IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-03-25

johnxit's in device mode to begin with...00:00
KotCzarny(i'm assuming you have n8x0 and recent os)00:01
johnxby default the n8x0 acts like a usb card reader00:01
MikhoI have a 770 and it is flashed to host mode00:01
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KotCzarnyah.00:01
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KotCzarnyabout 770 i know nothing00:01
KotCzarny:)00:01
johnxme neither. sorry. :(00:02
KotCzarnymikho, dig into the kernel00:02
Mikhosniff :(00:02
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KotCzarnymaybe you can compile usb as a module?00:02
KotCzarnyor it's in rom somewhere?00:02
MikhoI'm not sure what you mean00:03
johnxthat's ok, neither is he :)00:04
KotCzarny:)00:04
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KotCzarnymikho: if you simply want to access your 770 files on pc try nfs00:06
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Cptnodegard[23:06] <KotCzarny> mikho: if you simply want to access your 770 files on pc try nfs <- or a USB cable :p00:15
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KotCzarnyi think nfs is more readily available than proper usb cable00:17
KotCzarny:)00:17
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KotCzarnybecause for host-host connection he can't use dumb cable00:18
KotCzarnyie. one that came with his nokia :P00:18
Cptnodegardi just read the last line and replied something :)00:19
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KotCzarnyyeah00:19
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lopzhi00:35
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antitheisthi guys, i have a strange question - does anyone know if the maemo device program can be used for more than one device?00:51
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antitheist(n810 developers discount)00:51
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johnxis that program even still going on?00:52
antitheisti just got my order accepted today (finally)00:52
antitheistbut they are apparently sending two00:52
antitheistleaves me in a moral dillema i thought id find out what the rules are00:52
johnxI don't think they're supposed to send two O_o00:53
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antitheistme either :-)  but it seems a little wrong00:54
antitheistthey called to ask if i ordered two00:55
antitheisti thought maybe that was ok, but i'll probably say no... it seems a bit greedy00:55
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KotCzarny:>00:56
johnxdid they apply the discount to both?00:56
antitheistyes, they refused the first order and then put the second one through followed by the first00:56
KotCzarnyhehe00:56
antitheistim not sure how the contract works, as far as they know the computer says 'send them'00:56
antitheistwhaddya think? two or not....00:57
antitheisti thought id ask some people that might understand a bit :)00:57
KotCzarnyis it a trick question?00:57
antitheisti think it goes against the community vibe to take two no?00:58
antitheistbut the best thing would probably be to take two and then run a developers competition to donate it or something00:58
johnxthis is Nokia we're talking about...you're not robbing from the poor. Maybe you can find someone who could use it to develop and cut them a deal?00:58
KotCzarny:>00:58
johnxheh00:58
KotCzarnyyeah00:58
KotCzarnynokia will have more in the losses from other sources00:58
antitheistyou dont think they can ask for it back or charge me more right?00:58
KotCzarnyie. unsold devices than actively used ones00:59
antitheisti wouldnt want to be disqualified from future programs, I appreciate the discount i cant afford 'one real one'00:59
johnxthey will probably ask for it back, but who knows if they can legally take it back...00:59
antitheisthehehe00:59
antitheistthe community would hate them if it was going to a dev competition00:59
johnxI think something similar already happened on itt or here where they accidentally sold one to someone in the device program for $0 and then decided they wanted it back01:00
johnxI don't remember how that turned out01:00
elbyeah, that happened to a number of european locales01:01
elbthey followed the $0 devices up with $99eur + shipping bills01:01
elbor some such01:01
antitheisti read that somewhere too01:01
KotCzarnynice promotion01:01
antitheistso the question is really how much i trust nokia to be cool then?01:01
antitheisti think ill probably err on the side of caution then...01:02
KotCzarnyit's not the nokia, it's the employees01:02
KotCzarny:>01:02
KotCzarnyplay dumb01:02
KotCzarnyif they ask, return one, keep other01:02
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UNOchocolate rain...01:03
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antitheistthanks guys... the terms and conditions say 'one device' - i guess ill play it safe ... but i had to share it with someone01:04
antitheistgood advice though01:04
KotCzarnybut we are not lawyers01:05
KotCzarnyremember that01:05
KotCzarny:)01:05
antitheisteventually enough of us will be :-)01:05
johnxprobably for the best. glad to hear the device program finally got around to you though. :)01:05
antitheistyeah - finally I can ditch the zaurus and have a keyboarded maemo !01:05
antitheistwell, not ditch - its going bsd01:05
antitheisthave a good night01:06
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trbsjust ran an apt-get dist-upgade on my nokia n810 and now the poweroff-button and lock-slider arn't working anymore....01:17
trbsis this a know issue ?01:17
trbs(and yes i have an insane amount of cataloges installed :( )01:18
johnxit depends on what repositories you had enabled when you did a dist-upgrade01:18
johnxyes, known issue01:18
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trbsbut i saw some updates of nokia come by... but i havn't checked which repository they came from (stupid me)01:18
johnxthey're probably from the development repo and are the *most likely* ones to mess up your device01:19
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trbscause i'm thinking... not much harm if a fix is on the way, possibly downgrading the offending packages (removing the development repo might help :)01:19
trbsor otherwise just reflashing latest os2008 release... but it's nice to know people know about it :)01:19
johnxmost 3rd party developers try to release software that won't mess up your tablet, but Nokia releases whatever they want in some of the repos01:20
johnxa dist-upgrade with those repos enabled is definitely a bad idea...and they probably won't release a fix any time before the next "firmware" update01:20
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trbshehe sounds like it's the wrong way around :) i mean, repo's shouldn't mess up the device (unless somebody like me is so stupid to include beta/alpha repo's :)01:21
trbsbut you surely would not expect nokia to release broken packages01:21
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johnxwell their line is "these weren't supposed to be used by normal users"01:22
KotCzarny'normal'01:22
KotCzarny:>01:22
trbsah well i'll try removing and downgrading tomorrow or otherwise flashing back to os2008 release and just install packages again01:22
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johnxalso their "application manager" will likely refuse to upgrade to those versions01:22
johnxand they don't care much about stopping you from doing whatever you want with apt-get (which I consider to be a good thing, actually...)01:23
KotCzarnyapp manager will refuse to upgrade for misc reasons01:23
KotCzarny;)01:23
trbshehe yeah but what's a device with opensource community good for if you shouldn't hack your device :P :)01:23
trbsyeah true01:23
johnxso hack it, but know that you're hacking it01:23
trbsonly bad thing to say about it, is that a development repo should be red-flagged01:23
KotCzarnyapt-get ftw!01:23
trbsbut true true... i was not careful enough01:23
trbs:) it's my fault entirely :)01:23
KotCzarny:)01:24
trbs(okey and possibly those repository list site, should not include alpha/beta/development repo's in there 'select all repositories' listing)01:24
johnxit's just whatever repos people add01:24
johnxpeople have added OS2007 repos to the OS2008 section as well01:25
trbsbut i was actually semi-expecting some breakage from just adding every repo in the list :)01:25
trbslazy vs time-consuming-ticking-of-the-boxes trade-off (lol)01:26
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KotCzarnywrite a script01:26
KotCzarnyto tick off for you01:26
johnxmy solution: only add repos that can contain software I want01:26
KotCzarnymy solution, install via dpkg -i01:27
KotCzarny:)01:27
johnxKotCzarny, yay! let's resolve all dependencies manually! woo! :P01:27
KotCzarny:>01:27
johnxand also, on the tablet I try to suppress my "install updates because they're there" reflex :)01:27
trbsyeah i worked like that (and should have continued to work like that) but with easter came this 'i feel bold and lucky' moment............. ending with a dist-upgrade :)01:27
KotCzarnyok, you can enable extras01:28
KotCzarnybut nothing more :)01:28
kpelspeaking of 'dpkg -i', this actually fixed the problem i was getting with the scratchbox install script01:28
trbsi'll just stick to the original plan i guess... specially since i saw a mercurial-package for maemo float by somewhere01:28
kpeli just used dpkg -i on the packages it fetched and everything worked01:28
trbswanted to create a small hg repository on my device which has some scripts, .install files, etc to easily backup and script the tabled01:29
kpeldoed gdb come as part of the dev packages of the SDK or do i have to selectdbg packages>? all dev and01:31
kpelduh01:31
kpeldoed gdb come as part of the dev packages of the SDK or do i have to select all dev and dbg packages?01:31
trbsa well... important thing is conformation that is was my stupid mistake :) and not some bug/error in the (maemo) firmware01:31
KotCzarnyprobably with sdk01:31
KotCzarnyas i don't remember installing it01:31
trbsnow i can sleep well tonight and fix the problems tomorrow ;)01:31
trbsthnx guys01:31
kpelthanks KotCzarny01:31
johnxgood luck trbs01:31
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kpeldo you knowo of any xchat package ported for chinook?01:33
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johnxkpel, yes google for "xchat skyhuser maemo chinook"01:35
KotCzarnyhmm '>' ?01:36
KotCzarnyerm. wrong window01:36
kpeljohnx: thanks01:36
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AStormhello01:57
WormFoodmorning01:57
AStormhow is wifi brought up in maemo?01:57
AStormcertainly non-standard01:57
WormFoodof course it is non-standard01:57
AStormno wpa_supplicant01:57
AStormdbus?01:58
KotCzarnyprobably01:58
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AStormcan't find where to mod for that dhclient to work01:58
WormFoodthere is something weird going on with the dhcp client02:00
WormFoodit appears that the router is not sending back any response at all02:00
WormFoodat least, in my situation02:01
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johnxAStorm, look at icd and wlancond02:02
johnxor make a wrapper script called udhcpc that just calls dhclient :P02:03
AStormthese are executables :P02:03
AStormyeah02:03
AStormi need dhclient script too02:03
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AStormKotCzarny: make a full dhcp package, would you?02:04
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KotCzarnyi don't know how02:04
KotCzarny:>02:04
KotCzarnyprobably i could simply take debian source package02:04
KotCzarnyand try compiling it02:05
KotCzarnylet's see02:05
AStormhmm, it can't find interfaces :P02:06
AStormno ip_inet proc file02:06
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KotCzarnyastorm: feeling adventurous?02:07
KotCzarnyhttp://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/d/dhcp/dhcp_2.0pl5-19.5etch2_arm.deb02:07
KotCzarny:>02:07
AStormwhy not02:07
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AStormincompatible02:08
KotCzarnyuhum02:08
johnxheh02:09
AStormwould have to hack it02:09
johnxyeah, somehow I don't think application manager will install it :P02:09
johnxjust dpkg -i02:09
AStormneed armel not arm too02:09
KotCzarnybtw. how do you make a deb from sources?02:09
johnxwith mud-builder in scratchbox02:09
AStormwith debsomething02:09
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AStormthat too02:10
johnxdpkg-buildpackage02:10
AStormmhm02:10
johnxor ./debian/rules02:10
KotCzarnyshould i unpack it first?02:10
johnxjust grab the dsc, diff.gz and orig.tar.gz into one dir and run dpkg-source -X foo.dsc02:10
johnxit will "do the right thing" then you can dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot02:11
KotCzarnybarfed out02:11
KotCzarnydpkg-source: unknown option `-X'02:11
KotCzarny;)02:11
johnxmaybe small x ? :P02:11
KotCzarnyyup02:11
KotCzarnydpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: groff02:12
KotCzarnydoh.02:12
AStormremove man pages then?02:13
KotCzarnyi'll just install groff02:13
AStormthere's an option for that?02:13
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johnxgah...trying to do a build in mud-builder but it's failing on other deps02:14
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KotCzarnydoh. barfed on token ring source.02:16
KotCzarnygrrr.02:16
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KotCzarnylet's try another version02:16
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KotCzarnyastorm: mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/pump_0.8.24-2.1_armel.deb02:24
KotCzarny:)02:24
AStormpump is probably fail too :P02:24
