KotCzarny | those geeks | 15:40 |
| KotCzarny | resistant to nature | 15:40 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 15:40 |
| KotCzarny | Part of the problem is that exterminators have found it nearly impossible to kill the ants. Oh, you can kill some of them - the first wave, maybe. However, there are so many more ants coming behind them, that the first wave falls dead in the insecticide and the subsequent waves merely walk on the dead bodies, keeping themselves out of the poison and safe from harm. | 15:41 |
| KotCzarny | 'huston, you have a problem' | 15:41 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 15:41 |
| RST38h | Send the marines! | 15:41 |
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| KotCzarny | hmm, *houston | 15:43 |
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| KotCzarny | P.S. look at the bright side they are not flesh eating ants or bees | 15:44 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 15:44 |
| RST38h | it is the bright side?!? | 15:45 |
| KotCzarny | in your pc, would you like 4k ants not interested in human meat or 4k bees ? | 15:45 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:45 |
| RST38h | In my PC, I would prefer to have no ants at all | 15:46 |
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| RST38h | But in an average PC in Houston, TX I would like flesh eating, fire breathing, penis burrowing ants | 15:46 |
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| RST38h | Anything that will reduce the population of that place | 15:47 |
| KotCzarny | i wonder why no one attributed it to a fidel | 15:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | <_< | 15:47 |
| KotCzarny | or to a god's revenge for dubya | 15:48 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 15:48 |
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| IR4506 | do anyone has N810 ? | 15:48 |
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| JOHNY-7 | i would like to know if N810 is a 3G | 15:49 |
| KotCzarny | no | 15:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 15:49 |
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| RST38h | Kot: No Fidel attribution - 'cause Texans *can* distinguish an ant from a Cuban | 15:50 |
| JOHNY-7 | :S | 15:50 |
| RST38h | Kot: No revenge for Dubya - 'cause it is widely known that Dubya does nt use electronics | 15:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | JOHNY-7, the N810 is not a cellphone. | 15:50 |
| KotCzarny | rst: but they probably came in a contener from caribbean (spelling?) area | 15:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | It has a Bluetooth radio and an 802.11g radio. | 15:51 |
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| RST38h | Kot: Yea, but Cubans coming in the same containers are usually somewhat larger and darker in color | 15:51 |
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| KotCzarny | :) | 15:51 |
| KotCzarny | rst, i'm just kidding | 15:51 |
| RST38h | :E~ | 15:52 |
| JOHNY-7 | GeneralAntilles? is not a cellphone ?:O | 15:52 |
| JOHNY-7 | i can't put my sim card inside? | 15:52 |
| RST38h | GA is not a cellphone either | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | What, did you see it and come directly here? | 15:52 |
| KotCzarny | johny: no, no sim card | 15:52 |
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| KotCzarny | johny: you want gsm data, you connect to a bluetooth gsm phone | 15:52 |
| RST38h | You may be able to insert a SIM card into him but he won't handshake to the tower | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | You may not live through the process either. | 15:53 |
| JOHNY-7 | :( | 15:53 |
| KotCzarny | johny: wan't gsm, get an iphone | 15:53 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:53 |
| KotCzarny | *want | 15:53 |
| RST38h | or get N810+E51 | 15:53 |
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| JOHNY-7 | i was ready to buy it for Cell :P | 15:53 |
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| RST38h | and treat it as a portable deskphone | 15:53 |
| disq | timeless: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3061 | 15:54 |
| term-sig | E51? | 15:54 |
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| term-sig | nokia? | 15:54 |
| timeless | disq: i'm lagged | 15:54 |
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| KotCzarny | "Ants On A Plane." lol | 15:55 |
| JOHNY-7 | pfff :S | 15:56 |
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| JOHNY-7 | ill go back to symbian :P cause win mobile is tooooooo slow | 15:58 |
| RST38h | hehe | 15:58 |
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| KotCzarny | sure | 15:58 |
| RST38h | Yet another happy WinMobile user | 15:58 |
| KotCzarny | n8x0 is for hackers | 15:58 |
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| JOHNY-7 | [RST38h] i was thinking for HTC TyTn II | 15:59 |
| JOHNY-7 | but when i show it.... | 15:59 |
| JOHNY-7 | slowwwwwwww :p | 15:59 |
| KotCzarny | get an iphone | 16:00 |
| KotCzarny | :P) | 16:00 |
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| JOHNY-7 | is it faster ? | 16:00 |
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| KotCzarny | appears to be so | 16:00 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 16:00 |
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| disq | timeless: that bug is about 4.1 being nonexistent in bugzilla version field | 16:02 |
| KotCzarny | is it 4.1 released, yet? | 16:03 |
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| KotCzarny | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_IV | 16:10 |
| KotCzarny | hehe | 16:11 |
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| KotCzarny | darn, those ants are scary | 16:12 |
| timeless | disq: yeah well... | 16:13 |
| hrw | https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Main_Page | 16:13 |
| timeless | um, "oops" :) | 16:13 |
| timeless | i'd rather get feedback about problems now, w/ some prayer of getting them fixed | 16:13 |
| timeless | than get bugs tomorrow after the official ship | 16:13 |
| disq | timeless: there's also a "diablo bug thread" in ITT developers forum section | 16:14 |
| KotCzarny | hrw, shouldn't main page list sections rather? | 16:14 |
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| KotCzarny | hrw: thinkwiki has it nicely organized | 16:14 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 16:14 |
| timeless | disq: afaik people don't read that :) | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Textrat and others have been pushing the useful bugs from there somewhere internally. | 16:15 |
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| timeless | i hate to ask, but does itt have complaints about microb in diablo? | 16:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | A few. | 16:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Only from non-retarded people, though. | 16:27 |
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| hrw | KotCzarny: feel free to edit ;D | 16:56 |
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| dneary | Anyone know the nick of Anthony Nguyen? | 17:03 |
| KotCzarny | sounds like 419 | 17:04 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 17:04 |
| KotCzarny | (sorry for being stereotypical) | 17:04 |
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| RST38h | Nguyen is Vietnamese afaik | 17:19 |
| RST38h | So, no, wrong stereotype | 17:19 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 17:20 |
| KotCzarny | nap time, bbl | 17:20 |
| RST38h | sleep tight, ants are coming | 17:20 |
| KotCzarny | i have a terminator in teh building | 17:21 |
| KotCzarny | i'm not afraid | 17:21 |
| jaska | ahnold? | 17:21 |
| KotCzarny | haven't asked about the name | 17:21 |
| KotCzarny | he usually says 'terminator' to 'who is it' | 17:22 |
| KotCzarny | ok, night | 17:22 |
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| timeless | ok, i did my one good deed for the day | 17:49 |
| timeless | we'll try to finally fix the hardware key submits instead of opening finger keyboard :( | 17:49 |
| timeless | no guaranteees | 17:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The latest Diablo MicroB is hilariously non-functional where the finger keyboard is concerned. <_< | 17:52 |
| timeless | got a list of bugs? | 17:52 |
| timeless | i just pushed 2405 to a dev, hopefully we'll fix it this week | 17:53 |
| timeless | sadly most people don't remember the n800 | 17:53 |
| timeless | in fact, it was "hard" for me to find an n800 to demo the bug :) | 17:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that one is currently rather ludicrous. | 17:53 |
| timeless | fwiw, the summary's very wrong | 17:54 |
| timeless | it has nothing to do w/ the start page | 17:54 |
| timeless | i seem to recall explaining the bug to someone | 17:54 |
| qwerty12 | My biggest fault in MicroB is sometimes, when using the normal touch screen keyboard, tapping backspace on a input field closes the touch screen keyboard and sends the backspace signal to the browser which goes a page back. | 17:54 |
| timeless | but i clearly didn't comment in the bug | 17:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | start page is where I experience it | 17:54 |
| timeless | sure | 17:54 |
| timeless | but it doesn't relate to start page | 17:54 |
| timeless | it's any <input> in any submitable form | 17:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't guess that. :P | 17:54 |
| timeless | data:text/html,<form action="data:text/plain,"><input> | 17:54 |
| timeless | try it | 17:54 |
| timeless | heck, once you're satisfied, fill in the url field and fix the summary :) | 17:55 |
| timeless | qwerty12: got a bug # and testcase? | 17:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't disagree, but guessing that at the time of bug submission was a highly unlikely occurrence. ;) | 17:56 |
| qwerty12 | timeless, Don't really check the bugzilla much. I find it randomly happens but most of the time with the Internet Tablet Talk quick reply. | 17:56 |
| timeless | qwerty12: hrm | 17:56 |
| timeless | sounds like focus changed and the ime didn't kill itself | 17:56 |
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| timeless | the problem is that i think we're actually *required* to honor backspace= go back for the hardware+bt keyboards | 17:57 |
| timeless | (this is insane imo, but ...) | 17:57 |
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| * timeless has lost just about every ui decision imaginable | 17:57 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 17:57 |
| timeless | (hrm, forget imaginable, i never imagined needing to decide or explain any of these points) | 17:58 |
| qwerty12 | Can't there be a gconf value somewhere? I already know that on first boot it runs different commands depending on which RX it is running off. | 17:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully that bugzilla component for that damnable UI spec gets some traction. :\ | 17:58 |
| timeless | qwert12: hrm | 17:58 |
| timeless | have you seen http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/ | 17:58 |
| timeless | specifically http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/microb-pageupdown-0.1.deb | 17:58 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah, I saw that one :) | 17:58 |
| timeless | depending on how "clever" we were, you may be able to do something for goback | 17:58 |
| timeless | traditionally goback is boudn in a similar way | 17:59 |
| timeless | i'm not sure if it is in our system | 17:59 |
| timeless | i'm also fairly certain i don't want to look | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, ok, thanks. I'll see if I can take a look sometime in that mozilla file. | 17:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Would this be a better summary: "Center d-pad press sends blank form instead of activating finger keyboard when input field is highlighted" | 17:59 |
| timeless | general: doesn't matter if it's blank or not | 17:59 |
