IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-04-01

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lcuk	KotCzarny, ok then, here are the 3d drivers, you get on with nvn ;) http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us	00:01
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tsukasa_	sup	00:19
KotCzarny	monday	00:19
tsukasa_	anyone heard anything about the n800 doing a price drop?	00:19
KotCzarny	all thye time	00:19
GeneralAntilles	It's not gonna get any lower.	00:19
KotCzarny	:)	00:19
tsukasa_	:<	00:20
KotCzarny	get them while they're hot!	00:20
KotCzarny	;)	00:20
GeneralAntilles	Well, maybe it will if you're not in the US.	00:20
GeneralAntilles	But It wont get any lower in the US.	00:20
lcuk	it might do	00:21
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GeneralAntilles	Much lower and you hit the "why are we selling these things again?" stage.	00:22
rektide	besides gps and keyboard, is there any advantage to the N800?	00:22
GeneralAntilles	N810, you mean?	00:23
rektide	advantage to the N810	00:23
KotCzarny	nope	00:23
rektide	yeah pardon	00:23
GeneralAntilles	Transflective display	00:23
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, ya but its a bit pricey for students still	00:23
KotCzarny	only disadvantages	00:23
KotCzarny	like n800 has 2 sdhs slots	00:23
GeneralAntilles	Everything is pricy for students.	00:23
lcuk	what, like all their phone models ? i can pick up old model nokias which were £3-400 new for peanuts now, still brand new mint in the box	00:23
KotCzarny	so it's ~ 64gb of flash	00:23
KotCzarny	:)	00:23
GeneralAntilles	Your personal budget doesn't determine component costs. ;)	00:23
rektide	yes the dual SDHC are pushing me towards a N800	00:23
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, maybe so but they can die shrink	00:23
rektide	also i like bluetooth keyboards more than small integrated ones	00:23
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, id be willing to bet they arent at 45nm	00:23
GeneralAntilles	tsukasa_, that doesn't change component costs.	00:24
GeneralAntilles	Of course they aren't	00:24
KotCzarny	tsukasa: how about second hand?	00:24
KotCzarny	i got mine for 150$	00:24
GeneralAntilles	OMAP2 will never be at 45nm	00:24
tsukasa_	hmm maybe	00:24
KotCzarny	with screen protectors already	00:24
KotCzarny	:)	00:24
GeneralAntilles	That doesn't change the price of all the other parts.	00:24
lcuk	rektide, i have an 810 AND i have a bt keyboard. the 810 thumb board is such a relief to have because there will be somewhere you go that needs a board and you KNOW you wont have an extra one all the time	00:24
GeneralAntilles	The fullscreen keyboard on the N800 is really quite workable.	00:25
lcuk	i agree its workable, but its distracting	00:25
KotCzarny	yup	00:25
lcuk	especially compared to the one just below my screen	00:25
KotCzarny	we need transluent osk	00:25
KotCzarny	then it would rock	00:25
lcuk	get the pvr working and that stops being a problem :)	00:26
KotCzarny	nope	00:26
KotCzarny	1fps will be enough	00:26
KotCzarny	for that	00:26
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lcuk	you say this, but its not - i type at more than 1 fps, you have to update both the screen in the background, then merge with the actual board	00:26
rektide	have we heard any communication about possible use of the PowerVR stuff onboard?	00:26
rektide	i presume its still totally unutilized	00:27
KotCzarny	lcuk: then it should include 'type string' field too	00:27
lcuk	yes, we have heard ERROR: null pointer	00:27
KotCzarny	erm. typed string	00:27
rektide	your joke is crude but i think i get the point	00:27
lcuk	but your 1fps wouldnt work, because i have to merge my string with the background	00:28
lcuk	its the blending that kills it: to answer blendtec: no it won't blend.	00:28
KotCzarny	lcuk: have you seen full screen osk mode?	00:28
lcuk	yes i had it on for a while at first	00:28
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KotCzarny	then add transluency to it	00:28
lcuk	before i abandoned it because it was flakey	00:29
KotCzarny	that's my point	00:29
KotCzarny	ie. i would like osk that:	00:29
KotCzarny	1/ full screen	00:29
KotCzarny	2/ thumb friendly	00:29
KotCzarny	3/ transluent	00:30
lcuk	but thats the point i am making, to backup a screen full of pixels(desktop) and merge with a screen full of pixels(kb) into the framebuffer takes time	00:30
KotCzarny	4/ could include 'typed string field' for quick corrections	00:30
KotCzarny	may be refreshed at 30fps	00:30
KotCzarny	and whole background at 1fps	00:30
lcuk	try it yourself with a static image	00:30
KotCzarny	lcuk: i have tried xcompmgr	00:31
KotCzarny	it works	00:31
lcuk	take a screenshot of the standard screen and a screenshot of the keyboard	00:31
lcuk	and use photoshop or whatever	00:31
KotCzarny	slow, but ~10fps	00:31
lcuk	lets see how it looks	00:31
lcuk	does xcomp work then?	00:31
KotCzarny	yes	00:31
KotCzarny	but slow	00:31
KotCzarny	because of lacking pvr drivers	00:31
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KotCzarny	you don't even have to flash or reboot	00:32
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KotCzarny	it's runtime tunable	00:32
lcuk	and does it give effect your after? or is it too slow?	00:32
KotCzarny	wanna binary?	00:32
KotCzarny	you will test yourself	00:32
KotCzarny	it only enables windows shadows	00:33
KotCzarny	and probably whole transparency in xomap	00:33
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KotCzarny	but i didn't have anything to test it	00:33
lcuk	hang on, i saw something last night	00:33
KotCzarny	maybe with cairo i could test	00:33
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KotCzarny	http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/utils/xcompmgr	00:35
lcuk	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16720&page=2	00:35
lcuk	cairo indeed :)	00:36
lcuk	scroll down there	00:36
KotCzarny	yeah	00:36
KotCzarny	i have seen it	00:36
lcuk	there is an example of clock plugin for maemo desktop	00:36
* lcuk knew this conversation sounded familiar		00:36
KotCzarny	;)	00:36
rektide	what X does os2008 use?	00:37
KotCzarny	xomap	00:37
oob	question - can the n810 use monitor mode on its wireless interface?	00:37
lcuk	maybe worth a cairo test outside the desktop	00:37
GeneralAntilles	Xomap	00:37
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rektide	alright, hadnt heard of that one, thanks	00:38
lcuk	oob? monitor mode? you mean display a screen on a monitor or monitor debug output	00:38
KotCzarny	kismet	00:38
KotCzarny	;)	00:38
oob	use, monitor mode as in "kismet." monitor mode as opposed to ad-hoc or managed	00:38
GeneralAntilles	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_mode	00:38
lcuk	ahhh ty	00:39
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GeneralAntilles	I wonder how many people actually want to use kismet for valid research or job-related tasks. <_<	00:40
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GeneralAntilles	Be nice if the WiMAX model could work in master.	00:40
KotCzarny	oob: i guess it's possible	00:40
GeneralAntilles	Make a neat little WiMAX hotspot.	00:40
KotCzarny	because i have seen util to turn off monitor mode	00:40
KotCzarny	without reboot	00:40
KotCzarny	;)	00:40
oob	GeneralAntilles, i do. i legitimately want to use other people's internet connections	00:41
oob	KotCzarny, thanks	00:41
KotCzarny	don't know if you won't have to compile another driver for wlan though	00:41
GeneralAntilles	Pfft	00:42
GeneralAntilles	That's never legitimate.	00:42
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oob	the "want" is legitimate	00:42
lcuk	yes it is. just because he has to knock the door down to get access doesnt mean its not legitimate	00:43
tsukasa_	so wimax has nothing to do with wireless n right? the wimax chip is its own thing and doesnt do backwards compat with n/g/etc	00:43
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KotCzarny	yes	00:43
tsukasa_	that sucks	00:43
KotCzarny	it's more like gsm	00:43
KotCzarny	than wlan	00:43
tsukasa_	they making a n version of the n810 i hope	00:43
lcuk	does it roam?	00:43
tsukasa_	or 800 actually	00:43
GeneralAntilles	tsukasa_, WiMAX is basically cellular data	00:43
lcuk	is can i use it on the train?	00:43
KotCzarny	lcuk: probably	00:44
GeneralAntilles	and/or last-mile data	00:44
lcuk	cool	00:44
GeneralAntilles	Why would they make an N version of an old device?	00:44
KotCzarny	it has range of ~70km	00:44
rektide	and its made of rainbows	00:44
KotCzarny	so it would take some time between roams	00:44
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, not all of us want gps	00:44
lcuk	_+ built up areas , ymmv	00:44
rektide	we'll see what its actual delivery is	00:44
lcuk	not all of us get it	00:44
GeneralAntilles	tsukasa_, why would they update an OMAP2 device when OMAP3 is coming out?	00:44
tsukasa_	omap?	00:45
GeneralAntilles	You can't even saturate G with either device.	00:45
rektide	WiMAX is slower than G	00:45
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, its not about the saturation its about the range	00:45
GeneralAntilles	rektide, I'd hope so. :P	00:45
KotCzarny	G has very short range	00:45
KotCzarny	also	00:45
rektide	they added it because it was easy to add.	00:45
GeneralAntilles	Meh, N range isn't all it's cracked up to be.	00:45
lcuk	wimax connected at ANY speed is better than wifi disconnected.	00:45
KotCzarny	wimax can be fast	00:45
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, its a hell of a lot better then G	00:46
glass	wimax needs a wimax network	00:46
KotCzarny	G needs	00:46
KotCzarny	G network	00:46
rektide	you'd have to redesign the mobo for OMAP3, adding WiMAX was just throwing on another chip	00:46
glass	who of you lives in covered area?	00:46
glass	umts would be better	00:46
rektide	covered by what?	00:46
glass	covered by wimax	00:46
rektide	yes, yes it would glass.	00:46
KotCzarny	A commonly-held misconception is that WiMAX will deliver 70 Mbit/s over 50 kilometers. In reality, WiMAX can do one or the other \u2014 operating over maximum range (50 km) increases bit error rate and thus must use a lower bitrate. Lowering the range allows a device to operate at higher bitrates.	00:46
glass	with umts, i see no need for wimax	00:46
glass	i'm using umts right now	00:46
GeneralAntilles	Canada	00:46
KotCzarny	so at short ranges it's FASTER than G	00:47
GeneralAntilles	WiMAX is the holy grail up there.	00:47
rektide	the only advantage of wimax is i think you can get infrastructure for public bands. not so with umts / hspda	00:47
GeneralAntilles	glass, I agree.	00:47
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rektide	the G extensions for 108mbps are fairly intercompatible	00:47
KotCzarny	also, G is fairly crowded	00:48
rektide	then again i only use atheros gear so of course they're intercompaitble....	00:48
KotCzarny	so you won't max out it	00:48
lcuk	LOCALLY yes, but can you take your G out wherever you are?	00:48
KotCzarny	also wimax band will be probably private	00:49
KotCzarny	so you won't have problems with neighbours	00:49
lcuk	This spec is mooted as a 1Gbit/s version of WiMax,	00:49
lcuk	hmmm Manchester ahead of the game :)	00:50
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lcuk	http://www.itweek.co.uk/itweek/comment/2184698/manchester-gets-ahead-game	00:50
* lcuk dances cos he can already do wiman		00:51
lcuk	x	00:51
oob	but is it worth the price of living in manchester?	00:51
glass	theres a network on the old gsm band here	00:51
lcuk	i admit, thats a terrible drag, but now I am here i might as well make use of it.	00:51
glass	err... nmt	00:51
glass	horribly expensive service with transfer limits and shit	00:52
lcuk	actually, no its not - Manchester is amazing. we started the computer revolution. we have a great uni	00:52
lcuk	we have ermmm chip shops	00:52
lcuk	and drug dealers	00:52
lcuk	ok youre right	00:52
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glass	long range, good bw in theory but the cells are so big they get crowded i imagine, so the need for limits	00:52
lcuk	or just use more cells at the higher bandwidth	00:53
lcuk	large range/low density will be great for canada type places	00:53
lcuk	short range high density will be good for city centre	00:53
tsukasa_	lcuk, canada type places... you mean the middle of nowhere? ;)	00:54
lcuk	well, you are somewhere but its a long walk into town	00:54
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lcuk	hang on, wimax is microwave. are we really expected to use microwaves on our laptops/portables? what happens to our ermmm fixed assets?	00:57
GeneralAntilles	WiMAX doesn't have a spectrum.	00:57
rektide	my biggest interest will be ltanecy	00:57
tsukasa_	anyone else feel like nokia is just making shit up as they go?	00:58
rektide	if wimax has better latency than HSDPA that'll be sweet	00:58
tsukasa_	intel has these nice 5 year roadmaps	00:58
tsukasa_	nokia its like	00:58
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tsukasa_	so........ new product....... uhh........ black?	00:58
rektide	intel doesnt announce consumer products	00:58
lcuk	isnt that how they make their phones?	00:58
rektide	they also currently have no competition	00:58
tsukasa_	rektide, yeah they do	00:58
lcuk	eeny meeny miny mo, which color shall we go	00:58
tsukasa_	sandy bridge '10	00:58
rektide	i guess in the mobile world, they're trying to do something now that they sold off their ARM division	00:59
* KotCzarny could use black faceplate for n800		00:59
KotCzarny	:)	00:59
lcuk	spray paint	00:59
rektide	re-break into the market	00:59
KotCzarny	this one is too shiny	00:59
GeneralAntilles	tsukasa_, they have a plan	00:59
GeneralAntilles	it's just not open	00:59
KotCzarny	spray paint is unhealthy	00:59
rektide	spray paint looks awsome if done right	00:59
rektide	aka crudely	00:59
GeneralAntilles	as they aren't trying to sell their stuff to OEMs and developers.	00:59
KotCzarny	more like toxic	00:59
KotCzarny	:)	00:59
lcuk	rubberised matt as well	00:59
rektide	GA: exactly	00:59
GeneralAntilles	Nokia is selling to consumers, so their plan is closed	00:59
GeneralAntilles	Like Apple.	00:59
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lcuk	they sound like cylons	00:59
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, you sound like you know someone on the inside	01:00
rektide	uhhh what?	01:00
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, does the letter N mean anything to you?	01:00
tsukasa_	>>	01:00
rektide	what makes you say that tsukasa?	01:00
rektide	oh you just want someone to talk about N. :/	01:00
tsukasa_	just a guess	01:00
tsukasa_	yes	01:00
GeneralAntilles	I know people on the inside	01:00
rektide	but why? you cant even max out a G.	01:00
KotCzarny	no kia	01:00
tsukasa_	rektide, range	01:00
GeneralAntilles	but I'm not privy to any privalaged information.	01:00
rektide	what you need is a bluetooth wifi-N adapter. :)	01:01
lcuk	and the fact that all mobile phone operators are setting up to supply worldwide wimax	01:01
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, is the leap from n810 to the next iteration a substantial improvement eg 790 to 800	01:01
GeneralAntilles	You'd know them too if you'd been involved with the community as long as I've been.	01:01
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, or is it like more of the same	01:01
rektide	umts is already here, wimax is just a promise	01:01
* lcuk didnt know there were nokia ppl lurking		01:01
GeneralAntilles	Like I said, I'm not privy to anything privileged.	01:01
Paavo	who's lurking?	01:01
glass	tsukasa_: nokias roadmaps are in-house	01:01
lcuk	umts needs a sim	01:01
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rektide	there's really not that much further the OMAP2 can go.	01:02
lcuk	i suppose wimax will as well	01:02
GeneralAntilles	There's no such thing as a "790"	01:02
tsukasa_	780*	01:02
lcuk	770*	01:02
rektide	try 770	01:02
KotCzarny	..yet	01:02
tsukasa_	thank you	01:02
lcuk	:) np	01:02
KotCzarny	nokia has weird policy on device numbering	01:02
GeneralAntilles	Bigger, is my guess.	01:02
tsukasa_	not as weird as say microsoft	01:02
KotCzarny	so we may yet see N123	01:02
GeneralAntilles	OMAP3 is some hot shit.	01:02
KotCzarny	for example	01:02
rektide	OMAP3 is pretty sweet.	01:02
glass	KotCzarny: numbering is just marketing..	01:02
tsukasa_	xbox 360... what happened to the other 358 models	01:02
glass	KotCzarny: others have just as weird	01:02
tsukasa_	thrown out? ;)	01:03
KotCzarny	one expects the higher the better	01:03
GeneralAntilles	They burnt up in a fire when their power supplies lit up.	01:03
tsukasa_	haha +1	01:03
rektide	i want to see what Freescale kicks out of their next ARM line. TI keeps licensing PowerVR, Freescale's gone the ATI Mobility route.	01:03
glass	KotCzarny: nokia naming conventions arent at least as fucked up as motos	01:03
KotCzarny	yeah	01:03
GeneralAntilles	Nokia at least sticks with numbers.	01:03
KotCzarny	Wjfr73mcde	01:03
glass	KotCzarny: n and e series are at least symbian, apart from putting n800/n810 in nseries naming too	01:04
lcuk	kot thats not as good as the Wjfr73mcdf	01:04
KotCzarny	symbian?	01:04
Paavo	Nokia TBLT!	01:04
KotCzarny	say, n800 ?	01:04
KotCzarny	;)	01:04
GeneralAntilles	tsukasa_, all of my information is just from being involved in the community for a long time.	01:04
GeneralAntilles	Haha, Paavo.	01:04
GeneralAntilles	I like it!	01:04
lcuk	paavo, nokia Toasted BLT :)	01:04
lcuk	mmmmm	01:04
KotCzarny	T-BLT!	01:04
glass	then again they got symbian phones, very recent, that are in the just numbers ranger	01:04
lcuk	Nokia N series T-BLT '08 :)	01:05
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, yeah, i just feel like, nokia is going to announce a very sexy next-gen model which will make the 800 old news	01:05
rektide	is the N810 any bigger than the N800?	01:05
glass	and reusing old numbers with 'classic' or 'navigator', thats the biggest suck in nokia naming	01:05
lcuk	open or closed?	01:05
GeneralAntilles	tsukasa_, do some research on the OMAP3430	01:05
rektide	well, theres really not much further to take the OMAP2.	01:05
rektide	the next release will almost certainly be an OMAP3	01:05
GeneralAntilles	rektide, it's smaller but heavier.	01:05
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glass	nokias reason for releasing a wimax device would be to have a wimax device in the range	01:05
rektide	which? the N810 is smaller?	01:05
GeneralAntilles	N810	01:05
lcuk	yes, the coolness density has increased :)	01:06
KotCzarny	in europe it's april first already	01:06
rektide	thats unexpected.	01:06
glass	not any other reason	01:06
GeneralAntilles	Or the fail	01:06
Paavo	well, 3110 and 6110 are old enough numbers to recycle	01:06
* lcuk slides		01:06
KotCzarny	let's check nokia.com	01:06
KotCzarny	;)	01:06
GeneralAntilles	depending on your point of view.	01:06
rektide	i would've thoght the keyboard had made it considerably thicker	01:06
GeneralAntilles	Thinner, actually.	01:06
glass	Paavo: if people werent using them still... but they are :)	01:06
Paavo	besides, they were running out of numbers really	01:06
GeneralAntilles	That's part of the reason we lost the twin cardslots.	01:06
lcuk	rek, reshaping means the camera popout gone - its all square now	01:06
lcuk	the 800 had a fat bit	01:06
GeneralAntilles	The N810 is really packed in there.	01:06
glass	Paavo: i'd rather have them put the s40 in some other naming range and s60's in one	01:06
lcuk	a big bum	01:06
rektide	damnit now i'm conflicked	01:06
KotCzarny	square camera takes square photos?	01:06
KotCzarny	:)	01:07
GeneralAntilles	I'd get the N800, personally.	01:07
lcuk	snowy square photos	01:07
rektide	how do the cameras compare N800 v. N810?	01:07
rektide	the dual SD are very very tempting	01:07
GeneralAntilles	The price hike with the N810 isn't worth it to me.	01:07
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KotCzarny	rektide: same sh*t	01:07
GeneralAntilles	Both suck, rektide.	01:07
KotCzarny	;)	01:07
Paavo	ah yes, 1st of april. must remember that.	01:07
GeneralAntilles	The N800's can move around, though.	01:07
tsukasa_	TI processors... meh.	01:07
rektide	fuck micro-sd	01:07
tsukasa_	they should stick VIAs new processor in it	01:07
lcuk	paavo? not yet and you must know the models	01:07
KotCzarny	n820 should include a flash	01:07
GeneralAntilles	Screw that shit	01:07
rektide	there are better ARM than TI's OMAP.	01:07
GeneralAntilles	TI's the best in the range.	01:07
KotCzarny	ie. photo flash	01:07
Paavo	lcuk: it is in my timezone	01:07
tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, have you read about VIAs new chip?	01:07
GeneralAntilles	Yes	01:08
tsukasa_	so why do you think TI is better?	01:08
GeneralAntilles	Mobile x86 does not impress me.	01:08
rektide	Marvell's new ARM >> OMAP but more power hungry. I like Freescale best for mobile but its pretyt on par with TI.	01:08
lcuk	paavo :) not for another hour here	01:08
rektide	Mobile x86 is a terrible idea	01:08
lcuk	eugh	01:08
KotCzarny	ah, relativity	01:08
GeneralAntilles	tsukasa_, simply put, because they are. ;)	01:08
lcuk	i wouldnt like 86	01:08
KotCzarny	x96	01:08
* lcuk spits on the assembly		01:08
glass	rektide: well, for small windows running laptops it's not.. for anything else, probably yes	01:08
* lcuk hugs omap		01:08
tsukasa_	cellphones/smartphones are just small laptops though	01:09
lcuk	i would like to see multicore niceness	01:09
glass	yes	01:09
KotCzarny	not true	01:09
glass	but not windows running	01:09
rektide	someday tsukasa. thast the dream.	01:09
KotCzarny	usability is different	01:09
lcuk	my 810 is a small laptop	01:09
rektide	lcuk: nintendo DS is multicore.	01:09
GeneralAntilles	Power consumption is a very important part of what makes the NITs work.	01:09
lcuk	mmmmmmmmm rektide	01:09
rektide	and the DS is 5 years old	01:09
GeneralAntilles	Mobile x86 would not fit the power requirements.	01:09
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KotCzarny	lcuk: lapalmtop	01:10
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tsukasa_	GeneralAntilles, i dont know about that, Intels Atom processor takes what? 3W?	01:10
rektide	the only thing holding ARM back right now is the display subsystems	01:10
rektide	and thats about to change	01:10
GeneralAntilles	TI's talking 2009 for dual-core A9s	01:10
GeneralAntilles	Lot more than the OMAP SoCs.	01:10
rektide	ARM would make a fine computer, but the best output you'll get is 1280x1024 with shite performance.	01:10
rektide	upgrade the graphics side of ARM and ARM will make awsome portable computers	01:10
Paavo	how much power did they get out of those nuclear batteries anyway? that would provide a decent battery life.	01:10
KotCzarny	rektide: my laptop is 1024x768	01:10
glass	"graphics side of arm" ?	01:10
KotCzarny	;)	01:10
rektide	your laptop is crap. ;)	01:10
glass	"of arm platforms"	01:11
KotCzarny	nope it isn't	01:11
KotCzarny	ibm x32 ;)	01:11
glass	what gpu's do those arm desktopts have?	01:11
glass	hmm	01:11
rektide	i dont know of any ARM desktops atm	01:11
KotCzarny	put your n8x0 on the deks	01:11
rektide	but next gen ARMs have some very impressive graphics subsystems tacked on	01:11
KotCzarny	desk	01:11
KotCzarny	voila!	01:11