AStormbut it's always good to check02:24
KotCzarnyin sid there are no dhcp-client02:24
KotCzarnyhttp://packages.debian.org/sid/dhcp-client02:25
AStormgimme a real http link02:25
KotCzarnydoh02:25
KotCzarnycan't you just add http?02:25
KotCzarny:)02:25
AStormcopy and paste is awkward02:25
KotCzarnyhttp://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/pump_0.8.24-2.1_armel.deb02:26
KotCzarnydoh02:26
KotCzarny(and the bots suck my poor thttpd02:26
johnxsid armel dhcp3-client exists...02:26
KotCzarnyjohnx: weird they have both02:26
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KotCzarnyastorm: i can try sid's udhcpc02:27
AStormheh02:28
KotCzarnyi mean compiling a package02:28
KotCzarny:)02:28
AStormI've to make pump write to another resolv.conf02:28
KotCzarnythere's a chance they have fixed some bugs02:28
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johnxKotCzarny, it's exactly the same version as etch/stable...02:30
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KotCzarnyhttp://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/udhcpc_0.9.8cvs20050303-2_armel.deb02:30
KotCzarny:)02:30
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johnxKotCzarny, apt-cache policy udhcpc | grep Installed = Installed: 0.9.8cvs20050303-2osso402:44
KotCzarny:)02:44
KotCzarnythen if debian has the same udhcpc..02:44
KotCzarnywe can't blame nokia n8x002:45
KotCzarny:)02:45
fysawow.  reader.google.com detects when I toggle fullscreen and responds to it.02:45
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yllusHey guys, what find stores the list of repositories on your tablet?02:52
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johnxcat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list02:53
fysait automagically collapses the feed list when I fullscreen.02:54
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johnxWormFood, is there any chance you could put the *exact* output you get from udhcpc on pastebin or something?03:05
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yllusIt'd be a pretty bad idea to do a "apt-get update libc6", right?03:09
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KotCzarnyif you have rogue repos..03:10
KotCzarny:)03:10
johnxyllus, apt-cache policy libc603:10
johnxwhat repo will the "candidate" come from?03:11
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yllushttp://repository.maemo.org bora/free Packages03:11
johnxare you still on OS2007?03:11
yllusNo, OS200603:11
* yllus cringes03:11
KotCzarny:>03:11
johnxyes...probably a very bad idea03:11
yllushaha, worth a try03:12
yllusHard to find applications that work with my old 770 lately03:12
johnxI can almost guarantee it will make your 770 unbootable if you install it03:12
KotCzarnyinstall os2007he03:12
KotCzarny:)03:12
johnxyllus, try 2007HE or 2008HE (if you're feeling a little adventurous)03:12
johnxor debian if you're feeling really adventurous :D03:13
yllushaha03:13
yllusAh, I'm just too comfortable with my install of 2006 to do it - figured I'd ask though03:13
KotCzarny:>03:13
KotCzarnyyou're not comfortable if you ask about updating03:13
KotCzarny:)03:13
johnxwell, if you're comfortable with your OS2006 install then definitely stay away from packages for other OS versions, as that's a good way to end up in a reboot loop right quick03:14
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yllusI'm going to see about buying someone's used N80003:14
yllusGave him a nice lowball offer, hopefully he realized the resell market is rough and he should go with my offer...03:14
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johnxI'm kind of surprised to see how much people want for the N800 on ebay O_o03:17
yllusHe said $235 OBO; I offered $15003:19
yllushaha03:19
WormFoodI paid $230 for mine brand new03:19
johnxyeah, for $235 you could buy one brand new03:19
GeneralAntillesThey didn't get the memo about the msrp drops. :P03:19
WormFoodjohnx, I'm not sure about getting a paste of the output03:19
GeneralAntilles(memo looks like it's spelled wrong O_o)03:19
yllusThis is in Canada, but regardless I agree03:19
johnxhey, WormFood could you post the output from udhcpc to pastebin for me?03:20
WormFoodyes, I think I can do that....just redirect it to a file, then copy the file off the N80003:20
johnxWormFood, ah, sorry, didn't see you reply O_o03:20
WormFoodbut not right this instant, I need to get ready to go03:20
WormFoodit is already 9:20 am here03:20
yllusHas anyone messed with iodine, the DNS tunneling software?03:21
WormFoodlet me see what I can do real quick03:21
WormFoodwhat command line do you want?03:21
johnxwhatever you ran for udhcpc that failed03:21
johnxprobably udhcpc -i wlan0 as root would be close enough03:21
WormFoodyllus, I wonder if it would work with chinese dns, since they actually proxy their dns, to stop their citizens from going to certain sites03:21
yllusThat would be amusing03:21
WormFoodjohnx, you want me to setup a static ip, then run udhcpc?03:22
WormFoodit is weird how the wireless works on the n80003:22
johnxyeah, if possible03:22
johnxif you don't have time right now, don't worry about it03:23
WormFoodok, give me a few minutes....I may not be able to complete it this morning, but I will try03:23
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freelikegnulatest mplayer build is rocking03:37
KotCzarnywhich one?03:37
johnxwhich version?03:37
freelikegnueven a2dp audio is sync well03:37
johnx!?03:37
* johnx might have to reinstall his own a2dp hack and try it out03:38
freelikegnu1.0rc1-maemo.26.n8x003:39
freelikegnuaudio doesnt start for a few seconds but after about 30 sec, all is synced03:39
freelikegnuseems like there is some adjustment period03:40
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freelikegnuvideos are xvid 352xwhatever and 128K mp3 audio03:41
freelikegnuheadphones are motorola s903:43
WormFoodjohnx, I have 2 files for you at http://wormfood.net/pastebin/03:44
freelikegnummm porkroast for dinner, dang I feel spoiled03:44
johnxWormFood, thanks!03:44
WormFoodone is a copy/paste of the screen output, and one is a redirect03:44
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WormFoodI did the copy/paste because it sends one message to error output, instead of standard output, and that wasn't captured in the redirect03:45
WormFoodand I didn't feel like looking up how to redirect stdout and errout at the same time (and I don't remember off the top of my head)03:45
johnxfoo 1> stdout.txt 2> stderr.txt for future reference :)03:46
WormFoodthat is one aspect of OS-9 that was very easy...">" is standard output, and ">>" is error output....but unfortunately this isn't OS-903:46
WormFoodyeah...well, I didn't feel like doing it :P03:46
johnxno problem. :) I'm glad to have the exact output though. This should make searching for a patch easier. *Someone* has to have run into this and fixed it:)03:47
WormFoodplenty of people have run into it, but it appears that nobody patched it03:47
WormFoodshit! I forgot to upload my packet dump too03:47
WormFoodok, packet dump at the same address...you can load it into wireshark/ethereal or whatever you want03:48
WormFoodit has more packets because I was picking up 2 WAPs, however, the only real traffic is on the n80003:49
WormFoodand another thing, I had to ctrl-C the dhcp client because it seemed to go on forever03:51
WormFoodif you want, I can let it run longer03:51
johnxnah, that's all I need (can use) for now03:53
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WormFoodgood luck with it03:55
WormFoodI wished I had more time to play around with it03:55
WormFoodif you get it to work, there will be a lot of thankful people03:55
pupnikAll I need is a little time, To get behind this sun and cast my weight, All I need is a peace of this mind, Then I can celebrate...03:59
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WormFoodok, I'm going offline now, so I can leave this town, and go "home"....I'll check back later and see what is new....you all have a good day/night04:06
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kpelgoodnight all04:07
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skiburany linux app that can read chm files?04:10
ashakchmviewer gnochm xchm04:11
GeneralAntillesfbreader, skibur.04:12
lcddargh! i HATE it when some gtk app grabs focus and hangs X04:12
skiburok04:12
skiburthanks04:12
KotCzarny:>04:12
KotCzarnykill it04:12
lcddi did. but it's a pain04:12
KotCzarnyi used n800 to kill hanging xpdf04:12
KotCzarny:>04:12
KotCzarnyi love my n800!04:12
lcddyes, this is what mobile devices are for04:13
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KotCzarnyearlier i had to start my pc box for that04:13
* KotCzarny shrugs04:13
RayTracer`any ideas why a windows share wouldn't work from an xp machine to a n81004:19
RayTracer`firewall isn't the issue04:20
RayTracer`windows share from my mac works ok04:20
KotCzarnybad user/pass ?04:20
KotCzarny:)04:20
RayTracer`it's guest access04:20
RayTracer`my gf's xp machine shows up too04:20
RayTracer`just mine doesn't04:20
KotCzarnyhow do you try to connect ?04:21
RayTracer`file manager04:21
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RayTracer`what workgroup does it look for04:21
KotCzarnygood question04:22
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KotCzarnyhmm04:25
KotCzarnymy file manager doesn't have samba options04:25
KotCzarnyweird04:25
RayTracer`yeah it's a black box samba implementation as far as I can tell04:25
RayTracer`some shares work some just will never come up :(04:26
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RayTracer`thankfully I use linux most of the time.. but almost all of my media content is in windows04:29
RayTracer`and with my new 8gb minisd card it writes a ton faster04:29
KotCzarny:)04:30
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lopznight04:49
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koyotewell05:23
koyotethe fm radio app is pointless05:23
GeneralAntillesWhy?05:25
KotCzarnyyou have to connect headphone05:25
KotCzarnys05:25
KotCzarnyor any other cable to act as antenna05:26
KotCzarny:>05:26
koyoteahso.05:26
koyotethat might help then05:26
KotCzarnyi don't know why they don't simply put a little wire inside05:26
koyotei can think of lots of reasons, actually05:26
koyoteall having to do with resonance in the 100mhz range :)05:26
koyotenow, happen to know the *real* range of the radio itself?05:27
KotCzarnywhich radio?05:27
KotCzarnywifi or fm?05:27
koyotefm05:27
KotCzarnynope05:27
KotCzarnyit depends on signal i guess05:27
KotCzarnybut i guess mhz-wise it's regular fm radio05:28
koyoteif it hits 140mhz, well a: I'll be shocked, but b: It'll be bonus points at the next ham meeting05:28
KotCzarny88-10805:28
koyoteI mean frequency range05:28
KotCzarnyfcc and stuff05:28
koyotenot necessarily. it's legal to receive outside 88-10805:28
koyotethat's what scanners and shortwave radios do, afterall.05:28
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Italodancehi06:33
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ds3that suggests and interesting idea06:57
ds3wonder if it can be coaxed up to about 150MHz06:57
KotCzarnyhow about approximating sine wave at 150mhz using wifi packets at 2.4xx ghz?06:58
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ds3good luck getting the details on how to do that :)07:12
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KotCzarny:)07:12
ds3but 150MHz would let it work as a 2M Ham radio monitor or even cover some weather stations07:13
ds3the Ham radio mode might be tricky as ham uses NFM instead of the WFM that thing is setup for07:13
KotCzarnyusb/sd plug?07:13
ds3eh?07:15
KotCzarnyaren't there any dongles?07:16
ryoohki_how do i use the n800 to make video recordings?07:17
KotCzarnyryoohki_: download some software probably07:17
ryoohki_KotCzarny: thanks, i nkow that though07:18
KotCzarny:)07:18
KotCzarnyyou can even use mencoder07:18
KotCzarnyor any app that does v4l207:19
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KotCzarnyhttp://tabletblog.com/2007/08/another-look-at-n800.html#c28805745518374530707:28
KotCzarnylol07:28
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ds3probally are07:30
ds3but why if the internal hw works07:30
KotCzarnyhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=224907:30
KotCzarnygoes down to 76mhz07:30
ds3and how high?07:30
KotCzarnyTEA5761UK07:30
KotCzarnyknow anything about this chip?07:30
ds3not much good stuff below FM07:30
ds3TEA? Philips I take it?07:31
ds3yep. NXP07:31
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ds3bah no hope that chip appears to have integrated filters at 10807:35
KotCzarnya version of the fmradio code has:07:36
KotCzarny#define FM_FREQ_MAX 108.007:36
KotCzarny#define FM_FREQ_MIN 87.507:36
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KotCzarnyhum07:36
KotCzarny:>07:36
KotCzarnybut that's kernel wise07:36
KotCzarnyone should compile own kernel and radio app too07:37
KotCzarnyto see if it actually works07:37
ds3i checked the NXP datasheet07:37
KotCzarnythere's also TEA5761_TNCTRL_HLSI which to me seems to be similarly interesting,07:37
KotCzarnybut again, it too appears immutable.07:37
ds3it isn't a software thing :(07:37
KotCzarnylife07:37
ds3unlike the really really cheap chips07:37
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koyotehuh07:38
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koyote76mhz?07:39
koyotelet me check band plan07:39
KotCzarny:)07:39
KotCzarny140 and up07:40
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koyotewell, ham is, yes07:42
koyotemil stuff uses 30-76 for short range comms07:44
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koyote76-88 i think is television07:47