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| timeless | d-pad press is treated as <enter> key triggering form submit | 18:00 |
| timeless | s/^/center / | 18:00 |
| timeless | use my text to replace your Center...form | 18:00 |
| timeless | fwiw, try it w/ data:text/html,<textarea> | 18:01 |
| timeless | you'll see it sends both the <enter> and opens the fkb :) | 18:01 |
| johnx | confirmed :) | 18:01 |
| timeless | actually, include that as part of the url... | 18:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Oh, also, enter in the finger keyboard closes the finger keyboard instead of sending the form/url. | 18:02 |
| timeless | and include steps to show both bugs and expected results/actual | 18:02 |
| timeless | hrm | 18:02 |
| timeless | that's funny, but please treat that as a distinct bug | 18:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which was something that actually got a lot better in everything ELSE in Diablo, except MicroB. | 18:02 |
| timeless | heh | 18:02 |
| timeless | keep in mind that web browsers basically reimplement everything | 18:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though, strangely, just better, instead of FIXED. <_< | 18:03 |
| timeless | because they have to | 18:03 |
| timeless | you can't honestly tell me you're surprised by that? :) | 18:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, I can't. | 18:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | But if I think about the fact that I'm not surprised I'll just get depressed. | 18:03 |
| timeless | anyway, if you have bugs, i think there's time to report them | 18:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not that we have a 4.1. . . . | 18:03 |
| timeless | so please, report... let's try to have a relatively debug'd version :) | 18:04 |
| timeless | um... yeah well... enough people have that leaked version to go bug hunting | 18:04 |
| * qwerty12 coughs | 18:04 | |
| qwerty12 | So where are those bugs reported? | 18:04 |
| timeless | i'd prefer you file them in bugs.maemo.org | 18:05 |
| timeless | i'll try to find people to pull them in | 18:05 |
| timeless | be sure to include the system information | 18:05 |
| timeless | (especially the week number so that people recognize it isn't the official release) | 18:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK, I guess we do have a 4.1 now. | 18:05 |
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| timeless | yeah *cough* | 18:06 |
| timeless | "oops" ;-) | 18:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 18:06 |
| timeless | historically people have actually been given prereleases and filed bugs in bugs.maemo.org w/ a private flag | 18:06 |
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| qwerty12 | Is there a chinook equivalent of the gtk-infoprint.h? :/ | 18:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's the term for the drop-down on the URL bar? | 18:07 |
| timeless | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/find?string=gtk.*infop.*h | 18:07 |
| timeless | says not by that name | 18:07 |
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| qwerty12 | Ah, thanks :/ | 18:08 |
| timeless | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/search?string=infoprint&find=gtk.*h | 18:08 |
| qwerty12 | Thanks | 18:09 |
| infobot | qwerty12: bitte | 18:09 |
| RST38h | hello qwerty | 18:09 |
| qwerty12 | hi RST38h :) | 18:09 |
| timeless | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/find?string=hildon.*note&tree=os2008&hint= | 18:09 |
| timeless | is probably what you want | 18:09 |
| timeless | if i were to hazard a guess | 18:09 |
| qwerty12 | I'll try it out, many thanks :) | 18:09 |
| timeless | the xref is your friend :) | 18:09 |
| qwerty12 | I've never really understood it before but now I will try and use it :) | 18:10 |
| timeless | mind you, figuring out you want a note from infoprint isn't easy or obvious | 18:10 |
| timeless | http://www.mirrors.docunext.com/cgi-bin/maemo-hildon/view/hildon-1/ChangeLog.2 | 18:11 |
| timeless | is probably the evidence of its death | 18:12 |
| qwerty12 | Hehe, I need a copy in my fight for USB Networking. | 18:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3179 | 18:15 |
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| timeless | ok, so um... any other major bugs i should know about? :) | 18:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nope, only two I've run into. | 18:29 |
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| lopz | re | 18:30 |
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| johnx | bug: my n800 doesn't make rainbows or dispense chocolate | 18:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, no, there's one more than I've experienced once. | 18:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | and one that at least 2 others have experienced and was apparently reported internally by Mara. | 18:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180444&postcount=1 | 18:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | The ITT frontpage seems to render funny sometimes. | 18:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are screenshots included on that post. | 18:31 |
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| keesj | timeless: did you look at the survey one ? http://maemo.mmapps.net/n810_survey/ | 18:33 |
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| * qwerty12 wishes infobot didn't come back. | 18:35 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody go find TimRiker and beat him with a stick. | 18:35 |
| TimRiker | ~lart GeneralAntilles | 18:36 |
| * infobot blasts GeneralAntilles with a huge firehose then strangles GeneralAntilles with it | 18:36 | |
| GeneralAntilles | thanks | 18:36 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles: my pleasure | 18:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | No more of that, please. | 18:36 |
| johnx | ahaha | 18:36 |
| qwerty12 | That's actually a good curse. | 18:36 |
| qwerty12 | Compared to what it normally says :/ | 18:36 |
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| GnutoN810 | hi | 18:39 |
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| timeless | keesjy: i meant to | 18:42 |
| timeless | lemme do that now | 18:42 |
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| timeless | keesj: ok, first thing i see, the page doesn't fit on my device | 18:43 |
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| timeless | wow | 18:44 |
| timeless | um, could you reduce the select problem into a simple page and file a bug for just that? | 18:44 |
| timeless | it's um... *bad* | 18:44 |
| keesj | :P | 18:44 |
| timeless | gah | 18:44 |
| timeless | what idiot decided that American (nationality) was a language? | 18:44 |
| johnx | so you can't speak American? | 18:45 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 18:45 |
| timeless | nope | 18:45 |
| keesj | :p so you can at least reproduce it . ok | 18:45 |
| timeless | i suppose i should say "which idiot" | 18:45 |
| * timeless sighs and goes back to reviewing slides written by a humble non native speaker | 18:45 | |
| timeless | a wise humble non native speaker... | 18:45 |
| timeless | one wise enough to ask for a review... | 18:45 |
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| timeless | btw, are there supposed to be other slides? | 18:46 |
| timeless | all it asks me for is my language | 18:46 |
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| keesj | this was already a copy or course there are about 60 slides so ... | 18:46 |
| timeless | ok | 18:47 |
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| timeless | anyway, please reduce and find/file a bug | 18:47 |
| timeless | that sucks :( | 18:47 |
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| timeless | i know there was a bug where you played pong w/ quim | 18:49 |
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| timeless | it's probably best to just use another bug | 18:49 |
| keesj | yes , perhaps it really is a css issue | 18:50 |
| timeless | oh brother | 18:50 |
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| timeless | someone wants me to verify the ssl fix | 18:50 |
| timeless | anyone know how to verify it? | 18:51 |
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| johnx | is this the debian related thing? | 18:51 |
| timeless | yes | 18:51 |
| johnx | verify a "suitable" amount of entropy? | 18:51 |
| timeless | a guy is stupid enough to file a bug to derail a release | 18:52 |
| timeless | and what thanks does he get | 18:52 |
| timeless | he's obligated to verify the fix | 18:52 |
| timeless | that'll teach me never to file critical bugs | 18:52 |
| andre___ | obligated? who sid that? | 18:53 |
| timeless | internal politics | 18:53 |
| timeless | or bean counting | 18:53 |
| johnx | use the entropy to make a random number, let 10 N8x0s sit their generating random numbers for 3 days, make sure the numbers look random | 18:53 |
| andre___ | people are not obligated at all. it would just be nice if they could confirm it | 18:54 |
| timeless | employees are obligated | 18:54 |
| timeless | people are special | 18:54 |
| timeless | employees are not people | 18:54 |
| andre___ | ah, employees - thats okay indeed | 18:54 |
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| timeless | oh sure, no sympathy | 18:54 |
| andre___ | thought you refered to users | 18:54 |
| andre___ | well - of course it could also be done by qa | 18:55 |
| andre___ | nokia's decision how to organize that :-) | 18:55 |
| timeless | sadly, it ought to be done by someone who has a clue | 18:56 |
| timeless | and in this case, i don't know anyone who qualifies | 18:56 |
| andre___ | hehe | 18:56 |
| dougt | is there any difference between launch an application from SSH, and launching the same application via an the gui? For example, is it a fair test to ssh into the device, run fennec, and measure performance? Or is there something special when you double tap on an icon that launches fennec? Reason I am asking is that there are some reports of better perf when not ssh'ing in. | 18:56 |
| timeless | that includes me | 18:56 |
| dougt | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433578#c6 | 18:56 |
| andre___ | argh, understand | 18:56 |
| timeless | dougt: i did my measurement from ssh | 18:56 |
| timeless | are you using wifi or usb for ssh? | 18:57 |
| dougt | wifi | 18:57 |
| timeless | keep in mind that you might be influencing the network stack | 18:57 |
| timeless | try usb? | 18:57 |
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| dougt | maybe. | 18:57 |
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| timeless | i like the changes to the commented out block | 18:58 |
| timeless | anyway, the touchscreen driver is fairly sensitive | 18:58 |
| timeless | we found all sorts of things changed behaviors | 18:58 |
| timeless | e.g. using the serial console | 18:58 |
| timeless | you should talk to sp3000 | 18:59 |
| timeless | he can connect you to people who know more/better | 18:59 |
| dougt | k | 18:59 |
| dougt | did you see my patch to expose mouse pressure in the DOM? | 18:59 |
| dougt | pretty cool demo. | 18:59 |
| timeless | i missed it | 18:59 |
| dougt | http://dougt.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/mouseevent-pressure-property/ | 19:00 |
| timeless | are you trying to put maemopadplus out of business? | 19:00 |
| dougt | no, i just want to make the web better. | 19:00 |
| * dougt looks at maemopadplus | 19:00 | |
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| timeless | for a while maemopadplus was used to help people demonstrate how busted their n800 touchscreens were :) | 19:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 19:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | I hope the N900 has a slightly less-shitty touchscreen. . . . | 19:01 |
| qwerty12 | I hope the N900 is what the N800 isn't. | 19:02 |
| qwerty12 | /wierd mode over. | 19:02 |
| timeless | dougt: fwiw, most toucpads on windows expose pressure | 19:02 |
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| timeless | so you should add it for win32 | 19:02 |
