| *** giskard has quit IRC | 00:00 | |
| *** Crfrodf has joined #maemo | 00:05 | |
| *** tko_ has joined #maemo | 00:10 | |
| pupnik | d U C k s T A b | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| *** tko has quit IRC | 00:10 | |
| *** guardian_ has quit IRC | 00:11 | |
| KotCzarny | stupid xomap. | 00:13 |
| KotCzarny | probably not supporting xfs. | 00:14 |
| lcuk | cripes, jake just nearly went crazy eddie in here | 00:18 |
| *** eichi has joined #maemo | 00:18 | |
| *** fab has quit IRC | 00:18 | |
| *** Crfrod has quit IRC | 00:19 | |
| KotCzarny | i hate nokia for crippling software | 00:21 |
| `0660 | ? | 00:22 |
| lcuk | map for one | 00:22 |
| KotCzarny | no support for xset fp+ | 00:22 |
| `0660 | what option is fp+? | 00:22 |
| KotCzarny | font path | 00:22 |
| KotCzarny | be it local or remote | 00:23 |
| `0660 | oh | 00:23 |
| `0660 | and what's the problem with map? | 00:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's teh suck. | 00:24 |
| *** ssvb has quit IRC | 00:25 | |
| `0660 | i don't like it either, but isn't it a third party product like skype? | 00:25 |
| lcuk | yes, but i bought this 810 because it had capable gps mapping abilities | 00:26 |
| `0660 | wasn't there more problems with the gps unit itself? | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not QUITE like Skype | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's not in-house. | 00:26 |
| lcuk | thats the annoying thingyou know, like when you buy a car stereo for music then find out you have to pay extra to use the cd slot | 00:27 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 00:27 |
| KotCzarny | what's the name of xserver package? | 00:27 |
| lcuk | add to that the hoops you have to jump through to get it initialized and i am left with a bad taste in my mouth re certain aspects | 00:27 |
| KotCzarny | xserver-xomap | 00:28 |
| KotCzarny | lcuk: yeah | 00:29 |
| KotCzarny | that's why n800 is superior to n810 | 00:29 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 00:29 |
| *** eichi_ has joined #maemo | 00:29 | |
| KotCzarny | in similiar way n-gage qd is crippled (comparing to n-gage) | 00:29 |
| lcuk | hindsite is a wonderful thing. the most scary part of this is i would not give back this 810 and the 800 doesnt appeal - its got the wrong shape | 00:29 |
| *** eichi_ has quit IRC | 00:29 | |
| lcuk | it was all based on form factor | 00:29 |
| lcuk | inever liked onscreen keyboards and i didnt want to always have to carry extra | 00:30 |
| *** fab has joined #maemo | 00:31 | |
| *** Crfrod has joined #maemo | 00:32 | |
| *** MoRpHeUz has quit IRC | 00:36 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 00:41 | |
| *** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo | 00:42 | |
| *** p| has joined #maemo | 00:44 | |
| *** Crfrodf has quit IRC | 00:46 | |
| *** rkabir_ has joined #maemo | 00:51 | |
| *** pH5 has quit IRC | 00:52 | |
| *** eichi has quit IRC | 00:53 | |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 00:59 | |
| *** rkabir has quit IRC | 01:04 | |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Enabling all the features in Map is trivial by editing one 32-bit word of one file. | 01:14 |
| KotCzarny | hacker! | 01:14 |
| lcuk | hot coffee moment! | 01:14 |
| Jaffa | ...if one *wanted* to do that, of course. *cough* | 01:14 |
| KotCzarny | is that legal? | 01:15 |
| lcuk | i will be examining things with a microscope eventually :) | 01:15 |
| Jaffa | Err. | 01:15 |
| lcuk | i personally dont see why not - its my device | 01:15 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 01:15 |
| Jaffa | Actually, I think in the UK it is. As long as I don't tell you how. | 01:15 |
| lcuk | the illegal part may be sharing how and what with others | 01:15 |
| KotCzarny | yeah.. 'yours' | 01:15 |
| * Jaffa hasn't signed any contract saying he won't edit random files on his device. | 01:15 | |
| milhouse | Could be considered theft of service I suppose | 01:15 |
| lcuk | and its no more illegal than unlocking an iphone | 01:16 |
| KotCzarny | i think there's something about modifying and disassembling | 01:16 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 01:16 |
| lcuk | nahhhhh cant be | 01:16 |
| KotCzarny | in the license | 01:16 |
| lcuk | what license? | 01:16 |
| Jaffa | KotCzarny: what licence? | 01:16 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 01:16 |
| lcuk | i havent read a eula or installed anything | 01:16 |
| lcuk | im just examining the data that came preinstalled with my hardware | 01:16 |
| KotCzarny | does map app have some help? | 01:16 |
| lcuk | it might do, but the barn door will be open then | 01:17 |
| Jaffa | KotCzarny: so what if it does? It was shipped to me, and accepting any EULA isn't required to use it (even if such things were actually legal) | 01:17 |
| KotCzarny | i'm just kidding | 01:17 |
| lcuk | this linux device even tells me that if i want to hack it i can but its not nokias responsability | 01:17 |
| * KotCzarny looks at all mp3s and xvids | 01:17 | |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 01:17 |
| Jaffa | Such debates are healthy, of course :) | 01:17 |
| milhouse | Isn't it the same as taking a time limited version of Vista and unlocking it? Would you argue that is legally permissible? | 01:17 |
| lcuk | thx jaffa :) i was wondering the mechanism - now i will find it if required | 01:18 |
| KotCzarny | 'you can rent this apartment, but don't go into the basement' | 01:18 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 01:18 |
| lcuk | timelocked versions of office come routinely with computers | 01:18 |
| lcuk | ooops your honour, my clock stopped | 01:18 |
| lcuk | silly me | 01:18 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: I'm not saying it's /morally/ acceptable, but I dunno about legally. IANAL. | 01:19 |
| KotCzarny | does eu license apply in us? | 01:19 |
| KotCzarny | and vice versa ? | 01:19 |
| lcuk | us thinks their license works everywhere | 01:19 |
| milhouse | me neither, but I'd say it's definitely a legal grey area with the benefit of the doubt going to the software author IMHO | 01:19 |
| lcuk | eucd is similar to us license | 01:19 |
| KotCzarny | once we have nwo there will be no us/eu | 01:20 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 01:20 |
| milhouse | as to the morals of it, I think it depends on your opinion of the software author :) | 01:20 |
| * Jaffa just went to great lengths to ensure his commercial software products (when he sold one) had a demo version which couldn't be unlocked as it was functionally missing code. Now, that's a lot harder to do when you want to time-limit full functionality, but it could've been a lot harder to bypass (and my ARM disassembly skills are *very* rusty) | 01:20 | |
| KotCzarny | 'one world' fsck it. | 01:20 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 01:20 |
| *** christefano has joined #maemo | 01:20 | |
| Jaffa | milhouse: I'll wait on my conclusion of that when/if Navicore release updated maps - AIUI they haven't been updated since the 770 navigation kit was released. | 01:21 |
| lcuk | im waiting to see what transpires with this next update before i do anything | 01:21 |
| *** jprieur has quit IRC | 01:21 | |
| lcuk | 6 months down the line if the patch is worthwhile and fixes things and improves stuff, then i might just get the 36month license - it includes data updates as well | 01:21 |
| milhouse | Jaffa: I'm morally lax where Microsoft are concerned because of their size and attitude, but smaller software houses or "open source" friendly firms should be protected... if Navicore screws us over and doesn't release updates to their buggy shit then rip their faces off, please. | 01:22 |
| milhouse | :) | 01:22 |
| *** unique311 has joined #maemo | 01:22 | |
| Jaffa | lcuk: that's what they've promised; but I don't believe any have ever been delivered. | 01:22 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: heh | 01:22 |
| lcuk | looking at the older versions of maemo and bitching about things, i think they have made great leaps and bounds (and to the point that '08 feels like a step backwards which i believe they are trying to rectify) | 01:23 |
| Jaffa | Indeed. I have high hopes for Diablo (hopefully next week) | 01:23 |
| lcuk | its not like they have rested on their laurels, they have tried to give us a worthy product | 01:23 |
| milhouse | I want bug fixes first, new functionality can wait | 01:23 |
| lcuk | yes agreed | 01:23 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: indeed | 01:23 |
| milhouse | And a better community process - it sucks so bad that's why I've pretty much lost interest. | 01:24 |
| Jaffa | If 4.1 is 4.0 with just some spit and polish around the rough edges | 01:24 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: it's still very them/us :-( | 01:24 |
| milhouse | Jaffa: We're an inconvenience | 01:24 |
| lcuk | 07 was really nice by all accounts, and had lots of stable packages - i can see that starting with 08 - its been a rough few months because lots have shifted | 01:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's the feeling I get, too. | 01:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it's very disheartening. | 01:24 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 01:25 |
| KotCzarny | where do i set deb_build_options ? | 01:25 |
| *** SDuensin has joined #Maemo | 01:25 | |
| KotCzarny | .profile ? | 01:25 |
| KotCzarny | or it's per package? | 01:25 |
| milhouse | I'll see what the Intel devices are like and probably get involved there if the devices are any good, I expect the community involvement to be leaps and bounds better than what Nokia have achieved | 01:25 |
| lcuk | we have too many chefs trying to make a single pie | 01:25 |
| lcuk | atom | 01:25 |
| lcuk | i hate intel processors though :( | 01:26 |
| milhouse | They're pretty open source friendly | 01:26 |
| milhouse | Which is a plus | 01:26 |
| *** rkabir_ has quit IRC | 01:27 | |
| KotCzarny | export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="vfp" | 01:27 |
| KotCzarny | hah. | 01:27 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: indeed. The fact that qgil's admitted recently "Intel/Ubuntu required $FOO to be opened, so we opened [some part of Hildon]" - whilst simultaneously closing other stuff on Maemo is a little annoying. | 01:27 |
| milhouse | And of course they won't be using hardware under NDA's *cough* 3D *cough* | 01:27 |
| *** t_s_o has quit IRC | 01:27 | |
| Jaffa | The MIDs are going to be practically OSS from one end to the other, and they're putting a *lot* of effort into the apps to customise the UIs to be really finger friendly and not just desktop clones shrunk down. | 01:28 |
| Jaffa | My interest'll just depend on price point, battery life and size of the devices | 01:28 |
| milhouse | Jaffa: +1 | 01:28 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 01:28 |
| milhouse | Though I expect we'll end up disappointed - we'll be calling for Nokia size devices with the Intel community spirit... :) | 01:29 |
| lcuk | there is community spirit here, but a lacking infrastructure to allow growth | 01:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 01:30 |
| *** MangoFusion has quit IRC | 01:30 | |
| milhouse | I'm expecting the Intel kit to be a little bigger/heavier/costlier and slightly more power hungry than Nokias | 01:30 |
| lcuk | look, each of us has enough spirit to make a difference - i have a half bottle of scotch, what do you have? | 01:30 |
| milhouse | the community spirit is lacking on the part of Nokia, not the users | 01:31 |
| milhouse | And without Nokia, we're fcked | 01:31 |
| lcuk | corporate firewall | 01:31 |
| milhouse | Because so much of the software is still closed | 01:31 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: A rather nifty Java web framework on top of struts supporting individual components built together into pages with indepedent lifecycles? | 01:31 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: spot on | 01:31 |
| lcuk | how close are we to having full linux - ive seen things like montevista etc? | 01:32 |
| milhouse | On Nokia or Intel? | 01:32 |
| *** alex-weej has quit IRC | 01:32 | |
| * Jaffa also has a bottle of 70s Royal Navy vodka. Unopened. | 01:32 | |
| lcuk | either | 01:32 |
| milhouse | Suspect it's closer on Intel, as the hardware is fully documented | 01:32 |
| lcuk | i just want a hardware supported distro | 01:32 |
| lcuk | with this form factor | 01:33 |
| milhouse | Can't see that happening with Nokia's while they still have proprietary and undocumented hardware | 01:33 |
| milhouse | :( <---- I'm very sad to see this happen, although I moan about it a lot I'm not happy | 01:33 |
| lcuk | when i had my pocketpc i felt distrant from the metal. with this i have gotten closer to both the device (I can smell the solder) and also closer to linux | 01:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder why Nokia hates us so much. | 01:34 |
| Jaffa | Corporate attitude. | 01:34 |
| milhouse | You can get close, but Nokia still prevent you from going all the way and using the devices to their fullest capabilities | 01:34 |
| lcuk | i can keep my safety net of windows and at the same time look over there and know i have an entire penguin locked up | 01:34 |
| Jaffa | Intel have long been in the "ship stuff so developers use our chips". Nokia, even with Symbian, are in the "we want consumers to buy our devices". | 01:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm really pulling for all the boomers to die off or retire already so people with some sense can change that attitude. | 01:34 |
| lcuk | but it wont change | 01:35 |
| lcuk | when you get close to it you are told not to give away the crown jewels and you dont | 01:35 |
| milhouse | It takes time, and I'm not sure I can wait around for Nokia to get with the programme | 01:35 |
| KotCzarny | what's the difference between ARM1136JF-S and ARM1136J-S ? | 01:36 |
| milhouse | I doubt Intel were open from the start - but they saw the wind of change, realised the benefits and are reaping it now | 01:36 |
| milhouse | One has an F, the other one doesn't | 01:36 |
| lcuk | nor am i - now i am linux powered, i can choose anything running it - i am thinking of this learning experience as the startings of the next 10/20 years of my life. | 01:36 |
| KotCzarny | cool. | 01:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's so stupefyingly frustrating to watch so much talent and spirit go to waste because Nokia can't manage to pull its head out of its own ass. | 01:36 |
| *** juergbi has quit IRC | 01:37 | |
| lcuk | but what should they do? react to every single whine? | 01:37 |
| *** christefano has quit IRC | 01:37 | |
| Jaffa | milhouse: true, my point was Intel's company is based on selling chips to OEMs, which requires developers. Nokia's company is based around selling closed electrical appliances which they support (supposedly) | 01:37 |
| Paavo | You're seeing just one side here. | 01:37 |
| * Jaffa wonders if we'll know why tko et al left - better offer or fed up. | 01:37 | |
| *** unique311 has quit IRC | 01:37 | |
| *** unique311 has joined #maemo | 01:37 | |
| lcuk | they would be out of business. we are one platform within nokia - they have many. i have seen the NIT develop into something great - why would they throw it away | 01:37 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i hope you meant all us lot here :) | 01:38 |
| Jaffa | Paavo: if it's a community effort (whether the NITs, ITOS or even just maemo) there aren't supposed to be any sides ;-) | 01:38 |
| Paavo | Pardon me - I'm mostly involved with the S60 organization - but could you summarize quickly what Nokia has done wrong with Maemo? | 01:38 |
| milhouse | Jaffa: I agree... Intel have realised there is no money in software, but free software sells hardware... but that doesn't mean that Nokia can't sell boat loads of hardware by having a really neat design - just having nice software won't sell the devices, and having closed software doubly so. | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Generally, it's the whole us vs them attitude. | 01:39 |
| milhouse | If Nokia have neat devices, open software, a large community of developers supporting that software then the hardware will sell itself. Again, there is no money in software. | 01:39 |
| Paavo | My background is that I fought internally to get Python for S60 open sourced. | 01:39 |
| *** dneary has quit IRC | 01:39 | |
| lcuk | the winner from all of this is linux | 01:40 |
| Paavo | ...and in the process talked to a fair number of lawyers. | 01:40 |
| lcuk | its getting on LOADS of devices now and its on the lips of everyone. you can buy them in most shops, you can give them to your gran, you can get software for them | 01:40 |
| milhouse | I don't think Nokia keep software closed source because it gives them a competitive advantage - you've seen Media Player, nobody in their right mind would say that gives them a competitive advantage. They keep software closed because the Corporation as a whole is not onboard with the concept of what Maemo are trying to achieve. | 01:41 |
| Tama^2 | lawyers? who said LAWYERS? >.> | 01:41 |
| * Paavo did | 01:41 | |
| Tama^2 | It's a matter of corporate attitude as it was stated before | 01:42 |