KotCzarny	dektop arm	01:11
KotCzarny	:)	01:11
rektide	AMD/ATI and PowerVR have licensed out some pretty nice OpenGL 2.0 silicon IP,	01:12
glass	rektide: i seem to remember that there were some	01:12
GeneralAntilles	OMAP3'll put all of our graphics issues to bed.	01:12
rektide	the only real question is if there will be enough bandwidth to power 1920x1200.	01:12
rektide	;)	01:12
rektide	Omap3 went PowerVR again, right?	01:12
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	01:12
* KotCzarny shrugs		01:12
jott	GeneralAntilles: omap3 + crappy lcd controller - we know our NIT engineers :P	01:13
GeneralAntilles	Why would they?	01:13
GeneralAntilles	The built-in controller supports 800x480 just fine	01:13
rektide	jott is too right, even if i dont know who NIT is	01:13
GeneralAntilles	They could go 1024x600 just fine, even.	01:13
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glass	the built in chip in n95/e90 does pretty good looking stuff already	01:13
rektide	have you owned a P1000 perchance GeneralAntilles?	01:13
jott	GeneralAntilles: still i bet they mess up something ;)	01:13
rektide	glass: but the resolution is low enough to make that easy.	01:13
GeneralAntilles	Never heard of it, rektide.	01:14
KotCzarny	glass: n95 has the SAME pvr chip as n8x0	01:14
KotCzarny	the only difference is support	01:14
KotCzarny	:/	01:14
rektide	most of the Fujitsu P1000 laptops run 1024x600. Mine's an 800 mhz crusoe, 8.9" touchscreen.	01:14
KotCzarny	no driver for tablets	01:14
glass	KotCzarny: yeah	01:14
rektide	i did not know that Kot.	01:14
KotCzarny	pity.	01:14
KotCzarny	:/	01:14
glass	rektide: you know e90's inner screen?	01:14
glass	rektide: obviously not	01:14
rektide	no we just have a stack of N95's here at work	01:15
KotCzarny	different os	01:15
glass	800x352	01:15
glass	it's got accelerated video decoding too	01:16
glass	very nice	01:16
rektide	thats an insane resolution	01:16
glass	h264	01:16
rektide	i want a samsung NV24 HD.	01:16
rektide	its a point and shoot camera that does 720P video recording with H264.	01:16
GeneralAntilles	IVA2, baby.	01:16
GeneralAntilles	That shit will scream. :D	01:16
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rektide	its all about to change. :p	01:17
rektide	OpenGL2.0	01:17
rektide	its definitely a game changer	01:17
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rektide	iphone has it but i hate the iphone	01:19
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rektide	they actually have a sweet implementation, given the absolutely crap hardware it runs on	01:19
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KotCzarny	:)	01:19
glass	iphones mhz is way higher though no?	01:19
rektide	they use LLVM to optimize the fuck out of software opengl	01:19
rektide	yes	01:19
KotCzarny	yeah, software is the other 50% of good device	01:19
rektide	but most of the speed comes from the compiler tricks they use to accelerate opengl	01:20
rektide	its very very intelligent	01:20
rektide	but again, all the next gen solutions are going ot have onboard silicon dedicated to opengl	01:20
rektide	thats where it starts becoming game changing	01:20
KotCzarny	aren't they have it already?	01:20
KotCzarny	pvr?	01:20
glass	only very few nokia phones have hw 3d accel now	01:21
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glass	n96 again doesn't	01:21
rektide	thats definitely not opengl2.0 compliant. it can accelerate some 3d calculations, but its way way way way short of a full 3d pipeline	01:21
glass	opengl es is common	01:21
rektide	yes but its usually just done in software on the CPU, sometimes with a coprocessor to accelerate some 3d math.	01:21
glass	it's usually fully sw	01:22
rektide	and thats whats changing	01:22
KotCzarny	transparency acceleration will be enough for shiny factor	01:22
KotCzarny	:)	01:22
rektide	the one thing that makes me sad is that the OpenGL ES libraries to accelerate SVG are either crazy expensive or really primitive. we need better vector art acceleration too.	01:23
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rektide	the day Macromedia puts out opengl es accelerated flash is the day i consider installing it.	01:23
GeneralAntilles	Ha	01:24
glass	hmmh	01:24
KotCzarny	hehe	01:24
KotCzarny	\|> Holly Dolly - Dolly Song.avi	01:24
glass	the new firmware for n95 has youtube videos working in the browser	01:25
glass	iirc	01:25
KotCzarny	hmm	01:25
glass	been out for couple of days	01:25
KotCzarny	we have that already on n8x0 ?	01:25
KotCzarny	:)	01:25
glass	just making conversation of flash on mobiles :)	01:26
KotCzarny	oh	01:26
KotCzarny	:)	01:26
rektide	we can compare the pvr v. non-pvr accelerated versions	01:26
rektide	(assuming the pvr is in use on the n95 for this)	01:26
glass	dunno if it uses any accels	01:26
KotCzarny	it is	01:26
glass	i havent installed the new fw's	01:26
rektide	yeah i understand theres an entire output stage on the pvr	01:26
glass	i'd need more n95's	01:26
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rektide	theres 6 at work here, one devel has 3 of them though.	01:27
glass	it's rap that you can't easily downgrade the fw	01:27
glass	+c	01:27
dtahtbot	glass: Error: "c" is not a valid command.	01:27
glass	aha	01:27
GeneralAntilles	Ha	01:27
GeneralAntilles	Fail	01:27
rektide	was the +c intentional? what does it mean?	01:28
GeneralAntilles	crap	01:28
GeneralAntilles	s/crap/rap/	01:28
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: rap	01:28
rektide	lol, wow.	01:28
rektide	thanks bot	01:28
GeneralAntilles	SED bot to the rescue!	01:28
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GeneralAntilles	~lart infobot	01:28
* infobot rm -rf's generalantilles		01:28
rektide	if you dont know perl regex you just dont know jack	01:28
GeneralAntilles	;_;	01:29
rektide	i kid i kid	01:29
GeneralAntilles	Too bad infobot doesn't have the right permissions for me.	01:29
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rektide	i wonder how many xkcd comics arent understood	01:30
KotCzarny	many	01:30
GeneralAntilles	Depends on who reads them.	01:30
rektide	just net total	01:30
rektide	i think that'd be itneresting	01:30
KotCzarny	not really	01:30
KotCzarny	:)	01:30
rektide	30,000,000 page views made no sense to the reader	01:30
KotCzarny	it will mean only how many people used some kind of *nix	01:30
rektide	they all make sense to me but i'm a hardcore geek programmer	01:31
rektide	but theres enough catchy ones that it must have a non *nix audience too by now	01:31
KotCzarny	rektide: and there's title tag to the rescue	01:31
KotCzarny	:)	01:31
KotCzarny	if joke isn't clear at the first sight	01:32
rektide	its so sad but so necessary that title tag instructions hae to be repeated with every single reference to xkcd	01:32
rektide	hey i never noticed the title tag is the "so, you missed the joke in the panels" portion	01:33
KotCzarny	:)	01:33
KotCzarny	not really	01:33
KotCzarny	it's a part of the joke sometimes	01:33
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KotCzarny	erm.	01:33
KotCzarny	scratch that	01:33
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KotCzarny	i agree	01:33
KotCzarny	:)	01:33
rektide	stupid firefox is truncating my title tags.	01:33
KotCzarny	properties	01:34
KotCzarny	and read again	01:34
KotCzarny	:)	01:34
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rektide	i normally read with opera, just using firefox for dev work	01:34
KotCzarny	you can read whole tag in properties	01:34
rektide	and err some errant IRC inspired shtuff	01:34
rektide	i'd rather view source than mouse to properties. :/	01:34
KotCzarny	it all depends on toolbar buttons	01:35
KotCzarny	:)	01:35
rektide	anyone know any good high resolution webcams?	01:35
rektide	i'm looking for greater than 640x480@30fps	01:35
rektide	a 640x480@60fps would be badass though	01:36
rektide	or just higher resolution	01:36
KotCzarny	hmm, buy a camera	01:36
KotCzarny	;)	01:36
GeneralAntilles	rektide, buy a DV cam and plug it in. :P	01:36
rektide	waiting for the Samsung NV24 HD, 720P H264 point and shoot camera.	01:36
rektide	thats gonna kick ass	01:36
rektide	but i'd like a couple $70 webcams too, get a small video capture matrix going	01:37
jott	rektide: the philips one do 90fps	01:37
rektide	tell me more!	01:37
rektide	what camera?	01:38
KotCzarny	jott: link ?	01:38
jott	spc900nc	01:38
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rektide	hmmmm ccd based i like	01:38
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rektide	very nice jott tyvm	01:39
jott	its used by many hobby astronomers :)	01:39
KotCzarny	but	01:39
rektide	i wouldnt think that marginal fps boost would necessarily correspond to higher sensitivity	01:39
KotCzarny	does it run on linux?	01:39
rektide	even though the old Philip Toucam's ROCKED THE HOUSE	01:40
rektide	i ordered 6 of them for $300, they shipped from Asia, and one of my roomates girlfriend, when the UPS guy came, said "rektide who?" to the guy.	01:40
rektide	that fucking bitch	01:40
KotCzarny	lol	01:40
jott	should work afaik.. a friend of mine recommended it but i think he uses win .. i don't have it so i can't say for sure how good the support is	01:40
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rektide	never saw the $300 or cameras again	01:41
rektide	this was back in college, like 4 years ago	01:41
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rektide	god damn i wanted to choke a bitch	01:41
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KotCzarny	not worth 300$	01:41
GeneralAntilles	Haha	01:41
KotCzarny	really	01:41
KotCzarny	:)	01:41
GeneralAntilles	Women. . . .	01:41
KotCzarny	but you can play practical jokes on her	01:42
jott	http://rainsoft.de/projects/pwc/webcam_doc/index.html hm :)	01:42
rektide	what a dumb bitch though	01:42
rektide	you dont know who lives in the house yet you deny packages from ups?	01:42
jott	looks like it is supported :)	01:42
KotCzarny	paid already	01:42
KotCzarny	that is	01:42
rektide	overseas packages	01:42
KotCzarny	:)	01:42
rektide	i always thought the toucam was a fluke, that philips accidentally made a really sweet camera	01:44
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rektide	than the spc900nc also kicks ass is rather impressive	01:44
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rektide	FUCK the spc900nc webcam was $25 on woot three weeks ago! v. $70 now.	01:49
rektide	fuck_________	01:49
rektide	i would've built the greatest camera array ever	01:49
GeneralAntilles	Don't you hate woot? :P	01:49
KotCzarny	:>	01:50
rektide	me? why? not as far as i know?	01:50
GeneralAntilles	I always miss the deals	01:50
GeneralAntilles	or pass up on really great stuff that I only notice is great later	01:50
GeneralAntilles	or don't have the cash	01:51
GeneralAntilles	It frustrates me. :(	01:51
rektide	yeah i used to track it in RSS and never saw a damned thing i wanted	01:51
rektide	we need some kind of reverse aggregator, a social/community woot filter	01:51
GeneralAntilles	I did get a 770 once, though.	01:51
GeneralAntilles	$130	01:51
rektide	that only feeds things that dont suck	01:51
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rektide	they had the internets when the 770 was released? ;P	01:52
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GeneralAntilles	It was only 2005. :P	01:52
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rektide	so the n8x0 usb ports are unusable with the stand retracted?	01:55
KotCzarny	n800 has them on the side	01:55
KotCzarny	but the stand covers them..	01:56
rektide	same for the n810, no?	01:56
KotCzarny	i have only n800	01:56
KotCzarny	:)	01:56
GeneralAntilles	Right	01:56
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I've never found it to be an issue.	01:56
rektide	i'm a USB madman	01:56
rektide	i bought 10 openwrt wireless routers cause they had usb 2.0	01:56
KotCzarny	you can unscrew stand	01:57
KotCzarny	:)	01:57
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rektide	i figured it was removable but it'd also often be convenient to have	01:57
KotCzarny	:)	01:57
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rektide	anyone seen a GP2X irl?	01:58
rektide	(its a pretty nifty touchscreen dual-core ARM unit aimed at gamers)	01:59
GeneralAntilles	Navi has.	01:59
rektide	i will idle here and stalk him	01:59
rektide	ty	01:59
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Navi	God damn.	01:59
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GeneralAntilles	You got highlight.	02:00
GeneralAntilles	Take that!	02:00
GeneralAntilles	rektide, you familiar with the Pandora.	02:00
GeneralAntilles	Also, GP2X wasn't dual-core	02:00
GeneralAntilles	It was dual-CPU	02:00
rektide	lol	02:01
rektide	hi navi	02:01
rektide	GA, what do you see as the distinction between dual core and dual cpu?	02:01
rektide	how bad was the AA battery comparment on the GP2X? otherwise its a good bit smaller than the N8x0, right?	02:01
GeneralAntilles	Dual-core implies they're both on the same piece of silicon.	02:01
GeneralAntilles	s/implies/means/	02:02
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Dual-core means they're both on the same piece of silicon.	02:02
GeneralAntilles	Like the Core 2 Duo	02:02
rektide	they are on the same die.	02:02
rektide	err	02:02
rektide	they're in the same package, i dunno if they're on the same die.	02:02
GeneralAntilles	They aren't. :P	02:02
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rektide	wasnt Core Duo two separate CPU's in the same package?	02:03
GeneralAntilles	No	02:03
KotCzarny	nope	02:03
Navi	No	02:03
GeneralAntilles	It's dual-core	02:03
rektide	i must just be thinking of the quad cores, which are two dual cores in a package.	02:03
rektide	(the new ones aside)	02:03
Navi	The Pentium Ds were two dies in one, as are the quad cores	02:03
GeneralAntilles	quad-cores are just like dual-cores	02:03
rektide	yeah i was pretty sure there was an old dual core with two dies	02:04
GeneralAntilles	dual dual-cores are what you mean.	02:04
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rektide	dual dual-cores == two dual cores	02:05
rektide	same deal	02:05
rektide	Navi, can you profer any kind of comparison between the GP2X and the N8x0?	02:05
glass	some nokia phones have dual cpu but the other is just for network stack and shit	02:07
Navi	One's a gaming machine and one's an internet tablet	02:07
rektide	what of form factor?	02:08
KotCzarny	omap is dual core too	02:08
KotCzarny	:>	02:08
rektide	i think i forgot that Kot	02:08
KotCzarny	but cores are little different	02:08
KotCzarny	dsp one is specialized	02:08
rektide	they're asymetric on the GP2X as well	02:08
rektide	and the Nintendo DS	02:08
rektide	i cant think of any ARM with symetric dual core	02:08
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KotCzarny	http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4322	02:29
KotCzarny	eheheh	02:29
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rektide	what is that on?	02:30
rektide	s/on/about/	02:30
infobot	rektide meant: what is that about?	02:30
KotCzarny	'Cops Bust a (Root) Beer Kegger Party (+video) '	02:31
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pupnik	we've got a dsp on the tablets but it's too much work for normal mortals to use it	02:48
GeneralAntilles	Be nice if TI would open it up.	02:48
KotCzarny	it's open	02:49
KotCzarny	docs are available	02:49
KotCzarny	even compiler	02:49
pupnik	lardman explained that something was missing but i forgot what	02:49
KotCzarny	hum	02:49
KotCzarny	http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/29/046201	02:50
KotCzarny	fun	02:50
KotCzarny	i love learning new thngs from /. comments	02:50
KotCzarny	:)	02:50
* lcuk posted in there		02:50
KotCzarny	http://bash.org/?24262	03:00
KotCzarny	lol	03:00
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blahdeblah-lap	Are openssh dependencies broken for anyone else around here? I tried to update to 1:4.7p1-2.maemo2 just now, and it tells me that openssh-common 1:4.6p1-5.maemo3 is a missing dependency.	03:06
KotCzarny	install by hand?	03:07
GeneralAntilles	Uninstall and try again.	03:07
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blahdeblah-lap	Will that lose my passwords?	03:07
KotCzarny	nope	03:08
GeneralAntilles	No	03:08
blahdeblah-lap	OK - will try it.	03:08
blahdeblah-lap	Weird - apt-get install openssh-client works just fine.	03:09
blahdeblah-lap	What's the deal there?	03:09
blahdeblah-lap	(Didn't even need to uninstall.)	03:09
KotCzarny	app-manager is buggy	03:09
KotCzarny	:)	03:09
blahdeblah-lap	Wonderful. Should i submit or vote for a bug?	03:09
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KotCzarny	if the bug is repeatable	03:10
KotCzarny	otherwise it may be anything from solar spots	03:10
KotCzarny	to user incompetence	03:10
KotCzarny	:)	03:10
blahdeblah-lap	KotCzarny: Are you saying i'm no good at pressing the update button?	03:10
KotCzarny	nope	03:10
blahdeblah-lap	I didn't think it took any skills... ;-)	03:10
KotCzarny	but to know why that is happening	03:11
KotCzarny	devs must know how to reproduce it	03:11
GeneralAntilles	There's nothing to submit against.	03:11
KotCzarny	and you may have new/old packages	03:11
KotCzarny	or weird combination of them	03:11
GeneralAntilles	Unless you count the openssh garage page, though, I suppose.	03:11
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blahdeblah-lap	Given that NOKIA STILL CAN'T FIX THE MAEMO EXTRAS REPOSITORY FOR ALL GEOGRAPHIC LOCATIONS, it's not unlikely that my repos were out of date.	03:12
KotCzarny	:)	03:12
blahdeblah-lap	(Sorry about that - just letting off some steam)	03:12
KotCzarny	no problem	03:12
lcuk	change takes time	03:12
KotCzarny	we are here for you	03:12
KotCzarny	:)	03:12
Navi	What's everyone's favorite media player for the N800 in terms of design (not including Canola and Mediabox)	03:12
blahdeblah-lap	KotCzarny: Gee - thanks	03:12
blahdeblah-lap	Navi: They're all bad.	03:12
Navi	Then what do you like?	03:13
KotCzarny	xmms and playfilelist	03:13
blahdeblah-lap	Navi: amarok :-)	03:13
Navi	:/	03:13
Navi	mmk	03:14
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blahdeblah-lap	Navi: Kagu is my current choice on maemo because it supports last.fm scrobbling, but the interface is terrible and it has some annoying bugs (like restarting playback when you add songs to the now playing list, and maximising the volume for a split second when you unpause it).	03:15
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Navi	Heh	03:15
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blahdeblah-lap	Navi: It's not funny when you're trying to go to sleep. ;-)	03:19
KotCzarny	:)	03:19
KotCzarny	use xmms	03:19
Navi	blahdeblah-lap, sure it is :)	03:20
blahdeblah-lap	KotCzarny: on maemo?	03:20
KotCzarny	yup	03:20
blahdeblah-lap	Does it scrobble?	03:20
KotCzarny	scrobble?	03:20
blahdeblah-lap	last.fm	03:20
blahdeblah-lap	If you're not an addict, you won't understand.	03:20
KotCzarny	probably	03:21
KotCzarny	:)	03:21
Jiten	what? you can'y scrobble if you aren't addicted to it somehow?	03:21
KotCzarny	ie. 'probably i'm not an addict'	03:21
KotCzarny	but there is xmms-ctrl	03:22
KotCzarny	so writing a script to do it shouldn't be too hard	03:22
KotCzarny	:)	03:22
lcdd	i had to ditch xmms because audioscrobble plugin tends to crash it	03:22
blahdeblah-lap	Jiten: No, but scrobbling is mandatory for a music play for me now	03:22
blahdeblah-lap	lcdd: Disappointing to hear.	03:22
KotCzarny	blah: how exactly it works?	03:23
KotCzarny	simple 'get track name, save it somewhere' ?	03:23
lcdd	audacious works almost as a drop-in replacement, though. and as a extra it supports evdev events from my tv remote	03:23
blahdeblah-lap	KotCzarny: You submit your tracks to their web site, then you can view stats, similar artists, join groups, etc.	03:23
KotCzarny	with or without user interaction?	03:23
KotCzarny	hum	03:23
blahdeblah-lap	you submit tracks without user interaction	03:23
blahdeblah-lap	Your music player does it for you	03:23
KotCzarny	i think it's doable in a python	03:24
KotCzarny	or even in bash	03:24
KotCzarny	:)	03:24
KotCzarny	using xmms-control	03:24
KotCzarny	:)	03:24
lcdd	yeah, shouldn't be too hard	03:24
KotCzarny	in fact writing standalone scrobbler would be even better	03:24
KotCzarny	that will interact with any player	03:24
KotCzarny	http://code.google.com/p/pyscrobble/	03:26
KotCzarny	hehe	03:26
blahdeblah-lap	KotCzarny: maemo scrobbler does that - the player just has to submit a couple of dbus messages	03:26
KotCzarny	blah: nice	03:26
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blahdeblah-lap	KotCzarny: Where is xmms for maemo? I can't find it in app manager or searching maemo.org	03:32
KotCzarny	hmm	03:32
KotCzarny	i have compiled one myslef	03:32
KotCzarny	myself	03:32
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blahdeblah-lap	ugh	03:32
KotCzarny	if you don't mind software from strangers i can give you the link	03:32
KotCzarny	:)	03:32
blahdeblah-lap	Maybe another day - gotta go.	03:33
KotCzarny	np	03:33
KotCzarny	:)	03:33
KotCzarny	hi pupnik	03:33
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nwidger_	what's the easiest way to play a wav/mp3 file in a maemo app? like what libraries or whatever to use?	03:38
KotCzarny	gstreamer ?	03:38
nwidger_	KotCzarny: cool... i just want a hardcoded sound file to play when i press a gtkbutton	03:39
KotCzarny	hmm	03:39
nwidger_	so the simplest solution would probably be the best	03:39
KotCzarny	esdplay ?	03:40
KotCzarny	mplayer ?	03:40
KotCzarny	:)	03:40
nwidger_	hmm	03:40
KotCzarny	maybe there's framework for sound too	03:40
KotCzarny	in hildon	03:40
nwidger_	maybe	03:40
nwidger_	the tutorials dont mentions it anywhere	03:40
KotCzarny	but i think gstreamer will be easy	03:40
nwidger_	cool	03:40
nwidger_	ill give it a shot	03:40
KotCzarny	you don't want to control the play?	03:41
KotCzarny	just 'fire and forget' ?	03:41
nwidger_	yeah	03:41
nwidger_	well here's my app:	03:41
KotCzarny	ok, gstreamer then	03:41
nwidger_	i drum on the table a lot	03:41
nwidger_	using my fingers	03:41
nwidger_	so i want to do the same on the tablet	03:41
KotCzarny	btw. check out pyano	03:41
nwidger_	but each finger would make a different sound play each time i hit it	03:41
KotCzarny	it's a simple piano emulator	03:42
nwidger_	like snare, bass, cymbol, etc	03:42
KotCzarny	to play with thumbs	03:42
KotCzarny	and using samples	03:42
nwidger_	yeah basically	03:42
nwidger_	but like a drumset	03:42
KotCzarny	just a different sample set	03:42
KotCzarny	:)	03:42
nwidger_	yes :)	03:42
lcuk	and variable circular drum layout and sizing :)	03:42
KotCzarny	you may try some midi interaction too	03:42
KotCzarny	with timidity	03:42
lcuk	pressure sensitive	03:43
lcuk	harder press = louder	03:43
KotCzarny	cool	03:43
KotCzarny	:)	03:43
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nwidger_	lcuk: is the n810's screen pressure sensitive?	03:43
KotCzarny	n800 too	03:43
* lcuk wonders what the bres circle algoyithm looks like		03:43
lcuk	yes	03:43
nwidger_	cool, didnt know that	03:43
KotCzarny	new day, new knowledge	03:43
KotCzarny	:)	03:43
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nwidger_	yeah so ive never programmed on maemo	03:44
KotCzarny	do you know python?	03:44