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| timeless | but keep in mind that people will start breaking the web | 19:03 |
| timeless | by requiring/expecting the feature | 19:03 |
| timeless | microb is already hosed because of this | 19:03 |
| Knirch | oh god yes please, break the web! | 19:03 |
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| Knirch | bring gopher back! Bring Gopher Back! *rallies* | 19:03 |
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| timeless | dougt: i'd agrue that by default apps should not be allowed access to pressure information | 19:04 |
| dougt | timeless: i disagree that it breaks the web. | 19:05 |
| timeless | dougt: if someone writes an app that requires pressure | 19:05 |
| timeless | and i'm using a browser that isn't pressure enabled | 19:05 |
| timeless | i'm locked out | 19:05 |
| timeless | this is not good. | 19:05 |
| sp3000 | timeless, dougt: eero seems to watch maemo-developers | 19:05 |
| sp3000 | but I suppose one thing to check is if you're spewing enough through ssh to slow things down, indeed :) | 19:06 |
| qwerty12 | scratchbox: "configure: error: Your system doesn't have "bc", which has been a standard part of Unix since the 1970s. Come back when your vendor has grown a clue." | 19:07 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 19:07 |
| johnx | ahaha | 19:07 |
| johnx | qwerty12, what distro? | 19:07 |
| timeless | nice | 19:07 |
| RST38h | poor poor vendor | 19:07 |
| qwerty12 | No distro :). Maemo SDK :p | 19:07 |
| RST38h | poor poor configure | 19:07 |
| johnx | ah...classy | 19:07 |
| RST38h | qwerty: do you want a setup that will not require qutoconf & fiends? | 19:07 |
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| johnx | yeah...I kinda hate people's configure scripts a lot of the time... | 19:08 |
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| timeless | sp3000: help | 19:08 |
| RST38h | s/quotoconf/autoconf/ | 19:08 |
| qwerty12 | I don't mind compiling bc etc, that error made me chuckle :) | 19:08 |
| qwerty12 | Thanks | 19:08 |
| infobot | qwerty12: my pleasure | 19:08 |
| * qwerty12 beats the shit out of infobot | 19:08 | |
| Navi | Heh | 19:08 |
| Navi | I built bc already. | 19:08 |
| dougt | timeless: there are a bunch of DOM features that are going to be optional. | 19:08 |
| * RST38h remembers creating a project in KDevelop - the system hung for about 5 minutes and, when stopped, managed to create >200 files in the project directory | 19:08 | |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, just highlight TimRiker everytime it does that. :P | 19:09 |
| dougt | timeless: GPS/location, pressure, camera, etc. | 19:09 |
| timeless | dougt: features can't be optional | 19:09 |
| RST38h | autoconf, automake, copy of GPL, whatever | 19:09 |
| timeless | you need to let users set values | 19:09 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, hehe | 19:09 |
| timeless | doing otherwise is discriminatory | 19:09 |
| timeless | and you have to let the users lie | 19:09 |
| TimRiker | GeneralAntilles: it's a lame bug introduced by troubled. spam him. :) | 19:09 |
| timeless | esp gps | 19:09 |
| beford | hello, I've started running out of space on the internal memory for n810, i installed severals apps, downloaded cover art for my mp3, etc. I've got a microSD of 8gb. What kind of files can I move to the microsd? I've already moved the covers folder, and symlinked it. but I dont know what else should I move. | 19:09 |
| timeless | but also camera | 19:09 |
| timeless | if someone tries to use a camera on a device that doesn't have a camera | 19:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | beford, delete the documentation PDFs. | 19:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's 32MB or so right there. | 19:10 |
| timeless | the user should be able to feed the app an image | 19:10 |
| dougt | timeless: have you looked at any of the capabilities spec? | 19:10 |
| qwerty12 | And the weird tracks included with the N810/N800. Where's my RnB and grime and hip-hop!?! | 19:10 |
| timeless | doubtful mailto timeless@gmail | 19:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh be quite Mr. I-have-no-taste-in-music | 19:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/quite/quiet/ | 19:11 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Oh be quiet Mr. I-have-no-taste-in-music | 19:11 |
| elb | heh yeah the tracks that come on the 810 are pretty lame | 19:11 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, Just stick with your Bob Marley ;) | 19:11 |
| elb | I dunno about RnB and hip-hop, but still | 19:12 |
| mrlanrat | And the music video. | 19:12 |
| RST38h | KILL KILL RM | 19:12 |
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| RST38h | NEC "invented" heart shaped LCD | 19:13 |
| qwerty12 | NEC are cheesy | 19:13 |
| RST38h | how touching! | 19:13 |
| qwerty12 | Baby! I gave you my heart, | 19:14 |
| mrlanrat | Wow, who would buy sutch a thing? | 19:14 |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h keeps a few for himself | 19:14 |
| * RST38h wonders how marketing department managed to justify that | 19:14 | |
| johnx | I think I know some people... | 19:14 |
| Navi | Heh | 19:14 |
| qwerty12 | Don't be shy johnx! | 19:14 |
| X-Fade | Photoframes.. | 19:14 |
| johnx | is this sold only in Japan by any chance? | 19:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | TimRiker, he says it's a non-reproducible bug unique to your bot, and that you should revert back to 1.5.2. | 19:15 |
| Navi | Yay for Japanese overpriced consumer electronics | 19:15 |
| johnx | ...with incredibly cutesy themes | 19:15 |
| TimRiker | GeneralAntilles: thanx for the obvious. | 19:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | The people suffering here are the ones at the receiving end of the spambot. ;) | 19:16 |
| Navi | Hello Kitty Heart Shaped LCDs - BUY NOW! | 19:16 |
| qwerty12 | Lets keep on excess flooding the bot :p | 19:16 |
| qwerty12 | Navi, Sure, where from? | 19:16 |
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| beford | Is the 'n810' storage different to the 'Internal memory card' storage? | 19:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are 2 parts | 19:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The internal flash memory where the OS is which is 256MB | 19:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the internal soldered-on SD card that's 2GB. | 19:17 |
| beford | ok, so all the apps are installed on the 256 mb? | 19:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 19:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I recommend investigating booting from an SD. | 19:18 |
| TimRiker | hello | 19:20 |
| TimRiker | thanks | 19:20 |
| TimRiker | GeneralAntilles: should be fixed now. | 19:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wonderful. Thanks, TimRiker. :) | 19:20 |
| qwerty12 | thanks | 19:20 |
| qwerty12 | w00t, infobot isn't replying :) | 19:20 |
| Navi | Thanks | 19:20 |
| Navi | awesome | 19:20 |
| johnx | thanks for shutting the hell up infobot! | 19:20 |
| qwerty12 | infobot, I <3 you again :wub: | 19:21 |
| infobot | You <3 you again :wub:? | 19:21 |
| Navi | >_> | 19:21 |
| qwerty12 | That would be going round in circles... | 19:21 |
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| Gnuton | Qt 4.4.0 packages with webkit are available for maemo | 19:22 |
| Navi | sex | 19:22 |
| Gnuton | on qt4.garage.maemo.org | 19:23 |
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| beford | what's the worst thing it could happen if a firmware update/installation goes wrong | 19:26 |
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| keesj | timeless: it is a font thingy http://maemo.mmapps.net/test2/index.html (me will bug later) | 19:26 |
| timeless | you have an expensive brick | 19:26 |
| timeless | say ~$450 | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, if it goes wrong during the NOLO flash you'd need a serial JTAG cable to flash that again. | 19:27 |
| qwerty12 | Even with a serial cable that could be fixed | 19:27 |
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| qwerty12 | General beat me to it. | 19:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | But that's incredibly unlikely. | 19:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and even if it fails at any OTHER point, you can still reflash again without issue. | 19:27 |
| timeless | keesj: be sure to tell people to use 100% zoom | 19:27 |
| qwerty12 | I've only seen 2 people brick theirs on ITT and thats only because they were writing to mtd from the tablet, not from an update. | 19:27 |
| timeless | @80% zoomm the bug isn't visible :) | 19:27 |
| Navi | awesome | 19:28 |
| johnx | I've never actually heard of anyone bricking their tablet with any official Nokia flashing tool | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, NOLO is extremely small and the flasher moves quite rapidly. | 19:28 |
| qwerty12 | I've never bricked mine with 0xFFFF, forget official :) | 19:28 |
| timeless | well, someone asked what was possible | 19:29 |
| timeless | i love answering such questions :) | 19:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yes, scaring users out of updating their tablets is definitely the way to go. :P | 19:30 |
| johnx | timeless, oh c'mon...you can make up a better worst case scenario than that! :P | 19:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 19:30 |
| qwerty12 | timeless, Wrong place to ask but can you please put back the confirmation when asking to update the package list? I use it to see when application manager is non busy and tapping it in diablo makes it busy again :/ | 19:30 |
| johnx | what about some random single bit error while flashing bme or something? | 19:30 |
| qwerty12 | Does bme get flashed? I thought bme was a proggie on initfs? | 19:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | initfs gets flashed. :P | 19:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I like your thinking, though, johnx. | 19:31 |
| johnx | "flashed" is kind of a confusing word with NAND I think... | 19:31 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I try to be a good pessimist | 19:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | *explosion* | 19:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, instead of a $450 brick, you end up with a $450 grenade and no fingers. :D | 19:32 |
| johnx | nah...you're still not thinking big picture | 19:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Educate me in the ways of pessimism, master. | 19:32 |
| johnx | in the *worst* case it lights on fire next to your curtains in the middle of the night and burns down your apartment complex | 19:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the orphanage next door? | 19:33 |
| johnx | don't forget the old folks home on the other side | 19:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I . . . think I understand now. | 19:33 |
| qwerty12 | If it burnt down my neighbours house, I wouldn't be pessimistic... | 19:33 |
| timeless | sorry, you're right | 19:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey, you have bad neighbors, too, qwerty12? :D | 19:34 |
| timeless | it is possible to cause your device to blow up | 19:34 |
| * GeneralAntilles my neighbors breed pitbulls. | 19:34 | |
| timeless | if you mess up the battery charger regulation mechanism | 19:34 |
| johnx | confirmation for Nokia! I'll start a thread on ITT! woo! | 19:34 |
| johnx | s/for/from/ | 19:34 |
| infobot | johnx meant: confirmation from Nokia! I'll start a thread on ITT! woo! | 19:34 |
| Mousey | confromation on what? | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 19:34 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, Yep :). The dodgy music they put on at 11PM in the night and I swear they go into our garden... | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | That flashing your device will result in it blowing up. :D | 19:34 |
| Mousey | oh | 19:35 |
| timeless | no no | 19:35 |