| *** tko_ has quit IRC | 01:42 | |
| Tama^2 | and it's not going to change any time soon | 01:42 |
| *** tko has joined #maemo | 01:42 | |
| milhouse | Nokia loses - on to the next company. | 01:42 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: I reckon there are middle managers at Nokia who do think they're GUI apps give them a competitive advantage. At least at the start of the 770 project, they'd've said "OK, you can open source the base, but we'll keep the high-level GUI apps: then it'll be harder for someone to make a clone". Thus missing the point that Nokia's real skill can be in hardware design, packaging and marketing. | 01:42 |
| milhouse | I won't shed a tear | 01:42 |
| Jaffa | s/they're/their/ (shocking) | 01:42 |
| milhouse | Jaffa: 110% agree :( Utter fuckwits with that attitude are killing the next big thing. | 01:43 |
| lcuk | nokia doesnt have the right to open up the wifi driver, or the pvr | 01:43 |
| milhouse | They bought closed hardware - their fault | 01:44 |
| KotCzarny | but they could at least provide them | 01:44 |
| lcuk | yes | 01:44 |
| KotCzarny | to fully use what's inside the box | 01:44 |
| lcuk | binary blobs are tainted, but thats better than what we have now | 01:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's similar in the range for an ARM device other than OMAP? | 01:44 |
| milhouse | But I also find it hard to believe that a customer as large as Nokia could not get the suppliers to change their mind | 01:45 |
| *** briand has joined #maemo | 01:45 | |
| lcuk | blob side, they could have - the other devices from nokia using the same cpu have pvr available | 01:45 |
| milhouse | Particularly when you consider the same hardware is used in top end Nokia phones and they must be selling tens of millions - that must give Nokia tremendous leverage with the suppliers | 01:45 |
| Tama^2 | milhouse: do you even think they tried? | 01:46 |
| milhouse | Tama^2: I don't think the answer is clear cut | 01:46 |
| lcuk | paavo, you said you worked from the inside - are you a nokia employee? | 01:46 |
| Paavo | yes | 01:46 |
| milhouse | Blimey - Paavo, you're a rarity around here! :) | 01:47 |
| Paavo | though not involved with maemo | 01:47 |
| milhouse | Ah, that would explain it... | 01:47 |
| lcuk | are you aware that we on the maemo side have no power vr (3d graphics) driver available? | 01:47 |
| Tama^2 | and it's not only about the hardware, the (lame) system UI is closed | 01:47 |
| * Jaffa is still impressed that Nokia *are* doing Maemo and the N810. We just wish it were better ;-) | 01:47 | |
| lcuk | and is there anywhere you could possibly send an internal mail to to try to find out why? | 01:47 |
| *** fab has quit IRC | 01:48 | |
| lcuk | doesnt have to be serious, but to obtain a corporate stance on the matter would be beneficial | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like how Quim ignored the PowerVR question in the Skype interview. | 01:48 |
| *** AStorm has quit IRC | 01:48 | |
| lcuk | even if it is a "we cannot release that driver at this time" | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Something. | 01:48 |
| lcuk | something official would be a start | 01:48 |
| milhouse | Again I agree Jaffa, but it's failing in so many ways... I read the latest PCW magazine which had about 4 pages in the news section on MIDs - all it talked about were Intel MIDs and ASUS eee's and similar PCs. Not one single mention of Nokia or their Tablets. Nobody knows. Nobody cares. | 01:48 |
| KotCzarny | or 'we don't even have a driver nor plans to have one' | 01:48 |
| Paavo | Send a mail? I do know the people involved, but I doubt I have any more leverage than you, really. | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I haven't seen a single official word on the issue. | 01:48 |
| milhouse | In 10 years time, Nokia Internet Tablets will just be a Wiki footnote on "Internet Tablets" | 01:49 |
| lcuk | paavo, for a start, you KNOW them and have their addresses - i think an internal mail would be better than us digging and finding something which might just annoy the wrong person | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I think the guy we'd have to talk to is Quim. | 01:50 |
| Paavo | You sure I'm the only Nokia employee on this channel? | 01:50 |
| lcuk | milhouse, irrelivent - all companies become footnotes | 01:50 |
| lcuk | you are the first person who has identified themselves as such, yes | 01:50 |
| milhouse | lcuk: in time, but Nokia Internet Tablets could have been leading the field | 01:50 |
| Paavo | I'd be very surprised if that's the case. | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not true, lcuk. :P | 01:50 |
| lcuk | ahhh ok then | 01:50 |
| Paavo | Color me surprised then. | 01:50 |
| lcuk | why havent they been quizzed then? | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, try dropping a line to Quim. | 01:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | See if that gets you anywhere. | 01:51 |
| milhouse | lcuk: Actually, what's happening with NITs isn't untypical for revolutionary products... it's often the first product on the market that fails to ignite the imagination of consumers until a second version from someone else cleans up... | 01:51 |
| milhouse | I'm thinking in the UK of TiVo's which failed yet Sky+ (inferior product) is cleaning up - both are PVRs | 01:52 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: that's not quite true. qgil, tko, X-Fade, ferenc and a few others are/were often about. | 01:52 |
| Paavo | As for what parts Nokia should fight harder to get open sourced, Ari Jaaksi might be the more appropriate level of contact. | 01:52 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: true. | 01:52 |
| lcuk | milhouse, look around, its happening everywhere - linux products are taking off big style | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, as well. | 01:52 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: oops, naughty me forgetting timeless | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Who hasn't been around in months. | 01:52 |
| Jaffa | There are loads others I'm forgetting too | 01:52 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: hmm, that's true. Worrying. | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | and I still haven't gotten my shirt. ;_; | 01:53 |
| milhouse | lcuk: I know, great isn't it? :) | 01:53 |
| lcuk | right, well since there are enough paavo, my apologies - ill get something together for them :) | 01:53 |
| lcuk | milhouse YES | 01:53 |
| milhouse | daniels | 01:53 |
| lcuk | stone bloke yes of course | 01:53 |
| Jaffa | Indeed | 01:53 |
| Jaffa | Loads of 'em, see ;-) | 01:53 |
| milhouse | I suspect some disappeared as they were simply unable to answer some of the questions due to corporate bollox | 01:54 |
| Jaffa | They're just all silent whilst we bellyache | 01:54 |
| lcuk | just a documented binary driver is all thats needed to see what a difference we could make | 01:54 |
| milhouse | probably gave irc up as a bad idea | 01:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is too bad. | 01:55 |
| *** gopi has joined #maemo | 01:55 | |
| milhouse | aye... it's not irc that's the problem it's the secrecy which means using irc becomes painful | 01:55 |
| Paavo | Let's start with the corporate firewall that blocks IRC ports :) | 01:56 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 01:56 |
| KotCzarny | how about ssh? | 01:56 |
| lcuk | yes, sssssh about the ssh | 01:57 |
| Paavo | You pretty much have to have your own irssi/screen server somewhere outside to chat. | 01:57 |
| KotCzarny | paavo: anyone involved with *bsd/linux have at least one | 01:57 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 01:57 |
| Paavo | Fortunately there's an SSH gateway you can use. | 01:57 |
| *** BabelO has quit IRC | 01:57 | |
| Paavo | True. Or they should have. | 01:58 |
| KotCzarny | there's no place like 127.0.0.1 :) | 01:58 |
| *** Juhaz has joined #maemo | 01:58 | |
| KotCzarny | unless it's a corporate policy not to allow ssh sessions to the outside? | 01:59 |
| Paavo | It's ironic that with my company phone I can IRC easier with outsiders than with insiders. | 01:59 |
| milhouse | And another gripe about Nokia Tablets - when will they sort out the fricking repository madness? I've never seen so much talk about something so fundamentally broken and so little action. | 01:59 |
| *** unique311 has quit IRC | 01:59 | |
| KotCzarny | defaults are ok | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | milhouse, hopefully that's in the next few months. | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade is on the case! | 02:00 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 02:00 |
| Paavo | The phone of course connects to the public net, and getting to the intranet from there would require cumbersome authentication. As for chatting with outsiders, it's a few clicks in the PuTTY client. | 02:00 |
| milhouse | Fingers crossed :) | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | texrat's making some moves on it internally, evidently. | 02:00 |
| *** jkyro has quit IRC | 02:00 | |
| KotCzarny | :) | 02:00 |
| Paavo | milhouse: Whatever "repository madness" you have - trust me, it's way better than anything on S60 side. | 02:01 |
| milhouse | Texrat bless him - I hope he doesn't get burned by all of this | 02:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | For serious. | 02:01 |
| milhouse | Paavo: Dunno, never used an S60 although I'm waiting to buy the N96 when it comes out... | 02:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think he may have gotten a bit of a smackdown on his internal blogging, though. :\ | 02:01 |
| Paavo | The S60 side has problems with much more basic things. | 02:01 |
| lcuk | i hear the 95 has similar gps connection problems | 02:02 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: indeed, did very much sound like a management slapping | 02:02 |
| lcuk | but it has an assistedsoftware fix to push it | 02:02 |
| * doc|home waiting for the openmoko freerunner? | 02:03 | |
| GeneralAntilles | More corporate stupidity. | 02:03 |
| milhouse | Paavo: But on the tablets, the repositories are a complete mess with literally every app creating their own "section" or using one of three spellings for the same section (Utilities, utilities, utils etc.). Total bollox for a device that's supposed to be end user ready | 02:03 |
| lcuk | isnt that the fault of the developers though - or should nokia hold off and release a full sdk and toolchain which works nicely (like apple have done) | 02:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, packagers should be less stupid. | 02:04 |
| lcuk | if i tried to make a package now i would fail. but because the software might work it might have to stick | 02:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | But Nokia hasn't set down any good guidelines. | 02:04 |
| lcuk | they shouldnt need to - this is linux stuff isnt it? | 02:05 |
| milhouse | lcuk: absolutely it's the fault of the developers, some of whome are Nokia developers. But as the repositories are also hosted on Nokia infra it's their responsibility to help clean them up, as other distros do | 02:05 |
| milhouse | Nokia have guidelines, but don't enforce them - end result: a mess | 02:05 |
| lcuk | yes, and things cant change overnight, i have just seen people mentioned who are in there trying to help | 02:05 |
| milhouse | GA: they have, the problem is nobody bothers with them | 02:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need a half-dozen people to QC Extras. | 02:05 |
| *** Cptnodegard has quit IRC | 02:05 | |
| Paavo | so you say there should be people auditing the quality of the packages and rejecting those who don't conform? | 02:05 |
| milhouse | Paavo: DAMN RIGHT | 02:06 |
| milhouse | :) | 02:06 |
| `0660 | i agree | 02:06 |
| milhouse | Absolutely... sanity check them | 02:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, sticking them in Extra-devel, anyway. | 02:06 |
| lcuk | lol paavo, its not such rejecting - its helping mould the packages to the standard - discuss with devs how to help | 02:06 |
| lcuk | i fight every day against DRM | 02:06 |
| milhouse | Consistency and Quality will sky rocket | 02:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Extras access needs to be streamlined, too. | 02:06 |
| lcuk | i wanted an open system - let the nokia people actively help to get packages straight | 02:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | So we can get everybody and their mother to stop putting up their own repos. | 02:07 |
| lcdd | Debian has an automated tool to help developers find problems with their packages before they submit them | 02:07 |
| Paavo | lintian? | 02:07 |
| Jaffa | Debian and Ubuntu don't expect random developers to stick good packages in their repositories, they have teams ensuring consistency | 02:07 |
| lcuk | "ok, you just submitted a package for xyz, its looking good, but you used the wrong install key, the shortcut you created is green" | 02:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | If a user can turn on and connect their brand new device, open up Application manager, enabled Extras and have access to most-all of the good application packages, we'll be in a good place. | 02:08 |
| Jaffa | Hear hear | 02:08 |
| milhouse | Agreed | 02:08 |
| milhouse | Does anyone actually view Application Manager using anything but "All"? | 02:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 02:09 |
| milhouse | Ridiculous, isn't it | 02:09 |
| lcuk | i try not to use it at all nowadays | 02:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Who could guess what category the stuff you're looking for is in? | 02:09 |
| milhouse | fair point | 02:09 |
| * KotCzarny doesn't use app-manager at all | 02:09 | |
| lcuk | only because i have a stable machine and it does what i want - i guess somedays i will browse the list | 02:09 |
| milhouse | GA: You can't! Although I reckon I know what's in "Boingo" ffs... one app, called Boingo | 02:09 |
| *** oska1 has joined #maemo | 02:10 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Application manager is the only way to find cool new applications. :P | 02:10 |
| KotCzarny | not true | 02:10 |
| milhouse | Boingo... contains Boingomobile... a third party app, no doubt created with the involvement of Nokia... and still they flout the guidelines and fck it up - put in Communication for crying out loud! | 02:10 |
| KotCzarny | maemo.org is | 02:10 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 02:10 |
| lcuk | yer, but the amount of epople who have bad experiences : re bad repo list etc make me nervous - i have backed off everything and just have the nokia ones no | 02:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eh, the only trouble you'll really run into is with the rtcomm beta repo. | 02:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | and an apt-get upgrade. | 02:11 |
| milhouse | I just tend to avoid personal repositories full stop | 02:12 |
| Paavo | So, how could that be helped? Develop a tool that automatically checks some basics and accepts the package only if it passes? | 02:12 |
| KotCzarny | repackage .debs | 02:12 |
| KotCzarny | on the fly | 02:12 |
| lcuk | the amount of times manager pops up and says "repo couldnt be contacted, file corrupt, cannot install" is more worrying than a single broken program | 02:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need people who know what the hell they're doing managing Extras. | 02:12 |
| KotCzarny | and a http form with preset fcategories | 02:12 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 02:12 |
| milhouse | Paavo: A few ideas were being thrown about on the mailing list a few weeks/months back... basically a checking tool, perhaps with real people eyeballing and installing apps to make sure they install ok, don't crash immediately, are in the right section, have a description etc. | 02:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | I love all the applications with the name as the description. <_< | 02:13 |
| milhouse | Apart from the installation side of things, the basic sanity checks can be done in a few seconds | 02:13 |
| milhouse | GA: They'd be first up against the wall... | 02:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's always stupid obscure stuff with non-descriptive names that I'd have to google to figure out what the hell they do. | 02:14 |
| milhouse | And of course it doesn't mean every update has to be checked... perhaps just the first time an app appears in Extras-devel and then any time certain fields change in the package | 02:14 |
| milhouse | if an update appears which has the same description/section etc. then no need to re-check it apart from ensuring it installs | 02:15 |
| milhouse | which may become optional | 02:15 |
| lcuk | milhouse, level of trust increases, a frequently updates app with good stability is different to a first time user submitting an alternative program doing something completely different 24 hours after the first ever accepted submission | 02:15 |
| milhouse | lcuk: spot on | 02:15 |
| *** Yancho has quit IRC | 02:15 | |
| *** Yancho has joined #maemo | 02:16 | |
| milhouse | ultimately it can become a very workable system with only a few "helpers" | 02:16 |