koyotewell, 54-8807:47
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koyoteair traffic control in 108-13607:48
koyotethere's also military fm from 30-87 depending07:48
koyoteso there.07:48
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KotCzarnybtw. does n810 have fm radio ?07:49
kuriirinope07:50
KotCzarnyhah.07:50
* koyote loads metallica on phone for housemate's daughter07:50
KotCzarnynice girl, nice.. now put that knife away07:51
KotCzarny:)07:51
koyoteshe07:53
koyoteshe's only 15.07:53
KotCzarnyalready 15.07:53
koyotethough i did make her a belt knife for winter solstice07:53
* KotCzarny grins07:53
koyoteher mother keeps slacking on the sheath07:54
koyotehow do i install libXaw? it's not in any feeds i can find07:55
KotCzarnyi have just copied it from scratchbox07:55
KotCzarnyi beliece07:55
KotCzarnybelieve07:55
koyote?07:55
KotCzarnyotoh i could have compiled it myself07:56
KotCzarny:)07:56
koyotereally could use a deb for that :)07:56
KotCzarnyi can give you a binary :)07:56
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KotCzarnyah, sorry, it was libXpm07:57
KotCzarny:)07:57
KotCzarnylibXaw should be installed07:57
KotCzarnyif not: apt-get install libxaw707:58
KotCzarny:)07:58
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koyoteah, good then08:00
koyotei was trying apt-get install libXaw, duh08:00
Italodanceinally done08:00
KotCzarnyapt-cache search xaw08:00
Italodancei installed ukmp manually :D08:00
KotCzarnyshould show you what's in the menu08:00
* KotCzarny learned it few days ago08:01
KotCzarny:)08:01
KotCzarnyprobably yesterday08:01
KotCzarny;)08:01
KotCzarnyQ: Is the Nokia N800 a PDA, a smart phone, a UMPC, or a media player? A: I don't care.08:02
KotCzarnyhehe08:02
koyoteit's a Real Computer08:03
KotCzarnypersonal computer08:03
KotCzarny:)08:03
KotCzarnyreal computer suck power in megawatts08:03
KotCzarny;)08:03
KotCzarny*computers08:03
koyotenot anymore08:06
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koyotei mean, seriously. the frist cluster we built in VA when i worked for uunet was 12 javastations and drew only a couple amps.08:07
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KotCzarny'only'08:08
KotCzarny:)08:08
koyotewell, yeah. but we never could get a stable enough solaris going on the palms08:08
koyoteno mmu. bad behavior08:09
KotCzarnyhehe08:09
koyote"real hackers don't read docs"?08:11
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koyoteokay, modified the docsucker, now let's see about the emacs install08:17
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KotCzarnyhmm08:26
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cLinanyone use the poi on maemo mapper?08:29
* KotCzarny used it once08:29
cLini cant seem to add or import pois08:30
cLin=\08:30
KotCzarnyright tap on the map and click on 'download'08:30
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cLincant download either08:31
cLinkeeps saying no pois found, cant add pois08:31
KotCzarnytry new york city area08:32
cLinhuh?08:33
cLinlos angeles area doesn't work?08:33
cLinor even importing08:33
KotCzarnyi don't know, i just suggest a test08:33
KotCzarny:)08:33
cLini tried importing this gpx file i found online and it doesn't work. converted it to garmin gpx file and it doesn't find anypois08:33
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cLinhrm08:35
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koyoteuh oh08:38
koyotebad juju08:38
koyotecannot find info directory node!08:39
KotCzarnyhmm08:39
KotCzarnywhat was the firefox build for maemo?08:40
KotCzarnythat was faster than microb?08:40
koyoteof course, no one here uses emacs08:40
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LynoureRMS's Emacs should be more like Eclipse was funny...08:50
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tank-manI am looking in /usr/share/doc and i see a readme left by08:55
tank-mandocpurge08:55
tank-mancan i get back all the docs removed?08:56
tank-manwith some apt command?08:56
KotCzarnyprobably not08:56
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KotCzarnybecause all of them run docpurge while installing?08:56
KotCzarnyor more08:56
KotCzarnythey run that command before packaging a .deb?08:56
KotCzarny:)08:56
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tank-mansome blog says it gets run by the package manager08:57
KotCzarnymaybe both08:57
koyoteyep08:57
koyotei edited the file08:57
koyoteand anything that has the docco included is now fine.08:58
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koyote(well, after reinstalling)08:58
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1IYuz6ROlk09:19
KotCzarnyneeeed..09:19
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koyoteand....09:22
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koyotei want my phone to do that09:23
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.hersenscheet.com/loi/ringtone3.mid09:27
KotCzarnyhah09:27
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koyoteand here we go?09:29
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KotCzarnyround and around09:29
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KotCzarnywith a leek09:29
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koyote`yah09:30
koyote`n800 erc09:30
koyotenice09:32
koyotei am happy09:32
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JaffaMorning, all09:39
koyote`oi09:39
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koyote`yeeee09:55
koyote`http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/MaemoEmacs09:55
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scriptomg ;)09:58
scriptdoes it need external sotrage on mmc ;) ?09:59
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koyote`no, not technically.10:02
koyote`i use external storage because i wanted emacs and binutils and bash and coreutils and wesnoth......10:02
koyote`i suppose a compiler would be handy at this rate10:02
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mrklawanyone know where I can get xchat for os2008?10:18
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koyotedunno if you can10:19
koyotelots of people using pidgin10:19
koyotei have erc (emacs)10:19
mrklawI've seen xchat for os2007 but now that I wan't it, I can't find it for os200810:19
koyotenot something i use, i'm an emacs junkie10:20
mrklawah, I just needed to search for chinook instead of maemo. http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/10:20
koyotemy wife will like that if i get her an 80010:21
koyoteokay, the homeless guy in the parking lot behind my house can stop coughing up a lung now10:22
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GeneralAntillesYou should ask him if he minds dying a little more quietly.10:26
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koyotewell, i'm debating calling the police. he sounds pretty bad.10:26
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koyotebut i REALLY hate police involvement. i do NOT want to talk to them.10:27
KotCzarnycall the kkk knights then10:27
mrklaw_I'm on my n800 with xchat now10:27
Jaffakoyote: send them an email (or call 0118 999 811 95423 759.... 3)10:28
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KotCzarnyor drink some drencrom and get ready for some ultraviolence10:31
KotCzarny:)10:31
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KotCzarny  |> Leva's Breaks - Beatnick vs Loituma ()10:32
aquatixmorning all10:35
Cptn-N800Google documents is a slow POS10:35
aquatixgoogle reader also</random>10:36
Cptn-N800How stable/useful is gnumeric these days?10:37
Cptn-N800For spreadsheets10:37
KotCzarnyspread your sheets wide!10:38
aquatixgnumeric is really nice imho10:38
* aquatix prefers gnumeric over OOo Calc even10:38
jottit has some usability issues but works fine10:38
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jottmost prevailing one that it won't write to a cell when you type - atleast on the version i have10:39
mrklaw_google reader is fast for me now10:40
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Cptn-N800Umm10:41
Cptn-N800Any specific reason gnumeric ignores igo kb input?10:41
jott^^10:42
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jottyou have to select the = [ ....  ] field on top10:42
jottto write10:42
KotCzarnyhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000II6YEA?ie=UTF8&tag=showitem06-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000II6YEA10:42
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KotCzarnydoh. how much?10:42
mrklaw_i use the iphone useragent to get the googl reader for mobiles10:42
Cptn-N800Thx...lol thats rather annoying10:42
KotCzarnyotoh ir sensor could be nice for turning off tvs on the go10:43
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KotCzarny:>10:43
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mrklaw_ouch, over $300 for a remote?10:44
jotthehe get a n810 instead and us that as a remote ;)10:45
KotCzarny500 on original price tag10:45
aquatixmrklaw_: you can also go to google.com/reader/m ;)10:50
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KotCzarnynice ramble: http://ets.tlt.psu.edu/iphone/node/20210:51
KotCzarny:)10:52
jotthm http://www.novii.tv/palm/blaster/ :)10:53
KotCzarnyhmm10:53
KotCzarnynice10:53
KotCzarny:)10:53
KotCzarnyand thanks to xrandr sd port can be in the right place10:55
KotCzarny;)10:55
jott;)10:55
KotCzarnynow.. where's the price tag..10:55
Cptn-N800Gnumeric is indeed nice...excel compatability needed10:56
KotCzarny18$ hum10:56
KotCzarny:>10:56
jottmight be worth a try :)10:57
KotCzarny28 with s&h10:57
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KotCzarnyi wonder if it's supported by kernel10:57
jottdepends as what it registeres is suppose10:57
KotCzarnyyeah10:57
KotCzarnyif it's serial port..10:58
KotCzarny:)10:58
jottother than that you could use your computer or a openwrt box with a lirc deivce attached :)10:59
jottthat's like 1-2$ for the parts ;)11:00
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KotCzarnyhum11:01
KotCzarnyi wonder11:01
KotCzarnythere's only 'mmc block device' in the kernel11:02
jottbut it's an sdio slot isn't it?!11:02
KotCzarnybut you still need a driver, right?11:02
KotCzarny:)11:02
jottprobably11:02
jottwell for the lirc thingy you won't need a driver ;)11:03
jottmaybe some nice gui ;)11:03
KotCzarnyyeah, there was a soundcardir :>11:03
KotCzarnysomeone should start selling them nicely integrated11:04
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jottor mod the LED in the corner - replace it with an ir diode ;)11:05
KotCzarnynah11:05
KotCzarnyno cover crushing11:06
KotCzarny:)11:06
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jotthey it's just some smd soldering :)11:06
KotCzarny'just'11:06
KotCzarny:)11:06
KotCzarnyi can't even do NORMAL soldering11:06
mrklaw_have a good night11:06
KotCzarny;)11:06
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KotCzarnyamazon sux.11:07
KotCzarnyorder date: 11 mar11:07
KotCzarnyestimated arrival date: 30 mar11:07
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JaffaWhoa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1212 is amazing. There is both a) activity, b) ownership, c) a comment saying at what revision it's been fixed.11:51
KotCzarnywow11:51
KotCzarnysomeone actually reads those bugs?11:51
KotCzarnybah, even resolves?11:51
KotCzarny:)11:52
JaffaMust've been a fluke. Won't happen again ;-)11:52
KotCzarnyi wonder what will happen after filling a bug 'no mbx libs in sdk/device, can't use pwoervr'11:54
KotCzarny;)11:54
kulvego ahead11:54
KotCzarnyi'm not registered :/11:54
KotCzarnybut it would be interesting what's the nokia's stance in this case11:56
kulveif they would answer "no" in a sensible way then the url would be easy to paste to everyone asking about it..11:58
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KotCzarnyi'm interested: 1/ what is the reason it's not enabled, 2/ is it possible to enable and actually use it, 3/ will there be sdk/runtime support, 4/ is it planned12:00
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KotCzarnyif anyone could post it..12:02
KotCzarnyi'm off to bed anyway :)12:02
KotCzarnynight people12:02
JaffaGuessing at the answers: 1) a combination of cost and hardware architecture making it tricky to use well; 2) not in any supported way; 3) Nokia do not comment on future device capabilities; 4) Nokia do not comment on the capabilities of any future devices.12:02
KotCzarnyfuture?12:02
Jaffas/devices/devices or ITOS releases/12:03
infobotJaffa meant: Guessing at the answers: 1) a combination of cost and hardware architecture making it tricky to use well; 2) not in any supported way; 3) Nokia do not comment on future device capabilities; 4) Nokia do not comment on the capabilities of any future devices...12:03
KotCzarnybot failed12:03
KotCzarnyhehe12:03
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pupniki love how loud the n810 is... it's surreal12:11
pupnikbut i think this is standard tech now12:11
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_massi_hello!12:30
aquatixpupnik: too bad it is standard, as i really dislike those annoying people playing loud music in the train or metro from their cellphones12:34
* aquatix is getting old and cranky ;)12:34
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Italodance:D12:43
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AStormok, who will give me vim-7 package for maemo?12:45
AStormnot conflicting with busybox12:46
pupniki prefer the 300kb BSD vi12:46
pupnikto the 7 MB vim12:46
AStormnvi is suck12:47
AStormno support for buffers = fail12:47
pupniknvi?12:47
AStormnvi = BSD vi12:48
AStormso, where can I grab the package from?12:48
pupnikah, i never use multiple buffers12:48