| timeless | if you use an unofficial flash or somehow void your warrantee | 19:35 |
| timeless | something like that could happen | 19:35 |
| qwerty12 | Don't worry, we got logs :p. Timeless confirmed it :P | 19:35 |
| Mousey | uh huh | 19:35 |
| johnx | yeah and I'm the only one offering insurance for this important issue! :D | 19:36 |
| johnx | you wouldn't want anything *bad* to happen to your tablet, now would'ya? | 19:36 |
| * GeneralAntilles thinks we somebody should alert Darius. | 19:36 | |
| GeneralAntilles | s/we// | 19:36 |
| timeless | ? | 19:36 |
| Jaffa | Nokia support terrorists! | 19:37 |
| johnx | timeless, Darius is semi-famous for his "interesting" posts on ITT and maemo-dev | 19:37 |
| timeless | :( please don't quote me | 19:37 |
| timeless | i don't want to get in trouble | 19:37 |
| timeless | but basically if you do void your warrantee | 19:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, we're only kidding. ;) | 19:37 |
| timeless | and say directly apply voltage to the battery or something | 19:38 |
| timeless | it should be possible to make it at least smoke if not do something worse | 19:38 |
| qwerty12 | Make it rain | 19:38 |
| timeless | i'm not sure how, but i suspect that a chemist could explain | 19:38 |
| summatusmentis | well, you see... | 19:38 |
| johnx | yeah definitely. I've heard the stories about RC plane guys having Li-Ion batteries go up from improper charging | 19:38 |
| * summatusmentis is not a chemist | 19:39 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | dariusjack2006 at yahoo.com is his email on the lists. | 19:39 |
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| * qwerty12 is happy that diablo's apt has autoremove | 19:45 | |
| beford | just wondering, when I type exit on the X terminal, it seems to closes busybox, but osso_xterm keeps running. that's *normal* right? | 19:46 |
| johnx | yup | 19:46 |
| sp3000 | beford: bug | 19:46 |
| qwerty12 | It's a bug. Grab a svn version where it was fixed. | 19:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Behavior is fixed in Diablo. | 19:46 |
| summatusmentis | diablo? is that OS2008 4.1? | 19:46 |
| qwerty12 | yes | 19:46 |
| summatusmentis | Diablo is also the Nokia software used for flashing phones IIRC | 19:46 |
| qwerty12 | That's Phoenix ;) | 19:47 |
| summatusmentis | well, Phoenix for some phones | 19:47 |
| johnx | it's also...ya'know...the devil | 19:47 |
| summatusmentis | older phones used Diablo, I think | 19:47 |
| summatusmentis | johnx: well, yes :) | 19:47 |
| qwerty12 | It's phoenix for all the new BB5 phones. | 19:47 |
| qwerty12 | Diego is the old one | 19:47 |
| summatusmentis | oh... yeah, Diego | 19:47 |
| summatusmentis | s/abl/ie/ | 19:48 |
| qwerty12 | Ironically, N800 is BB5 so Phoenix has N800 support too. | 19:48 |
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| summatusmentis | I can't type, nvm | 19:48 |
| summatusmentis | I'm gonna break down and do it | 19:49 |
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| summatusmentis | I'm pretty sure I'm buying an N810 within the next few days | 19:49 |
| qwerty12 | Go on, you know you want to :p | 19:49 |
| summatusmentis | I do want to, most definitely | 19:49 |
| summatusmentis | it's a matter of whether or not I can | 19:49 |
| summatusmentis | need to make sure the check won't bounce, all that | 19:50 |
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| summatusmentis | alright, leaving now. | 19:51 |
| summatusmentis | peace all | 19:51 |
| qwerty12 | Bye | 19:51 |
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| * qwerty12 MUST get rocks and diamonds compiled :/ | 19:52 | |
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| beford | there is an application that says 'teach handwriting' but I can't see any app to handwrite :| | 19:59 |
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| johnx | it's an input method | 19:59 |
| fysa | touch to bring up the stylus keypad | 20:00 |
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| johnx | in the small keyboard click the lowest left key I think | 20:00 |
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| fysa | then there is a button on that keyboard that lets you switch to handwriting | 20:00 |
| fysa | yes, lower left | 20:00 |
| jdiaz | can the external flash memory be used as swap memory on n810? | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, Control Panel: Memory -> Virtual tab | 20:01 |
| jdiaz | control panel only gives the option of using the internal flash memory | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll use the internal with GUI | 20:02 |
| eocanha | Hi | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | You could change it to external if you wanted, though. | 20:02 |
| qwerty12 | jdiaz, Make a swap file with dd and use swapon | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just not through the GUI. | 20:02 |
| jdiaz | GA, thanks, that is what I was asking for | 20:02 |
| eocanha | maemo_4-0_tutorial recommends the usage of gtk_window_fullscreen() and gtk_window_unfullscreen() but, is there any way to know the current fullscreen state of a window? | 20:02 |
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| eocanha | beford: you have to select one letter in the left list and you'll see its current handwriting patterns | 20:05 |
| eocanha | then you can click on "Add" button to add a new pattern for that letter. | 20:06 |
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| beford | yea but, I'm still unable to use handwriting my virtual keyboard still doesn't appear | 20:08 |
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| jdiaz | hmm.. before creating the swap file with dd, should I defragment the unit? Or the defragmenting concept is not applicable to flash drives? | 20:09 |
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| PhosphoricX | Anybody know a good tutorial on setting up sbrsh, especially with ESBox. I've followed the Maemo HOWTO, but I'm still having problems | 20:09 |
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| johnx | jdiaz, exactly. the "sectors" reported by an SD card aren't really the way the data is organized on the card | 20:09 |
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| jdiaz | so I can't jump ahead to dd/mkswap/swapon | 20:10 |
| johnx | you can | 20:10 |
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| eocanha | beford: do you see a popup appearing? It says "draw desired shape in the entry area" (translated back from spanish), and shows a box similar to the one in the virtual keyboard, but doesn't really show the virtual keyboard itself | 20:10 |
| jdiaz | yes, I can, sorry. That's what I intended to write :-) | 20:10 |
| beford | got it working :] I had disabled stylus input method on the control panel | 20:10 |
| beford | it was probably me, heh. | 20:11 |
| johnx | jdiaz, kind of what I thought. I figured I'd be clear though. :) | 20:11 |
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| jdiaz | eocanha, español? | 20:11 |
| eocanha | sí | 20:11 |
| eocanha | (yes) | 20:12 |
| jdiaz | me too | 20:12 |
| jdiaz | :) | 20:12 |
| beford | yo too | 20:12 |
| eocanha | hehe, I supposed that from your surname | 20:12 |
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| beford | there is a #maemo-es channel registered but is dead | 20:15 |
| beford | -ChanServ- Channel: #maemo-es | 20:16 |
| beford | -ChanServ- Contact: Skyhusker | 20:16 |
| beford | -ChanServ- Registered: 2 years 30 weeks (19h 3m 9s) ago | 20:16 |
| beford | -ChanServ- Last Used: 2 years 23 weeks 4 days (2h 26m 24s) ago | 20:16 |
| beford | :/ | 20:16 |
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| lopz | mm how actualice scale in python+gtk+gstreamer ? for control position the file multimedia :\ | 20:19 |
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| jdiaz | Hum... I created a swapfile on /media/mmc1 using dd and mkswap, and then swapon. All this was almost instantaneous | 20:38 |
| jdiaz | however, when using the GUI, a progress bar is displayed, and it takes a lot of time to complete | 20:38 |
| jdiaz | what is it doing? | 20:38 |
| johnx | I really don't know | 20:39 |
| zap | filling with zeros perhaps :) | 20:39 |
| jdiaz | that is what dd is for, and it takes less than half of the time | 20:39 |
| jdiaz | well, it doesn't matter much | 20:39 |
| zap | well I think the sources should be available :) | 20:39 |
| elb | you didn't skip= did you? | 20:39 |
| jdiaz | i didn't... where I sould did it? | 20:40 |
| zap | in dd | 20:40 |
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| elb | OK | 20:40 |
| jdiaz | no | 20:40 |
| elb | skip= will make dd much faster, but it's not safe | 20:40 |
| elb | (well, not safe on filesystems which support sparse files, anyway) | 20:41 |
| zap | are you sure you mean skip? | 20:41 |
| zap | skip just skips blocks in output | 20:41 |
| elb | yes | 20:41 |
| elb | right | 20:41 |
| zap | and fills previous sectors with zero you mean? | 20:41 |
| elb | no, it doesn't do anything to the previous sectors | 20:42 |
| elb | it seeks to the skipped point before writing | 20:42 |
| zap | it depends on file system | 20:42 |
| elb | so on filesystems which support sparse files, those blocks won't be allocated | 20:42 |
| zap | safe filesystems will fill with zeros | 20:42 |
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| elb | "safe" isn't the issue, really | 20:42 |
| zap | on filesystems which support sparse files anything won't be written to disk afaik | 20:42 |
| elb | when you read back, you'll get zeroes | 20:42 |
| zap | same when you write zeros, some fs will optimize out such writes | 20:43 |
| elb | but it's dangeorus for swap files, because you can oversubscribe your disk space using sparse files | 20:43 |
| elb | no filesystem I'm aware of optimizes out blocks of zeroes | 20:43 |
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| elb | that's a lot of overhead | 20:43 |
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| elb | anyway, if he didn't use it, that's not the answer to the speed question, which is the only reason I asked | 20:43 |
| zap | I have read about this not so long ago | 20:44 |
| zap | perhaps about ext4 or ocfs2 | 20:44 |
| elb | compressed filesystems might do such a thing, that's the only place it makes sense | 20:44 |
| elb | verifying that a block is full of zeroes means you have to touch every byte | 20:44 |
| elb | which is Not Cool | 20:44 |
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| zap | well, when you read blocks from /dev/zero I'm not sure they really exist | 20:45 |
| elb | they do | 20:45 |
| zap | they could be just marked somehow until first access | 20:45 |
| elb | whatever reads from /dev/zero actually gets zeroes | 20:45 |
| zap | sure it does, when it accesses it | 20:46 |
| PhosphoricX | How do the permissions work with sbrsh? I keep getting "permission denied" | 20:46 |
| elb | I'm not sure where you're getting this information, but I think it's unfounded speculation | 20:46 |
| elb | and it's not related to johnx's question anyway | 20:46 |
| zap | =) | 20:46 |
| elb | err, jdiaz | 20:46 |
| PhosphoricX | The sbrshd log tells me that it's trying to use an invalid uid and gid | 20:46 |
| johnx | I actually scrolled back to see if I had asked a question and then totally forgotten... | 20:47 |
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| johnx | That's totally the kind of thing I would do... ;) | 20:47 |
| mysc | anyone else notice the n810 battery cover is not airtight, a tad loose and battery moves | 20:48 |
| elb | I'm not sure why you'd expect it to be airtight | 20:48 |
| elb | mine isn't "loose", but you can move it around a little with a bit of force | 20:49 |
| mysc | not literally airtight, but if you press it on the left side it does depress | 20:49 |
| beford | is there any option to lock the applets on the home screen? | 20:50 |
| johnx | no | 20:50 |
| beford | :[ | 20:50 |
| johnx | there's an enhancement request on bugs.maemo.org though, I believe | 20:50 |
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| mysc | elb, yours doesn't at all? | 20:51 |