| Jaffa | Indeed. | 02:16 |
| Jaffa | <sigh/> | 02:16 |
| KotCzarny | even 1 | 02:16 |
| lcuk | then who will give up their job and do it - seriously, if nokia asked you - would YOU do it? | 02:16 |
| milhouse | yep, though the initial flood could be a bit overwhelming :) | 02:16 |
| milhouse | lcuk: Sure | 02:16 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: yes, I volunteered. As did loads others. | 02:17 |
| milhouse | I even said I would in the mailing list | 02:17 |
| Jaffa | Nokia asked for the community to come up with a plan. We did, and asked for feedback on whether it'd conflict with anything Nokia had in their (secret) pipeline. There was no response. | 02:17 |
| KotCzarny | i have much time too | 02:17 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 02:17 |
| milhouse | Basic sanity checking could be done while I'm at work... check the description is accurate, it's in the right section for what it's supposed to do etc. | 02:17 |
| milhouse | Installing may have to wait until I get home | 02:17 |
| lcuk | alternatively since lots have offered. how could we do it as a community then? some kind of central pusher to send a list of moderators the submissions | 02:17 |
| * Jaffa 's time is too precious to chase up Nokia to help them sort out their own mess. | 02:17 | |
| KotCzarny | let's make another repo! | 02:17 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 02:18 |
| lcuk | :D | 02:18 |
| KotCzarny | extras-eyeballed | 02:18 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/01/13/solving_the_lack_of_qa_and_muliple_repos | 02:18 |
| Paavo | One thing to take into account is that there was a reorg at the beginning of this year and things may not be completely settled down yet. | 02:18 |
| Jaffa | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-January/013889.html more specifically. | 02:18 |
| milhouse | Jaffa: And *THAT'S* the Nokia attitude that pisses me off... we spend a lot of time proposing ideas, even working on solutions only for Nokia to say nothing and work on their own thing, eventually wasting our time | 02:18 |
| lcuk | paavo, i said this earlier - things do not happen overnight :) | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | The glacial rate of corporate movement is a big problem for a primarily open source project like this. | 02:19 |
| milhouse | lcuk: Basically yes, it's just a workflow issue | 02:19 |
| KotCzarny | then why not take task in out hands? | 02:19 |
| Paavo | I don't have any inside information on the Maemo side, but overall a complete reorg does slow things down. | 02:19 |
| KotCzarny | let's make a repo, good one | 02:19 |
| KotCzarny | it can be merged later into extars | 02:19 |
| KotCzarny | extras | 02:19 |
| lcuk | pupnik has already essentially started :) | 02:20 |
| KotCzarny | but it will be good to have a packages base ready | 02:20 |
| KotCzarny | good :) | 02:20 |
| milhouse | Paavo: No offence, but it's the same old excuses such as that one which are trotted out to make up for the problems that never improve. | 02:20 |
| *** Tama^2 has quit IRC | 02:20 | |
| KotCzarny | now the more detailed plan is needed :) | 02:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | It would help a lot if we got a little more useful communication on some of the big issues. | 02:21 |
| lcuk | ok, supposing we went down your route kot, submissions - if we had a site available where we could check them out and vote on them ourselves - it could work. | 02:21 |
| Jaffa | KotCzarny: cos X-Fade is now doing work, paid for by Nokia, on these problems. But we only find out about it when it's unveiled as a (very welcome) beta. | 02:21 |
| Jaffa | i.e. what GeneralAntilles just said | 02:21 |
| lcuk | a private members only beta repo and a public happy one | 02:21 |
| KotCzarny | jaffa: then this whole talk is not needed | 02:22 |
| *** christefano has joined #maemo | 02:22 | |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not that the maemo guys are quiet (Quim is incredibly involved in the community all things considered) | 02:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | We just don't get communication on a lot of important issues. | 02:22 |
| KotCzarny | about nokia not doing anything | 02:22 |
| Jaffa | KotCzarny: assuming a) it's finished, b) it's right, c) it's done on time. | 02:22 |
| KotCzarny | just not posting updates | 02:22 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 02:22 |
| milhouse | Is Quim still active? His blog postings have almost ground to a halt | 02:23 |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 02:23 | |
| Jaffa | KotCzarny: It's indicative of a lack of involvement necessary to create the community. There've been hints of moaning that Nokia has to do too much; but then they do things in a way which doesn't encourage participation. | 02:23 |
| milhouse | And his postings in the mailing list are pretty rare | 02:23 |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 02:23 | |
| milhouse | Amd hasn't his role changed somehow? | 02:23 |
| milhouse | s/role/role within Nokia and Maemo/ | 02:23 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: Amd hasn't his role within Nokia and Maemo changed somehow? | 02:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | He popped in for a bit this week to add some sanity to the thread on the guys leaving maemo. | 02:24 |
| *** Masca has quit IRC | 02:24 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Haven't heard much else in the last few weeks, though. | 02:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Last BIG thing was the interview with thoughtfix. | 02:24 |
| KotCzarny | this or other way, having community controlled repo can be a nice temporary fix | 02:25 |
| milhouse | Yeah which said... not much | 02:25 |
| milhouse | :( | 02:25 |
| *** Synchronicity has joined #maemo | 02:25 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 02:25 |
| KotCzarny | all the work needed later will be simply copying packages | 02:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like I said before, I like how he ignored the PowerVR question. | 02:25 |
| *** Masca has joined #maemo | 02:25 | |
| milhouse | The one question I wanted him to answer he dodged (guess which one, mentioned already above) | 02:25 |
| milhouse | (mentioned above twice now) :) | 02:26 |
| milhouse | I wonder if Intel MIDs will have a PIM... :) | 02:26 |
| * KotCzarny writes cmdline app to deiconify windows | 02:26 | |
| KotCzarny | or anyone knows about one? | 02:26 |
| milhouse | That's such a thorny issue for Nokia | 02:26 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: they do, IIRC. | 02:27 |
| milhouse | IMHO, I think the NITs don't have any real PIM support out of the box because of the E90 | 02:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shouldn't it be fairly straightforward to port a MID application to ITOS? | 02:27 |
| Navi | If it's a hildonized Ubuntu Mobile app | 02:28 |
| Navi | there isn't much needed to do than to cross compile in most cases | 02:28 |
| Navi | s/isn't much needed/shouldn't be much more/ | 02:29 |
| infobot | Navi meant: there shouldn't be much more to do than to cross compile in most cases | 02:29 |
| lcuk | so many programs work with mouse it doesnt end up looking right | 02:29 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I think they're relying on a bigger screen size (albeit same res) so it might not work too well | 02:29 |
| milhouse | Aren't Intel MIDs 800x480? | 02:30 |
| milhouse | ah sorry - mis-read | 02:30 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: yes, but physcially larger (to date) | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lower dpi | 02:30 |
| milhouse | so different dpi - could make a difference i suppose | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're not much larger, though. | 02:30 |
| milhouse | things could be too small on nokia screens | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~5" versus 4.1" | 02:30 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Main one so far is the Samsung Q1 Ultra which is a full blown UMPC. That got a 5" screen? | 02:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's not a MID. :P | 02:31 |
| Jaffa | All the s/w's very flaky at the moment. I tried it on my Eee. | 02:31 |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #maemo | 02:31 | |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: indeed, but I didn't think there was actually any MID h/w yet? | 02:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Intel reference designs are in the 5-7" range. | 02:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, true enough. | 02:31 |
| milhouse | jaffa: when they due? in the summer? | 02:31 |
| Jaffa | Coo, 110 downloads of tablet-encode 2.18 already :-D | 02:31 |
| *** pupnik_ has joined #maemo | 02:31 | |
| Navi | Jaffa, woo | 02:32 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: dunno | 02:32 |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 02:32 | |
| lcuk | jaffa, is that in a repo? :P | 02:32 |
| milhouse | i thought last year they were targetting summer 2008 (or there abouts)... hopefully they're still on target | 02:32 |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 02:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | They're gonna be way out of my price range. | 02:32 |
| lcuk | dont bank on it - hardware prices are dropping | 02:33 |
| milhouse | more than €99? | 02:33 |
| milhouse | i bet they don't have a developers program | 02:33 |
| milhouse | :) | 02:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | For the MIDs or N900? | 02:33 |
| milhouse | MIDs :) | 02:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, hehe. | 02:33 |
| Navi | Personally, I don't think the Intel MIDs are going to be out this summer. | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully they'll still do the discount program for the N900. | 02:34 |
| lcuk | i foresee eee touch before then for peanuts | 02:34 |
| Navi | s/peanuts/500USD/ | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eee form factor appeals to me this much: 0 :P | 02:34 |
| lcuk | 9 inches of goodness | 02:34 |
| milhouse | with eee pc's selling for ~£200 I can't see MIDs being super expensive | 02:34 |
| lcuk | i agree on FF unless they can fold back the keyboard totally | 02:34 |
| milhouse | in fact the eee PC tends to make nokia tablets look expensive | 02:35 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I just hope the s/w lives up to the hoped-for N900 hardware (and a discount programme ;-) | 02:35 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: indeed | 02:35 |
| lcuk | milhouse, there is the elonexone for £99 as well | 02:35 |
| milhouse | lcuk: yeah. i mean, at that price it's worth a punt just for a laugh | 02:35 |
| Navi | The N800's half the price of the only Eee worth buying | 02:35 |
| milhouse | navi: now it is, not when it came out | 02:36 |
| milhouse | compare the eee pc with the n810 | 02:36 |
| lcuk | exactly - and since i should be able to use code on anything once its wrote its a winner :) | 02:36 |
| lcuk | like i said, im thinking longterm when i code today | 02:36 |
| lcuk | (ermmm apart from wehen i optimise for the specific device ...lol | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was gonna say. :P | 02:37 |
| Navi | milhouse, I could care less for the N810, WiMax tablet, or the next N800 spinoff | 02:37 |
| lcuk | i have no problem with writing a core set of functions to interface with the metal - its abstracted and can be duplicated/adjusted/used on different devices without effecting the programs | 02:37 |
| milhouse | Navi: fair enough, but others might wonder why the N810 costs as much as a full PC laptop :) | 02:38 |
| milhouse | Navi: And when you see the prices the N800, and the 770 before it, sell for (and still make a profit) you have to wonder how much margin there is in the Nokia Internet Tablets | 02:38 |
| *** Pio__ has joined #maemo | 02:39 | |
| milhouse | Not that I'm criticising Nokia pricing policy per se, but it's coming under pressure from all areas | 02:39 |
| lcuk | they are a high volume, high spec company who source mini hardware like candy | 02:39 |
| milhouse | Yep, the NITs are just mobile phones with the phone | 02:40 |
| milhouse | s/with/without/ | 02:40 |
| lcuk | out | 02:40 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: Yep, the NITs are just mobile phones without the phone | 02:40 |
| milhouse | and a bigger display | 02:40 |
| Jaffa | And fewer regulatory hoops | 02:40 |
| milhouse | and running Linux not Symbian | 02:40 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 02:40 |
| Navi | milhouse, that's why you don't buy an N810. | 02:41 |
| milhouse | Jaffa: Yes, which people still don't get | 02:41 |
| *** VRe has quit IRC | 02:41 | |
| milhouse | Jaffa: and complain about the lack of a phone - leaving it out was a master stroke! | 02:41 |
| milhouse | Navi: I have one | 02:41 |
| Jaffa | Agreed 100% | 02:41 |
| lcuk | wimax version will appeal to some people | 02:42 |
| KotCzarny | that's because on nokia's site it's in 'phones' category | 02:42 |
| milhouse | Navi: I have all three, though I'm not sure I'll ever buy a fourth | 02:42 |
| lcuk | though for me, its a house computer - wifi is perfect | 02:42 |
| KotCzarny | they should sell it as pda | 02:42 |
| lcuk | (10ma wifi at that, i dont like the shout :) | 02:42 |
| lcuk | they cant, it doesnt have the PIM | 02:42 |
| * lcuk sees a cycle forming | 02:42 | |
| KotCzarny | oh. | 02:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | I hate it when people bitch about it not having a cellular modem. | 02:43 |
| *** tjafk1 has joined #maemo | 02:43 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Makes me want to tear my eyes out. <_< | 02:43 |
| milhouse | I could see internet tablets (Nokia or Intel) becoming all the computing power most people need... have a dock at home, use it with a big screen/keyboard/mouse/loudspeakers... undock it and slip it into your pocket. this is the future i see, not sure Nokia will really be a part of it though | 02:43 |
| lcuk | so, it lives as a nice toy for now. im happy because i will code for it until it dies then i will get something else shiney | 02:43 |
| KotCzarny | then it looks like IT was a great idea but not fitting company profile | 02:43 |
| KotCzarny | and existing channels | 02:43 |
| *** pupnik has quit IRC | 02:43 | |
| lcuk | http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/14/nokia-nobounds-projects-promises-full-hd-video-over-usb-or-wlan/ | 02:44 |
| *** p| has quit IRC | 02:44 | |
| KotCzarny | seen already | 02:44 |
| KotCzarny | twice | 02:44 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 02:44 |
| lcuk | but dont take it at face value: its a windows xp program running the decoding and syncing | 02:44 |
| *** b0unc3_ has quit IRC | 02:44 | |
| KotCzarny | and discussed too | 02:44 |
| lcuk | only posted because it was what milhouse said | 02:44 |
| KotCzarny | ok :) | 02:45 |
| *** Tama^2 has joined #maemo | 02:46 | |
| milhouse | lcuk: not sure that's really what i'm saying... an awful lot of people just want a computer for email, web and office apps - a 3GHz 2GB RAM 500Watt computer is overkill when it can all be done with something running an OMAP processor! :) | 02:47 |
| milhouse | it just needs the appropriate connections and software to make it happen | 02:47 |
| milhouse | And I think Intel know this already | 02:47 |
| lcuk | i had this discussion a number of times with a colleague and i agree with you - the eee pc and the elonexone are examples of such a thing. however he has given a single motivational argument against: with a big fast pc you CAN run any game you want. with a restricted one you are ermmm restricted. as long as you know that fact from the start it will be ok | 02:48 |
| *** Crfrodf has joined #maemo | 02:48 | |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 02:49 |
| KotCzarny | actually | 02:49 |
| lcuk | people think they can use any computer to run anything | 02:49 |
| milhouse | lcuk: *LOTS* more people don't want games | 02:49 |
| KotCzarny | 2ghz, 2gb ram laptop is ~15W | 02:49 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 02:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lots of people are happy with Battlegweled and Solitaire, too. | 02:49 |
| * lcuk feels like hes playing devils advocate - i agree guys | 02:49 | |
| *** AStorm has joined #maemo | 02:50 | |
| *** Pio has quit IRC | 02:50 | |
| AStorm | hello | 02:50 |
| *** sp3000 has quit IRC | 02:50 | |
| AStorm | I've found why there are spurious clicks | 02:50 |
| milhouse | true, which can run on low spec hardware :) but ordinary people just want the basics... my folks for example, or my older brothers and their families. i'd say people wanting a pc for 3d games etc. are the minority | 02:50 |
| lcuk | my very wise manager says that our software can do what it does for about 90% of the things people need it for. to make the other 10% happy would take an enormous amount of resources | 02:50 |
| AStorm | and other weird behaviour | 02:50 |
| AStorm | stupids fromNokia reniced X to -1 | 02:51 |
| milhouse | lcuk: it's usually quoted as the 80/20 rule | 02:51 |