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andrewtaylor_Hi, is this a good channel to talk about the N810 device, or, can someone suggest a more appropriate one?12:49
AStormthe best one12:49
AStorm:)12:49
dpb___AStorm: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/vim/12:50
AStormhmm, not in repo? weird...12:50
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kulveandrewtaylor_: yeah, this is the channel12:51
andrewtaylor_I'm trying to work out which phone I should upgrade to so I can use it as a modem with an 810. Vodafone UK can't help me, they say I should get a datacard.12:52
AStormthey're so wrong12:52
andrewtaylor_yup12:52
AStormyou need a new HSDPA phone12:53
AStormany will do12:53
AStormnow that both bt DUN and PAN are supported12:53
kulveandrewtaylor_: basically any phone with bluetooth works. If you want more speed, then the model matters..12:53
glassany phone with bluetooth dun12:53
glassnot any phone with bluetooth has it12:53
andrewtaylor_They say that it won't be able to access the internet, because the tariffs that are attached to phones don't support it. I thought I could just get the £25 a month 3GB package added to my existing phone but they say it doesn't work like that.12:54
pupnikandrewtaylor_: probably TMI but here's the forums on "pairing + phone" http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=152628612:54
AStormglass, now there's a pan driver too12:54
AStormso that doeesn't matter12:54
glassAStorm: of course it matters12:55
AStormwell, nope12:55
glassAStorm: you don't get to net with iphone through it's pt, pan or not12:55
glassbt12:55
AStormthat's because iphone is locked12:55
glassnot locked, feature lacking...12:56
AStormfeature? doesn't have pan or dun? suck!12:56
glass(well doh it's locked, but the bt support is not about it per se)12:56
glassintentionally lacking for some weird reason12:56
glasssame applies to lot of other phones12:56
AStormso that apple can sell some attachment12:56
glassand operators wanting to limit data use to the handset12:56
AStormwell, Siemens S700 should be nice12:57
glassso buying just any phone without checking it can do the stuff is stupid12:57
AStormsymbian too12:57
AStormall Nokias are fine too12:57
AStormSymbian phones will work out of box, at least here13:00
AStormour ISPs don't limit data that way13:00
AStormjust a transfer limit13:00
AStorm:P13:00
_massi_I'd need help on this: since when I installed OS2008 on my n800 I have problems with my bluetooth GPS unit, which worked *perfectly* with the previous OS... the problem *seems* that the bluetooth link is unreliable13:01
kulve_massi_: sounds a bit odd. I've tested couple of gps devices without that kind of problems..13:02
_massi_both maemo-mapper and the map application suffer from it... maemo-mapper says it loses the gps link, while the map application just says it cannot get the fix (while the gps led on the unit says the fix is ok)13:02
_massi_kulve: yes, I found nothing googling about this :-(13:03
andrewtaylor_what about the speed of the bluetooth, can it support a 3g connection?13:03
AStormandrewtaylor_: easily13:03
GeneralAntillesLimited to about 50KB/sec with DUN13:03
AStormthat, yup13:03
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GeneralAntillesBe around 120KB/sec with PAN13:04
andrewtaylor_so I should look for HSDPA phones with PAN profiles?13:04
AStormbut should be faster13:04
_massi_kulve: If I wanted to investigate, where should I look at?13:04
AStormmhm13:04
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kulve_massi_: sorry, I don't really have clues either..13:04
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AStormGeneralAntilles: why the limit?13:04
kulve_massi_: test with other BT device?13:04
AStormn can't keep upyü13:04
GeneralAntillesDUN has a shitton of overhead.13:04
AStormup?13:04
_massi_kulve: I don't own any :-(13:04
GeneralAntilles_massi_, OS2008 here, no problems at all with BT devices.13:04
AStormBT should have some mbit13:05
GeneralAntillesDid you restore a backup?13:05
kulvehttp://www.mobileinfo.com/Bluetooth/FAQ.htm#t513:05
GeneralAntillesAStorm, DUN is the bottleneck, not BT.13:05
kulve"A: Bluetooth transfers data at a rate of 721 Kbps"13:05
kulvedunno if that's true..13:05
AStormso, cpu too weak?13:05
AStormkulve: that's bt 1.013:05
_massi_GeneralAntilles: no, I did a clean install and reconfigured manually13:05
kulveAStorm: ok13:06
GeneralAntillesThe spec has a ton overhead which sucks up BT bandwidth.13:06
GeneralAntillesA variety of things.13:06
GeneralAntillesNot CPU bound, though.13:06
GeneralAntillesI'm not entirely certain what all is involved.13:06
GeneralAntillesBut the profile is the limitation, anyway.13:06
GeneralAntilles_massi_, dunno, I haven't observed any BT issues with two (well, four, if you count two 770s) OS2008 devices.13:07
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_massi_GeneralAntilles: but how can I see what's really going on there? would strace work on the tablet? or is there some easier way of looking at it?13:08
AStormstrace and ltrace are available13:09
AStormbut tracing bt isn't done with these13:09
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AStormwhere do I stick the def file for ukeyboard?13:10
_massi_AStorm: so, how do I trace what happens on the bt link?13:11
AStormhmm13:12
AStormnot sure13:12
andrewtaylor_hmm, it seems the data plan is more confusing than the phone choice. There are so many HSDPA phones.13:12
AStorm:P13:12
AStormyes, the data plans are funny13:13
andrewtaylor_i think the providers are so worried about voip, they make data hard13:13
AStormhere you pay a premium13:13
AStormand data is limited13:13
andrewtaylor_where's here?13:14
AStormit's cheaper just to use the plan13:14
AStormPoland .013:14
AStorm:P13:14
andrewtaylor_oh ok13:14
AStormfree minutes and all13:15
andrewtaylor_Nokia E51 looks good and is available with my provider but doesn't seem to support PAN.13:15
AStormit does if ou install symbian driver for it?13:16
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GeneralAntillesDUN isn't the end of the world.13:16
GeneralAntillesSo if it's not convenient to get PAN, I wouldn't put TOO much energy into it.13:17
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andrewtaylor_If i'm going to take a new 2 year contract, I think I'd like to make sure i'm not limited in 6 months time.13:20
AStorm:P13:20
GeneralAntillesThe limits on DUN or PAN wont change in 6 months. :\13:22
GeneralAntilles3g speeds are in the 7Mbps range for newer phones.13:22
andrewtaylor_yes, but if I get a 7Mbps phone, I don't want to be restrict to 50Kb downloads because of DUN13:23
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GeneralAntillesPAN will only get you about 100-120KB/sec13:23
GeneralAntillesSo, like I said, it's not an incredibly important thing to get if it's inconvenient.13:23
andrewtaylor_that's at least doble DUN though13:23
Lynoureanyone tried a 3g modem directly with N8x0?13:25
LynoureI know the Huawei ones work decently in linux in general...13:26
GeneralAntillesI'm fairly certain it was mentioned on ITT13:27
GeneralAntillesCradlepoint 3g/wifi routers seem to be a better route, though.13:27
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GeneralAntillesBe interesting if you could use them without a $60/mo ISP data plan.13:28
LynoureGeneralAntilles: here, yes...13:28
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GeneralAntillesAlthough I might consider switching from cable if the latency weren't so bad.13:29
LynoureGeneralAntilles: here they come with a 10> / month  euro data plans (limited speed, 'unlimited' amount)13:30
Lynoures/>/€>/13:30
infobotLynoure meant: GeneralAntilles: here they come with a 10€> / month  euro data plans (limited speed, 'unlimited' amount)13:30
GeneralAntillesSpeed limited to?13:30
LynoureGeneralAntilles: Depends on the monthly fee... I can check...13:30
GeneralAntillesI get "unlimited" speed and data for $2013:31
GeneralAntillesBut I'm technically violating the ToS by tethering.13:31
Lynoure384 kbit/s for the 10 euro one, up to 2 Mbit/s for the 30 euro one.13:31
Lynouretethering?13:31
GeneralAntillesBluetooth tethering.13:32
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LynoureThat is, by using it for your N8x0 through bluetooth?13:32
LynoureThat a crumpy limitation of them.13:33
GeneralAntillesEh, US carriers aren't keen on data usage13:33
LynoureWhat else is bluetooth for, really =)13:33
GeneralAntillesWe get much better voice plans, though. ;)13:33
GeneralAntillesGPS, inter-device, keyboards, remote controls.13:33
GeneralAntillesWiimotes. ;)13:34
Lynoureouch. Good thing the carriers here don't have such limitations, at least never seen one yet.13:35
GeneralAntillesEh, it works out13:36
GeneralAntillesMost US customers are heavy voice users.13:36
GeneralAntillesThose with data are primarily business customers.13:36
glassus is just late13:38
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GeneralAntilles /huge13:39
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kharraswhy13:44
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Italodancehuh?13:50
Italodancechinook = 4.1 ?13:52
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GeneralAntillesDiablo = 4.1, evidently. :\13:53
Italodancetnx13:53
kulvechinook = 4.0.113:53
Italodancechinook = .... ?13:53
Italodance:D13:53
AStormdiablo isn't out yet13:53
GeneralAntillesChinook = 4.013:53
pupnikFor your tablet: free lectures (mp3) on austrian economics and liberty.  http://mises.org/media.aspx13:54
Italodanceguys i installed ukmp manually :D13:54
GeneralAntillesMmm, thanks pupnik!13:54
Italodanceinfact download all pythons and libs then move to my tablet with usb cable and installed all package one by one...13:54
Italodancesomeone has libungif4g ?13:55
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pupniklibungif4g is available from repository.maemo.org13:56
pupnikItalodance: use http://gronmayer.com/it to search for packages13:57
Italodancepupnik yes but i couldn't find it there...13:57
Italodanceon repository.maemo.org13:57
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pupnikItalodance: get root access in xterm14:00
pupnikthen type14:00
pupnikapt-get update14:00
pupnikapt-get install libungif4g14:00
kharraswhy14:00
kharrasI asked why14:04
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AStorm:P14:07
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kharraswhy14:12
lopzmorning14:13
GNUtonHi14:13
kharras¨why14:13
Lynourekharras: why what?14:16
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kharraswhat do you mean14:17
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GeneralAntillesDon't feed the troll, Lynoure.14:23
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kharrasI am not a troll, you star wars relict14:29
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janiAnyone knows if its possible to attach "focus-(in/out)-event" signal to HildonFindToolbar ?14:31
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janidoesnt seem to work currently atleast.14:32
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webustanyhi there14:33
webustanyis there a way to use mplayer as an audio backend for canola2 beta ?14:34
GeneralAntillesIt uses mplayer.14:34
webustanyhmmm... it does not see my m4a files14:36
GeneralAntillesDid you add the directories they're in into the search index?14:36
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webustanyyes14:36
webustanyit does only see mp3 files14:36
* GeneralAntilles shrugs.14:37
GeneralAntillesI'm sure it's been covered in one of the threads on ITT.14:38
GeneralAntillesThey wouldn't happen to be protected, would they?14:38
jottwell tagging will not be handled by mplayer i suppose :p14:38
johnxGeneralAntilles, I think that canola doesn't necessarily display everything mplayer can play14:38
webustanyno, they're not14:38
GeneralAntillesmplayer doesn't have anything to do with media scanning.14:38
webustanyabout tagging... I don't know14:38
jottwell thats the problem..14:39
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webustanyi'm gonna look on ITT14:40
GeneralAntillesIf you don't find anything, post in the latest beta thread14:41
GeneralAntillesI'm sure handful will be there to triage for you in minutes.14:41
GeneralAntilles(that man is a machine)14:41
jottmaybe same applies for ogg14:41
webustanyok, thanks for the tip14:41
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webustanyhmm, i didn't tested ogg14:41
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GeneralAntillesYou don't get the kind of support the INdT guys give from most commercial software companies. <_<14:43
jotton the other hand you can't run and fix it by yourself without the source ;)14:43
GeneralAntillesMeh, 99% of people don't have the skills to do that anyway.14:44
GeneralAntillesThey contribute way more than their fair share to open source projects in the process of making Canola awesome, anyway.14:44
jottsure about the 99% in the ITOS world? :)14:45
GeneralAntillesMaybe 95%14:47
GeneralAntillesIt's still not a high percentage.14:47
GeneralAntillesBesides, how many problems actually get fixed that way?14:48
GeneralAntillesLook at all of Nokia's open source stuff that still sucks.14:48
GeneralAntillesNobody has gone in and fixed those.14:48
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jottsure things get fixed if they annoy people14:49
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GeneralAntillesApplication Manager is the epitome of annoying.14:49
GeneralAntillesNobody has fixed it.14:49
GeneralAntillesWeak argument.14:49
GeneralAntillesI get your point, but still.14:50
jottapplication maanger is not worth the effort14:50