| elb | doesn't what? | 20:51 |
| beford | its a PITA to move them to the right places | 20:51 |
| mysc | flip it over and with your thumbs slide it downwards, doesn't it give a bit? | 20:51 |
| elb | yes, as I said, it will move around with a bit of force | 20:52 |
| zap | elb: can you look at drivers/char/mem.c? Look at function read_zero_pagealigned() | 20:52 |
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| elb | zap: what am I looking at? | 20:53 |
| zap | it first does zap_page_range() there, then zeromap_page_range() | 20:53 |
| zap | how /dev/zero works | 20:53 |
| zap | linux kernel I mean | 20:53 |
| elb | sure, what's your point? | 20:53 |
| zap | it doesn't fill pages with zeros | 20:54 |
| keesj | is there a mmmmeting today? | 20:54 |
| zap | it just marks them as 'needs to be zeroed when accessed' | 20:54 |
| elb | sure it does, it's just deferred | 20:54 |
| zap | yep | 20:54 |
| elb | nothing will ever see pages which aren't zero-filled | 20:55 |
| zap | so when you're writing them to some device, someone could detect such pages | 20:55 |
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| zap | and it doesn't have to scan it to know that it's filled with zeros | 20:55 |
| thopiekar | hi @ all | 20:55 |
| elb | this is wild speculation again | 20:55 |
| zap | yep | 20:55 |
| zap | but you said the same about /dev/zero :) | 20:55 |
| elb | no, I didn't | 20:55 |
| thopiekar | who of you worked with alsa-oss? | 20:55 |
| elb | I never said anything about /dev/zero which wasn't correct | 20:55 |
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| zap | ok | 20:55 |
| elb | the *manner* in which the zero pages are created is irrelevant -- userspace *really does* read zeroes | 20:55 |
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| zap | yes, but if you just do read()/write() you don't actually access the pages | 20:56 |
| elb | I assume, by the fact that you found that, that you understand how the MMU works at at least some basic level | 20:56 |
| elb | the kernel will access them when it writes | 20:56 |
| zap | nope | 20:56 |
| zap | the pages will be handed to the block device driver in a iob | 20:56 |
| zap | untouched | 20:56 |
| elb | yes, it's possible that the write() path reaches deep into the VM subsystem to find out if the pages have ever been initialized -- but that would be a pretty gross hack | 20:56 |
| zap | or to the fs | 20:56 |
| thopiekar | i'm searching for /etc/modules.d/alsa but i can't find it on my it | 20:57 |
| elb | for more or less no benefit | 20:57 |
| thopiekar | .. | 20:57 |
| zap | perhaps you're right | 20:57 |
| thopiekar | can someone help me? | 20:57 |
| zap | thopiekar: there's no ALSA in N810 :) | 20:57 |
| thopiekar | what's about mplayer? | 20:57 |
| Yjo | has anyone here had any luck setting up usbnet with vista? | 20:58 |
| thopiekar | i can use it with alsa.. | 20:58 |
| elb | it also ties every write path which wants to do so to specific architectures, which is ugly | 20:58 |
| zap | thopiekar: there is some virtual alsa device which routes sound through /dev/dsp/pcm* | 20:58 |
| johnx | thopiekar, what exactly are you trying to do? | 20:59 |
| thopiekar | i wanna use alsa-oss to hear music from the mediaplayer | 20:59 |
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| johnx | the built-in media player? | 21:00 |
| thopiekar | and "link" it to my bluetooth earspeaker | 21:00 |
| thopiekar | using a2dp | 21:00 |
| thopiekar | yes | 21:00 |
| zap | it already does that | 21:00 |
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| zap | mediaplayer plays through gstreamer | 21:00 |
| johnx | but it can't output to a2dp | 21:00 |
| thopiekar | but not trough a2dp | 21:00 |
| zap | if you're connected via bluetooth to some device | 21:00 |
| zap | which supports the respective protocol | 21:01 |
| zap | it will play via it | 21:01 |
| zap | I've connected via BT to my laptop and to my surprise music started to come out of laptop speakers | 21:01 |
| qwerty12_N800 | He doesn't want to use hfp or hsp | 21:01 |
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| elb | hah nice | 21:01 |
| johnx | zap, only for hsp, not a2dp | 21:01 |
| thopiekar | thats it | 21:01 |
| zap | I'm not a bluetooth guru though | 21:01 |
| elb | so the it provides an a2dp *output*? | 21:01 |
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| zap | no idea really :) it just worked for me | 21:02 |
| thopiekar | no it is "hackable" | 21:02 |
| elb | oh, you mean the other way around | 21:02 |
| thopiekar | trough alsa | 21:02 |
| mysc | shit, my "t" key sends two keypresses | 21:02 |
| elb | the it played out of the laptop speakers? | 21:02 |
| thopiekar | right johnx??^^ | 21:02 |
| mysc | did i get a DOA model? | 21:02 |
| elb | mysc: does it always do it? | 21:02 |
| zap | n810 plays through laptop speakers | 21:02 |
| mysc | yes | 21:02 |
| elb | the 810 keys are a bit bouncy | 21:02 |
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| elb | but I don't have any which consistently bounce | 21:02 |
| mysc | it's the only key which does it | 21:02 |
| johnx | thopiekar, yeah, you can do a2dp through mplayer without too much trouble...but it doesn't work that well | 21:02 |
| elb | and a t key that doubles isn't "DOA" ;-) | 21:02 |
| Yjo | has anyone found Vista drivers that work with n800 usb networking? | 21:03 |
| thopiekar | i know ... i checked out you thread on ott | 21:03 |
| thopiekar | *itt | 21:03 |
| mysc | well it ain't good | 21:03 |
| johnx | thopiekar, however, I don't think anyone's found out a way to get it working with the built-in media player | 21:03 |
| johnx | its output device isn't configurable, if I understand correctly | 21:04 |
| johnx | it outputs directly through gstreamer | 21:04 |
| thopiekar | isn't it possible to use alsa-oss to fix this? | 21:04 |
| johnx | err | 21:04 |
| mysc | elb, the | 21:04 |
| johnx | I don't think so | 21:04 |
| mysc | the | 21:04 |
| mysc | the "t" and "u" do it. and the "t" makes a u | 21:05 |
| zap | there are no OSS nor ALSA hw devices | 21:05 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Does gstreamer use oss? I thought it was esd. | 21:05 |
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| johnx | thopiekar, it depends on the chain of gstreamer "sinks" media player uses | 21:05 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, I'm thinking neither | 21:05 |
| thopiekar | "aoss /usr/bin/*mediaplayer-bin" works fine | 21:05 |
| zap | some sinks in gstreamer routes sound directly to DSP | 21:05 |
| zap | and there's no output from them | 21:05 |
| thopiekar | but the sound comes out of the "default" pcm | 21:05 |
| thopiekar | ... | 21:05 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | thopiekar, try aoss on the osso-media-server | 21:06 |
| johnx | thopiekar, the alsa "devices" on the tablet are an emulation | 21:06 |
| johnx | they're not the real hardware devices | 21:06 |
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| thopiekar | qwerty12_N800, I tried... it works... | 21:07 |
| qwerty12_N800 | What works? | 21:07 |
| thopiekar | johnx, is it possible to port alsa? | 21:07 |
| zap | mplayer for n810 has no OSS support | 21:07 |
| thopiekar | aoss... | 21:07 |
| Khertan_n810 | Hi ! | 21:07 |
| zap | alsa is there | 21:07 |
| zap | you don't have to port it :) | 21:07 |
| thopiekar | hi | 21:07 |
| thopiekar | just emulated... | 21:08 |
| johnx | thopiekar, gstreamer access the dsp directly and uses it to play sound | 21:08 |
| Khertan_n810 | someone can help me i m looking for extras autorized section | 21:08 |
| zap | not quite true | 21:08 |
| Khertan_n810 | ? | 21:08 |
| zap | it's the native alsa libs, just that there are only 'software' output devices | 21:08 |
| thopiekar | I wanna port alsa without emulating | 21:08 |
| thopiekar | ... | 21:08 |
| thopiekar | possible?? | 21:08 |
| zap | you cannot | 21:08 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_n810: What's up? | 21:08 |
| johnx | thopiekar, you would need to write an entirely new sound driver | 21:08 |
| johnx | thopiekar, on a desktop linux system it looks like this: mplayer -> alsa -> sound hardware | 21:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | x-fade : i m fine and u | 21:09 |
| thopiekar | isn't it possible to get the gstreamers one (driver)? | 21:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | ? | 21:09 |
| zap | thopiekar: that your bluetooth program, it intercepts OSS or ALSA? | 21:09 |
| johnx | thopiekar, on the tablet it looks like this: mplayer -> alsa layer -> gstreamer -> dsp -> sound hardware | 21:09 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_n810: Debugging some new features for the autobuilder. | 21:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | i ll publish in a few minutes to extras devel my own calendar application ... with google calendar sync | 21:10 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, woo! | 21:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | i just need to found the right section | 21:10 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_n810: I'll give you a lit.. I'll look it up. | 21:10 |
| X-Fade | *list | 21:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | johnx : it s still alpha | 21:10 |
| thopiekar | zap, if you mean the player.. i want to bypass every oss-player into alsa with a2dp to my bluetooth speakers | 21:10 |
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| zap | thopiekar: that aoss program... it intercepts access to /dev/dsp ? | 21:11 |
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| thopiekar | has dsp something like a2dp?? | 21:11 |
| zap | no | 21:11 |
| zap | DSP is just a number crunching device | 21:11 |
| thopiekar | aoss is a script from alsa-oss | 21:12 |
| zap | with access to sound hardware, if I understand correctly | 21:12 |
| Khertan_n810 | johnx : reccurent event time dont sync on google ... but it ll be fixed in a few days | 21:12 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, i'll still play with it. :) | 21:12 |
| thopiekar | if you use you packagemanager in redpill, you will see it in your list.. | 21:12 |
| Khertan_n810 | and of course there is a home applet | 21:12 |
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| zap | what is redpill by the way... often referenced on tableeter forums? | 21:12 |
| thopiekar | "it emulates oss for alsa" | 21:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | enter the matrix | 21:13 |
| zap | qwerty12_N800: which matrix exactly :) | 21:13 |
| zap | thopiekar: well you don't have to emulate OSS here, mplayer can use alsa directly | 21:13 |
| Khertan_n810 | i must go on ... | 21:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | zap, enables a few extra features in Application manager and lets you see stuff outside of User/ | 21:13 |
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| Khertan_n810 | x-fade > i come back in twenty minute | 21:13 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_n810: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/making_application_packages.html#sections | 21:14 |
| Khertan_n810 | s | 21:14 |
| Khertan_n810 | thx | 21:14 |
| zap | GeneralAntilles: cool, and how one does it? :) | 21:14 |
| pH5 | http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/redpill.html | 21:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | zap, google. :P | 21:14 |
| zap | It allows to install any package that apt-search will show you? | 21:14 |
| zap | pH5: thank you | 21:14 |
| thopiekar | zap, i know... i wanna emulate oss ( which is used by the "onboard" mediaplayer) to hear music on my bluetooth speakers with alsa+a2dp! | 21:15 |
| thopiekar | ^^ | 21:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | zap, it's largely pointless. | 21:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | 95% of the stuff outside of User/ doesn't need to be installed by the user. | 21:15 |
| zap | GeneralAntilles: perhaps you're right, but it's a easter egg ;-) | 21:15 |
| X-Fade | thopiekar: Isn't it easier to just play your media via mplayer and a2dp ? | 21:15 |