| milhouse | lcuk: but 90 is better than 80, so you're doing well :) | 02:51 |
| lcuk | milhouse, my mom was the same, she had trundled along quite nicely with her win2000 slow box for years - she got interested in gaming very rescently | 02:51 |
| AStorm | which causes rampant priority inversions with 2.6.21 scheduler | 02:51 |
| lcuk | milhouse :) | 02:51 |
| milhouse | lcuk: god forbid if mine ever does!!!! | 02:52 |
| *** greentux__ has joined #maemo | 02:52 | |
| KotCzarny | milfhouse, lol | 02:52 |
| lcuk | :D | 02:52 |
| lcuk | lmao | 02:52 |
| AStorm | renicing X to 0 fixed the problems and improved interactivity | 02:52 |
| milhouse | milf??? :) | 02:52 |
| KotCzarny | just kidding :) | 02:52 |
| AStorm | :P | 02:52 |
| lcuk | PMSL - get her in irc | 02:52 |
| KotCzarny | only one letter away makes such a difference :) | 02:52 |
| AStorm | ya people :P | 02:52 |
| milhouse | hey steady on! she's 70!!! | 02:52 |
| lcuk | AStorm, sorry, we just floated offtopic for a while | 02:53 |
| milhouse | can hardly work the video recorder... in fact, i know she can't | 02:53 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: nice, but i bet there was an idea about renicing x | 02:53 |
| KotCzarny | nice to test though | 02:53 |
| lcuk | gilfhouse :D | 02:53 |
| AStorm | so, just remove nice in that init script | 02:53 |
| lcuk | omg i best stop snorting, im very sorry milhouse | 02:53 |
| KotCzarny | or renice it later | 02:53 |
| milhouse | np :) | 02:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 02:53 |
| AStorm | heh, fun part is now that sound doen't stutter, ever | 02:53 |
| KotCzarny | cool | 02:54 |
| milhouse | i bought her a tivo though - she loves it... | 02:54 |
| AStorm | I'll check video performance too | 02:54 |
| * KotCzarny tests it | 02:54 | |
| AStorm | guess old scheduler had really broken nice | 02:54 |
| AStorm | :P | 02:54 |
| lcuk | i have noticed something re remote controls - i made one in python right at the start to replace my existing hardware remote which was broke - its not as good - i have to look at the device to see where the buttons are | 02:54 |
| lcuk | i would hate a full no hardware press controller (like iphone) | 02:54 |
| milhouse | lcuk: i have a touchscreen phone - sony ericsson w950i... and i hate it | 02:55 |
| milhouse | phone rings... try to answer it pressing a soft button... no response, software busy... miss the call. pos. | 02:55 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 02:56 |
| KotCzarny | true | 02:56 |
| KotCzarny | no clicks | 02:56 |
| lcuk | astorm - before you mess around with nice - just as a test, try adjusting the cpu up_threshhold | 02:56 |
| KotCzarny | never thought it's so easy | 02:56 |
| AStorm | lcuk, well, tried it first | 02:56 |
| milhouse | lcuk: Harmony One is a good compromise - I have one, very good. | 02:56 |
| AStorm | didn't help | 02:56 |
| lcuk | it starts at 80% and its helped push my program up where it needs - i dropped it to 40% and it works perfectly. damn | 02:56 |
| KotCzarny | the simplest test is to open vol/bri status bar window while playing | 02:56 |
| AStorm | the problem was softirqs getting preempted by xomap | 02:57 |
| AStorm | checked with top | 02:57 |
| lcuk | boo | 02:57 |
| lcuk | but sorted now | 02:57 |
| * AStorm still wants a CFS-patched 2.6.21ü-omap | 02:57 | |
| AStorm | :) | 02:58 |
| milhouse | lcuk: this IBM research project is where I see tablets going in future: http://www.research.ibm.com/WearableComputing/MetaPad/metapad.html | 02:58 |
| AStorm | there were backports... and Ingo Molnar would probably refresh one if asked nicely | 02:58 |
| KotCzarny | milhouse: http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4124 | 02:58 |
| milhouse | yeah right... not in my lifetime | 02:59 |
| milhouse | :) | 02:59 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 02:59 |
| lcuk | milhouse, ive seen that before and i think the right direction | 02:59 |
| KotCzarny | have you ever though about 400mhz in your hand? | 02:59 |
| KotCzarny | in '80 ? | 02:59 |
| doc|home | KotCzarny: I was still a twinkle in my father's eye then | 04:00 |
| AStorm | hehe, I had 4 MHz in my hand | 04:00 |
| AStorm | a TI calculator | 04:00 |
| AStorm | :P | 04:00 |
| milhouse | 20 years ago weren't they saying we'd have hover cars by now? | 04:00 |
| KotCzarny | doc: but still, it's progressing quite fast | 04:00 |
| *** tjafk has quit IRC | 04:00 | |
| milhouse | some "future ideas" just don't work out... | 04:00 |
| KotCzarny | yeah | 04:01 |
| AStorm | blah, there is a prototype "hovercar" | 04:01 |
| milhouse | the ibm concept is entirely realistic, today | 04:01 |
| KotCzarny | civilization ends in 2012 anyway | 04:01 |
| KotCzarny | so take your time | 04:01 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:01 |
| AStorm | lol | 04:01 |
| AStorm | 2012 due to oil shortage, naaaah | 04:01 |
| KotCzarny | nope | 04:01 |
| *** achadwick has joined #maemo | 04:01 | |
| KotCzarny | due solar activity | 04:01 |
| AStorm | too banal | 04:01 |
| milhouse | i often wonder why they have got hildon running at higher resolutions... i hold out the feint hope it's for precisely this kind of concept | 04:01 |
| AStorm | huh? | 04:01 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: this solar cycle is predicted to be a badass | 04:02 |
| Jaffa | Doh, clocks have just gone forward | 04:02 |
| lcuk | whats the front end of the eee? | 04:02 |
| milhouse | when does the unix/c clock run out? :) | 04:02 |
| KotCzarny | something we never saw before | 04:02 |
| AStorm | so? it'll knock out some satellites? | 04:02 |
| KotCzarny | 2039 | 04:02 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: more | 04:02 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Basically IceWM with a customised full-screen launcher in the root window. Full KDE also available | 04:02 |
| AStorm | mess with earth's magnetic field? | 04:02 |
| KotCzarny | electricity grids are already in danger during more intense magnetic storms | 04:02 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:02 |
| AStorm | pole reversal? | 04:03 |
| lcuk | yes i know - and the olpc has sugar and we have maemo - its all a nice way to start the day off | 04:03 |
| AStorm | blah grids | 04:03 |
| KotCzarny | that too, but later | 04:03 |
| lcuk | thx jaffa for specifics | 04:03 |
| AStorm | who needs a grid when we can have local lants? | 04:03 |
| AStorm | *plants | 04:03 |
| KotCzarny | heh | 04:03 |
| KotCzarny | you're interconnected | 04:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | maemo is a development environment, not a UI. :P | 04:03 |
| KotCzarny | once part of the network goes down | 04:03 |
| KotCzarny | the rest follows because of the overload | 04:04 |
| AStorm | everything else stays up | 04:04 |
| milhouse | i want my own mini fusion reactor | 04:04 |
| AStorm | we know balancing | 04:04 |
| AStorm | the proble is if you rely on a small number of sources | 04:04 |
| AStorm | like atomic power | 04:04 |
| KotCzarny | brb | 04:04 |
| AStorm | here in PL, there are many small coal power plants, so mostly no problem | 04:05 |
| lcuk | direct radiation->electric conversion will be good. we can finally get away from waste product being a problem | 04:05 |
| AStorm | a bit of smart power routing and that's all | 04:05 |
| lcuk | if all that ends, we can just breed hamsters | 04:05 |
| AStorm | lcuk: isn't that called photovoltaics? | 04:05 |
| AStorm | already there, not terribly efficient or cheap | 04:06 |
| *** Crfrod has quit IRC | 04:06 | |
| KotCzarny | astorm: you're thinking locally | 04:06 |
| lcuk | yes, but directly from the radiation source instead of just heating water and using turbines | 04:06 |
| KotCzarny | right now you're part of the world | 04:06 |
| AStorm | blah, blah | 04:07 |
| lcuk | http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/28/1529235&from=rss | 04:07 |
| KotCzarny | what will you do when routers go down? | 04:07 |
| AStorm | set up MANs, finally | 04:07 |
| KotCzarny | no electronic transactions | 04:07 |
| KotCzarny | for example | 04:07 |
| lcuk | reroute around - a mesh net will be better anyway | 04:07 |
| AStorm | ya | 04:07 |
| KotCzarny | no mesh | 04:07 |
| *** greentux_ has quit IRC | 04:07 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Old people! | 04:07 |
| KotCzarny | because of magnetic storm | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | (plus a form of fusion) | 04:07 |
| lcuk | work locally - local commerce again,. local banks etc - but for long distance an internet will exist | 04:07 |
| AStorm | KotCzarny: use fibre? | 04:07 |
| KotCzarny | i'm talking about disabled electronics | 04:07 |
| AStorm | it's used today anyway | 04:08 |
| KotCzarny | fibre, ok | 04:08 |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 04:08 | |
| KotCzarny | but it still runs on electricitry | 04:08 |
| KotCzarny | electricity | 04:08 |
| AStorm | yup | 04:08 |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 04:08 | |
| milhouse | lcuk: Maybe the Amish were on to something... | 04:08 |
| KotCzarny | and there are routers on the way | 04:08 |
| AStorm | generate that locally | 04:08 |
| KotCzarny | no generation | 04:08 |
| AStorm | buy your solar pane today :P | 04:08 |
| KotCzarny | no power because electronics is disabled | 04:08 |
| lcuk | the amish are are protection against the worst that can come. like ham radio people. we need some folks who know how to live without tech | 04:08 |
| AStorm | nah, ahield it and it will be fine | 04:09 |
| AStorm | *shield | 04:09 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: you can shield, ok | 04:09 |
| KotCzarny | but who will pay? | 04:09 |
| KotCzarny | you have to shield everything | 04:09 |
| AStorm | who needs it to work | 04:09 |
| KotCzarny | and there must be an incentive | 04:09 |
| KotCzarny | to do it | 04:09 |
| lcuk | there are jungle dwellers, there are tribes everywhere if you look hard enough | 04:09 |
| AStorm | nah.,not everything | 04:09 |
| Tama^2 | did I join #scifi by mistake? :P | 04:09 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: you think local, switch to global :) | 04:09 |
| milhouse | The Russians had it right - build their fighter jets with themionic valves, not transistors. The Americans laughed at the Russians antiquated tech, until they realised the Russian jets would still be flying after a nuclear blast had knocked out the American jets due to the EMP pulse... | 04:09 |
| AStorm | only control electronics | 04:09 |
| lcuk | no tama, we moved from nokia problems to the end of the world - its not a large jump | 04:09 |
| AStorm | plain power lines will be ok, if noisy | 04:10 |
| jaska | rubber boots | 04:10 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: not true | 04:10 |
| AStorm | will need expensive filters | 04:10 |
| KotCzarny | there were blackouts already | 04:10 |
| AStorm | because there will be spikes | 04:10 |
| KotCzarny | and it's not related to the upcoming solar cycle | 04:10 |
| KotCzarny | just regular sun activity | 04:10 |
| AStorm | it means someone has failed at the plant :P | 04:11 |
| lcuk | KotCzarny, do you walk around the streets with a board on your back when your not in here? :P | 04:11 |
| KotCzarny | nope | 04:11 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:11 |
| AStorm | I blame cost cutting | 04:11 |
| KotCzarny | you may blame | 04:11 |
| lcuk | realist :) | 04:11 |
| KotCzarny | but you will be without your toys | 04:11 |
| KotCzarny | as the rest of the people | 04:11 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:11 |
| AStorm | yeah, they stripped transformers of proper filtering | 04:11 |
| milhouse | So these nuclear batteries that aren't user replaceable - they sound like the perfect power source for Apple products. | 04:11 |
| AStorm | and spikes blasted lines | 04:11 |
| KotCzarny | even water pumps run on electricity | 04:11 |
| KotCzarny | no power -- no water | 04:12 |
| *** l7_ has quit IRC | 04:12 | |
| lcuk | milhouse, if you consider a 20 or 30 year lifespan, its not a bad idea for anything | 04:12 |
| AStorm | or mechanical power | 04:12 |
| KotCzarny | let this outage last more than week | 04:12 |
| KotCzarny | now, this would be fun | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | milhouse, can you imagine the Apple Zealot terrorists? | 04:12 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:12 |
| AStorm | blah blah | 04:12 |
| milhouse | GA: They're already here aren't they? | 04:12 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: we will see | 04:12 |
| AStorm | we have backup pressure systems | 04:12 |
| KotCzarny | this talk doesn't matter | 04:12 |
| Tama^2 | do they use apple IR remotes to detonate themselves? | 04:12 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | But they're not armed with nuclear material. :P | 04:13 |
| AStorm | what is it called... capillary? | 04:13 |
| milhouse | Clockwork power is the future... | 04:13 |
| AStorm | I guess it is | 04:13 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: think global | 04:13 |
| AStorm | low pressure water | 04:13 |
| KotCzarny | i'm not saying WHOLE world will go down at once | 04:13 |
| AStorm | but still enough to feed whole city | 04:13 |
| KotCzarny | just start some riots there and there | 04:13 |
| AStorm | heh, yup | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need to harvest energy from farts. | 04:13 |
| milhouse | GA: they bore me to death anyway, the nuclear material may just speed up the process - bring it on! | 04:13 |
| KotCzarny | and you will see some real fun | 04:13 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 04:13 |
| * GeneralAntilles is tired of the new non-computer-focused Apple. | 04:14 | |
| KotCzarny | and guess what, security systems are down too | 04:14 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 04:14 |
| AStorm | not in this country in any forseeable future, unfortunately | 04:14 |
| milhouse | So will my power shower still be working in the future? | 04:14 |
| AStorm | milhouse: no | 04:14 |
| milhouse | Or will I be doubly screwed? | 04:14 |
| milhouse | damn | 04:14 |
| KotCzarny | power shaver | 04:14 |
| AStorm | unless you add your own water pump | 04:14 |
| KotCzarny | unless you live close to river | 04:15 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:15 |
| AStorm | nah, that's not enough | 04:15 |
| KotCzarny | but helps a little | 04:15 |
| *** gopi has quit IRC | 04:15 | |
| milhouse | GA: I admire Apple for how they have reinvented themselves... | 04:15 |
| KotCzarny | pity nokia doesn't have a crank :) | 04:15 |
| milhouse | GA: Fingers in pretty much every pie... both Nokia and Microsoft are scrambling to catch up | 04:16 |
| AStorm | to have current water pressure hold using capillary systems would need some 1000m high water tower | 04:16 |
| *** guardian has joined #maemo | 04:16 | |
| AStorm | KotCzarny: nothing stops you fom adding one | 04:16 |
| KotCzarny | cool | 04:16 |
| KotCzarny | now add some serious weather | 04:17 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:17 |
| AStorm | except replacing charger electronic | 04:17 |
| AStorm | :P | 04:17 |
| KotCzarny | unwashed people -> sick people | 04:17 |
| KotCzarny | :P | 04:17 |
| AStorm | this 5V charger is junk | 04:17 |
| AStorm | that's why battery charges so slowly | 04:18 |
| AStorm | too low current | 04:18 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: thanks for the renice info anyway | 04:19 |
| KotCzarny | i have seen it in the scripts | 04:19 |
| KotCzarny | but forgot about it | 04:19 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:19 |
| AStorm | :) | 04:19 |
| KotCzarny | btw. have you seen my xmms ? | 04:20 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:20 |
| KotCzarny | fixed dialog windows | 04:20 |
| AStorm | nah, no need for clutter on my N810 yet | 04:21 |
| KotCzarny | clutter? | 04:21 |
| KotCzarny | it's the best player you can get ;) | 04:21 |
| AStorm | next point is creating PL-programmer keyboard layout | 04:21 |
| AStorm | except canola | 04:21 |
| AStorm | :P | 04:21 |
| *** christefano has quit IRC | 04:22 | |
| KotCzarny | canola sucks too because of media library | 04:22 |
| AStorm | nah, no problem with it | 04:22 |
| KotCzarny | i hate media libraries | 04:22 |
| AStorm | I keep everything in one Music folder anyway | 04:22 |
| KotCzarny | at least current implementation | 04:23 |
| *** guardian has quit IRC | 04:23 | |
| AStorm | and it has tag collusion utility | 04:23 |
| milhouse | does canola work with tversity any more? | 04:23 |
| AStorm | with what? | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | No UPnP for the time being | 04:23 |
| milhouse | installed the latest canola but can't see my network media anymore | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | The plugin is still being worked on. | 04:23 |
| milhouse | GA: Ah thanks... wondered what was going on | 04:23 |
| AStorm | ah, nope | 04:23 |
| *** l7_ has joined #maemo | 04:23 | |
| AStorm | don't need that | 04:23 |
| *** guardian has joined #maemo | 04:24 | |
| *** WormFood has joined #maemo | 04:24 | |
| GeneralAntilles | milhouse, mediautils.garage.maemo.org :P | 04:24 |
| milhouse | interesting :) | 04:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pure win. | 04:25 |
| KotCzarny | astorm: does canola have effects plugins? | 04:25 |