WorkingOnWise	if I install KDE on my tablet, is there some way to switch between KDE and the default DE on an N800?	03:44
nwidger_	KotCzarny: no but i can learn it	03:44
nwidger_	i've been using c and gtk	03:44
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lcuk	get hold of a program called maemopad+ and there is a pressure option	03:44
KotCzarny	nwidger: it's very simple to write pygtk apps	03:44
KotCzarny	if you know gtk already	03:44
KotCzarny	:)	03:44
nwidger_	lcuk: sure, ill check it out	03:44
lcuk	there are lots of examples around and you can perform easy actions on single button press	03:45
lcuk	and because you dont have to compile it, you can edit directly on 810 and play and make better	03:45
nwidger_	i thought it would be cool if there was a configuration option to position different buttons on the screen each with its own sample, so that it would work best with your left/right-handedness and finger size	03:45
KotCzarny	gtk supports dragging buttons too	03:45
KotCzarny	;)	03:45
lcuk	there is another program called PyGTKEditor which lets you edit and test python applications on maemo :)	03:45
nwidger_	neat	03:46
Zetx\|	What are the chances it's not a hardware issue if I've reflashed twice and my touchscreen still has the same problem? :\|	03:46
lcuk	im drumming on my keyboard now and know exactly what you mean	03:46
lcuk	whats the problem Zetx\|	03:46
KotCzarny	zetx: have you seen n800 power on drama thread?	03:46
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Zetx\|	oh, it's not that	03:46
Navi	Zetx\|, someone else complains about that problem in a different channel	03:47
KotCzarny	btw. what is the problem?	03:47
Zetx\|	it's my touchscreen, sometimes when i tap around the middle of my screen it thinks i'm tapping at the left side (it hits the application menu)	03:47
KotCzarny	ah, yes	03:47
KotCzarny	known problem	03:47
nwidger_	lcuk: the only down side is that the screen can't register multiple touches at the same time i'm guessing, so no bass+cymbal crashes :(	03:47
Zetx\|	and i've tried calibrating	03:47
Zetx\|	ah	03:47
Zetx\|	:\	03:47
KotCzarny	my guess it's just bad software	03:47
Zetx\|	it's just a difficult thing to search on 'touchscreen' is gonna get alot of hits ;p	03:47
KotCzarny	that doesn't filter out those bad data	03:47
lcuk	nwidger_, i dont think its as bad as you think	03:47
Zetx\|	i guess i'll try a different firmware then	03:48
nwidger_	lcuk: the screen has multitouch capabilities?	03:48
KotCzarny	zetx, no	03:48
KotCzarny	it's not solved	03:48
lcuk	no	03:48
KotCzarny	even with latest	03:48
Zetx\|	oh	03:48
Zetx\|	yeah	03:48
Zetx\|	so -everybody- has that issue? :\|	03:49
KotCzarny	but you can resolve it a littly by dragging menu to the right part of the screen	03:49
KotCzarny	;)	03:49
lcuk	Zetx\|, return to nokia, that sounds like a busted screen - ive seen it happen to many nintendo DSs cos they get lots of abuse, with nokias similar fault is plausable though they are generally better treated	03:49
KotCzarny	*little	03:49
KotCzarny	lcuk: but it's intermittent	03:50
KotCzarny	most of the time taps are correct	03:50
lcuk	if your screen is touching where you arent thats because either something is trapped under the left hand side of screen	03:50
Zetx\|	KotCzarny, do you have a link to the issue? like a filed bug or something?	03:50
KotCzarny	only sometimes they go with x=0	03:50
KotCzarny	zetx: nope	03:50
lcuk	i had a whole discussion about this with a guy fairly recently i got test screenshots and everything	03:50
lcuk	lemme find link	03:50
nwidger_	lcuk: can you explain what you meant by 'i dont think its as bad as you think'?	03:51
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WorkingOnWise	if I install KDE on my tablet, is there some way to switch between KDE and the default DE on an N800?	03:51
lcuk	the screen is usable as a touch screen isnt it?	03:51
KotCzarny	yes	03:51
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lcdd	KotCzarny: which menu is draggable?	03:51
KotCzarny	lcdd: navbar	03:51
nwidger_	lcuk: yes of course	03:52
lcuk	it was johnx!	03:52
lcuk	http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/Pentest2.png	03:52
KotCzarny	lcdd: http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/mydesktop2.png	03:52
lcuk	when he tapped somewhere it went somewhere else, but at some parts of his screen it was ok. it worked perfectly until he said it heats up	03:52
lcuk	once it does it occurs more	03:52
nwidger_	lcuk: but if i touch the screen in two places at the same time, it will only register one of them, correct?	03:52
Zetx\|	to me, it feels like if i angle the stylus some more, it does it more often, but that might just be me	03:52
lcuk	yes nw	03:53
GeneralAntilles	nwidger_, it registers an average of the two.	03:53
lcuk	check for bits caught under the lip	03:53
nwidger_	GeneralAntilles: like, the average of the two coordinates?	03:53
lcuk	yes	03:53
nwidger_	hmmm	03:53
lcuk	ive thought about interpolating and trying to keep track of multiple	03:54
lcuk	but it never got more than that	03:54
nwidger_	hmmmm	03:54
lcdd	KotCzarny: that is awesome. i'm left-handed and the menu has been bugging me. where do i poke to drag it?	03:54
KotCzarny	lcdd: you need randr enabled kernel & xomap	03:54
KotCzarny	it gets enabled after first rotation	03:54
KotCzarny	it can even be draggod to the top or bottom	03:55
lcuk	damn, thats a killer feature	03:55
KotCzarny	then you just drag it	03:55
lcdd	KotCzarny: okay. will look into it	03:55
KotCzarny	as a taskbar in windows	03:55
KotCzarny	:)	03:55
lcuk	why didnt you shout that as a reason to put r&r on ;)	03:55
KotCzarny	lol	03:55
KotCzarny	because i didn't know about	03:55
KotCzarny	it	03:55
lcuk	sse2.net isnt it	03:55
KotCzarny	then someone told me that's draggable	03:55
KotCzarny	yes	03:55
lcuk	whats folder?	03:56
lcuk	can you remember	03:56
KotCzarny	rotate	03:56
KotCzarny	it's most usefull in portrait mode	03:56
KotCzarny	to get more width for app	03:56
KotCzarny	and it can even be dragged out of the screen ;)	03:57
lcuk	gonna try and put it on now. it might even help simplicity for my prog :)	03:57
lcuk	actually, no im not	03:58
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KotCzarny	it would be good to find out how to cause it programatically	03:58
* lcuk just saw the time		03:58
KotCzarny	what time?	03:58
KotCzarny	barely 21 ;)	03:58
lcuk	2am	03:58
lcuk	work in 6	03:58
KotCzarny	:)	03:58
KotCzarny	good night then	03:59
lcuk	bug me tomorrow ;) i really want it on	03:59
KotCzarny	hehe	03:59
KotCzarny	np	03:59
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KotCzarny	get your nokia to the work ;)	03:59
lcuk	nahhh i dont like moving it until i am happy showing it off	03:59
nwidger_	why is it that every library ever takes like 250 lines just to do the simplest thing	03:59
KotCzarny	:)	04:00
lcuk	because they arent you're library. write everything once and you have your own library :)	04:00
lcuk	write it the way YOU want it.	04:00
KotCzarny	or just hide initialization in your sublib	04:00
KotCzarny	:)	04:00
nwidger_	i just want to say play(sound.wav) but it's never going to be that easy	04:00
* lcuk does a mix of both		04:00
nwidger_	yeah the second is probably what's going to happen	04:01
KotCzarny	nwidger: ever heard about system() ?	04:01
KotCzarny	;)	04:01
lcuk	im taking entire folders with half the core code and shotting off in another direction	04:01
lcuk	nwidger_, look at source of pypiano :) its all there	04:01
nwidger_	KotCzarny: haha	04:01
nwidger_	im not that dirty	04:01
KotCzarny	:>	04:01
nwidger_	lcuk: link?	04:02
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KotCzarny	but it's the simplest way to do what you want	04:02
KotCzarny	lccuk: it's pyano ;)	04:02
lcuk	http://geekpenguin.blogspot.com/2008/01/pyano.html	04:02
lcuk	good point	04:02
KotCzarny	very clever name	04:02
nwidger_	lcuk: excellent	04:02
lcuk	and since its python you can edit it and play and put your own samples there (I assume)	04:03
KotCzarny	huh, nwidger: i told you to look at the pyano :)	04:03
nwidger_	.debs dont usually contain the source do they?	04:03
KotCzarny	nope	04:03
nwidger_	KotCzarny: oh, sorry. thank you :)	04:03
KotCzarny	np :)	04:03
lcuk	nwidger_, in this case, they do - it is written in python. this is a parsed language and is not compiled	04:04
nwidger_	oh shit yeah	04:04
nwidger_	im an idiot	04:04
lcuk	not at all :) you are a person on a journey :)	04:04
nwidger_	it's all about the journey	04:04
KotCzarny	hmm	04:05
KotCzarny	firefox 2.0.0.13 ?	04:05
lcuk	im on 11	04:05
KotCzarny	i'm on .12	04:05
lcuk	lol - i disabled updates after they got in my way	04:06
KotCzarny	and it's out for 3 weeks already	04:06
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KotCzarny	i have mine packaged into cramfs ;)	04:06
nwidger_	i thought .deb files where gzip'd	04:06
KotCzarny	nwidger: inside	04:06
KotCzarny	.deb is an ar archive	04:06
KotCzarny	containing actual .tar.gz	04:06
KotCzarny	and some control info	04:06
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nwidger_	ah okay	04:07
lcuk	(and a bit of magic)	04:07
nwidger_	im just trying to crack is open instead of install it	04:07
KotCzarny	ar x some.deb	04:07
KotCzarny	:)	04:07
nwidger_	yup	04:07
nwidger_	man pages are useful :)	04:07
lcuk	nothing better on the nokia than to try it yourself, see if you think its worth continuing with your drum idea	04:07
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nwidger_	ya	04:08
nwidger_	well it shouldnt be that hard	04:08
KotCzarny	but maybe i should go strainght to 3.x	04:08
nwidger_	i knew the trickiest part would be playing sound	04:08
KotCzarny	hum	04:08
KotCzarny	nwidger: you can use mplayer in -slave mode too	04:08
KotCzarny	;)	04:08
KotCzarny	then just popen and send commands	04:08
nwidger_	hmmm	04:09
nwidger_	ill keep that in mind	04:09
KotCzarny	but the best way would be to compile timidity	04:09
KotCzarny	and start it in server mode	04:09
KotCzarny	then it's just midi	04:09
nwidger_	cool	04:09
KotCzarny	you know about midi i presume	04:09
KotCzarny	:)	04:09
nwidger_	yes	04:11
nwidger_	i grew up listening to videogame music in the 90s on the internet :P	04:11
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KotCzarny	:>	04:11
KotCzarny	.mods ftw!	04:11
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nwidger_	mmm	04:12
lcuk	i grew up listening to real videogame music in the 80's on a spectrum and amiga and c64	04:12
nwidger_	those are good too	04:12
nwidger_	lcuk: old man :P	04:12
lcuk	:D	04:12
nwidger_	i wish i grew up with amiga and c64	04:12
* KotCzarny went atari/amiga way		04:12
nwidger_	oldest thing i had was a coleco adam with donkey kong	04:13
KotCzarny	and a little bit of timex	04:13
KotCzarny	:>	04:13
lcuk	amiga ruled :) this nokia reminds me so much of it - with its custom chipset - the cpu, the dsp and the pvr (when online..) it will rock	04:13
KotCzarny	lcuk: btw. have you considered how pvr will effect battery life?	04:13
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KotCzarny	arm can power down parts of the chip	04:14
nwidger_	pvr?	04:14
KotCzarny	powervr	04:14
KotCzarny	3d chip	04:14
lcuk	i dont care about battery - if i have to keep it plugged in i will	04:14
KotCzarny	:)	04:14
KotCzarny	yeah	04:14
lcuk	i doubt it will be any worse than running the dsp at same time	04:14
KotCzarny	dsp will run too	04:14
nwidger_	does the n810 have a pvr chip?	04:15
lcuk	i could quite happily live in silece on the desktop so that its crisp	04:15
lcuk	yes and we can't use it at the moment because we have no driver	04:15
nwidger_	:(	04:15
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lcuk	its a long and drawn out thing and it pisses me off no end and i so wanna use it cos the amount of dreamy effects we could do would be amazing	04:15
* lcuk stomps to his room		04:16
nwidger_	lcuk: try not to wet yourself	04:16
lcuk	:) i dont it just riles me occasionally	04:16
KotCzarny	:)	04:17
myren	i cant tell whether nokia is just too cheap to license pvr, too lazy to build a driver, too concerned about how to do open source for the driver	04:17
monkeyiq	anyone else here use WPA2 with their n810?	04:18
* KotCzarny uses WEP		04:18
GeneralAntilles	I'm sure the result of the cost benefit analysis was bad.	04:18
lcuk	or whether there is a technical reason why its use has not been sanctioned?	04:18
GeneralAntilles	It wont be able to do fast graphics at full resolution.	04:18
lcuk	i wonder if its the fear of ngage software piracy?	04:18
GeneralAntilles	There could also be complicated technical issues.	04:19
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, no way.	04:19
KotCzarny	lcuk: there was one thread that nokia said 'the chip won't benefit us'	04:19
lcuk	why not, its compatible hardware	04:19
KotCzarny	because of lack of vram	04:19
myren	ahhhh right forgot that	04:19
monkeyiq	KotCzarny; hmm, can you get >0.5Mb/sec download over WEP?	04:19
lcuk	no, dont forget that - its VERY easy to give the lcd any resolution it wants	04:19
KotCzarny	monkeyiq: mbit or MB ?	04:20
lcuk	we can supply the lcd correctly at (for instance) 400*240 and it will display it at fullscreen	04:20
KotCzarny	let me test	04:20
monkeyiq	megabyte	04:20
lcuk	the same occurs on any resolution	04:20
monkeyiq	I get about that even downloading from a local http:// with wget	04:20
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, sure, but that's suboptimal.	04:20
monkeyiq	I suspect that WPA2 just kills the CPU, as its at 100% getting 500kbyte/s	04:20
GeneralAntilles	I get 800KB/sec over WPA2 and scp/sftp	04:21
lcuk	suboptimal my arse - if we can get fancy graphics at any resolution JUST FOR THE FUN OF IT then we shouldnt try?	04:21
GeneralAntilles	<_<	04:21
GeneralAntilles	I'm merely arguing Nokia's point of view.	04:21
monkeyiq	GeneralAntilles; Ah ok, so maybe I should look at my AP etc. scp/wget both give me about 500kb/s	04:21
KotCzarny	monkeyiq: i get 315kb/s	04:22
KotCzarny	using 11mbit	04:22
lcuk	if nokia wanted optimal we would see movies at full res	04:22
monkeyiq	I get about 1mb/sec scp from localhost to localhost on the n810	04:22
lcuk	but they are shown at reduced res and people genenrally dont complain	04:22
lcuk	same with games	04:22
GeneralAntilles	Movies are a bit different from games.	04:22
monkeyiq	KotCzarny; ah ok. so my 500kb/sec is not sounding quite so bad.	04:22
KotCzarny	probably	04:22
KotCzarny	:)	04:22
nwidger_	pyano is good, but it's not fast enough	04:23
monkeyiq	but still, viewing 4-5mb digital pix over NFS is very annoying. If I could get closer to 2mb/sec then it would be quite a nice image tablet	04:23
KotCzarny	monkeyiq: vnc?	04:23
nwidger_	if you alternate keys too fast, it doesnt play all the hits	04:23
KotCzarny	;)	04:23
monkeyiq	or I could prescale the images at the server end, but I'd like to reserve that option for later	04:23
monkeyiq	KotCzarny; heh, interesting idea, not quite as crazy as it sounds at first.	04:24
monkeyiq	use the server to do the load/scale and only send the screen down the pipe	04:24
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lcuk	auto compression, resolution reduction	04:24
KotCzarny	:)	04:24
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KotCzarny	lcuk: go to sleep	04:24
KotCzarny	:)	04:24
lcuk	lol	04:24
lcuk	im just thinkin	04:24
monkeyiq	I might also try using no WEP/WPA2 and using tinc/openvnc or ssh tunneling to see if I can get better speed	04:25
KotCzarny	hmm	04:25
KotCzarny	otoh i should try this test from another comp	04:25
monkeyiq	since the n810 can to 1mb/s on loopback and it has to enc/dec I might get closer to 2mb/s over ssh on no WEP/WPA	04:25
KotCzarny	it was wifi--router--wifi	04:25
lcuk	what res images are you testing with monkeyiq	04:25
monkeyiq	lcdd; 10mpx	04:25
monkeyiq	err, lcuk that is	04:25
lcuk	will always end up with MUCH more data then - vnc showing fullscreen will be much less	04:26
KotCzarny	especially with jpeg encoding	04:26
KotCzarny	:>	04:26
monkeyiq	I was just hoping that with 2mb/s it would take about 2 sec to xfer and it would be usable with prefetching.	04:26
monkeyiq	given that canola can handle these images resonalby well from sdcards	04:26
lcuk	what are you using to copy?	04:26
monkeyiq	NFS	04:27
monkeyiq	but for bandwidth tests, scp	04:27
monkeyiq	or wget	04:27
monkeyiq	both give 500kb/s which is fishy given that scp has to do more CPU stuff (the whole WPA2 and ssh crypto combination)	04:28
lcuk	you could try and see if they are progressive	04:28
monkeyiq	so I think WPA2 is limiting bandwidth for all to < 500k/s	04:28
KotCzarny	i confirm	04:28
lcuk	at least you would get the preview quicker	04:28
KotCzarny	sucking off eth--wlan it's 450-500	04:28
KotCzarny	(http)	04:28
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monkeyiq	I haven't tested what I can get without WEP/WPA2 to see what the wifi is absolutely limited to	04:28
KotCzarny	and cpu usage is ~50% on tablet	04:28
lcuk	ie, dont read after copying - try to load images direct - if they are progressive and your preview can show them - you will get images quicker on screen	04:29
KotCzarny	so it's not an bottleneck	04:29
monkeyiq	lcuk; yeah, though for that I don't mind having a daemon to thumb things for me.	04:29
KotCzarny	php based server	04:29
KotCzarny	:)	04:29
lcuk	fair enough	04:29
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monkeyiq	so I have a 70% qual 800x480 thumb to load	04:29
monkeyiq	or something	04:29
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monkeyiq	KotCzarny; interesting, CPU is at 100% for me on the n810 during copy	04:30
lcuk	yer, should be tiny files	04:30
KotCzarny	i use wep	04:30
monkeyiq	ah ok :)	04:30
KotCzarny	and cpuinfo shows that cpu is in 160mhz mode	04:30
KotCzarny	;)	04:30
lcuk	im off 2 sleep anyway :)	04:31
KotCzarny	78 root 11 -5 0 0 0 D 37.5 0.0 3:35.01 OMAP McSPI/0	04:31
monkeyiq	it seems that many apps expect either stuff is on sdcard or explicitly on the internet. I tried running kagu with an NFS mount in its indexing path... bad idea! It actually downloads each song from NFS fully to read ID3 tags	04:31
KotCzarny	that's the most cpu intensive process	04:31
KotCzarny	464 root 10 -5 0 0 0 D 8.2 0.0 1:21.14 cx3110x	04:31
KotCzarny	wifi driver is ~10%	04:31
* monkeyiq crashes qemu in scratchbox again		04:32
KotCzarny	monkeyiq: how about xmms?	04:32
KotCzarny	;)	04:32
monkeyiq	seems that sb doesn't much like fedora8 :(	04:32
glass	vmware..	04:32
monkeyiq	KotCzarny; I have that installed too, when you accidently minimize xmms things get interesting :)	04:32
KotCzarny	monkeyiq: get my kciconsbox	04:32
KotCzarny	;)	04:32
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KotCzarny	for the situations like this :)	04:33
monkeyiq	hehe, a single google hit!	04:33
KotCzarny	yup	04:33
KotCzarny	it's on the net since yesterday	04:33
KotCzarny	:)	04:34
KotCzarny	and i have to rewrite it properly in c ;)	04:34
monkeyiq	I've been brewing a few debs for the n810 myself... parted is quite handy :)	04:34
monkeyiq	BTW is there a kernel for the n810 that has kernel modules packaged too, like luks, fuse, xfs etc?	04:34
monkeyiq	unfortunately the kernel compile also crashes qemu on fedora8 scratchbox :/	04:35
KotCzarny	you can get kernel source and make modules yourself	04:35
monkeyiq	So i might end up trying scbox on ubuntu in a vm	04:35
monkeyiq	I was just hoping that some main repo existed to avoid having everyone recompile the kernel.	04:35
KotCzarny	for luks and fuse there are packages i guess	04:35
KotCzarny	user compiled	04:36
KotCzarny	:)	04:36
monkeyiq	ah ok. I saw a luks tar.gz of modules and kernel but the only fuse stuff I found was for the 770	04:36
KotCzarny	i can give you fuse-sshfs package	04:36
* monkeyiq is a filesystems kind of guy, just in case you didn't pick up on it :)		04:36
KotCzarny	if you want	04:36
KotCzarny	:)	04:36
KotCzarny	also i can compile xfs	04:36
monkeyiq	repo url?	04:36
KotCzarny	erm	04:36
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KotCzarny	http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/	04:37
KotCzarny	;)	04:37
KotCzarny	more like tar.gz	04:37
KotCzarny	than .deb	04:37
monkeyiq	cool. I'll take a look. I might also get the fuse automounter filesystem happening.	04:37
monkeyiq	though a tray icon with mount/umount options would also be quite handy.	04:38
KotCzarny	:)	04:38
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monkeyiq	and the ability to automount stuff if a VPN/network came up	04:38
KotCzarny	it's all scriptable	04:38
monkeyiq	I suspect that will be one of my first apps for maemo :)	04:38
KotCzarny	:)	04:38
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KotCzarny	one note about xmms, mad plugin is a must	04:42
KotCzarny	builtin mp3 decoder will suck 100% cpu	04:42
KotCzarny	mad gets away with 15%	04:42
KotCzarny	:)	04:42
monkeyiq	ah ok. nice tip. I mostly have ogg/flac, but do have the odd mp3 (haven't actually played an mp3 on the 810 yet)	04:43
monkeyiq	though also I need to work out how to integrate Luks into maemo. with nice login/password dialogs and such	04:45
KotCzarny	python?	04:45
KotCzarny	:)	04:45
KotCzarny	pygtk to be exact	04:45
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monkeyiq	having tainted a 810 bootup once, I'm not too happy about testing such dialogs in the boot process on a device	04:45
KotCzarny	fun	04:46
KotCzarny	:)	04:46
monkeyiq	well, the dialog itself I might just make using the gtk2 C api. its more the hookup logistics and getting luks to do the right thing, like flushing a fs key on device lock etc.	04:46
KotCzarny	i hated when my slackware rc.S tried to mount -a my sshfs shares	04:46
monkeyiq	I'll get bacula onto the 810 soon so I don't live in a digital wasteland on it anymore :)	04:46
KotCzarny	adding nosshfs helped ;)	04:47
monkeyiq	yeah, that would kind of suck :)	04:47
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monkeyiq	KotCzarny; what linux distro is your sbox installed on? so I can install that in a vm for my custom kernel compiles. (and get xalanc and xqilla to compile without crashing qemu)	04:51
KotCzarny	slackware	04:51
KotCzarny	debian would work too	04:52
monkeyiq	ok thanks :) I was hoping to find a post somewhere about what fedora does to angry up sbox so much, but the only ones I found don't help with the kernel	04:52
KotCzarny	redhat has a bad fame	04:52
KotCzarny	about custom untested patches ;)	04:52
monkeyiq	I might try a vanilla linux kernel on the fedora vmachine that runs sbox to see if that helps	04:52
monkeyiq	I suspect its either the fed kernel or its glibc, hopefully its not the later :/	04:53
KotCzarny	it's not that bad i think	04:54
monkeyiq	yeah, I might move away to debian at some stage, but I don't switch lightly.	04:54
KotCzarny	install debian on vmware?	04:54
KotCzarny	:>	04:54
monkeyiq	yeah, that is the other option. I already have an ubuntu vm, so just clone that and install sbox on the clone	04:54
monkeyiq	I might end up just using sbox on the ubuntu vm if fedora is going to give me these issues, as that vmachine is just for sbox anyway	04:55
KotCzarny	there's a vmware image anyway	04:55
KotCzarny	ready to consume	04:55
KotCzarny	have you tried it?	04:56
monkeyiq	nup. But installing sbox on a clone isn't hard and will be less bandwidth than downloading a whole vm	04:56