johnxGUI package management is a bad example...14:50
jottmost advanced poeple dont use it anyway14:50
GeneralAntillesOK, hildon-desktop.14:50
GeneralAntillesPlenty of annoyances there.14:50
GeneralAntillesNobody has fixed it.14:50
jotthmm which?14:50
jottits part of gnome now so other people work on it14:51
jottyou probably would get some fixes if you used a recent upstream version i guess..14:52
jottbut probably this would break closed nokia stuff..14:52
johnxgah...I need to have a good long hack at resolution dependent stuff for hildon desktop themes :/14:53
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I don't think there's much hacking on Nokia's open source stuff cos none of its development happens in an open way. Who'll hack on Application Manager when the sacred "UI specification" is closed?14:54
jottheh how far is this gone upstream wise? as many planned devices won't be 800x480...14:54
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* Jaffa thinks Hildon itself is now very independent, but the theming isn't14:54
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johnxI think the things that will use other resolutions will use that weird ubuntu mobile flash desktop instead of "hildon desktop"14:55
johnxof course they'll still use apps based on hildon libs (which seem nicely resolution independent)14:56
johnxin fact I'm quite surprised by how un-broken things are with rotation enabled14:56
GeneralAntillesThat damn UI spec.14:57
GeneralAntillesWhere do we burn the people who came up with that thing?14:57
GeneralAntillesHeck, where do we file bugs against it? :\14:57
GeneralAntillesIt's like they hired a team of people to make it with the express intention of making things harder on the user.14:57
jotthehe maybe they asked their S60 UI team *g*14:59
johnxAnyways, my point about GUI package managers is that more often than not that is one of the most neglected areas of a linux desktop env14:59
Italodancephonelink don't work on my tablet ? why :(  it's the latest version14:59
GeneralAntillesjott, that doesn't seem all that unlikely.15:00
SDuensinMorning.15:01
GeneralAntillesEvery single retarded thing we run into seems to stem from that spec. <_<15:02
GeneralAntillesWhy can't you organize the MicroB bookmarks how you want them? UI spec15:02
GeneralAntillesWhy is the bundled xterm retarded? UI spec15:02
johnxand therein lies on of the reasons for lack of fixes: if userA hacks xterm to work the way they want do they have *any* expectation that upstream will accept that patch?15:04
johnx(or at least one of the theoretical reasons)15:04
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GeneralAntillesWe need a team of people to break into Nokia and beat them all silly with frozen trouts.15:06
johnxI'm in. I'll start a pool for bus fare to get there. :D15:07
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jkyroI might be able to spare a few for the trouts15:07
Italodancehi johnx :D15:08
GeneralAntilles"Stupid. *thwack* Shit. *thwack* Should. *thwack* Not. *thwack* Be. *thwack* Stupid. *thwack* For. *thwack* The. *thwack* Sake. *thwack* Of. *thwack* Stupidity."15:08
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Italodanceis there any tool for unrar?15:12
WormFoodgood evening gents (and I use that term loosely)15:12
WormFoodItalodance, did you try "unrar"?15:12
ItalodanceWormFood no where is it?15:13
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Italodancei couldn't find it at http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/15:14
WormFoodI don't know if there is one for the n800, but I know there is an unrar utility for Linux15:14
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Italodanceummm i want it for comix15:15
wom-http://packages.debian.org/unrar there seems to be one package for armel15:15
Italodanceumm yes but can work for maemo?15:17
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Italodancei found it repository.maemo.org/contrib/pool/bora/free/u/unrar-nonfree15:17
WormFoodsooo...did anyone fix that dhcp problem while I was gone? *evil grin*15:19
Italodancedhcp?15:19
WormFoodyes15:19
WormFooddhcp does not get an IP from some routers on the n80015:20
Italodanceohh i don't know sorry15:20
Italodancei couldn't install canola 2 ,libetk don't want to installl :"''''''''(15:21
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KhertanHi !15:25
WormFoodgreetings!15:25
Italodancehi Khertan15:27
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pupnikIt is difficult to install things to N800 when offline Italodance  :(15:31
JaffaGeneralAntilles: count me in on stupid thwacking15:31
GeneralAntillesI don't mind stupid things being stupid due to lack of time/resources/people, or technical difficulties, or something15:32
GeneralAntillesbut stupid things being stupid for the sake of stupidity is amount the most frustrating thing I can imagine.15:33
JaffaBut stupid-by-design... <shudder/>15:33
pupnikIs it closed-source?15:34
JaffaThe UI spec is15:34
pupnikNo, i mean can you modify the browser to your liking and recompile?15:34
GeneralAntillestablet-browser is closed.15:34
pupnikIt is not based on GPL?15:35
pupnikmicrob?15:35
jottwell either LGPL or MPL15:35
Italodancepupnik offline yes i know but i don't have ither way :"'(15:35
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puslingis it possible somehow to get usb networking working and still have your the mmc cards mounted ?15:35
pupnikItalodance: can you connect your N800 to the internet?15:36
GeneralAntillesMicroB is open15:36
Italodancepupnik no! not yet...i just use it on some wlan places15:36
jottpupnik: define "mounted" you can use sshfs, nfs, * ...15:36
GeneralAntillestablet-browser is not.15:36
jotterm pusling15:36
jottpu[tab][tab] ;)15:37
Italodancepupnik i need to unistall gnokii_0.6.24-os2008_armel.deb  ????15:38
puslingjott: the n800 guides I have seen have all of them described the need for umounting the mmc cards before you can properly modprobe g_ether15:38
Italodancei installed phonelink_1.2.0-os2008_armel.deb and gnokii-gconf_0[1].6.1-os2008_armel.deb15:38
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pupnikI don't know what gnokkii is Italodance, but i suggest you figure out a way to connect N800 to internet.  Perhaps you can use USB networking to connect through your computer15:38
pupnikafk15:39
jottpusling: yes, you have to unmount them and you can remount them via another protocol like sshfs15:39
JaffaDoes phonelink have a GUI now? It never used to, but seeing as it's getting so much press recently, I wondered if that situation's changed15:39
Italodancepupnik USB networking.....of hard work....15:39
puslingjott: how mount them via another protocol ?  If I umount them in the n800, it just sits there unused ?15:40
jottpusling: if you have usb networking you should have an ip connection hence you can use this for transfer of files15:41
jotti suppose there is a wiki entry how to do this right15:41
jotthttp://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/setting_up_usb_networking.html15:42
Italodancejott tnx i see15:43
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GeneralAntillesThere's a statusbar applet that'll handle it all for you.15:47
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puslingjott: I still need to umount mmc2 before I can modprobe g_ether15:55
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strayhikariJaffa: tried your media converter last night, worked like a charm16:00
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strayhikariI converted to 400x240, I read on the forums that people were getting good performance with it, which resolution do you use?16:01
Italodancestrayhikari 400x240 is perfect16:02
GeneralAntillesUp to 5xx horizontal can give you good results with low-motion stuff.16:02
kulveI use 640:240 with mencoder and I'm happy with the result16:03
GeneralAntillesGuaranteed to give you framedrop.16:03
kulvemaybe on some very high-motions scenes, but mostly looks just good (with mplayer)16:03
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GeneralAntillesYeah, anything 6xx will give you a lot of framedrop even with medium motion stuff.16:04
GeneralAntillesNot recommended.16:04
kulveI disagree16:04
Italodancekulve lol ur tablet can read 640:240?16:04
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kulvethat's what I've been using16:05
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GeneralAntillesSome people handle framedrop better than others.16:06
GeneralAntillesBut trust me, framedrop you will have with horizontal resolutions over 600px16:06
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ItalodanceGeneralAntilles i always use 1700 bitrate   =  bluray quality :D16:10
kulveGeneralAntilles: are you now talking about some specific codec? and specific application? and specific audio codec? and specific height? and specific bitrate? Or is the 600px the only limit?16:10
GeneralAntillesAssuming decent MPEG416:10
GeneralAntillesItalodance, that wont play on the N80016:11
GeneralAntillesand 1700Kbps != Bluray quality.16:11
ItalodanceGeneralAntilles yes i am watching 1700Kbps bitrate with my mplayer16:12
GeneralAntillesMaybe at very low resolution with framedrop.16:12
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Italodanceand the best tool is PocketDivXEncoder_0.3.96 FOREVER! besure :D16:12
pupnikMy media player will be pandora.  Tv-out, dual fullsize SD and omap353016:13
GeneralAntillesHow much are they planning on selling for anyway, pupnik?16:13
pupnik300 bucks16:13
GeneralAntillesNot even sure it's worth it seeing how horrifyingly ugly it is. <_<16:13
Jaffa:)16:14
GeneralAntillesIt's like they got a bunch of 3rd graders to design it.16:14
jottform follows function ;P16:14
pupnikIf they can produce it at all it will be a small miracle16:14
* Jaffa 'll look at pandora when it actually exists and people have them16:14
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GeneralAntillesjott, the color selection has nothing at all to do with function.16:14
GeneralAntillesNor the horrifyingly ugly keys.16:15
jottthey do! *stomp*16:15
pupnikhehe16:15
jottbut i16:15
jottm really amazed that they did not ask some serious product designer ;p16:15
jottpupnik: do you know how much money is in the company?16:16
* GeneralAntilles is more interested in Pandora code running on an N900.16:16
jottlike do they get backing from some big investor?16:16
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jotthehe n900 will run windows mobile ;P16:17
pupnikjott the design ideas have been discussed to death and they have gone with the 'no patent violation' and 'functional' design16:17
pupnikif you want sexy, get ipod16:17
Jaffajott: a little unlikely, that ;-)16:17
jottyeah sure..16:17
jotthmm16:17
GeneralAntillesSexy isn't want I want, something that I wont be embarrassed to be seen with in public is. :P16:17
Jaffa:)16:17
jottstill they need some money to bring this to a factory16:17
pupnikyes there are private investors16:18
jottand either they need a big company or some venture capital16:18
pupnikthey reduced the unnecessary things that would have jacked up prices16:18
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jottlike opengl drivers? *scnr* :)16:19
TobotrasHow do I move screen applets? Pressing clock applet, for example, fires clock application...16:20
jottstill would be nice to see them in real world16:20
JaffaTobotras: you need to drag it without touching it first; I "sweep" down in a curve and pick it up16:20
TobotrasJaffa: erhm...16:21
GeneralAntillesDon't pause.16:22
GeneralAntillesJust tap and MOVE.16:22
TobotrasI see. The best results is from using of thumb instead of stilo :)16:22
JaffaIt's easy when you know how, just impossible to describe :-)16:22
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TobotrasJaffa: LOL16:28
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janiTobotras: it depends on where you click and drag..16:36
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janiTobotras: try dragging from right side of the applet, it shouldnt trigger clock..16:37
Tobotrasjani: find the silver bullet: use the thumb :)16:38
Tobotrasfound16:38
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pppoe_dudeis gizmo encryption17:00
pppoe_dudeencrypted*?17:01
WormFoodwhat? the executable or the network traffic? (I don't know the answer to either one, just trying to clarify your question)17:07
pppoe_dudenetwork traffic17:08
pppoe_dude(i.e. audio, etc)17:08
WormFoodI feel it is rather unlikely that it is17:08
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Lynourehttp://support.gizmoproject.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=printable&kbarticleid=327#19 is the closest I found17:10
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XtagonI'm anxious to start developing for Maemo 4.0, and I'm beginning the tutorial, but I have an issue. The scratchbox install script says I can't install it on x86_64. All the OS's I have installed are 64-bit. Do I need to install a 32-bit OS to develop, or can I trick it into working somehow?17:35
JaffaXtagon: no, it works quite well.17:36
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XtagonChecking for prerequisites17:36
Xtagon--------------------------17:36
XtagonRunning as user root... yes17:36
XtagonNot running as user root inside fakeroot... yes17:36
XtagonRunning outside of scratchbox... yes17:36
XtagonRunning on Linux kernel... yes17:36
XtagonRunning on i386 architecture... no17:36
XtagonE: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture.17:36
JaffaXtagon: just run the installer as 'setarch i386 ./installer.sh"17:36
XtagonThanks, I'll try that : )17:37
XtagonWorks great : D17:39