| AStorm | not yet? | 04:25 |
| KotCzarny | hah. | 04:25 |
| AStorm | who needs tghat anyway | 04:25 |
| KotCzarny | <-- | 04:25 |
| AStorm | eq is for bad music | 04:25 |
| KotCzarny | not equ | 04:25 |
| AStorm | :P | 04:25 |
| KotCzarny | flanger, reverb | 04:25 |
| KotCzarny | for example | 04:25 |
| AStorm | yuck | 04:26 |
| KotCzarny | or voice removal :) | 04:26 |
| AStorm | double yuck | 04:26 |
| KotCzarny | important for .mods | 04:26 |
| AStorm | simple algorithms suck toom badly | 04:26 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:26 |
| KotCzarny | nope | 04:26 |
| KotCzarny | it's based on sox | 04:26 |
| AStorm | complex are too cpu intensive for N | 04:26 |
| KotCzarny | nope, works allright | 04:26 |
| AStorm | sox one is simple | 04:26 |
| KotCzarny | i disagree | 04:26 |
| AStorm | sometimes, maybe | 04:26 |
| AStorm | idk | 04:27 |
| AStorm | and idc | 04:27 |
| *** Vytas has quit IRC | 04:27 | |
| KotCzarny | on another news xcompmgr works out of the box | 04:28 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 04:28 |
| KotCzarny | shadows are nice | 04:28 |
| milhouse | Looks like the Nokia purchase of Navteq could hit the buffers due to EU regulators | 04:28 |
| WormFood | AStorm, which do you think is worse, ignorance or apathy? (I expect "idk and idc" as an answer) | 04:28 |
| KotCzarny | but software rendering is not enough | 04:28 |
| milhouse | http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/03/29/nokia-hits-eu-barrier-navteq | 04:28 |
| AStorm | WormFood: neither | 04:29 |
| milhouse | No idea what this could mean for internet tablets... not much probably? | 04:29 |
| AStorm | both are actually quite good | 04:29 |
| *** unique311 has joined #maemo | 04:29 | |
| KotCzarny | as long you're with nokia, hehe | 04:31 |
| *** unique311_ has joined #maemo | 04:32 | |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 04:32 | |
| *** unique311_ has quit IRC | 04:32 | |
| *** VRe has joined #maemo | 04:33 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 04:33 | |
| *** frade has quit IRC | 04:35 | |
| *** Vytas has joined #maemo | 04:38 | |
| *** tko has quit IRC | 04:40 | |
| *** achadwick has quit IRC | 04:42 | |
| *** achadwick has joined #maemo | 04:46 | |
| *** alextreme has quit IRC | 04:52 | |
| *** unique311 has quit IRC | 04:53 | |
| *** shackan has joined #maemo | 04:59 | |
| *** astro76 has joined #maemo | 05:01 | |
| *** slomo__ has joined #maemo | 05:01 | |
| arachnist | hi | 05:02 |
| arachnist | how to enable redpill mode on chinook? | 05:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | New repository entry | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | type "matrix" into the URL field | 05:03 |
| arachnist | i can't find the app catalogue | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | hit cancel | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | hit red | 05:03 |
| *** l7_ has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Application manager: Menu -> Tools | 05:04 |
| *** Tuco has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| arachnist | lol | 05:04 |
| * arachnist 's blind | 05:04 | |
| arachnist | couldn't find it earlier | 05:04 |
| *** herzi has joined #maemo | 05:08 | |
| *** slomo_ has quit IRC | 05:15 | |
| *** shacka1 has quit IRC | 05:20 | |
| KotCzarny | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/how_to_write_new_application_in_maemo_4-0.html | 05:22 |
| KotCzarny | this should go on the topic | 05:22 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 05:22 |
| *** celesteh_frackin has quit IRC | 05:25 | |
| *** herz1 has quit IRC | 05:25 | |
| *** christefano has joined #maemo | 05:33 | |
| *** matt_c has joined #maemo | 05:38 | |
| *** Vytas has quit IRC | 05:44 | |
| *** achadwick has quit IRC | 05:45 | |
| *** matt_c has quit IRC | 05:46 | |
| Brains | Hmm... No luck with tablet-encode... | 05:51 |
| arachnist | btw, is it just me, or is canola much more usable with fingers than with stylus? :> | 05:52 |
| Brains | Heh, yeah, does seem that way. | 05:52 |
| *** skibur has quit IRC | 05:52 | |
| *** guardian has quit IRC | 05:53 | |
| fysa | oo wow. | 05:53 |
| fysa | iPhone bootloader cracked, custom firmware loading | 05:54 |
| Navi | Woo | 05:54 |
| KotCzarny | whoo | 05:54 |
| fysa | maybe we will see maemo on iphone | 05:54 |
| fysa | ;) | 05:54 |
| fysa | (620mhz arm) | 05:54 |
| KotCzarny | drivers available? | 05:54 |
| fysa | *shrug* | 05:54 |
| arachnist | fysa: and 320x480 screen | 05:54 |
| Navi | arachnist, it's designed for finger use | 05:54 |
| arachnist | my damn se k800 has 320x240 | 05:54 |
| Navi | so stylus isn't that great | 05:55 |
| * Brains never thought about it much but would have assumed that being easy for fingers would mean easy for stylus too.... | 05:55 | |
| fysa | eh | 05:56 |
| arachnist | btw, it's kinda sad that i've used my se k800 for web for half a year now, and now it's just a bluetooth 3g modem | 05:56 |
| *** Fenix-Dark has joined #maemo | 05:57 | |
| Fenix-Dark | hey | 05:57 |
| Navi | heh | 05:57 |
| Fenix-Dark | whats the best/simplest way to convert videos for my n800 with linux or os x | 05:57 |
| Navi | I use ffmpeg | 05:58 |
| * Brains is trying out the new tablet-encode. | 05:58 | |
| Brains | Turns out it was the GUI that was hindering me, CLI is working fine so far. | 05:58 |
| Navi | ffmpeg -i <file> -vo mpeg4 -s 400x240 -b 1500k -ao lame <outputfile> | 05:58 |
| Navi | I'm probably missing a thing or two | 05:58 |
| *** LastLemming has quit IRC | 05:59 | |
| Navi | oh right, libmp3lame | 05:59 |
| Fenix-Dark | Navi, so whats the full line? | 05:59 |
| Navi | What's the full line of what? | 05:59 |
| Fenix-Dark | to convert it | 05:59 |
| Fenix-Dark | you said you were missing something | 05:59 |
| *** vcgomes has joined #maemo | 05:59 | |
| Navi | _probably_ missing, as in I probably left something out that I don't remember | 06:00 |
| Fenix-Dark | ok | 06:00 |
| *** Blain has joined #maemo | 06:02 | |
| Fenix-Dark | Navi, says unrecognized option '-vo' | 06:03 |
| Brains | Probably should have been -vc and -ac. | 06:03 |
| Fenix-Dark | ok | 06:03 |
| * Brains doesn't use it though. | 06:03 | |
| Brains | (mencoder uses ac and vc.) | 06:03 |
| Navi | sorry, -vcodec | 06:03 |
| Navi | -vcodec and -acodec | 06:04 |
| Fenix-Dark | ok | 06:04 |
| Navi | I don't like mencoder's documentation very much | 06:04 |
| Navi | only reason I don't use it | 06:04 |
| Fenix-Dark | now, Unknown encoder 'lame' | 06:04 |
| Navi | [21:56:32] <Navi> oh right, libmp3lame | 06:04 |
| Fenix-Dark | same deal | 06:05 |
| Navi | have lame installed? | 06:05 |
| Navi | your ffmpeg built with lame enabled? | 06:05 |
| Fenix-Dark | Navi, not sure | 06:05 |
| Navi | ffmpeg -formats | 06:06 |
| Brains | This first try at a tablet-encode run (--770, default everything else) isn't too bad at all... | 06:07 |
| Navi | tablet-encode just uses mencoder, doesn't it? | 06:08 |
| Brains | I believe so, yeah. I'm mostly using it for the existing presets/options... Like --770. | 06:09 |
| Navi | I have aliases | 06:09 |
| Navi | :D | 06:09 |
| Brains | Which only works if you know what the desired settings are... | 06:11 |
| Navi | well, I do >_> | 06:11 |
| Navi | Last I read, tablet-encode's profile settings are designed for media player (not to confuse with mplayer) | 06:12 |
| lcuk | navi, why do i get the feeling you are goin "nerrr enrrrrr" at your screen right now? | 06:12 |
| Brains | lol | 06:12 |
| Navi | lcuk, hehe | 06:12 |
| Navi | If anything, I'd be going "Hey! Listen!" | 06:12 |
| Brains | After that first test run (gee, it worked that time), I am running it again with the mplayer preset. If I like the output, I'll snag the options from the code. | 06:13 |
| Navi | It has an mplayer preset now? Woo | 06:13 |
| *** VRe__ has joined #maemo | 06:13 | |
| arachnist | btw, is there a way to make the normal media player play .flac, or will i have to use mplayer for that? | 06:14 |
| lcuk | brains, thats basically it - different people have different favorites. some people put up with glitches in a low bitrate encode, others make different compromises, just pick something which works and adjust it till you are happy | 06:14 |
| Brains | "They're certainly pushed as high as they can be. v2.18 re-introduces the "mplayer" preset which really pushes the envelope (and has a higher bitrate than most TV episodes you can find on the *cough* Internet)." | 06:14 |
| Brains | lcuk: Yep, already in progress. | 06:14 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, mplayer, good stuff | 06:15 |
| * Brains hasn't moved to tackle FLAC yet... But that is what his music is ripped as. (N810 NFS mounting the home server... Gotta love the teeny tablet with a terabyte backing it.) | 06:15 | |
| Navi | Heh | 06:16 |
| Navi | I use mpd to play my flacs | 06:16 |
| *** achadwick has joined #maemo | 06:16 | |
| Navi | Hey look, someone noticed the entire channel earlier | 06:17 |
| Brains | ? | 06:17 |
| Fenix-Dark | Brains, is it easy to mount a (or a few) samba shares to the n800? | 06:17 |
| Brains | Fenix-Dark: Dunno, haven't looked at samba on the N8x0s... NFS was trivial though... | 06:18 |
| Navi | Fenix-Dark, dunno. The N800 detects the windows file shares on my network | 06:18 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, unhildonized app area ix 720x430 | 06:18 |
| Fenix-Dark | Navi, automatically? | 06:18 |
| Navi | I certainly didn't configure it | 06:19 |
| Fenix-Dark | cool | 06:19 |
| Brains | Anybody happen to know if there are any issues with setting up the SDK under amd64 machines? I seem to recall hearing something about that but I can't find mention of where I heard that in my notes. | 06:21 |
| *** Tama^2 has quit IRC | 06:21 | |
| *** leandroal has joined #maemo | 06:23 | |
| Fenix-Dark | hrm | 06:25 |
| Fenix-Dark | i see my samba shares, but it didnt ask for a username/pass, and it shows the shares as being empty | 06:25 |
| *** VRe has quit IRC | 06:26 | |
| *** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo | 06:35 | |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 06:36 | |
| *** Grackle has quit IRC | 06:39 | |
| *** Grackle has joined #maemo | 06:40 | |
| *** christefano has quit IRC | 06:41 | |
| *** vivijim has quit IRC | 06:48 | |
| *** grape has joined #maemo | 06:48 | |
| *** grape has left #maemo | 06:50 | |
| *** grape has joined #maemo | 06:50 | |
| *** vivijim has joined #maemo | 06:51 | |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 06:51 | |
| *** Fenix-Dark has quit IRC | 06:52 | |
| *** christefano has joined #maemo | 06:54 | |
| *** eton_ has joined #maemo | 06:57 | |
| *** vlad_ has joined #maemo | 06:57 | |
| vlad_ | heya, is gcc 4.2 (or something more recent than the 3.4.4 2005 special) available anywhere by chance? | 06:58 |
| KotCzarny | yes | 06:58 |
| KotCzarny | http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm | 06:58 |
| vlad_ | mmm, any debs available? | 06:59 |
| KotCzarny | probably | 06:59 |
| vlad_ | I guess it doesn't much matter, I can just symlink | 06:59 |
| * vlad_ asks google | 06:59 | |
| *** achadwick has quit IRC | 06:59 | |
| KotCzarny | http://scratchbox.org/~jhakala/unofficial/ | 07:00 |
| KotCzarny | here you will probably have them packaged for scratchbox | 07:00 |
| vlad_ | oh hey, yeah, just figured out that 'scratchbox-toolchain' is what I was looking for | 07:01 |
| vlad_ | awesome, thank you! | 07:01 |
| KotCzarny | let me know how it went | 07:01 |
| KotCzarny | i'm thinking about gcc 4.x too | 07:01 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:01 |
| vlad_ | will do | 07:04 |
| vlad_ | we have some code that gcc 3.4.4 utterly fails on, generates multiple labels with the same name in the assembly output with -O2 | 07:04 |
| KotCzarny | what about other -O levels? | 07:05 |
| vlad_ | works with -Os | 07:05 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:05 |
| vlad_ | but looks like my apt repos were all set up, so just installing scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-{arm6,i486} grabs the right things | 07:05 |
| *** eton has quit IRC | 07:07 | |
| *** oska1 has left #maemo | 07:10 | |
| *** oska1 has joined #maemo | 07:11 | |
| *** oska1 has left #maemo | 07:11 | |
| *** curl_e has joined #maemo | 07:14 | |
| *** vivijim has quit IRC | 07:22 | |
| *** tigrux has joined #maemo | 07:23 | |
| *** vivijim has joined #maemo | 07:26 | |
| *** christefano has quit IRC | 07:29 | |
| *** achadwick has joined #maemo | 07:31 | |
| *** mbuf has joined #maemo | 07:37 | |
| *** Italodance has joined #maemo | 07:42 | |
| *** amrileria has joined #maemo | 07:44 | |
| Italodance | hi guys | 07:52 |
| curl_e | italodance: Hi. I think everyone is lurking in here. I came to see about audio apps - timidity, hydrogen etc. | 07:54 |
| *** Fenix-Dark has joined #maemo | 07:56 | |
| Fenix-Dark | hi | 07:56 |
| Fenix-Dark | i still cant seem to figure out how i'm supposed to enter a user name and password to samba shares on my n800 in os2008, anyone care to enlighten me? | 07:56 |
| *** Sho_ has quit IRC | 07:58 | |
| curl_e | Fenix-Dark: sorry, I can't help. What are you using as the samba client? the file manager? | 07:59 |
| *** briand has quit IRC | 07:59 | |
| Fenix-Dark | curl_e, i'm trying to use the file manager | 07:59 |
| *** briand has joined #maemo | 07:59 | |
| Fenix-Dark | it shows the computer with the samba shares, and it lists all of the samba shares, but it shows them as being empty, which they are not, but it didnt ask for any user name or password | 07:59 |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #maemo | 08:03 | |
| vlad_ | argh, I am a scratchbox newb | 08:05 |
| vlad_ | is there any way to just swap the compiler for the existing CHINOOK_ARMEL target? | 08:05 |
| vlad_ | if I try sb-conf st -c cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm6, sb-conf yells at me that target CHINOOK_ARMEL already exists | 08:06 |
| KotCzarny | add new target | 08:06 |
| KotCzarny | use sb-menu | 08:06 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:06 |
| vlad_ | hmm | 08:06 |
| vlad_ | will adding a new target keep the rest of my setup intact? | 08:07 |
| KotCzarny | or if you want to switch compiler only you can reconfigure target | 08:07 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 08:07 |
| KotCzarny | that's the reason behind scratchbox | 08:07 |
| KotCzarny | add new target/nothing changes for old | 08:07 |
| vlad_ | yeah, but I mean I want to add a new target that uses the same on-disk files as the old, just a different compiler | 08:07 |
| KotCzarny | then you will need rootstrap too, probably | 08:08 |
| KotCzarny | i think swapping compiler is easier | 08:08 |
| KotCzarny | let's see | 08:08 |
| * KotCzarny is sb n00b too | 08:08 | |
| vlad_ | hm, I may have broken things! let's see | 08:09 |
| *** Grackle has quit IRC | 08:09 | |
| KotCzarny | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/chinook/armel/ | 08:09 |
| KotCzarny | rootstraps here | 08:09 |
| KotCzarny | and there | 08:10 |
| KotCzarny | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/chinook/i386/ | 08:10 |
| *** blassey_ has joined #maemo | 08:14 | |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 08:14 | |
| vlad_ | hrm | 08:19 |
| vlad_ | I think this worked? | 08:19 |
| KotCzarny | which one? | 08:19 |
| KotCzarny | [sbox-m: ~] > gcc -v | 08:19 |
| KotCzarny | gcc version 4.2.1 (CodeSourcery Sourcery G++ Lite 2007q3-51) | 08:19 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:19 |
| KotCzarny | i'm downloading rootstrap still | 08:20 |
| vlad_ | I didn't tell it to install a rootstrap | 08:20 |
| vlad_ | or install any files etc. | 08:20 |
| vlad_ | since I already had an existing target set up | 08:20 |
| KotCzarny | i prefer new target | 08:20 |
| *** b0unc3_ has quit IRC | 08:20 | |
| *** vcgomes has quit IRC | 08:22 | |
| *** briand has quit IRC | 08:24 | |
| *** briand has joined #maemo | 08:24 | |
| *** bradd has quit IRC | 08:26 | |
| *** MagicFab has joined #maemo | 08:31 | |
| *** kcome has joined #maemo | 08:36 | |
| *** Zetx|n800 has joined #maemo | 08:39 | |
| vlad_ | hrm, spoke too soon | 08:42 |
| KotCzarny | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.0.1/INSTALL.txt | 08:42 |
| *** Zetx|n800 has quit IRC | 08:42 | |
| KotCzarny | this one is helpfull | 08:42 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 08:42 |
| vlad_ | any binary that I build, when I try to run it.. ./foo: error while loading shared libraries: libc.so.6: cannot enable executable stack as shared object requires: Invalid argument | 08:42 |
| KotCzarny | point 3.2 | 08:42 |
| KotCzarny | hum | 08:43 |
| KotCzarny | mismatched libs? | 08:43 |
| *** Grackle has joined #maemo | 08:43 | |
| vlad_ | oh, I may have had the wrong devkits installed | 08:44 |
| vlad_ | yep, all fixed looks like | 08:45 |
| *** bradd has joined #maemo | 08:46 | |
| *** shackan has quit IRC | 08:47 | |
| *** curl_e has quit IRC | 08:50 | |
| *** briand has quit IRC | 08:51 | |
| vlad_ | almost all fixed | 08:52 |
| vlad_ | this new gcc seems wonky | 08:52 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 08:57 |
| KotCzarny | how have you solved that 'invalid argument' error? | 08:57 |
| *** Zic has joined #maemo | 08:58 | |
| vlad_ | I sb-conf in -c -e -F | 08:58 |