KotCzarny	:)	04:56
monkeyiq	but I'll keep that as a final, last resort :)	04:56
KotCzarny	it's still few hundred mbs	04:56
KotCzarny	for the sb/sdk/update	04:57
monkeyiq	and then brew off a tarball with shitloads of kernel modules. :)	04:57
KotCzarny	not that much	04:57
KotCzarny	really	04:57
KotCzarny	:)	04:57
KotCzarny	most of the kernel branches are cut off	04:57
KotCzarny	s/much/many/	04:58
monkeyiq	though I did notice a few nice treats when I poked around in menuconfig for the kernel.	04:58
KotCzarny	:)	04:58
KotCzarny	don't forget about randr patch	04:59
monkeyiq	also getting many of the funkier network modules will make for interesting games to play	04:59
KotCzarny	sse2.net/rotate/	04:59
KotCzarny	:)	04:59
monkeyiq	cool.	05:00
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rm_you	*&@#	05:08
KotCzarny	?	05:08
rm_you	lol	05:08
rm_you	sorry, annoyed because i've been so busy recently i haven't had time to even look at IRC in almost a week	05:09
KotCzarny	life	05:09
rm_you	but i'm back :P	05:09
KotCzarny	have you seen my kciconsbox already?	05:09
KotCzarny	:P	05:09
rm_you	no?	05:09
KotCzarny	:)	05:09
rm_you	i haven't touched my n800 in over a week either <_<	05:10
GeneralAntilles	Does it still hate you? :P	05:10
rm_you	soooo busy... and got a laptop... and my n800 is choking itself to death	05:10
KotCzarny	ah	05:10
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: not QUITE as much, but yes it is.	05:10
rm_you	one day it wont stay on for more than like 2 minutes at a time, other days it only shuts off two or three times in the whole day	05:10
KotCzarny	'only'	05:11
rm_you	<_<	05:11
KotCzarny	:)	05:11
GeneralAntilles	Sounds like bad hardware.	05:11
rm_you	yes. only. compared to about 500 times in a day	05:11
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: i think it's watchdog tho...	05:11
KotCzarny	mine shuts down only when i keep it starving too long	05:11
GeneralAntilles	Well, obviously.	05:11
GeneralAntilles	But SOMETHING is causing the resets.	05:11
GeneralAntilles	I'm assuming you've reflashed?	05:12
KotCzarny	rm_you: have you tried disabling wd ?	05:12
rm_you	how can i turn off watchdog so i will have time to see?	05:12
KotCzarny	use flasher tool	05:12
rm_you	i've tried looking it up and failed	05:12
rm_you	i'm on windoze ATM due to work	05:12
rm_you	<_<	05:12
GeneralAntilles	You need the linucks flasher.	05:12
rm_you	is there not a way to disable it on the device?	05:12
rm_you	like, FROM the device?	05:12
KotCzarny	hmm	05:12
lcuk	vmware image is linux :)	05:13
KotCzarny	you can try setting interval	05:13
GeneralAntilles	Not that I know of.	05:13
KotCzarny	to some high number	05:13
rm_you	where is the interval setting?	05:13
KotCzarny	somewhere in /sys	05:13
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KotCzarny	by default it's ~60sec	05:13
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KotCzarny	/sys/devices/platform/retu-watchdog/	05:14
KotCzarny	echo 600 > /sys/devices/platform/retu-watchdog/period	05:14
KotCzarny	(haven't tried it, but report if it helps)	05:15
KotCzarny	hmm	05:15
rm_you	that would make it every... 600 seconds?	05:15
KotCzarny	seems to be ignored	05:15
rm_you	:/	05:15
KotCzarny	maybe dbus	05:15
KotCzarny	or kernel recompile	05:16
KotCzarny	http://maemo.org/community/wiki/Flasher_tool_usage/	05:18
KotCzarny	no-omap-wd no-retu-wd no-lifeguard-reset	05:19
KotCzarny	:>	05:19
KotCzarny	flasher --set-rd-flags no-omap-wd,no-retu-wd,no-lifeguard-reset	05:21
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KotCzarny	probably something like this	05:21
rm_you	can i do that without actually flashing the device?	05:21
KotCzarny	yes	05:21
rm_you	hrm	05:21
KotCzarny	it's probably setting flags	05:22
rm_you	i will try downloading the vmware	05:22
rm_you	or...	05:22
rm_you	ah!	05:22
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rm_you	i have an ubuntu livecd somewhere here	05:22
rm_you	i can shove that in my laptop	05:22
GeneralAntilles	Woo!	05:22
KotCzarny	but be aware	05:22
KotCzarny	that if the device really hangs	05:22
KotCzarny	you will have to take out battery	05:23
KotCzarny	to reboot it	05:23
KotCzarny	:)	05:23
rm_you	hrm k	05:23
rm_you	lets see...	05:23
KotCzarny	because no reboot button	05:23
rm_you	do i just plug in the usb and run the flasher?	05:23
rm_you	i have no idea how to do this... sigh	05:23
rm_you	off to forums	05:23
KotCzarny	probably	05:23
KotCzarny	:)	05:23
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rm_you	i was trying to work on a UT3 mapping project for class, but i need a break >_<	05:24
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GeneralAntilles	flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags	05:24
GeneralAntilles	That's throw you the options.	05:24
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rm_you	ima do this i think:	05:29
rm_you	./flasher-3.0 --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags no-omap-wd,no-retu-wd,no-lifeguard-reset	05:29
rm_you	look good?	05:29
KotCzarny	probably	05:29
KotCzarny	i'm not sure about --enable-rd-mode	05:29
rm_you	well, i never did it	05:29
KotCzarny	but it shouldn't break too much	05:30
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rm_you	and that makes it easier to sudo, yes?	05:30
KotCzarny	try with and without it	05:30
KotCzarny	you can try testing each wd flag separately	05:30
GeneralAntilles	Don't you have easyroot or something installed. :P	05:30
KotCzarny	to pinpoint which one is responsible for resets	05:30
rm_you	yeah i do..	05:30
rm_you	whatever	05:30
rm_you	anyway, so i tried ./flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags no-omap-wd,no-retu-wd,no-lifeguard-reset	05:31
rm_you	and it just prints out the possible rd flags again	05:31
GeneralAntilles	--set-rd-flags=no-omap-wd	05:31
rm_you	ah	05:31
rm_you	=\	05:31
rm_you	doesnt say to use =	05:31
GeneralAntilles	Meh	05:31
GeneralAntilles	It's Nokia	05:31
rm_you	hrm	05:33
rm_you	so now it has a little wrench icon on the load screen ^_^	05:33
KotCzarny	huh	05:33
rm_you	cute	05:33
GeneralAntilles	It gets old fast.	05:33
KotCzarny	wrench as in 'something is screwed'	05:33
KotCzarny	;)	05:33
rm_you	lol	05:33
KotCzarny	just kidding	05:34
rm_you	so how do i make it boot now	05:34
rm_you	it's still in USB boot mode	05:34
GeneralAntilles	flasher-3.0 -R	05:34
GeneralAntilles	You fail hard	05:34
GeneralAntilles	How long have you had this thing? :P	05:34
rm_you	i never used the linux flasher :P	05:35
GeneralAntilles	Erg	05:35
GeneralAntilles	Windows?	05:35
rm_you	i have to... for work :/	05:35
rm_you	i program in VB	05:35
GeneralAntilles	Hahaha	05:35
* KotCzarny shrugs		05:35
rm_you	hrm	05:35
KotCzarny	vb damages brain	05:35
* KotCzarny shrugs again		05:36
rm_you	so i just droped it on my desk from about an inch... and it shut off	05:36
KotCzarny	O.o	05:36
rm_you	0.o	05:36
KotCzarny	then it's physical damage	05:36
GeneralAntilles	That sounds bad	05:36
KotCzarny	somethings is loose on the board	05:36
GeneralAntilles	Still under warranty?	05:36
rm_you	sad, because i've never dropped this thing (besides that same inch maybe once or twice)	05:36
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: doubt it :/	05:36
GeneralAntilles	It's 1 year	05:37
rm_you	bought it on ITT forums used, remember?	05:37
rm_you	no idea	05:37
GeneralAntilles	Ah, right-o.	05:37
rm_you	that was last july...	05:37
GeneralAntilles	Well, couldn't hurt to call, anyway.	05:37
rm_you	how can i find out?	05:37
rm_you	will they tell me?	05:37
rm_you	i dont have a receipt or anything	05:37
KotCzarny	you can tell you lost it	05:37
KotCzarny	;)	05:37
rm_you	lol	05:37
corq-FL	I just upgraded to Hardy on my laptop...my soundcard works but the annoying system beep is somehow also enabled, anyone know how to disable the system beep?	05:37
GeneralAntilles	They should	05:37
KotCzarny	at least you can try	05:37
GeneralAntilles	corq-FL, this isn't #ubuntu	05:38
rm_you	corq-FL: in like... the terminal?	05:38
KotCzarny	corq: remove the speaker from the case	05:38
corq-FL	doh	05:38
corq-FL	thx sorry	05:38
rm_you	you can disable it in the prefs	05:38
rm_you	"terminal bell" checkbox	05:38
rm_you	it's annoying as hell	05:38
KotCzarny	usefull	05:38
KotCzarny	sometimes	05:38
KotCzarny	if you're afk	05:39
KotCzarny	:)	05:39
corq-FL	yay - ah thank you - as it happens my Nokia 810 is working peachy thus far =)	05:40
GeneralAntilles	Visual bell is worse.	05:40
rm_you	Our manufacturing records indicate that your device, serial number 00194F######, may not be in warranty. Please visit our Warranty section or reference your purchase documentation for detailed information about your device's limited warranty. If you determine that your device is within the warranty period, a copy of the proof of purchase is required for repair.	05:42
KotCzarny	ah, well	05:42
GeneralAntilles	orly?	05:42
GeneralAntilles	Huh	05:42
rm_you	that's what their support site says	05:43
GeneralAntilles	Friend up mine just had his fixed after the faceplate fell off	05:43
GeneralAntilles	Didn't need proof of purchase.	05:43
GeneralAntilles	Weird	05:43
KotCzarny	worth a shot	05:43
KotCzarny	online sale or lost receipt way	05:43
KotCzarny	:)	05:43
KotCzarny	in the worst case you can get back money for parts	05:44
rm_you	hrm	05:44
KotCzarny	(on ebay)	05:44
rm_you	i could always open it up and try to find the problem	05:44
rm_you	and take a soldering iron to it, if it's a loose connection	05:44
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KotCzarny	only after calling nokia	05:44
KotCzarny	and thheir refusal to take it	05:44
GeneralAntilles	Good luck with that.	05:45
rm_you	well	05:46
GeneralAntilles	Just remember to follow thoughtfix's disassembly instructions and be VERY careful with the LCD connector.	05:46
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: do me a favor... turn one of your n800s off, take out the battery/SD cards	05:47
rm_you	and shake it near your ear	05:47
GeneralAntilles	OFF?	05:47
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KotCzarny	lol	05:47
GeneralAntilles	But my uptime. ;_;	05:47
rm_you	and tell me if you hear something rattling	05:47
rm_you	towards the DPAD area	05:47
GeneralAntilles	One's 250 miles south with my sister, anyway. :P	05:47
GeneralAntilles	'course	05:47
GeneralAntilles	The buttons are loose.	05:48
rm_you	not the buttons	05:48
rm_you	i'm holding all those down tight	05:48
KotCzarny	rm_you: no rattling	05:48
GeneralAntilles	The internal card latch?	05:48
KotCzarny	but i didn't turn it off	05:48
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: no	05:48
pupnik	i really hate the folks who buy PSPs, NDSs and Iphones and then feel all clever because they broke the license agreement	05:48
GeneralAntilles	Haha	05:48
Navi	pupnik, woo \o/	05:48
GeneralAntilles	Yes, there's still a rattle	05:49
rm_you	pupnik: i greatly enjoyed breaking the license agreement on my DS when i installed DSLinux ^_^	05:49
KotCzarny	pupnik: and then fail at the next firmware update?	05:49
Navi	I want to buy a PSP to break the license agreement	05:49
GeneralAntilles	With both the sd latch and buttons held down	05:49
GeneralAntilles	Maybe the camera wire.	05:49
pupnik	well breaking the license agreement is ok. just ... the mfgrs closed system sucks	05:49
pupnik	sorry i am incoherent	05:49
* GeneralAntilles puts his N800 back together.		05:49
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: yeah i think you're right	05:49
rm_you	i pulled out the camera and it still rattled, but then i turned it all the way around and it stopped the rattle	05:50
rm_you	yeah ok, i dont know if it's a good idea, but recent testing shows that repeatedly smacking the n800 lightly against my hand from about two inches away will make it reboot	05:53
KotCzarny	:/	05:53
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: want to try with yours and see if you can replicate my issue? :P	05:54
rm_you	rofl	05:54
KotCzarny	rm_you: i was carrying mine in backpack whole day	05:54
KotCzarny	and it didn't reboot	05:54
GeneralAntilles	I've done it getting the battery out.	05:54
GeneralAntilles	No, it doesn't	05:54
GeneralAntilles	and I've dropped it onto hard floors more than once	05:54
GeneralAntilles	No dice. :P	05:54
KotCzarny	and my backpack is quite hard place to live :>	05:54
rm_you	hrmrm	05:55
rm_you	i can't find a number for nokia	05:55
rm_you	so soldering iron it is	05:55
KotCzarny	how good are you with smds ?	05:56
KotCzarny	:>	05:56
GeneralAntilles	1-800-1URFAULT	05:56
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woodwizzle	can you uninstall official aps?	06:06
KotCzarny	yes	06:06
woodwizzle	oh cool	06:06
KotCzarny	but some of them are critical	06:07
KotCzarny	and you better know what you are doing	06:07
woodwizzle	I don't have an n810, but I'm considering it, however I know I'd be using unofficial GPS and Media players, I wanted to make sure I could install those and uninstall the originals	06:07
woodwizzle	otherwise I'd run out of space on the built in 2gigs	06:07
KotCzarny	lol	06:07
KotCzarny	out of space?	06:08
GeneralAntilles	The internal card isn't used for application installation.	06:08
GeneralAntilles	Well, except for caching by Application manager.	06:08
woodwizzle	oh, apps are installed on the sd card?	06:08
GeneralAntilles	Everything install onto the internal 256MB flash.	06:08
GeneralAntilles	No	06:08
woodwizzle	oh, doesn't that run out quick?	06:09
KotCzarny	woodwizzle: some are putting data there	06:09
KotCzarny	like maemo-mapper	06:09
KotCzarny	but it's all application configurable	06:09
GeneralAntilles	There are three things in the N810: the internal 256MB of flash for the OS and applications, the 2GB internal card (soldered on SD card), and the external minisd slot	06:09
KotCzarny	most often	06:09
GeneralAntilles	Not particularly	06:09
GeneralAntilles	It really depends on what you install	06:09
GeneralAntilles	You can always boot from a partition on either one of the cards.	06:10
GeneralAntilles	or extend the rootfs to them	06:10
GeneralAntilles	So it's really not an issue.	06:10
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woodwizzle	Cool cool.	06:14
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woodwizzle	It is posible to play ogg and flac by installing an external package right?	06:25
KotCzarny	yes	06:25
KotCzarny	treat it as a laptop	06:25
KotCzarny	with linux of course	06:26
KotCzarny	:)	06:26
KotCzarny	and go to maemo.org	06:26
KotCzarny	for info and software packages	06:26
woodwizzle	Yeah I'm there now.	06:26
KotCzarny	also to garage.maemo.org	06:26
KotCzarny	it's more experimental software	06:27
oob	linux!? but our Novell salesman assured us that Linux doesn't have approval from Microsoft so we shouldn't use it	06:27
KotCzarny	life	06:27
KotCzarny	people hack iphones	06:27
KotCzarny	people hack psps	06:28
woodwizzle	Can it run standard elf binaries? I'd like to put adom on there ;)	06:29
KotCzarny	standard, no, because it's arm	06:29
KotCzarny	but you shouldn't have much trouble compiling the sources for it	06:30
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woodwizzle	adom isn't open source :(	06:31
woodwizzle	my one free as in beer but not as in speech weak spot	06:31
KotCzarny	then you can ask the author to cross compile for armel	06:31
woodwizzle	I'll probably be fine with wesnoth, openttd, and nethack =)	06:31
KotCzarny	you can try running dosemu	06:32
KotCzarny	and dos version of adom..	06:32
KotCzarny	:)	06:32
KotCzarny	if you are really desperate	06:32
KotCzarny	:)	06:32
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woodwizzle	thats pretty cool	06:37
woodwizzle	I had been saving up for an eee pc, but I'm thinking about getting an n810 now instead.	06:37
KotCzarny	why not n800 ?	06:37
GeneralAntilles	How important is pocketability?	06:38
woodwizzle	I'm not sure. I have a laptop that is about 13.3in. I know I want smaller and more linux friendly than that. I'm not sure if an eee is small enough though. I can see some situations where I would only have a pocketable device that I would use	06:39
KotCzarny	how much cpu will you need?	06:40
woodwizzle	Maybe settling a bet in a bar. Looking up an obscure 8-ball rule on the net. (though this of course requires available wifi). I like the idea of it as a portable multimedia player too.	06:40
KotCzarny	ie. do you plan playing 3d games?	06:40
KotCzarny	:>	06:40
GeneralAntilles	The Eee isn't at all pocketable, and its formfactor greatly limits (read: eliminates) any real mobile usability.	06:40
woodwizzle	Though the 8gb limit isn't quite the ammount I would like	06:40
GeneralAntilles	ebooks are awesome, too.	06:40
GeneralAntilles	SD cards will get bigger	06:40
KotCzarny	erm. what 8gb limit?	06:40
GeneralAntilles	The 16s will be out soon.	06:40
woodwizzle	I read that the n810 could only handle an 8gb card	06:41
GeneralAntilles	32s by the end of summer.	06:41
KotCzarny	old news	06:41
KotCzarny	:)	06:41
GeneralAntilles	That's what Nokia tested it with	06:41
KotCzarny	it will support ANY sdhc card	06:41
KotCzarny	(roughly)	06:41
GeneralAntilles	The hardware limit is 2048GB	06:41
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KotCzarny	because there may be incompatibilities	06:41
KotCzarny	but if storage space is an issue get n800	06:41
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KotCzarny	(2 sd slots)	06:41
KotCzarny	regular ones	06:41
KotCzarny	not mini sd	06:41
KotCzarny	so: cheaper sd cards	06:42
KotCzarny	;)	06:42
KotCzarny	and more storage space	06:42
rm_you	n800 > n810 imo	06:42
KotCzarny	yes	06:42
woodwizzle	Yeah I saw that, I dunno if I'm willing to give up the keyboard though. Also I like GPS a lot.	06:42
KotCzarny	n810 is a little step backward and to the side	06:42
GeneralAntilles	The GPS on the N810 sucks.	06:43
KotCzarny	get bt gps	06:43
rm_you	woodwizzle: buy an external bluetooth GPS for $60	06:43
KotCzarny	and you're done	06:43
GeneralAntilles	Better off with a Bluetooth GPS	06:43
rm_you	it's WAY better than the n810 internal	06:43
GeneralAntilles	That has a quarter of the acquisition time, can get and hold a lock indoors, and has much better accuracy overall	06:43
woodwizzle	Is the n800 pocketable? I know the 810 is smaller	06:43
KotCzarny	not much	06:44
GeneralAntilles	Oh, and, optionally, run at 5Hz	06:44
rm_you	woodwizzle: i do it	06:44
KotCzarny	they're comparable	06:44
GeneralAntilles	They're both plenty pocketable.	06:44
GeneralAntilles	N800 is mostly longer.	06:44
KotCzarny	few mm at most	06:44
woodwizzle	run at 5hz?	06:44
GeneralAntilles	As opposed to 1Hz	06:44
woodwizzle	what do you mean?	06:44
GeneralAntilles	Update rate	06:44
GeneralAntilles	of the GPS	06:44
woodwizzle	ah	06:44
rm_you	woodwizzle: i pocket my n800 in a normal pair of jeans...	06:44
GeneralAntilles	http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2258/1618802881_97ed377747.jpg	06:44
GeneralAntilles	Both are perfectly pocketable.	06:45
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woodwizzle	Its about $150 cheaper too	06:46
GeneralAntilles	$200 USD is the price I would shoot for for the N800.	06:46
rm_you	yeah, but an n800 for $200, bt GPS/Keyboard = ~$100 extra	06:46
rm_you	and you get a better GPS and keyboard	06:46
KotCzarny	:)	06:46
KotCzarny	kb is 25$	06:46
woodwizzle	amason has it fo 241	06:46
rm_you	i said "~"	06:47
Navi	you can get a usb keyboard for 15	06:47
KotCzarny	VERY good gps is 95$	06:47
KotCzarny	bt kb (25$)	06:47
rm_you	VERY good gps is $60	06:47
woodwizzle	a bt keyboard is not pocketable	06:47
rm_you	woodwizzle: this one is	06:47
KotCzarny	rm_you: chipset?	06:47
KotCzarny	woodwizzle: i disagree	06:47
KotCzarny	google for igo ultra-slim	06:47
rm_you	KotCzarny: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858702003	06:47
rm_you	i have this one, it's amazing	06:48
GeneralAntilles	iTrek is boring	06:48
KotCzarny	"waiting for newegg.com..."	06:48
rm_you	cold-lock in < 30s, hot-lock in < 10s	06:48
KotCzarny	:)	06:48
GeneralAntilles	Get one of the i-blues	06:48
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: cheap and nice	06:48
GeneralAntilles	i-blues offer 5Hz	06:48
rm_you	linky?	06:49
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: i don't know how GPS could get better than this thing >_>	06:49
GeneralAntilles	They're the same chipset	06:49
rm_you	ok	06:49
rm_you	so how is that one better? :P	06:49
GeneralAntilles	5hz	06:49
GeneralAntilles	or solar with the 757	06:49
rm_you	how does that make gps better? :P	06:50
GeneralAntilles	or internal memory with the 747	06:50
GeneralAntilles	5hz gives you better accuracy.	06:50
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KotCzarny	sdio based gps would be a hit	06:50
KotCzarny	:>	06:50
rm_you	this thing is ridiculously accurate	06:50
rm_you	like i said...	06:50
rm_you	i don't know how GPS could get better than this thing >_>	06:50
GeneralAntilles	5hz > 1hz	06:50
GeneralAntilles	http://www.amazon.com/i-Trek-M7-Bluetooth-Receiver-15hrs/dp/B0013CHFK2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1207021818&sr=8-1	06:50
rm_you	but... it tracks me within like 1 foot	06:51
GeneralAntilles	So does mine.	06:51
rm_you	...	06:51
rm_you	right	06:51
rm_you	so how is that better?!	06:51
elb	you don't have any GPS tracking within 1 foot	06:51
elb	if it's telling you that, it's lying	06:51
GeneralAntilles	5hz updates more often.	06:51
GeneralAntilles	So you get cleaner tracks and better accuracy through turns.	06:51
woodwizzle	which ones cheaper	06:51
rm_you	elb: I walk outside, i look at gps, i look at my surroundings, i determine it's within +/- 1 foot	06:51
rm_you	elb: it didn't tell me that, I decided that :P	06:52
* Proteous plops out his epeen to join the debate		06:52
GeneralAntilles	The map isn't accurate enough to determine that kind of accuracy. :P	06:52
elb	if you're talking about relative GPS (with a fixed ground station for reference) you should be able to get fractions of an inch	06:52
Proteous	I'm talking about second cousin GPS	06:52
elb	but GPS signals simply don't have enough accuracy to give you 1' resolution, even with corrective data from WAAS etc.	06:52
Proteous	does that count?	06:52
rm_you	google sattelite map shows me when i'm under my porch, which is about 3ft wide, lol	06:53
KotCzarny	proteous: you track your cousin?	06:53
KotCzarny	O.o	06:53
GeneralAntilles	woodwizzle, get the M7 from semsons here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0013CHFK2/ref=dp_olp_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1207021818&sr=8-1	06:53
KotCzarny	sick!	06:53
Proteous	yeah, with relative GPS	06:53
elb	rm_you: any particular given location might be within 1' at any particular given time	06:53
KotCzarny	relatively sick!	06:53
Proteous	sic	06:53
GeneralAntilles	Proteous has a sick, sick mind.	06:53
elb	but GPS doesn't give you a single location, it gives you a probability distribution for a location	06:54
Proteous	I could be on mars	06:54
Proteous	GPS wouldn't tell me that	06:54
elb	and the best you can hope for is about 9'	06:54
elb	(with 95% probability, if I recall correctly)	06:54
rm_you	i have no idea what the statistics on this thing are... i'm just telling you my real-world observations	06:54
Proteous	depends on if GPS has been degraded by the military	06:54