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Italodancefriends my mplayer can't read *.mp4 files,,,,what can i do? is there any setting?17:45
ItalodanceRathann|work my mp4 videos are converted by Internet Tablet Video Converter17:45
Italodancemy media player can read them and no mplayer or ukmp17:46
Italodancemy mplayer is 2417:46
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Italodancewell it can read mp4 videos but very slow17:46
Italodanceand it unable to update 25 / 26  why?17:46
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JaffaItalodance: mplayer's not well optimised for mp417:49
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ItalodanceJaffa ummm is there any setting? or another way?17:49
qwerty12Who's tried Bundyo's Rc2 version of Mplayer. Much more of an improvement. Flv works perfectly and the menu is a hackers dream :p17:49
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JaffaItalodance: use Media Player for your MP4 files. Canola automatically switches to using it, rather than mplayer for playback17:50
Jaffaqwerty12: nope, not seen it17:50
pppoe_dudeLynoure, thanks17:50
qwerty12wait a sec, i'll bring up the link. I love it17:50
qwerty12http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18231&highlight=mplayer17:51
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ItalodanceJaffa  ukmp can switch to?17:52
qwerty12Does anybody know if gnome-doc-utils >= 0.10.0 exists for armel target or will I have to try and hopelessly compile it myself? I found gnome-doc-utils (v. 0.6.1-3.maemo2) but it doesn't work with the thing I am trying to compile.17:53
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ItalodanceJaffa yes my Media Player can play good all mp4 videos17:55
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JaffaItalodance: dunno, ask kontorri?17:56
GeneralAntillesI doubt it.17:57
JaffaGeneralAntilles: tablet-encode v2.18's going to have an 'mplayer' preset back. My mencoder doesn't like vbitrate >= 1300, says "bitrate above max bitrate"17:57
* Jaffa too, TBH17:57
GeneralAntillesGood stuff, Jaffa.17:57
* GeneralAntilles <3's mediautils.17:58
JaffaGeneralAntilles: what's the max vbitrate you've used?17:58
GeneralAntillesI haven't really done any heavy testing with high bitrates.17:59
GeneralAntillesProbably 1200Kbps or so with a 512xsomething South Park episode.17:59
GeneralAntillesWorked fine.17:59
GeneralAntillesSupposedly rm_you has had luck with 400x240 at 1400Kbps17:59
JaffaHmm. Oh well, 2.18'll also have the ability to add your own presets in a ~/.tablet-encode.conf17:59
* Jaffa wonders if his Gutsy-provided mencoder is a bit crap18:00
strayhikariJaffa, I have some ogg files with a couple different audio streams and subtitles18:03
strayhikarican media converter handle those?18:03
JaffaWhich media converter? tablet-encode should be able to, with appropriate options18:04
strayhikarihmm let me check18:04
* Jaffa 's support only extends to his own ;-)18:04
strayhikarihehe18:05
strayhikariI tried media converter last night18:05
strayhikariI should try tablet-encode it sounds like?18:05
JaffaDunno, does http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.html sound like something you'd like?18:08
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strayhikariJaffa sounds pretty cool to me18:16
strayhikaribuilding it up18:16
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Aha, it's the vrc_maxrate thing which needs to be smarter :-)18:17
strayhikariwow even better18:19
strayhikariI'm an arch user, didn't know if you knew this, but somebody built tablet-encode and put it in our user repositories18:19
strayhikarilooks like the version is outdated though, 2.0.2 and your newest is 2.0.17?18:22
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Jaffastrayhikari: correct.18:23
strayhikaricool, works like a charm18:25
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Italodanceummm availabe a video tuner for n800?19:03
JaffaVideo "tuner"?19:04
puslingwhat part of the boot process is responsible for the device nodes (and the access) to the memory cards on n800 ?  (I want to start a application from a memory card during boot)19:04
Veggen_WormFood? there? think I do have a similar dhcp problem....19:04
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ItalodanceJaffa ah ah mistake tv tuner19:05
inzpusling, I think it, at least used to be, ke-recv that mounts the memory cards19:06
inz+is19:06
dtahtbotinz: Error: "is" is not a valid command.19:06
inzGrr19:06
qwerty12+i am stupid if I repeat this19:06
Veggenpusling: I'd just make a new script run late in init script that tests for the existence of the binary and runs it if it's there?19:06
dtahtbotqwerty12: Error: "i" is not a valid command.19:06
qwerty12I got beat by a bot :(19:07
Veggenthat is, after all other init scripts.19:07
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Veggeninstead of modifying those delivered by OS.19:07
puslingVeggen: I have tried placing it as S9819:08
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Veggendoesn't work?19:08
puslingVeggen: nope. and if I run mount beore trying to start my app, I get that it isn't mounted - and trying to mount it results in mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc1 failed19:09
ItalodanceMythTv can be a tv tuner ?19:10
qwerty12No.19:11
Italodanceok19:11
qwerty12It can connect to a computer running mythtv though.19:11
Veggenpusling: hmm. timing issues? try sleeping a while?19:11
qwerty12Italodance: Do you have DVB-H in Iran?19:11
Italodanceqwerty12 DVB-H?19:12
Veggenuh? sure it can. or it can use a tv card.19:12
Italodanceqwerty12 yes19:12
puslingVeggen: I try at both S31 and at S98 - and both fails :/19:12
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Veggenpusling: try at S98 and sleep 60 before trying?19:13
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Veggenjust for test.19:13
qwerty12IF you ever get good DVB-H in Iran, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17704 . It's not fully working afaik and I've never tried it so don't ask me for help.19:13
Italodanceqwerty12 ummm let's try19:14
puslingVeggen: trying .. the only interesting thing run after is the metalayer-crawler (which I have no clue what is - maybe it isn't that interesting after all ...)19:15
Italodancebut that's hard http://dvbh.kilu.de/19:16
qwerty12So don't do it then. It only works if you have a hardware dongle & good DVB-H services19:16
puslingis there any way to get "normal" debian style boot output on the screen while booting instead of fancy nokia loko ?19:18
Italodanceqwerty12 exactly it seems to be a dangerous way19:18
puslingqwerty12: why do your nick match my password ?19:18
qwerty12pusling: I dunno :P19:18
qwerty12I don't know how long you have been here but I've never seen you before and I've been on here a bit frequently recently :p19:19
qwerty12pusling: For kernel, Nope, it requires framebuffer support in kernel and some other odd stuff. The framebuffer driver seems to be broken in Kernel, after modifiying the frame buffer c file, I finally get it to compile. I flash it to my N800, only to find it turns off19:20
qwerty12Install sysklogd instead and see syslog after boot up.19:20
puslingVeggen: sleeping 60 actually gives me what I want. - but it kind of slows the boot process ;)19:21
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Italodancehttp://behindmaemolines.blogspot.com/2008/01/os2008-repositories.html   NICE POST :D19:24
morbecwhat kind of information is saved on E_CONTACT_SIP?19:24
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JaffaItalodance: You've seen http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ I presume?19:25
ItalodanceJaffa yes before  ..why?19:26
qwerty12Because Gronmayer has all of them.19:27
qwerty12With easy installation.19:27
ItalodanceJaffa qwerty12 yes friends but i am installing offline these now .....till wlan19:27
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* Jaffa has severely limited the number of repos he's installed since his last flash. It's just not worth the pain. If an app author wants users, (s)he should put it in extras(-devel)19:32
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prografhi to everybody19:33
Italodancehi prograf19:33
qwerty12Hello19:33
prografI'm new user on 770 and have some troubles... I see this IRC channel on maemo.org and decide to join... :-D19:34
Italodancewelcome here19:34
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prografI have a little/big question... I'm Macintosh user too... and I like to synchronize contacts between Mac->700, is this possible?19:35
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snake_mountainprofraf:  sadly, no19:36
prografdamm19:36
GeneralAntillesvcards work, prograf.19:36
GeneralAntillesJust export from Address Book19:37
GeneralAntillescopy it over19:37
GeneralAntillesand import into Contacts on the 770.19:37
prografI see, I try to export vcards on address book but Contacts on 770 don't have register to phone or address, is this correct?19:38
GeneralAntillesInstalling gpe-contacts is also an option.19:39
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prografok. an need import contact to contact or I can impor all vCard at one time?19:39
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GeneralAntillesIt'll import as a batch if you export as a batch19:41
GeneralAntilles(i.e. export to a single file)19:41
qwerty12Is there a way to make a deb file without dh_make. That shit is pissing me off. I don't need any scripts to run, I've made a directory structure 8-)19:41
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Jaffaqwerty12: see PyPackager and Theme Maker. They both make debs without using the debian tools19:43
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prografok, then in Address Book on Macintosh export to an unique file called (by example) vCard, and then in GPE-Contacts impor all contact from this unique file, if I understand correctly?19:44
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qwerty12Jaffa: Thanks, I think PyPackager will work, I just can't be bothered with all the typing :( but I guess I am being picky. I don't know if I would be able to adapt Theme Maker for my purpose, unless I "rip" the finished deb and replace files. But I believe the file is md5summed.19:45
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webustanyprograf: there was a time when evolution-data-server crashed on multi contacts vcards...19:45
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webustanyprograf: maybe it's been fixed now19:45
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webustanyoh wait, it was with contacts19:45
webustanynot gpe-contacts19:46
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KaaLiwhat do i need if i want to use my phone with n810...   including messages and contacts..   over BT19:49
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inzKaaLi, you need to write an application that does that19:50
webustany:p19:50
inzKaaLi, or use gammu/gnokii from command line19:50
webustanyisn't there wammu for n810 ?19:50
KaaLisounds nice19:50
snake_mountainHello.  Anyone have sqlite3 running on N770?19:51
webustanyI'm trying to connect an EAP-TLS network, I imported the certificate but it doesn't show in the certificates control panel19:51
webustanywhen I try to import it again, it says "already imported"19:51
Veggenpusling: from your startup-script, launch another script in the background that for 10 repetitions or so tries to find the binary and launch, but sleep 5 seconds and tries again upon failure.19:52
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Veggena little ugly, but it should work.19:53
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: if you get a chance, could you do some testing of v2.18 of tablet-encode? https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/tablet-encode/?root=mediautils - changelog in: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/tablet-encode/README.txt?root=mediautils&rev=67&view=markup20:00
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GeneralAntillesWill do. Probably sometime tonight or tomorrow morning (EDT).20:01
JaffaGeneralAntilles: ...and if you see rm_you this evening (and I don't), can you poke him to do similar?20:04
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* Jaffa thinks --epsiodes is going to be quite handy for his trip to San Francisco (11 hr flight :-/)20:04
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qwerty12Wow, San Francisco that far from UK? Or is it timezone difference? Don't hate me, I've never been out of the UK :(20:06
GeneralAntilles7 hour timezone difference.20:06
JaffaFlight there: we land 3 hours after taking off. Flight back: we land 19 hours after taking off :-(20:06
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: 8, actually.20:06
GeneralAntillesDST20:06
JaffaIn both countries :-)20:06
derfJaffa: Tokyo -> DC I landed 2 hours before I took off.20:07
Jaffaderf: cool :)20:07
KaaLiwas a funny bit in jack ass movie...   they were near japan where day changes..    it was friday...   and an hour later it was thursday again..20:08
qwerty12I love jackass, I've seen 1 & 2 uncensored. I have yet to watch 2.5 & 3 when it comes out :p20:08
KaaLi2.5?20:09
qwerty12Yeah, some movie they released before 3.20:09
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qwerty12http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackass:_Number_Two#Jackass_2.520:10
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prografok I try with GPE-Contact but not import an unique file... and I've more than 700 contact in my address book...20:15
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prograf:-(20:18
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Italodancesomeone has hildon-libs0 (>= 0.12.22-1),  ?20:19