| vlad_ | (install clibrary, etc, fakeroot) | 08:58 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 08:58 |
| vlad_ | but I installed the gcc toolchain from whatever repo I had in here | 08:58 |
| vlad_ | I'm grabbing the toolchain deb from the scratchbox.org url you gave me | 08:58 |
| vlad_ | hm, yeah, I had the main scratchbox repo, that should be valid | 09:03 |
| *** RST38h has joined #maemo | 09:03 | |
| vlad_ | but the gcc is showing that it still has a bug that was fixed in gcc 4.1 | 09:03 |
| KotCzarny | i have installed gcc from debian.org | 09:03 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:03 |
| vlad_ | and it's also showing weirdness, like that it doesn't follow the c++ standard for temporary object destructor order | 09:03 |
| vlad_ | which is pretty broken | 09:03 |
| RST38h | Gentlemen, does anyone have a maemo sdk installation where they can run stuff on a desktop machine and see messages from hildon-navigator? | 09:04 |
| *** achadwick has quit IRC | 09:09 | |
| vlad_ | ah! the compiler form the unofficial dir seems to work | 09:11 |
| *** achadwick has joined #maemo | 09:11 | |
| *** WormFood has quit IRC | 09:12 | |
| vlad_ | .. maybe | 09:13 |
| vlad_ | sigh | 09:13 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:13 |
| *** gopi has joined #maemo | 09:15 | |
| *** lasantha_1978 has joined #maemo | 09:19 | |
| lasantha_1978 | Dear All, Pls tell me the way of unstalling list fo package in a file using rpm command? Eg I ahev tried rpm -e --nodeps <package_list_file But it is not working. Pls help me | 09:19 |
| KotCzarny | rpm? | 09:19 |
| KotCzarny | you can try: for each in `cat package_list_file`; do rpm -e --nodeps $each; done | 09:20 |
| vlad_ | rpm -e --nodeps `cat package_list_file` should work too | 09:21 |
| KotCzarny | i don't know rpm :) | 09:21 |
| *** RST38h has quit IRC | 09:25 | |
| arachnist | btw, does anyone know some small, x86_64 linux livecd? something like systemrescuecd, but with x86_64 kernel | 09:25 |
| *** philipl has joined #maemo | 09:29 | |
| vlad_ | maybe I need to upgrade my entire scratchbox install | 09:31 |
| vlad_ | what could go wrong? | 09:31 |
| KotCzarny | mismatched libs | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | my guess | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | i can't compile mc | 09:32 |
| *** trbs has quit IRC | 09:33 | |
| *** rlaager has joined #maemo | 09:33 | |
| KotCzarny | this time because of libglib2 barfing with the same error | 09:34 |
| vlad_ | could be, though that doesn't make sense | 09:34 |
| vlad_ | the ABI is still the same | 09:34 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 09:34 |
| *** achadwick has quit IRC | 09:34 | |
| KotCzarny | then why we had this error with libc earlier? | 09:35 |
| vlad_ | not sure | 09:35 |
| vlad_ | maybe libc wasn't installed at all? | 09:35 |
| *** rlaager has quit IRC | 09:35 | |
| KotCzarny | gcc wouldn't run then | 09:35 |
| vlad_ | true | 09:35 |
| vlad_ | I should try going back to the old compiler, see if things still cause problems | 09:36 |
| KotCzarny | i have luckily created new target | 09:36 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 09:36 |
| vlad_ | yeah yeah :p | 09:36 |
| zuh | vlad_: I think it *should* work if you give sb-conf -c "the finger" (-f) ;) | 09:38 |
| KotCzarny | qemu: Unsupported syscall: 338 | 09:39 |
| KotCzarny | hu | 09:39 |
| KotCzarny | m | 09:39 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 09:41 |
| KotCzarny | i think i should use qemu-cvs | 09:41 |
| KotCzarny | http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2007-October/000351.html | 09:41 |
| Italodance | :D | 09:52 |
| Italodance | xmms can play only with x-term? | 09:52 |
| KotCzarny | no | 09:52 |
| *** ssvb has joined #maemo | 09:53 | |
| Italodance | KotCzarny but it hadn't any icon on my menu>? | 09:54 |
| *** lasantha_1978 has quit IRC | 09:55 | |
| Italodance | i installed http://debfarm.free.fr/pool/xmms_1.2.10+20070601-1-maemo.2.n800_armel.deb | 09:55 |
| KotCzarny | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11892 | 09:56 |
| Italodance | i know but dud u installed? | 09:57 |
| Italodance | did u installed it? | 09:57 |
| KotCzarny | i compiled my own version | 09:57 |
| KotCzarny | and read that thread | 09:57 |
| KotCzarny | there are answers to your questions | 09:57 |
| Italodance | ok | 09:57 |
| *** bilboed has quit IRC | 09:57 | |
| Italodance | just what's ur version? | 09:58 |
| KotCzarny | 1.2.11 | 09:59 |
| *** AD-N770 has joined #maemo | 09:59 | |
| *** Fenix-Dark has quit IRC | 10:01 | |
| *** gopi has quit IRC | 10:01 | |
| *** achadwick has joined #maemo | 10:02 | |
| *** rlaager has joined #maemo | 10:09 | |
| *** AD-N770 has quit IRC | 10:09 | |
| *** murrayc_ has joined #maemo | 10:15 | |
| Italodance | ok i called to the official nokia house in iran and told them about my problem they will help me and will say to the Nokia! | 10:22 |
| Italodance | :D | 10:22 |
| *** Sho_ has joined #maemo | 10:26 | |
| *** vivijim has quit IRC | 10:31 | |
| *** vivijim has joined #maemo | 10:34 | |
| *** jkyro has joined #maemo | 10:37 | |
| *** Cptnodegard has joined #maemo | 10:40 | |
| *** VimSi has joined #maemo | 10:43 | |
| *** VimS has quit IRC | 10:44 | |
| *** tko has joined #maemo | 10:44 | |
| *** murrayc_ has quit IRC | 10:49 | |
| *** achadwick has quit IRC | 10:58 | |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 11:01 |
| KotCzarny | i think i have found a way to bring back windows :> | 11:02 |
| KotCzarny | those not-hildonized-and-minimized | 11:02 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 11:02 |
| *** briand has joined #maemo | 11:03 | |
| *** eichi has joined #maemo | 11:13 | |
| *** tko has quit IRC | 11:17 | |
| *** tko has joined #maemo | 11:17 | |
| *** briand has quit IRC | 11:21 | |
| *** juergbi has joined #maemo | 11:22 | |
| *** cmarcelo has quit IRC | 11:24 | |
| *** leandroal has quit IRC | 11:24 | |
| *** Navi has quit IRC | 11:27 | |
| *** qwerty12 has joined #maemo | 11:27 | |
| *** briand has joined #maemo | 11:28 | |
| *** achadwick has joined #maemo | 11:36 | |
| qwerty12 | KotCzarny, I see you changed your signature at ITT lol :p :D :) | 11:41 |
| Italodance | hello qwerty12 morning :D | 11:41 |
| qwerty12 | Hello Italodance :) | 11:41 |
| *** MagicFab has quit IRC | 11:43 | |
| *** RST38h has joined #maemo | 11:43 | |
| *** blassey_ has quit IRC | 11:43 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 11:44 | |
| *** briand has quit IRC | 11:45 | |
| *** giskard_ is now known as giskard | 11:46 | |
| *** solmumaha has joined #maemo | 11:48 | |
| vlad_ | argh | 11:50 |
| *** briand has joined #maemo | 11:51 | |
| *** achadwick has quit IRC | 11:58 | |
| *** cLin has joined #maemo | 12:00 | |
| *** X-Fade_ has joined #maemo | 12:00 | |
| *** achadwick has joined #maemo | 12:00 | |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:04 |
| qwerty12 | Morning | 12:04 |
| * qwerty12 yawns | 12:04 | |
| *** ssvb has quit IRC | 12:05 | |
| KotCzarny | anyone familiar with pygtk? | 12:06 |
| *** WormFood has joined #maemo | 12:07 | |
| *** t_s_o has joined #maemo | 12:10 | |
| *** X-Fade has quit IRC | 12:16 | |
| *** vivijim has left #maemo | 12:17 | |
| *** achadwick has quit IRC | 12:18 | |
| *** achadwick has joined #maemo | 12:30 | |
| *** blassey_ has joined #maemo | 12:44 | |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 12:45 | |
| *** matt_c has joined #maemo | 12:46 | |
| *** red-zack has joined #maemo | 12:53 | |
| *** tko has quit IRC | 12:54 | |
| *** tko has joined #maemo | 12:54 | |
| *** geaaru has joined #maemo | 13:01 | |
| *** sbaturzio has joined #maemo | 13:04 | |
| *** briand has quit IRC | 13:07 | |
| *** briand has joined #maemo | 13:08 | |
| *** qwerty12 has quit IRC | 13:08 | |
| *** matt_c_ has joined #maemo | 13:09 | |
| *** matt_c has quit IRC | 13:09 | |
| *** achadwick has left #maemo | 13:13 | |
| *** LastLemming has joined #maemo | 13:13 | |
| *** fab has joined #maemo | 13:16 | |
| *** jprieur has joined #maemo | 13:22 | |
| *** qwerty12 has joined #maemo | 13:25 | |
| *** mbuf has quit IRC | 13:27 | |
| *** Navi has joined #maemo | 13:27 | |
| *** playya has quit IRC | 13:30 | |
| *** playya has joined #maemo | 13:33 | |
| *** muu has joined #maemo | 13:36 | |
| *** ch4os_ has joined #maemo | 13:43 | |
| *** frade has joined #maemo | 13:52 | |
| Italodance | umm n95 has wlan? | 14:08 |
| glass | yes | 14:08 |
| Italodance | damn it | 14:08 |
| glass | whats there to damn | 14:09 |
| Italodance | which nokia phones has wireless? | 14:09 |
| glass | quite many | 14:09 |
| Italodance | i thought only internet tablet for nokia | 14:09 |
| glass | Italodance: http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/matrix_wlan_1.html | 14:10 |
| glass | then you're so out of loop it's not even funny | 14:10 |
| Italodance | hehe yes | 14:10 |
| Italodance | lol | 14:10 |
| *** MishaS has joined #maemo | 14:10 | |
| glass | tablet is very different from other nokia products though | 14:10 |
| glass | it's not a phone, and the wlan phones run symbian | 14:10 |
| Italodance | yes tablet is a pocket laptop | 14:11 |
| *** BabelO has joined #maemo | 14:11 | |
| Italodance | http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N800 | 14:13 |
| Italodance | :D | 14:13 |
| *** eichi has quit IRC | 14:15 | |
| Italodance | glass | 14:16 |
| Italodance | do u have FBReader? | 14:16 |
| glass | on my 770 | 14:17 |
| Italodance | can it read pdf files? | 14:17 |
| Italodance | well i couldn't read on my n800 !??? | 14:17 |
| *** sp3000 has joined #maemo | 14:18 | |
| glass | dunno | 14:18 |
| *** f_mohr has quit IRC | 14:18 | |
| Italodance | ok | 14:18 |
| *** sp3000 has quit IRC | 14:19 | |
| *** sp3000 has joined #maemo | 14:19 | |
| *** RST38h has quit IRC | 14:19 | |
| *** sp3001 has joined #maemo | 14:19 | |
| *** sp3000 has quit IRC | 14:20 | |
| *** sp3001 is now known as sp3000 | 14:20 | |
| *** behdad has joined #maemo | 14:21 | |
| *** qwerty12 has quit IRC | 14:23 | |
| *** tko_ has joined #maemo | 14:24 | |
| *** kcome has quit IRC | 14:26 | |
| *** kcome has joined #maemo | 14:27 | |
| *** AStorm has quit IRC | 14:28 | |
| *** hugolp has joined #maemo | 14:29 | |
| MishaS | Italodance, fbreader does not support pdf | 14:32 |
| pupnik_ | pdf is dog barf | 14:39 |
| *** pH5 has joined #maemo | 14:40 | |
| pupnik_ | postscript around 1991 wasn't so bad | 14:40 |
| *** webustany has joined #maemo | 14:41 | |
| webustany | hi there | 14:41 |
| webustany | has someone here managed to use scratchbox on a x86_64 arch ? | 14:41 |
| *** muu_ has joined #maemo | 14:43 | |
| *** tko has quit IRC | 14:44 | |
| *** qwerty12 has joined #maemo | 14:48 | |
| keesj | webustany: via vmplayer yes | 14:49 |
| keesj | I did not try the other ways | 14:49 |
| webustany | keesj: hmmm, thanks for the answer but unfortunately I'm running a very recent kernel, not supported by vmware yet | 14:49 |
| *** Fenix-Dark has joined #maemo | 14:57 | |
| *** muu has quit IRC | 15:02 | |
| Jaffa | webustany: use the normal instructions but do 'setarch i386 ./installer.sh' at the start. | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | It then all works fine. | 15:04 |
| webustany | Jaffa: at the start of what ? | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | The install process of the Maemo SDK | 15:05 |
| webustany | ok, and that will work with a 64 bits kernel | 15:06 |
| webustany | Jaffa: thanks for the tip, I'm gonna try that | 15:06 |
| *** qwerty12 has quit IRC | 15:06 | |
| Jaffa | See section 2.1 of http://repository.maemo.org/stable/chinook/INSTALL.txt, but instead of doing sudo ./maemo-scratchbox-install_4.0.1.sh do sudo setarch i386 ./maemo-scratchbox-install_4.0.1.sh | 15:06 |
| Jaffa | Works for me with no 32-bit chroot | 15:06 |
| webustany | Jaffa: OK, you're using debian or ubuntu I assume | 15:07 |
| Jaffa | Ubuntu Feisty | 15:09 |
| *** Spakman has quit IRC | 15:09 | |
| webustany | Jaffa: I'll need a changeroot anyway since I run fedora, but at least I know what chroot to install | 15:10 |
| *** muu has joined #maemo | 15:11 | |
| *** muu_ has quit IRC | 15:12 | |
| Jaffa | Install script's supposed to work on non-Debian-based systems AIUI | 15:16 |
| *** Vytas has joined #maemo | 15:19 | |
| *** crashanddie has joined #maemo | 15:19 | |
| *** BabelO has quit IRC | 15:24 | |
| crashanddie | how I go about installing the maemo hackers repo in scratchbox ? I've added it to the /etc/apt/sources.list, but I don't have gpg installed, so it refuses to access it | 15:25 |
| *** Fenix-Dark has quit IRC | 15:31 | |
| *** MishaS has quit IRC | 15:34 | |
| *** dneary has joined #maemo | 15:37 | |
| *** muu has quit IRC | 15:41 | |
| *** alextreme has joined #maemo | 15:41 | |
| *** muu has joined #maemo | 15:44 | |
| *** krau has quit IRC | 15:52 | |
| *** pvanhoof has joined #maemo | 15:53 | |
| webustany | crashanddie: isn't there an install file for it ? | 15:54 |
| webustany | on http://www.gronmayer.com/it | 15:54 |
| *** BabelO has joined #maemo | 15:56 | |
| *** hugolp has quit IRC | 15:59 | |
| *** hugolp has joined #maemo | 15:59 | |
| *** hugolp has quit IRC | 16:01 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 16:03 | |
| *** blassey_ has quit IRC | 16:03 | |
| *** hugolp has joined #maemo | 16:03 | |
| *** christefano has joined #maemo | 16:04 | |
| *** hugolp has quit IRC | 16:04 | |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 16:04 | |
| *** webustany has quit IRC | 16:04 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 16:05 | |
| *** dneary has quit IRC | 16:10 | |
| *** webustany has joined #maemo | 16:17 | |
| *** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik | 16:23 | |
| *** NetBlade has joined #maemo | 16:26 | |
| webustany | hmm, maemo-launcher is constantly eating 100% of my cpu, I don't know why | 16:33 |
| aquatix | webustany: depends on the program it launched | 16:34 |
| aquatix | you can try getting more information by launching the terminal and run `top' | 16:34 |
| *** WormFood has quit IRC | 16:35 | |
| webustany | aquatix: hmm good guess, actually it's modest eating all my cpu | 16:35 |
| webustany | ah ah, now it's that stupid crawler :) | 16:36 |
| webustany | though it's run with -c /home/user/MyDocs | 16:37 |
| webustany | and -n | 16:37 |
| crashanddie | I'm starting a depression, it's on my to do list | 16:42 |
| webustany | crashanddie: still on your repo problem ? | 16:44 |
| *** jeff1f has joined #maemo | 16:44 | |
| crashanddie | not a repo problem | 16:45 |
| *** christefano has quit IRC | 16:45 | |
| crashanddie | dependency issues | 16:45 |
| *** christefano has joined #maemo | 16:45 | |
| webustany | crashanddie: can you explain more in detail ? | 16:46 |
| *** MangoFusion has joined #maemo | 16:46 | |
| crashanddie | webustany, I'm trying to get commoncpp2 to compile with all its dependencies, but it needs libgnutls, which exists, but its dependencies aren't there, etc, etc | 16:47 |
| webustany | crashanddie: I see... libgnutls is in some repo right ? | 16:48 |
| webustany | maemo extras maybe... | 16:48 |
| webustany | don't remember | 16:48 |
| crashanddie | found it | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | extra-devel | 16:50 |
| *** ustunozgur has joined #maemo | 16:51 | |
| *** shackan has joined #maemo | 16:56 | |
| crashanddie | Ok, so I managed to build commoncpp2, finally, perfectly working and everything :) | 17:03 |
| webustany | crashanddie: you want to compile apps directly on your target ? | 17:03 |
| *** Grackle has quit IRC | 17:03 | |
| *** denny has joined #maemo | 17:03 | |
| crashanddie | webustany, I'm working in scratchbox | 17:03 |
| webustany | crashanddie: ah ok :) | 17:03 |
| *** christefano has quit IRC | 17:06 | |
| *** geaaru has quit IRC | 17:09 | |
| *** geaaru has joined #maemo | 17:09 | |
| crashanddie | is it a 100% necessary to build both the x86 and armel versions of a package ? | 17:10 |
| *** denny has quit IRC | 17:13 | |
| *** RP has quit IRC | 17:13 | |
| *** denny has joined #maemo | 17:13 | |
| johnx | crashanddie, not necessary at all | 17:13 |
| crashanddie | johnx, because some dependencies aren't available in the x86 version ... | 17:14 |
| johnx | I've never built an x86 package | 17:14 |
| johnx | (in scratchbox) | 17:14 |
| crashanddie | fair enough then | 17:14 |
| crashanddie | johnx, also, I've noticed a lot of packages have maemo in their names, is it a bad thing if I don't respect that ? | 17:15 |
| johnx | From what I understand, they just use it as a part of the version string to differentiate it from a non-maemo build of the same package | 17:16 |
| johnx | I'm not 100% sure on that though... | 17:17 |
| crashanddie | johnx, yeah, but for example, libs are not maemo dependent, it's just compiled for armel, which is specific enough | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | well, I'll see, if something goes awry, they'll scream I guess | 17:18 |
| *** MagicFab has joined #maemo | 17:19 | |
| *** geaaru_ has joined #maemo | 17:26 | |
| *** BabelO has quit IRC | 17:31 | |
| *** christefano has joined #maemo | 17:32 | |
| *** BabelO has joined #maemo | 17:33 | |
| *** NetBlade has quit IRC | 17:33 | |
| jani | not really related to the channel topic but is sc[1;3Chema required for writing into a new path in gconf tree ? | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | sc[1;3Chema ? | 17:39 |