| zap | exactly | 21:16 |
| mysc | elb, sounds like i got a defective one, eh? | 21:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | When bt headset is connected, how is all sound intercepted by hfp/hsp? | 21:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | and everything else you might as well just install through apt-get since you'll be in xterm when you need it anyway. | 21:16 |
| zap | mysc: a defective what? | 21:16 |
| mysc | n810. both the "t" and "u" produce a "tu" when clicked | 21:16 |
| zap | mysc: it seems you shouldn't drink coffee over the n810 ;-) | 21:16 |
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| mysc | it's my first boot! nothing was spilled | 21:17 |
| thopiekar | yes it is... but i want to feel the possibilities of my it^^ | 21:17 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, If I understand right, it actually gets sent into the dsp, mixed, and send back out | 21:17 |
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| X-Fade | thopiekar: You mean pain, agony and suffering? :) | 21:17 |
| zap | back out??? | 21:17 |
| johnx | zap, I'm a little fuzzy on this process too | 21:18 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | johnx, ahh :(. hope lardman ever gets sbc-dsp workng | 21:18 |
| zap | johnx: perhaps you're right, what if I play accelerated mp3, it should go to bt as well | 21:18 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, yes...though I tested the latest bluez on debian just a bit ago | 21:18 |
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| johnx | zap, yes | 21:18 |
| thopiekar | no^^ fun of hacking out possibilities^^ | 21:18 |
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| johnx | zap and qwerty12_N800, don't take my word without a grain of salt... | 21:19 |
| zap | sure we don't, we're all trying to guess here :() | 21:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | sure :) | 21:20 |
| zap | opensource, doh :) | 21:20 |
| johnx | a lot of my picture of the situation comes from post #8 on this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667 | 21:21 |
| thopiekar | this would fix my problem: | 21:22 |
| thopiekar | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/dsp-sbc/ | 21:22 |
| thopiekar | who of you is working on it? | 21:22 |
| zap | I hope he's working on it | 21:23 |
| zap | and not chitchatting here ;-) | 21:23 |
| johnx | thopiekar, ironically, it probably wouldn't solve your problem with media player | 21:23 |
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| johnx | though I could be mistaken | 21:23 |
| thopiekar | !? | 21:23 |
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| zap | hmm | 21:24 |
| zap | isn't this what you look for: http://1976th.com/bluetooth/2007/n800-simplified-instructions-for-adding-bluetooth-a2dp/ | 21:24 |
| johnx | thopiekar, your problem is that media player very specifically tells gstreamer *exactly* what to do with audio | 21:24 |
| * qwerty12_N800 loves nokia and their oss stuff. /sarcasm | 21:25 | |
| johnx | this sbc-dsp encoder would (at first) just be a way to accelerate the sbc encoding and then pass it off to also which give it to the headphones | 21:25 |
| zap | doesn't it just use playbin? | 21:25 |
| thopiekar | but dsp is the last before the hardware.. | 21:25 |
| johnx | thopiekar, the dsp can do *anything you want* | 21:25 |
| johnx | if you tell the dsp "encode this sound and give it back to me" | 21:26 |
| johnx | that's what it will do | 21:26 |
| johnx | zap, maybe? or maybe playbin2? I have no idea | 21:26 |
| zap | well playbin will autodetect anything including the sink | 21:26 |
| zap | so if you remove the mp3dsp sink, you can put any other sink in place ;) | 21:26 |
| johnx | zap, compile a custom gstreamer module/sink? | 21:27 |
| zap | by the way, Nokia mplayer is closed source? It works horribly with non-latin tags | 21:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia doesn't have an mplayer. . . . | 21:27 |
| zap | johnx: yes, that's my first priority as soon as I get a bit of free time | 21:27 |
| johnx | zap, their media player is largely closed source | 21:27 |
| zap | GeneralAntilles: I mean the builtin media player | 21:27 |
| zap | largely? | 21:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Media player" | 21:28 |
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| thopiekar | aahh i've got an other question, too... | 21:28 |
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| zap | well currently I'm interested in the part that reads the tags :) | 21:28 |
| johnx | zap, well some of its libraries are probably open | 21:28 |
| thopiekar | how can i set up eth0 on my it | 21:28 |
| thopiekar | ?? | 21:28 |
| johnx | thopiekar, it doesn't have an ethernet port | 21:28 |
| thopiekar | the asix.ko driver for my usb.adapter-to-lan works | 21:29 |
| johnx | thopiekar, the wireless device is called wlan0 and you can do networking over usb0 | 21:29 |
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| thopiekar | * thanks qwerty^^ | 21:29 |
| johnx | thopiekar, ah ok. then you can set it up with ifconfig as root | 21:29 |
| thopiekar | aha.. | 21:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | grab usblan and replace one of the included modules with the asix.ko :) | 21:29 |
| johnx | ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.123 | 21:29 |
| thopiekar | im using dhcp | 21:29 |
| thopiekar | .. | 21:29 |
| johnx | thopiekar, udhcpc -i eth0 | 21:29 |
| thopiekar | when i use usblan my it crashs | 21:30 |
| thopiekar | ... | 21:30 |
| thopiekar | then it crashs | 21:30 |
| johnx | can't help you there | 21:30 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Also to answer question from last time, there is no usbnet.ko, it's included in the kernel. | 21:30 |
| thopiekar | is then some thing bad with the driver | 21:30 |
| thopiekar | ?? | 21:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | thopiekar, i'll try repackiing usblan | 21:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | tommorow :/ | 21:30 |
| johnx | thopiekar, maybe or it could be a power issue or it could be another bug | 21:30 |
| thopiekar | ok | 21:31 |
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| thopiekar | it is... | 21:31 |
| thopiekar | i had to plug in a powered hub | 21:31 |
| thopiekar | ... | 21:31 |
| johnx | thopiekar, does it immediately turn off? does the blue light flash? does the screen slowly fade? | 21:31 |
| thopiekar | hmm mom | 21:32 |
| zap | hmm, what is the 'line' input in the mixer? does n810 have line-in ? | 21:32 |
| thopiekar | no but maybe on the mainchip..^^ | 21:32 |
| johnx | zap, well it has a mic built-in and it can accept sound in through a wired headset | 21:33 |
| johnx | I haven't play around with those volume sliders while using either though | 21:33 |
| zap | OMG, the 'line' input affects actual sound output volume (touchscreen click volume for example) | 21:34 |
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| zap | I don't understand what 'line' means here then | 21:34 |
| johnx | ah line is obviously Nokian for "labeled incorrectly" | 21:35 |
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| zap | somebody should port alsamixer | 21:35 |
| zap | this aumix looks a bit limited | 21:36 |
| zap | PCM affects volume and Line affects volume | 21:36 |
| zap | PCM much stronger | 21:36 |
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| johnx | you could probably unpack the debian armel .deb of alsamixer and just copy the binary and run it | 21:37 |
| johnx | I wouldn't install the deb though | 21:37 |
| zap | I tried that a couple of times, it doesn't work - wrong libc and so on | 21:37 |
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| zap | /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_ctl_bluetooth.so | 21:38 |
| zap | seems that bluetooth works at ALSA level too | 21:38 |
| qwerty12_N800 | someone should make some metapackages with symlinks for the debian pkgs... | 21:38 |
| zap | or better, recompile everything needed for n810 :) | 21:38 |
| zap | for *maemo | 21:38 |
| johnx | or better, just get debian running | 21:38 |
| johnx | c'mon someone...it can't be that hard | 21:39 |
| zap | with closed source drivers it is | 21:39 |
| johnx | it's over here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian | 21:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I do :). But i prefer maemo. I'm gonna look into qole's chroot stuff. | 21:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | use debian that is | 21:39 |
| zap | well, debian is not exactly a table os | 21:40 |
| zap | *tablet | 21:40 |
| zap | I prefer specialized things like maemo | 21:40 |
| johnx | not exactly...but the current tablet OS is just a stripped down, old version of debian | 21:40 |
| zap | because a full-blown linux is too heavy for such hardware | 21:41 |
| johnx | zap, it's really not | 21:41 |
| *** evaryont_ is now known as evaryont | 21:41 | |
| zap | yep, what I like is that it's stripped :) | 21:41 |
| johnx | the GUI is the most important thing to have "optimized" I think | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | It is when you factor in 256MB of flash. :P | 21:41 |
| johnx | fair enough | 21:42 |
| zap | X11 for omap is opensource? | 21:42 |
| johnx | zap, yup | 21:42 |
| johnx | and has some neat patches too :) | 21:42 |
| zap | aha, so you can take nokia's kernel and nokia's dsp stuff | 21:42 |
| zap | and the rest should be easy to recompile :) | 21:42 |
| johnx | no need to recompile | 21:42 |
| johnx | Debian has an armel distro with 10,000+ packages | 21:42 |
| * qwerty12_N800 just realised xomap = x omap after zap saying that. stupid me. | 21:42 | |
| GeneralAntilles | gj, qwerty12_N800. | 21:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | *high-five* | 21:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Thanks :p | 21:43 |
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| zap | johnx: but you can't live without maemo, microb, all thouse neat games etc, aren't you? :) | 21:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I do prefer microb over webkit imo | 21:44 |
| johnx | zap, epiphany webkit is a lot faster than microb for some things | 21:44 |
| johnx | slower for others | 21:44 |
| zap | a full-blown browser is slow | 21:45 |
| zap | I've seen firefox on zaurus sl3100 | 21:45 |
| zap | it's a horror | 21:45 |
| johnx | it's funny you should mention firefox | 21:45 |
| johnx | what do you think microb is? | 21:45 |
| zap | I know that | 21:45 |
| zap | I mean the full-blown firefox, not microb | 21:45 |
| zap | and not minimo | 21:46 |
| johnx | gah...minimo is almost worse | 21:46 |
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| johnx | but really epiphany webkit is actually faster than microb in many situations | 21:46 |
| zap | almost worse than what? | 21:46 |
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| johnx | minimo is almost worse than full firefox3 | 21:46 |
| zap | johnx: you mean epiphany on PC or on ARM? | 21:46 |
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| johnx | on my very own n800 | 21:46 |
| zap | how you run it? | 21:47 |
| johnx | in Debian | 21:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody needs to slap a decent GUI on webkit. | 21:47 |
| zap | with chroot? | 21:47 |
| johnx | zap, no | 21:47 |
| johnx | read the wiki I linked earlier | 21:47 |
| * qwerty12_N800 remembers seeing old minimo os2007 versions | 21:47 | |
| * GeneralAntilles shudders. | 21:47 | |
| johnx | well...kinda chroot in a way...but it's more of a pivot_root, then run debian's init | 21:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I still think people were lying when they said they used that steaming pile of garbage. | 21:48 |
| zap | and how far it goes? | 21:48 |
| johnx | it boots, runs, is nice to use | 21:48 |
| johnx | I have XFCE running | 21:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was so awesome, you screw up one little thing and you have to restart it to get input working again. <_< | 21:48 |