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EruditeHermitis there a simple way to get screen rotation working?20:33
wom-what do you mean by simple?20:34
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EruditeHermithow hard is it?20:34
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EruditeHermitdo I need to do a kernel recompile?20:34
wom-no20:35
wom-http://sse2.net/rotate/20:35
wom-there are quite nice instructions20:35
wom-and kernel you need20:35
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_massi_hello! does anybody know where the maps application saves its maps, and if it's possible to (eventually) move them somewhere else, maybe using a symlink?20:37
EruditeHermitwom-: is it stable?20:38
_massi_my root partition is almost full, and I guess those maps take most of the space...20:38
kulve_massi_: the maps are in the internal flash in n810, no in the root fs20:39
kulvei.e. internal mmc20:39
_massi_kulve: I have an n80020:39
kulvewell, same thing. They are in the internal mmc by default, afaik20:39
_massi_are they in the internal slot?20:39
kulveyup20:39
_massi_ah,ok, thanks20:40
derf_massi_: There's a config option that specifies the path to the map database.20:40
_massi_derf: I cannot find it...20:40
derfWell, one for each map repository, I believe.20:40
wom-EruditeHermit: pretty good20:40
derfUnder "manage repositories" or some such.20:40
derfCopy the .db's, change the config, delete the original .db's.20:41
EruditeHermitwom-: will give it a try thanks20:42
_massi_derf: I'm speaking of "maps", not maemo mapper... I cannot find that option in maps20:42
derf_massi_: Oh. I misunderstood.20:42
derfI've never actually used "maps".20:42
_massi_anyway, I found the map directory in my internal sd20:42
_massi_derf: well, it's maps are good (I live in Italy), but it does not keep track of your route (no "trail" in the display), so maemo mapper is still a better experience20:44
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_massi_derf: on the other hand, with maps I can look up addresses without having a net connection...20:44
_massi_derf: I'm speaking if the free "version" of maps20:45
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derfThe fs they shipped on my internal memory card was corrupt, so I had to reformat and lots the maps it shipped with, and I've never bothered to re-download them.20:46
kulvederf: how did you reformat it? On my device the format option is dimmed.. Maybe because I'm using swap there..?20:47
derfkulve: Over USB.20:47
derfYeah, I disabled swap first.20:47
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kulveok20:48
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stullihello21:15
webustanyhi21:16
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stullihas someone here managed to put cwiid to use?21:25
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* lcuk wonders how ppl function on only a couple of hours sleep21:29
wom-generally they dont :)21:29
lcukthat would be why i feel as crap as i do21:30
wom-you should go to sleep21:30
wom-sleeping is the best thing ever21:30
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lcukgoin to asa missus gets back from shops21:31
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wom-asa, shop in uk?21:33
lcukas soon as21:33
wom-aaah :)21:33
wom-maybe i should get some sleep21:33
webustanyis maemo-launcher supposed to use 50% of my RAM ?21:33
webustany 6816 user     SW     54808  6063  0.9 43.1 maemo-launcher21:34
webustany(top output)21:34
lcukis that sustained or just whilst its munching a file21:34
webustanysustained21:34
webustanyI've mediabox running21:34
webustanyplaying a m4a21:34
webustanyno other apps21:34
lcukdoesnt sound right21:35
webustanygnome vfs daemons also eats 40%21:35
webustanyI tried to kill it once, it rebooted the box :p21:35
lcukso you have about 1kb of memory21:35
lcukhave you added symlinks21:35
webustanyhuh ? symlinks ?21:36
webustanyI have a virtual memory of 128m21:36
lcukif you dont know about symlinks chances are you havent added any :)21:36
webustanyI know what a symlink is21:36
lcuki cant even turn mine on battery flat21:36
webustanybut don't know why I'd have added some...21:36
lcukif you add a link to / from your home you can access it from the explorer thingy21:37
webustanyI see, I use the terminal :)21:38
webustanyor store my docs in the standard place21:38
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lcuk 1137 user     SW<    31480  1057  4.1 24.7 maemo-launcher21:41
skiburis this right????  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=15022934641221:41
webustanyhmmm21:41
skiburo_O21:41
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lcukwell black is available21:43
lcukhttp://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=eee+black&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi21:43
skiburbut for .99?21:43
lcukwhy not? its a starting bid21:44
skibur+ shipping 19.9921:44
dtahtbotskibur: Error: "shipping" is not a valid command.21:44
skiburplus shipping21:44
skibur$19.9921:44
lcukyer, its got 8 days to go - lots of auctions start that price then work their way to usual ebay selling price21:45
lcukyou not used to ebay?21:45
skiburthis comp cost $30021:45
lcukand?21:45
koyotelower starting bids and realisticshipping gnerally == more profit21:45
skiburo ok, I'm not a E-bay User21:45
koyoteone of the core rules of ebay selling, especially for technology items21:46
skiburI see21:46
koyotei have suggestions if you want an eee21:46
skiburok21:47
lcukbest suggestion is: buy from a reputable shop.  they are cheap enough the warranty is worth it :)21:47
koyoteas of a week ago when i last checked, the 4g surf in BLACK had the ram access door for easy ram upgrades21:47
koyotethe white requires a full disassembly.21:47
prografbye tomorrow I'm back and try another things21:47
koyoteno webcam, but whoopdedo. $329 instead of $39921:47
skiburhum...21:48
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koyoteupgrade to 2GB ram, put in a 8GB sdhc card, and you are still right at $40021:48
koyotewe have 2.21:48
lcukwish they would hurry up and put touch in there - even though the form factor doesnt quite ssuit it21:49
skiburwithout a cam21:49
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koyoteshrug. the touchscreen isn't that big a loss (used to have a lifebook that did have it)21:55
koyoteit's a HUGE machine.21:55
koyotecompared to a n80021:56
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m-cSo, for the last couple weeks, I was like - yeah, the N800 is liquid awesome, but I can't plug my USB devices into it, so it's not everything I need.  BUT...21:57
m-cI found this today.  I am not very familiar with Bluetooth, do you think it would allow the N800 to connect with any kind of USB device, like memory sticks?  http://usb.brando.com.hk/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00142&dept_id=015&cat_id=03621:58
m-cwish it was BT 2.021:58
skibur:)22:00
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m-cFurthermore, how many devices can the BT 2.0 in the N800 connect with at once?  Anyone tried more than one pairing?22:00
skiburany nice hacks for N800/N810?22:00
m-cskibur: endless number of nice hacks22:00
koyotem-c: hrm.22:01
koyotewhy not a powered usb hub?22:01
m-ckoyote: and connect via the N800 USB port?22:01
skiburI only have KDE on mine.  Thats about it.22:01
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koyotem-c: you need usb hacks, but i think it'll work. look at the forums22:03
m-cI'd rather not do the USB hacks, but, yeah, I know what you mean.  I'd like to start moving toward all BT and WiFi connections.22:03
m-cI want to start getting into embedded computing.22:04
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koyotethen working usb host is important for a whole slew of reasons22:04
m-cGoing to try and cut the tether of computing22:04
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m-cWhat do you think about multiple BT devices?22:06
koyotebandwidth limits22:06
m-cyeah - but have you gotten multiple devices to work on the N8x0 ?22:06
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m-cUSB isn't exactly screaming fast bandwidth either...22:07
m-cYou can get 2.1 Mbit/s on the BT in the N8x022:08
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koyotebut why should i HAVE to use bt instead of usb to connect my external drive?22:09
m-cHmm - I just looked up USB 2.0 -- 480 Mbit/s22:09
glassusb is pretty wide22:09
glassbut the parts probably arent that fast22:09
glassa lot slower..22:09
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m-cThat's for "Hi-Speed"... not sure that's supported.  Full-Speed is 12 Mbit/s22:10
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m-ckoyote: Will hacking the kernel for host-USB-mode screw anything else up?22:10
koyotedunno, haven't done it yet nor read all the threads22:10
m-cI'm always reluctant to bring the device too far from the defaults, since I use it so much.22:10
m-cWell, then, in answer to your question, why you would use BT over USB, is because you can do it without mucking around with the kernel.22:11
koyotewell, clone it over to an sd card and run a testing environment22:11
glassm-c: also, less wires is sometimes useful22:12
koyoteof course22:12
koyotebut this XOR thing is weird to me22:12
koyoteboth is better.22:12
m-cI'm halfway considering buying a second N800 just for a sandbox.22:12
koyotejust clone22:12
koyotethen you have dual boot22:12
m-cNo one has tried multiple BT devices at the same time?  Surprised.22:13
KotCzarnymaybe no one has multiple bt devices22:13
KotCzarny:)22:13
m-cI figured many people would have a headphone and a keyboard, at least.22:14
koyotei am sure someone has run a bt-phone data connection and bt keyboard at the same time22:15
koyotebut your sampling universe is less than 2 dozen people on irc22:15
koyotethe forums. use the forums. search a bit22:15
MangoFusioni could send files as well as use a bt keyboard once i recall22:16
m-cokay, thanks - that helps a lot.  Now I know the N8x0 is capable of BT host mode.22:17
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Cptnodegardive had the bt igo connected, cellphone connected for internet, and at the same time sending a file from the same cell22:20
m-cnice - thanks Cptnodegard22:21
Cptnodegardbut the KB laggs if you have BT DUN on and type too fast22:21
KotCzarnykb lags even without22:21
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Cptnodegardit eeeennnndssss uuuppp liikke ttthhisss22:21
KotCzarnyprobably some power saving22:21
Cptnodegardliterally22:21
KotCzarnymy n-gage worked perfectly22:21
KotCzarnyno lag at all22:21
Cptnodegardlagg as in letters being triple, not lagg as in slow22:22
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KotCzarnyi experienced lag similiar to ssh with max wifi powersaving22:22
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KotCzarnyif it's not used for a few seconds it goes to sleep or something (n800)22:23
elbI've never noticed that being a problem for ssh22:23
* Jaffa belatedly confirms yes, you can run two BT devices (e.g. phone for network connection and keyboard) at the same time. Also, OS2008 doesn't need a powered hub or other form of hack to use USB devices such as memory sticks. If you can get a physical connection (e.g. USB female-A to female-A gender changer) it's fully supported.22:23
m-cI sure have - frustrating to the point of now wanting to use it22:23
Cptnodegardthats annoying indeed.... if you dont realize, and type along, it can end up closing apps and removing desktop apps (from view)22:23
Cptnodegardhappened to me twice22:23
m-cJaffa: nice!!!!  thanks!!22:24
elbI mean, specifically, ssh'ing into an n810 on the local network22:24
Cptnodegardmost flash drives anyways22:24
Cptnodegard100 or 100mah limit22:24
Cptnodegard200*22:24
koyoteJaffa: ?22:24
m-celb - yes, ssh over wifi and the typing would stall out every couple seconds22:24
koyotei could use a usb keyboard without any mucking around?22:24
elbyeah, I've never noticed that22:25
m-celb - using OS200722:25
elbwhich isn't to say it doesn't happen, I don't ssh to it very often22:25
elbI normally leave it in offline mode to conserve power, in fact22:25
koyotei want my wifi ON when it's on and OFF when it's off. very simple, really22:26
KotCzarnykoyote: yes22:26
Cptnodegardi leave it online, doesnt use much22:27
KotCzarnycpt: wrong22:27
KotCzarnyit's like a 2x times difference22:27
Cptnodegardoh noes22:27
KotCzarnywifi on/off22:27
Cptnodegardsomeone call the army22:27
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Cptnodegard:)22:27
elb1/2 the usable time would be annoying for me22:28
Cptnodegardwhat i meant is, i dont mind charging it every day, i use it so much i have to do that anyways, so the online mode dont make any differece22:28
elb1/2 the usable sleep time wouldn't be a big deal, I don't know how it would impact actual use22:28
KotCzarnybut if you browse actively it's still down to 3h anyway22:28
KotCzarnyso not a big deal22:28
KotCzarny:)22:28
elbexcept for the fact that the batteries are so damn expensive22:28
elbI do a lot of document viewing, for which I get many hours of useful life22:29
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elbI'm not sure how many ... but at least 7 or 822:29
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m-cJust got a BT headset working to make a VoIP call over WiFi.  Worked very well.22:52
KotCzarnyn8x0 ftw!22:53
ivymornin22:54
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m-cKotCzarny: seriously.  I think it'll replace my cell phone and maybe even my desktop in the next year22:54
KotCzarny:)22:55