| johnx | schema I assume? | 17:40 |
| jani | yep. schema | 17:41 |
| jani | eg myapp.schemas file. wondering if its necessery or not.. few tutorials i went thru didnt mention anything either way - just how to read/write into gconf | 17:42 |
| *** BabelO has quit IRC | 17:44 | |
| *** geaaru has quit IRC | 17:44 | |
| *** BabelO has joined #maemo | 17:46 | |
| crashanddie | johnx, do you now how long it usually takes before seeing the changes on the repo ? After upload I mean ? | 17:46 |
| johnx | no idea about uploading to the repo... | 17:46 |
| johnx | ah, was your question about x86 packages with regards to for uploading something? Hmm, I'm not sure about that, then... | 17:48 |
| johnx | hope I haven't steered you wrong... | 17:48 |
| crashanddie | johnx, lol | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | johnx, yeah, sorta :P | 17:49 |
| johnx | sorry :( | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | heh | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | well, anyway, I'm not the first, tons of packages that are missing from x86 | 17:50 |
| *** megabyte405 has joined #maemo | 17:50 | |
| johnx | though if the deps aren't there to build the x86 package I'm not sure what you're supposed to do about it... | 17:50 |
| crashanddie | like I said, I'll start doing it if I ever get around it | 17:51 |
| johnx | oooh, midori for OS2008. neat. :D | 17:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a crapgasm compared to MicroB right now. | 17:52 |
| johnx | interesting | 17:53 |
| johnx | I have on test I really need to try though | 17:53 |
| johnx | and IMNSO, webkit has a lot more potential than gecko in the embedded space... | 17:54 |
| aquatix | +H | 17:55 |
| dtahtbot | aquatix: Error: "H" is not a valid command. | 17:55 |
| aquatix | dtahtbot: shut it ;) | 17:55 |
| dtahtbot | aquatix: Error: "shut" is not a valid command. | 17:55 |
| aquatix | ... | 17:55 |
| johnx | ahahaha | 17:55 |
| aquatix | stupid bot :) | 17:55 |
| johnx | you shore showed it though... :D | 17:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably, but potential takes work. | 17:56 |
| Navi | johnx, the problem with microb was that it lacks NIT-specific optimizations | 17:56 |
| *** luizirber has joined #maemo | 17:57 | |
| *** ustunozgur has quit IRC | 17:57 | |
| aquatix | Navi: NIT? | 17:57 |
| Navi | when I was last running browser benches, the nightly xulrunner ran better than webkit did | 17:57 |
| johnx | Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't webkit smaller then gecko to begin with? | 17:57 |
| * Jaffa still gets impressed with some of the features on Mobile Safari to take advantage of zooming in with knowledge of the page's semantic structure. | 17:57 | |
| Jaffa | Less of a need on 800x480, admittedly | 17:58 |
| Navi | Gecko had old memory issues to deal with; don't know if they're still around | 17:58 |
| Navi | aquatix, nokia internet tablet | 17:58 |
| aquatix | oh duh :) | 17:58 |
| keesj | I dislike old memories | 17:59 |
| johnx | keesj, let me tell you about our amnesia program then, for three easy payments of... | 17:59 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, ah, curiosity satisfied. Google maps "feels" faster to me under midori (or epiphany-webkit) than microb already | 17:59 |
| MangoFusion | the best mobile browser i have used so far is webkit on my n95. in second place is microb ;) | 18:00 |
| keesj | :p | 18:00 |
| Navi | both the nightly xulrunner and the current libwebkit in the repos (which happen to be a bit out of date) are snappy on the N8X0 though | 18:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Gecko build in MicroB is old. | 18:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully Diablo will rectify thatt. | 18:00 |
| keesj | wasn't opera a little faster on the n800? | 18:01 |
| Navi | johnx, in terms of script execution speed, xulrunner raped the unoptimized webkit javascript core. | 18:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | A little without the CPU boost, but it didn't work with anything. | 18:01 |
| johnx | keesj, yes. some people liked it, others like microb better. | 18:01 |
| johnx | it all comes down to what sites you visit and what you value in a mobile browser | 18:02 |
| keesj | like is an other thing :p . I like the microbs because they are open source. | 18:02 |
| * keesj was talking aboud speed | 18:02 | |
| aquatix | microbes surf nicely | 18:02 |
| jott | keesj: then give me the source of tablet-browser-ui :P | 18:02 |
| Navi | :) | 18:02 |
| Navi | microb has horrible performance. | 18:03 |
| johnx | actually, that's the other reason I'm excited to see a hildonized midori. :D | 18:03 |
| jott | ah hildonized.. compiled midori a while back and it was quite unusable ... | 18:04 |
| Navi | johnx, I want to see alp and co. do a few more optimizations (especially to the javascript core) first | 18:04 |
| johnx | Navi, definitely, but the fact that it works so well already makes me very happy | 18:04 |
| Navi | Not as well as xulrunner :) | 18:05 |
| johnx | which is hildonized and launching nicely from a menu? :P | 18:05 |
| Navi | No, but neither is libwebkit | 18:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why the hell did they close tablet-browser, anyway? | 18:05 |
| Navi | GeneralAntilles, fear | 18:05 |
| jott | GeneralAntilles: nokias new policy to interact better with the oss community :P | 18:06 |
| Navi | xulrunner's script execution speed was half the time of webkit's, which was a fourth of the time of microb's | 18:06 |
| johnx | O_o | 18:06 |
| johnx | ahaha | 18:06 |
| johnx | wow | 18:07 |
| johnx | no small wonder google maps is sooo painfully slow in microb | 18:07 |
| Navi | Still doesn't get near the times of desktops, but I don't expect that | 18:08 |
| johnx | yeah, but it's the difference between unusable and usable | 18:08 |
| jott | hehe well ff3/webkit on n8x0 could beat ff2 on the desktop :P | 18:08 |
| aquatix | :) | 18:08 |
| aquatix | i thought microb already used the ff3 engine? [gecko 1.9] | 18:09 |
| jott | aquatix: very old snapshot | 18:09 |
| aquatix | yeah, i noticed | 18:09 |
| jott | missing lots of optimization :) | 18:09 |
| aquatix | Fx3 beta 4 on my laptop zips | 18:09 |
| pupnik | http://apple2history.org/history/ah03.html | 18:09 |
| pupnik | real hacker | 18:09 |
| pupnik | An interesting bit of trivia about Wozniak's Integer BASIC was that he never had an assembly language source file for it. He wrote it in machine language, assembling it by hand on paper: | 18:09 |
| jott | hmm firefox 3 still lacks rendering speed and feels sluggish here - js perfomance is nice though ;) | 18:10 |
| crashanddie | I'd love to have gmail being snappy | 18:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Modest. | 18:10 |
| *** RP has joined #maemo | 18:10 | |
| crashanddie | yeah well I've never been a big fan of email clients | 18:11 |
| crashanddie | I might be (and probably am) plain wrong, but I always have this sense of limitation | 18:11 |
| johnx | ah that reminds me: is the search in modest working for anyone or should I file a bug? | 18:11 |
| crashanddie | I want me email to be on the laptop I work on, as well as the desktop I'm going to, as well as my IT | 18:12 |
| crashanddie | I don't want to have to wait for it to come in, or be stuck on one device that stole it from the others, etc | 18:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | IMAP | 18:12 |
| aquatix | ah, speaking of Modest, does any of you know why it almost never marks my email as `read' when i have read it from imap? | 18:12 |
| crashanddie | IMAP is plenty slow | 18:12 |
| aquatix | imap is nice | 18:13 |
| johnx | modest has gotten *a lot* faster | 18:13 |
| *** corq-FL has quit IRC | 18:13 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Search doesn't seem to do anything for me, johnx. | 18:13 |
| *** ch4os_ has quit IRC | 18:13 | |
| Navi | Hrm | 18:14 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, do you use modest with gmail ? | 18:14 |
| Navi | I can't find the phone with my spare N800 battery in it | 18:14 |
| johnx | I use modest with gmail/imap | 18:14 |
| *** BTobotras has quit IRC | 18:14 | |
| crashanddie | Navi, that's not your spare N800 battery, that's the battery of your phone you're using because your n800 one ran out :P | 18:14 |
| johnx | plenty fast, and marks things read | 18:14 |
| crashanddie | hmm | 18:14 |
| Navi | crashanddie, I dont use that phone | 18:14 |
| crashanddie | ok, lemme give it a try | 18:15 |
| keesj | interesting , /me just dicovered that the "nokia" serial was documented http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_KernelCompilation/#dd110018d2a5069fe5f69e45ed6335fc | 18:15 |
| crashanddie | (again) | 18:15 |
| Navi | It's just in there 'cuz I need it to charge the battery | 18:15 |
| keesj | I wonder where to get some kind of adapter | 18:15 |
| aquatix | johnx: hm, i use the weekly's, but it doesn't generally mark email read on my imaps server | 18:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | keesj, you'd have to build one. | 18:16 |
| johnx | all I can say is that it "works for me" | 18:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or break into a service center and steal one. | 18:16 |
| aquatix | johnx: ok :) | 18:16 |
| * aquatix wil remove the account and re-add it | 18:16 | |
| keesj | I will go for the easy sollution | 18:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Breaking in and stealing one? :P | 18:16 |
| keesj | off course | 18:17 |
| *** matt_c_ is now known as matt_c | 18:17 | |
| keesj | is should have studied fine mechanics like my parents would have liked, instead I wanted to study AI and ended up in IT | 18:19 |
| crashanddie | my parents wanted me to be a doctor, or a lawyer | 18:20 |
| crashanddie | oh the shame | 18:20 |
| crashanddie | :D | 18:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Instead you burned up like a piggy or a bbq? | 18:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/or/on/ | 18:20 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Instead you burned up like a piggy on a bbq? | 18:20 |
| *** vcgomes has joined #maemo | 18:20 | |
| crashanddie | man maemo-hackers is waaay too slow | 18:21 |
| crashanddie | they should up their simultaneous connections by a bunch, its not the load that's killing 'em, it's the small queue | 18:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damnit, that song is stuck in my head now and I have to go watch that movie again. <_< | 18:22 |
| crashanddie | which song ? Which movie ? | 18:22 |
| *** lcuk has joined #maemo | 18:22 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Blame Canada | 18:23 |
| *** kcome has quit IRC | 18:23 | |
| GeneralAntilles | South Park: The Movie | 18:23 |
| crashanddie | heh | 18:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Greatest musical ever. | 18:23 |
| crashanddie | agreed | 18:25 |
| crashanddie | after Sweeney Todd | 18:25 |
| glass | hehe | 18:25 |
| glass | rocky horror picture show is better than southpark at least though | 18:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pfft | 18:26 |
| *** corq-FL has joined #maemo | 18:31 | |
| lcuk | south parks wins just by pure classics as La Resistance or I Can Change, and who could forget uncle fucker | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Satan singing. . . . | 18:32 |
| *** BTobotras has joined #maemo | 18:32 | |
| crashanddie | well uncle fucker is probably my least favorite one | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I love the scene with Cartman and the megaphone. | 18:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's so catchy. | 18:33 |
| crashanddie | the dying giraffe is classic though | 18:33 |
| glass | lcuk: better songs, but not a better musical/movie | 18:33 |
| lcuk | south park is a decent movie, rocky horror is an experience | 18:34 |
| lcuk | hmm i just had an email with a single word: "remove" | 18:35 |
| *** guardian has joined #maemo | 18:35 | |
| lcuk | i wonder who thinks im a bot | 18:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | You aren't? | 18:37 |
| aquatix | dang, i thought alice bot had evolved | 18:37 |
| *** jeff1f has quit IRC | 18:42 | |
| Navi | All of my emails are titled and worded to intentionally be caught by spam filters | 18:47 |
| johnx | is it working? | 18:47 |
| Navi | Yeah | 18:47 |
| johnx | nice | 18:47 |
| *** Fenix-Dark has joined #maemo | 18:47 | |
| johnx | I tried that when I was setting up spamassassin the last time, but it could tell I wasn't actually advertising something...somehow | 18:48 |
| Navi | heh | 18:51 |
| *** Grackle has joined #maemo | 18:51 | |
| *** blkno1 has joined #maemo | 18:51 | |
| lcuk | its ok, i get spam sent from myself every day at work, its most disconcerting and i dont wanna add myself to the spam filter | 18:53 |
| lcuk | <<< FAIL | 18:53 |
| johnx | I guess I need to work on my pitch or something before I'm good enough to be considered spam... | 18:54 |
| *** kcome has joined #maemo | 18:55 | |
| lcuk | or maybe we can coat you in jelly and push you into a tin | 18:55 |
| johnx | I think I'll have to pass on that one... | 18:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | You sure? It's great fun. | 18:57 |
| johnx | nah, it's cool. you guys go ahead. ::runs:: | 18:57 |
| aquatix | lcuk: send a mail to the address with only this as body: | 18:58 |
| aquatix | XJS*C4JDBQADN1.NSBN3*2IDNEN*GTUBE-STANDARD-ANTI-UBE-TEST-EMAIL*C.34X | 18:58 |
| aquatix | instaspam | 18:58 |
| lcuk | eicar :D | 18:58 |
| lcuk | oooh no, this is different | 18:59 |
| aquatix | spamassassin test thingee | 18:59 |
| lcuk | X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H* | 18:59 |
| crashanddie | say, how come in the update section of application manager I always see "map", but am never able to update it ? | 19:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Uninstall it then reinstall it. | 19:01 |
| wom- | same here :) | 19:01 |
| lcuk | likely you have broken repo list and your device tried getting dependencies from odd places | 19:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it's been true since day one. | 19:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Update is broken somehow. | 19:01 |
| lcuk | ahhh, so even people with default repo have this problem? | 19:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | But uninstall/reinstall or red pill will fix it. | 19:01 |
| sp3000 | sure | 19:01 |
| aquatix | uninstall/reinstall worked here indeed, fyi ;) | 19:02 |
| aquatix | </stating_obvious> | 19:02 |
| *** prograf has joined #maemo | 19:06 | |
| lcuk | holy crap http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7321589.stm | 19:08 |
| t_s_o | ouch. i guess thats a good reason for not handing over a flying car to everyone... | 19:09 |
| crashanddie | johnx, installed modest, selected gmail imap account, keeps telling me username or password incorrect, tried both "crashanddie" and "crashanddie@gmail.com" for usernames, refuses both | 19:09 |
| MangoFusion | worked fine for me, how odd =/ | 19:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | IMAP enabled in the gmail control panel? | 19:10 |
| t_s_o | so, any ideas of the finger keyboard sensory system, or whatever, is tuneable somehow? | 19:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, just use center dpad. | 19:10 |
| johnx | midori copes with heavy sites like engadget so much better than microb... | 19:11 |
| *** muu has quit IRC | 19:12 | |
| *** prograf has quit IRC | 19:13 | |
| *** skibur has joined #maemo | 19:14 | |
| *** Sho_ has quit IRC | 19:15 | |
| crashanddie | hmm | 19:16 |
| crashanddie | so, I admit | 19:16 |
| crashanddie | imap is plenty fast with modest | 19:16 |
| crashanddie | claws sucks, thus | 19:16 |
| johnx | it used to be not that quick in modest...in fact for quite a while I was worried we were stuck with the crappy status quo WRT no good email clients on the n8x0 | 19:16 |
| *** kcome has quit IRC | 19:17 | |
| crashanddie | does modest support pgp ? | 19:17 |
| rafl | how to resize columns in a gtk treeview widget on maemo? for some reason the application manager displays package names in a very small column which makes it pretty unusable as only the first few characters are shown. | 19:17 |
| crashanddie | johnx, do the email headers get saved on the IT ? | 19:18 |
| crashanddie | johnx, as in, will it need to do the big update everytime again ? | 19:19 |
| *** Vytas has quit IRC | 19:19 | |
| johnx | I *think* they're saved. and it seems like at least a couple of recent messages are cached as well | 19:19 |
| johnx | I have no idea what the inclusion policy for that cache is though... | 19:19 |
| *** ustunozgur has joined #maemo | 19:20 | |
| *** sbaturzio has quit IRC | 19:22 | |
| lcuk | refl, ive noticed that as well and the annoying thing is the refresh after you click to see the rest and then close | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, rafl, that is fixed in SVN, should be in Diablo. | 19:27 |
| lcuk | i expected things like this to change which is why i am looking foreward to it :) | 19:27 |
| rafl | GeneralAntilles: any way to work it around for now? | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Compile and install the latest svn. | 19:28 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: thank god; the App Mgr has so many niggles with its overeager refreeshing of the GUI | 19:28 |