| zap | johnx: what doesn't work? | 21:48 |
| johnx | power saving needs some love... | 21:48 |
| * qwerty12_N800 <3's power saving | 21:49 | |
| zap | yep, there's no mce and systemui | 21:49 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, hey now... I didn't see a bug or a patch... | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | To minimo? | 21:49 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, aaah...minimo. I thought you meant debian | 21:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I wouldn't know where to start. :P | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | But since you brought it up, debian sux uhlot n so doez johnz | 21:49 |
| johnx | :P | 21:50 |
| johnx | too tired to come up with something clever | 21:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | >.< | 21:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | 1 - 0 GeneralAntilles | 21:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I figure Debian is worth at least 100 points. :P | 21:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, more like: 1 - 100 johnx | 21:51 |
| johnx | thanks :D | 21:51 |
| johnx | zap, the biggest problem I'm running into is figuring out how to turn on wifi power saving reliably | 21:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'course, we gotta take points away from johnx for sucking | 21:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | so, 1 - -1 GeneralAntilles | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | :P | 21:52 |
| zap | johnx: does dsp work? | 21:52 |
| johnx | yes...I borrowed Nokia's libs, etc | 21:52 |
| qwerty12_N800 | evil muhahaha | 21:52 |
| zap | but to be honest, I don't see any reason to use Debian | 21:52 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, says the hax0r del diablo himself :P | 21:52 |
| zap | I'd better concentrate on making Maemo a better place to live :) | 21:52 |
| johnx | zap, ask the 770 users how well that worked for them | 21:53 |
| *** hrw|gone is now known as hrw | 21:53 | |
| hrw | re | 21:53 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx, I still assert I didn't hack! :p | 21:53 |
| zap | johnx: I see what you're meaning, but you'll be anyway stuck to Nokia kernel | 21:53 |
| johnx | zap, though to be honest I don't see why we can't have both. | 21:53 |
| zap | and this is the most important closed piece of code (the wifi stuff etc) | 21:53 |
| zap | johnx: because having both will mean less polished every of them | 21:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | I hoping the 770 community support that's been talked about so much recently actually gets some traction from Nokia. | 21:54 |
| * qwerty12_N800 is trying to make my version number say 666 to reflect diablo :p | 21:54 | |
| johnx | zap, time I spend in Debian isn't coming out of some kind of "maemo hacking" time fund | 21:54 |
| zap | johnx: perhaps for you, not so sure about others | 21:55 |
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| johnx | zap, and what I was about to say is that the hildon libs are present in debian *as well* and some of my motivation for debian on the tablet is to get hildon to a wider audience, such as zaurus users | 21:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm still waiting for a Hildon/Matchbox that's actually usable in Debian. | 21:55 |
| zap | johnx: isn't making maemo available on zaurus a better thing? | 21:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | The virtual keyboard input is the big tripping up point for me. | 21:56 |
| zap | or perhaps porting it to Angstrom | 21:56 |
| johnx | zap, maemo isn't all open source. | 21:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | zap, the important parts of maemo are in Debian | 21:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | So that doesn't really make sense. | 21:56 |
| zap | Angstrom, Debian, ITOS... too much OSes for such a small audience | 21:56 |
| johnx | zap, yes. hildon (the core GUI libs for maemo) on zaurus is my goal | 21:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fragmentation is a big issue in the mobile space | 21:57 |
| zap | yep | 21:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | but maemo isn't something that'll solve that. | 21:57 |
| zap | everyone's going to do His Own Ultimate OS | 21:57 |
| johnx | zap, I thought about that too. I saw how fractured the zaurus community got...but I think that anyone who's really interested in debian probably wasn't going to be spending lots of time on maemo to begine with | 21:57 |
| zap | (and hist grandmother, too) | 21:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Debian + Matchbox/Hildon MIGHT be. ;) | 21:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Howdy, konttori. | 21:58 |
| johnx | an app that uses hildon for GUI stuff will work on Debian/N8x0 *and* maemo with very minor packaging tweaks | 21:58 |
| konttori | hi | 21:58 |
| zap | with Maemo you have a team of full-time paid Nokia devs behind it | 21:59 |
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| johnx | for another year | 21:59 |
| zap | with Debian you'll have a bunch of entusiasts, which will quit randomly | 21:59 |
| keesj | with maemo you do have end-user portable quality | 21:59 |
| johnx | zap, anyways, this isn't an either or situation | 21:59 |
| zap | sure | 22:00 |
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| zap | It's just my thoughts | 22:00 |
| johnx | fair enough | 22:00 |
| johnx | people may stop developing debian but the source is out there for someone to pick it up if they care. Nokia *will* drop the OS dev for the N8x0...it's only a matter of when, and most of the source isn't out there | 22:00 |
| zap | I agree, but with Debian you have the same problem | 22:01 |
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| zap | when Nokia drops n810 support, you'll be stuck with kernel 2.6.21 | 22:01 |
| johnx | zap, some of the same problem | 22:01 |
| zap | or whatever will be the last | 22:01 |
| zap | absolutely same problem | 22:01 |
| khertan | johnx: mcalendar is now available on extras-devel | 22:01 |
| khertan | X-Fade: thx for the validation | 22:02 |
| zap | no new kernel, no new dsp, no new mplayer | 22:02 |
| johnx | zap, there's more closed source in maemo than just hardware support, I hope you realize | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lots of the user-space stuff is closed. | 22:02 |
| johnx | zap, why no new mplayer? | 22:02 |
| zap | alas I don't know the full picture here | 22:02 |
| qwerty12_N800 | "MPlayer 1.0rc1-maemo.26.n8x0 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team CPU: ARM Internet Tablet OS version: 666" | 22:02 |
| zap | johnx: I mean mediaplayer, not mplayer | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Media player" | 22:02 |
| johnx | zap, I don't even use it on OS2008 :) | 22:02 |
| zap | what do you use? | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | There really isn't much point | 22:03 |
| johnx | I use mpd on debian and canola on os2008 | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | although the UPnP support is nice | 22:03 |
| zap | I'd use MediaBox but it has many bugs yet | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | and stupid fast in Diablo. | 22:03 |
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| zap | well media player is end-user friendly, my wife can use it without much thought :) | 22:03 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I'd better change the 666 before el diablo finds me. | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Try Canola? | 22:04 |
| flo_lap | re | 22:04 |
| johnx | khertan, thanks...I'll look at it | 22:04 |
| zap | GeneralAntilles: I'll try but it looks heave | 22:04 |
| zap | *heavy | 22:04 |
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| konttori | zap: canola is nice. | 22:05 |
| khertan | johnx: send me a mail if you have any remakrs | 22:05 |
| khertan | remarks | 22:05 |
| johnx | khertan, will do | 22:05 |
| konttori | Anyway, if nokia would stop supporting maemo, as someone said, the only thing not updateable really is the driver stack and it's good that no-one but really professionals are messing with radio related components anyway. | 22:06 |
| konttori | All of the rest can be easily patched upgraded and so on (well, the closed source applications would need to be replaced with opensource counterparts) | 22:06 |
| johnx | konttori, the driver stack, the browser ui, media player, image viewer I think, backlight statusbar applet, | 22:07 |
| zap | just tried canola, same partial problem with non-latin symbols in tags :( | 22:07 |
| konttori | Yeah, so it would be a little bit of work | 22:07 |
| johnx | random stuff like the control panel | 22:07 |
| qwerty12_N800 | the browser ui being closed always makes me laugh. | 22:07 |
| konttori | johnx: and so? It's not like it would disappear | 22:07 |
| johnx | well of course not | 22:08 |
| konttori | You only would need to make the parts that would need to be replaced. | 22:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Speaking of which, any answers on the wiki questions yet? | 22:08 |
| johnx | right...it's just a matter of how you replace them | 22:08 |
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| johnx | do you take the parts that *are* open source and move on? or do you try and graft on open source bits to the current OS? | 22:09 |
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| johnx | it's something users will have to consider *eventually* but for now I'd like to keep my options open...and also poking around with debian on the n800 is partially just for my own entertainment | 22:10 |
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| zap | sure, fun is the main thing in open source :) | 22:11 |
| johnx | glad we agree on something. :) | 22:11 |
| zap | I'm not really opposing you :) | 22:11 |
| ricko73 | I had a good experience with the gps this weekend | 22:11 |
| johnx | zap, and I do think hildon is the way to go (even if it's not perfect) | 22:12 |
| ricko73 | I don't know if I'm lucky or should be considered lucky, but it worked quite well with Roadmap | 22:12 |
| johnx | ricko73, that's good news | 22:12 |
| ricko73 | it took about 7 minutes to get an initial fix | 22:12 |
| johnx | I'll have to try roadmap out | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 22:12 |
| ricko73 | I then went into a store, turned off the gps. | 22:12 |
| ricko73 | Returned to the car and turned it on. The gps fix was re-acquired within 30 seconds | 22:12 |
| zap | johnx: hildon is really the best UI for small pda-like devices I've ever seen... | 22:13 |
| ricko73 | seemed to track well too | 22:13 |
| Veggen | john: agreed, the advantage with hildon is that it's close enough to gtk (and will get closer?) that it makes it easier to port applications... | 22:13 |
| Veggen | (ref the discussion about replacing the UI with something like canola) | 22:14 |
| johnx | that would be a lot of work from the ground up O_o | 22:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thoughtfix has been really disappointing lately. | 22:14 |
| johnx | but yeah, hildon on zaurus is my next step | 22:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | The whole "let's throw everything we've done out and make something new that totally sucks" line is tiresome. | 22:15 |
| johnx | I'd really like to see zaurus users get in on using and developing hildon apps | 22:15 |
| zap | johnx: as part of Angstrom? | 22:15 |
| johnx | zap, some of the base libs are in angstrom already | 22:15 |
| johnx | initially I'll probably work in zaurus/debian just because it's easier for me to build natively | 22:15 |
| zap | doh :) | 22:16 |
| johnx | hey, I like and *use* angstrom...but it's easier for me to figure things out on a native system first | 22:16 |
| zap | don't you fear you'll lose too much time on fighting with debian? | 22:17 |
| johnx | fighting where? | 22:17 |
| johnx | hmm? | 22:17 |
| zap | making it to work where it doesn't | 22:17 |
| zap | or doesn't too well | 22:17 |