elb	it hasn't	06:55
rm_you	and frankly, i don't care about the specs, as long as the real-world observations are this good :P	06:55
woodwizzle	how big are those recievers? Could I fit the reciever and the n800 in the same pocket or same case (preferably with a belt clip)	06:55
Proteous	if it can direct me to the fridge to find beer then I don't care	06:55
elb	if you stand on your porch for a few minutes, you should see yourself drifting out from under it	06:55
Proteous	(sometimes I get lost)	06:55
Proteous	I had that happen to me elb	06:55
elb	anyway, you're welcome to believe whatever you want -- just don't try to count on it for resolution better than a few yards	06:55
Proteous	but I had eaten some moldy stuff from the fridge right before	06:55
GeneralAntilles	woodwizzle, I usually carry mine in a watchpocket when I take it with me.	06:56
woodwizzle	You mean that little mini jean pocket?	06:56
woodwizzle	Thats not bad at all	06:56
GeneralAntilles	Right.	06:56
Proteous	I keep my phone in there when I have me 770 in my pocket	06:56
Proteous	and I'm talking like a pirate it seems	06:57
oob	so you do GeneralAntilles, so you do; http://www.eholster.com/eholsters1.html	06:57
woodwizzle	I have yet to find a n800 for $200	06:57
Proteous	arr, I keeps me phone in theres when I be out to sea	06:57
KotCzarny	woodwizzle: froogle	06:57
KotCzarny	:)	06:57
GeneralAntilles	Haha	06:57
rm_you	wow, it DOES fit in my watch-pocket	06:57
rm_you	crazy :P	06:57
GeneralAntilles	Stylish and functional!	06:57
KotCzarny	i have seen one for ~190	06:57
rm_you	i never knew what that stupid tiny pocket was for :P	06:57
GeneralAntilles	Watches, of course!	06:57
KotCzarny	rm_you: it's for condoms	06:57
KotCzarny	of course	06:57
rm_you	woodwizzle: about two weeks ago i saw one for $180	06:57
GeneralAntilles	Some people like to use it for change. <_<	06:57
elb	that dude is a nerd	06:58
elb	I demand a shoulder holster, though	06:58
GeneralAntilles	elb, that would be me, except it'd be a 9mm in there. :P	06:58
elb	well, I carry a .40	06:58
oob	a nerd sporting the very latest in portable haute couture	06:58
elb	but yeah	06:58
rm_you	woah, sweet: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-miniSync-Retractable-Charge-Cable/dp/B000UOO7NW/ref=pd_sim_dbs_e_title_5	06:58
elb	dressing up just isn't the same with an IWB	06:59
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	06:59
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woodwizzle	How good is the bluetooth on these things?	07:04
woodwizzle	I mean can I use a stereo bluetooth headset and a bluetooth gps and keyboard all at the same time?	07:04
elb	gps is very low rate	07:05
elb	bluetooth is designed to handle more than one headset	07:06
elb	now, I dunno about the Nokia itself	07:06
oob	i've had a bluetooth odb-II tool, phone and keyboard connected concurrently without encountering any issues	07:08
oob	i'd say the odb-II is quite high rate	07:08
woodwizzle	Nice	07:08
woodwizzle	the n800 can do 2 sdhc cards too. Is 16gb the biggest out now? I could get 2 of those for about $60 each. and That gives me the same amount of space as the $500 i touch	07:09
rm_you	oob: where did you buy your odb-II?	07:10
rm_you	woodwizzle: i think 32gb will be out soon...	07:10
Proteous	I modded a retractable USB cable to make it more pocketable: http://mike.ogaz.org/files/usbretract5.jpg	07:10
oob	rm_you, http://www.kbmsystems.net/	07:10
GeneralAntilles	obd-ii is quite cool	07:11
GeneralAntilles	Don't think the data rate is high at all, though.	07:11
rm_you	yeah, i need one...	07:11
rm_you	my car does... odd things sometimes	07:11
woodwizzle	what is obd-ii ?	07:11
oob	no? it seems to poll a lot of sensors	07:11
GeneralAntilles	Maybe somewhere in the range of 50Kbps?	07:11
oob	woodwizzle, an interface to onboard car computers	07:11
GeneralAntilles	Depends on the car, though, I suppose.	07:11
woodwizzle	oh, i know what you mean.	07:12
GeneralAntilles	oob, it's not like there's a lot of data there.	07:12
rm_you	woodwizzle: you plug it into most modern cars (they have a strange looking jack somewhere under a plastic panel usually) and it reads all your car's sensors	07:12
oob	true	07:12
oob	woodwizzle, http://openbossa.indt.org/carman/	07:12
rm_you	about a year ago i had 4 of 5 of my cylinders misfiring >_<	07:12
Proteous	the wierdest thing was that his engine just has 3 cylinders	07:13
woodwizzle	Man that is wicked!	07:14
rm_you	lol	07:14
rm_you	wow, this is expensive >_> $170	07:14
oob	woodwizzle, until someone hacks your n810 and tells your automatic that it in fact has a manual transmission..	07:14
rm_you	lol	07:14
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oob	rm_you, compared to some of the other odb-II interfaces it's better because it's very short	07:19
rm_you	yes	07:19
rm_you	the other ones i saw were all serial interface with bluetooth attachments sold seperately	07:19
GeneralAntilles	I paid $100 for mine.	07:20
GeneralAntilles	Just a rs-232 adaptor, basically.	07:20
oob	this is good for instance in an audi s8, as it fits in the port under the ashtray and doesn't block the sliding door from closing	07:20
rm_you	oob: you just leave it in there all the time?	07:20
rm_you	or just use it for periodic maintenance checks?	07:20
KotCzarny	yawn	07:21
KotCzarny	doh, it's late again	07:21
Proteous	don't you hate that	07:22
KotCzarny	a little	07:22
GeneralAntilles	People with S8s? Yes. :P	07:22
oob	rm_you, the carman application provides realtime monitoring, which is detail that's pertinent when driving, so I have it on when i'm in the car	07:22
woodwizzle	How good is the battery life on an n800 compared to an n810?	07:22
oob	ha!	07:23
KotCzarny	woodwizzle: similiar	07:23
Navi	Does carman still perform horribly on the N8X0s?	07:23
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KotCzarny	they're nearly the same hw	07:23
Proteous	one has a keyboard on GPS	07:23
KotCzarny	disfunctional gps	07:23
Proteous	heh	07:23
KotCzarny	so it doesn't count	07:23
KotCzarny	and kb takes nearly no power	07:24
GeneralAntilles	woodwizzle, they're the same.	07:24
Proteous	it has cell assisted GPS but doesn't have cell phone functionality	07:24
woodwizzle	ok	07:24
KotCzarny	unless you count leds	07:24
GeneralAntilles	The guts aren't really different.	07:24
GeneralAntilles	Navi, haven't tried it with OS2008 yet	07:24
GeneralAntilles	I suspect it'll be better.	07:24
GeneralAntilles	It wasn't actually "horrible" in OS2007 either way	07:24
Proteous	ramping up the processor speed never helped battery life before...	07:24
GeneralAntilles	They have frequency scaling now.	07:25
KotCzarny	but dsp is lowered	07:25
rm_you	Proteous: actually, it ends up being similar... higher cpu for shorter time, vs lower cpu for longer time	07:25
oob	navi - i've only used it on os2008 so can't compare but anecdotally, i find the performance acceptable	07:25
GeneralAntilles	So, most of the time, it's actually running a lot slower than OS2007.	07:25
rm_you	also, yes, good cpu scaling now...	07:25
Proteous	I see	07:25
GeneralAntilles	OS2007 was 330MHz all the time.	07:26
GeneralAntilles	Now we're 165MHz most of the time with trips to 400MHz	07:26
Proteous	damn 330 haters	07:26
KotCzarny	330/220	07:26
GeneralAntilles	Navi, think any performance issues were really ones with the slow serial interface that is OBD-II, anyway.	07:26
Proteous	330MHz all the time was good enough for OS2007, it good enough for you!	07:27
* KotCzarny disabled that mode and is 400/133 now		07:27
Proteous	I found a trick to get my 770 to run at 0Mhz	07:27
KotCzarny	rm_you: you mean overclocking to 500mhz would consume same power?	07:27
KotCzarny	;)	07:27
Proteous	I just leave it on for a day	07:27
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rm_you	KotCzarny: no :P lol	07:28
KotCzarny	ok, time for some c coding	07:29
rm_you	KotCzarny: assuming the same task though, the same number of CPU cycles will be required in the long run, so if you need 5000 cpu cycles to complete a calculation, it will run at 400mhz for a shorter time than on 330mhz... so even though it draws more power per time unit, it runs for less time units :P so it is close to even generally	07:29
KotCzarny	rm_you: i was kidding :)	07:30
rm_you	yeah, and i was feeling long-winded :P	07:30
KotCzarny	;)	07:30
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GeneralAntilles	Race-to-idle	07:30
GeneralAntilles	Is the concept.	07:30
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GeneralAntilles	Get down to the lowest voltage as quickly as possible.	07:30
* KotCzarny runs his pentium-m at 0.7v all the time		07:31
KotCzarny	well, 0.732	07:31
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rm_you	the same thing applies to laptop harddrives... for a long time everyone had 5400rpm drives, because they were lower power... but they also need to spin longer... so it really doesn't make a power difference. though, there is a slight heat difference <_<	07:31
* Proteous just does his binary calculations on a adder he built from legos		07:31
KotCzarny	rm_you: i have swapped hdd for a ide--double cf solution	07:32
KotCzarny	:)	07:32
KotCzarny	*an	07:32
KotCzarny	less power, less noise	07:32
* GeneralAntilles smashes Proteous's legos.		07:32
KotCzarny	and less capacity	07:32
rm_you	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcDshWmhF4A :P	07:32
KotCzarny	but 12gb is enough	07:32
KotCzarny	:)	07:32
woodwizzle	Has anyone installed wesnoth on their maemo device?	07:33
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opendeep	hi	07:33
* Proteous uses fruitloops on toothpicks for memory, it's non volitile, until he gets too hungry		07:33
KotCzarny	shouldn't it be 'openwide' ?	07:33
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woodwizzle	Which is better the I.Trek m5+ or the M7?	07:41
woodwizzle	they look real similar to me	07:41
KotCzarny	then take cheaper	07:41
GeneralAntilles	M7	07:44
GeneralAntilles	Duh	07:44
woodwizzle	I'll prolly be fine with 16gb until the 32gb comes out. Then in the end I'd have 48 =)	07:44
KotCzarny	only if you get n800	07:44
woodwizzle	Yeah, well it looks like I'll be going that way	07:45
KotCzarny	you may wait for 810 successor though	07:45
woodwizzle	When would that be announced?	07:46
KotCzarny	who knows	07:46
woodwizzle	ugh	07:46
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woodwizzle	48-64gb would be more than enough for me, and its more than I could get with an eee with its one slot. the external gps ain't all that bad, especially since its a better quality device	07:47
woodwizzle	who makes the best n800 case?	07:47
KotCzarny	get a case that will fit n800 and gps/kb	07:48
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woodwizzle	KotCzarny: Do you know of one?	07:48
KotCzarny	hmm	07:48
woodwizzle	the few cases i've seen so far don't look to have room for the gps	07:48
KotCzarny	some people suggested harddrive cases	07:48
KotCzarny	:)	07:48
GeneralAntilles	woodwizzle, case logic has a portable harddrive case that if perfect for N800 + iGo	07:49
Italodance	hi guys :D	07:49
GeneralAntilles	or N800 + GPS, cables, memory cards, headset, etc.	07:49
GeneralAntilles	It's in with the hard drives at best buy	07:50
GeneralAntilles	so you can go look at it	07:50
GeneralAntilles	The DS cases aren't bad for the N800, though, either.	07:50
woodwizzle	is this the igo you're talking about? http://www.amazon.com/Stowaway-Ultra-Slim-Bluetooth-Blackberry-Handhelds/dp/B0002OKCXE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1207025384&sr=8-3	07:50
BugBlue	moin	07:51
KotCzarny	i have this one	07:52
KotCzarny	works hum ok ;)	07:52
KotCzarny	most probably key lag is because of bt power saving on the nokia	07:53
GeneralAntilles	Yes	07:53
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woodwizzle	can the n800 do video chat with skype?	07:59
KotCzarny	nope	07:59
KotCzarny	but with gizmo probably yes	07:59
woodwizzle	Arrrgggh!!!	07:59
woodwizzle	All my friends are on skype	07:59
KotCzarny	gizmo is standard sip client	07:59
KotCzarny	well	07:59
KotCzarny	camera on nokias suck anyway	07:59
KotCzarny	trust me	07:59
KotCzarny	:)	07:59
woodwizzle	Yeah but its better than nothing	07:59
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woodwizzle	how good is the still camera? is it better than a camera phone?	08:00
KotCzarny	hmm	08:00
KotCzarny	depends	08:00
KotCzarny	but i'll give it 3.5/10	08:00
woodwizzle	lol	08:00
woodwizzle	Its so nice to have so many device in 1. But 3rd rate gps. Crummy photo quality, etc makes it almost worth while to just get seperate devices	08:01
woodwizzle	not to mention I gotta carry my phone with me too	08:02
KotCzarny	it's not a phone	08:02
KotCzarny	remember	08:02
woodwizzle	i know	08:02
KotCzarny	many people try to treat it as a phone	08:02
woodwizzle	but dammit its nokia	08:02
KotCzarny	and give low ratings	08:02
KotCzarny	well, i have n-gage anyway	08:03
KotCzarny	:)	08:03
woodwizzle	nice	08:03
KotCzarny	classic of course	08:03
KotCzarny	:)	08:03
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woodwizzle	Its still cheaper than an iTouch in the end. Even with the external blue tooth and buying the mem cards to make it the same size	08:05
KotCzarny	and you can reuse bt and cards later	08:05
Italodance	KotCzarny i like n-gage :D	08:05
woodwizzle	And portable wesnoth makes me very happy	08:05
woodwizzle	Are there any must-have accessories that I haven't thought of?	08:06
KotCzarny	maybe external battery?	08:06
woodwizzle	that'll i end up having to buy later	08:06
woodwizzle	does it have that option???	08:06
KotCzarny	it takes 5V	08:07
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KotCzarny	so anything that can provide 5v via standard plug should work i think	08:07
KotCzarny	haven't tested it though	08:07
woodwizzle	You woulda tested it if it was a gotta have =)	08:07
KotCzarny	at 100% cpu with wifi battery is drained in 3-4h	08:08
KotCzarny	:)	08:08
Italodance	KotCzarny new n-gage games can work with urs ?	08:08
Italodance	like Fifa 08	08:08
KotCzarny	italodance: i don't know, probably not	08:08
woodwizzle	thats pretty rough. But i would use it as an mp3 player quite a bit with no wifi or screen	08:08
woodwizzle	thats about 10hrs i hear	08:09
KotCzarny	probably	08:09
Italodance	KotCzarny i want Fifa 08 for IT :D possible?	08:09
KotCzarny	italodance: don't know, probably not	08:09
woodwizzle	Anyone play games on the n800? or do you guys just stick with your ngages	08:09
KotCzarny	woodwizzle: pupnik.de	08:09
KotCzarny	quite a few emulators/games	08:10
rm_you	woodwizzle: doom! :P	08:10
rm_you	woodwizzle: "lxdoom"	08:10
woodwizzle	Doom is ok. I'd prefer something with a bigger multiplayer community	08:10
woodwizzle	like saurbraten	08:10
woodwizzle	or open arena	08:10
KotCzarny	or quake2?	08:11
KotCzarny	;)	08:11
woodwizzle	true	08:11
KotCzarny	there's q2 for n8x0	08:11
woodwizzle	How is the 3d?	08:11
KotCzarny	sotware rendered	08:11
KotCzarny	but fast	08:11
woodwizzle	uses the CPU then	08:11
KotCzarny	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPh2Os0D8pY	08:12
KotCzarny	;)	08:12
KotCzarny	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-dx5ZE4G_0&NR=1	08:13
KotCzarny	LOL	08:13
Italodance	FIFA 08 ?	08:13
woodwizzle	How hard would it be to compile open arena or saurbraten for the m800	08:15
KotCzarny	compilation, shouldn't be a problem	08:15
KotCzarny	game speed could ;)	08:15
woodwizzle	http://openarena.ws/?about	08:17
woodwizzle	says it can run on real slow CPUs but recommends 233mhz with more than 90mb of ram	08:17
woodwizzle	which is less specs than then n800	08:17
woodwizzle	but they also say there are using a hardware video card with at least 8MB ram	08:18
KotCzarny	;)	08:18
KotCzarny	sorry, no drivers for hardware 3d	08:18
KotCzarny	for now	08:18
woodwizzle	poop	08:19
KotCzarny	a little	08:19
tsukasa	hey is there an emulator for n800?	08:19
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tsukasa	like windows emulator	08:19
tsukasa	that runs n800	08:19
KotCzarny	yes	08:20
tsukasa	where at?	08:20
KotCzarny	it's included with sdk	08:20
tsukasa	cool	08:20
KotCzarny	it's more an simulator than emulator though	08:20
tsukasa	?	08:20
KotCzarny	same story as with symbian sdk	08:21
KotCzarny	you get an environment that simulates the device	08:21
woodwizzle	hmm.. Gotta check the specs. Something like Assault Cube might be doable	08:22
tsukasa	how is that different/better/worst then an emulator?	08:22
KotCzarny	runs fast	08:22
woodwizzle	How do you control doom and quake? Do you need a bluetooth mouse?	08:22
Italodance	tsukasa where are u from?	08:22
KotCzarny	because actual code is compiled for x86	08:22
tsukasa	Italodance, texas	08:22
Italodance	ok :D	08:22
KotCzarny	so you can test how developed app feels like	08:22
KotCzarny	and you can test for bugs	08:23
tsukasa	KotCzarny, so it functions the same just on a diff arch	08:23
KotCzarny	yeah	08:23
tsukasa	KotCzarny, the entire os and everything is there and works tho right	08:23
KotCzarny	but it doesn't have dsp emulation	08:23
KotCzarny	so anything trying to speak directly to hardware will fail	08:23
KotCzarny	tsukasa: yes	08:23
tsukasa	cool	08:23
KotCzarny	i guess	08:23
KotCzarny	but you can't run arm binaries on it	08:24
tsukasa	yeah..	08:24
KotCzarny	that's why it's simulator	08:24
KotCzarny	:)	08:24
KotCzarny	never used it though	08:24
KotCzarny	i just mount my pc's dir via sshfs and run directly on device	08:25
KotCzarny	;)	08:25
tsukasa	does the n800 have ir?	08:25
KotCzarny	nope	08:25
tsukasa	thats sucks	08:25
KotCzarny	why?	08:25
tsukasa	because otherwise it could be a universal remote too	08:25
KotCzarny	there's usb	08:25
KotCzarny	;)	08:25
tsukasa	hey if anyone in here works for nokia	08:25
KotCzarny	usb--irda should work	08:25
tsukasa	a 30cent ir port would be nice	08:25
KotCzarny	space issues?	08:26
tsukasa	i know but it costs like nothing to include	08:26
KotCzarny	:)	08:26
tsukasa	i guess	08:26
tsukasa	the added functionality is worth it imo	08:26
KotCzarny	it's already packed up to the top	08:26
KotCzarny	consider this:	08:26
KotCzarny	they have to throw out sd slots from n800 to make additional features fit into n810	08:26
Cptnodegard	sure	08:27
KotCzarny	*had	08:27
tsukasa	gps is slightly more involved then ir though, im guessing	08:27
Cptnodegard	they removed them to make it thing and pointless, macbook aiur style	08:27
KotCzarny	n800 ftw!	08:27
tsukasa	KotCzarny, also consider the other side of the argument, you spend like $250 for a logitech harmony which is a universal remote with touchscreen with enough space to save like 50 configurations	08:28
tsukasa	or you add a 30 cent ir attachment to the n800 and your done	08:28
KotCzarny	:)	08:28
KotCzarny	tsukasa, as i said usb--irda	08:28
Cptnodegard	but i totally agree that ir port would pwn, there are apps to work as universal remote. a usb thingy isnt a solution either because of the stupid placement of the usb port	08:28
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KotCzarny	is there any bt-irda ?	08:28
tank-man	i think ive seen one	08:29
Cptnodegard	i think so... or wifi ones. that app has to use somethig :p the universal remote one	08:29
tank-man	you can use a ir remote with the ps3 bluetooth	08:29
Cptnodegard	what would pwn would be a to a have an app for a cellphone, working as bt-ir bridge	08:30
Cptnodegard	just leave the cell by the stereo and control from n8x0	08:30
KotCzarny	not a problem	08:30
KotCzarny	:)	08:30
Cptnodegard	thats available?	08:31
KotCzarny	for someone who can program java or symbian ;)	08:31
Cptnodegard	go to work then ;P	08:31
KotCzarny	how much would you pay me?	08:31
KotCzarny	:P	08:31
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Cptnodegard	10000 simoleans?	08:32
KotCzarny	how much it is in EUR ?	08:32
Cptnodegard	0	08:32
KotCzarny	not enough then	08:32
Cptnodegard	simoleans are from The Sims	08:32
KotCzarny	never played the sims	08:32
Cptnodegard	i would do it but i cant program my dick to piss straight	08:33
woodwizzle	How fast is the ARM CPU running maemo and all. Does it feel quick?	08:33
KotCzarny	woodwizzle: depends	08:33
KotCzarny	interface is fast	08:33
Cptnodegard	57mph	08:33
woodwizzle	How about video performance?	08:33
KotCzarny	browser can be slow sometimes	08:33
tank-man	9.8m/s/s	08:34
Cptnodegard	stuttering no matter how small the video is	08:34
KotCzarny	but there are developed fast versions	08:34
KotCzarny	cpt: not true	08:34
KotCzarny	:)	08:34
Cptnodegard	does with me	08:34
KotCzarny	it's all because xomap is reniced to -1	08:34
Cptnodegard	and from what i can see on itt, it does with others too	08:34
Cptnodegard	the what has donewhat?	08:34
KotCzarny	:)	08:34
tank-man	encode your videos with a smaller resolution	08:36
Cptnodegard	the secondary stabilizer in the gyrodane relee has depolarized	08:36
Cptnodegard	320x240 is small enough, theres still hickups (not constant stuttering)	08:36
tank-man	are you using mplayer ?	08:37
tank-man	or some frontend with that?	08:37
Cptnodegard	mplayer	08:38
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KotCzarny	cpt: i have no stuttering with 720x448 vid	08:39
KotCzarny	with content over sshfs	08:39
KotCzarny	:)	08:39
Cptnodegard	stuttering or hickups? as what im talking about is playing videos and getting stuttering for 2 secs or so randomly on small videos	08:40
KotCzarny	as i said, renice your xomap to 0	08:40
KotCzarny	ps ax\|grep Xomap	08:40
Cptnodegard	yeah i dunno wtf that means, sorry :)	08:40
KotCzarny	then take first number and: renice -0 number	08:40
tank-man	i didnt have to renice any app	08:41
blafasel	What's xomap anyway?	08:41
KotCzarny	xserver	08:41
Cptnodegard	ops school	08:41
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KotCzarny	btw.	08:50
KotCzarny	there's mplayer .26 on the garage	08:50
KotCzarny	and .25 is completely removed ;)	08:51
Italodance	KotCzarny 25 is better than 26	08:54
woodwizzle	If I want to see if something compiles for maemo, can I just try to compile it for a maemo emulator?	08:59
woodwizzle	That way I can test if some programs are compatible	08:59
KotCzarny	why?	08:59
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KotCzarny	ah. because you don't have n8x0 yet	09:00
KotCzarny	yes	09:00
KotCzarny	you can test it in simulator	09:00
woodwizzle	Does it scale to the speed and resolution of the n800?	09:01
KotCzarny	don't know	09:01
KotCzarny	you should read docs :)	09:01
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johnx	I'm pretty sure it just emulates away as fast as your host computer is capable of	09:02
KotCzarny	johnx: it's not an emulator	09:02
KotCzarny	:)	09:02
johnx	KotCzarny, are you talking about qemu?	09:02
KotCzarny	nope, about x86 target	09:02
KotCzarny	and xephyr	09:03
johnx	ah, why would he test in that though? he asked about an emulator...	09:03
KotCzarny	because he ocnsiders buying IT	09:03
KotCzarny	considers	09:03
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KotCzarny	and wanted to test some software first	09:04
johnx	ah, right...I keep forgetting that you can't just compile for arm and run with qemu	09:05
KotCzarny	:)	09:05
KotCzarny	you can't	09:05
KotCzarny	?	09:05
* KotCzarny tries		09:05
johnx	I thought it didn't work all the time? why wouldn't he do that if it works?	09:05