| rafl | aye | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm hoping they don't delay the Diablo release after the announcement like they did with OS2008 | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | er, Chinook. | 19:34 |
| *** Sho_ has joined #maemo | 19:36 | |
| johnx | I'm not holding my breath... | 19:38 |
| *** qwerty12 has joined #maemo | 19:39 | |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: indeed | 19:40 |
| *** smackpotato has joined #maemo | 19:42 | |
| *** trbs has joined #maemo | 19:50 | |
| *** kenne has joined #maemo | 19:50 | |
| *** dneary has joined #maemo | 19:50 | |
| *** pH5 has quit IRC | 19:50 | |
| *** jeff1f has joined #maemo | 19:54 | |
| *** Tuco has joined #maemo | 19:56 | |
| *** kcome has joined #maemo | 19:56 | |
| *** guardian has quit IRC | 19:59 | |
| *** Zic has quit IRC | 20:01 | |
| *** bilboed has joined #maemo | 20:05 | |
| *** frade has quit IRC | 20:08 | |
| *** kcome has quit IRC | 20:08 | |
| *** kcome has joined #maemo | 20:09 | |
| *** qwerty12 has quit IRC | 20:10 | |
| *** denny has quit IRC | 20:10 | |
| *** Vytas has joined #maemo | 20:11 | |
| *** geaaru__ has joined #maemo | 20:12 | |
| *** geaaru_ has quit IRC | 20:13 | |
| *** playya_ has joined #maemo | 20:15 | |
| *** WormFood has joined #maemo | 20:19 | |
| *** L0cN800 has joined #maemo | 20:20 | |
| *** murrayc_ has joined #maemo | 20:23 | |
| *** playya has quit IRC | 20:28 | |
| *** kcome has quit IRC | 20:30 | |
| *** Synchronicity has quit IRC | 20:31 | |
| *** jeff1f has quit IRC | 20:42 | |
| *** jeff1f has joined #maemo | 20:42 | |
| *** konttori has joined #maemo | 20:49 | |
| *** Fenix-Dark has quit IRC | 20:49 | |
| *** user__ has joined #maemo | 20:50 | |
| user__ | hello | 20:50 |
| *** eichi has joined #maemo | 20:51 | |
| Proteous | hello | 20:51 |
| user__ | i just went to youtube and got a message that i have javascript turned off or an old version of flash payer, anyone else getting this? | 20:52 |
| shackan | user__: is the flash component in the browser loaded? | 20:53 |
| shackan | lower right corner -> magnifying glass icon -> components | 20:54 |
| lcuk | i noticed earlier today flash player on a site was showing up with shockwave icon instead of flash icon as it normally does. | 20:54 |
| lcuk | that was on windows with firefox/flashblock | 20:54 |
| user__ | how do i check that? i never unloaded it.. | 20:54 |
| Italodance | help | 20:54 |
| lcuk | no, what i mean is normally youtube shows up as a blocked flash window. today it displayed as a blocked shockwave window | 20:55 |
| user__ | yep, it's loaded | 20:55 |
| *** dneary has quit IRC | 20:55 | |
| Italodance | ma canola 2 can't read my photos at my mmc2 gallery folder what can i do? | 20:55 |
| *** christefano has quit IRC | 20:56 | |
| Italodance | ? | 20:56 |
| lcuk | sit back and wait for the end of the world? | 20:56 |
| lcuk | not sure, have you looked on canola site to see if others have noticed a problem | 20:56 |
| user__ | and strangely, tried to view my galleries in http | 20:57 |
| user__ | and strangely, tried to view my galleries in http://fmedina.smugmu.com and they now don't show up..it's heavy on javascript.. | 20:57 |
| Italodance | so what can i do? | 20:57 |
| *** kenne has quit IRC | 20:58 | |
| lcuk | have a look here | 20:59 |
| lcuk | https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=462 | 20:59 |
| lcuk | i dont use the program myself and dont know if others will have seen it | 20:59 |
| Italodance | also my canola 2 Dedicated to my Mplayer! i want for Media Player!??? what can i do? | 20:59 |
| *** pleemans has joined #maemo | 21:00 | |
| KotCzarny | lcuk: are you familiar with pygtk? or python? | 21:00 |
| lcuk | ive got a rusty enough understanding to work with it | 21:00 |
| KotCzarny | can you help me with a (simple?) script? | 21:00 |
| lcuk | sure ill take a look | 21:01 |
| KotCzarny | join #kotc | 21:01 |
| user__ | i restarted browser, now youtube works.. | 21:03 |
| *** jeff1f has quit IRC | 21:07 | |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 21:07 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 21:07 | |
| *** alex-weej has joined #maemo | 21:11 | |
| *** L0cN800 has quit IRC | 21:12 | |
| *** murrayc_ has quit IRC | 21:13 | |
| *** playya__ has joined #maemo | 21:16 | |
| *** anryx has joined #maemo | 21:24 | |
| *** playya_ has quit IRC | 21:26 | |
| *** alextreme has quit IRC | 21:27 | |
| *** playya__ is now known as playya | 21:28 | |
| *** skibur has quit IRC | 21:38 | |
| *** disqk has joined #maemo | 21:39 | |
| *** alex-weej has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** Vytas has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** corq-FL has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** herzi has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** Pio__ has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** giskard has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** Zenton has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** msh_ has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** Redline` has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** thux has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** Mikho has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** kuriiri has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** MSameerWork has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** vlad_ has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** thoenig has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** akv has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** zuh has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** kulve has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** vbatts has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** Lynoure has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** Austin has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** vivijim has joined #maemo | 21:44 | |
| *** Crfrod has joined #maemo | 21:44 | |
| *** alextreme has joined #maemo | 21:46 | |
| *** skibur has joined #maemo | 21:48 | |
| *** Zenton has joined #maemo | 21:48 | |
| *** philipl has quit IRC | 21:49 | |
| *** kuriiri has joined #maemo | 21:49 | |
| *** Redline` has joined #maemo | 21:49 | |
| *** thux has joined #maemo | 21:49 | |
| *** thoenig has joined #maemo | 21:50 | |
| *** cmarcelo has joined #maemo | 21:54 | |
| *** j0tt has joined #maemo | 21:54 | |
| *** jott has quit IRC | 21:54 | |
| *** j0tt is now known as jott | 21:54 | |
| *** ustunozgur has quit IRC | 21:55 | |
| *** jprieur has quit IRC | 21:55 | |
| *** vbatts has joined #maemo | 21:57 | |
| *** alex-weej has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** corq-FL has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** vlad_ has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** herzi has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** Pio__ has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** giskard has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** Lynoure has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** MSameerWork has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** kulve has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** zuh has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** akv has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** Mikho has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** Austin has joined #maemo | 21:59 | |
| *** hap has quit IRC | 21:59 | |
| *** alex-weej_ has joined #maemo | 22:00 | |
| *** alex-weej has quit IRC | 22:01 | |
| *** Crfrodf has quit IRC | 22:02 | |
| *** Austin has quit IRC | 22:02 | |
| *** giskard_ has joined #maemo | 22:03 | |
| *** giskard has quit IRC | 22:04 | |
| *** jeff1f has joined #maemo | 22:04 | |
| *** Pio has joined #maemo | 22:06 | |
| *** msh has joined #maemo | 22:07 | |
| *** Zword has joined #maemo | 22:08 | |
| *** red-zack has quit IRC | 22:09 | |
| *** christefano has joined #maemo | 22:09 | |
| *** konttori has quit IRC | 22:11 | |
| *** Vytas has joined #maemo | 22:12 | |
| *** Pio__ has quit IRC | 22:13 | |
| *** NetBlade has joined #maemo | 22:14 | |
| *** simon_ has quit IRC | 22:16 | |
| *** f_mohr has joined #maemo | 22:18 | |
| f_mohr | is there a desktop linux tool to access/create meamo mappers map gdbm files? | 22:20 |
| KotCzarny | probably | 22:20 |
| KotCzarny | it's a simple sqlite3 db | 22:20 |
| *** simon_ has joined #maemo | 22:21 | |
| *** Zword has quit IRC | 22:21 | |
| *** Zword has joined #maemo | 22:22 | |
| *** murrayc_ has joined #maemo | 22:27 | |
| *** playya_ has joined #maemo | 22:28 | |
| *** konttori has joined #maemo | 22:29 | |
| crashanddie | wake up people ! | 22:36 |
| KotCzarny | what for? | 22:36 |
| crashanddie | dunno :) | 22:36 |
| * KotCzarny goes back where he was | 22:36 | |
| crashanddie | bed ? | 22:37 |
| *** user__ has quit IRC | 22:37 | |
| * Jaffa goes to watch the end of Series 2 of _Spaced_ | 22:41 | |
| *** sbaturzio has joined #maemo | 22:42 | |
| *** playya has quit IRC | 22:43 | |
| *** anders_gud has joined #maemo | 22:46 | |
| Proteous | wake up sheeple | 22:47 |
| Proteous | OS2008 is an inside job | 22:47 |
| Navi | ZOMG | 22:48 |
| Navi | UR RITE | 22:48 |
| Navi | Proteous, how do I wake up?! | 22:48 |
| *** Disconnect has quit IRC | 22:50 | |
| *** bilboed has quit IRC | 22:50 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Hahaha. omg, Proteous. | 22:50 |
| *** Disconnect has joined #maemo | 22:50 | |
| *** webustany has quit IRC | 22:52 | |
| *** p| has joined #maemo | 22:54 | |
| *** hrw has joined #maemo | 22:54 | |
| hrw | i | 22:54 |
| hrw | hi | 22:54 |
| hrw | ~curse badly xkb | 22:54 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, badly xkb ! | 22:54 |
| *** hap has joined #maemo | 22:55 | |
| KotCzarny | uucpssh? | 22:55 |
| KotCzarny | o.o | 22:55 |
| hrw | I wonder why xkb is so fscked by design. | 22:58 |
| hrw | or rather why maemo devs fscked n810 keymaps so much | 22:58 |
| Robot101 | xkb is fucked by sgi and metroworks | 22:59 |
| KotCzarny | sgi is dead baby | 22:59 |
| hrw | to make working keymap you need to define 80% of keys becase base configuration defines only Fkeys, cursors and few keys | 22:59 |
| hrw | ~kill maemo | 22:59 |
| * infobot shoots a ionized pseudomeson gun at maemo | 22:59 | |
| Robot101 | the maemo guy is the xkb upstream maintainer, and did a hell of a lot of work to fix it | 23:00 |
| *** Yancho has quit IRC | 23:00 | |
| *** AStorm has joined #maemo | 23:00 | |
| hrw | Robot101: maybe he is. but it is not his fault that i18n on maemo platform not exists at all | 23:00 |
| *** Yancho has joined #maemo | 23:00 | |
| *** user__ has joined #maemo | 23:00 | |
| hrw | those parts which exists were designed by .... | 23:00 |
| *** blassey_ has joined #maemo | 23:02 | |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 23:02 | |
| *** cmarcelo has left #maemo | 23:03 | |
| *** guardian has joined #maemo | 23:05 | |
| *** christefano has quit IRC | 23:05 | |
| pupnik | xkb? xkb? | 23:07 |
| *** pleemans has quit IRC | 23:08 | |
| pupnik | hrw you can fix http://pupnik.de/xkbd.html xkbd virtual keyboard for OS2008? | 23:08 |
| pupnik | or is there a better alternative? | 23:08 |
| hrw | pupnik: I curse n810 keymaps | 23:09 |
| KotCzarny | i'll fix xkbd one day | 23:09 |
| KotCzarny | i promise | 23:09 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 23:09 |
| KotCzarny | right now i'm working on iconxbox | 23:09 |
| KotCzarny | iconsbox | 23:09 |
| *** hfwilke has joined #maemo | 23:10 | |
| pupnik | ? | 23:10 |
| hrw | pupnik: I only use maemo - rather do not plan to develop apps for it. | 23:10 |
| *** murrayc_ has quit IRC | 23:10 | |
| KotCzarny | to catch those 'invisible' windows | 23:10 |
| pupnik | ah | 23:10 |
| KotCzarny | and have an option to bring them back | 23:10 |
| hrw | pupnik: this platform is too sick for me and level of 'vendor support' makes it sick even more | 23:10 |
| *** jeff1f has quit IRC | 23:11 | |
| *** christefano has joined #maemo | 23:12 | |
| *** p|_ has joined #maemo | 23:14 | |
| pupnik | hrw any less sick handheld platforms come to mind? | 23:15 |
| vlad_ | KotCzarny: got it working btw, I'll write up instructions shortly | 23:15 |
| KotCzarny | vlad: great :) | 23:15 |
| vlad_ | had to rebuild glib with the new compiler | 23:15 |
| KotCzarny | yeah | 23:15 |
| KotCzarny | i have thought about it | 23:15 |
| KotCzarny | but it means wholse os will need to be rebuilt | 23:16 |
| KotCzarny | and apt-get upgrade will wreak havoc :> | 23:16 |
| *** shackan has quit IRC | 23:16 | |
| hrw | pupnik: hard to tell - it was long time since I used pda for longer time | 23:16 |
| vlad_ | KotCzarny: well.. I haven't tested on the device yet | 23:17 |
| vlad_ | but I think it's a qemu problem, and that binaries will run fine | 23:17 |
| vlad_ | only other thing I noticed is that I think I installed the scratchbox1 compiler, not sb2 | 23:17 |
| KotCzarny | vlad: i'm a pessimist :) | 23:17 |
| vlad_ | (scratchbox-toolchain-arm-linux-cs2007q3-51sb1 instead of scratchbox-toolchain-arm-linux-cs2007q3-51) | 23:18 |
| KotCzarny | i have tried both | 23:18 |
| KotCzarny | i think | 23:18 |
| vlad_ | the sb1 seems to be working fine, but I wonder if that's bad in some way | 23:18 |
| hrw | bye all | 23:19 |
| KotCzarny | how to tell which sbox i have? | 23:19 |
| * hrw finally fixed Polish n810 hw keymap again | 23:19 | |
| *** hrw is now known as hrw|gone | 23:19 | |
| *** dolske has quit IRC | 23:22 | |
| *** p| has quit IRC | 23:22 | |
| eichi | my N800 LED does not stop flashing ;D what can i do? | 23:22 |
| KotCzarny | panic | 23:23 |
| KotCzarny | or just turn notifiers in control panels | 23:23 |
| KotCzarny | maybe you have new mail or something | 23:24 |
| Italodance | help | 23:26 |
| Italodance | how can default my canola from mplayer to media player ? | 23:26 |
| Italodance | ? | 23:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | eichi, there are settings in the Control Panel under Backlight. | 23:30 |
| *** guardian has quit IRC | 23:30 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Italodance, there's a thread or two on the subject in the Canola forum on ITT. | 23:30 |
| *** christefano has quit IRC | 23:30 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, unless you happened to have stumbled on the little LED bug, eichi. In which case, a restart will solve it. | 23:33 |
| eichi | claws-mail did the flashing | 23:34 |
| eichi | i closed claws-mail now | 23:34 |
| eichi | restart is for adding new hardware ;) | 23:35 |
| KotCzarny | or upgrading libc | 23:35 |
| KotCzarny | or kernel | 23:35 |
| *** pat__ has joined #maemo | 23:35 | |
| KotCzarny | or as a quick and dirty 'boss key' feature | 23:36 |
| pat__ | hi, how do i gain root on maemo? the article with installing ssh seeems to be out of date since the link to dropbear is dead... | 23:36 |
| KotCzarny | why do you need dropbear? | 23:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | nitapps.com | 23:36 |
| eichi | pat__, install easyroot | 23:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Instally easyroot | 23:36 |
| KotCzarny | install ssh-server | 23:36 |
| eichi | then type root | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Type "root" in xterm | 23:37 |
| KotCzarny | or openssh-server | 23:37 |
| KotCzarny | or ssh metapackage | 23:37 |
| KotCzarny | that will install client and server | 23:37 |
| KotCzarny | apt-get install openssh | 23:38 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 23:38 |
| pat__ | now client and ssh server or easyroot? on maemo os 07 i've already installed sshd but after that, my n800 box didn't start anymore.. that's why I've never installed it again... | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Both | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | OpenSSH is incredibly useful. | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | easyroot is good for local root shell. | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thousands of people use OpenSSH without trouble. | 23:40 |
| pat__ | hmm okay... I try it once again... :) | 23:43 |
| *** unique311 has joined #maemo | 23:45 | |
| pupnik | too bad Ångström looks kinda ... semi inactive | 23:46 |
| Italodance | how can edit a text file on n800? wel for internal card? | 23:49 |
| Italodance | hello unique311 | 23:49 |
| *** geaaru__ has quit IRC | 23:52 | |
| *** Crfrodf has joined #maemo | 23:52 | |
| *** dolske has joined #maemo | 23:52 | |
| *** geaaru__ has joined #maemo | 23:52 | |
| *** blassey_ has quit IRC | 23:55 | |
| *** jprieur has joined #maemo | 23:56 | |
| konttori | hey, anyone of you guys been creating home applets using python? | 23:58 |
| * KotCzarny shrugs | 23:58 | |
| KotCzarny | i'm trying to learn it :) | 23:58 |
| konttori | It seems quite easy stuff really | 23:59 |
| konttori | And looks like it could be really powerful indeed. | 23:59 |
| KotCzarny | if you know python and gtk already.. | 23:59 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 23:59 |
| konttori | Yeah, well, I'd recommend doing the applets with cairo | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!