| johnx | well, for my purposes it's already *there* on zaurus and n800 | 22:18 |
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| zap | does Canola have a bugtracker? I like it really, but I'd fill a bug report :) | 22:18 |
| johnx | https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?atid=529&group_id=125&func=browse | 22:19 |
| johnx | but also, look at the canola forum on itt | 22:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bugging them directly in #canola is fun, too. :P | 22:19 |
| zap | aha | 22:20 |
| keesj | GeneralAntilles: I do value hildon for what is has achieved. for some reason I dislike (A)many things that evolve around gnome. It might be an atidute thing. whas come close to describing yhr frrling is "you all treat me like a (l)user" | 22:21 |
| zap | OMG Canola is Python!!! | 22:23 |
| keesj | I just realiszed it about a few hours ago | 22:23 |
| zap | cool | 22:23 |
| keesj | Canola rulez!! | 22:23 |
| johnx | GUI complexity and options are a fine line to tread... | 22:23 |
| * qwerty12_N800 hates python | 22:23 | |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, ?! why? | 22:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800 is a h8ter. | 22:23 |
| zap | python is cool, you can fix bugs directly without needing to set up a dev env :) | 22:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Prefer the speed of "native" apps | 22:23 |
| keesj | like I would never write a tool that states this as goal http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/developers/design_goals.html | 22:24 |
| qwerty12_N800 | plus I cannot figure out how to pkg them :p | 22:24 |
| zap | qwerty12_N800: it's like using hammers and nails forever, and hating drills and such | 22:24 |
| elb | I hope NM says its goal is sucking | 22:24 |
| elb | otherwise it fails hard | 22:24 |
| qwerty12_N800 | stupid setup.py... | 22:24 |
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| elb | oh, I totally agree with all those design principles | 22:24 |
| keesj | Simplicity,Visual Clarity and Automation. it does not fail at that | 22:25 |
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| johnx | keesj, eh. if I need more complexity I'll dig into /etc/network/interfaces | 22:25 |
| johnx | but there are a lot of cases where I'm perfectly happy to let network manager do it's thing | 22:25 |
| * qwerty12_N800 h8's networkmanager too. I leave it disabled. | 22:26 | |
| johnx | I guess that makes me a luser | 22:26 |
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| zap | ohoh, just a bunch of .pyo files :) no py source | 22:27 |
| keesj | johnx: I do use it (specialy for vpn) | 22:27 |
| johnx | and you like it, or dislike it? | 22:28 |
| Saviq | hi all, anyone here using mobile mythtv? | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | zap, Canola isn't open. | 22:29 |
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| zap | oh | 22:29 |
| zap | what a surprise :) | 22:29 |
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| Saviq | I like nm quite a lot, and 0.7 does gsm, too :) | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh, the INdT guys contribute a stupid amount of stuff to open source. | 22:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Python is on maemo because of them. | 22:30 |
| etrunko | is the extras repo infinitely slow? | 22:30 |
| etrunko | or is it just me? | 22:30 |
| johnx | etrunko, only for you. :P (but honestly yes, it has problems sometimes.) | 22:30 |
| zap | GeneralAntilles: this is good or bad? | 22:30 |
| * qwerty12_N800 tries btterror on maemo... | 22:30 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Contributing to open source? I'd say it's a good thing. | 22:31 |
| zap | I just can't imagine what is a 'stupid amount' | 22:31 |
| johnx | ah, "American internet slang" | 22:31 |
| johnx | stupid = mind blowingly huge | 22:32 |
| johnx | ...in this case | 22:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ezi | 22:32 |
| zap | :) | 22:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | have some ldn ones :p | 22:32 |
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| johnx | Canola is interesting because the part that's closed source is actually probably the part that has the least amount of interesting, reusable code, from what I can tell | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it's just the front-end, basically. | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | lms, efl, etc, etc | 22:36 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Here? | 22:38 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Any "sis" unpackers exist for the tablet? Don't really feel like booting into windows... | 22:38 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, yes :) | 22:39 |
| RST38h | qwerty: I have found the cause of 100+MB VSZ reading | 22:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Great! :) | 22:39 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Not really | 22:39 |
| RST38h | If you are eating, stop | 22:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Not eating :p | 22:40 |
| RST38h | It is Maemo File-Open dialog. | 22:41 |
| RST38h | You can run pretty much ANY program using it, run "top" in a separate ssh | 22:41 |
| RST38h | The invoke that fucking dialog and see program's VSZ grow. You don't need to actually open a file, just click Cancel - the dialog will disappear but the VSZ will stay above 100MB | 22:42 |
| johnx | wow...yet more reasons to hate it | 22:42 |
| RST38h | Whoever feels like filing a bug with Nokia, please do it | 22:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | wtf. you should steal fbreader open dialog | 22:42 |
| RST38h | I can't make myself do it, sorry | 22:43 |
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| RST38h | I have my own old-skool open dialog, but want to stay within style guidelines for Maemo | 22:43 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | The guy who made fbreader open dialog did brilliant job, never seen a faster one on my n800. | 22:43 |
| RST38h | Unfortunately, this misfeature does not explain the iNES slowdown problem | 22:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | You found the bug, you get the honor of filing it. ;) | 22:44 |
| johnx | anyways, good talking to you all, but I need to catch some sleep. 'night | 22:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | night | 22:44 |
| RST38h | General: it is 23:45, I had a day of work + commute | 22:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Save it for the morning, then. :P | 22:45 |
| RST38h | The maximum I can do is bitch about it on ITT | 22:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, In Russia? :) | 22:45 |
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| * qwerty12_N800 pǝɹoq sı | 22:47 | |
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| RST38h | zap: I am. Sorry, can't send private messages. | 22:50 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: I can't read what you have just written - it's probably Unicode and IRCII does not support it | 22:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe, its flipped text saying i'm bored :) | 22:51 |
| qwerty12_N800 | btw, xchat ftw ;) | 22:51 |
| RST38h | it's an ssh session to a box in Connecticut | 22:52 |
| RST38h | running xchat over it would be a bit too fat | 22:53 |
| derf | That's what irssi is for. | 22:53 |
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| * RST38h has used ircii for ages, no way he is switching to a different client now | 22:53 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | Ah. I should install bitchx, ircii and weechat for fun again :p | 22:54 |
| RST38h | bitchx - definitely sucks | 22:54 |
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| RST38h | irssi - may be good, do not know | 22:54 |
| RST38h | xchat - nice X client | 22:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 22:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | irssi is the best console client ever. | 22:54 |
| * RST38h hasn't tried | 22:55 | |
| glass | irssi rocks | 22:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | You're missing out. | 22:55 |
| glass | it's like ircii or bitchx with a good script..without having to mess with scripts | 22:55 |
| RST38h | we do have it on the system, somebody uses it...a moment | 22:55 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ircii is that fugly one afaik. before, i was misreading ircii with irssi | 22:55 |
| * GeneralAntilles <3's irssi-proxy. | 22:55 | |
| GeneralAntilles | 3 NITs, one nick. | 22:56 |
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| RST38bis | umgh | 22:56 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | OmG, RST38h was cloned! | 22:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :o | 22:56 |
| RST38bis | /names command kinda sucks here | 22:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | which client? | 22:57 |
| RST38bis | does not show a nice condensed list like ircii | 22:57 |
| RST38bis | oh well | 22:57 |
| RST38bis | irssi | 22:57 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | irssi is da shit! | 22:58 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :p | 22:58 |
| RST38h | looks bitchxy | 22:58 |
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| RST38h | not as "eleet" as bitchx though :) | 22:58 |
| glass | irssi has themes | 22:59 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | weechat is probably the only prog i've seen that sets osso-xterms's title | 23:00 |
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| zap | qwerty12_N800: mc does it too | 23:05 |
| zap | but both versions I've seen are hell buggy | 23:05 |
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| Cptnodegard | http://xkcd.com/424/ | 23:21 |
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| RST38h | "By today's standards, all of the Convicts sent to Australia had only committed trivial crimes. The serious crimes, such as rape, murder, or impersonating an Egyptian, were punished with the death penality." | 23:40 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Have you impersonated an Egyptian lately? | 23:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | No :p | 23:41 |
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| RST38h | pity | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | walk like an egyptian ;) | 23:41 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | That's that dodgy bangles song :p | 23:42 |
| johnx | there was a good punk cover of it though | 23:43 |
| Navi | zomg | 23:43 |
| johnx | I forgot who did it at the moment | 23:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Go to bed. | 23:43 |
| Navi | Your sleep habits must be fux'd up, johnx | 23:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lol | 23:44 |
| johnx | yeah | 23:44 |
| johnx | comes from working the night shift :/ | 23:44 |
| Navi | :P | 23:44 |
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| johnx | plus I decided to work on my website...I can still get plenty of sleep before work tonight | 23:44 |
| Navi | woo | 23:45 |
| Navi | secks | 23:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I need to be getting me some sleep. 9:45 but i know I wont. This channel keeps me awake :p | 23:45 |
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| * Navi knocks qwerty12_N800 with a mallet | 23:46 | |
| Navi | Eh | 23:46 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Ow. | 23:46 |
| GnutoN810 | hi | 23:46 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi | 23:46 |
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| halley | I've come across an SDL_ttf problem in pygame on OS2008, and it seems to match this I found on Google: http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=446734 | 23:57 |
| halley | It looks like the appropriate solution that people found was to go up to a later freetype2 build, but it appears I've got the latest known for OS2008. | 23:57 |
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| kpel | hi all | 23:58 |
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