* johnx is confused, wanders off		09:05
* johnx drinks coffee		09:06
KotCzarny	:)	09:06
KotCzarny	worked	09:06
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KotCzarny	it wouldn't work if software uses unsupported instructions	09:06
KotCzarny	or just tries to bang on hw	09:06
johnx	right, and most software I've tried ends up hitting unsupported functions, but in theory it works at least	09:07
KotCzarny	upgrade qemu	09:07
KotCzarny	:)	09:07
* johnx doesn't care enough...		09:07
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Italodance	wimax is available for n800?	09:20
KotCzarny	in the same way as gsm/gprs/edge	09:20
KotCzarny	{standard input}:10283: Error: co-processor offset out of range	09:23
KotCzarny	o.O	09:23
KotCzarny	and it's in.. font_load_ft.c	09:23
KotCzarny	O.o	09:23
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KotCzarny	removing -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp helped	09:24
KotCzarny	o.O	09:24
KotCzarny	.26 looks broken hard :/	09:27
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johnx	Italodance, no	09:27
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KotCzarny	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSY_9H23FyY	09:29
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Italodance	johnx where can i add fonts to n800?	09:32
KotCzarny	http://www.playgizmo.ru/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/pspbig.jpg	09:32
KotCzarny	psp2 concept design	09:33
KotCzarny	sexy	09:33
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KotCzarny	http://www.flickr.com/photos/23754022@N08/2257628900/sizes/o/	09:34
Italodance	KotCzarny nice!	09:34
KotCzarny	bigger res here	09:34
Italodance	KotCzarny where can i add fonts to n800?	09:34
KotCzarny	italodance: /usr/share/fonts/	09:34
Italodance	tnx	09:34
KotCzarny	somewhere below that dir	09:34
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Italodance	: /fonts/ yes or /usr/share/fonts/Nokia/ ?	09:35
KotCzarny	don't know	09:36
KotCzarny	try for yourself	09:36
Italodance	ok	09:36
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KotCzarny	google error	09:44
KotCzarny	Translation from English into English is not supported.	09:44
KotCzarny	lol	09:44
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ameng	Hi, can mplayer on your n810 play rmvb video?	09:49
KotCzarny	yes	09:49
KotCzarny	erm.	09:49
KotCzarny	or maybe not	09:50
KotCzarny	i think it only lists my codecs.conf file	09:50
ameng	mine cannot,why?	09:50
KotCzarny	probably no open source decoder	09:50
ameng	mplayer on my ubuntu pc can play	09:51
KotCzarny	that's different	09:51
KotCzarny	because there's binary codec for x86	09:51
KotCzarny	few of them even	09:51
ameng	you mean lack of source of the codec for arm to compile?	09:52
KotCzarny	yes	09:52
KotCzarny	or even lack of binary version	09:52
KotCzarny	released by realmedia	09:52
ameng	:-(	09:53
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woodwizzle	Does maemo have a decent PIM app?	10:09
johnx	kinda, sorta	10:09
inz	openedhand and gpe are trying to fill that gap	10:09
johnx	poke at gpe calendar and openhand pimlico dates and see if they're what you want	10:10
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johnx	PIM is not its strength but I actually like o-hand dates well enough	10:10
wom-	if you use google calendar you can view and add events with this code.google.com/p/googbus	10:10
wom-	its sitll early days for that though	10:10
woodwizzle	dates looks good	10:11
woodwizzle	What about syncing my tomboy notes?	10:11
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Navi	johnx, sadly, development on it's been kind of dead	10:29
Navi	The bug tracker piles up while no svn commits are made	10:29
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KotCzarny	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yZ0b19E67k	10:34
KotCzarny	hehe	10:34
prograf	Today Jamiroquai - High Times Singles 1992 - 2006	10:38
KotCzarny	http://blog.abrenna.com/formal-protest-against-norways-yes-to-ooxml/	10:39
KotCzarny	lol	10:39
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inz	jott, I wonder if vte 0.16 would bring anything new and fancy	10:46
inz	jott, tried yesterday, and it compiles -- and I could even "port" my maemo-changes to it	10:46
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AD-N770	bon dia / good morning	11:01
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:05
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Gatestone	Any ideas what's happening now when Nokia bought Trolltech?	11:46
jaska	one could hope theyd be throwing away symbian :)	11:47
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TheFool	anything good happen lately on the maemo front?	11:48
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Gatestone	Any feelings about Android here, have you looket at the toolkit?	11:51
aquatix	android is not what you would call `open'	11:51
aquatix	it's an interesting platform though	11:51
Gatestone	Why is it not open?	11:52
liri	do you think nokia will ever put basic cellular capabilities in the internet tablet series?	11:52
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aquatix	even if it's based on linux, they only open up the device for developers through their java platform	11:52
aquatix	similar to how existing linux-based dumbphones work	11:53
aquatix	except that android is a lot spiffier than that mini java	11:53
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Gatestone	How about LiMo?I am just trying to figure out the future of phones, and it looks to me that it is Nokia/Symbian vs. Apple vs. Android vs. maybe something else?	11:54
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Gatestone	And I am not sure if the "something else" is viable, really.	11:54
aquatix	`something else' could be access' linux platform	11:54
aquatix	which i think is quite nice, but i'm not sure how many devices we will see with it	11:55
aquatix	fun thing is that nokia currently has 3 platforms; symbian s60, maemo and now qt	11:55
aquatix	maybe we'll see qt phones	11:55
Gatestone	I am not really interested in my won perspective as a user, just trying to forecast the market in 10 years from now.	11:55
aquatix	that'd be nice i guess	11:56
aquatix	hm	11:56
aquatix	i'm not sure how long symbian will live	11:56
jaska	hopefully not long	11:56
aquatix	linux will have a large market share	11:56
Gatestone	(I have a N70 which is pretty lame, I am dreaming of an Android or iPhone...)	11:56
MangoFusion	personally i think android is quite a nifty idea. though its a pity you can (currently) only make apps for it in java	11:56
aquatix	and i think it heads to open phones [as in: easily developed for]	11:56
aquatix	MangoFusion: yeah	11:57
aquatix	it's really nice, but they only opened those abilities to their java layer	11:57
aquatix	otoh, java is a nice, object oriented language	11:57
aquatix	however, the android java is yet another dialect	11:57
jaska	java nice?	11:58
aquatix	it's not the real java	11:58
jaska	this is april 1st indeed	11:58
Gatestone	Why I am on this channel, is that I should do a Maemo presentation for our (beginning) Linux developers.	11:58
aquatix	jaska: depends on your point of view ;)	11:58
aquatix	at can be nice :)	11:58
aquatix	i hope maemo sticks around	11:58
MangoFusion	though should be possible to target other languages to it. just like there is JRuby, Jython, C for J2ME, etc	11:58
aquatix	for the more serious devices	11:58
aquatix	MangoFusion: android's java != j2me	11:59
aquatix	fyi :)	11:59
MangoFusion	sure but i am just generalising here	11:59
aquatix	kk :)	11:59
Gatestone	I guess some kind of interpreted virtual machine standard would be nice for a phone platform, with device drivers offering higher performance functionality like multimedia or 3D graphics rendering.	12:00
aquatix	yeah	12:01
aquatix	that's exactly what android's doing	12:01
Italodance	ummm i want skin for mplayer available???????????????	12:01
aquatix	so i think it's quite nice	12:01
aquatix	but it's not an open linux phone platform	12:01
blafasel	Btw: I'd really like to see an OpenMoko phone finally	12:04
MangoFusion	anyone tried plonking the openmoko os on a NIT? ;)	12:05
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aquatix	MangoFusion: i like maemo better on my NIT ;)	12:14
MangoFusion	but...but... you don't get a cool fullscreen phone dialer!	12:14
MangoFusion	:P	12:14
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Gatestone	I guess we haven't seen the final solution yet. There is room for some technological revelutions here.	12:23
Gatestone	BTW, look how one non-standard innovation can grab a lot of market, like Blackberry, or iPhone. So if you come up with a GOOD CHEAP phone, it does not matter which tech it uses internally.	12:24
blafasel	Depends. It does matter for those who care.	12:30
blafasel	It doesn't matter for your investors if you happen to sell the iPhone PLUS, I give you that.	12:31
Lynoure	I don't see Blackberry or iPhone very non-standard, just kind of continuation of Treo :)	12:31
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Gatestone	Here is my candidate for the future phone software revolution, presentation by Dennis Ritchie http://cm.bell-labs.com/iwp9/dmr_iwp9.ppt. Ritchie mentions the PathStar softswitch, but does not mentione that Lucent also did an Inferno land line phone, and implemented hand-writing recognition for a test phone in the lab, using Plan 9 / Inferno.	13:24
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eichi	what about java for maemo? iwant to run josm, for openstreetmap	13:30
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aquatix	Gatestone: whoa, a phone running plan 9?	13:49
blafasel	Gatestone: Whoa, a link to a ppt file?	13:50
aquatix	yeah, that too :)	13:50
snake_mountain	OK	13:53
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aquatix	or, bye?	13:54
aquatix	*er	13:54
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aquatix	hm, i wonder when/if microb will be updated soonish with a newer version of gecko	14:05
Jaffa	aquatix: hopefully with today's (hopeful) release of diablo (maemo 4.1)	14:08
aquatix	ooh :)	14:09
aquatix	that'd be neat	14:09
aquatix	dangit, then i'll have to reinstall stuff	14:09
aquatix	oh well ;)	14:09
Jaffa	Last time, as diablo is expected to bring in incremental upgrades.	14:11
aquatix	neat	14:11
aquatix	how did i miss that? :)	14:12
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blafasel	Jaffa: Same details about that? An announcement?	14:18
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aquatix	blafasel: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17727	14:21
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blafasel	The "Are we talking about the PC game" comment is sad, very sad..	14:28
blafasel	But thanks for the link	14:29
glass	~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~hehe	14:29
glass	uups	14:29
aquatix	blafasel: hm, missed that comment :)	14:29
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thux_n800	can osso-xterm open browser like gnome-terminal?	14:31
thux_n800	from link	14:32
Jaffa	NAFAIK :(	14:33
thux_n800	ok just it underlines link same way	14:33
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Jaffa	thux: it's using the same library under the covers (vte) just doesn't implement the callback	14:48
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ccooke	Oooh, that was odd.	15:01
ccooke	Sudden reboot.	15:01
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Mikho	would somebody know if N770 USB port supports OTG?	15:29
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hullfandan	I have a 770 (running os2007 hacker edition) and I can't seem to get root on it anymore. sudo gainroot works but I don't get prompted for a password and can't execute my app. sudo su get a permission denied. Anyone got any clues to what I set up wrong. It's a while since I did it now so I am stumpted :/	15:33
hullfandan	actuall sudo su say that user user isn't allowed to execute /bin/su	15:34
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hullfandan	anyone? even if it is just to tell me to go away :)	15:35
Mikho	usr/sbin/gainroot has never asked me for a password	15:36
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hullfandan	iirc it's best to just use gainroot once to set up user as a superuser so in future you just use 'sudo su'?	15:38
pupnik	https://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot	15:38
* mgedmin never understands why people use 'sudo su' and not 'sudo -s'		15:39
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hullfandan	I have done that HowdoIbecomeRoot before but some time ago,	15:41
hullfandan	gainroot seems to be working but I can't execute anything? any ideas why that might be	15:41
hullfandan	Just getting that I don't have persmisson to execute ./	15:42
hullfandan	which suggests I am not actually root	15:42
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sp3000	or the file does not have execute bit set	15:45
felipec	mgedmin: what's the difference?	15:47
mgedmin	one uses two tools where one would suffice	15:47
mgedmin	I suppose it's just a matter of elegance	15:47
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blafasel	hullfandan: What are you trying to do?	15:51
inz	hull, are you trying to run from a mmc card?	15:51
blafasel	sudo su doesn't work, because you probably didn't allow that in the /etc/sudoers (or the equivalent)	15:52
hullfandan	I am trying to run an application i developed. I am sure i have run it before but I could have forgot and updated it without setting execute bit. can i check this on maemo device?	15:52
blafasel	But you seem to be mixing things anyway, somehow	15:52
blafasel	ls -l	15:52
blafasel	And you don't need root so far	15:52
hullfandan	I am pretty new to linux so appologies for any noobishness	15:52
blafasel	Unless you forgot to mention something ;)	15:52
hullfandan	I thought I needed root to ftp/ssh stuff to the device over wifi and to execute it?	15:53
blafasel	ls -l and look at the output. it should probably be -rwxr-x-- yourfile or something	15:53
hullfandan	yeah it is -rwxr-xr-x	15:54
blafasel	So it is eXecutable	15:54
blafasel	You can run it as it is.	15:54
blafasel	If you are in that directory: ./yourapplication	15:54
hullfandan	I have run it in the past, so I am confused why it's no longer working	15:54
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hullfandan	oh ffs, it is running now :( but I changed notthing sobs	15:55
hullfandan	thanks	15:55
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blafasel	Did you use "./" at the start before as well?	15:56
blafasel	Are you sure that you were in the right directory?	15:56
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hullfandan	I think maybe I did that as root but just then I just did ./ before trying to become root	15:56
felipec	mgedmin: ahh	15:57
hullfandan	yeah, I was in the right dir and typed it right, I'm a noob but not that bad :)	15:57
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hullfandan	Thanks for your help.	15:57
blafasel	I still don't understand what your problem was, but - you're welcome ;)	15:57
hullfandan	lol, :)	15:58
hullfandan	basicaly I didn't need to become root. I just needed to run it.	15:58
hullfandan	do you need to become root to ftp stuff to the device?	15:58
blafasel	TO?	15:58
blafasel	Huh? You mean downloading files on the device?	15:59
blafasel	No.	15:59
blafasel	Uploading to the device? Depending on the software used: No	15:59
hullfandan	yes, when I build a new version in scrathbox I am currently ftping it to the device	15:59
hullfandan	ok, thanks	15:59
pupnik	you have an ftp server on the device?	15:59
aquatix	can't you better scp?	15:59
blafasel	ftpint to the device translates to "FTP Server on the Nokia" to me	15:59
aquatix	just a thought	15:59
hullfandan	what is scp. Anything that speeds up testing on the device would be great. It is a bit of a pain at the moment	16:00
blafasel	I think you are just downloading though, right? That's not bad at all. FTP is less secure than SSH, but it was meant for file transfers. So use it for that and don't even think about switching to HTTP (or using ssh if there's no incentive)	16:01
hullfandan	Although my new iGo keyboard is speeding things up a bit, even if my lack of experience slows things back down again :)	16:01
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pupnik	i test on the device by mounting (as client) from the device a share on my scratchbox pc	16:01
pupnik	or by scp'ing the files to the device	16:01
pupnik	whatever file transfer works is ok of course	16:01
hullfandan	are there any documents or tutorials on maemo.org about the different ways to test on devices?	16:02
hullfandan	that mounting option sounds good but I would rather go through a tutorial on setting that or other ways up instead of bothering you nice people :)	16:02
hullfandan	All I could find was tutorial on creating debian packages which didn't work and seemed overkill for evaluating the simple stuff I was coding	16:03
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aquatix	scp works over ssh	16:05
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hullfandan	ok, thanks. I think a tutorial showing beginers like myself how to do this would be really useful. Lots of stuff on how to get started coding but unless you want to make a package nothing on getting it onto the device and running it. Peopl on here have been great but a tutorial would make sense. Maybe I will write one when I actually understand what I am doing ;)	16:07
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aquatix	basically you type something like "scp -p <sourcefile> <destination"; depending on if you do this on your tablet or your pc this may look like: "scp -p yourpc_username@192.168.0.4:/path/to/file ./"	16:11
aquatix	hullfandan: are you on a *nix or windows machine?	16:11
hullfandan	debian	16:12
aquatix	ok	16:12
aquatix	you have a password for user `user' on your tablet?	16:13
hullfandan	yes	16:13
aquatix	ok	16:13
aquatix	then you can do something from your debian machine like this:	16:13
aquatix	scp -p yourfile user@ip-of-your-tablet:/path/to/destination	16:13
aquatix	and then it asks for the pw of `user'	16:14
aquatix	you can even use ~/path/in/home after the `:'	16:14
aquatix	the -p is for preserving file attributes, like date/time btw	16:14
aquatix	like the -a in "cp -a file destination"	16:15
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hullfandan	thanks aquatix, just trying that now	16:16
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johnx	0.0...................................................................................0	16:23
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aquatix	johnx: hm, mine seems to be larger	16:25
* aquatix holds his tablet against his monitor		16:25
hullfandan	hmm, just getting a usage error aquatix. I thought it didn't like the -p flag but I tried it without and it still just cmae up with usuage options for scp	16:25
johnx	my bad, something fell on my keyboard O_o	16:26
aquatix	hullfandan: can you paste the line here?	16:26
aquatix	johnx: :)	16:26
hullfandan	scp -p bluevend user@192.168.1.108:/home/user/	16:28
hullfandan	it connects now but i get permisson denied	16:28
hullfandan	and i took the trailing / off as that is wrong i guess	16:28
aquatix	hm	16:29
aquatix	and if you try:	16:29
aquatix	scp -p bluevend user@192.168.1.108:~/	16:29
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aquatix	[shouldn't really make a difference, but worth a try]	16:29
aquatix	does it ask for a password?	16:30
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hullfandan	still permission denied, I double check password now.I am sure I just checked it when mesing around with gainroot though	16:30
johnx	try without -p	16:31
aquatix	root pw != user pw	16:32
aquatix	you could try root@192. ...	16:33
aquatix	with that password	16:33
aquatix	if you have remote ssh enabled for root	16:33
hullfandan	i tried without -p and still permisson denied. I also just reset user password using passwd	16:33
hullfandan	YAY	16:33
hullfandan	worked as root	16:34
hullfandan	thank you very much	16:34
aquatix	:)	16:34
aquatix	you're welcome	16:34
hullfandan	Got there in the end thank you for your patience	16:34
jott	hullfandan: you don't need ~/ or /home/user btw... the ":" translates to ~ - so just using "scp file user@ip:" should suffice	16:35
jott	still you should be able to copy files as user to your user home dir ..	16:35
aquatix	jott: yeah, but you need to use the right password :)	16:36
aquatix	and i guess that hullfandan was using root's pw	16:36
jott	or just a ssh key ;)	16:36
aquatix	true :)	16:36
* jott is too lazy to type passwords :)		16:36
aquatix	but didn't want to bother hullfandan with that ;)	16:36
hullfandan	thanks, my brain already hurts :)	16:37
blafasel	jott: The key has no passphrase?	16:37
aquatix	blafasel: maybe he uses ssh-agent	16:37
aquatix	then he only has to type the pw once	16:38
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aquatix	need to implement that once	16:38
blafasel	Yeah, but still. ;)	16:38
blafasel	Implement? It's fairly easy ;)	16:38
aquatix	yeah, but i'm lazy	16:38
aquatix	and busy	16:38
* aquatix wonders what he's doing here		16:38
blafasel	You save keystrokes and time afterwards, so both are satisfied	16:38
aquatix	need to finish a paper and presentation in 2.5h	16:39
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aquatix	blafasel: true	16:39
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* aquatix thinks /. forgot the date		16:41
aquatix	i miss my ponies	16:41
henrique	hi, is the "gpsbt" api the only alternative to communicate with the gps?	16:41
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Jaffa	aquatix: about time - last few years Slashdot's been useless from about 200x-03-31T16:00:00Z to 200x-04-02T10:00Z :-(	17:02
Jaffa	Any interesting news from CTIA yet?	17:03
aquatix	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/01/npenguin101.xml	17:04
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Jaffa	aquatix: also shown on the BBC News this morning. Saw it, thought "that looks a bit computer generated" and then remembered the date	17:05
tank-man	is the flasher util for the n810 the same as the n800?	17:05
aquatix	Jaffa: ah :)	17:05
Jaffa	tank-man: yes	17:05
johnx	yup, 'cause the guts of the N800 are the same as the N810	17:05
aquatix	pics look quite ok though :)	17:05
Jaffa	The start of it looked really good when they're trying to take off	17:05
Jaffa	As April Fools go, it's the best I've seen this year (if a little obvious)	17:06
aquatix	http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2008/04/01/acid-3-opera-first-to-106	17:07
mourad	I want to install maemo-mapper on my computer but I need the package "libgpsmgr-dev". Do anybody can give me some hints ?	17:08
Jaffa	JFGI? ;-)	17:08
johnx	maybe try and build it without libgpsmgr support?	17:09
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mourad	i tryed to install it but without result	17:13
johnx	tried to install it on your desktop? isn't it nokia closed source, arm-only?	17:13
johnx	libgpsmgr I mean...	17:14