KotCzarnyi could use external battery pack22:56
elbI can't see any such device ever replacing a cell phone22:56
KotCzarnythat will attach to the back22:56
m-cKotCzarny: it's called an extension cord22:56
KotCzarnym-c: that's a wired solution22:56
m-cwell, how about this...22:57
KotCzarnyhttp://www.sourcingmap.com/external-lithium-ion-battery-pack-for-psp-3200-mah-500-p-1436.html?campaign=100222:57
m-cI used to lug a laptop around with me when I traveled for work.  I always had a second battery charged up in my bag for long plane trips22:58
KotCzarny3.2Ah is ~2.5 times of the internal one22:58
m-cyou think maybe you could swap out batteries?22:58
KotCzarnyit has usb connector22:58
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KotCzarnyso simply getting usb--nokia plug will be enough22:59
KotCzarnyswapping batteries sucks22:59
KotCzarnyyou have to reboot the device22:59
m-cit doesn't suck as much as carrying around a huge Ion Battery Pack22:59
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KotCzarnyit's not that huge22:59
m-cWhat do you care about reboots... it's a solid state device22:59
KotCzarnyi believe it's ~ size of n8x022:59
KotCzarnybut you loose your workstate23:00
elbalso, the n8x0 battery costs more than that battery, which stores more than twice as much power23:00
elbbecause Nokia, like all other small device companies, worships this stupidass battery conspiracy23:00
elband, solid state or not, you lose state when you reboot, and state is valuable23:01
m-cyou think charging through the USB port is safe?23:01
KotCzarnyno23:01
KotCzarnyyou misunderstood me23:01
elbyou should try paying a little bit of attention23:01
KotCzarnyit has usb plug23:01
m-cooohhh!23:01
KotCzarnyso get usb--nokia charging plug23:01
KotCzarnyand you're set23:01
KotCzarnyusb plug --- nokia 2mm plug23:01
elbwhich is also stupid23:02
KotCzarnyyup23:02
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KotCzarnybut still doable23:02
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elbwhy the F would a company change a perfectly good power plug used by gajillions of devices23:02
KotCzarnybecause no electronics are needed23:02
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m-cKotCzarny: and you think this is better than carrying around and using the plug?23:02
KotCzarnyyes23:02
elbpower supply for portable devices is a totally ridiculous situation23:02
JsnDoes anyone know how to turn off the "pop checking email" notification in claws mail?  I tried to turn it off in the preferences but it will not go off23:03
elbm-c: carrying around the plug is only reasonable if you can camp by outlets23:03
KotCzarnybecause for example on the plane you don't have access to ac/dc power23:03
KotCzarnyunless you travel first class23:03
KotCzarnybut then you have enough money for anything23:03
KotCzarny:)23:03
elband heaven forbid you're European23:03
elbwhere the power plug is larger than the battery pack he's looking at ;-)23:03
m-celb: Camping outlets is standard for laptop users23:03
KotCzarnyelb: not necessarily23:03
KotCzarny:)23:03
elbm-c: that doesn't make it non-stupid23:03
KotCzarnythere are also ones similiar to us lite plug23:04
elbthe fact that one particular technology has unfortunate limitations does not mean we should strive to impose those limitations on all other technologies23:04
elbKotCzarny: yeah, the "shaver" plugs or whatever23:04
KotCzarny:)23:04
* Jaffa fancies a small adapter, which is MicroUSB on one end and Nokia 2mm power on the other (possibly also replicating the USB port). Then I can have it as a small dongle in my gadget bag.23:04
koyoteman, i used to have usb cable adaptor stuff23:05
koyoteand i cannot find it23:05
KotCzarny21st century dongle man23:05
* KotCzarny rocks23:05
KotCzarnyhmm, that psp battery pack could use some velcro23:06
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m-cI like to tell the story, "What's the biggest part of the computer?"  People always say, "The monitor."  Of course, the answer is "The power supply."  We just hide most of that infrastructure, but we need a power generation station, transmission wires, and transformers, just to make the computer work.23:07
koyotei have an external pack, it's pretty cool.23:07
KotCzarnym-c: not true23:07
KotCzarnyget a solar panel23:07
KotCzarnyor a crank23:07
KotCzarny;)23:07
m-cnot for a desktop23:07
KotCzarnywhy not?23:07
koyotei need an adaptor to make it work with the n800, though23:07
KotCzarnythere a re low power pcs too23:07
m-cyou can't crank 450 W23:07
koyote1: you can charge batteries. nothing in the pc actually runs off of ac23:08
KotCzarnym-c: not true23:08
elbit's ridiculous that desktops even draw 450W23:08
koyote2: you can buy 12dc power supplies for your desktop case23:08
elb(in the main, they don't, of course)23:08
KotCzarnydc power ftw!23:08
koyote3: VERY VERY few times will you actually draw 450 watts23:09
koyoteKotCzarny: dc is more efficient in this case as a battery system is going to work without inverters, right?23:09
KotCzarnykoyote: unless you are pc gamer with 3x nvidia23:09
KotCzarny;)23:09
KotCzarnykoyota: which case?23:09
koyoteif you need a 3x nividia stay on the grid23:09
KotCzarnyyou simply get voltage regulator23:10
koyoteKotCzarny: any standard case23:10
KotCzarnyand provide enough amps23:10
koyoteno, KotCzarny- you need the ps to do the 12, 5v, neg 5v, etc23:10
KotCzarnynop23:10
KotCzarnythat's what voltage regulators are23:10
KotCzarny12V -> anything23:10
MangoFusionman, i wish i still had my acorn23:11
KotCzarnymango: autumn will be there soon23:11
KotCzarny;)23:11
koyotehttp://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/.f23:11
KotCzarnykoyote: yes, and it's based on voltage regulators23:12
KotCzarny:)23:12
koyoteplural.23:12
KotCzarnymay be single23:12
KotCzarnyif has multiple outputs23:12
elblord hopes it wouldn't be voltage regulators23:12
koyotea voltage regulator is not enough. there's a lot more going on to give the necessary voltage and clean power23:12
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elbthere are possibly worse ways to trim down battery power, but I wouldn't know what23:12
koyotebut you know more than i do, i just build power supplies for ham radios23:13
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koyoteelb: measured voltage loss in line length!23:13
KotCzarnyelb: v-r are in every device anyway23:13
elbvoltage regulators are *not* doing the 12v-5v conversion23:13
KotCzarnyi may be naming it wrong23:14
elb... because a voltage regulator essentially burns off the voltage difference as wasted power23:14
koyoteaw, come on. one component VR to do noisy car powred +2vdc to -5vdc?23:14
koyotehehehehehehe23:14
KotCzarnyelb: not really23:14
elbyes, really23:14
KotCzarnythere are efficient ones23:14
KotCzarnywith >90% efficiency23:15
koyoteKotCzarny: you may be looking for words like transformer23:15
elbseriously, that's the *definition* of "voltage regulator"23:15
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elbyou're talking about something different, if you're talking about 90% efficiency23:15
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KotCzarnyelb: lm2576 etc?23:15
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elbvoltage regulators are a good choice for turning something that's *about* 5v into something which *is* 5v23:15
elbbut for large power reduction, they're very wasteful23:15
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koyoteand cleaning up the power.23:16
elbI suspect this is just a terminology problem23:16
elbvoltage regulator means something rather specific23:16
* KotCzarny is esl speaker23:16
elbthe lm2576 is a switching power supply23:16
KotCzarny:)23:16
KotCzarnyLM2576/LM2576HV Series SIMPLE SWITCHER 3A Step-Down Voltage Regulat23:17
KotCzarnyor23:17
elba "voltage regulator" is basically just a transistor23:17
KotCzarnywhat i meant there are single chips that do 24V -> 3-30V conversion23:17
KotCzarnywith >90% efficiency23:18
elbwell, not >90%, but yeah23:18
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KotCzarnyyes, >90%23:18
elbI mean, there may be very specific circumstances where you can get >90%23:18
KotCzarnybut those are more expensive ones23:18
KotCzarny:)23:19
elbpower conversion is generally not a pretty picture23:19
KotCzarnyand efficiency is related to specific cases i agree23:19
KotCzarnybut still, ac-dc power supplies are more wastefull23:19
elbabsolutely23:20
elbwell, again, there's more to it than that, but generally speaking, yeah23:20
elbthat depends on things like how good you need your DC to be ;-)23:20
KotCzarnygood.23:20
KotCzarny;)23:20
qwerty12_N800i have a quick q, if you have modules for something but you didn't choose to enable them in the kernel ; can you stilll insmod th23:20
KotCzarnythey're not that expensive23:20
KotCzarnyi mean chips23:20
elb(for non-computing purposes, simple rectified AC is sometimes good enough)23:20
qwerty12_N800insmod the modules fine?23:20
KotCzarnyqwerty: yes23:20
KotCzarnyas long they have compatible magic23:21
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qwerty12_N800ok thanks :), i wasn't sure23:21
KotCzarnywhich may be kernel version, gcc used, compilation options23:21
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KotCzarnybbl23:24
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WorkingOnWiseIs the N800 true stereo output, or mono from 2 speakers23:26
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||cwat that distance, does it matter?23:28
||cwthe headphones are true stereo23:28
WorkingOnWiseit does matter if I can find a way to broadcast it's output to the internet23:30
||cwwouldn23:31
||cwer23:31
||cwwouldn't that depend on headphone+line in or using something else to redirect the sound?  or are you thinking 2 little mic's?23:32
WorkingOnWiseI am hoping for something like cat /dev/audio-out-device | /dev/audio-in-device23:33
WorkingOnWisebut I dont know enough to know if my attempts would fail or just not strung together right23:33
||cwthat wouldn't work, since out is out, not input.23:37
koyoteokay, can anyone confirm a usb keyboard working on os2008 on an n800?23:38
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koyotebefore i get out the soldering iron23:38
||cwyou need to tap into the stream in the API, assumin the app in question is usig one that can be tapped into23:38
Veggenhmm. i need an alt-key. anyone knows what it maps to?23:43
Veggen(i.e. can catch it with xev?)23:43
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elbthat will depend on your keymap23:44
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elbbut what do you mean by you "need an alt-key"?23:44
elbyou need to generate an alt keystroke?23:44
elbfor terminals, ESC will probably suffice23:45
Blafasel'Sounds' like he wants to catch it in his application23:45
elbfor non-termanals, use xmodmap to find out what's bound to Mod1, and use one of those23:45
elbto catch it, catch Mod123:45
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Veggenelb: I need to map me an alt on the n810 keyboard :)23:46
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elbyeah, just bind a key to one of the keysyms listed under Mod1 in xmodmap23:47
elbyou can do that using xmodmap (which is kind of a hack), or you can create an appropriate xkb map23:47
fysaWorkingOnWise, you would need to get esd working.23:48
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webustanyVeggen: you want to port emacs on the n81023:48
webustany?23:48
Veggenelb: I'm already doing xkb-stuff.23:48
fysahttp://www.advogato.org/person/pycage/diary.html?start=5823:49
Veggenwebustany: nope. but already done, I believe?23:49
fysathey have an example of going in reverse -- i.e., use N800 as speakers for a desktop computer23:49
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webustanyVeggen: I was kidding... But, really ? I wonder how usable it is23:49
fysato go the other way, you would have to get alsa-esd on the N800 to work I think23:50
elbthe last one I tried was ... not very23:50
fysakoyote, from what I hear, you just plug it in and it comes up.23:50
fysakoyote, and why a soldering iron?  you can buy the adapter cable for $4.95 here..23:50
m-cI wonder if the FM tuner in the N800 could be used to tune television VHF signals23:51
Veggenelb: but what's the usual keysym for alt?23:51
m-chmm - audio or even video23:51
elbAlt_L/Alt_R23:51
Veggenah. hmm, ok. lemme try that.23:52
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elbhowever, you almost certainly don't actually want alt, but Mod_123:52
elbfor which you have to consult xmodmap23:53
koyotefysa: i can't find one locally23:53
koyoteso why not take a spare keyboard and make a cable the length i want?23:53
koyotei have plenty of both23:53
fysabummer.  true enough.23:53
fysaI heard that Publix carries it.23:54
koyotem-c: yes. the lower band, to 76mhz23:54
m-coooh -- neat!23:54
koyotean if i ever find that targus frolding usb keyboard i used to have.....23:54
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m-cdo you have any BT keyboard recommendations?23:55
fysaApple Wireless..  bought one for the N800 and liked it enough that I replaced the IBM M-type on my desktop.23:56
m-cI was reading on wikipedia on the topic of BT... interesting to see where the logo came from23:56
m-cthanks fysa23:56
koyotethe berkano rune?23:56
fysadoesn't fold though23:56
fysabut it's tiny and you can find a nice carrying case that fits the keyboard and device23:56
m-cI was looking on the web at the leapfrog keyboard - neat - it's used by one hand23:57
m-cbut it said it required MS or Apple, so I didn't know if it would work here23:58
elbit may (foolishly) not produce standard HID keystrokes23:58
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