mourad	yes I tried on my desktop not on the NOKIA810	17:15
mourad	johnx: with scratchbox and maemo chinook 4.	17:16
johnx	aaaah...ok, I see	17:17
johnx	Are you trying to get this running on your desktop to test it for the tablet or do you just want to use it?	17:19
mourad	johnx: I downloaded the package from this link https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3550/maemo-mapper_2.4.1.tar.gz	17:19
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Italodance	guys	17:23
Italodance	http://iceland.intracore.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/screenshot01.png	17:23
Italodance	how can i get this contacts icon?	17:23
mourad	johnx: no just to test it before using it on the n810	17:24
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jott	Italodance: it's called personal menu - https://garage.maemo.org/projects/personal-menu/	17:32
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ricko73	good morning...where do I find a missing 'libhildonfm2 (1:1.9.49)	17:39
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aquatix	hm, any idea why i can't choose a weather station in omweather?	17:42
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Jaffa	aquatix: that happened to me; I had to go to weather.com and add it manually	17:47
aquatix	hm, k	17:48
aquatix	but it asks for a zip code	17:49
aquatix	and i try to set a Dutch city	17:49
aquatix	http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/local/NLXX0010?from=search_city <- for example	17:49
aquatix	or shall i set NLXX0010 as zip?	17:49
aquatix	yay	17:50
aquatix	that works	17:50
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glass	heheh nethack.org has an april foolstoo	18:35
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Cptnodegard	fucking nokia	18:41
Cptnodegard	why cant they just disable the damn memory card when mounting with usb instead of complaining its in use when iuts not? -.-	18:41
mgedmin	why do you think it's not?	18:42
Cptnodegard	well the tablet has been sitting there doing nothing for 5 hours so if it really is in use, i'd like to know wtf its doing	18:42
mgedmin	burning your battery by a bug in metalayer-crawler	18:42
mgedmin	or filling up your swap file	18:43
Cptnodegard	planning world domination by means of mmc1 :p	18:43
ac7ss	You could just remove the card and use a reader on the other machine.	18:43
\|\|cw	do you have swap enabled?	18:43
\|\|cw	I just use scp/sshfs	18:43
Cptnodegard	swap? virtual memory?	18:43
mgedmin	sshfs rules	18:44
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\|\|cw	yeah, sometimes it can't disable it for some reason	18:44
mgedmin	(except for not supporting df)	18:44
ac7ss	I prefer rsync.	18:44
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Cptnodegard	i use virtual memory but i got no apps running	18:44
Cptnodegard	a reboot fixed it	18:45
\|\|cw	ac7ss: rsync dosn't allow browsing or direct edits	18:45
mgedmin	hm	18:45
ac7ss	true	18:45
Cptnodegard	maemo_world_domination no longer running :p	18:45
mgedmin	that sounds like a bug to me	18:45
mgedmin	the kernel should be able to stop using swap, if there's enough free memory	18:45
\|\|cw	i've had it not be able to several times	18:46
lcdd	it doesn't work like that. the swap has to be disabled	18:46
Cptnodegard	uuh good boy gnumeric managed to open the excel file	18:46
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* mgedmin is worried about the builtin 2gb flash on the n810		18:49
mgedmin	something fishy is going on there	18:50
mgedmin	I created a 1 gb filesystem with mkdosfs over usb there, and now I see it's 1.8 gb	18:50
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mgedmin	did I reformat it in my sleep, or what?	18:50
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GeneralAntilles	Or you didn't actually create the filesystem. :P	18:53
mgedmin	I did	18:58
mgedmin	I was testing the insane bug (fill up the partition with a big file, say goodbye to your partition table)	18:58
mgedmin	my current worst-case guess is there's only 1 GB of flash there, and writes to the second one just get silently redirected down to the first one	18:58
mgedmin	I was not amused to see a blob of HTML that overwrote the MBR	18:59
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derf	mgedmin: The N810 apparently shipped with an invalid partition table on the internal card.	19:04
derf	If that's what you're referring to (the fs in the partition table was larger than the physical card).	19:04
script	wff? only 1GB on internal flash?	19:06
derf	No... it's a 2GB card, but like hdd manufacturers, there's 2GB and there's 2 GB.	19:07
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script	thats ok, i just tought it's only 1GB physically	19:07
derf	Maybe mgedmin is talking about something else... I had to practically fill the entire card to trigger it.	19:07
mgedmin	derf: nope, that happened after I reformatted the too-large-2-gb to just-right-2-gb	19:08
mgedmin	and filled up about half of it	19:09
derf	Well, that is a problem, then.	19:09
derf	I formatted mine as ext3, and all my problems went away.	19:09
mgedmin	then suddenly filesystem readonly; reboot -> filesystem does not exits at all, partition table nuked, FAT nuked	19:09
mgedmin	may be I should do that too	19:09
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derf	(I had _no_ _end_ of problems with FAT and the N800)	19:09
mgedmin	hm	19:09
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mgedmin	my 4gb vfat sd card worked more or less reliably in the n800	19:10
derf	Maemo mapper would bork the kernel driver reliably in about 15 minutes.	19:10
mgedmin	although one 512mb sd card just died in the external slot	19:10
derf	Card itself was totally fine, but nothing short of a full reboot would get it to work again.	19:10
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Cptnodegard	anyone used VNC? or what its called again that app that lets you stream the screen image to a computer	19:19
GeneralAntilles	x11vnc	19:21
GeneralAntilles	http://mike.saunby.googlepages.com/x11vncfornokia7702	19:22
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Cptnodegard	yeah that. has anyone used it and can comment on stability?	19:35
GeneralAntilles	It works fine.	19:36
script	depends on the server .. not every one works at all	19:37
Cptnodegard	just saw that people are making such a fuzz about the new intil MID being and its apparent ability to be able to use wireless displays	19:37
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Navi	eh	19:40
Navi	Ignorance is the greatest hype	19:40
Navi	Take the iPhone for example: ZOMG A TOUCHSCREEN THATS NEW	19:40
Cptnodegard	lol	19:40
Cptnodegard	its multitoouch!	19:41
Cptnodegard	so you can zoom stuff better	19:41
Cptnodegard	ignore the fact there are devices that dont need zooming	19:41
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Navi	I prefer to spend less effort pressing a button once	19:42
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myren	is xomap a driver for xorg or is it a separate x server?	19:56
johnx	separate xserver based on kdrive	19:57
johnx	other kdrive servers: xfbdev xephyr	19:57
* Cptnodegard pets claws email. finally rid of that useless internal shit		19:59
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lcuk2	johnx i forgot to ask since, whats happened with your screen problem - has it been cured or are you living with a disability	20:01
lcuk2	(i ask because someone came in with similar problem last night..)	20:01
johnx	it hasn't been acting up as much	20:01
lcuk2	fair enough then	20:02
johnx	in fact lately, almost not at all	20:02
lcuk2	is it colder ?	20:02
lcuk2	or have you stopped running things which heat it up	20:02
johnx	maybe a little. I hesitate to draw conclusions like that though	20:02
johnx	I haven't been doing much hacking on debian on it	20:02
lcuk2	yer i know what you mean	20:03
sp3000	that's what the internet is for	20:03
johnx	which I think was a major cause of heat	20:03
lcuk2	but we are the internet	20:03
sp3000	hmm	20:03
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sp3000	I think that means that from his perspective we should draw his conclusions harder	20:04
lcuk2	johnx :) either way im glad its become stablish	20:05
johnx	me too O_o	20:05
fysa	do not even start to compare the UI for Maemo with the UI on the iPhone. The iPhone requires less than half the number of taps/touches for everything.	20:05
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elb	on both pixels on its display!	20:05
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lcuk2	and how pray tell do i run vnc from iphone?	20:05
lcuk2	or ssh	20:05
lcuk2	or any number of specific applications	20:05
fysa	that's why this is so frustrating. :)	20:05
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elb	I looked at an iPhone yesterday, as a matter of fact	20:06
fysa	Maemo wins in every aspect except for ease/response.	20:06
johnx	fysa, I know what you mean	20:06
elb	and was, once again, underwhelmed	20:06
elb	but yeah, the interface is slick	20:06
elb	and it sure is shiny!	20:06
elb	(rotating as you turn it, etc.)	20:06
johnx	I have a stack of arm devices here which each have one or two killer features	20:06
elb	although the rotation thing kind of sucks in that it has to be pretty vertical to work	20:07
fysa	I feel trapped in some backwards world.	20:07
konttori	has anyone made any hildon desktop applets?	20:07
konttori	I need to know how I can debug those?	20:07
konttori	As in how to get the command line prints to show somewhere	20:08
sp3000	they get syslogged, right? ...right?	20:12
konttori	so, cat /var/log/syslog .... hmm... I'll have to try that. Thanks!	20:13
konttori	I only need to now get errors again... ;)	20:15
konttori	I'm so close to getting sdl to run as desktop applet	20:16
konttori	I already got pygame to run inside gtk window.	20:16
konttori	so, it's just some tuning now left	20:17
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konttori	there is no syslog in the /var/log. Am I looking at the wrong place?	20:19
johnx	no, no syslogd at all I think on itos	20:20
johnx	ps auxc \| grep syslog	20:20
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sp3000	...by default	20:20
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sp3000	package is in sdk repo	20:23
sp3000	(sysklogd)	20:24
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Italodance	lame_3.97_maemo.tar.gz OHO!	20:39
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Italodance	Irsii	20:45
Italodance	dosen't show any icon in my menu why?	20:45
Italodance	os 2008 maybe it is 2007 yes?	20:45
GeneralAntilles	It's a console application.	20:45
GeneralAntilles	Open xterm	20:46
GeneralAntilles	type 'irsii'	20:46
Italodance	and?	20:46
johnx	and hit enter	20:46
Italodance	ur mean it can works only with x-term yes?	20:46
johnx	yes	20:46
GeneralAntilles	Italodance, you'd really be better off with xchat.	20:46
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Italodance	xchat yes cool :D	20:47
Italodance	GeneralAntilles xmms has icon in menu?	20:47
GeneralAntilles	If you're having trouble getting irsii open, you're not gonna get much further once it's open.	20:48
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derf	It might also help if you spelled it irssi.	20:49
Italodance	GeneralAntilles xmms has icon in menu? or need to open it only with x-term?	20:49
GeneralAntilles	s/irsii/irssi/	20:50
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: If you're having trouble getting irssi open, you're not gonna get much further once it's open.	20:50
GeneralAntilles	I blame smoke inhalation, derf. :P	20:50
* GeneralAntilles 's building caught fire a couple hours ago.		20:50
Italodance	oh	20:51
inz	irsii sounds like ircii ;)	20:51
lcuk2	thats not good, did you get all your nokias to safety?	20:51
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that's what I mixed up with, inz.	20:51
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GeneralAntilles	Just the N800 and the cat. :P	20:51
lcuk2	good plan GeneralAntilles hope it wasnt serious	20:52
GeneralAntilles	It was a couple floors down and on the other side of this building.	20:52
GeneralAntilles	Nah, just a couple apartments were damaged.	20:52
derf	You have a Nokia cat?	20:52
lcuk2	kitchen fire?	20:52
lcuk2	cuecat	20:52
GeneralAntilles	I think the second one was mostly smoke.	20:52
lcuk2	or was it acecat	20:52
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lcuk2	:D lolcat	20:52
GeneralAntilles	Dunno what started it.	20:52
GeneralAntilles	The firedepartment evidently has a really awesome system for clearing smoke out, though.	20:53
GeneralAntilles	Open the window, put a giant fan in the doorway.	20:53
GeneralAntilles	Flies out of there at a million miles an hour.	20:53
lcuk2	probably the glint from steve jobs field of awesome caught on some lesser piece of kit	20:53
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GeneralAntilles	The RFD repeater I keep in the closet went crazy and tried to kill all the Windows machines. :P	20:54
lcuk2	its student digs isnt it?	20:54
GeneralAntilles	Sorta	20:54
lcuk2	that same contraption is used to blow the pot at the frat boys dorm	20:54
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GeneralAntilles	Cat: http://www.legacyoflies.com/foolsofapril/devuploads/general_antilles/cat1.jpg	20:55
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lcuk2	holy moly! that looks like my former cat	20:55
lcuk2	got any eyes open shots	20:56
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GeneralAntilles	http://www.legacyoflies.com/foolsofapril/devuploads/general_antilles/cat2.jpg	20:56
GeneralAntilles	Little better. :P	20:56
GeneralAntilles	Don't think I have anything else handy.	20:56
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lcuk2	enough to tell the difference yer	20:58
lcuk2	i was just digging through my photos, unfortunately he passed a couple of years ago so theres a lot to dig through	20:58
GeneralAntilles	She's 11 now.	20:59
GeneralAntilles	Haven't lost a pet in a while, thankfully.	20:59
lcuk2	only things we lost recently are hamsters - when squeek passed we got a couple of young cats from the sanctury :)	21:00
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GeneralAntilles	http://www.google.com/virgle/application.html	21:00
lcuk2	one is a long haired black and his gay best mate :) missus wanted kittens but i was heartbroken and didnt wanna leave em there	21:00
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GeneralAntilles	It's announced.	21:11
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: "it" being Virgle or something Maemo related?	21:15
GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=163447#post163447	21:15
GeneralAntilles	Q2 2008	21:16
GeneralAntilles	Hopefully that doesn't mean June. :\	21:16
Jaffa	Why isn't ITT news on pmo anymore?	21:16
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Jaffa	Gatestone: you know Nokia - they always push deadlines to the latest possible	21:16
Jaffa	Bah. Bad BitchX	21:16
Jaffa	s/Gatestone/GeneralAntilles/	21:16
GeneralAntilles	Ha	21:16
GeneralAntilles	I was wondering.	21:16
inz	Jaffa, guess why I don't use tab completion ;)	21:16
GeneralAntilles	I didn't think I had more than one person in here on my ignore list. :P	21:17
Jaffa	inz: I didn't - it was ':' completion, irritatingly.	21:17
inz	Jaffa, ah, indeed, now I remember what BiaatchX did	21:17
inz	Jaffa, I used it some time, but only for the ascii artz	21:17
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zedstar_	so is wimax available in europe any where yet?	21:20
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Jaffa	zedstar_: UK best bet is http://www.solution4.com/ which has trials in some places	21:20
zedstar_	thanks jaffa that site appears down right now	21:21
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* GeneralAntilles wants to know what the connection dialog looks like for WiMAX		21:23
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Jaffa	http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_wme_en_R1.html confirms update brings "seamless software update"	21:24
GeneralAntilles	3 hours on WiMAX. :<	21:25
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MangoFusion	"3 hours on WiMAX"	21:26
GeneralAntilles	Be nice if the SSU also means they can push updates to things like MicroB more than once every 6 months.	21:26
MangoFusion	hey, i might as well just use my phone	21:26
GeneralAntilles	That's about the same use time I get out of my handset with 3g.	21:26
zedstar_	how easy/expensive is it for joe public to install there own wimax base station/router? the kit expensive or require licenses?	21:26
blafasel	GeneralAntilles: Nice question, regarding the connection dialog	21:27
blafasel	The current dialog probably doesn't scale for 2-3 miles of range. ;-p	21:27
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GeneralAntilles	Wonder what the icon looks like, too.	21:27
GeneralAntilles	Hrm	21:28
GeneralAntilles	Are they gonna have international versions?	21:28
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GeneralAntilles	"N810 WiMAX Edition is only available in the US"	21:28
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Cptnodegard	wimax is dooomed	21:29
megabyte405	seamless software update is presumably Diablo	21:30
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GeneralAntilles	lol? http://www.nokia.com/A4138056	21:30
megabyte405	it's been a roadmap feature since the days of Bora	21:30
GeneralAntilles	Yes, we know it's Diablo.	21:30
blafasel	What's with that link? Dead for me	21:31
megabyte405	wow, diablo "in the second quarter of the year"? I might jump right from bora to diablo on my n800...	21:31
GeneralAntilles	Weird	21:32
GeneralAntilles	Nokia's being stupid and dynamic or something	21:32
blafasel	Talking about the link?	21:32
GeneralAntilles	blafasel, check out their press photos for the N810WE	21:32
Jaffa	megabyte405: yes - it's been on the roadmap, but there's no guarantee they'd've delivered it	21:33
GeneralAntilles	There's a giant lump on the back of it like the N800. :P	21:33
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KotCzarny	don't forget today is april 1st	21:33
* KotCzarny yawns		21:33
KotCzarny	wait with analysis till tomorrow	21:33
KotCzarny	:)	21:33
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KaaLi	its just rude to play ppl like that	21:36
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, don't play ppl!	21:37
KaaLi	*with :D	21:38
cymacs	does anybody know how to convert gps data saved with gps_saver to gpx or anything else?	21:40
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tsukasa	OMG N900 announced	21:41
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GeneralAntilles	Clever, tsukasa.	21:42
tsukasa	hey theres 288 people here	21:42
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tsukasa	mightve gotten one or two for a second	21:42
ralann	riiiight	21:42
tsukasa	youd be suprised how many people are oblivious to the date	21:43
ralann	true	21:43
elb	you'd be surprised how many people see 'OMG' and dismiss the remainder of what a person says	21:43
ralann	i will believe nothing till tomorrow	21:43
ralann	OMG a nokia brain implant	21:44
megabyte405	using bluetooth 3.0!	21:44
ralann	http://www.nokiausa.com/brains	21:44
tsukasa	ralann, what if you use gmail to send yourself an important message back in time warning you of your impending doom?	21:44
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doc\|work	s/impending doom/this conversation	21:46
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aquatix	http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/01/nokias-n810-internet-tablet-wimax-edition-gets-official/ already posted here?	21:47
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KotCzarny	april first	21:47
KotCzarny	wait till tomorrow	21:47
KotCzarny	:)	21:47
aquatix	KotCzarny: guy i know from nokia says this one is official :)	21:47
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KotCzarny	april 1st	21:48
aquatix	KotCzarny: also look at the pictures	21:48
KotCzarny	;)	21:48
aquatix	heheh	21:48
* aquatix is not that stupid ;)		21:48
ralann	i say tomorrow	21:48
GeneralAntilles	It's real, duh. :\	21:48
lcdd	"do not show this dialog again." i could use a few of those	21:49
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aquatix	lcdd: yeah	21:49
doc\|work	I fucking hate april 1st	21:49
doc\|work	real news is bad enough without an official day of fake news	21:50
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ralann	im hiding in my house all day and am not turning the tv on	21:50
KaaLi	http://www.virginmedia.com/money/features/us-to-scrap-dollar-and-join-euro.php?vmsrc=vmhpld	21:51
KotCzarny	doh	21:51
doc\|work	this is as far as I'm delving into the internet today	21:51
KotCzarny	stop posting aplil fools links	21:51
KotCzarny	:)	21:51
doc\|work	KaaLi: hey man, give it time, that one may come true yet	21:51
KaaLi	if it goes down as it has been goin lately.. some day it might happen..	21:52
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doc\|work	nah, if anything they're trying to push the US into some north american currency	21:52
KotCzarny	yeah	21:52
KotCzarny	nwo	21:52
KotCzarny	etc.	21:52
doc\|work	indeed	21:52
KaaLi	10 USD = 1 euro in 2010	21:52
doc\|work	i.e. more of the same, only you have even less chance of being influential	21:52
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doc\|work	now I know why I hate april 1st, it makes every site on the internet read like a bad copy of the onion	21:54
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KotCzarny	there are layers, all the way to the bottom	21:56
KotCzarny	;)	21:56
pupnik	turtles	21:56
KotCzarny	layers	21:56
KotCzarny	turtles have layers	21:56
KotCzarny	onion has layers	21:56
KotCzarny	turtles have layers	21:57
* doc\|work read that as lawyers		21:57
pupnik	turtles h	21:57
MangoFusion	some of the more annoying april fools jokes are ones where the fooler starts the fooling before april 1st	21:57
pupnik	me too	21:57
doc\|work	was thinking, why the fuck would turtles need lawyers	21:57
KotCzarny	hehe	21:57
KaaLi	depends about timezone	21:58
aquatix	doc\|work: heh, me too :)	21:58
MangoFusion	KaaLi: this is days before	21:58
ricko73	where do I find a missing libhildonfm2 (1:1.9.49)	21:59
aquatix	google? :)	22:00
ricko73	google didn't help much	22:00
ricko73	there were very few links to libhildonfm2 that were specific to the nokia n-series	22:00
megabyte405	ricko73: make sure you are using the right version of the sdk	22:00
megabyte405	you may be compiling chinook software on bora	22:01
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ricko73	megabyte405: I have an as received n810	22:01
KotCzarny	apt-cache search hildonfm	22:01
megabyte405	oh, I see, you are installing	22:01
megabyte405	First, upgrade your firmware (reflash - it will erase everything) before you get further	22:02
ricko73	I'll have to ask the package maintainer (for roadmap --a gps/mapping program) how he had it compiled	22:02
ricko73	I think I have the latest version	22:02
megabyte405	you'll need software with a OS2008 version	22:02
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megabyte405	If you just got it from the factory you probably don't	22:02
ricko73	1.2007.42-19	22:03
ricko73	I thought that was the latest	22:03
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GeneralAntilles	51-3 is latest.	22:03
ricko73	Ok. Thanks. I guess I'll have to reflash (then redownload the apps I installed)	22:04
* aquatix wonders when Diablo will be available for download		22:04
aquatix	Q2 has already begun :)	22:04
KotCzarny	it will be when it will be	22:04
KaaLi	backup first	22:04
aquatix	KotCzarny: true	22:04
ricko73	KaaLi: thx	22:04
aquatix	just wondering :)	22:05
KotCzarny	</phb>	22:05
KotCzarny	:)	22:05
KotCzarny	better port/write new software	22:05
KotCzarny	;)	22:05
KotCzarny	than simply consuming new shinyness	22:05
GeneralAntilles	Judging by the state of Modest, it's probably going to be a little while longer.	22:05
aquatix	i will	22:06
aquatix	when i'm done being so freaking busy	22:06
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aquatix	GeneralAntilles: that's ok, i prefer having a polished flash	22:06
aquatix	hopefully with an updated gecko	22:06
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/N810WiMAX5_Lowres.jpg shows the bump	22:08
Jaffa	And http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/N810WiMAX4_lowres.jpg has the connection dialogue (and Xohm logo in the status bar)	22:09
KotCzarny	looks shopped	22:09
KotCzarny	;)	22:09
Jaffa	KotCzarny: it's getting a little tiring now; this is official, OK? :)	22:09
Daviey	Has anyone worked out how to use .install files from the console?	22:09
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Jaffa	Daviey: some form of DBus invocation's your best bet, I reckon	22:09
KotCzarny	jaffa: just kidding, but i will seriously wait for tomorrow	22:09
KotCzarny	:)	22:10
ricko73	yeah, I'm nervous installing anything today	22:10
konttori	Ah. hey, we've launched the wimax apparently	22:10
konttori	cool!	22:10
Daviey	Jaffa: seriously?!	22:10
aquatix	http://www.virginmedia.com/money/features/us-to-scrap-dollar-and-join-euro.php?vmsrc=vmhpld	22:10
aquatix	woops	22:10
Jaffa	KotCzarny: OK, but everytime someone mentions it, can you not type two lines: one containing an 2008-04-01 reference and the other a smiley? Please?	22:11
konttori	Jaffa: Yeah, seamless updates is really nice feature	22:11
KotCzarny	:)	22:11
aquatix	Jaffa: /ignore? ;)	22:11
Jaffa	konttori: very cool; now, can we have a diablo beta? :)	22:11
konttori	We've been working really hard to gt it just right	22:11
Jaffa	aquatix: a little harsh, perhaps	22:11
aquatix	Jaffa: nah ;)	22:11
* aquatix ducks while KotCzarny throws an old 770 with sharpened edges to his head		22:12
konttori	Jaffa: Interesting question.	22:12
KotCzarny	erm	22:12
KotCzarny	no 770s here	22:12
Jaffa	konttori: glad to hear it. Does it mean we're likely to see more updates to the components, or are upgrades still going to be one or two times a year affairs?	22:12
KotCzarny	and i like my 800 too much	22:12
KotCzarny	but i can throw an old ipod	22:12
KotCzarny	(heavy)	22:12
KotCzarny	;)	22:12
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doc\|work	anyone got info on changes to OS?	22:13
konttori	Can't confirm, but at least I can say that it should be easier for the end users to receive incremental updates.	22:13
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GeneralAntilles	/ignore works nicely.	22:13
lcuk2	yes, nokia are proud to announce they are working with microsoft to release Windows Vista N series edition ;)	22:13
konttori	With flashing, it's not nice to flash a small patch and have to reinstall everything	22:13
konttori	So, at least SSU is enabler for that	22:14
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I really hope so.	22:14
konttori	Also, SSU also allows 3rd party (that's you guys) application updates	22:14
Jaffa	konttori: cool, hopefully the project planners will take advantage of the "release early, release often" approach and not still fall back on big-bang releases.	22:14
aquatix	doc\|work: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17727 has some stuff	22:14
aquatix	meh, stupid lag	22:14
GeneralAntilles	It'd be awfully stupid of them not to leverage this for more smaller releases.	22:14
Jaffa	konttori: aren't we supposed to have that already with App Manager?	22:14
Jaffa	konttori: or does SSU totally replace App Mgr?	22:15
GeneralAntilles	Who knows, though, the UI spec probably has something in there about only updating once every 6 months. <_<	22:15
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: :)	22:15
lcuk2	konttori, is this update process in response to things which could be easily patched but which full flash hassle prevents? if so - what fixes have you got lined up?	22:15
konttori	Well, now end users will actually get notified directly of new updates to 3rd party apps as well	22:15
KaaLi	ill believe that tomorrow.. :P	22:15
doc\|work	aquatix: thanks	22:15
konttori	lcuk2: indeed. No idea what we might patch/fix/whatnot though	22:16
GeneralAntilles	I'd _really_ like to see MicroB back on the update-every-few-weeks schedule.	22:16
lcuk2	excellent :)	22:16
GeneralAntilles	Especially with how fast Gecko is moving.	22:16
Jaffa	konttori: sounds interesting. Now, the two things which depress me: a) I'm sure the maemo community could've had some good contributions to make to the UI and spec of SSU; b) we're not going to get to see it/play with it before end-users do. So the power-users who help users on ITT etc. will not be ahead of the game.	22:16
doc\|work	also, is the price of the wimax more than the n810 or is a drop in the vanilla n810 price expected?	22:17
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: yeah	22:17
* Jaffa doubts anyone but sales & marketing could answer that		22:17
doc\|work	ok, thought someone might have seen an answer somewhere	22:17
GeneralAntilles	N810 already had a small drop to $439	22:18
konttori	Hehey!!! Check it out: http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=workshop,recent	22:18
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konttori	I got interviewed yesterday.	22:18
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	22:18
konttori	And it's live now.	22:18
konttori	Ahh.. the correct link: http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=workshop,articles,414	22:18
konttori	That was a crash interview: I got notified 5 minutes prior. Then I called new york, talked for an hour on the phone and blam. That's what you see.	22:19
ricko73	GeneralAntilles: I bought my n810 from Amazon for under $400	22:19
GeneralAntilles	ricko73, that's MSRP	22:20
ricko73	gotcha	22:20
GeneralAntilles	Street has little to do with MSRP. :P	22:20
konttori	Jaffa: SSU is really so simple piece UI wise that there was no need to notify anyone.	22:20
ralann	i got mine for $365	22:20
KaaLi	it stil says april 1st..	22:20
Jaffa	konttori: fair enough	22:20
ricko73	understood. didn't realize that MSRP actually changed after a device was initially released	22:20
Jaffa	konttori: so there'll be no bugs or wishes that the UI did such & such? :)	22:20
konttori	Nope. It's just perfect ! ;)	22:21
KaaLi	no1 will remember n810wimax next week... :D	22:21
Jaffa	konttori: all bugs straight assigned to you then ;-)	22:21
konttori	Please, go ahead.	22:21
* lcuk2 also writes "perfect" software. strange how theres always something missed ;)		22:21
KotCzarny	lcuk: rotate	22:22
KotCzarny	;)	22:22
lcuk2	THANK YOU :D	22:22
* Jaffa had a "perfect" Java web framework componentisation earlier today. This evening additional unit tests are failing :-/		22:22
konttori	rotation won't make it. Sorry.	22:22
lcuk2	it will in my kernel tonight :)	22:22
lcuk2	ive been writing a fullscreen fullspeed tear free renderer thing and i wanna see things from a different perspective	22:23
Jaffa	konttori: your interview references "Web Runtime" - wassat?	22:23
KotCzarny	hehe	22:23
KotCzarny	pixel perfect?	22:23
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lcuk2	better than it was, im just finishing picking up freetype and getting the aspect ratio better	22:24
glass	Jaffa: widgets for s60	22:24
glass	Jaffa: web pages that look like programs	22:24
KotCzarny	don't forget about subpixel order	22:24
KotCzarny	unless you don't use subpixel rendering?	22:24
glass	Jaffa: basically you make a zip, send it over, it installs the page as an app to the app browser...	22:24
lcuk2	im in yuv so its not that important	22:24
KotCzarny	hmm	22:24
KotCzarny	probably	22:25
glass	Jaffa: and launches it without the browser full gui	22:25
Jaffa	glass: "Q: What can people expect from the latest N810? A: [...] Especially now that we have great Python bindings and the support for Web Run-Time, the community should find it very easy to create the same kind of applications that Apple is doing on their dashboard.@	22:25
Jaffa	So not just for S60 anymore. Will have to look into a bit more	22:25
lcuk2	well which order should i put my pixels, grey, grey, grey or grey, grey, grey ???	22:25
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glass	Jaffa: i guess they've got it over there too then, like said, just web pages that look more like proper programs	22:25
Jaffa	lcuk2: no - grey, grey, grey	22:25
KotCzarny	no, grey gray grey grey	22:25
glass	Jaffa: new n95 firmware has it	22:25
konttori	well, web runtime applets are now at your disposal for the desktop	22:25
KotCzarny	alpha gray	22:26
Jaffa	glass: interesting. Hopefully ones working for S60 (for which I assume there's an existing community) should work without modification on ITOS	22:26
glass	Jaffa: i'd assume many of the s60 widgets to assume the screen sizes to be small	22:26
Jaffa	konttori: cool. Is the responsiveness of the desktop and general usability of the home screen OK?	22:26
lcuk2	konttori :) hope the rollout goes smoothly. ill b back later	22:26
konttori	They run on gecko engine, so you probably can run pretty much anything with them	22:26
glass	Jaffa: dunno about the community yet as it's not really on too many devices	22:27
GeneralAntilles	Woo	22:27
GeneralAntilles	"Update All"	22:27
konttori	Jaffa: Well, it's doing quite fancy 'server rendering' of the widgets	22:27
glass	Jaffa: i was rather surprised they ported it back to n95, the nokias browser guy didn't promise that last june	22:27
Jaffa	Ah, fair enough. New then. Still, leveraging the larger sales and communities (and hype) of the N95 et al should help us as users	22:27
KotCzarny	ok, bbl	22:27
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: indeed, two little words with so much joy	22:27
glass	Jaffa: yeah, i'd imagine it will be used for weather applets and the like.. small information displayers	22:28
GeneralAntilles	Hopefully it's stopped crashing after every 3rd install. <_<	22:28
konttori	Anyway, as I said in the interview, the python desktop applet bindings are really cool as well. I totally recommend checking them out even now.	22:28
glass	Jaffa: it's a very easy way for web devs to get something 'cool' running on a phone easily so i'd expect the community to grow rapidly soon	22:28
GeneralAntilles	Nice interview, konttori.	22:29
konttori	thanks.	22:29
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konttori	GA: what was crashing every 3rd install?	22:30
GeneralAntilles	Application manager	22:30
GeneralAntilles	It's not that regular	22:30
konttori	It was crashing every 3rd? Odd. Anyway, it's stable now.	22:30
GeneralAntilles	But it was a pain when I was trying to restore everything after a flash about a month ago.	22:31
Jaffa	konttori: yeah, it was a good interview.	22:32
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konttori	Let's see how well the device sells. I honestly have no idea how big the market will be for XOHM network, what's the price point of the device or anything like that.	22:34
GeneralAntilles	Seems there's no mention of non-US models yet. :\	22:35
GeneralAntilles	That could put a dampener on things.	22:35
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konttori	I hope it will sell well though. I would say that the keyboard has better feel than n810	22:35
konttori	GA: That will depend on how well wimax networks are sold elsewhere.	22:35
freki	hello every body	22:36
konttori	Currently Sprint is really on top of the wimax game	22:36
GeneralAntilles	Canada has very strong coverage with Rogers.	22:36
konttori	the special part about the n810 WE and the sprint network is that it allows you to 'switch' cells on the fly like GSM phone switches them while yo are on the move.	22:36
freki	i have a probleme for update my 770 tu OS2006, does somebody can help me ?	22:36
Jaffa	AIUI, Canada's got the best WiMAX coverage in the world	22:36
konttori	Well, go ahead and call your nearest Rogers to stock them up!	22:37
Jaffa	konttori: so, hectic time until 31st June getting it ready for release and then rolling out to depots. Then you moving on to the N900?	22:37
elb	I'd be shocked if 15% of Canada was covered	22:38
GeneralAntilles	Hehehe, Jaffa.	22:38
elb	I guess it depends on how you define 'best'	22:38
konttori	Jaffa: if you only knew...	22:38
konttori	But yeah, it's hectic at the moment	22:38
* GeneralAntilles wants OMAP3		22:38
* GeneralAntilles wants OMAP3 baaaad		22:38
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: it was worth a try ;-)	22:38
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* aquatix just wants peace in has damn head		22:39
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GeneralAntilles	I still say we should get a retirement fund started for Texrat.	22:39
Jaffa	aquatix: the sound of drums again?	22:39
aquatix	Jaffa: the sound of deadlines zipping by at light speed	22:39
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konttori	Jaffa: Did it say somewhere that the device is out on 31st of june?	22:48
Jaffa	2Q2008. I'm trying to be realistic/pessimistic/cynical.	22:48
* konttori actually doesn't know that date.. We've been more concerned on the dates the firmware has to go to the factory lines.		22:48
KaaLi	first of all.. is it ever out.. still april 1st.. :D	22:49
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* Jaffa doesn't remember a time when Nokia haven't used all the time available to them when giving a deadline like that		22:49
Jaffa	KaaLi: it's official. If I hear any more "it's an April Fools' joke" comments, I swear I'm going to scream :)	22:49
konttori	Jaffa: Also, Diablo doesn't have the 'same' WRT support as n95, as we have gecko, symbian has webkit.	22:49
KaaLi	jaffa: like a little girl..?	22:50
konttori	Of course the result should be the same.	22:50
ralann	i would believe it till tomorrow	22:50
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Jaffa	konttori: yeah, I'll believe that when I see it. Advanced widgetry compatible across render engines?	22:51
glass	konttori: i havent been following, did they add nokia spesific apis for wrt?	22:51
Jaffa	KaaLi: No, like someone trying to discuss something seriously whilst also trying to meet work deadlines	22:51
konttori	glass: I haven't been involved directly on the WRT part, so can't comment on the specifics.	22:53
Jaffa	KaaLi: sorry, it's just it's not a new joke :)	22:53
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, how much you wanna bet it wont be out until late July? :P	22:53
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GeneralAntilles	Or maybe Diablo [i]is[/i] OS2009 and it's coming out in November. :D	22:53
GeneralAntilles	O_o	22:54
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GeneralAntilles	BBCode	22:54
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GeneralAntilles	. . . proof positive that I've been spending too much time on ITT.	22:54
pupnik	the diablo thread was pretty funny	22:56
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Jaffa	I think your prolific posting rate is sign of that!	22:56
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GeneralAntilles	That post by robin in the "I don't understand" thread made me laugh.	23:00
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KotCzarny	hmm	23:17
KotCzarny	i think jott's xomap patch still breakes xv	23:18
KotCzarny	breakes	23:18
KotCzarny	brakes	23:18
KotCzarny	darmn	23:18
KotCzarny	damn.	23:18
MangoFusion	updated your kernel?	23:19
* lcuk2 . o O ( maybe i won't install rotate after all )		23:20
KotCzarny	no, it rotates ok	23:20
KotCzarny	lcuk, but it may be only my n800	23:20
KotCzarny	i would like you to test it	23:20
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KotCzarny	so i won't run in circles	23:20
lcuk2	by the way, i have dpi free scaling of fonts now :) i dropped sdl_ttf :)	23:20
KotCzarny	hehe	23:20
GeneralAntilles	Now with less suck!	23:20
KotCzarny	mango: problem i have with kernel	23:21
KotCzarny	erm. with mplayer	23:21
lcuk2	at the 225dpi this device is at a 16 point font is massive :)	23:21
KotCzarny	and it's too hot to think	23:21
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lcuk2	GeneralAntilles, it never sucked anyway - i discovered why you didnt get full speed and added a later -turbo option and stuff	23:21
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lcuk2	i wonder if we can mirror	23:22
lcuk2	not just rotate	23:22
KotCzarny	probably	23:22
KotCzarny	xrandr should do rotation and mirroring	23:22
lcuk2	xrandrandm	23:23
KotCzarny	i can't test right now because i have tried reflashing original kernel	23:23
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GeneralAntilles	-turbo sets 400MHz all the time?	23:24
lcuk2	im glad i took out the sdl_ttf ref :) its another less thing to worry about having installed	23:24
lcuk2	no, turbo adjusts the omdemand threshhold for the run of the program	23:24
GeneralAntilles	Ah	23:24
lcuk2	its doing so little and optimised so well that its under the default 80% that its set to	23:24
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Jaffa	lcuk2: what are you actually full screen rendering?	23:24
GeneralAntilles	Right, I remember	23:24
lcuk2	just test	23:25
lcuk2	text	23:25
lcuk2	and lines and dots and maybe circles when i put the code in	23:25
lcuk2	and pictures when i get a yuv jpeg loader ;)	23:25
Jaffa	ah, so proof-of-concept type stuff	23:25
lcuk2	yer im just playing - i want fullscreen tear free screen updates	23:25
lcuk2	(for a book reader)	23:26
lcuk2	oh kot, i also dug out my pdf parser	23:26
KotCzarny	:)	23:26
KotCzarny	why not using poppler?	23:26
KotCzarny	unless you want only text from pdfs	23:26
lcuk2	wanna see how full pdf pages look at tearfree :)	23:26
KotCzarny	hehe	23:27
lcuk2	ive wrote loads of tiny mods to play with different aspects of it - like the starfield	23:27
lcuk2	and the book test	23:27
lcuk2	and a little drawing proggy	23:27
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Jaffa	lcuk2: cool	23:28
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lcuk2	it certainly is, i just need to learn enough about licensing and repos and blogs and all that jibe so i can get them tested and see what we can do with them (if anything)	23:29
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lcuk2	web and or server space isnt that expensive nowadays is it?	23:30
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lcuk2	or am i best of sticking to googlepages or blogger or something	23:30
KotCzarny	depends how reliable you need it to be	23:31
KotCzarny	:)	23:31
Jaffa	garage project?	23:32
jott	lcuk2: using some ready service will probably shorten the time until we see your code :P	23:32
KotCzarny	jott: i believe xomap randr patch is buggy..	23:32
jott	when/where?	23:32
GeneralAntilles	lcuk2, remember, release early, release often. ;)	23:32
KotCzarny	i can't play videos using nokia770 or xv drivers	23:32
KotCzarny	with mplayer	23:32
lcuk2	jaffa im not a member.. but membership has bonuses doesnt it	23:32
jott	rotated or not rotated?	23:33
KotCzarny	doesn't matter	23:33
KotCzarny	black screen	23:33
jott	hm i bet you have v1 ;)	23:33
KotCzarny	no	23:33
KotCzarny	i have reinstalled newer package	23:33
Jaffa	lcuk2: indeed, such as increased karma => better chance of discount on next device	23:33
jott	KotCzarny: of kernel	23:33
KotCzarny	kernel too	23:33
lcuk2	jaffa :) i read that, i may just have to joinup then	23:33
lcuk2	the garage has cvs doesnt it	23:34
KotCzarny	but i have tried flashing original kernel (unpatched)	23:34
Jaffa	lcuk2: svn, so even better	23:34
KotCzarny	jott: i have to test it still	23:34
lcuk2	fairy muff	23:34
jott	KotCzarny: please do so	23:34
KotCzarny	how to update to original xomap?	23:34
jott	just dpkg -i xser*deb	23:34
KotCzarny	ahm, so no apt-get type automation?	23:35
KotCzarny	or --force-reinstall ?	23:35
jott	no.. due to osso-software-version borkness	23:35
KotCzarny	heh	23:35
KotCzarny	i should find the deb then	23:35
jott	erm	23:36
KotCzarny	btw. using rotation command on unpatched kernel + patched xomap is fun ;)	23:36
lcuk2	lol @ rollback procedures ;)	23:37
KotCzarny	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/x/xorg-server/	23:37
KotCzarny	hmm	23:37
KotCzarny	this one is ok?	23:37
jott	if there where any debs :)	23:37
KotCzarny	oh	23:37
KotCzarny	silly me	23:37
KotCzarny	:)	23:37
jott	yeah it seems to be missing	23:37
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KotCzarny	hmm	23:41
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KotCzarny	how can i get a server name from which deb would be taken?	23:43
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oob	Nokia Nerds	23:44
KotCzarny	where?	23:44
oob	there! ->	23:45
KotCzarny	black space	23:45
KotCzarny	nothing's there	23:45
oob	i see nerd people and some of them.. ..live here!	23:45
KotCzarny	i see nothing	23:45
KotCzarny	maybe i'm not nerdish enough	23:46
KotCzarny	:)	23:46
KotCzarny	or too much	23:46
KotCzarny	;)	23:46
celesteh	hey, so if you put gps city guide and maemo mapper togther in a cage fight . . . .	23:46
celesteh	are they complimentary or competing? Which is better?	23:47
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GeneralAntilles	Complementary	23:51
celesteh	ah, i see they share maps	23:51
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celesteh	so does city guide know about POIs ahead of time based or do I need to add them myself?	23:52
celesteh	Like, if I say I'm in London, does it know about the Tate Modern?	23:53
celesteh	ah, i have found the answers to my questions	23:54
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celesteh	this is very cool. nice app!	23:55
KotCzarny	we were glad to help	23:56
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celesteh	i just went to 2008 this evening. there are all kinds of new apps since i last updated anything	23:56
KotCzarny	:)	23:57
KotCzarny	yup	23:57
celesteh	somebody went out and wrote all the toys i wanted!	23:57
KotCzarny	and there will be more	23:57
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celesteh	w00t	23:58
KotCzarny	because it's so simple to create new apps	23:58
KotCzarny	only limit is device speed	23:58
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celesteh	gpscamera also seems cool. what i really want is something that will read a gps track, look at the time on the photo and figure out where it must have been taken	23:59

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